Hoisted from the Archives: Wars of Religion
7/18/09 11:18 AM
Grasping Reality with Both Hands The Semi-Daily Journal of Economist Brad DeLong: A Fair, Balanced, Reality-Based, and More than Two-Handed Look at the World J. Bradford DeLong, Department of Economics, U.C. Berkeley #3880, Berkeley, CA 94720-3880; 925 708 0467; delong@econ.berkeley.edu.
Support this weblog | About This Website | About Brad DeLong | This Weblog | Weblog RSS feed | Brad DeLong's Egregious Moderation | Order of the Shrill | Office Hours: Evans 601, by appointment, email delong@econ.berkeley.edu | Academic C.V. | John Yoo and the Torture Memo | Audio and Video Read the comment policy: no drive-bys, and if you bring information and humor you will be fine... Become A Teacher Today Teachers are in Demand, Become One! Find Schools with Teaching Programs
Obama Economic Recession Here’s Obama’s REAL plan to turn the economy around.
www.DegreeVenue.com/Teacher
MoneyMorning.com/economic_recovery
Weblog Home Page Weblog Archives Econ 115: 20th Century Economic History Econ 211: Economic History Seminar Economics Should-Reads Political Economy Should-Reads Politics and Elections Should-Reads Hot on Google Blogsearch Hot on Google Brad DeLong's Egregious Moderation July 15, 2009
Hoisted from the Archives: Wars of Religion Brad DeLong's Semi-Daily Journal: A Weblog: Wars of Religion: Faisal Jawdat directs us to Robert X. Cringely's narrative of what he saw after he finished his article for Penthouse on "How to Get a Date in Tehran": PBS | I, Cringely . Archived Column: I eventually finished the piece and decided to go see the war since I had been in Beirut and Angola, but had never seen trench warfare, which is what I was told they had going in Iran. So I took a taxi to the front, introduced myself to the local commander, who had gone, as I recall, to Iowa State, and spent a couple http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2009/07/hoisted-from-the-archives-wars-of-religion.html
Page 1 of 4
Hoisted from the Archives: Wars of Religion
7/18/09 11:18 AM
to the front, introduced myself to the local commander, who had gone, as I recall, to Iowa State, and spent a couple days waiting for the impending human wave attack. That attack was to be conducted primarily with 11-and 12-year-old boys as troops, nearly all of them unarmed. There were several thousand kids and their job was to rise out of the trench, praising Allah, run across No Man's Land, be killed by the Iraqi machine gunners, then go directly to Paradise, do not pass GO, do not collect 200 dinars. And that's exactly what happened in a battle lasting less than 10 minutes. None of the kids fired a shot or made it all the way to the other side. And when I asked the purpose of this exercise, I was told it was to demoralize the cowardly Iraqi soldiers. It was the most horrific event I have ever seen, and I once covered a cholera epidemic in Bangladesh that killed 40,000 people. Waiting those two nights for the attack was surreal. Some kids acted as though nothing was wrong while others cried and puked. But when the time came to praise Allah and enter Paradise, not a single boy tried to stay behind. Now put this in a current context. What effective limit is there to the number of Islamic kids willing to blow themselves to bits? There is no limit, which means that a Bush Doctrine can't really stand in that part of the world. But of course President Bush, who may think he pulled the switch on a couple hundred Death Row inmates in Texas, has probably never seen a combat death. He doesn't get it and he'll proudly NEVER get it. Welcome to the New Morality. And while we're at it, let's also quote from historian-eyewitness Jacques-Auguste de Thou's account of the September 1572 St. Bartholomew's Day massacre: St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre: [T]he streets and ways did resound with the noise of those that flocked to the slaughter and plunder, and the complaints and doleful out-cries of dying men, and those that were nigh to danger were every where heard. The carkasses of the slain were thrown down from the windows, the Courts & chambers of houses were full of dead men, their dead bodies rolled in dirt were dragged through the streets, bloud did flow in such abundance through the chanels of the streets, that full streams of bloud did run down into the River: the number of the slain men, women, even those that were great with child, and children also, was innumerable... And let us also add the chant of the Huguenot cavalry, from Psalm 118, as they prepared their charges during the War of the Three Henrys: This is the day the LORD has made! Let us rejoice and be glad! RECOMMENDED (5.0) by 6 people like you [How? ] You might like:
Wingnuts Really Unclear on the Concept... (@this site) Obama's Message to the Iranian People (@American Power) 2 more recommended posts Âť Brad DeLong on July 15, 2009 at 11:33 AM in History, Strategy: Grand Strategy | Permalink TrackBack TrackBack URL for this entry: http://www.typepad.com/services/trackback/6a00e551f080038834011570935a59970c Listed below are links to weblogs that reference Hoisted from the Archives: Wars of Religion:
Comments http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2009/07/hoisted-from-the-archives-wars-of-religion.html
Page 2 of 4
Hoisted from the Archives: Wars of Religion
7/18/09 11:18 AM
You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post. Note: that war originated with Iraq invading Iran. Another kind of war might not enjoy the same kind of support. If you want to add another religious war worth contemplating, how about the September Massacres? Another Parisian riot. Posted by: sm | July 15, 2009 at 12:38 PM Read the novel "Q" by Luther Blissett for a good description of the Peasants War in the early 1500's and the fianl destruction of the Kingdom of Munster. from another source ...After the Peasants' War, a second and more determined attempt to establish a theocracy was made at Munster, in Westphalia (1532–1535). Here the group had gained considerable influence, through the adhesion of Bernhard Rothmann, the Lutheran pastor, and several prominent citizens; and the leaders, Jan Matthys, a baker of Haarlem, and Jan Bockelson, a tailor of Leiden, had little difficulty in obtaining possession of the town and deposing the magistrates. Matthys identified Munster as the "New Jerusalem", and on January 5 1534, a number of his disciples entered the city and introduced adult baptism. Rothmann apparently accepted "rebaptism" that day, and well over 1000 adults were soon baptized. Vigorous preparations were made, not only to hold what had been gained, but to proceed from Munster toward the conquest of the world. The town was being besieged by Franz von Waldeck, its expelled bishop. In April 1534 on Easter Sunday, Matthys, who had prophesied God's judgment to come on the wicked on that day, made a sally with only thirty followers, believing that he was a second Gideon, and was cut off with his entire band. He was killed, his head severed and placed on a pole for all in the city to see, and his genitals nailed to the city gate. Bockelson, better known in history as John of Leiden, was subsequently installed as king. Claiming to be the successor of David, he claimed royal honours and absolute power in the new "Zion". He justified his actions by the authority of visions from heaven, as others have done in similar circumstances. He legalized polygamy, and himself took sixteen wives, one of whom he beheaded himself in the marketplace. Community of goods was also established. After obstinate resistance the town was taken by the besiegers on June 24 1535, and in January 1536 Bockelson and some of his more prominent followers, after being tortured, were executed in the marketplace. Their dead bodies were exhibited in cages, which hung from the steeple of St. Lambert's Church; the cages still hang there, though the bones were removed later..... Approximately 100000 were killed in that time period. Posted by: Neal | July 15, 2009 at 12:44 PM Psalm 118 - a very popular text. Oliver Cromwell is reputed to have quoted it on the morning of the battle of Dunbar. Posted by: Roger Albin | July 15, 2009 at 02:27 PM This makes me think of Randall Collins' "Violence: A Micro-sociological Theory". He shows that these sorts of massacres are only possible when the sides are not at all evenly matched. Trench warfare rushes where one side is safe and the other totally exposed are perfectly designed for massacre. My God, several thousand eleven and twelve year olds! Jesus wept. Posted by: MostlyAPragmatist | July 15, 2009 at 02:55 PM And that's a rounding error on, say, WW2 deaths. Posted by: wcw | July 15, 2009 at 03:12 PM "That attack was to be conducted primarily with 11-and 12-year-old boys as troops, nearly all of them unarmed. There were several thousand kids and their job was to rise out of the trench, praising Allah, run across No Man's Land, be killed by the Iraqi machine gunners, then go directly to Paradise, do not pass GO, do not collect 200 dinars. And that's exactly what happened in a battle lasting less than 10 minutes. " Isn't this sort of thing happening in Africa all the time? I've no idea what those kids are told to motivate them, but I imagine it's not much different. I read this not as some sort of "Islam is uniquely evil" but rather as that, when push comes to shove, religion provides buggerall of the morality that it continually claims it alone instills in humanity. We saw (and continue to see) the same thing in America, where all the http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2009/07/hoisted-from-the-archives-wars-of-religion.html
Page 3 of 4
Hoisted from the Archives: Wars of Religion
7/18/09 11:18 AM
morality that it continually claims it alone instills in humanity. We saw (and continue to see) the same thing in America, where all the major churches had plenty of time and energy to complain about gay marriage, and zero interest in complaining about torture. I have ZERO doubt that, under the right circumstances, Americans would do exactly the same thing as the Iranians, sending children to their graves, shouting hallelujah all the way. God knows, the country is happy enough to do the same thing in slow motion --- vide Health Care (lack of), and Global Warming (long term consequences of), and Sex Ed (non-teaching of). Posted by: Maynard Handley | July 15, 2009 at 05:37 PM Brad, A cute and informative juxtaposition of 2 narratives separated by 400+ years, which suggests that Islam of circa 2385 has an excellent chance to reach the levels of tolerance and humanity attained by mainstream Christianity circa 1972. The questions of what to do now with the Islamic regime that organized human wave attacks, and how would the life expectancy of human civilization be affected by that regime obtaining nuclear weapons and means of their delivery, are left as exercises for the reader. Posted by: Anatol | July 16, 2009 at 03:25 PM
Verify your Comment Previewing your Comment Posted by: | This is only a preview. Your comment has not yet been posted. Post
Edit
Your comment could not be posted. Error type: Your comment has been posted. Post another comment The letters and numbers you entered did not match the image. Please try again. As a final step before posting your comment, enter the letters and numbers you see in the image below. This prevents automated programs from posting comments. Having trouble reading this image? View an alternate. Continue
Me:
Economists: Paul Krugman Mark Thoma Cowen and Tabarrok Chinn and Hamilton Brad Setser
Juicebox Mafia: Moral Ezra Klein Philosophers: Matthew Yglesias Hilzoy and Spencer Friends Ackerman Crooked Timber Dana Goldstein of Humanity Dan Froomkin Mark Kleiman and Friends Eric Rauchway and Friends John Holbo and Friends
http://delong.typepad.com/sdj/2009/07/hoisted-from-the-archives-wars-of-religion.html
Page 4 of 4