Trump supporters v Black Lives Matter: watching a real conversation unfold Amid the chaos and the clashes at Trump rallies Friday, a small group of people on opposing sides tried to reason with each other in St Louis – loudly, but civilly Lois Beckett in St Louis Saturday 12 March 2016 14.59 EST
As Trump supporters and protesters clashed outside rallies in Chicago and St Louis Friday, there was screaming, spitting and physical scuffles, and racial slurs were levelled at protesters. In St Louis, a small group of black protesters and white men in Trump hats tried something different: they had an actual conversation. After the rally had ended and many of the protesters had left, a few dozen people lingered and engaged in a series of loud but civil debates. A Muslim teenager explained why she felt Trump was demonizing her. A younger white man compared the police killings of black Americans to the killing of ranchers in Oregon by the federal government. A white business owner asked whether Obama had helped or hurt race relations. In a brief moment of agreement, 33-year-old Tamara “Bates” Dodd, a musician who grew up in St Louis, explained why “All Lives Matter” was the wrong response to black suffering. “The reason why we get offended when white people say, ‘Oh, it’s happening to white people too,’ is because it’s dismissive,” she said. “It’s like me saying, ‘Hey, my house [is] burning down,’ and somebody say, ‘Aw, shit, well, my house burnt, my cousins’ house got burnt too, weeks ago.’ Feel my struggle for a second, you know what I’m saying?” A man in a signed Trump hat laughed and nodded. “Yeah, OK,” 50-year-old Rudy Kelsey said. But the conversation broke down over the question of who is responsible for racism in America. As Dodd tried to explain the difference between prejudice and systemic racism, another protester shouted: “Black people can’t be racist. It’s impossible for black people to be racist.” “He said it, it’s over,” Kelsey said. A few minutes later, he repeated: “It’s over,” and walked away. Kelsey told the Guardian that he had been raised Amish, so he knew that white people faced discrimination, too. As a “self-made millionaire”, he said, he did not believe color was as much of an impediment to success as the black protesters were insisting. He said he would definitely be voting Republican, though he was not sure he would support Trump. Perry Jay, 27, from Jefferson City, said he would be voting for Trump. But he told the Guardian that the argument with protesters had an effect: “My mind got opened a little bit.” What struck him most, he said, was “how deceived a lot of people are … They think racism is a lot bigger deal than it actually is, because Democrats keep telling them that.” So what happens when Trump supporters and protesters actually have an extended conversation? Here are their exchanges on Muslim refugees, police violence, Obama, and a divided America.