Eighth Day Magazine Issue Forty-two. by Eighth Day Magazine

EIGHTH DAY

? s k c i K e g A Middle-

ISSUE FORTY-TWO. MARCH. £5.50

Holy Holy / Bonham-Bullick / Jeff Wayne / Hue and Cry / 10cc / xPropaganda / Umbrella Assassins / MAZE / John Howard / Chris Spedding / The Bootleg Beatles / Steve Aungle / 51st State

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EDITORIAL

Top: Alice Jones-Rodgers Editor-in-Chief Scott Rodgers Photographer

EIGHTH DAY

Bottom, from left to right: Dave Hammond Staff Writer Martin Hutchinson Staff Writer Paul Foden Staff Writer Peter Dennis Staff Writer

Issue Forty-two March 2022

Mark Christopher Lee Staff Writer Eoghan Lyng Staff Writer Dan Webster Wasted World German Shepherd Records “Different Noises for Your Ears” Frenchy Rants

Could you be an Eighth Day writer? Please feel free to email us samples of your work!

Twitter: @EighthDayMag / Instagram: @eighthdaymagazine / eighthdaymagazine@outlook.com

“A wee slice of rock ‘n’ roll history!”

CONTENTS

4. Holy Holy Interview by Alice Jones-Rodgers.

15 / 31 / 75. Wasted World Another instalment of Dan Webster’s legenday comic strip. 16. John Howard Interview by Dave Hammond.

125. xPropaganda Alice Jones-Rodgers reviews ‘The Heart is Strange’ and speaks to Claudia Brücken.

126. Frenchy’s Rants This month: Sweet Music and War!

32. 10cc Interview by Martin Hutchinson.

130. The War of the Worlds Martin Hutchinson interviews Jeff Wayne, Chris Spedding and Claire Richards.

36. Hue and Cry Interview by Alice Jones-Rodgers.

135. Cyrano Review by Alice Jones-Rodgers.

58. The Bootleg Beatles Interview by Martin Hutchinson.

136. Maze Interview by Paul Phillips.

62. Bonham-Bullick Interview by Alice Jones-Rodgers.

140. Tim Holehouse Dave Hammond and Paul Foden offer two perspectives on ‘Very’

76. The Undertones Interview by Alice Jones-Rodgers. 92. 51st State Interview by Paul Foden. 104. Steve Aungle on Billy MacKenzie Interview by Alice Jones-Rodgers. 118. German Shepherd Records Presents: Umbrella Assassins Interview by Bob Osborne.

144. Agent Starling Dave Hammond reviews ‘Constellation of Birds’. 146. Tears for Fears Alice Jones-Rodgers reviews ‘The Tipping Point’. Twelve and six month subscriptions are available from our website.

Holy Holy

Heavenly Intervention: Glenn Gregory on Finding Bowie and Losing Woody Interview by Alice Jones-Rodgers.

“Yeah, the band broke up because of medical differences!” Best known as the frontman of pioneering Synth Pop band Heaven 17, Glenn Gregory has spent the last eight years doing some serious moonlighting as the vocalist of Holy Holy. Despite performing solely David Bowie material, Holy Holy, who take their name from the relatively obscure B-side of the ‘Diamond Dogs’ single from 1974, insist on not being regarded as a tribute band. And rightly so, considering that they were founded by Spiders from Mars drummer Mick “Woody” Woodmansey, who appeared on ‘The Man Who Sold the World’, 1970; ‘Hunky Dory’, 1971; ‘The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust’, 1972 and ‘Aladdin Sane’, 1973 and world famous producer Tony Visconti, who played bass in The Hype (a short-lived Bowie project, also featuring Woodmansey, which evolved into The Spiders from Mars) and produced ‘David Bowie’ (aka ‘Space Oddity’), 1969; ‘The Man Who Sold the World’; ‘Young Americans’, 1975; ‘Low’, 1977;

“Heroes”, 1977; ‘Lodger’, 1979; ‘Scary Monsters (and Super Creeps). 1980; ‘Heathen’, 2002; ‘Reality’, 2003; ‘The Next Day’, 2013 and ‘Blackstar’, 2016. Unfortunately, on Friday 28th January, Holy Holy announced that they had parted company with Woodmansey due to him not being vaccinated against COVID-19 and his position on their upcoming The Best of Bowie Tour, which runs from the 2nd to the 13th March, will be filled by former associate of both Robbie Williams and Joe Strummer and current drummer of The Alarm, Steve “Smiley” Barnard. Woodmansey, who lost his wife shortly before the pandemic, told fans: “It is with deep regret that I have to announce I will no longer be a part of the band Holy Holy. Due to my medical exemption regarding the COVID-19 vaccination, the band do not feel safe having me involved and have replaced me in the band. Therefore, you will not be seeing me on the upcoming tour in March 2022. I have no negative feelings towards

Woody Woodmansey

the band, they are doing what they believe is best for them, whilst I am doing the same. I am sad not to be part of the band and I will miss connecting with all the fans. I would like to take this opportunity to thank you all for your support over the years, especially for your messages of comfort and encouragement over the last year, they meant a lot. I am fit and healthy and doing well”. Firstly, hello Glenn and thank you for agreeing to our interview, it is lovely to speak to you. You are about to head out on tour with Holy Holy this March, but unfortunately, you have had to part company with drummer Mick “Woody” Woodmansey, the man who played drums with Bowie’s most legendary band, The Spiders from Mars and appeared on ‘The Man Who Sold the World’ (1970); ‘Hunky Dory’ (1971); ‘The Rise and Fall of Ziggy Stardust’ (1972) and ‘Aladdin Sane’ (1973), due to him not being vaccinated against COVID-19. We suspect that this wasn’t a decision that was taken

Woody as part of The Spiders from Mars in 1973

lightly. How do the remaining members of Holy Holy and Woodmansey feel about the decision at the moment? Obviously, it’s quite difficult, you know, but it came at the time of COVID and Woody didn’t want to get vaccinated and, you know, a lot of the band weren’t happy about travelling with someone [that wasn’t vaccinated] and we also didn’t know whether we would be able to get into venues and things like that, so it came down to ... and Woody coined the phrase, it’s ‘medical differences’, you know! Yeah, the band broke up because of medical differences! [Laughs]. And everybody wished it hadn’t happened, but there’s quite a lot of things over the past two years that everybody wished hadn’t happened as well, you know. A band breaking up due to “Medical differences” is probably a first! It is a shame though. It is, yeah, but, you know, life must go on and we just have to carry on.

Steve “Smiley” Barnard

Who will be taking Woodmansey’s position in the band for the upcoming tour? It will be Smiley [Steve Barnard, who is also currently a member of The Alarm and formerly a member of, amongst others, Joe Strummer and the Masceleros and Robbie Williams’ band circa 1998’s ‘Life Thru A Lens’]. He’s a friend of James Stevenson [guitarist, also currently a member of The Alarm], so yeah. Are you hoping that Woodmansey might be able to rejoin you in the future? I mean, it’s always open to him. I mean, Woody said that he doesn’t want to, but, you know, we would never say no and it would be great if we could get it back together. How did you first come to be involved in Holy Holy and how have you found the experience so far? Well, I was working with Tony Visconti

Tony Visconti

on another album, an album of an artist called stefan Emmer [‘International Blue’, 2014], who’s a Dutch artist and I’d co-written and sung four songs on that album. Tony Visconti was producing it and it was at Abbey Road Studios that I met Tony and we got on really well and at one point, he did actually turn round while mixing and he said, ‘There’s something of kind of David [Bowie] in your voice, you know, when I’m mixing this. It got me thinking of David’. And really, it was that moment. I think it was just right place, right time, because it was only about six weeks later, I got a phone call from Tony saying that him and Woody had decided to tour the album ‘The Man Who Sold the World’ [1970], which was never actually toured at the time. I misunderstood actually, I thought he wanted me to sing just that one song, I thought it was an artist like best of and everybody came and did a song. I said, ‘Are there any other songs you want me to sing?’ and he said, ‘Oh no, we want you to be the singer in the band, the whole thing’ and I was like, ‘Oh shit!’ It was weird because it was

James Stevenson

my birthday [16th May] actually when it happened and I had to pick my son up from school and him and one of his mates were running round, you know, and I was shouting ‘Shut the fuck up, it’s Tony Visconti!’ [Laughs]. And yeah, that was it and suddenly, I was into having to learn kind of like, I don’t know, 27 songs or something! Because you think you know people’s work, but if you have to stand up there and really sing it, you don’t really know anything. It took me a long time to get all of those things sorted and when I do things, I have to learn them so well that I don’t even have to think about them, so I can perform in a way that is without me having to ‘what’s the next word for that?’, you know, so I can put my all into it. Yes, because I bet it is a very different experience being up there performing somebody’s work as opposed to just being a fan of it? Yeah, exactly! We can all sing along in the car and go ‘La la la’ to a bit we don’t know [laughs], but you’re not

Paul Cuddeford

allowed to do that on stage! Can you remember first discovering Bowie and what impact did he have on you when you were planning your own career in music? Oh, an enormous influence actually! You know, as I said, Tony mentioned that something in the timbre of my voice reminded him of David. It’s not surprising really, because growing up, you’re talking hero and idol really for people of my age [63]. And also, I saw David when I was really young. I was fourteen, or at the latest fifteen, and he played at the Student Union in Sheffield. You had to be a student to get in and we faked Student Union cards! Myself and Adi [Newton, later of Clock DVA and The Future with the Ian Craig Marsh and Martyn Ware] and Martyn Ware and a guy called Paul Bower [later of the band 2.3], we’d gone and bought printing sets and some sticky back plastic, could have been on ‘Blue Peter’! And mine was from Psalter Lane Art College and I think, actually, my mum might have still got

Jessica Lee Morgan

Janette Mason

that in the bottom of a drawer! And so we made all these fake cards, which looked ridiculous really, but it worked! We got in! And I saw Bowie there, I saw Roxy Music there, loads of bands! It was brilliant! All with fake Student Union cards!

Obviously, there is a temptation to think of Holy Holy as a tribute band, but we would suggest that they are far from it. What are your thoughts on this?

That is amazing! God, what an era to have grown up in! I’m quite jealous actually! It was amazing, it really was! And I saw [Marc] Bolan and T. Rex and, you know, things like that, but that’s what it was all about. In fact, my first job was even influenced by David Bowie because it was when ‘Young Americans’ [1975] came out and in Moss Bros, in the window, they had a blue suit ... in Sheffield, this is ... they had a blue boxy suit, short at the ankles and I thought ‘Aah, that’s so Bowie!’ And I knew that you could get discount if you worked there for over a month, so I worked there for a month [laughs] and saved my wages literally just to get enough to buy this suit and I left the Friday that I bought the suit! [Laughs].

Yeah, I mean, it was never a tribute band. I mean, one of the reasons, one of the early things when I was learning the songs was that Woody and Tony both said to me, ‘Look, we don’t want you to be David. We’re not asking for someone to go up there and pretend to sing like David, or pretend to be David, we want you to do it in your own way’. I mean, Woody once said to me that Tony said he really wanted me to do it and it really wouldn’t be happy with anyone else. He wanted me to do it, I guess, after mixing my voice on those other tracks. And so, it isn’t a band. I mean, Tony was in the band on that first tour [in February 1970, for which Bowie; Visconti (bass); Mick Ronson (guitar) and John Cambridge (drums) were known as The Hype] and Tony played bass on a lot of these songs and Woody was obviously there for a lot of the early stuff [Woodmansey replaced

Glenn with Berenice Scott as Afterhere

Cambridge in April 1970]. And the guitarist, for instance, James Stevenson, he’s an absolute Mick Ronson nut! You know, he goes OD on Mick’s playing and Paul Cuddeford, the other guitarist, similarly. And Jess[ica Lee Morgan], who plays acoustic guitar and sax, who’s Tony’s daughter, and Jeanette Mason, who plays keyboards are brilliant. She’s played with everybody, she’s fantastic! And the thing is, everybody is such a musician and there’s not a computer on site. It’s like you’re going to watch a Rock band in 1976! It’s really, really exciting! The songs are brilliant, you’ve got Mr. Tony Visconti standing up there telling you stories and talking to you, what more could you want?! It’s brilliant! As well as Holy Holy, you are obviously still part of Heaven 17, but you are also one half of Afterhere with Heaven 17 and Holy Holy keyboardist Berenice Scott, with whom you released the 2018 album ‘Addict’ and soundtracked the television series ‘Liar’ (2017) and more recently ‘Vigil’ (2021). How

did Afterhere come about and could you tell us a bit about this project? Yeah, Afterhere is myself and Berenice Scott and we met Berenice, who became Heaven 17’s keyboard player for many years, and she and I just got on really well and we kind of were quite similar people and I was working on a ... I’ve forgotten what TV series it was for ... but I wanted her to come and sing for me on something in the studio and play piano and so she did. And we got on really well and obviously, I can play and program piano and play everything really, but not to Berenice’s standards, you know, she’s proper! We used to work with someone else, but we didn’t get on in the end. I had a period of working on TV dramas and things where I was on my own for years and I would just start talking to myself, so I like working with people, you know. It’s better than me saying, ‘Do you think that’s alright?’ and I’m going, ‘Well, you could perhaps change that ... well, should we perhaps try this?’ But I’m talking to myself and I’m thinking ‘this is really not good!’, you know!

[Laughs]. So, Berenice and I started working together like that and as we were kind of working on writing score, we started to work on a few songs as well. So, we then turned to that and we released an album called ‘Addict’ [2018]. It’s beautiful and the idea was for us to sing kind of half and half, but in the end, Berenice’s voice is so beautiful that I made her sing more. We used to argue. You know, she’d go, ‘No, you sing this one!’ [Laughs] and I would be like ‘No, you sing it!’ ... ‘No, you sing it!’ ... ‘You go first and then I’ll try!’ And in the end, I just loved her voice so much, it’s amazing and I love working with Berenice, we get on so well. We have a very similar way of working and it’s very easy, it’s brilliant! I really loved that album, ‘Addict’. Yeah, there’s some really nice songs on there. I think I loved writing that album much more than writing the first Heaven 17 album [‘Penthouse and Pavement’, 1981] actually. Really?! Yeah, it was really exciting and we

spent probably six months of our lives being in a room together and it was very, very enjoyable. On the subject of Heaven 17, you largely refused to play live during the ‘80s, despite releasing five albums (‘Penthouse and Pavement’, 1981; ‘The Luxury Gap’, 1983; ‘How Men Are’, 1984; ‘Pleasure One’, 1986 and ‘Teddy Bear, Duke & Psycho’, 1988), but have since re-invented yourselves as a powerful live act. Looking back to those early days of the band, having asserted yourself as such a great live band since, do you regret the decision to abstain from live performance at that point? It’s a weird one that, because we’re kind of getting good at it now and enjoy it and we’ve got a really good connection with our audience and our gigs are exciting and there’s a lot of love going on, you know. And so, you think ‘wow, we could have been doing this years ago’ and you know, we would have made more money and everything, but then I start to think

Heaven 17, 1981.

17-year-old Glenn leaving for London

‘well, maybe the reason we’re doing this now and we’re really loving it is because we didn’t do it then’, you know! Maybe we would have kind of all fallen out and we wouldn’t be doing it now if we’d done it then because, you know, a lot of bands did fall out. So, in one way, I kind of wish we had and it would have been lovely to do as you’re at number two in the charts or number one around the world and you want to go and play. That would have been good, but we made the decision and you’ve got to stick by it and I feel we’re happy where we are now and I love doing it now, it’s good! Yeah, you always seem like you love doing it as well. Yeah, it’s good fun, you know. And Martyn [Ware, keyboards / synthesizers] and I, I think it’s really weird because we’re really good mates and we see each other and we go and have a pint together, but the only time we argue is when we’re in a studio or on stage! [Laughs] It’s really funny, yeah! It’s kind of in a lighthearted way,

but, you know ... I was doing a gig the other day and I sat on the front of the stage and started talking to this girl and [laughs] Martyn shouted on the mic, ‘Oi! Get back up here!’ So, we have a laugh and there’s definitely a good connection with the audience. In September last year, Heaven 17 performed the first two Human League albums, ‘Reproduction’ (1979) and ‘Travelogue’ (1980) in full for the first time live in Sheffield and London. It goes without saying that Heaven 17 and The Human League are two bands that will always be inextricably linked, but we believe that you were actually the first choice of vocalist for The Human League back in 1977, but you were busy with other projects. Is that right? I think ... I mean, it wasn’t that it was choice. At that time, there were quite a lot of bands that we were all in and myself and Ian [Craig Marsh, keyboardist / synthesizer player in The Human League before he and Martyn Ware left the band to form the

Taking photos of The Human League, 1978

Glenn’s photograph of The Human League, which went on to be featured on the front cover of Sounds magazine in August 1978

production company British Electric Foundation (B.E.F.) and Heaven 17 with Gregory on vocals] and Martyn, we were in such bands as Underpants ... we had a band called Musical Vomit, which was Ian Marsh and various people ... and I always used to end up being the singer in these bands and literally just a week before The Human League were born ... We had another band called VDK and the Studs, which was a kind of Glam Punk band really and we played a gig at the Art College in Sheffield and there were two members of Cabaret Voltaire in the band, there was Martyn Ware, Ian Marsh and myself and Paul Bower, who’s in a band called 2.3, It was a great night and we had a big party afterwards. We had a kind of workshop in Sheffield that we all used to use as a studio and some of us lived there. It was just good fun. And I decided, ‘Right, that’s it, I’m going to move to London now. I’m going to follow my dream of being a professional photographer, I’m going to take pictures of bands and so I’m moving to London’. So, that weekend, I did! On

the Monday, I got on the train and I went to London, I was seventeen. In fact, I’ve got a picture of myself on the train station saying goodbye to my mum and dad! And that was it and I left, but Martyn and Ian had been working on these ... Martyn had bought a synthesizer and he’d been working on electronic backing tracks. And this is true, you can ask Martyn and Ian, they actually said, ‘Well, now Glenn’s gone, who are we going to get to sing these songs?!’ [Laughs] And Martyn said these words, ‘I’ve got a mate at school, I don’t know if he can sing, but he’s got a fantastic haircut!’ And that was Phil Oakey! And so they got Phil, they gave him the backing track on cassette and they said ‘Right, this is the backing track, can you go away and write some lyrics and melody for this and we’ll see if we can make it work’ and he came back and he’d written ‘Being Boiled’ [The Human League’s debut single, released in 1978] and then that was it! I’ve never, ever, for one second regretted not being the singer, because, you know, the original Human League, for me, are an immense band. Well,

Glenn and Tony

both Human Leagues are incredible, but at that point, I was a real fan of The Human League. I loved Phil’s look and Phil’s voice and we were friends as well and I absolutely loved them. So, I’ve never regretted it one moment and in fact, I even took photographs of them. In fact, I had a front cover of Sounds magazine with a picture that I’d taken of The Human League ... I’ll send it to you! Finally, and going back to Holy Holy, do you have a favourite song to perform with the band and why? There’s a couple, but one of them is ‘Life is Mars?’ [‘Hunky Dory’, 1971], I guess. For some reason, it’s one that I still actually kind of choke up a little bit on. I loved it when I was growing up, I think it’s an amazing song, we perform it really well, it sounds great and it always really comes from the heart and it touches me. I love singing it and I’m honoured to be able to sing it with those people. Aaw, amazing! Thank you so much

much for a wonderful interview, it has been so lovely to talk to you. We wish you all the best with the upcoming Holy Holy tour dates, all your other upcoming musical activities and for the future. Holy Holy’s nine-date The Best of Bowie Tour runs from the 2nd to the 13th March. For all upcoming tour dates and news on Glenn’s various music projects, visit the links below: www.holyholy.co.uk www.facebook.com/ TVBestBowie www.heaven17.com www.facebook.com/ heaven17official afterhere.co.uk www.facebook.com/ AfterhereMusic

John Howard ‘Look - The Unknown Story of Danielle Du Bois’: A Modern Day Concept Album Inspired by a Real Life Story Interview by Dave Hammond Photography by Neil France (except where stated).

“I’ve always wanted to do a concept album, because I come from that period of concept albums ...” John Howard has been writing, performing and producing music since the early 1970s and has been enjoying something of a creative renaissance over the past twenty years, following the re-issue of his 1975 debut album, ‘Kid in a Big World’ in 2001. Since then, he has been prolific in releasing solo albums, piano instrumental albums and collaborated with The Night Mail as well as penning three volumes of his autobiography. I enjoyed a wonderful chat with John, who is now based in Spain with his partner Neil, covering the recent career spanning retrospective and his new release. Before we talk about your new album, which is called ‘Look - The Unknown Story of Danielle Du Bois’, I’d like to have a brief chat about the album you released last year, ‘Collected - the best of John Howard’

featuring 38 tracks covering pretty much the whole of your career from the early 1970s right through to when that disc was released? Yeah, absolutely, including the 1971 demo. And yeah, that was an amazing project. It was Edward Rogers, you know, the guy from Rogers and Butler, who I connected with at the Lexington in 2019. And we got on like a house on fire. And he reminded me he came to see me in 2004 when I played at Camden Underworld. He’s from Birmingham, originally, but lives in New York now. So when we finally got to meet in 2019, he said, ‘You know, you should release a best of, a proper best of covering everything’. And I said, ‘Well, that would be great’. In the meantime, he put me in touch with Kool Kat music for ‘To the Left of the Moon’s Reflection’ [2020], which was around the last time you and I talked, right? And Ed kept saying, ‘We really

should do this’. So, I mentioned it to Ray Gianchetti, who runs Kool Kat he said, ‘Yeah, why not, I’ll release it’. So, Ed sent me a list of tracks that he particularly wanted on there. And we talked about what else we’d like on there - I’d like this, yeah, I’d like that on there and so on. Gradually, we sort of whittled it down and came to what was a lot, you know, 38 tracks. And he really surprised me because I thought he was just gonna go for ‘Goodbye Susie’, ‘Family Man’ [both from ‘Kid in a Big World’] and all that sort of stuff, but he was the one who suggested the demo, which I recorded in my parents’ house in Ramsbottom in 1971 on a guitar. He said, ‘I really want ‘I Feel What I Feel’ on there because it sounds like John Lennon circa 1970, it’s got that vibe’. He kept coming up with these leftfield suggestions. I mean, he picked ‘Snow’ [‘Songs for Randall EP, 2016], the Randy Newman song [first recorded by The Johnny Mann Singers for the album ‘Sixties Mann’ in 1966], which Harry Nilsson had recorded [during the sessions for 1970’s ‘Nilsson Sings Newman’,

although not included on the album], and I love that song and I recorded it in 2015, I think. And he picked that out and they kept coming up with all these quite surprising things that I wouldn’t have expected, so I think it made it very eclectic and interesting. I mean, it’s done very well and had good reviews. Yeah. Is it fair to say then that if you’d selected all the tracks yourself, it would have been a different track list altogether? I’m sure it would. I think I’d probably pick what I thought people would like. And probably some of my own favourites, which doesn’t always mean this other people’s favourites, you know? So yeah, I think having somebody else’s view, and, and because he was quite definite on how he saw this collection, he had this real vision. So, I just went along with it. And it was, I found, really good to have somebody else’s point of view, almost like almost like having a producer, rather than, you know, doing everything

yourself. So yeah, I think it’s made it a better collection than basically me putting it all together. Well, to be honest, John, there’s so much of your music that he could have picked from. You could have probably chosen ten different people to pick 38 tracks and they’d have each come up with a different selection. And each one of them would have been a valid ‘best of’. Did you see the picture up on Facebook recently with all my albums on the shelves? I didn’t put the EPs or the singles on, but I put the all the studio albums up on a shelf where I keep all my CDs, and I put them all up and it just happened to fit everything from ‘Kid in a Big World’ [1975] right the way through to ‘Look …’ [2022]. And I thought ‘too much, do you think?’ But the response was the opposite. It just drove it home to me how much I’ve done, you know, because sometimes I do forget what I’ve done. Neil constantly plays albums of mine here and says ‘Listen to this’, which I might

not have listened to for ten years. When those sorts of things are brought back to you, you remember where you were and when you wrote them, and when you recorded them and what inspired them, you suddenly realise my God, there’s an awful lot of stuff. Just moving on from that to the album that you’ve just released and indeed, in the last ten years or so, you have been really quite prolific. Apart from your solo stuff, there is the music that you’ve done with Ian Button and The Night Mail and then the piano instrumentals album that you did last year, ‘Dreaming I Am Waking: Piano Music for My Father’. It is like you’re very restless and continuing looking at doing things differently. This leads us on to the current album, which again, is a little bit of a departure in that it’s a concept album, one with the arc of a story running through it. Yeah, absolutely. Well, it is a concept album. And yeah, I’ve always wanted to do a concept album, because I come

April Ashley in later years

April Ashley, 1970

from that period of concept albums, that late-’60s, early-’70s period, when they were the rage, and then they became a bit sort of … I think people probably started to think they’re a little self-indulgent, perhaps. And, you know, you had four LP sets by Yes, like ‘Tales of Topographic Oceans’ [1973], and it all got a bit much. I thought, well, I really fancy doing a concept of some sort. And I’d always written, right back to ‘Goodbye Suzie’, stories, songs about the way you’re viewing somebody else’s life or little mini movies of your own life. There was a friend of mine called April Ashley. I used to play in her restaurant in the mid-’70s in Knightsbridge, a little basement restaurant behind Harrods where I played piano and sang. She was she was just this amazing person to talk to, like a wise matron, and she had the great Diana Dors and Danny La Rue and loads of people who were great showbiz friends come to the restaurant. This lady, who gender transitioned without telling anyone in 1960, in Britain, when it wasn’t accepted or understood at the time,

went on to be a famous model and actress. I think she was a Smirnoff model as well at one point in the early-’60s. Utterly beautiful. And then she was outed in 1961 [by The Sunday People newspaper], which ruined her career, just finished her. You know, her modelling career ended, her acting career ended, everything ended. And basically, she kept on going, really, by the fact that she was a lovely person, and a lot of people loved her. She was such a great personality. They came up with this idea of getting a restaurant, and she would front it, and she would run it and she would always be there and be talking to the customers and be the face on the restaurant. And it did really well. I think she got married to a Baron in Scotland [Arthur Corbett, 3rd Baron Rowalian], lived in his castle for three years before the marriage ended. Over the years, we didn’t see each other much, and then, about twenty years ago, we got back in touch and by then, she had a holiday home in Marbella. So, we started ringing each other and she always said ‘You must come down and bring Neil and we’ll

and we’ll have a lovely week’, but we never did it, which I regret because she died in December [2021]. I just finished the album a couple of months previously and I was planning, when it came out, to send her a copy. So, she never heard this album, even though it was completely inspired by her. It’s not actually about her, the story’s different. But there are elements of her in there, so you could say it’s inspired by her and I dedicated it to her as well. But also, I knew quite a few other people through the years who went through a similar transitioning thing and so it’s all their experiences and their stories, and the way they felt which inspired this and the more I thought about it, the more I thought, you know, that this is the perfect concept album if you like, because it lends itself to music and to lyrics and then to a story. So, I just started thinking up this story. And I think the first the first song I wrote for it was ‘Goodbye Daniel’, which begins with Daniel, who is a Pop star and all the rest of it and then disappears off to Hollywood, they think to make a film about his life, and doesn’t turn up as

he detours in his private plane, and goes to Paris to an exclusive clinic where, over many, many months he transitions into Danielle Du Bois and begins a new life in Paris. I’m jumping ahead here talking about tracks, but at the end of that track, now there’s a bit where the voice of the surgeon says ‘Bonjour Mademoiselle’ as she comes out of surgery, having previously said ‘Au revoir monsieur’ as she went into surgery. That was something I always remembered April telling me. That’s quite touching. Was April aware that you were writing the music and words for this story and she was the inspiration behind it? I never mentioned it to her because I wanted it to be a lovely surprise. I wrote a song called ‘Magdalena Merrywidow’, for my album ‘Barefoot with Angels’ [2007] and that was inspired by her, though it’s an eight or nine-minute song. And that was that was the beginning of this, this process of thinking of her story, being inspired to write a song and then moved into

John in 1974

writing the album. But no, she was never aware of it. I think she would have liked it. I hope she would have liked it. One of the things I was going to do was ask you to just briefly run through each of the songs to give us the story of Danielle Du Bois. Let’s go back to the beginning of the album and the first track, ‘Last Night He Woke Up Screaming’, which starts off with a child singing to himself. What’s the background to that track? Well, this child is me at the age of five! My parents had got a Philips tape recorder that Christmas, 1958, and that was like Dad testing it out, you know, I sing a song and he’ll put the tape on and play the piano, because my dad was a fantastic pianist. So that basically, opens the story where Daniel is singing this song, this nursery rhyme, with his mother playing the piano. And it’s a nice little dream that becomes a recurring dream, which then morphs, as dreams can you know, into sort of a

nightmare, a disparate, disturbing situation where white dresses start appearing and start floating past and going towards this altar. There’s a bride standing there, you see the back of the bride and then as the camera comes around, the bride lifts the veil. And it’s the teenage Daniel. His mother hears him screaming as he wakes up from these nightmares night after night. He was brought up in a very strict home, his father was a major in the army, a Second World War hero. He doesn’t abuse him or knock him about it, but he’s very strict with him. He senses, you know, that he’s different and he’s never going to be a soldier fighting in any war. Anyway, he gave him a gun and took him and taught him how to kill and hunt, which Daniel hated. His mother loves her husband and but also loves her son and knows her son’s in trouble, but can’t do anything about it. Because of the time, the world was a different place, nobody understood any of these things really, so at the end of the song he ends up leaving home to live in London. The lyric where the bride lifts the veil is actually a dream I

used to have when I was about eight or nine … there was a wedding and I used to be both bride and groom. It was very strange for an eight or nine year old, quite disturbing. So, it’s a bit of personal experience in there and by the end of the song, he’s left home. Onto his new life. Which leads us into the second song, which is ‘Every Day A New Adventure’, where he’s gone to London and is in awe of the place and excited about his new adventure. One of the things I like about the album is that it’s not just the words to the songs which tell the story, but also the music as well - it matches the mood and sentiment of the lyric. Yeah, and I purposely gave it that light, fairground sort of rhythm, slightly Beatles-esque. It was Ed Rogers who said it was like something that could have been on ‘Sgt. Pepper’ [1967], ‘Benefit of Mr Kite’ sort of thing. It took forever to record because I was doing everything live; as you know, I use hardly any samples at all. I just

have to come up with various ways of getting a programmed effect, or I used different keyboards and used very odd notations so that they sounded strange, went up and down in different keys. It took forever for me to do, but I got very excited about it. And I remember, as I was recording, I thought, ‘well, this sounds like it could have been a Pop single’, you know. So, that’s how that story develops when Daniel gets to London. He’s a very entrepreneurial chap and he sets up his own record label and publishing company, and has a recording studio and records this song himself, which again is a bit of me, you know, because I like to do everything myself in the studio. And it becomes this massive hit, which leads to a film company ... a little bit of Anthony Newley comes in, having that thing of being a pop star, but also a film star ... making a film, all of which goes on in the song and all of which turns him into this huge star. We’ve already talked about track three, ‘Good Day Daniel’. It’s at this point where he decides that this is

not the life that he wants. He wants a different life because he’s got this calling to become Danielle rather than Daniel. Yes, absolutely. Because he already came from a quite wealthy family and he’s now a self-made millionaire. He has the dream, he has the finances, he can do it. The ultimate dream is to become the person he always thought lived within, but couldn’t get out, you know, because he was trapped. And I set it in Paris, because I just thought, well, although London was swinging, Paris was very glamorous. I think that was the slight difference in my head. I mean, I was only a kid in the ‘60s, but Paris always had Brigitte Bardot, Pierre Cardin, the fashions and all that sort of scene. I just thought that it would be a much more glamorous setting for when Daniel transitions into Danielle. That song finishes, as you said earlier, with the line “Bonjour Mademoiselle”, the transition complete, and we move on to the next song, the beautiful ‘The Mirror

(Look!)’ with Danielle taking in what she’d finally become. Okay. So, I’m very, very proud of that song. I wanted that to be almost heavenly, in a way, I wanted it to be this incredible sort of awestruck moment where, you know, she looks in the mirror, and my God, you know, I am not immutable, but I’m everything that I dreamed I could be. It’s happened. And, you know, the voices around, I call them guardian angels. But, you know, whether they’re real or imagined I think it’s up to the listener to decide, but they’re all with her and saying, ‘Yes, you’re absolutely gorgeous’. And that has become, I think, one of them the most popular tracks of the album, because it’s, it’s almost like, it’s almost like the crux of the whole thing. You mentioned the guardian angels, and they make numerous appearances in songs later on as well early. But we’ll come to that a little bit later. But then, once that transition is complete, there’s still a

little bit of reminiscence of the time when Danielle was Daniel, in the next track, ‘Where Did the Boy Go?’. And then moving on to when Danielle moves to Paris with ‘Here I Am in Paris’. Just tell us a little bit about those two songs. Okay, well, ‘Where Did the Boy Go’ is basically about when the fans, the friends, the Hollywood moguls are all waiting for the moment when Daniel arrives in Hollywood, and you know, the film is discussed, and there’s going to be this amazing film of his life story. The fans had all waved him off at the airport, very Beatlemania, like, you know, screaming at the airport and saying goodbye to him. And everyone is saying, ‘Where is he, where has he gone?’ It’s quite a simple song and it’s very Poppy. That’s got quite a lot of radio plays, maybe because it’s got that ‘Hunky Dory’ [David Bowie, 1971], ‘Oh! You Pretty Things’ vibe about it, which I really tried to capture. And obviously, there’s no answer apart from what we know as the listener. In the next song, she is introduced to Parisian

society. And I think, although it’s not in the album story, I’ve since thought it would be quite nice if it was her surgeon who knew all these incredible people in Paris and introduced her to, to this, you know, the highest society in Paris, film stars, models, directors, writers, fashion designers. So that basically is her celebrating the fact that, you know, she’s just having this incredible life, mixing with, with all these glamorous people. film directors and everything. I think it’s quite a triumphant song. It’s quite redemptive because it’s at the point at which she’s truly arrived, you know? Absolutely. The next track introduces another character into the story, Monsieur Boudoir. Is he based on someone real? Probably quite a few of the queens I used to know in the restaurants I played back in the ‘70s! In some of the gay restaurants, I would often meet quite a few Monsieur Boudoir types, you know, promising you the earth and taking you to dinner and all the rest of

it. But he’s more than that really, I mean, it basically translates as ‘Mr. Bedroom’ and he’s this incredibly glamorous character who loves people being in relationships and loves people getting together and likes acting like Cupid almost, you know, sort of bringing people together. So, he has these incredible parties, and literally cherry-picks all the people that he wants for each party. It’s like Danielle is a witness to all this going on over quite a few years. And then, when he dies, he has this incredible funeral where all his followers and fans, and people who he brought together who adore him attend this lavish funeral and he ends up in a mausoleum made of pink marble. The lovely thing about writing a concept album, which I’ve discovered, is that it lets your mind completely go free. You’re not talking about yourself. A little bit perhaps, but generally you’re not talking about yourself or your own situation, which a lot of my songs are as you know, they’re very personal, that come out of personal experience, writing other characters, which I did an awful lot

more in the early-’70s. To have this concept that I can I can work with, it frees your mind up so, you know, he’s buried in a mausoleum of made a pink marble might not have made it in a song if it wasn’t written as part of the concept. Like being a script writer or a screenplay writer, you can visualise these things happening and they just all pour into my head and I just write them all down here. That’s connection. And I sit at the piano and the songs arrive. That’s interesting. You mentioned about scriptwriters and directors and things like that. I’m listening to the album and I thought, there’s a bit of a gap in time between the next two tracks where we fast forward a couple of decades. I was thinking, well, that will be the perfect time for an intermission for a musical or a stage play! Is that something that’s been thought about or talked about? It has. My old producer from the ‘70s, Paul Phillips, is someone I’ve kept in touch with ever since. Whenever I’m working on an album or finish a track, I

always send it to him every time and he comes back to me and makes suggestions here and there, which I usually ignore! But he’s a great guy. He’s very talented and he’s always known exactly how I work. After about the fourth or fifth track I sent him from this album, he said, ‘You know, John, this, this could be a film or musical as it has so much potential for being something other than an album’. I said, ‘Yeah, lovely idea, but I don’t know anybody’. Anyway, he’s already talking to friends of his who he’s known over the years, producers and people involved in musicals, so he’s actually getting the ball rolling. He’s going to Monaco soon, apparently to talk to somebody about the idea. Whether it happens, Dave, I don’t know, as stage musicals have a reputation of folding before they even get on stage, quite often, as there’s a lot of money, a lot of time, a lot of people, millions have to be spent to give what people expect from musicals. If it ever happens, I think it’s going to take quite some time. But it’s lovely that he’s got this idea. And he’s already interested

another chap in the idea. I think also, it would make a good animation project, you know, I think you could actually make a really nice animated movie of it. That way, you could actually get more fantasy elements to it, you know, we don’t have to have live actions. Other people are coming up with these ideas and it seems people who’ve heard it are quite inspired by it, and that’s really fantastic to know. It’s such a good story and it probably resonates today because it’s such an open subject compared with fifty years ago. It’s probably something could be made now as opposed to fifty years ago. Just moving on to the next track on the album, ‘Still Gorgeous’ takes place several decades later and finds Danielle taking stock of her life and where she is at that point. It also introduces a reporter who finds out this story of Daniel transitioning to Danielle. Then there’s the next track, ‘Sticks and Stones’. ‘Still Gorgeous’ just wrote itself. I

knew I wanted this show number in there. When I was performing in Restaurants, there used to be a drag group called the Disappointed Sisters who would come on stage while I was playing, dancing around and making funny faces. I’d also do a duet with the lead singer. I had this idea I could add this in to the show in some way. I thought, how can I get Daniel onstage after all these years? Why would she perform? So, the idea I got was this whole thing about the reporter, hearing somebody else telling the story about this Pop star who then disappeared, which intrigued the reporter enough to investigate. The reporter then gets a phone call saying there were rumours that Daniel was now living in Paris as Danielle. So eventually, she tracks Daniel down and offers to interview her, but Danielle says no, because she’s done with being Daniel and doesn’t want it all bringing back. She’s very happy with who she is now. But she does say, I am actually thinking about performing again. And I’ve been offered to do this gig at this club that I go to. The reporter bites and sees the

show, where Danielle performs ‘Still Gorgeous’ with all her friends on stage. And it’s a big lavish, camp, show number. The reporter writes a review of the show, which turns Danielle into this sensation and everybody wants to know all about Danielle. So, fame comes knocking at the door again. She’s not sure she wants it anymore, but she accepts it and becomes an icon in the gay and transgender communities. Like April, that’s exactly what I’m tapping into. In real life, April became this iconic figure. She was given the keys to Liverpool, where she came from. She was made an OBE for championing transgender rights. They even had exhibitions of April’s paintings in galleries all over the UK. Recording that track was interesting because again, I don’t have anybody to record with, so I had to do all the voices myself and make myself sound like a like a lot of people on stage. I recorded it in different parts of the studio but kept them as it was, so you got this room ambience of different people singing on different parts of the stage. I sent it to Ian Button because he was

going to master the album. He said, ‘Why don’t you come up with some sound effects, like a club audience?’ I said, ‘Well, I don’t know where to get those’. He found all these samples from, I think, the BBC archives of different clubs, audiences. Cheers, laughter, claps applause. And fascinatingly, the one he chose was a recording from the ‘60s of a club in Paris, which also had British people in the audience as well as French people. It was just so perfect. For me, when he did that, it just lifted the track from being a studio recording into a proper live performance. And then we move into ‘Sticks and Stones’. You know, she’s now on the cover of Vogue and everybody wants to talk about Danielle. But, she’s on her own in this apartment and leafing through the magazines and there she is, another article, there she is again, and then starts thinking back to when she was the young Daniel being bullied, which I was too, and being called names in the street, which I was. That was quite a personal song to me in a lot of ways. And that’s how it works, she actually thinks back to what life

was before she became Danielle, living this fantastic life in Paris. I thought it was important to actually pull the story back a little bit to her former life rather than just continuing this line of glamour and fabulousness and all the rest of it, which is great. Yes, right at the end of the song, the angels reappear and everybody’s singing about love. I think the angels are in the next song as well, ‘The Mirror (Look!) Reprise’, which takes in the final days of Danielle? That’s right. Well, it’s basically the death scene and they’re all helping us through the journey, which we’d all like to have wouldn’t we, somebody helping you pass on? Anyway, the angels basically lift her up and carry her off as the song finishes and the next song ’16 (Woo! Woo!)’ starts, where you find the angels are carrying her into her old school classroom, full of her old classmates, having the life that she never had. It’s a joyous occasion, almost like one of those songs from ‘Grease’ [1978], you know, with

everyone singing and dancing and being happy. Very vampy, that sort of vibe and if you notice, there’s that Buddy Holly kind of feel to the song. Then, right at the end of the number, the action freezes and all the stories from her life and snippets of songs come together in one song called ‘A Place in Time’, each version of Daniel / Danielle making an appearance. It’s what I call ‘an afterture’ rather than an overture.

resurrect the Smelly Flowerpot radio show, guess what I’ll be playing first!

It all sounds wonderful; I can only imagine how spectacular it would look if it were to become a musical on stage. It’s very ambitious, but what are your plans now and how do you follow this?

That sounds intriguing, we look forward to hearing it! Best of luck with the new release and further adventures, and thanks for taking the time to talk about your various projects.

Well, I have the third book in the series of my life story, called ‘In the Eyeline of Furtherance’ and covering the time period 1986 to 2001 [this follows ‘Incidents Crowded with Life’, 2018 and ‘Illusions of Happiness, 2020]. That’s the time I was working within the music industry, before ‘Kid in A Big World’ was re-released [in 2001] and during the time I met Neil. I’m also working on another project. I always like to set myself a challenge, so I’m working on a forty minute track …

‘Look - The Unknown Story of Danielle Du Bois’ is out now on Kool Kat Musik whilst the third instalment of Howard’s autobiography, ‘In the Eyeline of Furtherance’ is available via Fisher King Publishing.

A 40 minute track? Yes, 40 minutes. I don’t think it will get any radio airplay! Well, there’s a challenge! If I ever

I hope so! I’ve been working on it for a long time and it’s an exhausting process. It’s all about friendship … the friends you’ve known, the ones you’ve imagined as well as the ones you’ve loved and lost. It deals with how these friendships change over the years, how you change and how your friends change.

kidinabigworld.co.uk

10cc Graham Promises the Ultimate Greatest Hits Package Interview by Martin Hutchinson Photography by Reinoult Bos, except where stated.

“... this is the ‘ultimate’ hits package, as there won’t be any more 10cc hits.”

10cc have announced a new UK tour for 2022, where they will celebrate the hits which have seen them recognised as one of the most inventive and influential bands in popular music. The ‘Ultimate Greatest Hits Tour’ will begin in Liverpool on March 25th, and take in venues around the country, finishing in Gateshead on April 9th. Led by co-founder Graham Gouldman, 10cc are heralded in equal measure for their ability to craft ingenious songs that also resonated commercially. The icons of Art-Rock achieved eleven top ten hits, and over fifteen million albums sold in the UK alone, with three number one singles: ‘Rubber Bullets’ (‘10cc’, 1973); ‘Dreadlock Holiday’ (‘Bloody Tourists’, 1978) and the ubiquitous ‘I’m Not In Love’ (‘The Original Soundtrack’, 1975). The current 10cc line-up features Gouldman (bass, guitar, vocals); Rick Fenn (lead guitar, bass, vocals); Paul Burgess (drums, percussion) – both of

whom have been with the band since the early years - Keith Hayman (keyboards, guitars, bass, vocals) and Iain Hornal (vocals, percussion, guitar, keyboards). In a message to fans, Gouldman says, “It’s difficult to express just how much we have missed playing live and how much we want to be back playing concerts for you. We look forward to seeing you all again in 2022”. In recent years, 10cc have toured worldwide, playing in Australia, Canada, Japan, Iceland, New Zealand, Russia, South Africa, the USA, and across Europe and throughout the UK, including sold out shows to over 60,000 people at British Summer Time (BST) in Hyde Park, and numerous sold out shows at the 5,200 capacity Royal Albert Hall. The band came to prominence in 1972 with the ‘50s Doo-Wop pastiche ‘Donna’ (UK#2, ‘10cc’) and for the next few years were hardly ever out of the charts. Even the fact that one half of the band (namely Kevin Godley and Lol Crème) left, the hits continued with

10cc in 1974. Clockwise from top left: Eric Stewart, Kevin Godley, Graham Gouldman, Lol Creme

both Gouldman and Eric Stewart. Now, Graham Gouldman remains the only original member, although as previously mentioned, guitarist Rick Fenn and drummer Paul Burgess have been part of the touring line-up since the very early days. Relaxing at his home, before starting rehearsals for the tour, Graham tells me that he kept himself busy during lockdown. “I found it quite a creative time”, he says. “I recorded three albums of library music and a solo album called ‘No Words Today’ [the title is a play on the 1966 hit Graham wrote for Herman’s Hermits, ‘No Milk Today’ (UK#7, ‘There’s a Kind of Hush All Over the World’, 1967)]. It’s an instrumental album of songs by other people that I really like.” And the album is helping his musician colleagues: “Yes, the proceeds are going to the ‘Help Musicians’ charity, as the pandemic has hit the industry very hard. I also put a studio in my house. I’ve resisted doing this for many years, but it’s proved to be a godsend.”

The title of the tour, using the word “ultimate” might sound as though it means that this could be 10cc’s last tour, but Graham is quick to put the matter straight. “No, it doesn’t”, he affirms. “It just means that this is the ‘ultimate’ hits package, as there won’t be any more 10cc hits.” And Graham promises us more than the hits. “Yes, I’m hoping to do two newish songs”, he says. “One I wrote with Iain Hornal. He was recording an album [‘The Game Begins With the Lights Out’, 2017] and there is this track called ‘Say the Word’, which is very, very 10cc. Also, a song called ‘Standing Next to Me’, which is the opening track of my last solo album ‘Modesty Forbids’ [2020]. Also, we’ll have my old bandmate Kevin Godley on the video screen performing ‘Somewhere in Hollywood’ [‘Sheet Music’, 1974], which we’ve done in previous tours. And among the others that don’t get performed all the time is ‘Clockwork Creep’ [‘Sheet Music’] and we hope to do ‘Baron Samedi’ [‘Sheet Music’]. I’m very wary of set lengths, it evolves as

we go.” As well as 10cc, Graham wrote hits for The Hollies, The Yardbirds and Herman’s Hermits, so he has a vast catalogue of songs, but which song is he most proud of? “That’s a difficult question to ask a songwriter as I’m proud of all of them and there’s very few things that I regret doing.”, he replies, “but, if pressed, probably ‘Bus Stop’ [The Hollies, UK#5, ‘Bus Stop’, 1966]. To me, I came the nearest to what I wanted to achieve.” Not content to pause much, Graham has a few things in the pipeline: “I’m doing another solo album and later in the year one of my ‘Heartful of Songs’ solo tours. Also, I’m appearing at The Barbican in

London in a show entitled ‘Songs in the Key of London’, arranged by Chris Difford of Squeeze. With 10cc, we’re doing some dates with Toto in Sweden and Denmark, then we’re off to Holland, Australia and New Zealand, as well as appearing at some festivals. In fact, I think we’re doing more gigs these days than we ever did because we’re not taking time out to do albums.” Tickets for the shows are available from the Box Offices and all the usual agencies. For all 10cc tour dates and other news, visit the links below: 10cc.world www.facebook.com/ 10ccBand

Hue and Cry The Kanes are Still Able Interview by Alice Jones-Rodgers.

“Pat and I are not afraid of change, it gives you an opportunity to be inventive.”

It is the 11th June 1987 and Margaret Thatcher’s Conservative government have just been elected for a third successive term with a majority of 102 seats. Meanwhile, Hue and Cry, a duo consisting of Pat and Greg Kane, brothers from Coatbridge, 8.5 miles east of Glasgow city centre are gearing up to question the British voting public as to why they would ever want to vote Tory with ‘Labour of Love’, the second single from their upcoming debut album, ‘Seduced and Abandoned’ (1987, UK#22). ‘Labour of Love’ enters the UK top 40 singles chart at number 61 just two days after Thatcher vows to continue her reign of terror for another three miserable years and with the brothers having cleverly disguised their opposition to the Iron Lady as an infectiously Poppy, radio-friendly, uniquely Latin-flavoured, three-and-a-halfminute love song, within a matter of weeks, it will have peaked at number six. This level of songwriting ingenuity

wasn’t just limited to ‘Labour of Love’ and during the remainder of the ‘80s, Hue and Cry returned to the UK top 40 with ‘Looking for Linda’ (1989, UK#15) and ‘Violently’ (1989, UK#21), two singles taken from their hugely successful and still much loved second album, 1988’s ‘Remote’. As the ‘80s (and, incidentally, Thatcher’s reign) ended, Pat and Greg began to experiment with a variety of new musical styles and the ‘90s saw them take on Folk and Country with their third album, ‘Stars Crash Down’ (1991) and Jazz on ‘Showtime!’ (1994); ‘Piano and Voice’ (1995) and ‘Jazz Not Jazz’ (1996) and even Drum ‘N’ Bass, R&B and Latin Funk on 1999’s ‘Next Move’. A six year break followed before the brothers were invited to take part in ITV’s Pop competition show ‘Hit Me Baby One More Time’. After reaching the final, only to be knocked out by Shakin’ Stevens, one might have forgiven Hue and Cry for rebuilding their career simply relying

on their previous successes, but instead, they took off where they left off in 1999 by continuing to broaden their sound across five brand new albums, ‘Open Soul’ (2008); ‘Xmas Day’ (2009); ‘Hot Wire’ (2012); ‘September Songs’ (2015) and ‘Pocketful of Stones’ (2017). And in 2022, Hue and Cry may have signed up for this September / October’s 21-date Essential 80’s Tour alongside T’Pau and Paul Young, but they are also set to cause a sensation very firmly rooted in the 21st Century with a brand new, long awaited and as yet untitled album, which for the first time finds them entering the realms of Electronic Dance Music. To find out more about this curious balancing act between being one of the most sought after commodities on the 80’s nostalgia scene and still having the drive and ambition to push the musical envelope with new releases, we recently caught up with Greg at Hue and Cry’s studio in Scotland, where there was even talk of a slice of cake!

Firstly, hello Greg and thank you for agreeing to our interview, it is lovely to speak to you. Let’s start at the here and now, because September and October this year sees you head out on the 21-date Essential 80’s Tour alongside T’Pau and Paul Young. You have been back out on the road since pretty much since COVID-19 restrictions were lifted, so the most obvious question to ask at the moment is how have you found the experience of playing live in this ‘New Normal’ environment? We did the festivals last year. The early ones didn’t make it, but the later ones did, so we were doing festivals from Henley down to Somerset, back up to Carlisle and in the Northern Kin Festival [Durham, September 2021], which was amazing. So, we got towards the end, it was getting a bit cold though, we were pushing them back until late August and early September, but the audiences were crazy, they were nuts! I mean, you can tell ... oh, you can tell people have been through a bit of an ordeal, so the

audiences were pretty amazing! But the festivals were good and then our manager and our promoters said ‘Do you want to go out towards the end of the year?’ And Pat and I, touch wood, we’ve never got anywhere near this COVID. My partner works for the NHS, so we’ve been quite diligent at home, so we’ve all got our own towels ... we’ve all got monogram towels in our house so nobody uses anybody else’s towels! I go shopping at eight o’clock on a Monday morning in the supermarket when there’s nobody there, just me and a few old ladies! And we’ve got our own studio up here, so I just come to work on my own, so there’s no change. When this all started, there was, in the music business, in the music producing and stuff that I do, people were looking forward to it, they were thinking ‘this is gonna be great, because there’s no change in my life’, because we all work on my own most of the time, but it didn’t really work out that way. There was a lot of de-motivation and a lot of kind of mental health issues with everybody and people trying to deal

with it, so I think we were all pretty starved and it’s going to take us a wee while to recover, but the gigs that we did towards the end of the year, which were theatre gigs, four or 500 seater theatres, were even more crazy because people were just dying to get out and to be honest Alice, Pat and I did about two or three of the best gigs we’ve ever done during the last three or four months. I don’t know whether it was the elation of being on stage again or the crowd reaction and we’ve played big, busy kind of bar, club venues on a Friday night and you walk on stage and you think ‘this is not going to work’, it’s just Pat and I on our own with a piano and sometimes it can get a wee bit melancholy, but my God, the tension was incredible and when we let them go nuts, we played ‘Labour of Love’ [1987, UK#6, ‘Seduced and Abandoned’]; ‘[Looking for] Linda’ [1989, UK#15, ‘Remote’] and ‘Ordinary Angel’ [1988, UK#42, ‘Remote’] and they are all going properly nuts! You know, we were on the stage and we were thinking, ‘we’re not really a Punk band, or a Rock band,

Greg (left) and Pat in 1987

this is nuts!’ But I think we were so happy to be out and we take a lateral flow test everyday when we’re out on tour, we don’t go home or anything, so we try to keep it as safe as we possibly can. The only thing I do really miss is Pat and I always went out after the show to say ‘Hi’ to everybody, on the premise of selling merchandise, but most of our fans have bought everything, they’ve got everything, so going out after the gig was more to do with just hanging out and we did it quite faithfully after every gig and the reason being is a band like Hue and Cry that have been on the road for 35 years, nearly forty years, these people have grown up with our music and our songs kind of stamp moments in their lives and they’re just dying to tell you about it! They’re dying to tell you when their children were born, they’re dying to tell you when their mothers and fathers passed away, they’re dying to tell you when they made contact with an old friend or made contact with a brother or sister that they hadn’t seen for a while ... cousins. There were these three guys that we used to meet all the time in

London, they used to come to Islington, and one time, they said ‘Do you want to go for a beer?’ And I said, ‘Well, you know what, I’m going to walk back to the hotel, I’ll walk up Islington high street with you and I’ll have a beer’. And the three of them were three cousins and one of the brothers had died and he was a huge Hue and Cry fan and the other three of them didn’t particularly like Hue and Cry, but they came to the gig every time it was close to the anniversary of the death of their cousin and their brother and they stood there and suffered Hue and Cry, because they didn’t really like Hue and Cry [laughs], and honestly, they were the loveliest guys. I couldn’t stop laughing ... I said, ‘You don’t really like it, do you?’ and they said, ‘No, not really! [Laughs]. We’re more kind of Rock guys, but we do it because it really kind of focuses ... We used to do him a favour. We said, ‘Right, we’ll come and see Hue and Cry with you’ when he was alive and we kept the whole thing going’. I’ve had so many urns of ashes brought to me. And that’s the thing I miss the most, because you

you can’t really do it yet, we can’t expose ourselves to, you know, fifty, sixty people crowded round a table at the end of a gig. We’re not there yet and that’s the bit I miss the most. But it will come back. Yeah, hopefully soon! As we just mentioned, the Essential 80’s Tour also features T’Pau and Paul Young. Are these two acts that you worked alongside much in the early days of Hue and Cry? Well, this is the thing. We would see them. I met Carol [Decker] many times and met Paul many times, but in the ‘80s, when we were all kind of young and trying to start our careers and trying to build the foundation of our careers, you would see them at TV shows, you would see them at some festivals, but mostly TV shows, but everybody had their own schedules and on these TV shows, you had your slot and you rushed out to do something else, so you very rarely met people. You maybe met them in the corridor or in the canteen to say ‘Hi’, but you

would very rarely see spend any time together and then, you know, people think you go back to the hotel and go crazy, but you go back to the hotel and try to get some sleep because you’ve got a five or six o’clock start the next morning and you’ve got to sing live at half past eight somewhere at a radio station! So, even at the hotels, you would maybe meet them at check-in and check-out and say ‘Hi’ and that was it. So, if you wind forward thirtyfive years to now, when we do these Summer festivals, these ‘80s festivals, now we get to hang, now it’s all very relaxed and everybody’s sitting back stage and the kids are running about, or sometimes our kids are playing in the same bands as them. It’s just all kids and it’s all people sitting and you get to hang out when you never got to before and there’s lots of people reflecting on what happened and hearing experiences and it’s amazing experience meeting up with these people again, because you feel as though you’ve known them. You’ve seen them in magazines next to your face your whole life and then when you sit down and just hang out

with them ... I mean, I could tale to you for hours about sitting and talking to Howard Jones and sitting hanging with Nik Kershaw! Nik Kershaw is a lovely guy! He’s great! A lot darker than you think. Musically, I mean, he’s written some of the best Pop songs you’ve ever heard, but if you sit and listen to him and talk to him about music, it can get quite deep somehow and then Howard Jones is a synth genius and then there’s the guys in Orchestral Manoeuvres in the Dark, I was never really the biggest fan and when I sit and talk to them now, it’s really great fun to hang out. And Carol Decker is such a firecracker! She’s so leftfield, I love her to bits! You never know what you’re going to get out of her! [Laughs]. And then Paul [Young] is such a genuine man. He’s another great music lover. My God, I love the thing he does with his Mexican, sort of Mariachi band, absolutely ... I love the thing he does with that! But, I mean, when you see Paul’s show, it’s some of the classic songs of your own childhood and I remember all those records and I remember seeing him doing all the

the things that he’s done. So, I’ve had some lovely nights with Paul Young, he’s a really, really fun guy to hang out with and he’s a very elegant man. This tour that we’re doing with Paul Young and Carol [Decker] has been getting a lot of attention, so we did lots of TV about ten days, a week ago and it all went really well and everybody seemed to think we were looking and sounding good, so it’s all been very positive. For men of a certain age, it’s always good to put yourself in front of a TV camera and see how it all goes. We’ve still got it, seemingly! There has often been a political element to Hue and Cry’s lyrics. Your breakthrough number six hit, 1987’s ‘Labour of Love’, the second single (following ‘I Refuse’, 1986, UK#85) from that year’s debut album, ‘Seduced and Abandoned’, cleverly describes both an unhappy romantic relationship and the unhappy relationship between the electorate and the Conservative government of the time. When you wrote songs like ‘Labour of Love’,

was there a conscious desire to reflect the times we were living through with your music? Well, the thing is, songwriters comment on what’s happening around them. You know, when I go back to the last two years of isolation, that’s why songwriting has been really difficult, because what have got around you? What are you experiencing? You’re experiencing the four walls and your close family, so you don’t get much inspiration from that. So, we, as songwriters, draw from what’s happening around us. When Pat and I come in to the room to write, we usually come in with nothing and then we’ll just talk about what both of us have experienced recently, with friends, or getting angry at some news report, or getting excited about a film, or getting excited about a design of a building, or getting excited about wildlife, or ... and we just talk about that and the song evolves from that. So, at that time, in 1987, you know, especially in Scotland, Margaret Thatcher was not very popular and Pat and I were trying to be

as pragmatic as we possibly could to try and figure out why working class people would vote Tory and the whole song [‘Labour of Love’] is trying to dissect that. It’s like turkeys voting for Christmas, why would you do that?! That’s what was happening all around us in 1986, 1987, especially in Scotland. But funnily enough, ‘Labour of Love’ was written in London. It was written just off Oxford Street, that’s where our publisher’s headquarters were, but Pat has been in London since the mid-’80s and I’ve been up in Glasgow, so I would commute down on the Nightrider. Do you remember the Nightrider train? Yeah! I can’t remember, it used to be £15 to get down to London on the Nightrider and you’d sit in those big, horrible, old orange seats! They were first class carriages though, but just not very comfortable because through the night, the train had to compete with all the cargo and freight that was on the line, so it would take you about eight hours to get to London! So, I used to do that two or three times a month to go down and work with my brother,

but what came out of one of those journeys was ‘Labour of Love’; we wrote that in London in 1986. So, it’s just what is happening all around us, Alice, that’s what we write about. Do you feel that with the two of you being brothers, there is an element of telepathy when you set about writing? I wouldn’t ... would I call it telepathy? You might be right. What happens with Pat and I is, you know, I’ll just sit at the piano and he’ll sing, write down some words and he’ll come up with a melody, or we’ll find a melody together, but it’s quite funny ... we don’t leave the room until we can play a verse and a chorus and a verse and a chorus. We don’t leave the room until we can walk down to the nearest open stage and just play the song. So, we have to complete it, it’s just something we’ve always done and sometimes it can take an hour, sometimes it can take a day, it just depends where you’re at. But, as far as telepathy is concerned, we recognise each other’s body

language. We don’t have to say anything, but if I come up with a nice melody or harmonic kind of progression and I keep playing it and he [Pat] keeps ignoring it, then I know he doesn’t want to sing it! He won’t say to me, ‘I don’t like that’, he just won’t react! [Laughs]. So, it’s like trying to sort of say to someone, ‘What do you think of this?’ and they just completely ignore you! So, that happens and it’s not so much telepathy, but I understand after I try and play him these chords and I’ve done them four times and he’s completely not reacted to them, I know, ‘oh Greg, that’s the wrong lane to go down, the wrong avenue to go down’ and I’ll go down a different way! So, not so much telepathy, but body language. We don’t say to each other, ‘Don’t like that, don’t want to do that’, we just don’t say anything! [Laughs]. It’s quite funny because we’ve been working on a new album recently and I sent Pat some mixes that I’ve done and if he doesn’t replay within two days, I know he doesn’t like it! It’s as though we’ve taken the negativity out of what

we do and how we react to each other and there’s just NO reaction! If there’s a positive reaction, then I will say ‘That’s a positive reaction!’ But there’s no negative reaction, there’s just NO reaction! Going right back to those early days of you and Pat coming together as Hue and Cry, how did the two of you first come to start writing songs and making music together and find your sound? Pat is two years above me, age-wise, so at school, he was more interested in musical theatre, so he was doing ‘Carousel’ and ‘West Side Story’. At that time, it was coming out of the ‘70s and going into the early-’80s, so I was focusing on music. I was a saxophone player from a young age, so I was playing stuff by like UB40 and The Boomtown Rats and that sort of sax-led stuff and the band I was in were playing Punk and Ska and Pat was sort of doing musical theatre and then one band I was in, the singer didn’t want to do it anymore and we were looking for a

singer and I said ‘Well, what about my brother?’ And the band said, ‘What, the guy that does all the musical theatre?’ I said, ‘He’s a good singer and he’s a smart guy, he reads more books than anyone I know’ [laughs], so they said ‘Okay, let’s try him’. So, we went into that band and they were called The Winning Losers and we’d recorded some demos, we started getting played on the radio, because Pat’s got quite a distinctive voice, so they started to get interested in his voice and the other guys got a wee bit pissed off because it was kind of their band and Pat was quite dominant as a kind of personality and a musician and I’m quite a dominant musician as well, so I don’t think they liked it. So, after we got a little bit of success with some of the recordings being played on local radio and the gigs getting a little bit busier, they threw Pat and me out of the band! [Laughs]. They didn’t like what was happening. So, it was fine, Pat and I are both dominant people, so you can only be honest and true to yourself, so we went to another band and [laughs] and the same thing happened there and

then I looked at him and I said ‘Do you know what Pat? We should do this on our own’. And we got hold of a drummer that I liked, so we did some recordings with just Pat and I and a drummer and I played bass and piano and saxophone and guitar and Pat sang and I sang and the drummer played the drums and that’s how it happened. Back in those days, they used to give you money to go to university, they used to give you a grant, so we used to use the money we got for our grant ... not all of it, but a little bit of it, to make these demos and they started to get played on the radio. This would be about 1981-’82. I was sixteen, Pat would have been, ooh, nineteen, and then he left university and went down south to do a journalism course and at the time that was all happening, the studio where we were making all these recordings, the guy that owned it, the last time we went in, said ‘Look, you don’t have to pay for this if you let me manage you’ and, as starving students, we said, ‘Can we put that fifty quid back in our pocket?’ and he want ‘Yep!’ So, I remember going home and saying

to my father and he said ‘Do you sign anything?’ and I said ‘No, we didn’t sign anything’. And so, that manager, Alan [McNeil], we never signed a contract with Alan and he was our manager for the next ten years. He was our manager throughout all the hits and he was a young guy like us, he was only a few years older than us and he’d never been a manager before, he’d only worked in a recording studio. But he was a smart guy Alan and he led us through all the chaos of, you know becoming famous and a Pop star in the ‘80s. So, that’s how it all sort of happened. Following 1999’s ‘Next Move’ album, you took a break to work on separate projects. We spoke to Carol Decker of T’Pau recently and she was suggesting that during the ‘90s, there was a fair bit of disdain for bands who had become popular in the ‘80s. How much of the decision to stop producing music together at this point was informed by changes you had seen in the music industry during the ‘90s?

I’d never thought about that, that’s a good question Alice! I’d never thought about that, but what happened was, Pat has got a first class degree in English Literature from Glasgow University, so the music business and writing songs, he loves and he loved, but it wasn’t enough for him to get all his ideas out, so he got the chance to be the editor of a new broadsheet newspaper in Scotland called The Sunday Herald, so he said, ‘Look, I need time to do this’ and I said, ‘That’s fine’. And then, as you said, the last two albums we did were ‘Jazz Not Jazz’ [1996] and ‘Next Move’ [1999] and they were for a Jazz record label [Linn Records] and they were very heavily Jazz-influenced and I’d met a lot of cool Jazz musicians through doing those two projects, so I moved more towards that and I started working with the Scottish National Jazz Orchestra and started working with, you know, famous Jazz musicians like John Schofield, John Patitucci, a lot of kind of famous Jazz musicians who’d come over from America and I would look after them, so the sound, make sure they were all okay and like I said,

working with the Jazz on Jazz Orchestra was an incredible experience because, you know, I was in charge of an orchestra the size of 22, 25 people. So, we just did that and we just moved away and then I started getting involved with some younger bands, an all-girl Punk band called The Hedrons and a young kind of Beat band called The Ronelles and both of them did well, went to Texas and Japan. I just started working with Indie bands and started running my own studio, still making music, but not with my brother and I also think ... we did that for about five or six years, maybe ... and I think that’s what saved Pat’s voice, because he took time off from singing at just the right time. Because I know that Carol and Paul and everyone, they kept going and tried to sort of muscle on through the late-’90s and early-noughties, but Pat and I took a rest and I think it stood us in good stead because, you know, we’ve still got the energy and we’ve still got the ability, you know, all this time later and I think it’s because we took those five years off.

It is amazing how many bands say that actually, how much good a rest can do. We were still playing big venues, the records were still doing really well, we were still signed to BMG, but everybody was fine with it. We had a good run and that was from ‘87 right through to the noughties, end of the ‘90s. So, we had a good ten, eleven, twelve year run at it and took five years off and then we came back with a bang in 2005 with this big TV show. We did the ‘Hit Me Baby One More Time’ [ITV] TV show and I wasn’t for doing it, because I hadn’t done Saturday night TV for a long time and I was slightly overweight and I said to Pat, ‘I need to go on a diet then!’ [Laughs]. I said, ‘Oh shit, I’m too old for dieting!’ And the cabbage soup diet was ... oh my God! And we managed to lose as much weight as we could and we did the show, but the people that were making the show were very young, all the production team was young, and that was kind of good too because they were so enthusiastic about all the bands

that were doing it and I was thinking ‘Oh, this is quite good!’ And then, when we won our heats and we got to the final, this young production company gave us all the stats and the Saturday night that we won our kind of heat, we said to them, ‘Can you tell us how many people phoned and voted on Saturday night?’ and they said, ‘160,000 people voted’. And when they said that, Pat and I both stopped and looked at each other and went ‘What?!’ And that was when we realised that there was still 160,000 people actually bothered to pick up the phone and say ‘Hue and Cry’. And that gave us quite an impetus to figure out what to do next and we set about trying to find those 160,000! [Laughs]. And it’s been sixteen years since then and in those sixteen years, we’ve managed to find 35,000 of them Not all of them, but enough of them and we’ve used all the different means, from social media to contacting venues where they’ve got databases of all the people who’ve bought Hue and Cry tickets. Pat and I went on a bit of a detective investigation to try and find them!

That’s 35,000 people that we managed to find who want to come and see Hue and Cry, who want to buy our records, who want to get involved in our social media and we managed to restart our career. And, you know, recently, there’s a band called Mogwai, a Scottish band who had a number one [with ‘As the Love Continues’, 2021] and I’m quite friendly with Stuart [Braithwaite] and I said to Stuart, ‘Stuart, if you don’t mind me asking ... congratulations by the way for the getting to number one ... how many records did you sell?’ And he said, ‘We sold 13,000 records to get to number one, Greg’ and I went ‘Oh!’ and he was like, ‘Well, what do you mean?’ And I said, ‘Well, ‘Labour of Love’ got to number six and it sold 350,000 records!’ I’m looking at the platinum disc right now on the wall of my studio! I said, ‘So, the music business has completely changed’. In 1987, you would need 350,000 people to buy your record for it to get to number six and we thought you would need hundreds and thousands of people to restart your career, but you don’t, you just need

enough. We’ve got about 35,000 people that come to gigs, buy records, get involved in social media. That’s all you need, which is a tenth of what you needed before! Yeah, the whole thing’s completely changed and Pat and I are not afraid of change, it gives you an opportunity to be inventive and to create things and, you know, we’re in a good place, Alice. Obviously, as you were saying there, so much has changed in the music industry over the course of Hue and Cry’s career, with social media now being the dominant way of promoting yourselves and downloading and streaming sites now being the main way people listen to music. How easy or difficult have you found it to adapt to such changes over the years? We’ve found it quite easy to adapt. All the infrastructure around us, the record labels, the publishing companies, they’ve found it difficult. It’s not easy and when you make music ... we used to make music and, as I say, I’m

looking at my studio, at the platinum discs and the gold discs that are hanging around, and that was my prize, to make a record that would be popular and it would sell 300,000 copies, or 100,000 copies. That’s gone now, so when you make music, to record music, it’s really just to promote you as a band for people to go and see live. That’s the change and that’s a difficult thing for a lot of musicians to deal with, because in actual fact, they’re spending a year and a half, writing, recording and producing twelve songs that are basically just for promotion and you don’t really make any money from them. That’s the big change and that was tough for me, I must admit. It was quite hard, because I’ve spent my whole life beavering away in studios trying to make music that is going to connect with people on the radio and that was hard, but it is what it is now and I quite enjoy doing it. It’s more difficult to make music now, because there’s so much music out there, so you have to kind of block everybody off and try not to be influenced too much by what’s going

on around you and just make the music that you want to make, because when you get involved in studying everybody else’s music, it just becomes so noisy that you don’t even know where to start. I just cocoon myself in this studio here and don’t listen to anybody else, don’t talk to anybody else and I just make music that Pat and I want to make and that’s what it is. Well, that’s it, isn’t it? Because you have to stay true to yourself, you can’t just go out and try to copy what the trend is. No, you can’t. I do that a lot when I’m working with other bands, because when I’m working with younger bands, I like to have a reference of where they’re coming from. I know where Pat and I are coming from, I don’t have to have a reference for where we come from, but with a lot of other bands, I just find it difficult to find out what their references are. I mean, a lot of people are influenced by their parents’ record collection, so, I mean, it’s funny, my nine-year-old daughter plays Justin

Bieber constantly in the car and I keep hearing ‘80s American Pop Rock all over the place when she plays Justin Bieber. I tell her there’s far too much swearing and I’m like ‘Why are bands swearing so much?!’ I don’t understand why they have to swear so much! [Laughs]. There’s a time and a place for swearing! I enjoy swearing, I like making my point and getting energised and enthusiastic, but I don’t understand why they’ve got to swear all the way through the song. But, anyway! It’s all ‘A,B,C,D,E,F you and your mum and your dad and your friends and your job and F your car’. I mean, what?! What?! Well, yeah, it just becomes swearing for the sake of it, doesn’t it? I know, because when we swear, it’s kind of a bit of an occasion! Haha, yes, exactly! Earlier, you were saying about how 2005 saw you make a comeback when you took part in the ITV1 Pop competition show, ‘Hit Me Baby One More Time’. You won

the fourth week heat by performing ‘Labour of Love’ and a cover of Beyoncé’s ‘Crazy in Love’ (‘Dangerously in Love’, 2003), but were beaten in the final by Shakin’ Stevens. You have always been a band with plenty to say, as demonstrated by the fact that you have released five albums since your reformation (‘Open Soul’, 2008; ‘Xmas Day’, 2009; ‘Hot Wire’, 2012; ‘September Songs’, 2015 and ‘Pocketful of Stones’, 2017) and you continue to experiment with many different musical styles, so how keen were you to embrace the whole ‘80s nostalgia scene when you came back together? We didn’t know much about it. My brother, as I‘ve said before, when people slag Hue and Cry, they either say ‘Hue and Cry are the Frasier and Niles [‘Fraiser’, NBC, 1993-2004] of the Scottish music industry’, or they say ‘Hue and Cry are Kurt Cobain and Liza Minelli’. My brother’s very Liza Minelli and I’m Kurt Cobain, I’m the miserable guy who just likes to play.

That’s not entirely true, but I’m the more thoughtful one, he’s the flamboyant one and he does call himself Liza Minelli! So, when we got approached to do this, he was chomping at the bit. So, we didn’t have a manager at the time. I was kind of managing stuff to do with Hue and Cry and I’d been working with another manager called Dougie Souness with the younger bands that I’d been working with and he was a very, very good manager. He worked with Marcus [Russell], Oasis’ manager, worked with Alan McGee [Souness also once managed fellow Scottish Pop act Wet Wet Wet], so I said ‘Do you know what Pat? This guy’s been really good to me and I’ve really enjoyed working with him. Can we let him manage this? Because these guys are sending us TV contracts and recording contracts and I don’t really know what these contracts are nowadays, it’s been ten or fifteen years since I’ve looked at one. So, our manager, Dougie, came on board and was such a kind of stabling influence on us, because we didn’t really know ... you saw these

other ‘80s bands that didn’t have a powerful manager on these Saturday night TV shows and you felt as though, hhhhmmmm, they might be getting the piss taken out of them a wee bit, we need to be careful here ... not in a band way, just in a kind of business way. But our manager was not like that, they were doing everything through him, so we did really well out of that show because of him, because of his diligence. And after that, we sat down, the three of us and said, you know, ‘Why don’t we create a thing between the three of us and we’ll split it three ways and we’ll just see what happens?’ So, we signed a new management contract in 2008 with him and then him and his people have created the Hue and Cry monster as it is today! So, that TV show was a fantastic experience for us. It taught me how to diet again! I know which one works! The Scarsdale diet, that’s the one that works for me, Doctor Scarsdale! You can lose two pounds a day! But you can’t do it for more than two weeks, or you get rushed to hospital! You can lose nearly two stone in two weeks, it does work! You

need to enjoy cooking though! You have to kind of put a bit of effort in. As long as you enjoy cooking, it’s great! But that’s the one that works for me. Recommended to me by ... I think we were doing a photoshoot and the wardrobe person had said, ‘Have you ever heard of the Scarsdale diet?’ I said, ‘Don’t be so cheeky!’ She said, ‘No, I’m just saying, if you want to try a diet!’ And she was right! You need to give Pat and I three weeks notice before a photo session! [Laughs]. As we mentioned earlier, Hue and Cry have experimented with many different musical styles over the years, including Soul, Pop, Jazz, Drum ‘N’ Bass, R&B, Latin Funk, Folk and Country, but we noticed somewhere that you are currently working on an EDM album. When can we expect to hear the result and what can you tell us about the new album at this point? Right! Well, we finished writing the new album just before lockdown. The last writing date was in February 2020

and we’d written eighteen songs, but before that, Pat wanted to record an Electronic album and I said ‘Okay then, I’ve never really worked in Electronic music. I bought some synths back in the ‘80s, but you need to give me a bit of time to get up to speed’. So, we invested a chunk of money buying synths. I researched a lot to do with synthesizers and it was the right time to get into Electronic Music because the price of synthesizers had gone really down, because the old synthesizers that were made in the ‘70s, the copyright for the technologies is now out of copyright, so it was the perfect time. So, like Behringer and Roland and Korg were making these synths that would have cost you tens of thousands of pounds, but you can pick them up for several hundred quid now. So, I looked up everything to do with these synths and I started at ‘Synth 101’ page one and I tried to figure out how this works and it’s been such a journey, Alice. It’s been very hard and I don’t know if you know anybody who’s into Electronic Music, but you become even more monastic and even more of a

hermit! Oh my God, so you can lose DAYS in here and my daughter or my partner, she’ll be like ‘Are you coming home?’ And I’m like ‘What day is it?’ Literally! So, it was an amazing experience writing to all these synths. Pat and I had never done anything like this before, so the songs are quite different to what people would expect from Hue and Cry. None of them are below 123bpm. Yes, so we had an amazing experience and then COVID hit and I thought ‘I’ll get this record ready, I’ll work during COVID and get it done’, that never happened because to make a Dance album, an Electronic Dance album for people that are not allowed to dance was really quite a weird experience. So, the songs are all written, they’re all sitting there and Pat came up and sang a bit about six months ago and I just need to try to push them over the line and get them finished. But it’s all there, Alice! It sounds great! I won’t give you any hints and the name of the album has changed a few times. It’s an Electronic Dance album!

That sounds amazing! It is, it is! God knows how we’re going to play it live though! I need to have a talk with the band, but I’ve got another keyboard player, he’s heard some of it and he loves it, so he can do that, I just need to figure out what everybody else wants to do. We’ve got a horn section, a drummer and bass player, so we need to figure it out, what we’re going to do. But whenever Pat and I write songs, we can play any of these songs just sitting at the piano. There’s a guy called Sam Sparro, who did ‘Black and Gold’ [‘Sam Sparro’, 2008] a few years ago. Sam, I kind of referenced him quite a lot because he’s a big Electronica, not pioneer, but protagonist and he’s always done Electronic Music, that’s the way he makes his music. So, I was referencing him quite a lot and if you watch him, there’s a few videos of him just sitting and playing ‘Black and Gold’ with a piano player, so it works. So, I thought ‘well, if he can do ‘Black and Gold’ just at a piano, then we can do any of these songs that we’ve written with synths on piano’ and lo

and behold, we can. The songs are there, they’re very Electronica, sometimes they go a bit left-field, because I was listening to an awful lot of very dark left-field Electronic podcasts. There’s one called ‘Data Cult Audio’, which was very dark. So, sometimes it can get dark, which is okay, I don’t mind about dark [laughs], but it gets a bit light as well, so Pat and I’s Pop sensibilities are still there, but it’s on a background of very dark Electronica. Yeah, so it’s good! Wow, that sounds amazing! I love what you were saying there, that even the songs are Electronica, you can still sit down at a piano and play them, because for me, when you can strip a song down to its bare elements, that is the sign of a good song. Yeah, it is. I mean, there’s an old Jazz adage when they say ‘You can play any song any way if it’s a decent song’. So, it doesn’t really matter what you do and songs, especially in EDM music ... we still like writing verses and choruses,

it’s just something we grew up with, but writing to this sort of format, you don’t need as many verses and choruses as Pat and I once thought you needed. You kind of let the sonics engage with your listener for a wee bit longer, because that’s just the style of music. So, we’re very excited about it [the new album], we’re dying to let people hear it, but we just need to get it over the line, Alice. After this interview, I shall turn on my snyths and start work! You will be lost in your room for another few days! Well, I’m looking at it now and we bought 27 analog synthesizers and they’re all over the walls and they’re all connected! Well, we turned off the computer. We didn’t use the computer to write the music. The synthesizers all talk to each other and they all talk to each other in a certain way. It was great getting away from the computer! Not easy to do, as I said, it took about eighteen months, two years to get proficient at it and I learned every day. Every day, I came in and turned them

on for an hour and every day, I did that, I learned something new. So, it’s a constant learning process working with them, but it’s been great fun! I do a lot of sound restoration as well, so I’m doing the sound restoration on an old Soul track by a guy called Ronaldo Domino. He’s an old Northern Soul sort of thing. So, what happens is, I learned how to do restoration, so if somebody sends you a crackly old record, I can get rid of all that ... so I did it really well for a couple of clients about three or four years ago and I maybe do about eight or nine of these a month now. Wow! So, is that through the computer then? Yes, there’s a company called Isotope who make ... so, if you and I were talking in a room, acting in a scene in a movie and the microphone has picked up the air conditioning, they would send the file to me and I would remove the air conditioning. It’s called forensic audio restoration, that’s what you do. The thing is, you don’t completely remove the air conditioning, because you can see the air conditioning and if you completely take the air conditioning out, it doesn’t look right, so what I do is I separate it up for them and they can decide how much of the air conditioning they want. So, when you bring that to music, I get sent these files or sometimes I get sent cassettes, I get sent old vinyl and I’ve set up an old record deck in here and what I would

do, I would transfer that over and what they [the client] wants to do is, they want to re-press these records and they only do short runs of about, I don’t know, 300 to 500 and they sell them all around the world. But these are recordings that would have been lost forever, this is the last surviving 7” of this recording. It’s all that sort of stuff. A lot of people get a bit funny about it because they say, ‘Well, that’s what gives it it’s value’, but what happens then is people don’t DJ with those records because they’re too valuable. They still want to DJ with vinyl, but the actual original vinyl, which is probably worth 500 to 600 thousand pounds, somewhere around about there, is too valuable to DJ with. So, these people send it to me to restore and then they’ll do a run of about 100 or 200 and they’ll charge people like forty quid, like DJs all around the world and then, they’re happy to pay that because they can use that as their gigging vinyl, if you know what I mean? I’ve been doing sound restoration for about ten, fifteen years and at the moment I’m just finishing off this track for them and it’s been an amazing journey, I’ve got to hear some incredible records! I get paid for it, it’s quite a good job for me, but I feel as though I’m kind of doing my wee bit to preserve the kind of archives of old songs. So, I’ve been doing that for about fifteen years, Alice and I love it! It’s good, I’m very lucky! Wow, how incredible! So, finally, and then I better let you get back to

your room, as you are heading out on the Essential 80’s Tour later this year, if there was one thing that you could bring back from the ‘80s, what would it be and why? If there was one thing I could bring back from the ‘80s, what would it be and why? Erm, that’s a great question! What was good about the ‘80s? Ooh, you’ve stumped me, Alice! What would I bring back? I’m kind of a futurist, I’m trying to think what I miss from the ‘80s! You have a laugh with your friends and always talk about old TV shows and stuff like that and pre-internet, but I like the internet. Pre-mobile phones ... I like mobile phones. Sat nav ... I like sat navs, so I’m trying to think of all the things that you do now that you didn’t have in the ‘80s. What would I bring back? Erm, Black Forest gateaus! I like a Black Forest gateau! You never see a Black Forest gateau anymore! [Laughs]. For my fiftieth birthday ... I’m 55 now, so my fiftieth birthday, my partner, she’s a good baker, so she said ‘What do you want for your birthday?’ So, I said, ‘Don’t buy me anything, I don’t need anything, but what I would love is a Black Forest gateau! She said, ‘A what?!’ She’d never heard of a Black Forest gateau! She’s about ten years younger than me, but she researched it and it’s obviously a German cake and it’s got a liqueur that’s in it and Alice, she made me the most incredible Black Forest gateau! I posted it up on my Instagram and I got so slagged! I got

slagged with ‘You ‘80s throwback, Black Forest gateau?!’ But I brought it on the road for my brother and my tour manager, we got into the tour bus and I opened up the box and said, ‘Look at this’ and they went, ‘A Black Forest gateau?!’ And they took a slice each and you should have heard the silence on the tour bus, it was brilliant, as they munched their way through this! So, bring back Black Forest gateaus! Absolutely! Thank you so much for such a great interview, it has been so lovely talking to you! We wish you and Pat the best of luck with the Essential 80’s Tour and for the future and we can’t wait to hear the new album! The Essential 80’s Tour featuring Hue and Cry, T’Pau and Paul Young starts on 23rd September at Stockton Globe. For all dates and other Hue and Cry news, visit the links below: hueandcry.co.uk www.facebook.com/hueandcry

The Bootleg

Beatles Getting Back to Business Interview by Martin Hutchinson.

“... this time, we have six costumes. It’s pretty manic changing clothes so quickly!” It is the ambition of most music journalists to interview one of The Beatles, and my personal ambition in this regard is to speak to Paul McCartney. The nearest I’ve managed so far is to speak to Steve White of The Bootleg Beatles, who takes the part of Paul in their amazing shows. The Bootleg Beatles originated in 1980 when the West End musical ‘Beatlemania’ ended it’s run. The four musicians who were playing the parts of the Fab Four decided to go out on tour as a tribute to their musical heroes. It proved to be a good decision because in the years since their formation, The Bootleg Beatles have become the foremost Beatles tribute band in the world. Even Sir George Martin, The Beatles’ legendary producer said that it is “a terrific show”. The show traces the Fab Four’s journey through the Swinging Sixties, with every detail forensically observed from

the costumes and instruments to their flawless renditions of the classic hits from every era of the world’s most famous songbook, this is an incredible experience. But it’s not only their sound that is authentic, they also bear an uncanny resemblance to the Fab Four. The shows in this tour will include all the hits and more, but also feature a special set dedicated to ‘Let it Be’ (1970), celebrating the long-awaited release of the critically acclaimed Peter Jackson Beatles documentary ‘The Beatles: Get Back’. The set will include a stunningly authentic re-enactment of The Beatles’ famous 1969 rooftop concert, plus the iconic anthem ‘The Long and Winding Road’ and the album’s title track. Steve White, who plays Paul in the group is celebrating ten years in the group. “It doesn’t seem like ten years, it’s gone so quick”, he tells me. “I’m the senior member of the band now.”

Like most of other people in the music business, the pandemic hit the band very hard, as Steve explains: “It’s been very difficult, from the beginning of the first lockdown we’ve hardly done a thing. We did three outdoor festivals. It was strange as the audience was quarantined in three metre boxes. We all had to turn our hands to something else because in our industry, if you don’t work, you don’t get paid. I did a year on building sites.” The show is usually in four parts, each covering a different era with the appropriate costumes. “This tour is no exception”, says Steve. “But this time, we have six costumes. It’s pretty manic changing clothes so quickly! The first section will focus on the early ‘Mop tops’ era of 1963–65. And after that we’ll do a ‘Sgt Pepper’ [1967] section. Following that, there will an interval. The second half starts off with 1968 and ‘The White Album’ and the final section will be ‘Let It Be’ both in the studio and recreating the rooftop performance.”

And there will be songs that the band are doing for the first time. “That’s right”, affirms Steve. “I’ve had to learn two songs on a left-hand acoustic guitar, which is a challenge for a right-handed guitar player!” It has to be noted that Steve is right-handed and before he joined The Bootleg Beatles, he was in another Beatles tribute band as ‘John’! “Also, we’re doing ‘Two of Us’ [‘Let It Be’], ‘Another Girl’ [‘Help!’, 1964], and ‘In My Life’ [‘Rubber Soul’, 1965], which we haven’t done for a long time.” This line-up has been together for a few years now: “That’s right, Tyson Kelly [‘John’] joined us in 2018, whilst Gordon Elsmore [‘Ringo’] joined in 2016 and Stephen Hill [‘George’] in 2014.” One of the joys of being a Bootleg Beatle is playing the songs of someone you admire: “Yes, and whenever we do an album in it’s entirety, like we did with ‘A Hard Day’s Night’ [1964] a few years ago, you get to do songs you don’t usually do.”

Sometimes, it can be difficult knowing what songs to put in the set as Steve tells me: “The thing is that some people who come to the shows aren’t necessarily Beatles fans and don’t know all the songs and we have to cater for the bulk of the audience. There are ‘staples’ that we have to do, but we like to throw a few quirky ones in.” And as good as they are, Steve says that they could never match the originals: “No, we could never do that. We are an ‘advertisement’ for The Beatles.”

The Bootleg Beatles’ ‘Getting Back’ tour will be heading out around the country from 23 March to 28 April. For all tour dates and other news visit the links below. bootlegbeatles.com www.facebook.com/ bootlegbeatles

BonhamBullick The Spirit Lives On!

Interview by Alice Jones-Rodgers Photography by David Cunningham (except where stated). 62

“ ... it’s my brother, I’ve got to do him proud, but I’ve no business being in this business if I can’t do it myself ...” Deborah Bonham is a woman on a mission and as she reveals in the following interview, it is one simply just “to make great music”. Bonham has been achieving this goal since releasing her debut album, ‘For You the Moon’, back in 1985, but even back then, it was clear that this ferociously talented singersongwriter with a voice capable of turning self-penned songs and always interesting choices of cover version alike to gold was never going to be one to rely on her brother John’s career and legacy as the drummer of one of the greatest Rock ‘n’ Roll bands to ever grace the planet, Led Zeppelin. Following three further explorations of her seemingly boundless talent in the form of ‘The Old Hyde’ (2004); ‘Duchess’ (2008) and ‘Spirit’ (2014), 22nd April this year sees Bonham

and husband / long-term collaborator Peter Bullick release their first album under the name “Bonham-Bullick”. This Blues, Rock and Soul-inspired eponymous release for Quarto Valley Records finds Bonham and Bullick, along with drummer Richard Newman; bassist Ian Rowley and keyboardist Gerard Louis putting their own masterful stamp on thirteen songs spanning the last seven decades and to promote the album, the band are raring to get out on the road for an extensive tour, which begins on 6th April at Barnoldswick Art Centre in Colne. Firstly, hello Deborah, we hope you are well and thank you for agreeing to our interview, it is lovely to speak to you. Let’s start at the here and now, because 29th April sees the release of ‘Bonham-Bullick’, your collaboration album with your

husband, Belfast-born guitarist Peter Bullick, on Quarto Valley Records. Before we talk more in-depth about the album, how did you and Bullick start making music together?

amazing!’ And then, the bride came over and I said, ‘Great band, who’s the guitarist?’ and she said, ‘Oh, it’s my friend Peter!’ [Laughs]. She introduced me and that was it!

I’m good, thank you! Thank you for calling me and doing the interview! Oh gosh, well, we met [laughs] thirty-one years ago! He was in a band at a wedding and he was a friend of the bride and I was a friend of the groom. And as a wedding present for them, his band played for them at the wedding evening and I was there and I got up and sang with them and that’s how we met. And that was it! And we got together and then, it was pretty quickly that we started being in a band together. And, yeah, it was as quick as that, as simple as that. I sort of stood at the back of the room [at the wedding] and I heard him play guitar and I’m really short-sighted [laughs], so I turned to my friend and I said, ‘Who the heck is that?’ Because I just heard him play one note and he had this incredible feel on the guitar and I just said, ‘Who the heck is that playing guitar? He sounds

Moving onto the ‘Bonham-Bullick’ album, this is a Blues, Rock and Soul inspired thirteen track album consisting of your own interpretations of songs from the last seven decades, so how did you decide which songs you wanted to put your own unique spin on and could you tell us a bit about the recording process of the album? Well, that was quite a difficult process to find the songs, because, you know, when you’re doing these type of songs, when you’re covering people’s songs and some of them are big songs ... you know, there’s an Albert King song, there’s a song that Sam Cooke did ... you’ve got to really dig deep and do your own version but do it proud, you know [laughs]. So, it was difficult finding the songs, because every song that I heard, I kept saying ‘No, no, no,

Photograph by C.Jansen

that song is too precious!’ [Laughs]. So, it was a long process finding the songs and then, once we did find the songs, the recording process, because I’ve never done this before ... we’ve only ever recorded our own songs, so from the minute I kind of write them, I’ve got a pretty good idea about where the song is going to go. But with this, it with this, it was like ‘Okay, let’s take this song and let’s try it like this’. It was a process of like just trying to find out which way it worked the best. So, we would try it one way and I’d be like ‘No. No, that’s not working’ [laughs], so then we’d like try ... Some of them just came together instantly. The Sam Cooke song was a difficult one and I think because I felt it heavy on my shoulders that I’d got to do him proud, because I’m such a huge Sam Cooke fan. So, you know, we went through a few different ways and I just went, ‘No, you know what? Let’s just stop, don’t anybody play’. And Marco Giovino, who was playing the drums and he’s played with everyone [including Robert Plant and John Cale], he’s a top, top drummer, I said ‘Can you just drum

and I’m going to sing? Just do me a straight drum and I’ll sing’ and that’s how it came about. So, yeah, it was very organic, you know, we just let it work it’s way and then when it was right, we went ‘Yeeeaaaah!’ [Laughs]. Organic is always the best way to do it, isn’t it? It is! And it is totally, totally organic, completely! You know, if you try and force these things, they don’t work, you’ve just got to do it and see if it comes together and when it does, it’s brilliant and sometimes it just really doesn’t and we did have about sixteen songs and three of them, we just went ‘No, okay’. We knew it was a good idea to get more songs and then just whittle it down, because you can’t always know if they’re all going to work, you know [laughs]. I really loved your cover version of Sparklehorse’s ‘Painbirds’ (‘Vivadixiesubmarinetransmissionplot’, 1996) on your 2014 album ‘Spirit’, it was amazing!

Aaw, thank you! Yeah, well, you know, I’m a big Mark Linkous fan and I don’t know how it came about that we decided to just to do that song. We’ve always done one cover on each album. I think we did a cover on the ‘Duchess’ [2008] album [The Sutherland Bros. Band’s ‘Chains’, aka ‘I Was in Chains’, ‘The Sutherland Bros. Band’, 1972] and I think we did a cover on ‘The Old Hyde’ [2004] album [‘The Old Hyde’ features Bonham’s covers of Jerry Ragovoy and George David Weiss’ ‘Stay With Me Baby’, originally recorded by Lorraine Ellison for her 1966 album ‘Heart and Soul’; Little Wille John’s 1955 single ‘Need Your Love So Bad’ and Ike and Tina Turner’s ‘Black Coffee’ from the 1972 album ‘Feel Good’], there’s always been one and the Sparklehorse one, it was really left-field, I was listening to it and I thought ‘this would be great!’ And it’s one of our best songs live. When we do it live, it’s just ... oh, I love that song! And that was another one where we did it and, as we were doing it, we put our own take on it, but with total respect to Sparklehorse and

Mark Linkous, you know, and it’s just one of my favourite songs, yeah. That’s great, I’m really pleased you liked that! I did, I really loved it, because I remember buying Sparklehorse’s ‘Vivadixiesubmarinetransmissionplot’ back in 1996 and I always really loved that album and Sparklehorse, so to hear somebody else other than Mark Linkous do that song was really good. Oh, I’m so glad! Yeah, I don’t think anybody else has covered it to be honest and it’s such a great song! The original version is amazing and that album was amazing. So, yeah, it was great and we’ve played it in every live show, we always play that song and we always just let rip on it and it’s brilliant, I love it! ‘Bonham-Bullick’ features quite an array of special guests, including John Baggott (Robert Plant, Portishead, Massive Attack); Paul Brown (The Waterboys, Ann Peebles,

Deborah with Robert Plant

Bobby Rush); John Hogg (Magpie Salute, Moke) and Marco Giovino (Robert Plant, John Cale) alongside drummer Richard Newman; bassist Ian Rowley and keyboardist Gerard Louis from your live band and Paul Rodgers’ Free Spirit. This leads us to ask, when you set out to make a record, how important do you feel that collaboration with a wide and varied range of musicians is to the creative process? I don’t particularly think about it when we start, it just presents itself. You know, when you’re recording, you suddenly go, ‘This needs this’. Like on this record and the previous ones, like on ‘Spirit’, I needed a pedal steel guitar and our band doesn’t have that. So, you just suddenly hear that and we go, ‘You know, it would be great to have a bit of pedal steel on it!’ and so that’s how the collaborations come about, so B.J. Cole is a great friend and one of the greatest pedal steel players. So, that’s how it happens and again, on this record, there was a particular Hammond [organ] sound that I wanted

and our keyboard player, Gerard Lewis is an amazing piano player, Wurlitzer player, Rhodes player and he plays Hammond live for us, but it’s not the great big Hammond with all the draw bars and he will happily say, ‘No Deb’ ... it’s great to work with people who know, who just don’t try and say ‘Yeah, yeah, I can do it’ and Gerard will say to me, ‘No, I’m not comfortable doing that’, so we then called our dear friend Paul Brown, who is just one of the greatest. He plays with The Waterboys and he played with Ann Peebles and Bobby Rush; great, great player. And that’s his thing, he is totally 100% a Hammond player. So, that’s how it happens. You know, you sort of hear parts and it needs that. So, it’s not that we sort of pre-think or I pre-think ‘let’s do this collaboration’, you know. Again, it’s all a bit organic, you know, it all sort of ‘We need that sound, who’s the best at that?’ [Laughs]. And luckily, they’re friends! We’ve got some great friends! Going right back to the beginning, where did your love of music all

began and can you remember realising that you had a gift for singing and making music yourself? Well, it just all began with my brother, you know, being in Led Zeppelin and from when I was six years old, so that was the band that completely ... I saw them when I was about seven years old and that changed my world [laughs], you know. It was that moment where it was like ‘oh my goodness!’ [laughs] and I’ve been trying to do that ever since, you know! [Laughs]. It was just incredible and so, yeah, that was the moment where I knew, it was mindblowing! And then I grew up in so music, you know, my parents used to play a lot of great, great music ... Big Band music and Blues and both my brothers, John was fourteen years older than me and my other brother, twelve years older, so my big brothers were always playing music and so, you know, all through Motown and all of that, the great Soul singers and then it would go into the West Coast music of Joni Mitchell, Crosby, Stills and Nash and Fleetwood Mac and all of that and

so I just grew up with this incredible, eclectic mix of music. As to when I ... I don’t know if I ever realised I had a talent [laughs], I just always wanted to do it, you know! I don’t think there was a pivotal moment where I suddenly went, ‘Yeah, I’ve got a talent I can do this!’ I just had a moment of ‘I want to do this’ and that’s what I’ve been doing. Yeah, I mean, I’ve just always done it, so I don’t think I ever really thought about that, I just knew that was what I wanted to do. When you started out on your long career in music, you probably would have been forgiven for going down the route of building a career on the back of the success of your brother John and Led Zeppelin, but it goes without saying, this was a route which you were very keen to avoid, wasn’t it? It was, yeah. I mean, everybody’s tried it, you know, all the record labels I’ve been with, or people that wanted to sign me up, everybody wanted to do that. I mean, even from people chasing me to

Deborah in 1985

do an album of Led Zeppelin Disco versions [laughs] to people wanting me to do a female-fronted Led Zeppelin cover band and ... oh my goodness! The offers have been out there and it’s just like ‘Nah!’, ‘No, of course not, no!’ I mean, the yardstick for me has always been Led Zeppelin, it’s always been my brother John and the talent, the amazing talent and the amazing music that Led Zeppelin, all four of them, made and to be honest with you, I sort of thought to myself, you know, ‘it’s my brother, I’ve got to do him proud’, but I’ve no business being in this business if I can’t do it myself, you know. I kept the name [Bonham]. You know, when I was very young, when I first started, it was mentioned to me, you know, ‘You’re going to come up against this, do you want to think about your name?’ But the thing is, I’m proud of who I am and I’m incredibly proud of what John did and what John achieved, so that was my goal, you know, to do him proud and, you know, if I can’t sing and I can’t do it on my own ... I know I’m going to get the whole Led Zeppelin thing, I know

that’s going to come and I know people are going to ask me about that, but I thought ‘at the end of the day, I’ve no business being in this business if I can’t do it and stand up on my own two feet’. So, I made that decision to keep my name, but to go my own way, you know, and that’s sort of where I’ve gone. And it’s been a difficult road, you know, there’s no two ways about that, it’s not been easy, but that’s fine, nothing worth doing is ever easy. So, you know, it’s fine, I’m proud of what he did, it’s just that I want to do what I want to do. The goal has never been to be famous, the goal is to make great music. That’s all the goal has been. It’s never been to be rich and famous, it’s to be make great music. That’s all I’ve ever wanted to do and even just trying to do that is [laughs] hard in itself! It’s not an easy thing, but, you know, I’m really proud of what we’ve done and I’m proud of this new album. And it’s the first time I’ve ever produced something totally on my own. And yeah, the Zeppelin thing is there, of course it is, he’s my brother. I can’t ever run and hide. Even if I had

changed my name, it would have come out. So, it was taken on-board, taken on the chin, ‘you are John Bonham’s sister; John Bonham who was the greatest drummer ...’ You know, I was only watching him last night and thinking ‘what a band Led Zeppelin were!’ and, you know, it’s part of me, so that’s it, you know, it’s always there, but it’s not all of me, it’s a part. ‘Bonham-Bullick’ follows ‘For You the Moon’ (1985); ‘The Old Hyde’ (2004); ‘Duchess’ (2008) and ‘Spirit’ (2014) and you were just saying there that this is the first album that you have produced yourself. How did you find this experience? Ooh! [Laughs]. Challenging! Really challenging! But I absolutely loved it! I think Pete [Bullick] would say it’s because I’m a control freak! [Laughs]. I don’t think so, but he might be right, I don’t know! But it was very, very challenging, because the weight is on your shoulders, you can’t look to somebody else, you know, to blame [laughs] if you get it wrong! It was

challenging, but gosh, it was brilliant! It was great to feel that pressure and to have to deal with it and to know that ‘okay, this is down to you!’ And also, it’s not just about producing the music, it’s about handling the people too, it really is a people thing, to get the best out of people and I’ve seen a lot of people do that the wrong way. I’ve worked with various people where I’ve seen them completely demoralise people because they’re not playing it the way that the producer feels that they should and that’s always angered me, you can never, ever ... what you’ve got to do is, you’ve got to let people ... if you believe that person is the right one to play that part, you’ve got to let them shine, you’ve got to let their soul come out and you’ve got to give them the space to do what they do. It’s why you want them on the record [laughs], you know, so let them do what they do! So, it’s finding a middle ground where you can encourage someone to play, rather than to tell them ‘I need you to play it like this’. You know, it wasn’t that type of production! People were bringing their thing to it, they were

bringing their game to it, you know, and I was going ‘Yeah!’, or ‘What about this?’ Yeah, it was a big challenge and one that I absolutely loved doing, at the end of the day. When I was in the middle of it, I was like ‘Okay, this is hard!’ [Laughs], but, now, at the end of it, no, I loved it and going forward, I’m always going to do it because I really, really enjoyed it. So, it is something you will be doing again then? It hasn’t put you off or anything?! No, no, no, I loved it! There’s new things I learned. It’s a learning process, it always is, you know, when you’re trying to make music or you’re trying to speak to people and deal with people who are bringing their thing to your record. Yeah, it was a learning process for me, but it was a great one! And, you know, I was just so lucky to have incredible people playing on that record. Your first demos were recorded at Robert Plant’s house in a nearby

village at the age of seventeen in 1979. You chose to send out the songs anonymously and this resulted in your first record deal with European label Carerre Records in 1985, for whom you recorded your debut album, that year’s ‘For You and the Moon’. How did recording those demos come about and what are your memories of recording those songs at Plant’s house? At his studio, not with him, but he had a small studio in his barn and yeah, [laughs] I phoned him up and said ‘I want to have a go at singing [laughs], can I come over to your place?’ And I had my nephew, Jason [Bonham, John’s son], who was only about fourteen at the time, so we went over there ... you know, me and Jason just went over and Robert had told me that a couple of other local players would be there. You know, there was a guitarist and a bass player and my friend, who is on this album actually, Ian Rowley [bassist] and we just went over and did some demos and it was great, it was brilliant! Yeah, Jason,

John Bonham with a young Jason

good grief, even at his age, fourteen, he was an incredible drummer, [laughs] but he had a bag of crisps and Jelly Tots by the side of the drum kit and he was playing away and when it got recorded, the guy who was recorded us worked for Led Zeppelin ... he’s a guy called Benji Lefevre, he was the engineer and he’s a huge live engineer. He did all the live recordings for Led Zeppelin and he’s gone on to work for all manner of people. Back then, he said, ‘I’ll do it, I’ll record you!’ And it was brilliant, but when we listened back, he would say, ‘’What’s that rustling going on in the background?! I’ve got some noise going on!’ He couldn’t work out what it was, but what it was, Jason was playing drums with one hand and nobody noticed [laughs] because he was as good with one hand as most drummers are with two! So, he was playing with one hand and eating his crisps with the other hand [laughs], so we had this rustling going on from the crisp packet! Oh God, it was very funny! [Laughs]. So, yeah, that was the first demos. You know, it was a process. I looked at Robert and I said,

‘Well, do you think I can sing?’ [Laughs]. Poor Robert, he was looking at me, going ‘Well, of course I think you can sing! You know, you’ve got to progress it, you’ve got to work at it! It’s not that easy, you can’t just make a demo and think that’s it!’ I was like, ‘Oh, okay, so have I got to do some more then?’ And he was like, ‘Oh yeah! You need to get out on the road and go and show them your wares! Get out on the stage girl and, you know, hone your craft a bit!’ So, that’s what happened and we formed bands and went out and played gigs and he was so right! You know, I was very naive back then, because all I’d ever known was Led Zeppelin, so I thought ‘okay, you do a recording, it gets released and it goes to number one!’ [Laughs]. No, it doesn’t work like that! It didn’t work like that for Led Zeppelin either, they’d all been, you know, playing and doing their thing before Led Zeppelin existed. You have to go out there and hone your craft and it’s the live work that does it. It’s the live work for me that really is the key. It was just so hard during lockdown. Two years of not getting out

Deborah and mum Joan collect the Tommy Vance Inspiration Award for John at the Classic Rock Awards, 2009

there and playing! 2018 saw you take part in the Stars Align Tour over in the US with former Free frontman Paul Rodgers; Jeff Beck and Heart’s Ann Wilson. Was that the last tour you did before lockdown? No, we went back over there in 2019 and we played the East Coast, which was great. We played at The Cutting Room [New York City] and it’s such an iconic, cool place and we played at Daryl Hall’s ... you know, from Hall & Oates ... one of my all-time favourite singers, he has a place called Daryl’s House and it’s a fantastic place, up in Woodstock, and we went and played that and that was absolutely fantastic as well! So, yeah, we did that in 2019 and that was the last tour and we were about to go back to America in May 2020, because the album was coming out then, but of course the pandemic happened and so, there were a lot of my friends, we all had tours booked for America and it just all went out the window and that was it. We were all

on the phone to each other going ‘What’s happened?!’ But, hey, that’s what happened and now we’re coming out of it and trying to rebuild it back, you know. But the Stars Align Tour, that was incredible. We did the whole of America then and it was just phenomenal! Huge amphitheatres and yeah, it was incredible. Going to places I’ve never been to ... I mean, we’ve toured America many, many times, but this was a massive tour for us, it was fantastic. That was an amazing line-up, with yourselves, Paul Rodgers, Jeff Beck and Ann Wilson! Oh yeah, we had to pinch ourselves, you know, when we were on stage! We were like ‘Wow! Okay, that’s Jeff Beck’s guitar!’ You know, it was real pinch time, it was fantastic! Yeah, it was quite wonderful. Finally, returning to the here and now, starting on the 6th April at Barnoldswick Art Centre in Colne, you have quite a few tour dates

coming up in support of the ‘Bonham-Bullick’ album, so what can we expect from these shows and what aspects of this tour are you most looking forward to? That’s a great question! In fact, they’ve all been great questions, but that’s a great question! Well, we’re putting the new songs into the show, so that’s the difference. We’re still going to play all the old favourites and, of course, Sparklehorse [‘Painbirds’]! [Laughs]. But yeah, we are adding new songs and what I noticed, because we’ve done two shows this year so far, in January, and we played the Great British Blues Festival up in Skegness and then we did Giants of Rock in Minehead and we were almost like horses coming out of the starting gates! We hadn’t played for two years and it’s just like ‘Come on!’ [Laughs]. We’re carrying the baton, sort of going out there, going ‘Come on!’ So, yeah, it really is exciting! Because we haven’t played for so long, we’re so fresh to it and it’s exciting again! It’s like starting again! I mean, it always been exciting and it’s always great, every show is, but we have an added little thing going on now because we haven’t played for so long because of the pandemic. Because of two years of not playing, there’s that pent-up two years of not playing and it’s all coming out now! Yeah, at the last show, I was like ‘Good grief!’, you know [laughs], it was really, really exciting! We were only talking about it yesterday that we can’t wait, you know,

to get back in the tour bus and get back to doing what we do. So, yeah, I think it’s going to be really very exciting! Yeah, it is going to be great! To be honest, I could talk to you all day, but I better let you go! Thank you for a wonderful interview, it has been lovely to speak to you. We wish you all the best for ‘Bonham-Bullick’, the upcoming tour and for the future. Aaw, bless you Alice, thank you! It was a pleasure! It was lovely talking to you and thank you for the fantastic questions and for your time also. Come and see us if you can and I’ll dedicate ‘Painbirds’ to you! ‘Bonham-Bullick’ is released on 22nd April on Quarto Valley Records. For all upcoming tour dates and other Bonham-Bullick news, visit the links below: deborahbonham.com www.facebook.com/ DeborahBonhamOfficial

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“... we would say, say, ‘Well Well,, we we’’re appearing on ‘Top of the Pops’’, Pops’’, which is always a great answer to give a soldier!” soldier!” This month sees Derry’s legendary Pop-Punk outfit The Undertones head out on a nineteen-date tour in support of ‘Dig What You Need’, a thirteen-track compilation bringing together the band’s finest moments from their reformation in 1999 to present day. Original vocalist Feargal Sharkey may have long since gone in search of “a good heart”, but with this storming retrospective, rhythm guitarist and vocalist John O’Neill; lead guitarist, keyboardist and backing vocalist Damian O’Neill; bassist Michael “Mickey” Bradley and drummer Billy Doherty along with “new” vocalist Paul McLoone have proven that not even the loss of a key member could not diminish the appeal of Northern Ireland’s finest. It has been an incredible forty-eight years since the five original members

of The Undertones first started jamming in a garden shed and this September marks the forty-forth anniversary of the release of the ‘Teenage Kicks EP’ on the Good Vibrations label, the title track of which, of course, quickly became the favourite song of one Mr. John Peel. With the band having been picked up by Sire Records after label supremo Seymour Stein reportedly heard Peel enthusing about ‘Teenage Kicks’ over his car radio, the song was re-released as a single in its own right just a month later, reaching number 31 on the UK singles chart, kickstarting a five year career which saw The Undertones appear on ‘Top of the Pops’ thirteen times. However, despite such huge chart success, the band shunned the bright lights of London and remained in Derry all the way through that first run, which only added to their charm.

The Undertones in 1977

A few weeks ago, I rang Bradley, the co-writer of The Undertones biggest single success, 1980’s ‘My Perfect Cousin’ (UK#9, ‘Hypnotised’) no less, at home for a chat. As well as still regularly touring with The Undertones, the ever-talkative and endlessly charismatic bassist can also be heard spinning his favourite records on BBC Ulster every Friday night and in 2016, he wrote about his experiences as one-fifth of a band who, to this very day, remain one of the most enthralling draws on the Punk circuit in one of the greatest autobiographies ever penned, ‘Teenage Kicks: My Life As an Undertone’. In the following interview, as well as enlightening us as to just what that initial five years of the band was like for the Derry boys, to celebrate the release of ‘Dig What You Need’ and the upcoming tour, Bradley also discusses how middle-age kicks compare to “teenage kicks” and why, nearly half a century after their formation, The Undertones are still “hard to beat”.

Firstly, hello Mickey and thank you for agreeing to our interview, it is lovely to speak to you. It is a forty-eight years since the groundwork was laid for what would evolve into The Undertones, so could we start we start by going right back to the beginning and asking how you and the other four original members, vocalist Feargal Sharkey; rhythm guitarist and vocalist John O’Neill; lead guitarist, keyboardist and backing vocalist Damian O’Neill and drummer Billy Doherty first came together to start playing music? Well, it was a combination of school friends and family. I was at school with a fella called Vincent O’Neill [brother of John and Damian] and around about the age of fifteen, you start hanging around with different people, so I started hanging around with him. I started going around to his house to listen to records and down there, he told me that he was in a band with his brother [John] and their friends. In fact, we never called it ‘a band’ then, we called it ‘a group’. People used to

talk about it and they said ‘It’s a group’, you know? So, I started hanging around with them and then, that Summer, Summer 1974, there we were, away and camping somewhere and he said to me, ‘Do you want to join the group?’ And I said ‘Yeah, okay!’ And that was it, you know. So, that was me and Billy [Doherty] and John and Vincent as it was then, the four of us and we kind of attempted to play guitars. We could play chords. Billy always wanted to be the drummer, so we scraped up some money and we bought various microphones and amps, you know, and Billy bought bongos, a wee pair of bongos. So, we were struggling along for about another year and then Billy said, ‘Listen, we need a singer’. And up until this stage, Alice, we hadn’t played anywhere, we played in O’Neills’ front room trying to learn songs. He said, ‘We need a singer’, so Billy, who had just gone into his fifth year at school, you know, he said, ‘Listen, there’s a fella in my class and he’s a great singer, Feargal Sharkey’. And I had heard of Feargal, because Feargal was known as a boy soprano

in Derry. There was a big Irish music scene in Derry and he was a regular winner at all these competitions that he went and entered as well. Oh aye, he was a proper singer! So, he got Feargal to come along and that kind of spirited us into attempting to take it serious and we got a loan from Provident. We called it the Provident cheque, which was a very high interest loan. We got that and we went to a shop in Donegal, just over the border, and we came back with a drum kit for Billy, a bass guitar and a bass amp for me and an amplifier for John and a microphone for Feargal [laughs]. So, we then struggled and started to learn how to play songs and then, about four or five months later, my friend Vincent, he was told to leave the band by his mother because he had O’Levels coming up, so we got his younger brother, Damian, instead. So, that was the five of us. So, you’re talking 1976 and in March 1976, we did a show in a school concert playing Rolling Stones songs and songs by Fleetwood Mac and Cream and we did six songs at this concert and it was good! And we just kept going and kept

going and two years later, we made a record, ‘Teenage Kicks’. By March 1976, you were playing gigs performing cover versions and were briefly known as both The Hot Rods and Little Feat (both names were given to the band by Sharkey), before Doherty proposed the name The Undertones. In late-’76, Punk arrived and you changed tact musically and began writing and performing your own songs. Can you remember a particular moment when you and the other members of the band decided to take the Punk route and write your own material or was it more just a natural progression? Yeah, we had a place we used to practice in, like a sort of a shed type place, you know, and there was something about and we started writing short songs like the Ramones. When I say ‘we’, it was John that was writing them and, you know, we just played them like Ramones songs, which, if you’ve ever played in a band, it’s quite

easy and very satisfying, you know, if you have a fast drummer and everyone else just plays fast chords and the bass is very simple and, you know, the tunes are usually simple as well. So yeah, I do remember ... whenever John brought some songs along and we all just played them and even doing cover versions of old songs, but doing them like the Ramones, I remember thinking ‘this is great!’ And no one else was doing that in Derry at the time, you know. And this was like early 1977, late-’76 and we were playing like The Stooges and New York Dolls, and it was just a great feeling being able to do that. So yeah, I do remember it well! A key attribute of The Undertones has always been a strong Pop songwriting sensibility within that Punk sound. Do you perhaps feel that starting out playing cover versions of songs by ‘60s bands such as The Beatles and the Small Faces might have given you a good grounding in how to construct songs that, whilst fitting into the Punk sound, also had a strong Pop appeal?

Yeah! Oh, it did! More so, it helped us to keep things short as well. Even the subject matter ... I said John wrote most of the songs, you know, and later on, some of the others did it as well, but John always says he was inspired to write songs, lyrically, like the Brill Building songs, you know, like the girl groups, The Sherelles and so on, that kind of thing, you know. Even ‘Teenage Kicks’, a girl walking down the street, that’s just from so many other songs. So, definitely, that inspired us and I think that’s a great thing too, because it’s [the ‘60s] still one of my favourite eras in music, you know. Definitely! Well, writing a Pop song is such an art, isn’t it? To be able to fit everything into three, or even two-and-a-half minutes, is incredible! Yeah! But sometimes, whenever I was writing songs, I would think ‘right, that’s it done’ and then you play it and it’s only a minute-and-a-half long, you know! ‘Oh! So, let’s do the chorus again and maybe do a wee instrumental

bit and then maybe repeat the first verse’ and you get it up to about two-and-a-half minutes! It is, to get things in and neat and wrapped up within two-and-a-half to three minutes is definitely a skill. But, you know, people have been doing it for many years and so we can all learn from all the people. Your big break came when you sent John Peel a copy of a demo tape recorded at Magee University in March 1978, requesting that he played the songs on his BBC Radio 1 show. Peel replied and offered to pay for a recording session in Belfast. The four song ‘Teenage Kicks’ EP, produced by Davy Shannon, was recorded at Wizard Studios in Belfast on 15th June of that year on a budget of just £200 and released on the Good Vibrations record label. What are your memories of recording that first demo and writing to Peel in those early days? Yeah, yeah, yeah, that’s right! And, do you know what? At the time, I

remember doing that [recording the demo] and we didn’t like it! Because it was the first time we’d ever heard ourselves, you know. I remember, at the time, thinking I didn’t like it and years later, I heard it again and it basically just sounded like the first LP [‘The Undertones’, 1979]. The recording wouldn’t have been as good, but the songs were all there, you know and Feargal’s singing was all there. So, we sent that to him [Peel]and he ... well, no, we sent it off to record companies and they weren’t interested at all, you know. Stiff [Records] and Radar Records, they weren’t interested. So, he [Peel] got the tape, I think, just before he heard the record [‘Teenage Kicks’], around about the same time, you know, but he then paid for us to do a session for his show, but it wasn’t great. It was [laughs] very, very short songs and the sound wasn’t great, you know. But, yeah, he was very encouraging and, you know, he didn’t have to be, because like, there were a hundred bands looking for his attention, but there was something about us that he cottoned onto and

thought ‘Oh!’ Because we used to ring him and we used to put in requests for his show and say ‘Could you play a record for, you know, Eddie McGinley’ and he would do it and we would tape the show and we would play the recording of his show on the speakers whenever we were playing in The Casbah, so it was circular. Yeah, it was a great time! As you were saying earlier, the title track of the ‘Teenage Kicks’ EP was the song that, to coin a phrase, kickstarted The Undertones career and the song that Peel instantly loved so much that he played it twice in a row (the first time this had ever been done on BBC radio). After you signed to Sire Records on 2nd October 1978, ‘Teenage Kicks’ was of course released as a single in its own right, reaching number 31 on the UK singles chart just two weeks later. Despite Top of the Pops calling and all the other things that come with having chart success that continued through four albums (‘The Undertones’, 1979, UK#13;

‘Hypnotised’, 1980, UK#6; ‘Positive Touch’, 1981, UK#17 and ‘The Sin of Pride’, 1983, UK#46) and six UK top forty hits: the aforementioned ‘Teenage Kicks’; ‘Jimmy Jimmy’ (1979, UK#16, ‘The Undertones’); ‘Here Comes the Summer’ (1979, UK#34, ‘The Undertones’); ‘You’ve Got My Number (Why Don’t You Use It!)’ (1979, UK#32); ‘My Perfect Cousin’ (1980, UK#9, ‘Hypnotised’); ‘Wednesday Week’ (1980, UK#11, ‘Hypnotised’) and ‘It’s Going to Happen!’ (1981, UK#18, ‘Positive Touch’), you actually remained based in Derry right through that first run of The Undertones, didn’t you? Yeah, yeah, we did, we lived in Derry. That was a couple of practical things. [Laughs] We were still living with our parents, you know, which is always a great thing! We’d started going out with some girls in Derry as well, so we had girlfriends in Derry, some of us. But also, after a while, we realised that it’s actually a good thing that you’re back in Derry and you’re not in London with people saying ‘Oh, you’re

brilliant!’ It kept you grounded and so on, you know, so that was good and also, it meant for John anyway, and for the rest of us, that we were writing songs. You were able to go home and just think about writing songs and that was it. And also, because you were getting a wage, you were getting £30 a week from the band, you didn’t have to work! Even better! You were in Derry and you could get up, take a wee walk down, look through record shops, you know, go back home, get your tea, and it was great! [Laughs]. There’s always something to be said for that, not having to work! Definitely! Because I always got the feeling that it would have been such a different band if you had actually moved away from Derry. Yeah, that’s a good point! I think it would have been, yes. It would have been maybe better, or worse, I don’t know. Derry was very important to us and we were always talking about it and suppose people were always asking about it because of the situation in

Derry at that time. We liked the fact that we managed to have hit records and also still live in Derry and, you know, not be part of any kind of scene. I always remember, in 1980, we released a single called ‘Wednesday Week’ [UK#11, ‘Hypnotised’] and it got to number eleven, I think. We didn’t realise that it would be as successful as that, but at that stage, ‘Top of the Pops’ was off because of some kind of technician strike, so there was no TV. But I remember we used to play indoor football on some mornings down in a local sports hall and I remember coming back from that, coming back up to the house and my younger sister, whenever I went in, she would say ‘’Wednesday Week’ is number eleven!’ and I would say, ‘Oh, that’s great!’ And that’s how you found out your record was in the charts back then. You didn’t get a phone call from the record company or anything! Well, we didn’t have a phone to be honest with you! So, I’ll always remember that and I think that’s a good thing to be able to do, you know, so you’re not kind of just in the music business, but

you’re still a part of it. Well, it must be more fun doing it that way! Oh aye, absolutely! Aye, oh, it was great and playing in local places. We used to play in a wee art gallery in Derry at that stage as well and that was fantastic, along with five or six other bands that were starting up that year [1979]. I think they were inspired by us, just teenagers, children really. So, it was a good scene to be in, in Derry in 1979. Along with Damian O’Neill, you co-wrote The Undertones’ biggest UK top 40 singles success, ‘My Perfect Cousin’, the first release from 1980’s ‘Hypnotised’, which reached number 9. Is it true that the protagonist of ‘My Perfect Cousin’, Kevin, is a real person and what are your memories of writing that song? Oh yes, thank you for mentioning that! [Laughs]. It kind of is a real person, although, like most songs, you would

kind of change a lot of things. It might be inspired by somebody ... but there is a real Kevin, it’s John and Damian’s cousin, yeah. And, you know, he was a very smart young man and he did very well and so on, but, you know, there was nothing really that I could say that he was like this or that that correlates to the song, but the song, ‘I’ve got a cousin called Kevin, He’s sure to go to heaven’, I think that everyone can admit to being compared to your cousins! In my house, I remember that my mother would have been with her sisters and would have said about our cousins who helped clean the house and were very good and all this, you know, and you kind of go, ‘FFFFF!’, grumbling and that! So, those things kind of came together and Damian and I just basically made up this story, you know. He [Kevin] never had a synthesizer and he didn’t have a fur-lined sheepskin jacket and I don’t think he even played subbuteo! [Laughs]. We completely made all that up! The funny thing is, he became quite a successful solicitor, a lawyer, you know, and I think, on occasion,

people would mention, ‘Oh yeah, ‘My Perfect Cousin’, The Undertones!’ I don’t think he was amused, but I think after a while, he saw the funny side of it, you know! I’m so proud [of ‘My Perfect Cousin’] and I always enjoy playing it, because I always think ‘this a great song!’ [Laughs]. That first run of The Undertones came to an end in July 1983 following the release of your fourth album ‘The Sin of Pride’ in April of the same year, which featured the singles ‘The Love Parade’ (UK#97); ‘Got to Have You Back’ (UK#82) and ‘Chain of Love’, and fulfilling tour commitments. How much of the decision to end The Undertones at that point was perhaps to do with ‘Sin of Pride’ and its single releases not performing as well as previous releases and was it a mutual decision between the five of you? It kind of was. I remember in the couple of months before that, before we made that decision, as you say, the records weren’t selling as much and I

remember Damian saying to me, ‘What are you going to do after the band breaks up?’ You know, because we were talking in that kind of way. But we weren’t talking officially, we were talking between ourselves. But then, we were in Sweden, we were doing a short European tour and we were getting photographs taken and Feargal said, ‘Right, I want to leave the band, I’m going to stop it now’ and the rest of us kind of just went ‘YESSSSS!’ Relief! I was just glad that he was the one who decided ‘Right, I’m going to stop this now’, because he was right, you know. I think the reason he wanted to stop was that we weren’t selling any records and he thought he could do better and as I’ve often said, he was right! [Laughs]. He had much bigger [solo] hit records than The Undertones ever had, so he was completely justified and it was just a great break. At the time, you kind of go ‘Is that it now?’, but it was coming to an end anyway, you know. So it was a relief more than anything?

11th March sees you release ‘Dig What You Need’ on Damian O’Neill’s Dimple Discs label. This is a best of compilation covering the second act of The Undertones story from your reformation in 1999 to present day. Incredibly, you have actually now been back together, minus Sharkey but with ‘new’ vocalist Paul McLoone, nearly three times as long as you were together the first time around, but how did you come to reform? Oh, absolutely! Well, me and Billy, the drummer, used to be asked on occasion by a band called The Saw Doctors, who were from Galway ... I didn’t realise until, you know, I heard it that they were fans of the bands, so they would ask Billy and myself to go along and play the drums and bass at some of their shows in Galway and Dublin and in Glasgow and they were big, big concerts, you know and we used to go along because, well, we weren’t doing anything else and it’s a bit of fun and we could hang around with these great guys. So, we would go on and they

would do maybe ‘Teenage Kicks’ ... they would always do ‘Teenage Kicks’ and sometimes do ‘Get Over You’ [The Undertones’ second single, released in 1979, reaching number 57] or something and we would play along with it, so we just enjoyed it. And then one year, they [The Saw Doctors] were doing The Galway Arts Festival and That Petrol Emotion [John and Damian O’Neill’s post-Undertones band, which ran from 1984 to 1994] had broken up by 1999 and they asked Billy, ‘Do you think John or Damian would be interested in coming along?’ And Billy asked and John said, ‘Yeah, why not!’ and Damian said, ‘Yeah!’ So, it turned out that the four of us went down to Galway and we played on the same stage as The Saw Doctors and we did, yeah, a couple of songs. But, when we knew we were doing that, we decided to learn some of the older songs and the four of us, then, we played a smaller show in a wee hotel in Galway and one of the singers, one of the fellas in the band, came along to sing with us, but the rest of the times we went, we asked other people in the audience, there was

maybe about sixty, seventy people there, ‘Does anybody know any Undertones songs?’ And a couple of guys came up and sang songs [laughs]. So, obviously, we decided ‘Right, are we going to do this anymore?’ and we said, ‘Yeah, this is good!’ and we thought ‘well, we need a singer’, so three of us, John, Billy and myself, we individually came up with the idea of asking Paul McLoone, because we knew him and I knew Paul through radio and Billy was in a band with him. So, we decided, ‘Yeah, let’s ask Paul’ and we asked him and he said ‘Aye’ and we got together and we started practicing. And, in the meantime, we’d been asked to officially open a place called The Nerve Centre in Derry, which is like an arts performance kind of thing for younger people. So, we did that and it was great! And, you know, it could have been horrible! But, you know, it was just really good and we asked some people that we trusted, ‘Was that any good?’ and they said, ‘Yeah, it was!’ So, we decided to kind of see if anybody would be interested in us, so we got a couple of offers for

the next year and they were great too! And ever since then, it’s just on a year by year basis. There’s no great plan, you know, there’s no sitting down and working out what we’re going to be doing in a year’s time because, you know, obviously now, you know that you can’t plan things! But we were never planners anyway! So, that’s how it came about and it’s very much a part time thing and it’s better for that, you know. Well, for me, it’s better for that.

Obviously, the line-up of the band has changed slightly, although we must say that retaining four members of an original line-up that dates back nearly half a century is quite incredible, particularly in comparison to many other bands from the Punk era. How have you found the experience of being a member of The Undertones this time around in comparison to the first time around?

Yes, because you have a radio show as well, don’t you?

It feels almost the same, you know, because even the first time around, the four of us, myself and Damian and Billy and John, we were there and we kind of got Feargal, so we were closer than Feargal would have been to the rest of us. You know, we all got on great, but, you know, it’s the same kind of four friends, and brothers of course, from that time, so ... occasionally, when Billy hasn’t been well, we’ve had a different drummer and that’s okay, but it’s just not the same and I always think that if it wasn’t the four of us, and now the five of us with Paul, and if John or Damian or Billy or myself decided not

Yes, I have a show on BBC Radio Ulster and I enjoy doing that as well. You know, I play old records, play new records, try and be vaguely entertaining between records! And, yeah, so that’s good! I’ve been doing it for a long time now, since about 1986, and up until last Christmas, I was a producer at the station too. It’s a day job, you know. You can listen in on BBC Sounds. Do that and that means I have another listener! [Laughs]. Friday night at half seven!

to do it, that would be the end of it, you know. But it’s so lacking in any pressure. You know, whenever we get to get together again, we almost make the same jokes, we have the same references, [laughs] we all behave exactly the same way, you know, and sometimes we say things and start annoying each other, but, you know, we’re now old enough to realise that’s what friends do. I always remember, my mother used to say, ‘Don’t be living in each other’s pockets’, which is what we used to do back in the early days whenever we were doing like six week tours. We were all very penned together and after a while, that got to you a bit, but now, we only do about three or four shows and then we take a break and we all go home, basically and we get back together the next week and do another three or four shows. So, it’s a good pace for us because we don’t spend too much time in each other’s pockets, as my mother would say! And there’s no big career plan, so it’s great! I just feel sorry for Billy because drums are really hard. Drums take a lot out of you, whereas the bass, the bass is

nothing, bass is so easy! [Laughs]. Drums, that’s real work! That’s hitting things for like an hour and a half, whereas all I do is play the bass and think about what I’m going to eat afterwards! Whether there’s going to be a pizza place open! [Laughs]. Since your reformation, you have released two albums of new material, ‘Get What You Need’ (2003) and ‘Dig Yourself Deep’ (2007). Are you planning any more new albums at some point? That’s a long time ago! [Laughs]. We’ve stopped thinking about it [making new music]. Yeah, I think if something comes up, it’ll come up, but at the moment, well, we’ve nothing planned, but every so often, I get a notion that ‘come on, this is ridiculous, I really should start trying to write a couple of songs, even if they’re no good!’ So, every so often, usually every new year, I have a resolution, so I’m still working on this year’s resolution! I’d like to, because, you know, there’s nothing wrong with it

and you might come up with something good, but at the same time, you know, we’ve got a good number of great songs and we’re not fed up playing them and people aren’t fed up of hearing them, so I don’t know!

Omnibus Press in 2016. Having had that experience of being able to look back over the band’s career and your life, what would you consider to be your proudest achievement as a member?

You are about to head out on a nine-date UK tour in March and April with support from Hugh Cornwell and Neville Staple (at The Leadmill in Sheffield on 10th March only), before heading over to Europe for ten further dates in Germany, Sweden and Denmark. How do you find that the Undertones material from this phase of your career sits alongside what would be considered the ‘classic material’ in a live setting?

Hhhhmmmm, that’s a good question! Being on ‘Top of the Pops’ and being from Derry at the same time. Being on ‘Top of the Pops’, while still playing in a pub in Derry. Whenever we played ‘Teenage Kicks’ on ‘Top of the Pops’, the next day, we came back to Derry and we played in a pub and that was great! So, yeah, making it on ‘Top of the Pops’ and making an appearance on ‘Top of the Pops’ without moving to London, without living in London.

Yeah! Some of them, obviously there are songs that work really well live and we enjoy playing them and so on. We didn’t change dramatically, you know, so it works well.

That is brilliant, I love that answer! Because you did ‘Top of the Pops’ quite a few times, didn’t you?

Finally, your autobiography, ‘Teenage Kicks: My Life As an Undertone’, was published by

I think about twelve or thirteen times, yep! And every time, we would just come over from Derry! [Laughs]. Back in those days, we would drive up to ... the airport was at Antram, which is

about twenty miles outside Belfast and there was always an army checkpoint on the way to the airport, so they would stop you. We used to get taxis up and they would stop you and you would have to fill out forms and they would say, ‘What’s the purpose of your visit?’ and all this and we would say, ‘Well, we’re appearing on ‘Top of the Pops’, which is always a great answer to give to a soldier! ‘Where are you going?’’ ‘We’re going to London’; ‘Why are you going to London?’; ‘We’re appearing on ‘Top of the Pops’ and they just look at you and go, ‘Right, I’ll let you go’ [laughs]. That’s a good story, isn’t it?! Thank you so incredibly much for such a great interview, it has been

such a pleasure talking to you! We wish you all the best with the upcoming tour and for the future. You’re very welcome! Alright Alice, thank you very much and I hope you get a good article out of it. ‘Get What You Need’ is out now on Dimple Discs, whilst the band are currently touring the UK with a European tour to follow. For all dates and other Undertones news, visit the links below: www.theundertones.com www.facebook.com/ OfficialTheUndertones

51st State That’s What It’s About!

Paul Foden collars Exeter’s 51st State for a bit of a natter by the bins ... classy! 92

“... we’ve come back refreshed, with a different mindset.” The first interview that I did for Eighth Day was with Plymouth’s Butt Plug Babies in 2019, for their self-published album ‘Going in Dry’ release gig, which was held beside these very same council skips, close by tonight’s venue, Plymouth’s The Nowhere Inn (Go Nowhere - Be Nobody!) That was just a couple of months after I first saw 51st State play there, when Exeter cousins Justin Woods on drums and vocals and Noah Burton on bass and vocals made such a driven, tight as fuck noise, played with such élan and punch that it still resonates with me today and I think very fondly of that gig. So, I was going to name this article “Where’ve You Bin?”, or “Skip to the Punch”, or some other piss-poor pun-based nonsense, which would be very typical of me, yeah? Rubbish! Anyway, this long-awaited return to the venue, on Saturday 29th January, more than lived up to expectations, preceded by fellow Exeter band The Maisonettes and SCVMFVZZ, a new local band of two, whose drummer,

Billi, is the bassist of the aforementioned Butt Plug Babies, this being their debut gig. There! The square is circled! So, both support bands fucking smashed it good and proper, The Maisonettes playing a super-tight set, while SCVMFVZZ dropped in a very good though nervy performance, setting us up nicely for 51st State. But, before all that, it was interview time! So, this is your first gig back at the Nowhere since before COVID? Justin: Yes, and it’s the first time since these guys have owned it, which is pretty cool. Noah: It’s a good little place; very homely. Justin: Matt, who runs it, saw us at The Pit and Pendulum [Plymouth] as part of Plymouth Punx Picnic, then he asked us if we could play the Nowhere, but we were busy for the next few weeks after and we never play the same place too often. Noah set this one up.

Noah: It is a bit like coming home for us. Is your songwriting a combined effort? Noah: It’s a combination of different songs, different things, in terms of some songs are just one person, but we collaborate on ideas and see how it goes. Justin: Yes, and we did a couple of new ones recently, with music videos, for which Noah had really good ideas. It was just in his head and he kind of went ‘This is a great idea for this song’. We made it to work around, and it came out amazingly. Noah: I saw Justin on Christmas Day and had this one called ‘Ignorance is Risk’, and I had it figured out. So, if we come out with good lyrics, we send each other photos of them and knock them around, and they come out quite nicely. We played another gig in Bristol on Thursday night, and we’re in a practice [session] the day before, trying

to play it through the whole way. We had three or four minutes left in the practice room and we played it right, just that once in those four minutes, and we were happy with that. Justin: It’s funny, because we had started playing it, and it was pretty simple, then over the course of us discussing the structures, it just became hideously complicated, but I think it benefited from that. Noah: Yes, they can be complicated for a little while then, when you’ve played them a few times, they become less complicated, and you just go with that. Justin: It’s part of being original, I think, because if you’re playing at the edge of your abilities, and you’re pushing yourself, then you come up with something better. But you also need to know where to say “That’s not working” and try something less complicated, perhaps? Justin: Yes, the original thing I started

51st State in 2010

playing on the drums was a little shuffle kind of thing, whereas the actual song was coming back from a million miles from that. But it’s great, in the end, because we both have creative input. Noah: Yes, I mean, if it’s a band there’s multiple people, so the best thing to do is combine your efforts. Yes, in most bands, it’s usually a nucleus of two people that write all the songs, anyway, although sometimes other members pitch in with something they think is a bit good.

Well, you’ve been doing it now for how long? Noah: Oh, a long time. Because we’re cousins, when we were kids we used to have bands that we’d play in, then we kind of made this band about 2007-8, and we’ve been doing it [ever since]. Occasionally, we’ll play some songs from then, as a trip down memory lane. Justin: We played one at practice last night and thought “Actually, this is a really, really good song”, but maybe some of their lyrics need a bit of updating now.

Noah: We probably balance each other out, where we go so far then communicate a bit.

You played a gig on Thursday, I believe. Where was this and how did it go down?

Justin: You have to make space for the other person to do their thing and, when you only have two instruments, you want to play them as big and as interesting as you can to keep the overall sound full. You play it as a band, not as just somebody that plays one instrument.

Noah: It was at The Exchange in Bristol. There’s a larger venue upstairs, and the smaller basement downstairs. Justin: It’s quite cool. I think Dean, from Zero, started putting on a Thursday night thing called Shitty Futures Promotions, and it’s really

good because downstairs is sixty people capacity. Noah: So, it was pretty full on Thursday. Justin: And everybody that was there wanted to be there, because of COVID, and all that business, so the people that come actually want to see that band. Noah: Because there were quite a few bands that had to drop out because of the COVIS [sic*] on the day, two other bands played; a growing band called People Eater, I think it was their first gig, and System of Slaves, which were Thrash, heavy. That was cool. They were on because of bands dropping out and giving them places. Justin: It’s almost the modern way now, where you’ve got the gig, and then the gig evolves, as long as you’re up with the ethos and the promotion of that band. Yes, you need something in common with the bands, not necessarily just

from a musical point of view. Noah: Yes, you need other things in common than music, maybe it’s sense of humour, where you can bounce off each other. Justin: We’ve been together to gigs, or played gigs, where the whole venue has been all Grindcore bands, which can be heavy, a whole night of it, four hours, or whatever. Noah: Yes, you need to mix things up a little bit or run the risk of it becoming samey. Justin: For illustration, Dean was saying that one of the bands that he was looking to book, to fill the slot, was a seven-piece Ska band, but he decided that it would be a bit way-off for the gig. Noah: It’s great to be out and about now. Justin: Tonight will be great because we have SCVMFVZZ and it’s their first

gig, and we know Billi from Butt Plug Babies. Noah: And The Maisonettes; they’re an Exeter band, and I think we’ve played a gig with them before, as we’re both Exeter bands. Justin: They’re kind of friends with The Cavern, and they’ve definitely done DJ sets there after gigs. A little while ago, when we were doing music videos, they were going to do a livestream gig with The Maisonettes, but they only had one song written at the time. With us all going through the lockdowns, inhibiting everything, not being able to get out and see or play something like this, now we’re getting back towards that vibrant and creative scene, it’s great to have it all back, even tentatively. Justin: It’s been a bit of a reset button. Where you said we met, at a Nowhere gig a few years ago, now that’s all a bit of a blur, looking back.

When a gig happens now, I’m really excited for it because it still feels unusual and a bit fresh. Noah: The COVIS gave us an enforced break and we’ve come back refreshed, with a different mindset. Justin: In the time that COVID and Lockdown posed us, we’ve explored different ways of making music, different approaches, because whereas before we were gigging all the time, you didn’t really have time to explore different ideas quite so much. Noah: It allowed us to make videos, which was really good fun, because we wouldn’t have spent that time doing them. Justin: And that’s really worthwhile as we had a great time filming it with friends, whereas when you’re in the hubbub of daily life before, we just wouldn’t have had the thought to go and do that. Noah: You’ve got a set amount of

energy, so it was nice to do some videos and spend the energy on that. We had two groups of people doing the videos. It was a fun way to link up with people. It’s networking fun time! Justin: That’s right. It gets you out of your little world, with a friendly atmosphere, celebrating other people’s strengths. One year, we said ‘Yes’ to every invitation or request, and we ended up doing over fifty gigs. Whereas now, we’re not sure that we want to play, on a Wednesday night, the same place we’ve played so many times before. Noah: Depends on how straight a drive it is more now, but as long as it sounds good fun, then we’re okay. We did drive to Bradford for one of the big ones, once, but it was well worth it as it’s a very long way. It was really good, though. You’re only young once, but for a very long time, hopefully. That one moment is stretched.

You’ve got to appreciate it, when you’re still young. Noah: Yes, but there’s a good mix of ages, on the Punk scene, and cutting across the ages has got to be a good thing, hasn’t it? Justin: It’s a good excuse to get out, though, because whatever your musical output, it’s valid, so you’re not constrained by the genre. Noah: It’s more about bringing ideas because, if you can bring the idea with a bit of style, a bit of panache, then you’re winning. Justin: And the audience appreciate that, as some of the Punk bands we like are completely different to other ones. It’s a case of whether you want to pigeonhole yourself, really ... Noah: If you’ve got a certain sound, for example, some people want to go for the Discharge sound, and why not? I saw them in the Underground in

Mutley [Plymouth] in November. Justin: Loud? Just a tad, yeah! Justin: We played with them in Exeter, and they were fantastic. The guy [Cav] doing the soundcheck here, just now, as we’d finished soundcheck asked what style we play, ‘Well, we play Punk Rock music like that. That is what we play!’ and he was like ‘Well, that was quite good. I’m down with that!’ So, I asked him what music he was into, he said ‘Rap’. So, there is this crossover of influences going on all the time, whoever you meet. You’ve been doing this for fourteen years now. Have you ever thought about expanding the band with a guitarist or a keyboardist? Or is it the case that it would add more problems regarding writing, recording and gigging? Noah: Sometimes I get that idea, but then I think maybe that should be a

different band. Also, me and Justin are quick at organising ourselves, and the practicalities mean that this works better for us, when we practice, organise gigs. Justin: Now that we’ve been playing so long together, we know what each other plays like, where I can tighten out the drums, and Noah will drop his sound out for that, then come back in for the heavy bit, because we’re on the same wavelength. Also, when you say expand the band, we have done collaborations. Noah: Our friend, Simon, a poet, did some stuff with us and we had Miscellaneous Ben doing other stuff. Justin: Yeah, so we are open to that kind of thing. Noah: If someone brought in a synthesiser, or something like that, or maybe even another bassist, that might be good. Justin: It’s like you said, Paul, two

Photograph by Kultureland

people are the cornerstone of most bands and, with us, we’re direct. When I first saw you here, a few years ago, and how you bounce off each other, some people might say that it’s in your face, but I thought it was kind of ‘wavy’ in your face, the way the music projected into and around the crowd, with your bass loops, for want of a better description ... Noah: Yes, I kind of get what you mean, with the music that I play, with what are my influences, we live for our moment [on stage], I think, and we’re down with Reggae and Dub, that kind of thing, maybe some Industrial stuff as a pro-active thing, and Throbbing Gristle. I can’t really do a jangly, sixties-vibe thing, so a kind of Industrial Dub would be one way of describing it. Justin: If you have a wide range of musical influences, and you listen to them intently, you get to learn about textures, and not just about tempo. You

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get a feel for the different genres and evolve that into your own sound, a bit of that, a bit of this. Noah: You become a bit like a sponge, absorbing all these ideas, and as you play more you become more competent and, if you like something, it makes it easier to get. With me it’s a very social thing, I’m not that into practicing on my own, so we assess each other when we practice new stuff. Justin: We’ve always loved it though, haven’t we? Noah: It’s very good fun. What else are we going to do? Justin: We’ve always loved playing our instruments, whereas some guys don’t practice for ages and see it as a bit of a chore. I play guitar sometimes, but I’m most at home behind a drum kit. Noah: It all comes back to whether you’re enjoying it.

Justin: And whether you can see the crowd enjoying it. These are songs that we’ve written ourselves, and we love it. For me, that’s what it’s about. Indeed, it is. And with that I thanked the band for a super little interview. It was a shame to end it there, but The Maisonettes were firing up, so we had to head back in to catch them. The gig, you ask? It was fucking blistering! You missed a cracker! *Dig the New Model! Towards the end of the interview, with the band having taken their name from the New Model Army song ‘51st State’ (‘The Ghost of Cain’, 1986), the subject of that band inevitably came up. Justin Sullivan of New Model Army recently said that his gigs now are mostly the new album and people can shout for whatever they want, ‘Green and Grey’ [‘Thunder and Consolation’, 1989], etc, but they probably won’t play them ...

Justin: ‘Vagabonds’ [‘Thunder and Consolation’]. Noah: Yeah. What’s that one I really like? ‘No Rest’ [‘No Rest for the Wicked’, 1985]. And the one about hunting the Nazis, ‘I believe in getting the bastards ...’ Justin: ‘Vengeance’ [‘Vengeance’, 1984]. Noah: That’s a good song, with some welly behind it. Justin: The thing is with New Model Army is that it’s really good stuff. The other day, I was listening to playlists and found myself thinking that whatever that sound is, that’s what I want, then I realised it was ‘Carnival’ [2005 New Model Army album], and I thought there’s a lot more artistic merit to their songs than I remembered. When you listen to it with new ears, don’t compare it to the early stuff, just enjoy it for what it is. That’s true for most music, really. He’s definitely exploring different avenues.

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Yes, I saw Justin Sullivan at a sit-down gig at the Exeter Phoenix last year, and I saw New Model Army at Bristol SWX in 2019, which was a really good gig ... Justin: It’s the atmosphere of their gigs now. But the reason that I asked about New Model Army in the first place, of course, is your band name. Either that, or you’re really into the film ‘The 51st State’ (2001)? Noah: It’s a good film, to be fair. We got into New Model when we were about fourteen. I was just talking to my mate, Rob, and he said that you could easily have called yourselves ‘Green and Grey’, or ‘Vagabonds’, or ‘Thunder and Consolation’ [‘Thunder and Consolation’]. Justin: Yes, we considered these options, but naaah, we were in Ilminster and you’re not really aware of the wider world and options. Noah: It’s just the name. I mean, the band we were called before was The Skeletons. Justin: These things cease to be what they were and are what they are now. Noah: It’s a fairly strange name, but other bands with the same name pop up every now and then. There’s a Punk

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covers band from London, that I’ve seen on YouTube, and there’s a ’77 Punk band from up North. The thing is though, you don’t really ape New Model Army, as your name might suggest. Noah: That’s good. Justin: Stiff Little Fingers are named after a song by The Vibrators [of the same name from ‘Pure Mania’, 1977]. They did it, so it seems like a legit idea ... and we had to call ourselves something as we had some gigs booked. Noah: There was a council-run youth project, with this little bus going around the countryside, where they sorted out some gigs to do and they’d give you fizzy pop and biscuits. We had a guitarist in our band but, for whatever reason, he dropped out, so we got a distortion pedal. So, that’s how we did it. 51st State’s latest release is a six-track album called ‘Plastic’, released in early January as a download on Bandcamp. It is an absolute blast and well worth the purchase, so buy it now! 51ststateuk.bandcamp.com www.facebook.com/100063360543123 www.facebook.com/ nowhereinnplymouth

Taxi for the Whippets: Steve Aungle on the Life, Loves and Genius of

Billy MacKenzie Interview by Alice Jones-Rodgers.

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“Billy had this way about him which was very intense, but he had a certain charm with it.”

Mention the name Billy MacKenzie and if it triggers any reaction at all, many people will generally remember him as the glamorouslyattired (sometimes in a mac and beret, sometimes in full airline pilot garb), uniquely operatic-voiced gentleman standing centre-stage with The Associates on ‘Top of the Pops’ performing their trio of hits from 1982, ‘Party Fears Two’ (UK#9); ‘Club Country’ (UK#13) and ‘18 Carat Love Affair / Love Hangover’ (UK#21). However, The Associates were just a small part of the Billy MacKenzie story, one that began in earnest with the formation of cabaret duo The Ascorbic Ones with fellow Associate, guitarist and keyboardist Alan Rankine in 1976 and was cut tragically short when on 22nd January 1997, he took his own life in the garden shed of his family’s home in Auchterhouse, Angus, Scotland. Following Rankine’s decision to leave The Associates in 1982, shortly before a tour in support of that

year’s second album, ‘Sulk’ (UK#10), MacKenzie continued to write and record as a solo artist under the band’s name until 1990, releasing two further albums, 1985’s ‘Perhaps’ (UK#23) and 1990’s ‘Wild and Lonely’ (UK#71). In between these two albums, in 1988, he recorded ‘The Glamour Chase’, but as would be the fate of much of the vast amount of solo material he committed to tape between 1982 and 1997, it was shelved and would not see the light of day until after his death. Somebody who had been watching the ups and downs of MacKenzie’s career very closely was one Steve Aunger, who in 1979 had turned down an audition for the post of The Associates’ drummer in favour of working with a cabaret band. Whilst The Associates were riding high on the crest of a wave of critical and commercial success, Aunger was getting to know MacKenzie’s large Catholic family and eventually began

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Steve with Billy in 1994

recording with their eldest son in 1986. A version of one of the two songs that the pair worked on during these sessions, ‘Set Me Up’, would later appear on ‘The Glamour Chase’. Aunger would get to work with MacKenzie much more in the mid-’90s, a time that judging by the 3CD boxset ‘Billy MacKenzie: Satellite Life Recordings 1995-1996’, set for release on 22nd April by Cherry Red Recordings, was an even more prolific time for MacKenzie than the previous decade. Some of the output from this purple patch may have been released on various posthumous albums such as ‘Beyond the Sun’ (1997); Paul Haig collaboration ‘Memory Palace’ (1999); ‘Eurocentric’ (2001); ‘Auchtermatic’ (2005) and ‘Transmission Impossible’ (2005), but ‘Billy MacKenzie: Satellite Life Recordings 1995-1996’, lovingly curated by Aunger, who also provides some of the incisive sleevenotes, shows them up to be the half-baked,

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record company money-grabbing exercises that they were. Split into three sections (one per disc) entitled ‘Winter Academy’; ‘Consenting Holograms’ and ‘Liberty Lounge’ and beautifully presented with previously unseen photographs of MacKenzie from the relevant period, ‘Billy MacKenzie: Satellite Life Recordings 1995-1996’ truly captures the spirit of a bona fide musical maverick who we lost far too soon. We recently caught up with Aunger at his home in Berlin to delve deeper into this incredible new release and find out just what it was like to be in the presence of the man, the legend that was Billy MacKenzie ... and, of course, his prize whippets! Firstly, hello Steve and thank you for agreeing to our interview, it is lovely to speak to you. 22nd April this year sees the release of the 3CD boxset ‘Billy MacKenzie: Satellite Life Recordings 1995-1996’ on Cherry Red Recordings, which marks the 25th anniversary of MacKenzie’s

The Associates live in 1980

Mackenzie (left) and Alan Rankine, 1981

passing. Before we talk more about this release and your involvement in the recordings featured in the set, we believe that your first encounter with MacKenzie was way back in 1979. How did this first meeting come about and what were your impressions of him at this stage of his career?

meet Billy and I had no idea who he was at this time, because, I mean, at that time, they were just sort of putting together The Associates and he said to me, ‘Do you want to come through to Edinburgh? We’re rehearsing through there’ and I just thought ‘oh ...’ Edinburgh to me was like the end of the world and I said, ‘Edinburgh, that’s way too far! No, I can’t get through to Edinburgh’. I didn’t even have a car at that time, so I just sort of turned him down, you know and said, ‘No, sorry, I’m not interested’ and I joined the other band, you know, sort of playing in bingo halls and working men’s clubs and stuff like that, you know. And then I didn’t really put two and two together until later on and I thought, ‘wait a minute, that was Billy MacKenzie!’ Because, then, literally within about a couple of years, they became really successful and I thought ‘oh, right!’ It wasn’t the best decision! So, we literally just sort of met and then I got to know his brother, John. They were quite a large Catholic family, they were sort of half-Scottish, half-gypsies and I got to know his

Right, well, I literally was a young drummer looking for a band and I put an advert in a local paper in Dundee. I was just looking to make money. I wasn’t really interested in joining a band that was looking for a [record] deal or anything, I was just looking for a cabaret band. You know those bands that play at weddings and stuff? I was very young and saving up for a new drum kit and I got two replies, one from Billy MacKenzie, who at that time had a clothes shop in Dundee called The Crypt and he invited me to come down there and I got another phone call from this cabaret band who could offer me kind of regular work, you know, which is what I was really looking for. So, I went down there to

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brother John and John introduced me to the family, got to know the mother, got on really well with her and then John recommended to Billy that he should do some demos with me and that’s when we started sort of doing work together. That was in 1986. So, there was literally sort of a seven year gap and then we got together and it sort of went on from there. That 1979 audition turned out to have been a chance to join the newly-formed The Associates with MacKenzie and Alan Rankine, who would go on to achieve great success in the ‘80s with the albums ‘The Affectionate Punch’ (1980) and ‘Sulk’ (1982, UK#10), as well as the compilation ‘Fourth Drawer Down’ (1981) and the 1982 singles ‘Party Fears Two’ (UK#9, ‘Sulk’); ‘Club Country’ (UK#13, ‘Sulk’) and ‘18 Carat Love Affair’ / ‘Love Hangover’ (UK#21). You decided against going to that audition in favour of joining the other band that you just mentioned. Is this a decision that you have regretted over the years?

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Not at all, I just didn’t think about it, because I mean, the thing is, we ended up working together anyway and I didn’t think about it. For all I know, I might have gone through to Edinburgh and then failed the audition. Do you know what I mean? It’s not as if he said, ‘Oh, please come and join’ and I said ‘No’, it was like an opportunity to audition, so it might not have worked out anyway. I just sort of believe we’re all fated to go a certain way and I just sort of thought about it that way, I didn’t think for a minute ‘oh, I missed my chance!’ ... I don’t know, to be on ‘Top of the Pops’ or something. So, I never really thought about it that way at all. It’s kind of weird that we did meet up at that point and we got on fine, because he asked me ‘What bands are you listening to?’ and I was listening to, you know, sort of Devo and Talking Heads, you know. He said, ‘Oh, that sounds good’ and he asked me if I could play like a drum machine. He said, ‘We’re looking for a human drum machine’ [laughs]. The drummer they got, actually, John Murphy, was basically a human drum machine! So,

The Associates performing ‘Party Fears Two’ on Top of the Pops, March 1982

anyway, that’s how it went, but I have no regrets about it at all. Following MacKenzie and Rankine parting company in 1982, MacKenzie went alone whilst still using for The Associates name for another three albums (‘Perhaps’, 1985, UK#23; ‘The Glamour Chase’, recorded in 1988 but unreleased until 2002 and ‘Wild and Lonely’, 1990, UK#71). During this time, you became friendly with MacKenzie’s family, which culminated in your first recording session with him in 1986 and a version of one of the two resulting songs, ‘Set Me Up’ appeared on ‘The Glamour Chase’ album. How did that 1986 recording session come about and what are your memories of recording with Mackenzie for the first time? He was very demanding. He was like really in your face, you know, like really demanding, impatient and sort of wanting it all to happen and I was sort of a bit overwhelmed at first. Billy had this way about him which was very

intense, but he had a certain charm with it, so I just thought it was quite funny and the recording room that I had in my flat then, it used to be a child’s bedroom and it had this sort of weird, really loud ABC wallpaper! It was a tiny room and Billy was sort of looking at it [laughs] and going, ‘This is like an acid chamber!’ So, it was like this old child’s bedroom where I had all my equipment and like I say, he was very kind of in your face, very intense, very impatient, but it was alright, because he just sort of had a way about it where you just took it because he had a natural charm. And then we went and did ... the two tracks that we demoed, we then demoed again in a studio in Edinburgh a few weeks later. By this point, MacKenzie had obviously found fame during those early days of the ‘80s. What were your impressions of him at this point of time in comparison to your first meetings with him some years earlier? I happened to notice a certain story about a Rolls Royce?

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Billy performing live in Dundee, 1985

Oh yeah, Jimmy [MacKenzie’s younger brother] and the Rolls Royce! [Laughs]. Two pounds! He put two pounds of petrol in a Rolls Royce! In ‘86, at the time of our first recording sessions together, he owned a Rolls Royce Silver Shadow. Jimmy, his younger brother, often drove the Rolls around Dundee and I had a few rides in it with eighteen-year-old Jimmy at the wheel. He would constantly open and close the electric windows while driving and it could get quite irritating! I remember on one occasion, we stopped at a service station to get petrol and Jimmy put £2 in the Rolls, much to the astonishment of the attendant! Billy loved his cars and he couldn’t drive and said he was really petrified of driving, because he said ‘I would just crash right away! I would just have this urge to crash into a tree or something’, so he didn’t really want to even try it. He had cars and he got other people to sort of drive him around, in a sort of Pop star fashion! I remember seeing another story about him being at a record company

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meeting in Kensington, London at some point in the mid-’80s and asking the label boss for a taxi. He then proceeded to travel by taxi all the way back to Dundee, complete with his prize whippets, who had been residing with him in his hotel room! Yeah, well, he was a top breeder of whippets! Whippets are like the Usain Bolt’s of the dog world and anyway, he used to race his dogs and he had at least a couple of British champions, so he was quite successful with that. He was very keen, he had kennels and I don’t know how many dogs he had, but he had a lot of dogs and in the end, I kind of thought that was something that he could have done. I mean, Billy could have been a vet. He was great with animals and he loved his dogs. Music and dogs were his two passions and I kind of think that maybe he should have just raced his dogs, but at the same time, he had such a talent, you know, for music and he had to follow that as well. I love all dogs, but I fell in love with that breed, whippets. Each

Billy with one of his many whippets

breed has kind of got its own character, hasn’t it? Whippets never bark and they’re really lazy, they just slob around and then when you get them outside, they go mental, you know, they just run everywhere! They’re great to watch, you know, when they’re running around, but indoors, they just slob out on the sofa and don’t do anything! But I’ve never heard a whippet bark! They just do not bark at all, it’s really weird! They’re very quiet. You may just kind of hear a snuffly noise if they want something, but they never bark. Anyway! Going back to the recordings featured on the new ‘Billy MacKenzie: Satellite Life Recordings 1995-1996’ boxset, as evidenced by the 39-tracks featured across the 3CDs, this time spent making music with MacKenzie was quite prolific, but very little of the resulting tracks were used during his lifetime. The release is split into three separate albums (one per disc): ‘Winter Academy’; ‘Consenting Holograms’ and ‘Liberty Lounge’. Could you tell

us a bit about this period of working with MacKenzie and talk us through the recording processes of these three sections of this release? Yeah, well, okay, so, we’ve ended up compiling the tracks in that way because there’s a huge sort of variation in styles. When me and Billy worked together, we did all sorts of different styles. We did sort of piano ballads and Scott Walker-type torch songs, we did Electronic stuff, we did ‘60s Soul, ‘70s Glam Rock and it was all mixed up and so the two posthumous albums, ‘Beyond the Sun’[1997] and ‘Eurocentric’ [2001] were both a bit like that, they were very kind of jumbled up and I really wanted to re-compile them so that you had an album of tracks that kind of hung together stylistically. So, ‘Winter Academy’, the first one, is mostly unplugged. There is an Electronic ballad right at the end, but it’s mostly kind of unplugged torch songs and then the second album [‘Consenting Holograms’] is all the Electronic stuff and the third album has got the band

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based sort of stuff and there’s some ‘60s Soul and some ‘70s Glam Rock on there. And so, we really wanted to sort of compile the tracks and obviously bring in all these new tracks as well, because there’s ... I can’t remember how many new tracks there is, there is at least fourteen or fifteen new tracks, so I put them in the right place and just sort of made it so each album would kind of hang together. And the other thing as well was to get some nice artwork because on all the posthumous releases, the artwork was really terrible! Well, what happened was, in 2005, One Little Indian Records [now renamed One Little Independent Records], they tried to do the same, they released two albums [‘Auchtermatic’ and ‘Transmission Impossible’]. They did these two reissues, which I had nothing to do with and I didn’t even know about them until they came out and they were just really badly done and the artwork was terrible, the compilation of the tracks was terrible and the mixes were terrible and I was just very disappointed that was done kind of behind my back,

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because it was mostly my work that was on there. And so, we wanted to re-address that part of Billy’s catalogue and get it right, sort of get the tracks properly compiled, get good artwork and you know, I think Cherry Red have done a really great job with the artwork and everything. They’re really good at that and that’s one of the reasons that I went to them. So, it’s really just sort of putting the record straight and making sure that that part of Billy’s catalogue was available and presented as it should have been presented in the first place. I think we’ve kind of achieved that. There’s a few rough demos on there, but that’s really for the fans. There’s three or four rough demos on there, but like I say, you’ve got to think of the fans. And I want to give a shout out to Craig Burton, who is the guy who got in touch with me, because this wouldn’t have happened if it hadn’t been for him. This guy, Craig Burton, who’s sort of a Billy MacKenzie aficionado, you know, he’s got all the albums and he’s been involved in other sort of reissues with The Associates material, he got in touch with me and said,

‘Look, you need to sort this out’. Because I had just written off the whole thing, I just thought, ‘right, that’s in the past now, I don’t want to do anything more about it’. So, Craig had got in touch with me and got me motivated and this was last year, about last May or June, and he suggested Cherry Red and I got in touch with them and they got straight back to me! Honestly, it was about five or ten minutes after I sent the email! They were unlike any other record label, ever! They were just so quick! They’re super-efficient and super-quick and I’ve just never really dealt with a label like that. They’re really great to deal with and they’re really sort of on the ball and so I think it was a good choice, you know. As well as curating ‘Billy MacKenzie: Satellite Life Recordings 1995-1996’, you have also written some of the sleevenotes. How did you find the experience of revisiting the recordings featured on this release all these years later? I think the main thing for me, the main

buzz was finding these new tracks. Now, a the beginning of the third CD [‘Liberty Lounge’], there’s three tracks [‘Tomorrow People’; ‘The Mountains That You Climb’ and ‘McArthur’s Son’] which are brand new, they’ve never been heard. They’re kind of like ‘60s Soul type tracks and I had to get back together with these two colleagues of mine, they’re called White Label. I’m not really involved with them so much, but White Label are a kind of remix outfit. I worked with them for three years and we did three remixes for Paul Weller and then they got more involved with him and ended up co-writing with him and that was the point as which I was no longer involved. So, it got back me back working with them again, that was nice. As far as all the old tracks go, I kind of feel a bit neutral about them because I’ve heard them millions of times and it’s just sort of like, you know, trying to figure out running orders and stuff like that. But really, on the new material, digging out old recordings because on some of them, we had to literally build them up from scratch, you know, so we

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just had the vocal to work with. So, we basically just had the vocal with a click-track and literally build the whole thing around it. That’s what we did with a few of the newer tracks and the first track on the third album, ‘Tomorrow People’, I think we’re going to try and push for that to be a single hopefully. That turned out really, really well and we built it from scratch, you know. We just had the voice and we had to put the music around it. So, that the main satisfaction for me, getting the new tracks sorted out and especially that one, ‘Tomorrow People’, that’s just great, I’m so pleased with that. That song has come out really well. That’s it and it’s got lyrics that are very relevant to what’s going on as well. It’s optimistic, isn’t it and [laughs] you’ve got to be optimistic! So, yeah, the main headache with it was the legal stuff because, at the start, we couldn’t get the clearance from One Little Indian, because they owned the rights on ‘Beyond the Sun’ [posthumous 1997

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album]. Well, they thought they did, but their license ran out ages ago and they were claiming that they still owned it. The license that they owned on the album ran out in 2007 and we had the paperwork to prove it, but they kept saying ‘No, no, no, we own it’ and stuff and so, we had to get a lawyer involved and that dragged on for about three or four months back and forth, but we finally got that sorted out. But then, they had the cheek to come at me and say ‘Well, come and work with us, we’ll do it your way and we’ll release it for you’ and I said ‘No chance, you’ve just been absolute bastards about this, I don’t want to work with you! The two releases you did before were an absolute disaster, I’m not going to work with you!’ [Laughs] But anyway, we got all the legalities sorted out and that was a bit of a headache, because the whole process started at the beginning of May last year and now it’s coming out in April, so it’s been a while! I’m sort of pleased to have got it done and hopefully we’ll get some new Billy MacKenzie fans, you know.

It is about time. Well, hopefully we’ll get some younger people into him, because lots of people who are younger have not even heard the name of course. It seems strange to us, but you’re right, there must be so many people who have never heard of him, so that is good. Are there any still unheard recordings from those few years that you chose not to include on ‘Billy MacKenzie: Satellite Life Recordings 1995-1996’ and do you think they might see the light of day at some point in the future? I think there will be, because Billy’s sister, Helen, has got a trunk in her house that’s full of old tapes and no one’s ever been through them. There’s old cassettes and all sorts of old stuff. There’s all these cassettes in this trunk and we feel that there’s probably going to be a load of material to be dug out of that. The thing is, there are other albums from the ‘90s that need to be reissued as well, which are very hard to

get hold of now. There’s the album called ‘The Glamour Chase’ [recorded in 1988 under the name The Associates, but unreleased until 2002], there’s ‘Outernational’ [1992] and there’s one called ‘Wild and Lonely’ [The Associates, 1990], so Craig’s talking about ... we call him the keeper, because he’s the keeper of the flame ... he’s talking about doing the same idea again where you basically reissue a couple of albums and then add a load of extra tracks, depending on what we can find in this trunk, because there’s all these tapes that have been sitting there all that time. Because even out of the stuff that me and Billy did, there’s still tracks that got lost, because Billy lost tracks all the time. So, what would happen was, we would go and record stuff and I would ask the engineer to give us a safety copy, he [Billy] would take the original master and lose it and then say ‘Can I borrow the safety copy?’ And I would say, ‘Well, Billy, you mustn’t lose this because this is the safety copy’, but then he’d go and lose that! He’d go and leave it in a taxi or something! [Laughs]. And so, there

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were tracks that got lost, that I don’t have. I can sort of remember some of them, but I don’t have any versions of them because Billy was always losing the tapes! So, hopefully, some of those tapes will be found in this trunk at his sister’s. That’s the hope anyway. We’ll see and I’m optimistic because he was insanely productive and what he used to do as well is, he would phone people up from a phone box near the house where he lived out in the countryside ... he didn’t have a phone in the house ... and what he used to do is, he used to phone up various friends, if he had an idea for something, and just leave a vocal on their answering machine and he’d use them as means of storing his ideas, because he didn’t have any way of doing it at home. So, you’d go out and you’d come in and there would be a message from Billy and it would just be him singing! He wouldn’t actually say anything, he would just start singing! You would be like ‘What’s this?’ and you would speak to him later and he would be like, ‘Oh, I just needed to get that down!’ [Laughs] So, he just used other people’s answering

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machines to put his ideas down. So, in the end, I think they will discover some new material in that trunk, I’m pretty optimistic about that. So, we’ll see. Finally, MacKenzie sadly left us on 22nd January 1997 at the age of just 39 after overdosing on a combination of paracetamol and prescription medication in his father’s garden shed in Auchterhouse, Angus. There have been several posthumous releases, including ‘Beyond The Sun’ (1997); ‘Memory Palace (with Paul Haig, 1999); ‘Eurocentric’ (2001); ‘Auchtermatic’ (2004); ‘Transmission Impossible’ (2005) and obviously, the long awaited release of ‘The Glamour Chase’ in 2002 and now obviously, there is the release of ‘Billy MacKenzie: Satellite Life Recordings 1995-1996’. A quarter of a century after MacKenzie left us, what do you feel his legacy has been thus far? I think most people concentrate on ... anyone that knows him, they just really know about The Associates’ work and

not so much his later catalogue, so his solo work isn’t really ... even people who are old enough to remember it, there are people who maybe just know about The Associates because that was when he had his hits. I think that his versatility was shown much more as he got older. Because, initially, I know with The Associates stuff, he did that kind of operatic thing, he was like Maria Callas on steroids, but what happened later on was he kind of toned it down and got a lot more delicacy into his voice. He was incredibly versatile and he could do anything with his voice and I think that versatility was more obvious later on his career, you know, with the stuff that we did. So, I think, and I know I’m biased, but I do think he’s one of the most important male vocalists, you know, of the Twentieth Century. His instrument was insane. You know, and he had a rang of about four-and-a-half octaves. Unbelievable. And not only that, but his harmonics and his high range were really rich. Because, normally what happens with the voice is that when it gets up high, it gets thin and nasal, but Billy’s voice

was always rich and had rich harmonics in it. So, I just think he’s really up there with anyone you could really think of in terms of male vocalists of the Twentieth Century. I think that he does deserve more recognition just because he was that good. You know, he really was that good. You know, I got spoiled, I used to hear him sing in the same room, but what an incredible instrument he had. Maybe this [‘Billy MacKenzie: Satellite Life Recordings 1995-1996’] will help. Thank you for a wonderful interview, it has been lovely to talk to you. We wish you all the best with ‘Billy MacKenzie: Satellite Life Recordings 1995-1996’ and for the future. ‘Billy MacKenzie: Satellite Life Recordings 1995-1996’ is released by Cherry Red Recordings on 22nd April. www.cherryred.co.uk/ product/billy-mackenziesatellite-life-satellite-liferecordings-1995-1996-3cd

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German Shepherd Records Presents:

Three Men in a Shed: Having Fun with

Umbrella Assassins Interview by Bob Osborne.

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When I sent the new Umbrella Assassins EP over to my erstwhile companion and label co-owner Mr. Moss, he said “I like it, they sound like they are having fun”. The astute Mr. Moss, as usual, hit the nail on the head: this three-strong band from Haverhill always give the impression that at the heart of what they do is sheer enjoyment at being able to create music together.

Records, in 2017. Also in 2017, we released ‘Cambridge Calling Volume 1’, a charity album compilation featuring artists from the Cambridge area, many of whom had been featured on Dave’s show, and Umbrella Assassins donated the track ‘Chicken’. Seeking wider distribution and marketing, the band asked to join the German Shepherd Kennel and we immediately said yes.

The group’s introduction to German Shepherd Records was, as with the majority of our Cambridgeshire artists, through Dave Hammond. Dave, who is currently on sabbatical from presenting The ‘Smelly Flower Pot Show’ on Cambridge 105 FM and is now writing for this very magazine, is a great supporter of emerging and independent artists. He is very passionate about music. I first met him through the independent DJ network and more notably at a gig from the reformed Distractions at The Kings Arms in Salford. We have very similar tastes in music and often share information on bands and artists.

Before the German Shepherd Records partnership, the band, originally as a four piece and starting in 2006, released a significant number of singles, EPs and albums starting with the impressive debut, ‘Bitterzoet’, a high octane quartet of garage punk tunes. Fans had to wait until April 2008 before the next release another EP called ‘For the Wasted Youth’, recorded, like its predecessor, at The Old School Studios in Norwich. A further wait until June 2009 ended with the release of the single ‘I Don’t Know About That’, which came in a vinyl version as well as digital release.

I picked up on the Umbrellas Assassins on Dave’s show. In 2016, the group began their first experiments in DIY recording. They recorded one song a month, each being released as a single, and eventually pulled them together as an album called ‘12’. This was released on their own label, Pint’A’Bread

The new decade started with ‘Komodo Zoobies’, a collection of live tracks recorded from The BBC Introducing Suffolk Tour in Boxford, UK, which was released in May. This was followed by a series of great releases all still very much in the garage rock genre, ‘Honeysuckle’ (2011); ‘Negative Martin’ (2013) and

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Steve

‘Are You Happy?’ (2015), the latter being recorded live by Matt Plumb at Kedington Studio Hall, Suffolk. The 2016 release, the drummer-less ‘Build A Berk’ saw the band reduced to the core trio of Steve Church (guitar / vocals); Andrew Plumb aka “Bunge” (bass / vocals) and Garry McKervill (drums / percussion / keys / vocals). With Garry picking up the drum duties from the 2016 single ‘NaCl’ onwards, the trio saw the birth of Shed Punk and they embarked on the aforementioned monthly series of single releases. All of this activity was done D.I.Y with nothing but an iRig and an iPad in Steve’s Shed. The ‘12’ album is presented in chronological order and includes six bonus tracks. Newcomers to the group should start with this release, which is available as a name your price download on Bandcamp. Two further singles were released before the band joined German Shepherd. 2018 saw the recording of ‘Live at

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the Crunch’ in Norwich. The Crunch studio is housed in a cold war bunker and is run by Mr. Jason, responsible for many of the band’s earlier recordings. The facility was originally an Operations Control Centre during the Battle of Britain. Initially built in 1939 as a Decontamination Centre for chemical warfare, it has its own particular ambience. Jason has a considerable collection of vintage audio equipment and the band utilised this to full effect and recorded three tracks live to analog tape. This became the band’s first release on German Shepherd Records. 2019 saw the setting up of the bands own recording studio, in Garry’s garage, and the release of two singles ‘Sweat it Out’ and ‘Dad’s Song’. Dubbed Tiny Eyes Studio, this became their new base of operations, resulting in the debut full length album in 2020 called ‘Humanity’. A kind of concept album, the release concerned “Dodo Freak (Freakum

Bunge

Dodois), the last of his kind, who having lost faith in humanity, escapes to a new planet. As years go by, he wonders what has become of his old home, so he decides to look. Hurtling through the countryside in his spaceship, he meets a girl, falls in love and starts a family. Through new found friends, he assembles a band of humans, those lucky few. The pioneers of the twelve by ten. The creators of Shed Punk. Umbrella Assassins”. The latter end of 2020 saw the commencement of a three release project under the overall title ‘King of Fruit’. The third and final part of that trilogy, slightly delayed by lockdown, finally got released in February 2021. It seemed sensible at that time to catch up with the band and get an update on their progress and future plans so a virtual interview was set up ... OK guys, how about a brief history of the band?

Garry

Garry: We started off in 2006 as a Garage Rock four-piece, gigging heavily in East Anglia, London and occasionally further afield, with two memorable gigs in Amsterdam. In 2016, we became drummer-less, and with a re-jig formed a trio, and consequently a slight change in our ‘sound’ came about. Around the same time, we started practising in Steve’s shed and one evening, after several beers, Shed Punk was born. When I was first introduced to you, the USP was that you actually recorded in a Shed. Things have changed with things moving to Garry’s garage, so what happened? Steve: In the shed, we were using an electronic drum kit and Garry wanted to have a stab at recording a ‘real’ drum kit using a technique he’d read about and he set about creating a space for this in his garage. Although funnily enough we have recently spoken about going back to the electronic drums on future recordings. A fully soundproof recording studio was created and

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although small, it was also perfectly formed, just like Garry’s tiny eyes! What is the story behind the 2020/2021 ‘King of Fruit’ Trilogy? Steve: I eat a lot of fruit, but I’ve never had durian fruit. I’ve read about them and how they evoke widely different opinions from love to absolute disgust. I liked the thought of a fruit being ‘banned’, as it is in some countries, apparently! This all got me thinking about music. In the music video for ‘Rich’, from ‘Volume 1’ [2020], we imagined fruit was some sort of currency or something reserved for the rich and we gorged ourselves upon it until we went crazy. After this, I started to think about how music ‘grows’ like fruit on a tree. When it’s ripe, it’s picked and its seeds are distributed, listened to and opinions are formed. Then, as an offshoot, no pun intended, we decided we would release the songs as segments; or volumes, as it’s more commonly known. This was partly due to COVID restrictions limiting our time in the studio together

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and having the idea each volume’s artwork would represent hell, purgatory and heaven, consecutively. Each volume features a durian fruit, ‘the king of fruit’ in its art work. I think we also thought it was a cool name for a bunch of songs. I hope to one day taste a durian fruit and form my own opinion. What current music are you listening to? Steve: I listen to the radio most of the time, other than that I like the band’s Hot Snakes and Viagra Boys. I’ve been watching a lot of live performances on YouTube on a channel called Levitation and old live Nirvana stuff. Recently, I’ve been listening to Elvis. Garry: I like discovering and listening to new music and listen to [BBC Radio] 6 Music most of the day and also like a lot of Australian bands. Recently, I’ve been listening to The Mysterines, Ty Segall & Freedom Band, Wet Leg, Acid Dad, Tamar Aphek, The Grogans and Amyl and the Sniffers to name a few.

Bunge: I’ve been listening to old stuff mainly. Joy Division, James Brown, The Stones, The Beatles The Doors and Dylan. Loads of Motown. On a more contemporary note, we saw Hot Snakes and The Chats live and they were great. The Mysterines Crocodylus, Ty Segall, Slaves, and much of what Steve and Garry have mentioned. I tend to just add tracks I like to a massive playlist and press shuffle. How do you go about writing songs? Steve: I normally pick up the guitar at home and come up with a riff or chord progression and then I’ll start singing a melody along to that and see what comes out lyrically, then start to write the song down. I’ll record it on my phone, share it with the other two and we’ll start to jam it in the shed and bounce ideas. Your favourite venues? Steve: I one hundred percent prefer smaller intimate venues. Pubs are ideal. We always enjoy playing at a really

cool venue called The Smokehouse in Ipswich. Bunge: I used to love playing Vince Mumbles’ nights at the Montague Arms in New Cross. You’d get there half the time and it’d look like it was closed, but when you stepped in, it was an Aladdin’s cave of curios and bric-a-brac. We used a bit of footage we recorded there in one of our early videos, but I’m not sure if it’s still going. Obviously, it’s been difficult travelling too far of late, but we made it up to the Castle Hotel in the Northern Quarter in Manchester for a brilliant gig with our labelmates Adventures of Salvador and Electric Cheese in 2020. Hopefully we’ll make it back up there this year! You are very much a DIY outfit recording-wise, what equipment do you use? Garry: In Tiny Eyes Studios, I have a pretty simple set up at the moment but am always learning and looking for new ways to do things. Currently, I

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have a 4 Channel Focusrite Interface, recording us all separately normally with Steve’s guitar as a guide track, then we build from there. I have a mixture of AKG and Shure mics and use Reaper to record, mix and master everything. Probably a daft question given the state of things, but do you have any gigs planned? Steve: We have no gigs booked at the moment, the start of the year is always a bit quiet. We’re gonna practice hard and get ready for a busy summer hopefully. What have you got planned now that ‘King of Fruit’ is complete? Steve: We have two more songs written and want to record them in Tiny Eyes and hope to release them as singles or one double A-side. What would you say are the main musical influences on the band? Steve: I’d say my three main influences are the Minutemen, Oblivians and Nirvana. You have released a lot of material, so would you describe yourselves as prolific? Steve: I don’t think of us as prolific at all. When I look at bands like The Fall, the Pixies or people like Ty Segall and

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the amount of quality songs they’ve put out, I think I’m being lazy. But then, they don’t have day jobs I’m guessing. I’m happy that we have put out so much stuff, not just songs, the videos, the art, all the gigs we’ve done over the years. It makes me proud. Sometimes, when we’re having a beer, we will listen back to what we’ve done and some of it we’ll be like, ‘That’s really cool’ and some of it we’ll say, ‘Well, that could have been better’ and that’s what pushes me on. I want to make the best music I can and I don’t spend a lot of time looking back at what we’ve done in the past, that’s history now.

The complete Umbrella Assassins back catalogue is available at: umbrellaassassins.bandcamp.com www.facebook.com/Brollys1

xPropaganda

Renowned for its fashion, design, vibrant arts scene and proximity to the rest of Europe, the German city of Düsseldorf was also responsible for two of the finest Electronic albums of the 1980s. First came Kraftwerk’s 1981 commentary on the rise of computers in society, ‘Computer World’, whilst four years later, Propaganda gave us ‘A Secret Wish’.

By 1987, the members of Propaganda, keyboardist Ralf Dorper, percussionist Michael Mertens, programmer Andreas Thein and vocalists Susanne Freytag and Claudia Brücken had all broken away to pursue other musical ventures. However, the 21st Century has seen various reincarnations of the band, the latest being xPropaganda, a duo comprising Freytag and Brücken and formed in time to support Heaven 17 (who’s vocalist Glenn Gregory guested on ‘A Secret Wish’) on their 2018 ‘The Luxury Gap’ 35th Anniversary Tour. Roll forward four years and with Lipson, fresh from collaborating with Hans Zimmer on the ‘No Time to Die’ (2021) soundtrack having returned to offer a similarly epic production, xPropaganda present their fantastic new album ‘The Heart is Strange’, due for release on ZZT Records on 20th May.

Released on ZZT Records and produced by Stephen Lipson under the guidance of label boss Trevor Horn, ‘A Secret Wish’ was not only a huge critical success, but also a commercial one, reaching number sixteen on the UK charts and spawning two top 30 singles, ‘Dr. Mabuse’ (UK#27) and ‘Duel’ (UK#21). Meanwhile, a third single, ‘pMachinery’, featuring Japan’s David Sylvian, provided the soundtrack for Duran Duran vocalist Simon Le Bon’s 1985 Whitbread Round the World Race yachting video ‘Drum’, became a number one hit in Spain and, in the US, featured in a 1986 episode of ‘Miami Vice’ entitled ‘The Fix’.

“We always thought it was a shame that an album as distinctive and acclaimed as ‘A Secret Wish’ seemed destined to be a one-off”, says Brücken. “It certainly meant a lot to us, and it never seemed right that the story stopped there. Working again with Stephen Lipson means that we can turn our dreams about what the ZTT follow up to ‘A Secret Wish’ would sound like into a reality. The reality is ‘The Heart is Strange’”. And with its strident beats, glacial soundscapes and expressive vocal performances, it is an album which manages to evoke classic Propaganda whilst being effortlessly contemporary.

A Strange and Heartfelt Return Review and Interview by Alice Jones-Rodgers.

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Frenchy’s Rants Sweet Music and War!

The thirty-sixth part in an exclusive series by Flicknife Records co-founder Marco ‘Frenchy’ Gloder. 126

The sun is shining outside, signs of spring all around, birds are tweeting, riding is not as cold as it was a couple of weeks ago, so life is good … yes, but Putin is playing silly buggers, our government are playing even sillier buggers and HMRC are making my life harder that it needs to be. If it wasn’t for great music coming through every day, it would be really annoying. Someone much cleverer than I once said, “Without music, life would be a mistake” ... Amen to that! Keeping an eye on politics and politicians is something everyone should do because otherwise, they’d get away with murder ... literally. But it gets tiring and, in the end, short of a revolution, there’s precious little we can do: let’s be honest, they’re all in it together. Be aware, be ready for the day the people strike back. In the meantime, there’s music, sweet, sweet music, food for the soul, balm for the heart, stimulant for the brain … not to mention that toe-tapping thing! I have always found that music could reach the parts other art forms could not: music can make me smile (‘Shaddup You Face’ by Joe Dolce, 1980), it can make me cry (‘Unchained Melody’ by The Righteous Brothers, ‘Just Once in My Life’, 1965), it can make me dance like a loony (‘Neat, Neat, Neat’ by The Damned, ‘Damned Damned Damned’, 1977), it can make me thoughtful (‘All Or Nothing’ by Small Faces, 1966) or it can bring me back to my youth like a sonic time machine (‘Space is Deep’ by

Hawkwind, ‘Doremi Fasol Latido’, 1972) … and that’s just a few of the many things music can do. We all have favourite tracks, songs that mean that much to each of us that they have become part of our personality, part of our psyche. Without those songs, we wouldn’t be the same people, your life, my life would be different. And then, there are those tracks that we secretly love but wouldn’t admit to it in public! Come on, we all have our secret tracks, the guilty pleasures, so simple and catchy, not asking much of you but to be heard and loved: hahaha … you know what I’m talking about! Look, it’s only human nature: some tracks speak to us at gut level, you can fight it but you know, deep down that you just love them. I have several! The main one is Air Supply’s ‘All Out of Love’ (1980, ‘Lost in Space’): I have cried, danced, drank, f*kked to that song and yet up to a few years ago, I would have denied all knowledge of it! To the ‘serious’ music fan in me, it was an aberration: how could I love Can’s ‘Vitamin C’ (1972, ‘Ege Bamyası’) and ‘All Out Of Love’? It made no sense for decades, so I had to deny it, sometimes even to myself. I suppose it is intellectual snobbery. As we hear more and more music, our tastes develop and with music in particular, Pop music is seen as the poor cousin whereas Prog Rock is supposed to be king. It’s all bollox of course: music is music, a collection of notes, chords with a beat and singing. If you like

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what you hear, it is all that matters, never mind what the critics say. After all my years in this industry, I can now see that ‘All Out of Love’ is just as valid a track (maybe more so) as King Crimson’s ‘21st Century Schizoid Man’ (1969, ‘Court of the Crimson King’) and for a label, a hell of a lot more profitable! The Next Day, 25/02/2022: It can’t be ignored any longer: as much as I wanted to write about the power of music, the news of Russia declaring war against Ukraine is too awful to ignore. Obviously, I don’t know any more than anyone else: what I do know is that I was born not that long after WW2 and the scars were still visible a decade later. It’s not something we want on our doorstep. Like most people, I am baffled at such a wanton act of aggression: this is Putin’s war, not two people going at it. Make no mistake, despite everything, Putin is a Communist of the old school, ex-KGB officer, and he wants Russia to go back to the soviet system: Under his leadership, Russia has shifted back gradually to authoritarianism, so he doesn’t care about democracy. Added to that, it’s not the first time that he has led Russia into war, either as Prime Minister (under puppet President Medvedev) or President. He was in charge for the second Chechen War, the Russo-Georgian War and the annexation of Crimea. He has form for acting like a violent thug: look at what

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is happening in the wake of the invasion of Ukraine. All world leaders condemned his action and imposed sanctions but Putin said ‘try and stop me and you’ll get a slap’: what does that tell you? NATO should have sent troops and equipment to Ukraine and stopped the invasion, by force if necessary. You can’t let a cancer grow and then intervene; the countries of the world should have united and slapped him as soon as he set a foot in Ukraine …. and screw the Russian gas supply. We’d get cold for a while, but we’d have stopped a psychopath doing more damage further down the line. And please, don’t come over all hippy with notions of ‘Peace and Love’: the man wants war, that much is obvious, and I can’t see flower power helping much. Stop him before he has time to establish his stronghold in Ukraine, stop yapping, start acting because once he has his feet under the table, it’ll be too late. He saw our leaders as weak and divided so he struck the first blow, knowing full well that the rest of the world wouldn’t risk a war in Europe. It was just like a football match: whoever scored first would win 1-0 … but there is just about enough time for a draw, In sha’Allah. Having said all this, one thing music does very well is unite people. Maybe someone should send ‘All Out of Love’ to Putin as a subtle reminder. Maybe, through music, he might understand that people do not want war and

nobody cares whether he writes his name in the history books or not. The common people of the world are not natural born fighters, they just want peace and safety for their families. As Edwin Starr sang in 1970, “War, what is it good for? Absolutely nothing” … Sing it again! This rant is dedicated to the memory of Nicky Tesco (below). RIP and thanks for the memories. www.flickniferecords.co.uk

Frenchy says of the photograph on page 126: “This was taken a few weeks after the Brexit vote and within that short period of time, I had been told to ‘f*ck off back where you come from’ twice. Racism had been given a voice: it had never happened in the previous forty years I had been in the UK. Now, I’m a British citizen, I can answer ‘I am from zis country!’”

www.facebook.com/Flicknife

Photograph by Ebet Roberts

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Life Begins Again:

The War of the Worlds Alive on Stage! Interview by Martin Hutchinson Photography by Simon Lowery.

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“There’s always ways to evolve it.” - Jeff Wayne. One of the most trailblazing arena tours of all time, Jeff Wayne’s musical version of ‘The War of The Worlds’, ‘Alive on Stage!’ returns to arenas throughout the UK in 2022. Based on HG Wells’ dark Victorian tale, it remains a firm favourite to millions around the world. In 2006, the first ‘The War of the Worlds’ tour was considered a cutting edge production with six trucks filled to the brim. 2022 marks a momentous sixteen years of touring and these days, there are up to twelve trucks carrying a host of ingredients and special effects that will challenge and excite the senses for audiences of all ages, all set to Wayne’s iconic score. ‘Jeff Wayne’s Musical Version of War of the Worlds’ was originally released as a double album by CBS Records in 1978 and featured Richard Burton, The Moody Blues’ Justin Hayward, David Essex and Julie Covington. It has enjoyed huge success and critical acclaim across the globe with over sixteen million records sold. To date, it has spent over 330 weeks on the UK Album Charts and has spawned two

international hit singles, ‘Forever Autumn’ (1978, UK#5) and ‘The Eve of the War’ (1978, UK#36 and 1989, UK#3 when remixed by Ben Liebrand). It has been top ten in 22 countries and Number one in eleven of them. In 2012, ‘The New Generation’ double album was released and featured an expanded storyline with a new cast including Liam Neeson, Take That’s Gary Barlow, Joss Stone and Kaiser Chief’s Ricky Wilson. Wayne’s musical version has also won two prestigious UK Ivor Novello Awards, the US Best Recording in Science Fiction and Fantasy (the judges included Alfred Hitchcock, George Lucas and Steven Spielberg), as well as winning for Wayne, Classic Rock magazine’s ‘Showman of the Year’ award following the debut arena tour in 2006. ‘Jeff Wayne’s Musical Version of The War of the Worlds’ has grown into a true classic, acquiring new generations of devoted followers since its original release. It has now been seen in London’s West End and released as a chart-topping five-hour Audible audiobook featuring Michael Sheen, Taron Egerton and Theo James, and in 2019, ‘Jeff Wayne’s The War of the

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Martian flying machine firing a three flumed heat ray.

Worlds: The Immersive Experience’ opened at London’s Old Metal Exchange and won the THEA Award, the ‘Oscar’ of the interactive world. Now COVID compliant, it is re-opening again from May 2022. The 2006 DVD topped the UK Music DVD Charts for seven consecutive weeks and was seen for a year on Sky Arts TV, whilst the 2012 DVD also enjoyed similar success. For the latest tour, Wayne has combined elements of both the original stage version and the ‘New Generation’ shows, as well as adding new sections. He tells me, “The show has been developed for this tour, there are new things added and there is a balance of ingredients that make it fresh”. The show contains the iconic three-ton, thirty-foot tall Martian Fighting Machine firing real-flame heat rays at the audience; the eight-piece Black Smoke Band and symphonic ULLAdubULLA strings; Surround Sound; three panoramic screens featuring two hours of cutting edge CGI and video content. And if you are

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not content with that, on this tour, there is the incineration of a cast member in full view of the audience, which has been dubbed ‘The Flaming Man’. Wayne explains, “The Flaming Man is a segment of the ‘Immersive Experience’ where Ogilvy the Astronomer greets the visitors and gets zapped and turns into ‘The Flaming Man’ and disintegrates into ashes. It’s very believable and a further extension to the show. I think for a live audience, it’ll be another ingredient that will engulf them. I’m always looking for new stuff for the show.” Among the stars taking part in this tour are Steps’ Claire Richards as Beth, the Parson’s wife; and BBC ‘Strictly Come Dancing’s Kevin Clifton as the Artilleryman. Richards says, “I am so thrilled to be joining the cast of ‘Jeff Wayne’s The War of the Worlds’ for their 2022 Arena tour. To be a part of such an iconic production is so exciting and I’m really looking forward to getting back out on the road.”

Jeff conducting

Liam Neeson will be returning in 3D holographic form as The Journalist and the new tour heralds the return of Justin Hayward as ‘the sung thoughts of the journalist’ for his entrancing rendition of ‘Forever Autumn’. Also in the cast are Blue’s Duncan James as Parson Nathaniel, Inglorious’ Nathan James as The Voice of Humanity and Wayne’s daughter, Anna-Marie Wayne as Carrie, the journalist’s fiancé. Wayne likes to keep many of the original musicians in the ensemble and as well as the return of Justin Hayward, Chris Spedding, who played guitar on the original album as well as every tour to date, also returns. “Me and Jeff go back to about 1970”, Chris tells me. “He used to be the ‘Jingle King’, one was for Gordon’s Gin, and I worked with him as Advision Studios, where we eventually recorded ‘The War of the Worlds’”. Chris goes on to explain how his parts for the original album were recorded: “It was all pretty organic, he [Jeff Wayne] always worked like that. It was all very casual, it was me, Barry De Souza,

The Artilleryman (Adam Garcia) standing on the bridge

Barry Morgan, Herbie Flowers, Ray Cooper and sometimes Jo Partridge. We didn’t work to a click-track like they do now. All the chord symbols were written out and we just jammed along. Jeff would know how a certain musician would play. We worked two or three times a week for about three weeks. There were three or four studios at Advision and Jeff had them all booked for ‘War of the Worlds.” And he used a number of guitars: “Yes, mainly, I used a Gibson SG Junior, a Flying V and a Gibson J200 Acoustic.” Spedding wasn’t aware of the initial success of the album, as he explains: “I was agreeably surprised by it’s success. I actually left the UK to live in New York in 1978 and it didn’t really take off in America as it did in Britain. It was nearly thirty years later, when I came back, that I realised how big it was.” He was the obvious choice to recreate his guitar parts for the tours, and he enjoys it: “I do, yeah. If someone’s got to go out and do my parts, then I want to do

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workout jumping around on the podium and I still play tennis two or three times a week. It’s a case of ‘Do the public want us to tour?’” And there may be yet more changes in the future, as he tells us: “There’s always ways to evolve it. And I’m glad I’ve evolved the music without harming it.” Jeff Wayne with Liam Neeson

it.” But there was a problem to be surmounted: “Yes, I had to learn all my parts as it was all recorded in bits and we never played the record as it was heard. I was impressed by the production and happy to be involved in it.” This tour is called the ‘Life Begins Again’ tour and I wondered if, even though there is a section of the album entitled that, whether Wayne might be commenting on current affairs. “Yes, it’s deliberately titled because of the events in the world,” says Wayne. “When I first composed ‘The War of the Worlds’, there was a secondary theme originally called ‘Life Begins Again’. It’s where we discover that the Martians wouldn’t survive due to human bacteria. The tune always stayed with me and it went in the 2014 West End run and it’s now in the new show ... twice! It’s ironic that it’s relevant to today. Let’s hope that we are starting to see life beginning again.” Wayne, now 78, will still be there conducting the show: “I’m fighting fit, thankfully. I get a

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Jeff Wayne’s Musical Version of ‘The War of the Worlds’ - the ‘Life Begins Again’ tour will be heading around the UK during March and April. Tickets are available from box offices and all the usual agencies. www.thewaroftheworlds.com www.facebook.com/ thewaroftheworlds

Cyrano The Long and Short of It

Review by Alice Jones-Rodgers. A decade ago, I did something previously unthinkable and walked out of a cinema mid-film. The film in question was ‘Anna Kerenina’, Joe Wright’s all style but no substance and impenetrably dull retelling of Leo Tolstoy’s classic 1877 novel. From that point on, despite the fact that I had previously enjoyed 2007’s ‘Atonement’ and in 2017, there was a brief admission that Wright could be nearly as good as he thinks he is with the World War II political drama ‘The Darkest Hour’, I have always erred on the side of caution when it comes to a new Wright film just in case it causes me to up and leave a cinema mid-film for the second time in my entire life. So, here it is, Wright’s ninth full-length film, ‘Cyrano’. Yes, it is another period piece based on a literary classic, this time Edmond Rostand’s 1897 fictionalised account of fellow playwright Cyrano de Bergerac, who’s enormous schnozz prevents him from expressing his love for the beautiful and intelligent Roxane (sic). As you

may have guessed, with ‘Game of Thrones’ (HBO, 2011-2019) star Peter Dinklage taking the lead role, it is the titular character’s diminutive size rather than his nose that is the root of his insecurity in what is billed as a musical adaptation. And here is my first point of contention, because having sat through 124 long minutes of ‘Cyrano’ (and I promise you, I did), I cannot remember a single song. Instead, what stands head and shoulders, so to speak, above any other aspect of ‘Cyrano’ is the vast acting talents of Dinklage, who, at times, particularly when out-insulting his detractors, brings a comedic flair which nearly measures up to Steve Martin’s portrayal of Charlie “C.D.” Bales in everybody’s favourite interpretation of this story, 1987’s ‘Roxanne’ and at other times, manages to pull back what would otherwise be obnoxiously long and laborious scenes from the brink of disaster with his more serious acting. As ‘Cyrano’ crawled towards its dismal anti-climax, I did wonder whether walking out of a Wright film for the second time might be more satisfying than seeing it through to the end. Instead, I left the cinema with several other miserable-looking punters as the credits rolled, with this film having strengthened my opinion that Wright, even in spite of once again having had access to a $30m budget and the cream of Hollywood’s talent, is one of the most overrated directors to ever work in cinema.

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Maze Get Lost in Britpop! Interview by Paul Phillips.

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“I think we have that ‘90s Britpop sound ... Good catchy riffs and strong choruses!” London Indie Rockers Maze may have been started as a studio-based recording project by vocalist Gary Davis and rhythm guitarist Paul Bassom, but with the addition of lead guitarist Scott Forsyth; bassist Ben Rutherford and drummer Aaron Palmer, they soon became a fully-fledged gigging band, selling out London’s prestigious 100 Club and touring with Toyah Willcox. Having released two EPs, ‘From Start to Perfection’ (2019) and ‘Montrose Way’ (2020) and a whole host of singles (the latest being ‘Coming for You’, released on 18th February), all of which knowingly and wonderfully hark back to the heady days of Cool Britannia, the scene has been set for the release of the Maze’s debut album ‘Chaos Interrupted’, expected next month. In support of the record, the band have recently announced three live dates at The Night Owl in Finsbury Park, London on 9th April; The Holdroyd in Guildford and, perhaps

most exciting of all, the legendary Cavern Club in Liverpool on 15th May. Parkas and beanie hats at the ready as I catch up with Davis to ask him all about ‘Chaos Interrupted’ and why now is the perfect time for the second coming of Britpop! Thank you for agreeing to our interview, Gary. So, first off, could you tell us a bit about yourself? Hi, Yeah I’m Gary, I was formerly lead singer of The Theme with guitarist Paul Bassom, then decided to take time out of music to focus on my career. Five years now and I’m back with Maze! Please tell me as much as you can about your band Maze. I’ve been following your rapid rise to success during the past couple of years, but for the benefit of others, how did the band start out and could you introduce us to your members?

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Well, as I said, I took time out of the 100% commitment it takes to be in a band, but wanted to get back into music when I felt like it, so me and Paul Bassom started Maze, which then was just us two and more of a recording project really, so we released a couple of songs and an EP called ‘From Start to Perfection’. We would invite people from other bands to get involved. Then, just before Christmas 2020, we got talking to Scott Forsyth from The Lightscopes about getting involved with Maze and he then brought in Aaron Palmer [drummer] and before we knew it we had the makings of a band, and the last piece of the jigsaw saw Ben Rutherford join just after the lockdown. So our first release was April 2021 with ‘In My Mind’ and our first proper was gig was July 2021.

wasn’t for those two, it’s as simple as that, changed my life and Oasis got me into the older bands like The Stone Roses and The Beatles.

What are your main musical influences? I know that your guitarist Scott Forsyth is a big Oasis fan, so are you a big fan of Noel and Liam Gallagher too?

Yeah, basically, we got together during the pandemic and were able to get all the ideas together. The journey so far has been fantastic, in such a short space of time, I think, with what we’ve done ... the publishing deal with 50/50 Global Musik, the Willcox gig and The

I would not be talking to you now if it

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How would you describe your sound? I think we have that ‘90s Britpop sound, which now seems to be making a bit of a comeback with other bands around. Good catchy riffs and strong choruses! You seem to have weathered the pandemic nicely and be at the top of your game. What do you think has been your greatest moment so far with Maze? Supporting Toyah Willcox is a good one for your CV and the 100 Club appearance in London must have been great!

100 Club. I think being involved in a sell-out 100 Club gig so far is the greatest moment for me. Could you tell us about your new single and future plans, personally and as a band, if you can? ‘Coming for You’ is a powerful ballsy Rock and Roll song with a fishing hook of a chorus [laughs]. I mean, once you hear it, it will grab you and pull you in! [Laughs], this is now out on all digital formats. The debut album, titled ‘Chaos Interrupted’, is due for release next month and we have just confirmed a gig at the famous Cavern in Liverpool for IPO [International Pop Overthrow] Festival in May. My future plan is just to keep doing what I’m doing, I’m enjoying this at the moment! Do you and the band have a five-year plan and do you have any big aspirations, like playing Glastonbury for example? Not exactly a plan as anything can happen in this game, but I think I speak

for the five of us when I say we would love that support slot, get to play at top venue with, say someone like Ocean Colour Scene, The Rifles and so on and, yeah, the big festivals would be amazing! Finally, what’s your favourite alcoholic beverage? Also, can you put me on the guest list for your next gig?! Absolutely matey, we shall get you on the guest list! No problem mate! Mmmm, favourite beverage has to be a pint of Stella! Thank you so much for sharing your time with us, we wish you all the best with the upcoming debut album, ‘Chaos Interrupted’ and for the future. ‘Chaos Interrupted’ is out next month on 50/50 Global Musik. www.facebook.com/ mazemusicuk

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Tim Holehouse

The Mirror Crack’d

Dave Hammond and Paul Foden offer two perspectives on ‘Very’, a career-spanning ‘best of’ which closes one chapter and Clears the Way for Another. 140

Tim Holehouse is a very busy chap who loves touring, regularly clocking in excess of 200 gigs per year, so you can only imagine the effect the various lockdowns had on his mental health. However, being a resourceful chap, he decided to write his way out of the doldrums and, I am told he now has six albums of material ready to unleash on the world. However, before any of this is released, Tim has decided to close the chapter on his pre-lockdown career with a first ‘best of’, called ‘Very’. Despite most of his music have its roots in the Delta Blues, it’s a gloriously diverse album of 17 tracks covering his solo career to date. ‘Very’ starts off with a deftly picked acoustic in a Gothic Country Blues style called ‘All Hallows Eve’. Lyrically, it paints an eerie picture featuring skeletons dancing on graves, the dead rising, a murder of crows and creatures of the night. The following ‘Frank’ is an electric Blues played at breakneck pace with a mid-song burst of noise which precedes a further gathering of pace before the song implodes on itself. A personal favourite album of mine is 2019’s ‘Come’ and it’s represented here by ‘Numbers Game’, an acoustic strum with mournful cello and the irresistible lines “And we’ve all got an itch we’ve got to scratch, sometimes that itch will become an irritation, And that itch will become a rash, So I’ll keep playing the numbers game, Just to stop myself

going insane”. It’s all delivered in a style that draws comparisons with Bill Callahan’s rich and conversational style. The next couple of tracks show the versatility in his singing with a growling Tom Waits-ian vocal over a shuffling acoustic blues on ‘Woman Got Evil’ while the rather emotive ‘Even’ has echoes of Nick Cave. Tim’s guitar is prominent throughout and on ‘Judy’, as well as several other tracks, his slide guitar is well to the fore. For ‘Broken Bones’, the guitar is given a break allowing the track to be driven by a rhythm section of bass and percussive sounds that appear to made on found instruments and any suitably adjacent surfaces, along with a wandering accordion. The rustic sounding percussion continues on the next track, though this time backed by an increasingly threatening and repetitive guitar adding a little menace to proceedings. Lyrically, there’s plenty to mull over with a raw honesty that comes from within, often from a dark place, as on ‘Caught’ and ‘Twitch’, the latter being one of the more experimental sounding tracks with it’s treated drum sound and foreboding keyboards. The fuzzy guitar and guest vocal from rapper Babar Luck add to its uneasy edginess. A ramped up fuzzy guitar and manic vocal fill up every second of the smidge-under-a-minute ‘Freud’. The album continues to throw in surprises during it’s last quarter, such

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as the drone-like effects and seemingly random drum sound that appears half way through, or ‘Gainesville City Limits’, which sounds as close to a Springsteen rocker as Tim is ever likely to get, whether by accident or design. The final three tracks are all, fittingly - considering it’s his raison d’etre recorded live, highlighting his ability to carry a song with just guitar and voice. By Dave Hammond. ‘Very’ is a compilation which takes in mostly Bluesy tracks from Tim’s album output spanning 2010-20, every song painting a haunting and / or disturbing picture; the album, featuring a generous eighteen tracks, is a worthy introduction into the world of Tim. Even though the songs were written over a period of about ten years, this feels very much like a journey, arduous at times but, never the less, well worth the road trip. So, strap yourself in; it’s a bumpy ride and there’s no suspension on this jalopy! Compilation opener ‘All Hallow’s Eve’ is a haunting slow trudge through a swamp to the crossroad, Robert Johnson style, with visions of the dead rising up and skeletons dancing on your rotting scrawny body etched into the mind’s eye. This is followed by a juxtaposing ‘Frank’, foot-stomping along as it gargles on razor blades. Third track, ‘Numbers Game’, is a drum and violin-led story ballad of the

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moving on with no regrets variety, but with an itch that still must be scratched, even though it is the seed of your destruction; restlessness personified. The slow and deep Delta Blues of ‘Woman Got Evil’ follows, and very involving it is too, pulling you in and slapping you in the face, you utter bastard! Fifth track ‘Even’ is another gritty ballad, this one about the human condition of fallibility, the distinct probability of fucking it all right up and losing those we love along the way. Deep stuff indeed! ‘Judy’ is about some chick that all the men in town want to do; stung by love, she (ab)uses them as much as they want to use her, not taking no shit from nobody, the sassy bitch! Wallowing in melancholia, ‘Broken Bones’ tells a story of getting over life’s hard-fought battles, maintaining a will of independence; scarred, but defiant. The choppy beat of ‘Spirit’ carries the listener along a rocky road, looking for somewhere to rest your head for the night. Again, with a choppy rhythm, ‘Broke-Ass Blues’ tells of being skint, losing yo-wa wo-man with slide and bottleneck guitar (by the sound of it): Mississippi White Blues incarnate. Featuring the Tourette Boys, ‘Caught’ involves catching a killer, examining vengeance and justice in a tense and haunting way, in some ways reminiscent of the ‘Murder Ballads’ album by Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds

(1995). ‘Twitch’, featuring Babar Luck lending the track some Rap and an Electronic push, is a welcome diversion from the acoustic tunery which preceded. It’s another dark essay on the inner self. Driving bass, electric guitar, drums and shouty, gravelly vocals feature on the punchy ‘Freud’, propelling the track to its all-too-short conclusion. A longer version of this would have been welcome.

a more spiritual level. Yes, this is a sometimes-tortuous quest into the inner self, with all its failings, delusions, stark reality and, not least, defiance, holding up a mirror up to the listener’s face.

‘Unbroken Mantra’ again features the Tourette Boys in this slowly building, but suddenly-ending chunk. ‘Gainesville City Limits’ is one of Tim’s better-known songs, often performed live, which drives nicely along. Relationship issues, and what could be instead of what it is, seems to be the order of the day on ‘Makes No Sense At All Diane’, wishful and somewhat delusional as the end of the affair beckons.

timholehouse.bandcamp.com

By Paul Foden. ‘Very’ is out now on Aaahh!!! Real Records.

www.facebook.com/ TimHolehouseMusic

Recorded live somewhere in the Netherlands, ‘Good Morning Mr. Vampire!’ is a gritty ballad about pushing yourself out of the door and meeting life head-on, whilst ‘On the Roads’ is about finding home, and your place in this world, after spending a lifetime searching for it. I found this compilation, on first listen, a bit of a tough task as it’s not within my usual sphere, but it certainly grew on me with each subsequent listen, finding many parallels within myself, although it would be a stretch to say on

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Agent Starling Taking Flight and Heading for the Stars Dave Hammond reviews ‘Constellation of Birds’. ‘Constellation of Birds’ is the third release in a year from Agent Starling, a band centred around Lou Duffy-Howard (Red Guitars, Loudhailer Electric Company) and Quentin Budworth (Arqa, Celtarabia). Conceived during lockdown, both bring their own skills to the sound of the band, Lou with her distinctive, driving bass and Quentin with his prominent and experimental hurdy gurdy. Despite being largely instrumental with bass and hurdy gurdy prominent, the variety of music and styles is quite astounding. Elements of Dance, Psychedelia, Eastern (both middle and far) mysticism, Drone and Indie Folk run seamlessly through the tracks, presenting a heady and, at times,

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intoxicating mix of songs and cinematic style soundtracks. It’s obvious the main protagonists are serious students of music from many decades (if not centuries!) and the addition of strings, electronic sounds and spoken word only enhances the feeling that, while the music being played is a blend of both old and new, this is a forward-looking album. The versatility of the hurdy gurdy is shown in the first two tracks, the first, ‘Valley to Mountainside’, being enhanced by layered harmonies and scratchy violin in a paean to the beauty of nature. The smell of incense pervades the air. ‘Leave No Trace’ has a trance like beat and a keyboard line that, unexpectedly, evokes memories of The Who’s ‘Baba O’Riley’ (‘Who’s Next’, 1971). The track is quite danceable in a cross-legged, hands in the air kind of style. In keeping with the explorative, as in mixing the old and new, traditional with modern, ‘Hälleforsnäsar’ is an arrangement of an old Swedish folk tune which works perfectly well in adding another dimension to the flow of the album with its more ambient, even ethereal feel. Another string to the bow is added with the spoken word of ‘Paqaratz’ and its diatribe against the current government, which is driven by some rather exotic sounding percussion. More ‘found sounds’ weave their way into ‘Midsommer’, which invokes an earthy spirit of worship with its mix of

hurdy gurdy drone and chant like outro. The next track, ‘Princess Julia’, drags you in with its insistent charm until the final “Have your cake and eat it” releases you, startlingly, from its hypnotic pull. Close call, that! ‘Shadowland’ starts like the most contemporary sounding track on the album, fabulous bassline and vocal from Lou, while the hurdy gurdy played as it is here sounds like the equivalent of a mediaeval synthesiser. The penultimate track, ‘Bridget Cruise’ is a traditional Irish waltz played in what can only be described as a Geisha style and is really rather lovely, while the closing ‘The Master Mason’s Dream’ has a bass line that ascends and descends while a bell tolls, a Cathedral organ chimes and Lou’s spoken word entices us into a world of natural beauty.

The hurdy gurdy is an often heard about, but a less actually heard instrument in contemporary music, so it is fascinating to hear it take such a prominent position in the sound over the course of a full album, proving its ability to be both traditional and modern at the same time. A wonderful achievement.

‘Constellation of Birds’ is out now on DHM Records. loudhaileruk.bandcamp.com/ album/constellation-of-birds www.facebook.com/AgentStarlingUK

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Tears for Fears Emotional Overload Alice Jones-Rodgers reviews ‘The Tipping Point’.

Eighteen years ago, Tears for Fears’ sixth album, ‘Everybody Loves a Happy Ending’ may have seen Roland Orzabal and Curt Smith reunited for the first time since 1989’s chart-topping, Platinumselling ‘The Seeds of Love’, but the further inactivity that followed led many to feel that the title of the album had been prophetic. In 2013, however, the duo reconvened to make a follow up with, at the behest of their management, an array of contemporary co-writers and producers. A full album was recorded, but by 2016, it had been jettisoned, with Orzabal and Smith feeling that it wasn’t representative of who they were. A wise choice, we feel, because even back in the ‘80s, the decade in which they ruled the world with three massive albums (‘The Hurting’, 1983, UK#1 / US#73; ‘Songs from the Big Chair’, 1985, UK#2 / US#1 and ‘The Seeds of Love’, 1989, UK#1 / US#8) and thirteen UK top 40 singles, as well as six US Billboard Hot 100 singles (including two consecutive number ones with ‘Shout’ and ‘Everybody

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Wants to Rule the World’ in 1985), Tears for Fears were a band who never seemed particularly comfortable with playing the Pop star game in the quite the same way as their contemporaries, ploughing a much deeper furrow than most with their often dark and always densely produced explorations of the world and human psyche. Ditching the first draft of their seventh album proved to be a pivotal point for Tears for Fears, with Orzabal and Smith going back to basics, severing ties with their management and sitting down in a room together with acoustic guitars to rediscover the joy of just writing songs without any outside interference. However, nothing in the world of Tears for Fears is straightforward and the second attempt at recording what would eventually become known as ‘The Tipping Point’, was far from plainsailing either. Five songs from the first attempt, many of which were co-written by producer Sacha Skarbek, who the band were impressed enough with to keep on for part of this version of the album, were heavily reworked, whilst over the next few years, five new songs were added. Inspiration for many of the new songs came from Orzabal dealing with the tragic death of his wife of 25 years, Caroline, from alcohol-related dementia in 2017, whilst others commented on either the current state of the world or the duo’s annoyance at their former management. Opening track ‘No Small thing’ sets the

scene for ‘The Tipping Point’ perfectly, starting with Orzabal and Smith gently strumming their guitars, offering an insight into the rebuilding of their relationship and the return to songwriting in its most organic form. There is something of an Americana influence to the first movement of the song before it builds and builds towards a grandiose Beatles-esque orchestral, Psychedelic middle section and coda and eventually sucks itself inside out under the sheer weight of its own emotional gravitas. This leads us neatly into the album’s title track and lead single, which amidst a shuffling drum groove harking back to that of ‘Everybody Wants to the Rule the World’ provides ‘The Tipping Point’s most harrowing account of the final days of Orzabal’s wife, replete with ghostly backing vocals from Smith.

Love’) which ushers in an exquisitely harmonious dual vocal performance and the theme of the strength of a woman in a man’s world which perhaps renders it the sequel to ‘Woman in Chains’ from the same album.

As we move further into the album, it would seem that those sessions with modern day producers were not a complete waste of time, as evidenced by the blips and beats that pervade ‘Long, Long, Long Time’, an otherwise sumptuous and sweetly-sung piano ballad which discusses ageing and the passage of time, but most importantly in the context of this album, how to deal with loss. Meanwhile, most recent single ‘Break the Man’ successfully manages to marry further contemporary influences with a strong sense of classic Tears for Fears, not least with the chiming chord reminiscent of ‘Advice for the Young at Heart’ (‘The Seeds of

Big, bold and euphoric ballad ‘Master Plan’ takes a sly dig at the duo’s former management and their view of them as commodities rather than artistes, before ‘End of Night’ provides a piece of late in the day Pop escapism which almost ventures into Pet Shop Boys territory. It is then left to the beautifully-sung ‘Stay’, previously recorded for 2017’s ‘Rule the World: The Greatest Hits’ but now brought back with a much more lavish synth-led arrangement, to supply a fittingly emotional and heartfelt epilogue to an album which has seen Orzabal and Smith overcome so much to produce a piece of work as timeless as any other in their back catalogue.

‘My Demons’ is the most upbeat and modern sounding track on ‘The Tipping Point’ with its throbbing rhythm similar to Muse’s ‘Uprising’ (‘The Resistance’, 2009) and one that deals with a very modern issue, that of surveillance. ‘Rivers of Mercy’, meanwhile, takes the pace of the album down for a floaty and almost a little too serene piece of romanticism which passes comment on the pandemic, whilst ‘Please Be Happy’ is a lushly orchestrated and endlessly lovely rumination on the depression which fuelled the addiction that led to Orzabal’s wife’s untimely end.

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Eighth Day Magazine Issue Forty-two.

Articles inside

Tim Holehouse Dave Hammond and Paul Foden

Agent Starling Dave Hammond reviews ‘Constellation of Birds’.

Tears for Fears Alice Jones-Rodgers reviews ‘The Tipping Point’.

Maze Interview by Paul Phillips.

Cyrano Review by Alice Jones-Rodgers.

The War of the Worlds

German Shepherd Records Presents: Umbrella Assassins Interview by Bob Osborne.

xPropaganda Alice Jones-Rodgers reviews ‘The Heart is Strange’ and speaks to Claudia Brücken.

Steve Aungle on Billy MacKenzie Interview by Alice Jones-Rodgers.

Hue and Cry Interview by Alice Jones-Rodgers.

The Undertones Interview by Alice Jones-Rodgers.

The Bootleg Beatles Interview by Martin Hutchinson.

John Howard Interview by Dave Hammond.

51st State Interview by Paul Foden.

10cc Interview by Martin Hutchinson.

Bonham-Bullick Interview by Alice Jones-Rodgers.

Holy Holy Interview by Alice Jones-Rodgers.