068 dr joan rosenberg using emostional mastery to frow your business and income by EntrepreneursRadioShow

THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

EPISODE #68: JOAN ROSENBERG #68-Joan Rosenberg In this episode, Travis and his guest, Dr. Joan Rosenberg had an interesting talk about some of the basic principles of psychology and relates it to business and entrepreneurship. The guest Dr. Rosenberg is a licensed psychologist with over 25 years of practice under her belt. She also created Emotional Mastery and a successful entrepreneur, having been able to help thousands of people develop self-esteem and emotional balance and assist them to be successful in their lives. Travis and Dr. Rosenberg touched in topics from Emotional Mastery like knowing what you know and “being in touch with as much of your moment-to-moment experience as you can bear.” Joan also gave her top 5 things that people should focus on in improving ones emotional state which in turn would ensure success. These are to be aware of what you're aware of, to know what you know, practice saying what you need to say, to be congruent, and to share what you know. These are just some of the things that Travis and Dr. Rosenberg talked about that everyone, especially entrepreneurs, can benefit from.

Dr Joan Rosenberg – Using Emotional Mastery to grow your business and income Travis: Hey, it's Travis Lane Jenkins, welcome to episode number 68 of the Entrepreneur's Radio Show, a production of Rockstar Entrepreneur Network. It's just me and you today, my good friend and co-host Sandra is back on the road for business, so it will be me, you, and our guest, Dr. Joan Rosenberg. Joan's a licensed psychologist. She's the creator of emotional mastery and she's a highly regarded expert psychologist and master clinician. Now, the stuff that we're going to get down to as it relates to entrepreneurs is some of the emotional blocks that prevents us from maybe taking that next step or that things that we do sabotage our own success. I know that there's a myth out there about that problem and I'm here to tell you, I want to tell you from my experience that it is present. So we go deep on several key things that are a vital part of your emotional health and accomplishing success through your business. Now, Joan has shared her life-changing ideas and models for emotional mastery and personal growth, and lots of professional seminars with high-level people, Brenda Breshard and performance academy, John Assaraf, master your mindset series, Bo Eason, and the list goes on and on. I've known Joan for quite awhile, she's a great gal and it's a very interesting and fun interview.

Page 1 of 27

THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Before we get started I want to remind you to be sure and stay with us until the very if you can because I have a question for you. And then as always, I like to share a little inspiration with you. However, I want to start the show off with a challenge for you, and that challenge is we've setup a recording service on our website where you can just click on a button and leave a recorded message. You go to RockstarEntrepreneur.com and there on the right you'll see a little, like a silhouette of a, what I want to say, like a microphone and basically click on that, tell me what's holding your business back, what's your biggest problem or challenge that you're dealing with as a business owner and then as we build up enough of these questions what we're going to do is we're going to go through and select them, and then play them on air and answer them. So, give that some thought and then step-up to the challenge and come to the website and tell us what's holding you back, alright? Just keep it clean because we want to maintain or family friendly rating. And one question per message please. So, now that we got that out of the way, let's go ahead and get down to business. Without further ado, welcome to the show Joan. Joan: Thank you so much Travis: , I'm excited to be here. Travis: I am too. I've known you for a while so I'm excited to have you on the show, we've been buddies for a while. Joan: That's probably cutting across, I'm going to guess 3 or 4 years now. Travis: Yeah, we have, yeah. Hey, before we get into... I don't know if you're familiar with the format of the show, but one of the things that we like to do before we get into what you teach entrepreneurs, do you mind giving us the back-story of how you come to discover or realize what it is that you teach and feel like makes a difference? Joan: You know that has a long tale to it, has a long history to it. I've spent more than 25 years as a licensed psychologist doing psychotherapy and simultaneously teaching how to do it. And I started to, when I was working at UCLA in the Students Psychological Services, I ended up actually drawing out a diagram based on the work that I was doing with women who had eating disorders. And I realize as years progressed that what I had written out was something that worked with everybody. Travis: Like a framework? Joan: Yeah, totally a framework. Travis: Okay.

Page 2 of 27

THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Joan: In fact, I left because now it's basically kind of my life's work on one page. Travis: Cool. Joan: And I kept on using it, and I teach from it, I use it, and everything coalesced around. I think of having two kind of very strong bodies of knowledge here or offerings if you will to entrepreneurs, business managers, business owners, people who just really want to get their work out into the world. And one has to do with the teaching approach that I use to help people learn how to do psychotherapy and then the 2nd has to do with what was on that template or that framework and that I did back in 1992, '93, '94, and it's really now what I consider the basis for high self-esteem, for core emotional strength, kind of unwavering emotional strength, and it works. So that's where it started and then I just kept on refining it over the past 20 years. Travis: Right. So, now it sounds like you're saying that you teach people how to do psychotherapy or entrepreneurs how to do psychotherapy, or was that in the journey, as you were teaching other people psychotherapy you discover this framework and it's something that's applicable to entrepreneurs. Joan: No, I don't mean to be confusing with situations, actually two separate paths. Travis: Okay. Joan: One has to do with the work that I was literally doing to work with clients, and that was when I was, if you will providing psychotherapy or again, working directly with clients. The second had to do with, because I was teaching psychotherapy really almost as long as I've been doing it. It's kind of an odd situation but it's true, I developed a whole teaching approach. And out of that is teaching people how to use listening skills effectively, and that's something that certainly any manager or business owner would want to know. And so it's two separate, one really dedicated primarily for those who were doing psychotherapy, teaching them how to do it. The other is what I would call kind of an emotional mastery approach which helps people break through lots of different emotional obstacles or challenges so that they can go after the dreams that they want to go after the goals they want to achieve. So it's two separate. Travis: Now, number one when you're teaching and it took me awhile to realize this, and I think this is a good illustration for everybody listening too. The depth of knowledge and skill set, and everything drastically increases when you teach, you get a very intimate knowledge. I had something that I wrote and taught on that I had generated many, many millions of dollars on so I thought that, in one of my businesses. And I thought that I knew everything that there was to know about it, but when I wrote and taught on it, I found a whole new level of competence that really kind of blew me away.

Page 3 of 27

THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Joan: So absolutely true, yes. The questions that you get back-- There's two things that happen, the more you have to teach, you have to figure out the simple ways to describe something so that people can really, if you will get the conceptual knowledge behind whatever you're doing, and that deepens your own understanding. That the challenge to speak simply deepens our own understanding. And then there's the other element to it, is that when you're answering questions the same thing happens. You start to make connections in your own understanding that you never thought were there. And so the questions really encourage you or certainly made a difference in terms of me, in terms of my own depth of understanding as well. So in total agreement with you on that one. Travis: Yeah, and I liken it to my level of knowledge and skill set at the time on that specific topic was like being two dimensional and when I taught it and wrote on it, it became three dimensional. And you can hang me by my toes or wake me up in the middle of the night and I can answer the question from any direction, and go in depth without any preparation or anything. And when that happen, I grew to a whole new level of awareness and skill set that gave me a whole different presence among people, does that make sense? Joan: Yes, absolutely. I almost think the best way to describe it is that your knowledge becomes embodied. It's almost as if you're living with knowledge literally at a cellular level. Travis: Right, right. Joan: You noticed. Travis: Yeah, it becomes a part of you, right. Joan: Right, exactly. Travis: Yeah. So, in your journey, how long before you had this "Aha" moment? Stuff like that interest me, before you kind of stumbled onto or just had this realization of this framework that we're going to get into. Joan: You mean how long had I been in the profession? Travis: Yeah, how long had you been doing what it is you do, whether it be studying it, teaching it, doing it, before you had that aha moment? Joan: Well, if we counted from the very start, from the point at which I got into psychology and doing therapy, and that actually started early in my life, then I would probably date that back to 1975. So it would've been from about '75 to '92. So-Travis: Less than 20 years.

Page 4 of 27

THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Joan: Yeah. So it was somewhere in that, and they talk about the expertise at that 10,010 years, so I was probably 15 to 17 years. Not entirely from the point of licensure but from the point that I actually started in the field. So I was licensed first in '86, so it would have been 6 or 7 years out if it went for my license but if we went from the very start, it would've been all the way back to '75. Travis: Right. Well, you know what's interesting about you Joan is the majority of the entrepreneurs that I interview, and a lot of entrepreneurs out there period do not have an academic background. And number 1, education is the answer to virtually every problem that we come up with in life. A lot of us entrepreneurs couldn't pay attention or couldn't focus long enough to be a good student. I know that was my problem and so kudos to you that you had the intelligence and the wear with all to get the education first, whereas I went at it backwards. So I commend you for that. Now, beyond getting the education, walk me through what it took to ramp you up into being a success in business, did you first start out with a model of selling your time for your money where you do psychoanalysis, or teaching people, or did it move from there to something else. Can you explain that journey for me? Joan: It's kind of interesting, I have a little bit of the, and I don't really want to call it ADD but I have a little bit of the experience that many people have which is that you stay more stimulated by doing more things as oppose to doing just one thing. And from the point that I started actually, when I completed all the formal course work and was now working directly with clients, it was clear that just doing that wasn't going to be satisfying, so that the teaching element became a part of that journey. And that expanded out as I went along to wanting to train in different ways, and then that led me to speaking and training others for continuing education. And then that led me to speaking, and training, and doing keynoting beyond just continuing education for other mental health professionals. So it kept on expanding out based on what I was doing, and then I think it's kind of a turning point if you will in the marketing element and what led me more directly into business and probably expanded my whole notion of being an entrepreneur. And I think it was '91, '92, it was a lot going on in mental health in terms of all the insurance companies pulling their entities with reimbursing for a treatment and I realized I needed to learn how to market myself. And oddly enough, shortly after those thoughts, I got this very long sales letter from Anthony Robbins talking about J. Abraham. And that point in time, we're talking about 1992, J. was offering a "$5,000" seminar. And I was crazy enough to follow-up and I went. And what J. did was say that before you come he wanted you to read basically 800 pages of written material. And you know what, I did it. Travis: Good for you. Joan: I actually sat down and read everything he's sent at that point, and what was amazing to me is I literally, Travis: , felt popping in my brain, I was having an understanding of concepts that I never imagined and at that point in time it changed the way I looked at life. Not only did I have this

Page 5 of 27

THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

understanding of psychology, but now I had an intersection of how to think through marketing. And the funny thing that happened with that is I actually went back 4 other times, I think to assist, so I had an opportunity to embed the knowledge more fully, and that really started me on the entrepreneurial kind of marketing path. And I turned around and took the parallels with the same material and started offering marketing workshops for mental health professionals because we were in such dire need of that knowledge. So I became entrepreneurial in the moment by turning that information around. Travis: Sounds like a paradigm shift for me. Joan: And yes, it was a total paradigm shift. Travis: Yeah. Well you know, it probably would be worth explaining how you and I met, we're at masterminds at an events, you know. That's how you and I become friends, and so we both believe strongly in investing in ourselves, and it's not cheap you know. Joan: No, it's not cheap and it's the best investment you can ever make. Travis: You know, I recently wrote a piece and it was called a secret door. And as a young man I always felt like there is a secret door that the super successful had access to, they knew where it was and they could enter and nobody else really could. And for years, and I just had a strong sense that it was there, and for years I looked for it, I looked for country clubs, at hot rod clubs, and exotic car clubs as I found success in my business, and they never quite fit. Until one day, I stumbled on to a mastermind and then all of a sudden it did fit because everybody in the mastermind was a business owner. Now, we weren't in the same industry but we all has similar issues, which were employees, taxes, management, you know, on and on and on. Joan: Right. Travis: And exactly what you just mentioned is when you get together with a group of people that are like-minded, paradigm shifts can happen, right. Joan: Absolutely. Travis: And so I happened to know that you've taken many more high-level mastermind trainings because I've been right there with you on some of them. And now the common business model, and I don't want to knock this business model because a lot of people have it but they're constantly trading their time for the money, right. Joan: Right.

Page 6 of 27

THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Travis: And Dean Jackson explains it as the golden hamster wheel, you know, it's the golden hamster cage, it's nicely appointed with beautiful pillows and everything you'd ever want, but again it's still a hamster wheel. Joan: Right. Travis: And you know that's the problem with the business model when the only way that you make your living is trading your time for your money even if it's teaching, unless you use a scalable model of digitalizing it or recording and selling it. So this event that you're talking about was that the shift that you saw, going from trading your time for your money to a scalable business like that? Joan: You know I saw that and understood that and I think the challenge was, and I guess has always been, that's my biggest challenge is moving my energies away from the teaching and away from the one-to-one. I'm supporting myself so that it's-- I still need to generate the income, and they're really is also a tale or some time that it takes to really between the transition from the dollar-for-hour to something that's much more scalable. So it's been a longer process for me to make that transition from one thing to the scalable. But I certainly have and I'm working on doing more and more of that. Travis: And it's not easy, a one-to-one is much easier. If you went to speak with, and example, you might be invited to speak somewhere and you teach exactly what you're talking about. Maybe you're speaking to a room full of 20 people, then it's very easy to have 3, or 4, or 5 one-to-one clients come out of that event, right. Joan: Right, and that isn't my goal, my goal at this point really is to disseminate my work. Travis: Exactly. Joan: And I am so grateful and feel so blessed to have the success that I've had. It really kind of all cross all the domains, both doing psychotherapy, teaching how to do it, when I go out and train others and speak, and now though the key here is really finding the best venues for me to be able to get all that knowledge out and really to disseminate it so people can make it very useable for them. Travis: Right. So let's segue into the pieces that you teach. Something that you and I were talking about is the emotional piece with communication, with listening, with leadership, with managing people, even in sales. Joan: Right. Travis: Can you take us down that path and talk more about that?

Page 7 of 27

THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Joan: Well, there's two ways to go here. We were talking a little bit earlier, talking about 2 paths, one, again relates to the information that I use to train, in this case, masters and doctoral students how to do psychotherapy. And some of the materials, some of the content in that approach is totally applicable to management and business owners in terms of how to listen effectively and how to respond effectively. And the other that is probably the broader based information is what I'm currently calling kind of my emotional mastery approach. And that's countless different strategies that help people face fear of failure, face what I call self-created worry anxiety, help them develop a different relationship to trust and vulnerability, and deal with, I think I said fear, failure, and risk taking. So it's all that kind of knowledge that initially went back to that diagram that I did 20 years ago. Travis: Right. Well you pick it, which path you want to go down. We may have to do two different segments, one later, but you pick the path. Joan: I would say the one that's more broadly based. Travis: Okay, let's go down that path. Joan: Okay. Go ahead and let you redirect me with the question, and then-One, okay. I believe that a lot of people, I don't want to put words in people's mouths, but I believe a lot of other people think that self-sabotage, that fear of failure is nonsense and I disagree with them. And so I know a lot of it. I'm actually curious why someone has incredible amounts of courage and confidence, and even though maybe they shouldn't have that confidence when you see people irrationally confident, right. Joan: Uhuh. Travis: Although that helps them in doing what they're doing, so either one of those, let's start off with either one of those points. Joan: The fear of failure and the irrational self-confidence. Travis: Two different directions, what stands in someone's way from really ramping it up and getting and finding incredible success in their business and in their life. Joan: You know Travis: earlier you were talking about this notion of a secret door. I'll tell you the secret right now. So for you and whoever's listening here. The secret is being able to deal with your unpleasant feelings. Travis: What do you mean?

Page 8 of 27

THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Joan: That's the key. What it means is the most, a good many of us, I can't put percentages on it but if we look at all the kind of struggles that people have in terms of addictions or a whole host of other problems, a good many of us try to live life trying not to know what we know. Travis: Go deeper with that. Joan: It's an effort to move away from the truth of whatever our experience is. The truth of the kinds of thoughts we think, what we feel, what we need, what we perceive. And as a consequence people start down what I would describe as a path of despair or a path of alienation and despair by trying to disconnect and distract from what they know to be the truth. Travis: Okay, so let me draw a parallel and maybe not a business parallel but to clarify. So I had points, now I try to observe myself in a third person at times at some of the crazy things I do. Joan: Okay, that's actually the important thing to do by the way. Travis: Good. And so I've gained weight and I'm thinking, "What's wrong with my pants, my pants are shrinking. This is my favorite pair of pants, I've had them for 7 years, how are they shrinking now?", you know. Joan: Uhuh. Travis: And while this is laughable, I'm not joking at the time I'm having this conversation, right. Joan: Of course not. Travis: Why are my pants getting shorter, what's the problem here, why are they-- And of course none of it is due to the fact that I'm eating more and I've gained weight or anything, it's something else. And then I come to realize, looking at this as an outsider that I'm fooling myself and that I'm finding ways to support these crazy thoughts and beliefs so that I don't have to live with the reality of what's really happening. Am I summing up what you're saying? Joan: Absolutely, you nailed it, yes. So that the first part of it is that you're actually doing things probably to eat, perhaps to handle some unpleasant stuff that was going on and a way to distract from, to not be as mindful and to distract from perhaps things that were happening. And then the second part of it is you're further distracting by trying to come up with other explanations than whatever the truth is. Travis: Right. Joan: There's two levels to it.

Page 9 of 27

THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Travis: And there's so many things that we can choose to distract ourself from the reality that you can spend the next five years in that slightly altered state of reality, right. Joan: Oh, absolutely true, and you can't even imagine some of the nuances of what people will do. So let me give you a couple of examples. So straightforward examples are drug user or using food as a way to get away from problems and another is to, I'll start thinking instead of feeling as a way to distract from what's going on. Another is I'll have feelings about having feelings as a way to distract, I'll keep my life in chaos, I'll try to rush through things, there are so many different ways we can distract from the truth of who we are, it's probably a little frightening. Travis: Right. Joan: But the goal here that is to not engage in that and instead to go down a path that is really for me the essence of what I would call core emotional strength and unwavering self-esteem, and that is to know what we know. It's to allow ourselves to be fully immersed in the truth of what we know, it's to be what I call self-attuned or being in touch with as much of your moment-to-moment experience as you can bear. Travis: Well, you know, so I'll give you another example of something, and I have a history of driving hard and accomplishing things. Not flawless, you know, it's just I have tenacity, but a few years ago I was working on something and I really needed to have it done, say in a month from when I working on it. But every day when it come time to work on it, I would say, "Oh, I don't feel like working, I'm going to this, I'm going to do that, I'm going to do this." Every day I found a reason to come up of why I'm not doing what I'm supposed to be doing, and meanwhile I'm having another conversation with myself saying, "Alright Travis: , you're running out of time, deadline is kept on and on and on and on. And I never could sit down and do what I needed to do. And so, about a week before this I'm like thinking to myself, "What's wrong with me, why am I not doing what I'm supposed to be doing, Joan: Uhuh. Travis: And, when I was able to get real with myself and be completely honest, I was afraid, I was down to my last option. This thing that I needed to complete was the last thing I knew to do to accomplish my goal, and after that I didn't know what else to do. And I was afraid that if I finished it or when I finished it and didn't work that I'd be lost. Joan: I would be inclined to take that one-step further and just ask, kind of follow-up what had lost because what hit me is that you might be disappointed as oppose to lose. Travis: I'd be clueless, I'd be lost, I'd fail, I'd be a failure, you know.

Page 10 of 27

THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Joan: Okay, and so let me take you there, it's a great example, but if I were to had a conversation with you early in that process where you were procrastinating, and kind of delaying which, and this goes at the heart of lots of entrepreneurial delay which is, let's just use it for, for the sake of our conversation the notion of fear of failure. And most people think of fear of failure as not achieving what you set out to achieve. Travis: Right. Joan: And I think that's kind of a fear, or a second definition I'm inclined to use for it is not achieving what you set out to achieve especially the first time you set out to achieve it. Travis: Great point, I agree. Joan: Because so many people stopat the first go around where something didn't work. But again, it's a paradigm shift on the whole thing, and I actually think fear of failure is difficult to tolerating but feelings that get elicited when you don't achieve what you set out to achieve especially the first time you set-out to achieve it. Travis: I agree with you. Joan: So what was happening when you were procrastinating is that you were being more in touch with your anticipation of disappointment, or something else. Disappointment, frustration, anger, embarrassment, who knows? Travis: Exactly. Joan: But some kind of unpleasant feeling and it was the anticipation of that unpleasant feeling that was actually the hold back. Travis: I agree with you and the answer for me in time came to the point where I had to be okay with not being right, with making a mistake, with looking silly in the sake of moving forward. Joan: Exactly. If entrepreneurs can get that, that would be a huge paradigm shift for them. It's understanding that, again, in my world is unpleasant feelings that are at the heart of so much of what holds us back. Travis: Well, you know, and I didn't understand a lot of these things before I started going to different places and events, and masterminds, and mixing and mingling, and learning and growing, and understanding how to deal with several of these things. You know, I lost my mother and I'm the baby, and me and my mother are very, very close and it spun me out of control and all kinds of crazy things. I let that all kinds of crazy things happen because of that. And so I couldn't deal or I didn't deal with that

Page 11 of 27

THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

emotion or the pain of that emotion, so I just locked it away in like a Tupperware bowl somewhere, right. Joan: Uhuh. Travis: And boy, it was powerful, anytime I opened it up it was almost as powerful as the day that I sealed it in there, right. Joan: Oh sure. Grief is intense. Travis: Yeah, and I had an event happen where I shared it with some people and we got together and I had a realization in talking about, it was a very painful moment for me but I had to relive it, and I come to realize that one of the reasons why it was so painful is I didn't feel like I had accomplished a level of success as a human being that would make my mother proud. Joan: Wow. Travis: And so really, what I needed to do is forgive myself. Joan: Right. Travis: Because my mother loves me to death and she wouldn't want me to hurt like this. Joan: Right. Travis: And once I realize that I needed to forgive myself, because I thought it was something else, and don't get me wrong, missing my mother is awfully painful but it was also needing to forgive myself. Joan: Right. Travis: Because I wanted to be a better kid, I wanted to show here that she did a great job and all those other things, right. Joan: Yup. Travis: But it's those feelings that I think, now that's a very personal feeling for me but it's something that was standing in the way of me moving forward. And I think that's maybe, I don't want to speak for you, a fair example of an obstacle, or feeling, or emotion that can stand in our way and prevent us from accomplishing what we needed to accomplish. Joan: Oh, yeah. Absolutely true. So you've given two phenomenal examples. One, where you were holding off completing something in that month's time, and then the second one with-- Actually, in this case it's dealing with intense grief, and that was really acting as something because it was hard to go Copyright © 2012, 2013 The Entrepreneur’s Radio Show

Page 12 of 27

THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

and just experience and live with the experience of that intense grief and sadness that everything you did to keep away from that. Everything you did in this case to try not to know what you knew was keeping you actually away from being successful in whatever you were pursuing, or as successful as you could become. Travis: Yeah, and it's crazy, on a deep level I knew the answer to that, I'd never took the time to deal with it because it was so painful. Joan: And that's the weird part Travis, all of us know that at a deep level. Travis: Wow. Joan: I think-- This was so paradoxical about the whole thing, is that not only do we know that we're trying not to know what we know, we also have an awareness, it's like we have this knowing awareness of how we're trying not to know things. And because we are a capacity to think about what we think, it allows us actually to write our course, to getting this ship to go in the right direction. It allows us to redirect and actually get back on the right path. So when you have the awareness that you were moving away from that pain and actually had to forgive yourself, you have the inner knowledge of what you needed to do right there. Travis: I just needed somebody to help me reach down there and grab it, and move it out of the way. Joan: Exactly. Travis: Yeah. So, this path that we're going down, is it completely about removing obstacles or is it also about adding elements that will compound or add to your success? Joan: It's both, it's finding kind of all the nuances that we do to get in our own way, and it is also added to. There's a couple of different things. Broadly speaking, there's 3 to 4 main steps in terms of my whole approach, and the first is knowing what you know. The second actually is the most additive one, it's speaking what you know. And in my experience, what I watch is people really struggle a lot with being able to use their voice with ease, to say the things that they want to say or need to say, to important people in their life. Again, whether it's in a business situation or in a personal situation. And I think men struggle with this too but certainly women struggle with it more than men, and the-- so a big piece of what I kind of add to is helping people understand all the kind of, you've talked about a secret door before, kind of the secret door to the conversation and how important it is for a person to be able to speak with ease in whatever situation they're in. Travis: So are you talking about finding your true voice of who's-- Is that the right way of saying it?

Page 13 of 27

THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Joan: It could be finding your true voice but I want someone to be able to have the ability or the capacity to be in a conflictual situation and say what they need to say in that conflictual situation. Or to confront somebody if they need to confront somebody about poor work, or bad behavior, or misaligned priorities or whatever it might be. And simultaneously, to have the ease to appreciate that person and say good job when they've done well and to go home and tell their husband, or wife, or partner, or lover, or kids, whomever, and say to them "I love you dearly and I miss you." So I want somebody to be able to have that range of being able to handle their inside experience, all their feelings, the whole range of feelings plus being able to say them with ease in the appropriate situation with kindness and with discretion. Travis: What you’re describing is a powerful leader. Joan: Right, exactly. And this is what we're talking about earlier too in terms of this guest at the heart of leadership. Travis: So do you feel like-- I deal with a lot of entrepreneurs and they are people that, or you can tell that they're just pleasers; they want to please everybody, right. And so how easy is it for an entrepreneur that has that type of personality to get out of the tracks of being a pleaser and being able to stand up? Because I've got a doctor that I mentor, she's super brilliant at what she does and she's so sweet that when people do things that are dishonest or not proper, she doesn't stand up and defend things with the vigor that she should. Joan: Right. Travis: And so, how do you take someone out of their natural and groove and make them a more wellrounded leader like that? Joan: You know it's interesting, you ask me how long and I'm tempted to tell you 2 hours. And the only reason I'm tempted to tell you that is because I had somebody come in to my office in the past month. Highly successful in her own right but described herself as an imposter and this is after 20 years in a particular field. And also described handling her experience by running away from things and shutting down on them, like she was done. If something wasn't working she was done, there was a cut-off. Travis: Right. Joan: And in two hours of again, using a lot of my concepts and ideas, she went home in-between the second and third time I saw her, and did an entire 180 in terms of how she handled her life. And came back looking like a different person after two hours. So, how long does it take? It's as long as somebody's motivated to make a choice to do something different.

Page 14 of 27

THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Travis: So they've got to be ready for the change? Joan: They got to be ready for the change. So if she's ready for the change and she has the right information and has the right strategies, she could change in really just a matter of hours. And then the rest is all the practice. The rest is just repeating what she does once she's made the change. Travis: Of re-grooving a new track for them to-Joan: Absolutely, yeah. From a neural science perspective that's exactly what's taking place. Travis: And so I want to speak to the importance of what you're talking about because when you have a skill set that you leave from a place of principle, and you can manage those emotions. Now, obviously, everyone tries to lead from a place of principle but you congratulate and comment on a job well done when necessary and you also are able to bring down a harsh judgment on someone when they're being dishonest or not doing what they're supposed to be doing. That consistency and defending your principles, integrity within your business are what make people work for you for 20 years. Joan: Right, true, yes. Travis: Because when they know that they can get a fair shake, you know, in all of my businesses, you can disagree with me in the business and as long as it's based in integrity and you're not trying to be cruel, mean, or have some agenda, we'll sit down and talk about it, and if you're right then there's a good chance that you're going to win. And people have to know that that fairness exist within the organization for them to want to stay with you and they'll stay with you through humps, and bumps, and dips, and all that other stuff because they know, if it ever hits the fan, they know that they can get a fair shake. Joan: Right. And I have something to expand on this one, and it's really interesting. You said a couple of things that I thought were great, one had to do with the fair shake and the notion that that you're really coming from a place of kindness. So let me expand on a couple of different things here, one is this whole notion of confronting employees, and when I talk about confrontation, most people react to it, people bristle at even the word-- Because it conjures up all these heat, and explosiveness, and harsh judgment and all those kinds of things. And I don't see them in that light. The only way I think about confrontation is that it's simply a statement of observation, that's it. Travis: Right. Joan: So if you're confronting somebody i.e. all you're doing is making a statement of what you observe, then that can be done with discretion and from a place of kindness, but it can still get at the

Page 15 of 27

THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

problem that's taking place in the work setting. So that's one thing, the second thing which I find so fascinating is that, and you're talking about literally, if you have employees that are sticking with you for 20 years, it's because the environment generally feel safe to them. But here's the kicker on that one. Most of us believe that we will tell the truth in a situation when we feel safe. And my perspective is we will feel safe when the truth is told. Travis: Definitely make sense and I agree with you. Joan: So when you are able to look at that employee and say, "You need to be doing this task or whatever in a different way," then we approached, it didn't work, or whatever because you're telling the truth in the situations with your employees, that's what creates the safety for them. And again it's when you're truth telling is occurring what I like to call from a positive, kind, and well-intentioned way. And when you do that employees are going to be like glue to you. Travis: Right. Yeah, there's a congruency and maybe you have somebody that's just doing a terrible job in the organization, a manager or something. You've got to deal with the issue, you can't force-feed your people to believe that the problem is not there, you need to recognize it and deal with it. Or it causes a dissention amongst everybody in the organization. Joan: And it causes dissention because the truth is not being dealt with. Travis: Exactly. Joan: So it brings me back to this whole notion of people knowing what they know, handling the truth, addressing the truth of the situation, doing it truthfully and all of that creates safety and connection, and long-term employees. Travis: Right. Sunlight is the best disinfectant. Joan: I totally agree. Travis: I have a reporting mechanism that all of my employees do, and it's very rigid, kind of like the military. We've got 6 or 7 points, I don't remember how many points now, but they have to report every day at the end of the day. And it's about what they've accomplished. Joan: Oh. Travis: And so it's not about what they try to do, you know. And so early on when I implemented this a lot of people wanted to, well, I answered the phone and I did this, and then, "No, no, that's your daily job. What did you accomplish today?"

Page 16 of 27

THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Joan: Right. Travis: And they still struggled with it, and I said, "So think about it like this, Friday comes around, do you want me to pay you, or do you want me to try and pay you?" And they said, "Oh well, I want you to pay me." I said, "Well, I want you to accomplish XYZ, and it's above and beyond answering the phone, turning the lights on, and doing ABC in the office," right. Joan: Right. Travis: It's you going above and beyond, and we created an employee lounge to where every day, everyone reports the time that they clocked in, the time that they clocked out, what they accomplished, line by line item. And so what it does is it causes them to have a holy smokes to theirself, if they're not accomplishing stuff they know they're going to report it. Joan: Right. Travis: And so it's a little bit of a self-policing thing. Joan: Right, sure. Travis: And then also I can look and see what key people are getting accomplished. Joan: Right. Travis: And I think that aligns with some of the things they you're talking about there. Joan: Absolutely. And again, in this case it's people holding themselves accountable. Travis: Right. Joan: Yeah. Travis: Now, something that I figured out earlier and then obviously you've known for a long time is, you know, it fascinated me that people, a soldier would be willing to sacrifice his life for a cause. Joan: Right. Travis: But would you be willing to sacrifice your life for a million dollars? And I think the answer's probably no, right. Would you agree? Joan: A lot of people hold back on that, yes, they understand that money's not the key thing, right.

Page 17 of 27

THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Travis: And so, there is a misconfusion or a misunderstanding with a lot of business owners is they don't feel like they need to treat people like human beings and have the congruency like you were talking about with honesty, and integrity, and all that other stuff. Joan: Right. Travis: People stick with you for 20 years because of what they believe in, not because of their paycheck. Now it does help to pay competent people but it's not the leading reason. Joan: Right. Travis: And it's one of the things I noticed early on and I felt like that is congruent with the point that you're making as well. Joan: Yeah, again, I would agree with you, I think that often times what people want more than anything is to be recognized, and acknowledged, and validated. And if they have that experience on a relatively consistent basis where they're working, their level of satisfaction increases immensely. Travis: Right. So, let me ask you, and this may be a little redundant so forgive me if it is. But off the top of my head, or off the top of your head, could you give me like the top 5 things that people should do and the top 5 that they shouldn't. I know I'm putting you on the spot but-Joan: Top 5, in what domain are we talking specifically? Travis: Well, in the line that we've been talking about, with the conversations that we'd been having. Top 5 things that they should be focusing on maybe improving the results or getting out of their own way. Joan: Yeah. You know what, I'm going to start in a way that I don't typically start. People have to notice what they notice. So paying attention to what you think about and how you think it is important. Travis: I like that. Joan: So, number one would be, to either you can say it a couple of different ways to either be aware of what you're aware of or to notice what you notice. You want to notice where your attention is going. A second would be to, and I'm going to walk down my path a little bit here, is to know what you know. So first is to be aware of what you're aware of, the second is to know what you know. And so if I want the corollary there it would be too move away from trying not to know what you know. A third would be to practice saying what you need to say.

Page 18 of 27

THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Travis: Okay. Joan: And that needs to be done from a positive kind and well-intentioned place, even if you're angry. Travis: Great point and I'm going to go back and we'll discuss these points, I'm writing them down as you tell me. Joan: Okay. Let's see what's the-- Another would be to do with what you were talking about in terms of integrity earlier, and that would be to be congruent. Travis: Okay. Joan: And being congruent involves having your words and actions match your thoughts and feelings. Travis: Okay. Alright, and number five. Joan: It would be to share what you know. Travis: I like it. Okay, so let's stop there. I'd ask you for two fives but let's look for the sake of probably time and confusion, because we can go deep on these and we really don't have time to go deep on this. So let's go back, so notice what you notice, give me a few sentences on that just to make sure that we're clear. Joan: Uhm hmm Travis: Did I lose you? Joan, you're there? Joan: I'm here, I can hear you. Travis: Hold on just a second, can you hear me now? Joan: I can hear you. Travis: Okay, I'm sorry; I lost you for a second. Joan: Okay. Travis: Okay, so. Joan: I didn't go anywhere, I'm here.

Page 19 of 27

THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Travis: Good. Okay, so number one, notice what you notice, can you give me a couple of sentences on that? Joan: For me it would involved you paying attention to what you're paying attention to. So it means noticing how you think or noticing what you think about. Neuroscience or psychology now likes to say where your attention goes energy flows. Travis: Alright. Joan: And what that means is that if you're caught for instance in negative thinking or harsh selfjudgment, then you have to start noticing the best what you're doing so that you can get yourself out of it. Travis: So an example would be, "Well, Travis: can do that but I can." Joan: Sure, yeah, that's an example and you have to notice that you're comparing yourself with someone else. Travis: Yeah, and-Joan: And will go, "Oh, wait a minute, Travis: is doing what he's doing and I need to go do what I need to do--" Travis: Exactly, right. Joan: So yes. So it's noticing the kind of thoughts that are occupying your mind, or feelings, and then what you're doing with them. So it's an effort, noticing what you noticed for being aware of what you're aware of is all about noticing the patterns in your life. Travis: Okay, so that makes sense. Now, know what you know. Joan: Again, so what we were talking about, kind of thread it throughout our conversation today and that is I'm being in-touch with as much of your moment to moment experience as you can handle, it's being aware of your thoughts, being aware of your feelings, being aware of what you need, all those kinds of experiences, being aware of what you perceive. So it's staying in touch with the truth of who you are. Travis: And practicing what you need to say. Joan: Again, going back to what we touched on and that is that you start to be more mindful of the conversations that you have with people and be mindful of when you're holding back information that you really need to be saying. So when you catch yourself holding back things that you would rather be

Page 20 of 27

THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

saying, then you have to start to say them. And again, in this case it's telling the truth of who you are. So the first one is knowing the truth of who you are, the second one is telling the truth of who you are.

Travis: Okay. So I'm typically a very passionate person and sometimes on a topic that I'm passionate about I tend to get more animated and more loud, and I'm not trying to steamroll anybody, is that instructive to tell me that I should be aware of that and dial it down for the sake of bowling over people, or-Joan: No, not necessarily, you don't have to necessarily dial anything down. Again, if you're operating from a positive kind and well-intentioned place, then how it's going to come across is simply passionate. Travis: Okay. Joan: If you're insisting that you're right and others are wrong, or your putting others down in the process then I would say not so good with that one. But other one here, kind of using your example is that you might also look at a person and say, "You know what, when we touch on this topic I get really passionate. So don't let my passion scare you off." So it's just because, again, because you have that level of awareness about yourself, you can add that one sentence in and now you smoothed over the situation before it even started. Travis: Yeah, and I have to do that on some topics. I'll say, "Don't get me wrong here, it's just something I'm passionate about." Joan: Right, exactly that totally cool, now people have a context. Travis: Okay, so number 4, be congruent. So that makes sense to me but let's just clarify. Joan: Again, what I was talking about there is that your words and actions match your thoughts and feelings. So this is the whole notion here is that you say what you mean and you mean what you say, and you follow it through by action. Travis: And it's very easy to be congruent when you're completely straightforward, there's no thinking about, you know. It just unfolds naturally, right. Joan: Right. Yup, so truth is the sunlight here. Travis: Yeah, okay. So number five, share what you know.

Page 21 of 27

THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Joan: And that really is I think adulthood is really all about contribution. I think that the task of adulthood is contribution. So, once you develop and area of expertise, it's sharing, it's giving and sharing, that's what adulthood is really all about. Travis: Yeah, I completely agree with you. Listening to you brings a story, I'm going to slaughter the story, but it's a story of the Indian father, or son speaking to his father and the father's telling about the story of two wolves, the good wolf and the bad wolf. Joan: Right, uhuh. Travis: You know, and the kid asked him if everybody has a good wolf and a bad wolf in them then how do you know which one is going to win. And the father answers by saying it depends on which one you feed. Joan: Right. Travis: And it's such a great story because it's so true, that thoughts are the seeds of action and action is results. And so if you, why plant poisonous Nightshade in your garden when you can plant positive things that you can nurture and grow, right. Joan: Absolutely true, yes. Travis: Yeah. So listen we're getting close on time, are you ready for the lightning round? Joan: Sure. Go for it. Travis: Great stuff Joan, I'm telling you, there's so many things that we talk about, we could do a couple more segments. Joan: Well, I'm game, I love talking about this stuff, this is my life, this is my passion, so anything that allows me to talk about these kinds of things I'm very, very grateful for. Travis: Yeah, as you can tell I love psychology also. Joan: Yeah, you do, and wonderful stories to enumerate and elaborate, or illuminate and elaborate. Travis: Right. So, the first question is what book or program made an impact on you related to business that you'd recommend and why? Joan: There's two that I chose, one is Blue Ocean Strategy. Travis: I love the book.

Page 22 of 27

THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Joan: And again the subtitle on that one is how to create an uncontested market space and make the competition irrelevant and I think partly, it's such an interesting book and I realized that I've been, at least in my own profession, I've been going against the grain for a long time. So that this whole notion of really thinking and doing things in a way that goes against the trend of what most people doing was really, really helpful. A second book in that regard is Dan Roam's book called The Back of a Napkin. Travis: I haven't heard of that one, tell me about that. Joan: Okay, he's done a couple, his second one is Blah Blah Blah, What to do when words don't work, and I like his work because it has to do with drawing pictures to your words and using pictures as a way to help people understand concepts, and because I'm in the profession of training, teaching, speaking all the time, having ways to show people visually what I’m trying to tell them conceptually was really an important addition. Travis: I like that, I'm excited, I'm going to put that on my To-Read book. Joan: So I always start with the back of the napkin. Travis: Cool. What's one of your favorite tools or pieces of technology that you've recently discovered, if any, that you'd recommend to other business owners'? Joan: You know, this is for lots of entrepreneurs trying to get a lot of work done. A colleague of mine developed what she is describing as the top fiverr guide, and people are familiar with fiverr, with being able to go there and find highly qualified professionals doing work. And it's allowed me to identify, in her case, pre-screened folks, graphics artist, computer coders, the whole thing, website developers, you name it. And that guide has been immensely useful for me. So it's topfiverrguide.com, if people are interested but that's been a really useful find if you will. Travis: Very cool. What famous quote would best summarize your belief or attitude in business? Joan: You're going to like this; it's going to be so consistent with what we've been talking about. It's a quote by Jim Rohn, one you've probably have heard or read many times over, and that is that “Success is not to be pursued, it is to be attracted by the person you become. If you want to have more you must become more.” And again the obvious is that really it's how we develop ourselves that's at the base of everything we're able to accomplish. And so it starts with personal and self-development to be able to go out and do the things that you dream of. Travis: Very, very wise words. Do you have any super powers?

Page 23 of 27

THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Joan: You know what, that's an interesting question. I'm not sure quite how you mean it but I will tell you what popped in to my mind. I probably shouldn't say but I'm going to anyway. Travis: No, please to do. Joan: And just know I could never make this stuff up myself. At the beginning, at early in the year of training 6 students intensively, which I do for the year. Probably about 6 weeks into the training they started to call me Jedi Master, and I have enough awareness of Star Trek to know that it was a complement, but not enough to know the real essence of the story there. But the other thing that made me think of was that at some point midyear I said to them that-- I was spending time thinking about what it was that I was good at. And I realize that one of the things that I'm good at is understanding the invisible. Because I'm understanding invisible patterns that people are expressing when they're expressing themselves. And so what I said at that point was that understanding the invisible makes doing therapy look like art when it's really science. Travis: I like that, and I completely get what you're saying. I've heard it said that there's three take aways from a person, there's things that they will say, there's things that they won't say, and then there's things that they can't say. Joan: Right, yeah. Travis: And the invisible is the… what they can't say, right. Joan: Exactly. And the goal that is obviously to bring that to light. And so, I don't know if I have a super power or not but I guess I'm working on it if I don't. Travis: I'm inclined to believe that you do base on what I know about you. Joan: That's very kind, right back at you Travis. And the truth here Travis is anybody that develops an expertise in a given area starts to develop the super power of understanding the invisible. Travis: I agree with you, this is something I stumbled on and it's worth mentioning several times. I used to think that genius was born was anointed, was given, and in some rare cases it is. But I think it's most common occurrence is an accumulation of wisdom.

Joan: Right. Travis: Applied knowledge that makes the person a genius in the process.

Page 24 of 27

THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Joan: Right, Yup, totally agree. Travis: Yeah. And you and I have been on that path of growth and you see it more and more, the more you learn the more you realize how little you know. Joan: That's so true. Travis: So Joan, how do people connect with you? Joan: They can reach me at drjoanrosenberg.com. Travis: Okay. Joan: And they can also reach me if they are-- either for a phone number, they could reach me at 310876-2324. Travis: Oh, that's very kind of you. Joan: It's a Google voice number. Travis: And possible we may be setting up as Dr. J soon? Joan: We will see. Travis: Maybe, possibly? Joan: I'm going to go by the other Dr. J. Travis: Right, there you go. Excellent interview, can you hangout a couple more minutes? Joan: I absolutely can, thank you so much Travis: . Travis: You are wonderful. So listen guts, I want to remind you that you can find all the links to books and resources mentioned in the show in the show notes. Just go to RockstarEntrepreneurNetwork.com and click on the radio show button while you're there, and-- Well, actually, that's not the direction I want to take you. What I want you to do, and this is a priority. We've added a little widget on the right side. Now this is a new website and we're setting up as many resources as possible to help teach and train you to grow your business to that next level. And we've set-up a widget on the right side and it's got a little microphone on it, and what I want you to do is I want you to click on that, leave us a voice message with any challenge or problem that you're having with your business. Think from the angle of what's keeping you from going or finding that next level of success. Are you struggling with marketing, staffing, sales, profits, it really doesn't matter, any aspect of business, just click on the send us a voice message, and leave your name, your business type, and a problem that you're dealing with, and we'll Copyright © 2012, 2013 The Entrepreneur’s Radio Show

Page 25 of 27

THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

start answering your questions at the end of the show. As we get enough of the questions, we'll start answering them because I feel like it's a great way to take real world problems and answer them on the air. If you're struggling with it then there's a very high likelihood that lots of other people are struggling with the same problems, right Joan? Joan: Absolutely true. Travis: Yeah, so, today I want to close the show with a quote that comes from Benjamin Franklin, and the quote reads, "By failing to prepare, you're preparing to fail." Now the reason why that quote compelled me to share it with you is I want to remind you to set aside some time each week, each day if possible to hone your skills and refine your goals. The tiny, little adjustments or tiny additions to your knowledge and your skill set completely change the path that you're on for better. The more it increases your competence and your success and everything all rolled into one. I know you know this because you're listening to this show. I guess I really just want to confirm that to keep doing what it is you're doing and try to do more of it if possible. So for now this is Travis: Lane Jenkins signing off. Do you want to say good-bye Joan? Joan: Yes, Travis, thanks so much and I hope people will connect with me, I totally enjoyed the time with you, thanks.

End of Interview Travis: Yeah, me too. So to your incredible success my friend, take care.

Page 26 of 27

THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

How We Can Help You We know that finding someone that you can trust online today is hard and that so many “so called gurus” are self-‐appointed and have never really even done what they teach you to do. That’s exactly why we created the Double Your Profits Business Accelerator. This is an exclusive offer for our fans at a fraction of its normal cost. Here's what to expect. We'll Schedule a 'One on One' private session, where we'll take the time to dive deep into your business and tell you what is missing, so that you can have your best year ever! We'll do this by performing a S.W.O.T. Analysis. This tells us your Strengths, Weaknesses, Opportunities and Threats within your business. This will be an eye opener for YOU, for several reasons, however some of the most common reasons are. As the 'Business Owner' it’s difficult to see the big picture of your own business because you’re in the middle of a daily management. And you are too emotionally involved to completely impartial. This is a common problem for EVERY business owner. It doesn’t matter if you are a one-man army, or an army of 150, the problem is still the same.

Travis Lane Jenkins Business Mentor-Turn Around Specialist Radio Host of The Entrepreneurs Radio Show “Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs That Grow Your Business"

Page 27 of 27