69: For Everybody And Every Body

METAL Nº38, Autumn/Winter 2017

A single letter along with a punctuation mark and two digits is all there is to the email signature of the

growing

sender: 69, No more, no less. The reply to my earlier enquiry, albeit positive, is just as brief.

Yes, we can do an interview and yes, one of the dates I had suggested suited them well. Fast forward

for

the

clothing

line

researching

them

collection, by

that

has not been an easy task. A

–

if

you're

lucky.

And

yet,

69 seems all over the place: there

are

collaborations

with the art world here and

a growing celebrity following

there. Among them are Rihanna, Chloë Sevigny and Erykah Badu

to name but a few. Still, 69 remains

a

brand

is

shy

without

a

face and although its founder not

opinions, behind

to

they

a

veil

voice

–

do

or

their

so

from

a

black

screen. Hence, I will refer to the creative mind behind the line simply as ‘A.’.

But

why

all

this

secrecy? In the 21st century, fashion

heavily

relies

on

having faces. Labels everywhere are

digits

spending to

designers

and

handwriting products.

seven-figure

acquire

No

all

prominent

have

their

over

less

their

money

is

spent on engaging individuals through of

an

models

standard

of

exclusive

circle

determining beauty.

the

They

strut down runways lined with Hollywood’s shot

by

iconic

the

A-list

and

industry’s

photographers.

perpetuating

message

is

are

most

The

that

this enviable world belongs to

p. 50

taking

Every

clothes,

designed

consumer to live in. The good

of shoes or even a fragrance, shoppers can call a tiny part of

this

world

their

own.

As

him

or

the brand quite literally has its

label

placed

on

her, the customer consequently becomes one of its many faces.

Consumption liation. is

facilitates

But

not.

No

symbiosis

number

of

affi–

this

suits

and dresses is ever likely to elevate one’s life to the level of

glamour

so

inexhaustibly

portrayed through advertising.

This sphere of perfection is, of course, an illusion whose surface

scratched

can

only

–

if

even

ever

be

touched

at all. To put it more simply: these

brands

are

not

for

customers to own; they are for them to desire.

“It

is

Then

there

everybody,”

is

A.

69.

tells

me without hesitation when I enquire about the face of their

brand. It cannot, therefore, be any one person, including the

founder and designer. Footage of

their

Autumn/Winter

presentation Fashion

during

Week

New

2016

York

demonstrates

just how seriously they take

this creed: real people, not models,

are

the

showcasing

their

be

or

to

identities

centre

detail,

marketing

Words by Steffen Michels

news? By buying a shirt, a pair

interview

masks

obscuring

individual

from

and

occasional

cleverly

their

a select few. It is not for the

the

denim

wearers’ faces and preventing

Google search brings up a few mentions in fashion magazines

accompanied

fringed

so

founded in 2011. So highly, in fact,

wearing

skirts

through

defining

Anonymity ranks highly on the

and

time,

the

and

streets

have borne even more fruit. A

me to assume. I cannot but laugh in response. This is when we click.

69

2013

same

traditions of gender seems to

greeted by a black screen. “Oh, I am not using it,” they reply, chuckling as if it had been absurd of

For Everybody and Every Body

in

movement away from what were

well be in different galaxies. “I think there is something wrong with your video,” I announce, upon being

priorities

of

the

of Manhattan. Remarkably, this

in cyberspace. With a time difference of nine hours and the Atlantic Ocean between us, we might as

of

love

dresses

other side's answer to my video call. The founder of Los Angeles – based lifestyle brand 69 and I meet

Californian

around

caught our attention with his

two and a half weeks and my eyes are glued to a computer screen as I am patiently awaiting the

list

market

who,

in

is

suit

stage.

it

the

in

the

actual

purposefully just

about

anyone potentially interested in

the

products.

Shirts

and

trousers are tailored to fit people

regardless

physique.

A

of

main

their

criterion

for all fabrics used is how comfortable they would be to wear

and

how

much

movement

they would allow for people of different builds and genders.

Despite terms

their

such

dislike

as

for

‘unisex’

and

‘non-gendered’, A.’s creations are neither designed for nor marketed

towards

a

specific

sex. Anything can be worn by

anyone. No matter what gender

one identifies with, everyone falls

into

‘anyone’.

the

69

is

category thus

of

the

tangent to contemporary dis– cussion: the on-going blurring of male and female.

And

this

blurring

of

lines is mirrored in the way

we consume. In 2016 when cult

US cosmetics brand, CoverGirl, introduced CoverBoy,

the

then

first

ever

17-year-old

James Charles, it seemed makeup was no longer just a female

affair. Appointing the social media

star

momentous for

years

houses

was

step, by

considered

major

launching

a

foreshadowed fashion

men’s

make-

up lines. One pioneer of this trend was Marc Jacobs, whose eponymous

brand

entered

the

sartorial

change

of

letters next to her feminine figure. an

movie

receive

story

often

more

covered,

made-up

style.

revealing

clothing to a more discreet, and

perhaps most critically a less From

normcore

and minimalism to streetwear, female

fashion

in

the

2010’s

has been less about dressing up

and

dressing. to

more

Women

embrace

trend.

about

simply

have

the

started

‘no

make-up’

Interestingly,

development

has

in-hand

with

men

women

this

gone

hand-

significant

breakthroughs for transgender and

world.

Under

across

Barack

the

Obama’s

presidency, the trans community enjoyed

never-before-seen

recognition

in

the

United

States of America. Despite the country’s

reversing its

current the

former

transgender universally attention

government

progress

of

administration, rights

receiving

than

ever

are

more

before.

Transgender individuals are not only serving in the militaries

of more and more countries, but are given the option of a third gender

in

government-issued

documents by countries ranging from

Australia

and

Germany

to, perhaps more surprisingly, India,

Nepal,

Bangladesh. the is to

Pakistan

entertainment

increasingly transgender

narratives.

and

Simultaneously, industry

opening

talent

Award-winning

up

and ac–

tress Laverne Cox of popular

Netflix show Orange Is the New

Black graced the cover of Time

Magazine in 2014, illustrating the issue’s central theme, The Transgender which

Tipping

appeared

in

Point,

capital

the

reassignment

Tom

Hooper’s

The

Danish Girl marked one of the

and

from

in

around

gender

surgery.

racy

movement

theatres

who was amongst the first to

tight,

the

year,

millions

Elbe, the 1930s Danish painter

most

been

following

of

globe was introduced to Lili

the decade in women’s fashion has

The

audience

date by

elaborate

to

an

to

bring the

endeavours

a

to

transgender

masses,

estimated

backed

budget

of

$15 million and an ambitious Hollywood

cast.

Of

course,

the fashion industry has long picked up on this trend, with

the likes of models Lea T, Hari Nef and Andreja Pejić starring

as the faces of Gucci, Givenchy et al.

Yet

one

would

be

a

fool to believe this newfound inclusiveness is not in one way or another rooted in financial motives. As a result, no one

can guarantee its permanence.

69, in contrast, views people

from a different angle. There is

one

nothing to

to

prove

impress.

and

no

Inclusion

comes naturally and their nondemographic approach to design just

so

happens

to

be

shot

against the backdrop of gender fluidity by coincidence. There can be no doubt that if the

label had launched ten years

earlier, it would have been seen as

considerably

than

it

is

more

now.

radical

Certainly,

there is the advantage of its

thematic overlap with current affairs: 69’s democratic ways are in

relevant,

theory

–

seminal

very

and

–

sellable.

But setting the rhythm comes at a price. Talking to A., it becomes

apparent

that

they

would neither like to see their

brand’s message oversimplified by

the

identity,

question nor

of

would

sexual they

want to risk contributing to the

trivialisation

of

social

justice issues for anyone who does grey and

find

area

themselves between

womanhood.

places

great

in

the

manhood

Therefore,

importance

69

on

having

a

sensitivity

to

all

kinds of groups stigmatised by societal

prejudices.

Perhaps

their most notable effort in

this regard is their outspoken embrace

of

older

customers.

Ageism, A. passionately assures me, is a ‘huge topic’ to them.

I get the feeling it might be the biggest one.

69

is

not

a

charity.

They are not in the streets,

campaigning for liberal values nor

are

they

making

clothes

to change the world. They are making them out of necessity.

When the label started off as a response to a magazine feature

exploring the global, unifying presence

of

denim,

it

was

born with the idea to produce

clothes for a new generation: one

that

is

overcoming

stereotypes and collaborating in

ways

previously

imaginable.

This

un–

group

of

people is not bound together by by

sex,

any

race,

other

phenomena; their and

it

access

their

influence

religion,

is

to

united

ability

made

through

the

Internet

and

nor

superficial in

information to

possible

wield

only

technological

revolutions of the ubiquitous social

media.

In the truest sense, it's the first age,

term

generation

hence

to

redefining

‘generation’

Naturally,

individuals

this

must

elude

the

itself.

group

require

of a

uniform representative of its unique status. And since it's

so diverse, what could be more

fitting than something that is barely fitted at all?

By being entirely non-

demographic,

69

is

possibly

the label best suited to dress

p. 51

69

For Everybody and Every Body

this

intrinsically

generation.

diverse

Their

products

enable members of society to

driven world?

to

make

dressed

A:

to stand out from it. Or in

quantities of things. So much

A:

to

with

by

allowing

them

not

other words: they are allowing consumers to be anonymous in a

world obsessed with faces. It almost seems a shame that, as A.

tells

me,

their

dream

is

to retire around 40 and open a

farm sanctuary somewhere in the countryside. the

Frankly,

next

frontier

to

other

species.

An

though, tackle

could easily be the inclusion of

animal

shelter full of pigs, cows and chickens decked in 69 clothing could

be

the

first

step

towards a truly global uniform inclusive of everyone. In fact,

dogs already get to wear the brand – that should do for now.

Steffen change

Michels:

is

at

The

the

idea

of

very

core

at

once

of what we understand fashion to

be.

Trends

responsive, paced

and

are

consumable,

ultimately

fast-

born

to

die. You have been clear in the past that you are not designing fashion but simply clothes. Why is that?

A: From the beginning, I was going at my own pace and did

what I felt comfortable doing.

Nothing

that

I

designed

For

sure.

We

have

always

had an issue with making mass so, that the brand is trying step

away

from

wholesale

for the most part. The whole

process is very draining and excessive.

There

quantities

of

risk

factor

in

is

such

a

and

it

making

things

large

kind of devalues the products.

And then of course, we don't make

profit

because

on

of

wholesale

the

cost

of

materials and labour. We don't use sweatshops; we work with a local factory in LA. People

don't realise that but that's why it's really hard to profit from wholesale.

SM:

By

you're exact

staying

anonymous,

actually

opposite

designers

are

of

doing what

doing

the

most

these

days. Whether it's appearing on television or with a celebrity

wearing their clothes to the Met

Gala,

equals

the

the

creative

image

equals

mind

the

brand. What is the identity of

pieces. How does that fit in

I don't pay attention to what's

going on in terms of what to do

using the 69 logo on certain with the concept of anonymity?

next, you know? Therefore, our

A: Well, the logo is just a

out as fashion. Because to me,

do that. It's my brand. It's my

brand

is

automatically

ruled

fashion is trends and we are not about trends.

SM: as

I

we

find

know

increasingly People

are

realities

it

that is

waking

of

what

fashion

becoming

out-dated.

up

it

to

the

means

to be a throwaway society. In a

sense,

this

movement

is

a

symbol. And I kind of have to

business. Otherwise, it's just

some random piece of clothing.

Personally,

I

really

love

the logo. It's a part of me, without being me. It's my star

sign – which is neither here

nor there – but because it's a

symbol, it could mean whatever you want it to mean.

return to the values of former

SM: Comfort is an established

quantity.

clothes we wear. How important

generations; sustain

a

to

quality

brand

like

Is

it

not

over

hard

to

yours

trait

we

look

for

in

the

is it for a piece of clothing

I

than

think

or

dressed

it's

very

The

best-dressed

people

are

that I see, I still don't even

that clothes are really just

say that every year! I have no

the ones who, in a way, know clothes.

Style

different place.

comes

from

a

A: Yes, totally. I think if I

say

to me, I would go with my first

I

what

you

about

wear.

90%

believe

of

I

would

the

feeling

time.

happy

is

important to a lot of people in any situation. That is what

is so good about this brand.

Everything

is

comfortable

and

transitional.

pretty

You

much

can

feel

confident

in

it either at home or if you

had to define what style means

instinct. And that is confidence.

Designing

that

makes

feel

confident.

about that

people

themselves,

true

something

feel

good

makes

But

I

confidence

them

think

comes

from a deeper place.

switch it up a little with a

SM: Definitely. I also believe

the town. You can go to a fancy

permanent.

nice shoe, you can go out on event or dinner. Everything is very transitional.

SM: Which makes me think that having fun in your clothes is really important as well.

confidence is not necessarily It's

something

we

put on in a sense. That doesn't make

it

any

less

real

but

how present it is depends on

the situation you are in. You might have an idea of yourself and feel confident in it, but

SM: Do you have fun producing

And to become more confident

a

with

of

York a

season

we

age

so

that we don't falter so easily.

some

base for 69, with a reputation

by

celebrity

during

Week;

New

meanwhile

earlier,

with

as

become

conflicts.

SM: LA seems a confident city.

recurring

you

used

regular people covering their faces

ourselves

to

Your

hilarious

Fashion

our

brand.

a

your

impersonators

with

is

with

fun

modelled

pretty

job

because

Spring/Summer 2017 collection was

Our

stronger

bit

fringed

denim

masks. They boogied to disco

is

(laughs).

I

idea what it is.

SM: I think it might have less to do with there being a lack of

talent and more with the fact that there are other capital

cities much longer-established in

fashion.

Everything

just

tends to happen in four cities and

that

is

it.

There's

a

of choice because it's relata-

and obviously there is a lot of

denim is a material that makes

fashion week in Berlin as well talent coming out of the city, and the clothes designed there

look very different from what you would see anywhere else.

Yet, Berlin Fashion Week does

not attract a lot of interest and

the

big

industry

names

don't show up. Maybe there just isn't enough space for cities like Berlin and Los Angeles.

this applies to a lot of the

A: Oh yes.

seems

it

can vanish into thin air.

A:

asking

what

A: That in a society obsessed

it?

I'm

know

as soon as you enter unknown or uncomfortable territory, it

A: It is.

theme

and it has continued that way.

happy

important to feel comfortable

A: It is everybody. It is the

SM: And yet, you are not shy in

informed by fashion or trends

Oh,

SM:

was

feel

rather

up?

69 if it's not yours?

69 customer, whoever that is.

you

true to yourself, like you are

associate themselves with the group

p. 52

in what is now a consumption-

It also strikes me as a logical for

laid

rather

hometown with

back

than

does

street

couture. not

fashion

the

style Your

associate

way

Paris

and Milan do. Is this why you produce there?

a thing really is beyond me.

This is the celebrity capital of a

the

world,

magical

and

place

on

it's

such

so

many

levels. But as far as making content

and

imaginary

worlds

and such, you would think it would

be

such

a

gateway

for

the fashion industry to have

fun with. In fact, just saying that inspires me to reach out to

LA

Fashion

Week

and

ask

them to let me do something really cool and try and switch things up.

to another city, I would move

in and do something different.

to me you look to be creative in

the

way

themes

like

you

comment

identity

on

and

anonymity. It's not just about these

notions;

playing with them.

it's

about

SM: I tend to think you have have

when

it

a

sense

comes

to

industry in LA has got some work to do. I mean there are tons of brands here and it's not

as

cool.

if

But

Los

Angeles

fashion

week

isn't here

seems to be in the dark ages,

A: Yes, absolutely.

to

69 to that city. The fashion

of

humour

fashion.

Perhaps

that

is

exactly

what they need: someone to step

Let's not try and imitate other places but do our own thing instead.

A: Okay, I will reach out to them! (laughs).

for whatever reason. I really

SM: It would not be the first

Fashion

thing. For example, the way you

don't understand. We have LA York

Week,

Fashion

just

Week.

like But

New

just

from the logo to the events

because

it's

torn, studded, dyed and bedazzled a million times over. By

bringing it back to its unpretentious

roots,

however,

you

are actually using it in the most radical way possible.

A: Yes.

been around for ages whereas

any item suits anyone. It seems

because I live here. If I moved

democratic

universal. Yet, jeans have been

world – LA Fashion Week is not

SM:

exchanged

and

SM:

A: I produce everything here

and

effectively demonstrating how

sense. It is durable, versatile

with celebrity – and I think

clothes,

music

ble and just honest. In a way,

time

you've

innovated

some-

use denim is highly original. I

have a feeling it's your fabric

Denim

is,

to

an

extent,

so incredible in that it has

in contrast, designers around the

world

are

cutting-edge

by

trying

to

creating

be

new

fabrics. For instance, a lot is

being done to replace animalderived

materials.

There

now

companies

making

and

mushrooms.

But

not

even

are

vegan

leathers from pineapple leaves you

are

returning to denim and you're making

it

special,

you're just making it good.

A: I mean, I work with what is

available to me and with what

I can afford. For instance, my fault is that I don't use eco-

conscious fabrics or recycled denim

which

cost.

And

do

but

it's

we

embellishing but

honestly

I

would

all

have

with the

love

because done

our

thing

to

of

some

denim that

limits us the most is funding.

It's money. That is why a lot of our stuff is very simple,

but it suits us. We are pretty simple be

we

but

more

would

we

would

like

eco-conscious

like

to

do

to

and

crazier

things. But we are limited.

p. 53

69

For Everybody and Every Body

SM: That's interesting because

bites me in the ass. That is

A: I would not say that I have

A:

an

know? Because you can target

them.

we as a society are quite at

I didn't realise you had such interest

in

finding

more

eco-friendly options, which of course is commendable.

A:

Yes,

we

are

very

eco-

conscious. As much as we can be. But it is difficult.

SM:

And

what

about

other

fabrics? What are the criteria on the materials you use?

A:

I

fibres

prefer but

I

to

am

use

not

natural closed

off to the idea of using more

tech-fabrics. We use linen and cotton,

mostly.

But

I

would

love to use some mushrooms and pineapple leaves! (laughs).

SM: I initially thought relying mostly on one fabric was a

demographics

that

one

customer

you

and

then

to you. I understand how that works

for

certain

clothing

lines but for mine, it doesn't at

all.

brand

This

and

is

it's

a

lifestyle

meant

to

be

worn by anyone and everyone.

When people interact with it, it's so easy to see how wide

it is because the clothes look good on everybody. It doesn't matter what your body type is.

Certain things look better on certain

people

something

but

for

there

everyone

is

with

this brand. As far as who the

Interestingly,

that

is

slightly older than what I was

A: I mean our fans are all over

non-demographic label, who is

twenty

As

far

as

denim

goes,

it

seems like one season it's all about

denim,

going

to

and

there

is

a

cycle to that. Denim is always never

be

going

around.

to

be

There's

a

moment

when it's not around but there are some seasons where it's a statement. A thing. A trend.

SM:

So

are

appealing

your

who

is

clothes?

it

that

Obviously,

to

the

buys

you

widest

the place. We have people from to

fifty

but

anyone

under thirty seems to have a hard

time

buying

stuff.

And

it really does depend on the stores that carry the brand and

who they are pushing it to, and a lot of the stores actually

push it to this slightly older, professional woman.

SM: The reason being that this is

where

the

sure.

money

is,

I'm

A: Exactly!

point of the brand. But are you

as

the

whole

able to identify your typical

customer who just so happens to be attracted to the label?

A: I do have an understanding

of who they are, yes. And I try and

broaden

that

demographic

as much as I can by for example having

sales

more

frequently

and making it more attainable, money-wise. being

Let

me

tell

non-demographic

you,

totally

because

like

they're

buzzwords. They just seem kind of trendy to me. And I made up my own term and I really appreciate so

thank

research Because

it

you

and

it's

when

it's

for

doing

honouring

not

just

used

your

that.

about

what sex you are or what race you

are.

That

is

what

the

whole non-demographic thing is

about, you know? It's not even about what species you are.

SM: Have you had a crocodile walk into the store?

that

you

unisex

dislike and

terms

such

non-gendered

as they make a point of the

perceived binary of male and female part

which

of

the

simply

is

not

equation

when

you design clothes. As a man who owns both a skirt and a

dress, however, I am curious to

hear

whether

as

male

and

you

have

a

lot of customers who identify traditionally females.

in the store but lots of dogs I

mean

we

are

design-

ing clothes for kids, for dogs

and really pushing the notion of non-demographic. And also, we make home accessories and fragrances. It's not something

boring like unisex or genderless.

Those

dull to me.

words

are

really

SM: Relating to this, there has

been a lot of progress in recent ple

more

years

to

in

getting

comprehend

complex

peo-

gender

than

what

as

they

might have previously thought.

Transgender

rights

became

a

major topic when Barack Obama included

the

trans

community

in his 2015 State of the Union speech;

the

very

first

time

acknowledged in this context.

SM: You have said in the past

is

words

don't

their existence was ever even

possible market because being non-demographic

just

have.

trend when you're trying to do

A:

I

in their forties.

would say they are female and

expecting.

your average customer?

those

And

A: Crocodiles are not allowed

many. The real danger, I im-

the opposite. As a specifically

a lot of them but I do have

most consistent customer is, I

SM:

agine, is being perceived as on

work,

they are going to keep coming

limitation but then I realised it makes 69 a go-to brand for

p. 54

why

purchase

items

attributed

to

Inclusion, it appears, is a requirement for anonymity. If you stand out, you are never going

to blend in. In that sense, a label like yours makes a valuable contribution that goes far beyond making products.

A: Well, thanks! I believe that as well.

SM: Would you say 69 is less

a reaction to societal change than

it

is

a

foreshadowing

of the society we have yet to become?

I

think

of

it

foreshadowing. the

stage

at

I

more

as

don't

which

a

think

my

brand

open

a

fashion

magazine

and

they still sell you the idea of a world far beyond your reach.

is. That is a good and a bad

A: Yes, it's literally comical.

thing because we are ahead of

how that's still happening. But

thing the

(laughs).

curve

It's

and

that

a

good

means

we

will never be irrelevant. We will

never

go

out

of

style.

But it's a bad thing because not everyone is ready for it.

It's about money at that point.

If we were really on trend and relevant, we would be making more profit far

as

money

(laughs). And as goes,

it's

not

about me wanting to be rich, but to

just

do

more

about

being

with

it.

able

Because

what we have done so far is not

even

a

fraction

of

what

I have planned. And it's this way because we are limited to

what we can do. So I'm trying to find a sweet spot where we

can appeal to the fashion of

it all, if that makes sense, because

I'm

really

trying

to be honest and modest with everything.

But

I

personally

It's really weird. I have no clue I wonder when that transition

SM:

And

partly

I

believe

because

the

that

is

fashion

sphere is not quite ready for

radical brands like yours. I

said earlier that fashion as we know it is a little out-dated and I think that is true in

Yesterday Elle

I

was

magazine

and

luxury

looking the

at

Gucci

ad, I think it was a perfume, had Hari Nef in it. But still, Hari

Nef

right?

was

She

a

Tumblr

was

star,

definitely

a

social media darling who came

out really quickly because of

the transgender movement. But now she has become this almost unattainable

celebrity.

So

I

feel like right now anyone can be

a

celebrity

but

they

are

kept at that level rather than taken to the higher tier. Does that make sense?

SM:

I'm

elaborate?

not

sure.

Can

you

people advertise your product to the masses as an attainable

thing rather than an unattainable one, a luxury idea.

SM:

But

herself

Hari

become

establishment.

Nef

part

of

has

the

A: Yes, she is no longer one of us! (laughs).

SM: She is not struggling.

exclusive.

how

A: No, she is not struggling

Anyone

I think. She just got scooped

That

is

not

our world generally seems to work

anymore,

though.

can do anything – in theory.

In an instant, the knowledge of

the

computer

world

unfolds

screens

and

on

we

our

are

all interconnected. Previously

unknown people become YouTube and

Instagram

sensations,

influencing a whole generation whilst

raking

in

big

money.

Real power is now accessible

by practically anyone, yet you

this

idea

for

of

‘I would love for that to be

my life’. It makes people want something more than what they

have, not being happy with what they have.

readers

and

airbrushed

of

plus-size

Coining in if

celebrities

and

one it

really doesn't matter where she started from. But my point is

it would be so cool if these bigger brands would just start using

regular

people

for

their ads. This is what I do.

It's what I really push for.

And

it's

important

specific

itself

is

seems

term

for

discriminatory,

dangerous.

69’s

loose

cuts and light fabrics allow for

any

body

shape

to

feel

just right the way it is. What has been the general response from

customers

towards

inclusivity?

A:

do

We

are

have

Everyone our

a

this

brand

cult

that

this

brand.

cult

We

following.

is

a

actually

fan

loves

of

it.

And I am not saying that with

any ego. It's just that when I

interact

with

customers,

the joy that's in their faces when they shop with us, when

they try stuff on, they talk about the item they have had forever and always wear. People

talk about us with such joy.

It's very real. And I've never

ever heard anyone talk about any other brand like they talk

SM: That must be quite special.

those

is

a

not

of

she

models

models bigger than the average

looking

transgender

now

The

particularly ridiculous to me.

in

whole

universe.

starting to change. The idea

up

but

any

illusion worked. But that is

A:

the

know

from this impossibly glamorous

at all. Who is she with? IMG,

movement

didn't

about ours.

more than one way. It is deeply hierarchical and seeks to be

appealing

different than to be excluded

of

so that it will be appealing

thrive.

be

Stop

brands, I saw some crossovers.

advertising

we still don't have a following line like this would need to

to

SM: I think for a long time

the

A: Ultimately it's having real

that I would think a clothing

it

everyone.

will happen, for example with

think this label is one of the best brands in the world yet

want

because

I

It

like

is!

a

And

it's

mind-fuck

at

our

kind for

sales

of

me

and

popularity. I don't understand what the problem is. Because we are literally a brand for

everybody and how could that

not be appealing to everybody?

I think it's just a marketing problem. Our branding is very confusing.

Is

it

Sixty-Nine?

Is it Six-Nine? Is it Six-Nine US? For me, it would just be

p. 55

69

For Everybody and Every Body

the symbol. I would not call

example

with social media platforms, I

of

it anything. But I have to. And cannot just use 69; I cannot have

the

and

people

I

website

think

label

it's

69.com.

very

special

respond

beautifully.

But

to

the

It's

very

inspiring and it makes it worth

it, you know? I feel like it's making some sort of difference.

SM: a

You

are

difference

certainly for

making

your

older

customers. Ageism is thinking of

someone

manner The

based

in

on

elderly

a

prejudiced

their

age.

the

countries

Homophobia are

at

in

the

and

receiving

sadly

A: And regardless of whether

clothes. I think it's all about

brand becoming so big that we

our language to not just make

moment.

learn, they are still people.

need

we have to compromise anything

about dressing people. It's a

which

rise

a

lot

transphobia

more

attention

as well nowadays. But as for ageism, it remains very much

treating

others

based on their age. There is no awareness yet. But I don't see

how it would be any different from having a prejudiced view of

any

other

society.

group

within

different

from

it.

In

racism

or

homophobia. Ironically, brands miss out on a lot of buying power

when

generations. has

69

How

been

them?

A:

neglecting

There

potential

successful.

in

is

but

And

older

successful

appealing

a

we

lot

to

more

have

been

ageism

is

a

huge topic to me. More so than

race or sex because much of our

society has a certain view of people who are of a particular

age or above it. People from

generations before us have aged so differently than we will. I

feel like we are this ‘forever young’ the

generation

information

technology

age.

because

age

But

and

it's

of

the so

important to me to appeal to this older generation and to

try and give them a platform because I grew up with people

who were sixty. They were old,

you know? They retire and they don't do anything. Their bodies start

to

weird

even

65

And

she

changing that.

about

SM: It's an issue that people as

aware

of

as

for

For

definitely

still

has

wants

to

work.

She

been looking for a job for two

or three years but she can't get

hired.

She

is

far

more

skilled than a lot of people applying for the same jobs but

they will not hire her because

of her age. That is just so insane.

It's

just

as

insane

as not hiring someone for any

anything

to

towards, being all-inclusive.

Given

non-demographic

clothing gains enough momentum cause

in

the

change

a

permanent

industry,

for

shift

what

big

will

labels

and

retailers, both creatively and corporately?

A:

Marketing

change.

just

How

has

do

we

to

see

anything? How is it marketed?

It's all advertising. Everyone

is making conscious decisions about

how

to

market

things,

and there needs to be a huge shift. There would be no going

back. Glimpses of how fashion has

been

portrayed

in

the

past would become a novelty.

I

really

hope

we

are

headed

towards that. The thing is, no

one has been a fan of this.

It's like we drank the KoolAid.

Nobody

is

happy

about

how it is. At this point, the fashion

industry

ultimately

isn't run by real people but by

definitely issue.

traction

There

awareness

And

has

of

it

in

it's

just

on

this

been

the

more

past

couple of years. I think there was a documentary on advanced

style that was a big thing for this topic. It was very niche but you could see older people being ‘cool’.

I

remember

documentary Bill his

on

there

was

Iris

Cunningham.

photographic

recognised

at

seeing

one

And

work

that

a

Apfel; about

to

stage

was

another

decisive

factor

that is mostly only achieved

through transparency. It would

more expensive. And once people

are really aware of why those cheaper

things

are

cheaper,

they will be so much less appealing. Or at least shoppers

will have a choice. I feel like

in all those department stores or places where things are re-

ally cheap or disposable, there should

be

claimer,

some

just

kind

like

of

on

dis-

ciga-

rettes. “These are the people who made these clothes, these are the wages they received and these are the lives they live”.

SM:

I

customers

agree.

make

on

fact.

You

purchase you make. That concept in

itself

is

beyond

many

people, not just with regards

to fashion but with anything you

can

buy.

As

consumers,

we often fail to realise the

impact of our consumption and we

would

do

more educated.

well

to

become

the option. I mean we live in

it's only going to get crazier.

There is only going to be more

information. It's all already

to

brands investing less in cethis-world fashion shows, and investing

more

into

laying

bare their methods of produc-

tion or even in making their pricing

public,

like

Pieters’ Honest By: does.

Bruno

are doing! Starting with how going to make videos of it. To show how we buy our fabrics,

where our stuff is made, who the people are that make our

nice (laughs) but that is not

though, the more you expand, be

more

to

difficult

operate

it

ethically

will

and

authentically. There is a real danger of trivialising issues dealing for

with

example.

race

or

Fashion

gender,

and

the

media are cashing in on those

topics at the moment and sadly this will cause many to develop negative those

feelings

subjects.

How

towards

will

you

make sure 69 will not cause any damage?

A: Personally I don't see this

selling

themselves

short

if they only focus on clothing.

idea of what a brand can do.

it to continue to be inspiring

and fun and thoughtful and conscious. So to answer your ques-

tion, we just have to be really aware of where it goes. I will

do my best to be as considerate as possible, to not to trivialise certain topics and definitely to bring more awareness to them instead.

that is quite an old-fashioned

There was a time when designers

just made clothes and that was that. But nowadays, everyone is collaborating and everyone has a message. If you want to be seen

as contemporary, it is crucial

to be out there and to engage consumers in new, original ways.

Essentially, you must give your brand a meaning. I think this is a welcome development.

do with actually being in touch

A:

question.

cannot do anything else.

The

more

internal-

ised they are in your thought

Yes,

absolutely.

Although,

no shame on those who do not or

process, the more you can steer

SM:

against

trivialisation

philosophy of course still works

A:

I

your

brand

towards

working

rather

than going along with it.

Yes,

agree.

I

think

we

have been successful with that.

I certainly don't try and push anything down anyone’s throat.

I

think

everything

we

have

stood for and responded to has been very fluid. We don't have any ulterior motives.

instance, you made clothes for

speaking

are

breath of fresh air and I want

front of our faces.

Realistically

lifestyle. I feel like brands

SM: I agree. Again, it feels like

goal is just for it to be a

SM: You have been rather active

step is for it to simply be in

clothes. This brand is not just

the goal with this brand. The

at our fingertips and the next

the

change

anything. I mean that would be

with the people or issues in

lebrity designers and out-of-

welcome

in being a multimillionaire or

are casting a vote with every

based

an

enables

that we do. I have no interest

SM: I would say it also has to

decision

to

It

would lose control or feel like

actual

SM:

a

our products are made, we are

Obviously, there is a lot to

there's

a reason for something being

see

be

in

fantastic.

learn from older people.

is

A: Oh my God, that is what we

his life, with a ninety-minute documentary,

try are experiencing moderni-

for be

that

this crazy information age and

sation, as well. Authenticity

sex.

realise

change.

anybody, but something has to

really sad. I think there is

their

to

A: Well, we should at least have

SM: Other aspects of the indus-

or

transparency because consumers

robots. I hope I don't offend

other reason, like their race

then

conscious

want

lives in Florida and she has

this

being

I

to.

energy and is a capable person.

recognising

what they do with their lives

something

awareness

instance, my aunt who is not

SM:

really

it's

bring

just

just

not

to

that

that's

issue with how people age and

are

brand,

Because

does not have to happen. It's

and

is an issue for me and as a

It's

process

really

you brought it up because it

atrophy.

out-dated.

this

it's about bringing awareness

is

And that is what we are working

to

of

there

No one likes to be excluded.

nature

oblivious to the discriminatory

to it. And I'm so happy that

to

not

SM:

all the ways it matters, it's

subjected

or

a non-topic. People are simply

A: There is no difference. And

no

p. 56

racism,

on

are

commonly

especially

seems

in

other

fields,

too.

For

a video project by performance artist

P-Orridge,

Genesis

collaborated

photographic

series

Breyer on

a

called

Together with Erika Zorzi and Matteo

Sangalli

of

Mathery

Studio and you exhibited beach loungers that had been given

your signature denim treatment at the 2016 Berlin Biennale. In

2017, it's no longer enough for a brand to just make clothing.

Why do you think this is?

A: Well, you are really limit-

ing yourself if you do. We have always been a lifestyle brand.

It has always been a part of

it

It's

important

all.

A

more

to

have

traditional

best for some but it's nice to have that remix.

A: I'm just crazy and I have too many ideas!

SM:

So

since

69

is

already

involved in much more than just making clothes, what's next?

A: We have a solo show at the Museum

of

Contemporary

Art

in August 2018, at the Pacific

Design Centre here in LA. We're going to show exactly what this brand is all about and make a

lot of stuff for it, not just limited

to

clothing.

It's

not

a fashion show; it's a museum.

We

will

be

making

furniture

and videos for an installation and that's our actual focus. I have all the ideas for it. It's

really just about getting some renderings the

budget

done, and

figuring

to

see

possible

and

what's

ground

or

started

out

what's

not.

But

we have not officially broken making

anything yet because it's still a year away. We start work in January.

p. 57