HORARY CHART ROTATION https://www.facebook.com/groups/Krishnamurtypadhdhati/permalink/960419410671473/ Rightly the following discussion was made among the members of K P Astrology group for clarity on the point of rotation of Horary Chart -
[Part - A] Horary or Time chart RotationPlease refer to BPHS Chapter 100, Verse 43:: Yasya yasya shubham vaath ri:fastmagta shubhaH: (43) Yad vaa Kendra trikonashthastasya tasya shubhprada What does sage Parashar say in the very first line of the above verse? The question relates to which house should be considered as ‘‘Lagna’’ in the time chart. At several places much has been written in Horary Astrology Sixth Reader written by revered Guruji Professor KSK about rotation of chart or how ascendant has to be selected. But I could not understand that why dear respected Sri Sunaparantha Guruji has clearly contradicted rotation of chart while denial of Sri Adithkasinath ji is evasive and not specific on the point in issue. Please correct me, if I am wrong. Relevant URLs are given below-
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/k_p_system/message/43261 1. The person in whose mind the question took the birth (i.e. who asked the question) has NO REPRESENTATION in horary chart. [Not acceptable] 2.
Horary Lagna ALWAYS represents the person about whom the question is asked. [Not acceptable]
3. Astrologer need not (or should not) ask about relation of the person asking question with the person about whom the question is asked because this does not affect the prediction. [Not acceptable]
However, I beg to differ with your views. My views as explained in my earlier mail(s) are unchanged and are based on what is written by Guruji KSK in his Reader VI, Ninenth Edition September 2002. Relevant references are given below.
1.
Page 160 – Paragraph 1:
Krishnamurthi Paddhati: Take that house which represents the relationship. For Father and for stangers take only the 9th house. Find out where the cusp falls. If the sub lord of the cusp is in the constellation of the planet who is the significator of Badhaka and Maraka sthanas, boldly declare that he is dead.
2.
Page 160 – News about the person – When? , Third line
“------on the day Moon transits that (1) position of the zodiac (sign, star and sub) which is governed by the significators of 3 counted from the ascendant, (2) 3rd counted from the house representing the relative and the 11th from the ascendant………..”
3.
Page 174 – Will my 3rd son construct a building?
The number given by the querist shows his lagna. The query is about his third son. The first child is shown by the 5th house counted from lagna. Younger brother and sister is shown by the 3rd house. The second child is therefore is shown by 3rd to 5th, i.e. 7th from lagna and similarly the 3rd is shown by 3rd to 7th i.e. 9th from lagna. Therefore the lagna of the third child is the 9th house. (Note: The question is about 3rd child and 9th house is taken as lagna)
4.
Page 213 – Can I gain in lottery? When? Third paragraph.
The query may be for the querist himself or for some relative or friend. If the query is for himself, make all the calculations from lagna. If it is for younger brother or sister, take the 3rd house counted from the lagna as ascendant for that younger brother or sister. If it relates to mother take 4th house. To son or daughter take 5th. To wife or partner take 7th. To father take 9th and to elder brother and sister take 11th and find out.
5.
Page 260 – Paragraph 2
As the 9th house represents father, his walking out of the house should be judged from the houses 3, 9 and 12 counted from the 9th house i.e. to his lagna 11th, 5th and 8th houses to Libra.
6.
Page 309 – Return of missing son –Paragraph 3
To leave one’s home, to go away and to live in an unknown quarters is indicated by the houses 3 and 12, counted from the house indicating that relative.
As far as my knowledge goes Guruji KSK’s findings are based on his sincere research. I am sure a knowledgeable astrologer of your caliber must have formed opinion other than Guruji KSK’s, only after thorough research in this connection. It will be highly appreciated if you share your research findings with forum members.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/k_p_system/message/43209
In Horary or time chart, lagna represents the person who has put up the query. If the query is related to him only then question of rotating the chart does not arise. Such a chart is not just "BIRTH CHART OF A PARTICULAR QUESTION", but it is a BIRTH CHART FOR A PARTICULAR QUESTION IN THE MIND OF THAT PARTICULAR PERSON.
However if the query is for some other person, lagna needs to be rotated to the house representing that person. This is my humble personal opinion.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/k_p_system/message/43219 [XXX] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/k_p_system/message/43255
///BUT NOT FOR THE HORARY CHART BASED ON THE NUMBER UTTERED BY THE PERSON.-By Quiz master Sri Dr.Adithkashinath Ji //-Correct Answer is given by Dr.Luther Rath Ji and quiz master ji that the Horary chart is rotated if there is need to do it.
Dear friends, Chart is rotated is the right answer beyond any doubt, if Horary chart is prepared on the basis of number uttered by consultant. It is immaterial as to when chart is prepared in respect of this thread. Because there is issue if chart has to be rotated or not. Take query of theft and recovery from reader VI. [1]You will find there that-
Lagna indicates the querist himself /herself, whose property has been stolen and 7th house indicates the thief. [2] 7th house will indicate spouse whose property has been stolen and 1st house indicates the thief [3] 3rd house will indicate younger brother whose property has been stolen and 9th house indicates the thief [4]4th house will indicate mother whose property has been stolen and10th house indicates the thief [5]5th house will indicate son whose property has been stolen and11th house indicates the thief [6]6th house will indicate maternal uncle whose property has been stolen and 12th house indicates the thief [7]9th house will indicate father whose property has been stolen and 3rd house indicates the thief
Further property lost will be judged by houses 2,6,11 counted from the houses indicating the thief. In this case consultant is the same person who may put question for the stolen property of his/her own or of his/her spouse or of his/her younger brother/sister or his/her mother or his/her son or his /her maternal uncle or his/her father.But you will see that ascendant is taken 1 or 7th or 3rd or 4th or 5th or 6th or 9th cusp and for convenience chart is rotated to find the respective ascendant and again for these different persons thief is also judged from their corresponding seventh house i.e from 7th or 1st or 9th or 10th or 11th or 12th or 3rd house.
There are many examples from where you can note it that chart is rotated to arrive at corresponding ascendant of person about which question is put by consultant when horary chart is prepared on the basis of number uttered by consultant. With thanks & regards, Dhirendra Nath Misra.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/k_p_system/message/43318 [ discussed above ] http://groups.yahoo.com/group/k_p_system/message/43407
// Is rotation of chart required for time chart also. For instance, if an Astrologer himself is putting a question "Will Mr. X get promotion in near future" and he is erecting chart (as per time of question and not the Horary number), is he required to rotate the chart.-By Mintu//
Dear Mintu Ji, Mr.''X" stands for an ascendant from ascendant of time chart or Horary chart i.e ''A" and Mr.''X'' may
be a brother(3,11),maternal uncle(6),opponent(7),father(9), Uncle (11),foreigner (12) etc.
For promotion 11th cusp sub lord -
counting from these 3 or 11 or 6 or 7 or 9 or 11 or 12 th have to be taken into account and further its
star lord have to be considered;retrogression and if sub lord of 11th happens to be significators of 2,6,11 have to
be considered.
Now draw a chart in norther style and put letters A in ascendant of time chart or Horary chart, count clock wise
and B in 2nd,C in 3rd,D in 4th,E in 5th,F in 6th,G in 7th,H in in 8th ,I in 9th , J in 10th , K in 11th and L in 12th
cusp.
One may do it all without rotating time chart for these respective ascendants i.e
3rd & 11th from ascendant of time chart / horary chart i.e "C"or ''K''
11th from ascendant of time chart / horary chart i.e ''K''or
6th from ascendant of time chart / horary chart i.e ''F''or
7th from ascendant of time chart / horary Chart ''G''or
9th from ascendant of time chart / horary '' I''or
11th from ascendant of time chart / horary Chart '' K''or
12 from ascendant of time chart / horary Chart ''L''
Again count where does 11th cusp fall for above mentioned Mr"X" where as Mr.''X'' is C, or K or K or F or G or I or k or L.
For above , 11 th cusp may be denoted by ''A'' or "I" or "I" or "D" or "E" or "G" or "H" or "I" or "J" respectively
Now note down if sub lord / star lord of A or I or D or E or G or H or I or J is retrograde or not.
Note down sub lord so selected of above A or I or D or E or G or H or J signify 2 or 6 or 11. Here cusp 2nd or 6th or 11th
for ''C'' may be D or H or A
for ''K'' may be L or D or I
for ''F'' may be G or k or D
for ''G'' may be H or L or E
for ''I'' may be J or B or G
for "K" may be L or D or I
for ''L'' may be A or E or J
For placidus system to which we follow some times A to L may not be counted consecutively and this fact is known to every KP follower.
It is for convenience for us that chart has to be rotated to count every thing without any error ,else we can commit error while counting as to where ascendant for Mr.''X'' will fall and who is sub lord of 11th cusp,wheter it is retro or its star lord is retro and sub lord is significator of 2 or 6 or 11.Because positing of Mr."X" is being changed every time and its related factors are also being changed. So it is my personal opinion as I am bogus student of astrology that chart may be rotated if there is need.
Chart must not be rotated if an astrologer has very sharp and analytical mind.
Regards,
Dhirendra Nath Misra. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/k_p_system/message/43409 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/k_p_system/message/43425 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/k_p_system/message/43433 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/k_p_system/message/43435
dear Dhirendra sir, this is an excellent explanation about horary. thanks for sharing this. regards Nk.. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/k_p_system/message/43453
Dear Friends,
It is agreeable fact of Sri Adith ji. Time Chart Prediction is very old system in Vedic and in Sri Lanka it is called Nimitham. It reveals all the matters in the mind of the querist, and no need to rotate.
In this regard I have discussed with an experienced old traditional astrologer and according to him,
When an astrologer put his own question in connection with any person, what are (were) the thoughts of his mind? It is not of his own, but related to the person in his mind and hence the Lagna of the time chart is similar to that of the Lagna of the said native and can be predicted accordingly. Secondly if someone go to the astrologer and ask for a Time chart prediction (Nimithi) for someone else, lagna lord tells the relationship of the person concerned and he can pick up the prediction.
Kalyan
[Part - B] What is the basic difference between time chart and horary chart is already delineated by revered Guruji,KSK in detail that this branch of science is not a bluff.It is not to dupe the gullible throng.But at the same time,it is not easy for the students of astrology to make predictions infallibly unless they are thorough with the principle of astrology available now.Guruji further says that Lord Ganesh has given through me a particular technique to decide the event.It is popularly known as KRISHNAMURTI PADHDHATI.
//Anyone could have asked that question, relationship doesn't matters because the question would be asked to know the time of child birth, and there would be no need to rotate the chart and child birth would have been predicted in the joint period of the significators of houses 2,5 and 11. // You are absolutely right .It is applicable if consultant herself is going to deliver a baby else not. Significators of houses 2,5,11 are to be taken from the chart of a lady who has to deliver her first baby and if she had herself put this query and thereafter timing of birth of baby arises.Every person who has put the query is not going to deliver the same baby nor it is possible .If it seems to you that the same baby will be delivered by every consultant then you don't have to rotate chart and significators of
houses 2,5,11 from their chart will give you accurate answer.Your write up sounds that you are not making discussion on horary astrology rather you are insisting upon time chart erected for the moment when sister,uncle,brother,mother,grand mother and so many are putting the same query to which revered Guruji has already declared unscientific.
//The chart is for the question and not for the querist //
your approach does not seem correct.Take a example of election.Horary Charts are being prepared by astrologer for the one seat and there may be many candidates who goes to astrologer and utter specific number. A well experienced KP Astrologer can correctly predict who would win in the election.
//It is the astrologer who want to know that when the child will be delivered, therefore in my opinion the horary time chart is important or the astrologer must choose the KP number 1-249 for getting the answer to a particular question; and as he gets the answer - he may deliver it to the querist. //
Often Horary Chart is prepared on the basis of number uttered by consultant and not on the basis of number chosen by an astrologer.The number that a consultant gives depends upon his past actions as well as the future results he/she is to enjoy as the moment of birth is the effect of his past actions and not only this but an astrologer calculate on the MISHEARD number.Here the divine force so works,that the number taken by the astrologer gives a clear and correct answer whereas the other number mentioned by the consultant can't offer such a clear clue to the astrologer.But it does not mean that astrologer has to ignore all the time number uttered by consultant. Submitted by- Dhirendra Nath Misra