Swimmer's Ear Magazine #10

issue number ten

-SONG OF ZARATHUSTRA -AARON MEZA -MARK WHITELEY -SONNY MAYUGBA -THE BOOK OF DEAD NAMES -3RD LAIR VS RIDE -JOAN OF ARC -FIFTEEN YEARS OF THE HOT SPOT -BRIAN PERRY -SIGNAL TO TRUST -STACKED CHICAGO -ROB NORLAND

F RE E

swimmer’s ear magazine

swimmer's ear magazine #10 Editors Adam Sever Chris Pernula

Contributing Writers Jack Boyd Contributing Photographers Nickie Kessel Benji Meyer Michael Stenerson Jason Dickman Matt Rezac Cover: Jesse Reed, 50-50 Photo by Jesse Demartino Here: Den Davey, Smith Grind Photo By Michael Stenerson

MEMO: T

HANK

YOU

to everyone who contributed pictures

- Michael Stenerson, Jason Dickman, Matt Rezac, Benji Meyer, and Nickie Kessel.

to everyone who contributed writing

- Jack Boyd.

to everyone who advertised in this issue - Tommy at Medium Control, Jack at Stacked/Fonix, Jesse at True Ride, Linda at The Hot Spot, Matt at Thurman Lewis, and Tom at Modern Radio.

Thanks to Brian Schmickle at Insty Prints for donating 500 sheets of glossy paper for the cover.

Big thanks to the following: Brian Perry, Travis Bos, Signal to Trust, Aaron Meza, Mark Whitely, Sonny Mayugba, Linda, Mark Muller, Rob Norland and Tim Kinsella. Without you we’d have no interviews.

Thank you.

Photo: Micheal Stenerson

Welcome to Issue #10

Pete Larson MEMO FIRST VARIANCE NINTENDO SKATE SONG OF ZARATHUSTRA AARON MEZA MARK WHITELEY SONNY MAYUGBA THE BOOK OF DEAD NAMES 3RD LAIR VS RIDE JOAN OF ARC FIFTEEN YEARS OF THE HOT SPOT BRIAN PERRY INTERVIEW SIGNAL TO TRUST STACKED CHICAGO ROB NORLAND PHOTOS THE END

swimmer’ s ear

MAGAZINE What’ s Inside

Issue # 1 0 March 03

For a limited time, we are re-releasing Issue #1 for $3 to anyone that wants one. Contact us at SwimmersEarMag@aol.com.

HIP HOP IS DEAD SUMMER TOUR 2003 SAT., APRIL 5TH AT 9:00 PM AT 3RD LAIR Join the Sodalicious Skateboard Team and Company for a 2 hour skate jam from 9:00 - 11:00. Entry is 5.00 per head.

Enter a raffle to win some sick prizes: - GRAND PRIZE 5 Sodalicious COMPLETE Skateboards.

1 year Membership to the 3rd Lair.

20 Tickets to a Timberwolves B-Ball Game for you and all your homies.

- SECOND PRIZE Hook-Up from Supernatural Clothing Co. - THIRD PRIZE Gift pack from Cal Surf Skateshop and Fifth Element.

CINCO DE MAYO 'OUT CHAMPIONSHIP' AND 7 YEAR ANNIVERSARY PARTY! SATURDAY, MAY 3RD The 3rd Lair will celebrate its 7 year anniversary - can you believe it?! Thy’ve worked hard for seven years to bring you the best facility for skateboarding and every year they reward their members with a free skate day and bar-be-que!

Non - members get in for half price. 3rd Lair will be celebrating all day and will have their second annual 'Out Championship'. This is a head to head tournament and the winner will walk away with 320.00 bucks! (10.00 to enter).

They only allow 64 competitors for this, so you need to sign up IN ADVANCE at the 3rd Lair. Placement in the bracket is totally random. So far they have about 40 entries still open - don't wait to long or you'll have to be a spectator.

3RD LAIR 1ST ANNUAL SKATEBOARD VIDEO FESTIVAL Saturday, July 20th at 6:00PM - Deadline for submissions is July 13th. Videos must be made by local filmmakers. Only 20 videos allowed. Go to 3rdlair.com for more information.

CHECK OUT OUR ADVERTISERS Thurman Lewis - thurmanlewis.com Stacked - midwestbrand.com/stacked Fonix - midwestbrand.com/fonix Hot Spot - hotspotworldwide.com True Ride - trueride.com Medium Control - mediumcontrol.com Modern-Radio - modern-radio.com Check Swimmer’s Ear out online at swimmersear.homstead.com

Ester Drang - Infinite Keys - Jade Tree - Oklahoma’s Ester Drang is about feeling. The feeling you get when you’re driving down a country road on a bright sunny day with the window down. The big fluffy clouds are rolling along the rich blue skyline. Or the feeling you get when you’re waiting for the bus. When there are cars and people rushing to their jobs and whatnot. Their music is synchronized with every day life. Whether you’re driving down the country road or waiting for a bus in a busy suburb, Ester Drang’s music will amaze you. Cursive - The Ugly Organ - Saddle Creek You could call Cursive’s new album a concept album, because it sounds like nothing I’ve heard before. Each song is dramatically different. The first track opens with evil, scary, carnival music that leads into a fast paced song with a cello. This then leads into track 3 with an up beat feel, but then track 4 slows it down and makes it good. If you like Cursive, you’ll most likely enjoy this record. Cave In - Antenna - RCA - Cave In’s new album is a musical assault on today's crap rock like Creed and Nickelback. Every song on the album is rock. Not the sissy whiney rock, but brutal guitar pounding rock. Lifter Puller - Soft Rock - Self Starter Foundation - This double disc features all of LFTR PLLR music except what was on “Fiestas and Fiascos.” Lead singer, Craig Finn, has an easily recognizable voice with lyrics that are something to listen to. They have the most unique lyrics I’ve heard. This is one album you should have if you’re a Lifter Puller fan, or if you’re collecting music by some of Minnesota's best musical artists.

Songs: Ohia -Magnolia Electric Co. - Secretly Canadian - If you couldn’t get into Songs: Ohia before, after listening to this album for one second you’ll be rocking it like a 12 year old girl at a Nick Carter concert. Magnolia Electric Co. is more upbeat than his previous albums and there are many different singers that take the lead of many of the songs. It’s not country music, but it’s more of a folk. Songs: Ohia can be easily compared to Neil Young and Bob Dylan. Foo Fighters - One By One - RCA - Foo Fighters could record pure silence for an hour and give it to the record execs. and still sell a million copies of it. Everyone says that this is their best album yet. It’s hard for me to say that too. At first listen I didn’t like it, but then it kind of grew on me. There are too many tracks to skip over, which isn’t good. AFI - Sing the Sorrow - DreamWorks - AFI has been making music for ten years now and it shows on this album. Any AFI fan will be pleased to add this to their collection. Great songs and great guitar solos equal a great album. Joan of Arc - So Much Staying Alive and Lovelessness - Jade Tree - After breaking up and starting other bands, Joan of Arc is back with a new record done completely without the help of computers. Recorded in an analog studio, Tim Kinsella and crew laid down the tracks to their best album yet. Joan of Arc - In Rape Fantasy and Terror Sex We Trust - Perishable Records - How many bands do you know that release 2 albums within 3 months of each other after breaking up. Recorded in the same sessions as “Lovelessness”, this album starts where “Lovelessness” left off.

Pure genius. Even if you don’t like Joan of Arc, you still have to give Tim Kinsella some respect; this is his 16th release since 1996, which comes out to being more than one album a year.

Skate or Die A fun game with hard controls. If you ever tried to skate “goofy footed,” left was right and vice versa. What was up with the High Air, you needed a turbo controller to even get off the ground. The funnest part is the Joust game, where you have to skate the pool and tri to knock of opponites.

Skate or Die 2 A large improvment over its predecesor. The halfpipe game was worth 2 weeks lunch money along.There is nothing cooler than doing backflips over the spine. The “street” portion of the game is cool, the mall level being the funnest. This game is almost a RPG compared to the skate video games nowadays. Skate Straight 720° This game is probably the coolest looking one Nintendo released. It was like skating a skatepark. This was originally a arcade game. The skater is a bit hard to control, but all in a ll a fun game.

T & C Surf Designs This game is cool because to the charecter names. You had Joe Cool and Tiki Man on the skate, and Thrilla Gorilla and Kool Kat on the surf. T & C is a very fun game. The levels stay the same but get more difficult the more you do. I have no idea how many levels there are, I’ve been as high as level 12, and it keeps going. This is the only game of these four that you could actually to board slides on rails. You can also do shove its, but you have to go through the oil slicks first.

Song of Zarathustra

Interview with Travis Bos in Dec. 2002, Photos by Matt Rezac

When did Song of Zarathustra form? Originally, March of 1997. How many albums have you put out? 2 full lengths, 5 seven inches, a 10"/cd picture disc, a few different comps, etc... Where did the name Song of Zarathustra come from? 2001 Space Odyssey What is Song of Zarathustra's biggest influence? Things that don't suck.

Who makes up Song of Zarathustra and what does each member bring to the group? TJ = guitar/vocals, Mark S.= bass, Travis = vocals/keyboard, Mark J.= drums.

We all write and add opinion. Some songs certain people do more than others. Who writes the songs, and where do the lyrics come from, are they personal or fictional? They're generally fictional portraying personally moments. Musically, TJ and I did most of the writing and composing. Where has Song of Zarathustra traveled to?

Most of the U.S. and 13 countries in europe. In what country do you get the best response? Germany. Then I would say France or the U.K. At what point did you decide to pursue music as a career? When you realize that, that is what makes you:music. When you live, eat, breath music, you may tend to lead more of a lifestyle that centers around just that. At least,that's how I think. I,personally, would like to be more active as a band(tours,etc.) What do you do when your not playing music?

Handling emails, mail orders, band stuff for a few hours a day, work, have a drink or two at the bar here and there. Random show,etc... What kind of music did you listen to when you were growing up? When I was a young kid, I grew up with 3 older brothers. They were 10,11 and 12 years older than me. So, I grew up on the Sugarhill Gang, Journey, Boston, AC/DC, Queen, David Bowie, Run DMC, etc, etc... Middle school,high school,I listened to metal, thrash metal, death metal, punk/hardcore, as well as goth, new wave, death rock, noise,etc... What do you listen to now? The same stuff, as well as brit pop, glam rock form the 70's era, hip hop... What's worse, long drives or long plane flights? They both suck.......probably long flights....cause you have to deal with tons of passengers...

D E C

2 0 0 2 ,

S O N G

O F

Z A R AT H U S T R A

B R E A K S

U P

What are you planning to do now? Well, it depends on when this magazine comes out. It's Dec. 20th right now. I'm talking to a few people about starting a band. A few others are in a band right now. Why did you decide to break up?

It was just time to. I think we all can agree on that. What can we expect from the last shows? Jan 11th. sat. 2003 at the 7th St entry.

All ages show at 4PM and the 21+ show is at 9PM. It will be So Fox ( ex Selby Tigers ),the Soviettes, End Transmission and us. $6 What do you want people to remember about Song of Zarathustra? That it all started in a living room in Sioux City, Iowa. Was this the best band you've played in? To date,yes. I've accomplished more and had more memorable moments with the group. How do you feel now that its over? Relieved and sad. Do you think you will play in another band like Song of Zarathustra? I hope not. that would feel really generic. It's time to try something different. I like many genres...We'll see what happens. Song of Zarathustra has broken up before and gotten back together, is there any possibility of that happening again. That would be obsurd. Please hit me if that happens.

Would you like to thank anyone? Anyone who gave a damn. Thanks.

AaronM e z a

Editor of Skateboarder Magazine

How/when did your the magazine you work for start?

In the 60s, then it went out of business. Now it's back.

How many issues are put out in a year and what is the numbers of issues printed (circulation) per month?

12 per year, over a 100 thousand is our circulation. I think we print more though. Who knows. Lots of dead trees. So sad.

How long does it take to get an issue out start to finish?

Two months.

When did you become editor?

Summer of 1999.

What did you do before you became editor?

Filmed for skate videos.

If you started your own magazine, how would it be different from the one you work at?

Not much different.

What kind of training do need to be an editor at a major skateboarding magazine?

Know every little trivial thing about skateboarding. Have people skills.

What advice can you give kids who want to do what you do?

Just do it. Don't write to editors and ask for a job without actually doing something. It's better to do an article and show it to them instead of actually saying you want to do an article.

What exactly does the editor do?

Little this, little of that. Yell at people.

What's the best/worst part of your job?

Best part is it's skateboarding. Worst part is dealing with deadlines and telling people you don't want to run one of their photos. Also sometimes you're really into doing the magazine and some of your co-workers aren't. That's depressing.

If there was one thing you could change about the magazine you work at, what would it be?

The paper stock and raises for everyone. That's two things, sorry.

What do you think the importance of underground zines is?

Very important to the local scene and for the people making them. It's fun to do and that's always important. People need to have more fun.

What issue are you most proud of?

All of them, none of them.

What is your favorite underground zine?

I used to like this one called Skate & Create, it was in San Francisco, but it's gone. I don't get that many zines.

What are your favorite articles about?

The ones that I didn't do.

What makes a quality magazine?

Good skating, interesting stories.

Mark W h i t e l e y Adam, here's my $.02

H ow/when did your the magazine you work for start ?

First issue was April 1992, tarted up as a concept a few months before.

H ow m a ny issues are put out in a year and what is the numbers of issues printed (circulation) per month?

Monthly, or 12 per year. Circ is somewhere around 60,000/month but I'm not totally sure.

H ow long does it take to get an issue out start to finish?

Hard to say. Sometimes we work on stories for a few days, sometimes it takes a year. The actual production of the physical mag takes about three weeks of assembly in the month cycle.

When did you become editor?

Started working here August 1998 as managing editor, officially became editor in about November 1999.

What did you do before you became editor?

Before the mag I worked as a videographer for a lot of companies in the area while I was in high school and college and got to know a lot of people in the industry that way. Lance Dawes, the original editor, was looking for somebody to help run the mag day-to-day and help out with all aspects of the the mag. My name was brought up to him by some friends and skaters, and eventually I started here as managing editor, which was basically everything I do now except with less final say.

What exactly does the editor do?

Can't speak for how other mags go, but basically I oversee the entire deal-writing, editing, photography, production-- everything that goes in the mag must go through me.We have Joe Brook as our photo editor, so he is mostly in charge of photography decisions, but we do that end of things together. He and I share a lot of responsibilities as far as determining what happens in the mag especially because skateboarding is such an image-driven thing and he's out in the world with the skaters every day. but basically I have to know what's happening with every aspect of the mag from start to finish-ideas to writing to shooting photos to interviews to reviews to design to keeping contact with the staff and contributors too payment and on and on.

If there was one thing you could change about the magazine yo u work at, what would it be?

Have the owners feel like it's good to be a smaller mag who doesn't need to compete with the guys in the grocery store where your grandma shops.

What issue are you most proud of?

Can't say really, there are parts of many mags that I'm really proud of. If I could only choose one I guess it would be our "how-to" issue from November 1999, but really I wouldn't want to choose one.

Editor of Slap Magazine

What are your favorite articles about?

Personally, my favorite articles are about people who skate and see things differently. A good example from SLAP would be the Bobby Puleo interview we did a couple issues back. Skaters who have something to say, not just handrails to grind.

What kind of training do need to be an editor at a major skateboarding magazine?

None. A love of skateboarding first and foremost is the real need, anger management skills, an interest in diverse subjects, ability to do a little bit of everything, some dedicated friends to help make it happen, know a couple skaters, a few decent ideas here and there, a phone, and a desire to want to give something back to a community which has given you so much.

What advice can you give kids who want to do what you do?

Skate and meet people. Learn how to write about people and places. Know skateboarding's past. See skating as a way of life, not an activity. Appreciate all the ways people skate and all the things that it means to them. Skate as much as possible.You can't be legit if you aren't out there dong it.

W h a t ’s the best/worst part of your job?

Worst: It's largely an office job and I'm on the computer and the phone a lot. My eyes hurt. I deal with skateboarding all day but don't get to skate all day.

Best: It's skateboarding and there isn't anything I know better. I get to show people around the world new things that might stoke them out or change their lives. I get to give back. I get to travel. I get to make a decent living doing something that deals with most of the things that have made me who I am.

And if I come to work looking like I joined fight club the weekend before, all I have to say is "I hung up on the 4th Street Ramp" and everybody knows.

Skateboarding has become more important to me than ever before since I've been here.

What do you think the importance of underground zines is?

An expression of passion, a way to push the local scene, a way to document your life and the things that are important to you, a way to create with no other desire involved other than the want to create.

What is your favorite underground zine?

These days I like "Paying in Pain," but my all time favorite is "City One." W h a t m a kes a quality magazine?

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

Sonny M a y u g b a

Editor of Heckler

H ow/when did your the magazine you work for start ?

1992. It was started by 4 guys (Sonny Mayugba, John Baccigaluppi, Matt Kennedy, Chris Carnel).We were skateboarders, musicians, snowboarders who wanted a creative outlet and a way to get free snowboard gear because snowboarding was expensive.

H ow m a ny issues are put out in a year and what is the nu m b e r s of issues printed (circulation) per month?

12X year, 30K per issue.

H ow long does it take to get an issue out start to finish?

Actual production time is about 6-10 weeks, but that's not including ALL the time the photographers and writers spend working on a story. Some can be shot in 2 weeks, some take 2 years. Example: Ryan Johnson took 4 weeks, Mark Gonzalez took a year and a half.

When did you become editor?

As a founder of Heckler, I've always been on the editorial board, I was the full-fledged editor from 1998 to August 31, 2002.

What did you do before you became editor?

Everything. Mostly sold ads, ran the business.

What exactly does the editor do?

Champions the voice of the magazine, guides the overall editorial, design, and photographic direction.They distill the message.

If there was one thing you could change about the magazine yo u work at, what would it be?

Hire all my friends to work there with big salaries.

What issue are you most proud of?

The Handwritten Issue.

What are your favorite articles about?

Intimacy, heart, feeling, humanity.

If you started your ow n m ag a z i n e, h ow would it be diffe rent fro m the one you work at?

I would work there.

What kind of training do need to be an editor at a major skateboarding magazine?

Charisma, knowledge, respect, ideas, and vision.Where do you "train" for these things?

What advice can you give kids who want to do what you do?

Don't do what I want do, do what YOU want to do. Do what you REALLY want to do. Follow your heart. If you want to be an editor of a magazine, either: 1. Start working at a magazine you love and respect in hopes to climb the ladder.

2. Start your own magazine.

W h a t ’s the best/worst part of your job?

Best: Letters from readers, the feeling of getting an issue back from the printer, tons of free shit, traveling, all my friends.

Worst: Low pay, limitations from brain ideas to print media, limited promotions budgets.

What do you think the importance of underground zines is?

VIP. Heckler started as an underground free zine.They're pure (most of them) and are the breeding ground for talented people.

What is your favorite underground zine?

For skateboarding, Paying in Pain.

W h a t m a kes a quality magazine?

True vision, great content, a sense of humor, exposing people's insides on paper for everyone to see...

The Book of Dead Names Interview with Travis Bos, Photo by Matt Rezac

How did the Book come together?

James R. and I worked together, Andy was friends with James M. and I when we moved here from Sioux City, IA, after Song of Zarathustra broke up (for 2 years.98-2000 ). We just decded to start a band. We weren't doing shit at the time for bands.

How many members have their been?

A total of 10 What other bands to the Book's members play in?

I play in Song of Zarathustra, James and Becky played in Cadillac Blindside, Andy and John play in The Crush, Eric plays in Heads N'Bodies, and the rest are either nowhere to be found or doing thier own thing.

With people paying in other bands, how did you get everyone in the same place to record a record?

Ha,ha! It's not that easy. We broke up in 2000 so I could rejoin S.O.Z. We decided to record what we had left over, which was 6 songs. 2 years later, we decided to finish it and make it an Lp/CD (which is on Blood of the Young Records ) Is the Book a side project, or a active band?

It's not active at all. I mean, it could be if we had the ambition but, our main bands are the focus at the moment. Who knows, maybe we'll play again.

How many shows has the Book played, and are they going to play some in the future?

I have no idea if there'll be more. As far as shows we played, I dunno....We went on a U.S. tour, several mini tours, shows in town, etc... Probably around a 100 or so. Not to much.

How is writing songs for the Book different than writing them for S.O.Z.?

The style's are different, people have their own ways of explaining parts, etc..... There's the little differences. Nothing exciting to talk about though.

When people hear the name of the band what is their first reaction? "......Oh,really...?"

"Oh,the necronomicon! Hey,do you like evil dead?"

What do you want people to think when they hear The Book of Dead Names?

That it's not Jimmy Eat World.

What is the musical and lyrical influence behind BODN? Musical influence? hmmm, fast, hard and entertaining live bands, I guess. Lyrically? I like enemies for that. They are always helpful. They actually are a good source of inspiartion.

What musical genre does BODN fit into?

Metal based Free Jazz with a Mid 70's Glam Rock feel, but not to be confused with soul or ska. It's more like ABBA really...

The track "it never ends" did you do the ending in one take, and why didn't you make it longer?

Yes we did it in one take. It started to drive our friend Eric Olsen completely nuts. We recorded both sessions in 2 days....Thats not a lot of time to do 6 to 8 songs each session. I think adding anymore to the length of that song would seriously have damaged his sanity.

Since BODN isn’t an active band, what do you want people to remember about it?

That it was fucked up.

Versus The Skatepark Battle

3rd Lair So, which is better? Which one do you support? We put 3rd Lair against the new Ride park in Plymouth and weighed all the factors to see which is better. After you look at the photos and all the facts, which one will you choose.

Ride

The Street Course 3rd Lair I’ve never actually had a chance to skate the new 3rd Lair, but I’ve been to the old one plenty of times to know that there courses are aways top notch. Their layout has tons of different lines to choose from, and you can move some of the obstacles around. One bonus is that 3rd Lair changes the layout twice a year to keep it fresh.

Ride This park cost around $450,000 dollars to build.

I’ve ridden this park, and its good. The only thing i see as a problem is that, some of the poles are in the way and you have to go over obstacles to hit the quarter pipes on the oppo site side of the park. This park does have a nice layout, and should be a challenge for any one to ride it.

T HE BOWL Ride I was amazed the first time I saw this bowl. There are all sorts of walls and extensions that face different direc tions. It’s kind of hard to ride, but that makes it fun. This bowl offers plenty of hips to carve around.

3rd Lair This bowl looks amazing. No, I haven’t ridden it yet, but damn! Look at that thing! The curves look beautiful. This bowl starts and 6 feet in the shallow end and grows to 9 feet in the deep end. There aren’t any extensions in this bowl; just a smooth ride. Can you believe Clint Peterson kickflipped into the deep end with no pads? He did.

T HE MINI

RAMP

3rd Lair Third Lair’s mini is a 24 foot wide monster. It’s so big it has its own room. Their mini also has as spine.

Ride Ride offers two mini ramps. The one shown is a 5 foot mini with a spine and a 6 foot extension. Their other mini is submerged in the deck near the bowl. That mini is 4 feet high and 12 feet wide. Both minis are fun to ride. You can learn tricks on the 4 foot and bring them to the 5 foot mini.

Why did you decide to start a skatepark?

It really wasn't me. I picked up a business plan that couldn't get off the ground; it was having trouble. I basically dove in and thought it was a cool thing for the kids and to sorta have another place to go that's safe and fun, hopefully challenging enough and that was really why.

Obviously not in this business to make money. It’s a full time hobby.

What did you do before this?

I wish I came from a skateboarding background. Through the right people and having the right people get things organized. It will be a park that will provide what it should provide. We don't do the job that 3rd Lair does; they’re well entrenched and know the business. We just have a nice park and it’s safe and it’s in the middle of Plymouth, Minnetonka, and Wayzata.

Why will skateboarders come to the ride park opposed to other parks?

It’s smaller, it has smaller ramps. They can skate without being intimidated by the size of the ramps. The traffic is pretty much back and forth; we haven't had any collisions.

Do you skate?

I did a little when I was in high school. I go out there fourteen or fifteen minutes. I can’t do a whole lot.

What do you think of 3rd lair?

I don't know much about it. I just know that they’re the foundation of skateboarding in the Twin Cities. Their park is different than ours; it has some things that we don't offer. Between the two, we have vastly different parks that compliment each other. I don't know them and I hope us being here isn't reeking too much havoc on them. I’ve got no ax to grind and I hope they don't with me. I hope we can have some friendly competitions when we get a team together, and hopefully we will get a chance to work together.

T HE P RO S H O P

3rd Lair The pro shop at 3rd Lair is how a shop should look. Decks, clothes, wheels, bearings, videos, magazines; everything you’d find in a skate shop. They also have mer chandise for almost every local company, so you know they’re supporting the local scene.

Ride When I was there, they only had two display cases of items. Most of what I saw was from nationally known companies like World Industries. They were definitely lacking in the pro shop category.

T HE

SPECIFICATIONS Give us a brief history of Ride: Opened Dec. 8th.

What is the square footage? - 36,000 sq. ft.

What are the dimensions of: Bowl - 6 ft. custom bowl.

Street course - 22,000 sq. ft.

Mini ramp- 2 submerged 4 ft. high 12 ft. wide, and 5 ft. high 24 ft. wide, with spine and 6 ft. extension.

What else does Ride offer for those not skateboarding? Climbing Wall, Go Cart Track, Party Rooms, Arcade and Pro Shop.

Ride Team? Currently No. Hours of Operation: Mon. - Fri. 11 -10, Sat. 9 -10 and Sun. 12 - 9.

Fees: Memebers pay $6 Mon. - Thurs. and Friday mornings. $7 on Friday night, and all day Sat. and Sun. Non-members pay $12 Mon. - Thurs. and Friday mornings. $14 on Friday night and all day Sat. and Sun. What kinds of events does Ride offer? - Skatepark, Climbing Wall, and go-karts.

Average # of people per week? Right now I would reveal that, because we’re building it up.

Give us a brief history of 3rd Lair - The 3rd Lair opened in February of 97 in the same warehouse of Mpls.'s previous 2 skateparks - we were the 3rd & it our Lair - so 3rd Lair seemed like a logical name.

What is the square footage? - About 20,000 sq. ft. indoor and 5000 sq. ft. outdoor = 25,000 sq. ft.

What are the dimensions of the bowl? Keyhole 6 feet and 9 feet, 3 foot waterfall.

Size of street course? - 14,000 sq. ft.

What else does 3rd Lair offer for those not skateboarding? Some arcade games, a lounge, and a pro-shop.

Mini Ramps Dimensions? - 24 feet wide 3rd Lair Team? - Jeremy Reeves, Brian Godfrey, Justin Weiner, Mike Guy, Tom Beggs.

Hours of Operation, Fee? - $10.00 for non-members & $5.00 for members.

What kinds of events does 3rd Lair offer? - All kinds; contests, skatecamps, music, video premieres, all-nighters.

Average # of people per week and what is the age range? Couple hundred riders per week; 5 - 35 yrs.

What do you think of Ride? - Typical competitor feelings. They’re too close to us; what do they put back into the scene? They are just corporate moguls trying to make some money off of skateboarding.

It’s pretty obvious that I'm not telling you something you don't already know. Why are we in it? We've skateboarded our whole lives; it’s all we know. It’s all I wanna know. - Mark Muller

a conversation with Tim Kinsella 1. Why did you chose not to use computers on this album? The record started out on computers with me and Casey Rice. After about a year of piling it on and chopping it up I ended up with an unmanageable pile of songs and no actual band. So when we started over with Graeme we were already doing so as a means of simplifying and diversifying the process. This is also the first record without Jeremy as part of the band contributing his homemade electronic gadgets and computer - so partly out of respect for him I wanted to leave that sort of space open for now instead of attempting to mimmick him. 2. Was this album harder or easier to write/record than previous ones? It was #1 - no harder or easier to write than the others since they each become life-consuming obsessions throughout their formative stages.It was #2 - easier to record than the others because Graeme is young and hungry and focused and we'd get such a head of steam behind us we'd work for 14 or 15 hours at a time without breaks and enjoying every surprise as it would occur. It was #3 - harder to record than the others because I have no head for business or business skills 3.

Do you think fans of your previous works will like this record? I guess I hope so since I don't seem to picking up any new listeners along the way and I don't want to stop doing it. I seem to know most of the audience by name most of the places we play at this point. 4. What is it about music that makes you create so much of it? I don't know - I never really ever think to do anything else. I'm probably a lousy, unhealthy, self-absorbed human because of it, but nothing else really interests me much at all. I pretend to care about other things but I get impatient and restless to get back to working on or playing music when I have to stop to eat or check my e-mail or get an amp repaired or whatever. My lady friend and I started making a documentary together last year that's what she does and we thought it'd be good to get me out of my room. We spent a couple months and shot 170 hours of footage and then it was like being overwhelmed by panic to get back to music and I just left her with the pile which in my defense is a situation she loves - and I was so recharged and excited to play again. I live in a warehouse with 6 other humans and we're all always playing music. It's just what my friends and I do together and what I do on my own. If I get bored after playing guitar for awhile I could play drums and when the drums begin to offer less moments of invention I can go over to the computer and get the headphones on and in between it all I'm writing little notes to myself of nonsense phrases and when the computer gets old I try to put the day's phrases together and by the time I hit a wall there the guitar will be new again. Sometimes I try to just hang out with people but then without exception - people I'd never expect it of - eventually everyone starts talking about TV and it's not that I'm so righteously opposed to it - I just don't care at all. I like to watch Charlie Rose a couple times a week but mostly just cuz he looks like my dad and meets all these interesting people so then I get to imagine my dad hanging out with authors and diplomats and tennis stars, but I don't know anything about these shows people talk about so I shut up and then I get bored and then I start playing again. 5. Does playing music ever get old for you? No. Maybe it will someday. I like to think about trying something else but I'm still waiting for whatever that something else might be to reveal itself. Playing shows and touring like a little trained chimp playing the same songs every night gets really old for me pretty quick but I have to do it I guess - it must be a kharmic debt. 6. What kind of influences (musical, personal, etc...) helped shape the "...Lovelessness" record? EarWax's Daily Vegan Stew, Sultan's Market Falafel Sandwiches, Irazu's Vegetarian Platter, Amitabul's Dr. K's CureAll Soup and Mandoo dumplings, The Bi Bim Bop and vegetable pancakes at Jim's Grill, Yellow American Spirits, Maker's Mark, Pilsner Irquel, Spaten, Kirichi, Weed, John Cale, John Cassavetes, John Coltrane, Jean-Luc Godard, Jean Moreau, Bauhas, Bob Dylan, Salon.com, My uniquely white American male sense of entitlement, The Rainbo Club, Lula, The Atlantic Monthly, Howard Zinn, Noam Chomsky, My house mate David Rowley's Robot Army, Lungfish, Steppenwolf, My Bloody Valentine, Black Sabbath, Will Oldham, Brian Eno, Need New Body, Hella, A trip to Europe, The new kids getting uppity. 7. So far you been in bands that have released an album a year for the lasts 7 years. Are you going for some kind of record, and how many

more years do you think this will last? This is a real consistent theme of questioning for you huh? There's 365 days in a year and 24 hours a day. Isn't that a whole lot of time? What are you doing with all that time? I like playing music and I like recording songs and I like making records. If the average too long record is 12 songs, that's still just one song a month and songs are written in an instant. Every song I've been a part is suffered over for at least a year, sometimes 2 or more before I'd ever surrender it to an already oversaturated entertainment industry, but they're still all written in a single moment. I'm not particularly interested in selling records or breaking records or anything else I'm trying to keep myself happy and engaged in my own life each day. There's no lack of records to buy in the world that I'm trying to right - this is what I do because this is what I can do so I try to do the best I can at it. And I've never really thought about how many more years can I do this - I'd be just as happy if I stood up from my computer right now and never thought about music again - it just so happens that music is how I've been able to think since I was 2 years old and how I continue to be able to think. If I could think or feel in another way that made me as happy and engaged in my life as music I'm certainly open to it. 8. How does it make you feel that in every review or interview about you, there is a reference to Cap'n Jazz? It's nice and very flattering that it made some kind of impression on some people. I haven't heard it since we mastered the jade tree reissue and I was surprised then by how it sounded. I have a vague idea of how I think it sounded but it was a long time ago and memories, especially memories as impressionistic as music, mutate and fade, so I don't really know what it sounds like to people or why people have reacted to it beyond the shockingly bad name. As far as I can tell the impulses are still the same for each of us, but of course we'd be the last to really know. 9. Are future Joan Of Arc albums going to be recorded without the help of computers?

Probably not. By cultural design it's tough to do anything anymore without the help of computers. Whether or not they'll end up all self-consciously computery sounding remains to be seen. 10. How is In Rape Fantasy and Terror Sex We Trust different than the So Much Staying Alive and Lovelessness album? They were both recorded as the same big bundle and we didn't know until all the songs were done what either record would become - we just had a big pile of songs. As we sorted them out it became clear how to approach getting everything to settle right. It's all intuitive really - so it's easy to say that the Rape Fantasy and Terror Sex record is stranger or more confrontational, but how that all fell into place and ended up as such is impossible to say. 11. Is there a different message that you try to convey with each album? I tend to prefer to let the means lead the ends. Like there's a pendulum that's swinging to keep me on balance and the approach to each record is dictated by this, ie; we've been playing looser and noisier, let's tighten up for awhile and see where it gets us or we've been recording live let's piece this one together or vice-versa.

None of the records have ever had an explicit message - (though the first one did suffer from a lack of explicitly sarcastic typography so what I thought was a dumb joke liner note became a common question to us about our 'concept albums' and easy point for those who'd rather just disregard us as pretentious.)

To bog any of the albums down with an explicit message would be reductive I feel and not allow each song whatever breathing room or potential it may demand on it's own. Joan of Arc is now me, my brother, my cousin and my best friend for the last 15 years. 3 of us still live together. It's a small shallow pool but our trust couldn't be more well established so what we have left to push is all in the approach, and hopefully that's enough to diversify what also hopefully comes across as a cohesive whole. 12. Now that Davey Von Bohlen is no longer playing in TPR, is there any chance of a Cap'n Jazz reunion? If a cap'n jazz reunion could stop the war in Iraq or somehow empower all the world's oppressed and help usher in a universally egalitarian utopia I'm certain we'd all be doing it in a second. But as far as learning covers of ourselves as teenagers just for the nostalgia or vainglory of it all goes, I don't imagine it happening until I'm bald and driving around in my red convertible and still can't get laid by girls half my age.

15 Years of the

When did the hot spot open?

My son, Michael, and I opened The Hot Spot in April 1988.

Why did you start the hot spot?

We moved here in 1983 and soon realized that the Twin Cities needed a skate shop. It was tough to find what you needed if you had a skateboarder in the family, so we took it from there.

Has it always been in the same spot?

We have always been in University Creek Plaza, but have expanded through the years.

What are some of the differences from when it first opened and now?

Skateboarding, in general, was much more “underground” in the 1980’s, a very tight group of kids. We had a skatepark back then, and it was like a big club to them. It is different now with the media breaking into the action sports. Now everyone is aware of the skateboarder and snowboarder ripping it up behind everyone’s back.

How do you feel about mall stores like Zumiez?

I don’t.

What has been most rewarding in running the Hot Spot?

Having our big skateboard family.

Is it true that everyone at the hot spot is related, or is it a rumor?

We are all brothas from different mothas. Seriously, the most family we have had here is three at one timeJer, Josh, and Sister Sam.

How do you feel Hot Spot compares to other skate shops in MN? We do our thing-having fun and just enjoying what we do.

What kind of response did the Hot Spot get when it opened?

The Hot Spot soon became the neighborhood place-away from those who didn’t get it.

What kind of promotions do you have?

CouponsGive-awaysand stuff…..

Whenever someone buys a board, you take their name and board down and you put it into a database. For every ten boards you buy what do you get?

It depends—Free Deck, Trucks and Wheels, Shoes, etc.

How many decks do you think you've sold in 15 years?

A grove or two of maple trees.

What has been the hardest thing about running the Hot Spot?

Not having a drive-up window.

The Hot Spot was one of the first shops in MN to run commercials on TV with skateboarding in it. What prompted you to run those commercials?

We wanted to have fun with our advertising and we do. The best was an interview on a local cable talk show… Josh really hammed it up. Serious ads aren’t half the fun of watching ones like that on TV. What are the future plans for the Hot Spot?

We’ll just keep being “The Hot Spot”. Having a skatepark again would be slick--you never know---right now we are researching robots--having fun is what it’s all about and we do that every day.

Thank You.

B BRIAN RIAN P PERRY E R RY

BRIAN PERRY When did you start skating?

I started in about 1984. I was in 7th grade and my first Jr. High friend named Matt Hauer had a Variflex 'Chaos' and he's spin 360's in his driveway.

Where did you skate?

I'm from Stillwater so I skated there for years.

Who did you skate with?

Back then there were only about 10 or 12 skaters in the whole town. Blake Peterson, Tyler Lamotte, Mike Cain, Bunny, Dogger, God... it's strange to think about.

Who were the top quys in MN when you first started?

Eric Froland (Woody), Greg Bahn, Dave Stout, Pat Murphy, Even Mark Muller was pretty rad back then. But Woody was the best.

Who most influenced your skateboarding?

Definitely John Muldoon. I've skated with him for a super long time. We've always pushed each other and had the most fun skating together.

When and why did you start Hardflip.com?

I started it in like 1999 I think. I may have launched it in early 2000. There are two reasons I started it. The first is that Glen Jones used to put out a zine a long time ago and he put a picture of me in it doing a backside smith. I was so stoked to be in there.

Glen didn't know me at the time and it was the first time that I actually considered other people looking at my skating. Everyone likes to be acknowledged for what they do and I guess I wanted to have a local outlet that did the same thing. I've been skating in this town forever so I kinda know everyone and I'd like to think that it keeps us tight. The second reason was that I got a bunch of photos of Darren Navarrette skating with strippers. It was my first story. Full nudity and everything. Those pictures had to be on the internet.

What kind of response did it get?

It was ridiculous. Basically overnight I had shitloads of traffic and emails and all that. People from all these skate companies in California were emailing me, little kids from everywhere wondering what their boners were for, parents bitching about pornography.

It was crazy. Transworld accused me of stealing their logo. Not that I wouldn't have but at that time I hadn't even seen their logo yet.

How many visitors do you get to Hardflip. com?

Honestly I don't know. I stopped counting about a year ago. It's not a business so the numbers don't mean much to me. I have some ads on there but it's just to help out friends in the same way they help me.

Every so often I'll see what the hot sections are. It's usually the stupid video clips.

Frontside Air

Who do you think are MN's Most Influential?

Overall I'd say Dave LeRoux. Clint Peterson is making a name for himself and Nesser is rad as hell. The whole Iota team is sick but LeRoux changed the direction of skating. It's a long time ago now but he was one of the first switch skaters that was natural both ways. He had an SMA video part years ago where at the end it said something like ‘By the way, Dave LeRoux is regular foot'. It seriously blew people away. After that video he was without a doubt the most modern skater in the country. Justin Lynch was large in a different way. I also have to point at Joe from Fobia, Scott from Cal and the 3rd Lair crew. They've been the foundation for a long time.

Do you think art and skateboarding and music and skateboarding go hand in hand?

Absolutely. I guess first I'd say that the popularity of skating now sucks. Sure it's good for business and all that but it also eats away it's soul. I fucking hate the way it's used in commercials and all this extreme bullshit. Kids now play hockey, football and skate. It's very strange. The only reason I point that out is that people who skate have generally been some sort of outcast either by their choice or societies. I think it's a combination of creativity and energy that melds skating and arts. I notice it's thinning with popularity but under the surface it's still there. Skaters are some of the most creative groups of people there are. What's really interesting to me are questions like 'would you do a hard trick if no one was there to see it?' Or 'Would you finish a painting just to throw it away?' It's rhetorical of course but fun to think about.

Personally if you answer yes then you gain my respect.

What kind of mediums do you like to paint with?

I've only used acrylic paints. Sometimes I combine ball point pens, screwdrivers, pencils, whatever's around.

Do you paint a lot, or is it more of an occasional thing?

It's pretty occasional. I was a glassblowing major in college. Aside from skating it's the funnest thing I've ever done.

Some day I'll be doing it again but it's expensive as hell so I fill the time by painting or drawing or whatever. I feel like I don't have a choice about that stuff. I'm an elementary painter but doing it is somehow a release for me. I've got a spaz room in my house where it's messy all the time and if I feel the need I can run in and throw paint around.

What do you do for a job?

I'm the web master for City Pages.

How old are you?

30 How did you get interested in building websites?

I was working at a restaurant in Stillwater that wanted a web site. I lied and told them I could do it. I'd never even been on the internet at that point. But they paid me so I took the money I got (not much - $500 I think) and used it to pay people for information on how to do it. I really don't know much about computers but I'm smart enough to figure anything out.

What is your favorite terrain to skate?

Although there aren't any real vert ramps anymore I still consider myself a 'vert' skater.

I've lost 80% of my skills but we're all getting older. You can tell when you see me skate that I'm a super unnatural skater. I had to work on it a lot. Clint Peterson makes shit look so easy.

What do you think is harder, Vert or Street?

I can't compare them. I can say that skating is harder than the other so called 'extreme' sports. It's why they shouldn't be lumped together. The difference is small but it's that our feet aren't attached.

That one fact ads a completely different mental aspect to skating.

Of course a snowboarder is going to try and land a rodeo. He has no choice. Of course a fruit booter is going to try and land his queermo wheel grabbie grind. Bikes are gnarly but you're still holding on to it. Skating is hard no matter what you ride. People should skate a little of everything. It helps street skills to be able to ride vert and vice versa.

A lot of the older skateboarders from Minnesota skated more vert, and all the younger skaters skate street, Why do you think that is?

Street skating is just so much more accessible. I got addicted to the flow of vert skating. Something as simple as a backside air is the raddest feeling in the world. When I started there weren't really street pros. Gonz and Natas were just skating what they liked.

The street skaters were what was then called freestyle.

What was the first trick you learned?

Well, I did street skate for years at first so I learned ollies and I remember hearing rumors about people being able to flip their boards in mid air but it wasn't in magazines or anything yet but I learned kickflips pretty early. I can't do them any better now than I did then.

How was it dropping in for the first time on Vert?

Again you have to remember that things were different then. There was no such thing as a mini ramp. That hadn't been invented yet.

It was either vert or nothing. I'd watch these guys skate and they'd all drop in so naturally that's how I thought you had to start. I never even considered starting at the bottom. It was at Ramp City and I remember Nate Sheggaby made everyone stop and he said 'let this kid drop in'. I ate shit of course but didn't know that I should be afraid. It took a few times but I got it.

Indy

What are 5 things that distract you from skateboarding?

Good question. Number one would be Women. I was with a girl named Nadia who I loved very much. I was with her for five years and during that time I didn't skate much at all. It became second to her. Dooner calls those 'the dark years'.

Other than that there's the usual work, money, booze, drugs and family but they don't really distract me. They're kinda lumped together. I like to think of them as 'responsibilities'.

In the video game Tony Hawk Pro Skater 1, how do you think Minneapolis was portrayed?

You know, I always wondered why they picked Minneapolis. A that time we didn't have as much coverage as we do now.

I wonder if it was just a random Midwest pick to get sales up here to increase. Probably. It sure didn't look like the city I live in.

Who has helped the MN skate scene grow?

I think it's the guys who focus more on having fun. Seth McCallum is super fun to skate with. He's not abrasive, he's just skating. There are a lot of young skaters now that blow me away. It's rad to see Nesser, Seth and them helping them out. This isn't California so there's no reason for fucked up attitudes.

Where is your favorite place to skate?

Right now I don't have one. I'm on injured reserve for a few weeks. I smashed my face apart at the new 3rd Lair and then after a few weeks I went back and jacked my ankle. My favorite all time MN spot would've been PISS or the Oasis when the vert ramp was 44 feet wide and the two spines were hipped around it. That was fun as hell.

Where has skateboarding taken you?

I've traveled a lot and skated some amazing places. I used to go out east a lot & skate with my friend Nathan. We'd go skate with little Donny Barley and Judd Hertzler. I'd go to California once in a while or Texas but we'd stay around here most of the time. When we were younger it was a treat to go down to Omaha and skate. We'd hook up with Danny Mayer and Steve Berra and skate all day. I've been to parks in Europe, even Tahiti but didn't skate much. I love traveling.

Do you think you'll ever stop skating?

I'm sure my body will put a stop to it some day. I get aches a lot now but I have my own house so I got myself a whirlpool tub. I can sit in that thing after a session and my old bones feel a little better. I'm sure I'll be pushing around for many more years.

What is it about skateboarding that draws you to it?

It's the speed and danger I guess. It's relaxing to me to focus on just one thing. When I'm skating it's the only thing I'm thinking about.

When I'm sitting home I'm thinking a thousand thoughts at once. I feel neurotic. Now I've learned that if I start thinking about slamming or worrying about it then I stop skating right away. If you worry about getting hurt inevitably you will.

How has the MN skate scene grown since you started?

It's so much bigger now. But we've done a good job of sticking together. It used to be that you knew pretty much every skater. Honestly, the Madonna group was pretty big but still almost all the skaters knew each other.

That's impossible now. It's like a family tree. Minneapolis has always been kinda the Godfather that branches out to the other cities. Each community has their groups of skaters and if they're good enough the kids float up to the top.

It's rad for me to watch. A few years ago a guy emailed me telling me about this kid from North Dakota named Brian Heck. He sent me video clips and I was shocked. I wanted to help this kid out so I made a whole page for him with all these clips and soon everyone here was asking about him. I knew he'd be able to turn some heads. Of course he now rides for Iota and is doing very well.

How has skateboarding changed for you since you started?

I feel like I've lived an entire skateboarding lifetime. I started just having fun, spinning around in driveways. Then skating ramps and getting better.

Coming to Minneapolis to get to know and skate with the best skaters around. I started entering contests and all that. Dave LeRoux would flow me products from Santa Cruz until I got sponsored by Small Room.

Getting sponsored was the biggest deal in the world to me. It was my goal.

But then suddenly I wasn't having much fun. I was bitching at people, trying to video everything, I was afraid of contests, worried about making sponsors happy, all that shit. Then everything collapsed. I lost my sponsors, vert skating died and I went into a funk. But all the while I still skated and learned to forget about all the serious weight I put on myself. Now I'm back to spinning in driveways and I try and project what I've learned to the younger skaters around here. The lesson is not to take yourself too seriously.

Mute One Foot Off

How did you guys form?

Dave: That’s the worst question you could’ve asked. Jon: He’s not saying that because it’s a bad question, it’s just the history of this band is so convoluted.

Brian: Allow me to answer that question with a story. The story involves Pete Biasi who’s on parole in Wisconsin, for flipping over a college security guard. Pete: Probation. Brian: Sorry, he’s on probation in Wisconsin. I was playing in another band at the time, and he called me from the MN side of the border, he would drive here two hours to practice, and was like “Dude I gotta get back to Menonomie tonight, my car broke down I’m not supposed to leave the state”. Pete: And I gotta go to work at the plastic factory. Brian: And I gotta go to work at the plastic factory by 8 o’ clock at nite or something, can you come pick me up, and give me a ride, and like before the cops find out I’m out of the state. Before a cop stops and offers to help me and looks at my license and figures it out. So, I drove like all the way to the border and then like another hour or whatever to Menonomie and dropped him off. Pete: Then we formed Signal to Trust. We had a different singer at first, and then parted ways with Brandon, who was the singer, and then Brian joined the band.

That was like last May, not this last May but the one previous, so that pretty much brings us to now.

How is playing in Signal to Trust different than playing in previous bands?

Pete: Well even playing in Signal to Trust has changed, just as its gone along. It is just a little more relaxed I guess. We’ve all been playing together so long, kinda know how each other work and we are more open about offering different things up or trying new suggestions. Usually in other bands you have to get to that point, so there’s a lot of just figuring each other out and kind of testing your limits with the different members of the band and there is not really that now in the band.

Jon: Everyone has played in more than one band, so we kinda of know that everybody's different to there little idiosyncrasies, so we kind of know what to expect that way. This is the most, for me, the most people that have been involved in the creative process and its a different way of writing. When we get together and we just play until something comes out. Whereas maybe other bands we’ve been in, somebody else will come in with a song and play with the rest of the band and let them interpret it. We don’t have time to interpret anything really, because we get together and play and sometimes it works. I threw up my hands, just a couple of weeks ago and said “Does anyone here know how we write songs, cause if you do please tell me”. I’m really frustrated and then like that night we wrote a song. Like you have these little breakthroughs. Brian: I think it’s very much about knowing how not to piss each other off. What each others idiosyncrasies are and how to avoid pushing the right buttons. In some form or another we’ve all lived with each other, so we know each other intimately.

Who wrote the lyrics to Folklore?

Dave: Pretty much Brian wrote his lyrics and then the couple of songs I sing on, I wrote those lyrics. Brian: I sing on 5 of the songs, maybe 5 and a half and Dave sings like three.

Where did you get the inspiration for the lyrics?

Brian: When I was a kid my parents were into camping and fishing and outdoor activities. It’s something that took me a while to reinterpret, something that belonged to me and something they raised me to do. As I reinterpreted it, it became something I was interested in, in terms like, the fictional element and something I thought I was interesting to study and take part in, in whatever way I thought.

Will future songs follow the same song structure, no verse or chorus?

Brian: Well we just recorded last weekend and we did 3 songs that are, I think sort of interim between the last album and the next LP, which we have like 7 songs written for and its somewhat like a cross. We’ve started putting more chorusy type parts in, but still the songs are still somewhat abstract. The songs we’re writing right now have much more epic proportion, and maybe there not choruses, there more rhythmic and repetitive, and defy a chorus more. Jon: You get better at not stepping on one another's toes musically. Brian: I can’t write as many lyrics as I wrote for Folklore. Not repeating the same line ever gets really intense, and hard to remember. Pete: And Brian’s in school, he slept 3 hours last night. Dave: Jamming 30 syllabeles into like 4 measures. Brian: Another thing, I’m kinda of getting more interested in singing like, singing in a rhythmic way, with the music and less singing or talking my way through things.

When do you think the new LP will come out?

Jon: When someone gives us a bunch of money. Dave: We probably won’t even have enough songs to record an LP until next summer. Pete: It’s a ways off, it’ll probably be a year from now, or a year and 4 months. There’s a 4 month bumper zone from when you record it to when it actually comes out. Brian: The 7 inch is gonna come out in the spring and they’re putting out Folklore on vinyl and it’s gonna be a limited run of 300 with hand screened covers for it. Pete: If the record writes itself really fast then it could be sooner. It kinda depends, like if we don’t write a song for 7 months. It’s really hard to tell just how we do it, hopefully not more than a year.

Jon: Money is an issue too, it’s economically getting harder and harder to put out a record. I mean Tom, who does Modern Radio goes out on a limb for us every time.

It’s just really difficult, so you gotta be patient with that aspect of it. My point being, Tom is the only guy who does Modern Radio, it’s just him, but he’s in school so, he is kind of part of the process of putting out a record. We haven’t had anyone come along and offer to release our stuff, except this kid Colin, just came along and liked our band and offered to put it out on vinyl, part of me actually thinks... Pete: I don't think it was actually him. Brian: Yea, I think that wasn’t Colin. Jon: Oh it wasn’t. Brian: It was his friend, he said. Jon: The point is we we’re broke. Brian: We’re hoping someone offers to pay for it Jon: We want people reading this to give us a whole bunch of money.

Why did you decide to do two versions of the cover, one for tours and one for the release?

Brian: Well I guess technically because we couldn’t get the jewel cases by tour and I have school work to do. I said that if we can’t get them printed by tour, I’m just not gonna do them and I’ll do them when we get back from tour. We wanted the CDs in time, we wanted CDs to sell. I’m sort of a fan of handmade artwork and especially mass produced, but handmade work. I found all these great opportunities to go nuts and spend way more time than we should, handmaking like 100 covers. A friend of a friend of ours actually printed them. We assembled them after they were printed. Pete: It was pretty much a necessity in order to have stuff ready. Brian: I think it’s actually something that like, the next few things we’re gonna be doing, will be hand screened, and that’s not a matter of not paying for printing or not having designs done but actually handmade artwork is really beautiful and it lends a personal feel to it.

With Folklore only being an 8 track CD that come in just over 20 minutes, why did you call it a LP instead of an EP. Dave: I think there is some discrepancy on that, I would have never called it an LP. I don’t think its an LP. Pete: What are the criteria for an LP, I have to see official documentation. Dave: I’m sure there is no set rules. If I bought an 8 song cd that was 20 minutes, I wouldn’t think it was an LP. Jon: Was that 20 minutes Dave and Pete: It was like 24 Pete: I think it rides the cusp of being and EP and an LP, cause there’s 25 minute LPs out there. I don't know, that's a really good question. Jon: I’ll look it up. Pete: Yea, see what the internet has to says about EP and LP. Brian: Infact lets look up all our answers on the internet from now on. Jon: The internet has all the answers Pete: The internet says there is no answer.

A side conversation starts with someone asking how much the EP is selling for. One of the guys said 8, the other said9. John states that you should by the record from Modern Radio, and Pete says not to buy it from Cheepo Records. This turns into a conversation about stealing it from Cheepo. But don’t steal it get it from Modern Radio Most CDs you can burn to are 80 minute CDs. Why do most bands choose to 12 songs that fills up only half of that time.

Dave: I’ll take this one. I mean how many bands could you really stand 80 minutes of their music. Brian: I would follow that up with, I think a LP length, I don’t know sound wise, if I prefer vinyl to cds, but I really like listening to vinyl, cause there is a side break. I think listening to music in 15 to 20 minute portions is a much more digestible amount and then you have a rest and you flip it or change. As soon as a CD gets over 40-45 minutes, I start to tire of the sound. Jon: I think you have to be a certain kind of band, you have to be somebody, to have an 80 minute album, to have some kind of concept or continuity to it. Dave: Most bands put out 13 song albums with 3 hits and 10 songs of filler. Pete: I mean just because you can put 80 minutes on a CD, doesn’t mean that you should. Dave: Sorta like cloning, like dinosaurs, like Jurassic Park, like they were so obsessed with if they could. Brian: I think the one exception to that, would be Can. Their LPs are edited down to fit on a CD. Their songs are like 22 -24 minutes long each. Jon: Several of my favorite records ever are EPs. Its interesting that were talking about this because were trying to figure out to do the 7 inch.

Are you gonna do hand printed covers for the 7 inch then?

Pete: We hadn’t talked about it, there is 300 hundred of them. Brian: I think the idea of a 7 inch is to get it out there and make it special in other ways, like were batting around cover ideas right know. The possibility of fabric covers to paper to felt. Dave: Covers made out of sticky buns. Pete: With the record between it, put icing around the outside to seal it, so you’d have to take the record and wipe off all the carmel, ohh that’s fucking hot. Brian: That would be really great for the needle. Jon: I’d throw a brick through all of our windows if we ever did that. Pete: Yea dude, 4 bucks and you get 2 cinnamon rolls and a 7 inch. We’d have to get a big Coleman cooler to take on tour, to keep those buns fresh for 4 weeks.

Do you guys plan on going on tour again after the new LPs out?

Pete: We’re planning on it but we’re not planning it. Jon: It’s a really tough time to be on tour, practically, its winter, but Brian’s in school, I just started a new job.

Dave: I’m starting school. Jon: We’re all pretty financially strapped right now, I mean we’ll recoup, but its gonna take some time.

What do you guys do for jobs or school during the day?

Brian: I go to MCAD right now and I have like a year left and I work at a comic book store. Pete: I work with autistic kids doing behavior therapy. I have two kids that I work with now. Dave: I deliver pizzas. Jon: I’m an administrative assistant.

What does each member bring to the band?

Pete: Beer gut... Musically. Low frequencies. Dave: I bring the money, I pay for everything. Pete (to Dave): Loan Officer. Jon: We both pay for things, come on. Pete: Dave’s got the golden egg, I think Jon brings a real super strong rhythmic sense to the band, also like a super wider mental scope of music that punk rock or indie rock.

He’s the one guy in the band that’s had some kind of music schooling, so he has a different angle that he originally came from. I mean not that he didn’t play music before he learned it about it, but he still has that where we all just kind of were playing music, playing punk rock and sorta developed from that. That’s the one thing I can say that one member uniquely brings to the band. Jon: Pete and Dave, I think have known each other for a long time and have played together in a great incarnation of this band. Brian: Did you say Pete and Dave? Jon: Did I say Pete and Dave, I’m sorry, I meant Brian and Dave and they really, there’s a lot of interplay between the guitars and I think for that reason and even vocally sometimes, on Folklore, even though it may not have been intentional, there’s that kind of relationship. And Pete and I have known each other for a long time. So, you kind of got the rhythm section and the guitars and there will be times where we’ll be practicing and me and Pete kind of break off and discuss the rhythm section and Dave and Brian will work out the guitar. Dave: I have some idea on how other bands write songs, the 4 of us I think it’s become unconscious. A lot of time when your in practice, we will just start playing and a lot of times nothing comes out, but when they do, it’ll be things we don’t necessarily know what all of us is playing, but some how it works. I think that’s really interesting and sometimes magical. Pete: If we work on a song more than the original time we would spend on it, it’s trying to recreate something that we all accidentally did. Like we’re trying to work our way back to this one single part that we all thought was amazing, but nobody was really paying attention to what they were doing. Jon: Frequently you get a like a 50-50 deal where all of you may like one thing at one given time and other people might like certain things about that part of the song. It’s kind of a compromising for the sake of putting together two and then conversing the moment where it does come together and your all really jazzed about completing the song or some songs come out like in 5 minutes.

With any band you’ve been in before, have you ever called Radio K and requested a song?

Dave: No, I don't really listen to Radio K, not out of any dislike or spite, I just cant it in my car. Pete: I listen to it when I drive, but that’s the only time. Dave: Usually if I want to listen to music in my car, I will listen to a CD or a tape and if I want to listen to the radio, I’ll listen to talk radio Jon: I will say this, that’s interesting you asked that, cause somebody accused me of that at one point, by way of rumor or whatever. There have been times where I have called to see if they’re playing what we’ve been sending them, or if they got it, because I hear other people talk say “Oh I heard this on Radio K” cause I don’t listen to it either. Then my friends tell me they heard it. Were the kind of band that doesn’t have, when I did college radio, people would call up or hire promotional companies to call up and DJs and say did you get whatever I sent you and what are you playing off of it. I called Radio K once to ask that question and somehow it got interpreted that I was calling up to request my own music, and this is the second or third time somebody asked that. I’d say to that person, were a fucking small potatoes band. We don’t have people that we hire to call up and find out if our fucking records getting played. Sometimes we gotta call and find out ourselves because we don’t know what's gong on, we can only depend on what we've been told from people we know. I don’t listen to that station. I don't listen to the radio at all. Brian: Yea, I don’t listen to Radio K, ever, let alone call and make a request really of any band. Although sometimes I think I might be more informed about new music if I did listen to Radio K more often. On that subject, the thing that really bugs me, is this current wave of street teams. Especially small bands that are maybe trying to get bigger. I would imagine like having a team of people who your offering like merchandise in exchange for calling, not even merchandise but discounts on merchandise in exchange for calling Radio K and requesting your band is even more despising, than calling and requesting it your self. Dave: Taking advantage of kids when your at that age when you get excited about, when you start getting into music, and your really excited about it, and you want to know about the bands. When your 15 or 16, and the idea that, people in a band to who’ve had the same experience growing up, yet those kind of people would take advantage of that, I think is really disgusting. Its just a way for those kind of bands to market themselves cheaply Jon: If you want to market your band, that's just a different thing, that's not something that, I don't know how to market shit. Dave: I feel sorry for those kids because I really think its, those kids should be out handing out flyers, they should be buying guitars, or making zines or something. Its fucked up.

What bands do you enjoy playing with and what bands do you enjoy seeing?

Pete: Ten Grand, for both questions. Dave: As far as local bands playing? I think Ten Grand, we always have the best time playing with. Brian: I’m still really into Heads N’Bodies. Dave: Hopefully soon they’ll start playing out again one of these days. Jon: It varies, sometimes you bond with bands over musical reasons and personal reasons, sometimes over personal reasons and sometimes over musical reasons. Pete: I was honored to play with Sweep the Leg Johnny and Mike Watt. I was honored to play those shows and I would go see those bands even if I didn’t happen to be playing with them. There's lots of bands that were friends with and sweet bands, but then there is also bands that we like playing with. Like would kind of recognize whether its through your own experience, or whatever, you feel this way just to see a band and to be playing with is like “Oh my god, what the hell.” They make these songs that are just so amazing and they play so well together, it inspires you to throw it out, inspires me more than just going to another place and playing another show and that kind of thing.

What is in store for the future of Signal to Trust?

Pete: The 7 inch is gonna come out. Its like our version of the band operates on more of a grand sense. Brian: After we discover the last herd of unicorns and the cure for cancer, we’re going on tour to the moon. Dave: Were going to tour the satellites of Saturn. Pete: We’re gonna tour MIR. Brian: And were gonna take on the Dahli Lama, four on one. Pete: And show him what's up. Jon: We’re gonna play for the Dahli Lama. Brian: He has one of those double neck guitars, like he totally rocks because he’s omnipotent and shit. Pete: We met a couple of dudes, who live in Europe , that are really into our band, that set up tours. I think in the grand scheme of things, maybe we could go to Europe. We might sometime in the future future like past the 7 inch and our maybe tour next year and all that stuff. And playing a lot of shows. Jon: The point being when you network with people, the longer you start doing it, things pick up a little momentum if you keep it up, and that kind of been demonstrated by a lot of the bands we really like, Ten Grand have been around for 4 years now, you know the shit takes time. Dave: And were like, I think were starting to find that there is people that like our band, that always help when people like you. Pete: If people say they like your band, they want you to play more and sell more records Brian: Or they pretend to like your band because they think its cool, that works too.

6 Parks & 5 Days in Chicago Words by Jack Boyd Background photos by Nickie Kessel

Steve Steitz, Boardslide

Five Days We’re sitting outside of Casey’s woman’s house waiting for about two minutes before I feel the surge of sickness hit. Instant sweat and a watery mouth indicate that whatever is in my stomach is coming up and there’s no stopping it.

When Casey arrives, I’m standing van-side dry heaving over a small spit puddle...the results of a Blue Ribbon night. Pabst usually allows you to drink yourself senseless and at the same time still allow your body to properly digest and pass your food through. This makes for a puke fest, without the puke. I think I was more stoked than anything. Sorry guys, can’t drive. Me sick.

About a week before this scenario unfolded,local Duluth buff Ben Olson received a call from TrueRide. They had been in talks for some time about doing a more accurate portrayal of skate videos for use at their annual tradeshows, rather that cheap looking run of the mill grom footage shot on a windy Saturday morning with a Panasonic VHS camcorder. So with the promise of a meal ticket and a ride, Shades Productions grabbed some of the local Stacked heads and a bag full of Fonix gear and set out for Chicago on a week long park binge courtesy of TrueRide. Jake Hackfeld, Pete Larson, Steve Seitz, Diet Morrisey and myself would be handling the skating side and Ben would be manning the bail gun. The idea was to hit five of their best built parks, obviously located in and around the Chicago area. That gave us five days to get footage at six parks.

Steve Steitz, 5-0

Jack Boyd, Crooked Grind

The theme for the trip came from a Big Brother spoof pic, entitled “411 Chairs,” that Benjamin had ripped out and placed on the dash that morning. Ex: “411 cigs.

Pull the van over I need a pack of cigs.” Obviously, this is an observation that 411 has expanded its coverage to include about every subject know to man. Everything from shitty restaurant to grumpy ass gas station clerks was tagged with a “411” before being thrown into the conversation hole.

Before reaching Chicago, we took a detour to stop at the Four Seasons Skatepark in Madison. None of us had been there yet and everyone yearned to go, so go we did. Everything about this park was top of the notch. The front desk help, the skateshop, the locals and especially the layout. Cement ledges and a double set of stairs indoors? Hell yes.

So onward we pressed, or rather Jake did. He took the wheel since everyone else was being pussies. No one ever wanted to drive, especially in Chicago. That place is a zoo...Zoocago. Upon arriving we spent the night in the first dive that we could find, before setting up at the new spot for the remainder of the stay.

Our first day of filming we realized an obvious problem...five skaters and one filmer. Ben faced constant peckering at the skaters’ hands to “get this” or “come over here.” He may feel like a hot shot at his editing bay, but he knows who’s really boss out in the real world. On this first day, we decided to get two parks done. I think the majority of us were expecting less of the parks. If your familiar with most of Minnesota’s parks, thing are usually under three feet and have goofy set-ups. Not out here in Richie Rich, IL. They have some cash to throw around so they got the best set-ups that could be afforded. Tons of room and a shitload of variety. So if your park sucks, get more money.

Each day consisted of pretty much the same routine. Wake up around 10:00, see the cold October out the window, go back to bed for another hour only and be re-awakened to the smell of the Red Bull and cigarette breakfast that a few of the crew took a liking to. Then we would hit whatever park was on the list for the day and stay until the locusts swarmed from their schools and cluttered the course with their gobbles and hoo-haws. After fighting traffic and finding the hotel again everyone would pair up and spilt to separate eateries. Since Case and Jake actually care about their health, they would usually find some civilized place nearby and return with stories of grandeur and satisfaction. Ben and I found a mutt of a take0out joint right next door to the liquor store, so we kept to that basically the whole stay, Steve and Pete would be content with sitting in a cloud of second hand smoke chomping on Funyons, Snickers and whatever scrapes were thrown their way. You would think that their bodies would eventually filth out and quite cooperating with them but everyday they effortlessly contributed to the footage pile.

One of the things most looked forward to during the day was the hotel hot tub. There is nothing like a good sulk in warm, bubbly water. We pretty much owned that thing too, until the weekend fell and the whole place was taken over by about five thousand kids, no doubtedly peeing and farting at will.

It stayed brown for the remainder of our stay. But that’s what chlorine is for...

swimmer’s ear 38

The only downfall of this trip came when we lost Pete about three days in, to a sharp box corner.

It’s bad enough just getting stabbed, but then having to feel the cold steel scrape your bare and exposed knee cap is a whole other story. I had never seen a knee cap in person before, and though it looked like a fine cap, I can live without ever seeing one again. Between the “aaahhhhs,” “fucks” and “shits” Pete described his wound as being “gnarles in charge.” How he happened to think of Scott Baio of the Charles in Charge fame in a time of pain and grief is beyond me, but I think everyone shared an ass shaking laugh on that one.

Eventually our time came and we had to pack it all in and head home. We planned to stop at the Four Seasons, Milwaukee but that stop ended up being uneventful due to the eminent park burnout everyone was facing.

We opted for hitting the streets instead and found out quickly that the spots there rip. Go to Milwaukee. Then after catching wind of the Zero premiere that same night we stuck around and were greeted by super amped up lady rapping on the van window. Turns out her son was starring in the video, the first part nonetheless.

It’s usually not until you get home that you realize how fun a trip was.

The Chicago Cluster is definitely TrueRides’s best built parks to date.

Beggers can’t be choosers, so it’s max stokage when you get to roll with a crew of your good friends on someone else’s budget. Special thanks to Uprise in Chicago and Upfront in Botavia for they’re friendliness. Not to much and not to little, just right. These are what real skateshops are supposed to be like, so stop in if you find yourself lurking around the city.

411 props to both establishments. And 411 The End to all of you...

Pete Larson, Frontside Flip

rob norland When did you start In the w ork s?

Inthew ork s w as established in fall of the Rom an em pire as the com m on folk stuggled to tak e control of the patriarchal oppression of the ruling class. So w e have been around for a w hile.We opened in Jan. of 1 999, 4 years ago.

Why did you start in the w ork s?

My friend, Aaron, and I started Inthew ork s to give Mank ato sk aters a place to go locally to get a sk ateboard. At that tim e there w as no place to get sk ateboards in Southern Minnesota. I'll have to give props to Supa Stix Mank ato's first 'core sk ate shop, unfortunately it's ow ner Kevin Thom pson m oved aw ay and closed the shop only after being open an entire sum m er. Aaron and I later parted w ays, but he still rem ains m y friend.

What w as the response w hen you first opened?

We opened up shop inside of the 2 year old Woodw ork s sk atepark , Thus the nam e In The (w ood) Work s. We set up the shop inside the m aintaince closet of the park , it w as sm all, and som e of us jok ingly called it "In the Closet" instead of In the Works. The response w as favorable, k ids w ere com ing from all over to sk ate the park because it w as free and open all of the tim e. When they show ed up they w ere stok ed to find a place they could get a pair of shoes, replace a brok en board or get som e clothes. We had a lot of loyalty tow ard the shop, but dark forces tried to invade our territory and tak e over, change loyalties & put us out of business, but w e prevailed because w e are the good guys. Thanks Mankato skateboarders.

Why did you sell In the Work s?

I guess it w as tim e to m ove on, take a step out, take another risk...so m y w ife and I m oved out here to California so she could pursue acting and I a career in the sk ate biz.

Did you get alot of people asking to buy it, why did you choose Regan?

I had alot of people looking into it, some super serious, some just looky lou's, but in the end I felt comfortable with Regan because he is young, totally into skateboarding and was looking to make a career out of skateboarding. Regan's committment to skateboarding really caught my attention when I first saw him. He was driving up from Iowa to the Woodworks(now called The Chesley Roller sport facility) every weekend and skating all day, non-stop. He was actually one of the first few people I installed on to the shop's skate team. We had several serious long talks before I was even thinking of selling the shop, so I knew he would be right for the job when the time came to sell.

Who were some of the skateboarders that influenced you?

Skaters that influence me are Regan, John Peitz, Dom, Steve Davis, Skipp, Chris P, all of the young kids out there like Joe & Dan Williams, John A, & Andy. I have tremendous respect and love for all of Twin Cities brothers, Scott at Cal Surf, Pete at Fobia, John at Cal Surf, Steve & Mark and the 3rd Lair guys, Ryan Hansen, & Chad Benson.

How long have you been skating?

I started skating in 1985. I was influenced early by Scott Tuffte and Jeff Schnobrikt(sp?)because Jeff liked my sister. Those guys would come over and do boneless' over each other in the street and looked so rad doing it! After Back to The Future came out skateboards became easier for me to get and thats when I became committed.

I’ve heard of alot of skaters move out west and get a job at the skatedistributions (giant, deluxe, etc...) is it pretty easy to get a job in that industry?

It's not super easy , but if you know someone it can be pretty easy. I had a few connections through the shop, so I used those. A few years ago it was easier because skateboarding was booming, but now skateboarding is scaling back a bit, so it's not as easy.

How is where you are now, different than Mankato?

I live in Long Beach. It's definately different because of traffic, the mass of people, more and diverse cultures. I love it out here.

There was never a period when I was adjusting because I had been living and breathing California skate culture nearly all of life. It kind of preped me for living out here. It's funny too, that you could see a skater on the street and you are like,"hey there is a skater over there! Cool.", but then you look at him and he doesn't have any of the tell tale signs of a true skate culturally driven skateboarder. It's funny becuase they are just using it for transportation. I guess I've changed because I don't get excited about seeing another skateboarder out skating on the streets anymore.

Do you miss the Minnesota Winters.

No. What do you miss that you don't have in California?

Friends,Family, getting around without lots of traffic.

Do you ever see pros at Giant?

Yah. It's sick, because most of them are super cool. We have a skatepark here at Giant and they come by all of time. It's like a dream come true. I'll do a little name dropping now , I really respect these guys now that I've met 'em. Ben Gilley, Tosh, Jeremy Wray, Kenny Hughes, Bill Pepper, Linsey Robertson, Lance Mountain, Neal Blender, Svitak, Agah, Hensley, Rob Gonzales, Chad TimTim, Cairo, Stephen Attardo, Justin Reynolds, Kenny Reed, and of course Mike V. These guys have always shown repect to me and all they come in contact with here at Giant, much love.

What do you do at Giant?

Sales Representitve for the Midwest and So Cal. If In The Works didnt exist, Do you think it would be easier to start a skateshop in california, or mankato?

Definately Kato, Cali is way saturated.

What do you think when people say that you were a influence on them because"he practically brought the scene to Mankato"?

I feel humbled, because all I really did was skate.

How has skateboarding changed for you, since you first started?

I love the way skateboarding has gone. It's all about progression. These days skateboarding progression means taking a look back at what was important in skateboarding in the past. I like the fact that things are going tech'r and bigger , but style and personality has become realy important lately. Just look at Tony Trujilo skater of the year for Thrasher, he isn't super tech , but he has passion and style that skaters are noticing now, I like that.

If someone asked you "what is skateboarding" how would you answer them?

"Shredding and having fun" How do you think In The Works Compares to other shops in mn?

Intheworks fits in there somewhere. Intheworks is skater owned and run, so you'll never get anything else but pure skateboarding from it. I have much respect and love for all of the other MN skate shops that putting back into their skate scenes, becuase that's what the business is all about in the end.

Seth McCallum, Feeble Photo: Michael Stenerson

Neil Erickson, Bluntslide Photo: Michael Stenerson

Fike, Lipslide Photo: Michael Stenerson swimmer’s ear 46

Den Davey, Crooked Grind Photo: Michael Stenerson

swimmer’s ear 49

Sam Jacobson, Kickflip Photo: Michael Stenerson swimmer’s ear 50

Dan Jackson, Crooked Grind Photo: Benji Meyer

Steve Nesser, Boardslide Photo: Benji Meyer

9487 Polaris Lane North Maple Grove, MN 55369 SwimmersEarMag@aol.com

the e n d .

Ryan Leege Photo: Michael Stenerson

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