[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
SYMPOSIUM 2012 REMINDER: THIS TRANSCRIPT IS NOT VERBATIM Date: 19/01/12 Venue: West Park Conference Centre, Perth Road, Dundee Operator: Louisa McDaid
Mat Fraser: So ladies and gentlemen, and those in between, take 10 seconds or 20 seconds to check your mobiles are switched to silent and you are ready for the day. Take 30 seconds. I am Matt Fraser, I am the chair for the symposium “Pathways to the Profession�. I got to the stage where I use reading glasses and nothing is in font 14 so I will use these off and on.
First a bit of housekeeping, welcome and thank you for coming to the Pathways to the Profession symposium organised by SDT in partnership with Creative Scotland, Dundee Rep and the Scottish Conservatoire. If there is a fire alarm the fire exits are to the left and right. They are sequences of 3 sets of double doors on either side which will hopefully open when you approach. The collection point for being counted is on the right, stage left out of there. There are emergency numbers if you need them on the plastic laminated things, and I was asked to tell you that the whole conference is being filmed for a sequence of short films. We won't sign release forms but if you don't want to be filmed go to the film team and they will take a photo and edit you out of the footage. Honest! [LAUGHTER] Page | 1
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
if there is a problem do that. The team are in purple t-shirts and will answer your questions. If you need interpreters ask Caroline Bowditch or Abby. Turn your phones off. I am sure you have done that. There is WiFi available and I assume its password free. The information for everything you need is in the pack. The stalls, are in the foyer. No, they are in the foyer,and I have browsed them, Access to Work and so on, are just this morning. Do avail yourselves of that at the beginning of lunch and the morning break. The resource table is there for the whole event. Feel free to leave provocations on the wall and feedback. I am not sure where it is - in the Mansion House.
It's a delight for me to be here. I will say a few words to vibe up the space. I will toe the party line but I have opinions and they will come out! Let me start by saying theatre and dance are forms of presented art and more useful when they widen the scope of the imagination of the viewer and not narrow it. It must be expanded and challenged. Imagine my horror when I went to Richmond theatre where I used to live and imports the magic of dance. There was as how called Marie Jose of the Chinese Elvis. It was not very good and was a perfect living room play. About three quarters of the way through there was a party and the eldest impersonator was late. It was packed. Maureen Litman turned in a hackneyed portrayal of someone with mental illness. The Chinese Elvis comes in and the woman in front leans to her friend and says He is Chinese! Why was I here? We are not making shows like that.
I looked at the amazing breadth and wealth of experience of the panel of performers, the qualifications and strategies in bringing disabled artists to mainstream art. The changes, the enthusiasm, and I think to my first disability arts conference in 1996 where the Independent Theatre Council asked me to do a speech which was pretty angry. It bemoaned the power breakers singing resistance. In T.V, its namely the chain of fear from casting agent all the way Page | 2
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
down. Every one of those presents a question barrier about the inclusion of a disabled person. In stage, sorry, on stage its a refusal to the bigger budgeted mainstream houses to include disabled people in their work, having new work that concerns disability or casting disabled actors. I think probably for me that is still the big barrier to that which we aspire to achieve. At the time drama schools were one of the barriers and said that there were no good disabled people out there. We are used to that. over the years things changed and a major part of change is the training and education and grass roots type of areas. I was asked to do similar things at similar events over the next 10 years. Those events that seemed like a box ticking event saying we do disability, not all year, but we have a 2 day conference on it. It looks like we have a commitment to diversity and disability when really they have none. It lets the venues off the hook and makes it look as if they are committed. I used the same speech over the next ten years. If things change I would write a new speech. That is cheeky because I was getting paid every time. But it's politically viable. I will be proactive and say finally I have arrived at a conference where I won't use that speech! I think things may be changing. I look back to the Disability Discrimination Act, when it had the final implementation and the discrimination against us wasn't allowed in drama schools, I got a panicky call to talk to a faculty of new students and they were aware they had to let disabled students in. I can't remember the names of the year. The dance teacher at the school was freaking out - I have people in wheelchairs and someone with one leg - how do I teach them jazz? I said with a bit of flexibility you can increase the interpretative element and decrease the jazz. It was that sort of blocked reactionary behaviour, it wasn't their fault because they are products of the environment they work in.
The schools are now accessible and the companies who were not culled 2 years ago by the Arts Council, they are expanding horizons. We have writers and directors and actors fully trained the new breed with the full tool kit and mainstream expectation, the expectation of mainstream access. My generation were kicking against the expectation we would not get it. It's not as powerful as Page | 3
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
standing on the centre stage. Audiences are learning not to be scared - but just entertained. Things are improving. Peter Dinklage just won an Emmy for best supporting actor. As the band was playing “get off the stage now Peter,” he said “everyone google Martin Henderson”. Millions then googled and it was a guy who was injured in a dwarf tossing incident in the north of England. The more high profile disabled people we have who kill the notions of how we can be used. Other things along the way. You have another 10 minutes of me! [LAUGHTER]
I am an actor and versed in drama. My current fiancée is a choreographer and dancer and stripper. She was introduced to the world of disability, pushed into the sea of it. She has no choice because she is with me. I had to deal with her being naked in front of thousands of that. I am used to that! It's interesting how she approached this because she has not done disability in any way and she represents a lot of people. She will watch anything and call it crap if she thinks its crap. We went to see Gimp with a lot of disabled people in underwear doing contemporary dance, using their everyday movements integrated into dance. Its a wild success in the world of dance in America and a wholesale importation of disability box ticking. Judy went to see that and wondered how a woman with no legs dangling from a ribbon can be boring! Then we watched something at St Marks Church in New York . It was a sequence of solos and a company piece at the end, using the movements when the body involuntarily moves through a muscular spasm. That was taken to the extreme rehearsed place. When all five were jerking across the stage it looks like people with CP at a party. That is what it looked like. I wondered why it was okay for non disabled people to do that as a language of dance but not in integrated dance. How did that come to be, that those who have those movements can't express it as dance? That is something that needs looking at.
Page | 4
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
I don't remember the name of the conference. Me and Catherine Longs did a conversation. I wish they'd use more visibly disabled people because it was disability-lite for me. I am thrilled that Claire Cunningham will be doing a piece. I am a fan of her work and that can only be a good thing. We are here to move things forward. Don't make us use the same script - please can we move forward. The people in this room constitute a powerful possibility and if we talk to each other and network and make it happen. I am reading the stuff and huge amount of stuff is going on in education and it must come from the ground up. We will feel the benefit in 20 years but the barriers are still there with the main houses. I think of the national theatre of Wales where I am involved in a project and its the first time this has been on a National Theatre platform and the NTS are doing great work. Then there is the National in England ... Using the same 100 actors they have used for the last 10 years. This actually happened.
[ Louisa stops at 10.20 ] A friend of mine who... fully trained, fully expectational, fully skilled, let's go. Was told by the casting director that she would never work there because of her arm. It is a publicly funded organisation, in, what she said was illegal. We can't let that go on anymore; I would suggest in the strongest possible terms, I am not going to be the one that takes that to court because I want to work at the national one day. That is the thing isn't it. Because you know, why should the pressure be on the individuals? Well, I have said my bit, always a little bit, have I done everything? Chinese Elvis, yes, oh, yes, no that is it, I have done my bit. Sorry. Excuse me, I will get an my next bit of paper, I am just like you lot I have been to so many conferences and, seems to me in retrospect some of them weren't that useful and they were just lip service and we just have to make it useful and move it on and we are in Scotland where that sort of thing is increasingly becoming popular and well I live in England, I feel we are dragging our heels a bit there, those of us that have heels. [laughter]. Page | 5
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
[applause]
I get the job of introducing everybody, everybody has got these ridiculously fantastic CD that go on for hours, I will do a main thing and a random thing for each person. I will now introduce our first keynote speak herb, who is the Chief Executive of creation Scotland, administrator and youth projects director, the... theatre company, a company that my mother, I beg your pardon Caroline, I am so sorry, after 15 years of introducing people, I get better and better. I forgot we have to set the scene first ladies and gentlemen, nobody can do that better than Caroline Bowditch. Are you using this microphone? CAROLINE: I think so. That wasn't an artistic intervention it was just an intervention. Hello, welcome to Dundee, thank you for coming and thank you Matt for that fantastic introduction. I have some practical things to do before Janet and I set the scene and just remind us exactly why we are here. Why are we here? But we will tell you in a bit. I need to just remind you or let you know that the symposium is going to happen across 2 buildings so this is the Sidlaw Suite and there is also a mansion house, isn't that nice which is just a little stroll out the main doors and up the hill slightly to where the break out rooms and the food will miraculously appear throughout the day. So it is kind of important that you know. If you need any directing at any stage please look for someone in purple, they are floating around so they can assist you in any way. We have done an undemocratic thing today in the breakout sessions we have given you all a dot. So on your lanyards U you will have a dot, if it looks purple it is actually blue just so you know, yes. Blue dots look purple but they are actually blue so, they are going be 4 breakout sessions we have just split you by colour in order to have balanced numbers in, in the rooms and also to mix up the conversation. So we wanted to make sure that we had a spread of people from different performing arts general res within the groups. Also throughout the breakout sessions there will be two pollinators. One is Adam Benjamin who is Page | 6
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
around at the back and Joveran down the front, both of those you may know. Their Johns will be to move from each of the break out groups, between them taking an idea from one, and dropping it in another as the name would suggest. Tomorrow morning I know it sounds weird to move on already, but tomorrow morning we will start slightly earlier, we want to start at 9:30 we know that it is Friday, we are fast approaching the weekend and we wanted to make sure we finished in time for people to get away for the weekends if they wanted to. Despite the Dundee sun which you might all want to stay and bask in. Another person, Ed Littlewood, he is at the back of the room, purple shirt; he has an important role throughout amongst other things as an introducer. Think about him as your match maker, should you look at the delegate list and think I want to meet that person but I don't know who they are. Go to Ed and he will find them and introduce you. What you do after that is completely up to you. Also just a reminder that this evening we will be moving after the meal to the Dundee rep theatre where we will see an amazing performance so we are hoping that everyone is going to be at that as well. So now, it is up to Janet Smith and I to let you know a bit about why we are here. We wanted to set the scene for you. JANET SMITH: Hello. We will just organise ourselves, I am Janet Smith, the artistic director and you can't hear me, hello. Can you hear me? All right, we will check this. Thought we would try to do an informal two hander here, we wanted to kick off by telling you about where we are and Caroline is at the end of a 4 year period of being the dance agent for change for Scottish dance theatre and led us to this really because we have come to a point of lots of questions and realising we need to toss our experiments and findings and questions out into a wider field and I am here to learn a lot from you about what I need to do next. CAROLINE: So we just thought that we would go through really quickly we would tell you about the beginning of the journey, why we ended, or how we ended up in the collaboration, what discoveries and challenges have been along the way. To let you know what our ambitions are for the next two days. Page | 7
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
JANET SMITH: For me actually things started at a conference just earlier we have been hearing about the 2004 Disability Discrimination Act the statement that if you provide a service to the public it has to be accessible and I went to two conferences, one here in Scotland that was then by the Arts Council and one down in England with a huge question in my mind about yes, I understand of how to open the doors of theatre and feel our way to be around or be with the art. How do we make artists have accessibility on stage? I am stuck in in something which is physical. I had an image about a ballet, in a certain ... somebody with their arm chopped off. This was my challenge. My tipping point moment was I call I call it in Jenny moment, was at a conference, it was this. Jenny took two actors that were disabled actors, professionals and two students out of RADA; she presented a scene from the private lives of Noel Coward. I had my break through, in the script, there was this tall student looking at a small disabled actress, disabled because she was small I guess. And he was saying, I love you, I love you, I love your long, long arms and long, long legs. That kind of a penny dropped for me. I thought I could never experience the blindness of love better than in this moment and then, physically disabled actor who was playing very upright and proper British man had a frozen shoulder and an arm in constantly in his pocket, this was a physicality, would never see in this character, that was it, if we could cast from the whole world we could represent to each other and understand the whole of society. Wouldn't I feel better and wouldn't that be a better place. That led to a research period, we thought, let's figure it out in dance, what could we do? if we brought together our able bodied, our push me more dancers, together with disabled dance artists, how can that work? We advertised and nobody came through to want to work with us. Pennies were dropping for me all the time. There is nobody that either has the training or the skills or feels that they are qualified enough to come forward to do the project. We had to go searching to find people to work with us and what we did in that time was we actually found Caroline, we found 2 Australians, one American, brought them over from these countries and one well Caroline was already here and one English disabled artist and we improvised my break through moments were these. Seeing two of our dancers, working with Adam Benjamin, leading us with a leveller, which is improvisation, all of us with our basic tools and we all have bring to the table ourselves. Adam led us musically through this. Two dancers stood at the side of the stage. Caroline didn't know, sached, she went up stage and put her back towards the audience and the proposition was so exciting for me and our artists watching. I thought this could work. Later on one of our dancers charged over to Page | 8
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
another person with Cerebral Palsy. Our dancer fell to the floor. Caroline dropped out of her chair. I thought, this, this is what we want. This is interesting, this is different, this is exciting, our artists are getting just as much buzz it was going both ways. So then we thought we need to do a piece of work, we need to do creative piece of work and then I invited Caroline to join us for what would be a 6 month period on the road with the dance company, creating work by Adam and Caroline. CAROLINE: I think at that point having an invitation. There is something and disabled artists I am sure in the room might have felt this. This idea about actually a lot of the time we live in the margins, to be invited into the main stream, when Janet posed that question to me, all of a sudden I thought, oh, am I really ready for that? Like I talk the talk, talk the talk, yes, that is exactly what I want to do. Someone was making that offer and I had to think, am I really ready for that? Could my body do that? I didn't know, I was used to doing sporadic workshops, to be dancing every day for 6 months with a group of people who are elite athletes, [laughing], I am not sure I am ready for that, we had 18 months, while we secured the funding to prepare myself mostly mentally for that process and it was a life changing experience. JANET SMITH: So, what I learned my next eureka moment was Adam worked us into working together to understand how the chairs work, not to injury each other when we first came together, a group of 11 people. My moment was a couple of days later in creative process, I thought, actually we don't need an expert, Adam has led us to see, we can do this. It just seems huge and terrifying from the beginning and I had almost seen there was a bridge I needed to cross, with reading and workshops and learning. But in the doing was the learning. The difficult thing the huge challenge was how to train together. Not only did our two teachers, Michael who is here and [name inaudible] they needed to teach a class everyday for dancers with hugely different physicality and with hugely different experiences because the disabled dancers had not had a formal dance training and there are so many things you learn in that training that they struggled with. Yet on the other hand the experience we were having was to enrich our company by having a huge experience range, a huge age range, a huge sense of community so the added value was fantastic, our teachers faced the difficulties. Caroline is going give us a couple of examples of how to overcome them. Michael's approach was fantastic, let's put the boot on the other shoe, always adapting. If I Page | 9
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
create a sequence in class based on the wheelchair, Caroline will be moving with her left hand. How do the dancers respond to that sequence of movement? How do we you know, how do we make our interesting developmental a training if you like, we are in training together but by putting the boot on the oh other shoe and other techniques Michael developed to help us. This is where we need to go to bring the art together. CAROLINE: One of the joys coming to Scottish dancing, I started to do ballet and I was 34 at the time, introduced to a language that I didn't have any meaning to me. Plie, I didn't know what it was. Michael made me a glossary and gave me a list of what all the terms meant and also recorded class so he would video himself doing the exercises and I would get the video or all of the disabled dancers would get the DVD so we could have a head start on that which was huge. We also discovered other ways of working in that if I am in my chair, I am quite, I have got lots of stuff around that stops my body having to work particularly hard so we found a piece of staging, hence the box, that I did class on which meant that my body was working harder, my feet had contact with the floor, weight on the floor, down on and off the box. It made me in training. We then obviously went on to make other pieces that involved the box so the long and the short of it is on the box, NQR I came out of the box. The box is quite significant in my career. We also Michael who some of you may know, very tall Yorkshire man discovered that to do ballet behind the bar, so that he could see Michael but could be supported gave him all sorts of support. So it was this, the troubleshooting that we all did together, the solutions that we found together in negotiation and I think that is one of the really important things is that we were both learning and the point from the previous slide we were all moving forward but we didn't have a map of where we were going, just had an ambition of where we wanted to get to. So we just found solutions and troubleshooted along the way. [Louisa]
Janet Smith: I will run through this. And just to say, the outcome was were able to get the dance agent of change post. Caroline came back and told us to evaluate. The sense we have from the artists and the audience is that we are Page | 10
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
ready for this. I want to focus on the artist response, what does the art form want. From my point of view the industry needs a broader range of artists and experience. Why are there still so few professionally trained disabled dancers and what do we stand to lose by shifting the hierarchy of professional arts training. It's particular to dance but is there for us all. I want to focus on the feedback from the artists and run through what they told us. This is from an Impact Report that Jo Verrant did for us. It comes from the artists noticing that what we do is a bit exclusive. So dance art is a mirror to society and if the reflection is always fit, young and able not only is the reflection bring but also inaccurate. This from James, asking to work together. [see screen]
Caroline Bowditch: To push boundaries and discover the movement possibilities of working teacher, if disabled actors were able to spend more time in training we could move forward.
Janet Smith: If this happened earlier in the training, we would be in a different place to begin the work and I could not give the time needed with this company, to what needs to happen. This also, from a performer. What I take from this, [ reads the quote ] I have the sense we are moving forward away from the old model of perfect body and the idea of the artist as creator and performer is a more interesting way than the body beautiful. I took this from that.
Janet Smith: Solen, one of our dancers says the following - [see screen] That would be in training, an exciting training. We have shifted through these as we must keep to the day. But they speak for what we want to happen. By taking class teacher, and watching her perform ... [ reads from slide ] This is something we are speaking to tomorrow, what is it about the choreography that matters? How can we adapt movement to tell the same story with different dancers. If that Page | 11
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
is a college module we would all have this skill. For me the important learning to share is the idea that with tools, we have problems but we are problem solvers, with these tools we can start on a path we don't know and move firewalls. I have great sympathy for the jazz teacher, I had this myself when my college decided to be disability friendly and one summer the porters asked to carry a person up to the gym. I wondered how to include the person. Its terrifying. But its not a difficult thing - we must take steps teacher. The desire for the symposium is that simple things happen. I have come to learn what I must do next in our models. We must be solution focussed. I have been to heads teacher momentous where we moan.
Caroline Bowditch: We want to show examples of best practice and share them with you. Also the stumbling blocks and how they can be addressed.
Janet Smith: For me conferences can be bring but I learned so much and had one break through moment. You may come with a question but take one thing away.
Caroline Bowditch: At least one! We will provide you with examples to empower you. This is not about telling you what you are doing wrong but looking at how you can do it better. To show you role models.
Janet Smith: We must train more role models.
Caroline Bowditch: A major part of the next 2 days is to create a joined up thinking network that shares ideas and communicate with each other. Page | 12
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
Janet Smith: We are separate dots and the pathways can join the dots from the bottom up. Thank you very much.
Caroline Bowditch: Have a great two days. [applause]
Mat Fraser: Brilliant. Thank you so much. Can someone help with the mic stand? And what we heard there, I think, connecting the dots make the network that should become a map that we will make when we are here to help people navigate to where they must go. That is the great framework and umbrella thought to take us through the symposium. I will introduce the chief executive of the Creative Scotland. He started at Major Road, where my mother was an actress. He has done incredible things and would have preferred a CV of the other things they has done that may be more relevant. So goodness knows what he has done over the years! He is a collaborator in the movement for change - Andrew Dixon!
Andrew Dixon: Thank you very much. While the images are on screen, images of Creative Scotland,I want to reflect on what I heard earlier. Someone asked me the benefits of Scotland getting independence will be. You must have Visas and passports to get to England so we won't lose Janet Smith to Manchester under Scottish independence. I have had her on my bedroom wall for 25 years! I went to see her in Dancers and it was one of the most inspirational dances I've seen in one of my earliest jobs. I have known her work for some 25-6 years. And Caroline I knew from Newcastle when she did great work at Dance City. What is happening here is very special and we observed it in Newcastle Gateshead. There are many special things about Dundee but what is happening here is genuinely Page | 13
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
ground breaking work and its a delight to have that introduction here. I have the privilege of taking an overview of culture in Scotland and visiting many of the projects across Scotland. Scotland doesn't celebrate its success well enough and today I will tell you about Creative Scotland and where equalities fits in there and we shine a light on projects like this. We take the fantastic work of Solar Bear and Birds of Paradise and not just mainstream but make sure everyone knows its happening. The combined efforts of people here are delivering something that is very significant in terms of Scottish cultural strengths and the opportunities already created by the good work of the Scottish Arts Council and are continued through Creative Scotland are setting the ground rules for the norm in the future.
I use these images for many talks and finish with this one. It's here because its one of the best shows I have seen in 18 months - Around the World in 80 days by Lung Has. It was selected by the Edinburgh fringe. These are the top dance projects we are showing to international audiences and its great we are profiling work like this. The broad context of where the work fits into Creative Scotland. I will speak about our progress and plans for Scotland, how we will put equality central to the work, and share the excitement of the year of Creative Scotland and how it creates a platform to profile the work. I had a 3 year task plan for the arts in Scotland. That is not a long time and to get people behind you you need a 10 year vision and a sense that people can be on a journey to deliver something special. The plan has a commitment to deliver for the people of Scotland. Artists and cultural organisations are important in the journey but our focus is on the people of Scotland who live all over Scotland and need an opportunity to participate in the arts. I want to share a few of our aspirations, we want Scotland to be a year round festival nation, one of the top 10 places in the world for culture, with the highest levels of creativity in the U.K. We have high levels of participation in the arts in Scotland but not for all parts of the geography and all sections of the community. We will target our efforts to reach those populations that don't currently participate. Dealing in generations and thinking about changing cultural activity over generations is a rewarding way. We have 5 Page | 14
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
objectives - the first being to invest in talent. This is an underground map with a series of tracks and stations. The picture is the programme of a theatre show by Plan B dance company showing the career paths of a director, a writer, a performer and a musician and designer. Our job at Creative Scotland is to get young people onto the track and provide the platforms where talent can be added and build new stations where there are gaps, and remove barriers. This is a map for 5 performers but could be a map for the whole of theatre and disability performers. We are keen that every one of the platforms take equality seriously and the organisations help us move the agenda on.
The second objective - this image was in every presentation I have done for the last 12 months. We must value production wherever it comes from and ...
... We invest in audiences, we have got to make sure we invest in a new generation of audiences and it is very interesting to hear Janet and Caroline talking about the work from the perspective of the performers but that work is exciting from the perspective of audiences. I brought my teenage son and his mate to see Scottish dance theatre with Caroline performing in the fringe the year before last. Entranced by that work and he is not a cancer. We also invest in places and the contribution at different places make in Scotland. The unique contribution that different places can make and how places and the combinations of places and people can actually change nations and beyond the world. Dundee is making its contribution to a creative Scotland in part through the work that is happened with Scottish dance theatre. So, creative Scotland for those of you that are from England and haven't heard about what we do, we are an Arts Council merged with a film agency and we look after creative industries. But we are much more than a funding body we are an investment agency and we are a champion and an advocate for the cultural Page | 15
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
sector, been doing lots of things in our first two years to celebrate and to promote the cultural strengths of Scotland. Later this week we will be launching our festivals guide to 350 cultural festivals in Scotland. We have been developing partnerships with our broadcasters one of which will be STV, Scottish television who want to follow our Scotland dancing programme. We have been launching the London 2012 festival programme, our made in Scotland programme which I will touch on further. This week we start the Celtic connections festival where we show case our best musicians in Scotland. We have just finished celebrating one of our artists Carla black in Venice, with Scotland in Venice. This year we are also doing something new. We are show casing everything that is happening in London from Clare cunning hamper forming at the UK dance audition to our orchestras performing at the hall. We want to find a way of packaging things and celebrating the cultural strengths of Scotland. And there is more. What about equalities? I think we are keen to stress that our approach is to main stream equalities within our organisation and what we do. I think that has been demonstrated by the way that companies like lungha private dancer, snails and ketch up, Ramesh’s work and Scottish dance theatre has sat alongside Dundee rep, the traverse and other companies in our made in Scotland programme. I hope that that will continue to be the case. This year we have been very fortunate to plug into the Cultural Olympiad and Scotland ironically the farthest away from London probably has the most impressive programme in the London 2012 festival and Cultural Olympiad. And great success because the qualities here in accessing commissions through the Cultural Olympiad, the unlimited commissions programme will see work I think all of these are in the programme, from Clare cunning ham, Janice parker, Caroline, Ramesh’s work, he was telling me yesterday, in Glasgow his show is being expanded. Will be premiered in the MacRobert in the summer and then London and other venues. Mark and Evelyn, inspiration
Page | 16
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
Not just from dance, people here from Drake music, a fantastic project working with Drake music, I went to see early work on this project and it is using inspiring technology to enable composition from some of the Drake music participants. So, a huge amount happening in the Cultural Olympiad but on-going work creative Scotland supports a number of organisations, people like birds of parodies, like solar bear and the access work for deaf participants. Given a grant to the federation of Scottish theatres for captioning equipment, hopefully role out captioning across all the theatres in Scotland. Drake music Scotland and their inclusive music technology work and the fantastic ensembles they put together and limelight given support for their inclusive youth choir. Do a lot of work in recording and music in Glasgow. Some of this work is of great quality thanks very much to Ramesh and his photographers for this photo. This is work which demands the highest technical speck, demands fantastic venues and could stand up on any stage around the world. But what about the money? People often saw it is all about the money and there is mat said earlier, the money was cut in England for various companies. We do have an access and equalities budget. Maggie Maxwell who is here, looks after that for us, £750,000 over 3 years, that is not an insignificant sum to be putting aside specifically to develop strategic work in this area but it is not just about that. Got be about our quality arts production, about our festivals events and touring. Got be about investing in disabled artists doing international work. Got be looking at the capital programmes and how new facilities that develop in Scotland take equalities and access as central. It has got to be about all the other organisations that we support, our foundation organisations, our project companies and everyone else. But for me, I use this slide a lot. The glass is more than half full in Scotland and I think this agenda is very much on people’s minds.
Page | 17
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
We have a few other opportunities. We creative Scotland working a lot in partnership with other organisations and we are working with the ham Lyn partnership. There is a great opportunity here to tackle some of the issues that Janet and mat referred to so that our educators, our schools, our colleges, and our artists are better equipped to work in the equality sector. The baring foundation partnered with us, on a 2 year programme, a festival of arts and creative aging, great opportunities to develop work in this area. Over half of Scotland's population is over the age of 50 and it is really important if we are driven by a delivery for the people of Scotland, that we consider that very significant sector of our community. Our creative futures residencies, we have some 350 artist’s residencies across Scotland that we are packaging together in one way or another. There is a real opportunity here to bring in artists like Ramesh Caroline and others to place themselves into some of the residency hosts and deliver a programme of change. We are reviewing that railway map, we are reviewing the sector and trying to understand what is happening in the cultural life and ecology of Scotland. We need to find the gaps. We need to find the strengths and build on them and then what we are going to do is commission some new strategic interventions and certainly, there will be strategic commissions that will be about taking professional quality work forward in the equalities sector. I just wanted to simplify the process of this review and I found these 3 images which sum it up. I wished I used these before. First of all we will map what is happening in Scotland in theatre. We want to know where theatre is happening; we want to know what type of theatres is happening. We want to know who is doing it, where the artists are. We then want to look at that and analyse it and find where the strengths are, where the gaps are and then we want to take action and to, we can't do everything. But we can back some strengths and we can address some of the gaps.
Page | 18
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
We have got this fantastic opportunity this year, I came home from work last Wednesday night, I don't see a lot of television but I switched on the news. News at ten, BBC. On came an advert for the year of creative Scotland. Now this was BBC news. I then switched over to news night, BBC 2 and on came an advert for the year of creative Scotland with reference to Scotland's year of cultural and creativity and we were caught up in the whole issue of the Scotland referendum on independence and the BBC had picked up that we have just launched an advert to attract tourists to Scotland but it is fantastic to see the profile that we are already getting and if you look at my computer, the press cuttings this morning, there is probably about 15 press articles that are mentioning the year of creative Scotland. It is our opportunity and we want everybody in this room from Scotland to use it to make sure that they tell the world about the great work that is happening and this is part of a broader picture of the London 2012, the Cultural Olympiad and our move towards the commonwealth games in 2014 when we will have another platform to celebrate Scotland's cultural strengths and to welcome the world here to see some of the work that is happening. I mentioned the festivals guide. Part of creative Scotland's role is to tell the stories that perhaps haven't been told and just as a festival's guide for Scotland's 350 festivals it would be great at this conference if we are telling the story about our cultural strengths here in Scotland and here in dance and theatre production. Our web site is an incredibly powerful tool for doing this. Please tell us your success stories. Our web site is just astounded us has gone up to a hundred thousand unique visitors a month. There is 850 people read my Blogg every week. Lord knows, they must have better things to do; but do go on to our web site, it is about show casing the work that you are doing and all those little figures there, are people that we recorded at one of our conferences of people saying what their most exciting project is in the year of creative Scotland. Lots of people are going be promoting Scotland this year and there is going to be some sensational events. I used to have a rule, I worked for a long time as mat says in the cultural sector and I got the stage where I would go to only one conference a year. I got bored; they always said the same thing and never moved things forward. I set myself a rule; I would choose and go to one conference a year because now I speak at one conference a week. But if I had to choose one Page | 19
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
conference so far this year that I have seen, this would have been the one to come to. I think it is an exciting programme. I think that the accumulation of what is happening within this room and the people that are here, are creating that sort of generational change that I talked about earlier. So if I go to nothing else during the year, I hope today and tomorrow is a really good event and I wish you well in your efforts to connect with the entire world of cultural production in Scotland, thank you. [applause] MAT FRASER: Thank you Andrew very much, it is now my pleasure to introduce Jenny, who is the artistic director of Graeae Theatre Company, done an incredible amount of work to bring up the profile of the company and disabled actors and the whole notion of inclusivity, to far higher levels as the previous administration has ever imagined. Forging, never satisfied where she is, forging forward all the time and presumably we are going to learn about her current forgings, so, I could go longer with the CV, I think Jenny would like to talk, ladies and gentlemen, welcome Jenny Sealey. JENNY SEALEY: Thank you, lovely palantypists, if I go to fast, when I nervous, I go the speed of light, do say slow down. Same to you all the housekeeping is done. I will apologise now, I will repeat some of the things that mat has said, some of the things that Caroline has said, but bear with me. I am very excited to be here today. Let us make this day, this conference a conference to end all conferences. [applause]. It is a most fantastic kick start to the Olympic and Paralympic year which promises the ceremonies, with the Cultural Olympiad to profile deaf and disabled people in fields and platforms as many of us that we have never seen before, this is the year it is all going to happen. We are not going away. We have to think about 2013 but more of that later. All I am going to go on about, I will try and not waffle. All I will speak about is some of my thoughts, my observations, questions for which I do not have answers Page | 20
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
for, but it is all based on me and being in and around this sector for the last 25 years. Can you hear my by the way? Lovely thank you. So, let's start with the universal declaration of human rights thank you. Article 23 [music playing], everyone has the right to work, to free choice of employment, to work in favourable and just conditions and protection against unemployment. Article 26 U. Everyone has the right to education. Education shall be free, at least in the elementarily and fundamental stages. Elementary education shall be compulsory, technical and professional education shall be made generally available and higher education shall be equally accessible to all on the basis of merit. So, with that in mind, we all have the right to pursue the arts if that is where our passion, our motivation and our talent lie. Yes. So, artists, by very nature of the profession there are so many barriers but as disabled artists we have the right to embark on a journey free of prejudice and attitudinal barriers, we have the right to have choices and to be free to challenge others who may have thought about what we should be doing. My careers adviser suggested that I should be a librarian because libraries are quiet. I am still trying to figure out that, deaf people are so bloody noisy, we can't hear ourselves, we are noisy, anyway. [laughter]. I am on, I have been on and I am still on a massive journey and I suppose my journey for me started when I was 7 and my best friend in the whole world ray Monday Macintosh, small glasses, we were messing around, he pushed me over, banged my head on a table and I am deaf. But you are 7, you don't question it really, you just get on with it, I started doing ballet classes, my mum immediately thought, she is going to give up ballet. The Page | 21
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
dance teacher said no; follow the person in front, always making sure that someone is in front of you. I followed the person in front. Then I trot across to the polytechnic to audition for the dance course, I had to have 5 other interviews because they were very concerned about my problem at being deaf was going to cause them a lot of problems. My problem, I am deaf. I need communication. But at no point did they ever offer any solutions of what they would support me and provide me. I wanted to do that course; I had to blag my way through. I will sort out my access and myself. I did. You know, for dance class I followed the person in front, for lectures, I well I stopped going. [laughter]. I spent a lot of time in the library making a lot of noise obviously. [laughter]. So, I did love it, but, oh, it was, anyway, I won't go into that. I left college and like all of us when you leave, you feel completely, oh my god, what? There was certainly no one for me to follow then, no one there. If only I had known that Sarah Scott, the dancer, I didn't know who she was. There were no other deaf people. Oh my god, I never really met any deaf people. All my education main stream, my university was main stream. I need to be deaf. Massive thing for me. But as luck would have it, one of these youth opportunity schemes for people way, way, back. Arts activities for deaf and hearing people. Dance, yes. So, for ÂŁ20 a week, I would go and do this youth opportunity scheme thing and it was great fun and together we decided to set up our own dance company. This is where it all went a bit tits up [laughter]. There was myself as a deaf trained dancer, some other dancers, deaf dancers but not trained were in the training sort of. A group of hearing dancers and the main was hearing, the real stuff. I could do that but when she put her choreography on to them, they looked naff. They looked stupid. I thought this is disempowering, we don't want to look stupid, we want movement. We want to look good at what we do. Page | 22
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
Started to be the object for me, I started to think, the way I assessed my own dancing skills, realised I was not as good as some of the nondisabled hearing dancers. Being deaf was not that interesting as you know, I didn't have my unique selling point, just jut my head a bit to try and hear the music but, I do not have that fantastic difference of gravitational difference like Caroline, like David Toole, I have , I have visibly large breasts [laughter]. Five minutes, got that in? [turning to interpreter] With boobs in mind and the fact that, not a brilliant dancer, I quit. I had lots of acting stuff at college. It was so much easier because of the Karling Miss Parker sitting, darling Miss Parker, paving the way for deaf actors, this small theatre companies had a commitment for equal opportunities for inclusion, for participation. I felt like I had come home. I felt safe with the theatre, the halfmoons... what was it? Norwich TIE... in the back of a van, two deaf people together. Heaven. I still went to auditions, every time I went for an audition, they would go, um, your voice is not very good. We would be very worried about you getting your cues. And, might upset the audience is little bit. More of that later, I gone way off, but never mind. Lots and lots of theatre companies say, oh well, children of a lesser God has already been done hasn't it? [laughter]. Anyway, going back, the dance world and the theatre world were and to a greater extent still are dated communities for which we don't have the key, we had to have our own platforms, Graeae, Blue Eye Soul, Bird of Paradise,... sorry,. I will do that again, Graeae, Candoco, Stop Gap, Blue Eye Song, Birds of Paradise, mind the gap, extant and Deafinitely Theatre. They are just a few. We all shared an absolute drive for the pursuit of equality, participation and excellence thank you very much. We knew we would have to be better than our nondisabled counterparts, our work was viewed as therapy, Page | 23
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
worthy, excellence is a white middle classed male nondisabled construct and some of those very same people govern the arts and have governed the arts and still do. There is little room for difference or indeed acknowledgment of difference and therefore the flourishing of disability arts organisations of world will remain underground for a long time until we were working out our own role models for ourselves, criticising, supports, until we felt butch enough to get ourselves out there in the main stream world. You know, that that fight for acceptance in the wider world gives us artists give us such ambition and determination to succeed. So, the disability arts community grew and grew and grew. Our definition of excellence we were really, it is absolutely rooted in our uniqueness, our physical and sensory selves and how we engage with the world and how we challenged ourselves as artists. Does anybody go the theatre over Christmas? Ow blimey, that is a bit bleak. Anybody watch films on telly? So, a new name and, any deaf or disabled actors on television, on the stage, or in films over Chris ma that would have seen? NEW SPEAKER: Warren Davies. ,... ANDREW DIXON: Mat. NEW SPEAKER: Peter, in elf. NEW SPEAKER: Jenny: affairs.
4 people, bloody rubbish isn't it, that is a sad state of
So where are we? I started, I started as artistic director 15 years ago, I love my job but more about that later, I love it but one of my first jobs was set up a training course with 8 Graeae students and 8 RADA students, we did the tempest. The RADA students would do the acting and the movement and I would do the direction. It was a Page | 24
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
fantastic experience and a real learning curve because one Nicholas Barter, really understood that RADA were not quite ready to, to embrace inclusive auditions or teaching they just weren't quite ready. They wanted to be but needed more time to get the heads around it but also my actors desperately needed some deaf disabled, so they could be the people they were rather than, I cannot say the word, enigma. Don't want to be there, we don't want people to say, oh God isn't sign language beautiful, I didn't know a blind person can do that. We want to get on and be the best we can be, a training course, the missing piece, and we had guest directors, we had different tutors from various different drama schools. We ran the course over 5 years and it became an accredited course with London metropolitan university. At the same time. The main thing that the actors learned to be good actors. The second thing to be absolutely confident [Louisa] ... JENNY SEALEY: Ok, let's bash out a few. Let's have a few and rain man. NEW SPEAKER: Anything that that Dustin Hoffman has done. My left foot. NEW SPEAKER: Insider dance? JENNY SEALEY: Loads of good ones, so, somehow this, I don't know the answer to this, a fab play really well written, the character in this place, a wheelchair user, ends the play, the casts come forward. The actors, take their bow, the audience. Then the actor who is in the wheelchair stands up. Oh, even bigger applause, fantastic. Same scenario, all forward, oh no, he is not going to stand up. Oh he really is? Oh. Why? , why? Is it fear, really we need to address this absolutely openly, belovingly and hardly in these 2 days. What is this fear? Is it the fear that oh my God maybe one day I might become a wheelchair user, I might be, you know when you are watching a black actress, your skin colour won't change, what is it? I am asking the question, I don't know, I don't get it. Page | 25
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
I do understand that acting is about somebody else, Daniel day Lewis, did they audition any disabled actors? So you know, we can and should be paying a multitude of characters, am I the only person that thinks Hugh grant is Hugh grant in everything he does? So, to cut a long story short we want, you need to hear this we want the roles of our disabled characters and we also want to be considered for roles where disability is not necessarily the part of the narrative, yes we want it all. We have had bugger all in the past, we want it all now. So Kirsty, those of you who are directors out there, casting, it is so much fun. I love it. Acting is about understanding and interpreting text, the ability to play someone else, with emotional integrity and to graft the complexity of the rhythm of the page and the energy of the play and the interaction. People say to me, Jenny, how do you audition you know, your actors? I let you into a massive secret. It is really complicated. I put an add out, usually on the web. Make sure it is accessible, all the rest of it. A workshop audition, script formatted appropriately. If they are good, they get the job, if they are crap, they don't. Is that not how you audition people as well? So, so I work with actors who really get under the skin and Mr David Toole, he has played the he played, I can't remember the name of the character in the fall of the house of usher? NEW SPEAKER: Neither can I. JENNY SEALEY: He played the soldier in blasted. Three very, very different characters. But it is just one David Toole, dam side better than Hugh grant. He paid me to say that. So the visibility of ours changes the perception. Page | 26
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
Have I got time Caroline? I will be quick; I think I do want to do it. All right. Sorry, I have got, I need the microphone. What I want you to do, is this working? What I want to do is I want to get [name inaudible] on stage and Kevin who is somewhere. We might be doing a coproduction with Dundee rep and we want to start looking at blood wedding. Oh my god, this is not for disabled people but we are going to do it anyway. Do we have the script? Can I play around with the actors I have and the physicality or the communication stuff? Can I play around with that and just completely bugger it all up, made it accessible to a really wide disabled audience. ,. Shakespeare gets done differently all the time. All my actors are different. I will give you a glimpse, I don't really know what they are doing, neither do I. Watch. Don't take notes you won't learn nothing, but let's do it anyway. Ali get up here, this is the scene. Is this is a scene between mother and son. Mother is absolutely beside herself because her son is getting married, got one son, lost her husband, be isolated when her son goes. So would you like, we are going to read this, just, using voice Ali. Ok. For the sake of argument. Jude is going to be on interpreter on the side. That is how I watch a lot of my theatre, the interpreter on the side and the actors over here. Come over a little bit. NEW SPEAKER: Mother? ! [loud] Yes. Page | 27
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
...
What is it? Take something to eat. Leave it mother, I will eat grapes, give me the knife. To cut the grapes. The knife? , dam the knife, I dam the devil who created the knife. And the guns and the pistols, even the tiny knife, pitch forks. Anything that compares and cuts a man’s body, a glorious man, an angel. ... like a flower, goes out... to care for them. They are passed down from his father. Mother that is enough. And he never comes back. JENNY SEALEY: Ok. How lucky am I? . Deaf, has a voice, has sign language, rich, Ali, can you do mum now just signing? Ali will sign her life as the mother, Kevin will speak his lines, suddenly not accessible, not accessible to people who won't see, or don't understand signage badge. Sometimes life is about getting only half of the story. But let's give that a whirl, then I got a third. Mother? Mother! [stamps] I am away now. Page | 28
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
The vineyard. What is it?
Leave it mother, I will eat grapes, give me the knife. Cut the grapes? Enough with that mother. Yes, yes. JENNY SEALEY: Ok, so the thing that Ali is signing about the guns and the pistols and the knife it is really important. But that is in a context, you only hear Kevin, the monosyllabic answers, so we lose it. So this time Ali, can you sign the mother again. Kevin just yeah, yeah, you have heard it about a million times before, it is her mantra. banging on about the same thing, make that your character. So a different version all over again. Take 3. Mother! [stamping] I am away now, I am going to the vineyard, no, I won't wait a minute. What is the matter? Leave it, I will eat grapes, give me the knife. Yes, the knife, I know, you hate knifes, yes, dam the devil who creates the knives, enough of that, yes, guns, pistols, I know about this, you are always talking about it! [applause] [inaudible] JENNY SEALEY: So, we have the father of the bride, the mother and the son are visiting father of the bride and we have two maids, one maid who is... and one who signs. Page | 29
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
We have a mother who is still signing. We don't have to do any of this you know. We don't have to do any of this, but this is what I love doing in my rehearsal, love it. Sometimes it doesn't make any sense but always, always driven from the sometimes by placing these other elements; you start to escalate the script more densely than if you jump into it normally. So, we have got dad who is a wheelchair user, we may or may not reference that. Mum is signing. Son voice over for his mum in this formal occasion? I don't know. Up to you. Let's see what happens. Start with yes. Please come in, will you have a seat? He will be with you in a minute. I am sorry; I have no idea where we are! JENNY SEALEY: This is usually the case with David Toole. NEW SPEAKER: I have a wheelchair but no brain! Sorry. We have only met just now. Right. Please come in. Will you have a seat? They will be with you in a minute. How long did it take to get here? [shrugs] NEW SPEAKER: Four hours. Page | 30
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
NEW SPEAKER: Must have come the. How long did it take to get here?
[signing], you must have come the long way around. My mother says that, she is too old for all that scrabbling up and down the river, it makes her sick. ... Excellent. JENNY SEALEY: Ok, I will stop here. There is some horrible subjects going on here. Really horrible. Because son, from the son is really important but he maintains a good relationship with dad. The mother sat in between the dad and her son looks so vulnerable. She is having to look to the maid for the communication. Suddenly her status is diminished and the son is saying, my mother said this and my mother said that. Or, we could change all of that on the head and speak we have Jude is still signing, in my own plays always but this suddenly, this weird thing of everybody looking and thinking, what is going on here? What is going on? That is so much about what blood wedding is about. It is about what is said but what is not said and we are reinventing a whole other new sub text. Yes they are talking about this, does this service the play? Does it serve the text? Maybe not, but it is a valuable process to start to think really get to the deep, deep heart of the gut of those characters. I would like, do you mind, I am going to move on, I am aware that my time is almost up Caroline. ... come up this ramp. You can rest now. Thank you. Right, where is Emily? Page | 31
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
We have got Ali and Jude.
So, we have our Leonardo, gorgeous, strong, handsome, all man! So, Robert is my Leonardo, the bride is beautiful and we have our Emily. We have Annie and Jude and dual maids. Let's run a little bit of this theme, there is different questions which we will pose after. Ok. Ok. NEW SPEAKER: You, yes. Yes me, good morning. You are the first. Of course. Here I am. And your wife. I came on horseback. She is coming the wrong way around. Did you mean anyone else? You are going to kill that horse. Take a seat, nobody is up yet. The bride? I am going into dress her now. I expect she is very happy? And the baby? Page | 32
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
Baby?
Your son. JENNY SEALEY: Ok, they were talking about; some people will need time to tune into Robert's pattern. Earlier in the play we would have had the opportunity. We are looking at the character of Leonardo, when he meets a maid it is like; she is so not interested in her. Doesn't need to ask anything from her, she is the maid. The maid's job is to protect the bride. So yes, so I want them to do the same thing again but I don't want them to be listening to each other, they are talking over each other, a nightmare, it will be a nightmare for people to hear but it is about the energy of Leonardo’s, get in that space, straight past the maid to talk to the bride. So let's see what that is like. You, yes, me. You are the first. Of course you are invited. Here I am. Where is your wife? Go and get [talking over] You are going to kill the house. Take a seat, nobody is up yet. I am going into dress her now. And the baby. The baby? Your son. Will he be coming? JENNY SEALEY: Suddenly Robert as the character starts to really flash out. That is, as an episode it works, to think about the character and how it drives forward. Page | 33
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
Let's meet Leonardo and the bride. Move on a little bit.
This is an intimate moment but maid is still around. She is not letting him off the hook. Let's see what happens. Bring some of Robert's work back at him. Don't come out like that half-dressed. Why have you come? To the wedding. As I watched yours? You... You tied him up with both his hands. But they can't split on me, not with their silver. I never forced you. I don't I am a man of honour. [mimicking], I am a man of honour. Mine would be louder. Stop this, don't rake up the past. JENNY SEALEY: Different again, so if the maid is not voicing over for Robert, his voice is his voice, but you can play around with that, the maid is like, man of honour! She forced you, she is commenting and you start to get really under the skin of the maid!
Page | 34
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
If you, you all know Robert has a different voice pattern you do have to look and engage to get your ears around it. How sexy is that? Look. I am in heaven, that is what my rehearsal is like, I have a thrill everyday. I would like to say thank you to my actors [applause] It is just a glimpse of the world I have and how bloody lucky I am. Sometimes I can be a selfish pig, I don't want anyone else to be doing it. I love it for me, but actually no. Come on, theatre is about interpreting, it is about being different, it is about being it is about really challenging the fore and it is about being accessible. Missing out on a whole diversity of audience by not engaging with the things I am able to engage with. So, come with massive open arms and start playing with it. You will be amazed at the process, you really will be. This conference I have already said we have to unpick all of this; it has to be the final one. We have to be brutally honest with each other. If someone said, what is the point of working with disabled artists, that play is not for disabled people? Shakespeare didn't say July yet was a wheelchair user, what if she is. Stop making everything a problem and on a final note, come and see Graeae's production, shamelessly plugging this of reasons to be cheerful. It is really is a reason to be cheerful. Disabled and nondisabled cast and band. So much fun. Jude next to me, she plays Debbie who does the dancing, she dances, sings, the whole lot. She could do a one woman show. But it is going to be on at the rep. James is like someone... no we have to make theatre for everybody, that is what it is, it is for people. We are people. So, March 20th to 24th March, see you all there, have a fantastic conference and thank you for listening to me burble. [Louisa] ]
Jenny Sealey: To be confident about their access requirements and be confident about how to explain how they access rehearsals because that dismantles the Page | 35
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
sense of how do I deal with this person. They went to the audition knowing who they were and how they wanted to do it. We worked with the drama schools because they have the DADA awards trying to embrace a real diversity of disability and class. To give opportunities. In 2004 at one of the DADA things the head of a well known London based ballet school, said, Oh but! we can't have black dancers in the ballet because they have big bottoms and the tutus will stick up! They have huge feet. You could have heard a pin drop. I said what about wheelchair users? I thought she would keel over. If you think about it, the ballet world was fiercely white, about sameness.
Can we have some music? [ music ] Okay! Right. So we have Swan Lake. Turn to the person next to you and have a chat about ... talk about which part of the body you want to move. The shoulders etc. Which part of the body are you going to move?
Jenny Sealey: Okay! When the music starts, be a ballerina. In your own Swan Lake. Can we have the music?
Jenny Sealey: Sorry! I will have to do mine with the mic. I love it! thank you. [applause] See how easy it is! You can turn the music off now. Its not always about slotting us into the old but reinventing the old and giving it a new spin. I think one of the things that was difficult for dance schools is the rigidity around assessment. The I have had so many arguments with drama teachers - I am looking at Maggie over there! The state of neutral is about your personal alignment, the breath flowing in and around your body, looking inwards into your mind's eye. Neutral is about having two feet flat on the floor, body fairly straight. Page | 36
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
What? No, it's not. It's your own personal definition of neutral. That is one argument. The other is around voice versus British Sign Language. The voice is the tool to communicate but hands are a tool to communicate. To sign and move your hands you must breathe, understand text, your character, your hands become the character. Changing the voice to sign. But some of the training can be the same especially in terms of breathing. "Oh no we are not having that. " Its such bureaucracy stopping the teachers who want to do it. The bosses are putting the fear of God into the teachers because they must train the actors for the profession. They say there are not enough disabled characters in plays. its staggering, the inability to not think imaginatively around casting. We are sons and daughters, parents and actors. We are many things, not just defined by being a wheelchair user. My heroine is Marley Matlin. She is shit hot! A hot lawyer. And Mat in Metrosexual, a heroine dealer in that. No reference made to his physicality . This baffles me. Does our impairment have to be scripted? this is a review on a play on blindness - there is a deaf actor, a blind actress and a chap with little in the way of arms. No-one mentions the fact the portrait painter has truncated arms. This is odd considering his occupation. It reveals more about the prejudice of the reviewer than the play. Has he not heard of the artists who are foot painters. We are criticised if we don't mention disability and criticised if we do.
A review by Kate O'Reilly for the Independent. It is presented by Graeae whose performers are all disabled, some with tiny limbs and another who is deaf. “As a critic for the general audience I was not engaged. It's not a play but a vehicle for presenting the feelings of handicapped people�. We wrote back, not to salivate because it was a bad review. She didn't like the play. You take it. Our point was, why? Why was it important to mention that one of the actors had a torso the same side as her head? It's not only incorrect but offensive. This is a national newspaper. What was interesting, the letter, it evoked a response from the black artists community. People say, not again! But if they don't do a play around black issues they are told they should! Never stop being political about putting Page | 37
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
controversial issues into the public domain. You can be just as political with an all black cast doing Cat on a Hot Tin Roof. There is the need to combat prejudice and fight for the right to be trained. Its only 20 years since black people were allowed into drama schools. We are still lagging behind.
The play, Mogadishu, had great reviews. A brilliant play. I went to see Robert Softley's play Girl X at Dundee Rep - it was provocative and in your face and devastating and challenging and the reviews were good. One guy said, worthy. Yes. Worthy? Can we banish that word from the dictionary today? It's gone from now. The NTS have done so much work embracing deaf and disabled artists. Vicky Fetherstone was on the board and she gets it. The same is true with the National Theatre of Wales. Our national in England have a disabled person once every 10 years. In 2008 only then did they have the first original play written by a woman. You would never black up? A confab with the person next to you. Films about disabled characters played by non disabled people. Have a chat.
LUKE PELL: Can we have a few microphones? Can we have microphones? While we set up. While we set up, is that working, can you hear me? These two who I haven't yet to meet. You must be Caroline and Jerry. Take a seat. LUKE PELL: I think this morning it is nice to hear about some of the barriers and the issues, and the things we have identified we needed to move forward. This afternoon we will drill deeper into how we make the path ways, we have been joined by several people from different disciplines, sectors and country. I will introduce their banal, the biographies are in the packs, you can look at your pack rather than subjecting people to great embarrassment. I need my notes; I Page | 38
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
have the job of being strict time keener. So, each panellist is going to speak for about 2 minutes, so we joined by Caroline and Gerry and Caroline is the participation and training manager at promote YT and Gerry, the artistic director of Solar Bear. Paula hocking and Lio Moscardini is the lecturer in the school of, at the University of Strathclyde. First of all, Caroline and Gerry about the first steps of working with young people. Ok. NEW SPEAKER: Can I check, 2 minutes or 10 minutes? LUKE PELL: Two. NEW SPEAKER: Hello everyone. I am Caroline Donald, training... for promote YT and. GERRY RAMAGE: Artistic director of Solar Bear, it is home to deaf youth theatre, we affectionately call it DYT. CAROLINE: We are here to talk about a successful partnership we created. It was a deaf awareness project. This project provided the opportunity for Scotland's deaf youth theatre, the only one of its kind in the UK to participate in the festival supported by a programme of training, awareness and support. Promote YT the national development agency for youth theatre in Scotland. We work with the sector providing platforms to sun port advocacy, training and exchange. Youth theatre is the starting point for many. I am not sure how many of you were members of a youth theatre, I know I wouldn't be sitting here if it wasn't for the Ulster Youth Theatre experience I had, it is written in that every young person in Scotland should have access to a quality youth theatre experience and all of the youth theatres we work with, work hard to ensure that every young person has this. First impressions count and if a young person's first engagement with the arts is a positive one, then their path way begins. Page | 39
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
GERRY RAMAGE: Ok, let me give you a bit of background on. Yes, let me give you a bit of background to DYT, we have been going for 4 years now, established in 2008 we are home to 25 young deaf and deafened and hard of hearing people all of whom are between the ages of 14 and 21. They come from across central Scotland and use a range of communications methods from BSL to spoken English. DYT really has been the catalyst for a whole host of satellite projects that Solar Bear deliver in the belief that if we are going to engage young deaf people in theatre we have to approach that from really from all angles. One of our projects that we deliver is called deaf theatre club and we deliver that in partnership with the National Theatre of Scotland. Deaf theatre clubs since it was established in November has seen about 135 deaf audience members coming to 5 NTS productions which is a huge development on previous attendances and probably about 200 deaf people come along to DYT's performances and presentations. There is a whole host of projects around DYT which I could go into if we had time. Suffice to say we really believe that by engaging with the whole deaf community we will be able to engage better with deaf artists and performers of tomorrow. CAROLINE... we constantly try and challenge the young people who attend and the programme; in 2011 we invited deaf youth theatre to come to the festival. Following the initial excitement that came from this opportunity we chatted a lot about camping in Fife and how much fun that would be. Then DYT, known as tea in the park for drama geeks, then realised we had to do work to make sure the festival was fully accessible for the young people. We thought it was accessible, participants every year with additional needs but this was the first time that deaf young people were taking part and we needed the best people to inform us how best to inform them or DYT themselves. It is really important to us that every young person feels comfortable and confident in communicating with one another as you might imagine, social networking is one of the most vital parts of the festival for young people. Page | 40
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
Through this deaf awareness project, our objectives, to support the participation of DYT in the programme. That we provided BSL interpretation of all performances, workshops and events. Support workers, to give extensive training for all staff, to raise awareness of young deaf performers to the wider theatre sector and public audiences. Wanted to provide a legacy to the youth theatre sector with the aim of equipping them be the tools and the confidence to open up their regional youth theatres and opportunity to young deaf young people and those with other disabilities. We are happy to say we achieved all of the objectives through our partnership working but the biggest achievement I feel, was to see the friendships forming with all the young people. The training that played a role was delivered free of charge to all. They received workshops, training pack, and DYT made an entertaining DVD, went out to all entertainers, giving dos and don'ts of how to speak to deaf people. The participants all asked in advance to create a sign name for themselves, which is a sign nickname, these were used by the young people in workshops, games and exercises. A total of 565 people were engaged with the project, might seem like a small number but through small steps we can achieve big things. One thing that stood out was something that one of the members said. They said, wow, they are just like us, only hearing. Talk about building bridges? GERRY RAMAGE: I guess we quite underestimated the impact that the participation in the festival would have not only on our young people but on all of the young people attending the festival. Everyone of them very quickly realised that they were all there equally to share in the event equally and to shear a creative cultural event on equal terms. Very clearly in establishing DYT we hadn't really thought about the longer term. But many of our young people at DYT show a great deal of talent and I think that the level of talent demonstrated in our DYT members has come as a surprise to everybody and what we kind of didn't expect was for them to turn around and say, I would really like to be an actor. We had done quite a few of them said; I would really like to be an actor and clearly have the potential to do so. Page | 41
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
Here in Scotland, as Ramesh said earlier, no role models, there has been no way of training young deaf people in the business. So that that has led us in Solar Bear on to the next stage of our development in our work. In March this year, we are going to be piloting deaf theatre school, that is for young people over 1, who have expressed an interested in theatre, who have showed the talent and potential. Deaf theatre skills school pilot will be delivered in partnership and the support from the royal Conservatoire Scotland, who are working with us to make this open up this training opportunity for young deaf people. So we will be piloting that this year, culminating in a performance of the archers live festival in September, October. A slightly longer term plan which we hope to get away next year, begin a 3 year course for young deaf actors and with actors and partnership with the Conservatoire we really believe that our young people have the potential and the creativity to be Scotland's first generation of deaf actors and we are absolutely committed to making that happen. CAROLINE: I will finish off by saying, we feel this model of this project is a good example of something positive that can happen from an idea and that, there is a bigger picture, we want to create an access all areas project nationwide. We did a survey, 20% of youth leader members were young people with disabilities or additional needs. We want to make sure that we can increase that numbers and we can only do that through partnership working, small partnerships, big partnerships and so that anyone who wants to go on the road to a creative career gets the best send-off possible. Thank you. [applause] LUKE PELL: Thank you for bringing in within time. I think, what is interesting as well, we have seen the infrastructure that is here today, what is that infrastructure and network for young people, when you create the opportunity it is there, what happens next and how we move them on. So I think Paula is also going to talk about the experience and aspirations of young people with her group wheel fever in the southwest. Page | 42
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
PAULA HOCKING: I will just pop up a picture, is that ok? Because I think it is nice to look at rather than looking at me. Caroline, Caroline came to Plymouth and met some of the young people we worked with, was really impressed with them, so that is why I am here really, they are a creative bunch. That is for you to watch, sorry. We set wheel fever up in 200... as a youth dancer worker and a mum of a disabled child, I could see there was a disconnection in what was developing in the professional dance world where inclusion was becoming easier or you know, just more welcoming and those spaces were opening up for disabled dance artists and the reality that is young people I meeting with, were saying, how can I dance? Some of the children who were in special needs schools they did have some provision but they didn't have the opportunity to get involved with like youth dance groups so outside of the institute, so therefore enjoy the same benefits that other young people that was working with, would enjoy, would come as being part of a dance group. In the main stream, the kids we met in main stream school there was no inclusion, for pathetic reasons like the wheelchair marking the dance hall or a health and safety risk. The parents had the common cultural view of a dancer and therefore they felt uncomfortable about their young people not being able to be involved. They couldn't really see how that could happen. No local opportunities at the time. So, I offered 3 workshops we just put the word out and said, just come, explore and play. I did what I normally do with a youth dance group. Wanted to create a piece for performance and we did that. Here is the first crew that performed. There you go. They were the first crew, 9 young people and clearly, with the blues brothers impetus to start the dance. So, I then organised a show case so they could perform their piece, so share that with family and friends and I invited Sue Smith, of the early can Candoco days, I asked her to bring a film to inspire the young people. She brought a couple of films, once the films were finished, you could hear a pin drop. It was a whole new Page | 43
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
experience. You can sense like, that is a new opportunity for new creative opportunities coming. On the back of that, I rallied Sue and Kaldip, got them involved with helping me organise a programme where we could bring young people, disabled and nondisabled together and just explore the possibilities. My hope was that one day we would be able to provide something that was constant. Didn't know how we get there. I knew, there needed to be an equal opportunity. Our current provision is that we run monthly access workshops where young people can come just to find their bodies, where it can be a positive creative experience for them so their bodies contribute to something of really beautiful process rather than it be a negative thing that the physio have examined them. We have a holiday club; we have a consistent workshop once a week now on a Friday evening. Out of that some of the young people able to form a dance company. Part of the Cultural Olympiad programme, across ten schools in Plymouth with other youth dance schools. The ethos of the work is based on collective values and experiences, as a community practitioner, I think everybody should have an opportunity to be involved in dance. As a youth workers I love it to see young people’s confidence grow, no matter who they are, the communication skills grow, to build into the aspirations. As a mum I was aware of the family pressures that is sometimes around a child's situation. We are able to support the young people to help them be part of the programme via, we will employ inclusion workers. Sometimes we can actually help out with travel costs. The other lead dance artist Sue and Kaldip for them it is all about the movement, it is this that determines the quality of the delivery and that is what puts the value on the contribution and the movement that is drop developing from the young people and the creative voice. It is not a patronising environment. We love to challenge them to raise their own game and work with the aspirations. We trust that our art form is transformative and empowers but it is not therapy, it is just equality. We listen to the young people, we have a youth steering committee, they named wheel fever, it seems a funny name, they chose it, it stuck. They are doing a logo because we are stepping things up. They talk about how they want to change Page | 44
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
their bit for the world. They lead our agenda for change. We create opportunities for them to support their aspirations but it is not about what we think should be changed. We really trying to, only working with what they want to co. We are excited about the potential and that is like the possibility, both in a small dance space, the possibility of what could happen as well as what might happen in the bigger picture. We currently have 4 young people who want to pursue that on-going practice. We have got one young lady in the university doing a BA in dance theatre. We work in a coaching capacity with her so mentoring and helping fill the learning gaps where she didn't do A level dance in that way. We got another young lady, wants to be a dance teacher, taking her through a dance leaders award. Which is a nice simple path to follow, take up to 2 years to do. Gives her plenty of time. The third young man, he was told by a Connexions career officer, that there is no point in him applying to the B. tech arts; we are going to have a conversation with the department there and open up the possibility, to open up the possibility. Then we have Edward, I think Edward is in the picture there, he is in all the pictures. He wants to be an actor and a theatre maker and he has no doubt that is actually possible, which is fabulous. So, my concluding thoughts, I think I am well in time, which is fabulous is that you know, my conviction is that by providing young people with an equal opportunity to participate in practice and access training, we open the possibilities for the next generation to be skilled and competent performers and theatre makers. I will flip a couple of pictures on to this; draw your attention to Amelia. [pointing] In this picture, Amelia is 6; she came to us when she was 5. A great day when you know that she will always know she can dance, that to me was a great day when she came. For her, that is one barrier for her, one barrier less for her to contend with. Thank you. [applause] Page | 45
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
[Louisa] ...
Mat Fraser: Thank you Jenny. Fantastic. Rocking on there. A quick summary of the morning - Andrew spoke of Creative Scotland broad spectrum and the funding intentions which were concentrated on the artistic careers. We have seen Jenny exemplify the aspects that bug the crap out of her and she wishes to propagate that. Some of my thoughts, allowing impairment to inform the subtext that bolsters the characterisations of characters must be an expansion of the piece and not a reduction which is often what I see - a reduction. I don't go to the theatre to hear someone say oh he is Chinese! I put it into verse because I like to do that. Andrew spoke about the gaps that need plugging and there are many. We will find the gaps because we DO mind them and make a map. [LAUGHTER] I am used to it! It's a conference. Always the technical stuff that fucks up first. Was that harsh? I am sorry. We will find the gaps and make a map that avoids the crap, so we can then create a theatre thus defined by inclusive design. If architects can do it surely the creative arts can? [applause] So now, we will have a short film - the Wasing. A series of Scottish artists stories and Jenny';s. A short 13 minute film before we break for lunch.
[ subtitled film ]
[applause]
Mat Fraser: Wow! That was good. I felt that was film succinctly prĂŠcised everything we have tried to say in a brilliant 13 minute film. Welcome to the film Page | 46
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
makers. I will send you to lunch with a thought. Please network. The real action is in the networking. Don't go anywhere yet. We saw how Jenny confronted the reactionary refusal to accept people with different body and speech in drama. That is in the physical realm, its a bigger issue in dance. We are not stupid and should easily come up with relative ways of doing the same exciting thing with dancers in choreography and hopefully we will see more of that in the next day and a half. Thank you for the morning session. Lunch is at Hendersons and Dalbetty. See you in an hour and a quarter. Get back a bit early and that won't hurt. Thank you. [applause]
[ lunch ]
Mat Fraser: Hello everyone and welcome back to Pathways to the Profession . Once again, we are going to ... the morning was people talking and the guys listening and this will be more interactive and activity based. Hopefully you have not had too heavy a carb lunch. Please switch off your mobile phones and other noisy electronic devices in your bag. So, now we are going to have an artistic intervention by a 17 year old pupil, Jodie Taylor from Glasgow. She describes herself as full of energy and was involved in Make Music Move for 3 years. We will first show a film, featuring Jodie and Matt Lackford, part of the Make Music summer school 2011. First, lets watch the film. [see screen]
[applause]
Mat Fraser: Page | 47
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
Great.
That Make Music programme was developed by Caroline Bowditch and Ninian Perry. They are exploring the relationship between music and dance using the two to stimulate each other. As Jodie approaches the stage, someone make the microphone point to her mouth. Welcome to Jodie Taylor. [applause]
Jodie Taylor: My name is Jodie Taylor and I am 17. I was introduced to Make Music move in 2009. I was coerced into it! Our family and friends are always on the look out for activities I might like. When I was younger I joined the Brownies, a work out for my auntie Eileen who took me every Friday. That wasn't for me. I got roped into a youth theatre called The Eejits, which I am. But that wasn't for me. When I heard about a dance workshop in Glasgow at the Tramway, I was hesitant. When my mother sets her mind to something you may as well give in! When I arrived there was a small group of disabled girls, Ninian and the musicians and the dancers. I danced with one of the guys, who you saw in the film. I wasn't too cooperative in the beginning as I didn't get it. As the days passed I realised I could listen to the music and move at the same time, perform in the group and as part of a duet. People depended on me to get it right. The first show was amazing but then it was over for a year. As the following summer approached I made sure my mum got the dates in the diary and I had something to look forward to. That followed an invitation to the Dance Day in Dundee and we travelled on a modified coach and performed in front of a real audience, people who expected us to perform well. 2011 was better. We worked with Live Dance and they got as much from the experience as we did and we performed at the big dance day again. Roll on the summer,. I leave school this year and would love the opportunity to do more and get further in dance, perhaps make a career from it. The House of Lords are debating cuts to the allowances that make it possible for Page | 48
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
me to be here. What chance is there for training? Caroline and Ninian have changed my life and given me encouragement and challenged me. I can't walk or run. But I can dance. I am Jodie Taylor. Thank you. [applause]
Mat Fraser: Thank you very much. That was hugely entertaining watching someone reverse down a ramp. Whilst we reconfigure the stage, we are going to have a panel discussion chaired by Luke. One of the most good looking men in the room - the head of learning and development for Candoco Dance company and a key driver. He leads on the new partnership and wrote and convened a masters in inclusive dance for the Royal Academy of Dance and is a visiting lecturer, trained in contemporary performance and is an independent artist and facilitator and collaborates with artists to bring dance and art to audiences in unusual places. He continues to work with unique dance productions. He was associate producer of Counterpoint and probably the only person with the full CV read out today! Sorry to embarrass you. Handing over to Luke Pell now.
Luke Pell: Do we have a mic?
LUKE PELL: Thank you, and thank you to the speakers, Gerry, Caroline, Imogen, all interesting and distinct. We will move into the interactive part now I believe. Which is your opportunity to talk and reflect on what you have heard so far today and I would really like to steer people towards what Imogen was pointing out with her recommendations which is action. If you look at your lanyards you have a spot. A coloured spot. You are going to go to a room that corresponds with that coloured spot. There are people appearing to the back who will guide you to the right space. When you get to the room, you will have a facilitator who will Page | 49
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
pose questions to you; in that group they will pose the question and then come back with possibility actions after the refreshment break. Look at the back, show them your spot and they will tell you where to go. [breakout sessions] ... We think we have red dots on our badges, if you don't have a red dot we are just supposedly in charge of this part of the interactive part of the day which are hands off really. We need to break you into probably about 3 groups of 10. We will wander around and pose a question which Caroline said we were we were meant to come along and pose it. We will pose it in a few minutes and then we have to all come back together in a big group and James is going to write everything down then I am on your behalf going to report back after a break, what we think and it maybe we come up with one or two things, in which case that will be fine. Could be we come up with loads of things, in which case we might prioritise the most important things that come out of our collective discussion. Is that clear? No? NEW SPEAKER: The only thing I would add, as if you are in the groups, if you need interpreters or anything like that, these guys will be around, we try and help you out. NEW SPEAKER: Anyone need the script on the TV? Nobody needs that? Yes, you do. Ok. So we can organise how that works within that group so you need to be with that group is that all right? So, if you can organise yourselves, probably about 3 groups James?
NEW SPEAKER: Hello. Page | 50
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
Sorry to interrupt everybody. We will just wait for them to stop.
Sorry to cut short that discussion, which we went from group to group, was really interesting but we are conscious of the timetable that we have been ordered to stick to. So what we need to do now is do I need this? No? Why am I sticking with the microphone? So that you can hear me. Yes, so, we have got about 10 minutes, so maybe 3 or 4 minutes per group ok, it doesn't need a spokesperson, it just needs ideas and we will write them down and then we will order them and then report back. So, do we want to start with this group here? NEW SPEAKER: Yes, one of the points we thought was. Yes, there was a lot of informal activities leading to formal but maybe not reaching that employment stage that was one of the areas for focus. Anyone else want to add in from that? We were talking about the transition from the informal and access into the formal training and then the next bit of the transition into employment. So specifically we were in the transition moments. NEW SPEAKER: Did you have ideas about how to make that transition smoother or more effective or you were definitely talking about something which had an action point. NEW SPEAKER: Well we were talking probably about the need in Scotland to create like a national framework so we need to map, we need to find out what is there already, what is working effectively and what transitions and what is not and the gaps and build the framework, we think there is quite a bit of work to do. We thought there might be a need to create a group from today that might need to work to do that. I think you overhead, talking of the fact that there is already, a couple of college in higher education, a drama training network, exploring the possibility of Page | 51
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
becoming a dance and drama training network. If that is formal, that could have the informal and formal bit and build the connections. NEW SPEAKER: The idea of a group emerging from this conference to take it forward is a really good idea. Right. Cool. Anything else? NEW SPEAKER: One other thing maybe was it was good seeing maps with a couple of two or three that we saw, just enhanced a lot of what has been discussed here, it is good to see it and to see where it is, moving forward to see that people can see happens as well as talking about. NEW SPEAKER: I will go over here; Caroline had a view about just doing it as well. I am just handing you the microphone. NEW SPEAKER: Yes, well, at the end of the day I kind of think we all as individuals need to do whatever we can because it is easy to sit and say, the power makers, the power breakers, we all as individuals can make a difference, even if it is not within our paid employment. I don't think we were quite as ordered as you. Equal access, whether or not there can be a CATs map that could be useful so people know what is out there and whether it could be for them. Talked about positive discrimination and how actually you probably knead it not that that should, not that we should be funding people well, what is the word? Yes without quality comes to that whole quality thing but you know, if we can't find the people from different sectors with the qualities that we need, then we need to invest money and try and get them to a place where they do have the qualities we need. Might take us longer. Something about designers yes. It should be. NEW SPEAKER: It should be that it is not just about the people who are the directors, the casting, also set designers as well. So it is part of every organisation that equality and access is at the heart of all of them. So it is a more of a holistic approach. Page | 52
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
NEW SPEAKER: Did you come up with any ideas of how to realise that? NEW SPEAKER: Loads. NEW SPEAKER: Too many to share? Oh, good. Anything else? NEW SPEAKER: Talked about joining people. NEW SPEAKER: Like networks again?
NEW SPEAKER: No, creative partnerships so I was talking about [inaudible] and how we take a great idea, perhaps doesn't have the skills to... put them together with an experienced dancer or theatre maker and see what amazing relationship can come out of that and what amazing piece of work. NEW SPEAKER: Also like, conversation you as a producer, to pair people off. Is that the only way to happen or ? NEW SPEAKER: Well for me it is about the potential, to have NEW SPEAKER: Only NTS to do that, or think of other NEW SPEAKER: Every organisation can choose to do what they want can't they? Yes, if you want to do it, do it, surely? NEW SPEAKER: I think you have to have it. NEW SPEAKER: Is there specific funding streams to help that process? NEW SPEAKER: Not that I have come across. NEW SPEAKER: So maybe it is a suggestion, oh Robert. NEW SPEAKER: The funny thing is... [inaudible] for free... NEW SPEAKER: Also well get funding and most organisations get funding so it is how you choose to spend it and how you prioritise your spending. We do this [inaudible] Page | 53
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
NEW SPEAKER: Could I.
I spent 30 years of my working life working more or less exclusively in arts and education so I remember the 80's. Things are for me, personally, as bad now as they were then. My problem is, not about the opportunities of funding but the short term temporary nature. For the 30 years I have done my work, for the 30 years’ experience and hard core evidence that I can give you for the shit hot stuff that we can coin partnership and joined up with other organisations, I still have to be dependent on trusting foundations and project based work. I don't have a budget and I never have had a budget, they gave me the faith and the confidence to do what I know I can do. Along with all of the people that I would work with. So if there is a fund that allows me and the rest of you to do that, where is it? NEW SPEAKER: Ok, this group? Is that mike over there? Do you about to move it over there. NEW SPEAKER: If I can give you the mike over to you, on the spot.
please, I hate being put
NEW SPEAKER: So, we did introductions, found out about each other and then we talked about when we were given the question about the things that were useful that were seen to talked about today. We talked about, now I have gone completely blank, what did we talk about? Well I rambled about partnerships and the brilliant partnerships and the obvious, you can do more in a partnership that you can ever do on your own and that is all what else did we talk about? We talked about, talking about questioning excellence, who defines it. We talked about the absolute need to have grass roots up in terms of the training routes but there was a conversation about the, there is that what seems to be available in Scotland at the moment if I get this right about there being perhaps some doors open and some resources available at the higher level whereas in education, the opportunities for those path ways to be developed are being cut and maybe also on the sort of community level as well, those resources not being available. What else did we talk about? Page | 54
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
NEW SPEAKER: I suppose what you were saying, there is a degree depending on which way you look at it at work from grass root levels. If you are raising aspirations and raising aspirations to have the door closed to you, then what are we kind of building as a community? Then, anything else? NEW SPEAKER: Towards the end of, there was comments about employment and actually and I suppose it leads into the point which is fed by the, led by excellence. Great examples of inclusive practice, one of the things out of the research you can see the map. It is not a good map in one sense but at least showing there is lots of inclusive practice happening. Where is the excellence routes? Where are the young disabled artists aspiring to? Where can they see the employment opportunities? In the circle hear, clearly you have got Candoco and... for disabled artists to employ, where are they? They are not showing themselves. It is very difficult. We have got to consider the excellence routes, that is why I was keen to commission the research it is important that we get it right. There is a great resource there, the money is there but we are not using it properly. That is practical. NEW SPEAKER: How do we, any ideas about how we address that, the group over here, the connection of routes through school, networks, into professional training is that the answer? NEW SPEAKER: Because of the class scheme. What we are doing with the research, goes back to the department of education, saying, this doesn't work for disabled young people. It can work, this is the model that will enable it to work and hopefully getting more young disabled dancers through professional training, so as a department of education piece of advocacy and getting the... and they can understand how exclusive and full of barriers that bit of education that is too. Hopefully people coming through for employment. NEW SPEAKER: Just the definition that Jenny gave about excellence earlier, which I think was important because I think definitely, everything to do with training is hugely important but then the institution itself and broader areas about how we expand our idea of what excellence might be I think would be really useful to sort of brainstorm. Page | 55
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
NEW SPEAKER: I want to second that, I think, think that is so important because as Jenny said this morning, if the definition of excellence which in society works to is created by and forgive me, but created by white, middle class people, usually people without disability, bla, bla, bla, if that is who says what is good enough, then huge sectors of society are excluded so we have to redefine excellence. We have to say what is excellence? What do we mean by that? It is difficult to do that, I think we really have to do it and challenge the existing definitions because you know, we know that societal norms are held in place by oppressive regimes, let's challenge it. NEW SPEAKER: We could have that as an action point to their action point. Good. Anything else? Ok, what we should do, we should break there, I think there is tea and coffee for you. We have to work now to make that some kind of coherent sense. Thank you for participating we will see you after the break. NEW SPEAKER: We would like you to take your tea and coffee to the under the clock sessions. George lamb, Lawrence Shapiro, Miranda Lawrence are going to be talking. You can drop in and out. Thank you. [break] [Louisa]
...
Luke Pell: Good afternoon. Are we nearly seated and collected and calm? If anyone happens to be hiding in the back come back to the front please. If any of the panelists are lurking could you return to your seat at the table? Page | 56
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
Mat Fraser: Hi everyone. We are waiting for a few stragglers. And then we are going to do the feedback session led by Luke. Wonderful. Thank you.
Luke Pell: Is that the last lot of people drifting in at the back? Welcome back from your very active discussions. Everyone was very busy and as always we are aware its impossible to respond to this in a short time. Each group had a specific question to focus the conversations you were having. So we are aware of the questions asked they are up on the screen. [reads the question from the screen ] We are recognising we work in different contexts and settings and sometimes have to think more broadly to shift the model into a different place. Who isn't here? based on your expertise and area of work who needs to hear about these issues and actions? The final group talked about the skills and expertise that are important to the success of the projects? From what you heard, the role models and people as practitioners what are the skills that are vital to take things forward? I asked the facilitators to focus on the highlights and the priorities and the panel may wish to respond to the things you raised. We have 20 minutes to do this and shall keep it brief. Then there is the networking afterwards. Is that clear? I will go straight to Adam Benjamin who was working with a group of people who had very very ... vibrant manic ...
New Speaker: I was a B. What was extraordinary was the energy of the groups and discussion. I won't pretend I will be able to speak to these exactly. I will go through these and go like this from time to time. If you want to flesh out these points please feel free. In terms of things that were useful and we want to emulate , a map of Scotland for disability provision. That is a great notion. For Scotland.
New Speaker: And Ireland. Page | 57
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
New Speaker: And the South West. [LAUGHTER]
New Speaker: And Wales.
New Speaker: Everywhere! When we saw the under ground map earlier I thought it would be useful for Plymouth and I will nick that idea. Hopefully lots of us are thinking about that. A way of tracking and collecting the models knowledge and research. That is reflecting on the idea of pulling in the information and making it accessible. An alliance for disabled people - community dance. Ken do you want to speak to that?
New Speaker: We have these kinds of meetings every 2 years and lose sight of each other in between and what we hear about at the meetings and the work that happens in between. We lose contact with each other. Its great to meet some of the old friends you forgot you have. There is new technology that more people are using and participating in and we should find ways of revealing more about what is hidden that we don't know about and keeping contact with the incipient debates growing all the time - in education, training, professional development, schools and community practice. Research that we have seen today - Leo's research in music may be more widely spread. I know that [MISSED INFORMATION] wanted to do a similar thing around primary schools and how many wheelchair user children were told to sit at the side of the gym.
New Speaker: Ken is director of community dance foundation - a useful place to look for information. To let go of history and old models and pick up from now. I get the feeling that some of us have done this conference in various forms since 1993 and there is a long cycle. There is something about this one that I get the Page | 58
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
sense of an element of change in the air, that I haven't felt before. Keep persisting with what we are doing even if its not comprehensive. Is that you, Louise?
New Speaker: I can elaborate. Part of it is there are lots of different things happening at different levels and we want to create the comprehensive plan and there is a will to do that . There are so many issues that come up and its important we don't let the complexity discourage us and we go forward with passion and commitment and we get that the underground map... inspired me. The dots will eventually create a connection. Keep persisting with what you are doing even if things are lacking. We have to keep going.
New Speaker: Thank you. That notion of some things we have talked about, connectivity, we have replicated the research at the same time though we found out about it at the same time. We both have maps of the U.K with information. Is yours accessible?
New Speaker: No.
New Speaker: I beat her! You can go to MY website! [LAUGHTER] There is information there and we will share that information and put it on one site at a certain point. Its a case of going to the site and clicking on your region and all the websites of different providers are there. Its got a couple. What I would ask, go there and if you are not there we will put you on it. We are all there. We will put it teacher at some point in the near future. What are we going to do for Jodie? What does she want? That is a lovely question to drop into the next step. Does anyone want to speak to that?
New Speaker: It can't be seasonal. Page | 59
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
New Speaker: Can you repeat that?
New Speaker: Jodie can't be a seasonal event. She doesn't just come out in the spring! [LAUGHTER] We are moving towards one not on there.
Luke Pell: So we have time to hear from everyone.
New Speaker: Ambassadors in high places who will sign post and communicate when any move shaker moves on. That is key. It doesn't reside in individuals and when individuals move on, and there will be a lot of moving on soon, the information and practice is embedded in the culture of the place. Pre-vocational training for all young talented dancers.
Luke Pell: I will pass the mic to James. And James! [LAUGHTER] Who were looking at the question - what things are difficult to transfer.
New Speaker: We will do this together.
New Speaker: I am James, the chief executive of Dundee Rep and this is James.
New Speaker: The shadow director for Scottish Dance theatre.
Page | 60
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
New Speaker: We will summarise the conversations within the three groups - the red group. There was a difference of opinion. a sense of the need to convince the big players versus the different point of view, don't bother, keep working on exciting and ground breaking projects and let them catch up. That was a tension in the conversations.
Luke Pell: Thank you, Paula. Its a recurring theme of entitlement. I am excited by the research around this - who gets to play? Its an important question that runs through all our concerns.
New Speaker: I am from the university of Strathclyde. I teach and run courses and research additional support needs. I work to a definition that is relevant to the study that includes social and environmental factors too. Something that prompted the study, and I forgot to say this in the CV, I am a qualified primary teacher and worked in mainstream and special schools. I was also a professional musician. I had that background. What prompted the study was teaching a girl guitar, who had cerebral palsy. There were a number of stories like that that prompted me to seek funding. I was looking to see who gets to play in primary schools. I am happy to answer questions and similarly with the theoretical framework. We take musical activity as a basic human right. Not as a form of therapy. There should be equality of opportunity. It's not enough to be told we have that representation - there should be equality of opportunity to take part. The main question is as follows - [see screen] The design was mixed methods looking across 30 primary schools in 3 local authorities and we looked at policy documents at the service levels and in schools and interviewed the music instructors and head teachers. We looked at the processes underlying the procedure and quantitative methods. We found that the total school population was 5122 children. We found of that number, 323 received instrumental lessons. The representation of children with additional support needs was 1 in 7, lower than the 1 in 4 of the total school population. We then looked at the 45 children Page | 61
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
who received lessons. This was last year when the school were working to 5 to 14 attainment levels. There were a significant number of children towards the top end of average to well above average. Only 36 were below and not more than a year below the norm for the age group. That rules out immediately children with severe learning disabilities. When we looked at areas of disability, we found out of the 45, 28 of them were in a specific learning disability dyslexia category, pulling in factors to do with social issues. 4 were emotional and behavioural difficulties and 2 were other, ie, nothing specified. Two had English as an additional language and 2 had social work involvement and 2 had hearing impairment and one attention deficit. Out of 5000 children not one was identified with a significant learning disability or a significant physical impairment. The documents said, across the authorities, to help as many pupils realise their potential. There were processes for selection but they were left down to the individuals. Every instructor interviewed used the process. There is the tension between the aspiration and the rhetoric of inclusion and the equality of opportunity. There was the idea to produce new musicians. They were willing to teach a wide range of children but felt constrained. They said things such as [see screen]
It was the if they can. It was dependent on mobility, have they good enough hands to play the cello. [ reads quote ] It was as long as they can statements. There was a lot of that. On equality of opportunity the head teacher there are certain criteria but its open to anyone who wants it. [LAUGHTER] Professional development - there were a number of issues around this that came across, particularly from local authorities and at every level. Local authorities said this was an area they had to work on. One local authority had done cpd in that area but no-one could recall it. There were issues around the understanding of terminology and the experience was very specific. They would do a session on dyslexia but nothing about the understanding of disability and the language they use. One instructor said, “I did teach a mongo once�! That is just ignorance. There is a lot of work to do there . Page | 62
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
The conclusion - this was written into a paper out for review and I take the last paragraph. [see screen] That was the concluding paragraph from the paper. thank you. [applause]
Luke Pell: What is nice, we are hearing more of the persuasive tools for different audiences stories about experiences versus academic research. We have someone to talk about the work around Opening Pathways.
New Speaker: Hi, great to be here and hear about the projects going on. I will give a snapshot of a research project we are doing and the findings coming out and the practical recommendations we have been thinking about. There is the catchy title of the project - the identification and development of exceptional students with disabilities. It came about in recognition of the fact that in dance in England there is little in the way of high level training for students. with disabilities. What can we do about that? I will explain the pathways into dance in the next few slides. Can the centres of advanced training represent a pathway into training for young people with disabilities? We looked at issues of talent identification and development and training for young disabled dancers. The centres are called CATS for short. Quicker to say! The CATS offer high quality part-time training to young people aged 10 to 18 for young people around England. Within the training the young people get lessons in advanced styles and creative sessions and health sessions and get choreography and performance opportunities. The CATS are different to other pre-vocational schools because they are non residential and young people come in in a weekend day and a week day and continue at their Page | 63
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
secondary schools and other hobbies. The success rates are high - around 95% of graduates who want to do further training and successful in their aim. Ie, full-time vocational training and universities and colleges. The first cohort of graduates are in professional companies such as Scottish Dance Theatre . So with the context of CATS and how they might become even more inclusive we had a research project which had two parts. A scoping strand to see what is out there already and secondly, looking at talent identification and development through interviews with experts. I will present the first part as the second part is still on going.
So the scoping strand took several months as we looked at what is out there across England - it could be a range of different dance styles. We did email call outs and searching on the internet and contacts that we made. The outcomes are a directory listing all the opportunities across the regions of England with as much detailed information as we could include - who is it aimed at and what is the dance style? We plotted the opportunities on maps with a visual representation and we had case studies talking to professional dancers talking about what helped them or may have helped them. We created a document that outlined existing barriers and recommendations to overcome them. We have pictured on the screen the current state of play in terms of provision. It looks busy at first look but there are notable gaps. For example, we can see in the North West and Yorkshire and Humberside there isn't so much going on. A lot of the provision was recreational. It may be project based and drop in and drop out classes. Just to zoom in, this is the South West. We thought about, we are talking about large geographical regions. If a young person wants to take advantage of opportunities in Gloucester and Plymouth we are talking about 100 miles. We noticed that in the South East region in particular, there is a lot of dance provision for people with learning disabilities but not physical disabilities. So there seems to be some sort of exclusion. Can you hear me? I think we are probably aware of the existing barriers for those trying to get into the dance profession. I won't talk through them all. I will focus on a few training related barriers we picked up on from the scoping and some practical recommendations to overcome the barriers. The big Page | 64
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
one - the lack of high level training. What can we do about it? As we heard earlier, training needs to start at a younger age. That is clear. Its also possible that we may need specialised training for dancers with disabilities. Though we are for integration, for people who didn't have access to training from a young age, this may be helpful. It will be a learning opportunity for teachers and students so a two way sort of thing. We have talked about needing to establish more networks, a national and local network. A lot of people know who else is out there but there were examples of great provision operating in isolation. We can't expect one group or organisation to provide pathways on their own. We may have to link up with community groups, private studies and colleges and universities - shadowing and outreach work to establish local networks. We thought about a contentious issue - qualifications. A piece of paper saying we can dance may work. If we are trying to provide a level playing field we may have to think about this. if we have people applying for a college course, those qualifications are evidence that a young dancer has key qualifications.
Something else we noticed from the scoping strand was lack of knowledge. There were reports that even when provision was available there was low uptake. We must ensure we have enough young people to fill the places. Something we noticed doing the internet search there is inconsistency in the way information is presented. In some cases it was very clear where we provided the information. Other websites it was difficult to find even in simple internet searches. We also thought that it may be helpful to have clearer information about what the provision is. Some websites had times and dates but didn't say who the course was aimed at. Make things clear so young people can make an informed choice. That is a small snapshot of the research. There is lots more so have a chat if you are interested. In cash strapped times building networks is very important and hopefully today we can do that. We will focus on identification of gifted and talented dancers and how we train them. Hopefully Cats can become even more inclusive. We are going to do CPD with them later in the year to provide pathways Page | 65
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
into the profession. Check our website for more information and the National Dance website too.
NEW SPEAKER: We kind of covered some of the same issues that Adam brought up, the biggest one about networking, the need for networks and the need to let the networks join the dots, what the maps was doing, was exposing the gaps and the networks can help to join the dots and as well as a geographical map, we can see 150 miles between Gloucester and Plymouth or whatever it is. Joining the dots between what seems like a lot of informal activities, community work and then trying to get that into the professional training and then that joining up into the kind of career professional experience so, I think people expressing difficulties in bridging those areas. One of the things which came up, one comment that I heard was, what that network would help to do is make companies aware of the disabled artists that are out there and that let disabled artists know of the students in companies, because sometimes the. We discussed the notion of excellence, there was a real an to challenge the received notion of excellence as Jenny articulated it this morning, I think Maggie said it was a complex and difficult area to address but, that there needs to be some kind of forum to address and debate what we understand by excellence, to kind of shatter the received oppressive notion of what we define excellence as. It kind of led on to a discussion about forms of positive discrimination about providing platforms of disabled artists to take on positions where they can be role models for aspiring artists to help redefine the notion of excellence and is. NEW SPEAKER: Around creative partnerships and you know, artists working to the organisations working to the and Adam was talking about two web sites working together. We are a lot of people in the room here and we are a network, we now become the next network and we can work together. You all know each other in different ways, so that is the beginning of kind of working together. There is a question around does this always has to be funding; it is difficult to find Page | 66
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
funding for the partnerships. We understand that. That was something that was put in the air, it is a question around whether it is the responsibility of big organisations to provide the partnerships or whether can also happen with the individuals, is it their responsibilities to do that as well. None of these were answers, but big posed questions; there is a question from the audience to that. NEW SPEAKER: Very encouraged by you saying we are now a network, it is difficult for us to keep in contact we don't even have e mail addresses or contact lists in the conference programme. NEW SPEAKER: Am I right in thinking that the delegate packs, there is a pile of delegate sheets of delegates outside on reception that does have the e mail addresses for everyone who has attended. NEW SPEAKER: I apologise. NEW SPEAKER: James: following on that from, our final point picks up on what you said. Actually before that, somebody said that if you combine all the, think of all the combined energy, vision, passion commitment of everyone in this room, it adds to a considerable body and energy and that is something that should be harnessed. Taking your point on board, there was an action point that came out of one of the smaller groups, we need to create group or a network or a combination of the two as a result of this conference. That one suggestion which kind of works within Scotland there is something called the drama training network about to become the dance and training network. That this could be the start of a group to address these issues, to continue exploring them, if we are serious about making the changes, that could be a practical suggestion, we do have a network and exchange. That was our group, I will hand the microphone over to others. NEW SPEAKER: Helen, from G. dance in Gloucestershire, we had a number of conversations last year of a number of these gatherings about the need for some kind of pulling together and we discussed the idea of a steering group that might work towards some kind of collective strategic vision. However that might define and just to say that we have a small amount of money from the Arts Council to help coordinate that. So that is not an ownership role in terms of us it is just about we have some small amount of money and some coordination expertise to try and pull that together. It seems an opportune moment to put that forward. Page | 67
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
NEW SPEAKER: James: one comment at the back.
George lamb: about why we have networks and so on. Make need to be I do apologise, but some of what you are seeing or what has been said is replicating exactly the language that happens in other fields and further education and in all fields and employment and we have to be really careful with what we are doing is always, why we are setting up the networks, the language is fine, but why? What for? To do what to whom? Let's remember that the point of symposium is to open up the path ways not to create networks. NEW SPEAKER: James: thank you, I think that is it. LUKE PELL: Thank you, dawn's sorry. Thank you. NEW SPEAKER: Dawn: in true community theatre style I have got about 30 flip charts. So Luke tasked us with coming up with a top 3. If any of the yellow group would like to put their hands up and talk further that would be great. The top 3 we came up with was awareness, collaboration and passion. Awareness is just making sure that young people have access to the arts as part of their curriculum. This is a general comment and this is obviously a national conference so, this is just a general comment on just ensuring that, people with disabilities are aware that you know, there are opportunities within youth theatres, within choirs, within dance and school is actually a brilliant way of raising that awareness and experiencing those art forms. The second collaboration is a really a lot of what we have spoken about and seen here today, professional practice, opening up the possibilities of how we work, so dealing with things like barriers but seeing them as opportunities to work in a new way. Dialogue with parents, educators, other arts organisations, networks, you know, the example of DYT about that event with DYT where young people are able to meet and socialise and have dialogue about the art form and experience what other work is out there. Page | 68
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
And the third thing was passion. Really that comes down to artistic integrity and why any of us want to make art in the first place. It felt that was a positive way of thinking, yes, can we get on with it really? Are there any hands up from my group? Can I check? Dawn. NEW SPEAKER: It is just like a Mexican wave. Thanks very much. LUKE PELL: Thank you, two microphones. So the last group I would like to go to was Joanne's group and it seems to, that we have come up with some points and directions where we might go and the thing we are looking at, who do we need to tell, who needs to have the information and who do we need to speak about this? NEW SPEAKER: And the winner is
no.
Ok, you guys asked me to focus on 3 main issues. One was grass roots, enabling education and training at a very young age seemed to us critical to open the path ways. So who needs to know about this? Who has the power to change this? It seemed to us it is something actually about the highest level of policy makers. So it seems that it is the governmental department education department that needs to know about this. So how do they need to know about this? Well one tool I think is Jenny this morning we saw very powerful example when we saw the demonstration with the actors. Seems one tool we can use. We have to make them come and see these performances and this work that we are doing. The other way is through lobbying groups and lobbying individuals that at the high level can actually lobby for dance and equality. Then the second subject that oh, yes, just to clarify that. There seems to be I will come back to it later there seems to be a need for strong leaders and charismatic leaders that can actually lobby for equality and dance and theatre. Page | 69
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
So that is something that I put up there, maybe there are some of these people might be sitting here. That is one thing; the other thing was with lobbying groups, dance UK or similar groups. So, issue number 2 which we have already had, the feeling of working in isolation, what can we do to work more effectively and coordinated. We discussed the creation of new web sites for instance. Weren't entirely sure if that is the solution or if it would be something like making more inclusive the networks that are already there so, that is the question. So maybe those networks need to know. So, to build structures that support access and also to make sure that those structures embody inclusivity. It seems that we need again leadership at the top that is actually decided and really goes for it. So, if it seems that if the leaders of organisations are very different levels to actually go for it, actually embed those criteria, this will kind of ripple through. The final subject we had was, there seems to be a hunger for a body of knowledge and research, a need for more, for more body of knowledge and research. It seemed, why? Well it gives an accurate perspective of things, which as artists we somehow tend to neglect and it might be a very empowering tool to advocate and lobby, we need a strong voice and something to back up our arguments. So it seems like we need some of that. We tried to figure out, well who needs to lack of mantra of opportunities. Seems more the case that we are somehow at the start in the infancy of these type of research, so I guess it is an encouragement to us. LUKE PELL: Panel, is that do you feel that is a good place to park the afternoon? Imogen. IMOGEN WALKER: Thank you, I do think that more research is really important and that is something that we talked about in our group, having that evidence base that knowledge base but something else that we talked about was that in a way it still needs to go hand in hand with having these important people see the Page | 70
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
work, not just reading about it and what they can do. They can see it with their own eyes and sometimes that is as powerful. I still think we need a bit of both. CAROLINE: I wanted to say, reiterate what people were saying about just making things happen and just getting on with it and having that positive attitude of we will make it work somehow, that is the only reason our project happened in the end. We just went; we will sort it out and make it happen. It is a small thing but it is that ripple effect of greater things can come from that and in our discussion group Maggie Kinloch mentioned that the time is now, let's stop faffing and make stuff happen. [applause] LUKE PELL: Great. So, we are going draw this to a close, I think the action of the individual is a brilliant thing, seen lots of examples today of the input of the individual, I am not underestimating our if I make a request, we each go away with an action we can take to take it forward. Maybe we get on with that action and if we have that map, this map it might help us out on the journey, that journey I like what Jurg said about complexity. There will always be complexity. There are complex, diverse real range of people working in the sector and accept it. We can get on with that and move it forward. Speaking of moving things forward, I will pass on to Mat Fraser. MAT FRASER: Thank you Luke, thanks panel and people. Ok. So, I have been writing down stuff that I have been absorbing through for the afternoon and all I can do is just read out stuff and then comment on it very quickly. So, lots of people saying similar things, when I heard something that was said again I just underlined it. Overwhelmingly, the most thing that people said was that the collecting and the connecting of information and alliance for dance and disability, disabled people, rightly pointed out. We do have a modern technology, that will keep the connecting and collecting and we should utilise the technology. Somebody suggested setting up a new web site, which seemed to go on line with that. Joining the dots, training can't be seasonal, the career maps are very useful, inspiring. It is a model that we can you know, a lot of people can use. Let go of Page | 71
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
the past, I think that is a big one for those of us been around the block more than once or twice. Moaning can be an addiction. It is nice and comfortable to feel oppressed. But let's just move the hell on from that. We do start now. Challenge excellence, that does indeed need debate. Whilst the heteronormative paradigms do oppress us sometimes it is shit and it needs to be cool shit. Somebody had to say that, if it is my work, please tell me. Maybe we could start a dance and drama network. Creative partnerships, that was talked about a lot and then the chap at the back who, I don't know his name. To what end? Perhaps if the title of the creative partnership espouses of what the end in sight means, that would be a help for such partnerships. A passion and awareness and clearly the arts don't happen unless people are passionate about that, which they wish to communicate to people. What, who do we tell? So, we all agree, education, grass roots, ground up, that is where education is happening, the education level of what we are trying to do, the social change we want to make. It is critical to opening the path ways. But without the top level government policy makers seeing the work, you have, describing the work is not as powerful as experiencing the work, we know that. Strong leaders are needed to lobby. Perhaps if some of the strong leaders make a work and invite the other powerful people to see the work, they in turn can become champions of the work. There is nothing like being moved by a piece of art, to make you want to be part of what you are trying to do. There is a hunger for a body of research, a data base, a web site, connecting, technology, these are the things that have come oaf and over again and seemed to me, are you allowed to say no brainer anymore. Seems to me obvious of a way of going forward in that kind of thing. I am reminded, I once asked Kinloch who I am a big admirer of, how does this cripples get what we need. He said, he said it is not until the disenfranchised take control of the means of production that anything will change and just so you Page | 72
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
know, the people that have the control of the means of production, won't want to give it up without a fight. We need to be reminded of that. Then unlimited, it is 2012 the fact we have got 15 new productions of disability arts, I know it is not all strictly dance I know. If those 15 productions come and go without highlighting what we spoken about we have missed probably the biggest opportunity in the last 25 years. So come on, whoever is doing these pieces, can we have a bit of what we are saying here and what we need and what we want shown because those top level people will have to watch it this year because it is their job. They have to be there and you know, we might inspire them and then we might effect that change and they might want to be champions and lobbyists and things like that. That is really I think what the afternoon, from my perspective that was what the overriding sense was, that we need to move on, collectivise and connectivise using technology. That is a good way forward and that we need to get the hell on and do it and make the work come hell and high water and hope the work is strong and aspiring and attract people to it. When people go, I am working, you say, ring them back, take the day off work, don't take no as an answer. I have bashed down doors to get my work, you pay a price for that, you end up doing the work. Graeae didn't want to give me an audition back in the day. I said, you have to. I know you don't think I can act, I am asking for the opportunity to say I can. I bullied my way in and my whole life changed after that. We need to do that with people who don't want to come and see the shows and Well done for a fantastic first day conference. Thanks to all the panellists and thank you Luke and all the breakout sessions and all the people who have helped and Caroline and everybody, it has been an awesome first day. If you have got any strength left, my flippers can hardly take it anymore. We can give ourselves a round of applause [applause] then I can say [taking a bow], I am addicted to applause, and I hadn't had any for a while, I thought I would steal that bit. We are 4 minutes early, now we will be doing networking in the Longforgan bar next door, Sally, awesome musician, singer pianist is going to be performing. Page | 73
[This transcript was provided as communication support for deaf and hard of hearing people. It should not be regarded as a fully checked and verified verbatim record; it has no legal standing.]
Creator Scotland FO's are asked if they might stay and they are going to have like a mini meeting that says closed here, but it is far from closed. But I would personally rather go to the bar and listen to Sally. Thank you very much. We will see you later at the theatre. [applause]
Page | 74