Vanessa Bosåen

The Virgin Music UK boss selects five tracks that took her from a wannabe-Mariah to the direct-deal division of Universal – via her own label and some Camden pubs…

Vanessa Bosåen joined Universal a little over two years ago as head of the company’s UK artist and label services division, just as it was being rebranded from Caroline to Virgin

She was a natural fit for a role that revolves around dealing with independent labels and artists, having run one of the former and been one of the latter (straight out of university Bosåen played live shows all over the world, a onewoman purveyor of ‘dark pop’ and big nights). Reflecting on both experiences, she says: “It gives you a fundamental understanding that you really have to care about where every penny of your budget is being spent, and about every decision.”

It was her time as an artist that led directly to her launching a label, Regent Street Records. She says: “I was dealing with labels, managers and agents. And, to be honest, I had some really, really bad experiences. I met some terrible people. I thought, fuck that, I’m going to be in charge of every single revenue stream that I could possibly ever have. So I started my own company – a label, a publisher and a live agency – and I realised that I loved doing that stuff.”

Her next move was to instigate the pooling of catalogues from around 20 other indies to form a coalition called BritSync, with the idea of bringing some strength in depth to sync pitches.

That, in turn, led to her being offered a seat on the BPI board: “Suddenly, I find myself sitting opposite David Joseph, Max Lousada and Jason Iley, telling them I know everything about everything,” [laughs]. At least one of them was clearly listening… She describes Virgin as a company that does “artist- and label-direct deals”, adding, “I’m not sure we have the correct language yet for what we do. We are a distribution and services company, but we’ve evolved leading to the creation of a specialist imprint, Parachute.

“I also have to mention Mushroom, they’re a great partner for us [Virgin signed a worldwide deal with the legendary Australian label last year]. I think that’s a really exciting example of how Virgin can work globally. They’ve got artists who are starting to pop off in all different territories. And, as Virgin, we can focus on the territories where they’re working, and then import those stories to other markets, because we’ve got offices in 18 countries and we’re always closely connected.” both the standard of service available and the global connectivity of our territories to a level that I don’t believe the industry has seen before. And we’re doing that with some brilliant people who have certainly restored my faith.”

Within the sector, she says “Virgin is the gold standard, a VIP club”, and always looking “to operate at the very top end, both with artists and labels”.

In the last year or so the division has enjoyed notable success with, amongst others, Rema’s Calm Down (which has sailed past a billion streams), D-Block Europe (the most-streamed UK-signed artist within Universal last year) and an eclectic run of dance music hits,

Looking forward, Bosåen is excited about forthcoming releases from French The Kid (“I’m obsessed with him”), Krept and Konan (“a dream to work with”) and a new album by The DMAs via Mushroom. “I wanted to mention The Oozes as well, because if you haven’t heard of them, look them up, you won’t forget them. Then there are completely brand-new artists, who haven’t released anything yet, like Kaeto and Nadine.”

And if you think they’re a touch obscure, read on…

1. Ella Fitzgerald, Someone to Watch Over Me (1927)

I knew I was going to be a musician from the age of about four or five. The kind of vocalists that I was hearing when I was young were Mariah Carey, Whitney

Houston, Christina Aguilera, these huge voices – and I wanted to sing like that. Of course, I couldn’t, but that didn’t stop me trying!

I was just trying to belt it out, go higher and higher. It was my dad who said, ‘No, you need to think like Ella Fitzgerald, listen to her voice, listen to how she uses it.’ At the time, of course, I didn’t agree at all. And then I got older, and I was like, yep, I get it now. She’s so effortless, so beautiful. I used to sing this song and try and sing it like her ¬–impossible, of course, but she – and my dad – definitely taught me a valuable lesson.

2. New Adventures, How I Got My Devil Back (2010)

Let me explain [laughs]. I’ve gone super, super obscure, but you’ll see why. When we were teenagers, when we looked just old enough to get into places, my mate’s brother had a band called Reagan, then they were called Fans Of Kate, then they were called New Adventures, and we would desperately try and live their rockstar lifestyle.

To me, they looked like the kings of rock n roll. They were playing bars in Camden, they signed to an indie label, it was just a really exciting time. Me and my core group of friends used to follow them around, and we still go and see them when they get back together.

This particular song, I was always obsessed with it, and when I got married a couple of years ago I called the lead imagine how it could work at my wedding one day. And then it ended up being the song I walked down the aisle to and our first dance.

3. The Maybys, Hi My Name Is Indie (2015)

I’ve gone obscure again. But again for a good reason! When I was running Regent Street Records, I worked with loads of fantastic artists and musicians. And I knew I had to have a Regent Street song in here, but it’s impossible to choose, because these are some of my dearest and closest friends.

singer, Jez, and asked him to sing this at my wedding. Thankfully, he said yes, and it was just a wonderful moment to have all those teenage memories come flooding back.

I always related to the lyrics. It’s a big, emotional song from a band who basically always wanted to be Coldplay. I used to listen to it while I was out running and

The reason I went for this one is that it was written by two guys, Geoff and Carl, two of the most brilliant musicians and producers that I adore working with.

I was in the studio one day when they played this as a demo and I just fell in love with it straightaway.

I was thinking about why I fell in love with it, and I think it’s partly because Geoff and Carl are musicians who are also activists, in the truest sense of the word. They really care about the working class, the lives that they live, and that’s expressed in this song, in a really beautiful, understated way.

They actually didn’t want to release it, but I told them, I’m going to release this because I need this on my playlist, so we put it out on Regent Street Records.

4. Kaeto, Good Morning (2022)

This is an example of what we all live for as executives in the music industry: you hear a song from an artist who hasn’t released anything yet and you think, ‘Fuck me, that’s brilliant.’

And then I saw the video, and that is another great example of someone who, as an independent artist, doesn’t have a lot of money to play with. Quite often, in fact, we would say don’t make a video unless it’s going to add something to your song. And definitely don’t spend money that you don’t have on a video.

Then I saw the video she made for this, and my God does it add something. It really introduces you to who she is, and you can see that she’s made it with real intelligence.

As a case study for other independent artists on how to plant a flag in the sand, you don’t have to look much further than this song and this video.

5. Rema, Calm Down (2022)

I just couldn’t do this without including Calm Down.

We all got to listen to the album [Rave & Roses] early last year, and every single one of us was like, it’s Calm Down, that’s the track. It’s liquid gold in a song.

The album was released, and it did fine, but nothing really, really big happened. We were thinking, ‘Okay, what can we do? Because we know there’s more here than what’s happening. How can we move the needle?’

And then we got a call from Thomas Lorain, who runs Virgin France, and he said, it’s starting to happen here, I can see the green shoots, get everyone in a room and let’s go.

And so we all got together with Virgin France. Thomas started doing his magic tricks, things started to go brilliantly in France – and then the Netherlands, then Belgium, then Switzerland.

By this point, we were eight or nine months after release, and before all this happened, we wanted to go back to UK radio. But they were saying, ‘Nothing’s happening’.

Now we had No.1 in four or five countries, so we could say, ‘Listen, you have to play this track’. And that was the moment when the Selena Gomez remix came in as well. So we had more of a story, and that’s when it started to fly here in the UK and across the rest of the world. And it’s still going - its chart peak week is right now! [late February].

Looking forward, there is new Rema music coming soon. I can’t say too much about it right now, but what I can say is that this isn’t a one-off.

If anyone’s seen Rema perform, they will understand that this is a true global superstar level artist. The moment I realised that was at Wireless festival just over a year ago. He was doing his set and something happened in the crowd which meant he had to stop for a moment.

At which point, this 21-year-old artist delivered an a cappella version of the song he’d been singing and he was absolutely pitch perfect. And not just that, but he had complete control of the crowd. It can take some performers years and years to be that good and that sure, but he just did it instinctively and it was fantastic. n

Jamie Spinks was recently promoted to Head of A&R at Columbia, having joined the label last year after a decade at Polydor. He tells MBUK about his approach to the new role, the Polydor years, including his view on RAYEgate, and how A&R is evolving, but must stay true to its roots...

The great Columbian revolution is under way.

Sony’s frontline label – storied home of Bruce Springsteen, Bob Dylan, Harry Styles and Adele – is under new management in the UK.

New President Dipesh Parmar and Managing Director Amy Wheatley took over from outgoing President Ferdy UngerHamilton in December last year, and one of their first moves was to appoint Jamie Spinks as the label’s new Head of A&R.

It’s just reward for Spinks after several years as one of the UK’s most highly rated A&R executives, during which he signed the likes of RAYE, Jax Jones, Celeste and Mura Masa.

His musical journey began when he got a set of decks for his 15th birthday. He immersed himself in the worlds of garage, grime and The Streets and decided he wanted to be a producer. He studied sound engineering and design at Ravensbourne University, where he realised that, while he liked being in the studio, he was better at working with musicians than making music himself.

He wrangled himself an A&R internship at Polydor – then run by Unger-Hamilton – and, while Spinks spent much of his time making tea and answering Cheryl Cole fanmail, the location of his desk right outside Unger-Hamilton’s office meant that he could often pick the boss’ brains.

When the internship ended, he persuaded Polydor to keep him on as an admin assistant and started attending A&R meetings. Having brought in Bastille before they signed elsewhere, the label’s then head of A&R Ben Mortimer spotted his potential, promoted him and Spinks went on a golden run of signings, helping to reshape Polydor’s roster. When Unger-Hamilton left, Spinks stepped up to work with Ellie Goulding on her smash Brightest Blue album [2020].

He stayed at Polydor until UngerHamilton brought him over to Sony as an A&R and set up a joint venture on Spinks’ own Room Two label, a more boutique/ underground offering than the full might of Columbia. And this time, Spinks didn’t have to answer any fanmail…

“Ferdy’s an incredible mentor and friend and part of the reason I came to Columbia was to reunite with him, because we worked incredibly well together at Polydor,” Spinks says. “But it’s the music industry and things change very quickly. Dipesh has come in and he’s a great guy, I’m really looking forward to working with him. I have huge respect for his career and what he’s done.”

So, now, Spinks will be running Room Two – named after the part of the club that plays the more interesting, leftfield tunes, and inspired by culture-leading labels such as PMR and Black Butter – and Columbia’s A&R operations, with Parmar praising his “wealth of knowledge and experience”.

“Jamie lives and breathes A&R,” Parmar adds. “He is meticulous when it comes to details and has exceptional taste – that’s what sets him apart from his competitors. My background is A&R, my focus is the future of Columbia Records and to work alongside Jamie to mould what that looks like is truly exciting.

“Columbia is an iconic label with a diverse roster of incredible artists, but it was clear the team needed shaping for the future and Jamie is exactly that. We are very similar in our approach when it comes to signing and are laser-focused on signing culturally relevant exciting new artists with a desire to win.”

And Spinks is already making waves. He has signed fast-rising drum and bass star Venbee, having a big breakout moment with Messy In Heaven, to Room Two, and has also snapped up the “inspiring” Rudimental (“They’ve always been great at using where the underground is and turning that into music that’s digestible for the masses,” grins Spinks. “I’m really excited to get into it with them”).

But, before he gets stuck into the new role, Spinks welcomes MBUK into the Room Two office in Sony’s new London HQ to offer some revelations about the revolution…

How do you decide if an artist is right for Room Two or for Columbia?

It’s more down to the artist and their understanding of what Room Two is going to be, or if they’re coming from a certain place in culture. The intention isn’t for Room Two to be a dance label as such, but it is for it to come from a place of cool, slightly left-of-centre music.

If it’s just straight to market, big songs or a singer-songwriter that needs major label development and investment, then it’s more Columbia. It’s a gut instinct and a mutual decision; it’s happened naturally so far.

At Polydor, you signed a lot of new acts and then worked with Ellie Goulding when she was already a star. Did that require a very different approach?

In some respects. You have access to any songwriter you like. With a new artist you’re like, ‘If only I could get them in with that person’. With Ellie, you could get her into any room.

It was so exciting to be able to make those connections, especially in the US, with songwriters that are writing huge songs and working with Ariana Grande, Miley Cyrus and The Weeknd. Because the artists I had were growing, to have one at that level was a great learning experience.

You signed RAYE to her Polydor deal. What have you made of recent events with her?

I’m really happy for her and proud to have been involved with her development. I left Polydor before all that stuff happened.

There’s a lot of context to her journey, but it shows there are a lot of options for artists. I’m really happy that she’s had success – she’s one of the most talented people I’ve ever worked with and she deserves it.

Was the original vision for her music close to what she’s doing now?

We were always trying to figure it out together. I always had a vision for her to be an albums artist. At the time, pop music was driven by quite a formulaic process of what a hit song sounded like.

She was a victim of her own success in a sense. She’d go in with someone else and write a song for them that was massive. She was good at everything – writing dance music or R&B so, for all of us, it was like, ‘What path do we follow?’

Now is the right time for her, whereas at the time it was hard figuring out what a body of work sounded like for her. And with music the way it is at the moment, it plays to her strengths. She’s unique and unconventional in her writing and that’s what works now.

Why did you decide to leave Polydor?

I’d been there 12 years and it felt like it was time for a change. I had a roster of artists that were brilliantly talented, but I’d probably given my all in terms of what I had to give to them and their careers.

It was also a healthy personal change. Having a roster like that, I could have rested on my laurels, but the ultimate ambition is to keep testing and challenging myself. Leaving and having a blank canvas felt scary and I wanted the challenge of that.

There’s this slight imposter syndrome: Do I deserve this? Was it luck? Can I do it again? I wanted to see if I could develop a successful artist again and that pushes you to do your best work. It was the right time, and I had the offer of starting a JV and having ownership over a brand. I loved working at Polydor and it felt like my home, but it was time.

Columbia has historically been a rock label. Now you, Dipesh and Amy are here, will it become more dance-oriented?

Columbia has an incredible roster of successful global acts and has longstanding and experienced A&Rs within the team. Whether it’s Julian Palmer at the helm of

Rag ‘N’ Bone Man or Martin Dell working on George Ezra, I’m confident in the versatility of the wider team to be able to deliver the next generation of global acts.

There’s a reason Adele, Ed Sheeran and Sam Smith are the biggest artists in the world, because they’re 10 out of 10 in terms of talent, songwriting and vocal. And that’s what we need to be focusing on. Our ambition is to sign acts with the best talent and break them on a global scale.

There are so many different ways of A&R-ing at the moment: TikTok, data opportunity A&R, stuff coming from culture in drum and bass and dance music and then you have the old school development way of A&R – and it’s up to us to be doing all of that. You have to be open to all ways of having success.

What’s the secret to breaking artists in the current climate?

I don’t think there’s a secret. What I always look for is, obviously, number one, the talent, songwriting, the vocal. I’m looking for something different that I haven’t heard before.

Why has it been so hard to break new artists in recent years?

Because, over the past three years, the pandemic has shut down any type of scene. We’re seeing a drum and bass era that we’re managing to push Venbee through at the moment, but it didn’t exist when people weren’t allowed to go out. There was no culture, no DJs, no underground.

There’s been no community for anybody to incubate in, it’s just been, ‘Can I make the best content and the best TikTok videos?’ But that’s just a moment in time and can be gone as quickly as it comes.

Is too much emphasis put on TikTok as a way to break things?

There was, but it’s slightly more in transition now. During the pandemic, unless you were having a moment on TikTok, I don’t know if it was possible to break through.

It was an obsession, not just within the music industry, but outside of it too and it was the way you broke an artist. Now it’s an essential part of the campaign, but it’s not the only part, and that’s helpful.

TikTok or the way music breaks is very song-oriented, and we need to get back to trying to break artists and give them longevity. That’s how we’re going to have bodies of work and more sophisticated music.

With Celeste, her vocal is incredible –there wasn’t much of a decision to be made. But also, we realised there was something happening in the jazz community and there was a scene in which to incubate her. That’s really important.

Nine times out of 10 in the UK, an artist comes through a scene that’s incubated them or they’ve used really well to give themselves a platform. Ed Sheeran, Jess Glynne, Sam Smith with Disclosure: all artists that have made it having a community around them in the beginning. Whenever I see somebody with amazing talent and an idea of who their community is, that always resonates with me.

What needs to change so that the UK starts producing global stars again?

We’ve come to a point where it’s a song culture and there’s no long-term buy-in. The audience likes a song, then they’ll go off and like another one. It’s about learning from Dua [Lipa] and Ed [Sheeran]; it takes time and patience.

Not every song needs to be a hit record. We need to be less scared of every song having commercial success and more worried about how you bring an audience in and make them care about an artist. Creating that longevity will enable us to break globally.

What’s the potential for an artist like Venbee? Could she be a global star?

I think so. With her songwriting and ability to relate to a young generation, she reminds me of a female Ed Sheeran. She has the ability to evoke emotion from people lyrically and she’s saying things in a very direct and honest way which I haven’t heard somebody do before. She can evolve into a global artist and singer-songwriter.

Does the success of RAYE and other independent artists pose a problem for major labels?

There are a lot of options artists can take, but there will always be a place for the major label way of finding a talent and funding them in the long term. I don’t think it makes it harder.

We need to think about how long it takes and for us to be patient with an artist. But there’s still no better way of building a career and an audience and we’ll always be here to invest in really talented people.

I remember having to go up against XL in deals, there’s always been a boutique label experience outside of the

[major] system that people can offer. But with the investment we can offer, the A&R value and the marketing we can add, it’s still the best way to create a global proposition.

When it comes to signings, do you rely more on gut instinct or data?

I listen to my gut most. But, in the world we’re in at the moment, it can be helpful to have data – although it can also make things more complicated sometimes. I normally do A&R on feeling – if you have the feeling and there’s data to back it up, it’s great. Having just one is harder!

If you could change one thing about today’s music industry, right here and now, what would it be and why?

I don’t know if I have to be diplomatic, but the one thing I face frustration with being an A&R is, I would like to see artists have more control over the amount of music that they’re allowed to release.

In my experience, it’s really affecting for somebody who is creative to be restrained in what they’re allowed to put out. I would like to see a world in which we release more music for different purposes. I’d love to see people being able to do stuff with more freedom for certain audiences, for their underground audience.

It’s really important for artists’ mental health – not being able to put something out that they love. You’d have music that presents your artist as an artist and not just a hitmaker.

What will success look like for you five years down the line?

I would love to have a few artists that have stood the test of five years, some artists with longevity. I want to be having hit records but with artists that people are going to be listening to in 20 years.

The UK has always developed those artists that have transcended time: Adele, Ed – I’d like the next generation of those and to feel like we’ve done our bit in taking responsibility, breaking artists globally and having voices and songs that are going to stand the test of time. n

MBUK’s ongoing partnership with the fantastic Did Ya Know? podcast continues, with pod co-founder Adrian Sykes talking to David Miller about his incredible career, how and why he now lives and works in the States, and the problems with the UK industry…

Growing up, David Miller never really believed he would make it as a leading music industry executive in the UK. And, in a sense, he was right.

Importantly, though, he made that decision for himself – and conquered the US instead. It’s the equivalent of skipping the trial for QPR but then playing centremid for Barcelona.

After establishing himself through renowned club nights, most famously at the Kensington Roof Gardens, and then in tour management (for the likes of Jay-Z, Usher, Biggie Smalls and more) he moved into the recorded music business via BMG.

He enjoyed considerable success, but it was undercut by a sense of frustration. He says: “It was great, because it was hip-hop, it was culture, and it was positive for the most part, but it was also, you know, the same old UK, unfortunately, trying to hold that culture back.”

America was calling. Specifically, Mariah Carey was calling, offering Miller a key role as part of her New York-based global team. He moved across and has never returned.

After spending two years with Carey, helping to kick-start the second act of her career after a notorious low point, he joined Def Jam, where he became Senior Director, International Marketing & Artist Development. From there he joined Atlantic Records, where he stayed until 2015.

He now runs his own management and consultancy company, SevenGrand, and is also working with Roc Nation, having been asked up the company’s live game by founder, Jay-Z, who Miller has known for around two decades. “I’ve got a niche and I love it,” he says.

His story, and the level of his success across the years, however, are not niche. They are both, in fact, epic and significant.

You’ve spoken before about the admiration you had as a young man trying to break through for executives such as Andre Harrell, Puffy, Brett Wright, who are all, of course, American. Was there no one over here inspiring you at that time? There were maybe a couple, but the problem was that everybody kind of kept everybody else at arm’s length; there was no know, there was and is a lot of politics that go with this business: scratching the right people’s backs, knowing how to hold your own in meetings, understanding strategy and development – things that most people in our community weren’t exposed to, in that way, most of the time.

So I didn’t have any patience for it. And the Americans that I met embraced me immediately. It was like, ‘You’re the guy, come and do this for us.’

It’s interesting, because there would have been some Black British execs making their way at that time, who I’m sure you’d have known, but they obviously never had the same effect on you as their American counterparts… Because they never reached out Adrian! You were the only one… they didn’t care about anybody else, they only cared about themselves.

When did you decide you wanted to get even more inside the heart of the business?

unity in our community. And there were a few acts around that time who could have been really successful, but I don’t think the people around them took advantage of the opportunities in the right way.

We just weren’t united, and we just weren’t exposed enough to the frontline business and the sort of frontline marketing and promotion that was required. It wasn’t opened up to our community in a way that we understood. A lot of people thought you just make a record, you look good and you become successful. But as you and I

Well, it’s funny, because, if you remember, Usher was getting big, there was Sisqó, Dru Hill; these guys were basically becoming the pop music of the day.

But for me, having had all these accounts with nearly every single label, my opportunities to make money actually became less and less, because all the mainstream companies suddenly wanted to work with all the Black artists that I’d built my business on, because they were now mainstream.

At the same time, Ged Doherty and Mervyn Lyn asked me if I would come in and be a Product Manager at BMG. And I was like, Yeah, course, I can do that. Again, just being brave and super-confident – but actually having no idea what it was like to work within a record company.

So, I went in, and there’s Simon Cowell sitting opposite me, and all these executives who all knew what they were doing.

It was a fantastic experience in one way, but after a couple of years, as my profile started to grow, it became difficult in another way, because there were white executives in the company who didn’t like the fact I was getting pats on the back, that I was controlling the narrative and the budget and doing really, really well.

The promotions people, the radio and TV people, they thought that they were the bee’s knees, they were trying to tell me what to do. But Ged Doherty, let me tell you, that man had my back. And we did so much incredible work with Alicia Keys and Pink and Luther Vandross and Usher, who was the jewel in the crown, the whole Bad Boy roster, Busta Rhymes.

And then your next move is something I always admired, because it was a real leap… became her tour manager, and then her co-manager on and off for the last 20-odd years. And he’s still with her.

Anyway, Michael and her team asked me to do an event for them. We did an event for Mariah Carey in Hackney, if you can believe that. And she loved it. We all got on, we all talked, laughed and joked.

But then she had a disastrous album, Glitter [2001], and because of that she got rid of a bunch of people – it wasn’t the finest moment of her career.

You’ve got to believe in yourself, right? I was also very fortunate in that I’d struck up good relationships over a period of time, and a close friend of mine, Michael Richardson, became Mariah Carey’s security guy. But his ambition was to become more than that. And he did, he

She brought in new people, and I was one of them. I assumed the role of tour manager and international marketing exec. There was a small team of us that oversaw everything, it was crazy. I worked with her for two years. I was living in Manhattan and I was travelling around the world with the biggest-selling female artists of all time; it was incredible.

I think my experiences in the past set me up for that, working with Mushroom, with MCA, with BMG, Simon Cowell, Ged Doherty, being around all these people kind of helped me keep my feet on the floor when I walked into this amazing bubble.

And it was a successful run. She put out an album called Charmbracelet [2002], which kind of resurrected her. It was a good album, which set her up for the next one [The Emancipation of Mimi, 2005], which was incredible.

But by that time, I had two small girls who’d moved to the States and I needed to be at home more, because we were on a plane every three or four weeks.

And then Kevin Liles, Lyor Cohen and Julie Greenwald found out I was in America, because they tried to sign Mariah at one point.

I’d worked with them as a consultant in the late 1990s and they were like, ‘Hey, we need you to come work for us.’ That was Def Jam, and that’s what I did. I became an international marketing exec and ended up Head of Urban Global Marketing and Artist Development. That was the breakout moment of my career.

Has there ever been a moment in your career when you’ve been daunted by an opportunity, or wondered if you’d bitten off more than you can chew?

You wouldn’t be human if you didn’t. I remember a time when I was hired by Christian Tattersfield and Nick Raphael at Northwestside, who had the foresight to recognise how great Jay-Z could be.

We were staying at The Landmark and I remember being downstairs by the car at 9:45 and thinking, you know what, I’ve got a bit of time, they’re never going to come down dead on 10, so I headed back to my room to do something or get something.

At 10:05, I walked back downstairs and Jay-Z was standing by the car. He gave me a look, like, ‘Yo, I thought we were leaving at 10 o’clock, you know what I’m saying; I’m a different guy.’

I remember Ty-Ty, who was his best mate, pulling me to one side later on and saying, ‘Just so you know, Jay’s never late; don’t treat him like no other rapper.’ He gave me the speech. And then our relationship has grown from there. But that was definitely a moment.

Another was when I was on a private plane, with Puffy and Snoop. They’re drinking Champagne, whooping it up, playing music. And I remember thinking, I don’t think I can even describe to people what this feeling is, I don’t even want to tell people, because they might not believe me. You know, there’s lots of moments.

Will Smith’s manager, Benny Medina, oh, my God [laughs]. He was managing Puffy for a while and we were doing an event. He flew in late and we sent a car to pick him up.

He turned up and he said to me, ‘David, good to meet you, I’ve heard a lot about you.’ Then he pulled me to one side and said, ‘I notice you sent me a Mercedes 350 Saloon to pick me up from the airport. I’m not like a lot of other Americans, I know the difference between a Mercedes 500 and a 350. Don’t ever do that again, otherwise, you’ll be out of work.’

So yeah, there are little moments where you do doubt yourself. You panic, you worry, you think about going back to where you started. Are you going to blow your momentum? Are you going to lose this opportunity? Are you going to damage your brand? Because we’re not entitled Adrian, we have to work for every cent we make. And so if there’s a little wobble in the proceedings, it makes us very nervous.

Do you think you’d have had the level of success you’ve had if you had remained in the UK?

Is that a trick question [laughs]? No, absolutely not. In America, people want to succeed collectively. Everybody knows that they can’t achieve greatness on their own, it’s part of their culture – hard work and collective effort.

If someone needs something, or wants to move a project forward, or create something, the first thing they do is reach out to all the best people that they can find to help them achieve their goal, and they become a team.

The people in the UK that we grew up with did not connect and work together. If you’re not being supported by your own people, why would any other race or community reach out to support you when they can support their own? They’re all backing themselves, their cousins, their best mate’s sons, their brothers, the people they went to university with. Why would they reach out of their comfort zone to help someone else? Unless they’d formed a relationship with them, and even if they do, that’s just a one-off.

We all know three or four people back then who had jobs and did really well. But that doesn’t help the community, or us as a movement, or the culture. So, no, it was never going to happen. And by the way, here we are in 2023; can you name me an international Black superstar from the UK?

The word ‘superstar’ is synonymous with America. Why? Because they’ve achieved global domination and I’ve been very, very fortunate to be part of teams and labels that broke Kanye, that broke Rihanna, that broke Ne-Yo, that broke Flo Rida, that broke Usher, that broke Bruno Mars, and on and on and on. If you’re part of breaking seven or eight global superstar artists in 15 years working for labels, that’s pretty good odds.

Are [you] saying we don’t have the acts, or we don’t have the people to drive and achieve that success for the acts? Adrian, my brother, we definitely have the acts. The talent is everywhere in the UK, but you need to be united.

You can’t employ your mate who lives at the appetite or the ambition to support Black talent. They don’t have it.

You’ve got to sit down with an artist and you’ve got to explain what global domination is. You’ve got to explain the difference between having a hit on 1Xtra and having a hit on Radio 1. And then on the Capital network. And then in Scotland and Ireland, and then across Europe, how to work your way through France and Germany, the two major markets, and then get to Italy and Spain later on.

And once you’ve achieved that, let’s wait till the second album, maybe the third album, when you’ve created some consistency and bred some confidence within your label and your distributor, and some income, some royalties, then

Now, not every artist responds to that conversation. But I just named you seven or so acts that I worked with for 15 years. If we get a ratio of one every two years that achieves global domination, we’re successful, aren’t we?

You and I have been in the UK business 25 years, maybe longer, there hasn’t been one. There’s been potential. But there needs to be an appetite, there needs to be someone in place that can speak to the culture, that can help develop the culture, that can organise the budgets, strategize the development and create global success.

But they don’t do that. They sign 100 acts who have mates as their managers, they have one hit from each act and do a couple of hundred million streams. And then they say thank you very much, let’s move on to the next one. There’s no cultivation, there’s no development, there’s no conversation, there’s no commitment, none, zero. And I know the difference.

What advice would you give to those young Black entrepreneurs, here in the UK that are starting out on the journey and want to make a difference and want to ensure that their acts have longevity and are able to break in different territories?

If I want to dress up and look right at an important event, where image is important, I go to a stylist. If I need my teeth done, I artists that we’ve come across have, that needs to be nurtured and developed by the right people in the right way. And it’s sacrilege when it doesn’t happen. go to a dentist. I go to the places where people have expertise and knowledge and have been doing this for a long, long time.

So, no one’s saying that a new artist shouldn’t have his pal by his side. But the two of them have got to make a decision: okay, we can keep an eye on the books and the money, and I feel comfortable with you around, but we also need to go and talk to Adrian Sykes; we need to talk to David Miller; we need to talk to Danny D. We need to talk to people with career experience, who have made money, who are not thieves, who have a good reputation, who know people and can advise us, help us learn and build a career, to make sure we sign the right contract and we start off in the right way.

Because I believe, and I know you think the same way Adrian, that if someone has the level of creative gifts that some of the

Align yourself with people who know what they’re doing and who can be the intermediary between yourselves and the monster that is the music industry. Because it is a monster, a monster that’s going to chew you up and spit you out.

Being an incredible artist with a unique talent is not something to be sniffed at, it needs to be handled with care and attention. And that’s not happening.

What does the UK industry look like to you now, in comparison to when you first left it for the States?

It hasn’t changed, not a jot. There’s still no Black superstar. Until there is a Black British superstar that everyone in the building gets behind, in the same way that they’ve done with Ed Sheeran, Adele, Dua Lipa, then there is no change.

I see the way Polydor are developing Holly Humberstone, for instance. It’s a slow-burn commitment. She performed that BRITs, when most people haven’t heard of her. Polydor can see the talent, I can see the talent. I’m not knocking it. But it’s talent that they can relate to, and that the English public can relate to. And most of the English public doesn’t look like you and I, right?

So, why wouldn’t you put people in place that look like you and I to help develop the amazing amount of talent that’s in the country, to help you make money and build the reputation of your brand?

It’s all there for you. But no, they just sign them all, give them a single or twosingle deal, take the revenue and keep it moving. Because they know there’s another 50 going to come through the door tomorrow. And they’ll do the same with them. They have no intention of developing any of these acts, no intention.

Tell us more about what you’re currently doing.

When I was at Atlantic, in around 2012, I was approached by Blueprint Management, who at the time, were managing Drake, Kanye, Nicki Minaj, Jill Scott, The Roots, Lil Wayne and a bunch of others. They wanted me to come and work for them and oversee international market development.

My contract was nearly up, so I told my bosses I was going to leave. They said no, we’ve got this kid Bruno Mars, we’ve got to finish off this project, it’s very important to the company. So I said okay.

They made me feel wanted, money, blah, blah, blah, and then they gave me the flexibility in my contract to start my own management company, which is what I wanted my next phase to be.

At the end of the next contract, I said, ‘Listen, I can’t stay, I’ve really got to maximise my potential and get out.’ So I left.

And what I did, to make sure that I was protected, was I created two companies. One was SevenGrand Management, for the artists, and one was SevenGrand Entertainment, through which I offer services to labels to consult on global projects. And that’s what I’ve been doing ever since.

I did some work for Kevin Liles over at 300, working with Megan Thee Stallion, Migos, Famous Dex. I worked with a bunch of acts over at Empire as a consultant; I’ve rolled through it.

And then in 2019 Jay-Z came back to me and I started consulting for Roc

Nation, who have got an abundance of incredible acts. And then we all know what happened two months after that. We’ve only just recovered: festivals started last summer, budgets are back in place, 2023, boom, we’re off.

I manage a couple of artists, a couple of songwriters and producers, I consult for a few labels. That’s been my journey.

You ever coming back to the UK? No, no, no, no. If I came back to the UK, it would be because Jason Iley, David Joseph or Tony Harlow said, ‘Listen, we need to take advantage of what’s happening in the community. We need you to be MD of this, we’re going to pay you this much money, we’re going to take care of you, we’re going to treat you like we’ve treated every other mainstream executive, because we think you can do a great job.’

And then I would maybe consider it. Because I really do believe that Black artists in the UK need expertise, they need an outlet, and they haven’t got it.

How would you like to see the music industry progress here in the next five to 10 years?

I want them to do exactly what I just said, to employ people of colour and put them in positions of power, strength and influence, right alongside their white counterparts. We’re not taking their place, we’re working together. Because I think we’ve proved ourselves, when we were given the opportunity, that we can really be effective.

Now, I’ve seen the twins [Alec and Alex Boateng] become the MDs of 0207 Def Jam, which is great. I’ve seen Riki [Bleau] and Glynn [Aikins] get a label deal at Sony

[for Since ‘93], which is great [Aikins has subsequently been named co-President of RCA UK]. I’ve seen Austin [Daboh] take the EVP job at Atlantic, great. Trenton [Harrison-Lewis] being given a senior role at ADA, fantastic.

But nowhere near enough; nowhere near enough. Because they need more expertise, they need more experience, they need more wrapped around them. They’re the right people, don’t get me wrong, but they need more.

I can’t tell you how many conversations I’ve had with the twins, trying to teach them, trying to show them. And they’ve

I’ll tell you a funny story. I was working on Busta Rhymes’ project, Pass The Courvoisier. The video had Mo’Nique in it, she was on fire back then. There’s a skit in the middle of the video, and at one point Mo’Nique stamps on Busta Rhymes’ toe.

One of the promo execs sat in a meeting and said, ‘Yeah, MTV won’t play it because they’ll see that as a violent act.’ To which my response was, ‘Hold on a minute, did I not just see a Westlife video where they were fighting in church?’ And the room went quiet. Simon Cowell was in that room, and he started laughing, saying, ‘Yes, absolutely David, you’re right.’ been open-hearted and open-minded enough to come to me for advice. I’m trying to help them. They need that, you can’t be dropped in a situation and not be surrounded by the right support.

And let me tell you, Simon Cowell is not only an incredible executive who knows his lane, who wants to make money and be successful with what he knows, he is also a brilliant guy and he is a truth-teller. He doesn’t play that politics game.

What’s your ultimate message to UK Black execs?

We’ve got to become more united as a community. You can’t do it on your own. Being given a job in a record company is great, but you ain’t gonna have success unless you’ve got the whole building behind you. Now, look around the building and let me know what the ratio is.

He was in the building for three years. I worked with him extensively, I learned a lot from him. And he was the one that spoke up and said, ‘You’re absolutely right to make that comparison.’ And remember, Westlife was his act.

That promotions exec held that against me, didn’t like me, didn’t like the fact that I was supporting Black culture, and that I would ask why a record wasn’t being played.

I could tell you loads of stories, crazy stories, about Usher along those lines, but we won in the end. Because even though some people didn’t believe in Usher, within a couple of years, he became one of the biggest stars in the world.

So it is possible. We just have to believe. And we have to work together and support each other. n

This interview is taken from a brilliant podcast series, Did Ya Know?, which tells the often unheard stories of key figures in the British music industry, focusing initially on pioneering executives of colour. The team behind the pod includes Stellar Songs co-founder Danny D and Decisive Management co-founder Adrian Sykes. MBUK and our sister brand, Music Business Worldwide, are proud to be partners and supporters of Did Ya Know? You can listen to it wherever you find your favourite podcasts.