Federation of European Bar Associations

International

Federation of European Bar Associations

We continue looking at how the leadership of the Federation of Bar Associations (FBE) has transformed since 2017 when the first female President was elected. Below we hear from the current President, Dominique Attias, a prominent avocate at the Parisian Bar and previously Vice-Bâtonnat, and Professor Sara Chandler QC (Hon), the first female to be elected to the role.

Dominique Attias

Dominique Attias - Présidente de la Fédération des Barreaux d’Europe

What have been the highlights of your career to date?

The first highlight of my career was when I discovered juvenile justice. I was originally a business lawyer but I chose to return to university at the same time as working, in order to pass a diploma reserved for professional practice with migrant families.

Second, as part of my mandate as Council Member of the Order of the Paris Bar, I investigated the issue of access to law and the fundamental place of the lawyer in representing the most vulnerable, as well as the issues of societal responsibility.

Third, as part of my Vice-Bâtonnat at the Paris Bar, it was all the work I did internationally, in particular with Africa.

My last highlight was the reaction of the lawyers when I presented the list of “Women and Law” to the National Bar Council, which was composed only of women, and the violent reactions of my colleagues. This list, made up of 12 women, of all ages and exercising all activities, has even been called “the bra list”. This reaction reinforced my commitment to defend the rights of women and my female colleagues.

How has the position of women in decision-making roles in the legal profession developed during the time of your career?

Fortunately, there is a progression but it is obviously much too slow. Women find it difficult to feel comfortable with their gender, particularly for positions of responsibility and some roles, especially in Latin countries, where the name of the position only has a masculine form may make women feel excluded.

One issue of importance in many countries is the gender given to certain words, which suggest a male in certain positions of responsibility. For example in Italy, it is not possible to say “avocate”, there is only “avvocato” (lawyer), and even the most committed feminists are referred to in this way. ‘Avvocata’ does not exist. It is different in Anglo-Saxon countries where the word is neutral.

In Paris, for the first time, the President of the Bar wishes to be called “Madame la Bâtonnière” and not “Madame le Bâtonnier”. She is the fourth woman out of 222 Presidents of the Bar. This figure says a lot about the difficulty women have accessing positions of responsibility.

There is also still an incredible disparity in the income gap between men and women. Typically, after ten years of practice, women earn 50% less than men.

Do you have any suggestions on how women should approach developing their profile for decision-making roles?

1. Ne pas hésiter à rester soi-même c’est-à-dire féminine:

Do not hesitate to remain yourself, that is to say, to be a woman.

2. Oser, oser, et oser! Dare, dare, and dare!

3. Essayer d’apprendre à ne plus être dans l’œil de l’autre qui est en général un œil masculin. Try not to perceive yourself through the eyes of another, which is generally a male eye.

Are there any differences in how to develop your profile if you are standing in an election?

Before thinking about an election, you must first reflect on yourself, that is to say, get rid of all the stereotypes that voluntarily or involuntarily your education has conveyed. For example, having ambition is not a defect but a quality that is not reserved only for men.

I think that it is one’s own actions and investment of time that may lead you to a different commitment, in the service of others, in the service of your profession and that an election is not an end in itself. It is only an instrument to help you advance your ideas and projects. In today's world, legitimacy is acquired by having this kind of behavior. In my view, election for the sake of the election is a male behavior, even if that may be a caricature.

From the extensive travelling you have done with the FBE, what do you see as key differences in leadership between different countries? Is there a gender impact?

It is essential that women take power because we will never be better served than by ourselves. What is also important is to have emblematic figures. At this level, there is a real awakening in Africa to which I have modestly contributed.

As part of the Paris Bar, even before taking up my duties, when I was elected, the then President of the Bar, Pierre-Olivier Sur, sent me in his place to the Conference International of the Bars Congress in Cotonou. On this occasion, I went to the meeting of all the Bar Presidents and found myself the only white woman in the middle of thirty black Presidents of the Bar Associations.

From that day and from my first speech in the debating chamber, I recalled the importance of African women lawyers, each time I spoke. Since then, two associations of African women lawyers have been set up. From now on, the way is open for there to be presidents who take power.

I carried out this action throughout my Bâtonnat. All the Presidents of the Bar did not understand my approach and were somewhat skeptical but I found great support afterwards. Sometimes you have to listen to the small voice inside you and the conviction that pushes you to act.

How do you think we can learn from different jurisdictions and political systems to take forward the importance of women participating at all levels of decision-making?

I am for positive discrimination. It is no longer possible to waste time. Positive discrimination seems to me to have been fundamental in advancing the place of women in all positions.

For example, the regulations which have established and advanced the place of women, whether in the business world, in the professions (parity in elections for example) but also a fundamental regulation to oblige men to take leave when a child arrives in the family, to stop sending women back to their wombs. A measure that may seem anecdotal but to me it is totally fundamental to change mental attitudes throughout society.

In all spheres of society, in all the places that traditionally were reserved for men, there is a need for women, be it a board of directors, presidency of the republic, etc. Another conception of power is needed for the 21st century. It will be feminine or not depending on us to invent another world.

I have the impression that many young women give up their private life in favor of professional life. However, it is also up to society to adapt to the female as well as male human. If we are forced to invest so much, it is a fundamental injustice for children, who need to see their parents. Equally, to have a full professional life, you have to flourish in another life, a full private life.

Translation by Solenne Brugère, Avocate, and Coral Hill, non-practicing solicitor. We have adopted a literal translation as far as possible to communicate the passion with which Dominique Attias speaks.