Evaluating an Individual’s Placement in Academia Sana Karnawat and Megan Elizabeth Integrative Seminar 2 - Bridge 2: Universityopia Claire Donato March 6, 2018
Introduction I met Will last Fall during the first semester of our freshman year. He was in my Space/Materiality class and we bonded over our lack of skills and knowledge about the tools. Will was also in one of my roommate’s classes during the same semester. She got to know him as a friend too, and she was the one who suggested that I should interview Will for his particular assignment. bell hooks’ concept of students and professors regarding one another as “whole” human beings, striving not just for knowledge in books, but knowledge about how to live in the world, is something that reminded me of Will’s way of thinking. Will is a very easy going, casual and generous guy. His manner of speaking and his attitude, both have very cool and relaxed vibes. I think Will brings a great contrast to our other interviewee. Will’s fashion design interests and Adam’s astrophysics PHD form an interesting juxtaposition. We set out to identify each one’s holistic educational experience through our questions. Our questions mainly focused on their personal values and their relations to the institutions they belong to. I went into this assignment with an open mind, curious to know about these two interesting and totally different individuals. I did not make any assumptions about either of them beforehand. As I was transcribing the interviews I realized the importance of keeping each one’s style intact. Their personalities should be imbued in these transcriptions for the reader to understand what they are like. I cannot remember how I first met Adam. If you ask him, Adam cannot tell you how he came to meet himself. In fact, Adam is not even Adam. He asked me to use a fake name for this interview. I agreed. Adam and I have known one another since October. His story fascinated me, but what drew me in more was his reluctance to tell it. Imagine rummaging around an old attack or the
archives of a community library. Dust specks twinkle and dance in front of a sun-kissed window. The air is thick with musk and silence. Now, in the room full of clutter and withered pages, there is an old manuscript, a priceless first edition, or perhaps an old diary of a beloved person long forgotten. As the heart writhes with anticipation and the eyes open with the heart, the body prepares to digest the text. Only, there is one problem. The ink has withered away with the sands of time. Adam is this remarkable discovery. His aching heart has caused the ink of his story to blot, fade, and sometimes, unfortunately, disappear altogether. Adam was born in Utah and was raised Mormon. He moved to New York City to obtain his PhD in Physics after receiving his bachelor’s degree in the subject in his home state. As he explained, his program has a direct line to a PhD rather than a Masters. When I had previously asked him, what made him change his mind about his faith, he told me, “for sixteen years, I would pray every night. It would always start with wishing for my family to be happy. I thought about what I was praying for, and then I thought if my family was actually happy. They weren’t.” When I asked him what he wanted now, he said, “I want more science.” In the words of Bell Hooks, “to educate as the practice of freedom is a way of teaching that everyone can learn.” Adam and I have had lengthy conversations about the role our early education played in our psychological development. When I was preparing interview questions, particularly for Adam, I wanted to ask him focused on the development in his education. I wanted to know how he interpreted his peers, professors, and the subject matter of his classes. I knew there would be a contrast between his conservative, religious upbringing and his urban, liberal surroundings now. However, I wanted to know just where Adam saw these differences, what felt different to him, or, if he felt the same.
Will: Will is a genuine human being with no complex personality. Although his style of talking includes a lot of words being used repeatedly, and coming from Korea his grammar is not the best, it is easy to understand him and his ways. His coolness isn’t obvious, but it can be felt when around him. There is a rarity nowadays, in the authenticity of people and Will reminds us of its existence. Interview Will walked into the area we chose for conducting our interview, in a white shirt and black blazer. His dressing sense has always been in perfect accordance with his major: fashion design. He walked up to us and asked my project partner for gum. He desperately wanted to chew on gum before speaking for us. “I guess for me, my personal values echo louder than Parsons’ values. I guess I’m like more self-centered. I think. I don’t have like a right way or something, you know? I just feel that my personal values are stronger. It’s not like if you’re going to Parsons your life is all set. It’s more about your self-investment than like, “Oh, I’m just going to Parsons.” After Parsons, you have to like get a job and need to be kind of self-centered. Like, “How am I going to survive after this school, what am I going to do?” So yeah, I don’t think it’s self-defense it’s more of just like your self-investment.” He thought for a while before talking again. He didn’t pause too long, but just enough to kind of compose his thoughts. “I think my personal value would be being authentic, like being honest. I think not only for the fashion industry but like looking at life itself I think relationships are the most important
things. But then if you’re fake or you’re just like you know, not authentic, I feel like that can ruin not only your career but also your personal life. That’s how I feel. I totally see this value reflected at parsons. I’m comparing it to my classmates and I just feel like every person has a different personality but like I can see some of them, they act fake or just like, you know? I just don’t get really close to them because I just don’t want to have all these like, “Why did you lie to me about that?” or something like that. So, I’m more drawn to people who are like authentic and honest. {What do you register as fake?} Just like the vibe. You can just tell from their vibe. For example, we had Brooklyn Beckham in our class last semester and I just like don’t care about his fame you know? I look at him like just another person. But like my classmates were trying to make friends with him because he’s famous and all that stuff. I just don’t like that you know? I don’t want to be friends because he’s famous, it’s more like if he’s nice and all then I’ll be friends.” He explained this to us like we were all friends hanging out in our usual spot. With the friendly attitude and comfortable gestures, he didn’t seem like an interviewee. “My friend group at Parsons is very diverse in race and gender. We drink, we drink a lot. That’s the true thing. Whenever we hang out, we would just like drink and like just get drunk. That’s what we actually do. We’re all fashion students. But like we love to be more diverse, it just happened to be this way. I’m open to being friends with anyone from another field. I cannot really relate to the New School as a whole because like all my friends are from Parsons. But yeah, I could totally see my value reflected in Parsons. I didn’t really consider this as factor while applying to Parsons. I just applied to Parsons because it’s in New York City and
you know it’s like one of the really famous design schools. I do feel that my values are tested at Parsons because this is like college. If this was high school, I feel like it might affect in some other ways because that’s such a small community. But this is like New York City and also the buildings – we don’t have a campus – so it feels like such a wide community compared to high school and all. I also think Parsons has the value of honesty because like with the professors, one of the things I was shocked at first when I came to Parsons was that if your work is really bad they’ll actually say it looks shitty as fuck. I was just like, “Wow, they don’t have any filters.” They won’t say like, “Oh it’s nice but you could’ve done better.” They’ll just say it’s bad or it’s good. I feel like it could hurt some people if you’re very introverted but I feel like it’s better to like say things straightforward because it’s like design.” Sounding like a rant, his monologue made him look very connected to his straightforward beliefs. He sat up and cleared his throat. “I probably spend the most time in the Parsons building and feel most comfortable in the classrooms. That’s like the only space that you spend a lot of time in. At least for me because I don’t really go to the Making Centre or you know? I think that’s what makes me feel comfortable there. I feel quite at home in the dorm. I also like going to the Highline. My dorm is near the Highline so I just like go there a lot. I just go there to like grab food or draw. It feels natural and super comfortable you know? I even like some coffee shops that I go a lot and like do my work there. My dorm is like one of the most unknown dorms. But I live there with like a roommate so yeah, I like it. Thank God, my roommate and I share the same values. Basically, we’re the same person. So, we just know like what’s going to make each other mad or like make each other happy. We’re just able to control a lot of that. I chose my roommate by random and luckily it just
worked out. My earlier roommate had to move out so like this new roommate came and we were like anyway closer. My roommate and I still talk a lot in general so we found a balance. This might sound very like stereotyped, but I think the image of a Parsons student is just like that of a hipster: baggy jeans, Doc Martins, like bleached hair or like some tattoos. Like I could see that this person goes to Parsons. And whenever I talk to one, he or she actually is a Parsons student. I see myself like people don’t really think I go to Parsons. They think I’m like a businessman or something because I really like dressing up super formally. So, I don’t like see where I am in Parsons at this point. It’s weird because I don’t want people to know that I go to Parsons when I’m in New York City but when I’m in like Korea or somewhere outside of New York City I’ll wear like a Parsons t-shirt or something like that. When you’re here, I’ve seen a lot of people like wearing the Parsons tote bag or whatever and I feel like if I also wear it it’s like too … basic. I don’t want to say that out loud hear. But then when you’re outside no one wears like Parsons t-shirts so there it’s like my pride. It’s like, “Oh I go to Parsons,” or something like that. It’s exactly like a brand for me outside.” Nodding in agreement, we all got a little off-topic to delve deeper into this common understanding of Parson’s students. “Actually, Parsons is the only college I applied to. It was risky as fuck. I went to high school in America and you know, how at the end of junior year and the beginning of senior year your college counsellors are like, “Oh you got to apply to at least three schools, three schools that are safe with like one top school that you really want to go to.” I was just like, “I’m just going to apply to one, because I don’t know why but I have full confidence that I’m going to get in.” So, I just applied for early … early action. I got in so I was just like, “I’m done.” So yeah. I
wanted to do Fashion Design since I was in middle school. I’m from Korea and like Parsons in New York, Central Saint Martins in England and Royal Academy in Belgium are the well-known fashion schools in Korea. I had their background information as I was growing up and Parsons was one of the top fashion schools so that’s why I applied here.” Shocked that Will had only applied to one university, my project partner asked him again to confirm. We were both curious to know what made him do so. “For my high school senior year, we have this tradition of creating some sort of project so I did like a fashion show. So basically, for my portfolio I just submitted images of all the processes I did like concept maps, fashion design sketches and the pictures I took for my fashion show. Yeah, that was really it for my portfolio. Even though I only applied to one school I took the SATs, but I was definitely less stressed compared to my friends who had to get high scores in their SATs or like they have to take five APs or whatever. Umm I think for me the whole college process was not stressful at all, like I had fun doing the fashion show. It was more of like my lifestyle compared to like, “Oh I have to prepare this whole thing for college.” It was just like a fun process for me. I feel like there’s a lot of resources that Parsons provide so it’s kind of overwhelming. I don’t even know what all there is you know? I wouldn’t go through the trouble of finding my own resources since Parsons has so many. To get access to these resources I just use the school website or if the professor suggests to like use this or that. That’s like the only way for me to find new resources here.”
“I probably use the wet lab the most. I mostly work there for my classes. Like right now I’ve to make like these buttons for my clothes and stuff as a part of fashion. I just want to do fashion-related work. I’m not really interested in any other field. For right now, I am not able to find any time for my designs outside of classes. But I’m doing fashion-related Studio and Seminar so it’s like part of what I want to do. {Why did you choose fashion as your topic for Studio & Seminar? I only ask that because I know our advisors generally encourage us to choose areas outside of our majors} Oh really? Well first of all, I don’t really talk to my advisor a lot so I just like do whatever I want. Since like Fashion Design is the thing I really want to do I just chose fashion because I was really sick of the Studio and Seminar from last semester. I think these professors like know what they’re doing compared to like last semester’s. Especially since these professors for fashion are like all designers or work for like a fashion marketing company. So, it’s more relatable and we could get more personal whenever we like discuss about something.” Pausing, he looked up and we thanked him for his absolute honesty. “At least for now the faculty-student relationship is just like a teacher and a student. It’s like separate. I think they’re just like good professors. I can’t really like say anything about the relationship yet. I think the relationship can be improved because I feel like a lot of my professors here are very emotional and like I just cannot deal with like emotional people. Because like I’m also an emotional person so whenever we get emotional it’s just like there is no resolution. It’s always like conflict, conflict, conflict. Like for my Drawing/Imaging class last semester my professor gave us an assignment to paint like a really big canvas, I forgot the size, in oil paint. He just gave us like a week to do it and that was like my final. There was just like no
way for me to finish that because I had like other finals. Like it’s just not me but we all had to do it. So, I like went up to him and I was like, “Hey, this is too much for us.” And I’m not a whiny person at all, I will just do it but I just felt like that was too much. He said no and he was getting emotional because he thought that I wasn’t caring for his class at all. Which was not true and it was just like we basically fought. Then I end up writing like a really long letter to him like, “Hey I’m sorry but this can’t work” so he ended up giving us like two extra days to work. That’s what happened.” We repeatedly told him how much we appreciated him for sharing this bit and opening up to us. However, he didn’t seem too concerned about keeping hushed about such sensitive topics. {Do you see the faculty sharing the same values as yours?} “I don’t know because I don’t really talk a lot to my professors. So, I can’t really say whether they do or not. I didn’t do any research into the faculty when I applied. I’m not a person who will like go onto Rate My Professor and all. I don’t do that. I think that’s like too much time for me. So, I just chose classes according to the times and themes. I think it would be good for me in particular to share the same values as my professors but it might be not good for some people who have different values. I think it is important for professors to adjust to their students’ values. If they want to make the class more meaningful to the students, I think they should value authenticity. Just comparing this to my high school experience, I feel like in art itself there’s no right or wrong answer. It was hard for me and I’m still struggling because I feel like grades matter to us no matter what. So, I was struggling with “What is the definition of art?” and “What is good or bad art?” Whenever the professors say that, “This is like really bad” I’m just thinking, “Well it might be good to like some people.” Because if I meet a professor who really likes delicate stuff
and if the student paints like really rough strokes, I still think that’s also good art from another perspective. That’s like the thing that I … Wait what was your question again? I’m sorry, that was confusing. So basically, I just think being creative is what I value the most in the curriculum because this is a design school. We are more like open to the resources we can use. We are able to like translate our ideas and thoughts into the work we make. It’s more meaningful than just like doing math or doing science or learning things that already have a definite answer to them. I like the freedom and flexibility that we have in our school. I definitely think the classes are challenging. Especially this year because were learning the foundation of all sorts of everything that I had never even thought of before. There are like some classes that I hate but I think if you think of it in the long-term way it’s good to have all these foundation courses because it helps you. It like kind of clarifies what you’re good at, what you enjoy the most or what you hate the most. And I think it’s like the right time to do it in freshman year so you’re able to know what your strengths are and what your weaknesses are. I don’t think they should like change anything in the curriculum. By then end of freshman year I look forward to just knowing what art is in general. Since I’m coming from high school where like art was just a part of my classes and whereas now I’m taking all art classes. So, I really want to know more about what art is. Next year I’ll be going to Korea to join the army and coming back after two years. Parsons has been supportive of it because apparently there are a lot of male Korean students at Parsons who have to do this. They understand and the maximum time they give you is like four semesters which is exactly two years so it’s like no big deal for them. {Do you think your perspectives towards Parsons will have changed by the time you’re back?} Yeah, I think so because I’m going to be growing
mentally and I have to like adjust to different cultures and everything. Yeah, I think it might change. I’m not sure.�
Adam: Adam is a PhD student at New York University. He was raised in a large Mormon family in the Midwestern state of Utah. When I asked him why he was interested in psychics, he said that it was sobering. He was hesitant to participate in this interview, calling himself an outlier. When I later discussed the interview with him, he confessed: “I told myself as I was walking into the interview that I needed to define my values. I don’t know what a value is. If I had to pick a true personal value, it would be sex.” Interview My project partner and I decided to interview Adam in the UC. Considering that he was an NYU student, I figured that he would be able to get into the building with his student ID without any issue. When I went to meet him downstairs, I saw the security guard in the main lobby hounding him. Adam was leaning back with his chin up in the air. He gets in this stance when he is nervous. He thinks it makes him look relaxed. I noticed how hard he was clutching his shock white, nameless gym bag. I’ll never know what he keeps inside it or where he got it. It’s completely untraceable. “You’re lucky I am letting you in this time. If you are an NYU student, and you want to get into these doors, you need to have ‘Spring 2018’ on your ID.” A bogus rule neither one of us knew about until that day. We walked to the fifth floor, this time with Adam leaning further back than before. I could tell he was nervous the more relaxed he was trying to be. He eased up when he saw the table he was to be seated at. Sana, my project partner, greeted him warmly. I gave him a mason jar to fill with water, I felt the small task would give him a moment to himself before the interview, and would help him get a level of comfort with his surroundings.
By the time we all sat down, the color returned back into his face, his previously hollowed cheeks were raised, and his nose was wiggling with his lips. We got into talking about the room we were in, then our school, and then, we decided to ask him about how he decided to pick his school. “Actually, coming from Utah, I was raised Mormon. I went to the University of Utah, which had a lot of Mormons. And, I think I specifically chose NYU because it was the most adverse compared to Utah. “ “It’s funny because my father was really upset about it. New York is scary and the devil state or something. Specifically, I chose NYU because it was the furthest away from the religion and culture and the background I came from, which was [in] Utah.” He pronounced Utah with a special drawl. He would reaffirm each statement he made by punching the end of each sentence with Utah. It was almost as though he had missed the taste of it. He reflected further on himself and the previous image of New York City he once held as a teenager, then compared it to his image of New York now. “I felt like I was a city boy, and Utah was a rural state. As far as partying and going dancing or clubbing, I was in tune with New York. Politically, it was actually a huge difference, which I didn’t know there was going to be. When you are in a red state, you think you are very liberal, and then you come to a liberal state and then you realize you are not as liberal as you thought you were. That was a surprise.” He rubbed the bottom of his jaw before he elaborated further. “I actually do feel pretty limited. There’s a select few that I feel comfortable with doing that with. But it is a very limited amount. I would say that I have controversial opinions and
views. So, I have to be very cautious of what I say and who I can say it to, to whom I can say. So yeah, I think I am limited.” “in Utah, you had friends and you had a lot of people to select from. So, you generally choose friends that you could say anything to. The contrast of having those friends that I could say anything to to coming here, does make it seem like my opinions are more controversial, but they may have not actually grown to be. It’s more of a contrast.” Adam was quick to let us know that this difference of opinion does not get to him too easily. He took another sip of water from his glass mason jar, looked at his reflection in the honeybee motifs, and twirled his fingers along his thick tendrils. “I wouldn’t say I am missing out, and I actually do like when people disagree. I do like arguing. I do miss it. I have one specific best friend. I miss him a lot. We talk every day and text every day. So, I vent to him with all of those controversial things.” He smiles and prepares for the next question. This time it is about his identity within his program. “Here at NYU, I think so. I am a grad student, so you get thrown into a group and there is only 8 [other] students or so that you can actually communicate with. Some of them are internationals that do not know English very well. Even though I was forced to make friends with 8 of them... Well, maybe I am actually unable to define who I want to be. Considering the fact that I have the limitation of only 8 friends in my cohort. I haven’t really thought about that. I actually think I haven’t been able to.” “I will say that because I am in the physics department, it’s not representative of NYU culture. Given the NYU Physics culture, I would define it as doing a lot of homework. Most physics grad students are just complaining because they have a lot of work to do. I think the
culture would just be having someone to complain to and having someone to understand that you are going through a lot of work.” “There is a lot of impostor syndrome, where you do not think you are good enough for physics, specifically graduate school. I would define it as being brothers in arms in a battlefield. The culture was definitely significant. I had a choice between University of Washington and NYU. And, there was an open house. I felt like people were nihilist at NYU. I felt like I could relate more, and there is a lot more banter at NYU. So, I did very much enjoy that and that’s what made me choose NYU ultimately.” “Physics especially has a superiority complex. They consider psychology and biology as a soft science. They only consider physics generally as the hard science. There is that superiority complex that is rampant. We only speak about it facetiously. Hopefully we don’t actually think we are superior. I definitely don’t feel that way. It’s all in good heart, I think.” He was then asked if he felt that this comradery helped him reshape his values during his transition to New York. With this, he put his leg to where his right ankle was resting on his left knee, and let his right-hand massage his right knee. He tucked himself into this position quickly. His response was almost instant. “I don’t think so. I don’t think it has. I feel like given that I have quite the overbearing personality at times, I think people do not actually put up with me unless they like that personality. I don’t want to use the word exacerbates, but it really cements that personality and those values. I am very good at convincing people to have my values. I would say, specifically, NYU hasn’t changed my values.” He did have a much different response in regard to the values of his professors. Once again, twirling the curls in his hair. Huffing at his feet like a fallen cherub.
“That’s hard to say. As far as research and the proliferation of education, I think that is a given. As far as personal values, it’s hard to say because although we are very casual and people can have conversation, my personal values do not ever come up. That might be because of the controversy of them. Or, maybe they are not controversial, but I do not want to be controversial to a professor. I guess, it is casual, but there is always a frame of professionalism that you have to maintain. I think it’s good. I think it’s a healthy thing to have that professionalism. Things don’t always get distracting when you are trying to be professional and do research.” “After every semester, you can review the professor. I always make sure to do so. A lot of my peers don’t. I think they do receive that feedback well. I guess, ensure that the professor is excited for teaching the subject at hand. That actually becomes a problem when you have to teach core classes. All of the professors have taught them over and over. If I were to change anything, it would be for more students to write out the reviews, because I feel like the professors do listen to them, and I have seen actual change from my viewing” Perhaps, what was most striking was what followed after. When Adam shared his vision of values in the classroom. “My personal values? It is hard to answer this question because personal values, especially in science, I do not want to say they don’t belong. They do obfuscate scientific understanding. I think, I think, I think there should be no consideration of personal values in a scientific class. I think.” “Specifically, for me, I don’t care much for personal values anywhere in academia. I think you can disagree on personal values, but you can still make progress in understanding some physical concept. But this is in physics and science, where there is hardly any ambiguity. The
entire time you are being trained to remove all opinion and all personal aspects of your life and look at something with no emotion.” “There is a lot of logical rigor. This is probably exclusive to physics. It also depends on how it impacts someone to have different personal values than the person they are working with. I would recommend students in science to not prioritize personal values at all. It shouldn’t be a big deal in academia it all. But, if it is a big deal, which we should still be considerate of those people as well, I think it should be in a mentor relationship with a professor. Not in a class. I think given the amount of people in a class, it is impossible to tailor a class for everyone’s personal values.”