EXHIBIT A
Case 2:14-cv-00208-JPS Filed 02/23/15 Page 1 of 15 Document 121-12
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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
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EASTERN DISTRICT OF WISCONSIN
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THOMAS J. HOLMES, et al. Plaintiffs,
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vs.
Case No. 14-CV-208
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JOHN DICKERT, et al., Defendants.
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13 14 DEPOSITION OF PENNY SHARP 15 16 17 18
TAKEN AT: KOHLER & HART, S.C. LOCATED AT: 735 North Water Street #1212 Milwaukee, Wisconsin February 12, 2015 2:19 p.m. to 8:12 p.m.
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REPORTED BY ANNICK M. JAQUET REGISTERED MERIT REPORTER CERTIFIED REALTIME REPORTER
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BY MR. FOUKAS:
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Q
That's what I did.
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A
He did.
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And so the unprecedented lawsuit was
suing the union.
5
Q
Okay.
6
A
Obviously.
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Understood. And an unlimited lawsuit was suing
these businesses.
8
Q
Okay.
9
A
But you don't call somebody a corrupt union
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leader, I'm sorry.
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have a temper, and I wrote this quickly after
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that happened.
13
Q
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Do you hold a grudge against Alderman Wisneski and Alderman Helding?
A
No, I don't even know them, really, I mean, personally I don't know them, no.
16 17
I, like everybody else,
Q
18
Have you ever heard John Dickert discuss any of the plaintiffs' bars?
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A
Yes.
20
Q
When did you hear that?
21
A
It happened to me in January of 2011.
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Jacqueline Koningsveld had invited all of the
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candidates who were running for office that
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year to our Democratic Party monthly meeting,
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which we never do.
Okay.
We don't invite
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Republicans, Republicans don't invite us.
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That's just kind of one of those things, okay,
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and John was in a group of people and he made
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it very, very clear, and I can say the exact
5
words that he said that I heard, and I don't
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even like using that kind of language, but they
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were talking about the distillery that could
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have gone, they said the distillery that could
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have gone in that building, but they were
10
talking about Thomas Holmes and the flyers that
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he was sending out.
12
that was attracting people from other cities
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and one happened to be from Waukegan and he
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said, "These niggers need to go back to
15
Waukegan because they're disturbing the revenue
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here in Racine from the lake, from our
17
vacationers with the lake."
18
Q
He had a copy of the flier
I'm sorry, let's -- I'm going to need to break You were at a
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that down a little bit.
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Democratic Party monthly meeting in January of
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2011.
22
A
Yes, I was.
23
Q
And John Dickert was present.
24
A
Yes, he was, because he was a candidate.
25
Q
And he was a candidate for mayor?
Case 2:14-cv-00208-JPS Filed 02/23/15 Page 4 of 15 Document 121-12
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A
Yes.
2
Q
And you said that there was a discussion amongst --
3 4
A
Him and several other people.
5
Q
A group of people.
6
A
Right.
7
Q
Who else was present?
8
A
The only person that I remember that was present, were present was Bob Henzl.
9 10
Q
Could you spell Mr. Henzl's name?
11
A
H-E-N-Z-L.
12
Q
In Milwaukee or in Racine?
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A
Oh, I'm sorry, in Racine.
And he's an attorney here in town.
I'm thinking in town
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meaning we're talking about in Racine, you
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know.
16
Q
But it wasn't just --
17
A
No, it wasn't just him.
18
Q
A conversation between Mr. Dickert and Mr. Henzl?
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A
Uh-uh.
21
Q
That's a no?
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A
That's a no.
23
Q
All right.
were part of this conversation?
24 25
Do you know how many other people
A
Four or five.
I verified that with my husband.
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1
Q
Was your husband present?
2
A
He didn't hear it. didn't hear it.
3 4
He was present, but he
Q
Your husband was at this Democratic Party meeting?
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A
Uh-huh.
7
Q
That's a yes?
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A
Yes.
9
Q
When did you verify this with your husband?
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A
Couple of days ago.
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Q
So in thinking about this, your deposition today you talked to him about this meeting?
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A
No.
I just asked him, I said, "How many people
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were standing around me when John said that,"
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because on our way home I told my husband
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immediately.
17
Q
And you saw John Dickert with a flier from Park 6?
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A
Yes.
20
Q
Did you -- were you a part of the conversation or where were you standing?
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A
No.
The chairs were all kind of set out and in
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a very large square room like this and he was
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about here and I was about to the other
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attorney.
(Indicating.)
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1
Q
So how many feet away were you when you heard this?
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That's about what, six feet.
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A
Less than six.
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Q
And how many people in between you --
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A
None.
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Q
So you had a straight shot where you could see Mr. Dickert.
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A
Uh-huh.
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Q
That's a yes?
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A
Yes.
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Q
Was there any music playing?
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A
No.
13
Q
Where was this Democratic Party meeting?
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A
1840 Sycamore, Racine, Wisconsin, 53405.
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That's the labor temple or the labor hall.
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That's where we always had our meetings.
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Q
the flier?
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And the flier that -- did you personally see
A
Yes.
It wasn't -- all it was was telling them
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about a group that was going to be at Park 6
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that, you know, Friday night.
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Q
And it mentioned Waukegan, the flier itself?
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A
No, it didn't.
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Q
Who brought up Waukegan?
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A
John said this is what one of his friends,
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Q
Do you think --
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A
When he had already interviewed Officer Day and
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he had already interviewed Officer Howell, and
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they had both been lifetime Racine police
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officers.
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Q
shift are racist?
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Do you think the patrol officers on the third
A
You know, when they turn the lights off here in Racine I think if I was those third shift
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parole officers, or patrol officers I would
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have been scared as well.
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dark alley with a flashlight, so I'm not going
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to comment on it whether I think it was a
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biased, you know, whether they were or weren't.
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I don't know.
16
Q
Now, you walk down a
You indicated that you left the NAACP because
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they didn't want any white people on the board;
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is that correct?
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A
That's correct.
20
Q
Do you think that the NAACP is racist?
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A
I do.
22
Q
You do?
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A
I do.
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Q
Gloria Rogers was the former president,
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correct?
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A
She's been president so many times I -- at least three.
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Q
Do you think Gloria Rogers is racist?
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A
Yes, I do.
you know, when you're in your upper 70s.
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It's hard to change when you're,
Q
You mentioned the Cobb family before. African-American?
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A
Yes.
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Q
Do you believe that they're racist?
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Are they
•Yes. Q
Al Gardner, you mentioned him before, is he African-American?
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A
Yes.
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Q
Do you believe that he's racist?
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A
He can be.
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Q
You'd indicated before that there are occasions
I don't know if he's...
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when the Union Grove police had some activities
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with connection with the high school.
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recall that?
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A
Do you
I said that, you know, kids are afraid of
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police, yeah, you know, because they stop them
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for, you know, really no apparent reason at
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times, yes.
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Q
Do you believe that the Union Grove -- Union Grove Police Department is racist?
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necessarily have to sign anything to show that
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I was there?
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A
No.
And John never signed a sheet.
I've got
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sheets at home being secretary, and he was
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there and he would never sign his name.
6
Q
At this particular event or any event?
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A
No, at any event.
8
Q
Where in relation -- and at some point I assume
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that Mayor Dickert offered comments; is that
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correct? A
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Sure.
He went up to say, you know, like Eric
Marcus did. Q
The statement that you claim he made with
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respect to the flier, do you remember that
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statement?
16
A
Right.
I hated it.
17
Q
Where in relation to his speech, when in
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relation to his speech did that occur?
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before or after?
20
A
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Was it
That was way after everybody had almost all left.
22
Q
And he's --
23
A
He was talking to a very few people in a group
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of people, okay, there's like -- like there's
25
chairs all lined up like this, okay, but it
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happened to be on their side.
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standing over here.
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there's a refrigerator back out there, and I
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was backing out and I heard him say that.
5
Q
They were
I was backing out because
How many people were still around at the time
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that you claim that he made the statement?
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The people that were in his group were about
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five or six that were standing around his area,
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four, five, six in his area.
10
Q
Okay.
11
A
But as far as my husband was there because he
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was in his office locking up, and I was there.
13
Q
Nobody else that you can recall?
14
A
No, because it was late.
I mean, they were all
15
ready to go home at 7:30, 8:00, and it was
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10:00.
17
Q
10:00 at night?
18
A
Uh-huh.
19
Q
And you don't remember who he was speaking to
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other than Bob Henzl; is that correct?
21
A
That's right.
22
Q
Is Mr. Henzl a Republican or Democrat as far as
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you know?
24
A
He's a dem.
25
Q
He's a Democrat?
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1
A
Uh-huh.
2
Q
Yes?
3
A
Yes.
4
Q
Did you recognize the other people that Mr. Dickert was speaking to?
5 6
A
No, I did not, and some of them had their backs
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to me and some of the people were probably
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people I wouldn't know. But you knew Mr. Henzl.
9
Q
Okay.
10
A
Of course I know Bob and Sally.
11
Q
Okay.
12
A
To the party.
13
Q
You had met him before, though.
14
A
Many times.
15
Q
Okay.
16
A
Every time the party met.
They're friends of yours?
They were polite to
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us and we used one of his attorneys in his, for
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our will.
19
Q
20
Okay.
So you hear Mr. Dickert make the
statement, correct?
21
A
Right.
22
Q
You don't see anybody in his group react; is
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that correct? A
They were kind of like pretending that they didn't hear it.
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1
Q
Well, as far as you only -- how many people could you see, their faces?
2 3
A
Only three.
4
Q
And other people, their backs were to you?
5
A
Right.
6
Q
Okay.
Did Mr. Dickert know that -- was his
back to you or was he facing you?
7 8
A
No, he was facing me.
9
Q
So he could see you, you were near him?
10
A
If he looked.
11
Q
Okay.
other that night?
12 13
Did you and Mr. Dickert acknowledge each
A
Did he know you were there?
He always knows I'm there because I'm the But the way he walks in I don't
14
secretary.
15
expect anybody to say hi to me at all because
16
I'm at the far end, they're at the other far
17
end, you know, signing in or just sitting down.
18
John is always late.
19
Q
than six feet away from him; is that correct?
20 21
A
22 23
Oh, yeah, I mean, I could probably foot it out for you.
Q
And were you just standing there, eavesdropping, or what were you doing?
24 25
And you testified that you were little less
A
Well, I wanted to talk to one of the people
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that were standing there, which was Sally
2
Henzl, Bob's wife.
3
Q
So now you recall Sally Henzl being there.
4
A
Well, if Bob's there Sally's there.
5
Q
You didn't mention Sally before. of the four to five people?
6 7
A
8 9
Is Sally one
She would have been, yes, she would have
Yes.
been there. Q
10
Where was Sally standing in relation to Mayor Dickert?
11
A
Her back was to me and she had a red coat on.
12
Q
Where was Mr. Henzl standing in relation to
13
Mr. Dickert?
14
A
To the right.
15
Q
Are you and Sara friends?
16
A
Sally.
17
Q
Sally, thank you.
18
A
No.
19
I was inviting her to a women's caucus
event. But you had talked to her before?
20
Q
Okay.
21
A
No.
22
Q
And you never met Sally?
23
A
Of course I met her, but I'm saying I'm not a
24
personal close friend of hers, but I'm saying
25
that I was inviting her to a caucus event, a
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women's caucus event.
1 2
Q
Okay.
3
A
Right.
So you were waiting to talk to Sally. And I wasn't close, close, like being
4
rude, but it was loud enough that I could hear
5
it, and I'll show you exactly, since you keep
6
asking the same question of me.
And I really
7
do need to go to work tomorrow.
Okay.
8
further than Mr. Dickert and his friends were
9
talking right there between there and the palm
No
10
tree and I was standing right here.
11
(Indicating.)
12
heard that.
13
okay, and I'll say something to, I don't
14
remember his name, okay, but I'll say something
15
and you tell me if you can hear him.
Okay.
So I think I could have
So why don't you come over here,
16
Q
Stay there, please.
17
A
Okay.
18
Q
Mr. Juedes is about six-foot-two?
19
A
Uh-huh.
20
Q
Does that seem about right to you?
21
A
Yeah.
22
Q
Okay.
Think about where he is in relation to
23
that palm tree, would you agree with me that's
24
about 15 feet?
25
A
I said between the palm and this gentleman
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