Cinekid Industry Forum Report 2019

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INDUSTRY FORUM REPORT 2019


OR REPO T RE RT R ORT EPO REP T RE RT POR P R PO RE T O T R R E T O P R OR REPO T RE RT R ORT EPO REP T RE RT POR O RE T R P FORUM INDUSTRY REPORT R O T R R E P T O P E T R PO RE T R RT OR EP R R O E P R OForum E T O R must-attend RIndustry E P T R P R R Cinekid’s is a one-day O E T R R E T T O O REP T R RT P R R E P O P R international for everyone interested E T in children’s P R RT event O P R O E R E P RE RTmedia. Orelevance P willR discuss R OParticipants E T issuesO ofRburning E P T P R R O E T Rthe future E debate P with experts O P R RinTthe OR EP R and ofP the industry E T R E O T R R E sessions P R RT field.OIn rapidly O P R R E T R alternating experts will tell you all E P O T P R R O EpitfallsTand the R PO T ofOtheir projects, Rdevelopment E the P the R R E T EP T Rabout P R PO RE O T R R E O P R O toRsuccess E T T practices. R theirRown R roads from E P R O P R O E T O E P R O P E T R RT PO P R RT OR EP E R T Othe R P2019 forum, R R R from O E T R R E P During the 45 professionals field of O T P R E T R RT O P R PO PO RE children’s R E T O P media from all over the world shared their ideas R O E T T E T R R PO P T OR EP R E R R R with you. During a series of 40-minute O T R R O REP andTtips E T R & tricks O P R O REdevelopment T projects, R ofRtheir R talk P O REP T R sessions, they about the O T R E P T O P R the P E wereT T andOhow R avoided R POhowRpitfalls E R R were right roads R E T O E P R Obackgrounds, T offered R experts R diverse E T R O REP T R P R O taken. From these T R R E P T O O P R P E media. Texperiences Ron, and E R E O T P R R their own take within, children’s E T R O E P R O RE T R RT O R guest P TR T R P O E R All attending got an exclusive insights into these E P T O O P R P E T R OR Tand their R minds E O P R R E T super-creative working practices. R RE RT OR EPO REP T R RT POR REP POR E EP O REP T R RT OR EPO RE T R P R here. anRoverviewOof all thePCinekid Forum T sessions click T TR R E O RE RT For R P R O T R P Ein-depth O OR reports of five of day’s two keyOthe R P on for E R T O RERead T R P P O R P R E E T P PO of five E T notesRand report Pof the R57 sessions. T TR O E E R P R RE R PO RE T R RT PO R P T O E E O R O P E R T R T R TheRForum isOco-hosted P PO and R P by T R RMediawijsheid Netwerk is E T TR E T P O O R R R E E R P PO by the Creative Europe MEDIA Programme. T T R O REPfunded T R R E O R R R O T P E T OR EPO RE EPO OR RT T R REP PO R E T TR O REP T R EP EPO OR RT R R R O T R R P RT POR REP EPO ORT RT R RE EPO POR RT T TR E P PO E EPO OR T TR R R E R R R RE O OR T PO P T TR R P E T R E O R RE R RT P PO E EP R R E R O T T TR P PO E EPO OR RT T TR R E R R RE O OR P PO T TR R P R E T R E O OR R O P E T TR P P E EPO OR RT R R E R P O T R RE REP POR ORT T R REP EPO OR RT T RE R RT P PO E EP R E T R O T R OR RT R P


O REP T R RT OR EP E T R RT PO R O RE T P R O T R R E P T O P R OR REPO T RE RT R ORT EPO REP T RE RT POR R PO RE T R O REP TPETER T R R T O P R KEYNOTE: O E T R P E P R O R R E T R O E P R E T O R OF R PO RE HEAD P T R R R O E LUNENFELD, T R E T T O O REP T R RT P R R E P O P R P E T P R RT MEDIA O R O E R ARTS AT UCLA E P RE RT DESIGN O REP T R RT OR EPO RE T R P O E T P O22 and P RideasRonTthe OR EP R(two kids, E R E P In his keynote Peter 25) shared O T R R E T P R RT O O P R R E R E P O T P R R importance and necessity of storytelling in the 21st century, O E T O E T R RT PO P R R E P O EP T Rbased R patience O E R RT Rin part on the 20thE century experience. He asked for P O P R O E T R R E T be considered P R O P R R O E as regards what may cultural imperialism as his RT R O E P O P R RT O R P E toward P T would R examples O E T R R generally be skewed the US west coast. E P T O P R R E T R PO RE T R RT O P R R O E O E P R P P R RT OR EPO RE T R RT PO E T O T P R R P O E T R R E R O T P R R O RE T R RT O E T P R PO R R E O P R O RT POR REP T RE RT R ORT EPO REP T RE RT E T P R PO R O T R R E R O P R E T P T OR EPO RE T R RT PO R E P R PO RE T R RT OR E T R E O R T R ORT EPO REP T RE RT POR EPO REP RT R P R PO RE T R RT PO T R R E O R E R RT O O O P E R R RT O P P E P R P E O E T R E T T TR P R PO REP T R E R R E R O R E O R RT O R RT P R EP T R E O O P R T O RE T R RT O P PO P R R P E E E T P T TR O R R E EPO E R P R O T R R E T O OR P P R T TR O R P E E R O P E R R R R RT O P PO P TR R E T E T P OR REPO T RE RT R OR RT R T RE REPO POR ORT P PO E EP R O E R T R O T P R O O R P R E T E R E T TR O REP T R EP EPO OR RT R R R O OR T TR P R T R O T P R E R O P E EP R P T TR O OR E R O R P E R P PO R E EP T TR R R E T R O R R O T PO R RT P E EP R R E T R O T TR P PO E EPO OR RT E R R E R R T R O P R RT E EP T TR E EPO OR RT R O R P OR ORT T R REP EPO ORT RT R T RE EPO POR P POR RT T R REP PO OR RT R RE EP E E EP R RE O OR T TR T R O P R R P PO E EP T TR R RT E T R O R R O R P E T R O R P E He said this life in media goes back 50 years (he is

of the stories children needed to have. As the context

57), all the way back to Sesame Street. He explained

shifted, so too must the text. Later, by the time kids are

how one of the early programmes had a winter scene

actively buying merchandise, scarlet fever is no longer

in with Grouch needed mittens, but the ones on the

a terrifying reality, polio is a thing of the past and new-

programme weren’t right, but it just so happened that

born babies come home healthy from the hospital.

Peter’s family lived just down the hall from the pro-

gramme’s costumer designer so the most important

The children born in the second half of the 20th

show made in America over the past 50 years actually

century were truly modern, he continued. Things

featured his mother’s fingerless gloves.

didn’t happen to them. Instead they and the adults

around them made things happen for them. What’s

He cited the year 1928, the year that everything

more, when rebooted, The Little Mermaid no longer

changes for the stories we tell children. Two reasons.

had to suffer for a prince whose legs burn with fire.

First reason is the discovery of penicillin, which

In fact she thrives.

changed the way the world operated, the first truly effective antibiotic. Doctors finally had a tool that

But where are we now? “[As an academic] I get the

would cure patients of deadly infections. What else

people that you entertain ten years after you’ve

was happening? Walt Disney is coming into his

got to them,” he said and he suggested a different

own. He takes the design for his Oswald Rabbit and

theme: Hello Family, referring firstly however to the

decides to shorten and round off the ears to create

$5billion business of the Fast and Furious family,

Mickey Mouse.

then the $20billion+ Marvel Avengers cash-cow

family. These are, he pointed out, disparate families

Peter described the world before 1928. It was a world

who don’t look like one another and quite often

in which sex and disease/death are intimately linked.

don’t even come from the same planet. But they

It is also the world of the fairy tale, in which death is at

build off “a base need for a child in pursuing this

the core and in which children regularly lose siblings.

sense of extended and extendable family.” But the

It is why Red Riding Hood gets eaten, why The Little

viewers of these enormous juggernauts remain

Match Girl perishes and The Little Mermaid suffers

solidly independent consumers. “These two biggest

together with a prince “on legs that burn like fire.”

franchises (Fast and Furious and Marvel Avengers) are all about family, yet they are perfect for our

What of 1929 and after? In essence Walt understands

neo-liberal consumer capitalist moment which

the change viscerally, Peter commented. He wouldn’t

creates the atomised and automatised lone consumer

necessarily trace it back to penicillin but what he

who cannot connect, and has no way of creating

would say that there was an ethical change in terms

solidarity with others outside the online spaces.”


O REP T R RT OR EP E T R RT PO R O RE T P R O T R R E P T O P R OR REPO T RE RT R ORT EPO REP T RE RT POR O REP T R RT OR EPO RE T R R T P O R P E T P R O T R R E R O E P R E R PO RE T R RT O P T R R O E R E T T O O REP T R RT P R R E P O P R RE RT R ORT EPO REP T RE RT POR EPO REP O REP T R RT OR EPO RE T R RT P P RE RT OR EPO REP T R RT POR EPO RE O REP T R RT OR EPO RE T R RT PO P E T P R PO RE O T R R E O P R E T R PO RE T R RT O P R R O E O E P R O P E T R RT PO P R RT OR EP E R T O P R R E T R PO RE T R RT O P R R O E O E P R P P R RT OR EPO RE T R RT PO E T O T P R R P O E T R R E R O T P R R O RE T R RT O E T P R PO R R E O P R O RT POR REP T RE RT R ORT EPO REP T RE RT E T P R PO R O T R R E R O P R E T P T OR EPO RE T R RT PO R E P R PO RE T R RT OR E T R E O R T R ORT EPO REP T RE RT POR EPO REP RT R P R PO RE T R RT PO T R R E O R E R RT O O O P E R R RT O P P E P R P E O E T R E T T TR P R PO REP T R E R R E R O R E O R RT O R RT P R EP T R E O O P R T O RE T R RT O P PO P R R P E E E T P T TR O R R E EPO E R P R O T R R E T O OR P P R T TR O R P E E R O P E R R R R RT O P PO P TR R E T E T P OR REPO T RE RT R OR RT R T RE REPO POR ORT P PO E EP R O E R T R O T P R O O R P R E T E R E T TR O REP T R EP EPO OR RT R R R O OR T TR P R T R O T P R E R O P E EP R P T TR O OR E R O R P E R P PO R E EP T TR R R E T R O R R O T PO R RT P E EP R R E T R O T TR P PO E EPO OR RT E R R E R R T R O P R RT E EP T TR E EPO OR RT R O R P OR ORT T R REP EPO ORT RT R T RE EPO POR P POR RT T R REP PO OR RT R RE EP E E EP R RE O OR T TR T R O P R R P PO E EP T TR R RT E T R O R R O R P E T R O R P E Even on Halloween night, when everybody dresses up

He underlines that now was a remarkable moment to

to go out in their Batman or Han Solo or Incredibles

look at how the 20th Century recast children’s media

suits, wielding their light sabres, all he sees is one

and the idea of childhood in such a way that stuff was

corporate mono-culture.

done for rather than to children.

He talked about three figures who were very im-

He repeated that it feels like there should be a demand

portant to him, Marshall McLuhan (who invented

for solidarity among and within the family but we are

media studies and the word ‘allatonceness’ which

only getting this “via the corporate mono-culture.”

referenced the world wide web before its invention),

the critic and novelist Susan Sontag who radically ex-

He therefore referenced both Spiderman: “with great

panded the purview of story-telling, and his colleague

power there also comes great responsibility,” and

Brenda Laurel, a veteran of children’s media and

Octavia Butler, the great sci-fi writer “who is never

founder of the Purple Moon company. “Brenda didn’t

bound by genre”. She said, “My characters hope for

like being known as an artist or a writer, she liked

better lives. They struggle to do things that they

being known as a cultural worker.” She wants, he said,

believe will make their lives better, make our species

to do big things with media that exist in a wider space

more likely to survive…” He further illustrated this

(she had a beef with the avant garde insofar as she

sentiment by showing a slide of Extinction Rebellion

wanted to bring in ideas in a way that would not acti-

at Glastonbury whereby 100s of people formed to

vate “an automatic immune system” in the audience

create an ER sign: “It’s not just that we want to do

to its aloof content).

things for our children, we want to make sure that our children are doing things with us to make the world and our lives better,” he concluded.


O REP T R RT OR EP E T R RT PO R O RE T P R O T R R E P T O P R OR REPO T RE RT R ORT EPO REP T RE RT POR P R PO RE T R O RE T R R T O IF YOU CAN’T SEE IT, P R O E T T R P E P R O R R E T R O E P R O RBE E R RT O RCAN’T E P T R P R YOU IT O E T R E T T O O REP T R RT P R R E P O P R P E TThe Bravest P T (BigOBad R RRezaie O R E R E P RE RTShabnam Boo, NY and Vancouver): Knight O REP T R RT OR EPO RE T R P O E T P R PO REP T R RT OR EP R E O R E T P R RT O O P R R E R E P O T P R R O E T R EP T RE RT POR EPO REP RT R ORT POR REPO E T R PO RE T R RT O P R R O E O E P R O P E T R RT PO P R RT OR EP E R T O P R R E T R PO RE T R RT O P R R O E O E P R P P R RT OR EPO RE T R RT PO E T O T P R R P O E T R R E R O T P R R O RE T R RT O E T P R PO R R E O P R O RT POR REP T RE RT R ORT EPO REP T RE RT E T P R PO R O T R R E R O P R E T P T OR EPO RE T R RT PO R E P R PO RE T R RT OR E T R E O R T R ORT EPO REP T RE RT POR EPO REP RT R P R PO RE T R RT PO T R R E O R E R RT O O O P E R R RT O P P E P R P E O E T R E T T TR P R PO REP T R E R R E R O R E O R RT O R RT P R EP T R E O O P R T O RE T R RT O P PO P R R P E E E T P T TR O R R E EPO E R P R O T R R E T O OR P P R T TR O R P E E R O P E R R R R RT O P PO P TR R E T E T P OR REPO T RE RT R OR RT R T RE REPO POR ORT P PO E EP R O E R T R O T P R O O R P R E T E R E T TR O REP T R EP EPO OR RT R R R O OR T TR P R T R O T P R E R O P E EP R P T TR O OR E R O R P E R P PO R E EP T TR R R E T R O R R O T PO R RT P E EP R R E T R O T TR P PO E EPO OR RT E R R E R R T R O P R RT E EP T TR E EPO OR RT R O R P OR ORT T R REP EPO ORT RT R T RE EPO POR P POR RT T R REP PO OR RT R RE EP E E EP R RE O OR T TR T R O P R R P PO E EP T TR R RT E T R O R R O R P E T R O R P E The Bravest Knight, made by Shabnam’s NY/Van-

she would have to up her game, because that was

couver-based company Big Bad Boo, just launched

the home of The Handmaid’s Tale. She searched out

on the Hulu SVOD platform in the US. This was the

a specific look for the show, one of the highest quality,

first Hulu original in the kids’ category. Big Bad Boo

such as that of a Disney feature from the 60s - painted

mainly does 2D animated TV series. The flagship

images that draw you in, juxtaposed with very bright

show 1001 Nights is airing in around 80 countries

characters that jump off the page.

right now after two seasons. Shabnam also oversees a curriculum programme that she implements with

She also wanted to “re-programme” how people think

partners like Unicef and UN Women in schools and in

of societal norms, such as gender, hence “Queen and

refugee camps. They are reaching approximately half

King” and the naming of characters – “names belong

a million refugee children with the specific education

to people not genders.”

programme associated with 1001 Knights.

Company crew and cast is always gender-balanced

The story of The Bravest Knight was originally

as is the writer’s room, and she is determined

a digital story book about a young pumpkin farmer

to find writers from the cultures she is representing

who wanted to be a knight. He works his way up

on screen. If necessary, she will bring them in and

and eventually saves a prince and a princess from

train them up. “We invest in changing the media

a dragon and brings them back home to the Queen

landscape by giving back and bringing writers in that

and King (important reversal) who ask if he wants

we can train, so that next time around when someone

the daughter’s hand in marriage. He refuses for the

is looking for a Chinese writer, for example, there is

prince, and they get married.

somebody there.”

Now the boys are married and have adopted a girl

She has received great feedback for the show, much

who also wants to be a brave knight like her dad.

from same sex parents who have never before been able to enjoy this type of content. Nevertheless she

In every episode there is a knighthood lesson,

has also received a lot of hate comments from the

such as how to be a good swimmer, so there is a

Christian right (generally adults). There is much

flashback to his boyhood, which is a great way to

to-ing and fro-ing in the Facebook chat, “and that is

introduce issues of LBGTQ in a kids environment.

exactly why we did the show, to open up the conver-

Other characters include Grunt the Troll who has lost

sation. If you want to quote the bible, let’s have it!”

his bridge, and over the 13 episodes we meet the vil-

lains you would meet in fairy tales. “Only our villains

Hulu launched the first five episodes in June 2019

are just misunderstood. For example you meet the

as part of a Pride campaign and Hulu promised

Big Bad Wolf who is a cross dresser in our show, and

to donate $50,000 to the Trevor Project (which

is played by Ru Paul.” Shabnam looks to attach lots of

prevents suicides in LGBTQ community, which is very

great recognisable names to the show. “We take extra

commonplace) if the show had 50,000 views in the

love in casting the characters, and our mission has

first 4 weeks. They got 50,000 views in the first 4 days!

always been to show characters that are not normally shown on television… the content is inclusive and

Feedback from children: “Kids don’t even think about

representative of the life that is around me.”

this stuff. They don’t see any of the issues that are discussed at very adult tables.”

The artwork was very important to Shabnam and

when she heard that she would be on Hulu she knew


O REP T R RT OR EP E T R RT PO R O RE T P R O T R R E P T O P R OR REPO T RE RT R ORT EPO REP T RE RT POR O REP T R RT OR EPO RE T R R T P O R P E T P R O T R R E R O E P R E R PO RE T R RT O P T R R O E R E T T O O REP T R RT P R R E P O P R RE RT R ORT EPO REP T RE RT POR EPO REP O REP T R RT OR EPO RE T R RT P P RE RT OR EPO REP T R RT POR EPO RE O REP T R RT OR EPO RE T R RT PO P E T P R PO RE O T R R E O P R E T R PO RE T R RT O P R R O E O E P R O P E T R RT PO P R RT OR EP E R T O P R R E T R PO RE T R RT O P R R O E O E P R P P R RT OR EPO RE T R RT PO E T O T P R R P O E T R R E R O T P R R O RE T R RT O E T P R PO R R E O P R O RT POR REP T RE RT R ORT EPO REP T RE RT E T P R PO R O T R R E R O P R E T P T OR EPO RE T R RT PO R E P R PO RE T R RT OR E T R E O R T R ORT EPO REP T RE RT POR EPO REP RT R P R PO RE T R RT PO T R R E O R E R RT O O O P E R R RT O P P E P R P E O E T R E T T TR P R PO REP T R E R R E R O R E O R RT O R RT P R EP T R E O O P R T O RE T R RT O P PO P R R P E E E T P T TR O R R E EPO E R P R O T R R E T O OR P P R T TR O R P E E R O P E R R R R RT O P PO P TR R E T E T P OR REPO T RE RT R OR RT R T RE REPO POR ORT P PO E EP R O E R T R O T P R O O R P R E T E R E T TR O REP T R EP EPO OR RT R R R O OR T TR P R T R O T P R E R O P E EP R P T TR O OR E R O R P E R P PO R E EP T TR R R E T R O R R O T PO R RT P E EP R R E T R O T TR P PO E EPO OR RT E R R E R R T R O P R RT E EP T TR E EPO OR RT R O R P OR ORT T R REP EPO ORT RT R T RE EPO POR P POR RT T R REP PO OR RT R RE EP E E EP R RE O OR T TR T R O P R R P PO E EP T TR R RT E T R O R R O R P E T R O R P E Did she test the programme with the audience?

At MIPCOM the first international sale of the show

They are a very small company with next to no

was to Israel. “I was born in Iran. It was in my mind

budget for research and focus groups. “I wish I had

that the first sale would be to Holland, somewhere

that luxury. But I do have kids who have friends and

up in the west of Europe. But it was down here in the

we run the stories by them plus the songs, but it is

Middle East.”

very ad hoc and by the seat of our pants.”

Shabnam outlined how a problem in selling the series

Did she brainstorm the issues that had to be

is that traditional broadcasters need 26 x11, so a

addressed in the film? “Daniel, the writer of the

lot of digital platforms can carry the show, “but the

original book, wrote all the scripts and he weaved

broadcasters who love, love, love it, they say we need

all these great things into the show without even

season 2, which means that I have to wait another

knowing he was doing it.” When Shabnam read the

5000 years.”

scripts she felt that what they were trying to do was more than the show. “It was bigger than anything

Why so? Hulu was very recently bought by Disney

I had ever done and that was when I decided I had

which means everything becomes a committee

to up the art. I have to up the characters. I need

decision which slows down the whole process, she

a star cast. It was a combination of Daniel wanting

felt, and there may be a question mark over how

to tell the story and me wanting to shine the spot-

commercial the shop might be from a merchandising

light on what we are trying to do. It is the first time

perspective. “Disney typically push their own brands,

any one is doing a show like this so it needs extra

but because we own the IP for The Bravest Knight

attention and extra love.”

then they may push it to the bottom.”


O REP T R RT OR EP E T R RT PO R O RE T P R O T R R E P T O P R OR REPO T RE RT R ORT EPO REP T RE RT POR R PO RE T R O REP TBALOJI T R R T KEYNOTE: O P R O E T R P E P R O R R E T R O E P R O RE TBaloji E Tthe afternoon R gave R actor/musician/artist Belgium-based P T R O P R R O E R E Forum. P film T O keynote O P at Industry R RT R E T R He stars in the Cinekid opening E P O T P R R E P T R O P R O E T R R with E P RE RTBINTI,O together his daughter Bebel. P R PO RE T R T R E O P R O E T E T R RT PO P R P P R E R O E R O E T R R E P R RT O O P R R E T R E T P O P R RT O R O E R E P O T P R R E P T O E T R R PO P R E T R E P R PO RE T R R O T R R E O P R PO RE RT R ORT PO REP T RE RT OR EPO E T P T O O P R R R E R R E P O T P R R PO RE RT R ORT PO REP T RE RT OR EPO E T P T O O P R RT R E R R E P O T P R R O RE T R RT O E T P R PO R R E O P R O RT POR REP T RE RT R ORT EPO REP T RE RT E T P R PO R O T R R E R O P R E T P T OR EPO RE T R RT PO R E P R PO RE T R RT OR E T R E O R T R ORT EPO REP T RE RT POR EPO REP RT R P R PO RE T R RT PO T R R E O R E R RT O O O P E R R RT O P P E P R P E O E T R E T T TR P R PO REP T R E R R E R O R E O R RT O R RT P R EP T R E O O P R T O RE T R RT O P PO P R R P E E E T P T TR O R R E EPO E R P R O T R R E T O OR P P R T TR O R P E E R O P E R R R R RT O P PO P TR R E T E T P OR REPO T RE RT R OR RT R T RE REPO POR ORT P PO E EP R O E R T R O T P R O O R P R E T E R E T TR O REP T R EP EPO OR RT R R R O OR T TR P R T R O T P R E R O P E EP R P T TR O OR E R O R P E R P PO R E EP T TR R R E T R O R R O T PO R RT P E EP R R E T R O T TR P PO E EPO OR RT E R R E R R T R O P R RT E EP T TR E EPO OR RT R O R P OR ORT T R REP EPO ORT RT R T RE EPO POR P POR RT T R REP PO OR RT R RE EP E E EP R RE O OR T TR T R O P R R P PO E EP T TR R RT E T R O R R O R P E T R O R P E Baloji started by explaining the meaning of his name.

For the past six or seven years Baloji has been a

It is Swahili and denotes a lead sorcerer, the one “who

writer/director on several shorts and features, but

takes the power” and is the equivalent of “devil” or

he pointed out how he always gets rejected by film

“demon.” In the past it has been a very difficult name

commissions because he is a musician, and for most

to bear, he said, and he tried to it from his passport.

commissioners he should stick to that. It subsequent-

But this process would have cost €5000, so he refused.

ly became very difficult for him to exist as an artist, other than as a musician, because of the way the

However, when he became a rap artist, the name

system is structured.

kind of worked for him. “I decided it would be a nice way of calling myself an artist, and in a way it has

Nevertheless he showed us a clip from his music vid-

had a big impact on the person that I am today and

eo Zombies for which he very recently received a UK

on the relationship with my kid, and on my art as a

Music Video Award. The work is magical realist and

musician. It allows me to be extremely free. There

he is working on a feature in the same vein.

has never been any expectation of me in my life as I

grew up without a mum and I came to the Europe at

the age of four, and this helped me to find my place in this experience.”


O REP T R RT OR EP E T R RT PO R O RE T P R O T R R E P T O P R OR REPO T RE RT R ORT EPO REP T RE RT POR O REP T R RT OR EPO RE T R R T P O R P E T P R O T R R E R O E P R E R PO RE T R RT O P T R R O E R E T T O O REP T R RT P R R E P O P R RE RT R ORT EPO REP T RE RT POR EPO REP O REP T R RT OR EPO RE T R RT P P RE RT OR EPO REP T R RT POR EPO RE O REP T R RT OR EPO RE T R RT PO P E T P R PO RE O T R R E O P R E T R PO RE T R RT O P R R O E O E P R O P E T R RT PO P R RT OR EP E R T O P R R E T R PO RE T R RT O P R R O E O E P R P P R RT OR EPO RE T R RT PO E T O T P R R P O E T R R E R O T P R R O RE T R RT O E T P R PO R R E O P R O RT POR REP T RE RT R ORT EPO REP T RE RT E T P R PO R O T R R E R O P R E T P T OR EPO RE T R RT PO R E P R PO RE T R RT OR E T R E O R T R ORT EPO REP T RE RT POR EPO REP RT R P R PO RE T R RT PO T R R E O R E R RT O O O P E R R RT O P P E P R P E O E T R E T T TR P R PO REP T R E R R E R O R E O R RT O R RT P R EP T R E O O P R T O RE T R RT O P PO P R R P E E E T P T TR O R R E EPO E R P R O T R R E T O OR P P R T TR O R P E E R O P E R R R R RT O P PO P TR R E T E T P OR REPO T RE RT R OR RT R T RE REPO POR ORT P PO E EP R O E R T R O T P R O O R P R E T E R E T TR O REP T R EP EPO OR RT R R R O OR T TR P R T R O T P R E R O P E EP R P T TR O OR E R O R P E R P PO R E EP T TR R R E T R O R R O T PO R RT P E EP R R E T R O T TR P PO E EPO OR RT E R R E R R T R O P R RT E EP T TR E EPO OR RT R O R P OR ORT T R REP EPO ORT RT R T RE EPO POR P POR RT T R REP PO OR RT R RE EP E E EP R RE O OR T TR T R O P R R P PO E EP T TR R RT E T R O R R O R P E T R O R P E Baloji is also an actor, but his height makes life diffi-

At an early age Baloji left for Belgium with his

cult given he is 1.98 metres. Also, “as a black person

father, leaving behind his Congolese mother. Feeling

it is difficult to get a job in cinema - the random one,

estranged after falling out with his dad and getting

the good friend, the guy coming from jail or the guy

into trouble with the police, he left home and lived in

doing the garbage. It is a serious problem, because

a youth detention centre. He explained how he was

if you receive a script and if it doesn’t mention that

subsequently told that “if you don’t grow up with peo-

this character is black, that means that it is designed

ple that love you, or tell you that they love you, then

for a white person. It may sound clichéd but it is an

you are not going to be capable of loving in return.”

important issue… we need [greater] nuance.”

This was, he stressed, “complete bullshit”. His rela-

tionship with his daughter proves very much to the

When he first read the script for BINTI, it seemed like

contrary. “I just want her to be herself, to learn hard

the same old story. He was asked to play a refugee,

and to be loved. It is the only thing to teach kids, to be

but what made it very interesting was that the main

as they are and not push them to be an extension of

character was very close in age to his daughter Bebel,

our own dreams or achievements as a grown-up.”

who was perfect for the role. She is very media literate, just like the character in the film. When he suggested

Baloji concluded by stressing the maxim that he applies

to director Frederike Migom that she should cast the

to his professional life, and to the life of his daughter

father/daughter combo she was at first sceptical, but

Bebel: “I truly believe that if you can see yourself free

when she agreed he was “extremely proud.”

and emancipated on screen you can project yourself free and emancipated in your actual life.”


O REP T R RT OR EP E T R RT PO R O RE T P R O T R R E P T O P R OR REPO T RE RT R ORT EPO REP T RE RT POR R PO RE T R O REP T R PLAYGROUND T R T EMOTIONAL O P R O E T R P E P R O R R E T R O E P R O RE T R RT O E REden’sPAdventure Abner Preis: P T R R O E R E T T O O REP T R RT P R R E P O P R RE RT R ORT EPO REP T RE RT POR EPO REP O REP T R RT OR EPO RE T R RT P P RE RT OR EPO REP T R RT POR EPO RE O REP T R RT OR EPO RE T R RT PO P E T P R PO RE O T R R E O P R E T R PO RE T R RT O P R R O E O E P R O P E T R RT PO P R RT OR EP E R T O P R R E T R PO RE T R RT O P R R O E O E P R P P R RT OR EPO RE T R RT PO E T O T P R R P O E T R R E R O T P R R O RE T R RT O E T P R PO R R E O P R O RT POR REP T RE RT R ORT EPO REP T RE RT E T P R PO R O T R R E R O P R E T P T OR EPO RE T R RT PO R E P R PO RE T R RT OR E T R E O R T R ORT EPO REP T RE RT POR EPO REP RT R P R PO RE T R RT PO T R R E O R E R RT O O O P E R R RT O P P E P R P E O E T R E T T TR P R PO REP T R E R R E R O R E O R RT O R RT P R EP T R E O O P R T O RE T R RT O P PO P R R P E E E T P T TR O R R E EPO E R P R O T R R E T O OR P P R T TR O R P E E R O P E R R R R RT O P PO P TR R E T E T P OR REPO T RE RT R OR RT R T RE REPO POR ORT P PO E EP R O E R T R O T P R O O R P R E T E R E T TR O REP T R EP EPO OR RT R R R O OR T TR P R T R O T P R E R O P E EP R P T TR O OR E R O R P E R P PO R E EP T TR R R E T R O R R O T PO R RT P E EP R R E T R O T TR P PO E EPO OR RT E R R E R R T R O P R RT E EP T TR E EPO OR RT R O R P OR ORT T R REP EPO ORT RT R T RE EPO POR P POR RT T R REP PO OR RT R RE EP E E EP R RE O OR T TR T R O P R R P PO E EP T TR R RT E T R O R R O R P E T R O R P E Abner nearly caused a riot when he took his Forum

He learns experientially, “so it was so much more

table directly to the Medialab where they could enjoy

interesting for me to see what Tesla’s studio looked

his VR project Eden’s Adventure first hand, before

like, rather than read it.” It is much more positive

getting down to talk about it. The problem was that

and memorable when you are actually a part of it,

we all jumped a long queue that contained a lot of

he added. Also, he has an art-based aesthetic (he

expectant kids – and their dads.

loves and studied Caravaggio) but he lost the love for art itself when he was involved in “the economy of

Nevertheless we all experienced the delightful VR

art”, and having to make flat 2D works. Which is why

which presented a little girl (Eden, named after

working in VR is so exciting because he is continually

Abner’s own daughter) as she discovers the world

breaking new ground.

in all its facets and across many ages.

“This is a storybook not a video game, all hand-

When we returned Abner explained his modus

drawn,” and developed on his computer. It is

operandi in creating the VR, hand-drawn using Tilt

multilingual with voice-overs in a multitude of

Brush. His assignment was initially, he explained, to

language. The artwork is simple but he is not

do a work about anthropology and technology. “The

concerned about its simplicity. “The deeper I got into

idea was given to me, so that was great. I love when I

fine art the more I found myself trying to change who

get a concept that I can work with because then the

I am, which was a really big mistake. But fortunately

world is open to me. And as an artist I always work

I was able to bring it back.”

with happy endings so already I have these con-

straints, but constraints for me are very good. Some

He showed us his HMKV Dortmund installation:

of my favourite directors use constraints to open

The Lottery which told the story of “the world’s

other rainbows. Happy endings, never negativity.”

biggest loser” in which the clown costumes of the

actors on stage had to be worn by audience members

He realised that all the people working in technology

too. “It was truly immersive. You were a part of the

seemed to be men, which he set out to address.

story. It made me view the viewer as the artwork,

“I wanted Eden to be in a world that could inspire

more than the core art itself.”

her.” He wanted her experience to be time-based

and chronological, starting in the Stone Age, going

He was asked about the singular experience of VR?

through to Ancient Egypt, onto Nikola Tesla, then to

How can it be more inclusive, more sharing?

the computer age, then under water, up into space

“I believe that new technology is far more social than

and back in to the classroom (his daughter’s real

any other art form,” he countered. “You are never

classroom). He wanted every adventure to be funny

doing it alone… For me I don’t believe there is

but with time restrictions applied, hence he had to

anything solitary about it, from the maker to the

kill a lot of his darlings.

observer. Everything that you are experiencing has been touched by millions of people.”

Another participant explained their collective

experience in watching a Laurie Anderson VR.

“You have those minutes by yourself, the same

experience as others, and afterwards you discuss what you saw, through word or social media.”


O REP T R RT OR EP E T R RT PO R O RE T P R O T R R E P T O P R OR REPO T RE RT R ORT EPO REP T RE RT POR O REP T R RT OR EPO RE T R R T P O R P E T P R O T R R E R O E P R E R PO RE T R RT O P T R R O E R E T T O O REP T R RT P R R E P O P R RE RT R ORT EPO REP T RE RT POR EPO REP O REP T R RT OR EPO RE T R RT P P RE RT OR EPO REP T R RT POR EPO RE O REP T R RT OR EPO RE T R RT PO P E T P R PO RE O T R R E O P R E T R PO RE T R RT O P R R O E O E P R O P E T R RT PO P R RT OR EP E R T O P R R E T R PO RE T R RT O P R R O E O E P R P P R RT OR EPO RE T R RT PO E T O T P R R P O E T R R E R O T P R R O RE T R RT O E T P R PO R R E O P R O RT POR REP T RE RT R ORT EPO REP T RE RT E T P R PO R O T R R E R O P R E T P T OR EPO RE T R RT PO R E P R PO RE T R RT OR E T R E O R T R ORT EPO REP T RE RT POR EPO REP RT R P R PO RE T R RT PO T R R E O R E R RT O O O P E R R RT O P P E P R P E O E T R E T T TR P R PO REP T R E R R E R O R E O R RT O R RT P R EP T R E O O P R T O RE T R RT O P PO P R R P E E E T P T TR O R R E EPO E R P R O T R R E T O OR P P R T TR O R P E E R O P E R R R R RT O P PO P TR R E T E T P OR REPO T RE RT R OR RT R T RE REPO POR ORT P PO E EP R O E R T R O T P R O O R P R E T E R E T TR O REP T R EP EPO OR RT R R R O OR T TR P R T R O T P R E R O P E EP R P T TR O OR E R O R P E R P PO R E EP T TR R R E T R O R R O T PO R RT P E EP R R E T R O T TR P PO E EPO OR RT E R R E R R T R O P R RT E EP T TR E EPO OR RT R O R P OR ORT T R REP EPO ORT RT R T RE EPO POR P POR RT T R REP PO OR RT R RE EP E E EP R RE O OR T TR T R O P R R P PO E EP T TR R RT E T R O R R O R P E T R O R P E Yes, there is a solitary element, Abner agreed, but he referred to new systems now which can be shared

and in which you can observe your neighbour in VR. But he reiterated that he feels VR is, essentially, a collective medium.

“Eden’s Room is filled with a 100 female artists and

posters,” he added. “Tesla’s room is fascinating, and did you see The Beatles and the Yellow Submarine?

It is a storybook, that’s how I treated it.” And how did he overcome the feelings of nausea kids sometimes feel in a VR? “I made sure that with any part of

movement, you are at the centre. It’s about you. It’s about the audience.”


O REP T R RT OR EP E T R RT PO R O RE T P R O T R R E P T O P R OR REPO T RE RT R ORT EPO REP T RE RT POR R PO RE T R O REP THE T R R T PUSHING LIMITS O P R O E T T R P E P R O R R E T R O E P R O de RBoeck E T discussed R Ovesen R PKato Young filmmakers and Fanny E P T R O R R O E T R Eabout kids P with T O theirEshort O very P films R RT R E T R but which were made much P O T P R R E P T R O P R O E T R R E P RE RTan adult audience in mind. O REP T R RT OR EPO RE T R P O E T P R PO REP T R RT OR EP R E O R E T P R RT O O P R R E R E P O T P R R O E T R EP T RE RT POR EPO REP RT R ORT POR REPO E T R PO RE T R RT O P R R O E O E P R O P E T R RT PO P R RT OR EP E R T O P R R E T R PO RE T R RT O P R R O E O E P R P P R RT OR EPO RE T R RT PO E T O T P R R P O E T R R E R O T P R R O RE T R RT O E T P R PO R R E O P R O RT POR REP T RE RT R ORT EPO REP T RE RT E T P R PO R O T R R E R O P R E T P T OR EPO RE T R RT PO R E P R PO RE T R RT OR E T R E O R T R ORT EPO REP T RE RT POR EPO REP RT R P R PO RE T R RT PO T R R E O R E R RT O O O P E R R RT O P P E P R P E O E T R E T T TR P R PO REP T R E R R E R O R E O R RT O R RT P R EP T R E O O P R T O RE T R RT O P PO P R R P E E E T P T TR O R R E EPO E R P R O T R R E T O OR P P R T TR O R P E E R O P E R R R R RT O P PO P TR R E T E T P OR REPO T RE RT R OR RT R T RE REPO POR ORT P PO E EP R O E R T R O T P R O O R P R E T E R E T TR O REP T R EP EPO OR RT R R R O OR T TR P R T R O T P R E R O P E EP R P T TR O OR E R O R P E R P PO R E EP T TR R R E T R O R R O T PO R RT P E EP R R E T R O T TR P PO E EPO OR RT E R R E R R T R O P R RT E EP T TR E EPO OR RT R O R P OR ORT T R REP EPO ORT RT R T RE EPO POR P POR RT T R REP PO OR RT R RE EP E E EP R RE O OR T TR T R O P R R P PO E EP T TR R RT E T R O R R O R P E T R O R P E Provence was Belgian Kato’s first film. The film

The table found it highly encouraging that Kato tested

derived from her experiences during a summer

the limitations of the kids market in her graduation

holiday when she was 11. She had a great relationship

film. “Sometimes the kids’ genre is just too infantile,”

with her older brother but that summer things began

said one, welcoming the director’s approach. Another

to change. He was obviously carrying a secret that

referred to it as “a film without filters” and another

other people knew, but she didn’t. That secret was

that it “can open dialogues” more effectively.

that he was falling in love with another boy, and he

Fanny Ovesen commented how the feelings in the

couldn’t divulge this to her. But she was young, and

film were expressed in a very nuanced way, through

couldn’t understand the limited communications she

gazes and gestures and therefore challenged audi-

was getting from him.

ences on an emotional level. “It’s like modern art,’ said another contributor. “It’s not like art is made

She told this story to her tutor at film school who

for children or adults, but we go there. They may not

strongly advised her to tell this story on celluloid,

understand Mondriaan in a way an adult will, but it

but she wanted her story not to be about a boy discov-

is something they will see and think about.”

ering he is gay, rather about a girl losing her childhood. What does it mean and what can we as adults learn

Fanny Ovesen’s She-pack was her graduation film

from this? A story told totally from her perspective, with

which centres on a group of 11-year-old girls cele-

no adult input at all in its telling, but still with an adult

brating a birthday at a public pool disco. One girl

audience in mind. “Families are very much on their own

challenges the alpha status of one of the other girls

with their habits, but when you want to show things

and eventually the “game” escalates into an explosive

falling apart, a holiday is the best way to show it…

situation where things quickly get out of control.

“When I show it to children they never expect that he

Ovesen was sick of the cutesy depiction of innocent

is actually in love with a boy, so at the Q and A’s they

little girls, who are seldom allowed to behave like

ask who he is in love with [as this is never explicit],

“assholes”. She chose 11-year-olds on the cusp of

but for us as adults we know what things mean.

change and yet to develop a mental compass in a

Children need more explicit dialogue.”

situation where things can easily get out of control.

It would be interesting, she said, to see how an audience

The adult aspect is further underlined by nudity and

would respond to a group of small girls growing from

the depiction of masturbation, as shown in a further

cute and innocent into distasteful and threatening, and

sequence. The film is based on memory, and no child

uncomfortable to watch as especially as the two alphas

ever seemed overly concerned by this, Kato said.

“feed on the urge to explore their power”.

Instead they tried to comprehend the narrative

questions. The naked bodies of the older people

She quoted form her notes before the film’s

around the lake represented the clear delineation of

realisation: “We are not operating in the children’s

age and sensuality, and the emphasis of the film on

film genre. I believe that the political questions we

childhood. These were themes more easily understood

want to raise will resonate better with adults. It would

by adult audiences, she felt.

be wonderful if kids and teenagers can appreciate the film, maybe they can even understand it differently

She had great freedom making this film at film school

from adults. We will not moralise and thoughts on

where there were no market constraints, and she felt

what the film wants to say should arrive as a reflection

she could do what she wanted to do.

afterwards. It is supposed to be an emotional ride, rather than an intellectual one.”


O REP T R RT OR EP E T R RT PO R O RE T P R O T R R E P T O P R OR REPO T RE RT R ORT EPO REP T RE RT POR O REP T R RT OR EPO RE T R R T P O R P E T P R O T R R E R O E P R E R PO RE T R RT O P T R R O E R E T T O O REP T R RT P R R E P O P R RE RT R ORT EPO REP T RE RT POR EPO REP O REP T R RT OR EPO RE T R RT P P RE RT OR EPO REP T R RT POR EPO RE O REP T R RT OR EPO RE T R RT PO P E T P R PO RE O T R R E O P R E T R PO RE T R RT O P R R O E O E P R O P E T R RT PO P R RT OR EP E R T O P R R E T R PO RE T R RT O P R R O E O E P R P P R RT OR EPO RE T R RT PO E T O T P R R P O E T R R E R O T P R R O RE T R RT O E T P R PO R R E O P R O RT POR REP T RE RT R ORT EPO REP T RE RT E T P R PO R O T R R E R O P R E T P T OR EPO RE T R RT PO R E P R PO RE T R RT OR E T R E O R T R ORT EPO REP T RE RT POR EPO REP RT R P R PO RE T R RT PO T R R E O R E R RT O O O P E R R RT O P P E P R P E O E T R E T T TR P R PO REP T R E R R E R O R E O R RT O R RT P R EP T R E O O P R T O RE T R RT O P PO P R R P E E E T P T TR O R R E EPO E R P R O T R R E T O OR P P R T TR O R P E E R O P E R R R R RT O P PO P TR R E T E T P OR REPO T RE RT R OR RT R T RE REPO POR ORT P PO E EP R O E R T R O T P R O O R P R E T E R E T TR O REP T R EP EPO OR RT R R R O OR T TR P R T R O T P R E R O P E EP R P T TR O OR E R O R P E R P PO R E EP T TR R R E T R O R R O T PO R RT P E EP R R E T R O T TR P PO E EPO OR RT E R R E R R T R O P R RT E EP T TR E EPO OR RT R O R P OR ORT T R REP EPO ORT RT R T RE EPO POR P POR RT T R REP PO OR RT R RE EP E E EP R RE O OR T TR T R O P R R P PO E EP T TR R RT E T R O R R O R P E T R O R P E She wanted to distance herself from the children’s

to be girls exploring the boundaries of femininity.

genre and any notion that the audience must be

What can femininity be? It can be both pulling a doll

“guided by the hand” as the story is presented.

apart or very gently touching a woman’s stomach and

She drew a distinction between two type of films

showing curiosity and compassion.”

for kids, those that offer a clear message and those that ask questions to instil a sense of reflection.

One of her references points was The Lord of the Flies.

In her film she avoided talking down to children and

It was in Fanny’s director’s concept, but she wanted

underestimating their capacity to process this kind

to put a twist on that theme rather than present the

of content. She ended up with a film that divided

dreadful spiral we see in the William Golding story.

adults, half of whom think of it as a kids’ film, half

There is an optimism in her film and many people

of whom say they would never show it to their kids.

also see it as liberating.

The film screened in Berlin Generation, and created

At the Cinekid screening she was concerned about

a strong response among the kids. At the Q and A the

two 9-year-olds who objected to the underdog Alpha

questions were ‘why’ the characters would act in the

aspirant being invited to the pool part in the first

way, or do the things, they did in the film. One boy

place, upsetting the equilibrium.

of 12 asked why they made such a perverted film,

referring to the scene in which the she-pack try to

One guest felt that we underestimate children,

remove the towel of an old man in the sauna. “The

even as young as nine, and that we shouldn’t fear their

moral of the film doesn’t come from the film itself but

emotional reaction. Growing up is about recalibration

rather the processing of the film together with others,

according to shifting boundaries. Another thought that

either kids their own age or with adults.”

kids are on a continuum and are not always yet ready for all content, arguing that sometimes kids can be

We saw a very tense scene where the girls seem to

threaten a pregnant woman only to be intrigued by her bump, placing their palms on it. “We wanted it

offered too much a little too early in their development.


O REP T R RT OR EP E T R RT PO R O RE T P R O T R R E P T O P R OR REPO T RE RT R ORT EPO REP T RE RT POR P R PO RE T R OSTORY T R R E T THE IS O P R O E T T R R R P E P R O R E T R O E P R O RE T R RT O E R COUNTS P T R P R WHAT O E R E T T O O REP T R RT P R R E P O P Epodcaster P T OR CEEPTinkercast, R RHalpern-Ranzer, O R E T R P RE RTMeredith O REP T R RT OR EPO RE T R P O E T P R PO REP T R RT OR EP R E O R E T P R RT O O P R R E R E P O T P R R O E T R EP T RE RT POR EPO REP RT R ORT POR REPO E T R PO RE T R RT O P R R O E O E P R O P E T R RT PO P R RT OR EP E R T O P R R E T R PO RE T R RT O P R R O E O E P R P P R RT OR EPO RE T R RT PO E T O T P R R P O E T R R E R O T P R R O RE T R RT O E T P R PO R R E O P R O RT POR REP T RE RT R ORT EPO REP T RE RT E T P R PO R O T R R E R O P R E T P T OR EPO RE T R RT PO R E P R PO RE T R RT OR E T R E O R T R ORT EPO REP T RE RT POR EPO REP RT R P R PO RE T R RT PO T R R E O R E R RT O O O P E R R RT O P P E P R P E O E T R E T T TR P R PO REP T R E R R E R O R E O R RT O R RT P R EP T R E O O P R T O RE T R RT O P PO P R R P E E E T P T TR O R R E EPO E R P R O T R R E T O OR P P R T TR O R P E E R O P E R R R R RT O P PO P TR R E T E T P OR REPO T RE RT R OR RT R T RE REPO POR ORT P PO E EP R O E R T R O T P R O O R P R E T E R E T TR O REP T R EP EPO OR RT R R R O OR T TR P R T R O T P R E R O P E EP R P T TR O OR E R O R P E R P PO R E EP T TR R R E T R O R R O T PO R RT P E EP R R E T R O T TR P PO E EPO OR RT E R R E R R T R O P R RT E EP T TR E EPO OR RT R O R P OR ORT T R REP EPO ORT RT R T RE EPO POR P POR RT T R REP PO OR RT R RE EP E E EP R RE O OR T TR T R O P R R P PO E EP T TR R RT E T R O R R O R P E T R O R P E Meredith explained how, as a third grader, she had

Tinkercast was founded in 2017 to create podcasts

a tape recorder that she would use to record sounds

and 360-degree experiences for families and schools

from her neighbourhood and then play then back to

to come together “beyond the screen”.

her classmates to guess what they were listening to. Then she acquired a VCR and filmed her friends all

“Our mission is to share amazing stories that are

the time, editing on an edit-suite. When it came to

happening in the world and to give hope and agency,

thinking about college she knew she wanted to be

and have people saying ‘Wow’, and we want to inspire

a maker, and decided upon editing. When she did a

kids to be the Tinkers and thinkers of tomorrow.”

children’s media course, everything clicked for her.

Her partners Guy Laz and Mindy Thomas were very

After college, she wrote on Sesame Street and then

much of the same mind as Meredith. They all felt there

worked as an in-house editor, working across all

was a way to inspire hope and optimism and to give

departments from games to co-pros to research

kids agency in the world through audio content. At

and marketing to the programme itself, basically

that time there was no breakthrough podcasts for kids.

“for anybody who wanted to tell their story”.

“For me the most amazing thing about podcasting…

“For me editing is storytelling, it’s where it all comes

is that you are co-creating. There is a deep act of

together, you figure out the pacing and how you want

co-authorship with a great potential for empathy…

to tell your story and all the pieces that come together

We are all parents and storytellers and we want

in telling that story…I still think of myself as an editor

our kids to be engaged beyond the screen and in

because I still think of myself as a storyteller.”

conversations. And we were concerned about the

news and what is happening and what it means to

After Sesame Street, she went to the new 24-hour

kids that their parents are turning off the news in

pre-school channel Sprout, by which time she was

front of them. What does that symbolise, that they

also directing and producing. She was there for ten

are not ready to hear what is happening in the real

years from 2005-15.

world, that we don’t want to have this conversation? Ultimately we believe that the kids should be part

During that time the media landscape changed

of the conversation - and it is their world.”

beyond recognition and she also had a young son.

Weirdly despite making a lot of content she wasn’t

Podcast: Wow in the World

watching a lot of content even though she and her

For Wow in the World Tinkercast goes to peer-group

son were doing a lot of other stuff together. Then

scientific journals to find new and amazing discover-

Pokémon Go came out which was really fun “but

ies that are happening in the world and then create a

he was still there with a screen in his face”. And she

narrative, a very humour-heavy character-driven tale

would despair at his not engaging with the world.

that delivers “that amazing real Wow”. It is sophisticated science intercut with a lot of humour and fart jokes,

At that time she was, herself, really into podcasts and

which the kids love. It is hosted by Guy and Mindy.

the realisation began to dawn that there was very

little out there for kids in the podcast world. Here was

Meredith played a very funny clip from the Exploding

this screen alternative. Could it be possible to devise

Ants podcast (with farts).

something that was equally compelling in an audio

setting? Something as exciting as a video or a game? “That was the challenge I was up for.”


O REP T R RT OR EP E T R RT PO R O RE T P R O T R R E P T O P R OR REPO T RE RT R ORT EPO REP T RE RT POR O REP T R RT OR EPO RE T R R T P O R P E T P R O T R R E R O E P R E R PO RE T R RT O P T R R O E R E T T O O REP T R RT P R R E P O P R RE RT R ORT EPO REP T RE RT POR EPO REP O REP T R RT OR EPO RE T R RT P P RE RT OR EPO REP T R RT POR EPO RE O REP T R RT OR EPO RE T R RT PO P E T P R PO RE O T R R E O P R E T R PO RE T R RT O P R R O E O E P R O P E T R RT PO P R RT OR EP E R T O P R R E T R PO RE T R RT O P R R O E O E P R P P R RT OR EPO RE T R RT PO E T O T P R R P O E T R R E R O T P R R O RE T R RT O E T P R PO R R E O P R O RT POR REP T RE RT R ORT EPO REP T RE RT E T P R PO R O T R R E R O P R E T P T OR EPO RE T R RT PO R E P R PO RE T R RT OR E T R E O R T R ORT EPO REP T RE RT POR EPO REP RT R P R PO RE T R RT PO T R R E O R E R RT O O O P E R R RT O P P E P R P E O E T R E T T TR P R PO REP T R E R R E R O R E O R RT O R RT P R EP T R E O O P R T O RE T R RT O P PO P R R P E E E T P T TR O R R E EPO E R P R O T R R E T O OR P P R T TR O R P E E R O P E R R R R RT O P PO P TR R E T E T P OR REPO T RE RT R OR RT R T RE REPO POR ORT P PO E EP R O E R T R O T P R O O R P R E T E R E T TR O REP T R EP EPO OR RT R R R O OR T TR P R T R O T P R E R O P E EP R P T TR O OR E R O R P E R P PO R E EP T TR R R E T R O R R O T PO R RT P E EP R R E T R O T TR P PO E EPO OR RT E R R E R R T R O P R RT E EP T TR E EPO OR RT R O R P OR ORT T R REP EPO ORT RT R T RE EPO POR P POR RT T R REP PO OR RT R RE EP E E EP R RE O OR T TR T R O P R R P PO E EP T TR R RT E T R O R R O R P E T R O R P E In total, Tinkercast has created 96 episodes, 35 hours

And it is all about the story, which must be written in

of original content and has had 35 million down-

a very visual way to allow kids “to open up their own

loads. The company is consistently number one in

visuals in terms of how they see it”. What engages

the Apple Podcast charts in the US. The podcasts are

kids is universal. They like topics, they like humour,

free and 15% of listenership is international.

and they like to have a place and a destination.

And the stories are diverse - kids are amazed at how

Why is it working? “We have tapped into something

fun science can be. Topics range from cuteness

that families can do together”. There has, Meredith

aggression to music that cheeses respond to, although

suggested, been a backlash among millennial parents

animals and poop (and farts) are the biggest draw.

to do something meaningful with their kids. 90% of

kids listen to Tinkercast podcasts with grown-ups.

Meredith brought the figures up to date to indicate

98% of parents feel that they are leaning something too.

the growth in podcast engagement. In the States right now there are approx. 145 million listeners, 12 years

And after they listen the conversation continues,

and up, so the country has hit the 50% plus mark,

Meredith pointed out. The kids want to know more,

considerably more than in Europe.

share with their friends and re-enact Guy and Mindy sequences. They have tapped into a Sesame Street

What is next? She considers Tinkercast to be a kids

style of humour where kids and adults are experiencing

media company and has devised tentacles to get it

something funny, everybody is learning and it offers

out into the world. There is a live show once a month

quality time together.

in a US city and is selling out 3000-seat theatres and putting on science music extravaganzas. They are

Kids are more creative after an audio than an

developing new subject matters, and this year

audio-visual experience, Meredith argued. They

received a grant from the National Science Foundation

are twice as likely to retain info (when compared

in the US to make podcast platforms for schools to

to reading, lectures or audio-visual). Research shows

help teachers teach science and to enable them to

they can comprehend two to three grade levels higher

think about engaged listening and its benefits.

when they hear something other than read it, as they don’t have to “break down the decoding of the words

Meredith told how car journeys and mealtimes are

that goes along with learning to read.”

the most popular communal times for families to


O REP T R RT OR EP E T R RT PO R O RE T P R O T R R E P T O P R OR REPO T RE RT R ORT EPO REP T RE RT POR O REP T R RT OR EPO RE T R R T P O R P E T P R O T R R E R O E P R E R PO RE T R RT O P T R R O E R E T T O O REP T R RT P R R E P O P R RE RT R ORT EPO REP T RE RT POR EPO REP O REP T R RT OR EPO RE T R RT P P RE RT OR EPO REP T R RT POR EPO RE O REP T R RT OR EPO RE T R RT PO P E T P R PO RE O T R R E O P R E T R PO RE T R RT O P R R O E O E P R O P E T R RT PO P R RT OR EP E R T O P R R E T R PO RE T R RT O P R R O E O E P R P P R RT OR EPO RE T R RT PO E T O T P R R P O E T R R E R O T P R R O RE T R RT O E T P R PO R R E O P R O RT POR REP T RE RT R ORT EPO REP T RE RT E T P R PO R O T R R E R O P R E T P T OR EPO RE T R RT PO R E P R PO RE T R RT OR E T R E O R T R ORT EPO REP T RE RT POR EPO REP RT R P R PO RE T R RT PO T R R E O R E R RT O O O P E R R RT O P P E P R P E O E T R E T T TR P R PO REP T R E R R E R O R E O R RT O R RT P R EP T R E O O P R T O RE T R RT O P PO P R R P E E E T P T TR O R R E EPO E R P R O T R R E T O OR P P R T TR O R P E E R O P E R R R R RT O P PO P TR R E T E T P OR REPO T RE RT R OR RT R T RE REPO POR ORT P PO E EP R O E R T R O T P R O O R P R E T E R E T TR O REP T R EP EPO OR RT R R R O OR T TR P R T R O T P R E R O P E EP R P T TR O OR E R O R P E R P PO R E EP T TR R R E T R O R R O T PO R RT P E EP R R E T R O T TR P PO E EPO OR RT E R R E R R T R O P R RT E EP T TR E EPO OR RT R O R P OR ORT T R REP EPO ORT RT R T RE EPO POR P POR RT T R REP PO OR RT R RE EP E E EP R RE O OR T TR T R O P R R P PO E EP T TR R RT E T R O R R O R P E T R O R P E listen. And the podcasts aren’t age-specific - the

All revenue streams derive from the mothership of

audience is 3-12. “With podcasting, because the

the podcast – such as the live shows. The podcast is

visuals are in their own heads, there is nothing to tell

the brand and the property and the marketing vehicle

them it is not for them. And there must be one new

for the other revenue streams to make it sustainable.

Wow takeaway per episode. The optimum length per

“We are very mission-driven and profit-driven to

episode is 25 minutes.

sustain ourselves.” Meredith underlined how they love what they are doing are not “selling out”.

There have been three seasons so far, with a new

programme placed in the feed every week. If there is

not a new episode available they will pull an episode from the library. “The company is both the content and the marketing vehicle for the podcast.”

As regards the financials, it is hard to get money to

make podcasts. “We are a unicorn in that way as we have a lot of listeners and are getting sponsorship

money. So to make it work, a few people must wear a lots of hats. The writers, hosts, producers are all playing characters to keep overheads down.”


O REP T R RT OR EP E T R RT PO R O RE T P R O T R R E P T O P R OR REPO T RE RT R ORT EPO REP T RE RT POR P MATTER R PO RE T R ODOES T R R E T SIZE O P R O E T T R R R P E P R O R E T R O E P R O RE Psychobitch E R RT O R PApe&Bjørn: Ruben Thorkildsen, P T R R O E T R E T T O O REP T R RT P R R E P O P R RE RT R ORT EPO REP T RE RT POR EPO REP O REP T R RT OR EPO RE T R RT P P RE RT OR EPO REP T R RT POR EPO RE O REP T R RT OR EPO RE T R RT PO P E T P R PO RE O T R R E O P R E T R PO RE T R RT O P R R O E O E P R O P E T R RT PO P R RT OR EP E R T O P R R E T R PO RE T R RT O P R R O E O E P R P P R RT OR EPO RE T R RT PO E T O T P R R P O E T R R E R O T P R R O RE T R RT O E T P R PO R R E O P R O RT POR REP T RE RT R ORT EPO REP T RE RT E T P R PO R O T R R E R O P R E T P T OR EPO RE T R RT PO R E P R PO RE T R RT OR E T R E O R T R ORT EPO REP T RE RT POR EPO REP RT R P R PO RE T R RT PO T R R E O R E R RT O O O P E R R RT O P P E P R P E O E T R E T T TR P R PO REP T R E R R E R O R E O R RT O R RT P R EP T R E O O P R T O RE T R RT O P PO P R R P E E E T P T TR O R R E EPO E R P R O T R R E T O OR P P R T TR O R P E E R O P E R R R R RT O P PO P TR R E T E T P OR REPO T RE RT R OR RT R T RE REPO POR ORT P PO E EP R O E R T R O T P R O O R P R E T E R E T TR O REP T R EP EPO OR RT R R R O OR T TR P R T R O T P R E R O P E EP R P T TR O OR E R O R P E R P PO R E EP T TR R R E T R O R R O T PO R RT P E EP R R E T R O T TR P PO E EPO OR RT E R R E R R T R O P R RT E EP T TR E EPO OR RT R O R P OR ORT T R REP EPO ORT RT R T RE EPO POR P POR RT T R REP PO OR RT R RE EP E E EP R RE O OR T TR T R O P R R P PO E EP T TR R RT E T R O R R O R P E T R O R P E Producer Ruben spoke about his latest film

the film any longer than 90 minutes (Psychobitch is

Psychobitch, selected for Cinekid, both from

120 mins). And after all that, if you really are going to

production and marketing perspectives.

do it, cast somebody from the megahit TV/online hit show Skam.

The pitch was very simple: a boy falls in love with the wrong girl. Or the longer version: Marius has

But they didn’t want to do any of those things. So

to collaborate on a school project with an odd girl

how do they engage audiences without an IP or a

called Frida, who once tried to commit suicide. It all

star, especially when you as makers are closer in age

becomes complicated when they get to know each

to 40 than to 16. “We didn’t want to moralise but we

other better and start to fall in love. This moving,

still wanted to make a film about this social confor-

touching and sometimes hilarious film shows that

mity thing and put a perspective on their way of life,”

you should not be afraid to dance to a different beat

something the kids may not even recognise or see as

now and again.

a mere statistical blip.

It is a love story set in Generation Perfect, i.e. the

Director Martin was very concerned about how to

generation of kids who drink less, take fewer drugs

convert all of this to something the kids related to.

and are generally less rebellious, but who suffer

How do they see this? Not, how do we see this?

higher levels of mental health.

Another thing was choosing a small town setting in

Ruben’s approach was to work very closely with the

Norway, not Oslo like all other Norwegian films. It

writer/director Martin Lund, so he was “part of the

was important for the story but also from a marketing

project from page one”. It all began when they came

perspective that this story could have played out in

across an international study measuring social

any town or any place. It was all about how the kids

conformity which showed Norway in the Top 5

related to the story.

together with Singapore and South Korea. The report measured specifically how countries negatively

Also Martin worked very hard on creating a series of

sanction behaviour outside of the norm. Norwegians

“collective reactions” within the film, and it turned

generally see themselves as part of a free society,

into a film that kids wanted to watch as part of a

so this was quite a surprise. The production team

group. This led to great word of mouth and a desire to

figured out that this must have an impact on a

experience it collectively.

generation whose members are continually setting out to create their own identity, i.e. teens.

As importantly, it is a love story, a story about vulnerability.

In the film, Marius is doing everything right on the

outside, but we see how difficult it is to live up to this

From a marketing perspective, Ruben was told that

norm, especially if society expects that we should all

this generation are ad blockers. They are allergic to

be alike.

ads. They are not fond of being told what to watch.

Also in Norway companies are not allowed to target

The film reached an audience of more than 100,000,

online marketing to this age group. Nevertheless the

out of a potential 13-15 year audience of 150,000.

kids are high consumers of content that they can

“It became quite a blockbuster.” But they had initial

relate to.

hurdles to overcome. They were told that teenagers don’t go to the cinema any more. And if they do

So, how to get people in to the cinemas?

they only watch Marvel and certainly not original

Norwegian-scripted drama. Also, don’t use the title

After a few test screenings they had the feeling they

Psychobitch, they were advised. And do not make

had a film that would engage the interest of kids, one


O REP T R RT OR EP E T R RT PO R O RE T P R O T R R E P T O P R OR REPO T RE RT R ORT EPO REP T RE RT POR O REP T R RT OR EPO RE T R R T P O R P E T P R O T R R E R O E P R E R PO RE T R RT O P T R R O E R E T T O O REP T R RT P R R E P O P R RE RT R ORT EPO REP T RE RT POR EPO REP O REP T R RT OR EPO RE T R RT P P RE RT OR EPO REP T R RT POR EPO RE O REP T R RT OR EPO RE T R RT PO P E T P R PO RE O T R R E O P R E T R PO RE T R RT O P R R O E O E P R O P E T R RT PO P R RT OR EP E R T O P R R E T R PO RE T R RT O P R R O E O E P R P P R RT OR EPO RE T R RT PO E T O T P R R P O E T R R E R O T P R R O RE T R RT O E T P R PO R R E O P R O RT POR REP T RE RT R ORT EPO REP T RE RT E T P R PO R O T R R E R O P R E T P T OR EPO RE T R RT PO R E P R PO RE T R RT OR E T R E O R T R ORT EPO REP T RE RT POR EPO REP RT R P R PO RE T R RT PO T R R E O R E R RT O O O P E R R RT O P P E P R P E O E T R E T T TR P R PO REP T R E R R E R O R E O R RT O R RT P R EP T R E O O P R T O RE T R RT O P PO P R R P E E E T P T TR O R R E EPO E R P R O T R R E T O OR P P R T TR O R P E E R O P E R R R R RT O P PO P TR R E T E T P OR REPO T RE RT R OR RT R T RE REPO POR ORT P PO E EP R O E R T R O T P R O O R P R E T E R E T TR O REP T R EP EPO OR RT R R R O OR T TR P R T R O T P R E R O P E EP R P T TR O OR E R O R P E R P PO R E EP T TR R R E T R O R R O T PO R RT P E EP R R E T R O T TR P PO E EPO OR RT E R R E R R T R O P R RT E EP T TR E EPO OR RT R O R P OR ORT T R REP EPO ORT RT R T RE EPO POR P POR RT T R REP PO OR RT R RE EP E E EP R RE O OR T TR T R O P R R P PO E EP T TR R RT E T R O R R O R P E T R O R P E they would recommend. So they started a 6-week pro-

The dance challenge in the film became a viral

mo tour of the film from the south to the north (three

sensation across Norway among celebrities (Marius

hours flight away), homing in on 17 towns across the

is challenged to dance off the beat in the film). They

17 regions of Norway, arranged free screenings, plus

displayed their skills on Instagram.

they arranged school screenings. The whole youth

cast travelled on the promo tour and it became the

Also the poster was brilliant and eye-catching. The ti-

start of the word of mouth campaign.

tle of the film was contentious but when placed above the image of Frida in class pointing up, it denoted

They also had a Health Sista, a nurse at a high school

ownership on her part. If she wasn’t pointing at it she

in Norway who snapchatted about topics concerning

would have been a victim of the title. It became a vital

teenagers, such as mental and physical health issues,

component of the campaign, giving it attitude. Also,

and she became very popular, eventually quitting her

kids wore “I want to be a Psychobitch” sweaters. The

job to become a full-time snapchat nurse in Norway

potential “bomb” of the film’s title was diffused by

for teenagers.

their fore fronting it.

“We knew she had a channel to the kids, and then

The film took 2 months in the cinema to gain the

one day she came onto the set and was treated like

100,000 admissions, beating a youth film of a few

a rock star. It was amazing to see the access she had

months prior (which starred Skam actors) which

to them – they totally opened up to her. What’s more,

reached the 40,000 audience level. Exhibitors were

she loved the film, really connected with it and want-

interested by the tour and could observe audience

ed to be a close part of the promotion.”

reactions, and Ruben therefore confounded their

assumptions that kids don’t go to the cinema. Also,

The production had a policy that no adults could

there were no blockbusters to compete with. What’s

promote the film because of the “eye level” policy of

more, the tour acted as an exciting countdown to the

teenager to teenager contact, but Sista Health was the

big city releases.

exception. They didn’t see her as an adult, but as one of them (some of the topics are very serious, such as

In terms of the age of kids going to see it, the 10 and

suicide and eating disorders). “This generation is very

11-year olds seemed to be going with their parents. Kids

open for discussing such issues.”

aged 12+ said ‘no way’ to parental accompaniment.


Funded by Creative Europe MEDIA Programme

Kattenburgerstraat 5 Gebouw 003 G (Poortgebouw) 1018 JA Amsterdam cinekid.com

Co-hosted by Mediawijzer


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