HELPING LEADERS BECOME
B E T T E R S T E WA R D S .
REMOTE ROUNDTABLE:
BRIDGE THE GAP BETWEEN SUNDAYS Presented by: RSI Stewardship
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RSI STEWARDSHIP RSI was founded with a single mission: to help church leaders connect resources to vision. As America’s first company devoted to the stewardship and fundraising needs of churches, we have helped more than 10,0000 churches raise more than $10 billion over the past four decades. We know what works, we know the mistakes to avoid, and we know how to overcome the gaps. Today, we are more committed than ever to our original mission by empowering church leaders through a comprehensive capital campaign enhances the timeless principles of stewardship with data-driven strategy and technology-enabled tools to eliminate the guesswork of funding ministry. Your mission is important, but the challenges have never been greater. RSI has the experience and support systems to help you lead with more clarity and confidence than ever before. Contact us or download our latest resources on church giving: www.RSIstewardship.com
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CHURCH EXECUTIVE • B R I D G I N G T H E G A P B E T W E E N S U N D AY S
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Bridge the gap between
SUNDAYS A Remote Roundtable discussion about how to engage — and inspire — in a decentralized world Our Panelists:
Curt Swindoll, Executive Vice President, Pursuant
Derek Hazelet, Senior Vice President, RSI Stewardship
Ben Stroup, Senior Vice President, Fundraising Communications, Pursuant
Joel Mikell, President, RSI Stewardship
Kem Meyer, Communications Director, Granger Community Church
Attend the “Bridge the Gap Between Sundays” Webinar! On Tuesday, 18 October at 11 a.m. ET, join all these panelists — and the Church Executive staff — for a FREE webinar. In this 60-minute event, we’ll “deep-dive” on strategies for keeping people connected to your church all week long. Register now at: tinyurl.com/BetweenSundays
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“I don’t think it’s about the tools themselves; it’s about how they can remove the distance between the times when we can be together, in-person. So, I think it’s really odd to expect that a 75-minute chunk every seven days is going to create lasting engagement or movement.” — Ben Stroup Most church leaders would all fundamentally agree that discipleship and spiritual growth happens best in a personal way and that every person who walks through the door deserves to be noticed and engaged in a personalized experience to help them grow in their faith and commitment. What are some reasons that has become more difficult in today’s world? Ben: We’ve really moved towards a decentralized model of engagement. It used to be restricted to everyone showing up to the same geographic location, at the same agreed-upon time, at the same frequency. So, churches created great efficiency around communicating from the platform and through bulletins, inserts and posters … because everyone was there. Today, we experience church — and have community with one another — whether we’re all at the same place at the same time, or not. I could be in another country, but checking in the live stream. I could be participating the next week by listening to a podcast on my run. That changes the dynamics. Plus, even if everybody’s showing up at the same place at the same time, there are six days between Sundays. That’s a long time. A lot of life happens. If we don’t have a clear line of sight for how we bridge that gap, then we really limit our potential to create lasting relationships and develop engagement across the community. Joel: I’m thinking about my youngest daughter and her family. Just about every night of the week, they have some kind of activity — soccer, dance, ballet, cheerleading. Sunday has become a catch-up day. They stay home to get the wind back in their sails so they can start over again on Monday. Sometimes our daughter says, ‘Dad, I’ll try to go to church at least two Sundays this month. On those other two Sundays, when I’m not there, I’ll watch somebody on TV.’ So, I think one of the variables here is that people are just so busy. If there’s an emphasis only on communicating from the pulpit or platform, we’re going to miss them. Ben: I don’t think it’s about the tools themselves; it’s about how they can remove the distance between the times when we can be together, in-person. We’re able to interact with the people who are part of our community and our lives in an infinite number of ways. Some of us might use Snapchat or Facebook Messenger, or a combination of tools. I think people bring that level of expectation to the church. There can’t be boundaries. This makes me think about my 5-year-old son. He’ll never know a world where he can’t press on a piece of glass and talk to my brother in Thailand. For him, distance isn’t something that would prohibit him from engaging with someone around the world. So, I think it’s really odd to expect that a 75-minute chunk every seven days is going to create lasting engagement or movement.
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Curt: My wife Skypes daily with my daughter and our grandkids. We live in Dallas, and we’ve got family that are in Southern California. It really does close the distance. So, that’s one use of technology. And yet, a different use of technology runs the risk of putting people into broad, fairly faceless groups that have some general characteristics, but lack any real personalization. So, if we use technology that way, then it adds to the distance versus reducing it. It’s not necessarily the presence or absence of technology that makes the difference; it’s how we deploy it. Kem: The first step in overcoming some of the external challenges we’re facing is overcoming our own internal challenges. A few instantly come to mind. The first is that we tend to overcomplicate, or make next steps hard to find. Second, we communicate in ways that sound like it’s ‘all about us.’ For example, we talk about our discipleship environments like, ‘We believe you should sign up for our program’ rather than inviting people to take ownership of their journey by sharing ‘a few next steps to explore.’ While we might have organized, branded environments for the institutional discipleship path we provide, that’s not the single, linear line each person follows. So, why do we communicate like it is? I think a simple shift goes a long way; think more about how to help people find ways to take steps on their journey with Jesus inside the church, not how they can take steps in the church in hopes they grow closer to Jesus. That means we’ve got to release a little bit of control and think about ‘self-serve’ options people can grab onto, inside and outside the organized discipleship path defined in our church. Sometimes, in our noble efforts to professionalize our communication about the discipleship journey, we tend to sterilize it. When we champion simple, big-picture values — make one friend, read one new book, try one new class, etc. — we’re not making it all about us and our programs. Then, we leave room for God to move in an individual’s life. One of the things you pointed out during the last Remote Roundtable discussion is that church members are bringing their commercial expectations to how they want to give. How would you describe those expectations when it comes to engagement & giving? Kem: I believe people aren’t looking for more information; they’re looking for help making sense of the information that already exists. The best retail and consumer experiences aren’t necessarily the ones that pamper a customer (while that’s nice); they’re the ones that give the customer personalization options based on how they live and communicate in real life. It’s what keeps customers coming back. Things are organized by how people live and talk in the world, not by the organizational org chart or internal nicknames. They keep it simple. They think about flow. They do the hard work so the customer doesn’t have to. When I think about my favorite retail experiences, I think about how I don’t have to attend an informational meeting to learn more, or stand in line to register, or get bounced around different voicemails or emails trying to find the right person to answer to a simple question. Things are easy to find, buy and use. churchexecutive.com
Practically speaking, the biggest commercial expectations people bring into the church is not about fancier, sexier design or technology — it’s about ease of use. The fewer steps, the better. The shorter the wait, the better. The quicker the turnaround, the better. Curt: Some of the research we’ve done into giving intersects with what’s happening in the commercial space. One thing we’ve learned is that, early on in the relationship, people are looking for an immersive kind of experience — one that’s personally moving and meaningful. You don’t have to look very long to find how businesses are working very hard to create an emotive, engaging, personalized kind of experience where people feel like they’re part of a community. They’re not alone in buying whatever it is they’re buying; there are ratings, feedback and information. User groups facilitate a great level of sharing about that item and how it’s being used. Later on, it’s important that there be a sense of trust and satisfaction that comes from the interaction. We’re seeing the exact same trends emerge from some of the fundraising research we’ve done. Ben: I often say, ‘Your desire to be efficient as an organization does not trump my desire to receive relevant, timely and specific information.’ So many churches are designed to operate on almost an industrial model, where ‘everyone gets everything.’ And that becomes SPAM. Meanwhile, when I’m searching for baby strollers on Amazon.com, it’s giving me curated content around baby strollers. When I go to church and provide my email address — no matter what my age — I’m likely to get announcements for everything, for everybody, and it’s going to be my responsibility to sift through it. The people in the pews won’t tolerate a tidal wave of information that hasn’t been curated specifically for them. Conversely, when churches are willing to embrace more commercial, customized ways of communicating opportunities, it moves people from the parking lot to the pew, from the pew to the platform, and from the platform to a fully engaged disciple. It creates experiences that become mile-markers in their journey. But, it also requires a knowledge about who that person is — and that’s where technology becomes very important. When your church gets larger than a small group, you either have to default to the ineffective ‘efficiency’ model or reach for the tools that are readily available that let you engage in a more relevant, personal way throughout the week or month. Joel: One thing people want to be able to do is offer feedback on what they see happening at the church. Historically, communication in the church is a one-way conversation; a mechanism needs to be in place that allows people to give feedback around vision and ministry. How they feel and what they want. In the commercial world, you can do that. You can give feedback to Amazon.com. You can give feedback where you get your tires changed. Additionally, people want a sense of what their gifts are doing. More and more, people want to know that their giving is making an impact. When I give to some charities, I know the name and face of the child my giving is helping to support. Are these expectations common among both visitors, new members and long-time members? Or, do people at different levels of commitment to the church often have different levels of consumer expectations? Joel: On a personal level, when we moved to a new community and were visiting churches, we were looking more for a more ‘macro’ kind of experience. We were paying attention to the overall feel of worship, churchexecutive.com
theology and preaching. We joined a church that met those expectations. As new members, our expectations changed. We wanted to get to know the pastor and learn more about the children’s and student ministries — to meet those leaders and establish a deeper bond. Now, as members of that church for eight years, our level of engagement and expectations are completely different. Ben: That’s absolutely true: Different people want different need different information based upon where they are in their lives. As Joel was saying, people are moving from the outer rim of church membership all the way to full engagement. It’s important that we activate all the elements of what it means to be a fully engaged disciple within the congregation; generally, this involves a certain level of giving, attendance and participation. To this point, it’s critical that we connect the dollar with the impact. It’s also important to tell the stories that are important to different people. Securing a legacy gift might require a different stream of communication than securing a gift of $100 a week for three years. Likewise, those who are participating in the church, but not giving, need to hear more general stories of impact. We need to account for those differences. Kem: I think all this speaks to the need to equip our staff with the people tools and information they need — to empower church members with people tools and information they need to help people take next steps, relationally. The systems we set up and the technology we use should work in the background, making interpersonal experiences better, warmer. Not worse and colder. We spend so much time promoting and setting up a ‘thing,’ but very little time (if at all) making sure the people supporting the ‘thing’ — before, during and after — are equipped and empowered to give real-time, personalized attention in a variety of circumstances; face-to-face and digital. If we really want our church to show it cares about people in the little ways, we’ve got to spend more time with human touchpoints. What should churches be doing to meet these commercial expectations in their own churches? Curt: One thing we’re seeing more and more in the commercial world is journey mapping. It an illustrated picture—an infographic—of the key points of interaction you would like to have with the people in your church. For example, a church might map the journey of a new attendee, a firsttime visitor. If their map identified step 2 as membership, the church is making a mistake. What we’ve got to think about is, what’s an appropriate and most likely next step? How can I help lead and invite that person to take that appropriate next step — and the one after that, and the one after that? At some point, we’ll certainly get to membership … but it won’t be the first or second step after they attend for the first time. Kem: I agree that journey mapping is an incredibly valuable exercise for church leaders to work through — but only if they complete the work. Too often, I see well-meaning leaders complete the journey mapping, hand it off to the communications team to put in place, and move on. This kills me! Because they’re only halfway there! When we use digital communication tools to invite people to take the next step, we can’t just ‘set it and forget it.’ The success of the plan, what makes it really work, is what we do next as church leaders; intentionally thinking about the real ways individuals navigate that journey in real life, not on paper or a computer screen. If we’re really committed, we use the journey mapping as a role play tool with the storytellers and brand ambassadors in our churches (i.e., the people on the front lines) to help them help others navigate B R I D G I N G T H E G A P B E T W E E N S U N D AY S • CHURCH EXECUTIVE
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“Here’s what I know: Capable people are busy people. So, finding a team to do journey mapping isn’t a matter of finding staff who have time on their hands; it’s an issue of prioritization.” — Curt Swindoll through that journey. Then, once we launch it, we test our assumptions, constantly evaluating what’s working and what’s not, and making adjustments as we go. Derek: I agree with Curt and Kem, and I’d caution that sometimes people adopt technology and assume it’ll fix their problems. So, you end up with this stable of tools that may or may not be getting the results they are looking for. You end up managing the tool more than you’re managing the process. Regarding journey mapping, really think about what that looks like and leverage the tools appropriately. Then leverage the information that you most likely have at your fingertips already, regarding where those constituents or segments are on their journey. Then the process can be automated, in a much more personalized, and much more specific way. How can churches create personal experiences without the cost of such a strategy overwhelming the budget? Ben: The only way this works is if it becomes part of how the church operates. This isn’t a task that the communications director does. This isn’t an assignment to give to assimilation pastor. Rather, it has to be a thread that runs throughout the organization: ‘Everyone who walks through our doors, deserves a personal encounter of some.’ We have to allow people to interact with us in ways that actually move them to whatever that next step is which we’ve defined for them. When you begin to think about it like that, it becomes less of a project and more a mode of operation. An outlet. A vehicle that helps to accomplish the overall discipleship goal of the church. One of the most powerful things about technology is that it generally democratizes the process. At one point, the process we’re talking about would have taken many individuals to accomplish — to figure out who to send a message to, to set up the emails, to design the copy, to get it all ready to send, and then to physically send it out. With technology, once you’ve defined the triggers — and define the journey — you’re able to implement the process so that it happens whether you’re physically touching the “send” button or not. Derek: I would add that churches tend to default to hiring more staff to try to keep up. Another approach really is more about defining what the process looks like for your church, what the steps are (and how they relate across the demographics), and then leveraging all resources at your disposal to support that – including technologies and information — and if necessary, by hiring strategically around those desired outcomes, you can do a lot more with a lot less. This also lets me target my existing staff around the needs that require specific ministry engagement, because that’s what ministers want to do anyway. They’re called. They want to help. And, as Ben mentioned, the bigger your church gets, the more challenging that personal interaction becomes. Curt: I’ve worked with a lot of leaders. I’ve been to a ton of conferences where leaders are present. Here’s what I know: Capable people are busy people. So, to Derek’s point, finding people to do journey mapping isn’t a matter of finding staff who have time on their hands; it’s an issue of prioritization. I would encourage church leaders to realize that part of their responsibility is to proactively define the relationship the church wants 6
CHURCH EXECUTIVE • B R I D G I N G T H E G A P B E T W E E N S U N D AY S
to have with its people, especially the key steps, and then to start thinking about everything the church is doing to take people on that journey. What is the role of technology in relationships? And just as importantly, how can churches know when technology is overstepping its place and actually eroding (versus enhancing) the relational qualities of a church? Kem: Many church leaders approach technology as a silver bullet; whether it’s a social media platform, database, or communication tool, they jump quick to use it (because they see other churches using it) but never really think about how it supports their overall mission. We need to identify why we’re using tools first, and then learn how to tell stories about the technology we’re using. You can’t use technology to replace the human interaction, but you can use it to enrich it. For example, don’t say, ‘Complete that info card so we can update our database and stay in touch with you.’ Instead, say, ‘We don’t want to bombard you with information you don’t care about. When you update your contact information and profile, it helps us do a better job making sure our programs meet your life stage and needs. We want to pay attention to the things that have your attention. The information you share on that little info card help us do a better job.’ Curt: Technology shouldn’t be driving our communications and interactions with people; we should be driving the technology. In the church, we tend to point to technology as the answer to every question. Oh, we need technology. And yes, technology is indeed pervasive in our society. But, as church leaders, we need to ask ourselves: Are we beginning the conversation with a tool? Or, are we beginning with a relational mindset and a picture of what we want to create by way of the interaction we want to have with folks. I feel a lot more comfortable when I hear conversations about technology placed within the context of what we want to accomplish versus the other way around. Well, we’ve got this technology — what all can we do with it? Joel: Curt, I completely agree. When considering the role of technology in capital and annual stewardship campaigns — even in my own church — I have to remind myself that technology can never be the end; it must always be a means to an end. We are people, and we interact as people. While there’s a place for technology to help us with that interaction, it must never replace the personal relational aspect. What are some practical ways churches can begin thinking about how to leverage communication tools to move people towards deeper levels of engagement, commitment and generosity? Curt: I think it’s helpful to understand the gap that exists between where we are and where we ultimately want to go. What’s our vision for communication? For instance, we know that the more deeply a donor is engaged and tied into an organization, the more that person wants to hear from the organization. That’s counterintuitive, as there’s a general sense the deeper a relationship, the less a church member wants to hear from us. We want to avoid the ‘junk mail’ effect. But, if we’re communicating information that’s valuable, educational, churchexecutive.com
“You can’t use technology to replace the human interaction, but you can use it to enrich it. For example, don’t say, ‘Complete that info card so we can update our database and stay in touch with you.’ Instead, say, ‘We don’t want to bombard you with information you don’t care about. When you update your contact information and profile, it helps us do a better job making sure our programs meet your life stage and needs. We want to pay attention to the things that have your attention. The information you share on that little info card help us do a better job.’” — Kem Meyer engaging and invitational, it’s not ‘junk’ — especially if it’s information the recipient cares about. Ben: When you start to think about practical ways to communicate, you start looking at the characteristics of fully engaged members. Every church community has a different way of defining what a fully engaged disciple looks like in that particular community, and there are typically markers that go along with that. Ask yourself: What are the things we want every engaged member to be doing, saying, thinking or reacting to? And then, How can we create experiences and interactions — in person in real time (and in between those in-person, real-time experiences) — that will move them toward that? And finally, How can we step back and look at how effective we’re being towards this end goal? We put so much faith in the idea that if we operate good programs in an efficient, effective and cost-effective manner, that’s going to be enough to move people into deeper levels of engagement. Statistics have proven that our intuition, here, is generally wrong. Ben: I think we need to pay special attention to new members in this respect. When people get introduced, we tend to have what I call the ‘passion session.’ Come for a couple hours in between morning church and evening church, and we’re going to do a ‘download’ of everything we can possibly think of. Then, if you have a question when you surface again from underneath all that information, track us down. It’s a very passive, reactive approach. Imagine if, instead, you really thought about the next six to eight weeks of communication with those new members. A series of curated emails that tells them more about what you want them to know, all the while asking them to ‘read this’ and ‘go here’ for more details. You can gauge their interaction, behaviors and reactions. You might, for example, find that the next best step is to connect a new member with the missions pastor or the volunteer pastor. Regardless, you’re going to identify ways in which these people can begin to get plugged in and use their gifts in unique, specific ways. Derek: I agree; it’s about leading people to take the next step. And then recognizing that, with our current approach, we might be missing people — and how technology can help you be a better steward in this regard. You can’t just say, ‘Gosh, this is bigger than we can get our arms around.’ That’s not good enough.
links to resources, articles and content that already exists — they naturally take steps towards deeper levels of commitment in spite of any program or event we may offer. We can measure different activity trends along the way (social media engagement, live Q&A webinars, online service views and shares, family conversation tool downloads, etc.) the same way we measure event attendance. Are there examples of churches that are doing this successfully which the roundtable participants can share? Is this something only for large churches or is this something every church should be doing? Joel: I know two churches that are doing an incredible job at using technology to engage people in personal and relevant ways to move them towards deeper levels of commitment are Venture Church in Hattiesburg, MS and Mosaic Church in Denver. Derek: So is Long Hollow Baptist Church [in Hendersonville, Tenn]. What they’ve done is to use communication tools centered around giving. For a period of time, they strategically sent segmented emails to their givers. On the surface, it looked like, ‘Oh my goodness! We just sent 3,000 emails in four weeks!’ In reality, all those emails were broken out by people who were at different places, giving-wise. Some groups had given for the first time; there was a specific message for them. But, everybody who gave anything was acknowledged. Even if they gave online, they received some kind of acknowledgement. Instead of recoiling, the church saw open rates that were much higher than other religious institutions generate, on average. That was encouraging. Kem: Some of these real-world examples help us see that using technology can help us be more efficient and stewarding what we’ve been called to lead. The first step is to find out what the win is for your ministry today, and be aware that you’ll need to adapt as you grow. For smaller churches, you might need to consider something more agile to help you bridge the gap — but recognize that it can only helpful to a certain point. When you reach a certain size, some of those systems might break. Figure out where you are, what you need now, and don’t overcomplicate the solution.
Kem: I think a lot of churches are stuck in program-based thinking. We recognize a gap in our ministry, and so we create a program or environment to invite people to be part of. But, we forget that some people might not be ready to make that kind of commitment. The good news is that we can use technology to help them find what they’re looking for, when they’re looking for it, with no strings attached. If we think less about how to promote our program or event and more about how to answer the practical questions people are asking — with churchexecutive.com
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