NZ Entrepreneur Issue 16

NEW ZEALAND’S E-MAG FOR ENTREPRENEURS AND BUSINESS OWNERS

March 2014

To Make the Phone Ring, Put a Value on Your Own Time

Questions with John-Daniel TraskofMindscape

Page 12

Page 14

When is the Right Time to Start a Business Page 20

Inspirational Stories ...plus heaps more inside!

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2

Contents 4

From the Editor

6

Flying The Flag

12

To make the phone ring, put a value on your own time

14

10 Questions with John-Daniel Trask of Mindscape

20

Lessons from the trenches - Hard learned lessons from entrepreneurs in training

22

Tony McDonald - McDonalds-IT

24

Young Enterprise

26

Hamish Dobbie

29

Entrepreneurial Intelligence

30

Pete’s Lemonade - An Idea Inside A Bottle

32

Parting Shot

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ABOUT / Short and sharp, New Zealand Entrepreneur is a free e-magazine delivering thought provoking and enlightening articles, industry news and information to forward-thinking entrepreneurs.

EDITOR / Nick Harley

From the Editor

ART DIRECTOR / Jodi Olsson GROUP EDITOR / Nick Harley CHIEF FINANCIAL OFFICER / Alastair Noble CONTENT ENQUIRIES / Phone Richard on (09) 522 7257 or email

B

uilding a business would be so easy if we didn’t make any mistakes. If only we could sail through it all doing everything correctly, at exactly the right time and by spending the minimum amount of money possible. The reality is cruel sometimes.

richardl@espiremedia.com

Like many entrepreneurs, I’ve lost countless hours on sales and work that didn’t make it over the line, spent thousands of dollars on ideas and businesses that never produced any return, encountered problems I just never saw coming and just simply made some big mistakes.

Newmarket, Auckland 1151, NZ

ADVERTISING ENQUIRIES / Phone Richard on (09) 522 7257 or email richardl@espiremedia.com ADDRESS / NZ Entrepreneur, C/- Espire Media, PO Box 99758,

WEBSITE / nzentrepreneur.co.nz

ISSN 2253-5683

Entrepreneurs by nature are problems solvers, and it’s how we approach these problems that defines us, finding solutions and answers without giving up when things become difficult. In my view, an entrepreneur that thinks they know it all already is a dangerous thing.

This month I’ve met many inspirational and successful people who all share a common trait - They have all made many mistakes and have many stories to tell, getting it wrong sometimes is just a reality of the journey. So next time you meet with a fellow entrepreneur, rather than talk about the good things they’ve done, why not ask them what the biggest mistake they have made is. You might be suprised!

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Nick Email nick@nzentrepreneur.co.nz

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ENTREPRENEURSHIP

Flying The Flag Nexus Developments Limited is a small Wellington based design and marketing company specialising in the development of display hardware for the international flag and banner industry.

Here we talk to Peter Hume about how the company got started and his advice for budding entrepreneurs.

M

y first ‘real’ job was Sales Coordinator for Wellington headquartered marine safety company Hutchwilco, and while in this role I completed a BCA at Victoria University. I worked my way up the ranks at Hutchwilco with a number of roles, ultimately focusing on product development and production, and was a director when we were purchased by Chemring Group, a large English corporation with diverse global interests.

changes, including the moving of Hutchwilco’s head office to its life jacket manufacturing facility in Auckland. My family was keen to remain in Wellington, so instead of following the ‘marine team’ to Auckland, in 1997 I purchased the small flag manufacturing division Hutchwilco had been operating out of Wellington. This operation had been one of my responsibilities within the company, and had been trading as ‘Flagmakers’ for some years.

Chemring’s ownership was short lived, but brought about a number of often demanding, but also very educational

After ‘working for a boss’ for so long I had a great desire to ‘have a go’ myself, and felt that the number of roles I had undertaken in the past would provide the necessary skills

The Flagtrax system installed in Melbourne

to run my own company. Well, they definitely helped, but needed much ‘fortification’ over the following years as our staff increased from 13 to 30 and our turnover quadrupled.

I say helped, but that is an understatement. My time and my various roles at Hutcwilco (a medium sized company involved in a wide range of activities), provided a great grounding on how to run a commercial manufacturing and marketing company. The arrival of Chemring Group, and their very disciplined corporate approach to business was also invaluable, and highlighted the important link between a formal and practical approach to effective management.

While the majority of Flagmakers’ revenue was generated by the sale of flags, we recognised that flags were of little use in the absence of hardware on which to display them. I mean flagpoles of course, and even more importantly, brackets on lampposts – the type you see in their thousands throughout New Zealand to display ‘street flags’. Consequently we focused a significant amount of our resources on the development of flag display hardware, in particular hardware relating to street flag display, which offered the greatest potential. We supplied numerous street flag

brackets to councils and other major users, and specialised in marketing and manufacturing high quality street flags. As a result we secured an estimated 80% of the market, which we retained for many years.

Traditional national flags, advertising flags, decorative and portable flags were all important to us as well, but street flags represented our most important market. A major barrier to street flag sales however, was the cost of raising and lowering them. Nearly all sites are in main streets, and this necessitated the use of cherry pickers, bucket trucks, trained technicians, traffic management plans, safety compliance etc. As time went on these complexities and costs increased, and it was not uncommon for the cost of the street flags to be less than the cost of raising and lowering them.

Our product development team consisted of me and our talented qualified industrial designer, John Woollett – both of us keen ‘hands on’ enthusiasts with a love of making things, and making things better. We had already had some successes with a unique range of portable flag and banner display products consisting of the Flexipole, Xtendapole and comprehensive Euro Range. We were retailing these through Flagmakers and wholesaling overseas, primarily to Australia, but were constantly on the lookout for a system to get street flags up and down lampposts. We went down the path of using ropes and pulleys and levers to raise support arms, but these approaches were not new. Similar products are renowned for their weaknesses, especially in windy situations, and after all, we were from Wellington! We then hit upon the idea of using a flexible rod to push the flags up a track. This showed promise for relocation of not just flags and banners, but also lighting, signage etc. and we protected this concept with patents.

The challenge was to get the top and side of a rectangle (a flag) against a flat surface at the same time as it was pushed up the track, and a double sliding mechanism was developed to overcome this.

As a result our ‘PushPull’ system was born, which we initially incorporated into a product we call FlagTrax. This product started to attract interest in New Zealand, but it (and other products we had developed) had the potential to succeed further afield.

With the assistance of NZTE (New Zealand Trade & Enterprise) we undertook a sales and marketing approach, primarily to a select number of major European flag manufacturers, where we already enjoyed some success with our Euro range of portable flag and banner displays.

With the promising potential of our display products

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ENTREPRENEURSHIP

8

and systems, and with a succession plan in mind, I sold

with our succession plan we now have Chris Souness, a new

Flagmakers in 2011, but only after separating out the small

director and shareholder on board. Chris comes from a strong

hardware design division which we retained, including the

sales and business advisory background, and as Sales and

name, Nexus Developments Limited.

Marketing Director we are now taking our products directly

Since 2011, four of us, including designer John Woollett,

to end users in New Zealand, rather than through a local

have focused on further product development, and the

distributor as we have done previously. We will also focus

establishment of overseas distributors. It hasn’t been easy, and

on expanding our overseas distribution through licensed

the common prediction that things take twice as long and cost

manufacturers/distributors.

twice as much as anticipated has been born out.

Over the years we have had our successes and setbacks. Luck,

We continued to pursue the European market (fully

opportunities, timing, and ‘giving it a go’ have all played a

acknowledging that in the midst of the global financial

role. The lessons to be learned are many and never ceasing,

crisis the timing was appalling), but managed to sell some

and while there is no shortage of ‘advisors’ happy to make

reasonable numbers of our New Zealand manufactured Euro

their contribution with the benefit of hindsight, decisions need

range there, until we came to an arrangement to have this

to be made without this luxury, and that’s the interesting bit.

range manufactured by a partner in the UK.

Experiences are increasingly beneficial as time progresses,

We also have the Euro range and FlagTrax manufactured in

and my experiences suggest it will take twice as long and cost

Australia, and FlagTrax will be manufactured this year in

twice as much, so be prepared for this. The people around

the US by our Michigan based US partner, Consort Group.

you will also play a huge role – you need people with the

Consort launched FlagTrax in the US at the SGIA Expo, a

necessary skills, as well as people who you respect, and will

huge trade show held in Orlando last October, where it won

respect you. You will be spending a lot of time together,

an SGIA Product of the Year Award.

and often personal friends will not make the best partners,

With some unique products to take to market a greater

directors, employees, advisors. Choose carefully!

emphasis on sales generation is now needed, and in line

If you think you do have a unique product or service, do

your research before spending a lot of time and money.

Unfortunately, many good ideas have been thought of before, and it is too easy to get so wrapped up in your own ‘eureka’ ideas that reason can be overlooked. It can take a lot of effort to replace a steady job and income with a successful venture that will match the financial returns and security it offers, let alone surpass them. This is in no way suggesting you don’t take the plunge, but from my own experience, enthusiasm needs to be tempered with reality, and some (yes, boring) homework is vital. It can feel like a time waster, and can result in disappointment if the results you discover are not what you were hoping for, but better this than pain further down the track.

Is your proposed product or service as unique as you think?

And will a sufficient number of people be prepared to pay money for it? The world is awash with truly superbly designed and manufactured products, and many are incredibly well priced. Many are made in low labour cost countries of course, so if you have a product in mind, where will it be made? Local costs are high, but overseas manufacture typically requires volume, and it is likely you will be starting with high cost, low volume manufacturing – not ideal when it comes to rapid market penetration. Also beware of locking off a design too early, especially if expensive tooling is involved.

Our more recent focus has been on disruptive products that displace services. While products in general become better and

hour with a lawyer. For this reason, products that reduce service costs have particular appeal, and our FlagTrax does just that.

Street flags can be raised and lowered in seconds, at a cost of, say, $5.00 each, compared to the previous method requiring bucket trucks and all of the associated costs, which in some areas can cost up to $100.00 per flag. FlagTrax can therefore save large users hundreds of thousands of dollars over time, and recoup the initial capital costs in a very short period. Our new FlagTrax Duo utilises the same technology as Flagtrax, and enables both flags and decorative LED Eco lighting to be raised and lowered from ground level, providing a true 24/7

more attractively priced, services in New Zealand and other

display without the previous operational cost.

developed counties remain disproportionally high. You can buy

While doing your research and market validation, always

“

a flat screen TV for $400, or spend the same amount spending an

Is your proposed product or service as unique as you think? And will a sufficient number of people be prepared to pay money for it?

bear in mind the opportunity cost of your product or service.

We all tend to identify our competition as those products or services very similar to ours, but this is not always the case. In Nexus’ situation councils may for example, decide to invest in more flower beds rather than flags. If you have a consumer product in mind you must be mindful of similar products, as well as the alternative opportunities consumers may decide take when spending their money – or they may choose not to spend it at all.

Your ‘eureka’ product may already be under development with another company, but may not have reached the market, or may have done so in the past and either failed, or lived out its life. Alternatively, there may be people or companies far better equipped or resourced to make the most of your new idea, and this can be to your benefit, or otherwise. I have heard stories of inventors approaching large overseas manufacturers who have stated, “If it’s patented and it’s good we will consider it, if it’s not patented and is good we will copy it”.

As well as an interest in products, I have always enjoyed working with figures, and spend a lot of time with 9

ENTREPRENEURSHIP

spreadsheets. I consider a budget and monthly profit and loss calculations and comparisons essential. These force you to think of your operation as a commercial business, to consider all of the factors involved, and it provide a series of regular snapshots of performance. They identify trends, enable action to be taken sooner rather than later, and should ensure you are never in for any surprises, nice or nasty!

The success of commercial entities is ultimately measured by one thing, numbers, and while many other aspects are vital, after an initial start-up period (which, don’t forget, it will take twice as long and cost twice as much as originally anticipated), to succeed the appropriate financial returns must be forthcoming.

IP protection is something we have spent a lot of money on in the past, and in some ways it can be a mixed blessing. In New Zealand in particular, we have used design registrations to discourage copyists, and this has largely been successful.

For our more important IP we have applied for and been granted a number of patents both locally and overseas. These can be expensive, and for small New Zealand companies the question always remains, “What do we actually do if copying takes place, especially overseas, and by large powerful organisations”? The resources (money and time), distraction and uncertainty involved in litigation can be disconcerting.

Having said this, in appointing distributors we have found the increased level of security offered by formal IP protection assists credibility and is definitely a positive influencing factor, and we will continue to seek and support IP protection where we consider it necessary.

I have already mentioned the complementary nature of our team; we all get along well, and have different skills that combine to make an effective company. We pride ourselves on acting with integrity, and enjoy working with our suppliers and customers alike. We feel that the trust derived from this approach is positive on both a business and personal levels, and it is one I would recommend to those getting into business.

In summary, if you are keen to take the plunge and have a great idea or opportunity, do so, it’s exciting and rewarding – just do so with eyes wide open, look long and hard before you leap! Utilise all of the knowledge you have gained in previous roles, do your research, in particular market validation and competitor analysis in its widest sense. Is the need you think and hope exists really there, and to what extent? Crunch some numbers, and seek advice from experts when possible.

“

If you are keen to take the plunge and have a great idea or opportunity, do so, it’s exciting and rewarding – just do so with eyes wide open

To find out more about Peter and Nexus Developments visit www.nexusdevelopments.com 10

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BUSINESS LESSONS

To Make the Phone Ring, Put a

Value on your Own Time

By Debbie Mayo-Smith

Y

our phone is not ringing as much as before, companies are taking longer to reach a buying decision and referrals are slowing. Combine this with poor time management and what do you have? Disaster.

So what can you do to maintain sales and income?

One option is to understand the value of your time and organise your day to earn more. Here are eight concepts to help you do just that.

�

MONEY HOURS

Organise your day around the “money” hours.

These are the hours that you can and should be talking with your prospects and customers. Going out on appointments. Calling on the telephone. Finding new customers and seeking opportunities with existing ones.

The money hours are too valuable to waste on non-revenue generating activities. Confine these activities to before or after your money hours. This requires discipline, doesn’t it?

How much easier is it to do a bit of paperwork rather than picking up the phone?

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�

BEST TIME TO CALL When calling, persistency pays.

Sometimes up to six calls are required.

The best time to call to get real people willing to do business is between 3.30pm and 4.45pm. The best time to get a “live” conversation is between 3.30pm and 5.30pm. Friday is the best. Monday is the worst.

The best results are obtained within 24 hours when returning incoming phone calls. And leave a good message.

�

PROSPECTING HOURS

Dedicate a certain percentage of your money hours to prospecting for new business. Vary the time of day when you contact individuals to increase the probability of reaching them. As this is an activity most people hate, put it in your schedule. Then do it. Pick up the phone and - as all telemarketers are told - call with a smile on your face.

�

FOLLOW UP

Do what you say you’ll do. Ensure you document your follow-up immediately. If you set it aside for later you’ll either forget to do it or you won’t remember all the details.

Documentation can be your paper diary or, even better, your computer. Your proprietary or email software has the ability to be your memory and prompt you automatically.

You can write notes, add attachments, - but more importantly, you can set a date and time for it to pop up and remind you to do the follow-up.

Use these prompting functions to help you to maintain your follow-ups when faced with a continuum of “not yets”.

Persistence pays off, yet very few people persevere when they don’t get an immediate “yes”. The prompt is also superb for those longer-term “call me back in six months” follow-ups.

To make it easy, standardise your most frequently used follow-up pieces for easy production and distribution.

A little extra advice: with so much email clutter and spam filtering, if possible, post the marketing or proposal material in addition to emailing. Emailing allows recipients to share and forward it. However, many large corporations and government departments strip attachments or limit mailbox sizes, so the recipient may never see your email or attachments. Posting a print version ensures they do.

�

KEEP IMPROVING

Make sure you schedule non-money hours for professional development such as sales skills, people skills or improving industry and/or product knowledge.

�

KNOW YOUR STATISTICS

Sales don’t appear magically out of thin air.

The “yes” you got today from a customer was generated by an activity that occurred in the past. One of the biggest problems for small business owners and the self-employed is being too busy and allowing marketing and business development to slip off the radar.

In other words, not following point 1 - using the money hours correctly. If your sales funnel is four months and you were busy in February, neglecting to create activity, June will be unusually quiet.

Here are other statistics you should know: How many phone calls or emails to make contact with an individual?

How many contacts to a qualified lead? Qualified leads to proposals? Proposals or contracts to customers? Calls per hour? Follow-up attempts before dropping?

� �

PRODUCTIVE DOWN TIME

Always, always have something to read for flight delays, waiting rooms, standing in lines.

Use your time driving to listen to educational, business podcasts or CDs. With headphones, you can also use the time to make call backs.

JUST ONE MORE If you can discipline yourself to make

just one extra contact a day with someone new, you’ll have about 250 extra contacts in a year.

Debbie Mayo-Smith (BSc Hons Econ) is an International Motivational Business Speaker and Managing Director of SuccessIS! and a leading specialist in easy practical ways to improve business profitability, personal productivity and Internet marketing. Debbie lives in NZ and travels the world speaking, writing and training. By the way, if you’d like to get lots of neat tricks like this, plus marketing and business development tips, why not enrol for her free newsletter?

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I N T E RV I E W

Questions with John-Daniel Trask

ofMindscape

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Hi John-Daniel, what’s the story

I had never made it a secret that it was my intention to

behind your business, how did it

operate my own business one day. I’d even bought shares in

get started and why? How did the

Intergen hoping I could eventually buy enough to be one of

founders meet?

the major shareholders.

Mindscape was founded in early 2007 by Jeremy Boyd,

When that plan failed (the shares were just too tightly

Andrew Peters and I. We each took a third stake in the

held), I decided it was time to set out on my own. I knew I

business. I had started working at Intergen in 2004, fresh out

wanted business partners – I have my strengths, but I’m also

of university. I’d been assigned to work with Jeremy, who

reasonably aware of my weaknesses. I approached Jeremy

had also been one of the people to interview me and hired me

and Andrew independently and asked each of them: “If you

into Intergen in the first place. Jeremy is a brilliant software

could have one other person involved, who it would be?”

engineer and I was always in awe of his ability to build

They both responded with each other’s name! We met at a bar

software, teach people and show sound judgement. Andrew

after work in late 2006 and agreed with a handshake that we’d

joined Intergen later and was also a solid engineer.

leave and build a product company.

We decided on software development tools for our product

cash in reserve. It boggles my mind how so many people in

domain as it was an area we were experienced in. Simply put,

our society not only never save, but are running a negative

software development tools typically sucked. We wanted to

personal balance sheet.

build great tools that empowered developers to build more

Even when I was employed prior to starting Mindscape I

robust software while also enjoying the experience. We achieved all of that, but it has been a long road with many lessons learned along the way.

would feel extremely uncomfortable if my cash reserves dropped too much. I think I gained this trait as a benefit of growing up in a family where my parents were self-employed.

We also invested in several businesses since starting our

We discussed finances, business and the share market at the

own and have enjoyed watching them grow. We were also

family dinner table every night. My father helped me start

involved in Givealittle, an online fundraising platform

investing in shares at a very young age and I read all I could

that was sold to the Telecom Foundation in late 2012.

about business.

Givealittle has helped raise millions of dollars for New Zealanders in need and I’ve always been proud to have helped bring that vision to life.

Mindscape itself was bootstrapped, meaning we did service work while building a product range. We were extremely fortunate to get a service agreement with Microsoft New Zealand on our first day of officially starting our company –

How did you survive those early days?

in no small thanks to Jeremy’s strong relationship with them.

Did you have any money? Did you make

That contract gave us a significant boost in capital reserves

any sacrifices? How did you pay the

and enabled us to reinstate a small salary for ourselves.

bills and keep growing your business?

When I was about nine years old, I read an article about

I started Mindscape when I was 23 years old and therefore

Bill Gates. One part of that story has stuck with me all

didn’t have significant outgoings beyond my rent &

this time. Gates was a perpetual worrier, and was always

food budget. I wasn’t a big partier and didn’t have any

convinced Microsoft was on the cusp of going out of

particularly expensive hobbies. I had built up cash reserves

business – despite its success. He took the approach that

to the point where I was sure I could live about 12 months

Microsoft should always have at least enough cash to

without taking in any income. Thankfully I ended up only waiting a month or so before reinstating my salary.

I’d grown up knowing that you always needed to keep some

survive at 12 months without earning a dollar. It resonated strongly with me and I’m always trying to apply that principal to myself & my businesses.

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I N T E RV I E W

It’s been hammered home consistently in my life that integrity is a virtue to look for above almost all others Have you experienced any bad times?

What was the most painful lesson you’ve had to learn in business?

The most painful experience was when one of the founders decided to leave the business after about a year. It came as a significant shock to me that he would do this after agreeing from the outset to a significantly longer period. We had some cash in the business at the time, but I can tell you right now that it was not earmarked for buying back a third of the outstanding shares!

We did buy those shares back and for a while it was significantly stressful to me. Like many bad things that occur, you often look back and realise you were focused too heavily on a door closing and not enough on another one opening. Today I own 50% of the business with Jeremy owning the other 50%. The amount we paid to buy back third of the shares looks very small now.

The lesson here was about integrity. I always looked for it, but it’s been hammered home consistently in my life that integrity is a virtue to look for above almost all others. If you cannot trust somebody then you won’t get very far. I’m thankful that Jeremy is one of the most high-integrity people I have ever met, it’s helped our business go from strength to strength.

Interestingly enough, if you read The Snowball, a substantial and thought-provoking biography of Warren Buffett, you’ll find that integrity is the number one trait that Warren looks for in the people that he invests with. Through my experiences I can see why.

16

Is the business vision you have today the same as the one that you started with?

Absolutely not! If you’re not constantly revising what you’re doing and where you’re going then you’re dead meat. Furthermore, if you’ve never been in business before then you’re in for a surprise. I smile every time I see a new business owner think they know what the market wants.

I don’t say that as an insult, I was in the exact same boat.

In particular I had to up skill on marketing. I came from a technology background and generally believed if you build something, amazing people will find it and use it.

Our most recent product is a testament to continually adapting our vision. We released Raygun (www.raygun.io) in early 2013. It’s a cloud hosted crash reporting product that supports every major programming language & platform.

It automatically collects data when an application crashes and our service groups those crashes and helps developers fix their software faster. It uses a software-as-a-service (SaaS) model of monthly recurring revenue. Raygun has been growing fast and part of that comes from supporting all development platforms – not just Microsoft’s platforms. This is an alteration from our original vision, but an important one.

Do entrepreneurs need lots of money or external funding to build a big business?

Business certainly takes capital, but the amount needed to start can be small. We formed Mindscape with $10,000 from each founder, giving us a total starting capital of $30,000. We were frugal with that and bought the bare minimum required, we contributed our own existing computers to the mix so as to not need to spend on new PCs etc. We then got contract work to bring more capital into the business.

Too much money at the outset can also be an issue. There’s truth in the fact that constraints breed creativity. It’s far more common to see a successful business run by somebody who watches every dollar than one where a company spends freely on everything. I’m certainly somebody who keeps an eye on spending. We were fortunate that Xero launched just before us so from day one we had everything in Xero. A day doesn’t go past without me checking our profit & loss – having a great accounting software experience from the start helped ensure that our team (with a background in programming, all of us) learned the essentials of accounting.

One key signal that a business won’t be going far is when they spend up large on having an amazing work space from day one.

If that’s the best place to spend your limited start-up capital then there is something seriously wrong. Our first office was a tiny box on top of a drug & alcohol rehab clinic – our daily elevator rides were with people in seriously bad shape. You probably don’t need to start with something quite so rough, but I’d warn against investing heavily in wants rather than needs.

John Daniel with Mindscape co-founder Jeremy Boyd

What are the three most important business skills you would advise up and coming entrepreneurs to develop?

“

Business is exhausting.

Learning to ride that roller coaster is important for your mental health & for your business

Focus on the money. To a business, cash is your air supply and therefore needs to be front of mind a lot of the time. I see too many people taking the Silicon Valley style approach of growth with no revenue. Every business could have charged sooner, probably charged more and done better.

If you’re delivering value then you absolutely should be charging for it.

Worse yet, people who don’t/won’t pay for your service are the worst type of person to have use your service – they don’t value it. They’re a cost to you. They won’t magically change into paying customers one day. My experience (shared with many others) is that the less somebody pays, the more of a pain in the backside they are – high expectations, high support demands etc.

Learn how to survive the roller coaster. Business is exhausting.

Learning to ride that roller coaster is important for your mental health & for your business. There are certainly times where you may feel like it’s not worth the effort, but you need to soldier on because there’s no value in dwelling on a low. Get busy getting to the next peak. Everyone can manage this in different ways, but you do need to figure out what works for you.

Be more introspective. There’s a million self-help books out there and I don’t necessarily recommend any particular one, but I would say that they can help improve self-awareness and situational awareness. For example, there are times where I’ve found I need to be fairly ruthless in avoiding certain people due to their general negativity. Being aware of what helps you succeed and what hinders you is very important.

Achieving success is far more than what you do at your desk every day – it permeates everything in your life.

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I N T E RV I E W

What has been the lowest point you’ve faced in your entrepreneurial journey so far and what do you do to keep yourself going when it all gets too much?

There’s plenty of times when you’re feeling low – it’s the nature of business. You get amazing highs and terrible lows.

Sometimes twice before lunch. It’s insane.

Learning to manage the lows is an important task for any business person. For me, personally, I go for 10km runs every other day. Usually outside in the fresh air, through some bushes and around the bays of Wellington.

Often I prefer doing this alone since I can clear my head or get in the zone and process something on my mind. I also like to set myself a physical challenge every year.

I’d also be remiss not to mention the phenomenal support I get from Zheng Li, my fiancé. She’s an accomplished business woman in her own right, and we both are pretty good at helping each other realise that the lows are not that low, as well as encouraging behaviour to avoid dwelling on things. She certainly has been key to me holding on to some semblance of sanity over the years.

What do you think are the things New Zealand needs to improve upon when it comes to creating more successful businesses?

In the product space I see too many businesses flame out too early. They build something, expect immediate success, and then when that doesn’t eventuate they give up on it. It takes an age to really polish a product.

Yet I see experienced business people pulling the plug on further investment in features I’d consider necessarily in a first version because they can’t see the return potential of doing it right away. I’m always amazed at this because it’s just such short term thinking. The nature of a product business is that you have high costs at the outset but hopefully see a solid return over the future lifetime of the product.

Conversely the other big challenge I see is from businesses who believe they need to achieve perfection before getting a product out the door only to find out too late that they misread the market. Execute a minimum viable product (MVP) well and be prepared to iterate like crazy as you engage with your early customers about how to take what you thought was needed to deliver a great product.

What does it take to be a successful entrepreneur?

Revenue to exceed expenses and sufficient return on capital invested! If you achieve those, then you at least have a successful business. Achieving that effectively though comes back to the personality traits of the entrepreneur themselves.

I don’t think there is a specific set of traits that equates to success, but certainly some behaviours can assist: •

Tenacity

•

Confidence

•

Calculated risk taking

There is also ground work before starting any business.

You’ve already achieved so much in terms of business success. What’s next for you?

At present my entire focus is on Mindscape and, in particular, the Raygun product. I’m passionate about business and technology in general. I see myself doing this for some time yet.

I think there’s something in an entrepreneur that means you’re never happy with the status quo – even when you achieve a goal, the satisfaction is fleeting. You’re already thinking about the next awesome achievement to hit. It’s both exciting and exhausting at the same time – I wouldn’t trade it for anything.

I do have a strong interest in robotics and virtual reality so perhaps one day I’ll do something in those areas.

level of work required to have a viable product and having a

the next awesome achievement to hit. It’s both exciting and exhausting at the same time – I wouldn’t trade it for anything.

view of the macro direction of the industry you’re entering

I do have a strong interest in robotics and virtual reality so

are all important pre-requisites.

perhaps one day I’ll do something in those areas.

Understanding the competitive landscape, appreciating the

For more information about John-Daniel and his business, visit www.mindscapehq.com and www.raygun.io 18

case study: stray

“I’ve forgotten about reliability issues because there are none.”

Brett Hudson Operations Manager, Stray

Stray

Stray Limited is an adventure bus company taking travellers to out-ofthe-way places around New Zealand. We caught up with Operations Manager, Brett Hudson to talk about 2degrees and their business.

Adventure Travel 50 staff 41 mobiles Around NZ Joined 2012

Why does stray need mobiles?

Our tagline is “off the beaten track” so we’re not staying at your main destinations. We’re getting out there to the extremities of New Zealand and our sole way of being in contact with our drivers is through phone communications. We have changes happening all the time and we need to be able to contact our team in real-time.

What Was your old provider like?

There were large phone bills and if we had a problem like a phone outage it seemed they were either busy or they weren’t organised, and couldn’t get back to us. It was very frustrating and it became a constant problem within the business.

and What impact is 2degrees having?

It saved us $60,000 in the first year. In the second year, it’s going to save us that again. All this will go back into marketing campaigns or growing other parts of the business. The other impact is having an Account Manager I can get hold of to get solutions to my problems when I need them.

What difference do mobile devices make?

Our drivers are now able to use their smartphones and other mobile devices to show videos, photos and information about other tour packages and options available, like our operations in Thailand, Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam. We couldn’t do that before and it has made a huge difference. Of course, they’ve now got email and internet access too.

“You need damn good partners for successful business, and 2degrees I put in that category.“ Brett Hudson, Operations Manager

hoW is the coverage?

The coverage is fantastic. Regularly, I’m on road trips across New Zealand and off the beaten track and haven’t experienced issues with coverage. With our old provider there were a lot of black spots around Auckland and I don’t get those with 2degrees. And the bus drivers could be at Cape Reinga, they could be at Stewart Island, they could be down the West Coast; so in all sorts of different coverage areas and 2degrees works well for us.

3 x $89 plan

37 x $49 plan

1 x $149 plan

hoW reliable is the netWork?

Since I’ve been with 2degrees I’ve forgotten about reliability issues because there are none. Previously I regularly had issues.

I would be on the internet and it would drop out and when I sampled a 2degrees SIM card in there, I was amazed at the speed, how much quicker it was. I would regularly be on the phone with the last network and it would just drop a call. I don’t get that any more. As I said, the word reliability has disappeared from my vocabulary because it is so reliable.

For video case studies about Stray and other businesses who have made the move to 2degrees Business, please visit 2degreesmobile.co.nz/business

better 0800 022 BIZ (249)

2degreesmobile.co.nz

businesscare@2degreesmobile.co.nz

BUSINESS 19

G e t t ing I t D one

Lessons from the Trencheso Hard Learned Lessons

from Entrepreneurs in Training When is the right time to start a business?

By Richard Liew

I

get asked this question a lot and my answer is always the same... “Now!” There is a Chinese proverb which goes, “The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now.” And it is no different when it comes to being an entrepreneur.

�

There are two reasons for this:

Just as you cannot be a swimmer until you have jumped into the pool and begun swimming, you cannot be an entrepreneur if you have not taken the first step and begun your first business. Studying it, talking about it, planning for it... none of those things count. You’re not a true entrepreneur until you’ve jumped into the pool.

�

But far more important than semantics, entrepreneurship - like anything else worthwhile - requires years and years of practice and experience, to develop the skills, mindset, knowledge, understanding and personal qualities needed to build successful businesses time and time again. The sooner you get on with it, the quicker you’ll learn. You will learn your biggest lessons from the mistakes you make and the consequences you suffer, so the quicker you get those mistakes out the way, the quicker you’ll learn. The longer you delay, prevaricate and put off the inevitable, the longer you’ll put off your success as an entrepreneur. Simple as that.

I then get the usual raft of responses... “But I don’t have any good ideas”, “But I don’t have any experience”, “But I don’t have any money”, “But I don’t have any time”, “But I have kids”, “But I have a mortgage”, “But I’ve worked so hard to get where I am already”, “But I’m too young”, “But I’m too old”... and so on and so forth. To which I reply, “But that’s 20

exactly what the job of the entrepreneur is - to start and build a profit making enterprise, in spite of all these challenges!”

The first step in becoming an entrepreneur is to understand and develop the entrepreneur mindset.

Lack of money? The true entrepreneur finds a way to get some or make do without it. Lack of experience? The true entrepreneur will start and learn quickly as they go, or find people with the experience they need. Lack of a “great” idea?

The true entrepreneur gets started with the best idea they have right now, knowing that will lead to further (better) opportunities as they get moving. Lack of time? The true entrepreneur finds a way to make time.

At the end of the day it comes down to your commitment to being an entrepreneur. How badly do you want it? What are you prepared to sacrifice? Are you prepared to let life and circumstance determine what you can have and when you can have it?

Or are you prepared to accept full responsibility for the achievement of your goals in life, and to find a way to make it happen no matter what?

If your answer to this question is “Yes”, then the truth is that you have everything you need to get started, right now.

There is no such thing as the “perfect” time. But for a true entrepreneur, it is always the right time.

Richard Liew is the Founder and CEO of Espire Media. To find out more visit www.espiremedia.com. Do you have adivce for readers? Get in touch with the editor at nick@nzentrepreneur.co.nz 21

ENTREPRENEURSHIP

Tony McDonald - McDonalds-IT McDonalds-IT was established in 2007 for two reasons; firstly to embrace and deliver the ever growing cloud computing technology, and secondly to treat small / medium businesses with the attention and respect they deserve in terms of IT. So many larger IT firms neglect the IT needs of smaller businesses because it’s not profitable. It was time change all of that.

I

am a married man of 20 years, have two children and live in Wellington. To ensure that our business was profitable and could survive the downturn in the economy, I made sure that our business grew organically. No big investment in equipment, fancy offices or flash cars. By having one foot still in contracting for larger organisations it allowed me to have a base income to launch my company. I honestly believe the first two years stole some time from my life, made my hair grey and made me lose focus on other important aspects of my life, such as friends and family.

My wife Andrea was working at the local school library and I don’t think she appreciated my sleepless nights, waking up at 4am to sort out the day’s schedule, research new products and carry out the invoicing, then also staying up late at night networking and selling solutions while trying to maintain my 9-5 consultancy work.

After a few years my wife joined the business, part time at first, but then full time; wages, HR, Service Delivery Manager, etc. She now knows how it feels to not only own a business but also have the lives of your staff in your hands.

On the whole it has been very successful and we have many happy customers and great relationships with partners, however there is always the exception. We have had three customers not pay huge bills over the last few years for various reasons which we had no influence over. This is hard and keeps you awake at night until ultimately you have to make a decision; do you fight this all the way and potentially do yourself and the business more harm, or do you let it go and put it to bed. The latter is what I did even though it pained me to do so. It was the right decision, as now I can put things into perspective and let the important things fill my mind. It also made me more wary and initially less trusting of people and made me tighten up the way I deliver my contracts to customers.

In 2012 I was contacted by IDC (International Data Corporation) to see if I was interested in the results of a recent 22

McDonald’s IT present Red Cross NZ with their generous donation service survey. Apparently McDonalds-IT were 6th on the chart results above Fujitsu. Of course I thought this was some sort of joke, however 6 months later a colleague of mine gave me the chart, I was surprised, but also proud of the work I had put in to raise the profile of my brand.

Even the customers that have been with me a long time can offer surprises and it is important to not neglect anyone or take things for granted. We have one customer that was perfect and we got on like a house on fire. However that all changed when a new member of staff joined. There was a personality clash that I didn’t expect with a member of my team and it wasn’t initially obvious or apparent to anyone except the customer.

Taking time out to talk to your customer over a coffee or morning tea is vital to cementing the relationship and creating an environment where you can be approached freely.

This also applies to your own staff members and I think this is one area that sets McDonalds-IT apart from the others. All of my staff were hand picked, not only on their skills and abilities but on how they will interact with each other and our customers. Anyone can be trained in IT but having those excellent interpersonal skills is not something that can be taught. For me, good people are a must and we all work hard and play hard. We have a great office overlooking Midland Park and you can guarantee that on a Friday we will be playing darts and drinking a beer. It’s not because we have to, it’s because we want to. I am very grateful to have this wonderful team around me.

At the beginning, arriving from England, not only was I trying to adjust to life in NZ, but at the same time trying to get my brand out to businesses that already had IT

providers. This is one of the hardest challenges which takes time, money (advertising and entertaining), and lots and lots of patience. Some leads took over a year to come to fruition, and if I was to give advice, it would be to never give up if you believe in yourself or your product.

However, if it’s not working seek help, either in the form of networking groups or business advice.

Our latest customer is Red Cross New Zealand and we have become a Loyalty partner, donating $25,000 to charity within the first 3 months. Being a member of the Port Nicholson Rotary club in Wellington makes me very happy to be able contribute to a great organisation.

To be successful at running a business you need to be dedicated, extremely focused and selfish to a point. The rest of your life has to take a back seat for long periods, especially in the beginning. Having said that I think I went over the top at times and was in danger of missing my children’s teenage years. Luckily for me I realised in time and took my foot off the gas a little.

Having started out life as an architect in building, moving on to IT and then starting my own business, I am always looking for exciting opportunities. I play, write and sing music in two bands (Secret of Origin and Plastic Groove) and am currently getting my micro brewery off the ground (Hops Valley). I also write music reviews for music.net.nz and Stuff Nation.

As you can see, if I’m not busy, I’m not living.

To find out more about Tony and his business visit www.mcdonaldsit.co.nz 23

To m o r r o w s E n t r e p r eneu r s

Young Enterprise Terry Shubkin, CEO Young Enterprise Trust

O

ne of the most common questions that I get asked is ‘How are you funded?’.

Many people often assume we are an offshoot of the Ministry of Education, when the reality is quite different.

Young Enterprise Trust is a charity which is funded by a combination of corporate sponsorship, donations and community funding. Our largest funder is The Lion Foundation and there are more than 30 organisations that support us financially.

We know that our programmes make a difference to the lives of thousands of students, but we need to find the funds every year to do so. This month we are running our annual donation appeal and I am hoping you might be in a position to support us. Any amount will help: •

Donate $400 and one student will complete the Lion Foundation Young Enterprise Scheme

•

Donate $200 and one student can travel to participate in the Enterprise in Action Weekend

M

ore than 2,500 students will set up new businesses this year, with the support of local businesspeople throughout New Zealand.

The Lion Foundation Young Enterprise Scheme is a yearlong programme where secondary students create a small

•

Donate $65 and one student will complete the BP Business Challenge

business and bring a new product or service to market. The

•

Donate $15 and one Student Workbook will be received by a student

has been helping students learn about the business world for

Every little bit helps – so if you want to support the next generation of entrepreneurs, please visit our Givealittle page to make a donation. We’re proud to use Givealittle – it was created by one of our alumni, after all!

If you would like to volunteer as a mentor, please contact Young Enterprise Trust on 04 570 0452 or email support@youngenterprise.org.nz. Young Enterprise Trust is also running a webinar for new mentors on Monday 24 March. Register now and listen in live or view the recording on demand.

24

Businesspeople Volunteer Across the Country

programme, which is managed by the Young Enterprise Trust, more than 30 years.

“The aim of the programme is to help students develop their entrepreneurial skills,” says Robyn Frey, who manages the programme for Young Enterprise Trust.

“The students learn about the different aspects of running a small business, from planning and capital-raising to production, marketing and sales.”

Students are supported throughout the year by their teacher, a regional coordinator and members of the local business community.

“

We know that our programmes make a difference to the lives of thousands of students, but we need to find the funds every year to do so.

“We encourage every Young Enterprise company to find a

they are going to make it all work, and to see how they solve

local businessperson who will mentor them throughout the

each problem as it arises.”

year,” says Robyn. “In addition, they get early feedback

Mentoring generally involves 1 or 2 meetings per month with

and advice on their business ideas in a ‘Speed Coaching’ workshop that sees them connect with many businesspeople right at the start of their school year. It’s a fantastic and authentic way for students to evaluate their business ideas.”

Young Enterprise CEO Terry Shubkin says that volunteers often enjoy the experience as much as the students.

“Volunteers often tell us how the Speed Coaching session leaves them inspired and energised. It’s the perfect way for volunteers to use their skills in a way that benefits both the student and the volunteer.“ Bill Smale has been mentoring Auckland students through the programme for many years. “I get great satisfaction out

a student company, from February to November. The CEO of the student company will contact the mentor to arrange a meeting time and venue that is mutually convenient, or mentoring can take place via Skype if necessary.

Brett Warwick from the New Zealand Fire Service mentored a group of Wellington students through the programme in 2012.

“The young women were very focused. They established a good business plan at the start of the business and to a great extent stuck to that plan. I would meet with the team every couple of weeks and whenever we did meet, I found that they had made good progress.

of being a mentor, especially when I see the untainted ideas

My job was very easy. It involved just listening to the team

coming forward. It is great to see the enthusiasm and energy,

and providing encouragement when required. Just being told

especially when they have come up with an idea and how

how well they were doing motivated them.”

25

INSPIRING STORIES

Hamish Dobbie

Meet Hamish Dobbie – a 31 year old kiwi entrepreneur who has successfully launched a number of businesses to date, including MedSailors (www.medsailors.com) – 7 day skippered sailing holidays in the Mediterranean, Yolkr (www.yolkr.com) – an innovative baking tool that allows you to easily separate eggs, and Dobsol (www.dobsol.com) – an Auckland IT company building cloud-based applications. He catches up with Latesha Randall for a quick Q&A.

26

Which project are you most excited

What would you say are the main

about at the moment, and why?

three things you’ve learnt through

I’d have to say MedSailors. We’ve got to the point where

running your own businesses?

things are working well – our team is growing and we’ve

First one would be the importance of people. The people you

been able to put more money into marketing. After a few

want on your team are ones who bring unique skills to the

years of focusing on getting the basics right, there’s now

table, you have a common goal to aim towards, and they’re

some fat in there to do something creative. We’re currently

able to help you share the load. I also believe in quality.

looking into launching new tourism ventures in other regions,

You need to deliver something truly great in order to build

including New Zealand, which I’m definitely excited about.

that reputation in the market place and get word of mouth

Hamish’s invention - the Yolkr completed a successful fundraising on Kickstarter working for you. Third thing I’ve learnt is having a good strategy. I know you have to be realistic and keep an open mind to things changing, but I think it’s great to have a star you’re shooting for and a plan for how to get there.

Did you have any kind of mentor?

Or tools for learning the things you needed to know?

Although I’ve had family friends I’ve sat down and talked with about things, I’ve never had a dedicated mentor. I’ve been inspired by a lot of people who have got out there and done awesome things, like Richard Branson and Steve Jobs for example. I’ve read a lot of books! And always tried to spend time with people who I see as successful.

Is it true that part of being an entrepreneur is always working crazy hours – or do you feel it enables you to have a better work/life balance?

What’s work-life balance? [laughs] When you’re an entrepreneur, you end up doing everything, especially at the beginning stages of a new venture. I’ve always been a bit of a

perfectionist too so I guess if I backed off on that a little then I might have more time – but I really enjoy it. It’s not ‘work’ to me, it’s exciting getting something over that breaking point.

Anything you’d do differently if you could go back and repeat all your projects again?

Yeah, plenty. I think I dived in too deep at the start – went out on my own with some savings from working as a engineer for a few years, and straight into a whole new world of software development. I could probably have done that a ‘safer’ way and worked part time in a job to learn the skills I needed, but overall I feel it was good I had that pressure there of needing to learn fast and well. I’ve also learnt the importance of having good contracts in place and developing relationships with experienced people.

How have you funded your ventures?

Apart from Yolkr, which I raised about £43,000 via Kickstarter for, everything else I’ve done has been selffunded. I haven’t taken the option of getting outside investment. Kickstarter was a fantastic experience 27

INSPIRING STORIES

“

The people you want on your team are ones who bring unique skills to the table, you have a common goal to aim towards, and they’re able to help you share the load.

though; wish I’d invented that platform! It really speeds up the creation process of a venture allowing you to validate the market and limiting over investment in time and product development.

Do you think Kiwis are natural innovators?

Yes, definitely. Everyone you talk to has an idea! New Zealanders are generally resourceful, capable, and connected.

It doesn’t take too much in an environment like that to take something from thought to commercialisation.

Any cool new ideas in the pipeline?

I really enjoyed the whole experience of creating the Yolkr – taking it from an initial concept into CAD modeling, and manufacturing. I now have a few ideas of novel, practical homeware products I’d like to make. I’m planning to aim for one new product each year. I’m also enjoying building cloud systems for businesses (Dobsol) – it engages that engineering, problem-solving part of my brain. It is going to keep me busy this year too!

Latesha Randall is an enthusiastic connector, entrepreneur, and writer based in Raglan - she enjoys working with start-ups and business owners as one half of Seb & Tesh, helping them create, clarify and implement their business ideas. www.sebandtesh.com.

28

E N TR E PR E N E U R I A L I N T E L L I G E N C E

Entrepreneurial Intelligence with Sandy Geyer

Things are getting a bit more serious with our earlystage start-up. We’ve been pretty laid back so far about legal work and documenting things. Lawyers are so expensive. What are the essential legal documents for our business that we need to put in place first?

The time to consider legal documentation is when your business starts to become valuable to those financially and intellectually invested in the entity. At that point in the business, important parties to the business could be adversely affected by two things.

The first is unexpected events such as the death or disabling illness of one of the partners, and the second is an unsuccessful collaborative or contractual agreement between internal and external partners in the business structure.

Many financial advisors can arrange legally compliant buy and sell agreements for you from attorneys they might work with regularly, who will know exactly what it is that you need and will charge accordingly and reasonably. When entering contracts with other parties it’s important to consider how expensive a disagreement could be and make provision for such events in the contracts.

When drawing up agreements to formalise dayto-day business issues, I always do it myself in layman’s terms and only ask for a lawyer to rewrite it in “legal speak” if such a formality will make or break the outcome of a future disagreement.

Buy and sell agreements (contracts that specify a buyout process and make financial provision for that process) will protect the business from having to pay out cash values or unearned salaries in the death/accident scenario, which in reality could take a fragile business down financially.

This minimises the legal costs and keeps them limited to only what we really need. I certainly wouldn’t advise spending any more money than is absolutely necessary on legal fees, but it is important to understand where these fees do become an important investment in place of a drain. In the majority of situations, common sense goes a very long way in placing safeguards for possible bumps along the way.

By “fragile business” I mean any business that doesn’t have endless cash resources and those that rely on the intellectual input of any of the partners to stay afloat. If there are no buy and sell agreements in place upon the death of a partner and no provision for a buyout has been made, you could end up with that partner’s family as your business partners, and that might be less than ideal for you all.

In each issue Sandy will be answering commonly asked questions from new entrepreneurs. If you have a question for Sandy to do with entrepreneurship, building successful businesses or the challenges and difficulties faced by entrepreneurs, email the editor at nick@nzentrepreneur.co.nz.

Sandy Geyer is an entrepreneur and mentor and teaches the principles of entrepreneurial intelligence (EnQ), to entrepreneurs in New Zealand, Australia and South Africa. You can visit Sandy’s website at www.enqpractice.com 29

TA K I N G T H E P L U N G E

Pete’s Lemonade An Idea Inside a Bottle

P

ete’s Natural started about four years ago when

drinkable that his family approved of.

the company’s founder - Pete Blommaert, had the

It was time for the neighbours to try their luck. Pete carted

undeniable urge to start brewing his own lemonade.

Pete had been a baker for over 30 years, and has run bakeries in three different countries on three different continents.

The minute he got home after this epiphany for making his own lemonade, he pulled out all the buckets and pails he could find and started mixing all the ingredients he could possibly come up with.

Pete’s first brews weren’t deemed successful by his family, and with each new batch they got more and more fed up.

Pete’s wife wasn’t amused having bucket after bucket thrown

30

bottle after bottle across the road day after day. Each time they would come back empty with a note included. (Yuck, but better than the last one...) The thing about Pete though is that he was determined to get it right. Day after day the bottles and brews kept coming until finally, he got a positive note back from the neighbours.

This was the defining moment when Pete’s life changed forever. Pete’s Natural was born.

Based in Nelson, the company currently produces all natural

around the house and everyone was well and truly sick of

lemonades spanning four flavours - Lemonade, Currant Crush

Pete constantly insisting that they try ‘just one more time’.

(blackcurrant), Orange Berry Fusion (Orange Strawberry)

Eventually, Pete got it right and came up with something

and Lime-O-Nade (Lemon, Lime and Mint). All are lightly

“

Think before you begin but follow your dream and make sure to have plenty of starting capital, it always takes way more then you expect

sparkling and made with only New Zealand grown fruit, no chemicals, preservatives or artificial colours or flavours.

Pete’s Natural is now hoping to supply all New Zealanders with a healthy alternative to sparkling beverages while supporting the New Zealand economy by buying local, they currently support over 300 customers. After that, they want to conquer the rest of the world.

Whilst gaining great satisfaction from seeing the product on the shelves of bakeries, cafes and eateries Pete does offer caution to any budding entrepreneurs.

“Think before you begin but follow your dream and make sure to have plenty of starting capital, it always takes way more then you expect. Keep in mind that you will need to put in a lot of time and effort to start and grow the business but in the end it’s all worth it.”

Pete has always been used to a cash business but feels that managing this is key to the company’s success. “Selling to “It’s not easy running a small business but if it was, retailers and having to wait until the following month to get paid everybody would be doing it.” can be tough while you still need to invest in available stock for the following month. It’s important to control the growth so that For more information visit - www.petesnatural.co.nz you can keep up financially with supporting the growth.”

31

P A RT I N G S H O T

“Nothing is impossible, the word itself says ‘I’m possible’!”

Audrey Hepburn

32