Deadline Hollywood - Disruptors + Cannes Film Festival - 05/13/19

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ONES TO WATCH Five names to keep an eye on at Cannes

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JESSICA HAUSNER Bringing Little Joe to Cannes’ Competition

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JAMIE BELL Channeling Bernie Taupin in Rocketman

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ASIF KAPADIA Scoring a look into the life of Diego Maradona

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CHLOË SEVIGNY Dealing with zombies for Jim Jarmusch

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BONG JOON-HO Mixing genres with family thriller Parasite

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COLUMN: PETE HAMMOND Defining cinema in the streaming era

Deadline profiles the people, companies and politics changing the face of film and television.

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26 Francis Ford Coppola 38 Nicole Kidman & Per Saari 44 Pedro Almodóvar 45 Sacha Baron Cohen 48 Mindy Kaling 50 Festival Tastemakers 54 James Gunn 56 Taika Waititi 60 Greg Berlanti 62 The Russo Bros.

64 The Fresh Faces of Streaming 65 Jeffrey Katzenberg 66 Wu Jing 67 Steve Golin 68 Charlie Brooker & Annabel Jones 70 Women Behind the Lens 72 Anita Gou 74 Kevin Costner

THE CONTENDERS Deadline’s Emmy event portrait gallery Christina Hendricks photographed

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| Jamie Bell p. 14 | Asif Kapadia p. 16 | Chloë Sevigny p. 18 | Bong Joon-ho p. 20 | The Netflix Conundrum p. 22

Cannes Ones To Watch

Deadline anoints the five names destined to rock this year’s Croisette Deadline’s annual group of Ones To Watch in Cannes is made up filmmakers who are all bringing something fresh to Cannes. The distinction isn’t always reserved for brand new faces; rather, we’ve selected people who are branching out, or who find themselves in waters where they are liable to make waves.

Cannes can be a place of reinvention, after all.

Pippa Bianco AFTER A SUNDANCE TRIUMPH WITH SHARE, THE DIRECTOR EARNS THE RARE TREAT OF A MAJOR FESTIVAL DOUBLE ON THE FRENCH RIVIERA PIPPA BIANCO DOESN’T TAKE AWARDS FOR GRANTED. At this year’s Sundance Film Festival she premiered her debut feature Share emony,” she recalls. “I was not anticipating that part at all.” The story of a young girl, Mandy (Rhianne Barreto), who wakes up after a boozy party to find that a compromising video has gone viral, Share picked up not one but two prizes at the indie festival, one for Bianco’s thoughtful script and another for her star, who received a special jury prize. In Cannes, where Share won the 2015 Cinefondation prize in its original 13-minute form, the director is eligible for the Camera d’Or. Given her past form, she may well win it.

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DA N D OP E RALS K I

and hopped back on a flight to her native New York. “I was back at work when we got the call that we needed to come back for the awards cer-

“Positively Hitchcockian” - VULTURE

“Magnetic… a suspenseful thriller with an emotional punch.”

REMEMBER TO CONSIDER

- THE NEW YORK TIMES

I N O U T S TA N D I N G D R A M A S E R I E S A N D A L L OT H E R C AT E G O R I E S

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CANNES ONES TO WATCH How did you find Rhianne Barreto, who plays the girl?

I think we went through 500 girls or something. And I just couldn’t find anybody. You know, I think— especially in the U.S.—there’s so much pressure from the star system on young actresses to be actresses/models/pop stars/ Instagram influencers, and so I find that, often, young people look and perform in a certain way.

My casting director, Avy Kaufman, was like, “For what you’re looking for, you’re going to find the talent in the U.K., or Australia, or somewhere where theater is the underpinning of the craft, not necessarily fame.”

That was definitely true, I think. And SHARE SCENES Pippa Bianco collects her Sundance screenwriting prize (left). She found herself in her element on set (right).

Rhianne came out of that.

Is it true that she couldn’t get a

Where did the story for Share

more obviously active—they do

you print alone, you show alone—it’s

work visa?

come from?

something to somebody. It’s much

a very solitary lifestyle. So I thought,

Yeah, we tried. We had three

It’s so hard for me to say. I had a

easier to tell a story, or structure a

What’s an artform that involves

appeals. We applied for the work

friend—two friends actually—who’d

story, around someone who is very

more people? One I can actually do,

visa, each time she was granted

been involved in something sort of

apparently an active protagonist.

because I’m not musical. I thought,

it based on her qualifications,

Well, I guess filmmaking has a lot

and then when she went for the

So, to me, the interesting thing

made videos. And one in particular

was the person on the other end

more people. I like being in a team.

interview her heritage was at issue.

was a very good friend of mine.

of that equation—to tell the story

So I applied for some PA jobs on

Her father was born in Iraq, and they

I wasn’t involved personally, he

from the perspective of the person

Craigslist, and that was it. I really fell

said things to her like, “You don’t

was just a friend who confessed

who is experiencing it without using

in love with it.

look British to us. Do you speak

to me that he’d done something

any kind of artificial device, like a

similar, although the situation was

revenge story or a detective story.

The short won the Cannes

different. The sex was consensual.

And from there I began interviewing

Cinefondation Award in 2015,

It wasn’t the same [as the situation

a lot of people who have gone

didn’t it?

had Congressional support. We had

shown in the film]. But he wasn’t

through a similar experience.

Yeah, we won the first prize there,

letters from Chuck Schumer, Kirsten

which was very lucky and random.

Gillibrand, Elizabeth Warren—all

someone who fit any kind of

Arabic?” She was mysteriously denied every single time we tried.

By the second or third appeal we

stereotype of the kind of person

How did you find those people?

who could do that to somebody.

I made the choice to only seek out

When you went back to make

incredibly kind of them. But even

people who had already been looking

the feature version of Share, did

still, we were denied. We appealed

to be outside yourself when you’re

for a public platform. There were

you start from scratch or did you

all the way up to Homeland Security

behind a camera, and how easy

obviously people whose cases had

refer back to the original?

and were denied.

it is to dehumanize somebody

been publicized, but who wanted

I had two images in my mind. I knew

else, and objectify them—to be so

to remain anonymous, and I didn’t

how the film would end, and I knew

So then you decided to move the

distanced from your own ethical

think it would ethical to approach

how it would start. The start I kept

shoot to Canada?

decision-making. I’m not excusing

people who wanted their privacy. At

from the short, so I had those two

Yeah. I mean, I did try to shoot in

that behavior in any way by saying

that point in time when I made the

things intact. But the middle? Didn’t

America. I tried very hard. But then it

that. But why does it happen so

short [2014], there were fewer girls

have it [laughs]. Still, I knew who I

was like, are we going to fire Rhianne

frequently? That question stuck in

willing to do that, but obviously the

wanted this person to be. And I had

and penalize her for the way she

my mind: how does someone who is

world changed quite a bit once I was

the guiding principle that I was not

looks and where her father was

good friends with women and loves

making the feature.

going to use any elevated devices

born? Or are we going to figure it

to make this a more interesting, or

out in some other way? It became a

How did you get into filmmaking

more entertaining, or more active

much more complicated production

I was struck by how easy it is

women—how can that person do this to someone they care about?

the New York senators. Which was

in the first place?

story. I forced myself to find active

at that point, but everybody felt like,

So why did you choose to tell the

In college I’d gone for fine arts,

choices in what people might often

“Well, if we don’t support this kind

story from the girl’s point of view?

studying painting and photography.

dismiss as passive choices. She was

of immigration policy, we shouldn’t

It’s much easier to see a way into

But I was just really… lonely [laughs].

not going to go after this guy, or kill

cave to it.” Luckily, Canada gave us

a story about a perpetrator than

I was like, “I’ll be working alone

herself, or become a detective, if you

all work visas, and it worked out fine

a victim, because they’re much

forever.” Because you shoot alone,

know what I mean.

in the end. —Damon Wise

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RE X /S H U T T ERSTO CK /SABR I N A L A NT H OS

similar as perpetrators. Men who’d

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CANNES ONES TO WATCH

Mati Diop WITH ATLANTICS, THE FRENCH-SENEGALESE DIRECTOR BECOMES THE FIRST BLACK WOMAN WITH A COMPETITION BERTH

FRENCH-SENEGALESE FILMMAKER AND ACTRESS Mati Diop has been considered a talent to watch ever since she made her on-screen debut in Claire Denis’ 35 Shots of Rum. She has starred in movies including Antonio Campos’ Simon Killer and directed prize-winning shorts and thoughtful documentaries, including 2013’s A Thousand Suns.

Diop’s Cannes Competition entry Atlantics, her narrative feature debut, follows a 17 year-old woman whose lover leaves Senegal by sea in hope of a better future.

Lorcan Finnegan

“I wanted to evoke the reality of an entire generation of young Senegalese,” she says. “If some made it to Spain, thousands perished at sea. This tragedy left a great mark on Senegal. It also left a mark on me. I want-

THE IRISH DIRECTOR OF DARK,

ed to write a film from the point of view of the woman

PRIMAL FANTASY BRINGS

who remains. It became the story of Ada, a young girl

HIS VIVARIUM TO CRITICS WEEK

who loses her lover at sea and who will have to make a rediscovery of herself.”

“I’VE ALWAYS LOVED FABLES

who encounter strange happenings

and parables,” says Lorcan

in a mysterious housing develop-

leads Ndeye Binta Sane, Amadou Am and Ibrahima

Finnegan. “Stories that entertain

ment. Says Finnegan, “It’s a dark,

Traore was among the main challenges.

but carry a message or warning.

twisted, surreal story about the kind

I grew up on faery stories, ghost

of life many are tricked into living and

train them, and make them credible actors and mag-

stories and reading Greek and

trapped within. Imogen and Jesse

nificent heroes,” she explains. “After months of intense

Roman mythology, and being Irish,

are brilliant in it.”

casting, I finally found the rare pearls I was looking for.”

I’m genetically drawn towards the liminal, twilight world.”

Finnegan caused a stir on the

Although he studied graphic

The film was five years in the making. Finding her

“Not only finding them in the streets like I did, but to

Now Diop is making Cannes history as she becomes

design before moving into motion

the first black woman filmmaker to have a film in the

graphics, Finnegan has enjoyed a

festival’s main competition.

genre circuit in 2016 with the psy-

parallel life as a filmmaker since his

chedelic woodlands horror Without

teens. “My dad bought a little Sony

pretend it isn’t,” she admits. “I am well aware of the rarity of

Name, in which a land surveyor is

camcorder and I made a college

women competing in Cannes, especially non-white wom-

driven insane by something oth-

project called Boy Walker,” he says,

en. It’s sad and still hard to believe that a black woman has

erworldly in the forests outside

“which was a fake trailer for an over-

never been to the competition so far, in 2019, but here we

Dublin. “It did well at festivals,”

the-top Elves and the Shoemaker

are. This is both a bitter observation because it’s time that

Finnegan recalls, “but it mostly

story. It was my first time shooting

it should stop being an exception, and at the same time, it

receded back into the twilight from

and editing something and I loved

tells us that the lines are moving.” —Andreas Wiseman

whence it came. Some people

it.” After graduating, Finnegan made

are discovering it on Amazon or

“lots of sketch comedy with my

iTunes and are digging it, but that’s

friends, shooting and editing and

enough for me. It’s a hidden gem.

‘acting,’” before meeting producer

Career-wise, it had a bit of profile

Brunella Cocchiglia, with whom he

by premiering in the Vanguard

collaborated on the 2007 shorts

section at TIFF and getting decent

Defaced, Changes and 2012’s Foxes.

critical reaction, which helped financing and casting of Vivarium.”

Premiering in Critics Week, Vi-

“Weirdly enough I was on a walk with my dad and Brunella in Massey Woods, one of the locations where we

varium is another brush with the oth-

shot Without Name, when I got the

erworldly, starring Jesse Eisenberg

news about Cannes. It was surreal,” he

and Imogen Poots as a couple

laughs, “and it still is.” —Damon Wise

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“From a symbolic point of view, this is major, and I can’t

LOST AT SEA A still from Diop’s film Atlantics, which follows a woman grieving for her drowned lover.

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CANNES ONES TO WATCH

Danielle Lessovitz WITH SCORSESE BACKING HER FEATURE DEBUT, PORT AUTHORITY, THE FILMMAKER COMES TO UN CERTAIN REGARD HISTORICAL HOMAGE Ly’s Les Misérables echoes the unrest of Victor Hugo’s classic, but is a brand new story of modern Paris.

Ladj Ly AS A FIRST-TIME FILMMAKER STRAIGHT INTO COMPETITION,

DANIELLE LESSOVITZ’S

who had the status and power for

FEATURE directing debut—and

someone trying to court them.”

Un Certain Regard entry—Port

Lessovitz was not familiar with

Authority follows Paul (Fionn

the kiki ballroom scene, but was

Whitehead), who arrives at the

intrigued by the family aspect after

titular bus station and quickly

attending a ball. She had lost her

meets eyes with Wye (Leyna

father to suicide. “Everyone there

Bloom), a girl voguing on the side-

related to everyone in the chosen

walk. An intense love blossoms,

family sense. It was powerful for

but when Paul discovers that Wye

me in terms of understanding loss

is trans, he is forced to confront

and family and life and death.”

his own identity. A love story set in

She cast transgender actor

the kiki ballroom scene—the LGBT

Bloom in the role of Wye, never

WHENEVER A FIRST-TIME FEATURE DIRECTOR makes it into

subculture that includes competi-

having considered going the

the Cannes Film Festival Competition it’s worth taking notice. Only

tive performances and dance—it

cisgender route. “If trans actors

a small handful have achieved the honor in recent years, and one,

boasts Martin Scorsese as a

aren’t playing cis roles, then

László Nemes back in 2015, took his Son of Saul all the way from the

producer via his company Sikelia’s

why vice-versa?” For Paul, she’d

Croisette to the Foreign Language Film Oscar. This year, Ladj Ly has

joint venture with RT Features to

initially thought about bring-

the distinction of being the sole debutant with Les Misérables, not

foster emerging filmmakers.

ing on a non-actor but needed

THE LES MISÉRABLES HELMER’S STAR IS ON THE RISE

adapted from, but echoing the civil unrest of Victor Hugo’s classic 1862 novel of the same name, and set in today’s Paris.

Ly is a French actor and documentary filmmaker who hails from

Lessovitz says Port Authority was inspired by a performance of Antony and the Johnsons she

someone with the experience to hit the emotional beats.

As for the Scorsese-factor,

the Parisian suburb of Montfermeil, which inspired the setting of

caught about 10 years ago. Lead

Lessovitz marvels, “I was at a

the Hugo novel. To give a hint at expectations for Ly’s film, Vincent

singer Antony (who is now Anohni)

party and someone asked me if

Maraval, the co-founder of Wild Bunch, describes Ly’s talent thus:

“felt very clearly like the spirit of

it was exciting to show the rough

“Ladj is a ray of sunshine in a peevish cinematographic landscape.

a woman in a male-presenting

cut to Marty. I said, ‘No, I feel like

He’s the new boss, and no one knows it yet.”

body. I wondered what a love story

I’m showing a crayon drawing as a

Although he’s new to the Cannes festival Competition, Ly is no industry neophyte. He was also a founding member of the

would be with Antony as the cen-

preschooler to a master painter.’”

ter of affection and the person

—Nancy Tartaglione

Kourtrajamé artists collective in the ’90s. The group, which also includes filmmaking co-founders Kim Chapiron and Romain Gavras, announced last September the creation of a free film school open to students over 18 regardless of whether they already hold a diploma, situated not far from Montfermeil.

Ly was lauded for his 15-minute 2016 short of the same name about a young policeman whose first arrest goes terribly wrong. The short was nominated for a César and won the Canal+ Award at the prestigious Clermont-Ferrand International Short Film Festival in 2017.

Les Misérables centers on Stéphane, who has recently joined the Anti-Crime Brigade in Montfermeil. Alongside his new colleagues Chris and Gwada—experienced members of the team—he quickly discovers tensions running high between neighborhood gangs.

When they find themselves overrun during the course of an arrest, a drone captures their every movement. Inspired by the riots of 2005, Ly explores contemporary Montfermeil more than 150 wyears after Hugo, with the similarities between today’s angry youth and the petit Gavroche only too clear. —Nancy Tartaglione

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CHOSEN FAMILY Port Authority explores love and the sense of community within New York’s kiki ballroom scene.

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DIALOGUE wrote it, and only afterwards did I

Jessica

HAUSNER

After three films in UCR, the Austrian director takes a bow in Competition with her English-language debut

start to do some research on hotels.

But the film is mostly intellectual, so it wasn’t necessary to do a lot of research. It was really just the idea: a horror film without a monster. That was the logline of that film.

For Lourdes, I thought, Well, a miracle is supposed to be something positive. But what if it isn’t?

BY DA M O N W I S E

You like to choose female protagonists. Is that something that is important to you or is

IT’S FIFTH TIME LUCKY FOR AUSTRIA’S JESSICA HAUSNER, who has had a strong Cannes presence since her unsettling debut Lovely Rita premiered there in 2001. After returning with the Lynchian 2004 thriller Hotel, Hausner took 2009’s provocative French religious drama Lourdes to compete in Venice before coming back to the Croisette in 2014 with the literary romance Amour Fou. Now she follows Austrian stalwarts Michael Haneke and Ulrich Seidl into the major league with a cautionary British-set sci-fi called Little Joe, in which Emily Beecham stars as Alice, a single mother and plant breeder who has created a flower remarkable for both its beauty and its therapeutic properties.

that something that comes That’s quite intellectual for a 16

naturally to you?

year old…

Both. It’s natural and it’s important.

Yes [laughs]. I loved Ingmar Bergman, as I think you can tell!

In the beginning, I didn’t plan to do it. It was not on purpose, it was just very natural. But later I under-

What did you set out to achieve

stood it does have a meaning for

with your debut film, Lovely Rita?

filmmakers, and also for an audi-

At that time I had just finished film

ence, because for a long time those

school, and I was very much frustrat-

kinds of films did not exist—female

ed and annoyed about the fact that

characters were either intelligent

filmmaking was very male. And all the

but ugly, or sexy but stupid. I always

stories that were being told—all the

thought, My God, where am I in

heroes that I would want to be—were

between those different ideas?

always men.

So, for example, in Little Joe, Alice,

What’s Little Joe about?

Was filmmaking always a goal?

Also, I was always very much in-

I would say that, at the center of the

Yes. At quite a young age I wanted

terested in psychology. This is maybe

looking, but she’s also intelligent—

film, is the idea of Frankenstein. Fran-

to be a writer, and I wrote a

something that’s a bit of a red line

she’s the scientist who starts it all.

kenstein invented a monster and lost

novel when I was 12. But then, by

through my films. I don’t know if you

It’s just interesting for me to show

control over it. And, in my film, Alice

chance, I had a friend who had a

know about this theory of Sigmund

all the very different types of female

is a scientist who invents a monster

video camera. His father worked

Freud, that a young man tries to kill

characters that there can be.

and she also loses control over it.

in television, so it was a huge

his father—it’s a psychological idea

Maybe the special point about the

video camera that we were able

he invented or he described—but I

How do you like to work with

film is that she also has a son, and

to borrow, and we made a film

thought, Why does it have to be a

your actors? Do you like to leave

the son is the second monster. So

out of one of my short stories.

young man? So the film that I wanted

them alone, or do you work

she has two monsters, and both are

After that, I suddenly realized that

to make was about a young girl killing

closely with them?

doing whatever they like, and she

I definitely preferred to express

her parents. That was really the initial

Everything is quite composed.

loses control over both of them. That

myself through images rather

idea: a young girl, one that doesn’t

Everything on the set—every move-

locks her up in a situation where she

than words.

look at all very brutal or very mean, is

ment, every gesture—is very much

the one who kills her parents.

on purpose.

can’t move backwards or forwards.

What I like about images is the things that are unspoken, and I

the female protagonist, is very good-

We rehearse a scene, and then

Would you call it a genre film?

think I was always better with im-

How do you approach screen-

everyone knows exactly where to

I think it’s better to say that maybe

ages than with words. So I found

writing?

go and when. Sometimes actors

it’s a film that plays around with the

it very fulfilling to transform my

I start with a very short idea. Mostly

don’t like to work like that, because

genre. It’s an important difference. In

stories into images.

it’s one line that I know my film will

it’s more like the choreography for a

be about.

ballet. Some actors like it, but others

genre films, you obey the rules. But with Little Joe we don’t really follow

What was the first film about?

all the rules.

It was about a young man who

ries, or do research. I do interviews. I try

sibilities. But I was lucky with Little

gets lost in a maze [laughs]. I was

to investigate the surrounding areas

Joe, because all of the actors were,

Are you interested in genre?

16. It was a kind of melodramatic

of the topic. And then I write a very

I think, quite comfortable with that

Yes, very much. Those are the films I

and slightly surrealist story. While

short version of it—like, two pages.

sort of method, and we had quite

grew up with, and those are the films

he’s lost in the maze he tries to

That takes a year, mostly, the research

a lot of fun. It was a really positive

that I thought were the state of the

escape, but he only gets deeper

and those two pages, until I think it’s all

atmosphere. And every one of them

art. And yet it’s a sort of convention

into it. In the end he’s playing a

really in there in those two pages.

sort of agreed that that was the right

that I always try to question... Yeah, I

game of chess, and if he wins he

think genre is a little old-fashioned.

can escape.

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And then I start to read other sto-

Hotel, my second film, was the exception—I wrote it very fast. I

feel diminished in their own pos-

method: we were all a group of dancers, and I was their choreographer. ★

PHOTOGRAPH BY

Evelyn Rois

DIALO GUE

Jamie

BELL

How Rocketman’s Bernie Taupin embraced the honesty of Dexter Fletcher’s Elton John biopic

BY J O E U T I C H I

ACTORS LOVE TO BOAST ABOUT THEIR RANGE, but in a pair of movies releasing in 2019, Jamie Bell will get to demonstrate his. Premiering at Cannes is Rocketman, directed

by Dexter Fletcher. In the musical biopic of the life of Elton John, Bell plays John’s longtime songwriter Bernie Taupin.

And in a complete 180, Guy Nattiv’s Skin, which premiered at TIFF and will release later this year, casts Bell as a neo-Nazi struggling with his past. Absent from Cannes as he readies for a new baby with wife Kate Mara, Bell revels in the shades of gray he found in both stories.

with that stuff if it was glossed over,

very nervous about stepping into this

and I appreciate that.

role—and I’m sure to some degree, he is. But the way that he attacked

What was Dexter Fletcher like as

this performance, I really didn’t see

a collaborator?

any of it. It really did become like a

He really charges the set; he really

second skin to him.

charges people. When you’re around

He was always advocating for

him, there is this extra kind of spark,

Elton as a real human being. In some

and it’s based in having fun, which

of these studio movies, they might

I think is very different and actually

want to sanitize and not want to look

quite refreshing. I’ve worked with a

in certain areas—but he and Dexter

lot of filmmakers through the years

both were always advocating that

where, if we’re at work, we all have to

the character sometimes not be lik-

be quite serious, and not particularly

able, sometimes be really fucked up,

enjoying ourselves. It has to be quite

and be really hard to watch.

gruesome and quite self-flagellating and all that stuff. But he really enjoys

Let’s pivot—dramatically—to

having fun. He likes to pump up the

your other role this year, in Skin.

crew, he’s very loud.

You play a neo-Nazi forced to

And he’s an actor at heart, you

reckon with his beliefs. It’s a top-

know? That element can never be

ic that feels dangerously more

removed from him. He’s perform-

relevant day by day. Were you

ing along with you, and I really

surprised by what you learned?

appreciate that as an actor. I think

There are certain elements about

sometimes you can almost feel like

the story that are really unexpect-

you’re doing it in a vacuum. Having

ed. The fact that this hardened,

someone who’s interacting with you

basically career Nazi, whose life

on that level is just very engaging and

could be so affected by these little

We last met at a post-BAFTAs

was involved in the musical, so he’s

opens up different avenues that you

girls that come into his life—these

event in 2018, and as we were

always been in my orbit to some

hadn’t thought about.

children—and how they make him

speaking, Taron Egerton came

degree. Not a huge degree, but we’ve

up to introduce himself to you.

been somehow cosmically tethered

You broke through in this indus-

Had you been approached about

together in a way.

try as a dancer, in Billy Elliot. is it

I feel this is certainly a singular

Rocketman beforehand?

feel, and the kind of questions that they ask of him.

fair to say you got stuck into the

story about a man who had been

That is actually the first time that we

obviously intrigued. I was especially

song and dance of it all?

morally corrupted from 14, and

had met—you did see the genesis

intrigued because it was also written

I do a little bit of singing in the film. I

indoctrinated into hate. Through the

of that friendship there. I’d known

by Lee Hall, who wrote Billy Elliot, so

thought that was the more intrigu-

generosity and kindness of complete

about him and obviously I’d seen his

that synergy kind of continues.

ing part of the role: no one ever

strangers, even with threats against

hears the songwriter actually sing.

his own life and to those people

So when I got the script, I was

work, so I was very excited to meet him and tell him how good I thought

It’s become a bit of a joke that

To actually hear what comes out of

around him that he loves, he man-

he was. So it was a shared, mutual

authorized music biopics will

the man who is the mind behind the

aged to get out and change his life.

appreciation kind of meeting. But

attempt to paper over the cracks.

words, to see him actually perform

that was the first time.

How is this different?

something. I really loved that I got to

and it’s very difficult to leave a group

Families are so embroiled in it,

And then I went off to make

I was enamored by how ballsy the

play that moment, and just to get to

like that once you’re in it. There are

another film—Skin—a film entirely

project was, to be honest. I think

play it for Bernie, too.

threats against your life, and all dif-

different to this one, that required

there’s a beautiful vulnerability to

much different kinds of elements

Elton John. He has really laid himself

ing in the film at all. None. I was like,

of myself.

bare for decades, and that certainly

“OK, sure.” But I was also like, “I hope

You went from this straight into

hasn’t stopped just because a movie

we’re not missing the beat here.” I

Rocketman?

gestating about Elton John, and my

is being made about him. I think he

just hope that people aren’t expect-

I did! I put on 20 pounds for that

relationship with Elton John goes

went into this going, “If I’m going to

ing it and then going, “Why is he not

and got a bit of a gut and everything

all the way back to Billy Elliot. I met

do this, I have to show every part of

fucking dancing?” [laughs]

else, and then very quickly had to

him for the first time when I was

me.” So, it can’t be sanitized in any

a child, after the screening of Billy

way, and it shouldn’t be. He’s been

What did you make of Taron’s

which are incredibly tight pants.

Elliot at the Cannes Film Festival.

through some stuff that I think a lot

work as Elton?

To be honest, I was so relieved to be

That was the first time I’d ever met

of people also struggle with—sexual

I think there’s a fearlessness to his

a part of Rocketman, a movie which

anyone that famous, and that was

identity issues, substance abuse, all

performance, from what I saw, but

is just so joyous and celebratory, and

quite overwhelming for me. He was

kinds of serious, important issues. I

also just from Taron as a person. He

hearing those songs every day, and

so lovely and so supportive of that

think he would feel like he would be

would probably say on the record

wearing the funky clothes. It was a

film, and obviously since that, he

undermining those people who deal

that he’s terrified, and that he was

relief to go to work.★

I’d known that something was

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But I actually don’t do any danc-

ferent kinds of reasons to stay.

get back into those ’70s disco pants,

PHOTOGRAPH BY

Michael Buckner

DIALOGUE and Amy, because I was putting

Asif

KAPADIA

The Oscar-winning Amy documentarian returns to Cannes with a new film about Diego Maradona

the film together from footage and interviews with other people.

I knew when I went back to talk to him our time would be short and precious and I’d have to really know what I was talking to him about. I didn’t that first time. But then, as we went along, I suppose I got a bit pushier or tougher with the questioning, to make sure we

BY J O E U T I C H I

dealt with all the important things and told an honest story.

ASIF KAPADIA HAS DIRECTED TWO INCREDIBLY compelling documentaries about the lives—and untimely deaths—of Ayrton Senna and Amy Winehouse. He returns to Cannes to complete the third part of his unique trilogy with Maradona, this time detailing the brilliant, troubled life of the still very much alive soccer icon Diego Maradona. After winning the Oscar for Amy, all eyes will be on this similar-but-different doc, which pulls unseen footage from the 1980s as well as new interviews with the people around the star, and Maradona himself. But how has meeting his subject changed things?

Was he resistant to anything in they’ll say something different.

those moments?

That becomes part of the fun, I

Really, no. I think you’ll have to be the

suppose, and the challenge. How

judge of it, but I’m hoping it’s honest.

do you tell the story when the

But also, all these films are made

essential character has a different

with love. You make a film like this

version of the story to what the

and you’re going to feel for the char-

footage is showing?

acters. You understand them a bit better. You understand the psychol-

How quickly did the relationship

ogy, and you understand why they

form? I’d heard that he saw and

react and do the things they do.

liked Senna.

It’s complex because you’re

Is Maradona of a piece with your

life predates me making Senna and,

He was a very big Ayrton Senna

dealing with charisma as well.

previous documentaries Senna

probably at the time, I was thinking

fan, because they were both huge

You’re dealing with people

and Amy, or is it a different beast?

about it in a fictional sense; casting

in Italy at the same time. That was

who have a gift and a talent for

It’s a good question, because I’m

an actor to play him.

the interesting thing about doing

something. They click their fingers

almost the worst person to ask.

research, is that you’d open the

and everybody does what they

Obviously, there are similarities.

is very different to other films that

newspapers of the time, flip to the

want, and it’s quite hard for those

I think Maradona himself, in many

have been made about Maradona,

sports pages, and on one page

people to hear the word ‘no’. So

ways, has lots of elements which

or the books that have been writ-

you’d have Ayrton, and the other

that process was important, and I

are similar to Ayrton Senna, a Latin

ten about him. We’re coming in as

would be Diego. Diego won the

hope the film gets there.

American hero. He has similarities to

recently as possible.

championship in 1990 in Naples,

Amy Winehouse because he had is-

I’ve hopefully made a film that

But we also have this footage…

He did say something, at some

and that was the same year Senna

point, during what I felt was prob-

won the world championship.

ably going to be the final inter-

sues with addiction and lots of prob-

Like with Senna and Amy, we have

lems. But he’s a whole other beast in

this material from the time shot

Physically meeting him was a

view, and so I really had to deal

that he’s alive, he’s around, he’s still

with personal camera people,

challenge. He was in Dubai, and

with a lot of the serious issues.

doing things constantly, whenever

because this team was going to

getting there and getting to meet

He looked at me and said, “You

you think you’ve got an ending.

make a film about Diego Maradona

him was difficult because you

know, I’ve got to give you one

in the ’80s. So it’s unseen footage

never really knew if he would keep

thing. You’ve got a nerve asking

You didn’t start those films as a

shot in the early ’80s and we put it

the meeting. If he would feel up to

me these questions to my face.

self-described fan of their work,

together in 2019.

it, or if he would be in the mood.

Most people would say it behind

That first meeting took quite a

my back, but not to my face.” And

but I know you’re a big football fan. What was your relationship

Tell me about building up to

few days just to physically meet.

there was a bit of a pause, and he

to Maradona?

meeting him.

We shook hands, took a couple of

said, “But, for that, I respect you.”

I am a big football fan. I think that’s a

I did the same thing I did on the oth-

pictures, and then it was, “I’m not

bit different, because I probably knew

er films. I spoke to his kids, I spoke

feeling great, come back tomor-

now, let me ask you the question

a bit more about Diego than the other

to his ex-wife, to friends of his, his

row.” By then we’d been waiting

again.” He’s a master of diversion.

two when I started those films. I’d

trainer, all of his core team that have

for a week, so I said, “I’m going to

You ask him one question and he’ll

actually read books about Maradona

been around him. Ex-teammates,

fly home and get on with the film,

answer about something else. That

while I was at university, which I’d

managers, coaches, everybody.

and we’ll do this again.”

something else is really interesting,

never done with Senna or Amy.

I was like, “Cool, OK, great. So

Diego, being Diego Maradona…

It was a short meeting but it was

So I knew more about his life,

Sometimes—how can I put this?—

a good taste of, “OK, in the end I just

of phrase and knows how to throw

and it always felt like, “Wow, what

he might not be the most reliable

have to make the film, and when

a bomb in. I would say, “Yeah, but

a crazy life this guy has led. What

witness to his own story. He has a

I know what it is, I’ve actually got

that’s not what our film is about.

a character.” And the feeling like I

way of creating his own myth, and

questions to ask him.” The pressure

It’s about this. Come back to the

wanted to make a film about his

then you talk to someone else and

then did become similar to Senna

point I was asking you about.” ★

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and he’s really got a brilliant turn

PHOTOGRAPH BY

Eric Schwabel

DIALOGUE me. And you’re like, “Oh yeah, right.

Chloë

Where are all the ladies?” And

SEVIGNY

that’s very hard.

Doing Jim Jarmusch’s movie, the day when I was a zombie was the most comfortable day for me because I was like, “None of these men are going to be sexualizing

As a director, she brings short White Echo to Cannes, and as an actress, reteams with Jim Jarmusch on The Dead Don’t Die

me or looking at me in that way.”

Not that I’m thinking, Oh my God, all these men are judging me all

BY NA N C Y TA RTAG L I O N E

the time. But in a way they are, you know? And I don’t know if that’s more telling about who I am or how I see things, but that was

CHLOË SEVIGNY IS BACK IN CANNES THIS YEAR, pulling double duty with a role in Jim Jarmusch’s opening night zombie ensemble, The Dead Don’t Die, and premiering her third short as director, White Echo. Black comedy The Dead Don’t Die marks a re-team for Sevigny and Jarmusch, with whom she’s made three films, including 2005’s Broken Flowers, which also bowed in Cannes. Sevigny says she’d “do anything with him”.

This year’s pairing unfolds in the peaceful town of Centerville which finds itself battling a zombie horde.

understand women. There’s also,

the best day.

all these films are about myself. All these films are about wanting recog-

Previously you’ve said one of

nition or for people to see something

the things you’ve learned while

in you and finding your own confi-

directing was having to be a

dence to be who you are. They’re

resourceful problem solver. What

all ultimately about me [laughs]. I

are your thoughts now that

mean, I like boys, I like sleeping with

you’ve directed three shorts?

boys and flirting with them. But I’m

I still think being malleable is kind of

more interested in hanging out with

the most important aspect of film-

girls and talking to girls. Also, I still

making; and being open to other

You been up those red-carpeted

many. I did watch The Walking Dead

have a bit of that thing about the

people’s ideas, and being collab-

steps a number of times before,

for a little while. I got caught in that

patriarchy, or that sexual tension or

orative. As far as other filmmakers

but do you get an extra kick out

crack cocaine loophole. But I was

whatever it is, about being objecti-

and actors I’ve worked with, when

of it when you find out you’re in

like, I’m not insane about the genre,

fied. It always kind of gets in the way

they get stuck in something they’ve

the Cannes opening night movie?

but I’m insane about Jim. I’ll do any-

for me when I’m talking to men, and

envisioned [a certain way], you can

It’s so fun. In fact, I was offered to go

thing with him.

I’m trying to learn how to get around

see how frustrated they get when

that and not care about that. With

you’re not doing it the way that

women I just feel more at ease.

they propose. I feel like that’s very

to a press screening prior to Cannes to see the film, but there’s nothing

You’re also in Cannes with your

like that feeling of seeing the movie

third short. How did the White

for the first time with the cast in the

Echo story come together?

Is that in a general everyday

a good place to be in and I don’t

Palais and everybody’s so emotional.

I was just thinking of wanting to

sense or more specifically within

think it benefits anyone. So I was

So I was like, “I want to wait, I want

become a director and how you con-

the film business?

very open to the girls’ ideas on the

to have that magical experience

vince people, or convince yourself,

More in the film business. We’re talk-

set [of White Echo]. Being prepared

that’s like nothing else.” It’s always so

that you have that ability. I was also

ing about it, we’re more vocal about

as much as you can be and having

overwhelming and so fun.

thinking about girls in Los Ange-

it, but it still feels pretty old-fash-

your own arsenal of ideas to throw

les I know who are into tarots and

ioned. Especially when you walk on

at them as a director, which you

Can you describe your character

witchcraft and whatnot—there’s this

set. I was making The Act in Savan-

always hope a director would take,

in the film?

whole LA movement with millennial

nah and there are female filmmakers

and then also having the patience

My character is the scream queen.

witches and crystals in the moon-

and producers, and a lot of women

to let them try things as well.

I’m playing the trope of the fright-

light—and how I kind of find them

involved, but I still walked on set and

ened girl in the town. It’s very Jim.

kind of full of it. And then there’s girls

I was the only woman in the room

Are you looking more towards

It’s very funny. Everybody’s really

in New York I’m friends with who are

and there were like 40 men around

directing features?

deadpan, but I’m really playing the

also into the same thing, but I find

I am, and especially with White

stakes. I’ve only just realized, why am

them very convincing. So it’s like,

Echo I wanted to hammer it home

I the only one playing the stakes? I’m

how do we convince other people

going to look like an idiot.

of our beliefs or to believe in us? Or convince ourselves of our own power

How did Jim approach you for

and when confronted with that

the role?

power, how do we use it?

He sent me the script a while ago.

He was like, “I’m making this weird

You’ve tended to tell strongly

zombie thing. Will you look at it?”

female-driven stories.

And I said of course. I don’t even like

I think I’m more interested in telling

zombie pictures. I haven’t even seen

stories about women because I

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discouraging as an actress. It’s not

“I’M NOT INSANE ABOUT THE GENRE, BUT I’M INSANE ABOUT JIM [JARMUSCH].

I’LL DO ANYTHING WITH HIM.”

that this is the kind of movie that I wanted to make. That I could make something compelling but also entertaining. Everyone at WME has been really fired up by it and it has been really encouraging. All the other departments have been sending scripts and setting up meetings so I think it’s kind of serving its purpose so far. ★

PHOTOGRAPH BY

Michael Buckner

DIALOGUE devotional, warm mother. I really

Bong

wanted to subvert the idea of what

JOON-HO

it means to be a good mother.

But I’m very interested in crime stories—detective mystery stories.

So, although it may seem like a big change from The Host to Mother, the crime story is a recurring

The director who outfoxed Harvey Weinstein and survived 2017’s Cannes Netflix controversy returns to his roots with Parasite

through line in my work.

Then you turned to sci-fi with

BY DA M O N W I S E

Snowpiercer, right?

I found the original graphic novel of Snowpiercer in 2005 at a bookstore that I go to. And what struck

BONG JOON-HO HAS BEEN A FAMILIAR sight in Cannes since 2006, when word of his delirious Han River monster romp The Host swept the Croisette after screening in Directors Fortnight. Since then, while his English and dress sense quietly improved, director Bong has always returned with a surprise, making the transition to Official Selection with UCR entry Mother and upgrading to Competition with 2017’s Englishlanguage Netflix Original Okja. Bong loves to flit from genre to genre, which might explain why he’s keeping quiet about his upcoming Neon release Parasite.

But this film, Parasite, features a

me was the actual concept of the

Murder is much, much better.

Snowpiercer—the concept of the

How did you become such a

survival of humanity in a running

good filmmaker in the space of

train with different sections repre-

three years?

senting different social statuses. I

I don’t know [laughs]. No drugs

really wanted to make the film, but I

were involved!

had to go through a lot of trouble.

I think I was just much more comfortable making the second

What was the biggest problem?

film. My first feature wasn’t a suc-

Harvey Weinstein [laughs]. I

cess. But I’d been given a second

completed the film to budget and

chance, so I was more confident

right on schedule. So completing

It’s a unique family drama featuring

conventional family with four family

in myself. Also, my second film

the film was OK, and it was a hit

two Korean families, one rich and

members, and I’m more focused on

wasn’t a personal story. It dealt

in Korea, but we were distributing

one poor. It’s difficult to define as

how these two conventional families

with the social issues surround-

the film in America through The

a genre. It could be a crime drama.

would meet and what kind of drama

ing a series of serial murders that

Weinstein Company. I’ve always

It could be a family drama. It could

would emerge when they met.

actually took place in the 1980s.

worked with my own director’s cut,

Were you always going to be a

Your next film, The Host, was

editing his films. So there was some

be a black comedy. It’s a mix of a variety of genres.

and Harvey is very notorious for filmmaker? Could you have just

invited to Cannes. How did that

conflict between the distribution

What was the first inspiration?

as easily been a novelist?

change your life?

company and myself. But any-

The inspiration came with the ques-

I’d wanted to become a filmmaker

After The Host was screened at

way—finally—I protected my own

tion of, what would happen if the

ever since I was in middle school,

the Cannes and Toronto Film Fes-

director’s cut. The movie that was

two families—the rich family and

when I was around 14 years old.

tival I got an American agent and I

released in the U.S. was my own fi-

the poor family, who occupy very

But I think of myself as a novelist or

received many offers from Korea,

nal cut. It was a very limited release,

different spaces in the city—would

writer when I write my own scripts,

America and even China, mostly

and maybe that was some kind of

meet? What would happen if those

which I’ve been doing all along. I

to make sequels or remakes of

punishment, but I didn’t care.

two worlds were to collide? That

draw my storyboards myself as

The Host. But I was determined

was the beginning of the film. And

well, and when I work on the story-

that I didn’t want to repeat my-

Your last film, Okja, was made

the two families intersect when the

board I consider myself a cartoon-

self; I didn’t want to make another

for Netflix, which caused a major

son of the poor family becomes the

ist. In my next life I want to be a

monster film. Around that time

controversy at the festival. How

tutor for the rich family.

cartoonist, because I love Manga.

I was offered a zombie movie,

do you feel about that now?

which turned out to be World War

Well, I think that there should be

Why do you have such an interest

When you made your first film

Z. There were some other monster

a drive for coexistence between

in families? It’s a recurring theme

Barking Dogs Never Bite (2000),

films, but I can’t really remember

film theaters and Netflix, but as a

in all your films…

what did you want to achieve?

their names.

film director, as a creator, my job is

I’m not necessarily obsessed with

When I was making it I didn’t really

the theme of family, but this film is

have anything specific in mind, I

Mother was a big change from

unlike my previous films, where the

was just very busy trying to finish

The Host. What inspired it?

families were incomplete—in Mother

the film in very difficult circum-

The starting point was actually the

audience reaction, not just from

there was no father, and in The Host

stances. So I was more concerned

actress, Kim Hye-ja, who plays the

people in Korea but in different

there was a family with no mother.

with finishing the film than achiev-

mother in the film. She is a legend-

countries and from all interna-

So I deal mostly with incomplete

ing a specific artistic agenda. But

ary actress in Korea. She’s an iconic

tional audiences. Especially veg-

families, and how a family with miss-

reflecting back on it, it’s probably

figure who represents the ultimate

ans and vegetarians. They really

ing members finds balance.

the most personal film I’ve made.

mother figure in Korea—the good,

loved the movie. ★

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to make films, not to worry about this controversy.

But I was satisfied with the

C IN E 2 1

What’s Parasite about?

Your second film, Memories of

CO LUMN the strict French exhibition policy to be outlawed from competition slots—a key sticking point for Netflix, which wants to play in every sandbox it can in order to win awards. Thus, among other titles, Cannes lost the opportunity to debut Alfonso Cuarón’s Oscar-winning Roma last year (it eventually went to Venice where it won the Golden Lion), and this year there is also nothing from the streaming giant, neither in or out of competition (Babak Anvari’s Wounds appears in the unofficial sidebar Directors’ Fortnight).

It remains to be seen whether Netflix, which is sending its acquisition team, will turn one of the Competition films into a streaming product as they did in 2018 when they plucked Alice Rohrwacher’s Happy as Lazzaro and Un Certain Regard winner Girl for their distribution platform and awards season plans—indeed, no one can stop the wolf from profiting

CARRY ON STREAMING After Roma’s awards season success, how much longer can Cannes keep the streaming platforms at bay? By Pete Hammond

from this particular hen house. Still, I France’s stringent rules, which

have to side with the French cinema

require three years before a film can

establishment on this one: they have

ever see the light of a TV screen

clearly defined what constitutes a

(in America it is generally 90 days

“movie” for their purposes and are

between theaters and SVOD—

sticking to it. Good for them, but

Streaming Video On-Demand). This

they are probably—sadly—alone. The

seems dreamily appropriate for

ever-evolving business has other

the place considered the birth of

ideas. Venice, Sundance, and other

cinema, and Cannes festival toppers

major festivals have no problem

are hamstrung by this standoff in

welcoming Netflix, Amazon and

France whether they like it or not.

other streamers, as long as they

But are they tilting at windmills?

deliver the goods—and the stars—to

For the second year in a row there will be no streaming movie

THERE IS PROBABLY NOTHING THAT DEFINES MOVIES —or cinema—better or more purely for cineastes than Cannes. And as we embark on the 72nd edition of this iconic film festival, the definition of what really is a movie has never been a hotter topic of discussion, from Hollywood to the French Riviera and all points in between.

the red carpet.

Netflix clearly doesn’t want to

in Competition from either Netflix

play by anyone’s rules other than

or Amazon, although—somewhat

its own. For them, it isn’t black and

ironically—the latter does have a

white, but rather a gray area that

television show (quel scandale!)

defines theatrical versus television

in the official selection: Too Old to

movies. They want to put everything

Die Young, from frequent Cannes

on one service at one time (the

fixture Nicolas Winding Refn. Two

“larder” as director Paul Schrader

episodes from the series will be

describes it), unlike movie studios

It has been a key argument in

trying to have its cake and eat it, in

shown out of competition, which

and TV networks, which clearly

the so-called Netflix debate—what

terms of debuting movies day and

debuts in June. The issue was more

delineate a divide between theaters

constitutes a theatrical film as

date on their platform as well as in

acute with Netflix, which had two

and television, Oscars and Emmys.

opposed to a television movie?—to

theaters, in order to ‘prove’ that they

controversial Competition slots

Netflix wants to be in both arenas,

the point where even the Academy

are not out to destroy theatrical

in 2017—Bong Joon-ho’s Okja and

when and where it suits. They want

of Motion Picture Arts & Sciences

exhibition. It is a slippery slope, and

Noah Baumbach’s The Meyerowitz

to win in Cannes and to win at the

created a committee to try and

Hollywood and the French continue

Stories (New and Selected)—from

Oscars on their own terms.

define what should be eligible for an

to take sides, particularly those in

world-class directors. Neither

Oscar in the new era of streaming

the exhibition community.

won an award but both caused an

filmmakers like Cuarón and Martin

uproar leading to a new Cannes rule

Scorsese (his upcoming gangster

forbidding any film not adhering to

epic The Irishman will be a lightning

services. Netflix, for its part, is muddying the waters further by

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Cannes appears to be the last outpost of resistance thanks to

The strategy of luring A-list

RE X /S H U T T ERSTO CK

THEATRICAL BATTLE Cannes has eschewed streamed films, but Nicolas Winding Refn’s Amazon TV show Too Old to Die Young still made the Official Selection.

rod in this argument come the fall), giving them endless budgets and creative freedom, is undeniably effective. With Roma they almost pulled off a Best Picture win this year, and that’s when the industry and many in the Academy got very nervous. It would have been a gamechanging, Earth-shattering event— but isn’t it inevitable at some point down the line? This is why, following the Cannes Film Festival’s example, it was urgent for the motion picture Academy to make a clear definition of what is a movie—and therefore what is eligible for an Oscar—and the Academy chose to stand pat, even though AMPAS president John Bailey said they would continue to study the “profound changes in our industry”, as well as have further

DEFINING FILM If Spielberg’s 1971 classic Duel was originally made for TV prior to its theatrical release, the question arises: what makes a movie a movie?

discussions with their members on the issue.

So what exactly is the definition of a movie? Is it simply sitting in a theater and sharing the collective experience of what we are seeing on

intending it to be the first ever

the screen? Certainly, that is what

movie made for television, but finally

defines a theatrical movie. But times

deemed it too violent, releasing it

change and people consume film in

in theaters instead. Before the TCM

so many different ways. Is sitting in

showing, Dickinson, now 87 and

your house watching a TV screen or

never dreaming that she would still

your laptop the same thing? Can a

be talking about this film 55 years

“movie” that debuts in a streaming

later at the Grauman’s Chinese

format be compared favorably to

even clearer. “I don’t believe that

now appears on the DVD release—he

Theatre, explained they all thought

one designed to first play in theaters,

films that are just given token

took his “TV movie” and turned it

they were making a B-movie, one

a tradition as old as movies itself?

qualifications, in a couple of

into a theatrical movie for different

she defined in this instance as

Should everything be eligible for

theaters for less than a week,

audiences around the world. Duel

being for television. Clearly that

Oscars as long as it adheres to

should qualify for the Academy

is still defined on IMDb by its roots,

wasn’t the case and the film (also

fulfilling a one-week qualifying run in

Award nominations.”

a “TV movie”. So what is it? Or is a

given special treatment by the

movie just a movie no matter where

Criterion Collection) continues to be

and how you see it?

discovered in theaters. That is how

LA, as it is now? That’s an easy one for deep-pocketed streamers.

The famed director, whose company DreamWorks was one of

Steven Spielberg, on the other

the entities behind this year’s Roma-

hand, made waves last year in an

upsetting Best Picture winner, Green

Martin Scorsese are on opposite

I will remember it—as a theatrical

interview with ITV, in which he

Book, went on to opine that these

sides of the Netflix debate, but

experience like no other, the way I

attempted to simplify it for everyone.

streaming movies deserved “an

both are about as fervent believers

personally define a movie. Others

“Fewer and fewer filmmakers are

Emmy, not an Oscar”. It is interesting

in the theatrical experience as it’s

have their own definition, and that is

going to struggle to raise money,

to note that before he hit theatrical

possible to be. They recently teamed

what makes it all such an interesting

in order to compete at Sundance

pay dirt with The Sugarland Express

with Scorsese’s Film Foundation to

debate: one man’s movie palace is

and possibly get one of the

and Jaws, Spielberg got his directing

sponsor a new 4K restoration of Don

another man’s Netflix.

specialty labels to release their films

start in episodic TV and then a much

Siegel’s 1964 cult classic The Killers—

By the way, Universal did make

theatrically. And more of them are

lauded 1971 TV movie called Duel,

starring Angie Dickinson, Lee Marvin

the actual first movie for television

going to let the SVOD businesses

which won an Emmy for its sound

and Ronald Reagan—which played at

later that year and it debuted on

finance their films, maybe with

editing and ran 74 minutes as an

the 2018 Venice Film Festival in the

NBC in October 1964. It starred John

the promise of a slight, one-week

ABC Movie of the Week. However,

Classics Section and recently played

Forsythe and was called See How

theatrical window to qualify for

when a distributor wanted to release

in early April to a packed turn-away

They Run. No one talks about that

awards. But, in fact, once you

it theatrically overseas, Spielberg

crowd at the popular TCM Classic

movie and no one is restoring it. Like

commit to a television format, you’re

went back into production, added

Film Festival in Hollywood.

so many films in the “larder”, as Paul

a TV movie.”

several scenes and 16 minutes to the

Finally, he made his point

runtime, which is the version that

It would seem that Spielberg and

Why do I bring this up? Well, Universal originally shot The Killers

I saw it for the first time, and how

Schrader put it, it was quickly lost in the crowd. ★

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AS THE INDUSTRY debates existential questions about film and television, Deadline’s 2019 class of DISRUPTORS runs the gamut, from gutsy newcomers building the landscape in their own fashion to industry heavyweights conquering new terrain.

Led by the disruptor’s disruptor, our cover star Francis Ford Coppola, this year’s class, in alphabetical order:

67 72 54 48 65 38

50 62 56 70 66

PEDRO ALMODÓVAR SACHA BARON COHEN GREG BERLANTI ANNABEL JONES +CHARLIE BROOKER FRANCIS FORD COPPOLA KEVIN COSTNER THE FRESH FACES OF STREAMING STEVE GOLIN ANITA GOU JAMES GUNN MINDY KALING JEFFREY KATZENBERG NICOLE KIDMAN +PER SAARI THE NEW FESTIVAL TASTEMAKERS THE RUSSO BROS. TAIKA WAITITI WOMEN BEHIND THE LENS WU JING

When the man behind The Godfather came to the Cannes Film Festival in 1979, he brought with him an unfinished cut of his new Vietnam war picture

Apocalypse Now. After a tumultuous, disaster-prone shoot, and with the press baying for his blood, Francis Ford Coppola had something to prove.

But, when the film won the Palme d’Or, the doubters were silenced, and a new classic of cinema was born.

Now, 40 years on, one of modern moviemaking’s most profound disruptors sits on the veranda of his Napa Valley winery to reflect to MIKE FLEMING JR. about his time at the festival, the philosophy behind his risk-it-all approach to making cinema, and his imminent return to large-scale moviemaking

FRANCIS FORD COPPOLA MOMENT OF TRUTH

Above: Coppola with his family at the inaugural Cannes screening of Apocalypse Now on 19th May, 1979. it went on to win the Palme d'Or.

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PHOTOGRAPH BY

Mark Mann

D E A D L I N E .C O M / AWA R D S L I N E

27

H

e was one of the defining voices of the auteur ’70s, having made some of the greatest and most ambitious films ever attempted; The Godfather trilogy,

It was 40 years ago that you emerged from the jungle with a work-in-progress print of Apocalypse Now, and you won the Palme d’Or, sharing the prize with The Tin Drum. What did that mean to you?

Apocalypse Now and The Conversation.

Well, it was a little unusual in that we entered the

His penchant for risking himself

film at Cannes before it was really quite finished. We

personally to make those films, as well as the fortunes he won and lost along the way, makes him the quintessential

disruptor’s disruptor.

Now, Francis Ford Coppola is back at it. Days before he turned 80—when he would be fêted by family and friends like George Lucas and Martin Scorsese on the picturesque grounds of the Inglenook winery in Rutherford, CA that made him impossibly wealthy—a dramatically slimmeddown Coppola has found his second wind. With news that will hit the palate of cinephiles like one of his fine Cabernets, Coppola is again ready to make big-scale films.

called it a work-in-progress.

Why would you put a movie you hadn’t completed at such a high-profile global film festival?

The reason for that very unusual situation was, there was so much very negative publicity coming out every day about the problems we were having, and [people were saying] that the film might never be released. In fact, even in Cannes there were articles in the local press—or maybe it was a British publication—that totally debunked the idea that the film would ever be finished, and that the problems were so extraordinary it wouldn’t cut together.

Actually, what he’s planning comes closer to the conclusion of The Godfather, when Michael Corleone settled scores with the heads of the rival five mob families and plotted the family’s future in Las Vegas. Coppola is not only looking forward. He’s also settling scores by recutting past films that didn’t sit right with him at the time.

Coppola has recut versions of two films that didn’t quite please him, with another on the way. A most expansive version of the Harlem-set period epic The Cotton Club is coming in the fall, as is his third and final version of the classic Apocalypse Now, the Vietnam War exploration inspired

by Joseph Conrad’s Heart of Darkness that exhausted and almost financially ruined Coppola the first time around.

And while Coppola need not touch the first two of his collaborations with the late author Mario Puzo—The Godfather and The Godfather Part II—the third film in that trilogy never measured up, in the director's mind, to that high bar. He aims to remedy that, too.

Meanwhile, he has resurrected, is casting and putting together the financing of his decades-long obsession with the epic Megalopolis—a drama about an attempt to create utopia in a city like New York.

Here, he explains why the time is ripe to return to Godfather III and these other films, what it was about his vineyard home that turned his chance viewing into a must-have

THE FAMILY BUSINESS

Coppola with, from left, son Roman, wife Eleanor, and daughter Sofia, all filmmakers.

I was put in a position where I adopted the very strange idea of just bringing it and showing it, to try to stop this publicity which had been going on for over a year. We made the film in a far off, distant place, in the Philippines. There were many news stories coming out to do with the incredibly extreme weather and hurricanes.

property, and how Megalopolis might mark the culmination

And your star, Martin Sheen, suffered a heart

of the career of one of America’s most important directors.

attack mid-shoot...

That, and other illnesses. I basically was at my wits’ end on how to stop this prejudgment. I came up with the very crazy idea of just bringing the film and showing it. To do so, we had to enter as an unfinished film. The film was in better shape than anyone knew, including me. So this gambit, if you could call it that, not only did it work but we won the

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Palme d’Or. Or shared it—because of its status as an unfinished film—with The Tin Drum.

It was an answer to my prayers. At least they

to be finished. Technically I was in very hot water.

Things definitely improved after the win. The gamble worked in that now no one could say the

realized that the film was not the mess that it was

film wasn’t going to be finished, because it was

being portrayed as. My memory is of relief and hope,

obviously finished enough to win the Palme d’Or.

like a new ray of sunshine in the very bleak picture.

It was easier to finish with the encouragement of that award. We quickly got ready for a real release

Did it make the negativity go away in the press,

and had that award under our arm. The controversy

and leave you more confident than before that

greatly abated but it did not entirely go away.

FRANCIS FORD COPPOLA

Palais premiere?

In the early days, for every yay there was a negative

This got serious enough that you risked your

interested in making cheap wine. In fact, he was

opinion. Even then, it was always the factions in the

Inglenook winery. Your first two Godfather

a great wine expert. I guess on shipboard he had

audience that were extremely enthusiastic. Albeit

movies will forever cement your identity,

the largest library of books about wine. He could

in Cannes there was a smaller faction that was

but your wine business is a close second.

have bought all of the French first growths—all five

more saying, “This is wild,” and even more damning

This winery was established in 1887 and it’s

of them—in those days, he was so wealthy. But he

things; sometimes even after the award. There was

remarkably beautiful.

married a younger woman from California and she

a journalist... do you remember Frank Rich?

It was built in the 19th Century by Gustave Niebaum.

didn’t want him to always be traveling. So rather

He was Finnish, when Finland was part of Russia.

than establish a high quality winery in France, he

Sure. He was the NY Times chief theater critic

He went to the naval academy and was trained by

did it here in an area that started to get a good

for many years.

the Russians. He actually became administrator of

reputation, which was the Napa Valley. Since he

Well, he came out and said, “This is the biggest

Alaska during the time when it had just been sold to

had a ton of money, he didn’t approach it like all of

“THE COPPOLA FAMILY IS FIVE GENERATIONS DEEP IN THE MOVIE BUSINESS, WHICH IS WEIRD AND AMAZING IF YOU THINK THAT THE MOVIE BUSINESS IS ONLY 110 OR 120 YEARS OLD. AND WE HAVE FIVE GENERATIONS, INCLUDING ON THE OTHER SIDE, BECAUSE MY OTHER GRANDFATHER OWNED A MOVIE THEATER AND THEY LIVED IN IT.” Hollywood disaster in 40 years.” I was so crushed

the United States. So there was about three years

the other winery operations at that time, like Gallo,

by this. I thought, Is there no little dumb film or

when basically no one knew anything about Alaska

which were less expensive. Niebaum took this

overtly commercial film that was worse? I was

in America, but he knew everything about Alaska.

money and bought up what was considered the

much younger, and scared. I had a lot riding on it

He was a sea captain who traded for all these

most desirable spot. It was called Inglenook even

economically. I had borrowed the money to make

goods and made a great fortune. One shipment

before he bought it and put several sections of

it. In those days, interest was 25%. Cannes was

of fur pelts was worth, like, half a million dollars in

it together.

definitely a high moment, and a moment to feel

1880 or 1870. He exploited the natives, in a way, and

very grateful and somewhat relieved, but I didn’t feel

traded them beads and God knows what for these

as you probably know. There’s the normal wine for

that the worry was over.

fur pelts, and then he brought the fur pelts to San

regular people like us—like me and my grandfather—

Francisco. He established a trading company; the

and then there’s the luxurious luxury wines, which

Did you have distribution at that point?

fur pelts were sold to wholesalers and then became

predominantly were French in those days. Niebaum

I did, but it was beginning to fray at the sides

extremely valuable as fur coats.

wanted to compete with them, which was very

because of all the condemnation, and the disbelief that the picture would ever be released.

The reason I was in debt is, I went around and

The point that’s interesting is, he was one of

There are two different kinds of wine businesses,

unusual because none of these other Napa

the wealthiest men in the United States at that

Valley wineries were founded by anyone but poor

time, whereas the history of wine goes back to

immigrants like my own family. So this is one of the

got distribution guarantees, with people saying,

immigrants who drank wine at the table for dinner.

few in the world that can even begin to compete

“We’ll take it for Australia for X dollars,” and then

They went to these different countries but they

with the great first growths of France or the wines

I went to a bank and borrowed the money. So I

were poor and so they made cheap wine for people

of Burgundy. He continued to have this big trading

did have a distribution network of these letters of

like themselves. Like my grandfather. I never saw

company in San Francisco, and he would come here

credit, but they required that the film be finished.

a dinner table in my life that didn’t have a glass of

and spend the whole summer season. This was

And everyone was saying the film was never going

wine on it. Niebaum, on the other hand, was not

before the Golden Gate Bridge, before automobiles D E A D L I N E .C O M / AWA R D S L I N E

29

and bathrooms as we know them. The main house,

had a nice house in San Francisco, and I said to my

he built this for himself, and all he told the architect

wife, “Let’s buy a cottage in the Napa Valley, so the

For us, it was a new dimension. Not only were

is, “I just want a terrace that we can walk about,”

kids could go to a place where there are trees and

we in love with a great Hollywood tradition—William

and he wanted a lot of wood because he was a

maybe an acre of grapes, and we’ll make wine like

Wyler, King Vidor, John Huston and all of these

captain. When we bought the place, my wife and

my grandfather did, and we’ll give it to the relatives

greats, but we were also taken by this new European

I, we had little kids and we had no intention to buy

for Christmas.” She liked the idea of a little summer

thing with the New Wave and the unbelievable

[such] a grand place.

house. So we were looking at little cheap summer

Italian movies in those days after the war, as well as

houses, and the agent said, “This isn’t for you, but

Japanese movies. So I think one of the interesting

You mentioned your grandfather…

they’re going to auction the Niebaum estate—the

things about people my age and younger is that

My grandfather, incidentally, is a man who

original house and a big hunk of the mountain.” I

we were hit by two great traditions: the American

engineered and built the Vitaphone. My father’s

said, “What’s that?”

studio tradition, which was great, and the Japanese,

father built the machine that enabled The

So we went to see it. I had no money or ability

followed us, were basically in love with movies.

European, Swedish traditions were also hitting us.

Jazz Singer, and I have pictures of him with the

to buy a place like that, but when I saw it, it was

Vitaphone. So, now that my granddaughter has

like, “This is where the rich people live.” It had a lake

made her first movie, the Coppola family is five

and 1,400 acres and this beautiful antique house.

the Godfather picture, which was not thought to

generations deep in the movie business, which

We were knocked out, so I made an offer. We didn’t

be such a winner at the time we were editing it,

is weird and amazing if you think that the movie

get it, and that ruined our plan for a little cottage

surprised everyone, most of all me. And probably

business is only 110 or 120 years old. And we have

because nothing compared to this. This is right

Paramount. It was under a lot of shadows. The point

five generations, including on the other side,

before I went to make Apocalypse Now.

I’m making is that to make Apocalypse Now I had

because my other grandfather owned a movie

We were close to going to the Philippines, and

So we were doubly in love with the movie business.

I was about 30. I had three kids. Miraculously,

to put up everything I was worth to guarantee the

theater and they lived in it. He was very interested

about seven, eight months after having lost the

in movies and he imported some of the first Italian

deal, my wife heard the rumor that the people who

movies for immigrants in America to see.

bought it were financed by a group that wanted to

You bet on yourself.

put 60 homes on the mountain but ran into trouble

And in those days, when Carter was president, the

to Italy. He was dealing with a big studio that was

with the new agricultural preserve rules that said

interest rate was 25%. So not only did I have this

making these films. They said, “She’s an actress.”

the mountain couldn’t be exploited—thank God.

loan on my back in order to make the picture, but

She wasn’t an actress. But, as a pretty 16-year-old,

So, on a wild chance, I went to the people who had

it was at impossible interest. The likelihood of me

the studio wanted her to do a test, and though my

bought it and said, “Is there a chance you might

surviving that was very against me, and I was, of

grandfather was greatly against it, she did it. I’ve

want to sell it?” They said yes.

course, during Apocalypse, famously scared and

Actually, he took my mother, when she was 16,

heard that speech of her test. It’s something like,

budget, including this place that I had just gotten.

I bought it from them without even knowing

depressed. So when I got back, my wife said to me,

“Through the courtesy and so-and-so of the Caesar

where the hell I was going to get the money. It was

“We have this winery. What should we do? We have

Film Company, one of the most modern, up-to-date

about what a house cost in Beverly Hills in those

200 acres of grapes and we don’t know anything

film studios in the world, we are glad to present to

days; I think it was about $1.2 million. I arranged that

about how to run a wine business.” I said, “Well, I

you, Vittorio De Sica.” She made that speech and

and went off to make Apocalypse Now.

don’t know anything about how to make movies

I’ve heard that speech all my life. That is the extent of my mother’s experience as an actress.

I had made the successful Godfather and I

either, really, so let’s just do our best.”

think also the successful Godfather II and The Conversation. I was in the movie business, where

It is the dream to own a film like Apocalypse

She didn’t pursue it further?

you’re up and down. I was in my up period but I

Now, or a winery like this?

It was used as an introduction, I guess, on some

was astonished that nobody wanted me to make

The reason our family owns Apocalypse Now is

film, but for my grandfather... For her to be an

Apocalypse Now. I learned the big rule of the movie

because no one else wanted to finance it. When

actress then was scandalous, so he didn’t want any

business, which is, it’s not so much that you maybe

it was done it was a) long and b) weird, in most

of that.

won a bunch of Oscars or are in good favor, it’s

people’s opinion. But I was a kid who never had

also about the type of movie you want to make. If

$100 to his name, who owed $20m or $30m at

So how did you land at Inglenook—and how did

I wanted to spend my whole life making gangster

25% interest. So I was scared stiff, and also I was

Apocalypse Now factor in?

pictures, I guess I could have done that, but my

doubly scared because I now had this place and my

I had no money whatsoever to my name, much

movie aspiration was... I was young. I wanted to

little kids. I remember being on that terrace right out

less influence or connections, when I came here to

learn as much as I could and try as many different

there that Niebaum built, just depressed. “This is so

go to film school. I had not a penny. But after The

styles and understand more about the cinema,

beautiful and I’m going to lose it shortly because of

Godfather I got the first little money I ever had. We

because my generation, and the generation that

this picture.”

“IF I WANTED TO SPEND MY WHOLE LIFE MAKING GANGSTER PICTURES, I GUESS I COULD HAVE DONE THAT. IT’S NOT SO MUCH THAT YOU MAYBE WON A BUNCH OF OSCARS OR ARE IN GOOD FAVOR... I WANTED TO LEARN AS MUCH AS I COULD AND TRY AS MANY DIFFERENT STYLES. MY GENERATION WERE BASICALLY IN LOVE WITH MOVIES.” 30

D E A D L I N E .C O M / AWA R D S L I N E

What saved your vineyard?

new filmmaker in their career, which is what we did

Well, a couple of friends did come to my aid. After

with one another.

Star Wars came out, George Lucas, who was like my kid brother, said he would buy my Napa property

There’s a brilliant documentary, Hearts of

and hold it for 10 years and allow me to buy it back

Darkness, about the making of that film. Your

at the same price, which was the most generous

wife Eleanor co-directed it and appears in

thing a person could do for me.

it, and her belief in your artistic vision was

FRANCIS FORD COPPOLA

It turned out that Apocalypse didn’t get into

unwavering. How important has that been to

financial trouble after all. It opened respectably and

leading this risk-taking maverick movie life?

then it never stopped. What happened is that the

I’ve been married 56 years, and although there

audience kept going and going and going, and, over

probably wasn’t one year where we didn’t talk about

differently, but the first time, they all said it was

time, we began to realize that the picture was going

getting divorced—which any honest marriage would

too long, and I was this scared kid. Now, often

to actually make its money back. On the strength of

admit—the truth of the matter was she witnessed,

when a movie is too long, taking out time doesn’t

the Cannes award, it did very well in France and in

by my side, some pretty extraordinary things. When

necessary help, and sometimes putting more back

other countries. So what saved me in the end was

I was in Hollywood pursuing my original career to try

makes it feel less long to the audience because

the picture itself.

to be a screenwriter I didn’t have any connections,

they understand it better. But I was scared, so I said,

no family who were in the movie business then. I

“We’d better shorten it,” and we did it as much as

This was gracious of George Lucas, but I heard

had no money whatsoever. Whatever happened to

we knew how to when everyone said it was really

that when the Universal hierarchy hated

me started from zero, and she was married to me

weird. “It’s not like those big war movies,” they said.

American Graffiti, wasn’t it you who offered to

at that time. She shared the astonishment that

I said, “But the Vietnam War wasn’t like those kind

buy them out?

I actually was making progress as a professional

of previous World War II movies.” Whereas war

I was astonished; we previewed the picture

screenwriter at first, and ultimately as a filmmaker.

films usually had a New York sensibility—there was

and Universal had an executive there who said,

always a guy from Brooklyn, or Nick Conti played a

“We’re very worried and we want some changes.”

What was the biggest disagreement you had

G.I.—Vietnam was a Californian war. It was surfers

I remember what I said to him, and this is pretty

with her as you bet on yourself at such high

and drugs and rock’n’roll and The Doors.

verbatim. I said, “You ought to get on your knees

financial risk?

and thank this young man for what he did for your

That was never a point of conflict. She never

Vietnam War, but it took so long to cut that Deer

studio.” Furthermore, I offered to buy it from them

wavered in her support of me and my career. I was

Hunter came out before us.

for what it cost, which was $700,000 dollars. I

very lucky. At one time we did go into bankruptcy,

had just made The Godfather, so I could borrow

but it was, ironically, not over Apocalypse Now. It

Did coming out second in the marketplace,

$700,000. Of course, they didn’t accept my offer. I

was One from the Heart, where we once again did

after The Deer Hunter, help or hurt you?

wish they had.

a workout with the bank—it was determined that

Honestly, I don’t know the answer to that question.

I had to pay them back some $25 million. George

The Deer Hunter not only came out but won the

You just celebrated your 80th birthday, and

again offered real help in the way I discussed. But I

Oscar, and, of course, I was the one who presented

George and Marty Scorsese were there. This

made the deal with the bank and I did 10 pictures

it to Michael Cimino. I liked Michael Cimino very

support group—and we need to throw Steven

in 10 or 12 years that paid off the debt. With Bram

much and I was happy for him, but I didn’t know

Spielberg in there as well—what did they mean

Stoker’s Dracula I think we even were in excess of

what awaited me because my film didn’t come

to you?

what I had owed because that film was financially

out for another year. The film that won at the

We really admired each other, but more than

successful. So I went to my wife and said, “You’ve

Oscars our year was Kramer vs. Kramer, which was

that we liked each other. They were all younger

been such a supportive wife. I’ve managed to put

wonderful in that it introduced Meryl Streep, but it

than me, so I was the first one who actually had a

together $10 million. Here it is. Buy an annuity so

was a more conventional movie.

professional career. It was a screenwriting career,

that you never will have to go through this thing

but I was working for the studios and they were still,

where they’re closing the grocery store accounts.”

That must have been awkward: you were

some of them, in film school. George was five years

See, I never had corporations protecting me, any of

presenting because you’d won the previous

younger and Marty is about the same. Steven’s even

that stuff. She said, “Thank you, it’s been rough, but

year for The Godfather, not knowing if following

younger still. They were students. Marty had already

I really appreciate that you have done this.”

that staggering movie was going to hurt yours.

Apocalypse was the first movie to tackle the

Was it a mixed feeling for you?

made Who’s That Knocking at My Door, but he was A generous gesture.

Well, it got further complicated by the fact that,

Then, a week later, I learned that I could buy the

before I gave the award, I improvised a little

for one another. Maybe it’s because I had come

other half of the Inglenook Winery estate. I went

statement that was ridiculed at the time. I said

from theater, where you’re a company, and that

to her and I said, “Give me back that money,” and I

the cinema was going to be changed completely

means a certain social togetherness. You go to

bought that. But that turned out to be one of the

by a new technology that would involve digital

rehearsals and have coffee together. One thing

better investments I ever made in my life. To be

and satellites and electronics, which would

I had contributed to that group was my theater

honest with you, I made more money in the wine

forever change the face of the cinema. People

tradition, which meant that we were all friends and

business than I did in the film business. But I made

were laughing and saying, “What is he smoking?”

we were all a group and helped one another. Those

it with money that I had earned in the film business.

Everything that I said in that statement came true.

also teaching at NYU. There was a real friendship; a mutual respect

filmmakers went on to do the same. I mean, Steven

Now it is used as my prescience, but the truth is I

Spielberg mentored and sponsored three to five

You recut and re-released Apocalypse Now

was very embarrassed by that off-the-cuff thing I

filmmakers in his extraordinary career. The tradition

once before. Why have you done it again?

just threw in.

of American filmmakers was to pick an associate,

So what happened with Apocalypse is, they said

or someone they thought was talented, and help a

it was too long. Now that I’m 80, I see a lot of this

I remember Ali MacGraw was the co-presenter and she was looking at me with an astonished look D E A D L I N E .C O M / AWA R D S L I N E

31

of, “What is he talking about?” At that time, my

I not won the Oscar for Patton, I would absolutely

or hairdressers and clothes. A period picture adds

life was such a jumble. I was basically very scared,

have been fired from The Godfather.

a big cost. So I was not popular, wanting to make

for good reason because I had a very unusual

it in New York and set it in the ’40s, which is when

movie, which of course may or may not have been

But didn’t Fox hate your Patton script, until

the book was set, because I felt that that was a big

accepted. And all that debt I didn’t know how I was

George C. Scott forced their hand?

part of the story. The fact I survived is a miracle to

going to pay down, which was going to wipe me out.

True. They were talking to Burt Lancaster and

me, to be honest, because I had no clout; no big,

A couple of years later, I was in some relatively

he very much didn’t like my script—especially

successful movies. The only thing I had going for me

cheap hotel in London and Apocalypse Now came

that beginning scene. He felt that it was totally

was that I was Italian-American.

on television. I always liked the opening: the helicop-

anticlimactic that I started the film with this

I was young, which meant that they thought

ter, the napalm, the guy in the hotel room. I thought

portrait of Patton. So I was basically replaced

they could push me around, and they did push me

I’d watch that part and turn it off, but I watched the

because of the opening. Then, years later, when

around. And also I was pretty much considered a

whole thing, and it was a big moment because I’d

Lancaster was not going to do it and they brought

good screenwriter, and they definitely needed a free

realized by then that the movie is less weird now, like

in George C. Scott, he wasn’t crazy about the new

rewrite of that script, so that’s why I got the job.

those avant-garde paintings that a few years later

script. A man named David Brown said that there

How I kept it, I don’t know.

become the wallpaper in peoples’ houses.

was a young guy that did a much more strange

It was helpful that every major director they

script. It was David Brown who resurrected my

went to turned it down. Elia Kazan, Costa-Gavras,

and footage. I had so much footage. Distributors

script. I wasn’t around so I didn’t know that, but

everybody turned it down because there had been

were saying, “Why don’t you make a version of

that’s how that happened.

a mafia picture called The Brotherhood starring the

Meanwhile, there’s all these other sequences

Apocalypse that has everything in it?” I had these

wonderful Kirk Douglas that flopped. So the idea of

Betamax tapes. I had all this material, so we did this

Why weren’t you there to accept your Oscar?

long version, put everything back in, and that was

Because I was in New York, about to get fired from

Apocalypse Now Redux. When the film was going

The Godfather. In fact, the night of the Oscars, I

if they could make it for $2.5m with this young

SLEEPING WITH THE FISHES

watched the show with Marty Scorsese and he

director, who maybe could direct actors… Peter Bart

said to me, “How are they going to fire you now?”

had seen this movie I made called The Rain People

Because he knew I was in deep, deep trouble.

and he thought the acting in it was presentable. So

Scenes from The Godfather trilogy. Left: Coppola directs Marlon Brando. Center: James Caan, Marlon Brando, Al Pacino & John Cazale. Right: Al Pacino.

an Italian gangster picture...

The book was taking off, though, so they thought

he thought maybe that would be OK. Where were What didn’t they like about The Godfather?

we going with this?

to have its 40th anniversary at Tribeca, they asked,

They hated my casting ideas. They hated the Al

“Which version did you want to show, the original or

Pacino idea. They hated the Brando idea. They

You were talking about making The Cotton Club

Redux?” I said, “I would love to do my own ‘classic’

hated the fact that I decided to set it in New York

after you almost got pushed off The Godfather

version, which would be something in between

and they fought it. Of course, their reasoning was

by Bob Evans…

those two.” There are some sequences in Redux

logical. There was a movie made in New York called

So, when The Godfather fooled everyone and was

that aren’t interesting and I’d wished I would have

Mister Buddwing and what followed was a big to-do

this colossal success, they came to me and said, “Of

taken them out. So I used those Betamax tapes

about how inhospitable New York was to movies,

course we want to make Michael Corleone Returns,

and made the third version. It will be released as

how expensive they were. So there was a sort of

because it made money.” I said I didn’t want to

Apocalypse Now: Final Cut.

boycott on New York, and when I suggested it to

have anything to do with Paramount Pictures or

Paramount for this little $2.5m version of this book

Bob Evans. I didn’t want to have anything to do with

Why did you recut The Cotton Club, which you’ll

they bought—The Godfather—they wanted to make

gangsters. I could say that because I now had a

have ready for this fall?

it in St. Louis and set it in the ’70s.

couple of bucks.

Cotton Club was a very strange endeavor. I didn’t get

Finally I said, “Here’s what I will do...” I loved Mario

along with Bob Evans during The Godfather at all. He

Why?

Puzo—he was a wonderful man and I really liked

was so tough on me. I was seriously on the verge of

Because it was the ’70s, and if a movie is set in

working with him. I said, “I’ll work with Mario, and

getting fired maybe on three or four occasions. Had

the ’70s then you don’t have to get special cars,

we’ll make a script for a second Godfather movie,

32

D E A D L I N E .C O M / AWA R D S L I N E

but I don’t want to direct it. I’ll help produce it and

“Because our marketing department tells us that if

I will choose a young director that I think would be

we call the movie The Godfather Part II everyone’s

great, and you could have what you want.”

going to think it’s the second half of the movie they

I had this crazy idea of a movie that would be

already saw instead of a separate movie.”

two time periods that would tell the story of the

FRANCIS FORD COPPOLA

father and the son when they were the same age.

Really?

You would see Michael when he was a mature

I swear to God. It’s so ironic, because now if I have

young man and, of course, the father, who would

any bad standing in the movie business it’s because

have been already dead. It was far out, but I liked

I don’t want to do a movie that’s built to have a lot of

it. When the time came, I went to them and I said,

sequels. I’m the one who started the Rocky V stuff.

“We have a script and I’ll tell you the director who

Godfather II was the first movie with that name. I got

musician in The Cotton Club.” He says, “He can’t, all

should do it.” Everything I tell you, to my knowledge,

into another big argument with them 16 years later

the musicians there were black.” There was not ever

is true. “This young director, I think is a fabulous

because I absolutely didn’t want to call the third

a white musician in The Cotton Club. Only white

talent...” They said, “Fine, who is he?” I said, “Martin

Godfather Part III. Mario and I had a title for it.

people could be in the audience, but only black

Scorsese.” They said, “Absolutely not. That’s

people were the performers and they had to go in

outrageous.” So I told them to forget it. Goodbye.

What was it?

Then the whole deal was off.

I’ll get to it, but I have to do this in order.

I didn’t have the clout 16 years later because I

through the back door.

Bob said, “I need a story idea that will enable Richard to be a jazz musician.” I think about it, do

I didn’t know that.

was in all sorts of financial mess. So it was called

some research, and get the idea. You remember

Not many do. He’d done Boxcar Bertha and Who’s

Part III, which was a mistake because it was never

George Raft? He was a dancer and entertainer but

That Knocking at My Door. So that was where it was

conceived as a Part III. It was conceived as an

he was also hooked up with gangsters. Eventually

left. Charlie Bluhdorn himself calls me up, with his

epilogue to comment on the first two movies.

he became a movie star, but he had come from

“IN THE CASE OF THE GODFATHER I THINK OF HOW LUCKY I WAS. THE MOST LUCK OF ALL WAS, THE AUDIENCE SEEMED TO BE READY FOR IT BECAUSE THE AUDIENCE ISN’T ALWAYS READY FOR THE MOVIE YOU’VE MADE. THEY MAY NOT BE READY FOR 10 YEARS, OR MAYBE THEY WERE READY FOR IT 10 YEARS EARLIER. TO HAVE ALL THOSE THINGS HAPPEN RIGHT, ONCE IN YOUR LIFETIME? LET'S FACE IT, THE GODFATHER MADE ME.” Viennese accent. “Francis, you are crazy. You’re not

What about The Cotton Club?

that world. I thought, What if the Richard Gere part

going to do it? You have the formula of Coca-Cola.

So I get a phone call out of the blue a year later and

was like that? In other words, he’s a jazz cornetist or

You’re not going to make more Coca-Cola?” I said,

it’s Bob Evans. His voice is almost trembling with

something but he sort of knows gangsters, and then

“Charlie, my opinion of Bob Evans, he has talent

emotion, sadness. He says, “Francis, this is Bob

he goes on to be a star, like George Raft. I wrote

but he was so tough on me and he’s so second-

Evans.” I said, “Oh, hi, Bob. How are you doing?” He

up two sentences, sent them to Evans, and said, “I

guessing of me, it’s such a struggle, I don’t want to

said, “I’m not doing well. I’m a little scared. You’ve

hope it helps.” Meanwhile, I was trying to write my

go through it again.”

got to help me with my child.” I said, “Of course, I’ll

dream script. I was always trying to write my dream

do anything.” I knew he had a boy. Is it an accident?

script—Megalopolis.

But I said, “OK, here’s my deal. One, I want a million dollars. That’s to write and direct it.” That

Is it drugs? He says, “I don’t mean my son. I mean

to me was like asking for a great fortune. “Number

my movie.” Because he had announced a movie

the script.” So I write a script and my idea is, I take

two, I want Bob Evans to have nothing to do with it. I

called The Cotton Club. It was to star Richard Gere

two men, Richard Gere and Maurice Hines, and their

don’t have to talk to him. He doesn’t read the script.

and the great Gregory Hines, and Evans was going

families. The idea was to have a movie that was sort

I don’t get his opinions. And number three, I don’t

to direct it. I asked him what was wrong with it. He

of like The Godfather, that criss-crossed between

want to call it some stupid sequel. I want to call it

said, “I’m going to direct this movie The Cotton Club

the white family and the black family. That was the

The Godfather Part II.”

but I need your advice. It’s very complicated. Can I

way I wrote the script. And since there’s so many

bring Richard Gere and Gregory Hines to see you?”

African-American people and white people in it, I

I said sure.

thought the theme of it ought to be slavery, which is

They pushed back. They said, “You can have the million dollars. You can have nothing to do with Bob Evans.” He was already in a little trouble I think

So Richard only signed his deal on the strict

Evans says, “It’s brilliant but only you can write

not just slavery as we know it in our country but for

with Paramount with some other stuff, but they

condition he would not play a gangster. In fact,

anyone, even in the mob. If you become beholden

gave him up like that. “But we can’t call the picture

Richard Gere can play the cornet, and he wanted

to a gangster then you become, in a way, his slave. I

The Godfather Part II.” I asked why not. They said,

to be a musician. I said, “Let Richard Gere be a

thought that was an interesting theme.

D E A D L I N E .C O M / AWA R D S L I N E

33

So I send the script to Evans and I say, “Thank you so much, I’m done now. Goodbye!” He said,

was that he didn’t have the money, and he thought

CEO, who I later learned was in debt to them for

that if he could present me…

gambling. There was a big lawsuit about who had

“It’s brilliant. It’s great. It’s the best script I ever read

the right to determine the cut of The Cotton Club.

but I have only one problem, Francis. Only you can

The money would materialize.

All this is going on while we’re trying to finish it. So it

direct it.” I said, “Bob, I thought this was all about

And it did but the money came from some very

was utter warfare.

you making your directing debut. You have a lot

strange places.

of good ideas and a lot of good opinions. Maybe

Then [Evans] and his guy said to me, “It’s too long. There’s too many black people and there’s

they don’t always agree with me, but that doesn’t

Las Vegas guys?

too much tap dancing.” Well, it’s The Cotton Club.

mean they aren’t good. You should do it.” He said,

Well, yeah, but not only that. They went to see Barry

What we did was, we preserved all those wonderful

“Well, I don’t feel I’m up to this script. This script is

Hirsch and said, “What is this stuff about Evans

Cotton Club performers who now, as we speak, are

so beyond my capability.” I said, “I’ll tell you what,

can’t come on the set and so on?” This is a true

all dead, but it’s all in that movie.

you do it, and the first week I’ll go and I’ll sit in your

story, I wasn’t there but he told me this. He said he

corner and if you’re scared or if you’re nervous or

had the contracts on the desk saying all of what I’m

course, Evans damned it. Everyone was expecting

anything I will be there for one week but I don’t

just saying—they swept it off the desk and they say,

The Godfather. It was never that.

want a credit. I don’t want a job. I just will do that

“ Now it’s off the table.”

The picture came out. It was received OK. Of

So you took another cut at it?

for you.” He asked me to come to New York, with

And the next thing that happens is that a guy

my wife and little Sofia, who was 14, to meet the

shows up. I’m not going to say his name but he was

I always felt that the movie got cut down; there was

talent. Lonette McKee and Gregory and Maurice

sent by that group. He shows up, and he’s sitting

20 minutes taken out and a lot of the black story

Hines were there, and all these great tap dancers

on a chair next to the producer Barrie Osborne, so I

got cut out. I found the Betamax of the original cut.

and Cotton Club-type girls. They were all wonderful.

know the guy is there. I’ll just call him Joey.

I don’t think in the release version of The Cotton

I’m a courteous guy. I’m not going to say, “Get

Club you really understand what’s happening

You ended up directing it, of course.

off the set,” or anything, but I get it that Joey's been

between the black folks and the white folks and

I made the deal. It was lock, stock, solid, final cut

sent and he’s just watching. He doesn’t say anything

the gangsters. You don’t quite get it because it’s

control and I went and began. That’s how I got to do

for three days. By a weird stroke of luck—don’t ask

been so truncated. So I asked MGM, the distributor,

The Cotton Club. When I got there, there’s only one

me how this happened—he realized that I was not

“Would it be OK if I made a new version?” Because I

piece of casting that had to be mutually approved,

in the wrong. I was just trying to do this movie and

didn’t own anything. And they said no. This was two

which was the young lady. Richard Gere was already

they were interfering with it. So, little by little, he

years ago. It was Gary Barber, who just left and was

cast. So for the young lady I wanted Diane Lane. He

started to protect me.

terrible. His position was, “The picture hasn’t done

agreed, and we cast her. So then I cast Bob Hoskins, rest in peace. Bob Hoskins and Fred Gwynne as the

This is very hard to explain. This Joey fellow was

anything. We won’t help you.”

pretty bright and, whatever his past was, was pretty

two gangsters. Evans hit the roof. He was furious. He

nice. I never, during all of The Godfather, I never got

You did it anyway?

said, “You cannot hire Fred Gwynne to be Frenchy!” I

to know anyone…

Fortunately, there was a little window before he

said, “Why not? He’s a wonderful actor.”

closed the door, and I had to say I would put up …In organized crime?

$40,000. They gave me access to the materials and

not have a Munster be in my movie.” I said, “Bob,

I was always advised by Mario Puzo, who did

I got them. To my horror, the 20 minutes that was

you forget. We made a deal. This isn’t The Godfather

everything from research. He said, “Don’t even be

taken out, no one knew where the negative was. It

where you can do this to me. I make the choice. I

friends,” and I wasn’t. But now Joey was there and

didn’t exist any more. We searched and searched

want to cast Fred Gwynne.” He said, “I forbid it.” I

he started protecting me. I was a little scared about

and finally found a good enough print. If you have a

said, “We’ll see.” We call my lawyer, Barry Hirsch,

the fact that he was protecting me. So ultimately,

good print you can copy a good print and then, with

who made the deal, and he said, “Of course you can

he weighed in. There was lots of trouble with the

a lot of expensive CG, you could bring it up. I ended

cast who you want.”

Evans side wanting to get the footage, and then

up putting up pretty much all the money, about half

when it was being finished, during the edit, there

a million dollars.

Evans said to me the classic line: “I forbid it. I will

So then Evans started getting at me through these other ways. I was working with the team he

were lawsuits—and there was a murder. I mean,

assembled and eventually I had to forbid him from

what went on behind the scenes of The Cotton

version that I technically own, would you let a little

I said, “If you come out with it again, with this

coming on the set because it was turning into The

Club is a novel. There was a murder connected with

stream of the income pay back my half a million

Godfather all over again. So the movie was made

the financing. They tried to seize the print, and we

dollars?” Gary Barber says, “No.” I don’t know why.

under this war, and when it got really heavy... I

would hide the print so they couldn’t get it, and

He’s not there any more, thank God. I guess he

discovered the reason he wanted me to direct it

Evans sued me. They even sort of co-opted my own

felt he had me because I didn’t own anything and

“AT THIS AGE, I HAVE TO TELL YOU, I AM MORE ENTHUSIASTIC AND EXCITED ABOUT THE CINEMA AND WHAT IT MEANS AND WHAT IT CAN BE, AND EVEN WITH ALL OF THE NEW DIGITAL ASPECTS OF IT, WHICH I THINK ARE BEING MISUSED.” 34

D E A D L I N E .C O M / AWA R D S L I N E

I had already committed to some of it. When we

shot in the throat so maybe he talks like this…” He

showed it, I was amazed that the movie could have

puts some Kleenex in his mouth. He did it all himself

been transformed so much. What had been a little

and then he took the little cheese and he nibbled

disjointed and out of balance, and not even totally

it. I remember, he took the lapel of his shirt and he

clear and maybe repetitive, just blossomed.

sort of creased it. “Their lapels are always creased,”

We showed it once at Telluride and I got the

he says. I’m sitting there, astonished, and then the

same reaction, which made me feel I wasn’t crazy.

phone rings. He picks up the phone and he starts

It was a new birth for the film. I said, “Let’s call it The

talking like the character. I’m like, “What the hell?

Cotton Club Encore.” There’s Gregory Hines, Bob

Who was that? What did they think?”

FRANCIS FORD COPPOLA

Hoskins, Fred Gwynne—all these people who are

When I had this whole transformation of

gone now. I restored the original ending. I think it’s

him into what you saw in The Godfather, I took a

because in a few years there will be the 50th

great and Lionsgate agreed. It’s only been shown

wild chance. I went to New York because I knew,

anniversary of the first film. I want to use that title

three times so far, but they’re going to release it in

whatever Charlie Bluhdorn said, that all the guys

I tried to use originally but wasn’t allowed to, one

theaters later in the year.

would fall in line because they were afraid of

that came from Mario Puzo. It’s Coda: The Death

So the Apocalypse Final Cut version and this

him. I went to his office and he came out to the

of Michael Corleone. But ‘coda’ means epilogue. In

version of The Cotton Club are the best version of

conference room where I had put a [videotape]

other words, you got part one and part two and

those movies and there’s logic to why. I’m older, I’m

machine. He said, “Francis, what are you doing

then the epilogue.

less frightened and I’m less easily bullied. What have

here?” I said, “Charlie, I just want to show you

I got to lose?

something.” He looked at it, he saw the door open,

Why didn’t the studio like that?

and then Marlon Brando came out, with the blonde

They probably wanted a Godfather IV and V. There’s

You’ve left your Godfather trilogy alone?

hair. He said, “No, no, absolutely not.” He kept

a cut I want to make that would be 14 minutes

There was a chronological version that wove

watching. “That’s incredible,” he said. And that’s

shorter. Usually, I go back and make them longer.

together the first two parts and added some

how Brando got the part.

This would be effective, and it makes the ending

footage. It was quite good.

break your heart. Jim Gianopulos is the head of

That was a favor to Charlie Bluhdorn. The idea was

And they fought you on Al Pacino, whose slow

Paramount. An extremely nice man. And so what

that it was going to be shown twice on NBC only and

build of Michael Corleone from war hero to

I want to say to them is, “If you allow me this, you

never again, and then they just went and put it out.

steely mob boss was superb, even though you

won’t have to pay me.”

cast him thinking there was only going to be The intercutting between Michael Corleone in

the one movie…

Why all this looking back?

Vegas and his young father in Italy is classic.

Well, they first wanted Ryan O’Neal. And then

All I know is maybe I’m older, maybe I’m more

Did Robert De Niro really almost make himself

Redford. I said, “The guy ought to really look Sicilian.”

circumspect. I want to show Sofia a new version,

ineligible because he was going to play Don

They said, “Sicilians are blonde and blue-eyed

because she is so beautiful in it and so touching.

Corleone’s bodyguard in the original?

because they were occupied by the French for

She wasn’t an actress, but she was the real thing,

He did. He was going to play Paulie Gatto, but he got

many years. So there could be a blonde, blue-eyed

playing that 19-year-old Italian girl in love with her

the part after they got Pacino out of The Gang That

Sicilian.” What had happened is, I had met Pacino

own cousin. Godfather III as The Death of Michael

Couldn’t Shoot Straight. When De Niro was being

before, so when I read the book I just pictured him.

Corleone is doubly painful because at the end, he

auditioned for that he said to me, “I don’t want to

When you do that it’s very hard to get that out of

doesn’t die, but he does worse than die. He loses

lose the part of Paulie Gatto, but if I could get the

your mind. That’s why I was so persistent.

everything he loves—and he lives. There are certain

lead in that...” I said, “I’ll hold the part for you. If you

things in life that are worse than death.

don’t get the lead the part’s yours, but if you do get

You think of all that could have gone differently

the lead, God bless you,” and he did get it.

on this film and I wonder, do you believe in the

You took some heat casting your daughter

movie gods?

Sofia, who has become a fine filmmaker in her

It’s remarkable how close that opportunity

I believe that once in a while you get lucky. I’ve been

own right. Was it right to put so much pressure

came to not happening, and also how you had

unlucky, but in the case of The Godfather I think

on her, when she was untested?

to fight to get Brando, even secretly making a

of how lucky I was. Even with the first Godfather,

Well, I felt betrayed by a journalist by the name

screen test to show to Bluhdorn.

not only was I lucky to have this unbelievable cast

of Peter Biskind. And Tina Brown. I was asked if a

That’s all true, but Brando was probably one of the

but this unbelievable director of photography,

journalist could come to the set and report on the

smartest people I ever knew and he knew what I

Gordy Willis. This unbelievable art director [Warren

movie, but Peter came in with a story all ready to

was doing. I went to his house at, like, 7am. I’d heard

Clymer], this unbelievable costume designer,

write because he knew that there was a controversy

that he didn’t like loud noises and that he wore

Johnnie Johnstone, who did On the Waterfront and

about the fact that I had cast Sofia. He’s the one

earplugs. I had two young guys with me, and I said,

taught me so much. Then the most luck of all was,

that came out with the article first that sort of

“Let’s not talk. Let’s do ninja signals.” We went to

the audience seemed to be ready for it because the

greatly criticized her performance and started that

his house, set up very early. I had brought Italian

audience isn’t always ready for the movie you’ve

whole trend, that I had cast my daughter when

cheese, a little sausage, and little Italian cigars,

made. They may not be ready for 10 years, or maybe

Paramount didn’t want me to.

and I put them around. We were all ready when all

they were ready for it 10 years earlier. To have all

of a sudden the door opens and out comes this

those things happen right, once in your lifetime?

Why did you?

beautiful—he was 47—guy in a Japanese robe with

Let’s face it, The Godfather made me.

I was in a tough position on that matter because

long, blonde hair, and he looks around and he sees what’s going on.

He rolls up his hair, takes some shoe polish and makes his hair dark. He says, “The character gets

they wanted me to put actresses in the role that The first two were hard to measure up to when

were much more mature. My idea of the character

The Godfather Part III was made.

was, an 18 or 19-year-old who had a crush on her

I want to try that again, and I’ll ask Paramount

cousin. That’s why I had cast Winona Ryder. But she D E A D L I N E .C O M / AWA R D S L I N E

35

didn’t say, “I can’t do it.” We kept waiting for her, and

to how I did Apocalypse Now, where I line up a

she kept stalling, and we kept delaying. I had shot

whole bunch of territories and I put it together with

“I’ll give you $2 million,” or whatever. You take

absolutely anything I could without the girl, and only

the bank. In one case, one of these technology

those pledge letters to the bank and come up

then did Winona tell me she was dropping out. I had

companies... I can’t say which one. But as you know,

with a completion guarantee and you’ve created

no choice but to close down the picture.

in the next five years the whole film industry is going

the financing for a picture. You have partners,

to be owned by Apple, Facebook, Amazon. One of

but most of the final cash is a bank loan. I have a

like 27 to 30 and I felt that that would destroy

those newly emerged media giants is intrigued by

pretty big company and we’re possibly able to be

what I was trying to do. Sofia didn’t want to be an

the idea.

a partner, and I’m totally willing to do it, so that

Paramount had all these actresses who were

actress. She wanted to be a painter at the time, but

I am so used to living with unsure situations

So we went to all the territories and each says,

would be my ace in the hole.

every time I had put her in a movie as a little girl,

that I don’t know that I’ll ever in my lifetime have a

her natural personality always came through for

sure situation. Studios pretty much don’t do these

social media, despite what you think, is not

me. I always put my kids in movies because I had

movies any more. Even when they do, they don’t

content. Anyone who’s ever really explored social

them around. Sofia did that for me, and I believe if

finance them. I’ll use the complicated formula that I

media—it hasn’t been around that long—knows

I do this new cut that her performance will be very

used for Apocalypse, which I turned over to my good

that you get really bored quickly and you realize,

touching as a little 19-year-old girl. That’s one of the

friend George Lucas and he then used for Star Wars.

“Why am I wasting my time? What do I care?”

things that can be so improved.

I’ve been saying for 10 years that, basically,

Now it’s grandparents who go on it because they Is that how he ended up owning the

see photos of the children; little kids. When the big

were coming for Michael but they got her. And [in

merchandising and future films?

media companies understand that social media

the press] they were coming for me but they chose

You know how he ended up with the

is not perpetual content... Well, what’s important

Sofia. I don’t have malice against anyone at this

merchandising? No one knew the merchandising

is that those companies are the movie industry.

point in my life, but, to this day, it upsets me that

even was important. But they would put in a

And one of those companies has expressed some

Peter Biskind was the one who was given access

clause that said everything belonged to them.

interest in being sort of a home for it for U.S.

to the set and he used it to damn my daughter. I

Only George’s lawyer, because of the deal that

and then helping me gather commitments from

believe that in a new version of The Death of Michael

I’m going to explain to you, he wrote it up, and so

Australia, France, Germany, Japan. But I have my

Corleone, Sofia’s performance will vindicate her.

when push came to shove, everything else was his,

own company, which can finance too.

I felt that the plot of Godfather III was that they

”EVERY HUMAN BEING IS UNIQUE, AND TO BE AN ARTIST AND NOT MAKE YOUR WORK BE TOTALLY PERSONAL IS A WASTE OF THE OPPORTUNITY THAT EVERY ARTIST HAS.“ Few unmade movies have intrigued with

which turned out to be the merchandising. That’s

You’ve been through this before, gambling on

possibilities more than Megalopolis. And now

how he got it. The way we did it was this: we put up

Apocalypse Now and One from the Heart. You

you are ready to come back and make your first

the initial money and then we went around to the

are much better off financially now. Would

big-scale film in decades…

whole world and sold the picture. Apocalypse Now

you put yourself at stake again to see through

At this age, I have to tell you, I am more enthusiastic

was sold on the idea that it was going to have Steve

your dream project?

and excited about the cinema and what it means

McQueen. Then he got very ill and it was going to be

It depends on the ratio. Say we’re talking about a

and what it can be, and even with all of the new

Clint Eastwood.

$120m movie, or it could be $80m. It’s a big hunk

digital aspects of it, which I think are being misused.

of dough. My company is worth much more than

As for Megalopolis… Well, it looks good. I mean, we

Playing the Kurtz role that Brando played?

that. Also, I went bankrupt once, so I have always

made the offer now to several actors. I can’t say

They all wanted to play Kurtz, because you get the

been very frightened of debt. Debt’s scary when

they’ve accepted, but they were very enthusiastic.

same money [as Captain Willard] and you only

they come and they tell your wife she can’t have an

One of them is Jude Law and another Shia LaBeouf.

do it for three weeks. McQueen wanted to be that

account at the grocery store any more. We’ll see.

I may shortly have my lead actress. The whole

part because he would only have to be away from

world of casting is so different today—when you

his family for three weeks, and Clint also said he

How best to describe the ambition behind the

invite an actor to read a script, right away they

wanted to do that.

new movie? I’ve heard you had hundreds of

want an offer to go with it, when sometimes you

Clint is great and his performance in The Mule

pages written, and shot second unit.

just want to get together with them and see if

was so good. I’d give anything to work with him, and

Basically, what it does is it takes a Roman epic

they’re the right choice. Right now I have several

I proposed that. It’s hard, because Clint can just do

based on real things that happened 2,000 years

enthusiastic people.

what he wants. He can make any movie he wants

ago, because really America is like the modern

and just direct it if he wishes. He hasn’t really gotten

historical counterpart of Rome. We’re just like

back to me yet, but I can wish.

Rome. We’re practical. We’re good engineers. We

I don’t have any official backers. I have a sort of philosophy of how to do it, and it’s not dissimilar

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D E A D L I N E .C O M / AWA R D S L I N E

have project power. That’s what Rome had, so I

we get attacked by Islamic terrorists. My movie is all

sort of thought America was the modern Rome

about New York as the center of the world, but how

and therefore, if I set this particular story that’s a

do you make a movie about the center of the world

famous Roman thing in modern Manhattan, it sort

without it dealing with the fact that, right in the

of worked a little bit.

heart of it, it was attacked and thousands of people were killed? How do you make a movie of utopia

There is an accident, and you have an architect trying to rebuild the city as a utopia. And a

with that history?

So I tried. I wrote and I wrote, and finally I

mayor trying to stop him.

abandoned it and then later on I went into a new

‘Utopia’ in Greek means the place that doesn’t

way of thinking, and worked on that. I wasn’t fully

exist. Personally, and I say this with great sincerity,

confident, but then I lost weight and it felt like time.

I believe it can exist. I believe in the genius of the

FRANCIS FORD COPPOLA

I looked at some of the tests and some of the

advice would you give about risk to a young entrepreneurial filmmaker?

human species; in its ability to come up with

readings of actors for Megalopolis and I said that

They must decide what kind of a career they want.

solutions to all of the problems that plague us. But

same fatal thing; it wasn’t as bad as I thought. There

Do they want to be an artist or do they want to

the biggest problem of all is to get those people out

was something here. So I began to become excited

make a lot of money? If they want to be an artist,

of the way who like it the way it is, because they’re

about it again. I think I have a very viable script but

the way to be an artist is to remember that every

already in a perfect situation. In other words, there’s

I also had all the second unit shot already, and I

human being born—the fact that those gametes

already a whole group that control petroleum so

began to have some interest from some actors. It’s

got together, and you were conceived—is a trillion-

they’re never going to get rid of petroleum.

a big, ambitious project. It has a big cast.

to-one chance. So every human being is unique,

I think if the film could be fortunate enough

and to be an artist and not make your work be

Self-interested, wealthy people…

to be taken by the industry not so much as,

totally personal is a waste of the opportunity that

But we have the genius to make a society. The script

“Here’s another wacky Coppola thing, he’ll never

every artist has.

talks about what that society is like. My movie was

do it,” or, “Where is he going to get the money?”

about utopia. You know, so many films today, Mad

But instead, “This is exciting. We want him to do

by your heart and your most sincere instincts

Max and everything, the future—even in some of the

this...” There are 12 big parts and now it becomes

then you’ll have… They say a wine has terroir—a

gorgeous films—is always a terrible place. To me,

about, how do you get all these actors working

DREAMS OF A LIFE

when I was a kid and saw The Shape of Things to

together, and pay them?

Come in 1934, the future was a great thing. It’s what

I’ve told my own children, if you make films

From left: Emilio Estevez, Rob Lowe, C. Thomas Howell, Patrick Swayze & Tom Cruise in The Outsiders; Gene Hackman in The Conversation; Gregory Hines in The Cotton Club; Martin Sheen in Apocalypse Now.

we all wish it could be. When I went to Disneyland, I

Is Megalopolis the fulfillment of a dream at

remember the thing that just knocked me out was

the end of a great career, or the start of things

the Monsanto House of the Future. I wanted to live

to come, where you return to large-canvas

in that house. People get scared and worried about

filmmaking once more?

A.I., and that’s how certain people gain power. Now,

I think I will only play on the large canvas because

person who knows wine can drink some and tell

that’s with self-driving trucks that supposedly will

I’ve made all the little experimental films that I

you where it’s from, and what kind of grape it is,

put people out of work. But they don’t say the other

wanted to experiment with, and now I’m ready to

and come close to telling you what year it was

half, which is that maybe more people will become

try out what I think I’ve learned. I’m 80, but I have a

made—a film has terroir, too. When you see a

paid citizens who’ll get out of employment. You’ll

102-year-old uncle who just wrote a new opera that

Sofia Coppola movie, you don’t need two minutes

get a check not as a worker but as a shareholder of

has been well received. Genetically, I could have 20

to know that she made it. Godard once said, “If

the country. Why shouldn’t you get $70,000 a year

years, and I will need that long to do everything I’m

you cut the credits off a movie you don’t know

as a dividend from the great wealth of our beautiful

excited about wanting to do.

who made it. But if you make your film personal,

country? You could if some people don’t gobble it

by inserting your unique personality, then people

all up for themselves. So in other words, the fear of

A last question. You risked everything,

will know who made that film just from a minute

losing work isn’t the issue, because you’ll be able

stared bankruptcy in the face, and now you

of it, from a second of it.” As they do with my

to do the work you love. That’s what my script for

own some of your movies, you’re one of the

daughter and some of the great filmmakers we

Megalopolis explores.

biggest American wine manufacturers and

have today, both young and old. You know who

you own luxury hotels around the world. What

made it without having the credits. ★

I was shooting the second unit in New York, and

D E A D L I N E .C O M / AWA R D S L I N E

37

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D E A D L I N E .C O M / AWA R D S L I N E

Per Saari back in 2004, their subsequent collaboration would

D I S R U P T O R S

W

hen Nicole Kidman first met

spawn a brave new wave of television and film production.

From their first film Rabbit Hole in 2010, to this year’s

second season of smash hit limited series Big Little Lies, Kidman and Saari’s company Blossom Films

continues to place passion, stellar storytelling and loyal relationships ahead of the easier road of financial gain.

Working with Reese Witherspoon and Bruna Papandrea’s Pacific Standard on Big Little Lies, and now reteaming with Papandrea to produce two more adaptations from the work of Lies author Liane Moriarty, Truly Madly Guilty and Nine Perfect Strangers, Blossom is currently hard at work making HBO’s The Undoing, in which Kidman also stars, helmed by Susanne Bier.

All of these projects are drawn from novels by female writers—Jean Hanff Korelitz and Moriarty. And

The Blossom Films duo are forging a new path for women-fronted storytelling

BY ANTONIA BLYTH

NICOLE KIDMAN +PER SAARI D E A D L I N E .C O M / AWA R D S L I N E

39

next up is The Expatriates, adapted from Janice

She just knows exactly what she wants and it’s

that, but it seemed very logical to me. David

Y.K. Lee’s book—a project Kidman and Saari seized

just wonderful having her at the helm. And then

then went and did his own thing with her, which

upon as it allowed them to cast women from all

we’ve got Hugh Grant and Noah Jupe and Donald

has always been the way, and then we all go and

over the world in central roles.

Sutherland, so we’ve got a fantastic cast as well,

create our characters even beyond that. So it’s

and obviously [writer] David E. Kelley.

always all of us working together.

In addition to putting female talent at the forefront of all they do, Expatriates—the first

We’re all very close. One of the strongest things

project under their first-look deal with Amazon—

What was it about the story that felt like a

that we value is, I suppose, the intimacy and the

kicks off their working relationship with studio

Blossom Films must-have?

closeness of the relationships. I just think that

head Jennifer Salke, a woman Kidman sought to

Kidman: Well David said, “I’ve written this and are

reaps huge benefits when it goes far beyond just a

embrace as she stepped into a powerful, formerly

you interested in it?” And it started with him. He

working, business-like relationship. You’re dealing

male-occupied role.

was the one that gave it to us initially, and then

with art, but you’re also dealing with emotions,

the three of us chose to take it to HBO because

and it just has to be deeply personal for us.

And it was the resounding success of that female-starrer Big Little Lies that really paved the

we felt we had such a good relationship with them

Saari: It is passion-based, as you said. That’s a

way for these new projects, a trailblazing effort

because of Big Little Lies. Plus, David loves them.

very important word for us. I think sometimes

Kidman and Saari wanted so badly to continue

They just jumped on it immediately.

passion means you become a little subversive in

with Lies’ second season that they flew to

Saari: And this was on the heels of Big Little Lies

what you do, just by the nature of the passion.

Australia eight times in three months to persuade

of course, which was a great experience for all of

Moriarty to produce an unpublished novella for the

us and a little bit of a family was formed, which we

story basis.

just wanted to continue forward, onwards into the

Bier on The Undoing, and adapting books

next project.

written by women. You've collaborated with

on the New York set of The Undoing, Kidman

Kidman: And it was before Jennifer Salke was at

Reese Witherspoon and Bruna Papandrea...

BIG LITTLE FAMILY

Amazon. We just placed it there and it has been

Kidman: I’ve always worked with a huge group

the perfect fit. We have such a strong relationship

of male and female directors. We’re working with

Here, in the midst of shooting prison scenes

Laura Dern, Jean-Marc Vallée, Nicole Kidman, Nathan Ross, Alexander Skarsgård, David E. Kelley, Zoë Kravitz, Reese Witherspoon, Gregg Fienberg, Bruna Papandrea, Shailene Woodley and Per Saari gather for a family photo as Big Little Lies scooped four Golden Globes for its first season.

with them now.

But it was strange because with Big Little Lies

You’re showcasing women—hiring Susanne

talent. We’re working with people we like. I mean, yes, often female stories and female directors.

Season 2 and The Undoing, it was like, “Which one

For me as an actor, I’ve really gone after female

are we going to do?” With Big Little Lies, we went

directors recently because the statistics are so

after Liane [Moriarty] to build that novella, and

abominable. But our company is really based on

then that came to fruition, and so we went, “Well

the unique voices that we discover.

and Saari discuss their ongoing mission to tell

let’s do Big Little Lies first and then do The Undoing

Saari: And fostering those voices, and allowing

addictive, quality tales of the human experience,

after that.”

those voices to be pure and authentic. Protecting

keep at the top of their rolodex, and why Kidman

You took eight trips to Australia in three

and those storytellers as we bring those stories

is resisting the director’s chair—but maybe not for

months to make Big Little Lies Season 2

into reality. That’s something that I think Blossom

much longer.

happen. This was a passion project, and

really believes in.

the long list of talented international women they

those voices. Making sure we protect those stories

clearly when you set out to do something, you You’re on the set of The Undoing right now;

mean it.

Your first-look deal with Amazon—Jennifer

how’s that experience going?

Kidman: Well I love hanging out with her anyway,

Salke has talked about there being a need

Nicole Kidman: Absolutely dreadful [laughs].

so that’s easy for me. She’s very, very close to

for the kind of addictive content you’re

Per Saari: We’re shooting in a prison.

these characters, so to then build a novella that

producing. Was it specifically Jennifer that

Kidman: No, it’s been great. We’re working with

wasn’t going to be published, that’s a very unusual

drew you to the deal? Did it just seem like a

Susanne Bier, who’s just such a powerhouse.

thing to do. I’m not sure many people have done

natural fit for Blossom?

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D E A D L I N E .C O M / AWA R D S L I N E

”I’VE ALWAYS WORKED WITH A HUGE GROUP OF MALE AND FEMALE DIRECTORS. WE’RE WORKING WITH TALENT. WE’RE WORKING WITH PEOPLE WE LIKE. I MEAN, YES, OFTEN FEMALE STORIES AND FEMALE DIRECTORS. FOR ME AS AN ACTOR, I’VE REALLY GONE AFTER FEMALE DIRECTORS RECENTLY BECAUSE THE STATISTICS ARE SO ABOMINABLE. BUT OUR COMPANY IS REALLY BASED ON THE UNIQUE VOICES THAT WE DISCOVER.“ —NICOLE KIDMAN

Kidman: For me, it was very much about Jen. I

world. So we’re very diverse like that and we also

to end up in the world, is something that is really

met Jen, I liked Jen, I wanted to support a female

understand different scenarios for making up

key for us.

leader of a company taking over a massive

financing for different projects. We’re willing to

Kidman: Then I go and work as an actor

position, and that was very, very personal. It was

work anywhere. I love that we’re international; that

separately on certain things, like I just did with Jay

so much about her.

we can go anywhere to make something. That

Roach, where I’m not producing. Charlize [Theron]

was the appeal of The Expatriates, that we have

was producing that, and I’m happy to go do that.

So many of the things that we do are about the actual people. We’re not going to just sign on

the opportunity to give women from all different

It gives us time when I do that. We’re able to still

to something because we’re told, “This is a great

nationalities lead roles and base it somewhere

develop and really take the time, because the

project,” or, “This is going to be financially viable,”

overseas, which is really interesting. Then we have

other thing we don’t like doing is being rushed or

or any of those things. We couldn’t care less about

Truly Madly Guilty at HBO, and also Liane’s other

backed into a place where we’re suddenly under

that stuff.

really, really good book, Nine Perfect Strangers, at

an enormous amount of financial duress.

Saari: We’re also very, very hands on. Nicole and

Hulu. David E. Kelley is writing that.

I really get into the trenches and it’s something

Saari: The format of all of these series is really

You place the relationships and the talent

we’re very proud of, that we can offer filmmakers

important for us too—matching the format with

above the financial side of filmmaking. Do you

and writers and people that we work with. That

the material. Big Little Lies was a little bit of a new

recall a moment where you said, “I’m going to

takes real decisiveness and focus about what

thing for us because we were able to explore,

use my powers for good. I’m in this position,

projects we take on. So again, the passion factor

essentially, making a big seven-hour movie, and

I’m going to change things.”

is very important because it determines what we

that felt like the right format for that particular

Kidman: Oh, I don’t know. It sounds very

can actually take on as a company.

story. The Expatriates is an ongoing series, and

grandiose. I don’t know. We’ve never thought like

Kidman: We’re global in the sense that we

Nine Perfect Strangers is a limited series. How we

that, right?

have relationships with people all over the

look at projects, and ascertain how they’re going

Saari: No, although our first movie was Rabbit D E A D L I N E .C O M / AWA R D S L I N E

41

found shameful, like domestic violence in Big Little Lies, and in Truly Madly Guilty there are elements of maternal guilt. Do you consciously choose to bring those to light?

Kidman: We’re interested in yearning and desire, and temptation and shame and loss and grief.

Saari: And families and all of their dimensions.

This is important, though, because I think what draws us to material is an exploration of a lot of those things. There’s a whole spectrum, and it's all stuff we’re really interested in exploring as the human experience.

Kidman: Obviously it was very important [in Big Little Lies Season 2] that Celeste is on the road to healing, but she’s in a very, very raw place and she’s still dealing with what got her into an abusive relationship in the first place. Those parts of your personality which you put you into a relationship like that, unless they get dealt with and healed in a particular way, you can continue the pattern.

That’s frightening. She is dealing with the loss of an abusive man, but still the man who was the father On the set of Big Little Lies Season 2, Nicole Kidman and Per Saari discuss a scene.

”THAT IS ONE OF THE REALLY EXCITING THINGS ABOUT MAKING EPISODIC TELEVISION RIGHT NOW, THAT THE FORMATS CAN CHANGE AND BE VERY FLUID. AMAZON HAS ACTUALLY BEEN VERY EXCITED ABOUT THE DIFFERENT POSSIBILITIES OF STRUCTURING A SHOW. FROM THINGS THAT ARE TWO EPISODES, TO ONGOING, TO 15 MINUTES, TO WHATEVER IT IS. THEY’RE OPEN TO ALL OF IT BECAUSE THE LANDSCAPE IS EVOLVING SO QUICKLY THAT THEY KNOW YOU HAVE TO BE CREATIVE ABOUT THAT.“ Hole, which was intended to be a $15 million

book finished. Partly that was because we trusted

of her children. There’s raw truth to that. What

studio film and ended up being a $3.5 million tiny

and we knew the synopsis—we knew what [Liane

does that mean? And she's dealing with grief. Not

independent film, but with all the creative control

Moriarty] was going to do with it—but that was

just her own, but her mother-in-law's and her

in the world. I remember looking at Nicole and

where we jumped in. That’s very unusual.

children's. They’re all grieving.

just thinking to ourselves, We have a responsibility

To come back to something you said earlier:

With The Expatriates, you touched on

here but we can kind of do whatever we want. And

you made the point that it’s not always about

grabbing the opportunity to have different

there’s tremendous freedom in that—thinking

making decisions around gender; basically it’s

female roles from all over the world, but

John Cameron Mitchell, the director, and all of us

and working outside the system a little bit, really

great people and great talent...

what else about that particular story was so

changing the parameters in a way that makes

Kidman: But it is about, for me, every chance I can

compelling to you?

things creative and beautiful.

get, going, “I know this woman is really good.” So

Kidman: There’s this thing of when you’re away

Kidman: And also trying to think laterally. Right

what we’re doing right now is we always explore

from home, what do you become when you’re

now the industry is so open to so many different

and have a long list of woman all over the world

trying to set up a life that isn’t home—isn't your

possibilities that if you can think laterally, you can

whose careers we’re interested in or we’re tracking.

hometown, or your home country—and being

come up with ways to make things. You can really

And that’s passion. Because we’re excited.

away from loved ones and family members?

forge new territory, or forge a different path, which is really exciting.

Like for Nine Perfect Strangers, we were going to buy the book before we’d actually seen the

42

D E A D L I N E .C O M / AWA R D S L I N E

Abroad is really fascinating to me. My sister is an Your narratives—particularly the ones you’ve

expat, and all of my friends, having come from

selected from Liane Moriarty’s work—deal

Australia, have lived that expatriate culture. It’s just

with hidden issues that women have typically

ripe and I’ve never seen it.

Saari: And I think exploring another world too.

How do you feel that your mission as a

taking that, Jane.”

I mean Hong Kong is such a fascinating and

company has evolved over time? You

Saari: And just to add to the pride in Big Little Lies,

delicious place. We really were interested in

launched nine years ago, have the goalposts

the second season was a daunting task bringing

exploring that for a television show. It hasn’t been

moved as the industry is evolving and

that together. There were no deals, nobody

done before.

changing into something new?

was ever planning on making it, and it was only

Kidman: We’d love to give Amazon a massive

because of that novella that Liane created that we

Obviously all Liane’s stories are fantastic too,

series. We consider ourselves very responsible, but

were able to plant the seed in everybody’s mind

and Truly Madly Guilty is next...

I think we’re still incredibly dedicated to getting

and form the coalitions to bring everybody back

Saari: There’s also The Last Anniversary, which

small films made. We’re sitting on a number

together to make a second season.

we’re making as an Australian show. It’s a fantastic

of screenplays that are smaller budget and

Kidman: The second season’s not a latte; it’s a

book, by the way, if you haven’t read it.

independent and we’re still very committed to

double espresso.

Kidman: That’s Liane's favorite. That’s the one

them. We would love to continue creating a couple

she says she most wants made. I’m not in The Last

more successful series but it’s always big dreams

Big Little Lies seemed to really open the

Anniversary.

and [then] reality.

door to so many other stories that perhaps

Saari: There’s a bit of multitasking going on

Saari: And big swings which we’ve generally

wouldn’t have got a look in. Like The

here, just in terms of the various productions, but

enjoyed taking, and I think we’ve learned from

Expatriates and The Undoing at HBO.

they’re nicely staggered. From The Undoing to The

those and understood that great things can

Kidman: It was this massive surprise to us, to

Expatriates and Nine Perfect Strangers, there’s a

come out of those big swings. And there’s some

Reese, to everybody, but it has definitely helped

nice pacing to it all which seems to be working out.

confidence in that which allows us to really

changed the landscape and I’m just so happy to

formulate things going into the future.

be a part of that. Or a small part of it. In the same

You showcase these brilliant female writers

Kidman: And always being open to joining forces

way that Ryan Murphy did when he set out and

who might have otherwise been dismissed as

with people. We love collaboration.

did things like Nip/Tuck originally. I mean that was

‘chick lit’, despite their literary abilities.

Saari: We’ve found some wonderful partners over

unheard of, those series. They were so incredibly

the years, all of whom we really like, and that’s a

different and then you look at Glee, right? All of

because things get lost. And if people lose track

little bit of a secret weapon right there, I have to

those things, they’d not been done.

of a book after three years and it disappears, it’s

say. Those really fantastic partners.

Saari: And that is one of the really exciting things

Saari: It’s allowing those stories to be out there,

something we feel a real responsibility [to get

about making episodic television right now, that

made]. We’ll tell an author, “We really will do our

Will you team up with Reese and Bruna again?

the formats can change and be very fluid. Amazon

very best,” and we take that very seriously. Starting

Kidman: Obviously we’re with Hello Sunshine and

has actually been very excited about the different

from that standpoint of protection and a belief in

Reese for Big Little Lies Season 2, and we would

possibilities of structuring a show. From things

the material is really the center of everything that

do another thing with them in a heartbeat. We’re

that are two episodes, to ongoing, to 15 minutes, to

we do.

already working again with Bruna Papandrea on

whatever it is. They’re open to all of it because the

Nine Perfect Strangers and Truly Madly Guilty.

landscape is evolving so quickly that they know

Will you ever become a directing/producing

Saari: And then David E. Kelley on Undoing.

you have to be creative about that. We love that

team? Are you feeling the pull of the

Kidman: And David on Nine Perfect Strangers.

too, because you’re able to tell different stories

director’s chair?

Love David.

that work in different ways.

Kidman: No [laughs].

Saari: And the other David, David Lindsay-Abaire, is doing something for us which will be announced

That was a very emphatic no.

Kidman: Right now with the producing and the

very soon.

Loyalty and those ongoing relationships are

Just having Amazon behind you giving you that reach will change the landscape.

Saari: And their support of the film side of things

acting... I mean I love acting, and that’s still so

very important for us and something we really,

also. I think this answers your question before

much a part of who I am and what I do. So the

really value in all of this topsy-turvy world.

about what would you want to change: I think for

idea of moving into directing is just overwhelming

Kidman: And we love Susanne Bier. I’d love to

me it’s actually what would you want to preserve,

and, I think for me, it’s lovely to bring directors in.

work with her again.

which is film and that format, which really seems

It’s an enormous amount of work and time to be

like it’s unfortunately withering a little bit.

the director of a series; it’s exhausting. So I don’t

If you had your way, what kind of changes

have that wherewithal right now. I also have young

would you like to effect in the industry

believe in. It’s so relevant and something that we

children, so it’s just not possible. If it was one pilot

through the course of having this company?

want to support. We love movies and Amazon

That’s something I think both of us really

or something, maybe, but even then, we’re very

Kidman: Getting things made, which seems like

makes them. It seems like fewer and fewer people

day-by-day. We do have a series called Roar...

a no-brainer now, was actually something that

are making them. It is something that we want to

hadn’t been done in the sense of five females at

keep out there.

the forefront of a series that was considered a

Kidman: And now we go back to prison...

Saari: Yeah, Roar. Everyone thinks Nicole says ‘raw’, but it’s as in, “the lion roars,” and it’s an anthology. You’ll love it because it’s an anthology.

very, very particular, niche demographic. When

It’s by... Oh, we probably shouldn’t tell you too

you’re making a thing about mothers with

You’re literally shooting in a prison. Nicole,

much about it because we’re not supposed to.

kindergarteners, that sounds like a very small

that makes me picture you way back, when

I’ll stop.

demographic type of series where you go, “Well

you starred in Bangkok Hilton. It came out in

Kidman: Done! We’re done [laughs].

who’s going to be interested in that?” But I love

1989. It's certainly been a long road for you

Saari: There might be something in there for

putting topical issues with entertainment. And

since that show.

Nicole to direct. I don’t know, I haven’t lost hope

then Jane Campion said to us when she saw

Kidman: That was a limited series, and that was

on that one.

it, “It’s a latte, because it’s frothy on the top and

my first big success. So in a weird way, I came

bitter and strong underneath.” I was like, “I’m

home when I did Big Little Lies. ★ D E A D L I N E .C O M / AWA R D S L I N E

43

Meet the director whose comedy and compassion helped to bring Spain into the present day

D I S R U P T O R S

PEDRO ALMODÓVAR

BY DAMON WISE

transgressive works of American filmmakers such as Andy Warhol and John Waters, whose 1972 shockfest Pink Flamingos made a huge impact—and in the dark shadow of fascism a bright new movement was growing.

By the mid-’70s it had a name—“La Movida Madrileña”, translated rather liberally as the “The Madrilenian Groove”—and Almodóvar was its filmmaker in residence, shooting outrageous Super-8 shorts with such lurid titles as Two Whores, or, a Love Story that Ends in Marriage (1974), The Fall of Sodom (1975) and Sex Comes and Goes (1977).

It was this Pedro Almodóvar that caused a stir in 1980 with his scatty, scatological debut Pepi, Luci, Bom, a ragged, punk-infused, Day-Glo, druggy comedy about the adventures of three very different women living in the Spanish capital. It was the epitome of bad taste, a stream of of lewd jokes and kinky sex allusions that reaches a bizarre yet perfectly logical conclusion at the film’s unofficial centerpiece: a General Erections contest.

But Almodóvar was a dark horse. Since moving to Madrid at the age of 16 he’d been a regular at the Spanish Film Archive, where he discovered a whole new world of cinema: Italian neo-realism, British Free Cinema, the French Nouvelle Vague,

I

silent movies and American melodrama. Within three years, Almodóvar proved there was more to his filmmaking than simply n terms of dramatic creativity there are three Spanish icons,” says academic

shock and scandal; with the equally provocative, convent-set

and critic Maria Delgado. “Miguel de Cervantes, Federico García Lorca

Dark Habits in 1983, he injected a streak of melancholy that revealed a sensitive

and Pedro Almodóvar.” But while Cervantes has been dead for over 400

and compassionate heart beneath the trashy façade.

years, and Lorca over 80, at the age of 79, the filmmaker from La Mancha

From then on, Almodóvar has been on a winning streak that took him as far as

continues to represent his homeland at the highest level, this year return-

the Oscars not once but twice: firstly, in the Best Foreign Language Film category,

ing to the Cannes Competition with his 22nd feature film Pain and Glory,

with a nomination for 1988’s Women on the Verge of a Nervous Breakdown, and

the semi-autobiographical tale of a director in decline (played by Antonio

secondly—and most impressively—in the Best Director/Screenplay categories

Banderas), ruminating on his life choices.

For Almodóvar, the last 40 years have been nothing but extraordinary. Back

with nominations for Talk to Her (2002).

Remarkably, though, Almodóvar has always resisted the siren call of Hol-

in the late ’60s he was working as an admin assistant for a Spanish telecom

lywood: 1997’s Live Flesh was originally due to be his English language debut, and

company, but when he clocked off at three in the afternoon he entered a secret

after plans to film Pete Dexter’s thriller The Paperboy came to nothing, he toyed

and flamboyant world that would have shocked his drab, grey workmates.

with the idea of casting Meryl Streep in what became 2016’s Julieta. The funny

Earlier in the decade, the country’s ruler-dictator General Franco approved a

thing is, the director’s English is actually pretty good. “I can understand and I can

thaw in relations with foreign countries, ostensibly to encourage tourism. Instead,

be understood,” he said, “but once I’m talking about my own movies—I don’t

it opened a whole generation’s eyes to the power of pop culture—notably the

know why—I have to return to my own language.” ★

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D E A D L I N E .C O M / AWA R D S L I N E

I

n the seven episodes of his Showtime series Who is America? Sacha Baron Cohen played a series of characters thrown into meeting real people, and served up some of the year’s finest laughs, even as he charged into dealing with chilling alt-right subjects who were all too quick to demonstrate their racism, homo-

phobia, anti-Semitism and stupidity. The show captured all that is wrong in this polarized country.

In the course of the series, he duped Dick Cheney, Roy Moore, Sarah Palin and O.J. Simpson with his larger-than-life characters. And for his efforts, he was Golden Globe nominated and is hotly tipped to appear on Emmy’s list for Best Comedy Actor, and the show for Outstanding Variety Sketch Series.

Donald Trump’s election victory prompted you to make Who Is America? but he’s been Telflon Don; why does nothing stick to him?

The caveat here is, you’re talking to a comedian and these are just my observations. One of the most impressive things he does politically is he’s able to take away the power of these accusations against him and turn them into weapons against his enemies. The idea of the term ‘fake news’; another politician would probably try and avoid it if they were guilty of spreading fake news and misinformation. He takes the accusation—including multiple accusations of sexual impropriety— makes it his own and then turns it into propaganda against his adversaries, and somehow he appears more morally virtuous as a result.

SACHA BARON COHEN Flinging himself into dangerous waters on Showtime series Who Is America?

BY MIKE FLEMING JR.

D E A D L I N E .C O M / AWA R D S L I N E

45

Is he smarter than we give him credit for?

whole load of stipulations that added layers to the

This guy just grabs onto the cage and does a flip

I do think he is a monster of social media, and he

performances we were relying on. My lawyer said

and lands in the ring. He’s 6’8”, a trained ultimate

knows basic propaganda talk of repeating a lie again

there are 17 things you cannot do in the state of

fighter. I realize he’s going to hurt me quite badly.

and again, so that the more often you repeat the lie

Arkansas. One is, if you cross the state line and incite

the more likely it’s going to be believed.

a riot, that’s a federal offense. It was what the Chi-

My co-writer, Ant Hines, comes into this tunnel that

cago Seven were brought up for. I said, “Well, that’s

we’d built and he says, “Get back in there! Finish the

that he had no chance. He’s still in power. He has

problematic because I’m trying to incite a riot.” He

scene.” I said, I think I’ll have to go to the hospital if I

still got a good chance of winning the next election

said, “Whatever you do, make sure you don’t.”

do. Also at this point, they were throwing chairs into

He won the election despite everyone thinking

despite the dubious activity, and while he might not

So we did the scene. I’m in character for

Luckily we’d built a trapdoor, and I ran out of it.

the ring.

have committed treason, he’s certainly got enough

three hours, the host of this ultimate fighting

I said to a security guard, “Go, take a look. If

there for impeachment proceedings to begin.

championship, and I’ve got to convince 3,000

you think I can go in there and not come out on a

people it’s real. Not only that, I knew I would have

stretcher, I’ll do it. I’ll finish the scene and I’ll kiss my

What does the kind of comedy in Who Is

to convince everyone that the fight scene was real

boyfriend, and I’ll deal with a few blows.” He pokes

America?, where nobody else in the scene knows

as well, even though we were faking it. These are

his head in and says, “Get out of here,” and we run

it’s a comedy, give you that traditional scripted

ultimate fight fans.

out and get in the car and drive.

roles don’t?

The idea was we’re going traditional rom-com;

We had to do the scene over, and rather than

The exhilaration of having a scene go well in the real

we’re going to make out. Not like what happens

stay in Texarkana, that night we drove through Little

world is unmatched. Like, coming out of the cage

at the baseball game and everyone cheers. We’re

Rock, Arkansas. We did the cage fight again, but

fight at the end of Bruno, the feeling of… well, at first

going to make out at a UFC event and everyone’s

rewrote the scene and made my boyfriend attack

“I WAS VERY PLEASED WITH THE DICK CHENEY INTERVIEW. HE RARELY GIVES INTERVIEWS, AND WE GOT TO SEE HIM PROUD OF HIS HEINOUS ACTS; AN INTERESTING THING TO SHOW TO THE PUBLIC. THIS IS A MAN WHO SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF STARTING ONE WAR, IN PARTICULAR, THAT LED TO HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF CIVILIANS KILLED FOR NO REASON, AND HE WAS STILL PROUD OF IT. HE SHOULD HAVE BEEN ASHAMED THAT TORTURE WAS USED, BUT NO, HE WAS READY TO SIGN A WATERBOARDING KIT.” the feeling is relief that you have survived and didn’t end up in the hospital.

going to go crazy.

me from behind. Since he was playing dirty, the

It was interesting to see how the writing of a

crowd was on my side. That made a big difference.

scene can affect performance. We had written the

They were happy for me to defend myself and beat

That’s the scene where, as the gay fashion figure

scene wrong. My boyfriend comes in the ring, I fight

him up.

Bruno, you are in that MMA ring, brawling with

him, and the crowd started booing me. He was a

and then making out with your boyfriend as

guy with glasses, he looked weak, and they felt I was

Performances don’t work unless the writing is

chairs fly into the ring, flung by the angry crowd.

a bully, picking on somebody weaker than me. I beat

correct. We had 3,000 people instinctively knowing

That was one of the most difficult scenes that I’ve

him up, he’s bleeding.

that the scene was wrong.

ever had to do. We shot it in a place called Texar-

It shows you how important the subtleties are.

So they’re booing, and then I got too into

kana, on the border of Texas and Arkansas. Its only

character. I forgot about the lawyer and I challenged

Any scenes in Who is America? that rose to that

claim to fame is that an African-American man was

everyone. I said, “Come on! Any of you fuckers

level of physical danger?

dragged through the town from the back of a truck.

want to come in here, I’ll beat the shit out of you.”

Yes, definitely a few times. There was this scene

We organized this cage fight and I’d been assured

Knowing no one could come into the ring.

where I’m pitching a mega mosque.

by security that no one could get into the cage.

What could go wrong?

This was the one in Kingman, Arizona, where

them were ex-felons. We were short of people. We

At that point, I see this huge guy stand up in the

your character called a town meeting of locals

had a parole officer working for us who said, “You

audience and start towards the cage. I’m thinking,

to sell them on the construction of the world’s

need 300 people? I’ll get them.” Guys turned up

There’s no way he can get in, security is here. And

largest mosque outside the Middle East, built

with swastikas tattooed on their foreheads. We’d

then I look around and there’s no security. At the

onto the local Safeway store.

brought in 10 security guards for that night.

end of the arena, another fight had broken out

We knew that people would get angry because

among some of the convicts, and security is there.

the level of Islamophobia is so extreme, and I was

We had 3,000 people there and quite a lot of

Also, I was also told by my lawyer there were a

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D E A D L I N E .C O M / AWA R D S L I N E

provoking them. So the challenge was, how do you

mirror and I had three ears. My prosthetic ear was

money. So a yacht salesman is willing to sit in a

stop these people, who are used to carrying guns,

horizontal. Somehow the person I was interviewing

room while Gio is being fellated because he wants

from pulling out a gun?

had not noticed I had three ears. I corrected it and

to make the sale of a yacht to President Assad, and

went back in.

he doesn’t flinch about sex trafficking.

he said, “Don’t worry, I’ve built this bulletproof

How could you get away with that?

networks that allow powerful, immoral people to

clipboard for you.” It was the size of a clipboard. I

He was this intelligent guy who argued to the

operate. Harvey Weinstein must have relied on

said, “What am I meant to do with it?” He goes,

Supreme Court and ensured that campaign financ-

the network around him to achieve his ends, and

“Well, if somebody pulls out a gun, just put it in front

ing had no financial limits. Intelligent guy. But for 10

these people that I was interviewing were that

of yourself."

minutes he’s looking at a man with three ears. What

network, who will do anything for money, really.

We had a security guard who was an ex-special ops guy, supposedly—according to him—and

The challenge is, you don’t know who’s got a

What I wanted to look at there was these

happens is, if you’re engaging the person and you’re

My question was, how far would they go? Would

weapon on them. We tried to take away as many

consistent and fully immersed in the character, if

somebody build a yacht if they knew it was for a

guns as we could. We had a metal detector, but it’s

there are small changes that are happening to the

man who slaughtered more Arabs than anyone

a difficult thing in some areas of the country to take

person’s appearance, like his ear is falling off, you

else in history, who was going to use the yacht to

away a man’s gun. They feel it’s a very important

don’t really notice it.

transport sex slaves, who had weapons aboard

thing for them to keep, and actually at the end of

So I’m with Vice President Cheney, and he was

the yacht that were specifically designed to kill as

the scene, one of the men said, “Now I know why

obviously suspicious. He wanted to make sure

many refugees as possible, and who would sit in

you took our weapons away from us.” When I asked

that it wasn’t a setup, and so he grilled me for 30

front of a guy and be so disrespectful that he was

why, he says, “Because we would’ve used them.”

minutes before the interview. He said, “I want to

getting blown in the middle of the meeting? How greedy would he be?

Dick Cheney signs a waterboarding kit, left, and with Sacha Baron Cohen's Eran Morrad character, right

It’s an interesting moment, greed and what people will do for money, and I think that’s part of the reason that you have this revulsion with what is called the elites. We see this increasingly stratified society where you have a huge divergence in what people can afford. You have people who are amazingly poor, and increasingly a small group of people who have an amazing concentration of wealth.

What about the diehard Trump supporters your Israeli commando character duped into fellating and sodomizing a Trump doll, or willingly pressing a button they believe will murder a participant in the Women’s March?

My instinct is there’s a fear and deference to authority with that Erran Morad [Israeli commando] character. I asked my cousin, a professor of psychology at Cambridge, who didn’t have a conclusive answer, but helped me understand and better write the guns piece so it’d be possibly plausible that a

You see Saturday Night Live skits all the time

know everything about your military career,” and so

three-year-old might be a better terrorist killer than

where the prosthetic ear or mustache falls

I had to make sure that all of that was completely

a trained soldier.

off. How did you manage to get through three

consistent and believable for somebody with great

hours with as skeptical a person as former Vice

knowledge of Israel’s military campaign.

President Dick Cheney, who didn’t blink even

The Women’s March was the most extreme thing, when a man readily murders three liberals,

I was very pleased with the Dick Cheney inter-

and you go, “How?” The core is the fear spread by

when your Israeli commando character asked

view. He rarely gives interviews, and we got to see

those who are opposing the alt-right, or as they’re

him to autograph a waterboarding kit?

him proud of his heinous acts; an interesting thing

called Antifa, or the antifascists, which somehow

He was the Vice President. He’s a shrewd, smart

to show to the public. This is a man who should be

that term is suddenly seen as a negative thing. Like

guy. The other challenge is, it’s not just creating a

ashamed of starting one war, in particular, that led

being an antifascist is an insult now.

persona, you are wearing a silicone head. Anyone

to hundreds of thousands of civilians killed for no

meeting somebody wearing a silicone head is

reason, and he was still proud of it. There’s no regret

group. And he’s relying on misinformation—fake

instinctively suspicious. Something’s wrong. They

or remorse. I told him that there were statues of

news, whatever you want to call it—spread by the

don’t know what’s wrong. It looks good, but you look

him up in Iraq and he believed it. He should’ve been

President of America, because you’ve grown up

different, so instinctively everyone knows some-

ashamed that torture was used, but no, he was

with a deference for the political system here, and

thing’s off.

ready to sign a waterboarding kit.

when the President says something, you’re likely to

Occasionally you have to convince people even

This guy believes that Antifa are a dangerous

believe it. If you believe that Antifa are a dangerous

when the prosthetics are slightly falling to pieces.

Is it greed or hubris that makes them vulnerable

and potentially a terrorist group, reinforced by the

I did one scene where we shot in a very stuffy hot

to being caught out?

President’s comments and conspiracy theories

room and about two hours into the scene, the

It varies, and each character relies on a different

being spread online, then it is actually a logical

cameraman told me to go outside. I go, "What’s

trait. Gio, the billionaire, relies on the greed of the

step to say, “To protect my country I’m going to do

the matter?" And he says, “Your ear.” I look in the

subjects, that they are willing to do anything for

whatever it takes, even if it means killing them.” ★ D E A D L I N E .C O M / AWA R D S L I N E

47

M

indy Kaling was just 24 when she became both the first woman and the first person of color to join the writing staff of The Office. 14 years

later, this January, her production company Kaling International sold the film she wrote, Late Night, in a record deal with Amazon at Sundance. She also just had her newest film project snapped up at auction by Universal, inked an overall deal with Warner Bros. TV, and has a 10-episode order from Netflix for her new show. All this aside from extensive acting achievements and two New York Times bestselling memoirs.

Not only has Kaling proven that getting a seat at that first table is what a talented creative needs and deserves, but her work has powerfully referenced the underserved IndianAmerican experience, in shows like The Mindy Project, NBC’s Champions, and now in these upcoming films, one of which tells the story

MINDY KALING With her powerhouse production company and upcoming films and TV shows, The Office alum is driving a world of diversity into comedy

BY ANTONIA BLYTH 48

D E A D L I N E .C O M / AWA R D S L I N E

of a diversity hire (played by Kaling) in the writers’ room of a leading TV show—inspired by her own experience on The Office.

Always an unstoppable, disruptive, creative force, Kaling is nonetheless straightforward about what it felt like to be a diversity hire in those “terrifying” early Office days. “It used to really embarrass me because I thought I had the scarlet letter on me,” she recalls. “‘Diversity hire’ inherently meant, ‘less talented but fulfilling that quota.’” She keenly recalls how it felt to not have those connections, and to wince whenever the subject came up. And this is the subject—with a hilarious comedic bent, of course–of Late Night.

The world of comedy, Kaling came to understand, is far from meritocratic. She had once thought, “If you’re funny, it’s funny and you’ll get noticed. But that isn’t true,” she says.

“If you don’t know the right people to get into the rooms, you will just never be seen. I love talking about it in the movie because it’s really

“I REALIZED THAT THE ONLY WAY THAT PEOPLE WILL HAVE THESE KINDS OF OPPORTUNITIES—THERE’S LITERALLY BEEN SO LITTLE CHANGE FOR WOMEN OF COLOR—IS IF PEOPLE LIKE ME MAKE A DIFFERENCE. WE HAVE TO BE THE ONES TO OPEN THE DOORS FOR OTHER PEOPLE.” real, and the stigma’s really real, and it truly is a

a lot when I was younger because I was the first

semi-autobiographical show, focusing on her own

helpful thing. It helped me personally.”

Indian-American woman to have my own show in

childhood. Plus, she has Hulu’s Four Weddings and

the States, and I was the first woman of color to get

a Funeral series—a project that resonated because

nominated for an Emmy in writing.”

of both her love of Richard Curtis’s original “perfect

Her pride now in having been a part of NBC’s diversity writing program is utterly unmitigated.

“I really admire NBC for doing that program,” she

Along with those firsts came an expectation for

movie” from her youth, and the new incarnation

insists. “I think if more people like me who are

her to be better than everyone, she says, “including

of its story. “I just think there’s so many great,

successful after coming through something like that

white male writers who’ve been doing this for 20,

underrepresented people in London that the

talk about how the experience helped them, then

even 30 years longer than me. When I was younger

movie—which is so amazing—didn’t necessarily

there will be less of a stigma to it.”

that used to frustrate me; I would not be held up to

have the opportunity to show the stories of,” she

the same scrutiny as some of these other people

says. “Doing an adaptation of that through the lens

woman who has previously referenced her own long

who frankly had more resources than me to make a

of a British-Pakistani man falling in love with an

struggle for directing opportunities, and co-star

bigger difference.”

African-American woman felt interesting to me, and

Kaling hired Nisha Ganatra to direct Late Night, a

Emma Thompson, who might otherwise have

Now, Kaling sees that earlier frustration as “kind

different enough from the source material, and it

been overlooked in the comedy film realm. “I’ve

of an immaturity” on her part. “Especially during

felt like I could be creative, but also pay homage to

been amazed at the number of roles that are being

these new shows, I realized that the only way that

what was so great about the movie.”

created in TV—much more than film—for women

people will have these kinds of opportunities—

over the age of 45-50 years old,” Kaling says. “The

there’s literally been so little change for women of

space and opportunity so effectively is because she

problem is that they’re largely in drama. So if you are

color—is if people like me make a difference. So it’s

never strays into didactic territory in her storytelling.

an actress and you can play a widow, or your son

just the fact of the matter. We have to be the ones

“No one wants to buy a ticket to a movie because

died in a war, there are these very wordy juicy parts

to open the doors for other people.”

they think someone woke is going to preach at

in drama, but for comedy it’s like, ‘Good luck.’”

Thompson is a vastly underused comedic

And she has her eyes open to “making sure that

Perhaps part of the reason Kaling has carved out

them,” she says. “I don’t. Politically I probably fall in

every project I have is lifting other people up who

line with a lot of people where I’m worried about

actor, Kaling believes. “Her comedy is like you

look like me, who don’t have back-up. That’s my

the world that we are living in right now, but at

could time it to a metronome; it’s just so quick

responsibility. I became used to the fact that there

the same time I don’t necessarily want to go get

and so funny. It’s those kinds of roles I don’t get

will never be the same scrutiny on successful white

lectured when I turn on a TV show. While I think that

to see women perform. I just wanted to see her

male showrunners, there just will never. They will

my movie, and a lot of the things that I write about,

in a role like that, so I felt like I just would have to

never be on a panel where they are asked those

have a lot of political elements to them, I want to

write it if I wanted to see it.”

same questions, and I’m kind of OK with it now.”

do something that can be enjoyed by everybody.

But diversity hiring and storytelling is not a token

Kaling’s newest film, the as yet untitled story of

I don’t want to make niche shows for only certain

gesture in Kaling’s work. Rather, it’s an integral part

an Indian wedding, will be co-produced by Priyanka

of her authentic creative process. “It’s nice to hire

Chopra’s Purple Pebble Pictures. Both women

people and create opportunities for people whose

will also star. Will Kaling add the title of director to

“superstitious feeling” about resting on any laurels.

mere existence is aligned with my politics,” she says,

her own slate? “Honestly, there’s such a dearth of

“I think luxuriating and thinking that you feel suc-

“but when I wrote it I wrote it because I just wanted

minority directors, particularly women of color,”

cessful feels like a little bit of hubris. And in comedy,

to tell a funny, true story.”

she says. “I feel like morally it might be a good thing

the minute a character starts thinking they’re

to do, but I know that I can’t make the decision to

celebrated is the minute when something terrible

ity she enthusiastically embraces, even though

direct something from a moral political viewpoint. I

happens to them.” ★

such pressures aren’t placed as heavily on the

need to decide that I really want to tell that story.”

shoulders of, say, a white man in a position of power.

So instead of deciding now, Kaling will write first,

“I think there is a different standard for me as a

choose later, she says. “It’s just very exciting to

show creator, as someone to provide employment,

me, but also most of this movie is set in India so it

than there is for someone in a lot of these other

would be very daunting for my first feature to be

TV shows that you see with predominantly white

set mostly in another country. That’s a little scary

casts and with white writing staff,” she says. “They

to me too.”

Holding open the door for others is a responsibil-

don’t get the scrutiny, and it used to frustrate me

groups of people.”

Even now, despite all of her success, Kaling has a

D I S R U P T O R S

Also in the pipeline is Kaling’s new Netflix D E A D L I N E .C O M / AWA R D S L I N E

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NEW FESTIVAL TASTEMAKERS THE

The winds of change are sweeping through film festivals, and these three newly-appointed women executives are leading the charge

BY ANDREAS WISEMAN THE CANNES COMPETITION LINEUP of 50 years ago was an extraordinary one; a who’s who of iconic filmmakers. Among the 26

D I S R U P T O R S

competing for the Palme d’Or were Sidney Lumet, Louis Malle, Andrzej Wajda, Pierre Étaix, Lindsay Anderson, Volker Schlöndorff, Costa-Gavras, Éric Rohmer, Glauber Rocha, Ronald Neame and Dennis Hopper.

While it wouldn’t have seemed unusual at the time, today the maleness of that lineup really stands out. Festival selections hold a mirror up to those who select them as well as the society and culture within which they exist.

50 years on, a zero count of women filmmakers in Competition has haltingly increased to four—a joint-record for the festival, which has still only once awarded its main prize to a woman. Just 86 women directors have played in Competition compared to more than 1,600 men. And it’s not only in Competition that Cannes struggles. Of 24 films in Directors’ Fortnight this year, only four are by women.

The festival has promised to do better in regard to gender diversity one year after jury president Cate Blanchett led women in a Palais red carpet protest over the issue. Like many festivals, urged by the #MeToo and Times Up movements, Cannes signed a gender diversity pledge promising improvement.

If we’re looking for obvious gains in this area, we might want to look toward the evolving ranks of festival programmers and artistic directors, which have traditionally been the preserve of older white men. In the past 12 months, women have been appointed to leading roles at festivals including Berlin, Sundance, Toronto, Locarno and London. Longtime festival chiefs have simultaneously stepped aside or are nearing the end of their mandates.

We spoke to three of the new generation of festival leaders—Lili Hinstin, who was appointed Locarno artistic director last August; Kim Yutani, who was promoted to Sundance director of programming one year ago; and Diana Sanchez, appointed Toronto’s senior director of film this year—about the current climate among film festival selectors and the shifting context within which top programmers choose movies today.

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From top: Lili Hinstin on stage at Locarno, Kim Yutani at Sundance, and Diana Sanchez at TIFF.

LILI HINSTIN

ARTISTIC DIRECTOR LOCARNO FILM FESTIVAL

Has there been significant evolution within the makeup of film festival teams?

I do think there have been significant changes. First and foremost, it’s a matter of generational change. The new artistic directors and programmers coming in are younger. It’s important for festivals. I think those hiring us felt a new energy.

What can festivals do to improve their diversity?

I think it’s a matter of culture. I don’t think it’s a matter of quotas. I wouldn’t like to have a quota of 50/50 male and female directors.

I’m looking for strong directorial propositions. That said, I think my background means I’m more aware of certain other backgrounds.

I decided to have a 50/50 male-female split on my programming team because I want to have different points of view and knowledge. I want programmers with an open mind.

I’m in charge of our retrospective in Locarno this year, Black Lights, which will explore black cinema through the decades.

For me it’s about highlighting the aesthetic representation of political issues rather than making a voluntary militant action as a programmer. It’s about examining how political issues are influencing aesthetic representation rather than privileging the topic itself or the origins of a director.

I’ve heard some artistic directors say they don’t want to know the gender of directors. What do you make of that approach to programming?

It’s not the point at all. You can feel the way a director is related to the world and to gender and representation. We know the gender of submissions. But we could also not know it. I like the utopian side of this idea. It’s like the idea that films should be released without the directors’ name so the film is judged purely on its own merits. Or it’s like sending a script for funding without the name of the director.

How can programming better reflect the society we live in?

I think improvement needs to come at the production stage.

Women need to struggle and fight for bigger budgets. Money is a key point. When women are paid as much as men, the perception will change around women accessing positions of authority, and our own representation of that possibility. It’s a question of mentality. If women are able to see women in positions of authority, they will

1940s. There’s a long way to go but there are improvements. I have the same pay

think they too can achieve such a position. This will also change how men view

as my predecessor in Locarno but this isn’t the norm. Most women in the world

women. This is moving fast. Women in France were only given the vote in the

are paid significantly less than their male counterparts.

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KIM YUTANI

DIRECTOR OF PROGRAMMING SUNDANCE FILM FESTIVAL

Things are changing at the major film festivals, whose programming and executive ranks have previously skewed male, older and white. Do you sense a spirit of renewal?

I do sense a spirit of renewal, and I think a large part of that is due to how we’re interrogating who gets to make choices, and who might have historically been excluded from that process. With so much transition occurring in our industry in general, movement within the festival circuit reflects that larger change and creates the opportunity for us to explore new ideas of who gets to decide how culture is represented.

This year’s Sundance showcased a number of buzzed-about movies by women directors that sold in big deals. What are the keys to finding these movies and ensuring this becomes the new status quo?

Our programmers are intentional and proactive in how they review submissions. When we program, we talk about everything—work that we’ve been tracking, as well as over-the-transom discoveries that we wanted to showcase. We approach curation with respect for each other but also have in mind what kind of program we want to put together for the best festival possible. The fact that so many films—including films made by women—sold in big deals was fantastic, but not our primary goal in programming. We want to support artists who might not otherwise have the opportunity to share their work, and connect audiences with different perspectives and work they might not otherwise see.

What can festivals do to improve the diversity in their lineups and in their programming ranks?

As programmers we have to approach each project with open

Have we moved beyond the debate about quotas? Should

minds and be prepared to receive the unexpected. By having a

there be more collaboration between festivals?

diverse cohort of programmers, festivals can ensure decisions

I think the needed collaboration and debate goes beyond festivals—

are made by a broader cross section of points of view. If we bring

it’s an industry-wide issue we need to address. We can’t program

together different expertises, backgrounds and curatorial sensibili-

the work if it’s not getting made. By welcoming bold works from a

ties to the table, then we have a great opportunity to create a really

wide range of voices and visions, by celebrating them and lifting

meaningful and provocative program that can have huge impact on

them up, by programming them at festivals, we can encourage more

the culture.

filmmaking by more people.

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NEW FESTIVAL TASTEMAKERS THE

DIANA SANCHEZ SENIOR DIRECTOR, FILM TORONTO INTERNATIONAL FILM FESTIVAL

Does it follow that the freshest voices will come from the most underserved sections of society?

In the uncertain times that we are living in, fresh voices will come from anywhere and everywhere. Of course, in countries where there are little financial resources for filmmaking, filmmakers are finding ways to continue to make new films. One of my colleagues at TIFF was just telling me about the Wakaliwood phenomenon in Uganda where they are making films for $350.

Do you think North American festivals are more advanced than European festivals when it comes to diversity in their line-ups?

I do believe that North America’s approach is different than Europe’s.

Our festivals are newer, our society is younger, and we are countries built on pretty recent immigration. Speaking of TIFF, our diverse line-up reflects the diversity of our audience, and Toronto is one of the most diverse cities on earth, so it follows that that would be reflected in the films we show.

Many festival executives say they are happy to have a gender quota for programmers but not for directors in a line-up. Does that make sense to you?

I think striving towards gender parity is a good thing, but it’s never How are the makeup and direction of festival line-ups changing?

going to be the only consideration when programming a film. When I’m

I think that many festivals are thinking more deeply about how we

programming I’m looking for films that are fresh, that explore cinematic

program and about reaching more audiences and representing more

language, and that offer something new and urgent in a cinematic way.

people on the screen. At TIFF, we’re responding to the continually chang-

I just recently finished a festival in Panama where I was artistic director

ing landscape of film and film production, moving from a regional model

for eight years. When we were done, we realized that over 50% of the

to a sections model of programming the festival. There are so many

films in our Ibero-American program were directed or co-directed by a

co-productions, so many filmmakers making films in different countries

woman. It happened naturally. Maybe having more female programmers

that we’re trying to think of films in a broader sense.

will mean that we’ll broaden sensibilities. ★

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O

ne day last summer, James Gunn was busy writing the third installment of Marvel’s blockbuster Guardians of the Galaxy franchise

until, suddenly, he wasn't. Disney had fired him and his entire career was upended.

The corporation pulled the plug after being presented with a volley of joke tweets Gunn wrote that made light of pedophilia and rape. The tweets were vile, and the optics terrible. It didn’t matter that they were tweeted a decade ago. That he’d previously apologized. Or, that he was the target of a takedown campaign by alt-right journalists after his anti-Trump missives.

Disney was prompted to act, and Gunn’s career was endangered.

But now, the studio has changed course and reinstated him. Having previously written and directed two hit Marvel films that globally grossed over $1.6 billion, he will now helm Guardians 3 after he finishes Suicide Squad 2.

The formerly outspoken filmmaker helped his cause somewhat by not blaming anyone but himself. Now, for the first time since surviving the attempted takedown, Gunn breaks his silence on the lessons he learned.

How did you feel when Disney’s Alan Horn invited you back for Guardians of the Galaxy 3?

I was about to sit down and talk about Suicide Squad with DC and I was excited about that. Alan asked me to come talk to him. I really believe he is a good man and I think he hired me back because he thought that was the right thing to do. I’ve known him a little, going back to the Scooby-Doo movies. I’ve always liked and admired him. I was touched by his compassion.

After a very public Disney firing, the writer-director leaned into the subsequent

industry, but there’s also a lot of really good

career crisis to learn lessons about how to be better

people. I’m always attracted to finding that

BY MIKE FLEMING JR.

in the characters in my movies. I got a little

JAMES GUNN 54

You hear in Hollywood that everybody’s cutthroat. That’s true of a section of this

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goodness in places we don’t expect, often bit teary-eyed in his office. And then I had to go tell Kevin Feige I had just decided to do Suicide Squad, so that made me very nervous.

Neither Horn nor Feige ever met with another director, but your exit was so emphatic. Had you come to grips with losing the franchise you’d brought to the screen?

Yes. I was writing Suicide Squad and thought of Guardians 3 as being long gone.

I guess it was a possibility for a while, but the initial

that feeling of being loved so deeply. It has been

conversations with Alan weren’t, “Let’s figure out if I

a problem for me in relationships, in friendships; I

should come back.” It was, “Let’s talk about this.” It

can experience loving another person but I have a

to have you.” They called within the first two days.

was like the break-up of my marriage. I got divorced,

very difficult time experiencing being loved. In that

But I didn’t believe it. That’s the thing that I have

and then had those conversations with my ex-wife:

moment, the apparatus which was my only hope for

to be honest about. On some theoretical level, I

“Let’s get along as well as we possibly can and be

feeling love was torn away from me and I had abso-

was like, “Well, maybe I do have a future.” I’m a

kind to each other because we’re both a large part

lutely nothing. I didn’t know what I was supposed to

fairly logic-oriented person and that helped, but

of each other’s lives.”

do. Should I be locked away?

emotionally, there was not a whole lot there to hold

But I would hate to look back on the six years

And then came this outpouring of real love. From

negative stuff right now, it just hurts me.”

The studios, for the most part, said, “We’d love

onto. That was good for me, too, because what I

that my wife and I were together and think, Oh,

my girlfriend Jen; my producer and my agents; Chris

needed to do was stop making my career be what

what a waste of time. Instead, I think it was a time

Pratt calling me and freaking out; Zoe Saldana and

makes me worthwhile and start making me just

when I really grew a lot and we were really good to

Karen Gillan, all calling and crying. Sylvester Stallone

be OK as myself. That is what I concentrated on. I

each other. There were some problems, and we

FaceTime-ing me. And, of course, Dave Bautista,

concentrated on the fun.

just weren’t supposed to be married, but it was well

who came out so strong. That amount of love that

worth living that six years with my ex.

I felt from my friends, my family, and the people in

started flowing. I don’t think I’ve had as much fun

the community was absolutely overwhelming. In

writing a script since maybe Dawn of the Dead.

want to look back and feel bitter, upset or angry. Of

order for me to have fully felt that love for the first

That’s what this whole movie has been like.

course all sorts of emotions are attached to it. But I

time, the thing that needed to happen was the

just wanted to be comfortable saying goodbye and

apparatus by which I was feeling falsely loved had to

Given another lease on life with Guardians, what

splitting up, and that’s where my head was at, even

be completely taken away.

characters or themes are you most excited to

I wanted to feel that way about Disney. I didn’t

in the very early meeting we had, a week or two weeks after it all happened.

For a filmmaker with a reputation for being outspoken on social media, your public response

So a part of that day was the worst of my life,

The Suicide Squad sequel, it just instantly

see through in the third film?

and a part of it was the greatest day of my life. I cer-

When you asked me what was saddest for me

tainly haven’t been perfect in my spiritual journeys

when I thought it was gone—and anybody at

since that time, but I have been better.

Marvel can tell you—it’s this very strange and

That first couple weeks, I completely stayed off

attached relationship to Rocket. Rocket is me, he

to the firing was muted. You didn’t blame

social media. I just completely disconnected from

really is, even if that sounds narcissistic. Groot is

anyone but yourself, which clearly factored into

all of that. It was hard as hell and I was really living

like my dog. I love Groot in a completely different

Horn’s decision to reinstate you. What was going

minute-to-minute, but it was also rewarding, in

way. I relate to Rocket and I feel compassion for

through your head at that time?

being able to see life from a different perspective.

Rocket, but I also feel like his story has not been

I don’t blame anyone. I feel and have felt bad for

completed. He has an arc that started in the

a while about some of the ways I spoke publicly;

What about the part of you that realizes: I did

first movie, continued into the second and goes

some of the jokes I made, some of the targets of my

this to myself; this injury is self-inflicted?

through Infinity War and Endgame, and then I was

humor, just the unintentional consequences of not

The truth is I had a lot of anger at myself and I really

set to really finish that arc in Guardians 3. That

being more compassionate in what I’m putting out

had to try to put that aside. Because in the same

was a big loss to me—not being able to finish that

there. I know that people have been hurt by things

way where I know what I’ve done wrong, I know that

story—though I was comforted by the fact that

that I’ve said, and that’s still my responsibility, that

I’ve done a lot of wrong things in my life, things that

they were still planning to use my script.

I wasn’t as compassionate as I should be in what

led to this moment. I had to realize what I needed to

I say. I feel bad for that and take full responsibility.

do differently in my life. That was a part of all of this.

Disney totally had the right to fire me. This wasn’t a

But in the same way I needed to not be lashing

How devastated were you that Rocket didn’t sweep the Oscars for his directorial debut A Star

free speech issue. I said something they didn’t like

out at whoever fired me, or whoever spread links

is Born?

and they completely had the right to fire me. There

online, or cut up pictures to look like this or that,

I loved that movie. I saw Bradley Cooper recently.

was never any argument of that.

I also had to let go of some of that rage towards

I said, “I remember when you were showing me

myself as well. Otherwise I just wasn’t going to be

videos of Lady Gaga singing,” when he was first

able to make it through.

prepping the movie. You go, OK, here’s this actor

That first day… I’m going to say it was the most intense of my entire life. There have been other difficult days in my life, from the time I got sober

who’s going to go direct this movie with Lady Gaga…

when I was younger, to the death of friends who

You landed Suicide Squad 2 right after settling

I was excited for Bradley, but nervous. I’ve had a lot

committed suicide. But this was incredibly intense.

out with Disney. How did the reaction of rival

of friends who’ve directed movies and nine times

It happened, and suddenly it seemed like everything

studios allay fears you were now too ‘hot button’

out of 10 it does not go that well. What an incredible

was gone. I just knew, in a moment that happened

to get another job?

accomplishment that was for a first-time director.

incredibly quickly, I had been fired. It felt as if my

Technically my fears were allayed immediately;

career was over.

Jason Blum was doing a [San Diego Comic-Con]

From one who has come out the other side, what

panel when the announcement happened and he

do you make of the current industry climate, in

said, “I’d hire James Gunn right now.”

which behaviors are being exposed and people

I think the one thing that is the most important for me from that day is this: I’m like a lot of people who come out here and want to be rich and famous,

At the same time, I didn’t know what I believed.

often banished?

to have people love them. I am an artist first and

The news that I was hired back, it was a big story for

There’s a lot of really positive stuff that’s coming out

foremost; I love telling stories, I love interacting with

a day and then it’s done. When all this happened,

of all of this, and one of those positives is I was able

my characters, I love designing sets. But I’m also a

it went for days and days and days. As much as I

to learn. People have to be able to learn from mis-

guy who found what I thought was love, through

wasn’t reading the news, I was feeling the shrapnel

takes. If we take away the possibility for someone

people loving me, and through my work.

constantly through all of the texts and calls from my

to learn and become a better person, I’m not sure

friends and family who were so upset at this or that.

what we are left with. I’ve learned all kinds of things

I finally had to be like, “Guys, I can’t focus on all the

about myself through this process. ★

My apparatus for being loved was my work, and being famous. I had never really experienced before

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He brought surreal New Zealand humor into the mainstream, and the Thor: Ragnarok master continues to plough his own furrow

BY JOE UTICHI

TAIKA WAITITI

HAIL TO THE CHIEF Taika Waititi (seated) presides over his domain on the set of Thor: Ragnarok, in conversation with (from left) Tom Hiddleston, Chris Hemsworth and Jeff Goldblum.

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ithout disruption, we’re doomed to repeat ourselves,” says Taika Waititi. He applies the label to his own sense of adventure in filmmaking, insisting that he must disrupt his own comfort in order

to push himself as a director. “When something feels like an obvious choice, it feels a little too easy, and I need to disrupt it and be a bit more chaotic.”

But it’s the quiet kind of disruption with which Waititi has upended Hollywood that has earned him a place among our 2019 class of Disruptors. Few could have imagined, as his body of work built through Eagle vs. Shark, Boy, What We Do in the Shadows, and The Hunt for the Wilderpeople, that the brand of odd New Zealand humor practiced by him and his regular collaborators, including Jemaine Clement and Rachel House, would be so warmly and universally embraced that it would lead him to the set of a Marvel movie.

Many directors have passed through the Marvel Cinematic Universe now, 22 films into what has proven to be an unbeatable run, and each has left their own mark on the big-screen adaptations of comic book heroes that have dominated multiplex screens for the past decade. But 2017’s

D I S R U P T O R S

Thor: Ragnarok was different. It was a Taika Waititi film that happened to exist in the MCU; a fan favorite Marvel movie that was simultaneously just as appetizing for people who don’t like Marvel movies.

It did not, though, mark a transition to blockbuster cinema from which Waititi would never return. It wasn’t the end of his particular yellow brick road. Instead, with Ragnarok on release, he pivoted back to one of his own projects, Jojo Rabbit, loosely adapted by Waititi from a Christine Leunens novel.

His mother had tipped him off to the book, Caging Skies, and it sparked something in him that reflected a hallmark of his work to date. Just as Boy was, in Waititi’s description, a “comedy about child neglect”, and The Hunt for the Wilderpeople a hilarious examination of grief and the foster system, so Jojo Rabbit is a moving tale about a little boy in wartime Germany whose steadfast commitment to the Nazi party is thrown into chaos when he discovers his mother is harboring a Jewish girl in their attic. Oh, and his imaginary best friend is a Waititian version of Adolf Hitler.

It shouldn’t be funny, nor heartwarming, and yet, in Waititi’s deft hands, it is very likely to be both. There’s a certain fearlessness to Waititi’s attraction to dark subject matter that makes him such a master disruptor, and his films have worked so well precisely because the darkness is balanced so delicately with heart and humor.

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Commission in the past, it’s just been less risky to

The dots I’m trying to connect are these: how

mooted project of his, an animated film called

stay with what we were known for, and not disrupt

does the man behind Eagle vs. Shark, Boy,

Bubbles, which tracks the Michael Jackson story

that habit.

As he continues to keep an eye on another

What We Do in the Shadows and Hunt for the Wilderpeople wind up on the set of a Marvel

through the eyes of his pet chimpanzee, even as the revelations of Leaving Neverland lead to a

A not uncommon attitude from many

movie, delivering a picture that didn’t feel at all

reexamination of our relationship with the King of

publicly-funded arts bodies.

disconnected from the body of work that came

Pop (Waititi says the project is still hovering if not

Yeah, and I think I got lucky, in that at the point I

before it or the MCU?

imminent), it seems there are very few limits to

came in they probably started recognizing that they

I hadn’t made Hunt for the Wilderpeople at the time,

where Waititi’s curiosity will take him.

needed to change things, otherwise they were in

actually, though it came out first. It wasn’t finished.

danger of perpetually repeating themselves and

I’d done my first three films, and they’d watched

doing all the things that I’m trying not to do.

Shadows and loved that, but if I’d only made that I

He is now one of Hollywood’s hardest working filmmakers, with a slew of projects in development.

Wherever he goes next, Waititi is certain to raise

don’t think it would have been a great indicator of

eyebrows, ruffle feathers and keep us laughing for

What has resulted, with shows like Flight of the

many years to come.

Conchords and your movies, is that the world

what I was capable of.

What actually inspired them to talk to me was

now identifies this particular tone with New

they saw Boy. With these movies, you can have a

When you set out, did you ever think that the

Zealand and its filmmaking.

background in horror or comedy or whatever, and

kind of humor that is your stock in trade could

I think that sense of humor is very definitely New

people assume that’s what they’re looking for, but

one day lead to Hollywood blockbusters?

Zealand. It was a style we developed, and the

what they’re actually looking for is people who know

What I and my friends were doing when we first

Conchords definitely put it on the map.

how to tell a story emotionally, and create charac-

"THAT’S THE OTHER THING YOU’LL FIND ABOUT NEW ZEALAND STUFF, IS THAT WE’RE NOT INAPPROPRIATE OR REALLY PROVOKING. WE DON’T REALLY TEND TO DO THAT. WE’RE NOT INTO SHOCK VALUE; IT’S POLITE COMEDY IS WHAT I’D SAY NEW ZEALAND COMEDY IS. WE DON’T WANT TO INSULT PEOPLE TOO MUCH, WE DON’T WANT TO PUSH IT TOO FAR. WE’RE JUST TOO EMBARRASSED & SHY FOR THAT." started out just felt different for New Zealand, I

It was how we always sort of communicated,

ters that you care about. Directors unafraid of using

think. New Zealand cinema was always consid-

comedy-wise, over the years; for a decade before

ered kind of dark, and we did more dramas than

the HBO show, so that wasn’t unusual to us. But it

anything. It wasn’t like we’re known for this mix of

has been nice to know that the style of comedy of

it’s basically a five-minute joke that we stretched

drama and comedy—tonally what I ended up doing

the mundane is appreciated a bit more now. Even

out for an hour and a half. There are characters

in my films. That wasn’t really usual. But once we

when Conchords first started the show, it took a

you care about, but it’s not really a big, emotional

started doing things like that, I think we just realized

little while for people to figure out that nothing else

journey. It’s definitely the broadest film I’ve done.

that there was an audience for it.

was going to happen, and that was OK.

That tone didn’t feel out of the question in New

emotion in their films.

Shadows certainly doesn’t do that. To be honest,

I think Eagle vs. Shark and Boy are a little closer to what they were interested in. They watched Boy,

Zealand, it was just that I don’t think we’d had much

Were you surprised it worked in America?

and they really loved that, and thought that even if I

of an opportunity to do it, so when we did do it,

Yeah, that took a while. It did take a while for them,

were to come in and deliver a comedy, we’d still be

everyone felt like, “Oh, this is exactly how we are,

and I think there are still people that just don’t get it.

dealing with the characters on a more emotional

and this is our sense of humor, and this is not an

They’re getting better though.

level as well.

unusual way to look at ourselves; nothing weird.”

But then, we didn’t make a lot of movies in New

It’s definitely more in line with British humor. We

And I was really happy that they let me do my

grew up with a lot of British shows, and also a lot

thing. They allowed me to bring a lot of my own

Zealand before. Not many people had been given

of American shows, so our ability to mix those two

ideas and a lot of my style, and I put a lot of myself

the opportunity to go down that road with a feature

kinds of comedy from two countries—as well as

into the treatment of the movie.

film. In the past, we probably only would have made

Southern Australia and other places—I think we’ve

six films a year, on average, so when you’re using

had the best of both worlds. So our comedy is a

Was that hard fought at all?

taxpayers money and you’re trying to make the

mix of all of that stuff, though I do think we tend to

I was able to try just anything, really. They do a great

best films as possible, for the New Zealand Film

gravitate to British comedy more.

job of keeping you in their lane, so you don’t veer

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off too wildly and crash the Marvel bus. And that’s

even sure if it could be construed as a comedy. It’s

Speaking of controversy, you were planning to

good, because you do just keep suggesting stuff. It’s

definitely not a broad comedy.

do an animated film following the exploits of

like you’re a kid and you want to test their boundaries the entire time, waiting to see how long it is

Having said all that, it’s the most original way I feel I would want to look at tackling this subject.

before they put you into time out. They will either tell you to reel it in or to keep going.

Bubbles, Michael Jackson’s chimpanzee. Is that still an active project?

That script has been around for a long time, and it’s

You play his imaginary friend: Hitler.

a little bit stuck in the early stages of trying to figure

Yeah, but he’s not really Hitler. He’s like a 10 year-old

out what it could be and what it would look like. It’s

Is it tricky to balance this almost surreal sense

kid’s version of Hitler. So he doesn’t have to share

a fucking brilliant script, though. It’s so cool to look

of humor with the heart and pathos demanded

anything with actual Hitler, because 10 year-olds

at the idea of telling a story like this through the

by films like Boy and Eagle vs. Shark?

never meet Hitler. He’s basically a 10 year-old who

eyes of a chimpanzee.

Well, coming from New Zealand, we shy away from

happens to have a tiny little mustache.

sentimentality, and anything that feels cheesy

I didn’t have to do any research, and I didn’t do any

But right now I’m finishing two other features—one which I’m looking to do this year—and

or over-earnest. So with any of the emotional

research. I didn’t base him on anything I’d seen about

finishing Jojo, and there are a couple of TV shows

stuff in my movies, it was about trying to do it in a

Hitler before. I just made him a version of myself that

I’m developing. There’s about two or three that I

very non-cheesy way. If you look at Boy, it’s a very

happened to have a bad haircut and a shitty little

mentioned to the press, and they’re way back on

un-American coming-of-age film. It’s more like a

mustache. And a mediocre German accent.

my backburner.

comedy about child neglect. Eagle vs. Shark, too, is

It would just be too weird to play the actual

a very un-American romantic comedy; it’s neither a

Hitler, and I don’t think people would enjoy the

You talked about Bubbles as being a film that

romance nor very funny.

character as much. Because he was such a fucking

you’d develop in between other things.

Left: Taika Waititi flips off the Führer on the set of Jojo Rabbit. Right: A scene from the film, with Jojo (Roman Griffin Davis), imaginary Hitler (Waititi) and Rosie (Scarlett Johansson).

So it’s about trying to do things that feel unique and authentic, even though a lot of these films

c--t, and everyone knows that as well. I think people

Yeah, but I’ve actually had to start pulling out of

have got to relate to really enjoy the ride.

other things, because I was just becoming too

feel a bit over the top. The situations seem more

busy. And so even doing something like that delays

quirky—which is a word I hate—and more fantasti-

Do you have to be aware of crossing lines when

everything else. Even with an animated movie, it

cal in a lot of ways. It still feels authentic to me,

you write a movie like this? Is there a line?

turns out, you have to be pretty present.

because it’s based around how I see the world.

Of course there’s a line. There’s always a line. But for me I think I find it naturally; what would I feel

How much of that workload has

feel very New Zealand, and have a unique style to

embarrassed to show people? Then I wouldn’t put

come off the back of the success of

them that I think sometimes only we understand.

it in. If there’s any time I feel like something is inap-

Thor: Ragnarok, do you think?

propriate I pull back.

A little bit, but my Jojo film came up before

Performances and situations in these movies do

Your next film is Jojo Rabbit. 10-year-old Jojo,

That’s the other thing you’ll find about New Zea-

Thor with Fox Searchlight. A lot of these things

the lead character, is absolutely in love with the

land stuff, is that we’re not inappropriate or really

are in development for years. There have been

Nazi party and a proud member of the Hitler

provoking. We don’t really tend to do that. We’re not

a couple of opportunities, but all these little

Youth. He’s unkind, to begin with, to the Jewish

into shock value; it’s polite comedy is what I’d say

films of mine, they haven’t really come together

girl he finds in the attic. Which is not necessarily

New Zealand comedy is. We don’t want to insult

off the back of Thor. Thor was not the sign to

my first go-to when I think, Here’s a set up for a

people too much, we don’t want to push it too far.

producers that I would be able to make an ani-

hilarious situation.

We’re just too embarrassed and shy for that.

mated film about a chimpanzee. That’s probably

No, it’s not at all, is it? [laughs] And it’s not even a

There’s no way I’d do anything just because it

not the kind of director they’re looking for. Most

super hilarious film; there’s a lot of comedy in it, but

might be controversial and might seem like it’ll get

of the films I’ve got in development have less

again, as with my other films, it’s more of a drama

people talking. We find that kind of shock comedy

to do with Thor and more to do with everything

with a lot of light moments throughout. I’m not

act disingenuous and fake.

else I’ve done. ★ D E A D L I N E .C O M / AWA R D S L I N E

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obody gets with the program like Greg Berlanti, the super-producer of television who currently has a record-setting 14 active shows across the

dial—the previous record had been 10 shows (a mark reached by both Aaron Spelling and Jerry Bruckheimer) which makes the achievement by Berlanti Productions all the more impressive.

The genial 46-year-old native of Rye, New York, who got his start at age 26 when he landed a writing job for Dawson’s Creek in 1998, has established two hallmarks with his unprecedented episodic output: no one has shown a savvier touch when it comes to superhero franchises (he has seven, including Arrow, The Flash, and Supergirl on The CW) and no one has seized the cause of representation with more gusto.

Berlanti-produced shows have piled up a long list of firsts. The first gay superhero to headline a TV series (Freedom Fighters: The Ray), the first transgender recurring character on TV (on Dirty Sexy Money), the first transgender superhero on TV (on Supergirl), the first legal gay marriage on network TV (on Brothers & Sisters), and, ramping up for this fall, the first lesbian superhero to headline a television show (when Ruby Rose dons the mask for a Batwoman pilot for the CW).

Berlanti and his partner, former LA Galaxy soccer player Robbie Roberts, were honored last September with the Los Angeles LGBT Center’s Gala Vanguard Awards and, that same month, the most productive producer in television was also awarded a $300 million pact renewal that will keep him on Warner’s Burbank lot through 2024. Together the two milestones suggest that Berlanti is going up, up, but not away.

GREG BERLANTI

For decades, Hollywood rarely showed much respect or affinity for screen superheroes.

That’s changed in a big way. For feature films, the key factor was arguably the advent of CG effects, but that doesn’t apply nearly as much in episodic television. So why is the superhero sector booming on TV? It has become so much more a part of the modern-day myth and the fabric of our culture that people are now more accepting of genre in general. Genre became mainstream. All the stuff that I did as a kid that was weird and nerdy is now, somehow, mainstream.

And people see that across the board. It

D I S R U P T O R S

The superhero showrunner has more shows on the air than anyone else

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applies to more than superheroes. There was a time where you were a kid in the back of the class reading The Lord of the Rings or playing Dungeons & Dragons on the weekend. And now those things are all part of the culture in a much more mainstream way.

I think at the very beginning, when we wanted to

actors are different but the overlap in audience

and on TV is that they’re going through a second

change the race, gender, or sexuality of characters,

and assets is considerable.

phase and it feels like people are really taking differ-

some of whom were iconic, we always explained

I don’t think it’s any secret that there has been dif-

ent risks with the form. These heightened worlds,

our case to the powers that be; all of the execu-

ferent leadership there within the eight years we’ve

or characters, or known IPs are now part of the

tives who are equally as responsible for carrying on

been here doing this. There have been different

window dressing that gets audiences in the door.

the mantle of these characters and their long and

people in charge of DC and making decisions. I’m

prestigious legacies.

really excited, both as an audience member and as

What is nice now with the storytelling on film

That’s what our different showrunners are doing, that’s what the more successful movies out there

The case we made was that opening a comic

a person at the company, that the movies of late

are doing. The known IP is the part that marketing

book was to feel like these characters were part of

can latch onto and then use to get people in the

the world they’re trying to save. We justified each

seats, but what keeps them sitting there is charac-

one of those changes. We weren’t doing each one

The more great movies being made about these

ter and the execution of the storytelling.

to be a first of this or a first of that. We wanted the

characters, the more people will be interested in

worlds of the stories we were telling to reflect our

them. I’m looking forward to all divisions of DC

With that mainstream audience in mind, do

world—just as we do for a lot of our shows, even the

storytelling continuing to find new and cool ways to

you have any general rules about superhero

ones that don’t have capes. We want the stories to

use these characters and to tell these stories.

storytelling in terms of casting, tone, etc.?

feel, as much as possible, like they are taking place

From the beginning the only rule I’d say was

in a world that we all live in.

to try to please our small group. If we tried to

The effort was to make sure the shows them-

have been so good and so exciting to the audience.

I’m a believer that a rising tide will raise all boats.

I think that the people that are in charge now, and the way they are going about things, and the methodology they are using is great for all of us.

please too many people at the outset we would

selves were diverse and then, out of that, there

make it too generic. We wouldn’t take the risks

has always been the conversation. If you’re going

The feature films from Marvel Studios have

that we want to take. With all the different writ-

to change any element of a historic character,

jettisoned the old secret identity trope from

ers' rooms and showrunners, there’s a real effort

there’s always a conversation about it. You end up

most of their superhero sagas. Thor, for

to challenge themselves.

drilling down on what is true to the DNA of that

instance, had a secret identity as surgeon

character. So while you may change their race,

Donald Blake for decades in the pages of Marvel

its second season, we had a saying: “Heart, humor,

gender, or sexuality, in reality the essence of these

Comics, but that was ignored for his Hollywood

and spectacle.” That was our mantra. Heart and

characters—the qualities that make them funny,

franchise. By contrast, your shows have held on

humor get back to what we were talking about with

or smart, or a hero—is there.

to the tradition far more. Is that something you

Early on, when we had Arrow, and Flash was in

character. The spectacle part was for making sure

I am proud of what we’ve done. I feel like in the

consider more important for DC's characters?

”IT HAS BECOME SO MUCH MORE A PART OF THE MODERN-DAY MYTH AND THE FABRIC OF OUR CULTURE THAT PEOPLE ARE NOW MORE ACCEPTING OF GENRE IN GENERAL. GENRE BECAME MAINSTREAM. ALL THE STUFF THAT I DID AS A KID THAT WAS WEIRD AND NERDY IS NOW, SOMEHOW, MAINSTREAM.” we pushed the technology of TV.

TV space we’ve gotten to make a lot of change in

And do you think it costs the genre credibility

that area faster than they have in any of the comic

with contemporary audiences?

shows but they also watch the movies and they

book film worlds, truthfully. But hopefully, our doing

We get a hard time about it from certain contingen-

actually do want them to be somewhat compara-

that has helped even there.

cies, because the hero has to let a certain amount

I do think the audience can tell. They watch the

ble these days. So we start on some visual effects

If we want the responsibility of shepherding

of people know what their secret identity is to allow

sequences months before we start shooting. It can

these characters through a generation, we have to

for character dynamics and relationships. But I’ll be

be three to four months of working on a sequence,

recognize how we are going to continue to augment

honest: that’s always been tricky to manage. When

which you couldn’t do in TV just five or 10 years ago.

these stories to reflect the world today. Then some-

you keep the secret in place it’s a really rewarding

one else will come along and they will take them

thing, but then if you keep it too long you run the

into the next generation, whatever that will be.

risk of people not investing in the characters if they

Nobody in television is generating more programming firsts in representation than you.

don’t know the secret.

It has become a hallmark of your productions, in

DC Comics characters appear in every medium,

fact. Has that led, over time, to any unexpected

of course, but how do you view the recent trajec-

have had that on certain shows where we have

consequences? Has there been pushback

tory of the Warner Bros. live-action feature films

maintained the secret identity of certain characters

from any partner, or resistance in any part of

that feature some of the same superhero char-

and it has prevented them from getting closer to a

the pipeline?

acters used in your shows? The mythologies and

character who doesn’t really know who the lead is. ★

And you’re correct about the credibility. We

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JOE + ANTHONY RUSSO D I S R U P T O R S

J

The Avengers: Endgame directors explain how disruption can make for good box office

BY MIKE FLEMING JR oe and Anthony Russo are riding high—about as high as it’s possible to get—as their latest, the feverishly anticipated superhero showdown Avengers: Endgame, starts to carve its name in the annals of all-time, highest global-grossing box-office hits. The brothers have spent the last seven years at Marvel working with screenwriters Christopher Markus and Stephen McFeely on two Captain America films and two Avengers films, which, by the time the latest is done, will have grossed in excess of $6 billion.

So what a time it is for the Russos to jump out of their safety zone by launching full steam

ahead with their monied production company AGBO, through which they’ll develop, produce and co-finance films, TV series and other projects—including remakes of certain MGM properties such as The Thomas Crown Affair, which is being developed as a vehicle for Michael B. Jordan.

The Russos have been planning the leap for several years, but they couldn’t have chosen a better time to launch their label, with spacious headquarters nearly done down in LA’s fashion district, and Markus and McFeely serving as their co-presidents of story. But little of the siblings’ success has been down to luck. Instead they attribute their rise to a series of “shoestring saves”.

Their story starts after they ran up an astronomical credit card debt—$30,000—to fund their debut avant-garde film Pieces, only to find their decision to cut the film to unsecured music from bands like Led Zeppelin and Funkadelic would have cost $1 million they didn’t have. Despite a stream of walkouts at the film’s only showing at Slamdance—one critic snarked that the film was so derivative of Martin Scorsese that someone should bury the negative to Mean Streets in the desert, so that no one else could be inspired by it ever again—the film found one massively important, high-profile supporter in Steven Soderbergh.

Soderbergh sparked to the Russos’ potential and godfathered them through their first “real” film project, 2002’s Welcome to Collinwood. Later, Ron Howard saw a failed series pilot and gave them Arrested Development. That led to Community, where an episode featuring a paintball fight convinced Marvel’s Kevin Feige they could handle action. Boom—they got Captain America.

The launch of AGBO sees them jumping off the Marvel train at the most disruptive time the business has seen since the advent of television. There’s only one certainty: content is king and distribution platforms are hungry for it. “Technology is driving all this change, along with viewers’ habits,” says Joe Russo.

Adds Anthony, “What’s driving us is the belief that the future has more and greater possibilities than anything that ever existed before, and that is the road to follow.”

Their North Star? An emphasis on storytelling—Markus and McFeely will help there—of the kind that elevated their superhero work. There will also be a heavy accent on projects that touch them, like their first post-Avengers directing assignment, the modestly budgeted Cherry, based on the memoir of a PTSD-suffering soldier (to be played by Amazing Spider-Man’s Tom Holland) who became addicted to drugs and began robbing banks. The Russos paid $1 million for Nico Walker’s 2018 memoir because his story hit home—they, too, are from Cleveland and have seen friends fall prey to prescription opioids back home.

That said, they’re also tying down a deal for tentpole-caliber intellectual property that Markus and McFeely will script for the Russos to direct, plus numerous TV projects and other films. These

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include the Matthew Michael Carnahan-directed Mosul—a drama about a police unit battling to free that city from ISIS militants—which will be their first release.

The Russos say they’ve learned much from Marvel, and its impresario Kevin Feige, that will help inform the new venture. “I remember saying to Kevin, for Captain America: Civil War, ‘We want to take your most popular character—your cash cow—and turn him into a villain,’” says Joe. “That was Iron Man, and a faction [at Marvel] wanted that to resolve in the second act and have a traditional third act. Anthony and I said we weren’t interested in doing that movie, and Kevin supported a radical choice that paid off to the tune of a billion dollars.”

That set up Avengers: Infinity War, taking the risk to a whole other level when they killed half the Marvel superhero roster; including Spider-Man, on loan from Sony. “Imagine trying to get Sony to play ball with Disney on killing Spider-Man,” laughs Anthony. “Only Kevin could have managed that.”

So what’s the rationale for launching a new company at such a turbulent time? Says Joe, “To be successful today, you have to shake things up. You have to understand social media, and how information travels on the internet. How disruption works, and the way you can generate conversation there at a very essential level. Pop culture is social media. It’s a giant global conversation being had by millions of people around the world, voices all shouting into this collective stream. Civil War, Infinity War and Endgame were all very disruptive, loud choices, and the ratio of disruption has been reflected in the box office.”

The duo originally intended to park AGBO with Fox, but then decided not to limit themselves.

Ironically, the subsequent Disney deal would have meant they were back at their old studio. Still, they have no regrets. “We love Disney but wanted to be agnostic,” says Anthony. “The times that Joe and I got frustrated came when we had overhead deals in television, and it limited our deal-making abilities. We hated corporate structures that limited us in terms of the house we could build.”

Says Joe, “Ultimately, what’s interesting to us is ownership and control. It’s a big priority. We’ll either have a co-fi right or creative control on ones we don’t co-fi. That’s what will get us out of bed in the morning. We’ve done this for 25 years, at varying levels of success, both in film and TV. We’re comfortable with our decision-making process, and we’ve learned that the more time you spend on storytelling instead of politics, the better off you’ll be. If you can tell serialized stories you can win—and that goes for film and television. Some of the TV shows we’ve seen have been some of the best content I’ve ever seen, and they’re often better than any movie I’ve seen this year.”

“YOU HAVE TO UNDERSTAND SOCIAL MEDIA, AND HOW INFORMATION TRAVELS ON THE INTERNET. HOW DISRUPTION WORKS, AND THE WAY YOU CAN GENERATE CONVERSATION THERE AT A VERY ESSENTIAL LEVEL.” —J O E R U S SO “Look,” says Anthony, “we may go broke. That’s one of the possibilities here.”

“But, ultimately,” interrupts Joe, “we’ve learned that at the end of the day, we’d rather succeed or fail on our own terms. That makes you a much happier and healthier person than if you were to fail on someone else’s terms. There is a lot of money available for storytelling in a way that there never was before. A lot of people bemoan the ubiquity of comic book films, but it’s about serialization of storytelling, and Marvel happened to capture the spirit of changes in technology and [saw] that serialized event storytelling is a sure way to get people out of their houses.

“I think that will become more true as the years progress,” he decides. “We’re not going back to ’70s auteur filmmaking. There are tremendous opportunities.”

At the premiere of Avengers: Endgame, the Russos took the stage alongside every hero in the MCU, and they were among many whose run as signature superheroes was over. The significance wasn’t lost on any of them.

“It was something you can’t really put into words,” Anthony says. “But making that movie, everyone had the sense this was a special moment in time, that we had gone through a life cycle and like all life cycles, when they come to an end there’s a sadness and a gratitude.”

Says Joe: “The enormity of all of it might not hit us for a while, but it’s been an amazing journey, a really unique experiment. I’ve been texting with some of the other filmmakers as they respond to the movie, like Ryan Coogler, Peyton Reed and Taika Waititi, and expressing to them how rare this is that this many artists can get together, pass the baton so selflessly to each other and work collectively to tell a story.” ★ D E A D L I N E .C O M / AWA R D S L I N E

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A

fter a period of years when Netflix,

centerpiece of their free services. And then there

Disney+. The company expects the service, which

Hulu and Amazon reigned virtu-

are social-minded upstarts like Jeffrey Katzenberg’s

is attractively priced at $7 a month, to rack up 60

ally unchallenged as subscription

Quibi (opposite), which is preparing to go toe-to-

million to 90 million global subscribers by 2024.

streaming’s Big Three, the landscape

toe with Facebook and Snap Inc. in the mobile

Even though Netflix currently stands at 149 million,

is getting more crowded than the last

video arena with a well-funded launch in late 2019.

the notion of serious competition was enough to

act of Avengers: Endgame.

As they hear all of those sabers rattling, the

The 2020s will dawn with major new pay-to-

original Big Three are dipping deeper into their war

dent Netflix stock and send Disney’s up 10%.

Randall Stephenson, chairman and CEO of

stream offerings from Apple, Disney and WarnerMe-

chests, combining for an estimated $20 billion in

AT&T, pronounced himself “impressed” with

dia all jockeying for the attention of consumers and

content spending in 2018. Throw in the new kids

Disney’s presentation. The bullish investor reaction,

the talent community. Still other media giants like

on the block and the tally tops $30 billion in total

he said during the company’s earnings call in late

NBCUniversal and Viacom agree that the future is

annual investment.

April, was “very instructive” and “gave the market an

online, but they believe advertising, still a $75 billion annual revenue source on linear TV, remains the

This complex, multi-front battle qualifies as perhaps the disruption of the 21st Century (with

appreciation that this is a viable DTC product”.

WarnerMedia has been comparatively tight-

apologies to President Trump). It has implications

lipped about its plans, saying it will tell all during

for everyone in the entertainment business for a

its own investor day in September or October. The

number of reasons—changing distribution econom-

challenge before the company is to harness the

ics, talent deals and the flooding of the market with

power of HBO, whose HBO Now is a well-estab-

yet more high-end stuff to watch.

lished but slower-growth SVOD entity, and combine

Disney has wagered $71.3 billion on its digital future, the price of acquiring two-thirds of 21st Cen-

it with the other disparate assets at WarnerMedia.

Sarah Aubrey, who is head of original content

tury Fox, whose stable of brands (The Simpsons,

for WarnerMedia’s new service, said the focus

Avatar, X-Men, etc.) join Marvel, Pixar, Lucasfilm and

internally thus far has been on surfacing intellectual

others under the expanded tent.

property that can cross boundaries at the tradition-

AT&T, similarly, laid out $81 billion for Time

ally siloed company. During a panel at the NAB

Warner, took on $40 billion in debt, and survived a

Show moderated by this reporter, Aubrey said the

legal challenge by Trump’s regulatory forces, largely

leadership team (which includes network veterans

in the name of streaming. Legacy companies, having

Kevin Reilly and Bob Greenblatt) has been embrac-

contentedly sold programming to SVOD services,

ing the power of data and analytics. “I used to hate

pocketing handsome checks for years, have come

data,” she said, noting her pre-corporate days as

to realize that with the traditional pay-TV bundle

a producer. In her current role, though, “We call it,

fraying and technology advancing, they need to

‘Gut, data, gut.’ You can really love something, but

develop a more direct relationship with viewers.

then you need to see if the data can support it and

With the 85 million U.S. TV homes at its lowest

help you understand what audiences respond to.”

level since 2007, the tide of cash is going out, and

Theatrical releases for some titles developed for the

the paranoia is that the turf traditional media has

platform are also a possibility, she added.

occupied for decades could be ceded to the tech

Marc DeBevoise, president and CEO of CBS

business. Or, as veteran Wall Street analyst Craig

Interactive, told Deadline that it is increasingly

Moffett puts it, “The status quo is blowing up

crucial to tailor strategy to the nature of the content

around them.”

on the service. While CBS All Access is in the mid-

Disney has taken an early lead in the disruption

single-digit millions of subscribers (i.e., far from Net-

sweepstakes, dazzling analysts and the media dur-

flix), it has gained steady traction thanks to a mix of

ing its Investor Day, held in mid-April at its Burbank

live TV and originals like new editions of The Twilight

HQ. During the three-and-a-half-hour presentation,

Zone and Star Trek as well as spinoffs like The Good

it revealed extensive details, financial projections

Fight. “We look at it by cohort, by individual type of

and footage from original series to be included on

audience,” DeBevoise said. “We believe we have a

How will existing streaming services fare as a fresh crop of big-budget competitors join the fight for supremacy?

BY DADE HAYES

D I S R U P T O R S

THE FRESH FACES OF STREAMING 64

D E A D L I N E .C O M / AWA R D S L I N E

strong product and we believe we know how to build it over a number of years.”

As of this writing, there are 235 overthe-top [OTT] video services available in the U.S., according to market tracker Parks Associates. And even though customers are increasingly doing away with their traditional pay-TV bundles, the question for all of the new entrants is whether they will bring must-have offerings to the crowded marketplace. Studies have shown that three services tend to be the limit in most households—how will the new breed replace one of the current must-haves?

Apple may be aiming for the most interesting strategy. It devoted much of its March show-and-tell event for its forthcoming service, Apple TV+, to bringing A-listers like Steven Spielberg and Jennifer Aniston to the stage in Cupertino, CA (and frustrated many by revealing next-to-no footage or details during the hour-long show). But don’t let the glitter distract you from the ruthless focus on the bottom line.

The company is emphasizing its services revenue, collecting a 30% “Apple tax” on every app downloaded from the App Store or music track downloaded on iTunes.

One executive familiar with the company’s thinking says that for all of its seeming embrace of Hollywood, the company is “a revenue machine, so whatever they do has

JEFFREY KATZENBERG

to bring in money.” Speculation has them

With his new short-form streaming service Quibi, the industry

distributing its original shows from Oprah

veteran is aiming for nothing less than world domination

Winfrey, Spielberg and Reese Witherspoon for free on Apple devices and then banking on third-party pass-through revenue from apps like Starz and Showtime, which will be sold on Apple as they are through platforms such as Amazon or Roku.

The range of approaches to hooking viewers increasingly unlikely to be tethered to their traditional living room represents one of the rare moments in media

BY DOMINIC PATTEN

T

here’s a perfectly good reason why Jeffrey Katzenberg refuses to take no for an answer. “I didn’t know this about myself growing up as a kid, but I’m dyslexic,” says the former DreamWorks CEO. “And when I learned that about myself, it answered a question that I had wondered about a good deal of my life. For most people, when you see the letters N and O, it says ‘NO’, but when you’re dyslexic, you

interchange things—that’s part of what it does. So when I look at no, I just see the word ‘ON’. That pretty much

explains everything. I don’t know no, I only know on.”

And Katzenberg certainly has been on lately, ever since he cashed out with the $3.6 billion sale of the ’toon

when conglomerates are not displaying

studio to NBCUniversal in 2016. First he raised nearly $600 million from investors to put up a shingle for his

groupthink. No competing asteroid movie

new digital media and technology investment firm WndrCo in early 2017. Then, at the tail end of 2018, having

projects or copycat efforts to create

teamed up with former eBay CEO and one-time Golden State GOP gubernatorial candidate Meg Whitman,

“cinematic universes,” but genuinely

Katzenberg announced his latest project, Quibi, a short-form and mobile-based subscription streaming service

distinct battle plans in the high-stakes

that debuts next year.

streaming war.

With $1 billion in backing from Disney, WarnerMedia, Fox, Viacom and NBCU, plus MGM, Lionsgate, Sony and

“Many people want to make this a

China’s Alibaba, among others, Katzenberg and Quibi CEO Whitman started with a lot of muscle for their auda-

zero-sum game,” DeBevoise says. “People

cious bid to attract the 25-35 demographic of digital natives to buy into a whole new form of media—though it’s

say, ‘One person’s going to win, everyone

not a process he likes to describe as disruptive.

else is going to lose.’ I disagree. I think we’ll

“You know, disruption usually means you’re displacing someone,” Katzenberg muses. “I think this, as opposed

all have our distinct places in the market

to that, is actually incremental, and it’s creating something new, not replacing something. My wildest dream is

and the value proposition for viewers is

that Quibi will create the next generation of film narrative. If we’re right—and I underline the word if, because we

going to have to be worth it.” ★ Dade Hayes, Deadline’s New York Business Editor, is co-author with Dawn

have lots of obstacles, and a very, very high mountain that we’re climbing here—but if we’re right, and obviously I believe we will be right, five years from now will be the Quibi era.”

A well-positioned pal sees no reason to doubt that likelihood. “Jeffrey is one of the smartest, most innova-

Chmielewski of Binge Times, a book about

tive people in the industry,” says NBCU Vice-Chairman Ron Meyer, the new owner of DreamWorks. “I’ve known

the streaming wars to be published in 2021.

him for over 40 years, and there has never been a time he hasn’t accomplished what he set out to do.”

D E A D L I N E .C O M / AWA R D S L I N E

65

But besides a long-standing friendship, there is a strong reason for Meyer to be convinced. Unlike YouTube, the multi-genre and multi-formatted Quibi will offer high-end Hollywood production values and high-profile storytelling in quick bites for millennials to suit their real-time engagement patterns. But where once content was king, the defining characteristic of the present media moment is the platform.

Which means that while most of the industry are currently at the roulette table hoping that their bets on new competition to Netflix and Amazon pay off, Katzenberg’s chips are on the most ubiquitous platform of all—the phones we carry with us everywhere and all the time. It’s an audacious move, but one that has the potential to sweep the table if its primary demographic finds just a few minutes in the day to watch. It may not seem too big an ask on the surface, but it would be a giant leap for the subscription service, which will be consumer-ready and suited-up with a varied array of originals from its day of launch.

“Watching video on the go has nothing to do with watching television through different streaming services,” says Katzenberg. “We’re going after the 60 to 70 minutes a day that our potential customers are already spending watching short form. They’re not giving that time up because they’re watching Billions, or Mrs. Maisel, or whatever that new, great show is that’s coming on.”

That’s not to say that Quibi doesn’t offer comparable quality—drawing from the same level of talent that creates those great shows, there are currently Quibi deals with Catherine Hardwicke, Lena Waithe, Guillermo del Toro, Sam Raimi, Anna Kendrick, NBA superstar Steph Curry, Telemundo, music manager Scooter Braun, Jennifer Lopez, Antoine Fuqua and Jason Blum, to name just a few. Then there’s the price point—from $5 to $8 a month—and the fact that Quibi is paying top dollar for licensed content from many of its own investors—content that will fully revert back to them after seven years in what could be a very lucrative feedback loop for all.

Helping Katzenberg and Whitman to bring that package to market, with three new shows a week starting in April 2020, is an ever-growing team of the industry’s best and brightest, such as ex-DC Entertainment chief Diane Nelson and CAA’s Jim Toth.

“Our 25-to-35 demographic is the most diverse demographic in the history of this country,” says Whitman, “so we have to really think all the time about being the audience. We also know that, in order to make enough content for this venue, we need all eight of the major studios in the boat rowing. Not one of them could make enough content for [Quibi] alone, and this needs to be a pretty rich experience.”

The seriousness of their intent is apparent just from stepping into Quibi’s HQ in the Hollywood Media District. You can find an Emmy winner and national treasure chatting quietly in the lobby, a row of glass jars of candy lining the walls, and the dirge of keyboard activity hanging in the air. Off the entrance, row after row of black monitors and young-ish staffers—there are about 100 employees right now—sitting in near-immaculate cubicles are surrounded by a perimeter of glass offices and corner conference rooms. Think Silicon Valley with a Tinseltown flourish.

A born wizard of the hustle, and someone who clearly still has a joy for the magic of Hollywood after years and years of wielding (and sometimes being cut by) the sword of industry fortune, Katzenberg has been out on the road practically since day one. Selling the start-up with an old school retail fervor, he’s been out with Whitman hitting target audiences of very different stripes—for example, Austin’s

C

hinese actor/director Wu Jing has had a massive couple of years, starring in two films that have grossed over $1.5 billion, with nearly all the box office coming from the Middle Kingdom. A one-time mid-level Hong Kong martial arts actor, Wu stormed screens

with 2017’s Wolf Warrior 2—which he also helmed—and this year he was featured in The Wandering Earth, a sci-fi epic that

SXSW festival in March, then Beverly Hills’ Milken Institute Global Conference in

made global headlines, but might not have gotten made had

April, and now they’ll be flying over the ocean to bring the pitch to Cannes. Whitman

Wu not contributed $9 million of his own money to the budget.

and Katzenberg (who once brazenly offered to pay $75 million for three more final

A powerhouse who became a household name only in his early

episodes of Breaking Bad in order to stream them online in six-minute chunks for

40s, he’s been hailed as China’s Rambo, though some disagree

50 cents a day) are clearly making a point to both investors and creators, as well as

with that notion and wonder if Wu can achieve global stardom.

creating a new media model.

“In most respects, Meg and I are total opposites, which has become our super-

Frank Grillo, who co-starred in Wolf Warrior 2, calls Wu’s ascension “mindboggling”. When Grillo first traveled to China,

power,” notes Katzenberg of their collaboration. “It works because of everything that

after an offer from Joe and Anthony Russo, who were quietly

I’m not good at, everything that I don’t do well, everything I don’t like doing, she’s a

consulting on Wolf Warrior 2, he says, “Nobody knew who Wu

rock star at. Yet, here’s one thing that she and I share in common, and maybe it’s

was.” Now, “He is the guy in China. The fact that he had taken

because we’re two old dogs who’ve done these tricks before. What we share in

on that kind of movie at that level with not a ton of experience, I

common is that both of us are at our happiest, and most engaged, and most excited,

was just amazed at the balls the guy had.”

and most challenged, when we are doing something that falls somewhere between improbable and impossible.” ★

66

D E A D L I N E .C O M / AWA R D S L I N E

The film was remarkable for its American-style action. “That has a lot to do with Wu Jing letting Sam [Hargrave] and the guys

D I S R U P T O R S

L

ion. Trailblazer. Gentleman. These are

an attractive proposition for investors, and

some of the words industry leaders

a few years ago Anonymous got substantial

used to describe Oscar-winning

backing from the Emerson Collective, the

producer Steve Golin, who passed

organization led by Laurene Powell Jobs.

away unexpectedly last month aged

64 following a long battle with cancer.

It’s rare to find producers who excel both in

look for new ways to branch out. Last year,

film and TV, but Spotlight and True Detective

Anonymous smartly launched international

producer Steve Golin was one of them. The

production company Chapter One in the U.K.,

Anonymous Content CEO, who worked up until

a joint venture with local agencies Casarotto

the last, had been on our Disruptors list this

Ramsay and United Agents.

year from the off, but he was taken ill shortly

Just a couple of weeks before he passed we

before we were due to speak.

sat down with Golin in LA alongside some of the

The Oscar-winner spawned multi-

Can the man who took China by storm bring his action flick mastery to Hollywood?

BY NANCY TARTAGLIONE

WU JING

Golin wasn’t content just to sit and admire what he had built, however. He continued to

partners at the firm. He always made the time

disciplinary and innovative media businesses,

to speak. He discussed the industry with his

which became models for aspiring film and TV

usual intelligence, frankness and curiosity and

producers and managers who wanted to go

he was making plans for novel ways to disrupt

beyond the status quo.

the business and for buzzed-about new shows

With partner Joni Sighvatsson, Golin

with leading networks.

launched Propaganda Films, a talent manage-

Golin was that rarest of beasts in Hollywood.

ment, advertising, and video production com-

He was a visionary trailblazer with impeccable

pany, in 1986. The duo built Propaganda into the

taste, and he was also a gentleman. That’s a

largest music video and commercial production

rare and winning combination indeed.★

company in the world. They discovered young video directors who would become leading film directors, such as David Fincher, Michael Bay, Spike Jonze, Antoine Fuqua, and Gore Verbinski.

Golin and Sighvatsson sold Propaganda Films to PolyGram, which was subsequently bought by Seagram in 1998. Golin exited the company in 1999 and in early 2000, he launched management and production company Anonymous Content, guiding it to become a powerhouse within the industry.

Golin received three Best Picture nominations for producing Babel, The Revenant and Spotlight, the latter of which won the top prize.

To have made The Revenant and Spotlight in the same season was an incredible feat in

guide him through all these action sequences and having no ego

itself. Both are among the most acclaimed,

about it. I think that was his greatest asset.”

challenging and stirring U.S. movies of the

Wolf Warrior 2 was a flag-waving story of a special forces operative rescuing Chinese citizens in Africa from a band of

past decade. He was the recipient of three best drama/limited series Primetime Emmy

mercenaries. The Wandering Earth is set against the backdrop

nominations for True Detective, Mr. Robot

of the imminent destruction of the sun. The two films became

and The Alienist. He also produced George

the number 1 and 2 movies ever at the Chinese box office, giving

Clooney’s limited series Catch-22, which

Hollywood reason to consider locally-aimed partnerships.

premieres on May 17.

Wu is next teaming with Jackie Chan for Climbers, the story

On the management side, Golin

of the first Chinese mountaineers to successfully ascend Mount

continued to rep Alfonso Cuarón, with

Everest’s North Ridge. For Grillo, it’s smart of Wu to pair himself

the Anonymous stable also boasting

with Chan, but he doesn’t see the star as comparable to Chan

big names like Emma Stone, Samuel L.

or Sylvester Stallone quite yet. “He’s right now in a great position

Jackson, Mahershala Ali, Winona Ryder,

to be a huge Chinese movie star and that’s what he’s become. Is

Meg Ryan, Edgar Wright, James Franco

that going to translate to American audiences? I don’t know. But

and John Cleese.

he’s very charismatic, he’s a smart guy. He was in the military, so he understands that aspect of what he’s doing. He’s extremely connected. He’s a stud and he knows how to make a film.”

But, suggests Grillo, “He has a great crevasse to jump over where he’s going to translate to global movie stardom… It could happen, it’ll be interesting to watch. But if he just stays in China he’s still making more money than all of us. It’s not a bad career.” ★

Both firms Golin launched became

STEVE GOLIN

Producer, disruptor, gentleman. Paying tribute to the Oscarwinning Anonymous Content CEO, who died last month

BY ANDREAS WISEMAN D E A D L I N E .C O M / AWA R D S L I N E

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CHARLIE BROOKER +ANNABEL JONES When you released Black Mirror’s “Bandersnatch” episode, it marked the arrival into the mainstream of a technology Netflix had applied to children’s programming: an interactive sort of choose-your-own-adventure tale. It was also, simultaneously, a critical twist on the notion of viewer control. What intrigued you about doing this?

Charlie Brooker: I think you’ve hit the nail on the head there, in that it’s simultaneously kind of new and old. Interactive movies have been around since Dragon’s Lair, which was an arcade game from 1983 that was released on LaserDisc.

And there were a lot of CD-ROM movies and things like that in the ’90s; attempts at doing interactive movies.

I think what was different here is that this was foremost a movie, but it was also on a platform that isn’t a gaming platform, and it’s more movie than game. I’ve played a lot of videogames but I’ve never written one, and so there were aspects of creating it that were game-like, but we approached it as though we were writing a film.

It was this weird hybrid experience where we had to make up a lot of the rules about how it was working behind the scenes as we went along.

Annabel Jones: When Netflix initially told us they had the capability to do this, and they asked us if we’d be interested in making an interactive film, we said no. We were determined, it was not for us. It might have felt gimmicky, so it wasn’t something we were interested in.

Then, annoyingly, Charlie came up with an idea that could only work if we had that interactive layer, and so suddenly it felt as though we could have our cake and eat it too.

We embraced the interactivity, but we also show the viewer that the whole thing can only exist with them interacting, and then becoming conflicted. Everything fed off everything else.

So we were fortunate to find an idea that was enrichened by the technology, rather than feeling like an add-on.

Brooker: You say ‘fortunate’, more like cursed.

We were cursed to make it.

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The Black Mirror creator and producer shuffled the paradigms when they presented an interactive episode, letting viewers lead the action

BY JOE UTICHI

Jones: Well, yes. I like the idea of us being Disrup-

sort of main character is that? So conceptually, I

tors, because this bloody thing was the most

think that aided us.

disruptive drama that we’ve ever done.

One of the most important things to me when

for all these different approaches to coexist.

Even within Black Mirror, each episode feels

we started, and the one thing that amazed me

completely different.

How did you work it all out?

when I saw the final version, was that it was seam-

Jones: Yes, each episode is made by different

Brooker: It was very complicated from the outset.

less. You could play it on your TV and you couldn’t

teams in different locations, and some are under an

You can’t even write the outline in a standard way.

see the join between the branches. That felt like

hour and more like a TV show, and others are bigger

I was using Twine, which is this interactive fiction

some kind of magic trick. When we went into it,

and more blockbuster-ish, and they could probably

programming language that’s a bit like HTML. Luck-

that wasn’t going to be the case. There would have

exist in a movie theater. Netflix does a good job of

ily, I’m quite geeky. I’m quite dweeby. Maybe writers

been in a gap as the next section buffered, and we

being able to present ideas that are maybe a nice

tend to be, sometimes, but this was uber-geeky

spent a long time working out how to keep the story

conceit or concept but that wouldn’t necessarily

even for me. Once we had the flow of the story, I

flowing along.

be made for theatrical distribution. That’s how

kept adding bits to it, but that would mean adding

everything finds its own niche, and it all delivers on

whole sections, and you couldn’t easily just add a

There’s a debate raging at the Cannes Film

single scene.

Festival, and within the motion picture Acad-

different things at different times.

emy, about what constitutes film and what

What do you think the future of interactive on

the misery and confusion about it slowly started

constitutes television in the era of streaming.

Netflix looks like?

spreading out to affect every single department.

“Bandersnatch” seems to belong to something

Jones: I think, for Netflix, it’s another tool in the

The logistical nightmare never ended.

else entirely. What’s your take on the way this

storytelling box. They’ll look for the right projects

technology is changing how we perceive the

to apply it; I don’t think there’s going to be a huge

Were you really surprised it would be like that?

delineation of media?

rush towards commissioning everything that has an

Brooker: I think I can speak for both of us when I

Brooker: I would say that everything is becoming a

interactive element. I think they’ll try some things,

say we knew it would be challenging. I think what we

story platform, really. We classify “Bandersnatch” as

and some will work and others won’t.

kept doing was revising up our guesstimate of how

a film—an interactive film—first and foremost. But

Brooker: While we were making “Bandersnatch”,

challenging it was. Early on, we were going, “I guess

you could easily classify it a game, or a TV episode.

we were saying we’d never put ourselves through

this is a bit like doing two episodes at once.” By the

I think the boundaries are blurring, and I don’t know

this again. And then, I think, by the end you forget

end, we realized it was more like doing an entire

where you draw the line between these different

how harrowing it was. So there have been some

season in one go. There are five-and-a-half hours of

things. Ultimately, we have to start recognizing the

ideas that have bubbled up, and I’d never say never

footage on there. It’s a huge undertaking.

fact that these are stories first and foremost, rather

to returning. But there’s no point in doing it for the

than bespoke media. There’s very little difference

sake of it, because not every story will suit this

painful as it could have been because the Netflix

between movies, TV and games, and it’s all starting

format, in the same way that not every story would

tech team were incredible at finessing things as we

to merge into one. Bingeing a series on Netflix is very

suit the format of a musical or a horror movie.

went along. They were creating the tools we were

different from consuming it week by week on televi-

using and kept coming back with improvements.

sion, which is very different to watching it in a movie

I’m trying to remember. There hasn’t been a

They asked us to push the technology, or to come

theater, or playing it as a piece of interactive fiction.

musical episode of Black Mirror, has there?

up with ideas they didn’t think they could quite pull

The story is what remains, but the boundaries are

Brooker: No, but I’m delighted to know that you

off, and they would work out how to do them. We’d

becoming arbitrary.

nearly think we might have done one [laughs].

say, “Can we do this?” And they’d never say, “No.”

Jones: I think there’s enough room for everyone to

There’s room for everything. Sometimes that’s how

They’d go, “Well, we can’t currently, but we’ll work

own their own values. We made “Bandersnatch”

we come up with ideas—we sort of go, “What

out if we can find a means of doing that.” Nine times

for Netflix because it’s the only streaming platform

would be the Black Mirror version of a musical

out of 10, they would work out a solution.

with this technical ability, but we wouldn’t have

episode?” And that prompts a conversation that

Jones: I think the other complication was that,

made it as a videogame. That’s a very different

sometimes ends up with something very differ-

editorially, we set out to try and create something

beast. It’s not a challenge to videogames, just as

ent. On occasion, the only thing that’s annoying is

that had a cohesion to it. The character had to be

Netflix movies aren’t a challenge to the theatrical

we’ll go, “What’s the Black Mirror equivalent of a

consistent and the endings all had to have a degree

film market. I think there’s room for everyone.

Western?” And then we’ll go, “Oh, shit. Westworld

It started out as a fairly lonely process, and then

But much as it was painful, it was also not as

of truth to them that would support your understanding of the rest of the film.

exists, doesn’t it?”

In the birth of every art form, there is a period of transition in which the rules of older art forms

I can't think of a Black Mirror equivalent of a

because discarding it gives you lots of room for

are applied. Cinema borrowed from theatre and

musical. Just saying. I won’t ask for a cut.

choice points with dramatic and diverse turning

magic in its early days. Videogames borrowed

Brooker: Oh, we have had conversations about

points. But you’ll end up with a character who isn’t

from cinema. It took a while for them each to

what a musical version of Black Mirror might look

consistent, and the endings will feel meaningless.

find their own language. Do you think Netflix,

like. That has been a part of our conversations.

Brooker: I think it’s partly why, in the story, Stefan

and streaming in general, may, in fact, be a new

Jones: Before you sue us...

becomes aware that forces are acting upon him

language that requires definition?

Brooker: Yes, before you sue us [laughs]. We’re

and making him do things, because that makes him

Jones: I think that makes sense.

just getting that in there quickly. We have had those

a separate character from the instruction you’re

Brooker: It’s a good assessment of it; it’s its own

conversations. And anything else you might suggest,

giving him. Most videogame characters the player

medium. I think that’s why you’re seeing more and

we have talked about that too.

controls are, by their very nature, as unpredictable

more things that are hard to categorize. Streaming

as the players. You could be playing Red Dead

really is its own beast. I don’t think, for example, that

might already be in the next season. How do you

Redemption and following the story, or you could

“Bandersnatch” is a sign everything is going to be

know that’s not one of the episodes we’ve got

spend the entire game kicking pigs to death. What

interactive in the future. But it’s there. There’s room

coming up? ★

If you set that limitation it makes your life hell

Who knows? The musical version of Black Mirror

D E A D L I N E .C O M / AWA R D S L I N E

69

Celebrating the directors finally getting big-budget gigs,

D I S R U P T O R S

as the fight for industry inclusivity rages on

BY AMANDA N’DUKA

A

WOMEN BEHIND THE LENS t last, women are directing tent-

narrative that women are unable to succeed at the

have the awareness every day of what I wore and

pole features, an arena in which

big-budget level.”

who would say what to me,” Hoffman says, “there is

they’ve historically been sidelined.

The issue of gender disparity behind the camera

more space for those conversations now.”

The big comic book franchises are

has, of course, been in every female director’s

on board too, finally hiring from

consciousness long before the Weinstein era came

talking about diversity for so many years,” she says.

the plethora of talented women

to a crashing end. But then came the formation

“But now it feels like everybody is actually trying to

in the industry. Cathy Yan and Ava DuVernay are

of Time’s Up, in which Prince-Bythwood had early

tell their stories and have more inclusive representa-

helming two of DC Films’ upcoming blockbust-

involvement. “The strides they’ve made have been

tion on screen.”

ers for Warner Bros., Birds of Prey and New Gods

tremendous,” she says, “both in pushing issues to

respectively. Meanwhile, Marvel has Cate Shortland

the forefront in such a wide spectrum, whether it be

Ganatra has championed women, people of color,

directing Black Widow and Chloé Zhao helming The

the lack of representation in the media, pay equity,

and the LGBTQ+ community through her work, with

Eternals, as Gina Prince-Bythewood develops Silver

equal representation on boards and in agencies, or

her latest film, the Mindy Kaling and Emma Thomp-

& Black for Sony. And Disney has Niki Caro directing

of course, the bigger thing: women’s harassment.”

son-led comedy Late Night, making a big financial

the live-action remake of Mulan.

But despite that encouraging list, true gender

Courtney Hoffman started her career as a cos-

Nisha Ganatra agrees. “I know everybody’s been

As a first-generation filmmaker of Indian descent,

splash at Sundance. She was recently tapped to

tume designer, working on films such as Baby Driver,

helm Covers, a romance set in the Los Angeles music

parity remains elusive, and the women in those big-

The Hateful Eight and Captain Fantastic, before

scene, for Universal Pictures and Working Title.

name jobs aren’t going to be satisfied with just their

crossing over to the director role herself. “The biggest

own successes—they want the odds to be even for

thing that I feel in a post-Harvey Weinstein industry

the dynamics for women in the industry, Ganatra

all women in the field, disrupting the status quo and

is a little bit safer,” she says. Commissioned to direct

notes. So while we’re not there yet, this move is

blazing a trail for future female storytellers.

the action film Ruthless for Steven Spielberg’s

heartening. “The workplace has definitely changed,”

“I am seeing a definite shift, but it doesn’t mean

Real effort is being made on all levels to change

Amblin Partners, Hoffman is also adapting her short

she says. “I’m not the only person saying, ‘Hey, can

that the numbers are not still absolutely abysmal,”

film, a feminist Western titled The Good Time Girls,

we hire women?’ It’s coming from the line producer,

Prince-Bythewood says. Since writing and direct-

into a feature.

it’s coming from the executives; it’s coming from the

ing the now cult classic Love & Basketball in 2000,

Like Prince-Bythwood, Hoffman notes there’s

top down.”

Prince-Bythewood has fought for representation on

been a shift in the industry since the Weinstein

both the big and small screens. “The hope is that

scandal and subsequent formation of Time’s Up.

ances in place to support the drive for equality. They

we can have success when we get the opportu-

There truly is now an environment in which those

include Time’s Up and its initiative the 4% Chal-

nity, and that just opens doors for others to help

discussions can be heard.

lenge, named for the 4% of women who helmed

us change the narrative. We have to change the

“As someone who came up as crew and had to

Now, of course, there are some checks and bal-

the top films from 2007-2018. First announced at

“THE HOPE IS THAT WE CAN HAVE SUCCESS WHEN WE GET THE OPPORTUNITY, AND THAT JUST OPENS DOORS FOR OTHERS TO HELP US CHANGE THE NARRATIVE.” — G I NA PR I N CE- BY TH EWOO D 70

D E A D L I N E .C O M / AWA R D S L I N E

Gina PrinceBythewood

Courtney Hoffman

Nisha Ganatra

Roxann Dawson

D E A D L I N E .C O M / AWA R D S L I N E

71

ANITA GOU

Sundance this year, the Challenge calls for producers and actors to commit to a woman-helmed project within the next 18 months.

Roxann Dawson points out that this sort of scrutiny is necessary. “At this point, it’s going to be checking boxes for a while until they realize that there are a lot of really talented women out there,” she says. “And I think those women will hopefully rise to the top and be treated as equals.”

Dawson has been a go-to director for television shows like Crossing Jordan, The Americans, Star Trek: Voyager, Cold Case, and This Is Us. She transitioned to features with Fox’s Break-

The international producer has become one

through. Until the Disney-Fox merger took effect, Dawson was the only woman to direct a film on Fox’s release slate this year.

of the indie world’s most successful under-30 film producers

But the flipside of checking boxes is that it can result in an

BY ANDREAS WISEMAN

uncomfortable experience for women on set. “It’s something that does disturb me currently. Only because I feel that it’s a bit demeaning to walk onto a set and have people look at you like, ‘Oh, you’re checking the box and that’s why you’re here.

It’s not because you’re actually good.’”

Hoffman agrees. “Isn’t that kind of insulting?” she says.

But she also insists any shaming over how she got there won’t hold her back. “Because now you have the guilt that women haven’t been there. I’m going to show you what I’m capable of and it won’t be about gender.”

She adds, “If right now we have to be in the shaming phase, it’s unfortunate, but if that’s what brings the hires—if that’s what changes the landscape at this point—I just want to do whatever it takes to make sure that stories are being told by everyone who has a different perspective. I mean, we have literally a hundred years of cinema to make up for.”

So how to reconcile that hundred years of underrepresentation? Prince-Bythewood says it needs to be a collective effort.

“It’s absolutely on the studios to continue to step out of the comfort zone; it’s up to actors to use their power; it’s up to directors who are through the door to keep that door open, and pull others up. What you need is people in the fight, people to help you fight, and people to show you what the fight is. I really think it’s the only way it’s going to change.”

And it’s not enough just to hire women for production roles; it’s also necessary to have their perspective represented in the executive arena. As Ganatra says, “Even though they’re hiring female directors, sometimes there isn’t a woman in charge in the room, so then you’re still navigating a room full of men who all have power over you. When we put others in the room and other voices and other perspectives, different types of movies will start to get made.”

As the fight rages on, a common thread among this crop of female directors trying to make a difference is that no one

A

nita Gou found out she had two films going to Sundance this year via WeChat, while she was out on a road trip in Taiwan. It was a fitting way to find out for someone with such strong international connections.

One was Lulu Wang’s Mandarin-language comedy The Farewell, which was snapped up by A24 in a splashy $6 million deal, and the other was

Shia LaBeouf-starrer Honey Boy, which ended up being part of Amazon’s remarkable

buying spree. But Gou wasn’t fazed; though she was only 28, it wasn’t her first rodeo—

is looking for a handout. It’s about being seen, and getting

she had already taken two films to the festival: Netflix acquisition To the Bone in 2017

hired when you’re capable and talented.

and Sam Levinson’s Assassination Nation in 2018. That meant that all of her first four

Hoffman hopes there will come a time when initiatives and quotas are no longer necessary; when no one needs a

narrative features would debut in Park City—and that’s quite a start.

“I can’t say it was intentional,” Gou laughs. “Though I guess it was semi-intentional

reminder to be inclusive. “I look forward to the day when we

because Sundance is such an amazing platform for the filmmakers I gravitate

don’t have to have a conversation, and we don’t have to have

towards. [Sundance director of programming] Kim Yutani was a great advocate of

statistics or pledges to get female storytellers behind the

the movies this year, especially The Farewell.”

camera,” she says. “I look forward to the day when that’s not

They showed the movies back-to-back, creating a flurry of buyer activity. “It was

all we’re talking about. When we’re talking about the work. I

very exciting,” she recalls. “I was running between meetings on both movies, just trying

think a lot of women feel that way. But for right now, let’s talk

to keep my head above water.”

about the statistics. I think that’s the only way anything is going to change.” ★

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She now splits her time between LA, Taiwan and China, but she was born in Singapore, and grew up between Taiwan, Los Angeles, Hong Kong and Beijing, before

going to film school in New York.

Gou's late father and his two brothers are leading tech entrepreneurs in Taiwan.

Her uncle Terry Gou, a billionaire tycoon, is founder and chairman of Foxconn, the world's largest contract manufacturer of electronics and uncle Tai-Chiang Gou

D I S R U P T O R S

acquired a majority stake in Taiwan's oldest film studio, the Central Motion Picture Corporation (CMPC) in 2006. Terry Gou's son, Jeff Gou, was first to dabble in the U.S. film industry, co-founding Cherry Sky Films in Los Angeles in 2001 (and Serenity Entertainment International in Taipei in 2005).

“Film was a personal thing between my father and I growing up,” she says. “One of our shared passions was going to the movies together when he had time out of his extremely busy work schedule. That planted the seed as a young kid.”

Given the nature of the family business, Gou didn’t stay in the same place for long. “I grew up in different countries and in international schools because of my father’s business expansion. It was a kind of United Nations upbringing; I was con-

GOU ON SCREEN

nected to a lot of different stories.”

Gou returned to Taiwan after film school when she learned that Martin Scorsese’s 2016 big-budget epic Silence would base itself at her family’s studio. “I became the main liaison for the production at the studio,” she recalls. The experience was rewarding but also sobering. “It was certainly a crash course for me in every aspect of the physical production process behind big-budget independent filmmaking.”

Alongside producing U.S. movies, Gou is charged with heading up international production growth for CMPC. “In the 1960s and ’70s, the studio was a media hub in the region,” she says. “It fostered leading directors such as Ang Lee and Hou HsiaoHsien. Then competition grew from Hong Kong and China. But we still have a vast library and good infrastructure. We housed Silence, and Ang Lee returned to the studio to shoot parts of Life of Pi. I’m excited to be looking at how we can leverage our resources on projects that could play internationally as well as locally. We have some classic titles as well as some old Wuxia kung fu films. I’m looking at potential contemporary updates of these movies.”

In the U.S., Gou is onto her second label. She started out under the Foxtail banner but now produces under the Kindred Spirit moniker. She is working on a slate of film, TV and VR projects as well as securing a Chinese deal for The Farewell. Gou is a creative producer—she writes as well—but also invests her own capital into her projects.

How much would she be prepared to invest in a project? “I don’t set parameters. I could invest multiple millions. I haven’t done that yet but I will soon. There will also come a point when I want to bring on help in the company, but I want to stay nimble for now. I love being the master of my own ship.”

Her upcoming projects will, in part, reflect her own diversity, she says. There are projects with women directors and directors of color, and there are projects in different languages. “As a young, female, Asian producer there are a lot of times I feel like a unicorn. I often walk into a room and don’t see anyone like me. But I’ve embraced it. I try to look at it as a way to distinguish myself.

“Intersectionality is important to me. We’re identified today as an intersection of things—not only one thing. You should see other people in that way too. My background and identity are part of a trickle-down effect that helps directors to make different types of projects. Of course, I’m lucky to have had the support and resources to greenlight projects that are in step with my taste. I want projects that can travel beyond borders.”

Awkwafina-starrer The Farewell was a case in point. Lulu Wang’s well-reviewed feature is about a Chinese family that discovers their grandmother has only a short while left to live, so they decide to keep her in the dark and schedule a wedding before she passes. “It was an experiment for me,” says Gou, “in terms of looking at the way cultural conversations can evolve and whether an American indie film can work in a foreign language. A movie like this, which is very culturally specific but also a universal story, proved that it can.”

There have been lessons along the way, however—Assassination Nation garnered major buzz at Sundance but that didn’t translate to the box office. That too is part of the learning process for Gou. “All of my films are personal,” she insists.

“I’m learning about how you harness the best part of your film to continue a cultural

SUNDANCE KID Films Gou has brought to the

festival since 2017 (from top): The Farewell, Honey Boy, To the Bone, and Assassination Nation.

conversation outside of the festival space. I’m trying to tackle that.” ★ D E A D L I N E .C O M / AWA R D S L I N E

73

D I S R U P T O R S

KEVIN COSTNER

The bona fide movie star and epic film director embraces the limitless possibilities of streaming for his newest project

BY MIKE FLEMING JR.

F

it, suntanned, and with faint wrinkles in all the right places,

that moment, the trend format was two nights. I don’t care about trends. I

at 64, Kevin Costner still looks every bit the movie star that

care about story—beginning, middle, and end—and I have a lot of faith in an

he was through the ’80s and ’90s. It’s hard to believe that

audience not going anywhere if what you’re doing is compelling.

the iconic baseball film Field of Dreams turns 30 years old this year and his Best Picture winning directorial debut

Had you made The Highwaymen as theatrical instead of Netflix, how

Dances With Wolves will hit that milestone next year.

would it have been a different movie?

The maverick filmmaker is part of a group of stars this year (Julia

They’d be pressing you more, the people who have an audience on their

Roberts is another) that you once never would have imagined seeing in a

shoulder a little bit more than they need to. If you were following the

TV series. But Costner not only took that plunge with Yellowstone, from

history of Hatfields, that was a 15 to 20-year-old script. The Highwaymen

Hell or High Water and Sicario writer Taylor Sheridan, but also tested the

maybe 10 years old.

streaming waters with the Netflix film The Highwaymen.

Legend has it that it was going to be the last pairing of Paul Newman Back when you were a top Warner Bros. star, could you have seen

and Robert Redford.

yourself starring in television? It almost seemed like an insult in

I heard that, too. When it first came to me, seven, eight, or nine years ago,

those days.

I didn’t feel like I was right for it.

That’s actually not true at all. I was originally going to do Wyatt Earp as a six-hour thing. It was really, really good that way, and written to be that

Would a period movie like that, that takes its time, stand a chance

long. I was never afraid of story, and if anything, I feel propped up by story,

theatrically today?

and I’m not really worried how people are going to group me. I am going to

I don’t think so. I think it will be received by an audience on Netflix because

direct much more going forward, and I put all my faith in story.

of that, and the understanding we were after something special. But getting people out of their homes? I don’t think that movie makes it. So what would

Your first TV gig was Hatfields & McCoys. How surprised were you

happen is they have to make it for such a low amount, you’re going to lose

when it became such a big cable hit on History Channel?

the production value, and lose the premium viewing experience.

I was surprised. I didn’t think of myself as a leading man there, as much as a big presence. I liked it, but I said, “I feel like it’s missing about five scenes, and

What was the difference between Netflix and any other movie

instead of making you guess at them, I’ll write them. If you like that, I’m in.” At

company on The Highwaymen?

Kevin Costner as Frank Hamer in The Highwaymen, released on Netflix.

"I JUST KNOW THAT PEOPLE WILL FIND IT NOW; FAR MORE PEOPLE WILL SEE IT THAN WOULD HAVE EVER SEEN IT IN THE THEATER." 74

D E A D L I N E .C O M / AWA R D S L I N E

PHOTOGRAPH BY

Michael Buckner

It seemed exactly the same to me. I didn’t see any

that don’t go to the theater can now sit home and

wish there was room for more of those kind of movies,

difference at all.

go, “I’m going to watch this all, in a pure way.”

and the only trick is making them better so it’s unde-

But there’s a lack of transparency at Netflix,

first time and not have it diminished. But the West

which wants to be accepted as a moviemaker

looks so nice on the big screen. Big narrative lends

How helpful is Yellowstone, and having your face

but won’t divulge how many people actually see

itself to the type of filmmaking I like to do. Where no

on a TV screen before a big audience every week,

their films.

one’s going to interfere with the tone of it by trying

to make all this happen?

I just know that people will find it now; far more

to jam it into another rating system thing where we

I don’t process it that way, but the only way that

people will see it than would have ever seen it in

can get a bigger audience if we drop down to PG-13.

would hurt is if what you’re doing isn’t good or inven-

the theater. That’s sad to me because it looks great

And then you lose your core audience if you drop it

tive. Yellowstone moves fast, and sometimes I am not

on the big screen. But seeing that story told, with a

to PG-13 because those things matter.

privy to where it’s all going. It keeps with the promise

So there are lots of ways for it to seem like the

little bit of reverse engineering on who Frank Hamer

You don’t have those discussions with Netflix.

niable. That’s what I want to do with my Western.

you make, to create images and words that you never,

actually was, was nice for the family whose reputa-

And that’s really encouraging to me, that the films

ever forget. That’s what happens when movies are at

tion was murdered along with all the people.

can speak for themselves rather than have a com-

their best. What I’m going to do is direct a lot more of

mittee speaking for them.

them in the second half of my career here.

made a buffoon by Bonnie and Clyde, to the point

Netflix sounds like a good place to do what you

Your Oscar-winning directorial debut, Dances

where his wife got a Texas lawyer and said, “We’re

are talking about. Do you think you can get it

with Wolves, went against conventions of

going to go sue Warner Bros.,” and they did.

financed as a traditional theatrical film?

limitations in subject matter and length.

He was a legendary lawman, thought of as maybe the greatest Texas Ranger, and yet he was

Costner in Dances with Wolves, which he also directed.

“I WOULD NOT LIKE TO SEE MOVIE HOUSES SHUT DOWN. BECAUSE I WOULD MISS THE CURTAIN OPENING, WHICH HAS TO ME ALWAYS BEEN A METAPHOR FOR: SOMETHING GREAT IS ABOUT TO HAPPEN.” The film’s screenwriter, John Fusco, courted the

I’m going to figure out how to get it financed. I’m

I still don’t know limitations. I think you are limited

family for years and said Hamer’s son wanted to

going to go find the right partners, or I’m going to do

only if you don’t have a great story. If you do, it’s like

go to Hollywood and settle up with Warren Beatty.

it myself because I do think it should be a feature.

you’ve got this great secret in your pocket; a twist or

Frank Hamer died a year before I was born, but

I have to look at the realities, though that’s never

an ending where you just feel, they’re going to love

they murdered his memory in that ’67 film. It’s a

really stopped me before with most of the things I

this. I’ve directed three films: The Postman, Open

convenience that we do in Hollywood sometimes,

have pushed uphill. This is a big screen epic.

Range, and Dances, and I don’t feel more equipped.

combining characters. You say, “Look, these three

Listen, I tried to get three people to direct Dances

fucking characters can be one person and we save

Should Netflix or other streamers get strong

with Wolves. I won’t say who, but they are people

paying for two rooms and two airplane tickets.”

consideration for Oscars even though the model

you know, and they all had issues.

Boy, did the scales fall from my eyes when I actu-

is for them to be streamed and consumed on

So it’s this weird pride of authorship. If a director

television screens?

hasn’t written something, they can completely go in

where this was concerned. It was a tragedy, and

Well, Roma and The Highwaymen were shot as

with a fine-toothed comb and take out everything

they paid the price for it. They settled. They knew.

movies, but Netflix is a streaming brand.

that means the most to you. I didn’t make that movie

ally saw how brutalized a real man in history was

But the family never recovered.

Listen, I’ve never been a big one to have your

long because I wanted it to be long. It’s just that it was

film come out in a few theaters, the last week of

the story of a long journey. I don’t think being on the

Disney+ is coming and in two years we’ll have

January, to qualify and see if it catches on. If you

side of the movie is exclusive from commerce, which

services from Comcast, AT&T/Warner Media,

have the goods, bring it out in September, October,

some people think. If they think that I’m making an

Apple, maybe more. What’s the appeal for sto-

November. Take your shot, or else it’s a contrivance

artsy-fartsy decision, they’re so full of shit. I’ve invested

rytellers looking to take their time, as was done

to bring it out for a small amount of time, anyway.

my own money, because I so believe in the nuance,

with both The Highwaymen and Yellowstone?

This debate about what is a movie or isn’t, I

Well, it certainly lends itself to that material that I

understand both sides, but my mind is on some-

gravitate towards: an epic kind of high adventure,

thing else: making the next great movie, if I can.

What dooms some of them? There’s a metaphor.

that’s steeped in character, and that takes a long

And getting people to see it. If you can get that to

There’s the kid fishing with the three-prong hook

while to lay out.

happen on a big screen, great, but get it made and

that catches you right in the mouth; there's the

see where it lands. Good storytelling in whatever

gillnetter; or there's a plant that dumps chemicals

form, that’s where it lays out for me.

and that gets some, and maybe one jumps at the

I have a Western saga in mind where I’d like to shoot all three as features and have them come out every three months, because it’s a continuum.

I’m not a dinosaur, and I would not like to see

and the thing that breaks with convention.

Movies are like salmon heading upstream.

wrong time and a bear gets it. Movies are like this.

It’s four [movies], and then let it go to TV, and I

movie houses shut down. Because I would miss the

So many things can affect a movie, and all you have

don’t see why it wouldn’t even be thought of as a

curtain opening, which has to me always been a

to do to prevent that is you believe so much in your

premiere there because all the groups of people

metaphor for: something great is about to happen. I

story that you won’t let those things affect it. ★

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mc34.com/tv CONTACT: OBie O’Brien oobrien@mc34.com 646-293-1050

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CONGRATULATIONS! BEST FILM AMY HOPPER “PARENTS INC.” BEST DIRECTOR CARL HANSEN “I/O” BEST ACTOR NICOLE EVANS “HUMAN HELPER” BEST AWARENESS CAMPAGIN RACHEL HANDLER “THE VANISHED”

2019

CASTS AND CREWS OF ALL 71 FILMS FOUNDER: NIC NOVICKI MENTORS: PAM DIXON • PHIL LORD • JOHN PENOTTI • TIFFANY SMITH-ANOA’I JUDGES: ALICE AUSTEN • NICOLE CASTRO • KAT COIRO • JENNI GOLD • KEVIN JORDAN • STEVEN MARTINI RJ MITTE • MARK POVINELLI • RICHARD PROPES • JENN WILSON • DANNY WOODBURN • KAITLYN YANG

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GALLERY O N A P R I L 7 TH I N L O S A N G E L E S , D E A D L I N E ’S T H E CO N T E N D E R S E M MYS C E L E B R AT E D T H E H O T T E S T S TA R S , S H O W R U N N E R S A N D K E Y C R E AT I V E S I N T E L E V I S I O N .

PHOTOGRAPHS BY MICHAEL BUCKNER

D E A D L I N E .C O M / AWA R D S L I N E

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SARA GILBERT THE CONNERS

Last year’s reincarnation of beloved sitcom Roseanne may have stumbled in the wake of its titular star’s unfortunate Twitter storm, but like a phoenix from the ashes, The Conners—a reboot of a reboot—valiantly rose to take its place.

Having gotten her start on the original 1990s Roseanne, Sara Gilbert is pleased The Conners has been renewed by ABC for a second season.

“We’ve always felt that the middle class in middle America are people that we love to represent and whose stories we love to tell,” she said. “We’re excited we’re going to be able to continue doing that and seeing where these characters go.”

The decision to keep pushing with the show after Roseanne’s demise wasn’t taken lightly, she said. “We wanted to make sure that there was a show to be made, and that we felt that we could make a show that we could be proud of. I think we all had this burning desire to finish telling these stories.”

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MAHERSHALA ALI

TRUE DETECTIVE When creator Nic Pizzolatto was putting together Season 3 of HBO’s True Detective, Mahershala Ali pitched himself for the lead role—a suggestion that Pizzolatto loved.

“To ask somebody to make that significant of a shift and totally rethink your story was the first thing to accomplish,” Ali said.

He also didn’t want the character to be defined by his race.

Having been an actor since 1993, this, shockingly, was Ali’s first lead. Not only that, but the finale aired the same night he won the Best Supporting Actor Oscar for Green Book—his second—and Ali found he wasn’t ready to watch that very last episode.

“For that to align with the Oscar night, it was a lot for me to take in,” he said. “I felt too attached to it. I found that I had to give myself some time so that I can watch as objectively as possible and with less emotion and less stakes involved. To come to the end like that, I just needed a moment. It’s beyond gratitude.

There’s a lot to take in.”

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CHRISTINA HENDRICKS & MATTHEW WEINER THE ROMANOFFS

Former Mad Men collaborators Christina Hendricks and Matthew Weiner reunited for his eight-part Amazon anthology series The Romanoffs—an innovative, star-studded collection of separate stories linked by the Romanoff family name, and described by Weiner as, “these sort of jewels, thematically related to each other.” The stories are, Weiner said, “very unusual and very intuitive.”

Musing on how our “collective national low self-esteem” drives us to seek self-importance through our genealogy at sites like 23andme.com, Weiner explained the idea to an American audience using the Kennedy analogy. “If I told you I was related to the Kennedys, you’d understand what this show is all about.” Shot in several different countries, with different languages, Weiner hoped to highlight how connected we are beyond borders.

For Hendricks, working with Weiner again was a no-brainer. “Basically I begged Matt to do the show.” she said. “He said, ‘I’m writing a new show,’ and I said, ‘I’ll do anything.’ He sent me the script and I read it and [had] goosebumps on my skin.” However, playing opposite the legendary Isabelle Huppert was an intimidating experience at first.

“I was terrified. I was familiar with her work but I started cramming before I was going to Prague to work with her.” Hendricks said she dissolved into a giggling, “literally like piddling,” state when she met Huppert, but actually Huppert was absolutely charming as it turned out. She was, “so cool and nice, and when we were on set she was just so collaborative and kind,” Hendricks said.

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STEPHAN JAMES HOMECOMING

In HBO’s psychological thriller series Homecoming, Stephan James is a PTSD-stricken soldier opposite Julia Roberts’ caseworker while sinister forces are at work behind the scenes.

Despite its “dystopian universe” setting, James said, for him, the role was “more about the recovery of these young men and the PTSD and the trauma from which they’re recovering, so I tried to keep it in that space.”

Although he’d received acclaim for the role of Fonny in Barry Jenkins’ If Beale Street Could Talk, James found auditioning opposite Roberts a daunting experience. “I had so many lines,” he said. “Then I found out I was reading opposite Julia Roberts and I googled her and flipped out because I thought, ‘Oh shit, that’s Julia Roberts.’”

But she turned out to be reassuringly down-to-earth and friendly. “She was so sweet the first time I met her, and was able to knock down all these walls.

She’s Pretty Woman but she’s also a normal person.”

MAGGIE GYLLENHAAL THE DEUCE

In the ’70s-set HBO series The Deuce, Maggie Gyllenhaal is porn star-turneddirector Candy. Her character flips the notion that porn is bad on its head, when she uses her situation to gain power and artistic traction. “I think for Candy, she gets told ‘no’ all the time.

She doesn’t have the luxury to wallow and feel bad about it,” Gyllenhaal said.

“She just keeps moving forward. For her, that’s all she has.”

Gyllenhaal is also a producer, a role that felt especially necessary, given the nature of the show. “I was being asked to play a sex worker and take my clothes off all the time,” she said.

Gyllenhaal approached creators George Pelecanos and David Simon. “I said, ‘I hope you’ll agree to allowing me to be a collaborator with you.’ That really has been the coolest thing about this, the relationships that you make and the collaboration you can have over many years with somebody.”

JOEY KING & PATRICIA ARQUETTE T H E AC T

Hulu’s true crime show The Act recreates the real lives of Dee Dee Blanchard and her longsuffering daughter Gypsy. As Dee Dee, Patricia Arquette fakes extreme illness in Joey King’s Gypsy, shaving her head to emulate the side effects of chemotherapy, putting her through multiple surgeries and forcing her into a wheelchair she didn’t need to use—all to get attention as the doting mom of a sick child.

“If Gypsy was not in Dee Dee’s life, Dee Dee would be no one. She would not exist,” Arquette said.

“It’s a case of extreme codependency mixed with extreme narcissism. When Gypsy wins the Child of the Year award, her whole speech is basically about Dee Dee.” Finally, as it becomes clear Dee Dee has Munchausen Syndrome by Proxy, Gypsy finds her way out by murdering her mother.

An actor since the age of four, King shaved her head for the role and emulated Gypsy’s own highpitched voice. “I don’t think I would work much besides this if I talked like that,” King joked. “I think that it’s hard to believe that something like this could actually happen to people. I think the most remarkable part of the story is that Gypsy got out, because Munchausen by Proxy is more common than we think, but we usually don’t hear about it because the victims don’t usually make it out, they usually die at the hand of their caretaker.

“I think what you get while watching our show is you can see the thought process that Gypsy goes through, but through it all you don’t lose the fact that Gypsy actually does love her mom.”

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RICHARD MADDEN B O DYG UA R D

Having starred in Game of Thrones, Richard Madden could have found it tough to shrug off that sci-fi fantasy mantle, but then came Netflix’s Bodyguard.

Madden plays David Budd, a PTSD-affected military veteran now working as a Police Protection Officer appointed to guard the Home Secretary Julia Montague (Keeley Hawes)—a turn that won him a Golden Globe earlier this year. “I did something like this which I didn’t expect to do so well,” he said, “and it’s lovely to be recognized as something totally different from furs and swords.”

The story deals with terrorist threats in London, and underhand internal government operations, leaving the vehemently ethical Budd horribly conflicted. “What really blew me away was this moral gray zone that all of the characters live in,” he said, “and that that can change regularly with the reasons of why they do things and if they are good or bad. This man is suffering severe PTSD, in denial about it, has a really strong character and wants to do the right thing.”

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PRESENTS

SAVE THE DATE SATURDAY, OCTOBER 7, 2019 9:00AM - 6:00PM

HAM YARD HOTEL 1 HAM YARD, LONDON

F O R M O R E I N F O R M AT I O N , P L E A S E V I S I T :

ContendersLondon2019.Deadline.com

CHUCK LORRE & MICHAEL DOUGLAS T H E KO M I N S KY M E T H O D

When Chuck Lorre sat down to write The Kominsky Method his intent was to explore “the minutiae of what happens as we get older,” he said.

Centering the series’ action on Michael Douglas’ Sandy, an aging actor-turned-acting coach, and Alan Arkin, as his agent and friend, Lorre said, “It was a labor of love. It just felt like the right thing to do, to write about getting older and what that’s like. And I’ve just been thrilled with the response. It’s been amazing.”

Lorre also enjoyed digging into the chasm between Sandy and his young students. “I like the idea that Sandy’s character is surrounded by another generation, and the gap between their perception is something I wanted to write about as well.” This is the first show Lorre has done in 30 years without a live studio audience. “This was an opportunity to just write and trust it, which was difficult,” he said. “That was a big leap for me.”

It was a leap for Douglas too; his first return to the small screen since The Streets of San Francisco in the ’70s. “When I read the first script,” Douglas recalled, “I said, ‘This is funny. I can relate to a whole lot of this stuff.’” The script was so great, Douglas said, “it belittles most of the stuff that I get to see in feature films.”

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THE

MOST INSPIRING

DAYS CANNES XR

14 – 19 May - Palais -1, aisle 14 NEXT

14 – 23 May - Palais -1, aisle 18 ANIMATION DAY

19 May - 9:30 - Olympia 1 FANTASTIC FANATICS MIXER

19 May - 18:00 - Plages des Palmes DOC DAY

21 May - 9:30 - Plage Gray d’Albion - 15:30 - Olympia 1 DOC LOVERS MIXER SHOOT THE BOOK

21 May - 10:30 - Palais +4, Ambassadeurs FESTIVALS & SALES AGENTS MIXER

22 May - 18:00 - Plages des Palmes www.marchedufilm.com/en/global-events

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©Alexandra Fleurantin / Marché du Film

21 May - 18:00 - Plages des Palmes

4/30/19 11:39 PM

JANET MOCK POSE

FX’s Pose has made history as the first show to feature a largely transgender series-regular cast, and the largest LGBTQ cast ever in a scripted show.

Co-created by Steven Canals, Ryan Murphy and Brad Falchuk and set in the 1980s, it explores New York’s African-American and Latino ball culture.

Said writer Janet Mock, “It’s about telling the truth and giving people a chance to see the humanity in the truth and the realness through storytelling. What’s so special about Pose and the team that Ryan Murphy has assembled, as well as Steven and Brad Falchuk, [is that] they brought on people who live the experience.”

Mock, like many of the cast and crew, had almost no history of television work, but has been a runaway success on the show. “It shows in the exhibition of the fact that despite it never being done before, it’s possible. If you give people a seat at the table, if you empower them to use their voices and experiences, then that is more than enough.”

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MARCHÉ DU FILM

LOVES

FESTIVALS MARCHÉ DU FILM OPENING NIGHT - 15 May

Shanghai International Film Festival DOC TALKS & DOC DAY - 17 to 21 May

CPH:DOX, DOK Leipzig, IDFA, Visions du Réel, Doc Alliance FRONTIERES PLATFORM - 18 & 19 May

Fantasia International Film Festival GOES TO CANNES - 18 to 20 May

Annecy, HAF (Hong Kong), Los Cabos, Málaga, New Horizons’ (Poland), Thessaloniki FANTASTIC 7 - 19 May

Bucheon, Cairo, Guadalajara, Macao, Sitges, SXSW, Toronto MIXER FESTIVALS - 22 May

Film Freeway Best Emerging Festival Programmer and more than 1300 registered programmers attending! www.marchedufilm.com/en/global-events

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©Alexandra Fleurantin / Marché du Film

CINANDO AWARDS - 22 May

4/30/19 11:40 PM

JEAN-MARC VALLÉE & AMY ADAMS SHARP OBJECTS

When Amy Adams first read the script for HBO’s Sharp Objects, based on Gillian Flynn’s novel, “It terrified me and I thought, Yeah I should probably explore this.” But for Adams, who also served as EP, the real clincher was when Jean-Marc Vallée agreed to direct. “I think that’s why we have such a unique vision on the show,” Adams said. “He’s a singular voice in that way. We were really lucky because he had just come off Big Little Lies and I know he was tired.”

Playing troubled reporter Camille Preaker, on assignment in her home town, Adams said of the challenge: “I think her relationship with her family and her history, her past, is very complicated, and the town itself has its own history that needs to be resolved.”

At first, Vallée was concerned by the lack of narration. “Marti Noxon and Gillian were the two creative writing forces behind it, and I was surprised that they didn’t want to go with a voice-over because this is [central to] the book,” he said. “It’s so powerful. It’s her angle on the world. So at the beginning I thought, There’s no voiceover; that’s suicide, no? They’re going to compare the series to the book and we are going to get fucked.’”

But Noxon and Flynn made it work. “They started to use this way of going back and forth on the page,” Vallée said. “These flashbacks, and blending them in a way. And then on the set we decided to push that further.”

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4/25/19 1:14 PM

Life meets style.

Introducing the first-ever Hyundai Palisade with available seating for 8.

Pre-production 2020 Palisade shown with optional features. Actual production model may vary. Hyundai is a registered trademark of Hyundai Motor Company. Hyundai model names are registered trademarks of Hyundai Motor America. All rights reserved. Š2019 Hyundai Motor America.

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4/25/19 1:12 PM