Resistance Conspiracy Case Interview

0:

Coul'd you

then

sort

charging

black

describe the

r e a s o n s why

you

with

the

b o m b i n g o f t h e C a p i t o l i n 1984

believe that

grew o u t

of

liberation

organizations:

the

in

Puerto

tne

,ould

you

tnat

was

hiw

both

of

liberation

Force

war

a Puerto

Shakur, a l e a d e r

assisting

m

forces

from

US

these

every

conference

was

L i b e r a t i o n Army

they

Guerrilk

international that

took

or

aspect,

against

place and

the

up

examples But

from

brought

the

i s the

populations.

give

- both

- was

one

the

a domestic component a t

the

formation of

the

the into

that

the

point

and

international

( BLA)

tne

escapee f r o m

i n so

have more money t o w o r k w i t h ,

i n t e r m s o f numbers o f a g e n t s

after

a maximum

C o n s p i r a c y Case h a v e

l e a d e r s h i p of

i s n a t i o n a l i n i t s s c o p e and

Terrorist

prison hospital,

JTTF a c t u a l l y

insurgency

the J o i n t

froomed i m m e d i a t e l y from

tne Resistance

counter under

t h e REd

"war

r e v o l u t i o n a r y movements.

p r i s o n e s c a p e s . The

level

armed a c t i o n s i n

â&#x20AC;&#x17E; <K~c.Z7

the white a l l i e s

escaped

of

political

r e v o l u t i o n a r y groups.

r e v o l u t i o n a r i e s i n s i d e t h e US

comrades o f

as

clandestine

context domestically l a t e r .

fighter,

the Black

the

links with

initiation

them i s t n e m i l i t a r y

Rican independence

system which

many m o r e e x p e r t s

strategy

actually

many m o r e r e s o u r c e s , computer

of

i n the

to d e s t r o y

the

i n terms of propaganda. I w i l l

So

case

Uruguay were p a r t i c i p a t i n g

analysis the

this

UTTF was

Seme o t h e r

and

s t r a t e g y i n t h e Reagan era o f b u i l d i n g

1980.

of

b a c k t o an

s t r a t e g y a g a i n s t US

i t had

a way

o f armed

I n t e r n a t i o n a l Terrorism''

mark i n our

against

ment i n p o l i c e s u r v e i l l a n c e and police

investigation

i t , Israel

One

terrorism'' .

their

intensified

by a v a r i e t y

The

of

i n both

used

i n this

t ^ t Armed R E s i s t a n c e U n i t and

and

as

investigation

r e v o l u t i o n a r i e s t h e m s e l v e s and

against

aevaObments of t h i s

i n 1979.

p a r t of

aspects

indicted

o r g a n i z a t i o n s accused

movements i n s i d e t h e US

(JTTF) o f the FBI

Morales,

prison

t h e war

This

tactics witnin

being

are

i n d e p e n d e n c e movement and

against

p o i n t we

against

are

the o v e r a l l

terrorists" the

tne

political

they

meant/tnat /

p a r t op

against One

so tne or

aspect w

international I it

was

War

t h e r e aryl s e v e r a l a s p e c t s .

those,

national

At

s e v e n o f us who

of t h i s

" r.c:.er"H c o u n t e r i n s u r g e n c y

there of course/are

conference

, and

a b o u t " The

Conspiracy . t r i a l ,

7

were c l a i m e d

the b e g i n n i n g

ir.itia^r^

: I think

a^of

1985

you.,and

t h e armed c l a n d e s t i n e r e s i s t a n c e w i t h i n

F i g h t i n g Croup,

FRG

describe

psychological

to

i n 1978Y4 The

: t i :

of

Rican

Freedom F r o n t

tracing

the

h e r e i n t h e US.

1982

conference

Rico

was

:. n s :

of

United

are

enforcement

t n e US

And

from

case - the R e v o l u t i o n a r y We

of

the P u e r t o

anti-imperialists occured

law

the i n v e s t i g a t i o n

s t r u g g l e ana

against

s t a t e g o e s on w i t h t h e R e s i s t a n c e

t h e FBIs i n v e s t i g a t i o n

bombings which

Reistance.

the

forces'investigation

give

revolutionary

this

the s t a t e s e c u r i t y

of

: We really

first

they

represented

f a r as

the F B I . they

i t i s the

h a v e an

So

William after

Assail

security been accused

a major

of

develop-

unification

T h a t means t h a t

certainly

t o work w i t h .

and

Task

they

of have

incredibly sophisticate

have more p e o p l e i t i s t h e JTTF

and

that

actually of

pursued

the Puerto

that

Rican

i n d e p e n d e n c e movement a n d t h e B l a c k

up on an i n c r e d i b l e

armored

truck

i n Upstate

revolutionaries them.

companion could

even

evidence attempt

- was m u r d e r e d

Q:

t c f o r c e them

L:

: I n the process

198«

of several Puerto

to t e s t i f y

they

b u t enough

inner in

workings

and they

comrades - t o t u r n

then

t h e JTTF t a r g e t t e d

Freedom F r o n t , who had c h i l d r e n

centers

from

anc s c h o o l s

f o o d . They a t t e m p t e d

way t o c o o p e r a t e

with

passing people about to

o u t wanted on w a n t e d

pesters

posters

i n that

i n tne cars

library,

surveillanceAOf

anc d o c t o r ' s w a i t i n g

n e w s s t a n d , and s o l d i n e v e r y h o u s e s and p u b l i c

telephones

subpoenaed on

o f you ?

-

very

them i n f o r m a t i o n a b o u t t n e o f many

by g o i n g

activists

operated

under-

by t h e

to childcare

Against

t h e y knew t h a t

the 7 c f us,

some o f t h e

of people

in a

o f t h e t h i n g s t h e y t i c was t h e y

used

doing

and c h e c k i n g

soot

i f m e r e were any o f t h e

photos.

T h i s magazine

room i n t n e e n t i r e

grocery

block-

checks o f c a r s ,

published sensationalistic

poster

which

Alan

i n terms o f i d e n t i -

t o g e t a wide network

c a r . The JTTF a l s o wanted

-

o f bombings c l a i m e d

forrevolutionaries,

us i n R e a d e r s ' D i g e s t . c o m p l e t e w i t h

n e a r l y ever;.- d e n t i s t ' s

every

t o oeooie

state

i n 1981 and i n

as t h e i d e n t i t i e s

s t o r e s , because

t h e F B I . One

a d e s on h i g h w a y s as a means o f c h e c k i n g

and g i v e

pesters of the children.

revolutionaries self-concious

g o t leads

them i n c l a n d e s t i n i t y ,

with

he

were subpoenaed anc

i n f o r m a t i o n a b o u t now o e o p l e

t h e JTTF d i d t h e same t h i n g ate healthy

h e a l t h food

peoole

and f o r c e some p e o p l e

t n e comrades accused

and d i s s e m i n a t i n g w a n t e d

he t u r n e d

the various arrests

and t e s t i f y

with

before

MAnv o f them r e s i s t e d

t n e JTTF b o t h

gave them

were a r r e s t e d

t o t h e JTTF's i n v e s t i g a t i o n

to intimidate

traitor

black

testified.

o f t h e c l a n d e s t i n e o r g a n i z a t i o n s as w e l l

For example

UNited

t c o r i s o n than

were a b l e

until

i n which

imprisoned.

up t h e l e a d s

o f an

a shoot-out. His

c a s e - was one o f t h e o e o p l e

Rican r e v o l u t i o n a r i e s ,

t h e v a r i o u s movements. That

ground.

were

some o f t n e m e t h o d s i n r e l a t i o n

o f following

Several

t h r e e months o f h o s p i t a l i z a t i o n

investigation

i n this

and r a t h e r w e n t

methodology,

expropriation

one New A f r i k a n c o m r a d e - M t ^ y a r i

by t h e p o l i c e a f t e r

and i t t o o k

T h e r e was a m a j o r G r a n d J u r y

J o c i d you d e s c r i b e

few,

g o t from a f a i l e d

i n a n o r m a l manner. A n o t h e r man was t o r t u r e d

c a s e who r e s i s t e d

fication,

they

realized

ability to

time, several white a n t i - i m p e r i a l i s t s

i n cold blood

B E r k m a n , who i s one o f t h e d e f e n d a n t s that

that

o f t h e JTTF's i n v e s t i g a t i o n

Sekou O d i n g a was t o r t u r e d

.

movement.We

New Y o r k , known a s t h e 3 r i n k s e x p r o p r i a t i o n .

I n t h e process

function

revolutionary

f o r t h e JTTF i n t e r m s o f t h e i r

number o f l e a d s

were a r r e s t e d a t t h a t

Sh/^baka S u n d i a t a

an

o f chef 7 J f us arfd i s i n c h a r g e o f t h e i n v e s t i g a t i o n

i n 1981 t h e r e was a m a j o r b r e a k t h r o u g h

follow

with

the i n v e s t i g a t i o n

US, as w e l l

articles i s distribute as b e i n g i n

s t o r e . T h e r e was a l o t o f i l l e g a l was done a b s o l u t e l y w i t h o u t

warrants.

The US h a s a s y s t e m a t i c way w h e r e b v b o t h t e l e p h o n e , room o r h o u s e s u r v e i l l a n c e i s " d o n e . . . "^ere *j<urr*~J- i>£ j.^j ^ ' jJi-H-<_ <"Up^JL5u^t.< Wa^c .

Althougn ~ n r - - r ~ amtm* y t n e r o i , ^===ss—?»°r, u p n i n a l l or t n e s u b s e q u e n t t r i a l s .

0

c

They d i d a l o t o f b r e a k - i n s and

they

or course

used

/

into

again

homes anc p o l i t i c a l

Grant

Jury

offices

of families

s u b p o e n a s and t h r e a t s

cf

anc s u p p o r t e r s

imprisonment.

Q:

Could

and

why

vou

go more i n t o

the

s t a t e pursues

through

14

seoarace

w e e n 45

and

: We

70

years

already

an

us

i n prison basically

question

oefore

the

last

Meese was

indictment,

â&#x20AC;&#x201D; why

political

forced

p e o p l e i n t h e US

. along

w i t h the bombing of

the

blatant violations

tne

Iran/Contra

was

growing

midate to and -t the

stop

t h e US So

highest

Therefore

eneging

legal

.: H e r e for

us

to

t n e C a p i t o l t h a t we law

and

international

opposition against

US

indictment against

activists

from

us

from

there

are

r e s i s t a n c e . The

US

has

really

terrorists.

tnat

sectors

in resistance at a d i f f e r e n t

were b e i n g

sectors.

opposition

This

and

inti-

case i s d e s i g n e e

for clandestine resistance,

scandal

and

a

component^

from

tne

role

t h e r e i s a second a s p e c t of violence versus

sc

tnat

they

can

saying

tnat

to define control

p e o p l e who

t o some e x t e n t

wanting

it.

the it.

a do

in

c f t h e r e s i s t a n c e movement and perhaps n o t

to

nonviolence,

i n terms o f b u i l d i n g

have s u c c e e d e d

level,

Africa

s t r a t e g y to c o n t r o l

i n c l u d e s armed s t r u g g l e as

by

in

t c implement i t s a g g r e s s i v e

capacity

I think

by

exposed

domestic p o l i t i c a l

t o break l a w s

they

Grenada

f o r a p a r t h e i d i n South

possible

is

the

o f . P e o p l e were o u t r a g e d

stop

that

case

interventions in

g o v e r n m e n t w a n t s t o be a b l e

manipulated

Therefore

the time o f

i n v a s i o n of

the l i n e s

way

have

political

t h e US

Iran Contra

movement a l o n g

i s a l o t of r e l u c t a n c e

t h e US

peocle

to break

the

law,

i n demonstrations . f

e q u i v a l e n t to the §

resistance

the

the

after

law

any

already

US

i s p a r t of a

developing

between the msct m i l i t a n t

129a

i n t h e FRG

which i s usee a g a i n s t r e v o l u t i o n a r i e s

n

there i s nothing

b r i n g our

bet-

more. I t

strategy. This

At

to continue

and

years

resist

support

control

258

to

are accused

revolutionary strategy that

to p a r t i c i p a t e

I s t h e r e any

been

t h e Meese J u s t i c e D e p a r t m e n t

disgrace.

numerous d e m o n s t r a t i o n s

t h e r e s i s t a n c e movement i n e v e r y

a wall

out w i l i n g

the

and

by

were becoming more d e t e r m i n e d

b o t h US

illegal

activities

and

scandal

were p l a y i n g i n i t .

illegal

0:

brought

officials

i n t h e US

you

have

sentences

t o some o f

was

p l a t e d US

of

you

i n d i c t m e n t when t h e y

counterinsurgency

attention

movement, and

are

in total

t o g i v e us

the

to divert

protest

wno

within

indictment that

to d i v i d e the progressive

boundaries

received

T h i s goes b a c k

attempt

p r o t e s t versus

building

tactics

they want

lives.

needs t o r e p r e s s ,

the

developing-any

They want

o f our

anc

r e s i s t a n c e movement, e s p e c i a l l y t h e m o s t m i l i t a n t

i s a l s o an

legal

of

serious, militant

from

rest

us

t o o , e s p e c i a l l y among s t u d e n t s . , I n o r d e r

politics.

the

have a l r e a d y

the s t a t e pursue t h i s

teen

S c a n d a l and

policies,

those

you

would

to leave

A m e r i c a . T h e r e had

to

four of

against

f o r tne

Central

foreign

and

indictments against

C o n s p i r a c y Case, e s p e c i a l l y s i n c e

years

p s y c h o l o g i c a l r e a s o n s and

basically

tne s t a t e i s b r i n g i n g t h e s e

?

h a v e a j t o t a l o f 225

obvious

why

the Resistance

trials

is

and

detail

politics

like

that.

into

our

What t h e y

trials

h a v e done - w h i c h makes i t v e r y

- i s tnat

they

insist

we

snouic

be

difficult

tried

in

h a v e"" 3o n e " ? tia and

being

as

Sns^s

^'hVc' c hey ^rfav e c n a r g e d a l o c o f r e v o l u t i o n a r i e s w i t h " r a c k e t e e r i n g "

p a r t of r a c k e t e e r i n g i n f l u e n c e d o r g a n i z a t i o n s which

the Mafia.

Part of—ire—*s

the wnole aura

of drug

p u t s us on

trafficking

and crx

fact

none o f t h e

I

think

is

tnat

the o t h e r t h i n g they charged

"seditious can

do

or

tne seven

or currently

current t r i a l

t o do

•: 1 t h i n k

tnat

L e g a l l y , they

answer

t o your o r any

of

of

, anc

they

s c e n e o f any evidence

the

admit

of

and

the

of the c o n s p i r a c y

m e a n s " . Sc.

obviously

influence,

p r o t e s t and

What t h e y

to prove with

so

to overthrow

t h e US

trial

criminalization under

government. They

Ricans are

i t and

fighting

are c u r r e n t l y

an

using i t

i n M a s s a c h u s s e t t s , known as

t h a t combines b o t h

the

r a c k e t e e r i n g charges

that

Ohio

and

why

d i d the bombing

t n e g o v e r n m e n t has

t o expand t h e use

They d o n ' t

They

of

evidence which

nave t c p r o v e

Drought the t r i a l

that

any

they

say

they

of

t h a t we

you

domestic

can't

l a w s . And

p l a t e any

tne conspiracy

as

through

defined

by

of our

e a c h o t h e r , by a g r e e i n g

i n v a r i o u s o r g a n i z a t i o n s , we

with

evidence of us

a l o t of

circumstan-

change US

illegal

ana

policies

violent

be a b s o l u t e l y l e g a l

political

a s s o c i a t i o n s and

each o t h e r p o l i t i c a l l y ,

therfore

at

t h e g o v e r n m e n t , were t o

u n d e r many c o n d i t i o n s w o u l d

is a criminalization

the

each o t h e r t o i m p l e m e n t

p r o t e s t and

matters

this

o f us d i d t h e C a p i t o l

agreed w i t h

i s to " i n f l u e n c e ,

and

at

a r e a c c u s e d o f . T h e y have no d i r e c t

to prove

international

knowing

that

o f the C a p i t o l or t h a t

the conspiracy

nave no e y e - w i t n e s s e s ,

change - w h i c h

each o t h e r

you

Does t h a t e n t a i l

?

tne goals

by

with " conspiracy".

b o m b i n g s t h a t we

i n t e n d t c do

that

being-tried

reason

this.

political

practices in various

worked

a r e on

pvoft'h

independence f i g h t e r s ,

b o m b i n g s . What t h e y nave done i s t o t r y t o use

anc

want

who

to prove

other

goal

US.

Rican

wdor i t .

i n terms of

Ricans because t h e P u e r t o

a trial

are

i s "no".

the

the

the Puerto

p r o f i t e e r i n g when i n err ACTvViTOy ^n<r^tA

<lrvo?3

oonvicxed

is important

overt attempt

want t o c o n t i n u e

question

bombing

tial

on

i s another

point.

tne

you

nave t o c o n s p i r e d

that

are

f o r i n d e p e n d e n c e . They nave a l s o u s e d

has

1. .

means an

tc tne Puerto

government a c t u a l l y

just

especially

statute

Level

conspiracy.

I n your

the

oattle

under t h i s

h a v e done w h i c h

some w h i t e a n t i - i m p e r i a l i s t s

seditious 1:

they

which

r

particularly

anti-colonial against

tnat

charged

some p e o p l e ,

conspiracy'

that

Three

revolutionaries

t h e same

are

guilty

of

by

in they havirt

conspiracy,

by

a g r e e i n g t o nave a p o l i t i c a l g o a l . The way t h i s w i l l be a p p l i e d t o t h e s p e c i f i c . . . . o o m o m g s anc t o c o n v i c t us or t h e m i s t h r o u g h a c o m b i n a t i o n o f u s i n g ' a i d i n g and a b e t t i n g law

which

means t h a t

"aiding

and

renting

an

aiding combing

and

a n y t h i n g you

abetting" apartment abetting

icself.

do

- even p a s s i n g thauwas then

and

you

to support on

of the bombings could

a communique, m a n u f a c t u r i n g

u s e e by

become as

one

revolutionaries.

guilty

of the

A i l of

c o m b i n g s as

be

considered

some k i n d o f

that

i f you

could had

be

ID, considered

done t h e

Potentially,

Q:

i t couid

Part

of

the

focused

on

the upcoming

the

trial

are

.: The wail

support

very

trial.

similar

t h a t are

p u r p o s e s by

aimed

the FBI.

atmosphere i n t h e

and

to intimidate

There they

when y o u

put

from be

see

many p o l i c e c a r s tnat

p o i n t and

to attend

"

the t r i a l

i s designee to t e r r i f y

before

the t r i a l

even

hard

juries. jurors or

i s t h a . t t.r

against

Normally

jurors.

-

i n t h e US

juror.

They a r e

m a r s h a l s , anc are

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are which enables

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convoy w i t h o o i i c e s i r e n s

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Another

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t h e r e go

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begins.

first

militarization

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t o c o u r t every say

also

i n Stammheim.

w n o l e s t r a t e g y c f p o r t r a y i n g us

v e s t s . They w i l l

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trials

p r o p a g a n d a i n t h e m e d i a i s aimed a t

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a r e h e l i c o p t e r s o v e r one

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people

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This

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they

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t r i a l

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t r i a l , as

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.: As

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statutes.lt

means

t h a t we b r i n g i n t o to

t h e laws

t h e judge

a u t o m a t i c a l l y can r e s t r i c t

the t r i a l .

make i t i n t o a p o l i t i c a l

narrow c r i m i n a l political of

before,

trial.

aspects.

trial

we

itself

are being

i s going

tried

under

criminal information

t o be a b a t t l e g r o u n d f o r o u r s e l v e s

and f o r t h e g o v e r n m e n t t o n a r r o w i t i n t o

i s to portray ourselves

are

t h e amount o f p o l i t i c a l

What we p l a n t o do - a n d h o p e t o do - h a s a c o u p l e

One

w o r k i n t h e many

The t r i a l

that

as r e v o l u t i o n a r i e s ,

t h e most of different

t o show w h a t o u r h i s t o r y

p a r t s o f t h e p r o g r e s s i v e m o v e m e n t s has b e e n , t o p o r t r a y o u r s e l v e s

as

s u p p o r t e r s - o f t h e n a t i o n a l l i b e r a t i o n movements h e r e i n t h e US'and a r o u n d t h e - w o r l d And- t a - s h o w t h a t we a r e p a r t o f a p r o g r e s s i v e - m o v e m e n t i n t h i s change-

t o stop

racism

and r a c i s t a t t a c k s , t o support

l e s b i a n a n d gay o p p r e s s i o n , to

have h o u s i n g ,

The

second

thing

food,

a movement t h a t s u p p o r t s

education,

w h i c h we r e a l l y

h e a l t h care

jurors

every

encourages white

t h e c o n t r a war a g a i n s t Similarly possible as

i t s support

tactics

i t i s justified

b e c a u s e o f US c r i m e s

t h i n g s we hope t o a c c o m p l i s h able

to build

i s very

0: I t seems t h a t a r o u n d The

i n f o r m a t i o n hasn't

courtroom

with the t r i a l ,

and a t t h e

that

and t e r r o r i s t s ,

" y e s , we d i d t h e b o m b i n g s " ,

t h e w o r l d : So, t h e s e

t h e r e hasn't

been a v e r y

'

will

. ... P a r t o f t h e 1 9 7 8

beings

public

be b r o k e n w i t h t h i s

so. I t s s h o w t r i a l c h a r a c t e r

aspects

t o i t , and<_^.

a r e two or t h e

and t h a t t h e y cooperate

would

conference

ignore

b i g media

V. we

they

campaign.

, but a t the progressive trial

be d o m i n a n t l y

and t h e US g o v e r n m e n t t h a t

a c t i o n s i n t h e m e d i a . The media w i l l criminals

our m o t i v a t i o n s

and o f c o u r s e t h e k i n d o f o u t s i d e s u p p o r t

this pattern w i l l

o v e r t agreement between t h e press r e v o l u t i o n a r i e s a s human

best

movement i s a l e g i t i m a t e movement,-.

been so much d i r e c t e d a t t h e b r o a d e r

think

activities i n

important

a i l the other t r i a l s

c o m m u n i t y . Do you t h i n k

,: No, I d o n ' t

around

government

t h e government has p e r p e t r a t e d .

has many d i f f e r e n t

this

basic

t h e N a z i s a n d t h e KKK

l a w and e x p l a i n t o t h e j u r y

of resistance" ; t h a t

as

against the

f o r a p a r t h e i d . 1 So we p l a n - as

and i t s s u p p o r t

- t o b r i n g i n e x p e r t s on i n t e r n a t i o n a l

e n g a s e s i n amny

l a w , how i t v i o l a t e s

We h o p e t o e x p o s e t h e i l l e g a l that

outlaw

ways - o r a s many

organizations like

N i c a r a g u a and i n E l S a l v a d o r f o r Zionism

of a l l people

be a b l e t o show how t h e US

" y e s . J w e a r e p a r t o f a r e s i s t a n c e movement t h a t

that

are

we hope we w i l l

that to the j u r y .

for \

and an end t o

human r i g h t s

B e c a u s e some o f us h a v e f o u g h t

p a r t o f t h e r e s i s t a n c e movement. T h i s d o e s n o t mean s a y i n g

but it

international

s u p r e m a c y and w h i t e s u p r e m a c i s t

h e r e i n t h e US t o e x p o s e

the basic

and t o show a l l t h e d i f f e r e n t

d a y o f i t s own c i t i z e n s .

K u - K l u x - K i a n as p u b l i c a c t i v i s t s ,

women' s l i b e r a t i o n

i s fighting

and j o b s .

c a n c o m p r e h e n d - how t h e US v i o l a t e s

human r i g h t s

that

hope t o do i s t o e x p o s e t h e US g o v e r n m e n t a s a n

government, under i n t e r n a t i o n a l law, the

country

?

d i r e c t e d i n the

i n Puerto

R i c o was a n

would n o t p o r t r a y

the p o l i t i c a l

context

w i t h t h e F B I i n p o r t r a y i n g us o n l y

and t h a t a g r e e m e n t has b e e n p r e t t y

much f u l f i l l e d

of our as

by t h e p r e s s .

T h e r e h a s b e e n some a l t e r n a t i v e women's p r e s s ,

but o v e r a l l

And I t h i n k , t h a t w i l l

Q:

8efore

continue

movements.

some c o v e r a g e

Could

you d e s c r i b e

difficult.

liberation

movements

around

that

time a c t i v i s t s

a little

struggle against

a l l o f us were formed

i n the c r u c i b l e

ment, has j o i n e d demonstrating fight

in activities

and r i s k i n g

f o r human r i g h t s .

the democratic

right

We

lives

t o vote

for the right

demanded

that

people r i s k

t h e power o f t h e s t a t e .

b l a c k p o w e r movement t a l k i n g

about nationhood,

the p o t e n t i a l things.

capable of winning

f o r changing

t h i n g s , not just

A l l o f us h a d some r e l a t i o n s h i p

part of our p o l i t i c s .

The

Black

c h a n g e c a n be made. I t a l s o the content

o f our l i v e s

of

building

some s o l i d a r i t y

of

those

t h i n g s formed

forces of the state, intelligence build

against

particularly

fight

They a l s o

the borders

o f t h e US

o f t h e US and around

rights

of move-

were

such a s i m o l e

the right

and t o

thing

as

against

that

dissatisfied

of the society,and i n the oeginnin

i n d e p e n d e n c e movement. A l l

us i n d i r e c t

a big role

formative

o f power a n d fiow

o f u s were r i g h t

Rican

about

, but changing

s t r u g g l e as a v e r y

o f the values

f o r . Several

saw

a l s o t o l d us s o m e t h i n g

liberation

brought

to self-determination

A t t h e same t i m e when we

t h e F B I . And a s a r e s u l t we

programs i n t h e 60s. That played

the a b i l i t y

that

s t r u g g l e r a i s e d t h e issues

a n y k i n d o f r e s i s t a n c e movement - n o t j u s t

challenges

i n t h e S o u t h who

p r o t e s t i n g and b e i n g

o r g a n i z a t i o n s w i t h t h e Puerto

our p o l i t i c s .

by t h e c i v i l

l i v e s and come up b o t h

about

t h e US

r a i s e d fundamental issues

- t h e t h i n g s we

f o r a couple

a n d t o end s e g r e g a t i o n

their

racism.

to the black

liberation

you

I n t h e 6 0 s , when we b e g a n t o see a

talking

us a s a c o r r e c t s t r a t e g y f o r e n d i n g

the n a t i o n of Vietnam

to vote

by t h e f a c t

the Ku-Klux-Klan and a g a i n s t

t h a t impressed

f o r m a t i v e experience

o f t h e b l a c k masses

h a d a l l been i m p r e s s e d

d e s c r i b e why

a n d w e r e c h a l l e n g i n g t h e hegemony

and e a c h o f u s h a d b e e n i m p a c t e d

i n support

their

b i t and p r o b a b l y

i n t h e 1 9 6 0 s when t h e n a t i o n a l

t h e w o r l d were on t h e r i s e

were a l l a n t i - r a c i s t s

i n various p u b l i c

the system ?

US i m p e r i a l i s m . F o r a l l o f us t h a t has b e e n a v e r y

r e a s o n s : We

i n t h e l e s b i a n and gay a n d

had t o s t r u g g l e t o g e t o u r p e r s p e c t i v e on t h e t r i a l o u t

t o be r e a l l y

t o t a k e up a m o r e m i l i t a n t

.: I t h i n k

of

we r e a l l y

coverage,

y o u r a r r e s t s a l l o f y o u h a v e been l o n g

progressive decided

press

confrontation with the

were also t a r g e t t e d

i n c o n v i n c i n g us t h a t

by

counter

you c a n n o t

a r e v o l u t i o n a r y movement - t h a t s e r i o u s l y

government t o c a r r y o u t i t s c o l o n i a l i s t the world w i t h o u t having

T h a t i s one o f t h e r e a s o n s why we w e r e a l l c o m m i t t e d

policies

inside

a c l a n d e s t i n e component o f i t .

to build

a n armed c l a n d e s t i n e move-

ment .

Q'. A t t h e t i m e when y o u c h o s e o r w e r e f o r c e d t o go u n d e r g r o u n d wave o f o r g a n i z e d by

armed

s t r u g g l e i n t h e US had a l r e a d y

t h e Weather U n d e r g r o u n d b a s i c a l l y

experiences

a n d how

d i d you r e l a t e

i t seems l i k e

the

first

b e e n s u p p r e s s e d by C0I>fTELPR0

d i s p e r s i n g . Where y o u r e l a t i n g

t o t h e mass m o v e m e n t s ,

a l o tto their

i . e . , the Central America

and

solidarity

movement, a t t h e t i m e when you w e r e

underground ^

That i s a hard

question.

t h e r e was a m a s s i v e a n t i - w a r many

First

of a l l , i t i s true that during

movement t h e r e s i s t a n c e movement was v e r y

forms o f r e s i s t a n c e . There were o t h e r

Underground. I t i s also s t r u g g l e and w i t h d r e w

armed groups as w e l l ,

t r u e t h a t t h e Weather Underground

from

support

f o rnational liberation

H o w e v e r , t h e - B l a c k : L i b e r a t i o n Army ( B L A ) c o n t i n u e d T h e FALN ( F u e r z a s A r m a d a s de L i b e r a c i o n movement c o n t i n u e d

National)

committed

Central Within and

to resisting

t h e movement

and s t o p p i n g

who o n l y

differentiates

up i n t o

and t h a t both

us from

w a n t t o e d u c a t e p e o p l e a b o u t US

many

towards C e n t r a l

h a s become m o r e s y m p a t h e t i c f o r u s now t h a n

politics.

not break

much

was

levels.

We

makes us a p a r t o f t h e

sectors

o f t h e movement.

to stop

US w a r

crimes

That sector of the C e n t r a l

t h e law o r use m i l i t a n t

forms o f s t r u g g l e

America a r e c o n t i n u i n g , t h e more

t o us and o u r c o m m i t m e n t t o r e s i s t . T h e r e i s

t h e r e was a t t h e p o i n t w h e n we w e r e s t i l l

underground.

militant

more

I think

f o r people,

they

s t r u g g l e w i t h u s . We h a v e more o f a r e l a t i o n s h i p t o some o f t h e mass m o v e m e n t s now.

Whenever y o u have a s e r i e s o f a r r e s t s as s e r i o u s organizations strategy

i n this

country,

and y o u r t a c t i c s .

strategic are

t h e 80s.

independence

on many d i f f e r e n t

p a r t o f t h a t i s b e c a u s e we a r e i n p r i s o n now, we a r e more a c c e s s i b l e can

i n armed

s t r u g g l e s i n the mid-70s.

t h e r e a r e p e o p l e who w a n t t o t r y t o i n t e r v e n e

Because t h e g o v e r n m e n t ' s p o l i c i e s

support

engaging

o f t h e P u e r t o Rican

US w a r c r i m e s ,

A m e r i c a movement b e l i e v s t h a t y o u s h o u l d

sector

t h e Weather

t o f u n c t i o n . And one o f t h e t h i n g s t h a t i n f l u e n c e d us v e r y

A m e r i c a movement and a l s o

other

stopped

when

broad and encompassec

not just

to function right

t h a t we w e r e a l w a y s e n g a g e d i n r e v o l u t i o n a r y s o l i d a r i t y are

the s i x t i e s

errors

ÂŁ7he

never give

You c a n ' t

different

t o r e s i s t ^ "-^>LJv.

t h a t a l l o f you have b e e n v e r y

. i : F o r t h o s e o f us i n t h i s

being

s o c i e t y have - b e i n g

f o r m s o f o u r own o p p r e s s i o n .

with other

oppressed

Our r e s p o n s e j t o

o f t h e women's l i b e r a t i o n

our

own e q u a l i t y and f r e e d o m and t h e r i g h t

i s why t h e r e c a n n e v e r or" a r e v o l u t i o n a r

itself.

through

forced

that oppression to fighting

participate

being

was t o i d e n t i f y liberation.

out not j u s t

4

t h e hope o f

i n this society, but also

That i s such a r e v o l u t i o n a r y concept, which

be a s u ssttaaiinneedd, women' b be erraatt ii qq nn movement o u t s i d e w o m e n ' Ss/^CiL i

"iriiTDn

denigrated

to i n t e r n a l i z e

f o r o u r own

movement had h e l d

to fully

the experiences

of violence,

and m o r e , a n d more b e i n g

us t h e b e g i n n i n g s

context

t o by t h a t ?

p e o p l e and t o commit o u r s e l v e s

the whole concept o f l i b e r a t i o n

t o say f o r a l l o f us w h a t

much i n f l u e n c e d by t h e women's

t a r g e t t e d by a l l k i n d s

For

think

your

f

c a s e who a r e women, we a l l w e n t

t r e a t e d as s e c o n d - c l a s s c i t i z e n s ,

certain

both

resistanc

s a y i t was a l l t a c t i c a l e r r o r s . T h e r e have,to-"De

movement. Whta e x a c t l y do y o u r e f e r

t h a t women i n t h i s

You h a v e t o e v a l u a t e

t h i n g s . But I t h i n k i t i s safe

up i s o u r a b i l i t y

Q: You h a v e s a i d e a r l i e r liberation

y o u have t o r e e v a l u a t e .

clandestine

s i x o f us a r e n o t p a r t o f o n e r e v o l u t i o n a r y o r g a n i z a t i o n , a n d we

a l l r e t h i n k i n g many

we w i l l

as o u r s and t h e o t e h r

I

the , i

JL,.

c h a t a r e pare o f what i t w i l l win

Q:

their

liberation,

I would

like

mean f o r women

i s fundamental

to win their

t o changing

t o come back t o t h a t .

and f o r l e s b i a n s

t h e values t h i s society

L i n d a and you b o t h

Do y o u s e e a n y c o n t r a d i c t i o n s f o r y o u r s e l v e s

liberation

i s constructed

h a v e been o u t s p o k e n

i n w o r k i n g w i t h a mixed

to) on.

lesbians.

anti-imperialist

group ?

L i n d a and I , and M a r i l y n organizations,

a n d S u s a n , h a v e a l l been p a r t o f s e p a r a t e women's

b u t n e v e r s e p a r a t i s t . T h e d i f f e r e n c e i s t h a t t h e s e p a r a t i s t women's

movement and t h e s e p a r a t i s t l e s b i a n s is

- they

define

because I l o o k

women a s t h e i r in

t o work w i t h s e p a r a t i s t groups, b u t only

a t the national l i b e r a t i o n

allies

a n d men o f a n y n a t i o n s

t h e n e e d f o r women

struggles

as t h e i r

t o have c a u c u s e s , g r o u p s ,

but

is.not just

t o me i t i s a l s o

a different

Q:

society

I n Europe

part of devloping f r o m what w o u l d

level,

a little

o f domestic opposition

and m i l i t a r y

US a s t h e h e g e m o n i c i m p e r i a l i s t

cultural

called

black

black

felt

by t h e o p p r e s s e d

succesful

conditions Even

class.

socialist

"war on d r u g s " ,

nation

what t h e

T h e Reagan e r a h a s had a

I t h a s been f e l t

nations'

i n turning everything

" new s p e a k " - t o make t h i n g s

care.

to reinstitute

showed

a l l but the ruling

build-

i n every

class

c o m m u n i t i e s . The l e v e l o f t h e d r u g war, h a s r e a l l y

been

p e o p l e and L a t i n A m e r i c a n p e o p l e , P u e r t o R i c a n and M e x i c a n p e o p l e .

h a v e been v e r y

has c r e a t e d medical

power. The a t t a c k on t h e f i r s t

g e n o c i d e was r a i s e d . The s o - c a l l e d

a war a g a i n s t they

particularly

domestically

by a n u n p r e c e d e n t e d

hemisphere - Grenada -

i t i s being

and

i n d u s t r i e s . A l l i n an a t t e m p t

p o s i t i o n o n s e l f - d e t e r m i n a t i o n was.

domesticall;

t o the system ?

internationally

capabilities

And

that.

b i t a b o u t what has changed

up o f t h e m i l i t a r y

i m p a c t on p r o b a b l y

they

women's

s e e n w h a t t h e R e a g a n a d m i n i s t r a t i o n h a s done o n a n

d o m i n a t i o n and e x p l o i t a t i o n ,

and

a separate

create

by i n c r e a s e d

desvastating

strongly

a r e v o l u t i o n a r y process which a t t h e end w i l l

b u t maybe y o u c a n t a l k

Reagan a d m i n i s t r a t i o n ' s

very

often,

e x i s t i f we d i d n ' t h a v e

how t h o s e c h a n g e s e f f e c t e d a n y k i n d

this

look a t only

are very

were c h a r a c t e r i z e d

in

limited

Being part o f

t o work w i t h , which

.: The p o l i c i e s o f t h e Regan a d m i n s i t r a t i o n b o t h

the

they

separate organizations.

t h a t men a r e h a r d

, p e o p l e have m o s t l y

international and

a reflection

a s my a l l y ;

to create

and male

on a v e r y

e n e m i e s . We b e l i e v e

a u t o n o m o u s ' women's g r o u p s o r women's c a u c u s e s o r t r y i n g program

a n a l y s i s o f who t h e enemy

p a t r i a r c h y and men a s t h e enemy, a s o p p o s e d t o i m p e r i a l i s m

s u p r e m a c y . I have been a b l e basis,

movement have a d i f f e r e n t

o f what t h e y

really

Orwell

a r e . The s t a t e

t h a t l e a v e s p e o p l e h o m e l e s s , w h e r e t h e r e a r e no s o c i a l p r o g r a m s o r

the small

h a s b e e n c u t and w i p e d

be t h e o p p o s i t e

around - i t i s what George

level

o f reforms

t h a t people gained

o u t and b a s i c a l l y t h e s t a t e s a i d

i n the l a t e

" e v e r y one. f o r

'ftem

60s and 70s

scJjf?".

This

\

0

has

taken

place

women. I degree

t h e m a j o r e x p e n s e o£

t h i n k t h a t the

t h a t i s based

minds" . This „ 4

at

Reagan e r a

on

i s what

black

has

been v e r y

internal

they

enemy. So

have l e a r n e d

now,

from

p o a r and divert

nml

a t t e n t i o n from

the

real

Q:

A l l of

and

internationally.

has

on

S:

question

the

The

you

t h a t are

struggle

-

there

lmperialist

sector

relationship

one

of

to the

center

of

the

contradictions.

I t i s also

e m p i r e t h a t has

key

to i t s

the T h i r d

there

ideology the

in this

s t r u g g l e of

national

a

the

in a

class,

again

taken

of

the

domination

very

an

, and

also

the

there

by

organized

lln'j

and

the

create

internal

mrr

rtrnipi—they,

could

&-L(ouj

are to

to cover

up

incr-eiLse

Tk£rv\

c o l o n i a l n a t i o n , both you

domestica

s p e c i f y what e f f e c t s t h a t

, because t h e r e are

same l a n d

i s no

being

one

s y s t e m . So

i t has

an

got

been a n a l y t i c a l l y

The

As

form

the

p o l i c e , and

the

center

the

black r o l e of

tool

there

black

are

and

inter-

our

been u n t i l

recently

elements of - the

oppressed one

take

the

this

p e o p l e and

because

federal state,

- is primarily

the

been

from

R e a g a n r e g i m e have e n t r e n c h e d a

t h a t i s at the

the

base of

internal

but

who

genocide against

communities the

that.

an

their in

the oppressed

there i s going

occupying

o f an

f o r c e by

i t is definitely

the and

to

be

under-

the

Y o r k w h e r e t h e r e has

A f r i c a n A m e r i c a n s . Now

facis

i t is

a l s o are

t h e r e - i s a beginning

p o l i c e , as

But

because o f

colonies

t h e r e i s a r e a c t i o n and

p e o p l e and

s t a t e of d e v e l o p m e n t ,

the

f o r the d e s t r u c t i o n of

c o n t r o l i n t h a t c o m m u n i t y , f.£, i n New

different

antiin

o f w h a t has

peoples i n t o

Because t h e

such a strong advance,

homogenous

the

d i f f e r e n c e b e t w e e n us

t h a t i s the most dynamic, both

class.

so

movements i n s i d e o f

t h a t may

e i g h t years of

example i n t h e

m o v e m e n t , and

i s no

n a t i o n a l s t r u g g l e s achieve s e l f - d e t e r m i n a t i o n

economic system

the working

base, there

t h e most i n t e n s e

because

different

internal

grown up..matured

i n the

b e c a u s e i t i s members o f

and

large

the h e a r t s

to t r y to

s u p r e m a c y and

national liberation

internal colonies,

and

inn

e m p i r e and

been d e f i n e d ,

of

i n t e r n a l colonies and

"winning

become p a r t o f

enemy, i v

empire i s t h a t

grafted together

country

l o t of opposition

noc

an

i n this country.

r e a c t i o n . For

to maintain

that

as

government w i t h i n

b r o k e n up.

part of

p o o r p e o p l e has

standing

be

character

most m i l i t a n t

more of a

being

f o r us

are

people

, the empire w i l l

nnrmy.li

what i s t h e

c h a n g e , m a s s i v e change - w h a t e v e r

World

but to a

?

working

imperialist

it

i s an

specify

i n a d d i t i o n t o us

Because

and

h a v e been s u e c e s f u l t o d i v i d e

ourselves

I t h i n k t h a t i s t h e most c r i t i c a l

country.

call

people

g o v e r n m e n t r i s c r e a t i n g enemies i n o r d e r

a b o u t t h e US

advances

colonies.

domestically,

the questions

the concept o f white

t h e movement has

European c o u n t e r p a r t s , the

you

by one

i s no

The

and

talking

t h e US

held

shaped

like

internal

i s t h e enemy and

Could

about

the

ctoa4..

racism

who

are

main'thing

held

\.hw

s t r u g g l e i n t h e US

colonies

nally

w the

of

s t a t e has

they

class white

Hade,

p e o p l e b i • tme. p a r t o f

npprririfri

devastating

Vietnam -

anti-imperialists

£_A<2_

enemy. B l a c k

working

a l e v e l of c o n s o l i d a t i o n o f what they

t h e s t r u g g l e , t o d i v i d e t h e p e o p l e . The an

p e o p l e and

US been

the o p p o s i t i o n

emerging

again.

is

I

think

and

t h e 90s

with

some k i n d

on. r a c i s m and by

a r e g o i n g t o be a b o u t

i n every major

i s j u s t one

development, can

begin

-

people

oppressed

America

i t i s based

Now,

that

that|if

and

of

strategies t o be a n y

motivated from

that

i s g o i n g on

J9% j o f t h e l a n d

nuctea

>wer t h a t

that

very US

r e c o g n i z e P u e r t o R i c o as i n that

r e g i o n . And

now,

that

as

and

option

Rico

right

struggle

o f t h e i n l a n d . The

kind

and

of m i l i t a r y

whether

in

t h e m o s t p o s i t i v e way

at

t h e US

l e f t i s that

plebiscite,

o f the Caribbean those nations

and

as

US

o p e r a t i o n i n any

i s u n c l e a r . But

Puerto

US

b a s e s . I t i s US a t t h e moment i s

namely t o c o v e r

their Caribbean

p a r t of t h e s t r u g g l e t h a t i s

issuaand

against the

they don't

N a v a l Base i n P u e r t o R i c o part o f C e n t r a l America.

t h e Panama C a n a l . T h e r e i s a l o t o f m o t i o n

or not the l i b e r a t i o n

we

because t h e

continue to a g i t a t e

some p r e s s u r e on t a h t

the Roosevelt

briefly

the Central

because Puerto Rico i s a l s o v e r y p r o f i t a b l e .

I t i s from

i n regard to loosing now,

feels

a false

very

i t i s g o i n g on w i t h

through the m i l i t a r y

the l i f e

people

l o n g as

i n the next period

l a u n c h any

only

o f change

f o r the independence of

t h e y have t o i n c l u d e P u e r t o R i c o ,

i n Puerto Rico

part

on P u e r t o R i c o , t h e US

important m i l i t a r i l y .

will

new

f o r us as a n t i - i m p e r i a l i s t s

to struggle

right

dominates

the Puerto Rican

and

say

i n t h e a u L j i -uÂŤe-a^cajt*anal c o m m u n i t y . B e c a u s e t h e C e n t r a l A m e r i c a n a n d

deal with

a

the

tracks

hold

that.

opinions

kind

t o f o r c e on

US's

outrage". of

and

trying

going-on

been a

in protest

t h e P u e r t o R i c a n movement. I w o u l d

c o l o n y o f t h e US,

movement, t o s a y

occupies

and

nations

people

i s not n e c e s s a r i l y

there i s going

t o be l o c a t e d

t h e r e has

i t t h e "day

downtown M a n h a t t a n

p r o c e s s whereby new

i t i s our a b s o l u t e r e s p o n s i b i l i t y

solidarity

military

And

Y o r k . They c a l l e d

o f development.

of

been a d i r e c t

is a struggle

government

that

conditions

peoples.

that

Rico." T h a t

social

been a s e r i e s o f m u r d e r s o f b l a c k

occupied

or reformist - i t i s going

P u e r t o R i c o has

belijye

who

believe

There are o t h e r examples i n terms that

t h a t comes f r o m t h e f a c t

i n New

but i t i s part of a p o l i t i c a l

t o emerge. I c e r t a i n l y

o f mass s t r u g g l e a r o u n d

center i n the l a s t period.

example of the k i n d

revolutionary

of

urban

by t h e b l a c k c o m m u n i t y t o t h a t

T h e r e were s e v e r a l thousand That

consciousness

n a t i o n a l o p p r e s s i o n . T h e r e has

w h i t e people

response

of p o l i t i c a l

that kind

want-to

I t i s also that

the

I t is their

around

Puerto

movement i s g o i n g t o be a b l e t o use i t

what i s a b s o l u t e l y

t h e i n d e p e n d e n c e movement c a n n o t

i m p o r t a n t f o r anybody

be d e s t r o y e d by

the

US.

looking

Q: W h a t a r e t h e c o n d i t i o n s u n d e r w h i c h y o u a r e b e i n g been'and

i s being

isolation

.: When we f i r s t

used a g a i n s t

you

here

s p e c i a l h a n d l i n g w h i c h meant t h a t we w e r e

were

never allowed

and w h e n e v e r we l e f t

and

i n legal

special

group w i t h i n

r u m o r s among in

a white

tried

about

the s t a f f

and t r i e d

from

from

t h e judge

that

handles

security

able

of

t h e population gets

t o g e t t h e judge

at the request

of a

f o r p p s . They

spread

this

t o order

One t h i n g

I think

was i n f a c t

i n conditions nottoo

o u t s i d e . A t t h e end o f

b e c o m i n g c r u e l and u n u s u a l

the c r i t i c a l

thing

i n t e r m s o f t h e DC J a i l

i s t o what extent prisons

people as w e l l . f I a l s o j p e n d ^ j w o

of

and i n j a i l s

large c i t i e s

p r i s o n e r s where

basically

tremendous overcrowding,

restrictive

visiting;

for

people

you

see i n the school

in

this

that

basically

t o understand

s o c i e t y which

people.

the c o n d i t i o n s are very

F o r many

that

drugs which

primarily

people,

f o r many y o u n g p e o p l e

go a l o n g

part of this

with i t ,

A l m o s t a l l o f y o u h a v e been h e l d

: Without before

i tis like

cycle, of l i f e

t o t h e c o n d i t i o n s i n DC

programs, e s s e n t i a l l y

Jail:

no l e g a l

facilities-

i s important

p e o p l e and e s p e c i a l l y p o o r T h i r d from

World

t h e A f r i c a n American community

going

from

and u n e m p l o y m e n t a n d t o o

one i n s t i t u t i o n

to the other

-

i n t h e US.

i n isolation

programme t h e s t a t e s e c u r i t y

w h i c h seems t o be a p a r t o f t h e s p e c i a l

forces are using

a g a i n s t pps i n t h e US ,

f o r example .

exceptions

we g o t h e r e .

had a l a r g e p e r c e n t a g e o f

c a u g h t up i n t h e c y c l e o f p o v e r t y

Q:

i n t h e FRG

i n a series

run-down conditions.-JUui I L l i i u l i - i t

d e a l w i t h poor

is just

but a l s o

years

peopie

i n many ways i t c o r r e s p o n d s t o t h e same k i n d o f c o n d i t i o n s

it

counterinsurgency

i nthe

s y s t e m s , i n t h e s o c i a l w e l f a r e s y s t e m s , i n any o f t h e i n s t i t u t i o n s

y o u see coming i n here,

often

similar

no e d u c a t i o n a l

horrible,

that also

and o u r

African-American

f o r o t h e r T h i r d World

black

punishment.

i s j u s t as much a s t h e r e s t

, but certainly

i n other

After

some c h a n g e s i n o u r

a r e c o n c e n t r a t i o n camps a n d w a r e h o u s e s f o r p a r t i c u l a r i l y

jails

to isolat<

t h a t was p a r t o f t h e s p e c i a l

t o go o u t s i d e f o r t w o h o u r s a week w h i c h here.

tring

p e o p l e who a r e h e r e .

h a v e been h e l d

c o n d i t i o n s f o r people i n Europe t o u n d e r s t a n d

county

i n leg irons

a mass m o b i l i z a t i o n and i n t h e c o u r t s .

y e a r we a c t u a l l y

that

call

t h e s i x o f us w e r e i n v o l v e d

f o r a y e a r was t h a t we w e r e n e v e r a l l o w e d

decided

a r e now a l l o w e d

US r e a l l y

b l o c k we were b o t h

was done d i r e c t l y

the bulk of the population here.

We

current

Service

c o n d i t i o n s through

For most o f t h e past

handlingâ&#x20AC;&#x17E;and c o n t i n u e d 'the y e a r

our c e l l

group r a t h e r t h a n w i t h a r e v o l u t i o n a r y group t h e r b y

those

*>.

i n o u r c e l l s 23 h o u r s a d a y . We

to get to the prisoners that

s i x m o n t h s we w e r e a c t u a l l y

dissimilar

locked

the bulk of the population, the African-American

to fight

conditions.

C e n t e r we w e r e h e l d a t wha.t t h e y

meetings. T h i s

t h e US M a r s h a l l

supremacist

us f u r t h e r We

including

And how h a s

p r i s o n e r s . We h a d a l l o u r c o n v e r s a t i o n s a n d

correspondence monitored handcuffs,

i n t h e DC J a i l .

9

g o t h e r e a t t h e DC D e t e n t i o n

t o go o u t w i t h o t h e r

held

a l l o f us i n f a c t

And a g a i n

Like a l o t of the things that

have

i t always gets

spent

done

long

periods of time i n i s o l a t i o n

under t h e g u i s e

h a p p e n w i t h pps i n s i d e p r i s o n s , t h e y

of security take

precautions.

techniques

that

intentionally guards

use male guards;

to watch

they

used c a m e r a s t h a t w e r e d e s i g n e d

t h e women i n t h e s h o w e r , t o a f f o r d

f o r Susan Rosenberg and A l e j a n d r i n a T o r r e s rectal

and v a g i n a l

no p r i v a c y

to allow

i n the c e l l s ,

the and

t o p h y s i c a l l y a b u s e them - d o i n g

s e a r c h e s . The s t a t e f e e l s p a r t i c u l a r l y

threatened

\ then

forced

when women

decide

t h e i r s t r e n g t h t o the s t r u g g l e and so-they have a l s o a p a r t i c u l a r

part of t h e i r

Q: T h e US g o v e r n m e n t a c t u a l l y c l a i m s there

where t h e p p s a n d pows come f r o m

i n t h e US c o n t e x t

A.

: I n t h e US

relationship in

h e l d i n US

politically

p r i s o n s . C o u l d you

and what t h e trem

pow r e l a t e s

?

t h e n a t i o n a l s t r u g g l e and p o l i t i c a l

have h i s t o r i c a l l y

t h e US as s l a v e s

- there

national

identity

letters,

not w i t h a small

s t r u g g l e has d e v e l o p e d

developed

largely i n

i s some f l u i d i t y

African people

now how A f r i c a n A m e r i c a n s c a l l

" b " . New A f r i c a n s a l s o

Similarily eradicated, as

was u s e d w i t h

And

are

t h a t has

i s a great m e l t i n g l a r g e oppressed

populations

war i n 1989 a n d a p p r o x i m a t e l y from

the actual country

P u e r t o R i c o was

40% o f the Puerto

human r i g h t s , f o r basic

basic

M e x i c o and a f o r c e d

democratic

Black

Rican

t r e a t y . There haev s u f f e r

like

the black struggle

t o be won - t h o s e movements have o f t e n t a k e n

their civil realizt h e form

movements w i t h a demand f o r s e l f - d e t e r m i n a t i o n i n w h a t -

t h a t c a n b e . So as p e o p l e h a v e s t r u g g l e d

Panther

claimed

And i n many c a s e s a s

w i t h a view towards a s s i m i l a t i o n , b u t through

national liberation

and l i b e r a t i o n ,

have d e v e l o p e d

rights.

access - sometimes f o r i n s t a n c e ,

was n o t g o i n g

largely

150 y e a r s a g o

they

against

have e n c o u n t e r e d within

organizations which e x p l i c i t l y

i n j u s t i c e and f o r a v i e w o f t h e s t a t e and i n

are t r y i n g

P a r t ; / ( B P ? ) when t h e BPP was r e p r e s s e d

\

encountering

t h o s e movements, t h e r e , a t t o d e v e l o p an a b i l i t y

wage a r m e d s t r u g g l e . T h e B l a c k L i b e r a t i o n Army ( B L A ) was o n e t h a t l a r g e l y the

colonyj

o f P u e r t o R i c o t o t h e c i t i e s o f t h e US

a war a g a i n s t

s t a t e p e o p l e g e t a r r e s t e d and become p p s . Now

times,

under

M e x i c a n p e o p l e i n t h e US. So p e o p l e i n t h o s e p o p u l a t i o n s

t h a t that r e a l l y

form

to struggle i n t h i s ^country.

o f Mexico t h r o u g h

movement, s t a r t i n g

self-determination the

half

has d e v e l o p e d

explicit

pot i nthe

w h i c h was c o n q u e r e d a n d t h a t was

as p a r t o f what i s c a l l e d i t s "Western expansion"

denial of basic

rights

ver

has i m m i g r a t e d

some 20 m i l l i o n

struggle

American p o p u l a t i o n

but i t has continued

t h e Northern

from

of

was a N a t i v e

M e x i c o - t h e US

took

capita!

conditions.

p a r t o f an e x p a n s i o n i s t

population

ing

there

own

t r y t o g i v e a small sense o f a t r a n s -

i n t h e US. I t i s n o t t r u e t h a t t h e r e i s a dominant n a t i o n

"Slack"

their

where c e r t a i n i n d i v i d u a l s can advance, b u t t h e b u l k o f t h e n a t i o n s a r e k e p t semi-colonial

that

oppressed n a t i o n s . A f r i c a n s were b r o u g h t t o

a s A f r i c a n A m e r i c a n s . C e r t a i n l y , t h e word

US. T h e r e b a s i c a l l y s t i l l

or

women'pps.

although

t o n a t i o n a l movements, and by n a t i o n a l movements I mean t h e f a c t

t h e US t h e r e

ported

t o t r y t o b r e a k down t h o s e

t h a t i t d o e s n o t h o l d a n y pps a t a l l -

a r e c u r r e n t l y a r o u n d 200 pps and pows b e i n g

eyplain to

plan designed

developed

by t h e F B I . Some o f t h e

to from

people

i n t h e BPP

ground

resistance. Similarily

zations de

felt

t h e o n l y way t h e y w e r e g o i n g

have d e v e l o p e d

within

the s t r u g g l e

on t h e i s l a n d

and h e r e

L i b e r a c i o n N a t i o n a l ) has been most c f c a . r l y

the

M a c h e t e r o s who a r e r o o t e d on t h e i s l a n d

had

s e v e r a l people

American

t o s u r v i v e was t o f o r m an u n d e r - i

o f Puerto

inside

Rico, c l a n d e s t i n e o r g a n i -

t h e US. The FALN ( F u e r z a s A r m a d a s

developed,

i n Puerto

and i n t h e l a s t

Rico

have d e v e l o p e d .

clandestine

to build

our a n t i - i m p e r i a l i s t resistance

but passive

2 o f t h e Geneva C o n v e n t i o n s

pows'.

Q:

Do t h e US c o u r t s r e c o g n i z e

t h e US r e f u s e t o a p p l y recognized

US c o l o n y ,

colonial clear back

international

standards,

fighters

struggle

international recognized

by

c o n v e n t i o n s . They c l a i m stafci

fighters.

Internationally

combatant

of Assata

from Puerto

Rico,

Shakur. A s s a t a ,

t h e F B I and t h e m e d i a as a " b l o o d she was g r a n t e d

increasingly

political

t o be r e c o g n i z e d

refused

anti-

tried

to e x t r a d i t e him

he was a pp i n t h e US, t h a t he was

to extradite

asylum .Another

a l e a d i n g member thirsty

as

people

t h e y a r e . T h i s was made .most

h i m t o t h e US and r e l e a s e d

b l o w t o t h a t s t r a t e g y was t h e

o f t h e BLA, had been c h a r a c t e r i z e d

cop k i l l e r " .

A f t e r her l i b e r a t i o n

a s y l u m i n Cuba a n d has s i n c e g a i n e d

movements t h e m s e l v e s

.: T h a t v a r i e s b e c a u s e a g a i n both

that

i t as a

i t a s a US c o l o n y and t h e r f o r e

and i n t h e US as a r e s p e c t e d s p o k e s p e r s o n

B u t do t h e s e

P u e r t o R i c o as t h e c l e a r l y

i n M e x i c o a n d t h e US

t o Cuba w h e r e h e was g i v e n p o l i t i c a l

nationally

including

f r o m t h a t movement a r e n o t g o i n g

t o t h e US a s a c r i m i n a l . M e x i c o d e c i d e d

prison

the

international

under

status ?

when W i l l i a m M o r a l e s was c a p t u r e d

â&#x20AC;˘liberation

is

that

and o t h e r

b u t t h e US c o u r t s r e f u s e t o r e c o g n i z e

freedom

a captured

A

themselves

who a r e

from t h e

e x a m p l e . The w o r l d c o m m u n i t y a n d t h e U n i t e d N a t i o n s r e c o g n i z e

who a r e f r e e d o m

Q:

actions against the m i l i t a r y

..: No, t h e c o u r t s r e f u s e t o - a l t h o u g h i t h a s b e e n c h a l l e n g e d many t i m e s , t h e c o u r t s

most

by

disobedience

c o m b a t a n t s and a r e p r i s o n e r s o f a l i b e r a t i o n

as

him

civil

n a t i o n s who a r e w a g i n g armed s t r u g g l e c o n s i d e r

Protocol

in

some as p a r t o f an armed

i n t h e p r i s o n s i n t h e US. Now, we a l l a r e o b v i o u s l y p p s , b u t t h e p e o p l e

t o be c a p t u r e d

A.

have

r e s i s t a n c e . And t h e n t h e r e a r e o t h e r w h i t e N o r t h A m e r i c a n s who h a v e b e e n

i n militant,

oppressed law

They

I n d i a n Movement ( A I M ) a r e i n t h e p r i s o n s a s p p s . And t h e r e a r e a l s o w h i t e

movement and h a v e f o u g h t i n v a r i o u s ways a g a i n s t t h e s t a t e ,

also

few y e a r s

who L\&ve been a r r e s t e d a n d become pps i n t h e US. P e o p l e f r o m t h e

N o r t h A m e r i c a n s s u c h as o u r s e l v e s who have t r i e d

involved

1

there are d i f f e r e n t

recognition

f o r t h e "Black l i b e r a t i o n

c l a i m y o u as t h e i r

political

realities

from inter-

struggle.

prisoners ?

t h a t are going

on - a n d

this

t h e s t r e n g t h and t h e w e a k n e s s o f t h e pp/pow movement i n t h e US, b u t a l s o o f

social

struggle

i n t h e US i n g e n e r a l . I t h i n k

m e n t o f pps i n P u e r t o

Rico,

that

t h e r e i s a very i m p l i c i t

f o r e x a m p l e i n t h e c a s e o f F i l i b e r t o Ojeda R i o s

embrace-

who i s

/I

u>

I II

admittedly

one

been-held He

was

he

and

one

then brought him

and

t o Puerto

i n 1985.

An

Rico

agent

that

a Puerto

he

was

shot

jury.

The

that Filiberto

d i d have a r i g h t

said

i n a very

stopped from I

on

link

there,

has

struggle.

i t was

What k i n d

just

in earlier

raising

-

some pps

there are

- i n t h e US

s u p p o r t and nationally

movement and

and

say

His

and

and

by

o t h e r pp

c a s e has

some o v e r

pps

and

point

pows have s u p p o r t w i t h i n i n the

t h e comrades t h a t were a r r e s t e d as

the Puerto last

two

or

levels

has

the

state

premise

of some

exceptions

progressive

true

f o r the N a t i v e struggle

more interAmerican

and

i n d e p e n d e n c e move-

three years.

a g r o u p k n o w n as

of

do.

probably

i s probably

Rican

and

to

the

t h a n o t h e r s - p r o b a b l y most

arching significance

ongoing

w h o l e l o t 'of

t h e p o i n t of view

He

not

?

to begin from

that

and

been an

very d i f f i c u l t

t h e r e i s not a

and

you."

true,

were

i n t h e b e g i n n i n g . There a r e

i n t h e US,

and

people

a r e very shared,

10 y e a r s

b e g u n t o become m o r e b r o a d

links

t h e c o n d i t i o n s and

from

fact

support

i t is s t i l l

t h e case o f L e o n a r d P e l t i e r .

t h a n any

just

between the v a r i o u s

having

the

o r g a n i z i n g i n armed

those

so

goals

to

Juan w i t h o u t being

c o u n t r y we

with

developed

overall are

front

the

been h i s t o r i c a l l y

make t h a t

i n t h e US

are j u s t

b a s e d on

o r so i t has b e e n b o t h a s y m b o l i c />\OVCw? rvff o r the Native American

Rican

i t has

Ojeda Rios

familiar with

We

himself in

these are not

charged

years

that

Rico,

spoke t o F i l i b e r t o

pows r e c e i v e a t t h i s

a r e more w e l l - k n o w n

f o r the last

point

Puerto

who

recognition as w e l l .

those e f f o r t s

not

, the p o l i t i c a l

t h e e x i s t e n c e o f pps

are

has

as i t i s i s d e f i n e d l a r g e l y

come f r o m . I w o u l d

and

- and

forge the l i n k s

there i s not a l o t of conciousness.

conciusness

m e n t and

pps

i t was

r e p r e s e n t our

the s t r u g g l e

FBI

of a l l the charges r e l a t e d

t o him

people

trial for.

i n Puerto

t h e s t r e e t s o f San

c o n d i t i o n s o f c a p t u r e can

f o r pps

establishing

rallying

I think

o f o u t s i d e s u p p o r t do

support

with

c a p t u r e t o t r y and

and

t h e movements we

people

walk

had

a g a i n s t the a t t a c k

defended

legalities,

s a y i n g "you

developed

trial

basically

He

weapons a t t a c k e d h i s home

himself. I recently

cannot

a weakness as

Because c e r t a i n l y

the i s o l a t i o n

support,

The

he

b e e n made, e s p e c i a l l y

I think

The

of

not

since people's

course

of

and

trial.

w e n t on

his life

w e n t on

Filiberto

somebody c o m i n g up

Here'not o r g a n i c a l l y

process

Q:

b l o c k and

that

never

p u t on

f o r a s h o o t - o u t when t h e

h i s home and

n o t b a s e d on

t o defend

he

was

bazooka a u t o m a t i c

among w h i t e N o r t h A m e r i c a n movements t h a t

struggle.

of

h u m b l e way

was

t h e i n d e p e n d e n c e movement - and

think

the

every

clearly

which

trial

the FBI

jury acquitted

verdict

recently

s h o o t - o u t . He

i t out w i t h

s h o o t - o u t . The

he

p u t on

defended

wounded i n t h a t

had

Rican

and

FBI SWAT t e a m w i t h

h i s w i f e w e r e t h e r e . He

FBI

admitted of

t h e l e a d e r s o f t h e M a c h e t e r o s . He

f o r s e v e r a l y e a r s on c h a r g e s i n t h e US

captured and

of

Filiberto

the Puerto

Rican

/ ] 4 Independence

16

and

expropriation

of

importance

the

to

the

d i s c u s s i o n s about movement and pps

and

the

struggeling

But

fromthe point

status

there

for

the

the

that

I don't of

the

and

early

their of

own

the of

you

who

they

fact

reformist

itself

Q:

In

fight

could

i s not

Any

political sitting or

of

set

up

also

of

of

i n the

to

i n the

in

then, l e t ' s

a

organized,

that

support

i t i s not

with in

the

and

community

h a v e been

be

understood developed

led

p e o p l e and

is

that

i n the

60s

just

really

revolutionary

"Black A r c h i t e c t s "

people's s t r u g g l e And

you

i f you

thing

you

get

on

with

any

there w i l l there that

of

is

that

some o f

know, t h a t was

I t was

leaders of

the

very clear

that

self-directed be

class,

is incipient there,

directed

at

this

point,

and

the

of

I just

to

very US

the

think

that could therefore

have

through

claiming

support.

partial!

major,

organization

a more a c t i v e

i s a base o f

part

d e s t r o y a movement

the

forms

perpetuate

people m i d d l e

can

had

d o n ' t have

cannot even

other

p r o g r a m m e s , you . You

?

t h r o u g h c o o p e r a t i o n . E v e n u n d e r R e a g a n you

d i r e c t i o n and

base of

by

B l a c k c o m m u n i t y was

face i t - the

t o &Mew b l a c k p e o p l e any

that

happen

black

d e s t r o y e d . Not

that

rights organizations.

struggle. I think

independence

a wrong impression

for destruction.

R o n a l d Reagan n e v e r met

going

the

jails

p r o g r a m t h a t was

s o c i a l advancements

black c i v i l

of

t h e y have been i n v o l v e d

state

w h a t has

organization

targetted

partially

the

what w i l l

papers - groups l i k e

university

come w i t h

extreme

coming

been r e c o g n i z e d

i s that

structure

read FBI

kind

the

be

people that

mobilized

i t c a n n o t make

felt.

the

FRG

against

t h e m s e l v e s as as

not

i s much more o f

, but.it

the

c a n n o t r e a c h a mass o f

You

and

that

have s t r u g g l e d

there

because

somewhat s u c c e s f u l l y

back and

e a s i l y . And

perks t h a t

the

was

for

the

view of

were m i l i t a n t s were c o o p t e d . A s m a l l p e r c e n t a g e ,

g o v e r n m e n t was which

go

just

very

through repression

mainstream

and

of

pows have n o t

forgotten,

organizational

systematically

programme t o o .

look at

the

can

t e r m s was

the

and

reflect

be

with

question

discussion

counterintelligence

were i n f i l t r a t e d .

history

some o f

the

that

- you

p e o p l e who the

seem t o

y e a r and

the

i t i s a wrong i m p r e s s i o n . But

was,

organizations

y o u r own

and

for destruction

f o r m e d and

of

trial

island.

b l a c k pps

sort

forces,

the

the

last

l o t of Black Panthers are

outcomes o f

organizations

island,

of

of

l o t of

a

think

70s

-.targetted

the

pro-colony

status

a

f o r many y e r a s

one

of

on

- have become c a s e s o f

the

pows i s v e r y much p a r t

point,

7 million

are

the

i t seems t h a t

this

M a c h e t e r o s who

i n d e p e n d e n c e movement. I n

b l a c k c o m m u n i t y . Does t h a t at

the

W e l l s Fargo Truck - $

e v e n some o f

the

Q:

a c c u s e d members o f

white

North

s u p p o r t w o r k f o r pps repression

and

is really

p e o p l e who

are

a n t i - i m p e r i a l i s t s . I s t h e r e any American

v i e w e d as doing

an

important

that kind

comparison

anti-imperialist prisoners

?

to

of the

front

work o f t e n support

in

the

define

that

you

receive

'. . â&#x20AC;˘ÂŤ: No,

I don' c t h i n k

starting

point.

H e r e i n t h e US,

i n t h e FRG.

Here i t r e f e r s

than

analyze act

t h e US

as

an

in solidarity

here i s very

t h e r e i s any

and

very

national liberation

level

of conciusness of

t h a t we trials

were was

and

e x i s t . T h o s e t h a t do i n the l a s t

and

couple

concerns.

of i t s e l f .

know, and

of years,

I t i s just

in a California

a role

iiT those

whole,

b u t some o f

pps

as

being

like

defend

those

p e o p l e as

-. :.: I t h i n k

rebellions,

and

very

of the n a t i o n a l

left.

they

i t was

fight

of

that

I think,

people

the

i n t h e 70s

actively 60s,

being

rewritten

even i n terms o f

finally

exposed

struggle

had

challenge

US

policies

familiar

to people

rebellions i n the

and

sense about t h e no

that

they

Until

take

steps

very

r e c e n t l y t h e r e were

r e a s o n s . I n f a c t w h a t we

seeing

t h e s t a t e and

time

supported

i t as

that

had

, people t h o u g h t the

less obvious.

i t was

i n Central America,

then

was

doing

p e o p l e who

own

to

s q u a d s . So

by

the FBI a new

and

thing.

as

t h e FBI

people resumed

were

the

and

to

believing

involved

and

i t is

happened

that

i n the

when Central

that operation

was

i t wasn't a

t h a t as

who

able

are

which i s a

No,

there

repression i f

history

remember w h a t r e a l l y

p e r p e t u a t i o n of something And

the

development

being

the s t a t e respondsby

v a r i o u s red

targetted

a

not

both

the

a form of

what t h e FBI

even p e r p e t u a t i n g our

and

played

p r i s o n s as

purposes i n terms of seeing

understand

the

p e r s p e c t i v e of you

FRG

movement.

t h e m o v e m e n t . Even a l o t o f

movement was

gone down was

be

w i t h the Peoples of El Salvador)

t h i n g a t a l l , i t g o e s b a c k - i t was

struggle

w h e n some o f t h e u r b a n

o f a movement and

y o u r own

the r o l e of the FBI

i n t h e 80s

our

humanitarian,

of the

t h e s t r u g g l e s o f t h e 60s

a l l the t i m e . People don't

America a n t i - i n t e r v e n t i o n

front

low

know

through

l e v e l of basic

point there i s r e a l l y

political

don't

CISPES ( C o m m i t t e e i n S o l i d a r i t y

began t o g e t

f o r t h e movement - h a v i n g

to strengthen

a difficult

really

were themselves committed a n t i - i m p e r i a l i s t s

repressive p a r t of

h a v e had

don't

a significant

i s changing.

for basic

important

important

We

one

t h a t we

i t f o r humanitarian

p e o p l e who

s o c i a l m o v e m n e n t s i n t h e US

challenged.

So,

a much d i f f e r e n t

f i g h t e r s or c o m b a t a n t s

i s something

the

t h e r e were a s e r i e s o f u p r i s i n g s around

this

p a r t of defending

s p o k e n some a b o u t

f r o m any

t h e c l a n d e s t i n e o r g a n i z a t i o n s t h e m s e l v e s - and

that

to

At

movement

i t i s t h e pps

i n prison from

as w e l l .

and

t h e r e i s a very

s e e n y e t as

p r i s o n and

which

left

defined at the

more t r u e

movement

anti-imperialist

having

\

differently

a whole system

the dominant w h i t e

is fairly

not

within

the s u p p o r t

t h e r e was

were even doing

i t clearly,

e x p o s e and

in

pps

small core

p r i s o n e r s as of

the the

that

many p e o p l e who

doing

say

The

When G e o r g e J a c k s o n whose name m i g h t

c o u n t r y . Cfhere w e r e n u m e r o u s pps

a very

I would

pows, w e t h e r

P e r h a p s t h a t was

taking place. assassinated

was

movements.

struggles, within

pps

somewhat

n a t i o n , o p p o s e i m p e r i a l i s m as

isolated.

altogether different

s e c t o r s of the p r o g r e s s i v e

movements o r t h e a n t i - i m p e r i a l i s t

human r i g h t s in

t o those

with national liberation

small

a t an

" anti-imperialism" i s defined

imperialist

other

liberation

comparison. I t i s j u s t

the

began t o respond

new

social and

i t s r o l e much m o r e

tried aggressive

as

a

that are

Q:

political

around others

Do

the

think point

: Yes,

Bureau of up

on

be

that

that for

m e n t had

a

you

LExington

l o t of

of

i t backfired

i t was

the

HSU

yet

s u c h an

p e o p l e can

of

that

i n the

last

few

h a v e done t h a t w o r k

i n L e x i n g t o n was

broader p u b l i c

US

years

there

now

be

the

US

kind

of

thought that

so

at

least

that

or

do

the

you

single

not

terrorism

miscalculated

experiment

that

that

I

think

con-

opposition.

t h r o u g h t h a t can

that

the

supporting

continue,

campaign a g a i n s t

issue mobilizations

people,

behind - a l t h o u g h

they

ended

P u e r t o R i c a n i n d e p e n d e n c e move-

created feel

a

the

that

r e t h o r i c of and

in initiating

was

of

government or opposition

the

o b v i o u s l y an the

sort

?

g o v e r n m e n t . The

specifically

mixed. S u p p o r t i n g

HSU

human r i g h t s a c t i v i t y

awareness

of

the

t h e r e would

to play

public

get

a

e x t r e m e and

a n o t h e r one

i t was

by

the

kind

I w o u l d say

the

against

pps

on

t i m e of your t r i a l

was

think

i t is in fact only

to L e x i n g t o n . They

important role

think

xeample d u r i n g

a

recognition

s c a r e o f f any

t h a t . And very

do

•.: I

I think

broad o p p o s i t i o n

in relationship

enough t o

to

S

the

the

basis.Also

And

so

Prisons never thought t h a t

tributed

O:

And

pps.

definitely

emerging

would

force.

c o r e o f c o m m i t t e d a n t i - i m p e r i a l i s t s who

supporting

you

starting

S

police

in the

for

the

US

?

human r i g h t s w h i c h

is

something

e n o u g h - i s c o m i n g . The

d o m i n a n t b a s i s upon — a.<\i it's w h i c h p e o p l e o b j e c t e d t o L e x i n g t o n was t h a t t h e v d i d n ' t l i k e i s o l a t i o n w w i c h *o an e a s i e r i become irwjoluta m o^poj^q T^gjt Tka.r\ ,5 hs> <,<+f>poft J-e.\fol\j.iioA&r\?s • E r r i n g ,£P g j i j j j o - ^ - ^ ^ ^ did'n' t l i k e a d e m o c r a t i c c o u n t r y t o r t u r i n g i t s own d i s s i d e n t s , • which, A

really on

was

trial

w h a t was as

b e i n g an

show t r i a l then. the

But

I

on

movements -

at

least

there

i n New

struggle, struggle

L gay have

a

m o r e pps but

number o f

- the

I think

i s repression,

So,

I think

t h a t w e n t on

of

lesbian

been

the

in a

l o t at

a climate

was

little very

t h e r e has

s o u r c e s t h a t our

out-lesbian.

attack

has

a

has

climate

, politically

not

there

just LExington,

t h a t went on resulted

that

against

in t r i a l s

there i s a

says " yes, political

things,

that hopefully

will

there

police,

including

the

help

going

orchestrated and

but

through

the

Black

and

come t o g e t h e r i n b e g i n n i n g

a climate

been a number of

then to

is

change political

and

yes,

Lexington us

as

the

i t will.

support

I think

through

attacks

i t is political,

t h a t have c r e a t e d

movement. And

the

both

t h a n when y o u - a r e

i n winning a victory r i g h t

created

significantly,

bit different

self-concious

stake

political

emergence of

i n t e n s i f i e s which undoubtedly

One and

f a r as

York the

there pps".

state

is a

P u e r t o R i c a n movement, t h r o u g h

minimally,

are

the

That

g o v e r n m e n t has

i n so

the

emergence of

opposition,

are

think

there.

enemy o f

where t h e

attack

the

g o i n g on

that

has part

come f r o m i n t h e of

that

last

period

i s from

i s because L i n d a and

the I

have s u p p o r t e d too.

the struggle

But I think

that

ment i s c h a l l e n g i n g struggle their

l i b e r a t i o n v e r y much i n t h e i r p o l i t i c a l

there i s another reason

, which

t h e g o v e r n m e n t on t h e q u e s t i o n

f o r people.

I t brings

b o d i e s and how t h e y

increase of the attacks

gay

people

i s having

i s that

their lives.

histories

t h e gay and l e s b i a n

o f AIDS w h i c h

p e o p l e up a g a i n s t c o n t r o l

live

the

part

f o r women's

isa life

of the state

and d e a t h

over t h e i r l i v e s a n d

The g r o w t h o f homophobia i n t h i s p e r i o d ,

on gay p e o p l e , a n d t h e i n c r e a s e

i n laws d i r e c t e d

when y o u a r e i n a c o n f r o n t a t i o n

with

m i l i t a n t i n i t s actions.

the state

like

against

p e o p l e who r e s i s t . You a r e m o r e ^=ep u n i t i n g w i t h

which

i s a concept

that

i s very

important

And I t h i n k t h a t ' .

that, you have less

other

questions

of. o p p o s i t i o n

within

role.?

you t h i n k

t o us.

S

rebellion

played of

that

prisons

inside

an i m p o r t a n t

The

role

itself

i n prison

says

opposition

a role

i n the prisons

political that

either

that

t o become a n i n c r e a s i n g

focus of r e s i s t a n -

are going

i n t h e US i n l e s s

prisoners

itself

responsibility We

than 5 yeras

nji

u'nn

acaaptesagg

opposition

to isolate

u s . Beyond

t o keep a flame o f r e s i s t a n c e

now t h e d o m i n a n t l o c a t i o n

that

that

a voice

that

needed

do

i s going

o f us i s i n p r i s o n

that

that

alive

'.

I think

HI w i r i t

will

t h e r o l e o f pps

in ^ r h "

movements and t h e we have t o p l a y

among a s many p r i s o n e r s - s o c i a l a n d inside

the prisons

t o make

i s one o f t h e r e a s o n s why t h e

s p e c i f i c a l l y as pps we have a i n t h e s e n s e o f an i d e o l o g i c a l , been i m p o r t a n t

i n the l e f t .

which i s a b i g problem. I think

politick Right

probably

simi-

when a number o f p e o p l e w h e r e i n t h e p r i s o n s a n d

by a number o f t h i n g s

u n i t s , and t h e s t r u g g l e

o u r d e f e n s e on human r i g h t s . I t h i n k

now, 1 m i l l i o n p e o p l e

develops. Certainly

t o be on t h e o u t s i d e was n o t t h e r e .

t o be d e t e r m i n e d

use o f c o n t r o l

' ' ii 11

has h i s t o r i c a l l y

t o some e a r l i e r p e r i o d s i n t h e FRG

that

from

t o forge a front of struggle

r e p r e s e n t something

historically

b u t p e o p l e who a r e i n r e b e l l i o n

i n trying to build unity

- i n order

- and h a v e

i n s y p h o n i n g o f f t h e most r a d i c a l , m i l i t a n t elements

r e b e l l i o n s o m e t h i n g more d i r e c t . And I t h i n k

position.

to play

resistance

as a r e s u l t o f r a c i s m o r p o v e r t y .

and t h e p o l i t i c a l

government c l e a r l y wants

of

and t o r e l a t e t o t i c .

w h i c h i s ar/enormous p e r c e n t a g e o f t h e p o p u l a t i o n .

social

the

t o a c h i e v e some u n i t y

the s e l f - c o n c i o u s o p p o s i t i o n ,

their conditions,

state

The p r i s o n s

f o rthe state

^^^aB^SBJ^^^^^SP^^jJaBBBBeftft^

lar

be p o s s i b l e

i n t h e US a r e g o i n g

the prisons.

n o t even n e c e s s a r i l y

against

be

c o m m u n i t i e s . And w h e r e do y o u see y o u r own

i n t h e US, b o t h a t t h e human r i g h t s l e v e l a n d a t t h e l e v e l o f v i o l e n c e and

and

level

on t h e o u t s i d e ?

â&#x20AC;˘: I t h i n k

ce

the d i f f e r e n t national that i t w i l l

about

p e o p l e a g a i n s t a common enemy,

Q: W h e r e do you s e e t h e r o l e o f p p s i n t h e s l o w r e - e m e r g e n c e o f a more g r a s s r o o t s

..struggle's

'

a n i m p a c t o n p e o p l e ' s t h i n k i n g . So ACT UP, w h i c h i s t h e most m i l i t a n t ;

o f t h e AIDS m o v e m e n t , has b e e n e x t r e m e l y

How.do

move-

that

And how w e l l

- t h e u s e o f i s o l a t i o n i n t h e US,

ahs b r o u g h t a b o u t

we a r e a l l g o i n g

we .can o r we c a n n o t

t o push

recognition the struggle

of ensuring ourselves

Q:

L e t me a s k y o u a q u e s t i o n

and

the resistance

association strike Do

i n relation

h a v e been

to that.

f o r years f i g h t i n g

o f a l l pps . T h i s

demand

has a l s o

and i t i s t h e c e n t r a l demand

I n * t h e FRG isolation

, the prisoners

o f t h e RAF

w i t h t h e demand f o r

t h e c e n t r a l demand o f t h e l a s t

f o r most o f t h e s u p p o r t

y o u see pps i n t h e US, do y o u s e e y o u r s e l v e s

hunger-

w o r k on t h e o u t s i d e .

a t a p o i n t where you w i l l

demand

association ?

i: I t h i n k i n the longer conditions that

i n this

country

around

i tw i l l

be a demand. G i v e n t h e r e a l

the question

of pps

we c a n y e t e s t a b l i s h . I t h i n k we a r e s t i l l

the

US g o v e r n m e n t ' s c r i m i n a l i z a t i o n

it

i s a long

it

i s to really

...

struggle. I ti s like affirm

that there

o r why i s n ' t

-there a r e prisoners

from

- we a r e i n t h e p r i s o n s been

together

t h i n k i t i s a demand

to look

be somewhat s u c c e s f u l

but I think

a t t h i n g s i n s t a g e s - and one s t a g e o f

But a g a i n

we a r e t a l k i n g

struggle.So

- to build

while

u n i t y against

we have done t h a t a b s o l u t e l y - we a l s o

about a s i t u a t i o n

we h a v e a v e r y

whatever goals

where

strong

basis

t h e s t a t e , and w h e r e we

are responsible

and d e f i n i t i o n s

have

t o and a c c o u n t a b l e

m o v e m e n t s o n t h e o u t s i d e . And y o u a s a p r i s o n e r

y o u r own s t r a t e g y s e p a r a t e f r o m

combating

t o p e o p l e i n E u r o p e who a s k " why d o n ' t y o u demand

every d i f f e r e n t

some ways t o d i f f e r e n t

I don't

a r e pps i n t h e US.

ther u n i t y " .

together

r

material

a t t h e s t a g e o f i n a sense

o f p p s . We w i l l

trying

.: I know i t i s a b i g q u e s t i o n

association,

in

term

do n o t i m o l e m e n t

and s t r u g g l e s

are of

t h e movement t h a t y o u a r e p a r t o f .

One

specific

there to

e x a m p l e i n t e r m s o f a n a n s w e r t o t h a t i s t h a t t h e P u e r t o R i c a n pows -

a r e 25 i n t h e US p r i s o n s

a l l be p u t i n a m i l i t a r y

are

- have

p r i s o n a n d t o be t r i e d

t h e Geneva A c c o r d s t h a t w o u l d

position

of their

under i n t e r n a t i o n a l

l a w . They d o n ' t

different

course

response i n keeping

their

them s e p a r a t e d

are colonized raise this

demand a l l t h e t i m e ,

I t h i n k t h a t i s one p a r t o f a n a n s w e r t o t h e i s s u e

as M a r i l y n

said

demand

maintain

have e n t e r e d

understand

but they

raised i t a t

but i t functioned

and w i n t h e s t r u g g l e

a s p p s . And I t h i n k we with that issue

i s t h a t we d i d h a v e

as a s s o c i a t i o n .

i n Lexington.

is a

o f how do we r a i s e a s s o c i a t i o n .

the prisons

feeling

to tha

i n t h e US i n a l o t o f d i f f e r e n

Personally,

and I

small

And i t was t h e r e a s o n I t h i n k t h a t we

a s s o c i a t i o n , b u t how we do i t , when we do i t , on w h a t b a s i s

questions

political

T h e men a r e a l l i n d i f f e r e n t

a b o u t w h a t and how we w a n t t o d e a l

i t i s a p r o c e s s . My p e r s o n a l

group i s o l a t i o n a t Lexington, we c o u l d

a r e 50 f e d e r a l p r i s o n s

5 y e a r s 22 a n t i - i m p e r i a l i s t s

t o make a d e t e r m i n a t i o n

think

and t h e r e

one p r i s o n t o a n o t h e r .

places.

have

a

people and t h e r e f o r e have a r i g h t

around

the last

from

i s n o r e s p o n s e by t h e US g o v e r n m e n t , b u t t h e r e from

poin.tr

c o u r t under b a s i c a l l y what

And t h a t f l o w s

prisons

In

the country,

i n a military

be a p p l i e d t o pows.

movement t h a t t h e y

points.Of

r a i s e d t h e demand f o r a s s o c i a t i o n a t d i f f e r e n t

why

will

and f o r whom a r e a l l

t h a t we have t o s t r u g g l e o u t a s t h e s t a t e i m p l e m e n t s I t s s t r a t e g y a n d a s we t h e c o n d i t i o n s we a r e i n . One

r e a s o n why I do f e e l

t h a t we w i l l

end up

raising

that

demand and n o t g e n e r a l

have

t o have a p o l i t i c a l

automatic

state

very

specific.

are different

we a r e g o i n g

stand

So t h e n

when y o u s p e n d y e a r s i n b e h a v i o u r

t h e issue

side

t h a t can h e l p

prisoners

from

different

nations, s t r u g g l e s , classes,

t h a t o u t . And I t h i n k t h e g o v e r n m e n t i s g o i n g around

of prison

that impossible. able

life itself,

I really

info

during

.activities relate

around

t h e h s i n t h e FRG.

to the overall

the last

from

an a l t o g e t h e r h i g h e r armed

organizations

guerilla close

front

level

, very

different

i n t h e FRG,

t h a t from

of the prisoners

from

the prisons

immediate gestures

invited

this

ggle

And we h a v e t h e FRG,

t e n years,

very

and i n c r e a s i n g l y which i s a t

have a l s o s t u d i e d

difficult

the organiza-

thing to establish a

confronted from

just

r e v o l u t i o n a r y r e s i s t a n c e . When

continued

with isolation.

t o grow, l a r g e l y

And t h e n

and t h e r e

solid

on a n i n d i v i d u a l

the anti-imperialist

relationship.

r e a f f i r m e d a bond

our r e l a t i o n s h i p with

and a l s o

exchange

and t h e means o f

s u g g e s t i o n s and ideas

level,

attorneys

h a s been a c o n s t a n t

t h e means o f r e p r e s s i o n from

because

received

f o r a p e r i o d o f t i m e . T h e y and t h e i r

i n terms of concrete

the issue

a l l o f us

t h e pps i n t h e FRG a n d i t j u s t

b e n e f i t t e d tremendously

both

want t o p r e f a c e

and very

really

a c h i e v e m e n t . So, n a t u r a l l y ' w e a r e

t h e pps

a b o u t how t o

m o r e r e c e n t l y , we h a v e

t h e m a b o u t t h e i m p o r t a n c e o f and t h e i n t e g r i t y

f o r t h e pps w i t h i n

existing

interest

1984 a b o u t u n d e r s t a n d i n g

a l o t from

So, I j u s t

us h e r e . We

t o come t o t h e FRG

combat i s o l a t i o n learning

support

i n t h a t a n d how do y o u

t h e movement i n t h e FRG

because i t i s j u s t a

a t a more a b s t r a c t l e v e l

since

in

t o study

and t h a t i s a s i g n i f i c a n t

of s o l i d a r i t y

our attorneys

that.

o f t h e RAF and - the

t h e RAF a n d t h e r e s i s t a n c e ?

a p o i n t o f view o f p o l i t i c a l

many o f us w e r e i m m e d i a t e l y

w h i c h we f e l t

Europe,

and f o r b e t t e r o r w o r s e , w i t h i t s ups and d o w n s , t h e RAF h a s e x i s t e d f o r

t o study

we came i n t o

have t r i e d

from

i n t e r m s o f what e x i s t s on t h e o u t -

What k i n d o f r o l e d i d y o u p l a y

o f development than

t o 20 y e a r s i n t h e FRG

trying

fighting

We

struggle

y o u a n d t h e r e w e r e a l s o r e p o r t s on

struggle of the prisoners

5 or s i x years.

everything

t h i n k the f i r s t

.TV:: We h a v e had a r e ; t i c n s h i p o f s h a r e d s t r u g g l e f o r t h e l a s t in

t o do

move-

f o r t h a t demand.

the hungerstrike

r e s i s t a n c e , , t h e r e w e r e a number o f l e t t e r s

sexes,

t o h a v e some k i n d o f c o m m u n i c a t i o n .

but also

t p push f o r and o r g a n i z e

Q: I n t h e . r e l a t i v e s

mo-

o f an a c t i v e c o n f r o n t a t i o n w i t h

c o n d i t i o n s f o r t h e s t r u g g l e f o r a s s o c i a t i o n are very i n the content

i s nothing

i n s i d e t h e p r i s o n s , means t h a t t h e r e h a s t o be

t o have i s a b o u t even being

both

there

But because o f t h e empire, because o f t h e c o l o n i a l i s m , because

c a n t o make t h e d i a l o g u e

The

political

regimentation.

m e n t s we h a v e t o f i g u r e it

your

, which I t h i n k i s our r o l e

something there

isolation,

i s b e c a u s e I s t r o n g l y b e l i e v e t h a t a s a pp y o u

s t r u g g l e w i t h the s t a t e . I ti s not automatic,

about m a i n t a i n i n g

dification, the

population

been

o f t h e movement and

stru-

movement a s a w h o l e .

o f t h e hs w i t h s a y i n g

t h a t t h e r e had been a pre.-'

So, when we h e a r d a b o u t

t h e hs b e i n g

c a l l e d , t o us i t

wasn't

j u s t an

thing

t h a t we

around tical hs

occasion could

t h e hs,

do

and

would

we

on

US.

African We

events

I don't

do

one

Q:

out

and

issue and

the

they

but

because

the

o f i t , p e o p l e knew who

Q:

Do

activities

inside

. .: A b s o l u t e l y , self-determined So

the

happened

t h i s was

US

was

part

t h i s way,

at

by

was

a call

day

i n t h i s case. the

The Southern

experience. issues

f o r s o l i d a r i t y t o the o t h e r that

s o l i d a r i t y f a s t , and

participated

pol

preventive

o f a coalescence of

e v e r b e e n d o n e on

from

prisoners.

l e v e l and

on t h e day

around

and

we

I think

we

pps

didn't

t h a t i t ha

the.country.

may

dominantly

understood,

comrades, Puerto leading and

that

Rican

the

t h e RAF

was

and

the

pows, and

a b o u t t h e RAF

hs

to raise

know

case anti-

that

p r i s o n e r s and

was

the

be t h e

some o t h e r

e f f o r t s t h e r e , we

what the

social

that would

have been t h e s t a r t i n g p o i n t

important prisoners

about

about

f o r amny p r i s o n e r s '

about.

l e v e l of conciousness

not

since

i t . I t did i n i t i a t e

themselves, e s p e c i a l l y

prisoners acting

least

out

of

and

?

so

activity

strike against

f o r us

just sort

also a s t a r t i n g point

prisons

that

important

social

w h i l e South A f r i c a

feel that

sent

w o r k a b o u t t h e FRG

in

you

so

issue

existed

als6 a s i g n i f i c a n t

f o r m a t i v e to our

w e r e o r g a n i z i n g and

And

were on

that

?

t h e r e were a l s o

isolation.

t h e r e was

importan

activity

been e x t r e m e l y

quite

to South A f r i c a

p r i s o n e r s who

some s u p p o r t

i n solidarity with

we

has

t h e most

for apartheid

prisoners

was

d i d a l o t of e d u c a t i o n a l

end

i t i s a l s o an

prisoners

majority

p r i s o n e r s were r e s p o n d i n g

who

that

t h e media blockade

mobilize

detainees

f o r a one

t o 600

political

t r y and

felt

, a t t h e same t i m e

support

thing

called

close

through

t h e o t h e r . T h e r e was

such a We

that

: I w o u l d say

imperialist

here,

US

n o t do

that

B o t h s o c i a l and

initially,

political

t h a t d e m a n d e d a r e s p o n s e and think,

turned

could

l i b e r a t i o n m o v e m e n t s has

know what t o e x p e c t . it

an

break

i t happened

of

apartheid

national

couldn't

and -

against

t o t r y and

t h a t we

As

i n South A f r i c a

d e t e n t i o n which i s a l s o struggle

be

thought

prisoners i n the

going

t o s e n d a n i c e s o l i d a r i t y m e s s a g e . We

together

the e a r l y

70s

and

p r i s o n e r s on

I don't

, but

a number o f a c t i o n s death

t h i n k i t ever

of

row. quite

c e r t a i n l y not around i s s u e s

of

international solidarity.

Q:

And

i t seems t o h a v e

pictures

of a demonstration

.: T h e r e w e r e s m a l l NYC

related

who

throughs

in

insisted the

that

media,

i n New

York C i t y

demonstrations.

w h e r e p e o p l e demanded

flakes

to a c t i v i t i e s

t o see he

some

had in

on

the s t r e e t s

as

the

T h e r e was

a confrontation

k n o w l e d g e o f any left

press,

saw

some

.

t h e West-German a m b a s s a d o r and no

w e l l . We

but

hs

a t t h e FRG

consulate

got

one

i n t h e FRG.

mostly

in

the

t o see But we

of the

in

press

made some b r e a k -

international

press.