Deadline Hollywood - AwardsLine - 07/01/20

JULY 1, 2020 EMMY PREVIEW/DRAMA

PRESENTS J U LY 1 , 2020 E MMY P R E VI E W/ D R A MA

JEREMY STRONG

The method behind the madness of Succession’s second season

HILLARY CLINTON

Takes a deep dive into her life and times with a new documentary series

Plus:

DIALOGUE: DRAMA

Rose Byrne

Kerry Washington Gugu Mbatha-Raw Kaitlyn Dever

Fresh faces Paul Mescal and Daisy Edgar-Jones break through in the love story that smashed ratings records and became a television sensation

PEOPLE

D EA DL I NE .CO M /AWA RDSL I NE

NORMAL

Yahya Abdul-Mateen II

D EAD L I NE .CO M

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7

JEREMY STRONG Succession’s troubled second son attempts to break free from his fate

11

WORLD MAGIC How The Mandalorian’s use of new technology could change the game

12

TEENAGE KICKS The breakthrough stars of Normal People join director Lenny Abrahamson to discuss the hit Irish television phenomenon

22

DIALOGUE: DRAMA Kerry Washington Rose Byrne Yahya Abdul-Mateen II Kaitlyn Dever Gugu Mbatha-Raw

32

THE PARTNERSHIP Hillary Clinton teams up with Nanette Burstein for a documentary series on her life and work

36

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THE ACTOR’S SIDE Intriguing one-on-one conversations between Deadline’s awards editor and leading actors of film & television NEW VIDEOS EVERY WEDNESDAY WATC H N OW AT DE A DL I N E .C OM

Prince of Darkness BA FTA L A/CO N TOU R BY G E T T Y I M AG ES

As Kendall Roy steps out of his father’s looming shadow in Season 2 of Succession, Jeremy Strong grapples with a heavy head perpetually denied its crown

BY JOE UTICHI

PHOTOGRAPH BY

Emma McIntyre

D E A D L I N E .C O M / AWA R D S L I N E

7

MOMENT OF TRUTH Strong, as Kendall Roy, offloading family secrets in Succession.

the first time in his life. “This is the day his reign ends.”

“It’s an eleventh-hour buzzer-beater

yourself up; no real person involved.”

It was an exchange folded into the script by creator Jesse Armstrong in

moment,” says Strong of Kendall’s

one of its later drafts, after debating the

electrifying press conference coup de

scene with Strong. “We had a hammer,

grâce. “A somersault flip that has been a

we had a trigger, and we were missing

long time coming.”

a firing pin,” Strong says. “I know my

In Kendall’s mind, one imagines, are

father’s a bastard, and I know he’s cruel.

those final words his father left him with.

But I don’t think I’ve ever quite seen the

“You’re not a killer,” Logan told Kendall,

gorgon head of his evil before, and I think

before accidentally lighting the flame he

that has a real effect. Despite the glaring

had previously been tamping down. “You

evidence of my father being a false god,

have to be a killer.”

I have been worshipping at his altar for

But Kendall was a killer, in a very literal

so long. I’m ready to be his sacrifice. But

sense. At a wedding towards the end of

I think, in that moment, I finally see him

the first season, he had slipped from his

for what he is.”

sobriety and been responsible for the

Strong often talks about Kendall like

death of a waiter in a car accident remi-

this; in the first-person, as though the

niscent of Chappaquiddick, very quickly

character is as much a part of him as

for him to deliver. “The truth is that my

hushed up and tucked under the rug by

any memory he holds of his own life. It

living in the pillory Logan Roy has

father is a malignant presence, a bully

his family’s frightening and unchecked

is not affectation. Strong’s approach to

constructed to keep his own children in

and a liar,” he tells the assembled press.

power. Everyone had moved on, but

his work has always been to internalize

line, that final swing becomes the release

“And he was fully personally aware of

Kendall could not. And on the verge of

and embody fully. Even before his acting

that Kendall has longed for, even if he

these events for many years and made

tears in that final conversation with his

career gained steam, he had worked with

never knew it. At the press conference

efforts to hide and cover up.” He pulls a

father, he had brought it up. Perhaps

Daniel Day-Lewis, serving as his personal

set up for him to admit culpability,

set of index cards from his jacket pocket,

he deserved to be his family’s fall guy?

assistant on The Ballad of Jack and Rose.

Kendall rejects the statement prepared

and lays out the full truth, for perhaps

“No,” Logan had assured him. “Don’t beat

Later, they worked together in front of

But after two seasons and a lifetime

8

D E A D L I N E .C O M / AWA R D S L I N E

COU RT ESY OF H BO

THE SECOND SEASON OF SUCCESSION ENDS WITH A BANG for Jeremy Strong’s Kendall Roy, the troubled second son of a Murdochinspired media dynasty built by his imposing father, Logan, played by Brian Cox. Kendall has been selected by his father to become the family’s sacrificial lamb, as a crisis threatens to engulf the Waystar-Royco empire. “One meaningful skull to wave,” as Logan puts it, to protect the family’s control on the business. And, for Logan, Kendall has never had the cutthroat spirit to run the company, an admission he makes as he swings the hangman’s ax down on his own son’s neck.

the camera, with art imitating life as

deadened place, for months on end, in

Strong played John Nicolay, the private

a way that was difficult because that’s

secretary to Day-Lewis’s Abraham Lin-

not my nature.”

coln in Steven Spielberg’s eponymous biopic of the President.

Watching Day-Lewis’s work was

thing to it, and whatever it costs you is

a lesson to Strong about how to

what it costs you. I don’t really believe

approach his own. “What I saw in him

in tempering things so that you can

was a willingness to make a fool of

stay healthy, if what the character is

himself on the day in front of the crew

experiencing is a form of hell. Because

and the other actors so that he could

it’s not about you. It’s about the millions

really believe in the thing and commit

of people, potentially, who might expe-

to it,” Strong remembers. “I think com-

rience something from the storytelling.

mitment is a worthy goal; you have to

That might be moved, or even have a

leave everything else at the gate. I was

cathartic experience, if you come from

22 and it was a great privilege to get to

a real place and truly embody what the

witness that.”

character is thinking.”

He chuckles. “At the same time,

S UCC ESS I ON : HBO; BA LLA D : IFC P RODS /KOBA L/S HU T T E RSTOC K ; LI N CO L N : D RE AM WO R KS / 20 T H CE N T U RY FOX /KO BAL /S H U T T E RSTOC K

But there was no avoiding it. “You have to really go there and give every-

Still, despite the frequent opinions

he’d be so mad to know I’m sitting

held about the irrationality of method

here talking about him as if that were

performance—perhaps most famously

something special. He is an actor who

(and perhaps most apocryphally),

is endangering himself for love, I guess,

Laurence Olivier telling Dustin Hoff-

like we all do, and I think part of what

man, after a discussion of Hoffman’s

became difficult for him was the way

method, “My dear boy, have you tried

in which it elevated him, or gave him

acting?”—Strong insists there’s a very

some kind of special status in other

clear line. He may try to lose himself in

people’s eyes. But between us, he’s an

the characters he plays, but he is never

otherworldly force.”

truly lost. “For me, it is a game. You’re

‘Endangering’ is a apt choice of

approximating something and trying

STORIED HISTORY Clockwise, from top: With Brian Cox in Succession, Daniel Day-Lewis and Camilla Belle in The Ballad of Jack and Rose, as John Nicolay in Lincoln.

word, especially considering the emo-

to render it, but it does exist within

tional weight a character like Kendall

lines on a court. I wish you could lose

Roy has been carrying around. The

yourself in it completely—and there are

it gives us the possibility of capturing

Raskolnikov in Crime and Punishment,

flipside of an all-in, method approach

moments within scenes in which you

these real moments. A lot of the scenes

who has both an inflated sense of self

to acting is that it isn’t so easy to leave

do, and that’s usually when it’s good—

between Brian and I are just the two

and an abject insecurity. You imagine

that weight on the soundstage at the

but I guess you bring yourself up to the

of us getting into the ring together and

that tug of war is always going on inside

end of a day. “I don’t know that acting

ledge as best you can.”

going for it.”

of him, and so it does make me feel a

in itself is the sanest or healthiest

He insists that he can step away

But so much, he says, about being

lot of empathy for his struggle.”

Kendall’s triumphant press confer-

pursuit,” Strong says. “I was in a fucked-

from Kendall, and keep his creative and

fighting fit in the moment revolves

up headspace, in a very intensely

personal lives separate. But occupy-

around the work he put into under-

ence moment feels like it might be his

ing the inner thoughts of a different

standing the peculiar mindset of an

most apposite chance to escape from

person requires a bit of revving up and

entitled enfant terrible of a billionaire

his father’s rule and set his own destiny.

throttling down either side. He admires

family. The Roy siblings all exist in a

But the final shot of the season rests

those actors who can switch their char-

state of emotional immaturity, instilled

on Logan’s face as his son tears up and

acters on and off like a light bulb. “Meryl

in them by their privilege, and their

discards those index cards that have

I DON’T REALLY BELIEVE IN TEMPERING THINGS SO THAT YOU CAN STAY HEALTHY, IF WHAT THE CHARACTER IS EXPERIENCING IS A FORM OF HELL.”

Streep talks about that; pretending to

parents’ detached approach.

just exploded his carefully controlled

—JEREMY STRONG, SUCCESSION

world. And, just before the episode cuts

the level of belief so she’s just there

“Kendall is full of these things that

when they call action,” he says. “But,

have been planted in him by his father’s

to black, a wry smile starts to form at

for whatever reason, my runway—my

abuse and his mother’s lack of nurture,”

the corner of Logan’s lips. He has finally

taxi and takeoff—is just a lot longer and

Strong reflects of Kendall’s urgency

seen his son become a killer.

there’s more in my way.”

to please. “What’s so great about the

After a lifetime spent chasing his

writing is Jesse pulls from so many

father’s validation, that means all bets

the production of Succession that

sources. So, of course, I read a lot about

are off for Kendall Roy. “I don’t have

might allow him to get up to speed,

the Murdochs and thought a lot about

the kind of relationship with my father

but Strong is pleased about that. The

what it must be like to be James and

that Kendall has with his,” says Strong.

discoveries you make in rehearsal, he

Lachlan, growing up at that breakfast

“But I do know what it’s like to have

says, are given added artifice when

table and having a father whose only

heroes and to not measure up to those

they’re reenacted for the camera. “You

language was commerce and strength,

heroes. That’s as much as I’ll say about

have to walk into a scene not knowing

if that might not be your own native

that, but by inference, I’m sure you can

what’s going to happen. We get to work

tongue. But I also think there’s elements

understand what I mean… and what a

in this wonderfully dangerous way, but

of Biff in Death of a Salesman. And

powerful thing that is.” ★

There is no rehearsal built into

D E A D L I N E .C O M / AWA R D S L I N E

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CHARTED TERRITORY

At press time, here is how Gold Derby’s experts ranked Emmy chances in the Drama categories. Follow all the races at GoldDerby.com

Let Them Eat Cake

DRAMA SERIES

ODDS

1

Succession

4/1

2

Ozark

6/1

3

The Crown

6/1

4

Better Call Saul

7/1

5

The Morning Show

23/2

FX’s Kate Lambert shares the inspiration behind the innovative short-form series ACTOR IN A DRAMA SERIES WITH CAKE, FXX sought to bring prestige short-form content to mainstream TV. Spearheaded by Kate Lambert, SVP, Original Programming at FX Networks, the show was conceived as, “a collection of bite-sized snacks that were all of one piece,” the executive says.

Targeted toward a millennial audience, Cake was inspired

by Liquid Television and the wacky variety of Adult Swim—a treasure trove of animated and live-action programming, ranging widely in aesthetic, length and tone. In curating pieces for the series, Lambert was guided by the fearless, adult-driven brand ethos of FX. They aimed for “something with a point of view and authenticity,” she says, “that was challenging, cinematic and told a great story.”

For Lambert, one of the most exciting aspects to Cake has been its potential as an incubator for diverse, up-and-coming talent from around the world. “That’s part of the heart and soul of development at FX,” she says, “just finding those people, giving them a platform, and letting them take off.” In Season 1, one of these raw talents was Samantha Jayne. The creator and star of the recurring segment Quarter Life Poetry—an exploration of a young woman’s struggles in her personal and professional life—Jayne’s project started its life as a series of poems published on Instagram, and has now successfully connected with audiences worldwide. “It’s been the most lovely collaborative process with FX,” Jayne says. “We feel so lucky that they’ve believed in Quarter Life Poetry, what it stands for, and how it affects conversation.” —Matt Grobar

FLIGHT OF FANTASY Production Designer Frank Walsh talks building a faerie homeland for Carnival Row

1

Brian Cox Succession

39/10

2

Bob Odenkirk Better Call Saul

9/2

3

Jason Bateman Ozark

5/1

4

Jeremy Strong Succession

11/2

5

Billy Porter Pose

13/2

ACTRESS IN A DRAMA SERIES Olivia Colman The Crown

37/10

2

Laura Linney Ozark

9/2

3

Jennifer Aniston The Morning Show

5/1

4

Jodie Comer Killing Eve

13/2

5

Elisabeth Moss The Handmaid’s Tale

19/2

without that,” Walsh says, “I think [the show] was just an odd fantasy set-up.”

Basing Tirnancoc’s earthy architecture on medieval churches in Ethiopia and Norway, Walsh rounded out the world by incorporating eroded sandstones

prior to their subjugation at the

mountains he found, while scouting

Row, production designer Frank

hands of humans. For Walsh, properly

locations in the Czech Republic. “It’s

Walsh was tasked with creating a

establishing this environment was

all about chasms, and the sky, and the

village for an ancient race of faeries.

key, in demonstrating the depth and

darkness of the ground,” the designer

Immersed in the natural world, the

sensitivity of these characters—

notes. “I felt like that very much was

Fae flew freely amidst the beautiful,

qualities that set them apart from

a place where I could see the Fae

snowcapped mountains of Tirnanoc,

their urban oppressors. “Because

existing.” —Matt Grobar

D E A D L I N E .C O M / AWA R D S L I N E

ODDS

1

On Victorian fantasy series Carnival

10

ODDS

UNITE Faerie meets human in Carnival Row.

The Art of Craft

Dispatching disparate location shoots in favor of a revolutionary digital “volume” stage, The Mandalorian leaned heavily into an evolving approach to visual effects that may change production workflows forever

BY MATT GROBAR

SPACEMAKERS The Mandalorian himself (Pedro Pascal, center) and the show’s crew on the volume stage, with a dynamic digital backdrop projected onto LED panels in 270 degrees.

1

4

COURTESY OF DISNEY+

7

To craft an epic space Western on a TV budget,

2

The volume, made up of 2,200 LED screens in a

3

The videogame engine, married with high resolu-

The Mandalorian eschewed

20x70ft circle, projected

tion environment scans,

location shoots and instead

environments crafted from

had advanced far enough

crafted a digital exterior vol-

plates and digital assets, on

to project photorealistic

ume on a soundstage

Epic Games’ Unreal Engine 4

worlds in real-time

The nascent StageCraft technology relies on age-old

5

The many LED panels were bright enough to offer ambi-

6

The real-time rendering of the footage meant cam-

principles of rear projection

ent lighting to the scenes

era movement could be

and camera perspective,

being shot; actors and props

matched by parallax moves

given a cutting-edge, mod-

seamlessly blended with even

in the renderer, offering il-

ern twist

dynamic lighting changes

lusory perspective

Scenes could be shot on alien landscapes with little

8

Almost 60% of scenes shot for The Mandalorian took

9

A recent tech demo for Unreal Engine 5 suggests

need for green screen chro-

place on the volume. VFX

even further improvements

ma key stages. Post-produc-

supervisor Richard Bluff con-

to come. Could long post-

tion compositing work was

siders StageCraft a game-

production VFX workflows

considerably reduced

changing technology

become a thing of the past?

D E A D L I N E .C O M / AWA R D S L I N E

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Photography by

VIOLETA SOFIA

PEOPLE LIKE US

Just how has Normal People taken the world by storm? Starring unknown actors, the humble story of a love affair between two Irish

schoolkids has smashed ratings records and sparked much online chatter. ANTONIA BLYTH meets the makers of a phenomenon.

14

D E A D L I N E .C O M / AWA R D S L I N E

#1 CRUSH

Clockwise, from left: Marianne (Daisy EdgarJones) and Connell (Paul Mescal) celebrate the new year at home in Sligo, Ireland; Connell wrestles with anxiety as a school student; pillow talk; Marianne on vacation at her family's Italian villa.

THERE’S SOMETHING ODD ABOUT

Normal People. It is, ostensibly, a show about two teenagers who fall in love, then navigate a very typical series of bust-ups and reconciliations. So far, so normal. And the show begins innocently enough. Set in Ireland, we see the popular and sporty Connell (Paul Mescal) get together with awkward school outcast Marianne (Daisy Edgar-Jones). But then comes this weird sorcery. As you watch the couple move from high school to college, somehow the story creeps up on you, tears out your heart, chucks it out the window, and runs it over with a bus.

Based on Sally Rooney’s New York Times

devoted to Connell’s ever-present silver necklace

bestselling novel of the same name, Normal

(@connellschain, 184k followers) and Marianne’s

People elegantly and succinctly shows us how

effortless trademark fringe (@mariannesbangs,

humans mess up our relationships, how we

8.6k followers).

misunderstand each other; how our defenses—

Director and executive producer Lenny

designed to protect us—in fact keep us from the

Abrahamson, the Oscar-nominated helmer

very things we want most in life. The experience

behind Room, rubs his forehead in consternation

of watching it as an adult is to find oneself

as he goes over the viewing figures. “I still can’t

rethinking every missed chance and reviewing

quite believe it,” he says. “The numbers are just

every past relationship.

absolutely unbelievable.” The BBC’s streaming

Such is this Normal People effect that, Edgar-

service, BBC iPlayer, has been the most shocking

Jones reports, when I meet her in a corner of her

for him so far. “I remember the first week was

London bedroom via Zoom, “I have had a few

16-point-something million, which was double

people who are older message me and say [after

the previous highest figure. There was 16 million

watching], ‘I just rekindled my old flame from high

for Normal People, and something like 21 million

school.’ I’ve had two or three people tell me that.”

for the [entire] iPlayer. And the previous record

In Ireland, Normal People is so popular that

[high] was Killing Eve, and that was something

even a rather staid national newspaper ran

like 10 million.” Then there are the Irish viewing

a trivia quiz on the show. In the UK, endless

figures. “RTÉ just published their results from their

articles expound upon the appeal of the

domain. Normal People is three times higher than

previously-unknown Mescal and Edgar-Jones.

the best ever previous drama on the channel. It

On Instagram, accounts have sprung up solely

really blows my mind.” In the U.S., Hulu has not D E A D L I N E .C O M / AWA R D S L I N E

15

released any numbers, but, says Abrahamson, “from what we understand, they seem very happy.”

So, what is this show’s secret sauce? As with every great project, a perfect storm of talent is obviously required, but that doesn’t explain these vast viewing figures. Abrahamson humbly offers that during COVID lockdown, people have needed a show about love and connection. He also says that while this era of high-quality television has hit the crime, thriller, and drama genres hard from the beginning— he cites The Sopranos and The Wire—no one had yet put a love story in that space. And it’s true that elevated television has not featured much in the way of pure romance before.

Normal People’s elevation is largely down to Abrahamson’s gentle hand on the tiller, and the way he deliberately hides his machinations, rather than

“I FEEL LIKE I GOT TO THE POINT WITH DAISY WHERE I KNEW WHAT WE WERE BOTH GOING TO DO BEFORE WE DID IT, WHICH IS LOVELY.” —Paul Mescal

showing them off, which ironically, is the hardest sort of directing there is. As he himself says, “If you’re hiding the scaffolding, then it’s harder to seem like you’ve disappeared, because if you did really disappear, the whole thing would just become documentary or something. So, you’re making all these decisions, but you’re trying to do them in a way that leaves a sense of taking ownership to the audience. It’s more personally meaningful if it feels like something you’ve discovered. I think one of the reasons why people perhaps are affected by Normal People in the way that they are is that they’re encountering something, rather than having somebody predigest it for you and

moments are actually incredibly intimate. And it’s

tell you what’s happening.”

amazing that you can feel safe, and be able to ask,

He points out that without the talent and chem-

the scene is deeper, and more emotional, and sexier

balance of ‘show, don’t tell’ wouldn’t have worked.

because those moments of realness are there.”

“I wouldn’t have had the chance of working at that

From top: Marianne and Connell find their way back to each other in their final year of college; Marianne at home; running an errand together in Italy.

have some dialogue and then cut to a very separate,

audience they are mad about each other, and that

voyeuristic view of bodies. Normal People eschews

is a poor substitute for what seems to the audience

all that. Instead the camera is most often on the

to be just an act of authentic observation.” Given

actors’ faces, and the physical feels like a continua-

that he had actors who could carry this approach,

tion of the dialogue. characters seriously. Abrahamson says, “Quite often,

And thus, he set the tone for the whole series—the

stories centered on that point in people’s lives, and

first half directed by him, the latter six episodes by

on that generation, can have the effect of diminish-

Hettie Macdonald (Howards End).

ing them, as if this was a naïve and silly phase of life,

One much-discussed scene that seems to have

before you’ve learned wisdom. And I thought the

deeply affected viewers sees Marianne losing her

opportunity was really there to make something

virginity to Connell. He asks for her consent in the

about that moment which shows it to be potentially

most perfect way imaginable. “If you want to stop or

the most alive and truthful and intense and lived

anything, we can obviously stop,” he tells Marianne.

part of a person’s journey. I think that’s where the

“If it hurts or anything, we can stop. It won’t be

longing comes from, because there is loads about

awkward. You just say.” The actors seem to con-

that time that I would not go back to, but on the other

nect so openly and honestly that what might be an

hand, there’s an amazing depth of feeling, and how

embarrassing moment becomes sexy. She asks him

intensely you feel things when you’re younger.”

often see on screen.

“What I found so amazing,” Edgar-Jones says, “is

D E A D L I N E .C O M / AWA R D S L I N E

Another thing the show does is take its 17-year-old

that we feel we are not watching them, we are them.

to get a condom. These are conversations we don’t

16

Usually, Abrahamson points out, sex scenes

level, with that depth. I would have had to tell the

Abrahamson sometimes has the camera so close

YOUNG HEARTS

and not have to be clunky or awkward. If anything,

istry of Edgar-Jones and Mescal though, this delicate

When Abrahamson’s longtime producing partner Ed Guiney of Element Pictures first read Rooney’s novel, it was as an unpublished galley, and, since

how much that scene in particular sparked a wider

Element was already developing her first novel,

conversation about first-time scenes. It seems that

Conversations with Friends, Guiney actually hoped

when we come to intimate scenes, those awkward

he wouldn’t like this new one. It would be simpler if

bits are rushed over. This highlights that those

he didn’t want it—surely, he thought, Rooney would

D E A D L I N E .C O M / AWA R D S L I N E

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D E A D L I N E .C O M / AWA R D S L I N E

“ONE OF THE MOST SPECIAL THINGS I GAINED FROM NORMAL PEOPLE WAS MEETING PAUL. BECAUSE IT WAS A SCARY THING, AND WE WERE BOTH VERY SCARED TO GO INTO DOING IT. IT’S A LOT OF PRESSURE TAKING ON CHARACTERS THAT PEOPLE HAVE ALREADY FALLEN IN LOVE WITH, AND THAT WERE LOCKED IN THEIR OWN IMAGINATION.” ­—Daisy Edgar-Jones

not want to have the rights to both her books with

Room with Brie [Larson]. Obviously, the charac-

the same company? “Unfortunately,” he says, “I

ters span age 17 to 22, so I guess that means that

light touches was to pare back the script even

completely fell in love with it.”

you’re not looking for people who are well-known,

further. “What I spend a lot of time doing in

because there aren’t that many well-known

pre-production is removing dialogue,” he says.

actors at that age.”

“[With a book] you start with something blank

Guiney shared the book with Abrahamson, and things began to click into place. Not only did the material really sing for the duo who had made Frank

Mescal was an early find for the team. Com-

What Abrahamson also did beyond those

and you’re adding. Nothing is there if you don’t

together in Ireland, and whose 2015 film Room got

pletely unknown to television, he had done some

decide to describe it. But cameras are a bit

them both Oscar nominations, but the story’s setting

excellent theater work, Guiney says. “We loved

stupid. You take the lens cap off and every-

had to seem almost serendipitous to these two

him from very early days.” Finding Edgar-Jones

thing floods in. And so, I find the process of

friends who’d attended Trinity College together, and

took another couple of months. She had done

removal is a part of really good filmmaking. It’s

who met as 15-year-olds in Ireland. “It was a kind of

some television before, including ITV’s Cold Feet

what you really don’t need. And that’s always

coming together of my own biography, Ed’s biogra-

and the BBC miniseries War of the Worlds.

a challenge in an adaptation.”

phy, and the desire to do something set in our home

When she met Mescal, Edgar-Jones imme-

Edgar-Jones says, “It would be very easy

country,” Abrahamson says. With him on board, the

diately recognized the character from the book.

to take all of the dialogue [from the book] and

BBC greenlit the project.

“I think I was down to the final five girls that they

put it on the page and bring it to the scene.

were seeing,” she says. “I had obviously read the

Often, we’d have that. And then Lenny would

but essential move. A successful but still young

book and [the characters] feel so real. So, it was

say, ‘Let’s cut back. Let’s really allow the audi-

novelist, Rooney had never written a script. “She

very odd then, meeting Paul and being like, ‘I’d like

ence to fill in the gaps.’”

read scripts and she read treatments and she just

to know you, because you’re Connell.’”

Bringing on Rooney as screenwriter was a bold

immersed herself in the how-to of screenwriting,”

For Mescal, the magic was there too—an

Guiney and Abrahamson also knew that the intense, very intimate scenes were

Guiney says, “and then she had a go, and it turns out

experience so ephemeral it’s impossible to

key, and they were aware of the need to

she’s a bloody brilliant screenwriter.” Then, together,

pinpoint. “How do you know when you meet your

protect everybody involved. So, an intimacy

Rooney, Alice Birch (Lady Macbeth) and Mark O’Rowe

best friend?” he says. “Or how do you know when

coordinator was brought in. “We had this

crafted the unicorn of literary adaptations: a script

you meet any potentially lifelong partners, from a

wonderful person,” Guiney says. “A woman

that loses absolutely none of the novel’s poignance

first meeting, that they are going to be that thing?

called Ita O’Brien, who, with Lenny and

and power.

You can’t. It’s a process that builds. But I knew very

Daisy and Paul, and with the DP Suzi Lavelle,

quickly, as we got into the shooting process, that

worked very closely together to create an

seemed made for a television series, the shape of

Daisy was the perfect fit for Marianne as an actor.”

atmosphere so that the actors could actually

them fitting perfectly into 12 half-hour episodes,

Their first chemistry read brought the room

It helped that the chapters of Rooney’s novel

cease to worry about the choreography of

although that shorter length is unusual for a drama.

to tears. Abrahamson describes it thus: “There’s a

those scenes, and could actually act. Because

“In a way, doing 12 half-hours is almost like chaptering

very complicated scene, where she says, ‘I would lie

we had such young actors, we just wanted

it, like a book,” Guiney says. “It just allowed for a more

down and you could do what you wanted to me.’ In

to make sure that they were as comfortable

pleasurable experience of the piece. And we really

the audition we simplified it. And I think we did the

and as protected as possible, had as much

just cleaved to Sally’s book. We’ve done a lot of book

first kiss. And we did that lovely scene where they

agency in how those scenes were done and

adaptations over the years, but I don’t think we’ve

meet each other again in college. Oh my God, it’s so

didn’t feel any pressure. Ita just creates a

ever done anything that’s stayed as close to the

sizzling, that scene. Paul on that day… It was one of

very—to use that well-worn phrase—safe

source material. There are no new characters, there

his great days. When he says to her, ‘You were always

space. But it is a really safe space where really

are really no new plot lines.”

pretty. You’re beautiful,’ there was such an electricity

good work can happen.”

The casting had to be a kind of alchemy. Along

between them. I looked around and Emma Norton,

“I wouldn’t ever sign on to a job now where

with casting director Louise Kiely (The Lobster, Dublin

producer, Catherine Magee, producer, Louise Kiely,

sex is required without an intimacy coordina-

Murders), Guiney says, “Sally was very involved in

casting director, they were all having a cry. I remem-

tor,” Mescal says, “because I can’t imagine

finding the right Connell and Marianne. We wanted

ber just thinking, God, this is one of those onscreen

how you would do it.”

to cast Irish, ideally. And also, Lenny always likes to

relationships that you can really go with very light

cast close in age to the characters. He did that on

touches as a director.”

“Lenny was really keen that [we had] 50-50 nudity,” Edgar-Jones adds, “and D E A D L I N E .C O M / AWA R D S L I N E

19

“CAMERAS ARE A BIT STUPID. YOU TAKE THE LENS CAP OFF AND EVERYTHING FLOODS IN. AND SO, I FIND THE PROCESS OF REMOVAL IS A PART OF REALLY GOOD FILMMAKING. IT’S WHAT YOU REALLY DON’T NEED. AND THAT’S ALWAYS A CHALLENGE IN AN ADAPTATION.” —Lenny Abrahamson, director, executive producer

making sure that was equal, but also that if you were going to use nudity, it wouldn’t just be thrown in for the sake of it, it would be a natural moment that it would occur.”

Lavelle and Abrahamson showed the actors the work of photographer Nan Goldin as a reference point for how relaxed and natural Marianne and Connell are in these scenes. “She did The Ballad of Sexual Dependency, during the ’80s, when she did these amazing photographs, like one of this couple in bed with the woman having dirty feet. Just these amazing observations of human beings.”

Having Macdonald direct the second half of the season was both a practical and tonal decision, Abrahamson says. Part of it was simply not having the time to shoot all 12 episodes himself, and some of it was knowing that in setting the tone, creating the style, and building the crew himself, he wouldn’t feel he was giving up half the show. He also felt that the script, and the original book, naturally fell into two halves. “There’s no massive shift,” he says, “but there is a kind of darkening in the second half. I thought it might be interesting for a really, really good director with their own strong, creative impulses to bring their own vision to it. So, even though it was going to have to work within the tone of what I created in the first block, we didn’t want somebody who was just going to come in and copy that; we wanted somebody with their own voice.”

Macdonald really embraced close camera work in those latter episodes, which fit with Abrahamson’s approach. “Hettie would sometimes say, ‘Okay, we filmed these shots, but this time, this is your secret camera,’” Edgar-Jones says. “This is where you tell the audience what you’re really feeling.’” The ‘secret camera’ was set up close to her face and in such a way that it allowed a kind of private communication.

“I knew Marianne was this very vulnerable and soft person and she had a lot of self-doubt. She wasn’t actually this cold person. So, you give me a secret camera where I could go, ‘Okay, I’ve done all of that bit, but now I’ll show this camera exactly what’s really going on.’ That was really fun, learning skills of film acting. I’ve never really had the chance to do that.

And I really enjoyed that process.”

An intense, months-long shoot, when you’re in almost every scene, and those scenes are deeply emotional, would be tough on any actor. But Mescal and Edgar-Jones developed a genuine friendship that helped lighten the load of the toughest beats. “[Marianne and Connell’s] dynamic is quite different from mine and Paul’s,” Edgar-Jones says, “because they are wonderful, but they are quite serious at times. And I think Paul and I are quite silly and we get hysterical quite quickly and easily. So, if we were ever doing things that were quite emotional, we were able to have a good giggle off screen.”

“Towards the end of the shoot,” Mescal says, “discussions around scenes just happened less and less and less, because—and this is kind of insane—we both knew without speaking to each other how we

20

D E A D L I N E .C O M / AWA R D S L I N E

were going to play the scene. I feel like I got to the

them are romantically over for now, but with the

point with Daisy where I knew what we were both

implication that they might find each other again

going to do before we did it, which is lovely.”

one day. An ending aggravating enough that viewers

Their friendship is something both actors speak of very fondly. “I’ve definitely found a friend, one of my best friends for life,” Mescal says. “If the show had

will surely be clamoring for another season. Would Rooney write a follow-up?

“We’ve talked about the possibility of how

been an absolute failure, that’s something that brings

interesting it would be to check back in with them,”

me massive joy, that I found somebody who is an

Abrahamson says, “but apart from just general

amazing person and who I really enjoy working with.”

musings and over a drink, no, there have been no

“I think Paul and I will always be best friends,” adds

concrete discussions about what it would be like. As

Edgar-Jones. “One of the most special things I gained

Sally says, the book stops where it stops because it

from Normal People was meeting Paul. Because it

feels right. But, I have a sneaking thing in the back of

was a scary thing, and we were both very scared to

my head that if everybody was willing, and if the stars

go into doing it. It’s a lot of pressure taking on charac-

aligned, I’d love to revisit them in five years and find

ters that people have already fallen in love with, and

out what happened, where they are. Is somebody a

that were locked in their own imagination.”

father or a mother? What relationships are they in

Perhaps the scene that best showcases

that then get disrupted by their meeting again? But

Mescal’s work comes when Connell experiences

it would be really strange to pick that up eight weeks

a serious bout of depression at college. While

later with him traveling to New York, I think. There

Marianne, temporarily studying in Sweden and split

needs to be time.” He would want to let the actors

from Connell, tries to support him, even leaving

truly age those years too. “You’d do it for real, you’d

their Skype connection open so she can watch over

do it á la Before Sunset.”

him as he sleeps, his friend from back home has

For now, though, Abrahamson and Guiney will

committed suicide and Connell feels desperately

be working on what Abrahamson calls “a cousin” to

adrift. As Mescal puts it, “The line that really jumped

Normal People—Rooney’s first novel, Conversations

out to me, made me upset when I read it, is when

with Friends—which will be another Hulu series. It’s

he says, ‘Back home people liked me, here I don’t

a love story set in Dublin again, this time between

think people like me that much.’ I was like, Oh, this

two young women, one of whom takes up with the

is fucking brutal. Ultimately, he feels so let down by

husband of their older mutual friend. “But it’s differ-

his life decisions and events, that he says, ‘I thought

ent [from Normal People],” he says, “and we don’t

that if I moved here, I’d feel better, but I don’t, I hate

want to do a sort of secret Season 2 thing.” Surely, he

it here.’ Everything that he thought was going to

will be inundated by Normal People fans? “I hope we

make him feel content in the world has somehow

fulfill their now very high expectations.”

not happened.”

We see Connell in a therapist’s office, first fighting

It seems then, that Marianne and Connell will have to live on in our minds for the foreseeable future.

tears, then sobbing as he describes his feelings, the

Where does Edgar-Jones imagine them? “I don’t

camera barely moving from his face. “You prepare as

know,” she says. “A little bit of me imagines that they’ll

much as you can,” Mescal says of doing emotional

always be in each other’s lives. I just don’t know if

work, “and then you pray to God that something

it would be in the romantic sense, but at the same

happens on the day, I don’t know. I haven’t worked

time, I find that quite hard to believe, because they do

consistently enough to know how to do it.”

have this uniquely special connection. And so, I hope

Edgar-Jones enjoys the way Rooney ultimately shows how much goodness Connell and Marianne have brought to each other’s lives. “The simple thing

that they do end up getting married and have loads of kids.”

Mescal has also given this some thought.

of Marianne saying, ‘Oh, you go to sleep, I’ll stay up

“Connell, I believe, would potentially get married to

on Skype.’ It’s such a simple gesture, but it has a

somebody else,” he says. “It’ll destroy lots of people’s

profound effect on how Connell heals, and eventually

lives along the way, because ultimately they’re going

it builds him up in Episode 10. I think it’s about making

to be drawn. But they will consciously resist the idea

sure that the people you surround yourself with are

that they’re supposed to be together. It’ll be a long

the people that are worthy of your love. Obviously,

process of discovery until they finally find each other

Connell is, but someone like [her other boyfriend]

permanently, I think.” Then he adds, more emphati-

Jamie isn’t worthy of Marianne. It’s never going to

cally, “I really need them to be together. If Sally ever

work. It’s knowing that if you surround yourself with

decides to do the second book or second series, I

people who give you goodness, that can be the most

need them to be together.”

formative thing, the most wonderful gift that human beings give each other.”

As with the novel, the ending of the series leaves Marianne and Connell at an ambiguous crossroads.

Why does he think they, and actually people in

LOVEFOOLS

From top: Marianne poses for her photographer boyfriend Lukas (Lancelot Ncube) while she and Connell are on a break; Connell visits a therapist while deaing with depression; Marianne suffers through the festive season, given her own dysfunctional family.

Left: Behind the scenes on Normal People.

general, as he put it, consciously resist, or sabotage that kind of life-changing, intense connection?

He leans toward his laptop camera, revealing a

Connell has been offered an opportunity to study

silver necklace exactly like Connell’s. “I think it’s nuts,”

creative writing in New York, and Marianne per-

he says, “and I think we all do it, and I don’t have an

suades him to accept, suggesting things between

answer. If I had that answer, I’d be a billionaire.” ★ D E A D L I N E .C O M / AWA R D S L I N E

21

D THE DIALOGUE

EMMY CONTENDERS/ DRAMA

Kerry

I had a wall of my dressing room at the theatre dedicated to images of a lot of these young men.

Trayvon Martin, Tamir Rice, Philando Castile... And

WA S H I N GT O N

★

★

★

★

★

women, too, like Sandra Bland. When a new incident happened, I would add pictures to that wall, because it felt to me like the play was, in some ways, a magnificent prayer to the unraveling of these injustices. I was constantly adding pictures to it, until it took up the entire wall.

With American Son, the Scandal alumnus is tackling the human cost of racial injustice head-on

BY J O E U T I C H I

Sadly, nothing in American Son is new. For me, and for a lot of people in the Black community, this has always been present. Stories like these precede the introduction of these little personal

IT HAS BEEN A BUSY 12 MONTHS FOR Kerry Washington, with a key part in Hulu’s Little Fires Everywhere, a directorial stint on HBO’s Insecure, and an exec producer role on Sundance doc The Fight occupying her time. In November she brought American Son, the critically acclaimed play written

by Christopher Demos-Brown and first performed by her on Broadway, to Netflix as a TV movie. And with every passing day, its powerful story about a Black mother piecing together the details of the last night in her son’s life after a confrontation with police officers has become ever more prescient.

computers and video cameras we all walk around with today. And I think, for a long time, people thought that Black people were making a big deal out of something that wasn’t really there. “That person must have deserved it.” Now, because we have the power of capturing these images and this behavior, we’re seeing there’s a different reality at hand. I think that’s one of the reasons that it was so important and so fantastic that Christopher Demos-Brown put the cellphone in the play, because that’s really a part of the dynamic of how these stories unfold now.

How did the play American Son first

mance that are joyful. There are definitely

come to you?

moments of connection between them

So much of the play is about the family’s

I had done my first play on Broadway about

as a couple, and there are also moments

dynamic; Kendra is Black and her estranged

10 years ago. It was called Race, and I origi-

when she remembers her son as a baby. I

partner Scott is white.

nated a role for David Mamet. He directed

learned also to use those moments as real

One of the things I love about it is that, in many

and it was an amazing experience.

guideposts. They were markings to land in

ways, the film is about how you figure out how to

some joy in the play, and to be able to then

love somebody when the cultural divide is so big.

Richards, he’d read that it was going to be

go back into the nightmare for eight shows

How can we listen to each other, and learn from

Scandal’s final season, and he called me and

a week.

each other, and love one another? I think this

The producer of that play, Jeffrey

said, “You have to come back to Broadway.”

couple, they do love each other tremendously.

I hadn’t had the opportunity, because our

How much did the injustice of the world

They are just faced with cultural circumstances

hiatuses just weren’t long enough in network

around you drive your decision to step

that feel insurmountable to them.

television to do theatre.

into this role?

So, I leapt at the opportunity, but it

In some ways, I feel like Kendra and Scott are

Certainly, part of what drew me to the role

stand-ins for us as a society. For people who are

wasn’t really until I read the material. At

was the fact I was coming off seven years on

embodying inclusivity and those who are resist-

first, I was like, “No, I think I’d like to take a

Scandal, where I was playing someone who

ing it. How do we hear each other? And I think

nap.” Because the workload on network TV

was an arbiter of the system. My father and

finding the surprising commonalities between us

is bananas. But when I read American Son, I

I in the show, we had designed the system

is part of the power of the medium.

knew there was no turning back. I knew this

and we were enacting it upon people and

play had to live in the world, and I wanted to

manipulating it. To play someone who was

One of the truths so seldom acknowledged

be part of making that happen. So, I came

outside of the system struggling to find

about a move towards more inclusive

on as an actor and a producer.

agency within it was, I thought, a really good

storytelling is that there’s nothing to lose

exercise and exploration for me.

from hearing new stories, and so much to

The journey for your character in the

I think it’s exciting that our narratives are

gain from finding those commonalities you

piece, Kendra, is raw and it’s intense.

being drawn in this direction, because I think

speak of.

Where did you find that stamina?

we’re realizing that it’s not up to the system.

I think that’s a beautiful observation. I think

What Kendra asked of me, I couldn’t pos-

The system only works if we’re involved. We

we’re becoming less and less afraid to allow our

sibly do 24 hours a day. When I wasn’t at the

have to realize that we hold the power, and

protagonists to look a lot of different ways. As

soundstage or in the theatre, I was deeply

that if we unleash that individual power, we

members of communities that are labeled ‘other’,

entrenched in the joy of my life. Thank God

can create systemic change.

we’ve always known that we could see a story

that my family was with me in New York.

about something that wasn’t exactly our experi-

In many of the ways that she was broken, I

Did you keep the stories of Trayvon Mar-

ence and say, “Oh, I see myself in that.” To allow

felt really blessed. I could flip and be on the

tin, Oscar Grant, Walter Scott, and so,

that shift, where white people or straight people

other side of that heartbreak in my own life.

so many more in your mind as you went

can see themselves in the stories of a more dis-

through the experience?

enfranchised experience, that is so exciting. ★

But I also found moments in the perfor-

PHOTOGRAPH BY

Chris Chapman

D E A D L I N E .C O M / AWA R D S L I N E

23

Rose

when Gloria breaks down and screams at McGovern’s aide about how he, at the 11th

BY R N E

★

★

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hour, totally backtracks on the feminists and betrays them after saying that he will allow them on the convention floor. Nora Ephron wrote in her very famous essay about this, and that Gloria [was] the unflappable, very serene sort of face of the moment; you never could catch her having a moment,

Mrs. America’s Gloria Steinem explores both the nuances of the feminist icon and the movement itself

BY A N T H O N Y D ’A L E S SA N D RO

and then she has this moment where she screams at him on the floor and is very upset. So, it was really important for Dahvi to capture that, to see her finally crack, in a way, because she has always been presented as very stoic.

OSE BYRNE HAS DEMONSTRATED fierce comedic timing in movies like Bridesmaids, Spy, the Neighbors franchise, and this year’s Like a Boss. But the Australian native’s turn as feminist trailblazer and Ms. magazine co-founder Gloria Steinem in FX’s limited series Mrs. America reminds us of her chameleon-level expertise. Yes, the wig and the sunglasses are a plus, but Byrne plunges into the complexities of the ERA proponent’s public image and personal life with a great subtlety, displaying not only Steinem’s inspirational attributes, but her flaws as well. Byrne was previously Emmy nominated in the supporting category for Damages in 2009 and 2010.

R

The series builds Gloria and Phyllis up as foes, but we don’t see them go at it. Rather it’s Phyllis and Betty Friedan who debate on stage. Gloria even remarks that she would never get in a public scuffle like that. It’s almost as though Gloria is very conscious of her brand. Is that how you found her?

Gloria had no interest in trying to highlight Phyllis’ message, and she knew with her power and the media behind her, and her being the face of the movement, whether she liked it or not—there’s that reluctance in her you see at the beginning—she knows

On the show, Gloria has a fascinating

smart about it, and doesn’t feel like it needs

Mrs. America, did the creators always

means of negotiating with the men to

to have any more light shined on it, because

have you in mind for Gloria Steinem?

get her agenda across, like when she’s

the media are already shining a lot of light

I was approached by Dahvi [Waller], and

dealing with George McGovern’s advisor

onto Phyllis, and perhaps disproportionately.

we had a couple of great conversations,

to get the abortion platform presented

I feel like it’s less branding and more just a

and I was just intrigued by the project as

at the Democratic Convention.

strategy of expanding one’s power.

a whole. The character, in a way, is almost

Well, I see it with not just Gloria, but with all

the last port of entry, just because the pace

of these women, whether it’s Gloria or Phyl-

So, let’s talk about the glasses and the

itself was so fascinating and interesting, and

lis [Schlafly] or Shirley or Jill Ruckelshaus,

hair. Did you put them on and every-

the way a historical piece, to me, was so

and it’s because that’s how you had to get

thing else just flowed?

relevant to just reverse-engineer where we

business done then. These women, you

It certainly was a big part. Trying to recre-

are today, and how we have got to this place

know, grew up and were in their 20s and

ate her silhouette was essential... You know

now in our politics, and how divisive it is, and

30s in the ‘50s and ‘60s, where there was

she’s just so recognizable. She’s an iconic

how divided we are.

such rampant sexism and such rampant

figure. There are not many people like that,

discrimination, and they had to figure out

that you instantly know from a silhouette.

eccentric, and you know, feminists often get

a way to deflect and move onto getting

It’s very rare, so, to have that, to really try to

the bad rap of being humorless, and Dahvi’s

what their end goal was. She was a defense

capture that without making it a caricature,

definitely not that, so I knew that this would

expert. I feel like it’s more of a circumstantial

was a fine line, and we worked very carefully

be a really fresh, incredible period of history,

thing that women have always, throughout

to try to achieve that.

which is actually largely almost forgotten

history, had to figure out how to get their

and not known about. And you really realize,

agenda in a patriarchal society. So, you see

Looking back at your career, which proj-

watching it and learning about it, how as a

how they’ve become accustomed to it, and

ect really shot you out of the cannon?

woman, we really stand on the shoulders

how they still achieve what they’re striv-

I did a movie called Troy with Brad Pitt when

of these women who came before us, the

ing to achieve, and it still happens now, to

I was 23, and for me, that was like being

Second Wave movement. Without Shirley

a lesser degree, I think, because there are

shot out of a cannon. Doing a film of that

Chisholm, there is no Black Lives Matter.

more people being held accountable, but

scale with these huge movie stars, coming

Without Gloria Steinem, there’s no #MeToo.

I think the series really examines that from

from Australia, and having done plays and

All the work these women did really precipi-

many different perspectives.

TV shows. That experience was quite unlike

She’s very charming and really funny and

tated where we’re at today.

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D E A D L I N E .C O M / AWA R D S L I N E

That’s a very well-documented moment

anything I could prepare for. ★

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Andrew H. Walker

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the attention it will bring, and she’s very When you were first approached with

Ya h y a

ter. I get up to Episode 6 and I’m working on my version of Dr. Manhattan, saying, “Wow, I get to play two different characters.”

I went in and started to do my research.

A B D U L - M AT E E N I I

Then, I get to the episode where I get to

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playing four.” I’m playing three different ver-

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The Watchmen star delves into the power of portraying Dr. Manhattan

BY M AT T G RO BA R

flex a little bit more, and I find out that, “Oh, I’m not playing two characters. I’m actually sions of Dr. Manhattan, and Cal, as well.

So, this job, for me, was really an actor’s dream. I got to do a lot of character work.

I got to do work that was rooted in very

FTER HIS EXPERIENCE WITH Watchmen, Yahya Abdul-Mateen II has been thinking a lot about disruption. In the show’s timely exploration of systemic racism within America, the actor plays two roles— stay-at-home dad Cal, and the Black god known as Dr. Manhattan. The HBO series’ reception was so powerful that it changed the way Abdul-Mateen thinks about art, and the roles he wants to pursue, going forward. “Watchmen was the first thing that I was a part of, where I saw its potential to be a change agent,” he says. “That was a really good feeling, and I want that feeling

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important history, but I got to do physical work; I got to do vocal work, and really challenge myself to test my limits, so that I could show as much variety as the story required, and that was really a gift.

Was it challenging to inhabit the life experience of a god?

Well, I had to try to make it simple. There was no way that I could play all of these things at one time. I think a good actor would try to play two things at one time; sometimes, it’s hard enough to do one thing. But I wanted to make sure that he had

What resonated with you, when you

uncomfortable. I’m very proud of being part

humanity. He is a god, but at the same time,

read the scripts for Watchmen?

of a show that had the dialogues that made

I said, “Well, he’s a god who left earth, be-

From the very first episode, we were into

people uncomfortable, in the ways that is

cause it was too much for him to bear. Why

that story of the massacre in Oklahoma,

important for us, as a society, to be uncom-

would a god come back?” The answer to

and the way that it was very descriptive and

fortable, and to look at our own selves, so

that was because he wanted to be in touch

detailed, and leaned into that history in a

that we can get back on the right path and

with humanity.

way I hadn’t seen before, I knew it was doing

start to heal, and start to weed out the bad

something special.

apples, in a sense.

I got each story one at a time, and as the

So, I made it my mission to make him a god-like figure, but to have him be someone who was also accessible, and who also had

scripts continued to come in and unfold,

You were cast in a supporting role, then

a desire to be human. I tried to imbue him

I saw the way they were writing this story

found out a couple of episodes into

with patience, and understanding, and a lot

about heroes, about the often-untold side

production that you’d also be playing

of love, but then also make him a bit distant,

of American history. They were being very

Dr. Manhattan.

as well. Because if you’re a god, there are

relentless and courageous with the content

Harking back to the material in the first epi-

some things he couldn’t afford to relate to.

they were writing, telling the story of sys-

sode, Watchmen was a great opportunity for

temic racism in America, and the story of

a young actor, for myself to step in and play

acter, to creating the physicality, I looked

generational trauma, while also being a love

the role of Cal, supporting Regina King and

towards voice samples of people in my life

story and a really exciting hero’s journey, and

playing a husband who went against the

who I thought were hyper-intelligent, and

that was very exciting.

typical images that we see of a husband. He

tried to model myself after those voices,

Outside of the cast and the excellent

was a stay-at-home father and husband,

people whose vocal posture was differ-

artistic company, it’s really nice to be doing

who was comfortable in his position, as a

ent than my own. I looked at Steve Jobs;

work that also speaks to the state of the

protector and a support system for his wife.

I looked at the Dean of the Yale School of

world. We filmed this in 2018 and ’19, when

That was amazing, to be in that role, and

Drama, James Bundy; I looked at Damon

the world was a lot quieter than it is right

telling that story well. Cal wasn’t a guy who

Lindelof, and I tried to make a combination,

now, but still, a lot of things were going on

was restless, out trying to be something

and figure out some of the things that were

underneath. So, that definitely spoke to

else. That wasn’t a point of conflict between

common amongst them.

me. One would look at it right now and the

him and his wife. So, Cal, in and of himself,

impulse is to say, “Man, Watchmen was right

was really a gift. Then, I found out that I was

was fun to experiment with, but it all came

on time.” Or maybe, “Watchmen was ahead

playing Dr. Manhattan. Damon [Lindelof]

back to humanity. It all came back to the

of its time.” But the truth is that, if we look at

brought me in his office and revealed that

theme of, how does this character use all of

history, our Watchmen is probably 50 or 60

to me, and of course, I had the moment of

those tools to get back to what he wanted,

years late. I think our Watchmen was needed

disbelief and excitement, but then I was

to get the thing that he wanted, which was

because we talked about those issues head

very, very excited about the opportunity to

a second chance at love, and a second

on, in a way that did make a lot of people

transform it and make it a different charac-

chance at being human? ★

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D E A D L I N E .C O M / AWA R D S L I N E

Then, when it came to creating the char-

I found this whole new voice, and that

PHOTOGRAPH BY

Michael Buckner

Kaitlyn

Marie, and she said that she found a lot of closure from the show, and that she thought

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it was amazing.

What was that like, hearing that?

I was just sort of speechless. I don’t even know. It’s so overwhelming. The only thing I could think of is, what more do I need?

Hearing from her is all that really matters

Unbelievable’s traumatic true story proved life-changingly moving and important for its lead actress

BY A N T O N I A B LY T H

because we were all given such a privilege that she was giving us her story to tell to the world. Hearing her reaction, hearing her thoughts, and knowing that she saw it, watched it and ended up loving it and got

ASED ON A PULITZER PRIZE-WINNING article by T. Christian Miller of ProPublica and Ken Armstrong of The Marshall Project, and an episode of the podcast This American Life, Netflix’s limited series Unbelievable follows the true story of teenager Marie Adler, played by Kaitlyn Dever, as she tries to report being raped in her home, only to find herself disbelieved, denied, and even prosecuted for lying. Toni Collette and Merritt Wever co-star as the dogged detectives who ultimately give Adler her life back. For Dever, this harrowing story was truly a 180-degree turn from her comedic role in the film Booksmart, further proving the breadth and depth of her talent.

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closure from it, is just really overwhelming, because we all came together to do this for her and for survivors everywhere. It really meant a lot to me.

There’s this expectation of an ‘appropriate’ response to being raped or abused.

What did the show teach you about it?

I learned so much about sexual assault and trauma and the aftermath. All of it has been such an extreme learning experience for me.

I think what the series does so well is that it really shows that no one can really know how someone will react, not only with trauma, the experience, but also the trauma of retelling

You’ve called this show the hardest

take advantage of that ever and I didn’t want

the experience multiple times. And the show

thing you’ve done in your career.

to do it half-way. It was really, really tough

really walks us through the process of what

When I say that, I think about not only me,

but it definitely felt like we were all coming

it’s like post-assault. How people respond to

but all of the hard work that everyone put

together to make something really impor-

trauma is not always the same. The police in

into it. It was such a team effort. And I really

tant, and that felt worth it.

Marie’s case make a series of mistakes and

do mean it when I say it was the hardest

they cast a lot of doubt around her. Even do-

thing I’ve ever done. I think it was a lot of

What sort of interaction, if any, have you

ing those scenes with the detectives, it was

things combined that made it difficult, one

had with Marie?

so, so tragic. And throughout the process

being that when I first read the script and

When I was given this opportunity, it was

she encounters police that really just didn’t

read about the story and listened to the

the first thing I thought of, to talk to her and

have the proper training to ask her

podcast and read the article, I was angry. I

maybe meet her. But also, at the same time,

the questions that were needed. She just

was feeling a lot of anger but at the same

I was having conflicting feelings because

completely shuts down. She uses her on-

time, my heart was breaking for Marie and all

I knew that the circumstances on this

and-off switch and she just shuts everything

of the other survivors that are talked about

project were very, very different, and I quickly

off, understandably. It was really incredible to

in the article and in our show. I think that

learned that this kind of trauma affects

learn this through this show. And it’s been in-

those emotions overtook my body and my

someone for the rest of their life, so I really

credible to see that people are learning from

brain the whole duration of the shoot.

wanted to be extra careful with that. It was

watching it as well, which is really moving.

a conversation that I had with [showrunner] Susannah Grant and [director] Lisa

That awful scene where the male

the article. That was before I had even gone

Cholodenko when we were in our prep

detectives say, “Are you sure you didn’t

and auditioned for it, so by the time I was

stages. I asked them what the right thing to

imagine it?” We see the self-doubt on

given the opportunity to play Marie, and we

do was, because obviously I knew I had all of

your face. How was shooting that?

started a prep process, I was already kind

this amazing journalism to refer to, and all of

I had done all of this prep, then in that scene,

of upset and frustrated by it. It’s just such

this great source material. I just wanted to

I ended up feeling like a little kid, and I didn’t

a tragic, tragic story. All those emotions

ultimately respect her privacy and that was

expect to feel that way at all. I think it was

coupled with the fact that I was really put-

something that was very important to them

when I got into the room with those two

ting so much pressure on myself, because

and to Netflix. Then, after the show came

actors. I know Marie knows what the truth

I felt like this kind of opportunity doesn’t

out, Susannah Grant said, “I forwarded you

is, and yet for some reason everything is so

come around that often. You rarely get an

an email. You should really take a look at it.”

foggy and confusing, and I feel like I’m in

opportunity to really do some real good, and

And I went and looked at it and that was

trouble because I’m telling the truth and that

give a voice to the voiceless. I didn’t want to

from Ken Armstrong, who had spoken to

doesn’t feel right. That was surprising. ★

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PHOTOGRAPH BY

Taylor Jewell

I NV I S I ON /AP/S H U T T E RSTOC K

I read the first script for the first episode, and then I listened to the podcast and read

Gugu

came to light, but how mindful of that did you have to be when you were approaching this character?

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Obviously, we always knew we were dealing with a fictional drama. Kerry Ehrin, the showrunner and lead writer, had done so much research with the writing team. I think it was a testament to the research how eerily accurate some of the scenarios were. But it

As The Morning Show’s Hannah, she highlighted an abuse of power and the desperate need for cultural change

BY A M A N DA N ’ D U K A

was never based on anybody specific in that way. I think that they wanted it to be relevant but also universal in a way that women could relate to it, and men hopefully can relate to it, or at least see a new light shared on expe-

UGU MBATHA-RAW KNEW HER role on The Morning Show would be a challenge.

As Hannah Shoenfeld, the talent booker who survives a sexual assault, she provided a crucial turning point in the Apple TV+ series that centers on the sexual misconduct that plagued a news organization. It was her story, and ultimately, her tragic fate, that put a spotlight on unchecked abuses of power. Mbatha-Raw tapped into a gamut of emotions to showcase a trauma that so many women are only too familiar with, and hopes that Hannah’s tragic ending can serve as a cautionary tale, showing the value in not staying silent.

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riences that maybe they’d overlooked.

There was a healing quality to the story.

Not just the Hannah story but with all the stories of the other women, too.

To see so many defined female characters in one show, not just archetypes, they’re nuanced and complex, and there are so many of them. Not just Hannah, obviously Reese [Witherspoon]’s and Jennifer Aniston’s characters, Karen Pittman, Bel Powley, there’s such a spread of different perspectives on that world and I appreciated the nuances.

Being a woman of color, I’ve always been told we have to be twice as good as our

First off, I have to ask, how are you do-

certainly in terms of the show, what happens

counterparts, especially white men. Was

ing? The world is super unsettling right

in Episode 10 of The Morning Show is an

that something that you felt Hannah

now. How are you holding on?

awakening. Hopefully, the emotional trigger

was dealing with?

I’m doing well today. There are ups and

of that moment will sustain the evolution of

I think that that was obviously an underlying

downs. It’s sort of a day-by-day, week-by-

the culture.

pressure for her. It wasn’t overtly expressed in the storyline, but we did talk about her

think it has been an incredible time and

You’re very vocal about Black Lives

backstory. I think in the quest for equality,

I’m inspired. I’m inspired to think that even

Matter and what’s going on with racial

gender equality and racial equality, this is a

though we’re going through so many chal-

injustices, with police brutality.

big conversation we’re having culturally now.

lenges, that hopefully positive things are

It’s really a seismic shift and a catalyst and

But in the quest for that, certainly when

going to come from everything.

an awakening culturally. I’ve always believed

we were making The Morning Show, and in

that Black lives matter, that’s not something

terms of Hannah’s perspective on that, I

Your character Hannah was an impetus

new to me, but I think what is fascinating

think that she probably had internalized the

for change, which fits very well with

is when the culture also simultaneously

culture that she was in to such a degree that

the times we’re in. It seems like some-

awakens, and there is a sense of momen-

she was just trying to progress and trying to

thing terrible has to happen, like what

tum, and I think that that’s when real change

do the best she could.

happened with George Floyd, for people

can actually happen. Beyond anything that

to actually take notice and see what

feels like activism on the fringe, this is activ-

The sad truth is people still question or

people have been experiencing for years.

ism in the front and center of our culture,

judge survivors of abuse.

I know. It’s very sad that there was a sacrifice

and it’s an international conversation that is

There’s so much going through Hannah’s

in that way that it becomes a catalyst.

happening now. So that, to me, as much as

mind in terms of what will the implications

Certainly, in terms of The Morning Show,

it’s like giving birth, there’s so much pain that

will be. I think that to actually see those

not to say it had to be that way, but I think

needs to happen, but then for a new system

beats, and working with Michelle MacLaren

sometimes when you’re dealing with institu-

and hopefully a more equal way of living.

who directed the episode, making it much

tions, and you’re dealing with cultures that

There has to be a reckoning and there has to

more about the thought process for Hannah

are very slow-moving and set in their ways

be discomfort. I think it’s part of the process.

as well as the physical element was very im-

that unfortunately, like you say, sometimes

portant. So, I trusted the female leadership

there has to be something so jolting and so

This show came at a time when a similar

behind the camera. They really wanted to

shocking and so sad that it awakens people.

scandal rocked The Today Show. I know

show a different side and in detail, a nuanced

Both in the culture that we’re in now, but

this show was written before all of that

side of that experience. ★

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Christopher Smith

I NV I S I ON /AP/S H U T T E RSTOC K

week process. But today I’m doing well. I

The

Partnership No. 4

HILLARY CLINTON & NANETTE BURSTEIN

p

Hillary Clinton and Nanette Burstein first met in 2018, two years after the presidential election that shook the world. Burstein (American Teen, The Kid Stays in the Picture) was chosen to make a documentary based on behind-the-scenes footage captured in 2016 by Clinton’s staff. Hillary, a four-part series, premiered on Hulu in March, and in 35 hours of interviews with Burstein, Clinton addressed everything from growing up as a feminist, to her devastating electoral loss to Donald Trump. In between are key sections about Clinton’s time in the U.S. Senate, serving as Barack Obama’s Secretary of State, and decades of experiences with husband Bill Clinton, one of many candid on-camera interviewees. In a Zoom conversation with Dade Hayes, and featuring portraiture by Michael Buckner, Clinton and Burstein discuss Hillary and the tumult of 2020. This presidential election year, now also defined by COVID-19 and sweeping protests against racism, has thrust their historical record into a vibrant dialogue with the present.

downs, as one would on a campaign trail. This is what she’s like with her staff. This is how she, and they, operated in this tumultuous, exciting and really conflicted campaign.

Did you anticipate the footage being most of the running time?

Burstein: It is such an amazing opportunity to show it. But I also felt that I didn’t want to just tell the story of the campaign, that that was limiting in scope and too soon, too raw. I just felt like, more than anything, there’s such a bigger story to tell if everyone agrees to it. Secretary Clinton, you were open to the idea of looking at your whole life, still using this footage is a way of seeing you in this unguarded way, but really getting to know you as a person. So much of her life was both influenced by the arc of the women’s movement, and she influenced it. And never had I seen that more clearly in one personal story than in this. As a feminist and

Nanette Burstein: It’s so lovely to see your face.

are in China, one is a biotech company here in the

someone of the Generation X that was affected by

It’s been a couple months.

United States that actually started testing with FDA

the national spotlight of her career, this couldn’t

Hillary Clinton: I know.

approval about two months ago. And there’s the

have been a more important topic for me to take

Burstein: How’s it been in Chappaqua [NY]?

Oxford research, which most people are putting

on. So it was exciting that she, when I explained

Clinton: It’s been very calm. People seem to be

at the top of the list. They are beginning to test on

the arc and the framework, was on board to be

both anxious to get out and get back to their lives,

thousands of people in Italy and a few other places.

unfiltered and share her personal feelings about her

but they’ve also been very respectful about mask

They’re very hopeful. I’m not going to say confident,

entire life story.

wearing and social distancing. I hope that sustains

but hopeful.

In watching the series, did you find there was

itself because I think New Yorkers, we were all so shocked by the intensity of the virus and what it

There’s such intimacy and immediacy in the

a particular sequence or moment where you

did to us, that people seem to be more willing to

Hillary footage we see from 2016. We get to see

gained any new insight, even though you had

exercise some responsibility. But the city’s going to

a number of unguarded moments.

yourself lived it?

start opening up and I don’t know quite how that’s

Clinton: The people who followed me throughout

Clinton: I really think the biggest insight was the

going to play out.

the campaign were part of a small group of young

one that Nanette just expressed. After looking at

Burstein: It’s going to be tough. I don’t know how

videographers who were everywhere. They had total

those thousands of hours of footage, she came

New York ever returns to any kind of normal life

access. This project really started as a behind-

back, and she met with me and said, “Look, this is

until there’s a vaccine.

the-scenes look at the 2016 campaign. That’s

much more than a story about a campaign. It’s re-

Clinton: That’s the way a lot of people feel right

what I initially agreed to do because the campaign

ally much more than a story about you. It is a story

now. Who knows? I mean, this is such a big un-

owned the footage. We had 2,000 hours sitting

where you would be the subject, but you would be

known. We are all just making it up as we go. It’s

around. People said, “Well, there’ve been some re-

placed into the arc of women’s history over the last

just tragic that we have had such a lousy leadership

ally interesting retrospectives on campaigns. Since

50-plus years, and American political history. How

and bad communication from the very beginning.

you have this footage, why don’t you look at doing

those two intersect, how they conflict, how they

Cross your fingers and your toes, guys.

that?” That’s what we originally decided to do. And

have reinforced one another from time to time.”

that project itself then was run by Propagate. They

She asked if I would be up for really not only sharing

Do you have high confidence in the level of

decided to hire a director, and Nanette came out by

my very personal feelings and reactions about the

scrutiny the vaccine will get? Dr. Anthony

far as their top choice.

events of my own life, but also helping to reflect on

Fauci has said that he would block anything

Burstein: The footage was this incredible asset.

this much larger story. That was the central insight,

that isn’t ready for mass deployment, but

These women were there filming her so often that

because a lot of people who have written or ana-

some fear the White House wants to rush

no one really could tell me how much they actually

lyzed or talked about me never really understood

something out to score political points. Do

captured. It was just part of the embroidery, which

that larger context. It was always too much about

you worry about that?

is the best way to film people. What was really

me and too little about the contextual history of

Clinton: Yeah, I do worry about it. Look, vaccines

unique about the footage was no one expected

these two historic tides, the women’s movement

are really complicated. The flu vaccine changes

this to ever be part of a documentary at the time.

and the changes in American political history. And

every year, trying to figure out how to outsmart

So, people were able to be themselves on camera.

She didn’t tell my life story chronologically. She

the influenza virus. My daughter is a PhD in public

And there was no limit set on me. The floodgate

went back and forth in my life, but used what was

health and she teaches at the Mailman School

was open. One of the criticisms of Secretary Clinton

happening in the larger world around me to make

at Columbia, so I rely on her to filter through all of

is, “Oh, we don’t know who she really is,” or, “She

these important points.

the information. There are dozens of companies

seemed guarded.” And this is the way of just get-

and research scientists trying to get a vaccine,

ting rid of all of that. Here she is. This is her. She’s

Right after the election, you retreated from

but the four that she knows the most about, two

charming, she’s funny, she goes through ups and

public life. But then, you re-emerged on social

PHOTOGRAPH BY

Michael Buckner

D E A D L I N E .C O M / AWA R D S L I N E

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media and in 2017, you wrote a book about

that there could have been, and maybe should be,

just not. So that creates a lot of backlash.

your experience. By the time this documentary

a retrospective at some time that kind of puts to

Clinton: I just don’t understand how they can so

started shooting, were you feeling more game

rest some of the anxieties and worries that people

manipulate people to be protesting something that

to confront everything? It cannot have been an

had about the process, because they were ginned

would help them. How is that? I mean, we’ve seen

easy thing to do.

up. They were ginned up by the Russians. They were

so much of that in the Trump years. How is it that

Clinton: I did think there was an important story

ginned up by my primary opponent’s supporters.

our politics can be so maneuvered so that people

that needed to be told and I’m very glad that I did.

who would benefit from having their pre-existing

Not all of it was pleasant. A lot of it was challeng-

OK, so forget the Russians and the DNC. Much

condition taken care of, for example, or having their

ing, and painful, even, but it really came out in a way

more important question: What about the

children still covered by insurance, what is it that

that I give her all the credit for, because I don’t even

baby pictures we see in the opening credits

works to agitate them to the point of making them

know where she found some of the footage she

and in the first episode?

angry and upset? We’re living through that again.

found. Some of the people she interviewed, I didn’t

Clinton: I saw some for the first time. I couldn’t

We’re living through protests over governors trying

know had been interviewed, and I was fascinated by

believe where she got them all.

to keep us safe by closing businesses and facilities,

that. So, I came away from it saying, “OK, yeah, this

and people showing up with their automatic weap-

is about me, it’s about my life, I get that, but wow,

That’s amazing.

ons. This is something that, really, has yet to be fully

there’s so much more here.” I think it’s part of the

Burstein: This is what I meant before. It wasn’t just

understood, and understood to the point that it can

reason why it’s been so positively received, because

the time she gave me, and the willingness to share

be contended with.

I think people feel that.

her innermost thoughts and feelings, but it was

Burstein: One thing that I still find remarkable

also providing a lot of things people hadn’t seen

What lessons for the America of 2020 are

today is that Secretary Clinton agreed to do this. I

before. She had these family albums dating back to

there from what you went through?

mean, she got the larger concepts and the im-

her grandparents, which we were able to scan. And

Clinton: Hopefully, enough people have seen the

portance. But for a public figure who has been

there was a storage locker at the Clinton Library

contrast now that they’re not going to be fooled

examined to the extent she has, and has been wary

of all of these snapshot photos from the ’70s, and

again, but there’s no guarantee about the upcoming

of the media, and who didn’t know me very well, to

’80s, mainly from their time in Arkansas. From them

election. We have to keep doing everything we can

take that leap of faith without having creative con-

as an early couple, to getting married, to having

to register people to vote, and make sure they can

trol and give her time and energy, and just trust that

baby Chelsea. They were so wonderful, and real, and

vote, and try to prevent all of the efforts that gov-

I would do her story justice, is pretty remarkable.

even the ’70s, orange-y kind of film footage itself

ernors and mayors and local election officials are

was so indicative of the time. That was amazing. On

undertaking to prevent people from voting or having

One thing left out is the divisions within the

just a filmic level, it gave you this intimate look at her

their vote count. The material in the documentary

Democratic Party. In the film Secretary Clinton

life in a way that we hadn’t seen.

is so relevant to where we are right now and the

dismisses Bernie Sanders as an unpopular

Clinton: Then in addition to some of the baby pic-

challenges we face, and how we’re going to have

senator and a career politician. But the film

tures, and some of the people interviewed, the fact

to defeat these forces of racism, and anti-science,

omits the nomination process and the conven-

that Nanette found footage of me being burned in

and anti-public health and everything that is at the

tion. Sanders and his supporters feel he was

effigy [in 1993].

forefront right now.

frozen out of a pre-determined process. Bitter-

Burstein: I feel exactly the same way you do about

ness over that still lingers. Why skip it?

That sequence is really compelling.

what’s happening now, but you try to share that

Burstein: I did get the interviews in, thinking that,

Clinton: I’d never really seen it. So, that’s the kind of

with people on the other side, and they’re just going

“OK, I might cover this.” But my thought in general

‘wow’ moment for me watching the documentary.

to get their back up. But if you look at something

approaching the ’16 campaign was always trying to

I’m going, like, “Wow, I was trying to get everybody

that happened 20, 30 years ago and show it, then

not to get too inside baseball, because I’m trying

healthcare, and look, they’re burning me in ef-

people can see it for what it is, and you can under-

to do something complicated. I’m trying to tell the

figy for trying to change our healthcare system.”

stand how these things that are in people’s self-

arc of a life story, the arc of partisan politics, and

Having gone through so many of these experi-

interest just become politicized so that they fight

the women’s movement. I’m using this footage, but

ences, and run up against all of these real negative

against their own self-interest. It’s crazy.

I’m not trying to completely re-litigate ’16. It’s a fine

anti-progress forces for decades, I know how hard

line to walk. So, yes, there is this story, but it doesn’t

this is. I know how hard it is to get things done, and

What has your experience been over these past

pertain to the bigger themes. It doesn’t really

to get things changed, and to stay on a progressive

few weeks, watching the country go through

pertain to Secretary Clinton’s character. There were

track when the other side is so well-organized, and

what it’s gone through with the protests on

a lot of things in the general election with Trump

so well-funded, and plays to fears as opposed to

top of COVID-19? Does it give you any sense

that I could have also shown, and thought I might.

hopes. So, it was quite a moment when I saw that in

of optimism, or does it create more anguish

But I just decided to leave them out to strike that

the footage.

about where we are?

balance. It was constantly a debate that we had in

Burstein: It was for us too, frankly, when we found

Clinton: It is both. It is anguish and outrage, deep,

the edit room.

it. I felt like, “Oh my God, this is so emblematic of

abiding frustration about the health crisis, the

what happens when you try to create change.”

economic crisis, the systemic racism crisis that

Does the Democratic Party seem healthier now

There was all this other footage, like when they

we are facing all together at this moment in time.

than in 2016?

went on this bus tour. You saw the anger on faces,

But it’s really impacted by the optimism that I feel

Clinton: I do think we are in a stronger position

but that particular [effigy] image was so extreme,

about how people are responding. During the 2016

because we have a nominee. Everybody can be

we just felt like that whole section, we built to that

campaign, I made the fight against systemic racism

focused on the general election. The Democratic

moment. It’s trying to show what happens when

a central part of my campaign. Literally the first

National Committee doesn’t run anything except

you try to become a different kind of First Lady and

speech I gave in the whole campaign was about

the convention. It doesn’t run primaries. It doesn’t

take on this huge initiative that the country should

that, in spring of 2015, and I was particularly af-

run caucuses. Those are run by states. So, I think

feel ready for, trying to help everyone, but they’re

fected by the mothers of the movement, women

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INSIDE STORY Clinton with Kate McKinnon, who played her on Saturday Night Live; below right, with daughter Chelsea; below left, with President Obama.

who had lost children to police violence, or to

Voting really matters, and so I’m optimistic if people

besides Barack Obama in 2008. We have got to

civilian gun violence. I kept hoping there would be

follow through now and don’t just protest and then

convince people that if they care about any of these

a moment. It didn’t happen with Trayvon Martin. It

get discouraged because the existing officeholders

issues, about how badly the virus was handled,

didn’t happen with Michael Brown. It didn’t happen

are not being as responsive. This is really a long-

about how terrible the economic cost has been,

with so many of these young Black people who

term commitment.

about the continuing, unabated brutality and racism

were killed, because there was always a murkiness

that we see in policing, then they’ve got to vote.

about it. People would say, “Well, I don’t know what

Do the events of the past few weeks make you

really happened,” or, “Well, I’m not sure,” or, “I can

more hopeful about Joe Biden’s chances?

Any last thoughts?

understand why somebody would be worried or re-

Clinton: If people vote. I mean, it all comes down

Clinton: I got all worked up. I’m sorry.

acting.” There is no question about what happened

to whether people turn out, because if people turn

Burstein: No, I think it’s great. I mean, look, we all

to George Floyd, and the entire world saw it for 8

out, then Joe Biden will win. We will take back the

feel worked up right now. We have to be, and we

minutes and 46 seconds. So, unlike our legacy of

Senate. We will hold the House. We will have gov-

want to hear from people that we respect and our

lynching, Jim Crow, the horrible instances that we’ve

ernors and state legislators who will take all of this

leaders about it, because you articulate it so well.

seen even in the last few years about the deaths of

seriously and act. But if people don’t turn out, and if

I’m just nodding my head the whole time.

young Black men in particular, but also some young

the Republican Party is able to prevent people from

Black women, there was no turning away. As hor-

being registered or having their registrations count,

You guys have such an easy rapport. Did that

rific as that was, it changed how many Americans,

or having enough polling places for them to vote,

come from doing so much promotion in the

particularly white Americans, now think about what

then maybe not. Vote by mail, which should be used

past few months?

Black America has been facing forever. So that gives

widely because of the coronavirus, they’re trying to

Clinton: I had so much fun with this project. We got

me optimism. You see police chiefs resigning be-

prevent that. I mean, Trump and his people know

to go to Sundance. We went to the Berlin Film Fes-

cause they can’t control their departments. You see

that if we get vote by mail—and I am right now rais-

tival. It gave Nanette a chance to talk about the art

police officers being charged with crimes for how

ing money and fighting to support litigation against

of filmmaking, and gave me a chance to talk about

they have treated people in their custody without

all these states to require vote by mail—if we get

all these other bigger issues that I think are at stake

any explanation—a knee on a neck, a shot in the

that, they can’t beat us. When I say us, I don’t mean

and that are so well-raised in the documentary.

back. So I am optimistic, I guess I would say, that

Democrats and Democratic nominees. I mean the

Burstein: Our premiere was early March. I think

maybe the changes we need now will have a better

will of the American people. Remember, I am the

that was the last big event that myself and many

chance of actually happening and being institution-

person who got the second highest votes running

people I know actually attended in person. And then

alized. But I also don’t think protest alone is enough.

for president of any person in the history of America

the world shut down. ★ D E A D L I N E .C O M / AWA R D S L I N E

35

Linda Cardellini

Trevor Noah

Forest Whitaker

Nicholas Hoult

Lucy Liu

Russell Crowe

Janet Mock

Patrick Stewart

Uzo Aduba

Robin Thede

Contenders Television 2020 JUNE 2 0, 2 02 0 Deadline assembled 106 panellists worldwide for our first virtual Contenders livestream.

See more photos at ContendersTelevision.Deadline.com

Dan Levy

Niecy Nash David Harbour

Lisa Kudrow

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D E A D L I N E .C O M / AWA R D S L I N E

Jason Bateman

Anthony Anderson

Laura Linney

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