BOOK CLUB KIT
A conversation with
CAROL WALLACE What inspired you to write Our Kind of People? Did this writing process differ in any way from
your previous experience writing both fiction
and nonfiction? ©
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I honestly don’t remember what got me started on this book, except that I wanted to write something that I’d enjoy reading. It was a long process, involving several years and many drafts and a great deal of patience, especially on the part of my editor, Tara Singh Carlson. I normally write fast. But it took me ages to figure out exactly who was at the heart of this story. At one point, for instance, the book included a substantial section involving Robey’s love life. An early reader whose judgment I value inquired why I’d given Robey so much space when he was a secondary character. I might have been so upset that I threw something that was on my desk. Possibly a keyboard. Which may or may not have survived the episode. In fact, I probably cut almost as much material as remains. There was a lot about the business development of the Elevated, which I can only say was a rabbit hole I occupied for a while. And in early drafts, Alice was the elder daughter, until I realized it would be more interesting to have the introverted Jemima be the pioneer in entering society. I’m pretty sure I even had a backstory about Selina’s debut all written out (it was very Edith Wharton-esque) but that didn’t survive for very long.
Our Kind of People takes place at such a turning point, both
innovatively and culturally, in American history. How did you perform
the historical research required for this story?
I have always had a soft spot for the late nineteenth century, maybe because I grew up in a Victorian house. I love the literature of the period, and one of the more successful books I’ve written (coauthored in this case) was To Marry an English Lord, which is about American heiresses marrying English aristocrats during that period.
So when it came time to research Our Kind of People, I knew my way around the New York social scene of the 1870s. The best part, though, was that this book is set late enough that mass production of images was pretty well established. For instance, the opera scenes in the book are set in the New York Academy of Music, which was torn down in the 1920s, but there are many images of its interior online that I could refer to when writing the scenes. It also helps that I’ve lived in New York for a long time, and over the years I’ve profited from cultural experiences that played to my interests. For instance, the Museum of the City of New York has a collection of glorious turn-of-the-century dresses and accessories. Helen’s big fan, the one she carries to the opera late in the book, is based on a fan in their collection that I saw in the 1980s and never forgot! Quite a few reminders of Old New York are still plainly visible. The north side of Washington Square in Greenwich Village, for instance, is lined with beautiful houses like Selina’s. And while the Hudson Elevated Railroad is fictional, several portions of our mass-transit trains do run on aboveground tracks, and I take them often. One of my first apartments in New York was on the third floor of a brownstone that certainly gave its shape to the Wilcox house—especially the mirror and hat stand in the front hall. And the Merchants’ House Museum on East 4th Street inspired the décor of the newlywed Wilcoxes’ home.
Are any of these captivating characters based on real people, or inspired by anyone in particular?
Annabelle van Ormskirk is not exactly based on the famous society doyenne Caroline Astor, but anytime you have a wealthy wife throwing her considerable weight around the New York social scene in the late nineteenth century, Mrs. Astor does come to mind. It is also a fact that the Astor money came from real estate, and that Mrs. Astor’s social power relied more on her bossiness and determination than on her charm. Sounds familiar, doesn’t she?
Mrs. Astor’s social power relied more on her bossiness and determination than on her charm. Sounds familiar, doesn’t she?
There are so many scandalous and gasp-worthy moments. What was your favorite scene in the novel, and why?
I especially relished writing the scene in Chapter 17 where Selina drags Helen over to the Van Ormskirks’ to confront Annabelle. There’s something so delicious about those ladies pretending to be polite while attacking each other with every (verbal) weapon at their disposal.
Whether it be romantic, familial, or social, there are various complex
relationships throughout the novel. Which dynamic was your favorite to write,
and why?
I’d have to say that all of Selina’s relationships were fun to think about because as a character she’s just a bundle of contradictions. She’s so pretty and delicate and feminine, but she has an iron will. And while she rides roughshod over poor Helen, she does truly have her daughter’s best interests at heart. The problem is that she simply cannot imagine herself into anyone else’s situation, so she believes that what would work for her would also be good for Helen. Some of Selina’s confidence comes from never having adapted to the way New York has changed in her lifetime. Or maybe she hasn’t adapted because she has no emotional imagination. And then, just when you are ready to write her off as selfish and cold, she reveals her great love for her family. She was quite unpredictable, even to me.
Although this is a Gilded Age historical novel, are there particular rules of
cutthroat high society that you feel still apply today? What do you feel harkens most to our modern-day rituals?
What a terrific question! I’m always surprised at the extent to which certain manners and rituals of nineteenth-century society have endured. If you’ve ever received an engraved invitation to a formal event like a wedding from one of the stationers like Cartier or Tiffany, you’re seeing exactly what might have been sent to Helen Wilcox. I certainly grew up answering those invitations in the traditional way: “Miss Carol Wallace/ accepts with pleasure/ the kind invitation of/ etc.” Tuxedos haven’t changed much in a hundred years. White tie hasn’t changed. Tables are set in a way that Annabelle van Ormskirk would have recognized (though she would probably have thought our meals rather skimpy). And don’t get me started on the thank-you notes!
Who was your favorite Wilcox family member to write, and why? I’d have to split that choice between Helen and Jemima. I’m a mother, so I relished writing about the domestic and child-rearing part of Helen’s life. It’s so clear that she would do anything to ensure Jemima’s and Alice’s and Nick’s success. But it’s also clear that her understanding of the social world corresponds more to the world she knew at their age than to what they face. It’s a natural dynamic in a family, isn’t it? The younger generation is always willing to push limits that their parents took for granted. And Helen’s anxious; I often picture her with a little furrow between her brows, as if she’s scanning any room for the smallest thing that might go wrong. That’s why I so enjoyed her behavior at the opera late in the book. She throws caution to the wind in a surprising way. As for Jemima, don’t authors always love their bookish characters? Don’t we assign them our own self-doubts, our own worries about how we appear to other people? I’m not saying that Jemima is my alter ego, but I could always find my way into her thoughts, and that wasn’t necessarily true of every other character.
Is there something you’d like readers to take away from the Wilcox family’s story?
Another wonderful question! This isn’t something I was thinking about while I wrote, but in the end I think what we can learn from the Wilcoxes is that there are often going to be conflicting interests in a family. Sometimes things aren’t going to go our way: We have to move for a spouse’s job, we can’t go to the school we prefer, we have to share bedrooms with siblings we can’t stand. I’d like to think that the Wilcoxes’ couple of bumpy years show us the value of flexibility and taking the long view. Which, alas, is so often easier said than done!
Without giving anything away, did you always know how the story would end?
I wanted a satisfying ending, to be sure. But it was a while before I understood what exactly that would look like. In a way, though, the larger challenge for a writer—larger than wrapping things up—is to figure out how your characters are going to be challenged in the course of the narrative. That’s what really shows us what they’re made of. So each of them has to go through a trying experience that resolves, but perhaps not in the way they’d imagined.
What’s next for you? Writing Our Kind of People was so much fun that I didn’t want to stop, so I’ve been poking around 1880s New York. I’m hoping I can build a book around two real-life figures, Collis Huntington, a married railroad baron from California, and his eventual second wife, Arabella. The title I’m working with is She Calls Herself a Widow. Which Arabella actually did, when she first came to New York from Richmond, Virginia, with her son, Archer. She lived very grandly, supported by Collis and ignored by New York society. Sounds like fun, doesn’t it?
MANHATTAN RECIPE
Ingredients 2 ounces bourbon or rye 1 ounce sweet vermouth 2 dashes Angostura bitters 1 dash orange bitters Garnish: brandied cherry
Steps Add the bourbon (or rye), sweet vermouth and both bitters to a mixing glass with ice, and stir until well-chilled. Strain into a chilled coupe. Garnish with a brandied cherry.
Recipe from Liquor.com liquor.com/recipes/manhattan-2
DISCUSSION GUIDE 1.
6.
What did you think of Helen and Joshua’s relationship throughout the novel as they encountered both riches and ruin? Discuss the different aspects you either admired or disliked.
Discuss the issues of social and economic class in Our Kind of People. How do you think these same matters are similar to or different from today’s issues?
2. Did you find some parallels between the Wilcox family and your own? If so, what?
3. What was your favorite custom during the process of the Wilcox girls’ coming out into society? Were there any you disliked?
4. In many ways, Selina represents the old ways of New York City society, antiquated customs that Helen and her daughters sometimes come into conflict with. Are there any customs or traditions from the previous generation that you find yourself moving away from? If so, why and how?
5. Do you feel you are more like Jemima or Alice, and why?
7. There is nothing more important than the Wilcox family bond in Our Kind of People. As the patriarch, do you think Joshua ultimately did the right thing for his family? Why or why not?
8. Which was your favorite scene in the novel, and why?
9. Were you surprised by the ending?
10. What do you feel lies ahead for the Wilcox family beyond the page? Where do you see each character ultimately ending up?