DANIEL OSTROFF ON THE EAMES LEGACY by DANIEL OSTROFF

No Preservatives Following the Eames Legacy: A Discussion with Daniel Ostroff by Richard McCoy As originally appeared in art:21 blog, October 3 and 4, 2011

While interest in the work of Charles and Ray Eames remains high, this fall it seems to be peaking: there are countless exhibitions, projects, publications, and auctions that will feature their work, or projects inspired by them. At the Indianapolis Museum of Art, I have been working with Tricia Gilson, Ball State University professor and independent researcher, to study the Eames material contained within the Eero Saarinen-designed Miller House and Garden, located in Columbus, Indiana. Although the Miller House and Garden opened just this year, we’ve already had a lot of scholarly interest in it and its mid-century modern contents. One of the most memorable and knowledgeable visitors we’ve had recently was Daniel Ostroff, who came with some folks from Herman Miller to look at the furnishings in the house. To expand on the conversations we had with him at the Miller House, I invited Tricia to help interview Dan about his work with the Eameses. Development of Aluminum Chairs, with Ray and Charles at left, circa 1958, photograph from Library of Congress.

Daniel Ostroff is a Los Angeles-based film producer, researcher, curator, and collector. He is also the producer and editor of EamesDesign.com, a consultant for Herman Miller, and has been sitting on an Equa Chair behind an Action Office System desk for the past 10 years. Today the exhibition he curated, Collecting Eames: The JF Chen Collection, opens at JF Chen in Los Angeles. The exhibition is part of the Getty’s massive Pacific Standard Time project and consists of 450 pieces, with a corresponding 135 page catalog with a preface by Eames Demetrios and an essay by Dan (available soon on Amazon, or by e-mail here). Also, next month Dan will have an Eames-related book out and another in 2012.

richard m c coy and tricia gilson How did you first start collecting and researching the work of Charles and Ray Eames?

daniel ostroff I am a film producer now, but I was a Hollywood agent before that. In 1987 I opened The Daniel Ostroff Agency in Los Angeles, an agency for screenwriters, directors, and books to film. While I had worked before that as an agent, I had either worked for other companies or with a partner. With my own office I was faced with the prospect of having to furnish the place. I started with rented furniture, and then an artist friend came to visit. He pointed out that given the business that I was in, rented furniture wouldn’t do, and so I asked him what I should get. He replied with a question: “Why buy furniture that depreciates in value?” He told me about a rare Eames desk for sale in San Diego, and my journey began.

Daniel Ostroff in his favorite place in all of Los Angeles, The JF Chen Storage and Study Area. Photo by Grant Taylor.

I bought that desk for a couple thousand dollars. I also made my first collector’s mistake with it: I didn’t listen to the dealer, who was experienced and knowledgeable. There was some rust on the steel frames, and I insisted that he re-chrome it. I wasn’t happy with the results; it was an early lesson in how you should appreciate antique furniture for its honest signs of age. Eventually my collection expanded, and at one point, I had fantastic examples of designs by all of the greats, particularly from the period 1946 to 1989. My collection encompassed both post-war modernism, and post-modern designs. At one point, I had a living room full of great vintage George Nakashima case goods, a rare Eames 3473 Sofa Compact, a Finn Juhl Chieftain Chair, an Achille Castiglioni San Luca Lounge Chair, a Ron Arad Rover Chair, and a Hans Wegner Peacock Chair. Throughout my place were classic Ettore Sottsass designs, too: lighting, case goods, ceramics and enamels.

But the more I collected and the more I learned about design and designers, the more I focused on Eames. Finally, it was only Eames designs that I couldn’t live without. r m/tg And today, you’ve produced and continue to edit the fantastic web resource, EamesDesigns.com, which is a “A Virtual Encyclopedia of all things Eames.” What was the impetus behind starting this web project? do I made that site in collaboration with the Eames family (and with support from the Eames Office), who carry on the legacy of Charles and Ray Eames. The family is very active in carefully supervising the ongoing production of authentic Eames designs, but just as importantly they embody and exemplify their grandparent’s best attributes. Charles and Ray did not believe in the “gifted few” concept. They thought that many of us could do good work, if we care about what we are doing, and are given a chance to try and try again. The Eames family first did this with me when they asked me to write the book Modern Classic: the Eames Plastic Chair. Following on that, they asked me to be their in-house vintage Eames expert, and even though Eames Demetrios very kindly called me a “scholar” when I did that first book, I wasn’t then, but they allowed me to try and learn. For the next five years I answered vintage Eames questions, and I’ve done a fair amount of trying and trying again. EamesDesigns.com

I actually feel that studying Eames designs is a moral imperative. I got my first clue of this when I read something that the great graphic designer, Milton Glaser, said about Charles and Ray: he said words to the effect of, “Charles and Ray Eames showed us all that a design office could have a moral center.” And as you study what they did, what they designed, and how they went about designing it, and the depth to which they thought about not only the user of the design, but also the men and women who would be producing their designs, you really understand that Milton Glaser was understating the case. So after answering Vintage Eames questions for five years, the Eames family felt I was ready for a standalone web site, and they paid for its architecture, by the great design studio t-Sign. By this time I no longer thought of myself as a “vintage Eames” person and I did not think a “vintage Eames” site was what the world needed.

So with support from Eames Office I made Eamesdesigns.com, a virtual encyclopedia of all things Eames. I say “all things,” because another thing you learn in Eames scholarship is that, to paraphrase Charles, “The process is always the same.” The design of a film, the design of a toy, the design of a chair, they followed the same process. There’s another point to this website, it’s not that folks should only study Eames the way they study historical things: it’s that the Eames message is current and ongoing. r m/tg So in what way is the study of Eames designs a moral imperative? do Charles and Ray were business people. Towards the end of their lives they liked to refer to themselves as “tradesmen.” People would come to them with problems, and pay them to solve those problems, and also pay them to design products to be manufactured for a profit. But even though they were in business, and they made money performing a service, and they made money designing goods which were sold for a profit and they got royalties, they never did this without thinking about the impact of their work on society as a whole. They did not make designs without considering what it would be like for the worker on the assembly line. They did not work without considering every possible aspect of the user experience, and not just the user experience for the first few days after you get a product home, but what it’s like to own that product ten years later. They also lived good lives, because they only would work on projects and products that they personally enjoyed—another imperative for them. The last cars Charles and Ray Eames drove were a Jaguar and a Mercedes. They lived a rich full life, lived in a great house with a really big yard, owned their own business, traveled all over the world, and had many friends. Is that so bad? They had five beautiful grandchildren. But they did not do it at the expense of society as a whole. Charles and Ray Eames felt that fun is as an important part of life as just about anything is. I think the world would be a better place if business men and women considered whether they really enjoy what they are doing. Charles and Ray Eames and their manufacturing partners made money giving folks good products that are a good value for the money. We ought to apply the Eames way of thinking to business more, instead of rewarding executives for firing employees. Herman Miller does very well selling Eames designs, and yet they are often ranked as one of the 100 best companies to work for in America. r m/tg Why did you decide to put the Eames Encyclopedia online instead of as a book? do When Eames Demetrios asked me why I wanted to do this Eames encyclopedia online, instead of as a book, I told him I wanted it online as an “encyclopedia” for several reasons: Folks understand that encyclopedias get updated, and this one will

and can be continuously updated. Encyclopedias have many contributors; I hope the world of scholars will participate in this ongoing project. Some might find it odd that scholarship is being done on a site presented by a for-profit business, the Eames Office, but actually, that is consistent with the work of the Eames Office when Charles and Ray were alive, and this is just one of many areas of discovery that unfolded for me when studying Eames work. I’m going to need the help of everyone in the scholarly communities: the museums, universities, collectors, and the knowledgeable dealers, to continue in the high standards of scholarship set by Charles and Ray Eames, with this scholarly site. Catalog Entry for dax 1954 on EamesDesigns. com.

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Where did you get all of the objects that are photographed on the website? do Just as supportive as the Eames family in this project is the JF Chen family: Joel Chen, Margaret Chen, Bianca and Fiona, who bought a collection of Eames material, grew it, and subsidized my work studying the collection the way that Charles Eames said is the best way to study design: by photographing it. (The photographer for this project was Grant Taylor, who does really great work). Actually, The JF Chen Eames Collection started out as my personal collection. Eventually it had grown to 175 Eames pieces, and my storage bills were higher than my rent. The Chens bought the collection and grew it to 400-plus pieces. As you mentioned in the introduction, this collection is the basis of the exhibition, Collecting Eames: The JF Chen Collection. r m/tg Will you describe the JF Chen Eames Collection? do The JF Chen Collection is the most extraordinary Eames collection in the world because it shows great examples from every decade of Eames design production, and it is in that chronology that you can find many of the most important messages, including the moral ones. That collection starts with the Kleinhans Chair of 1939, by Charles Eames and Eero Saarinen, and includes an amazing high back Relaxation Chair, from the landmark 1941 Organic Design competition at MoMA. The last chair in the timeline is a 1998 La Chaise. If you go to see this exhibition, you’ll also see an earlier Eames-

Saarinen design, an incredibly rare 1939 desk they designed for the Crow Island School, which is on loan to JF Chen for the duration of the exhibition. Grant Taylor photographing a RAR 1950 for EamesDesign.com. Photo by Daniel Ostroff.

The importance of this collection and the Chen family’s contribution to world design history can be seen on EamesDesigns. com, because they generously donated 6000 photos to the site: photos that they paid for as I studied this collection over a period of four years. r m/tg In your book, Modern Classic: the Eames Plastic Chair, you write about the Eames’ desire to continue to improve on their designs. From a collector’s perspective, how do the changes in the material of the plastic chair influence notions of connoisseurship?

Let’s take for example one small aspect of an Eames chair, the shock mounts: those rubber elements that are used to attach the chair’s legs to its body. Shock mounts represent on a small scale something that Charles and Ray always did: they always looked to improve upon their past work, to make something better, and their improvements were always in favor of the consumer. The very first shock mounts were solid rubber, and there was no screw involved ( just adhesive). We see that on chairs in the famous Barclay Hotel show of 1945, and then in the MoMA exhibition of spring 1946, New Furniture Designed by Charles Eames. I once owned a rare chair that was exhibited in that MoMA show which had survived with

its shock mount intact. It was a miracle that this shock mount didn’t come off! The underside of a rar 1950 showing early shock mounts from the JF Collection, copyright Eames Office. Photograph by Grant Taylor.

The next iteration involved a screw, and an external metal plate. The metal plate had to be machined separately and this involved added cost, but it was necessary in order to give the screw a secure hold. In the next step, the Eameses came up with a way to make the metal bit integral to the rubber. And with this final step, they gave a better looking product, and one that would cost less to make. Charles and Ray were always about passing the savings along to their customers. The underside of a rar 1950 showing later shock mounts from the JF Collection, copyright Eames Office. Photograph by Grant Taylor.

The first shock mount was interesting, but ultimately couldn’t hold up under a lot of use, but when you study Eames designs closely, you learn that there is one consistent thread, that they were designed with easily repairable, easily replaceable parts. The shock mount is a classic example of this practice. Plenty of Eames chairs from the 1940s and 1950s have survived until today with intact shock mounts. Those that need new shock mounts are relatively easy to fix. What other consumer products from 1946 still look so good, work so well, and are so easy to repair? r m/tg When you visited the ima’s Miller House & Garden this year, we looked at all of the Eames furniture in the house. Of particular note is that you described the Eames psc-1 in a girl’s bedroom as a “marriage of chairs,” a “historic Eames chair;” “like a Japanese ceramic with staples in it.” Is this

a common practice, for owners to marry different Eames chair components together? do I can’t say whether or not it is a common practice, but I am delighted when I see pieces that show signs of attention from their original owners. It means that someone valued this piece enough to modify it to suit their needs. Daniel Ostroff inspects the underside of a customized Eames compact sofa at the Miller House and Garden. Photo by Tricia Gilson.

Now, an important distinction should be made between this practice, what the original owners did, and what some dealers do. I think when an antique dealer makes such changes in order to enhance the value of a piece, he is rendering it valueless. I have my own collection of well-loved, well-used Eames chairs. A couple favorites come to mind: a walnut dcw that I rescued from a dealer before it was refinished; its finish is original and it is engraved overall with a couple decades of what I imagine to be school kids scratching their names into the veneer with pens and pencils. PSC-1 Chair at the Miller House and Gardens (MH2010.41.1). The chair consists of a later base added to an earlier shell. Photo by Tricia Gilson, Copyright Eames Office and the Indianapolis Museum of Art

And then I have a mid 1950s Eames lcm that was originally coated with Eames red aniline dye. But at some point, some owner decided that they needed a chair with antique white paint, and that’s what they put on it, very thickly. I remember from my childhood when

“antique white” was in vogue. I think my parents painted my childhood bedroom furniture with antique white, with that streaky black stuff in it. I think examples like these two are beautiful in and of themselves, but if you have to think something about them, think this: Eames designs look better with age, and also, you can personalize them to your own needs and they still look great. r m/tg What do you think the Eameses would have thought of this practice? do They did it themselves. In the Eames House living room there’s a round George Nelson walnut tabletop on an early Eames solid cast aluminum base. In the Eames House kitchen is another Eames cast aluminum base which supports a square piece of plywood that has a tv on top. Again, this is much different than what many dealers and collectors do now, where they marry various Eames parts to create something that they think is more desirable. I have heard that collectors in Europe are buying Eames shells and bringing them over and putting the shells on reproduction bases. I don’t know what to call those. I guess they are chairs, but they do not have any value in terms of scholarship or connoisseurship. Charles and Ray Eames made complete designs, they did not do “mix and match” kits. If you bought an Eames design for the most part you got it and you get it now, intact, from the factory. That’s what probably has the most value: intact, all original parts, as it left the factory, Eames design. However, I think it’s just as valid to consider seriously pieces that were well-loved and well-used and sometimes well-repaired by their original owners, just like we treasure Windsor chairs that have two centuries of various over painting. r m/tg So they liked their furniture to develop a certain kind of patina? I don’t think they wanted their furniture to develop a patina, I think they wanted to give their customers products that would provide years of service and performance. However, that sometimes folks would love their Eames designs so much that they would repair them, maybe relates to sock darning. Charles often said that his ambition was to have really well-darned socks. And I think darned socks are like an Eames ltr I have, which developed a bit of a separation in the wire base, and this happened after the user used the table as a step stool for twenty years, and this separation was repaired by its original owner, who worked for ten years at the Eames Office, with a bit of coat hanger wire. Ray was the same way. The Eames family does fantastic, historic and meaningful exhibits at the Eames Office at 850 W. Pico in Santa Monica. Once they exhibited some of Charles Eames’ shirts and some of Ray Eames’ dresses. On many you could see signs of re-weaving and darning. Carla Hartman, the Education Director of the Eames Office, tells a

wonderful story about Ray. Ray and Charles were at a party, and they rarely attended parties, they mostly worked seven days a week until eleven at night, and that is not an exaggeration. At the party Ray had her back to one woman who whispered to her companion, upon seeing a darned bit on the back of Ray’s cape, “You’d think Mr. Eames would buy his wife a new cape!” There’s a morality in that too, why throw something away that you love and enjoy and can still use, just because there’s a hole in it? Ray Eames Dress Designs. Photograph from Library of Congress.

R M/TG Last month Jeff Jamieson spoke about how the look of Donald Judd’s

furniture has evolved over time; have you found material that discusses how the Eames thought about their work changing over time? do I have found, over the years, that Charles and Ray expressed themselves very, very well with regard to their designs, and what they were thinking when they designed them. Right now I am working on an anthology of Eames speeches, letters, and interviews. In this project I have found that the Eames’ wisdom is as relevant to today’s problems, as it was to problems in the past. They did not just talk the talk, they walked the walk. Eames Soft Pad Chair acquired from Euro Saarinen-designed bank in Columbus, in. Photo Daniel Ostroff. Copyright Eames Office.

Charles and Ray noted that they thought about how something would look in ten years, in twenty years, in fifty years. Earlier this year I acquired an Eames Soft Pad Chair (ea434), in leather, that was in the Saarinen-designed bank (Irwin Union Bank and Trust) in Columbus,

Indiana. I can tell from the markings and the ink stamped model number on the chair, that the bank acquired this chair in 1970. I acquired it in 2011. That means for 41 years, bankers sat on it. Well, that chair looks more beautiful in some ways, than a new Eames Soft Pad Chair does. And that happened because Charles and Ray considered that when they designed it. There are plenty of things that we buy and sell to one another that look worse when we get them home and use them for a week. In many cases Eames products look better when they are used for a little while. r m/tg As you note in your book, Modern Classic: the Eames Plastic Chair, over the past 60 years the plastic shells of Eames chairs have changed; would you talk about how or if the suppliers for the shells have had an impact on the appearance of the final product? do I suspect that it was more often that “the Eames” (Alexander Girard referred to Charles and Ray as “The Eames”) had an impact on the suppliers, than that the suppliers had an impact on them. Starting with the general, think about anything you do in life. If you play tennis with people who are better than you, you get better at your game. And better is probably the wrong word, because as Charles Eames once said, “Genius, baloney, we just work harder.” And that was true, even in their seventies, Charles and Ray would still be at their office at ten-thirty at night, and often barely made it home in time to watch the eleven o’clock news. Charles and Ray Eames would not delegate understanding, so when they worked with a new material or on a new subject, they worked very hard to understand its properties or its qualities very well themselves. Irv Green and Sol Fingerhut at Zenith Plastics in California. Image Courtesy and Copyright Eames Office.

On EamesDesigns.com there are marvelous interviews with Sol Fingerhut and Irv Green, two men who Charles and Ray impressed into service to make the first industrially-produced plastic furniture. It would be better for people to actually go read the interviews, but I’ll quickly summarize it: World War ii was over, and those two men were looking for clients. During the war they had done some work with plastics, and had worked for Corning. In the interviews they vividly describe how Charles Eames alternately grilled them about their

knowledge of working with plastic, and sold them on the idea that plastic furniture as a good idea. As the relationship developed, Sol and Irv tell stories of working until midnight every night, with Charles and Ray stirring the “soup” so to speak, as Charles and Ray invented new colors for plastic, with names like Elephant Hide Grey and Sea Foam Green. These were not cutesy names, any more than the names of their designs like dcm and dcw are cutesy names. The names that Charles and Ray gave their colors are quite descriptive and practical. Meeting Charles and Ray was the best thing that ever happened to Sol and Irv, and I understand that even after Charles died, Sol and Irv were very attentive and appreciative of Ray. I’m sure this was true of other manufacturers, although I have only begun to scratch the surface of this research. There is so much scholarship yet to be done in regard to the Eameses and manufacturers. If people need to know some topics that need researching, drop me an e-mail or get in touch with me through the website. r m/tg It’s very interesting to consider how the Eameses would have adapted their practice to the “Green Movement.” Do you think the Eameses would have seen a contradiction between the Modern sense of “Good Design” and the Green Movement? do With regard to good design and Charles and Ray Eames I will simply share with you one of my favorite quotes from Charles. That we have this quote is courtesy of the visionary ceo of Herman Miller, Hugh DePree, who cited this in his delightful book, Business as Unusual: The People and Principles at Herman Miller: Once, in discussing the design of Herman Miller’s New York showroom, the words “good design” were used. Charles Eames said, “Don’t give us that good design crap. You never hear us talk about that. The real questions are: Does it solve a problem? Is it serviceable? How is it going to look in ten years? This relates to green design. Let’s not forget something else that can be “green,” a product that is timeless, a product that doesn’t wear out, a product that has easily replaceable and easily repairable parts. How is a plastic spoon, made from soy milk and corn “green”? We use it once, we feel good because the plastic is made of “sustainable soy plastic” or some such, and then we throw it away? I think it’s maybe more “green” to make something that never goes out of style and always works. I was delighted the other day to see in the Apple Store in Santa Monica, Eames airport tandem seating. You know how great Apple design is, but I think that if you go in that store you’ll agree with me, that the Eames seating, which hasn’t changed since it was first designed and introduced in 1961, is the best looking stuff in the store. And it’s practical and comfortable. Fundamental to Charles and Ray’s design of that tandem seating is the fact that the seat and back cushions are interchangeable. It’s one of

the greatest Eames designs ever and we take it for granted because we see it in hundreds of airports all over the world. There are many things I love about airport tandem seating, but here are two. Charles and Ray thought about these two constraints, among others: that the tandem seating be sturdy enough that a weary adult businessman or woman could flop themselves down on it, with a heavy briefcase, and be supported. But light enough and “slide-y” enough, that at the end of the evening, a janitor could easily move it for mopping. And secondly, those interchangeable pads: Imagine you are in charge of resources for an airport. Because the back and seat pads are interchangeable, you only have to order “replacement pads.” You don’t have to send some clerk on your staff around to tell you how many “backs” you need and how many “bottoms.” The pads will last for twenty years or more before they need replacing, and when twenty or thirty years are up, the aluminum and steel frames still look awesome and work great. Staff Member Jim Sommers Sitting in Eames Tandem Sling Seating, circa 1962. Image courtesy Library of Congress.

It’s almost as if many of the ideas that the Eameses were pursuing are as relevant today as they were just after the end of World War ii. do To answer this question, I’d like to reference the Eames Solar Toy of 1959, which is often misunderstood and misnamed the “Do Nothing Machine.” In the book I am working on now it becomes clear that Charles and Ray Eames had generous and wise hearts. When asked by Alcoa to make a “toy” out of aluminum, they demurred. They didn’t think the world needed an “aluminum toy” just for fun and advertising. Many designers participated in the Alcoa Forecast Program, and various things were produced in aluminum, including some furniture and storage systems. When pressed by Alcoa, Charles and Ray did think that there was something the world needed. It occurred to them, in 1959, a “Mad Men” ish world of big gas guzzling cars and martini guzzling ad men, that the world needed reminding that our resources are not infinite, and they made a toy that showed the virtues of a renewable energy source: the sun. About as far from a “Do nothing” device as there ever was, Charles r m/tg

and Ray showed us, in a delightful manner, that the sun can power our devices. Hereâ&#x20AC;&#x2122;s to much more real scholarship to come, about a very relevant design duo, who the world needs now more than ever.

Alcoa Solar Toy advertisement. Charles and Ray wanted to make the world aware of a sustainable, renewable, powerful, cheap, and clean source of energy. Copyright Eames Office.