VERBATIM REPORT OF THE SEVENTEENTH SITTING OF THE TOBAGO HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY HELD IN THE TOBAGO HALL OF JUSTICE ON THURSDAY 14TH APRIL, 1982, COMMENCING AT 3:30 P. M.
MR. CHARLES continues
Mr. Chairman, in moving this motion, I would like to go a little further to talk a little about the history and why this motion has come before this House. Mr. Chairman, it was only about a week ago that the House of Assembly received information to the effect that the Ministry of Health and the Central Administrative Services, Tobago, is seeking to take temporary position of the building that I have just mentioned in the motion for the purpose of treating mental patients. Mr. Chairman, one would recall or one must recognise the history of that site, the value of that site, to people not only living in Trinidad and Tobago, but our visitors to our Island, of our young children as a recreational outlet. As a people with a history Mr. Chairman, one would understand and others would also understand, what would be the reaction of a history knowing and loving people of such information. Mr. Chairman, I can say that it was some time last year, around October to November of 1981, that a group of correspondence came to the Tobago House of Assembly — and with your permission Mr. Chairman, I would just like to quote from that bit of correspondence — that bit of correspondence Mr. Chairman, came from the Central Administrative Services, Tobago, with (i) letter from the Permanent Secretary, Ministry of Education and Culture to the Permanent Secretary, Central Administrative Services, Tobago. Attention Mr. H. Bailey, dated the 19th of August, 1981, and the subject matter is Construction of Psychiatric Clinic within the Compound of Fort King George, Tobago. I would just like Mr. Chairman, to just
MR CHARLES continues
a bit of We were in constant communication and discussion with these people, a letter was despatched after that minute Mr. Chairman, to the Hospital Manager, the Specialist Medical Officer of Health, and that letter Mr. Chairman was dated 26th October, and it reads -: "I refer to the subject matter which is construction of psychiatric Clinic within the compound of Fort King George, and shall be grateful if you will inform me of the following -: (i)
The detailed use for which the building is intended;
(ii)
By whom was the authority for its conversion granted; and
(iii) The detailed expenditure on the restoration and renovation works to date. 2. Your prompt attention to this request will be appreciated." Mr. Chairman the Hospital Medical Director replied to that letter addressed to the Clerk on 13th November, 1981, and Mr. Chairman, permit me to quote from this letter also. This letter is dated 13th November, 1981 -: "Subject - construction of Psychiatric Clinic within the Compound of Fort King George. I refer to your memorandum dated26th October, 1981 on the above subject and to inform you that the renovation of the building at Fort King George for a Psychiatric Unit was to hold day clinics thus housing the following officers: (a) One Psychiatric worker; (b) Two Mental Health Officers;
MR. CHARLES continues
Those are the facts of the case, and this is what we are called upon Mr. Chairman, to take the decision on according to the motion. Mr. Chairman, I would like to just commend this particular motion, not only to this Honourable House, but to all the rational sensible people in this Country for the appropriate action. I beg to move.
CHAIRMAN
Is there a seconder? Dr. Elder.
DR. ELDER
Mr. Chairman, Members of the Tobago House of Assembly, in all seriousness, I want to move the secondment of the motion before this House, laid in its utmost clarity in respect of the history of the case, and touching from time to time upon the law surrounding the contention which ties the opposition to this measure, and the action which this august House has taken. I want to deal a little briefly Mr. Chairman, upon the history, not of the case, but of the object and issue. Michael Anthony in his research into the history of Tobago or fighting for rights on the building of Fort King George, said, the structure, and he was speaking about the Royal Gaza, fabricated in 1877, said the structure was built to house troops of the British Army, but in the picture which we see, and there is a photograph of it, it is being used for quite a different purpose. The scene at Fort King George, in Scarborough, Tobago, at the Fort which they are going to repair, was built from 1777 to 1779. The picture taken about one hundred years after the Army Barracks broke up, we see our soldier—like people standing under the archives. There are prisoners now housed there, transforming the former British Army Barracks to the Scarborough Royal Gaol. This happened after the British troops were withdrawn from Tobago in 1854, leaving the building vacant. But in later years it was thought not quite proper for a Gaol, and the prisoners were transferred to the Royal Gaol in Port—of—Spain. The name Fort King George is an important part of the Tobago General Hospital. Mr. Chairman, today in this House in the year of Our Lord 1982, when I look upon this case Mr. Chairman, I find myself
DR ELDER continues
The documentary evidence Mr. Chairman, is very clear. The research done into the case as such, made it abundantly clear to anybody that the measure which we had,was going to be taken today or tomorrow, has been strongly condemned in some quarters, or has been strongly objected to in other quarters. And in respect of the Tobago House of Assembly, we think that no sensual person Mr. Chairman, no human being who namo5the name of an aesthetic, cultural, developed, civilised men, will want to make that kind of use of that kind of project. I want to repeat Sir, that no sensual being as a man who is in charge of his faculties and his senses, can really move into a situation like that, and take a decision like that, or aid and abet anybody to take such a decision, unless he resembles, Mr. Chairman, a character from a science fiction called "Doctor No." A Doctor no less Sir, but masochistic. Masochistic in the sense that you come to Tobago preaching we love Tobago, and yet you destroy it. Mr. Chairman there is a classical character in Dickens in the "Tale of Two Cities" called Jack, and they bring him up in the height of the revolution, 1792, beautiful women and ugly women before him, and they say, "Jack, we bring you here to kill, which one will you kill first?" And Jack said, "Messieurs, I will kill the pretty ones first." And it appears to me Sir, that a band of mad men let themselves go in Tobago, and they are out to kill the pretty ones first, they are destroying the beautiful things first Mr. Chairman. Of course Dickens reminds us that it was the worst of times and it was the best of times when he was describing what happened in France in those days, it was
MR. CALLENDER
To say that authority was not given is another
continues
question. I myself investigated the matter within the short space of time. At a meeting on the 13th April, 1982, where our member with special responsibility for Health and Sanitation Committee, and the Minister of Health; Minister in the Ministry of Health; Permanent Secretary, Central Administra tive Services, Tobago, and other officers of Central Administrative Services, Tobago, after discussion it was agreed that the building already renovated, I want to emphasize the fact, already renovated. Now the impression is that there would be destruction of the Fort, total destruction of our Natural beauty. The place has already been renovated, and I am not seeing any destruction. The fact is, the renovation job is completed. Are we of the Tobago House of Assembly depriving those patients of their rights, basic rights? That the same House of Assembly emphasized the fact that it is dangerous to see about the out—patients at the General Hospital. I think it was agreed that the building be used as a temporary measure to have some relief. It was decided that the building be fenced, and that an entrance be provided from the Hospital so as to prevent the patients from getting to the old tower. As I said, I am speaking of my conscience and the commitment for my people, the citizens of Trinidad and Tobago, especially Tobago. What is so harmful that the job has already been done. What is so harmful? I don't know how many of us are aware that within the past year we are like the psychiatric patients in this Country, and if we continue to deprive them of that daily treatment, they are to know. Now
CHAIRMAN
Mr. Jones
MR. JONES
Mr. Chairman, I stand here in support of a very important motion, and I must say Mr. Chairman, that I have listened carefully to the various contributions, and my mind starts working. I must firstly commend the Leader of Assembly Business for his presentation of that motion. I think it was well put together, and I would like to deal with certain mention of the last speaker. Mr. Chairman, mention was made of my attending a meeting on the 13th of January. The last speaker said, that the Secretary for Health and Sanitation agreed on the decision to use that building. Mr. Chairman, I want to set this clear that this is not so at all, I want to be absolutely clear on this.
MR JONES continues
Mr. Chairman at that meeting, I was asked to attend that meeting by the Minister of Health and Environment. When I got there, in addition to the Minister, the Minister in the Ministry of Health was also there at that meet-Lng, and also Mr. Pitt and Mr. Koo the Architect, the Permanent Secretary was there in that meeting. When. I got there Yr. Chairman, I didn't know exactly what the Minister wanted to talk to me about. When I got there I was told it's about the building at Fort George for Psychiatric Clinic. Mr. Chairman I listened attentively, and I gave my disapproval, this was me personally Mr. Chairman, on the use of that building. I asked Mr. Chairman, if you were to use that building to house psychiatric patients, and one was to remove or get out from that building and go across to the lighthouse and cause some kind of problem, what will happen? He said that the area could be fenced. This is how the fencing talk came up - that the area could be fenced, and there could be entry from the back of the building. I showed my strongest objection Mr. Chairman, and I'm very surprised now to hear I don't know where that information came from - that I agreed. I showed my strongest objection, and I said, why don't we think about an alternative building or alternative site? Then mention was made of the old Children's Ward that could be used. Mr. Chairman, Mr. Koo was asked, that's the Architect, how long would it take to put that building ii
that it
could be used for that purpose, and he replied that he would have to see the building before being able to say how long it would take. Mr. Chairman I want to deal with my letter to
MR. CALLENDER
I would rise on a point of objection or clarification. Mr. Chairman I think the member for Mason Hall/Providence has understood what I said, and to inform that I commenced with the people and I spoke about using the area temporarily, and he should know that that place is to be used once a week, so his reference to Caroni is not appropriate to the fact that that was to be a permanent structure where people would be housed. I want the point to be clear.
MR. JONES
Mr. Chairman I understand the representative for Whim/Plymouth quite well, and the thing about it is putting Psychiatric patients in an area irrespective of whether it is permanent or not, this is the point Mr. Chairman, and this is what people are resisting against, and this is the point that I'm making Mr. Chairman. As I was saying, I want to know if the people of Tobago don't have any sense, they are not thinking, to have the people of Trinidad very sensitive to a situation, and they could rise and object, and the people of Tobago just going to sit back and accept and take what is given to them whether they like it yes or no. Of course the representative for Whim/ Plymouth said he is speaking for himself and his colleagues, they see it that way but I don't think the people of Tobago see it that way. Mr. Chairman I go further, in my very letter, what I'm doing Mr. Chairman, is to show, I'm dealing now Mr. Chairman with the matter that I have been quoted saying that I have agreed. What I'm doing Mr. Chairman, is to show that I did not agree and I did not make any decision whatsoever in that meeting, and I said clearly that I have to take it to the Administrative Committee where the decisions are being made. I go on to the second to last paragraph of my letter -"it is the view of the Assembly that such a Clinic should not be housed at the proposed building because of the damaging effect to the Tourist Industry and to the reputation of the Fort as a historic and recreational site." Mr. Chairman, if it was agreed at the meeting that this building should be used for that purpose, the Minister would not have asked for
MR. CAESAR continues
I am sure they cannot go on, because time and time again this thing is burning in many of us man, burning in many of us, we just cannot hold it, we just cannot keep it cool, and I am afraid, I am very afraid. Mr. Chairman, we have mentioned the Fort, we have many Forts in Tobago to name a few, I would think of Dutch Fort, I would think of French Fort. And even though these Forts are in Tobago, nobody or many people seem not to know anything at all about them, as if they do not exist at all. But the one that stands out prominently is the Fort that today we talk about as the place where we want to have a Psychiatric Clinic. And that is the one that has all the beauty, all the charm, and all that goes to make it a place that Tobago and Tobagoniane would like to go to and see. It has often been said, that you cannot come to Tobago without seeing the Fort, if you come to Tobago and didn't see the Fort, you haven't reached Tobago at all. And then you are going to smear this Fort that we talked so much about by housing psychiatric patients there. No, Tobagonians heart would burn if a thing like that is to be done. And you see once it is done, even temporary as my colleague said, the good name of the Fort is smeared, and you can hardly behold that beauty and that charm, that good name once enjoyed would seem no longer to exist there. And so I do not see at all, I do not see for one moment, that we could ever think of housing the Unit there. The Tourist Board along with the Agriculture Division are doing a wonderful job in maintaining the beauty, and the aesthetic value of the Fort. And you go there on afternoons or evenings, and you sit there in the cool and calm of the evenings or
CHAIRMAN
Mr. Caruth
MR. CARUTH
Mr. Chairman, Honourable Members of the Assembly, would like to first of all review some of the arguments posed by the Member of Whim/Plymouth. First of all, he tried to emphasise discontentment with the motion. To my mind, I am more concerned with the mentally disturbed in Tobago more than the normal individuals, and am not saying that the mentally disturbed should be left behind. In other words, he overlooked the fact of the dangers involved by having mentally disturbed in the region, around the Fort. Another fact which he omitted, was section 21, sub—section 2 (u), which entrusted the Assembly with the responsibility for the identifica tion, preservation of places of historical interest and natural beauty, and establishment of a natural would history museum and a Tobago Trust. Now I would just like to emphasise the first part, the identification and preservation of places of historical interest and natural beauty. Apparently, again we overlook the fact that those responsible for trying to implement this decision, have surpassed or have deserted the responsibility of the Tobago House of Assembly. Again he mentioned the fact that no confrontation was....from there I mention that he might have been looking for confrontation, which I would say that there is no confrontation. Because the construction and renovation of that building was started in 1978, it was intended to be a Psychiatric Clinic, But when I listened Mr. Chairman, to Mr. Charles' contribution or the mover of the motion, the idea came up that it was very clear that there was a discussion between the Tobago House of Assembly and the Central Administrative
MR CARUTH continues
Now I'll like to vehemently express my displeasure of Central Government's illconsidered intention to site a Psychiatric Unit at the Fort George whether on a temporary basis to accommodate mentally ill patients. The behavior of the mentally disturbed is known to be unpredictable, that is, at times it can be passive, at others it borders on violence, obscenity and thus, there is a high probability that the Fort would not be exonerated from the latter. Mr. Chairman, it is my firm conviction that the persons who are responsible for such a decision are victims of some form of chronic mental disorder, and their actions must be firmly resisted. They have overlooked the fact that the Fort lends itself with its peaceful ambient to meditation, reflection, relaxation, recreation, the siting of such a clinic within its precints would detract from these tong-standing values. Who seems to think values can only be tangible. To my mind the individuals involved in formulating this decision and who now seek its implementation, bear no sense of rationality, and this action in effect highlights a profound insensitivity to our cultural heritage and experience. It is significant to note that the perpetrators of this decision seek its implementation inspite of the strong objections of the Historical Society of Trinidad and Tobago, the Tourist Board and the Tobago House of Assembly. Act No. 37 of 1980, Section 21 (2) (u). r-e House of Assembly shall undertake in Tobago "The identification and preservation of places of 'A_storical interest and natural beauty and the establishment of a natural
CHAIRMAN:
Mrs. Julien
MRS. JULIEN
Mr. Chairman, members of Honourable House, first I wish Mr. Chairman, to take strong objection to certain parts of the motion, in particular where it states that "whereas the Bodies mentioned in this resolution have registered their strongest objections to the use of this site for the purpose of treating mental patients." Mr. Chairman it was within the last three hours that I received this document, there fore I could not have been any part of the decision making or this motion. However, in the interest of my people, I wish to make my contribution in support of what my colleague has said. It appears to me that we are becoming very militant and heading for a warfare judging from the contribution here this evening. If this happens Mr. Chairman, then all of us would soon have to look for treatment as mentally ill patients. It's part or rehabilitation Mr. Chairman, in having the mentally ill treated in an area where there are people who are relatively sane. If we have our outpatient clinic where these people are going to be treated, and there are persons moving around, that is a means whereby they would be assisted in rehabilitated, and I cannot see how we sit here and seem to think that they must be totally isolated. And of course as we all know, it's going to be a temporary measure. Very often temporary may go on for over a longer period, but we do know that it is meant to be temporary, and as the mover or the motion said, that they have since taken to have another building readjusted for that purpose. Hence Mr. Chairman, and I feel , I support my
CHAIRMAN
Can I just make sure what the motion is about be it resolved that this House of Assembly call upon the appropriate Government authorities and all citizens of this country to take all necessary measures within the law to ensure the preservation of this site as one of the greatest value as a major tourist attraction, historical site and recreational outlet to the citizens of Trinidad and Tobago, particularly young children, as well as visitors to the island. I say this because I think sometimes we get out of perspective, and I will like to state quite clearly what is the motion before me on the order paper is. Mr. John.
MR. JOHN
Mr. Chairman, I stand in support of the motion so ably and lucidly moved by the Leader 01 Assembly business, and elaborated upon by Councillor J.D. Elder. If there is one member of this Assembly who should be primarily concerned about rehabilitation, it should be me as Secretary of the Society of the Rehabilitation and the Disabled, concerned with the rehabilitation of physically handicapped, we are also interested in the rehabilitation of the deaf, the blind and the mentally retarded. Also my wife has been attacked by a mad woman at the hospital two months ago, and I should be double interested• Mr. Chairman, I propose to be very brief this afternoon, because after listening to the lucid presentation of the Leader of Assembly business, and hearing all the various letters and the report of the ad hoc committee set up by you Sir, there is very little that I can add. I would like with your permission Mr. Chairman, to real a section of the Act,to show that the action of the Ministry of Health was unilateral * and I would like to quote 24 (1) and (2). 24 (1) says : "Where the co-operation of the Assembly would facilitate the carrying out of any public business which , is the responsibility of a Ministry or Department of Government or a statutory authority, that Ministry or department of Government or statutory authority shall consult the Assembly and the Assembly shall render all possible assistance. Section (2) says: "Where in order to discharge its functions the
DR. DAVIDSON continues
But what we are concerned with, is that a decision taken by this Body, a Body duly elected by the people of Tobago, is cast aside unilaterally by the Central Government and its Agent, the Ministry of Health and the Central Administrative Services, that is what is important. And I think the member for Whim/Plymouth should be concerned about the abridgement of the rule of Law in Trinidad and Tobago. Mr. Chairman, we live in a democratic society, and one of the basic terrors of democracy, is that it exists. The Leader of the motion and other members clearly stated what is the Law on this matter is. The Tobago House of Assembly is a duly elected Body of the people of Tobago, and there is another attempt on democracy which states, and I would have more to say on this, that a rejected Body, a Governmental Body, takes precedent over any agency or any none—elected Body. This principle is enshrined in our Government of Trinidad and Tobago, because the Cabinet, which is the most important Executive Body, came into direction from Parliament, which is the elected Body, and not the other way around. This is part of that principle, this is a democratic principle.
The Tobago House of Assembly is the elected Body in Tobago, and no agency of the Central Government can tell the Tobago House of Assembly what it should do or what it ought not to do, and as long as the Tobago House of Assembly has decided and identified what the Law says, that place as a place of beauty, a place of great historical value, and that it should be used for that purpose. No other agency has the right, quite apart from the Law, for in a democracy, these things must be adhered to. The Tobago House of Assembly has acted in good faith and quite proper in this matter. There has been communication between the Tobago House of Assembly and the Ministry of Health, communication between the Tobago House of Assembly and the Central Administrative Services, Tobago. It was agreed, and it is in writing, that this place is a place of historical value.
CHAIRMAN
The sitting would be suspended for ten (10) minutes. ON RESUMPTION
CHAIRMAN
Dr. Davidson
DR. DAVIDSON
Yes Mr. Chairman, as I was saying before the break, I think I was developing the point made
•
by the speaker for Whim/Plymouth, that he does not consider this exercise as being a matter of confrontation, in reply to what the seconder of the motion said. But I would like to ask the member for Whim/ Plymouth, whether he consider it or how did he interpret the action of someone? Who as Councillor John had said, inspite of correspondence, in this particular case, inspite of correspondence to the Ministry of Health, inspite of correspondence to the Permanent Secretary, Central Administrative Services, Tobago, inspite of agreement between the Ministry of Health and the House of Assembly. I would agree that it be transmitted to the Permanent Secretary, Central Administrative Services, Tobago. The Clerk of the Tobago House of Assembly is informed that they have received our correspondence, but inspite of that, they are going ahead to do what they want to do. How do we interpret such a move, if that is not confrontation, I don't know how to describe. And I want to emphasise what I did before, that when the House of Assembly took this decision, inspite of its proper attitude, when this decision was taken, that the spot was identified as the place that it is, when it decided that in the interest of serving the mental patients in Tobago, it is even prepared to pay for the refurbishing or the furnishing, or to do as I said another place to put them. This is how the House of Assembly bend backwards. We are prepared to do this for you. But we are saying that this place, being identified as a historical place, and a place of beauty, must not be used for the purpose which you intend to use
DR. DAVIDSON continues
You said, the most fundamental requirement is that the role and function of the Assembly under the House of Assembly Act be clearly defined so that necessary resources can be Mobilised. That is what is required. Cooperation obtained and the existing unhealthy state of uncertainty intimated. Not that he should have the authority to make the House of Assembly function properly because he never had that authority. Mr. Chairman, I point out this merely to show that this action is one which every citizen should resist, and every resident of Tobago ought to resist this action by the Central Government and its agent, to fly in the face of a decision taken by the Tobago House of Assembly. Because if this is not resisting, we are permitting the thin edge of deterioration of this august Body, we are permitting this Tobago House of Assembly to deteriorate to the position of the Body which it replaced that is the County Council. And the Parliament of Trinidad and Tobago gave this Tobago House of Assembly, an august position because it invested it with certain powers which the County Council never had. And if we sit here and allow this action to take place, tomorrow another action will take place, and eventually as the trite statement says, that one must be vigilant because this is the essence of members taking democracy throughout the land. This is incumbent to everyone, to look for these invasions and abridgement of democratic rights and privileges, and every time to resist strenuously, and if this is not an invasion of the rights of the Tobago House of Assembly I don't know what is.
MR. TOBY continues
Mr. Chairman, I don't speak violence, 1 stand for peace at all times, but this time I could not sit, at least I don't like to talk that much, but at this time I could not sit and allow this thought that is plaguing my mind, to go on the outside and plague the people on the outside minds also. I believe that we should get rid of it once and for all, because I heard of statements that came from our Leader, who said, that we the people of Trinidad and Tobago should make it out duty to let the right things remain right, and the wrong things be put right, and this is a case in which they are venturing into doing something which is wrong, and we the Tobago House of Assembly must make sure that that is put right. Mr. Chairman, when I think of that Fort, I think of the life of the people of Tobago. There is no form of protection we can put at that Fort to prevent mad people from attacking visitors, and also citizens, natives, of this land. No form of protection we can put at that Fort Mr. Chairman. The only form of protection we can put there, is not to put those people there. I don't know, but I believe that prevention is better than cure. And we have a motto going around these days that, when you give a man an inch, he takes a nail. So to avoid all this, we are saying don't give them an inch, because they would take a nail. And we don't want no mad people up there, and we should let the people know, and we should let our voices echo wheresover they have to be echoed, that the world will know that the Assembly will have to stand up on its own weight. I believe it is standing, it has to stand to defend this Island of Tobago, and if it refuse to stand to defend this Island of Tobago, then as some people say,
CHAIRMAN
Mr. Archer.
MR. ARCHER
Mr. Chairman, Members of the Assembly, I think if I did not make a contribution to the motion before this House, I would have in fact be shirking my responsibility that I took on the 4th of December, 1980, in this very said House. Mr. Chairman, in this regard I want to lend the strongest possible support to this motion before the House. Mr. Chairman, when I listened to members who have stated here that they are not prepared to support this motion, my mind reflect back to a little quotation that I saw in a book entitled, "The topic of the United Nations," and this quotation went like this: "Any Tyrant can compel his slaves to sing hymns in praise of liberty." Mr. Chairman, what I have seen here this afternoon is that little quotation unfolds itself before my very eyes. Because Mr. Chairman, I am sure the decision by these members not to support the motion, was not a decision taken by themselves, but it was a decision taken by someone else and handed down to them.
MR. ARCHER continues
It is impossible for any member of this House Mr. Chairman, to fail to support this motion that is before this House. For the very fact that this House of Assembly is entrusted with the responsibility by law to preserve places of natural beauty and our historical sites, and a decision was taken without the knowledge of this Assembly, to site psychiatric patients at this Fort. Mr. Chairman, any member who sits around this table and fail to reject such a move, is not fit to be sitting around this table. Mr. Chairman, because what is happening is that your responsibility is being eroded infront your very eyes, and if you contribute to that Mr. Chairman, then you are not worthy of representing people of this country. Mr. Chairman, as the Leader of Assembly business has laid this case before us, he has given us a history of what has taken place, discussions which were held, again we had objections from the Historical Society, objections from the Tourist Board, a Government Institution in this country, and objections from the Tobago House of Assembly, in which we find democratic elected representatives of the people of this country. Can we sit by and allow any agent to trample 1 /
on this Tobago House of Assembly? Mr. Chairman, in fact what we would be contributing to, or what is happening in this respect, is that the democratic process of this -
country is being trampled upon if we allow
such a thing to happen in this country. Mention was made of the Tobago House of
MR. CHARLES continues
Mr. Chairman, just permit me to just quote what the Tourist Board says in today's paper, I could see while I was reading my contribution, just permit me one minute just to read what the Tourist Board says. The Executive Director of the Tourist Board Division. This is Express, Wednesday 14th April, 1982, which is today's date, page 5. "The Tourist Board has supported the Tobago House of Assembly in its objection to the conversion of the historic Fort George site into a centre for treating mental patients. Winston Borrell, Executive Director of the Tourist Board said that accommodating patients recovering from mental illness is not compatible with a site where tourists are invited to visit..." We are not talking about visitors alone, we are talking about our citizens, our young children who go there to play, and to relax, more than tourist. "...The Board in a letter to the House of Assembly, supported a call to ensure preservation of this site as one of the greatest values as a recreational outlet to the citizens of Trinidad and Tobago, particularly young children." Citizens of Trinidad and Tobago, we are concerned about there. Particularly the young children who go there for relaxation and meditation, as a recreational outlet as well as visitors to the island. "The Fort George site includes an area and building previously occupied by the Wireless Service and has been described as a place of
"Minister's Face—to—face Meeting With A Mad Man: Health Minister, Dr. Neville Connell, has had a face—to—face meeting with an insane man at the San Fernando General Hospital. Dr. Connell was at the time holding a marathon late—night meeting with medical staff. He saw the insane man swinging a life water drip stand wildly at hospital staffers and security guards, in Ward 17 of the hospital. The Minister admitted to TARGET: "It is a very sad case.' But he denied that he had to run for his own safety until the mad man was subdued by security guards. Dr. Connell said: "I summoned the police to take away the man to the St. Anne Hospital." The incident took place on the night of March 12."
Mr. Chairman, you see signs and wonders, coincidental signs and wonders. While they were there Mr. Chairman, with their stupidity and foolishness making their decision to destroy that place by putting mad people where the entire population and young people go there, a mad man nearly killed him at the San Fernando General Hospital. You cannot get away from this, you cannot, you cannot afford to be doing these things in a Country like this, it going to fall on you. Mr. Chairman, I continue. "Dr. Connell said, the flare—up was between 9.00 and 10.00 p.m., but nurses who witnessed the incident felt it might be closer to 2.00 a.m. One nurse said: 'The Minister came into the Ward with a doctor attached to the Ward for mentally sick people. The mad man jumped off
MR. CHARLES continues
And Mr. Chairman, I know that somehow, somewhere, sometime, very soon, these members today who are here opposing this motion, and I hope before when we are taking the oath, they are going to put their hands down, let their conscience speak, don't let people speak for you, when we brought the Tobago Development Plan here, when we explainer to you, we thought that you were good children coming around and you voted in favour unanimously, you cannot allow people from outside to manipulate you. What we are concerned about in Tobago an - we have been saying it all the time, the people who have taken this decision, why are these people not coming to live side by side there? They take the decision, they run miles away they are not coming here, and then have our Tobagonians, strong Tobagonians, echoing the cause of betrayers of this country. Mr. Chairman I would just like to finally remind them of what this motion is asking for - (1) is, we are not against providing a proper Psychiatric service for the mentally disturbed. At least we are committed to that. (2) is t at that Fort George compound as it is expressed in the motion, is of the greatest historical beauty and value to us in this
c o u n t r y,
and we are saying why put them there, this is all the motion is saying, why put them in the Fort.
We have other places to put them, better places to put them, why put them there? That place can be used for a multiplicity of things, why you want to restrict it to the use of putting mental patients, they want to destroy you and the Fort even more. Are we blind? Mr. Chairman, simple, this motion says "that this House of Assembly call upon the appropriate Government authorities and all citizens of this country to take all necessary measures within the law." Are they opposing? They don't want to take all necessary measures within the law Mr. Chairman, or are they saying that the Fort is not a historical site which the law assigns to us to preserve? When you oppose the motion, that is what you are saying - is either the Fort is not a historical site so we have no right to preserve it, or you are saying we are not respecting the law as regard that. This is what opposing this motion mean. And Mr. Chairman, I don't think they mean in totality to oppose the motion, because when I listened to them, they are saying, look, we agree that the Psychiatric Clinic can be resited, the Assembly should at least, this is the contribution of the Leader, the member for Whim/Plymouth when he said we agree, we could put them there for five months and refurbish the place, he is in agreement that up there is not the best place to put the Psychiatric Clinic, it must be refurbished. So if they were inside the hospital for twenty-five years, is there any problem keeping them for three or five months, and we put them in their permanent home: We don't have the situation like we have in San Fernando, when we put them and they get accustom to San Fernando they run back in San Fernando and destroy
CHAIRMAN
Honourable members, I'm going to read quite slowly the motion which is before the House. It is this motion that is before the House and no other — Whereas the Tobago House of Assembly Act AO. 37 of 1980 assigns to the Assembly the functions set out in the Act as follows: Section 21 (2) (u) "The identification and preservation of places of historical interest and natural beauty and the establishment of a natural history museum and a Tobago Trust." And whereas the Fort (Fort George) including the area and building formerly used as the wireless station has been identified by the Historical Society of Trinidad and Tobc.co, the Tourist Board of Trinidad and Tobago and the Tobago House of Assembly as a place of historical interest, natural beauty and as a major tourist attraction, and whereas the bodies mentioned in this resolution have registered their strongest objections to the use of this site for the purpose of treating mental patients, be it resolved that this House of Assembly call upon the appropriate Government authorities and all citizens of this country to take all necessary measures within the law to ensure the preservation of this site as one of the greatest value as a major tourist attraction, historical site and recreational outlet to the citizens of Trinidad and Tobago, particularly young children, as well as visitors to the island." Those in favor will you say, aye,
MEMBERS
Aye
CHAIRMAN
Those against? We have a division. Mr. Charles.
MR. CHARLES
Aye.
CHAIRMAN
Dr. Davidson.
DR. DAVIDSON
Aye.
CHAIRMAN
Mr. Caesar.
MR. CAESAR
Aye
CHAIRMAN
Mr. Jones.
MR. JONES
Aye
CHAIRMAN
Mr. Archer
MR. ARCHER
Aye
CHAIRMAN
Mr. Toby
MR. TOBY
Aye
CHAIRMAN
Mr. Mc. Kenzie
MR. MC. KENZIE
Against
CHAIRMAN
Mr. Denoon
MR. DENOON
Against.
CHAIRMAN
Mr. Callender
MR. CALLENDER
Against
CHAIRMAN
Mrs. Julien
MRS. JULIEN
Against
CHAIRMAN
Mr., Caruth
MR. CARUTH
Aye
CHAIRMAN
Mr. John
MR. JOHN
Aye.
CHAIRMAN
Dr. Elder
DR. ELDER
Aye
CHAIRMAN
Members, the results are ten/four, four against. The motion is carried.
MR. CHARLES
Mr. Chairman, after such an historic debate, it gives me great pleasure to move that his House do now adjourn to a date to be fixed by the Chairman.
CHAIRMAN
Honourable members, the motion is that this House do now adjourn to a date to be fixed by the Chairman. ADJOURNMENT TAKEN