კულტურა პლუს 1 (23) 2021 by კულტურა Plus

1 (23) 2021 s a g a n m a n a T l e b l o - s a z o g a d o e b r i v i

J u r n a l i

sarCevi / CONTENTS maestro

MAESTRO

akaki xoStaria

AKAKI KHOSHTARIA

dRes SemiZlia vTqva, rom xalxuri simRera gadarCa

TODAY, I CAN SAY THAT FOLK MUSIC HAS SURVIVED

portreti lali gulisaSvilisa

LALI GULISASHVILI’S PORTRAIT

„adamianSi adamianis Camoyalibeba saidumloa~

THE FORMATION OF MAN IN MAN IS A MYSTERY

PRINCE MATCHABELLI

zurab Jvania - kaci da xelisufali

ZURAB ZHVANIA – THE MAN AND THE LEADER

qrestomaTiuli don kixoti

CHRESTOMATIC DON QUIXOTE

rom ara fexburTeli, viqnebodi...

IF I HADN’T BEEN A FOOTBALLER, I WOULD’VE BEEN...

saredaqcio jgufi EDITORIAL STAFF xaTuna kereseliZe KHATUNA KERESELIDZE aleqsandre ServaSiZe ALEKSANDRE SHERVASHIDZE ekaterine CulaSvili EKATERINE CHULASHVILI ioseb feiqriSvili IOSEB PEIKRISHVILI revaz iukuriZe REVAZ IUKURIDZE

dizaineri DESIGNER nikoloz bagrationi NIKOLOZ BAGRATIONI

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gamodis kvartalSi erTxel JurnalSi ganTavsebuli masalis gamoyeneba SeiZleba mxolod redaqciis TanxmobiT

Issued quarterly The materials published in this magazine cannot be used without the authorization of the editorial staff

ISSN 2346-8165

garekanze: irakli ToiZis grafika Cover: sketch by Irakli Toidze

4 (22) 2020

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KAKHA JAMBURIA

kaxa jamburia

MAESTRO

maestro galaktioni

With the murder of Ilia in Tsitsamuri, The great era is over. Galaktioni

marTali iyo galaktioni _ epoqebs konkretuli adamianebi qmnian da marTlac mTavrdeba esa Tu is epoqa didi pirovnebis gardacvalebiT. tragikulad mTavrdeba xolme, samwuxarod. Cemi axsna-ganmarteba, cxadia, ar sWirdeba imas, Tu ra damTavrda ilias mkvlelobiT, magram ratomRac me vgrZnob pasuxismgeblobas _ daviwyo msjeloba, ra damTavrda guram doCanaSvilis gardacvalebiT. ratom vbedav, rom ase gavkadnierde? imitom, rom qarTuli prozis didma maestrom Cemi cxovrebis erT ubednieres da urTules momentSi ucnauri ram Caidina: momca Tavisi axali wignis xelnaweri da miTxra, waikiTxe da, Tu sisulelea, ar damimalo, icode, miTxario. jer, ra Tqma unda, megona, xumrobda, radgan man Zalian kargad icoda, rom me mas msoflioSi erTerT saukeTeso mwerlad vTvlidi da romc momxdariyo CemTvis sruliad warmoudgeneli ram da ar momwoneboda misi axali romani, amis Tqmas rogor gavbedavdi? da mainc _ xelSi meWira guramis xeliT nasworebi uzarmazari moculobis manqanaze nabeWdi furclebi, vuyurebdi mis naTel Tvalebs da TandaTan vacnobierebdi, rom verasdros SevZlebdi misTvis tyuilis Tqmas. unda wameRo saxlSi da saswrafod damewyo kiTxva _ es iyo guramis pirveli romani `samoselis~ gamoqveynebis Semdeg (20 welze meti iyo gasuli) da sakmaod gvian mivxvdi, rom didi mwerali, Tqven warmoidgineT, mis gamoqveynebamde Zalian nerviulobda. dRes, ukve didi dro rom gavida mas Semdeg, SemiZlia miaxloebiT ganvsazRvro _ ratom damdo pativi da ratom amarCia me aseTi rTuli gadawyvetilebis misaRebad _ unda gamoqveynebuliyo Tu ara maSin guramis meore romani „lodi, nasaydrali“. 80-iani wlebis dasawyisSi, rodesac mTeli Cemi Taoba sulmouTqmelad kiTxulobda „samosel pirvels“ da iqidan amoRebul frazebs ukve sasaubro metyvelebaSi iyenebda, daibeWda qarTul enaze Seqmnili pirveli postmodernuli teqsti „vater(po)loo anu aRdgeniTi samuSaoebi“, romlis saTauric ki ukve aSkara demarSi iyo yovelgvari socrealizmisa Tu msgavsi idiotobebis winaaRmdeg; teqstis pirveli furclebis wakiTxvisTanave ki ukve

Galaktioni was right – eras are created by specific people, and this or that era ends tragically with the passing of a great person. There is no need for me to explain what ended with Ilia’s murder, but for some reason I feel the urge to start discussing what ended with the death of Guram Dochanashvili. Why? Because the great maestro of Georgian prose did a strange thing in one of the happiest and most difficult moments of my life: at first, of course, I mentally conceived he was jesting, because he knew very well that I considered him to be one of the best writers in the world, and even if something thoroughly unbelievable transpired to me and I did not relish his new novel, how dare I verbally express that? And yet – I was holding Guram’s handprinted sheets on an immense machine, looking into his bright eyes and gradually realizing that I would never be able to lie to him. I had to take the sheets home and immediately start reading – this was Guram’s first novel after the publication of “The First Garment” (more than 20 years before) and I realized quite later that the great writer, incredibly, was very nervous before its publication. Today, a long time has passed since then, and I can more or less determine why I was honored and why I was chosen to make such a difficult decision – whether Guram’s second novel “Stone of Former Temple “ should have been published then. In the early 80’s, when my whole generation was breathlessly reading “The First Garment” and already using phrases taken from it in colloquial speech, the first postmodern text in Georgian “Water(po) loo or Restoration Works” was published, the title of which was already an obvious demarche against any social realism or similar idiocies; as soon as the first pages of the text were read, everything became clear: the word “I was downwarded “ [untranslatable play on words] or the phrase “I stood among them as the word 'therefore'" seemed to us only a naive and clear joke compared to what happened in “Water(po)loo” – it was no longer a literary language filled with modern chancelleries and faded clichés, it was already a whole new linguistic world built by a genius creator, where “Mimofantaste Afrederik I” (obviously the author’s alter ego) offered a completely unimaginable carnival for pre-existing Soviet literature, where in the blazing fireworks of the the word creation we saw in a totally different and new way a beauteously-footed Carmen on a slippery road, with whom Mimofantaste would suddenly fall in love. And something started, exactly what should have started at such

wiwamurSi rom mokles ilia, maSin epoqa gaTavda didi.

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yvelaferi naTeli xdeboda: sityva „Camomalaborentes“ an fraza „me ki videqi maT Soris, rogorc sityva maSasadame“ mxolod gulubryvilo da naTel xumrobad mogveCveneboda imasTan SedarebiT, rac „vater(po)loo“-Si datrialda _ es aRar iyo Tanamedrove kancelarizmebiTa da gacveTili kliSeebiT gavsebuli literaturuli ena, es ukve genialuri Semoqmedis mier agebuli sruliad axali enobrivi samyaro iyo, sadac „mimofantaste afrederik me“ (cxadia, avtoris alter ego) manamde arsebuli sabWoTa literaturisTvis sruliad warmoudgenel karnavals gvTavazobda, sadac sityvaTqmnadobis elvare foierverkSi sruliad axleburad vxedavdiT molipul gzaze lamazad fexSedgmul karmens, mimofantaste moulodnelad siyvarulSi rom gamoutydeboda. da daiwyo is, rac aseT dros aucileblad unda dawyebuliyo _ maSindeli axalgazrdobis sruli aRtaceba da e. w. oficiozis (anu xelisuflebis maamebeli kritikosebis) sruli dabneuloba _ jer kidev „samoseli pirvelis~ antidiqtatoruli suliskveTeba ver moenelebina sabWoTa xelisuflebas, rom mweralma axla ukve karmenis saxis transformaciiTa da niWieri musikosis bedis CvenebiT Tavisuflebis namdvili himni Seqmna. etyoba es ukve metismeti iyo mwerlebis mimarT aSkarad loialurad ganwyobili qarTveli komunistebisTvis. da amas mohyva TviT yvelafris mkadrebeli sabWoTa kritikisTvisac ki samarcxvino da yovlad sazizRari ori publikacia: Jurnal „mnaTobSi~ erTma yovlad usircxvilo „inteleqtualma“ Seutia besik xaranaulsa da guram doCanaSvils, Cemi TaobisTvis gansakuTrebulad sayvarel mwerlebsa da iseT zneobriv adamianebs, rogorebic ar uyvardaT qarTvel komunistebs _ maT aSkarad erCivnaT sistemiT kmayofili xalxi da yovelgvarad cdilobdnen konformistebis waxalisebas. guramisTvis yvelaze ufro mtkivneuli is iyo, rom misi teqstidan amoRebuli citatebi Segnebulad hqondaT damaxinjebuli „patarpatara profesorebs“ (rogorc sxva moTxrobaSi uwodebs maT) da am Secvlil frazebze iyo mTeli kritika agebuli _ gasagebia, ramdenad obieqturi iqneboda igi! imdroindel mTavar beWdur organoSi, gazeT „komunistSi“ ki, ramdenadac maxsovs, ukanasknel gverdze iyo „ganxiluli“ ideologiuri poziciebidan mwerlis erT-erTi saukeTeso moTxroba da dasmuli iyo daaxloebiT amgvari kiTxvebi: karcer-luqsis ideiT saiTken gvibiZgebs avtori? xom ar surs mas qveyana karcerebiT gavavsoT da iq axalgazrdebi CavsvaT? Cems gancvifrebas sazRvari ar hqonda, rodesac aRmovaCine, rom am ukanasknel avtorze (romelmac guram doCanaSvili lamis faSistad gamoacxada) mwerali maincdamainc ar gabrazda, im pirvel „inteleqtualze~ ki Zalian nawyeni iyo. mogvianebiT gavarkvie, ratom

a time – the complete admiration of the youth of that period and the complete confusion of so-called officials (or flattering critics of the government) – yet the anti-dictatorial spirit of “The First Garment “ did not dampen the Soviet government. Creating a true anthem of freedom by showing the fate of a talented musician. It seems that this was already too much for the Georgian communists, who were clearly loyal to the writers. And this was followed by two embarrassing and utterly disgusting publications, even for the harsh Soviet critics: in the magazine “Mnatobi“, one of the most shameless “intellectuals” attacked Besik Kharanauli and Guram Dochanashvili. They were obviously chosen by people who were content with the system and tried in every way to encourage the conformists. The most painful for Guram was that the quotes from his text were deliberately distorted by the “little professors” (as he is called in another story) and all the criticism was built on these changed phrases – it is clear how objective a criticism it could be! As far as I can remember, one of the best stories of the writer was discussed only on the last page of the newspaper “Communist” from an ideological viewpoint, and the following questions were asked: where does the author push us with the idea of Karzer-Lux (punishment cell)? Does he want to fill the country with punishment cells and put young people there? My astonishment knew no bounds when I discovered that the writer was not irate with the author of the second article (who declared Guram Dochanashvili almost a fascist) and was very upset with the author of the first one. I later ascertained why this was the case. He could not forgive the first for shamelessly distorting the texts while making citations, and the second shameless author greeted him with a smile during the meeting, shook his hand and verbally expressed his position: you know, I do not think like it is written in the article, but if I had not written, it would have been much worse and someone else could write about it in the worst manner. In short, Guram was almost obligated by this shameless person; such behaviour was a common trick in the communist era, and was often used successfully by officials, artists, or writers who had sold their conscience to justify their own unprincipledness. My generation was outraged by these unblushing attacks because Guram was not only a great writer for us – he was a man who was twice imprisoned by the Communists for his dissident actions and was one of nine men (along with his classmates Zviad Gamsakhurdia and Merab Kostava), who for the first time in the history of the Soviet Union put up anti-Soviet proclamations in our city demanding the independence of Georgia! If I am not mistaken, it was in 1957, and whoever knows at least a little about the Soviet Union, will easily understand what valiancy it took at that time for such a rebellious action. So we perceive such an unequivocal reproval of Dochanashvili as a struggle against free spirit. There was another circumstance that led me to write the letter “Water(po)loo and so on”, comparing this story to Kurt Vonnegut’s prose: I wanted to show that Guram was criticized for using an artistic method that led to the praise of Kurt Vonnegut in America – a free world , where innovation was

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moxda ase. man ver apatia pirvel unamusos, rom teqstebi daumaxinja „citirebis~ dros, meore unamuso ki Sexvedrisas RimiliT miesalma, xeli CamoarTva da uTxra, xom ici, me sulac ar vfiqrob ise, rogorc im statiaSia, magram es rom ar meqna, magaze bevrad uaress sxva dawerdao. mokled, lamis iqiT daado vali, rac komunistur epoqaSi sakmaod gavrcelebuli fandi iyo da sindis-namus gayiduli Cinovnikebi, xelovanebi Tu literatorebi sakuTari uprincipobis gasamarTleblad xSirad warmatebiT iyenebdnen. Cemi Taoba am yovlad usindiso TavdasxmebiT imitomac iyo aRSfoTebuli, rom gurami CvenTvis marto didi mwerali ar iyo _ is iyo kaci, romelic orjer Casves komunistebma cixeSi disidentobisTvis da erT-erTi iyo im 9 kacidan (Tavis klaselebTan, zviad gamsaxurdiasa da merab kostavasTan, erTad), romlebmac sabWoTa imperiis istoriaSi pirvelad gaakres Cvens qalaqSi antisabWoTa proklamaciebi saqarTvelos damoukideblobis moTxovniT! Tu ar vcdebi, es iyo 1957 wels da, vinc cota ram mainc icis sabWoTa kavSiris Sesaxeb, is advilad mixvdeba, ra gambedaoba sWirdeboda im dros aseT TavzexelaRebul aqcias. ase rom, doCanaSvilis aseTi umsgavso kritika Cven aRviqviT, rogorc

encouraged and valued in the creative sphere in contrast to our, totalitarian, reality. It is not uncommon for Mr. Guram to be accused of distorting the Georgian literary language – how far can we go if everyone writes as they should and does not follow the rules. I remember one of the discussions (unlike today, such a thing was very common then), one well-known and very positive critic of Guram advised him not to distort the Georgian language – what form is “very very much” or why there is the need to create these words, does not our language have enough means of expression, not to invent new forms? For some reason I got very angry. I sat back in the hall and my speech was not planned at all, but I still ran to the stage. At that time I was working in the Department of Rustvelology of the Institute of Literature and, as befitted my youthful arrogance, I thought that I knew “The Knight in the Panther’s Skin” and other medieval Georgian texts well (naivety, I think, is forgivable). I categorically told the writer and mentor that the view that word-formation in Georgian literature was started by Dochanashvili was only the result of illiteracy. None of the monumental works of the era of “The Knight in the Panther’s Skin” contained the forms used by Rustaveli, for example: “Gakhma Mkivarda”, “Tsam tsa gaidarbaza” or “Mo-tsa-kvda, gakhiskhlmindarda” and it is interesting whether they were also telling Rustaveli that he

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brZola Tavisufali sulis winaaRmdeg. iyo meore garemoebac, ramac me damawerina werili „vater(po)loo da ase Semdeg~, sadac am moTxrobas kurt vonegutis prozas vadarebdi, radgan mindoda meCvenebina, rom gurams akritikebdnen imgvari mxatvruli meTodis gamoyenebisTvis, romlis gamoc qebiT camde aiyvanes kurt voneguti amerikaSi _ Tavisuflebis samyaroSi, sadac novatoroba SemoqmedebiT sferoSi waxalisebuli da dafasebuli iyo Cveni, totalitaruli, realobisagan gansxvavebiT. arc ise iSviaTad baton gurams edavebodnen, rom is amaxinjebda qarTul saliteraturo enas _ yvelam rom ise weros, rogorc unda da wesebi ar daicvas, sadamde mivalTo. maxsovs erT-erT ganxilvaze (awmyosgan gansxvavebiT aseTi ram maSin Zalian xSiri iyo), erTma cnobilma da guramis mimarT kargad ganwyobilma kritikosma urCia, nu amaxinjeb qarTul enas _ ra formaa „Zaliani~ an es sityvaTqmnadoba ra saWiroa, Cvens enas ara aqvs sakmarisi gamomsaxvelobiTi saSualebebi, axali formebi rom ar movigonoTo? ratomRac Zalian gavbrazdi. darbazSi ukan vijeqi da Cemi gamosvla gaTvaliswinebuli saerTod ar iyo, magram mainc gamovvardi. im periodSi literaturis institutis

was distorting language and whether they were telling him how he should write. When the meeting ended, Guram told me, “You do not know how often I have been reprimanded because the territory of Georgia is not enough for me and that I invented Canudos and Alcaras.” No matter how many times I endeavored, I restrained myself so many times and did not ask where the action takes place in “ The Knight in the Panther’s Skin “ – I thought they would think that I compare myself to Rustaveli. But once I was persistently asked where this “Drahkan” (golden coins) was taken from I answered, it is written in “The Knight in the Panther’s Skin“." Thus, uneducated people are more likely to give themselves the right to teach others and usually do not often understand what great writers are saying or reflecting. For example, many may not even understand what Guram has repeatedly said – I am not a writer, I am a rewriter. In a text of Giorgi Merchule, one can read: ”And here is the annual Yadgar written by the inspiration of the Holy Spirit and the hand of Khandzta.”, which means that in the Khandzta Monastery there was an annual Yadgar (collection of prayers and hymns) created by the hand of Father Gregory of Khandzta and inspired by the Holy Spirit. Guram did not repeat it by accident, a real writer is in fact a mediator and I am just a rewriter, the creator is the only one and everything is created by him. No one will think that this was a posture,

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rusTvelologiis ganyofilebaSi vmuSaobdi da, rogorc Cems axalgazrdul ampartavnebas Seefereboda, vTvlidi, rom „vefxistyaosanic~ kargad vicodi da Sua saukuneebis sxva qarTuli teqstebic (gulubryviloba, vgoneb, misatevebelia). mTeli kategoriulobiT ganvucxade mwerlisTvis rCevis mimcemsa da damrigebels, rom Sexeduleba, TiTqos sityvaTqmnadoba qarTul mwerlobaSi doCanaSvilis dawyebulia, mxolod gaunaTleblobis Sedegi iyo. „vefxistyaosnis~ epoqis arc erT ZeglSi ar arsebobda is formebi, romlebsac rusTveli iyenebda, magaliTad: „gaxmamyivarda“, „camca gaidarbazesa“ an „mo-ca-kvda, gasisxlmdinarda“ da saintereso kia, „vefxistyaosnis“ avtorsac Tu sayvedurobdnen Tanamedroveebi enis damaxinjebas da albaT Wkuasac arigebdnen, rogor unda ewera-meTqi. Sexvedra rom damTavrda, guramma miTxra, Sen ar Seswrebixar, Torem xSirad msayveduroben, ratom ar aris sakmarisi SenTvis saqarTvelos teritoria da ra kanudosi da alkarasi agitydao. ramdenjerac davapire, imdenjer Tavi Sevikave da aRar vkiTxe, „vefxistyaosanSi~ sad xdeba moqmedeba-meTqi, rom ar efiqraT _ rusTvels adarebs Tavso. magram erTxelac rom Camacivdnen, es „drahkani~ mainc sad jandabidan moitaneo, maSin ki vuTxari, „vefxistyaosanSi~ weria-meTqi. asea, gaunaTlebeli adamianebi ufro aZleven Tavs uflebas, sxvebs Wkua daarigon da, rogorc wesi, xSirad ar esmiT, didi mwerlebi ras amboben. magaliTad, bevrma SeiZleba verc gaiazra guramis mier araerTxel naTqvami _ me mwerali ki ara, gadamweri varo. giorgi merCules teqstSi weria: „da aw ars xanZTas xeliTa misiTa sulisa mier wmidisa dawerili saweliwdoi iadgari~, rac niSnavs, rom xanZTis monasterSi iyo mama grigolis xeliTa da suli wmidis STagonebiT Seqmnili saweliwado iadgari (locvebisa da himnebis krebuli). guramic SemTxveviT ar imeorebda xolme, namdvili mwerali sinamdvileSi gamtaria da mec ubralod gadamweri var, Torem Semoqmedi erTaderTia da yvelaferi mis mier iqmnebao. nuravin ifiqrebs, rom es poza iyo, radgan yovelgvari mikib-mokibvis gareSe vityvi, rom guram doCanaSvilze ufro gulwrfeli adamiani me arc Semxvedria da verc warmomidgenia. is cxovrebaSi arasdros ar TamaSobda! TamaSobda mxolod sakuTar SemoqmedebaSi, rasac pirad saubarSi xandaxan „cuRlutobas~ eZaxda, Tumca ki yvelam, visac ki am did kacTan Sexeba gvqonia, kargad vicodiT, ra titanur Sromad jdeboda es „cuRlutoba~ an is e. w. „gadawera~. Tavadac Tqva erTxel, 1993 wels, roca misi saubari Caviwere da „literaturul saqarTveloSi~ gamovaqveyne (axla mis mravaltomeulSic aris es interviu dabeWdili), rom imdeni hqonda namuSevari yovel frazaze, rom sityvasac ver daTmobda Tavisi romanidan. aseTi pasuxi mohyva Cems SekiTxvas,

because I will say without any hesitation that I have neither met nor imagined a more sincere person than Guram Dochanashvili. He has never played a role in his life! He played only in his own works, which in private conversation was sometimes called “cunning “, but everyone who had ever known this great man knew well what a titanic work this “cunning“ or so-called “rewriting” was. He himself once said, in 1993, when I recorded his speech and published it in “Literaturuli Sakartvelo” (“Literary Georgia” – now this interview is also printed in many of his volumes) that he had worked so much on each phrase, that he could not give up a word from his novel. Such an answer followed my question of whether he imagined the screening of “The First Garment” and what he would say if such a thing were offered. He replied, I cannot imagine, because Maga will need to seriously shorten the text, and I can not give up a single word. Another time he said: the most difficult thing is to write the kind of text that readers think is easy. They might think – “I could write it myself without any problem”. He once told me that there is not a single page in the “The First Garment” that he had not rewritten at least eighteen times. Not surprisingly – he wrote this novel for 12 years, although he also published 10 short stories during that period. But here is a second novel that he gave me to read before it was published, it was probably written in six or seven years, and it is even bigger in volume than “The First Garment”. Maybe it was because he was worried about something missing and therefore needed to hear someone else’s opinion. I remember how he trusted Guram Asatiani’s intuition and taste, but by this time he was already dead, as were his older friends Niko Chavchavadze, Roman Miminoshvili, Rezo Tabukashvili and probably others whose opinion he had always been interested in. I considered his linguistic experiments and genius insights as a means of enriching the literary language, and a great success of Georgian writing, perhaps because he gave me the manuscript of a new book, in which the level of word-formation is already relevant only to Joyce’s genius novel, and implies a clearly different level of development of linguistic consciousness. Therefore, if a reader like me said that he could not overcome this book due to linguistic complexity, then he would have delayed its publication and postponed its printing. I do not think he tried to simplify the text because, as I have already said, he had thought and worked so much on each word or phrase that he probably thought it impossible to write it differently. Why? Because it was already a completely different epoch, the expression of which needed different, artistic methods that did not exist in Georgian literature before. The totalitarian world no longer existed, the Soviet dictatorship was a thing of the past and, as the book says, “Georgia was chaotic but liberated.” Those who, for this freedom, in my opinion, worked harder than others, sat in a dark and frozen house, wore a lot of clothes and, if they did not freeze, were wrapped in “blanket” (“What will Tamerlane’s sword deprive us of ?!” – he laughed at himself perfectly ). Then, when the electricity was turned off at once and the central heating was cut off, there

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warmoudgenia Tu ara „samoseli pirvelis~ ekranizacia da ras ityvis, aseT rames Tu SesTavazeben. mipasuxa, ver warmomidgenia, radgan magas dasWirdeba teqstis seriozulad Semokleba, me ki erT sityvasac ver davTmobo. sxva dros aqvs naTqvami: yvelaze Zneli swored im teqstis daweraa, kiTxvisas rom ggonia, ra advilad ikiTxeba da ra unda _ amas xom mec davwerdio. erTxel miTxra, erTi gverdic ki ar aris „samoselSi~ Tvrametjer mainc rom ar mqondes gadawerilio. ar mikvirs _ am romans is 12 weli werda, Tumca am periodSi 10 moTxrobac gamoaqveyna. magram ai meore romani, romelic gamoqveynebamde momca wasakiTxad, eqvs-Svid weliwadSi unda iyos dawerili, moculobiT ki „samoselze~ didic kia. iqneb amis gamoc nerviulobda, rame xom ar davakelio da amitom sxvisi azris mosmena sWirdeboda. maxsovs, rogor endoboda guram asaTianis alRosa da gemovnebas, magram am dros is ukve gardacvlili iyo, iseve, rogorc

were severe colds, and once Guram showed me how a thin layer of ice had accumulated in a glass of water in the room he worked in. I’m not exaggerating, it was like that – it was very cold. And “unworthy” (as he called himself in that book) sat in darkness and cold, and wondered why we had destroyed the country, why we had killed each other, and how we had come so far. Did we live in a beautiful city and seem to love each other? We were having fun, we were endlessly enjoying parties and laughing, and it turned out we were able to kill each other? Why did we turn into beasts bringing things so far? You have to stand on the moral height of Guram Dochanashvili to dare to ask these questions and, most importantly, to answer them. It took no less courage to write this huge text than to sit in a communist-era prison, because it required, above all, to tell a truth that we could not even reveal to ourselves. The writer seemed to turn his head and say in this book what he had not said before: he missed his dead child, and this longing and pain was so unbearable that he thought of suicide, but “God will not abandon a man abandoned by

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misi ufrosi megobrebi niko WavWavaZe, roman miminoSvili, rezo TabukaSvili da albaT kidev sxvebic, romelTa azric mas yovelTvis ainteresebda. SeiZleba imitomac mando axali wignis xelnaweri, rom me mis enobriv eqsperimentebsa da genialur mignebebs saliteraturo enis gamdidrebis saSualebad da qarTuli mwerlobis did warmatebad vTvlidi, am axal wignSi ki ukve sityvaTqmnadobis is done iyo, romelic mxolod joisis genialur romanSi Tu gvxvdeba da enobrivi cnobierebis ganviTarebis aSkarad sxva dones gulisxmobs. maSasadame, Tu Cemnairi mkiTxveli etyoda, rom es wigni ver daZlia enobrivi sirTulis gamo, maSin misi gamoqveyneba SesaZloa naadrevad CaeTvala da gadaedo. ara mgonia, rom teqstis gamartiveba ecada, radgan, rogorc ukve vTqvi, TiToeul sityvasa Tu frazaze imdeni hqonda nafiqri da namuSevari, rom sxvagvarad dawera albaT SeuZlebladac miaCnda. ratom? imitom, rom es iyo ukve sruliad sxva epoqa, romlis gamoxatvasac sxvagvari, qarTul mwerlobaSi aqamde ararsebuli mxatvruli xerxebi sWirdeboda. aRar arsebobda totalitaruli samyaro, sabWoTa diqtaturac warsuls Cabarda da, rogorc am wignSi weria, „areuliyo saqarTvelo, gaTavisuflebuli~. is ki, vinc am TavisuflebisTvis, Cemi azriT, sxvebze meti iSroma, Cabnelebul da gayinul saxlSi ijda, uamravi tansacmeli ecva da, rom ar gayinuliyo, zemodan kidev „adeala~ hqonda moxuruli („ras dagvaklebs xmali tamerlanisa?!~ _ sakuTar Tavsac mSvenivrad dascinoda). maSin, rodesac erTdroulad gamoirTo deni da Sewyda centraluri gaTboba, sastiki siciveebi iyo da erTxel guramma maCvena, rogor gadakroda yinulis Txeli fena WiqaSi damdgar wyals mis samuSao oTaxSi. ar vaWarbeb, ase iyo _ Zalian cioda. da ijda „uRirsi~ (ase uwoda im wignSi sakuTar Tavs) sibnelesa da siciveSi da fiqrobda, ratom davangrieT qveyana, ratom vxoceT erTmaneTi da saerTod _ rogor movediT aqamde. Cven xom lamaz qalaqSi vcxovrobdiT da TiTqos gviyvarda erTmaneTi? vlaRobdiT, gauTaveblad vqeifobdiT da vicinodiT da Turme erTmaneTis daxocva SegvZlebia? ram gagvamxeca, ram migviyvana aqamde? unda idge guram doCanaSvilis zneobriv simaRleze, rom am kiTxvebis dasma da, rac mTavaria, pasuxebis gacema gabedo. komunistebis droindel cixeSi jdomaze aranaklebi vaJkacoba sWirdeboda am uzarmazari teqstis daweras, radgan es, upirveles yovlisa, iseTi simarTlis Tqmas moiTxovda, sakuTar Tavsac rom ver vumxelT xolme. mweralma ki TiTqos Tavi gadado da swored am wignSi Tqva is, rasac manamde ar ambobda: mas enatreboda Tavisi gardacvlili Svili, es monatreba da tkivili ki iseTi autaneli iyo, rom TviTmkvlelobaze fiqrobda, magram „RmerTi ar gaswiravs kacsa, SengniT ganawirsa~ da daiwera

the world “ and one of the most inspiring pages of Georgian literature was written – Chapter 7 of this book – “Unworthy's” letter to the Catholicos-Patriarch of Georgia. I say without false humility: God did not really give me the talent to properly appreciate this genius text and therefore I will use the words of one Georgian poet: “Read and be filled with faith! ..” It was very confusing and disturbing for me to read the first pages of this book, because I immediately realized that difficult intellectual work lay ahead. Although neither humor disappeared, nor very interesting episodes written about great writers or composers were lacking in the book, it still turned out to be very difficult for me to read, and so I could not call Guram right away – I was not ready to talk. Then, when I realized that it would take longer than I initially thought for me to read the whole text, I called and honestly told him that it is a very powerful and interesting text, but I needed to read it a second time to understand it well. "I can hardly breathe" – he told me –"as you had not called, I thought you would tell me that nobody will understand what I have written."

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qarTuli mwerlobis erT-erTi yvelaze sulisSemZvreli furclebi _ am wignis me-7 Tavi _ „uRirsis~ werili saqarTvelos kaTalikos-patriarqs. yalbi Tavmdablobis gareSe vambob: namdvilad ar momca RmerTma imis niWi, saTanadod Sevafaso es genialuri teqsti da amitom erTi qarTveli poetis sityvebs gamoviyeneb: „waikiTxeT da aRivseT rwmeniT!..~ Zalian damabneveli da SemaSfoTebeli iyo CemTvis am wignis pirveli gverdebis kiTxva, radgan maSinve mivxvdi, rom win rTuli inteleqtualuri Sroma meloda. miuxedavad imisa, rom arc iumori arsad gamqrala da arc didi mwerlebisa Tu kompozitorebis Sesaxeb dawerili Zalian saintereso epizodebi aklda wigns, is mainc Zalian Znelad wasakiTxi aRmoCnda CemTvis da amitom maleve ver davureke gurams _ ar viyavi mzad sasaubrod. mere rom mivxvdi, rom mTlianad wakiTxvas ufro didxans movundebodi, vidre Tavidan vfiqrobdi, mainc davureke da gulwrfelad vuTxari, Zalian Zlieri da saintereso teqstia, magram aucileblad meored unda wavikiTxo, rom kargad gaviazro-meTqi. Zlivs amovisunTqeo, _ miTxra, _ Torem rom ar rekavdi, vifiqre, metyvis _ es ra dagiweria, verc me vkiTxulob da verc sxva waikiTxavso. sxvisi ra mogaxsenoT da me ki didi ZalisxmeviT bolomde Cavedi da maSin mivxvdi, rom es romani mweralma imitom dawera, rom Cven, mkiTxvelebi, maradiuli wignisaken migvabrunos: am TxzulebaSi manamdec gvxvdeba bibliuri aluziebi da citatebi, wignis ukanasknel monakveTSi ki (daaxloebiT 700 gverds rom gadascdeba mkiTxveli) teqstis gageba ukve SeuZlebeli xdeba axali aRTqmis gareSe. miTiTebulia calkeuli Tavebi wminda werilidan da mkiTxveli, Tuki aqamde mihyva avtors, iZulebulia gadmoiRos wignTa wigni da gverdiT daidos _ ikiTxos paralelurad, radgan sxvagvarad guram doCanaSvilis am romanis srulyofilad aRqma aRar moxerxdeba. yvela mkiTxveli ver SeZlebs mihyves avtors am ucnaur mogzaurobaSi, romelic bolos bibliasTan dabrunebiT unda damTavrdes. maSasadame, aqac is pozicia Cans, Tavis publicistikaSi erovnul ubedurebaze saubrisas rom gamoxata erTxel jemal qarCxaZem: „es aris siyvarulis krizisi. adamians siyvarulis maragi Semoaklda da am maragis Sesavsebad is wminda zardaxSa unda gaxsnas, romelSiac weria: giyvardes moyvasi Seni, viTarca Tavi Seni“. Zalian bevri mwerali uyvarda gurams, radgan mTeli cxovreba kiTxulobda da tkbeboda „pirveli wakiTxvis bednierebiT“, magram TanamedroveTagan ori maTgani mainc gansakuTrebuli iyo misTvis: ana kalandaZe da jemal qarCxaZe. mgoni, sajarodac aqvs naTqvami, magram pirad saubarSi ara erTxel unatria _ neta rodesme „igis~ donis moTxroba damawerinao. ise uyvarda jemal qarCxaZeze, rom Tavidan verc davijere, rom ramdenime Txzuleba wakiTxuli ar hqonda da saswrafod mivutane wigni. orma

I can not say anything about the opinion of others, but I came to the end of the novel with great effort, and then I realized that this novel was written by the writer because it would take us, the readers, back to the eternal book: biblical allusions and quotations have been found in this work before, and in the last section of the book (which is about 700 pages long) it becomes impossible to understand the text without the New Testament. There are separate chapters from the Holy Scriptures and the reader, if he has followed the author so far, is forced to take the book of books and read it in parallel, because otherwise, they will not fully understand this novel by Guram Dochanashvili. Not all readers will be able to follow the author on this strange journey, which will eventually end with a return to the Bible. Therefore, here is the position that Jemal Karchkhadze once expressed in his journalism when talking about national disaster: “This is a crisis of love. Man has been deprived of the supply of love, and in order to replenish this supply, he must open a sacred chest, in which it is written: “Love your neighbor as yourself.” Guram loved many writers because he read and enjoyed “the happiness of the first reading” all his life, but at least two of his contemporaries were special to him: Ana Kalandadze and Jemal Karchkhadze. I think he has said it in public too, but in his personal conversation, he said he has wished several times to write a story like Karchkhadze’s “Igi” (Him). He loved Jemal Karchkhadze so much that at first I could not believe that he had not read some of his works and I immediately brought him the book. Two of them – “Rahat-Lukhum” and “Antonio and David” – caused such excitement that he could not hide his joy for a long time: Dochanashvili was happy that his country had such great writers.

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maTganma _ „rahaT-luxumma~ da „antonio da daviTma~ _ iseTi aRfrTovaneba gamoiwvia, rom Zalian didxans ver malavda sixaruls: doCanaSvili bednieri iyo imiT, rom mis qveyanas aseTi didi mwerlebi hyavda. misi aseTi aRtacebis fonze rogori kontrasti iyo is, rom mis Tanamedrove mwerlebs gurami ar uyvardaT! arc erT mis Sexvedras da wignis ganxilvas ar eswrebodnen mweralTa kavSirSi mokalaTebuli bobolebi _ gasagebia, ratomac _ SurdaT, axalgazrda Taobis aseTi siyvaruli. Tu ar gjeraT, erT ambavs giambobT: Zalian didi xnis win televiziiT (maSin erTaderTi iyo) gamosvlisas doCanaSvilis Semoqmedebaze saubrisas vTqvi, rom aTeuli wlebic rom gava, 70-iani wlebis qarTuli mwerlobidan ori romani mainc darCeba, rom ar daZveldeba _ „daTa TuTaSxia“ da „samoseli pirveli“-meTqi. erTi SexedviT, am uwyinarma naTqvamma ucnauri reaqcia gamoiwvia: maSindeli mTavrobisgan dafasebulma erTma qarTvelma mweralma Tavisi aRSfoTeba „literaturuli saqarTvelos~ furclebze gamoxata: axalgazrda kritikoss, etyoba, Cemi nawerebidan araferi waukiTxavs, ase uapelaciod rom aqebs guram doCanaSvils, Torem me uamravi jildo maqvs mTavrobisgan miRebuli da doCanaSvils ki _ arc erTio. cxadia, Cemi asakis Sesabamisad vupasuxe _ ironiulad da daundoblad, magram mainc ver visvenebdi, nervebi meSleboda, rom sakuTari uzneobiT dabrmavebuli Cveni „mwerlebi~ sxvis zneobriv sispetakes, Tqven warmoidgineT, ver eguebodnen! sxvam Tu ara, me mainc Zalian kargad vici, zviad gamsaxurdiadan moyolebuli (romelic, mogexsenebaT, guramis klaseli da bavSvobis megobari iyo) dRemde lamis yvela Cinovniki periodulad Txovda mas mxardaWeras. sanacvlod ministris portfelsa Tu sxva maRal Tanamdebobebs hpirdebodnen. rogor ar icnobdnen gurams! egonaT, rom raki ase uWirda materialurad, mis gadabirebas SeZlebdnen (iseTi periodic maxsovs, roca ojaxSi TveSi daaxloebiT 30 lari hqondaT). raoden ugunurebi iyvnen es ubadruki Cinovnikebi, rom imasac ver xvdebodnen _ maTgan gansxvavebiT didi maestro ar iyideboda. dRes viRas axsovs isini! „vater(po)loo“-Si besame karo eubneba kartuzo babilonias: „quCaSi rom gavaCeroT vinme gamvleli, da vkiTxoT, Tu vin iyo beThovenis dros yvelaze mZlavri kurfiursti, ase mgonia ver gipasuxebT, xolo Tu vin iyo beThoveni, Zlier naklebad mosalodnelia rom ar icodes“. asec aris _ dRes vin gaixsenebs, vis niSnavdnen guramis mier uaryofil Tanamdebobebze da vin iyo „yvelaze mZlavri kurfiursti~ guramis epoqaSi. swored im epoqaSi, romelic mis gardacvalebasTan erTad damTavrda. Zalian rTuli da mZime epoqa ki iyo, romlis drosac uamravi tragedia datrialda:

Despite his admiration, what a contrast it was that his contemporary writers did not like Guram! None of his meetings and book discussions were attended by the privileged writers of the Writers’ Union – understandably; they envied the young generation for such love. If you find it unbelievable, I will tell one story: a long time ago on a TV channel (there was only one channel) when talking about Dochanashvili’s work, I said that even if decades go by, at least two novels from Georgian literature of the 70s will not age and remain for years – “Data Tutashkhia” And “ The First Garment” – I said. At first glance, this harmless statement provoked a strange reaction: one Georgian writer, appreciated by the government of that period, expressed his indignation in the pages of “Literaturuli Sakartvelo” (Literary Georgia): "The young critic does not seem to have read anything from my writings, so he praises Guram Dochanashvili without appeal, while I have received many awards from the government and Dochanashvili – none." Of course, I answered according to my age – ironically and ruthlessly, but I still could not calm down, I was nervous that our “writers”, blinded by their own immorality, could not get used to the moral purity of others! If no one else knows, I still know very well, since Zviad Gamsakhurdia (who, as you know, was a classmate and childhood friend of Guram) to this day, almost every official has periodically asked for his support. In return, he was promised a ministerial portfolio or other high-ranking positions. How they did not know Guram! They thought that because he was in such financial difficulties, they would be able to recruit him (I

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samoqalaqo omi, saqarTvelos teritoriebis dakargva da didi maestros piradi tragedia, magram yovelive amas saocari simtkiciT uZlebda da ise moxda, rom erTxel amixsna kidec, ra aZlevda aseT Zalas, rom amdeni tkivilisTvis gaeZlo: romeliRac egvipturi xelnaweri/wyaro damisaxela, romelSic 40 mcnebaa CamoTvlili da maT Soris Cveni 10 mcnebac aris, odnav gansxvavebuli sityvieri formulirebiT. ai, swored iq, or rogor ZiriTad mcnebas Soris _ „ara kac hkla~ da „ara iparo~ _ weria Turme: tyuilubralod ar daiCivloo. anu, _ mixsnida gurami, _ adamianma ar unda iwuwunos, radgan RmerTi mowyalea da mxolod Cvens sasikeTod gvigzavnis gansacdels, oRond ara imaze met tvirTs, vidre SegviZlia vzidoT da amitom arasodes ar unda viwuwunoTo. asec cxovrobda namdvili qristiani, romelsac miuxedavad Tavisi postmodernuli enobrivi transformaciebisa (albaT yvela dameTanxmeba, rom amis didostati iyo) yvelaze mWidro kavSiri Sua saukuneebis qarTul mwerlobasTan hqonda. ver SevZleb am werilSi

also remember a period when the family had about 30 GEL per month). How foolish these stupid officials were to not even realize that unlike them, the great maestro was not for sale. Today, no one remembers them! In Water(po)loo, Besame Caro tells Cartuzo Babylonia: “If we stop a passerby on the street and ask him who was the most powerful Kurfurst during Beethoven, I do not hope for an answer, but if we ask who Beethoven was, it is very unlikely that they would not know the correct answer.” So it is – who remembers today, who was appointed to positions rejected by Guram and who was the “most powerful Kurfurst” in Guram’s era? In the era that was ended with his death. It was a very difficult era, during which many tragedies took place: the civil war, the loss of the territories of Georgia and the personal tragedy of the great maestro, but he endured all this with amazing firmness and it so happened that he even explained to me what gave him such strength to endure so much pain: he named an Egyptian manuscript that lists 40 commandments, including 10 of our commandments, with slightly different verbal formulations.

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Here, right between the two basic commandments - “Thou

am Temis ganvrcobas, magram merwmuneT, rom arc giorgi merCule da arc „vefxistyaosani~ SemTxveviT ara

shalt not kill a man” and “Thou shalt not steal” – it is written: "Do

maqvs naxsenebi. ufro metic, mova dro da gairkveva,

not complain in vain". That is, Guram told me, people should not

misi Semoqmedebis kavSiri qarTul himnografiasa

complain, because God is merciful and only sends us trials for our

da saeklesio galobasTan~ gurami xom ara mxolod

good, but not more than we can carry, and therefore we should

axalgazrdobaSi, aramed yovelTvis sulSi musikosi iyo.

never complain. This is how a true Christian lived, who, despite his

amitomac mgonia, rom misTvis yvelaze zusti epiTeti

postmodern linguistic transformations (probably everyone will agree that he was a master at this) had the closest connection with

aris „maestro~, da amasTan dakavSirebiT erTi ambavic

medieval Georgian literature. I will not be able to expand this topic

unda gavixseno:

in this letter, but believe me, I have not mentioned either Giorgi

meeqvse saavtoro skolaSi poetisa da mTargmnelis

Merchule or “The Knight in the Panther’s Skin” by chance. Moreover,

amiran svimoniSvilis (pakos) saxelobis konkursSi

the time will come when the connection of his work with Georgian

gamarjvebul bavSvebs ajildovebdnen da mogvianebiT,

hymnography and church chants will be determined – Guram

Cumad da moridebulad (rogorc sCveoda) darbazSi

was always a musician in his soul. That is why I think that the most

Semovida guram doCanaSvili. saswrafod wamoxta viRac

accurate epithet for him is “Maestro”, and I have to recall one story in

pirveli rigidan da dauTmo adgili. am dros scenaze

this regard:

konkursSi gamarjvebulma erT-erTma moswavlem gurami

The winners of the competition named after the poet and

dainaxa da yvelasTvis moulodnelad uceb aseTi rame

translator Amiran Svimonishvili (Pako) were awarded at the Sixth

Tqva: markesis mogonebebs vkiTxulobdi da is hyveba,

Author School and later, Guram Dochanashvili entered the hall

rogor dainaxa erTxel quCis meore mxares mimavali

silently and modestly (as usual). Immediately someone jumped out

heminguei da raki inglisuri ar icoda, magram Zalian

of the front row and gave up the seat. At that moment, one of the

undoda, Tavisi pativiscema da aRtaceba gamoexata,

winners of the competition saw Guram on stage and suddenly said

mTeli quCis gasagonad daiZaxa: „maestro!“ hemingueim

something like this to everyone: I was reading Marquez’s memoirs

moixeda, gauRima da muStis aweviT miesalma. axla ki am

and he recounts how he once saw Hemingway walking across the

darbazSi didi guram doCanaSvili Semovida da me verafers

street and because he did not know English but wanted to express

vambob, amitom viyvirebo. ucbad xeli aRmarTa, daiyvira

his respect and admiration, he shouted so that the whole street

_ „maestro!“ mivarda gurams da gadaexvia. ar vici, Tavi

heard: “Maestro!” Hemingway looked at him, smiled and greeted

rogor Sevikave _ saocrad gulisamaCuyebeli scena iyo.

him with a fist. And now the great Guram Dochanashvili entered this

aseTi gulwrfeli siyvaruli da aRfrTovaneba gurams

hall and I cannot say anything, so I will shout. Suddenly he raised his

arasdros moklebia da, rogorc Cans, mas meti arc araferi undoda. is sul cdilobda Tavisi SemoqmedebiTa Tu Cveni sazogadoeba, rom adamiani am qveynad siyvarulisTvis siZulvilisTvis. amitom am werilis bolos misi erT-erTi Sedevris finali unda gavixseno. moTxrobaSi miTologiuri personaJi skironi sul imas wuxs, rom siyvaruli ar arsebobs, anu cxovrebas azri ara aqvs da amitom

not know how I restrained myself – it was a surprisingly emotional scene.

sajaro Sexvedrebisas naTqvami sityviT daerwmunebina modis da ara sxvebis salanZRavad _ ara Surisa da

hand, shouted – “Maestro!” He ran to Guram and hugged him. I do

Guram has never lacked such sincere love and veneration, and it seems he wanted nothing more. He always endeavored to convince our society through his brilliant works or through his public speeches, that man is born for love and not for insulting others – not for envy and hatred. So at the end of this letter, I have to recall the end of one of his masterpieces. The mythological character Skiron in the story is all worried that there is no love, life has no meaning and therefore it

mniSvneloba ara aqvs, rodis moklavs mas Tezevsi _

does not matter when Theseus kills him – what is the meaning of a

ra azri aqvs usiyvarulo yofas? am teqstSi mudmivad

loveless life? This text constantly includes the author’s monologues

CarTulia avtoris monologebi uebro ana manianis niWis

in praise of the incomparable talent of Anna Manian, and even after

saqebrad da skironis sikvdilis merec avtori Tavis

Skiron’s death, the author addresses his favorite actress. This story

sayvarel msaxiobs mimarTavs. es moTxroba am sityvebiT

ends with these words:

mTavrdeba, romliTac dRes mec davasruleb:

“A very valuable woman, great Signora Anna, Magnani ... Love exists “

„yovlad sasargeblo qalbatono, dido seniora anna,

Transalted by Natia Asatiani

maniani... _ siyvaruli aris.“

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akaki xoStaria oTar janeliZe

AKAKI KHOSHTARIA OTAR JANELIDZE

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mis gamo, rom kapitalizmi „warmoebis saSualebebze kerZo sakuTrebasa da daqiravebuli Sromis eqsploatacias“ efuZneba, sabWoTa sinamdvileSi igi mxolod uaryofiTi konteqstiT aRiqmeboda. Sesabamisad, cneba „kapitalistsac“ ise hqonda reputacia Selaxuli, am terminiT visime moxsenieba marto Seuracxmyofeli ki ar iyo, aramed represirebisaTvis mis pirdapir dasmenasac niSnavda. sabWouri ganmartebiT, kapitalisti ewodeboda „gabatonebuli klasis warmomadgenels, kapitalis mflobels, romelic yvlefs daqiravebul muSebs“ da araferi iTqmoda imaze, rom kapitalisti aris gamWriaxi gonebis, Sromismoyvare, gabeduli, riskiani adamiani, _ warmatebuli mewarme, komersanti, biznesmeni, romelic Tavisi qonebis nawils qvelmoqmedebasa da mecenatobas axmars. swored aseTi tipis adamiani iyo CvenSi didi xnis ganmavlobaSi usamarTlod miviwyebuli akaki xoStaria - mcirericxovani qarTuli burJuaziis TvalsaCino warmomadgeneli da saxelovani qvelmoqmedi. zurab avaliSvilis sityviT, igi iyo „saqmis kaci, didis iniciativiT da „amerikulis unariT“.

ecause capitalism is based on “the exploitation of private property and labor for production purposes”, it was only perceived in a negative context in the Soviet Union. Therefore, the term “capitalist” had such a horrible reputation, that it wasn’t only considered offensive to say it to someone, but meant that this person was directly at risk of becoming a victim of soviet repressions. According to the soviet understanding, the term “capitalist” applied to “representatives of the ruling class, owners of capital, who exploit workers”, and nothing was ever said about the fact that capitalists are sharp, industrious, daring, risk-taking individuals – successful manufacturers, traders, businessmen... who dedicated part of their wealth to charity and patronage. This is precisely the kind of person that our long and unjustly forgotten Akaki Khoshtaria was – a distinguished representative of the scanty Georgian bourgeoisie and a renowned philanthropist. As Zurab Avalishvili put it, he was “a man of work, with great initiative, and with “American-like skills”. Akaki Khoshtaria was born in 1873 in Samegrelo, in the village Sujuna. His father, ecclesiast Methode Khoshtaria, was a regional governor for the ruler of the Samegrelo region Davit Dadiani, while his mother Vardiko Avaliani was a housewife. After finishing school, Akaki mastered the profession of gardener-decorator at the Gardening and Winemaking Institute in Nikita, near Yalta. In the

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akaki xoStaria 1873 wels samegreloSi, sofel sujunaSi daibada. misi mama, saeklesio aznauri meTode xoStaria samegrelos mTavris daviT dadianis mouravad msaxurobda, deda _ vardiko avaliani ki diasaxlisi iyo. saskolo ganaTlebis miRebis Semdeg, akaki ialtis maxloblad, nikitis mebaReobisa da meRvineobis saswavlebelSi mebaRedekoratoris profesias daeufla. 1898 wlis dasawyisSi igi baTumis qalaqis Tavs luka asaTians baTumSi miuwvevia da mebaRed dauniSnavs. baTumis bulvarSi „kargi jiSis xeebis gaSenebisaTvis“ axalgazrda dekoratori 1901 wels kavkasiis samrewvelo da sasoflo-sameurneo gamofenaze, romelic TbilisSi gaimarTa, mcire oqros medliT daajildoves. Tavisi wvlili Seitana man gagraSi, princ aleqsandr oldenburgis mamulSi subtropikuli baRis gaSenebaSic. profesionali mebaRe-dekoratoris bedi erTma bednierma SemTxvevam Secvala, romelmac igi navTobis magnati da TvalsaCino komersanti gaxada. gadmocemis Tanaxmad, akaki xoStariasa da mis erT megobars foTidan odesaSi savaWro gemiT sarealizaciod navTi wauRiaT. amovardnil qariSxals gemi TurqeTSi gautania, sadac navTi oqros fasad gauyidiaT. akakim gadawyvita fuli navTobis mrewvelobaSi Caedo, risTvisac baqos miaSura. aq man Camoayaliba kompania saxelwodebiT „rusul-sparsuli navTobis amxanagoba“ (rupento). es iyo yvelaze didi da finansurad yvelaze Zlieri firma, rac ki qarTvelebs odesme SeuqmniaT, _ werda mis Sesaxeb erTi Tanamedrove. male rupentos saqmianobam baqos garda CrdiloeT sparseTic moicva. 1913 wels akaki xoStariam qveynis CrdiloeTi provinciebis miwaTmflobelebTan 99-wliani kontraqti gaaforma. mrewvelma aq tyis eqspluataciis mizniT daafuZna kompania „perslesi“, romlis kapitalic ramdenime milion oqros maneTs Seadgenda. 1916 wlisaTvis akaki xoStariam, aseve, CrdiloeT sparseTis provinciebSi _ gilanSi, mazandaransa da astrabadSi 70 wliani vadiT ramdenime koncesia Seisyida. es koncesia saerTaSoriso navTobindustriis istoriaSi cnobilia, rogorc „xoStarias koncesia“ da igi Setanilia im koncesiebis CamonaTvalSi, „romlebmac Secvales msoflio“. akaki xoStarias biznessaqmianoba sparseTSi mxolod navTobiT ar Semoifargleboda. misi koncesiebi qveynis CrdiloeT regionSi sxva wiaRiseulis mopovebasac iTvaliswinebda. qarTvel mrewvels sparseTSi monopolia hqonda xe-tyis, sapnis, brinjis warmoebaze, flobda Tevzis sarewebs, vaWrobda matyliT, abreSumiT da CarTuli iyo xizilalis warmoebaSi. xoStarias sakuTrebaSi iyo aseve kaspiis zRvispira qalaq enzelis eleqtroqselic. qarTveli mrewveli iyo im drois farTod cnobili safinanso struqturis _ rusul-

beginning of 1898, the ruler of the city of Batumi Luka Asatiani invited him in Batumi as a head gardener. For “growing good species of trees” on the Batumi Boulevard, the young decorator was awarded a small gold medal at the Caucasus Industrial and Agricultural Exhibition in Tbilisi in 1901. He also participated in the creation of a subtropical garden on the lands of Duke Alexander of Oldenburg in Gagra. A delightful coincidence transformed the fate of the professional gardener and decorator, and turned him into an oil magnate and prominent businessman. According to oral tradition, Akaki Khoshtaria and one of his friends had taken oil from Poti to Odessa by ship. A sudden storm took the ship to Turkey instead, where they managed to sell the oil at a very high price. Akaki decided to reinvest this money in the oil industry, for which he traveled to Baku. There, he founded a company named ‘RussoPersian Oil Producing and Trading Company’ (Rupento). One of his contemporaries wrote that this was one of the largest and financially strongest companies ever founded by a Georgian.

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sparsuli bankis erT-erTi msxvili aqcioneri. sparseTSi Sahis mTavrobasa da ruseTis qveSevrdomTa yvela garigebas, Seexeboda igi koncesiebsa Tu mSeneblobis, vaWrobisa da mrewvelobis sxva mniSvnelovan proeqtebs, es banki awarmoebda. yovelive xsenebulis wyalobiT, akaki xoStaria axlo kavSirSi iyo sparseTis rogorc saqmiani da politikuri wreebis warmomadgenlebTan, ise umaRles xelisuflebasTanac araerTi wlis ganmavlobaSi. qarTveli mrewvelis sparseTis SahebTan urTierTobas unikaluric SeiZleba ewodos. man Tavisi poziciebi da gavlenebi Sahebis dinastiuri cvlis viTarebaSic ki SeinarCuna. cnobilia rom yajarTa dinastiis ukanaskneli warmomadgeneli ahmad Sahi, romelTanac daaxloebuli iyo xoStaria, 1923 wels saxelmwifo gadatrialebis gziT daamxo momavalma Sahma reza fehlevim. akaki xoStarias zegavlena sparseTis ekonomikur da politikur cxovrebaze am garemoebiTac ar Sesustebula. piriqiT, _ kidev ufro gaizarda. ioseb imedaSvilis Tanaxmad, akaki

Soon, Rupento’s activities spread to northern Persia. In 1913, Akaki Khoshtaria signed a 99-year contract with the Northern provinces of Persia. With the objective of exploiting forests there, the industrial figure founded the company ‘Persles’, the capital of which amounted to several million “golden roubles”. From 1916, Akaki Khoshtaria purchased 70-year licenses for a number of concessions, again in the Northern provinces of Persia, namely in Gilan, Mazandaran, and Estarabad. These concessions are known in the international oil industry as ‘Khoshtaria’s Concessions’, and have been included in the list of the “concessions that have changed the world”. Akaki Khoshtaria’s business ventures in Persia were not limited to oil. His concessions in the northern regions of the country also included the extraction of other materials. The Georgian industrial figure had a monopoly in the production of wood, soap, and rice, owned fisheries, was trading wool and silk, and was involved in the production of caviar. Khoshtaria also owned the electric station of the city Anzali, at the shore of the Caspian Sea. He was one of the largest

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xoStaria sparseTis Sahisagan mze-lomis pirveli xarisxis ordeniTac yofila dajildoebuli. saqarTvelos saxelmwifoebrivi damoukideblobis aRdgenis Semdgom qarTvelma mrewvelma garkveuli investicia axlad Seqmnili demokratiuli respublikis ekonomikaSic Cado. jer kidev 1918 wlis seqtemberSi man saxelmwifosagan mdinare rionze wyalsacavis, hesisa da gadamcemi xazebis mSeneblobisaTvis koncesia miiRo. misive TaosnobiT Camoyalibda „sazRvao da samdinaro sanaosnosatransporto saaqcio sazogadoeba „fazisi“, xolo 1919 wels Seiqmna „savaWro-samrewvelo palata“ da dafuZnda „Sinagan da saerTaSoriso vaWrobis qarTuli saaqcionero sazogadoeba“. akaki xoStariam TbilisSi gaxsna sapnis, meqanikuri da metalurgiuli qarxnebi, samiwaTmoqmedo iaraRebis fabrika da sxva ramdenime mcire sawarmoc. manve SeZlo saqarTvelodan germaniasa da daniaSi Tambaqos gatana, gegmavda WiaTuris marganecis warmoebisa da

shareholders of the then-famous financial structure known as the Russo-Persian Bank. This bank was producing every agreement of the Shah’s government or Russia’s subjects, be they about concessions or construction, trade or manufacture – every important project was supported by this bank. Because of all this, Akaki Khoshtaria had close relationships with both business figures and politicians in Persia, as well as with the highest authorities of the country, for several years. The relationship of the Georgian businessman with Persian Shahs could even be called unique. He managed to maintain his position and influence even after the changes in the dynasty of the Shahs. It is well known that Ahmad Shah Qajar, the last representative of the Qajar dynasty, with whom Khoshtaria was close, was replaced by Shah Reza Pahlavi through a coup in 1923. Akaki Khoshtaria’s influence on the economic and political life of Persia didn’t end with this event. On the contrary – it increased. According to Ioseb Imedashvili, Akaki Khoshtaria was even awarded the Order of the Lion and the Sun by the Shah of Persia. After Georgia regained its independence, the Georgian businessman invested in the economy of the newly created democratic republic. As early as September 1918, the State provided him the concessions for the construction of a water reservoir and hydroelectric station on river Rioni. He was also behind the establishment of ‘Sea and River Maritime-Transportation Joint-Stock Company Phasis’ , and in 1919, the Chamber of Commerce and Industry and Internal and International Georgian Stock Society. Akaki Khoshtaria opened soap, mechanical, metallurgical, agricultural tools’ factories in Tbilisi, as well as several smaller workshops. He also managed to export tobacco from Georgia to Germany and Denmark, was planning to rearrange the production and export process of Chiatura’s manganese, and financed research about the forests and oil reserves of the country. Through an intermediary company, Akaki Khoshtaria purchased 15 light automobiles from the Ford company in New York for the first Republic of Georgia, and also ordered two ships from America, though they could not enter Georgia in time. Interestingly, Akaki Khoshtaria handed David Sarajishvili’s former house, which he had purchased and renovated, to Oliver Wardrop, the Chief Commissioner of Great Britain to Georgia. In January 1921, Akaki Khoshtaria brought in 10 million rubles in the Defense Fund of Georgia. After the occupation of Georgia, on the 28th of February 1921, the Bolshevik revolutionary committee (“Revkom”) stripped Akaki Khoshtaria from his house in Tbilisi, and handed it to Georgian writers and artists. Khoshtaria’s reaction to this decision by the Revkom is not known, but it is widely believed that the businessman and philanthropist handed this house to Georgian artists himself. Who knows, maybe he did leave it to them in his will, but regardless, it is a fact that the decision to change the ownership of this house without asking the owner was taken by the Bolshevik authorities in power. Following a resolution passed by the People’s Commissariat for

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eqsportirebis saqmis evropulad gamarTvas, daafinansa winaswari kvlevebi qveyanaSi satyeo saqmisa Tu navTobis moZiebis mimarTulebiT da sxv. Suamavali firmis meSveobiT, akaki xoStariam saqarTvelos pirveli respublikis saWiroebisaTvis niu-iorkSi, „fordis“ kompaniisagan SeiZina 15 msubuqi avtomobili, amerikaSive daukveTa ori gemi, Tumca maTi Semosvla saqarTveloSi veRar moeswro. sainteresoa, rom akaki xoStariam TbilisSi SeZenili daviT sarajiSvilis yofili saxli, romelic gadaakeTa da axleburad moawyo, sacxovreblad dauTmo saqarTveloSi myof didi britaneTis umaRles komisars oliver uordrops. 1921 wlis ianvarSi akaki xoStariam saqarTvelos Tavdacvis fondSi 10 milioni maneTi Seitana. saqarTvelos okupaciis Semdeg, 1921 wlis 28 Tebervals, bolSevikurma revkomma akaki xoStarias TbilisSi misi kuTvnili saxli CamoarTva da igi qarTvel mwerlebsa da xelovanebs gadasca. ar aris cnobili xoStarias reaqcia revkomis am gadawyvetilebaze, magram sazogadoebaSi gavrcelebulia Tvalsazrisi, rom es saxli mrewvelma da qvelmoqmedma qarTvel xelovanebs TviTon usaxsovra. vin icis, anderZiT SeiZleba asec momxdariyo, magram, faqtia, rom gadawyvetileba saxlis gasxvisebis Sesaxeb, mesakuTris daukiTxavad, saqarTvelos bolSevikurma xelisuflebam miiRo. saqarTvelos ssr saxlxo meurneobis umaRlesi sabWos dadgenilebiT, nacionalizebul iqna akaki xoStarias meqnikuri qarxana, aseve, sasoflo-sameurneo manqanebisa da mowyobilobebis fabrika. ruseTSi sabWoTa wyobilebis damyarebiT mrewvelis mdgomareoba sparseTSic garTulda: man Tavisi 55 procentiani wili britanul-sparsul navTobis kompanias „North Persian Oils Limited“-is dauTmo. ruseT-sparseTis 1921 wels xelSekrulebis Tanaxmad ki, sparseTSi ruseTis moqalaqeebs, maT Soris, xoStarias koncesiebi, bankebi da sxva qoneba CamoarTves da Sahis xelisuflebas daubrunes. kremlma amgvari politika sparseTze Tavisi gavlenis saSualebad gamoiyena. 1921-1923 wlebSi akaki xoStariam konstantinopolSi gadainacvla. aq funqcionirebda misi rusul-sparsuli bankis ganyofileba, romelsac ivane zurabiSvili uZRveboda. am periodSi xoStariam samSoblodan bolSevikur reJims gaqceul araerT Tanamemamules gaumarTa xeli, maT Soris erovnul-demokratiuli partiis liders spiridon kedias, romelic 1923 wlis martSi sabWoTa xelisuflebam saqarTvelodan gaaZeva. cnobilia, rodesac 1923 wels generl giorgi mazniaSvils sasikvdilo ganaCeni saqarTvelodan xuTwliani gaZevebiT Seucvales, igi sparseTSi akaki xoStarias imedad gaemgzavra da arc Semcdara. miuxedavad imisa, rom TviTonac did gaWirvebas ganicdida, akakim

Agriculture of the Georgian SSR, Akaki Khoshtaria’s mechanical factory, as well as his factory of agricultural machines and tools, were seized and nationalized. With the establishment of the soviet regime in Russia, the businessman’s situation worsened in Persia too: he sold his 55% shares to the British-Persian oil company ‘North Persian Oils Limited’. And following the Russo-Persian 1921 agreement, the concessions, banks and other assets of Russian citizens, including Khoshtaria, were seized and returned to the Shah. The Kremlin used this kind of policy to gain influence of Persia. In the years 1921-1923, Akaki Khoshtaria moved to Constantinople, where a branch of his Russo-Persian bank was functioning, under the leadership of Ivane Zurabishvili. During that period, Khoshtaria helped many compatriots fleeing the Bolshevik regime, including the leader of the National Democratic Party Spiridon Kedia, who was expelled from Georgia by the soviet regime in 1923. It is well known that when the death sentence of general Giorgi Mazniashvili was changed to a five-year exile from Georgia in 1923, he chose to travel to Persia due to Akaki Khoshtaria, and he wasn’t mistaken. Despite the fact that he was in great difficulty, Akaki “didn’t leave me without solace, and the whole time I spent in Persia, he paid all my hotel bills” – Griogi Mazniashvili would later write.

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„unugeSod ar damtova da rac xani sparseTSi davrCi, ixdida Cems yovelgvar xarjebs sastumroSi“, _ werda mogvianebiT giorgi mazniaSvili. 1921-1922 wlebSi, volgispireTSi didi SimSilobis periodSi, akaki xoStaria sparseTidan baqos gavliT purs gzavnida ruseTSi. imave wlebSi mZime viTareba iyo saqarTveloSic, sadac materialuri gaWirveba sazogadoebis yvela fenas, maT Soris eklesiasac Seexo. dekanoz nikita TalaqvaZis mogonebebidan irkveva, rom akaki xoStarias misTvis da saqarTvelos kaTolikospatriarq ambrosisaTvis tomrebiT TeTri fqvili da Saqari gamougzavnia. mas Semdeg, rac sabWoTa ruseTSi axali ekonomikuri politika amoqmedda, akaki xoStariam bankSi pirvandeli uflebebi aRidgina, male ki mis faqtobriv mflobelad mogvevlina erTguli adamianis, TeiranSi sabWoTa savaWro warmomadgenlis bolSevik budu mdivnis meSveobiT. sabWoeTis mxridan sparseTTan TiTqmis yvela komerciuli operacia am bankis gavliT xorcieldeboda. emigraciaSi moRvawe rusi Jurnalisti v. nellini akaki xoStarias „sparseTis namdvil, magram ugvirgvino Sahs“ uwodebda. sxvadasxva wyaros Tanaxmad, akaki xoStaria sabWoTa mTavrobis kuluarebSic budu mdivanma Seiyvana. mrewvels man gaacno sagareo vaWrobis saxalxo komisari leonid krasini, koncesiebis mTavari komitetis xelmZRvaneli da ssr kavSiris saxalxo meurneobis umaRlesi sabWos Tavmjdomaris moadile giorgi piatakovi da sxva maRali Tanamdebobis pirebi. amiT aixsneba, rom rkp (b) centraluri komitetis politbiurom 1923 wlis 1 marts specialurad imsjela moqalaqe akaki xoStariasTan TanamSromlobis sakiTxze da mizanSewonilad miiCnia masTan xelSekrulebis dadeba. 1923 wels (zogierTi cnobiT, 1925 wels) akaki xoStariam daibruna navTobis eqspluataciis Tavisi 70 wliani koncesia sparseTis qalaq semnanSi da daaarsa kompania „qavire hurian“. magram

In the years 1921-1922, during the great famine period in the Volga region, Akaki Khoshtaria was sending bread to Russia from Persia through Baku. During the same years, the situation was very difficult in Georgia too, where destitution hit all social layers, including the Church. In archpriest Nikita Talakvadze’s memoirs, one can read that Akaki Khostharia sent bags and bags of flour and sugar to the archpriest and to Catholicos-Patriarch Ambrosius. After a new economic policy was established in soviet Russia, Akaki Khoshtaria restored his rights and assets at the bank, and would soon become its de facto owner thanks to the loyal Bolshevik Budu Mdivani, who was the soviet trade representative in Tehran. Almost every commercial operation from the soviet side to Persia was taking place through this bank. Emigrant Russian journalist V. Nellin used to call Akaki Khoshtaria “Persia’s Shah without a crown”. According to several sources, it is also Budu Mdivani who brought Akaki Khoshtaria behind the soviet political scenes. He got the businessman acquainted with the People’s Commissar for Foreing Trade Leonid Krasin, as well as with the chairman of the Main Concession Committee of the USSR Georgy Pyatakov and other high-ranking officials. This could explain that on the 1st of March 1923, the Politburo of the Central Committee of the Communist Party had a special session to discuss collaboration with citizen Akaki Khoshtaria, and deemed it relevant to enter into an agreement with him. In 1923 (according to some accounts, in 1925), Akaki Khoshtaria regained his oil exploitation with its 70-year license in the Persian city of Semnan, and founded the company ‘Karive Hurian’. But the Bolshevik regime didn’t spare anything to anyone. Soviet authorities first became a shareholder of the Georgian businessman, and then forced him to cede his concessions. Khoshtaria wouldn’t have survived the repressions to come if he hadn’t left Persia for France. Akaki’s brother Giorgi and nephews Akaki and Methode fell victim to political repressions in Georgia. It is well known that the “Nationalist-Uklonists” at the head of the communist party in Georgia (Budu Mdivani, Sergo Kavtaradze, Mikheil Okujava, Kote Tsintsadze, and others) have attempted to use Khoshtaria’s capabilities and foreign connections, which authorities would later use to discredit them. Among the accusations towards the Nationalist-Uklonists, one could read: “Under the direction of reckless capitalist opportunist Khoshtaria, Nationalist-Uklonists were persistently trying to open a private bank in Tbilisi or in Batumi. This bank would have been a branch of a bank in the Ottoman Empire – in reality, a branch of English and French capitals.” Akaki Khoshtaria passed in February 1931. They buried him in the famous Père Lachaise cemetery in Paris. The funeral of the great businessman and philanthropist was attended by the whole Georgian Society living in France and representatives of the Caucasian emigration. A note about Khoshtaria’s death also arrived in Georgia. The telegram read the following words: “Georgia, Abasha, village Sujuna. Homeland, Akaki has passed”.

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bolSevikurma reJimma dandoba ar icoda. sabWoTa kavSiris mTavroba jer mowiled gauxda qarTvel mrewvels, misgan firmanebi da aqciebis sakontrolo paketi SeiZina, xolo Semdeg aiZula, xeli aeRo Tavis koncesiebze. xoStaria mosalodnel represiebsac ver gadaurCeboda, rom sparseTi ar daetovebina da sacxovreblad safrangeTSi ar gadasuliyo. saqarTveloSi politikuri represiebs emsxverpla akakis Zma giorgi da ZmisSvilebi akaki da meTode xoStariebi. cnobilia, rom xoStarias SesaZleblobebisa da ucxouri kavSirebis gamoyenebas Seecadnen saqarTvelos komunisturi partiis xelmZRvanelobaSi myofi e.w. nacional-uklonistebi (budu mdivani, sergo qavTaraZe, mixeil okujava, kote cincaZe da sxv.), rac mogvianebiT maTi diskretizaciisaTvis gamoiyenes. nacionaluklonistebis mimarT wayenebul braldebaTa Soris aRniSnulia: „kapitalisti avantiuristis xoStarias winadadebiT, nacional-uklonistebi daJinebiT cdilobdnen kerZo bankis gaxsnas TbilisSi an baTumSi. es banki unda yofiliyo osmaleTis bankis filiali, sinamdvileSi, inglis-safrangeTis kapitalis filiali“. akaki xoStaria 1931 wlis TebervalSi gardaicvala. dakrZales parizSi, cnobil per-laSezis sasaflaoze. did mrewvelsa da qvelmoqmeds safrangeTis mTeli qarTuli sazogadoeba da kavkasiuri emigraciis warmomadgenlebi gamoeTxovnen. akaki xoStarias gardacvalebis cnobam saqarTveloSic CamoaRwia. depeSa aseTi Sinaarsis yofila: „saqarTvelo, abaSa, sofeli sujuna. samSoblo, akaki gardaicvala“. akakis meuRle minadora Turqia-xoStaria ufro adre, 1924 wlis zafxulSi sparseTSi gardaicvala. igi Teiranis

Akaki’s spouse Minadora Turkia-Khoshtaria left this world earlier, in

dulabis sasaflaos qarTul seqtorSia dakrZaluli. aq miwis nakveTi akaki xoStariam SeiZina da meuRlis saflavze aagebina akldama, romelic „arqiteqturis iSviaT nimuSad

the Summer of 1924, in Persia. She is buried in the Georgian sector of the Doulab cemetery in Tehran. Akaki Khoshtaria bought a piece of land there, and constructed a mausoleum for her, which is considered

miiCneva“.

a “rare specimen of architecture”.

akaki da minadora xoStariebs Svili ar hyoliaT. maT

Akaki and Minadora Khoshtaria did not have children. They

iSviles gogona, saxelad musinka, romelic parizSi gaizarda da aqve mixeil bagration-muxranelze gaTxovda.

adopted a girl called Musinka, who grew up in Paris and married

maTi STamomavlebi dResac safrangeTSi cxovroben.

Mikhail Bagration-Mukhransky. Their descendants still live in France. Akaki Khoshtaria was also a great philanthropist. He was

akaki xoStaria didi qvelmoqmedic iyo. igi mxarSi edga saqarTvelos saistorio da saeTnografio sazogadoebas,

supporting Georgia’s History and Ethnography Society, the Georgian

avtokefaliaaRdgenil saqarTvelos eklesias, Tbilisis

Church, which had regained its autocephaly, and the University of

universitets. misi finansuri mxardaWeriTac daarsda

Tbilisi. It is also with his financial support that the newspaper ‘Georgia’

gazeTi „saqarTvelo“; xoStarias stipendiiT sargeblobda

was founded; several Georgian students studying in European

evropis universitetebSi moswavle araerTi qarTveli

universities were funded by Khoshtaria. In France, he purchased the

studenti. man safrangeTSi SeiZina maSin axalgazrda qarTveli mxatvris lado gudiaSvilisa da cnobili frangi kubistis andre lotis ferweruli tiloebi, romlebic saqarTvelos xelovnebis muzeums uZRvna da mravali sxva.

works of young Georgian painter Lado Gudiashvili and famous French cubist painter André Lhote, which he offered to the Museum of Arts of Georgia.

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batoni anzor erqomaiSvili erTaderTia Cvens stumrebs Soris, romelsac mxolod saxeliTa da gvariT warvadgenT. albaT, ar arsebobs tituli da posti, romelic srulad asaxavs misi Rvawlis Sinaarssa da mniSvnelobas. rodesac batoni anzori umaRlesSi Casabareblad soflidan TbilisSi Camovida, aq arc xalxur simRerebs mRerodnen da arc qarTuli sagaloblebis arsebobis Sesaxeb icodnen. soflebSic xalxuri simRerebis da sagaloblebis mcodne xalxi nel-nela zeciur saqarTvelos uerTdeboda. batonma anzorma Tavisi cxovreba xalxuri simReris gadarCenas miuZRvna da mizansac miaRwia. ra da rogor moxda, amas interviuSi waikiTxavT. yvelam viciT, rom anzor erqomaiSvili didi moRvawea, magram mTeli guliT minda, masTan interviu am interesiT waikiTxoT... piradad me gaocebuli var, ra SeuZlia erTi adamianis mizanswrafvas da Tavdadebul Sromas; rogori cvlileba SeiZleba moxdes erTi adamianis, erTi Taobis xelSi... Cveni saubari 2019 wlis 9 aprils Sedga. samwuxarod adamiani, romelmac epoqa Seqmna, batoni anzor erqomaiSvili 2021 wlis 3 aprils mTawmindas mivabareT...

dRes SemiZlia vTqva, rom xalxuri simRera gadarCa

TODAY, I CAN SAY THAT FOLK MUSIC HAS SURVIVED

Mr. Anzor Erkomaishvili is the only interviewee we had to whom we refer only with his first and last name, because there is perhaps no title or position that fully illustrates the essence and importance of his accomplishments. When Mr. Anzor came from his village to Tbilisi in order to start his higher education, they weren’t singing folk songs and didn’t know anything about Georgian chants either in the capital. As for the people who had the knowledge of folk songs and chants in villages, their generation was on the verge of leaving this world for another. Mr. Anzor dedicated his whole life to the preservation of folk singing, and he managed to achieve his goal. You will read how all this happened in this article. We all know that Anzor Erkomaishvili is a gread public figure, but I would like to wholeheartedly suggest to read this article carefully… Personally, I am amazed at what the purposefulness and dedication of a person can do, and at how great a change can take place in the time of one generation… Unfortunately, Mr. Anzor Erkomaishvili, a man who created a whole new epoch, was bid farewell on Mtatsminda on the 3rd of April… Ia Antadze

ia anTaZe

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_ batono anzor, zogjer xdeba, rom adamianTan saubrob da TiTqos mze Semodis SenSi, Signidan naTdebi. vin iyo is, vinc msgavsi ram gagrZnobinaT? _ konkretulad ver vityvi. aseTi bevri adamiania, romelTan saubrisas bednieri xar imitom, rom ici, vis esaubrebi da marTla sinaTle Semodis SenSi. magaliTad, axlaxan Sevxvdi rezo gabriaZes, romelic unikaluri pirovnebaa. aseT adamianTan Sexvedra didi pativia CemTvis.

– Mr Anzor, sometimes, people can fill others with light by just talking to them. Who are the persons who make you feel that way? – I couldn’t say someone specific. There are many such persons, with whom you take pleasure talking, because you know to whom you are talking, and you really become filled with light. For instance, I recently met Rezo Gabriadze, who is a unique person. It is a great honor to meet such an individual for me.

_ is gancda Tu gaqvT, rom adamianebi Tqven gverdiT ufro bednierebi xdebian? _ ar vici, ramdenad gavabedniere Cemi Tanamosaubreebi, magram keTil damokidebulebas namdvilad bevrisgan vgrZnob.

– Do you have the feeling that people become happier when they are around you? – I don’t know to what extent I made my interlocutors happier, but I can say that I feel a good attitude towards me from many.

_ rodesac bavSvebisTvis simReris swavleba gadawyviteT, Tavidan sakmaod gagiWirdaT msurvelebis Sekreba. magram Semdeg „marTve“ iseTi popularuli gaxda, rom ansambli xalxuri simReris Seswavlis msurvelebs veRar itevda. im bavSvebisganac ar gigrZvniaT, rom simRerasTan erTad, bedniereba Sevida maTSi? _ rogor ara. im periodSi xalxuri simRera saerTod ar iyo popularuli, gansakuTrebiT, bavSvebs Soris. Cemi mizanic iyo, movaleobac da didi survilic, rom bavSvebs simRera eswavlaT da SeeyvarebinaT. mindoda, rom axalgazrdobas emRera, vinaidan, Cemi Rrma rwmeniT, Tu ginda, simRera Seinaxo, is bavSvebs unda aswavlo. _ imis miuxedavad, ra damsaxureba hqondaT Cvens winaprebs qarTuli xalxuri simReris mimarT, ase moxda, rom yvelaze meti Tqven SeZeliT. batonma gia yanCelma Tqven Sesaxeb Tqva: „anzor erqomaiSvili iyo, aris da rCeba Tavis sferoSi patriarqad.“ ra Tvisebebma an ra garemoebebma SegiwyoT xeli, rom aseT maRal miznebs miaRwieT? _ Cemi Rrma rwmeniT, adamiani unda emsaxuros im saqmes, rac mas xelewifeba. 300 wlis istoria aqvs Cems gvars _ musikaluri gvaria da musikam gansazRvra Cveni mimarTuleba. CemTvis magaliTi iyo babua _ artem erqomaiSvili da Cemi winapari gigo erqomaiSvili, romlebmac yvelaferi musikas Seswires, musikas moarges TavianTi cxovreba. me im periodSi momixda asparezze gamosvla, roca xalxuri simRera naklebad popularuli iyo. ara imitom, rom xalxs ar uyvarda. Zvelebi isev kargad mRerodnen, magram komunisturi ideologiis mZime periodSi bavSvebi da axalgazrdebi naklebad swavlobdnen xalxur simReras. maSin modaSi iyo olimpiadebi da SeTxzuli simRerebi partiaze, mTavrobaze, leninze, stalinze _ am simRerebze izrdeboda Taobebi. me vgrZnobdi, rom es ar iyo swori. gansakuTrebiT mindoda da vxvdebodi, rom swored axalgazrdebs unda eswavlaT xalxuri simRera. amitom, 70-ian wlebSi, roca „rusTavi“

– When you started teaching singing to children, at first, it was difficult to gather volunteers. But later, ‘Martve’ (“Offspring”) became so popular that the ensemble couldn’t accommodate all the people who wanted to learn folk singing. I believe you must have felt the happiness experienced by these children when teaching them of how to sing? – Of course. At that time, folk singing wasn’t popular at all, especially among children. My goal, duty, and greatest wish was for children to learn and fall in love with singing. I wanted the youth to sing, because I deeply believe that if you want to preserve a song, you should teach it to children. – Despite all the worthy deeds of our ancestors for Georgian folk singing, you did more than anyone. Mr. Giya Kancheli once said about you: “Anzor Erkomaishvili was, is, and remains the Patriarch in his field”. What personality trait, or what particular events helped you achieve such great deeds? – I deeply believe that people should serve the activity they are endowed with. My family has a three-centuries-long history in music, and music has shaped its life. My grandfather Artem Erkomaishvili and ancestor Gigo Erkomaishvili were role models for me – they gave their all and dedicated their whole lives to music. During my time, folk singing was less popular. Not because people didn’t like it. Old people still sang well, but because of the difficult period of communist ideology, children and young people were studying folk singing less and less. At that time, soviet art festivals and songs about the party, authorities, Lenin, or Stalin were more fashionable – generations were raised on those songs. I could feel that this wasn’t right. I was particularly aware of the fact that young people should learn folk singing. Because in the 1970s, when ‘Rustavi’ was already a notable ensemble, I decided to create a children’s ensemble. I wanted children to fall in love with folk singing. – So you had this goal in mind from the start, to preserve folk singing? – Yes. I can even say that from everything I did (even if it wasn’t much), the most important one was the children’s ensemble ‘Martve’

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– not because of its level and different manner of performing, but simply as a future for folk singing.

ukve gamoCenili ansambli iyo, gadavwyvite, bavSvTa gundi Semeqmna. mindoda, bavSvebisTvis Segveyvarebina xalxuri simRera. _ anu Tqven Tavidanve es mizani daisaxeT imisTvis, rom xalxuri simRera gadagerCinaT? _ diax, ufro mets getyviT. Tu rame gavakeTe (ver vityvi, rom bevri gavakeTe), pirvel adgilze dgas „marTve“, bavSvTa ansambli _ ara Tavisi saSemsruleblo doniT da Sesrulebis gansxvavebuli maneriT, aramed „marTve“, rogorc simReris momavali. _ „rusTavze“ win ayenebT? _ „rusTavze“ win, rasakvirvelia. „rusTavi“ erT-erTi gamoCenili ansamblia. 50 wlisaa da am xnis ganmavlobaSi Zalian didi saqme gaakeTa qarTuli xalxuri simReris aRdgena-popularizaciisTvis. 80-ze met qveyanaSi gaitana qarTuli simRera. Zalian bevri varianti aRadgina, 900 simRera Cawera da gamosca. magram amaze meti, me mgoni, aris is, rom dRes axalgazrdobas uyvars xalxuri simRera. raionebi amRerda, rac yvelaze rTuli iyo. saqme is ki ar aris, rogor mRerian, mTavaria, rom simRera uyvarT. es iyo Cemi yvelaze didi mizani da amas mivaRwieT. rasakvirvelia, marto me ara, _ Cvenma Taobam. gverdSi bevri profesionali medga. dRes SemiZlia vTqva, rom simRera gadarCa. roca simRera axalgazrdebs uyvarT, CaTvaleT, rom simRera gadarCenilia. _ Tqveni strategia iyo, rom bavSvebs SeeyvarebinaT simRera da Semdeg TviTon gamxdariyvnen musikosebi, TviTon daewyoT simReris popularizacia da gundebis Seqmna. rogorc vici, sinamdvileSic ase moxda da ibartya „marTvem“. _ ibartya, swori brZaneT. „marTve“ Camoyalibda qalbatoni naTela jiRauris didi mxardaWeriT, romelic bavSvTa mxatvruli aRzrdis saxlis direqtori iyo. roca bavSvebma pirveli warmatebebi naxes _ roca qarTuli xalxuri simReris Zala irwmunes _ maSin aRmoCnda, rom bevr maTgans mizani aqvs, swored simReras moaxmaros mTeli Tavisi energia. im periodSi kulturis ministri gaxldaT didi kompozitori da didi pirovneba oTar TaqTaqiSvili. batonma oTarma evropisa da msofliosken gauxsna gza qarTul kulturas _ simReras da cekvas. rodesac batoni oTari „marTves“ koncerts pirvelad daeswro, damiZaxa da miTxra, rom amaze didi saqme ar gakeTebulao. man TanamSromlebs daavala, rom specialurad „marTves“ bavSvebisTvis gaexsnaT musikaluri skola, sadac isini musikalur ganaTlebas miiRebdnen da konservatoriaSi Casabareblad moemzadebodnen. batoni oTari fiqrobda, rom amis Semdeg es bavSvebi TviTon daubrundebodnen xalxur simReras, rogorc xelmZRvanelebi.

– So you deem it even more important than the ‘Rustavi’ ensemble? – Naturally. ‘Rustavi’ is an eminent ensemble. It counts more than 50 years, and achieved great deeds for the restoration and popularization of Georgian folk singing during that time. It brought Georgian songs to more than 80 countries. It restored many song variations, and recorded and released 900 songs. But I think their most important achievement is that today, the youth likes folk songs. Regions have started singing, which was the most difficult. It’s not about how well they sing, the important thing is that they love singing. This was my most important goal, and we managed to achieve it. Of course, I wasn’t alone – it was our whole generation. There were many professionals besides me. Today, I can say that folk singing has survived. If young people like singing, believe me, singing has survived. – Your strategy was to make children fall in love with music so they would follow that path and popularize folk singing and create ensembles themselves. As I know, the ensemble ‘Martve’ hatched in precisely that way. – It did, you are right. ‘Martve’ was founded with the great support of Ms. Natela Jighauri, who was the director of the House for the Artistic Upbringing of Children. When children got their first successes – when they understood the power of Georgian folk songs, it became apparent that many of them wanted to dedicate all their energy to singing. At that time, the Minister of Culture was the great composer and public figure Otar Taktakishvili. Mr. Otar opened the doors of Europe and the world to Georgian culture – both songs and dances. When Mr. Otar attended a concert by ‘Martve’ for the first time, he called me and told me that this was the greatest thing that had ever been done. He ordered some of his staff to open a music school specially for the children of the ‘Martve’ ensemble, where they would get musical education and prepare in order to enroll at the conservatoire. Mr. Otar thought that after that, these children would return by themselves to folk singing, as leading figures. – So he understood what you had planned. – Yes, he understood everything perfectly. A special musical department was opened for ‘Martve’ at the 28th Music School, headed by Mr. Tamaz Andghuladze. After that, there was not enough room in ‘Martve’ anymore, so another ensemble was created – we called it ‘Bichebi’ (“Boys”). ‘Martve’ and ‘Bichebi’ were studying together at this school. After the school, they finished the conservatoire, and if today, there is a good, successful ensemble somewhere – be it a children’s or an adult ensemble, you can be sure ‘Martve’ has something to do with it. There are great choirmasters and specialists in Georgia who have a diploma from the Conservatoire, but only people who have been in ‘Martve’ and ‘Bichebi’ work in the field of folk.

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_ anu man gaiazra, rac Tqven gqondaT Cafiqrebuli. _ diax, zustad gaiazra yvelaferi. 28-e musikalur skolaSi, romelsac batoni Tamaz andRulaZe xelmZRvanelobda, specialurad „marTvesTvis“ gavxseniT musikaluri ganyofileba. mere „marTveSi“ yvela msurvelis adgili ar iyo da Seiqmna meore ansambli, romelsac „biWebi“ davarqviT. „marTve“ da „biWebi“ erTad swavlobdnen am skolaSi. skolis damTavrebis Semdeg, konservatoria daamTavres da dRes Tu sadme kargi, warmatebuli ansamblia _ rogorc bavSvebis, ise didebis _ yvelgan „marTves“ xeli urevia. saqarTveloSi bevri SesaniSnavi lotbari da specialistia konservatoriis diplomiT, magram folkloris ganxriT mxolod „marTvedan“ da „biWebidan“ wasuli axalgazrdebi muSaoben. maT didi amindi Seqmnes. _ ramdeni bavSvi iyo „marTveSi“? _ Tavidan 28 bavSvi iyo, mere 40-mde avediT, bolos 60-mde gaizarda ansamblis wevrebis raodenoba. „marTve“ iseTi popularuli gaxda, rom yvelas undoda aq moxvedra. bavSvebma xalxuri simReris codna da siyvaruli „marTveSi“ SeiZines, Semdeg konservatoriaSi profesiuli Cvevebi da musikaluri ganaTleba miiRes da aman ganapiroba, rom dRes saqarTveloSi Zalian bevri ansamblia.

– How many children were there in ‘Martve’? – In the beginning, they were 28, then 40, then their numbers reached up to 60 children. ‘Martve’ became so popular that everybody wanted to be in it. Children got to know and fell in love with folk singing in ‘Martve’, then they acquired professional habits and musical education at the Conservatoire, and this laid the foundations for the creation of a large number of ensembles in Georgia. – Now I would like to discuss step by step what you found in Tbilisi when you arrived in the capital from the Ozurgeti region to pursue musical studies, and what we have now, after the new way you have paved: 1. There were no folk singing ensembles in Tbilisi, and now there are. 2. There was no systematic archival and research work about the folk songs preserved in various regions of Georgia or abroad; now, the ‘Rustavi’ ensemble alone has gathered, worked on, and performed 900 songs and chants. 3. Children were ashamed of learning folk singing, and now, knowing folk music has become prestigious for all ages. 4. Georgian polyphony was not inscribed on the list of Intangible Cultural Heritage of Humanity, and now – it is. When you look over the long path you have walked, do you have a feeling of satisfaction or weariness? – Don’t put this on me alone, all this was achieved by my generation as a whole. I did my part, I did what I could. You asked what was my first impression when I arrived in Tbilisi. I wasn’t

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_ axla minda, rom punqtebad movuyaro Tavi imas, Tu ra dagxvdaT TbilisSi, roca musikaluri ganaTlebis misaRebad CamoxvediT ozurgeTis raionidan da ra gvaqvs dRes, Tqven mier gakvaluli gziT da Tqveni SromiT: 1. TbilisSi ar iyo xalxuri simReris ansamblebi, axla aris. 2. sistematurad ar iyo Segrovebuli da Seswavlili saqarTvelos sxvadasxva kuTxis da ucxoeTis arqivebSi daculi xalxuri simRerebi; axla mxolod ansambl „rusTavis“ mier mopovebuli, damuSavebuli da Sesrulebulia 900 simRera da sagalobeli; 3. bavSvebs sircxvilad miaCndaT xalxuri simReris Seswavla da axla musikalur folklorTan Sexeba prestiJulia yvela asakSi. 4. qarTuli mravalxmianoba iuneskos mier ar iyo aRiarebuli msoflio aramaterialuri memkvidreobis Sedevrad da axla _ aris. Tvals rom gadaavlebT am rTul gzas, ufro metad simsubuqis gancda geuflebaT, Tu ufro _ simZimis gancda? _ marto Cems damsaxurebad nu CaTvliT, es yvelaferi Cemma Taobam gaakeTa. me Cemi wvlili Sevitane, rac SemeZlo. Tqven brZaneT, ra iyo Cemi pirveli STabeWdileba, roca TbilisSi Camovedi. TbilisSi swavlas musikaluri ganxriT ar vapirebdi imitom, rom wera memarjveboda. mindoda, rom Jurnalistikaze Camebarebina universitetSi. im periodSi aseTi wesi iyo, rom Tu oqros medalze daamTavrebdi saSualo skolas, sabuTebs ugamocdod iRebdnen. mec maT rigSi movxvdi da SemeZlo, universitetSi ugamocdod Camebarebina. magram aq gadamwyveti roli iTamaSa babuaCemma artem erqomaiSvilma. man CaTvala, rom radgan Cveni gvari 300 welia, modis da musikaluri gvaria, me unda vyofiliyavi am saqmis gamgrZelebeli da aucileblad musikaluri ganaTleba unda mimeRo. unda meswavla sxvadasxva kuTxis simRerebi da yvelaferi Cagvewera notebze. maSin es iyo xsna. babuas winaaRmdegoba ver gavuwie imitom, rom is mzrdida. mama ar myavda da CemTvis dRemde babua rCeba yvelaze did kacad, visganac raime viswavle. davTanxmdi babuas, Camovedi TbilisSi da Cavabare musikalur saswavlebelSi, Semdeg ki konservatoriaSi. roca TbilisSi Camovedi (es iyo 1958 weli), arsebobda marto simRerisa da cekvis saxelmwifo akademiuri ansambli, dRes „erisionad“ wodebuli, romelsac maSin anzor kavsaZe xelmZRvanelobda. qoreografi jano bagrationi iyo. didi SemoqmedebiTi resursi hqonda am ansambls da sabWoTa kavSiris masStabiT bevrs mogzaurobda. maSin yovelwliuri gegma iyo: 160 koncerti unda gaemarTaT. es erTaderTi ansambli eweoda qarTuli xalxuri simRerisa da cekvis popularizacias. magram, samwuxarod, maTi repertuari SezRuduli iyo. aucileblad unda emReraT mTavrobaze da partiaze. Tumca, ansamblis xelmZRvaneloba axerxebda, rom qarTuli xalxuri simReris margalitebic Caesva programaSi. im periodSi olimpiadebisTvis da festivalebisTvis kompozitorebi davalebiT werdnen simRerebs leninze,

planning on studying music in Tbilisi, because I was better at writing. I wanted to enroll at the faculty of journalism. At that time, if you finished school with the highest honors, you could enter the university without any exam, and I had the chance to do so. My grandfather Artem Erkomaishvili played a decisive role. He believed that because our family name was connected to music for 300 years, I should continue on this path, and therefore needed to get some education in music. I had to learn songs from various regions, and write all their scores. I couldn’t go against the wish of my grandfather, he was the one who raised me. I didn’t have a father, and to this day, my grandfather remains the greatest father figure, from whom I learned many things. So I agreed, I came to Tbilisi and enrolled in music, then at the Conservatoire. When I arrived in Tbilisi (1958), there was only one academic state ensemble of songs and dances, which is now called ‘Erisioni’, and it was headed by Anzor Kavsadze. Its choreographer was Jano Bagrationi. This ensemble had great creative resources, and was touring a lot in the Soviet Union. They were performing about 160 concerts a year at that time. It was the only ensemble working on the popularization of Georgian folk songs and dances. But unfortunately, their repertoire was not very diverse. They had the obligation to sing about the authorities and the communist party. But the ensemble still managed to include some masterpieces of Georgian folk songs in the programme. At that time, composers were creating songs for festivals on orders from the government about Lenin, the party and the authorities, heroes of labor, love... But if there was a farm worker decorated with an order and a medallist woman – they definitely had to love each other in the song. Today, it makes me laugh, but it was very important for the ideology. – So musical propagand was a reality. – Very much so. They would only sing the following kinds of songs at festivals: “I am a woman working at the farm, embellished by my Georgian veil, you are a man working at the farm, you have been awarded an order", and so on... Let’s just take ‘Kekela and Maro’: this was a sort of “clash” between two women about who had worked more and who gathered more crops on that day. But it was a beautiful and specific song, many people listened to it. You know how people are? They fall in love with what they get accustomed to. – Who was singing before the appearance of chamber folk singing ensembles? Or in other words, who was singing these ideological songs? – The state ensemble, as you must know. Apart from that, there was the chamber ensemble ‘Shvidkatsa’, created by Jansugh Kakhidze, which won the gold medal at the 1957 Moscow Festival. Mr. Jansugh’s ‘Shvidkatsa’ has paved the road for the future of chamber folk ensembles. This was a group of very talented boys. At that time, Jansugh was a student of the Conservatoire, and he created ‘Shvidkatsa’ precisely for this festival, resulting in a furor of excitment in Moscow. When they performed ‘Khasanbegura’, the hall went crazy. There were distinguished musicians among the jury – worldly renowned French

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partiasa da mTavrobaze, Sromis gmirebze, siyvarulze... oRond, Tu kolmeurne iyo ordenosani da qali medalosani _ imaT unda hyvarebodaT erTmaneTi. axla rom vuyureb, mecineba, magram ideologiisTvis amas didi mniSvneloba hqonda. _ anu muSaobda musikaluri propaganda. _ Zalian magrad muSaobda. olimpiadebze mxolod aseT simRerebs mRerodnen: me kolmeurne qali var, mSvenis qarTuli mandili, Sen kolmeurne vaJi xar, ordenosani xar da ase Semdeg... „kekela da maro“ aviRoT: es iyo ori qalbatonis gaSaireba, vin meti iSroma im dRes da vin meti mosavali moiyvana. Tumca, lamazi da saxasiaTo simRera iyo, xalxi usmenda. xalxi, iciT, rogor aris? rasac mieCveva, is uyvardeba. _ sanam xalxuri simReris kameruli ansamblebi Seiqmneboda, manamde vin mReroda? anu vin mReroda am ideologiur simRerebs? _ saxelmwifo ansambli, rogorc mogaxseneT. danarCeni _ kameruli ansambli iyo „Svidkaca“, jansuR kaxiZis mier Seqmnili, romelmac 1957 wels moskovSi festivalze didi oqros medali aiRo. janos „Svidkacam“ gansazRvra swored kameruli xalxuri ansamblebis momavali. es iyo uniWieresi biWebis krebuli. jansuRi maSin konservatoriis studenti iyo da swored am festivalisTvis Seqmna „Svidkaca“, romelmac furori moaxdina moskovSi. magaT rom „xasanbegura“ Seasrules, daingra darbazi. JiuriSi iyvnen gamorCeuli musikosebi, ucxoeTidan mowveuli Zalian cnobili kompozitori filip Jerari da iyo kidev yvela drois msoflio aTeulSi Seyvanili tenori dito skipa. jansuRisgan vici, rom rodesac konkursi damTavrda, dito skipam yeli gausinja mixeil SaviSvils, ise gaukvirda, krimanWuli rom moismina. swored jansuR kaxiZis „Svidkacam“ gauxsna gza qarTul simReras ucxoeTSi. jer poloneTSi gamovidnen, Semdeg belgiaSi... _ „Svidkacas“ mohyva Tqveni „gordela“? _ diax, am dros konservatoriaSi SevikribeT xalxuri simReris momReralTa ojaxebidan wamosuli axalgazrdebi: gomar sixaruliZe, Temur qevxiSvili, badri ToiZe, kukuri WoxoneliZe, aseve, me. Cven SevqmeniT ansambli, romelsac „gordela“ davarqviT. babua artemi maSin cocxali iyo. Zalian gauxarda, rom aseT saqmes movkideT xeli. pirvelma man gvaswavla sagaloblebi da erTi mokle naduri, romelsac „gordela“ erqva. ase SevarCieT ansamblis dasaxeleba. saqarTveloSi farTo sazogadoebam arc icoda, rom sagaloblebi arsebobda. im periodSi yvelaferi eklesiuri ikrZaleboda. babuas meSveobiT, pirveli sagaloblebi „gordelam“ gamoitana scenaze. aman iseTi furori gamoiwvia, rom Semdeg, sadac ki „gordela“

composer Philippe Gérard, as well as Tito Schipa, known as one of the best tenors to have ever lived. I know from Jansugh that Tito Schipa was so impressed with the ‘Krimanchuli’ song that he went and checked Mikheil Shavishvili’s neck when the competition was over. Jansugh Kakhidze’s ‘Shvidkatsa’ paved the way for Georgian songs out of the Soviet Union. They first performed in Poland, then in Belgium... – Did your ‘Gordela’ follow ‘Shvidkatsa’? – Yes, at that time, the young people who had come from their families and sang folk songs gathered at the Conservatoire: Gomar Sikharulidze, Temur Kevkhishvili, Badri Toidze, Kukuri Chokhonelidze, and myself. We created an ensemble and called it ‘Gordela’. Grandfather Artem was still alive back then. He was very happy that we started such an adventure. He was the first to teach us religious chants, as well as a harvest song called ‘Gordela’ – that’s why we chose that name. In Georgia, most people didn’t know that religious chants existed. At that time, everything religious was forbidden. Thanks to my grandfather, ‘Gordela’ became the first ensemble to perform religious chants on the stage. It was such a triumph that after that, it was overcrowded wherever ‘Gordela’ performed. At the start, nobody wanted to listen to us, but once, a concert of chants headed by Merab Kostava took place in the small hall of the Conservatoire. The concert was also attended by Zviad Gamsakhurdia. It was a very special situation for us. Young people understood that ‘Gordela’ was pure gold, and were learning and performing songs that had not been performed. This was the beginning of the popularization of Georgian chants. – Why were there no restrictions about singing religious chants in public and popularizing them? – There was. When they filmed us on TV and the broader public got to hear religious songs, the press of the time wrote a lot about us – all of those who could hinder us tried. Ia Mukhraneli published a very good letter in defense of ‘Gordela’. This letter was printed in ‘Vecherni Tbilisi’. Ms. Ia wrote that what we were doing was part of Georgian traditions, a unique Georgian treasure, and that one shouldn’t go against it. – It seems the communist party wasn’t completely against it either. – Many wanted to help, but unfortunately, officials couldn’t say or do it publicly. It is worth noting that Mr. Roin Metreveli, who used to be the secretary of the Young Communist League’s central committee, awarded ‘Gordela’ with the Young Communist League’s prize, which was an important award at the time. – Did it open doors for you? – Of course. – All of ‘Gordela’s’ members were originally from the regions, as opposed to the capital? – Yes.

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gamoCndeboda, teva aRar iyo. Tavidan aravis undoda Cveni mosmena, magram erTxel konservatoriis mcire darbazSi gaimarTa sagaloblebis koncerti, romelic merab kostavas mihyavda. koncerts zviad gamsaxurdiac daeswro. Cven irgvliv saocari situacia Seiqmna. axalgazrdoba mixvda, rom „gordela“ iyo TviTnabadi oqro, romelic swavlobda da asrulebda im simRerebs, romlebic manamde ar Sesrulebula. aqedan daiwyo qarTuli sagaloblebis popularizacia. _ SezRudva ratom ar Seexo sagaloblebis sajarod gamotanis da popularizaciis process? _ rogor ar Seexo. roca televiziaSi gadagviRes da sagalobeli farTo asparezze gamoCnda, axmaurda maSindeli presa _ is, visac CvenTvis xelis SeSla SeeZlo. maSin „gordelas“ dasacavad Zalian kargi werili gamoaqveyna ia muxranelma. es werili „veCerni tbilisSi“ daibeWda. qalbatoni ia werda, rom es aris qarTuli tradiciebi, unikaluri qarTuli madani da ar SeiZleba xelis SeSla. _ etyoba, partiac ar iyo kategoriuli winaaRmdegi. _ bevrs undoda daxmareba, magram, samwuxarod, Tanamdebobis pirebi amas Riad ver akeTebdnen. aucileblad unda aRvniSno batoni roin metreveli, romelic maSin komkavSiris centraluri komitetis mdivani iyo da romelmac „gordela“ komkavSiris premiiT daajildova. didi jildo iyo maSin. _ aman gza gagixsnaT? _ ra Tqma unda. _ „gordelas“ wevrebi regionebidan iyaviT Camosuli TbilisSi? _ diax. _ rogor moxda Tbilisur sazogadoebaSi ansamblis wevrebis pirovnuli damkvidreba? Tbilisuri sazogadoebis „Sinaurebi“ rogor gaxdiT? _ „gordelas“ repertuarSi Tavi moiyara sagaloblebma da saqarTvelos sxvadasxva kuTxis simRerebma. Tbiliselma mayurebelma ase aRiqva, rom „gordelas“ saxiT raRac axali movida; raRac iseTi, rac man ar icoda. gvepatiJebodnen sxvadasxva dawesebulebis da samTavrobo RonisZiebebze. vmRerodiT „mravalJamiers“ da iseT simRerebs, romelTa gamo veravin dagvtuqsavda. SigadaSig sagaloblebsac SevurevdiT. nel-nela gagvicno sazogadoebam. Cvens koncertebs arc axalgazrdebi acdendnen da arc xandazmulebi. gansakuTrebiT mxars gviWerdnen Zveli Taobis warmomadgenlebi _ universitetis da konservatoriis profesorebi. vaxtang

– How did the establishment of the ensemble’s members in the Tbilisian society take place? How did you become an “insider” of Tbilisi’s society? – Religious chants and songs from various regions of Georgia were gathered in ‘Gordela’s’ repertoire. The public in Tbilisi regarded what ‘Gordela’ had to offer as something new, something they didn’t know. They were inviting us in various institutions and governmental events. We were singing ‘Mravalzhamieri’ and other songs for which nobody could reprimand us. From time to time, we would also mix a religious chant in there. Little by little, the society got to know us. People from all ages were attending our concerts. Representatives of the older generation – professors from the University and the Conservatoire – were particularly supportive. Vakhtang Beridze – a great art historian, a wonderful person – was one of our most loyal backers. – So the society accepted you without any problem? – To this day, Temur Kevkhishvili remembers a concert we performed at the Vake Park, when nobody knew ‘Gordela’. They announced ‘Shavi Shashvi’, so we sang ‘Shavi Shashvi’. Part of that song imitates the barking of dogs: “Hau-hau!”. When we started, all the young people started imitating us: “Hau-hau-hau-hau...” Everybody was barking, and they practically wrecked our song. Boys were crying. Young people didn’t understand what was going on. Afterwards, when they got to know ‘Gordela’ better, we could sing not only ‘Shavi Shashvi’, but any song, and everybody was amazed, including young people. We were praised by famous people, articles about us wre published in newspapers. ‘Gordela’ won the gold medal at the World Festival in Bulgaria in 1968. After that, our ensemble became very popular everywhere in Georgia. – During what period did you go to the army? – They took me to the army when I was in my third year of studies. I left ‘Gordela’ and went. Normally, they didn’t bring university students to the army. But Khrushchev had ordered every man born in the years 1941-1945 to go. Because of the war, there were not many of us. They mobilized us and took us. The minister of Culture, Mr. Otar Taktakishvili, strongly objected to it, and my grandfather too, of course, but they couldn’t do nothing about it. – So ‘Gordela’ was over? – No, it is after returning from the army and going back to ‘Gordela’ that we went to the festival in Bulgaria. But the thing is that I had lost three years at the army. My grandfather was still alive. During these three years, I could have learned and recorded so many things. Grandfather passed one year after I returned from the army. He was very disappointed, and told me: “This time is an irreparable loss not only for me and you, but for Georgian singing in general; but what can I do, I couldn’t do more.” I can still feel what a loss it was. Today, there is a “boom” about religious chants, but at that time, I had my grandfather besides me, and if I did record him singing a chant, I could have recorded hundreds of them. After finishing the Conservatoire, I went to work in Rustavi, where I founded the ensemble ‘Rustavi’ in 1968.

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beriZe _ didi xelovnebaTmcodne, araCveulebrivi pirovneba _ Cveni guliTadi mxardamWeri iyo. _ anu uproblemod migiRoT sazogadoebam? _ Temur qevxiSvili dRemde igonebs, rom vakis parkSi gvqonda koncerti, roca „gordelas“ jer aravin icnobda. gamoacxades „Savi SaSvi“ da vimRereT „Savi SaSvi“. iq aris aseTi imitacia ZaRlebis „hau-hau!“ ZaRlebi rogor yefen. simReraSia es. rom daviwyeT, mTeli axalgazrdoba agvyva: „hau-hau-hau-hau...“ yefda sulyvela da CagviSales, praqtikulad, simRera. biWebi tirodnen. ver gaiges axalgazrdebma, raSi iyo saqme. Semdeg, roca „gordela“ kargad gaicnes, „Savi SaSvi“ ki ara, rac ginda, gvemRera, aRfrTovanebuli iyo yvela, maT Soris, axalgazrdebic. cnobili pirovnebebi gvaqebdnen, gazeTebSi recenziebi qveyndeboda. msoflio festivalze, 1968 wels, bulgareTSi „gordelam“ didi oqros medali aiRo. amis Semdeg Cveni ansambli ukve Zalian popularuli gaxda mTel saqarTveloSi. _ jarSi ra periodSi iyaviT? _ jarSi mesame kursidan wamiyvanes. „gordela“ davtove da wavedi. Cveulebriv, umaRlesi saswavleblebis studentebi jarSi ar mihyavdaT. magram xruSCovis brZaneba iyo, rom 1941-1945 wlebSi dabadebuli yvela mamakaci unda gaewviaT. am wlebSi Zalian dabali iyo Sobadoba,

– To return to my initial question, how do you see everything you told us (and the many things we omitted) from today’s perspective: is it a heavy burden, or on the contrary, do you feel satisfied and lighthearted to have achieved all this? – It was probably God’s will. Myself and my friends have had the chance to not only do what we did out of our own enthusiasm, but with the support of many people. – Despite all the work that has been done, there is still some danger, and more so for folk singing, compared to religious chanting. Let’s start with the fact that in the past, folk songs were created in villages, and coming to the cities from there. Today, it’s the contrary – they sing folk songs much more often in the cities than in villages. The city has endowed itself with the goal of returning folk songs to villages. Isn’t this process a bit unnatural? In reality, isn’t there a risk for the source of these songs to dry up? – Until there were singers of the older generation in every region; until old people were still singing these old songs, regardless of the political situation –in families, feasts, weddings – until then, there was no such danger. We had a great strength in villages, and the folklore of the whole country was relying on it. But when these ‘Last Mohicans’ left and the number of singers dwindled, then the danger you mentioned did appear. But nature has its own ways. As soon as the situation becomes critical, something new appears, with enough strength to resolve the problem at hand. Here, it was the Giorgi Mtatsmindeli Higher Educational Institution of Ecclesiastical Chant,

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founded under the patronage of the Patriarch and with the support of Mr. Giorgi Chkhartishvili. This university has been in existence for more than 10 years, I am working there too, and it has been a great honor. We raise people who will be able to teach folk songs and religious chants in the regions.

omis gamo. gagvikeTes mobilizacia da wagviyvanes. rogor ar ibrZola kulturis ministrma, batonma oTar TaqTaqiSvilma, babuam, TavisTavad, magram araferi gamovida. _ „gordela“ daiSala? _ ara, jaridan rom Camovedi, „gordelaSi“ davbrundi da mere wavediT festivalze bulgareTSi. magram saqme isaa, rom jarSi sami weli davkarge. babua cocxali iyo. im sami wlis ganmavlobaSi ramdeni ramis swavla, ramdeni ramis Cawera SeiZleboda. rom Camovedi, babua erTi wlis Semdeg gardaicvala. Zalian guldawyvetilma miTxra: es dro aunazRaurebeli danaklisia CemTvis da SenTvis ki ara marto, qarTuli simRerisTvis; magram ra vqna, ver movaxerxe metio. axlac vgrZnob, ra didi danaklisi iyo. axla, roca sagaloblebze aseTi bumia atexili, me babua ager gverdiT myavda cocxali. misgan sagaloblebi ki Caviwere, magram, SemeZlo, asobiT Camewera. konservatoriis damTavrebis Semdeg rusTavSi wavedi samuSaod da iq Camovayalibe ansambli „rusTavi“, 1968 wels. _ Tavdapirvel kiTxvas rom davubrundeT, es yvelaferi, rac gviambeT da kidev bevri ram, rac gamovtoveT, _ TqvenTvis, dRevandeli gadasaxedidan, tvirTi da simZimea, Tu piriqiT, msubuqad grZnobT Tavs, rom amdeni ram gamogividaT? _ albaT, RmerTis neba iyo. ise warimarTa Cemi da Cemi megobrebis cxovreba, rom rac gakeTda, marto enTuziazmiT ara, bevri adamianis mxardaWeriT gakeTda. _ miuxedavad didi Rvawlisa, raRac safrTxeebi davinaxe, rac ufro xalxur simRerebs exeba, vidre sagaloblebs. daviwyoT imiT, rom adre xalxuri simRerebi sofelSi iqmneboda da iqidan Semodioda qalaqSi. axla piriqiT aris _ xalxur simRerebs bevrad xSirad mRerian qalaqSi, vidre soflebSi. qalaqma aiRo misia, rom xalxuri simRera soflebSi daabrunos. es procesi cota xelovnuri xom ar aris? sinamdvileSi, xom ar arsebobs safrTxe, rom simReris wyaros saTave daiSritos? _ sanam Zveli Taobis momRerlebi arsebobdnen yvela kuTxeSi; sanam moxucebi kidev mRerodnen am Zvel simRerebs, imisgan damoukideblad, rogori iyo politika; mRerodnen ojaxebSi, dReobebSi, qorwilebSi _ manam saSiSroeba ar arsebobda. gvyavda Zlieri Zala sofelSi, romelsac qarTuli folklori eyrdnoboda. magram rodesac es „ukanaskneli mohikanebi“ wavidnen da momRerlebis raodenoba Zalian Semcirda, maSin gaCnda swored is safrTxe, rasac Tqven brZanebT. magram bunebas Tavisi kanonebi aqvs. rogorc ki sakiTxi kritikulad dadgeba, gamoCndeba xolme raRac Zala, romelic ama

– I didn’t know they were also teaching folk songs. – Mainly religious chants, but also folk songs. Thanks to the support and efforts of the Patriarch, many churches were built after the dissolution of the Soviet Union. But you couldn’t hear any Georgian songs in the churches. We did everything we could to have people sing Georgian chants in the churches. In that regard, the Ecclesiastical Chant Institution has played a great role. There is also the Folklore State Centre of Georgia, headed by Giorgi Donadze. Thanks to their efforts, folk schools have opened in more than 20 districts in Georgia in a few years’ time. The students who finish their education at the Ecclesiastical Chant Institution go to these schools to teach singing and chanting. – Do they only teach children, or also adults? – Both children and older people. They first receive their initial musical education where they live, then they come at the Ecclesiastical Chant Institution, where they receive special courses, and then return to their district. Do you see the chain reaction involved? In parallel to this, the fund ‘Georgian Chanting’ has appeared, the role of which was also very significant. This fund published scores, pedagogical discs and other material necessary for the education of would-be singers. Young Georgian musicians can now be well-equipped with a deep knowledge of Georgian songs and chants. In mountain regions, where folk songs and chants are taught – for instance, in Svaneti or in Eastern Georgia – the ‘Georgian Chanting’ fund pays salaries to local teachers. Today, everything is done for songs to return to the regions, and the endeavor is quite successful. From the festivals and competitions organized by the Folklore State Centre of Georgia in these last two years, we discovered that we have very interesting, ever-increasing ensembles in the regions, which sing old songs and chants in an authentic way. In churches too, we can now hear Georgian chants. There are young people who know all the versions of some old songs. The achievement of our generation is precisely the fact that young people fell in love with folk music. – It is thanks to your generation and to you personally that these versions were preserved – you recorded them, discovered them in both Georgian and foreign archives, and packaged them for those who are studying them now. But does all this mean that folk singing returned to its original function in villages? It is from you that I know that the development of technology and urbanization have removed the function of songs in villages. I think it has been long since someone saw families sing a folk song at the table, or in the vineyard, or in a field. Do you think that it is possible and necessary for folk songs not only to return to villages, but also to return to their traditional function?

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Tu im saqmes gadaarCens. CvenTan aseT Zalad gaCnda giorgi mTawmindelis saxelobis galobis universiteti, patriarqis kurTxeviT da batoni vano CxartiSvilis mxardaWeriT. 10 welze metia, universiteti arsebobs, mec iq vmuSaob da es didi pativia CemTvis. Cven vzrdiT kadrebs regionebisTvis, vzrdiT axalgazrdebs, romlebic regionebSi aswavlian xalxur simReras da sagalobels. _ ar vicodi, Tu xalxur simRerasac aswavlidnen. _ ZiriTadad, sagaloblebs aswavlian, magram, aseve, xalxur simRerasac. patriarqis xelSewyobiTa da ZaliT bevri eklesia aSenda imis Semdeg, rac sabWoTa kavSiri daiSala. magram eklesiebSi qarTuli galoba ar JRerda. yvelanairad SevecadeT, rom gvyoloda adamianebi, romlebic eklesiebSi qarTulad igalobebdnen. am mxriv Zalian didi roli iTamaSa galobis universitetma. arsebobs kidev folkloris saxelmwifo centri, romelsac giorgi donaZe xelmZRvanelobs. maTi ZalisxmeviT, ramdenime wlis ganmavlobaSi saqarTvelos 20 Tu met raionSi gaixsna folkloruli skolebi, sadac Cveni kursdamTavrebulebi midian da simRera-galobas aswavlian. _ mxolod bavSvebs aswavlian Tu ufrosebsac? _ bavSvebsac da mozrdilebsac. isini adgilze iReben pirvel musikalur ganaTlebas, Semdeg modian galobis universitetSi, sadac specialur ganaTlebas iReben da ukan brundebian. xedavT, rogori jaWvuri procesia? paralelurad, gaCnda fondi „qarTuli galoba“, romlis roli aseve gadamwyvetia. am fondma gamosca notebi, saswavlo diskebi da sxva masala, rac swavlebisTvis aucilebelia. qarTveli musikosi axalgazrdebi ukve SeiaraRebulebi arian Rrma codniT qarTuli simRerasagaloblebis Sesaxeb. mTian raionebSi, sadac xalxuri simRera da sagaloblebi Seiswavleba _ magaliTad, svaneTSi an aRmosavleT saqarTvelos mTaSi _ fondi „qarTuli galoba“ xelfasebs uxdis iqaur maswavleblebs. dRes yvelaferi keTdeba imisTvis, rom simRera raionebs daubrundes da didi miRwevac gvaqvs am saqmeSi. SarSan da SarSanwin Catarebuli festivalebidan da konkursebidan, romlebic folkloris saxelmwifo centris organizebiT Catarda, gamoCnda, rom raionebSi gvyavs saintereso, mzardi ansamblebi, romlebic avTenturad mRerian Zvel simRerebs da sagaloblebs. eklesiebSic ukve qarTuli galoba ismis. arian axalgazrdebi, romlebmac Zveli simRerebis yvela varianti ician. Cveni Taobis damsaxureba swored is aris, rom axalgazrdebs musikaluri folklori SevayvareT. _ Tqveni Taobis da piradad Tqveni damsaxurebaa isic, rom es variantebi CawereT, moiZieT zogi saqarTveloSi, zogi ucxoeTis arqivebSi da faqtobrivad, gamzadebuli

– Familial musical tradition was one of the most important ones for centuries. Songs were transmitted orally from generation to generation. A very interesting competition was held last year, in which the participants were family ensembles. Singing families came to sing from almost all the regions of the country. Small children were performing folk songs wonderfully with their parents, grandmothers, and grandfathers. But as you said, urbanization and technological development have stripped folk songs from their principal function. Nobody takes out their winepress in the yard and sings ‘Elesa’ anymore. Instead of ‘Orovela’, it is the sound of a tractor that you will hear in fields. But what is the most important? These songs have been saved, and not in the form of museum exhibits. People actually sing them. Times change, situations change, and what used to be sung in fields (for instance ‘Nadurebi’) is now performed on the stage. – You have written that folk songs have two fundamental aspects – polyphony and improvisation. Will the process that you have just described show enough energy for folk singing to retain its improvisational character and not get stuck on the versions that we have today? Will Georgian folk songs be able to continue to evolve? – Teaching singing does not only mean teaching this or that voice to the singer. When you teach folk singing well, it needs to incorporate improvisation too. In the old days, good singers would never sing the same part in the same way. They simply could not have done so. The skill of improvisation was so inherent to them that they would change something at every performance. These changes would lead to the creation of new versions. Once, my grandfather was teaching me a song, and he sang it to me. The second time, he sang it differently, the third time – in yet a different way. I told him to sing it in the way it should properly be sung. He laughed and told me: “I just had some fun, and sang it the way I wanted.” I asked him how many versions of this song existed, and he answered: “As many as there are good singers”. Improvisation is a skill that every talented person has. But people should first master how to sing before starting to improvise. Famous Gurian singer Guri Sikharulidze passed recently. He could never have been a choirmaster, as he could simply not sing the same part in the same way twice. Children were confused. It was better for Guri to remain a singer and improvise, to create many versions, than to teach children. That man had limitless talent, and he was singing in his own way, the one that best fit his voice and manner. If singers don’t adapt to the melody (and adapt the melody to themselves), if they do not absorb it and improvise – then they will not be able to become great singers. Some of those who could were: Noko Khurtsia, Kirile Kachkoria, the Erkomaishvili family, the Chavleishvili family, Dedas Levana, the Berdzenishvili family... – So folk songs are not at risk of losing their improvisational character. – Clearly, they are not. When people got acquainted with ‘Martve’, some musicians were complaining that children could not improvise. Naturally, they were right. But you should first teach children how to sing. When they will grow up and learn different variations, when

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daaxvedreT maT, vinc axla swavlobs. magram niSnavs Tu ara es yvelaferi, rom xalxuri simRera daibrunebs Tavis funqcias sofelSi. Tqvengan vici, rom teqnikis ganviTarebam, urbanizaciam simReras sofelSi funqcia daukarga. ojaxebs xalxuri simRera emReraT an sufrasTan, an venaxSi, an yanaSi muSaobisas _ mgoni, karga xania, aRaravis unaxavs. migaCniaT Tu ara SesaZleblad da saWirod, rom xalxuri simRera ara mxolod dabrundes soflebSi, aramed, dabrundes Tavisi tradiciuli funqciiT? _ ojaxuri samusiko tradicia erT-erTi umniSvnelovanesi iyo saukuneebis ganmavlobaSi. Taobidan Taobas gadaecemoda simRera zepiri saxiT. SarSan Catarda Zalian saintereso konkursi, romelSic ojaxuri ansamblebi monawileobdnen. TiTqmis yvela regionidan Camovidnen momRerali ojaxebi. patara bavSvebi mSoblebTan, bebiebTan da babuebTan erTad SesaniSnavad asrulebdnen xalxur simRerebs. magram rac Tqven TqviT, rom urbanizaciam da teqnikis ganviTarebam xalxur simReras pirdapiri funqcia daukarga, namdvilad asea. sawnaxeli aravis gamoaqvs sofelSi da „elesas“ aRaravin mReris. yanas traqtori amuSavebs da Sromis simRera „orovela“ aRar ismis. magram mTavari ra aris? es simRerebi gadarCa da

they will master many skills, then they can start thinking about improvising. I started improvising when I was 30 years old. This happened naturally. It comes by itself, when you learn everything, when you hear every voice the right way, when you know all variations. Who ever heard an improvisation from a child? – I would like to ask you about a memory you have mentioned yourself: Georgian language teacher Panteleimon Iobishvili said that if Georgia completely collapsed and only ‘The Knight in the Panther’s Skin’, ‘Chakrulo’ and ‘Khasanbegura’ were preserved, the ones discovering them would say that a great civilization perished. I understand about ‘The Knight in the Panther’s Skin’, But could you explain me what is so special about these two songs? – Professor Panteleimon was a wonderful person, a very erudite man, a student of Ivane Javakhishvili. He would continue teaching assiduous children after class, and he talked a lot to us during these occasions. It is in that setting that he expressed that sentence. Later, when I learned the songs of all the regions, I understood that these are two masterpieces – one from Eastern Georgia, the other from Western Georgia. With its “krimanchuli” voice, ‘Khasanbegura’ has astonished the great composer Stravinsky. He said that the songs including the “krimanchuli” voice were the best he had ever heard,

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and that the polyphonic songs incorporating “krimanchuli” voices recorded in Georgia have achieved much more than what modern music had done.

samuzeumo eqsponatebad ar gadaiqca. am simRerebs cocxlad asruleben. dro icvleba, pirobebi icvleba da is, rac adre yanaSi sruldeboda (igive „nadurebi“), dRes scenaze sruldeba. _ Tqven werdiT, rom xalxur simReras ori mTavari Tviseba aqvs _ mravalxmianoba da improvizacia. im process, rac axla Tqven aRwereT, eqneba Tu ara sakmarisi Sinagani energia imisTvis, rom xalxuri simRera kvlav iyos improvizaciuli da ar gaiyinos im variantebze, rac dRes gvaqvs? SeZlebs Semdgom ganviTarebas qarTuli xalxuri simRera? _ simReris swavleba ar niSnavs marto imas, rom esa da es xma aswavlo momRerals da Tavisi dRe da moswreba imas mRerodes. roca xalxur simReras kargad aswavli, aq, rasakvirvelia, improvizaciac igulisxmeba. kargi momRerali adre erT xmas orjer erTnairad ar gaimeorebda. ver gaimeorebda. mas imdenad Rrmad hqonda Camjdari improvizaciis unari, rom yvela gameorebis dros raRacas cvlida. es cvlilebebi iwvevda variantebis mravalsaxeobas. erTxel babua raRac simReras maswavlida da imRera. meored sxvanairad imRera, mesamedac _ sxvanairad. me vuTxari, erTxel ise mimRere, sworad rogorc unda iyos-meTqi. gaecina da miTxra, gaverTe axla da rogorc mominda, ise vimRereo. babu, ramdeni varianti arsebobs am simReris-meTqi, vkiTxe. ramdenic kargi momReraliao. improvizacia niWieri kacis Tandayolili unaria. magram adamianma jer Zalian kargad unda iswavlos simRera da mxolod amis Semdeg iwyebs improvizirebas. axlaxan gardaicvala cnobili guruli momRerali guri sixaruliZe. is lotbari verasodes iqneboda, radgan ar SeeZlo, erTi fraza orjer erTnairad gaemeorebina. bavSvebi ibneodnen. jobda, guri darCeniliyo momRerlad da improvizebulad emRera, bevri varianti Seeqmna, vidre bavSvebisTvis eswavlebina. im kacs hqonda ganusazRvreli SesaZlebloba da mReroda ise, rogorc mis niWierebas SeSvenoda. Tu momReralma TviTon ar moirgo melodia, Tu ar Seisisxlxorca da improvizaciebi ar akeTa _ didi momRerali ar iqneba. swored aseTi momRerlebi darCnen istoriaSi: noko xurcia, kirile paWkoria, erqomaiSvilebis gvari, CavleiSvilebis gvari, dedas levana, berZeniSvilebi, romeli erTi CamovTvalo... _ ese igi, improvizaciis mxriv xalxur simReras safrTxe ar emuqreba. _ namdvilad ara. roca „marTve“ gaicno sazogadoebam, zogierTi musikosi Cioda, bavSvebi ver improvizirebeno. rasakvirvelia, marTalia. magram bavSvs jer simRera unda Seaswavlo. roca gaizrdeba da variantebs iswavlis, roca aTasnair Cvevas daeufleba, mere SeuZlia, improvizaciaze ifiqros. me improvizacia daviwye, 30 wlis rom viyavi.

– Why? – In general, the “krimanchuli” is an unprecedented phenomenon – even on a global scale. World-renowned conductor Zubin Mehta recently visited us, and the ‘Rustavi’ choir sang for him. Our guest was particularly struck by the “krimanchuli” voice. He called Gedi Jincharadze, got close to him, made him sing, checked his throat, and said several time that he had never seen or heard anything like that anywhere. ‘Khsanbegura’ is built entirely around improvisation. Each voice is independent – the “krimanchuli”, the first voice, and the bass. All voices improvise. Even if they really wanted to, they probably could not sing it in the same way twice. If you are not a good improviser, it doesn’t matter how well you can sing, you will not be able to perform ‘Khasanbegura’. Here, everyone is independent, each voice is improvising, and in the end, all voices sing in unison. This is what makes ‘Khasanbegura’ unique. Regarding ‘Chakrulo’, there are many versions of this song. Wonderful folklorist Otar Chijavadze has written down the scores of seven versions of ‘Chakrulo’, all with different texts. ‘Chakrulo’ itself is not one song, it is a collection of songs that has reached us in various forms. How significant is it that they sent ‘Chakrulo’ to space. Americans know their stuff, and such professionals were selecting the repertoire that nobody could lay any claim about their choices. What they have seen in ‘Chakrulo’, they could not find it anywhere else. ‘Chakrulo’ has such great creative energy that we always finish every concert abroad with that song, and I don’t remember one instance in which the public didn’t stand up. In every country where we sang ‘Chakrulo’, the public stands on its feet. This song conveys something unique, it has a special energy, one could say that it has some divine power. ‘Chakrulo’ and ‘Khasanbegura’ are summits of polyphony and Georgian performance arts. – In Ketevan Sadghobelashvili’s film ‘Collector of Voices’, you recounted how your grandfather Artem Erkomaishvili secretly recorded the funeral chant with which you had to bid him farewell. When you were telling this story, you had tears in your eyes, and it is impossible for spectators to not share this emotion with you during this scene. How would you explain what he did? – There are two things to consider. First, that my grandfather was a person who would never trouble others with his own problems. He even had put some money aside for his own funeral. Apart from that, grandfather was from the older generation, which had its own customs. He knew more than 2000 chants, from all genres, including funeral chants. He could sing all the voices of all these chants. During that time, he didn’t have anyone, I mean a good performer of Georgian chants – he was the last person with his knowledge. He secretly took a tape recorder from his nephew Amiran Toidze – he had a second one in his possession. He first recorded one voice on one tape recorder. Then he played it and sang the second voice,

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which he recorded on the second tape recorder. Then he sang the bass on these two voices, and the first tape recorder now contained a three-voiced chant. This is how he recorded all the chants that had to be performed according to funeral customs. When he was on his deathbed, he told me: “My child, you will find recordings there. Take them, and only play these ones at my funeral”.

es bunebrivad moxda. es TviTon modis, roca yvelafers iswavli, roca yvela xma kargad gesmis, variantebi ici. bavSvis improvizacia vin gaigona? _ Tqvens erT mogonebasTan dakavSirebiT minda, gkiTxoT: qarTuli enis maswavlebelma, panteleimon iobiSvilma miTxra, mTeli saqarTvelo rom daRupuliyo da mxolod „vefxistyaosani“, „Cakrulo“ da „xasanbegura“ gadarCeniliyo, ityodnen, didi civilizaciis qveyana daRupulao. „vefxistyaosani“ gasagebia. Tu SegiZliaT, agvixsnaT, ra aris gansakuTrebuli am or simReraSi? _ panteleimon maswavlebeli araCveulebrivi pirovneba iyo, uganaTlebulesi kaci, ivane javaxiSvilis mowafe. bejiT bavSvebs gakveTilebis Semdeg gvtovebda da bevrs gvelaparakeboda. maSin gviTxra es fraza. mogvianebiT, roca yvela kuTxis simRerebi Seviswavle, mivxvdi, rom es aris ori Sedevri _ erTi aRmosavleT saqarTvelosi, meore dasavleTis. „xasanbeguram“ Tavisi krimanWuliT ganacvifra stravinski, me-20 saukunis udidesi kompozitori. man Tqva, rom CemTvis krimanWuliani simRerebi saukeTesoa, rac ki odesme momismeniao. saqarTveloSi Cawerili krimanWuliani polifoniuri simRerebi gacilebiT metia, vidre Tanamedrove musikis yvela miRwevao.

– It is a very touching story. Now I would like to ask you about another subject: very recently, a new artistic director was appointed to the ‘Rustavi’ ensemble. It used to be you, and now it is Giorgi Natroshvili – a former member of ‘Martve’, who has been singing in the ‘Rustavi’ ensemble for more than 30 years. Why was this change necessary? – As you know, I have founded and headed this ensemble for 50 years. ‘Rustavi’ has played a great role in the popularization of Georgian songs, especially abroad. It has performed more up to 6000 concerts. Just imagine the number of variants of Georgian songs it has discovered and restored. In the beginning, there was no other ensemble, ‘Rustavi’ was almost all alone. We were going to villages, cities, recording and learning from singers. Everything the ensemble did went through me, including the repertoire. I did my part. I am already approaching my 80th year. The energy is simply not there anymore. It is not only about knowledge, there are many difficult details.

_ ratom? _ zogadad, krimanWulis fenomeni msoflioSi ganumeorebelia. ramdenime xnis win gvstumrobda zubin meta, msoflioSi saxelganTqmuli diriJori da „rusTavma“ umRera mas. stumari gansakuTrebiT dainteresda krimanWuliT. dauZaxa gedi jinWaraZes, axlos moiyvana, amRera, yeli gausinja da ramdenjerme Tqva, msgavsi ram arsad minaxavs da ar momismeniao. „xasanbegura“ mTlianad improvizaciazea agebuli. yvela xma damoukidebelia _ krimanWuli, damwyebi da bani. yvela xma improvizirebs. orjer erTnairad ki ara, albaT, naxevarjerac ver imRereben erTnairad. Tu kargi improvizatori ar xar, ragind kargi xma gqondes, „xasanbeguras“ ver imRereb. aq yvela xma damoukidebelia, yvela xma improvizirebs da bolos yvela xma modis unisonSi. es aris „xasanbeguras“ unikalobis saidumlo. rac Seexeba „Cakrulos“, misi bevri varianti arsebobs. oTar CijavaZes, SesaniSnav folklorists, notebSi aqvs Cawerili Svidi Cakrulo, Svidive sxvadasxva teqstze. TviTon „Cakrulo“ erTi simRera ar aris, simRerebis krebulia, romelic sxvadasxva variantis saxiT SemorCa. Tundac, is faqti rad Rirs, rom kosmosSi „Cakrulo“ gauSves. amerikelebma ician saqme da iq iseTi musikaluri sazogadoeba arCevda repertuars, rom maT nuravin gaejibreba. is, rac „CakruloSi“ dainaxes, sxvagan ver aRmoaCines. iseTi didi SemoqmedebiTi energia aqvs „Cakrulos“, rom ucxoeTSi yvela koncerts

– For instance? – I can still work, but I prefer young people to continue my endeavor. Half a century of doing the same thing is enough. – Mr. Anzor, I am really interested, what will the new artistic director do better than you? – I am not saying that he will do something better or worse. I am still the musical director. But the artistic director plays a very important role. There are many things apart from music. I can feel that I am not up to the task anymore. I don’t have the energy I had in my youth either. It is difficult to express in words what I’ve done in 50 years. ‘Rustavi’ has everything now. Now, it is up to the new generation to lead it. I don’t see anything bad in this. – I don’t see anything bad either, I just thought that the change of the artistic director was more a formality. I couldn’t imagine that the real director could be someone else when you are physically there. – I will always be there for whatever they need, I won’t be far. I am organizing the concerts and programmes. For the rest, the youth should take its responsibilities. Maybe ‘Rustavi’ is my “baby”, but I wouldn’t allow myself to remain its leader until I am not here anymore. – During your career, you were always in positions where you had to manage groups of people. What kind of manager are you – are you more prone to looking after people or more controlling?

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am simReriT vamTavrebT da ar maxsovs, darbazi fexze ar wamomdgariyo. yvela qveyanaSi, sadac ki „Cakrulos“ vmReriT, darbazi fexze dgas. saocari muxti, saocari energia aqvs am simReras, SeiZleba iTqvas, rom RvTaebrivi Zala aqvs. „Cakrulo“ da „xasanbegura“ polifoniisa da qarTuli saSemsruleblo xelovnebis mwvervalia. _ qeTevan sadRobelaSvilis filmSi „xmebis Semgrovebeli“ Tqven hyvebodiT, Tqvenma babuam artem erqomaiSvilma yvelasgan Cumad Tavisi xmiT rogor Caiwera dakrZalvis sagaloblebi, romlebiTac is bolo gzaze unda gagecilebinaT. amas rom hyvebodiT, Tqvens Tvalzec cremli iyo da SeuZlebelia, mayurebelmac TqvenTan erTad ar ganicados filmis es epizodi. rogor xsniT mis am saqciels? _ aq ori momentia. babua iseTi pirovneba iyo, romelic arasodes Tavis gaWirvebas sxvas Tavze ar moaxvevda. Tavisi dasasaflavebeli fulic ki, Turme, gadadebuli hqonda. amas daemata isic, rom babua Zveli Taobis, Zveli yaidis kaci iyo. ori aTasze meti sagalobeli icoda, yvela Janris, maT Soris, dasasaflavebeli. am sagaloblebis yvela xmas flobda. im periodSi mas ukve aRar hyavda vinme, qarTuli galobis Semsrulebeli _ TviTon iyo ukanaskneli mcodne. Cumad, aravis rom ar gaego amis Sesaxeb, Tavisi disSvilisgan, amiran ToiZisgan wamoiRo erTi magnitofoni, meore TviTon hqonda. babuam jer erTi xma Cawera erT magnitofonze. mere es CarTo da miumRera meore xma, rac meore magnitofonze Cawera. Semdeg am orive xmas bani uTxra da pirvel magnitofonze ukve samxmiani sagalobeli aRmoCnda. ase Cawera yvela sagalobeli, romlebic dasaflavebis wesis mixedviT unda Sesrulebuliyo. roca midioda, me miTxra: ai, babu, ager inaxeba Canawerebi. aiRe da Cems dasaflavebaze mxolod eseni gauSviTo. _ Zalian dasamaxsovrebeli ambavia. axla sxva Temaze minda, gkiTxoT: sul cota xnis win ansambl „rusTavs“ samxatvro xelmZRvaneli Seecvala. adre Tqven iyaviT, axla ki giorgi natroSvilia _ „marTves“ yofili wevri, romelic „rusTavSi“ ukve 30 wlis ganmavlobaSi mReris. ra aucileblobiT iyo gamowveuli es cvlileba? _ mogexsenebaT, me davafuZne da 50 wlis ganmavlobaSi vmarTavdi am ansambls. „rusTavs“ udidesi damsaxureba aqvs qarTuli simReris popularizaciis saqmeSi, gansakuTrebiT, ucxoeTSi. 6000-mde koncerti aqvs gamarTuli. warmoidgineT, qarTuli simRerebis ramdeni varianti aqvs moZiebuli da aRdgenili. Tavidan sxva ansamblebi ar arsebobda, „rusTavi“ TiTqmis marto iyo. davdiodiT soflebSi, qalaqebSi, viwerdiT momRerlebisgan, vswavlobdiT. rac ansambls warmatebebi aqvs, yvelafers Cems xelSi miaRwia, repertuaric Cems xelSi gakeTda. me Cemi movaleoba Sevasrule. ukve 80

– In any field, when you are a leader, you should be a diplomat. You should be able to have true relationships with people. Not only to teach them singing, but relationships too. Everybody has a different nature and character. To me, looking after people is more important, and then, there is naturally some control too. But most of my life, I was looking after others, and doing everything I could for them... You say that “a person who doesn’t feel mercy, repentance, or gratitude is a very dangerous person”. I would like to ask you about gratitude. According to Giorgi Urchukhishvili, one of our very interesting interviewees, the feeling of gratitude can be an obstacle to people, it binds you through invisible threads to the person to whom you should objectively be grateful. Did you ever come accross a situation where you thought you had to do something, but couldn’t because of a feeling of gratitude towards someone? Virtue is done by God, though through the means of humans. I have seen such virtuous things, that they could not have been done by humans, and in which God was definitely involved. In this case, I have a clear position, if someone does some virtue to me, I will never forget it, never... But I won’t be binded to them either. This virtue will remain, but I will do some other virtue somewhere else. But not a pecuniary one. A virtuous man shouldn’t think only about money. If one can show more virtue, the first virtue shouldn’t be an obstacle to the second. – You say that small reproaches are better than long, praiseful toasts. When was the last time someone made you a personal reproach, if you remember? – Of course I remember. I have received many reproaches, and I always listen to all of them. Even if small children give me a reproach, I will listen. – For instance? – For instance, once, I was taking part in a TV show, and Guram Bakradze (famous pedagogue and choirmaster) told me: “You mentioned yourself many times – “I brought this, that from the archives...”. It is the truth, but I don’t want someone to think that you are doing this to establish yourself.” I didn’t think about myself at all, I was just saying where I had been and what I had brought from which archive. But this person understood that it could be perceived differently... After that episode, I never mentioned my name. It actually had a very beneficial effect on me. I can tell you another story. During a recent rehearsal, I was teaching some song to a small child, and he told me that it was too complicated for him, and that I should maybe teach him something easier. And I understood that I shouldn’t base my teaching on my capabilities, but those of the children. I understood and taught as he asked, and he was absolutely right. I listen to everybody, everybody! – You said that you have visited more than 80 countries. This is a quite rare feat for someone of your generation. How do you see Georgia from that perspective?

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– From these 80 countries, there are some that I have visited very often, for instance France. I just got back from Japan, where I spent a month and a half, and which I had also visited several times before. As for Georgia, today, we are discussing and confronting each other about our bad parts, which is right. But our good part is always stronger. Georgia has some traits to which no other country could compare.

wels vuaxlovdebi. aRar aris is energia. marto codna ar gansazRvravs, bevri detalia, romelic Znelia. _ magaliTad, ra? _ jer kidev SemiZlia muSaoba, magram mirCevnia, axalgazrdebma gaagrZelon saqme, romelic aqamde moviyvane. naxevari saukune sakmarisia imisTvis, rom adamianma erTi da igive saqme akeTos. _ batono anzor, marTla mainteresebs, axali samxatvro xelmZRvaneli ras gaakeTebs Tqvenze ukeTesad? _ me ar vambob, rom ukeTesad gaakeTebs, an uaresad. musikalur xelmZRvanelad mainc vrCebi. magram samxatvro xelmZRvanelis roli Zalian didia. musikis garda, imdeni saqmea. vatyob, rom me is aRar var. arc is energia maqvs, rac axalgazrdobaSi mqonda. Znelia imis sityviT gadmocema, rac am 50 wlis ganmavlobaSi vakeTe. „rusTavs“ ukve yvelaferi aqvs. axla warmarTos axalgazrdam. cuds amaSi verafers vxedav. _ cuds ki ver vxedav, magram formaluri mgonia samxatvro xelmZRvanelis Secvlis ambavi. ver warmomidgenia, rom realuri xelmZRvaneli vinme sxva iyos iq, sadac Tqven fizikurad xarT. _ rac dasWirdebaT, iqve var, Sors ar wavsulvar. koncertebs me vakeTeb, programas me vakeTeb. danarCenze axalgazrdebma aiRon pasuxismgebloba. „rusTavi“ Cemi pirmSoa, magram sanam cocxali var, mudmivad misi xelmZRvaneli viyo, ar vakadreb Cems Tavs. _ Tqveni karieris ganmavlobaSi sul iyaviT im poziciaSi, roca Tqveni pasuxismgebloba iyo adamianTa jgufis marTva. rogori mmarTveli xarT _ ufro zrunvaze orientirebuli, Tu ufro kontrolze? _ yvela saqmeSi, roca xelmZRvaneli xar, diplomati unda iyo. adamianebTan urTierToba unda SegeZlos. aramarto simReris swavleba, aramed _ urTierToba. yvelas gansxvavebuli buneba da xasiaTi aqvs. CemTvis zrunva ufro metia da kontrolic TavisTavad aris. magram ufro meti Cemi cxovrebis ganmavlobaSi iyo sxvaze zrunva da, rac ki SemeZlo, yvelafris gakeTeba ama Tu im adamianisTvis. zrunva da zrunva... _ Tqven ambobT, rom „adamiani, visac Sewyalebis, monaniebisa da madlierebis grZnoba ar gaaCnia, metad saSiSi pirovnebaa.“ madlierebaze minda gkiTxoT. Cveni erT-erTi Zalian saintereso stumris giorgi urCuxiSvilis azriT, madlierebis grZnoba amuxruWebs adamians, raRac uxilavi ZafebiT abams im adamianTan, visi madlieric obieqturad unda iyos. Tqven Tu gqoniaT SemTxveva, roca raRacis gakeTeba CagiTvliaT saWirod, magram ver gagikeTebiaT

– For example? – Georgians are kind by nature. If external powers do not disbalance it, it – I mean Georgia as a nation – is kind. – Rusudan Petviashvili told us the same thing. – Apart from that, Georgians were always hospitable. They are also traditional by nature. The qualities I have listed also characterize Japanese people. But I have never seen anyone welcoming guests like we do, anywhere. You don’t have money, you will take a loan, bring your guest somewhere, show them respect, and do everything you can so they go to their country with a good impression of Georgia. I would also add that the kindness we have done was not received from others. Perhaps Georgians were fleeing solitude when they created polyphonic songs?! I am saying this because no matter how much they argue with each other, in the end, Georgians always find mutual understanding and harmony. If that had not been the case, we wouldn’t be here. – During one of your interviews, they asked you what you regret, do you remember what you answered? – No. – You said that you spent a lot of time in vain, that you could have done more. – I was right. – Mr. Anzor, what are you dissatisfied about? – How can I not be dissatisfied? When you have lived your life and look at the path you’ve walked from above, if you do not see your mistakes and if you cannot look at yourself from some distance, then you will not achieve anything. And I understood that I could have done more about this or that aspect, that I didn’t use the time I had in an optimal way. I couldn’t take full advantage of Artem Erkomaishvili, my grandfather, with whom I was every day – he raised me for 27 years. For instance, if only I had spent more time with him when I came to Tbilisi, I could have recorded and learned much more. Artem was not a mere folk and chant singer. He was a wise man, from whom you could learn everything. I didn’t manage to use many people I have known in a beneficial way. I could have taken more from them. For instance, my teacher Givi Lortkipanidze, who also raised me, or Shalva Aslanishvili... I have made many such mistakes. If I could return to my childhood with the perspective I have now, I would do much more than I have done.

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– I couldn’t fail to ask you a question about one of the things

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viRacis mimarT madlierebis grZnobis gamo? _ madls RmerTi akeTebs, oRond, adamianis xeliT. iseTi madliani saqme minaxavs gakeTebuli, adamiani imas ver gaswvdeboda, mxolod RmerTis xeli urevia. am SemTxvevaSi, Cemi poziciac aseTia, me Tu vinmem madli gamikeTa, imas arasodes ar daviviwyeb, arasodes... magram mibmuli masze ar viqnebi. es madli rCeba, magram me sxvagan sxva madls gavakeTeb. oRond, ara fuladi anazRaurebisTvis. madliani kaci marto fulze ar unda fiqrobdes. ukeTesi madliani saqme Tu SeuZlia gaakeTos, Zveli madli axals ver daabrkolebs. _ grZel, saqebar sadRegrZeloebs mokle SeniSvna gerCioso, ambobT. bolos rodis migiRiaT SeniSvna piradad Tqven, Tu gaxsovT? _ rogor ar maxsovs? bevrjer mouciaT SeniSvna da me yvelas vusmen. patara bavSvma rom momces SeniSvna, imasac vusmen.

you said: “If you have a worthy heir for your endeavor, don’t be afraid of death”. You have done so much for folk music, you have raised so many people – is there someone about whom you can say “This person is continuing my work, and I am at peace”? – I could have said it in the plural form – worthy heirs. Then the answer would have been easier. I used the word heir as a collective. Let us not discuss what life is, it has been valued in thousands of ways. Humans live and are valued according to what they have achieved in their lifetime. The longer someone remembers their deeds, the longer they are kept “alive”. For instance, Shota Rustaveli will live as long as there will be Georgia. When grandfather was dying, he told me – “Eh, the ones who live a long life are those who have a good reputation.” If the people I have raised will continue my work – be it good or bad, let’s not judge it – I will live for a long time.

_ magaliTad? _ magaliTad, erTxel telegadacemaSi vmonawileobdi da guram baqraZem miTxra (cnobili pedagogi da lotbari iyo): Zalian bevrjer axsene Seni Tavi _ arqivebidan es Camovitane, is Camovitaneo... marTla asea, magram vinmem ar ifiqros, rom Seni Tavis damkvidrebisTvis akeTeb amaso. me sul ar mifiqria Cems Tavze, ubralod, CamovTvale, sad viyavi da romeli arqividan ra Camovitane. magram im adamians es cudad moxvda yurSi... imis Semdeg Cemi gvaris xseneba ar yofila. aman gaWra, Cemze dadebiTad imoqmeda. kidev getyviT. repeticiaze amis win erT patara bavSvs raRac simReras vaswavlidi da miTxra, rom es Zalian rTulia CemTviso da iqneb ufro cota ioli raRac maswavloo. da mivxvdi, rom, ese igi, me Cemi SesaZleblobidan ki nu gamovdivar, bavSvis SesaZleblobidan unda gamovide. mivxvdi da vaswavle is, rac bavSvma miTxra da absoluturad marTali iyo. me yvelas vusmen, yvelas.

– Do you believe they will? – I do, and I will always do. There are four or five persons who are completely dedicated to the work I have started, and who are working zealously about it. Therefore, I am sure that they will extend my life much longer. I will not name them, so nobody else gets disappointed – there might be many more.

_ Tqven brZaneT, rom 80-ze met qveyanaSi xarT namyofi. es sakmaod iSviaTi gamocdilebaa Cvens TaobaSi. am gamocdilebidan gamomdinare mainteresebs _ saqarTvelo rogori qveyanaa? _ am 80-dan zogierT qveyanaSi Zalian bevrjer var namyofi, magaliTad, safrangeTSi. axla davbrundi iaponiidan, sadac bolos Tvenaxevari viyavi da manamdec araerTxel vyofilvar. rac Seexeba saqarTvelos. dRes vdavobT da vkamaTobT Cvens cud Tvisebebze, rac sworia. magram dadebiTi swonis yovelTvis. saqarTvelos zogierTi iseTi Tviseba aqvs, romliTac sxva qveynebi ver Seedreba.

– Thank you very much for such an interesting conversation. We will finish the interview with your commentary about quotes from two famous people. The first quote is from Roman philosopher Seneca: “Life, if well lived, is long enough”. – Yes, the number of years is not important. Maybe you cannot live for “enough” time, but achieve something great, and vice-versa. At 26, Einstein had already authored the Theory of Relativity. He made it to 80 years old, but remains in history as the author of that theory. So the merits of someone, or if they have lived “enough”, is measured not by the number of years, but the things they have accomplished. – The author of the second quote is writer Franz Kafka (18831924): “There are many obstacles in one’s life, and they grow in

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_ magaliTad? _ qarTveli kaci bunebiT keTilSobilia. Tu gare Zalebi ar gamoiyvanen wonasworobidan, bunebiT _ eri maqvs mxedvelobaSi _ keTilSobilia. _ sxvaTa Soris, rusudan fetviaSvilma gviTxra igive. _ amis garda, qarTveli kaci yovelTvis iyo stumarTmoyvare. kidev, bunebiT tradiciebis mimdevaria. rac CamovTvale, es Tvisebebi iaponelebs axasiaTebT. magram stumris aseTi miReba, rac CvenTan ician, sxvagan ar minaxavs. jibeSi fuli ar gaqvs, isesxeb, moiyvan stumars, pativs scem da yvelafers aCveneb, rom saqarTveloze kargi azriT wavides Tavis qveyanaSi _ amas sxva aravin gaakeTebs. imasac vityvi, rom sikeTe, rac Cven gagvikeTebia, sxvisgan ar migviRia. iqneb, martoobas gaurboda qarTveli, roca mravalxmiani simRera Seqmna?! amas imitom vambob, rom rac ar unda ikamaTon, qarTvelebi bolos mainc unisonSi modian erTmaneTTan. ase rom ar yofiliyo, aqamde ver movaRwevdiT.

_ gaqvT, xom, es rwmena? _ maqvs da sul meqneba. 4-5 kaci aris iseTi, romelic gadamkvdaria Cem mier dawyebul saqmeze da am saqmes WapaniviT eweva win. amitom, darwmunebuli var, rom isini didxans macocxleben. ar CamovTvli, rom sxvas guli ar daswydes, SeiZleba, kidev bevria aseTi.

_ erT-erTi blicintervius dros gkiTxes, ras nanobTo da gaxsovT, ra upasuxeT? _ ara. _ aseTi ram uTxariT: Cemi cxovrebis didi dro uqmad davxarje, metis gakeTeba SemeZloo. _ sworad mipasuxia. _ batono anzor, riTi xarT ukmayofilo? _ ukmayofilo rogor ar var. roca cxovrebas gaivli kaci da zemodan gadaxedav ganvlil gzas, Tu Seni Secdomebi ver dainaxe da Tu Sens Tavs saerTod gverdidan ar uyure, ise Sen verafers ver gaakeTeb. da me davinaxe, rom am xnis ganmavlobaSi, axalgazrduli gatacebiT, SeiZleba, raRacasTan dakavSirebiT, ufro meti saqmis gakeTeba SemeZlo Turme da ver gamoviyene. ver gamoviyene artem erqomaiSvili, babua, romelTanac yoveldRe viyavi, 27 weli mzrdida. Tundac is, rom TbilisSi rom wamovedi, masTan meti vyofiliyavi, ufro mets Caviwerdi, ufro bevrs viswavlidi. artemi marto mgalobeli da momRerali ar iyo. is iyo brZeni kaci, romlisganac yvelafris swavla SegeZlo. me ver gamoviyene bevri iseTi adamiani, romelTanac urTierToba mqonda. metis aReba SemeZlo maTgan. Tundac, givi lorTqifaniZes gavixseneb, Cems maswavlebels, romelmac gamzarda; Tundac, Salva aslaniSvils... bevri aseTi Secdoma maqvs daSvebuli. am WkuiT rom davbrunde Cems bavSvobaSi, gacilebiT mets gavakeTebdi, vidre aqamde gavakeTe. _ ar SemiZlia ar gkiTxoT erTi Tqveni „nafiqralis“

Sesaxeb: „Tu Seni saqmis Rirseuli gamgrZelebeli gyavs, sikvdilisa nu geSinia.“ amdeni Rvawli gaqvT musikaluri folkloris sferoSi, amdeni adamiani gazardeT da arsebobs vinme erTi _ viszec SegiZliaT TqvaT: „es adamiani agrZelebs Cems saqmes da me mSvidad var“? _ SeiZleboda, mravlobiTSi meTqva _ gamgrZeleblebi. maSin ufro gaadvildeboda pasuxi. gamgrZelebeli krebiT saxelad CavTvale. sicocxle ra aris, amaze nu vimsjelebT axla, aTasnairad aris Sefasebuli. adamiani cocxlobs da fasdeba imis mixedviT, rac man gaakeTa Tavisi arsebobis ganmavlobaSi. rac ufro didxans movigonebT mis gakeTebul saqmes, ufro didxans vacocxlebT. magaliTad, sanam saqarTvelo iarsebebs, manam SoTa rusTaveli sul iqneba. babua rom kvdeboda, miTxra _ eh, didxans is kaci cocxlobs, visac didi saxeli rCebao. Tu Cems saqmes gaagrZeleben Cemi gazrdilebi _ kargia Tu cudia es saqme, nuRar SevafasebT _ maSin me didxans vicocxleb.

_ didi madloba saintereso saubrisTvis. intervius davasrulebT Tqveni komentariT cnobili adamianebis or gamonaTqvamze. pirveli citata ekuTvnis romael filosofoss, senekas (Zv.w. 4 _ ax.w. 65): „ganvlili wlebis raodenoba verasodes gvaiZulebs, vaRiaroT, rom sakmarisad vicxovreT“. _ diax, wlebis raodenoba ar aris mTavari. SeiZleba „sakmarisad didxans“ ver icxovro, magram didi saqme gaakeTo, da piriqiT. 26 wlis ainStaini ukve fardobiTobis Teoriis avtori iyo. 80 wlamde miaRwia, magram istorias darCa, rogorc fardobiTobis Teoriis avtori. ase rom, adamianis Rvawli, „sakmarisad cxovreba“ ganisazRvreba ara wlebis raodenobiT, aramed, misi gakeTebuli saqmis mixedviT. _ meore citatis avtoria germanulenovani mwerali franc kafka (1883-1924): „cxovrebaSi bevri dabrkoleba arsebobs da isini miT ufro maRalia, rac metad maRalia miznebi.“ _ absoluturad veTanxmebi. aviRoT Cemi konkretuli mizani. Cveulebriv simReris maswavleblad rom davrCeniliyavi, bevrad ioli iqneboda Cemi saqmis keTeba. magram mere gamiCnda pretenzia, rom simRerebi unda moviZio; mere gamiCnda pretenzia, rom es simRerebi bavSvebs unda vaswavlo; mere gamiCnda pretenzia, rom ucxoeTis arqivebSi unda moviZio qarTuli xalxuri

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simRerebis Zveli Canawerebi; mere gamiCnda pretenzia, rom didi arqivi unda movagrovo, rom mTel saqarTvelos moefinos qarTuli xalxuri simRera da sagalobeli _ es Cemi azrebi iyo _ yvelaferi umaRles doneze unda gavakeTo, simRera unda gadavarCino... aq marto Cemze ar aris laparaki, Cemi monawileobiT vambob mTel am Sromas. da rac ufro maRal safexurze avdiodi, miT meti winaaRmdegoba mxvdeboda. nu ggoniaT, rom yvelas uxaroda, rasac vakeTebdi. ramdeni kritika, ramdeni Seuracxyofa, ramdeni sirTule gaviare. didi, Zalian didi Seuracxyofebi gadamitania, magram mainc mivdiodi im kibeze, mivbobRavdi, rom rogorme iq avsuliyavi, zeviT, gadasaxedze, saidanac Canda, am gzis ganmavlobaSi ra gavakeTe _ da Cemi TavisTvis meTqva: dadebiTad vafaseb Cems saqmianobas Tu uaryofiTad. ase viare, am winaaRmdegobebiT, romlebsac vZlevdi Cemi politikiT, Cemi SromismoyvareobiT. rac SemeZlo, yvelafriT vibrZodi da, bolos da bolos, winaaRmdegobebi davZlie. rogor davZlie, es sxva saqmea. simRera rom ukvdavi gaxado _ Zalian bevri energia gWirdeba, Zalian bevri Sroma, bevri dakvirveba, didi diplomatia...

proportion to one’s goals.” I completely agree. Let’s take my own goal specifically. If I had remained a simple singing teacher, my job would have been much easier. But then, a wish appeared in me, the ambition appeared to search for and gather songs; then the ambition to teach these songs to children. Then the ambition to go look for old recordings of Georgian folk songs in archives abroad. Then, the ambition to assemble a large archive that would spread Georgian folk songs and chants to the whole territory of Georgia – this is how it happened. I wanted to do everything perfectly, and to save folk songs... It wasn’t only about me, I am talking about what I was doing in the name of all my colleagues. And the higher I reached, the more obstacles I met. Do you think everyone liked what I was doing? I had to bear with many critics, insults, and difficulties. I have put up with terrible things, but would always continue walking up the mountain, to somehow reach the top, from where I would see what I had achieved while walking that path – and evaluate it. This is how I walked, with many obstacles, which I would overcome with my diplomacy and hard work. I did everything I could, and in the end, I managed to overcome them. How? This is another story. In order to make a song immortal, you need a lot of energy, a lot of work, a lot of

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qeTevan kokozaSvili

avtobiografia portreti lali gulisaSvilisa KETEVAN KOKOZASHVILI

AUTOBIOGRAPHY

LALI GULISASHVILI’S PORTRAIT

win midevs ori momcro krebuli poeziisa da TumaniSvilis TeatrSi gamarTuli Sexvedra maxsendeba. cota dagvianebiT misuli bolo rigis ganapira skamidan kargad vxedavdi xalxiT savse darbazs da, raRa davmalo, cota mikvirda Cvens gauxeSebul, metismetad prozaul da poeziisgan sruliad daclil droSi amdeni adamiani leqsis siyvaruls rom gamoeyvana saxlidan. am cota mokrZalebuli formatis wignebSi ganfenilia sruliad gamorCeuli da TviTmyofadi poeturi sivrce, sulieri samyaro lali gulisaSvilisa, ufaqizesi grZnobebi da SegrZnebebi, zogjer locvasaviT fiqrebi, uRrmesi sevda da martooba, mogonebebi da monatreba, warsuli da awmyo, sofeli da qalaqi. bolos da bolos ra aris poezia Tu ara poetis sulieri avtobiografia… svla xilulidan uxilavisken, Secnobilidan Seucnoblisken, nacnobi gzebidan uvali gzebisken. ase unda miaRwios poetma `zeciur bilikebamde~; manamde ki Zalian bevri unda iaros axlodan Soramde, bevrjer daiRalos da daisvenos, bevrjer gauwvimdes da mere mzem gamounaTos, zogjer hqondes SegrZneba, TiTqos ,,yvela dRe ise Savia, rom SeiZleba, arc ki gaTendes“, mere ki iseTi simSvide hpovos, ,,TiTqos gZinavs da gadaxdil sabans gaxurebs“ mama. lali gulisaSvilis gamxelil fiqrebsa da sizmrebSi, mis ufaqizes poetur xilvebSi `SeSliliviT sufTa da wminda~ Sinagani samyaro ikveTeba; igrZnoba Zalian gulwrfeli da marTali xma, zogjer TiTqmis bavSvur gulubryvilobamde misuli da am leqsebis nawyvet-nawyveti sunTqva TandaTan neli mdinarebiT aRwevs Cvenamde, `rogorc zRapari tyeSi dakargul oboli biWis...“ da am zRaparSi bavSvobis mogonebebs sul sxva feri da surneli aqvT. drois

I have two small volumes of selected poems in front of me, and I am reminded of a gathering that took place at the Tumanishvili Theater. I had arrived a bit late, and from the outer seat of the last row, I had a good view of the crowded hall, and to say the truth, I was a bit surprised that in those difficult times, times that were overly prosaic and completely devoid of poetry, the love for poems still brought so many people out of their houses. These books of a somewhat modest format offer the very distinguished and self-sufficient poetic space that makes up Lali Gulisashvili’s spiritual world, with the most refined feelings and sensations, sometimes thoughts that are remindful of prayers, a deep sadness and solitude, memories and longing, past and present, countryside and city. After all, what is poetry, if not a spiritual autobiography of a poet… The path from the visible to the invisible, from the conscious to the unconscious, from the roads we know to the ones that haven’t been taken. This is how poets reach “heavenly paths”; before that, they have to walk an awful lot between what is close and what is far, they have to get tired and rest, to experience rain many times before the sunlight, and sometimes have the feeling that “each day is so dark, that the Sun might not even rise”, and then, find a peacefulness remindful of when “you are asleep, and your father arranges the blanket” so that you aren’t cold. In the thoughts and dreams that Lali Gulisashvili offers us, in her most refined poetic visions, one can distinguish an “insanely clean and pure” inner world; we hear a very honest and truthful voice, one that sometimes attains childish innocence, and the bit-by-bit breathing of these poems gradually and slowly reaches us, “like the tale of a boy lost in the woods…” And childhood memories have a completely different tone and aroma in this tale. Naturally, the passing of time fades many things, but that sky, that star, that village

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mdinareba, rasakvirvelia, bevr rames afermkrTalebs, magram is ca, is varskvlavi, soflis amayi da sevdiani, `mowyenili CitiviT~ mdgari saydari, TovliviT damdnari sayvareli adamianebi ar qrebian. sulier dro-sivrceSi cocxlobs, mistikurad grZeldeba is, rac materialurad Sewyda. `dabruneba Zvel saxlSi~ es maradiuli dabrunebaa iq, saidanac arasdros wasulxar. Tbilisidan giorgiwmindamde da giorgiwmindidan Tbilisamde gzaa `arc ise Sori, arc ise axlo“. am gzas mihyavxar siyvarulis karTan, aq gardasuli wamebi, wuTebi da saaTebi gaCerebulia. Tundac zogjer gqondes SegrZneba, rom cariel saxlSi verc ki etevi... aq isev trialebs bebias moxarSuli vardis murabis jadosnuri aromati, aq, sxvenze, isev dagxvdeba Zveli dabzaruli Tixis WurWeli, rkinis uTo da damsxvreuli Tojina, ase axloblebi da erTgulebi. ablabudebSi Semalula Zveli sevda da wiTel kramits Semounaxavs xsovna yvelasi da yvelafrisa, rac mTavaria ici, rom xilvebSi grZeldeba Zveli zRapari:

church standing proudly yet sadly, like a “downcast bird”, the people we love, who have melted like snow – those things do not fade away. They live in a spiritual space and time, and what might have ended in a material world goes on in a mystical realm. “Returning in an old home” is an eternal return to the place that you have never left. The road from Tbilisi to Giorgitsminda and from Giorgitsminda to Tbilisi is “neither that long, nor that short”. You follow this road to the gates of love, and here, the seconds, minutes and hours that have passed are stopped. You might have the feeling that you cannot even fit in an empty home… Here, the magic aromas of the rose jam prepared by grandma are still present, here, in the attic, you will still find the old, cracked clay crockery, the old iron and broken doll, they are still close and loyal to you. You realize that your past sadness has hid itself behind cobwebs, and that the red roof tiles have preserved the memory of every person and every detail, and most importantly, you know that the old tale continues in these visions:

“My loved ones have come back: This cypress tree is grandpa, This silverberry – grandma, This black poplar – father, This pomegranate flower – mother; And this pine tree is lit like a candle For the memory of all…” One of her great-grandfathers was Ilia Chavchavadze’s friend and held the same views as the latter; he was a founder and teacher at schools in Adjara and Zugdidi, while another great-grandfather was a priest who arranged the construction of the Giorgitsminda Church and who donated its gate to the Kashueti Church, which can still be seen at the old entrance of the church. Her grandparents and parents were teachers of French, German, and Russian languages. When you

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`damibrundnen Cemianebi: es kiparisi papaa da fSati-bebia, alvis xe-mama, broweulis yvavili-deda, fiWvi ki xsovnis sanTeliviT unTia yvelas...“

erTi didi papa ilias megobari da Tanamoazre, aWarasa da zugdidSi skolebis damfuZnebeli da maswavlebeli, meore _ mRvdeli, mas auSenebia giorgiwmindis eklesia, masve Seuwiravs qaSueTis eklesiisTvis karibWe, romelic dRemde hkidia Zvel SesasvlelSi; papebi da bebia, deda da mama frangulis, germanulis, rusulis maswavleblebi. roca aseTi winaprebi gyavs, monatrebis grZnobac mZafrdeba, Tumca maTi sinaTle da sikeTe mudam Tan gaxlavs da yofiT tkivilebsac gimsubuqebs. sityvebis samyaro lali gulisaSvilis umTavresi metafizikuri sivrce da sayrdenia. aq is ganuwyvetliv idumal xmaTa gamorCevasa da ZiebaSia da ase iqmneba erTi mTliani melodia, mTliani ambavi siyvarulisa da imedgacruebisa, sixarulisa da dardisa, sinanulisa da natvrisa, sizmrisa da cxadisa; ambavi gamxelili Tu gaumxeleli, nagulisxmevi Tu sityvebiT gamoxatuli da yvelaferi iseTi marTali, rom erTi yalbi poeturi notic ki ar gaxmiandeba. amitomac aris mkiTxvelisTvis aseTi axlobeli, xelSesaxebi da advilad sagrZnobi. sisadave da bunebrivi ubraloeba am poeturi samyaros erT-erTi mTavari niSani da maxasiaTebelia. sisadaves meti intimi, uSualoba da gaxsniloba Semoaqvs. es aris poetis gaazrebuli arCevani da garkveuli sirTulis winaSec ayenebs mas, martivi da ubralo leqsikiT, unda miaRwios emociis intensivobas da esTetikur srulyofilebas. es ki imas niSnavs, rom aq yoveli sityva zustia, Tandayolili alRoTi SerCeuli da nagrZnobi:

`mwvane mindorze degas naxatidan gamoparul balerinas hgavda TeTri gvirila...~

have such forerunners, the feeling of longing for them is heightened, though you constantly carry their warmth and kindness with you, alleviating your everyday worries. The realm of words is Lali Gulisashvili’s main metaphysical space and canvas. There, she is in a perpetual process of selection and search for silent, secret voices, and this is how one unified melody is created, a whole story of love and disillusionment, of happiness and sorrow, of regret and longing, of dreams and reality; known or undisclosed stories, implied or clearly expressed in words, and such truthful stories, that not one unauthentic poetic note stands out from the assembled harmony. This is why her poems are so familiar, tangible, and easy to experience for readers. Simplicity and natural modesty are some of the main characteristic features of her poetic world. Simplicity creates a more intimate, direct, and open feeling. This was a style chosen on purpose by the poet, one that actually makes her job more difficult, as she needs to achieve emotional intensity and aesthetic wholeness through the use of a simple vocabulary. And this means that in her poetry, every word is exact, selected with flair, and meaningful:

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On this green field, she looked like a ballerina who fled from a Degas painting, this white daisy…

meti arc araferia saWiro poetur-ferweruli tilos Sesaqmnelad. es qalis poeziaa qaluri sinaziTa da sinatifiT, sifaqiziTa da grZnobaTa simZafriT, magram, imavdroulad, aqaa qali, romelmac gauZlo, gadaitana, aitana da gaumklavda, radgan poezias SeuZlia gausaZlisi gasaZlisad aqcios, dardi gaaqarvos. yvelaferi iyo mis cxovrebaSi: bevri siZnele, oblobac, imedgacruebac, marto darCenac, sxvanairad aseTi simZafre da dramatizmi ar eqneboda saTqmels:

You don’t need anything else in order to create a poetic-pictorial painting. This is a woman’s poetry, with feminine delicacy and refinement, but at the same time, we can feel that his woman has suffered, endured, handled and survived many obstacles, because poetry can make the unbearable bearable, and dissipate sorrow. She experienced everything: many difficulties, orphanhood, disillusionment, solitude – otherwise, these words wouldn’t have been as tense and dramatic:

Turme siyvarulis zarebs, ucxo karze daurekavs, Sewyda molodinis cremli, qars Rrublebi gaurekavs... Cauvlia gazafxulebs, siCumea saocari, yvelaferi damkargvia, ver micvnia salocavi... Turme siyvarulis zarebs, ucxo karze daurekavs, qars Rrublebi TiknebiviT samxreTisken gaurekavs... damviwynia feri Sindis, saxe saocnebo freskis, mivdgomivar ucxo kars da araferi aRar mesmis...

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It turned out the bells of love Have rung on an unknown door, The tear of longing has stopped rolling down, Wind has dispersed the clouds… Springs have passed, There is an unbearable silence, It seems I lost everything, It seems I couldn’t recognize this chapel… It turned out the bells of love Have rung on an unknown door, The wind has dispersed the clouds To the South, like goatlings. It seems I forgot the color of dogwood, The appearance of the ideal fresco, I arrived at an unknown door and I don’t understand anything anymore… No worthy poetry has ever been created without human suffering and ordeals, and the weight existence puts on our shoulders sometimes requires us to look for some kind of support, to search another person with whom you can share, tell, disclose what you are experiencing, and who will listen. During those times, you will call out your father from the other world, because spiritual relations are perpetual, they are eternal: adamianuri tkivilebisa da gancdebis gareSe arasdros Seqmnila Rirebuli poezia, yofis simZime ki zogjer moiTxovs dasayrdenis Ziebas, meore adamians, visac gauziareb, mouyvebi, gaumxel, vinc mogismens. am dros mamasac gamoixmob im samyarodan, radgan sulieri kavSirebi uwyvetia, maradiulia:

I am coming from very far, Father, And each day is so dark, That the Sun Might never even rise…

`Zalian Soridan movdivar,

You have never seen me like this,

mama,

And it is precisely because you cannot see me,

da yvela dRe ise Savia,

That I have come to you…

rom SeiZleba arc ki gaTendes... Sen aseTi arasodes ar ginaxivar da rom ver mxedav, swored mitom movedi SenTan...“

Sometimes, you might feel so lonely, you might suffer so much from solitude, that it becomes difficult to bear, and you might experience days “like dying celebrations”, full of doubt, torment, longing, patience… But the cosmic oneness of this world then comes into play, everybody and everything is connected to each other in a mysterious, secret way; humans are linked to each other in a particularly spiritual, mystical way, and sometimes, “one could save another person without even knowing them”:

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This night is terrible, Io,

zogjer SeiZleba ise martod grZnobde Tavs, iseTi martosulobis gancda gqondes, rom gaZleba giWirdes, dRe iyos, `rogorc momakvdavi dResaswauli“, aRsavse eWviT, wvalebiT, lodiniT, TmeniT, magram aq samyaros kosmiuri erTianobis kanoni moqmedebs, yvela da yvelaferi gamoucnobi, idumali kavSiriT ebmis erTmaneTs, adamianebi gansakuTrebuli sulieri, mistikuri erTianobiT arian gadajaWvulni da SeiZleba `erTimeores arc ki icnobdnen, ise uSvelon“:

Your name fills me with turmoil Sometimes these things happen… You know this better than me! And in the whiteness of the snow, Unfamiliar figures are roaming, I have never asked you:

axla iseTi Ramea, io,

Why the dawn breaks, or the night falls…

ar SeiZleba Seni xseneba,

And today, the night is terrible, Io, And I cry in your absence.

xandaxan xdeba raRac iseTi...

We can save one another

Sen Cemze ukeT mogexseneba!

Without even having met…

gareT Tovlia... da siTeTreSi borialoben ucxo landebi, me xom arasdros mikiTxavs SenTvis: visTvis Tendebi, visTvis Ramdebi... da dRes iseTi Ramea, io, cremli mereva, rom var uSenod, Cven SegviZlia erTimeores arc ki vicnobdeT, ise vuSveloT... aq sityva iseTi damyolia, xSirad masSi cocxldeba da ibadeba melodia, mSvidi, neli, metwilad minoruli akordebiT, magram haerovani da rbili musikiT. mTlianad am leqsebis sityvier qsovils enisa da bgeris, ferisa da saxeebis gansakuTrebuli silbo aqvs da amitomac qmnian Tavisebur JReradobas; ufro metic _ aq Tavad

These words are so easy-going that a calm, slow melody mainly composed of minor chords often can come to life when reading them – the melody might be sad, but it is composed of an ethereal and soft music. As a rule, the lexical fabric of Lali Gulisashvili’s poems have a particular gentleness to them in terms of language, sound, colors, and imagery, and this is why they resonate so much. What’s more, here, people themselves can look like a Gershwin tune, and blackbirds can twitter so sweetly that it might seem “they know every prayer”. Here, music is like an anchor point, and this is why the songs created with Lali Gulisashvili’s texts are in such harmony with Nana Janelidze’s film ‘Iavnana’. I selected this poem because of its atmosphere and rhythm:

The star of the dawn has lit, Night, you pass so fast! I have nothing to do – I am drowning in sorrow, Crying you, remembering you… You are in my heart and tears are rolling down, Love is a stranger to me, The dawn has arrived… I am seeing off the night, Embracing sorrow… Profound lassitude has arrived, Night, you pass so fast! The star of the dawn has lit, I am crying you, remembering you… Sometimes, a stream of the rhythm and intonation of folk poetry, as well as the ethereal character, lightness and insouciance of the latter infiltrate her poems so naturally, that they become an integral part of the unified poetic space, and blend with marvelous harmony in this whole melodic fabric:

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adamiani SeiZleba gerSvinis musikas hgavdes, an SaSvi ise tkbilad galobdes, `TiTqos yvela locva icis“. aq musika sayrdeni wertiliviTaa da amitom mouxda Zalian lali gulisaSvilis teqstebze Seqnili simRerebi nana janeliZis film `iavnanas“. me ki ganwyobisa da ritmis gamo es leqsi gamovarCie:

ainTo ciskris varskvlavi, Ramev, ra male Tendebi! saqme ara maqvs _ Tavs virTob, gitireb, gamaxsendebi... gulSi gikrav da cremli mdis, siyvaruls ar var Cveuli, Tendeba... Rames vacileb sevdas xelgadaxveuli... mowyenis Jami damdgara, Ramev, ra male Tendebi! amodis ciskris varskvlavi, gitireb, gamaxsendebi... zogjer xalxuri leqsis ritmul-intonaciuri nakadi, haerovneba, simsubuqe da silaRe ise bunebrivad da TavisTavad Semodis, rom mTliani poeturi sivrcis ganuyofeli nawili xdeba da am erTian melodiur qsovils gasaocari harmoniiT erwymis:

Come, spread your light, Follow the steep mountain,

amodi, amoanaTe,

Embrace me and ask me:

mTas gadmohyevi frialos,

“Wretched mist, what do you think?”…

Camexvie da CamkiTxe:

I was waiting for you with impatience,

“nislo, ras hfiqrob, tialo”...

I have soaked the sands with tears,

undoblad gelodebodi,

Come, spread your light,

cremliT davalbe qviSani,

I don’t want your rings...

amodi, amoanaTe,

I want to be lit like a candle On the horn of a deer,

ar minda beWed-niSani...

So that I can light your way

kelaptariviT damanTe,

On these cruel lands…

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miuxedavad imisa, rom am `martoobis zRaparSi~, sevda da naRveli xan SeiZleba cremlebadac iqces, aqedan mainc sxva sinaTle modis, Tbili, kamkama, aumRvreveli, spetaki, sufTa. es siyvarulis, mSvenierebisa da sinaTlis poeziaa, aq `aris raRac Cauqroblad didi, aris raRac dauwvelad wminda~ da am esTetikurad daxvewili, wminda poeturi samyarodan gadmoRvrili Suqi imdenad yovlismomcvelia, Cndeba gancda, TiTqos poetis `sulSi aTasi mze iwvis“; es is naTelia, sul rom Cans da igrZnoba, sul rom Tan dahyveba yovel sityvasa da striqons da moedineba `mdinaresaviT mudam mdinari“. es aris poetis sizmar-cxadi, sulieri avtobiografia soflis Zveli saxlidan meliqiSvilis quCis patara, myudro binamde. rac mTavaria, swored am sada da sevdian simyudroveSi `uarafrobiT mdidars~ SeuZlia Tqvas: sul yvelaferi iyo namdvili da araferze guli ar mwydeba...

Despite the fact that in this “tale of solitude”, grief and sorrow can sometimes transform into tears, it is a different kind of light that emanates from these poems – a warm, twinkling, unclouded, unblemished, pure one. This is a poetry of love, beauty, and light, it contains “something so large it cannot be extinguished, something so pure it cannot be burned”, and the light radiating from this aesthetically refined, pure poetic world is so all-embracing, that one has the feeling that “a thousand suns are burning in the soul” of the poet; this is the illumination that can always be felt, the one that accompanies every word and verse, and runs down “always flowing, like a river”. This is the spiritual autobiography of the poet, between dream and reality, from her old village house to her small, cozy apartment on Melikishvili street. More importantly, it is precisely in this modest and melancholic tranquility, that “rich from being poor”, she can say: Everything was true And I do not regret anything…

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levan gigineiSvili stumrad ia anTaZesTan „adamianSi adamianis Camoyalibeba saidumloa~ Levan Gigineishvili with Ia Antadze

THE FORMATION OF MAN IN MAN IS A MYSTERY

_ levan, rogor fiqrobT, Tqveni cxovrebis manZilze ufro meti migiRiaT, Tu _ gagiciaT? _ rTuli kiTxvaa imitom, rom rac miviRe _ vici da rac gaveci _ ar vici. amaze arc vfiqrob. vici, rom imdeni unda gavce, ramdenic SemiZlia da mexaliseba. vici, rom bolomde unda davixarjo am gacemaSi. aseTi ucnauri wesi aqvs gacemas _ `rasaca gascem, Senia, rac ara, dakargulia~. gimravldeba kidec is, rac guliT gaeci. vTqvaT, leqcias atareb da saintereso saTqmeli gaqvs. zogjer ifiqreb _ modi, am saTqmels gadavdeb, momavali leqciisTvis movimarageb. ara, iqve Tqvi da ar dagekargeba. imas kidev axali saTqmeli mohyveba, axali cecxli da axali interesi. xalisiT gamcemi uyvars RmerTso, pavle mociquli ambobs erT epistoleSi. rac Seexeba imas, rac miviRe _

Levan, what do you think, in the course of your life, have you received more, or given more? This is a difficult question because I know what I have received, but I do not know what I have given. I never think about this. I know that I should give as much as I can and want. I know that I should be fully devoted to this “giving”. Giving has a strange rule - “whatever you give is yours. Whatever you keep is forever lost”. What you give with all your heart can even mutilply. Let us say you are giving a lecture and have something interesting to say. Sometimes, you may want to postpone saying that thing for the next lecture. But, no. You should always say what you have to say so that it does not get lost. It will be followed by a new thing to say, a new fire, a new interest. “God loves the glad giver,” says Paul the Apostle in one of his epistles. As for what I received, I received a lot from everyone;

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from my family, friends, teachers, coaches. I could make a big list of thank yous.

Zalian bevri miviRe yvelasgan: ojaxisgan, megobrebisgan, maswavleblebisgan, mwvrTnelebisgan. madlobebis didi CamonaTvali gamova. _ erTxel TqviT, ojaxSi sami biWi vizrdebodiT, me yvelaze umcrosi viyavi da, zRaprebidan gamomdinare, Tavs mudam umcrosi Zmis gansakuTrebul misiaSi aRviqvamdio. ra iyo es misia, Tqvens warmodgenaSi? _ is momwonda, rom umcrosi Zma rTul gzas irCevda. sxvebi Tu daiZinebdnen, roca jadosnuri xisTvis unda eyaraulaT da gveleSapis mosvlas unda dalodebodnen, umcrosi Zma bolomde fxizlobda. momwonda rTuli gzis arCeva imitom, rom rTul gzaze realobas ufro adekvaturad ecnoba adamiani. imas ki ar vambob, rom Cemi ufrosi Zmebi sxvanairebi arian, magram momwonda umcrosi Zmis simbolo; momwonda, rom zedapiruliT ar kmayofildeba da unda, siRrmeSi Sevides, namdvilad rac aris, anu movlenis arsi, is dainaxos, Tundac, riskis da sirTuleebis fasad. _ Tavgadasavali, romelic aucileblad axlavs umcros Zmas, Tqvens xvedrad Tu migaCniaT? _ vfiqrob, garkveuli azriT, asea. is, rac avirCie, guliT avirCie. Tavgadasavalic amas mohyva. Svidi weli momixda am Cemi TavgadasavliT ucxoeTSi cxovreba. jer ungreTSi viyavi erTi weli, mere belgiaSi erTi weli, mere isev ungreTSi oTxi weli, Semdeg _ amerikaSi. mTeli es odisea namdvilad saintereso iyo. darwmunebuli var, momavalSic igive iqneba. kvlevaSi, mogzaurobaSi midis Cemi cxovreba da es Zalian momwons. _ Tu migaCniaT, rom statusi ukve SeicvaleT, _ waxvediT, rac Tavgadasavali iyo, gadagxdaT da saxlSi axali statusiT dabrundiT? Tu jer kidev gzaSi xarT da ufro maRali statusiT dabruneba win gaqvT? _ statusi Sevicvale im gagebiT, rom manamde vswavlobdi, axla me TviTon vaswavli. manamde sxvebi miwerdnen rekomendaciebs, axla me vuwer sxvebs. magram mogzauroba ar dasrulebula, ra Tqma unda. sul axali gaqvs Sesacnobi da es Tu mokvda SenSi, sjobs, arc iyo akademiur sivrceSi. _ kidev aseTi ram gaqvT naTqvami _ bavSvobaSi, yvelaze bednier wuTebSic, xdeboda, rom raRac auxsneli mizeziT moviwyendi, raRacisken veswrafodi; maSin mindeboda wignebis wakiTxva, rom, iqneb, iq mepova Cemi swrafvis saganio. ra asakSi daiwyeT wignebidan imis miReba, rasac eZebdiT? _ albaT, TerTmeti-Tormeti wlidan. am dros raRac gansakuTrebuls eZeb. is horizontebi, rac Sen garSemoa, TiTqos, ar kmara. wignSi eZeb ufro farTo horizontebs, axlis Secnobas elodebi. SeiZleba, didobaSi ufro meti

You once said that you grew up in a family of three boys. Coming from fairytales, since you were the youngest, you probably viewed yourself as on a special mission. What was this mission, in your imagination? I liked that the youngest brother had the most difficult route. If the others went to sleep while they were supposed to guard the magic tree and wait for the dragon to arrive, the youngest brother would be wide awake. I liked choosing the difficult route because, on that route, a person is more in touch with reality. I am not saying that my older brothers are different. What I mean is I liked the image of the youngest brother. I liked that he was not satisfied with the superficial and that he had the need to dig deeper into everything. He had to see what was the essence of being, even at the cost of difficulties. Do you consider the adventure that comes with being the youngest brother your own? I believe it is true, to some extent. What I have chosen, I have chosen it with my heart, and then, the adventure followed. I lived abroad for seven years on this adventure of mine. First, I was in Hungary for a year. Then, in Belgium for one more year. Then, again in Hungary for four years and finally, in America. This odyssey was interesting. I am sure that the same will happen in the future. My life goes by in research and travel, which I like a lot. Do you consider that your status has changed? That when you left, during your adventure, you changed and came back with a different status? Or do you think that you are still on your journey and that you will reach even higher ranks? I changed statuses in the sense that I used to learn, and now I teach. My mentors used to write recommendations for me, now I write them for others. However, of course, my journey has not yet ended. There is always something new to discover. If this feeling dies, it is better to leave the academic world. You mentioned one more thing: in your childhood, in your happiest moments, for some unknown reason, you would randomly get sad. You were rushing towards something and got the urge to read books, in hopes of finding whatever you were rushing towards inside. At what age did you start finding what you were looking for in books? Probably from the age of twelve or thirteen. At that age, you are looking for something exceptional. The horizons that surround you do not seem to be wide enough. You look for even bigger ones in books. You are eager to learn something new. Maybe, when we grow up, more willpower is needed to see those new horizons. But, we, adults, also want to be this way. The Bible says that if you are not like a child, you will not enter heaven. This saying concerns adults. A 70-year-old person (or even older), should always strive to broaden

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Zalisxmevaa saWiro imisTvis, rom es axali horizontebi dainaxo. magram didebic mowodebulebi varT, rom aseTebi viyoT. bibliaSi weria, Tu ar iqnebi, rogorc bavSvi, sasufevelSi ver Sexvalo. didebisTvis aris es naTqvami. 70 wlis adamianic (da meti asakisac) unda eswrafodes, rom Tavisi xedva da horizonti gaafarToos; yvela asakSi SeiZleba, bavSvuri Tvalebi aanTo samyaros mimarT da sakuTari Tavi ufro vrceli, moulodneli perspeqtivebiT gaamdidro. _ albaT, am perspeqtivis nawilia, rasac „didi wignebis~ Sesaxeb ambobT _ rom isini aucileblad unda waikiTxos adamianma. visac amis ar sjera, iqneb, maTTvis dagvizustoT, _ ratom? _ imitom, rom didi wignebi didi eqsperimentebia. am wignebis avtorebi _ mwerlebi da filosofosebi _ fiqris eqsperiments atarebdnen, bolomde mihyvebodnen TavianTi gancdis Tu fiqris logikas. es eqsperimentebi dagvides sakuTari nawarmoebebis saxiT. am nawarmoebebs rom vkiTxulobT, Cvenc maT logikaSi da stiqiebSi vmonawileobT. ar SeiZleba, Cven TviTonac ar gadavawydeT msgavs sakiTxebs cxovrebaSi. xom aris laTinuri andaza _ Non scholae, sed vitae discimus _ `ara skolisTvis, aramed cxovrebisTvis vswavlobT~. da es didi nawarmoebebi Cven gvaZleven ufro Rrma Sinaarss sakuTari cxovrebis. adamianis erTaderTi, unikaluri cxovreba xanmoklea, magram SeiZleba iseTi mniSvnelovani ram gamoglijo dros, rac zedroulia, rac veqtoruli drois dinebaze ar daiyvaneba. aRmoaCen imas, rac maradiulia, anu, imas, rac yovelTvis aqtualuri iqneba kacobriobisTvis. imis dafasebas iswavli, rac am wignebSi dainaxe, magaliTad, Rirseuli saqcielis. heqtorma icis, rom waagebs, magram mainc midis saomrad. waikiTxav da ifiqreb: ai, ramxela adamiania! rodis wers homerosi amas? merve saukuneSi Cvens eramde. magram dResac samagaliToa is, rasac heqtori akeTebs. me SevZlebdi, ase movqceuliyavi? kontrastebs dainaxav sakuTar Tavsa da did saqcielebs Soris. es aris didi varskvlavebi, romlebzec sworeba gaqvs. vfiqrob, rom mniSvnelovania am varskvlavebis fonze cxovreba. _ Tqvenive erT-erTi leqciidan maqs friSis citatas gagaxsenebT: „Tanamedrove adamiani cxovrebis doneze fiqrobs, cxovrebis sazrisis nacvlad.“ _ politkoreqtulad vTqvi, maqs friSis gmiri `homo faberidan~ ambobs, amerikelebio. _ es erTi citataa, magram amis msgavss Tqvens sajaro gamosvlebSi bevrs Sevxvdi. SeiZleba vTqvaT, rom samyaro TandaTan uaresi xdeba? _ ar SemiZlia, winaswarmetyvelurad vTqva, saiT

their horizons. At any age, it is possible to light up your childish eyes again and to enrich yourself with unexpected and broad perspectives. What you have said about how everyone should read great books is probably part of this perspective. Could you clarify why, for those who disagree with you? Great books are great experiments. The authors of those books, who are writers, and philosophers, conduct thought experiments. They follow their thoughts to the very end. They passed these experiments onto us in the form of their writings. When we read their works, we participate in their logic and thinking. It is impossible not to encounter similar topics and problems in our lives. The Latin quote “Non scholae, sed vitae discimus”, meaning “We do not learn for school, but life”, is deeply connected. These great works give bigger meaning to our lives. The life of a man is short. But maybe, you might grab something so important from time that it surpasses time. Something that cannot be reduced to a vector and the linear flow of time. You will discover something eternal, something always relevant to humanity. You will learn to appreciate what you read in those books. For example, decent human behavior. Hector knows he will lose, but he still goes to war. One might read this and think: what a great person! When did Homer write this? In the 8th century BC. Hector’s behavior is still exemplary today. Could I act this way? You will start noticing contrasts between yourself and those great deeds. They are great stars that we have to align with. I believe it is important to live with those stars in the background. Let me remind you of a quote you mentioned in one of your lectures, “the modern person thinks of the standard of living, instead of the meaning of life” - Max Frisch. To speak in a politically correct way, Max Frisch’s character in “Homo Faber” is talking about Americans. This is just one quote, but in your public speeches, I have encountered many similar ones. Can we say that the world is gradually worsening? I cannot make any prediction about where the world will go, but I can focus on specific moments. What is the most important thing for a person of today? Is it success or personal growth? In most cases, people tend to prioritize success. Do you mean success without personal growth? Doesn’t success make you grow as a person? Maybe it does. Maybe it doesn’t. Mark Zuckerberg and Bill Gates are successful, but I am not sure how much they have grown personally. Are they even happy? Personal growth cannot be reduced to material expansion or having a successful business. Aristotle believed that personal success is when you develop your morality, cognition, and perceptive thinking. Not having material problems helps you work on these things. But if you are overly ambitious in becoming rich, that becomes your only goal. You will be left with less time to work

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on your personal growth. You will listen to less great music, read less great books because success will be your number one priority. I cannot say where the world is going. Not because it is forbidden, but because you need greater knowledge and greater foresight to say this. However, there are some tendencies that I have noticed.

midis samyaro. magram SeiZleba konkretul momentebze gaamaxvilo yuradReba: ra aris mTavari dRevandeli adamianisTvis _ warmateba Tu pirovnuli ganviTareba? xSirad aris, rom warmateba xdeba mTavari. _ pirovnuli ganviTarebis gareSe warmatebas gulisxmobT? warmatebac xom aviTarebs pirovnebas? _ SeiZleba aviTarebdes, SeiZleba _ ara. magaliTad, warmatebulia mark cukerbergi an bil geitsi. magram pirovnulad isini viTardebian Tu ara, ar var darwmunebuli. an bednierebi arian, saerTod? pirovnuli ganviTareba materialur Tu bizneswarmatebaze ar daiyvaneba. aristoteles xedvaa, rom pirovnuli warmateba is aris, roca viTardebi zneobis, Semecnebis, mWvretelobiTi azrovnebis kuTxiT. materialuri uzrunvelyofa ki gexmareba, rom aseTi didi saqmiT dakavde. magram Sen Tu zedmetad eswrafvi simdidres, maSin is TviTmizani xdeba da SeiZleba adamianuri Rirsebebis ganviTarebisTvis naklebi dro dagrCes. an esTeturi gemovnebis CamoyalibebisTvis dagrCes naklebi dro. naklebad usmino did musikas, naklebad ikiTxo didi wignebi imitom, rom warmateba gaxdes SenTvis mTavari. saiT midis samyaro, ver vityvi. imitom ki ara, rom ar SeiZleba amis Tqma. ufro didi codna da didi mWvretelobiTi Zalebia saWiro, rom es Tqva. Tumca, aris garkveuli tendenciebi, rasac vxedav. _ romelia maT Soris yvelaze mniSvnelovani? _ aRar aris iseTive optimisturi gancda, rom msjelobis gziT WeSmaritebas Cawvdebi. msjelobas Zveli berZnebisTvis erqva „logosi“. heraklite ambobs: „me nu mismen, rogorc avtoritets, logoss usmine,“ _ logoss, rogorc realobis WeSmarit, adekvatur xedvas. dRes aris pluralisturi xedvebi yvelasi yvelaferze, Tanamedrove principi Tu lozungia aseTi: `vidResaswauloT urTierTgansxvavebebi!~ hoda, Cvenc angariSmiucemlad vdResaswaulobT, magram am gansxvavebulobebs Soris ierarqiebs veRar vadgenT. Tan es maSin xdeba, roca „guglSi“ informaciis warRvnaa. adre ar iyo amdeni informacia. adre sanam werilobiT wyaroze gaxvidodi, manam im wyaros bevri filtri unda gaevlo. dRes gaufiltravi informaciis uzarmazari nakadi modis da imis garkveva, ra aris simarTle da ra _ tyuili, Zalian rTulia. sxvadasxva mediasaSualeba sxvadasxvanairi gadaxriT gvawodebs ama Tu im informacias da kidev ufro Zneli xdeba obieqturi WeSmaritebis dadgena. ar vambob, rom ar unda daadgino. mjera, rom es logosuri tradicia dResac grZeldeba. ar SeiZleba, piTagoras Teorema odesme Seicvalos. arc es logosuri tradicia Seicvleba, radgan, me vfiqrob, es namdvili tradiciaa filosofiaSi. magram am logosuri tradiciis mimdevrebsac gacilebiT

Which one of them is the most important? The optimistic feeling that you can grasp the truth simply through reasoning is gone. The ancient Greeks called reasoning “logos”. Heraclitus once said, “Don’t listen to me as an authority, listen to logos” – logos meaning the true and adequate vision of reality. Today everyone has a pluralistic vision of the world. Everyone’s life motto is “let us celebrate our differences!” And that is exactly what we do. However, we fail to construct hierarchies between these differences. This is happening in the same era where Google, a flood of information, exists. Before, people did not have access to this amount of information. A long time ago, before a written source became credible, it had to pass through many different filters. Nowadays, there is a huge flow of unfiltered information. It is difficult to differentiate between what is true and what is fake. Different news outlets have different ways of telling the same story, which makes it even more difficult to get a grasp of the objective truth. I am not saying that we should not find out what the truth is. I believe that this logos-like tradition still exists to this day. The Pythagorean theorem will never change, as will this logos-like tradition since it is an important tradition in philosophy. But the followers of this tradition need a lot of effort to attain the true truth (this is what I would name it). Does this reality pose a greater threat to people? It poses a threat in the sense that people might give up on finding the “true truth” and might live with a “blurry consciousness”, a skeptical consciousness that has been given up on: they cannot determine what is true anymore. This kind of person is a disaster. A “healthy person” is passionate about finding the truth. If one does not have this longing and emotional dependency towards the truth, they are not entirely healthy. They lack something essential. To avoid this unhealthy state of the soul, one must show a lot of diligence and effort. They must develop their voice inside themselves to not follow things randomly, with inertia. You once said: “Such intense desire to join Europe is a sign that we are not Europe and it bothers us that we are so far from it. There is something even romantic in this longing.” What did you mean when you said this? The expression “let us return to our European home” is incorrect. Return to what? When were we Europeans? I think there are two aspects to this phrase. One extremity is “why would I want to be European when I am Georgian”. If we follow this route, we will lose the big and fateful (in a good way) accomplishments that the European civilization has achieved. Such spiritual phenomena and degrees

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didi Zalisxmeva marTebT, rom namdvilad namdvil (ase vityodi) realobaze gavidnen. _ es realoba ufro met safrTxes uqmnis adamians? _ safrTxes im gagebiT uqmnis, rom SeiZleba adamianma xeli Caiqnios WeSmaritebaze da, ase vTqvaT, `adRlaznuli~ cnobierebiT icxovros; skeptikuri cnobierebiT, oRond, xelCaqneuli skeptikuri cnobierebiT _ rom simarTles mainc ver daadgens. aseTi adamiani katastrofaa. adamianis sijansaRe is aris, rom mas aqvs azarti WeSmaritebis mimarT. Sen Tu WeSmaritebis mimarT ar gaqvs emociuri damokidebuleba da azarti, vfiqrob, xeibari xar. es didi sulieri xeibroba rom aicilo Tavidan, Zalisxmevaa saWiro, _ rom sul iazrovno, Seni piradi xma gqondes nebismier realobaze da ar gahyve raRacas inerciiT. _ Tqven erTxel TqviT: „evropasTan dakavSirebis, evropelobis aseTi gamZafrebuli survili imis niSania da imas amxels, rom Cven ar varT evropa da ganvicdiT, rom misgan Sors varT. am swrafvaSi aris raRac romantiulic.“ ras gulisxmobdiT, roca amas ambobdiT? _ gamoTqma, rom „davubrundeT Cvens evropul saxls~ _ arazustia. ras davubrundeT? rodis viyaviT evropa? vfiqrob, aq ori momentia. erTi ukiduresoba SeiZleba iyos, rom „rad minda evropa, qarTveli var da evropa ar mainteresebs“. Tu am gzas gavyvebiT, davkargavT im did, sabediswero (kargi gagebiT sabediswero) miRwevebs, rac evropul civilizacias aqvs. iseTi sulieri fenomenebi Camoyalibda da Tavisuflebis iseT xarisxs miaRwia evropulma cnobierebam, rom es Seuqcevadia. wiwilas kvercxSi veRar daabruneb. amitom, sworia, rom evropisken gvaqvs midrekileba, Tavisuflebis da pasuxismgeblobis am xarisxisken. meore ukiduresobaa, rom me araferi ar var, nuli var da yvelafers evropisgan aviReb. es nihilisturi damokidebulebaa. vfiqrob, ilia WavWavaZes hqonda am ori ukiduresobis Zalian kargi balansi. sul amas ambobs laitmotivurad, rom Cven didi warsuli gvaqvs, rom didi memkvidreobiT movdivarT... magram, imasac ambobs, rom yvelaferi kargi warsulSi ar dasrulebula: axla, `Zlevamosil am saukuneSi~, anu XIX saukuneSi, xdeba didi moZraobebi evropaSi, emansipacia, Tavisuflebis axali xarisxi, liberaloba (rac iliasTvis salanZRavi sityva ar aris). es yvelaferi Tu ar miviReT, Tu movwydiT evropas, istoriis miRma davrCebiT, gaviriyebiTo... me mgoni, dResac es aris gasaTvaliswinebeli _ Seni meobis da Seni tradiciis Rrma gaazreba, axlisadmi interesisa da iqidan kargis da sasargeblos miRebis mzadyofnis mxardamxar. gasagebia, rom Taroze „vefxistyaosani~ gvidevs, magram umjobesia, wavikiTxoT da kargad gavigoT, _ ratom aris es didi wigni. maSin ufro gulwrfeli da saintereso iqneba Cemi siamaye sakuTari kulturuli tradiciiT. maSin Cemi

of freedom have been reached in Europe that they are irreversible. You cannot return the chicken into the egg. So, our longing towards Europe, towards this higher degree of freedom and responsibility, is completely legitimate. The other extremity is “I am nothing. I have nothing. I will take everything from Europe.” This is a nihilistic approach. I believe Ilia Chavchavadze had the perfect balance between these two ultimatums. He always says that we have a great past, that we come from great ancestors. But that the good things have not ended. Now, “mighty in this century”, in the 19th century, big changes were occurring in Europe: emancipation, a new degree of freedom, liberalism (not a word with a negative connotation for Ilia). If we do not accept all of this, if we disconnect from Europe, we will go astray from history. I think that we should keep considering this piece of advice today - a deep understanding of yourself, of your traditions, an interest in novelty, and being open towards the idea of accepting the good from new things. I understand that we all have a copy of “The Knight in the Panther’s Skin” at home, but we have to read it and understand it. Why is it a “great book”? If we do understand it, our pride and cultural traditions will be more sincere and interesting. My Europeanness will be different too. We will not head into Europe empty-handed. We will arrive with a great inheritance that we can share with Europeans, and enrich them further. What is romantic in our aspiration towards Europe? In Romanticism, there is a moment where you go to a place where you have never been before. You dare to do that. Yes, you experience Europe as a part of yourself. You strive towards it, but you are followed by certain risks and suspicions that it is different, it is unknown, it is Terra Incognita. For this reason, I partially perceive Europe as mine, as my homeland. But I understand that, in some way, I am going into Terra Incognita when I go to Europe. Is this because we have not read “The Knight in the Panther’s Skin” well enough and do not perceive Avtandil as a character

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evropelobac sxvanairi iqneba _ carieli ki ar movdivar evropaSi, didi memkvidreobiT movdivar da SemiZlia, Senc gagiziaro, Senc gagamdidro. _ romantiuli ra dainaxeT evropisken Cvens swrafvaSi? _ romantizmSi aris momenti, rom Sen midixar iq, sadac arasdros yofilxar; bedav amas. ki batono, ganicdi evropas, rogorc Sensas da miswrafeba iqiT gaqvs, magram garkveuli riskebis da xifaTebis gancdac mogyveba, rom is mainc gansxvavebulia, jer Seucnobelia, Terra incognita-a. amitom, evropas, erTis mxriv, Cemad da mSobliurad aRviqvam, magram aqve vxvdebi, rom, garkveulwilad, Terra incognita-Sic mivdivar, roca misken mivdivar. _ imitom, rom cudad gvaqvs wakiTxuli „vefxistyaosani~ da ver vxedavT, rom avTandili Zalian evropuli xasiaTis personaJia? Tu imitom, rom ase ar aris? _ anaqronistulia Tqma, rom avTandili evropuli xasiaTis gmiria. rusTaveli ar fiqrobda evropelobaze, roca avTandilis personaJs qmnida. Tavisuflebac evropuli fenomeni ar aris. abul ala al-maari XI saukuneSi ambobs aseT leqss: nu eli viRac qarizmatul liders, mTavari lideri Seni goneba ariso. is, rac evropaSi instituciurad Camoyalibda ganaTlebis sistemis saxiT; is, rac msoflmxedvelobis saxiT dakristalda _ es Sapere aude-s („gabede, iyo brZeni“) ganmanaTlebloba, _ mTeli kacobriobis monapovaria. yvelas gvesmis, rom Tavisufleba ukeTesia, vidre monoba da rom Seni azrebis sxvis avtoritetze ageba uaresia, vidre is, rom TviTon mixvide ama Tu im ideamde. _ anu Tqven dabejiTebiT ambobT, rom evropa jer kidev ucxoa CvenTvis? _ dabejiTebiT imas vambob, rom rasac Cven evropelobas veZaxiT _ azrovnebis Tavisuflebas, pirovnebis dafasebas _ es yvelaferi Cvens kulturaSi arsebobda da SegviZlia Semdgomi ganviTareba Cveni kulturisgan mowyvetilad ki ar vcadoT, aramed, Cveni kulturis organul nawilad aRviqvaT da mis Suqze ganvixiloT. igive avTandili, isic xom eqsperimentatoria, Tavisi Cveuli konteqstidan gadis da axali samyaros aRmoCenas cdilobs. evropa aris farTod gaxelili Tvalebi, „evropa~ amas niSnavs etimologiurad. rasac evropam miaRwia, is ukve mTeli kacobriobis ganuyofeli nawilia, Tvals veRar daxuWav amaze. Sua saukuneebSi veRar dabrundebi renesansisa da ganmanaTleblobis mere. _ Tu sworad gavige, Tqven humanitaruli ganaTleba _ didi wignebis kiTxva, maTi gaazreba, Tvalebis farTod gaxela, varskvlavebis fonze cxovreba _ migaCniaT rogorc adamianis gadarCenis, aseve sazogadoebis ganviTarebis

with European characteristics? Or because it is the contrary? It is anachronistic to say that Avtandil is a character with European characteristics. Rustaveli was not thinking about being European when he created Avtandil’s character. Freedom is not a European phenomenon either. In the 11th century, Al-Ma'arri wrote the following poem: “Do not await a charismatic leader. The main leader is your mind.” The thing that has been institutionalized in Europe as an education system, the thing that has crystallized as a worldview, the Sapere Aude (meaning “dare to be wise”) is an achievement for all of mankind. We all understand that freedom is better than slavery and that basing your ideas on others because of their authority is worse than getting to the conclusion yourself. So can you say with certainty that Europe is still new to us? I can say with certainty that what we call being European entails freedom of thought and appreciation of individuality. These things exist in our culture and our next stage of development can be not separated from, but concentrated on the original aspects of our culture. The same is with Avtandil, who leaves a familiar environment to attempt to discover something new. “Europe” means wideopen eyes. That is what it translates to, etymologically. Europe’s achievements are achievements for all of mankind. We cannot disregard it anymore. One cannot return to the middle ages after going through the Renaissance and Enlightenment. If I understand correctly, you consider humanitarian education - reading great books, understanding them, opening your eyes wide, living with stars in the background - to be the core of the development of societies and the survival of man. However, if we look at our society, we notice that in most cases, humanitarian education is not their first concern. What is your main argument when speaking with people who believe that humanitarian education is not a priority? If there is any assurance that society will lead the individual in the right way, if the individual does not think by themselves and ask questions, society might collapse. It might take a completely unexpected turn, as Germany did in the 1930s. In situations like these, if you do not have a love for truth and if you do not base your perceptions on the starry background, you will follow inertia, by force of necessity. This is very dangerous. You, as a person? Or, you, as a part of the society? Firstly, you, as a person. If not, you will be obliged to talk like society talks or be silenced. I might know it is wrong when Jews are brought into gas chambers. I even say it is wrong. But if I say it heartlessly, if I don’t have lifelong, existential indignation against it, if I do not speak with passion driven by truth, then, it counts as an indifferent truth. Factually, I know that everyone is equal and that Jews should not be discriminated against. But, knowing this, theoretically, is not much. I believe that in humanitarian education, everyone should develop muscles for kindness. When kindness is violated, it must

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gzad. magram Cvens sazogadoebaze rom vilaparakoT, bevrisTvis humanitaruli ganaTleba qveynis ganviTarebis prioritetebSi erT-erT bolo adgilzea. ra aris Tqveni mTavari argumenti, maTTan saubrisas? _ ar arsebobs garantia, rom sazogadoeba swori gziT wagiyvans, Tu Sen TviTon ar ifiqre da TviTon ar dasvi kiTxvebi. SeiZleba, sazogadoeba dacurdes, sruliad gaugebari gziT wavides da masobrivma isteriam moicvas, rogorc germania moicva gasuli saukunis 30-ian wlebSi. am situaciaSi, Sen Tu ar gaqvs Sens TavSi Camoyalibebuli WeSmaritebis mimarT siyvaruli da im varskvlavebis fonze ar gaqvs gamoWedili sakuTari aRqmebi, maSin inercias gahyvebi, aucileblobis ZaliT. es Zalian saxifaToa. _ Sen, rogorc adamiani? Tu Sen, rogorc sazogadoeba? _ Sen, rogorc adamiani, pirvel rigSi. Tu arada, Sen valdebuli iqnebi, iseve ilaparako, rogorc sazogadoeba laparakobs. an xma gaikmido. me SeiZleba vxedavde, rom arasworia, roca ebraelebi gazis kamerebSi SehyavT, vambob kidec, rom es arasworia. magram Tu amas gulgrilad vambob, Tu ar maqvs cxovrebiseuli, egzistenciuri aRSfoTeba amis winaaRmdeg, anu WeSmaritebiT aRZruli vneba Tu ar malaparakebs, _ maSin es indiferentuli simarTlea: informaciulad vici, rom yvela adamiani Tanasworia da ebraelebs ar unda devnidnen. magram amis Teoriis doneze codna araferi ar aris. me vfiqrob, humanitarul ganaTlebaSi adamiani unda iyalibebdes kunTebs sikeTeebis mimarT da roca sikeTe irRveva, amis sapirwoned unda moqmedebdes. „qveynis marili iyavi! Tu marili ar iqnebi, es qveyana riTi damarildeba?!~ marili ra aris? is, rac lpobas uSlis xels. adamiani unda iyos marili imitom, rom Tu sazogadoebaSi lpoba gaCnda, amas xeli SeuSalos. emociuri damokidebuleba mxolod imis mimarT giCndeba, rac Seni moyvanilia, Seni Wirnaxulia. WeSmaritebis xedvis gemovneba da azarti Tu Seni Wirnaxulia, Tu Senive nafiqr-naazrevis Sedegia, _ maSin gaqvs emociuri damokidebuleba. da Tu am Wirnaxuls vinme daemuqreba, maSin giCndeba swori aRSfoTebis vneba. _ „tyuilze aRSfoTebis unaris atrofia kiboze saSineli daavadebaa~ _ esec Tqveni citataa. Cveni qveynis sazogadoebriv da politikur cxovrebaSi, samwuxarod, Zalian bevri tyuilia. ufro metic, didi xania, tyuili da simarTle rwmenis kategoriaa _ amis mjera, imis ar mjera. faqti, rogorc aseTi, TiTqmis ar arsebobs. Tu gegulebaT raime Semobrunebis wertili, jadosnuri wamali am kiboze saSineli senis winaaRmdeg? _ wamali aris skola, universiteti, sadac kargad unda iswavlo. teqstebi guldasmiT unda ikiTxo da adekvaturi daskvnebi gamoitano. skolis merxidan roca gaqvs unari, gaarCio, romelia ufro logosuri

be counterbalanced. “Be the salt of our country! If not, how will our country be salted?” What is salt? The thing that prevents rot. A person should be salt because if something begins to rot in a society, that person should interfere. One only becomes emotionally dependent on what he creates and what he cherishes. If you cherish the excitement of truth, if it is the result of your thinking, then you have developed that emotional dependency. You have the right passion for anger. “The atrophy of the ability to be angry towards lies is a worse disease than cancer.” This is one of your quotes. Unfortunately, there are a lot of lies in the political life of our society. Moreover, lies and truth are part of faith - “I believe this, I don’t believe that”. Facts, as such, do not exist anymore. Do you know any way to turn back from this state? To cure this disease, far worse than cancer, magically? The cure is school, university, where people can learn. You have to read books carefully and draw adequate conclusions. If from school age, you have the ability to differentiate which is the more logical explanation, you will develop the right attitudes in life. Your soul will train to better differentiate what is authentic and what is fake. Sometimes, politicians and journalists try to turn your attention towards something, so that you lose sight of the true essence. For example, I just taught a logics class, where I told students about how Zidane hit his head on Materazzi. I told them to observe how they grew up together, then how Zidane separated from him and hit him with his head. Who is the bad guy? Of course, everyone will say that the bad guy is Zidane. But, if we look into the context of the situation, this happened in the last minutes of a very important match. The best football player betrayed his team in the most crucial moments? He knew that for this behavior, he would be fired, right? Didn’t he want to win? No, we cannot say this with certainty because he played with all his heart. Turns out, he was simply furious. What could have caused this fury? In this case, after discussion, it turns out that, maybe, Materazzi is the bad guy since he might have told Zidane something that caused him to be so furious. Apparently, the one who we considered guilty, might turn out to be the victim. With logical reasoning, you can find more depth in certain events. The wish to get more context about a situation must be born in a person. When it comes to facts, in logics, this is called a “red herring”. “Let us set loose the red herring so that we are able to turn our attention from the main topic to something less important.” The American presidential elections took place not long ago. The suspicion that the elections were rigged was born amidst the Trump supporters. This issue needed investigating. Were the facts they said facts? Or fabricated lies? Unfortunately, there was no discussion to answer every question and to clear every misunderstanding. Everything went so far that Trump’s radical supporters stormed into the Capitol. This was a horrible thing that should not have happened. But it should not become the “red herring” that makes us forget whether or not the presidential elections were rigged. This year’s elections, as Trump puts

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ganmarteba _ maSin giCndeba swori damokidebulebebi. suli gavarjiSdeba da igrZnobs, rom es yalbia, es marTalia. xSirad xdeba, rom politikosebi iqnebian Tu Jurnalistebi, iqiT migibrecen yuradRebas, sadac arsi dagekargeba. magaliTad, logikis klasi Cavatare axla bavSvebTan da is SemTxveva vaCvene, zidanma rom Tavi daartya materacis. veubnebi, SexedeT, erTad modian, mere zidani gamoeyo materacis, Semobrunda da Tavi daartya. vin aris cudi kaci? ra Tqma unda, yvela ityvis, rom cudi kaci zidania. ki batono, modi, konteqsti ganvixiloT. es moxda Zalian mniSvnelovani matCis bolo wuTebze. saukeTeso fexburTelma ase uRalata Tavis gunds gadamwyvet momentSi? xom icoda, rom aseTi qcevisTvis fexburTels gaagdebdnen? ar undoda mogeba? ara, amas ver vityviT imitom, rom mTeli guliT TamaSobda. gamodis, Tavdaviwyebamde aRSfoTebulma gaakeTa. aRSfoTeba risi brali unda iyos? am SemTxvevaze msjelobiT aRmoCndeba, rom SeiZleba, is meore ufro cudi kaci iyo, iseTi raRac uTxra, rom ase gamoiwvia. Turme, vinc aqamde calsaxad moZalade gvegona, msxverpli yofila. logikuri

it, deserve open and impartial discussions. Without this, the lack of information and unclarity will lead to further mistrust and aggression in the people. Should the types of schools and universities, to which you refer to be born as “separate islands” in our society, or do you think the entire system can change? There is probably a way for education to go in the right way. But nothing can substitute a good teacher and a good quality class. Even a decent teacher can be too lazy to conduct a good class once, but that will not disrupt the specific circumstances of his teaching. Otherwise, we will be trapped in political passions and ideologies. Aren’t we already? Of course, we are! After the parliamentary elections were held in Georgia, political parties refused to enter the parliament and kept repeating that the elections were rigged, like a mantra. Were where they rigged? Let us discuss. Everyone is interested. At least, open debates should take place, where one side can voice their suspicions and the other side can try to cancel those suspicions. Let us see both

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msjelobiT erTsa da imave movlenaSi ufro siRrmiseuli arsi SeiZleba dainaxo. mniSvnelovania, rom konteqstis danaxvis survili ganviTardes adamianSi. faqtebs rac Seexeba, logikaSi amas „wiTeli qaSayi~ hqvia: „gavuSvaT wiTeli qaSayi, rom mTavari sakiTxidan yuradReba sxva sakiTxze gadavitanoT“. amerikis prezidentis arCevnebi iyo cota xnis win. gaCnda eWvi, marTla xom ar gayalbda arCevnebi, rogorc trampis momxreebi ambobdnen. es sakiTxi gamosaZiebeli iyo _ rasac ambobdnen, rogorc faqtebs, marTla faqtebia, Tu SeTiTxnili sicruea, romelsac faqtad asaReben? samwuxarod, amaze msjeloba ar yofila, rom yvela kiTxvas da gaugebrobas naTeli mohfenoda. yvelaferi mivida iqamde, rom trampis momxreebis radikaluri nawili kapitoliumSi Sevarda. saSineleba iyo da ar unda momxdariyo, magram es ar unda iqces „wiTel qaSayad~ da ar dagvaviwyos, rom sakiTxi, moxda Tu ara mniSvnelovani gayalbeba amerikis wlevandel arCevnebSi, rogorc amas trampi Cemulobs, imsaxurebs Ria da miukerZoebel ganxilvas. uamisod, informaciuli SimSilis da gamosarkvevi sakiTxebis miCqmalvis gancda aCens undoblobas da agresias. _ iseTi skolebi da universitetebi, rogorzec Tqven saubrobT, kunZulebad unda gaCndes Cvens sazogadoebaSi? Tu fiqrobT, rom SesaZlebelia, sistema erTianad gardaiqmnas? _ albaT, arsebobs gza, rom ganaTleba swori mimarTulebiT warimarTos. magram araferi Secvlis karg maswavlebels da kargi xarisxis klass. kargma maswavlebelmac SeiZleba daizaros kargi gakveTilis Catareba... araferi Secvlis swavlebis konkretul viTarebebs. sxvanairad ideologiis an politikuri vnebebis tyveobaSi moveqceviT. _ xom varT ukve? _ varT, rogor ar varT?! arCevnebis Semdeg CvenTan partiebi parlamentSi ar Sedian da mantrasaviT imeoreben, rom arCevnebi gayalbda. da sad gayalbda? modi, ganvixiloT. es yvelas ainteresebs. Tundac, Ria debatebi gaimarTos. daidos es eWvi, daidos am eWvis gabaTilebis mcdeloba. vnaxoT orive, SevajeroT erTmaneTTan. ase mantrasaviT gameoreba „gayalbda... gayalbda...~ es ukve ideologiaa da ara simarTle. Tundac, is SemTxveva aviRoT, axla strasburgSi rom moigo saqme saqarTvelom. ra movigeT? strasburgma daadastura, rom ruseTs SeeZlo, SeeCerebina agresia qarTvelebis mimarT 12 agvistos Semdeg (Tumca ara 8-dan 12 agvistomde) da ar SeaCera. amitom, ruseTi amaSi damnaSavea. magram strasburgs saerTod ar ganuxilavs is sakiTxi, Tu vin aris damnaSave omis dawyebaSi. Cven kidev vambobT, TiTqos, strasburgma Tqva, omis dawyebaSi ruseTia damnaSaveo.

sides. Endlessly repeating “rigged… rigged…” like a mantra is already ideology and not the truth. Let us take the example of how Georgia won a case in Strasbourg’s court. What did we win? Strasbourg confirmed that Russia could have stopped the aggression against Georgia after the 12th of August (but not from the 8th to the 12th) and that they did not stop. So, Russia is to blame for this. However, Strasbourg did not discuss who is to blame for starting the war. We celebrate this verdict as though Strasbourg had said that Russia started the war. We celebrate more than what is necessary. This is inadequate. In order not to have the atrophy of the ability to be angry towards lies, people need to think more critically. How? Jesus Christ had the best school. From his 12 disciples, one turned out to be a traitor. There is no certainty that if you create a good education system, that atrophy will disappear. The formation of man in man is a mystery. The education system might be good, but a person might still not become kind and noble. They might turn out to be immoral and dishonest. “Garetsari” means superficial in the old Georgian language. It refers to something that does not go into depth. “He reads like a garetsari” means that he is reading superficially. He is not interested in wisdom. There is no guarantee that everyone will strive towards the truth. But, I think that there will always be people who are like “salt” and who interfere with society rotting. However, if this salt loses its power, you cannot salt it with a different salt. Everyone has their own responsibility to become salt. The following quote of yours is connected to people like this. “A character full of responsibility, not blown away by fate, but the type that takes fate in its hands.” In modern Georgia, can you name someone who may be described by this phrase? He who takes fate in his own hands? I can name people who may not be popular but still put all their heart and creativity into what they do. You start separating from fate when you are prevented from developing your talent. Our talents are divine energies that develop joyfully. You improve and you achieve something. This is called defeating fate. Definitely, I see people like this around me. You made an emphasis on focus and creativity. Is this enough for a person to be referred to as the “salt” of a society? Talent, in itself, is kindness. But there exists also universal kindness (morality, access to truth). A person might be working on their talent, but not have the correct hierarchy in their mind. They might be a sublime musician but perform in front of a tyrant. Istvan Szabo has a movie named “Taking Sides”. It is about Wilhelm Furtwangler, a famous conductor. He performs in front of Adolf Hitler. Hence, he serves his regime. He never raised his arm, in a sign of respect, in front of Hitler only because he was holding his conducting baton. He was undergoing a difficult moral slalom with the nazi regime. In the end, it turns out that the system was using him, which he was fully aware of.

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So, we can say that there is a hierarchy even in divine characteristics. The biggest divine characteristic is discovering the truth and sharpening your consciousness. The rest is not a priority.

vdResaswaulobT zedmets, ufro mets, vidre iq iTqva. es ar aris adekvaturi. _ imisTvis, rom tyuilis mimarT aRSfoTebis gancda atrofirebuli ar gvqondes, adamianebi ufro kritikulad unda azrovnebdnen. magram _ rogor? _ yvelaze kargi skola ieso qristes hqonda da Tormet mowafeSi erTi moRalate gamouvida. ar aris garantia, rom ganaTlebis rac ar unda kargi sistema Seqmna, maincdamainc is moxdeba, rasac Tqven mekiTxebiT. adamianSi adamianis Camoyalibeba saidumloa. SeiZleba, ganaTlebis sistema kargi iyos, magram mainc ar Camoyalibdes adamiani adamianad, mainc garewari aRmoCndes: garewari Zvel qarTulad zedapiruls niSnavs _ „gare warvals~, siRrmeSi ar Sedis. „garewrad kiTxulobs teqsts“ niSnavs, rom zedapirulad kiTxulobs, WeSmariteba ar ainteresebs. ar aris garantia, rom WeSmariteba yvelas Seuyvardeba. magram, me vfiqrob, yovelTvis iqneba is xalxi, vinc marilia da xels uSlis sazogadoebis lpobas. magram marili Tu Zalas dakargavs, sxva mariliT veRar daamarileb. anu Sen ukiduresad pasuxismgebeli xar Sens cxovrebaze, rom marili iyo. _ swored aseT adamianebs exeba Tqveni kidev erTi fraza: „pasuxismgeblobiT savse xasiaTi, bedis mier waRebuli ki ara, beds rom xelSi aiRebs, iseTi.~ Tanamedrove saqarTveloSi vin aris, visac, zustad iciT, rom Tqveni es fraza miesadageba? _ vinc Tavis beds sakuTar xelSi iRebs? SeiZleba vTqva im adamianebze, romlebic popularulebi ar arian, magram Tavis saqmeSi guls da Semoqmedebas deben. bediswerisgan waRebas imas vuwodeb, rac xels gviSlis sakuTari talantis ganviTarebaSi. sakuTari talanti RvTiuri energiaa, romelSic xalisiT viTardebi, ixvewebi da raRacas aRwev. es aris bedisweris damarcxeba. Cem garSemo namdvilad vxedav aseT adamianebs. _ aqcenti mainc Semoqmedebasa da gulwrfelobaze gaakeTeT. aris Tu ara es sakmarisi imisTvis, rom swored am adamianebs vuwodoT sazogadoebis marili? _ niWi, TavisTavad, sikeTea. magram aris kidev universaluri sikeTe _ zneobrioba, WeSmaritebis wvdoma. SeiZleba adamiani Tavis niWs aviTarebdes, magram swori ierarqia ar hqondes gonebaSi; araCveulebrivi musikosi iyos, magram tiranis win daukras. iStvan sabos aqvs filmi „mxareTa azri“, inglisurad „Taking Sides” hqvia. vilhelm furtvenglerzea, did diriJorze. furtvengleri hitleris win diriJorobda orkestrs da amiT reJims emsaxureboda. xeli ar auwevia, TiTqos, hitleris win, radgan xelSi diriJoris joxi eWira da joxs xom ar avwevdio. rTul zneobriv slaloms akeTebda am reJimTan. bolos mainc ise gamovida, rom reJimi mas iyenebda da man

So, the salt is he who has the right hierarchies? Yes, classical education entails recognizing the correct hierarchy. You teach in both schools and universities. Is this a passion or a just a profession for you? I know that I should teach what I am interested in, what I am passionate about so that I can transfer this passion to others. There is nothing more exciting than learning something and liking it so much that you are eager to tell others about it. I bring a particular topic up for discussion in one of my lectures and, suddenly, it becomes relevant. Not only to me but to others as well. Otherwise, this connection will not occur. Even if I teach the same class for two years in a row, I try to find something new in it, read something new, to keep my metaphorical fire (the fire of interest) alive. So, you try to create an “excitement towards wisdom” in the people you talk to? That excitement might not be born, but at least I show them that I have it. Be it a lesson or a lecture, I always tell the students to stop me and ask questions. Sometimes, it becomes clear that a certain topic is problematic to them. I suggest we dive into the problem adequately. We should keep in mind that even great thinkers and scientists have argued over these things. Which side would you take in that particular debate? Let us imagine a 20 syllable Rustavelian stanza. There is only one in the whole “Knight in the Panther’s Skin”. Is this stanza authentic? We start arguing about this. Some will say that the stanza can’t be written by Rustaveli since it is somewhat different from the rest. One of my students said that, on the contrary, it must be authentic because an added verse usually has 16 syllables. Since this debate cannot be solved through reasoning and arguing, we have to check based on the text itself. You have to investigate multiple ancient scriptures to see if the stanza is present there as well. Suddenly, you discover that you are in the same world that scientists are in and that they have never been a separate caste. You realize that you fell into the same hole as them. You teach others hierarchies and you probably try to live with the right hierarchies yourself. Do you manage to be faithful to your rules? I try to not waste time, but sometimes I do, unintentionally. I sit down and say to myself that in the next two hours, I will read a certain book. Instead of reading for two hours, I only read for half an hour. I waste the rest of the time on other things. I might read an article not connected to what I originally wanted to read. I think that since I put the two hours aside, it turns out that the coefficient of acting well (being productive) was relatively low. So, theoretically, you can work

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es icoda. ase rom, RvTiur TvisebebSic aris ierarqia. yvelaze didi RvTiuri Tviseba aris WeSmaritebis Secnoba da sindisis galesva am WeSmaritebis Suqze. danarCeni _ Semdegia. _ amitom, marili mainc is aris, vinc ierarqias sworad alagebs. _ diax, klasikuri ganaTleba amas gulisxmobs, rom swori ierarqia Seicno. _ Tqven maswavlebeli xarT. skolaSic aswavliT, universitetSic. es TqvenTvis erTgvari vnebaa Tu „civi“ profesia? _ vici, rom is unda vaswavlo, rac me TviTon mainteresebs, raSic Ziebis muxti maqvs da SemiZlia, es piradi muxti sxvas gadavdo. amaze sasixarulo araferia, roca raRac Sevicani da imdenad momewona, rom erTi suli maqvs, sxvas gavuziaro. leqciaze diskusiaSi Semogaqvs es Tema da sxvebisTvisac aqtualurs xdi imas, rac SenTvis aris aqtualuri. sxvanairad es qimia ar Sedgeba. Tundac, meordebodes kursi, vcdilob, raRac axali davinaxo, axali wavikiTxo, rom cocxlad mqondes es metaforuli cecxli, interesis cecxli ama Tu im sakiTxis mimarT. _ anu cdilobT, „azarti WeSmaritebis mimarT~ gauCinoT im adamianebs, visac esaubrebiT. _ SeiZleba, ar gauCndes, magram erTaderTi Sansi, gauCino, is aris, rom _ Senc gaqvs. gakveTili iqneba Tu leqcia, veubnebi, rom gamaCeron, SemekamaTon... vTqvaT yvelaferi, gavimSobliuroT es sakiTxi. xandaxan aRmoCndeba, rom romelime Tema problemuria. CavvardeT am problemaSi, adekvaturad CavvardeT. vicodeT, rom didi mecnierebic ki amaze kamaToben. Sen romel mxares daiWerdi am kamaTSi? davuSvaT, ocmarcvliani strofi rusTavelTan, romelic erTaderTia mTel „vefxistyaosanSi~ _ aris Tu ara es strofi avTenturi? amaze kamaTi iwyeba. zogi ityvis, rogor SeiZleba, rusTavelis dawerili iyos, amovardnilia mTeli teqstidano. erTma Cemma moswavlem ki Tqva, piriqiT, avTenturi unda iyos imitom, rom Cammatebeli Teqvsmetmarcvlians miamsgavsebdao. raki kamaTiT es sakiTxi ar gadawyda, unda gadawyvito xelnawerebis moSveliebiT. naxo, romel xelnawerSi rogor aris, uZveles xelnawerebSi aris Tu ara es strofi. uceb aRmoaCen, rom Senc imave sivrceSi xar, raSic mecnierebi arian. mecnierebi sxva kasta ki ar yofila, ubralod, aseT sakiTxebze mofiqrali xalxia. da Sen uceb Cavardi im ormoSi, sadac sxvebic arian. _ Tqven sxvebs aswavliT ierarqiebs da Tqvenc, albaT, cdilobT, swori ierarqiiT icxovroT. Tu axerxebT, rom

more. Do you consider it a waste of time when you could not do exactly what you set out to do in a given amount of time? I would call it a waste of time when you stop growing, personally. When you have a repetitive job that does not demand any thinking. Everything you do should develop you. During 24 hours? Yes, during 24 hours. Conscience should never sleep. If it goes to sleep even for five minutes, a catastrophe will occur. Even when you are at a feast, drinking, getting drunk. Your conscience should not be turned off. I allowed myself to let this happen because I could. But, you cannot always live like this. I am not saying that you should become a priest and live your whole life ascetically. But, at every stage of your life, you should have a sense of what you are facing. Eternity? God? Always? Absolutely. Are you very strict towards yourself? I once heard the following saying - “He who is not strict towards himself is strict towards others”. I think I am not strict enough towards myself. Maybe I should be stricter with myself in order to be kinder and more understanding of others. Now, you are practically talking about discipline. You once said that discipline and freedom are inseparable from each other. Yes, that is correct. How, for example? When I was in school, I wanted to become a philologist. I wanted it to be my profession, my private island. When different factors stand in the way of you and your dream profession, you become vulnerable and many people will try to make you change your mind. They might urge you to join a political party or a business. Simply to live, they will urge you to do something you are not interested in. If you do not find your profession, your talents, your passions, you will have to live as others force you to. To develop your profession, which is a source of freedom, you have to have discipline and willpower. Finding this willpower is equal to finding freedom. This fight goes on your entire life. Thank you for your answer. What is a question about life that bothers you and that you do not yet have an answer for? (Pause) Sometimes you think: how are wisdom and happiness connected? Is the conflict between them necessary or can it be overcome? Even freedom and happiness – are they together or are they in conflict? I think that there is a certain hierarchy between them. For instance, we read in the Bible that if you look for wisdom, you will get everything else. Does that mean that you will get happiness?

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Nietzsche says the same (in a sexist way). He says that “Happiness is like a woman. If you do your manly deed, it will please you” Is this true? Do we need to choose between freedom and happiness? And does happiness always entail a compromise, a moral compromise? The dimming of the wish to find wisdom? To renounce part of your freedom? Is this good or not? I think these dilemmas do not have answers. Everyone tries to answer these questions based on their own lives. And in your experience, have you found the answer? I am still looking for the answer. Thank you very much for the interesting and thoughtprovoking conversation. We will end the interview with two comments of yours about quotes by famous people. The author of the first quote is the English philosopher Francis Bacon (1561 - 1626): “Nakedness is uncomely, as well in mind as body, and it addeth no small reverence to men’s manners and actions if they are not altogether open.” This is a very English quote, but there is also wisdom in it. You may protect yourself and those around you by not saying things that others will not appreciate adequately. The second point is that you should not take advantage of another person with your knowledge and your feelings. Tqveni wesebis erTguli iyoT? _ vcdilob, rom ar gavflango dro, magram meflangeba xolme. davjdebi da vityvi, axla ori saaTi wavikiTxav amas. magram im or saaTSi, rasac vapirebdi, imisTvis mxolod naxevari saaTi damrCeba. danarCeni dro raRacaSi gameflangeba. SeiZleba, sxva statia wavikiTxe, romelic am Temas ar exeboda, davfiqrdi... is ori saaTi rom gadavde, aRmoCnda, rom margi qmedebis koeficienti SedarebiT dabali iyo. ese igi, amaze meti SeiZleba imuSao. _ drois dakargvas imas eZaxiT, rom konkretulad rac gqondaT ganzraxuli, is ver gaakeTeT gansazRvrul droSi? _ drois dakargvas davarqmevdi, roca aRar viTardebi pirovnulad, roca fuqsavatur saqmes akeTeb. yvelaferSi unda iyos Seni pirovnuli zrdis da ganviTarebis CarTuloba. _ 24 saaTis ganmavlobaSi? _ diax, 24 saaTis ganmavlobaSi. sindisma ar unda daiZinos arasdros. xuTi wuTi Tu daiZinebs sindisi, ai, im xuT wuTSi moxdeba katastrofa. roca sufrasTan xar, Zalian bevrs dalev da daTvrebi, mandac CarTuli unda iyos sindisi: miveci Cems Tavs amis ufleba imitom, rom axla es SeiZleboda. yovelTvis ase ar SeiZleba. ar vambob, rom beri gaxde da mTeli cxovreba asketurad icxovro. magram cxovrebis yvela etapze imis gancda unda gqondes, ris winaSe cxovrob _ maradisobis? RmerTis winaSe?

So, protect them from yourself? Yes, this is part of being cultured. You enter a closed, intimate space, ahead of time, when many things should have happened between you two before that person was ready to receive whatever knowledge you gave them. This is why I think you should wait for a feeling here a feeling that the person is ready to hear what you have to say. There is an English expression - “the real man is he who has pain in his heart and a smile on his face”. The second quote belongs to Victor Hugo (1802 - 1885): “Freedom begins with irony”. This is a nice expression. Irony is connected to wisdom. You are ironic towards what you think is not connected to wisdom. The source of Socratic irony is exactly this. People told Socrates “This is so, Socrates”. And he replied in surprise, “I did not know this before, thank you very much for telling me. This is such a great thing! But, let us also look at it from a different perspective.” Socrates’ irony is pedagogical. He understands that his interlocutor is inadequate towards great truths and sayings. So, he says everything simply. Even Socrates himself might not know what the great truth is, but he understands what is correct and what is not. He brings his interlocutor out of his comfort zone and they start looking for the great truth together. From this perspective, irony, when I feel inconsistent, can be the source of research, wisdom, and, in some ways, freedom.

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Photo: Irakli Gedenidze

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_ da Tqven, sakuTar gamocdilebaSi, jer ar gaqvT pasuxi

_ sul? _ absoluturad sul.

napovni? _ me Zebnis procesSi var.

_ Zalian mkacri xom ar xarT Tqveni Tavis mimarT? _ aseTi naTqvami gamigia _ vinc sakuTari Tavis mimarT ar aris mkacri, sxvebis mimarT xdeba mkacrio. vfiqrob, saTanadod mkacri ar var sakuTari Tavis mimarT. SeiZleba, ufro mkacric unda viyo, rom ufro mimxvedri da lmobieri viyo sxvebis mimarT.

_ didi madloba uaRresad saintereso da damafiqrebeli saubrisTvis. intervius davasrulebT Tqveni komentariT cnobili adamianebis or gamonaTqvamze. pirveli citatis avtoria ingliseli filosofosi frensis bekoni (15611626): „yvelanairi siSiSvle Seuracxmyofelia, maT Soris, sulis siSiSvle. guldaxuruloba distancias gviqmnis da

_ axla, faqtobrivad, disciplinaze laparakobT. isic naTqvami gaqvT, disciplina da Tavisufleba ganuyofelia erTmaneTisgano. _ diax, cxadia.

gvicavs sxvebisgan.“ _ Zalian inglisuri gamoTqmaa. magram amaSi sibrZnec aris. SeiZleba Seni Tavic daicva da sxva adamianic imiT, rom ar misce is sityva, rasac adekvaturad ver daafasebs.

_ magaliTad, rogor? _ skolis periodSi mindoda, rom filologi gavmxdariyavi, es Cemi profesia yofiliyo, Cemi piradi kunZuli. rodesac raRac faqtorebi xels giSlis, rom Seni interesis profesia airCio da masSi daxelovnde, maSin daucveli xdebi da aTasi viRac gagitacebs, Tavisi cxovrebiT gacxovrebs. an politikur partiaSi gagawevrianebs, an biznesSi. imisTvis, rom icxovro, iseT raRacas gagakeTebinebs, rac saerTod ar gainteresebs. Tu Seni piradi profesia ar gaqvs da Seni niWi ar ganaviTare, Tu Sens sakuTar `miwaze~ ar dadeqi, _ mogiwevs, ise icxovro, rogorc sxva gaiZulebs. profesia rom ganiviTaro _ rac Tavisuflebis wyaroa _ amas disciplina da Zalisxmeva sWirdeba. yvela, vinc am ZalisxmevaSia, sakuTari TavisuflebisTvisac ibrZvis. es brZola mTeli cxovreba grZeldeba. _ miviRe pasuxi, gmadlobT. cxovrebis Sesaxeb ra aris is kiTxva, romelzec pasuxi ar gaqvT da romelic ar gasvenebT? _ (pauza) xandaxan fiqrob: ra kavSirSia WeSmariteba da bedniereba? aucilebelia, amaT Soris konfliqti iyos? Tu es konfliqti gadalaxvadia? an Tavisufleba da bedniereba _ konfliqturia, Tu erTad aris? rogorc vkiTxulob, maT Soris aris ierarqia. davuSvaT, bibliaSi vkiTxulob _ eZebe WeSmariteba, sxva yvelaferi mogecema. anu bedniereba mogecema. nicSec amas ambobs (cota seqsisturad ambobs), rom bedniereba qaliviT ariso, Sen Seni zekacuri saqme akeTe da is mogetmasnebao. ai, es asea Tu ar aris? Tu drama aris, rom adamianma an Tavisufleba unda airCios, an bedniereba? da gulisxmobs Tu ara bedniereba aucileblad kompromiss, zneobriv kompromiss, WeSmaritebis Semecnebis azartis raRacnairad Caqrobas, an Tavisuflebis nawilze uaris Tqmas, da kargia Tu ara es. me mgoni, es iseTi dilemebia, rasac pasuxi ar aqvs mzamzareuli da yvela Tavis cxovrebiseul gamocdilebaSi eZebs.

meore momentia, rom sxva adamianze ar unda iZalado Seni codniT da Seni grZnobebiT. _ anu Sengan daicva? _ diax, esec kulturis nawilia. droze adre Sedixar intimur, axlo sivrceSi, roca jer uamravi sxva raRac unda momxdariyo Tqven Soris, sanam am informaciis gaziarebaze gaxvidodiT. amitom, vfiqrob, aqac raRac gancdaa saWiro _ rodis ra Tqva; rodis ra informacia gauxsna sxva adamians. inglisuri gamoTqmaa, namdvili kaci is aris, visac tkivili aqvs gulSi da Rimili saxezeo. qarTuli gamoTqma cota sxvanairia: `didi lxinia WirTa Tqma~. _ meore citata ekuTvnis frang mwerals viqtor hiugos (1802-1885): „Tavisufleba iwyeba ironiiT.~ _ kargi gamoTqmaa. ironia aris kategoria, romelic sibrZnes ukavSirdeba. Sen ironizireb imaze, rac, xedav, rom sibrZnes ar Seesabameba. sokrateseuli ironiis wyaroc es aris. sokrates etyvian _ es asea, sokrate. da isic gaikvirvebs: „aqamde ar vicodi, didi madloba, rom miTxari, ra magari raRac yofila?! magram, modi, am kuTxiTac SevxedoT, es ase iqneba?~ sokrates ironia pedagogiuri ironiaa. is xvdeba, rom Tanamosaubre araadekvaturia didi saTqmelis mimarT da Zalian martivad ambobs imas, rac martivad ar iTqmis. TviTon sokratemac SeiZleba ar icodes, ra aris namdvili saTqmeli, magram imas ki xvdeba, rac arasworia. amitom, Tanamosaubre gamohyavs Tavisi Tavdajerebulobis sivrcidan da mere erTad eZeben. am gagebiT, ironia _ roca me vgrZnob Seusabamobas _ SeiZleba, iyos dasabami Ziebis, sibrZnis da, am gagebiT, _ Tavisuflebis.

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foto: irakli gedeniZe

vitorio selas foto, sofeli Rebi, 1890 weli

4 (22) 2020

PRINCE MATCHABELLI

„ganTavisuflebuli saqarTvelo da momavali Taobanic iamayeben im TavgadasavliT, romliTac Zvirfasma giorgim daamSvena erT-erTi ulamazesi, usaSiSroesi da uRrmesi gancdebiT savse furceli Cveni axali istoriisa“. Jurnali „samSoblo“, parizi, 1935, N17-18 (oqtomberi)

"Free Georgia and future generations will be proud of this adventure, by which our precious Giorgi beautified one of the most exciting and deeply sensitive pages of our new history”. Newspaper 'Samshoblo', Paris, 1935, N17-18 (October)

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Tqveno aRmatebulebav: Tqven brZandebodiT saqarTvelos demokratiuli respublikis elCi bolSevikebis Semosvlamde da Cveni qveynis okupaciamde. istoria TiTqos meordeba. rusebma Tqvens mamuls samaCablos saxeli Seucvales, `samxreT oseTi~ uwodes da axlaxan kidev erTxel daikaves es ZirZveli qarTuli miwa. Tumca ufali ar gagvwiravs da Tqveni sulic dagvexmareba davibrunoT TamaraSeni, kexvi, xeiTi, zemo da qvemo niqozi, cxinvali... ucnobi qalbatonis Canaweri

Your Highness: You were the ambassador of the Democratic Republic of Georgia before the Bolsheviks occupied our homeland. History is repeating itself. Russians renamed your land Samatchablo as South Ossetia and now reoccupied it, but God will help us to return it, your soul will help us to free Tamarasheni, Kekhvi, Kheiti, Upper and Lower Nikozi, Tskhinvali… A note by an unknown lady

`zRapridan mosuli princi~ _ giorgi maCabeli niuiorkelebs italieli jentlmeni egonaT... `italieli? _ ara, me qarTveli var...~ _ mokrZalebiT, sevdiani RimiliT ityoda Turme da gasabWoebuli samSoblosgan Sors, isev samSobloze fiqrobda, nostalgiaze aravisTan saubrobda da ucxo miwaze qarTuli CoxiT dadioda. arsebobs sinamdvile da miTebi giorgi maCabelze, Tumca istoriul maxsovrobaSi axlac Znelia maTi gancalkeveba... `Zveli qarTveli aristokrati da ganaTlebiT evropieli~ _ werda masze mixako wereTeli, grigol robaqiZes ki uTqvams: `giorgi aTas sabanSi rom Caaxvio da sadme damalo, vinc iq miva, maSinve Seityobs: aq saqarTvelos suniao...~ giorgi

‘Prince from a Fairytale’ – New-Yorkers used to mistake Georges Matchabelli for an Italian gentleman… ‘Italian? – No, I’m a Georgian…’ – he would say with a sad apologetic smile. Torn away from his homeland caught in a wave of Sovietization and dogged by wistful memories, he was extraordinarily terse about his bouts of nostalgia and was an instantly recognizable face for his sartorial appearance – he always wore a chokha (traditional male Georgian dress). There is a lot of myth surrounding Georges Matchabelli, which seems difficult even now to disentangle from reality… Mikhako Tsereteli referred to him as "a European-educated Georgian nobleman". "Even if huddled in dozens of quilts Georges will continue to exude the overpowering smell of something deliciously Georgian" – Grigol Robakidzde is

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ivane maCablis ZmisSvili iyo da `visac orive enaxa, pirwavardnil msgavsebas xedavdnen maTSi...~ àmerikel qalbatonebs Tavze samefo gvirgvinebi daadga princma, romelic saqarTvelodan, erTi keTili da warCinebuli ojaxidanaa...~ _ werda presa mister maCabelze, romelmac axali parfiumeruli brendiT SokSi Caagdo amerikuli elita. `maRalqusliani polsaboJkebi, kabebis Sriali, Slapebi, samkaulebi aRar aris sakmarisi imisTvis, rom mamakacebs Tavbru daaxvio, Cveni jadoqroba `princ maCablis~ axalmoduri surnelovani wylebia...~ _ Prince Matchabelli amerikeli qalbatonebis elegantur, Tumca macdur aqsesuarad iqca, romelmac sxva sixalise, romantika da Sarmi Seitana im depresiuli drois yoveldRiurobaSi... sunamoebis klasikuri xazi _ Prince Matchabelli aristokratebisTvis Seqmna da Tavbrudamxvevi cxovrebiT ganebivrebulebs àRmosavluri mistikiT~ Seferili surneli SesTavaza... `saqarTvelos dedofali~, `princesa norina~, òqros Semodgoma~ _ es sunamoebi `SefuTuli~ iyo samefo gvirgvinebis retro dizainsa da oqros detalebSi... Prince Matchabelli-s salonebi gaxsnili iyo kaliforniaSi, CikagoSi, texasSi... niu-iorkis salonur Sexvedrebsa da xmaurian

quoted as saying… Georges was Ivane Matchabelli’s nephew and "there was a startling likeness between them"… "The noble Prince of Georgian extraction has crowned the heads of American ladies" – dumbfounding the American elite with his perfumes, Matchabelli would attract wide newspaper coverage: "high-heeled shoes, the swishing sound of gowns, hats and jewelry come increasingly short of making men really dizzy. The thing supposed to work magic is now to be sought in Prince Matchabelli’s previously unknown female fragrance". Prince Matchabelli became an elegant and at the same time lusciously tempting accessory injecting a tremendous infusion of joy, charm and romanticism into the mundane routine of depressive reality… Prince Matchabelli – a classic perfume line - was designed to offer fragrance with a touch of "oriental mysticism" to aristocrats with pretentious airs and tastes. Queen of Georgia, Princess Norina and Golden Autumn were brands embossed with a regal crown design and golden patterns. Prince Matchabelli salons were run in California, Chicago and Texas. Georges Matchabelli made a great guest at social gatherings or wild parties in New York. A crowd of young women hanging around the Prince ‘were eyeing him questioningly, gripped by a frenzy of desire to strike up a conversation with him’. The muse of the Georgian

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gentleman, however, became Norlina Gilli, an Italian actress of mesmerizing beauty playing under the pseudonym of Maria Carmi. Georges Matchabelli married her in 1916. In 1926 he and his wife established the Prince Matchabelli Perfume Company. Spiridon Kedia: "Prince Matchabelli perfumes are hugely popular throughout America. Unfortunately, Georges made his first strides when America was going through a grave crisis but he is weathering the storm successfully. Prince Matchabelli is the only company to enjoy a steady growth of business turnover during these lean years of economic depression. Georges Matchabelli started his business from scratch with no money to hinge on. His only asset is his own enthusiasm and an in-depth knowledge of customer psychology. He appears to be a real aristocrat in his new profession…He set up offices simultaneously in Paris and London to earn his American company universal acclaim". Prince Matchabelli was an innovation in the America of the 1920s-30s and the Georgian Prince was the first to introduce a perfume brand in New York…

wveulebebze giorgi maCabeli yvelasTvis sasurvel stumrad iTvleboda. mravali mandilosani trialebda mis garSemo... `TvalebSi Sescicineben da masTan saubris mizezebs daeZeben~, magram qarTveli jentlmenis muza cnobili italieli msaxiobi, ulamazesi norina jili, Teatraluri fsevdonimiT maria karmi, gaxldaT, romelzec 1916 wels iqorwina da visTan erTadac 1926 wels, kompania Prince Matchabelli daaarsa. spiridon kedias mogonebidan: `mTel amerikaSi `Tavadi maCablis~ parfiumebi Zalian cnobili xdeba. samwuxarod, pirveli fexis adgmas Tan amerikuli krizisi mosdevs. giorgi am kriziss warmatebiT ebrZvis. marto maCablis firmaa, am saSineli depresiis wlebSi Tavis aReb-micemobas SeuCerebliv rom aviTarebs... giorgi maCabeli roca iwyebs parfiumeriis saqmes, TiTqmis xelcarielia, araferi gaaCnia... am saqmeSi mTeli misi Tanxa marto sakuTari pirovnebaa. giorgi iCens amerikeli momxmareblis fsiqologiis dakvirvebul codnas... is namdvili aristokrati gamodga Tavisi axali profesiisa... TiTqmis erTdroulad xsnis Tavis ganyofilebebs parizSi, londonSi, rom misi amerikuli firma msoflio reputacias daukavSiros~. da mainc, Prince Matchabelli iyo novacia 20-30-iani wlebis amerikaSi, anu niu-iorks pirvelad qarTvelma Tavadma

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Natural Extracts + Romanticism + Exoticism = Art. It was a formula which the perfumer thrashed out when engaged in the development of a classic perfume line. Tags and newspaper ads were another special feature of his experimental ‘art’. Golden Autumn – a stylish and gorgeously smelling perfume capturing the warm impression of ginger. Indulge your passion for it with a sense of pride and pleasure and imbibe the spirit of unexpected adventures. Apply perfume to the wrists, behind the ears and in the crook of the elbow to keep the scent radiating off the body ($4.00). Wind Song is a perfume that stands out for its freshness to create a tender long-lasting scent. Recommended for spraying on the forehead, neck and arms after a shower. Put on the fragrance early in the morning to envelop yourself and others in a soft mélange of floral aromas ($0.75). ‘Abano’ – Mingle Abano oil with warm water for a source of sheer delight. Once under your skin, it will let the alluring oriental aroma wash over you for hours. Just spoil yourself with this rare luxury. It will

Seuqmna parfiumeruli brendi... bunebrivi eqstraqtebi + romantika + egzotika = xelovneba _ daaxloebiT aseTi iyo parfiumeris Teoriuli formulebi, roca sunamoebis klasikur xazze muSaobda. misive xelwera iyo am eqsperimentuli `xelovnebis~ etiketebi da... sagazeTo reklamebi: `sunamo `oqros Semodgoma~ _ es aris Tanamedrove eqstra Tbili imbiris surnelis mqone Zalze gamorCeuli da aRmafrTovanebeli sunamo. Tu gsurT iyoT misi saxelwodebis msgavsad saukeTeso, ixmareT amayad da siamovnebiT. is iqneba sawindari yovelive araCveulebrivisa. daiwveTeT ramdenime wveTi majebze, idayvebze, yelTan, yurebis ukan. es aris sunamos xmarebis yvelaze swori wesi, raTa suni kargad igrZnobodes ($4.00)~. `sunamo `qaris simRera~ _ abazanis Semdeg unda SeisxuroT kiserze, mklavebze, Sublze. es moganiWebT sasiamovno sigrilis SegrZnebas mTeli dRis ganmavlobaSi. ixmareT adre dilidan moyolebuli xSirad. mas aqvs yvavilebisa da tyis SesaniSnavi nazi surneli, romelic Tqven da Tqvens garSemo myofTac karg ganwyobas SegiqmniT ($0.75)~. `zeTi abano~ _ zeTi, cota raodenobiT Casxmuli Tbil

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wyalSi, mogcemT araCveulebrivi siamovnebis miRebis saSualebas. organizmis mier TandaTanobiT Sewovis Semdeg, Tqven ramdenime saaTiT CaiZirebiT am aRmosavlur aromatSi. gamoZebneT dro _ isiamovneT am fufunebiT. is agimaRlebT ganwyobas, mogixsniT daRlilobas, gaganebivrebT da mogesiyvarulebaT. roca saRamos xangrZlivi droiT sadme wabrZandebiT, misi wyalobiT garSemortymuli iqnebiT jadosnuri auriT ($1.50)~. da mainc, rogori iyo am rTuli gzis dasawyisi? gana Prince Matchabelli iyo giorgis amerikuli ocneba? `emigrantebs didi gasaWiri mogvelis, gaWirvebuli da mSieri ucxoeTSi verc Rirsebas Seinaxavs da verc qveynisTvis imuSavebs politikurad. amitom mTel Cem energias davxarjav, rom amerikaSi simdidre SeviZino da es bolos gamogvadgeba damoukidebeli saqmianobisaTvis~ _ uTqvams amerikaSi mimaval maCabels mixako wereTlisTvis berlinSi... safrangeTSi emigrirebuli mTavrobis politikur intrigebSi is ar ereoda, magram 1926 wels niu-iorkSi gaxsnil da male warmatebul biznesad gadaqceuli saqmis mTavar miznad okupirebul saqarTveloSi wiTeli diqtaturis damarcxeba dausaxavs...

give you a wonderful feeling of serenity, make your fatigue evaporate forever and hold you in a gentle caress. Use it as part of your evening wear and let it weave its magic spell around you ($1.50). And how did this complicated journey start? Could Prince Matchabelli be the fulfillment of Georges’ American dream? "There is going to be considerable hardship for emigrants. People living in abject poverty and distress are doomed to surrender their dignity and stripped of the ability to support their country politically. I am therefore channeling all my energies into the task of making a fortune in America that will prop up our independent activity" – Georges Matchabelli told Mikhako Tsereteli in Berlin… Georges was actually distancing himself from the political intrigues of the government in exile in France. However, the toughest task he set himself and his flourishing business in New York in 1926 was to overthrow the red dictatorship on the occupied territory of Georgia…’Georges is the only man among Georgian emigrants catching on in a big way geared towards gaining a dominant position on the world market… Georges is applying himself thoroughly to meeting this challenge in order to turn immediately to the attainment of another goal: putting himself full-bloodedly at the service of Georgian politics and championing the cause of freedom shoulder-to-shoulder with his loyal friends…" -

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`mTel qarTul emigraciaSi marto giorgi qmnis dids axal saqmes, romelic swrafad mieqaneba msoflio bazarze pirveli adgilis dasaWerad... am miznis miRweva giorgis imisTvis unda, rom meore miznis (qarTuli politikis) samsaxurSi male gadavides, rom kvlav Seudges saqarTvelos Tavisuflebis axlad gamoWedvis saqmes Tavis dacdil megobrebTan erTad...~ _ spiridon kedias mogonebidan. `Cven qarTuli saqme da erovnuli mizani maSin SegviZlia davayenoT mtkice safuZvelze, roca movaxerxebT finansuri saZirkvlis Cayras, Torem marto memorandumebis weriT bevri araferi gamodis. roca nivTieri sayrdeni gveqneba, maSin memorandumebsac saWiro Zala Seemateba da imoqmedebs...~ _ givi kobaxiZis Canawerebidan. manamde ki, 1914 wels, giorgi maCabelma TanamoazreebTan erTad, berlinSi, saqarTvelos damoukideblobis komiteti daaarsa. swored am komitetis iniciativiT daido xelSekruleba ruseTSi, 1917 wlis revoluciis Semdeg, germania-avstria-osmaleTis mTavrobebTan saqarTvelos

Spiridon Kedia. "Our national cause and goals can only be advanced if built on a solid financial base. Otherwise, the memoirs we are writing will lead us nowhere. With our feet on firm financial ground, our memoirs will take on a genuinely meaningful focus and get their message across…" – Givi Kobakhidze. In 1914, Georges Matchabelli acting in league with his fellow thinkers founded the committee of independent Georgia in Berlin. Following the Russian revolution in 1917, the committee brokered agreements on the recognition of Georgia’s independence with the governments of Germany, Austria and Ottoman Turkey. The notorious submarine operation also traces its history back to Georges Matchabelli and… the Stockholm marine corps. Committee members aboard a German submarine made three penetrations into the territory of Georgia from Istanbul. Koki Dadiani’s estate was used as a storehouse for smuggled weapons…Mikhako Tsereteli uncovers seemingly unimportant but interesting details of the clandestine maritime operation: "They seemed clearly in a good mood when boarding the vessel. However, beneath this festive mood there was

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damoukideblobis cnobaze. wyalqveSa navebis operaciac giorgi maCabelsa da... stokholmis samxedro-sazRvao Stabs ukavSirdeba. damkomis wevrebi germaniis wyalqveSa navebiT, stambolidan saqarTveloSi, samjer Semovidnen. farulad Semotanil iaraRs koki dadianis sagvareulo mamulSi inaxavdnen... saidumlo sazRvao eqspediciis dros viTom umniSvnelo, Tumca saintereso detalebze wers mixako wereTeli: `jer sxvebi Cavidnen navSi rigrigobiT da sakmaod kargi, mSvidi ganwyobiT. metnaklebad odnavi Relva yvelas etyoboda. ar Relavda mxolod is, visac gamocdili hqonda amgvari mogzauroba. bolos Cavida qarcivaZe. davrCi marto me. uceb amitana moulodnelma SiSma da ukan davixie da uari vTqvi ise, rom wasvla davapire. am dros saxeSecvlilma giorgi maCabelma daaZro revolveri da CemTvis sruliad ucnobi, manamde ganucdeli xmiT miTxra: Cadi Torem aqve dagawven! es iseTi mtkice gadawyvetilebiT iyo naTqvami, is namdvilad momklavda. me swrafad Cavirbine da SevuerTdi sxvebs~. giorgi maCabels germaniis politikur elitaSi didi avtoriteti hqonda da amitomac ruseTis kontrdazverva mas `germaniis agents~ eZaxda, mis suraTebs avrcelebda da, rogorc saSiS damnaSaves, amaod dasdevda. miuxedavad am devnisa sul cdilobda, TamaraSenSi Tavis mamulSi, maCablebis saTavado rezidenciaSi, cota xniT mainc Casuliyo...

an underlying apprehension. Those who seemed calmer owed their composure to previous experience of similar voyages. Kartsivadze was the last to get inside the submarine. I was left outside, quite alone. Gripped suddenly by an enormous fear I walked back a few steps and was about to flee when Georges Matchabelli produced a revolver and told me in a deadly flat voice: "get inside or I’ll shoot you down!" The strain of bitterness in his voice was such as to make me feel that he was indeed going to do away with me, so I had no other option but to run down the stairs and join the others".

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1921 wels, gasabWoebis dros, Tavadi maCabeli italiaSia saqarTvelos demokratiuli respublikis elCad. Tavisuflebis marcxi misTvis mZime, Tumca moulodneli ar yofila... mixako wereTeli igonebs: `berlinSi mimavalma stamboliTgan romSi vnaxe. CvenTvis saqarTvelos ubedureba mosalodneli iyo... sazRvari ara hqonda giorgis mwuxarebas da ambobda: saqarTvelos sakiTxi didi xniT gadaidva, magram niWieri da energiuli kacebi rom hyoloda mmarTvelad damoukidebel saqarTvelos, SeiZleba es ubedureba ar dagvmarTodao...~ ra iyo es _ realobis aRiareba Tu Tavadis sevdiani sayveduri?.. Semdeg italiidan _ amerikaSi, politikidan

Georges Matchabelli enjoyed a solid reputation among the German political elite. He qualified as a German agent and was wanted by Russian counter-intelligence as one of the most dangerous criminals. Being thus chased, though, he kept gravitating towards his house in Tamarasheni, known as the Matchabelli patrimonial residence. Prince Matchabelli served as ambassador of the Democratic Republic of Georgia to Italy immediately before the establishment of Soviet rule in Georgia in 1921. The defeat of the cause of freedom was excruciatingly painful but far from unexpected… Mikhako Tsereteli recalls: "I met Georges during my stopover in Rome en route from Istanbul to Berlin. The imminence of Georgia’s collapse had been on everyone’s mind… Georges was wallowing in his own grief: the case of Georgia has been shelved to gather dust for a long time. But Georgia would have escaped this disaster had it been ruled by gifted and enthusiastic people…" What was it – Prince Matchabelli’s calm acceptance of reality or his sad complaint?... Later he made the simultaneous transition from politics to business and from Italy to America, temporarily though… His perfume brand Prince Matchabelli, which ranked in the top five of the biggest international corporations in America, served as a powerful symbol of Georgia in New York… Though starting as a simple hobby, the venture yielded exceptionally large profits… The opening ceremony of yet another of Prince Matchabelli’s salons, set to take place on 711th avenue in New York in 1935, awaited the presence of British designer Cecil Beaton and photographer Pavel Tchelitchew. Everything went haywire, however, after Mr. Matchabelli, on a business trip to set up branches in California, caught cold and died of pneumonia shortly afterwards…He was buried in New York… "Prince Matchabelli never returned to his fold and principality in Georgia after the Russian Federation, but in a new homeland he found on the other side of the world, his name still continues to be heard and his work – honoured". The American press coverage his perfumes gained subsequently was phenomenal indeed. "Prince Matchabelli ranks high among the most luxurious perfumes in America and beyond… It retains its original name and is still based on the same formula no one was subtle enough to change…"

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ki biznesSi gadavida, magram droebiT... niu-iorkSi misTvis saqarTvelos simbolo parfiumeruli brendi Prince Matchabelli iyo, romelic 20-iani wlebis amerikaSi `xuT umniSvnelovanes saerTaSoriso korporaciebs Soris dasaxelda~. arada, yvelaferi daiwyo ubralo hobidan da... am mokrZalebulma wamowyebam grandiozuli Semosavlebi moitana... 1935 wels niu-iorkSi 711 aveniuze Prince Matchabelli-s kidev erTi eleganturi saloni unda gaxsniliyo. prezentaciaze mowveulebi iyvnen britaneli dizaineri sesil betini da fotografi pavel CelisCevi, magram moulodnelad yvelaferi CaiSala. filialebis gaxsnis

mizniT mister maCabelma kaliforniaSi imogzaura, gzaSi gacivda da erT kviraSi filtvebis anTebiT gardaicvala... igi dakrZales niu-iorkSi... `marTalia princi maCabeli veRarasodes daubrunda Tavis samSoblos da mis istoriul samefos ruseTis revoluciis Semdeg, magram man daafuZna axali mamuli msoflios meore mxareze, sadac misi saxeli da misi Rvawli ganagrZobs sicocxles...~ _ mere da mere TiTqmis msgavsi teqstebi ibeWdeba amerikul presaSi. `sunamo Prince Matchabelli dResac erT-erTi saukeTesoa amerikaSi da ara marto amerikaSi... dRemde mis saxels atarebs ucvlelad da mzaddeba misive Tavdapirveli receptiT, romlis Secvla veravin SeZlo...~

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zurab kiknaZe

zurab Jvania - kaci da xelisufali

ZURAB KIKNADZE

ZURAB ZHVANIA – THE MAN AND THE LEADER 1989 wlis Semodgomis erT mSvenier dRes jer kidev studentma giorgi maisuraZem moiyvana zurabi CemTan binaze. imxnad ramdenime TanamzraxvelTan erTad universitetis avtonomiiT viyavi gatacebuli. giorgic am jgufSi iyo. erT dRes meubneba, erTi megobari unda gagacno, masac surs SenTan saubario. sruliad axalgazrda ariso, ise ambobda, TiTqos Tavad masze ufrosi yofiliyos. zurabi maSin 26 wlis iyo, Tavad giorgi _ albaT ocis. asakze albaT imitom amaxvilebda yuradRebas, rom Tavis megobarSi raRac bavSvurs xedavda (TiTqos mafrTxilebda) da asakisTvis uCveulo SesaZleblobebsac. misi aqtivobis oTxi weli CemTvis

On a beautiful autumn day of 1980, Giorgi Maisuradze, who was still a student back then, brought Zurab Zhvania to my place. At that time, together with some like-minded people, I was very busy working on the autonomy of the University. Giorgi was part of this group. One day, he told me he had to get me acquainted with one of his friends, who wanted to talk to me. “He’s very young”, he said, as if he were older, which he clearly wasn’t. Zurab was 26 years old back then, while Giorgi was perhaps about 20. He was probably insisting on age because he was seeing some childish qualities in his friend (as if he was warning me), as well as unusual potential for his age. The four active years he had led before that day were unknown to me. I was seeing him for the first time. At first sight, he did look

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cnobili ar iyo. mas pirvelad vxedavdi. axlad gacnobili mainc Tavis asakze axalgazrda momeCvena. ijda Cem win svarZelSi Tavis CanTasTan erTad da miRimoda. mas surda moesmina ras iytoda axalgacnobili. salaparako bevri iyo. im dResac da merec. Cveni mcdeloba universitetis avtonomiis aRdgenisTvis, ramac Cveni pirveli Sexvedra gamoiwvia, cota ar iyos, romantikuli iyo. imxnad zurab Sengelia, maTematikosi, iyo erTaderTi, vinc sxva safiqralTan Soris, fiqrobda imaze, Tu rogor unda daebrunebina is qoneba da mamulebi universitets, romelic Tavis droze mas saxelmwifom gadasca. maT Soris zoologiuri parki. axlad gacnobil zurabs SeeZlo aetaca es idea, magram misTvis sxva ram aRmoCnda aqtualuri. mowodeba sxva horizontisken mimarTavda mis interesebs. imxnad Cems SegnebaSi, rasac zurabic iziarebda, universiteti, Tumc miniaturulad, mainc sruli sisavsiT, sxvadasxvagvarad (Tundac demografiulad) gamoxatavda mTel qveyanas. im periodis oromtrialis, Zvelis da yvelafris lewva-ngrevis xanaSi, universitetisaTvis yvelaze bunebrivi, aqtualuri moTxovna, misi avtonomiurobis aRdgena unda yofiliyo. maSin am aqtSi vWvretdiT qveynis damoukideblobis xats, radgan universitetis bedSi SegveZlo mTeli qveynis bedi amogvekiTxa. Tavisuflad Sobili Cvgeni universitetis xanmokle, magram mravaltanjuli cxovreba xom Tavis TavSi ireklavda saqarTvelos ukanaskneli xanis istorias. amitom vfiqrobdiT, rom misi Tavisufleba qveynis Tavisuflebis winamorbedi iqneboda, magram ymawvili zurabi sxva asparezss umiznebda. Tumca, unda gamovtydeT, rom yoveli maSindeli mcdeloba, avtonomiis mopovebisken mimarTuli (araformaluri saxiT gamocxadda kidec universitetis saaqto darbazSi), mainc CaiSleboda (da asec moxda) `mrgvali magidis~ xelisuflebis xelSi, romlis warmomadgenlebs arc erT frontze ar undodaT sadaveebis xelidan gaSveba (yoveli xelisuflebis seni es yofila). man, vinc avtonomiis ideiT unda gamsWvaluliyo (da asec iyo misi disidentobis xanaSi), amjerad xelisuflebis umaRles safexurze moxvedrilma, zurgi Seaqcia mas, dauSva, rom Tavad idea gaqilikebuliyo. mere xSirad, roca erovnul moZraobaze da mis Seuqcevad, arcTu saxarbielo saxarbielo Sedegebze Camovardnila saubari, zurabisTvis gamixsenebia iniversitetissazogadoebis imJamindeli gulgriloba alma materis bedisadmi. maxsovs, erTi Sexvedris dros zurabmma (is ukve parlamentis Tavmjdomare iyo), eWvi gamoTqva demokratiis (ufro sworad, misi Cveneburi saxeobis) mizanSewonilobaze. sayveduri amgvarad iyo gamoTqmuli: _ Tqven ar irCevT imas, vinc gindaT, da irCevT imas, vinc ar gindaT, anu arCevans moklebuli xarT. xom ar aRvadginoT daniSvnis praqtika? _ rogor, am pirobebSimeTqi? ironiiT, romelSic, SesaZloa vinmes sinanuli

younger than he actually was. He was sitting in the sofa in front of me with his briefcase, smiling at me. He wanted to hear what his new acquaintance had to say. There was a lot to be said. On that day, and later, too. Our attempt to restore the autonomy of the University, which was the foundation of our first meeting, was, to say the least, a bit romanticized. At that time, mathematician Zurab Shengelia was the only one who, along with other issues, was looking for ways to return to the University the assets and lands that were once handed to it by the state. Including the zoological garden. Zurab Zhvania could have jumped on this idea, but he deemed another matter to be more topical. His calling was directing him towards different horizons. At that time, in my mind – and Zurab shared the same feeling, the University, even if in a miniature way, was fully representative of the country in many ways (at least demographically). At that period of disorder, of destruction of the old and of everything, the most natural, topical requirement of the university should have been the restoration of its autonomy. We were seeing the icon of the independence of our country in this act, because we could associate the fate of our university and that of the whole country. The short but long-suffering life of our university in freedom was, indeed, reflecting the most recent part of Georgian history. This is why we thought that its freedom would be a forerunner the country’s freedom, but the young Zurab was aiming at a different scale. But we have to admit that every attempt of the time to attain autonomy (which was actually declared informally in the University’s assembly hall) would be thwarted (and they were) by the “round table” in control, the representatives of which didn’t want to let go from the reins of power in any way. The person who was supposed to be inspired by the idea of autonomy (and he actually was during his dissident years), who had now reached the highest level of authority, turned his back to it, even letting the idea be made fun of. Later, when we were discussing

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amoekiTxa, mipasuxa: _ swored es aris saqme, rom amas ver vakeTebT am pirobebSi, da verc Tqvensas ver akeTebT am pirobebSi. kargia, Tu xelisufleba Zveleburad ver iqceva-meTqi. Cvenc visawvliT arCevans axleburad. magram saqme is aris, rom es jer Cven ar arsebobda, es Cven, romelsac demokratia unda etarebina, SesaZloa, dResac ar arsebobs, rogoric unda iyos. mxolod da mxolod simulacia (davesesxebi gigi TevzaZes), maSinac da dResac, `poziciaSic~ da opoziciaSic. winaswarmetyvel ieremias SeZaxili: _ gahyvirian, mSvidoba, mSvidobao, magram ar aris mSvidoba _ zedgamoWrilia Cveni aqtualuri sazogadoebriv-politikuri yofisTvis, oRond, am yvelasaTvis gasageb sityvas sayovelTaod gaugebari demokratiiT Sevcvlidi. yvela, pozicia-opozicia gaiZaxis `demokratias~, magram... zurab Jvanias upiratesob, Cemi fiqriT, is iyo, rom igi uSualod erovnuli moZraobidan ar modioda. misi politikuri azrovneba Tavisufali iyo im yaidis patriotizmisgan, romelsac gansazRvravda metwilad siZulvili Zveli reJimisadmi (xSirad nabanisTvis bavSvis gadayolebiT), partiebs Soris undobloba da urTierTSuric ki, rac im xanis megafonebidan

the irreversible and not so enviable results of the National Movement, I have often reminded the indifference of the University society towards the fate of their Alma Mater to Zurab. I remember that during a meeting, Zurab (who was already the Speaker of the Parliament) voiced his doubts about the appropriateness of democracy (to be more exact, of the kind of democracy we were living in at that time). The concern was expressed in the following way: – “You are not choosing the person you want, but the person you do not want, so you are actually devoid of elections. Shouldn’t we reinstate the practice of appointing leaders?” – “How, in these conditions?”, I asked. Not without some irony, in which one might have also found some regret, he answered: – “This is precisely the problem, that we are not able do this in these conditions, and you are not able to do what you should in these conditions either.” I told him that it was a good thing that the authorities were not able to act as they used to. That we would learn to practice elections in a new way. But the thing is that this “we” didn’t exist yet, this “we” that had to carry democracy might not even exist now, at least not in the form it should. It is but a simulation (I will borrow Gigi Tevzadze’s words), it was and still is a simulation, both in the “position” and the opposition. As prophet Jeremiah put it: “They are saying: “Peace, peace”, but there is no peace". It perfectly fits our current sociopolitical state, I would only replace the word “peace” by the word “democracy”, which by the way, no one understands. Everybody, the “position”, the opposition, are saying “democracy”, but… I think the advantage of Zurab Zhvania was that he was not coming directly from the National Movement. His political thoughts were free from their patriotism, which was accompanied by a hatred towards the former regime (often throwing the baby out with the bathwater), and distrust – and even jealousy – between parties, which could be heard through the megaphones at the rallies of the time (the blood shed on the 9th of April turned out necessary for an ephemeral unity that we are still longing for to this day). Several defamatory clichés were well-established and used to label opponents. This offensive political strategy has been perpetuated for a long time and is still used as a time-tested “destructive” method. Zurab has experienced the blow of this weapon on himself – so-called “disclosures” wouldn’t stop in print media after he became a public figure. Political figures, if they are following this path truthfully and not for personal goals, are resistant to any kind of insinuation, and wouldn’t start justifying themselves over and over. Zurab was above all this, and if it became absolutely necessary, he would honorably, calmly answer, and always with humor. He would never come down from the heights of the vocation he was endowed with. He didn’t need to express his indignation because his personal dignity was attacked, which was giving way to many vulgar actions from his “opponents”. This was an illustration of his soul’s aristocracy, a character very few could argue he didn't boast. He was following his own path, and didn’t fall victim to any authority other than his own, inner truth. Each time this weapon was used against him, I was reminded that at a gathering at a friend’s place, where embryos of future leading

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iRvreboda (9 aprilis sisxli aRmoCnda aucilebeli efemeruli erTianobisTvis, romelsac dRemde mivtiriT). damkvidrebuli iyo defamaciis ramdenime kliSe, romelsac iarliyad miakerebdnen mowinaaRmdeges (maT Soris, momakvdinebeli sukis agentoba). politikuri brZolis am xerxma didxans gastana da dRemde modis, rogorc nacadi `gamanadgurebeli~ saSualeba. zurabs uwvnevia Tavis Tavze am iaraRis dartyma _ beWvdiTi mediidan ar wydeboda `mxilebebi~ mas Semdeg, rac is sajaro piri gaxda. politikuri moRvawe, Tuki is gulwrfelad, ara sakuTari miznebisTvis mihyveba am mowodebas, Serigebulia yovelgvar insinuaciebs da ar dauSvebs Tavis marTlebis mRvrie morevSi CaTrevas. zurabi yovelive amis zemoT idga da, Tu aucilebeli iyo, Rirseulad, auRelveblad, mxolod da mxolod iumoriT pasuxobda. igi Tavisi mowodebis simaRlidanZirs ar eSveboda. mas ar sCveoda aRSfoTebis gamoxatva sakuTari personis Rirsebis Selaxvis gamo, rac bevr mis `oponentSi~ plebeur Zirebs amxelda. amaSi vxedavdi misi sulis Tandayolil aristokratobas, raSic mas iSviaTad Tu vinme Seecileboda. is midioda Tavis gzaze da sxva avtoritets, garda Tavisi Sinaganad gancdili simarTlisa, ar cnobda. misi misamarTiT am iaraRis yovel gamoyenebaze maxsendeboda: erTxel wveulebaze megobris binaSi, sadac saojaxo dResaswaulebze periodulad ikribebodnen arcTu Soreuli momavlis xelisufalTa da opoziciis embrionebi, zurabi bevrs xumrobda politikur Temebze, aSarJebda, rogorc sCveoda, zogierT situacias Tu movlenas da, bolos sicilnarevi seriozulobiT: `momeci megafoni da getyvi, vina xar Sen~. es sityvebi, rogorc igavi da andaza, iyo im epoqis diagnozi. ra dasamalia: moZraoba, romelic sruliad saqarTvelos saxeliT laparakobda, urTierTdaundoblobiT, ciliswamebiT da `mxilebiT~ daiwyo. kinos saxlTan (romelic adgilic aris da garkveuli periodis niSanic _ istoriuli qronotopi) Semxvda mxarze Camokidebuli Tavisi ganuyreli CanTiTurT, romelTanac erTad gavicani (im xanebSi uCanTo zurab Jvania ar Semxvedria), RimiliT gamimxila, partias vaarsebo. ra partias-meTqi? mwvaneTa partiaso. saxeli ar gamkvirvebia (mwvaneTa moZraoba Tu asociacia, romelic sul male CaerTo saerTaSoriso urTierTobaSi, albaT, partiad unda gardaqmniliyo). cxadia, saxelwodeba erTgvarad pirobiTic iyo. es eWviT miviRe: Senca zurab? kidev erTi partia?! rogor ar unda mqonoda eWvis mizezi, roca Cven Tvalwin sokosaviT abadebodnen partiebi. Semdeg gairkva, rom es mxolod safexuri iyo. erTi etapi misi politikuri karieris gzaze. bolodan Tu gadavxedavT, retrospeqtrulad, misi nabijebi cnobierad Tu aracnobierad gaTvlili iyo momavalze, im politikur

figures of the political party in power and of the opposition would gather during family celebrations, Zurab was often joking about political subjects, he was mocking, as he used to, some situations and events, in the end, with a seriousness marked with laughter: “Give me your megaphone, and I will tell you who you are”. These words, as a parable and saying, was a diagnosis of that period. There is nothing to hide here: a movement that was talking on behalf of the entire country, was founded on treacherousness, defamation, and “disclosures”. I once met him near the Cinema House (which is both a place and a symbol of a specific period of time – a historic chronotope), with his eternal briefcase, the same briefcase he had when I first met him, hanging from his shoulder (at that time, it was very rare to see Zurab Zhvania without this briefcase), and with a smile, he told me he was founding a political party. What party, I asked him. He answered: the Green Party. I wasn’t surprised by the name (the Green movement

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cxovrebaze, romelSic mTeli arsebiT gadaeSva. erTxel guram TevzaZem miTxra (adgilic maxsovs, droc: universitetis win, Wadrebis qveS, naSuadRevs): xedav, dRiTi dRe rogor izrdeba politikosad? misma Tvalma mis gzaSi evolucia dainaxa, me ki naxtomi davinaxe. rom ar mcodnoda misi mramalmxrivi interesebi da unarebi saeRto SemecnebiTi Tu, ubralod, adamianuri niWis fonze, vifiqrebdi, rom masSi am naxtomiT moxda imis manifestacia, rasac SobiTganve atarebda, anu vifiqrebdi, rom politika iyo misi erTaderTi mowodeba. im periodSi, roca, figuralurad rom vTqvaT, gaixsna Tavisuflebis saqanelni, erovnulma moZraobam, rogorc mamuliSvilobis ukidegano, Tumca calmxrivi, gamovlenis Sansma, bevrs gauCina politikosobis iluzia: miatoves adrindeli profesiebi da uangarod Tu angarebiT gadaeSvnen politikuri brZolis RurRumelSi. bevrs xeli moecara, mciredni SerCnen politikas. umravlesobas hqonda iluzia, rom litoni da, amdenadve, totalitaruli patriotobis gamudmebuli gacxadebiT damyardeboda qveyanaSi erovnuli samoTxe (`win, daviT aRmaSeneblisken!~). dRes ar surT imis gacnobiereba, rom swored amgvarad aRebulma gezma erovnuli politikis gzaze Seuwyo xeli qveynis teritoriuli mTlianobis, SesaZloa, sxvagan Cafiqrebul rRvevas. zurabi Tavisufali iyo am patriotuli miTosisgan, romelic warsulisken iyo orientirebuli. Tanamedrove erovnul politikoss ki momavlisken unda gaexeda.

or association, which would very soon get involved in international relations, probably needed to become a party anyway). Naturally, the name was, in part, just a formality. I had my reservations: “You too, Zurab? One more party?!” How could I not have reservations, when I was seeing political parties sprouting up like mushrooms everywhere. But later, it became clear that this was only a stepping stone. One particular stage on the path to his political career. If we look at it in hindsight, his steps were, whether consciously or unconsciously, taking into consideration the future, and the political life in which he would immerse himself with his whole being. Once, Guram Tevzadze told me (I remember the place and the time – in front of the university, below plane trees, in the middle of the day): “Can you see how he is becoming more of a politician with every passing day?” He was looking at this step as an evolution in his path, while I was seeing a giant leap. If I hadn’t known his various interests and cognitive skills, or simply his value as a human being, I would have thought that this leap was a manifestation of something he was carrying from birth, or in other words, that being a politician was his only vocation. At a time when, to say it figuratively, a torrent of freedom burst into our lives, the National Movement, as a limitless, though one-sided, chance of manifesting patriotism, has created the illusion of politicking in the minds of many: they left their former profession and engaged in the whirlpool of political battle, either selflessly or selfishly. Few remained in politics. The majority of them had the illusion that by simply insisting on a plain, and accordingly totalitarian patriotism, a national heaven would be established in the country (“Forward to David Aghmashenebeli!”). Today, they do not want to realize that it is

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saxelmwifo sabWos erT-erT sxdomaze (dro iyo: afxazeTis omis dasawyisi) amfiTeatris mopirispire frTidan momesma xma, romelic TandaTan Zlierdeboda, ikrebda Zalas da, bolos, mexistexaSi gadaizarda. gverdiT mjdomma, aw gansvenebulma iuristma zurab axvledianma, Cailaparaka: Смотри, он говорит как власть имеющий. marTlac! es xma Zalauflebis namdvili manifestacia iyo, im dafarulis gamocxadeba, romelic adamianSi mzaddeba da Sesaferis Jams eZebs, rom Tavi iCinos. da Jamic dgeba. am xmas vuwode me naxtomi. nuTu es is aris, CanTagadakidebuli rom gavicani da guSinac da guSinwinac Sevxvdi-meTqi? xdeba xSirad, rom pirvelgacnobis xats gadafaravs Semdgomi saxe, magram zurabis SemTxvevaSi ase ar moxda: Sinaganma xedvam cocxlad SeinarCuna pirveli STabeWdileba. kerZo kacs gverdSi amoudga saxelmwifo kaci, da mas mere masTan Sexvedrebisas orives vxedavdi da dRemde ase darCa Cems cnobierebaSi. zurabi mudam rCeboda im yofiTi dReebis zurabad Tundac arcTu Sezrdili megobrebisTvis: urTierTobaSi zomierad nazi, sada, gulisxmieri, gulwrfeli, gulaxdili, mudam keTilganwyobili, TanamgrZnobeli, xelSewyobisTvis mzadmyofi (risi mowme piradad vyofilvar). magram ekranidan xSirad gvinaxavs gamexebuli vefxvis saxe! zurab Jvanias, rogorc politikuri moRvawis bedi, tragikuli aRmoCnda, magram ara mxolod misi amgvari aRsasrulis an imis gamo, rom swored maSin Sewyda (ramac mavanT da mavanT SvebiT amoasunTqebina) misi politikursazogadoebrivi kariera, roca igi SemoqmedebiTi aRmavlobis SuaZalze imyofeboda. tragizmi iyo SeusabamobaSi, romelmac Tavi iCina ideasa da im wres Soris, romelsac es idea unda ganexorcielebina. saukuno winaaRmdegoba nebasa da realobas Soris, romelSic es neba xorcs unda isxamdes. mas, Tumca gamWriax adamians, hqonda iluzia, rom imxnad msoflio politikur asparezze saxelganTqmuli pirovneba SeZlebda etvirTa saqarTveloSi demokratiis principebis danergva, anu axali saqarTvelos Seneba. bevrs hqonda imedi, rom es adamiani SeZlebda daeZlia Tavis TavSi Zveli kaci da Semosiliyo axali kaciT. TiTqos aseTi gardaqmna SeuZlebeli ar unda yofiliyo. Tumca imJamindeli laparaki savledan pavleze gardaqmnaze sruli profanacia iyo. martivi logika, pirveli pirisgan gacxadebuli, ase JRerda: maSin, roca savle viyavi, ise iyo saWiro, axla ki, roca pavle var, asea saWiro. magram es asea, kvlav da kvlav ise grZeldeboda. isev da isev konformizmi, gaubedaoba, yoymani warsulsa da awmyos Soris, aCrdilis SiSi... Tumca sakmarisi iyo ubralod uangaro pragmatizmi, romelic axali kacis dabadebas miscemda sazriss. magram es ar moxda: arc Zveli, arc axali, raRac saSualo burJuaziuli. zurab Jvanias tragediac es iyo. gacruebad ganwirul imedebs Sealia Tavisi energia, paTosic

precisely this political approach that set the stage for the collapse – perhaps planned abroad – of our country’s territorial integrity. Zurab was free from this patriotic mythos directed towards the past. He knew that modern politicians had to look ahead. At one of the state council sessions (during the beginning of the Abkhazian war), I heard a voice from the other side of the amphitheater, a voice that was getting louder and louder, that was increasing in volume, and in the end, stroke like thunder. The late jurist Zurab Akhlvediani, who was sitting next to me, murmured: “Look, he speaks as if he had some authority.” And it was true! This voice was a true manifestation of authority, the declaration of something that was rumbling inside someone, waiting for the good time to come out and show oneself. And it was time. I called this voice “the leap”. Was he the same person I was introduced to, the one who came to my place with his briefcase, and whom I had seen the day before? It often happens that the impressions someone left you during your first encounter are trumped by their future actions, but in Zurab’s case, it didn’t happen like that: my impression of him remained as it was the first time I met him. It’s just that the character of a statesman was added to that of the private individual, and after that, when I was meeting him, I would see both of these characters simultaneously, and to this day, my consciousness approaches him like that. Zurab

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da eTosic. is iZulebiTi nabijebi, romelTac Sors mimavali strategia moiTxovda misgan, ukve misi nebisgan damoukideblad wesad inergeboda da dRemde asea. esec misi tragedia iyo. magram ra iwvevs tragikuls adamianis cxovrebaSi, Tu ara Tavisufali arCevani, es metismetad adamianuri aqti, imdenad adamianuri, rom igi gansazRvravs adamianis, rogorc RvTis xatis, arsebas. bevri politikosi iswrafvis karieris mwvervalisken, maT Soris mciredni aRweven mwvervals, magram mciredze mciredni, TiTqmis gamonaklisni Tu arian mzad, romelTac Zali SeswevT uari Tqvan miRweulze. visac es SeuZlia, Sinaganad gancdili Tavisuflebis ZaliT SeuZlia. zurabmac, mwvervalTan myofma, daTmo Tanamdeboba politikuri haeris gasaniaveblad. am aqtma aCvena, ra iyo misTvis ufro metad Rirebuli. maqs veberis sityvebi rom movixmaroT, is cxovrobda politikisTvis, ara politikiT, rom Tavisi yofiTi cxovreba myudrod moewyo.

always remained the Zurab he had always been, even with the people he didn’t know for a long time: moderately delicate in relationships, modest, sensitive, sincere, frank, always favorably disposed, sympathetic, and ready to help. But we also often saw his thunderous tiger face on the screen! As a political figure, Zurab Zhvania’s fate turned out tragic, but not only because of his early passing or because it is precisely at the time when his creative strength was strongly developing that his political and public career stopped – which delighted many ill-disposed people. The tragedy lied in the incompatibility that appeared between the idea and the circle of people who had to implement that idea. The eternal opposition between a desire and the reality in which this desire has to be realized. Even if he was a sharp-sighted person, he had the illusion that an individual who was renowned on the global political arena could take the responsibility of implementing the principles of democracy in Georgia, or in other words, of building a new Georgia. Many thought that this person could overcome his former self and start from scratch. It seemed that this kind of transformation shouldn’t have been impossible. But back then, the discussions about transforming from “John” to “Jack” were complete profanation. The simple logic behind the words of the person in power sounded like this: “That kind of approach was needed when I used to be “John”, but now that I have become “Jack”, we need this kind of approach.” But what could one do? The situation remained the same. Again and again, it was conformism, irresolution, hesitation between the past and the present… Disinterested pragmatism alone would have been enough to lead to the “birth” of a new man. But it didn’t happen: we didn’t get the old, we didn’t get the new, we got something in-between, an average bourgeois man. And this was the tragedy in Zurab Zhvania too: he sacrificed his energy, pathos and ethos to falsely doomed hopes. The forced steps demanded by a long-term strategy were already being implemented independently from him, and it is still the case today. That was a tragedy too. But what brings tragedy in the lives of people, if not the freedom of choice, this excessively human act, so human that it determines a human’s life. Many politicians aspire to a career peak, some of them do reach it, but even less, if they are ready, manage to say no to what they have achieved. The latter can only achieve this with the strength of inner freedom. Zurab too, when he was at his peak, conceded his position in order to freshen the political environment. This action showed what was more important to him. To borrow Max Weber’s words, he was living for politics, not off politics, not in order to make his own life more comfortable. Those who knew Zurab know only too well that he had the talent to read people, but he wasn’t omniscient, and therefore couldn’t imagine what his allies would do after he left this world. Did he make a mistake when he chose his allies? But who can predict disillusionment? Even though he had experienced his own potential, and he should have known that others couldn’t do what he could, or wouldn’t do it, or wouldn’t do it in the same way. This is precisely what happened. Recently, a close friend of his told me: “Once, he said

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vinc zurabs icnobda, misTvis utyuari iyo, rom mas hqonda adamianTa cnobis unari. magram is ar iyo gulTamxilavi, rom TvalnaTliv warmoedgina Tavisi TanamebrZolebis gadadgmuli nabijebi misi amqveynidan wasvlis Semdeg. Secda TanamebrZolTa arCevanSi? magram vis SeuZlia imedgacruebis winaswarmetyveleba? magram mas gancdili hqonda sakuTari SesaZleblobebi da unda scodnoda, rom risi gakeTebac Tavad mas SeeZlo, imas sxva ver gaakeTebda, an ar gaakeTebda, an ase ar gaakeTebda. asec moxda. amas winaT misma axlo megobarma miTxra: erTxel uTqvams, _ me var marili am qveynisa. SesaZloa, es (asec iqneboda) xumrobiT iyo naTqvami, magram amgvari ramis Tqma, garkveuli Sinagani grZnobisa da dajerebulobis gareSe SeuZlebelia. iyo marili da ganqarda marili. me amave wmida wyarodan sxva sityvebs Sevagebeb: `mraval arian Cinebul da mciredni rCeul~. saubedurod Tu kanonzomierad, swored rCeulTa xvedria tragikuli. politikuri kaci, ZiriTadad, moqmedia, magram yvela TvalsaCino politikur moRvawes aqvs Tavisi gamonaTqvami, riTac is rCeba istoriaSi. mis sityvebs Soris, romlebic xSirad warmavali interesebiT aris datvirTuli, rCeba oroide, romelic waruval mniSvnelobas ipovebs. zurab Jvanias Cveni qveynis gangebam wilad arguna yofiliyo namdvilad istoriuli frazis warmomTqmeli: `me var qarTveli da, maSasadame, var evropeli~. am formuliT gamoTqva man qarTuli identobis saukuno alternativa, qarTveli adamiani sajarod daayena am ideis winaSe, axal registrSi gauRviZa es fiqri. am lozungis avtors sruliadac ar hqonda iluzia, rom empiriul planSi am naTqvams absoluturi WeSmariteba unda gamoexata. es maSasadame perspeqtivaa, ara faqtobrivi igiveobis damadasturebeli. am lozungSi me oria, erTi _ pirovnuli, meore _ koleqtiuri, romlis saxeliT pirovnuli me laparakobs. erTi, rogorc pirovneba, aqtualurad atarebs evropas, meore _ perspeqtivaSi, Tumc sxvadasxvagvarad iswrafvis misken. es maSasadame procesis bolo etapis gamomxatvelia. manZili jer kidev gasavleli aqvs. ra xati aRiZvreba CvenSi, roca vaxsenebT am sityvas _ evropa? Zalian xSirad gvesmis sayveduri _ `nebismier civilizebul qveyanaSi...~, roca ar mogvwons is, rasac yoveldRiurad vawydebiT Cvens realobaSi _ yofasa Tu politikaSi. arc azia, arc evropa an, roca gvsurs, azia varT, roca gvsurs _ evropa? grigol orbeliani siamayiT acxadebda, me aziateci varo. am gamonaTqvams dRes bevri qarTveli ar gaiziarebs, mas ufro izidavs evropuli kultura, praqtikulad yofaSi `aziatecobas~ ganagrZobs. Cveni momavali identoba Tu dasavluraRmosavlur sinTezSia mosalodneli, zurab Jvania im mciredTagani iyo, visac SeeZlo aqtualurad etarebina

– “I am the salt of this country”.” He most probably said this jokingly, but it is impossible to say such a thing without in some way feeling and being confident in it. He was the salt of this country, and this salt turned into wind. I will quote another passage from the Holy Book: “Many are called, but few are chosen.” Unfortunately or lawfully, it is the fate of the chosen that is tragic. A political figure is quite active in general, but a distinguished political figure has his or her own famous expression, with which they are remembered in history. Among their words, which are often loaded with transient interests, some stand out and become of lasting importance. Our country’s fate allotted Zurab Zhvania to be the enunciator of a sentence of utmost historic significance: “I am Georgian, and therefore, I am European”. It is with this formula that he expressed the eternal alternative of Georgian identity, that he publically placed Georgians in front of this idea, and revived this thought in them in a new way. The author of this phrase didn’t have any illusion that these words would have described absolute empirical truth. This is a logical “therefore” perspective, not a proof of any factual situation. There are two “I” in this sentence, one is personal, and the other is a collective one, used by the personal me in the name of the collective. The first one, as an individual, does carry Europe within oneself, while the second one sees it as a perspective,

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es sinTezi. politikosebs Soris Znelad moiZebneba met-naklebad avtoritetuli saxelmwifo moRvawe, romlisTvisac sisxlxorceulia lozungi `kultura gadaarCens qveyanas~. kultura yvela sferoSi: kultura yofaSi, kultura xelovnebaSi, kultura mecnierebaSi, kultura ekonomikaSi, kultura samarTalSi, kultura politikaSi... is xedavda kulturis amgvarad ganfenisa mis saxelmwifo politikis rangSi ayvanis aucileblobas; rom danaSaulia kulturis minebeba sabazro ekonomikis talRebisTvis. saxelmwifo xelisufleba unda qomagobdes kulturas da mxolod im dReebSi ar axsendebodes, roca eleqtoratia mosazidi. visac ki ukanasknel wlebSi hqonia zurab JvaniasTan urTierToba, is gaixsenebs, rom misTvis kultura iyo namdvili mizani da ara instrumenti politikur asparezze warmatebis misaRwevad, rom misTvis saxelmwifos Seneba imavdroulad niSnavda kulturis Senebas. is iRwvoda, rom es qveyana yofiliyo ara mxolod saxelmwifo, aramed imavdroulad, rogorc germanelebi ityvian, Kulturstaat, kulturis saxelmwifo. moarulia Tqma, rom Seucvleli adamianebi ar arseboben. nuTu marTlac ar arseboben da eWvi ar unde Segveparos am moarul `WeSmaritebaSi~? yoveli adamiani, vinc unda iyos igi, sazogadoebrivi ierarqiis romel safexurzec unda idges, unikaluria, erTaderTia, ganumeorebelia. saxelmwifo moRvawes aqvs Tavisi

but strives for it in various ways. This “therefore” expresses that last stage of the process. There is still work to be done. What image comes to mind when we utter the word “Europe”? We often hear the words “In any civilized country…” when there is something we don’t like in our reality – be it in politics or everyday life. Are we neither Asia nor Europe, or are when either Asia or Europe whenever it suits us? Grigol Orbeliani used to proudly say “I am also an Asian”. Most Georgians do not share this view today, and are more attracted to European culture, though in practice, they continue living in “Asia”. If our future identity has to be apprehended in the frame of a synthesis of the East and the West, Zurab Zhvania was one of the few who could topically carry this synthesis. It is hard to find, among politicians, a more or less authoritative statesman for whom the idea that “Culture will save the world” is of vital importance. Culture in every field: culture in life, culture in art, culture in science, culture in economy, culture in justice, culture in politics… To him, spreading culture in this way was an absolutely necessary component of his state policies; he knew that it was a crime to abandon culture to the waves of market economy. State authorities should support culture, and not just mention it when they need to gather voters. Whoever knew Zurab Zhvania during his last years, will remember that culture was a real goal for him, and not a mere instrument to achieve success in the political arena; that to him, building a state meant simultaneously building a culture. He was working hard in order for our country to not only be a state, but as the Germans would say, a Kulturstaat, a state of culture.

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Canafiqri, gegmebi, xedvebi da mas imedi aqvs, rom amas yvelafers ase da amgvarad ganaxorcielebs. mis xelT aris Jami. magram misi sicocxle Sua gzaze wydeba, Jami gadis da Canafiqri araTu ase, saerTod ver xorcieldeba. Seucvleloba aris adamianSic da im JamSic, roca es adamiani moqmedebs da, garkveuli azriT, qmnis Jams (baraTaSvilis: `Jami Cemia da Jamisa me var imedi~). xelisufals yovelTvis gamouCndeba Semcvleli, magram idea, romelic man datova xorcSesasxmelad, SeiZleba Cakvdes. da modis sxva, romlisTvisac ucxoa kulturis damkvidrebis politika. magram dadgeba Jami da mainc mova, Tundac dagvianebiT, pirovneba, romelic gaiTavisebs WeSmaritebas, rom adamiani, Tavisi pirveladi mowodebiT kulturuli arsebaa da aramc da aramc politikuri. aseTi pirovneba Tavad unda iyos kulturuli adamiani am cnebis ara mxolod yofiTi, aramed siRrmiseuli, fundamenturi gagebiT, adamiani, romelic sunTqavs kulturiT da kultura sunTqavs masSi. aseTs vxedavdiT zurab Jvanias, unikalur adamians da Seucvlel xelisufals.

The saying goes that there are no people who do not change. Is that really so, should we believe in this widespread idea without a doubt? Any person, whoever he or she is, whatever height he or she holds on the social hierarchy ladder, is unique, is a one of a kind, is inimitable. Statesmen have their plans, their projects, their visions, and they hope that they will be able to make them a reality in the way they imagined. They hold the hands of time in theirs. But their life can be stopped in the middle of their path, and then time passes, and their plans do not become a reality, let alone in the way they had imagined. There is no change in a person or a time when this person is active, and in some way, creates the time (as Baratashvili put it: “The time is mine and I am her only hope!”). Authority figures will always be replaced, but the idea that they have left unfulfilled might perish. And others might come, to whom the policy of spreading culture might be completely foreign. But the time will come when someone, even if a bit late, will emerge and convey the idea that humans are, most importantly, cultural beings, and not political ones. This kind of individual should be a cultural person, and not only in an everyday sense, but in a deep, fundamental understanding – a person who breathes culture, and in whom culture thrives. This is how we saw Zurab Zhvania, a unique individual and irreplaceable leader.

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ivane amirxanaSvili / Ivane Amirkhanashvili

qrestomaTiuli don kixoti CHRESTOMATIC DON QUIXOTE - 84 -

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seTi adamianebi ise midian amqveynidan, TiTqos arc midian. rCebian sicocxleSi yofierebis arsis gamarTlebad. amitom verafriT ijereb, rom aRar arian. aryofna maTi sivrce ar aris. yofnaa maTi ganzomileba. sanam erTi adamiani mainc iarsebebs, vinc maT icnobda, manam sicocxlis rkalSi iqnebian, icocxlebs maTi sityva, saqme, saqcieli, adamianurobis samsaxurSi gaweuli amagi. erTi aseTi kaci iyo oleg goliaZe _ araCveulebrivi adamiani, Cveulebrivobis niSniT aRbeWdili moyvasi, sikeTis uangaro samsaxurisaTvis dabadebuli, don kixoturi SemarTebis romantikosi. guSindeliviT maxsovs ormocdasami wlis winaT, Cveni studentobis pirvel dReebSi, Tbilisis saxelmwifo universitetis pirveli korpusis meore sarTulze, rusTavelis kabinetis win, farTo fanjarasTan mdgari, alalad moRimari kaci, romelsac egreT wodebuli Sturmovka ecva, papiross eweoda da nacnob gamvlelebs Tavazianad esalmeboda. ar vicodiT, vin iyo, ra kaci iyo, ras saqmianobda universitetSi, magram is ki Canda, rom Sinauri iyo im wrisTvis, sadac trialebdnen: levan menabde, revaz siraZe, aleqsandre baramiZe, griver farulava, revaz baramiZe da sxvebi. Rimili, papirosi da JofreisaviT kelobiT siaruli misi portretis ganuyofel detalebad darCa mas Semdegac, rac rodesac gavicaniT da mTeli oTxi aTeuli wlis ganmavlobaSi uerTmaneTod ar gvicxovria... germaniis qalaq rostokSi dabadebuli, ruseTis qalaqebgamovlili, TbilisSi, naZaladevis ubanSi gazrdili Tavis TavSi atarebda yvelafer im saukeTesos, rac SeiZleba keTilgonierma adamianma SeiTvisos gansxvavebul sazogadoebebTan da adamianebTan urTierTobebis Sedegad. Tavidan politeqnikur universitetSi Caabara, Semdeg gadmovida universitetis filologiis fakultetze. esec raRacnairad metyveli Strixi iyo misi maZiebeli, daudgromeli xasiaTisaTvis. TiTqmis mTeli cxovreba daucxromel moZraobaSi iyo. SezRuduli SesaZleblobebis miuxedavad, saqarTvelos yvela kuTxe-kunWuli fexiT hqonda Semovlili. fexi bavSvobisas, meore klasSi, daukargavs, tramvais borblebs qveS mohyolia eqstremaluri TamaSis dros, rogorc bevr Tbilisel biWs daemarTa im dros, 40-50-ian wlebSi. Tavisi Segnebuli cxovreba Tbilisis ivane javaxiSvilis saxelobis saxelmwifo universitetSi, Zveli qarTuli literaturis kaTedraze, rusTvelologiis kabinetSi gaatara. araerTi saetapo samecniero saqmis monawile yofila Tavis ufros kolegebTan erTad. bolos sakuTari Sromebis gamoqveynebac gabeda. maRal moTxovnebs uyenebda Tavis Tavsac da sxvebsac. seriozuli Semowmebisa da redaqtirebis gareSe mcire gamokvlevasac ar dabeWdavda. Tumca TandaTan daugrovda wignebi: Sua saukuneebis literaturuli principebi qarTul mwerlobaSi (V-XVIII ss.), „vefxistyaosnis~

uch people leave this world as if they didn’t leave it. They remain in this life as justifiers of the essence of this world. This is why you cannot believe that they have left. Non-existence is not a space for them. Their dimension is

existence. Until there will be at least one person who knew them, they will remain in the circle of life, their words, their deeds, their actions, and the work they have done for humanity will live on. One such person was Oleg Goliadze – a wonderful person, a completely unpretentious friend, born to selflessly serve kindness, a romantic as bold as Don Quixote. I remember, as if it were yesterday, this man with a sincere smile, standing next to a large window in front of the Rustaveli office, on the first floor of Tbilisi State University’s first building, during our first days as students. He was wearing a large all-weather coat, smoking a cigarette, and courteously greeting the passersby he knew. We didn’t know who he was, what kind of person he was, or what he was doing at the university, but one could see that he was a good friend of the circle of people one would usually see there: Levan Menabde, Revaz Siradze, Aleksandre Baramidze, Griver Parulava, Revaz Baramidze, and others. A Smile, a cigarette, and a limping walk were always his characteristic traits, even after knowing him for more than four decades… Born in the German city of Rostock, having visited many Russian cities and grown up in Tbilisi’s Nadzaladevi neighborhood, he was conveying all the best features a sensible person can gather as a result of meeting various societies and kinds of people. He first studied at the Polytechnic University, and then moved to the University’s Philology Faculty. This was a kind of illustration of his ever-searching, lively character. His whole life, he was in perpetual movement, and he never got tired of it. Despite his disability, he had walked through all parts of Georgia by foot. He lost his foot during his childhood, when he was in second grade – a tramway rolled on it while he was playing on the streets, an occurrence that was unfortunately not rare among Tbilisian boys in the 1940-1950s. He started his professional life in Tbilisi’s Ivane Javakhishvili State University, at the Old Georgian Literature Department, in the Rustvelology Cabinet. He took part in many scientific projects with his older colleagues. In the end, he published his own works too. He had high expectations from both himself and others. He wouldn’t publish even a small research paper without seriously reexamining and editing it. Nevertheless, he gradually produced a number of books: ‘Literary principles in Georgian writing of the Middle Ages (5th-18th centuries)’, ‘Literary and theory matters in ‘The Knight in the Panther’s Skin’’, ‘How they were raising us’ (history of ethics), ‘Discussions on ethics’. He was paying great attention to scientific and literary questions about ethics. Once, he published a letter titled ‘For the literary etiquette of ‘Amirandarejanian’’. At that period, there was more free

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literaturul-Teoriuli sakiTxebi, „rogor gvizrdnen~ (yofiTi eTikis istoridan), „saubrebi etiketze“. did yuradRebas uTmobda eTikis samecnieroliteraturul sakiTxebs. erTxel aseTi werili gamoaqveyna: „amirandarejanianis~ literaturuli etiketisaTvis“. maSin iyo dro da mocaleoba. nacnobebi kiTxulobdnen erTmaneTis publikaciebs. diliT tariel Wanturia Semoxvda. misalmeba ar daemTavrebina, rom poetma leqsad hkiTxa:

time. People were reading each other’s publications. In the morning, he bumped into Tariel Chanturia. He didn’t have the time to finish greeting him, as the poet asked him, in verse: “You, composing tales about Goliath, Do you drink vodka, Goliadze?” Of course he was drinking. For 40 years, to borrow François Villon’s words, “He was drinking wine, drinking vodka, drinking everything, except for water”. He was a great appraiser of human relationships.

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araks rom Txzav goliaTze, arays Tu svam, goliaZe? svamda, rogor as svamda. ormoci wlis ganmavlobaSi fransua viionisa ar iyos, „Rvinosac svamda, araysac svamda, yvelafers svamda, wylis gamoklebiT“. inaxiT jdoma uyvarda. adamianuri urTierTobebis mexotbe iyo. hyavda ucvleli da Zvirfasi meinaxeni: Teimuraz maRlaferiZe da iura jafariZe, avTo gafrindaSvili da mixa arabuli, Tamaz fofxaZe da denis dgebuaZe, SoTa leJava da Salva wiklauri, vaxuSti koteteiSvili da Tamaz Cxenkeli. maT Soris, Cvenc, studentebi, igive „paWanikebi“. Cven mas belads veZaxdiT. erTxel uCas daubara, rom movkvdebi, damwviT da mtkvris xeobaSi ferflad mimomabnieTo. es metafora advili gasagebi iyo _ amiTac sicocxlis siyvaruls gamoxatavda, sikvdilisagan gaqcevis survils. sul garboda. sul sadRac miiswrafoda. sufridanac garboda. ipareboda, Tvals ver Seaswrebdi. anarqias ver itanda. generlis Sviloba amaSic etyoboda. mama aviaciis generali iyo stalinis dros. olegs axloblebi alikas eZaxdnen. alika goliaZe iyo SinaurobaSi. Tamaz tyemalaZem „alkogoliaZe~ daarqva. kalamburian Tikuns amarTlebda da arc amarTlebda, moswonda da arc moswonda manam, sanam erT mSvenier dRes lamanCeli alonso kixanasaviT ar Tqva _ „ar var. alkogoliaZe!~ im dRidan Seicvala, 180 gradusiT Semoabruna cxovrebis gza. veRar gaego, ratom unda daelia, rodesac amdeni safiqrali iyo amqveynad. veRar gaego, ratom svamdnen kacebi Rvinos da ratom klavdnen qarTvelebi sufrasTan dros. es iyo gamonaTeba, donkixoturi gamofxizleba, da iyo am gardasvlaSi raRacnairi qrestomaTia _ wminda swavleba.

He had the same loyal table companions: Teimuraz Maghlaperidze and Iura Japaridze, Avto Gaprindashvili and Mikha Arabuli, Tamaz Popkhadze and Denis Dgebuadze, Shota Lezhava and Shalva Tsiklauri, Vakhushti Kotetishvili and Tamaz Chkhenkeli. And there was also us, students, or, as he called us, “the little ones”. We used to call him “chief”. Once, he told Ucha that when he would die, we should burn his body and spread his ashes in the Mtkvari Valley. This metaphor was easy to understand – with this too, he was expressing a love of life, and his wish to escape death. He was always running. He was always going somewhere. He was also running from supras (traditional feasts). He was stealthily going away, you couldn’t even notice. He didn’t stand anarchy – you could see that he was the son of a general. His father was an aviation general during Stalin’s rule. His close friends called Oleg “Alika”. He was Alika Goliadze to his close circle. Tamaz Tkemaladze called him “Alcoholiadze”. He was sometimes justifying this play on words, and sometimes he wasn’t – he sometimes liked it, and he sometimes didn’t, until one day, like Alonso Quijano de la Mancha, he said – “I am not Alcoholiadze!”. From that day, he changed completely, and turned his habits upside down. He couldn’t understand why he should drink when there is so much to think about in this world. He couldn’t understand how people could drink wine and why Georgians were losing time at supras. This was an illumination, a donquichottesque awakening, and there was something with the character of chrestomathy in this – something related to sacred learning.

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vladimer gucaevi:

rom ara fexburTeli, viqnebodi...

Vladimer Gutsaev:

IF I HADN’T BEEN A FOOTBALLER, I WOULD’VE BEEN...

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qarTuli fexburTis yvela drois erT-erTi saukeTeso garemarbi, saqarTvelos sportis raindis wodebis da Rirsebis ordenis mflobeli, warsulSi parlamentari da amJamad sportuli gadacemis wamyvani sazogadoebriv televiziaSi _ vladimer gucaevi safexburTo karierisa da ganvlili cxovrebis saintereso detalebis Sesaxeb gvesaubreba... marTali giTxraT, parlamentis periods kargad ver vixseneb, rTuli dro iyo CemTvis... sul sxva rame megona da sxva ram yofila... me _ gamiWirda... bunebiT gaxsnili adamiani var, romelsac SeuZlia imegobros, bolomde daixarjos, uRalatod... iq ki rac vnaxe _ CemTvis miuRebeli aRmoCnda... oTx welze meti davyavi da vTvli, rom es CemTvis dakarguli wlebia... _ amJamad axalgazrdebTan xarT... ra Seicvala? _ ra Tqma unda, bevri ram.... roca axalgazrda xar, sul sxvanairad gesmis, sxvanairad aRiqvam samyaros, cxovrebis SemoTavazebebs, konkretul movlenebs... adamianebs... me ukve asakSi var da sxvagvarad mesmis axla, vcdilob

One of the best wingers of Georgian football, the recipient of the Order of Honorable Knight of Georgian Sports, a former member of the Parliament, and now the anchor of a sport show on the Public Broadcaster – we had the chance to discuss his football career and interesting life details with Vladimer Gutsaev himself… To tell you the truth, I don’t have a good memory of my Parliament period. It was a difficult time for me… It turned out to be completely different than what I expected… At least for me – it was difficult… I am an open person by nature, who can be friendly, give one’s all, and always remain loyal… And what I have seen there was unacceptable to me… I spent more than four years there, and I consider them as lost years… – You are currently working with young players… What is different now? – Many things, of course… When you are young, you understand things and see the world, what it has to offer, or any specific events differently… People too… I have already become old, and I see all this from another perspective, I always try to take the side of the youth

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axalgazrdebis mxares vidge, vidre Cemi azri movaxvio... Cemi ori Svili 25-30 wlisebi arian da sul minda gavugo... ar SevzRudo... unaklo aravinaa... magram egeni sul sxvagvarad azrovneben... sxvanairad esmiT... maxsovs, roca Cemma erT-erTma Svilma Seqspiri waikiTxa, miTxra, rom romeosa da julietas ver gaugo... maT sxvanairad esmiT yvelaferi, siyvarulic ki...

instead of dictating my will to them… My two children are 25-30 years old, and I always want to understand them… To not restrain them… Nobody’s perfect… But they think in a completely different way… They understand things differently… I remember, when one of my children read Shakespeare, he told me that he didn’t understand why Romeo and Juliet behaved the way they did… They understand everything differently, even love… – What do you like in them? – Everything, their freedom, pragmatism, individualism…

_ ra mogwonT maTSi? _ yvelaferi momwons, Tavisufleba, pragmatizmi, individualizmi... _ Tqven Taobas es ar hqonda? Tundac Seqspiriseuli siyvaruli? _ siyvaruli rom icodes vinmem ra aris da rogoria... yvelas Taviseburad esmis, Taviseburad aRiqvams... me gvian, 36 wlis davojaxdi... CemTvis yovelTvis pirvel adgilze fexburTi iyo... imdenad viyavi fexburTiT dakavebuli,

– Your generation didn’t have all that? At least Shakespearean love? – If anyone knew what love is and how it works… Everybody sees and perceives it in their own way… I married late – I was 36 years old… Football was always the most important thing for me... I was so busy with football that I never thought about something else… Football was both my family and my love…

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rom ar mifiqria sxva danarCenze... Cemi ojaxic da siyvarulic fexburTs ukavSirdeboda... _ da ra mogcaT fexburTma? _ amas ase martivad ver vityvi... maxsovs, erTxel, roca universitetSi vswavlobdi (jer ekonomikurze, mere iuridiulze), leqciidan gamovedi da derefanSi mdgari profesor-maswavleblebi gamomesaubrnen, maTTan idga erTi cnobili mwerali (ar minda saxeli da gvari vTqva), mivedi, yvelas mivesalme, gamacnes es mwerali... man ki Semxeda da CemTvis moulodnelad aseTi ram ganacxada: _ ai, ho amdeni ram davwere, ramdeni ram Sevqmeni da yvelafers gavcvlidi vovasnairad rom meTamaSa dinamoSio... ar velodi da ise gamikvirda da gamixarda, rom cota SeviSmuSne... maSin es komplimentad miviRe, axla am gadasaxedidan ufro damafiqrebelia, neta marTla gavamarTle es sityvebi? marTla sul sxva ramea fexburTi, maSindeli Tbilisis dinamo ki yvelas saocnebo klubi iyo. roca gundurad varskvlavTcvenaa, ar gaqvs ufleba iyo susti, magari unda iyo Sens saqmeSi _ magari! jer erTi, stadionze rom 100000 mayurebelia da kidev milionebi televizorSi giyureben da Sen maT axareb _ ai, esaa yvelaze didi sixaruli SenTvis, magaze didi bedniereba ar arsebobs! _ radgan gaxarebaze vsaubrobT, 13 maiss gverds ver avuvliT... ra mogcaT am TamaSma, garda sixarulisa da popularobisa? _ Cven patara eri varT msoflios erT pawawina kuTxeSi da roca amxela gamarjvebas moipoveb, roca adamianebs survils uCen rukas daxedon, Tu saidan modis es uzarmazari energia da temperamenti, _ Zalian didi ramea... da roca Seni eri giyurebs _ saocari siamayea! iq gancdili sixaruli da gamarjveba gagviasmagda, roca TbilisSi CamovediT da xalxi dagvxvda, rogori gaxarebuli, rogori erTiani (raRac TvalsazrisiT), rogori Tvalcremliani, magram bednieri, _ es kidev sxva sixarulia, romelic mTeli cxovreba mogyveba da gzas giCvenebs... _ da am 40 wlis ganmavlobaSi kidev erTxel ratom ver moxerxda, aseTi zRva emociis miniWeba qarTveli mayureblisTvis? _ aseTi Tasi ukve movigeT! meti aRar iqneba, ise, rogorc aRar iqneba sabWoTa kavSiri! ssrk arasdros miyvarda! Cemi donis fexburTelebma marTla milionebi iSoves... da es Cven ar gvqonda. Cven xalxis siyvarulic gvyofnida da saqme, romelic siamovnebas gvaniWebda... rom vusmen da vuyureb _ dRes ra honorarebze saubroben, xandaxan imasac vfiqrob, rom tyuilad miTamaSia fexburTi... magram sxva mxarecaa... rom gadaxedav warsuls

– And what did football give you? – I couldn’t explain that easily… I remember that when I was studying at the University (first Economics, then Law), I came out of the lecture and some professors who were standing in the hallway started talking to me. A famous writer was with them (I will refrain from saying his name), and when I greeted the professors, they got me acquainted with him… After looking at me, he suddenly said the following: “I wrote so many books, created so many things, yet I would exchange all of it to play like Vova at Dinamo Tbilisi…” I was not expecting it, and was so surprised and happy that it made me a bit tense… At that time, I took it as a compliment, but today, I see it more as something to think about – did I really deserve those words…? Football is something very special, and the Dinamo Tbilisi of the time was the club everyone was dreaming about. It was a constellation of stars, you couldn’t allow yourself to play bad, you had to be good at what you did! In the first place, when there are 100000 persons watching you from the stadium and millions more from their TV stations, and that you make them happy – there is no greater happiness than that! – As we are talking about happiness, we cannot avoid the 13th of May… What did this game bring to you, apart from happiness and popularity? – We are a small nation in a small corner of this world, and when you achieve such success, when you make people want to look at a map to find from where such a great energy and temperament come from – it is a great feeling… And when your own nation is watching you – it brings you so much pride! The happiness we felt after winning the game got 100 times bigger when we arrived in Tbilisi and were met by so joyful supporters, with tears in their eyes, but happy – this is a different kind of happiness, one that follows you for your whole life, and shows you the way…

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_ xalxis siyvaruli yvelafers wonis, axlac rom gavdivar qalaqSi _ mcnoben, mexvevian, sixarulisgan tirian da saswaulia, dRemde im legendarul TamaSs ixseneben... vfiqrob Rirda amad cxovreba! iciT ra aris mTavari? mayurebeli, ovacia! da es Cems Taobas uxvad hqonda! roca gasaxdelidan moedanze gadixar pirveli, rac TavSi mogdis _ aris Tu ara xalxi?! tribuna savsea?! Sen magaTTvis unda iTamaSo, rom sazRaurisiyvaruli da aRiareba miiRo! es erTgvari ukukavSiria da pirdapirproporciuli svlaa gamarjvebisken! umayureblod TamaSi, ver warmoidgenT, rogori stresia fexburTelisTvis... roca xalxi ar eswreba, da tribunebis xmauri ar gesmis, Zalian Znelia... pirvelad SeiZleba iTamaSo, meored, mesamed... ranairi rangis TamaSic ar unda iyos, ggonia, rom amxanagurs TamaSob ubralod, Zaldautaneblad... fexburTels ver gadaakeTeb! fexburTels haeriviT unda emocia, sWirdeba gulSematkivari, kargad unda iTamaSo, rom mayurebelma miiRos siamovneba, Sen ki udidesi sixaruli da siamaye, rom maTTvis xar, maTTvis TamaSob!

– And during these 40 years, why wasn’t it possible to provide this kind of emotion once again to the Georgian public? – We have already won that cup! There won’t be more, just like there won’t be any more Soviet Union! I never liked the USSR! – Footballers of my caliber have become millionaires… And we didn’t have that. We didn’t need more than the love we were receiving from people and our job, which was providing us a lot of joy… When I listen and watch the wages footballers receive today, I sometimes even think that I have played football for nothing… But there is another side to all this… When you look at the past – people’s love outweighs everything. Even today, when I go out in the city, people recognize me, hug me, cry from happiness; it is a miracle, to this day, they remember that legendary game… I think it was worth it! You know what is the most important? Spectators, ovations! And my generation had plenty! When you go out of the locker room, the first thing you think about is whether there will be spectators! Are the stands full?! You have to play with them, so you receive something in return – love and recognition! This is a kind of mutual relationship, and a common path to victory! You cannot imagine how stressful it is for a footballer to

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_ fexburTeli rom ara, vin iqnebodiT? _ ar vici... magaze ar mifiqria. albaT, sportsmeni viqnebodi... me rusul skolaSi vswavlobdi, `naxalovkaSi~, daaxloebiT me-4 me-5 klasSi viyavi, fizkulturis maswavlebeli, nikolai nikolaeviCi (axlac maxsovs), meubneboda: ,,wamodi vova, migiyvan `logkaia atletikaze~, sprinters gagxdio... magram me fexburTi mindoda, sul fexburTze vfiqrobdi, ezoSic kargad vTamaSobdi, magram mogexsenebaT, fexburTi quCidan ar gamova. me gvian mivedi, ase 10-11 wlis viyavi roca ubanSi Tqves _ dinamos stadionze `dinamos skola~ ixsnebao da karg moTamaSeebs arCeveno da Cvenc meti ra gvindoda _ ubnidan 7-8 biWi, vinc kargad vTamaSobdiT, mivediT. ai, iq axla manqanebs aCereben da gaafuWes, adre magari mindori iyo, sadac saukeTeso fexburTelebi gaizardnen, igive kaxi asaTiani, biWiko WeliZe... mogvianebiT mec da Cemi Taobac... axla yvelaferi sxvagvaradaa, Tu Sen niWieri xar, mizani gaqvs da ar zarmacob-yvelafers miaRwev, yvela kari Riaa, dRes eZeben niWier fexburTelebs, Cems Taobas ufro Caketil, TiTqos marwuxebSi mouwia yofnac, brZolac da TamaSic. hoda mivediT ubnis bavSvebi, erTmaneTSi gvaTamaSes da amirCies... udidesma mwvrTnelma da sportsmenma grigol gaguam amirCia, iciT es ra iyo CemTvis _ cis gaxsna! fexburTelis erT-erTi Tvisebaa, rom motyueba play without spectators… When there are no people attending and you hear no sounds from the stands, it is very difficult… You can play once, twice, three times… The importance of the match does not matter, you will still think that you are playing a friendly game, and not give your all… You cannot produce a footballer! Footballers need emotion like we need air to breathe, they need supporters, and they need to play well for supporters to get pleasure, and for themselves to get great happiness and pride, because you are there for them, you are playing for them! – What would you have been, if not a footballer? – I don’t know… I never thought about that. I would probably have been a sportsman… I was in a Russian school, in the Nakhalovka neighborhood; I was in the fourth or fifth grade when my sports teacher Nikolai Nikolaevich (I can still remember it) told me: “Come with me, Vova, I will make you start athletics, I will make a sprinter out of you… But I wanted to play football, I was always thinking about football, I was playing quite well in my yard too, but as you know, you cannot become a footballer on the streets. I started quite late, I was about 10-11 years old when we learned that the ‘Dinamo Football School’ was opening at the Dinamo Stadium, and that they were looking for good players. We didn’t need to learn more, and 7-8 boys from our neighborhood, those who played well, directly went to the stadium. Now, they are parking cars there, it used to be

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4 (22) 2020

unda icode da iyo sxarti, zustadac es moewona CemSi, magrad davrbodi... gvari rom mkiTxa, gadairia _ meore zaur kaloevs gavzrdio da daminiSna varjiSebi yovel diliT 9 saaTze (skolaSi meore cvla viyavi), Cems ubanSic xma gamivarda, rogorc saukeTesos da mogvianebiT ezos biWebi Cems TamaSebs ar tovebdnen stadionze, mudmivad eswrebodnen da mgulSematkivrobdnen... ai, aseTi iyo ezo, ubani, Zveli Tbilisi... _ axla ra aklia Tbiliss? _ eh, imdeni ram... pirvel rigSi urTierToba, zrdiloba, urTierTpativiscema... gamovdiodiT, vTamaSobdiT, vigebdiT Tu vagebdiT erTmaneTi gviyvarda. maSin bevrs ar hqonda televizori da roca mamaCemma moitana mTeli ubani CvenTan ijda... maSinac ki, roca reportaJi radioSi gadioda _ Sua oTaxSi gvedga, arc Wama gvaxsovda, arc sma, mTeli ezo _ didian patarianad erTad visxediT da vusmendiT, vusmendiT da vocnebobdiT... _ Tqven Tu aisruleT ocnebebi? _ Tqven warmoidgineT – ki! pirveli, rom gavxdi fexburTeli da meore, Tbilisis dinamoSi rom movxvdi... im dros Tbilisis dinamo Zalian magari gundi iyo, magram Cven ar gvqonda reklama, Cvens warmatebebs ar amxeldnen evropaSi, Cvenze aravin ar laparakobda da es maSindel

a great football field, where some of the best players mastered their craft – Kakhi Asatiani, Bichiko Chelidze… And later on, myself and my generation. Now, everything changed, if you are talented, if you have a goal and aren’t acting lazy about it, you can reach anything, every door is open to you… Today, they are scouting for talented footballers automatically, but my generation had to evolve, struggle, and play in a more difficult environment. So us neighborhood boys went to the stadium, they made us play against one another, and they selected me… The great coach and sportsman Grigol Gagua chose me, that meant the world to me! A footballer has to be agile and be able to dribble – and that’s what he liked in me, I was running very fast… When he asked me my last name, he was astonished – he said that he would raise another Zaur Kaloev, and he assigned me to a daily training at nine in the morning (I used to go to the second shift at school). I also acquired the reputation of being the best player of my neighborhood, and the boys from my yard were always at the stadium, watching and supporting me… This was my yard, neighborhood, and old Tbilisi… – What is Tbilisi lacking today? – Oh, so many things… First of all, relationships, politeness, mutual respect… We were coming to the stadium, playing, and we loved each other whether we were winning or losing. At the time, there were not many people who had a TV station, and when my father brought one at home, the whole neighborhood was sitting in front of it… Even when we were listening to the matches on the radio, we would never think about eating or drinking, the whole yard, children and adults, were sitting together and listening, listening and yearning… – Did your wishes come true? – They did! First of all, I became a footballer, and secondly, I played for Dinamo Tbilisi… At that time, Dinamo Tbilisi was a great team, but we didn’t have any advertisements, our successes were not known in

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4 (22) 2020

sabWoTa sivrceSi moTamaSe sportsmenebis, upirvelesad ki qarTveli fexburTelebis, didi gulistkivili iyo... aris aseTi dauwereli ram _ yvela fexburTelis sanukvari ocnebaa madridis realSi TamaSi... ra gundSic ar unda iyo _ manCester iunaiTedSi, barselonaSi Tu sxvagan fexburTelis karieris mwvervalad madridis reali iTvleba! warmoidgineT, 1981 welia, me dampatiJes am gundSi, ar miTxovia ise, an ras gavbedavdi?! da Tavad mimiwvies...

Europe, nobody was talking about us, and this was a great grief for the sportsmen playing in the Soviet Union, and in the first place, for Georgian footballers… There is a saying that the most heartfelt desire of every footballer is to play for Real Madrid… Whatever team you are playing for – be it Manchester United, Barcelona, or another one, Real Madrid is considered to be the pinnacle of a footballer’s career! And just imagine, we are in 1981, and they invited me to play for this club, without me even asking – how would I even have dared?! They invited me by themselves…

_ ar waxvediT? _ ras ambobT?! komunistebis dros magaze fiqric ki danaSaulad iTvleboda, xmamaRla rom geTqva, dagiWerdnen... warmogidgeniaT?! _ iq rom meTamaSa axla sad viqnebodi... iq sul sxvanairadaa yvelaferi, sul rom 2 TamaSi iTamaSo _ evropa giyurebs, _ ukve Zalian didi saxeli gaqvs! bevri saxeli daikarga, bevri niWieri fexburTeli. ramdenjer yofila, erTi moTamaSe aRuzevebiaT, yvela mis warmatebebze saubrobda, am dros me da daTo yifiani vmjdarvarT, erTad gviyurebia maTi TamaSisTvis da gagvcinebia... maSin marto qarTvelebi ki ara mTels sabWoTa sivrceSi iyvnen daCagruli sportsmenebi...

– You didn’t go? – What are you saying?! During the communist rule, even thinking about it would have been a crime, if I had talked about it openly, they would have arrested me… Can you imagine?! – Where would I be if I had played there… Everything is different there, even if you play only two matches – Europe is watching you, you are already famous! Many talented footballers didn’t see the light because of that. There were many times when we heard people praise footballers, not stop talking about them, and then, when Dato Kipiani and myself would sit and watch their game, we would laugh about it… It was not only in Georgia, there were neglected sportsmen everywhere in the Soviet Union.

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4 (22) 2020

_ dRevandel qarTvel fexburTelebze ras ityviT,,, _ nu fexburTeli rom gaizardo, Cempionati unda gqondes, Sida Cempionati, erTmaneTTan unda moTelon moTamaSeebma, praqtika ar aqvT... Zalian Zneli asaxsnelia... Tu ginda fexburTeli gazardo _ sul unda aTamaSo Zlier mowinaaRmdegesTan, sul. me, 12-13 wlidan veTamaSebodi ssrk-s yvelaze magar moTamaSeebs mozardebSi, ase izrdebi fizikuradac da klasiTac! axla amis saSualeba ar aris, igive saCxeris gundi unda eTamaSebodes qobuleTis gunds, goreli fexburTeli quTaisels... es sul unda iyos, es ar unda gaCerdes da am paeqrobaSi gamoizrdeba kargi fexburTelic. dRes es ar aris, yvelaferi finansebTan midis, razec guli mwydeba... am bolo TamaSebs rom vuyureb, Cveni nakrebi TiTqos axal ciklSi CaerTo, axali sunTqva aiRo, ukeTesoba SesamCnevia... warmatebebi minda vusurvo da bednieri mayurebeli, radgan gulSematkivari qmnis foras momavali gamarjvebisTvis! axalgazrdebs ki vurCev _ ar danebdnen!

– What can you tell us about the current situation in Georgian football? – To become a good footballer, you have to have a good league, a national league, teams need to evolve by playing against other good teams, but unfortunately, they are not getting good practice… This is very difficult to explain… If you want to raise a good footballer, you need to always make them play against strong opponents, always. I used to play against the best young players of the USSR since I was 12-13 years old, this is how you grow, both physically and technically! Now that this is not possible anymore, the team from Sachkhere has to play against that of Kobuleti, footballers from Guria against those of Kutaisi… This should continue, it should never stop, and from these contests, good footballers will also emerge. Today, it’s different, everything is about finances, and it is very regrettable… Looking at the last matches from our national team, it seems the boys have entered a new cycle, you can really feel some progress… I would like to wish them a lot of success and happy spectators, because the latter are those who increase the odds of future successes! And to the young players, I would like to say – never give up!

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