9 minute read
Dating Dialogue, Moderated by Jennifer Mann, LCSW
The Jewish Home | SEPTEMBER 15, 2022 Dating Dialogue
What Would You Do If…
Moderated by Jennifer Mann, LCSW of The Navidaters
Dear Navidaters, Thank you for your incredible column. My husband and I read it every week at the Shabbos table. B”H, my husband and I have four kids who are married and have children of their own. We talk, however, often about the high standards put on our kids from such a young age. The moment our kids started having kids, the questions started coming. “Ma, can you guys help us with buying the ---- stroller?” Mind you, in my day, the McLaren was all the rage, but it was not unreasonably priced. The strollers the young marrieds want today are in the thousands! The shoes they want help with to buy their kids because they are “the IN shoes” are in the hundreds for one pair!
We want to help them but at what point are we giving into the craziness? Then, sometimes we think, since the machatanim are giving tons of money for these expensive extras, if we do not (on principle), do we become the bad guys? We don’t want to cause any shalom bayis issues.
Would love to hear the panel’s take on this matter. Thanks! - Pearl & David
The Rebbetzin
Rebbetzin Faigie Horowitz, M.S.
Dear Pearl and David,
You are bringing up an important topic that confronts parents of married children. It bears discussing.
Standards are not put upon people, especially children. Parents develop standards in a home: standards of menchlichkeit and proper behavior. Material standards come from outside. Developing strong children who can make their own choices is an effort that begins when they are young and in your home. It’s rather late to begin to develop individual judgment and the ability to choose appropriately in your kids.
I read an article last night based on research of highly successful adult entrepreneurs about what consistent message they heard from their parents when they were growing up. At least two were connected with making choices independently.
So what do you do now? I asked some people in your age group from this neighborhood about this question. Why did I do this for the first time? Because people here have confided in me, middle-aged people who have been successful on their own (not those who inherited substantial means). They have said to me that they know that they are spoiling their married children who are not independent and won’t be independent because of community standards.
The first response of several was, it’s too late now.
One couple said that giving a young family a budget of their annual help and then telling them to make their own decisions about where to spend the money doesn’t work. The children come forth with their “hands out” after they spend what their parents give them.
A suggestion that came up was giving the children an amount you are willing to spend on a certain item that you will be gifting them with. If they want to add to it, that’s their choice.
The Shadchan
Michelle Mond
Wow, what a difficult, and poignant question. I thank you for bringing it to the attention of our readership.
This problem spans more than just whether or not the in-laws should help out financially for this sort of thing. I would like to talk for a minute about pressure. You sound like levelheaded, realistic parents who want to help their married kids as much as possible. I doubt you raised them with an attitude that would nurture this spoiled and entitled mentality. And yet, it seems to have still creeped in. Your kids are pressured by society to purchase these luxury baby items, just as you’re feeling pressured by your circle to provide it.
Don’t turn it into a discussion or mussar session; simply don’t sponsor it. If married couples wish to buy these items, they can splurge and get them on their own. It is very important, however, to show them your generosity in other ways, ways that you feel comfortable. This is even more crucial if their love language is gifts.
Hatzlacha with everything!
The Single
Tzipora Grodko
It sounds like you’re struggling to distinguish the standards you want to set for your children. Are your standards catered
towards social pressure or basic financial pressure? Before having a conversation with your children, decide with your husband what you value in respect to your children’s financial/social needs and how you would like to accommodate them.
A healthy relationship is based on a foundation that isn’t simply destroyed by one’s ability (or inability) to provide the financial support requested. If you’re concerned that financial decisions will harm your relationship, then it may be time to evaluate the security of your connection to your kids and how you have been (or can continue) to invest in healthy ways that are not dependent on materialistic factors.
The Zaidy
Dr. Jeffrey Galler
Why can’t readers ask us truly important questions, like:
If brilliant scientists have determined that over 95% of the universe consists of “Dark Matter” and “Dark Energy,” why is it that they have absolutely no idea what Dark Matter and Dark Energy are?
Why did ancient civilizations carve monolithic human statues on the South Pacific’s Easter Island and erect massive stone monuments in England’s Stonehenge, thousands of years ago?
Why haven’t the New York Yankees won a World Series since 2009?
Instead, we get Pearl and David’s mundane questions:
“Why do young parents assume that grandparents are endless sources of cash gifts?” and “How can we teach young adults that spending money wisely is more important than maintaining social status?” Let’s summarize your dilemma. You love giving gifts to your grandchildren and love being an important part of their lives, but you worry that your children will never learn the important value of being financially responsible.
Here’s how you can accomplish multiple goals. You can continue to join the machatanim in helping the kids but also foster moderation. Next time you’re asked, try saying, “Thanks for giving us a chance to help buy a stroller for the baby. We’re going to send you a check for $500. Please use it toward the purchase of any stroller that you choose.”
Pulling It All Together
The Navidaters
Dating and Relationship Coaches and Therapists
And, thank Hashem for blessing you with children and grandchildren who you are able to help financially and who stay in touch with you.
And, remember J. Paul Getty’s wise words: Money isn’t everything, but it sure helps keep the children in touch with you.
Dear Pearl and David, Thank you for writing into the panel. We appreciate you reading it and making us apart of your Shabbos table. What an honor!
In certain communities, it does seem to be the norm for well-to-do and sometimes not well-to-do parents to support their married children. We would need an entire scroll to simply scratch the surface of this issue. I feel I need to respond within the context of the cultural norm, which is to support or contribute significantly to married children. I would also be remiss if I didn’t address how significant a problem this is in our communities.
In larger society, when a person gets married, it is when he/she is financially stable and can support him/herself. Many people have years of school and career under their belts before they take that walk down the aisle. Many have been saving and can afford a downpayment for their marital home. In our communities, young adults are en- couraged to marry young; well before college or graduate school has been finished. And it is acceptable in many communities for the young couple to have no way of supporting themselves. While many times this works out beautifully, many, many other times it does create a lot of unhealthy dynamics between the parent couple and the adult children couple. It can create friction amongst couples themselves, such as the shalom bayis issue you alluded to in your email.
Because Orthodox life has become somewhat of a rich person’s club, many couples just can’t make it without the help of the older generation. We see so many grandparents paying for school. Unless a family is well-off to wealthy, paying for three, four, five (or more) yeshiva tuitions is not possible even for a two-income family.
I don’t know the status of your kids; whether they are generally supporting themselves and looking to you for an infusion to help them keep up appearances and/or with luxury create comforts. Your children seem to be infected with a case of KUWTJ (Keeping Up With the Joneses.). And honestly, we can’t even judge them. Living in a neighborhood where everyone has that expensive shoe and you’re the only one who doesn’t is hard. In certain communities, a person is simply not included for not having the “in” shoe, or taking the “in” vacation, or going to the “in” bungalow colony. I realize what I am saying is ugly, but it’s the truth.
To answer your question, I don’t think you become the bad guy if you say no to the fancy shoe or to the extravagant stroller. It sounds like you are very generous. Many parents can’t give and don’t become the bad guy. It seems like you have the ability to give, but don’t have the same values as your kids/community. (If you can’t give and you are in financial trouble and have been giving toward these luxuries, you need to stop now.) And you don’t have to share this value.
You’re allowed to have boundaries and you’re allowed to say no. You made the money, and it’s fully in your right to decide where you spend it. If you have mature, appreciative children, this conversation will go smoothly. If your kids feel entitled to your money for the luxuries (and that’s not a judgment…it just seems to be a reality in some communities mainly because of cultural norms and expectations), that still won’t make you a bad guy.
I hope I’ve made it clear to the readership that I’m not telling people how to spend their money. If you can and you enjoy it, buy that “in” shoe! Adorable! But when a two-year-old not having the “in” shoe or cool stroller because Bobbi and Zeidy just don’t share the same values has the power to cause shalom bayis issues, we have to take a hard look at the values of that community and potentially at the expectations of the young couple. But you, Pearl and David, are completely off the hook here (in my opinion.) Sincerely, Jennifer
