Experiencing Sophiatown
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Experiencing Sophiatown
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Experiencing Sophiatown Conversations among Residents about the Past, Present and Future of a Community
Edited and compiled by David Thelen and Karie L. Morgan In collaboration with Judi Bennett, Thomas Chapman, Natasha Erlank, Yavini Naidoo, Cora Matthysen and Desmond Sheik
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First published by Fanele, an imprint of Jacana Media (Pty) Ltd, in 2013 10 Orange Street Sunnyside Auckland Park 2092 South Africa +2711 628 3200 www.jacana.co.za Š David Thelen and Karie L. Morgan, 2013 All rights reserved. ISBN 978-1-920196-88-2 Also available as an e-book ePub ISBN 978-1-920196-99-8 mobi ISBN 978-1-928232-00-1 d-PDF ISBN 978-1-920196-89-9 Cover design by publicide Set in New Baskerville 9/14pt Job no. 002047 See a complete list of Jacana titles at www.jacana.co.za
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EXP E RI E NCIN G SOPHIATOWN
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Contents
Map of Sophiatown. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . vii An Introductory Note
David Thelen and Karie L. Morgan. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ix
Chapter 1: Getting Acquainted with Neighbours on the Block. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1
Block Group Meeting – Good and Gold
Streets – 7 June 2009. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2
Block Group Meeting – Bertha Street –
24 June 2009 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9
Chapter 2: Visualising a Shared Place and Making a Shared Past. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 21
Chapter 3: Making Family around Mealtimes . . . . . . . . 57
Remembering Family Mealtimes:
A Conversation among Sophiatown
Cooking Club Members –
15 October 2011 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 58
Glimpses of Cooking in Sophiatown. . . . . . . . . . . . . . 65
Comment – Challenges of Modern
Mealtimes: Reflections by René
Lombardi – 11 October 2012 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 66
Comment – Making Food and Heritage:
Reflections by Tshepo Letsoalo –
13 September 2012. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 72
Good and Gold Streets – Photovoice
Chapter 4: Becoming Neighbours and
Discussion – 28 June and 15 July 2009. . . . . . . . . . 23
Creating Community. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 75
Bertha Street – Photovoice Discussion –
Raising a Family with Neighbours:
19 July 2009 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 40
A Workshop – 23 May 2012. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 77
Contents
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Comment – Getting to Know Neighbours
Struggling with Memories of Triomf and
and Choosing a Neighbourhood:
Sophiatown: A Conversation between a
Reflections by Sebastian van Rayne –
Mother and Daughter – 3 August 2009 . . . . . . . . . 136
25 November 2012. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 84
Comparing Sophiatown and Westbury:
Comment – Overcoming Barriers to
A Conversation across Generations –
Become Better Neighbours: Reflections
27 October 2012 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 140
by Noeriena Hendricks –
24 November 2012. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 90
New Choices and Responsibilities in the
New South Africa: Conversations among
Keeping your Family Safe: A Workshop
Toby Street Residents – 27 June and
– 19 May 2012. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 93
4 August 2009. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 145
Encountering and Helping People in
Encountering and Overcoming Shifting
Distress: A Conversation among Young
Barriers through the South African
People – 9 October 2010. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 100
Transition – Reflections by Erica Moumakwa –
29 October 2012 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 149
Comment – Growing Up and Helping
Others: A Conversation between Two
Exploring New Ways of Relating in the
Sisters – 8 November 2012 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 108
New South Africa: A Conversation with
Comment – Making a Difference in your
a Couple from the Old South Africa –
Community: Reflections by Noeriena
10 May 2012. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 155
Hendricks – 18 November 2012 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 115
Contemplating Ways toward a
Comment – Helping South Africans in Need:
New South African Future: A Visit to
Reflections by Charles Kwasi Asare –
a Mysterious Room – 4 October 2012 . . . . . . . . . . 160
9 November 2012 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 120
Chapter 5: Experiencing Change. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 125
Living over Half a Century in a Changing
Sophiatown: A Conversation with Long-time
Residents – 8 November 2011. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 127
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Epilogue Pastor Desmond Sheik . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 171 Acknowledgements. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 175
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Map of Sophiatown
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An Introductory Note by David Thelen and Karie L. Morgan
T
he names of Sophiatown and Triomf evoke
experiences and values in order to face the challenges
images of a storied and unique place in South
of life: raising and educating children, earning a
Africa’s history. Here was the world-renowned,
living, overcoming crime or finding ways to make a
multi-racial birthplace of modern urban African arts
difference in shaping their community. This book,
like jazz and poetry. And here too the new National
then, is at once about a very special place and about
Party government first put residential apartheid into
challenges of making community anywhere.
practice in the late 1950s by forcibly removing some 65 000 Sophiatown residents, bulldozing buildings
This book records conversations in which Sophiatown
and replacing them with cheap housing for whites.
residents reflected on the challenges they faced as
They renamed the place Triomf to proclaim the
they experienced life in this community as well as
triumph of one people over others.
in the broader world. What was special about these conversations was how richly residents grounded
But the Sophiatown that has been forming since
them in their everyday lives and relationships, on
desegregation in the 1990s is less a unique place
the one hand, and how broadly they incorporated
than a fairly typical neighbourhood where residents
concerns of South Africans and others everywhere
are living out themes often identified with the “new”
on the other. Because Sophiatown’s concerns are
South Africa. Today’s residents are generally familiar
shared so widely we expect residents of other South
with the special pasts of this place – and sometimes
African communities will recognise the challenges
express feelings of anger, pride and shame about
Sophiatown residents described.
these pasts – but they more often depict that history as remote from their lives. For them Sophiatown
Residents reported that what they liked least about
is a place where people from all over the country,
life in Sophiatown was that people had built imposing
indeed the world, are trying to find and make shared
barriers around themselves – barriers policed with An Introductory Note
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electrified fences, snarling dogs and suspicions
of those conversations by a researcher. Each chapter
grounded in past conflicts – that often distanced them
begins with a brief introduction in which we set the
from their neighbours. What many wanted most was
scenes of each transcript and identify what we saw as
to lower those barriers and turn their neighbours from
the main themes in that chapter’s transcripts. But in
strangers to be feared into people who could help
the end residents themselves, not we, identified the
them face their challenges in this place. Many wanted
book’s themes and its words. They did so out of the
to build deeper relationships with their neighbours
needs and rhythms of everyday conversation. They
and, thereby, become participants in nurturing a
were the ones living in and making the community.
richer community life. Feeling isolated in their homes
And so the first word in the title, “experience”, signals
and wanting to turn strangers into neighbours, they
that this is a book about how residents experienced
illustrated through the conversations in this book how
Sophiatown rather than what others have said was
conversation in and of itself can actually help to bring
important about it. And it is the process by which
community into being.
residents themselves shaped this book that makes it an original and significant contribution to such
This book is composed of transcriptions of what
diverse fields as oral history, community studies and
residents said to each other rather than evaluations
civic organising and engagement.
Sophiatown Project Community Meeting, 23 October 2010
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The book models and illustrates how, when individuals
to compare how their experiences and observations
have an apolitical forum in which to engage with a
fit within the reader’s experiences and thereby invites
small group of different people – to discuss common
and empowers the reader to form the final word, the
concerns or meet new people – the act of everyday
conclusions, about the subject. So we hope readers will
talk creates a rich exploration of how people
imagine themselves in the conversation, interested in
nurture relationships and experience community.
pulling up a chair and joining in.
Sophiatown residents engaged in the give and take of conversation as they tried to meet their own and others’ needs, generating a more frank, natural and
Reflecting back on how we came to facilitate a
open-ended exploration of common concerns as well
book grounded in relationships and conversations
as disagreements. Unconstrained by fixed agendas,
in Sophiatown feels like both a natural outgrowth
the conversations flowed from one subject to another
of a project that began in 2008 and an improvised
and back again. People asked about and followed up
outcome of repeated trial and error. The starting
on their concerns. People gained and lost confidence
point was not a book at all but a broad civic
in their observations as they engaged with others.
engagement initiative in which Sophiatown residents
Because everyday talk is so familiar, flexible and
would collaborate with University of Johannesburg
open-ended – “cheap”, as the cliché goes – people
facilitators to explore how, by sharing experiences,
were much more comfortable expressing candid
residents could develop shared and more personally
thoughts and asking politically incorrect questions.
relevant perspectives on what was important in their
When a resident, René Lombardi, arrived late at a group discussion and was asked for her observations on a touchy subject, her mother, Thea Ouwenkamp,
pasts than those offered by political leaders and formal history classrooms. Those new perspectives on history could generate new ways of defining
reassured her that she could speak freely: “It’s just
community needs and of trying to meet them.
talking,” she explained. Talk seemed natural, safe
From the start, the direction of the project was
and free. This book, then, is as much about the art
shaped by collaboration between UJ facilitators and
of conversation – about how conversation feels and
Sophiatown residents. In 2008 two local residents,
what it can do for relating with others – as it is about
Judi Bennett and Clement Baai, encouraged
particular topics.
Dave Thelen and Tom Chapman to launch this collaboration on their street, Good Street. Following
A challenge of this approach is that it places unfamiliar
Judi and Clement’s example in organising a meeting
expectations on readers about how to engage with the
of Good and Gold street residents, Dave and Tom
text. Instead of encountering an author’s conclusions
generated similar meetings for Bertha Street, Toby
about a subject, this book invites the reader to
Street and the police flats. The first block meetings
empathise with the challenges residents are exploring,
in 2009 focused on what people liked and disliked
An Introductory Note
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in common with people around them. Their first activity, as developed in Chapter 2, was to take pictures of things and people that were important to them and then to share their perspectives with others on their block. The block meetings generated enthusiasm and great questions, but none of us was quite sure what concrete project(s) could fulfil this promise. With support from the Dutch and South African governments, we turned to the Institute for Democracy in Africa (IDASA), an NGO that did creative community organising, to help the residents themselves surface meaningful initiatives. In a series of community meetings in 2010 IDASA worked with UJ facilitators to assist residents in identifying projects they wanted to work on by responding to the question, “What can we do together to create a new history?” At the next meeting residents grouped them into agendas for projects. Some formed a committee which they hoped could make a book that would somehow assist residents in getting to know their neighbours, to identify common fears and hopes and to reflect on the challenges of making a new South Africa, along with a new Sophiatown. Residents’ objectives that founded the book group, 6 November 2010
Over the next year this loose group tried to figure out
about living in Sophiatown. Those meetings, the
what such a book would look like and how to create
subject of Chapter 1, identified the challenge that
it. At various points the group and its individual
would drive the project from its origins to the present
members carried out initiatives like personal history
book. Participants said what they disliked most was
writing, family tree workshops, a “Tell Your Story”
that Sophiatown was a place where they felt isolated,
day to gather residents’ personal histories, a survey
a place where their neighbours were strangers. They
of residents’ experiences, a group that focused on the
wanted to talk about the habits, fears and suspicions
concerns of young people and a series of workshops
that kept them apart and to explore what they had
about safety and security.
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book group meetings. Because our aim as UJ facilitators was not to collect data but to provide an opportunity for people to hear how others thought about a theme, the actual focus of a conversation often shifted as it unfolded. For example, in Chapter 4, a 2012 workshop designed to map relationships among neighbours evolved into a discussion of how the need to create safe homes and neighbourhoods for their children actually drove their choices of which neighbours they wanted to get close to. The edited transcripts of these conversations First meeting of book group, 6 November 2010: Dave, Emily, Sam, Yavini, Mbali, Desmond, Gladys
formed the core of each chapter, but in order to
Amid these initiatives, many of which find expression
imagine that they had been present at the original
in this book’s transcripts, developers of the book
conversation and talk about what they might have
began to see clearly by the time of a meeting of the
contributed. At first we further imagined that these
book group in December 2011 that conversation
commentators would evaluate the transcripts for
was the best core for this book. After all, during
possible inclusion in the book. We soon learned,
the block meetings of 2009 we had discovered how
however, that they approached this task not as a call
conversation was what connected individuals to
to criticism but as an invitation to pull up a chair
others and provided a springboard for experiencing
and add their experiences and perspectives to the
and imagining community. And, as residents
original conversation. And so the process modelled
Desmond Sheik and Jackey Klow pointed out at that
how we hope readers will engage with the book,
December meeting, the book’s focus on conversation
testing what participants talked about against their
could draw both residents and readers into further
own experiences.
widen perspectives on the subject we asked others to
conversation. Those conversations in turn would provide multiple entry points for residents and
We have taken several steps to try to insure the
readers to explore their own concerns.
accuracy of transcripts. Recordings were transcribed by experienced transcriptionists. When we or other
We designed each conversation as an opportunity
participants remembered things differently we
for residents both to get to know one another and
replayed the recording and compared it with the
to compare experiences and thoughts. The actual
transcript to ascertain both the exact words and
topics of discussion grew out of concerns residents
correct identity of speakers. When we completed
had raised either in informal conversation or in
editing the transcript in the form we intended to
An Introductory Note
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appear in the book, we gave speakers the opportunity
residents’ association and community networks or
to look over proposed text and correct their language
by interviewing people for the Sophiatown Cooking
or clarify their intent. Most approved the text, often
Club cookbook. These kinds of relationships, not an
explaining that they wanted their words to remain as
attempt to be representative or to cover particular
they were in the original conversation. A few made
topics, drove the selection of participants.
changes to clarify their meaning. At this time we asked speakers to choose whether they wanted to
In many ways these relationships were like others
be identified by first name and surname, first name
in our daily lives. Over the years participants in the
only or pseudonym. Most chose to include their full
projects became friends who recognised each other’s
names. Only one speaker selected a pseudonym.
personalities and interests. But of course, whatever
In editing the transcripts, we struggled to strike a
residents felt about us as individuals, everyone
balance between the rhythms and words of everyday
knew we were not Sophiatown residents and that
talk – in which people interrupt and complete
we had our own (individual) experiences as white,
other’s thoughts, speak at the same time, start to
English-speaking, American academics. We were
say something and reverse course and signal their
curiosities as well as friends and acquaintances. In
encouragement – and the formal and more legible
group discussions we knew that our self-defined
rules of written language. A verbatim transcript
roles as facilitators rather than as participants
would have been much harder to read.
generated the expectation that we in some way guide conversations. At the same time, coming from a land
The speakers in this book were individuals we
where conversation about race is much less candid
encountered in a number of contexts. Some were
than in South Africa, we were at first worried that
connected to the broader UJ project through
when a conversation somehow became involved with
participation in its steering committee, youth group
racial differences people would withdraw from the
or cooking club. Dave and Tom met many people in
project. We both recall feeling uncomfortable during
facilitating block groups in 2009 and they brought
a meeting of the book committee in 2011 at which
their friends into this project. Another UJ facilitator,
a coloured woman and an Afrikaans woman – both
Yavini Naidoo, practiced as a dentist in Sophiatown
long-time Sophiatown residents – recalled vivid
and invited some of her patients to workshops she
images of white residents chasing non-white kids
conducted for her master’s thesis. In 2011 and 2012,
who might have caused trouble. And yet this served
with several residents, we conducted a residents’ survey
as a learning moment for us to see how residents,
– designed by the book committee – by interviewing
rather than we, should – and did – decide how they
either friends or neighbours or approaching
wanted to talk about or avoid topics.
strangers outside Shoprite or when walking in the streets or working in their gardens. Karie Morgan
In the chapters that follow, residents got to know
met other individuals through participation in the
each other and compared their experiences,
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reflected on how life in Sophiatown has changed over time and considered how to create a community that meets their needs and hopes. In the first two chapters, groups of residents tried to get to know one another as neighbours and individuals by talking about what was important to them about life in the area. In the third chapter, individuals described memories of making and eating food as part of how each experienced family. In the fourth chapter, residents considered extending relationships with and responsibilities to those beyond their families and how to create a supportive and safe community. Everyone was mindful of the political transformation in South Africa and in Chapter 5 residents reflected on whether, how much and in what ways their lives were changing as a result. The book concludes with Pastor Desmond Sheik’s reflection on what these conversations can contribute as inspiration Jennifer, Cathy, Dirk and Karie at Cathy’s and Dirk’s birthday celebration, 20 April 2013
for making Sophiatown a better place to stay. It is authored by the man whose vision guided and nurtured the book through all its twists and turns. He wraps up with a challenge to each of us to act on what we’ve learned about the potential power of earnest conversation to bring about the sorts of relationships and community that may allow each of us to better face the challenges of everyday life in Sophiatown or anywhere.
An Introductory Note
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1
Experiencing Sophiatown
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1
Getting Acquainted with Neighbours on the Block
O
n a Sunday afternoon, 7 June 2009, 13 residents
people liked and disliked about life in Sophiatown,
of the southern end of Good and Gold streets
how they wanted to reshape that life and how they
came together in a park that joined their two
could get to know their neighbours better.
streets to discuss how they could get to know each other better and how together they might build a
When the conversations began, few of the participants
community on their streets that could better meet
knew each other. Some had lived for decades
their needs. Seventeen days later, on the evening of
in Sophiatown. Others had moved there quite
24 June 2009, 13 residents of Bertha Street convened
recently. With Dave facilitating, the conversations
at the nearby NG Kerk to discuss the same concerns.
revolved around concerns about getting to know neighbours better and making a difference in
The two meetings were the first fruits of a
shaping the community’s future. Residents took
collaboration between University of Johannesburg
the conversations in several different directions.
organisers and Sophiatown residents. The initial
Some spoke of their intimate hopes and fears about
meeting was organised by Judi Bennett and Clement
staying here. Others referred to how personal
Baai, residents of Good Street, and Dave Thelen
experiences in the nation and Sophiatown had
and Tom Chapman, then coordinators of field work
shaped their perspectives on life here. They brought
for the UJ Sophiatown Project. Judi and Clement
up experiences and perspectives they shared as well
distributed fliers inviting their neighbours to the
as those they disagreed about. But by the end of
Good and Gold streets meeting. Tom and Dave
both two-hour meetings, most participants said that
approached residents of Bertha Street as they arrived
they felt that the conversations had brought them
home from work in the evenings and invited them
closer together and they looked forward to carrying
to the Bertha Street meeting. The organisers told
this further at future meetings.
residents that the conversations would centre on what
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Block Group Meeting Good and Gold Streets 7 June 2009 *
First meeting of Good and Gold streets block group
Dave Thelen: You’ve been talking with each other in small groups. Can you report now what you discussed in your group about what struck you as important when you were thinking about moving or leaving here, what you like about life here, what is less attractive? Judi Bennett: Sarel, you and I have just about had the entire discussion without the microphone so we will have to start over again. Sarel van der Berg: We moved in here about 1973. Elise and Clement in small group conversation
It’s a beautiful place to stay in. You could go to the shops and leave your door open. We did leave it open
* This conversation happened in the park where Good and Gold streets join. Participants included: Dave Thelen, Tom Chapman, Judi Bennett, Sarel van der Berg, Mrs van der Berg, Earl, Elise, Clement Baai, Mervyn Naidoo, Bashni Naidoo, Bettie Pretorius, Pieter Blignaut, Malie Moodliar and Renate van Gruenen.
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and nothing happened. Triomf was Telkom’s area.
formally introduced each other. Today we’ve met,
Most of the blokes in Telkom stayed in Triomf. Other
you understand. And then through this gathering,
owners were the police and bus drivers.
our children are going to benefit. When I’m not
Elise: Clement and I spoke about how long we both have lived here and what we would like to see in the area, like a community centre – a recreation place for kids, adults, a library, that type of thing – where you don’t have to go out of the area to other areas to enjoy those facilities, but you can actually have it in the area. Dave: And were there things you specifically liked
here, if Auntie Bettie sees someone standing here in front of my gate, she should say, “Heya, what are you doing here? Clement is not here. Who are you?” I just found out the lady at the corner house passed away a month ago. I only found out a week after. When I went to go sympathise, the man said, “I didn’t know who to tell in the street.” Which is so sad. Dave: Does that sound familiar to others? Mervyn Naidoo: As Clement said we feel the same
here? Clement Baai: We came from different areas. I said to Elise that my reasons for moving here were number one, affordability, number two, the place is very central. It’s quite safe. Look, there are some incidents, we heard about a few incidents, but it’s quite safe. And then also the history of this place. Dave: What do you mean by that?
way. We’ve got kids in the same class and the same school, but we don’t know each other. There is no communication. Nobody wants to take the time to get to know your neighbour. We are four years in this area. What we found is that a lot of the white folks in the area are unfriendly. When we greet them they don’t greet back. It’s sad. Judi: Well, Sarel and Bettie were talking about the old
Clement: Look, we know how Sophiatown happened.
days when this park was a place their children played,
We know it was Sophiatown first, Triomf, then again
with the little cars and etc. and what I noticed here is
Sophiatown. We know about the Miriam Makebas,
you don’t see that any longer. Inherently we are very
the Desmond Tutus. We know that this was the area
similar and we would like to live our lives as they lived in
where all the races lived together. And I just found
Triomf and the areas I lived in. We have similar things
out a few years ago that my house was a photo studio.
in common. It seems that because we lived in different
We never knew, you understand. I was saying that
areas we have not found the common ground we have.
you guys are walking on holy ground here. We know
I would also like to see the children play safely. I would
that Meadowlands people are coming from here.
like to see the children play in the street; and in the
A certain part of Westbury and Newclare was born
same way, I would like to see what Sarel saw in the past
out of Triomf/Sophiatown. So I was saying to Bashni
happen all over again, irrespective of the colour of the
that a gathering like this is good in a sense that one
child. It just has to be the community that you want to
of my daughters is in her son’s class. We’ve never
see, the way you remember it.
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can’t allow people to come and sit here. Look at this thing. Someone was sitting there and drinking. Mervyn: We see it all the time. My neighbour, the pastor, gets his boy and comes and cleans up and it’s not right. Judi: Whose responsibility is that in a sense? Firstly it’s against the law to drink in public, so we could have called the police. We could have had people make sure this is a no-go area. This is a park and Sarel and his wife, Malie Moodliar and Judi in small group conversation
this is what is allowed in a park. I think sometimes we tend to see things but don’t take responsibility. I want to stress the aspect, until we got to know each other,
Dave: How do you remember it? The same way?
we didn’t know who was going to do it. Now that we
Bettie Pretorius: The same way as it was. We lived
do know each other we need to take responsibility for
here now 28 years in this house. To me it’s still the same except the children can’t play outside. And now
our own area, be a bit more proactive. These things don’t need to happen. I believe if those children know
they can’t play rugby in the field.
there is an area that those aunties and uncles are
Mervyn: The kids are scared of the hooligans. I
it. We take ownership of it. As adults we shouldn’t
wouldn’t allow our kids out of the gates if I’m not here. They play with the bikes on the road and it’s safe, but if we see the hooligans on the road we take them back in. Clement: I was just saying to Elise about three weeks ago I came past here and there was a group of 15 school children sitting here. Boys and girls and they were drinking. I chased them away. The thing is they
going to give you a hard time, they are going to avoid neglect our responsibility to teach children that what you are doing is wrong. Whether they accept it or not we still have to try. Mervyn: I have actually tried to do that once when they abused the swings and they told me, “It’s not yours, go away.” You don’t want a confrontation because the parents can shoot you.
are not even from this area. So our children can’t
Judi: Now you mention something about someone
come and play here. And then they have the audacity
going to take out a gun and shoot you; and we
to say to me, “It’s my money. I bought the liquor with
carry on living in this particular mindset. We also
my money.” But the thing is, they won’t be allowed
pass that on to our children. We become more and
to go and buy. They get someone else to buy it for
more drawn in, blocked in, and we are always afraid.
them. I believe that it is the car guards. These are
Besides, if the guy came with a gun, ons moer and
the type of things that we must come up against. We
bliksem and donner. Take the gun away.
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Mervyn: At the same time the neighbour doesn’t
Bashni Naidoo: So we can stop at least half of the
want to take a chance either.
traffic from Westbury.
Judi: That’s why we need to get to know each other.
Judi: Okay, we will probably choose to do that as a
It’s not a matter of you just getting to know your
community at another meeting and see what we can
neighbour. It’s sometimes a matter of seeing another
do with that.
person in the same way that you would see yourself and treat each other in the same way that you would want to be treated. And you find the old fashioned
Dave: So, what other things did you talk about in
cliché, respect breeds respect. By knowing each
your groups?
other, we get to understand each other. Let’s go a
Sarel: Sophiatown has the Helen Joseph Hospital.
little further.
That was a number one hospital. The first angiogram
Elise: It’s safer not to get involved but then you are
I had was there, R45 and they kept me there for a
going to let things happen. Judi: But if you teach that to your child we’re going to eventually live in communities where everything is bricked in. We are going to have to press our fingers to open the gate. We will be bricked in. You might
week. Bettie: Die was a skoon hospitaal gewees. Sarel: It was the heart transplant place, the best. Judi: Incidentally, has the clinic finally opened?
as well close down the park area and we’re not going
Sarel: There seems to be a new building.
to do anything about it because we’re not getting
Judi: So it has.
involved.
Bashni: We also talked about the schools in the area.
Mervyn: But the thing is we can’t do it alone.
There is an Afrikaans school here and I think that’s it.
Judi: No, I agree, and that is why we have to do it as
Judi: That school has only recently introduced
a forum. He spoke about so many things that we’re
English instruction. They started at Grade 0. They’ve
not aware of. We didn’t know there was a committee
now reached I think Grade 4 with English but the
in this area. So basically what those people are doing
rest is Afrikaans.
is absolutely nothing. We live in this particular area. We can try to do something because they can’t. We can try. Judi: Yes, we can. If that’s what it takes we can.
Sarel: One of the best things they ever had in those years was a dual medium. I never knew Afrikaans. Judi: The West Rand Primary, the English medium school, is a Seventh Day Adventist private school.
Bettie: They closed that one alleyway there and it’s
Now you see a lot of people may not want their
safer when it’s closed.
children to go to West Rand because it’s a Seventh
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Day Adventist school and they have chapel. It’s a
matter. And no one wants to take the time to help.
different thing depending on your religion. We did
Which is sad. We are building a community.
let my nephew and niece go there because we had no affiliation with any church and we thought this would serve both purposes. They could go to chapel and school. But once that was finished then we had to take them to other high schools.
Judi: I was speaking to your mother-in-law because I know the kind of community you come from. I was talking to her and asking her just how lonely you must be, because in your community you tend to live a lot as a family unit. You are gregarious, you talk
Bashni: As you said, it wouldn’t work for our family
constantly to each other and live together as a family
because of cultural differences.
and eat together so she must be feeling exceptionally
Mervyn: Another annoying thing is the quad bikes
lonely.
in that park. They abuse the place, make a loud
Mervyn: Not only for her but us as well in the sense we
noise and damage the grass. You can’t believe it: you
don’t know our neighbours. Some of the neighbours
look at the TV but you don’t hear what is on the TV
don’t take the time to greet, yet we greet them. We
because of the guy on the stop street and his music.
don’t even know if we see someone loitering who we
That’s terrible really.
should communicate with.
Judi: And you’re right on the corner and you get it
Judi: Even if we did think there was something odd
on both sides. My mother told me wherever you go
about what we see someone doing, we don’t want
you don’t want a house on the corner. She told me
to get involved. That’s our problem. We don’t get
straight.
involved.
Dave: So did other things come up when you thought
Mervyn: You are creating your own home and you
about coming here, or when you think about leaving
are comfortable living there. There is too much
here? What do you find attractive or what did you
invested now. Even if we win the lotto, we will still
find unattractive about this earlier place?
stay there.
Bettie: It’s central. Plenty of schools.
Clement: When we told our friends that we are going
Sarel: It’s peaceful.
to move here, some said, “Ja, you are moving into
Mervyn: It’s home, in the sense of family, the community and I think security as well.
an old, poor-white area.” Some of them were saying that and I told them, “Look, number one, it’s my money that I’m going to pay. I don’t care what you
Mervyn: What I would like to see is for a lot of the
guys think,” but I tell you three months after moving
neighbours to come together. Have a picnic in the
in some of my friends came and visited and the very
park. Get together and get to know each other. We
same ones that had these comments asked us to look
don’t know each other. We’ve got a lot of older folk.
for houses for them. They wanted to move into this
Anything can go wrong with them or me for that
area. But if you look at it, it’s central. You may hear
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about odd incidents, but it’s not like in the North
have a couple of youngsters to defend us. You need
Rand, Randburg, where you hear about hijackings,
all aspects of a community.
break-ins every day. It’s really a place where your children can grow up and you can get old.
Dave: So can we go around the room and each person give one or two words that describe Sophiatown to you. When you think Sophiatown, what one or two
Bettie: Dis ’n lekker area. Judi: One thing that we talked about when we moved here is that this area is close to the hospital. We needed to be in a central area. We also didn’t want to be too far away from where we came from. So we didn’t mind that we were a street away from Westbury. We lived in the Western area for ages, so we were just a street away. When you talk of crime we’ve got a lot
words do you think of? Clement: I think Sophiatown is based on family values. Elise: I think still a degree of security here. Judi: I see Sophiatown as the future. My future. This is where I’m going to stay.
of petty crime here that might escalate. But I think
Monica: In my opinion, I’m just a few months here,
the first thing that I noticed when I moved here was
well, it’s a nice place.
that there was only one bottle store at the centre. In areas where I lived before there were shebeens on every street and a bottle store next to every church. There were usually more bottle stores than churches. Sophiatown I noticed had a lot of churches and one bottle store. The crime here is all petty crime. It’s got a lot to do with school children. This is not a major
Sarel: When I was working, before becoming a professional loafer, this was really a central area for me. I worked in Randburg. From here it was 20 minutes each way to get to work. It was very central for me and it was cheap. I only paid R1350, which was a lot of money. It was half my salary in those years.
crime area. As you say there are areas where they
Bettie: Vir my is dit huis. Dis veilig. Ek is tuis. Ek is
break into the cars and some people have been shot,
geanker.
but in the areas where I come from, gangsterism was
Bashni: Despite the quad bikes now and then there is
common but there was a rule: you didn’t go out of your territory. You didn’t even mess in your territory
peace and quiet here.
and based on the way people always live, other
Earl: Central, peace and quiet.
people stay out. It depends on how you handle your
Mervyn: Home and security.
territory and if our young children grew up in this area and became proud and took ownership of this area, and we allowed them out in the street, to sit in their own park and become comfortable, it would
Renate: I would say change. We would all get to know each other so there should be a lot of challenges. Judi: That is one thing that people say. I forgot that
become theirs as well. We are never going to get rid
there are not many parties in this area. It really is
of my territory, your territory but at least we would
quiet.
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Clement: At the same time you’ve got to accommodate
Judi: From what I gather the ages of the children fit.
people.
I’ve a nephew of 16, you’ve got 16 and 14, and then
Judi: The unwritten rule in this area is that music
you’ve got 14 and 11. The age groups fit very well.
ends at 12:00.
Bashni: All they do now is just confined to the TV.
Clement: The respect is there.
Bettie: Hulle het al square eyes. Hulle is te bang om
Judi: So, guess what’s going to happen. All the neighbours are going to get to know each other, all the neighbours are going to be invited to the party and then we can party until 5:00 am the next morning because there’s nobody to complain. Mervyn: That’s the nice thing around the festive time; it’s nice if everybody gets together to have a
uit te kom. Judi: We also don’t let them out. Renate: But if we have a fun day… Mervyn: To socialise. That would be nice if the community would get together to socialise. Bashni: I think having a sports day would be fun. We
party in the park.
could have a three-legged race.
Bashni: You don’t even see anyone to wish them
Judi: Egg and spoon.
Happy New Year.
Bashni: Thread and needle.
Judi: I agree. We used to make a point of walking
Judi: You know what will happen on sports day,
out at midnight to greet everyone irrespective of who
right? The adults will have more fun and the kids
you were.
will amuse themselves at us.
Mervyn: We’ve got the facility right here. We need to take the initiative.
Dave:
Would
there
be
interest
in
thinking
Judi: We need to. And a lot of people have the most
about memorialising places in Sophiatown or
beautiful Christmas decorations in this area. Some
commemorating?
of them are stunning.
Judi: Yes I think there would be as we want the
Clement: I think we should have a five-a-side soccer,
children to know, but also as you’ve discovered we
some fun.
know very little of the history ourselves. We know
Mervyn: The kids need to have fun. We had fun as kids.
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