008 jamey staub & david gross by EntrepreneursRadioShow

THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

EPISODE #8: DAVID GROSS & JAMEY STAUB Intro: You‟re listening to Diamonds in Your Own Backyard. The business owner‟s guide to discovering success, wealth, and happiness within your own business where each week you‟ll hear inspirational stories, strategies, and inside secrets of some of the most powerful small business owners themselves. On the Amazing Women of Power Network powered by Raven International, and now here is your host Travis Lane Jenkins and Sandra Champlain.

Jamey Staub & David Gross Travis: Hi this is Travis Lane Jenkins. Sandra: And this is Sandra Champlain. Travis: Hey Sandra. How are you? Sandra: Oh Travis, I‟m doing great today. How about you? Travis: I am wonderful! Hey, I want to talk to you about something really quick. Sandra: Sure. Travis: Now I know you‟ve been working on your book “We Don‟t Die” and I wanted to propose an idea to you and feel free to say no if you‟re not comfortable with it. What I was thinking is, I‟ve had people ask me when that was coming out. Would you be opposed to putting like some type of button on travisandsandra.com towards someone could maybe get on a waiting list or something and then you can send them a personalized copy or something when it comes out. Sandra: Oh, I actually think that would be a great idea. I had lots of people ask me as well and so all I‟ve said was stay tuned and that would be perfect. Because then actually they‟d get one of the first copies that I receive because the book won‟t be done until closest to winter time. Travis: Yeah, I probably should have asked you, that all fair. Sandra: Perfect. Travis: Anyways, I just thought that would be a good idea, and I keep on forgetting to talk to you about that. Sandra: It‟s perfect.

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Travis: Alright. Sandra: Well I‟m just excited that‟s why because this show is Diamonds in Your Own Backyard and very often we refer to our guest as “rock stars.” Rock singing diamonds, and today we actually have two giant rock stars in the music industry with us, and I am delighted to introduce to you and our listeners to Mr. David Gross and Mr. Jamey Staub and just a little I will let them tell their story. Just a little bit about them, David has spent 25 years as base player. He‟s made a lot of records, he‟s written books and toured around the world and Jamey has been a music producer and a mixer. Check out his website with some phenomenal individuals and bands, he‟s got Everlast, and the Beastie Boys and Michael Stype, of course he was a lead vocalist for REM, and these two amazing gentlemen are out to make a profound difference in the lives of kids and I‟ll let them introduce what they‟re up to. Travis: Very impressive. Sandra: Yes. So gentlemen I would like to welcome David Gross and Jamey Staub to our show. Thanks for being here. Travis: Welcome guys. Jamey: Well thanks for having us. Thank you very much, David why don‟t you take it from here. David: Okay, well let‟s see, we always sound better on tape when you hear about it but yeah, we‟ve really had blessed lives. I started playing music when I was about 3, got into the piano. Unfortunately, the only thing I remember about the piano was piano instructors had really bad breathe. Travis: That‟s memorable. David: I nearly forgotten his name but then, but then I went to a school in New York and started on clarinet at age 7. Then about 2 and half years later my sister took me to see a Hard Day‟s Night. I saw all these girls screaming up on the screen, screaming in the audience, and I said, “I know what I‟m going to do! Sorry Woody Allen!” and immediately, I had to play drums. The problem is you can‟t play drums in a party. Or shall I say I couldn‟t play drums in a party. Travis: Right. David: So, my sister was an incredible musician herself. She wrote songs for the Brooklyn Bridge and made these fans. My father was Vice-President of this band; New Jersey version of Daisy, one of them is family. He ordered her a guitar. So the guitar came in the mail and 4 weeks later, no one ordered it, an electric base came to our house. So my father said to me, if in a month it doesn‟t appear on our charge you can have it. So the next day I went to work. I took it out of the case and started practicing. Before he get home I put it back in the case and tried to make it look as if no one opened the case, and oddly enough a month later there was no charge, so that I‟ve always said my base came G.O.D.

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Sandra: Yes. Travis: Yeah, great story. David: From there I started playing in a typical high school band. I went to Berkeley College of Music, came home and my parents told me they were moving to California by way of Chicago and if I wanted to move that way with them, I should go. I said no thanks New York is where it‟s at, and I got an apartment. I ended up looking for the best job I could have and still play music at night. So I became an over the counter trader for Harris Upham which contains Smith Barney. Now why did I pick that? Markets open at 9:30 and close at 3:30, so I could sleep later in the morning and get to a gig. Fortunately, we had our first recession and I was laid off. So quickly, a young musician with unemployment playing at night within six months on the road with my first band at acoustic we were RCA Records and from there I started doing studio work and playing with other folks and here we are now. Travis: Was that start of that in the early 90‟s date? David: Oh, this was late 70‟s. Travis: Late 70‟s? David: Yeah, I‟m the older guy. Travis: Okay, well I‟m 46. How old are you David? David: I‟m 59. Travis: 59. I would never have guessed it with your picture there. How about you Jamey? Jamey: My age is 49. I‟m just trying to keep up with David‟s good looks. Travis: We‟re not all blessed like David, right? David: I‟ll tell you a funny story, my wife said, “C‟mon we have an 8 year old daughter don‟t tell them how old you are.” I said “I just do it to get them angry.” Sandra: Yeah, tell them a controversy, yeah. Travis: So how did you transition that rough start? A great start when you were a kid but early on, how did you transition into the rock star that you are now? What was your secret for that? David: It‟s basically the same secret I had in business. I don‟t listen to the word „No‟; I keep going, and being in New York and actually coming from New York City gives you an advantage to folks to the city after the early 20‟s and late teens to try and “make it” and also because I had a sister who had done Copyright © 2012, 2013 The Entrepreneur‟s Radio Show

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

very well in the music industry. I knew people right away and it‟s just not an easy transition. You go to a gig, you meet people. In fact, how I started writing books and articles for magazines is I was doing a show one night and this woman comes up to me and asks me “I‟m the editor of a music page, have you read our base article? I said “Yes, they‟re awful.” So that night I started writing for the music page as the base columnist and that‟s how it started. Really, my life is very much like that. Obviously, I stick my foot in my mouth on occasion, but I‟ve learned it‟s much easier to be honest upfront because you don‟t have anything you have to remember. Travis: Yeah, can you imagine a right brainer sticking his foot in his mouth that‟s you know... David: Yeah that‟s candid. Travis: By the way, everybody on this call at least that are interactively talking on this calls are a right brainer. Most of the listeners are right brainer they are business owners as well. I think we all understand the some of the problems that come with being a right brainer we tend to push things a little too much at times. It‟s not only part of our success but it‟s also part of maybe our weaknesses as well. Have you found that to be pretty also David? David: Yeah, there are those moments in time where I seem to be looking at myself as I am talking going did I just really say that? Jamey: David, I say that to myself all the time about you. But it‟s a good thing. David: I‟ll tell you one thing, here‟s the great thing about Jamey, before Jamey my life outside our marriage I say the only ship that doesn‟t sail is the partnership. I am so deep in my thinking meaning I‟m 15 years away. Jamey‟s the one who says “We got to do this today and tomorrow,” and I go “Alright you do that.” I‟m thinking 15 years from now. A perfect match. Jamey: It is a good match. Sandra: Jamey, how did you get your start in music? Jamey: Well, that‟s, I‟ll try not to be as long winded as David. David: That‟s why we have editors. Jamey: Yeah, well let‟s see, I grew up in North Carolina my dad use to play piano. He was a surgeon but he also had a musical side. So I would come home from school and wait for him to get home. He was going to play Burt Bacharach and the popular songs in the 70‟s. He would play piano when I was sort of in the next room and just listen. He probably didn‟t know that I was there but that would turn me on my best friend Pat Tucker played a… was it a trumpet? He‟s now a very accomplished flute, horn, and French horn player in North Carolina Wind Symphony. So at this rate I started playing trumpet. But

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

then I got a hang on to bang on stuff and my parents bought me a drum set. And I started playing drums in the 7th grade. Like David said, I soon learned that the girls like to watch us and my friends play music. So I knew I was in the right spot and at the right time, and we formed a band and like integrate and have it tuned to the prettiest girls on them. Then I had to get serious and studied Physics in college and was recruited by a fraternity house since they heard that I played drums and they needed a drummer. I remembered playing drums for this fraternity house and at that stage I realized music was my calling not Physics and Math. I transferred to University of Miami School of Music in Miami Florida. My mother helped me discover a program called Music Engineering Technology which is a 4 year bachelor‟s degree not only could I play music but I would also learn electrical engineering and mixing and how to come up be a great engineer. So that‟s what why I transferred down there finished that program and moved up to New York. Where I started working in recording studios in the early, late 80‟s and early 90‟s and worked with fresh bands, Pop Academy, RUN DMC, a lot of hip hop was the studio that I end up. It was a big hip hop studio, now this was big records but at that time being a boy from North Carolina, I don‟t have any idea who they were, what was going on, I just listened to the lyrics I thought, “Wow, this is pretty powerful statement this guys were making.” Not even knowing that I was working on Platinum records. Sandra: Wow! Jamey: And so, and so that was my, that‟s where I broke my teeth or what was that saying? Travis: Cut my teeth. Jamey: Cut my teeth and then from there became labels and work with a lot of artist and at the same time played with rock bands around town. Tried to make it on my own but ultimately what works for me was engineering and mixing and that‟s where I‟ve been ever since. The thing that I wanted to say that forged my relationship with David and the whole music industry. David: Not wanting to be long winded I trust? Jamey: It changed a lot. I‟ve learned that you have to adapt to succeed. But the biggest part of music that I think is important to speak now is the impact that I‟ve seen on young children, on kids. Thinking back how it affected me as a kid. What I said earlier for 3 years and starting in 2008 I was the Director for the Music School of Rock, where we taught kids music through music performance in rock and roll. I would see young kids coming there into the school with no self confidence. The parents would say that they are not doing good in school and after a few months with me and my staff and performing with other children, they turned around and became very self confident and say “Hey, I can do this.” I‟ve learned how to hone my craft and I can work with others and it‟s just amazing how I have seen this young children turn around and become more self confident and they are going to move ahead in life. Travis: Right.

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Jamey: And that‟s what inspired David and I to do what we are doing now. Travis: Jamey, let me ask you, are you a right brainer? Did you start out mostly as a right brainer or a left brainer? Jamey: I set up a fine line to be honest. I think I‟m mostly a right brainer but I‟m also very logical, so I‟m walking that fine line. But I guess you‟re right. I am a right brainer. Yes. Travis: Well everybody as you get older, as you age, you develop both sides more band more. And what I found is everybody starts out predominantly as one or the other. You‟re either a right brain or left brain. Or some people are extreme right and some people are extreme left and then as life goes on when you start developing a balance between the right and the left. As to that normally is the precourser determine the success in your industry. A lot of times it determines your bank account as well, you develop the two together. Some people, I‟m sure you guys have met them are such extreme right brainers that you can‟t count on them to show up on any events right? Jamey: Yeah, you can count that as well, but you know, to go back to what you‟re saying about in my childhood like I said I was in college thinking I‟m going to be a surgeon or I‟m going to be a doctor but then my passion for music took over, and that‟s the direction I went. Travis: Right. Jamey: So that‟s my experience, but yes, I definitely gained in the music business just out of self experience, extreme right brainers who don‟t have a schedule to their life. Travis: Which of you guys are the business mind behind the business here? David: I guess that‟s me. Travis: It‟s you David? David: Yeah. Travis: Okay, and so is it based on the direction you are taking the business? Or do you deal with the back end accounting and things like that? David: I do everything. I‟ll tell you how it all came about. When you are a musician, I did a lot of studio work. One of the things about studio work is you have to be in and out of there quickly as possible. There‟s going to be music in front of you, you better read it fast and you better get out of there, and „time is money‟ according to studio „time is money‟. So, I spent many hours with music in front of me wanting to be one of the best typed reader that I could be. When I started my first business, I went right to the books; I went right to the people that I thought were the ones that were capable of guiding me whether it was a book, a webinar, or a CD. They turn me on to other sources the same way. Ultimately I Copyright © 2012, 2013 The Entrepreneur‟s Radio Show

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

got Dan Kennedy who really transformed my life in so many ways in terms of marketing and what is possible. I think Dan Kennedy is in my mind, I‟ve been thinking about is an extremely right brain. Travis: Yeah, right. David: And so it spoke to me and worked with me. The only thing that was important to me then was self help motivation. Tony Robbins, Tim Shaw, Zig Ziglar -- I wanted to absorb as much as I did in music, which is why earlier musicians make great entrepreneurs, because they are always striving. You‟re only as good as your last performance so you take that metaphor into business as well. Travis: I agree with you, one of the things that I like so much is you guys have a, not only a business, I do want to talk more about the underbelly some of your successes and failures in the music industry because we talked earlier and we all agree that most people are passively involved with music. They buy it, they may go to a concert, they listen to it and that‟s it. They really don‟t think of it as a business and of course you guys have to figure it out and make a living out of something, and fortunately, you get to make a living out of something that you love. But also, one of the things that really made me and Sandra love you guys and we don‟t know you yet is how you‟ve tied in your passion to help kids and that‟s what Jaime talked about a little bit a minute ago. Jamey I know that you will have to go before the interview and before we are completely done but do you want, either one of you can take this stage from here. Do you want to tell us a little bit about of how you guys are making a difference with kids at a very young age? I think it‟s the 1st grade right? David: Yes, yes. Jamey: Well that‟s our plan to start with the 1st grade and I‟m actually going to turn this over to David because as I said I‟m driving, I‟m about to miss my exit and so David would you want to describe our 5 year plan. David: Okay. Jamey: Now„s the good time. David: Sounds good as I said earlier about the self help and such. One of the things about our plan is how do we get kids to learn critical thinking skills and life skills and not know it, so it‟s actually painless, and all of a sudden it lights up their eyes. What Music in Arts USA does is, it takes music programs and creates a goal setting process so that the children will learn a step by step, we call it backward mapping. If week 10 as a performance, what lead you to week 9, week 8, week 7, week 6. What is important so that you will reach your goal? That is what became more important to me oddly enough than the music, was how do we get kids basically open canvasses in the 1st grade and create something that they can use in every aspect of their lives. So, this goal setting component became an important part of it, and one of the people that helped me work on it was a guy named Jeff Gitmac. Who

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has his own website Gitmac.com and he was a neurolinguists programmer, hypnotherapists hooked up with a lot of business folks and he was doing a line of CDs that would sync the brain together. So my thought was, well obviously we can‟t get 1st graders to sit in a room and quietly have their brain synced up holistically, but, if there was a way to utilize some of that with my music program. So, we created this program. So we started in 1st grade. So 1st grade they are using something called the song flute. The song flute looks like it‟s a kazoo. Plastic but it has raised finger holes so fingers that have not much dexterity in them, and just like a recorder. So, you‟re teaching them music on how to set goals. So, this little instrument we pick 3 tunes that they are going to perform in the end of ten weeks; all three songs have lyrics. Now why? Because literacy is an incredible component to the thought process. When you learn the lyrics of a song you actually learn the song more, what I‟m trying to say is you actually learn to perform the song better because you got the melody and the lyrics in your head. So, there is a possibility with it. So that‟s where that begins. Travis: David let me make sure I understand that. So, you‟re saying that if you learn the lyrics when you teach the kids the lyrics to the song it‟s easier for them to remember the notes as well. Is that what you‟re saying? David: Exactly, because now they have started their first language. Music is 2nd in some cases 3rd or 4th depending on where they come from and so for instance, one of my favourite songs is a Duke Ellington called Sea Jam Blues. It has 3 notes. However, the lyrics which they did years later called Down in Duke‟s Place. So, first of all, you play them the instrumental version then you play them the version with lyrics. You give them a sheet of paper with the lyrics on them and they start learning them. Then you teach them basically the 1st note how to hold it and what not and boom! It‟s like a light bulb has gone off, because now, not only are they not going to perform it musically in front of their teachers, peers, and parents we tend to actually make them sing it as well. Travis: Oh, Okay. David: And I think that‟s one of the things that makes what we do different and then a lot of the other programs. Travis: Okay. Jamey: Yeah, And if I can talk about it a little bit more, we‟re not only teaching a kid how to play the instrument, but we‟re teaching them literacy, we‟re teaching them rhythm, we‟re teaching them language, there‟s history involved. Where did the song come from, who wrote it and again what we call the brain swing aspect where you have a goal and you can backward mapping how you are going to achieve that goal and a lot of kids might think. “Oh my god! We have to put up a concert and I don‟t know what to do I‟m overwhelmed!” Well, we‟re teaching them how not to be overwhelmed. Because it‟s very simple, if you just think of your goal and move backwards. Well I gotta to do this, then I have to do this, and we‟re going to provide each student with a folder or notebook. Week 1 here‟s what I‟m Copyright © 2012, 2013 The Entrepreneur‟s Radio Show

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

going to do. You learn how to play C and what I‟m going to do is press one finger on this one hole and then blow, it‟s going to make this note. Then have each week mapped out, they can mapped it out for themselves. So, they are learning how to achieve goals and as well as how to play music and that‟s developing that right brain and the left brain as well. Travis: Well, it‟s problem solving 101. Right? David and Jamey: You got it. Exactly. Travis: One step at a time. Every time when I manage people when they‟re overwhelmed I have them settle down and I say what do you need to do? And the only reason that they tend to get overwhelmed is because they‟re trying to process more than one thing at a time. Jamey: That‟s exactly where were coming from. Travis: Right. David: Just to further echo some of what Jamey was saying Travis, at the beginning you were talking how everyone passively involved in music. I didn‟t want to bring it up then but I have to disagree with you. I‟ll tell you why. Let‟s say you rent a car, and a song comes on that reminds you of your old girlfriend. You would remember exactly where you were, what you were wearing, who you were with, it‟s all parts of the process. Travis: Oh, even the smell at times. David: Just not passive. Travis: Yeah, True, great point. David: Now, I‟ll tell you a little story when we‟re teaching some of the older kids. In the school‟s now it‟s really difficult to do a Christmas show because of our politically correct system. Travis: Right. David: To attempt to teach something like “I‟ll Be Home For Christmas” now this is an interesting song because it really ties in historically. That song was written during World War II. So, when we are going to do this song with our kids, we give them a little history so it‟s World War II. I‟ll Be Home For Christmas, now what if you‟re the mother and you hear that song? How do you feel? What if you‟re the son over in Italy, Japan, and you hear that song? How do you feel? What is your reaction? What if you‟re the sweetheart, the wife, etc... and so on. It‟s so much more than passive. It‟s totally different. And when you bring it to that level, you‟re transforming kids as well because you‟re giving them a different perspective.

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Travis: I completely agree with you. I think another brilliant element to what you guys are doing here is, and this is a shift that‟s happening in marketing and I know you know this because you studied with Dan Kennedy. But so much of the marketing this days is push marketing, they trying to push something on you instead of effective marketing is pull marketing and so a great sales letter puts the medicine in the dessert and I know that there‟s a terrible connotation to it but what you‟re doing is you‟re reaching these kids on a level you‟re getting beyond the superficial stuff. You‟re interesting them and something in engaging them and so now they‟re focused, they‟re committed. That‟s why school doesn‟t work and that‟s why schools broke right now. David and Jamey: Exactly. Travis: People are investing in what they‟re doing. Jamey: Yeah and that starts from the top down. Travis: Yeah, and you know for years I couldn‟t understand. I was a trouble maker kid, I broke all the rules, I did everything I wasn‟t suppose to do and I didn‟t understand that until I got in my 40‟s and I realize that I‟m really a risk taker and if you don‟t challenge me, if you don‟t get me involved , I‟m going to get into something. Jamey: Hey, we should hang out Travis. Travis: Yeah. But you know that‟s what exactly what you guys are getting to the heart of right now. David: Yeah, I agree with Mr. Hartman my 10th grade biology teacher in the middle of I guess it was February of my 10th grade said to me, “Mr. Gross, you‟re not going to amount to anything!” And I picked up my book and walked out and came back in the end of June for the final exam. That‟s basically what happened. Travis: It‟s the same thing. It‟s very similar. David: I‟ll tell you something. Every time really good happens, when I get complemented or something like that. I‟m always thinking about Mr. Hartman. He may have been the best thing that ever happened to me. Travis: Right. David: Which goes back to my Napoleon analogy that I spoke to you about earlier as well. Jamey: That‟s funny David because my Math teacher in 9th grade was Mr. Fatton and he had a horrible breathe. This goes back to the days where the teacher could smoke in the classroom. He would smoke and drink coffee. This was my math teacher in Algebra. One day he kicked me out of class, and I said

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

“Why are you kicking me out of class?” “What did I do?” He said, “You just don‟t care, you‟ve just been Jamey all year.” Travis: Hey Jamey you got your antennae up there? We‟re losing you. David: I bet we‟ve lost him. Travis: We‟re losing you, the audio is really choppy. Jamey: Alright. Well I may have to sign off. Travis: Hey Jamey, We appreciate it. Thanks for taking the time. We‟ll let David take the range from here if you don‟t mind. Jamey: Yeah, okay. Sandra: Thanks Jamey, well talk to you again. Jamey: Thanks very much and I‟ll talk to you, Ok bye bye. Travis: Alright. Take care. David: It is proof positive when they say that cell phones work 24 hours –It‟s just not in a row. Travis and Sandra: Right. Travis: David it took me a long time, so those gothic kids in school, kids that don‟t fit in, those are right brainers. They are seeking their own identity and since no one‟s taken the time to go deep with them and make a connection with them. They‟re going to get in to whatever they get into. David: It‟s funny that you‟re saying that because I‟m thinking of parents. It takes a village stuff that really doesn‟t work for me. It‟s what happens at home, those first four five years that is most important. I have an 8 year old daughter she‟s the most remarkable creature that I have ever come across. I watch her with amazement every day. That‟s how the learning process and I think when Jamey was talking earlier about Physics and Math and about his father who was a surgeon. I‟m thinking about no parent in their right mind back then would want their son and daughter to come home and say “You know what I want to be a musician.” As a matter of fact with that in mind, my father was ready to buy a store for me and after much argument and a few choice words that my 8 year old does don‟t know yet. We discussed it and literally for the next 10 years they would see me on MTV, they‟d see me here, they‟d see me there, at the end after complimenting me on what I did, “So when are you going to get a real job?” Travis: Right.

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

David: And so, It‟s truly yeah, and these goth kids. But who knows what they may get into but that‟s the whole thing. We are negating school and possibilities. We are negating possibilities and that‟s just terrible, and we have to do something about it. Which is why I started with Jamey with Music and Arts USA - Here it‟s no longer about the money, it‟s about we got to change things and we need to change it fast and I think it‟s good. Travis: I think that it‟s well known that the school systems are no longer working. The way we‟ve been doing things for years is just not working anymore. And so we‟re coming to a point where a paradigm, well I think the paradigm shift has already happened and how people are learning and how we‟re reaching out and connecting with our kids. Every week, me and my daughter go and paint and 20 minutes into the painting, all of the topical shallow conversation tends to go away, and we connect on a deep level. David: How wonderful! Travis: And she‟s telling me her opinions about the colour and what we‟re going to paint. She‟s 13 and like you, she‟s just an incredible kid because I took the time to read to her and I make sure that her right brain. I read with as much enthusiasm and emotions that it was like she was watching a TV show every night when I put her to bed. And so now my daughter is in honours classes and straight A‟s and everything and it comes easy to her because you have developed that in her early on. Whereas I have a 27 year old son that I did not do that with and I regret it because I was too young and I didn‟t understand it. So I feel like that‟s proof positive that if you get on them young and you teach them those things you can really make life much easier. Almost everything comes easy to her. David: That is excellent. That is excellent. You know Travis that is the key. We want to come easy to them because we wanted a better world. That‟s all there is to it. Travis: Right. Sandra: Can I jump in here? Travis: Sure. Sandra: Well I noticed there is so much gold that I just, some of it is just there repeating like one Jamey had said and you have said that just as musicians you have been in so many interviews and auditions and stuff. Like you‟re used to hearing no and you don‟t give up. I really want the listeners to take that one on. Because we hear No so often that a lot of times No means No, done, No just means next. You know that and it‟s just distinguishing your steps with backward mapping and overwhelm. I mean that, I believe business owners, entrepreneurs anybody can use because I know myself, I get intimidated somehow sometimes with big projects or with big people that have it so much more than I do, thinking that I could never but instead of that, let‟s go there in my mind and then just take the steps back. So, I

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

want to thank you for that. You‟re talking a lot about kids and the brain and our brain and as you know the whole neuroplasticity of the brain, how the brain can really change. People that would say, “When are you going to get a real job?” I think a lot of the parents and grandparents that we have, their neuropatterns and habits of thinking goes so deep as to music isn‟t a real job. So YK there‟s nothing wrong with them. That they are speaking from their experience and.... David: And another thing Sandra not to interrupt you. Sandra: No, it‟s okay. David: I think that from their age. World War II, Depression, The Korean War. They‟re in some cases some of them or maybe most of them never did what their passion was. I think that, here they are giving us the opportunity to do what we want but when we do what we want. We‟ll wait a second you shouldn‟t do what you want! Travis: Right. I think the generation comes from a scarcity mindset. David: Precisely. Yeah. Sandra: The last thing I want to bring up to everyone is the gift that music can really be even to an adult. When I was a kid I was forced to take with picking an instrument. Forced to play the organ, and I didn‟t want to and I didn‟t like it, didn‟t want to do it because I was forced into it. There was no joy there and then tied that on to something else. Learning how when I was in gym class trying to hit the ball or throw the ball, I couldn‟t do that, I had bad vision and I thought and I‟m always had it all my life that I was uncoordinated. So I‟ve held that as reality and fast forward until about I don‟t know, maybe five years or so ago, my sister said You want to play catch with me should with baseball, and that and gloves. I still don‟t know I can‟t throw and I can‟t catch and she says when did you ever come up with that? And I actually remembered being an eight year old and have somebody make fun of me calling me four eyes and I couldn‟t do it. Well, what happened was she said try it and I couldn‟t throw that ball right into her gloves. And I could catch it no matter how far away we were. All of a sudden my mind went maybe I‟m athletic and so I ended up taking on running a marathon and I ended up walking one but I did my 26.2 miles. Why I‟m bringing up this conversation because I think a lot of people love music and I think David is, would there be anything available to an adult by maybe stretching their brain a little by getting into music not maybe necessarily playing a musical instrument but could that be an asset for their brain. David: I would say, easy playing in musical instrument Sandra because there is no timeframe. People can pick up an instrument in their 30‟s, or in their 50‟s, in their 60‟s. There is no timeframe and there is no reason not to. I tell you a funny story, you were talking about forced into an instrument. When August, my daughter was three, she picked up her favourite violin and got a great sound on it. So I need to be of course, I get her violin. Takes lessons -- she‟s not interested and then we buy her an

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

electric piano and plays it, takes lessons, not interested. Now she has an electric guitar. My wife is saying, “How can you keep her playing musical instruments, she is not interested.” You know what she is interested in, she rides horses. Today she has a skating exhibition at 6 o‟clock. She does gym, she is a kinetic child. This is how she is playing her instrument and not everyone has to do these things, all I am saying is, at a certain point in time at first grade, if everyone plays a song, everyone plays a recorder, everyone‟s change. You are going to get some extraordinary benefits and I didn‟t end up being Bruce Springsteen but you know what? Who cares? Travis: Well, I agree with you. It is a gate way to confidence. David: Great way of putting and I think I might steal that. Travis: Yeah, feel free. I just think, you give the kid, all of us come from a generation, the world that was in a whole bunch of nurturing. And now I think that we probably over nurtured kids in some aspects, everybody gets a trophy when they play sports that they are not crazy about. But there are a lot of at-risk kids and even just non-at-risk kids that could use a little confidence out of the starting game. And I realize it is okay to think your own thoughts and be a little different and then let their own passions come bubbling to the top. Just like your young healthy little daughter has done, she gets Dad plays the guitar and plays in bands as rock star but her thing is horses. But she is confident enough to be clear and make that decision, right? David: Right, and you know when we were talking earlier too, everything we were talking about really relates to entrepreneurs. Travis: Oh yeah, it is the grass roots of being an entrepreneur. David: Without a doubt and I think in terms of the listeners that it is the passion, if you are really going to be an entrepreneur then you really need to do what you really want to do. If I had one critique on all of this or one caviar, study hard. I think that‟s the real thing, I saw that when I was learning to read music. Study hard. You and I were also talking earlier about the nature of entrepreneurship, the hours that I spent in front of a music stand by myself. As they say just beat that way, that‟s where seminar, conference call, webinar, that‟s where a lot of folks can get together and they say “Hey, I‟m not alone with this.” Travis: Right. David: And a lot of people are doing the same thing and I think that‟s important too. Travis: Oh yeah, the tenacity of the underlying element because you are going to be tenacious to get in there soon that time, and you have to also going to be tenacious to overcome those. I view mistakes as testing now and just okay, that one does not work.

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

David: Yeah, yeah. Travis: What are we going to do to make the changes here so it does work? David: Yeah, but then you have to get in to constantly monitoring what is working because you can become complacent. I remember Tony Robins said something about a comfort zone, and what is it, it‟s either inspiration or desperation but a certain point you start looking and oh my god, I‟m enjoying myself but I‟m not moving forward. You got to be, I don‟t believe there has to be a balance because I don‟t think anyone who succeeds in any operation of whatever their doing is balanced. Remember that novel “Magnificent Obsession.” Travis: I‟ve never heard of it. David: It‟s also a movie, but the point is, I think each and every one of us has to be obsessed. Travis: Oh yeah. David: I think there is a way of balancing. Something is not going to balance out and that is just the way it is, and hopefully you find partners and understanding friends and children and such that can understand that this is what I said, “You need to do this.” The end results can be spectacular, but with that in mind once again the caviar starts going really well don‟t stop moving forward. I did for a couple of years things are doing really well. Having a business that goes into the New York City School, that I did, I had to be polite to the teacher. I mean think about it right now, I‟m spending my summer on Cape Cod. Now I‟m still working because I have my laptop with me and I‟m still planning for the fall season however, as an “instructor” or “an owner of an instructional company,” I have this ability to spend time with my daughter and my family and I got comfortable for a few years. I said “Oh, I better start doing something. Travis: Right, so kind of that complacency was setting in don‟t you think? David: Yeah, absolutely. Patting myself on the back that I made that step forward. The nice thing is that sometimes when things like that happen and you start to realize, then you examine what are my passions about now, because if you‟re complacent that means you‟re getting bored. Travis: Right. right, and I‟ve said this several times and I‟ve learned very few things about my victories and I‟ve learned an incredible amount of my losses or some of my incredible failures. I‟ve learned and it has completely opened my eyes, and so, I‟ve gone to several stages of complacency myself. It‟s just not an interesting fun place to be. David: No, no. Travis: Than most people think.

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

David: You were talking earlier, which one of us handles the business whether it was Jamey or me. I find that once again as the “entrepreneur” has got to be hands on all the time. Even if you had an accountant, you‟ve got to be talking to him on a regular basis. You have to continually update yourself particularly when you‟re dealing with children in schools. Rules and regulations, you can‟t let stuff go by and I think most definitely you have to do that in every profession. For every business that you create. Travis: Right. I call that inspecting what you expect. David: That‟s a great way of putting it. Travis: That way everybody is on task. One of the things that made my business very profitable and very easy to run is, one day I sit down and committed several weeks of writing about every single task that‟s done in the company. Even down to the most basic level. So I systematize everything, and I use that for training and then I have everybody follows the system. And so people quit asking me the same question because everybody is trained from the same set of standards, and the business got a whole lot easier. David: Hey, I got a question for you. What are your 3 or 4 favourite books? Regarding business that sound familiar to me. Travis: Yeah, Think and Grow Rich is one of my absolute favourites. 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, and Psycho Cybernetics was one of my favourite books, one of my first books those would probably be my top three. David: Hmm. Interesting. Interesting. Travis: How about you Sandra? Sandra: I think I‟m going pass in answering the question. I‟m like the deer with the headlight. I have a ton of books but right now nothing is coming to mind though. Travis: Well, David what‟s yours? David: Well obviously, Think and Grow Rich is important but I would also say that 16 Laws of Success also by Napoleon Hill is important to me as well. Psycho Cybernetics, a great book there‟s a new version of that by Dan Kennedy worked on apparently. Travis: Yeah, he bought the rights to that book. David: Yeah, and I think he dealt with Maxwell Maltz‟ wife in regards to certain things. That too is a great book. The things with systematizing, I study with Michael Gerber‟s E-Myth. Travis: Yeah, I‟m familiar with that.

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

David: The whole concept systematizing, absolutely in terms of asking questions and having nobody to ask them to you, in essence, he just passed away but Chet Holmes‟ The Ultimate Sales Letter was a fabulous book. Travis: I‟ve read that book also. You talked about another great story and I don‟t know if you can share who it is, but you guys have reached an epic level. That‟s a very something drastic happened in the last minute that affected the success of all of you. David: Well yeah, basically I was in a band that sold three million records and right before we were going to win an award or presented with an award the lead singer sort of freaked out and we all flew back and at that moment I realize, I don‟t want to be in a situation where anyone else was controlling my life. Travis: Right. David: So I sat at home and tried to figure out what I want to do next and I thought I was going into this business. This is a great story, so my agent called me, they‟re looking for has been rock and rollers to be VJs in VH1. “You want to audition? I said “Sure, I‟ll do that.” That was another thing I learned from auditioning. When he said “Can you sing high?” and I‟d go “Yes.” David: Although, I think they actually meant that I sing high. Travis: The word high. No kidding you sing while you‟re high. David: Moving right along, I‟m sorry I‟m losing my train of thought because of... Travis: You were talking about when the lead guy goes off the deep end. David: Yeah it happens and you can‟t do anything about it but you change who you are. Like I said with the VH1 thing, I‟m there auditioning and I will tell you that my screen test is being used nationwide at what not to do in a screen test. Sandra: Oh no. Travis: That‟s awful. David: I was awful but, remember that Napoleon Hill said “to succeed at something better?” They were talking to me about „Save the music‟ and they were talking to me about kids and music programs, been cutting in school and how important it is. And oddly enough at the same time this other record and I were looking for spaces in Manhattan to set up a club/ theatre where we bring students during the day to see musicians and ask some questions. The whole thing is pretty interesting, and I actually was given the number of the Head of the Arts for the entire city in New York. Nothing like starting at the top, right? And so, while I did not become a VJ, I started this business and going into schools for 15 years. Copyright © 2012, 2013 The Entrepreneur‟s Radio Show

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Now we started the not for profit because more important than ever we get this in and one of the reasons were doing the not for profit which we didn‟t mention earlier. I believe it is incumbent upon everyone to support it. Not only does it help pay for the teaching artist but if we want to better society, we better get our hands out of our pockets and do something right. Travis: Well said. David: And so one of the things that‟s great with Music and Arts USA is an advisory board of some of the top rockers. Where do you get the base player from Pantera and the bass player who played with John Coltrane on the same advisory board. I mean think about it, now that it‟s historical looking into that. The fact that we got people from all areas in music like the guitar player from Joan Jett, Meatloaf‟s bass player. We have all these fabulous musicians on board who is going yet this is important we have got to do something about this. When you think about it if everyone gave 35 dollars and 20 thousand people and 700 thousand dollars in donation it‟s remarkable. It‟s not a lot of folks and it‟s just building, as it says, build your tribe and this tribe I want to train national. So once we get it set up in New York and things get going we‟ll do Boston, then we start moving west. It needs to be done. Sandra: David what do you see ultimately, you‟re starting off in New York. In the big scheme of things, what do you see happening 20 years from now because you have started it this way? David: Every major urban centre will have something like this, if not this. That‟s what I see. Sandra: And what kind of adults will those children grow up to be? David: The Kids that don‟t really want to be controlled will actually think for themselves and perhaps create the greatest products, services, medicine, who knows what? That‟s the beautiful thing about creativity, everyone thinks creative, artists, musician, dancers. Steve Jobs was creative. Bill Gates was creative. Andrew Carnegie was creative. Travis: Yeah, I think the by product is a confidence, creative, capable individuals that makes a difference. David: Yeah. Sandra: You‟ve given them that confidence level so that they may think for themselves. And not get caught in the wrong pack of kids and go the wrong tunnel. David: Exactly, and also the one area that we haven‟t mention is we are going to have a good time, we„re going to have fun. Sandra: Oh yeah what‟s better than that? David: Yeah. Copyright © 2012, 2013 The Entrepreneur‟s Radio Show

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Travis: Well I personally love music. I have an entire stage in my house David with an entire full blown TV system to where people come in amplifiers everyone comes in and plugs in, we play and sing. David: That‟s excellent. Travis: So I‟m deeply connected with music. There‟s something a great business lesson here that I think we can go a little deeper on and we‟re running close on time here. I want to point it out. You would explain the scenario. You guys put all this time and effort into this band and then the lead person goes off the deep end of course it was just for an award but it sounds to me you have solved the craziness in that business model. That your income, your livelihood and everything was predicated on an outside forces which you didn‟t like. David: Right. The metaphor really is you know how Brian Tracy always says “You Are Responsible.” I served my responsibility and that never happens again. Keep your make up test until you figure it out. Travis: Yeah, David that is where most people get it wrong in their business is they set up their business contingent on a great economy; a booming ex ons moving 300 people in and we‟re going to survive. That‟s not how the way you set your business back. You have to set up a business that is successful from a multiple of sources rather than one. That way you‟re not solely relying on one source of clients, revenue or whatever it is. If you set your business up in a way diversified, maybe not in products but how people find you or whatever it is. You‟re no longer exposed to those outside elements like that so that‟s why that story really hit home with me it makes absolutely 100% sense to me that you saw how crazy it was when it happened. David: Yeah but I think there‟s something else too that you can add to that, and that is more millionaires were made during the depression than any other time and that really goes to the heart. There is no right time to have a business. All times are the right time. Travis: Right. David: Exactly. That is the key, that‟s the real key to me. I mean your diversification is great. You got a guy who is an accountant. He is making a great living as an accountant but its just him. He hires someone else. Pretty soon he‟s running an organization of 10 or 15 accountants. Nothing‟s really changed except his model and he ended diversified. Travis: Right. David: He‟s got more people doing it for him. Who knows how many billionaires were going to find after this so called recession is over. I‟m not going to participate in this recession some famous business person said that I don‟t remember who.

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Travis: I know, I heard one guy say it that I was training with. I think several people have said that. That‟s also the credo of Abraham Lincoln he said “Today, you dig a ditch. Tomorrow you‟ll hire someone to dig that ditch and after that you‟ll hire a team to dig a large number of ditches. And so he‟s basically illustrating the brilliance of this country. That you can come up with this idea a concept you can figure out how to get people to pay you for that service and build from there. Is that exactly what you‟re talking about? David: Without a doubt and what better place on earth than here to do it? Travis: Amen to that. David you and I are from the same mindset my friend. I absolutely enjoyed the time with you. I want to connect to you on Facebook and stay in touch and see if we can help further your cause along the way that Sandra and I are connected to a lot of people. What‟s the best way to find you? Say our listeners wants to come find out more about your websites and what you‟re up to. How can they find you? David: That‟s the best place would be www.musicandartsusa.org Travis: Okay. David: Not only can they read about our mission and all that other stuff. There‟s a place that they can email me and Jamey as well, and find out where we‟re at and how we‟re doing. I appreciate and obviously Jamey did too you having us on. It‟s wonderful to spread this; I think it‟s really important. Travis: You guys are on an important mission. Sandra: Because you can make a difference in millions of lives. Travis: Something that we really need. Are you on Facebook also? David: Yes, yes you go to the Music and Arts USA Facebook page. Travis: Okay. Sandra: We‟ll find that and we‟ll put links to your site to on our website travisandsandra.com, absolutely. David: You guys are doing a great thing too, this is illuminating to so many people and that‟s a good thing. Travis: Yeah, so many shows about business only talk about the success of the business and very rarely do they go to the underbelly of all the trials and tribulations and obstacles that they had to go through to get there. And also a lot of times, the good that those guys that are doing it or how they‟re giving back is not much really the topic either. That‟s what we want our focus to be.

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

David: It‟s perfect. Travis: One of the things that I wanted to do a little bit of housekeeping. I know a lot of you guys are listening to us through your Facebook, you‟re finding the program through your friends, and on iTunes but the main place, the best place to go is at travisandsandra.com then enter your contact information if you look on the right hand side there will be an area that you can enter your name and email and what will happen is we will send you updates to the new shows. You can also connect with me and Sandra on Facebook and Twitter there and Sandra has been talking about the video for the back story of Diamonds in Your Own Backyard which is a great story of discovery after searching the world over for diamonds that this guy find that were actually in his own backyard. So obviously the metaphor is a lot of times great stuff is just right there within your reach you just don‟t realize it, right? So Sandra, were you going to say something? Sandra: Yes I will Travis, as a matter of fact I will. Travis: I‟m putting a little on pressure on her. Sandra: I feel it. That‟s okay were making a difference and David I know that we‟ve discussed business owners often feel like a solitary thing, we do really want to thank you now that you‟re part of our community no one has to feel alone in this. And what an awesome guest you and Jamey have been and I‟m so intrigue by everything you‟re up to and would love to get involved and find out more and really spread what you‟re doing with others. David: Well thank you. I appreciate it, and to echo what Travis was saying “Success is always just a decision away.” Sandra: I love that. Travis: David you‟re rock star on many levels not just on music and you know your stuff in business too and I love that about you. David: Well thank you.

End of Interview Travis: Alright guys that‟s all for now. I will talk to you on the next episode. Sandra: Yeah, thank you everybody. Tune in for the next one.

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

How We Can Help You We know that finding someone that you can trust online today is hard and that so many “so called gurus” are self-‐appointed and have never really even done what they teach you to do. That‟s exactly why we created the Double Your Profits Business Accelerator. This is an exclusive offer for our fans at a fraction of its normal cost. Here's what to expect. We'll Schedule a 'One on One' private session, where we'll take the time to dive deep into your business and tell you what is missing, so that you can have your best year ever! We'll do this by performing a S.W.O.T. Analysis. This tells us your Strengths, Weaknesses, Opportunities and Threats within your business. This will be an eye opener for YOU, for several reasons, however some of the most common reasons are. As the 'Business Owner' it‟s difficult to see the big picture of your own business because you‟re in the middle of a daily management. And you are too emotionally involved to completely impartial. This is a common problem for EVERY business owner. It doesn‟t matter if you are a one-man army, or an army of 150, the problem is still the same.

Travis Lane Jenkins Business Mentor-Turn Around Specialist Radio Host of The Entrepreneurs Radio Show “Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs That Grow Your Business"

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