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I N N O VAT I O N S Radio Interview: Digital Innovations Click to Watch Interview https://youtu.be/ 0a34mL4ZniU

RADIO I N T E RV I E W : D I G I TA L I N N OVA T I O N S CKPM FM: Good morning, and welcome to the Extreme Business Show on CKPM FM. I'm glad you're joining us this beautiful Saturday morning. You're listening to CKPM FM. I am a local business telecom entrepreneur, and I am so happy to be able to sit here in front of the microphone in the studio in beautiful downtown Port Moody and bring to you any secrets, any tidbits, any level of information and education I can to help you bring your business to the next highest level of profitability and success. We all, as a telecom entrepreneur myself, and as entrepreneurs out there and business owners, we work very hard. A lot of us work hard on our business, and we also work hard in our business. I talked to a lot of entrepreneurs, and they say that the reason they got into it is because they wanted time. They wanted to have their own time, be in control of their own time, but what they don't realize is that being in your own business is a lot of work. It's a lot of hard work, and if you're going to be successful, you have to put in way more than 40 hours a week. There's so much to do. You have bookkeeping, finances, employees, salaries, CRA remittances, WCB. You have marketing. You have all of your technical, your operational information, administrative. It just goes on and on. You have to get the various platforms to run your company. All that takes a tremendous amount of time and effort, so my goal on this

show, if you've been listening to the Extreme Business Show, is to try to shortcut that for you, try to make it so that we can help you get to where you want to be faster, more profitably, and have more control over your time. A lot of people need some breaks from their business, and lifestyle really is what you want in your business. The reason you get into business is because you love it, but you don't love it so much that that's all you do. You need to be able to get a lifestyle out of it so you can go traveling, you can spend more time with your family and children, or you can just grow your business and have extreme profitability so that you can do what you want to do. The Extreme Business Show brings you that. I've been in business for 30 years. I'm a local telecom entrepreneur, and I've grown up here in Coquitlam. At least business-wise I've grown up here. I was born and raised in Quebec. I joined the military in communications. Then when I was 21 I started a business out here selling phone systems or telephones even, just retail telephones back in the day when it was illegal to buy a telephone, so I was a pioneer in the telecom industry. I had a store in Coquitlam Center. I can tell you that starting in a business where the phone company doesn't want you to be in can be pretty rough. We've had pickets outside our store. We've had our phone lines cutoff.

I'd go out to my truck at nighttime when I was younger, and my headlights would be kicked in when I was starting. The union didn't want us to be in business, and they did their best to get us out of business, but here we are 30 years later, very, very successful. I've got over 10,000 clients, and I've saved over $17 million for business owners everywhere in the Lower Mainland by explaining to them how they can save money on their lines, but also getting them into equipment that makes them more successful and more efficient. Goals for our show: efficiency, success for your company. I've got in the studio guests every week that can bring those efficiencies and those profitability to your company. One of the guests I have in has been a good friend of mine I've known for several years. His name is Darrell Backen from Backen Media. Darrell is an expert in digital marketing, so we're going to get right into it on this show and explain to you what digital marketing is and how it can affect your business. First of all, I'd like to introduce you to Darrell. Darrell, welcome to the show. Darrell Backen: Hi, Tom. CKPM FM: Darrell, you've been in digital marketing for not all your life, but just recently, but you've been into communications and media for a long, long time, so give us a little bit about your background.

How innovations over 30 years produce new products

Darrell Backen: Starting in 1983 I started QuikCall, which was the first basically a wallet directory for the new

item which was called a "cell phone." They were invented in 1983. Back in about '87 I started Home & Leisure Magazine, which was basically dealing with the upper end homes of Edmonton. We delivered up to them every month. Going through the print industry I had learned a lot of lessons and I had most of the major names in the industry, Molly Maid and California Closets, everybody to do with basically your home. A few years ago I thought, "Everything is switching to mobile." I wanted to learn how that was done. There was no way to find out how it was done, so what I did is I did an intense research on what works and what doesn't work. CKPM FM: I know you've spent hours on that because you and I got involved in helping my company as well. We're going to get right back to you after these messages, and Darrell is going to tell us about digital marketing and how it's going to impact your company in a very huge way. If you're not doing it your competitor probably is going to start, so we need to get you ahead of your competitor. Listen on our next segment. We'll be right back after these messages. You're listening to the Extreme Business Show in 5, 4, 3. Welcome back. I'm glad you're joining us on the beautiful Saturday here at CKPM FM. The studio is right in the local Tri-Cities independent radio station location in beautiful downtown Port Moody. My name is Tom MacDonald. I'm a local telecom entrepreneur, and I'm glad and privileged and honored to be hosting this show here, the Extreme Business Show, right here on our local radio station. We've been doing this now for about seven months, bringing topical information, important information, to our listening audience who are entrepreneurs, thinking of getting into business, in business for themselves. Maybe they've been

Radio Interview: Digital Innovations By CKPM FM

in business for a long time. We bring experts on the show every week to help you get your business to a next level of profitability and lifestyle independence.

Darrell Backen, you're knowledgeable, I know for a fact, on digital marketing, because you've helped me with my business on it. Can you tell us what is digital marketing? What does it mean?

YouTube and Google Maps. Items, products that Google owns, they're not going to change the system. Month in, month out is if you do it right it will stay there forever, and that'sCKPM FM: So you're using the tools that Google has already developed, butDarrell Backen: Right. I just use them well.

How Digital marketing has created new opportunities for small business owners Darrell Backen: Digital marketing is the new coin phrase that has come up in the last few years. Basically for people who are experts in taking whatever is online and creating a marketing system behind it there, so basically managing your website, your YouTube, all the methods of developing business online. CKPM FM: What do you do specifically at Backen Media? Backenmedia.com I think is your website. Is that correct? Darrell Backen: That's right. CKPM FM: Obviously you don't own YouTube or Google, but you help businesses, what, optimize that? Can you explain what it is that is important that you can do that can help our clients out there? Darrell Backen: What it is, I've spent the hours of research and development of what works and what doesn't. With Google having your website optimized to fit on the first page of Google is extremely hard because they keep changing the rules every three, four months with a Panda review and all these other things. Their objective is they want to have the items that they have that they own, that that's what I've specialized in, is

CKPM FM: And you're helping people get to the first page, but in a much different fashion than, say, for instance, AdWords or what they call "black hat listings," or black hat way of getting ... I get calls all the time: "Dominate Google first page." I get emails on that. I don't go for them. I went with you. You and I work together on it, and I can attest to you if you want to check really quickly, just type in Google search "business telephone systems Coquitlam," and you'll see that my company dominates the first page and probably the second page with videos and other informations and links that Darrell created or helped me create so that I have a great presence on there. You did that differently than the conventional method.What makes your method different, Darrell, than, say, the average way of doing it? Darrell Backen: The reason my method is different is because I use multi-channel and multi ... using many different ways. If you just do one thing you're only going to get one result, but if you use a multi-channel, multi-platform, multi-leverage system, then there's a better result.

CKPM FM: So you're not doing AdWords specifically. You're doing this as an organic section?

A proven digital system for 10 years Darrell Backen: Everything I do is for organic because I build for the long term. CKPM FM: Okay, so can you give us in maybe a minute, tell us the difference between paid advertising on Google and free advertising, which is where your specialty is? Darrell Backen: The difference is that Google AdWords is a fantastic program, and it's quick and instant, and it works overnight. The only problem with it is that if you put aside a $1,000 budget, when people have clicked on your words enough that they've used up the $1,000, then you disappear. That's the problem is you got to relist it again, but I do know of companies that are spending, $4,000, $5,000, $6,000 a month and they're making $12,000, $15,000 worth of revenue, so I guess they're getting their ... They'll spend $3,000 to get $10,000. It works for them. CKPM FM: So a good value for their money, but not everybody has ... I guess if it returns value then it's good, but the thing about Google AdWords that I found is that the value changes. It's an auction-based system that people may or may not know about. If you're paying $5 an ad and somebody outbids you for pizza, you're owner of a pizza company, and someone outbids you, all of a sudden their ads are getting placed more often than yours are, so all of a sudden you're kicked off. Your system doesn't have that ability for a competitor to kick you off. You got it the

opposite way where you try to kick other people off on the Google organic side. Can you explain that? Darrell Backen: I don't really kick them off. What I do is I place well so that there's only twelve positions on the first page of Google usually. What I do is try to place twelve properly-placed positions that involve your company, so it's not just a website, but seven different methods of media. CKPM FM: If you do it right you're squeezing them out of the first page. Darrell Backen: They end up, because there's only room for 12, if you control the first seven, which I've done many times, then the ones that were on that first seven, they went to Page 2. CKPM FM: Right, okay, so we know that if you're on Page 2 you're nowhere. Darrell Backen: Right. Well, you're somewhere but you're just not as good as CKPM FM: Not going to get found. Darrell Backen: Yeah. CKPM FM: That's for sure. When you get found then the important thing is it takes you to your website, but not necessarily. One of the big things you talk about is that your website necessarily is not the primary online presence you need. There's other forms and tools that you use that are even more efficient and effective than a website.

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Radio Interview: Digital Innovations By CKPM FM

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Press Linkâ&#x2DC;?To See Live Darrell Backen: My basic idea behind it was that when your customer is asking Google questions, they want instant answers, and they want it now, so building a video that answers their question, it's instant, and they have a one-minute solution to their problem, and then they remember you, and they have trust, and they deal with you. CKPM FM: Most people like me, we don't have a lot of time. Maybe you're searching for something. You're looking for the answer. You're not going to browse through somebody's website for a half an hour going, "Oh, these pictures are beautiful." Not too many people have time for that. They want the answer now. They want to get to it fast. What you've done is you've circumvented this website searching, browsing where you get answers faster by giving them the video.

We're going to talk about video in just a few minutes on our next segment and how you've developed a different way of doing video that cuts away from the very expensive, elaborate video postproduction techniques that we thought we had to do. You're listening to the Extreme Business Show. I'm CKPM FM. We'll be right back after these messages. Welcome back. I'm glad you've joined us. You're listening to the Extreme Business Show. My name Tom MacDoanld, and this is a segment about digital marketing. I have in studio with me a friend and special guest who knows what he's talking about when it comes to digital marketing. His name is Darrell Backen from www.backenmedia.com. Darrell, we were just talking about your unique way of doing videos that's different than what we normally think of in videos. Can you talk about that? Darrell Backen: One of the major systems that I've implemented is the most common aggravation that your client has, when they want information they want your phone number. Most people hide it on their website on page 52 under "contact," and it's like 8 point. They have to get their glasses out to read it. The very first thing is that your phone number is front and center on every video. If you have a video and they don't even have to watch the video but they got your phone number because they wanted to find somebody to solve their problem, you've already solved your problem. You've got a customer. Every video that I do, the first thing I do is optimize your phone number at the very top and front center.

Why this digital marketing system works so well.. . 33

see the logo. CKPM FM: Of course, because people can call you right away. The #1 search engine I think everybody knows is Google, but what's the #2 search engine? Darrell Backen: The #2 search engine is YouTube. CKPM FM: Who owns YouTube? Darrell Backen: Google.

Why simple produces greater results CKPM FM: When I click on the video, you don't have necessarily a real-time video. You use a series of pictures or stills to build your videos. Is that right? Darrell Backen: That's right. What I've learned is that using video, it's a real production, and that's why video, to have a professional video company come in and do a video, they need sound men, they need makeup. They need basically seven, eight people to do a good job, and it's thousands of dollars per minutes. CKPM FM: Yeah, it's like $1,000 a minute to get a proper post-production video done.

CKPM FM: Google, so you better be playing by their rules if you want to get found. Doing video, we've done video, you and I have, and you can see my videos. If you just want to get a sample of Darrell's work, you go to, for instance, "business telephone systems Coquitlam." That's the geographic tagline that Darrell builds for you on your company. It can be global. It can be local, and you can see how I dominate, and you can go and watch my videos. However, Darrell, you have a more efficient way or easier way of creating videos called "video billboarding." Could you tell our listeners about that, and how that works, and why it's effective? Darrell Backen: People want to brand their logo, and what I've done is that when customers are searching Google for what you do, I have your logo pop up on the first page of Google. Then it leads to an information video, but the first thing they see is your logo, and that plants in their mind. That's the same as driving down the highway except it's the cyber highway, and you

Darrell Backen: Right. Whereas I don't use that system. What you want to do is tell your story. All I need from you is just either I come out and I take good high-quality digital photographs or you can send me one, people already have them, and I develop a story and I put the titles right on the photographs. If they're not perfecT photographs, then I Photoshop them so they look good. Then I create a video out of the still photographs. CKPM FM: That's perfect, and of course you optimize them so they do get found. During this segment let's talk about three classic mistakes that entrepreneurs are making when they're trying to develop their online presence,

Radio Interview: Digital Innovations By CKPM FM

Darrell. You've lived this. You've seen it with hundreds of websites and hundreds of online presences. What are some of the ... Number one: What's one of the classic mistakes that a business person will make when they're trying to develop their online presence? Darrell Backen: Number one: They don't properly optimize their Google Maps listing. It's a gift from Google that is the most priceless marketing you can have, and most people don't do it, or if they do it, they do it wrong. CKPM FM: Tell me a little bit about Google Maps. What do you mean by that, that they're not doing it properly?

Darrell Backen: Actually when you do a search you end up being on the first page of Google because they give that priority. It's on the first page of Google. If there's enough interest in that search term keyword they give it a map listing. CKPM FM: Oh, okay, and a map listing has ... I've seen those. They're on the right hand side. They're underneath the paid ads, and they have a little pointer or a dart that shows where you are on the map, and it also shows your address and phone number so that people can click on that and dial you up directly, right? Darrell Backen: That's right. CKPM FM: Then if they open that up then they can get to videos and other ... Darrell Backen: Yes. CKPM FM: ... pieces. That's #1. Give me another classic mistake that people, businesses will make when they're doing or developing their online presence.

Darrell Backen: They have not optimized for everything they do and every city that they serve, and they've not put in ... You can put in up to three videos and 10 photographs, and they're not doing that. CKPM FM: Okay. Probably people don't know about it. Darrell Backen: No, they don't know about it.

Darrell Backen: A lot of people are doing their own websites, and they don't know that they have to give an instruction to Google as to what your site is all about, and they're leaving their basically page title and page description blank. What happens is that Google, the little search bots, they're looking for something to figure out what that's about, and they're searching your entire ... They'll end up grabbing a piece of text, or even if there's not text, if you've used a whole bunch of pictures on your first page, they'll use the small little thing at the bottom of the page, which is a disclaimer usually. That's what you're getting optimized for is the disclaimer.

CKPM FM: Yeah, they don't, and where does that show up? If I've optimized, if you've helped me optimize my Google Maps properly, how does that change the way I get found on Google?

other way around. They get a web designer and beautiful pictures and artwork and fancy fonts, not getting found. It's just going to waste. Darrell Backen: That's right. CKPM FM: Grandma finds it and that's about it. Darrell Backen: Right, because she was sent the link.

Why your website is not producing the results it needs CKPM FM: Businesses listening out there might go, "Yeah, but I've got a professional doing my website." I'm here to tell you I've seen professional websites that are missing the H1, H2, H3 tagging. You've probably seen that as well. So even professionals are missing this kind of stuff. Darrell Backen: There's a big misconception between a website designer and a person who's placing it on the Internet. Pretty pictures is what you have. What I make the analogy is when I build something I build it as a race car to win the race. Then we give it to the people ... CKPM FM: Drive it. Darrell Backen: ... yeah, to make nice pictures and put a nice paint job on it and all the logos, so build something that will first win the race, and then dress it up. CKPM FM: People are doing it the

CKPM FM: We're going to be right back with the #3 mistake that entrepreneurs and small business and medium business owners, even large businesses classically make when they're doing their online presence in digital marketing. You're listening to the Extreme Business Show on CKPM FM. Welcome back, and thanks for joining us. My name is Tom MacDonald. You're listening to CKPM FM. We are local Tri-Cities independent radio station, and this is the Extreme Business Show, Saturday mornings 8:30, so listen in. We have great guests every week. Our goal is to give you the power, the tools, the knowledge, the time, the effort so that you can translate that into money and lifestyle in your business and be more successful. In this studio session we have Darrell Backen from Backen Media. He's going to give away a gift here. He's got a gift for you at the end of the show, and we're going to talk to you about that, but the #3 mistake we're going to get into, we covered the first two, Google Maps, and

Radio Interview: Digital Innovations By CKPM FM

then the second one was tagging your website, what's another classic mistake that you find out there when you're helping people develop their digital presence?

The big mistake of how youâ&#x20AC;&#x2122;re letting 80% of your business not find you ...SEO

and "s" and "painters" without an "s," there's a seven times more people looking for "painters" with an "s."

CKPM FM: Finding out what search terms are even going to drive business to your site is important, and you can do that. Darrell Backen: Yes. CKPM FM: You can helpDarrell Backen: There's special software that I do.

Darrell Backen: A lot of companies are making the mistake of having four or five keyword search terms and building their entire site around it, and they're using what they think people are searching for. It is not necessarily the same thing. I have a special software program that I would type in. An example is painters. People think "house painters" would be a good search term. Ten times more people are searching for "painting contractors" instead of "house painters," and the difference of "painter" with

CKPM FM: Yeah, okay, and so don't guess. Just go to somebody who knows what they're doing. Darrell, as a matter of fact, which is a good time to segue into it, Darrell Backen: What I'll do is I'll give them a customized analysis of what they're missing on their digital marketing systems. Most people don't know what they're missing. I'll take a look at your site and I'll take a look at what you're missing, because I have a little schedule of what should be there, and I'll let you know. CKPM FM: Okay, so you'll be able to analyze what's happening that most of us don't even know. So many people have websites out there that aren't getting addressed properly. They're old. They're tired, or they're just not getting found because they just haven't done it quite right or they've got the wrong people and the wrong chair doing the wrong skill set on

their website or online presence. We don't have as much time, as we'd love to get into all of this, but if you go to backenmedia.com there's a lot more online stuff that you can ... free information from Darrell, it's great, like all our guests tend to bring us on this particular program. What are some of the things that people should be doing? If they can't use your services or they're not going to engage you, what would you recommend that they should do? What are the top maybe two or three things in the next couple of minutes that we have that you would recommend that they do?

Darrell Backen: Go to your library and do the research as to what can be done. An excellent resource that most people don't use is Small Business BC, which is in the train station downtown where the C Bus is, and it's an excellent resource for all types of things to help your business. I strongly recommend them, Small Business BC. CKPM FM: Good place to research. Excellent. I think you mentioned also getting your Google maps going, and if you're not sure how to do that, go see Darrell. He'll help you out with that as well. We got a couple more minutes here. You also talk about video education marketing. I've talked about this on the show a lot that what we really should be doing when we're trying to pull in clients and create a business is not telling them how great you are but actually offering them free advice or gifting advice to them, giving them education like we do on this show. Is that something you agree it that should be done online? Are businesses missing out if they're not doing educational marketing?

Darrell Backen: Basically there are 20 questions that every company has always asked. Provide answers to those 20 questions in a video format so that when your clients are searching online you pop up with the answer. You've now created ... You've solved their problem. They know about you. They've got credibility with you, and you haven't hard-sold them. CKPM FM: That's hard selling. We're doing soft selling or as Colin Sprake even likes to say, sold selling as opposed to soft selling. Listen, Darrell, it's been great having you on this show.

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DARRELL BACKEN DIGITAL Innovation of merging print with digital. This magazine was designed to be watched not read. Whenever you hover over a section of a page and it turns blue double click on it itâ&#x20AC;&#x2122;ll take you to that video. A video gives a complete show + tell to give you information to make a well-informed decision

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DARRELL BACKEN Google recognizes Darrell Backen As An Author for Digital Marketing https://bit.ly/2OShxLz Press to see it live

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ABOUT DA Doug (DA) Anderson has created a Management Training Program used by over 300 businesses in the past 15 years. The program objective is to increase the business and management job skills of the business owner and their staff. The program comes from the experience of attending 25 years of sales training programs from IBM, Apple, Mitsubishi and over 100 other management-training sessions. The trainers were Tom Hopkins, Steven Covey, Brian Tracy and other leaders of the business training community. In addition to 30 years of business management experience, DA has also trained business owners through volunteer work with the Canadian Youth Business Foundation (7 yrs), SUCCESS (5 yrs) and YMCA Entrepreneur Program (2 yrs) showing a big dedication to helping entrepreneurs succeed.

I help people build their own "field of dreams" and achieve their goals

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The TOP 5 biggest problems facing business owners and sales managers are: 1. 2.

your sales process could be improved (profit focus and sales pipeline) “people effectiveness” (have you the right people in the right roles?)

time management and prioritization (improve your ‘juggling’ quality)

decision making and goal setting (they need to be written down)

putting the right systems in place to improve (by documenting repetitive tasks)

We have world-class assessment systems to help identify potential problems in hiring and staffing. We use world-class materials to help implement change and develop internal systems. Then we offer ongoing mentoring to ensure new plans are implemented and followed through for as long as it takes to reach success. I help people build their own "field of dreams" and achieve their goals. Strategize. Organize. Globalize. Vancouver Business Trainer Doug (DA) Anderson

At DA top Talent, we help you with these problems with our comprehensive business coaching service for those who want more out of life, or for those who’ve hit a ‘glass ceiling’ in their business.

DA Top Talent 604.738.4786 604-897-6152 Cell datoptalent@gmail.com Use My App http://d1.tel/

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Press Linkâ&#x2DC;?To Listen Darrell Backen: Hi DA. Thanks for meeting with me today on the phone and I've got a few questions about your business. Excellent. Now what is a business mentor? DA (Doug)Anderson: A mentor is you want to invest their time and effort into their mentorship duties and they truly want to help a mentee grow in their personal and professional life. The best mentors teach mentees their insight, draw from their experiences, and provide once in a lifetime education.

Well, excellent. What, talk a, what topics do you discuss when you need DA (Doug)Anderson: the common topics? Mentees asked me to work on include their communication skills, their leadership skills, networking tips, uh, work life balance, learning and teaching and developing their organizational culture purposefully and also for higher end management skills. Oh, great. Darrell Backen: Uh, could you please break down a few of these topics and provide details. For instance, leadership

DA (Doug)Anderson: for leadership. For entrepreneurs, it's critical to understand their mission, their vision, and the Darrell Backen: values that they want to have both for themselves, Oh, that sounds great. Why do you do what you do? their actions, their decision making, their employees, their suppliers and their customers. And good businesses have defined values in the DA (Doug)Anderson: area of management. For example, who is going to My mission is to help entrepreneurs succeed by be on the organizational chart? So three years from helping the little guy. It's something I love doing. now, what's the plan? Who will you have on your Getting the underdog to overachieve is extremely board of advisors? The third pillar is operations. All satisfying in business and sports and in life. And good companies have systems and processes. What I've adjusted my mentoring so that we can meet should yours be? Great companies or banks and virtually. I've had clients overseas and all over credit unions have operations manuals with details North America, so helping people outside of about every transaction, but a lot of small Vancouver is not an issue. businesses don't even have a one or two page guide so that the owner can transfer and delegate duties better. A fourth pillar, Darrel is finance and do you Darrell Backen: Oh, excellent. What does working on your business really understand your books, your cashflow? Are you getting the right information on a timely basis? mean to you? Uh, the last two pillars of every great business is lead generation and this is where we need to reach DA (Doug)Anderson: and communicate with all customers and also find out what the businesses 90 day marketing plan is. This is a phrase I learned from my mentor. His And the last pillar for us is with lead conversion. name was Michael Gerber, and he was the author of the key method with this. Is it a book that I ask And when we take our clients and turn them into a raving testimonials, we know we've done a good all my clients to read? And when we're talking job. about working on the business, we want to make sure that we're taking a good overview of objectively, rationally, non emotionally about the Darrell Backen: business, its parameters, its success, it's a potential and really examining the business from a Excellent. What qualities should a good mentor possess? number of different pillars. Darrell Backen:

DA (Doug)Anderson:

I think a willingness to share skills, knowledge and expertise. Definitely if they were a nurturer, somebody who truly got satisfaction from helping others, that would be another great quality to have. I think for me it's important to demonstrate a positive attitude and that as a positive role model in decisions and voluntary work in the community and parenting and also upsell relations or partner relations, all important about the life balance. The last couple of qualities that should be mentioned is if someone who also takes an interest in the mentoring relationship and goes beyond an hour by hour basis to really look out for information, research and tips, somebody who exhibits enthusiasm in the field and in the industry, and lastly they have the values of ongoing learning and growth and that makes a good mentor. I truly believe that everybody should learn something new every day. Darrell Backen: Excellent. Who else would you recommend that I connect with? DA (Doug)Anderson: Feel free to contact any of the da top talent clients over the last 30 years. Most of all know me by da. It's my nickname from university of Victoria. Some might know me as Doug Anderson, but I've helped small businesses for many years. Prior to starting DEA top talent. 20 years ago I spent time with both Apple and Mitsubishi working with their dealers, helping their small businesses grow. The question too of who else you could recommend that connection with. I think Darrell, this question is probably best served for a later meeting when there's trust, the two parties. I know I can exponentially expand somebody's network, but I really want to make sure I'm doing it for the benefit of both parties and not just exchanging business cards in a mass gathering. I like being very purposeful with my connections Darrell Backen: That I, I agree with it too. DA (Doug)Anderson: Okay. Darrell Backen:

Well thank you for meeting with me today and, um, I look forward to meeting with you again. DA (Doug)Anderson: All the best and I really appreciate the time and effort you've spent and giving me a listen. Thank you.

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