067 neil patel using simple metrics to grow your business by EntrepreneursRadioShow

THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

EPISODE #67: NEIL PATEL In this episode, Travis and Sandra shared valuable insights on online marketing with successful entrepreneur Neil Patel. Neil is a successful entrepreneur that started young and gained his reputation very early on in his career. Through his persistence and hard work, he was able to establish CrazyEgg.com and KISSmetrics, which entrepreneurs nowadays utilize in order to provide analytics and reports on client behavior as well as traffic in your website. Travis, Sandra, and Neil also talked about a lot of things as well as gave tips for business owners to follow in order to achieve the level of success in their business. Neil also emphasized the value of dissatisfied and unhappy customers in improving the quality of your business. These are just some of the things that the three of them share to entrepreneurs who also want to gain the success that they’ve all reached today.

Neil Patel – Using Simple Metrics To Grow Your Business Travis: Hey, it's Travis Lane Jenkins. Sandra: And this is Sandra Champlain. Travis: Welcome to episode number 67 of the Entrepreneur's Radio Show Sandra. Sandra: Wow, do you remember when we were just beginning and this was a dream? Travis: Yeah, back in 19 and 2012. Sandra: You're funny. No, but you, you came to me as friends and in a dream and your heart of how can we make a difference for entrepreneurs and not only making it happen but through the technology of conference calls to now your high level of equipment you use to work. Travis: My studio, yes. Sandra: And even the quality of the guests, I mean, what a difference. 67 seven episodes, I'm lost. Kudos. Travis: Well thank you. Yeah, it's all been good stuff. Kudos to both of us and everybody that we've had on the show, right. Sandra: Uhm hmm

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Travis: By the way, this is a production of Rockstar Entrepreneur Network, isn't it Sandra? Sandra: Oh, it sure is, how exciting. Travis: Yeah, so listen, our guest today is Neil Patel. Now, you know, Neil is a pretty sharp fellow. Now, all through the interview I kept saying he is 27 and I was later informed by Sandra that he's 28, so forgive me for that. Sandra: You just did it once Travis, just once. Travis: Okay, good. And so Neil was--the Wall Street Journal said Neil is a top influencer on the web. And Entrepreneur Magazine says he's one of the top end entrepreneurs in the world, and he was recognized as a top 100 entrepreneur under the age of 30 by President Obama. So, pretty sharp fellow, right. Sandra: He's a big deal. Travis: Yes. Sandra: And even though he just sounds down to earth and regular for the young man that he is, he is one smart man. Travis: Yeah. Sandra: And lots to learn from him. Travis: Very simple, laid back, easygoing guy, right. Sandra: Uhm hmm. Yeah, cool guy, with a passion for making a difference. Travis: Yeah. Neil has started several companies and he's the founder or co-founder of CrazyEgg and KISSmetrics which are a couple of software tools that tell you what's going on and what's not going on on your website, right. Sandra: Yeah. What works, what doesn't work, why the customer stay, where they leave, all that good stuff. Travis: Right. Hey, by the way, bring us up to speed. Where you been in the last couple of weeks, because I've been telling everybody that you've been dealing with the Grand Prix, and NASCAR. Now, I get that all mixed up, I can't remember which one is which. So solve the mystery for us, where have you been the last two or three weeks?

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Sandra: Oh Travis, I've been a busy girl. Besides travelling with the races, I've been up in Canada, I was in Wisconsin. I've just started off on my Barnes and Noble book tour, so I've been on radio shows and a couple of Barnes and Nobles in the hometown bookstore. And it's very exciting. I'm multi-tasking like you wouldn't believe but I've kind of have learning that, and this is good for all of us, to be in the present moment, whatever it is I'm doing just give it full attention even though there's so much more that's on my plate and coming up. So, yeah, it's exciting life, it's very busy. Travis: Busy girl. Sandra: It's all good, and the common denominator like our show is, is making a difference for others. Travis: Right. So, was it NASCAR, or Indy, or what were you doing with the racetrack thing this last go around? Sandra: It's called the American Le Mans series. Travis: Oh, the Le Mans series, okay. They all kind of bunt together for me. Sandra: Yeah. But you like fast cars. Travis: I do, I do. So what do you say we move on to the next segment of the show, are you ready? Sandra: I'd love it. Travis: Let me grab your hand, let's walk over there together. (clicking sound) That's us walking over there. Sandra: On the yellow brick road. Travis: Yeah, exactly. So... Sandra: Health, wealth, happiness, and success. Travis: Right. So, let's see. What next? Sandra: Well, let's just introduce our fabulous guest, Neil Patel. Travis: Well listen, before we get started I want to remind you to be sure and stay with us until the very end because we've got some good stuff for you. Also, we're going to share a little inspiration, and we're going to tell you who the next guest is, right.

Sandra: And I love your quotes at the end.

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Travis: Yes. Sandra: Yeah. Travis: And we're also going to tell you about how you can call in and leave any problems that, or challenges that you're having with your business that you feel like are preventing you from taking things to the next level. So, stay tuned right after we get done interviewing Neil. Sandra: Yes. We want to take your business to a whole another level. Travis: A whole another level. You're not saying animated enough. Sandra: No, I know. I'll practice. Travis: Alright. So listen, without further ado. You know, the only time I use the word ado is in the show. I don't use it anywhere else. So, without further ado, Neil, welcome to the show. Neil: Thank you for having me. Sandra: Welcome, we're so grateful to have you today. Travis: Yes. Neil: And I'm excited to be here, so this will be awesome. Travis: Hey, question for you. Before you become a rockstar, can you give us kind of the background as to what got you to where you are today? Neil: Hardwork. Travis: Now, come on, that's not an easy answer. We want a magic button, or a switch or something, right? Neil: It's funny, my buddy always says never mention the W word. What's the W word? He says, "Work". Sandra: That's funny. Travis: That's a dirty word, isn't it? Neil: Yeah, he's like, "If you want to make money online you can't talk about the W word because it persuades people not to buy your stuff." I'm like, "It's okay, I'm going to use that more now."

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Travis: Yeah, I agree, and I think we're in an age to where everybody's BS censors are a lot more tuned in than they used to be, and very few people that you're going to get 6 pack abs sitting on coach. And so, you know, you've got to do the work. And clarity comes from doing the work and doing it yourself initially, right. Neil: Yeah, look at P90X, or PX90, or whatever it's called. Travis: Yeah. Neil: They killed it, right. And the reason they've killed it is like it's the most craziest workout system. It's really hard, like if you do it you'll succeed. The question is can you do it? It's like a challenge. Travis: Right. And it's a badge of honor when people do do it, you know. Neil: Exactly. Travis: The amount of people I run into that for some reason feel compelled to share the fact with me that they're going through P90X. You know, it's not even relevant to the topic that we're having but you know, I'm like, "Cool, good for you." So, this W word, how did segway into, you know, you've had some pretty incredible things, accomplishments. And how old are you if you don't mind me asking? Neil: 28. Travis: 28. Neil: Started at 16. Travis: Yeah, so you're a young guy. How did you achieve these levels of accomplishment? Obviously, there's some type of clarity, some turning point when your eyes opened up and you saw the big picture? Sandra: And you didn't grow up in the life of luxury, I don't think by reading your profile, did you Neil? Neil: I did not. Sandra: So this is totally self-created and we love to hear like that story. So we'd love it if you'd share that. Neil: Yeah. So how we got started was I grew up in Orange County California, I'm actually here right now in my parents’ house, and in Orange County, California as you probably already seen on TV, some people live great lives right. Because there's a lot of people who have hundreds of millions of dollars. Copyright © 2012, 2013 The Entrepreneur’s Radio Show

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Travis: Right. Neil: Well, I'm not one of them; I'm still not one of them, right. But as a kid growing up in North Orange County and keep my southeast by water, north is further away. As north as you can get in Orange as in which some of the homes in this city, their front yard is in Orange County, their backyard is in Los Angeles County, right. Travis: Right. Neil: That's how north I am. And it's affordable housing. So you know, my parents moved there because that's what they could afford and it had great school districts that didn't cost money, right, it was public high schools. But I always wanted more so what I ended up doing was just going out there and try to learn things and try to find jobs and stuff, and I couldn't find anything because I was so young. But the only thing I could find was I'm like, "Hey, there's no age requirement to be an entrepreneur." So I just started creating stuff. Travis: Right. What was it that you created first? Neil: A job board, it failed miserably. And then from there I closed down the job board and then I created a consulting company that helped others market their site. Because when I started the job board I thought I would be rich, and then I realized that no one comes to your site. You're not going to make any sales and no one came to my site. Travis: So your first endeavour failed except for the experience that you gained. And then your second endeavour was a consulting gig? Neil: That's correct. Travis: Okay, and so was that monetarily successful? Neil: Yeah, it was successful. Could have always done better but it was successful. Travis: And so how do you go from a failed venture being what 16 years old when you started the job board, is that right? Neil: Yeah. Travis: To consulting, because you know, consulting is normally a gig that is reserved for folks that had been around doing it for a long time. I guess it really depends on what it is, but how do you transition into a successful business, your second go around? Neil: It's a magic, four-letter word. It's called Luck.

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Travis: Luck. Neil: So, I started the job board right. I couldn't get even like 5, 10 visitors to the site on a daily basis, given even a month, other than myself, because I just kept visiting my own site. Sandra: Right, I know that. Neil: Yeah, and then I paid a few marketing firms and didn't do much, but I lost all of my money, because I had to learn it on my own. And I actually did quite well learning it. So well that I started giving speeches in college. I used to take night time college classes so I could finish college earlier, so I started them in high school. Sandra: Wow. Neil: And I gave speech class on how search engines work and one these say, "Hey, the company I work for is trying to hire someone who does this SEO search stuff, you want to come in?" I'm like, "Sure." The guy's like, "Alright." 10 hours a month or whatever for 3,500 bucks, 10 hours a week so simple. And I'm like, "Sold", and I'm like, "Where's my money?" That's how we got started and I did well for him. And then from there, the owner's son owned an ad agency and he happened over like country wide, blue cross, and so forth and so on. Travis: And so you were consulting from an SEO standpoint, is that right? Neil: SEO, social media marketing, all that kind of stuff. Travis: Okay, okay. And SEO was much simpler back then. I, like you, I adopted SEO early on. I saw the writing on the wall and really started playing with it, and made an absolute fortune with SEO, because the industry that I was in, really, nobody was paying attention on it, or to it. And so, well, a little bit of SEO effort allowed me to dominate several markets, was that the case for you? Neil: It did, and back then it was a lot easier, I was getting alright, so... Travis: Right. Yeah, you could rent some links if you wanted to and start pulling rank almost immediately. And you know, I ranked worldwide for several keyword for quite awhile. So transition me to the next level of success. Did you take what you learned there and apply it to your next venture, or what happened with this consulting gig? Neil: Yeah, so. What end up happening with this consulting gig was I realized that wasn't scalable, so I wanted to take credit something that was and a business that wasn't relying on, you know, customers paying you a lot of money. I wanted a low touch, non-sales driven company, and from there I ended up

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

creating with my co-founder and the same one of the marketing firm, I ended up creating a software company called Crazy Egg. Travis: Right. And so obviously now Crazy Egg has the scalability because there's an incredible amount of margins in software right? Neil: That's correct. Yeah, works out quite well. So the business overall is kicking butt and can always be doing better but overall it's been kicking butt. Travis: And so, now, when was that that you started up Crazy Egg? Neil: 2006 roughly. Travis: Okay. So, and now, what's the, I don't know if you want to share revenue but what's your overall share of the market? Maybe traffic wise, something that quantifies the level of success that you've had for, most people that don't realize what Crazy Egg is or what's your accomplishments are. Neil: Yes. so basically like it's a heat map usability tool, pretty much it helps you understand how your visitors interact and engage with your site. And it shows you that data in a heat map format, right. Hot spots mean they like this area, cold spots meaning they don't click on this area and look at it. Sandra: What a great idea! Neil: Yeah. And what that hopefully determined is how to max some work, adjust your design in site so you can make it more usable which then helps you make more money, right. Sandra: Right. Travis: Right. Sandra: I love it. Neil: But market share was, probably don't even have 1% to one of the web analytic's market and they would say Google and Adobe probably take up like 95%. Travis: Yeah, but I don't think that's painting the picture fairly once you share how big that market is, I mean, that market is gigantic, right. Neil: Yeah. So, it's a multi-billion dollar market right. Travis: Right.

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Neil: But the way I see it is we’re a niche within the web analytics, I don't know what the size of the creating market is but it was extremely low, right. Enough for, I could retire off of it. Travis: Right. Subscriber wise, how many subscribers do you guys have? Neil: I don't know the number off the top of my head. Travis: What would be your guess, you know. Neil: I have no clue. I only track revenue and we don't really reveal that number. Travis: Right, right. And so Crazy Egg, how do you go all the way to Crazy Egg? Because the things that Crazy Egg does is not entry level type thing. So I understand the desire for scalability, but how you get to the metrics of Crazy Egg, because that's an interesting stretch. I mean, what took you... Neil: It is. We end up having a lot of designers and developers and eventually we found a team that actually could finish building the product. So we created a base off the needs of our clients in the consulting company. From there, you know, just continue adjusting it to maximize revenue and growth. Travis: Oh, okay. And one of the things that, from my perspective that I've noticed with clients for many, many years and something that I see the Crazy Egg does is there tends to be a lack of congruency between what people say they're going to do or will do versus what they actually do. Neil: I would agree with that and there's too much of that going on in the web. But, yeah, we try to make a promise and we keep it. It's as simple as that. In the ideal world you should under-promise and over-deliver. Travis: Well, not even from a company's standpoint but a lot people don't have the level of knowledge to even give you a clear answer of what is or is not working within their business, and so a lot of times they think it's A, when empirical proof, if they ever took the time to get down to the metrics, empirical proof would tell them that it's item C rather than A. And, you know, Crazy Egg gives them the ability to base their changes on empirical actual, actionable items as oppose to guess work, right. Neil: Yeah, exactly. And the way I see it is a lot of people aren't there yet because the market's not there yet, which education says a lot of long ways to go when it comes to usability, conversion optimization, all those things which Crazy Egg helps solve. But overall, I think in the long run people will get there and be more data driven because now when people want to design websites they're like, "yeah, I want this." Well, it doesn't really matter what you want, you should do what your users want, but the market isn't there yet and they're not that savvy.

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Travis: Yeah. So can you go deeper on usability? Neil: Yeah, it's all about trying to provide your customers with what they want and the least amount of friction. From making it easy to use, to make me understand, so forth and so on. Pretty much, if they're saying I want this, it's how can you give them that exact thing with the least amount of effort, least amount of clicks, least amount of time on site, where the quicker they get the gratification, the better off you are. Travis: And so, you set up goals and see what is the most friction, what’s standing in the way of them achieving those goals? Neil: Exactly. Travis: Okay. And so, now, how does that relate to kiss metrics as well? Neil: Yeah, so kiss metrics is a spin out of Crazy Egg Inc., and it's pretty much Crazy Egg 2.0, it's just renamed Kiss Metrics and the software company with investors. And what kiss metrics is kind of like what you were saying like, "Hey people are wanting to do A when they should be doing C." Well Crazy Egg does a visual portion of it but there is element that needs to be data-driven right. So, why isn't it that you can just put a name like, or not just a name, but why can't you just put in your website data like track, it'll be like, "Oh cool. Here is my conversion rate, here's my lifetime value of the customer, here's my churn. Here's what I can improve to increase my revenue," versus like, "Oh, here's my balance rate, how do I reduce or increase my balance rate?" Well, a balance rate doesn't necessarily impact revenue. Travis: Right. Neil: So we're trying to get people to focus on the data point to adjust how much money that they're making. Travis: So, do you have like KPI's? Neil: That's correct, and you set it up on your own within the kiss metrics system. Travis: Well, I'm good aren't I? Neil: You're good. Travis: I hadn't even been there. So explain to the audience what KPI's are if you don't mind. Sandra: Thank you.

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Neil: Yes, KPI's are Key Performance Indicators. It's what you feel is really important in your business that can help you grow. So for one of our businesses, the key performance indicator is churned. Because if our churn keeps going up, that means we're losing a lot of money, if our churn goes down that means that "Hey, our lifetime valuable customer goes up" which means we make more money. Travis: Right. You know, it's a clever way to focus on the stuff that matters because what I see with a lot of small business owners is they're so busy doing so many things that it's similar to organizing or reorganizing the chairs on the deck of the Titanic. You know that's a drastic example, but it's meant to drive point home, you're not focusing on the key things. And I read a study on gas stations that was really brilliant, many years ago. And they could tell when a pump was having a problem because of KPI's, you know, why is this pump not running the amount of revenue that all the other ones are. And it's because it's having issues and people are staying away from that pump. And while that may not be a relevant example for a lot people, when you can focus on the bigger, more important things like churn ratio, you burn more cash because you've got to go out and find more clients because of the churn, right. Neil: Yes, always easier to keep the customer than it has to get new ones, so might as well focus on keeping them. Travis: But the keeping the customers is not as sexy of an endeavor for most people than going and inquiring someone else. So I think the number is, and it varies by industry, but the cost of acquisition of a new client can be upwards of what, 600% or something versus retaining an old one. Neil: Yup, I'm with you on that one so it's definitely hard. Sandra: Hey, Sandra wants to jump in because Neil, this is a whole world I know nothing about, so I could either sit here and just feel stupid or I could tell our listener that I am on CrazyEgg.com and everything that you just said I'm looking and it makes perfect sense, your pictures on your website, what it all means. And so people can get a little extra help. They can see these heat maps right on crazyegg.com, how it works, and I get it because even with me trying to promote my businesses, I haven't really, really a clue what the customer wants, I think I know, but I love that you have a tool available like this for minimal cost for some of us smaller business guys, so thanks. Neil: You're welcome, I'm glad you like it, so... Sandra: Yeah, and I love this, Crazy Egg is trusted by eBay, Dell, Zappos, Amazon.com, Costco. So you're a big guy, young guy, not big guy, no, really awesome. Travis: Watch out Neil, she's going to expand your ego.

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Sandra: Oh, I'm crazy like that. Hey Neil, what keeps you going, I mean, you got into this and maybe in the beginning it was money generated as far as why you keep going, why you're pursuing to make money. But now you've been in it a number of years, what is it that you love about this industry and what keeps you motivated to, for a break or... Neil: Yeah, for me, it's just fun, right. Like, I enjoy doing what I'm doing, that's why I continually do it. It's nothing else, it's just like you got it right when you talk about why it started. But I end it now than that just because I just really love doing what I'm doing. Sandra: Good. Travis: Why, go deeper on that, why is that, what is it that you love about it? Neil: This is fun for me, it's like adrenaline rush. I love solving problems for marketers, I am a marketer and I love helping other marketers up, so I keep doing it. Travis: Yeah, and you know, I like to hear that because I get a rush off of what I do, and I'm a workaholic actually. I'm constantly thinking about how this thing goes deeper and how this connects and that connects, and that's what really does it for me, it lights me up, it makes me, you know. I can't wait to get the laptop in my lap in the morning and I get it back in my lap, 3 or 4 or 5 times in the evening. I'm so intoxicated with achieving my goals that, you know, it's a borderline sickness of mine. Sandra: But your goals I think for both of you even though you can see the end result and the strategy behind it and what it's producing, I think you both have the element of helping other people, do you not? Neil: I think you're right on that Sandra, I think that's very similar but it's just enjoying. Some people love love me, right, while others probably don't. Travis: Yeah. How long with the Crazy Egg, was this the first company that really took flight and had a sizable financial success or did you have anything else before that that really hit a mini home run? Neil: The agency did really well. Travis: Okay. And so, what did you do, did you sell that? Neil: The recession happened, just transition out from doing the agency to software. Travis: Okay, and then, with the crazy egg endeavour, how long before it took flight time wise. Was it 1 year, 2 years, 3 years, what? Neil: 3 years.

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Travis: 3 years, to where it really ramped up and started achieving just impressive goals? Neil: That's correct. Travis: Uhuh. And so what's, can you share what size your staff is? Neil: I actually don't know, it's about 10 for sure. I don't keep track of that, I don't manage day-to-day for Crazy Egg I spend all my time on Kiss Metrics. Travis: Yeah, well you know, that may sound crazy to a lot of people but I'm the same way. People are going to ask me, "Well, how many employees do you have at this company?" I'm like, "I don't know, that's a good question," you know, however many it takes get done whatever we're doing here. So... Neil: Yeah, just look our people happy, our customers happy, and what's my profit and cost, revenue and cost. Travis: Right. So, what is it, you know, some of the results that you've had with some really big outfits out there and Sandra had mentioned some of them. What's the key component there that's happening? Is it the what you setup with Crazy Egg, why are you having such an incredible success with these companies, can you break that down for us? Neil: Yeah, I'm having says because we're just solving problems out there I think it gets big and do you in a simple way. So a lot of people try to create companies, and when they create companies they do it based off their vision instead of their customer's vision, because then they're the ones who pay you, not you, right. Travis: Right. And so, I guess what I'm trying to do is get to the lesson and the bottom of this because I like to dissect everybody that we have on the show because not only is that the things that you're teaching and that you're sharing with us that has helped you found success but when we deconstruct success people can, maybe we turn a light on for them. Neil: Yeah, so one thing that we like doing is running Qualaroo or Survey Monkey surveys, and what you ending up doing is you're finding out objections from your customers or visitors. Why don't they want to sign up, why don't they like that, why are they cancelling, all these type of things. Because then once you to start getting these objections in quantity, you can then take that data and then focus on solving it. What a lot of people end up doing is, what is it called? A lot of people end up doing, and just purely focusing on going out there and creating something that they want instead of learning, and if you have enough data end points, your worst customer is what's going to help you become better, it's not your best customer. Because your best customer's happy, it's the one that are unhappy that you can really learn from.

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Travis: Right. Well, you know what I found out Neil is the people that can't get out of their own way are more focused on being right than being accurate. And accurate to me says that you're willing to get out of the way and let what does or does not happen speak for itself, does that make sense? Neil: It does make sense, I love it. Travis: You know, and so, if you're married, if you and I had a heated debate and I had one side of the argument, you had the other side, and no matter what I said to you, no matter how compelling my side of the argument was I could not change your mind. That means to me that you're committed on being right and I no longer feel like you're reasonable. And so, most people are caught up in this fight personally with themselves, right, that they're convinced that they're right and by god I'm going to stick with it. When a lot of times my strongest suspicions were close but they weren't dead on. And so, once I separated myself, got away from it and paid attention to what was being said, I could dial it in and make those changes. Because we become blinded, when we're personally connected to things we're blinded, you know. Our child is the most beautiful child, right, and that goes for our business as well. Does that make sense? Neil: It does, now what you're saying is dead-on, so. Sandra: I saw a fortune cookie once, I got it appropriate, but it said the best place to stand in an argument is on the other person's side. And that goes for I think what you're saying too as far as your Survey Monkey and asking for objections, I mean, if you really stand on the customer side and put aside everything else, that's where you're going to get the results and find out what you need to be doing. Neil: Yup, I'm with you on that one, it's all about learning from there. Travis: Yeah. I think the survey also drives the depth of a relationship, it turns it in from a monologue to a dialogue, and I think that is one of the biggest problems with a lot of online businesses now. I've had experience of building an online business and offline business, and I've got to tell you, building an online business is about 10 times harder than building an offline business. Because it's very easy for me to get in front of somebody and make that connection and sell them. Where with an online business there's so many moving parts that you've got to get right before this airplane takes flight. Neil: And it's much more difficult, right, it's harder to read a person you don't know anything about them. Travis: Yeah.

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Neil: Or you do know quite a bit but you don't know as much about them compared to being in front of the person in a offline business, right. Travis: Yeah. And people are naturally suspicious because they don't know, like, and trust you already. And so until someone sets up a system that overcomes those issues of trust and builds that rapport, you know, it's pushing everything uphill which makes it so much harder to get things going. Considering that you've built so many businesses Neil, what do you feel like the 5 key components are that entrepreneurs today should focus on to find a level of success that you found. And I know it's an iteration of what we've already talked about but maybe you can hammer out 5 points just off the top of your head. Neil: So, if they want to be successful, more so traits because it doesn't matter what your business you're in, right. And I would say some of these traits are like you need to work hard in which just keep working hard on your business because you're going to fail, you may not do well at first, you just got to keep putting in the hours. Two, you got to hustle. What I mean by hustle is you got to do what's out there that whatever is required, right. Not bend the rules or doing anything unethical, but you got to figure out how to get things done. Like if someone says, "Oh no, it's going to cost you $10,000, well figure out a way to get it done for a thousand if your budget's only a thousand, right. Travis: Right. Neil: The other thing is you have to be persistent. At the end of the day, you're going to fail a lot, things aren't going to move as fast as you want so you just got to keep sticking at it, right. The fourth quality is you got to learn from your mistakes. You're going to fail a lot, you're going to make mistakes, and that's okay, as long as you learn from then and don't repeat the same mistakes over and over again, right. I think you'll actually end up doing quite well, because overall, in the long run you're also seeing an increase because you keep avoiding the same mistakes over and over again, right. Travis: Right. Neil: And last but not least, you got to be a best executor. If you can't execute fast enough and you're like one of those perfectionist, nothing's ever going to get done or launched. I know some great entrepreneurs, not really actually great entrepreneurs because they can't execute, but smart people and they're shitty executors and they're entrepreneurs, there's not meant to be on the entrepreneurs but gets you 2 years to lodge something that's simple that you claim has been done for over a year, well you're not meant to be an entrepreneur, execute fast. Travis: Because the real learning happens during the execution phase.

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Neil: That's correct. Travis: Everything else is just your best guess. Neil: It really is, like you either got to execute or you got to get out. Travis: Yeah. And so, and people vote, they'll vote with their dollar. Either they're going to give you one vote or they're not going to give you a vote, and nobody gets a chance to vote on your thing until you get it out there. Neil: You can end up doing much, right, so... Travis: Yeah, right. Well, you know, the 5 things you suggested are actually very, very closely related and from 20 feet back it almost seem like the same thing. But they're really similar, the very close related slivers if you will of attributes that need to be present to be successful, there's something that happens when you take all of those things that you explain because I completely agree with you. There's some magic that happens, I don't know, I'm looking up my book case because there's a couple of books and have you read Think and Grow Rich? Neil: I have not. Travis: You're not? That's a great book, and then Sandra turn me to an incredible book called Think by Walter Russell and it's just unbelievable. But the point I want to make is there is a clarity. Well, let me ask you, have you ever woke up Neil knowing something you didn't know before you went to sleep? Neil: Yeah, many times. Travis: I have too. And it's magic, and it comes from those 5 things that you explained. When you lose sleep over things, when you think about it, when you write it down, when you fail, you try, and you fail, you try again. What happens is something magic happens and Napoleon Hill explained it in the Think and Grow Rich, and also Walter Russell talked about it in Think. It is what they describe as infinite wisdom. And what it is you're tapping into infinite wisdom, how else would you have an answer that you didn't have before you went to sleep, right? Neil: Yeah, I get what you mean. It's really crazy but is there is so much stuff out there and then there’s so many ways to improve yourselves and the funny thing you're talk about books like you mentioned, there's so many good books out there and I see so many people that are entrepreneurs trying to learn from their early mistakes. Because I'm like, "Wait, if you can go out there read some books or listen to some books on tape of other entrepreneurs and what they did or didn't do right. You can learn from so many other people out there.

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THE ENTREPRENEURâ&#x20AC;&#x2122;S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Sandra: Yeah, have a rolling university in your car; you always have books on tape. Hey Neil, I just was taking a closer glance at your 5 traits, and they all have a common action, like they're all action steps, like you have to be moving and it's so clear by who you are, how far you've come that you keep moving. And so the keys to the kingdom and new results really are taking new action. So that's what I saw in common with all 5 of those. Neil: I never thought about that but you're right, like I'm always moving. Travis: Well, you know, I'm interested, where did they come from. Is that a straight that was given to you or something that you figured out early on or just something that hit you over the head. How did you come by that? Neil: I think it just came to me over time over the years. So it wasn't an overnight thing but over the years I ended up learning it. Travis: I had something hit me over the head where I learned that I can learn anything, there was a time in my life where I thought I'd made a mistake and wouldn't going to be able to overcome this mistake that I'd made. And then the moment that I realized that I could learn anything, the light turned on for me and all of a sudden I could tune in to that place that me and you are talking about, to where I just drill and drill and drill until I hit it, and the next step so I may go to the 13th step. I don't know what the next step's going to be but I keep working on it, and all of a sudden it opens up and wala! Into the next phase. And it's something about the universe and I don't want to get too "woo woo" but sometimes you've just got to press hard enough before the universe opens up and gets out of your way. And you start solving those problems. Neil: Yeah, I know, I totally agree with you on that one, so... Travis: Yeah. So, you talked about the 5 things that are key with being successful and I completely agree with it. What do you think the 5 key things are that most people are making mistakes with today? Neil: So I actually think they're very similar but, like it goes around the same things right. Not working hard enough, not executing, not learning from mistakes, so pretty much those 5 elements. Travis: So the inverse of that then? Neil: Exactly. Travis: Okay, cool. So, let's transition into the, I've been dominating this, Sandra do you want to jump in and ask him a question?

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Sandra: Oh, the only thing is, now you've hit a pretty good level of success Neil, are you a guy that drives a fancy car, and lives in a big house, and do you equate success with things? Neil: So to me success is happiness, if you're happy then in my eyes you're successful whether you have a dollar or a billion dollars/ Sandra: Uh huh. Neil: And I don't have a car, and I live in a normal 1 bedroom condo, so... Travis: You don't have a car? Sandra: The reason I ask that, because I actually read a little bit about you beforehand, it's so easy to think once I hit success then I'll get these things, then I'll have these things, and I can prove to the world that I'm successful. But with you and with all of us it should be like success and happiness starts first, right? Neil: Yup, exactly. Sandra: Yeah, and then what can you do with the money as oppose to putting it into things. Travis: Well, I think it's whatever floats your boat. Sandra: Well yeah, I just happened to read that helping other become successful and helping nonprofits getting their websites seen and that's something that you always clarify. Neil: So it's like if a fancy car makes you happy, right. Travis: That's right. Neil: Buy the car, if it doesn't make you happy then go find out what does and do that. Travis: Exactly. Neil: Personal, right, and you know that one thing is something that you love and you always wanted to, that's what you wanted, it doesn't really affect anyone else in a negative way then go and get it. Travis: I agree with you. So, hey, why no car? Neil: I live in the city, I don't need a car. Travis: Makes good sense. Neil: Yeah, I used to have a car that damn battery would just die because no one ever used it. Copyright © 2012, 2013 The Entrepreneur’s Radio Show

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Travis: It's almost like you live in New York or something. Neil: Seattle, close enough though, smaller city but... Travis: Yeah. Neil: Definitely not the same but you get what I mean, right. Travis: I do. Hey Neil are you ready for the lightning round? Neil: Sure, let's start it up. Travis: You got your seatbelt on? Neil: I do. Travis: Are you ready for this, are you sure? Neil: I'm sure. Travis: Okay. What book or program made an impact on you related to your business that you'd recommend and why. Neil: The Dip by Seth Godin, tells you when to stick or when to quit, and I think that's important because a lot of people doesn't know when to just give up and move on to the next thing. Travis: Yeah, cool. What's one of your favourite tools or pieces of technology that you've recently discovered, if any, that you'd recommend to other business owners and why. Neil: Unroll.me, so UNROLL.ME, the reason being is all online businesses, even offline businesses use email. And unroll.me gets rid of all the spam and crap in your inbox. The best tool out there for that. Travis: Ooh. Unroll.me Neil: And it's free. Travis: It gets you off of all the spam list, I've never heard that. Neil: Yeah, it's really good. Travis: Cool. What famous quote would best summarize your belief or attitude in business? Neil: "Your most unhappy customers are your greatest source of learning." And that quote is by Bill Gates.

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Sandra: Wow. Travis: What special super powers do you have that you could share with us? Neil: My super powers? Like mentally, I mean, I will just continue working and never get tired. Travis: So, focus without taking breaks? Neil: Yeah, I don't need brakes. Travis: You know, very pointed focus is a secret power; it really is a secret power because it's a key to getting a lot of things done. Beyond your super powers, what do you dream of, what do you aspire to on personal level? Neil: Sure. I don't really dream much, I'm just happy, I'm content with life. Travis: So you don't... Sandra: I love that. Travis: You don't dream of one day, I'm going to do this? Neil: No, not really, I'm just happy, I don't really think too much. I think about work all the time, that's really it. One day I want to could have come to it is a 100 million a year in revenue. Travis: I'm with you; you're just living in the moment. Neil: Yeah, enjoying life for what it is. Travis: Right. So, can you sing? Neil: No, I'm a terrible singer. Travis: I was setting you up for potentially sing us out, whenever we go to close I was going to ask you if you could maybe sing us out on something. Would you be opposed to singing us out on something? Neil: Yes, I would. Travis: You would, okay. Sandra: He does this to everybody Neil, he's crazy. Neil: You could sing us out, I wouldn't mind that.

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Sandra: And he'll do it. Travis: How about a poem? You got a poem for us or anything you want to take us out on? Sandra: Oh my. Neil: A what thing? Sandra: Poem. Travis: A poem. Neil: I definitely don't know poem, I did really bad in English class. Travis: Too funny. Hey, how do people connect with you Neil? Neil: Sure, they can connect with me at Quicksprout.com which is my blog and there's a contact page on there as well. Travis: And then of course we've got CrazyEgg, and so do you want to drag people to CrazyEgg or the KISSmetrics? Neil: Both. Travis: And so, now I thought the KISSmetrics is the newer version or... Is it the newer version? Neil: One's a visual version and one's data version. Travis: Okay. Neil: Like tables and all that kind of stuff. Travis: Okay, I miss that, alright. Sandra jump in, I know I've been dominating, I know you're dying to say a couple of things too. Sandra: No, I'm actually in the moment, happy, sitting here with a smile, and it's just so clear to me Neil that you're somebody; action is your middle name. And out of it like you're living the dream, you're being happy, so many people have dreams, and then someday they're going to be happy. You're just showing us to tap into your passion. I think you keep it fresh with whatever you're doing so you can stay passionate, so you can stay driven so you can keep working, but you're happy. So I think it's a huge gift for all of us that it's not someday, somehow, it's like figuring out what's not working with your customers, making your business successful, keep taking action, living in the moment and there you go. That's a great recipe for a great life.

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Neil: I'm with you on that one. So... Travis: I'm impressed, 27 years old; you've got a lot of these things figured out. You're way ahead of the curve my friend. Neil: Thank you very much, I really appreciate that. Travis: Hey Neil, do you feel like you started out as a left brain or a right brain, predominantly? Neil: I have no clue with the difference between the left and the right one is. Travis: Oh yeah, the left is highly analytical and right is highly creative. Neil: I'm left for sure. Travis: Yeah, okay, cool. Listen, can you hang out for a couple more minutes while I wrap things up? Neil: Yep, no problem at all. Travis: And I'll give you your chance to sing in just a minute. So listen, I want to remind you guys that you can find all of the links to the books and the resources that we mentioned here in the show in the show notes. Just go to RockstarEntrepreneurNetwork.com, I'm going to say that over Sandra and you say .com. Sandra: Okay. Travis: Just go to RockstarEntrepreneurNetwork... Sandra: .com Travis: And click on the radio show button, I'm not going to edit that out either. Sandra: I don't care. Travis: Also, while you're there send us a voicemail, we've set up a little widget on the right side of the page where you can, excuse me, click on the button and just tell us about any challenge or problem that you're having with your business, what's something that's keeping you from growing and finding that next level of success. Getting your way of reaching your true potential, right. So it could be marketing, staffing, sales, profits, it really doesn't matter, any aspect of business. Just click on the Send us a voice message, give us your name, business, business type, and what the problem is and we'll start answering your questions at the end of the show. And as we get more and more of those

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

voicemails, we'll start answering them so that we can instruct all of the other listeners with some of the trials and tribulations that you guys are going through to help keep things moving, right Sandra? Sandra: Uhm hmm, because nobody's alone in their problems, we may feel that it's just us but believe me; someone has been there before and has conquered it. Travis: Yeah, and if you're having that problem then of course you know there's a large number of other people that are having that same problem. So today I want to close our show with a quote by the brilliant Henry Ford, and his quote reads, "A business that makes nothing but money is a poor business." The reason that that quote compelled me to share it with you is I believe that your business isn't only a tool to facilitate your financial dreams, I find it's also an excellent way to lead by example through your actions on many levels that aren't immediately obvious to people. Things like setting goals and staying focused like Neil talked about until you achieve them. How to push through adversity and become a better person in the process, helping those that can't help themselves, taking control of your future, all of those things are elements that are needed to be successful in business. Demonstrating what tenacity looks like by never giving up, so remember, no matter where you're at in your business people are watching your bravery and your tenacity in action and that my friend is inspiration to those around you. So keep doing what you're doing. Sandra? Sandra: Just thank you for being here today, take some of the action steps Neil's talked about, action, action, action. And make a difference in your life and the life of those around you. Travis: Yeah, you can become a rockstar just like Neil. Sandra: Uhm hmm. Travis: And the next episode we're going to connect you with Dr. Joan Rosenberg, a friend of both mine's and Sandra's. And she's a creator of emotional mastery, which as you know plays a critical role in the success and happiness of both our personal and professional lives so be sure to join us on the next show. Sandra you want to sing us out?

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Sandra: No thank you. Travis: Neil, you want to say good bye? Neil: Take care everyone and thanks for listening.

End of Interview Travis: I enjoyed it my friend. Sandra: Yeah, thanks Neil and thanks to our listeners for being here, and yeah, go for it. Take some action, follow Neil's lead. Travis: Exactly, so for now, this is Travis Lane Jenkins singing off. Sandra: And Sandra Champlain signing off. Travis: To your incredible success, take care.

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

How We Can Help You We know that finding someone that you can trust online today is hard and that so many “so called gurus” are self-‐appointed and have never really even done what they teach you to do. That’s exactly why we created the Double Your Profits Business Accelerator. This is an exclusive offer for our fans at a fraction of its normal cost. Here's what to expect. We'll Schedule a 'One on One' private session, where we'll take the time to dive deep into your business and tell you what is missing, so that you can have your best year ever! We'll do this by performing a S.W.O.T. Analysis. This tells us your Strengths, Weaknesses, Opportunities and Threats within your business. This will be an eye opener for YOU, for several reasons, however some of the most common reasons are. As the 'Business Owner' it’s difficult to see the big picture of your own business because you’re in the middle of a daily management. And you are too emotionally involved to completely impartial. This is a common problem for EVERY business owner. It doesn’t matter if you are a one-man army, or an army of 150, the problem is still the same.

Travis Lane Jenkins Business Mentor-Turn Around Specialist Radio Host of The Entrepreneurs Radio Show “Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs That Grow Your Business"

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