Cristian Lascu – Nu exist\ un raport just între cererea turistic\ [i oferta turistic\ /

CristianLascu Interviu Interview Nu exist\ un raport just între cererea turistic\ [i oferta turistic\

V-a]i întors de câteva zile dintr-o c\l\torie unde a]i fost conectat cu „lumea normal\", cum a]i numit-o acum câ]iva ani într-un interviu. Care a fost scopul c\l\toriei?

A fost, pur [i simplu, o c\l\torie de pl\cere. Un bun prieten, care are o barc\ cu pânze pe care o ]ine în Insulele Canare, în La Gomera, mi-a spus – vino, te a[tept, s\ stam la pove[ti. {i am petrecut 12 zile minunate, cu înot în ocean, diminea]a, cu ture prin mun]ii aceia vulcanici, pr\p\stio[i. Am fost impresionat, din nou, de cât de civilizat era totul, de cât de bine era organizat traficul, cur\]enia… [i, bineîn]eles, m-am gândit cu nostalgie la ]\ri[oara mea [i m-am întrebat „la noi de ce nu se poate?!”. „{i-am putea [i nu se poate”, vorba cântecului. Aceast\ stare care este aiurit\ [i tulbure de la nivel politic, nu intru în am\nunte, m-a prins prost [i m-am gândit pe ce mâini a înc\put ]ara… Batem toat\ ziua apa în piu\ [i nu progres\m cu nimic. Nu se întâmpl\ nimic semnificativ nici în educa]ie, nici în s\n\tate [i nici în mediu, iar asta m\ doare cel mai tare. Numai ve[ti proaste. Nu rezolv\m cu p\durile, nu rezolv\m cu biodiversitatea… Sunt foarte trist pentru c\ un proiect în care am fost implicat trup [i suflet, ca redactor [ef, 12 ani, revista National Geographic, tocmai a ie[it de pe pia]\, din cauza unui management defectuos, nu din cauz\ c\ nu ar avea iubitori, ca s\ dau o replic\ celor care spun c\ printul a murit! O prostie.

Parcul Natural V\c\re[ti, un alt proiect drag pe care l-am condus al\turi de o echip\ pasionat\ [i pe care l-am administrat cu mijloace modeste, dar cu rezultate remarcabile, s-a dus [i el pe apa sâmbetei. Sunt semne îngrijor\toare. Apar ni[te bani, care oricum sunt pu]ini [i nu ajung decât pentru salarii, [i nu se întrevede niciun progres. Sper ca cel pu]in o parte din vechea echip\, care s-a ocupat de parc, s\ poat\ func]iona în noua formul\ de management, dar sunt pesimist. Semnele sunt proaste. Îmi pare r\u pentru c\ trebuie s\ spun toate aceste lucruri, dar ele trebuie s\ fie auzite!

Vestea este cât se poate de proast\, National Geographic a tras obloanele în România. A fost copilul dvs. de suflet. Exist\ vreun alt proiect care s\-i ]in\ locul?

Nu, din p\cate. Singura revist\ de informa]ie care mai rezist\, [i care e [i cea mai veche, este revista {tiin]\ [i tehnic\, dar ea nu acoper\ plaja de public a revistei National Geographic. Ea era mai cu „vino-ncoace”, prin calitatea excep]ional\ a ilustra]iei. Fotografiile National Geographic au constituit, zeci de ani, un standard de calitate în fotojurnalism. {i, odat\ cu National Geographic a disp\rut [i Traveler.

Da]i-ne mai multe date despre Parcul V\c\re[ti. Ce se întâmpl\ cu el?

P\i, ce s\ se întâmple? Dup\ patru ani de eforturi insistente ale unei mici echipe formate din patru persoane, ca s\ fiu exact, la care s-au mai al\turat ulterior câ]iva pasiona]i [i dedica]i, am reu[it s\ învingem opozi]ia multora, inclusiv a unor institu]ii de mediu. Nu are rost s\ intru în am\nunte, s\ v\ spun cum mam luptat ca s\-i convingem. {i, în 2016, în sfâr[it, într-o conjunctur\ favorabil\, a ie[it o hot\râre de guvern prin care Parcul Natural V\c\re[ti a fost oficializat – a devenit arie protejat\ de interes na]ional, a devenit parc natural, aten]ie, nu parc na]ional, s\ nu facem confuzii. La un an de la acest eveniment, Ministerul Mediului a scos la licita]ie administrarea parcului, iar echipa condus\ de mine a ob]inut administrarea. Din acel moment, cu mijloace care au constat exclusiv din sponsoriz\ri, f\r\ nicio sus]inere din partea autorit\]ilor, am demarat o serie de activit\]i cu rezultate vizibile. S-au amenajat poteci, s-au f\cut marcaje, au fost afi[ate panouri de informare [tiin]ific\, sau f\cut foi[oare de observa]ie de unde s\ te ui]i cu binoclul [i, mai ales, am f\cut educa]ie cu copiii. Am ]inut pân\ la un moment dat o eviden]\, 7000 de copii au venit s\ viziteze parcul, în grupuri, clase întregi conduse de profesori. Au venit studen]i, care [i-au f\cut acolo lucr\rile de diplom\, veneau oameni care f\ceau jogging… era un loc de recreere [i educa]ie. Situa]ia nu putea s\ r\mân\ a[a, sponsoriz\rile se limitau la 20/30 de mii de euro [i nu puteam face foarte multe lucruri. Am avut un sediu într-un bloc înalt pe malul lacului de unde aveam observa]ie foarte bun\. Aveam în echip\ [i rangeri care patrulau [i care au prins braconieri – erau pe[ti incredibili de mari, am avut chiar o captur\ de 11 kilograme [i ceva, o [tiuc\ de un metru [i 16 centimetri. Nu e poveste pesc\reasc\! {i, desigur, ace[ti pe[ti ar fi trebuit s\ fie mânca]i de vidrele de acolo, de vulpile de acolo [i de celelalte animale s\lbatice. Braconierii veneau la pescuit noaptea, cu curent electric, [i au fost probleme. Uneori eram sprijini]i de jandarmi,

dar nu a existat o baz\ legal\ pentru ca ace[tia s\ poat\ interveni în astfel de situa]ii. Au existat [i întâmpl\ri hilare, au venit poli]i[tii [i au sanc]ionat pescarii pentru consum de alcool în spa]iul public, nu pentru braconaj.

E dezolant ce s-a întâmplat acolo. Am avut de-a face cu acte de vandalism, inclusiv incendieri de vegeta]ie. A fost incendiat stuful [i sunt dovezi c\ focul a fost pus inten]ionat.

Din acest motiv, parcul avea nevoie de sus]inerea unei institu]ii, iar cea mai potrivit\ pentru a face acest lucru era Prim\ria General\. {i-a asumat, recent, administrarea parcului [i, în virtutea acestui fapt, a format o structur\ care se nume[te Administra]ia Parcului Natural V\c\re[ti, cu o schem\ de personal generoas\. Chiar m\ întreb, ce vor face to]i ace[ti oameni? Marele meu semn de întrebare este dac\ în aceast\ nou\ administra]ie î[i vor g\si locul [i câ]iva membri din Asocia]ia Parcul Natural V\c\re[ti, cea care, din 2012, a f\cut eforturi s\ administreze parcul. Prin articolul pe care l-am publicat în National Geographic, împreun\ cu fotograful Helmut Ignat, numit „Delta dintre blocuri", am declan[at interesul public pentru aceast\ mic\ delt\.

There is no balance between the touristic demand and the touristic supply

You returned a few days ago from a trip to the “normal world”, as you called it a few years ago in an interview. What was the purpose of your trip?

It was simply a pleasure trip. A good friend of mine who has a sailboat he keeps in the Canary Islands (in Gomera) told me – come, let’s hang out and catch up. So we spent twelve wonderful days, in the mornings we swam in the ocean, we did laps in those steep volcanic mountains. I was once again impressed by the level of civilization, by how well traffic is organized, by the cleanliness… Of course, I was nostalgic, thinking about my country and asking myself – why can’t we do it like them? “We could, but it’s not possible”, as the song says. This awkward, troubled state, which goes all the way to the political level, caught me at a bad time, and I thought about the hands this country has fallen into… We keep harping on about everything, and we aren’t progressing in any fields. There is nothing significant happening in the fields of education, health, environment, either, and this hurts me the most. Only bad news. We’re not fixing the problems we have with our forests, the biodiversity… I’m very sad because a project I put my heart and soul into as editor-in-chief for twelve years, the National Geographic magazine, has just left the market, due to bad management – not because it didn’t have fans, to answer those who say print is dead! Bullshit. The V\c\re[ti Natural Park, another project dear to me, which I led together with a passionate team and with modest financial means – but with outstanding results – has also gone down the drain. These are signs of concern. Some money comes by – at any rate a very small amount, which only covers the salaries – but there’s no progress in sight. I hope at least part of the old team that looked after the Park will remain in the new formula, but I’m doubtful. The signs are bad. I’m sorry to have to say these things, but they must be heard!

Very bad news – National Geographic has left the Romanian market. This project was dearest to you. Is there anything else on the market that could fill the void?

Unfortunately not. The only scientific magazine that keeps on living is the Science and Technology magazine, but it doesn’t cover the segment that National Geographic covered. The latter had a certain something, thanks to the exceptional illustrations. For ten years, the photographs in National Geographic have set the gold standard in photojournalism. And together with National Geographic, Traveler has also left the market.

Give us more details about the situation of V\c\re[ti Park. What’s happening?

What should be happening? After four years of concentrated efforts from a small team composed of four people, to be exact, who were later joined by a few passionate and dedicated people, we succeeded to overcome the obstacles put in our way by many, including some environmental institutions. I won’t go into the details of how we fought to convince them. Eventually, thanks to a favorable context, a government decision came, which officially made the V\c\re[ti National Park a protected area of national interest – not a na-

Acum, am emo]ii, pentru c\ [ti]i cum se întâmpl\ cu ocuparea posturilor la bugetari…

Fotogeografica, fotografia de natur\, proiectul fotografic pe care-l coordona]i, a împlinit 25 de ani.Povesti]i-ne despre el.

O, da! Timpul zboar\. Eu sunt doar mâna de ajutor pe care am dat-o prietenului meu Paul Borda[, [eful Casei Studen]ilor. El face s\ mearg\ lucrurile! În primii 3/4 ani de existen]\ a Fotogeografica nu am fost implicat. Apoi, în calitatea mea de redactor [ef la National Geografic, am sprijinit proiectul [i am fost sprijinit, la rândul meu, de Fotogeografica, pentru c\ laurea]ii au devenit colaboratori ai revistei. To]i sunt fotografi foarte talenta]i, cum a fost, de exemplu, Silviu Matei, care s-a specializat pe faun\ s\lbatic\. În felul acesta am avut fotografii de nivelul National Geographic.

A ap\rut o infla]ie de fotografi, tehnica actual\ permite trucajul facil. Cum vede]i dvs. c\ trebuie s\ fie fotografia de natur\? Care sunt coordonatele în care ar trebui ea s\ r\mån\?

A]i r\spuns singur la întrebare, ar trebui s\ r\mân\ în coordonatele bunului sim]! Autenticitate, autenticitate, autenticitate! Au fost fotografi care au ob]inut premii cu apusuri de soare cu animale împ\iate pe care le-au a[ezat în pozi]ii plauzibile. Cunosc un asemenea precedent. Adev\ra]ii fotografi de natur\ sunt în stare s\-[i petreac\ zile întregi la pând\, cu buruienile în cap, pentru a fi camufla]i. Ei sunt cei care surprind autenticitatea naturii. Acest tip de fotografie este un mijloc de pledoarie pentru conservarea naturii. V\ dau un simplu exemplu. Pentru c\ l-am amintit pe Silviu Matei, el a stat singur într-un copac, o s\pt\mân\ întreag\, [i a reu[it s\ surprind\ ni[te imagini superbe cu ni[te râ[i. Eu am pus aceste fotografii lâng\ unele f\cute de o firm\ de vân\toare care îndemna vân\torii din Germania s\ vin\ s\ împu[te râ[ii României. {i, pentru a fi mai conving\tori, într-una din poze vân\torii au pus vreo [ase cadavre însângerate de râ[i. A fost zguduitor, pentru c\ râsul este „Pantera Carpa]ilor” no[tri [i nu sunt atât de numero[i încât s\ ne permitem s\-i vân\m. Speciali[tii în conservare au alc\tuit un dosar care con]inea [i acele fotografii, dosar pe care l-am dus cu mâna mea [i l-am pus pe masa Ministrului Mediului, care a reac]ionat. {i, dup\ câteva zile, a emis un comunicat prin care anun]a c\ vân\toarea la râs este suspendat\ în România. Iat\ un exemplu în care fotografia de natur\ s\lbatic\ [i-a ar\tat eficacitatea. Ur[ii – care acum nu au o via]\ prea u[oar\, pentru c\ legisla]ia a fost relaxat\ în privin]a lor [i pot fi împu[ca]i, dar poate c\ într-adev\r sunt prea mul]i – sunt un subiect fotografic minunat. Am v\zut [i fotografii cu dezastre forestiere, o alt\ realitate trist\ a naturii noastre s\lbatice. Fotogeografica a afi[at în ultima vreme nu numai patrimoniu natural, ci [i cultural. Organiz\m safariuri fotografice prin satele române[ti în care mai exist\ un autentic patrimoniu etnografic [i folcloric. Aceste fotografii sunt documente care s-ar putea ca într-o bun\ zi s\ devin\ doar amintiri. Avem nevoie de amintiri în aceast\ Românie care se schimb\ în mod firesc, dar nu totdeauna în bine.

Schimb\rile climatice modific\ lumea în care tr\im, dar mai grav mi se pare ce se întâmpl\ pe plan local, mioritic, [i m\ refer la defri[\rile masive de vegeta]ie, la construc]iile de imobile în zonele protejate, la turismul de vandalism, l-a[ numi… Ce mo[tenire l\s\m copiilor no[tri?

Daaaaa! Ce s\ v\ spun? V\ dau un caz concret care m-a sup\rat foarte mult! Conservarea naturii ar trebui s\ o fac\ persoane care au voca]ie [i dedicare în primul rând [i, mai apoi, competen]\. Au fost mereu astfel de oameni inimo[i, asocia]ii, cluburi care au preluat în custodie zone protejate, conform legii, [i au devenit administratori legal împuternici]i de Ministerul Mediului – ei trebuiau s\ îndeplineasc\ anumite condi]ii pentru a deveni custozi. Cei mai mul]i [i-au f\cut foarte bine treaba [i atunci au intrat în conflict cu diverse interese locale, iar ace[ti oameni nemul]umi]i s-au dus la „[eful cel mare”– Liviu Dragnea era „[eful cel mare" pe-atunci, ca s\ spun clar. Am aflat cum a fost discu]ia: dom'le, vreau s\-mi fac o vil\ [i vin unii pe acolo, ni[te ONG-i[ti [i nu m\ las\. Sau al]ii care au vrut s\ deschid\ o carier\ sau s\ taie ni[te p\duri... „{eful cel mare" a întrebat: cine sunt dom'le ace[ti ONGi[ti care ne pun frâne? Hai c\ o rezolv\m. {i atunci, doamna Ministru a Mediului de-atunci [i cu doamna [ef\ a Agen]iei Na]ionale a Ariilor Protejate au dat o lege, în august 2018, o completare la legea conserv\rii, de fapt, la Ordonan]a 57 din 2007, prin care ONG-urilor li se retr\gea dreptul de administrare. O decizie cel tional park, but an area of national interest, don’t confuse them. One year after this event, the Ministry of the Environment put the management of the park up for auction, and the team I was leading won. From that moment on, with means consisting exclusively of sponsorships, with no help from the authorities, we began a series of activities, and the results were visible. We created footpaths, we put up signs, we put up pan-

els with scientific information, we built observational watchtowers wherefrom people could look through binoculars, and, most importantly, we had educational programs for the kids. We kept track of them up to some point: 7000 kids came to visit the park, in groups led by teachers. We had students who did their theses there, people were coming to jog there… It was a place for recreation and education. But things couldn’t stay like that – the sponsorships were limited to 20-30 thousand euros, so we couldn’t do much. We had an office in a high building by the lake wherefrom we had a very good view of the park. We had in our team rangers who were patrolling, and they caught poachers – there were incredibly big fish there; we once had an eleven-

something kilogram catch, a one meter and sixteen centimeter pike. This is not a fisherman’s story! Of course, these fish were supposed to be eaten by the otters, foxes, and other wild animals that lived there. The poachers came fishing at night, with electrical

current, and we had some trouble with them. Sometimes the gendarmes helped us, but there was no legal basis for them to intervene in such situations. We also had hilarious situations – the police came and fined the fishermen for consumption of alcohol in a public space, not for poaching. It’s distressing what was happening there. We had to deal with acts of vandalism, including arson. They set the reed on fire, and there is proof it wasn’t an accident. For this reason, the park needed support from an institution, and the most suitable for this job was the city council. The city council has recently taken on management duties for the park and, in virtue of this, they have created a new structure called The Administration of V\c\re[ti Natural Park –with a very generous number of personnel. I’m wondering – what will all these people be doing? The big question for me is whether there will be space in this new administration for a few people from the V\c\re[ti Natural Park Association, who have made great efforts to manage the park.

Fotogeografica – the nature photography project you are coordinating – has turned 25. Tell us about it.

Oh, how time flies! I’m just the helping hand that I’ve given to my friend Paul Borda[, who runs Casa Studen]ilor. He makes things work! I wasn’t involved in the first three-four years of the project’s life.

After that, as the editor-in-chief of National Geographic, I supported the project, and I was supported, in turn, by Fotogeografica – because the laureates went on to become collaborators for National Geographic. They are all very talented photographers, like, for instance, Silviu Matei, who now specializes in wild fauna. This is how we get photographs that are up to the standards of National Geographic. There is an inflation of photographers, technology now allows for easy manipulation. What is your take on nature photography? What are the boundaries that such photography must not cross?

You’ve answered the question – it should stay within the boundaries of common sense! Authenticity, authenticity, authenticity! There were cases of photographers who won prizes with photos of sunsets and stuffed animals that they put in plausible positions. I know of one such precedent. But real nature photographers can spend whole days on the lookout, camouflaged in the weeds. They are the ones who capture the authenticity of nature. This type of photography is a kind of plea for the conservation of nature. I’ll give you a simple example. Since I mentioned Silviu Matei –he spent a whole week by himself in a tree and he managed to capture some superb shots of some lynxes. I put these photographs next to some photos done by a hunting company, which encouraged hunters to come and shoot the lynxes of Romania. And, in order to be more convincing, in one of the photos they had about six bloody lynx carcasses. It was terrible, because the lynx is the panther of our Carpathians, and they are not present here in huge numbers, so we cannot afford to shoot them. Wildlife conservation specialists put together a folder which also included those photographs – and I took it and put it on the Environment Minister’s table myself. He reacted and, after a few days, he issued a statement suspending lynx hunting in Romania. Here’s an example of nature photography’s efficiency! Bears – who now don’t really have an easy life in Romania, because the legislation has been relaxed and they can now be shot, though maybe there really are too many of them – are a wonderful photographic subject. I’ve also seen photos of forestry disasters, another sad reality of our wild nature. Lately, Fotogeografica has featured not only the natural heritage, but also the cultural heritage. We organize photography safaris in the Romanian villages where there still is an authentic ethnographic and folkloric heritage. These photographs are documents that may one day be just memories. We need memories in the context of the changes that Romania is naturally going through – and not always for the best.

pu]in ciudat\, pentru c\ era discriminatorie. A fost un mare p\cat, pentru c\ ace[ti oameni erau în stare s\ vin\ cu bani de acas\ pentru a proteja p\durile. Ei, oricum, nu erau pl\ti]i, tr\iau doar din sponsoriz\ri [i din ac]iuni de voluntariat în care erau implicate, uneori, [i persoane str\ine cu experien]\ în conservarea naturii. Este o lupt\ grea în domeniul conserv\rii, iar fotografia este un martor bun. Dac\ fotograful e onest [i e [i priceput, ajut\ foarte mult la conservarea ariilor protejate. Nu v\ spun cât de mult a contat pentru promovarea Parcului Natural V\c\re[ti publicarea articolului „Delta dintre blocuri", în mai 2012, în National Geographic, cu fotografiile f\cute de domnul Helmut Ignat, fotografii care au fost extraordinar de conving\toare. Nimeni nu a vrut s\ cread\ c\ exist\ a[a ceva în centrul Bucure[tiului.

Pandemia a „obligat” turi[tii din România s\-[i cunoasc\ ]ara. Care sunt zonele care ar trebui vizitate mai mult? Vorbi]i-ne [i despre Parcul Na]ional Buila Vânturari]a, [tiu c\ sunte]i membru în consiliul [tiin]ific.

Buila Vânturari]a este cel mai mic parc na]ional din România, dar este alc\tuit foarte armonios. În zona central\ are o creast\ calcaroas\, ca o mic\ Piatr\ a Craiului, o zon\ pr\p\stioas\ [i periculoas\. S-a pus problema, la un moment dat, s\ fie montate balustrade, dar rangerii care protejeaz\ parcul s-au opus. Ei au spus c\ nu vor s\ încurajeze „turismul peste m\sur\!" Au propus amplasarea de panouri care s\ avertizeze c\ aventurarea pe poteci cu grad mare de periculozitate poate fi foarte periculoas\. V\ sun\ asta cinic? Dup\ p\rerea mea, nu. Eu cred c\ nu trebuie s\ transform\m natura în bulevard! Cei care vor bulevard pot merge în Bucegi. Acolo pot ajunge cu ma[ina, sau pe Transalpina, sau pe Transf\g\r\[an. S\ l\s\m mun]ilor ce este al mun]ilor! Ultimii doi ani au adus o invazie extraordinar\ de turi[ti, iar pentru natur\ asta nu a însemnat un lucru pozitiv. Ca s\ ajung\ la Bucura, în „inima Retezatului", turi[tii merg cu ma[ina pân\ la Gura Bucurei. De obicei, aici sunt parcate 20/30 de ma[ini. Din parcare se merge pe o potec\ pân\ la lacul Bucura. Anul trecut [irul de ma[ini m\sura câ]iva kilometri! Un loc care este supus unui asemenea impact începe s\ sufere, pentru c\ se creeaz\ un dezechilibru pe care nu ai cum s\-l rezolvi, între densitatea mare de turi[ti [i resursele limitate pe care le au autorit\]ile pentru a proteja zona. Acolo sunt doar câ]iva rangeri care pot opera în teren. Dar, trebuie s\ men]ionez, sunt ni[te rangeri foarte buni, care administreaz\ foarte bine zona, iar parcul arat\ ca orice parc din America. E important s\ po]i monitoriza zona. În momentul în care vizitatorii te cople[esc, lucrurile se pot deteriora.

Eu am fost fericit s\ v\d c\ Buila Vânturari]a se autoprotejeaz\ datorit\ formelor geografice pr\p\stioase. Acolo sunt multe animale s\lbatice, capre negre, lupi, [i e mai bine s\ nu le perturb\m climatul. Foarte mul]i se duc pân\ în „zona tampon" a parcului, ca s\ o numesc a[a, unde se g\sesc ni[te schituri foarte frumoase – Schitul P\trunsa, Schitul Pahomnie, M\n\stirea Iezer – care pot absorbi un num\r mai mare de vizitatori. Ast\ var\, am fost în Parcul Natural Bucegi [i nu a[ zice c\ am fost foarte fericit de ce am v\zut, pentru c\ [oseaua Transbucegi faciliteaz\, poate, prea mult accesul auto [i aduce turi[ti care fac foarte mult\ mizerie pe lâng\ Sfinx. Ei vin cu daci [i mituri fabuloase printre cutii de conserve de bere… aceea[i problem\…

Nu exist\ un raport just între cererea turistic\ [i oferta turistic\.

{i, atunci, care ar fi solu]iile dvs. pentru conservarea parcurilor na]ionale [i naturale, a ariilor protejate [i a patrimoniului natural?

S\ nu invent\m apa cald\! S\ ne uit\m cum fac al]ii! {i s\ încerc\m s\ ne apropiem de standardele lor, de modul lor de administrare. Eu am v\zut parcuri na]ionale în ]ara care le-a inventat, în America. Acolo sunt parcuri formidabile, iar lucrurile sunt puse în ordine. Americanii au un corp de rangeri care func]ioneaz\ într-un sistem centralizat. Toat\ zestrea naturii este dat\ în grija unui for care se nume[te National Park Service, unde personalul este bine instruit, bine educat [i [tie întotdeauna cum s\ ac]ioneze. Un lucru care mi-a pl\cut foarte mult, rangerul te întâmpin\ cu un zâmbet cât toate zilele, dar la brâu are un pistol: el reprezint\ autoritatea! Nu în]eleg de ce la noi un jandarm care p\ze[te un p\rcule] are pistol, iar rangerii no[tri care p\zesc zestrea natural\ nu primesc aceast\ autoritate. Ar trebui s\ avem [i noi rangeri bine instrui]i care s\ cunoasc\ legisla]ie, s\ aib\ no]iuni de psihologie [i educa]ie [tiin]ific\. La noi, cele mai Climate change alters the world we live in, but what I think is worse is what’s happening locally, nationally – I mean the massive deforestation, the constructions in protected areas, vandalistic tourism I would call it… What are we leaving for our kids?

Of course! What should I tell you? I’ll give you an example that made me very upset. The conservation of nature is something that must be looked after by people who, first, have a vocation for it and are dedicated, and, secondly, are competent. We always had kind people, associations and clubs who took protected areas into custody, and, in accordance with the law, they became the managers of these areas, authorized by the Ministry of the Environment (they had to satisfy certain conditions in order to become custodians). Most of them did a great job, which is why they came into conflict with the interests of others, and these dissatisfied people went to complain to the big boss, Liviu Dragnea – he was the big boss at the time, it must be said. I learned how the discussion went: Mr Dragnea, I want to build a villa and some people from NGOs won’t let me. Others wanted to cut down some trees, to build quarries… And so the big boss asked: Who are these guys from NGOs that make things hard for us? Let’s fix this. So the Minister of the Environment at the time together with the boss of the Agency for Protected Areas passed a law which forbade

NGOs from managing protected areas. This was a weird, discriminatory decision. It was a shame because these NGO people were of the kind who would not have refrained from protecting the forests with money out of their own pockets. After all, they weren’t paid for it, only living from sponsorships and volunteering – also, foreign people with experience in the conservation of nature were sometimes involved. Conservation is a hard fight, and photography is a good witness. If the photographer is honest and competent, this helps a lot with the conservation of protected areas. I cannot overestimate the contribution that the article “The Delta between Apartment Buildings” (which appeared in National Geographic in May 2012, with extremely convincing photographs from Helmut Ignat) had for the promotion of V\c\re[ti Natural Park. No one believed something like that was lying in the middle of Bucharest.

The pandemic has forced Romanian tourists to discover their country. Which areas should be more popular? Please also tell us about the Buila Vånturari]a National Park – you are a member of the scientific council there.

Buila Vånturari]a is the smallest national park in Romania, but it has a very harmonious composition. In the central region there is a calcareous ridge, like a smaller version of the Piatra Craiului, a steep, dangerous area. At some point they wanted to install railings, but the rangers who protect the park opposed the decision. They said they didn’t want to overencourage tourism. Instead, they suggested signs could be put up, warning others of the dangers of certain paths. Does this sound cynical to you? I don’t think it is. I don’t think we should transform nature into a boulevard! Those who want boulevards can go to Bucegi. They can get there by car. Or they can go to Transalpina. Or Transf\g\r\[an. Let’s render unto the mountains what belongs to the mountains! The past two years have seen an extraordinary invasion of tourists, and this is not a positive thing for nature. In order to get to Bucura, in the heart of the Retezat Mountains, tourists first travel to Gura Bucurei by car. From the parking lot, there is a footpath towards Lake Bucura. Last year, the “motorcade” was a few kilometers long! When you subject a place to such an impact, it will suffer, because you create an imbalance which you cannot fix, between the high density of tourists and the limited resources to protect the area. There are only a few rangers on the field. I must mention they are doing a great job and the park looks like any park in the USA. It is important to be able to monitor the area. When an area is overwhelmed with visitors, things can deteriorate. I was happy to see that Buila Vånturari]a has a self-defense mechanism because of its steep relief. There are lots of wild animals there, black sheep, wolves, and it’s best that we don’t disturb their climate. Lots of people go close to the park’s buffer zone, where they can find beautiful sketes – Schitu P\trunsa, Schitu Pahomnie, Iezer Monastery – which can take a great number of visitors. I went to Bucegi Natural Park last summer and I wouldn’t say that I was too happy with what I saw, because the Transbucegi road perhaps facilitates too much traffic and brings in tourists who leave a lot of garbage near the Sphinx. They come in thinking of the Dacians and mythical stories, but they are surrounded by beer cans. The same old problem… There is no balance between the touristic demand and the touristic supply.

So what is your solution for the conservation of national and natural parks, protected areas, and our natural heritage?

Let’s not reinvent the wheel! Let’s look at what others are doing and try to get closer their standards, their managerial approach! I’ve seen national parks in the country that invented them, the USA. They have magnificent parks and everything is organized. American park rangers are part of a centralized system. The natural heritage is in the care of a forum called National Park Service – the personnel there are very well trained and and they always know how to react. A thing I really liked –rangers greet you with a great big smile, but they are armed: they represent the authority! I don’t understand why gendarmes in Romania have guns, but the rangers who look after our natural heritage do not have this authority. We should also have well trained rangers who know the laws, who have a basic knowledge of psychology and science. Most of our national and natural parks are managed by the National Administration of Forests, which has economic duties. This institution needs to live off something, so they make money from the exploitation of forests and from hunting. This is where they go astray. They say – protect hunting – when they should be saying – protect our biodiversity! Our rangers are not really rangers, but they could become real rangers if they are trained properly. I witnessed a situation in the Retezat Mountains. They have very good managers and, in a place where tourists weren’t allowed to put up tents, in Poiana Pelegii, there was a clear sign saying that open fire is forbidden. Some troublemakers ignored the sign and started a fire. They were warned about it, but didn’t care. So who came out of the blue? Mr Zoran, the manager of the park. He confirmed their identities and gave each a 500 RON fine. The boys tried to protest, but they were informed that the gendarmerie would come if they wouldn’t comply. So they had to bite the bullet and pay up. Education requires firmness and, sometimes, coercion.

There are countless TV series about Romania. Which one did you think was the best?

The latest one! The one done by Dan Dinu and his friend. Wild Romania. I was very proud to find that Romania has not only beautiful nature, but also people who are capable of promoting it. I have the utmost respect for this accomplishment. Of course, I like Charlie Ottley’s films. They are showing the beautiful side of

multe parcuri na]ionale [i naturale sunt administrate de Regia Na]ional\ a P\durilor, care are de îndeplinit sarcini economice. Ea trebuie s\ tr\iasc\ [i atunci scoate bani din exploatarea lemnului [i din vânat. {i aici s-a rupt filmul. Ei spun: proteja]i vânatul, când ar trebui s\ spun\ proteja]i biodiversitatea! P\durarii no[tri nu sunt rangeri, dar ar putea deveni, dac\ ar fi bine instrui]i. Am asistat odat\, în Retezat, la o scen\. Exist\ administratori foarte buni [i, într-un loc unde turi[tii aveau voie s\[i pun\ cortul, în Poiana Pelegii, scria clar c\ e interzis focul deschis. Ni[te tineri zurbagii au ignorat inscrip]ia [i s-au apucat s\ fac\ focul. Li s-a atras aten]ia, dar nu au vrut s\ ]in\ cont de rug\mintea rangerilor. {i, deodat\, cine a ap\rut? Dl. Zoran, directorul parcului na]ional. I-a legitimat [i le-a dat câte 500 de lei amend\ de fiecare. B\ie]ii au încercat s\ protesteze, dar li s-a pus în vedere c\ vor fi ridica]i de jandarmeria montan\. Atunci, baie]ii au înghi]it în sec [i au pl\tit amenda. Educa]ia se face cu fermitate [i, uneori, cu coerci]ie.

S-au f\cut nenum\rate seriale despre România. Care vi s-a p\rut cel mai bun?

Ultimul! Cel f\cut de Dan Dinu [i de prietenul lui, România S\lbatic\. Am fost foarte mândru s\ constat c\ România nu are doar natur\ frumoas\, ci [i oameni capabili s\ o pun\ în valoare. Am toat\ stima pentru aceast\ realizare. Desigur, îmi plac [i filmele f\cute de Charlie Ottley. Ei arat\ chipul frumos al României. {i e bine s\-l vedem! Acum 4 ani m-am întâlnit la Bucure[ti cu prin]ul Charles al Marii Britanii, am fost în echipa care s-a întâlnit cu dânsul [i i-am prezentat Parcul Natural V\c\re[ti. Dac\ e adev\rat, am în]eles c\ exact pentru asta a venit la Bucure[ti, pentru c\ lui nu `i place pe aici, el st\ în Transilvania lui. {i mi-a spus: domnule, ave]i o zestre, o bog\]ie… nu v\ bate]i joc de ea! Proteja]i-o! Nu repeta]i gre[elile noastre pentru c\ noi, în Anglia, în parcul natural nu mai avem decât câteva veveri]e [i dou\ vulpi. Vorbele lui m-au f\cut [i mai trist, pentru c\ v\d c\ nu putem coagula un efort na]ional pentru salvarea p\durilor. Peste patru milioane de oameni se înc\lzesc iarna cu lemne. T\iem 20 de milioane de metri cubi pe an ca s\ le b\g\m pe foc! Este criminal ce se întâmpl\. Desigur, nu putem s\-i l\s\m pe oameni în frig, dar nici nu c\ut\m alte variante. Eu, când v\d c\ trec pe drumuri camioane înc\rcate cu copaci seculari… p\i, când se mai refac p\durile din care au fost t\ia]i? În 200, în 300 de ani? {i m\ doare, pur [i simplu, sufletul când îmi dau seama c\ pierdem iremediabil p\durile.

Robelo este despre Romanian Best Locations, despre cele mai frumoase locuri din România. Vorbim de locuri [i resorturi turistice. Putem deveni un reper turistic în lume din acest punct de vedere? Putem vinde rural, tradi]ii [i natur\?

Înc\ da! Ruralul este deosebit de atractiv! Dar ruralul autentic. Aten]ie! Exist\ foarte multe falsuri [i trebuie s\ avem grij\. Unii î[i închipuie c\ dac\ vine str\inu' [i vede cum mulgi vaca, gata… Ei, nu e chiar a[a. Dac\ vom mai avea p\duri frumoase [i nu ni[te cioturi, asemenea locuri vor atrage turi[ti din lumea larg\. {i nu vorbesc teoretic. În mai vor veni la mine ni[te profesori de la Harvard, pe care i-am cunoscut la ei acas\ în 2019, [i care au fost atât de încânta]i de prezentarea cu poze pe care am facut-o la ei, încât au dorit imediat s\ viziteze România. I-am avut musafiri [i au plecat atât de încânta]i de România încât au vrut s\ m\ „n\p\deasc\” în anul urm\tor, dar am avut noroc cu Covidu’.

Ei asta vor s\ vad\, natur\ [i pe[teri. Avem înc\ destule pe[teri neamenajate, dar în care nu î]i „rupi gâtul”. Dup\ p\rerea mea, aceasta e [ansa noastr\ s\ vindem natur\. Pe[terile se pot vizita cu o casc\ cu lamp\ frontal\ [i echipament simplu. Întâlnirea cu adâncurile, cu teluricul s\lbatic, este o experien]\ autentic\. Nu spun c\ nu sunt bune amenaj\rile industriale, cu alei de beton, cu electrificare, cu ghizi, dar ar fi bine s\ fie cât mai pu]ine pe[teri de acest fel. Aceste amenaj\ri pricopsesc investitorul care amenajeaz\, dar, în rest, toat\ lumea are de pierdut. Experien]a speologic\, cultural\, dispare [i, în acela[i timp, pe[tera sufer\ transform\ri iremediabile. Avem speoturism, dar str\inii merg, în general, ghida]i de speologi amatori.

Delta. Nu am experien]\ bogat\ de delt\, dar prietenii mei cercet\tori, care o viziteaz\, sunt tot mai îngrozi]i. Delta este unul dintre acele locuri care ne arat\ neputin]a noastr\ de a rezolva probleme. B\rcile cu 150 de cai putere care fac valuri [i zgomot, cu nesim]ire, produc un r\u imens. Ele nu pot fi oprite, nu pot fi sanc]ionate, braconajul nu poate fi oprit, construc]iile stupide, care nu se armonizeaz\ ambiental, abund\… Dac\ ar fi existat o mi[care inteligent\ de la vârf, dac\ guvernul ar fi pl\tit ni[te arhitec]i care s\ elaboreze proiecte de construc]ie specifice diferitelor zone geografice, am fi avut o ]ar\… Primarii s\ aib\ aceste proiecte, iar când vine cineva s\ cear\ autoriza]ie de construc]ie, primarul s\ îi poat\ spune: domnule, trebuie s\ te încadrezi în proiectul A, în proiectul B, în proiectul C… [i atunci am fi avut la Mogo[oaia cartiere brâncovene[ti – vizavi de palatul brâncovenesc sunt acum o gr\mad\ de viloaie proste[ti – în Maramure[ am fi avut case maramure[ene… Maramure[ul s-a denaturat foarte mult. Maramure[enii vin acas\ din str\in\tate cu bani [i construiesc c\soaie în care nu st\ nimeni. Duce]i-v\ pe Valea Arie[ului unde exista un pitoresc specific, iar acum, în locul c\su]elor de mo]i, vezi câte o viloaie pensiune cu acoperi[ albastru, cu pere]i portocalii… Auzi, câteodat\, spunându-se: domnule, suntem a doua Elve]ie, am putea tr\i numai din turism… Dar, pentru asta, ar fi nevoie de competen]\ [i onestitate, dar noi avem, la schimb, incompeten]\ [i corup]ie. {i mai avem o mândrie patriotic\ umflat\: [ti]i c\ avem Cascada Big\r care este a doua din lume… vai de capul nostru, nu e nici a cincea, nici a zecea din România, Transf\g\r\[anul este al doilea drum alpin din Europa… vai de capul meu, exist\ în Alpi ni[te [osele de un spectacol senza]ional!

Nu trebuie s\ ne sim]im descuraja]i, dar trebuie s\ în]elegem c\ sunt necesare eforturi pentru a p\stra valorile autentice de natur\ [i de cultur\ rural\. Cu toate acestea, trebuie s\ ]inem cont c\ turismul rural are limitele lui. Nu po]i face turism în zonele rurale cu autocarul. În acel moment ai distrus tot. Gândi]i-v\ ce se întâmpl\ cu pelerinajele pe la m\n\stiri. Înainte mergeai la m\n\stire cu un anumit sentiment, m\n\stirea î]i treze[te o anumit\ stare, este un amestec de sentiment religios, de respect pentru trecut… dar dac\ acum autocarele dau n\val\ peste m\n\stiri cu zecile deodat\, s\racele m\n\stiri se depreciaz\. Toat\ lumea scoate câte un smartphone [i mitraliaz\ cu poze [i asta-i tot. Apar [i falsificatorii care vor s\ fac\ profit [i totul s-a terminat.

Trebuie sprijinit\ forma autentic\, trebuie ]inut\ sub control.

A]i luat premiul UNESCO pentru jurnalism de [tiin]\. În m\sura `n care totul se falsific\, de la imagine la con]inut, care este soarta jurnalismului de ni[\, de natur\ [i turism `n spe]\?

Fotogeografica face o excelent\ [coal\ de educare a gustului pentru autentic! Dac\ e[ti educat po]i face diferen]a dintre o fotografie for]at\, trucat\, regizat\ – cineva a luat floricica [i a b\gat-o cu mâna într-o cr\p\tur\ de piatr\ [i a intitulat fotografia „puterea vie]ii”, de exemplu – [i una autentic\. Mai vezi ]\ranii care cosesc în ii impecabile, scrobite, îmbr\ca]i în costum de duminic\… De aceea e foarte bun\ Fotogeografica, pentru c\ de 25 de ani îi înva]\ pe oameni s\ fac\ diferen]a.

În ce prive[te soarta jurnalismului, vedem c\ el composteaz\ tot felul de nebuneli – avem tuneluri care merg pe sub Sfinx pân\ la piramida lui Keops, avem schelete de daci de 10 metri lungime… aceste [tiri, din p\cate, au succes la oameni extrem de pu]in educa]i. {tiin]a este tulbur\tor de frumoas\, iar noi tr\im o epoc\ fantastic\. În ultima sut\ de ani avem tot mai multe r\spunsuri la întreb\rile noastre, [tim din ce în ce mai mult. {tim c\ universul a avut un început, ne-o spun fizicienii – cine are r\bdare s\ citeasc\ va fi uimit de teoria Big Bang-ului, modelul care explic\ apari]ia materiei, energiei, spa]iului [i timpului – biologii [i geneticienii ne spun despre celula microscopic\ a ADN-ului – acolo este tot planul de construc]ie al fiin]ei noastre, sunt peste 3 miliarde de litere acolo, care ar ocupa o întreag\ bibliotec\ cu 1000 de volume – geologii au descoperit tectonica pl\cilor – ce este vulcanismul, ce este seismicitatea… este tulbur\tor. ADN-ul a fost descoperit în ’53, tectonica pl\cilor în ’73, iar în 2012, Higgs a descoperit „Particula lui Dumnezeu”, particula care face trecerea de la energia pur\ la materie… Dac\ suntem ignoran]i, e foarte u[or s\ ne imagin\m tot felul de SFuri. {tim foarte bine deja, înv\]\mântul românesc merge foarte prost, analfabe]ii func]ionali sunt tot mai mul]i [i-atunci teoriile abracadabrante prind de minune. Dispar publica]iile [tiin]ifice, dispar rubricile [tiin]ifice din ziare [i ziarele cu totul, dar, aten]ie, dispar doar de la noi, în ]\rile civilizate revistele [i ziarele au o via]\ bun\. Romania. And it’s good to see it! Four years ago I met HRH The Prince of Wales in Bucharest. I was part of the team who met him to show him the V\c\re[ti Natural Park. If the rumor is true, I heard that this was the exact reason for his coming to Bucharest, because otherwise he doesn’t really like these parts –he prefers Transylvania. And he told me: This is your heritage here! Don’t mess with it! Protect it! Don’t repeat our mistakes – in England, in our natural park we only have a few squirrels and two foxes. His words made me even sadder because I see that we cannot make a national joint effort to save our forests. More than four million people use firewood for heating their homes during the winter. We cut 20 million cubic meters of wood per year just to burn them! This is a crime! Of course, we can’t let these people freeze – but we aren’t searching for alternatives either. When I see trucks full of noble trees on the road passing by… When will those trees grow back? In 200300 years? It really hurts my soul because I realize we are losing something – permanently.

Robelo is about Romanian Best Locations, the most beautiful places and touristic resorts in Romania. Can we become a touristic landmark from this perspective? Can we market our countryside, our traditions, our natural heritage?

We still can! The countryside is extremely attractive – the authentic rural. Be careful, though – there are many fakes out there. Some people imagine that if foreigners come and see you milking a cow, that’s enough… It’s not really like that! If we will still have beautiful forests – not stumps – such places will attract tourists from all over the world. This is not a theory. In May I will be visited by some Harvard professors whom I met in their homeland in 2019, and who were so impressed by the photographic presentation I prepared for them that they wanted to visit Romania immediately. They’ve been my guests before and they left so impressed by Romania that they wanted to come again the following year, but we got lucky with Covid. That’s what they want to see – nature, caves… We still have plenty of “virgin” caves where you still won’t break your neck. This is, in my opinion, our chance to sell nature. Caves can be visited with simple equipment – a helmet equipped with a lamp. The encounter with the depths, with the telluric dimension, is an authentic experience. I’m not saying that industrial improvements – paved footpaths, electricity, guides – are bad, but caves organized in this

Statul nu sus]ine de niciun fel presa [tiin]ific\ [i revistele, în general. Sun\ pesimist ce spun, dar asta este realitatea palpabil\, nu e vreo inven]ie de-a mea. Agen]iile de publicitate fac un joc cinic, statul nu se îngrije[te deloc de educa]ia [tiin]ific\, iar rezultatele le vedem. Revista {tiin]\ [i Tehnic\ mai func]ioneaz\, dar, din p\cate, National Geographic, al\turi de multe alte publica]ii oneste, a disp\rut.

Ave]i recunoa[terea interna]ional\ a celor mai importante institu]ii de profil. Ave]i discipoli? Vine cineva din urm\?

Of! Oarecum. La institutul de speologie exist\ o genera]ie de pasiona]i care au proiecte de cercetare [i colabor\ri interna]ionale, care public\ în reviste interna]ionale. La aceste reviste sunt referen]i care î]i „puric\” informa]ia. Exist\ un filtru de care nu treci decât dac\ e[ti onest [i dac\ informa]ia ta este valoroas\. Dar, chiar [i referen]ii mai gre[esc câteodat\. Revista care gre[e[te cel mai pu]in, spre deloc, este revista “Science”. Pe locul doi este revista Nature. Ele nu vor muri a[a cum a murit revista National Geographic la noi, pentru c\ ele sunt sus]inute de o larg\ comunitate [tiin]ific\, iar cercet\torii tânjesc s\ poat\ publica articole în ele. Ca s\ în]elege]i cât de importante sunt aceste reviste, pân\ când nu a ap\rut un articol despre pe[tera Movile în revista Science (în 1986, Cristian Lascu a descoperit Pe[tera Movile, din Dobrogea, unic\ în lume prin ecosistemul ei, în care exist\ via]\ f\r\ lumina Soarelui), americanii nu s-au prea interesat de ea, dar, la trei zile dup\ publicarea unui articol semnat de microbiologul R\zvan Sârbu despre aceast\ pe[ter\, am fost sunat de microbiologii de la NASA, care au venit urgent în România s\ vad\ pe[tera. La un moment dat a ap\rut o [tire care a fost publicat\ de toate revistele de specialitate despre fusiunea atomic\ (unirea a doi atomi de hidrogen la temperaturi de milioane de grade), mai pu]in de revista Science [i s-a dovedit, în final, c\ referen]ii de la Science au avut dreptate s\ fie sceptici. S-a dovedit c\ fusiunea respectiv\ a fost o eroare experimental\…

Sunte]i sus, foarte sus, în Hall of Fame! Ce v-a]i dori cel mai mult s\ vi se întample, profesional vorbind?

Ei, nu sunt chiar a[a de sus (n.r. a afirmat cu modestie cercet\torul). Imaginea mea a luat-o înaintea faptelor. Ca speolog m\ mi[c mai greu, ajung mai greu prin pe[terile mele dragi, dar public mai mult. Acum sunt mai atent când inspectez o pe[ter\ [i descop\r lucruri care, alt\dat\, îmi sc\pau. Este rezultatul experien]ei mele. Eu locuiesc în bojdeuca mea din B\r\gan, aflat\ într-o curte plin\ de vegeta]ie, [i public. În ultimii doi ani am publicat la editura Humanitas o carte despre Emil Racovi]\, „Din Antarctica la Sc\ri[oara”, [i un album de fotografie, cu acela[i nume. Doamna Lidia Bodea, Redactorul {ef al editurii, m-a ajutat s\ public împreun\ cu un bun prieten fotograf care tr\ie[te în Germania, înc\ o carte despre una dintre cele mai importante pe[teri din România, Pe[tera Topolni]a, un volum impun\tor, [i înc\ un alt album despre „inima” Mun]ilor Apuseni, despre Padi[. Am mai publicat comentarii despre Parcul Na]ional Retezat, iubesc enorm Retezatul, [i o serie de alte comentarii [tiin]ifice. M\ folosesc de „[coala” National Geographic, unde am fost instruit s\ scriu accesibil tuturor, dar riguros. Am înv\]at c\ informa]ia trebuie s\ fie concret\ [i de rigoare academic\. way should be in the minority. This type of organization is lucrative for the investor, but everyone else loses. The speleological, cultural experience is lost and, at the same time, the cave is permanently altered. There is speleological tourism in Romania, but foreigners usually go on tours guided by amateur speleologists. About the Danube Delta – I don’t have extensive experience with the Delta, but my friends who are researchers tell me that they are getting more and more frightened. The Danube Delta is one of those places that exposes our inability to solve problems. There are boats that produce 150 horsepower, generating waves and noise, and this behavior has devastating consequences. They can’t be stopped, they can’t be sanctioned, poaching cannot be stopped, stupid constructions that are not in harmony with the landscape abound… If some intelligent measures came from the top, if the government paid architects to develop projects specific to the geographical regions of our country – then we would have a country! Mayors should have these guidelines, so that when someone comes to ask for a building permit, they are able to say – You must fit into Plan A, B, or C… If that happened, we would see Bråncovean buildings in Mogo[oaia – next to the Palatul Bråncovenesc we now have loads of stupid villas… We would have houses in Maramure[ that fit the architectural style there… Maramure[ has been altered a great deal. People from Maramure[ come home from abroad and they build these huge houses where no one lives. Go to Valea Arie[ului where they have a particular folklore, but now, instead of their traditional houses you get a huge villa here and there with a blue roof and orange walls. You sometimes hear people saying –we are like a little Switzerland, we could live solely off tourism! But for this, competence and honesty are needed. What we get instead is incompetence and corruption. And there is one more inflated pride and joy of ours – Cascada Big\r, the second waterfall in the world… My God! It’s neither the fifth, nor the tenth in Romania… Transf\g\r\[an, the second alpine road in Romania… My God, there are sensational roads in the Alps, spectacular! We shouldn’t be discouraged by this, but we need to understand that efforts are needed in order to preserve our values, our natural and cultural heritage. Still, we must understand

that rural tourism has its limits. You cannot bring buses full of tourists in villages. At that point you’ve ruined everything! Think about what happened with pilgrimages at monasteries… You used to go to a monastery with certain sentiments, a certain mood was awakened by the monastery, a mixture of religious sentiments, of respect for the past… But if tens of buses come pouring at the same time… The poor monasteries depreciate! Everyone whips out their smartphones and takes some shots and that’s it. Then you get forgers looking to make a profit and that is the end. We need to preserve authenticity, things must be kept under control!

You won the UNESCO prize for scientific journalism. In the present context of being able to mystify everything, from image to content, what is the fate of niche journalism, of nature and tourism journalism?

Fotogeografica is an excellent school of taste for authenticity! If you are educated you can make the difference between a truncated photograph – where someone took a little flower and shoved it in the crack of a stone, and called it, “the power of life” – and an authentic photograph. You can still see peasants mowing in impeccable traditional clothes, dressed in Sunday clothes. This is the good thing about Fotogeografica, because for 25 years it has been teaching people to make this difference. As far as the fate of journalism is concerned, we see all kinds of things – tunnels beneath the Sphinx going all the way to the Pyramid of Cheops, 10 meters long Dacian skeletons… This kind of news is successful with uneducated people, unfortunately. Science is breathtakingly beautiful, and we are living in a fantastic era. In the last hundred years we have answered more and more of our questions, we know more and more. We know that the Universe had a beginning –physicists tell us that. Those who have the patience to read will be amazed by the Big Bang theory, the model which explains the birth of matter, energy, space and time, biologists and geneticists tell us about the microscopic cell of the DNA, where the whole construction plan of our being lies – there are over 3 billion letters there, which would fill a whole library (1000 volumes) – they explain what volcanism is, what seismicity is… If one is ignorant, it is easy to imagine all kinds of science fiction. We already know that Romanian education is doing very bad, that there are more and more functional illiterates, and so mumbo-jumbo theories catch on. Scientific publications are disappearing, scientific corners are disappearing from newspapers, and newspapers are disappearing in themselves – but pay attention, this is only happening in Romania; newspapers and magazines have a good life in civilized countries. There is no support from the state for any kind of scientific press and for magazines, in general. What I’m saying may sound pessimistic, but this is the reality, it’s not an invention of mine. Publishing agencies are playing a cynical game, the state does not care at all for scientific education, and the consequences are visible. Science and Technology Magazine is still alive, but, unfortunately, National Geographic has gone, along with other honest publications.

You have the international recognition of the most important institutions in the field. Do you have disciples? Is someone following in your footsteps?

Kind of. At the speleology institute there is a generation of passionate scientists who are doing research projects and international collaborations, and who publish in international journals. These journals employ reviewers who put your work under the microscope. There is a filter in place that will not allow your work to go through unless you are honest and your knowledge is valuable. Still, even reviewers sometimes make mistakes. The magazine that is seldom wrong is Science magazine. Nature takes second place. They will not die like National Geographic did in Romania because they are supported by a large scientific community and researchers long to be able to publish there. Just so you understand how important these magazines are – before the article about Cave Movile appeared in Science Magazine (1986 – Cristian Lascu discovers Cave Movile in Dobrogea, unique worldwide because of its ecosystem which allows for the existence of life without sunlight), the Americans didn’t care much for it. But, three days after an article authored by the microbiologist R\zvan Sårbu about this cave was published, we got a call from the microbiologists at NASA, who came urgently to Romania to see it. At one point, there was an experiment that was making the headlines, it was published by all the magazines in the field, about atomic fusion (joining two atoms of hydrogen at temperatures of millions of degrees) – with the exception of Science magazine. In the end, it turned out that the reviewers at Science were right to be skeptical. That kind of fusion proved to be an experimental error.

You are at the top, in the hall of fame! What do you desire now, professionally speaking?

I’m not that big! My image has overpowered my deeds. As a speleologist I am moving slowly, it is harder to get to my beloved caves, but I publish more. Now I am more attentive when I inspect a cave and I discover things that I would have missed in the past. It is the result of my experience. I live in my shack in the B\r\gan, in a garden full of vegetation, and I publish. In the past two years I published at Humanitas a book about Emil Racovi]\ (From Antarctica to Sc\ri[oara) and a photo album, with the same name. Lidia Bodea, the editorin-chief of the publishing company, helped me publish, together with a good friend of mine, a photographer who lives in Germany, another book about the most important caves in Romania:Pe[tera Topolni]a – an imposing volume –and another album focusing on the heart of the Apuseni Mountains, Padi[. I also published commentaries about the Retezat National Park – I love it! – and another series of scientific commentaries. I am capitalizing on the National Geographic school of writing, which taught me that writing should be accessible to everyone but rigorous. I learned that one should write clearly and with academic rigor.