Page 331 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT EASTERN DISTRICT OF WISCONSIN ----------------------------THOMAS J. HOLMES, et al.,
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Plaintiffs, vs.
Case No. 14-CV-208
JOHN DICKERT, et al.,
Page 333
VOLUME 2
Defendants. ----------------------------VIDEO DEPOSITION OF: MR. JOHN DICKERT TAKEN AT: RACINE CITY HALL LOCATED AT: 730 Washington Avenue Racine, Wisconsin July 30, 2015 1:30 p.m. to 4:20 p.m. REPORTED BY: VICKY L. ST. GEORGE, RMR. -----------------------------
JOB NO. 2111873
EXHIBITS NUMBER DESCRIPTION PAGE Exhibit Volume 1 of the Deposition of Tom 394 1573 Tousis Exhibit Email Dated 4-22-2009 From Williams 402 1574 to Bach Exhibit Email Dated 4-22-2009 From Williams 407 1575 to Bach Exhibit Email Chain Dated 7-9-2013 From 423 1576 Dickert to Friedel Exhibit Email Chain Dated 3-12-2009 From 428 1577 Jerger to Williams Exhibit Email Chain Dated 3-15-2009 From 431 1578 Jerger to Williams Exhibit Email Chain Dated 3-10-2011 From 432 1579 Pramme to Pramme
(Original exhibits attached to original transcript. Original transcript delivered to Attorney Eldridge.)
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APPEARANCES SEGAL McCAMBRIDGE SINGER & MAHONEY, by MR. BRIAN ELDRIDGE 233 South Wacker Drive, Suite 5500 Chicago, Illinois 60606 (312) 645-7800 beldridge@smsm.com Appeared on behalf of the Plaintiffs. KOHLER & HART, S.C., by MR. DAN H. SANDERS 735 North Water Street, Suite 1212 Milwaukee, Wisconsin 53202 (414) 271-9595 dhsanders@kohlerandhart.com Appeared on behalf of the Plaintiffs. MEISSNER TIERNEY FISHER & NICHOLS, by MR. MICHAEL J. COHEN 111 East Kilbourn Avenue, 19th Floor Milwaukee, Wisconsin 53202 (414) 273-1300 mjc@mtfn.com Appeared on behalf of the Defendants except Doug Nicholson.
14
ALSO PRESENT: Mark Lyle, Videographer. 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
INDEX WITNESS PAGE MAYOR JOHN DICKERT CONTINUED EXAMINATION BY MR. ELDRIDGE
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PROCEEDINGS THE VIDEO OPERATOR: We're on the record, the beginning of disk 1 volume 2 of the deposition of John Dickert. Today's date is July 30th, 2015. The time 1:38 p.m. Our court reporter today is Vicky St. George who will swear in the witness. MR. JOHN DICKERT, called as a witness herein, after having been first duly sworn on oath, was examined and testified as follows: CONTINUED EXAMINATION BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. Good afternoon, Mayor Dickert. Again, I'm Brian Eldridge. We were last together on the 10th of July, does that sound about right, 20 days ago? A. I believe so. Q. You remember we went through a series of ground rules before your deposition began? A. Yes. Q. Do you have -- do you need me to refresh your recollection on those ground rules? A. I don't believe so. I think one of them was instead of ya, yes or no. Q. Ya works, too. No, the most important one I'll just remind you of which is if you don't understand a question that I ask you, please ask me to repeat or
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Exhibit 16
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rephrase the question or at least for the next two hours we can have the court reporter read it back to you. Fair enough? A. Fair enough. Q. If you answer a question that I ask you, I'm going to assume that you understood the question and that you gave a meaningful, sincere response, fair? A. Correct. Q. All right. Have you done any preparation for this particular session of your deposition? In other words, have you looked at anything or done any prep between your first sitting 20 days ago and now? A. Only that Michael and I spoke before we got here about some of the things -Q. Don't tell me what you guys spoke about. That's privileged information, so keep that amongst yourself. A. Okay. Q. Aside from conversations that you had with counsel, did you do any prep work? A. No. Q. Okay. Have you reviewed any sort of documentation? A. No. I did see one email. I think that was about it. Q. What email did you see? A. I saw an email from -- it was -- with -- in regards
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him not to answer, joint defense privilege. BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. The answer is you did talk to Alderman Kaplan about your deposition? Don't tell me what you said. MR. COHEN: Yes or no. THE WITNESS: About the deposition, no. BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. Okay. Did you review the deposition of Tom Tousis? A. No, I did not. Q. Have you ever? A. I don't -Q. I know I asked you these questions before. I don't remember the answers. A. Tom Tousis, I don't recall doing that. Q. You know he was deposed a couple days ago? A. I don't know that. Q. Okay. And I think you told me you reviewed portions of Zak Williams' statement? A. I reviewed portions of that statement I believe that he gave, yes. Q. But you haven't reviewed that statement in between your first sitting for your deposition and today? A. Correct. Q. All right. You knew that today's deposition would focus on campaign contributions?
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to Zak Williams and Tommy Tousis saying something fairly bad about me. Q. Okay. What did it say? A. Something to the fact that Zak wanted to see me sodomized in prison. That was his Christmas wish. Q. And who provided you with this email? A. I believe it was sent from one of our attorneys. Q. Okay. And when was it that you looked at that email? A. I don't recall the date. It was probably within the last week or two. Q. Okay. Aside from that email, have you reviewed any other documentation? A. Not that I recall. Q. Did you review a transcript of day one of your deposition? A. I did not. Q. Did you review the video from day one of your deposition? A. I did not. Q. Did you review Alderman Kaplan's recent deposition testimony? A. I have not. Q. Did you talk to Alderman Kaplan about his deposition? A. Only that he told me -MR. COHEN: Hold on, I'm going to instruct
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A. I believe that's what you said when we were leaving. Q. Right. And did you review any of your campaign finance reports in preparation for your deposition today? A. No, I have not. Q. Why not? A. I didn't think it was that important for me to review them. Q. Did you think that it would be appropriate for you to familiarize yourself with the campaign finance reports before I asked you about them? A. I rarely look at the campaign finance reports, and so no. Q. Did you review any emails relating to campaign donations in between your first deposition and today? A. With regard to -Q. Any emails relating to campaign donations made towards your campaign? A. Since the last time we spoke? Q. Sure. A. I don't believe that I have. Q. How about during the pendency of this litigation, have you reviewed any emails that you remember relating to campaign contributions? A. The only ones that I reviewed we talked about at the
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last one, and you presented me with a series of emails that we reviewed and talked about in this deposition. Q. Were they about campaign contributions? A. A couple of them I believe were. Q. Do you remember reviewing any correspondence between Mary Jerger and Beth Pramme relating to campaign contributions made to you? A. I remember that I believe you showed me something in our last conversation. Q. What was it? A. You showed me some emails between the two of them. Q. I don't remember that. Who prepares your campaign finance reports? MR. COHEN: Presently? BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. Yeah, let's talk about presently first. A. Right now either Carly -Q. Carly who? A. Carly Wilson who is my campaign manager, or Jim DeMatthew who is my treasurer. Q. And how about back in 2009, who was preparing your campaign finance reports? A. Well, that would have been Mary Osterman and I would assume in tandem with Zak Williams.
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get it straight. Please repeat the question. BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. I'll just reframe it or restate it. Have you familiarized yourself with the rules and limitations on campaign contributions? A. I ask my campaign manager or finance person when the campaign is up, I try to familiarize myself with the limitations. Q. In 2009 were you familiar and knowledgeable about the campaign contribution limitations? A. Somewhat. They were -- I don't know if it was 2009 or 2011. They were in flux because of the census. But I was somewhat familiar. Q. Do you remember what the limitations were in 2009? A. I believe it's around $800. I believe it was like right around $800 per person. Q. Okay. And was there a cash contribution limit? A. I know that there is. Q. Do you remember what it was in 2009? A. No idea. Q. If I told you it was $50, would that seem correct to you? A. I seriously have no idea. Q. Okay. Do you remember whether there was an anonymous cash contribution limit?
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Q. And did Mary -- is it Mary Osterman or Mary Jerger? What do you refer, do you refer to her as Osterman? A. Mary Osterman. Q. Okay. Do you know what, if any, training Mary Osterman has had on preparing campaign finance reports? A. You mean when she started or while she was doing it? Q. Let me reframe the question. A. Okay. Q. As of 2009 -- at any time before 2010 do you know of any training Ms. Osterman received for preparing campaign finance reports? A. I don't know that Mary did or did not do any training for preparing campaign finance reports. Q. You don't know one way or the other? A. I don't. Q. Do you have any training on campaign finance reporting? A. No. Q. Are you obliged to familiarize yourselves with the laws and limitations on campaign finance reporting? MR. COHEN: Objection to the extent it calls for a legal conclusion. Subject to that, you can answer. THE WITNESS: I just want to make sure I
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A. Q. A. Q. A. Q.
I believe there is. Do you know what that is today? I have no idea. Do you know what it was in 2009? I have no idea. If I told you it was $20, would that seem right to you? A. It may be. Q. You don't know? A. I don't know. Q. Why don't you know what the contribution limits are? A. Because I go out and raise money, and I let my treasurer and/or finance people tell me what the contributions are. Q. What do you do to assure that the campaign finance reports that are submitted on your behalf are true and accurate? A. I trust the people that do my work. Q. So you yourself don't do anything to ensure that they're true and accurate? A. I rarely go through the campaign finance report. Q. Do you have to sign any sort of guaranty or affirmation that the campaign finance reports are true and accurate? A. Well, the campaign treasurer or myself are the
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signators on the campaign finance reports. Q. Have you -- do you separate from the -- being the signator on the campaign finance report, do you as either a mayoral candidate or sitting in office have to verify or swear that the campaign finance reports you submit are true and accurate? A. I don't know that we swear that they're true and accurate. The person that signs them is the person that usually fills them out which is usually my treasurer. If I have to sign that, I peruse through it quickly. But like I say, I trust my people to do a good job. Q. Do you know where those campaign finance reports are sent? A. I believe they're sent downstairs to J.J. in the City Clerk's Office. Q. Do you know where they go from there? A. No. Q. Do you know what Ms. Jerger's background was in campaign finance reporting, if any, when you hired her as your treasurer? A. I don't know that she had any. We needed somebody to be the treasurer and keep track of the books, and Mary was willing to volunteer to do that. Q. Did she have any background in bookkeeping when you
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2009 or did Mary? A. He can't. He's not the treasurer or the candidate, but he was hired as the finance chair. Q. Okay. So what, if any, training did Zak Williams provide to Mary Jerger? A. That I don't know. You'd have to ask him. Q. Did you direct Zak Williams to provide training to Mary Jerger? A. I asked Zak to help Mary through the process as we were working through the campaign. Q. Did you direct Zak Williams to provide her with specific training, yes or no? A. I asked Zak Williams to work through the finance reports with Mary. Q. Okay. Did you tell Zak Williams that it was his responsibility to make sure that the campaign finance reports were true and accurate? A. I don't know if I ever made that statement. Q. In 2009 what did you do to assure that your campaign did not accept contributions in excess of the legal limits? A. I do what I always do which is I go out and raise money and expect my treasurer and my finance chair to make sure that the reporting is done correctly. Q. Okay. So, again, you did not affirmatively do
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hired her as a treasurer? A. She ran her own business, so I assume she had some experience in bookkeeping. Q. If your custom and practice was to rely upon the people who are preparing your campaign finance reports like Mary Jerger instead of checking them yourself to make sure that they were true and accurate, why is it that you would not ensure that Mary Jerger received training on campaign finance reporting before you hired her as treasurer? MR. COHEN: Objection, argumentative. Go ahead. THE WITNESS: I don't know that anyone receives training on being a treasurer. BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. Well, you certainly didn't hire a consultant or any independent body to provide Mary Jerger with training before you hired her as your treasurer and vested her with responsibility to insure that your campaign finance reporting was true and accurate, did you? A. I hired Zak Williams, and he was the finance director, so I was expecting him to provide advice to Mary to make sure that he was keeping proper -- they were keeping proper books. Q. Did Zak Williams sign the campaign finance reports in
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anything to make sure that you did not accept -- let me withdraw the question. You did not do anything to make sure that you did not accept campaign contributions in excess of the lawful limits, did you? MR. COHEN: Objection to the form of the question. Vague. Go ahead. THE WITNESS: Again -MR. COHEN: Asked and answered. THE WITNESS: -- I go out and raise money and make sure that if the contributions are inaccurate or not supposed to be accepted, that the treasurer and the campaign finance chairman take care of that. BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. You go out and raise money, you said that, right? A. Yes. Q. And you don't keep track specifically about how much particularly people donate? A. I do not. Q. Okay. You leave that to the responsibility of your campaign treasurer? A. And/or the finance chair. Q. Okay. So in 2009 that would have been the responsibility of Zak Williams and Mary Jerger?
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A. Q. A. Q.
Correct. Collectively? Correct. And you don't have any responsibility in your opinion for making sure that the campaign does not accept contribution in excess of the legal limits? That's not your job? A. My job is to raise money. I pay Zak Williams to be the finance director, and Mary was a volunteer to help out with the campaign finance reports. Q. If in fact your campaign took in or received contributions in excess of the legal limits in 2009, do you disclaim any responsibility for that? MR. COHEN: Objection, assumes facts not in the records. Objection to the form of the question. Also calls for a legal conclusion. Subject to all those objections, you can answer if you can. THE WITNESS: If there was any contribution that was over, Zak's supposed to, as a finance chair, inform Mary. If she did not know already, that -- then they would have to either send that contribution or do something with it, but we cannot accept contributions over the limit. BY MR. ELDRIDGE:
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MR. COHEN: Objection, calls for a legal conclusion, form of the question, vague. Go ahead. THE WITNESS: That is up to my campaign staff, treasurer and campaign finance chair to deal with. BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. I think we're on the same page. I know that you're saying that the responsibility is on at least in 2009 the shoulders of Zak Williams and Mary Osterman. As a follow-up to that question are you disclaiming any personal responsibility to assure that the campaign did not accept contributions in excess of the legal limits? MR. COHEN: Same objections. Go ahead and answer. THE WITNESS: If I don't know about them, I don't know how I can claim responsibility. BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. Okay. If any illegal campaign contributions or excess contributions were brought to your attention, what would you do? MR. COHEN: Objection, form of the question, incomplete hypothetical, assumes facts not in evidence. Go ahead subject to the objection. THE WITNESS: Do you have a specific?
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Q. Let me ask the question again because I don't think that was responsive. If -- we'll get to it, but if in fact the evidence bears out that your campaign accepted contributions in excess of the legal limits in 2009, do you disclaim any responsibility for that? MR. COHEN: Objection to the form of the question, also calls for a legal conclusion. He's already answered you. Subject to the objections, go ahead and answer if you can. THE WITNESS: If there was a contribution that was brought in that was over the limit, as a finance chair, it's Zak's job to make sure that that is dealt with appropriately. BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. Okay. And you as the Mayor have no responsibility in that regard? A. In 2009 I -MR. COHEN: Objection, assumes facts not in evidence. He wasn't Mayor. THE WITNESS: -- I wasn't the Mayor. MR. ELDRIDGE: Thank you. BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. You as the mayoral candidate have no responsibility in that regard?
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BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. I will. But I'm just dealing generally right now. If an illegal or an excess contribution was brought to your attention, what would you do? MR. COHEN: Same objections. THE WITNESS: I would -MR. COHEN: Form of the question. THE WITNESS: -- make sure that my campaign finance chair and my treasurer deal with it accordingly. BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. What actions would you take to make sure that your campaign wasn't breaking the laws? MR. COHEN: Same objections. Go ahead and answer. THE WITNESS: I would tell them to fix it. BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. Okay. And would you do any follow-up activity to make sure that it was fixed consistent with your instructions, or would you just trust that they fixed it? MR. COHEN: Objection to the form of the question. Incomplete hypothetical, improper question, form of the question. Go ahead. THE WITNESS: I would trust them to fix
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it. BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. Okay. Are you friends with any members of the Tavern League, social? MR. COHEN: Objection, vague. THE WITNESS: Like -- Tavern League is a pretty big group. BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. Yeah. Are you friends with anyone on it? A. I don't know who is a member of the Tavern League or not. Q. You don't know anyone who is a member of the Tavern League? A. I don't know what their list is. I don't know who is in the Tavern League. Q. Are you friends with anyone that you know to be a member of the Tavern League? A. I don't know who is a member of the Tavern League. Q. Okay. Do you know if Doug Nicholson is a member of the Tavern League? A. I have no idea. Q. Do you know if Joey LeGath is a member of the Tavern League? A. I have no idea. Q. You're saying you don't know a single member of the
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Q. I was trying to short circuit it by limiting it to Tavern League members, so that's not working. Sorry. A. I apologize, but I just went through three campaigns. We had our -- I think we had a fundraiser at Olde Madrid. I know we had our primary election night party there, but I thought we had a fundraiser there as well. Q. Who owns Olde Madrid? A. That is owned by Natalie and Manny. I may have had a fundraiser at Infusino's on Rapids Drive. I believe we had our second year announcement there. And I think we had a fundraiser at Ivanhoe, and I think that was part of the 2009 election. It may be the -may be the 2011, but I'm not sure. Q. Any others that you can think of in 2009? A. Not offhand, no. Q. Natalie and Manny, what's their last name? A. (No response.) Q. You referenced them as being the owners of Olde Madrid. A. Yeah, Manny, boy, now you got me tongue tied. I'll come up with Manny's name in a minute. Q. Okay. Who owns Infusino's or who did in 2009? A. I think it's Emelia Infusino. Q. And who owns the Ivanhoe?
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Tavern League? A. If you would go through the list, I could tell you if I know them or not. Q. As you sit here today without the list in front of you, are you aware of any person in the City of Racine who is a member of the Tavern League? A. I have no idea currently if they are or not. Q. Are you aware of any occasions where a member of the Tavern League hosted a fundraising event for you? A. Like whom? Q. Again, I'm asking you, are you aware of any occasions where any member of the Tavern League at any time hosted a fundraising event for you? A. I don't know if anyone who hosted a fundraising event for me was a member of the Tavern League or not. So you'd have to tell me specifically who you're talking about. Q. Well, we'll go through all of the fundraisers then. A. Okay. Q. So why don't you tell me all the fundraisers that were thrown for you in 2009 if you remember. Every one you remember. A. In 2009. You're asking me to remember three campaigns worth of fundraisers, so I'm doing my best to recall.
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A. Doug Nicholson. Q. In 2011 you said you may have also had a fundraising event at the Ivanhoe? A. I may have, but I think I had four, I think I had four fundraisers. I think I had potentially had a fundraiser at Infusino's as well. I had one out at the pizza place on Durand Avenue. Q. This is in 2011? A. I believe it was in 2011. Q. Okay. A. I had one in Madison. I've had a lot of fundraisers, so I'm trying to think of which years, which ones. There were a lot of them. Q. How about 2015, do you remember any of them? That was pretty recently. A. Yeah. Where did we hold -- where did we hold the fundraisers for 2015. We had one in Madison and one in Milwaukee. Down here we had Dewey's, we went there. Q. Who owns Dewey's? A. I don't know the gentleman's full name, but he married one of the Rogers girls that I grew up with. Where else for 2015. I can't recall any others right now. Q. Are you aware of any bar owners who have contributed
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to your campaigns? Offhand? Yeah. I know that Doug has. Doug Nicholson? I know that J.J. McAuliffe has, and I know that Joey have. Those are the three in this campaign that gave. I don't think Doug gave in this campaign, but I'm pretty sure that J.J. did, and I'm pretty sure that Joey did. Q. Joey LeGath? A. Yeah. Oh, we had a fundraiser this last year out at one of the -- one of the restaurant bars on Lathrop. I forget the name of the place. Q. One of Joey's places? A. Uh-uh. It was a place we had to go to last minute because the other one couldn't do it. Q. Have any bar owners made campaign contributions to you in excess of the legal limits? A. I don't know any that have. Q. Okay. Are you denying that they have? A. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know that they have. Q. You don't know one way or the other? A. No. A. Q. A. Q. A.
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A. I don't recall ever -- I don't know if I ever did or if I didn't. Q. You don't know? Have you ever accepted illegal campaign contributions from Doug Nicholson? A. Illegal? Q. Yeah, illegal. A. No. Q. Has your campaign ever accepted illegal campaign contributions from Doug Nicholson? A. I don't know. But if they did, they would have to turn it back. Q. And if you were aware of it, you would make sure that the money was refunded or turned back? A. Yes. Q. Did you tell Zak Williams that Doug Nicholson would have a contribution for you after a fundraising event at Ivanhoe? A. I don't recall that I did or I didn't. Q. The fundraising event at the Ivanhoe in 2009, were there contributions accepted at the door? A. I don't know. Q. Did you attend? A. I was there, but I had staff that were taking the door, not the door, the people in and out. Q. Do you remember whether there was at any point in
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Q. Have you ever accepted illegal campaign contributions from any bar owners? A. Accepted what? Q. Have you ever accepted any illegal campaign contributions from bar owners? A. No. Q. Has your campaign ever accepted illegal campaign contributions from bar owners? A. I don't know that they would. Q. Do you know that they have? A. I have no idea. But if they did, they would have to turn it back. Q. Did you have a conversation with Doug Nicholson where he agreed to round up money from other bar owners for your campaign? A. I don't ever recall having that conversation. Q. Did you have a conversation with Joey LeGath where he agreed to round up money from other bar owners for your campaign? A. I don't recall ever having that conversation. Q. Did you ever direct Zak Williams to pick up donations from Doug Nicholson? A. I don't know that I did or I didn't. Are you talking about after his fundraiser? Q. At any point.
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2009 at the fundraiser at the Ivanhoe a jar on the bar labeled something to the effect of contributions for Mayor Dickert? A. I don't recall. MR. COHEN: Objection, wouldn't have been a Mayor yet. BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. You don't recall seeing a jar on the bar? A. I don't recall seeing that, no. Q. Did you send Zak Williams to the Ivanhoe in 2009 to pick up a cash contribution from Doug Nicholson? A. I don't ever recall doing that. Q. Did Doug Nicholson give Zak Williams $1,000 in a bank wrapper containing ten $100 bills as a campaign contribution? A. Not that I know of. Q. Are you denying that it occurred? MR. COHEN: Objection to the form of the question. He doesn't know. MR. ELDRIDGE: Right. THE WITNESS: I just say I don't know. BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. So it might have occurred, you just don't know about it? A. I don't know.
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Q. Are you aware that Zak Williams testified to that or -MR. COHEN: Objection. BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. -- gave a statement to that effect? A. He may have. Q. Are you aware that he did? A. If it was in that document, I may have read through that. Q. Okay. If Doug Nicholson gave Zak Williams $1,000 in a bank wrapper containing ten $100 bills as a campaign contribution, would that be illegal? MR. COHEN: Objection, assumes facts not in evidence. Also calls for a legal conclusion, incomplete hypothetical. Objection to the form of the question. Go ahead and answer subject to the objections. THE WITNESS: If he gave them something that he wasn't supposed to, it was Zak's job to make sure that he would, as I stated earlier, fix it. If it's not what he's supposed to be accepting, that's not what he's supposed to be accepting. I don't know if Doug gave it to him or not. BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. Did Zak Williams ever return to your campaign office
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that. Q. Did you ever talk about a mason's jar or a campaign jar with Doug Nicholson? A. I don't ever remember anything like that. Q. Have you read any of Doug Nicholson's deposition? A. Not that I recall. Q. Are you aware that when Doug Nicholson was asked about these series of questions I'm asking you about, he took the 5th? A. I don't know. Q. Do you know what taking the 5th means? A. I don't know the legal definition of it. Q. It means he's not answering the question because he doesn't want to incriminate himself. A. Okay. Q. Are you aware that he took the 5th when these questions were posed to him? A. I did not know that. Q. I'm going to show you what was previously marked as Exhibit 1015. It's the statement of Zachary Williams. Look at pages 53 through 55. MR. COHEN: Do you have a copy for me? MR. ELDRIDGE: I didn't bring copies of the exhibits that were already marked for his last dep. Do you want to take a break and make a copy?
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and show you a roll of $100 bills that came from Doug Nicholson? A. I never remember anything like that. Q. You don't remember Zak Williams ever coming to you with a roll of $100 bills? A. Nope. Q. Did you tell Doug Nicholson to pretend that his -Strike that. Did you ever tell Doug Nicholson to give Zak Williams a campaign contribution in cash and pretend that it came from a jar on his bar? A. I don't ever recall asking or doing anything like that. Q. Did you ever suggest to Doug Williams that he put a jar on the -- on his bar at the Ivanhoe? A. Who is Doug Williams? Q. I'm sorry. He was a famous quarterback. A. He used to be, Tampa Bay. Q. Actually won the Super Bowl for Washington. A. That's true. Q. Did you ever tell Doug -A. He was MVP, too. Q. Did you ever tell Doug Nicholson to put a jar or to pretend to put a jar on his bar? A. I don't believe I ever asked him to do anything like
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MR. COHEN: You didn't show that to him at his last dep, did you? MR. ELDRIDGE: I did. It's marked. MR. COHEN: Brian, I don't have any recollection of you marking that, and I don't have it. MR. ELDRIDGE: Well, mine says 1015 on it, my copy, and so there is an actual exhibit sticker on the one I just gave to the witness. As a matter of fact, I could represent to you that I printed it out online yesterday. MR. COHEN: That you what? MR. ELDRIDGE: I printed it out online from the marked exhibits that came through. Want to take a break and copy it? MR. COHEN: Well, I guess it depends on how much you're going to ask him about that. MR. ELDRIDGE: I'm going to ask him to read it and see if it refreshes his recollection in terms of certain events. MR. COHEN: Okay. Then I should have a copy of it. MR. ELDRIDGE: Okay. THE VIDEO OPERATOR: Off the record at 2:12 p.m.
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(Recess taken.) THE VIDEO OPERATOR: Back on the record, 2:18 p.m. BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. Mayor Dickert, I hand you Exhibit 1015 which is the statement of Zak Williams. I think you testified earlier that you read portions of that. And I just went through a series of questions with you concerning Doug Nicholson and an alleged campaign contribution. And what I'd like to do is take you through some portions of Zak Williams' statement and see if that does anything to refresh your recollection. So why don't you read page 53, and it really starts at line 22 through page 55 line 12. Feel free to read the whole thing if you want. MR. COHEN: I'll have a standing objection to the use of an unsworn statement not subject to cross-examination to refresh someone's recollection. THE WITNESS: So -MR. ELDRIDGE: What about that ham sandwich thing, can't you refresh someone's recollection with a ham sandwich? Isn't that the saying? THE WITNESS: So 53 through what?
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A. No. As I stated earlier, I don't ever remember doing that. Q. Okay. Are you denying that you did that or you don't remember? A. I don't remember ever doing that. Q. Okay. Now, according to Zak Williams, you told Doug Nicholson to explain the cash contributions by saying there was a jar on his bar at the Ivanhoe and people anonymously threw money in it. You saw that Zak Williams said that in his statement, right? A. That's what he said. Q. Okay. Did you tell Doug Nicholson to explain the cash contributions by saying people just threw money into a jar? A. I don't ever remember saying that, no. Q. Are you denying that you said it? A. I don't ever remember saying that, no. Q. If you turn to pages 62 through 64. Please take a look through those, and I'll have a couple of questions for you. A. All pages? Q. 62 line 10 through 64 line 15. (Witness peruses document.) A. To 64 you said? Q. Yeah.
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MR. ELDRIDGE: You know that saying, right? MR. COHEN: I must have missed that day that was -BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. 53 line 22 through 55 line 12. A. Okay. (Witness peruses document.) Q. Just let me know when you're done reading it. (Witness peruses document.) A. Okay. Q. According to Zak Williams you instructed him to go to get a campaign contribution from Doug Nicholson. Did you read that in his statement? MR. COHEN: Objection, assumes facts not in evidence. Standing objection. MR. ELDRIDGE: That's fine. You can have a standing objection. MR. COHEN: Go ahead. THE WITNESS: That's what it states in here. BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. Okay. And does that refresh your recollection as to whether or not you did direct Zak Williams to go get a cash contribution from Doug Nicholson?
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A. Okay. Q. All right. So Zak Williams said in his statement that he brought the roll of cash back to the office and presented it to you and said to you, quote: What the fuck is this, end quote. You read his statement to that effect, right? A. According to what he said. Q. Okay. Is that true? Did Zak Williams show you a bank roll of cash that he received from Doug Nicholson, walk up to you and say what the fuck is this? A. No. Q. He did not? A. Nope. Q. So you're denying that? A. I am. Q. Do you recall telling -- well, let me strike that. Zak Williams further said in his statement that when he showed you a roll of cash, you told him that you would have to convert it into anonymous donations. You read his statement to that effect? A. I read what he said. Q. Okay. And did you in fact tell Zak Williams that he would need to report the cash as anonymous
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contributions? No. You're denying that? I am. Is Zak Williams lying? According to this statement he is. Okay. Is Zak Williams a party in this case? I believe so. He's a plaintiff? I don't know, is he a party in this case? He's not. Zak Williams is not a party in this case. Okay. Does Zak Williams have an agenda against you? I think it's fairly obvious that he does. What's fairly obvious about it? I think it's fairly clear that after Zak Williams was unable to obtain an agreement with Tommy Tousis, that he has a personal vendetta. Q. What does that have to you with you? Why would he have a personal vendetta against you? A. Maybe you can tell me that. Q. You understand that when Zak Williams was making statements to the effect that he accepted illegal campaign contributions, that could potentially subject him to prosecution? A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A.
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your campaign accepted a contribution from someone who did not actually donate the money? A. I'm not familiar with any. Q. Did Joey LeGath ever come by your campaign office in 2009 with envelopes containing $1,000 bills? A. Not that I know of. Q. Did any bar owners ever come by -- did I say $1,000 bills? Let me withdraw the question. Did Joey LeGath ever come by your campaign office with envelopes containing $100 bills? A. I don't recall ever seeing Joey LeGath in the office in the 2009 campaign. Q. Okay. So the answer to my question is -A. No. Q. Did any bar owners from the City of Racine ever come by your campaign office with envelopes containing $100 bills? A. I don't know that anyone ever did that. Q. Okay. Did Zak Williams ever tell you that anyone did that? A. No. Q. Zak Williams never told you that Joey LeGath came by with an envelope containing $100 bills? A. No. Q. He never told you that any bar owners came by with
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A. Well, actually, this whole paragraph would have been illegal under his efforts as a campaign finance chair. Q. Which paragraph are you referring to, page what? A. Page 64 paragraph number starting 7 through 15. His job as a campaign finance chair as I stated earlier was to take care and do the right things with the cash or the contributions coming in as he knows the limits. Q. So you acknowledge that Zak Williams made a statement that would be detrimental to his interest? A. You mean that he didn't do what he was supposed to do. Q. And you're calling and you're saying that his statements are untruthful? A. Yes, I am. Q. Did Zak Williams ever tell you that he was going to spread the money that he received from Doug Nicholson around to Doug, Doug's wife and other members? A. No. Q. Did you ever assign a campaign contribution to someone who did not actually donate that money? A. I wouldn't do that. That would -- no, I don't know that I ever have. Q. Have you ever been made aware of an instance where
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envelopes containing $100 bills? A. Correct. Q. Why don't you take a look at pages 70 through 73 of Zak Williams' statement, Exhibit 1015, please. A. 70 to 73? Q. Yeah. I can give you line numbers, but I think it's 70 line 2 to 73 line 16. (Witness peruses document.) A. Okay. Q. Okay. You're chuckling as you're reading that. What are you laughing at? A. Well, your first inconsistency is on page 70 where he states that this was happening after the primary election, calls me Mayor Dickert. I'm not Mayor yet, so he can't call me Mayor Dickert. And then he says it was prior to the primary. The second one is that he consistently breaks the law as a finance chair. Q. And accuses you of doing the same. A. No, actually, he breaks the law because he accepts a series of contributions here that he can't accept. Q. So -A. And then does nothing about it. Q. So you are admitting that Zak Williams indeed accepted these contributions?
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MR. COHEN: Objection, misstates his testimony, assumes facts not in evidence. THE WITNESS: That's what he just said. MR. ELDRIDGE: Okay. BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. And do you acknowledge that he did in fact accept these contributions? MR. COHEN: Objection, foundation. THE WITNESS: I have no idea, but he's saying that he did. BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. Well, I mean he explains in his statement that you knew about it. A. Well, I didn't. Q. Okay. So it's your testimony is only -- is that Zak Williams accepted these contributions but that you didn't know about it? A. Correct. MR. COHEN: Objection, misstates his testimony. BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. So you do in fact acknowledge that Zak Williams accepted illegal campaign contributions? A. I believe he's stating it right here. Q. You just deny knowing about it?
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A. Absolutely because he also states that -- that I would have bar owners bringing in money. The Tavern League endorsed Bob Turner and supported him in this campaign. Why would bar owners be supporting me if you're saying that all these people are from the Tavern League. Q. I didn't say that. A. You stated that all these people are from the Tavern League. I don't know how they would be supporting me and that I would know that a whole series of bar owners would be coming in if they endorsed Bob Turner, my opponent. Q. Zak Williams said in his statement that he told you on each occasion that he received an envelope from the bar owners, and Joey LeGath told you how he was going to spread it out as he did with Doug Nicholson and that you had no problem with that. A. Zak lied. Q. Zak lied? A. Yes. Q. Okay. Is it true that after the primary election in April of 2009 you told Zak Williams to call Doug Nicholson to get another $1,000? A. I never said that. Q. Did Zak Williams go to the Ivanhoe after the primary
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A. Correct. Q. Well, Zak Williams in his statement said that there were occasions where Joey LeGath and others dropped off envelopes of $100 bills and told him to give it to your campaign. You saw that statement, right? A. Correct. Q. Did that happen? A. Not that I know of. Q. Okay. Zak Williams said in his statement that you asked him whether the bar owners had showed up with the money. Did you ever ask him that question? A. No. Q. Zak Williams said in his statement that he spread the money received from Joey LeGath and the other bar owners out just like he did with the money received from Doug Nicholson and that you knew about it, is that true or not? A. That's false. Q. You're denying any knowledge that Zak Williams received illegal campaign contributions from Joey LeGath and other bar owners? A. State the question again. Q. You're denying any knowledge that Zak Williams received illegal campaign contributions from Joey LeGath or other bar owners?
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election in April of 2009 and get $1,000 from Doug Nicholson in bank wrapped $100 bills? A. Not that I know of. Q. Did Zak Williams tell you that he got $1,000 in April of 2009 from Doug Nicholson? A. Not that I know of. Q. You don't know if he told you that or not? A. I don't recall if he did, but I don't remember him ever saying that. Q. Were you aware that Zak Williams took the $1,000 in bank wrapped $100 bills he received from Doug Nicholson in April of 2009 and spread it out among various people as campaign contributions? MR. COHEN: Objection, assumes facts not in evidence, form of the question. Go ahead. THE WITNESS: If he did, he did it illegally. BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. And if you knew about it, it would be illegal, too, right? A. If I knew about it, I would have told him to make sure that he corrected it. Q. And Doug Nicholson is your friend? A. He is. Q. Right. So if Doug Nicholson had made a campaign
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contribution in the amount of $1,000 in crisp $100 bills with a bank wrapper on it, don't you think you would know about it? A. That's Zak's job, No. 1. But No. 2, I would ask him to have them write out checks to my campaign. Q. Right. Don't you think if Doug Nicholson in fact gave a contribution of $1,000 in crisp $100 bills, you would know about it? MR. COHEN: Objection to the form of the question. Go ahead and answer him again. THE WITNESS: No, I don't know that I would know about it. BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. You don't think he would tell you? A. I would hope he would so that I could correct him. Q. Did you ever ask Doug Nicholson why he pled the 5th when asked these questions? A. No. Q. Why don't you take a look at pages 75 through 77 of Zak Williams' statement. (Witness peruses document.) A. To 77 you said? Q. I did. Have you finished? A. Yeah. Q. You saw that Zak Williams said in his statement that
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Q. And Zak is lying? A. Yes. Q. You saw earlier that Zak said in his statement that he was spreading the money around between Doug Nicholson, Doug Nicholson's wife and other individuals. Do you recall him saying that? A. I don't know if I read that in here. Q. I'll show it to you. Page 64, line 7 through 15. Just so you have some reference. A. Okay. Q. Do you recall him now that you see that he said that? A. He said that. Q. Okay. I'm going to show you Exhibit 243. MR. ELDRIDGE: I do have a copy for you, Michael. BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. Can you identify Exhibit 243 for the record, please? A. This is the fall filing 2009. May 1st. Q. This is a campaign finance report? A. Correct. Q. Made on behalf of John Dickert for Mayor? A. Yup. Q. Signed by Mary Jerger who is your treasurer? A. Correct. Q. If you flip to the fourth page of this exhibit, 11
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you pulled him aside after the primary and told him to call Doug Nicholson and see if you could get another $1,000 out of him. Did you do that? A. No. Q. You're denying that? A. Yes. Q. Zak Williams said that he went to the Ivanhoe, and Doug Williams (sic) in fact gave him another $1,000 in bank wrapped $100 bills. Are you aware of that happening? A. No. Q. Do you deny that that happened? A. I don't know what happened with Zak and Doug, but I don't recall or know anything about that. Q. Zak also said in his statement that after he told you about the $1,000 received from Nicholson, you told him, quote, good, end quote. Is that true? A. I don't remember ever saying that to Zak or him ever showing me another $1,000. Q. He might have showed you $1,000 received from Nicholson, you just don't remember? A. I don't recall him ever showing me $1,000. Q. Okay. So you're denying that he showed you $1,000? A. Yes.
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lines down, you see that on April 7th, 2009 there are reported contributions from Doug and Sarah Nicholson? A. Okay. Q. Am I correct? A. That's what it shows. Q. Okay. And is Sarah Doug's wife? A. Yes. Q. And columns to the far right show the purported contribution and then what they have contributed thus far that year? A. Year-to-date, correct. Q. And it shows as of April 7th, 2009 Doug Nicholson made a $50 contribution and which put him up to $400 year-to-date? A. Okay. Q. Right? A. That's what it states. Q. Okay. And on the same date Sarah Nicholson made a $50 contribution which put her up to $250? A. That's what it states. Q. If you go about 10 lines down, there are cash or -Strike that. There are contributions from both Doug and Sarah Nicholson again, a mere three days later? A. Okay.
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Q. All right. And is that right, on April 10th? A. Correct. Q. All right. And Doug Nicholson again makes a $50 contribution, right? A. Yup. Q. As does Sarah? A. Yup. Q. And after Doug Nicholson's $50, his year-to-date continues to be $400? A. Yeah. That should have been $450. Sarah should have been $300. Q. So that's a mistake found in your sworn campaign contribution finance statement? A. If that's the numbers. We have to go back and check. Q. And Sarah's $50 donation, again, did not change the ticker on her year-to-date. That's another mistake, right? A. It may have been. I have to go back and check. Q. Are you aware of Doug and Sarah Nicholson ever making contributions by way of check? A. I wouldn't know. Q. What's that? A. I wouldn't know. Q. Okay. You would be able to pull the checks, right? A. If they have them, yeah.
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Q. That he was spreading the money out between Doug and his wife and others? MR. COHEN: Objection to the form of the question. THE WITNESS: Or they simply decided to give $50 at a time. BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. What do you think is more likely? MR. COHEN: Objection to the form of the question. THE WITNESS: I don't know. BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. Exhibit 244 for you, sir. Could you identify Exhibit 244 for us, please? A. This is the July 20th report. Q. This is a campaign finance report -A. Correct. Q. -- on behalf of John Dickert for Mayor? A. Um-hum. Q. Yes? A. Yes. Q. Signed by Mary Jerger? A. Correct. Q. Who is your treasurer, true? A. Correct.
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Q. Are you required to keep the checks? A. I don't know. Q. Okay. If you flip to the next page, page 5. The second line down shows -- second and third lines down show, again, $50 contributions from Doug and Sarah Nicholson, yes? A. That's what it states. Q. And again, the year-to-date is not updated. It continues to remain at $400 for Doug and $250 for Sarah, true? A. That's what it states, yup. Q. According to campaign finance reports submitted on your behalf, Doug Nicholson and Sarah Nicholson made $50 contributions on April 7th, April 10th and April 13th? A. According to the report, yes. Q. And do you believe that that's true? A. That's what it states. Q. Why would they make three $50 campaign contributions within a period of six days? A. I don't know. Q. Isn't this consistent with Zak Williams' statement? MR. COHEN: Objection to the form of the question. BY MR. ELDRIDGE:
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Q. If you flip to the second page on this exhibit. A. Um-hum. Q. You'll see about 10 lines down there are additional contributions from Doug and Sarah Nicholson, see what I'm referring to? A. Um-hum. Q. Yes? A. Yes, I do. Q. On April 23rd, 2009 Doug Nicholson apparently donated another $50, yes? A. That's what it states. Q. And Sarah Nicholson donated $50 as well on the same day? A. Correct. Q. Flip the page. If you go to about two-thirds of the way down you'll see Doug and Sarah's name show up again, do you see what I'm referring to? MR. COHEN: Date, please? MR. ELDRIDGE: April 27th, 2009. THE WITNESS: Yup. BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. For purposes of the record, it's the third page on Exhibit 244, do you see that? A. Yes. Q. And yet again Doug makes a $50 donation, yes?
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A. Q. A. Q. A. Q.
Correct. His year-to-date stays the same, right? Yeah, it does. It's another mistake? Yup. And Sarah Nicholson makes a $50 donation on the same day, yes? A. Correct. Q. And, again, her year-to-date stays the same? A. Correct. But you're making a mistake in the sense that Mary may have compiled, because when you last left Doug Nicholson and Sarah on this page, they were at $400. The last report that you gave me, they were at $400 and 250. The two locations here she goes up and post dates them all to the total amount which is $500 and $450. So she may have actually just put the final amount as she recorded it. You'll have to ask her. Q. I made that mistake? A. I'm just stating, pointing out here, that she may have just taken the total amounts. So you'll have to ask her about that. Q. We've reviewed $50 campaign contributions, identical $50 campaign contributions from Doug and Sarah Nicholson on April 7th, April 10th, April 13th, April
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A. As we stated earlier, after his project did not go through on Washington Avenue, I believe so. Q. Okay. So just to be clear, so far during the two sittings of your deposition I think you've testified that Mr. Tousis has an agenda against you, Mr. Williams has an agenda against you, Ms. Penny Sharp has an agenda against you and Mr. Eric Marcus has an agenda against you. Is that what you believe? A. I don't know if I specifically used the phrases with Ms. Sharp or Mr. Marcus, but if I did, then I did. But yes, I think it's fairly obvious with Mr. Tousis and Mr. Williams. Q. Well, again, I don't see what's fairly obvious about it. How is it fairly obvious? A. Well, the litany of things that they have been doing including working on every campaign against me, attacking myself and other members because of the Tousis development not going forward. Some of the what I would call not very nice emails between Mr. Tousis and Mr. Williams show a little bit of anger. Q. Did you kill the -- Tommy Tousis's West Racine deal? A. I don't have that authority. Q. Were you involved in the decision to shut it down? A. It was a variety of people involved in the decision, but it was not to shut it down.
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23rd and April 27th in 2009, true? A. That's correct. Q. Doesn't that seem to be consistent with Zak Williams' statement that he was spreading the money out? MR. COHEN: Objection to the form of the question. BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. Among Doug, Doug's wife and others? A. If he was, he was doing it illegally. Q. And without your knowledge? A. Correct. Q. Because you would never approve that? A. Correct. Q. Do you know who Thomas Tousis is? A. I do. Q. Do you know him personally? A. I do. Q. Who is Tom Tousis? A. Currently I believe he's the owner of the BP on Douglas and Goold. Q. How long have you known him? A. I probably met Tommy when he was fairly young when his father ran a breakfast place at the same location. Q. Does Mr. Tousis have an agenda against you?
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Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q.
Were you one of the decision makers? No, that actually goes through a committee. Were you on the committee? No, I don't sit on that committee. Did you attempt to influence the committee? No. Did you give an opinion to the committee in terms of what should happen with this West Racine deal? A. I gave an opinion when the West Racine deal did not meet the TIF requirement, that it would be difficult, if not impossible, for us to support it. Q. So you did in fact tell the committee that the City should not support Tom Tousis's West Racine deal? A. No, I said when the project does not meet the TIF requirement, that it's difficult for us to support it. I don't have unilateral authority over it. Q. And you think because Tom Tousis didn't get his West Racine deal, that he's making up fictitious and fabricating statements about you? A. I think Tom Tousis is very angry about it and has shown that since. Q. Okay. And you think that as a result of his anger, he's fabricating statements about you and making untrue statements under oath? MR. COHEN: I think he just told you that.
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BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. Is that what you believe? A. I just said, Mr. Tousis is angry and has been showing that since. Q. Okay. And Penny Sharp makes untrue statements under oath according to you? A. Yes, she does. Q. And Eric Marcus makes untrue statements under oath according to you? A. I don't know that I've read all of Mr. Marcus's statements to know the difference. Q. Well, we went through some of his testimony last time. A. Yes. Q. And you think that he was making untrue statements under oath, right? A. Yes. Q. Okay. And now we'll get to Tommy Tousis, and we'll see if he was, too. So have you ever solicited campaign contributions from Mr. Tousis? A. I may have asked Tommy to support my campaign. Q. Okay. And do you remember when you may have asked him to support your campaign? A. No. Q. Did you ever make a trip to his gas station and ask
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Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Q.
Why did you go there? He asked me to come over and take a look at it. Okay. And for what particular reason? I was working in real estate at the time. Did you have any role in government at the time? No. But your hat was in the ring for Mayor? Correct. And when you went over to his gas station to talk about the West Racine project, did you make any overtures to him about donating to your campaign? A. I don't remember if I did at that time. I would have never done it while talking about the project. Q. Why is that? A. Because you can't blend the two. Q. So if -- you admit that you talked about the project at his gas station, right? A. Yes. Q. Okay. So, therefore, given that, you deny eliciting campaign contributions during his visits -- during your visit to his gas station? A. I would have not blended the two. Q. Okay. Did you ever talk to Mr. Tousis about the West Racine project in his home? A. I don't recall ever doing that.
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him for a campaign contribution? A. I don't know if I did or not. Q. You don't remember -A. I remember going to his gas station and talking to him about the project. Q. You do? A. Yeah. Q. And when was that? A. Prior to the campaign. Q. And which campaign is this? A. I mean prior to my being elected as Mayor. Q. Okay. So this is in 2009? A. Right. Q. Before April of 2009? A. Correct. Q. Or before May of 2009? Yes? A. Correct. Q. How many times did you go to the gas station and talk about the project? A. I remember one time. Q. And this is, again, the West Racine project? A. Correct. He showed me a artist rendering of the project. Q. Okay. A drawing of some sort? A. Yeah.
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Q. A. Q. A. Q.
Did you ever talk to Tom Tousis in your home? I don't recall doing that either. You don't remember him ever being in your house? No. So he shouldn't be able to describe the interior of your house? A. Well, we've had a lot of parties there. I don't know if he ever stopped by at one. Q. And you don't remember -A. Which house? Q. -- being in his house? A. No, which one of my houses? Q. At some point you lived fairly close to Tom Tousis? A. Which house? Q. I don't know. I think what you're trying to tell me is you have multiple houses. A. I'm asking you if you're going to tell me he's going to describe one of my houses, I would like to know which one. Q. How many houses do you have? A. I'd like to know which one. Q. How many houses do you have? A. It's irrelevant. How many houses -Q. You won't answer that question? A. Which house did he say he knows the inside of?
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Q. Have you ever lived close to him? A. Proximity wise, I don't know. Which one? Q. Do you know whether you've ever lived close to Tom Tousis? A. I may have. Which one is he talking about? Q. How many houses in Racine do you own? MR. COHEN: Presently? MR. ELDRIDGE: No. BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. In 2009. A. I owned one. Q. You owned one. Okay. And was that close to Tom Tousis? A. I don't believe so. Q. Okay. Was Tom Tousis ever in your house in 2009? A. Not that I recall. Q. Were you ever in Tom Tousis's house in 2009? A. Not that I recall. Q. Is it true that you elicited a bribe from Mr. Tousis? A. No, it's not true. Q. In 2010 did you buy a different house? A. It was either 2009 or 2010. No, wait, no. 2010 I did not buy a new house. Q. So you were living in the same house in 2009 as you were in 2010?
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Q. Was it in person or was it over the telephone? A. I don't recall. Q. How much did you ask Tom Tousis to donate to your campaign? A. I don't recall. Any time I usually asked somebody, I always asked them if they could max out. Q. Meaning what? A. Can you give the full amount. Q. And in 2009 that was $800? A. I believe roughly around there, yeah. Q. And is it your belief that you asked Tom Tousis to max out in 2009? A. I don't know. I may have. But if I had asked him to help out or donate, that's usually where you start. You work your way down. Q. Did you tell Zak Williams to go to Tom Tousis's gas station and pick up a campaign contribution from him? A. I don't ever recall that happening. Q. Are you denying it? A. No, I said I don't recall it happening. Q. Okay. Did Zak Williams tell you that Tom Tousis gave him a mason's jar with your name on it full of cash? A. Did Zak Williams tell me that? Q. Yeah. A. No.
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A. Correct. Q. Okay. So then I'm going to ask you the same questions. In 2010 did you live close to Tom Tousis? A. 2010 I believe Tommy lived close, but I don't know that he owned the house. Q. Okay. But he lived close to you in 2010? A. I believe he did. Q. And were you ever in that whatever house Tom lived in in 2010 that was close to you? A. I don't believe I was ever in the house. Q. And was Tom ever in your house in 2010 that you remember? A. I don't recall. Q. You never talked about the West Racine project in your house in 2010 with Tom Tousis? A. I talked with Tom about the West Racine project a couple times. I don't recall where they were. Q. You told us about one time which was in the gas station. What were the other times? A. I don't recall. Q. No recollection? A. No. Q. When you asked Tom for a campaign contribution, where was it? Where were you? A. I don't recall.
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Q. Did Zak Williams ever show you a mason's jar full of cash from Tom Tousis? A. No. Q. Did you tell Zak Williams that Tom Tousis was going to give you the same kind of contribution as Doug Nicholson did? A. No. Q. Did Zak Williams tell you that after he received Tom Tousis's campaign contribution, that he ran out of people to spread the cash around to? A. No. Q. Did Zak Williams tell you that he used some of the cash given to him by Tom Tousis to pay for campaign items? A. I don't remember him ever saying anything about it. Q. Okay. MR. ELDRIDGE: I'm going to mark as Exhibit 1573 -(Exhibit 1573 marked.) BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. -- Volume 1 of the deposition of Tom Tousis. Actually, before I do that, if you would take a look back at Zak Williams' statement. Why don't you read pages 78 through 88. Let me know when you're done. MR. COHEN: You want him to read 10 pages?
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MR. ELDRIDGE: Yeah. (Witness peruses document.) THE VIDEO OPERATOR: Off the record, p.m. (Discussion off the record.) THE VIDEO OPERATOR: Back on the record at 3:13 p.m. BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. Very good. Mr. Dickert, you just read a series of 10 pages out of Zak Williams' statement, true? A. Correct. Q. Okay. And within those 10 pages Zak summarizes events surrounding a cash contribution made by Tommy Tousis? A. That's what he states. MR. COHEN: Same standing objection. MR. ELDRIDGE: Yeah. BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. And does reading Zak Williams' statement concerning the cash contribution from Tom Tousis refresh your recollection at all in terms of these events? A. No. But if he did all this, he, again, broke the law. Q. Okay. And if he in fact told you about it and you did nothing about it, you would have broken the law,
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was funny. Did that happen? A. No, it did not. Q. Did he ever tell you that? A. No, he did not because I would have told him that that would be illegal. Q. And you would never do anything illegal? A. I would never do this, and I would not do anything illegal. Q. Let's take a look at Tom Tousis's deposition. I think I already gave it to you. It's marked as Deposition Exhibit 1573. We can go off the record in a second just to save space. But I want you to take a look at pages 62 to 72, and this will be the last reading exercise of the day. A. Say again, 62 to 72? Q. Correct. A. Again there is a bunch of different pages. Is it the little pages that you're talking about, the little boxes? Q. Yeah, the little box pages have -A. It's these guys, 62 to 72? Q. Correct. A. Okay. MR. ELDRIDGE: We can go off the record. THE VIDEO OPERATOR: Off the record,
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too, correct? MR. COHEN: Objection, calls for a legal conclusion, assumes facts not in evidence. THE WITNESS: He never told me about it. BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. So Zak Williams said in his statement that you told him to go pick up money from Tom Tousis. Did you do that? A. I don't recall ever telling him to pick up money from Tom Tousis. I may have had him call, but I don't recall him ever doing this. Q. Okay. And by "doing this," you mean going to Tom Tousis's gas station to pick up a jar of cash? A. Correct. Q. Zak Williams said in his statement that when he returned from Tom Tousis's gas station, he showed you the jar of cash. Did he in fact do so? A. That didn't happen. Q. That did not happen? A. Correct. Q. Zak Williams is lying? A. Yes. Q. And you saw that Zak Williams said in his statement that he told you that he ran out of people to spread the contributions out onto and that you thought it
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p.m. (Recess taken.) THE VIDEO OPERATOR: We're back on the record, 3:24 p.m. BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. You've now had an opportunity to review a portion of Tom Tousis's deposition transcript where he describes a cash contribution made to you? A. That's what he says. Q. Okay. And Tom Tousis testified that you elicited a cash campaign contribution from him? MR. COHEN: Objection, misstates the testimony. BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. Didn't he testify to that? A. Whatever you're reading in here. Q. Did you elicit a cash contribution from Mr. Tousis? A. No. Q. Mr. Tousis testified that you gave him a mason's jar with a sticker, John Dickert for Mayor on it, did you see that testimony? A. I did. Q. And did you in fact give Mr. Tousis a mason's jar with a sticker, John Dickert for Mayor on it? A. No.
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Q. Tom Tousis testified that after he stuffed the jar with money, Zak Williams came by the gas station to pick it up, did you see that testimony? A. That's what he said. Q. And are you aware of that occurring? A. No. Q. Tom Tousis testified that you made it very clear to him that his contribution was not going to be reported, did you read that testimony? A. I read the testimony. Q. Is that true? Did you make it clear to Mr. Tom Tousis that his contribution was not going to be reported? A. No. Q. Is Mr. Tousis lying about such matters? A. Yes, including the testimony earlier on the house. Q. Pardon me? A. You asked me to read page 62, correct? Q. Yeah. A. He stated that I did something as a realtor that was illegal and impossible to do. Q. That's about the real estate deal that you were involved in concerning a house? A. Correct. Q. And Mr. Tousis was the builder?
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Q. You don't know because you didn't review them in preparation for today? A. Correct. Q. Or ever really? A. For the most part. Q. You just relied upon everyone else to do your job? A. To do their job. MR. COHEN: Objection, assumes facts not in evidence, also calls for a legal conclusion. BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. Did you tell Tom Tousis that you were broke, you had just thrown all your money into the campaign and you needed money to do radio advertising, otherwise you were going to lose and he was never going to get his West Racine project done? A. Never told him that. Q. Were you broke in between the primary and the election in 2009? A. We were raising money consistently. Q. Were you broke? A. We were raising money consistently. I don't know how much we had in the account. Q. So there would be no reason for you to take out loans to finance your campaign? A. We may.
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A. I don't know what his relationship was then, but it's impossible for me to do what he said I was able to do. Q. Okay. A. So is he lying? Yes. Q. Okay. Would you agree that Mr. Tousis's description about the campaign contribution was consistent with Zak Williams'? MR. COHEN: Objection to the form of the question. THE WITNESS: I believe you have two pathological liars. Outside of that -BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. They are two pathological liars? A. Testimony is pretty evident of that. Q. Or they're truthful and someone else is lying? A. No. MR. COHEN: Objection, argumentative. THE WITNESS: I think they're lying. BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. I know what you think. Did you receive any donations or contributions from Tom Tousis in 2009? A. I don't know. Q. Were any reported in your campaign finance reports? A. I don't know.
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Q. Well, did you -- did the campaign need money in between the primary and the special election in 2009 for purposes of advertising? A. The campaign always needs money for advertising. Q. Okay. Were you in a desperate situation to get money for advertising in between the primary and the special election in 2009? A. I don't know that we were in a desperate situation. Q. Do you remember ever telling Tom Tousis that you were broke and you needed money ASAP? A. No. Q. The primary election in 2009 was the first week of April, right? A. I don't recall the exact date. I think it was during the April election. I think the primary was during the April election. Q. And the general election was in May of 2009, true? A. Correct. Q. There was about 30 days between the election, primary and general? A. I believe so roughly. Q. Okay. (Exhibit 1574 marked.) BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. I'm going to show you what I've marked as Deposition
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Exhibit 1574. Let me know when you've had a chance to review it. (Witness peruses document.) A. Okay. Q. Okay. So this is -- first of all, have you ever seen Exhibit 1574 before? A. I believe I may have seen this, yes. Q. When would you have seen it? A. In conversation with my attorney. Q. Very good. Do you remember ever receiving or seeing this email in April of 2009 or thereabouts? A. No, and I don't believe that I'm listed on the email. Q. Okay. On Wednesday, April 22nd, 2009 Greg Bach apparently sent an email to Zak Williams, right? A. That's what it states, yes. Q. Greg Bach was what in April -A. Campaign manager. Q. He was your campaign manager? A. Correct. Q. And Greg Bach tells Zak Williams to call Tom Tousis and then provides that phone number, right? A. Yes. Q. And Greg Bach says to Zak Williams quote: I was giving this to give you -- to give to you so that is all I know, end quote.
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out to Tom Tousis? A. I don't know. Ask him. Q. Well, I asked you if you had instructed Greg to provide this information to Zak Williams, and you said I don't know, I might have, right? A. I don't know if I did or not. Q. Well -A. You'll have to ask Greg. Q. I'm asking you. If you did instruct Greg to provide Tom Tousis's information to Zak Williams, why would you have done so? A. I don't know that I would have. I'm not sure if this came from me or if it came from Greg or if it came from a call. Q. Well, were you trying to -A. You're assuming. Q. I'm putting facts together. Were you trying to elicit a campaign contribution from Zak Williams on or about April 22nd or 23rd of 2009? A. Why would I ask Zak Williams for a campaign contribution. MR. COHEN: Objection to the form. BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. Thank you for the clarification. Were you attempting to elicit a campaign contribution from Tom Tousis on
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Do you see that? A. I do. Q. Did you tell Greg Bach to tell Zak Williams to call Tom Tousis on or about April 22nd of 2009? A. I don't know. I may have, but I don't know. Q. Zak Williams responds to Greg Bach that he spoke to Tom Tousis that same day and was picking something up from him the next day. Do you see what I'm referring to? A. Yes. Q. And is it true that Zak Williams in fact picked up something from Tom Tousis on or about April 23rd, 2009? MR. COHEN: Objection, foundation. THE WITNESS: I don't know. BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. Well, what would -- if you did in fact tell Greg Bach to reach out to Tom Tousis in -- on April 22nd of 2009, what would have been the purpose? A. I don't know. Q. Why would you have Zak Williams reach out to Tom Tousis? A. Greg is actually asking him to reach out to Tom Tousis. Q. Okay. Why would Greg be asking Zak Williams to reach
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or about April 22nd or April 23rd of 2009? A. I don't know because I don't know the genesis of this email. Q. Is it possible that you were trying to elicit a campaign contribution from Tom Tousis during that timeframe? MR. COHEN: Objection to the form of the question. Go ahead and answer. THE WITNESS: I don't know because I don't know the genesis of this email. BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. Is it true that this email and the dates of the email are consistent with Zak Williams' statement that you instructed him to go to Tom Tousis's gas station and pick up a campaign contribution from him? MR. COHEN: Objection to the form of the question. Go ahead and answer. THE WITNESS: I don't know because I don't know the genesis of this email. BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. Isn't this email consistent with the statements of both Tom Tousis and Zak Williams that after you had spoke to Tom Tousis, Zak Williams showed up within a matter of hours or the next day to obtain the cash contribution?
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A. I don't know. MR. COHEN: Objection to the form of the question, assumes facts not in evidence. BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. You don't think that's consistent with their testimony? A. I don't know the genesis of this email. Q. April 22nd of 2009 was in between the primary and general elections, true? A. It was. (Exhibit 1575 marked.) BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. I'll show you Exhibit 1575. It's a short one. Let me know when you've completed reading it. (Witness peruses document.) A. Okay. Q. Have you seen this email before? A. I believe I have. Q. Okay. Again, the first email is Greg Bach's instruction for Zak to call Tom Tousis on April 22nd, right? A. Correct. Q. And Zak Williams responds to Greg Bach saying, quote: If John if there, tell him to go print the labels and go fuck himself, end quote.
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bear out that when we closed on the first session of Mayor Dickert's deposition on July 10th, I approximated that I would have two hours. I can't approximate it to the minute. And so what the Mayor has done here is he's scheduled the deposition to start at 1:30 with a 3:30 meeting, so completely and utterly narrowed my time. And I don't think it's appropriate to adjourn the deposition at this time. I think we should continue and complete the deposition. At a very minimum, I should have been given advance notice that the Mayor had 120 minutes and no more. THE WITNESS: I believe it's approximately 3:37. MR. ELDRIDGE: There is no question pending. MR. COHEN: Hold on. MR. ELDRIDGE: So I think, Michael, that we should complete the deposition and that the Mayor should make other arrangements tonight. MR. COHEN: Well, first of all, he didn't schedule the deposition, the lawyers scheduled the deposition. MR. ELDRIDGE: I was told 1:30. MR. COHEN: Well, he asked me how long it
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Do you see what I'm referring to? A. I do. Q. Do you know what Zak is referring to with respect to the labels? A. I do not. Q. Did Zak have an agenda against you in April of 2009? A. Zak and Mary were fighting, and the fighting was ramping up quite a bit during into the campaign regarding the campaign finance statements. Q. Why were they fighting? A. Mary wanted information that Zak wasn't giving them. Q. Like what? A. I don't know. Ask her. Q. What are you aware of? A. I don't know. All I know is they were fighting. I told them to work it out. Michael, reminder, I'm supposed to be in a meeting. MR. ELDRIDGE: Off the record for a second. THE VIDEO OPERATOR: Off the record, p.m. (Recess taken.) THE VIDEO OPERATOR: We're back on the record, 3:37 p.m. MR. ELDRIDGE: I think the record will
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would take. You said approximately two hours. He scheduled a meeting which he's now late for. So that's the way it is. He's the Mayor of the City. He's busy. He's got a schedule. MR. ELDRIDGE: Well, I'm busy, too, and I would have appreciated starting this deposition earlier if the Mayor had a strict, firm occasion that he had to attend to at 3:30. MR. COHEN: He had meetings this morning, and I had stuff on my schedule, too. MR. ELDRIDGE: Then we should have picked a different day. But it's not fair to make me continue to have to come back to continue this deposition. MR. COHEN: You also didn't ask me does he have time at the end of the day if I'm over two hours. MR. ELDRIDGE: Well, I mean -MR. COHEN: I did tell you this morning that you had better get it done. MR. ELDRIDGE: No, you didn't tell me that this morning, you told me when we arrived here. MR. COHEN: 1:30. MR. ELDRIDGE: When we started I would have appreciated a little advanced notice. Maybe I
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could have planned accordingly, or maybe we could have moved up the deposition a little earlier. MR. COHEN: I told you he had stuff on his schedule this morning and I did as well. MR. ELDRIDGE: We shouldn't have booked the deposition at that time. I think what we should do is Mayor Dickert could go to his meeting right now, we should wait for him to complete, and we should complete his deposition. THE WITNESS: I'm not willing to complete the deposition at 9:00 tonight or whenever I get home unless you want to wait here for five hours. MR. ELDRIDGE: I don't think you should attend your dinner. I think you should go to your meeting -THE WITNESS: I'm sorry but when I put issues and items on my agenda, I plan on fulfilling them, especially when there is a whole lot of people there and I told them I would be there. MR. ELDRIDGE: Well, I'm here and this is a lawsuit and you're compelled to be here. So I think we've got to work this out. MR. COHEN: I'm not going to commit to anything. I think he's got to go to his meeting, and I'll get back to you after I talk to him
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MR. COHEN: I think you've also wasted time showing the witness deposition transcripts and asking him to read 10 pages. MR. ELDRIDGE: Well, we can't -- I don't think we can really criticize one another in terms of our deposition strategy. MR. COHEN: You just were. MR. ELDRIDGE: No, in terms of timing, how much people have taken. I'm just saying -MR. COHEN: You just did. You said you read the transcript of Thomas Holmes. You just made a comment exactly like that. MR. ELDRIDGE: I'm not criticizing your strategy, I'm saying you took a long time. That's all. MR. COHEN: Okay. We're off the record. MR. ELDRIDGE: We're not off the record. We need a resolution. Michael, you can't go off the record unless both parties agree. So what's the resolution? MR. COHEN: We're off the record. He's got a meeting. MR. ELDRIDGE: What is the resolution? MR. COHEN: I don't know. I'm going to talk to the witness and get back to you.
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further. MR. ELDRIDGE: Then I'm considering this a termination of the deposition. MR. COHEN: You can consider it whatever you want to. MR. ELDRIDGE: I mean really. MR. COHEN: Facts are what they are. MR. ELDRIDGE: You know, Michael, I mean we're dealing with scheduling issues on a consistent basis. MR. COHEN: And I've been trying to work with you guys. You've been trying to work with us. MR. ELDRIDGE: True. MR. COHEN: We're now on nine hours, and this is the Mayor of the City, and he does have a schedule. And you said approximately two hours, and he booked his schedule accordingly. And I think that's reasonable given his circumstances. MR. ELDRIDGE: I wasn't even given two hours, and I really don't have that much more to do, but do I have more, and they're necessary questions. And I'm not going to talk about the length of the depositions because I've read several depositions, and they're multiple days including the deposition you just took of Thomas Holmes.
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MR. ELDRIDGE: Before the witness leaves, I need a resolution. MR. COHEN: I need to talk to him. MR. ELDRIDGE: Well, before the witness leaves, I need a resolution, please. So why don't you have a minute and talk to him. We can go off the record now for the moment. THE VIDEO OPERATOR: Going off the record. The time is 3:41 p.m. (Recess taken.) THE VIDEO OPERATOR: We're back on the record. This is the beginning of disk 2 volume 2 of the deposition of John Dickert. Today's date July 30th, 2015. The time 3:50 p.m. MR. ELDRIDGE: Okay. So I've been given until 4:15 to complete the deposition. I think that's probably going to do it, so let's get it done. BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. Did you talk to Tom Tousis about a man named Ahab Atute who was trying to open a BP gas station on Rapids Drive? A. No. Q. Do you know that name? A. No.
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Q. Did you ever in your conversations with Mr. Tousis refer to a Indian -- Strike that. In your conversations with Mr. Tousis did you ever refer to anyone as being a towel head? A. No. Q. Have you ever used that term? A. Nope. Q. Are you aware that Mr. Tousis has testified under oath twice that you used that term with him in reference to someone who is trying to open a BP gas station on Rapids Drive? A. If he testified to that, that's fine, but it's not true. Q. Okay. So so far we have two people testifying under oath that you've used racially discriminatory terms, Ms. Sharp and Mr. Tousis, and you're saying both of them are lying? A. Correct. Q. You've never used a racial discriminatory term? A. Nope. Q. Not in your life? A. Not that I remember. Q. Is it true that you accepted three personal loans during the course of your 2009 mayoral campaign? A. I don't recall three personal loans.
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Q. Is it true that your brother who lives in California gave you a $5,000 personal loan in 2009 during your mayoral campaign? A. He may have given me a loan. I don't remember when he gave it to me. Q. Did he give you a $5,000 personal loan? A. He may have. Q. Is that a yes? A. I don't recall how much or when he did it, but he may have, yeah. Q. You don't remember if your brother gave you a $5,000 loan? A. Well, the -- our family takes care of each other, and if somebody gives us a loan, we pay it back. Q. Okay. But you don't remember if he did? A. He may have, yeah. You're asking me to remember specifically what happened in 2009. Q. I'm asking you to remember if your brother gave you a $5,000 loan. A. Yeah, he may have, yeah. Q. Okay. Did Boyd Frederick give you a $5,000 loan in 2009? A. Let me think. I don't recall that, but he may have. I don't recall. Q. You don't remember if Boyd Frederick gave you a
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Q. Do you recall -- I'm sorry? A. I don't recall three personal loans. Q. Do you recall any personal loans during your 2009 mayoral campaign that you accepted? In other words, just so you understand what I'm referring to, I'll go backwards. Is it true that you accepted in 2009 during your mayoral campaign loans made out to John Dickert personally? A. If -- for what purpose? Q. I don't know. Did you accept during your mayoral campaign in 2009 loans, personal to you, in other words, made out to John Dickert as opposed to John Dickert for Mayor? A. I may have. Q. Okay. Is it true that you accepted two personal loans during your mayoral campaign from your brother? A. I don't recall receiving two personal loans from my brother. I may have received one, but I don't recall two. Q. Okay. How many brothers do you have? A. Five. Q. Is it true that your brother -- how many brothers do you have that live in California? A. I have one.
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$5,000 loan in 2009? MR. COHEN: Objection, asked and answered. He just said he may have. He doesn't recall. BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. You don't remember? He testified that he did. Do you have any reason to disagree with him? A. Okay. I don't recall it, but if he did, he might have, yeah. Q. Okay. Well, assuming that you got $5,000 loans from your brother and from Boyd Frederick in 2009, is it true that you accepted those loans personally and then took the same money and loaned it to your campaign? A. That's a bad assumption to make. There is no -- I don't recall that ever happening directly myself, but I don't know what they gave me the $5,000 loans for or recall at that time. Q. Is it possible -- I'm sorry to interrupt you. Go ahead. A. That's it. Q. Okay. Is it possible that you took the $5,000 loaned to you by your brother and the $5,000 loaned to you by Boyd Frederick and then turned around and wrote checks from John Dickert to your campaign? A. I don't know that that ever happened or recall that
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happening. Q. That would be illegal, wouldn't it? A. I don't know. MR. COHEN: Objection, calls for a legal conclusion. BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. I think I've shown you Exhibit 243. Yes. If you flip to the second page of Exhibit 243, please. Actually, do you know when you received the $5,000 loans from your brother and from Boyd Frederick? A. No, I don't. Q. Would you have record of that? A. I don't know if I would or not. Q. Do you know why you would have needed $10,000 in loans personally? A. Well, I was working as a realtor, and I'm not sure if my wife was working at the time or not. So if we did not have a closing check coming in because real estate is usually done in big ways, if you don't have a closing check done in time, sometimes family members would help me out. But once you get paid in a closing, then you pay them back or you are able to infuse money into the campaign. Q. Exhibit 253, second page towards the bottom references a loan made by you.
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Q. Yes? A. Yes. Q. Second page of that exhibit shows a loan made to yourself on April 22nd of 2009 in the amount of $1,000, correct? A. Correct. Q. And you believe that's accurate? A. I would assume so. Q. If you turn to the fourth page of the exhibit, Exhibit 244, there is another loan, do you see that? A. Yes. Q. And that's a loan from you to your campaign in the amount of $5,000? A. Okay. Q. True? A. That's what it says. Q. Okay. And you have no reason to dispute the accuracy of this, right? A. I do not. Q. Okay. So assuming that's all the loans that you made to your campaign during the spring of 2009, that totals $10,000, true? A. Correct. Q. Which is the same amount of personal loans that you received from your brother and Boyd Frederick, true?
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A. Q. A. Q.
Um-hum. To your campaign. Um-hum. Yes? MR. COHEN: That's a yes? THE WITNESS: Yes. BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. In the amount of $4,000, true? A. Correct. Q. Do you remember making this loan? A. No. Q. Any reason to believe that the record of you making the loan on Exhibit 243 is inaccurate? A. No reason to believe that. Q. So according to records of your campaign, you loaned your campaign $4,000 on March 31st, 2009? A. Correct. Q. Here is Exhibit 244. MR. COHEN: I think you used it already. MR. ELDRIDGE: I'm sorry. Can I have that back then? It probably has my notes on it. Thank you. It does. BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. Okay. So you have Exhibit 244 in front of you, sir? A. Um-hum.
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MR. COHEN: Objection, assumes facts not in evidence. BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. True? A. Correct. Q. Coincidence? A. Did you look at any other personal loans that I received? Q. Did you receive any other personal loans? A. I don't know. Or my checks from my real estate company? Q. Just saying. A. So am I. Q. Is that a coincidence? A. I don't know. MR. COHEN: Objection to the form of the question, argumentative. BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. Who is Laura Hermans, H E R M A N S? A. She was one of our first interns here at the office. Q. So that would have been in what, 2009, 2010? A. I don't remember when. Q. Do you still communicate with her? A. Yes. Q. On what matters?
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A. She's a friend. I supported her father's golf outing. He's passed. He was a pastor in town. Q. Does she remain a friend of yours? A. Yes, she does. Q. Who is Beth Pramme? A. My campaign manager in my second election. Q. So that would have been in 2011? A. Correct. Q. And are you still in touch with Beth Pramme? A. We haven't talked for some time. Q. Why is that? A. She got a new job, so I don't see her around too much. She's busy. Q. Have you read her deposition? A. No. Q. Before I run out of time, I wanted to ask you about a particular exhibit. (Exhibit 1576 marked.) BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. I believe it was your testimony during day one of your deposition that you did not attempt to exert any influence over liquor licensing matters; is that true? A. I don't know if that's the exact comment that I made. Q. Well, let me ask you differently. Did you attempt to
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Q. Have you read it, sir? A. I'm just about done. (Witness peruses document.) A. Okay. Q. Okay. So this is an email thread concerning R&B Latin Club? A. Correct. Q. And you recall Ms. Torres and Mr. Bueno applying? A. Correct. Q. For license at the R&B Latin Club? A. A conditional use permit. Q. First of all, how did you even get this email because I see there is an email between Matthew Sadowski to Justin Koepnick ccing Alderman Kaplan. You're not on it. But then you respond or forward it to Tom Friedel over the top. So how did you get the email? A. Because I received a phone call on the Saturday. They had been in I believe on Wednesday for the conditional use permit. We had told them that the conditional use permit does not allow them to open the bar. They have to go through the licensing procedure as well, and the conditional use permit must be followed up by a inspection. They opened the bar on Saturday. Mr. Kaplan got upset and contacted me, the sitting
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exert influence over liquor licensing matters? I don't have that authority. So the answer is you never did? I talked to people about liquor licenses. Did you attempt to exert influence though? I talked to people about liquor licenses. I don't have unilateral authority over them. Q. Okay. Did you ever tell anyone to, for example, make sure that someone doesn't get a liquor license? A. I don't have that authority. Q. Did you ever tell anyone that though? A. It doesn't matter. I don't have the authority. Q. I get that. But did you ever tell anyone to make sure that someone doesn't get a liquor license? A. I don't know that I ever would because I don't have that authority. Q. Okay. Did you ever tell anyone to make sure that someone's liquor license is revoked? A. I don't know. Q. You might have? A. I don't know. I don't have that authority, again. Q. Okay. I'm showing you what I've marked as Deposition Exhibit 1576. Let me know when you've had an occasion to read it. (Witness peruses document.) A. Q. A. Q. A.
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alderman. The police went over there to talk to them, and they lied to the police officer. They told him that we were approved and that we had given them approval to do it. So -Q. I want to be respectful of your testimony, but my only question was how did you receive the email? A. I don't recall. I'm trying to explain to you what happened because you asked the question. Q. All I asked was how you received the email. And I wouldn't cut you off, but I'm on a time restriction. A. Well, they had lied to our police officers -Q. Sir -A. -- therefore -MR. COHEN: Just answer his questions. THE WITNESS: All right. MR. COHEN: He just wanted to know how you got the email. THE WITNESS: I don't know. It was likely that Alderman Kaplan and/or the officer had made me aware of what was going on. BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. Okay. In any event, you forwarded this thread to Tom Friedel, right? A. Correct. Q. City Administrator? Yes?
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A. Correct. Q. And you said, quote: I want to make sure this application is denied. A. The conditional use. Q. Right? A. Correct. Q. Okay. In other words, you did not want them to open up? A. No. I wanted to make sure that the conditional use was denied because they lied to a police officer. Q. So what happens if the conditional use is denied, they're not allowed to open up, right? A. No, they then have to come back to the Planning Commission and explain their actions. Q. And what was your expectation in terms of what Mr. Friedel would do once you gave them this order? A. I wanted to make sure that he understood that we were going to start dealing with the fact that this group had illegally opened up, abused the rights of my staff on the development department and lied to a police officer. So we were asking for them to deny it so we could bring it back and talk to them because if they started with the conditional use, by lying and inappropriately opening their establishment, then we need to talk to them to make sure that they are
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to ask you about the first email at the top. (Witness peruses document.) Q. I'm sorry, I didn't realize you were ready. Incidentally, the only reason that you allowed the R&B Latin Club to open with the conditional use permit was when they withdrew their recall campaign against Alderman Kaplan, true? A. Absolutely not. MR. COHEN: Hold on, objection, misstates facts in the record. THE WITNESS: You guys -MR. COHEN: The recall was denied. It's improper. BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. So the first email is between -A. Stretch. Q. Excuse me? A. Continue. Q. The first email is between Mary Jerger and Zak Williams? A. It is. Q. Dated March 12th, 2009? Yes? A. It is. Q. Saying John's brother gave him a check for $3,000. Is that in reference to you?
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following all the rules and regulations specifically regarding inspections. Q. You were asking for the Public Safety and Licensing Committee to deny it? A. No. Q. For who? A. Conditional use permit for the Planning Commission which I am chair of. Q. So you were chair of the Planning Commission? A. Correct. Q. Is Mr. Friedel on the plan commission? A. No. Q. And they have authority over the conditional use permit? A. Correct. Q. Okay. Was the conditional use permit denied per your instruction? A. I don't believe it was. I think they came in and worked with Matt to make sure that they were going to follow all the procedures, and we reminded them that it was inappropriate to lie to a police officer. I believe we allowed them to continue operating. (Exhibit 1577 marked.) BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. I'm going to show you Exhibit 1577. I'm just going
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A. Q. A. Q.
I don't know. You would assume so? I would guess. All right. And Mary asked Zak because John's brother, your brother, presumably all of his kids are minors, Mary asked Zak how can we break it down to fall in the $803 maximum contribution guideline. Do you see that? A. I do. Q. And that would be illegal to do so, wouldn't you agree? A. I don't know. MR. COHEN: Objection to the extent it calls for a legal conclusion. BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. You don't know if it would be illegal to break down a $3,000 check into other people so as to make sure that it falls within the $803 campaign contribution guideline limit? A. I don't know. MR. COHEN: Objection, calls for a legal conclusion. BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. Were you ever made aware of the fact that -A. Are you going to let me answer the question?
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Q. Go ahead. A. I don't know because they didn't bring this to me, and I don't know what minors can give, and so I don't know what they did with it. Q. You don't know if minors can -A. I have no idea what minors can give. Q. You think minors can donate to your campaign lawfully? A. I have no idea. (Exhibit 1578 marked.) BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. I'm going to show you 1578, sir. MR. ELDRIDGE: I'm watching the clock, Michael. BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. I'm going to ask you just about the top email. (Witness peruses document.) Q. Let me know when you've read it. Have you read it? A. Okay. The top? Q. Yeah. So who is Meredith referenced in the top email of Exhibit 1578? A. I have no idea. Q. You don't know who the Meredith contribution is from? A. No. Q. Would it be appropriate to break down a single
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Q. A. Q. A.
Did you not have a Dickert, JohnDickert.org account? You mean the campaign account? Yeah. I believe we had a campaign account JohnDickert.org, yes. Q. So why was Beth Pramme corresponding to you via your Gmail account, do you know? MR. COHEN: Objection, calls for speculation. BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. Do you know? A. No. You can ask her. Q. On March 8, 2011 Beth Pramme wrote to you that Neubauer had maxed out, right? A. Okay. Q. Is that true? A. That's what she stated. Q. And she asked to -- if she should give in Lisa/Kathryn's name, right? Right? A. Where are you seeing that? Q. March 8th, 2011. A. Oh, okay. Q. Yes. A. That's what she wrote in the email. Q. And she tells that you Ruud, R U U D, maxed out and
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contribution into 10 anonymous contributions? A. I don't believe that's possible. Q. You don't believe it's appropriate? A. I don't know. Like I said, I don't know what the law is, so I'm not sure that you can do that or not. Q. And who is Pete, your brother? A. I don't know. Q. Do you have a brother named Pete? A. Yeah. Q. Okay. So did this $3,000 contribution from Pete, is that from your brother? A. I don't know. (Exhibit 1579 marked.) BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. You weren't aware that your brother made a $3,000 contribution to your campaign? A. I don't know. Q. You don't know? A. I don't know. Q. I'm going to show you Exhibit 1579. It's an email exchange in which you're utilizing your Gmail account, true? A. Yes. Q. Why would you be utilizing your Gmail account? A. Because I started a Gmail account.
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asked you if she should put it in the spouse's name, right? A. Correct. Q. She tells you that Burke over-contributed $250 and says they could put the overage plus $550 into Virginia's name, right? A. That's what she is stating. Q. And did you tell her that that was inappropriate? A. I don't know that it is or not. Q. Because you don't know the campaign finance laws? A. Depends on how they write out the check. I don't know. Q. You don't know whether that's lawful or not? A. I don't. Q. You don't know whether it's lawful if someone has over-contributed to your campaign by $250 to put it in someone else's name? A. I don't know if they can do that or not or if it needs to be sent back. Q. You think it's lawful if someone contributes money to you for your campaign to make the decision to put it in somebody else's name? MR. COHEN: Objection, assumes facts not in evidence. THE WITNESS: I don't know. You have to
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ask Beth. BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. How is that lawful? How could that be lawful? A. You have to ask Beth. Q. You're getting information, okay, from Beth Pramme who is in your campaign telling you that she wants to shift money from one donation to another, right? MR. COHEN: Objection. Misstates the record. BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. Right? A. And what's your question? MR. COHEN: Also misstate her testimony. BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. What do you do about that? She's telling you that she wants to change contributions from one person to another. What do you do about that? A. If she can do it legally, then she can do it legally. If she can't, she's got to send it back. Q. Well, did you tell her? Did you say make sure this is legal? A. I don't know what I did after this email. Q. Well, no emails from you were produced. Did you search your Gmail accounts? A. I think you guys all searched my Gmail accounts.
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incorrect, end quote. True? MR. COHEN: Are you asking him if what it said is true? BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. No, is that what it says? A. That's what she wrote on the email. Q. And you received a copy of this email? A. I am -- I'm cc'd, yeah. Q. So you knew that there was incorrect information being submitted? MR. COHEN: Objection, assumes facts not in evidence. BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. Right? A. No, there was a problem between Beth and Mary getting this report cleaned up and making sure it was all accurate. So they had a bit of a squabble about it. Q. As you can see, Mary responds or writes to Beth copying you on July 14th, quote: The bottom line number is not accurate, end quote. Do you see what I'm referring to? A. Okay. Q. Same day, Beth writes back to Mary copying you, if you flip to the first page, saying quote: Well, it
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Q. Last exhibit. This is Bach Exhibit 81. A. For the record it's after 4:15. MR. COHEN: I'll let you ask about this, and then we have to break it off. MR. ELDRIDGE: Got it. MR. COHEN: Do you have a copy? MR. ELDRIDGE: I thought I did. (Witness peruses document.) BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. You've seen these emails, right? A. I just read it. Q. You read the whole thing? A. You talking about the first part? Q. The whole exhibit. A. Well, I'm running on a little bit of a deadline. Want to ask a question? Q. Have you seen these emails? I asked a question. A. I believe I have seen this, at least a portion of this email before. Q. Okay. Let's go to the first email in the thread, second page, July 14th. Do you see what I'm referring to? Yes? A. Yes. Q. Mary Jerger writes to Beth, quote: I have a moral problem signing my name on this report knowing it's
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wasn't accurate according to your accounting last time either, but you had no problem signing it last time, nor did you do any work to try and figure out what the problem was, end quote. Right? That's what it says? A. That's what it says. Q. Copying you? A. Um-hum. Q. Yes? A. Yes. Q. So you're aware that there is at least inaccurate information that's submitted in your reports? A. It needs to be cleaned up. Q. Well, what about the inaccurate information and accounting that was submitted the last time? A. Well, obviously I wasn't aware of it. Q. Did you do anything once you became aware of this in July of 2011? A. We ended up changing treasurers. Q. Okay. Well, did you do anything to fix the illegal campaign contributions that your campaign accepted? A. I informed Beth after seeing and hearing from them on this conversation that they needed to make sure that the -- they were cleaned up. MR. COHEN: Delayed objection, misstates
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the record. BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. Did you make sure that they were in fact cleaned up? A. That's what I told them to do. Q. Which illegal campaign contributions did you receive? A. I didn't receive any. Q. The first line of the top -A. We're now -- my meeting, my second time for my meeting I'm now late for. Q. Go to the first line on the top of the -MR. COHEN: I think we're done. We told you 4:15, and now you're just pushing us so -- it's past the time. MR. ELDRIDGE: Literally the few questions -THE WITNESS: This is the last time. This is ridiculous. MR. ELDRIDGE: It's not ridiculous. It's actually not. MR. COHEN: We're done. BY MR. ELDRIDGE: Q. Mayor Dickert, first line on Exhibit 81: And under your system we accepted several illegal campaign contributions. That's what it says, right? You walking
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CERTIFICATE STATE OF WISCONSIN ) ) SS MILWAUKEE COUNTY ) I, VICKY L. ST. GEORGE, Registered Merit Reporter and Notary Public in and for the State of Wisconsin, do hereby certify that the preceding deposition was recorded by me and reduced to writing under my personal direction. I further certify that said deposition was taken at the offices of RACINE CITY HALL, 730 Washington Avenue, Racine, Wisconsin on July 30, 2015, commencing at 1:30 p.m. and concluding at 4:20 p.m. I further certify that I am not a relative or employee or attorney or counsel of any of the parties, or a relative or employee of such attorney or counsel, or financially interested directly or indirectly in this action. In witness whereof, I have hereunto set my hand and affixed my seal of office at Milwaukee, Wisconsin, this 10th day of August, 2015. <%Signature%> VICKY L. ST. GEORGE Notary Public in and for the State of Wisconsin Commission Expires 1/29/2017
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out? A. No. MR. COHEN: The deposition is over. MR. ELDRIDGE: You walking out? MR. COHEN: The deposition is over, Brian. Enough with the theatrics. MR. ELDRIDGE: We accepted several illegal contributions. What did you do about it? THE WITNESS: I did not. I told my staff to make sure to clean it up. Thank you. MR. COHEN: Deposition is over. MR. ELDRIDGE: What did you do about it? MR. COHEN: Deposition is over. We agreed 4:15. MR. ELDRIDGE: Have a nice dinner, Mayor Dickert. MR. COHEN: Brian, don't talk to my client, okay? MR. ELDRIDGE: Off the record. THE VIDEO OPERATOR: Off the record. This will conclude disk 2. The time 4:20 p.m. (At 4:20 p.m., the deposition concluded.) * * *
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August 10, 2015 To: Michael J. Cohen Case Name: Holmes, Thomas J., et al. v. Dickert, John, et al. Veritext Reference Number: 2111873 Witness: John Dickert Vol 2 Deposition Date: 7/30/2015 Dear Sir/Madam: Enclosed please find a deposition transcript. Please have the witness review the transcript and note any changes or corrections on the included errata sheet, indicating the page, line number, change, and the reason for the change. Have the witnessâ&#x20AC;&#x2122; signature at the bottom of the sheet notarized and forward errata sheet back to us at the address shown above, or email to production-midwest@veritext.com. If the errata is not returned within thirty days of your receipt of this letter, the reading and signing will be deemed waived. Sincerely, Production Department
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DEPOSITION REVIEW CERTIFICATION OF WITNESS
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ASSIGNMENT NO: 2111873 CASE NAME: Holmes, Thomas J., et al. v. Dickert, John, et al. DATE OF DEPOSITION: 7/30/2015 WITNESS' NAME: John Dickert Vol 2 In accordance with the Rules of Civil Procedure, I have read the entire transcript of my testimony or it has been read to me. I have made no changes to the testimony as transcribed by the court reporter.
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_______________ ________________________ Date John Dickert Vol 2 Sworn to and subscribed before me, a Notary Public in and for the State and County, the referenced witness did personally appear and acknowledge that:
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They have read the transcript; They signed the foregoing Sworn Statement; and Their execution of this Statement is of their free act and deed.
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I have affixed my name and official seal 16
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DEPOSITION REVIEW CERTIFICATION OF WITNESS
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ASSIGNMENT NO: 2111873 CASE NAME: Holmes, Thomas J., et al. v. Dickert, John, et al. DATE OF DEPOSITION: 7/30/2015 WITNESS' NAME: John Dickert Vol 2 In accordance with the Rules of Civil Procedure, I have read the entire transcript of my testimony or it has been read to me. I have listed my changes on the attached Errata Sheet, listing page and line numbers as well as the reason(s) for the change(s). I request that these changes be entered as part of the record of my testimony.
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I have executed the Errata Sheet, as well as this Certificate, and request and authorize that both be appended to the transcript of my testimony and be incorporated therein. _______________ ________________________ Date John Dickert Vol 2
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Sworn to and subscribed before me, a Notary Public in and for the State and County, the referenced witness did personally appear and acknowledge that: They have read the transcript; They have listed all of their corrections in the appended Errata Sheet; They signed the foregoing Sworn Statement; and Their execution of this Statement is of their free act and deed. I have affixed my name and official seal this ______ day of_____________________, 20____. ___________________________________ Notary Public
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___________________________________ Commission Expiration Date
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Page 1 A able 379:24 390:5 400:2 419:22 Absolutely 373:1 429:8 abused 427:19 accept 345:20 346:1,4 347:5,24 349:12 370:21 371:6 416:11 accepted 346:12 348:4 356:1,3,4,7 357:3,8,20 367:23 369:1 370:25 371:16,23 415:23 416:4 416:7,16 418:11 438:21 439:23 440:7 accepting 359:21,22 accepts 370:20 account 401:22 432:22 432:24,25 433:1,2,4,7 accounting 438:1,15 accounts 435:24,25 accuracy 421:17 accurate 342:17,20,24 343:6,8 344:8,20 345:17 421:7 437:18,21 438:1 accuses 370:19 acknowledge 368:10 371:6,22 443:11 444:16 act 443:14 444:20 action 441:17 actions 350:12 427:14 activity 350:18 actual 362:8 additional 382:3 address 442:16 adjourn 409:8 Administrator 426:25 admit 389:16 admitting 370:24 advance 409:11 advanced 410:25 advertising 401:13 402:3 402:4,6 advice 344:22 affirmation 342:23 affirmatively 345:25 affixed 441:19 443:15
444:21 afternoon 334:12 agenda 367:13 384:25 385:5,6,7,8 408:6 411:17 ago 334:14 335:12 337:15 agree 400:6 413:19 430:11 agreed 356:14,18 440:13 agreement 367:17 Ahab 414:20 ahead 344:12 346:7 348:10 349:2,14,24 350:14,24 359:16 364:19 374:15 375:10 406:8,17 418:19 431:1 al 331:3,6 442:6,6 443:3 443:3 444:3,3 alderman 336:20,23 337:3 425:14 426:1,19 429:7 alleged 363:9 allow 425:20 allowed 427:12 428:22 429:4 amount 375:1 383:15,17 393:8 420:8 421:4,13 421:24 amounts 383:21 and/or 342:13 346:23 426:19 anger 385:20 386:22 angry 386:20 387:3 announcement 353:11 anonymous 341:24 366:21,25 432:1 anonymously 365:9 answer 335:5 337:1,3 340:24 347:17 348:10 349:15 350:15 359:16 369:13 375:10 390:24 406:8,17 424:3 426:14 430:25 answered 346:9 348:9 418:2 answering 361:13 answers 337:13
apologize 353:3 apparently 382:9 403:14 appear 443:11 444:15 Appeared 332:5,9,13 appended 444:11,18 application 427:3 applying 425:8 appreciated 410:6,25 appropriate 338:9 409:8 431:25 432:3 appropriately 348:14 approval 426:4 approve 384:12 approved 426:3 approximate 409:4 approximated 409:3 approximately 409:13 410:1 412:16 April 373:22 374:1,4,12 378:1,12 379:1 380:14 380:14,14 382:9,19 383:25,25,25,25 384:1 388:14 402:13,15,16 403:11,13,16 404:4,12 404:18 405:19 406:1,1 407:8,20 408:6 421:4 argumentative 344:11 400:18 422:17 arrangements 409:20 arrived 410:22 artist 388:22 ASAP 402:10 aside 335:19 336:11 376:1 asked 337:12 338:11 345:9,13 346:9 360:25 361:7 372:10 375:17 387:21,22 389:2 392:23 393:5,6,11,13 399:18 405:3 409:25 418:2 426:8,9 430:4,6 433:18 434:1 436:17 asking 352:11,23 360:12 361:8 390:17 404:23,25 405:9 413:3 417:16,18 427:21 428:3 437:3 assign 368:21 ASSIGNMENT 443:2
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438:22 better 410:20 big 351:7 419:19 bills 358:14 359:11 360:1 360:5 369:5,8,10,17,23 370:1 372:4 374:2,11 375:2,7 376:9 bit 385:20 408:8 436:15 437:18 blend 389:15 blended 389:22 Bob 373:3,11 body 344:17 booked 411:5 412:17 bookkeeping 343:25 344:3 books 343:23 344:24 bottom 419:24 437:20 442:14 Bowl 360:19 box 397:20 boxes 397:19 boy 353:21 Boyd 417:21,25 418:10 418:23 419:10 421:25 BP 384:19 414:21 415:10 break 361:25 362:15 430:6,16 431:25 436:4 breakfast 384:23 breaking 350:13 breaks 370:18,20 Brian 332:2 334:12 362:4 440:5,17 bribe 391:19 bring 361:23 427:22 431:2 bringing 373:2 broke 395:22 401:11,17 401:20 402:10 broken 395:25 brother 416:17,19,23 417:1,11,18 418:10,22 419:10 421:25 429:24 430:5,5 432:6,8,11,15 brothers 416:21,23 brought 348:12 349:20 350:3 366:3 Bueno 425:8
builder 399:25 bunch 397:17 Burke 434:4 business 344:2 busy 410:4,5 423:13 buy 391:21,23 C C 332:1 334:1 441:1,1 California 416:24 417:1 call 370:15 373:22 376:2 385:19 396:10 403:20 404:3 405:14 407:20 425:17 called 334:7 calling 368:14 calls 340:23 347:16 348:8 349:1 359:14 370:14 396:2 401:9 419:4 430:14,21 433:8 campaign 337:25 338:2 338:10,12,14,17,18,24 339:4,7,13,20,23 340:5 340:12,14,17,21 341:5 341:6,7,10 342:15,21 342:23,25 343:1,3,5,13 343:20 344:5,9,19,25 345:10,16,19 346:4,13 346:22 347:5,10,11 348:4 349:3,4,11,19 350:9,13 355:7,8,18 356:1,4,7,7,15,19 357:4 357:8,8 358:14 359:12 359:25 360:10 361:2 363:9 364:13 367:24 368:2,6,21 369:1,4,9,12 369:16 371:23 372:5,20 372:24 373:4 374:13,25 375:5 377:19 379:12 380:12,19 381:16 383:23,24 385:16 387:20,21,23 388:1,9 388:10 389:11,20 392:23 393:4,17 394:9 394:13 398:11 400:7,24 401:12,24 402:1,4 403:17,18 405:18,20,25 406:5,15 408:8,9
415:24 416:4,8,12,17 417:3 418:13,24 419:23 420:2,15,16 421:12,21 423:6 429:6 430:18 431:7 432:16 433:2,4 434:10,16,21 435:6 438:21,21 439:5,23 campaigns 352:24 353:3 355:1 candidate 343:4 345:2 348:24 care 346:14 368:7 417:13 Carly 339:18,19,20 case 331:5 367:7,10,11 442:6 443:3 444:3 cash 341:17,25 358:11 360:10 364:25 365:7,13 366:3,10,20,25 368:8 378:21 393:22 394:2,10 394:13 395:13,20 396:13,17 398:8,11,17 406:24 cc'd 437:9 ccing 425:14 census 341:12 certain 362:20 certainly 344:16 Certificate 444:11 CERTIFICATION 443:1 444:1 certify 441:6,9,13 Chain 333:9,11,13,15 chair 345:3,23 346:23 347:21 348:13 349:4 350:9 368:3,6 370:18 428:8,9 chairman 346:13 chance 403:1 change 379:15 435:16 442:13,14 445:3 change(s) 444:8 changes 442:12 443:7 444:7,9 changing 438:19 check 379:14,18,20 419:18,20 429:24 430:17 434:11 checking 344:6
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containing 358:14 359:11 369:5,10,16,23 370:1 continue 409:9 410:13,13 428:22 429:18 CONTINUED 332:19 334:10 continues 379:9 380:9 contributed 354:25 378:9 contributes 434:20 contribution 341:10,17 341:25 342:11 347:6,20 347:23 348:11 350:3 357:16 358:11,15 359:12 360:10 363:10 364:13,25 368:21 369:1 375:1,7 378:9,13,19 379:4,13 388:1 392:23 393:17 394:5,9 395:13 395:20 398:8,11,17 399:8,12 400:7 405:18 405:21,25 406:5,15,25 430:7,18 431:23 432:1 432:10,16 contributions 337:25 338:24 339:4,8 341:5 342:14 345:20 346:4,11 347:12,24 348:5 349:12 349:19,20 355:18 356:1 356:5,8 357:4,9,20 358:2 365:7,13 367:1 367:24 368:8 370:21,25 371:7,16,23 372:20,24 374:13 378:2,23 379:20 380:5,14,19 382:4 383:23,24 387:20 389:20 396:25 400:22 432:1 435:16 438:21 439:5,24 440:8 conversation 339:10 356:13,16,17,20 403:9 438:23 conversations 335:19 415:1,3 convert 366:21 copies 361:23 copy 361:22,25 362:8,15 362:22 377:14 436:6 437:8
copying 437:20,24 438:7 correct 335:8 337:23 341:21 347:1,3 370:2 371:18 372:1,6 375:15 377:20,24 378:4,11 379:2 381:17,23,25 382:14 383:1,8,10 384:2,11,13 388:15,17 388:22 389:8 392:1 395:11 396:1,14,20 397:16,22 399:18,24 401:3 402:18 403:19 407:22 415:18 420:9,17 421:5,6,23 422:5 423:8 425:7,9 426:24 427:1,6 428:10,15 434:3 corrected 374:22 corrections 442:12 444:17 correctly 345:24 correspondence 339:6 corresponding 433:6 counsel 335:19 441:14,15 County 441:3 443:10 444:15 couple 337:15 339:5 365:19 392:17 course 415:24 court 331:1 334:5 335:2 443:7 crisp 375:1,7 criticize 413:5 criticizing 413:13 cross-examination 363:19 currently 352:7 384:19 custom 344:4 cut 426:10 D D 332:16 334:1 433:25 DAN 332:6 date 334:4 336:9 378:18 382:18 402:14 414:13 442:8 443:3,9,19 444:3 444:13,25 445:20,25 Dated 333:5,7,9,11,13,15 429:22
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Page 4 dates 383:15 406:12 day 336:14,17 364:3 382:13 383:7 397:14 404:7,8 406:24 410:12 410:16 423:20 437:24 441:20 443:16 444:22 445:22 days 334:14 335:12 337:15 378:24 380:20 402:19 412:24 442:18 deadline 436:15 deal 349:4 350:9 385:21 386:8,9,13,18 399:22 dealing 350:2 412:9 427:18 dealt 348:14 Dear 442:10 decided 381:5 decision 385:23,24 386:1 434:21 deed 443:14 444:20 deemed 442:19 Defendants 331:7 332:13 defense 337:1 definition 361:12 Delayed 438:25 delivered 333:21 DeMatthew 339:21 denied 427:3,10,11 428:16 429:12 deny 371:25 376:12 389:19 427:21 428:4 denying 355:21 358:17 365:3,16 366:16 367:3 372:19,23 376:5,24 393:19 dep 361:25 362:2 department 427:20 442:22 depends 362:16 434:11 deposed 337:15 deposition 331:9 333:3 334:3,17 335:10 336:15 336:18,20,23 337:4,6,8 337:22,24 338:3,15 339:3 361:5 385:4 394:21 397:9,11 398:7 402:25 409:2,5,8,10,19
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document 359:8 364:8,10 365:23 370:8 375:21 395:2 403:3 407:15 424:25 425:3 429:2 431:17 436:8 documentation 335:22 336:12 doing 337:14 340:7 352:24 358:12 360:12 365:1,5 370:19 384:9 385:15 389:25 390:2 396:11,12 donate 346:19 368:22 369:2 393:3,14 431:7 donated 382:9,12 donating 389:11 donation 379:15 382:25 383:6 435:7 donations 338:15,17 356:21 366:22 400:21 door 357:20,24,24 Doug 332:13 351:19 354:1 355:4,5,8 356:13 356:22 357:4,9,15 358:11,13 359:10,23 360:1,7,9,14,16,21,23 361:3,5,7 363:9 364:13 364:25 365:6,12 366:10 368:18,19 372:16 373:16,22 374:1,5,11 374:23,25 375:6,16 376:2,8,13 377:4,5 378:2,12,23 379:3,8,19 380:5,9,13 381:1 382:4 382:9,16,25 383:12,24 384:8 394:5 Doug's 368:19 378:6 384:8 Douglas 384:20 downstairs 343:15 drawing 388:24 Drive 332:3 353:10 414:22 415:11 dropped 372:3 duly 334:8 Durand 354:7 E
E 332:1,1,16 333:1 334:1 334:1 422:19 441:1,1 earlier 359:20 363:7 365:1 368:6 377:3 385:1 399:16 410:7 411:2 East 332:11 EASTERN 331:2 effect 358:2 359:5 366:6 366:22 367:23 efforts 368:2 either 339:18 343:4 347:22 390:2 391:22 438:2 Eldridge 332:2,19 333:21 334:11,13 337:2,7 339:16 341:2 344:15 346:15 347:25 348:15 348:22,23 349:6,18 350:1,11,17 351:2,8 358:7,20,22 359:4,24 361:23 362:3,7,13,18 362:23 363:4,21 364:1 364:5,17,22 371:4,5,11 371:21 374:18 375:13 377:14,16 380:25 381:7 381:12 382:19,21 384:7 387:1 391:8,9 394:17 394:20 395:1,8,17,18 396:5 397:24 398:5,14 400:13,20 401:10 402:24 404:16 405:23 406:11,20 407:4,12 408:18,25 409:15,18,24 410:5,11,18,21,24 411:5,13,20 412:2,6,8 412:13,19 413:4,8,13 413:17,23 414:1,4,15 414:19 418:4 419:6 420:7,20,23 422:3,18 423:19 426:21 428:24 429:14 430:15,23 431:11,13,15 432:14 433:10 435:2,10,14 436:5,7,9 437:5,14 439:2,14,18,21 440:4,7 440:12,15,19 elected 388:11
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Page 5 election 353:5,13 370:14 373:21 374:1 401:18 402:2,7,12,15,16,17,19 423:6 elections 407:9 elicit 398:17 405:18,25 406:4 elicited 391:19 398:10 eliciting 389:19 else's 434:17,22 email 333:5,7,9,11,13,15 335:23,24,25 336:6,8 336:11 403:11,12,14 406:3,10,12,12,19,21 407:7,17,19 425:5,12 425:13,16 426:6,9,17 429:1,15,19 431:16,20 432:20 433:24 435:22 436:19,20 437:7,8 442:16 emails 338:14,17,23 339:2,12 385:19 435:23 436:10,17 Emelia 353:24 employee 441:14,15 Enclosed 442:11 ended 438:19 endorsed 373:3,11 ensure 342:19 344:8 entered 444:9 entire 443:5 444:5 envelope 369:23 373:14 envelopes 369:5,10,16 370:1 372:4 Eric 385:7 387:8 errata 442:13,15,18 444:7,10,18 445:1 especially 411:18 establishment 427:24 estate 389:4 399:22 419:19 422:10 et 331:3,6 442:6,6 443:3 443:3 444:3,3 event 352:9,13,14 354:3 357:16,19 426:22 events 362:20 395:13,21 evidence 348:4,20 349:24 359:14 364:16 371:2
374:15 396:3 401:9 407:3 422:2 434:24 437:13 evident 400:15 exact 402:14 423:24 exactly 413:12 EXAMINATION 332:19 334:10 examined 334:9 example 424:8 excess 345:20 346:4 347:6,12 348:5 349:12 349:20 350:3 355:19 exchange 432:21 Excuse 429:17 executed 444:10 execution 443:14 444:19 exercise 397:14 exert 423:21 424:1,5 exhibit 333:3,5,7,9,11,13 333:15 361:20 362:8 363:5 370:4 377:13,17 377:25 381:13,13 382:1 382:23 394:18,19 397:11 402:23 403:1,6 407:11,13 419:7,8,24 420:13,18,24 421:3,9 421:10 423:17,18 424:23 428:23,25 431:10,21 432:13,20 436:1,1,14 439:22 exhibits 333:20 361:24 362:14 expect 345:23 expectation 427:15 expecting 344:22 experience 344:3 Expiration 443:19 444:25 445:25 Expires 441:24 explain 365:7,12 426:7 427:14 explains 371:12 extent 340:22 430:13 F F 441:1 fabricating 386:19,23
fact 336:4 347:11 348:3 362:10 366:24 371:6,22 375:6 376:8 386:12 395:24 396:17 398:23 404:11,17 427:18 430:24 439:3 facts 347:14 348:19 349:23 359:13 364:15 371:2 374:14 396:3 401:8 405:17 407:3 412:7 422:1 429:10 434:23 437:12 fair 335:3,4,7 410:12 fairly 336:2 367:14,15,16 384:22 385:11,13,14 390:13 fall 377:18 430:7 falls 430:18 false 372:18 familiar 341:9,13 369:3 familiarize 338:10 340:20 341:7 familiarized 341:4 family 417:13 419:20 famous 360:17 far 378:8,10 385:3 415:14 father 384:23 father's 423:1 Feel 363:16 fictitious 386:18 fighting 408:7,7,10,15 figure 438:3 filing 377:18 fills 343:9 final 383:17 finance 338:3,10,12 339:14,23 340:5,12,14 340:17,21 341:6 342:13 342:15,21,23 343:1,3,5 343:13,20 344:5,9,20 344:21,25 345:3,13,16 345:23 346:13,23 347:9 347:10,21 348:13 349:4 350:9 368:2,6 370:18 377:19 379:13 380:12 381:16 400:24 401:24 408:9 434:10
financially 441:16 find 442:11 fine 364:17 415:12 finished 375:23 firm 410:7 first 334:8 335:12 337:22 338:15 339:17 370:12 402:12 403:5 407:19 409:1,21 422:20 425:12 429:1,15,19 436:13,20 437:25 439:7,10,22 FISHER 332:10 five 411:12 416:22 fix 350:16,25 359:20 438:20 fixed 350:19,20 flip 377:25 380:3 382:1 382:15 419:8 437:25 Floor 332:11 flux 341:12 focus 337:25 follow 428:20 follow-up 349:10 350:18 followed 425:23 following 428:1 follows 334:9 foregoing 443:13 444:18 forget 355:14 form 346:6 347:15 348:7 349:2,22 350:7,22,24 358:18 359:15 374:15 375:9 380:23 381:3,9 384:5 400:9 405:22 406:7,16 407:2 422:16 forward 385:18 425:15 442:15 forwarded 426:22 found 379:12 foundation 371:8 404:14 four 354:4,5 fourth 377:25 421:9 Franklin 442:1 Frederick 417:21,25 418:10,23 419:10 421:25 free 363:16 443:14 444:20 Friedel 333:10 425:16
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Case 2:14-cv-00208-JPS Filed 09/28/15 Page 34 of 45 Document 229-7
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399:21 419:2 430:10,16 438:20 439:5,23 440:7 illegally 374:17 384:9 427:19 Illinois 332:3 442:2 important 334:23 338:7 impossible 386:11 399:21 400:2 improper 350:23 429:13 inaccurate 346:12 420:13 438:11,14 inappropriate 428:21 434:8 inappropriately 427:24 Incidentally 429:4 included 442:13 including 385:16 399:16 412:24 incomplete 349:23 350:23 359:15 inconsistency 370:12 incorporated 444:12 incorrect 437:1,10 incriminate 361:14 independent 344:17 Indian 415:2 indicating 442:13 indirectly 441:16 individuals 377:6 influence 386:5 423:22 424:1,5 inform 347:21 information 335:16 405:4,10 408:11 435:5 437:10 438:12,14 informed 438:22 infuse 419:23 I Infusino 353:24 idea 341:20,23 342:3,5 Infusino's 353:10,23 351:21,24 352:7 356:11 354:6 371:9 431:6,9,22 inside 390:25 identical 383:23 inspection 425:23 identify 377:17 381:13 inspections 428:2 illegal 349:19 350:3 instance 368:25 356:1,4,7 357:3,5,6,8 instruct 336:25 405:9 359:12 367:23 368:2 instructed 364:12 405:3 371:23 372:20,24 406:14 374:19 397:5,6,8 instruction 407:20
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Case 2:14-cv-00208-JPS Filed 09/28/15 Page 35 of 45 Document 229-7
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legal 340:23 345:20 347:6,12,16 348:5,8 349:1,12 355:19 359:14 361:12 396:2 401:9 419:4 430:14,21 435:21 442:1 445:1 legally 435:18,18 LeGath 351:22 355:11 356:17 369:4,9,11,22 372:3,14,21,25 373:15 length 412:22 let's 339:17 397:9 414:17 436:20 letter 442:19 liars 400:12,14 license 424:9,14,18 425:10 licenses 424:4,6 licensing 423:22 424:1 425:21 428:3 lie 428:21 lied 373:18,19 426:2,11 427:10,20 life 415:21 limit 341:17,25 347:24 348:12 430:19 limitations 340:21 341:5 341:8,10,14 limiting 353:1 limits 342:11 345:21 346:5 347:6,12 348:5 349:13 355:19 368:9 line 363:15,15 364:6,6 365:22,22 370:6,7,7 377:8 380:4 437:20 439:7,10,22 442:13 444:7 lines 378:1,21 380:4 382:3 liquor 423:22 424:1,4,6,9 424:14,18 Lisa/Kathryn's 433:19 list 351:14 352:2,4 listed 403:12 444:7,17 listing 444:7 litany 385:15 Literally 439:14 litigation 338:22
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Case 2:14-cv-00208-JPS Filed 09/28/15 Page 36 of 45 Document 229-7
Page 8 little 385:20 397:18,18,20 410:25 411:2 436:15 live 392:3 416:24 lived 390:13 391:1,3 392:4,6,8 lives 417:1 living 391:24 loan 417:2,4,6,12,14,19 417:21 418:1 419:25 420:10,13 421:3,10,12 loaned 418:12,21,22 420:15 loans 401:23 415:23,25 416:2,3,8,12,17,18 418:9,11,16 419:10,15 421:20,24 422:7,9 LOCATED 331:11 location 384:24 locations 383:14 long 384:21 409:25 413:14 look 338:12 361:21 365:19 370:3 375:19 389:2 394:22 397:9,13 422:7 looked 335:11 336:8 lose 401:14 lot 354:11,13 390:7 411:18 lying 367:5 377:1 396:21 399:15 400:5,16,19 415:17 427:23 Lyle 332:14 M M 422:19 Madison 354:11,17 Madrid 353:5,8,20 MAHONEY 332:2 makers 386:1 making 347:5 367:22 379:19 383:10 386:18 386:23 387:15 420:10 420:12 437:17 man 414:20 manager 339:20 341:6 403:17,18 423:6 Manny 353:9,17,21
Manny's 353:22 March 420:16 429:22 433:13,21 Marcus 385:7,10 387:8 Marcus's 387:10 mark 332:14 394:17 marked 361:19,24 362:3 362:14 394:19 397:10 402:23,25 407:11 423:18 424:22 428:23 431:10 432:13 marking 362:5 married 354:22 Mary 339:7,24 340:1,1,1 340:3,4,13 343:24 344:6,9,17,23 345:1,5,8 345:9,14 346:25 347:9 347:21 349:9 377:23 381:22 383:11 408:7,11 429:19 430:4,6 436:24 437:16,19,24 mason's 361:2 393:22 394:1 398:19,23 Matt 428:19 matter 362:9 406:24 424:12 matters 399:15 422:25 423:22 424:1 Matthew 425:13 max 393:6,12 maxed 433:14,25 maximum 430:7 Mayor 332:18 334:12 348:16,20,21 358:3,6 363:5 370:14,14,15 377:21 381:18 388:11 389:7 398:20,24 409:2 409:4,11,19 410:3,7 411:7 412:15 416:14 439:22 440:15 mayoral 343:4 348:24 415:24 416:4,8,11,17 417:3 McAuliffe 355:6 McCAMBRIDGE 332:2 mean 340:7 368:12 371:12 388:11 396:12 410:18 412:6,8 433:2
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419:23 434:20 435:7 moral 436:24 morning 410:9,19,22 411:4 moved 411:2 multiple 390:16 412:24 MVP 360:22 N N 332:1,16 334:1 422:19 name 353:17,22 354:21 355:14 382:16 393:22 414:24 433:19 434:1,6 434:17,22 436:25 442:6 443:3,4,15 444:3,4,21 named 414:20 432:8 narrowed 409:7 Natalie 353:9,17 necessary 412:21 need 334:19 366:25 402:1 413:18 414:2,3,5 427:25 needed 343:22 401:13 402:10 419:14 438:23 needs 402:4 434:19 438:13 Neubauer 433:14 never 360:3 369:22,25 373:24 384:12 389:13 392:14 396:4 397:6,7 401:14,16 415:19 424:3 new 391:23 423:12 nice 385:19 440:15 NICHOLS 332:10 Nicholson 332:13 351:19 354:1 355:5 356:13,22 357:4,9,15 358:11,13 359:10 360:2,7,9,23 361:3,7 363:9 364:13 364:25 365:7,12 366:11 368:18 372:16 373:16 373:23 374:2,5,12,23 374:25 375:6,16 376:2 376:16,22 377:5 378:2 378:12,18,24 379:3,19 380:6,13,13 382:4,9,12 383:6,12,25 394:6 Nicholson's 361:5 377:5
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Case 2:14-cv-00208-JPS Filed 09/28/15 Page 37 of 45 Document 229-7
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Case 2:14-cv-00208-JPS Filed 09/28/15 Page 38 of 45 Document 229-7
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Case 2:14-cv-00208-JPS Filed 09/28/15 Page 39 of 45 Document 229-7
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Case 2:14-cv-00208-JPS Filed 09/28/15 Page 40 of 45 Document 229-7
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Case 2:14-cv-00208-JPS Filed 09/28/15 Page 41 of 45 Document 229-7
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Case 2:14-cv-00208-JPS Filed 09/28/15 Page 42 of 45 Document 229-7
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Case 2:14-cv-00208-JPS Filed 09/28/15 Page 43 of 45 Document 229-7
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Case 2:14-cv-00208-JPS Filed 09/28/15 Page 44 of 45 Document 229-7
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Case 2:14-cv-00208-JPS Filed 09/28/15 Page 45 of 45 Document 229-7