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R . A n t h on y H a r r is Ken Howard p u b l i s h er Ton y Lyn ch Pa r ke r PJ Sykes ed i tor- i n - c h i ef Ki m ber l y Fros t Sco t t W h i ten er N ate “I gor ” S m i th m a n a g i n g ed i tor J os eph Tal s m an J o h n Rei n h o l d Karen S ei f er t a d d i rec to r N i ck Gh obas h i A s h l ey Yor k C am eron Lew i s L a u ren Vi n cel l i I an Grah am a d ver t i s i n g Davi d Ken edy I a n M . G ra h a m Mi ke Wood n ew m ed i a ph otograph y L a n d i s Wi n e Mi ke Wood m u s i c ed i to r Mi l es Qu i l l en B en M u r i Lan di s Wi n e J o n H ea d l ee C h r i s ti an Detres Ba y l en Forc i er R . An th on y Har r i s RVA T V w r i ti n gs C a s ey Lon g yea r S. Pres ton Du n can fa s h i on S h an n on C l ear y N ei l Lop ez I an M Grah am on l i n e w r i ti n g
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TONY LYNCH by Landis Wine
It can be pretty hard to miss Tony Lynch at a show in Richmond. My first formal encounter with him came about when he showed up before a punk show at Bagel Czar with an armful of equipment in tow, explaining to us that he was going to shoot the show. Since that time, I’ve had the pleasure of seeing him at work and the subsequent results, which are never short of spectacular. The last of these was the Dinosaur Jr. show at The National, during which he braved their walls of stacks to take close up photos of the band. I recently spoke to Tony about his passion, his technique and his urge to experiment.
Landis Wine: Tony, how wo uld yo u prefer to have yo ur style o f photography described?
Tony Lynch: I mean, I do a lot of concer t photography and stuff like that. I kind of dabble in a little bit of ever y thing. Concer t photography can be a kind of on and off thing, just because it depends on whether or not there are good shows to go to. I tr y to keep myself busy doing a little bit of ever y thing. I like to do por traits and go o ut on the street and fiddle with old cameras and stuff. I do a little bit of ever y thing. Wo uld yo u say that concer t photography is yo ur primar y passion?
Well, it’s definitely where I star ted. Since I was 15 or 16 years old I’ve been coming to shows here. I grew up 45 minutes down so uth from Richmond. I just star ted bringing my camera to shows and kind of documenting, I guess. In the end, I’ve star ted to experiment with concer t photography and do more than the basic flash photography kind of thing. I really like to bring my own lighting equipment to shows and set up studio environments. It’s a little more than what yo u wo uld normally expect from concer t photography. I’m tr ying to take it somewhere else, kind of.
What abo ut a band makes them photogenic?
Well, it kind of stems from what I like in music, period: people who are really genuine abo ut what they’re playing. People that are excited abo ut what they’re playing are definitely the easiest to photograph. Some bands that are just star ting o ut, they just kind of stand aro und; they don’t look like they really want to be there sometimes. Stuff like that isn’t ver y easy to photograph just because the pictures come o ut looking as boring as they were when they were playing the songs. I sor t of feel like people who are really in yo ur face… I’ve had people before that will shake my camera while I’m photographing them at their show. Stuff like that where they really break the fo ur th wall. Who are the most memorable bands yo u’ve photographed?
A co uple of years ago this band from Japan came over called Unholy Grave. They played up at this wareho use in Baltimore, and it was definitely one of the first times where the pictures I took away from it that day are ones that I wo uld want to hang onto for a long time. They were really in yo ur face, and they were super lo ud, and I feel like yo u co uld almost see that from the way the pictures looked.
The first band that I feel like I got good pictures of and I shot multiple times was Government Warning. I’ve shot them tons and tons of times, and they continue to use my pictures in their records. I think they’re one of those bands in Richmond that carr y that energy ever y show they play. It comes naturally to me now because I’ve done it so many times with them that I kind of know their movements. What they do for different songs is something I can pick up on. What tricks have yo u learned to keep yo ur equipment from getting smashed during shows?
Yo u really do have to kind of fight against the crowd. I definitely don’t want to make it a bad time for anyone else at the show and be that guy who’s like “I have a photo pass, get o ut of my way!” But yo u definitely have to kind of asser t yo urself. Sometimes yo u have to hit somebody in the face with yo ur camera to get them o ut of yo ur way. I remember at Best Friends Day a co uple of years ago this guy kept shoving my camera and smudging his sweaty fingers all over my lens and stuff, and I just had to shove him o ut of my way and move on. Ever ybody’s
kind of there for their own reasons, and since my reason is to get photographs I have to force it. Like I said abo ut set ting up studio lights, I feel like I annoy the shit o ut of a lot of people by doing that. Sometimes when yo u position the lights it’s right in the face of a lot of people, and there’s always somebody that’s staring at the light and it pops off and blinds them. I feel like I’m probably pretty obnoxio us at shows. Do yo u have any dream concer ts that yo u wish yo u co uld photograph?
Well, I definitely fulfilled it at least par tially by getting to photograph Dinosaur Jr. and Mike Watt. They’re definitely some of my heroes. A lot of the influence I take in concer t photography is from bands from the early ‘80s. Glen E. Freeman, ever ybody knows his name. There’s a lot of other guys who kind of cataloged the L.A. punk scene and the D.C. punk scene with their photographs. I wish that I
co uld photograph some of those bands, even tho ugh it’s not possible. I’d love to get photos of Black Flag, that wo uld be the coolest shit ever, but today, it kind of goes back to the best possible bands to photograph for me are the ones that have the most energy. I don’t have a specific list or any thing like that. I like to get great shots of bands that do great work. Outside o f bands, tell me more abo ut what yo u photograph.
I’m kind of a camera nerd. I like to read abo ut cameras. Different older cameras will give yo u kind of interesting effects. I like to experiment with a lot of old cameras from the 50s and ‘60’s and stuff. I feel like I shoot a lot of different things. There’s a lot of pictures of my friends in the end that I like the best, because I get to take the most time with them and kind of focus a little bit more instead of walking up to someone on the street and photographing them; even tho ugh that’s what I’d like to do in the end is go back to those classic street photographers where they’re running aro und New York City and getting into ever ybody’s face with the camera. They wo uld get all these scowly-faced people in their photos. But as for right now I really like to do these stark land-
scape pictures, whether they’re urban or farmland that’s dilapidated-looking. I’ve been kind of experimenting with a co uple of old cameras that have really soft lenses that have kind of a dreamy effect when yo u take pictures of people with it. Sometimes I’ll get an idea for something and then go tr y it o ut. I have a little bit of free time sometimes, so I tr y to use it as much as I can to do different things. I see a lot of different kinds of photography, and some of it I tr y to emulate and some of it I tr y to come up with on my own. Do yo u have a standard setup that yo u use for shows, or do yo u switch it up?
I’ve been using a lot of digital equipment lately just because it’s really easy. Sometimes I have a film camera that I can attach some of my lenses from my digital camera onto. I’ll shoot some film, develop it myself and put water spots all over the negative, stuff like that. It used to be that I wo uld shoot stuff with a 35mm manual camera. I had the simplest, cheapest stuff that I co uld find on eBay and just kind of went with it from there. But for right now I’m shooting digital, mostly concer ts, and it just gives me a lot of control. I can get a lot of different looks with it in the end, even if I didn’t get the shot to begin with, which is nice. f l i c k r.com /peopl e/ton yl yn ch
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COWBOYS
photos/words by Mike Wood We parked behind the titty bar and went into 7-11 for snacks. After hotdogs we were on our way into the woods. It was about a mile through the woods then another mile down the tracks. He pointed to a spot where he had to lay and hide at night years ago while someone in the distance was burying something. At least it wasn’t him. At the end of the path there was a set of steps that led to nothing. It was the only structure of any kind until we made it to the wall. It didn’t take long until we were hiding in
the woods from the Amtrack. The train flew by, which explained all the deer skeletons on the tracks. Once it was all clear, he finished his piece and we got out of there. Modern Cowboys is a small window into the lives of a group of writers. These guys don’t just paint for the fun of it, they do it because it’s who they are. When I started the project I just wanted to take some fun images. But I soon saw how awesome these guys were and it became my goal to capture it. m i kewoodph oto.com
It’s Pronounced
by Christian Detres
“All I want to do is live an interesting life and tell the story. I don’t have anything grand to say with my photography, I just want it to be interesting. I just want to be associated with good times. I am a very visual person with a very bad memory, though. I write everything down. I like stories, and I love telling them.” – Nate Smith Nate “Igor ” Smith’s current work is seen by over one million people every month on Drivenbyboredom.com. That’s equivalent to every man, woman and child in Richmond and its surrounding counties, every month. It’s blogged on, anticipated and part of the nightlife fabric of the media capital of the world. That’s on his website. Add Flavorpill, Inked Magazine, BrooklynVegan, Vice, The Village Voice and too many others to list without boring you to death, and you’ve got someone doing something right. For those of you with another opinion of this photographer – whether it be with the lens, motivating models or simply being in the right place in the right time – you can suck it. I’m saying this because he won’t. Seriously, suck it and take notes.
Nate grew up in the D.C. suburb of Alexandria, Va, attended Penn State and then VCU, during which time he became a staple of the Richmond nightlife scene, shooting every party, every show, managed the Gaskets and earned a, well, colorful reputation in the process. He shot for Punchline (his first published shoot being in the last issue of that long-gone, beloved weekly), ran his “Richmond Alleyway Project” in Chew On This magazine, ran the gamut of media outlets in Richmond, then headed off to conquer The Big Apple. Since arriving in the City, he’s made a name for himself as a premier nightlife photographer, hired by clubs and bars to document the shenanigans. He provides digital proof to morning after water cooler exaggerations. He’d be the first to downplay the nightlife experience, and I’d be the second. It’s his blog and the conceptual projects he’s created that showcase the insights he’s uncovered on nascent sexuality, exhibitionism and the art of living an adventure that make him a compelling artist. I sat down with him a couple weeks ago in his East Williamsburg apartment to get his story direct. Christian Detres: What’s the origin story? How’d you get into this?
Nate Smith: When I was growing up in Alexandria, my mother was a professional photographer. Photography
was just a part of everyday life. She doesn’t shoot anymore, but my dad does now, which is a switch. I took my first photo class when I was a sophomore in high school, and I sucked. Bad. I think I got a C in that class. When I returned as a junior I applied myself a bit more. I was really into Glen Friedman, the legendary punk photographer. I went to a bunch of punk shows in D.C., shooting every one I could. Author, publisher and photographer, Cynthia Connolly, introduced me to Glen, who made me buy my 20mm lens, which is still my favorite piece of equipment. Since then my interests have switched to shooting people, and since then I’ve been fascinated by people, sexuality and their stories. How’d you get the name ‘Igor ’?
My friends in D.C. that formed the band PCP Roadblock ages ago started calling me that. When I went off to Penn State everyone called me Nate. When I moved to Richmond, I reconnected with my D.C. friends who just went back to calling me Igor. So I guess that’s how people were introduced to me here. It’s stuck ever since.
Tell me about your Penn State days.
At Penn I used to bring my camera everywhere. Most people would find it weird, unless you know me, but I don’t drink. I don’t do drugs either. So on weekend nights I used to ride the campus shuttle bus all night just hanging out with friends. I used to have this stuffed monkey for some reason, so I started taking pictures of random people with the monkey. This was 1999. I would post them online in some sort of prehistoric blog format using a film camera. It became such a thing that people would look for me on the shuttle for me to take their picture with the monkey so they could see themselves online. I got interviewed by the local paper for all this and made the front page. I started Drivenbyboredom.com back then. It got really annoying after a while when people would harass me on the way to class for a damn monkey picture. As if I carried it everywhere. So I retired the monkey. That’s the beginning of my fascination with capturing people’s good times.
How does sexuality play into photography? You are known pretty well for your nudes…
We have to talk about one of my favorite projects of yours, the The Nascent Sexuality Polaroid Project. You integrated that into Google Maps, which I always thought was brilliant. You tagged all these spots with your photos and anecdotes of your life, loves, clumsy sexual escapades and infused it with a shy wistfulness that is beloved my many. It was seen by millions, commented on and linked incessantly. It conveyed the haziness of memory in a lurid palette filled with the sensory shock of awakening sexuality.
I was driving around my old neighborhood in Alexandria with a friend and started pointing out all these places I remembered – bushes, old girlfriends’ houses, secret spots, and I thought it was actually a damn good story. So I decided to get a Polaroid camera and shoot these ghostly memories translated through that format. So I went around the neighborhood and went to the house of my first crush (whose family no longer lives there) and photographed the façade. I went to the first place I had sex, I went to all these places that had resonance to that incredibly confusing but fun time of life when I was awakening to my sexuality.
I remember when I took my first nude. My girlfriend at the time was going away for a month, so she bought me a camera and told me take nude pictures of her. She wanted me to have something to remember her while she was gone, so I wouldn’t cheat on her. Since then I’ve taken over 300 individual nudes. I’m actually working on the Topless Polaroid Project right now, a book I’m writing that will explain the circumstances or the unique moment that each of these were. So sexuality is certainly part of my work, but what I most want to convey is not that. I think it’s because the naked body is routinely sexualized in our culture that we think that way. These pictures are fun. Everyone in them is having fun, exposed, in the moment and enjoying themselves. It’s a playfulness that finds it’s ultimate expression in the nude. I’m also working on the Awkward Nudes Project. Another book of Polaroids with nudes in less than flattering positions and circumstances. I also have a photo series on my blog, called Ambush Nudity, of friends flashing random strangers. It gets the most page views on my site. All of this is a small part of what I actually do though. I write on my blog, document my life and shoot people at their happiest. Thanks Igor, it’s good to finally get to know you.
d r i ve n byboredom .com
Nick Ghobashi Keeping His Eye on the Prize By Miles Quillen
I first met Nick Ghobashi in 2007 at a mini-ramp party in a backyard off Clay Street. Anyone in Richmond who skated or drank beer was there. It was a party that I’ll never forget. I’ll also never forget how this kid that I had never seen before was ripping through drunken feeble grinds like it was his job. As soon as I knew it I was hitting him up to go skate spots around the city. It was then that I was introduced to his photography. Nick truly has an eye, and he can capture a moment at its absolute peak. He has the ability to make a sidewalk curb look like a 10-stair gap and a Richmond house party look like it was happening on a Vegas rooftop. Being a skateboarder himself, he has naturally acquired the instinct needed to succeed. He recently won the FotoWeek D.C. competition and was introduced to National Geographic. I got the chance to talk to him recently about both of his combined passions, photography and skateboarding. Miles Quillen: Just take a deep breath, act natural, don’t be nervous; this might be the biggest interview of your life.
Nick Ghobashi: Yeah, kinda craving another ghetto sandwich.
So what’s it like being young?
Damn, I’m young? Oh yeah, wait I forgot when I first moved here all of you dickheads were graduating. Remember you used to sneak me into bars and buy me beer and such? I’m going to deny this. What was your previous life like before you came to Richmond?
Bro-fest 24/7. I went to Radford for a year and hated the hell out of it, so I went home to Northern VA instead of going back the next semester and just skated in D.C. every day. That’s when the whole skate photography thing started picking up. Seriously, picture me at Radford University. I’m trying to now, and it’s not happening at all. Did you go to Radford with photography in mind?
Well, my grades sucked and I messed up some applications, so that was the only school I got into. My parent’s were definitely not buying the whole photography as a profession thing at the time. But then I started showing them what I was doing they kinda chilled on it. When I was in Northern VA I applied to a bunch of expensive art schools and VCU. I got into a couple schools in Cali and the Art Institute in DC. But those schools cost more than I can sell my body for in a year, so it didn’t happen. VCU didn’t let me into art school, though – three times in a row.
And so you ended up coming south from Northern VA to VCU, just like thousands of other kids from NOVA? What was the first vibe that you got from Richmond?
Well, I was used to the grittiness of a city from being in D.C. all the time, so I wasn’t thrown off by that. I thought everyone was cool as shit and way nicer and more genuine than the rich kids from home. It was weird that all of a sudden my tight pants and half open shirts didn’t draw the stink eye from people down here. People are nuts down here. I was on my porch and saw some lady in 1920s looking clothes walking a green dog the other day. The same lady tried to get my boy, Josh Swyers, to come bang her out at her house. All he said was I like your green dog, and she said it was a red dog. Then she tried to get him to come home with her. People are straight crazy down here, man! How has skateboarding been affecting the way you think and how you shoot skate photos?
I just think way quicker and visualize everything way more than, say a dude that doesn’t skate that’s taking photos. Knowing all the tricks and visualizing where the person is going to be definitely helps. I just feel like skating keeps your spirit young and your mind open. And from that your creativity grows. Just being out with the homies and in a good mood makes my photos look better. We’re completely free doing whatever we want; just charging the streets on a sunny afternoon or the middle of the night, while dudes are stuck in traffic hating their lives. That freedom translates into my photographs, or at least I try to make it do that.
You’ve built quite a portfolio in the past couple of years. Skating, events, bands, etc. How do you let these different genres blend in your work?
Well, I feel like the edginess and action aspect of skateboarding has given me an edge in other genres. Like I said, I just try to make everything look and feel as glorious in my photos as it really is in real life. That’s really hard to do sometimes. I’ve had to make boring events look like a blast and girls that can’t model worth a crap look exciting. You’re pretty deep in the photo game. Reflect on not going to school for art/photography and where you are now with the medium.
Oh man, at first I was so bummed on not going to art school. I had to watch these kids going to class every day and learning shit they actually cared about and creating beautiful things all the time. I was so jealous and getting really bummed on life, not really knowing how to advance myself. Then about a year ago I just said fuck it and started teaching myself as much as I could. Then I won a first place award in a pretty big contest and got to have lunch with the head editor and photo editor of National Geographic. They basically told me that you don’t need to go to art school to make it. So finally after hearing it from them, I got hyped. So now here I am, I got studio equipment, a nice digital setup and multiple film cameras. I’m shooting everything under the sun and just trying to network like crazy. I’m actually going to NYC today to do a little of that.
Tell me more about this award you won recently.
Well, I entered a couple of photos in the first FotoWeek D.C. contest. FotoWeek DC was just started to showcase all of the established and up and coming photographers and work here in the U.S. and around Washington. Somehow I beat out thousands of people and made the top 3 for student photojournalism. I had to go to this huge formal thing at the National Geographic society in D.C. for the awards ceremony to see if I won or not. Me and my friend Sarah just got wasted on the free expensive booze. Then somehow they called my name for first place. I got $500 bucks, a bunch of free shit and a night of free booze and scrumptious food. I also met with the dudes from National Geographic. I had to schmooze with a bunch of fuckers that just feed off the art scene like flies, you know? Art snobs that just wander from show to show kissing artist’s asses. It was weird. Was this followed by a National Geographic after party with tribal girls in hot tubs and tigers as bartenders, hard drugs and flashing lights?
I took a shot out of a tiger’s butthole and then a walrus high-fived me. Best night ever! What’s your process like for different spots, different skaters and the elements of the city? Uh, well I hate shooting gaps and stairs. Well, most of them, because they look the same. I try to find things that look cool, or have good angles to shoot from or lots of color. And the homies down here are all insane, so whoever is doing the trick, I shoot.
Who are some of your favorite skaters to shoot in Richmond?
Josh Swyers, Tyler Beall, Jordan Bradshaw and Gilbert Crockett for sure. What’s the advantage of shooting dudes who can actually rip?
Swyers is a damn flying squirrel, Ty Beezy has the best style ever, Bradshaw just looks cool and Gilbert does the gnarliest shit ever. I’m trying to make it, and the better the skater, the better the photo and the more chance I have of getting it run and getting noticed. It’s hard to start shooting pros and ams other than my friends, though, because they always have magazine staff photographers with them. Really any dude can pick up a camera and shoot skateboarders. How does the fact that you actually skate and shoot skaters compare to one who just shoots?
You gotta know where the climax of the trick is man. The trickgasm! So if you know how to do a trick and what’s going to happen, then you know when it’s at its best. Like a dude who doesn’t know what a kickflip is isn’t going to know the photo will look best if you take it right before the dude catches the kickflip. You have to be a ninja – wax on, wax off kinda shit. Who are some of your photographic inspirations? Skate and non-skate related?
Well Jonathan Mehring is definitely an inspiration to my
skate photography. He just puts creativity and artistic taste in to the whole thing, which is what I try to do. I feel like too many people just take pictures, like they don’t create an image. I really like Brian Gaberman’s stuff, too. What is your view of a picture compared to an image?
Well, see a lot of people just take a picture and it has no soul. Like it is just a view of something. An image you look at and get a feeling, it has character. A lot of skate photographers are good, but you get no emotion from their photos. Does the state of the skate industry and the mainstreaming of the sport get you down any? Or do you see this as more possible work for you?
Yeah, a lot actually. I mean the money it brings the industry and the skaters is good to advance our sport, but I feel like it loses some of its soul as it gets more mainstream. You see all these little kids skating just to get good and following only the latest trends in skating. I feel like a lot of people see it like baseball or something; like something to train at, instead of a creative art. You get these little kids that would have been jock ass football players if skating weren’t cool, and they just bring the wrong attitude to the table. But hey, if there are more little Ryan Shecklers running around, that makes the mag sales go up, which gives me work and possibly a position in the future. Kind of like a yin-yang. huh? flickr.com/photos/ghobashi
Oui monsieur, the good and the bad, always balanced.
Dude, heavy question.
Which would you be, a yin-yang or a peace sign?
We’re on some heavy shit right now.
Fuck a peace sign. That just makes me think of college hippies, like the ones that live next door to me. They suck. How you gonna be a hippie and drive a Lexus?
I’d take Rowley for gnarness, Louie Barletta for a good sesh, and hmm. Let’s say… shit man, the whole Tiltmode crew, and some sick spot in China or Dubai. Or a mini ramp along a river in Spain or something. I don’t know, damn. I’ll take Gilbert (Crockett), homie steez.
Are you working on any current projects?
Yeah, hmm, well, I’ve had an idea for a book for a while. I want to just go around the city and shoot portraits of interesting people and characters, but keep it all black and white film. I’m also working on a lot of shoot ideas involving models and such. Some of them are studio shots and some are on location, but they should be pretty sweet. I want to get more into the fashion industry and shooting in the studio and high-end fashion. If I don’t work for a skate mag, I want to work for Nylon or Vice or something. I want to do all of that. I’m sending stuff to skate mags, too.
Nice answer. So where do you see yourself in one year from now? Five years from now?
One year, still blowing it, son! Nah, hopefully I’ll have a job assisting some really good photographer, either here, D.C. or in NYC; or I’ll be doing some work for a skate mag. In five years maybe I’ll have graduated from college finally or just not finished, I dunno. But hopefully I’ll be doing solid work having a position at a mag in five years shooting skating or models.
What’s you’re equipment setup right now?
Well, I got a D300 with a vertical grip, 50mm lens, 18200 lens, 10.5 mm fisheye, a Nikon flash, Vivitar flash, a few pocket wizard remotes, a couple studio backdrops and stands. Then I got a Hasselblad medium format film camera, a Nikon film camera and a Minolta film camera. I need more stuff though! I’m trying to get some more studio equipment. These words all sound like some shit from Star Trek to me, but… if you could pick one spot to shoot with any three skaters in the world, what’s the spot and who?
Well, good luck with it all. You got any last words or shout outs?
Thanks to anyone helping me out, my ‘rents for being cool, my girl Kiersyn for putting up with me dipping out to take photos all the time, you and all the other fools I hang with and all the Dominion dudes and guys I skate with. You all have helped me make this city my home. Go drink a PBR now!
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Everyone Is A Photographer A round table with photographers Ken Howard, Ian Graham, Cameron Lewis and David Kenedy. First, I would like to thank the four very talented people that spent their afternoon talking honestly about photography. I had some ideas floating in my head as to how this would go but it’s fun to be engaged with the conversation and go with it. The RVA Photo Issue has sprung from a focused curiosity, so what better way of ending it than getting some answers from people who live it. Thank you for reading. ----------First question, what is the best part about working in this town as a photographer? Ken Howard: For the record, my name is Ken. The best part about working in this town would have to be the sense of community; that would be my first reply to that question. The fact that when you’re doing something, you know that your friends and everyone else here is like a family of photographers that pretty much has your back. Within this community, unlike other places, we’re all willing to help each excel. If someone needs something, someone needs to borrow something; some lights, a camera, whatIan Graham, flickr.com/photos/thephotomonty
ever, we’re all willing to do it. We’re not, you know, egodriven, self-motivated individuals that are out only for their own purposes. We all wanna see everybody eventually get what they need to get done. And you don’t find that at any other place. Not any that I lived at. Ian Graham: I used your lights at my first big studio showing. It was Disrobed at Gallery5. I think I might’ve had like two busted speed flashes, and yeah, Ken lent me his – like fuckin’ $2000 worth of equipment. Just picked it up, did the shoot, dropped it off. Yeah, I gotta agree. Not to sound like too much of a dick, but there’s not a lot that’s great about working as a photographer in Richmond (laughs), because a lot of other markets have a lot more money and better paying clients. Um, I have found a lack of appreciation. Not from any of MY clients. I didn’t get hired by those people. But a lot of people around here don’t appreciate the finer arts. Especially when you’re doing like wedding photography out in the counties and stuff like that. There’s a lot of this like “how can you justify charging $1000 for taking pictures” and stuff like that. But photographers definitely watch out for each other. The appreciation part… it’s gotta be a struggle to do artistic work and sell it in this town. I think that’s a struggle for anyone, any artist. But what is the worst aspect of working in town? David? Or Cameron? Is it the money thing or what? Do you feel limited by working in Richmond? David Kenedy: I think it’s not so much an issue of being in Richmond, really. There are a million photographers around now, and it doesn’t matter where you go. I think
that Richmond having like a particular downside… I don’t really know. I think it’s really up to you. I think you could have just a difficult time working somewhere else as you could Richmond. Like if you worked in a bigger city you might get completely overwhelmed or you might be able to take advantage of being able to get more work. I think it just depends more on like the individual as opposed to really where you are. I mean, for me, it’s been great starting off in Richmond because it’s not TOO big a city, and there’s enough of sort of somebody who works in the underground music and culture. That stuff thrives here. I don’t know, I guess within Richmond there’s… you can make it happen. Especially with the Internet you can make it happen. If you really want to. There are opportunities everywhere. I think you bring up a good point. A lot of people start off in Richmond, but do you see yourself ending in Richmond? Cameron Lewis: I think that Richmond is a unique situation because you have VCU here, and as someone who did not go to VCU… I didn’t even go to school for photography. I was one of those people who got interested post education and started pursuing it. But it’s a unique situation because… will I end up here? I’m not sure. There’s so much competition within the school itself. My brother is a graphic design senior, and he’s competition for me, you know, as far as if I wanna do anything like design. That’s just another person that does what I do, and I’m sure there’s just enough people in the photography courses there. I don’t know, it’s weird ‘cause you start to get frustrated ‘cause you start to realize how many more people there are up and coming, younger, cheaper, and you know,
debatably equally talented. But I think I’d like to stay here, because I think Richmond is on a jumping off point. I think that Richmond is… I guess you could say that Richmond… Ken: It’s always on the edge of jumping off (laughs). I view Richmond in a lot of ways, as it’s a very launch pad type city. It’s a great place to get your teeth cut. You know? It’s a great place to get your education – if you choose to go that route and go through VCU. It’s a great place to do that. And to have a community – again – a community that supports art. Where you can have shows at coffee shops, at numerous places, at restaurants. Everybody will let you have a show. It’s a completely supportive community. In New York… I mean, I’ve lived in New York, and there’s a waiting list to have a picture in a bagel shop, you know. There’s a six-month waiting list. For me, having gone to New York and LA and experiencing the city feel to it, it’s humbling being in a place like Richmond and having the support structure that we have here. You’re not going to find that anywhere. When you’re somewhere else, you’re literally on your own. There’s no one giving you anything and you better… David:…have something to show for yourself. Ken: Yeah, an enormous amount of hustle. To the point where having a door shut in your face continuously doesn’t discourage you at all, and you keep going on. And you brush it off as soon as that door slams and head down the hall to the next one. But the great thing about here is that with the launching pad city, the people stay. I think Richmond in general, even for arts… I don’t know of any other place that has more of an entrepreneurial attitude. I mean, even with you owning the magazine, with Justin owning Kulture, with Johnny Yams what he does with Sticky Rice,
with Randy O’Dell and what he does with Mezzanine; hands down I can have a ton of friends who I can throw off the top of my head who are entrepreneurs. And again, in other places it would be so, so hard. Just the rent on a building would be too much, and they wouldn’t be able to do it. Cameron: In the same token it’s easy to complain about the size of Richmond. You can say, well Richmond’s too small; it’s too easy to get wrapped up in everyone’s situation. And whether it’s drama or what not, and it is, it’s extremely small, but you have to take that with a grain of salt because the grass is always greener. And being someone who… you know… I moved to the beach just to collect my thoughts, and that’s not necessarily a hub of any sort of creative activity. But it makes you appreciate what you have in a city like Richmond, because you go to all these other places and there’s nothing. And there’s always gonna be good people no matter where you go; and there’s always gonna be people who are driven and have creative desires, and who are extremely talented. But to find such a perfect blend of that in a small city where you CAN get to know a lot of people. You know, it’s like medium fish in a small bowl. It’s not that hard to become someone that’s recognized in Richmond. But it’s still difficult to be someone who’s extremely well known… making a living off of it. Ian: You can be recognized, but it’s hard to pay your rent. (Laughs.) Ken: That’s the thing. It’s great here. The nurturing and the support in the community is fantastic. I view it as Ken Howard
somewhat of a launching pad. If you ever wanna get past the apartment and a bike and struggling; if you ever wanna go, GO. You gotta go? Ken: I mean you just gotta go. (Laughs.) I mean the clients that are gonna pay you that money. If you’re gonna shoot a band, Rolling Stone calls you up to New York, that’s where you gotta go. I mean, you’re never gonna get that money. Tony, you told me this one time: no one’s gonna do anything for you. When it really comes down to it, especially being a selfstarter, especially if you’re just a photographer, just trying to make it. I think at some point photographers have to decide, how much of it do they want to be their job. It’s a life choice. Do you want this to be your job? What does it mean for you? Is it fun? Is it pleasure? David: Right. Is this a hobby? Is this something I wanna make money on the side with? How far do you wanna go. And I think in Richmond people tend to kind of, there’s a sort of flow; you never completely just go all out. Maybe people in Richmond don’t really just wanna crawl on everybody’s back just to get to the top and just live that lifestyle like some of the more fast-paced cities. Maybe people here are a little more content. It almost comes down to what is your life about in general. I mean, why are we even here at all? I think that, especially in this country in general, people get caught up on being successful.
Ian: If your goal is to be a commercially viably successful artist, this is not the right town for you. Cameron: I agree. Ken: Like if you are trying to end up in a three-story house with a two-car garage by painting or taking pictures, then you gotta get your ass out of Richmond. If you wanna have a good time doing it, if you wanna live a good honest simple life, Richmond’s the right spot. But, there are people that have come to Richmond that have made a good living. Another question: what makes a professional photographer? To be a professional, you have to be willing to put your self-esteem on the line. You have to live the lifestyle, because people that make that decision and say I’m going to be a photographer are taking a risk. I mean, you have got to stand up to the criticism of people looking at your work seriously with a critical eye. What are your thoughts on that, Ian? What makes a professional photographer? Is it a certain pay scale? Certain equipment you have? A certain mindset? Ian: I think certainly, that if you pay your bills by taking pictures that you are out of the gray zone. And there is definitely a large gray zone between an amateur and a professional. I qualify as both. I don’t pay every one of my bills by taking pictures but… …definitely more than a few. Ken: I was about to say; I was about to reiterate the being
able to pay your bills part. Bills are all subject to the lifestyle you’ve chosen. Now, if you’ve gone to school and got $30,000 in loans your bills are gonna be different, unless your loans are part of your rent. I paid my student loans and my rent, so now I’m doubling my rent. On that point, that’s why I have this mix of photographers, because you’re the only one here who has a degree in photography. Ken: Sons a bitches! (Laughs.) Formally, going to school… you know, I always look at school – and education in general – as subject to what you’re willing to put into it. I think that if you’re a decently educated person and you have a brain on you, you can go to school for anything. But I think the experience of school isn’t necessarily as much about the education as it is about the process. I mean, ‘cause you can get the education at the public library. You can go get a book on physics and learn everything you’re gonna learn in the same class. And there are people who have done that. The degree is just a piece of paper; it’s more about the experience of whatever you do. The mental wars that you have. Ken: Yeah, the people, the interactions you make. The being in a wet dark room at two in the morning, with a whole package of Ilford gels in front of an enlarger. Until you’ve been in front of a stop back and seen the image come out of paper, and it’s not on the back of your LCD, then it’s very physical. It uses all of your senses, your sight, your smell, your touching, your feeling. I mean, it’s why mov-
ies romanticize it. How they put a darkroom, and they got the guy in there doing prints still in movies. The romantic notion of you in a room alone.
Ken: Expensive wedding photographers never made as much as the most expensive fine art photographers who sold a single print for like $8 million dollars.
That aspect of what a professional photographer can be is so disillusioned, because it’s kinda like the same notion if you base your terms of success on wealth; because there’s always gonna be someone who has more money, has a nicer car, has a bigger thing. If you base it on equipment, again, someone’s always gonna have nicer stuff.
David: So, then that guy can look at the other guy and be like, “Oh, you’ve been shooting for 10 years and still haven’t made what I have in one. So, I’m more professional.” It’s so ambiguous.
Ian: Does everyone here think photography is a profession or is it a trade? That’s how I see it. I see photography as a trade. There are tools, there are techniques, there absolutely is a vast amount of technological knowledge that is required in order to be proficient in your field. And then everyone has their own little flavor; different houses are built different ways. Cameron: I think what makes it unique is that with photography, kind of getting back to the professional thing, you can shoot weddings and you can do commercial stuff, and you can make a lot of money off that. Or you can do fine art photography. And that kinda opens the room up. Are you a professional photographer if you’re taking abstract pictures? Do you have to sell a certain amount to be a professional? I know, lots of times I’ve shot my share of weddings. It brings in the bills. It’s not really what I enjoy doing. Shooting weddings is extremely frustrating sometimes and a stressful experience. A lot of things can go wrong. The term professional is kinda of gray. It’s very gray. I make money off my work. Do I make enough money to live? No.
Ian: Can you really compare like one to another? I guess that’s part of the distinction between a professional and a tradesman, or a professional and an artist. Because at the same time your house painter never makes the money that your architect does. Your house painter doesn’t make the same money that your portrait painter does.
Magnum’s definitely going to be like ok who are you? Like literally, bring me your life on paper. I mean, when you’re going into a place like Magnum you have expect that. On a freelance level, I don’t think there’s gonna be a client who’s like show me your credentials. Not until you walk into USA Today, Magnum Photos, or some big place where your gonna be like I want you to pay me a $100,000 year salary with benefits, I work for you. Then they’re probably going to be like all right, well…
And now they want to check your credentials.
Ian: I think more so than that, if you ever want to teach. That’s where I had this conversation with my cousin who has an MFA in fine arts photography, and she said that when she graduated with her MFA, she thought this is great. I have $80,000 something in debt and no one’s looking for abstract photography right now. But she’s actually paid off a lot of her debt, as far as I know, by teaching for years. And that’s the thing, if you got an MFA from a good photography school, you can walk in to any school that is trying to hire, and you’re there. Done. Oh, you got an MFA in photography from USC? Sure thing. Can you start on Monday? Here’s your class schedule.
David: Exactly.
Cameron: Here’s your salary with state benefits…
Ken: On a freelance scale it’d be like Einstein’s quote of “imagination is intelligence”. If your eye leads you down that road, then go for it. But if you were like good for Magnum photography, and I want to work for Magnum and be a Magnum staff photographer,
Ian: Yeah, state benefits, the whole nine yards. Then again, but we’re talking about not paying your bills by taking pictures. So, that’s the caveat. Yes, you can get a job. It’s not taking pictures.
If you are not college educated in the profession does that de-value your work at all? Or does it matter? David: I’m definitely just doing it for myself. I’m not trying to impress the industry in general, but it hasn’t really mattered so far. Nobody I have ever worked for has put me on the spot. The work speaks for itself. It’s more of an issue in situations where you’re an official photographer on a payroll, like if you’re working for a newspaper.
Ken: There are just so many roads you can walk down. I mean, one road you’re gonna need credentials and one road right next to it, you’re not. There’s some people who don’t even… well, I know damn well that are up in New York that are professionals who have all these professional assistants. They don’t even shoot. That’s all they do. They can tell you everything about your laptop, your camera, your lighting, everything about everything and never take a picture. They can actually take that picture in their mind with all the science they’ve got in it and never even have the image. They just have professional assistants. And for like 20 years all they’ve been doing is nothing but metering and color balancing and this and that. Ian: Shoot the white card. Last question, what is the value of photography when everyone is a photographer? Ken: It’s like being a DJ. (Laughs.) It was elevated and now… I was talking to Ian earlier today; it feels like now – more than ever – that anyone can buy their way into photography. Or Ian, you might be able to take a photo and get it in ten shots; a soccer mom could quite possibly do it in a thousand. You know, get that one shot by just continuing to take that photo. So what is the value of it? And going forward, how do you make yourself different from the people who are getting into it? Cameron: Obsession. I think becoming completely envelCameron Lewis, flickr.com/photos/cameroncharles
oped in the love of making images, completely dedicating yourself. If you wake up in the morning and driving down the street and looking at everything like you have a camera in your hands. It’s seeing that building or seeing that person or seeing that beautiful scene where something unique is happening and framing it. And that’s all you do. Ever. Every second of the day. I’m looking at you right now, and I can see the shot. I think that’s the difference. You look at everything and you value the beauty. And I think it enhances your life, and I think that if you look at it from that aspect that gives me value, because it makes my life better because I get to see things, things in different angles. And it’s strange, you know. I’ve always been into the arts even as a youngster, just making drawings in notebooks and stuff. It gets more advanced as you get older. As you look in to it more as your life, day-to-day stuff, every second of the day, it’s beautiful. Because even the terrible things, you can see the beauty in that. And if something awful happens, you can say hey, I can capture this moment. You look at someone who captures events that are awful but at the same time are beautiful. I think that gives me the drive, and that’s what makes it worthwhile. That’s really the obsession. It’s letting your work kind of validate who you are in communication. What do you think of that David? I know it’s a big question. But I mean, with everybody being able to buy their way in to it, it really, the price… it’s like writers, too. Writers and filmmakers are suffering, and photographers, too; they’re all suffering the same.
Ken: Designers. (mumbles) Designers, too. Ian: Everyone can download Photoshop. How do you fight against that? David: I know what you mean by saying everyone’s buying into it. Cameras are getting cheaper. The megapixel count is getting higher and blah, blah. But I mean really, photography is just the tool. You’re essentially just using it as a tool in order to convey something. Cameron: It’s a vehicle of obsession. David: Exactly. So, really photography and the equipment and people buying whatever they can buy, it’s still… what are they trying to say? Ken: They’re gonna be soulless. What are they trying to say? David: Exactly. If they have nothing to say, and they’re not being honest about what they’re trying to say, then that devalues any kind of photography they are trying to do. We all probably know someone who just runs around saying they’re photographers, but really I can’t figure out what they’re trying to say. It’s more like they’re into the idea of ‘photography’ than really trying to convey something. So, I think that, you know, more people having cameras and more people are
getting into it. I think it’s fine. I think it’s a good thing. I think if everyone had a camera and was taking pictures 24/7, then me as an image lover, that would be OK with me. Ken: Yeah, I think it’s just separation of identity. Relying on talent, not marketing or promotion. You know? I mean, you might sell more records, but that doesn’t mean you’re better than me. Step into my world and I’ll knock you out. It’s the same type of thing. I mean, you might be able to do whatever and snap a shot, but do you have an identity? Does your eye – see? If everybody’s shooting, everybody’s gonna see it. Right? Everybody’s a little minnow in the sea. That’s the way I look at it, like everybody’s a DJ, everybody’s a photographer now. It’s like, all right, let everyone go to Best Buy and buy a camera, and they can all walk out and take pictures and put ‘em all up on a wall, and they’ll come all to just start blending into one big sea. The one that… I think for me, personally, the success of any of that wall is the one that stands out that doesn’t look like the rest of them. And that’s the person I wanna talk to. And I’m probably gone be more thrilled to find out that they shot it on like a Pentax K1000. And the reason I’ve completely, the reason it’s become interesting to me is there’s grain structure in it, instead in the beginning it just looks like a flat digital image. And I’m like oh my God, because the aesthetic, that’s wants pleasing to me. I don’t think there’s gonna be any problem with photographers being able to separate themselves from would-be photographers. Ian: I’ve had other photographers talking about how terrible it is to show up to a gig and you’ve got like an
amateur – like my uncle just bought a DSLR. I mean, I’ve shot on gigs where someone has a rig that cost ten times what I do. Every time I come to that situation I think it’s an advantage, because I find someone who’s on my gig who understands photography and can appreciate how hard it can be sometimes. You’re saying any housewife can afford a DSLR now. She can afford a hammer, but she can’t build a house. She can afford a car, but she can’t win the Le Mans. She can afford a DSLR, but she can’t get the same shots I do. What’s the difference? Yeah, maybe she can go to that soccer game and get one good picture, but at the same time I could get forty. I’ll put my photo skills against any housewife in this city! (Laughs.) Ken: Yeah, again, I mean I think that’s just what I was trying to say. Its just separation of identity. That’s all it is. Cameron: You can’t fake who you are. David: Yeah, you have to be honest. Ken: All of us sitting here are creative types. If we were all to say fine, we take on the same assignment, we’re all probably gonna approach it in a different manner. And I think that a photographer’s identity will not be stripped away by the fact that things are being readily available with, you know, digital scanners and cameras and stuff like that. I think that what it’s gonna do is gonna push the boundaries even harder. Make it even more interesting. I was talking to Adam Wayland who shoots and does stuff for Virginia Film Society. Since college he’s only owned a camera with a 150mm lens, and that’s his aesthetic. You know, he’s like, I don’t rely on lens….
David Kenedy, flickr.com/photos/acemcmanagan
Cameron: Yeah, I think that’s what we’re all saying. That we’re all gonna be fine, because those people – it doesn’t matter – those people can jump in at any stage they want,
regardless of how readily available it is to them, and we’re all gonna be fine because those people… they’re not us. Ian: And this argument has been made every time there has been a major advancement in technology. Like when photographers switched from using glass plates to actual flexible film. It’s the death of photography! The amateur can claim a profession now. And then it would start getting into a roll and you had to change it every time. It’s the death of professional photography! And the shit you heard when 35mm came around was that there is no point in taking pictures, ‘cause you can just shoot and shoot and shoot and every chicken, every blind chicken will get a kernel, or however the statement goes. And digital makes that even more complicated. Digital: because everyone can shoot in bulk. It makes the value of a single good shoot increase so much more. Because soccer mom can go to the soccer meet all day long, shoot a thousand pictures and I know how to arrange depth of field, so I could shoot once! And top every shot she took. Well, hopefully we won’t have to setup a contest to figure that out. (Laughs.) David: I’ll second Ian’s comment and bet that everyone here can beat an average soccer mom. Cameron: A cougar shoot! (Laughs.) Ian: I threw down one gauntlet this week, so I can’t be doing another challenge now. (Laughs.) Okay, well thanks fellas for coming out and talking with me. That’s it.
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