Dating Dialogue

What Would You Do If…

Moderated by Jennifer Mann, LCSW of The Navidaters

Dear Navidaters,

I’m dating a guy I feel lucky to have in my life – he is sweet, kind, gentle, and I know he will be an amazing husband based on how he treats all the people in his life.

I’ve just noticed when things go wrong in his life, he just can’t get himself together. When he gets in these moods (around once every two weeks), he’ll stay in bed until noon, cancel our date, and go “off the grid” for a few hours. He always apologizes and makes it up to me – but I wonder how he will handle stress in his life when he’s married. Should this be a factor I take into account when I make my decision to marry him? He tells me how much I’ve helped him and brought him so much happiness, so I guess I complement him well. But should I be looking for someone who’s more on his game all the time? Or is this normal?

Thank you! -Leah*

Disclaimer: This column is not intended to diagnose or otherwise conclude resolutions to any questions. Our intention is not to offer any definitive conclusions to any particular question, rather offer areas of exploration for the author and reader. Due to the nature of the column receiving only a short snapshot of an issue, without the benefit of an actual discussion, the panel’s role is to offer a range of possibilities. We hope to open up meaningful dialogue and individual exploration.

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The Panel

The Rebbetzin

Rebbetzin Faigie Horowitz, M.S.

Leah, this is not normal, and you know it. The frequency of his episodes is very troubling, and the red flags are there. He uses language that indicates that he has a problem. He seems to have some kind of depression or mental health problem that he is not addressing successfully.

It is his problem, and you cannot put yourself into the role of fixer in a marriage. He should own up to his emotional issues and you should count yourself lucky that you noticed the pattern.

Don’t stop here. Go into therapy to address why you would even doubt yourself. Why would you would settle to be the reassurer and fixer of someone with serious mental health issues? B’hatzlacha.

The Shadchan

Michelle Mond

There was one teacher in my seminary (shout-out to Sharfmans! #BestSemEver) who made such a vivid comparison when describing unhealthy relationships that I will never forget it.

She described healthy human relationships to two individuals on a boat sailing in a vast sea. There is a lot of teamwork and trust that must be present on that boat to ride the waves of the ocean. There must be lots of coordination between the two people rowing together to get to their destination. This is why, she explained, it is crucial for the two on the boat to be healthy, full, present, and good team players.

Then she went on to compare our relationships with unhealthy people in the following way. Imagine you are at the dock, and this person is sailing away on a boat with a hole on the bottom. You jump in because you care and feel bad leaving this person you care about to sail away alone. As the boat sails away, you spend countless hours of time, energy, and effort trying to fill the boat’s hole, let out the incoming water, etc. but throughout, it is not just a bumpy ride – it’s a dysfunctional one. The boat inevitably sinks.

Now for the main question: did you do a service to the other person by jumping in to ride the waves together? Yes, you helped this person. Yes, you showed you cared. Yes, you did not leave this person all alone. But you got yourself sucked into a dysfunctional reality. It is not good for either of you to be on that boat.

When you are in a relationship like the one you describe, you are the caretaker. You feel cherished, appreciated, and essential, but you are setting up for a situation where you will likely lose yourself completely. You vividly described the guy you are dating as one who is unable to cope with stress. He can’t get out of bed, can’t go to work, and cancels plans. So he apologizes and wants to make it up to you, nice. But what he should really do is work on his mental health so he is in the position where he is able to tackle the ups and downs of life.

I would suggest that you bring up this subject with him. Tell him why his behavioral patterns worry you and explain why you do not feel fully safe in the relationship. I would suggest you take a significant break from this shidduch while he works on himself. Date other people and experience what it is like to be with someone who can “show up” in the face of difficulties. You might find that you actually are very relieved when you’re no longer together. Or he will truly work on himself, and you will build a healthy relationship – only time will tell.

Much hatzlacha!

The Single

Rivka Weinberg

One day when I was in high school, my classmates and I didn’t want to learn so we began asking our teacher various random questions. Although I don’t remember the exact question that was asked, the response we received was, “No, we do not marry a person whom we believe to be a chessed case.” If there was one thing I truly learned from my high school career, it was to make sure the person you marry is someone whom you respect incredibly and are proud to introduce to others. Leah, it is not your job to help him. We do not consciously get married to heal wounds, especially in situations like yours. While he may be a sweet guy who will make an amazing husband, keep in mind that as life goes on, you will inevitably face various challenges together and if this is how he reacts to stress does that make you feel safe? Do you respect him for who he is, and even more so, when he gets into these “moods”?

When dating, it’s important to remember that what you see in front of you – positive and negative qualities alike – is what will follow into your marriage. Do not assume that you will be able to “fix” or “change” anything about the other person, so you need to be able to recognize his flaws and accept him for who he is, or date someone else.

Leah, if you were my sister or friend, I would advise you to run, fast. This guy clearly has issues that he needs to work through before he is healthy and stable enough to be in a relationship. You sound like an incredible girl who looks for positivity in all aspects of life, and you deserve to be with someone who provides for you accordingly. Turn to Hashem for the clarity you need and remember there is a plan for you that is better than any you could have imagined yourself. I’m rooting for you!

You are setting yourself up for a situation where you will likely lose yourself completely.

The Zaidy

Dr. Jeffrey Galler

Wow – if this is how he handles stress now, what will happen when the baby has fever and is screaming, his wife has a splitting headache, the washing machine is leaking, and he’s late for work?

It would be all too simple for an outside observer (like me) to advise ending this relationship because it doesn’t sound like he’s good marriage material. However, it could be a mistake to prematurely give up on what might actually be a very promising and fulfilling relationship.

So, let’s first accept that not everyone is perfect (except my wife). This young man does have a serious

problem. But, it sounds like you have spent considerable time with him, understand him well, and would be comfortable discussing this very sensitive problem with him.

Psychologists report that folks who have been diagnosed with clinical depression often act in the exact manner that you have described. However, this is not an incurable or unmanageable disease. For example, he can be taught coping skills.

Psychologists who are welltrained in Cognitive Behavioral Therapy have success in treating these cases. From the little that I do understand about this field of therapy, psychologists utilize a protocol called “Dialectical Behavioral Therapy.”

If you Google that term, you will discover that:

“Dialectical behavioral therapy (DBT) is a type of cognitive beb havioral therapy. Cognitive behavioral therapy tries to identify and change negative thinking patterns and pushes for positive behavioral changes… It teaches patients skills to cope with, and change, unhealthy behaviors.”

Meanwhile, while you do not necessarily need to immediately end your relationship with him, please proceed with extreme, extreme caution. Take your time. Make sure that he sees Pulling It All Together

The Navidaters

Dating and Relationship Coaches and Therapists

As much as we can love another, we must take care of ourselves first.

a competent therapist and make sure that he is sufficiently “cured” before deciding if he is a suitable life-partner.

Dear Leah,

Thank you for writing into our panel. I cannot encourage you to stay in this relationship or to leave this relationship. It seems to me that if it has not already happened, you and your date have the potential to fall in love. I am sensing a lot of loving feelings and vibes from your e-mail. When love and feelings are involved, there is a serious attachment and investment and it can be very challenging to walk away from someone because he has a “problem.” He is not mean or abusive and his “moods” are not directed at you, rather he may be struggling with depression or possibly something else.

Before you consider walking away, I would suggest going for couples therapy to share your concerns both for him and yourself. It doesn’t sound like your boyfriend has a diagnosis just yet, which leads me to believe he is not seeking treatment. In couples therapy, you will begin to discuss the issue at hand, as well figure out if this is a terrain you can/want to navigate.

Staying together must be contingent on your boyfriend seeking his own personal treatment as well and sticking with a treatment plan. You need to see him making an effort to take care of his mental health. A fairly good indicator of couples “making it” when one has mental health issues is his/her commitment and motivation to treatment. Partners who seek and stick to treatment to keep the other spouse quiet typically do not have much success. Those with mental health struggles who have a high level of self awareness and acknowledge how their struggles impact their significant others have more successful treatment and relationships.

As much as we can love another, we must take care of ourselves first. That is not selfish. It is actually called self-care. Self-care is differr ent for every individual. For some, self-care looks like keeping a journal, taking a walk in a garden, or going to lunch with a friend when a spouse is having an episode; for others, it looks like ending a relationship with someone with mental health struggles. None of us should ever judge each other for our choices.

Should you stay in this relationship, you must understand that you cannot have a wedding in a month or two. You need time to see your boyfriend’s commitment to treatment and to see if he is less moody. With some time, I believe you will have your answer.

Best of luck! Sincerely, Jennifer

PSA: To all those struggling with mental health, please know that you are very, very deeply worthy of love. I know that in the world of shidduchim, you are taught the opposite. You must hide your mental health issues, perhaps not receive treatment because of what “The Goldbergs” may think. When someone has a physical health condition, there is not a parent under the sun who would keep a child away from medical care. The kindest thing that you can do for yourself and your future spouse is to start speaking with a mental health professional.

Jennifer Mann, LCSW is a licensed psychotherapist and certified trauma healing life coach, as well as a dating and relationship coach working with individuals, couples, and families in private practice at 123 Maple Avenue in Cedarhurst, NY. She also teaches a psychology course at Touro College. To set up a consultation or to ask questions, please call 718-908-0512. Visit www.thenavidaters.com for more information. If you would like to submit a dating or relationship question to the panel anonymously, please email JenniferMannLCSW@gmail.com. You can follow The Navidaters on FB and Instagram for dating and relationship advice.