Interview with Lady Justice Davies DBE

The Right Honourable Lady Justice Nicola Davies DBE

As told to Sally Penni MBE

Career of Lady Justice Nicola Davies

1992 -Took Silk

1998 - appointed Recorder

2003 – appointed Deputy High Court

2010 - appointed Justice of the High Court

2018 – appointed Lady Justice of Appeal

LJ Nicola Davies is the first woman from Wales to have held the roles of QC, High Court Judge, Presiding Judge of the Wales Circuit (2013-2017), Lady Justice of Appeal, Treasurer of an Inn of Court.

I attended the Royal Courts of Justice not as an advocate but to interview The Rt Hon Lady Justice Nicola Davies DBE and was greeted with a cup of tea and some rather nice biscuits which have done nothing for my waistline nor marathon training! The room was filled with books and folders as one might expect for a Court of Appeal Judge. Also present were tulips on the table and a sketch of Her Ladyship in her red robes presented to her by the staff of Cardiff Crown Court at the end of her years as a Presiding Judge in Wales and a photograph of three women judges sitting in Swansea as a constitution of the Court of Appeal, Criminal Division, a gift from the court ushers marking the historic moment.

I started by asking what significant changes there have been since LJ Nicola Davies was called to the Bar.

LJ: The significant changes relate to the recognition of the issues which women face, and continue to encounter. These issues include:

- Lack of support for those with caring responsibility, to an extent these have been addressed

- Recognition that caring responsibilities extend beyond those of children

- The fair and transparent allocation of work, the absence can result in a disparity of income as between genders

Some changes:

- the creation on most Circuits of a Women’s Forum. The Temple Women’s Forum was established in 2011, in February 2022 the Inns of Court Alliance was formed, all four Inns joined together to support and encourage women. These were not in existence when I was at the Bar.

I was shocked that when LJ Nicola Davies commenced her career, she was the only woman in chambers for seven years.

LJ: In the chambers where I did my first six months pupillage, my pupil master told me that as chambers had two women tenants they would not take a third. As a result I went to another set of chambers for my second six. I was offered and accepted a tenancy there. On that day, I was told by my then senior clerk that I would not be able to do civil work as solicitors would not be willing to instruct me. I did not have the confidence to challenge that assertion. I thought the way forward would be to do whatever work came my way. In fact, I was able to undertake personal injury work and, thereafter, I built up a practice in medical law.

Were there no women role models?

LJ: No. I was never led by a woman.

Do you see yourself or perceive yourself to be role model?

LJ: I have never seen or perceived myself as such.

LJ: silence

Have you just got on with it?

LJ: Yes, that is what I have done throughout.

I saw on your shelf the photo of you and two other judges sitting as the Court of Appeal in Wales

LJ: The judges are Mrs Justice Jefford, a Presiding Judge of the Circuit in Wales and Mrs Justice Steyn, the Administrative Liaison Judge for Wales.

I can tell you when I shared the article and photo on The Judicial Office website it got hundreds of views and many positive comments from women in law and men too. Did you think a day like this would happen?

LJ: In 2012, the then Recorder of Cardiff, Judge Eleri Rees, spoke to me about the lack of women applying for part-time and full-time appointments within the judiciary. I was then a Senior Diversity Judge. With the support of the Judicial Office, I instigated the first “Women and the Judiciary” event in Cardiff which was open to barristers, solicitors, legal executives and academics. Such was the success of the event that it was repeated on an annual basis in England, culminating in a return to Wales in 2017.

You are now also Treasurer of the Honourable Society of Gray’s Inn for 2023. What is the definition of a Treasurer? What is the role?

LJ: The Treasurer is the senior role within the Inn. As Treasurer I work closely with the Under-Treasurer who is the CEO of the Inn. I see the role of Treasurer as including:

- Supporting the work of the Education Department, meeting and talking with our students

- Calling students and transferring solicitors to the Bar

- Working with the Chair of the Management Committee on issues relating to the governance of the Inn

- Taking part in the events at the Inn and making (many) speeches

- Representing the Inn at external events both nationally and internationally

Gray’s held a Call Night recently. Why is it special?

LJ: To be called to the Bar, and to be able to call yourself a barrister, is recognition of real achievement for any person. It is recognition of years of work and effort, and of sacrifices made by the individual and their family and friends. It is a moving event, taking place as it does in the presence of family and friends. What is particularly special is meeting, not only the newly called barrister, but also their support network.

What are your themes and priorities for your year as Treasurer of Gray’s inn?

LJ: Inclusivity - as an Inn we seek to attract a diverse and talented student membership not least by means of our scholarships and outreach work done by our first-rate education department. As members of the Inn, it is incumbent on us to ensure that our welcome to those who choose to join the Inn feel it is inclusive such that all feel valued and respected as individuals, whatever their personal background, experience or characteristics. Inclusivity is one of my themes.

Women – consistent with my previous activities, another theme for this year is women.

Engagement and Master of Circuits - I am prioritising our engagement with those who live and work outside of London. I am proposing a Bencher whose role it is to engage with the Circuits and their activities on Circuit.

Researching for this interview I noticed the following events with female speakers coming up in Gray’s Inn calendar. The Mulligan Sermon will be given by the Bishop of London, The Rt Revd and Rt Hon Dame Sarah Mullally; The Hon Dame Siobhan Keegan the Chief Justice of Northern Ireland will give the Barnard’s Reading and the Rt Hon Lady Dorian, the Lord Justice Clerk of Scotland will give the Birkenhead Lecture. I wondered if it was a happy coincidence?

LJ: No, they were my invitations. I am delighted that each of these highly distinguished women will be speaking.

LJ Nicola Davies describes students as being the lifeblood of the Inn. The role which Gray’s Inn plays in the education and support of students is central and she will do all she can in her year as Treasurer to promote this endeavour.

Her Ladyship is a strong advocate of the need for equality and diversity within the Bar and the Bench. While a judge of the High Court she was a lead judge for diversity. She is one of the four co-convenors of the Inns of Court Alliance for Women which was launched in Gray’s Inn in February 2022.

Tell me more about the Alliance as I noticed the Lord Chief Justice spoke at one of the Alliance events recently held at Gray’s inn?

LJ: In March 2023 the Alliance held an event to address the issue of judicial bullying. The Lord Chief Justice spoke and he was followed by a panel discussion addressing questions from attendees. The panel comprised: Lady Justice Simler; Natasha Wong KC; Lauri-Anne Power KC; Sam Mercer from the Bar Council, it was chaired by Amanda Pinto KC. The issue of judicial bullying is current and concerning, we do not suggest that the concern is confined to women. The event was well received. The next Alliance event will be held on 27 June 2023, a cross profession garden party to be held at Lincoln’s Inn.

What advice do you have for Career Progression?

1. Believe in yourself.

2. Be prepared to take a risk even though you may fail.

3. Preparation is everything in terms of case work and preparation of applications for appointment.

4. Think ahead and consider the type of work which will better prepare you for such an application. All applications have to be evidence based. Build up a file of evidence that will support your application and show it to another person, a second pair of eyes is useful.

5. If in doubt, seek advice from someone whose professional judgement you trust.

What is next for you?

LJ: Getting through a year when doing two jobs!

With such a heavy job and many additional leadership roles I wondered, how she divides her time between London and Wales where her family still live and what she did for wellness.

LJ: I enjoy travel, art and music. I like to spend time with family and friends.

This year sees a time of change including a change of Monarch from Elizabeth R to King Charles III, the Senior Honorary Bencher of Gray’s Inn. In my capacity as an elected governing Bencher at Gray’s Inn, I am delighted we have a woman at the helm as Treasurer with much energy and experience in conducting the Inn’s affairs.

Lady Hale said there are many other women role models after her, and I think we may well have found one in Lady Justice Nicola Davies! ■

By Sally Penni MBE

Sally Penni MBE is Barrister at Kenworthy’s chambers and 4 Bream Buildings.

She is the founder of Women in the Law UK an Author and Podcast Host of the Talking Law Podcast. Sally is on the Editorial Board of Legal Women Magazine. She sits in VTE Tribunal. She is an elected governing Bencher of Grays innTwitter @SallyPenni1