Ters 111 how to attract and keep profitable clients by EntrepreneursRadioShow

THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Episode 111: John Jantsch In this episode, Travis interviews John Jantsch. John is an entrepreneur and an author of marketing books that's aimed to in helping business owners succeed in their business through effective marketing and guidance. His company Duct Tape Marketing has consulted numerous businesses and allow them to reach their true potential. Travis and John spoke about various topics, all of them aimed at how to effectively use marketing and building relationships that would benefit your company long-term. John shares his ideas on chasing the right client and analyzing beforehand if your client is the right fit for you and share the same goals and objectives as your company does. He also emphasized on the importance of establishing a lead conversion system and track your metrics that would help translate to sales. He also gives his company's 7 stages in CRM and how it helps gain customers that would then lead to revenue. These and so much more are what you can expect from this episode of the Entrepreneur's Radio Show.

How To Attract And Keep Profitable Clients TRAVIS: Hey, it's Travis Lane Jenkins welcome to episode number 111 of the Entrepreneur's Radio Show, a production of rockstarentrepreneurnetwork.com, where each and every week I connect you with rock star entrepreneurs that explain their journey to success and what the key principles were to finding their high-level of success as an entrepreneur. Now I really want you to see is that they're ordinary people that have gotten extraordinary results. Translation, you can do the same thing. Now before I'd tell you who our guest today is, I have a question for you. If you had complete financial freedom, and you had the time freedom to do whatever you wanted to do, how would your life change? Would you pursue other passions, would you start a charity, would you spend more time creating incredible memories with families, or join masterminds where you could be surrounded with brilliant, like-minded people? Or would you travel more? Now I know that answers are different for everyone, although there's one common denominator for all of us. And that is your level of success in your business has a direct correlation to the amount of good that you can do with your life, your families lives and other people's lives. Now, since the success of your business is so important to so many people, and I had even listed everyone that a successful business impacts. I'm going to risk being redundant in repeating something that I say a lot. And that is find a mentor. Find someone that has already built successful businesses that can tell you what you're missing. This is one of the secrets to fastforwarding your success and having those type of things I just described. Now today I'm going to introduce you to Jan Jantsch. John is famous on a lot of levels. He has created Duck Tape Marketing, wrote several great books, and so I'm really excited to introduce you to introduce you to him. Now, before we transition to the interview with John, I want to say thank you to My Shape Lipo here in the United States for the 5-star rating and review on iTunes. Copyright © 2012, 2013 The Entrepreneur’s Radio Show

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Thank you for all of the great feedback my friend and the positive words that you shared with me. I really do appreciate you taking the time and letting me know how you feel, and the value that it's provided for you. Now as a reminder, if you have time and you find value in the show I'd really appreciate it if you'd go and leave us a review and tell us how we're doing. You can review us either on iTunes or on Stitcher. And of course, I'll recognize you on air and say thank you. One last thing, before we get started there's three ways that you can take these interviews with you on the go, through iTunes, Android, or Stitcher. Just go to rockstarentrepreneurnetwork.com, click on either iTunes, Android, or Stitcher right there on the menu bar and it will take you directly to the podcast where you can subscribe to the show there. So now that we've got all of that out of the way what do you say we get down to business? Without further ado, welcome to the show John. JOHN: Well, thanks for having me Travis. TRAVIS: Man, I'm excited to have you here. And you've had some pretty impressive accomplishments. I'm wondering would you mind sharing kind of the back-story of how you got to where you're at today? JOHN: Well, not at all, because I think it's very instructional for people to learn to that. I think a lot of times somebody sees a book by an author come out and I think, "Oh man, that person's just skyrocketed to fame or whatever impression they have. And so I do like to start off by telling people I've been doing this for over 25 years. TRAVIS: Right. JOHN: And I actually started my own marketing, consulting firm 25 years ago after working for an ad agency for a bit. And I really found that I seem to gravitate to working with small businesses and small business owners. But I was a little frustrated with that because they're in many cases can be as challenging as much larger organizations but don't have the same budgets or even attention span necessarily. TRAVIS: Right. JOHN: So 10-12 years ago I decided that what I was going to do to solve that frustration was I was going to create this marketing system, almost a turn-key product approach where I could walk-in and say, "Here's what I'm going to do. Here's what you're going to do. Here are the results we hope we can get. And by the way, here's what it cost." And what was interesting about that approach is that it certainly did solve that frustration of kind of making it up every single time for me. But what I really was surprised was how much it was solving probably the greatest single frustration for a lot of business owners buying marketing services. It's not

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

actually that simple. So the big agencies didn't really want to have anything to do with a small to mid-size firm and that of course is relative, 10, 15, 20 million dollar firms can't even really attract large agencies necessarily. And so they were consequently buying marketing services from a graphic designer, a PR person, or just really anybody they can get advice from and kind of cobbling it together. So this idea of somebody walking new with a very systematic approach I think was very, very appealing. And consequently, it led to certainly me filling my practice. But also then attracting other independent marketing consultants around the world who wanted to be a part of that who wanted to be able to use that methodology and point of view in building their practice. And so now we have about 70 duct tape marketing consultants around the world that are working everyday with small business owners using the duct tape marketing system. TRAVIS: Right. So now, it's a system that really is not tied to one specific industry, right? JOHN: No, it's not at all. My belief is, and sometimes this takes a little convincing because everybody believes that their business is completely different than everybody else’s. My belief is these fundamentals-- every business, regardless of what they sell, or if they're B to B, or B to C, is after attracting, and keeping profitable clients and customers. And so, that's really what our system is about. And obviously there are ways that you have to apply it. Everybody has their own lingo, everybody has market segments, everybody has ways in which they attract and keep customers. But the fundamentals can be applied to any type of business. And interestingly enough, while we work predominantly with small businesses I have a lot of very large organizations that over the years have told me these same principles really need to be applied in their industry or their business as well. TRAVIS: Right, I completely agree with you. Quantify small for you. A small business, what's the revenue range? JOHN: Well, I think many of our consultants may work with a start-up that is maybe not generating any revenue at the moment, or very, very little. But I think that our sweet spot from this idea of companies that have been able to figure out how to get customers but now they're having these growing pains or they've kind of plateaued at this point. Because it's all been just the idea of weak and very promotion-driven, very sales-driven, and really no systematic approach to marketing at all or strategic really even. And so, we find that that 1 to 20 million dollar range, obviously, depending upon what you sell. That can be all over the place in terms of complexity. But that range I think seems to be very fitting. It's also the point where a lot of organizations that grow because the founder was really kind of the head of marketing even though maybe they didn't think of it that way. TRAVIS: Right.

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

JOHN: And so it's when they grow to a place where they realize “Hey we need strategic marketing folks, not just doers.” And I think that's when an organization really starts struggling, even organizationally, how do we structure marketing. TRAVIS: Right. So let me qualify strategic from my side and you tell me if I've got it right or not, okay? So for me what I find is a lot of people think that marketing is just this one mechanism thing, buy my stuff, which is really kind of the old style of, "Hey, we're great. Job quality is number 1, buy my stuff." And for me and I teach this and mentor businesses in building my own businesses, I found that number 1, I need to get crystal clear on who my client is and who they're not. JOHN: Sometimes that's easier. TRAVIS: Right. Because there's a whole lot of distraction. I find that a lot of businesses that are selling unprofitable business. JOHN: Right. TRAVIS: And then, reverse engineering how to get to those ideal clients and then understanding pricing models within your business, and then setting up campaigns that unfold over a period of time. Is that mirror what you teach? JOHN: Yeah, absolutely. So we have kind of some core principles, the first one is strategy before tactics. And even though many business owners will call us in and say, I need a Facebook strategy, or I need to get on social media, or I need to figure out advertising. And that's in some ways what makes this idea of a system so appealing is we kind of say, wait, maybe you do need all that stuff, maybe you don't. TRAVIS: Right. JOHN: But we're going to work on figuring out who makes a narrowly defined, ideal customer or client for your business. And you mentioned that unprofitable. Typically what we do is get them to actually rank their customers by profitability. And they do often find that there's a 20%-25% range of their work they shouldn't be doing anymore, and so that's very eye opening. But I think they also start to then figure out why is the customer profitable. It's not just because they showed up and we solve the need and soon like they paid us on time. And a lot of times the customer is really profitable because they follow your system, you are very methodical about setting the right expectations. They had the right problem. They were the right size business. That's a lot of times what people don't understand when they think about this idea of an ideal client, it's often it's-- we sell accounting so anybody who needs accounting that is kind of in this range and loose in this community is our target client. And of course then as you said, you start

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

listing some of the factors. But what about a client that does X, or what about-- have you ever had a client that the first thing they wanted to do is blah, blah, blah. And of course then they start saying “Oh yeah those are nightmares. We don't want that kind of client.” And so, consequently, you come to really understanding not only the demographics but maybe a set of behaviors that you're looking for. And it gets a lot easier to build your business, to build your products, your service offerings, your campaigns when you know exactly who you're talking to from a very specific persona or maybe handful because there certainly are legitimate reasons after four segments. But it sure makes decisions about should I be on Facebook, where should I advertise, all those types of things a lot easier when you know exactly who you're trying to talk to. TRAVIS: Right. So you're thinking about from bottom up rather than I think most people think about it from top down, or at least from my perspective. And it's tough to turn down revenue, to turn down income, revenue into your business. It's the lifeblood of your business. And so, it's very intoxicating to want to bring those cells in. If you ever take the time. And I think most people are so busy being busy that they never take the time to step back and say, “Wow, the collateral damage that these clients cause within the organization by not following the guidelines," all kinds of stuff, just really causes us to chase our tail and not be at our absolute best whenever we're in the room, or whenever we're delivering services for our ideal clients, right? JOHN: Yeah. And I think what happens, and when you really start getting some leverage with clients is-- that I've worked with over the years is when they start realizing that in many cases though, saying yes to those clients that weren't the right fit, not only did they end up being not profitable for a variety of reasons, you're really running the risk of creating detractors in some cases, right? Because you really weren't able to serve them. And so, consequently, not only did they get a bad experience, now they're maybe out there telling everybody else the about bad experience. So once somebody gets one or two of those they do start saying, "Okay, maybe I need to listen to this idea." But the harder point to make I think quite often, but maybe the more important is opportunity cost. And so when you're chasing or serving clients that aren't the right fit, that aren't profitable, you're making a decision about not serving somebody else, or at least not going after customers that might be the right fit. And I think not building reputation and your authority in that narrowly defined niche. And I think that that's a much higher cost. But it's much harder to see because it's money that's kind of leaking out the backdoor and it's not right in your face. But I think it's probably the bigger threat than really the frustration of working with clients that aren't a good fit. TRAVIS: That's an excellent point, and that's kind of the flip side of the problem. Yeah, great point. How long before this light turned on for you?

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

JOHN: Longer than it should've been, right? But I would say that it was a number of years really, in working with dozens of clients. And really kind of feeling like everytime I would go and work with a new client, it was almost like I was morphing into what they thought they needed. And I did a really eye-opening thing. And it's now a big part of our methodology from a research standpoint when we're working with a client. But I went out and I sat down with a handful of my clients and I interviewed them on why they chose us, what was one word that really described what we do. What do we do that others don't do. Just a handful of questions that we find that can be pretty eye opening. And it was so painfully clear that every single one of my clients to find what I did or the unique thing that we offered solely as kind of what I did for them. And not necessarily a consistent point of view at all. In fact, if somebody where from the outside that were to come in, they'd say what business are you really in because this client says you do this form, this client says you do this form, this client you do this form but there's really no consistent brand at all. You're basically doing projects and kind of morphing into whatever they pushed you to do. And it really kind of shed light. Not only was I not building a brand but I probably wasn't becoming really an expert or an authority in any one area because in order to do that you really have to develop your point of view and say, "This is what we know works and so my value to you Mr. and Mrs. client is not to just what you ask me to do, but is to help you understand what you should do." TRAVIS: Right. JOHN: And sometimes that takes some courage and posture, but if you do it enough that's really how you build a true reputation for delivering value. TRAVIS: Yeah. What I'm hearing you say is you developed enough of a thick skin where you stood up and had the hard conversations early on in the relationship and said, "No, this is how it's going to be done. This is our system. This is how we follow it. And I can respect if you don't follow it, but we won't do business together." JOHN: Yeah. I wouldn't even say thick skin as much as the confidence that, hey this works. TRAVIS: Right. JOHN: And it's okay if you don't want. And in fact it's better if you tell me you don't want it because now we're not going to dance around for 3 more months with me writing proposals. TRAVIS: Yeah, but that's a tough step John. I've been there myself where I feel like I'm a good person. I want to give them great service. Okay, that's not how we normally do it but the customer's always right. Let's go ahead and get in there and get that done.

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

JOHN: I think though that sometimes-- not to coach you on this Travis, but sometimes what that's a sign of is you're not getting in front of the right customers. TRAVIS: Oh no, I agree with you. This was the me of many years ago. And then I finally had to morph to that stage that you're talking about. That's why I know it so clearly is I had to develop some thick skin and take some. Be prepared to hear some things I didn't want to hear. Or lose some clients by standing up for what I believed in because I knew what was in their best interest better than them. JOHN: Yeah. TRAVIS: And if they didn't want to follow my advice then I didn't want to harbor any ill-will but I told them, "It's okay, you'll just need to find someone else." And that's what I hear the phase that you went through also. JOHN: That's right. And I think one of the ways that you really come to making that easier on yourself, and obviously everybody talks about content now. But if you're putting a lot of information out there you're doing a lot of education. You're telling people, this is how we get results, you're showing them this is how we've gotten results for people, either in writing about it, recording videos, doing webinars, doing workshops. It's really that process of getting them to know what you do and to trust what you do that has to be in place. That comes before somebody really says, "Hey, come out and tell me what you could do for me." TRAVIS: Right. JOHN: When we would get those phone calls, because we started kind of getting more and more notoriety, and we would get those phone calls. One of the steps in the process was we had to assess how much they knew about us, what they were doing in their business. Part of our lead conversion process was to back people up and get them to jump through some hoops if you will. Tell them about themselves, or at least offer them the opportunity to listen to our 7 steps point of view. And really what we found is that the people that, A, they wouldn't take that step probably were never going to be a good customer. But, B, when they did take that step then we will run out and started talking to them about how what we do might work for them. It was really a whole different conversation. That we were in many ways in charge of the conversation and it became more of an internal seminar. As oppose to simply responding to their questions or concerns based on what they thought marketing and consulting was. And I think that you have to be willing to kind of change the context in the entire conversation about what it is that you do by really-- and I use the words like demand that your prospects be educated. And that's probably the wrong term. You need to actually ensure that they're educated by creating an entire lead conversion, lead generation, lead conversion system that has those components as their core elements.

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

TRAVIS: Yeah, well it's gotten easier over that last 8-10 years, right? JOHN: That's right. We use to send people, back when all we really had was email, we would send people PDF's and things of that nature and ask them to read. But now we can automatically send them a series of 2-minute videos that end with a form that they can fill out independent upon the answers that they give in that form they get redirected to different information. And so there's no question it has gotten easier. TRAVIS: Yeah, I know you've been doing this a long time, 25 plus years. I was used to the fax era and setting up appointments, and doing face-to-face presentations, and developing all the educational stuff onsite. And so, jeez, things have gotten so much easier that you can ethically condition people to know, like, and trust you before you even get there or before you have a teleconference with them, it's incredible. JOHN: Yeah. And I think it's actually become a requirement. There's still a place for that personal relationship. And my last book Duct Tape Selling, I talk about that a lot. It's essential that you have the mindset and the capability to build personal relationships in most businesses. If you're selling $29 product that people buy all day long maybe not. But in most businesses you still have to have the essential relationship building skill and component. You can't hide behind marketing automation completely. But what I think has changed is it used you had to build that personal relationship first and then people would start talking about what you could do for them in a business relationship. And I think that that model sort of flipped around. Now you have to be able to make the business case, whether it's stuff that they're reading about you, their friend they're sharing in their social networks about you. That business case almost has to be made before I'll even let you in to tell me about what you might actually do for me. And so, I think that's a part that a lot of salespeople in particular have struggled with of late is that instead of just being a relationship builder, you have to really think like a marketer and make this business case. And then we'll talk about whether or not I want to have some sort of personal relationship after that. TRAVIS: Right. And all of it can be set-up through automation which is a dream now. And then taking them through a self-disqualifying process like you've mentioned a minute ago is heaven. Most people don't realize how all of that stuff used to be manual. Either we'd get them on the phone, or it's just we didn't have all of these thing in place. I can take someone through a 45day funnel and either qualifying or disqualify them before one of my reps speak with him without ever having a personal engagement in that phase or in those processes. Now, that's not always the best way to do it, but it's just eons beyond where things used to be. And I think emblematic of what you were saying how things have completely inverted and flipped. JOHN: Well yeah, and I think the biggest thing, because I write about this stuff, I get asked all the time, what's changed in sales and marketing over the last few years? And I think more than

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

anything else what's changed is buying. And that's what's really dictating a lot of what we have to do now. And by that I mean that now the buyer, it used to be the buyer would go out and maybe they'd make a couple of inquiries, and then they'd call a couple of companies in to come do proposals or give them ideas on how to solve their problem. And now I think the majority of folks are turning online, are turning to their networks, or finding answers, right or wrong to many of their questions and making decisions about who they might want to hire before they're really ever reaching out to anybody that might send the sales rep out. And so, one of the things that I think that really-- you talk about marketing automation but I think really, probably a sales and marketing process that involves marketing automation is probably a better way of really talking about what we need to do today. Because we can no longer guide or force is probably a better word, that prospect down that linear path that we want them to travel. That many of the ways in which they come to find out about our companies are not only out of our control, we don't even know about them, we don't even see them. And so I think that what we have to do is just think about the entire journey and that we're using marketing automation, we're using personal relationship building, we're using content that's put out there in places where we know that our prospects go find content. That we're just kind of organizing their journey in a way, as oppose to really forcing them down a funnel. In fact, I've stopped using the term funnel. We have for years used a metaphor we call … TRAVIS: Say that again, you cut out. JOHN: You've got a train coming through there it sounds like. TRAVIS: Or is that on your end or my end? JOHN: It's not on my end. TRAVIS: Okay. Yeah, then I do. JOHN: It's alright. There's this great bar in Kansas City called Knuckleheads that is down in east bottom, a very industrial area and they're bringing this really great music if you like kind of country folk music. They bring in some great acts, but there's a train track that runs right along the side of the thing. And every concert that you go to a train will be part of the show. TRAVIS: Yeah, I pipe that train in just for sound effects. JOHN: So what I was talking about was that we've really kind of even stopped using the term funnel because to me it focuses so much of kind of driving people down this linear path. We've been using an hourglass metaphor that really, certainly borrows from the funnel idea but puts a lot more emphasis on the customer experience after they become a customer. Because I think

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

one of the greatest opportunities actually for lead generation is a happy customer. And I think that's a part of the sales and marketing process that often gets very little focus. TRAVIS: Well, following the hourglass analogy, are you using a tool that helps you do that? JOHN: Yes. It's interesting. We use the hourglass really as a framework. So we use it for many things. So fundamentally we use it as part of our CRM. So those are the stages. There are 7 stages in our CRM, they're know, like, trust, tried-by, repeat, and refer. And so, we use it in that classic sense that a lot of organizations do to kind of measure, where our people in the various phases or stages of that journey in our business. And so consequently what are giving them there, what questions are they asking there, how do we move them to the next stage. But we also use it when we're designing a campaign for a new product. So we'll take those stages and we actually flip it over at that point because we find you can actually create a better experience if you start with the end in mind. So instead of saying, "Okay, what should the email copy be for this great new product?" We will start with saying, okay, what do we want people thinking, doing, feeling, saying 120 days after they bought the product? How about 90 days after? How about the time of purchase?" And we actually build our entire campaign, or processes, or touch points, or maybe even add-ons to the product based on answering those questions. And what we find that starting that focus on the customer experience after they've become the customer, it just forces us to create a better campaign, and in some cases a better product? TRAVIS: Right. So what is that, HubSpot or something that you're using? JOHN: Well, actually we're using Infusionsoft for our CRM and there's a couple of reasons. We have a very large list, and so it's a service that we use for all of our email, for all of our marketing automation, for our shopping cart, as well as our CRM functionality. So it's a tool that- like a lot of the tools they only really work as well as you work them. But it covers a lot of our needs and kind of has them all integrated into one. TRAVIS: Yeah, I use that tool also. That's a great tool. Although some of their reporting metrics could be unproved. JOHN: Others, yeah. The thing about any tool like that, it's a Swiss Army knife kind of approach as you make-- just like when you think about a Swiss Army knife, in order for that fork to fit next to the spoon you probably don't get the best fork or the best spoon. But they fit together well and they're both on as part of the kit, but you don't have the best, world class of anything because you have to make compromises to make them all work together. And I think that that's probably true. What they've tried to accomplish is pretty awesome really. TRAVIS: Yeah, I agree with you. Hey, what book or program made an impact on you related to business that you would recommend and why?

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JOHN: Yeah, this probably won't be a surprise and I'm certain I'm not the first person to mention this, but I would say it's The E-Myth Revisited by Michael Gerber. And the reason I say that is I read that book at a point where I was really-- I had been a small business owner for a while but I also was really trying to focus on working on small businesses. And it was the first book that to me really-- I'm the big Peter Drucker fan but in many ways his language was focused more on larger organizations. And it was the first book that really kind of put it in very simple, small business terms that this idea of a system for pretty much everything. And that was when the light bulb kind of went on with me is that nobody's. People are talking about systems for accounting, for making the product and for hiring. Nobody's talking about marketing as a system. And to me that just was the light bulb moment that said, "Hey, that's the opportunity and that's what I'm going to build." TRAVIS: I completely agree with you. Marketing systems and business systems, the key things that drive the success of the business, nobody talks about it. It blows me away. Great book. What's one of your favorite tools or pieces of technology that you've recently discovered, and you may have already just said that just a minute ago, that you'd recommend to other business owners and why? JOHN: I'll tell you one because I cover this a lot. And so I'm constantly looking at new tools, playing with new tools. And as an organization we just started using a group chat, a tool called HipChat, all one word. And it's a group chat tool so a lot of times I'm travelling and members of my organization are not in the office, it allows us to stay in-touch. It's got a lot of functionality that makes it probably more appealing and that you can do video chat. You can set-up chat rooms. So we kind of have our main newsroom, but then we have, for different segments of our business, we'll have rooms. It's very searchable, it's very taggable, you can tag people in it. So it's almost quasi-social network that we can build internally. The other thing I like about it is it has a very robust API, and so it's able to-- there's a lot of integrations. So for example, in our page that call the news stream page. Everytime I write a blog post, everytime somebody writes a comment on one of our blog post, if somebody mentions Duck Tape Marketing in Twitter, those types of things go right into the news stream. So it just makes it really easy for everybody to at least have a little bit of a look into what's been going on in the world of Duck Tape Marketing. TRAVIS: Really cool, I'm going to have to check that out. What famous quote would best summarize your belief or attitude in business? JOHN: Oh boy, can I do two? TRAVIS: You bet.

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

JOHN: There's a Ernest Hemingway quote that I have a big poster and I use it in my writing. It's not meant to be literal but it's "Write drunk and edit sober." The idea being that just let it rip, right? This stuff, feel the passion, be yourself, at least this is how I interpret it. But then let it sit and come back tomorrow. And then say, "Oh, this was too wordy, or this didn't make sense." As oppose to hitting send. I think a lot of people get in trouble when they do that. But then another one and I actually don't know who to attribute this to, so I'm going to give my father credit, why not. "Fix the problem, not the blame." And I think whether it's dealing with a customer, an employee, anybody, any certain situation. I think a lot of times we get focused on trying to say, "You did this, or you did that, or why didn't you do this? Everything would be better if you would do X." And I think it's much more productive is to say, "Okay, what have we learned from this? Let's figure out how to fix the problem instead of worrying so much about why it went wrong. TRAVIS: Excellent words to live by. I like both of those quotes. How do people connect with you John? JOHN: Well the easiest way is just ducttapemarketing.com and it's ducttapemarketing.com. We've got some free EBooks, and I do a podcast as well, and there are newsletter that I put out forever. And so, there's plenty for there-- kind of there to get for free obviously we've got our courses in consulting there as well. But go check it out. TRAVIS: And you've got several great books. You want to mention those real quick? JOHN: Yeah. So I've written 4 books, Duck Tape Marketing was my first and that really is the marketing system component. I wrote a book specifically on referrals because a lot of people that feel that that's the only way they can generate business called a referral engine, which is also done quite well. My third book was really a more personal book. I just wanted to write about the idea of making work worth it. It's called The Commitment Engine. And so it deals into some of the more mental aspects of business and why you do what you do, and how to build a business that people want to work in. And then my most recent book is called Duck Type Selling: Think Like a Marketer, Sell Like a Superstar. And it was originally targeted for that sales person that's really having to learn some new techniques in order to get in front of the right people. But it's interesting. I’m finding a lot of business owners and entrepreneurs telling me that they feel like it's really a much more personal way to market as well. And then ironically I've gotten a lot of interest and I'm now starting to get asked to speak in front of larger organizations that the marketing and sales folks are saying, "Hey, this a book that really can teach us how to get marketing and sales on the same page in larger organizations" so it's been a lot of fun.

End of Interview TRAVIS: Excellent. Thank you so much for that. Remember that you can find all the links to the books and resources mentioned in the show notes. Just go to rockstarentrepreneurnetwork.com Copyright © 2012, 2013 The Entrepreneur’s Radio Show

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

and you'll be able to find the episode and the links that I've placed there for you as well. Now, before I close the show today I want to read you my quote for the day. And the quote comes from Eliot Wigginton, and the quote reads, "Life isn't worth living unless you're willing to take some big chances and go for broke." This is Travis Lane Jenkins signing off for now. And I'm challenging you to take some chances and stop waiting for things to be perfect for you. Perfect, it never arrives. Take that chance and go for it now. To your incredible success, take care my friend.

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

How We Can Help You We know that finding someone that you can trust online today is hard and that so many “so called gurus” are self-‐appointed and have never really even done what they teach you to do. That’s exactly why we created the Double Your Profits Business Accelerator. This is an exclusive offer for our fans at a fraction of its normal cost. Here's what to expect. We'll Schedule a 'One on One' private session, where we'll take the time to dive deep into your business and tell you what is missing, so that you can have your best year ever! We'll do this by performing a S.W.O.T. Analysis. This tells us your Strengths, Weaknesses, Opportunities and Threats within your business. This will be an eye opener for YOU, for several reasons, however some of the most common reasons are. As the 'Business Owner' it’s difficult to see the big picture of your own business because you’re in the middle of a daily management. And you are too emotionally involved to completely impartial. This is a common problem for EVERY business owner. It doesn’t matter if you are a one-man army, or an army of 150, the problem is still the same. Travis Lane Jenkins Business Mentor-Turn Around Specialist Radio Host of The Entrepreneurs Radio Show “Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs That Grow Your Business"

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