Building credibility is THE ticket to building a successful business by EntrepreneursRadioShow

THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

Episode 117: Dan Schawbel In this episode Travis interviews Dan Schawbel. Dan is a dynamic and successful entrepreneur whose company has helped businesses and entrepreneurs alike in their marketing, branding, and discovering today's trends in the market and their consumers. Apart from the coaching and teaching engagements, Dan has written books and numerous research studies that assist entrepreneurs drive the growth of their business. Travis and Dan talks about various concepts that provide value to entrepreneurs. Dan's shares his philosophy of nobody will invest in you unless you invest in yourself. He also states the importance of perseverance and belief in your goal despite the rejections. They also point out on concentrating on your strengths in the business rather than dwelling on the weaknesses. And also letting entrepreneurs know the value of being the best for your target market rather than trying to being everything to everyone. This and much more are what you can learn from this episode of the Entrepreneur's Radio Show.

Building Credibility Is THE Ticket to Building A Successful Business TRAVIS: Hey, it's Travis Lane Jenkins, welcome to episode number 117 of the Entrepreneur's Radio Show, a production of rockstarentrepreneurnetwork.com, where each and every week I'm going to connect you with rock star entrepreneurs that explain their journey to success including their failures, and what's been the key principles to finding that high level of success as an entrepreneur. So that you can see that successful entrepreneurs are really just everyday people that stayed committed to taking constant focused action each and every day. Now, today I'm going to introduce you to Dan Schawbel. Dan was named to Inc. Magazine 30 under 30 list in 2010, The Forbes Magazine 30 under 30 list in 2012, and Forbes top 20 social media influencers list in 2013. BusinessWeek cite him as someone entrepreneurs should follow on Twitter. He's been featured on over 1,300 media outlets such as wired magazine, the Today's Show, Street Signs on NBC, the Nightly Business Report, and I could go on with the list of accolades that he's accomplished. But I just want to make it clear to you that as always there's going to be lots of great value for you on this episode. Now before we get started I want to say thank you to Fishman Brad there on iTunes. Thanks for the 5-star written review. His review said, "I first started listening to this podcast about a month ago and I keep finding myself going back for more and more." Brad says that he's gotten to the point where he's realized that he cannot do everything all the time. He also said that this podcast has helped him find the courage to start asking for help and not be embarrassed about the mistakes that he's made. He also recommended to not be afraid to ask for help. There's always someone out there willing to guide you in the right direction. And then he says, "Please keep the podcast going. They've helped me and I can guarantee thousands of others." Brad, thanks for the great feedback. I'm super excited that they're giving you so much value and Copyright © 2012, 2013 The Entrepreneur’s Radio Show

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

direction for your business. Keep it up my friend, that's exactly what these podcast were designed for. So I love the fact that you're taking action based on the things that we're talking about and the things that you're taking from each of the show. Now, if you have time and you find value in the show I'd really appreciate it if you'd go and leave us a review and just tell us how we're doing. And of course I'll recognize you on air and say thank you. One last thing, you can take these podcast with you on the go, through iTunes, Android, or Stitcher, just go to rockstarentrepreneurnetwork.com and click on the icon right there on the menu bar for your iTunes, Android, or Stitcher and it will take you directly to the show. Now that we've got all of that out of the way let's go ahead and get down to business. Welcome to the show Dan. DAN: Happy to be here, thanks for having me Travis. TRAVIS: You bet. I'm excited to spend some time with you. And I'm curious, you're a young guy and you've accomplished some pretty impressive stuff in the short amount of time that you've been in business. Do you mind sharing that back-story? DAN: Absolutely. Well, I've been working since I was 13, I had my first internship in high school after being a camp counselor for 2 years. Then I had 7 more internships in college. In the first few internships through my father's connections. And then all the other ones since then I've come to earn on my own. And during that time I kind of learned how to market myself, I was creating websites for hobbies, from middle school to high school creating websites like message board for my friends, or James Bond hobby site. I was just learning on my own basically. And watching two of closest friends at that time use Photoshop and do videos, and basically really involve themselves in the media and I learned all of that through them. And then getting a job after college was difficult for me because I didn't really learn how to network. So I had all these internships, I had my own small business doing websites and graphic design for other small businesses outside the Boston area. And I was just really clueless on how to get a job because there's so much competition for marketing jobs back then and it's even more now. TRAVIS: Right. DAN: And so, I really clamped it down. I said what companies I'm going to work for? And I narrowed it down to EMC Corporation which is a fourth generation technology company, and then I went all-in. And that's kind of how I've always been. When I was choosing my college I want to go to is Bentley. And even though I tried for other colleges I didn't really care about the other colleges, so I didn't get in early in Bentley and I fought to get in. I did an interview on campus, I wrote them a letter, I got straight A's on my last semester, I just did whatever it took to get in. And I and internship in high school so that differentiated me. And then for college, to get a job when I graduated, some leadership positions and organizations, my own business,

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

internships, straight A's, everything. And it still took me months to get a job when I graduated so, I started 6 months before I graduated trying to get a job. And what I noticed during the interview process for EMC, and I met 15 people for 3 different positions and I thought about one job. And the last set of interviews for that job, they were looking at my resume and their eyes stopped at Reebok because I had an internship with Reebok and a lot of smaller companies. But they were familiar with Reebok, that stood out to them because Reebok was a brand they were a familiar with. They were interested in that and that blended to my credibility. And in that moment, that one moment changed my whole view of life, and the workplace, and getting ahead, and careers, because brands open doors. You build your own brand in your career or your business because you're aligned with something that people have heard of before. Whether you get someone famous and you're board of a company, or you worked at a company that you people are familiar with, branding is really the essential key to opening the doors for your career. And so, I got the job from them, and then I started my first blog in end of 2006 called Driven to Succeed and I was posting several times a week. No one was reading it, I wasn't really marketing it, it was just kind for fun and to get my ideas out there, really basic ideas, like networking, and job hunt, and internships, and business. Then it wasn't until March 14, 2007 when I read Tom Peters' famous article The Brand Called You which was really is the reason why Fast Company Magazine has taken off and now has 800,000 subscribers. It's because Tom Peters wrote this massive article about The Brand Called You and how at the end of the day success lies in your hands. And he said something as part of the article that really transformed everything for me. He said the smartest workers of the company are able to create their own unique position, give a unique value to the company. TRAVIS: Right. DAN: So that night I started a personal branded blog which you're probably familiar with at this point. And then within 6 months I was blogging 12 times a week, I was networking, I was writing articles for magazines, I was doing an online TV show, I held the Person Brand Awards. I was doing the Six -- on top of 50 hours at EMC. So I was working over 100 hours a week. My key philosophy was if I sacrifice all this time now it'll position me for future opportunities and I'll thank myself later, checking out big time. TRAVIS: Right. DAN: And I was doing all this, I started my own magazine, I had Donald Trump on the first issue, and it was just building, building, and building. And after 6 months, this was August 1st 2007, Fast Company profiled me, and that changed everything. So if you get profile back then it's much more impact, means there's less competition for media, so any profile is going to get a lot more eyes back then. And so Google invited me to speak at their headquarters, EMC got wind of it, the Vice President there, I got called into her office, I was able to create the first social media position and a Fortune 200 company back in 2007. Now, everyone has these types of

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

positions at big companies, so many agencies and everything now. But I did this, and I really followed what Tom Peters said, he's like, “Create your own unique position” and that's what I did. And I became so valuable to the company I was the social media resource for the company worldwide. So people in all the different divisions in different acquisitions they would contact me to learn about how social media could impact their specific area. And so I went from someone who came into work being like, "Oh, what do I have to do today?" To somebody who everyone wants to try to prefer to ask, “How can we best utilize your skills to advance our department, our business, our product, our services?” So that was really powerful. And that inspired me to go through the hell of trying to get a book published. I got rejected by 70 agents and 2 publishers. Got the book deal on my own in January 2008. And then I learned from one of my mentors, David Meerman Scott that that the publisher's not going to do any of the marketing and selling for me like it probably was 50 years ago. Now you're in the hot seat, you have to do everything, you have to be the chief marketing officer of your own brand, of your own product. And so that's what I did. And so, I made the book successful when it came out. Now that book is in 13 languages and sold tens of thousands of copies. It's 2 editions. And so, really we're trying that one, and that created the demand and the credibility even at my young age, I was 25 when it came out. I started writing when I was 23. And that launched the first area of my business, of millennial branding was the one we weren't coaching, helping executives, authors, entrepreneurs build their own brands using social network tools. Basically a lot of the things that we're doing for myself and EMC. Because that's why EMC hired me for that position, to do what I did for myself but for the company. So Facebook.com/emccorporation, with all those components that I created back then, which is kind of cool to look at because now they have a lot of fans and followers, etc. And so, from there I've kind of gone on a different path. So I spent 5 plus years on the personal branding component especially for the younger generation. And then I swapped. And now I'm kind of building off of that. And I'm going from Me 2.0 which was how to use the social networks to find employment and build your career, to promote yourself which just came out in September, which is more about millennials in future workplace, and going from your first day of work to management roles. And so I built the next phase in my career for the past 2 to 3 years on research. So I've done 16 research studies, and I'm releasing my 17th research study in September with a paperback edition of Promote Yourself, where I examined millennials and then generation Z across 10 different countries and know what their workplace preferences are. So that's going to be a landmark strategy because no one's done it before, which is really exciting. It's taken me 8 months plus to kind of hand that out, get the funding and do the research analysis. So one of the ways I battled my youth at a young age was I would show secondary research. "You don't trust me, I'm young, well here's the research from all these other sources." And now, it's not even the secondary resources, it's like I'm actually doing all this research. So I'm trying to basically make myself bulletproof on topics that I really care about and think that are important. And all my topics fall into one umbrella, and that is employment. TRAVIS: Right.

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

DAN: Because that's such a huge issue now. And that's why a lot of this stuff's taken off because when my first book came out, the economic issues we had, we're not finding jobs. And then the second book came out, still, people are trying to build themselves up through economic collapse. So I'm trying to figure this all out for people, put all the pieces together. And how people go, especially my generation go from college to CEO. So, if you think about it Me 2.0 was college your first job, promote yourself, first job to management and then the next book will eventually be management to executive CEO level. TRAVIS: Right. So let me go back a little bit. There's a lot to cover here. You said the pivot point was whenever they noticed Reebok on your list there. Now, how did you know that they notice that? Did they verbalize that to you or did you just pick up on a cue. Give me some insight on that. DAN: Sure. So if you think about it, this guy, his name was David, one of the people who were interviewing me. His eyes were going down on this huge 2-page resume through all the internships. And then he got to Reebok he stopped. And he said, "Oh, you worked with Reebok. What was that like?" And what's interesting about this Travis is that I really didn't do that much at Reebok. If you're an unpaid marketing intern at Reebok you're doing nothing, you get no opportunities. All the works done by the managers, directors, etc., so I did almost nothing there but the name is so strong that it helped so much. And I did so much more work at the smaller companies where I get to do so many different things, and there's only like 6 people at some of these smaller companies. So that brand carries that much weight. And so, one of the things that I tell people, if they're not already starting a business, when they're in college and whatnot, is try and work for a brand named company when you graduate. Because that brand will help you throughout the rest of your life. If you look at my bio, it's very strategic. Almost every sentence has at least one brand in it. Because again, if you don't know who I am, you definitely know who Time-Warner is, the New York Times is, etc. So it kind of protects me in a way. It's kind of like a shell around me where people can't poke at it and say, "Oh, who are you, or what do you know." Because there's so many brands tied around me at this point that it's almost my protection. TRAVIS: Yeah, it's credibility and positioning, right? And so, I know your audience is speaking really to a different demographic than this show is. Everybody are entrepreneurs on this show. Although there's lessons to learn in the way that you've done this, because the way you positioned yourself is really part of the strategic ways that businesses position themselves. And just like you said, when you don't have credibility, even creating a case study you have to site believable, reliable, trusted resources so that-- Because everyone's constantly thinking as they're listening to someone speak about a product, or a service, or an offering, whatever. There's not much trust out there, right? So you want them to set that distrust aside and focus on the message. And the only way you can do that if you don't have a strong presence in that market is site credible resources, right? And so, you obviously already understood that. And one of the underpinnings that I see going on here with you is you understand the value of earned

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THE ENTREPRENEURâ&#x20AC;&#x2122;S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

media over paid media because almost-- Now, it may have been a necessity thing in the very beginning. Almost everything, the Forbes 30 Under 30, Inc. Magazine, I don't know what order these things come to you in. One normally leads to another, to another, to another. But was it your objective to go after earned media, and do you have any paid media? Kind of explain that strategy to me. DAN: Yeah, I've never done any paid media and I never understood PR, I never understood any of this, I never thought I was a writer. Basically, this is just all stemmed from my love of the topic. The importance I put on it especially from my generation. But everything I write supports my generation, but can be used in leverage for everyone. And that's kind of why my books are read by people of all generations. That's also the new way of thinking. And so, the way I've done it is I fell into it in a sense where I started the blog and then I'm curious to see maybe if I can write or get press or whatnot. So I started pitching, and pitching, and pitching. And then because the first press I got from a Fast Company had such a huge impact on my career, I was kind of seduced by it. And I'm still kind of am, I'm like, "Wow, if that one piece of press can completely change my world in that big of a way, then what if I get more? TRAVIS: Right. DAN: So a lot of this is that I was also really young. When I got this I'm like 23, 24, and I was naturally curious about the impacts certain things I was doing would have on my life, my career, people around me, and I still am. I'm still like, "Wow, if I'm on this podcast, what if this person who's watching and then that turns out to be $10,000?" TRAVIS: Right. DAN: Or what if they know someone, they recommend it. You just don't know the circumstances. So when people, especially publishers are like, what do you do that actually sells books? I always say everything. Because you just don't know if a podcast, an article, a TV segment, or whatnot is going to result in something bigger, or bigger sales, or opportunity, you don't know. So people who put all their eggs in one basket that's not a good strategy. But also being specific at what you're trying to do. So my positioning I think is part of the reason why I think my love for networking and understanding that is not about just do for me, do for me, do for me, and I just give, and give, and give, and then ask for something in return. I think that's really the core of what I've done because I used to be afraid of networking and I figured out that if you help other people out before asking for it in return, that's part of the secret. So I think that's one important secret, and I think the other one is positioning. Like you were saying before where I'm not just trying to be everything to everyone. I'm taking an audience and I'm trying to be the smartest, the best person on the topics that matters to that audience that I care about. So personal brand no one else doing it back then, that to me was obvious. I was passionate about, I outwork anyone. And so I positioned myself on there. And then the next one is millennials in

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

the workplace. Not a lot of competition there. I'm a millennial I was in the workplace so I can relate to them. So, again, that's a good progression for me. So it's not like I'm randomly choosing things to do. I'm choosing things that allow me to create a broader story. For instance, the research I do with Micro--for promote yourself, that gives you a view of millennials and their managers. The next study is Generation Z who's not on the workplace, and millennials who are in the workplace, and trying to figure out those relationships. So it allows me to tie a bigger story. It's like what do Gen Z feel about millennials and what do millennials feel about Gen x and Boomers. And then connecting all that together to formulate different ideas and different solutions for context. So my motto is coming up with ideas. So the ideas are the cornerstone of everything I do. If I'm not thinking of new ideas I'm irrelevant, completely. So new ideas, research to prove the ideas, PR and marketing campaigns to get the ideas out there. And then consulting and speaking in order to work with companies that help themselves, those ideas and problems at their company. TRAVIS: As you're talking and as I'm looking-- I love to put pieces of the puzzle together and I have a burning desire to understand why. And that's a big part of what's made me successful is my curiosity. It's also what gets me trouble at times too. But it just is what it is. In observing you and listening to everything, one thing that is becoming obvious to me and I think you already know this. Although I'd be interested to know if you are completely aware of it. I think you have figured out how to overcome fear because you said something that clues me into this suspicion, is you said you say yes to everything. Now that's an intimidating thing to do, that's a scary thing to do. You come on the show we have no script, and you have to know your stuff cold to be able to talk with no script, and that really scares a lot of people. Imagine if we were doing this live on a stage, and I know you've done things like that. So, are you aware that you've managed to overcome a big element of fear that hold a lot of people back? DAN: There's two good examples for you. The first one is public speaking. I was petrified when I was a-- We had a sophomore speech in high school and I had to speak in front of 30 people about affirmative action, and I got sick the night before, I was petrified of it. And then I just worked at it, and worked at it, and worked at it, and worked at it over the years. Again, figure out the topics I really cared about, made it easier. And now I'm speaking over a thousand people at once. So I think you can definitely overcome it. And the other thing is I do recognize that no matter how successful you are, you're still going to have these huge obstacles. So for me, it's about trying to get people to buy into what I'm trying to do. For instance my first book, rejected by 70 agents and 2 publishers, I kept going. The second book, three and a half years, fired 2 agents, hired 4 consultants, 3 book proposals, almost didn't get it, worked extremely hard on a ridiculous marketing plan. They upgraded the book to hardcover. Again, I did the whole campaign, book comes out on September 3rd of last year, sells thousands of copies, becomes The New York Times most featured best-seller. And then 1 day later I'm in Times Square at my huge book launch sponsored by -- 2 days later, I turned 30. So it's like this huge epic thing that happened to me because I didn't give up and I really invested and I understand one principle

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

that is so key especially in publishing is nobody will invest in you unless you invest in yourself first. And so that principle is so important especially in the arts. So music and any of that. You have to do it for yourself first and really push through. And even today, So for this global study I did, I pitched 150 companies and got rejected 149 times. TRAVIS: Right. DAN: So to go through that amount of rejection, rejection doesn't bother you anymore after that point. And this has been my whole life too. No one needs to answer my emails back in 2006, 2007. But to go through 150 pitches, and only one saying yes. But that one yes is all that matters. This is what I tell young people now when I coach them and then I mentor them, is who cares, all you need is one yes because you can build so much from that one yes. One yes changes everything for you, so it's worth the fight. TRAVIS: Hey, I'm curious. One way I learned to deal-- you know the fight or flight natural thing that your body does, right? DAN: Yeah. TRAVIS: "You go on live in 5, 4, 3--" and there's been a surge of energy the last 30 minutes building up to it, right? And you're at a point to where you could get sick, like you were talking about. And I've learned to program myself as when that comes on, instead of it being a negative thing, I've taught myself to say, "Oh, good stuff's about to happen." I've kind of reprogram myself. So it's not necessarily this fight or flight thing as much an excitement about what's going to happen. And so I've learned to channel it. Have you done a little game like that with yourself? DAN: If I'm going to pitch 150 companies, it has to be something I'm so convinced It's going to be successful that I'm willing to put up with that amount of rejection. That's my secret. And because I've done it before. I've gotten rejected of things that happened, so I know that it will happen. And honestly, I try to do a huge national speaking tour and get the companies to sponsor that. And that's a lot to pitch, some e-companies that didn't work. And to me I put a hold on that one because you know what, I'm going to keep building, building credibility. And then I'm going to go back to all those companies, and every 1 to 2 years just keep going, and going, and going. And then hopefully someday they say yes, there's no guarantee that I'll-- what's the worst that can happen is you spend X amount of hours trying to do it and you get no result. So, you play with these things in your head, but I just know, again, I've been through this over so many times is that one yes. And when you get that one yes it feels so much better than if like it's just given to you. If it was so easy, everyone would do it, and you wouldn't care as much about it. But because I'm like really fighting day in and day out to make certain things happen, once it actually happens it's like tremendous. Because I know if I'm working on a new project, it's going to be successful. It's not about being cocky, it's because good track record, I know what I'm

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

doing, got the connections, everything is lined up for me. So I know that any company that works with me is going to win. And then the other companies will see that and eventually, who knows when it's going to be, we're 40 years old. It'll be a little bit easier and I'll get a little bit fewer rejections. I'm not really sure. But I've been doing this for over 7 years and still a lot of rejections. Maybe to get the third book deal, even after all the success, it could be even more rejections. I'm prepared for that, and I'm fine with that at this point. I've kind of come to grips with the new reality, or the reality of the industries I'm heading into, with media and speaking, which two are the most hardest industries right now because so many books, so many people think they're speakers. People have to compete in such a higher level now because you have to break through the clutter and compete against unlimited amounts of people. TRAVIS: Tons and tons of people out there talking on very similar subject these days. DAN: Yeah. So you have to focus, you have to position yourself, and you got to double down on things you really care about. And then hopefully certain things work out and those create opportunities so you can live and thrive in your world. TRAVIS: Yeah, what I found is earned media has, if I had to put a number to it I would say maybe an impact of tenfold of paid media. Now, I'm a fan of paid media also because you can control it. And a lot of the times the business needs to be able to turn volume on and off like a light switch, because sometimes not being able to meet demand can cause a bad reputation for you also. So you can turn it on and off. Whereas unpaid media, even SEO or other forms that are not controllable like that can overwhelm you. And you can't keep up with things. Now, that's a good problem but it is a problem. And so there's kind of the counterbalance. But the earned media has so much more power behind it because it's almost as if the magazine or the source is putting their stamp of approval on you. So I'd put a multiplier of maybe tenfold. I don't know if I put that in there or not, I think is leading up to-DAN: It goes back to this, the same thing that we're talking about it . If you're just John Smith, you're the owner of XYZ Company, that's great. But people are probably not going to look to hire you and give you a chance. But if you're John Smith CO2 Company that was featured in 2 different publications that people have heard of, then people start to care a little bit more. TRAVIS: Right. So starting today, what does a business owner in your opinion need to do to get the type of credibility and recognition. Maybe they don't have the amount of time. You've invested an incredible amount of time, over thousand interviews, is that right? DAN: Thirteen hundred. TRAVIS: Yeah. And that's an incredible amount of time dedicated to that. Most people can't dedicate that kind of time. But what do you feel like would be the 3, 4, 5, key things that a

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

business owner should do to position themselves, use in someone of the strategies that you've used. DAN: Yeah. One is take a niche, as in don't try and be everything to everyone, you'll be nothing to no one. Really focus on specific market like, the best use of your product and good service and almost ignore everyone else. TRAVIS: Right. DAN: I think the second one is, and this is what's really hard, you have to be a content creator. You have to be able to produce content, and really publish that online and push it out to certain publications that your audience is in tuned to, so you can reach them. And a new world now where all these elements, they need as much content as possible in order to make more money. So, if you write violent articles and you're okay with that you can get published in some of these Fast Companies, and Forbes, and all these outlets, that you probably couldn't have 5 years ago. There's a lot of opportunities for violent articles now, I'm writing several right now for my September launch. That's a huge opportunity, I would say that partnerships are really important. So if you don't have all the resources, obviously you can outsource, but partner with other companies that don't compete with you. But sell it to the same people you're trying to sell to. I think partnerships over the years have been much easier to obtain, and the people are more welcome because there's so much competition in order to kind of break through the noise having other resources can help you enable that. TRAVIS: So partner maybe with vendors or someone that is the vertical that is just before you. Partner with them and come up with a content strategy. DAN: Yeah, and then network, right? So anyone who is kind of a gatekeeper in your world, or somebody influential, invite them to events, get out there and meet them. Promote them, do whatever you have to do to get in front of them. Part of my thing if I help everyone else first with their books, they'll want to help me out with my book. TRAVIS: Right. DAN: And that's why I don't publish a book every year, because I need enough years to these books in order to help out enough people. So when the next book comes out it's that much bigger. TRAVIS: Right. Do you ever struggle with finding good topics for your content? DAN: I'm pretty burned out, I've written over a thousand articles since 2007, and it's definitely getting harder. And the way I do it, I just base them around new research I'm doing, that's what

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

keeps-- So I don't write as many articles on a weekly basis, it's more about, I do 6 research studies in a year. I take elements of the findings of each study. And those become articles that I write. So, it's more driven is then I went too full, then it's not just out there, people see an article I've written. But I'm also getting the research out there which shows credibility and supports the companies that sponsor the research. TRAVIS: Right. It becomes difficult to keep up with all of your content, and I'm speaking for myself here too. I've got to keep a core library of what I've wrote on so that I don't cover the topic too closely or too repetitively. Sometimes you can slice a topic and really drive important points home on four different angles, right? But you need to keep track of what you have written and what you're missing. And that becomes a system into itself also. Have you built out a system that stay on top of those things? DAN: No, my content development has gone way done. I don't really even update Facebook or the social networks as much anymore. To me my model has changed so it's less about where I'm in consulting and more about selling to execs in the HR department and TV producers. And I'd rather just connect with them directly through email. It's just more effective for me, or on Twitter, because we're all on Twitter for journalists. Otherwise, there's no real value for me to be honest because it's smart for people whose models are selling products, as in 5 EBooks, or an online course or something because then you're selling to the individual. But if you're selling to companies, it's not as impactful in my opinion. And I've been in the game since the beginning. And it's really competitive too, right? So, people are falling thousands and thousands of people on Twitter, or Facebook, it's where you get content. It's really not sustained unless you pay for it. For Facebook only less than 10% of your post are seen by your followers unless you put money on it. It's all pay to play now, and so for me I'd rather, because of my model I'd rather reach out to the exact decision makers and then see what happens. TRAVIS: It's precise. I like that approach. You'd be surprised. Many people go 20 years without ever figuring out how to get that precise. It saves you a fortune on marketing if you can do that within your market, right? DAN: Absolutely. TRAVIS: Let me ask you, what book or program made an impact on you related to business that you'd recommend and why? You may have already told me what it was. DAN: Yeah, so the article, The Brand Called You by Tom Peters, it's completely changed my life. He's the most influential figure in my life. TRAVIS: Right.

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

DAN: It's a lot of different books, To Sell is Human by Dan Pink. I think Dan Pink is amazing. He's someone I look up to. I would say Now, Discover Your Strengths by Marcus Buckingham. He wrote the foreword for my book, he's incredible. I say StrengthsFinder by Tom Rath, he's another person who mentors me. They're all rock stars. People that I look up to but I think their books are extremely valuable for the building blocks of what it takes to be successful, whether it's working for a company or starting your own company. Because it really is about your strengths. So I'm weak in a lot of areas and I avoid those areas, it's a waste of my time. I'd rather just double down on my strengths like Marcus would say, and focus solely on things that I really care about. I have the knowledge and are in the best position to take advantage of. TRAVIS: Right. I really like Daniel Pinks angle on a lot of things. DAN: He's amazing, yeah. TRAVIS: What's one of your favorite tools or pieces of technology that you've recently discovered if any, that you'd recommend to other business owners and why? DAN: It's a great question. I'm really basic in technology so I don't really use that many tools. I'm all about the basics. So I guess that latest one that I've started to use is Google Calendar just because it syncs with my phone. I know, it's funny because I'm a millennial, I'm only 30 years old. TRAVIS: Right. DAN: Unless the technology is really going to help me like Uber, I use. OpenTable I like a lot, I use. But unless it's really going to help me I'm not going to just use it for the sake of using it, you know. And that's why a lot of these apps and a lot of these companies fail is because it seems very cool in the beginning. And then you ask yourself do I really need this? It would be a complete waste of time for me. TRAVIS: Yeah, good perspective. Interesting I find that surprising coming from a guy your age. But I like it, I like to hear that. DAN: And you'd be surprised because a part of the American Express dated last year, part of the result was the young people would rather have FaceTime, they'd rather lock into a corporate office than tweet and text others. TRAVIS: I think one of the things that we're missing today with all the technology is the ability to sit in silence and go deep on some topics. And to go deep it takes some time to get there, and that's where the real gems, and that's where the real gold is. And so few people ever get there because they're distracted by their phone, they're distracted by their computer, they're distracted

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

by a lot of things. And so, all of these apps seem in my opinion to keep people stuck at the surface and not thinking on a deeper level. And I think that's one of the things that you've been able to do is go very deep, and I commend you for that. I'm really impressed. Your folks, they must have had some type of conditioning, a part to do with this. Did your dad do this, your mom? Give me a little bit of a background of how you got to have this perspective that you have, which is very unusual by the way. DAN: Yeah. My dad is a traditional businessman. He had this food distributing company that he sold 20 years ago. And now he's a travel agent. So he's basically retired but he won't admit it. And then his brother started -- he owns the Schawbel Corporation, so he gets to use my last name. And he just sold a part of his company, but that's a lot of entrepreneurs who come for him. And then my grandfather on my mother's side was big into real estate. But honestly, I didn't set out to become an entrepreneur. It happened because I found something that I really cared about and then I did whatever I could to figure out how I can make money from it, so I committed to doing it full-time. And I'm telling you, the lifestyle change, I think people need to start thinking about what about my lifestyle to be like and then make decisions to be able to pull it off. I think that's the key that a lot of people are missing. There's a lot of people especially where I am right now with 8 floors of all these young entrepreneurs. A lot of them are just trying to avoid corporate America, or do it because it's the cool thing to do and they'll be respected by their peers or something. This is how the conversations are now here. I think people need to do it because it's something that they really like and put their heart into, and because they want to create a certain lifestyle that fits who they are basically. And one of the things that I'm thinking about in how to kind of position management 2.0 really is career or what it is, it is a collection of the decisions you make on a daily basis, that's it. TRAVIS: Yeah, I agree with you. Looking at it from my own perspective. I like nice high-end watches, I like high-end exotic cars, but they don't define me. And I don't wear those in a way that is offensive or in people's face. And that's kind of part of what I hear you saying. You can be interested in something but it's got to come from the core of your being rather than owning a ways because it's a cool watch and everyone will think you're cool for it, right? DAN: And the reason for that is because it's how you come off, right? You can genuinely tell that I'm excited about this, I'm interested in it, I'll make the sacrifices, whatever it takes, let's do it. And there's a big difference between someone who's like that and then somebody who's just trying to get a paycheck. Huge difference, right? And attitude. And the things that's most fascinating to me is that the number 1 that recruiters look for when recruiting students three things that ---. TRAVIS: Hey Dan, I'm sorry, you cut out there. You said the number 1 thing they look for is what?

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

DAN: So the number 1 thing that college recruiters look for when hiring recent graduates and one of the top 3 things that managers are looking for when deciding who to promote is attitude. If you have a positive attitude, it's big time, right? Attitude will really help you get the promotion, or get a job in the first place. And the only way to truly have a positive attitude is to be the right workplace environment that kind of feel challenge, you're working with people you enjoy working with, you're doing something that plays your strengths. And it's the right location, right company, etc. So, that's part of why I think people of my age are jumping from job to job every 2 years is they're trying to find that type of situation. And companies now, they're hiring for cultural fit over any qualifications because they can easily train you and you'll learn what's necessary for you to do your job. So, from your perspective, if you're looking to get a job, you want to choose a company to work for, or create a company that connects with who you are and the type of people you want to work with, the culture, etc. And if you want to hire people as an entrepreneur then you want to hire people who really fit in, who have the right attitude, who are really excited about, who have been tweeting it for like 4 months, who will do whatever it takes to be part of your company, those are the people that you want. And because of the competition with the jobs now I think companies are just being more picky for those kind of people. TRAVIS: Right, I totally agree. Hey, what quote would best summarize your belief or attitude in business? DAN: Well, I think the one I said before that's extremely important is "No one will invest in you unless you invest in yourself first." It's kind of what I live by. If I don't work really hard, why would someone else want to put their money into me, it just doesn't make sense. Think about it. You're an artist. Why would Def Jam or whomever want to sign you unless you already have an audience of hundreds of thousands of people who come out to watch you play. You have to already be successful in order to become successful. TRAVIS: Right. Great advise. Hey, how do people connect with you? DAN: Yeah, you can search my name Dan Schawbel. First website is mine danschawbel.com, I'm on all the social networks of course, Instagram you name it.

End of Interview TRAVIS: Excellent, wonderful, thank you so much for that. Remember that you can find all the links to the books and the resources mentioned here in this show in the show notes. Just go to rockstarentrepreneurnetwork.com. Now, before I close the show today, I have a quote from the famous Bruce Lee, and the quote reads, "The successful warrior is that average man with laser like focus." Think about it. This is Travis Lane Jenkins signing off for. To your incredible success, take care my friend.

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THE ENTREPRENEUR’S RADIO SHOW Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs that Grow Your Business

How We Can Help You We know that finding someone that you can trust online today is hard and that so many “so called gurus” are self-‐appointed and have never really even done what they teach you to do. That’s exactly why we created the Double Your Profits Business Accelerator. This is an exclusive offer for our fans at a fraction of its normal cost. Here's what to expect. We'll Schedule a 'One on One' private session, where we'll take the time to dive deep into your business and tell you what is missing, so that you can have your best year ever! We'll do this by performing a S.W.O.T. Analysis. This tells us your Strengths, Weaknesses, Opportunities and Threats within your business. This will be an eye opener for YOU, for several reasons, however some of the most common reasons are. As the 'Business Owner' it’s difficult to see the big picture of your own business because you’re in the middle of a daily management. And you are too emotionally involved to completely impartial. This is a common problem for EVERY business owner. It doesn’t matter if you are a one-man army, or an army of 150, the problem is still the same.

Travis Lane Jenkins Business Mentor-Turn Around Specialist Radio Host of The Entrepreneurs Radio Show “Conversations with Self-made Millionaires and High-level Entrepreneurs That Grow Your Business"

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