John Carlin interviews Arnaldo Otegi by Maria Lopera

John Carlin Interviews Arnaldo Otegi Oct. 17, 2010 British writer John Carlin, author of “Playing the Enemy”[from which the film “Invictus” was based on], conducted a written interview with Arnaldo Otegi, who is being held at the prison of Navalcarnero. Part of this interview was first published in “El Pais”, we are publishing the complete text below. Any errors in translation are the fault of Darrin Wood, who translated the document from Spanish to English. Question: Are you speaking for yourself or as a leader of the Basque Left 1? Answer: I am responding to these questions from a Spanish prison as a member of the leadership of the Basque Left and so I am giving you my positions in accordance with the conclusions of our internal debate and the obligations we now have with the international community as well as different political, social and labor groups in the Basque Country. Q. Why have you always justified the terrorist violence of ETA2? A. My position and that of the Basque Left as a whole, has been the logical consequence of understanding that the existence and persistence of political violence in our country is due to reasons of a strictly political nature. Without wanting to outline any parallels in absolute terms, our position has been very similar to that maintained for decades by Sinn Fein in Ireland and Nelson Mandela en South Africa. What has characterized our position about this theme has been the insistence on the necessity of a definitive end to violence and political conflict through dialogue and negotiation. Our obligation has always been, and is, sincere; weapons, all weapons must completely disappear from the Basque political equation. Q. Do you reject the extortions of businesspersons, the so-called revolutionary tax? A. They are acts that must disappear. Every threat and persecution for political reasons, every denial of rights must disappear. To this end, no one can be indifferent or not feel questioned. Myself included. Q. Do you think killing a Civil Guard or a town council member is the way to achieve independence for the Basque Country (Euskal Herria)? A. There is no other path towards independence than that which is developed through peaceful and democratic means. We do not believe that the strategy for independence is compatible with resorting to armed violence. This is one of the conclusions that we have reached and we express it without any ambiguity. That said, I hope and wish that the Spanish people, their public powers, their social agents, politicians, their Government can categorically accept that using force, torture, the banning of [political] parties, closing media outlets… cannot and must not form part of their strategy in trying to impede the project for independence. Q. If ETA kills tomorrow, will you condemn it? And the rest of Batasuna? A. You are presenting me with a hypothesis that I consider impossible or highly unlikely since ETA has announced the end of their armed actions; but I don’t want to evade the question. If such a thing were to occur, the Basque Left, by way of their own reflection and agreements we have acquired with the international community and in applying the Mitchell Principles, we will oppose such actions. When the Basque Left distanced itself from alleged acts of Kale Borroka3 clearly shows our obligation to peaceful and democratic ways. Q. Why couldn’t this point have been reached three, four, five years ago? 1

Basque Left (Izquierda Abertzale, Ezker Abertzalea) is used to identify the political grouping that came from the former “Herri Batasuna”, “Euskal Herritorak”, “Batasuna”, etc. after a decade of political bannings. 2

Euskadi ta Askatasuna (Basque Homeland and Freedom), the Basque separatist organization that has been using political violence for over40 years against the Spanish Government in order to gain the right to self-determination. 3

The street battles and acts of vandalism usually carried out by radical youths.

A. Maintaining a position of permanent self-criticism about our strategy is one of the signs of our identity as a political organization. Our current positions are the product of a long process of maturing politically that hasn’t been, or isn’t, free of complications. The change demonstrates our large social base, which has known how to do things in extreme conditions and without renouncing any of what we have been and what we are, our principles and our objectives. If this change had been possible or not four or five years ago can be an object of diverse interpretations, what is important is what has happened in spite of powerful agents of the state that have tried to impede it through repression; our imprisonment doesn’t have any other objective. Well, fine, they haven’t gotten what they wanted. Q. Don’t you think that the easiest way to end what you call the “Basque Conflict” is for ETA to stop killing and lay down their weapons? A. What you call the Basque Conflict came way before the birth of ETA. If ETA’s violence disappears, it doesn’t mean the end of the conflict between the Basque Country and the Spanish State. The definitive end of the armed struggle by ETA after 51 years will bring an end to the armed aspect of the conflict, but it will not resolve it. We propose a simple formula of democratic arithmetic for a definitive solution to the political conflict: the recognition of the Basque peoples’ national identity and their rights and respect so that the Basque people can freely decide their future peacefully and democratically, without any limit other than their own popular will. This formula would allow for a permanent and definitive end to the political conflict and, what’s more, it’s a formula that is even more extended, even in the European Union. The examples of Ireland, Scotland, Flanders, Montenegro, Greenland, the Faroe Islands… they all demonstrate the strength and timeliness of the Basque Lefts’ platform. Q. Why trust you or ETA after what happened in the T-44 and after so many failed ceasefires? A. In the first place I would like to manifest that we are receptive and respectful with those sectors who feel themselves “skeptical” about the sincerity of our positions and they do so in good faith., but we are especially critical with other sectors, especially the political class who use their skepticism as an alleged argument for maintaining absolutely unmovable positions because they feel comfortable with the current situation being blocked. Ok, we all have reasons for not trusting our adversaries, for not trusting their present or future intentions. But we need to go forward. Confronting this reality of multiple mistrusts, we have adopted a position from the beginning that allows us to move forward: to make decisions and develop them unilaterally; placing our people and the international community as the only guarantees in the evolution of a democratic process. In this phase the democratic process does not depend on the existence of previous agreements, not the confidence of a specific government. We have completely outgrown that outlook. It’s evident that in more advanced phases the process will require accords, agreements and dynamics of a multilateral character, but we will only reach this phase if we are capable of generating the necessary conditions from mobilizing society, the complicity of the international community for a democratic solution and bringing about unilateral gestures and acts. Q. Are you one who believes that ETA’s armed struggle has no future? When did you come to that conclusion? A. I would like to answer that from two different spheres. In the first place, if we speak of the future in strictly operative terms, I believe that ETA could continue prolonging its armed activity, with a higher or lower intensity for many years, even maintaining a certain level of social support. This organization has demonstrated for over 50 years that it is capable of regenerating itself and keeping itself operative in spite of the repression that has been used against it. We are not dealing with an organization that has been defeated by law enforcement. However, in the political sphere, and it is a global phenomenon, you can clearly see the transition of a great majority of the political-military organizations with a transforming and socialist identity, from insurgent positions to positions that are transformative and with popular, democratic strategies. Bolivia, El Salvador, Nicaragua and Uruguay are good examples of what I am talking about. I definitely believe that an efficient strategy for achieving our objectives should rest exclusively on our capacity for democratic seduction. Therefore, the Basque Left, considering geopolitical, economic and social variables and, primarily, analyzing the Basque political process it has been absorbed and put down in black and white in our document for conclusions. It’s not important to know when I came to that conclusion, what is relevant towards the future is that our base has overwhelmingly made it theirs in the debate that we just had. Q. Do you share Eguiguren’s5 idea that it is easier for ETA and the Basque left to renounce violence by themselves 4

A carbomb set off by ETA in one of the parking garages at Madrid’s Barajas airport on December 30 th, 2006. Two Ecuadoran immigrants were killed in the explosion despite a warning call from ETA to avoid casualties.

than because of a negotiation? A. I don’t know the details of the thesis that you mention so it would be foolish on my part to state any opinion about that. Q. What has changed your perception since your speech in Anoeta about overcoming violence? A. My convictions are more solid today than they were then. Believe me as I say this with complete and total certainty: if the debate that we just held would have taken place before the Declaration of Anoeta, it is very possible that the previous Peace Process wouldn’t have been halted. Q. Do you think that ETA will ever stop killing without any political concessions involved? A. Since the Declaration of Lizarra-Garai6, and with more clarity since the Declaration of Anoeta –which has come to be accepted by ETA in their first interview- the place for negotiation and political agreements corresponds exclusively to political formations. It’s up to ETA to reach agreements regarding the consequences of the conflict: prisoners, victims, demilitarization. The decision for a temporary or permanent end to the armed struggle shouldn’t and can’t be subject to the existence of agreements of a political nature among political forces. Although it is evident that an inclusive climate for dialogue, together with applying perfectly legal acts (freeing sick prisoners and those who have completed their sentences), there is no doubt that it would aid ETA’s decision making. Q. Are you pressuring ETA for it to declare a definitive and irreversible end to violence? A. You have to believe me when I say that ETA is not an organization that makes decisions based on how much pressure is being applied to it. In any case, I can confirm that we have been using our political ideas to influence the decisions that would permit the opening of a new phase with the disappearance of political violence and the consolidation of a new space for dialogue and negotiation towards a definitive solution. Q. After the failure of the previous process, the current Government feels it is impossible to reopen negotiations if there isn’t a previous complete abandonment of violence. Do you see any alternative? A. I believe that using the final scenario as a starting point won’t allow us to go forward. I believe, nonetheless, that this petition can be a motive for the frustrations of previous processes. In this sense, I believe that the guarantee for surpassing all of the grave errors already committed –by everyone- could be found in agreeing with the Mitchell Principles and an adequate monitoring of the entire peace process by international figures that have the confidence of all sides. Q. The democratic parties consider ETA’s announced truce to be insufficient. Do you agree? Why? A. As time passes you’ll see that the homogeneity they make so much of isn’t quite so. This even more evident in the Basque Country where anyone who speaks of a homogenous position is really referring to what the PSOE7 and PP8 maintain. The position of these parties, with the calculated complicity of the PNV, reminds me of the tactic of the ostrich. They have to deny any change in our positions because if they did not then they would be forced to change their own and that would give them a lot of vertigo and shows their enormous political weakness. To sum up, I’d say that the risk of the reactions caused by the initiatives of the Basque Left and the move that ETA has made, we could reformulate Archimedes Point in political terms: the degree of irritation and skepticism regarding the new situation is directly proportional to the interest in maintaining the current situation inflexible. Q. What could have changed in the current leadership of ETA to make it different from others that have also talked of truces and ended up killing? A. Fundamentally in that there is a mandate from the base of the Basque Left that doesn’t admit any ambiguity and must be recognized. Q. In their latest communiqué, ETA suggests that they are willing to sit down and analyze the situation with the 5

Jesus Eguiuren. President of the Basque chapter of the Spanish Socialist Party (PSOE)

The Lizarra-Garai Declaration was signed by Basque political parties, trade unions and social movements that helped start the peace talks in 1998. 7

Partido Socialista Obrero Español (PSOE) Spanish Socialist Workers Party.

Partido Popular (PP) Right-wing political party in Spain.

The Brussels Declaration was signed in 2010 by prominent political figures such as the Nelson Mandela Foundation, Frederik de Klerk, Mary Robinson, Archbishop Desmond Tutu, John Hume (and others, to support a peace process in the Basque Country. 10

The Gernika Declaration was signed by Basque political parties and trade unions that helped start the current process in 2010. 11

Javier Rubalcaba is the current Minister of Interior and Vice-President for the PSOE in the Spanish Government.

The Basque Autonomous Community differs from Euskal Herria in that is a creation of the Spanish state and does not include Navarre or the three territories in France. 14

Convergencia i Unio (CiU) A conservative Catalonian nationalist party.

Secret negotiations between political parties were taking place in the Sanctuary of Loyola in Azpetia, where Saint Ignatius was born in 1491. 16

“Ferraz” is the street where the Spanish Socialist Party (PSOE) has its headquarters in Madrid.

“Genoa” is the street where the right-wing Popular Party (PP) has its headquarters in Madrid.

Eusko Alkartasuna is a pro-dialogue Basque nationalist party.

Basque President