DEPOSITION OF PENNY SHARP

EXHIBIT A

Case 2:14-cv-00208-JPS Filed 02/23/15 Page 1 of 15 Document 121-12

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UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

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EASTERN DISTRICT OF WISCONSIN

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THOMAS J. HOLMES, et al.

Plaintiffs,

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vs.

Case No. 14-CV-208

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JOHN DICKERT, et al., Defendants.

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13 14 DEPOSITION OF PENNY SHARP 15 16 17 18

TAKEN AT: KOHLER & HART, S.C. LOCATED AT: 735 North Water Street #1212 Milwaukee, Wisconsin February 12, 2015 2:19 p.m. to 8:12 p.m.

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REPORTED BY ANNICK M. JAQUET REGISTERED MERIT REPORTER CERTIFIED REALTIME REPORTER

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Case 2:14-cv-00208-JPS Filed 02/23/15 Page 2 of 15 Document 121-12

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BY MR. FOUKAS:

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Q

That's what I did.

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A

He did.

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And so the unprecedented lawsuit was

suing the union.

5

Q

Okay.

6

A

Obviously.

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Understood.

And an unlimited lawsuit was suing

these businesses.

8

Q

Okay.

9

A

But you don't call somebody a corrupt union

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leader, I'm sorry.

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have a temper, and I wrote this quickly after

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that happened.

13

Q

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Do you hold a grudge against Alderman Wisneski and Alderman Helding?

A

No, I don't even know them, really, I mean, personally I don't know them, no.

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I, like everybody else,

Q

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Have you ever heard John Dickert discuss any of the plaintiffs' bars?

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A

Yes.

20

Q

When did you hear that?

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A

It happened to me in January of 2011.

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Jacqueline Koningsveld had invited all of the

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candidates who were running for office that

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year to our Democratic Party monthly meeting,

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which we never do.

Okay.

We don't invite

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Republicans, Republicans don't invite us.

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That's just kind of one of those things, okay,

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and John was in a group of people and he made

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it very, very clear, and I can say the exact

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words that he said that I heard, and I don't

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even like using that kind of language, but they

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were talking about the distillery that could

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have gone, they said the distillery that could

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have gone in that building, but they were

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talking about Thomas Holmes and the flyers that

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he was sending out.

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that was attracting people from other cities

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and one happened to be from Waukegan and he

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said, "These niggers need to go back to

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Waukegan because they're disturbing the revenue

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here in Racine from the lake, from our

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vacationers with the lake."

18

Q

He had a copy of the flier

I'm sorry, let's -- I'm going to need to break You were at a

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that down a little bit.

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Democratic Party monthly meeting in January of

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2011.

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A

Yes, I was.

23

Q

And John Dickert was present.

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A

Yes, he was, because he was a candidate.

25

Q

And he was a candidate for mayor?

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A

Yes.

2

Q

And you said that there was a discussion amongst --

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A

Him and several other people.

5

Q

A group of people.

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A

Right.

7

Q

Who else was present?

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A

The only person that I remember that was present, were present was Bob Henzl.

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Q

Could you spell Mr. Henzl's name?

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A

H-E-N-Z-L.

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Q

In Milwaukee or in Racine?

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A

Oh, I'm sorry, in Racine.

And he's an attorney here in town.

I'm thinking in town

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meaning we're talking about in Racine, you

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know.

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Q

But it wasn't just --

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A

No, it wasn't just him.

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Q

A conversation between Mr. Dickert and Mr. Henzl?

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A

Uh-uh.

21

Q

That's a no?

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A

That's a no.

23

Q

All right.

were part of this conversation?

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Do you know how many other people

A

Four or five.

I verified that with my husband.

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Q

Was your husband present?

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A

He didn't hear it. didn't hear it.

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He was present, but he

Q

Your husband was at this Democratic Party meeting?

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A

Uh-huh.

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Q

That's a yes?

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A

Yes.

9

Q

When did you verify this with your husband?

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A

Couple of days ago.

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Q

So in thinking about this, your deposition today you talked to him about this meeting?

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A

No.

I just asked him, I said, "How many people

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were standing around me when John said that,"

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because on our way home I told my husband

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immediately.

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Q

And you saw John Dickert with a flier from Park 6?

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A

Yes.

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Q

Did you -- were you a part of the conversation or where were you standing?

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A

No.

The chairs were all kind of set out and in

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a very large square room like this and he was

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about here and I was about to the other

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attorney.

(Indicating.)

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Q

So how many feet away were you when you heard this?

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That's about what, six feet.

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A

Less than six.

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Q

And how many people in between you --

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A

None.

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Q

So you had a straight shot where you could see Mr. Dickert.

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A

Uh-huh.

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Q

That's a yes?

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A

Yes.

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Q

Was there any music playing?

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A

No.

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Q

Where was this Democratic Party meeting?

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A

1840 Sycamore, Racine, Wisconsin, 53405.

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That's the labor temple or the labor hall.

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That's where we always had our meetings.

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Q

the flier?

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And the flier that -- did you personally see

A

Yes.

It wasn't -- all it was was telling them

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about a group that was going to be at Park 6

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that, you know, Friday night.

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Q

And it mentioned Waukegan, the flier itself?

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A

No, it didn't.

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Q

Who brought up Waukegan?

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A

John said this is what one of his friends,

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Q

Do you think --

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A

When he had already interviewed Officer Day and

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he had already interviewed Officer Howell, and

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they had both been lifetime Racine police

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officers.

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Q

shift are racist?

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Do you think the patrol officers on the third

A

You know, when they turn the lights off here in Racine I think if I was those third shift

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parole officers, or patrol officers I would

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have been scared as well.

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dark alley with a flashlight, so I'm not going

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to comment on it whether I think it was a

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biased, you know, whether they were or weren't.

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I don't know.

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Q

Now, you walk down a

You indicated that you left the NAACP because

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they didn't want any white people on the board;

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is that correct?

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A

That's correct.

20

Q

Do you think that the NAACP is racist?

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A

I do.

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Q

You do?

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A

I do.

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Q

Gloria Rogers was the former president,

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correct?

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A

She's been president so many times I -- at least three.

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Q

Do you think Gloria Rogers is racist?

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A

Yes, I do.

you know, when you're in your upper 70s.

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It's hard to change when you're,

Q

You mentioned the Cobb family before.

African-American?

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A

Yes.

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Q

Do you believe that they're racist?

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Are they

•Yes. Q

Al Gardner, you mentioned him before, is he African-American?

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A

Yes.

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Q

Do you believe that he's racist?

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A

He can be.

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Q

You'd indicated before that there are occasions

I don't know if he's...

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when the Union Grove police had some activities

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with connection with the high school.

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recall that?

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A

Do you

I said that, you know, kids are afraid of

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police, yeah, you know, because they stop them

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for, you know, really no apparent reason at

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times, yes.

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Q

Do you believe that the Union Grove -- Union Grove Police Department is racist?

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necessarily have to sign anything to show that

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I was there?

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A

No.

And John never signed a sheet.

I've got

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sheets at home being secretary, and he was

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there and he would never sign his name.

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Q

At this particular event or any event?

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A

No, at any event.

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Q

Where in relation -- and at some point I assume

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that Mayor Dickert offered comments; is that

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correct?

A

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Sure.

He went up to say, you know, like Eric

Marcus did.

Q

The statement that you claim he made with

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respect to the flier, do you remember that

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statement?

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A

Right.

I hated it.

17

Q

Where in relation to his speech, when in

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relation to his speech did that occur?

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before or after?

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A

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Was it

That was way after everybody had almost all left.

22

Q

And he's --

23

A

He was talking to a very few people in a group

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of people, okay, there's like -- like there's

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chairs all lined up like this, okay, but it

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happened to be on their side.

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standing over here.

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there's a refrigerator back out there, and I

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was backing out and I heard him say that.

5

Q

They were

I was backing out because

How many people were still around at the time

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that you claim that he made the statement?

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The people that were in his group were about

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five or six that were standing around his area,

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four, five, six in his area.

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Q

Okay.

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A

But as far as my husband was there because he

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was in his office locking up, and I was there.

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Q

Nobody else that you can recall?

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A

No, because it was late.

I mean, they were all

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ready to go home at 7:30, 8:00, and it was

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10:00.

17

Q

10:00 at night?

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A

Uh-huh.

19

Q

And you don't remember who he was speaking to

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other than Bob Henzl; is that correct?

21

A

That's right.

22

Q

Is Mr. Henzl a Republican or Democrat as far as

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you know?

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A

He's a dem.

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Q

He's a Democrat?

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A

Uh-huh.

2

Q

Yes?

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A

Yes.

4

Q

Did you recognize the other people that Mr. Dickert was speaking to?

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A

No, I did not, and some of them had their backs

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to me and some of the people were probably

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people I wouldn't know.

But you knew Mr. Henzl.

9

Q

Okay.

10

A

Of course I know Bob and Sally.

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Q

Okay.

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A

To the party.

13

Q

You had met him before, though.

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A

Many times.

15

Q

Okay.

16

A

Every time the party met.

They're friends of yours?

They were polite to

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us and we used one of his attorneys in his, for

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our will.

19

Q

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Okay.

So you hear Mr. Dickert make the

statement, correct?

21

A

Right.

22

Q

You don't see anybody in his group react; is

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that correct?

A

They were kind of like pretending that they didn't hear it.

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Q

Well, as far as you only -- how many people could you see, their faces?

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A

Only three.

4

Q

And other people, their backs were to you?

5

A

Right.

6

Q

Okay.

Did Mr. Dickert know that -- was his

back to you or was he facing you?

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A

No, he was facing me.

9

Q

So he could see you, you were near him?

10

A

If he looked.

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Q

Okay.

other that night?

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Did you and Mr. Dickert acknowledge each

A

Did he know you were there?

He always knows I'm there because I'm the But the way he walks in I don't

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secretary.

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expect anybody to say hi to me at all because

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I'm at the far end, they're at the other far

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end, you know, signing in or just sitting down.

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John is always late.

19

Q

than six feet away from him; is that correct?

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A

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Oh, yeah, I mean, I could probably foot it out for you.

Q

And were you just standing there, eavesdropping, or what were you doing?

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And you testified that you were little less

A

Well, I wanted to talk to one of the people

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that were standing there, which was Sally

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Henzl, Bob's wife.

3

Q

So now you recall Sally Henzl being there.

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A

Well, if Bob's there Sally's there.

5

Q

You didn't mention Sally before. of the four to five people?

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A

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Is Sally one

She would have been, yes, she would have

Yes.

been there.

Q

10

Where was Sally standing in relation to Mayor Dickert?

11

A

Her back was to me and she had a red coat on.

12

Q

Where was Mr. Henzl standing in relation to

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Mr. Dickert?

14

A

To the right.

15

Q

Are you and Sara friends?

16

A

Sally.

17

Q

Sally, thank you.

18

A

No.

19

I was inviting her to a women's caucus

event.

But you had talked to her before?

20

Q

Okay.

21

A

No.

22

Q

And you never met Sally?

23

A

Of course I met her, but I'm saying I'm not a

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personal close friend of hers, but I'm saying

25

that I was inviting her to a caucus event, a

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women's caucus event.

1 2

Q

Okay.

3

A

Right.

So you were waiting to talk to Sally.

And I wasn't close, close, like being

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rude, but it was loud enough that I could hear

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it, and I'll show you exactly, since you keep

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asking the same question of me.

And I really

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do need to go to work tomorrow.

Okay.

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further than Mr. Dickert and his friends were

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talking right there between there and the palm

No

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tree and I was standing right here.

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(Indicating.)

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heard that.

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okay, and I'll say something to, I don't

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remember his name, okay, but I'll say something

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and you tell me if you can hear him.

Okay.

So I think I could have

So why don't you come over here,

16

Q

Stay there, please.

17

A

Okay.

18

Q

Mr. Juedes is about six-foot-two?

19

A

Uh-huh.

20

Q

Does that seem about right to you?

21

A

Yeah.

22

Q

Okay.

Think about where he is in relation to

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that palm tree, would you agree with me that's

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about 15 feet?

25

A

I said between the palm and this gentleman

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