Salty Magazine Vol 1

conversations with the world’s top culinary artists

salty raw. unfiltered. candid.

The Roca Brothers:

A Family Affair Disfrutar:

The DNA of elBulli Corey Lee:

Food is a Reflection

of Culture

vol. 1

STYLISH & LUXURY HOTEL IN THE HEART OF BARCELONA

Monument Hotel 5* GL, a modern and luxurious hotel located in the heart of the emblematic Paseo de Gracia, the most elegant shopping street in Barcelona, as well as the core of the city’s tourist, cultural and business life.

The hotel is housed in an imposing mansion of neo-Gothic inspiration, the Enric Batlló House, which was built between 1895 and 1896.

Monument Hotel features 84 stunning rooms and suites with an elegant and chic style, designed to offer maximum comfort and a luxury experience.

Gastronomy is one of Monument Hotel’s main commintments. The Hotel features two restaurants - Lasarte *** and Oria * under the gastronomic direction of Martín Berasategui, the Spanish chef with 10 Michelin stars.

Passeig de Gràcia 75 08008 Barcelona. Spain T. (+34) 935 482 000 info@monumenthotel.com www.monumenthotel.com

A global gastro embassy specializing in culinary diplomacy, exclusive dinner parties, star chef world tours, cultural marketing, filmmaking, and entrepreneurism.

The core expertise is in brand management and PR of gourmet restaurants and star chefs, but also of resorts, châteaux, and food festivals.

Creator of Dining Impossible and the San Sebastián Dinner Series, as well as the 2016 Diego Muñoz Exploration and 2017 Kamila Seidler Expedition. Culinary Producer of “Michelin Stars – Tales from the Kitchen”.

Daily serving partnerships in Copenhagen, Paris, Vienna, Madrid, San Sebastián, Moscow, Macau, New York City, Mexico City, Lima, and La Paz.

www.bon-vivant.dk

Low Food Symposium How to create food culture?

On 13 January 2019 we will celebrate all wonderful and successful initiatives that have sprung up in recent years and we are offering a platform for new and promising developments. We would like to show the world that some great things are happening in the Netherlands. For this purpose we will introduce the Low Food Symposium in Amsterdam, an annual event where we will bring together Dutch food pioneers, so they can be inspired by and learn from pioneers in other parts of the world.

Ask a Dutchy about Dutch food culture and he will tell you about snert (our famous slow-cooked pea soup) or our stamppot (veggies mixed through mashed potatoes). Ask someone abroad and they will likely stare at you blank-faced or some of them might mention Gouda cheese or stroopwafels, and that’s probably it.

Dutch food culture has been suffering from a lack of self-esteem, but there’s no reason for this. In recent years a new generation of passionate food professionals has emerged, who have quietly been making significant changes to the Dutch food and restaurant scene. Farmers have changed course and have started focusing on quality instead of quantity. Food producers and artisans are committed to offering high quality products and ingredients, and the Dutch government is helping to facilitate innovation.

All the ingredients for a revival of the Dutch food culture are here, and Dutch gastronomy is on the verge of a revolution. A revolution that will change the Netherlands from a simply agricultural country to a country that is celebrating its food culture and gastronomy. But also a revolution where chefs pick up their kitchen knives, farmers their pitchforks and government officials their pens, and proudly show the world what the Netherlands have to offer.

LOW FOOD SYMPOSIUM January 13 2019 | 1 to 5 pm www.lowfood.nl Auditorium Rijksmuseum Museumstraat 2, Amsterdam With among others: Claus Meyer (from. Nordic Cuisine en restaurant Noma), Kamilla Seidler (chef, activiste, Latin America’s Best Female Chef 2016), Martin Scholten (Director Animal Science Group, Wageningen UR), Joris Lohman (founder Food Hub), Joris Bijdendijk (RIJKS restaurant) & Samuel Levie (founder Food Cabinet).

salty Editor in Chief Geeta Bansal

Managing Editor Tarun Bansal Layout Editor Matthew Pagano Associate Editor Lilibeth Garcia

Social Media Hanh Kim Truong

Contributing Photographers Adrià Goula, Alfonso Calza, Coconut, David Ruano, Eric Wolfinger, Francesc Guillamet, Jose Lopez, Mariah Tauger, Michael Simkin, Pelut i Pelat, White Kitchen

Salty Magazine 1133 Camelback St. Suite 11985 Newport Beach, CA 92658 www.thesaltymag.com @thesaltymag_

Subscription and advertising inquiries: thesaltymag@gmail.com

© Salty Ltd. All rights reserved. Editorial material and opinions expressed in Salty Magazine do not necessarily reflect the views of Salty Ltd. Salty Magazine and Salty Ltd. cannot be held responsible for any inaccuracies or errors and do not accept responsibility for the advertising content. All contents are strictly copyright and all rights are reserved. Production in whole or in part is prohibited without prior permission from Salty Ltd. © Salty Magazine. All rights reserved.

Here’s to New Beginnings A magazine is not a straightforward proposition. Nonetheless, with Salty Magazine my intent is to present straightforward, honest conversations and narratives that are relatable to the global culinary fraternity. As a novice in this field of magazine publishing, and lacking prior experience in such a venture, I am only fueled by my passion for gastronomy and a vision of providing a platform to share the stories of all those who live, eat, and breathe this industry.

After years of contributing to several major publications, I have realized that these conversations, disclosures, and reflections that have so piqued my interest may interest you as well. The heavily edited 8001200-word features in the media usually contain information that is out there already, or merely regurgitate press releases. In my never-ending travels, I’ve interacted with chefs, cooks, winemakers, sommeliers and hospitality professionals who often speak about changing the direction of food journalism and their desire to express their thoughts in their own words. In the course of these interactions, I’ve been inspired to provide a platform for them to do just that. As Chef Alex Atala said best: “[Salty Magazine] will be a place where chefs can really talk.”

If you are curious to know more beyond the viral food photos and Instagram stories that disappear before they have a chance to sink in, you will be inspired by the struggles, failures, successes, and words of wisdom our subjects share.

In forthcoming issues, we hope to publish features contributed by many others who have inspired me.

Having spent my last three decades in the company of some of the best in this industry, I find myself compelled to share the stories and thoughts of those that have impacted the world of food, especially with the younger generation of culinary professionals.

In some ways, my relationships with and respect for many of these greats have made them an important part of my life and steered me in this direction. My hope is to help bridge the gaps between cultures and generations and build a community.

As a cancer survivor, I live each day believing there is not a moment to spare, so here it goes.

Enjoy the ride.

Geeta Bansal Founder & Editor-in-Chief

FOREWORD Years ago, I was interviewed by Geeta for the first time‌ or was I? To my surprise, I realized I was not being interviewed.

Instead I found myself deep in conversation with someone who saw the culinary world with endless curiosity and awe.

This is what makes each conversation with her so different and unique, together with her incredible ability to put you at ease. Vibrant but insightful, kind but strong, she is a relentless traveler with a rich palate, solid culinary knowledge, and an intelligent gaze that views the culinary scene from a truly authentic point of view.

Over the years I have found that, more than an insightful journalist and a seasoned chef, she is a visionary. She envisions a culinary world that trespasses limits, moves the heart, and changes the world. Any conversation with her makes you aware of her unique perspective and her desire to bring that vision closer to reality.

Salty Magazine is the culmination of her endeavors to foster relationships within the culinary fraternity through the exchange of ideas and concepts.

With this publication, Geeta and the Salty team have made a great leap in the culinary realm, and it is only the beginning.

I am honored to be a part of this endeavor, as it is a vision I, too, believe in.

Joan Roca Executive Chef, El Celler De Can Roca

salty 01 The Roca Brothers: A Family Affair 09 Joan Roca: Transparency and Honest Stories 21 Josep Roca: Wine is a Bottled Landscape 29 Jordi Roca: Dreaming, Provoking, & Playing 37 Quique Dacosta: Perfection is, in Essence, a Utopia 59 Corey Lee: Food is a Reflection of Culture 77 Elena Arzak: The Family Legacy 90 Eduard Xatruch, Oriol Castro, and Mateu Casañas of Disfrutar: The DNA of elBulli 114 Dave Beran: An Evolving Dialogue in Santa Monica, California 128 René Frank: It’s About Happiness at CODA, the Dessert-Only Restaurant in Germany 141 New Openings

The Roca Brothers

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The Roca Brothers A Family Affair

by Geeta Bansal

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The Roca Brothers

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hree Roca brothers form a formidable team at the three-Michelin-starred El Celler de Can Roca restaurant in the historical city of Girona, Spain. The pinnacle of modern Spanish cuisine, the avantgarde restaurant is led by chef Joan Roca i Fontané with the help of world-renowned sommelier, Josep, and the youngest of the clan, Jordi, the celebrated pastry chef. The location at Can Sunyer, originally a country house, was remodeled in 2007 with a modernistic aesthetic to accommodate the present restaurant’s expansive kitchens, dining rooms and gardens. The kitchen windows overlook the picturesque courtyard entrance to the restaurant, offering a peek into the preparations for the lunch and dinner services.

50-plus team members, still go across the street every day for an afternoon meal cooked by the matriarch of the family. Their work ethic comes from their parents, who are still working actively well into their eighties. Gender equality in the family is evident as well; most of the women in the family, including the matriarch, support the family enterprises, while some have a career outside the family business. The youngest, Alejandra, also a pastry chef, works alongside her husband Jordi in expanding the burgeoning Rocambolesc Gelataria empire, while Josep’s wife Encarna heads their catering and banqueting divisions.

Joan’s wife, Anna Payet, will soon be managing Casa Cacao, a small boutique hotel, her dream project.

The original restaurant opened in 1986 next to their parent’s bar on the outskirts of Girona. In 2007 it was moved to its current location, but the brothers, along with their

The restaurant has set an industry standard with its exemplary hospitality rooted in a close-knit family culture, illustrated by the symbolic ‘R’ on the façade with its

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The Roca Brothers

three shoots representing each of the three brothers. The restaurant has been a family operation since its inception, and the creative processes at the restaurant are the result of three minds working together in harmony.

The triplicate theme is also reflected in the triangular glass-walled dining room and the three-sided enclosed garden in the middle of the space, which at first glance appears to be a living art installation, changing with the seasons from fallen leaves in autumn to a green canopy in summer.

The complex cuisine pays homage to the kitchen’s Catalan roots—the region, its history, politics and products. The intricate techniques used in their kitchen highlight the philosophies of creation, innovation, memory, wine, theory, chromaticism, poetry, magic, perfume, and arts; all the while, an undercurrent of humor keeps things light. In El Somni, a short film produced in 2014, the three brothers shared the creative genius of 40 international artists in the form of an opera based on a dinner they orchestrated. The epicurean opera, realized as a twelve-course feast (including a breathing ice cream for dessert), earned them the designation of “Madcap Spanish Superchefs” from the Condé Nast Traveler.

Among the 12 lucky diners in attendance at the exclusive multimedia extravaganza the film documents: Chef Ferran Adrià of elBulli fame, who Joan Roca lists as his major inspiration (along with his mother). Josep Roca, the cambrer de vins, tasted 250 wines before deciding on the 12 that were served eventually, a testament to the rigor of the brothers’ endeavor for perfection. This year, Hollywood also beckoned, with an invitation to wow celebrity guests at Elton John’s annual Oscar dinner party.

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El Celler de Can Roca has over the years been bestowed with many accolades, voted #1, #2 and in 2018 #3 on the World’s 50 Best Restaurants list, as well as La Liste and countless others. It has made its place in the history of cuisine. Ratings and placements on lists may come and go, but the genius of the trio is undeniable.

The modernistic cuisine also has undertones of nostalgia: a cut-out of the brothers in their childhood home served as the backdrop to the Memories of a Bar in Girona course in the last season. The well-staffed research kitchen is the crucible for complex techniques that constantly set the culinary world on edge and are notoriously “borrowed” by peers.

The techniques are often shared at culinary events, as well as in their books, including Joan’s Sous-Vide Cuisine, Jordi’s Casa Cacao, Josep’s Tras las viñas, and their newest, the jointly authored Distilling Scotland.

The brothers are actively involved in philanthropy, not only in their immediate community, but also globally. Since 2016, they’ve served as the UNDP Goodwill Ambassadors supporting the Sustainable Development Goals in their mission to minimize the gargantuan problems of hunger, climate change, unemployment, and equality by 2030. They work on the field in Nigeria to share and teach sustainable food practices as well as to prevent food waste, and they often speak about it as a humbling experience that helps ground them. They recycle everything at their three-star restaurant; broken glass and wooden boxes appear in new guises as glassware and stools set by tables to hold female guests’ pricey bags. My favorite memory from my recent visit is of the flatware designed by a sixyear-old from their hometown; if that does not evoke a smile, then the colorful dessert trolley around the corner certainly will.

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The Roca Brothers

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Joan Roca

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Joan Roca Transparency and Honest Stories

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ne afternoon, sitting in the peaceful sun-dappled courtyard garden of El Celler de Can Roca with Chef Joan Roca, we reflected on recent events and conversations in the industry. The serenity and dignity of this highly-esteemed chef, so loved by all those who come into contact with him, was contagious.

It has been a privilege to know him and share observations and experiences, not to forget the lighter moments. When I likened the annual shuffle of the top five chefs in one of the well-known lists to the Game of Thrones, he laughed at the suggestion of a possible photo op with the chefs on “alternate” thrones, and said he was going to share that with his friends. He does have a great sense of humor!

All the Roca brothers studied at the Girona Culinary School. Always inseparable, even as Joan worked and traveled with Spanish chefs such as Ferran Adrià and Santi Santamaria, he made sure to stay close to the family and his hometown of Girona.

He has a close bond with his mother Montserrat and grandmother Angeleta Roca, both of whom he credits for his early interest in the kitchen.

Chef Roca has an enviable commute to work from his living quarters directly above the restaurant. There he resides with his wife Anna, son Marc (who has chosen to follow

him into the kitchen), daughter Marina, and the family dog, Jack, who was ready to jump into our conversation at any given moment from the rooftop garden.

Anna, a professor of tourism, feels pretty fortunate that she can just walk down the backstairs and into the restaurant kitchen when she returns home from work. She has the luxury of deciding what she wants for dinner from one of the top restaurants in the world, a restaurant at which mere mortals can only hope to snag a reservation if luck favors them. Anna, who knows him best, says, “Joan is a family man and very true to his origins. He is a hard worker, persevering, and a perfectionist. His life revolves around gastronomy and he admires and deeply respects his brothers.”

We tossed around the need for a food forum limited to a small, intimate group of people invested and working in the hospitality industry to enable real conversations on pertinent issues. On the subject of the stresses of working in the restaurant industry, a subject that was amplified by Bourdain’s recent passing, he said, “It’s not easy to talk about these things, yet it is very important to address them. I agree that we need to change the context of the conversation and reflect and talk about these issues openly.”

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Joan Roca Later, as we laughed over the pervasiveness of social media in the food culture, Chef Roca said, “Even though social media gives a voice to all chefs, not all take advantage of it or pay attention to the content shared, and content is very important. The attention is momentary anyway, and the worry is about this disconnect from reality. The heart is gone from gastronomy and it’s becoming all about clicks and likes.”

In conversation with Joan Roca: Since you live above the restaurant, do you work at home, or live at your place of work?

For me the restaurant is a way of living. I work at home, as I live on the top of my kitchen to be as much time as possible connected to my work that is for me a source of fulfillment.

This way I can live it with intensity and connection, and do it next the ones I love the most, my family, and even being able to open my house to all the people that come to visit this restaurant, my home, from all over the world.

Spain has a concentration of very talented chefs and cooks compared to many other parts of the world. What is unique about the Spanish culture that it generates so much talent?

I would say that on the one hand, there is gastronomic talent that converges with a great gastronomic tradition and is enhanced by the excellence, and on the other, there is the diversity of our ingredients and produce.

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At the recent chef talks at the Basque Culinary Center in Spain during the World’s 50 Best events, you spoke about your work with the Farm Africa project. Why Africa, and where else on your travels have you seen the need where chefs can make a change?

Africa is a continent with a large scale of migratory movements, and in its simplest form, Africa needs to modernize its food systems. This modernization needs to happen at a rapid pace, so people won’t starve, diseases won’t spread, and people won’t be forced to make tough decisions that threaten to destabilize the region. But it is the whole globe that needs to make a change. According to the UN, we need to increase global food production by fifty percent by 2050 to feed the nearly 9 billion people that will live on our planet. Africa, with its vast natural resources and human capacity, could be a way to get there.

Salty Magazine Do you enjoy working with other chefs when you join them events or four-hands experiences?

It is an enriching exchange of knowledge, points of view, and observing the unique ways of working of each cook. It always leads to a relationship full of complicity and friendship that we have amongst us and we enjoy it very much doing this. The truth is that I cannot join in these kind of experiences very often as my agenda does not allow me to do it, and on the other hand, being at the restaurant to receive the guests that come to visit us is very important for me. That’s why when we decided to go on the World Tours we did in summer, when the restaurant as closed. Luckily I can count on my brothers when I travel,who stay at the restaurant if I am traveling. Having them is an advantage that allows me to live with a lot of confidence.

Should forums like chef talks and symposiums raise and discuss real issues in the restaurant industry in order to better educate prospective or existing chefs and restaurant operators?

At the recent Chefs Talks held during the 50 Best events, did it appear that chefs were only promoting themselves and their projects?

It is true, but that is what 50 Best demands from the chefs. I agree that chefs need to take charge. We definitely need to change this conversation, especially when we are in the position to do so.

What advice would you give to young chefs about connecting with their immediate community?

Use common sense.  Face your responsibility, as it is necessary to live together according to your community’s needs. A cuisine is connected to its environmental surroundings, its economic, cultural and social environments as well. It is a natural relationship that, if properly cared for, benefits all the parts. As cooks, we do have a responsibility that we can see as an opportunity to improve lives around the globe. All these systems: natural, economic, social and cultural, echo what we eat.

They do, and we can even talk more about these issues and improve even more such forums that are already a good and convergent agora. We the chefs are already on that path, I feel.

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Joan Roca

You have said cooking is cultural, yet many menus across the board reference outside influences, so which culture do they eventually represent?

You cook from your cultural lived reality, from your roots, but you can also get to know and experience cuisines from some other places, that have their own roots. These new experiences take root in your memories once you have tasted them thereby expanding your psychological palate library.

They are the new branches in your life and knowledge tree, keeping your roots strong in the basement.

I do not think we will lose the authenticity of food over time. I have learnt on my travels that there are numerous chefs around the world who are cooking based on their culture, environment, roots and local culture.

Since you travel extensively, what do you visualize as a major change in restaurant operation or cooking over the next decade?

I feel it is important for chefs to travel.

There is a strong trend in the direction of a cuisine characterized by cooks who aim to find the place where they are in touch with the environment and things that are real and true to them. Our planet is facing a big challenge with depleting food resources, and this will become the focus of cooks and kitchens. It will be more than the current awareness or a romantic notion, but more of an urgency resulting in a sensibility to this cause and a solidarity amongst us to combat hunger. I foresee cooks becoming involved in big campaigns and projects to deal with hunger. If you ask any cook or chef to support these issues, the chefs are liable to give an affirmative response even before learning the details. It is in the DNA of chefs to be sensitive and to stand in solidarity.

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“I foresee cooks becoming involved in big campaigns and projects to deal with hunger. It is in the DNA of chefs to be sensitive and to stand in solidarity.“ Fine dining is changing all over the world, so are there any upcoming changes at El Celler? Are the white tablecloths there to stay?

Tablecloths precisely are not going to change. We like the comfort feeling they give, their touch sensitivity, their slight sonority. They are very interesting from a sensory point of view: a white and perfect background where stories can be told.

What are the most difficult aspects of maintaining a three-star fine dining restaurant?

The focus must be maintained on keeping the fire of passion alive when the rest has been accomplished. It is done by realizing every day that you are lucky to be doing what you wanted to do.

Recently, chefs like Sébastian and Michel Bras decided to turn in their three Michelin stars. Is this something we are going to see more of, and why do you think it’s happening?

Each case depends on a series of circumstances, and if you consider deeply all of them you find they are very reasonable.

Personally, I don’t think this is a general tendency; in our case we don’t consider it.

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Joan Roca What kind of cuisine do you look for on your travels? One that is region- or culture-specific, or a kind of universal cuisine without definite roots in any culture?

When I travel, I like visiting the streets to understand how people eat, as well as the markets, actively trying to submerge myself into the culture of each place. In Mexico, China, Thailand or Japan, there are many interesting culinary cradles apart from my own in Spain.

There are phases when one cuisine takes prominence over another. It was French, then Spanish, Peruvian, Nordic, and now the New Nordic.

Which cuisine has exerted the most lasting influence?

This prominence is mediacreated prominence in any case. We must relativize these sudden media spotlights to be fair, as all over the globe there are many different spots of talent, in many different cultures with important gastronomies that could be out of the focus or neglected. If we want to learn, we must keep our eyes open to both what media points at, as a possibility of discovering, but also explore out of its box.

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Salty Magazine What is your opinion about New Nordic cuisine? Which restaurants or chefs have you visited in that region?

How advantageous has having your own family as a team been for the success of El Celler?

Well, the New Nordic Manifesto dates from 2004, doesn’t it? I see the movement as a natural consequence of the evolution of cookery from Ferran’s technological revolution to the revolution of the natural products, as a dialectical balance movement that we like to integrate with harmony in our place. It shares with some other cuisines in time or geography the homage to local produce and the reverence to the natural landscape. It sees an opportunity in gastronomy to promote the territory.

Sustainability is also a very important and key message that should be spread all over the world, using the accent of every local place on the globe. And good news: it’s being done.

Very definitive. Working with family has many advantages of confidence and complicity. I think it’s also been good for us that each of the brothers masters one discipline, which completes a 180-degree triangle from where we can offer a very special, almost total, experience to our guests. Sharing responsibility has also been a big advantage.

Are there instances when you three disagree, and who has the last word? Does your being the eldest let you have the final word?

We dialogue about absolutely everything. All decisions are agreed by the three of us; we work as a team. We don’t know how it would be working in a different way, but this way has worked very well for us.

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Joan Roca

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Salty Magazine With the glamorization of chefs and kitchens, what are some elements being lost in the competitive race for recognition?

Success is an opportunity, and one has to learn how to take advantage of it from his or her own ethos. It comes with a big responsibility towards society once the microphone is in front of you.

Do restaurant kitchens train interns and stagiaires to pass on knowledge, or, more specifically, carry their own message forward? Do chefs keep all the attention to themselves instead of putting the young chefs’ talents in the spotlight?

Both things are important, a transmission of knowledge to the younger generation, but more importantly, also the values. I feel if we pay equal attention to all members of the team, they will be more invested and feel part of the process.

Have your and Josep’s sons begun working actively in the kitchen now?

“Cuisine is a wide universe where everybody is free, as in art, to express and create their way.”

They are both working since summer in the development of a project called “Mother Cuisine.” In this project, we recover and research the traditional recipes of Catalan cuisine and also my mother’s recipes. It’s a fantastic training for them. A new book will be the final result.

Are ethics and a moral code essential for a cook to maintain authenticity in their cuisine?

Authenticity itself should be a moral motto.

We think our guests deserve transparency and honest stories. But cuisine is a wide universe where everybody is free, as in art, to express and create their way. We all work to make changes that improve cuisine as a whole.

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Joan Roca Is it healthy for restaurant owners or chefs to open new projects as soon as one becomes successful?

Could that be a contributing factor to the short life span of restaurants?

Are there too many lists and rating systems in the world? Do they tend to inform diners or confuse them at this point?

We will always keep moving—and that is what we are doing—around the world. Last year, we focused on improving the working conditions of our team, and we created a double shift in the kitchen. Both of our head chefs were expecting additions to their family at the same time, and we felt that they, and in fact, all team members, should be able to have more personal time. Now all members of our staff are on an eight-hour shift, allowing them to have more family time. This year, we will continue our indoor humanist revolution, toning up our creative muscle before taking a new leap beyond. We feel bold, ready for it.

No, as much there are, the more the better, as each of them is seen in a different light, and there are many different kinds of guests.

It is positive, I feel, this existence of different visions and outlooks that we have nowadays in gastronomy.

Do you feel that you acquire more confidence as a chef with age and experience and can take more revolutionary steps, while as a young chef you were scared to break away from the pack?

The five-piece starter at El Celler is a reflection of your international travels. Are you working on the next season’s version? Will it represent any Spanish regions?

Both me and my brothers have always been quite non-conformists, since the moment we decided to cook in a different way than the way our parents did in their restaurant.

For me, this attitude of taking new steps is minimally related to the age and more related to the spirit of each chef. From courage you can create things that are much more interesting. Working with my brother Jordi, who belongs to a generation different from mine, and sharing with him different creative approaches, has always been enriching in both directions.

It’s probably true. In our case, we only have one restaurant, and we want it to be exclusive and authentic. There’s only one El Celler de Can Roca.

[Laughing] It will be a surprise.

What was your experience when you were invited to cook for Elton John’s Oscar party in Los Angeles this year?

Elton is a great guy; he organizes that event every year for solidarity funding. It was an extraordinary experience for us. L.A. hosts and guests were very open-minded to our gastronomic proposal, welcoming and thankful. We felt like we were at home.

You spoke recently about your decision to travel more within Spain, as opposed to touring the world as in previous years. What are the upcoming projects this year?

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Are you happy with where you are in your career and life?

I’m happy in my personal and professional moment, and I feel very thankful for that. I’m able to live and work with my family, as my past generations did, and this is something that balances this demanding profession of being a chef....

What keeps me happy is feeling that I’m loved.

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Josep Roca

Josep Roca Wine is a bottled landscape

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osep Roca, world-renowned sommelier and middle brother in the famed Roca trio, has a passion for hospitality embedded in his DNA. His interest in wine developed at a very early age while helping in the family bar after school. The cellar in the basement beckoned every day, and playtime amongst the bottles of wines and spirits eventually became a lifelong calling.

Now the cellar he curates at El Celler de Can Roca has over 3,400 wines and 60,000 bottles, which allow unique pairings with the dozen or more courses, carefully selected based on his own reading of personalities and diners’ preferences.

He is the first point of contact for guests at the restaurant, and his front-of-house team, which includes six sommeliers, excels in creating a world class experience for diners. Recognition of his work earned the

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brothers The Ferrari Trento Art of Hospitality Award in 2017. Josep believes sincerity is an important element of hospitality—a lesson learnt early on by the brothers from their working-class parents which accounts for their ability to keep their feet on the ground. Josep prefers the designation of a waiter over that of a glorified sommelier.

However, the title of author is his for the taking due to an exceptional book on wine, Tras las viñas, he published in 2016.

He is adept at sharing his passion for wine not only in the dining rooms of El Celler de Can Roca, but also through speaking and lecturing on the subject at gastronomic events around the world. The attitude of the staff in the restaurant flows from the top down, and for Josep, it’s all about caring and looking after people with a generosity that comes straight from the heart.

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Josep Roca Is there a story in each glass of wine?

Wine is a bottled landscape, a way to revitalize time, a fascinating human landscape that converses with nature. The story of each glass of wine can be what you want to see in it. I see life in its wideness and fullness.

I’m interested in what lies beyond the glass— the place, the people, the reason for any of the decisions made in its process, without forgetting what may be often due to natural effects, climate conditions, as well as human conditioning gestures.

What is the best way to enjoy wine?

With food or on its own?

Wine is the most intellectual beverage that we can drink. It comes from far, from an ancient culture, from our old customs and manners, from our liturgy and with a value of sharing. There are wines that do not need a solid company. By themselves, they deserve their own time and attention, even in a social context, maybe of celebration. But the joyful pleasure of pairing wine and food is related with gastronomy at its highest level, where wine culture and food culture come together.

In your dining room, you are very accomplished at putting guests at ease, so is it okay for wine directors or sommeliers to patronize guests with their superior knowledge as often happens in fine dining?

We all have the need to feel cared for, listened to, loved. Yes, you are right, we need to manage and be aware of vanity—not the customer’s vanity, but ours.

Your credit your enology professor, Josep Lluís Pérez Verdú, for your early education in wine. After that period, who has influenced you most in the world of wine?

He taught me to understand that we must question always ourselves, start the journey with doubts and with curiosity to amplify knowledge. In every visit to a cellar, each

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contact with a person that lives for and feels the Earth, you receive precious life lessons. My brothers have also influenced me by allowing wine to also make its way to the kitchen. We have also grown up in this particular transversal and fraternal path.

Do you remember the first time you tasted wine or alcohol?

I was five years old. It was mixed with siphon soda, in a small metallic flan mold. At that time, I played a game that involved filling up the wine bottles at the cellar located in the basement of my parents’ bar. I loved that smell when I accidentally poured the wine on my clothes.

El Celler has become a top restaurant in the world, not only for its food but for your curating of one of the most comprehensive cellars in the world. Does that put pressure on you and the way you work?

It will never be a pressure, but an opportunity to accompany the people of wine in the best way we can, to feel like the wine ambassadors of so many people behind the wine that I admire.

According to you, how much does the front-of-house hospitality and wine service influence the total dining experience?

Hospitality is as essential as naturality and generosity. The guest needs to feel listened to, cared for, and loved. Without a dance of emotions with empathy, the experience is not complete. It is not just a service of dishes—it is a close up of gestures, both verbal and non-verbal: the tone, the color, the voice, the silence, the words. Revolution in gastronomy is now in the dining room.

It is a humanist revolution, a sensitive one that sets the client in the center of all energies, connections, and attention. They are the people in the center of gastronomy, the ones before the product and before the technique. From our “sala maravillosa” we have started this movement a while ago.

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Josep Roca Your book Tras las viñas told the story of 12 wine makers from around the world. Is there another book in the works, or are you contemplating writing one? If so, what would be the subject?

I am compiling our last years’ work with wine so as to write a new book on wine inside the cuisine of El Celler de Can Roca.

Since you co-wrote that book with a psychologist, is there a certain psychological approach to wine or the reason that palates differ so much?

I have always been interested in wine through the people that elaborate on it. This philosophical approach from the dialogue between the human being and the forces of nature through wine is what interests me the most. Wine looks a lot like the person that makes it, and so often the person who drinks it looks a lot like the wine he or she is drinking.

What is your opinion on natural wines? Do you think their appearance on wine lists and wine programs is a fad, or will it last?

I advocate loading ourselves with awareness and emo-ecological consciousness in the world of wine. I support the movements for minimal intervention in both the vineyards and the elaboration process. I take a chance for the diversity and authenticity, and I want to be an ambassador of acoustic wines, full of feelings and a sense of belonging to a concrete place.

Wines with a smaller number of sulfites are necessary to move and shake consciousness, to stop and think that maybe the doses on regular wines can be lessened or at least measured more precisely. I understand that if someone gets used to tasting wines with a small number of sulfites, they decide on drinking in those low levels of sulfites. Anyway, I understand that this doesn’t need to be a movement for all the wines, but they must be paid attention to. And behind that movement, there’s beauty, consciousness over effort, austerity, risk, intuition, and an admirable feeling of belonging.

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“Wine looks a lot like the person that makes it, and so often the person who drinks it looks a lot like the wine he or she is drinking. “

Salty Magazine Another trend, particularly at fine dining restaurants, is to include beer, sakes, or fermented drinks in pairings.

What is your opinion of such pairings?

Yes, absolutely. I understand that harmony is amongst solids and liquids, and in a global and open-minded world, all beverages are welcomed. At El Celler de Can Roca, we have now been working in the past three years on a project called “Ars Natura Liquída”. We propose drinks elaborated at our place, such as liquors, spirits, wines with fermented dried plums that we elaborate as a Mas Molla [Calonge, Baix Empordà] wine and another one made of Terrades cherries. Also, a carob and wormwood beer is about to see the light, as well as a mezcal we make from opuntia cactus and invader species we find next to our place.

What is your favorite wine?

I could not mention just one wine. One must choose according to his or her mood, the company, the occasion. Anyway, the wines from the regions that inspire me could be from L’Empordà, Priorat, Jerez, Borgonya, German Riesling, Jura, Piemonte…

Do you have an anecdote about a guest who was challenging in his or her wine preferences?

To design a menu for 35 different Rieslings, create dishes from each one of the wines, or design a menu according to a bottle of wine in a vertical tasting and create a link between a distillate of soil where the vineyards were planted, the taste of its leaves in tempura, the juice of the grapes before the fermentation, and 10 wines from across 10 different years with dishes specially created for each of the vintages... All of that, only to receive a proposal of just Amphora wines...

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Josep Roca

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In the unlikely event that you cannot fulfill a request, how do you deal with that situation?

Do you work on the pairings at El Celler with your brothers and do you have the last word?

The most important thing is to think about the client, and about the best option for him or her. To look for his happiness, giving him alternatives, proposing from seduction.

Opening a door with a proposal based on passion and knowledge can make someone adapt and understand.

One of the things I admire the most about my brothers is their generosity. I feel very grateful and acknowledged by them. It’s true that they propose dishes and desserts but the modifying ingredients, the texture, the spices, the seasonings, or the nuances of the dish can be suggested depending on the wine that pairs with them. There are also dishes created from wine. The last word, anyway, usually is the customers’ one, the one that gives sense to all we do.

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On your travels around the world is there a trend in wine service these days that you do not appreciate?

Your son MartĂ­ has become interested in the kitchen instead of following your side of the business.

Have any of the other children in the family expressed interest in the sommelier profession?

It is very early to know whether any of our children will be wine lovers. Marc and MartĂ­ seem to be very enthusiastic about cuisine.

Maybe my profession does not seem very exciting for such young guys. They still look at wine with some distance and I understand that they will enjoy it when they visit the people who elaborate it. The girls, both Joan’s and mine, are too young to imagine them drinking wine and looking at wine as a profession.

Maybe the Asian target and markets growing exponentially. It is a culture in full effervescence, an exciting boost, and in this accelerated growth you can observe some disproportion in the seeking of wine for the impact. But it is normal and logical.

The culture of wine is not so ancient in some parts of the world. The people that are initiating into this path, see at first its luxury, the sophistication, the exclusivity, and little by little, as they learn and understand, they can enjoy the authenticity, the values, even some mysticism or spirituality.

All three of you brothers credit your parents with instilling the true values of hospitality and humility in you. What are the values you want to pass on to the new generation of Rocas?

Generosity, hospitality, endurance, perseverance, simplicity, sacrifice, elderly enchantment, and to follow their own star.

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Jordi Roca

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Jordi Roca Dreaming, Provoking, & Playing

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he youngest of the Roca brothers, Jordi is the sweet foil to big brother Joan’s savory taste explosions in the El Celler de Can Roca dining room. He catapulted into the international limelight after being named the World’s Best Pastry Chef at the World’s 50 Best Restaurant Awards in 2014. A recent appearance on Netflix’s Chef’s Table: Pastry has made him a sweet rockstar.

The youngest sibling started his career under the tutelage of elder brother Joan while still in culinary school. Known for letting his imagination run wild under the watchful and sometimes amused supervision of his brothers, he has finessed the art of pastry to an unmatched level.

In 2002, sparked by an interest in high-end perfumes like Angel by Thierry Mugler and Eternity by Calvin Klein, Jordi introduced scents and aromas into his desserts, adding yet another sensory dimension by successfully separating the natural ingredients in the perfumes. He even went as far as producing a wearable fragrance.

Who would not like to waft about like a lemon muffin dipped in milk with notes of custard, toasted sugar and bergamot?

His next sensory foray was an intense study of colors which set the basis for desserts like Flower Bomb (inspired by the Mexican piñata), the Cuban Cigar Box (rem iniscent of trips to Havana), and Chocolate Anarchy, a distinct

play on different chocolates and textures.

His whimsical popsicles, which appear as a pre-dessert in the restaurant, can range from Jamie Lannister from Game of Thrones (the family members are huge fans of the series and some of them appeared in a crowd scene during the filming at Girona Cathedral) to Darth Vader from Star Wars. Which other pastry chef would send out a strawberry-flavored cast of his own nose on a popsicle stick?

As if his sensory-stimulating desserts at El Celler de Can Roca were not enough, the creative genius has built a dessert wonderland through his Rocambolesc ice cream ventures, featuring an ever-changing array of ice creams with colorful inventive toppings, and most recently, a Willy Wonkaesque chocolate emporium—Casa Cacao.

Set to open soon in the heart of Girona, the chocolate factory is the result of a close collaboration with his wife Alejandra. The couple are also expecting their first child in 2019. Like the Rocambolesc ice cream stores, Casa Cacao is bound to appear in other locations in Spain.

Unsurprisingly, Jordi’s creativity is also displayed in some eclectic videos and short films about his projects, such as VELENCOCO and ANNA ROCKS. A bout with laryngitis has affected his voice, but his creativity speaks in a deafening crescendo.

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Jordi Roca

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Salty Magazine Why did you choose pastry?

My training in the sweet world really began in an amateur way, and not in an academic way at all. Damian Allsop, a very talented Welsh pastry chef, arrived at our place after a long journey that revolved around visiting great European restaurants. By the end of the 90s, he filled the desserts elaboration section at El Celler de Can Roca with his creations. With him, I understood the importance of the sweet cuisine, how specific it is and how singular too. He helped awaken my curiosity, first as his assistant and later on as his successor.

Allsop gave me all the necessary tools to understand the reasons behind the sweet cuisine, as well as the methods, the precision, the craftsmanship, the patience, the temperance, the self-confidence, and the obsessive involvement. In that beginning, rules and quantifying were important. I came to know why a soufflé mousses, why chocolate tempers, or why a jelly sets. I also learnt how to blow sugar just like a crystal craftsman, and more—many more things. So, this opened the way and gave me my chance to create, and I started to fly. Since then, I have not given up enjoying, dreaming, provoking, surprising myself and, more than anything, playing. I confess being addicted to sweet amusement for more than twenty years.

What is your first memory of a dessert in a fine dining restaurant?

It was at Hotel Empordà when I was a child.

We used to go out sometimes to have lunch as a family on Saturdays. At that time the restaurant had one Michelin star, and I was fascinated by the way some of the dishes were brought in front of the guests with the help of the service trolley/cart. The dessert I remember having was a crepe flambé that the maître prepared tableside right in front of me.

Did you have a sweet tooth as a child?

Yes, I had a sweet tooth, as most kids. I was very lucky because at my parents’ bar we had some candies and ice creams that were my first gastronomic references.

Were you a bit of a wild child?

What has been the most stabilizing influence in your life?

I don’t think I was a very wild kid. I’ve always been introverted, especially when I was a child. The most stabilizing influence I had, I think, was working at the family restaurant since a very young age; it gave me the awareness that things need effort to be done.

Why have sensory-stimulating desserts become a signature of your work? Is being provocative important to make an impression?

The fastest way to touch, to evoke emotion, is through the sensory stimulation. Among all the senses, the one that connects us with our subconscious is the olfactory one.

A scent, a smell, an odor, has the power to evoke emotion in us in a visceral way.

El Somni initiated a culinary journey that broke the boundaries between disciplines.

Did that set your pastry career or experimentation on a new track?

Yes, it was a chance for us to welcome the world of art and the artistic experience lived with all the senses along with taste. We are not artists, but for a few days we were invited to join creative forces with more than fifty of them to perform together a menu. It was a very enriching experience.

What does being referred to as one of the finest pastry chefs in the world mean to you?

For some time I was really worried about it!

I thought that from now on I was somehow supposed to act as the best chef in the world, and how do you do this? It took me a while to understand that the recognition was for my particular way of understanding pastry, and then I really enjoyed it and accepted the recognition with gratitude.

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Jordi Roca

“If a brilliant idea comes to your mind, it is good to sleep on it and find it again next morning.

Sometimes they don’t look so brilliant next morning.”

Your dishes are very playful, and some challenge the established norms or are on the edge. Do you purposely go for shock value?

difficult to translate an idea that sometimes is very abstract into images, sometimes in just a one-minute clip, but Umami Video does it in a spectacular way.

After my brothers’ fireworks during the entire menu and service, that’s my challenge. And I have a commitment to do my best.

Which one has been your favorite?

Was there ever a dessert or idea that both of your elder brothers opposed very strongly?

Rocambolesc Gelataria’s concept has been hugely successful, and in the Chef’s Table episode you referred to your special love for ice cream.

What are some new flavors you are experimenting with?

Yes, sometimes there are crazy ideas that I have to rethink after sharing with them.

They have never forbidden me to present any dessert creation, but with them I have learnt to rethink. If a brilliant idea comes to your mind, it is good to sleep on it and find it again next morning. Sometimes they don’t look so brilliant next morning.

Are you actively involved in developing videos and film clips about your work?

Yes! I love to be involved in the creative process. We are very lucky to work with a brilliant production company in our city with a strong link to our team. Joan Gurí, the director of Umami Video, is a genius in his field, and also the husband of Esther Massats, who works at our place, helping us with media and communication. It is very

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Velencoco. It’s awesome.

Now I’m testing pencil and eraser distillates, an aroma that bring us back to school time.

Your chocolate factory in your hometown of Girona is under construction. Can you share some details as to what will unfold in the coming months?

It was born from the experience that I had with cocoa, and it also represents the reencounter with my master, Damian Allsop.

He will be the chocolate master at the workshop, where we want to enhance the aromatic nuances of each origin and variety of cocoa beans but also acknowledge the producers and their work while paying tribute to their efforts.

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Jordi Roca What is the story behind choosing to work with Peruvian cacao?

The genetic origin of the cocoa tree is in the Amazonian forest. Peru is a wellknown producer in the Piura area, but in the Amazons there are very ancient tribes with an ancestral link to cocoa trees. After a trip to the region and after meeting the Awajún tribe and observing their work with cocoa, we have built a close relationship with them.

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Above the factory and the streetlevel bakery there is a projected fifteen-room hotel. Is this a new phase of the family business and are the nephews and nieces going to join you?

The boutique hotel is the fulfillment of a dream project of Joan’s wife, my sisterin-law Anna Payet. Since her early years, while she was studying tourism, she dreamt about managing a hotel one day, so we will have a hotel above my factory, and she will enjoy having a chocolate factory under her hotel. As always, it is a family affair and both of us are happy to achieve our dreams together. The hotel management will be Anna’s responsibility, while the factory will be mine. As for the idea of my nephews being

Salty Magazine involved, we want them to choose what they want to be and work in the family business if they choose this path. That is another story that they will write in the future.

Does your wife work with you in the pastry kitchen, and have any of your nieces and nephews shown an interest in pastry?

My wife initially came to do an internship at El Celler and worked with me. She was so good at her work that I ended up hiring her.

Now she is my boss! My nephews do a bit of everything, they taste, but maybe Martí, Josep’s son, shows some interest in desserts.

Has your wife Alejandra’s Mexican heritage influenced any of your creations or ideas?

Yes! She is very good in harmonizing icecream pairings and has also been the inspiration behind some techniques. While in Mexico, she elaborated desserts at Enrique Olvera’s Pujol, and created a dessert called La Piñata, a caramel ball with lots of typical Mexican candies inside it. I copied her plating for my dessert, Flower Bomb.

As the youngest of three brothers, were you spoiled as a child and did you get away with a lot?

Being the youngest one is very cool when you are a kid! You have all the attention, gifts, caresses. But when you grow up and jump to real life there’s a hard contrast. Being the youngest one is not always an advantage.

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Quique Dacosta

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Quique Dacosta Perfection is, in Essence, a Utopia

by Geeta Bansal

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Quique Dacosta

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uave, debonair, and elegant are not usually the first words that come to mind when speaking of chefs, but all three very aptly describe threeMichelin-star chef Quique Dacosta from Dénia, Spain. Witty, intelligent, charming, there is an air of sophistication about him and his food. This self-taught chef’s steep learning curve began in the very kitchen where he works today as a chefowner; unlike many of his peers, he never spent time in other prestigious kitchens.

The cuisine at his eponymous restaurant is definitely geared towards sophisticated diners who are willing to step out of their comfort zone for an unforgettable experience. Over the past 18 years, Dacosta has come to be known as an innovator in the culinary universe with his edible veils, papers, and landscapes, imitated by cooks around the world. The conceptualized dishes may not all hit the mark with diners, but the ones that do are sure to linger on the palate for a while.

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Recently, as I traveled along the sparkling Mediterranean from Barcelona to Valencia, my first stop on a Quique Dacosta-centered journey, I reflected on all our conversations and exchanges over the past few years. We have spoken about the wide range of his creations, the different genres of art that pique his interest, and sometimes even random subjects like dreams.

The four establishments he operates under the aegis of his Daco & Co include his eponymous Quique Dacosta in Dénia, plus four restaurants an hour’s drive up the Costa Blanca in Valencia: Mercat Bar, Vuelve Carolina, El Poblet and his newest, Llisa Negra. On my first pit stop, I visited his casual Mercat Bar in the market area, jam-packed with regulars enjoying the classic tapas of the region. Cut away to Vuelve Carolina in downtown Valencia, where I fell in love with the vibe of the recently refurbished Gastro heaven before even tasting the food. There is tongue-in-cheek humor in the décor, with paper animal trophies hanging over the long bar and even in the serveware used in the

Salty Magazine restaurant. The sashimi de pez mantequilla and the razor clams in shells with coconut, shiso and sesame were a delightful departure from anything I had tasted at QD earlier.

The El Poblet restaurant upstairs (with its own dedicated entrance) gained a Michelin star within months of opening in 2012. The stunning interior with several private dining rooms has also been refurbished with no expense spared. It is a warm inviting space that is quieter than the bustling Vuelve Carolina downstairs, walls hung with lively modern art pieces and memorabilia. Here is where Dacosta fans still get to taste some of his classic creations such as The Living Forest, the Cubalibre de Foie Gras, the Rice Ashes—dishes that catapulted him to fame.

In Dénia is the whitewashed standalone restaurant, Quique Dacosta (QD), home of the original El Poblet. With its collection of contemporary art displayed in the patio and lounge and minimalist, wood-floored interior, this restaurant has held three Michelin stars since 2013. Dacosta began his career in the same kitchen in 1987 before taking it over in

1999. He renamed it in 2009 after receiving his second star in 2007. There is an amusing anecdote about the day when the third star was awarded and the super excited team frantically dug out three stars from their Christmas decorations to adorn the façade.

The herb gardens on the roof and courtyard at QD perfume the air, while the suspended octopus tentacles air drying on the terrace provide a preview of the local, artisanal, sustainable, ecological offerings inside. Yet all these hints in no way prepare you for the sometimes whimsical, very technical, globally influenced plates that appear on the tasting menus. Dacosta is known for his signature dishes like the Senia rice and Dénia prawns gift-packed in red cellophane, but they do not define the cuisine. The overall tone is edgy but fun, daring the guests to step into the future with an interactive experience.

Behind Dacosta’s mischievous smile and twinkling eyes is a creative genius who likes to take people on a ride. A few years ago, the menu referred to the experience as “a caress in one mouthful and a slap in the next.”

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Quique Dacosta

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Salty Magazine The expansive patio and the glazed lounge was recently refurbished and the dining experience begins there with aperitifs and appetizers. Dacosta and I sat there on a pleasant autumn evening conversing about his work and recent happenings in the culinary world before he headed into the kitchen to send out his latest creations from the D*NA menu.

Dacosta first brought D*NA, a festival within the framework of UNESCO’s Creative Cities of Gastronomy, to his region in 2017. The idea behind the event rooted in Dénia is to share the Mediterranean lifestyle of this culinary/tourist destination. His well-known chef friends like Joan Roca, Jordi Cruz, Angel Leon and Andoni Aduriz joined him for the event, slated to be held annually on the Marineta Cassiana boardwalk in Dénia.

In the dining room, the D*NA menu of the season was presented in six “acts” which, in Dacosta’s words, are a challenge to the diner, his team, and himself. “We are in the same boat and it’s going to be an emotional experience.” It was!

Llisa Negra is Dacosta’s latest culinary offering in Valencia. Just weeks old, the 60-seat restaurant in the historic downtown also boasts a special Krug table in its role as an ambassador for the champagne house. The kitchen is centered around the grill complete with embers and live fire cooking in view of the guests. The casual contemporary space with a Mediterranean flair will also feature dishes from QD’s Salt menu currently being served at his threeMichelin-starred Dénia flagship.

Recently we have caught up in Denia, Barcelona, San Sebastián, and Turkey. Our ongoing dialogue: What drives you? Is it ambition?

The feeling of innovation, when you create.

Initially I wanted a fine dining restaurant because I was influenced by a cookbook I was reading by a famous French chef (George Blanc) which had a lot of pictures. I couldn’t read French, but the pictures were impressive. Michel Guerard’s book was another influence.

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Quique Dacosta

So, pictures speak a thousand words?

[Laughing] Depending on which picture and who is writing about them. Currently there are 800 million users of Instagram and 70% of pictures on Instagram are of food so that kind of says it all, I think.

How do you define creativity?

Creativity within it has the word create. It’s a reflection of your expression, your ideas and innovation. It is what we exhibit in our work, our dishes. On the technical side, we can do almost anything because we have a very strong technical team. Some of my team is much more technical than me.

What kind of a cook are you? Creative, techniquedriven, conceptual, intellectual, organic?

I can’t pick one, as I am probably all of those. Techniques are integral to my cooking. If I want to achieve the result, I want to control the technique. Concepts and ideas are integral to creativity and we are a creative restaurant, so we need to think ideas through. We also need to explore ideas to keep changing the menu, and of course the intellect is involved. We are trying to work with producers around us, so we are product-based and organic.

So, would it be appropriate to refer to you as an intellectual and conceptual chef driven by techniques?

I understand that, but it’s the media that categorizes.

Auto-analysis is a very difficult exercise, since I am so passionate that even when I am told to be careful of the world and how much to share, I believe so much in what I do and love it so much, I say it like it is. The only way in which I can describe myself is professionally; otherwise, it’s hard to say who I am and the life I have lived.

What is more important to you: The fame and professional status, or the integrity of your work and concepts?

The honest way of working and presenting my concepts is what I started my career with and that is more important.

I don’t consider myself famous, just well-known in my sector. People outside the world of gastronomy probably don’t know who I am. [Laughing]

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“Creativity within it has the word create. It’s a reflection of your expression, your ideas and innovation.”

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Quique Dacosta

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Our work has been very influential in Spanish gastronomy as well as outside the country, yet I can go out on the street and no one will know who I am since I am not Jordi Cruz or other chefs on TV. I have always thought more in terms of “and” rather than “or.” Why do I have to choose between product and technique? When I am asked to choose, I ask “why?” If I am asked to be on a popular TV program, why do I have to lose my integrity as a chef?

“I have always thought more in terms of ‘and’ rather than ‘or.’ Why do I have to choose between product and technique? When I am asked to choose, I ask ‘Why?’” Avant-garde or vangardia is referred to as the new or forward-thinking, but isn’t all that is new built on something that already exists? So, are we really pushing forward or expanding on an existing idea, or isn’t everything linked to something in the past?

Let’s take Ferran Adrià as a reference.

The foams: were they an invention of Ferran, or were the foam, jelly, spherification, deconstruction all new?

What Ferran really gave to the world is to think in an intellectual way without thinking about what existed before and what people were talking about.

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Quique Dacosta If you believe in what you are expressing or doing, then do the opinions of others matter?

Yes, it’s true, but I’m going to present another extreme example about innovation.

Looking at chefs like Andoni Aduriz, Ferran Adrià, Albert Adrià, Joan Roca etc.—we can band all these chefs together, as they have been talking about and doing something innovative in the industry.

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Aren’t they reworking ideas?

In the last ten years, the industry has advanced technically, or some things that didn’t exist twenty years ago are now used widely. One singular technology that is brand new is hard to pinpoint. Imagine if you ate the same dishes in Enigma or Tickets that you eat at Dénia, what would you think? People don’t usually know—or are not so well informed as to know—what was first created where or by whom. By the way, speaking of techniques, elBulli was 99% technique.

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Quique Dacosta How did the new iteration of El Poblet come about?

When we started the first refurbishment here and saw the results and talent of the team, I realized we could do more with the talent we already had in the group. El Poblet was perfect because we had opened it right after the economic crisis, which had been very severe in Valencia. It fit a muchneeded gap, and unexpectedly, within two months of opening, it received its first Michelin star.

The name El Poblet was fitting, since it was the first name associated with Quique Dacosta before I changed the name of my main restaurant in Dénia to Quique Dacosta.

The kitchen and everything else were all ready, and I decided to put some of my most popular dishes over the years on the menu.

So some of the classic dishes from your Dénia location are transitioning to El Poblet as you create new dishes at QD? What is your most iconic dish?

At present, the menu has five dishes that are served both in Dénia and in El Poblet.

At this moment it’s the bread here in QD. So, it changes, and according to diners it’s the Cubalibre or the Dénia prawns that are wrapped in red cellophane.

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If there was a movie about your life and career, which dish would you pick to be shown?

There are many and it’s hard to choose because they are all my creations, so it’s hard to pick one. Truthfully, I have one for each moment, so the answers can vary.

In that case I will say Cubalibre, and I can tell you why. It’s been an iconic plate for ten years, even though it’s been copied all over. Before creating the dish, I had already written a book. My way of thinking and style of cooking had already been put out there, so it was not really an introduction to my style of cooking or conceptualizing.

You are making me think antagonistic thoughts, [laughing] so I am going to tell you, maybe the people in Spain identify me with my green curry langoustine. You are correct in saying that more people eat than read cookbooks, so this dish is wellknown because I have cooked this dish on the MasterChef finale—so 22 million people have viewed this dish. The question is, when do people discover the dish: when I create it, write a cookbook, or watch it on TV?

Salty Magazine Would that be TV, since people who cannot travel here or afford to eat it probably saw it on TV? What I can say is, more than the dishes it’s the products that are more representative of the gastronomy in our region. The red prawns, the rice, and citrus, which, though not the star ingredient in a dish, is always present. There are the vegetables that are not in common usage, and we can be using the root and the flowers as well.

Is the lead idea for a dish always yours or can your team members propose ideas?

Everyone on the team can pitch in and bring up an idea. Invariably, the first word and the last word are mine. The idea of this year is: everything that is on the board and up for discussion, if it’s not used this year but is interesting, is on hold till next year.

I have a lot of talent on my team and a lot happens between that first word and my last word. There is a lot of discussion and a lot of ideas examined and investigated.

So the process can be described as an accordion, where the ideas are compressed between the beginning and the end?

It’s like struggling with balls of water up in the air because no one other than me knows if it’s a sure thing. I question, I doubt my ideas, myself, before presenting them.

For example, right now I am doubting the choice of having only one menu. Normally we had two menus for guests to choose from in Dénia. Since this season we went down to only one menu, and though the second menu was to come back for fall, I thought that personally, I don’t feel like bringing it back. The idea is for people to come here and experience our latest work, and we have the Valencia restaurant (El Poblet) cooking those other dishes anyway.

Now I am thinking maybe the customers should have the choice between one or the other. So right now, I don’t know.

“Everyone on the team can pitch in and bring up an idea.

Invariably, the first word and the last word are mine.”

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Quique Dacosta

What is a perfect restaurant experience according to you?

At my restaurant I try to represent what I consider to be a wonderful experience, at least according to my taste. I am not sure that I would call it perfect, because perfection is, in essence, a utopia that is often far from a moving experience, and that’s what my proposal is aimed at—emotion, creating emotions and memories for our customers.

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Quique Dacosta What is your opinion on chefs turning in their Michelin stars? Is it going to impact gastronomy?

We are all free to do what we want in the world.

Few days ago, I was in the Michelin ceremony and I saw some Japanese chefs who received their first Michelin star who got very emotional, with tears in their eyes. It was happiness, emotion on one side, while on the other, someone gives it up, so there will be a balance somewhere. Some people are tired of maintaining them, while others are driven to get them, and so I don’t think it will have any major impact on the industry. It’s just a moment in time.

How important are the Michelin, the 50 Best, the OAD, La Liste, etc. to you personally?

The year we got the third star we doubled the number of guests, and obviously without them maybe we wouldn’t be here. It’s also recognition for the team and a source of encouragement. Independently, thinking about who will give them back and who will earn them... where would you go first, somewhere with three stars, or no recognition? I have a theory about it, but I’m not going to tell you because you will write it!

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“[W]here would you go first, somewhere with three stars, or no recognition? I have a theory about it, but I’m not going to tell you because you will write it!”

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What are your passions outside the world of gastronomy? Travel, family, sports, etc.

yet that is where I want to be, amidst that diversity and plurality of taste.

How much power do food critics have?

Family, art, literature, sport, also travel.

But I travel a lot for work and tend to associate it with intensive work rather than intensive pleasure. And as you know, cooking remains a great passion of mine.

What region has impressed you most during your recent travels?

Colombia is a country that I continue to learn from each time I visit. But of course, it’s not the only place. Copenhagen is another destination, which I had a very productive visit to with my team. So, you can see, Colombia to Copenhagen, two apparently opposite destinations in terms of their culture, climate and cuisine, and

Well, they have a lot in this sector. But no more power than the diners. The diners ultimately have the last word.

What is the D*NA festival, and how did it originate?

It came about out of a vocation to disseminate and to celebrate the feast that is eating. It was the desire to highlight this place and its culinary greatness. We are all at the same place and time celebrating our importance— without any sector hierarchies, with the producers and chefs on the same level, and of course, the citizens too.

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What is the aim behind chef collaborations and pop-ups? Is it to stay relevant?

Not so much to stay relevant, or perhaps yes—every chef has their own objectives at such events. Mine is to visit the chefs that have invited me out of affection and respect for my work, enabling me to strengthen my friendships even further. From there we know that every activity has its relevance and attracts customers to DÊnia, which is where we implement this wonderful project.

Do events like the 50 Best Chef talks make any relevant contribution to the industry?

What should replace them?

Replace them? There is no need for something to die for something else to rise. We live in a very heterogeneous world. Let each choose their own list, guide, event, influencer and follow them whilst they share values and tastes.

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Are there relevant issues in the restaurant industry that are not addressed in such events or congresses?

Well, there are more events around the world every day organized by companies, brands, the media, journalists, cooks, sommeliers...

I think that everything is ultimately covered somewhere. Possibly there is no single event that covers everything, but that is normal because of how long these events last.

Where do you see yourself ten years from now? Are there more casual projects or overseas projects in the works?

I always see myself as being connected to cuisine, cooking and related businesses, with all the expressive plurality that goes with it. I would like to open restaurants overseas, yes. I have four successful formulas at present, and they could all be exported, and they represent me beyond any big differences between them.

They are profitable and very established in the market. From there, finding someone who wants them beyond Spain would be the next step. I hope we will be opening a new concept in London, revolving around rice, the traditional and contemporary ways of cooking it in the Valencia region, which has given us the most important dish in Spanish cooking, the paella.

And other things will follow.

What makes you happy?

Many things make me happy. They are all simple and I don’t need a lot to be happy.

Being aware of that, knowing what I need for that simple happiness is what drives me today to seek it. Generally, I am always happy, and I have gotten much more than I ever dreamed of. I am very content.

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Salty Magazine The use of the red Dénia prawns in QD’s cuisine has inspired many other innovative kitchens of Spain to include them on their menus. The prawns have made their appearance at QD restaurants in many different versions, but the most iconic preparation arrives at the table in the gift-wrapped cellophane package.

In recognition of my collection of the gold ribbons that tie up the familiar red cellophanewrapped Dénia prawns, QD shared a recipe for preparing them.

RECIPE • 2 kg of freshly caught Dénia red prawns (45 g each) • 5 L seawater • 200 g coarse sea salt • 3 kg ice

Leave them in the water for about 2 minutes with the heat off so that the temperature reaches 62 °C: the ideal temperature. Remove the prawns from the pot. Add the ice cubes and dissolve the coarse salt. Then return the prawns to the now iced seawater.

Bring the 5 liters of seawater to boil in a large stockpot. Then add 2 kg of prawns. Keep the water boiling for 30 seconds, and then turn off the heat; this will make their bodies shrink and their flesh firmer.

After 5 minutes in the seawater bath, the prawns will have stopped cooking and will be done to perfection. Wrap them in red cellophane and tie the packages with a gold bow, as if they were a divine gift from the sea for us to enjoy.

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Corey Lee

Corey Lee Food is a Reflection of Culture

by Geeta Bansal

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orean-American chef Corey Lee’s three-Michelin-starred restaurant in the heart of San Francisco does not derive its name from his cultural heritage.

Benu (ben-oo) is named after an ancient Egyptian deity, a bird similar to a Phoenix.

In a world where we are so accustomed to categorizing just about everything, it is not so easy to place Corey Lee into any specific group of chefs. At our first meeting years ago, during the Gastronomika Congress in San Sebastián, Spain, it was evident that the young, self-assured chef was destined for success and had a clear vision of such destination. Not much has changed since then (although the hairstyle changes on and off, from clean shaven to a swathe of hair at our last meeting), but any conversation with him is always an earnest exchange of thoughts.

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The courtyard entrance to his flagship, Benu, is lined with glistening Korean Onggi earthenware pots filled with ingredients in varying degrees of fermentation, inspiring diners to expect some on their plates.

His mother is a potter who inculcated an appreciation for ceramics in the chef, evident in the specially-designed, mutedtoned earthenware at Benu. Once seated in the serene, minimalistic dining room, the first small bites are indications of an unlikely but very compatible coupling of contemporary food styles with inflections of his Asian roots.

The classical French training—honed by the likes of Guy Savoy, Daniel Boulud and Marco Pierre White before he arrived for a decade at Chef Thomas Keller’s acclaimed Napa restaurant, The French Laundry—comes through in his plates. A visit to the orderly, gently humming kitchen reveals the staff patiently and painstakingly plating dishes ranging from the iconic faux shark fin soup to

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the thousand-year-old quail egg that comes in new guises each time. To state that the menu is ambitious would be an understatement, but in the capable hands of the team led by Lee, it seems effortless and uncontrived, without any unnecessary elements for effect.

Chef Lee was born in Seoul and raised on the East Coast, but it’s his twenty years in the San Francisco Bay Area that have defined his cooking style. After serving as head chef in Napa, he opened Benu in 2010, and it wasn’t long before he gained two Michelin stars.

Then he opened Monsieur Benjamin, his take on a French Bistro, in 2014. Benu’s third star arrived shortly after. The bistro is a nod to his love for classic French cuisine with fare like seafood plateau, foie gras, chicken liver terrines, escargots and sweetbreads.

Not given to complacency, whether in evolving his modernistic cuisine or taking on new projects, he set a precedent by opening In Situ, a revolutionary restaurant concept inside the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art. The restaurant serves iconic dishes from some of the world’s most recognized chefs and received its first Michelin star in 2018. The rotating menu features 100 dishes from these chefs, who have trained the in-house staff and provided recipes for their dishes.

One afternoon, we sat in his Benu restaurant for an interesting conversation that revolved around food, of course, but also his personal thoughts about the rapidly changing food culture.

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What does food mean to you?

For me it’s really a reflection of your culture. Culture is relative, and everyone has their own center point, but in reality, it is part of a greater thing. At least that is what resonates with me. For me food is a large component of things that make up your culture: your values, your family, and so on. You have a local culture, and also the culture of your own family and your work. Food is a very large part of all of that. It’s very revealing as well.

Are diners these days more invested in the experience or the taste?

I think there are two types of restaurants. I think there are restaurants that people go to for an experience, and those are the restaurants that I talk about, that often can fall short. It’s because they understand that the diners are coming for this very out-ofworld experience and they focus on things so much outside of their food. While talking about restaurants that you just go to for a lunch, then that’s a completely different experience. I think when you talk about restaurants you have to distinguish between restaurants that are meant to be experienced and restaurants that are just meant to nourish you and provide sustenance. It doesn’t mean that the basic restaurants cannot be delicious or well-done, it just means it’s a different category. So, when you talk about food, you have to differentiate between the type of experience you’re going for, and when I talk about my experiences and thoughts on restaurants, I am referring to just the fine dining world.

How do you feel about negative feedback?

I think that’s okay because feedback is something almost completely different from the process of cooking. I know it sounds strange, because I am a chef and I need customers, but I don’t see that as a negative, I see it as a separate thing. What I mean by that is, for example, food is part of your own identity and the culture you are part of. If someone doesn’t like who you are, you just have to be okay with that.

Did you always feel that way, or was it harder getting negative feedback when you were starting out?

“...Food is part of your own identity and the culture you are part of. If someone doesn't like who you are, you just have to be okay with that.”

Well, it depends. If the execution isn’t there, something’s messed up and someone doesn’t like it, then yes, of course those things happen. If we’re talking about precise techniques that require certain execution, and it’s flawed in that sense, then yes, of course that is the time for you to find out what went wrong and improve on it. What if someone doesn’t like the core flavors you’re working with or your approach to food? Then you can’t do anything about that.

Was negative criticism more difficult to deal with when you opened your first restaurant compared to now that you are more established?

Oh absolutely. I think when you first start out with your own place there is this deep desire to find and fine-tune your culinary voice, but I think there are a lot of other elements of survival that you’re worried about, so you try to address them before

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“I think the first reaction should just be that it’s tasty.” anything else. So, when you first start out you are much more sensitive to whether people are going to respond to it positively and whether there are enough people that are going to respond positively, as that will let your restaurant live. You have to be practical about it, too. If you’re just talking about a purely idealistic sense, I feel like you have to explore what kind of food resonates with you and what food you want to work with outside of the response you receive.

Do you feel that there is still a relevant place for food critics? Are they using their voice responsibly?

I think there is a place for that position, but I think the people who are going to occupy that position are going to change.

According to me, there is a need for a person who’s able to communicate and bridge the gap between the chefs and the diners. We don’t necessarily have the opportunity to communicate in an 800-word article about what do we do, so that there is an opportunity for journalists to form a bridge between the two. I think that’s the greatest power of food journalism today, is to be able to help people understand the greater context of what they might experience or might have at a restaurant. Then they can weigh in on whether they like it or not, and that is their prerogative. That aside, I think the greatest opportunity for food writing right now is to kind of explain to the greater public that which only someone with a lot of experience and maybe some professional training can really understand. It’s just like going to a museum. Imagine going to a museum and not learning anything from the point of view of the curators. It’s hard to fully appreciate them, right? So, I think

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that’s the role of a food journalist: not to necessarily say if it’s good or bad, but to be honest, admit that, “Hey! I don’t really know if they know what’s good or bad.”

How do you feel about social media and overly detailed food posts? Do you think it serves a purpose for prospective diners?

I think it’s entertaining. The pitfall to that is that you could go somewhere that you have read about it and seen pictures of and everything, and then it’s kind of anticlimactic once you experience it.

What annoys you or doesn’t fly well with you about certain restaurant practices or experiences?

I think one thing is when a restaurant gets lost in its own story, and the food ends up being lost in the background to some story they’ve crafted and becomes only a second thought. It happens more and more because there is this need to sort of package the restaurant into a kind of story or experience that’s beyond just the food, and I think that’s being achieved at every level of restaurant these days. Some places can pull that off, like if we talk about a restaurant like Noma, where you have a hundred people working to feed 30 people and a leader like René, who can pull something like that off.

There’s a story, there’s a space, there’s a greater purpose, and the food is executed at the highest level, so it all works together.

You cannot really do that with every dining opportunity; it just doesn’t work. I feel what happens is that sometimes the food falls short because some of these restaurants are not investing all their resources in what should be the main focus.

What is the reaction you expect from your diners?

I think the first reaction should just be that it’s tasty. It’s a sensory thing. And then, if they want to look deeper, they can find something that’s more meaningful to them

Salty Magazine than just the taste. If that’s the case then you have succeeded in creating something special because they will probably remember it, but if you succeed just in satisfying someone’s taste then I think that’s pretty successful too.

How do you categorize a restaurant like In Situ that has the concepts of so many different chefs? What kind of cuisine is that?

See, I don’t think of it as a cuisine. I think cuisine is a word that gets thrown around a lot. I think I can only call something a cuisine if it represents something greater than a dish for a single menu. I think cuisine is a much broader term that describes a movement, or a style, or a region, or a culture. It reveals those things. I often mistakenly say myself, “Oh this person’s cuisine...” but it’s not really their cuisine. I think they are part of a larger cuisine of that area, or all that time of that area, or just at that moment; so it is a pretty loaded word. So, when I think about In Situ, I don’t think about it as a cuisine

itself, but I think it represents samples from different cuisines. It’s a restaurant, but it’s a restaurant because people come in and they order food and we serve them, but outside of that basic function, it was never intended to be anything like a restaurant.

I wanted someone to go in and be able to try something they’ve heard of or are interested in and might never want to try outside of that one opportunity or might not have the opportunity to try otherwise.

That is the way it really is like the museum, because if the museum wasn’t there, then how does the public experience it? Will they like everything they see when they go to the museum? I can guarantee you they will not. I mean, there’s no way you can go to a modern art museum and love every piece you see, even if you find a couple pieces that make you say, “Oh wow, I never realized that,” or “I never looked at something that way.” So if you can have that experience with food then I think we’ve been successful. We go into it with a different goal and a different expectation, so it’s a unique concept in that sense.

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Corey Lee How does the ownership of the dishes come together in a concept like this, where all these chefs give their ideas or dishes for your team to present? It’s not an imitation or replication, but what do you call it?

I think that these days a lot of chefs use Instagram as a tool to kind of put their stamp on their ownership of an idea because even if you don’t use Instagram, someone’s going to put it up. So if you do it yourself you can say, “Okay, I put this dish out there,” and it’s almost like a trademark, right? I think the dishes at In Situ provide very much the same opportunity, where as you go in and, let’s say, have this cheesecake from Albert Adrià—that’s going be imitated, and it comes up, and you see a date on it, then you see where the restaurant is from, etc., and you understand the idea. It’s a trickle-down effect, so thinking that, I’m trying to source works from the originals, which is quite like a museum because I don’t think a curator, a good curator, is going to get copies or a rip off of another work of art. By selecting properly, I think you have an opportunity to really help send the message that these are the original works. It’s a restaurant, functionally, but I had no interest in just opening a restaurant. I thought that this is an opportunity to do this crazy project that you can’t do anywhere else outside the modern art museum. So, we didn’t approach it like a restaurant.

There are many well-known chefs whose dishes are on your menu and are well-received by guests. Is that the goal?

Yes, that’s the goal. For example, you were talking about Mauro Colagreco: how many people have the opportunity to go to Menton? I mean, sure he does other events around the world, but how many people will actually be able to go to those? For someone visiting us from, say, Ohio, who’s in town for a wedding and they don’t even care about fine dining, and they walk into

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the museum because they heard it’s a touristy thing to do, they can sit down at the strange restaurant while they do not even know what is going on and say, “Okay, I’ll have The Forest.” Then this dish comes out and it is an opportunity for them to experience something completely different and probably foreign to them, and hopefully it will be a positive experience. Sometimes people say, “Oh, this isn’t good for me,” and that’s the risk you run, but that’s okay.

Do you feel that being at a modern art museum gives you access to people who are more open about exploring food?

Oh! I don’t know about that. People separate food and are very personal about food in terms of their tastes. Modern art is a little box, and they don’t have to consume it or touch it. It’s like you go to a ballet and you think, “Oh, ballet’s not for me,” but you are not going to start criticizing the choreography and the moves. No matter what your experience is with food, people can go to a restaurant and start criticizing the cooking and the ingredients. That happens because everyone feels they have a say, because they eat every day, they’ve been eating all their lives, are an expert in the art, and an expert in what they like or don’t.

Are chefs artists? Is food a creative art?

If you wanted it to be it is. I don’t think it’s for anyone to categorically say, food is art or food is not art. If there is an exhibit going on and the artist does stuff with food items, if one of the greatest American artists is doing some kind of exhibition using consumable food: can anyone deny that it is art? Of course it is art. I guess my point is that if the intent is that you’re trying to make a piece of art, whether you like it or not, you have to acknowledge that an artistic process is happening, and it’s for you to decide whether you like it or not. I think it’s all about the intention.

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Corey Lee

“I think there’s always this feeling, as a minority, to wonder, ‘Will this food be accepted?’ or ‘Will these flavors be accepted by the mainstream, and will I be able to survive based on that?’”

Do you enjoy traveling?

I rarely travel. It’s not because I don’t like it like it, I just…. Well, okay, maybe it’s a little bit because I don’t like it. It’s a combination of me feeling like where I am most useful and where I can be more satisfied professionally is in my own restaurant cooking for guests.

Sometimes when I go on the road, and as you know, we have to close, I spend so much time

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trying to optimize this unfamiliar kitchen in that space, so we can execute something I would be happy with and that is consistent with my work. If you take all that away, you feel like you’re not going to be able to do your best product. I mean, lectures and talks, that’s one thing, but to go somewhere and do a full menu, it is very, very hard for me as a craftsman to be satisfied with those results.

Salty Magazine Do you think the time is over for all these conferences, congresses, and gastronomic meetups?

I think there’s just too many. It would be nice to have something like that in America, but it’s just not something that we do or that’s part of our culture or community.

A lot of ethnic cuisines still struggle in this industry. Do you think it’s because these chefs are not vocal enough?

I think it’s a lot of things, like when I was talking about when I first opened; yes, you hope for an opportunity to be creative, an opportunity to really explore a certain type of cuisine, but in the beginning, you’re just worried about survival, and I think that certainly these restaurants that are run in the U.S. by immigrants are not about fine dining but about survival. I think there’s always this feeling, as a minority, to wonder, “Will this food be accepted?” or “Will these flavors be accepted by the mainstream and will I be able to survive based on that?”

One thing about food is that it has never been stagnant, either because of availability, war, or influence from having colonies, or from changing borders.

Whatever the reason may be, food has always changed. If you’re trying to get a flash of what Japanese cuisine or Chinese cuisine was 200 years ago, it would be unrecognizable. Who’s to say that the Japanese cuisine of the 50s is really what’s authentic? Why the 50s? How come you’re saying that’s not authentic and trying to find the Japanese cuisine of the 18th century? Food is this constantly moving thing. The world is changing. Borders, both actual and invisible, are always changing, and in essence, diners just have to get past that uneasiness. Of course, a lot of people come here and associate us with being an Asian restaurant, but I have no problems running a dish that really has nothing to do with Asia. I don’t think of it as a formula. I don’t have this checklist of ingredients that I feel has to be in a dish.

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For me, what’s interesting is actually exploring the small space that is occupied by people who immigrated here and what that cuisine means. I am not really that interested in trying to find out what indigenous American cuisine is; I am more interested in exploring what happens when these people from different cultures come to America like I did. I want to know how their eating and cooking culture has changed and how they are influenced. Is there something that is newly delicious that is derived from that interaction? That is really the space that I am interested in.

Is cooking becoming a social tool?

I think part of it is just that chefs are getting more attention. They put a lot of pressure on themselves to be a certain kind of public figure. I cannot generalize this for everyone, but I just feel like now they feel they have to do speaking engagements and be a writer and have clever ideas about life, share some perspective with the world or champion a cause. The other thing is that there are a lot of very intellectual role models in this industry, and there’s a really

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steep trickle-down effect because you take someone like Rene Redzepi, probably the most successful in terms of notoriety over the last 10 years, so you look up to him, you want to emulate his success for yourself, which is natural. It is human nature, to look at someone like that and say, “Oh, so what makes him successful?” and you see that he goes out and forages and you think, “I’m going to go do that too!” Then you see that he uses bugs and you say, “I’m going to use bugs!” He champions causes, so you think you’ll champion a cause too.

Walking into his Noma restaurant is like a fairy tale, and people think, “I want to tell a story too!” The problem is, maybe they don’t have a story to tell. Maybe they do not have a cause that’s burning inside of them that they want to champion, or maybe they don’t have the local products that are worth foraging for. So, I think that this is a big part of what happens, but it’s quite understandable. You have these industry leaders that are very recognizable and nowadays everything they do is broadcast around the world in seconds.

In my view, if it’s not genuine and you don’t feel it, then it’s going to be crap.

Salty Magazine What do you think about the trend of chefs giving back their Michelin stars? Do you think it’s going to change anything?

No, I don’t think so. It’s fine if they just do, but you also have to look at it from Michelin’s standpoint, like, “We’re not giving you these stars so you can give them back. We’re just telling you how you’re doing and what level we think you’re at.” To certain extent I think they are trying to sensationalize something by saying, “Oh, we are giving our stars back.”

It’s not like they participate in the review process; they’re just getting reviewed.

What about something like La Liste?

Is Michelin still more prestigious?

Yeah, I mean, from what I understand they reach out to every two- and three-star Michelin chef or something and ask them to vote. I don’t remember the specifics of the process. But I think Michelin, because of its history, will always have a certain level of prestige and respect that differentiates them. I know they are branching into different things, and branding the name a little bit. Then I think we have to be appreciative of any business trying to survive in the new world. It is so easy, especially as chefs, to come out and say, “Michelin has no more integrity!”, but if you were in their position, you might be worried about the future too and might feel the need to reach a new audience. So, is it really a terrible thing they’re doing?

“I am not really that interested in trying to find out what indigenous American cuisine is; I am more interested in exploring what happens when these people from different cultures come to America like I did.”

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As far as the World’s 50 Best, I thought in the beginning it did a lot of good because it brought chefs and restaurants we would never have heard about to the forefront. Are they still doing that?

That is the power of 50 Best, that it overnight brought a lot of attention to markets where there is really no media presence. As much as people criticize 50 Best, that is still a huge positive that they do. Having said that, there is not a guide out there that gets it right every time.

Do you ever envision yourself doing a TV show or being filmed?

It would depend on what it is. The only ones I’ve done so far are ones for Korea, and the reason I did these documentaries is because I thought it would be nice if the young Koreans who are starting to take an interest in cooking got a message about what cooking really means and what

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running a restaurant is like, so they’re not making the wrong choices and getting into this industry because of some glamorized version of what it might be. I just felt that if they were asking me to do these things, then I had a responsibility to try to deliver a good message. Whether my message was good or not, that’s up for debate. That’s the reason that I wanted to try to do that.

So, I did a few of those, but other than that it’s never really been my thing, and I’ve never really tried to pursue it. If I did do it, it would have to be for the right thing.

This is where I feel like so many chefs feel pressured to champion a cause, because if anyone is going to do a show and it’s focused on me, then it’s honestly just going to be pretty boring. I don’t know about the other chefs. I’m sure there are some whose lives are so fascinating that they’re worth documenting, but if they came to me, I know that I would have to stage something in order for them to get any footage—things that I don’t typically do— and I will not do that. That’s a big part of it.

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Elena Arzak

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Elena Arzak The Family Legacy

by Geeta Bansal

O

n a Saturday afternoon in the Arzak Restaurant in San Sebastián, the dining room filled with laughter and conviviality, I was struck by how different it was from other temples of haute cuisine. The restaurant was alive with the joyous sounds of local families and guests of all ages, a stark contrast with most other three-Michelinstarred establishments. Usually, the only audible sounds at such luxe restaurants are the hushed whispers of diners and servers, the clink of glasses and silver at the table, or subdued piped music playing in the background. When I asked chef Elena Arzak about it, she said, “This is how we ourselves are as a family, and that is picked up by guests, many of whom have been coming here through a few generations.”

Elena Arzak shares the head chef responsibilities at Arzak with her father Juan Mari Arzak (though lately her father’s health has left Elena alone in charge).

Following three generations of cooks in her family, the petite powerhouse of a chef is expanding the boundaries of cuisine in her beloved Basque region while incorporating influences, flavors, and spices from other cultures.

On one occassion, she was charged up about her Cleopatra monkfish plate with Egyptian hieroglyphics made of pumpkin and chickpea puree, while another time it was the scarlet prawn with krill crisps.

There is often an amusing quality to her plates, especially her desserts, which reflect her own lively personality. Her love for cuisine goes back to her childhood, when, during summer break, she was allowed in the restaurant kitchen for just two hours every day. Those afternoons led to a lifelong passion for the creative processes in a kitchen. The entire family, including her grandmother, aunt, and father—all chefs, and her mother—who still takes care of the front of the house, all worked in the restaurant she spent most of her childhood at. Given her passion for gastronomy, it was inevitable that she would follow in their footsteps.

The restaurant is still located in the family home where her father was born and grew up and where she lived as a child with her family. The family has since moved out to make room for the expansive wine cellar, and the R&D kitchens and offices, but she still has very fond memories of those years.

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“There are two things that I remember the most,” she says. “The first is, when I was a very young child, maybe five or six, I smelt the aromas of food the moment I entered the restaurant, but every Sunday that I would come in the smells were different. I especially remember the smell of squid and that of the first mushrooms that arrived in the kitchen.

One thing I remember distinctly, that even when the smells were intense, they were very clean and I have never forgotten them.

“Another vivid memory is of playing in this very dining room, waiting for my mother or my father to get me when the guests arrived, since I was only allowed to play while there were no guests. I would hide under the tables with my dolls and pretend that under the tablecloth-draped tables was my own little house. I remember once I left one of my dolls under the table, and the next day I was told that one of the guests found it.”

On one of my visits, I walked into the kitchen to find Anthony Bourdain’s crew filming a scene for his show’s Spain episode with Juan Mari. With cameras underfoot, the kitchen team, led by Elena, worked frantically to send out food into the dining room.

I escaped up the back stairs into calm of the recently remodeled research kitchen and spice room. A comprehensive collection of spices and ingredients from every corner of the world lines the shelves of the Banco de Sabores, and they figure prominently in dishes on the ever-changing menu at Arzak. On a recent trip to Turkey, I explored the spice market of the Grand Bazaar in Istanbul with her. She was in her element, her adventurous spirit and passion for exotic spices on full display.

After tasting a dessert on the menu with distinct indications of cloves and coconut, I was tempted to ask if her interest in spices had deepened over the years, and if she found herself playing with bolder favors.

She said, “Yes, it’s true, I do find I take more risks now. I was just as much of a risk taker in my twenties and then became more restrained for a while, and now I am back to it. You cannot have one style as a chef forever, and your style changes though the base stays the same. I want to have different experiences with food. I notice over the years there are a lot of places that I haven’t visited yet, and now I want to travel and explore more.”

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Elena Arzak

“I was just as much of a risk taker in my twenties and then became more restrained for a while, and now I am back to it. You cannot have one style as a chef forever, and your style changes though the base stays the same.”

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After she finished high school, her culinary education took her to Switzerland and for six years she traveled and worked with many great chefs such as Michel Roux, Michel Troisgros, Pierre Gagnaire, Claude Peyrot, Alain Ducasse, and Ferran Adrià.

Her language studies were no doubt an asset since she speaks Spanish, German, French, English and of course Euskara, the language of the Basque Country. Her life revolves around her family: her husband Manu Lamos, an architect, daughter Nora, son Matteo, her parents, and sister Martha, who after studying art history is the Director of Education at the Guggenheim Museum in Bilbao. The family bonds are strong, and the doting young mother often shares her mischievous son’s escapades.

food lovers, but also chefs from different parts of the globe make it their first stop in San Sebastián—for the food as well as to visit Juan Mari Arzak and pay their respects. At seventyfive, he is still at the restaurant with Elena every day, overseeing the kitchen and feeding friends and family at its white marble table.

The Arzak restaurant has held three Michelin stars since 1989, and in 2018 was voted #31 on the World’s 50 Best Restaurant list. Not just

Lately, her duties and responsibilities at the restaurant have increased as her father gradually steps back, confident that she will continue to carry forth the family legacy.

Elena has been the recipient of many awards and accolades, including Chef de L’Avenir, the Swedish Seafood Award, the Best Female Chef of the World from the 50 Best academy in 2012, and numerous others. She also serves on the technical committee of the Basque Culinary Center’s World Prize. In any gathering of chefs, the affection and respect her peers hold for her is evident. Her infectious laughter makes it easy to locate her amongst the throngs.

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Your legacy and the family: is it a privilege or a responsibility?

For me it’s a privilege because it’s not just a legacy but respect. It’s a matter of huge pride for me and the reason I joined this business, in addition to the fact that I like this atmosphere.

I grew up seeing my grandmother, father and mother invested in this business. I imbibed the values from several generations which are very important for me. Even now I can hear my grandmother’s words and advice, and I revisit them again and again.

No doubt I have a huge responsibility, because the name Arzak has a well-known history and is famous in the culinary industry.

It does exert pressure, but sometimes such pressure helps you work harder and strive to be better. Without such pressure, you can get by without trying to excel, so I feel you always need some pressure. As for me, I am following the story of my family and the evolution with great pride.

You have the persona of an accomplished chef, you are a daughter of the house, a mother, wife, a sister, but underneath all those layers, who is Elena Arzak?

I am very much my own person with my own personality, and I am happy to be all these things to everyone, but I am Elena first. A person from the Pays Basque who likes to be around people. I find people mostly everyone interesting. It doesn’t matter who they are or what they do. I like to interact with different kinds of people, and one thing about me that I can say is that I am a very positive person.

I feel that life is not as complicated as we make it sometimes. I always find life to be interesting with many things around to discover. As a very practical person, I don’t get upset or aggravated about inconsequential things. My opinion is that we should try to keep things simple

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Elena Arzak

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without unnecessary complications. I view food in the same way, and I am usually quiet unless I’m around people I know. Always active but always willing to listen, as that is what people who know me will often say about me.

Once people enter your circle, they are usually there to stay because of your friendly personality. Have you always been good about bonding or building relationships?

Always. Even at school or with friends, all I want is to make life agreeable as much as possible. Of course, I realize I have been privileged in my life and career, but I still have problems like anyone else. As for problems, I realize that there are many people with far more serious problems than I could ever face. There is a lot of suffering and more serious problems like hunger in the world. I do work very hard, and for long hours, but compared to many others I am very fortunate.

It’s an attitude, isn’t it?

It certainly is, and I can never stop working this way. I think there are many people in very bad situations, so I can never complain, and I feel no one should.

There is so much conversation these days about the pressure and stress on people in the industry, about them getting burnt out. What is your opinion about this?

I grew up never hearing my grandmother complain and she never took a day off. She didn’t take any vacations, while we are very lucky these days that we get to take break or time off. Of course, there are many things that we can improve in the kitchens to make them better workplaces. For our teams, we

make schedules in such a way to enable them to work in an agreeable atmosphere, take time off with family. However, gastronomy is gastronomy, and it comes with those pressures. It’s not that I like them but sometimes we need that pressure in the middle of service, in the kitchen, or dining room to work better. Things improve with time, as they have from my grandmother’s time who never went out of the restaurant, whereas I go on holidays and travel.

I think we can improve many things by learning about organization. We chefs are mostly organized, but there is always more room for improvement. Of course, there are long hours in this business, but there are many other professions with such hours.

You are a very creative person. How important is freedom of expression to someone like you?

It’s very important for all humans, since we all have the capacity to be creative. For me, that creative capacity is in cooking, and all human beings through time have always shown this creativity in their cooking. It was in the mix of all cultures, so for me this creative freedom and contact with other people is very significant. When I was younger, I remember I had no compunctions about expressing my creativity. Now I am older and more restrained, but I still have that freedom of expression. A ten-yearold child is very honest with sharing their opinions, unlike older people. I like to ask young children what they would like to eat, and they are never shy in answering. They are not conscious of what they say, and as we get older, we lose that. I feel we should be able to share and express freely at any age.

To express yourself is not so easy, especially for chefs. I learnt to express myself by saying, “Elena, stop thinking and express what you want to say in very simple words.”

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Elena Arzak You are always so positive. How do you handle negativity or criticism?

I learned from my father how to deal with those situations. Of course, like anyone, I get sad when someone says something that I don’t like. Honestly, I react very positively because I feel in order to progress and go far, you need to be willing to accept criticism. There are two kinds of criticisms: one is positive and the other destructive. I feel you need to be able to

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handle all the positive criticism, as long as you teach yourself how to differentiate between the two. If you start to believe that you are the best of the best, then it is not good for your progress. We all make mistakes, and if for instance, you get a comment like, “It was very good but not salty enough,� then it simply means that the seasoning needs adjustment.

Salty Magazine If you had gone out on your own instead of joining the family restaurant and your father, would your life path have been very different?

Looking at it one way, I would say yes. Then it would have been more of myself, but on the other hand, it would have been just as busy and hectic as it is now.

As for having gone out on my own, I cannot imagine my life away from this restaurant.

Coming here is like coming to the dining room or living room of my own home. I see the same faces, personnel and staff who have been here a long time. Even when we change the decor, there are small details like the doors leading into the dining room, which are very old. For me, they are the same doors from 40 years ago, and when I look at them, I feel time has not changed and I am in the same home.

You and your father are consulting on Ametsa in London. Have you ever wanted to open more restaurants?

As we spoke about once earlier, chefs these days have become famous and are like celebrities now. We do get a lot of proposals to consult or open restaurants, not because of our fame but because they like our food.

Chefs need to know for themselves what they want, and in the case of our family, we can do consulting with our team called Arzak Instruction, and we have a few such projects right now.

There are others who can do more projects or open restaurants. It is all a personal preference and attitude. It’s a personality that certain chefs have to do these multiple projects. I respect the chefs who do because they have the capacity for it. If we were all the same, it would be very uninteresting.

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Where do you see yourself five, ten years from now?

Not much will change or be different, except I will cook differently for sure. If you look back ten years from this point, it was all so different, even in Arzak. When I look at pictures of food twenty years ago, I am amazed. In those days, we thought we were super modern, and when I look at those pictures I feel nostalgic, but also realize it was a very old-fashioned way of cooking compared to right now.

You are always so busy working and your family is used to that, but do you build in time for yourself in your schedule?

I know there are times when I miss important events of my family. I feel the transmission of values in my case affects how I view these things. I always think of my parents who are so proud and convinced about what I am

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doing, hence my desire to maintain that pride.

My husband and my children know and understand that there are times when I cannot be there, but when I can I am always with them. I look at it from the point of quality over quantity of time I spend with them.

There are instances, such as when my daughter who plays piano has a recital or concert at school, when I cannot go, but I am thankful for my husband who records it on his phone for me. I am thankful for the technology that allows me to watch those moments when my son is participating in a theatrical performance. Of course, they always ask, “Mama, can you come?” and if I can’t, as is usually the case, I tell them I will be there in spirit.

The amusing thing is if they ask where I am going, and I say, “to the restaurant,” then all is well, but if I say I am going to the cinema, then right away it’s, “And we?”

Salty Magazine As you observe the younger generation of cooks emerging, are there some elements in the industry you feel could or should change?

For me, as you know, gastronomy is the most important part of my life, and in recent years the media, TV, radio, and internet has helped grow the interest exponentially. I am part of this industry, and I feel very happy when it is in the news. I do like the quality, but to me it doesn’t matter if there is competition on reality TV or a show about travel. I feel that regardless, the information will go out to many more people through these channels.

Has such dissemination of information changed the preferences of guests?

A few years ago, not that many people were interested in watching shows about cooking or food travel, and now this has taken audiences a step further. With the variety of options, even I entertain the ability to see shows of my choice. Of course, some people idolize these reality shows, while others take it as a source of information.

When you go out to dine casually what do you look forward to or expect?

I don’t go out much, but when I do, I like quality. I am not so concerned with style. Whether it is contemporary or traditional, I always look for quality first.

It’s also important that it is a friendly and welcoming place and the service is relatively quick. I don’t like to wait too long for food, and whether it is a pintxos bar or a Michelin star restaurant, it has to be good-quality foods foremost.

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Disfrutar

Eduard Xatruch, Oriol Castro, and Mateu Casañas of Disfrutar The DNA of elBulli

by Geeta Bansal

“W

e were the DNA of elBulli,” chefs Oriol Castro and Eduard Xatruch proclaimed one afternoon as we sat in the basement and records office below their bustling restaurant, Disfrutar.

It is not a flippant statement, coming from chefs who spent years working alongside Ferran Adrià and his brother Albert Adrià in the kitchens of a restaurant that forever altered the course of international gastronomy.

The triumvirate of Mateu Casañas, Oriol Castro and Eduard Xatruch first met in the kitchens of elBulli, forming a lasting friendship as they refined their skills with Ferran and Albert Adrià at the restaurant overlooking Cala Montjoi, a bay in the small town of Roses on Catalonia’s Costa Brava. A venerated temple of contemporary haute cuisine, elBulli not only transformed the world of gastronomy but also the trajectory of many chefs’ careers, a number of whom have gone on to open some of the most influential restaurants in the world. Among the graduates of the prestigious establishment: René Redzepi (Noma), Massimo Bottura (Osteria Francescana), Joan Roca (El Celler de Can Roca), and Andoni Aduriz (Mugaritz).

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m The three friends have since struck out on their own, and say they are now fueled by their own creativity. Even though they were the force behind many of the techniques and ideas at elBulli, this time around they are working in their own space, for themselves.

The three chefs first opened the doors to Compartir, a casual contemporary restaurant in Cadaqués, in 2012, not long after elBulli closed in 2011. The three split their time between their new project and working on compiling the Bullipedia, a definitive encyclopedia of gastronomy, at the elBulli Foundation in Barcelona. At the tail end of 2014, they opened the doors at Disfrutar in Barcelona, which has quickly become one of the top gastronomic experiences in Spain. It was then not surprising that Disfrutar won the Miele One To Watch 2017 award on the prestigious World’s 50 Best Restaurants list.

The icing on the cake was the well-deserved second Michelin star that rounded out the restaurant’s stellar year. Then, at the 2018

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awards held in Bilbao, Disfrutar ranked at number 18 in the top 50 restaurants, earning the “Highest New Entry” honor. The modern, playful plates predict an upward trajectory, both in the gastronomic universe and in all the other lists and awards that abound these days.

Two of the three hands-on partners, Eduard and Oriol, work in the kitchens of Disfrutar and live in the vicinity, while Mateu is at Compartir on the Costa Brava. They meet up every week, either in Barcelona or up the coast on their day off. They can also often be found on stage at congresses and chef conferences, sharing their techniques and dishes with fascinating videos that leave their audiences spellbound.

At Disfrutar (“enjoy” in Spanish) a colorful mosaic-lined corridor leads diners from the small bar through the bustling kitchen and into the open, airy dining room. Cautionary note: once the imaginative and enjoyable plates hit the table, accompanied by the unpretentious but professional service (it does have two

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Michelin stars), the surroundings fade away.

Think: an airy brioche filled with caviar, a riff on a corn cob made with foie gras, crispy egg yolk, a gelatin pasta with carbonara foam. Executed tableside are some of the drool-worthy bites on the three tasting menu options. Needless to say, reservations are hard to come by, and if you do snag one, you may recognize a well-known international chef or two at a table near you.

Albert Adrià, who worked closely with them during their time at elBulli, says, “We are like brothers, and I admire them and their work, as they are very creative and hardworking.”

The three friends are humble and welcoming and enjoy sharing their creative techniques with their peers, setting an example for others in the industry. Chefs have big hearts and these three exemplify that, not only in Spain but wherever they travel around the world.

All of these traits and more were on display during our recent talk.

What is modern Spanish cuisine?

E: According to us, our cuisine at Disfrutar cannot be referred to as just creative or avant-garde. It is the kind of cuisine that is actually being cooked in our Spanish kitchens today. What is usually being referred to in this context are restaurants that are just using aesthetics, or where the intent of the cook is just to show his best.

On the other hand, you can be categorized as a modern restaurant for making very “clean” cuisine that enhances the product.

To be creative it is not necessary to use techniques or unfamiliar products, and, for example, you can even be creative with just one almond.

In Spain, and in fact all over the world, people like to visit restaurants serving “creative cuisine,” but people, when they go to such a restaurant, may experience something that was actually created 15 years ago. If they are not aware of this then they presume it

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“We are cooks and chefs from Catalunya and Spain, but we embrace all cuisines and cook in a very free style.�

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“In Spain, and in fact all over the world, people like to visit restaurants serving “creative cuisine,” but people, when they go to such a restaurant, may experience something that was actually created 15 years ago.” to be the creation of that restaurant. There are many such restaurants in Spain that do fall in this category, but not all of them are serious restaurants, even though these days, people know more about kitchens than they did a few years ago.

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O: I would say that to be called a modern kitchen the chef has to first be looking for the best product before anything else, and then the best technique or way to cook it. In Barcelona there are restaurants with great products and their way of cooking them is modern. For example, Extebarri, in the Basque country, is modern cuisine because it has great products that are touched by magic in the kitchen. It is creative because they are constantly making new things but with very ancient techniques like la brasa, or cooking with fire. New things don’t necessarily have to be complicated. On the other hand, there are restaurants that make, what we call, “creative cuisine” like us.

Talking about creativity, what it means is to make new things, and in order to do that you have to discover new products, new concepts, new techniques.

We all do that in our own way. Like Extebarri creates using fire, while Mugaritz uses different specialized techniques. In Spain, we have

Salty Magazine many exceptional restaurants cooking and creating on an elevated level. In fact, we have many magnificent restaurants in Barcelona, with their version of modern cuisine but in their own individual style.

E: It is hard to pinpoint what a modern restaurant is, and this is true of France or US or other parts of the world where there are a lot of different styles. In Spain, on the one hand, you have Paco Morales, who is very modern and creative but is focused on the region of Andalusia.

M: It’s the maximum representation of a kitchen with well-established roots and traditions that has managed to grow from these bases to create a new movement that has really spread throughout the world.

Are you cooking regional cuisine?

E: We are not so regional, so to speak. Then, on the other hand, in some cases we are. For

example, the nuts we use, like the pine nuts, are very Mediterranean, while the suquet is very Catalan, and then we might have laksa or pandan on the menu, products for which we have no regional reference. So, we are free, in that respect, from staying confined to one region. We are cooks and chefs from Catalunya and Spain, but we embrace all cuisines and cook in a very free style.

Your menus incorporate international flavors; is that what you mean by “free style”?

E: Yes, we have ceviche and laksa, a spicy noodle soup from Southeast Asia, so you can say we love the world. We can be inspired by, say, a ceviche from Peru to make a dish. If we come across any product that we like we try to incorporate it into our cuisine in our own way. For us, all that is good. Whether it is a product or technique, it can become a reference for us.

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Disfrutar Have you followed elBulli dogma, or are you on your own journey now?

E: When elBulli closed in 2011, we stayed with Ferran and started work on Bullipedia, and we worked there till November of 2014. Then a month later, on December 2014, we opened Disfrutar here in Barcelona. Compartir was opened in 2012 in Cadaqués while we were still with Ferran Adrià. We were there for 18, 16, and 15 years respectively, a long time, working every day, giving our mind and body to elBulli and our work. That is still our way of working, to always give it our all.

So is your vision similar to elBulli?

E: No, no, absolutely not. We found our own way to make and create new things.

O: We were part of the DNA of elBulli, and we were part of that whole journey to getting the stars, all the way from two to three Michelin stars. We were the creatives at elBulli, but here in Disfrutar, there is no Ferran, no Juli Soler. Here, it’s just us. We are at liberty to exercise our own creativity.

Though we work the same way, this is our only focus and work now. We started the restaurant based on our own skills and creativity, while working from 9 AM every morning until close to get it going.

E: There is no Juli Soler to manage the front, and it’s us all the way, from the dining room to the kitchen, and in the management of the business. Our way of cooking, however, we must point out, has not changed.

Does your ranking on the 50 Best List or the Michelin stars mean guests have higher expectations from you? Is there more pressure now?

E: The difference is that during the time I was at elBulli, where I started in 2008, I went to London with Ferran Adrià to accept the award for elBulli for being the best in

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the world. It was the best, according to the 50 Best list or Michelin guide and all of that, and we were there, working every day, during that period. This time, however, it was for us and our own project.

When we were awarded the One To Watch by 50 Best and placed at #55 in the top 100, then the second star, and this year the #18, we were of course overjoyed, but for us nothing has changed in the way we work. We are of course happy for ourselves and the team, but we don’t dwell on it.

It’s all great, but we move on to the next stage of our work. We enjoy cooking, as the pressure of stars or lists is good for us, and we are happy in our work. We are very real and honest.

Salty Magazine What is your opinion of chefs being on the road for collaborations and getting involved in social projects?

E: It’s nice, but it all depends on the personality of a person. We do what we can but privately, and we have to work hard to pay off all the expenses and costs of establishing our business here. If we have an extra euro, we contribute to where it’s needed.

O: We concentrate on using the best products possible and our creativity, never skimping on that, unlike many kitchens, to save money. We see where we can help to the best of our ability but don’t make grand gestures. My brother has an NGO to provide assistance to the less fortunate, and we help in that and don’t make it public.

E: We don’t have a public platform for contributing or helping. It’s a different level of contribution from those who are well established and been in the business for years. If you have patrons or investors and other businesses making money, then of course you contribute more. There are a lot of important projects that we would at some point like to get involved in. If the economics allow you, then it’s good for chefs to become part of them.

What are the elements you stress most in the kitchen at Disfrutar?

O: We stress using the best products and relying on our creativity. We never ever compromise on the quality of products.

E: Taste, texture and good products are most important. I also think about when my mother comes to eat: she has to like it. That is a test for me.

How long did it take to break even here?

O: We opened and within a month we were very busy, but of course we had a lot of bills to pay and it was difficult. Within three months of opening the restaurant was stable and we broke even.

E: We didn’t take out anything for us but just kept putting it back in the business, as we wanted to build a small cocktail bar in the private area downstairs. Then we changed our mind because we just wanted to focus on creating the best, and so instead of that we created this work area where, as you see, our library and other resources are around us. Now this is where we store all the data of our investigations, our prototypes of plates, etc.

Do you remember the days when guests did not take pictures in the dining room?

O: Yes, that was even the case at elBulli where they did not allow pictures.

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E: In fact, until the last year in 2011, people had to come visit to find out what the cuisine was all about. The exceptions were at congresses like in San Sebastián Gastronomika, when they could watch a demonstration of a dish from elBulli. Now things are so different as we make a dish and the pictures are out all over instantly. If you are a creative person, then your idea is all over the world instantly.

Is all the attention with the second Michelin Star and the 50 Best Restaurants Awards 2018 event in Bilbao good for Spanish cuisine?

E: It probably didn’t, but it’s good that they came to Bilbao, and it’s a good opportunity for restaurant business. It was beneficial for 50 Best too because it’s a great zone for dining, and it’s always good for the restaurants of that region, as well as all of Spain. It’s not just the well-known and established restaurants and the three- and two-stars, but all the local siderias and small restaurants that get exposure. As for impacting Spanish gastronomy, it’s not going to change anything.

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What was the first plate you worked on at elBulli?

E: I remember that the first thing I did when I arrived at elBulli was open mussels. It was not something I had not done before, how after I opened mussels, we put them to boil. At elBulli it was very different, and I was very surprised because all the mussels were selected by size, and we cooked them for eight, five to three seconds depending on the size. This was a very surprising thing for me to see, that for Ferran the precision of cooking and selection of product was an exacting step. The other surprise was to see so many chefs working together, and it was very impressive. When I arrived, we were thirty persons in the kitchen.

O: When I arrived, they put me in a bakery.

And the first thing I did was cut skewer sticks, and I cut myself. I still have the scar on my finger. I cut myself with the scissors and I wanted to die of shame because I had cut myself on my first day. And on top of that I had not cut myself by cooking, but by cutting skewers.

Salty Magazine M: My first work assignment at elBulli was peel some plums, which almost cut me. I went as an assistant, in practice, and I was in the production kitchen of the restaurant, where we developed the tasks of food for staff, preparations for different parties.

What was the routine at elBulli and who came up with the concepts, the whole team or one person?

E: At elBulli we worked like a team, but the final decision was always Ferran’s. For example, Albert was director of the taller and he was brilliant. In the first few years he was in charge of the pastry kitchen and then he began to bring in ideas for the savory kitchen. He also had a say on if a test dish was good enough to pursue or not; however, the final decision was always made by Ferran. We lived at elBulli and worked long hours, but that was the life those days. When elBulli closed during

winter we went to Barcelona and worked in the taller and often went on the road with Ferran for demonstrations and events.

Do you enjoy sharing your techniques and ideas with your peers at congresses and food events?

O: Yes, I do. We enjoy creating new concepts and techniques, and the most important thing of that is to share it with our peers.

And that is one of the differential facts of our gastronomy. It started in Spain, at the end of the 90’s, during the first kitchen congresses. It’s nice to do it and it gives value to everything.

Do you all take turns at going to events?

O: Yes, and it is very enriching because travel enriches and gives an option to know new cultures, as was my last trip to Turkey.

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Disfrutar There we learned about Turkish cuisine and, in fact, today in Disfrutar we have already made some dishes inspired by this trip. And it is also interesting to meet other chefs, who you obviously know, but with whom you don’t get to spend time outside of work, and that is very important and very beautiful.

We also get an opportunity to interact with other speakers and journalists from around the world, since it is also very important to be able to give visibility to our work.

Cuisine has changed so much in the last 20 years. Are there some ingredients or dishes that were beyond imagination even five years ago?

E: The cuisine and the ingredients we use have changed a lot and it’s incredible when you stop to think about it. Recently during a conversation, I remembered that the last year of elBulli in 2011 was only seven years ago, but in that time, gastronomy changed in a huge way. It’s mainly because of the internet, and when we were at elBulli in 2011, I don’t remember being aware of Instagram, Twitter or Facebook. As a result, information about cooking was not so accessible and if you wanted to know what was happening in a certain restaurant you had to travel there, spend money and time, or go to a culinary congress to see a certain technique.

Today what I made in Disfrutar is seen by someone in Japan instantaneously. The fast communication in the last five years has changed everything. The level around the world has increased incredibly. Now people know so much about chefs and restaurants around the world. On one hand it’s great for chefs, while at the same time we have to keep creating, because what you make today is the past the next day. So new creations have a very short life span, and it complicates things for cooks, while gourmets know a lot already about the food. The surprise is lost now, unlike ten years ago when you didn’t see the pictures or read reviews.

Does that make it more difficult to perform up to these diners’ expectations?

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E: As chefs we prefer that they come with a blank state of mind, without knowing too much about the dishes. That makes for a better experience for them, and, on the other hand, there are people who come after reading reviews. But thankfully the pictures do not relay the taste or the smell.

The day that becomes possible, it’s over for restaurants. Until you taste a dish you cannot realize an experience just from a picture, because you need to feel the sensations of the texture, the taste and the flavor.

Why is plating important? Many of your dishes are playful; is that something you aim for?

E: We want people to relax and have fun with food, but for us gastronomy is very very serious, and when we put some fun element in a dish it has to make sense in the dish. For example, in one course we put a little vinegar in a glass that you smell before eating our gazpacho, but it is not just a fun element.

We believe that the taste of the gazpacho changes after you smell the vinegar.

When we put drops of whiskey in your hands it’s another perception of the ingredient. We don’t do these things for effect. That is not our aim because in our culinary work we are very serious about what we do. If we make something that can make people smile it’s okay, but it has to make sense in a culinary manner. If an element does not make sense, then we don’t use it. We are very real and honest in our work and approach.

Fine dining service concepts are undergoing an evolution and while you don’t have linens on the table, the service is very professional.

Are you planning to change this in the near future?

E: No, we are not, because we think each restaurant has its own style and it goes with the style of the kitchen, with the place of business and the design of the restaurant.

What we want at Disfrutar is that the experience is relaxing and enjoyable and

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Disfrutar

“If we make something that can make people smile it’s okay, but it has to make sense in a culinary manner. If an element does not make sense, then we don’t use it.”

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Disfrutar not overly serious. I think service is the face of the restaurant and is the value of the restaurant for the guests. For example, if I am going to Louis XV, Alain Ducasse’s three-Michelin-starred restaurant in Monte Carlo, I will expect to have a fine dining experience in the extreme sense.

However, if I am going to a sushi bar, then I am expecting a different experience altogether. All styles of service are valid, just like styles of kitchen. A Chinese kitchen or a traditional Spanish kitchen can be very good or very bad depending on the service.

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We believe service is very important and should be professional but also very personable. We cannot speak of service in just one way, as it can have variations in style and level and depending on the chef, the style of the kitchen and the atmosphere you are aiming for. There are restaurants that require a jacket and I respect that because perhaps the chef or restaurant owner are aiming for a certain experience and atmosphere.

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Are you planning another restaurant?

O: The service and restaurants style are in constant evolution, just like the kitchen of 50 years ago. I think that the future of fine dining is that it’s open, as now there are sushi bars in Tokyo that have three stars. Michelin has realized that it’s a global experience and varies with the place, cuisine and culture. When people finish a meal, pay the bill, either they are happy or not, and it does not have anything to do with tablecloths, tableware. As the kitchens, styles, ways of life are changing, the guides are changing too.

E: No, we are busy with Compartir, and it’s over three and half years since we opened Disfrutar, and we have a great team and are happy with the quality of food and the great service. We are not businessmen but the kind of chefs who need to be in the restaurant, in our kitchen, cooking for our customers. There is much we can work on right here and we have a lot of projects in the restaurant itself.

You have seen our creative space downstairs that we want to finish this year, and we are also making a new wine cellar. That is our main project for now and every day we try to take one step forward. Maybe in the future we can open more restaurants.

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Salty Magazine Do the three of you work on both restaurants as a team?

E: Mateu lives in Roses and Oriol lives in Sitges, while I live in Barcelona, so it’s convenient if Mateu is in Compartir while the two of us are in Disfrutar. Every week we get together for at least one day and every two weeks Oriol and I go to Compartir while Mateu comes here. Every week when we make a dish, we are all involved.

How has Compartir evolved since 2012?

M: Compartir has evolved being faithful to the philosophy and principles that we consecrated when we opened, which were to be a restaurant of food to share in the center of the table—a restaurant with a dynamic offering, and a very affable room team that is open to deal with the customer. We have aimed to achieve maximum perfection within our limits, in the service and in the quality of the products used in our elaborations.

Do you three have disagreements?

E: Not really, because this is not new for us, since we worked together for a very long time at elBulli. What has changed is that at elBulli we only had to worry about the kitchen but now we have to worry about the whole enterprise. It’s the same in some ways, like how we worked together on projects at elBulli where Ferran was the boss. However, now there is no boss, but we still work in essentially a similar manner. We don’t think we are bosses but just the ones responsible for everything and have to run the team. We are lucky that we are three of us, and as I like to say, we each have two hands, one brain, and then four hands, and two brains more.

We are three people thinking like one and the result is great.

When you work alone it’s hard to make decisions, but all three of us have input into decisions, which are more balanced as a result.

“We are three people thinking like one and the result is great.

When you work alone it’s hard to make decisions, but all three of us have input into decisions, which are more balanced as a result.”

How is service at Compartir different from Disfrutar?

M: Compartir is an à la carte restaurant where the first and second dishes probably determine how we impress the customer.

Our philosophy of customer service and being aware that we are providing a service, is undeniably the same in both of our restaurants. It is true that at the two places, the customers are different, and we adapt our philosophy of service based on the clients, but the basics do not differ much because we all have the same approach in both restaurants.

The most difficult lessons in owning your own business?

E: It was difficult starting from zero to come where we are now. The economic risk was substantial since we don’t have investors. We are all chefs and had to make sure our restaurants were sustainable, and the good thing is, we all had the desire or illusion to reach farther and do better.

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Disfrutar

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Salty Magazine Have the political and economic crises or increasing competition from new restaurants impacted your bottom line this year?

O: Last winter the political problem or the crisis in Spain was something that happened and passed. As for more restaurants every year and the competition they bring, we think it’s healthy and good for our industry.

It’s not really a competition, since it brings in more people to eat in Barcelona.

What do you do on your day off in Barcelona?

E: I am from Tarragona so on my day off or during summer break I head back there with the kids. We usually go to the beach there but in the winter we are here in Barcelona where there is always a lot going on. There are museums, theaters and good food. I have two small kids, so we head to casual restaurants to eat paella or something simple, and for special occasions there are many special places.

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Salty Magazine What are your favorite places to eat on your day off?

What is the new dish you are most excited about at Compartir?

M: Restaurant Cal Campaner in Roses and Alkimia in Barcelona.

M: The egg carbonara with mushrooms. It’s a dish that is 100% Mediterranean, made with products found in close proximity, with amazing organic chick eggs and with our reinterpretation of the classic and traditional Italian sauce, carbonara. It also includes a seasonal product from here, the rovellon mushrooms.

O: I like to eat in some traditional restaurant with my children. I want that them to learn about the different bases and kitchens and let them get an opinion. They have to learn about the diversity of the kitchen.

Quimet I Quimet, by the way, is my favorite restaurant in Barcelona.

Best dining experience this year for you?

E: Tickets, Hoja Santa and Estimar. Tickets is modern cuisine, as is Hoja Santa.

What is the latest dish you are all excited about?

Who is the most serious amongst the three of you? Who is the funny guy?

O: We all have different personalities and it depends on the moment. At work we are strict and serious, but on the other hand, we are open and loving with our employees and guests. We do have fun, as you know.

O: Dishes inspired by and made using Iberian ham. We are now making a cheese from ham. It’s not really a cheese but more like a fresh cheese. We are constantly creating new dishes and this year we have 65 new recipes on the menu.

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Dave Beran

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Dave Beran An Evolving Dialogue in Santa Monica, California

by Geeta Bansal

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Dave Beran

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hef Dave Beran’s 760-square-foot restaurant on the third floor of a mall food court is the antithesis of the splashy fine dining restaurants the glitterati of Los Angeles frequent. The only indication of the cuisine served on the other side of the plain door (that only opens after guests punch in a pre-assigned code) is the collection of infused vinegars that line the small, high windows.

Every square foot of the restaurant is cleverly utilized, and some spaces serve a dual purpose, such as the kitchen counter and tables that are covered for the kitchen prep and then transformed to welcome guests for the dinner service.

A few courses into the kaiseki-style prix fixe meal and the space seems to magically expand as Beran takes your palate on a ride that you wish would never end. The visually stunning creations, plated by the four-member team in full view of the diners, are not only superbly executed but also

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delicious. Often, a subtle dash of humor in the plating hints that while this is serious cuisine, it’s definitely meant to be enjoyed.

All the twenty or so courses from the open kitchen, depending on the season, have Dave Beran’s signature, and in no way do they echo his time at Grant Achatz’s Alinea, nor his five years as chef de cuisine at Next in Chicago. The service is orchestrated within the space limitations, and the wine pairing, if you do decide to spring for it, is very well curated.

As a well-traveled chef and informed diner, he brings new interest to the already diverse Los Angeles dining scene which has been flying under the culinary radar of gastronomes and food travelers. It is an opportune time for the city, as it is attracting internationally renowned chefs by the dozens. Los Angeles diners will soon be making reservations and unfurling napkins at many new restaurants in the exploding gastronomic scene. The deluge of opening announcements in the LA area is

Salty Magazine also making the competition for the market share more intense. It all hangs on the skill and vision of the chefs, especially for restaurants that have succeeded in finding and claiming a niche like Dialogue. Beran has successfully opened a portal into an alternative version of fine dining for Angelenos, and it has been very well received.

story and a lot of thought behind it. The flavor profile and aesthetic consistently evolve, as do the ingredients on the three seasonal menus, encouraging guests to make reservations for the next season. A decadent truffle milkshake on the autumn menu took me back to a playful dish with golden osetra caviar covered with smoke-filled strawberry bubbles.

Beran says, “It is our second year in this city, and we are now adding layers to our concepts as we look back while heading forward. While last year’s progression was based on color, this year it is based on moving through three days of three seasons.

You start with a summer morning and then move through a day in each season and end on a Winter morning. Summer mornings are always colder, so we start with cold flowers to represent a cold morning.”

Currently on the Los Angeles Times 101 Best Restaurants list, it is bound to earn its share of honors thanks to its loyal fan following. According to Beran, this is not the restaurant’s final location; he wanted to fly under the radar, get to know the city and the diners, and build the brand before allowing the restaurant (which he speaks of as if it is a living entity) to grow into what it wants to be and find where it wants to be.

“You have to invest time in the city and its diners and become part of the city,” he says.

The dish that beautifully expresses that idea is a geranium ice layered over lychee and a ginger rice yogurt misted with a rose syrup.

Every bite from his kitchen comes with a back

In several conversations, the well sortedout chef shared his opinions and thoughts about the future direction his kitchen:

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Dave Beran

With so many new restaurants opening in LA, will there be enough business to sustain them all?

I don’t know actually!

I have only lived here for two years. I moved here from Chicago, and now I feel the current LA dynamic is a lot like Chicago in the early 2000s. In those days, in early 2002 to 2003, you had some staple restaurants like Charlie Trotter, Everest, and the Blackbird group who were making cooking cool for younger audiences.

Then all of a sudden between 2003 and 2005 you had this great emergence of restaurants like Alinea. There were former chefs and sous chefs from restaurants all over coming to Chicago, and then the dining scene in the city literally exploded.

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LA kind of feels like that right now, because while you have chefs like Nancy Silverton and Wolfgang Puck, who have been around forever, you also have chefs like Jon and Vinny who are drawing in younger audiences.

The other tradeoff is that to have a great dining scene you have to have great diners.

If they don’t exist, then what you do falls on deaf ears. That dynamic is shifting here in LA because the diners here are looking at us for a ‘scene’ so to speak, as well as more substance. It’s all starting to evolve into a support system from what I have seen.

In my opinion, when everyone moves to one place, some will fall off the train, some will close, some will make it while others won’t—and we hope we will survive it. I think it’s good for the city to have national and international attention and for locals to be elevated to participate in a conversation they were not part of earlier.

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You referred to a story you wrote about the project you envisioned while still working at Next—has that story line evolved or changed?

For sure it has!

I spent about three years writing it—I like writing—and though I am very visual, writing allows me to put my thoughts in order. Incidentally, one of my degrees is in philosophy. I had a conversation with Alex Stupak while he was still at wd~50 in NYC and was planning his Empellón restaurant.

He was hosting investor dinners at his house and people would ask, “What is your restaurant? We understand it’s a Mexican restaurant, but what is it?” He would say it’s kind of like X but not really like Y, or sort of this and sort of that. He told me that he realized that he could not explain what his restaurant was, only what it was like, or how it was unlike another restaurant.

The identity was found in other places.

For example, if I said my casual restaurant was like Gramercy Tavern but it was not descriptive of that particular restaurant, that led to me trying to define what my restaurant was going to be. It was not Alinea, not Next, but I wanted it to be about me. I just started writing down ideas of what my restaurant was like, and my goal was to create something that told the story of my restaurant while not mentioning anything else, so if you read it you understood what it was, and it took three years to do that.

When I finally finished it, at one point in a conversation with Achatz, we thought of doing it together, but I didn’t want to do it in Chicago where there was a lot going on, and we went our ways. Initially the story was going to be my pitch to investors and that was going to be our restaurant.

My partners and I pursued that project very aggressively in downtown LA but that eventually fell through. When that

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Dave Beran

“[A] young chef’s first restaurant is an ego trip, so no way I was going to do a sandwich shop.

Chefs have egos, you know!”

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Salty Magazine happened, I took a step back and thought about it and remembered that whenever anyone came from outside and opened in Chicago, they would fail. Jean-Georges and Wolfgang Puck both opened there and closed. David Burke did too, and part of the reason was when they came in from outside, they did nothing to support the city, so the city was not interested in them, and when my downtown lease fell through, I realized that I was no different. I was going to say, here is my flagship restaurant and everyone should just come.

So, we re-evaluated why we were pursuing this project. Was it for me, for the diners, or the city? At that point, I realized that I had created this great story but had not planted a seed or let it grow or even considered the city I was going to.

We went back to the drawing board and started working on a generic restaurant space for a test kitchen. It was not meant to serve diners, and we only wanted a work space. We chanced upon our present space, which was still under construction. The developer agreed to build out a test kitchen and office space for us. That conversation raised the subject of rent, and a proposal, since it’s in a food court, to do a sandwich shop during the day. But a young chef’s first restaurant is an ego trip, so no way I was going to do a sandwich shop. Chefs have egos, you know!

The original concept had high-end à la carte and also a fine dining restaurant with a separate kitchen. It was the idea of a restaurant within a restaurant, and you walked through the first to get to the second.

I thought that since fine dining is my passion, so what if we took this space and stripped the concept down to bare bones to discover our identity. We figured it out from the food and service perspective—let’s see how the diners react, building relationships with the city along the way. We decided to skip the crazy PR push, no opening announcements, etc. Let’s just open quietly and become a neighborhood restaurant.

Initially it was going to be a three-day test kitchen, but at the last minute I thought that if a guest was paying $250 per person and we called it a test kitchen, then the impression would be that the chef does not think it’s as good as it should be. No one goes to a pop-up or test kitchen and says it’s an amazing meal. We want to be a serious restaurant that just happens to be located where it is.

So what was the process? And is the evolution ongoing?

We went to five days a week and brought in a food-and-beverage program, additional cooks, and this is version one at present of the fine dining restaurant I want to create.

A restaurant may be perfect on paper, but you never know what it wants to be. It’s a living, breathing thing, and if I expect diners to walk in in T-shirts and flip flops and buy the best wine on the list, am I going to fight it? Say, get out, you are not in a suit—or embrace it?

So we thought, this is stripped down enough that we have to be careful about pulling out a chair for a client due to space limitation, so we need to sacrifice some elements of service. The tradeoff is: how well can we craft a guest’s experience in such a minimal space, only 760-square-foot, and still create a great experience. Since we have counter service, I interact more with the guests, and the initial thought was that I would learn about LA diners, but in reality, I am learning so much about diners in general. As a chef, you hide in the kitchen and don’t get that interaction. At Alinea or Next, we would meet diners only if they were on a kitchen tour or while drawing on the table at Alinea. From the front of the house, you hear either about the best guests or worst guests, and on the kitchen tour you only meet the cool guests anyway.

Here’s the thing: no cook at a restaurant is ready to run their own restaurant. I’m not.

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“Here’s the thing: no cook at a restaurant is ready to run their own restaurant. I’m not.”

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Salty Magazine LA restaurants are a glaring omission on Best-of Lists, and even the Michelin guide stepped away in 2010. With new restaurants and chefs featured on these notorious lists and many toting Michelin stars coming into town, will they focus more attention on LA? There are rumors that Michelin will head back and of the possibility of there being a separate California guide. While I was the chef at Alinea, we got three Michelin stars, which was a big deal. When we opened Next, I was in a unique situation as we were told they were not going to rate us, so though it was annoying, there was no pressure at all. Here in LA, it has been interesting because, though the guide is not there, people talk about it. I feel that there is enough potential now that it has got to bring them here. People are traveling to LA to dine as opposed to just traveling here for entertainment.

The LA dining scene, in the four years I was visiting here before deciding to move here, has changed.

A restaurant like Vespertine would not have been possible five years ago. A tiny place like Dialogue could not have existed five years ago, especially inside a food court.

We are charging $245 per person for our 24-course tasting menu. I think the whole dynamic of the shift and its evolution as a dining scene is going to draw a lot of attention. And honestly, we have some of the best produce I have seen in the country.

Does Michelin still command more respect than other accolades, or the ever-emerging lists?

There are so many lists: the Traveler, OAD, La Liste, etc. I don’t honestly know what has more weight. The challenge for Michelin, at least looking from the outside, is to justify how they rate. I have never met a Michelin inspector, but a lot of times you look at restaurants that are elevated to their level, as compared to others, and it is hard to understand. Noma, for example, had two Michelin stars, and no one knows if they ever will be three stars or even if they want to be. The same is the case of Mugaritz. The question is: are they the best restaurants in the world?

I would argue that they certainly have the most influence on the global dining scene and you can draw the line from the elBulli influence. For example, from the time people started putting foam on the plate, to the Noma influence of rustic plates, and everything being very flat and on the minimal side with a puddle of sauce in the middle—that is like 2010 Noma. You can trace those lines just about everywhere with handmade plates and similar plating styles like that. So, it is fair to say that their work has more influence globally than someone getting a star.

Frantzén’s chef was in recently and they just got the third star, but he said they were always busy even before that. It’s important to be in the conversation of all these rating systems even though you may have no stars, and yet be on the top of one list while not in the same position on another.

Aren’t the lists very misleading these days? Especially how the rating systems work? In the 50 Best there are forty voters in each region, with six votes in their own region and four outside, so is that fair?

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Dave Beran

We get emails saying “We are a reviewer for such and such list…,” and they want a comped dinner. We do know that if they were really a reviewer, they would not say that. If I do a work trip and I have great meals in France, then all my votes will go to France. The next year I go to Spain, Brazil, or even Northern California, then all the votes would go to restaurants there. If I only have so much time to travel, then my votes would end up in one region only.

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go to conference after conference, so they become the most experienced voters. If I do only one conference per year, say, for example, in Mexico City, all my votes would go there. It’s very interesting how it all works.

Do these lists really define the collection of the Best Restaurants?

Do they tend to be more PR influenced? Are the lists becoming bottom heavy, with notable restaurants in the bottom?

It’s an eighteen-month period during which the voters can visit and cast their votes. Is that too long a period, since the menus and concepts of food and service are so fluid?

There are many more genres of restaurants, fine dining, tasting menus, etc. that are not differentiated in many of these lists. Yes, they are PR influenced.

When I was a voter at my time at Alinea, we would go on one big world trip every eighteen months. One year it was Spain, another Denmark, Japan and so on, so all of our votes went to that one world trip.

Then there are chefs who are doing food conferences all over the world and not necessarily working in restaurants. They

All of the restaurants considered are great on their own. As far as the restaurants at the bottom end of the list, it’s similar to the twoMichelin- and three-Michelin-star situation.

They are all working hard, and it’s almost like the 50 Best list is less about the 50 Best and more about the 50 most relevant restaurants in the world for that year.

Salty Magazine Is it also the ones spending more on media and traveling more—one day Bangkok, the next Moscow, and two days later London?

That is true, and what’s happening in their restaurants when they are gone? As for us, if I am not here, we close.

The whole thing is, if I’m better and you’re better, then we can make each other better.

You hope that if Michelin comes here, and

there’s only one three-Michelin and only one two-Michelin, that someone else gets a higher rating—because it just makes the whole city better. You don’t want to be there saying, “I’m the only one! I won!”

We have a list of cities I’ve been to and places that I’ve enjoyed in each city, and someone will email us asking for recommendations and I’ll just forward that whole list. You know which places offer certain experiences, what to order at this one, etc.

“You hope that if Michelin comes here, and there’s only one three-Michelin and only one two-Michelin, that someone else gets a higher rating because it just makes the whole city better. You don’t want to be there saying, ‘I’m the only one! I won!’”

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Dave Beran Are food critics and writers who have not traveled much or are not that savvy about food qualified to write about it?

If they think what we do is negative, we can sit down, and we can talk about it and try to figure out how to make it not negative next time. You know, maybe you hated a dish, and maybe everything you talked about told us that we didn’t

connect with you with that dish. You know, a good example is Noma had this dish back in 2010 that was all little pickled vegetables rings, looked like a line of pasta, had a little beef broth, some pork broth, and a little piece of beef bone, and I ate that dish, and I thought it was perfectly fine. I didn’t think it was great; I didn’t think it was terrible. It was just okay. I had dinner with Chef Daniel Burns at 50 Best two months later and he had eaten there three nights earlier, and he had that exact same dish, and he could not stop talking about it. It was so mind-blowing and so over-the-top for him, and I just told him, “I don’t get it. It makes no sense to me.” Then he told me that when he was younger, his grandmother used to make pork shank stew and do it with all the pickled vegetables from their cellar, and that dish at Noma was her pork shank stew.

So it triggered a memory for him.

And that’s when it occurred to me that—I mean, that wasn’t the moment—but it was one of the moments you start to realize that food is more than just one ingredient. If I had been shed a little light by a foreigner, having never had that experience or understanding, then that would have been a revelatory dish for me as well. It only became important because Daniel Burns explained his perspective on it months later, and you know, for us, i f you don’t connect with a dish and you write about why you didn’t connect, you either didn’t like it because A: You didn’t care for the flavors, and I can’t help that. If you think that fish is the grossest thing in the world, any kind of fish, and I serve you a fish dish and you say it was gross, then there’s nothing either of us can do.

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Salty Magazine Is that where cultural relativity comes into play?

Right. I mean, if I serve an Italian person peanut butter and jelly, then explain to them my perspective on it, then even if their perspective is not similar to mine, maybe it inspires a story. If I serve you a rose course, and I tell you about my grandfather’s rose garden—you don’t care about my grandfather, that would be weird—but maybe it inspires you, the diner, to talk about your grandfather. Or maybe you talk about roses from your perspective. Now you’ve connected with that dish, not because you care about what I say, but because I got you to care about something in your own life. So, if a review with negative thoughts on the dish comes out, maybe we didn’t do a good job connecting with the diner, and the question becomes: how can we connect with the next diner in a better way?

“Now you’ve connected with that dish, not because you care about what I say, but because I got you to care about something in your own life.”

So should food critics not be criticizing food? Should they be drawing a roadmap for your dining experience that tells you the turns and twists that are coming, without telling you whether it’s good or bad?

Critics are always interesting, too, because of the dynamic of our relationship with the diners, aside from, say, Jonathan Gold, who I knew for a while—he even helped me research for a Chinese menu we did, so I was not afraid to just go chat with him. When I did a duck press dish for him, I served him duck press sauce from the first round that was two hours old, and then the fresh one that was just made, so he could see the difference because I had a relationship with him. Bill Addison when he ate here was just a normal guy, even though we knew who he was.

He just had a normal conversation with us, and from my understanding he had an

awesome meal. Sometimes the critics come in and they don’t want to talk to you. They don’t want to make eye contact with you.

They don’t want you to know that they’re there. I think that, in that way, they are influencing their experience in a negative manner because of how they are acting.

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Dave Beran

Do you think that in some ways these critics try to purposely create a negative experience in order to get more clicks?

Sure. I mean, Ryan Sutton is a great example. Like throwing daggers at things that don’t really matter. Like when he made a comment about the temperature of caviar. Sometimes caviar, when it’s a little above ice cold, has a different dynamic of flavor. It’s like when you say, this wine is too hot or too cold. Well, is it too hot or too cold because it didn’t work with the course at that temperature, or is it because you only like drinking at a certain temperature that you’ve been told is correct? I mean, we intentionally serve two of our pairings too cold, so that they pair better that way with the dynamic. The acid will form in the first course, and we serve it in a really wide bottom flat glass so it heats up faster, so that it’s warmer and sweeter and thinner by the next course. Yeah, we know it’s too cold—but that’s the point.

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RenĂŠ Frank

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Salty Magazine

René Frank It’s About Happiness at CODA, the Dessert-Only Restaurant in Germany

by Geeta Bansal

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hef René Frank has added a new dimension to the bar culture of Berlin, albeit in a sophisticated dessert bar in the Neukölln district of the city. The gentrifying area was not known as a gastronomic destination—that is, not until CODA (a nod to the closing section of a musical composition) opened shop in the neighborhood.

A hip, artsy area, streets lined with Gründerzeit-period buildings, the district was intentionally chosen for the project; in recent years it has become a pre-club pit-stop full of art galleries, avant-garde eateries, and fashion and design studios targeting the art-loving party crowd. Ethnic eateries sit alongside fine dining concepts, and the evening and weekend events attract the ideal crowd ready to experiment and frequent the more innovative businesses.

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René Frank

The first and only dessert restaurant in all of Germany has no doubt realized a longstanding dream of Chef Frank, the former chief pastry chef at three-Michelinstarred La Vie in Osnabrück. Along with designer and business partner Oliver Bischoff, he has created a sleek minimalistic space with shell limestone tables to serve his sweet elaborations in a seven-course tasting menu. The chef, who originally started on the savory side, has not only added snacks but also unique cocktails to pair with his sweet confections. When asked if it was challenging to sell this new concept to the Berliners, he said “Developing a new concept in our first two years, especially a concept that is unknown or unconventional, was a challenge.”

The delicious light confections are definitely not based on traditional German desserts, as René takes a more global approach. Watching him work with overripe bananas and cocoa cream, I asked about his choice of the ingredients. He said, “Using ripe bananas is a technique for creating sweetness in the dessert. Sugar is

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always sugar, no matter where it comes from, but in this instance unrefined natural sugar is high in minerals and fiber, so the use of naturally occurring sugars means you can do without industrial sugar, and it keeps the final product from being a calorie bomb.”

Calorie bombs they might not be, but they are explosions of taste and flavor with an added dimension of unexpected textures.

It took him 18 years of working in kitchens around the globe to be able to pursue his passion in this space. A serious chef with a most engaging smile and a personality to match, he says that the personality traits most suited to this vocation are: “Discipline, precision, attention to detail, and respect.”

Albert Adrià, one of his culinary idols, said about the pastry artist, “I watched his work at a culinary event when he was presenting along with me, and he is very impressive.

I have not visited his place but hope to do so one day”—an accolade that is certain to please René a tad more than the rest of those he has earned in his impressive career.

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“Sugar is always sugar, no matter where it comes from, but [...] unrefined natural sugar is high in minerals and fiber, so the use of naturally occurring sugars means you can do without industrial sugar, and it keeps the final product from being a calorie bomb.�

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RenĂŠ Frank

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Salty Magazine Is there a renewed interest in patisserie in the last few years?

Yes, definitely. Around 15 years ago it wasn’t being talked about so much, but today there is much more attention paid to pastry since Albert Adrià started the revolution in restaurant pastry. You see it represented a lot more in the media and TV; for example, the pastry-themed season of Netflix’s Chef’s Table and shows such as The Great British Bakeoff, etc.

What made you decide to open a “dessert only” restaurant? Did you see the market potential for it?

I felt it was finally time that desserts were given the stage for a solo performance.

Pastry has finally grown up; it’s no longer just the little brother tagging along behind all the big brothers (the sweet course at the end of a tasting menu). Modern pastry is becoming a new frontier where there is unlimited space to experiment and explore

“Pastry has finally grown up; it’s no longer just the little brother tagging along behind all the big brothers.”

and apply classic techniques in new and fascinating ways.

In addition to this, most of my formal training has been as a chef before I studied as a pastry chef, so being able to work with ingredients which are unconventional in pastry and rethink desserts as main courses, satisfying in their own right, has allowed me the opportunity to bring both of these worlds together. In order to continue the revolution in the dessert realm, getting people to eat them is the first step.

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René Frank Can you share the evolution of this project?

The concept of CODA had to be developed entirely from scratch, so it has definitely gone through an evolution process since we opened two years ago. At first, we started with serving desserts à la carte, but now we offer a seven-course tasting menu with cocktail pairings. This is what we needed to do to help get rid of the preconception that dessert is just a sweet final course. Throw people into the deep end, so to speak, and at the end of the menu, they really do get it.

There is now a lot of demand for a sevencourse menu. As with any new concept, the process has been very organic, and we had to take risks along the way.

Describe the ambiance and the selection of serveware—any custom plates or glasses for the pairings?

Our ambience is very much driven by attention to detail and originality. CODA’s interior has been designed by my business partner, Oliver Bischoff, who is one of Berlin’s leading restaurant designers, and this is a culmination of his passion for high-quality aesthetics and his experience. Almost everything in the restaurant is custommade and comes from local suppliers, from the tableware right down to the tables, which are made of shell limestone sourced from Brandenburg, to the ceramics, which are handmade by a woman in her ceramics and porcelain studio around the corner in our neighborhood, Neukölln. The textiles, such as the leather furniture, the curtains, etc., are made by a craftsman in the neighboring district, Kreuzberg. A lot of thought has been put into making sure the creative spirit and craftsmanship of the food—dishes that are labor intensive, everything made in-house and with special techniques to reduce sugar, etc.—goes hand-in-hand with the ambience.

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Salty Magazine You play off the natural sugars and abstain from using additives. What is the thought process behind this? Is it health inspired or—?

My belief is that an excessive amount of industrial sugar should not define what is a dessert. After all, our passion as chefs and pastry chefs is artisanship. Using industrial sugar limits artisanship. In desserts, using sugar and fat as a preservative is going out of fashion. Only in the past were these ingredients needed to increase the shelf life of pralines, baking, etc., but that’s not the case in a restaurant where you order a dessert and eat it on the spot.

So, it comes from a place of modernization, but health is also definitely a motivation. We know a lot more now than we did back then about how negative the long-term effects of sugar and fat on the body really are.

Can you elaborate on the “bean to plate” concept?

A surprising amount of chocolatiers purchase large blocks of chocolate from companies and melt them to create confections. These quantities are typically not pure cacao and include high amounts of added sugar and fat. Back in the day, sugar and fat were used as preservatives, but these ingredients are not only unhealthy; they limit our artisanship.

So that’s why there is a new trend of chocolate makers who work “bean to bar” and prefer to start with raw cacao beans to have more control over quality and flavor.

That’s how the term “bean to plate” came about. This term describes my approach to desserts, pralines, and our philosophy at CODA. Raw single-origin cacao beans are sourced from fair-trade suppliers and are handled in a labor-intensive process to become chocolate used for certain dishes.

It allows us to have more control over the taste, quality, and overall final product.

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René Frank You borrow ingredients and techniques from other cultures, so are your sweet creations cross-cultural?

The inspiration for how we work in the kitchen comes from all over the world, and I have picked up a lot of techniques from my travels. In the Czech Republic, a charcoal grill is used for cake-baking, and we use a charcoal grill regularly in our kitchen, and the use of umami in desserts is present in a lot of different cultures. For example, in Turkey there is tavuk göğsü, a dessert from the Ottoman times made with chicken breast.

Ten years ago, I spent six months working in Japan, which is how I learned about amazake, a traditional, sweet low-alcohol Japanese drink made from fermented rice that has been around since 300 or 400 AD. It’s the same fermentation technique used

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to make miso, soy sauce and sake, and we use it at CODA as a technique to create natural sweetness. Another recipe is our pork-skin popcorn snack, which is inspired

by Spanish pastry chefs who render pork fat into biscuits and cakes such as ensaïmada.

I have family in Mallorca and once had the opportunity to watch a pastry chef make ensaïmada at his local bakery, which helped to inspire this on our menu.

How and why did the idea of serving cocktail pairings come about?

Alcohol has a longstanding history in sweet courses, with dishes such as baba au rhum, tiramisu, etc. So, to have cocktail pairings is a means of deconstructing tradition. The cocktail pairings become part of the dish, and the same energy goes into developing it as a true component.

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RenĂŠ Frank

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Germany is not the first country or culture that is associated with the art of pastry, so was it more challenging for you to make a mark internationally while being based in Germany?

Every country has its own specialties and unique approach to pastry, whether it’s an apfelstrudel in Austria or the crème brûlée in France. Germany’s approach to pastry is very much based in tradition—rich flavors, dense baking, all the hearty stuff just like out of Oma’s kitchen. This is why there is a fantastic opportunity in Germany especially for pastry to be reconceptualized. So it is challenging, but at the same time, Germany is also the perfect place for this concept to flourish because Germans are particularly driven by healthy eating and environmental awareness. Sustainability is a big topic here, and culturally we care about where our products come from, so that’s why a concept like ours—seasonal ingredients, high-quality ingredients, no artificial ingredients or refined sugars—is particularly interesting for Germans, and this understanding and platform at home, also being Germany’s first and only dessert restaurant, helps us to progress internationally.

At one time Germany had eleven three-Michelin-starred restaurants, yet it was never looked upon as a gastronomic destination. What is the reason for that?

Around 20 years ago, Germany was the country with the most Michelin stars after France, but it was because German fine dining restaurants had taken on and become adept at classic French cuisine. Germany is

known as an innovative country. What we are talented at is precision and perfectionism but in gastronomy; this has contributed to us losing sight of our own food culture and cooking traditions. First German fine dining embraced French cuisine, then Spanish molecular avant-garde, then Japanese cuisine, and now finally German gastronomy is starting to come into its own and take inspiration from right here at home. So of course, even though Germany had threeMichelin-starred restaurants at that time, nobody really wanted to come to Germany to eat French cuisine.

Do you attract a younger clientele or the more food obsessed and informed?

Our clientele is totally mixed and comes from around the world. Usually people who are passionate about food, creativity and out-of-the-box experiences are all drawn to our concept.

You have spent time in some of the finest kitchens in the world. Which kitchens or chefs left a lasting influence?

My six months working in Japan ten years ago has been instrumental in how I think about umami in the kitchen. Chef Seiji Yamamoto at Nihonryori Ryugin [three Michelin stars] in Tokyo and Chef Yoshihiro Murata at Kikunoi [three Michelin stars] in Kyoto have both taught me so much about the necessity of umami in dishes, and its importance as a taste. As humans we don’t need meat, but we do need that rich savory flavor.

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René Frank

“German gastronomy is starting to come into its own and take inspiration from right here at home.”

Who are the pastry chefs you follow or admire amongst the younger generation?

Since modern pastry has really only come about in the last 15 years, there are a lot of chefs that are far into their careers in terms of experience, but are still of the younger generation, nonetheless. Chefs such as Albert Adrià, Jordi Roca, Will Goldfarb (we did a pop-up event in Berlin this summer), and Alex Stupak.

Are gastronomic events good for sharing ideas and generating business? What would be the ideal scenario?

Yes, it’s definitely a good opportunity to generate interest, especially for a restaurant like ours with just 30 seats. In just 30 minutes of presenting at such an event, you can have access to a thousand people. Ideal scenario would be just an event with people from all over the world who are interested in gastronomy and are open-minded about it.

What is your favorite traditional dessert?

Tavuk göğsü, a dessert from the Ottoman times made with chicken breast. It has a very light umami flavor so that you don’t taste it, but you know there’s something interesting going on.

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Any new holiday desserts?

Nothing holiday-inspired, but seasonal.

Dishes such as the sweet potato with sour cream, five-spice and braised mango, or charcoal-grilled Elstar apple with shallot jam and semi-dried sultanas. Both really inspire a winter feeling.

Is whimsy an element in your creative process? Are you relaying a message or attempting a dialogue with your guests in your creations?

A German food magazine once wrote: “René Frank is like his dishes: professional, but always with a wink of the eye,” and I do think this is quite accurate. Our dishes use a lot of bright colors. Our platings tend to be very playful, and we just generally think of food as something for the soul that also sparks the imagination.

I think, how can we give you something in a dessert that’s completely unexpected?

That’s why we use ingredients such as anchovy, put fruits on the charcoal grill, make caramelized pork popcorn, etc. We’ve also put a lot of time and effort into ensuring that our dishes are low in calories, so you don’t feel tired and heavy after the menu, but energized and ready to go out dancing.

Good health is about what goes into the stomach. It’s about happiness.

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New Openings

New Openings The lines snaking down ritzy Regent Street during opening week to the Hotel Cafe Royal indicate a roaring success for acclaimed pastry chef Albert Adrià’s new Cakes & Bubbles venture in London.

The culinary mastermind has finally gone back to his true love: pastry—but with a lighter touch that relies on fruits such as mandarins, pineapples, and papayas for their natural sugars. Albert Adrià says, “One day I just woke up thinking, ‘Why don’t I make a new project with pastry again?’ and the result is Cakes & Bubbles.”

Health-conscious sweet lovers can enjoy a light-as-air eclair (weighing a mere 12 grams), or finally be able to bite into the famous Adrià cheesecake, which is making its first international debut outside his Tickets Bar in Barcelona. The diminutive cheese wheel is encased in a hazelnut and white chocolate shell and tied up in a branded ribbon. This sweet and savory confection is best enjoyed with a flute of champagne while seated at one of the marble-topped tables in the golden-walled room.

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Salty Magazine The Adrià technique has also created what promises to be another standout dessert on Instagram images: Swiss roll and chocolate-ice-cream-filled “corks” that sit upon a gold-plated base made from a bottle of bubbly cut in half and decorated with the Cakes & Bubbles logo.

The bubbles refer to the selection of sparkling wines that range from the finest of French labels to prosecco and even an English brand. As for his pastries, Cakes & Bubbles is not a patisserie, mind you.

Rather, his dishes are what Adrià calls “a classic base with my own signature.”

Cakes & Bubbles 70 Regent Street London, W1B 4DY +44 (0)20 7406 3310 https://www.cakesandbubbles.co.uk/

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New Openings

The heat at Chef Joshua Skenes’ newly launched seafood-centric Angler restaurant in San Francisco comes from more than just the 30-foot-long hearth lying front and center.

This debut from the chef of three-Michelinstarred Saison has set the food world on fire with his take on sustainably-sourced seafood and game in the 100-seat restaurant. The unassuming chef, usually off hunting and fishing, is in his element surrounded by hunting trophies of fish and game, and the menu encompasses everything from sea cucumber, king crabs, and purple-hued sea urchin, to elk tartare and rabbit legs, all modestly priced considering the high quality of ingredients. Specially-designed fish tanks provide a fitting aquatic habitat for the fresh seafood from the Pacific delivered daily by fishermen with whom Skenes has had long established relationships.

The views of the Bay Bridge and San Francisco Bay across the way provide the perfect setting for digging into fresh Parker rolls with the iconic Saison caviar and

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sipping from a five-ingredient killer cocktail or a glass of vino, which may be delivered in a Gabriel-Glas or Zalto glass. In addition to a bar in the main dining room, the “game room” and bar lined with taxidermy trophies has a tome worthy selection of wines for oenophiles. The intended vibe is casual, but its suited service team suggests otherwise.

The old-world style serveware, however, is certain to make guests feel at home. The next iteration of Angler is set to open soon in Los Angeles, and considering the reception the concept has received, it may also show up in other food hubs around the country.

Angler 132 The Embarcadero, San Francisco, CA 94105 (415) 872-9442 www.anglerrestaurants.com/san-francisco/

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