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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

EPISODE #30: JAMES CLEAR Travis interviews James Clear in this episode with whom they share valuable insights on creating and maintaining your online business in your own terms. James, a successful entrepreneur, is the CEO of Passive Panda, an online company which helps people create business strategies that allow you to earn more money, time, and freedom through business networking and entrepreneurship. James and Travis also talked about various topics such as the importance of writing in attracting your customers through social media and websites like Twitter and Facebook. Email marketing was also discussed which is vital and can even make or break your business. With that in mind, budding entrepreneurs and established businessmen alike can profit and gain a lot of insight from this episode.

James Clear – Passive Income Travis: Hey, it's Travis Lane Jenkins, welcome to a new episode of Diamonds in Your Own Backyard. Sandra Champlain is my co-host, unfortunately cannot be with us today. She's still in the center of Daytona International Raceway for a few weeks, tending to 25 race teams, so Sandra, as always, I know you're listening, we miss you, get back to us as soon as possible. Today on the show, we're talking about a multiple of streams or a way to create a multiple streams of income that provide, of course, more money, time, and freedom for you as an entrepreneur, which obviously is the main goal or some connotation of the main goal of really all of us entrepreneurs. Now, before I introduce you to our incredible guest today, I want to ask you if you've enjoyed this free podcast that we'd create for you. Help us to reach more entrepreneurs and make a difference in their life by going to iTunes and posting a comment and rating the show, and this will let us know that what we're doing matters to you. It'll help us reach more entrepreneurs and help them connect with the incredible wisdom and advice that each of our guest come on the show to share. Now, like I said the context of each and every show, which is, it's our objective to give you a seat right next to us in a personal, as if it were a personal conversation between the four of us, me, Sandra when she's here, you, and our guest. Just talking so, that you're part of that conversation with, or you have access to some of the most brightest entrepreneurs and thought leaders in the world. People that are at different stages of their journey in their own business. Each one of these guest have found success themselves at some level and want to help you by sharing what they know. So everyone that we talked to has found success on some level of what they teach. And so it's important that you know, it's taken us years and lots of money to get access at this level

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

through personal relationships that we've built, with masterminds, and events, and those relationships that we've built have referred us to many of the guest who are on the show with us today. So, let me tell you a little bit about our guest, James Clear. He has been featured by U.S. News and World Report, American Express, Yahoo! Finance, Life Hacker, and the Huffington Post, along with dozens of mainstream media outlets on the topic of, of course, creating multiple streams of income that provide you more money, time, and freedom. James is the founder of Passive Panda, that focuses on three core strategies that I'll give to you or I'll let him share with you. So without further ado, welcome to the show James. James: Hey, thank you so much, I'm happy to be here. Travis: I appreciate you taking the time out and I definitely want you to teach some of the strategies that you share and you've actually used to build your own business. But in my experience, what I found is most people really don't care what you know until they know that you care, and I think the best way to get to know you more personally is understanding how you got started and what put you on this journey to where you're at today and what put you in the position to teach people what you're teaching. James: Sure, yeah. I'd be happy to give you the brief run-down, the hella, the 2-minute back story, does that sound good? Travis: Yeah, right. James: Well, I've always been focused on health and fitness, I was an athlete for most of my life, and I always cared about that. So at the end of, I was a bio-mechanics major, and undergrad. So at the end of undergrad I was trying to figure out what's the next step I'm going to take, where am I going to go from here. I was considering medical school or GC program and didn't really know which way I wanted to go and so I decided, I'll go to business school because no matter what I do that'll be useful, it‟ll be important, something I should understand, I don't have much training on that. So I went and got my MBA and while I was there I actually didn't learn very much about what I'm doing right now. I learned a lot about the corporate world but the most useful thing that I learned was from my post as the graduates of then the „Center for Entrepreneurship‟ and so my role there was to study venture capital investment in the region, reach out to a lot of entrepreneurs who were starting their own exciting businesses. And so that was sort of where I got into the entrepreneurship world, and so this is a pretty neat vehicle to do something cool with your life. And so, I've started seeing that more and more, and at the same time I was working in an orthopedic practice, and I really enjoyed that. Like I said, I had been interested in health and medicine before that and I saw, and I was like, yes, I could definitely see myself being in that position in the future. But I also

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

saw a lot of doctors who, they would get out of med school, they have staff all their loans to spend a couple of years doing that, and they will cram andsay, this doctor has a big house and a nice car so I'd like to get a big house and a nice car. And then it sort of perpetuates itself to the point where they have a job that's helping a lot of people and they're making a lot of money, but there's sort of this „golden handcuff‟ issue where they feel locked into working hours at the working, and going back to work every day and coming into the hospital, and doing this almost so they can keep the lifestyle up and not because they're pursuing something that's like pulling them in. And I never wanted to get to that point. As I'm looking at that one end, and the entrepreneurship on the other end, I figured, well one great way to go about this would be building a business of my own that could provide me with freedom and excitement and the ability to explore and check out other cool things around the world, and use that as a vehicle to pay for medical school if I decided to go back. And so that was how I got started, that was a little over 2 years ago and it's been great ever since. So we can dive in to the details of that, but that's what really got me going. Travis: Well, there's a couple things that you said, that's a great story and the reason why I think it's a great story beyond the fact that of course it's obviously your personal journey as a--there's a lot of wisdom that's coming from what you're saying because you and I were talking before we started the show and I've been in masterminds with a lot of doctors and you're exactly right, they get--I think you've even called it kind of a lifestyle, they get wrapped up in this fancy house, fancy cars. And a lot of people view doctors as someone that really has made it, and I don't want to trivialize a hundred thousand, a hundred and twenty thousand dollars worth of income. But that's really, the normally the full extent or about how much most doctors make. Now of course that varies within specialty, and it's really, I found in my own experience, no matter how much you make it very easy to adjust your lifestyle to spend all of it, right? James: Oh, absolutely. And I almost don't even feel like it's about the money as much as it is about freedom and control. Travis: Being a doctor or an entrepreneur? James: Oh well, as far as like the doctor's situation, because in many cases they may be making great money but do they have the choice to pursue what they really want to pursue. I don't know, everybody's different but for me if I've done the same thing for 5 years or 10 years, I'm ready to move on and try something new and like really push myself and stretch myself, and so I think a lot of times if you just continue to have to go in to the same place or at the hospital or wherever every day, and don't have the ability to really--your hands are tied, so to speak. You can't pursue any project that you wish. That locked people a little bit, so as a result, and sometimes times could journey with the system because maybe--I mean they are intelligent people and if you want to pursue great things, that you want to try

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

new things but they feel locked, they feel restricted then a lot of times that takes away a little of that fulfillment, I suppose, where you can get from the job, and then obviously money as well, but I would say that's also... Travis: I think it's a multiple components because I believe the majority of doctors that I spoke with and now that I know that are friends of mine went into it to make a difference as well. They want to help people. And also this prestige, there's several elements, it's a very respectable way to make a living and so it's all of those things but further down the road, when they get there, they find that they're a victim of their own success because of exactly like you said, they're forced to do the same routine every single day. And it's also, not a very scalable for most doctors if you want to double your income. Normally they have to work twice as many hours, or grow a practice to where they can delegate some of that stuff out. But I think that some of the things that you're--the issues that you're talking about there. But the other thing that really floors me is how can you give an MBA and it really not apply to you. I believe I know this answer but I want to hear it from your side. How can you get an MBA and it not really apply to business? James: Well, it's not because the degree is invaluable or the teachers aren't great. They were, I went to a great program, I had great teachers, there's nothing wrong with that, it's just that it's tailored to a specific type of job. And the other thing is that—it‟s going to be a banker, going to corporate finance, it's great, an MBA would be great for you. If you want to start an online business, not as much. And one reason for that is because there's typically a 10 to 15 year delay in what is taught in most schools, this is usually regardless of subject, compared to what is happening in the real world. And it makes sense because a lot of the professors that I had, they had wonderful business experience but the last time that they were leading a company or working in business was 10 to 15 years ago. And so they could teach us everything that worked really well for them but that's a decade or more old at this point. And so as a result, I mean, think about social media and blogging, in 2005 those weren't even really around, they were just in their infancy if they were around. That's less than 10 years ago, so as a result, many of the tools that I'm going to talk about using today weren't even available for my professors to use. So they can't teach those things because they don't know about them. Travis: Right, well said, and I think, I believe that the majority of people don't realize what it is that you just said, even if they want to be, and correct me if I'm wrong here, even if someone, say a kid's going into college and it's like, "Okay I want to be an entrepreneur but I'm going to go to college because, of course, that's what I wanted to do as a child and that's what my family wants me to do." Isn't it a common misconception or misperception that you'll get an MBA and they get out and start your own business or, I'm off base? James: Yeah, I don't really think, an MBA is not required to start a business by any means, and I would say that the majority of successful entrepreneurs I didn't that's haven't, don't have any degree in that Copyright © 2012, 2013 The Entrepreneur‟s Radio Show

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

and, honestly, for me it was a really big benefit because I was exposed to other entrepreneurs to Center for Entrepreneurship, and it gave me time to think on my--figure out what step I wanted to take next, but it wasn't a benefit--and now obviously it's a benefit because of all my classmates and people like that, but it wasn't a benefit because of what I learned in class. Travis: Right, okay. That definitely make sense. And so, now, we have a conversation for start-ups or we have a conversation, some of what you teach because I know you're teaching what is actually happen to you. So is this a start-up conversation or is this a conversation for existing business owners also. James: To be perfectly honest, I think, the things that I-- and I'm not sure what you strictly want to focus on. But the things that I have in my head right now, the email marketing, the copy writing, things at that nature, those can be beneficial for anyone in business. Especially for any start up or a seasoned entrepreneurs. If you get those things handled, then you would explode your business online. Travis: Yeah, I agree with you. Well, where I'm coming from is, number one, I want this to be just organic and let's just take it anywhere that we want to. I know that the 3 core things that you teach, can you start there and tell us what those 3 core things are? James: Sure, so If you want to earn more money this is one thing that I thought about on Passive Panda a lot. You have a couple of different options, right? So the first is that you could--freelancer, so you can sell your time for money and I think you gone much well versed on that, based on your experiences than I am. But it's a great option for people who are looking to get started because there's-you basically need no permission to start and you can get started very quickly because you don't really have to have a business card or anything of that sort, right? Travis: Or anything hanging on the wall, giving you permission, right? James: Yeah. You don't even need a product, you just need a paying customer, that's all you need. Travis: Right. James: So, that's a great way to get started and that's usually--if someone's looking to earn money quick, that's usually the first thing I would suggest. The second thing is just employment, right? So you're earning powers often limited as an employee, but there are plenty of ways to expand up on that is you're selling salary negotiation or just handling interview skills and even promotion, all those types of things. Now, I tend to focus on the path left. It's very powerful but it's also very limited in many ways. And then the third, and the one that I love the most is entrepreneurship. If you think about, and I'm sure I don't need to tell your audiences that if you think about that, if you think about the wealthiest people in the world, they're all entrepreneurs, and they're all people who created things. It's very rare that you

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THE ENTREPRENEURâ&#x20AC;&#x2122;S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

would find someone that has extreme wealth that didn't create it. 95% of the people who enjoy that type of wealth or type of lifestyle, that is so often put on a pedestal for good or bad, those people created their own wealth, and entrepreneurship is the greatest vehicle for doing that. So, I'm happy to focus on whatever you want to but entrepreneurship is typically where I spend most of my time in teaching people. Travis: Yeah, it's those three core things that had me on the fence. Now, our listeners are both existing entrepreneurs that want to take their business to the next level, and then people that are entrepreneurs in spirit and they want to make that jump, and so that's one of the reason why knowing you three core things that you teach, I knew that it could kind of pivot anywhere. Let's go in the direction--since majority of the people listening are entrepreneurs, let's go in the direction of the skill set that you were talking about related to entrepreneurs if you don't mind. James: Sure. There are always subsets within the particular things that we talk about and so for entrepreneurship the subset that I'm most focused on and my experiences most tailored to is online business, online entrepreneurship, and so, specifically all the businesses that I run, Passive Panda included, focus on blogging, email marketing, and driving traffic for free. So I don't really talk about paid traffic strategies, and I don't really focus on buying leads or buying customers, instead I try to generate all of those through viral marketing, online marketing, social media marketing, and then use email as the vehicle to deliver value and to deliver a product or service eventually once trust is built. And at that point then I have paying customers. So I'm happy to break down that process and detail wherever you'd like to focus on it, that's the typical area within entrepreneurship that I tend to focus on. Travis: Well you know, a great example of that is here we're doing Earn Media, this interview doesn't cost you anything and, of course, we become aware of you, first some other friends that we're a mastermind with. And so, a classic example of how you're writing within and the things that you're doing or organically bringing people into a process of getting to know like I trust you, right? James: Absolutely, and that process is critical for building trust which you just mentioned. But it's also critical for a valuable business skill sets, most specifically copy-writing. Anything that any methods that you distribute to your customer whether it's through words, whether it's through a speech, whether it's through a video, it all starts with the written word on the page or the script that you write. Somebody has to come up with those words before you deliver them to you audience, and if you can understand what drives good writing and specifically what drives to copy-writing, to get people to take action, then that's a skill set that will serve you literally everywhere you touch your customer, everywhere you interact with your customer.

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So as a result I spend a lot of time writing, not just to build that trust, which I think is critical and for me, honestly right now, the thing I'm most focused on is building that community. So that is number one, but building the skill of writing, the skill of copy writing, and understanding how words can drive people to take action is a critical focus of that as well. Travis: Right. First of all I agree with you 1,000% because I write so much in my business, almost every direction, I'm writing, I'm writing the intro to this, I'm writing the description of the show, I'm writing all of these different things, and for the longest I didn't tend to that skill set and it hamstrung me in manner of speaking because I had to look for help outside to kind of bring this whole thing together. James: Well, can I give you a couple of examples? Travis: Yeah, sure. James: So, the first is that--if you think about it, for the most part no one listening to the show and you and I--our businesses are not known the way that Apple or McDonald's is known, right? We just don't have that bore hand equity the same way that Coca Cola does. And so as a result, the products that we're talking about and many cases are not known but the customer sort of coming to buy them. It's not top of mind the way that many major brands are. And so as a result there's very little expectation about the product. There's very little built in relationship with the product and time, and what that means is that a lot of times people don't really know what they're getting in the product, so they are actually buying. When someone makes the choice to buy your product or service,it's very rare that they're actually buying what you're offering, what they are buying are the words on the page. They buy your sales page, they don't buy your product because they're not familiar with it. And so, if you can get the copy writing handled, that's how critical the words from the page are, that's what people purchase or the sales page, not the actual product. And so as a result--I've seen this in my own business, not just on sales pages but also in email marketing blasts or just email they send down to my list. The difference between like, writing an enthusiastic, well-written email, and just writing an informational list, a couple list of facts is huge. If you can get people emotionally invested into the product and service that you're providing, the likelihood of them taking action is so much greater, and this is the same as that product. Even if you just listed everything at those ABC, if it doesn't touch on the emotional pinpoints that they have, then your likelihood of selling that product is so much less. And so, as a result getting that handled, developing skill of writing--it's really critical, I know I've been hammering on it for a couple of minutes now, but... Travis: No, it's the differencebetween a successful and non-successful salesman isn't it? He's taking those same words and just speaking them to you and he can say a series of words that attract you or repel you, and it...

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James: It is. And I'm hesitant to, I don't really consider myself a salesman like I'm not that type of person who would say like, oh yeah, I'm really a sale dealer whatever, and I know a lot of other people feel the same way that don't want--they don't want to manipulate people's sales tactics, they don't want-they want to feel good about the way that they're delivering their products. And so, I want to clarify that it's really not about that style was failed at all, what it's about is understanding the customer better. And for one product that I created for freelancers, or actually, people who wanted to become freelancers, one of the reasons, while I was researching and they said, one of the main reasons why I haven't kind of started with my own thing yet because I just feel like I'm out of sorts I don't feel like I have all my ducks in a row. This is like an exact phrase that they said, Well, now I can put that phrase on the sales page, and this is like, this is going to be phrase that you're customers send you in an email, this could be something you read that people who have this problem what they write in like a form online. You take that exact phrase and put it on the sales page and say, this is the perfect product for you because ABC, even if you don't feel prepared yet, even if you don't have all your ducks in a row, even if, whatever. And as a result, when people read that they say, “oh, they understand me, they understand what I'm going through,” and that's really what it's about. It's about understanding the customer and understanding what they're needs are and if you can explicitly get that onto the page through the words you write, that's when your offer becomes so much more valuable or themes to have the full value that you really put into it. If you can't express that, and people don't know how valuable it is, the products that you created. Travis: Right. Well, and that is-- that could come off as being manipulative but it's actually, so, Robert Calyer said enter the, no, Robert Cialdini said, "Enter the conversation that is already in your prospects head." But actually what you're doing is you're taking enough time to drill down deep, and really understand what your customer needs, and then speaking to them and their vernacular, and their vocabulary, rather than some clever sell-zy or some clever vocabulary that makes you sound smarter, right? James: Sure. Yeah, exactly, it's just about having the conversation that they're already having with them just like you said, speaking things, speaking in their own words it‟s what it's about. Travis: Yeah. I've been caught up, and when I first started learning how to write, when I read what I wrote, it sounds like I was writing a letter to the Queen of England or something. James: Right, you're so formal and...

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Travis: Oh yeah, well, you know, it wasn't quite that bad but I'm like, "Who is this guy, get real." And then I had to dial that down, and so, I agree with you. The copy writing in this day and age applies to almost everything that we do, doesn't it? James: I think it applies even more of what we do now than it did, even five or ten years ago. There's so many different mediums through which we communicate now, text video, Facebook, Twitter, all these are more mediums for us to write on. Blogging, email, all of that is--it's just another way to communicate the written word. And so I really think the skill of writing is a critical skill for entrepreneurs because if you can deliver your message, and do you understand how to connect with people through the written word, and that's huge. Travis: I think a lot of people grimace when they hear that because there is some, definitely time and effort that goes into honing that skill and part of that is just doing it, right? Getting your first couple of writing efforts out there and figuring out what is or is not working, right? James: Yeah, I honestly--if you want to have basic grammar handled and stuff like that but I don't really know a way to get better in writing other than writing. You just have to write on a consistent schedule, force yourself to do it every week. Block out an hour each week and just write, even if you don't know what you're writing about at first, and just force yourself to do it, that's the only way you really can get better at it. Travis: Well, you know one of your tweets that I think is on this topic and it's on my cell phone around, it's over here. One of the tweets that I read of yours that I think is on topic, it may be going in another direction is „if you have a goal, the most important thing is to start. Don't wait for motivation, if it's not there it will come after starting.‟ Go deeper on that with what you're talking about there. James: Sure. The main business, actually, that I've been focusing on for this year, 2013, is my own site, JamesClear.com, and on that site I talk about health and wellness, and specifically the impact of behavior change and habit formation, health and wellness. So I spend my mailing point that I'm getting in 2 years, I spend a lot of time thinking about how do we build better habits for ourselves. Like how do we tap in to our psychological tendencies or just our daily actions, so that we can be more productive or more efficient, or more effective, or live with a higher standard, or try a create a better lifestyle for yourself. And one thing that I've started to notice is that if you look at the way people change and choose, and this is just as true for business, entrepreneurship, long sham products, whatever it may be, as is for anywhere else in life. A lot of time you see people, so here's an example. If someone wants to lose weight, like see a commercial for pin in the abs or for some type of fitness product on T.V., and maybe that'll get them really inspired. Or they'll watch a YouTube video about someone who lost a bunch of weight, or watch

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the latest episode of „The Biggest Loser‟ and see if how well they lost a bunch of weight. And these messages are motivational, inspirational. They get really fired up and they say, "I really want to do it, I really wanted to get healthy and so, then they go and they buy the full product and just go praising and try to work out for a week straight, and then they flame out, or they try to, they go by a gym membership and they show up for 2 or 3 days, and then life gets in the way and they end up pack on back. And the reason for a lot of that I believe is that we're relying on motivation to make changes rather than proving a new identity to ourselves. I actually read an article on this which is featured on a lot of different place online a couple of weeks ago. And I talked about identity-based habits, and this is still key. If you're getting started as an entrepreneur, I think the most important thing, or as a writer, since we've talked about that a lot, is to prove your new identity to yourself. I'm the type of person who is an entrepreneur or I‟m the type of person who is a writer, I'm a writer, that's my identity, and proving that to yourself is so much more important I think, than actually sticking to a schedule, or giving a result, or writing 5,000 words in a day or whatever the particular goal would be. As an example or another fitness example, someone might say, "I want to bench press a 100 more pounds, that's my goal, that's where I really want to go to explore.” Well, that's great to have that performance goal, but if you are not already working out consistently, then that's not the type of goal that‟ll change things, because you don't believe that you're the type of person who works out all the time first. So the first goal should be to prove that new identity to yourself by going to the gym 3 days a week. Do that for a month, don't miss. Even if you're only there for 10 minutes, then you're type of person who works out. The type of person who works out every week can become the type of person who can increase their bench press by a 100 pounds, or can become the type of person who gets strong. But you have to have that identity first. It's the same way with business, with writing, if you're the type of person who writes every day, well then you're the type of person who could write a million dollars steps page. Because you're already doing that. And so, too often we focus on these performance goals, we get these pieces of motivation or inspiration that drive us to say, "Oh I'm going to change my actions, I'm going to change my life, I'm going to go all the way and try to achieve this particular appearance or performance-based goal, and we first don't have the identity to do so. That's why I say don't really wait on motivation, the most important thing is to start, no matter how small it is if you get started, then you can continue to prove to yourself in very little ways that you're becoming the type of person who can do these incredible things. And once you have the identity, then you can move on to the performance. Travis: And so, applying it in my own life--what I'm overwhelmed, or something's holding me back, I just try to take another step, another step, another step. Would that be in line with what you're talking about?

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James: Sure, absolutely. I think that one of the, one of the most critical skills in business and in life is the ability to get started over and over again, right? It sounds so simple but so often we find the reason not to start, not to go do the workout, not to write the paper, not to create the email list, not to sit down and figure out this one problem on our website design, whatever it is to your business, right? Not to call the extra client, not to make the extra sales call. And if you could just get started, you can continue to develop that skill of starting, then the results are going to fall into place. Eventually the person who starts the most is going to be the one who ends up finishing something. So I would say that that skill is just so critical to not wait for motivation and to simply, just get in the habit of starting. Actually, I saw a quote the other day, I think it's from Chuck Close, he said, "Inspiration is for amateurs, the rest of us just wake up and get to work." That's the basic idea, if you only work when you're inspired or when your motivated, then you'll never have the consistency that you need to become a professional. Travis: Right. Well, and there's another quote that comes to mind with what you're talking about is, "To know and to not do is to not understand." And so, a lot of times people are speaking to understand the entire ball of lax or the entire strategy before, "Okay, now I'm going to implement, I'm going to watch this program all the way through, and then I'm going to come back and watch it again and start implementing." No, start implementing right away, right? James: Sure. And to be honest I've been there too. I'm just as guilty of all these things as everybody else. And I understand the desire to want to understand it or to have all the information beforehand, right? I mean, I‟m in a very uncertain--it's just an uncertain lifestyle in many ways. You have to become comfortable with the idea of not knowing most of the answers. And so as a result, if we do have the option to research and to get information, I think it's natural to have that tendency to want to do it as much as possible because so much else is unknown, we might as well know what we can. But the problem is that--there's nothing wrong with research, there's nothing wrong with collecting information, there's nothing wrong with getting as much detail as possible, until it becomes a form of procrastination. And when preparation becomes the form of procrastination, it's no longer beneficial. And I always think that being prepared is great, having a plan is one of the best things that you can have because it provides guidance, it provides direction, and--I also compare entrepreneurship to being in an ocean, whereas like a job is being on a river. You have a boss who's providing some sort of direction, if he wants you to go in this way. It's up to you to figure out how to grow faster, how to navigate a couple of obstacles. But when you're an entrepreneur you can go wherever you want, and so you're in the middle of the ocean. So having a plan, having a purpose, can give you some direction and guidance, which is great, But when that planning process becomes a form of procrastination, that's when it's no longer beneficial.

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Travis: Got you. So take me back to some of the other key tenets of entrepreneurship that you were talking about earlier. James: Sure, so obviously writing is an incredibly key skill that we talked about a lot. The ability to start is another one which we just hit on. And then I also think the ability to reach out and not stop at the first no, is the basic thing, right? Like most people, if they didn't know, if they ask a question people say, "Oh, that's alright." That's the last time they ask, that's the last time they try to pursue that option. No, I'm not saying you need to pester people or demand that someone answer your question, or demand that someone do what you want. But not giving up at that first no is key, right? I feel like that's everything. I heard the story of one guy who won the rights to the New York Times, and sent their editors and writers emails every week for two years, before they let him write his first guest post. And it wasn't like just sending email every week but it was referencing something bad written, "Hey, this is how I think I can provide more value, or I saw this article, it was really popular on the site, I'd love to write about this for XY demographic because I think that you need someone who has a voice just for that, and I could do that for you." Or whatever the focus would be for that week, and showing how they can provide value. But he didn't give up at that first no. Actually, I mean, he didn't give up at the 100th No, he just kept going, and eventually it worked. And it sounds so, I think sometimes perseverance is over played, and a lot of the people think, "Oh it can't be that easy" but the truth is, I mean it's not easy, but the truth is it can be that simple. Everybody thinks that you have to know the right person. Well, in the beginning, nobody knows anybody, we all started in the same place for the most part, we have very little resources, very few contacts, pretty much no experience, but somehow there's a group of people who end up making it happen anyway, despite starting at this base level where everybody else started. Bill Gates has only one or two kids, so it's not like everybody has this parenthood, this connections that people havethat's the only reason why they're successful. The vast majority who are making it happen out there are simply just, there's toughling, there's grinding it out and persevered, when most people give up. Travis: Right, I agree with you. If I remember correctly, and I may be wrong, was there a fourth element to that that you had mentioned? James: Fourth element to entrepreneurship? Travis: Yeah. In the beginning, the one you, explaining what you felt like, or the key elements to success and entrepreneurship. James: Which one do you want me to hit on now? Travis: I can't remember which one it was and maybe leading you astray here...

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James: Well, email marketing I think is--that I spend a lot of time focusing on and, I think, could benefit entrepreneurs of, and not only just starting out but entrepreneurs at any level, so I'd love to talk about that more if you want to go over that? Travis: Yes, definitely. James: Sure. So all of my businesses run pretty much on email marketing, and the way that I--you can think about it as a 3 step stage. So you can, no matter where your website is on, you can follow the same process, if you'd like. So, the first step is driving traffic to the website, right? You need someone there to, for anybody to sign up for anything or buy anything. And the way that I do that is through a lot of the methods that we talked about before. So writing, so that could be either writing an article for U.S. New or Report, or you can be writing a guest post for a blog that's in MySpace, or talk to an audience similar to mine. It could also be social media, Twitter, Facebook, all those types of things. We can talk about that more later if you'd like. So the traffic comes, and the second piece is the conversion. And you may have talked about this to your audience before, and I'm not sure how well-versed they are in all this but you have to have an email form on your site, you have to have a way for people to sign-up for your email list. And I've talked about earlier about the importance of getting people to take action with your words, using copywriting to drive people to take a singular action, and as a result, I typically have one piece of action, or one movement or one focus that I want people to focus on when they come to my website, and that is signing up for the email list. Because if they sign-up to the email list and join our community, then they're part of that group that I can connect to you and communicate with on a consistent basis. And so, I spent a lot of time figuring out how to design web forms, how to design websites to get people to sign-up. And if you're listening to this and you're not well-versed on that, and you want just a general overview of where you should put sign-up forms, which of those look like in general, feel free to go to Passive Panda, and check out where I have my form located at the top of the pages, in the side bar, down the Twitter, all that stuff, which links to have up top and why, which what the copy says on those pages. Feel free to replicate that however you wish. You're welcome to use that similar approach or location on your website, or whatever. Travis: Excellent, thank you. James: And so, I use those different forms, those different areas to drive people to sign-up for the list, and then once they get on the email list, I usually try to email them about once a week. Once or twice, depending on the content, depending on the expectations that you set, which is another key thing I should mention, if you want an engaged audience, high open rates, high click through rates, people

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paying intentionally, and then do a good a job of setting expectations when they sign-up for the email list. So for example, on JamesClear.com, I write about Health and Wellness, which I mentioned earlier, and if you sign-up for that list, I have right there, on every form that says, "You'll receive new email every Monday and Thursday. And so, before they ever put their email addresses, and they know when they expect to hear from me and how often, and as a result, the open rates and the click through rates on those messages are great, because the people who sign-up for the list are engaged and they're expecting me to contact them on a particular time. And I think, managing those expectations is key, it's when you don't do that, that people aren't sure who you are, they forget about who you are, if you only email them once every 2 weeks, and it's been awhile and I've gone to 300 websites in the last three weeks, so how am I suppose to remember that I signed-up to yours? Travis: Right. James: So imagine there's that expectation is key. So that's the second pieces, is getting that conversion, like I said, you are welcome to look at any of those forms and use those to help your own conversion. And then the third piece is once they're on the list, I'm going to email them once or twice a week to give them as much value as possible. The typical split I would say would be 19 articles for every one that's selling something basically. I'm going to send you a lot of free content about problems that you're facing, establish trust, establish that credibility, and get you to become a part of this community and the by end of that message, and then once you're part of it and once you believe in it, then I'm going to offer my services, or a product, and we can talk more about how I do then what those options are, and could be for your business. Travis: Yeah, so I was going to ask you that question, and there's a lot of people out there that, say it's a three to one ratio, young is try to give three times before you make any type of offer to your list and yours is 19 to 1? James: Yeah, it depends on, so there's a lot of variation here. The first is it depends on what your offer. If you're selling a $12 eBook or your eBook on Amazon for 15 bucks, well, you could probably let them know about that right away if you want it. These low dollar items don't require--if they're interested in it, they might go after it right away, you're not going to get to deal a lot of trust to get somebody to spend $10. But in my experience, if you're going to sell high dollar item, whether that's a coaching course or kind of a continuation of my coaching session, or a $500 video course on a particular topic. You know what, rather than speaking in generalities I'll give you a very clear example.

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So, I have a friend, Scott Denzmore, he runs a great site called Live your Legend, and Scott just had this great launch for his product called How to Connect with Anyone, and How to Connect with Anyone is a business networking relationships product. It's pretty expensive, I think it's about $400 and for that launch, he's been blogging to his community for a couple of years now, a year or two. But this is specifically for that launch, he built a separate email list, and he said, "Hey, if you're interested in this product, go sign up for this list. You'll get premium access, you'll get early access, you'll be the first people to know about it." And so all the people who signed up on that list, he sent an email to them about once a week for about six weeks and said, "Hey, I'm really excited about this project, here's what I'm working on this week. I can't wait to share this with you guys soon." or "I have a speech coming up this week where I'm talking about the 10 keys to connecting with people. Here's an outline of what I'm going to talk about. I'm going to go over all of this and more depth in the product can't wait to show it to you soon,” something like that each week. And as a result, people build up that trust and excitement about the product, and when it came time to sell it, it sold really really well. And the result is--he build that trust over many more messages then than just three to one. And he put a lot of value into it, he did a pep talk at the same time and sent that video out to everybody and said "Hey, here's a 20-minute speech I gave at the Ted Ex-conference, feel free to watch this. There's going, to be way more in-depth about this course." And all of that work, all of that, the emails, the blog posts, the videos, the speeches, it was all build-in to the product, but it also--to build that trust, to build that community, and that is the key part. People were so engaged and so excited about it, so happy to hear from Scott because of everything he'd given them before that the sale, even though it was a really expensive product, was an easy decision for many people. And that's really what you want. You really want to build that and people knew like this is for me, I really love all his stuff, I know I like it because I like everything else he's given, and that's the approach that I try to take as well. Travis: Well you know, and what's brilliant about that is, he segmented the list so rather than sending everybody that information about those 6 emails about the product, he made sure that the people that were potentially interested in that raise their hand, and then once they raise their hand, he sent them the 6 emails, rather than sending that to everybody, which of course, I know you know, but I just wanted to point out to everybody listening that that's a way that you're not constantly blasting irrelevant messages to the part of your list that maybe as not passionate about that part of what you're talking about, right? James: Yeah, absolutely. That's a key point and there are additional benefits to that too because when people commit to joining at an additional list, that's a way of putting your hand up and saying, "Yes, I'm interested in this." And the result of that is the more that someone does that, the more likely they are to buy eventually, because they've almost committed themselves in their own head and said, "I really want this." And so, the more that you produce great content to those people, they're ready to buy. If you‟re talking about making sales then that's another real way to do it.

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Travis: Yeah. I think times have changed over the last 5 to 7 years beyond the obvious. The internet and everything has just drastically changed but I see that a lot of the copy, the emails, the landing pages, are less salesy and more personal. Have you noticed that change as well? James: Sure, and I think it's a result of a couple thingsI mean, one I think it's a result of--and it's all good things. People are becoming more internet savvy, so they're not going to bite on just some sales copy that's on there. It needs to be genuine, it needs to be authentic, and that's good for business because it's forcing out the people who are scammier, who are just doing it to try and make money as oppose to doing it to serve people and help people. And so I think that's a good thing, and I would say that's one reason for it. Another reason is that the internet is a big, big place, and as a result, the people who are most successful--people are looking for a community that talks about what they're interested in. And so a lot of times those communities are pretty specialized, you don't find a big general marketing blog that often that is up and coming now. Most of the big marketing blogs' been around for awhile. And so as a result the people who are becoming successful now are focused on a specific niche, and usually when there's focus on a specific niche, you sort of talk like friends. And you're like, you have something really tight and smaller and common, and as a result, the general sales vocabulary is less likely to occur because it's going to feel more personal. You're talking about something small and itch that you're both excited in, so I think that changes the copy a little bit too, but I agree with you and I think it's a good thing. Travis: Yeah, I feel really getting disenchanted, I was getting tired of it--I don't mind being sold to, I own a business, I have companies that sell things. But there was this constant broadcasting of constant sell, sell, sell, buy it today, buy it tonight, when in very little value creation in between. And there just needs to be a balance there or it feels like you're a dollar sign rather than a relationship. James: Can I talk about something real quick and get your take on this? Travis: Sure. James: I saw a conversation on Facebook, one or two days ago, and it basically said, and I think this conversation comes up a lot with entrepreneurs and it said, "One of my clients was talking to me about starting their business and they said that they didn't want to manipulate people with sales tactics."And then the response below was, "Is that even possible to manipulate people, I think that it's the customer's responsibility to be marketing literacy and to understand the way the business works and everything." And I get what they're saying in that it's your responsibility to understand what's out there but the problem was that it's basically saying, any tactic you take to sell, it's your responsibility to get the sale, and then other people said things like, if you have a prodigy believe in to not sell it would be a disservice. I hear that a lot as well. And I think I get what they're getting at, right? It's enough said. If

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you have something that you really believe and you should get it out to the world, it's not about feeling sale-zy about it. But the part that I dislike about it is the saying, how you do things doesn't really matter. Right? If you have a product you believe in, you should do everything you can to sell it hard and get it out to the world, and if you do that then you're doing the greatest good. But I think the way that we do things does matter. It matters to have a certain standard, or moral code, or a list of--even if it's just a list of items or a list of tactics that you aren't going to use, so the code you live by. And having that to guide you I think is important because otherwise if we just focus on results, I feel like I get people into trouble all the time. I'd be interested to hear your take on that on whether you think it's a disservice to not get something out as long as you can sell it, and what comes with that. Travis: Well, you know, ethics are ethics, so the buyer, what I'm hearing, one part of that conversation saying is, "Buyer beware, they should know better." And I don't agree with that. I think you are committed to providing ethical quality services, then you should use persuasive sales copy and other things like that, as long as it's not misleading or manipulative, or it's something that you wouldn't be proud of in front of your mother or somebody that you deeply care about. Just because you can do something, it doesn't mean you should do it. So there's, I've heard that school of thought, if your product is a great product then you should do anything possible to sell it. Well, I think there's a condition to that and that can be mistaken in some ways. If you ever have to forgo your ethics to achieve something then I think you need to reconsider or you should really consider whether you want to do that, right? James: Sure, yeah. And I didn't mean to put you on the spot there, but I think of something that good... Travis: No... James: I think it's so heated, I mean, this is a conversation that I think a lot of people worry about or think about but maybe don't want to have. And it's important because, like you said, the ethics that you use... You can create an amazing business and make a lot of money, and at the end of the day nobody really cares about that. Right? Sometimes I call him like the funeral test, like, what I want to go to your funeral, you know? If you're the type of person who lives by a strong standard and who does things in the way that you believe and follows that ethical or moral code that you have, whatever it may be, then that's great. And a lot of times that plays out in the way that you do things, the way that you go by your work. And I think that--all I'm trying to say here, as I get up off my soap box about sales tactics is that--I think that the way that you do things matters, and just thinking about that is a worthwhile investment of your time as an entrepreneur, because a lot of times people will talk about your responsibility to sell, or your responsibility to build a business. But I think you also have a responsibility to do things that you're proud of or to build a business in a way that would make your children proud or however you would like

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to term that. But the way that you do it is definitely something that's worthwhile and worth thinking about. Travis: Oh 100%, and I think you're talking about more than just sales, I just think you're talking about ethics in general and the way that you run a business. James: Yeah, absolutely. Travis: My construction, I still own a couple of companies, and I have a very successful construction company, and unfortunately we're locked in a disagreement with a guy, and we couldn't deliver on one product, and so we gave him back four times his money that we charged for the product because it just took way too long, and he is still just--he's just focused on trying to tarnish our name and all these other things and he keeps referring to the contract, and we've gone out of our way to please him and make him happy, and I said, "You know, if I let you try to call me out on the piece of the contract", which he believes proves us wrong and I don't believe that it does. And I said, "You know, in my 22 years of business and more than $70 million in revenue, I never once let my contract dictate how I treat people, I let my morals, my integrity and my ethics decide how I treat people." I've gone to a restaurant where I've had a bad steak, and they've just given me the meal for free. I'm never going a restaurant where they've given me the meal for free and four times what I would've paid for the meal. Have you? James: Right, yeah. Travis: And of course, he didn't know what to say on that and now he's surprised that I was so candid. But I think when you're focused on ethics and being ethical yourself. Now, being ethical doesn't mean perfect, because you're going to make mistakes. But being accountable and standing up to those issues, and owning them allows you a lot of latitude because you can speak freely. And he was really caught off guard because I spoke so freely. James: Yeah. And it's just a--that's a great example, and it's just something that--it's so worth your time to think about because it's so easy to get into a situation the way you haven't thought about it. And all of a sudden you're doing things that maybe, you don't think that you're that type of person, or that you would make that type of decision but because you didn't think about it beforehand, you find yourself doing things that you wouldn't want to do or you're not proud of doing, or--you're just caught in a situation that you wouldn't normally find yourself in. So that's a good example of letting your ethics guide you and letting your--and whatever, you know, the code is different for everybody, right? You have to decide what it is for you, and that's a great example. Travis: So let's color a little bit in between those lines, I think, using human nature like reciprocity, in other words, to give somebody something of value so that they get to know I can trust you and ultimately leads to a possible exchange of value, maybe even a purchase that will benefit them, I think, Copyright © 2012, 2013 The Entrepreneur‟s Radio Show

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using reciprocity which is a form of manipulation, I think if you get down to it. What's your position on that? James: So I would agree with you, I guess you could see there's a form that I have--reciprocity is huge. I would say, just do the right thing because you believe it's the right thing. Make decisions--I try, and like I said I'm just as guilty of all these things as everybody else, but I try to make decisions in my business based on what would make me proud, and not based on profitability, or sales, or marketing. And I think if you let that guide you then--You're going to be the type of person you want to be whether you have an extra 10,000 in sales or not, so be it, right? But I think it‟s more worthwhile to put your time in that, and sure, doing things for other people is great but doing things for other people with the idea or the hope of getting things back in return is not the--I don't feel like that's the way to go about it. Now it works that way, like you help someone else out, they tend to help you out more. But I try to focus on just helping people because they're great, and incredible, and I'm grateful for their help, and I'm grateful for the fact that they're in my life. And just trying to help people because I like helping people as oppose to helping people because they might give something back to you. Travis: And so basically, I think you're subscribed to the same school of thought. I feel like people are either fountains or drains, and I try to be a fountain. James: Sure. Travis: I've heard that from Joe Polish and I think it's just a brilliantly simple statement, and so I try to focus on constantly giving value, teaching and mentoring, so that--you and I are lying there and that's what even brought us together is we're interested in furthering the entrepreneurial spirit or cause, even if it's not with us, just helping it in general. James: Yeah, another way--I haven't heard of the fountain or drain analogy before but another way that I've heard it there's something similar, and it couldn't be used in business all the time is, you're responsible for the energy that you bring into the room. You're responsible for being a person that inspires others, or motivates others, or energizes others, or brings the positive energy into the room, as oppose to someone who sucks energy out the room. And that's exactly what you're talking about there, and if you are the type of person that who can bring that or if you're working on something that you're excited about and enthusiastic about, and that allows you to bring energy into the room and your customers lives into the business that you're creating. I think your business is going to be way more successful because of that energy. That type of passion is infectious, it's the type of stuff that everybody wants to latch onto, whether they're a customer, or partner, or just a bystander who's excited about your mission and your cause.

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And so, finding those type of things that energize and excite you, so that you can pour your soul into your work, that's really what it's about. Travis: James we can be more aligned on that mindset. James: That's great, I'm happy to have this conversation, it's always nice to connect with people who feel the same way. Travis: Yeah. Even in the call it's obvious that we have a great connection, we're kindred spirits from just the place that we come from. Heck I could go a whole another hour with you and although we really don't have time for that. I need to start moving it in the direction of kind of wrapping things up. Maybe what we can do is agree to come back and visit some other segments at a later date, going deeper if you don't mind. James: Yeah, I'd be happy to come back and talk at anytime. If you want specific questions, they're welcome to contact me, I'm happy to help people all through listening and provide some advice, whatever that may be worth, hopefully it'll be helpful. You can reach me, or your audience can reach me at JamesClear.com, there's just a contact link on the top and you can just fill that form out and send me an email whenever you feel like it, I'm happy to help if you ever ask questions. And, yeah, this has been a great conversation. The things that we talked about are some deep, hard things, and also something‟s, as far as the skill sets go, for example, writing or email marketing. Those are things that take time to develop, but I hope that people won't just glance over the conversation and think, "Oh, this is something that I should do." If you're really committed to the things that we talked about in this conversation to becoming a better writer, to get giving and handle on email marketing, and to going about your business with like an ethical and a strong moral perspective. If you just did those three things, now I feel like I would be a huge benefit for any business owner, and those are things that I myself am going to work on more as well, so hopefully people got somebenefit out of that and I'm happy to help if they want to connect with me and I'm glad that we have this conversation. Travis: Yeah, without a doubt, I believe those skills we talked about--the internet is annihilating the middle man right now. James: Sure. Travis: And so, more and more people are going to be needing these skills to communicate directly with their clients whether these themselves and their team, so those skill sets are definitely relevant. Let's do the lighting round real quick, I've got three questions that I gave you a little time to prepare for. And so, I wanted to segment into this. What books or program made an impact on you related to business that you would recommend and why?

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James: Well, a great one and one that ties in with our conversations today is called Breakthrough Advertising by Eugene Schwartz. It devotes to the lot of people had not heard of, it is written in the '70's, and if you can find it on Amazon or get your hands on a copy, it'll probably set you about $70 but it is the best book that I've ever seen about copy writing. And it was a written by Eugene Schwartz, it did over a billion dollars in sales from his ads, so he is the kingpin of the copy writing world and he provides the framework in that book that you'll be able to follow and apply no matter what type of products or services sell. And it's a great read, I recommend it for all entrepreneurs. It's not--it's not a fun to read, it's not a sexy read, it's some type of thing that you'll settle down and let just flip through pages, but if you take it to heart and use it it'll be a very useful read. Travis: I've read a lot of books and I've never heard of that one. James: Yeah, it's very good, it's well-known but it's really good. Travis: So what is one of your favorite tools or pieces of technology that you've recently discovered that you'd recommend, if any and why? James: Yeah. I talk a lot about the email marketing, so using some type of email marketing service like AWeber, MailChimp, or something. It's critical, I use AWeber but the one that I wanted to talk about, we didn't talk about social media marketing too much. And I have a solid Twitter following, I don't talk too much about social media for business because I have some customers that I've got through social media, but I actually think email marketing is much better for driving business. But social media had value and definitely drives traffic and can drive email subscribers too and turn them into customers. So as a result, I spend time thinking about what's the best way to develop a Twitter strategy and gain followers and stuff, and the app, the tool that I use that it's free. They have a paid version but there's a free version to start, it's called Buffer, and so it's just bufferapp.com. And it allows you to schedule your Twitter updates based on when your followers are most active and when people are most, paying attention the most. And so as a result, you get more traffic and more eyeball from the tweets that you send, more engagement, more reach weeks, all that. And so, it can improve your Twitter footprint, get you more followers, get more traffic to your website all that stuff. And because you can schedule it out and automate it, you actually don't have to spend that much time on it at all. So, for example today I spent one hour putting all the of the tweets in for the next three weeks for me. So I'm scheduled through February 12th right now on Twitter, and I don't have to do a thing, like I could not even sign-in and you would see three tweets a day for me at key times throughout the rest of the month, so that's a good one. Travis: How about when people say something to your, in our conversation with you, what happens.

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James: I tend to login to Twitter anyway, every day or two and so I'm still having conversations with people and paying attention to the mentions and when people are talking to me. So, I try to stay up on that anyway but if you just want to get the word out this is a great way to do it. Travis: Right. Cool. Okay. So our final 3rd question is what famous quote would best summarize your belief or attitude in business? James: You know, this is a tough one, I thought about it a lot. There's a lot of great quotes out there and there's no real one quote I think that summarizes everything in business or in life, but a great one that I came across is from Eleanor Roosevelt, and she said, "When you cease to make a contribution, you begin to die." And I feel like that's just a great knack and not only for business but for life. When you cease to contribute something to the conversation, to create something of your own, to make something of value, then you begin to die, or, in the case of business, your business begins to die. And I think that's a great reminder of what business is really all about. It's about contributing something to the world, it's about contributing something of value to the customers‟ life or two, the people around you, the communities, the ecosystem that you live in, and if you can do that then you'll thrive. And if you stop doing that then you're going to begin to die. Travis: Now, more so than ever, I think. Great quote, I agree with you. There was a time when you could exist behind the curtain and never really deal with anybody and I think those days are over. Do you agree with that? James: Yeah. I don't have too much knowledge or any experience with what business is like 20 years ago, or how the word is like being an entrepreneur 20 years ago, but I would agree with you from what I've heard, and I think that's a good thing too. There's nothing working with transparency or taking a stand and saying, “This is my business, this is what I've created, this is what I'm providing to the world." I think it makes people more accountable, and that's a good thing. So I would agree with you. Travis: Yeah, excellent. Well listen, man, you're the real deal, I want to stay connected with you, I want to continue this relationship and like I said, do another interview. And I like to help further your cause with what you‟re doing because I believe you and what you're talking about. James: Thank you very much, I appreciate it, it's been a great conversation. I'm happy to be here today. Travis: Yeah, let me wrap things up, hang on for a minute, okay? James: Sure.

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

End of Interview Travis: Listen, I want to tell you, remember, or remind you to go to DIYOB, we created that so that you don't have to type in TravisandSandra.com or DiamondsInYourOwnBackyard.com, you can just type it DIYOB.com. And then enter your name and we'll send you the 2013 Business Owners Guide, from Frustration to $70 million. It's a behind the scenes look at what you need to know to grow your business to incredible levels of success. Gigantic businesses started with a little bitty, with an idea and a very small footprint and grew to be a big business. And so you really need to know the behind the scene things, that, like we talked about today, that will help you take your business to the next level. You‟ll get the 2013 Business Owner's Guide whenever you enter your name and information in there. Also you'll become part of our Authentic Entrepreneur Community, and it's basically a network of people, tools, and resources that we know, like, and trust, that you can use to connect with or use to grow your business. This is basically my private roll-a-decks and Sandra's private roll-a-decks that we use and recommend. Everything we do is dedicated to getting you the shortest path to the next level of success, and so, now you'll be able to connect with them through that network. I want to close the show today with reminding you how important entrepreneurs are to our community. Very few people understand us and our drive to do things on our own terms and really stay in control over our own future. And so from a big picture standpoint, most people, even the ones that we love, our wives, our husbands, our families really don't understand the true struggle that we go through, and so I just want to tell you that you're a value to us and we appreciate the value that you bring to your community. You provide the jobs inside and outside of your business, taxes, leadership, everything that basically strengthens the fabric of your community. And so, as an entrepreneur, you're a model of what it looks like to go after your dreams and take action no matter what, even in the face of fear and uncertainty. I want to thank you for that and tell you, even if you're struggling right now. I want you to know that success is really just a formula, like we've been talking about, it's a series of skills and tactics, combined with your tenacity. That really does tell into our conversation that we had today. So I want you to hang in there, and what you're doing really does matter. Again, this is Travis Lane Jenkins signing off for now. To your success, may you inspire those around you to go after their dreams. Talk to you in the next episode.

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

How We Can Help You We know that finding someone that you can trust online today is hard and that so many “so called gurus” are self-‐appointed and have never really even done what they teach you to do. That‟s exactly why we created the Double Your Profits Business Accelerator. This is an exclusive offer for our fans at a fraction of its normal cost. Here's what to expect. We'll Schedule a 'One on One' private session, where we'll take the time to dive deep into your business and tell you what is missing, so that you can have your best year ever! We'll do this by performing a S.W.O.T. Analysis. This tells us your Strengths, Weaknesses, Opportunities and Threats within your business. This will be an eye opener for YOU, for several reasons, however some of the most common reasons are. As the 'Business Owner' it‟s difficult to see the big picture of your own business because you‟re in the middle of a daily management. And you are too emotionally involved to completely impartial. This is a common problem for EVERY business owner. It doesn‟t matter if you are a one-man army, or an army of 150, the problem is still the same.

Travis Lane Jenkins Business Mentor-Turn Around Specialist Radio Host of The Entrepreneurs Radio Show “Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs That Grow Your Business"

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