RADIO’S PREMIER MANAGEMENT & MARKETING MAGAZINE
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Vol. XXIX, No. 1 JANUARY 6, 2014 PUBLISHED BI-WEEKLY
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“Even if I wanted to go back, they are not paying talent anymore. I don’t think there are any good radio jobs to be had.” - Steve Dahl
January 6, 2013 | Volume XXIX, No. 1
RA DIO’S PREMIER MA NAGEMEN T & MARKE TING M AG AZI NE
PUBLISHER B. Eric Rhoads
bericrhoads@gmail..com
EXEC. VP/GENERAL MANAGER T.J. Lambert
tj@tjlambert.net
EDITOR-IN-CHIEF Ed Ryan
edryantheeditor@gmail..com
MANAGING EDITOR Brida Connolly
brida.connolly@gmail.com
CREATIVE DIRECTOR Kenneth Whitney
kenneth.whitney@gmail.com
DESIGN OF MOHR INTERVIEW Alfonso Jones
alfonso.streamline@gmail.com
PRODUCTION COORDINATOR Nicolynn Kuper
kuper.nicolynn@gmail.com
NATIONAL MARKETING EXECUTIVE Peter Doyle
646-319-5783
pmdoyle13@aol.com
NATIONAL MARKETING EXECUTIVE Renee Cassis
IN THE ISSUE 06 PUBLISHER’S LETTER
22 RADIO PEOPLE
08 WIZARD OF ADS
24 STATION PROFILE
Who Really Competes With Radio? By Roy Williams How To Make Your Online Stream More Effective, And More Salable
09 EDITOR’S NOTE
Welcome To Our First Ever All-Digital Edition
10 SALES
By Chris Lytle The Word-Of-Mouth Myth
12 DIALOGUE
By EVP/Radio Deborah Parenti Smarter Strategy, Greater Digital Return Alexander Kates
WRCN: Can An All-News Station Make It On Long Island?
28 COVER STORY
By Editor-In-Chief Ed Ryan Steve Dahl: Still A Broadcast Pioneer
35 INTERVIEW
41 42 43 44 45
20 RADIO PEOPLE
Charley Lake: Time To Go Fishing
937-371-8666
evelynyaus1@gmail.com
56 58 59
CHAIRMAN/PUBLISHER B. Eric Rhoads
Jim Robinson
jimrobinsonmail@mac.com
EXEC. VP/COO Tom Elmo
thomaselmo@gmail.com
EXEC. VP/RADIO Deborah Parenti
parenti@aol.com
DIGITAL SUCCESS STORIES
ACCOUNTING
Big River Broadcasting/Florence, AL WBLS/New York KGSR/Austin Connoisseur Media/Long Island Max Media/Denver
Randa Debrowski
SPOTLIGHT ON STATIONS KDKA/Pittsburgh WINS/New York WTOP/Washington, DC
61 BLAST FROM THE PAST
34
KGO/San Francisco
bericrhoads@gmail.com Twitter: @ericrhoads Facebook: ericrhoads
CEO
DIRECTOR OF FINANCE
By Editor-In-Chief Ed Ryan Sports Talk With Mohr Of A Twist Jay Mohr
By Jeff Schmidt Diamonds: A Sales Manager’s Best Friend
By Buzz Knight Live And Local Rock Kings
Evelyn Yaus
By Editor-In-Chief Ed Ryan NORM! Norm Pattiz Is King Of The Podcasts
46 INTERVIEW
14 SALES
15 INTERVIEW
NATIONAL MARKETING EXECUTIVE
Pete Gustin: Playing Radio By Ear
By Matt Sunshine Sales Coaching Vs. Sales Managing
11 ADVERTISING
646-808-6505
cassis2@msn.com
Laura Iserman
isermanstreamline@gmail.com randastreamline@gmail.com
CIRCULATION COORDINATOR Sue Henry
suehenrystreamline@gmail.com
EXECUTIVE EDITOR EMERITUS/LOS ANGELES Dwight Case Our Mission: Radio Ink’s role is passionately to empower radio management to be more successful by providing fresh, actionable, reality-based ideas, inspiration, and education in a quick, easy-to-read, positive, pro-radio environment.
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Send e-mail to edryantheeditor@gmail.com. Submission of a letter constitutes permission to publish that letter in any form or medium. Letters may be edited for space or other reasons. You can also leave comments on all of our online stories at www.radioink.com. Become a Radio Ink fan on Facebook at facebook.com/radioink; follow us on Twitter @radio_ink. Copyright © 2014 by Streamline Publishing, Inc. and Radio Ink. All rights reserved. ® Radio Ink is a registered trademark of Streamline Publishing, Inc. Radio Central,™ RadioCentral.com, and QuickRead are registered trademarks of Streamline Publishing, Inc. All rights reserved. RADIO INK (ISSN 1064-587X) is published twice monthly January, March, April, May, August, and October; monthly in February, June, July, September, November and December; Eighteen issues each year for $199 per year, Canadian and European subscribers $249 per year, by Streamline Publishing, Inc., 1901 S. Congress Ave., Ste. 118, Boynton Beach, FL 33426. Periodicals postage paid at Boynton Beach, FL, and additional mailing offices. POSTMASTER: Send address changes to Radio Ink, 1901 South Congress Avenue/Suite 118, Boynton Beach, FL 33426. All subscriptions, renewals, and changes of address should include address label from most recent issue and be sent to the Circulation Department, Radio Ink, 1901 S. Congress Ave., Ste. 118, Boynton Beach, FL 33426. Copying done for other than personal or internal reference without the express permission of Radio Ink is prohibited. Address requests for special permission to the Managing Editor. Reprints and back issues available upon request. Printed in the United States.
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12/24/13 10:56 AM
5 REASONS DAVE RAMSEY
Makes It Easy for You to Win 1. No Affidavits 2. Local Sales Support 3. No Outside Barter 4. Custom Endorsements 5. No Make Goods
Life-Changing Content That’s Easy to Air The Dave Ramsey Show not only gives listeners compelling content they can relate to, but it also changes lives. The by-product is unparalleled word of mouth and increased ratings and revenue for our affiliates without the typical hassles of syndicated programming.
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B.ERICRHOADS FROM OUR CHAIRMAN
Who Really Competes With Radio? TO REACH ME, WRITE: B. Eric Rhoads, Publisher RADIO INK 1901 S. Congress Ave., Ste. 118 Boynton Beach, FL 33426 Phone: 561-655-8778 Fax: 561-655-6164 bericrhoads@gmail.com facebook.com/eric.rhoads Twitter: @ericrhoads
I
n a video column for this special all-digital edition of Radio Ink, Publisher Eric Rhoads looks to Silicon Valley, and how “It seems that everybody wants to be in the radio business” — Apple, Pandora, and many more. But are these online music services real competitors to broadcast radio? Or is radio, with its
heavy spotloads, actually driving listeners to Pandora and its rivals? If that’s the case, radio needs to become more user-friendly, and fast. Watch to get Eric’s take on these and other key competitive issues for the year ahead.
B. ERIC RHOADS, PUBLISHER
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12/24/13 11:49 AM
MARCH 10 & 11, 2014 HYATT REGENCY MISSION BAY SAN DIEGO, CA WWW.HISPANICRADIOCONFERENCE.COM March 10, 2014
Moderator: Thom Callahan, President, Southern California Broadcasters Association
8:00 a.m.-12:30 p.m. Exhibit Setup
5:20-5:30 p.m. Información Romper
1:00-2:30 p.m. Registration (Exhibit Area)
5:30-6:10 pm. Medallas de Cortez Awards Presentation Presentation of the 5th annual awards, the only ones dedicated solely to Hispanic radio. Who will this year’s winners be? Who will receive the Lifetime Achievement Award? Don’t miss this always-moving ceremony.
2:30-2:40 p.m. Opening Remarks: 2:40-3:20 p.m. Keynote 3:20-4:00 p.m. Hispanic America: The Next Generation of U.S. Consumers. How Hispanic Consumers Are Changing Marketing & Media across America Who are Hispanic consumers, and how are they impacting culture and consumerism in this country? What does that mean for Hispanic broadcasters who are now competing for an audience they once dominated? How do you program to such a diverse population, one that now orders grits as well as empanadas? This opening session will open your mind to the nuances and opportunities that today’s Hispanic consumer represents -- and most important, how to capture an “unfair” share of the advertising dollars directed at them. Moderator: Rosemary Scott, VP/Research, Border Media and R Communications Glenn Llopis, Founder, Center for Hispanic Leadership 4:00-4:40 p.m. Convergence 360: Strategies for Becoming More Relevant with Listeners On-Air, Online, and In Dash From connected cars to mobile devices, radio’s content-delivery options have exploded for consumers. As programmers and managers wrestle over issues such as the benefits of 100% simulcasting, and positioning against new competitors like Pandora, digital platforms are a hot button topic for radio stations everywhere. Because Hispanic consumers tend to overindex in the use of many digital devices and social media, understanding tomorrow’s opportunities today is imperative for Hispanic broadcasters. Be prepared to hear some of the brightest minds offer their vision of where digital technology is going and how to capture the next wave. Moderator: Erica Farber, President and CEO, Radio Advertising Bureau 4:40-5:20 p.m. Local Direct Strategies: Money Making Sales Ideas That Deliver Cash Register Results Among Hispanic clients are many small, local direct businesses looking for ideas that generate floor traffic, move merchandise and ring cash registers. They don’t talk about “points” or “impressions” -- they talk about tangible results that are measured in terms of receipts at the end of the day. Our panel of sales gurus will present easy-to-execute sales ideas that can translate into more revenue for your clients, and your station, tomorrow. You’ll walk away with Ideas about how to combine digital and radio assets into creative client opportunities that can lead to bigger shares and stronger marketing ties. Bring your calculator to this session sowww.radioink.com you can tally the potential!
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6:10-7:30 p.m. Cocktail Reception
March 11, 2014 8:00-8:45 a.m. Continental Breakfast 8:45-9:25 a.m. Investment Strategy: The View From Wall Street and Main Street As the growing Hispanic population continues to fuel consumer trends and spending, how does that translate into Hispanic radio as a business? Our panel of bankers, brokers, and equity investors will consider the investment opportunities of Hispanic radio as an investment. What does a radio company, specifically a Hispanic radio company, need to look like in 2014 to attract today’s more cautious investors? And what is the environment for private equity, debt financing, and privatization options over the next 12 months for Hispanic radio operators? Moderator: Francisco Montero, Co- Managing Partner, Fletcher, Heald & Hildreth Elliot Evers, Managing Director, Media Venture Partners, LLC Andrew Salter, Media Investment Advisor 9:25-10:10 a.m. Politics Latino: Left, Right, or Down the Middle? The growing number of Hispanics in the U.S. has made them an increasingly vital voting constituency to all political parties and office seekers. But Latinos do not vote as a cohesive bloc. While nationality can play a role in political allegiance, Hispanics, like all Americans, have become a more diverse group with interests represented in all parties. They share the same concerns as most Americans: the desire for good jobs, education, and affordable health care. When the topic turns to immigration, however, the lines become more distinct. How will the need to influence and pitch the Hispanic voter in the upcoming midterm election impact radio? This is a session you can’t afford to miss. 10:10-10:30 a.m. Break
fortify and protect their market shares against increased competition coming into the market? And the big question: What’s on the horizon? How are millennials impacting Hispanic programming? And what is the best way to reach bilingual listeners -- in Spanish, English, or both? 11:10-11:20 a.m. Información Romper 11:20 a.m. -Noon Ties That Bind: Ratings, Revenue, and Methodology Are Hispanic and Urban audiences being represented accurately in PPM? Since revenue is tied directly to ratings, what are the implications when measurement methodology may be a greater influence on the format than the audience? Will Nielsen Audio do enough to measure Spanish-dominant Hispanics and are its universe estimates for market-level data accurate? Why are Hispanic stations that performed in the top three in diary finding themselves second-tier stations with PPM? What is going on with the Adults 25-34 sample, the lifeblood of many Spanish stations? Expect a spirited session that raises critical issues when research rubber meets the revenue road! Moderator: Charlie Sislen, President, Research Director Noon-1:15 p.m. Lunch 1:15-1:25 p.m. Hispanic Radio Trivia Answer fun Hispanic radio trivia questions and win prizes! 1:25-2:10 p.m. Keynote 2:10-3:00 p.m. Advertiser Super Session This session will provide some one-on-one with advertisers who will “tell it like it is” and give stations the opportunity to respond. These leading clients will tell you what they need from marketing partners, their expectations of digital and social media platforms and how radio can best enhance its share of their ad dollars. Plus, you’ll hear what they don’t need - and why - and how radio stacks up against the competition - where it shines, where It doesn’t. This session is guaranteed to be the best sales call you’ll make all week! Moderator: Karl Meyer, EVP/Western Region, Entravision Communications 3:00-3:20 p.m. Break 3:20-3:30p.m. Información Romper 3:30-4:20 p.m. Group Head SUPER SESSION Roundtable Hispanic radio’s leadership sounds off with their vision and outlook for the future of the industry. What they say is always a revelation and a window into what to expect tomorrow.
10:30-11:10 a.m. Inside the Minds of Hispanic Radio’s Top Programmers A panel of top Hispanic radio program directors address the biggest programming opportunities and initiatives facing Hispanic 4:20-4:30 p.m. formats today. Who, and where, are tomorrow’s top morning Closing Remarks talents? How can Hispanic formats reach into the general market for a larger overall share of listeners? What can stations to do *Sessions and times subject to change. December 10, 2012 | RADIO INK | 7
12/23/13 5:12 PM
ROYWILLIAMS THE WIZARD OF ADS
How To Make Your Online Stream More Effective, and More Salable
In this Wizard of Ads video for our special issue of Radio Ink, Roy Williams gives you several examples of what happens when a competitor like Pandora, is bashed as radio’s leaders are now doing when they say Pandora may not have the number of listeners it claims. Is radio making Pandora seem more credible by asking them to prove their numbers? Is radio actually driving buyers to Pandora? Roy explains how Pandora’s effectiveness stems from its lack of clutter, playing just three commercial units per hour. And he offers up the solution for how you can compete with — and defeat — Pandora. Roy H. Williams is president of Wizard of Ads Inc. E-mail: roy@wizardofads.com
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12/23/13 3:15 PM
EDRYAN
EDITORS NOTE
Welcome To Our First Ever All-Digital Edition
I
’d like to welcome all of our subscribers to the first ever digital- flipping a heritage Long Island Rocker to an allonly issue of Radio Ink. If you are viewing this issue on an iPad (or News format, and Norm Pattiz about how much similar device), you are about to experience Radio Ink magazine fun he’s having at PodcastOne. Also, Buzz Knight like never before. Like radio, digital technology allows magazines to interviews a few Greater Media stars about their offer so much more. You are always just one click away from even number one shows in Detroit and Philadelphia. more content. One click away from more information to help you In this issue we have success stories from sell more, manage better, and lead longer. You’ll notice website links Emmis, Big River broadcasting, and Connoisseur are accessible with a tap of the finger. Videos can be viewed easily, on Long Island. We have classic audio clips from without losing your spot on the page. More pictures can be pub- KDKA in Pittsburgh, WTOP in DC, and 1010 lished to give you every angle on a successful idea that your radio WINS in New York. Ideas. Ideas. Ideas. And we brothers and sisters are running in other markets. also have our regular contributing writers, some In this issue, we offer you the choice of reading through one of our of whom have recorded their columns on video. interviews or listening to the audio version of that interview — and Please let us know what you think by sendwith more pages, we have more interviews for you. Our cover story ing me a note HERE (that’s right, just click it with Steve Dahl touches on his subscription-based podcast, the time and my e-mail address will pop right up). he spent on the air in Chicago, one of radio’s craziest promotions ever, ED RYAN, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF and his thoughts on where future radio stars will come from. We Radio Ink Magazine also interviewed Charley Lake about his retirement, Jay Mohr on his www.radioink.com first anniversary as a sports talk host, JVC CEO John Caracciolo about
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January 6, 2014 | RADIO INK | 9
12/24/13 10:16 AM
MATTSUNSHINE SALES
Sales Coaching Vs. Sales Managing QuickRead
they are done right, the sellers actually enjoy them! Why? Because they receive good coaching, and they see actual growth as a result. Can you imagine a professional football coach not attending the practices or the games? Imagine if the coach of your favorite football team avoided any time in the field, and instead determined how a play was doing by relying entirely on the score. How could he give his players input on what they need to do to win or to grow professionally? He couldn’t! Don’t be that coach. Be better than that.
• A sales manager’s number one responsibility is developing his or her sales staff. Think of it as a coaching job. • Don’t coach from behind your desk. Get out in the field with your salespeople. • Be prepared to commit serious time to getting to know each of your salespeople and their unique set of talents.
Three Things You Can Do To Be A Better Sales Coach
S
ales manager. The job title carries a lot of weight. It usually involves either running the entire sales department or a significant portion of it. People with this kind of responsibility could easily let themselves believe that they should be spending their time managing the numbers, studying the spending, watching over the cost of sale, studying the attrition rate of existing accounts, and tracking new business. There is no doubt that these are all important job functions that fall within the responsibilities of the sales manager. But none of those responsibilities are as important as growing and developing salespeople. At the Center for Sales Strategy, we believe that the sales manager’s primary responsibility is to turn talent into performance — and you do that by being an amazing sales coach. The sales manager’s job is, first and foremost, a coaching job. And the sales manager’s dilemma is finding a way to focus primarily on coaching while also juggling all of the responsibilities listed above. The best sales managers know that it all starts with spending time out in the field, coaching salespeople rather than simply looking at the scores. They ride with them to the appointments, ask them questions about their plans for the call, give them feedback on what they did right, and help them to continually improve in the ways that make a difference. Here’s what they don’t do: ride along on the call in order to do the call and close the business. In order to be powerful, these can’t be surprise ridealongs designed to check up on and micromanage the salespeople. Effective coaching days are always planned and on the calendar many weeks in advance because this is not about catching people doing it wrong. This is about focusing completely on helping them to grow. When
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1. Commit to spending time regularly in the field with your sales reps, and remember to use this time for coaching rather than micromanaging. Schedule this in-field time well in advance, and share very clear expectations regarding the purpose and intended outcome of this time together. Also, this is a coaching call, so make sure to provide detailed feedback on what you saw that you liked and where the seller might make slight adjustments to improve. 2. Find the time to get to know each of your salespeople and build a development plan for each one. Learn what their goals are, how they prefer to receive coaching, and the kinds of recognition that feel good to them when they succeed. The more you can get to know your salespeople as individuals, the better you will be able to coach, teach, and motivate them. 3. Study and learn about their individual talents and strengths. In order to be a highly effective coach, you need to understand the natural abilities of each person you plan to help grow and create a clear plan to do this. This means creating strategies to maximize their innate strengths and providing them with opportunities to use and grow those strengths. Because each person you manage is wired differently, a one-size-fits-all coaching plan won’t work here. You will need a specific plan to grow each individual based on his or her unique set of natural talents. So here is the question you should ask yourself: Are you coaching your players while they play and practice? Or are you spending most of your time managing from your office? No need to worry! It’s not too late. Take time today to rearrange your priorities and make sure you are spending time coaching. I assure you, you will see your salespeople grow, and you will find that your business grows along with them. Matt Sunshine is EVP of the Center for Sales Strategy. E-mail: mattsunshine@csscenter.com www.radioink.com
12/23/13 4:40 PM
CHRISLYTLE
ADVERTISING
The Word of Mouth Myth
Radio advertising salespeople hear, “The word of mouth works just fine for me” objection a million times a month. In the Word-of-Mouth Myth, Chris Lytle shares a powerful concept and tells a compelling story of how advertising really works. Radio is word of mouth that you can control.
>>Watch the video for more.
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January 6, 2014 | RADIO INK | 11
12/24/13 11:56 AM
DEBORAHPARENTI DIALOGUE
Smarter Strategy, Greater Digital Return
F
ollowing our annual Forecast conference last November in New York, I had a chance to catch up with one of the guest panelists, Alexander Kates. Alex is an executive educator at Rutgers University and co-author of the book Strategic Digital Marketing. He’s also a digital strategist and marketing consultant to big brands, providing guidance and targeted training to executives around the world. And if that’s not enough, Kates is the founder of several companies, including Planga, the Jersey Angels investment group, and GRX Digital. In your opinion, what should be the one real goal of digital marketing?
Well, what would you say is the goal of marketing more generally? It’s sales, isn’t it? We justify marketing spend by determining it will increase sales more than it will cost our business. Marketing must create a measurable improvement to our bottom line to be worth it. But when it comes to digital, sometimes we forget. The only goal of digital marketing, like all marketing, is to generate ROI for your brand. Marketing is about getting results — and it doesn’t matter whether the spending is in digital or traditional channels. Marketers often use social key performance indicators to measure investments in digital. But let’s be realistic — do you have any idea how a retweet on Twitter, a like on Facebook, or a share on YouTube is going to affect sales of your product or service? These KPIs are only loosely correlated to sales, if at all. Quite frankly, that’s not good enough. We’re stopping short of where we should. Digital media is different. Unlike broadcast media, where our audience is fairly anonymous, we have an incredible amount of data from various sources that can be used to identify and measure our audience and their engagement with us. We can track where they came from, and what they do next. We shouldn’t, and can’t, rely on established formulas to estimate sales impact. We have to hold digital marketing to a higher standard. With carefully planned measurement, and with analysis of internal and external data, we can fairly accurately attach real sales numbers to these digital KPIs. This lets us begin to estimate and measure ROI for our digital investments. We always urge clients to use return on investment as the lowest-level basis for comparison when considering investment proposals. It may not be easy. Early on, it may not even be accurate. But it’s always worth it. It’s the only way rational decisions can be made today. ROI is the “be all and end all” of all marketing, and probably always will be. What’s the biggest digital strategy mistake you see companies making?
The biggest mistake that I see across industries is lack 12 | RADIO INK | January 6, 2014
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of sufficient investment in digital. I believe this is out of fear. Budgets are always tight. Margins are always small. We don’t always have a digital expert on staff to guide us through. Funneling money away from tried-and-true strategies and into untested digital channels is perceived as incredibly risky. Brands justify their lack of digital strategy by saying they “can’t afford it.” That’s certainly the simplest short-term solution, but represents the greatest risk of all to our brands. Fastforward five years from now. If you aren’t making investments in digital — if you aren’t testing the waters today — it will be too late for your company. The question we should be asking ourselves is: Can we afford not to do it? That brings me to what I believe is the second-biggest mistake companies make in executing digital: They allocate fixed budgets for digital channels without proper strategy or measurement plans. We read articles, see infographics, and hear experts talk about how consumers are changing. We know digital is becoming important, and throw money into it to allay our fears that we’re falling behind. This is simply wrong. Digital strategies must be constantly tested, refined, and reworked. They represent ongoing investments that are funded incrementally based on results. Partnering with an agency to develop something and then just forgetting about it doesn’t get us very far. We have to change our mindset when we think about digital, to embrace a “test and learn” culture. It’s the only way we can become proficient in digital and out-compete our rivals. You teach a course on creative viral marketing that helps managers leverage content. How could radio managers take better advantage of their enormous content assets in the digital arena?
Radio, and all broadcast media for that matter, is changing. We’re increasingly living in an on-demand world, where consumers are constantly connected to streaming content wherever they go. It’s this new world to which broadcast media companies must adapt. That said, the heart of all media is content. It’s the common thread between traditional and digital media that brings value to the advertising alongside it. The only difference between traditional and digital media is how the content is distributed. The good news for radio is that it has an incredible amount of excellent content — extremely relevant, hyper-local, top-quality content. The bad news — or, rather, the great opportunity, should you choose to view it that way — is that companies must leverage this content through new channels to continue creating value for listeners and advertisers. For instance, there is some radio content that could be enjoyed universally, that isn’t specific to a time or geograwww.radioink.com
12/23/13 4:33 PM
phy. This content could be modularized, organized, and made easy to access from anywhere at any time. It can include intelligence, to help listeners discover audio content they might enjoy. Clips could also be made sharable to perpetuate through social channels. Think Netflix for radio shows. Even local content that’s time- and place-specific has its place in today’s world. For instance, my Android phone (via Google Now) already knows that I’m travelling to Milwaukee this evening. It provides me with text weather forecasts and local news articles. What it doesn’t provide is nearly live, on-demand forecasts and news from Milwaukee broadcasters. I should be able to listen to relevant clips from the last half hour at the touch of my smartphone screen. This is definitely an opportunity — and I believe it’s just the tip of the iceberg. What have you found to be the most important traits of successful digital leadership? How do they compare to traditional leadership qualities?
I believe the traits that make an excellent business leader also make for a successful digital leader. He or she must be charismatic, driven, forward-thinking, and willing to lead by example. That said, I do believe that there are certain traits the best digital leaders within organizations possess. For starters, great digital leaders never accept the status quo — even if an industry has operated a certain way for many decades. They strive for an idealized vision of their entire company, beyond just their department or business unit. Many colleagues will snicker at their visions of grandeur that seem all but impossible — and yet they persevere. They never take no for an answer when it comes to technological or logistical hurdles. They never let people with more traditional mindsets deter them. Digital leaders do their best to stay abreast of the way technology is changing our world. However, what is even more indicative of this archetype is the realization that they always have a lot to learn. They are perpetual students. They realize that as quickly as the world is evolving, they absolutely cannot know everything. They’re not afraid to seek help outside the company, and realize that these partners too are still learning. Lastly, digital leaders are masters in taking calculated risks. They’re not afraid to make investments that might result in subpar immediate results. They’re willing to test almost anything, as long as success or failure can be determined quickly. They rely on data — the quantifiable results of their tests — to drive their decisions. Digital leaders never guess. They test, refine, and retest until their wild ideas find their mark. They are always willing to accept short-term losses to find long-term success. Looking to the future, what do you see as the biggest challenge to digital marketing?
Given the way that technology is evolving, there are a number of great challenges that will arise for companies over the next few years. To be frank, at present radio is so far behind in digital that discussing future digital hurdles is irrelevant. Right now, our own mindset and inability to think outside the box are the greatest digital hurdles. Many of the more exciting ideas I’ve been talking to radio companies about are possible with today’s technology — it’s the existing procedures, organizational structures, and inability to take big risks that are standing in the way.
When it comes to digital, there are some strategies that are fairly easy to move on quickly. These are the things every radio company should be doing, at a bare minimum. The first is establishing a set of best practices and procedures for digital channels. This would include guidelines for station websites, such as their design, user interface, optimization for search engines, and ease of mobile access. It would also include rules for blogging, e-mail, and SMS campaigns, and interactions in social channels like Facebook and Twitter. Detailed plans for investing in all of these platforms, including the cultivation of partners to develop and maintain the platforms when needed, is essential. Beyond that, I would begin investing heavily in developing new ways to distribute our stations’ content. I’d focus on acquiring enabling technologies and partnerships to make that happen. The technology exists today to allow relevant audio content to be distributed on-demand to the right audience at the right time. Even at the cost of shouldering investments without immediate return, I would be hell-bent on the singular goal of maximizing content distribution via online channels. Actually, it’s likely I would invest in the development of a platform that would do just that: unifying partners across geographies and station types to create a single point of on-demand audio consumption. The company able to do this, whether it comes from within the radio industry or outside of it, will be able to create immense value for itself. It will also give radio new life in this digital age — though it’s debatable whether one would call an on-demand audio platform radio at all. We tend to ask what digital can do for radio. What can radio do to make digital strategies more effective?
I’m so glad you asked. Broadcast media has another immense strength beyond its excellent content. Even as consumers increasingly flock to on-demand media, numbers still show that there is no more cost-effective way to reach large numbers of people than radio. Stations and radio shows can invite potential customers to like on Facebook and tweet (via hashtags) on Twitter to jump-start social campaigns. Many TV shows, such as The Voice and X Factor, have leveraged their massive viewership to create immense buzz in social channels, further extending the reach of their content and brands. Advertisers too can use radio to funnel listeners into further engagement via social media. For instance, one might utilize the reach of radio to drive immense traffic to a Facebook contest. It’s a great way to build a digital presence. It also develops an intimately engaged and interactive community of loyal station or brand enthusiasts. The end result of a strong digital presence will be new revenue opportunities, as well as more broadcast listeners. To a large degree, it isn’t that social media is displacing radio. In fact, quite the opposite is happening. Radio provides media efficiency that no social channel can match. The strengths of one media type compensate for the weaknesses of the other, and two types of media thrive in perfect harmony. When utilized effectively, broadcast radio and digital media have a symbiotic relationship that’s far greater than the sum of its parts. Deborah Parenti is EVP/Radio for Streamline Publishing. E-mail: parenti@aol.com.
Click here to learn more about Strategic Digital Marketing by Alexander Kates and Eric Greenspan.
If you ran a radio company, how would you approach digital marketing strategy for your stations? www.radioink.com
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January 6, 2014 | RADIO INK | 13
12/23/13 4:33 PM
JEFFSCHMIDT SALES
Diamonds: A Sales Manager’s Best Friend
Where do you find these people? Always be recruiting. It drove my family crazy when I would spend more time than I should talking with service people and salespeople wherever we went because I was always on the lookout. Here are my favorite recruiting sources. Job boards: Online sites that attract job seekers Networking: A constant, never-ending mission Social media: Here’s my LinkedIn video tutorial.
D
iamonds are the hardest naturally forming material on earth, known for their beauty, strength, and durability. Their name comes from the Greek adámas, meaning unbreakable or invincible. Contrary to popular belief, diamonds do not come from coal. They form beneath earth’s crust, from pure carbon. Over time, pressure combined with intense heat creates diamonds. The rough material then has to be polished and cut to perfect shape before it’s attractive enough to be a girl’s best friend. Great salespeople, like diamonds, take time to reach their full potential — and are not easy to find. The single most significant problem facing businesses today is finding, creating, and retaining top talent. Good people, great sellers, can solve most problems in any organization. Sales is a profession that can’t use robots, automation, or systems to replace talent. Sure, systems can maximize performance, but people — talented people — make any system work. Hiring mistakes are very costly to any business. Here are some shocking statistics: Over 80 percent of resumes contain false or misleading information. Half (yes, 50 percent) of your candidates will lie or exaggerate their accomplishments. There are even websites devoted to perpetuating fraud — take a look at www.nextdaydiplomas.com. For your own protection and benefit, you need a repeatable hiring process. A basic hiring process has at least seven components:
Radio ads: Here’s a sample radio commercial. CLICK HERE to listen. Professional associations: service clubs, Chamber of Commerce, etc. Placement offices/business schools: Become friends with your local university. Your team: Your sellers can be great referral sources, and you may find your next diamond in the programming department. Pay particular attention to the news department. Your clients: Call your best clients. They have people calling on them. Ask who they like.
As you find candidates and move them through your process, it’s important to be consistent. It’s too easy to fall victim to the joie de vivre of some candidates and start liking them instantly, and that can lead to your taking shortcuts. No doubt you’ve hired some in the past who did a better job selling in the interview than they did on the job. A consistent process can solve that problem. My partner Chris Lytle and I have a list of our favorite interview questions:
Specify the candidate. Who are you looking for? Recruit Read the resume Interview (at least twice) Test Check references Hire
What did you do to prepare for this interview? How’s the job search going? What are your 10 biggest wins in life so far? Tell me about your first job. Walk me through your sales process. Tell me something you accomplished on your own. Is there anything you want to tell me now, before I find out from someone else?
I believe there are some people who have a natural predisposition to become successful sellers — and I believe there are others who, no matter how much you work with them, will never become great sellers. In my experience there are five fundamental traits that help predict a person’s potential to become a great seller. Diamonds have their “four C’s,” but I believe sellers need five C’s:
Finding great sales talent can be like digging for diamonds. You have to get your hands dirty. Not all candidates will be diamonds when you meet them. Identify the must-have traits and competencies to be successful on your team. Then with a little polish (training) experience (time), and competition (pressure), you will create diamonds and solve your number one problem. Think big, make big things happen!
Compassion: the feeling of empathy for others Curiosity: an insatiable desire to know more Competence: expertise Creativity: the ability to solve problems Communication skills 14 | RADIO INK | January 6, 2014
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>>Watch the video.
Jeff Schmidt is EVP and partner with Chris Lytle at Sparque, Inc. You can reach Jeff at jeff.schmidt@sparque.biz or on Twitter and Linkedin.
www.radioink.com
12/23/13 4:36 PM
BUZZKNIGHT
Live And Local Rock Kings By Greater Media VP/Program Development Buzz Knight
O
ne of the most enjoyable parts of my job is being involved with great talent, so we at Greater Media are fortunate. We’ve got two shows, Preston and Steve at WMMR-FM/Philadelphia and Dave and Chuck The Freak (with Lisa) on WRIF in Detroit. Both are live and local Rock stations, and both shows are number one in their markets — and I’m so proud to be able to say that. So for this digital issue, I want to introduce to Radio Ink readers the crew in Philadelphia of Preston Elliot and Steve Morrison, and in Detroit, Dave Hunter and Chuck “The Freak” Urquhart.
Knight: Guys, what do you think it takes to be successful today in terms of the radio entertainment you deliver for your audiences? Preston: Number one, you go back to the basics that I think anybody needs to have working in their shows. You’ve got to be relatable to your audience. You’ve got to know who you’re talking to, and you’ve got to speak at the level of things people experience on a daily basis. And obviously, do it in an entertaining way. That’s a pretty generic statement, but to encapsulate it into one sentence, I guess that would be it. Now there’s a lot of minutiae that’s involved in each day, and what you choose to talk about or not to talk about. But you’ve got to be talking to those people in the general mass of your demo who come in and spend the day with you. It can be different every day, but you’ve got to remember who you’re talking to. Dave: Also we have to keep in mind as we go along in this day and age that people have so many options and choices. We really have to be good at editing ourselves and www.radioink.com
wrapping things up and moving things on, keeping the show moving at a good pace, where they’re not changing the channel because they’re bored with what you’re talking about. You’re constantly in motion, constantly refreshing the topics and moving forward at all times. Steve: I agree with that wholeheartedly. That forward momentum is a key element, because of distractions, and to have the audience know that if “OK, you don’t take to this, don’t worry, it’s going to change in a little bit and we’ll move on to something else.” But it’s also knowing when you have something that can go for a while, to stick with it. It’s getting the audience used to a kind of pacing that consistently indicates to them that you’re trying. So you may have a misstep here and there, but it will be corrected in short order. Also, keeping everything — the webcam, social media — in the moment so it becomes a much more comprehensive experience.
but we also can’t overanalyze or overthink things. The most genuine reaction we get is when things happen on the fly. As far as prep for our show, I think of it differently than most; it’s more myself trying to gather as much stuff to bring to the table during the day and then springing it on Lisa and Chuck, so we get a genuine reaction live on the air. There are definitely other bits that we will talk about and figure out how we’re
LISTEN TO BUZZ’S INTERVIEW WITH PRESTON & STEVE AND DAVE & CHUCK THE FREAK HERE. going to get into them and get out of them, but for us in particular, we realize the only way it works is if the reaction is genuine. If we talk it through too much and then we get on the air, it’s never the same. Some of the topics have to be something that comes up on the fly and surprises some members of the show.
WMMR’s NAB CRYSTAL AWARD NOMINATION VIDEO
Knight: You guys make this all look so easy. I know it’s not easy, and I know that prep is a key part of what you do. Can you walk through your prep process for each show? Dave: I think for the Dave and Chuck show in Detroit, we just realize that we always have to be prepared,
Preston Elliot (c) steps up as an aspiring foot model. He’s seen here with show members Nick McIlwain, Casey Foster, Kathy Romano, Marisa Magnatta, and co-host Steve Morrison January 6, 2014 | RADIO INK | 15
BUZZKNIGHT
The team: Steve Morrison, Marisa Magnatta, Preston Elliot, Casey Foster, and Nick McIlwain At an event for the show’s Zeta Eta Pi Sorority for female fans
Steve Morrison & Preston Elliot
In the studio on Halloween: Steve and Preston with
Casey Foster and Preston
Nick McIlwain, Marisa
Elliot
Magnatta, and Casey Foster
Steve: You hit it, Dave. That’s exactly the way we do it as well because we do seek that “in the moment” deal. We have enough of what we call our evergreen topics and things that are sort of in a list, but we feel each day out. It happens when Preston, who is driving the show, is able to move along. We’re never without something to go to based on the events of the day. We have a conference call every evening at six — you know, what’s in the news, what’s happened to
you personally, what do you want to throw in the list, what would most likely be water cooler stuff. And it’s there and then, once we get in, we see how the day is feeling. So it does have that fresh feel, and we can react authentically on the air. WATCH THE 2013 PRESTON AND STEVE CARDBOARD CLASSIC
MORE LIVE AND LOCAL IN PHILLY Pierre Robert has been with WMMR for over 30 years. WMMR PD Bill Weston says, “Pierre is the heart and soul of WMMR. His love and respect for our listeners is recognized and reciprocated by his legions of fans. Most of whom he has personally met, shaken their hand, and offered a sincere, ‘Good day, citizen!’ He’s the ultimate example of grass-roots, street marketing and the reward of loyalty that results. Pierre’s warm baritone is a comforting balm for his harried workday listeners, and his quacking laugh helps them recognize the joys of our shared experience.” Listen to Radio Ink Editor Ed Ryan interview Pierre Robert HERE.
16 | RADIO INK | January 6, 2014
Preston: Yeah, it’s evolved over the years. We’re coming up on 17 years, and in the early stages of the show, still trying to feel out and get our foothold, we would specifically — this might be advice for new shows and shows trying to get it together — we would plan out
exactly what we were going to talk about and when we were going to talk about it. And we did that ritualistically until we got into a groove and felt like things were starting to run on their own. We eventually let go of that and let things fall where they may. But if you’re a new show and you’re starting out, it’s good to have some structure so you don’t find yourself without something to talk about. Because if you’re in the infant stages, sometimes you can freeze up and, “Oh, my God, what are we going to talk about, we don’t have anything here!” But we since you asked about the prep stages that we go through, we do have a conference call the night before the show, every day, all six members (including our supporting members), just like this conference call we’re on right now. We just touch base really quick, what guests do we have on, what happened in the news, what hapwww.radioink.com
BUZZKNIGHT
Dave Hunter, Lisa Way, and Chuck “The Freak” Urquhart
pened to you personally. Jot the ideas down. We don’t necessarily say we’re going to go to or do these things, but we have a quick discussion, and then the next morning we all do our own individual prepping. I go through some of the sources and services. Steve will dig around on TMZ and various websites and news sites. Kathy Romano is prepping a newscast. Nick McIlwain is going through texts and e-mails that came through overnight. Casey Foster is securing our guests and making sure we have all of our prep sheets for current projects they might be involved in or in their past. Marisa Magnatta is gathering listener information and any contests we may be having, with people that need to be on the show, and structuring them and making sure that we have any sound bites we might want to go to — any particular sounds or song effects that might enhance what we are considering talking about. So we all do an individual prep session on our own, and once we walk in the studio and start the program, we’ll go through our first formal news in the beginning, and then we’re all just like, “All right, what do you guys want to talk about?” We have a list of stuff where we can say, “Hey, that sounded pretty good,” and we can react to the fact that Nick’s high school reunion is www.radioink.com
Lisa Way
coming up, and there’s just a ton of things that you can talk about — we take our own pulse. What are we excited to talk about? We have a loyal following and a firm audience, and we know that if we’re excited about it, then more than likely they will be excited about it, and they will tend to stay with us through the length of it. So there’s a little hard prep, but there’s a lot of loose prep, and we just kind of let the chips fall where they may. Dave: I think for us here in Detroit, some of the best shows we’ve had, no matter how much we’ve prepped, are when we couldn’t get to most of the stuff we’ve prepped for. It means that
things have taken off so much that we couldn’t get to all of the other 80 things on our list. Steve: Absolutely. That’s a home run. We have stuff that we can leave in queue, but the way we call it, the audience does really respond when things just come up the and show goes off the rails a bit, and eventually you ended up where Alex Haley couldn’t find the way back to the roots of the conversation. But the audience loves that because the perception we have — and I’m sure you guys have it as well — is basically, you’re with your friends in a big car driving to work in the morning and you’re just talking about stuff the way friends do, and that’s the vibe. Knight: So this is a digital issue of Radio Ink. How do you incorporate digital strategies as part of your shows? Preston: There are a lot of avenues. A lot of shows and radio stations will access their Facebook accounts, their Twitter accounts, their texting. We try to enable all that. We have a studio set up where one of our members, Nick Mcllwain, will be monitoring all things digital that are going on through the course of the morning — and by that I mean direct feedback via the texts and Twitter comments and stuff like that. We have a mirror monitor and he will put that stuff up for me if it’s January 6, 2014 | RADIO INK | 17
BUZZKNIGHT
CAMP OUT FOR HUNGER RECORD It’s an annual event for Preston and Steve, and the 2013 Camp Out for Hunger was record-setting. The WMMR morning duo camped out in a parking lot for a week’s worth of broadcasts to generate interest and motivate listeners to donate food to feed the hungry. The 2013 marathon netted a record amount of food and cash donations for Delaware Valley food bank Philabundance as listeners and sponsors donated 772,468 pounds of non-perishable food – 386 tons, filling 37 tractor trailers. And $240,521 in cash was also raised, even though the focus of Camp Out is for food donations. One cash donation of $80,000 came from an anonymous source who heard about Camp Out for Hunger on WMMR. Here’s local television coverage of the event.
worth looking at, and we’ll read any comments that are pertinent and can fuel whatever topic we might be on, which is great. There’s a lot of comedy that comes from stuff like that. There’s some really smart people out there that throw you some great fun one-liners, and obviously we include the listeners with contests via texts and Twitter. We just did one when we had our first snowfall of the year; we sent people out there to take pictures in their underwear, and we gave away some cash for one we liked best. On the social media platform there are a lot of avenues, so we do a lot of stuff digitally. 18 | RADIO INK | January 6, 2014
Steve: You guys could probably commiserate with this: Early on, the mindset was, “Well, don’t give them any reason to tune away from the show. And if they’re checking out the webcam, don’t give them any reason to go to the podcast” — right, right, right. Our thing from the beginning was just to embrace all the tech as much as possible. If they were seeking out the show, then instead of just saying, “Put up the best 15 minutes of the show,“ give them the whole thing. They’re coming to get your product. If they want to contact you through Twitter and Instagram and Facebook and everything, have a portal to get to us that way, and vice versa, so that remains part of it. We also have a TV rig here in the studio, and we just started doing The Daily Rush, which works sort of the way audio highlights would be for the show. We have video highlights that get into the “Weekly Rush” that goes on Comcast On Demand here. It gives people multiple ways to experience the show and repurpose the show, so that things that continue on the show will continue on Twitter or may have an element that continues on Facebook, and all of that works together to do one thing: to reinforce and have people circling back to the main thing, which is listening to the show in real time. Preston: Our stance on that, while people were saying, “Don’t give them a chance to tune away from the radio to podcasting,” we would say this to the audience: “We know that you love the show, and maybe your friends don’t get it and that’s cool and whatever, but it’s hard to get them to change their listening habits in the car. So do us a favor, take that podcast, grab it and have them sit down and listen to it when they’re off from work, over at your house, hanging out. Give them a chance to sample something they normally would never change their radio station for.” And you know what happened? We got a shitload of people that tune in who would have never
listened to us, and it worked out great. Yeah, true. Dave: I think, you know, we do all the exact same stuff. We only have one guy, but other than that, we also make sure that we are active throughout the day and on the weekends, so that when the show’s not on the air, we are at a show or are out and about, we still have something funny to share on social media to make sure we are continually active, to make that connection even when the show’s not live. Steve: Yeah, that’s great. That’s absolutely good to know, and I’m sure you guys embrace this as well, is that: being out and about. That live and local thing is so hugely important. You know there’s a standing rule here with us that we don’t give a rat’s ass if any of the show members are at a wake for a beloved family member — if someone comes over and they want to take a selfie, well, you frigging do it. Be out and be accessible that way, and don’t just be what they listen to. Be what’s in the day planner. Be the people they see out and about around town. That sort of lock is just invaluable, being out and being active and being sort of a social network show on the weekends, that’s great. I’m sure that really works to your advantage. I know that we get a lot out of it as well. Dave: Be that relatability. They know who we are. They know us off and on the air, and we just build that connection a little more. Knight: The value of great talent and great live and local talent is a critical discussion in the radio business. And, being so proud of you guys, it’s a discussion we’re proud to showcase. Do you have any concept on where the next Preston & Steve, or Dave and Chuck with Lisa, are coming from? How does radio do a better job of incubating new talent? Steve: You know it’s funny because when we were at the station before this, a search had gone on and they wanted us to come over www.radioink.com
BUZZKNIGHT
Beloved WMMR
Casey Foster and Kathy
afternoon personality
Romano duke it out in
Pierre Robert
WMMR’s “Battle of the Counties”
to MMR. And they were searching across the country for shows, and you know, you’re your own worst critic. So we’re like, “OK, are we going to be off the table?” Thankfully, everything kept coming back to us. So when we’re asked this question — at least for me, Preston, I don’t know if you agree with this — it’s hard to say where that will happen. A lot of times it’s just a lightningin-a-bottle situation, and allowing the show to incubate. Allowing the show to find its voice is critical. I don’t know if that’s running contrary to the state of radio these days, where you have to deliver the goods immediately. But giving a show time to find its voice I think is the most critical thing and then just hoping for the best, with the symmetry and that chemistry and all of that stuff. I don’t know if I see a hard and fast rule, or if there’s a successful formula that one could go to that’s going to generate these types of shows of the future. I think there’s a lot of luck involved. Preston: Yeah, a huge part of it is just finding the right combination of people and getting them together Do you mean where are the next shows that enter into radio are going to be, from outside our industry? Or do you mean where, from within our industry, are the next big shows going to surface? Knight: Both. Preston: I look at the way things www.radioink.com
were when I got started when I was a kid. I was trying to fight to get on at the local YMCA, which had a low-wattage station and if you paid a certain amount of money, you could get one show a week to go on there and play around and pretend you were a DJ. There’s the podcast format, even if you have no listeners. If you have nobody downloading and listening at all, at least there are avenues for you to pretend and work on and get a show together with fairly affordable equipment. People with their laptops at home can record shows and at least get into that rhythm. That and YouTube and these other digital formats will maybe give some people the opportunity to at least try it out, and there will be people who will surface from it eventually and become successful in our industry. Now granted, with that, there’s a lot more people who may not have the talent to eventually mature into a professional, so that means a lot more to weed through before the cream rises to the top. But I think that we might see more people coming from that world. Dave: I think it’s hard to manufacture chemistry. It’s something, you know, you either have it or you don’t — when it comes to morning shows in particular. But the one thing I think is key here at RIFF/Detroit is that it’s live 24/7. I don’t know many other stations in the country that have announcers on the air around the
clock, so you’re grooming the talent in your own building to eventually step up to the plate. Now whether that’s for a morning show or a higher-profile airshift, there’s very few places in radio right now that have that in their own building. So that’s one of the very cool things that I enjoy about working here. We’ve got this great team of people here around the clock who can then step up and help out whenever something pops up. Preston: Yeah, we’re fortunate that MMR is in the exact same boat as you guys, but we love success stories. You guys know how infrequently a new position will open up, and when it does happen, you know we’re the champions for our interns who have been here and have worked really hard for us. When we find someone that gets that weekend port-out position, yes, awesome, they’re starting to work their way up, and then oh, man, they just slid into weekend, you know overnights kick ass, and then the next thing you know they’re a producer, or they move on to another station and get a full-time gig. And we’re so happy about that. Homegrown, growing from within, you know the people that come in and watch you every day and see what you do and really take it in. I mean, obviously, I did the same thing. That’s how I started out. The people that are able to evolve into a career out of this, we love that. January 6, 2014 | RADIO INK | 19
Lake Says IT’S TIME TO GO FISHING O
n December 6, 2013, Greater Media announced that award-winning programmer Charley Lake would be retiring at the end of January. Since 2007, Lake has been the program director at Classic Rocker WMGK-FM in Philadelphia. He’s been in the radio business for more than 50 years. Lake says now is the time, while he’s still young enough to enjoy retirement. “I’m extraordinarily grateful to Greater Media, John Fullam, Peter Smyth, and Buzz Knight for letting me hang my hat here for the past seven years,” he says. “It’s an honor to wrap up my career, which has involved both the radio and music industries, in Philadelphia, a city as famous for its legendary radio stations and air talent as it is for its legacy of wonderful music and musicians. I look forward to my retirement, but for now I’m just looking forward to spending a few more weeks in the company of the nicest and most talented group of radio professionals I’ve ever had the privilege of working with.” You may hear Lake pop up on the air in the Washington area, which is where he’s headed, just to keep a hand in the business. Before working for Greater Media, Lake programmed KOOL in Phoenix and WJMK-FM in Chicago, and he spent seven years working in the Classic Rock format at WRNO-FM in New Orleans and WLVQ-FM in Columbus, OH. But it all began in the early ’70s, when the great Kerby Confer saw the talent Lake possessed and brought him on board at WYRE in Annapolis, MD.
“Charley Lake has built an amazing radio legacy and leaves our business with an indelible mark of success. We will miss him greatly, and I congratulate him on all of his accomplishments.”
— Greater Media VP/Program Development Buzz Knight
Confer says his memory of Lake is vivid. “He was a whirling dervish of enthusiasm. He was a guy who was going places, and in a hurry to get there. No matter WYRE/ Annapolis was a 250-watt daytimer wedged in among 50 Baltimore and DC stations loaded with talent and resources. Charley believed we could compete, and beat them. And so we did. We were always number one in the one-county Annapolis ratings during his time there. Did I mention we had a local 5kw full-timer across the street? I knew Charley was headed for much bigger things, and he certainly didn’t disappoint! But what happened to all that beautiful hair?” Radio Ink spoke to Lake about his long and successful radio career, why he’s retiring, and how the PD job has evolved over the years. When he first started out, PDs spent the majority of their time listening, spinning records, and changing the needle on the turntable. LPs were delivered in the mail and sampled in the PD’s office. Today programmers are interacting with record companies, salespeople, and clients, and most are responsible for multiple stations in a world increasingly dominated by downloads, smartphones, and instant feedback from social media. Lake talks about his biggest accomplishments over the years, whether radio plays too many commercials, and whether live and local really matters. And did you know Charley Lake used to be a dancer and appeared in Vitalis commercials? Reach out to Charley at chazdulac@aol.com, or follow him on Facebook.
LISTEN TO THAT INTERVIEW HERE 20 | RADIO INK | January 6, 2014
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www.radioink.com
12/24/13 9:27 AM
PROGRAMMINGPROFILE
“Charley Lake has been and will always be an important and beloved member of the Greater Media family. Under his leadership, WMGK-FM has become one of the premier Classic Rock stations in America. I wish him all the best as he begins the next chapter of his life.” — Greater Media Chairman/ CEO Peter Smyth
Top to bottom: Charley Lake with WMGK staff and the band Heart at Let Freedom Rock 2013; Charley Lake, news reporter Madelaine Waltjen, and air personality Dino DelGallo; Lake with WMGK’s Dan Fein; with WMGK’s Debbi Calton; John Fullam, WMGK morning host John DeBella, and Charley Lake; Lake with Wolfman Jack
www.radioink.com
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“Charley has done an extraordinary job for Greater Media and helped WMGK achieve some of its highest ratings. Charley is one of the top program directors in our business, and one of the nicest people. We will miss him dearly and wish him all the best.”
— Greater Media Philadelphia SVP/ Regional Market Manager John Fullam
January 6, 2014 | RADIO INK | 21
12/24/13 9:27 AM
PLAYING RADIO BY EAR degeneration and brought Pete Gustin, then age 11, into the studio. Gustin was diagnosed at 8 with a rare form of MD, and Maynard wanted him to present a young voice and face for the disease. When Gustin saw and heard Maynard working his magic in the studio, he was hooked. Macular degeneration is ordinarily a disease of later life, but the form of MD Gustin has, known as Stargardt’s disease, slowly robs those who have it of their vision from birth. You have a better chance of winning the lottery 20 times over than contracting this particular mutation of MD — only six people in the United States have the disease. And Gustin had to figure out a way to deal with losing his eyesight if he hoped to live out his dream. eter Gustin has a powerful set of pipes. It’s a voice most jocks would kill to have. And Gustin knew he had a gift, and decided to use it as a way to make a living. Radio was the obvious choice, the perfect profession. So at 18, he went to WEEI and WRKO in Boston for an internship. And he’s been there for nearly 18 years; he’s the creative services director for the stations, with a growing voiceover business on the side. But even as he demonstrated that he had the voice to make a living, Gustin was suffering from a disease that could have threatened his financial future. Gustin was turned on to radio by late WBZ morning man Dave Maynard. Maynard was hosting a fundraiser about macular
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Pete Gustin in the studio; among many other projects, he’s the voiceover artist for the Miami Dolphins Finsiders radio show.
When he was trying to break in to the business, Pete was told he’d never make it. But rather than get discouraged, he used that adversity as motivation to keep pushing forward. He came up with his own invention to help him read commercials and make use of that powerful voice: Once he receives the copy, he blows it up to a size 55 font. Then he loads the copy into a Word document so his computer reader can read it back to him through headphones worn on one ear. As he listens, he lays down voice tracks at virtually the same instant he’s hearing the words. It took a lot of practice and many do-overs before Gustin learned to develop the right inflections, but today, it’s impossible to tell he’s voicing commercials any differently from any other voiceover artist. Watch the video on the next page to see Pete Gustin in action. Former WEEI PD Jason Wolfe was impressed early on with Gustin’s drive to succeed. He says, “When I first met Pete, 15 years ago, I was amazed at his work ethic and desire to succeed in this business given his handicap, and I was thrilled to be able to add him to my team from the start at WEEI. He is as talented a production director as I’ve ever been around and has already made a huge mark on the industry.” Mark Pennington, PD of Greater Media’s WRIF/Detroit, says, “Peter is a tremendous asset for the station. His range, flexibility, quick turnaround, and professionalism have made him the ideal choice to be the voice of the RIFF in Detroit.”
www.radioink.com
12/24/13 12:11 PM
TALENTPROFILE
Today, Gustin’s voice is heard on hundreds of radio stations across the country. He’s been the voice of The Dan Patrick Show, voiced a commercial seen during a Super Bowl broadcast, was heard in the trailer of the movie Rio 2, and is the voice of the NFL on Sports USA as well as the voice of the Miami Dolphins and Philadelphia Eagles. Yet he can barely see the words on the page from which he’s asked to read. He’s overcome a huge obstacle to become a tremendous success story. Listen to our interview with Pete Gustin HERE as he takes us through his challenges, how he succeeded, and what it means to refuse to give up on your dream.
Pete Gustin with Julie Harding of PrincessVisits.com
Reach out to Pete about his incredible story at petegustin@petesbits.com. His website is www.PeteGustin.com Follow Pete on Facebook and Twitter.
See Pete Gustin in Action
www.radioink.com
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Pete Gustin at WEEI/ Boston. He serves as creative services director for the Sports powerhouse and clustermate WRKO.
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STATIONPROFILE WRCN/LONG ISLAND
Can An All-News Station Make It On Long Island?
J
VC Broadcasting President/CEO John Caracciolo did something at the end of 2013 you don’t often see. He did something many might be afraid to do: He blew up a music format that had a 40-year history and replaced it with a much more expensive News & Information format, because he believes there’s a need in the community. With the booming and consistently successful voices of WINS-AM and WCBS-AM
in the background, can an allNews station on Long Island work? Caracciolo believes it can. In fact, he’s banking on it. For many Long Islanders, WRCN was a part of their lives from the day they discovered radio, playing the great classic rock music they grew up with, and with some very recognizable radio names — Bob Buchmann, Tom Calderone, Dee Snider, Marc Coppola, Bob Goodman — passing
John Caracciolo (left) with LI News Radio 103.9 FM Station Manager Matt Goldapper and travelers at Long Island MacArthur Airport.
through the WRCN studios. “As our lives change, so does our soundtrack,” Caracciolo says. “What we listened to growing up is not necessarily what we listen to now, and what was important to us as teenagers maybe doesn’t seem so important anymore.” And so it was done: On December 26, 2013 JVC flipped WRCN to LI News Radio 103.9 FM. An admitted big fan of CBS Radio’s approach to delivering news, Caracciolo decided that signals from New York City were not delivering the news goods to Long Island residents. “Long Islanders are starving for local news and information,” he says. “Why should we have to wait 22 minutes to hear about the world when all we really want is Islip to Southampton? What’s the traffic like on the 347 merge or Sunrise Highway in Oakdale?” And with only one local newspaper and a single cable channel dedicated to the 3.5 million residents of Long Island, Caracciolo says the communities need more: “We deserve a 24-hour, seven-day-a-week free source for local news and information.” Caracciolo worked out a deal with the town of Islip to build a new studio at MacArthur Airport, and JVC spent $175,000 on soundproofing alone
Here’s a taste of what Long Islanders will hear when they tune in to LI News Radio. • • • • • • •
Live and local news all the time Traffic and weather every hour on the 5’s, focusing on LI Call-in shows with topics they care about High school sports and updates Town hall meetings Long Island business updates An unbiased and accurate reporter base, providing the real story without the slant or spin • Political updates that don’t lean left or right, but give both sides of the story 24 | RADIO INK | January 6, 2014
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www.radioink.com
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STATIONPROFILE
WRCN/LONG ISLAND
to block out the airplane noise. The studio’s large windows face baggage claim and are intended to catch the eye of travelers, integrating the station’s presence into the airport environment. Now, as Long Islanders come and go, they’ll be able to see exactly how the 24-hour JVC news operation works. It’s show business, something Caracciolo believes radio should be. Caracciolo says he’s excited about this new station because, “I live here too, and I know how much this outlet is needed.”
Listen to our interview with JVC CEO John Caracciolo HERE. YOU DECIDED TO MAKE A MAJOR CHANGE ON LONG ISLAND WITH WRCN. TALK ABOUT HOW YOU CAME TO THAT DECISION.
It’s funny. Our stations do really well because we are the exclusive format in the market. We have the only Spanish station, and we do really well with that. We have the only Country station, and we do really great with that. We have the only EDM station, and we’re knocking it out of the park. But with WRCN, the Classic Rock station, we were the fifth signal in the market. We don’t have the biggest signals, but we like to say we have the best and that we have the best content. We knew we had to make a change with WRCN. It was really at the point where it wasn’t performing financially the way we thought it should, and we had a lot of competition. We looked at the market to see where the hole was, and it was so obvious. It was staring us right in the face. You have a community of 3.4 million people, and you have no News & Information station. CBS-AM and the stations out of New York do fantastic on the Island. People are starving for information. But you have to wait 22 minutes to listen to the whole world. You know, we need about 10 minutes to listen to all of Long Island, and that’s what we figured we would do. www.radioink.com
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Inside the brand-new LI News Radio studios at Long Island MacArthur Airport
BACK IN THE DAY, WRCN WAS THE KING OF CLASSIC ROCK. WHAT’S GOING ON WITH THAT FORMAT?
I think you see it with Classic Rock throughout the country, or Rock throughout the country. It’s now splintered into so many formats — Alternative, Classic Hits, Rock — there are so many different types of it, and it is such a wide demo that when we did try to infuse some newer music, some of the older demo got pissed. When we tried to infuse some of the older music, the younger demo got pissed. It was really just a hard format to manage. The demo is getting a lot older. Look, WRCN was a station that I grew up with. I love the station. But I’m not the demo that is desirable anymore. WHAT KIND OF REACTION DID YOU GET FROM LOYAL LISTENERS OF WRCN WHEN YOU FINALLY MADE THE ANNOUNCEMENT?
We don’t take our listeners for granted. We try to be very honest and open with them. We let them know what we were thinking about doing. When we decided to make the change, I sent out a personal letter
“I FEEL VERY EXCITED ABOUT THE FORMAT. IT IS RADIO THE WAY IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE DONE: IN A SHOWCASE, AS ENTERTAINMENT AND BRINGING A SERVICE TO A COMMUNITY.” to our listener database to let them know why I was making the change. We did get a couple of phone calls from people who were pissed, but the majority understood. This is a format that most of the listeners to WRCN are going to listen to. It’s information, it’s news. As our lifestyles change, so do our needs and desires, and so does what we listen to. We talked to every advertiser that we had on RCN, and we had some guys forever. We said, “Look, this is what we’re thinking about doing.” I have to tell you, we didn’t lose an advertiser. Some of the listeners were pissed, but most of them are going to listen. January 6, 2014 | RADIO INK | 25
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STATIONPROFILE WRCN/LONG ISLAND
get our news from New York City. And we have to wait for the fourth or fifth story down, and it’s usually a catastrophic story, before they cover Long Island. I think this is going to work rather quickly. WHAT ARE THE LISTENERS GOING TO GET WHEN THEY TUNE IN TO THE NEW STATION?
Matt Goldapper with with field reporter Sheena Rubino.
Caracciolo and Goldapper show off the amenities at LI News Radio’s brand-new studios.
YOU WENT FROM A FORMAT THAT FINANCIALLY WASN’T WORKING ANYMORE TO A FORMAT THAT IS WICKEDLY EXPENSIVE TO RUN. HOW ARE YOU GOING TO MAKE THAT WORK?
The one thing that I don’t skimp on is staff. I don’t do it on our other stations either. It’s like having a restaurant and skimping on the food. I’m not going to skimp on staff. We have one chance to make it right. I’m going to make the investment. I’m very lucky that I have a staff that is very versatile, and I have a staff of radio broadcasters. If we were doing polka music or doing News/Talk or 26 | RADIO INK | January 6, 2014
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doing Rock, these guys would make it work. We have some great journalism schools on the Island. We have the Stoneybrook School of Journalism, I have Hofstra University School of Journalism, and we have some people that are starting out in the industry that wanted to make the commitment and get into radio. We are very lucky to get them. Staffing is not going to be an issue, and investment in the product is not going to be an issue. HOW LONG DOES IT TAKE FOR A NEWS STATION TO WORK?
I think in another market it might be a little bit longer. I think here it’s going to be pretty quick. I could tell you that we already have the station pre-sold. Our guys are out on the street before it’s even been on the air, and they are selling it. And they are selling it successfully. That’s because there is such a desire and there is such a need here. I go back to 3.4 million people, one daily newspaper, and no broadcast TV news station dedicated to Long Island. We have a cable news outlet that half the population gets, and we
My favorite station is WCBS-AM. It’s a great radio station. I’m going to be honest, I mimic that a lot. We are going to have headline news in the morning with a male and female anchor, a lot of actualities, and a lot of street reporters. In the afternoon, we have a former Suffolk County executive, Steve Levy, who’s very popular. He’s very opinionated, very outspoken. He’s going to do a show that gives Long Island the ability to go on the air and vent and take their feelings and their opinions to the airwaves. After Steve, we have another local show with a gentleman named John Gomez. John ran for Congress in New York’s 2nd Congressional District. Again, a very opinionated guy. A guy who cares about the community. We are going to let our listeners speak out and vent and have an outlet that is theirs — an editorial outlet that can be their own. The station is going to be very listener-interactive, and it is going to be very local. WHAT KIND OF NEWS IS HAPPENING ON LONG ISLAND? ARE YOU COVERING TOWN BOARDS? ARE YOU COVERING CITY COUNCILS? ARE YOU COVERING THE WHOLE ISLAND? IT’S A BIG MARKET.
It is quite a big market, and it’s also very “over-governmented.” Every town has a council. We have the Sufflolk County legislature. We have a New York State Assembly. We have villages. We have 128 school districts. We have 144 fire districts. So we are going to be covering a lot of that stuff — a lot of town board meetings, a lot of work sessions. We have a ton of issues affect the island. Our power company is likely now being taken over by a different power company. www.radioink.com
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STATIONPROFILE
WRCN/LONG ISLAND
“WE ARE GOING TO LET OUR LISTENERS SPEAK OUT AND VENT AND HAVE AN OUTLET THAT IS THEIRS — AN EDITORIAL OUTLET THAT CAN BE THEIR OWN. THE STATION IS GOING TO BE VERY LISTENER-INTERACTIVE, AND IT IS GOING TO BE VERY LOCAL.” We have consolidation of school districts. It is a very opinionated, a very well-educated island that is starving for that outlet to scream and talk a little bit and get their opinion out. I think news and information and what we’re covering is not going to be an issue on the Island. WHAT ABOUT TRAFFIC? THE L.I.E. COULD BE ONE OF THE WORST PLACES TO DRIVE IN AMERICA.
It’s so funny. I listen to CBS, as I said, and I have to wait to catch that. They do traffic on the 8’s, but I have to wait to catch that right traffic report that is just for Long Island. We are doing to do our traffic and weather on the 5’s, and it is all Long Island roadways. We are going to the county roadways, the secondary roadways, and of course, the famous Long Island Expressway. Traffic is going to be a big part of our programming.We use Total Traffic; we have a great relationship with them. Their Long Island Bureau headquarters are in our building. WHAT ABOUT SOCIAL MEDIA? IT PLAYS A BIG PART IN NEWS. WTOP IS THE KING WHEN IT COMES TO SOCIAL MEDIA.
A huge part of our game plan. We hired a social media director, and that person is going to hire a staff of three plus an intern pool. Social media is going to be a big part of not only our newsgathering and how we get information, but also a part of listener expression on the air. www.radioink.com
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TELL US ABOUT THE STUDIOS. HOW DID YOU DECIDE THE AIRPORT WAS THE BEST SPOT FOR THE STATION?
I read an article with Bob Pittman in your publication. Mr. Pittman said, “Radio is in the entertainment business.” We don’t do that. But perception is reality. We are the entertainment business. Some of our studios are buried away inside an office building. I wanted a studio that had that window so when people came down, they were wowed as they saw radio being done. Pittman said it best. We are still in the entertainment business. We don’t take advantage of that enough. When we were approached by Long Island McArthur Airport for a plan to help them market the airport, one of the things we came up with was a concert series in the airport, very similar to what JetBlue is doing at JFK. We did our first country music concert, a lunchtime concert in the atrium. We had over 850 people. The airport was blown away. We were blown away. It was a great experience. I was talking to the airport commissioner, and he said, “We’ve got to do more of this. We need more activity here.” I said, “What would you think about a radio station broadcasting from the center concourse of the airport?” He said, “I love it.” Within two weeks, we had a contract. We sat down with the commissioners of the airport, and we structured a deal. We put a rental agreement together that was fair for all of us. It was good for the town, they were making some
money, and we built these spectacular studios right in the atrium of Long Island MacArthur Airport, where 2.8 million people a year come through. We really made it a showcase; we built it from ground up. It was the old lost-baggage claim room for United Airlines. We retrofitted that. We did a great buildout; we had a local architect plan it out. We have a lot of lights. I found some old textile prisms and meter panels that light up, a red bat phone. We overspent to make it really look cool. It looks like the set of The Tonight Show. That’s what we wanted to do. TELL US HOW YOU THINK IT’S GOING TO WORK WHEN YOU FINALLY FLIP THE SWITCH.
If I have any indication from the word on the street, I think it is going to work great. It’s needed. As a resident of Long Island myself, I need it. I want it. I get in the car in the morning, and I’m switching between WFAN and WCBS and WINS and I’m starving for information. I think I’m very similar to a lot of residents of the Island that want it and need it. I love the fact that it’s going to be an uncensored outlet for the residents to vent. I think it’s going to be fun and exciting. I think it is going to do well. I feel very excited about the format. It is radio the way it is supposed to be done: in a showcase, as entertainment and bringing a service to a community.
A LOOK AT LI NEWS RADIO'S STUDIOS
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COVERSTORY STEVE DAHL
DAHL ON PODCASTING: “I can say whatever I want and do whatever I want. I mean the only rule is to not libel people. It’s fun! It gives me a chance to further push boundaries and experiment.” 28 | RADIO INK | January 6, 2014
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www.radioink.com
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COVERSTORY
STEVE DAHL
Steve Dahl
STILL A BROADCAST PIONEER A
lthough he was told early on he would never make it on the radio because his voice was too high, Steve Dahl is considered a pioneer of the Talk format. And he did it mostly by bucking the system. In the city of Chicago, he’s legendary. Everyone’s read the stories claiming Howard Stern would listen to tapes of Dahl and model his own show after them. From his irreverent behavior on the air to his army-outfit appearance on Tomorrow With Tom Snyder to his public breakup with on-air partner Garry Meier, Dahl was a huge radio star in the ’70s and ’80s. And his listeners were loyal. In 1982, Dahl said on the air that motorists could substitute Necco wafers for coins in Chicago toll booths. Illinois Tollway claimed a dozen toll machines broke down due to people trying to pay with candy. And, of course, there was the Disco Demolition promotion at Comiskey Park — that video has been watched on YouTube by just about everyone in the industry (watch it again below). Dahl was told not to talk about it on the air, with a threat of being fired if he did. He talked about it — and he wasn’t fired. “That was where I decided that being true to myself and being true to the audience and speaking my mind was more important than keeping my job,” he says. “For me, that was a big day. I risked everything that day.”
WATCH THIS 1980 NEWS CLIP ABOUT STEVE DAHL’S FIRING BY WLUP.
The great radio programmer Lee Abrams says Steve Dahl electrified Rock radio in the ’70s. “When we set up WLUP (The Loop) in 1978, the first thing we did was bring in Steve Dahl,” Abrams says. “His blue-collar, non-elite, zero-BS approach was made for Chicago. There were suggestions that he needed to play songs and follow the format. He fought that one, hard! No! It was the equivalent of telling Paul Harvey he needed to play songs and ‘tighten up his raps.’ Steve is a pioneer, and with change comes pain from non-believers. But he fought the battle and prevailed. He was joined at the hip to the streets, not the format, and it was amazing to see the incredible and emotional reaction from people. He took listeners and made them fans. He was a brand, from his anti-disco position to live events to his own brand of cola. The guy owned Chicago. On his terms.” Dahl’s final day on the radio was December 5, 2008, and he says he’s not coming back. Ever. When Dahl left, it was due to poor ratings — something he attributes to the Portable People Meter not meshing with his type of show. Dahl is a podcaster now, saying and doing pretty much whatever he wants: “It’s fun!” In fact, Dahl is one of the few podcasters who has a successful subscription model, although he doesn’t like to share the number of paid subscribers. Dahl is also creating technology for other out-of-work radio stars to take their talent — and their listeners — to the Web. After five years of tinkering and several hundred thousand dollars invested, Dahl is ready to help other broadcasters make a living at podcasting.
Listen to our entire interview with Steve Dahl HERE.
www.radioink.com
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COVERSTORY STEVE DAHL
Steve Dahl and Chicago native John Belushi.
How are your podcast and the Steve Dahl Network going? Well, things are going well. It’s a pretty steep learning curve, certainly a lot different than what I used to do. I’m making money and we keep getting new subscribers. The biggest challenge that I’ve had is trying to make it as simple as possible. Listening to our podcast is a little bit more complicated because it’s a subscription. I’m trying to get it to where it’s almost as easy as listening to the radio. We have a new version of our website and app coming out, hopefully by the end of 2013. By the time this is heard or seen, it should be out. You want to make it simple because people expect one click, right? They do, and I think as radio, in my opinion, becomes more and more of a wasteland, people are looking for alternatives, so I want to make it as simple as possible for them. Also, there are a lot of people, especially in the demographic that has kind of grown up with me, that have sort of given up listening to the radio as they’re talking on their phones in the car or wherever. I’ve been presenting this to them as a simple way to have a show and to listen to it at your convenience when and where you want to, in the car, working out, whatever. At some point in your career you decided, for whatever reason, you were done with radio — or maybe radio was done with you. Maybe it was a combination of the two. Why did you decide podcasting was the way you wanted to go? Well, the PPM really has changed the way radio is programmed, obviously. When it first came out, it was not calibrated to work well with a show like mine. In one month I went from being in the top five with the diary system to being 29th, I think, in the mornings in Chicago. For a lot of reasons, it didn’t seem like it was going to get any better. CBS bought me out, and over the course of the 2 1/2 years I was off, I discovered podcasting. I had put up podcasts of the show, but I discovered that creating a podcast really reminds me of radio back in ’70s, when we started to change things and talk on FM and be irreverent and push the boundaries. I’ve filled in on some radio shows, and every single one stops every 10 minutes for weather 30 | RADIO INK | January 6, 2014
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DAHL ON RADIO:
“All of the personalities that are being created are being created on podcasts. I don’t think radio is going to do anything other than at some point auction off their frequencies.” and traffic. No matter what’s happening, they are all trying to program to the PPM. Quite frankly, it’s not fun, and it’s not what I do. I think this is a perfect medium, going forward, for me. I have a pretty loyal fan base out there. Some of them have fallen away, and we’re working hard to re-attract them. Once they hear it, they really like the product. I don’t know if radio abandoned me or I abandoned it. Even if I wanted to go back, they are not paying talent anymore. I don’t think there are any good radio jobs to be had. When you saw that drop from fifth to 29th with the PPM, and you look back now, how was that possible? What is your conclusion on how that could happen? Well, I don’t know. It’s funny because I was working at CBS at the time, and they were pretty instrumental in getting the PPM to market. They kept telling me that it was going to benefit people like me, the talk shows are the shows it would benefit — and it turned out to be the music shows, or music programming, the tighter the playlists, the better. I tried to work with it. I think they increased the sample size, they probably
had done some tweaks to it and whatnot. It just didn’t seem like it was well suited for what I do. So you flip on the microphone for the podcast, and it sounds like you get as much of a charge out of doing that as you did back in the day, when radio was much different. I can say whatever I want and do whatever I want. I mean the only rule is to not libel people. It’s fun! It gives me a chance to further push boundaries and experiment. I think it’s a lot more intimate in terms of knowing how many people are listening, when they’re listening, how they’re listening. I can speak to them electronically via e-mail or whatever. It’s a very hands-on thing for me, obviously, and for the listener too. With the subscription service, listeners really feel invested in the process, and they have a voice in it. I think it’s ultimately better for both of us. There are few personalities in the industry who could pull this off. How hard was it, when you made the switch from — and I don’t want to make it sound easy, but when you walk into a www.radioink.com
12/24/13 12:46 PM
COVERSTORY
STEVE DAHL
Steve Dahl with Janet Joliat Dahl, his wife of 35 years.
Dahl with grandson Jackson, born in October
radio station, you do your show prep, then you turn on the microphone. Here you are, building a whole new organization. How difficult was that whole transition? Well, it’s been difficult, yes, but more than anything it’s been interesting. I have done this all with my own money. I’m sure you know, as you do a lot of Web-based stuff, it’s not cheap. With each generation of the app or website, I learn new things to put into the next one. I am constantly trying to move forward, grow, and learn. It’s certainly different from the days when I used to drive downtown. I appreciate your giving me credit for show prep, but I pretty much just walked in and did the show. There were 18 minutes of commercials ready to go, and somebody wrote me a big check. Certainly this is a lot more laborintensive, but it’s a lot more satisfying when you get somebody to subscribe and then to appreciate and understand what it is.
You started free, then went to a paid podcast model. How did you build that base in the beginning? Brendan Greeley and Steve Dahl. Greeley Social media — I haven’t really done teams with Steve’s son Matt Dahl on the anything other than social media and word Steve Dahl Network’s Matt & Brendan. of mouth. That’s really been pretty successful for us. I do have a loyal audience. I’ve been in this market for 30 years. There are a lot of active P1-type listeners that understood what was happening, early adopters, DAHL MAKES AN APPEARANCE ON who immediately came on board. More and more people learn about it with the THE TOMORROW SHOW WITH TOM 30-day free trial, and we get a lot of people to convert that way. SNYDER, ALONGSIDE A YOUNG As I said, my goal is to make it as simple as possible for people. At some MEAT LOAF. point, I am trying to develop a turnkey system that I can offer to people such as myself, on-air people. In every market, huge talents have been taken off the air all around the country. I really see this as a good future for people. I would like to be able to give people a solution where they can keep their act intact and offer a very simple, very easy way for people to listen. I really think I can go to Drew and Mike in Detroit and say, “Guys, you’ve got hundreds of thousands of fans. If you can get 10,000 of them to sign up for this, you can make a good living, you can do what you love to do, you can do it without anybody telling you what to do. Make yourselves happy, and the fans happy as well.” When you launched the free service and you started to see actual listening numbers, what was that like? I don’t like to give out the numbers, especially with us charging. I really don’t want people knowing how much I make. But I will say, I took the number of people downloading the show and I had that mathematically converted to what those people were doing, accumulated over a week — if the show was 1.5 hours long and they listened to the whole 1.5 hours, you would put them down for six quarter-hours. If you were to take that number and put that into the radio formula for calculating ratings, we were back in the top five of any show in the market — if those were actual listeners that actually listened for 90 minutes a day, I would be number one. www.radioink.com
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COVERSTORY STEVE DAHL
Did you get a lot of negative reaction when you started to charge people? We got some. In hindsight, I probably could have figured out a better way to announce it. I was trying to be clever and I said, “I’m taking my talent to the Internet,” like the LeBron James announcement. I don’t think that was my best marketing strategy ever. But we have converted a very high percentage of those people. Some people were waiting me out and thought that I would go back to radio. It’s been five years now that I have been off the radio, and I think in those five years, smartphones and the technology have advanced to the point where people are pretty sure that I’m not coming back on the radio, which I’m not. I’m pretty much reaching a new tipping point here, where I have it so easy to access that I’m going to start trying to market it a little harder. I got to the point last year where I was tired of making a bad first impression all the time — the app was a little cumbersome. Now that we have things streamlined and super easy to use, I’m going to start marketing some other way besides just social media. Do you take advertisers? We have five advertisers that don’t run spots, but we work them into the show like product placement. It’s nothing more than a billboard. I keep it at five or six, and we always have them running some kind of special or deal for subscribers. Ultimately, we try to make it benefit everybody. Do the advertisers tell you they are getting results? Very happy with the results. Are you satisfied with just doing this in Chicago? My primary goal is to maximize this market in terms of people. There are so many people who over the years listened to me that I’m trying to draw back in. There
are areas of the country where expatriates of Chicago have moved, and so possibly in the future I’ll reach out to them. It’s the Internet. You just have to keep plugging away and hope people share things. The viral nature of it helps push things along. There doesn’t seem to be any lightning in a bottle in terms of that. Was it a huge initial expense for equipment to get it all set up? It’s been expensive for me, a couple hundred thousand dollars on this to get it right. What I would like to offer people is not going to cost them that much. I haven’t decided on how to structure it, but it could be that they pay for the service, or we could take a percentage. There are a lot of different ways to go. I understand most people aren’t in a position, nor have the stomach, to spend that kind of money experimenting with this. I’ve spent five years working on this, and I think I know as much about it as most people. I know how to monetize it. My suggestion would be to e-mail me at steve@dahl.com. I understand the situation that these men and women are in. I understand how hard they’ve worked to build up their audience and what it feels like to have that slipping away. I think I have a solution that would be reasonable for them, and perfect in terms of keeping and maybe even expanding their audience. What are your thoughts on the radio industry today? I think people keep saying it’s going to get better. I don’t think it will, because the tables have been turned with the PPM. It’s kind of like it was when I first got into it, back in the early ’70s. It used to be a clock and you used to sweep through a quarter-hour. But now, with the PPM and their ability to sync that up to audio and watch people tune in and tune out based on topics, it’s really taken all the creativity out of it. I don’t see that coming back,
Sidelines WHAT ARE YOUR HOBBIES (OUTSIDE OF RADIO/PODCASTING)? Sucking at golf, sex, and ocelot racing.
WHO IS/WAS YOUR ROLE MODEL AND WHY? William F. Williams of KPPC/ Pasadena. He gave me my first big-time airshift, when the staff went out to Chino prison to play basketball with Humble Harve and some other inmates.
WHAT ARE YOU READING RIGHT NOW? Monsters: The 1985 Chicago Bears and the Wild Heart of Football, by Rich Cohen.
FAVORITE TV SHOW? Peep Show, a British comedy show.
WHO IS THE MOST INTERESTING PERSON YOU KNOW (OUTSIDE YOUR FAMILY)? Chicago restaurateur Rich Melman. IF YOU HAD 30 MINUTES, A TAPE RECORDER, AND YOUR CHOICE, WHO WOULD YOU INTERVIEW, AND WHY? Jay Cutler? No one has done that yet, right?
NAME THREE STATIONS YOU LISTENED TO AS A KID. KHJ, KRLA, KPPC. YOUR MOST EMBARRASSING CAREER MOMENT? Doing my show still high/hung-over on the floor at a Radio & Records Convention in L.A. in 1980.
WHAT ONE GOAL HAS ELUDED YOU? I’m still chasing it.
MOST PROUD CAREER ACHIEVEMENT? Breaking through the notalk FM radio barrier.
DAHL ON DISCO DEMOLITION
“Well, I was surprised that many people showed up. I thought it was going to be a failure. I’m dressed up like an idiot in an Army helmet.” 32 | RADIO INK | January 6, 2014
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WHAT IRKS YOU THE MOST ABOUT RADIO? Their inability to properly understand and use the Internet.
WHEN YOU DIE WHAT, WILL PEOPLE SAY ABOUT YOU? He’s dead now for sure!
www.radioink.com
12/24/13 12:46 PM
COVERSTORY
STEVE DAHL
Dahl (r) with writer/actor/producer Bob Odenkirk.
career days, was a big turning point for me. That was where I decided that being true to myself and being true to the audience and speaking my mind was more important than keeping my job. For me, that was a big day. I risked everything that day.
Steve Dahl at the notorious Disco Demolition night at Comiskey Park in Chicago.
In 1979 you pulled off one of the greatest promotions in radio history, the Disco Demolition at Comiskey Park. When you look at that video, what goes through your mind? Well, I was surprised that many people showed up. I thought it was going to be a failure. I’m dressed up like an idiot in an Army helmet, and back then the White Sox were drawing 9,000 people, so if I doubled the crowd it would be 18,000 — which would still look pretty bad in a baseball stadium. I think about that, I think my Army jacket is a little too tight, and I guess I didn’t know I was that popular. That was the first time I had ever had tangible proof. I had seen it in the trades, with ratings, but never seen the people. It was life-changing. And that night, Tom Hoyt, the Tom Hoyt, who ran Heftel Broadcasting for Cecil Heftel, came up to me and told me to not talk about it the next day on the air. I was like, “What?” I went in the next day and basically was told, “If you talk about it you’re getting fired. It was crazy that you did this. It was bad.” So I went in and for the first 30 seconds I could hear myself saying, “Don’t talk about this.” I had just gotten married, and I had a lot to lose. But I did, and I didn’t get fired. That was a turning point for me. I had always pushed back on management and tried to do what was right and not what they said to do. It was the first time I said, “You know what, if I don’t come on and talk about this, I’m not being true to myself and the kind of broadcaster that I want to be.” I did talk about it, and that really, in terms of
STEVE DAHL AT DISCO DEMOLITION
because I don’t think that system is going to change. I read somewhere that they were talking about working some diaries back in, but with the People Meter, you have to do certain things. They are not personalityfriendly. The Sports stations seem to do OK in spite of that, but they are stopping to do sports updates every 10 minutes. They are just giving them more of what they want. Do you think it’s possible to create radio legends anymore? I don’t think there will be any legends created. Matt Dahl is my son, but if you listen to Matt and Brendan [Greeley], on my network, those guys were the future of radio and radio personalities. There is no place for them. All the personalities that are being created are being created on podcasts. I don’t think radio is going to do anything other than at some point auction off their frequencies. www.radioink.com
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What was it about the way you were doing your show that made it so popular at the time? We were just talking to kids on their level. It was not being done in most markets. I was 24. I had been fired by the ABC station when they flipped to disco. Actually, I quit. I was just making fun of that. I was blowing up a disco record with sound effects and needle scratches and all that. People liked that, and I just kept doing it. Disco and that whole dance theme permeated everything at the time. Rightly or wrongly, there was this bizarre paranoia among young kids that rock ’n’ roll was dying out. I think some of the people saw it from that standpoint. When you are that age, music means the most to you. I think a lot of people wanted some affirmation that what they liked was worthy and worthy of continuing. Did you ever talk to Bill Veeck or Mike Veeck about that — the White Sox owners? I had spoken to Mike Veeck. Bill did not speak to me after that. Mike and Jeff Schwartz, who was the sales manager at the Loop, had put the thing together. As I said, I reluctantly said I would do it and I thought it would look silly. I was wrong about that. I pretty much lucked into that. Mike and I are on speaking terms. At least he can look back and laugh at it now, although I’m sure back then he was taking a tongue-lashing from his dad. Yeah, I feel bad about that. I never encouraged anybody to go out on the field and do anything. It was out of my hands. January 6, 2014 | RADIO INK | 33
12/24/13 12:46 PM
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NORMPATTIZ INTERVIEW
NORM!
Norm Pattiz Is King Of The Podcast
B
usinessWeek has called Norm Pattiz’s PodcastOne business “take two” in his long and successful career. Known for creating the radio network business at Westwood One, Pattiz is on the cutting edge of technology. And he believes, as he did at Westwood, that the game is about to change. When you speak to Pattiz — who also heads up Courtside Entertainment — it certainly sounds as if he’s taking those early successes at Westwood One and applying the same ideas to his burgeoning podcasting business. This time around, the metrics are much better. He has already aligned
LISTEN TO OUR INTERVIEW WITH NORM PATIZ ON PODCASTING HERE himself with many recognizable names. And he has one thing he didn’t have in his early Westwood days: money to spend. Yes, Norm Pattiz is investing his own money in the podcasting business because he believes it’s the future of radio. The PodcastOne talent roster now garners about 100 million monthly downloads, up from 30 million when Pattiz got involved in the company with Kit Gray (see sidebar interview below). Now Pattiz says advertisers are ready to jump on board because he has the scale, he knows exactly how many people are downloading, and those listeners are all P1s. The big question is (as always): Will the revenue follow? When did you decide this was the business for you — the podcast business? I got introduced by a mutual friend to a young man named Kit Gray, who had been out repping some podcasts, some good ones. He was calling on www.radioink.com
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advertisers, mostly direct-response advertisers. He was a one-man band working out of his apartment in Marina del Rey, making a little bit of money for himself. We started talking. Courtside was in the radio business, but mostly because of people who were with me at Westwood One, who when I left Westwood One were interested in maintaining a relation-
ship. So I started Courtside, which was the little programming boutique, with people like Bill O’Reilly and Dr. Drew and a few other players. When Kit came in, I had been out talking about the changes in the network radio business, consolidation and how the two biggest radio groups were making it difficult for independent producers to continue January 6, 2014 | RADIO INK | 35
12/24/13 10:33 AM
NORMPATTIZ INTERVIEW
L-r Kris Jenner (a guest on Gifford’s podcast), Norm Pattiz, PodcastOne COO
Film director Judd Apatow with author and
Greg Batusic, and Kathie Lee Gifford of
screenwriter Bret Easton Ellis. Ellis’ ability
Bret Easton Ellis and
Kathie Lee and Company.
to draw big-name guests has made his
Kanye West
PodcastOne program a popular download.
“Compared to radio, we are practically commercial-free. Radio is running 18 minutes an hour. We never run more than four minutes or four spots an hour.” to be successful in radio. My first thought when I was introduced to Kit was that he reminded me of me when I started Westwood One. I had one program, one office, one person. I started focusing on podcasts. I always knew what podcasts were, and we always were in the podcast business at Westwood One, but mostly as value-added. And then I started realizing that there were an awful lot of things about podcasting that were the very same as radio syndication when I started Westwood One 30 years ago, which is the reason we ultimately named this division PodcastOne. Because the story of Westwood One to PodcastOne was a very simple story to tell. The similarities between the two businesses at various stages of development looked almost identical, with one huge exception: With a podcast, which is radio on demand or audio on demand, you didn’t need a radio station to carry a program in order to reach the consumer. The radio business for independent producers was becoming very, very difficult because of lack of access to affiliates from the two major groups, so it just seemed like the time had come. Actually, the time had come before that, but nobody had taken advantage of it, as the radio groups were too interested in maintaining the status quo of radio. They just were generally very highly leveraged, so the idea of investing in anything, particularly new, was not an option to them. I had 36 | RADIO INK | January 6, 2014
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been successful in the radio business and I had some money. Still do. How has the company grown since the launch? Kit was representing programs that generated about 30 million downloads per month. They were good shows, but we were just repping them, so we just got a small rep fee. You couldn’t grow the business the way we intended to grow the business with that kind of economic model. So we started producing our own shows to go along with our repped shows and we started making better deals with a lot of the programs that we repped. We told them what we were going to do: We were going to be an industry, which needs metrics, research, marketing, and publicity — all the things an industry would normally pay for. And since there was no industry, I was going to pay for it. To get to your question, we now have, or deliver, in excess of 100 million downloads monthly. When Kit started out, it was a business that was a little under $2 million. This year we’ll do about $8 million. Next year we’ll do about $15 million without really breaking a sweat. It looked almost exactly like what Westwood One looked like when it ramped up from a $2 million company to a $6 million-$7 million company to a less than $20 million company. Once we reached that level, it really arced up significantly.
Then people were starting to realize the metrics. The systems that are put in place are very easy for advertisers to use, from payment processing through the billing and payment process. Now we represent the only significant player in the game, representing a wide variety of podcasts owned, operated, and represented on a platform that has enough critical mass to get an advertiser to take a serious look at it. How is the sales structure set up? We sell it pretty much the same way as network radio and television; if you want to buy a program individually you can, providing it doesn’t wind up hurting us that we don’t have that inventory to put into packages. But in podcasting, the more demand you have, the larger your audience gets, the more episodes you add. Compared to radio, we are practically commercial-free. Radio is running 18 minutes an hour. We never run more than four minutes or four spots an hour. Our proposition is that we’ve got all the P1 listeners because these are people who are fans of the personality or subject matter, and these are people where the number one value proposition is to get the personality to read the spot live. We give them a fact sheet and let them go. After that, you get them to introduce a spot produced by the advertiser. After that, get them to simply say before they go into the www.radioink.com
12/24/13 10:33 AM
NORMPATTIZ INTERVIEW
“We don’t want to be exclusively thought of as a digital buy. We want to extend radio so that we are a part of overall radio that contributes to the growth of radio which is now flat to down.”
L-r: Ron Paul, Norm Pattiz, and Charles Goyette
break that we’re going to have a short break, and here are the people who make it possible for you to get this podcast wherever you want, whenever you want, and free of charge and practically commercial-free.
opportunity here. The minus is that there’s a lot more competition for dollars today with digital technology, which, obviously, we are part of. The big plus is, consumers can consume our product whenever they want.
Do the advertisers get podcasting? Do they understand it? No! Let me put it this way, direct-response advertisers understand it. They understand it extremely well because they have been the sole support for podcasts. They don’t care about the size of the audience. They care about the size of the response. They measure the response, and podcasting generally delivers a better cost-per-action than national radio or television. So that’s why they’ve jumped right into it. When you take a listen to a podcast, you hear a lot of the same advertisers. Our mission, and the way we determined how we were going to the next level, was to go out and let all of the major advertising agencies and advertising clients know what we’re doing. With 30 years of Westwood One behind me, there are not too many agencies or clients that I can’t get in to see. We’re going to put on our evangelist hats and pitch the medium, which is exactly what we did with syndicated radio. When we started syndicated radio, it was a very small business. We think that there’s a similar
Outside the direct-response group, where do you think the ad money will come from? It’s already coming. Our first goal was talking about the medium, which we started last June — not necessarily to start writing business. It was to make sure that we were considered part of the upfront proposals, and we are. There are an awful lot of agencies that are asking for proposals from us because for the first time there’s a company in on-demand spoken-word audio. There has not been a single presentation that I’ve been present at where anybody says that’s a bad idea. The advertisers have to be made comfortable that they are dealing with good metrics and a good company, and I think for the very first time they see that, so we are getting a very good response. You are able to show them exactly how many people listen or download. That’s got to be helpful information to an advertiser. Well, it is, but that’s not our primary goal. Our primary goal is to give them an audience they can buy
the same way they buy network television and network radio, and to give to additional media departments a digital solution to continue to justify their existence. Billions and billions of dollars are being spent in traditional media departments the way they have always been spent. Now agencies have these digital departments that can get into the granularity, which is good and which is bad. Sometimes when you are in the business of selling advertising, you don’t want to get overly granular — you’ve got nothing to sell. If people only want a particular ZIP code or particular age or gender or other particulars they can find out about, when you put it all together, you’ve got an audience that is so granular, you can’t possibly make it up with CPMs. So what we want to do, we do business with the digital departments and agencies because we’re using digital delivery, and we do have a lot of that information. We don’t want to be exclusively thought of as a digital buy. We want to extend radio so that we are a part of overall radio that contributes to the growth of radio, which is now flat to down. When you add an online, ondemand, digital component, there’s a lot of growth in that area. We not only produce a lot of our own shows, we’ve got a number of NPR shows, and CBS shows including 60 Minutes — WestwoodOne does their podcasts with us. When you take a look at some of the radio programs we have that we now podcast — Loveline has three times the audience in podcast than in radio. Loveline is a program that runs Sunday through Thursday from
“Far from being a competitor of radio, we think that we are the art of radio that best exemplifies the future.” www.radioink.com
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January 6, 2014 | RADIO INK | 37
12/24/13 10:33 AM
NORMPATTIZ INTERVIEW
Loveline’s Dr Drew
Pattiz with PodcastOne personality
Pinsky, Norm Pattiz, and
Brandi Glanville
Adam Carolla
“The average age of the 20 or so people that work for the company is about 28 or 29. It’s invigorating. It’s exciting, and it’s going to work.” 10 p.m. to midnight. There’s a whole lot of people that would love to access that show but don’t want to be glued to their radio at 10 p.m. They can listen to it all the time. Far from being a competitor of radio, we think that we are the art of radio that best exemplifies the future. Steve Dahl says because of the way radio has become, and because of the PPM, we are not going to see legendary stars come out of radio the way they used to. He thinks they’re being made in podcasting. Do you agree with that? Absolutely. I have said this many times in speeches. When was the last time a national star was created in radio, and who was it? You get different names, but the one thing that is for certain is that it was years ago. We get a demographic star every week in podcasting. That’s why, even though we’re running a curated list of about 200 podcasts, we’re getting our programs and suggestions for programs from a variety of places. Talent agencies, YouTube stars, we went to Stone Cold Steve Austin and discovered what WWE fans always knew: They are intensely loyal. Austin was doing one 38 | RADIO INK | January 6, 2014
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podcast a week. Now he does three. We just signed Chris Jericho, whose first podcast was an interview with Steve Austin. It was number one in all categories on iTunes when it came out. I mean that’s number one in over 300,000 podcasts there on iTunes. Can these people that are doing podcasts, other than Adam Carolla or Steve Austin, make money? There are certainly plenty of people that we have who make plenty of money with these podcasts, and a lot more money than traditional radio unless you are Rush Limbaugh. Some of these podcasts that have been on the air and made little to nothing, the people are very happy with the something that we have been able to give them. The people that we are signing right now have expectations of making real dough. You can tell by the caliber of the people that we are signing that they do a lot other things as well. This becomes a really nice, personal addition to their media and entertainment career that they have more control of than anything else they could possibly do. What we are looking for in talent are partnerships,
where the talent’s and our interests are exactly the same and where they are all putting as much into the program as we do. We will give them an opinion, but the decision is ultimately theirs. The amazing thing about that is you don’t even advertise. How are they doing so well? Social media? Exactly. We go out and find someone who has a strong social media following, who can promote to their fan base. We promote in the podcasts. We put some hosts as guests on other programs and those programs’ hosts as guests on new shows. So when you are dealing with 100 million downloads a month, it’s almost a self-perpetuating promotion machine. We don’t really need to go out and buy radio or TV time. What we need is to make sure the 35 percent of Americans who download podcasts, and who are familiar with the technology and are proven to be the P1 listeners in that area, know we’ve got something coming so they are there. It’s so much easier to access a podcast now than eight years ago, when podcasts first came out. If you go to our website and download our app, you www.radioink.com
12/24/13 10:33 AM
NORMPATTIZ INTERVIEW
WHEN KIT MET NORM PodcastOne is the result of a meeting between Norm Pattiz and Christopher “Kit” Gray, who is now the president of PodcastOne sales. RI: How did you get started in Podcasting? I have always been a fan of Talk radio. I grew up in Boston listening to Sports Talk, and over the years my listening habits grew into listening to great talents like Howard Stern, and then Adam Carolla when he was syndicated by CBS. When Adam left CBS, my commute to work every morning was just not the same. I was complaining to a few of my friends about missing my morning drive companion — and someone mentioned that Adam had a podcast that was free and on demand. Downloading the podcast became part of my daily routine. Being a fan of the show and having a career in advertising sales led me to a business model that would work for sponsors and for Adam Carolla. I went to Adam’s website and sent an e-mail, and one of his team members responded. A week later I met with Adam and his team about selling advertisements and introduced them to a few of my advertising contacts that I knew would have interest. We were able to leverage Adam’s loyal fan base and his skill set to endorse a product in the program, and it created amazing results for the brand. I took that case study to other brands and other podcasts and began to build what is now PodcastOne. My background includes working as a national sales representative in New York City, Boston, and Los Angeles. I then moved on to run the advertising and monetization content plan for a mobile startup company, Amp’d Mobile, in 2008. Then I further developed my business knowledge in the online audio industry working for a major radio representation sales firm, in developing and monetizing their streaming platform. Podcasting was a natural transition for me. RI: Tell us a little bit about that first meeting you had with Norm. Norm and I hit it off immediately. The only thing we disagreed on was the fact that I am a Celtics fan and Norm is a Lakers fan. We had a great conversation about the industry and the excitement surrounding the on-demand digital audio content world. Norm is a legend in the industry and has accomplished so much in his career. The fact that he saw so much potential in me and what I had already created further justified to me that podcasting has an exciting future. Norm is not only a great business partner, but a great friend. I’m very much looking forward to seeing where we take this venture. RI: How did you convince him podcasting was the way of the future? I didn’t really have to. Norm has an amazing understanding of how the radio industry has changed over the years and where things are going. Podcasting allows talent to connect directly to the consumer, and for a content guy like Norm, that really excited him. Since our first conversation, we have launched PodcastOne programs with talent that includes Steve Austin, Chris Jericho, Kathie Lee Gifford, Brandi Glanville, Bret Easton Ellis, Rosie O’Donnell, Dennis Miller, Laura Ingraham, and more. RI: What’s it like having his knowledge and help behind this project? www.radioink.com
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Norm Pattiz with Christopher “Kit” Gray
It’s like going to business school every day with Norm. His experience in programming, sales, relationship-building, talent management, marketing, distribution, and growing a business is a huge asset to our company. He is a master dealmaker, and I truly enjoy spending time with him, as I know not many people get to do what I do every day. RI: Where do you see this going with Norm leading the charge? Our future is limitless. On-demand content is how my generation consumes media, and it’s our job to bring the best talent and programming directly to them. We are doing that now, and we will continue to do that over time. Norm and I have fast-forwarded this industry a solid five years, and we are bringing accountability and structure to the industry that advertisers need and want. RI: Where do believe it can go? PodcastOne is the future of talk programming, and is specific to what people want to hear. Based on the success our advertisers are having right now, excitement about talk programming is back with advertisers in a major way. We provide advertisers with targetability, structure, and accountability. PodcastOne makes it easy for advertisers to do business with podcasters on a massive scale, and over time that will expand even more. I’d be extremely happy if this became our Westwood One all over again!
January 6, 2014 | RADIO INK | 39
12/24/13 10:33 AM
NORMPATTIZ INTERVIEW
“Podcasting is radio. It is radio on demand, and it is the future. Not all radio is going to be on demand, but a significant piece of radio as an industry, and radio ought to do more to embrace it rather than be frightened by it.”
are two clicks away from listening to whatever you want to. Many popular DJs and talk hosts have been fired. Is podcasting for them? Absolutely! Here’s the deal with podcasting. It’s been a mom-and-pop store. NPR has always had a group of loyal listeners, but generating revenue has not always been their number one priority. Comedy has been a very strong area for comedians who’ve been screwed by club owners since they began. They didn’t start because they had some huge revenue-generating model. It was a way to promote their tours, appearances, hats, mugs, T-shirts, and all kinds of things. It turned out to be a place advertisers started to access, especially directresponse advertisers. They were successful, with the fans of these personalities accessing their products. Now we’re just taking it to the next logical level, and for a variety of reasons, the opportunity exists. Look, I don’t need to be doing this right now. I’ve got plenty of things to do. I’m a regent for the University of California, chairman of the National Nuclear Security Laboratory at Los Alamos and Livermore, CA. I’ve got plenty of things to do, but when this opportunity came my way, I thought, this is too incredibly cool not to do it. It fired up my old Westwood One early-stage juices, which was the most fun I ever had, with one big additional opportunity: I also had the money to fund this thing. I reconstructed a lot of the people that used to work with me at Westwood One. Beyond that, the average age of the 20 or so people that work for the company is about 28 or 29. It’s invigorating. It’s exciting, and it’s going to work. What are some of the most pop-
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ular podcasts on the network? Well, we have Adam Carolla, of course, who is probably the gold standard in terms of the frequency of the podcast he does, the revenue that he generates, and the persona that he has. The NPR we represent, NPR L.A. and NPR New York, have very, very strong audiences. We don’t monetize them to the level we do our own podcasts. They are fairly restrictive on the advertising they will accept. New shows, like Steve Austin, are the slam-dunk biggest hits. We put him on several months ago, and his audience keeps building and his advertiser support keeps building. We’ve also launched programming for women. There’s not a lot of programming in that area, and advertisers want that audience. So we launched Kathie Lee Gifford, Brandi Glanville, a program called Ask Women, and author and screenwriter Bret Easton Ellis, whose ability to attract big-name guests has made him very popular and downloadable. Anything that draws an audience — and consequently, there are a lot of topics that are very new and couldn’t possibly find an audience on radio nationally. They might be able to find a few local markets that would give them a shot. If I went to radio with the people I just mentioned, there would be no way to get major-market clearances, or a significant number of clearances. So now the worm has kind of turned. It used to be that if you had a program, you started out with a podcast and eventually you might get to radio. Now there is no reason to get to radio if you have a successful podcast. Podcasting is radio. It is radio on demand, and it is the future. Not all radio is going to be on demand, but a significant piece of radio as an
industry, and radio ought to do more to embrace it rather than be frightened by it. How many downloads is considered a success? If you’ve got a program that generates 50,000, 60,000, 70,000 downloads, that is packageable with other podcast programs. If you have a program that deliver 200,000 downloads, that’s a program that doesn’t need anything to be packaged with it. Some of the podcasts that we have on our platform regularly go over 1 million downloads. The interesting thing is it’s a great laboratory because we know how many downloads we did, lickety-split. We can tell what parts of the podcasts are working. We can tell which interviews drove audience and which didn’t. Where do you see PodcastOne two or three years from now? I think PodcastOne will be generating significantly more revenue, and other players will have entered the game, and it will be a much larger category with advertisers looking to access those P1 listeners. I think it’s going to be a similar track to what happened with syndicated radio. When I started there were a handful of people in what was called barter syndication. There were people syndicating programs like American Top 40 that were selling them to radio stations for like $40 a week. That model wasn’t going to build an industry, so barter syndication was simply getting advertisers to spend on syndicated radio shows just like they did in network TV and network radio, which was primarily news. I think we are going to have that same effect, and if we do, things will go very nicely for us here. www.radioink.com
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SUCCESSSTORY
SERVING 40 COUNTIES FOR 40 YEARS
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ew companies can claim pioneers as their founders. We at Big River Broadcasting certainly can. Big River Broadcasting was started by “The Father of Rock ‘n’ Roll,” Florence, AL native Sam Phillips, and continues to be operated by his family. In 2013, WQLT-FM (Great Classics Q107), a part of Big River Broadcasting and the Sam Phillips Music Corp., celebrated its 40th anniversary on air. A series of special appearances honoring this landmark achievement for service in the Tennessee
Valley began on September 9, 2013. Our slogan, “Serving 40 counties in three states,” gave us a perfect opportunity to commemorate those 40 years the on air by visiting all 40 counties with live appearances and giveaways! In appreciation of the support of listeners and businesses, we gave away 40 free live remotes (one in each county, and valued at $1,000 each). We solicited businesses to register online and selected one business per county at random. Then for eight straight weeks, we hit the road with our team! At the remotes listeners could come up and spin the “Ultimate Prize Wheel, “ which included prizes like $107 on the spot, free
BY HALLEY PHILIPS Director of Digital Marketing, Big River Broadcasting
dinners, hotel getaways, CDs, T-shirts, can coozies, and much more! Also, at each remote stop we registered listeners for a grand prize opportunity to participate in a $107,000 cash grab! On December 16, Debbie Swain from Athens, AL was picked up in a blacked-out vehicle and taken to an undisclosed location that held $107,000 in cash! Debbie was met by a Florence police officer and escorted to the basement of the Suntrust Bank building. Then she was given a minute and seven seconds to grab all the cash she could. Debbie ended up with a total of $7,980!
>>Click the picture below to watch a contest winner swimming in cash.
Big River Broadcasting is independently owned and operated, and we are proud to say that we have served the Tennessee Valley for 40 years with a commitment to 24/7 live, local radio. www.radioink.com
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SUCCESSSTORY WBLS/NEW YORK CITY
WBLS: Leading The Radio Pack With Video
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he use of video to recap events and promote a brand is vitally important for radio stations in the digital world. Video is hot. YouTube is popular. And every day radio is making progress, with more and more stations using video on a daily basis. Those that get it are dedicating resources — and money — to video departments. WBLS in New York City, headed up by the brainpower of GM Deon Livingston and PD Skip Dillard, is one of the stations already taking full advantage of video. Dillard says, “We employ two full-time electronic newsgathering people who shoot and edit. We shoot almost daily.”
Check Out WBLS’s YouTube Channel.
THERE IS ALSO A ONE-CLICK BUTTON FOR THE STATION’S YOUTUBE CHANNEL AT WBLS.COM Here are two expertly edited videos sent in to Radio Ink by WBLS Director of Promotions and Digital Branding Sherise MalachiWright. Wright says WBLS’s videos are housed on the WBLS-TV YouTube channel, and special e-mail blasts and social media promotes everything. The key: The WBLS digital department turns things around quickly, so listeners can see instantly what their favorite radio station is doing. The video below is a recap of a popular annual WBLS event called “Circle of Sisters.” Held in October at the Jacob Javitz Center in New York City, the event attracts over 47,000 attendees and hundreds of sponsors and vendors. This year it featured two concerts, visits by tons of celebrities, and a live version of Family Feud with Steve Harvey.
WBLS GIVES BACK AT THANKSGIVING For the holidays, WBLS hosts its WBLS Gives Back campaign, and the video below above some highlights, as afternoon drive hosts Earthquake and Deja Vu of Quake’s House surprised families in need with Thanksgiving dinners.
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COMMUNITYSERVICE KGSR
Emmis’ Blues On The Green: An Austin Community Tradition
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GSR/Austin’s Blues on the Green started in the acts along with a some up-and-coming Triple A acts. But early ’90s at a shopping center in North Austin, as it’s really a family event — no alcohol sales — that draws a series of free shows that helped promote the mall. Austinites almost exclusively.” Eventually, the event outgrew the venue — customers Gilmore says Blues on the Green is a signature event for couldn’t park — so, after a couple of moves, for the last the station and the community, and makes a modest profit 15 years the event has been held at Austin’s Zilker Park, from sponsorship sales. “If you live in Austin, you’ve been the same downtown jewel that holds the Austin City Limits to, or at least know about, KGSR’s Blue’s on the Green,” he Music Festival each fall. Shows are every other Wednesday says. “The goodwill generated and opportunities for the evening, all summer long. station, our sponsors, and our community partners to gain Emmis/Austin GM Scott Gilmore says crowds run exposure is unique.” about 7,000-8,000 people on a typical Wednesday, and the event is free to residents. “It’s also very Austin-centric, Special thanks to Emmis Events and Projects Manager Rachel Lepera for the like KGSR,” he points out. “We book local and regional Emmis Marketing Group for her help with this piece. HERE’S A VIDEO RECAP OF THE EVENT.
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SUCCESSSTORY
CONNOISSEUR LONG ISLAND
Digital Success Story
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ur thanks to Lisa Phillips and her digital team at Connoisseur Long Island for sharing their success stories from 2013. Phillips says about $1 million in
digital business was written based on ideas created by her team, and that they’re “psyched to kick it up in 2014.”
K-98.3’s Wedding of a Lifetime: Outstanding Digital Platform
Teacher of the Month Sold annually, this is one of K983.com’s biggest content drivers
Connoisseur Media Long Island’s Summer Camp Directory This has been a digital best seller for the past three years.
Bars that Rock Feature Channel for Heineken on 943theshark.com.
K-98.3’s Wedding of a Lifetime: Outstanding Digital Platform
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The Connoisseur Digital Dream Team: Digital PD Jon Daniels Digital Sales Manager Lisa Phillips, graphic designer and Content Manager Don Israel, and Digital Sales Coordinator Roseanne Sheridan.
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SUCCESSSTORY
FROM UNKNOWN PROSPECT TO BIG RADIO SPENDER
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ales managers tell their sellers this one simple statement every day: Bring your client an idea that will work, and you’ll have a client for life. Here’s a success story based on exactly that, and in a category, real estate, where radio doesn’t historically see a lot of spending. Max Media/Denver Creative Services Director D.J. Williams turned a simple day of prospecting into a happy repeat client. While reading 5280 Magazine, Williams came across a special feature on 20 local residential Realtors. He wanted to get in front of them with a big idea. Each Realtor published an e-mail address, and that was all Williams needed to get the creative juices flowing. He sent each Realtor a personal e-mail letting him or her know he was putting together an insured contest in which one of his stations, Jammin 101.5, and a sponsoring Realtor would give listeners a chance to win a $300,000 home. The station and client would hold a live event www.radioink.com
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and give 100 finalists the chance to roll six special dice in the hope they’d spell out “M-OV-E-I-N.” Williams says that out of the 20 prospects, three got back to him. “Within hours I had a signed a contract with Susan Duncan Homes, cash up front, for six weeks that covered the costs of the contest and insurance.” The response was so amazing Williams was able to get the client to commit to another promotion: the title sponsorship of the station’s first “Ultimate Old School Jam” at the Pepsi Center in Denver. That show was wildly successful. Williams and Max Media Denver proved once again that clients want good ideas that help build their brands and bring them prospects. New clients are not going to walk through your door. You need to work hard and smart to get them, and that’s what Williams did with Susan Duncan Homes in Denver.
>>Watch video about the Old School Jam.
For more details on this promotion, contact D.J. Williams at djw@maxmediadenver.com. January 6, 2014 | RADIO INK | 45
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y ED Edito RY r in Ch AN ief
Boxing legend Mike Tyson in the studio with Jay Mohr.
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SPORTS TALK WITH MOHR OF A TWIST
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Why did you decide to get into radio? Well, it wasn’t getting into radio as much as it was getting into Sports radio. I really had no aspirations to talk about politics or do a Morning Zoo show. My entire life all I’ve ever talked about in my free time is sports — ever! That’s really the only thing that I have knowledge of. And what I love about sports; it’s such a social currency. It’s all I talk about in my everyday life, so to have an actual job where I get to implement my only discernible skill is a best-case scenario for me.
ay Mohr is perfectly happy in his daily routine as a sports talk radio host. The bright lights of TV and movies and the late nights of “Jay is super standup comedy snarky, and take a back seat I mean to his lifelong passion for talking sports. Mohr that as a became a recognizable star when he appeared compliment. alongside Tom Cruise in Jerry Maguire. He He knows compounded his success with a run on Saturday his sports Night Live. Then there were best-selling books and adds and more TV and film appearances to follow. Jay to it with Mohr was living the life of a star. his natural Now, at age 43, Mohr says he has the life comedic he wants. “It’s a great routine, it’s a great life. I talent. Wait am firmly, firmly rooted in this job. I am going to a second make damn sure that there isn’t a vacant chair — his show to take down the line.” Mohr adds that, much like is after Jay Leno, he’ll refuse to leave that desk: “I will be mine. So I’m shown the door long before I ask where it is.” opening for After just one year with Fox Sports Radio, Jay. How did Mohr is at the 150-affiliate mark. He says there that happen?” are big announcements to come in 2014, adding — Dan Patrick that his show is a hit with listeners, PDs, and radio salespeople because he genuinely cares about all of them. Listen to the audio of our interview with Jay Mohr HERE. www.radioink.com
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You were approached about a show at a time when there were networks launching left and right, and this is one of the most competitive times in Sports Talk radio history. What were those early conversations like? They were very hand-in-glove, and they were very kind. It was very different from television network meetings. I was asked for my ideas for the show, and I asked for a few days to put my ideas on paper. I wanted to show my bosses these were my ideas. I actually wrote them down on a yellow legal pad, hour one, hour two, hour three, and these are the bits we can work into the show on a weekly basis, these are things we can do daily, like the “Twitter Hat Trick Club,” which has become very popular at the start of the show, and “Rapid Fire” at the end. I wanted the show to be the most interactive show, which is what I thought was missing from Sports Talk radio. Here’s the thing: I am the P1. When I leave here, I’m listening to Sports Talk radio on the way home. I listen to Dan Patrick every morning on the way in, and I tell the listeners that up front. On January 2, 2013, I started the job. On January 1, I was you. I was sitting in the car listening to Sports Talk radio. I always thought local radio tends to get bogged down in X’s and O’s and sort of runs aground, with a lack of national news. I think they hamstring themselves. The national ones seemed to me to be a little exclusive. I didn’t really feel like anyone was a part of it, sort of “We’re over here
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“Year to year, Jay has increased our men 25-54 numbers by 133 percent. He’s part of our overall strategy at 940 WINZ to be the leader in high-quality sports programming and local play-by-play in South Florida.”
Adam Carolla and Jay Mohr
—Grace Blazer, WINZ-AM/Miami
doing national radio and you call in and we will take your call.” I thought the real big missing piece of the Sports Talk puzzle was the interaction, and maybe that’s from standup comedy, where I need to hear that laughter right away, that immediate feedback. People tweak the show all day, they call the show all day, and the biggest thing we have in the show every day is not me, it’s we. Then it’s up to me for the next three hours to prove it.
by Levi Strauss jeans. It’s pretty funny, and an incredibly unique advertiser integration that I’ve never seen on any other show. That’s not gratuitous. The tweets are actually funny, that’s why they are getting read.
Before January 1 of this year, when you were still a listener, what did you write down on that legal pad you thought could create a better show? “Interaction” was one through five. That was the huge one that I wrote down in capital letters. I What is the “Twitter Hat Trick Club”? You tweet the show, you hashtag thought the fun had somehow gotten removed #jaymohrsports, and you just tweet jokes or from Sports Talk radio. It seemed like it was a great observations during the show. We read ton of data and a ton of interviews and nobody them throughout the show, and if you have really seemed to be enjoying themselves. That’s three that are great during the course of the why I love Dan Patrick. He’s having a great time. show and I read them at the end of the show, I get the sense, when I listen to Dan, it’s the you are the winner of the “Twitter Hat Trick greatest job he’s ever had. I wanted to take Club.” Those are the only people I follow on that, since I’m a standup comedian, I wanted to implement the ability to do bits and to make Twitter. What’s great about Twitter on the show is things a lot lighter and implement that into the when we had a sponsor like Virgin America opening monologue. When I interview guests, I didn’t want to and they had a hashtag, #biggameplane, they asked us to use it. I think they were surprised do the corporate answer and the corporateto see 4,000 tweets in three hours with the speak. There is nothing more repulsive in sports #biggameplane hashtag. Whenever we have media than asking someone, “How did you feel sponsors, these people are a lot smarter when you hit that game-winning basket?” The then we give them credit for, these P1s. You questions have become mind-numbingly boring tell somebody we have a new sponsor like and routine. I want to ask these guys more fun Signature by Levi Strauss, then people start questions and have a better time. When they Twittering about so-and-so and their Signature come back on the show, they remember they 48 | RADIO INK | January 6, 2014
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had a good time — I’m just trying to separate myself from the pack. I still get the answers out of them that we need to hear, but there’s no reason, whoever you are interviewing, you can’t have a laugh along the way. There are things like, Derek Carr, from Fresno State, his son was in the intensive care unit. I ask him about that since both my sons were in the NICU. I just told him I knew what he was going through. He told me that his son’s intestines were all bunched up and they had to untangle them. I asked him when they untangle them, do they actually untangle them like a rope or do they separate them surgically and reattach them? That was the conversation we had for the next four minutes. It wasn’t about touchdowns or seam routes. It was two guys that have had babies in the neonatal intensive care unit talking about real life. Then, of course, we touched on Fresno State football at the end of the interview. The thing about social media is you get an instant response. People seem to be responding in the positive, saying, “I’m really glad these types of interviews are happening.”
MOHR ON LENO
>>Jay Mohr visits The Tonight Show with Jay Leno to talk about his radio show. Sometimes radio gets the ugly-stepchild rap compared to TV. When we see people coming to radio from TV, it’s kind of surprising. What are the big differences between you having fun on the radio and what you did on TV? Well, what’s great about radio is that it’s immediate and right now. Every day, everything is fluid. The thing about TV and movies, it’s the old expression: “Hurry up and wait.” You run like heck, then you are in the trailer for two hours waiting for someone to adjust a light and then you run like heck. You are really only working an hour out of a 15-hour day. Whereas radio, you come in and find out that someone resigned or got arrested, there’s been a quarterback change, there’s been a blockbuster trade. It happens on your watch, www.radioink.com
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and it’s an incredibly fluid situation. It’s a bit of a balancing act; you are getting this real-time. Sports is the last true reality show in our lives. It’s live, it’s not scripted, it happens in real time. You’re never going to get a tweet at 9 o’clock about who is going to be voted off The Bachelor and it’s going to make national news. Last night I was about to do a podcast and I get a Nick Saban-to-Texas tweet at 10 o’clock at night. I thought, “This is amazing!” It’s in such real time, it’s so immediate and sometimes the rumors don’t pan out, sometimes they do. There’s that old expression, “Where there’s smoke, there’s fire,” and it’s my job to walk the listener closer and closer to the fire. If a story turns out to be true, we all stand there and get warm. When you flip the mic on every day, what are you trying to accomplish? I’m trying to be entertaining and truthful. I’ve told the listeners I will never deal in what-ifs. I will never deal with “sources say,” and I will never deal with hypotheticals. I think that’s lazy radio. It’s a great way to get the phone lines jumping. When the Jameis Winston case first happened, I let the listeners know that when you turn on your TV and you go up and down the dial, you gotta realize that the so-called experts know the exact same thing you do, and that’s nothing. We knew that his DNA was found in the victim’s underwear, we knew that there was an alleged victim that said he was the alleged perpetrator. Until that clock strikes that we are moving forward or not, it’s all hypothetical and it’s a waste of your time. Until there is an actual story, I’m not talking about it, and I didn’t. People seemed to appreciate it. Then when the news broke that the Florida DA was not going to file charges, I circled back around and said, “Now we have real news. Let’s talk about it.” So how do you prep and pick topics? There’s time when being a P1 works in my favor. I have an inherent sense of knowing when people are full. There are some stories
THTC: Twitter Hat Trick Club Jay Mohr’s “Twitter Hat Trick Club” daily benchmark is rooted in listener social interaction. Throughout the program, listeners tweet about the topics discussed that day using the hashtag #jaymohrsports, and the funniest and most creative comments are read on air. If three of a single listener’s tweets are selected to be read that day, they earn the “Twitter Hat Trick” (“hat trick” is a hockey term) and a follow from Jay on Twitter. The listeners have gotten so involved that they’ve created the Twitter Hat Trick Club and talk all day long using the #THTC hashtag. This extends Jay Mohr Sports beyond the show and has built a community of listeners across the nation. HERE’s an audio example of Mohr’s Twitter Hat Trick Club, for Levi’s Jeans
“Jay is one of the most entertaining hosts on the radio right now.” — Bryan Erickson, KBME-AM/Houston
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that people just can’t hear anymore. Whether it’s A-Rod or Richie Incognito, there are just times you listen to music instead of Sports Talk radio because you know that’s all they’re going to talk about and that’s all the callers are calling about, that’s all the tweets are about. And I tell the listeners up front, “Today is an A-Rod-free day. I refuse to say it and if you call and you say it, I am dumping out of the call. We’re not talking about it. We will circle back around when something new happens.” I think I have a pretty good finger on the pulse of the P1 because I am one. What if you miss a big one? If I’m wrong, by all means, call me and tell me I’m wrong. I’m not going to tell you to be quiet. Perfect example, a week ago, I was saying Ohio State should be ranked number two. I just kept going on and on about it. Then, like, the first four calls, people kept telling me that their strength of schedule is the same as Florida State’s and told me about certain wins, they’ve won 24 games in a row, and then about an hour into the show I said, “You guys are right, I was wrong. I had the whole monologue about Ohio State being propped up as this number two team in the country. You guys convinced me if you win 24 games in a
row, where should you be ranked, of course they should be ranked number two.” I think that is refreshing to the listener — that if they call a host and tell him he’s wrong, the host actually will have the ability to go, “Maybe I am wrong, let me get back to you after this break and if I’m wrong, I will admit that.” I have personally called radio shows and told hosts, back in the day, that they were wrong, and I got hung up on. When you first started out, did you have enough knowledge about every sport? I definitely learned a lot in the last year, because you have your ear to the ground a lot more when it’s your job. As far as what sports I knew the least about, I am not going to tip my hand. If people think I know more about something than I really do, I am not going to tell them otherwise. I am going to keep that my personal secret, and if nobody can figure it out by listening to the show, then I am a better actor than I really think. Do you get calls from your TV friends to try to get on your show to promote? I get it, yeah, whenever there is something to promote. I get the text from someone I haven’t heard from in a very long time.
“Not only is Jay a talent that I must listen to every day — I can’t go a day without it — but his ability and willingness as a syndicated celebrity to interact with the station at a local level creates new revenue opportunities for Fox Sports 910 Phoenix. I love that!” Neil Larrimore, KGME-AM/Phoenix
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Baseball legend Pete Rose with Mohr.
How do you handle that? Oh, if they’re funny, absolutely I let them on. Today, Steve Gorman from the Black Crowes is coming on because he’s a buddy of mine; he has nothing to promote. I learned from Bob Morton, when I was doing Mohr Sports on ESPN, he told me the number one rule, if you’re the captain of the ship, is to establish the fact that it’s a hang. It has to be a place that people show up and they are real slow to leave. That’s what I think we’ve established whenever we have guests in studio. When their segment is over, they are not hitting the Town Car. They are kind of hanging out and listening in. There’s no reason the drummer from the Black Crowes, on his off day from being on tour, asks to come in and hang out. We don’t take ourselves seriously. I think that’s also a big part of it too. With a lot of shows, it’s “My way or the highway; this is how I think and if you call up and disagree with me, you’re wrong and I’m going to stick to that no matter what.” I like to think that Jay Mohr Sports is more malleable . Best sports interview you’ve done so far? I don’t know if there’s one best sports interview. I don’t know of one person. I mean, my mom was going the chemotherapy for breast cancer and we had her on Thursdays on “Positivity Thursday,” where we really focus on positive stories. My mom came on and she became sort of the star as she became the most positive person I’d ever met. What was incredible about it was I didn’t realize she was my hero until talking to her on my nationally syndicated radio show. I got choked up, and it was very difficult not to cry on the air during that interview. My mom said, “I start chemotherapy tomorrow, and I cannot wait to get in that chair.” That sentence floored me. Her positivity, and her outlook, her energy and her enthusiasm, just knocked me flat on my back. I told the listeners when we came back from break that I had to take a moment to compose myself, and I said sometimes you don’t realize who your heroes are and sometimes they’re your parents and they are right in front of you, and you’re 43 years old and didn’t know until you’re in a live interview. Name a few sports figures you love to interview. I like guys that are willing to have fun. I don’t have a favorite. It’s more — and I’m sorry to do this to you — I really can’t say, “That guy was great and we had a great time.” It’s more the pieces of interviews that I know that I am the only person getting that person to speak that way. Whether it’s Chandler Parsons of the Houston Rockets or Jordan Lynch from Northern Illinois University or with Derek Carr giving me the corporate answer about whether or not he wants to get the Heisman. When I www.radioink.com
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finally wear them down and get them off their corporate script, that public relations Division 1, when I finally get a genuine answer out of them by wearing them down and loosening them up, that’s when I feel like I should reach up and ring a bell or something. Do you have a lot of listeners on the computer, on their phones, and downloading the podcasts? It’s big. I’ll be having dinner or feeding the baby and look at my Twitter feed. All of a sudden people are tweeting, “Oh, my God, that interview with James Ihedigbo was incredible” or “Patrick Chung was hilarious today.” It happened six hours ago and they are just now tweeting it to me, so they are obviously listening. It’s an important medium, the podcast, and I got in early with my own podcasts, so I’m well aware of the fact that you can get 250,000 or half a million downloads of the show. Being on iHeartRadio and having my own channel, people can listen any time they want. Some people miss part of the show because they have to go to work. They’ll come out during their lunch break to listen to what they can, but now with iHeartRadio.com, they can just type in my name and listen whenever they want. What’s amazing right now, Ed, in this time that we are living in, and it wasn’t long ago, you’ll remember this, it was only about nine years ago that you and I would be someplace and we’d look at our watches and say, “Oh, my God, we gotta get home and watch The Sopranos.” Those days are gone. So if people
“The addition of Jay Mohr Sports to Tampa Bay’s Sports Radio 620 WDAE has been a big breath of fresh air! Here’s a cat that knows his sports and has a great damn time talking about it! I get more positive feedback on Jay each day, and the ratings are saying the same thing – double that of the competition! It has been a huge upgrade for us at 620 WDAE!” — Doug Hamand, WDAE-AM/Tampa Bay
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“What Jay brings every day is preparation, passion, and a relentless sense of humor. Listen to 10 minutes out of any show and he’ll have you hooked.”
— Jon Madani, KVET-AM/Austin
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Mohr shares an uneasy embrace with Ray Donovan co-star Dash Mihok
are going to listen whenever they want, don’t bore them, don’t BS them, be honest. And you better entertain them. One year and 150 stations, that’s pretty good. You don’t see that a lot. Very lucky, and very happy about that. Very big announcements coming in 2014, about new stations, very fired up about that. I think it’s a scary thing for a PD to go outside his comfort zone and go from local to national. If there’s a message I could extend to program directors, it’s that one of the things I love is when I do my show by remote, because if I have a corporate show in Orlando and I use the studios in Orlando, I love meeting the program directors. I love meeting the salespeople because those are the ones who keep everything afloat. Apparently everybody in radio that ever came before me, that’s the part of the job that they hated the most. Maybe it’s because I’m an egomaniac and a standup comedian, but to me that’s the most fun. If I am in Tampa using your studio and you are nice enough to let us use it and put our show on instead of local radio, I can’t wait to meet that person, shake their hand, and say thanks.
If somebody calls you and says, “We want you to be in this killer movie and it’s going to require you to be wherever for X amount of time and you can’t do your radio show,” what would you do? Can’t do it. I have a job right now. I work for Clear Channel Communications, I have a great life. I pick my son up at preschool every day at 12:35 p.m., I put him down for his nap at 1:15 p.m. every single day. It’s a great routine, it’s a great life, and it’s amazing at 43 years old to sit back and realize, “Oh, now I’ve made it. Now I get it.” I can’t do it. I am firmly, firmly rooted in this job. I am going to make damn sure that there isn’t a vacant chair to take down the line. Much like Jay Leno refuses to leave that desk. I will be shown the door long before I ask where it is. Where do you want to take the show from here? It’s hard to conceptualize where it could go because, I mean, I’m greedy. I think what we’re doing is exceptional, and so is the crew: Greg Toohey, my executive producer, and John Ramos, my technical producer, and Dan Beyer, my anchor. I just want the show to reach anyone that would enjoy the show, if that’s 6,000
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12/24/13 10:45 AM
MARCH 10 & 11, 2014 HYATT REGENCY MISSION BAY SAN DIEGO, CA
W W W. S P O R T S R A D I O C O N F E R E N C E . C O M March 10, 2014 8:00 a.m.-Noon Exhibit Setup Noon-1:15 p.m. Registration (Exhibit Area) 1:15-1:30 p.m. Opening Remarks
talent? What are the keys to building brand awareness for new players, and how do you motivate them to “come to practice” and run the laps necessary to scoring a lifetime career? This session will explore the ways some PDs have gone outside the box to find tomorrow’s Sports radio super stars. Moderator: Jack Silver, Program Director, NBC Sports Radio Jon Chelesnik, CEO, Sportscasters Talent Agency of America Eric Weiss, President, the Weiss Agency Inc.
and college sports fill stadiums and arenas across the U.S. -- and local radio’s coffers as well. What are the secrets to getting the station cash register ringing? Be prepared to take home winning packages that will help sell more local and motor sports. Moderator: Brooke Trissel, SVP/Membership, Radio Advertising Bureau 11:05-11:15 a.m. On Deck Presentation
5:00-5:45 p.m. 11:15-12:00 Tapping the Full Potential of Your Talent Advertiser Super Session What are the keys to unlocking the power that Sports radio talkers bring not only to the mic, but to today’s diverse multiple Some of the biggest advertisers rely on sports to instill awareness and build loyalty for their brands. How can your station enhance platforms? How do you inspire top talent to play ball with your 2:45-3:30 p.m. and grow its role in these mega-dollar marketing partnerships? station? Does major league talent have to mean major league How to Sell Sports Radio: It’s Not Spots and Dots Hear from top advertisers and agencies who will share what they In sheer numbers, Sports and Sports Talk radio have grown every headaches? And how do you create a harmony between sales year for the past 10 years -- up 64 percent during that time. And and programming that benefits your players -- and the station? need from you before they open their wallets. Our panel of top programmers and talent offer real life examples Moderator: Thom Callahan, President, Southern California there is no sign of that growth stalling. The advent of more FM of how they work together and what it takes to coach top talent Broadcasters Association stations converting to Sports and Sports Talk and the impact of PPM on all formats across the dial have created new and compel- to even greater heights. Noon-1:30 p.m. ling strategic opportunities for programming sports on radio and Moderator, Rick Scott, President/CEO, Rick Scott & Lunch radio’s digital platforms. But selling sports is not just about selling Associates 1:30-2:20 p.m. numbers -- or even about numbers at all. Learn what it takes to Keynote sell sports successfully. We guarantee you will leave this session 6:00-7:30 p.m. Cocktail Reception with at least three new ideas you can use right away! 2:20-2:30 p.m. Moderator: Joe Bell, Miami Market Manager, Beasley On Deck Presentation March 11, 2014 Broadcast Group 2:30-3:15 p.m. 3:30-4:10 p.m. 7:45-8:30 a.m. Selling Sports Content & Platforms -- Any Market, Any Size Tips for Growing Your Sports Brand Across Emerging Continental Breakfast How can networks help local Sports stations localize content for Demographics listener appeal in mid-sized to smaller markets? What are the 8:30-9:10 a.m. The Sports radio audience has changed dramatically since the differences in selling sports in large, medium, and small markets? The Social Media Effect on Sports & Sports Broadcasting launch of the first Sports radio station more than 25 years ago. And while play-by-play is a great Sports station asset, selling out Shifting demographics and exploding ethnic trends point toward As Twitter’s impact and influence on sports and sports media the local avails can be a challenge. How do successful stations continues to grow, individual athletes and sports teams are a more culturally diverse audience for sports programming and generate maximum local revenue from play-by-play? This session expanding their brands with all forms of social media. And more open the door to new advertising clients. What does it take to covers the bases on selling local and play-by-play platforms, get inside the heads of the new core listeners? And what unique and more, they are discovering that the key to success is rooted along with where to score extra revenue points with fan loyalty in authenticity. Learn how to use social media tools that engage selling proposition in terms of audience dynamics does Spanishprograms and other marketing partnerships. fans and advertisers more effectively from a panel of sports language Sports radio offer? Finding the right approach on the marketing experts. 3:15-3:30 p.m. air and in front of the client can score home runs in listeners and Break revenues if you deliver the right pitch. Slide into home plate with 9:10-10:00 a.m. the ideas you’ll take back to your station after this session. Keynote 3:30-4:15 p.m. Moderator: Berry Jasin, SVP National Sales/Consolidated The Future of Sports Radio: Executive Focus 10:00-10:20 a.m. Operations, Spanish Broadcasting System Leading Sports radio executives and programmers present their Break Dick Kalt, EVP/Partner, CRN International views and visions of what’s in store for Sports formats in the 10:20-11:05 a.m. coming year, as well as their views on programming, talent, and 4:10-4:20 p.m. Home Court Advantage: How to Make Money with where the sports ad market is headed in the coming year. On Deck Presentation Collegiate, High School, and Motor Sports 4:15 p.m.-4:30 p.m. 4:20-5:00 p.m. From the Indy 500 to NASCAR, Formula One, and drag racing, Closing Remarks Developing Tomorrow’s Sports Radio Stars Today motor racing drives attendance, fan support, and sponsorships As in any team sport, developing a strong bench is critical to con- to racetracks across the country. Meanwhile, local high school *Sessions and times subject to change. tinuing station success at all levels. Where do you find tomorrow’s
1:30-2:45 p.m. Keynote
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6,000 markets or 600 markets or 60, wherever anyone’s happy listening to it. I feel like I have to go to a listener’s house and pat them on the back and go, “No, you don’t understand. This really is the best and I can’t do this without you, thank you.” So whoever wants the show, I can say, you are not going to get any other show, no one is going to outwork us, and no one is going to put on a show like we do. You can have San Francisco and talk about the 49ers and the Giants for four hours, and after that I can talk about the same thing for three hours, and the show after that can talk about San Jose Sharks hockey, and you can have your 49ers updates and all that, but I guarantee you that if I come to your town you are not going to find a group of guys more passionate, with more respect for the listeners, the PDs, and the salespeople putting this together, and it all staying afloat. I guarantee it. We will not be outworked, and there is nothing on the radio that is as funny as this. I know that in my bones, that if any other show wants to compare themselves to our show, it’s like the old gunslinger. I’ll see you out in the middle of the road, and you are not going to walk away.
54 | RADIO INK | January 6, 2014
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Mohr and Terrell Owens
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12/24/13 10:45 AM
A BROADCASTER’S CRY FOR HELP SHOULD NEVER GO UNANSWERED We’ve all seen it happen. If not to us, then to someone we know. It’s tragic, it’s heartbreaking, and we are often at a loss about what to do. When tragedy strikes our own life, or that of a friend, relative, or colleague, we want to do the right thing. We want to help. The Broadcasters Foundation of America — the only charity devoted exclusively to helping broadcasters in acute need — steps in to help when the lives of broadcasters and their families are shattered by events that have left them unable to work or support themselves. Our grant recipients are your colleagues! They’ve had meaningful broadcasting careers in programming, on-air, production, sales, management, and more. Now these same broadcasters are destitute because of disease, accident, or even advanced age. The Guardian Fund of the Broadcasters Foundation is the resource that can make a difference in the lives of these broadcasters, with monthly grants that help with medical bills and basic living expenses. Through the Guardian Fund, the Foundation also distributes one-time emergency grants to offset the devastation of natural disasters like floods and hurricanes. Deborah Norville and George Stephanopoulos, two members of our distinguished board of directors, contributed their talent for a short video about the Foundation’s mission. Please take a moment to watch it. We hope you are never in a position to need the Foundation’s help. But with your support, we can ensure that no broadcaster’s cry for help goes unanswered. So please consider making a donation by visiting our website at www.broadcastersfoundation.org and clicking the “How To Help” button. You can also contact us at 212-373-8250 or info@thebfoa.org. Thank you.
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January 6, 2014 | RADIO INK | 55
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STATIONSPOTLIGHT KDKA/PITTSBURGH
The Great KDKA
T
here are so many great radio stations across the United States answer is: no. The call letters were assigned from a roster maintained with storied histories, call letters that drip with industry- to provide identification for ships and marine shore stations, those defining memories and pioneering accomplishments. And no being the only regular services then under formal license by the fedspotlight on historic stations would be complete without the great eral government. KDKA was simply the next set of call letters available. KDKA in the mix. We’re proud to share Soon after KDKA was licensed, plans with our digital readers these pictures were finalized with the Pittsburgh Post and a video compilation about a radio newspaper for the station to receive station that first went on the air in 1920. the 1920 presidential election returns Our thanks to KDKA PD Jim Graci and by telephone. The election-night broadCBS Radio Pittsburgh Market Manager cast, which began at 6 p.m. on Tuesday, Michael Young. November 2, 1920, originated in a Frank Conrad of Wilkinsburg, PA was tiny, makeshift shack atop one of the assistant chief engineer of Westinghouse Westinghouse Electric buildings in East Electric. An inventor who was fascinated Pittsburgh. by technology, Conrad built a transmitThat first broadcast was handled by ter, which he housed on the second engineer William Thomas, telephone floor of his garage. This experimental Frank Conrad line operator John Frazier, R.S. station was licensed as 8-X-K and was Credit: Corbis-Bettmann from explorepahistory.com McClelland on standby, and Leo the forerunner of KDKA Radio. Rosenberg, radio’s first announcer. The The U.S. Department of Commerce’s Bureau of Navigation issued election results were relayed to about a thousand listeners, who the first radio-station license ever to KDKA on October 27, 1920. learned through this incredible new medium that Warren Harding Many people ask if “KDKA” stands for anything, and the simple had beaten James Cox in the race for the Oval Office.
KDKA staffers pose for a photo originally captioned
Early adopters: KDKA listeners tune in .
“Thanks from all of us”
On the right: a young Dave Garroway.
KDKA MORNING RADIO •
• • • • •
Ed Schaughency: The Musical Clock, 1935-1938, The Ed and Rainbow Show (with Elmer Waltman) 1938-1945. Schaughency was with KDKA for a total of 48 years. Rege Cordic, Cordic & Company (1954-1965) Art Pallan and Bob Trow (19651968) Jack Bogut (1968-1983) John Cigna (1983-2001) Larry Richert and John Shumway, KDKA Morning News (2001-present)
56 | RADIO INK | January 6, 2014
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ON APRIL 10, 1962, KDKA CEASED PLAYING MUSIC
KDKA listeners at a station “Bandwagon” event
Harold W. Arlin, radio’s first
during World War II.
full-time announcer
Larry Richert played the last song aired as a regular part of KDKA programming: Don McLean’s “American Pie.”
www.radioink.com
12/23/13 4:26 PM
STATIONSPOTLIGHT
KDKA/PITTSBURGH
KDKA’S HISTORY IN THREE MINUTES
KDKA’s Fred Honsberger, Pirates ManAremote broadcast from Children’s
ager Chuck Tanner, and the station’s
Hospital of Pittsburgh.
John Cigna.
KDKA-TV’s “official car.” .
HISTORICAL HIGHLIGHTS •
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
•
MAJOR STORIES KDKA HAS COVERED SINCE 1920
January 1921: Harold Arlin becomes KDKA’s (and radio’s) first full-time announcer. Before becoming a broadcaster, he was a Westinghouse Electric employee. Arlin called the play-by-play on radio’s first baseball broadcast, a Pirates win over the Phillies at Forbes Field on August 5, 1921.
• • The first KDKA studio: this shack n the roof of a building in East Pittsburgh.
• • •
Staffers at work on publicity for the station.
• •
December 4, 1922: The KDKA Little Symphony is formed; it’s the first musical group established exclusively for radio broadcast. 1928-1934: KDKA’s studios move to the William Penn Hotel in downtown Pittsburgh. 1934-1956: KDKA occupies the entire third floor of the Grant Building. The Grant Building housed large studios that were home to the KDKA Orchestra and even the Westinghouse Planned Kitchen, where Evelyn Gardiner hosted the Home Forum Program. Mid-1950s: KDKA makes the switch from broadcasting network serials and soaps to all-local programming. 1976: KDKA’s first mobile studio is born: the Incredible Rainbow Machine. July 23, 1982: KDKA becomes the first U.S. station to broadcast in AM stereo. 1983: KDKA’s first Spaghetti Breakfast event takes place in Market Square.
• Fred Honsberger heads
Listeners at KDKA’s
out to report from the
annual “Spaghetti
road.
Breakfast.”
• • • •
The Incredible Rainbow Machine, KDKA’s mobile studio.
•
The KDKA blimp! Note the experimental
•
floating antenna.
KDKA MADE ITS FIRST AM STEREO BROADCAST ON JULY 23, 1982
•
The KDKA team at the 2010 Spaghetti
It was just 10 minutes, and heard in only a few locations. (Source: Regulating the Future:
Breakfast.
Broadcasting Technology and Governmental Control,
• • •
W.A. Kelly Huff)
Stock market crash of 1929 Pittsburgh’s Great Flood of 1936 World War II JFK assassination, 1963 Arrival of the Beatles in Pittsburgh,1964 Moon landing, 1969 Pittsburgh’s Dr. Thomas Starzl pioneers organ transplants, 1980s Ashland Oil tanker spill on the Monongahela, 1988 Death of Mayor Richard Caliguiri, May 1988 Space Shuttle disasters,1986 and 2003 Gulf War, 1991 New Pittsburgh International Airport opening, October 1992 USAir Flight 427 crashes on approach to Pittsburgh, September 1994 New Allegheny County Jail opens, May 1995 (John Cigna stays overnight and broadcasts live from jail next morning) Tornadoes on Mount Washington, June 1998 September 11, 2001 War in Iraq, 2003 Hurricane Ivan flooding, September 17, 2004
November 2, 2000: KDKA opens a 50th-anniversary time capsule (placed in 1970) in Gateway Center. Places new time capsule to be opened in 2050. www.radioink.com
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Another shot from 2010.
KDKA Mornign News hosts Larry
Pittsburgh Bishop David Zubik
Richert and John Shumway
with afternoon host Bill Rehkopf
January 6, 2014 | RADIO INK | 57
12/23/13 4:26 PM
STATIONSPOTLIGHT WINS-AM
WINS-AM Through The Years
A
the WINS Studios in Columbus Circle in New York, the all-News BELOW ARE PARTS ONE AND TWO OF A format debuted on April 19, 1965. The site was later the Gulf 1985 VIDEO RETROSPECTIVE ON WINS’ 20 YEARS OF DOING NEWS IN NEW YORK and Western Building and is now the Trump Hotel. Listen HERE to audio of the launch of the all-News format featuring GM Joel Chaseman, and the beginning of the very first newscast, anchored by Jim Gordon. Paul Smith did mornings at 1010 WINS for 30 years, becoming one of the most recognizable news voices in New York; he said doing the news for New Yorkers was like delivering milk, “giving them the daily necessities of life.” He started his long career at WCCC in Hartford. Smith later moved to afternoons on WINS and retired in 1994. WCBS-TV ON PAUL SMITH’S RETIREMENT
It wasn’t long before the competition was nipping at the heels of the dominant WINS. And that included Harvey Nagler, with his idea to go more in-depth on 880 WCBS. Again, channel 2 in New York takes a look at the radio news war with this piece comparing the two stations, which would eventually both become properties of the CBS brand. WCBS-TV ON NY’S NEWS RADIO RIVALRY
Stan Z. Burns, who spent 40 years as a newsman with WINS.
58 | RADIO INK | January 6, 2014
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Legendary sportscaster Mel Allen behind the mic at WINS.
www.radioink.com
12/23/13 3:03 PM
STATIONSPOTLIGHT
WTOP
WTOP: THE CREAM OF THE NEWS CROP TOP has been the number one-billing radio station in the country for the past three years. This state-of-the-art facility, owned by Hubbard Radio, continues to dominate in ratings and revenue because of its forward-leaning management and drive to take risks. WTOP will try — and invest in — any project that can help deliver its incredibly credible product to more listeners on any platform.
W
Listen to these classic audio cuts from WTOP over the years: THE 1980 WTOP NEWS JINGLE SEPTEMBER 11 ATTACK COVERAGE OF AIR FLORIDA CRASH AND TRAIN DERAILMENT WORLD BANK PROTESTS And here’s a video look from inside the WTOP Traffic Center.
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January 6, 2014 | RADIO INK | 59
12/23/13 4:33 PM
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BLAST From The PAST >> SALUTE TO S.F. ... The KGO/San Francisco morning show — Ted Wygant, Melanie Morgan, and Jim Dunbar — circa 1984. On the wall behind them: a “No whining” sign. This great pic is courtesy of Melanie Morgan.
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January 6, 2014 | RADIO INK | 61
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