Legal Education in the U.S

The Practice of Law A Group Interview

This interview is a compilation of four separate interviews with four individuals with varied experience of legal practice. My thanks to Korey Kaul, Appellate Defender, State of Kansas; Kurt Level, Deputy General Counsel, Labor, Employment, and Benefit Group, Koch Industries; David Magariel, Assistant Federal Defender, Federal Public Defender; and Nicolas C. Shump, NYU Law Class of 2020 for their time and insight into the legal profession and the practice of law.

What did you study as an undergraduate?

Korey Kaul BA in Art History from the University of Kansas.

Kurt Level BAs in Political Science and Public Communications from the University of Kansas.

David Magariel Initially attended Johnson County Community College where I participated in debate. Transferred to the University of Kansas; continued to participate in college debate and earned a BA in Communication Studies.

Nicolas Shump Attended Stanford University. Earned a BA in International Relations with a concentration in International Political Economy and a Minor in Spanish.

Are there particular majors you would recommend for students interested in pursuing law school?

Nicolas Shump I don’t think your undergraduate major is particularly important. Law school involves a great deal of reading and writing.

David Magariel Hone your skills as a writer. Debate proved to be great preparation for me because it taught me to think critically and how to make decisions quickly.

Kurt Level For high school students, debate would be a good activity. Student government is helpful too. Majors that emphasize reading comprehension such as English or History. Communication Studies helped me with public speaking.

Korey Kaul Journalism is a good option – or majors that emphasize writing.

Did you apply to law school right after your undergraduate program?

David Magariel No. I took a year off and accepted a position as the debate coach at University of Texas Dallas.

Nicolas Shump I took two years off after my undergraduate degree.

What was your law school application process?

Kurt Level I applied to a few schools, but as I was paying for law school, I found KU to be a good value.

Korey Kaul I applied to some prestigious law schools like Harvard, Yale, and NYU. However, I received a scholarship offer to KU, which is where I decided to attend.

Nicolas Shump I mostly applied to schools where even if I did not like the area, I would have good career mobility. This narrowed my search down to about 15 20 schools, most of which I applied to. My decision came down to acceptances, cost of attendance, and taking campus visits to the schools which had accepted me. I chose NYU.

David Magariel Living in Texas, I applied to UT Austin, but did not receive in state status. Received acceptances to Washington University, but not any funding. It came down to KU and UMKC. I felt KU had a slightly better ranking and I already knew KU from my undergrad program.

Did you have a favorite experience or law school class?

Korey Kaul I had the opportunity to work with what is now called The Innocence Project Clinic. I really enjoyed the practical aspect of doing legal work.

Nicolas Shump For several reasons, I enjoyed working with the clinics. They were much smaller than my classes and even my seminars. You worked with maybe 8 12 people and you learned much about their own legal interests and career goals. It was a broad exposure to the law. I had the opportunity to work with the national ACLU office on a Voting Rights Project.

David Magariel Moot Court proved to be a valuable experience for me as I knew I wanted to work in trial law. Also, I worked with the Legal Aid Clinic that had an arrangement with the City of Lawrence Municipal Court. I worked with juvenile offenders, housing law, and domestic issues too. It was good experience interacting with real clients on real legal issues.

Kurt Level My first semester torts class. My professor had specific requirements for formatting and length of assignments. I did not follow instructions and earned my first “F” in any level of education. This taught me to follow rules and to not cut corners. Moot Court was fun too.

As practitioners are there things you wished you had learned in law school?

Kurt Level The value of doing activities like Law Review and the importance of class rank. In terms of practice, law school teaches you to view the law holistically and with an academic approach. As a practitioner in employment law, I must provide advice or a process for my client rather than just listing options.

Korey Kaul New attorneys often think the law means particular things. I have learned there are no absolute answers, only the particular case in front of you. You have to make an argument and defend it in court.

David Magariel I wish I had paid more attention to writing in law school. I have taken seminars since I started practicing. Law school teaches you the “ivory tower” approach to the law.