PRESENTS JUNE 7, 2017 EMMY PREVIEW/COMEDY
SNL’S GOLDEN YEAR TRUMP’S REALITY TV PRESIDENCY Plus:
KEVIN BACON TIG NOTARO LOUIE ANDERSON AMY POEHLER OUR LADY J
THE GOOD
DONALD With Atlanta, Donald Glover has forged his own path and delivered the comedy hit of the year.
DEADLINE.COM/AWARDSLINE
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PRESENTS
G EN ERA L MA NAG E R & C HI EF R EV ENUE O FFICE R
Stacey Farish EDI TOR
Joe Utichi C R EAT I V E DIR ECTO R
Craig Edwards
AS S I STA N T E D ITO R
Matt Grobar
DEA DL I NE CO - E D ITO RS - IN- CHIE F
Nellie Andreeva Mike Fleming Jr.
AWA R DS ED ITO R & CO LUM NIST
Pete Hammond
DEA DL I NE CO NTR IBUTO RS
Peter Bart Anita Busch Anthony D’Alessandro Greg Evans Lisa de Moraes Patrick Hipes David Lieberman Diana Lodderhose Amanda N’Duka Dominic Patten Erik Pedersen Denise Petski David Robb Nancy Tartaglione V I DEO P ROD UCE RS
David Janove Andrew Merrill
C HA I R MA N & CEO
Jay Penske
V I C E C HA I RM A N
Gerry Byrne
C HI EF OP ERATING O FFICE R
George Grobar
EX EC U T I V E V ICE PR ES ID E NT, B U S I NES S A FFA IRS A ND G ENERA L CO UNS E L
Todd Greene
EX EC U T I V E V ICE PR ES ID E NT, B U S I NES S D EV E LO PM E NT
Craig Perreault
5-12
FIRST TAKE Trevor Noah finds his groove, Beverly Goldberg speaks, Trump’s reality TV presidency.
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COVER STORY Donald Glover is riding high with the success of Atlanta.
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FEATURE STORY Celebrating a banner year for Saturday Night Live.
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THE DIALOGUE: EMMY CONTENDERS Kevin Bacon Tig Notaro Louie Anderson Amy Poehler Our Lady J
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FLASH MOB Gold Derby Emmy Season Kickoff Party, AwardsLine Screening Series
S EN I OR V I C E PR ES ID E NT, FINA NCE
Ken DelAlcazar
V I C E P R ES ID E NT, CR EATIV E
Nelson Anderson
V I C E P R ES ID E NT, TV
Laura Lubrano
V I C E P R ES ID E NT, FILM
Carra Fenton
S EN I OR ACCO UNT EXECUTIV ES , T EL EV I S I ON
Brianna Hamburger Tiffany Windju ACCOU N T MA NAGE R
London Sanders
A D SA L ES CO O R D INATO RS
Kristina Mazzeo Malik Simmons
P RODU CT I ON D IR ECTO R
Natalie Longman
DI ST R I B U T IO N D IR ECTO R
Michael Petre
A DV ERT I S I N G INQ UIR IES
Stacey Farish
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ON THE COVER Donald Glover photographed for Deadline by David Vintiner at The May Fair Hotel, London. ON THIS PAGE Kevin Bacon photographed for Deadline by John Russo
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THE ACTOR’S SIDE Intriguing one-on-one conversations between Deadline’s awards editor and leading actors of film & television new videos every wednesday WATCH NOW AT DEADLINE.COM
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Beverly Goldberg’s Fave First Lady
p. 8
| Designing Grace & Frankie p. 10 | Trump’s Grasp on Reality (TV) p. 12
Great KNIGHT The Daily Show host Trevor Noah on his mission with the late-night legend BY MATT GROBAR
TAKING OVER HOSTING DUTIES on The Daily Show in 2015, Trevor Noah led his show to its most-watched week ever last month—a testament to the balance the host strikes between entertainment and political conversation, and his forthright approach to the job. Noah’s Daily Show continues to evolve, calling out “BS” in the world of politics with the understanding that what Noah is presenting is a particular point of view.
PHOTOGRAPH BY
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Dan Doperalski
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pre-tapes, we play around with the format. The way we shoot our field pieces has changed. Stylistically, the show has a different approach to telling a story. Those are small changes that happen under the hood that, over time, when you look back, you would see a big change, but I always think the best change is incremental. What is the responsibility of someone in your position, in terms of balancing entertainment with serious political discussion? Your correspondent, Hasan Minhaj, commented recently on the line between the two, and the damaging effects of snark in the media. I think the biggest thing that separates us from the news is the fact that we don’t hide our intentions, nor our position. I tell you how I feel. With Hasan’s piece, what was great is he was talking about, if news wishes to portray itself as unbiased, it should act accordingly, and imbuing the news with personality and snark doesn’t really work to that end, unfortunately. It feeds into the narrative that
“WE’VE BECOME A SHOW THAT IS LESS ABOUT MEDIA CRITICISM, AND MORE A SHOW THAT PUTS FORWARD AN ARGUMENT, AGAINST OR IN FAVOR OF CERTAIN ISSUES.”
Trump and his supporters claim about the news—that they are biased against Trump, as opposed to being objective—which I feel the news is, in many ways, but the personality of the host sometimes overrides that objectivity. People may be getting the news from us, but maybe it’s because we come in with the disclaimer of, “Hey, this is how we feel about things.” We’re giving you our dissection of what is happening, so that’s, I think, what separates us. The responsibility, I think, is differ-
factors—most importantly, the fact
We’ve become a show that is less
news should be to inform you. Our
hit its most-watched week ever
that people now care. Some would
about media criticism, and more a
job is to give context to the informa-
last month. How does that feel,
say it’s the Trump effect, but it’s
show that puts forward an argu-
tion that you now have.
and to what do you attribute this
rather the effect of people really car-
ment, against or in favor of certain
success?
ing about what’s happening in the
issues. In many ways, the show is still
Certain late-night hosts seem to
It’s nice to know that something
news, and what’s going on in their
evolving. I think to get away com-
express a joy in being a thorn in
we create with love and passion is
politics, now more than ever.
pletely from the DNA of The Daily
Trump’s side, as he repeatedly
Show with Jon Stewart in a year and
lashes out at the media. Is this
a half would be unrealistic.
attitude reflective of you or your
something that people appreciate; that it’s connecting with audiences,
From your perspective, how has
and especially growing diverse
the show evolved since you ini-
audiences.
tially took over hosting duties?
show. We have a lot more sketch-
No, not necessarily. I don’t define
I think it’s evolved in its point of view.
based elements, we do a lot of
myself by whether or not Donald
I attribute it to a combination of
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The goal is to steadily change the
approach to the job?
DA N D OP E RALS K I
ent. If I put it this way, the job of the The Daily Show with Trevor Noah
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// CHARACTER STUDY Trump hates me or loves me, or whether I’m fighting against him or not, because I’d like to think I exist beyond him. I’m existing in my world. My world happens to clash with his on occasion, and that’s part of what I’m doing. That’s an opinion; that’s a point of view. I’m not trying to be a thorn in his side. I’m trying to be a host of a show that’s constantly calling out BS and seeking out the facts, and if the facts happen to be a thorn in his side, then that’s a byproduct of what we’re doing. Having grown up in South Africa—outside of the context of the United States—what perspective does your background bring to your work on the show? One thing that informs my perspective is that I understand the reality and the possibility of a dictatorship forming from a democracy, which is something most Americans don’t think is possible. Now, I am not an alarmist. I know that American institutions are stronger. I know that there are foundations that have been put in place to prevent this, but that doesn’t mean that all of these ideas are impossible. Donald Trump is the stress test of America’s democracy right now. Over time, you will come to realize that you have many buttresses in place designed to prevent against it, but you also realize that there were some fortifications that could have been improved. For instance, being able to
BEVERLY GOLDBERG
As the world of comedy is preoccupied with Donald Trump (see our other pages) The Goldbergs matriarch explains to Deadline her obsession with another President’s First Lady
installing a series of people who have your best interest at heart before the country’s best interest, is a troubling trend. To see both houses of Congress towing the party line before the country line, that causes concern, and America can quickly get to the place where your only holdout is the courts. That’s how South Africa is to a certain extent now. We rely on our courts to be our final stop, but that gives me perspective, because I know it’s possible. I know people say it can’t happen in America, but that’s what they said about Donald Trump. ★
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A lot of people are confused about your obsession with Nancy Reagan— they just don’t get it. Why is she so important to you? As a First Lady, she does exactly what she’s supposed to do. She looks adoringly at her man, and she looks chic—Adolfo suits and separates; top drawer. And by the way, I vote what my husband tells me to vote. He has a list called “Murray’s Picks,” I take it into the booth with me; civic duty, blobbity blah. I wonder about her parenting. Don’t do drugs—I hate drugs so fucking much, it’s not even funny. I don’t like them. I know that’s controversial: I don’t like drugs. Her whole thing is, “Just Say No.” Is that all you want to say? That speaks to me as a mom, right there. But that is an incomplete thought; it should be: “Just Say No, It All Looks Delicious, Thank You, But My Mother Will Kick My Ass.” Isn’t it just easier not to do drugs? Isn’t it easier to just clean your room when I ask you to clean it, rather than me cleaning your room? That’s how I threaten my kids—“You’re not going to clean your room, I’ll clean it, and I’ll find what you’re hiding, because I know you’re hiding something.” —Channeled through Wendi McLendon-Covey
M IC H A EL BUC KN E R
fire the head of the FBI, and then
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CHARTED TERRITORY
Gold Derby’s Emmy Odds At press time, here is how Gold Derby’s experts ranked the Emmy chances in the Comedy Series Actor and Actress races. Get up-to-date rankings and make your own predictions at GoldDerby.com
LEAD ACTOR COMEDY SERIES
SoCal SANCTUARY
Grace and Frankie production designer Devorah Herbert discusses the process of designing a brand new home for Sol and Robert in Season 3
the case in Season 3 of Netflix original series Grace and Frankie, as production designer Devorah Herbert confronted the challenge of designing a new home for newlywed couple Sol and Robert. Approaching this new set piece, Herbert contemplated a design for a “sanctuary” that would honor the distinct personalities of each of the men, while setting the tone for the future of their life together, in stark contrast to the “chill” at the heart of Robert and Grace’s former home. “We decided that the house should marry two different architectural styles at the same time,” Herbert explains. “We would use the bones of a traditional Spanish Colonial, which is very emblematic of Southern California; also, traditional, like Robert is.” “Then, we decided that the house would’ve been remodeled completely,” she continues, “almost like a metaphor for how they remodeled their own lives.” –Matt Grobar
THE NEW NORMAL
The Handmaid’s Tale costume designer Ane Crabtree on designing the instantly iconic handmaid’s garb Approaching Hulu’s dystopian drama series The Handmaid’s Tale, costume designer Ane Crabtree spent time thinking about ways in which costumes can be used to subjugate and oppress, as embodied in the visually powerful costume of the handmaid. She looked to real-life cults, as well as Margaret Atwood’s novel, for inspiration. “I thought about what happens in prison—they remove your laces so you can’t harm yourself. I took all the laces from their boots, and sewed the grommets down,” Crabtree explains. “There were also these waist detractors, for lack of a better description. It’s a take
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on a Japanese obi or corset that is meant to hide the waist—the sexual part of a woman—and yet, what it does is it emphasizes their boobs and their hips.”
1
Donald Glover Atlanta
10/3
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Jeffrey Tambor Transparent
4/1
3
Anthony Anderson Black-ish
11/2
4
Aziz Ansari Master of None
6/1
5
Thomas Middleditch Silicon Valley
11/1
LEAD ACTRESS COMEDY SERIES
AS CHARACTERS CHANGE, SO, TOO, DO THE SETS. Such was
That was all an intentional part of the design, demonstrating Crabtree’s true loyalties, which lie with the oppressed. “The commanders are foiled, while trying to control something,” she says. “I did that for the women.” One of the biggest challenges with the handmaid’s costume was finding the perfect shade of red for the cloak, a process that took time. “Reds are probably the hardest thing to translate on film in the frame,” Crabtree notes. After thorough investigation, though, she landed on blood red. “There would be this beautiful visual river of blood, of these handmaids traveling,” she says, of her visual concept. “Ultimately, what was incredible and miraculous was that that red actually looked good on any skin tone.” –Matt Grobar
ODDS
ODDS
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Julia Louis-Dreyfus Veep
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Tracee Ellis Ross Black-ish
4/1
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Issa Rae Insecure
7/1
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Lily Tomlin Grace and Frankie
9/1
5
Ellie Kemper Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt
9/1
SUPPORTING ACTOR COMEDY SERIES
ODDS
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3/1
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Louie Anderson Baskets
9/2
3
Tony Hale Veep
9/2
4
Tituss Burgess Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt
9/1
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Brian Tyree Henry Atlanta
10/1
SUPPORTING ACTRESS COMEDY SERIES
ODDS
1
Kate McKinnon Saturday Night Live
3/1
2
Judith Light Transparent
5/1
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Anna Chlumsky Veep
5/1
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Rita Moreno One Day at a Time
7/1
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Andrea Martin Great News
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COLU M N Nielsen ratings, showing President Obama’s first, historic inauguration had drawn a larger crowd. The following month, at the National Prayer Breakfast, Trump asked visiting dignitaries and religious leaders to join him in prayer—for Arnold Schwarzenegger’s Celebrity Apprentice ratings, Trump being one of the show’s producers. More recently, Trump boasted Spicer’s press briefings are the most watched thing on daytime TV. 9. Trump reflexively brawls like a reality show participant. He missed few opportunities to whack Schwarzenegger’s performance on Celebrity Apprentice, even though he had a financial interest in the show’s success, as producer. In January, Trump savaged Schwarzenegger’s performance and called himself a “ratings machine”, tweeting: “Wow the ratings are in and Arnold Schwarzenegger got ‘swamped’ (or destroyed) by comparison to the ratings machine,
TRUMP IDOL
DJT.” Schwarzenegger said his longtime friend was angry because
The nation’s first reality TV President is living up to his billing
he had not voted for Trump and
BY L I SA D E M O R A E S
told others to do the same, adding that he would not return to the show, if asked, because the Trump
ONCE POLITICAL PUNDITS
had no idea what “covfefe” meant.
White House Communications
connection was toxic to viewers.
RECOVERED THEIR BREATH
Hillary Clinton speculated it was a
Director Mike Dubka quit after just
Trump hit back that he did not
after Election Night, they forecast
message to the Russians; Sen. Al
three months, multiple people
quit—he was fired.
Donald Trump would be America’s
Franken explained it was Yiddish for
approached for the gig have replied
first made-for-TV president and
“I gotta go to bed now.” But White
“nope,” and a veteran from W’s
teases about a big Paris Climate
his White House would resemble a
House Press Secretary Sean Spicer
administration advised prospective
Accord In-or-Out reveal were
reality TV show, chock-a-bloc with
insisted, when asked, the tweet was
replacements, via Mediaite, they’d
straight out of Ryan Seacrest’s
loud, scripted, populist brawling.
entirely understood by Trump and a
come out of Trump’s administration,
American Idol “after the break!”
They were right. Four months in,
handful of his confidantes.
“with your reputation in tatters,
playbook.
are reveling in the chaos. Let us, then, count the ways in which President Donald Trump is running the White House along reality TV lines: 1. He’s got a cabinet full of rich guys—like Shark Tank. 2. He has “the best words”—like Newlyweds star Jessica Simpson.
3. His fashionista daughter and
your credibility utterly destroyed,
11. Like the Kardashians or Dr.
rich son-in-law are always in the
and your job prospects close to nil
Oz, Ivanka has her product lines
picture, in the best Kardashians
unless you want a low level CNN
on the side, which the president’s
tradition.
contributorship.”
campaign-manager-turned-adviser
4. He revels in ice cream
7. Trump gets much of his news
Kellyanne Conway happily endorsed
and flat-screen excesses when
from Fox & Friends; people trying to
on a cable news network. As
entertaining guests at the White
get his attention have been known
President of the United States, Trump
House, in the manner of Real
to get themselves booked on his
attacked Nordstrom’s for dropping
Housewives of Fill-in-the-Blank.
fave shows.
Ivanka’s line, citing sagging sales.
5. His grasp of history (he said
8. He is obsessed with Nielsen
12. Trump seems to prefer to
Most recently, he middle-of-the-
Andrew Jackson, who died in 1845,
ratings, which forced White House
operate within the confines of a
night tweeted a six-word sentence
opposed the Civil War, which broke
Press Secretary Sean Spicer to
“Winter White House,” aka Mar-a-
fragment: “Despite the constant
out in 1861; he mistook Frederick
hold a post-inauguration presser
Lago, or his “Summer White House,”
negative press covfefe”. And, faster
Douglass as being among the living)
and insist, of Trump’s inauguration,
aka Trump National Golf Club in
than you can say “Ambien Tweeting”
is Bad Jeopardy.
facts notwithstanding: “This
Bedminster, NJ. Very Big Brother.
the hashtag #covfefe began to
6. His relationship with his
was the largest audience to ever
But, maybe most disturbing
trend worldwide on Twitter. Hours
Communications Office is straight
witness an inauguration—period”
of all: Donald Trump is starting to
later, he tweeted to suggest he
out of Hell’s Kitchen. Most recently,
after press reported on the actual
sound like Alec Baldwin. ★
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RE X /S H U T T E RSTO CK
viewers and TV news networks still
10. His tantalizing any-day-now
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THE
RE X /S H U T T ERSTOC K
PODCAST
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Photograph by Gabriel Goldberg
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You seem like one of those people who
How has being in London led to that?
carries their world with them—very
Oh, you know, Brits have a ton of muse-
confident, very distinct; is that how
ums. Britain is really particular about its
you feel and has it always been the
history. Everything’s old here, obviously, but
case?
everyday people are really into the history
I’m very confident in my point of view.
of things. You can even talk to people who
’Cause I think that that’s all you can really
don’t really fuck with the monarchy and
have. I’m never really going to know what
they’re like, “Well I don’t want to get rid of
anybody else is going through, so it’s just
it though. I think it’s important because it’s
kind of your job to be expressive with your
a history thing.” It’s funny to me, because
point of view. So I’m very confident in the
American history is just a couple hundred
way I see things. But I think the balance
years. So I think seeing how it works over
of being, I guess, a good person is actively
here has kind of opened my eyes to that.
looking for and through other people’s points of view. And to make sure that it’s
Brits are happy with the Queen
balanced, because otherwise you become
because currently the idea of having a
a really stagnant and, I think, bad person.
President seems terrifying.
We’re kind of going through a point
Yeah [laughs]. It’s funny to be over here
in time where, if you don’t want to hear
during that. Hearing people’s conversa-
anybody else’s point of view, you really
tions. People tend to be more interested in
don’t have to. So I think it’s about the
it over here than they are over there. I was
company you keep. People used to know
watching Gogglebox [a UK reality show in
people who were smart enough to argue
which people react to television shows and
the opposite—like, they used to actively
the news] and learning a little bit about
hang around with people who have oppos-
British politics. It’s more interesting. I know
ing points of view. I don’t know if that’s the
far less than I feel like the normal person
case anymore.
here does about American politics.
It feels like people are looking for reas-
Is that the way things are or a con-
surance rather than looking for the
scious decision to not overly engage
truth.
with that stuff? The news can be a bit
Yeah. I mean, I think that’s just human
overwhelming.
nature. But I think now we have so much
I don’t know. I think there’s a generation of
information people are slowly starting to
Americans coming up who truly consider
realize, like, “Oh anything can be true if
themselves metropolitan. I don’t know
you want it to be true.” Like there’s always
if that was the case before. I think since
somebody out there—because there’s
European countries are so close together,
money in it. There’s money in information
it forces Brits to be interested in that.
now. There will eventually be places where
Brexit affects everything over here. That’s
you’ll buy things based solely on the fact
going to affect everyone. So I think it just
that you give them data. That will come
forces you to see yourself a little smaller. A
soon. Data’s really important and it always
smaller part of the bigger thing.
has been. Being in London has really taught me how important history is. Just having
We really should talk about Atlanta. I
information of the past. It helps you pre-
thought it was terrific, which is fortu-
dict the future, which is all we really have
nate, right? It’d be awkward if I didn’t.
as, you know, humans.
Yeah, I think it’d actually be a good interview.
D O N A L D G LO V E R P H OT O G R A P H E D AT T H E M AY FA I R H O T E L , L O N D O N
SCREENWRITER-MUSICIAN-DIRECTORCOMEDIAN-ACTOR, DONALD GLOVER IS RESPONSIBLE FOR A WORLD SHORTAGE IN HYPHENS. A household face after a starring role in NBC’s Community, he was also a name-to-watch behind the camera, for writing on 30 Rock. Movie audiences have seen him in Magic Mike XXL and The Martian. Yet another demographic knows him as Childish Gambino, a Grammy-nominated musician whose eclectic albums deserve way more time than the comedic moniker may make you believe. For Glover there is no side project— the music, the writing, the TV, the acting, it’s all him, it’s all about story. Still, though he’s not likely to favor one medium over another, or to choose one creation above all, you could argue Atlanta is his greatest achievement. He created, co-writes, stars in (and occasionally directs) the FX series about a college dropout trying to navigate life in the music industry of Atlanta, Georgia. Earnest “Earn” Marks (Glover) spots the potential of his cousin Alfred “Paper Boi” Miles (Brian Tyree Henry) and sees an opportunity to improve his lot—and that of his on/off girlfriend and his daughter. Dealing with music, celebrity, race, TV, stereotypes, ambition and failure, Atlanta is prescient without being preachy—and really, at its core, it’s about a young man looking for direction; for purpose. Glover won the Golden Globe for Best Actor— and the show picked up Best TV Series Comedy or Musical, as well as recognition from the PGA and WGA, among a host of others. Season 2 won’t air until 2018, though, as Glover is now in a galaxy far, far away. Deadline talks with him on an unfeasibly sunny day in London, where he is shooting Disney’s untitled Han Solo pic, the second in the Star Wars anthology series of side-stories, after Rogue One. He’ll play Lando Calrissian, Han Solo’s old friend and fellow space smuggler, first made famous by Billy Dee Williams in The Empire Strikes Back. Glover is having a blast. 33 and thoughtful, he’s quick to laugh and ask questions back—perhaps pointing to a secret to his success: he’s forever inquisitive.
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If I hated it?
The Godfather and The Sopranos, and in
If you hated it, it would be probably a super
my show we dive into that more and more
interesting interview. I feel like interview-
as we go on, just like what business is, and
ers can’t really do that nowadays. I feel
music. Music is something that is truly
like people would feel very awkward about
ethereal and just joyful, but also it’s the
doing it. Like, how many show creators or
music business, and that’s really the oppo-
whatever could defend their show do you
site. How those things intertwine is almost
think?
the heart of the show, like: What’s personal and what isn’t?
I think a lot of people take criticism really personally, because it feels
Your character, Earn, is in a position
like you’re criticizing their child—and
where he has to be looking for oppor-
that’s not the case. You’ve spent a lot
tunity, but he also doesn’t want to be
of time on it, but it’s not you.
a vampire.
Right. But it is personal. I don’t mean
I mean, he understands he kind of is, he
this show specifically—I just mean art in
just doesn’t want to be called out for it. I
general. It’s a personal thing if you’re doing
think he thinks he’s too smart for that or
it correctly. It’s not like something com-
too cool for that. And I think he slowly fig-
pletely objective that you’re just bringing
ures out he’s not as clever as he thinks, as
into the world. Hopefully if you’re making
far as this is concerned. ’Cause his back is
art it is personal on some level. But I also
up against the wall. It’s hard to act like your
see it as a conversation with the audi-
back isn’t against the wall when it is.
ence—like something that seems trite and heavy-handed just needs to be in the right
That’s when you find out who you
place and right time. 50 years before, or 50
really are.
years after, you show it to a different group
Yeah, that’s when you do all the worst or
of society and it’ll hopefully taste differ-
best things, when you have no choice.
ent. You know what I’m saying? I think it
Like, you know, I’ve seen people do really
changes like that a little bit, too. But I do
heinous things when they thought, “I was
want it to be or deal with the world the
think some people do take it personally. I
going to die.” I’ve seen people do really
way it is,” and that really troubled me,
think that’s because it’s tied to commerce.
amazing things when they thought they
because I realized I was dealing with
If it’s something bad then then you can’t
were going to die. But that’s when you
the world in a fantasy way. I think most
make money off of it, then that becomes
really are who you are.
people live in the land of good intentions, rather than the land of what is
super personal, I think, for people. And then, if you get through that,
actually happening and what they’re
Because it feels like a threat to your
you have to live with the knowledge
actually doing.
livelihood?
of what kind of person you actually
Exactly.
might be.
Right. That is the problem. The top one
Yeah. But I think that’s the weird thing
percent, they have the resources to build
And that then becomes primal.
now—some people choose to just forget.
that world around them, sort of like a
Yes, then it becomes primal.
’Cause that’s super valuable information
shield. They kind of reap the benefits of
when you think of it, to know, like, “Oh,
their ancestors seeing the world for what
The other thing is personal/profes-
when I’m this situation, I will do this, ’cause
it was and protecting themselves. I think
sional is sometimes a false divide—like
I did that.” But I think people tend to ignore
there’s a large amount of people who
The Godfather thing, “It’s not personal,
that information when they get it.
don’t. It’s hard. To see the world the way
it’s strictly business”; well, actually
it is, you do need advantages. That’s why
kind of everything is personal if that’s
We tend to spend a large portion of our
I like making things, because you need
how you spend most of your time.
lives ignoring the facts of where we are
that a little bit to go on. It’s easy to look at
Time is the most valuable thing we have.
and what we’re like.
a bloody scene if it’s with, like, Lego men.
So like if you spend 40 years at a job and
Yeah. Do you think that’s a survival thing?
Because then it’s a little disconnected
then you get fired and they’re like, “You
People being, like, “I have to ignore this or
from actuality. It can be as truthful as you
know, it’s not personal, it has nothing to do
else I couldn’t go on”?
want, but it’s not really people, because if
with you,” it’s still personal. That’s 40 years
it was really people, you might not be able
you literally can’t get back. You’re right,
Maybe. Steven Soderbergh said some-
to go on; it’d be too horrible. I think some-
everything does become personal, even
thing to me to the effect of “you can
times you just need like a pair of shades in
when it is business. But it’s cool watching
either deal with the world the way you
order to keep going.
20
GLOVES OFF Donald Glover (clockwise from main photo) in Atlanta, with co-star Zazie Beetz; in Community; in Magic Mike XXL; performing as Childish Gambino.
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Something to get you through the day.
to shoot through a studio. There are a
had the idea for a long time. It was a more
Yeah. Something to keep going. But the
plethora of options for him to do that. I
of a sitcom structure when it first started.
question is, what are you going for? Every-
think that’s what actual success is, when
It felt more like something like 30 Rock or
body has an ancestor. We’re all descen-
you’re able to do whatever you need to do
Community or something a little more like
dants of people who decided it was more
whenever you need to do it. I think that’s
a network sitcom, like The Office or some-
important to keep going.
my definition for it.
thing. But the more I kept thinking about it, I think I just became a little more inter-
What keeps you going? You’ve been
On some scale you can’t be far off
ested in fear. And how fear forces people
successful commercially, but at what
that.
to do things. And I liked how fear makes
point did you consider yourself suc-
On some scale I guess I’m not, but there
people feel. It’s something that people
cessful on your own terms?
was a general survey asking people, “How
think is exclusive from a lot of other things,
I’m very fortunate I’m able to do the things
much money is enough money?” And
but fear and comedy are very related, and
I’m able to do. But I feel like I would be
everyone said double what they make. Like
I think if you do them well… If you’re scared
successful when I’m at the point I don’t
from the richest to the poorest, everyone
by something, you’re more likely to laugh.
have to explain what I do. I’m not saying I
said double. So I think that just speaks to
Once that idea came into play, that’s when
don’t want to. I think explaining your ideas
people not being satisfied. That’s just what
I started thinking this could be cool. In my
is a good way of getting people’s takes on
you do. So I’m sure I’m saying that, but I’m
head I was like, “That’s going to feel dif-
it. But I feel like when I’m at a point where
sure I’ll find, you know, something else I
ferent than most other things.” And I think
I just don’t have to ask permission, I think
need to strive for.
that’s probably the most important thing
that’s real success. That’s real freedom. If
to making any sort of art now. That it’s dif-
Steven Spielberg wanted to make a movie
What was the genesis of Atlanta—
right now about, I don’t know, horses that
when did you think, “This is something
shit gold, no one’s going to be like, “We’re
I want to spend years of my life on”?
There’s an episode where someone
not going to let you do that.” He has every-
I just thought about it a lot. Whenever I
is killed. And what struck me about
thing. He can really do it on his own if he
have an idea I just keep thinking about it.
it was that no one seemed surprised.
wanted to, if he wanted to self-finance, if
Like subconsciously, it’ll just keep coming
This wasn’t an event that was going to
he wanted money from someone else, if he
back, and I’ll keep writing down things and
make their highlights reel of the year—
wanted to shoot it on his own, if he wanted
thinking about it and thinking about it. I
it was just a thing that happened. That
ferent. Because there’s so many options.
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was shocking to me. Was that a point
advice. Play your part. People don’t
right thing, by their instinct, but it’s
you were consciously trying to make?
want Justin to be the asshole. They
disastrous. How much has that been a
It absolutely was not a point I was trying
want you to be the asshole. You’re a
personal fear?
to make at all. I just thought it was an
rapper—that’s your job.” How much
I think kind of everybody has that. It’s a
honest ending. The year before we made
is that a reaction to your own experi-
weird thing that it’s considered brave to be
Atlanta, me and my brother went to a club
ences in terms of people trying to cat-
faithful, to just blindly follow something.
and someone was shot in front of us. And
egorize you as one thing or another?
And I think everybody has that fear of like,
it wasn’t like a top three event in our lives
I feel that’s pretty true. People don’t want
“What if I’m just wrong? You know, I have
by any means. It was just something that
you, people want a brand. They want
no idea.” As a species we don’t know if we
happened. It was sad, but life went on. And
something they can believe in. They want
just fucked up. I think that’s a fear. I think
we went to Waffle House afterwards. And
consistency; that every time they go
subconsciously we’re looking for clarity.
that goes back to the perspective. I think
there, it’s going to be the same thing. They
it is perspective. There’s not a lot of guns
want McDonald’s. They want something
It’s that sense that life is like coming in
here [in London]. It would probably feel
that’s packaged and easy to understand,
halfway through a movie and just try-
different to you than somebody who lives
because it’s too hard to really see some-
ing to figure out what’s going on?
in Atlanta where somebody dies of a gun-
body as a full thing. And I think that’s [in]
Yeah. I mean, like, one day you were born.
shot like every hour. But I have heard that
everything: that’s TV, that’s rap music,
People told you how it is. You get older
actually from a lot of people. They’re like,
that’s rock, that’s everything. “I go here for
and some of that stuff was fake. We’re just
“It didn’t really matter.” I feel like it doesn’t
that.” The internet has made that quite
caught in the middle. And then you’re just
have to matter to most people. Not in a
clear to me, too. Everybody wants a brand.
asked to play a part. What if that train’s
shitty way. I’m not trying to make people
Not because people think it’s better. I think
going somewhere we’re not supposed to
feel like, “Oh yeah, you don’t care.” I’m just
it’s because it’s very fluid information—not
go, you know? Everybody’s looking for the
saying that’s part of life and it happens a
hard to hold. It’s something that’s simple.
adults to say this is the right kind of thing.
lot.
When something becomes complex, it’s
We have to do that together. It’s this weird,
harder to keep in your head.
big, giant Ouija board.
the first season—“Value” and “B.A.N.”
Was this in your mind when you cre-
You’re shooting at the moment, but
Was that because the subjects were
ated Childish Gambino? Was that
what does the average day look like for
particularly important to you, or just
a way to distance your music from
you at home?
practically because your character
yourself, or make it easier for people to
I have a rough schedule. I just have a little
wasn’t in them as much?
understand it’s a different thing?
office and I sit at my desk and I just play
Both. They were written with that in mind.
I think the ingredient in everything that
around with sounds or writing. Some days
I knew I wasn’t going to be in those, like the
people tend to forget is time. I just wanted
it’s all work, and I’ll work until two in morn-
focus wasn’t me. I wanted people to know
it to be something that was special, but
ing, four in the morning if I’m really on a roll.
this isn’t The Donald Glover Show at all. It’s
also something where people could ask
And then some days it doesn’t feel right
about life in this place.
questions. I think if Drake started making
and I’ll go to the park with my son. It really
films now, it would be hard for people to
depends.
You directed a couple of episodes of
Can you see yourself directing a fea-
understand who he is, because people
ture film at some point?
have invested so much in the Drake brand.
That’s important, if it’s not happening:
Absolutely. I think it’d be fun. I just have
He was an actor before. I think it’s hard for
just enjoy your life.
to have the right idea. I think directing
large amounts of people that this person
Yeah. If it’s a nice day, you should go out.
is like everything else; if you’re storytell-
does that and does that and does that.
I’m not going to look back and be like, “I’m
ing, then you have to be really confident
And I was aware of that early. Music is
glad I stayed in that day!” Life is about
in what you’re telling. I think Atlanta only
important to me, no question. Music is one
experience. Like everything now is going to
works because I was confident. Even if I
of the loves of my life. But there isn’t one
be running towards experience. Live con-
was wrong, it had a perspective and I was
thing I’d do forever. I don’t believe in things
cerns are becoming so popular because
very confident in what I wanted to achieve.
forever. It was just important to me to give
you can get everything else kind of straight
I think eventually I will, but I’d have to be
myself some fluidity, something that could
to you through your phone, or your televi-
confident in what the story was and what
adapt, you know?
sion. It’s hard to have an actual experience.
the script was, and right now, I feel pretty
So I’d just rather have an experience.
good just focusing on Atlanta. It’s kind of
Under the Childish Gambino credit
scratching that itch for me.
you’ve also directed a short, Chicken
And how are you finding the experi-
and Futility, in which your character
ence of being Lando at the moment?
In the episode “Nobody Beats the
says he’s sad about moths flying
This is probably one of my favorite experi-
Biebs”, a TV presenter says to Paper
towards the light because they think
ences ever. For working under, like, a huge
Boi, “Listen, I want to give you some
it’s moonlight—they’re doing the
conglomerate, it’s actually been quite an
22
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enjoyable, artistic thing. I get to play him in a way that I think is honest and true and cool. And it’s great ’cause I didn’t have to write anything, I’m focused strictly on being this guy. And I really respect him and I respect the actor who played him before. I’ve learned a lot about this character, so it’s actually been really fulfilling and nice to just turn off everything else and focus on just being someone. So it’s been cool. Lando is my son’s favorite character… Lando seems to be a lot of people’s favorite character. It’s cool. It’s a lot of pressure, but it’s also very exciting. He was my favorite character too. I grew up on Star Wars. It’s just cool to see him again. I feel like people like him ’cause he has a lot of style, but also he’s a complicated character in this world. I think even Han isn’t as complicated as Lando is. From the first time you meet him, you don’t know whether to trust him or not, and you’re constantly not knowing whether to trust him. I like that about him. What’s the best advice you’ve ever been given? I think it was probably Joel McHale [his co-star in Community]. He told me, “Get a financial manager right now.” He said, “Money isn’t anything, but it is freedom.” I think that helped me a lot. I like freedom and it affords you that. And I think people sometimes think about that as like, “Oh, he needs more money.” But I don’t think you need more money. I think you need to be aware of how much money you need to live how you want to live. It really did force me to think about life and experience. The balance is working out pretty well for you at the moment. It’s all right, right now. But right now, I’m having a moment of creative elasticity. It’s easier for me to do it, but I know eventually the rubber band will come back together. So I’m just doing what I can right now. I’m, you know, the word isn’t really “fortunate” because it’s not like luck or anything, it’s just the wave of things—I’m cresting. It’s cool. ★
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HOW SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE HAS STRUCK A NERVE IN WASHINGTON, HITTING RATINGS NOT SEEN IN 23 YEARS
decades—Chevy Chase’s stumble-
Dana Carvey, Phil Hartman and a
bum Gerald Ford, Tina Fey’s Russia-
pre-Senate Al Franken.
BY GREG EVANS
mahvelous” and “More cowbell” and
SNL—any other season of any TV
“Schweddy balls”.
entertainment show, for that mat-
ON THE SUNDAY MORNING IN MAY after Melissa McCarthy hosted Satur-
spotting Sarah Palin, “You look
But this season, the ratings and
And has any other season of
ter—worked its way so thoroughly
day Night Live for the fifth time, one of those dead-serious Beltway chat shows
the buzz make the case: NBC’s
and boisterously into the highest and
told a joke. Well, repeated a joke. The night before, Weekend Update co-anchor
Saturday Night Live, just finishing its
lowest levels of our national political
Colin Jost had summed up a claim by Donald Trump’s attorneys that the Presi-
42nd season, is more popular than
debate? Armed with the direct-
dent of the United States had received no money from Russian sources, ”with
it’s been in 23 years. An average
action delivery system of Twitter, the
a few exceptions.”
10.952 million viewers have been
President of the United States took
watching this year’s cast in live and
his feud with SNL—and its go-to
hearing, ‘Don’t worry—all the kids came back from the field trip. With a few
delayed viewings, the best figure
Trump impersonator, Alec Bald-
exceptions.’”
since an average 11.213 million tuned
win—public. Very public. “Watched
in each week to watch Mike Myers,
Saturday Night Live hit job on me,”
No Sunday pundit could have summed it up better than Jost. “That’s like
SNL has had plenty of these peak zeitgeist confluences over the
24
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CHARACTER BUILDING Main image: Melissa McCarthy’s eerily spot-on impression of Sean Spicer takes to the streets of Manhattan. Right column, from top: Kate McKinnon as Hillary Clinton; Eric (Alex Moffatt) and Donald Trump Jr. (Mikey Day) address Weekend Update host Colin Jost; Alec Baldwin as Trump and Beck Bennett as Putin.
Trump tweeted last October. “Time
attempt at good sportsmanship
utility player. It was Day who tailored
president, nabbed an SNL writing
to retire the boring and unfunny
slipping beneath his whine that
a fondness for tacky suits into last
gig in 2005, just 22 years old. He
show. Alec Baldwin portrayal stinks.
SNL had “gone from being funny to
Halloween’s viral Tom Hanks smash
replaced Seth Meyers on the Update
Media rigging election!”
just bad. Those aren’t jokes. They’re
“David S. Pumpkins”.
desk in March 2014, and was joined
SNL didn’t back down, unleash-
inappropriate…I think for a lot of
We’ve edited and condensed
there the following season by his
ing a weekly barrage of can’t-miss
people, regardless of your political
the interviews into a sort of oral his-
comedy club pal and fellow New
impersonations and parodies, from
persuasion, that’s not what you’re
tory of life inside this year’s cultural
Yorker, Michael Che. Early days were
Kate McKinnon’s Kellyanne Conway,
tuning in for.”
whirlwind, looking for a sense of
rocky: The Atlantic asked in 2015
Hillary Clinton and Jeff Sessions to
Spicer had it exactly backwards.
how it feels when the President of
whether Update could be saved:
Mikey Day’s Donald Trump Jr. and
Deadline recently spoke to a few
the United States has your number,
“Che and Jost’s struggles show what
Steve Bannon-as-Grim Reaper. By
of those jesters—Weekend Update
pundits are nicking your punch lines,
an incredible pro Meyers was in mak-
January, Trump’s press secretary
co-anchors Colin Jost and Michael
and Tom Hanks wears the pumpkin
ing it look so easy for so many years.”
Sean Spicer was trying to shrug
Che, and Mikey Day, latest in the Dan
suit you’ve dreamed up.
This season, Jost and Che made it
off Melissa McCarthy’s hysteri-
Aykroyd/Phil Hartman/Bill Hader tra-
cally unhinged Spicey routine, his
dition of character machine and vital
The talkers: Colin Jost, a Staten Island kid turned Harvard Lampoon
look easy. California native Mikey Day, a
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longtime Groundling, had been an
Honestly, I never thought ratings
and they were sort of in a stacked
SNL writer for three seasons before
would go up ever again, just because
triangle? Kind of creepily looking into
becoming a featured player last
of the way people are viewing
the camera? I remember seeing that
October. His onscreen integration
television. It’s so splintered now,
and I went up to Alex [Moffat] and
was remarkably swift and unusu-
and to have this kind of resurgence
was like, “We should try and write
ally expansive: Few SNL players in
ratings-wise, and that people are
maybe a Weekend Update feature
recent memory became so integral
paying attention in this way, it is
where we’re the Trump brothers.”
so quickly. On YouTube, his skeleton
frankly shocking. And exhilarating.
The whole persona of Eric being just
dance in the David S. Pumpkins sketch
The President tweets...
sort of like “I’m Eric” was really based
has been viewed more than 7 million
off that picture, because he was just
times, and his Grim Reaper debut as
Che: Well, it didn’t feel like the
kind of in the background, sort of
Trump adviser Steve Bannon in Febru-
president was tweeting, you know?
weirdly stacked in the back, like he
ary quickly outdid even that.
It just felt like Donald Trump. One of
didn’t really know what to do. Don Jr.
the hardest things in the world to
Instagrammed a picture of himself
SNL IN THE CULTURAL WHIRLWIND—AND WITH BETTER RATINGS
say is “President Trump,” and not out
with some Cheerios, like he took
of disrespect—just because people
Eric’s snack, and then he said some-
have known him just as Donald
thing about my hair on the show. I
Colin Jost: I sensed it in my own
Trump for so long. It would be like if
think he said, “He’s got the hair down
life, you know, outside of the show,
people said, “He’s a doctor now, call
better than I do.” That slicked back
the kind of response on the streets,
him Doctor Trump.”
sort of Wall Street look. They have
or when I traveled to do stand-up. I
that 1980s, smooth-talking busi-
noticed, like, 50 percent more atten-
Jost: It was surreal, for sure. It’s kind
ness guy thing. You can see them in
tion than in past years, you know?
of a sad moment, I don’t know—a
an ’80s movie going, “We’re going
sad moment in the sense of, why is
to tear this community center down
HERE’S SPICEY
Michael Che: People used to say,
this the thing that bothers him, ver-
and put in a high rise.” But it was cool
Day: I was in the main Groundlings
“Oh, I like the show, it’s funny.” And
sus so many other issues and prob-
Don Jr. reached out, cool that he had
company with Melissa McCarthy
this season, people were saying, “Oh,
lems? I mean, the Kristin Stewart
a sense of humor about it. It’s surreal
and Kristen Wiig and Kent Sublette,
I love the show, I needed it, thank
monologue that she did on the show
when people reach out like that. It
who is one of the head writers now.
you.” It started towards the end of
this year, which was fully based on
really reminds you that they’re real
When Melissa did Spicer—it was just
last year, when the Primary started
what happened in her real life, when
people and they’re seeing what
a real fun moment to be in 8H and
to heat up. I remember in the sum-
she and Robert Pattinson broke up,
you’re doing.
in a sketch with her. In that second
mertime people were excited for it,
and Trump tweeted at her like 20
talking about SNL in July and August,
times to run her down. It was just,
you know? When it was announced
episode where she has her podium and it had wheels on it, I mean, I had
who is this guy? On some level, it is
DON’T FEAR THE REAPER, OR STEVE BANNON
that Alec was going to be playing
his genius. Of course, you have to fig-
Day: That was Chris Kelly and Sarah
where she’s basically attacked me, so
Trump, people couldn’t wait for it.
ure out how to handle it on the show.
Schneider who wrote that. Originally,
I think she felt pretty comfortable and
Do you address it? Do you respond
it was Darth Vader. I did one blocking
was just like, “I’m going to go at you
Mikey Day: I was on a plane and this
directly to him? I think Lorne smartly
in a full Darth Vader suit, with the
with this podium, like, I’m going to try
woman came up to me and was just
didn’t want to have a sketch that
Darth Vader voice, and then they
to make contact, and hopefully mess
like “Thank you guys for what you’re
was just talking at Trump, because
changed it to the Grim Reaper, the
you up a little bit.” It was a lot of fun.
doing.” It definitely felt like it was
then you’re suddenly engaging in
embodiment of death, with a little
reaching people in a different way,
a way that’s not helping you keep
voice amplifier. A lot of times in the
certainly with the political stuff. And
some sort of distance. It’s a weird
descriptions, [the press] would say,
HOW WEEKEND GOT ITS GROOVE BACK
there was proof that the powers-
rabbit hole to go down.
Donald Trump—and then in paren-
Jost: You sense it from the audience
theses, Alec Baldwin—talks to his
in the studio, and you sense it from
that-be who were being lampooned
been in Groundling sketches with her
were aware of the show. The show
Che: Of course there’s a backlash.
advisors Kellyanne Conway, paren-
people you know, from stray civilians
was kind of having a direct effect on
Of course. Look, half the country
theses Kate McKinnon, and Steve
out there, but also friends in comedy.
who we were satirizing, if that makes
voted for him. But I think one of the
Bannon, parentheses Grim Reaper.
Sometime last year, it felt like we
sense.
things that we try to do on Update is
Like, the Grim Reaper had come in to
weren’t just gasping, we weren’t just
we try to hit him on the facts. If Hill-
play this role. Then it kind of got out
trying to survive. We got comfort-
Jost: The big thing for us this year
ary Clinton was President we would
that I was under the mask. Melissa
able enough at some point last year
was just the cast gelling in a way, and
be making fun of her just as much.
Instagrammed that picture. The first
where we were aiming to make each
portrayals that really hit, from Alec
We’re not trying to be right, we’re not
time we did it, I had that black all
episode as solid and as interesting
doing Trump, and Kate [McKinnon],
trying to be wrong, we’re trying to be
around my eyes, and it’s kind of hard
as we could, and it felt like less of an
obviously, doing Hillary, Kellyanne,
funny.
to get that stuff off, so for the rest of
existential crisis. Che and I have a
Jeff Sessions. Beck [Bennett] doing
the show I have what’s clearly black
great chemistry in life. We hang out
eyeliner on in all the other sketches.
all the time. It’s a very natural thing,
run with those figures. Melissa for
ENTER DONALD JR. AND “I’M ERIC”
That Emma Stone episode, it’s like,
so it was really just a matter of time,
Spicer. It was all a good mix of luck
Day: Remember that picture that
“Mikey has eyeliner on the entire
letting both of us get comfortable,
and foresight from Lorne [Michaels].
came out with the Trump kids
show.”
sort of naturally develop, instead
Putin. The cast really hit a home
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PLAYING SKETCH Main image: Keenan Thompson, Beck Bennett, Tom Hanks and Kate McKinnon in the Haunted Elevator sketch; Hanks plays David S. Pumpkin. Right column, from top: Jost and Weekend Update co-host Michael Che; Thomson and Day with Margot Robbie.
of trying to figure out an artificial
find that chemistry. Tina [Fey] and
the skeletons, and videos of kids
was just confused how she and I
construct. We’re having fun now. It
Jimmy [Fallon] were really good at
reenacting the sketch, doing the
could be together. And we did a
doesn’t have the anxiety that it used
it. They knew how to play off of each
skeleton choreography. It was really
Dunkin’ Donuts thing that I wrote
to have. Of course, it’s stressful and
other.
cool to see yourself out there in the
with Streeter Seidell, with Casey
pop culture of the world. I wrote
Affleck.
it’s always a huge challenge every
Other Update anchors had their
week, but it’s a fun challenge versus
set formula of the way they liked to
“Pumpkins” with Bobby Moynihan
an overwhelming one.
write and the way they liked to pro-
and Streeter Seidell. Originally, there
where John Cena kicked me through
duce the segment, and it was based
were going to be three dancing
four walls, or five walls. It was
Che: When you get this show, you’re
on their tastes and their schedules
skeletons in sort of a haunted house,
amazing how the film unit put that
really trying to do the show you’ve
and their processes. Colin and I
but then I just kind of, well, I love
together. They literally strapped me
seen, not the show you want to do,
kind of inherited their processes,
loud, crazy suits. For some reason,
to a chair and dragged me through
because you’re a little insecure in
as opposed to just blowing it all up
to me, that’s so funny. I just had an
five different set walls. We talked to
your place. At least it was for me. I
and doing it the way we would do
image of Tom Hanks in a pumpkin
the film unit and we’re like, “Is this
was a little bit more like, well, how
it. I think at the second half of last
suit saying, “I’m David Pumpkins.” So
even possible?” And the director,
would we make this an Update joke,
season, we started doing things
then we sort of reverse-engineered
Oz Rodriguez, was like, “Yeah, I think
as opposed to how would I tell this
that were easier for us, picking jokes
it from there, based on that Twilight
we can pull it off.” In the beginning
joke on stage? But Lorne in particu-
as if there was no boss, producing
Zone Tower of Terror ride at Disney-
of the scene, when John Cena kicks
lar was saying, “You have the job,
the segment as if it was our own
land, where the doors open and it’s a
me, the stage direction just said,
stop auditioning,” which meant stop
12-minute show outside of SNL. And
lot of madness. It was definitely fun
“Mikey is punched out of his pants”,
doing what you think it should be,
it started to work.
explaining it to Tom Hanks—“Okay,
so they hooked me up to a wire and
and do what you think is funny. We
“The Karate Teen” was great,
this is the guy, his name is David
attached my pants to the floor, and
started trusting our instincts more,
MIKEY GOES VIRAL
Pumpkins, and he says, well, he says
yanked the wire, and I’m literally
and we started just having fun on
Day: I’d been writing for the show
his name. And no one’s sure why he’s
yanked out of my pants. That was a
stage.
for three seasons, so probably for
there.” Tom was great. He was exper-
moment where you really take stock
me [as a new cast member] it was
imenting with the character, and
of the situation: there’s no other
Update: Colin and I are very, very
Here’s the weird thing about
a little less of a jarring change. I was
then on-air, really kind of found the
show I can write on a Tuesday that
rarely on camera together. We’re not
used to putting material up. But it’s
David Pumpkins everyone saw, with
I’m punched out of my pants, and
talking to each other. People would
definitely interesting having people
the voice and his hand dance thing.
then two days later, we’re shooting it
say “Where is the chemistry?”, and
recognizing you, asking for your
That was all Tom. Pretty fantastic.
on a sound stage.
I’m like, well, where would it be? You
picture and stuff. A couple times I’ve
have to find moments that let every-
been out with my mom and a few people wanted pictures. My mom
…PANTLESS, AND MATT SHATT
NEXT?
body know he and I are in the same room. There are ways to do that. I can
loves it. She’s definitely very proud of
Day: I feel like the whole season
time gig this summer, which is pretty
respond to his joke, I can laugh, I can
her son now.
has been a highlight. The premiere
exciting. And then unless we blow up
was fun, with Margot Robbie, when
the studio, I’m guessing we’ll be back
look over. We can have moments, find
After “David Pumpkins,” a lot of
Che: Colin and I are doing the prime-
a way to fill up those little gaps where
people were sending me pictures
I played a character named Matt
in October, or September, whenever
we can acknowledge each other and
dressed up like David Pumpkins and
Shatt in a news report, and everyone
the season starts. ★
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Ke vin
Working predominantly in films over the years, what has been the experience of
B AC O N
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working on an Amazon series? When I started out, kids watched television, and adults watched movies. And now, kids go to the movies, and adults watch television. There’s a part of me that’s actually saddened by it, I have to say, because when I became an actor, I just wanted to do movies and
The I Love Dick star on his journey from TV, to films, and back again. BY M AT T G RO BA R
theater. I left Guiding Light in 1979, or something like that, and was like, “Goodbye, TV.” There’s a part of me that is sad about the state of the movie business. It becomes harder and harder to find anything to do in that space. The studios make a handful of movies, and if I don’t get the bad guy in a comic book movie, then that’s kind of it [laughs]. It’s like, where’s The French Connection,
IN SO MANY OF HIS NOW-ICONIC FILMS—from Footloose, to Tremors to Apollo 13—Kevin Bacon appears as the spitting image of masculinity, so it’s easy to see why Jill Soloway and Sarah Gubbins cast the actor as the titular Dick in their Amazon series, I Love Dick, an impenetrable cowboy and artist of few words and even less bedside manner. Even so, when stepping into Dick’s boots, Bacon didn’t think of any roles that had come before, only the one right in front of him. Approaching an unusual series with equally unusual characters, the actor started “swatting the ball around,” and therein found his way.
where’s Dog Day Afternoon? Where’s Serpico, and The Deer Hunter, and the films of John Cassavetes? These are the types of movies that I would like to be working in. But since they’re not in the movies, I’m going to try to find them wherever I can. That’s what I Love Dick is like—a cool, experimental film. And yet, it doesn’t have to be in some little rundown theater on the Lower East Side, where you’re begging
For most of the first season, Dick is
The dynamic between Dick and Kath-
anybody to come see it, hoping that there’s
more or less an impenetrable charac-
ryn Hahn’s Chris is quite awkward and
lightning in a bottle, and it gets an Oscar
ter. What was discussed in your initial
complicated. What was the collabora-
nomination so that people will know about it.
conversations with series creators Jill
tion like with Hahn?
That becomes a struggle, after a while.
Soloway and Sarah Gubbins, in terms
We immediately trusted each other, as
of who this man would be?
actors, and had a lot of mutual respect.
I love that you could watch it all at once. In
You kind of put your finger on it. One initial
We’re more into throwing ourselves into a
fact, I’ve had a lot of people tell me that they
conversation was to get a sense from
situation than questioning a situation.
did watch it all at once, and that was kind of
them, if he was going to move beyond this impenetrable, iconic object. While I thought that was really cool and
part of the experience, where you just kind
scene and start swatting the ball around,
of immerse yourself in Marfa and the lives of
and she’s very much like that. I think she’s
these people for four hours.
interesting, and something that we hadn’t
a very emotionally available actress, and
really seen before, I also didn’t know, if we
a very fearlessly committed actress, and I
Did you discuss the sentiments you’ve
were lucky enough to get multiple seasons,
really admire that.
just mentioned with Soloway, who made a splash in film before becoming a pow-
whether that would be something I would
My feeling about what sometimes is
want to keep doing. Because I don’t know
considered “chemistry” is that it’s often a
erhouse in television?
if that would really be challenging enough.
little bit of a way to dismiss what actors
I had discussed it with her, yeah. In fact, it
They assured me that their idea was to
do, by saying, “Well, they just liked each
was kind of strange for us. Really, our first
see into the soul of this man, and see beyond
other, and therefore the scene works.”
exposure on the show was at the Sundance
what we learned about him in the book, which was a very different kind of thing. One of the things, also, that Jill and I
I don’t believe in that. I’ve worked with plenty of people that I don’t like, necessarily, but you have to talk to them, and be
Film Festival, where I’ve been going since 1988 or something. Again, this was bittersweet. I couldn’t
discussed a lot, was the idea that when we
in the scene with them. And then there’s
think of a place where I’d rather launch
see him, he’s at a crucial point in his life—
plenty of examples of people who probably
something like I Love Dick. On the other hand,
what I like to call a “passage.” He wants to
had whatever real chemistry is, that end up
it made me think, “Wow, this is techni-
make some big changes in his life, and is
getting married or whatever, and then it’s
cally not a movie, and yet, here we are at
confronting a lot of stuff. And then, thrown
not that good.
Sundance.”
into the mix of that, when he least expects
I think “chemistry” is really just a word
it, is this intense woman and her husband.
for two actors who are really in the scene
and I feel like, hopefully, there will be some
That’s part of what we need to see,
with good material, and talking and listen-
good movies in my future. But I haven’t read
ing to each other.
them [laughs]. ★
how they affect him.
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What I really need to do is get into the
So, I’m thrilled. I think it’s really cool, and
John Russo
I’m not giving up. I think things are cyclical,
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Tig
How have you been able to move away from being known for having cancer?
N O TA R O
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I think I can feel a change, but I’m also always aware that I probably don’t fully know how I’m seen. I can see myself in a certain light, or think I’m moving in this direction, or changing in this way. People might not see me as that, whereas I feel like I am on the other side of all of that trauma that I went through.
The stand-up comic takes her show One Mississippi – and her whole life – into a new season B Y A N T O N I A B LY T H
Obviously, things carry on in ways. You still always deal with things. I think I really was kind of stuck, at a time, in just a hard place, physically and emotionally. Now, I feel so good, and my stand-up even, there was a lot of talk about how I was this dark and truth-telling comedian. It’s like, I did that when I was going through that, and I think a part of me was thinking, “Gosh, all these people are saying that. Is this what I am? Is that who I am now? Maybe that’s
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HEN TIG NOTARO MADE THE LEAP from talented comic to household name, that change went hand-in-hand with her breast cancer diagnosis. Having just received the news from her doctor, Notaro famously rocked LA’s Largo theater by opening her stand-up routine with the words, “Hello, I have cancer.”
who I am now.” Then I had to remind myself that my whole career, I’ve always been changing, and trying new things, and doing what felt right at each moment, and that felt right then. Whereas now, I don’t really have anything depressing to talk about, you know?
that I went through, it’s been so fun to move
What inspired your new stand-up
Notaro then published a memoir, became
away from and let go of it more and more,
material?
the subject of Showtime and Netflix docu-
as thankful as I’ve been for all these different
I’ve been touring around with this new mate-
mentaries, and was nominated for an Emmy
outlets to let me express myself in all these
rial, and I’m hoping to do a special this year.
for her HBO special, Boyish Girl Interrupted.
different ways.
There’s a segment in my new material that
The resulting audio became a hit album.
Her new half-hour series, One Mississippi—
I think is the most ridiculous thing I’ve ever
co-created with Diablo Cody (Young Adult)—
What’s the dynamic like between
done, and it lasts about 15 minutes. You have
was subsequently snapped up by Amazon.
you, showrunner Kate Robin and the
to be there to see what it is.
Based on her life, with some fictionalized
writers?
elements, Mississippi follows Notaro—in the
Kate’s so great. I think that she and I have a
it’s so fun. It’s just a reminder of, “It’s not all
lead role as herself–through the passing
really great relationship and understanding
darkness.” This is purely silly ridiculousness—
of her mother, Notaro’s recovery, and the
of what we’re trying to do here. It’s all very
that’s all this is.
heartbreaking and hilarious scenarios that
based in reality, with natural comedy, hope-
followed.
fully, coming from it. We have two new writers this season, but
I’m hoping to do it on my special, and
How about a Mississippi Season 3? Season 3 would be dreamy. I never know.
While the pilot was based on your real-
they’re right on target. It’s like a big therapy
It’s like going back to the thing I was saying:
life experience, the show then moved
session, our writer’s room. I mean, every day
I don’t know if people really think of me. I
more into fictional territory. Did you
somebody is crying or sharing something
don’t ever assume that people are going
always know where Season 2 would go?
they never told anyone. I think we’ve been
to love or appreciate what I do. It would be
That’s really been the fun of it: I don’t know
good at having the right eye and feel for
great. I don’t assume that they’re not going
where it’s going to go; let’s figure out where
who’s going to be good in the group, or in the
to. I just am like, “I’m going to do my absolute
this is going to go. I’ve brought in ideas to the
room. I owe a lot to Kate for keeping things
best at everything I do, and I’m going to put
writer’s room of where I’d like things to go;
on track in that way.
it out with pride, and hope people enjoy it.”
everybody has. We follow those storylines,
That’s how I feel about Season 2.
and sometimes we get to a place where
In real life you’re married (to co-star
they have to scrap it. Those have been sad
Stephanie Allynne), but will your charac-
completely lost us here,” or it’ll be like, “Yeah,
moments, because I’ve had a couple of
ter explore dating in Season 2?
let’s have Season 3.” Like I said, I want to do
storylines that I really was excited to do, and
Well, there are people that I’m dating
a new comedy special. I have an idea for
then it didn’t quite make sense with what we
[on the show], and checking things out
another book. I have my babies and my wife,
were doing with other elements of the show.
with, and checking out the spark that got
and I can’t wait to spend the summer with
started with the Kate character. That’s
them. I just feel truly on top of the world, and
definitely in Season 2.
the luckiest, luckiest person. ★
As time has gone on, and there’s been more distance from that traumatic time
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Maybe people will be like, “Wow, you
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Louie
The political discourse between them, pitting Reagan against Jimmy Carter,
ANDERSON
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is beautiful—cordial, in a way that we don’t see too much these days. It’s an interesting microcosm of things, right? I didn’t love Reagan, but I didn’t hate him—I reserve my hate for myself. I performed at the White House, at the reopening
The Baskets star discusses Christine Baskets’ evolution in Season 2 B Y M AT T G R O B A R
of Ford’s Theatre, and I got to bring my mom. There was a special thing there, because my mom and I both got to meet Ron and Nancy, and have that picture, and that was a big thing for a kid from the projects, going to the White House and performing, and meeting the president and his wife. I do think it reflects the times and our struggle out there, that we’re really two different groups of people, with the liberals and the conservatives, but it doesn’t mean
WINNING HIS FIRST PRIMETIME EMMY AWARD last year, for his portrayal of Bakersfield matriarch Christine Baskets in FX original series Baskets, Louie Anderson’s reception by the TV Academy was particularly meaningful. Channeling his own mother’s relentless, yearslong optimism for his stand-up act, and bringing that same energy to Baskets, this recognition was a testament to the light his mother brought to his life.
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we can’t love each other. Towards the end of the season, Christine seems to be embarking on a significant weight loss journey, involving surgery. This creates a unique creative challenge for the show going forward. Her struggles are my struggles, quite literally. It’s interesting when it pairs with reality. I’m just wondering how they’re going
Part of what is so lovable about Chris-
it in, with ice, and then she poured it into
to handle that plot line. The writers don’t
tine is her eternal optimism, and the
nice glasses that she got somewhere. That
start till June, so I don’t know, but I know
way in which she’s able to find joy in
mattered to her. She wanted us to feel
what I want to do.
the little things. Where does this come
special, and she did that to each of us.
from, and was it always going to be a
She couldn’t control my dad’s drinking;
How I feel is, this is another chance for Christine to learn her lessons—to learn more
defining part of her character?
she couldn’t control the fact that we were
about her family, and to maybe jitterbug a
It comes from my mom—I’ll just be upfront
dirt poor. She couldn’t control the fact that
little. Maybe just step out, way out of her
about that. It was taught to me by her. She
she had 11 kids running around, and it must
comfort zone, which is really going to be true.
found the joy in a fork that she found at a
have been very difficult. But she never lost
I’m super excited about the potential
garage sale for a nickel that was worth a
sight of the fact that she could bring some
[next season], because as hard as Chris-
quarter. She would feel so excited to tell
sunshine and some beauty into a desolate
tine’s working on herself in the show, I’m
me, “This is a very good fork.” I would think,
place.
working on myself in life. I think the show
“What?” “For a nickel. Can you believe I got this for a nickel?” I’d go, “No, I can’t.” We didn’t have a lot of money, so my
What I wanted Christine to be was—
has afforded us a chance to go to the next
above all of the noise—a lifeline to hook
level. It’s like we found a giant piece of
onto, because that’s what my mom was.
carbon that could be a diamond, could be
mom would find things like that. She would
an emerald, or could just be carbon. Which
find a Duncan Phyfe table, which meant
You have a love interest this season:
a great deal to her, but to us, it didn’t
Ken, played by Alex Morris. What was
mean as much. Even in the middle of our
it like exploring a romantic side to
Another major moment involves Chris-
being poor, the Duncan Phyfe table was
Christine?
tine buying out the rodeo, rather than
a highlight of our dining room, you know?
It’s probably the first time that Christine
building her own Arby’s franchise, in a
She knew the value of well-made, pretty
has noticed anyone being nice to her for
totally selfless act of love for her son.
things, and she wanted us to feel that even
25 years, in that boyfriend type, or man/
What does this plot point mean for the
though we were poor, that we had the pos-
woman thing. That started with my shock
future of the series?
sibility of getting them.
and dismay and joy of getting the bracelet,
I think what it will mean is, is Christine
I remember her more than once saying,
one is it? I said it would be diamond.
but when he hugged me, I took the hug as,
the mother she could be, or is she the
“Don’t you love a delicious, ice-cold glass
“I haven’t been hugged for 25 years.” I tried
mother she always is? I think that both
of water?” I’d go, “Yeah, I do actually like
to play it that way. I was so scared. I played it
are satisfying to the audience, but one is
ice water.” You know what made it special?
like a girl being hugged by a suitor. Like, “Oh,
more satisfying than the other, but much
My mom had a crystal pitcher that she put
hey, this hasn’t happened in a long time.”
harder to do. ★
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Amy
as I used to, and the thing the show does for me is it makes me incredibly nostalgic for
POEHLER
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New York, the way people talk to each other, and nobody really gives a fuck what you want. It’s like, “Tell the guy at the deli your order, and move to the side.” There’s this urgency and bluntness that I miss out here in California. As someone who put in a lot of hours
The Difficult People EP on the new era of streaming
on a network show, what is it like now, working with Hulu, in a time when media
B Y M AT T G R O B A R
is consumed so differently? It’s really cool. We’ve had a really interesting and exciting couple of years over at Paper Kite [Productions], where we’ve dealt with everything from Broad City, to doing a show over at Netflix. We did a multi-cam with Carol Burnett, or an unscripted craft show with me and Nick Offerman. We’re doing all
HILE AMY POEHLER HAS BEEN a powerful presence in television, comedy and entertainment at large for decades, some may not know that the actress has been working just as tirelessly behind the scenes for many years, shepherding comic projects and talents with a keen awareness that, more than experience or anything else, a specific voice and point of view is what matters most. Below, the Difficult People EP discusses the universal and specific dimensions of Hulu’s original show biz comedy series, her early experiences hustling in entertainment, and possibilities she sees in the brave new world of streaming.
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these different genres, and it’s not just like, “Oh, you can swear on cable.” It’s not that. There’s a couple things that the viewer might not notice, but as a producer, are huge. One is that there’s a flexibility of time; in a 24-minute show, those extra three minutes are huge. Hulu was just starting to dip into comedy a couple years ago, and it’s been exciting to see what they’ve been doing. You really want to work with creative people, creative execs, and also, people who understand, “OK, I’m going to let this show percolate. I’m going to
How would you describe Difficult People to someone who’s never seen it? It’s
that everybody “gets along”.
let the creator find their voice.”
There’s just a lot of friction. They’re just
pop culture, it’s satire, it’s meta, it’s
really sharp, and biting, and Julie and Billy
You’ve been working on the producing
non-stop jokes—it’s a lot of things.
[Eichner] are both performers who really like
side of the business for many years now.
What is really universal about the show is
to go for the joke. It’s the biggest shame, if
What lessons have you taken along the
this idea of two outsiders, people who feel
it’s left unsaid, and really, nobody is safe.
way that inform your work now?
they can’t find a way to move up in the
The characters are obsessed with pop
If anything [has been] shown to us over the
world, whatever that means. Their frustra-
culture. They think, like most of America
past couple of years, it’s that people are
tion makes them, at times, narrow-minded,
right now, that happiness lies within there,
really drawn to a sharp voice and point of
and petty, and misanthropic. I love that Julie
but one hopes that you keep watching it
view, especially in comedy. I think that noth-
[Klausner, creator and star] can present a
because it’s a story of friendship.
ing can substitute for that.
It’s hard to imagine you ever being like
tion, working with really esteemed, talented
either of these characters, and you’ve
people who, frankly, just need me to stay out
like to be an actor and performer in New
built such a stellar career for yourself.
of the way. But I love the problem solving
York, what it’s like to be a gay man in New
But was there ever a moment, early on,
that comes with producing, the opportu-
York during this administration, what it’s like
when you experienced similar frustra-
nity to work with all kinds of people, who I
to be a woman working in comedy, and the
tions, as you pursued a place for your-
learn a lot from. And I just dig that I can give
frustration one has to face.
self in entertainment?
opportunity to female showrunners, writ-
Oh, yeah [laughs]. “Hell is other people”
ers—directors, especially—to try to, in any
is this cast of people that work at the café,
is what Sartre said, and this business, it
way, chip away at the ridiculous imbalance.
that are completely original.
doesn’t matter what level of success you’re
It’s a great reason to go to work.
female character who doesn’t have to win our hearts. Specifically, the show is about what it’s
The larger world, of which I’m very proud,
The other thing is, I really love collabora-
One of the things that I think Difficult
at—if you want to, you can torture yourself
People doesn’t get enough credit for is they
by what you don’t have, or what somebody
some old school, Hollywood quote. “Always
present a lot of LGBTQ characters that are
has over you. It’s always: How do you define
go to bed angry.” [laughs] How about that?
very different, and aren’t all chummy. Julie’s
success? What are the stakes?
In summation, always go to bed angry. That’s
writing doesn’t pander to people assuming
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I don’t spend as much time in New York
Let me think… I should probably give you
my Hollywood advice. ★
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Our
was this feeling that trans-ness was really handled quite reverently in Season 1, but
L A DY J
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★
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★
every other character wasn’t handled reverently. In a way, the trans-ness, I wanted to rough it up a little bit, make it a little bit more real, include some of the ugly things. Do you have a lot of interaction with Jeffrey Tambor (who pays trans char-
Transparent’s writer and producer discusses why she took the kid gloves off trans B Y A N T O N I A B LY T H
acter Maura)? Normally, the writers are on set for their episodes, but I was lucky enough to be asked to be on set for any of the episodes that had trans characters. I was there for every scene, especially if it had context to do with transitioning, or an obstacle that had to do with being trans. The difference between Jeffrey and Maura is that Maura has been living her life as a trans woman 24 hours a day from the
HEN OUR LADY J joined the writing team at Transparent, it was something of a career departure. Previously known as a singer-songwriter who’s worked with Lady Gaga, Debbie Harry and Cyndi Lauper, she applied for the job by writing a short story about her experience of growing up trans in Pennsylvania. As Transparent prepares to air its fourth season, Our Lady J (who is now also a producer) talks about the show jumping ship to Israel, how Trump’s win almost flipped the script and how she bonded with Dolly Parton.
W
beginning. There’s a lot that happens when you wake up in the morning that Jeffrey so graciously acknowledges that only trans people can truly experience. Those tiny, minute details, Jeffrey and I would talk about. Next up for you is a concert where you perform Dolly Parton’s music. I do have a concert. I’m doing a couple of dates all around the world of this show that I call The Gospel of Dolly, which is a tribute
So for Season 4, the action will head
It felt like—when we were counting on
to Dolly Parton’s gospel music. As a hillbilly
to Israel?
having our first female president—we were
who grew up in the church, I really, really
Yes. This next season we go global, quite
writing for these characters and these
love gospel music. I especially love Dolly
literally. We’ve been in Los Angeles for the
stories that were going to be taking place
Parton, as an inclusive person who doesn’t
first three seasons and it’s about life in LA,
in that America. Then, we took a step back
preach the dogma, but preaches the spirit
but also life in America. With everything
and we realized that our themes that had
of love. I perform with a gospel choir.
that’s happening politically in the world
been running through what we were writ-
right now, we wondered, how would the
ing were actually right in line with what the
And Dolly herself has said that she
Pfeffermans react? We take a little trip
country was feeling. There was this general
loves your performances, right?
around the world and we find out. You can
anxiety, there was fear, there was uncer-
Yeah. It’s a weird story. I’m going to be
watch them misbehave in the holy land,
tainty. We ran with those themes and we
honest; it makes my heart race really fast
not just Los Angeles.
really leaned into those things.
when I think about it because she’s such
Creator/showrunner Jill Soloway has
When you joined the show at Season 2,
concerts in New York years ago and asked
said it will be more specifically political
had you already been a fan? What did
to meet me. I thought for sure she was
this season.
you want to bring to the show?
going to hand me a cease and desist, but
Yeah. I come from Amish country in
I was a huge fan of the show. I auditioned
instead she just thanked me for singing her
Pennsylvania. I wasn’t surprised that the
for the part of Davina in Season 1, actually.
music.
country was going to lean in this conserva-
When I first met Jill at the GLAAD awards,
tive direction again. It felt somewhat like
she was telling me about this character.
gender-confirming surgeries a few years
the trauma of growing up in rural USA as a
Alexandra Billings got the part because
ago, she helped me raise money for that
trans person. We can isolate ourselves in
she is a goddess and amazing, but I had
before insurance companies were covering
these metropolitan cities and really forget
decided from that moment on that I was
anything. She helped me get my boobs, so
what’s happening outside. There was
going to be involved somehow in Transpar-
I have a little bit of Dolly in me forever now.
this feeling of doom that was impend-
ent, because I believed in it so much.
I saw her last summer and I told her that I
an angel. She found out I was doing these
Then when it came time for one of my
ing–we just were hoping it didn’t happen.
When I got into the writer’s room, one
Then when it happened, it did feel like we
of the first things that I wanted to do was
missing a beat she said, “Well, mine are
needed to re-break everything.
take off the kid gloves with Maura. There
called shock and awe.”★
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had named my right boob Jolene. Without
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