Ademosu

The first rule of Flight Club is… yeah, you can forget that. Because plenty of people are talking about the management (+ publishing + records) company that is home to a roster of writers and producers that have worked with artists from Wizkid to Beyoncé – and the volume’s only going one way.

The Flight Club was founded by Samuel Ademosu 10 years ago, initially more as a modest favour to a friend than a multifaceted music biz powerhouse. And, whilst it was and is very much his baby, a UK exec who’s already made a lot of noise in his own right played a role of significant midwifery.

Ademosu recalls: “I had a friend who was a songwriter/artist [J Warner, still a client]. I thought he was amazing and I said I’d help him find a manager. But I didn’t know where to start, so I did some research, found some names, some email addresses and started reaching out.

“One of the people I got a reply from was an A&R at Island. I remember going to meet him, sitting in the Universal reception for the first time and seeing all those screens and videos and the names of all the labels; it was kind of mind-blowing to be honest.

“I go in, completely green, talking about my friend and asking if this A&R guy could help me find a manager. He listened to me and said, ‘I think you should be his manager’. I was like, ‘What? What are you talking about?!’ I was quite offended! ‘I’ve come all this way…’ [laughs].

“But he said, ‘No, the passion you have, the way you speak about this artist… I could help you find a manager who has other clients making them a million pounds a year, and your guy’s going to be an afterthought. You’ve got the bandwidth, why don’t you do it?’

“That was [Dave co-manager] Benny Scarrs. And, looking back, I totally get what he was saying. He was telling me that my passion and belief would do more for this artist than anything else; that those were the most important ingredients and I already had them.

“Maybe seven or eight years later I saw him in a studio and he said, ‘Explain to me how you got from that day in my office to here!’. We had a good laugh about it.”

Part of that journey from there to here was the decision to not just manage a friend, but form a company, The Flight Club, and establish a roster, concentrating initially on writers and producers. One of his earliest signings was P2J, who has gone on to work with Beyoncé, Wizkid and others.

Looking back, Ademosu says he always planned to create “an entity, a hub of creatives to put behind artists who rely on us”, and build a brand to emulate the three labels he most admires – Motown, Def Jam and XL.

But we also believe that, if you’re good at what you do, whatever it is, then there should and will be fair financial gain at the end of the tunnel. When you’re really good at what you do, there always is – in the end.

It’s the same principle here. Not trying to make it too Kumbaya, but for the first 70% of our existence we made zero money. It’s only really been in the last few years that we can call it an actual business. Before then, it was run on passion.

When I started, I didn’t know anybody. People think I must have had contacts or a network, but the only person I got any advice from was Dumi Oburota, who created Disturbing London, because he’s from around where I’m from. He inspired me a lot.

So how did you go about extending your network and getting through the door?

From its base in South East London, The Flight Club hasn’t yet reached the levels of Ademosu’s holy trinity, but it has been involved in hits around the world, expanded into records and publishing (including a JV with Warner Chappell) and, 10 years after take-off, it’s still gaining altitude with attitude.

What would you say were the founding philosophies and core principles of the company?

We are artist-centric. We are here to facilitate whatever our clients’ dreams are. And we are purists, not in the sense of being snobs, but in the sense that art comes first and business second.

Number one was developing talent. Make sure our clients are exceptional at what they do. So I’m not trying to sell them via a conversation; I’ve got proof.

Some artists think a manager’s job is to make them famous. At Flight Cub, I tell everyone very early on: me and you, we’re your manager, both of us manage you, in partnership. And if one of us in that transaction is making it difficult for the other one, there’s an issue.

Then, how we managed to actually grow was by taking a series of risks. We would go to Atlanta, New York and LA without knowing anyone, just looking for opportunities.

A lot of people told us we were wasting our time. And, to be honest, we might have been, that might have turned out to be true, but we did it so many times… I don’t know, the sheer determination of it, just the brazenness of it… We were knocking on doors.

And the reason we went to those places is because we weren’t really getting many opportunities here. There was a specific sound coming out of the UK urban scene at the time, and if you weren’t doing that, you couldn’t get a foot in the door.

What would you highlight as the most important projects so far in terms of moving you up levels?

I would say there have been three: GoldLink, Diaspora [2019]. My guys exec produced that, and even us as managers, we were very handson with that. That project let people know that some guys from the UK could produce a project from start to finish and create a sound for an artist.

No. 2 would be Beyoncé, The Gift [2019]. Working so closely with Shani Gonzales [MD, Warner Chappell UK] and Steve Carless, who was Beyonce’s head of A&R, we got to learn a lot.

Working on projects with artists of that size, it’s very different, you get to see how forensic they are about the music, how they operate.

That opened so many doors – of course it did, it’s Beyoncé. But at the same time, it’s Beyoncé, attached to Disney, attached to Columbia, working with a film and a franchise that we’ve all grown up on. And it also heavily featured a sound that America hadn’t really taken into its psyche at that point, Afrobeats.

And the third would be Wizkid, Made In Lagos [2020]. That opened an untold amount of doors. But, more than that, it proved to us that our stubbornness, our determination and our will can always find a way.

There’s no boundary to what you can do. We didn’t think that we’d be working with some of the biggest artists in the world, or having meaningful discussions with some of the biggest label presidents around about the direction of a project or single choices, and them caring about what we have to say, but that’s where we are.

It’s come about because of some form of success, of course, because people believe in you more when you’ve done it. But you’ve got to do it first.

Starting out in the UK, how difficult was it to get international opportunities for producers and writers?

I wouldn’t say it’s easy. But everybody is looking for what’s next. It doesn’t matter how big you’ve been, or how big you are, you’re gonna be looking for what’s next. And that allows for opportunity.

There’s luck, as well – being in the right place at the right time, meeting the right person at the time. I don’t know if that’s luck, but whatever it is, you have to make the most of it when it happens.

Everyone knows the world has got smaller over the last 20 years, but I think, alongside that, people are more inquisitive now. People used to reject things more quickly, be that because of race, social class or where someone’s from, but now I think those things have become blurred.

People from very different backgrounds and social standings are all listening to all different types of music. Yes, at a show or a festival, you have standing tickets, executive boxes, VIP areas, etc. But everybody is still basically in the same place to see the same show and hear the same music. It’s a new type of energy and a new way of doing things.

Before, as a writer or producer, and I know this is an exaggeration, but if you didn’t have 40 years of No.1s behind you, you weren’t getting a chance with big artists. Now, someone can make something in their bedroom, send it out into the universe and it can take them anywhere.

Do you have plans to open offices in the US and beyond?

We definitely want to be in LA or New York, and I’d love to do something in West Africa. But that will be when the time is right and when it is necessary. It’s not something that we’re desperate to do just because.

You mentioned your expansion into records and publishing, part of that is being done in conjunction with Warner Chappell. What can you tell us about how that’s going?

Oh, wow, I’m so excited about this. We announced a JV with Warner Chappell last year, Flight Mode, working with Shani Gonzales and [Head of A&R] Amber Davis. We have an amazing relationship with them because they do publishing the way that it should be done – because they care.

A lot of artists and managers – everyone, really – bashes the majors. It’s quite easy to say, ‘My label didn’t do this, my publisher didn’t do that’. But our view is, if somebody puts a cheque in front of you, sometimes that’s enough. Let’s not dismiss that.

That’s somebody believing in you and funding you to pursue your dreams. It’s not, ‘Here’s a cheque. Oh, and here’s every opportunity under the sun as well.’ You’ve got to work; we want to work.

Whenever any of my clients have signed a deal, I’ve always given them all the same speech: this is the equivalent of you getting your apron at a supermarket on your first day; it’s time for you to start your shift.

This isn’t a scratch card, or a jackpot; it’s your cue to start working harder than ever.

What do you especially like and admire about the way Warner Chappell approach publishing in general and working with you in particular?

There’s a human touch. We discuss things, in real life, it’s not just an email: do you want to do this session? It’s much more a case of, we’ve identified these four things that can actually help your client, let’s all talk them through together.

Every single person that is creating music in the world, every writer and producer, wants to work with the biggest artists in the world. But why should they choose you? What’s the strategy? That’s what we talk to Warner about. So, maybe they already publish a certain artist’s favourite writers, well why don’t you start writing with them? Let’s get you on the radar, maybe you’ll get noticed… You’d be surprised how often that leads to a long-lasting relationship.

They’re honest as well. A lot of the deals that I signed in my youth, we were told certain things that weren’t realistic. I decided very early, on the other side of the table, as a publisher or manager, I would never do that. I would never say something to close a deal. If I don’t win a deal based on the truth then it wasn’t for me.

What are your plans on the record side of things?

We are actively signing things, we’ve put out a few projects and we’re really excited by that side of things. There’s a bit of doom and gloom around the records side of things at the moment, but I think what we have to do is genuinely be creative around how we deliver music.

Because we are on the ground, we feel the texture and the temperature of what’s actually happening at street level – and that’s our selling point.

We’re not saying we’re going to be the biggest and best label ever known to man, but we do have an energy that can match up with things that are happening and coming up.

We speak their language, we know the pressures they go through, we know the financial issues that they might be going through. We know how hard it is to get your ideas out when you don’t really have that many resources.

So, because we’ve lived that life, as a label it puts us in a good position to be able to help navigate the artists we sign.

Back on the management side, are you still looking to make signings?

We will always be in amongst it. But as you get older as a company, you tend to refine your remit and get a better understanding of what your role is in the marketplace. It has to be defined better.

For some companies, that might be different, they maybe just want what’s hot, or they just want to be in the game for the sake of it.

But for us, I feel like we’ve done over the 10,000 hours, and we’ve perfected our strategy for any given client or any given situation.

If somebody is coming into our system, they will get a unique, bespoke service. We can’t instantly plug and play with someone. And similarly, if we think a client is best suited elsewhere, we’re not gonna battle for them. It’s not a market share thing for us.

What can you tell us about some of the projects you have coming up this year?

I feel like this is going to be one of the biggest years we’ve ever had, and that’s saying a lot, coming off the last three years, which have been pretty monumental.

The things that are being planned this year are going to be as big if not bigger. Even though I can’t say anything too specific, I do feel like a lot of people are going to have a lot of music to enjoy this summer.

What’s the most important lesson you’ve learned on your journey so far?

That the music element is not the most important part; it’s the people, the psychological element. Managing a creative’s art is very different to managing a creative’s heart and mind, and I think that part has to be focused on more.

Because the art part is subjective. I can critique them from morning to night, which I used to do, even telling them something was no good, and they used to get really annoyed [laughs]. But I could be wrong, they could put it out and a million people might decide they were right and I was wrong.

So, for me, managing them in order to put them in the best possible position to create whatever they want to create is actually the most important thing; that’s number one.

I’d say the second thing is, as a manager, everyone says you’ve got to have loads of links and contacts. But The Flight Club has grown to where we are quite quietly; a lot of people still don’t even know what we look like.

So, I would say you don’t need loads of links, you need drive, passion and you need to do a lot of research. One thing I see from a lot of younger people who ask me for advice is that they don’t research.

Like, everything you’re asking me about is actually out there. I know you want to hear it from someone who you think has done it, but… Listen, I still research constantly now, I look at what other people are doing, what they’re achieving and how they’re doing it. I look at what people did 20, 30 years ago and see what I can learn from that; always be a student.

What’s been your proudest moment so far?

The Gift coming out was a proud moment. And the Wizkid show at Madison Square Garden last year, just watching the crowd react to the work of my producers and writers.

Obviously you see numbers on Apple and Spotify, but to see people actually singing their hearts out to music and lyrics that we were scrutinizing for hours and hours, day after day, month after month. That album was two years in the making, and to see people react like that… companies and I see the interns or the new A&R guys, I always want to ask, ‘How did you get here? How do you even know about these jobs?’ Because to me it seemed impossible. That’s why I started the company.

The other thing I’m proud of is my team, because most of the people we’ve hired at this company have not come from labels or another management company. We’ve learned everything on the job together.

Now, watching them manage artists, sign deals and deliver amazing content.

What’s the one thing you would change about the business? I would spend more time nurturing things. That is our USP, but because this business moves so fast, and there’s so much money on the table, it’s harder to spend as much time as I would like in development.

That’s something I learned and was able to pass on and then watch them go out and do it for themselves.

That’s important to me, because even now, when I go to labels or other

I would love to go back to the old days of development, where you actually physically worked with an artist to get them into their best possible shape for as long as it takes. People are thrown away so quickly now, and I would like to change that. n

‘RECORD COMPANIES STILL HAVE AN IMPORTANT ROLE TO PLAY IF THEY REPOSITION THEMSELVES IN THE RIGHT WAY’

Jeremy Lascelles had spent so long at the top of the music industry mountain that he decided it was about time he visited the valley below. Specifically, the Napa Valley.

In 2010, after Chrysalis Music, the publishing company where he had been CEO, was sold to BMG, he found himself out of work and – after a lifetime in an industry that appeared to be in a terminal, piracy-induced tailspin – contemplating doing something else for the first time.

“The last year at Chrysalis had been quite tough,” he says. “I really needed a break. It was the first time I hadn’t worked since I was 17. And I did think, time to do something different.”

A big football and cricket fan, he thought about a move into sport (“But they’re actually very scuzzy businesses – football makes the music industry look pristine and saintly!”), before deciding importing wine could be the future.

“I’m a passionate wine collector and I developed a real interest in Californian wines from my frequent trips to LA,” he smiles. “There were all these stunning wines that weren’t very available in the UK. I’d imagined I’d just be tasting wine and selling it, but I realised I’d spend most of the time filling in paperwork, dealing with customs and all sorts of shit.”

So – having reconnected with his old vinyl collection while free from the constant work pressure to listen to nothing but new music – he decided to stick to what he knows best.

“I realised I actually know quite a lot about this stuff,” Lascelles says, with trademark self-deprecation. “I’ve been quite successful, I’m quite good at it and I had this idea for something else I could do…”

That ‘something else’ was Blue Raincoat Music. Launched in 2014 alongside co-founder and legendary producer, the newly knighted Sir Robin Millar (“He’s still just Robin to me!” quips Lascelles), as an artist management company, it has since added a publishing division (Blue Raincoat Songs), bought the legendary

Chrysalis Records catalogue and relaunched Chrysalis as a frontline label. It partnered with Reservoir in 2019, giving it access to plenty of investment capital. And everything’s going according to plan: Millar recently found the pair’s original business proposal and discovered they had achieved “90% of what we set out to do”.

So, no wonder that visiting the Blue Raincoat office in the heart of Shoreditch is a throwback to the days when music HQs would buzz with excited talk of new artists, and executives would eagerly press records – actual records – into your hands with the zeal of true believers.

And there is a lot to be excited about at BRM right now. On the management side – which brings independent managers and their clients under the Blue Raincoat Artists umbrella, as well as developing acts and managers inhouse – new acts such as Nova Twins (managed by former VP of marketing, Rupert King) and The Mysterines (former SVP of marketing, John Leahy) are breaking through to join Arlo Parks (Ali Raymond), Phoebe Bridgers (Darin Harmon) and Cigarettes After Sex (Ed Harris) at the top of the alternative tree. And Lascelles himself is also returning to management, personally looking after legendary rockers Skunk Anansie – who he published back in the 1990s – in partnership with Big Life Management’s Kat Kennedy, following the retirement of the band’s long-time manager, Leigh Johnson.

“It was delightful to reconnect with Skunk Anansie,” grins Lascelles. “They never got the credit that they deserved as trailblazers. Kat’s brilliant and totally up for it, so it’s all systems go…”

In publishing, Blue Raincoat represents everything from Self Esteem to the Nick Drake catalogue (a forthcoming Nick Drake tribute album with a stellar cast list is “a great example of how one part of the business can help the other,” according to Lascelles). And while the Chrysalis Records catalogue – home to The Specials, Ultravox and Suzi Quatro – ticks over very nicely, frontline artists such as Laura Marling, Emeli Sandé, The Wandering Hearts, William The Conqueror and brand-new signing Marika Hackman are building a bold new future.

And Lascelles, far from sitting with his feet up and a cheeky glass of Cabernet Sauvignon, is at the heart of it all. This was the “hybrid music company” he dreamed of launching and, following stints as an artist manager (his brother’s band, Global Village Trucking Company), a tour manager (Lou Reed, Curved Air), a label executive (Virgin Records) and a publisher (Chrysalis Music), in many ways this is the multi-tasking role he’s been warming up for since entering the industry as a naïve 17-year-old in 1972.

“I’m changing hats all the time and sometimes I have to remind myself – am I the manager, the record label or the publisher?” he chuckles. “Sometimes I’m more than one of those things! My finance people wanted to try and work out how much time I allocate to the different businesses, and I said, ‘I haven’t got a fucking clue! I just do it. I go where I need to be…’”

Thankfully, where he needs to be right now is holed up in his office, talking to MBUK. And it turns out that the wine business’ loss is very much the music industry’s gain…

What’s been the key moment on the Blue Raincoat journey?

When we bought Chrysalis Records in 2016. That was the moment when all the things I wanted to do, I could do. The original vision was always to own a catalogue.

When we started Blue Raincoat, we thought it was probably more likely we’d buy a publishing catalogue than a recorded music one. Now, I’m delighted it was the other way round, because things have changed.

When we started, streaming barely existed, we coincided with its explosion. So, buying Chrysalis was pivotal, because I had something of substance and could build the team I need to run a label, market a catalogue and provide services for all the things that are riskier: releasing new records, doing publishing deals for unknown artists, expanding our artist management business… You can do that if you’ve got the financial security blanket of a catalogue that is consistently doing well.

And that was always the plan. When you start a new business, you want to minimise the opportunities for sleepless nights.

So, is anything giving you sleepless nights at the moment?

Jet lag! No, when they come, they tend to be about specific projects that I’m so keen to get done that they get in the way. But for the most part, it’s been okay!

Does your experience of so many different music industry roles give you an edge in negotiations?

Well, it should do, shouldn’t it? When I make a deal, I always try to put myself in the position where, if I was on the other side of the negotiation, would it be fair? A good deal is one both parties feel positive about. A good deal isn’t one side screwing the other. Well, in the past maybe it would have been, but I never subscribed to that.

I’ve always been mindful of the fact this business only exists because of the artists, they are by far the most important element in the whole landscape and if we fuck them over, what are we doing? Our job is to take great music to an audience, not to try and be bigger or more powerful than the people making it.

Are artists in a better position now?

Yes, without any question. They’re less reliant on having to have a relationship with a third party like a record company. Because it’s absolutely possible to function independently. You can do it all on your own – it’s not always the best thing, but you can.

After the streaming debate, do labels need to change?

They have changed, but not enough. Record companies still have an important role to play if they reposition themselves in the right way.

They are still potential providers of important resources, of which money is one of the biggest; when you’re trying to break an artist, it’s very hard to do without access to capital. Record companies are big investors, they take a lot of risk and I’m a great believer in the risk-andreward ratio in any business deal.

It’s not unreasonable they should get a proper reward for the risk they take, but it’s got to be proportionate. They’ve got to stop thinking of themselves as lords and masters and think more like partners in their relationships with artists. It’s about a fairer distribution of money earned and a fairer way of dealing with rights ownership.

Lots of people have made the parallel: if you’ve paid off your mortgage, why do the mortgage company still own your house? At Chrysalis Records, we make deals we think are fair and balanced: give the artist a big chunk of the upside and they will get their rights back after a time.

We try and structure something that we would think was a good deal if we were the managers of that artist.

How does the relationship with Reservoir work?

It works very well, that’s the simple answer. They are extremely good partners, very supportive, they’ve given us investment of working capital and a global infrastructure to plug into. They’ve got a lot out of it and so have we.

Are you left to your own devices?

For the most part. They’re partners and investors, so it would be rude and irresponsible not to tell them what we’re up to, and we talk all the time. I don’t just spend money without talking to them. But it’s a very good working relationship.

You relaunched Chrysalis as a frontline label at the start of the pandemic, by rush-releasing Laura Marling’s Song For Our Daughter. How is the label working out?

[Laughs] That was an unusual way of relaunching Chrysalis! We basically did the opposite of everyone else and brought everything forward.

It was a bold step in how we presented and released the record. Management of a frontline record label is, I guess, where my true passions lie, but what I liked about relaunching Chrysalis was, I didn’t have to go, ‘Right, we’re a record company, we’ve got to feed the machine and put a record out every month’.

I can put out eight albums in a year or no albums in a year and it doesn’t matter, because my team works across everything. We can make decisions on what to sign based on merit, rather than a panic about what we have got next.

You’ve made some moves into the catalogue acquisitions market with Reservoir. What’s your view on that trend?

I’ve got mixed views on it, to be honest. It’s every artist’s prerogative to do what they think is right for them, and you understand if an artist gets to a certain age, does the maths, and realises they’re getting this amount of money now, considerably more than they’re likely to earn in their lifetime. As a simple way to deal with your legacy and of capitalising what you’ve worked for, it makes sense. What worries me is that – and Reservoir is an exception to this, thank God – it’s not always music companies that are buying these assets. They’re going into the hands of big financial institutions who don’t really have a feel for the ups, downs and vagaries of the creative world.

They don’t do it because they love that third album, they just look at the numbers, which is not always the healthiest place for music assets to sit. Because these songs, these records, these artists, are not three-to-five-year things, they are here for our lifetime, the next generation’s lifetime and for ever.

They are part of the fabric of our existence as human beings on this planet. And the fact they’re now being overseen by people we wouldn’t even have thought about engaging with, venture capitalists and pension funds… If we’d had this conversation 25 years ago, we’d have thought you’d taken particularly strange drugs that day and you probably shouldn’t take them again!

What’s the proudest moment from your career so far?

It’s all about the artists, particularly when the odds are stacked against you and people have told you, ‘This ain’t gonna happen’ –and then it does.

David Gray is the biggest, most obvious example. I signed his first record deal to Virgin and then left soon after we made the first album [A Century Ends, 1993]. And then, against the advice of my then-boss at Chrysalis Music, I signed his publishing in 1996, thinking this guy’s just so good, something’s going to happen.

I was told, ‘Don’t sign an artist who’s had three unsuccessful albums, don’t sign an artist you’ve signed before, what do you think you’re doing?’

He made White Ladder with some of our help financially and resource-wise, but it was a self-made, self-released record which, initially, no one was interested in putting out. The album’s now at eight-to-nine million sales.

That was definitely a nice moment, because I believe so strongly in Dave and his talent and I still think he’s one of the most underrated artists around.

You worked for Virgin and Chrysalis, two indie giants. Can Blue Raincoat achieve similar status?

No! We’re never going to be of that size and stature. And that’s not particularly the ambition – although, frankly, I don’t know what the ambition is! I didn’t set out to ‘conquer the world’; if you set yourself silly targets, it’s easy to fail. But we stand for something that I hope is recognised by the artistic community as being a good place to be creative and have a strong partnership with.

If you could change one thing about today’s music industry, right here and now, what would it be and why?

I always used to dislike the fact that there were a small number of gatekeepers that blessed you with their patronage and said, ‘Yes, I will allow you to have your record played on my radio station or stocked in my record stores’. That’s gone, but it’s been replaced by a different set of gatekeepers.

And I don’t like the fact that you’ve still got a system that basically says, ‘You fit, you don’t fit, you’re right for our playlist, you’re not’. People are often very narrow-minded in terms of the music they deem worthy of being exposed.

And people swear by algorithms, but they cause as many problems as they solve. I don’t like being told what someone who I don’t know thinks I should like. I love different music – I don’t like the same-old, same-old, generic, neatly packaged product.

You still seem very enthusiastic about the music business – or are you just really good at faking it?

[Laughs] It’s the latter – I hate every minute of it really! No, I’m one of the lucky people that earns a living out of my hobby and passion as a kid. I love the artists I work with, the company we’ve built and the people that are part of Blue Raincoat.

The day I stop enjoying it, I’ll stop – or it will tell me to stop. It would be nice if I decide, rather than it tells me, ‘Your time’s up Jeremy, piss off!’ But I’m genuinely enjoying it and feel more energised than at any stage of my life. n

Chris Jones and Sarah Pickering head up the sync department at Sony Music Publishing UK. Here, they offer a sector health-check, look back on their big Christmas hits, share their thoughts on that Kate Bush placement and outline their ambitions for the year ahead…

Every year a handful of music business stories break into the mainstream and become part of the grown-up/evening news/ Today programme agenda rather than the entertainment side bar.

It might be Adele-levels of success, a game-changing tech breakthrough, a controversy or, sadly, most often, the passing of another legendary artist.

Far more joyously, occasionally – okay, once and once only – it is the use of a 37-year-old track in a hit TV show that sends a semi-retired artist to No. 1 around the world and introduces a whole new audience/generation to a genius.

Kate Bush’s Running Up That Hill, as seen in Netflix’s Stranger Things, was, without doubt, 2022’s crossover story and, more importantly, introduced millions of people to the back-catalogue of one of music’s unique talents. In doing so, it prompted the wider world to consider the nature, reach and power of sync in general.

Bush is signed to Sony Music Publishing, and it was that firm’s US team which struck the deal. The UK team, headed up by Chris Jones and Sarah Pickering

(universally known as ‘Pixie’), also had a stellar year, with songs in pretty much every high-profile Christmas TV ad and much more besides.

They took the sync reins at SMP two years ago – Jones as VP, Licensing; Pickering as VP, Creative.

Here, they discuss sync’s direction of travel, how they work with new artists, heritage artists (and each other) and their ambitions for this year and beyond.

What did your To Do list look like two years ago?

Chris Jones: Tim Major and David Ventura (Sony Music Publishing UK coMDs) were both extremely supportive of me and Pixie when we took over, they said they’d back us in anything we wanted to do.

We certainly wanted to make sure that both the licensing and creative sides of the business were fully covered in all areas in terms of staff and resource. We wanted to grow the business and continue to deliver for our songwriters.

For example, TV licensing was really taking off at the time because of the growth of Netflix and Amazon, Disney, etc. coming into the market. There was more opportunity to grow there and we wanted to make sure we were poised to take advantage of that, so we hired in that area.

Sarah Pickering: Personally, I really wanted to further strengthen the connections between departments, particularly A&R and catalogue. There’s a natural bond between sync and A&R and I wanted to develop those relationships.

How has the rise of the television streaming services changed the sync market?

CJ: It’s been huge for sync globally, and the UK has benefitted particularly from the new landscape. There have always been huge, worldwide TV shows, but in the past they were mainly US shows that came over here.

Now, with Netflix and Amazon, they’re producing content in local markets, which is then exported globally. We can license songs directly to the production companies making content for those platforms.

When I started doing TV licensing all those years ago, it was mainly things that fell outside the ITV and BBC blankets and Channel 4 and Channel 5 productions that were seen only in the UK. Now there’s frequent potential to license songs into a TV show that will be noticed worldwide. That’s a huge benefit to ourselves and our songwriters.

SP: On a financial level, it’s an avenue for better fees, because it’s not blanket. But also, it’s creatively more exciting. The big [TV] streaming platforms are so hot on their music, it’s so important to them. As a result, the briefs that we’re getting for those platforms now are similar in detail that we would have got in an ad brief previously.

Anything that’s on Netflix, Amazon, etc., whereas music used to be something they would often leave little budget and time for, now it’s pivotal.

They are getting amazing directors and supervisors on board who love music and who are dedicated to finding the perfect soundtracks and finding the next great sync like ‘the Kate Bush moment’, because they all want the next Kate Bush moment…

CJ: Probably the biggest change is simply that it’s more important than ever. When I started, it was very much seen as a secondary thing, and artists didn’t pay that much attention to it. Now, for new signings, it’s vital. A key sync can help break a song or an artist. When there’s new music on the way, writers, artists – and management – make sure they get it to us early so that we can start thinking about opportunities; they’re really switched on to that these days.

SP: I’ve seen it first-hand, how sync has either broken an artist, or just really, really helped them along the way.

We will always try to have meetings with artists and managers when they’re signed and establish what they are interested in when it comes to sync – and what they’re not keen on.

If that’s the case, how open are they to discussion and suggestion?

SP: Most of the time there is more of a discussion, otherwise I probably wouldn’t have a job [laughs]. There are times when they know exactly what they want.

Other times, they’re looking for creative input: they might have an era they want, or a lyrical theme that they want. Sometimes they’ll want something that maybe no one’s heard of, or has been forgotten about.

When they want something very new, that gives us a lot more creative freedom to suggest ideas, because they probably won’t be aware of those opportunities. That’s when we work closely with the A&Rs and hopefully provide a new artist with what might be an important moment that they otherwise wouldn’t have had.

What role does sync play in breaking artists, and has that role changed over the years?

Back in the day, that might have been a much longer conversation. Artists would have outlined various things they don’t want to be associated with, be that adverts or video games etc.

I would say at least nine times out of 10, anybody we sign now is interested in all opportunities. That’s partly because of the promotional and economic benefits, but it’s also because they know that it’s going to be something great creatively. They also trust us to pitch things that will be interesting and appropriate to them.

And it’s absolutely not always a money thing. Years ago I used to reference Made In Chelsea, now Love Island is a perfect example: it’s not a massive money sync, but it is huge for recognition, and not even just for new artists; it can also re-ignite a classic song – as can the power of the cover.

Sync in all forms can be a game-changer for artists.

How has the perception of sync changed even within record companies within the last few years?

SP: It’s changed enormously. The importance of sync now is vast.

COVID also changed the picture, because it helped replace money that wasn’t being made on touring during that period.

As an example, it’s commonplace for some of us in the sync team to meet an artist before we sign them now. Not always, but if they or their manager has said that sync is important to them, we will go into the meeting because they want to know somebody is going to be there working really hard to get them syncs, and that they’ve got a team behind them.

What have been the biggest changes during your time in the business?

SP: Probably the biggest one has been the proliferation of new platforms, be that NFTs or TikTok – and gaming has gone through the roof in the last few years.

There are also more in-depth artist tie-ins, it’s not always a straightforward sync deal now. There are brand partnerships, there are opportunities for bespoke sync work.

There’s much more involvement between our sync team, an agency, a supervisor, an A&R team; it’s a lot more inter-connected and project-based than ever before.

What did Running Up That Hill tell us about where sync’s at right now?

CJ: It certainly showcased the power of sync and what it can do for a catalogue on a global level.

We’re fortunate and very proud to publish Kate Bush, because of course everything starts with her talent and that song. And our US team takes the credit for the actual sync.

I think it was important that it was used throughout the season. There was one episode where it obviously featured prominently, and was central to the action, but it had already been heard a few times before then.

SP: I think fundamentally it reminded us about the power of a great song. I loved it because it was about showing a great song to a new generation.

It’s one of the reasons I love getting our artists to do covers. I know this wasn’t a cover, but it’s a similar principle: there’s someone watching a show who has never heard that song before, and probably never would if not for that sync. Then there are other people, a different generation, who are hearing it in a completely new way.

Everybody’s winning and either discovering or being reminded of a great song.

Thanks to this example in particular, there are now 15-year-olds who are going down a Kate Bush rabbit hole – and I can’t think of a much better result than that!

We’ve seen something similar with the Depeche Mode track, Never Let Me Down Again, covered by Jessica Mazin, which was used in the end credits of The Last Of Us. The reaction to that has been phenomenal and, again, it’s helped find a wider audience for a phenomenal song.

What’s the difference you bring as a department to your writers when it comes to winning competitive syncs?

SP: Our artists speak for themselves to a large extent. I love the SMP roster, and I couldn’t go in and fight for us if I didn’t love it and wasn’t passionate about it.

I also think the fact that we have such a diverse roster means there’s always conviction behind why we’re pitching. We’d rather pitch no music than the wrong music. But the make-up of our roster means we will always have something that we believe is perfect for pretty much any individual sync or situation.

Aside from that, I think clients know that we’re a close-knit team, we’re close to the artists, their manager and their A&R, so they will always have someone that can act quickly and solve any issue.

They know that, when they come to us, they’re getting a whole service. Everybody’s going to communicate with them, they’re going to be able to get hold of people and get an answer quickly. From my experience with supervisors and agencies, that’s really important.

CJ: On the licensing side, it’s about getting the best value for that song and the best deal for our songwriter. It’s looking at what terms they want to license under, looking at how big that song is, evaluating all these different factors, then coming up with a number and negotiating hard, but fairly, with clients. It’s first and foremost all about getting the best deal for our songwriters and catalogues.

What do you see as the most important trends and biggest challenges in sync right now?

CJ: I think the biggest challenge is keeping the momentum going. We had an incredible 2022, one of the best years in sync that I can remember. We need to maintain the value of our songs.

There’s obviously the risk of a global recession at some point this year, and if that happens, brands will spend less money, which could then affect us, so we need to find new areas of business.

SP: I think a continuing trend is going to be a new level of creativity in TV and games this year.

Musically, we’ve been seeing a lot more requests for UK hip-hop, which is great. Generally, the trends that are coming up in A&R, in terms of songs and artists, will inevitably cross over into sync.

Can you talk a bit about what made 2022 such a strong year for Sony Music Publishing in sync?

CJ: We had a really great Christmas for sure. We had shares in at least 15 of the big ads, mainly the supermarkets and department stores:

In the UK, holiday syncs have become a bit like the Super Bowl. All the brands and supermarkets try and outdo each other with the biggest ads, and music is almost always such a big part of those ads. Personally, the one I was most proud of was the John Lewis campaign. Obviously everyone wants to get a sync on that particular ad, and it was a wonderful version of All The Small Things coupled with a beautiful film. for artists on Match of the Day or Love Island. That might not seem massive, but sometimes we know the artists are big fans of those programmes, or it means a lot in terms of their Shazam numbers.

Credit obviously goes to Adam & Eve, the ad agency behind it, and also Leland Music, the supervisors. We control a third of that song, and we led the negotiations on it and got a really great result for the songwriters against some stiff competition from other publishers and labels who were all pitching.

They can really go a long way – and they’re the ones where you often get a personal thank you, which is always nice!

What are the headline ambitions?

SP: I was also really proud of the Yazoo/ McDonald’s/Becky Hill one, because we have a really close relationship with Becky, we worked on the cover [of Only You] and pitched it. It’s always nice when there’s a creative angle and not just a question of licensing something.

And there were a couple of really nice moments when we placed tracks

CJ: To continue to grow and find new avenues of business. About 18 months ago, for instance, we started licensing some songs into NFTs, which was interesting. And then, catalogue-wise, Sony has purchased some incredible catalogues over the last few years, like Bruce Springsteen and Paul Simon, and there is definitely some untapped potential in the UK there as far as sync is concerned; it will be amazing to find some opportunities for those incredible songs.

SP: Quite simply, to stay on top of our game and continue to obtain more and more opportunities for songwriters and artists. We’re signing such great stuff, new artists and catalogues, and that motivates us to try and get them on as much as we possibly can.