Unrevised Hansard- 3rd Sitting (2017-2021)

Announcements TOBAGO HOUSE OF ASSEMBLY THURSDAY, APRIL 27, 2017

The House met at 1.30 p.m.

PRAYERS [MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER in the Chair] ANNOUNCEMENTS SECONDARY EDUCATION ASSESSMENT (SEA)

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER:

I am sure that the Members will

support my wishing every success, on their behalf and my own, to the children who are poised to take the Secondary Education Assessment (SEA) National Test in one (1) week.

Even at this tender age, they must be taught that beyond the examinations, education is an essential tool for consistently making right and reasonable choices which, later in life contribute to a stronger democracy, the cornerstone of all Parliaments.

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Children, always remember to be grateful to your parents and teachers. On behalf of the Members of the Assembly, Tobagonians and myself, know that we all believe in you, we are praying for you, and we are confident that you will do your best.

Announcements (Cont’d) MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER (Cont’d

APPOINTMENT OF MEMBERS TO SESSIONAL SELECT COMMITTEES

In keeping with the Tobago House of Assembly Standing Orders 73 Subsection 1, and 74 to 80, and after recommendations from both the Leader of Assembly Business and the Minority Leader, the following Sessional Select Committees are been appointed:-.

Standing Orders Committee, which is responsible for reporting to this Assembly on all matters relating to the Standing Orders.

STANDING ORDERS COMMITTEE

 Presiding Officer (Chairman);  Deputy Presiding Officer and Assistant Secretary in the Office of the Chief Secretary;

3 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m.  Assistant Secretary of Community Development, Enterprise and Labour, and Member for Bethel/Mt Irvine;  Assistant Secretary in the Office of the Chief Secretary and Member for Plymouth/Golden Lane; and  Councillor Dr. Faith .B. YIsrael The House Committee which is responsible for considering and advising the Presiding Officer of matters connected with the comfort and Announcements (Cont’d) MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER (Cont’d)

convenience of Members and will be expected to report to this Assembly every four (4) months, on the Minutes of the proceedings.

HOUSE COMMITTEE

 Leader of Assembly Business (Chairman);  Deputy Chief Secretary, and Secretary of Finance and the Economy;  Secretary of Settlements, Urban Renewal and Public Utilities;  Assistant Secretary of Infrastructure and the Environment, and Member for Providence/Mason Hall/Moriah;

4 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m.  Member for L’anse Fourmi/Speyside/Parlatuvier The Committee of Privileges is responsible for any matter which appears to affect the power of privileges of the Assembly and will report to the Assembly as the need arises.

COMMITTEE OF PRIVILEGES

 Presiding Officer (Chairman);  Secretary of Food Production, Forestry and Fisheries;  Secretary of Sports and Youth Affairs;  Secretary of Tourism, Culture and Transportation; and  Minority Leader Announcements (Cont’d) MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER (Cont’d)

The Public Accounts Committee under the Assembly Standing Order 77 Subsection 1 is responsible for examining, considering and reporting on the Accounts of the Assembly including Public Expenditure, Auditor General Reports and any other such accounts referred by the Assembly or under any law.

The composition of this Committee is guided by the House of Representatives Standing Order, 98 Subsection 5 which states:

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“As far as possible, Cabinet Ministers (and in this case, Executive Council Members) should not be Members of the Committees established under Paragraph 2, 3 and 4, where the Public Accounts Committee falls into this category”.

PUBLIC ACCOUNTS COMMITTEE

 Minority Leader (Chairman);  Deputy Presiding Officer and Assistant Secretary in the Office of the Chief Secretary;  Assistant Secretary of Infrastructure and the Environment, Member for Providence/Mason Hall/Moriah;  Assistant Secretary in the Office of the Chief Secretary, Member for Plymouth/Golden Lane;

Announcements (Cont’d) MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER (Cont’d)

 Assistant Secretary of Community Development, Enterprise and Labour; Member for Bethel/Mt. Irvine

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The Code of Conduct is a Special Select Committee appointed by the Order of the Assembly with a Motion carried at the first sitting, responsible for developing and recommending of Code of Conduct for public officials who are Members of the Assembly.

SPECIAL SELECT COMMITTEE

    

Leader of Assembly Business (Chairman); Secretary of Health, Wellness and Family Development; Secretary of Community Development, Enterprise and Labour; Member for L'Fourmi/Speyside/Parlatuvier; and Councillor Dr. Faith B. Yisrael

The Regulations Committee will be appointed at a later date as the need arises.

This Committee is responsible for considering all such

regulations as under the authority of any law to be laid before the Assembly.

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER:

Secretary of Finance and the

Economy.

PAPER LAID

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Tobago House of Assembly Monthly Budget Report as at the end of February, 2017. [Secretary of Finance and the Economy (Hon. Joel Jack)].

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: Minority Leader.

PRIVATE BUSINESS MOTION REQUEST FOR THE EXECUTIVE COUNCIL TO REPORT ON ACTIONS THAT MAY BE TAKEN WITHOUT PRIOR APPROVAL

MR. WATSON DUKE (Minority Leader): Madam Presiding Officer, as I stand on my feet in this august House called, “The Tobago House of Assembly,” I must say I feel privileged to speak on behalf of sixty thousand (60,000) citizens who happen to reside in the isles of Tobago and is somewhat concerned.

I have been advised to move this Motion by the people of Tobago and I will read it so that my colleagues on the other side would hear, Madam Presiding Officer.

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"WHEREAS the Minority must follow adequately the responsibilities and activities of all Divisions in the THA to help keep the public informed; AND WHEREAS the Tobago House of Assembly Standing Order 77 (1) instructs the Minority to chair the Public Accounts Committee in its

duty to examine, appraise and constructively critique the policies of

the

Executive Council and its methods of administrating the Tobago House of Assembly; AND WHEREAS owing to Section 34(3) of the THA Act, the Executive

Council can act without prior approval of the Assembly

subject to Section 34(2) which mandates that "In the exercise of their Request for the Executive Council to Report on Actions that may be taken without Prior Approval (Cont’d) MR. W. DUKE (Cont’d)

power, the Members of the Executive Council shall be individually and

collectively responsible to the Assembly;” BE IT RESOLVED that this House support the request for the Executive

Council to report on the following actions that may be

9 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m. taken without prior approval; off-budget expenditure; expenditure drawn on the contingency account of fifty thousand dollars TT ($50,000TT) or more; the leasing or distribution of THA/State Lands; contracts or consultancy exceeding one hundred thousand TT ($100,000 TT) in value; contracted employment exceeding twenty thousand dollars TT ($20,000 TT) per month; appointments to State/THA Boards; the quarterly income and expenditure of companies incorporated by or on behalf of the THA that receives subventions or policy directives from the Executive Council; rental or leasing of properties for use by the THA that exceeds fifty thousand dollars TT ($50,000 TT) per month; BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that report(s) of such actions be presented to members of this House through the Public Accounts Committee in writing every quarter.�

Madam Presiding Officer, I must say that I am happy to see the gallery filled today. First time since our Inauguration we have seen such a full gallery. It is testimony to the fact that as I stand here today, I speak on behalf of these people. They are concerned about the level of accountability within the THA. It is rudimentary that the House of Assembly comprise both the Executive Council and I will call it "the Minority Council" because we are no bench on this side. This is a Council on this side.

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Request for the Executive Council to Report on Actions that may be taken without Prior Approval (Cont’d)

So, we have the Executive Council and the Minority Council but often times, Madam Presiding Officer, the “marish and the parish” is dragged into the mud. The Executive Council along with the Minority Council is dragged into the mud whenever there is a lack of accountability.

People do not say the Executive Council is not accounting, they say, “The THA is not accounting.” We want to draw the line in the sand today.

We want to make it absolutely clear today, by moving this Motion today or presenting this Motion to the House that my colleagues on that side, the Executive Council headed by Assemblyman Kelvin Charles must understand their fiduciary, their social contract to this nation goes beyond having a posh office, driving a two digit vehicle, jumping on a plane and having escorts, it comes down to meeting the people where the need is at.

This Motion is about good governance. One of the pillars of good governance is, “Accountability.” So, I wish to establish even here and now in our preamble, the preamble of the Constitution. It says that:

11 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m. “The operation of the Economic System within Trinidad and Tobago should result in the material resources of the community being so distributed as to serve the common good.

In simple language, what the Constitution tries to encapsulate is the philosophy that the resources of this nation should be used and equitably distributed to the benefit of all in this nation without discrimination. I say to some of my colleagues here, there is no such thing as a town man cannot run town; that should never be, or a country cannot run town. What should be is, there must be one Tobago. There must be no rural Tobago and no urban Tobago; there must be no place that using flambeau and those that are flipping the switch, putting on the lights, Tobago must develop. So, as we ask these questions about State Lands, who have been enjoying the benefits of State Lands in this country? Who are those persons? Are they friends of the political Administration that is now holding the Executive Council?

Who are those persons working for twenty thousand plus monthly contract?

Who are those persons? Are they party hacks or sycophants that came from or supported the current political Administration that sits as the Executive Council? Who are those persons? We are talking accountability; we are talking about good governance. We want to find out.

Every time you dip into the Contingency Fund and you remove more than fifty thousand dollars ($50,000.00) TT dollars, where did that money go? What was the basis for it? As I try to bring these points home, I wish to focus on a few areas that I think will benefit all of us. I am saying today

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Madam Presiding Officer, and it must be remembered and documented in these books, that the Tobago House of Assembly (THA) is not the Executive Council.

The Tobago House of Assembly (THA) represents both the

Executive Council and the Minority Council.

So, I was shocked this morning as I went to the Library downstairs Members Library. The faces that I saw on the wall, were persons belonging to one political organization. I ask myself, is this the House of Assembly? I ask myself the question.

The House of Assembly (in accordance with

Section 34 of the Tobago House of Assembly Act) is the place where each and every one of my colleagues on that side Madam Presiding Officer, must give an account for their stewardship, be it collectively or individually. They must give an account! I ask myself as I sat here a few moments ago, why they were not saying anything?

I looked at the Order of Business, and I am seeing here, there is a place for these Secretaries to speak. There is a place. When you look at (k) on the Order Paper, it says here: “Statements by Secretaries or Assistant Secretaries”.

But what I heard was an echo in the Chamber when the Clerk of the House asked if anybody had a statement to make.

Is it that since the year began and they took over office on that side, that nobody was hired beyond twenty thousand dollars ($20,000.00)? That no State lands were given away?

Could it be that it is not going to

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Contingency Fund? Could it be that they made no decision at all on any single thing and implemented nothing? Could it be that? They were all silent.

Just the other day Madam Presiding Officer, I sat at home and I was looking at the Television Tube and I recognized something that was quite distasteful, but I came to the reality that is governance on that side. I saw a Media Briefing held by the Executive Council on that side. At the Media Briefing, reporters were allowed to ask questions immediately and they got response immediately. Yet, when we come to this House, there is a book that puts a “gag order” on us, telling us we must submit a question twentyone (21) days in advance, (am I correct on that) in order to get an answer from them.

Something has to be wrong. The law chumps this book.

[Demonstrating] What the law says, what the Tobago House of Assembly Act says under Section 34: it says: “That you must give account, either individually or collectively…”

But they do not give account, and they said account not to us on this side, but to the House. That is why these people are here today. They have come to listen with their own ears and see with their own eyes the level of non accounting (I want to say) that takes place here.

I was saying

“unaccountability”, but that may sound too pretty. The level of no reporting, no accounting. Why? If I could have asked the Honourable Assemblyman for Spring Garden/Whim/Union/Mary’s Hill (SWUM) a question, I would

14 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m. have asked him. Why were your Secretaries silent during (k) on the Order Paper, Statement by Secretaries or Assistant Secretaries? Certainly, they have been busy.

I have seen the Assemblyman for Canaan/Bon Accord trying to keep fit, he has put that on some Facebook thing. That is what they do, keeping fit. That is what they are into – games. I have seen people on that side responded to questions asked by the Media. No twenty-one (21) days! But when we come to this House, this House that empowers us by the Law and we asked questions, we are told you have to wait twenty-one (21) days. It does not obtain in Trinidad. Something could happen in Trinidad and they ask the question same time, and it has been reported on by those of the ruling party. I am on the issue… [Interruption] MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: Minority Leader, you might be considered to be misleading the House at this time. The Standing Orders are clear where questions are concerned and where urgent questions are concerned. Please be mindful.

MR. W. DUKE: Madam Presiding Officer, I thank you for that. But I know that when I say that, when we write questions. The last time Assemblyman Farley Augustine attempted to move a Motion of Public Importance, (Am I correct Brother Farley?) and it was said it is not very urgent.

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MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: Minority Leader, a decision was made by the Presiding Officer, at that time, I would like you to be mindful of the Standing Orders where those are concern.

MR. W. DUKE: Madam Presiding Officer, I wish to do so. My Colleagues on that side for a very long time, they have not been giving an account to the Tobago people. This motion today is to make it absolutely clear to those on that side about good governance.

You see, good governance is not concerned Madam Presiding Officer about whether the decision is right or wrong or whether the outcome is good or bad. Good governance is concerned about the process and the involvement of all people in the process. Good governance would have prevented us from asking these questions. Had there been good governance in the House, we would not have had to come here and ask for persons receiving salary beyond twenty thousand dollars ($20,000.00) or who has been receiving State Lands or these off-budget expenditure, we would not have to ask that question - simply because they would have understood Section 34 of the THA Act that says, they must report. The Executive Council they can take action, they can take action without prior approval of the House and we are the House here. However, they must report.

Three (3) months now and there have been no report. As I was preparing for this, I want to show you the inconsistencies of this side why it is difficult to even sit on this side, it is painful to sit on this side and see the level of unaccountability that is passing on that side.

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I recall the former Honourable Gary Melville, who is no longer here in this House, Councillor Gary Melville in 2011 spoke about the Studley Park Quarry and he said the Quarry had the potential to make one hundred and twenty million dollars ($120M) per year. He further stated that that Studley Park Quarry is under renovation - some two hundred million dollars ($200m.) and they will expand it, they will fix the Studley Park Pier so a barge could come in, bringing materials and taking materials out. He spoke of that. He spoke of working two shifts at the Quarry.

Madam Presiding Officer, lets read for today. Today, we have the Leader of the Executive Council saying to this nation on his own, without the authority of this House, without reporting to this House that they will privatize the Quarry. We do not know what are the salaries of those persons across in the Quarry, what they will be like, we do not know, what is this plan for this Quarry. They will privatize the Quarry and form some Studley Park Quarries Limited - a Limited Liability Company. I am concerned about these things. What are the kind of jobs will be there. Decisions like that ought to be reported in this House not on the Media. They ought to be discussed in this House.

That is accountability.

You see, good

accountability places upon the Executive Council an obligation to report to this House, they must report to this House that is Section 34. Every decision that they take must be reported to this House that is the law. I see they smile as if it is a strange thing across there. They must report to this House every decision taken and implemented. This is the underpinning of the Motion you know – accountability. So you must report all decisions to this House.

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These decisions must be explained and in the event where there are devastating consequences you must be answerable for those consequences.

I heard one million dollars ($1m) was spent repairing the Quarry, the next day the Quarry shut down again. Was there any explanation, was anyone made answerable in this House? We are the custodians of the resources in Tobago.

Good governance must also be transparent.

It means that the

decisions taken by the Executive Council must be decisions that can be followed from beginning to end. It means that the ordinary citizen who is sitting in this gallery today, they should be able to come to the same conclusion as the Executive Council if they are exposed to the same facts, the same Councils, the same legislation. If they are exposed to the same information they would come to the same conclusion. We are talking about the process here. It must be transparent.

I have heard the Secretary for Health (she is not here today) saying that there are some sixty-five-plus persons employed at the TRHA (Tobago Regional Health Authority) and they are going to put them on month to month contract.

I have to learn that through the tube, through the

Television. Why are those things not brought to the House? I have to look at the Television again and heard that it cost ten million dollars ($10m) to pave the road from Rockly Vale Junction to Bishops and the road is in need

18 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m. of paving, a patch job cannot be done. I have to listen that on the Television tube there is no reporting taking place here.

Secretaries are coming here to this House and they are not giving any report. So, I am saying maybe you should strike out from the Order Paper, Order of Business, (k) Statements by Secretaries or Assistant Secretaries.

Because their silence is so loud it is deafening and troubling. All they do on that side is to engage in conjecture not interested on the point we make on this side.

Madam Presiding Officer, good governance must follow the rule of law. We just did not dream walk ourselves into here we were elected, all of us, except the Councillors of course, we were elected and we are here on behalf of Tobago. We are guided by the Tobago House of Assembly Act where all of us have a role to play.

The role of the Minority Leader in the Act is, I must not support the Chief Secretary – that is my role. It says that clearly in the Act. It says, the man that command the most support of those persons who do not support the Chief Secretary and we do not support the Chief Secretary. They are very clear about that, very clear.

Because in a democracy, in good governance

there must be those who provide an alternative view. At no point in time could you have one hundred percent (100%) of the persons voting in an election voting one way. There will always be persons voting the other way, even if you win all the seats there will be persons voting the other way.

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Hence, good democracy is built upon the foundation that there must be for and against. There must be a “yes” and a “no” and ideas must be placed before this House. Nothing must be secret. Everything must be challenged and left open to be examined by the public. Unfortunately, the Executive Council has been running a secret society.

A society where secrecy has

been institutionalized and the only way we learn something as the Minority Council on this side, is by watching Channel 5 News on an evening time to hear what they have to say. What about the rule of law?

What about the

law that states in the Tobago House of Assembly, Act No. 40 of 1996? Let me get my Act out. I will quote it for you. Section (2) of 34 simple states: All Assemblymen in the Executive Council or Secretaries are answerable “individually and collectively” to the House of Assembly.

This is the House.

Section 34 (3) is a little more specific, and I feel that this Clause speaks of good governance. Learn the word, “good governance”. Section 34 speaks of it directly. It says: While the Executive Council may take action without prior knowledge of the Assembly.

But what is hidden there, is the fact that while you take it you must report it.

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Hence we have the Order of Business in this particular format.

Question to Secretaries, but if you do not know what they are doing, you cannot ask right.

They are running a secret society across there that

institutionalize secrecy, so we cannot ask no questions.

Statement by

Secretaries or Assistant Secretaries – none! No reporting at all. Personal Explanation – none! No personal explanation at all. I said to this House through the Presiding Officer that when one speaks about accountability you must report. Reporting is important. They must be ready to explain what you have done, and they must be answerable for the consequences of your decision. That is accountability.

When one speaks about transparency, they must be able to follow their decision. You must say to a reasonable thinking person, if they are in my position and this Quarry could make one hundred and twenty million dollars ($120m.) per year. What would I do? Do I put it in the hands of a private man or would I come up with a strategic plan to restructure the quarry and make it functional; make it a state owned Organization. There are some state organizations that are doing well. First Citizen’s Bank (FCB) state owned.

It is doing well. There was another Company again that was doing well; about four (4) Companies owned by the State are doing well based on the last report that came into the Government on Finances. No accountability!

I sat in my gallery one morning and I heard a truck blasting, PNM coming. I swear it was the coming of the Saviour, because the way the man heralds the cry, “PNM coming” that sounded like God himself was coming.

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I stood to my feet Madam Presiding Officer, (I am going somewhere with this) and I heard someone exclaim on the truck, “we are one”, I said what, it sounds like a numbers game. I began to make my way towards the road, I heard someone else exclaimed, “Let’s go further”. It is only now, that I recognize that “Massa bull and Massa cow”, same thing, same khaki pants.

No accountability!

For the last sixteen (16) years Tobagonians have been distressed over the lack of accountability. Every year fancy promises! Last year as the former Chief Secretary made his last Independence Day Address, he spoke of a Moriah Health Centre that will be built starting in three (3) months and a Roxborough Health Facility that will start soon thereafter, but I am living in Moriah I can tell you, no Moriah Health Facility ain’t start yet. I know that the Leader of Government Business is a guy who was born in Moriah.

He was born there, he no longer lives there. He get rich and switch as Patrice say, “He is a big boy now”. Move out of Moriah. The people of Moriah are still struggling for that Health Centre.

Where is the

accountability? Where is the explanation? Why are they not answerable for carrying the people’s hopes up and then dropping it down? Where is the transparency? I know you all are one, so do not tell me who is new and different, you all are one, and you all have planned to take it further which means if it was three (3) months by the time you come it should have been done in one (1) month. They planned to take it further. But I must say – same old khaki pants. No accountability!

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The people in Roxborough were promised a Health Facility. I am not seeing the Secretary of Health today, she knows why she did not come. But all that they are telling the people of Roxborough now, we will extend the hours of Health Care to 8.00 p.m. It still does not cut it. What Tobagonians need is this - they want a Primary Health Care System that allows them to get sick on Saturday and Sunday, because sickness does not pause on Saturday and Sunday and start back Monday. Sickness does not end on 4.00 p.m. in the afternoon. They want their Health Care System one which you promised them, that will open at 6.00 a.m. in the morning, (and you can take some notes on that side, it may be beneficial to your career) and closes at 10.00 p.m. in the night. You promised the Tobago people that. But they are coming to tell the people in Roxborough after they were promised a hospital, by this same Administration that they are going to open the health centre to 8.00 p.m. in the night, but it is closing on Saturday and Sunday. No accountability, no transparency, no participation of the people in the decision making process.

They boasted during election time Roxborough had nothing short of twelve (12) excavators. In fact, every village in Tobago had twelve (12) excavators. I was told that the Super Fast Galicia had to move very fast because the amount of excavators that came from Trinidad not the Badge, the Super Fast Galicia to Tobago was more than one hundred (100). They promised the people that, that they will cut every road for them, fix this. As election done and they leave Roxborough and they lost, they pulled the Backhoe out, nothing else to fix in Roxborough again. They block around a

23 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m. place in Roxbroough for the Administrative Complex – no accountability.

Madam Presiding Officer, I take my seat.

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: Leader of Assembly Business. [Desk thumping] LEADER OF ASSEMBLY BUSINESS AND SECRETARY OF INFRASTRUCTURE, QUARRIES AND THE ENVIRONMENT (Hon. Kwesi Des Vignes): [Desk thumping] Thank you, Madam Presiding Officer.

Please excuse me because I seem to have lost my voice just a bit.

Madam Presiding Officer, I find it to be ironic that we are here today to speak about good governance when in fact, the Minority Leader himself did not even support the call for a Code of Conduct. It is sad and ironic, it is bothering unhypocritical.

Madam Presiding Officer, the reality is, the Minority Leader is clear in his attempt to continuously mislead this House and I am happy that you would have taken leave of your seat to interrupt him on numerous occasions when he continued to do so without shame whatsoever.

Madam Presiding Officer, the reality is in researching this Motion. I started looking for different types of phobias because some people (and I am sorry that Councillor Carrington is not here to help me with this) tend to have mental disorders or even disorders that we are not prepared to deal

24 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m. with. For example, alethaphobia - the fear of the truth. It seems to me that Members from the Minority may be suffering from some of that. At no time as the Chief Secretary of the Tobago House of Assembly, the Honourable Kelvin Charles at no time has he said that the Studley Park Quarry will be privatized. That is a lie! It is an absolute lie! Studley Park Quarries Limited ... [Interruption] MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: Leader of Assembly Business, please be mindful of the Parliamentary language accepted in this House.

HON. K. DES VIGNES: My apologies, Madam Presiding Officer. It is an untruth. As a matter of fact, Madam Presiding Officer, it is an alternative fact. [Desk thumping] Madam Presiding Officer, the realities, the Member for Belle Garden/East/Roxborough/Delaford continue to mislead us about excavators and so on. I mean, it is sad and as a Moriah man I take umbridge that some people living in big houses in Moriah, who all of a sudden know about Moriah could come and try to tell me a Moriah Man about Moriah. [Desk thumping] That is absurd.

Madam Presiding Officer, we are talking about good governance and when I go to Ten Chains and to Lammy Road and when I go up to Windsor the people of these areas have not seen their representative since. They have

25 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m. not seen their Representative since. [Desk thumping] Let us talk about good governance. Start to do your work. We are here working day in day out.

Many nights the Secretary for Tourism, Culture and Transportation calls me 11.00 p.m - are you still in your Office - yes. Are you still in your Office – yes! Doctor Carrington - 5.00 o'clock in the morning, messages, Members, friends, colleagues, she is already at work. We are working. Time to settle down and do your work. It is time to do your work, do not gallivant on Radio you are still in campaign, people are still in campaign mood, campaigning for the elections in November.

What is happening,

representation is not part-time. Some of us are calling for boycotts – fail!

Some of us are calling for days of resistance – fail! Some of us are calling to boycott Jazz – fail! As a matter of fact, my eyes made four (4) with one of the Minority Members just last night at Jazz at the Waterfront - excellent show. [Desk thumping] Even further in Speyside on Sunday when I was walking around the grounds, I walked on the grounds for most of the night with my umbrella, I had a great time I bought three (3) dashikis, (great festival) when I went up into the VIP low and behold the Member for the area was there enjoying the VIP wining and dining with his friends. [Desk thumping] He had a good time. Jazz is good to them.

So Day of Resistance – failed! Day on the Port – failed! Boycott Jazz - failed and this Motion low and behold bound to fail too. [Desk thumping]

26 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m.

Madam Presiding Officer, democracy is not a joke and we would have said this from day one. As a principle of democracy the majority rules. And that is what we subscribed to. That is why we are here today because democracy has done its work, almost does not count in democracy - just glass the Member of the Minority bench.Ten (10), five (5), a hundred (100) votes. It does not matter. Almost, does not count. It does not make you an Assemblyman. The reality is, there is direct or indirect democracy, today, we have indirect democracy. Let us face it, sixty-five thousand (65,000) cannot fit into this room to make decisions. That is why we are here! That is why we are so empowered by the Tobago House of Assembly Act of 1996.

Madam Presiding Officer, it is a disappointment that we are here today working as hard as we are, and the Minority refuses to do their job.

The Honourable Presiding Officer stood here today and indicated that the Minority Leader would be chairing the Public Accounts Committee (PAC).

The Public Accounts Committee has a critical role to play, but it seems that the Minority does not understand this.

This Motion today Madam Presiding Officer, is conceived for mediocrity; it is borne out of absurdity; it is molded in impracticality and clothed in just plain laziness. It is nothing short of languorous, it succeeds only in being onerous, odious and contemptuous all at once. All things being equal, Madam Presiding Officer, this vagrant Motion should have been aborted from the start‌ [Interruption]

27 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m.

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: Leader of Assembly Business are you willing to give way?

MR. W. DUKE: Madam Presiding Officer, on a point of Order. I rise on a point of Order to advise the Assemblyman according to Standing Orders 45: “Subject to the provisions of these Standing Orders, debate upon any motion, Bill or Assembly law or amendment shall be relevant to such motion, Bill, Assembly Law or amendment and a Member shall confine his observations to the subject under discussion”.

I do not know if it is an English Class. My brother is very verbose and is going all over the place, but he is not confining his debate…

[Interruption] HON. CHIEF SECRETARY: On a Point of Order, Madam Presiding Officer. Madam Presiding Officer, the Member has to state his point of Order and allow you to rule. It is not another debate.

MR. W. DUKE: You still feel you are the Presiding Officer? [Laughter] You still feel you are the Presiding Officer across there. She is the Presiding Officer eh!

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: Leader of Assembly Business can you continue please.

28 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m.

Request for the Executive Council to Report on Actions that may be taken without Prior Approval (Cont’d)

HON. K. DES VIGNES: Madam Presiding Officer, thank you and let me apologize to the Honourable Members of this August House and the Members of the gallery for that untimely, irrelevant disturbance. Madam Presiding Officer, before I was rudely interrupted, I proposed to amend the Motion. In the first preamble: “WHEREAS the Minority… at this time Madam Presiding Officer I would like to delete the words, “…must follow up until informed” and include the word : ‘s after Minority role is not clearly define by the Tobago House of Assembly Act of 1996; In the second part of the preamble: AND WHEREAS the Tobago House of Assembly Standing Orders 77…

Madam Presiding Officer, this is a woeful error in the Motion after we had to sit through an entire book report on the first occasion. As a matter of fact, Standing Orders 77 (2)

29 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m. … instructs… and not one (1), two (2).

Request for the Executive Council to Report on Actions that may be taken without Prior Approval (Cont’d) HON. K. DES VIGNES (Cont’d)

So we have to make that change, …instructs the Minority to chair the Public Accounts Committee in its duty…

Again, Madam Presiding Officer, a deliberate attempt to mislead this House as outlined in Standing Order 77 (1) which says: …to examine, consider and report on, That is what it says, you could read it again.

Standing Order 77 (1) states very clearly: “…That the Public Accounts Committee has the responsibility to examine, consider and report on: (a)

the accounts showing the appropriations of sums granted by the Assembly to meet the public expenditure of Tobago;

(b)

Such other accounts as may be referred to the Committee or under law; and

30 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m. (c)

the report of the Auditor General on any such accounts.”

Before I continue, Madam Presiding Officer, the Third part of the preamble stands as it is. Finally there is some fact.

Request for the Executive Council to Report on Actions that may be taken without Prior Approval (Cont’d) HON. K. DES VIGNES (Cont’d)

In the main motion Madam Presiding Officer, I proposed that after, “…request for the” There should be an omission up until the end of the paragraph at month. So that the paragraph will now read: “BE IT RESOLVED that this House support the request for the appointment of the Public Accounts Committee as mandated by Standing Orders 77”.

That being said Madam Presiding Officer, the final part of the Motion is redundant and superfluous and should be also deleted.

HON. J. JACK: Madam Presiding Officer, I stand in support and second the amended motion as moved by Leader of Assembly Business.

HON. K. DES VIGNES: Thank you, my good colleague Deputy Chief Secretary, and Assemblyman Joel Jack.

31 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m.

Madam Presiding Officer, we took an Oath of Office, we have a responsibility. We take that responsibility very seriously on this majority side. In the time that it takes to post and gallery on Facebook, in the time that it takes to get your hair done to go out, Madam Presiding Officer, do the job that the people have assigned us. Do the job for which you have taken an oath of office.

You are speaking about, “Accountability” and as the Chief Secretary says on numerous occasions, business as unusual. I think that we have been more than accountable continuously. The fact that we are speaking about accountability is almost laughable here or at least the Minority Leader is speaking about it. I know of some Trade Union where accountability seems to be a main concern of the members.

As a matter of fact, I know of some Youth Organizations that members of the Minority bench were a part of, where the members of the minority was struggling as the President when the organization was defunct and dormant. The young people are now working to get that organization up and running again… [Interruption] MR. W. DUKE: On a point of Order.

32 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m.

HON. K. DES VIGNES: Madam Presiding Officer, I continue. The reality is as we speak about accountability in here, let us not be hypocrites. We are accountable to the people of Tobago. We have a job to do and we take it seriously. We have been doing significant work in the Division of Infrastructure, Quarries and the Environment. For example, already:  We are speaking about the Quarry producing for the first time in some months; we have done that;  We are talking about starting a bridge as we plan to ease the traffic on the highway;  We are talking about the fact that we move to start phasing out polystyrene products, Styrofoam on the island and bringing in alternatives on the island;  We got air quality monitoring on the island;  We have started bringing down noise pollution in Tobago; the work of the Assembly continues. There are many initiatives.

I must applaud the Member for Scarborough/Calder Hall along with the Member for Bethel/Mt. Irvine. They have been all around Tobago engaging Tobagonians about the benefits to be had from many of the Assembly Led Programmes.

We have been engaging Tobagonians one and

one, night in, night out. Sometimes, I wonder where Mrs. Jack gets the

33 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m. energy from, my former form teacher.

Madam Presiding Officer, I think

we must applaud their efforts as we continue to work.

Madam Presiding Officer, as I take rest, as I wrap up, I just want to emphasize - the Minority Leader has a responsibility first and foremost to the electorate of that electoral district. Represent the people, it is a serious mandate, one not to be taken lightly or carelessly discharged.

The Public Accounts Committee as well has a serious responsibility.

And the fact that you are here trying to obfuscate the purpose of this House and mislead this House continuously says that you are not ready to take that responsibility seriously - buck up!

Thank you, Madam Presiding Officer. [Desk thumping] MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: Councillor Faith B. Yisrael. [Desk thumping] DR. FAITH B. YISRAEL (Minority Councillor): Good afternoon, Madam Presiding Officer, good afternoon to the other Members of the House. And a special good afternoon to those individuals who are Members of the Public who have chosen to sit with us, who have chosen to join us today as we debate this very important issue.

34 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m.

Madam Presiding Officer, today, I am indeed very proud. I am proud because this Motion unamended is one that strives to bring real and true democracy back to the island of Tobago.

Madam Presiding Officer, please allow me to explain. You see we throw the word, "democracy" around all the time without really understanding what that word means. According to the Miriam Webster Dictionary, one of the meanings is, "Government by the people." And allow me to stress, "by the people." Dictionaries also includes other definitions (1) is and I quote: "A Government in which the supreme power is vested in the people, and exercise by them directly and indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections.”

Madam Presiding Officer, please allow me to stress the first part of that definition - "A Government in which the supreme power is vested in the people.”

Madam Presiding Officer, please allow me to take us back to the night of January 23rd, 2017 when the Progressive Democratic Patriots (PDP) an organization that was under a year old was able to yes, win two (2) seats and come dangerously close to a third. [Desk thumping]

35 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m.

Madam Presiding Officer, we journeyed to Roxborough to celebrate that victory. Honestly, Madam Presiding Officer, I was surprised by the volume of supporters that came out to celebrate their victory. Yes, it was their victory. Because many of them said to us, "We need to have a voice in the House, in the THA." Many of our supporters and even supporters on the other side continue to say to us, "We are so happy that you guys are here because we need to have checks and balances within the THA, we need to hold them accountable." And because of that, I am extremely proud to stand here and be a part of this process.

Madam Presiding Officer, I have recognized however, that many of those same Members of the public do not really understand how our democracy works here in Tobago. In fact, in many instances we would say that the process is somewhat flawed.

Madam Presiding Officer, allow me to explain. In several instances, I have had individuals approached me personally and say, "that they are only hearing the Members of the PNM at Post-executive Council briefings."

Now, the first time I heard that I was surprised but after hearing it on several occasions it caused me to realize that a lot of people who are part of the public believe that Members of the Minority are a part of Executive Council.

Of course, Madam Presiding Officer, those of us on this end know that that is not true. As a matter of fact, Madam Presiding Officer, I would like to make it abundantly clear to those who are in the public, even those who

36 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m. are in the viewing gallery that the Members who are on the Minority side are not a part of Executive Council. Now, this is unfortunate, because this is where decisions about several matters are raised and those decisions are taken.

Decisions like what projects should take priority; decisions like

which contractor to hire; decisions like which building to rent; decisions like who to hire and how much salary to pay them; decisions like which officer should be allowed to go travelling when and where. These decisions are made in Executive Council and we the Members on this side are not a part of those decisions.

As you may be following the sittings we have had before - we have had two. The first dealt with having a Code of Conduct. The second dealt with banning styrofoam effectively.

You use the different words but

effectively, that is where we are heading to.

Madam Presiding Officer, these types of meetings, through you to the public I would like to explain that those are the kinds of meetings and those are the kinds of sittings that we are a part of.

In fact, Madam Presiding Officer, it is also important to allow the public to know that the Third Sitting, this one of each quarter is the only sitting where the Private Members which includes those of us on the Minority are allowed to present a Motion.

This is why, Madam Presiding

Officer, we have decided to be very specific with this Motion that we present here today.

37 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m.

Madam Presiding Officer, as you may recall, when we were scheduled to debate the Code of Conduct on the First Sitting, my colleague, the Representative for Speyside/Parlatuvier/L'Anse Fourmi, instead requested that we discuss the issue of the Cargo boat. At the time, we understood that there were issues with the boat. We understood that it was due to leave servicing Trinidad and Tobago shortly. We understood that it may have been going to Spain or wherever - I am not sure, I cannot remember exactly where they said it was going to. When my colleague suggested that we suspend the Code of Conduct discussion and spend time ...

[Interruption]

I am

wrapping up.

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: Councillor, I want to say this again. I said it to the Minority Leader. A decision was made by the Presiding Officer, and that cannot be questioned at this time. Please be mindful of the Standing Orders.

DR. F. B. YISRAEL [Minority Councillor]: I apologize, Madam Presiding Officer, my intent was not to question the decision.

I continue. Since then we continue to see that the issue of the Cargo boat is important and I will end at that.

38 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m.

Madam Presiding Officer, given that the Members of the Minority are not included in the Executive Council, the only opportunity to really determine the Motion to be debated in the House falls at this sitting. This is why we were very, very careful in how we worded the motion.

As

previously indicated, the requirements of the Executive Council to report to the House is clear vire Section 34 of the Tobago House of Assembly Act, Parts (2) and (3). There are also segments of the Financial Rules and Regulations that speak to Government Bodies also reporting clearly to the people who elected them.

Madam Presiding Officer, if we review the Order Paper as was previously indicated by my colleague the Minority Leader, there continues to be ample time for comments; for statements to be made by Secretaries and Assistant Secretaries.

However, thus far, we have not heard those

individuals make statements except for the last sitting. Now, during the last sitting Madam Presiding Officer, a Secretary did make mention of the fact that the Minority side was going to be allotted an office space. That is what that opportunity was used to stress. Madam Presiding Officer, that was very unfortunate because they could have used that opportunity to speak about other things that were pressing to the people of Tobago. May as I state though that it is about month later, and we are still to have access to that pace that was said is available.

Madam Presiding Officer, as we go back to the Order Paper, there is also a section that is labelled, “Papers� and what we have been given every

39 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m. month so far, are these Monthly Budget Reports. We have been given for I think:  September;  October;  November;  December;  January; and we just got the one for  February.

Madam Presiding Officer, after reviewing those papers, we recognized that what has been provided has practically no details. For example, the Monthly Report for February, the one laid in the House today, basically says that, about one hundred and ninety-three million dollars ($193m.) was allotted to the Tobago House of Assembly to spend for Development Projects and approximately one hundred and thirty-four million dollars ($134m.) was spent with about four million ($4m.) being committed meaning that it has not been paid out as yet but the work is going on and they intend to pay it.

This is extremely vague Madam Presiding Officer, and the Members of the Minority, we really do not have any information about what that money have been spent on. We have no idea apart from what we hear in the Media about what projects has been started, the cost of those projects, again the contractors that were used, the estimated cash flow of the projects, or the projected benefit that any of these projects will have to the people of Tobago. I repeat, the report says that we have already spent one hundred and thirty-four million dollars ($134m.) at the end of February.

40 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m.

Madam Presiding Officer, please allow me to use this opportunity to verbally present some of the Questions that Members of this side will be forwarding to you, to have included in the Order Paper at the next sitting. It revolves around the fact that we do not have the information and the Executive Council is required to report to the House. Questions like, we have recognized that in the Monthly Reports there is a very close link between how much money has been transferred from Trinidad and how much money has been used in Tobago. For example, at the end of January, the releases from Trinidad was approximately six hundred and eighty-nine million dollars ($689m.) while the spent and committed totalled approximately six hundred and forty-two million dollars ($642m.). As we can all agree and we have heard consecutive Executive Council says, the monies that comes from Trinidad Madam Presiding Officer, is never really enough to do what we really need to do to ensure that Tobago gets to the point where we are at developed world status. As a result, we are interested Madam Presiding Officer, because those who elected those of us who are here, and thanks to those who have been selected, they keep asking what are you guys doing to help Tobago develop? We know that the monies that comes from Trinidad has never been enough. So, what are you going to do under

Section 51 of the Tobago House of Assembly Act to activate

additional sources of revenue so that we can take Tobago forward and as you said, further?

41 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m.

Madam Presiding Officer, we have also noticed that the volume of revenues collected in Tobago has been extremely small.

Over the last

sixteen (16) years, less than five percent (5%) of the revenues used has actually been collected - actually I think it is closer to three percent (3%).

Therefore, it speaks about the success or possibly the lack thereof, of the Administration’s ability to ensure that Tobago’s economic status raises to the point where it can actually generate revenue. This is something that we continually hear from Trinidad that we are just using their money. So, what we are going to do here to ensure that we raise our own funds here?

Finally, Madam Presiding Officer, these Monthly Reports as you can see, are in Summary form. We would like and I certainly hope that at the Committee that my colleague will be chairing, we will not have to ask again.

I certainly hope that the details that support these numbers are actually presented.

We know for example that the Finance Department at the end of every month creates very detailed Fiscal Reports that speaks about how much money has been allotted; how much has been spent, how much has been committed in every single line item of every single Division of the Tobago House of Assembly. We are hoping that that kind of information is what is brought to the House so that we have a better idea of when you say you spend one hundred and ninety something million dollars ($190m.), what has that been spent on. Madam Presiding Officer, these Questions will be worded and forwarded as required vire the Standing Orders.

42 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m.

Back to the Order Paper, Madam Presiding Officer.

As I mention before, they are the Sections that speak to Secretaries and Assistant Secretaries. As we have seen we have not been hearing anything from the Secretaries or Assistant Secretaries pertaining to issues that are critical to the people of Tobago at these key points in the order of how we have these sittings. We are hoping that by next month when we have another one we will have more information coming, more critical, more important information coming at those.

Madam Presiding Officer, knowing what the Executive Council is doing is critical to Tobago having true democracy on this island.

Madam Presiding Officer, we have heard whispers, whispers about special people getting or whether they are financiers or high-ranking Members of political parties getting their buildings rented, we do not know but we have been hearing about those things happening.

In one instance we understand that a building is being rented for approximately twenty-five thousand dollars ($25,000.00) a month and the person that it is been rented from is somebody who is on the board of the organization that is renting the building.

43 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m.

In other instances, we have heard about buildings being rented for two hundred and twenty thousand dollars ($220,000.00) a month and those buildings have not yet been used. Those rentals we understand are being paid since last year.

Madam Presiding Officer, these are the kinds of things that are whispered to us because we have not gotten any real reporting of what happens through any formal channel. So individuals who may be working Public Servants or whoever, who see these things and are not happy with them whisper to us and they do so with fear. They do so knowing that if it is known where this information comes from they will be victimized. Their jobs are going to be in jeopardy.

Madam Presiding Officer, we also heard about all of these Special Purpose Companies and so forth that are being created with Board Members who we do not even know who the Board Members are or what the Board is responsible for doing. These are the kinds of information that is required.

Madam Presiding Officer, I am not standing here because I want to know, I am standing because the people of Tobago deserves to know that is why we are here. [Desk thumping] Madam Presiding Officer, that is why when we wrote this Motion it was pretty specific because we know that individuals are interested in knowing specifically about off-budget expenditure, about knowing specifically about expenditure drawn down from the Contingency Account of more than fifty thousand dollars ($50,000.00) because they want to know

44 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m. specifically about the leasing or distributing of THA or State Lands - those people out there specifically want to know about those people who have contracts and consultancies that exceeds one hundred thousand dollars ($100,000.00); they specifically want to know about those people who are getting paid more than twenty thousand dollars ($20,000.00) and we do not know what their roles are, what their qualifications are, they specifically want to know.

That is why, Madam Presiding Officer, we were very clear on how we wrote the Motion. May I also add for those who may not have heard it.

We also specifically want to know about those who have been appointed to State or THA Boards. We usually hear about these things after the fact.

About the quarterly Income and Expenditure of the Companies that have been incorporated on behalf of the THA or by the THA and of the rental and leasing of properties by the THA. Madam Presiding Officer, with our limited resources, we need to be vigilant about how we spend the money, we need to be vigilant. We the people need to ensure that we get the “best bang for our buck.” We need to ensure that.

We need to ensure that our priorities as in the priorities of the man on the ground are also the priorities of those who they elected to represent

45 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m. them; we need to ensure that. Without these guarantees the Tobago House of Assembly cannot and will not boast of it being a real democratic system.

Without these guarantees the individuals who voted for my colleagues, the individuals who voted for me even though I did not win, they want to know what we are doing on their behalf.

We do not intend on this side to sit back

and allow this Executive Council to do what it pleases and disappoint the people of Tobago.

Madam Presiding Officer, as I wrap up, this Executive Council must know that it acts on behalf of the people and not themselves.

[Desk

thumping] Shortly after the elections, we spoke about the fact that we were elected and selected to push a Tobago agenda and this we want to continue doing.

I certainly hope, Madam Presiding Officer, that the Members of the Executive Council also sees it as their responsibility to vote in favour of this Motion unamended because it is the right thing to do for the people who elected you.

Thank you. [Desk thumping] MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: thumping]

Deputy Presiding Officer.

[Desk

46 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m.

DEPUTY PRESIDING OFFICER AND ASSISTANT SECRETARY IN THE OFFICE OF THE CHIEF SECRETARY (Mr. Ancil Dennis): Thank you very much, Madam Presiding Officer, for the opportunity to contribute once again in this House to what I consider to be a very and highly unnecessary Motion at this point in time. Because, I sat there and I listened, Madam Presiding Officer, to those on the other side, those on the Minority side and I get the sense that all of a sudden they feel as if the only access the people of Tobago has to the THA or to those in governance is through them. So they are the only persons that will hear as we heard some weeks ago that there is no rice in Tobago East. They are the only persons that will hear some of the things that are happening in Tobago as if Tobago is all of a sudden North Korea. So democracy in Tobago is all of a sudden fake we do not have real democracy, Madam Presiding Officer.

Therefore, they want to have a discussion on accountability. A group of individuals who are far from accountability, Madam Presiding Officer.

Because accountability goes beyond this House.

People must be

accountable for their personal actions, people must be accountable for what they say in and outside of this House. [Desk thumping] So when you have individuals, Madam Presiding Officer, saying to the people of Trinidad and Tobago that I do not business where the money coming from. In other words, the country could buss as a certain Soca singer sang - "The Treasury could burn down� - I do not care what happen find the money and pay the backpay. That is accountability? That is responsibility, Madam Presiding Officer? When a certain individual sitting right in that bench, Madam

47 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m.

Presiding Officer, they want to call it a "Council" but it is a bench sitting on the Minority bench could walk through the streets with possibly thousands of dollars belonging to an organization and want to come in this House and talk about accountability. [Interruption] MR. W. DUKE: Millions!

MR. A. DENNIS:

He is correcting me - millions of dollars that is

accountability. So you go in the bank take up all the people money and walking through the streets of Port-of-Spain. When the same individual Madam Presiding Officer, could find himself at a particular junction, looking for bacchanal. The word that I want to use I cannot use it. My grandmother use to say a word, I think we used to say long time, “sketel”. I do not know if that would be considered unparliamentary language. [Laughter] Alright!

Well, I would not use it, I would just say it to the people who play Play Whe, to play sixteen (16) and they would know what I am talking about. Is that accountability?

Individuals going all over the place, making loose

statements; making bacchanal in the place; and want to come and talk about accountability, as if Tobago is some kind of Communist State. We have dictatorship in Tobago.

I want to remind Tobagonians again, the kind of untruths these people will tell for Tobago to look like we are suffering. No rice in Tobago East! I want to repeat it again. I as a matter of fact, when I heard the statement Madam Presiding Officer, I sent out a couple messages and people gave me the assurance that there were several groceries in Tobago East, with rice.

48 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m.

Rice in abundance! But people want to come in this House and tell untruths, (let me be careful not to say lies) Madam Presiding Officer, for this Administration to look bad.

I want to suggest, that the intent or the

intentions of this Minority to scare the people of Tobago will not be successful under this Administration. [Desk thumping] The reality is, is that they have not done their work. All they have been doing is telling untruths, fighting for office space.

As a matter of fact, (I do not know if it is true, but I heard a particular individual said) let me say the Minority Leader said that Tobagonians are cluster phobic and afraid of elevators. Therefore, the space given to him for his office is not suitable for his office as Minority Leader. I heard the space bigger than my office, it is almost big as the Chief Secretary’s office, but it is not enough space for him as Minority Leader to begin to do his work for the people of Tobago. That is accountability Madam Presiding Officer. There is something called, “Political Tabanca” [Laughter] and I have a feeling that this is exactly what is happening to the Members on the Minority side.

When a particular Councillor could rehearse and rehash the fact that she lost the election by five (5) votes, [Desk thumping] and to call herself the Representative of Goodwood/Belle Garden and a little piece or something like that, if you lose by five (5) votes, you still lose. You are a Councillor.

[Laughter][Desk thumping] That is why we have ten (10) on the Majority and two (2) on the Minority.

49 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m.

So Madam Presiding Officer, let me deal with this frivolous thing call a Motion brought before us. We have a situation where according to the Constitution, of Trinidad and Tobago and this is at the National Level, Chapter 119 of the Constitution: “There shall be a Public Accounts Committee which shall consists of not less than six (6) nor more than ten (10) members, This is the national level again The Chairman of the Public Accounts Committee shall be a member of the Opposition in the House if any and if willing to act. The Chairman and other members may comprise of equal number of House of Representatives and the Senate as the House of Representatives may determine”.

So, what it says Madam Presiding Officer, is that within this country there are various levels of accountability. Therefore, at the national level, you have a Public Accounts Committee.

The same Public Accounts

Committee that came here in Tobago and call before it members of the Division of Tourism and Transportation at that time, and the Division of Agriculture, and they asked certain questions, certain pertinent questions, therefore, people have to give account. That is why the Leader of Assembly Business had to make some amendments to the Motion.

50 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m.

According to our Standing Orders here in the Tobago House of Assembly, it allows for a Public Accounts Committee to be chaired by the Minority Leader or somebody designated by him. That Committee can come to this House and request some of the same information and more that these individuals have placed in this Motion. Therefore, we are saying that all this is not needed. What is simply needed is for the Public Accounts Committee to be put in place and simply do its work Madam Presiding Officer. But you see we have a thing that we like to say, “Do as I say and not as I do”. So they want to come to this House to tell us we must report, we must give account. Speaking about Report, because sometimes when they talk, I do not have a clue what they are talking about.

In the previous Administration, over the last four (4) years, I myself have been to many Press Conferences, I attended many Commissioning Ceremonies and at each commissioning ceremony for the opening of any Facility, I said to the people of Tobago, dozens and in some cases hundreds gathered at these events, and of course the Media will cover it, and of course it will be on Facebook afterwards, money spent on projects, the contractor that did the project and other pertinent information was given to the people of Tobago. Members around this table go to Press Conferences from time to time and they give account to the people of Tobago. So to suggest that this Administration is secretive, or as the Minority Leader used a word to suggest that we are “unaccountable” or whatever he said, to suggest that we do not give account, we are a secretive Administration is far from the truth and may I say it is also absurd. I want to suggest to the people of Tobago

51 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m. that the people around this table, not all of them, those on the Majority side, we are accountable to the people of Tobago, we answer to the people of Tobago and we keep the people informed as much as possible on their affairs here on this island. [Desk thumping] As a matter of fact Madam Presiding Officer, the Assemblymen on the Majority side, we engaged in walkabouts. Imagine, we have Divisions to run, but yet still we find ourselves in our communities. We are old talking yes, old talk from time to time, yes, make a little joke from time to time, but the discussion is about the people’s business. We are reporting to the people in their face Madam Presiding Officer. Questions arise on what is happening on certain things. If I do not know the answer I will call up the Secretary for the respective Division, and find the answers, solutions are given, ideas are given and considered by this Administration. We are in touch with the people unlike them. I want to ask the people up in the East when last have they seen their Assemblyman? So, yes, “Do as I say and not as I do”. Tell the people of Tobago to boycott Jazz but you are up in V.I.P. “Do as I say but not as I do”.

Now in closing, I want to give the Minority some advice. First things first, do your job and do it effectively. Do not come to the Executive Council to come to tell us what we should and should not be doing. You do your job. As chair of the Public Accounts Committee, a Committee of which I would also be a Member, do your job. I am willing to co-operate to ensure that all the answers and even more that you are looking for in this Motion

52 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m. will indeed be brought to the people of Tobago through the responsibility of the Public Accounts Committee.

The second piece of advice is to accept the office that is been given to you as an office space. At the end of the day, I must admit, it may not be the same level of plushness that you have in a BMW or a Benz [Laughter] or in the PSA Offices. But you see the word, “Minority”, when you pronounce it, it says, “M-I-N-O-R-I-T-Y”. [Desk thumping] [Laughter] It means of lesser importance. Therefore to demand accommodations that are on the same level as the Chief Secretary, is absolutely disrespectful. To demand accommodations that are excessive is absolutely disrespectful to the people of Tobago. [Desk thumping] Therefore, my advice to you is to move into the people's space rather than making silly excuses that the people of Tobago are clusterphobic and afraid of elevators move into the space and begin to do your job as Minority Leader in the Tobago House of Assembly.

In the second closing, [Laughter] I usually have two closing. I want to suggest to the people of Tobago to fear not democracy in Tobago is in fact alive and well. [Desk thumping] As a matter of fact, over the last two years democracy has been strengthened in Tobago. [Desk thumping] Because being part of a previous Administration when we did not even have a Minority when the score was 12.0 you know what the Administration did we engaged in an exercise that required us on a monthly basis, we did it in the

53 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m. first year of office and then we did it again in either 2015 going into 2016 where we went into every single community and every Division had to report to the people of Tobago, on their objectives, on what they delivered to the people of Tobago, on what they could not deliver to the people of Tobago and why those things could not be delivered to the people of Tobago. And therefore, we maintained the relationship with the people over the years because we recognize that representation is not about big five thousand square feet offices. That is the space you require, that is the space you asking for? Representation is about being in touch with the people. And by all means if you want big spaces then you pay the rent.

By all means, if you want a certain level of

accommodation you pay for it, we do not have a problem with that. But when it comes to the use of taxpayers money this Administration will continue to ensure that there is transparency, there is accountability and there is also value for money, Madam Presiding Officer.

And therefore, I am only willing to support the amended version of this Motion [Desk thumping] which simply suggest and I am only going to read the last part.

"BE IT RESOLVED that this House support the immediate convening of the Public Accounts Committee in order to ensure the continued pursuance of the public interest."

54 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m.

And I am simply saying that when that is done and once the Chairman of that Committee stop the games and stop the gimmicks and do his work then in fact all the answers that they are looking for, all the reports that they want (I hope when they get reports they could read reports) all the reports that they are looking for will in fact come to the table and therefore, the people of Tobago will continue to be represented and represented well by this Administration.

I take my seat at this time. [Desk thumping] MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: Member for L'Anse Fourmi/Speyside.

MR. FARLEY AUGUSTINE (L'Anse Fourmi/Speyside): Madam Presiding Officer, the Motion as originally penned and intended sought to accomplish three (3) major things among others.

Firstly, the original Motion was essentially a call for us to construct a glasshouse. It was a call for us to dismantle, to take down walls of brick and mortar and to replace it with glass because essentially, this is about opening up governance to all the people of Tobago.

Secondly, Madam Presiding Officer, this Motion sought to also save the Honourable Chief Secretary and his colleagues from being even their best PNM (People’s National Movement) self and I will explain that in a moment because if we look at the track record the one, the same one that the Deputy Presiding Officer just a while ago tried to make us believe was so

55 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m. good. We would only hope that they will not be like the past but now, Madam Presiding Officer, I am getting to really understand that a tree may shoot new leaves but the root is the same old root nothing changes.

Thirdly, this Motion is really a Motion for all times. This is not a Motion for just this four (4) years but the original Motion as penned is really for all times, whether we are here or not. Whether a Party name “Z” becomes the next Executive Council. This Motion will ensure that the Tobago House of Assembly becomes a glasshouse, one that you can see right through. I want to show you why it is dangerous for us to not go with the original Motion as penned.

Firstly, I want to indicate quite publicly and this is not by any means an attempt to question your judgment.

But the Presiding Officer, in

accordance with 32 (2) part (b) of the Standing Orders decided to make some changes. So in the second preamble that the Leader of Government Business cited a change.

We were not responsible for that error. Then if

you go to the last resolution that will resolve that this Motion be presented to Members of this House through the Public Accounts Committee. What we wanted was that this information be presented in writing to all Members of the House on a quarterly basis.

I respect the Presiding Officer’s judgment and so, I want to demonstrate why it is important that even with the Presiding Officer’s best judgment that we should stick with the original Motion.

56 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m.

Firstly, I want to say why we must have this Motion. It is no secret that the Public Accounts Committee of this said Tobago House of Assembly even when there was an Opposition in the past never really function well, was never really outfitted with what it required to have a Public Accounts Committee and people are saying, start up the Public Accounts Committee and I hope to God that this Public Accounts Committee will be treated the same way a Public Accounts Committee is treated in the neighbouring House of Representatives or in the National Parliament rather and provided with sufficient support staff.

Secondly, this Motion was brought because as Members of the Minority and I have no problem being a part of the Minority because sometimes it is good to not follow the multitudes. The Bible says that the multitude will lead you to hell and I would not be following the multitude to hell, I prefer to be part of a remnancy and proud to be part of that too but this Minority has as part of its duty to ensure that we bring to light things done by the Executive Council by way of us scrutinizing, appraising, yes, even criticizing and critiquing policies, projects of the Executive Council. And we cannot do that sufficiently when it is in order for us to find out the actions of the Executive Council and of course we are looking at former Executive Councils because I am convinced that nothing is happening at the moment.

57 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m.

If you look at the pattern of behaviour from former Executive Councils is one whereby you have to pry, you have to beg a Public Servant somewhere to squeeze you a piece of information, you have to play Ghostbuster, you have to become Kasper to find out and when you find out what has transpired then, it is all over hitting the fan.

Madam Presiding Officer, the reality is, if we had a practice, a habit, a political culture, a political behaviour whereby we operated transparently, a lot of the mistakes made would not have been made. So the Majority bench must understand that this is to help them save themselves from their worse selves.

Madam Presiding Officer, they must also understand, that this Motion is really about open government and open governance.

It is about, “open government and open governance�. That is why we wanted people to lay things bare for everybody to see right here just drop the information. We recognized based on the Tobago House of Assembly Act that yes, the Executive Council has the authority to act without prior approval of this House, but we wanted the Executive Council to understand that it is also individually and collectively responsible to this House. We wanted the Executive Council to understand very early in the game that if they make it a habit of saying to all and sundry what they do, then we will not repeat the errors of the past. I do not want to repeat the errors of the last

58 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m. sixteen (16) years, and I will go through some of them, but this is really about “open government and open governance”. In fact, “open government and open governance” is really about exchanging the old, that old system where decisions are made behind closed doors and moving towards a place where everything is made open, where decisions are made with everybody’s input. It is about ensuring that information moves freely both to and from government through a multitude of channels. We know that they already exists, the Freedom of Information Act. But in order for us to have open governance we have to use a multitude of channels. We also have to deliberately duplicate processes so as to ensure that there is openness, so as to ensure that there is accountability. Let us pause there for a moment. If we look at the practice of the Executive Council in times past, and I could say in times present too, this is an Executive Council you can ask for information, make request to the Freedom of Information Act and you will be ignored.

They are saying to the people of Tobago, I dare you, find a lawyer, find money and carry us to Court, knowing fully well that most Tobagonians cannot afford to go through the legal processes and so they will leave it as it is, and they get away scotch free with murder. That is the practice of the past Executive Councils. So I do not know what the Deputy Presiding Officer, was talking about. But you see perhaps his darkers is tinted differently to everyone else. Perhaps it is painted.

Open governance is also about decision makers becoming responsive to the needs, ideas and priorities of citizens and external bodies and provide

59 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m. a number of effective accessible channels for these to be voiced. That is the direction that we must go to.

You see one of the challenges with the Westminster System is one whereby winner tends to take all. It is one whereby you can easily create elected oligarchs. You can easily have elected dictators; you can easily have North Korea being elected. That is the reality of the Westminster System.

When we look at the reality of the Westminister System as is practice in the Caribbean, in a post-slavery, post-colonial society, that is what we see happening. That is the kind of political behaviour we have seen repeatedly.

This is an opportunity for Tobago to move ahead of the game.

Madam Presiding Officer, furthermore, open governance is about also allowing citizens, businesses, civil society to also be engaged. One of the ways they can be engaged is through all members of the House, whether you were elected, whether you are a Councillor, whether you lose by five (5) votes and you end of here. Once you sit in this Chamber, you are someone that members of the civil society, members of the public can reach out to, can get information from. It is difficult to give information that is being held in secret. Perhaps I should have signed up to join the FBI (Federal Bureau Investigation) may be that is what is required to get some information.

I want to quote something from a Study, commissioned by the World Bank, and that was done in 2003 by Rumein Islam. This Study is entitled, “Do more transparent governments govern better?” So the title is rhetorical

60 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m. question. Here is what Islam discovered in that 2003 Report. He found that greater access could among other things improve:  “Risks Management;  Economic performance; and  Bureaucratic efficiency in Governments”.

So in other words, the more information, the more access, the more we allow people to have access to the inner workings of governance, the more we take down these old brick walls and replace it with glass, it is the more efficient our governing processes will become. That is the finding of the World Bank.

Perhaps Trinidad and Tobago will do well to begin to listen to some of the things that the World Bank is saying.

I went further Madam Presiding Officer, and I looked at the Organization for Economic Corporation and Development (the OECD), and the OECD did several studies about open governance about transparency, something that this Motion is trying to achieve. The OECD has shown that increasing government openness can contribute to a higher rate of GDP growth, reduce the incidence of corruption and raises standards in public management and service delivery Madam Presiding Officer. I am now left to believe, that people who do not want to duplicate the processes that would allow for openness, people who scorn and mock this Motion, that they do not want to be accountable, they do not want to raise their standard in their management and service delivery. Of course, I have a belief, which is if it is in secret, chances are it is corrupt, but if it is in the open, chances are that

61 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m. you will be afraid to be corrupt. [Desk thumping] So, we must understand that this thing call “humanity”, and the fact that, “we are all born in sin and shaped in equity”, and so the penchant for doing wrong is always there. We must save ourselves by voting for this Motion.

Perhaps, I went on to look at some countries around the World. If we look at New Zealand and Australia Madam Presiding Officer, it has been found that the knowledge that documentation will eventually be made public. Listen to this, the knowledge that documentation will eventually be made public, meaning they would have taken actions in governing already, but because they have laws that require that it will eventually be made public, that in itself can be sufficient to drive up standards of decision making and record keeping procedures among public officials. That is in New Zealand and Australia - Commonwealth countries, like we are. If we come outside of the Commonwealth, we looked at Argentina and Mexico.

The OECD found that by publishing procurement documents for example, that has led to savings in public expenditure. What it has resulted in it has resulted in the public outcry against things that they deemed as being excessive.

So, in one instance in Argentina, it has been shown where

building a public hospital they had savings of fifty percent (50%), just by the fact that they made their documentation public.

If we look at the Motion, this is what it attempts to do. This motion has originally penned, attempts to ensure that all off budget expenditure, things we did not budget for that expenditure drawn down on the Contingency Fund which is supposed to be sacred and which has rules of

62 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m. engagement that has been flouted by previous Executive Councils. The leasing or distributing of State lands … [Interruption]

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER:

You continue to impute improper

motives on previous … Please!

MR. F. AUGUSTINE: My apologies, Madam Presiding Officer and I am aware of why you might feel that way but I accept your ruling.

This Motion as originally penned intended that: • “the leasing or distribution of State Land of THA” owned lands that too must be brought here; • “Contracts or consultancy exceeding a hundred thousand TT ($100,000.00TT) in value.

• Contracted

employment

exceeding

twenty

thousand

TT

($20,000.00) per month.

• Appointments to THA Boards” or Company Boards or State Boards.

And the reality is that things happen and then the entire public is left wondering who is on this Board? Like we were left wondering who was on the former Port Authority Board, we were wondering who was there. That was not made public because we did not know.

63 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m.

Then, we also wanted quarterly income and expenditure of Companies Incorporated by or on behalf of the THA. Can anybody in this House tell me how much money the Cassava Company made last? through Scarborough can anybody tell you that? the average Tobagonian will be able to tell you that.

If you walk

If we had transparency So, this is not about

making anybody look bad this is about ensuring that we begin to practice best governance in such a way that those who will replace us in this Chamber will be duty bound to follow such.

The original Motion also ask for us to bring before this House Companies and so who have received subventions or even policy directives from the Executive Council. Information concerning rental or leasing of properties for use by the Tobago House of Assembly that exceeds fifty thousand dollars ($50,000.00) TT. Those are the things. I am sure if you walk and ask the average Tobagonian if they will want to know this information in a timely manner, they would say, “yes.”

I heard people

saying, that it is onerous. Well governing is onerous. It includes a lot of hard work, and if you do not want to do the hard work, then give it up. It is onerous.

But what is most telling in our desire or the need rather for this

Motion are some simple facts.

The Leader of Government Business said that, “The majority rules”, and he branded that. It reminded me of another statement, “We in charge now.”

It tells of the kind of arrogance in governance. People feel they

reach, majority rules does not mean that the majority can become a club of

64 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m. dictators.

Majority ruling in a democracy means that the majority is

working in tandem with the rest of the society.

You know, I said something to a Member of my Constituency, and I said to her, “I wish that the Executive Council will do such a good job that I do not have a job the next four (4) years.” Because at the end of the day, this is not about Farley – this is not about me, this is about Tobago. Farley will survive whether Tobago collapses or not, but I decided to get involved in politics because I saw a collapsing island.

But let us look at the pattern of behaviour from previous THAs. Because people tend to think well, we will never do this, we will never do that but sometimes is when you get into the position you find yourself repeating the same mistakes of those who were there before you.

Previously, we had people ignoring Freedom of Information request and I said that. We had appointments of people to State Boards without public knowing. Previously, we had people running and signing a deal of that now infamous called the “MILTSHIRV deal.” know about it before.

Tobagonians did not

Tobagonians did not know that the THA had

purchased lands for twelve million dollars ($12m.) had given it back almost immediately to a developer for a one hundred and ninety-nine years at ten dollars ($10) per year which is essentially a give-away. We did not know then, that the same Assembly who gave away the land at such a cheap price was now committing itself to paying rental for the property upon completion of One point six million dollars ($1.6m.) per month. And so, even now, we

65 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m. are paying one point six million dollars ($1.6m.) per month for a building that is still empty.

One point six million dollars ($1.6m) per month. The point is, open governance would have required based on this Motion … [Interruption] MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: Can you give way?

HON. J. JACK: I will get a chance to speak after.

MR. F. AUGUSTINE: Okay. So open governance would have required that all this information would have been brought to the public before it happened. We should not have heard about it and in doing some election campaign and have things up-steward.

Then, when we look at ignoring the Auditor General’s Report – and people want to talk about transparency and that things are always brought to the Media and brought to people and so on and I keep saying, open government

is

about

duplicating

some

processes.

It

is about having a multiplicity of channels through which governance can be transparent.

The Auditor General Report and we are quoting from the Report for the year 2004. Looking at political behaviour. The Auditor General said: "Because of the possible effect of the limitation of evidence, I am unable to form an opinion as to whether the Financial Statements present fairly in all material respects.

The state of affairs of the House of Assembly as at 2004, September 30th, and its financial performance and cash flows for the year ended 2004, September 30th in accordance with the International Financial Reporting standards."

66 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m.

This is the 2004 Report. The Auditor General saying that she cannot really verify our accounts.

If you fast track to 2006 then you will find more of the same from the Auditor General and you know, what is passing strange is that despite this fact that it is no secret that we have been unable to properly account through the Auditor General for our expenses, people will still show up in the House today and behave as if this Motion is obscene. Is it that we really want to continue governing in a system that allows for so many loopholes and it allows for people to get away with murder?

Madam Presiding Officer, this Motion ... [Interruption] MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: Member, you have five (5) minutes remaining.

MR. F. AUGUSTINE: Madam Presiding Officer, if I wanted to be nasty in this House I could have followed suit ... [Interruption] MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: Un-parliamentary language.

MR. F. AUGUSTINE: I withdraw that Madam Presiding Officer.

Madam Presiding Officer, if I wanted to be un-parliamentary I would have stood in this House and begin to call names of Youth Leaders who were taking loans from the organization without their organization's permission.

If I wanted to be un-parliamentarian I would have stood in this House - in fact, I would have brought my Credit Union book for monies from when I was in Primary School and ask where it is?

67 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m.

If I wanted to be un-parliamentarian I would have been talking about people living in Government houses that they indirectly gave to themselves.

But the point is, Madam Presiding Officer, this Motion is not about that.

This Motion is about us ensuring that good governance continues in Tobago for a very long time.

I want to put it on record and say to my good friend Councillor Stewart-Phillips, thanks for the invitation to be at the Jazz. I note she did not give any to my other colleagues but thanks for the invitation nonetheless.

I also want to indicate that I was there and walking around as well. In fact, I walked around first and then went to the VIP area and despite my invitation saying one guest I decided to tote some other public people in there because I am about transparency and if I have my way and I was keeping Jazz there will be no VIP unless you could give everybody.

More than that, if we had openess, then we will know who the brokers were for this no-show artiste. If we had openess we will know whether or not an agent that is reputable was used or not and perhaps there would not be so many risks within the Jazz Festival. But you see, if we want to continue with business as usual, then we could ignore this Motion as originally intended.

We could do like my good friend, the Deputy Presiding Officer, who was brave enough to talk about “political tabanca.” Perhaps I should remind the goodly gentleman that “political tabanca” might be when you expected to be a Secretary and you are not. [Desk thumping] So, we must get ourselves together. We must look at this motion seriously and look at what it is intended to do. I have no problems with

68 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m. amendments Madam Presiding Officer, but if we are amending let us not amend with the purpose of attenuating what the motion is about, of watering it down, so that you would get away easy. If we are amending, amend it to make it better.

I thank you Madam Presiding Officer. [Desk thumping] MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER:

Secretary of Finance and the

Economy.

DEPUTY CHIEF SECRETARY AND SECRETARY OF FINANCE AND THE ECONOMY [Hon. Joel Jack]: [Desk thumping] Thank you Madam Presiding Officer for giving me the opportunity to join in the debate at this time.

Madam Presiding Officer, while I am on my feet at this time, let me first congratulate you on your appointment and elevation to the position of Presiding Officer. It is my first time participating in a motion for this term in office.

Madam Presiding Officer, I want to commend you for keeping the standard and decorum of this House that we would have been accustom to since the formation of the Tobago House of Assembly since 1980 and especially again since 2001 under the PNM Administration.

You have

signalled your intent to keep the standard high, lift the bar and do things differently and for that I wish to congratulate you on your elevation to office.

69 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m.

Madam Presiding Officer, you know I sat through this debate and I sat through with a heavy heart and with bitter sweet feelings. I remember my transition being a technocrat; being in the public gallery for some time, and observing the proceedings in the term 2009-2013. I came and sat in this House through a period when we had no Minority voice on that side.

Madam Presiding Officer, I am seeing a troubling link similar to what occurred during that term 2009-2013 period.

I remember when the Administration brought forward important motions to the people of Tobago, motions to empower the Assembly, motions to give Tobago greater Internal Self-Government, motions to formulate an Assembly Police Force, and the Members on the other side refused to support. They refused! I remember sitting here one time, and to our astonishment, they walked out when we were debating an important Bill.

Madam Presiding Officer, if you see, as our old people will say, “You see something in the daylight, do not take torch light or Bou’eille d’ feu (bullde-fay) to go and find it”. What I have seen thus far, this being the third sitting, is a dangerous trend on the Minority side. Similar to what occurred in 2009-2013, I am seeing a similar picture.

We came on the first debate with a motion to set the tone and direction for governance of this island over the next four (4) years. We were looking for bi-partisan support, we were looking for consensus on the other side, and they flatly refused.

Could it be just as we saw in 2009-2013 period that

70 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m. they did not get approval from their partners across the waters? As we saw recently on Tuesday about a surprising appointment in the Senate, their partners again. So Madam Presiding Officer, I sat through this debate heavy hearted as I have sat through the two (2) previous debates listening to the Minority side.

When I got into politics, when I made the decision to serve Tobago and Tobagonians, it was with the intent to provide effective representation, it was with the intent to serve the people, to have an understanding as to what the rules of this House and how they operate the Standing Orders and how we are to achieve good governance. Not to be cavalier and flamboyant and to disregard the rules and order and trying to circumnavigate in a kind of surreptitious manner

the Standing Orders that would have given the

Minority Leader the information that he required but he chose to bulldoze his way with a motion as an attempt to call for transparency and accountability. But Madam Presiding Officer, I have to ask the question, where was the Minority Leader living all the time? Wasn’t he looking at what was happening during this House over the past years? Did he at least picked up the Budget Statements that we tabled in this House outlining the Administration’s policies over the past four (4) years? I hope that he might have glanced through our Manifesto as he tried to look at some of our strategies for good governance moving forward. If he had done that Madam Presiding Officer, he would have realized that a co-pillar in this Administration is, “Transparency and Accountability”. [Desk thumping] So to come now and attempt to accuse us of being less than genuine in our

71 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m. attempt to enhance and increase the level of accountability and transparency, in the Tobago House of Assembly is an attempt to mislead this House and mislead the people of Tobago.

Madam Presiding Officer, we past the first motion to set the tone of the behaviour of Assemblymen and Councillors, and we did not get the support. They refused to submit the names to appoint the Committee to come up with the rules. But however, when they realized that it was their turn to submit this motion, surprisingly, two (2) weeks ago, the Leader of Assembly Business got the names.

But thank you nonetheless Minority

Leader, we will continue to do our work on this side, and set the tone for good governance in Tobago.

Madam Presiding Officer, I want to echo the sentiments of my colleague Assemblyman Anil Dennis and Member for Buccoo/Mt. Pleasant, and to urge the Minority Leader, to in posthaste, let us get the work of the Public Account Committee moving. The information that you required you can obtain it therein.

Madam Presiding Officer, even though for argument sake the Member might be busy on his trips to Trinidad fulfilling his other duties - you know his failed marches and his rolling around the ground and so on and while he

72 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m. is abdicating his responsibility to the people of Roxborough. I just want to inform the Minority Leader of what has transpired in Tobago over the past four (4) years and this Administration's programmes and policies as we outline our goal to increase and enhance transparency and accountability in Tobago.

Madam Presiding Officer, I want to start with the fact that we have adopted the International Public Sector Accounts Standard (IPSAS) in Tobago formally. We have set the tone nationally in terms of the direction; in terms of publishing, collating and reporting Public Accounts. So we have set the tone.

Trinidad later on indicated that they are also adopting and we are moving ahead in that respect. So when I heard the talk about that we are not so inclined in terms of promoting accountability and transparency, I believe that the Minority Leader may have been in Trinidad and totally unaware of what was happening in Tobago. So let me help you a little bit. So we adopted the International Public Sector Accounting Standards (IPSAS) and we have undertaken all the necessary measures. We have had the report; we have done the gap-analysis and we are on our way towards the full implementation of IPSAS (International Public Sector Accounting Standards).

Let me also make a point with respect to something the Minority Councillor who almost won and was talking about the Monthly Budget Reports. We took that decision to table every month in this House because the Minority Councillor was saying that the reports are inadequate but the Minority Leader was saying that we have not tabled or supplied or furnished

73 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m. this House with any Reports. So which is it? So please be consistent in your arguments because this Administration - because when you make these remarks (and let me warn you) people regionally, nationally and internationally are listening to these mis-statements and misinformation that you all are peddling out there. So I would urge you to temper some of your statements and please be accurate with the information especially in the House; especially in the public space and you have a responsibility as an elected Member, as Minority Leader to be accurate with the information that you provide to the public.

Madam Presiding Officer, we take care to furnish this House and to table the Monthly Reports of revenue and expenditure and just as I did earlier in the Sitting those reports are tabled on a monthly basis.

Somebody mentioned the Auditor General Report and the Financial Statements and the Assemblyman for Parlatuvier/L'Anse Fourmi/Speyside quoted 2005 - 2006 probably to send the signal again that we have Financial Statements outstanding. Again, Madam Presiding Officer, I was about to get up on a Point of Order because he was misrepresenting the facts because we have tabled in this Honourable House Financial Statements up to 2015. We will table the Financial Statements in this House at the next sitting for the Financial year 2016.

Our responsibility is to prepare and submit the Financial Statements to the Auditor General's Department and we have done so and it is their responsibility to have the Financial Statements audited. So I want to correct that bit of misinformation that is been peddled.

74 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m.

Madam Presiding Officer, there was a talk about opening your accounts and building glass houses. We took the decision in the Tobago House of Assembly since 2012 to go to Moody's a rating agency to open the books and the operations of the Assembly to further scrutiny. We did not just keep things secret or keep things hidden we went further. So we have a rating from Moody's and annually Moody's comes and we present our Financial Statements and they review it and so on.

Madam Presiding Officer, we went further.

The International

Monetary Fund (IMF) in their article for consultation travels to Trinidad annually and when I became Secretary of Finance, I made a request that the IMF Article 4 - Consultation also incorporates the Tobago House of Assembly and that has been ongoing since 2014 - 2015 and it will happen again this year, Madam Presiding Officer.

So, when they talking about scrutiny and about having things hidden, I think they are referring - it might be a self-reference criteria, Madam Presiding Officer. You know sometimes you are accustom to some things and you think that is the way things should be but we have been diligent in terms of deepening our democracy and also improving our accountability and transparency.

So, Madam Presiding Officer, as it relates to procurement and the Procurement Legislation, the Executive Council during the last term (of which I was a proud Member of) approved a Note to modernize the Assembly's Procurement system as a forerunner to the new Procurement Legislation that will be enacted soon. So we had a head start, we introduced

75 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m. a new Procurement system with the intention of streamlining and standardizing the Procurement procedures and processes throughout the Assembly and with a view to fix any dysfunctional aspects of the old and the existing Procurement systems. So what that entails - the establishment of a Central

Procurement

Unit,

Madam

Presiding

Officer,

establishing

Procurement Units, formalizing the appointments in all Divisions of the Assembly and a number of other things. So we went ahead and we did our homework and we started the process. Madam Presiding Officer, and where we found issues and abuses in terms of the Procurement system and so on and when we investigate it we took action. And I know that the Minority Leader will be familiar with some of the action that this Administration took in the previous term with respect to malfeasance, with respect to some of the procurement issues that we found during the last term.

Madam Presiding Officer, so when we are talking about transparency and accountability, let me say that we have done well, we have set the bar. I believe that the Minority Leader and the Minority side they may not be familiar with the workings of the Executive Council on what we would have done thus far.

But, Madam Presiding Officer, let me say that I am proud of this Administration in terms of how we would have advanced this island’s development over the past sixteen (16) years and I think we have anchored and we have developed a very solid foundation for Tobago and I dare say, that Tobago is poised for take-off.

76 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m.

Madam Presiding Officer, we have achieved a lot with scarce economic resources and that is why I am proud of the impending soon to happen investment in the tourism industry and there is a need for us to prepare Tobagonians, to make use of the opportunities and to make use of the increased opportunities, the potential for wealth and entrepreneurship that will happen shortly.

We could sight the successes of our Loan and Grant Programmes; we could sight the successes of our Enterprise Assistance Fund and Grant Programmes and where we have a number of entrepreneurs and service providers and agro-processors who are on the verge of penetrating export markets.

That is why I am also pleased about our plans to develop all of Tobago in terms of our Rural Development Plan, and Rural Development Programmes.

We will continue to open up Windward Tobago as we have planned and we have outlined in previous Budget Statements.

We would also site our Human Capital Development Programme and our Housing Expansion Programme that we will see Tobago continually develop, and we would do so with Enhanced and Revised Procurement Systems. ‌ [Interruption] Nobody interrupted you may I please speak sir?

Thank you.

Madam Presiding Officer, the conduct of the Executive Council is guided by Act 40 of 1996 and it says:

77 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m.

“That the Accounts of the Tobago House of Assembly are public accounts of Trinidad and Tobago”.

So, in that vein Madam Presiding Officer, our accounts are not hidden, out veiled or secretive as the former speaker alluded to, but there are public accounts, they are published and submitted and they are tabled in this Honourable House.

We are also guided by the Exchequer and Audit Act and the Tobago House of Assembly Financial Rules.

What the motion sort to do today

Madam Presiding Officer, is under the guise of Accountability and Transparency was to just attempt to change the Tobago House of Assembly Act and to try to amend the operations of the Public Accounts Committee and the Standing Orders.

Madam Presiding Officer, I am happy that we were able to see through the smoke and mirrors. The Bible says in Matthew 7 vs. 15 I believe, “Beware of false prophets in the last days, for false Christ and false prophet shall arise. [Desk thumping] Not everyone that says Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of God”. Isaiah 42 and 19 says: Who is blind…”

So sometimes people are saying things and making people

frightful and creating hysteria and alarm.

78 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m.

Madam Presiding Officer, how can you accuse us of being less than democratic? When there was no voice on this side, we managed with such an outstanding and sterling manner. We attempted beyond the law and what was necessary, we deepened the democracy as a matter of policy. As my colleague Assemblyman Ancil Dennis pointed out.

We went to each

community, we made the circuit twice and we were always reporting to the people, we were always accessible to the people. So, to accuse us of being less than democratic Madam Presiding Officer, I think the Minority Leader owes us an apology.

Madam Presiding Officer, I made the point at the start, of having a bitter sweet feeling. When you know sometime when you are accustom to something you enjoyed it and you miss it. When over the past four (4) years, I was accustom to not hearing any opposing voice, I got used to it.

Then now a group of persons campaign on the point that there is a need for an opposition. You need a dissenting voice, and they sold that to the electorate, you need to have a voice cannot be twelve (12) nil again, Madam Presiding Officer, I am sure, just as I have seen the pattern over the past three (3) motions that the people in Tobago are saying, eh, eh. This reminds me of 2009-2013 again, “Dem people eh sounding like they care about Tobago at all. It is better we had twelve (12) nil again. It is better we had a non-dissenting voice again”.

That is why Madam Presiding Officer, when we are looking at Internal Self Government and we are looking to have the Act revised we

79 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m. probably need to have a provision should 12 nil occurred the next couple months again, for there to be some independent voice. Madam Presiding Officer, you are not seeing that Tobago representation. You are not seeing that Tobago ethic and Tobago spirit coming out for us to work together as a united force to advance Tobago’s development.

Madam Presiding Officer, I want to wrap up, with the fact that you know sometimes you read certain things, you see it in the Newspaper and you want to commend the writer for being objective and so on, but sometimes you see them taking a different slant, you wonder what happens.

Sometimes people have vailed intentions.

I just want to urge the Minority Leader and his team to be consistent and objective with your arguments. There was a deafening silence during the 2010 to 2015 period for obvious reasons no doubt. As one of the Tobago sons who met me in the airport said, “Listen to me, I am happy with the Government that we have in Central Government, but what pass then as he called it Madam Presiding Officer, “theftocracy”.

I did not hear that

dissenting voice when Tobago was being shortchanged during 2010 to 2015 period. I did not hear a cry for accountability; I did not hear a cry for anybody being locked up or anything. But how can you really, when Tobago was being shortchanged during that period when we had to beg and quarrel and make sure that according to the Act [Demonstrating] that we received our finances and subventions en bloc in advance quarterly. deafening silence.

There was a

80 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m.

Madam Presiding Officer, as I take my seat, let me say very proudly that this Administration of which I am a part of under the astute leadership of Mr. Kelvin Charles is continuing that stance in terms of ensuring that we enhance and increase accountability and transparency in the Tobago House of Assembly. This surreptitious attempt by the Minority side to move the original motion, is an attempt to hoodwink the people of Tobago.

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: Member you have three (3) minutes.

HON. J. JACK:

Thank you, Madam Presiding Officer. I would urge

Members opposite to peruse the Revised Motion and to move post-haste and to hold your first meeting of the Public Accounts Committee in accordance with Standing Orders 77.

Madam Presiding Officer, thank you for the opportunity. [Desk thumping] MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: Minority Leader.

MR. WATSON DUKE: Thank you, Madam Presiding Officer. I stand in amazement of my colleagues on that side.

I am totally amazed at their

conduct and I am somewhat comforted by the fact that their Leader, Leader of the Executive Council has chosen to establish a Code of Conduct for them.

The House has never descended into such jocular behaviour as

81 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m. displayed this afternoon. I swear I was in a “Yang Ga Tang Tent,� Madam Presiding Officer. Joke on the left, joke on the right - nothing serious.

This Motion is about good governance and good governance is a serious matter. It involves several areas and among the three (3) main areas accountability. Has it been reported, has it been explained, are you willing to give answers to questions that would be asked. Is it transparent? Could it be followed by the reasonable thinking person out there? Would someone come to the same conclusion as you arrived at if they were given the same information for the same time?

Good governance deals with the rule of law. What does the law says, Madam Presiding Officer. It is a known fact that ruling and governing are two separate things and so, they were right that the Majority rules but indeed, it is patently clear that it is one man that does govern. But the Majority rules.

What we are asking for on the Minority Council side is that governance takes on a participatory approach - one where no citizen must feel disenfranchised; one where the social contract is respected; one where there is social justice; one where there is financial prudence.

I ask myself why is it that we are in the month of April and yet, on the Order Paper on the Order of Business they are referring to presenting the Budget Statement for February. What happen to March Budget Statement?

But they are talking about, oh, they are transparent and they are ready.

We are talking about accountability here. I am very much concerned too, when I look even at the Budget Statement for February. I am seeing figures but no explanation. In my little PSA (Public Services Association)

82 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m. when we do financials there is an explanation paper. But I listened to my friends, they are handling multi-millions - cannot even run a parlour and they think governance is joke it is a “Yang Ga Tang Tent” so they come and they waste the thirty (30) minutes. We could of spoken for longer hours, Farley and I and Dr. Faith, we had much more things to say but we had to put up with this non-sensical conversation about who not representing who in the East, who in “Grand Stand” and who in “VIP.” Let us understand the business of Tobago is good governance. When you talked about building a Bus Terminal for thirteen million dollars ($13m.), one ask the question is that achievable? When will it start? When is it likely to end? Where are the drawings? How would you mitigate bad weather or standstill, how do you deal with this, what is the method statement for achieving that - thirteen million ($13m.) How did you come up with the cost as apposed to a man building a ten (10) feet bridge somewhere in Lambeau and it is eighteen million dollars ($18m.) How could the cost compare? A bus terminus for some twenty-four busses stack against a ten feet bridge in Lambeau for eighteen million dollars ($18m.)? Come on! And I ask myself the question, do they think Tobago is sleeping.

Madam Presiding Officer, it has long been established that light conceals more than it reveals. You are shining the light in our eyes so we cannot see telling yourself that “Hey, look, I am transparent, we do not want the light in our eyes, we want the light on the dark places of governance.”

83 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m.

We want to find out about Milshirv.

I have heard the Finance

Secretary, he stood up, he spoke at length, he wine and dine, rock to the side, rock to the left and he did not speak about Milshirv. He is murmuring oh shocks - because Milshirv is not important to them it is a fait accompli. One point two million dollars ($1.2m.) every month. It has gone up, one point six million dollars ($1.6m.) for a building that has been unoccupied for almost a year. Well, that was not high on his agenda. He is busy throwing tantrums and throwing jokes.

This is no “Yang Ga Tang Tent”, this is the

Tobago House of Assembly. [Interruption] HON. JOEL JACK: Madam Presiding Officer, the Member is misleading the House.

MR. W. DUKE: I am not giving way, Madam Presiding Officer.

HON. J. JACK: Madam Presiding Officer, the Member is misleading the House as his other colleague did. The Assembly paid one point six million dollars ($1.6m.) in rent.

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: Both of you are standing, I mean.

MR. W. DUKE: Go ahead, correct the facts, account to the House.

HON. J. JACK:

On a Point of Order, Madam Presiding Officer, the

Assembly is not paying rent for a building. It is a building that we will own at the end of the lease period. So we are not paying rent, when you pay rent you are paying ...

MR. W. DUKE: But how much is the figure. Correct the figure what's the figure? No, no ...

This Madam Presiding Officer, is what I am talking about they are putting light in your eyes. But light conceals more than it reveals. We do

84 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m. not want light we want light on the dark areas. Why did'nt he stand on the Point of Order to correct the facts and say well we are not renting the building we are leasing the building or we are renting to own the building or we are buying the building back for one point six million dollars ($1.6m.) a month. Let them say that, but he would not. He stand up, he fix his jacket, looks into the camera, he make sure he looks good and then he said, "It's not a rent." But what is your substance of argument, what is the substance?

Barren! I refer to it. I will only sit if you give the facts my brother.

I am coming to this House month after month and we are troubled on this side. Here we are three (3) of us battling fourteen (14) of them, they have researchers, they have drivers, they have libraries but listen to the contents of their speeches. Where are the decisive information in their speeches? One of them sleeping, he comes to the Chamber to sleep every time. The one with that pretty suit there, he is always sleeping. He is always sleeping in the Chamber, that is the kind of person we have representing people. [Crosstalk] It is sad!

As we come to a close, and we wrap up this Motion, I wish to read this Motion again and I call upon this House, this Honourable House made up of Honourable Assemblymen to let us stand for good governance today.

Let us put good governance where it ought to be on a pedestal. Let us put good governance where it ought to be in the hands of the average Tobagonian. Let them participate in good governance. Let them trace you, be accountable to them. I repeat the Motion, Madam Presiding Officer and I ask my colleagues on this side ... [Interruption]

85 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m.

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: We are going to break. Officially, Leader of Assembly Business you all need to move a Motion for the extension of the House until the completion of the sitting.

PROCEDURAL MOTION

LEADER OF ASSEMBLY BUSINESS AND SECRETARY OF INFRASTRUCTURE, QUARRIES AND THE ENVIRONMENT (Hon. Kwesi Des Vignes): Madam Presiding Officer, I beg to move that this House continue in session for a further five (5) minutes until the conclusion of the debate before the House.

Question proposed.

Question put and agreed to.

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: Minority Leader.

MR. W. DUKE: Madam Presiding Officer, thank you very much.

I want to thank my Colleague on that side, Councillor Kwesi Des Vignes. I want to recognize the first good deed he has done since he has entered the Chamber, and I ask him to please be a model leader. Continue doing good deeds.

The motion placed before this House today, that we are asking our colleagues on this side to endorse, to support, simply states:

86 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m. “WHEREAS the minority must follow adequately with the responsibilities and activities of all Divisions in the THA to help keep the public informed;

AND WHEREAS the Tobago House of Assembly Standing Orders 77 (1) instructs the Minority Leader to chair the Public Accounts Committee in its duty to examine appraise and constructively critique the policies of the Executive Council and its methods of administering the Tobago House of Assembly; AND WHEREAS owing to Section 34 (3) of the Tobago House of Assembly Act, the Executive Council can act without prior approval of the Assembly subject to Section 34 (2) which mandates that in the exercise of their power, Members of the Executive Council shall be individually and collectively responsible to the Assembly; BE IT RESOLVED that this House support the request for the Executive Council to report on the following actions that may be taken without prior approval; off-budget expenditure; expenditure drawn on the contingency account of $50,000TT or more; the leasing or distribution of THA/State Lands; contracts or consultancy exceeding $100,000 TT in value; contracted employment exceeding $20,000 TT per month; appointments to State/THA Boards; the quarterly income and expenditure of companies incorporated by or on

87 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m. behalf of the THA that receives subventions or policy directives from the Executive Council; rental or leasing of properties for use by the THA that exceeds $50,000 TT per month; BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that report (s) of such actions be presented to members of this House through the Public Accounts Committee in writing every quarter.”

Thank you Madam Presiding Officer.

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER: Members of the House, we do have an original motion on the table from the Minority Leader, but we also have amendments that have been proposed. So at this time I will go through the amendments and we will then determine the final motion that will be put out as a question.

The first proposed amendment affects the first paragraph where it says: “WHEREAS the minority … and to be removed is the section that says: “must follow adequately with the responsibilities and activities of all Divisions in the THA to help keep the public informed; and to be inserted instead, is

88 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m.

“… is the minority’s role is not clearly defined by the Tobago House of Assembly Act 40 of 1996; Question put and agreed to.

The second amendment treats with the second paragraph, where it removes …Standing Orders 77, it removes 1 and inserts 2; it inserts …as outlined in the Standing Orders of 77 (1) and removes …appraise and constructively critique the policies of the Executive Council and its methods of administering the Tobago House of Assembly…, and additionally inserts …consider and report on: (a)

The Accounts showing the appropriation of sums granted by the Assembly to meet the public expenditure of Tobago;

(b)

Such other accounts as may referred to the Committee by the Assembly or under any law; and

(c)

The report of the Auditor General on any such accounts;

89 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m.

Question put and agreed to.

The next amendment seeks to remove the statement from the start of ….. Executive Council to report on the following actions that may be taken without prior approval, following actions that may be taken without prior approval; off-budget expenditure; drawn on the contingency account of $50,000TT or more; the leasing or distribution Request for the Executive Council to Report on Actions that may be taken without Prior Approval (Cont’d) of THA/State Lands; contracts or consultancy exceeding $100,000 TT in value; contracted employment exceeding $20,000 TT per month; appointments to State/THA Boards; the quarterly income and expenditure of companies incorporated by or on behalf of the THA that receives subventions or policy directives from the Executive Council; rental or leasing of properties for use by the THA that exceeds $50,000 TT per month; Inserted will be: …appointment of the Public Accounts Committee as mandated by Standing Order 77” Question put and agreed to.

The last amendment is to remove the last segment:

90 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m.

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that report (s) of such actions be presented to members of this House through the Public Accounts Committee in writing every quarter.

Question put and agreed to.

At this time Members, the question is: WHEREAS the minority’s role is not defined by the Tobago House of Assembly Act 40 of 1996; AND WHEREAS the Tobago House of Assembly Standing Orders 77 (2) instructs the Minority Leader to chair the Public Accounts Committee in its duty as outlined in Standing Orders 77 (1) to examine consider and report on: (a)

The accounts showing the appropriation of sums granted by the Assembly to meet the public expenditure of Tobago;

(b)

Such other account as may be referred to the Committee by the Assembly or under any law; and

(c)

The Report of the Auditor General on any such account

AND WHEREAS owing to Section 34 (3) of the Tobago House of Assembly Act, the Executive Council can act without prior approval

91 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m. of the Assembly subject to Section 34 (2) which mandates that in the exercise of their power, the Members of the Executive Council shall be individually and collectively responsible to the Assembly; BE IT RESOLVED that this House support the request for the appointment of the Public Accounts Committee as mandated by Standing Order 77.

Amendment proposed.

Amendment put and agreed to.

MADAM PRESIDING OFFICER:

The amended motion is therefore

carried.

ADJOURNMENT

Motion made: That the House do now adjourn to a date to be fixed.

[Hon. K. Des Vignes] Question put and agreed to.

House adjourned accordingly.

Adjourned at 4.43 p.m.

92 2017.04.27 ES 1.30 – 1.40 p.m.