12 minute read
Dating Dialogue, Moderated by Jennifer Mann, LCSW
Dating Dialogue
What Would You Do If…
Moderated by Jennifer Mann, LCSW of The Navidaters
Dear I’I’m totally not the type to put myself out there, I kind of just do my own thing, and so it took me by surprise when I met a guy in camp
Navidaters, a few summers back. The relationship started from a conversation about a sefer we both love to learn and spiraled into long discussions which included perspectives on hashkafa, kedushat Eretz Yisroel, and living as a growth-oriented Jew. It was a unique relationship, something completely based on a holy foundation. As naive as I am, I didn’t think anything of it. I enjoyed our conversations, but I knew camp was ending and I’d probably never see him again. There was also no chance that a guy like him would go for a girl like me. After all, he’s Israeli. Yes, all our conversations were in broken English, but it didn’t bother me – it was actually kind of cute how he didn’t mind stumbling over his words in order to talk to me. I could tell he had a heart of gold; he came to camp in America to make an impact and that’s exactly what he did.
We kept in touch after camp, he went off to the army (he finished Mechina), and I went off to Stern college. That Sukkot, my family went to Israel, and I met up with him, which turned out to be our first real date. My parents are super chilled. I told them I was going to meet up with him and they were totally OK with it. It was such a great day, we really enjoyed each other’s company but it was also the last time I’d see him because the second I got back to my apartment, my parents shut it down. They said I can’t talk to him anymore, and that this can never work. As upset as I was, I understood where they were coming from and listened. I know they only have my best interests in mind.
Fast forward almost two years later, I’ve got some actual dating experience like my parents wanted but nothing really comes close to that relationship. It was really special, and I can’t help but wonder where it would’ve ended up. I don’t want to hurt my parents and so I would never pursue something that they disapprove of but at some point, I’m going to have to draw the line and make my own decisions... I’m going to continue to date Americans and hope the right one comes along but deep down I fear that I’m just wasting my time. I would love to hear your thoughts.
Thank you so much!
Abby
Disclaimer: This column is not intended to diagnose or otherwise conclude resolutions to any questions. Our intention is not to offer any definitive conclusions to any particular question, rather offer areas of exploration for the author and reader. Due to the nature of the column receiving only a short snapshot of an issue, without the benefit of an actual discussion, the panel’s role is to offer a range of possibilities. We hope to open up meaningful dialogue and individual exploration.
The Panel
The Rebbetzin
Rebbetzin Faigie Horowitz, M.S.
Abby, your insights and actions show maturity. Good intellectual conversation and having a meeting of the spiritual values make for good connection. Yet cultural differences are big when it comes to attitudes, outlook on practical things, and family relationships.
Several years ago, I interviewed several couples who were married for a number of years to people from very different Jewish cultures/countries in preparation for an article I was writing. The seriousness of the differences was not downplayed. Ongoing challenges were there. Some of the couples said they would not advise it. Cultural differences and communication were an ongoing challenge. So were gender roles, attitudes towards money, and short-term and long-term planning patterns.
Nevertheless, many people make it work. It takes courage and maturity to take such a step while knowing that no matter how many things are discussed beforehand, there will be many unforeseen differences and challenges in addition to the usual adjustment to married life. If a dating couple have extensive experience together and have learned each other’s weaknesses, reaction patterns, and habits as well as have navigated challenges together, it makes things much more clear for both parties. Spending time with the other’s family will help each one understand the environment that may have shaped the attitudes and thinking. Determining whether the other person can give the kind of support one needs is another key factor. Clearly, this involves more challenges.
Therefore, you seem to be taking the wise path. Going out with Americans now and keeping an open but educated and realistic mind about the multiple challenges of a transcultural relationship is smart.
The Shadchan
Michelle Mond
Go for it!
You are an adult and have ample dating experience under your belt. Your parents shut it down early on and thought logistically it could never work – they had thought it was just an exotic and convenient fling. I understand things from their perspective, but I also understand yours. It sounds like the type of relationship that you will not be able to let go of unless you see it through.
Imagine: you are reading a riveting novel and someone comes and snatches it out of your hands. This person wants you to read something else. You can try to find another novel that suits your interest but the unfinished plot plays out a million different ways in your mind. No longer can you focus on something new.
I have seen many singles struggle while dating due to an unclosed chapter with someone else dangling in midair. You are an adult and can stand up for what you believe in, which right now is to go out with the Israeli young man. I do not know what the outcome will be, but I know that the closure you will feel when it ends (either way) will help you move forward.
Keep us posted!
The Single
Rivka Weinberg
Abby, if you are old enough to be dating for marriage, then you are old enough to make your own decisions. You know yourself best, and because of that it is important to listen to your gut. You did not explain why your parents believe it would never work, but whatever their reasoning was, you agreed with it at that time. Now, two years later, after having more dating experience, the fact that you are still thinking about it is a large indicator to me. I am curious to learn more about why your parents said no at that time. Was it strictly a geographical difference impacting their decision? If that was the case, is there a plan to make Aliyah in your future?
I am a strong believer in doing what makes you happy and living for yourself. If you have this gut feeling, why should you ignore it and “continue to date Americans and hope the right one comes along”? I would never suggest that someone lives with the feeling of “what if” in a situation where there is a possibility to make moves and get clarity. If you do not know what this guy is up to these days, ask around to try and figure it out. If you do your research and are still inclined to reach out to him, then you should. Keep in mind that Hashem puts us in certain situations at specific times, so there was a reason you met this boy. At that time, it was clearly not meant to be, because even the right boy at the wrong time is the wrong boy. Put yourself out there for your own menuchas hanefesh and
sanity to know you put in proper hishtadlus. At the end of the day, if it does not work out, then you know Hashem did not want it to happen.
This question highlights the importance of being honest with yourself and really listening to your gut. I am a big advocate of asking advice from a rav, parent, or mentor as we go through life and experience difference situations. However, as I mentioned before, we all know ourselves best, so it is important to really be truthful and not allow our egos to get in the way. It would be a shame if a person does not call back the person he once dated because he allowed his ego to cloud his judgement, was fearful of the response, or, even worse, was advised by a third party not to.
Always turn to Hashem for clarity, and remember that at the end of the day it is all from Him.
The Zaidy
Dr. Jeffrey Galler
It’s not healthy to go through life wondering about what could have been. You need to resolve this unsettled issue in order to get on with your life.
Should your old summer friendship be stored away in the dustbin of nostalgic adolescent memories or is the relationship worth pursuing today?
May I suggest this step-by-step approach:
Step #1 – Have a serious discussion with your parents. You might find that you now agree with their reasoning and accept that there is no future to this relationship.
Step #2 – If you don’t agree with your parents, remember that it is very nice to respect and obey one’s parents; however, you will be spending your adult life primarily with your husband and children and not with your parents.
So, the next question would be if either you are prepared to move to Israel, or if the boy is prepared to move to the United States. If the answer could be “yes,” then proceed to the next step.
Step #3 – You will need to investigate, perhaps anonymously through a third party, if the young man is still available. Is he still single? Is he already in a serious relationship?
Step #4 – If the young man is still free, you need to investigate, again perhaps anonymously, if he experienced the same feelings for you that you had for him.
If so, go for it! Get in touch with him either indirectly or directly, and see if this relationship blossoms into commitment. Good luck!Pulling It All Together
The Navidaters Dating and Relationship Coaches and Therapists
Dear Abby,
Thank you for writing into our column! One of the Ten Commandments is to honor thy father and thy mother. We place a tremendous value on respecting and listening to our parents within Orthodoxy. And that is a beautiful thing. I am not a Torah expert or philosopher, but I do wonder if this commandment encompasses adult children being required to listen and obey the decisions parents make for them. At what point are adult children allowed to make their own decisions, in a respectful way, when it comes to their own lives? And furthermore, at what point do parents say to themselves, I wish she would listen to me, but I have to respect that my child is now an adult, free to choose her own path?
Abby, if I were working with your parents and they came into my office and presented this situation, I would try to encourage them to allow you to live your own life, guilt-free, not having to worry about disappointing them. In essence, I would try to help them let go and allow you to make your very own adult decisions. And if I were working with you through this “issue,” I would try to help you explore what it might feel like to make this decision without the approval of your parents.
Our children are not ours. They are neshamas placed in our lives to help us see ourselves and the work we need to do on ourselves. We are given to them to provide food and shelter, emotional support, and, when appropriate, guidance.
Clearly, you are a deeply respectful child to your parents. That is very commendable, and I’m sure many parents are reading this column now with jaws dropped at your obedience. Being that you had/have such a spiritual connection with this Israeli man, I don’t see how you ignore this. I just don’t. None of us have a crystal ball or know what Hashem truly has stored but what if...Hashem was handing you your bashert on a silver platter (or plastic tray, as the case may be at camp) that summer? What if he is dating as well and you hear news of his engagement?
Abby, if you really have strong feelings for this human being after two years have gone by, I don’t see how you cannot pursue this. I do wonder if there is anything other than your parents that is holding you back. That is for you to think about. If there isn’t, I strongly urge you to talk with your parents. Tell them you want to respect their wishes but also have to follow your own path and dreams. Reach out to this man. And see where this goes. You owe this to yourself, and I don’t believe this has anything to do with respecting one’s parents. Your parents may not like this; it may make them uncomfortable. I believe there is a way to honor their feelings about this and respect their concerns, while doing what works for you because we are also taught that it is a great mitzvah to be happy always.
Sincerely, Jennifer
Jennifer Mann, LCSW is a licensed psychotherapist and dating and relationship coach working with individuals, couples, and families in private practice at 123 Maple Avenue in Cedarhurst, NY. She also teaches a psychology course at Touro College. To set up a consultation or to ask questions, please call 718-908-0512. Visit www.thenavidaters.com for more information. If you would like to submit a dating or relationship question to the panel anonymously, please email JenniferMannLCSW@gmail.com. You can follow The Navidaters on FB and Instagram for dating and relationship advice.
