9 minute read
Jo Shiner, new Chief Constable of Sussex
Jo Shiner, talks to Chris Gull and Rory Finn (previously a member of Sussex Police as the LGBTQ+ liaison officer).
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This article is a distillation of an hourlong conversation. These questions and answers have been paraphrased and edited for brevity.
Congratulations on your new role. You were in Kent previously and did research on hate crime. How is that experience going to inform your policy here in Sussex?
“Thanks. I have had experience previously in relation to hate crimes and policing different communities and I have three priorities coming into this. The first is to protect our communities, the second is to catch criminals and the third is to deliver an outstanding service to victims, witnesses and the wider public. “Protecting communities is probably the most important one to me, where some of my experience leads me into the future. It’s more important to prevent crimes than to investigate once they have happened, especially crimes that are very personal such as hate crime, because I see the impact that has on victims.
Is it because victims haven't got the confidence to report or is it because actually there's a greater number of crimes?
“I’ve been in policing for years and I’m not sure anybody has ever got to the bottom of that, but I would like to think that when we do our surveys people have the confidence to report crimes to Sussex Police and trust that we'll then act upon them.” [RORY]: “To be honest that's not how it feels from within the communities. I hear members of the community talking about things that have happened to them which won't necessarily be a criminal offence, but is still hate and certainly caused harm. From my experience of working with Sussex Police as LGBTQ+ liaison officer and also a community member, people don't go to the police because they don't see anything happening. Equally the police can't do anything because it's not a crime, it's what is called a ‘hate incident’.”
Do you think there's any way that we can bridge that gap? Bridging that gap is where trust and confidence will get built and people will start coming forward...
“We want people to report incidents as well as crimes. People who cause incidents may go on to commit a crime against somebody. If we don't know about those incidents it's difficult to be able to know where to target our engagement, our prevention and community relations. I would encourage people to report. Knowing about incidents means that we can put greater operational presence, visible presence or whatever our operational response needs to be.”
Does third-party reporting have an important role in this?
“Definitely. We get a number of third-party reports now but anything which encourages reporting we're very happy to continue to develop, build and work on and any fresh ideas anybody has about that then please do feed them in, because anything which enables a person to report something they perceive as a hate crime or incident is important for us.”
The trans community is reporting hideous amounts of online abuse and trolling. What support is there?
“We have victim support and several charities also offer support. Online abuse is really difficult to monitor as people hide behind pseudonyms, but where we can, we'll investigate and put people in touch with victim support or other charities.”
What are your top tips for how to respond to online abuse, because sometimes it doesn't feel like it's worth coming to the police. What would you do if you were experiencing that?
“Well I do experience that, particularly now with a high-profile job. I’ve experienced comments in person and online about being appointed as chief. I try to take a proportionate and pragmatic approach, doing my own triage around whether it's something I really need to worry about. I think it is down to individuals because some individuals obviously take it to heart probably much more than I do. I also have what I call an ‘objective buddy’, who I trust implicitly. When I get something that appears to be more than one person who's put one comment on, I ask them to read it and tell me whether they think
there's something more serious. It’s difficult when it's directed at yourself to have that objective view beyond your visceral response.”
“Absolutely and I’ve got much better at ignoring people and ensuring that I don't get into arguments where they're baiting me for a reply. I ignore them, block them, report them. I’ve got much better at doing that and ignoring them, but it means that those haven't been addressed from a criminal point of view. Though when you try to track those people online it's virtually impossible to identify who they are.”
Anecdotally we understand that the phenomenon of chemsex parties is leading to an increase in non-consensual sex and rape within our communities and that there is an issue around reporting, with the victims often being vulnerable and young.
“Absolutely, we only have anecdotal evidence and we encourage any reporting where people do think that this has been the case. There aren’t any specific figures in our data but we're looking carefully at what that picture looks like. We always recommend: don't put yourselves in a vulnerable position by ingesting anything when you don't know what it is and where it’s from, making sure that you're either buying your own drink or covering your own drink. Sensible precautions when you're in any environment with other people, particularly if you don't know them.” [RORY] “When I was working for Sussex Police I had third-party reports of sexual assaults from community partners and LGBTQ+ workers in drug and alcohol services. It was always difficult because the person doesn't remember anything so there's no evidence to lead on. It comes back to the harm minimisation approach you’ve described: Stay out of highrisk areas, go with a friend, know your limits if possible, but it's really difficult.”
What is Sussex Police doing to build stronger relationships with the LGBTQ+ communities?
“We've been engaging with and listening to the LGBTQ+ communities, and also trying to attract a diverse workforce. We're recruiting at the moment. we have had increases in terms of the number of LGBTQ+ officers and police staff and I really welcome that. “We also have advisory groups, the strategic independent advisory group and LGBTQ+ liaison officers. We have staff networks that are very vibrant. We have a diversity board which I chair, and we have some very difficult debates at those meetings, challenging each other to make sure that we're making progress and not just stuck in our ways. “We’ve also got our commitment to the Stonewall accreditation and we were the Public Sector South East winners this year, and I know much of that came from feedback from communities.”
[RORY]: “The world has changed in the past six months in the aftermath of George Floyd’s murder in the US, the BLM protests and the issues around the trans community and proposed changes to the Gender Recognition Act. All of these things challenge community relationships and require a real depth of understanding. Out of these events a focus has come on to the idea of ‘defunding police’, which is about diverting funds from actions which criminalise people into ways of dealing with social issues which are the perceived drivers of criminality.”
What would be good ways of doing that preventative work? What is your view of restorative justice within hate crime, for instance?
“For me it's about what the victim perceives by behaviour towards them and what they then want the outcome to be. Some people want people to be educated, to understand how they made them feel and I’ve seen that work really effectively, but it does have to be carefully managed and be victim led. The victim has got to want that and the perpetrator has got to be committed to doing it for the right reasons. “In the right circumstances that works, but there are other crimes that are so serious the police need to have a role in saying that there might have been previous victims, and if we don't deal with it properly there might be victims in the future. That’s where discussion, listening and understanding between police and victim and offender have to come together to make sure that we make a pragmatic and proportionate decision.”
Are there things other than applying the letter of the law that Sussex Police does to repair harm and/or try to prevent criminality?
“Prevention is about understanding what is going on in our communities and why. Then understanding how we can address the causes of some of those criminal behaviours as opposed to constantly responding to what we perceive as the symptoms. The prevention teams are skilled at unpicking that. From a multi-agency point of view that prevention arm is important, and police are only one part. It’s important that we work with partners, with the charity sector and others, to do that end-to-end support for anybody who needs it.”
Is there any sort of capacity within your role to feed upwards and say: “Hang on there's a problem with this law, we need to change it.” Is that within your gift?
“Absolutely it's part of our role to influence policy, to look at why something is not working and then influence the changes. We work closely with Sussex MPs and through our National Police Chiefs Council as well. Different chief officers each have a strategic lead. I’ll lead on some of the policy and strategy development which will then go nationally.”
Our doubly marginalised queer, trans and intersex people of colour and LGBTQ+ BAME communities are particularly concerned about Stop & Search figures. What are your thoughts around continuing use of Stop & Search within Sussex?
“Stop & Search is a valuable tool for policing. It’s important that we address criminal behaviours, and on a number of occasions we do take knives. substances and other items.
“If we did not have the power to stop and search we simply wouldn't take these off the streets and if we didn't take those off the streets there would be more serious violence, more stabbings and potentially more death. Stop & Search used responsibly and proportionately is a strong tool for policing, but I come back to the legitimacy of policing and trust that the public must have that we're using our powers and tools that are given to us through legislation fairly, proportionately and with legitimacy. “We do a significant amount of training and scrutiny in relation to that. I think that in policing we are at a teachable moment. We're at a moment where we should be reflecting, and shouldn't be complacent that those checks and measures of the past have always resulted in the right outcomes. “In Sussex we're doing an extensive piece of work to look at and ask different questions around some of those processes, figures and outcomes. If anybody wants to assist us by joining one of our scrutiny panels, get in contact with us because we always welcome additional members.“
To report a hate crime, call 999 in an emergency or 101 if it’s not an emergency.
Follow Jo Shiner on Twitter @CCJoShiner
