Radio Facts "We Celebrate Diversity"

THE NEW ALBUM

TH E FOLLOW-U P TO THE PLATINUM ALBUM “ TH E GOAT”

AVA I L A B L E E V E R Y W H E R E N O W

Working to Promote Diversity in Broadcasting The National Association of Broadcasters and the NAB Leadership Foundation are striving to build a workforce that reflects the diversity of the communities that local radio and television stations serve.

From our Diversity, Equity and Inclusion Resource Center that provides tools and guidance for stations to shape their own DEI strategies, events that amplify the voices of women and people of color, to state-of-the-art training programs for every career level, we are committed to creating a more diverse, innovative and vibrant industry. Learn more at nab.org/diversity.

EDITORIAL:: EDITORIAL

Yes, We Celebrate Diversity

By Kevin Ross

Welcome to the Inaugural issue of “We Celebrate Diversity,” a new product from the Radio Facts family. Radio Facts is “The voice of the voices.”

We wanted to assemble a new platform to honor the often unsung heroes and sheroes in the industry. This issue will spotlight minority entrepreneurs—people who have taken a dream and a vision and created a spectacular reality in the process.

This impresario rarely receives industry recognition in the form of awards and honors, which is very unfortunate because we honor corporate connections first. I get it, there is a more significant benefit, but it’s the entrepreneurs who are often the ones with the bravado to create change in industries such as our own and to speak up for the voiceless. I have learned there is pride but also a price for advocacy. You are thanked in the dark and often shunned in the light, but somebody has to create the change needed to progress the culture further at the end of the day.

Radio Facts has supported diversity from our affiliations to organizations like The Living Legends to the Black Media Alliance to Brilliant Minds Collective. We are also working with HBCU students who want to be in the industry. If we are not bringing up and bringing in the next generations, what is it all for?

Since the George Floyd situation, we’ve seen some progress as well as lip service. Many Zooms and meetings about what we already know but action will always speak louder than Zooms.

To that end, the never-ending issue of police brutality and racism, in general, is one of grave concern.

Literally, I am also one who thinks that WE, as in Black people, ALSO need to take a closer look at what “diversity” means TOO and how we treat each other. We don’t get to pick, choose and direct what it means sans following the protocol ourselves. WE need to know what the term INCLUSION is, and we also have to take responsibility for our shortcomings. We are not in any way perfect or without fault.

Finally, I am eternally grateful for the support we have gotten over the years. I can honestly say if it were not for Black people, first, in our industry, I would never have survived as a business for 26 years. I constantly hear, “Kev, you are the last man standing for the Black voice in our industry.” That’s not just an honor; it’s also a unfortunate. I have honestly been looking for my replacement for eight years and thank God, I’m getting closer.

Ken Wilson bought the first three ads in 1995 in Radio Fax (at the time), when I was actually ready to give up. And many of you have followed in supporting the brand from all walks of the industry and I’m grateful but the work is not done. I’d like to thank the many corporations that have supported and continue to support Radio Facts over the years.

At the end of the day, we must find equitable ways, within reason, to support each other as well. When I say “within reason,” we must omit the “hook up” concepts and PAY the full price for services that you receive. Landlords don’t give discounts. I want to give a huge thanks to the ad supporters of this magazine for our Inaugural issue.

I am very proud of what we have accomplished, and we have more exciting things to come.

I hope you enjoy this issue of We Celebrate Diversity as much as we enjoyed putting it together.

THE VOICE OF THE VOICES PUBLISHER: RMI Publishing Inc. EDITORIAL MANAGING EDITOR: Kevin Ross

kevin@radiofacts.com

CONTRIBUTORS: Hassahn Liggins, Dwayne McClary, Coka Lani, A. Scott Galloway.

PRODUCTION DESIGN: Design2Pro, Kevin Ross ADVERTISING FOUNDER: Kevin Ross kevin@radiofacts.com ADVERTISING: staff@radiofacts.com Copyright © 2019 RADIOFACTS.COM 11054 Ventura Blvd. #142 Studio City, CA 91604 E-MAIL: staff@radiofacts.com WEBSITE: Digital and Radio Facts www.radiofacts.com

In This Issue ...

Shante Bacon-Cius Shante Bacon-Cius worked on the record side of the industry as a product manager and more but her destiny was to be an entrepreneur. Her mother and grandmother were also entrepreneurs so it was in her destiny. She took what she learned working on the record side and has created one of the most successful marketing companies in entertainment. Her and her partner Saptosa Foster both quit their corporate jobs at the same time and fate brought them together on a phone call that was the start of the One/35 agency.

Sheila Brown Born and raised in Buffalo, New York the former radio account executive left WUFO after a management change and told herself that when she came back, she would be buying the station. That’s exactly what she did several years later.

She mapped out her plan and managed to learn all that she could about business and when the opportunity presented itself she went for it and she is now the only Black FemaleOwned broadcasting owner in the Western New York region.

Baka Boyz The Baka Boyz had little experience on the air but they knew they had a lot to say. The brothers have an incredible chemistry and they put on a great radio show which landed them their first major gig in their early 20s at the behemoth Power 106 in Los Angeles. Since that time, they have worked in other markets and gone syndicated. The Baka Boyz have also produced hip hop records. They are a great example of using your connections to explore other opportunities that allow you to run a business while still working in the industry.

I N A U G U R A L I S S U E O F W E C E L E B R AT E D I V E R S I T Y

Shante Bacon-Cius Owner One/35

By Kevin Ross

When brands, networks, and tech companies are looking to make an impact and authentically engage their target audience they call the CEO of ONE/35 Agency, Shante Bacon-Cius.

Specializing in Digital Strategy & Creative, Strategic Brand Communications & Experiential Marketing, for the past 15 years, Mrs. Bacon-Cius has gained the trust of some of the most reputable blue-chip brands, national organizations, and tech companies across the US. Mrs. Bacon-Cius was branded both “Woman To Watch” and “Influencer” by the industry bible, Advertising Age. Bacon-Cius’ ONE/35 Agency (formerly 135th Street Agency) has been awarded eight “Excellence in Multicultural Marketing Awards” from NAMIC for communications and experiential marketing campaigns for top studios and networks such as Netflix, Fox Broadcasting Company, National Geographic, and more. ONE/35 has represented the Oprah Winfrey Network since 2011, helping the network launch signature programming from film icons Ava Duvernay, Iyanla Vanzant & Tyler Perry.

ONE/35 Agency’s Tech experience includes being tapped as Google’s partner in a multi-year effort to engage AA entrepreneurs, influencers & media and supporting various YouTube Diverse Initiatives including the launch of its HBCU Fest, YTO Series’ Bear Witness, Take Action, and RESIST. Under Bacon-Cius’ leadership, ONE/35 Agency also made its presence felt in the 2018 midterm elections, launching Digital Strategy & Creative campaigns for the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee & the United Food & Commercial Workers Union.

ONE/35 Agency also has led successful CPG brand campaigns including Adidas x Journeys clothing retailer, the Carol’s Daughter brand, Myx Fusions Moscato, and more. These wins have allowed Bacon-Cius and business partner Saptosa Foster to make a larger impact across various industries and grow ONE/35 Agency from a 2-woman operation to a robust national team spread across 15 markets.

With the success of past campaigns and new business wins, with her bold & disruptive approach and her elite list of clientele, Shante BaconCius is quickly becoming the entrepreneur to keep an eye on. PR Week recognized Shante Bacon-Cius’ agency success for their #BETthanksyou multi-market activation.

Bacon-Cius has also been recognized on “best-in-class” lists like Ad Age “Women to Watch”, PR Week’s “40 Under 40”, PR News’ “Top Women In PR”, DMN’s “Marketing Hall Of Femme”, Ebony Power 100, and so much more. Bacon-Cius has been a keynote or featured speaker at several industry collectives including The WIN Summit, Advertising Age Small Agency Conference, The Drum “Agency Acceleration Week”, The Advertising Club’s “Women: NOW 2019” Masterclass, DIVERSE Representation, and many more.

“When we build something big in our community because it gets acquired that does not mean it is selling out that does not mean you are giving up that is how business is done and exits and acquisitions is a good thing because that person is now free to go start something else and build something else to sell.”

We got a chance to talk to Shante Bacon-Cius about the great success of the company.

KEVIN ROSS: How did you come up with the concept of 135th St Agency? What gave you the idea?

SHANTE BACON-CIUS: Even though I am a Jamaican Queens

native, I moved to Harlem in March of 1999 on 135th street.

Growing up, my mom and her brothers—they were born and raised here in Harlem since middle school—told me about Harlem, and it sounded like this magical place while the rest of the world acted like Harlem was this bombed-out, ground zero of the crack era.

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I N A U G U R A L I S S U E O F W E C E L E B R AT E D I V E R S I T Y I asked one of my cousins who lived down there to take me around, and I heard little rumblings about the fact that Harlem was going through this second renaissance, and it was going to get better. We’re talking 1998 or 1999. My cousin was driving up and down the streets and everything was vacant.

Every brownstone apartment building had phone numbers on the front of it, saying, “Call. We have apartments open,” so I wrote down a bunch of numbers and I called, and there was a space on the fifthfloor walk-up. It was burning hot walking up five flights of stairs up to 207 West, 135th Street, but I got that apartment.

The short of it is that I discovered that Harlem was the best place on earth. If you want more context, there are places called boroughs, and then there are neighborhoods. People always compare Harlem and Brooklyn, but they cannot be compared, because Brooklyn is a borough and Harlem is a neighborhood. There was no mecca for Black business in Harlem; that was important to me because I was raised by an entrepreneur.

My grandmother was an entrepreneur. She had a candy shop in Brooklyn. My mom was an entrepreneur. She had a business trade school on Jamaica Avenue when I was growing up, so entrepreneurship was never an option for me; it was always in my destiny.

Harlem had a lot of Black-owned businesses on every block. It changed something about the feel of just walking down the street. For example, we had that big blackout in 2003, remember? July 2003. I was in some kind of media interview—we had in Philly with Noreaga and l was his product manager with Def Jam—and the lights went out in New York.

Half the people who were there decided to stay in Philly, and I decided l was going home. I got a car service, and it took me home. When l got home, the whole street—the highways, everything—was jet Black except for car lights. I got there and there were barbecues on every corner with people pulling the grill out and just standA8 | RADIOFACTS.COM

ing around barbecuing and turning that into a whole bonding event; that is what l like about Harlem. You do not see that in other places so that’s when l discovered Harlem was the best place on earth.

When l started feeling the entrepreneurial bug, l knew l wanted something more than my career at the label. With a friend, Tania Wesley, we wanted to start something, and she was like, “We got to come up with a name,” but l did not know what it would be.

agement of it all and the commitment to excellence. That is a difficult thing to find.

We can walk into a big room full of potential clients, and l can say, “I am going to take the left half. You take the right half.”

When we’re back together at the end of the night, we have fifty cards with notes on them—that let me know it would work in the beginning. And, when you say that the quality of work is important to us, yes it is.

KR: So, Saptosa Foster is your partner now?

As a business, diversity is a big hot topic now ... post George Floyd. The art of diversity and communication is where a lot of people are spending money, but from the very beginning, this is what we have been doing.

SBC: Saptosa Foster is my business partner. She came on in 2005 when it became a full-time thing. l had left my job, and l went to Miami, took a short-term job out there on South Beach, left that, and decided this needed to be my full-time gig.

Not just a side hustle where I take extra projects while I make a living.

Our agency is rooted in advocacy for Black-owned businesses and Blackowned media. We have been doing this and beating the door down on behalf of Black-owned businesses and getting ignored by clients—even clients we love and adore—who were just not ready to have the conversation.

KR: You have an excellent reputation with your business. I hear a lot of great things about it: that you are really on it, that you don’t make a lot of mistakes with your press releases, and that it’s just very professional. Was that something that you aimed for because of how you saw other people doing that, or how did that come about?

KR: Sometimes Black people?

And then, l was like, “135th Street.” That is really where it came from.

SBC: That is such a good question, and I am going to keep it down to less than two hours for an answer. The thing about our reputation is that Saptosa is the reason why it worked immediately; it was kind of like a Yin and Yang where we were complete opposites. I am from a big city and she is from a small city in North Carolina.

Our personalities could not be more different, but the one thing we are so united on is the quality of work for the client.

People believe in us, invest in us and trust us with their brand. We are always thinking, “How is this going to affect the client? What is the client thinking? Is this going to make the client happy?” That part right there—the reputation and the man-

SBC: I am not even going there, but yes.

Sometimes, when you are in the meeting and are like, “How much money are you spending with Black media?” And then, a lot of times, they are like, “We do not want to talk about that. It has to be our media buying people.” I’m like, “You know them.

Go talk to them. Go tell them to talk to this media house.”

In no possible way are you going to dismiss it as church and state—it is not church and state. You can go over there to them and say, “We need to look at this media outlet.

We need to prioritize. We need to take a meeting. We need to hear them out and take twenty minutes to listen to their stuff.

Do not assume you know everything about them when you have talked to them. You don’t know what they are talking about.”

Most people in media buying do not happen to come from African American communities, so you know it is going to be an education process for them. You have to be open to that; that is a drum we have

I N A U G U R A L I S S U E O F W E C E L E B R AT E D I V E R S I T Y been beating since the very beginning.

We know that when you go in to advocate for a Black-owned business and Blackowned media, you have to make sure that your reputation is stellar, but also that there are going to be a whole lot of people out there who have negative things to say— things that they made up because they did not like that your business did better than their friends’ business, or that they do not like the fact that your business is doing better than theirs. These people start creating these little things and planting seeds of doubt, but that is not what I am talking about.

I am talking about people who spent their money with you and were your clients. If they can walk away and say, “No, l did not get the value for my money,” or, “l wasted my money. They treated me disrespectfully,” or “They did not care about making my priorities their priorities.” That is the kind of talk I’m talking about. The other stuff, like all the chatter from people who never worked with you yet still have so much to say, does not matter because that is not even educated speech.

KR: You mentioned all those challenges. People think it is very easy for entrepreneurs for the most part, but they do not see the work. One of the main questions l wanted to ask you is, how do you find the right people because that is also a huge issue for Black business owners. It’s like we are very dedicated to helping Black people, but a lot of the times, it’s not reciprocal.

SBC: That is another whole chapter in a book, but l can tell you about our approach. l will start by saying that we purposefully look for entrepreneurial-minded people because entrepreneurs take ownership over anything with their name on it in a way that someone who is not inclined for entrepreneurship will not. It’s like when you feel ownership over it—like your name is on it no matter who else is involved. You put a piece of your soul into it. Every time I walk the street and see a business that is closed, I see someone’s dreams that were destroyed.

It was painful for me to watch the pandemic and what the immediate results were.

People seeing the spotlight on New York on the news every week, of businesses in my neighborhood that were closing and people who were in tears telling their story. Those are broken hearts and broken dreams. That is how l see businesses that are closed on the street and all of these different retail locations throughout New York City that are closed.

If you do not feel that kind of connection to a brand—your brand or whatever it is that has your name on it and the work—l probably do not want you at One/35 because we need entrepreneurial-minded people.

When people ask me how I would describe it, I say that the 21st Century business model does not care if a business is as big as Ogilvy or as big as any label, any ad agency, any media company … Everyone is hiring freelancers, consultants, whatever word you want to call it because that is the 21st century way, right?

When you do what we do, you certainly want to make sure you have the right personality and work ethic. There is not a one size fits all type of plan, especially in marketing and in PR work, the client, the brands, and the people are going to keep your doors open and your lights on.

Those people are moving in a projectbased world, so they are not making big commitments year-over-year to anybody, and those commitments were never made to African American owned companies, anyway. But in case you are talking about a big agency, they are not getting those yearover-year contracts anymore because the world is moving towards a project-based culture. How we do it is we consider a collective of micro-entrepreneurs—these are all people who understand what it means to invest a piece of your heart and soul into your brand—and we believe in them.

We support them because we are all about Black business. We come together with shared goals, and we tell them straight-up, “You are representing One/35 on this particular project, but if there’s anything that we can do to support you on yours, you let us know. There is a long line of people who have been matriculated—yes, matriculated—through One/35 because our

business is like a university. Not just a marketing and PR university, but like a Blackowned business/university. When we say, “Who do we support? Who do we stand for?” It is not clients; it is Black people. We are here to make sure we are supporting Black-owned businesses, Black-owned media, and Black people who are on the inside of corporate America. Whether they realize it or not, we are here to support them.

KR: That is interesting. How do you vet those types of employees? l would think that if somebody came to you for a job, the last thing they would tell you is, “l want to be an entrepreneur.”

SBC: No. That is not the last thing a lot of people come to the table saying. It is not a secret that we are all about Black business, and we have a healthy respect for them. l cannot even describe it; the way you approach the work is completely different when working with someone who thinks with an entrepreneurial mind-set first.

Now, whether or not the person can overcome some of the residual philosophies that hold us back every day—like, ‘There is only room for one of us to be successful’ or ‘If you are here, you as a Black person are taking away from my shine’ or if you have the ‘I am the only brilliant Negro in the room’ syndrome, l do not know what to do about that.

We celebrate each other. We put our people in front of the client and we want you to have access. We want you to learn how to do this work and have this talk, because l would consider this lifetime and this business a failure if, in fifty years, we are still fighting the same fight.

KR: Or if you are not around.

SBC: That too. Maybe. We might want to do something different. There could be something about multi-generational wealth. Multi-generational wealth does not have to be locked into doing the same thing.

Using one platform to create another is something different, but if you are the only person who benefits, and if everyone beRADIO FACTS | A9

I N A U G U R A L I S S U E O F W E C E L E B R AT E D I V E R S I T Y hind you is still fighting the same fight you had to fight, that is a failure, start to finish, and that is it.

KR: That is a great philosophy, Shante.

I’m thinking while you were speaking, and l realize that, as entrepreneurs, most of the people we connect with are also entrepreneurs. We attract each other. If you find a way to utilize them and bring them to the table, especially the beginners who WANT to learn, that makes sense. l just met somebody yesterday that wants to do marketing for a T-shirt brand — incorporate them into your business and provide an opportunity where they can learn from you and you can learn something from them. That is a great idea. l have had a real challenge finding people, especially in the radio industry. l like to say that radio people are one-trick ponies; they would rather have a mic and headphones and work for a corporation than create a Youtube channel where they could make $1,000 a day. I have tried so hard to convince them but if you try to lead unwilling horses to water, after a while, YOU are the one who ends up dehydrated.

SBC: Absolutely. I have my horror stories.

I have not walked away from these untouched. I have people l trusted who did a lot of damage out there recruiting naysayers about the agency who do not like us or who base their dislike on a revisionist history where somehow they think we did them so wrong. l always gauged this by how many people want to stay in contact or want to let me know when they have kids or when they get a promotion and they say, “Thank you. l could not have done this without you.” If I’m getting that 90% of the time, and 10% of the time there is somebody else out there who l had to let go and they go to recruit enemies against us. l will say that the core of your philosophy has to be supporting Black-owned businesses. It cannot be because it is trendy. George Floyd was tragically murdered on camera for ten minutes. It can’t be because it changed the world, so now that your corporate friends are okay with Black Lives Matter, it is okay.

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It has to be at your core, no matter what we are doing.

Every single piece of it is part of our philosophy because if we do not move with that energy, that is how we got to this point—where every other community supports their entrepreneurs and we do not, so dollars circulate out of the community fastest in the Black community. We want those dollars to circulate within the community— at least as long as it is under our control.

KR: One issue that l hear from many Black entrepreneurs is the sense of entitlement: how they hire people, train them, show them what to do, and then, they do not work out and you have to start the whole process over. How do you move past those situations?

SBC: We struggled with that for a long time. l always said no matter where I am that One/35 would not be where it is today if it was not for the sheer brilliance of my business partner, Saptosa Foster. l have never, and will never, meet anyone with the standard of excellence like this woman. It is a thing of beauty, and because of her standard of excellence with the writing, the communication, the day-to-day client management, and how that has shaped the operations at the agency, it does make it so that some people just do not fit in. If these things are not important to you, One/35 is not a good fit for you.

We care about these things. They seem annoying and kind of tedious, but that is what it is when you want to make sure you have an excellent reputation. Saptosa is brilliant, creative, laser-focused on strategy, and she will execute like no one you have ever met before. Because of that, we have curated a shortlist of people who we have taken under our wing and trained, teaching them the values we carry around in this business. Those people have been empowered to be our Operations Director and PR Director. They now pass on the lessons we taught them, and when l hear them speaking the same language as Saptosa and l used to build this business, l know that we are doing something right.

By the way, they each have their own businesses that are completely different from

what we do. It is my privilege to be able to cultivate the next generation of Black entrepreneurs and Black women entrepreneurs, especially since there are going to be painful moments. The entitlement we struggled with . . . some of that is generational, coming from Gen X. We were always told that if we work hard it is going to come, Millennials and Gen-Zers were never sold that bag of dreams. They were always told, “You are excellent because everything you do is excellent. That is great.”

It is a whole different mentality. It is a double-edged sword because people who want to work with folks who were told they cannot do anything wrong ever is painful.

Sometimes, when people come through the door, you go through the pain of realizing you cannot teach this person because they are not open to the idea that they may have done anything wrong. These people believe it’s everyone else that is wrong. On the flip side, if you can flip that and empower them to think in an entrepreneurial way, you get the good resource of a person who has the confidence to go and think, “l can do no wrong.” That is a good foundation for a great entrepreneur: someone who will come in, revolutionize the business by creating some business vertical you were not thinking of, or by finding a new approach on how to accomplish your goals.

All these Rockstar entrepreneurs we see on Instagram and Youtube are the result of the entitlement. It is like, “I’m my own boss.

Watch me create this thing.” l am amazed by this new generation of Gen-Zers and the entrepreneurs that are budding out of TikTok. I’m amazed that it’s not always even the ones that are doing the videos but also the ones who are supporting them by creating their own infrastructure in the background. I think the entitlement piece is something you have to deal with. I feel what’s more important than entitlement is how your spirit and energy are. If I walk in, and you have the ability to pollute everyone else with negative energy because you are counting every minute that you spend at work like it is a favor, or if you are not about the agency, or you want to complain more than you want to congratulate the person next to you, then you‘ve got to go.

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I N A U G U R A L I S S U E O F W E C E L E B R AT E D I V E R S I T Y l can deal with the entitlement, but beyond that, you‘re gone. I have always been a person who rewards enthusiasm. Especially when somebody is enthusiastic about my baby and my dream of One/35. When people get excited about it and invest in it . . . even to this day, sixteen years later, I’m still grateful and amazed. I do not know the right word to use, but I’m still stunned and proud. When people come to the door, they know what we are about. I’m willing to commit to, and work on, building you and making you better when you invest in me.

KR: l would rather have somebody say that I am not cheap than ‘I can get you a discount with Kevin.’ A lot of Black industry businesses charge just enough to get by; we do not generally look at the big picture, or we do one-offs putting the client before our needs to run a profitable business. What is your philosophy when it comes to setting up your business with more long-term instead of short-term profits?

SBC: That is a really good question. We have experienced everything you have said. This is another tactic that corporate America uses on us to make us devalue ourselves to think that anything Black is automatically discounted or of lesser value. Specifically, when l am dealing with other Black-owned businesses, l never ask for a discount or negotiate my fee down because l don’t feel like their business is a flea market.

KR: When you are setting up those longerterm deals or developing those relationships, can you go in and ask for what you want?

SBC: I think you said a couple of things everybody who is reading this should know. Number one: if you discount something for someone, even if they never refer you to another person, that’s their rate for life. When you later try to build or raise that rate, that is when the nit-picking starts—“Well, there was a mistake here. Well, l was not happy with so and so. l don’t know about this.” That starts because when you set a fee, it’s hell trying to get someone to raise it.

KR: To your point, they will even try to offer you less.

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SBC: This is yet another thing that will become the core of our philosophy and any of my clients. When we get on the phone with them, we are working on a project.

We’re talking about the biggest brands on this planet, global brands there are only a few but in that top 10 there are like two of them possibly three that we deal with every day who would be like we do not have it and l say to them I am not going back to [the micro-influencers/sites] to tell them you do not have it because you do not have it in your budget today ... but you can go back and ask if they can get it for another price.

Whenever l negotiate with an influencer, a blog or a website l always say tell me what your fee is. I am going to take it for what the fee actually is and see what the clients say. If they can not do it because this is how much they have l do not have a penny more that is fine this is not the right opportunity.

We just did that with the Disney Cruella movie but if you come to the table and say it costs $10,000, I am going to go and ask them for that. You never have to worry about that. I am never going to them and saying I can get this for less than $10,000 l will say this costs $10, 000 how badly do you want it? If they say we only have $5,000 then l will give you the option but I am not going to discount your fee on their behalf. It is not a crusade to save them money because they have it. We are not doing anything wrong by asking for our value.

Other communities do that all the time and we have got to break the cycle and that is with every single one of us who is having internal conversations within corporate America or with brands or with clients or whoever has access to resources. You have to break the mentality because they have already been institutionalized to believe Black = discount, Black = 1% of the budget, Black = a 2% spend. No KR: Black = free SBC: Right KR: Because some of us give it to them for free and so we are also dealing with that especially in the entertainment industry.

SBC: I am sorry l just had to speak on this one thing l have never been a subscriber to do it for

free ... ever. I have only done it one time and it did work out but l was coerced into it. Someone who used to work with us came and told us this mainstream agency needed help with this movie coming out that July. l said if they do not have a budget then why are talking? She pleaded and said it would lead to more opportunities and l was hesitant. I finally gave in and met with the people in Atlanta and we did the event and the results came out great because l know the value of my team and this ended up being our lead entry into the film business.

So it can work but you have to make sure it is free one time, not two and not more if you do the work you get the case study, this is what we could do.

If they are not a believer after the first time they will not be a believer. Free can go on forever. Somebody constantly calling for discounts knows your value and does not want to pay for it.

KR: You have a situation where in the past somebody has mistreated you and your business is successful and they come to you or someone comes to you, this is a scenario and in a roundabout way, they come to you for help like 10 years later. What do you do?

SBC: I am not perfect and I am a work in progress and this scenario has happened to me several times as well. People do not even stop to realize that some of the things that come out of their mouths can affect you when you are a Black-owned business. You may be having your little commentary because you had a bad day because l said something you did not like because your friend’s business is better but that has long-term ramifications on a small Black-owned business and so sometimes l find that people who come back and ask for favors or need help with something do not even realize the impact that they had on you.

I find that unless it is somebody, even some people who did mean to try to hurt your business, a few years go by and they experience some challenges in life as well and then they come out a different person. I am personally trying to do better at forgiveness and making sure that l wipe the slate clean because there is only a handful of people l can identify in life who really might have enjoyed making me lose the opportunity by making me lose business

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I N A U G U R A L I S S U E O F W E C E L E B R AT E D I V E R S I T Y or making me lose a promotion back when l cared about those kinds of things in corporate America and now they think it’s all good and it is all good. I find if the pace at which we are living our lives today every 5 - 10 years is like a hundred, they do not remember any of it. They really do not, and so l find that the best way to go about is to grow amnesia really quickly KR: As far as expansion is concerned when you get to a certain point where you are very successful at what point do you think about expansion or do you maintain what you have been doing if you are doing really well with that.

SBC: That is really a great question for these reasons. Sometimes in our communities, because we are so not used to having businesses that grow so big that they can expand or can get acquired, when people do sell their business, we punish them for it. I worked with Lisa Price from Carol’s Daughter when she sold Carol’s Daughter to L’Oréal and we did a goodwill campaign just to remind her loyal Carol’s Daughter customers that this is not selling out but this is leveling up. It is making Carol’s Daughter a global brand. Sometimes we become purists. We want it to remain small and exactly the way we want it. l love this brand, this is mine. People feel very invested in it and you want to keep every single person who is invested in your brand. They invest in it and they love it. It is a part of their lifestyle and culture and they hold it close and every time they feel it is being watered down or selling out or crossing over they are going to lose control over it. It is not going to be the same. It is going to be completely different.

We have to learn when we build and grow something magnificent that when a big corporation invests in it to expand it, that is one big example of African American multi-generation wealth being created. We need to see more of it. I do not blame people when they get mad because we do not see it, we don’t even know what that means.

Some people get left $50 from a relative who worked their whole lives. They are like is this all that they left me? We do not know what it means to have $100 million in a trust fund waiting for somebody who is not even born yet like Paris Hilton. A $100 million trust on the day you are born is for you.

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We do not have that story. We have to learn that when we build something big in our community and we build something big in our community every day we just build it and other communities take it or we give it away. When we build something big in our community because it gets acquired that does not mean it is selling out that does not mean you are giving up. That is how business is done and exits and acquisitions are a good thing because that person is now free to go and start something else and build something else to sell.

KR: Teach somebody else so you don’t die with the business and it doesn’t die with you.

SBC: Teach more people, right. Not only do l believe it but since day one I have always been working to have One/35 primed for a sale or acquisition but not until it gets to the point where we are going to get our maximum value for what we have created. It took Lisa Price 13 years before she even got noticed by corporate America and then that two-year process to become acquired and unfortunately, as African American entrepreneurs, we still bear the burden that if we are not discovered by our celebrities, it stays off the radar. It is not important we should not have to be a Black celebrity to build something as big as you want to but unfortunately if you are not an Alist Black celebrity you are pretty much invisible to the gatekeepers that decide who gets money and who gets acquired and who gets venture capital money and who gets investment and all of that.

We have to figure out how to continue to build each other up in our community and not require that we are a celebrity [or be connected to a celebrity to succeed].

You should want to see the restaurant that is on your corner go nationwide and become a franchise or build out into other cities. You should want to see your favorite Hair Care product, your favorite Skin Care product, your favorite T-shirt, the guy who makes your favorite Flip Flops in the neighborhood … you should want to see him become as big as a mainstream brand because that helps the whole community KR: So, you go to a restaurant in Harlem and it is a Black-owned restaurant and the

service is bad. You see roaches, you do not feel like the waitress or waiter is paying attention to you and has an attitude.

Would you tell the owner or would you just not go there anymore SBC: I have done that several times l have told the owner and there was an African American restaurant that was on 125th street and I loved them.

They were the only ones l saw that got the Oprah look literally. Gail went to the restaurant and ordered the chicken and the potato salad. Saptosa and l went there with our respective boyfriends at the time and it was the worst experience ever. It was 2006. The woman quit at our table. It took 45 minutes for somebody to come out and ask us anything.

She came to our table and her manager said something to her and she took her apron off and laid on top of the table and quit right in front of us.

The restaurant business is hard and if they had not closed down shortly after that l would have continued to go to that place because the quality of the food was amazing and l know how hard it is to find people who are going to invest in your business.

For every Black-owned business around here, l do the rounds, l make sure l support them. Is the service always on point? Absolutely not.

Do l tell the owner? Absolutely. There is one right around the corner from me and l always sidebar her by saying “Look, this right here cannot fly. You just have to know.” And she thanks me for the heads up but that business is hard as well as the nightclub business and l have been dying for a nightclub business my whole life that is something l want to get into in the next five years even if it is a short run it is just something l want to do KR: So when you look at how you started and where you are now what do you think?

SBC: I was originally doing it alone when l decided to do it as a full-time job. I was going to the job in Miami which I knew was coming to an end and l had reached out to Saptosa to write the mission statement and the marketing materials for the press kit. We asked each other what we were doing she had quit her

I N A U G U R A L I S S U E O F W E C E L E B R AT E D I V E R S I T Y job at Vibe and l had just quit my job at Def Jam, that is how we got to together really, I always suggest getting a partner if you start a business l cannot tell you how valuable it will be for you to have someone invested in this struggle.

KR: But the right person SBC: Absolutely, entrepreneurship is the hardest thing you will ever do but it will also be the most rewarding thing you have ever done.

You will have extreme highs extreme lows and every day is completely different KR: You have never lied. But you never “work” you’re just always busy.

SBC: Yes, always busy also in this world we live in where things can change with the drop of a dime. We have weathered the mortgage crisis in 2008 where we had a client call us and say so “We know that we asked you to put our tour on your agenda and you’re holding that $40,000 bill but we do not have it.” All of our advertisers just pulled out but we weathered the storm we have gone through two recessions, one Donald Trump, one pandemic, and now the George Floyd thing . So you have got to be prepared and you have to have the stomach for it because if you do not you’ll never make it. And then having a partner that is on the same page with your commitment to work ethics and standard of excellence, how you are going to treat the client, how you are going to treat the team that is all-important.

And making sure that you have each other’s back. What l usually boil it down to is you do not hear words like ‘sisterhood’ and ‘brotherhood’ brought up in a business conversation but there is no partnership without sisterhood there is no partnership without brotherhood.

Building a business is the same as raising a child. This is your baby you gave birth to, you gave it a name. It gets your heart and your soul and you pour everything that you have into it. You do not sleep at night, it is all those things and you want to make sure you have someone who is going to be a co-parent and do it because they are really believing in what you are doing not because they feel like it is going to give them a platform to become an influencer. That is the whole new hustle you

want somebody who is going to be a partner throughout the whole thing.

So l would say two heads are better than one There is always a sounding panel even if it is the two of you who believe in that dream. l have said go for it and do not hold back.

Saptosa and I did not start off as friends we were colleagues but over the years we grew our sisterhood with very strong bonds and she is like my third sister. My whole family refers to her as “sis” there is no separation there you are, family, that is what you need.

There are a lot of people who say its business not personal but business is entirely personal and anyone who tells you it is business not personal does not know a thing about business KR: What would you suggest that entrepreneurs do with their money because a lot of the time it is about robbing Peter to pay Paul and waiting for checks to come in, dealing with a slow pace. What is your top suggestion for all entrepreneurs when it comes to money SBC: Top suggestion for money, you could be the kind of entrepreneur that makes a whole lot of money quickly and goes and spends it because they believe that they will always be in the evergreen season then you will be closed in less than five years less than three years less than a year and a half, what you should do in the beginning ... every cent that comes into that business you reinvest it. Reinvest it into building your business until you get to the point where you can go get lines of credit.

I cannot overstate these two things: do not spend your money on silly stuff like big name brands and all of that until you have enough of a cushion. There is nothing wrong with Black women spoiling themselves on Louis Vuitton bags, there is nothing wrong with that but as you are building your business that is not the right time. You want to reinvest every single cent back into your business … when you get to the point that you can sleep at night without worrying about your mortgage … that was the marker for me. Making enough money that l was able to automate my mortgage payment as it’s set up to come out and l did not have to look at the account first. Then get yourself a business line of credit.

Getting lines of credit is how white men build big businesses because they leverage debt, they use one debt to get an even bigger debt use the second one to get even bigger debt they are operating constant businesses with a mound of debt because they have shown reliability to pay it back or sometimes, they are just relationship-based and they get it regardless and that is not the plan we are all on right now.

Also, get an American Express card. That American Express card will not only give you points for every dollar you spend, it helps build your credit. American Express remembers every single year that you have been with them and that will help in travel and it will help in VIP and concierge services when you upgrade your cards to a certain level. Make sure you can pay that bill within 30 days if you cannot you will have penalties and interest that lasts a long time. They do not forget an unpaid bill. You can maintain your AMEX even if you are only charging $1,000 a month you are still building a track record Finally, go to your local bank and establish a relationship with your banker that is critical to your business success. You should be seeing your banker as an ally. You need to talk to them and sell them your dream and go in like you are pitching.

KR: Especially a credit union SBC: Go in like you are pitching for Shark Tank paint a picture tell them why your business is magical. I am still in contact with the first guy who gave us our first business line of credit in 2006, he is the reason why we have upgraded our lines of credit two or three more times and not only that we get the line of credit even when we are not using it.

KR: And l want to wrap up by adding what l do to help me sleep better at night something l learned from 2008 because I did get caught up in the real estate thing put away 20% of everything you make no matter what in a high yield savings account or a solid stock. After knowing you for several years it is great to finally have this conversation with you.

SBC: Absolutely, Kevin. Sorry, it took so long.

KR: No problem!

RADIO FACTS | A15

I N A U G U R A L I S S U E O F W E C E L E B R AT E D I V E R S I T Y

SHEILA BROWN

CEO OF VISION MULTI-MEDIA OWNER OF WUFO AND POWER 96.5

Sheila Brown is a winner and easy to like. Her positive energy is uplifting and she has taken her dream of owning WUFO and turned it into a reality. Brown was once a leading salesperson for the station many years ago and said she decided to own it back then and it took her 29 years. She wasn’t sure how she would do it but she did it and she is now the only Black woman-owned radio station in Western New York; while this is great news, it’s also very, unfortunate that there are not more Black owners, considering the Black population in Buffalo and the Western New York region. Here we get an update of what’s been happening since Sheila took over the station a few years ago.

“As we’re talking about diversity—which WUFO is all about this year—we’re celebrating six years in the industry. We’re very proud of that. We’re celebrating everything Black.”

Photo Credit Will Jones KEVIN ROSS: Congratulations. How many years has this been now that you’ve been an owner?

SHEILA BROWN: Since 2013.

KR: All right. Give me something that you’ve learned—the hard way—that you didn’t know before.

SB: Learning everything about the business, from the front to the back, so when someone A16 | RADIOFACTS.COM

leaves the company, I know exactly how to do whatever they were doing.

KR: Has that been taxing on you?

SB: In the beginning, yes. I think I delegated certain things to certain departments and let them be in control of that department, you know? But I think, sometimes, when you give people titles— like managers or directors—you learn to just put “coordinator” behind their name,

you know, and you learn everything about that department so that if they leave, it doesn’t put a hold on your progress.

KR: And there’s nothing worse, as an entrepreneur, than training someone who doesn’t work out. Your time is everything.

SB: That’s right.

I N A U G U R A L I S S U E O F W E C E L E B R AT E D I V E R S I T Y KR: I can speak from experience. Perhaps it’s just us but you never get that feeling of comfort and trust. I can’t figure out how white entrepreneurs do it, because every Black entrepreneur I know complains about that. Do you ever have a day where you could just take off and know that everything will be done the way it should be done?

SB: Yes, that’s right. And you know, the thing about it is, when they start, they’re so gung-ho. They’re ready to be on the radio.

They love it. And they’re like, “Oh, I’m never leaving. This is where I’m going to end my career.”

And then, after a year or two, they get comfortable and something else comes up. And COVID just really—you know, a few of the key people that I thought would really ride or die till the end? They allowed that unemployment and COVID money get in the way and they were like, “Nah, you know, we’re not going to come back now.”

I’m like, “Well, if you don’t come back in July . . .” And that was last year. This position is gone. So yeah, that’s what happened.

KR: That’s been sort of the theme of the whole country. People don’t want to go back to work because they’re doing so well on unemployment. It’s going to be a very interesting situation to resolve at the end of the day.

So, the last time I was in Buffalo was a couple of years ago and you were very excited about remodeling the building that you’re currently in. You were telling me how it was part of historical Buffalo?

What was it? The jazz corridor?

SB: Yes, The Colored Musician’s Club is next door, but it’s the Michigan Avenue Corridor.

KR: I just read recently that you are going to be moving. Tell us about that.

A18 | RADIOFACTS.COM

SB: Kevin, it was so interesting. The city did an RFP proposal to this historical district and millions of dollars came rolling down into that community because they’re restoring areas that were abandoned 20, 30, 40 years ago.

Their values dropped and now they’re coming back up, so it’s no different than the corridor. At first, I wasn’t going to write the RFP, but then everybody was like, “Yeah, write it, write it!”

So, I did, and we ended up winning. Now, we’re going to get a building built from the ground up. The 509 building there now is a historical building. That is where the underground slaves hid when Harriet Tubman was going back and forth. Right next door to Michigan Avenue, Baptist Church. A lot of people wanted that building for several different things and you know, God saw fit for us to have it. So now a building—a twin building—is going to come up. It’s gonna look just like that, with another building on top of it. We’re going to have two elevators on both sides. It’s going to be a state-of-theart radio station that we can customize.

KR: Out of curiosity, they’re going to keep the original building? Or are they going to redo it?

SB: They’ve got to redo it. It’s been sitting there for years, but it’s a historical building, so they can’t tear it down. They’re just going to replace it, clean it out, and then our DJs will be in the windows on the lower levels and a newsroom will be on top. It’s going to be fabulous and our museum will still be there.

KR: Have you been through there already?

SB: No, you can’t even go in. It needs floors. It needs everything.

KR: I would be curious to go into the basement to see if there’s anything from the former slaves down there.

SB: Of course, I’ll see once we can get in there—before they start tearing and throwing stuff out—because the stuff that would mean something to us won’t mean anything to them.

KR: Right.

SB: We’re going to get in there before they do, and the basement is where our production team is going to be. All that’s going to be in the basement.

KR: I know for the longest time, even before I left Buffalo for good in 83, they were having issues with construction contracts which were repeatedly going to white companies for decades in Buffalo.

Did they ever resolve that issue?

SB: Yeah. It’s been pretty good now, because if you have your minority status— it’s mandated that 33% of the bids have to come to people of color. That’s been good across the country.

KR: How’s the FM working out?

SB: Simply fabulous for us. We just received the status where we’re a 24-hour reporting station on FM now. At first, they couldn’t detect our station and my music was only being detected on the AM but two, or three weeks ago, we got 24-hour detecting status.

KR: Is your competitor WBLK still using the moniker “Power?”

SB: Yeah they are and we’re still Power 96.5.

KR: Must be confusing for the listeners?

SB: Of course it is. We turned on as Power, and the next day, all of a sudden they were Power. They were the same thing for years until they saw that the competition was coming in. But our format and theirs are different.

KR: Okay. You’re doing more gospel on the AM side, right?

I N A U G U R A L I S S U E O F W E C E L E B R AT E D I V E R S I T Y SB: Yeah. Well, AM and FM are simulcast.

KR: Oh, I didn’t know that.

SB: Yeah. So, what you hear on AM is the same thing as what you hear on FM. One day, we’re hoping that the FCC will allow us to separate the two, but right now it’s simulcast.

KR: If they allow you to separate the two, what would you do with the AM? SB: I would do all gospel and talk on AM. KR: How has the community been responding? I know that when I was there before, you were trying to get it together. Have you settled at this point, or are you still trying to get your footing?

SB: No, we’re way settled. WUFO has always been the urban community station.

We have always been the only Blackowned and operated station in Western New York’s southern anterior, eight counties of Buffalo. So, yes we’re settled in.

I mean, we have an amazing national — rep. He’s doing an amazing job. So we are settled in. Sadly enough, George Floyd changed the fabric of how people do business. Since COVID, we have gotten more corporate business than ever before.

KR: I was going to ask you. Have you seen the response? We were of the thinking that a lot of corporations are simply providing lip service, that they’re not putting their best foot forward. It’s good to know that you’re getting the response that you need.

SB: I don’t think it is because you have at least three generations of people left still listening to the radio. Digital is not going to be their first choice of music. In this age group that you have now, digital is their first choice, but you still have the Baby Boomers, the generation before the Baby Boomers, and the generation after; they’re still listening to radio. So, radio is not dead.

Radio is so alive. It’s so attractive now with our format being talk radio gospel and R&B. It’s just been amazing. We are the only station where you can call into the request line and express yourself on whatever topic is going on right now. That’s what gives us the edge that no one else has. So Radio is so alive and well, and it’s everywhere now. It’s on your phone. It’s on your Smart TVs. It’s everywhere.

KR: Tell me about your format during the day. You had Tom Joyner, but now you have...?

SB: Absolutely.

SB: We have DeDe McGuire in the morning.

KR: What do you think when people say they think that radio is a dying industry?

KR: That’s right. You just brought in DeDe.

SB: Yes we had Chubb Rock there. Now I have DeDe in the morning. Then I do gospel talk shows from 10:00 AM until 12 noon. Then at noon, I go to Sasha the Diva from Atlanta as my midday host. She does her show like she’s sitting right in the WUFO studios. She does an amazing job. Then we go to Chubb Rock from 3-7 and then we go back to our local Jocks.

KR: After seven, what do you do? Like Quiet Storm type music . . . ?

SB: Yeah. From seven to 10, we have your up-tempo R&B. We do a lot of mix shows, and then 10 o’clock is Quiet Storm [music].

KR: Then you have overnights.

SB: For our third shift, we have Donnie McClurkin come in from 4 AM to 6. We have Money-Making Conversations that comes in on Friday and Saturday. And then we have Jekayln Carr that comes in on Friday and Saturday. Other than that, we’re all music.

KR: So, you’re predominantly syndication station.

a

SB: Well, in certain areas we are.

KR: And Ray’s not there anymore?

RADIO FACTS | A19

I N A U G U R A L I S S U E O F W E C E L E B R AT E D I V E R S I T Y SB: Ray Daniels?

KR: Yeah.

SB: Yes, Ray is only on Saturdays now.

KR: Gotcha.

SB: He’s in Atlanta, but we do a lot back and forth with Ray. We have a big Black music conference coming up, and Ray is tying in with us on that.

KR: You had a couple of heritage announcers there. I forgot the one guy’s name . . .

SHEILA: Lee Pedigree?

KR: Yes. Is Lee still there?

SB: Yes, Lee’s still here. Dwayne Comberlander is still here. They are a great part of our history. They’re pretty stable.

KR: What big events do you have coming up?

SB: We have our Black music month conference on June 25th, 26th, and 27th.

It’s a three-day event and we have over twelve different national recording artists coming into town. We have a workshop showing people how to break into the industry, how to get signed, how to get your royalties, how to get your song played on the radio. We have a red carpet award show, where we’re going to do a Rick James award, and that Friday, June 25th is the day Michael Jackson passed.

KR: Right?

SB: We’re going to do a Michael Jackson award. Saturday is the Rick James award, and Sunday is the Aretha Franklin “Respect” award. We have a brunch coming up on that Sunday morning, too.

It’s like a full weekend with probably twelve different things going on. We have three stages where Ray Daniels will be hosting two events with unsigned artists.

A20 | RADIOFACTS.COM

[Editor’s Note: Aretha Franklin and her family lived in Buffalo and had a church before moving to Detroit. Her mother left Detroit and moved back to Buffalo where she died at a young age. Aretha and her siblings often came to Buffalo as children to visit her mother and family.]

KR: Is that movie still being done about Rick James there?

SB: Yes, it is. It’s now based in California.

KR: They moved it?

SB: The filmmaker based here, Addison Henderson, was doing it, and I believe he is still involved in it but it seems like a team out of California picked it up with him.

KR: You said that you’re seeing the results from corporate sponsors. Was that with an extra push or did they come to you?

SB: Our national rep did that, but locally we’re getting so much more attention with the medical hospitals. As I said, COVID has been a curse to some and a blessing to others, and for us as a Black radio station, it has been wonderful. We’re getting so much medical advertising. Then, we got the tobacco-free coalition to show people how to stop smoking. The last three months have been simply amazing for us and our national rep.

KR: Have you got a really good sales team in place? I know that’s your background in sales as well.

SB: That’s my background. And you know what, I’m still on the streets as if I just started in Buffalo. Every day I leave, and I say, “This is my first day at the station and the first day being the owner.” What matters to me is getting advertising dollars in, meeting my bottom line, being able to pay all my employees, and pay all the bills that we have at the station. So, I stay forever on the street and forever on the phone. Once, I slipped on that a little bit— about a year and a half ago—and I saw a difference in my business.

KR: Why do Black entrepreneurs have to do everything? I know we’ve touched on this before, but do you have that fear, too, of leaving and taking a vacation?

SB: Well, I’m gonna say I don’t anymore.

Kevin, last year—well, first one of my twin boys graduated last Sunday [from Morehouse College].

KR: Congratulations.

SB: Thank you. And one had a serious car accident. I’m talking about brain surgery twice. I had to be back and forth to Atlanta, and that showed me when I left that my team was able to hold down my business. So, now since March of last year, every month, I’m in Atlanta. I leave and I come back to everything being on point. Everybody knows their job description, and I make their responsibilities very plain when I hire them. When I put them in a position, I say, “Do your job description.

Don’t try to do anyone else’s. Stay in your lane and if you do that, the pieces of the puzzle will fit.” I have this amazing young lady named Raven, who started as an intern. Now I can trust Raven to go to the bank, make deposits and do everything at that front desk, and she’s not going to let anyone pass. So I’ve got an amazing team that I can leave and feel comfortable with. So I’m always out of the office now.

KR: You are only as good as your team?

SB: Yes. KR: How long did it take for you to get to that point?

SB: Last year, with my son’s surgery, was when it was forced, but maybe it was always there and I just didn’t know it.

KR: There’s always something good in something bad, so the fact that you had to go to Atlanta kind of forced you as you said. And then you thought, “Well, maybe I can take a break from it,” because that is the most frightening thing for any Black entrepreneur—to leave your business in somebody else’s hands. Because your business is your kid, too. That’s your baby, too.

I N A U G U R A L I S S U E O F W E C E L E B R AT E D I V E R S I T Y SB: It’s my baby. Yeah.

KR: I understand. What are your challenges today?

SB: Today‘s challenges are to keep that sales force in place. You know, engineers are also hard to find. I have one amazing engineer, but he does like four or five other stations. So, I’m his bottom station here.

KR: Right?

SB: I need that engineer, along with Brian, he needs to be my chief engineer. I would love to have an engineer that’s in-house all the time. Maybe a part-time engineer where they’re there from 9 to 12, so if a microphone is out or if a battery is out . . . whatever it is at the tower site, that engineer can do it before my chief engineer can get to it.

KR: Any expansion plans?

SB: Yeah. I would love to get a radio station in Atlanta.

KR: I knew you were going to say that.

What about the competition there, it’s no joke on the Black radio side?

SB: Yes, there is heavy competition in Atlanta, but if you bring what I already have here in Buffalo, that’s not in Atlanta yet. I have a specialty brand that no one else has. We have perfected that since 1961. All I’m doing is embracing what was already there when I started in 1986, and I just put my twist on it. What I do is not being done in Atlanta. I’m there once a month and I listen to every station there.

KR: When did you first go to Atlanta?

SB: June 9th of 2020.

KR: That was your very first time?

SB: Oh no. My sister moved to Atlanta in 1979, and I’ve been going [there] since 1979. But now I’m going every month and we have a house in Atlanta.

KR: Okay. There was a huge migration around that time. I know I left Buffalo in ’83 and never came back. I moved to Atlanta, and when I got there and realized that it was very different from Buffalo I had no desire to ever return.

But Buffalo has come a LONG way since the early 80s. I am often surprised when I visit family there during my trips to New York.

SB: Very different.

KR: Back then, Buffalo was having a severe Black financial crisis, but Atlanta was booming. When I got there, there was nobody there from other cities, so it was very different than it is right now.

Atlanta was/is a great place.

SB: Atlanta is a great place, and it’s moving. Since last year, I have seen all that it has done. Every time I go back, there’s something different. I got an office there on Peachtree now. We’re moving and grooving.

KR: You are really making plans.

SB: Oh, yeah. I did about three networking events there, you know; there are a lot of Buffalo people in Atlanta. So when I go, I can hook up with people that grew up here.

It makes sense.

KR: In the near future, if you got an offer to sell WUFO, what would you do?

SB: I mean, the price would have to be right. I would never say that I wouldn’t sell it, but I put a lot of sweat and tears and bullets into it, and the goal was that it would be a legacy for my family. That it would change the fabric of how my family lives.

The Bible says you should leave a heritage for your children’s children’s children, so I need to be able to go seven generations down. No one else in my family has had a chance to ever do that. I always pray to the Lord to allow me to be able to do that. But if the price was right, me and my husband would sell with no problem. Then, I would go somewhere else and build.

KR: Are your sons showing interest?

SB: None of my kids have shown interest.

KR: That has got to be a bit scary.

SB: Yeah it is. My daughter has her career.

My boys are starting their careers. No one has shown any interest yet.

KR: At the end of the day, a lot of Black folks have that dry cleaner’s concept of doing business. We create it and we die with it, but you know you can always sell it and buy something else or do something else. That is the benefit of being an entrepreneur. Like, I’ve been doing this for 26 years and I don’t think that this is something I could sell, so I started building other businesses that I could sell. But it depends on what kind of business you have.

Radio’s a bit different. I don’t think you should keep it for the rest of your life, ‘cause you’re going to have your ups and downs. You’re going to get tired of it. You’re not going to feel like doing it, and then you’ll get high again, and you’ll get low again. So, I think you’re on the right path if something comes along; you want to keep yourself open for that.

SB: Are you interested? I got a price for you.

KR: In buying a station? (laughing) No, no, I was asking because it is probably going to happen. Especially in that market. We talked about this when I was there before—how people are going back because you can work from anywhere now and you want to be with your family as they get older. So, everybody tells me that they’re building like crazy there.

SB: Oh, they are. It’s a good time to be in Buffalo. Buffalo is definitely on the rise. They have received a lot of grant money from upstate. So, from the corridor that I’m in and then on Broadway, it’s another section of the city of Buffalo. They are building up over there, too. It’s like a three-year plan that they have to spend this money and build.

RADIO FACTS | A21

I N A U G U R A L I S S U E O F W E C E L E B R AT E D I V E R S I T Y KR: What are your hopes as far as the industry is concerned when it comes to diversity, inclusion and equity? Do you think that this situation is going to last a long time, where you’re getting the extra boost in income, or is it something that we will have to constantly talk about, discuss and push?

SB: I think for the next three to five years, we are going to be kind of safe. We just got a buy from Toyota, General Motors, and McDonald’s has committed to spending [towards] not just urban music, but Black-owned radio stations for the next five years.

I think if we get a few more that’ll be great, then we can see what the differences are. At the end of the day, many corporations know Black people are the biggest consumers. So, I don’t know why they’re so scared of spending their advertising dollars on us.

KR: So, year over year, you’re seeing an improvement.

SB: Yes. Hands down.

KR: You seem a lot more relaxed than you were the last time I was there.

SB: I am. Very much so.

KR: A lot more at peace. Sheila, I’m not gonna hold you much longer, but as I said, I just kind of wanted to get a perspective of what was going on with you as an owner and to see your growth over the years.

I’m very proud of you. I know that when you started out it had to be a bit nerve-wracking. That legacy behind you and trying to keep it going? Especially with an AM station and not knowing where you’re going to end up. I think that things will work out well for you. Is there anything you wanted to add or talk about?

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SB: As we’re talking about diversity— [which] WUFO is all about this year— we’re celebrating six years in the industry. We’re very proud of that.

We’re celebrating everything Black: Black radio, Black music, Black hair, Black politicians, Black TV, Black clothes, Black culture, Black men, Black women, Black everything. That’s who we’re celebrating this year. Black children. Black schools. It’s all about us celebrating who we are as a people because everyone else is copying us anyway.

KR: (lol) As always.

SB: You know what I mean? So, now we’re celebrating every month. We’re celebrating with dark colors.

KR: The last time I was there, you told me that you had an archive of pictures and other things in your basement. What are you planning on doing at this point now that you’re going to move?

SB: Yeah, check out WUFO Black Radio History Collectives on Facebook. You can pull up that website, “WUFO Black Radio History Collectives,” and you can see what we’ve done. We started from the sixties to the current day, and each stop has its information on DJs, on any social justice that we reported on in that era, and on any equipment that we used in that era. And it shows how equipment has evolved to where it is today.

KR: That’s a good thing they saved all that stuff.

SB: When I brought the company and we moved from Lasalle Ave. to where we are now, people were like, “Why are you bringing all this junk?” But they didn’t realize that I had a plan to build the museum. I made sure that I packed it all up in boxes. Equipment in one box.

Agenda letters from general managers etc. I have an amazing history at the company and on the station.

KR: Any Frankie Crocker stuff?

SB: Oh, yeah! I have drops from Frankie. We have weather drops that he did. He has a nephew that lives here in Buffalo, and his name is Franklin Crockett and he gave us a sweater of Frankie’s [and] a pair of pants. [So], we got some stuff.

KR: I thought Frankie was an only child. That’s interesting.

SB: I don’t know if it’s a cousin, but he said, Frankie’s his uncle. And he was able to call up to New York City. He got on the phone with someone who had all of Frankie‘s stuff in storage.

KR: I heard about that guy in New York. He went to Frankie’s mother in Florida and got all the Frankie stuff.

I was trying to get it at the same time. I know Frankie had a son and supposedly the son came to the funeral and surprised everybody. I got some history on Frankie that I’ll be talking about soon, but he had a really interesting life.

SB: That’s good. This guy—I would love to give you his information, but I don’t have it on me—he’s doing a Netflix movie with a guy in New York City on Frankie. He called to get some information on Frankie; they’re talking about him, Diana Ross, and some of the other people that Frankie was with.

So Franklin can tell you his relationship with Frankie. He‘s got stories of him when he was little and all kinds of stuff.

I didn’t realize how big he was. I should have paid more attention to him.

KR: He wasn’t a star in Buffalo.

He wasn’t big until he went to PA and New York. But yeah, I got an interesting piece coming up on Frankie. As always, I appreciate it, Sheila. I’ll keep you posted and make sure you get a magazine.

SB: I appreciate it, and thanks so much for everything. Next time you’re in town, you got to stop by and see what we did with the collectives.

Sony Music Publishing Honors Black Music Month

WE PROUDLY CELEBRATE BLACK SONGWRITERS AS THEY CONTINUE TO WRITE MUSIC HISTORY.

I N A U G U R A L I S S U E O F W E C E L E B R AT E D I V E R S I T Y

THE BAKA BOYZ

BY HASSAHN LIGGINS

The dynamic duo who radio and the music industry have come to be know as The World-Famous Baka Boyz are the real-life brothers from Bakersfield, CA. Nick and Eric Vidal have more than twenty years in the game.

They used their Yin and Yang chemistry to create a bond that resonated with listeners in the various markets they have worked in and they have dominated the airwaves in the process.

Eric and Nick want to continue innovating, creating unmatched content, cultivating new talent, breaking records, and elevating the culture. From their humble beginnings to their big break at Power 106 in LA, mastering the art of the Miami airwaves and beyond, to returning to LA, where they are currently killing the weekends at KDAY, the Baka Boyz are more than just legends—they are considered radio royalty. We had a chance to catch up with them to talk about everything from their syndicated radio show to them being music producers and the potential return to hosting mornings.

Hassahn: I know you guys are DJs first, then hosts but how do you feel about the state of radio from your start in the industry?

Eric: Personally, for me, I think there’s a lack of talent out there. There are not a lot of great personalities. Nobody is pushing the envelope, pushing the needle, bringing up new bits. Nothing is A24 | RADIOFACTS.COM

new under the sun, but there’s always a way to flip anything.

You can always make it new, like, for instance, the roll call. When we brought the roll call to LA, it was originally in St. Louis. Somebody else did it and we just made it better than what he did. We made it more prominent. We gave it mass appeal because obviously, we were on Power

106, one of the biggest stations in LA, and when we came with that, that shit reset everything. It reset the whole market—we were beating the night show that was killing everybody with Love Line and Poor Man. I just feel like nobody is pushing that envelope and being creative, thinking outside of the box, but that’s something we’ve always done. We’ve never followed

I N A U G U R A L I S S U E O F W E C E L E B R AT E D I V E R S I T Y anybody else. We’ve always blazed our own trail and thought of different ways to do things. Like live mixing back in the day, there was no live mixing on LA radio when we first got that gig. It was all prerecorded. Every other DJ that played on Power pre-recorded their mix to a reel, but we were doing it live. That real raw edge gave us an advantage.

Nick: To answer your question from my side, I’ll say radio has changed over the last twenty years. It’s become more homogenized and more streamlined, and there hasn’t been creative advancement since Poor Man, since the Baka Boyz, since Mancow [Muller]. Think about the great legendary radio DJs: the Dick Clarks, The Wolfman Jacks. Everybody I named had their own style, sound, vibe, and energy. Nobody stepped on anybody’s toes because everybody was original; that started going away a little over twenty years ago. They stopped hiring new talent, then stopped teaching talent how to do radio and how to be great at radio.

Eric: Yeah, no talent pool.

Hassahn: Something you said kind of resonated with me. You said that nobody’s original or creative, and since you guys are hip-hop aficionados too, do you also feel the same way about mainstream hip hop? Like, back in the 90s—which everybody calls the golden era, right?—you had like Busta, A Tribe Called Quest, Diddy, Wu-Tang, and all of them are from New York, but all of them were different.

But now, I feel like New York dudes sound like dudes from Atlanta, Atlanta dudes sound like—does that make sense, what I’m saying? I know there are a lot of original artists out there, but as far as mainstream, do you feel like artists are kind of mimicking radio with the lack of creativity?

Eric: I’ll let Nick take this one.

Nick: I think radio music, the record industry, and the artistry are all alike.

It’s kind of like, follow the guy with the hottest record, all right? You brought up a few names, so I’ll talk about producers

because things changed around 2000/2001. Let’s say The Neptunes have a big record with Usher, or that Lil John has a big record with Usher, so all the A&Rs, all of the rappers, and all the other extras around the world will want that same, big record that is hitting right now.

So, they’ll all run to Lil John—whoever is the hottest guy at the time with the biggest records. All the A&Rs [artists and repitoire] were lazy as fuck (back then), and they say, “Hey, I’ll grab that record that sounds like that record.” What you have is a follow the leader thing, and it never ends.

You go in phases, you know: Neptunes had their phase, Timberland had his phase, Lil John had his phase. It eventually runs out, but then here comes Travis Scott using the voice box—which has been overused over the years and started with T-Pain—and then you have the anti-voice box stuff ...

Eric: Auto-Tune, Nick.

Nick: Auto-tune. Yeah, that’s what I mean. That’s why I felt like there’s been lazy A&Rs. Eric: To Nick’s point, there’s no artist development. As he said, they’re lazy.

They want to go on TikTok or YouTube.

If you have a dance and a video with it, or there’s a challenge attached to it, then they’re like, “Oh, this is gonna be the hottest record,” you know what I mean?

So that’s kind of what they do now.

Hassahn: Is it more challenging to be creative when preparing for a syndicated show versus a local show?

Nick: It’s difficult for both. We’ve been doing weekend programming for twenty years now and we’ve created our lane.

We stayed in that lane, which was musicdriven, PPM-friendly programming.

So, now that we’re back, we have to consider who our audience is and how we are going to engage them. It’s difficult because we‘ve got to be thoughtful on so many different platforms and in so many ways.

Eric: We’ll have different things that we could talk about—there was a time when

we were talking about voices in general.

There was research done that people with deeper voices are more outgoing and more into casual sex.

Nick: Sexually-driven.

Eric: We started getting people calling in, like, “Yeah, I have a deep voice. I’m into casual sex.” We have to find those topics that could resonate without having a region or boundary that people become involved in that can massively touch everybody.

As far as the content is, as long as you can get people involved, the rest follows.

Good content is good content, good radio is good radio, great radio is great radio, and I feel like that’s what’s missing from radio in general. People still remember everything we did, which is a testament to who we are and what we bring to the table.

For people to remember you after that many years—that’s like placing a great song that puts you back in that moment at that time—that’s nostalgia, and there’s nothing more powerful than nostalgia to me.

Hassahn: I agree entirely. I remember you being on air, and I get to LA all the time, so I hear what you guys do.

You guys have been very instrumental in the careers of Big Boy, DJ E-Man, etc., and several others in the radio industry. When you guys were first coming in, who groomed you? Who influenced you? Who made you say, “You know what? I can do this.”

Eric: Nobody. We wanted to emulate KDAY, so we would listen to the highenergy shows, and the Mix Master show, Greg Mack, all that stuff, and we would want to do what they were doing. In our city, Tony G and Julio G were the ones who influenced us, but they weren’t personalities on the air. They were personalities with their hands.

What they did influenced us so much.

We would listen on our rooftop with a big ass Fisher-Price stereo, with an antenna connected to it, to listen at two or three in the morning in Bakersfield; we could RADIO FACTS | A25

I N A U G U R A L I S S U E O F W E C E L E B R AT E D I V E R S I T Y get the station because it was from LA on AM, but AM would travel at night. So we would listen and record to emulate what they did, how they scratched, what records they played. We would then take that tape to LA record stores a couple of weeks later and say, “We need this record,” So, they molded us.

And on the DJ side . . . the personality came from us having to just cut our teeth.

We wanted to do a mix show, and our dad knew the owner of a radio station in Bakersfield, KLYD, owned by the late Alex Klein, And so our dad told Alex, “Hey, my sons want to do a show on your station.” And Alex said, “Sure. No problem. That’s $75 a week.”

So, we had to pay to be on the radio.

We had to pay to go up in there, and this station was Classic Rock during the week. They were playing Led Zeppelin, AC/DC, Queen, Foreigner, all kinds of stuff like that, and then on Friday and Saturday nights; you got two little kids who’ve never done radio, who never knew what to say. I think our favorite word was “Urr” back then. Back then, Nick was doing most of the talking because I wouldn’t talk, but now I won’t shut up.

Nick: It elevated the DJ culture and showed the rest of the DJs what was possible, and it made everybody step their game up and sharpen their tools.

But, there’s a lot of people who did not take advantage of the pandemic. Eric V was one of them. My brother, who took full advantage of my Twitch channel—which we started like in 2018—built it up to like 5,000 followers over the last year, so it’s hard to get DJs to raise the bar of what they’re capable of doing, or what they think is necessary to do to maintain your identity throughout the entire pandemic.

Hassahn: Back in the day, you used to do live mixing, but how has being a DJ specifically aided in your radio career? Are there things where you could do things that somebody who’s not a radio personality couldn’t?

Nick: I think it’s helped us immensely.

We’re so close to the music, the artistry of the music, and the production of the A26 | RADIOFACTS.COM

music. As DJs, we need to know the ins and outs of every record that we’re playing when we’re playing it, so we have to be intimately involved in knowing that music, and that’s a relationship a lot of radio personalities might not have.

Like, about Hurby “Luv Bug” Azor, who produced Push It by Salt-n-Pepa in 1985, using the drum machine. Now, these are the kind of things that we have intimate knowledge of because as DJs, we wanted to know—when we bought that record—who produced this record? What label is it on? What A&R person signed this record? Who’s involved in this entire project? That’s the kind of knowledge that has helped us. Being able to talk about these records so intimately and knowledgeably is something that other people just probably might not get.

Nick: We were forced to produce records because they would not let us on the radio in Bakersfield. We were on that one station for the summer of 1988 in Bakersfield, and they rated for the first time, and I don’t know how many years, just with that one little summer of the Baka Boyz being on the air, eventually the guy, he changed formats, so we got kicked off the show, or off the station, and we were searching for another radio station. We did find one but it wasn’t the same energy. Eric started going to work and we were asking Tony G, who became a friend of ours, “How do we get into producing music?” We saw that Tony was starting to put out production pieces and works, and we used to play his music, so we’re like, “Wow, how’d you do that?”

Eric: Little information, little tidbits.

When we would get serviced from the record pools, there was one guy that would master records, and he would sign the record on the wax. It was Herb something . . I forgot his name, but it seemed like whatever he signed was the dopest record for some reason. We would look at those things, like the little tidbits that nobody else would pick up on; as DJs, you have to know what’s poppin’, what’s hot, what new artist is hot, and you have to stay up with what’s going on, and we’ve continued to do that because we have two current mix shows that run on current radio stations, CHR, Rhythmic, Urban, and Pop. We have to know the new Justin Bieber, the new “Baby,” the new “Lil” whoever, you know what I mean? Whatever is out there, we have to be up on what’s going on.

And he told us, “There’s one drum machine you have to get. It’s called the SP 1200.” Eric went to work, saved every check for the entire summer, and eventually saved enough money to go to Los Angeles. We purchased that drum machine because we were trying to get into Bakersfield’s big FM radio stations, but they refused us. We were 16/17-yearold Mexican kids with very little radio knowledge and we did not have the licenses they required, but regardless, they just turned us down.

Hassahn: Right. And so I was talking to a friend of mine from LA right before I got on with you guys, and I told them, “I gotta go to interview the Baka Boyz,” and the first thing out of his mouth was, “Pistol Grip Pump!” That’s one of the most legendary songs you guys produced, so I have to ask: did you just go into producing because that was a natural progression from DJing? Or did you feel it was important to diversify your portfolio, especially in radio?

Eric: Back then, if you didn’t go to school to be a radio broadcaster, you couldn’t be a radio broadcaster.

Nick: Me and Eric are like this: if we want something, we will find a way to get it, no matter what direction we need to go.

We said to ourselves, “Look, if they don’t want to let us play music on the radio, we will make music, and they will have to play our records on the radio.”

We had already kind of like said, “Fuck radio. We’re just going to produce records.” We started producing records, and we started going back and forth to Los Angeles, working with Tony G, Julio, Kid Frost, Mellow Man Ace, Lighter Shade of Brown, and eventually growing into working with The Pharcyde and so on.

I N A U G U R A L I S S U E O F W E C E L E B R AT E D I V E R S I T Y That’s where Pistol Grip Pump comes in, around ‘93. Between 1990 and 1993, when we were just heavily focused on producing records, I started working with Lighter Shade of Brown by DJing for them. I had a couple of clubs, a couple of dates, and one of those dates was back in Bakersfield, so we wound up performing in Bakersfield.

My dad once again introduced himself to the program director, Steve Wall, at that time at KKXX and me and Eric. We already said goodbye to radio when I was on tour with Lighter Shade of Brown— radio just wasn’t in the picture.

My dad said, “These are my sons. They want to be on the radio,” and Steve gave Eric a business card and said, ‘’ Call me on Monday,” so we did, and he offered us a weekend gig at KKXX to do the Saturday night mix show, which we did.

We got into producing music to answer your question because radio rejected us, and we wanted to get on the radio regardless, even if it wasn’t directly on the radio station.

Hassahn: Do you have a particular market that you love the most?

Nick: Every market has its own special time, and every market was different for different reasons. Power 106 was the very beginning; it was so exciting for us. We were young—I turned 21 on the morning show at Power 106—and with no college, no schooling, and nothing like that, it was super exciting for Power to be our first big job.

But there was another step in our career that we wouldn’t have been able to grow into if we were still in Los Angeles, which was the syndication, so that was special.

Also, being in the Bay Area at a legendary station like KMEL gave us even more credibility because we went from Los Angeles, which is predominantly Latino and successful, and then we went to a predominantly Black market; KMEL was straight-up urban, and we won there as well, so that was satisfying for us.

Going to Miami was next in 2003, which was another challenge because now we

were moving across the country, and, if you’ve been in hip hop for a while, there’s this whole East Coast vs. West Coast, “We don’t play West Coast music, and they don’t play East.” It was that whole time and era where E40 never got played in Miami, for instance.

So when we would go across the country, the whole thing was like, “Okay, well, they’re not Cuban or Puerto Rican.

They’re Mexican. What are they going to do over here?” In the end, we broke that barrier as well, and we were very successful in Miami. So every market had a very special meaning to us for different reasons, and I can’t say I like one over the other. Every market had very unique experiences that helped guide us and bring us to the professionals that we are today ...

Eric: ... and mold us. I would probably have to say the most fun market for me was Miami. Do I love LA? Yes, absolutely.

This is home, but Miami was like a second home for me. It was just wild; we did so much crazy shit on the radio out there. You know we did the April Fool’s joke with the chicken breasts? “Free chicken breasts for the first 103 women that showed up to the station,” we said and they lined up outside.

We brought them into a room and had a fake doctor say, “This is Dr. Purdue, blah, blah, blah,” and all the stuff like that and we had him read out loud, “Hey you’re entitled to a pair of free chicken breasts,” and the women went nuts and started throwing chicken everywhere. The cops came. That was awesome.

They ushered us out of there like, “You guys gotta get out of here. Fuck you, Baka Boyz, you motherfuckers. I knew this was a joke the whole time.” It was fun, man, it was really fun. We did so much crazy stuff on The Beat 103.5— shout out to Steve Smith for bringing us in and trusting us.

The way I look at it is like, we moved across the country and we’re not Cuban, but I think if you’re good at whatever you do, nobody makes an issue of your age, of your ethnicity, or of what you do.

What matters is what comes out of the speakers and the connection that you make with that listener. There are still people that love us out there in Miami.

They know what we did. I mean, we used to do this crazy song—Nick made up the song about the weather because Miami has the weirdest weather system ever.

One day, it’s raining on one side of the street but on the other side, it’s sunny.

It’s just some weird shit. So, I would read the weather and it’d be like 70 degrees and a chance of isolated thunderstorms, so one day Nick puts on this booty bass, Miami up-tempo music, and we started singing “Isolated thunderstorms, isolated thunderstorms,” over that shit, so then people would start calling us and be like, “Man, I’m looking outside my window, It looks like isolated thunderstorms,” you know, they wanted us to sing the song, It would get people hyped. The weirdest things would resonate with people: from seeing our Sanford and Son intro, to the isolated thunderstorms, to the roll call, to drop bombs on your mom’s, all these things have hit people in different ways.

It’s awesome which is what stays with me.

Hassahn: So how would you describe how each of you bring the most to the table?

Eric: Nick’s energy is infectious. Of the two of us when we’re on the air, he’s the leader, like, “We’re doing this.” And he starts it off and his energy spreads to me so I can bring what I bring to the table.

But I think his chemistry with me is that we’re brothers, are there any other duo’s that are brothers? Are the Babalu Bad Boyz brothers, Nick?

Nick: They’re twins. Rich and Ray are twins.

Eric: Yeah, they’re twins. I just feel like our energy is the Yin and Yang. He’s positive and uplifting, and I’m on the monkey wrench. There would be no Baka Boyz without Nick, 100%. I can do what I can on my own, but it’s not the same.

When we’re together, it’s like Voltron, like two different pieces combining.

RADIO FACTS | A27

I N A U G U R A L I S S U E O F W E C E L E B R AT E D I V E R S I T Y Hassahn: I used to love Voltron by the way. But anyway, Nick, same question to you, about Eric.

do my best to do so, and Eric V doesn’t see it sometimes and he’s like, “I don’t know bro, I don’t know.”

Nick: Eric is a very special individual.

His mind and his thought process are . . . I can’t even come up with some of the things he says off the top of his head. Like Eric said, when we’re combined, we’re just going back and forth and working on each other, because I’m quick-witted and he’s quick-witted.

Hassahn: Eric, give me an example of somebody Nick brought to you and you were like “GTFOH.”

But I’m quick-witted in a more positive way, trying to put a positive spin on things, and Eric is the one who’s going to say some stuff that you just can’t believe he said out loud. And I’m like, “You cannot say that! You cannot do that! It’s not acceptable.”

We’re just constantly going back and forth on the good cop, bad cop thing, so it works well. As far as the music is concerned, I think his mastery is his knowledge in selecting music and his love for music and he’s the smartest DJ that I know with the way he plays his music. So, his music selection, his quickwittedness, and his evilness—there are three different aspects.

Eric: I lean to the dark side, bro.

Hassahn: Nick, I saw in an interview that you’ll go to some of those smalltown artists’ shows with like three people to look for new talent. Is that still the same?

Nick: Yeah. I’m kind of a nerd like that.

I like to be first to the party so I can tell everybody how dope it was and let them know what they’re missing. I think I’m special like that. I can see things like four or five years in advance and tell that this person or this sound is going to be something special, and so I take it upon myself.

My job as a DJ is to be groundbreaking; to be the first one to say, “Hey, man, Nick V broke this artist, or Nick V found this artist, or this producer, this writer, this rapper, this singer, this guitar player, this amazing drum player.” This talent needs to be heard, needs to be seen, and anyway I can bring it into my world, I will A28 | RADIOFACTS.COM

Eric: I never say get the fuck out of here.

I’ve learned to trust his ear because he’s so advanced when it comes to music.

Like Nick said, I don’t say I love music.

I love listening to it and I love where it takes you, but I don’t listen to music daily. I love silence.

So, when I’m playing video games or driving in my car, it’s silent. Music is a distraction for me, so that’s why I don’t listen to it. But for instance, Nick told me about The Weeknd, maybe eight years ago now? And when Nick believes, he is a pit bull; he will not let go. He will tell everybody. He’ll go to a homeless person. “Have you heard The Weeknd?”

Shit like that, you know? He will sell it to everybody—if you ain’t got it on your phone, he’ll get on your phone and buy it for you. That’s how far he goes.

And he told me about Jhene Aiko and Anderson .Paak. He knows his shit.

I’m the opposite of him—I call it the Ignormeter—I just go with shit that’s kind of ignorant, that will sometimes work on the hip hop side. I know when a record is not all there, obviously, and I know what’s gonna work, but Nick’s passion is bar none about everything. He’s always looking for new artists to discover and new artists to share and his passion is really about that shit.

Hassahn: If we were throwing a party for the Baka Boyz to celebrate your success, who would you pick to DJ your party?

Nick: Okay, I’m gonna go with DJ Melo-D from the Beat Junkies, Mr. Choc from the Beat Junkies, and J Rocc from the Beat Junkies. There are three right there. I would love to see them at my party, DJing it out.

Eric: Tony G, man, we got to get Tony in there. Mr. Choc for sure; did you know we grew up with him in Bakersfield? His

devotion and love for the art of DJing surpassed what he was when we first knew him at Bakersfield. He is a teacher, he is a student, he’s gone leaps and bounds that I didn’t know he could go to, and he’s still dope as hell. So, I would say Tony, Julio and probably Melo-D for me.

Hassahn: What’s next for you guys?

What do you want to accomplish with this radio show?

Eric: We want to bring great radio back to radio. We want to bring great personality and excitement to the radio stations that we’re on. We’ve been asked multiple times to get back into the Monday through Friday business from a lot of programmers and a lot of great friends.

The knowledge that we’ve acquired from the program directors that we had, from Rick Cummings to Steve Smith, and Michael Martin . . . we’ve taken everything from everywhere that we can, to make us who we are today, and that goes for DJing as well.

The programming that Nick talks about— as far as my selection, I think about every record that I play and why I’m gonna play that record—that skill is all about what we’ve acquired over all the years, and I want to be able to bring that excitement back to the radio.

Hassahn: What about you, Nick?

Nick: This is a tough one for me, brother.

I’ve had my love affair, and my not-solove affair, with radio over the years, and more than anything, that’s because of a lack of movement and a lack of being able to see and apply the knowledge of technology that is available to us and happening all around us.

That’s made me feel like radio probably isn’t the next best thing for me as in my career, honestly. What I want to do is recreate radio. I want to recreate the magic that radio is by utilizing all of the different platforms and capabilities that we have and getting the audience back on the air.

I N A U G U R A L I S S U E O F W E C E L E B R AT E D I V E R S I T Y The audience needs to be a bigger part of what their radio station sounds like.

Since the very beginning, it’s been a one-way street with radio; that’s why the roll call and those interactive things that we brought were so important. I think that’s necessary now—today more than anything, people are not as excited about radio.

We want to make people excited about turning on their favorite home radio station and listening to their favorite onair jocks who are bringing good energy and positivity and talking to you, listening to you, and utilizing this powerful medium called music to bring the community together.

Hassahn: Average, everyday people that I know prefer to go to outlets like Spotify, Tidal, Apple, and iTunes.

Speaking of that, do you feel like the streaming platforms make it difficult for radio to be as successful as it used to be?

Eric: There are more options now, so you don’t have to listen to that radio station anymore to hear your song. You can make your playlist and put what you want on there. I feel like radio is going through what the record labels went through when they didn’t adapt to digital platforms. Radio has not adapted.

It’s not interactive. We do radio here and there, but it’s not what it used to be. People are visual now. They want to be involved in stuff and you have to make them feel like they are a part of it by making it more interactive. You have to look at what’s out there and what people are using.

People are listening on apps but if I go listen to a radio station on an app, that’s all I can do there—listen. What if I want to call them from that app? I can’t? What if I want to video chat with them from that app? I can’t? That’s like saying, “You can come to the club, but you can only watch from the outside.” For radio, there needs to be more interaction between the audience and the station so that listeners can become a part of the show.

Everybody likes when they’re a part of something.

Nick: If you’re a regular person out there who loves music and you have your Spotify or Tidal, you get to be creative with what you listen to; you become the creator of your own radio station. If you want to listen to Biggie Smalls and then you want it to go to a country record, guess what? You can.

You can’t do that with radio; it’s one thing, one style of music, one sound, and it’s the same twenty records for three months. How is that going to win over a platform where you can dictate what you want to hear next with nobody talking to you and nobody selling you anything on the air? It’s a tall order like we’re trying to turn around the Titanic here.

Hassahn: We’re making a soundtrack to the Baka Boyz life that talks about your legacy—whether it’s an industry, your personal life, or whatever you want it to be—and you guys get to pick the artists and the producers of the soundtrack. Who do you pick?

Nick: That’s beautiful. That’s a great question.

Eric: This is a Nick V question all the way. I will trust his judgment, his ear, and his knowledge to put together the best soundtrack for us.

Nick: We’re gonna have to start with the producers. They’re the ones who are going to bring the blank slate for the artists to do their art on, so Quincy Jones will be a producer on the album. We would call in Dr. Dre, just to be a part of it and Marley Marl. I think, between those three producers, we should be able to get a nice tapestry of sound and collect it for the Baka Boyz.

As far as writers are concerned, that one’s a tough one. I want to be as smart about the writers. If we could call in Marvin Gaye, that’d be awesome. Biggie Smalls, I would love to bring him in.

People who can paint pictures with their words like Ice Cube. I would love to get

a voice like Michael Jackson and Prince involved Vocally. Maybe the roots can do the instrumentation and Just Blaze can direct them.

Hassahn: Do you want to promote anything else that you are doing?

Eric: Our socials—Instagram and everything is @thebakaboyz, T.H.E.B.A.K.A.B.O.Y.Z. Also on Twitch, like Nick said, we’re on a road to 5,000 followers. I stream there and we’re going to be streaming the show that we’re doing for Bounce.

You’re going to see what we do and how we do our show, like a behindthe-scenes live. So every day, Monday through Friday, we will be doing our show for Bounce on Twitch, and you’re gonna see the uncut, raw, in-between. Whether we’re talking about what we’re gonna do next or we’re arguing about something, you’re gonna see it all, so the curtain will be unveiled.

I do a lot of live mixing on Twitch, as well.

Usually, Wednesdays and Thursdays I stream and I’ll play a lot of that stuff that you love. I’ll play Michael and Prince then I’ll go into my R&B tangent. The channel is all over the place and that’s the beauty of that platform.

Hassahn: It’s been such a pleasure to talk to you today. Thank you for rocking with me. I wish you all continued success and thanks for what y’all do for the culture.

Eric: No doubt, man. If we ever get to Chicago, we‘ve got to hit you up and you got to take us to some spots.

Hassahn: I got you, bro. We got some great food in Chicago. And, I’m gonna challenge you on one thing, Eric. You said the weather in Miami is crazy shit? It ain’t got nothing on Chicago.

Literally in one day, I’ve seen it sleet, snow, have sunshine, and then be warm enough to wear shorts, later that day. It happened in 1994 and I’ll never forget it.

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