DL WOW Meeting and Disruptive Leadership in Recruitment

WOW MEETING AND DISRUPTIVE LEADERSHIP IN RECRUITMENT TRANSCRIPTION – WOW MEETING AND DL

1

D2 – P3 Wow Meeting and Disruptive Leadership

I would like to well the Dream Team for their continued support that I am getting for running campaigns, at the moment, Joe come up and just check successful coach magazine what are we need in there what do not need in there, um the for a while it used to be that you know I would chase you guys, and now you guys are chasing me for like what content do you need? And the results are obviously showing we are on track to do three really great months in a row. I am really excited about it. So thankyou awesome, it’s really cool.

Applause Can I do a huge wow? I’ll do two really obvious wow’s, the first really obvious wow is for the amazing Sharon Pearson. Um, delivering the most profound training I’ve ever experienced.

Yeah?

And constantly challenging us to take our thinking to another level, and Super heaven Yes! Being there. And a huge wow to the entire team who have just completely wowed my pants off.

Laughter But this is how it’s done, this, this this is what we all dream, and it’s just amazing. Thank you guys.

Applause Prize prize prize Laughter Noises Laugher Tish, I’ve got a wow for you, everything here is an absolute reflection of you and uh, the love and the wow that you bring to us on our birthdays and our Wednesdays, on every morning so absolute reflection of you.

Applause I would like to wow Tracey, for um supporting me in the hiring of the new Marvels team and for getting everything turned around so quickly and making it a reality for them. Almost instantly so it’s great we have got that system up and running now we can just keep finding really really high quality people so I second the wow Thank you for supporting me with that

2

Awesome Laughter I’ve got a wow for Joe, and the quality of the questions that you’re asking. Um, you’ve grown so much and the questions that you pose on Facebook what you guys are learning, you’re always asking E questions now as opposed to going back to where you are asking a lot of I questions. Now it’s all about… yeah now it’s all about what’s your thinking where you’re rocking where you want to go, what you think you can do, so, really really good.

Applause who has Laughter Who has consistently improving um learning and growing every single morning that we have our meetings constantly challenging himself to really chunk up to the E and stretching and growing that muscle, and it’s really really showing it’s awesome.

Applause Laughter One, for Joe again, for the attention to detail, and the care in everything that you do, and the time that you spend to see how we can improve what we already do. That’s my first wow.

Applause And the second wow is kind of an obvious one, for Cass, for going above and beyond any time any of us need anything and she’ll be doing something and instantly she’ll be like ok like what do you need how can I help? And it’s just incredible and even to take care of like you should’ve seen that coming you’re determined to stay, until they are taken care of. Thank you.

Applause Yes, and, this is for the wow team, Laughter Particularly Darcy and Matt, it’s absolutely amazing to see you guys, when I think there’s like nothing more than you can step up and do, you just step up and do it. so now the new thing at the moment is really supporting the Marvels team, and taking it to a whole new level and just the joy that I see it’s not a task, it’s not a mission for you it’s just like how can we do this? How can we do this better? How can we support you? And how can we make this rock? And you just embrace the innovation and change every time.

Applause Ah my wows for Mary-Anne, cos she’s so awesome. And um, fantastic, and uhhh my phones ringing.

Laughter

3

Can we pause?

Laughter Mary-Anne’s beautiful spread today, Amazing And Janet I don’t know who contributed so if you guys can do that one Yeah I’ll wow to Dee, well that was part of your celebration just to bring us all together we had a massive feast of homemade food before. We had risottos and soups.

It was so good So amazing And just the sheer talent of chef’s we have in this company.

Laughter Find the skills that your company needs.

Laughter So that’s more awesome Applause I have a wow and I think she’s run away cos her phone rings like Sam’s does, but for Fiona, um, Fiona has outstanding results now, consistently for the last, it’s quite a long time now anyway, and she’s just done that you know whether it be with new people in the team, whether it be alone, and she’s just absolutely rocking, creating a new environment she needs to generate results so that’s amazing, it’s great to see.

The level of certainty that she’s been bringing.

Yep She’s just like a machine, like at the moment she was on a mission, brilliant to see.

Applause That one was for you. Thanks!!!

I came in just in time to say thank you Laughter Did you have a wow for Cliff? If you’re not on the phone for a second I do, I have a wow for I think Amanda it’s yours, just for how everyone is really embracing helping our team and a wow for watching, I know some of you we’re here last week in Ultimate Influence, and just watching how you guys are loving how we served you in the

4

beginning, for me this is the biggest privilege in the world, is to be able to have these conversations with outstanding people and help you get started. And now to see that you’re learning it, and you’re gonna pay that forward and do that with other people, to me that’s just, yay. Tick. Pay it forward.

Applause.

I’ve got a wow, I’ve been able to spend a whole week with the TCI team and it’s been an absolute pleasure and I just want to thank every one of you, um, you’ve brought me in as one of your own, and I’ve been able to ask as many questions and thank you so much for all of your time. It’s been great.

Applause Did Mary get wowed properly?

Yeah But she’s really cool today Yes, well you can finish it So I wanted to wow you for bringing awesome culture, and, for the birthdays and stepping up and give so much and provide so much in and you take such good care of us it’s phenomenal.

Applause It says mike Staples Murmuring…..

So, I have a wow.

Laughter Those in the middle of the table, because she didn’t want us to make a fuss, and didn’t want to mention it, so what I’m not gonna do is wow Carlia, for being kind enough to send that along. It’s not wow Carlia at all for sending those along as a thank you to us.

I’d love to wow Carlia for sending us these things.

Laughter\applause I have another one. I have another wow for SP, for um we just the way that every time you notice a challenge or notice that as students need something or our team members need something, it’s like as soon as we’ve noticed it, it’s resolved and there’s an amazing new way of taking care of it within twenty four hours so, we notice that the team needed just a bit more guidance a bit more structure, so Sharon wrote a forty nine page booklet to help.

Within twenty four hours. So, it’s about the just there’s as soon as you notice the challenge it’s like alright now resolve it, and that just thank you for being a model of excellence on that.

Applause

5

I have a wow.

Laughter I have three wows actually, three wows, one of them goes to Kyle, for the way that I’ve seen you this week and last week, going with a phone and just walking around helping out the Marvels and everything and just curiosity to continue to grow, and learn and help out, it’s just been wonderful so wow to you for that.

Applause I have another wow to Glam, cos Glam and I had conversations that have been happening over there so Glam about that thing, and she’s like yeah got it. So I need it by, yeah tomorrow, cool yes. It’s just been wonderful to have that support from you and the level of care that you bring, yeah so thank you.

Applause.

Third one, goes to Tara, Tara has been in the Marvels, Tara, so Tara but um, she’s been driving conversations in being part of our culture you know wherever she can just bringing like things that we can talk about and everything and bringing all that value to the team, so yes. And she’s not from the office. So it’s wonderful to see how from being from like all the way from NSW right? But she is doing that every day.

Applause I’ve got a wow, I want to acknowledge Karen, for all the amazing posts you’ve been putting on Facebook, being an advocate for all of SP’s awesome methodologies and models.

There she is And sharing them with such certainty And consistency Awesome, thank you so much, you make such a difference.

Laughter Applause Ah this is for Tish and Janet as well, um, thankyou Tish for being very patient with our little plays on the Facebook. After knowing that strategy, and thank you for Janet at the Ultimate influence who actually came up to me and said, thank you for the way your actually maintaining the community on the Facebook. And I really appreciated that personal touch from both of you. Thank you very much wow!

Applause Laughter I’ve got a wow for Kevin, and your contribution to the so far, gave back to us going to you today. So yeah Awesome

6

Applause My wow is for Darcy and Elissa, Mary-Anne and for Kyle and for Tracey and for anyone else that’s been helping with the recruitment process at the moment with the wow team. Um, I’ve been able to you give you the trialees a moment and you’ve been helping me challenge them on the values and the standards and you’re upholding the standards with me, which is fantastic. And it’s awesome that we are all getting involved cos it’s not just you know my decision or someone else’s decision like it’s our team and you are all doing it together. And it’s yeah thank you it’s fantastic.

Applause I have a wow, um on behalf of the um, the guys in the room to the TCI team, to allow us to experience you’re wow meeting.

Applause I have a wow for um, Tacci, she’s I think she’s on a phone call, yes for delivering outstanding results on phone calls like every month. Even the last one she hit seventy one, and Laughter I don’t want to do the other joke, so but there’s a huge difference like when I joined TCI, it was 152, if I remember correctly and now it is 70, so that’s like a huge huge difference in value Applause.

I’m going to wow straight back to you Sacander, cos without you’re and Junes support Acri wouldn’t be able to do what she does so effectively and efficiently, her rapid growth that you have shown to this company has been fantastic.

Applause.

I would like to thank um the participants of us inside the room you guys here and allow us to grill you with questions. Thank you and also, for all my counterparts in the room, to keep up always with my questions. Lots of questions, and thank you Sharon for answering from her heart, and authentically. In the heart I hear messages, thank you Applause And to all the team who I don’t see and don’t know, you’re supporting I think this culture thank you Applause I’ve got a wow, another one, for Cas, for such large growth and also driving innovation, like if I remember Cas when she first came here, and I was training her in the wow admin job, and now that I’m developing questions, she’s not just giving me answers to the administration questions but actually helping me innovate the new systems for Well done Cas Applause

7

I was planning for a break, so I could wow Teega. Because the questions coming up and the innovations assessments and cohorts, and getting out there and fix everyone’s so we can develop a system and continue to work forward Applause I got a wow it’s a really obvious one we haven’t done it yet but the wow goes to Joe Paryne, and to Deigo, and to I think Matt helped and Pheona helped, company record and the history personal powers, number of, what are we up to?

17, 18 I got 2 more We gonna crack twenty or twenty one enrolments for one personal power award. And it’s a huge team effort. Goes to Joe in Dream getting people in the room, Kyle writing the study to make sure they turn up, Diego in the room learning the sales strategies, Vanessa calling everybody to make sure they turn up I’m wowing them cos they want …

Laughter Awesome from everybody thank you.

Applause I have a wow.

Laughter My wow is for Alyssum, um, in this company she is the Who? Laughter um, the example of living the values in our company, um like in our team especially as a role model like for myself, um, you’re example of delivering wow of taking on feedback of giving feedback of self-discipline of um you’re often the first one here you’re often the last one to leave so, yeah. A really good example.

Applause.

I have another wow that Peta reminded me of. Well in case anyone doesn’t know it was Casses one year, anniversary here yesterday.

Wow And um, it is really amazing to see how much you moved around within the company, how much you embraced everything that’s come at you and still managed to do it with a smile.

So, This is why we don’t have a job description One year….i think it’s been three or four different rolls, At least

8

Laughter Good on yah Cass congratulations Applause Love to give a big wow to SP for last week’s amazing presentation or delivery this week’s amazing delivery again, back to back is phenomenal, um you’re generosity to share so openly and transferringly, and then to create the products that we can then go forth with on the spot for us is thank you.

Applause My wow is for Diego, over the last couple of months His so cute His taken everything he does to the next level, and it’s been such a journey to be able to walk along side you and see the man you are today, yet I can’t wait to see the man will be tomorrow and beyond. You are just absolutely extraordinary so.

Applause Any other wows? Or are you ready to go and learn some stuff?

Laughter Applause Give me some of that vanilla slice (Music playing) So what did you guys think? Talk to me.

Wow. Yeah please Karen.

Well doing an activity like that, it reinforces the culture and acknowledges people, it feeds the culture It does………. and they drive it. Yeah?

There was so much gratitude there as well and I just loved how everyone was really there for each other as well.

Yeah really important good. Yeah?

It’s even more than that It’s so much more than that.

They languaged exactly how the person contributed to that culture it’s not just you know you rock

9

You did a good job. No. no. That never gets said that would be weird. You did you’re job; no it’s more than that awesome. What else? Yeah?

It’s like, there was something for me there was something really profound going on, just now. But also something really simple about just the human spirit, being able to just live in it’s space, free of B**** shit and whole lot of fear and judgement and crap, there was just an authentic love in that space, that enables people to just be the best people that people are, and just beautiful, I was just …just beautiful Wow who was moved by it? And it’s all driven by them. They do the whole thing The consistency of the apart from being here it’s never about corporation, and that was the extension of what we saw today, that no one’s ever too busy to be grateful to show gratitude compassion and it’s down last night what am I doing for me to get me through what I have to do in my role, and even if you think you kind of trying to be on the self. Um, and I never felt at all like this.

Yeah good. Good reflection yeah Onto what Matt said earlier, um, if your experience I mean if that’s the closeness the connection the comradery, experience in a team why you would want to be anywhere else?

Alone Laughter What are you gonna do on your own? Why would I do this? Alone!!! That would be awful.

I couldn’t imagine doing this alone. Wow. What else? What else?

It’s like a privilege to learn while you work Yeah, yeah and giving them so for those of us who are part of the company we know who’s getting wows and who hasn’t for a while, and it’s good to see a couple of names there and wasn’t it Des? A couple of names there haven’t been in much? You can tell they are starting to shine and I’m sitting there going they’re getting it. That’s really good to see. It’s awesome, really awesome, and all the wow’s are always just spot on, they’re fantastic.

Yeah.

For me it’s just to get another reference, shows you the possibilities that know as a leader you sometimes like to see it before, believe it before you see it just to have a reference it’s like that. This culture.

That’s what we’ve done it for, so glad it was today. So glad it wasn’t yesterday. When it wouldn’t of had the context of CAM and the focus we put on the P, so you can see people do come first here, but it’s everything that happened before that, made that statement possible.

And that reminds me of a quote by Margaret who was an anthropologist, which she says never doubt what a small group of citizens or how a small group of citizens can change the world cos indeed that’s all that ever has.

Yeah I love that

10

You can see it in that; it’s just a small group of committed people that are making significant impact.

Very cool. Yeah?

Yeah and to notice the values in others means we have to notice it within ourselves. So maybe in rewarding others for the behaviour that we want to see, or live, but we can’t do that without first acknowledging that’s in us as well.

So what we search for we find.

Yeah.

So, the story of how that began. It looks, that’s the outcome, of five years, of concerted effort we’ve have it that good for how long? I’m I’ve just been like that since I came back, I’m pretty much, or just after? I think we probably, were we doing well when you arrived?

Yeah So it’s been over twelve months now Yes Doing well. It took years of me trying different ways of getting to the point we’re the team drives, wows. And notices it, so when we first began, which none of you know about, I would try to do a wow meeting and there would be silence for the meeting. It began with that. And I’d say, come on guys you gotta have a wow. Yeah, I’ll think about it, I’ll think of one for next time. Come on Sue-Anne you gotta have a wow. Aahhhh I just think everyone’s doing really well. It was so exhausting. But I knew what I was heading for, I don’t know how I knew I never saw it anywhere, I just knew I had this dream of how I thought a great culture could be. Cos that’s how I wanted to be in the culture, I wanted to be wowing people, and sharing the wows and sharing the love and making everyone feel great, so, f**** it I’m going for that. And that meant pretty well everyone had to get replaced. Because I was hiring who I was ready for at the time, but I wasn’t hiring for where we were heading. Doesn’t mean I fired anyone. Everyone goes when you step up. Who’s not wanting to step up? That’s inevitable. The moment you step up you leave the, they just do. Guys just trust me it’s gonna happen. You leave people behind, they go hide for a certain level of growth and experience and you change the growth and experience they are not wanting that, they can’t match that, they can’t get it, they can’t see it, they can’t fight for it they can’t defend it, they don’t understand it. so this is you’re seeing five years of concerted effort so that now whether I’m here or not, it wouldn’t even occur to me to need to be here I’m very rarely there for wows. That’s what’s happening every Monday morning at 8.30, and every Wednesday usually at 2.30. That’s just too consistent. Open the week with wow’s and intentions, Wednesday cos every other company calls it’s hump day, we call it wow day, everyone wow’s. but you need to appreciate and maybe this isn’t making any, adding any value, what it took to get to that, you are seeing a lot of the results of, the persistence. And until the outside world match my delusion, I kept going. And until this match my delusion I kept going. It took the day I saw people wearing boas, I kept going.

It had to be that, I had to have that environment I didn’t have that. I used to get judged by students if we rang the bell. Now we have people insisting on ringing their own bell, and coming and telling us they want us to dance or sing, we send videos of our dancing or our singing to them when they rock, you know everything we’re doing now, but it wasn’t like

11

that. That’s the journey you need to go through, so how do you know you are on track?

Just notice what you’re environments doing when you do something. How do they respond to it? How do they react to it? Do they do that with you or without you? That tells you how you’re doing. In the beginning there we’re no boas, dancing and ringing the bell was a big deal, and bitched about by some of our community, and, the wow’s were just driven by me. To the point where it was so easy to say this is too hard, maybe I should give up. And I thought no, maybe I should get a team and be the person ready for a team that would drive that themselves, is this helping guys?

Agreement Cos I don’t want you seeing all this and thinking wow! This is just so awesome, we gotta have that. It’s not gonna be that, you gotta call you’re first wow meeting you are just gonna get stared at. Why are we doing this? Why do we need this? Bu what if you don’t have a wow? Yeah I can’t think of anything. Can you ask me next week? We literally went through a stage last year, we’re team leaders had to go around for two days beforehand reminding people it was wow, and to think of a wow.

Wow Laughter I had a stage, to get this really where it is, where I had to nag the team leaders to go remind their teams, to think of a wow. That’s how determined I was, that we’d have this culture.

You guys get this?

It’s the wow’s rewarding being others focused.

Yes. Yeah. It is all about others focused. It is compassion, and curiosity. You will notice a wow if you are compassionate towards others and notice others and if you are curious about what they are up to. The fact that they are all wowing different departments means that they are paying attention to and attending to what’s going on. It’s the only way that’s possible. Well it wasn’t like that, it was self-focused. So that’s, you’re just seeing an accumulation of a lot of many years of determination. Wow it does get hotter in here if you just push it up one degree doesn’t it? Diego, could you put it back and just disregard me the next time I touch with that, like the next time I go near it, slap me.

Laughter Laughter So now what we’re gonna do it is we are gonna go for a little longer and I want to link that to recruitment. So how do you have that? And I want to do some role plays if we could, I’d love to get some role plays on the video, of how I interview, and I probably should have Glam here as well. Glams so busy, yeah.

I can go and chat to her and see.

Can you use the intercom?

Yes. Laughter

12

Could you give it a go?

Yeah I will Yeah, if you wouldn’t mind, if she’s unavailable maybe Kyle, I totally dig it, but see how we go. So I tend to buddy up with someone if I can, in recruitment, because I think recruitment is seriously smoke. To get good people there’s a lot of smoke and mirrors, there’s a lot of moving pieces, and it’s an emotional decision, it’s subjective no matter how objective you try to make it, and, psychiatric testing does not test for cultural fit, there is so much to consider, in the journey of having a conversation. First instincts are not always right. That’s the first thing you must know. Your first instinct is not always arcuate, discount it, even if it’s a strong inkling, just at least give them that second chance cos not everyone makes a great first impression in an interview. So please allow them the courtesy of the respective of a second chance if you’re first instinct is no way. And I’m glad I’ve done that, a number of times. Generally my first instincts pretty true, but I have learnt enough now enough hubris to know not always right, there is something there. Recruitment is not a popularity contest. It is not who is likable. If you’re in interviewing, you’re hierarchal personality type you’re gonna like them, but generally you shouldn’t hire you’re personality type, cos you already there, so you’re just hiring yourself and one of you should go. So, you hire someone who’s not necessarily an easy match for your personality type. If you’re a D, you don’t need to hire another D in that department for example, makes sense. Ah yeah?

With the profiling 32.52 that’s a great thing about the Meta Dynamics profiling, where you devise we’re you’re at naturally I think so, and that is the goal that is going to be criminalise will be an accurate cultural reflection. That’s what we’re heading for. Any luck?

Not really Not really She will try to come soon Yeah I entirely appreciate it, what about Kyle? His still on the phone?

His still on the phone Nope, yup. Ok. We’ll cope; just imagine I have my backup playing here. Now, I have a young person with me, not that I’m not young and I know you’re about to say that, Encouragement words lol Thank you! It was the first thing you were thinking. That I have a younger, person.

Nah that’s better Laughter So I wanna see how they respond to serious straight faced questions, cos I’ve taught my cohorts how to do this, how they respond to straight faced serious questions from very young looking people, cos I wanna see how an older, I wanna see if they’re old heart or young heart. Cos old heart will keep looking at me, so literally I’ve had the situation we’re Kyle’s asking a question? And they kept staring at me. It’s awesome, tells you everything,

13

they can’t cope with young people telling them what to do, and we have no hierarchy on feedback so that’s just pressed every button they’ve got. Or during the, or during the interview, they’ll say, so, they’ll talk to say Kyle or to Glam, definitely Kyle cos he looks 16…

Laughter ‘So what’s you role here?’ And Kyle and I, we don’t look at each other, we know, they are trying to figure out, why this youngster would have such an authority in the interview. And, so that, so they are just cultural pressures we’re placing in an interview, that very quickly reveal, capability to handle our culture. And it’s important to do that and that’s why it doesn’t take days and weeks and months to figure this out. You can easily press somebody’s button if you’ve got a 21 year old who looks 16, asking you a question about how well you handle feedback. Can you just see some of them just thinking …not from you arsehole.

Laughter Just see it, it’s so revealing. Um, then what you want to do, is you definitely want to ask the question, ah I’m trying to make sure I’m being a bitch enough, you’re looking environmentally for how they respond to in terms of ego, and um humility, now the moment you say your or you’re not so you need to be careful with this, so my apologies to the poor English language you hear and what I intend with this. I do appreciate the moment when you start selling how humble you are you’re not. I get that. But, you start looking for, how they respond to questions that are very easy tells for egos, so for example this question. We’ve already done it earlier today ‘so what do you think of feedback?’ mm so I need you to see what I do, we see this a lot, ‘yeah,’ they just told you everything.

Agreement Back off. They’re body language, they literally swing back cos, they know they are supposed to come up with a cool answer right now. And the coolest they can do even though they know all that, the people who aren’t a match will tend to say things like ‘yeah, as long as it’s constructive criticism’ then you follow it up with a question like this ‘how open are you to feedback?’ and this is really cool cos I’ll give you an example of the contrast, this is what one person did, who will never work for us. ‘So how open are you to feedback?’ ‘How open do you think you are?’ the question was very open. ‘How open do you think you are?’ ‘Yeah, yeah, I think I’m really open to it I guess sometimes it’s hard to get people to get it’ clicking?

So what’s they’re definition of an open mind? Other people accepting there ideas. So if we could just role play with someone so you guys can just see it come to life. Can I role-play with someone? This is yeah? TV? Aahh engineer. Yeah. You gonna double guess.

Laughter So tell me what’s your, how do you think you handle feedback?

I think feedback, what would it be from a perspective of to know where my for me Ok, what do you mean to serve the other person better?

I’m a leader, and if I get feedback from other people I don’t know their position You’re hired. I’m in love.

14

Laughter That’s the best answer I’ve ever got. And I’ve never had that answer in an interview. That is so awesome. Wow. Is that what you say? Is that what you believe? That rocks, you rock. You can’t take praise either.

Laughter Wherever you are going in the company it’s awesome.

Laughter With a boa, pink boa. What a great answer, ‘I seek feedback cos I know it serves the other person?’ that’s like the slam dunk gold stamp version, no more prize of answers. It’s just so good. That’s not what I usually get. You gave me nothing to play with. Yes. Awesome.

Kyle and I have so much trouble not looking at each other. We go yeeeeaaaahhhhh.

Laughter Yeah, so can I ask you to role play and be crappy? Would that be ok?

It’s perfectly fine, Wonderful. You’re amazing you’re hired. That’s awesome. Now giving credit to other people for it. So that’s everything we want. That’s slam dunk. So now I’d like you to suck a bit more. So how do you go with feedback?

Um, feedback is generally um, when people ask for feedback, you gotta be ready to take feedback. For me, feedback is good, it’s just not enough to just listen to feedback, but to take action of the feedback.

You’re doing very well. You need to suck!!!!

You need to do it badly Do you know what suck means?

Laughter Be the opposite Ok Not that. What do you think of feedback? I’m getting really nervous now. His answers are really awesome and, what do you think of feedback You want me to do the opposite of that And I want you to suck.

Ok. Cool. Ah. Feedback the person who’s giving feedback is to really watch out for what they tell me because.

I want you to watch my responses.

For me it’s good if they are giving feedback they need to be able to take feedback.

15

Yeah ok. Tell me more about that.

Um, for a long time I have standards, I happen to love those standards, and um, yeah. They are really important to me. If someone gives me feedback on those standards Yeah it’s important to have high standards isn’t it?

Yeah.

Anything else about that?

Um, yeah, uh I really believe that other people need to have high standards Yeah, and how do you know you’re standards are good? How do trust you’re standards?

Um, my standards are good, because I take pride in achieving high standards. And if can’t get that from other people then, I might go and tell them they need a lot more standards.

Sure, ok. So you are ok with giving feedback?

Um, if I would if it not living up to my standards.

Sure. Ok... and how do you give feedback? I’m kind of curious. It seems like you are quite confident with letting people know; tell me how you do that.

Mm, I’m not, um, sometimes I don’t give feedback.

Hm,, but when you do.

Um. I’ll tell them how it should be done.

Hm... Ok so you tell them how the job needs to be done Yeah.

Hm…ok…What about telling them about standards though cos that’s just about the job, you’re telling me that you know it’s important to live up to the standards. Tell me about that.

If I mean I’ll play by the rule I guess, tell them the rules.

Ok, and the rules are important do you think?

Well, the rules are there to be followed.

Ok, yeah. And is there any time when they are not? Keep in mind I’ve got a C energy. I can be very respectful with C energy. Right and wrong are very very important, high judgement is part of it, dysfunction, is a lot of judgement around high C energy, so you gotta be respectful of it. Does that make sense?

Sorry Are there any times the rules aren’t followed?

A lot of times

16

Ok. And when is that ok?

I’m making this up.

And you are doing great. I need you to keep going, because I want to show everybody, what I do, to give feedback in the interview as to why they are not successful. But you’re not there yet.

Um, it’s ok not to go by the rules, at the times when there’s a crisis or…

That’s actually a really good answer dude, you need to suck more. So this is you’re answer, I get to decide, I pretty well trust myself. Say that. And you will fail. Just please say that I get to decide, and I trust myself.

Yep. Do you trust anybody else?

I find trust, I find giving trust hard. Do I trust other people, yes I do, um, but standards, there my expectations are…

Yeah. Ok. Now I’m gonna pause, what I tend to now is have a conversation about their inability to develop so much I know would be based on this. Zero. Yep you can tell that.

Cos it’s not about people being great, it’s about him being seen to be great, is everyone cool with that? And this is what I’d say. ‘ so I’m just gonna Jake, I’m just gonna pause the interview, um, I think I have the information that I need, would you agree? ‘And I turn to whoever I’m with, yep, we’re on the same, we doing, and we sharing these questions. And we already know, completely what just happened. ‘Um, at this point we probably agree, I think yah? That probably we wouldn’t be moving forward with you as a potential candidate in our company, um, would you like to get a standard formal letter about how you are not successful, or would you like to have a conversation now about we’ve reached that conclusion?.

I wouldn’t mind getting here and done.

Yep? So would you like to receive the feedback now?

Yeah Yeah?

That’s cool with me That’s cool with you? Ok. Terrific. Thankyou I appreciate that not everybody’s comfortable with that. I expected some big deal asking for feedback, do appreciate that probably not normal for companies to do that?

No Yeah. So I hope that’s cool with you that we are taking the time to do that. Yeah. What we are looking for are people who are a real culture match with us. And there’s a certain cultural vibe that we have here, at TCI, and whilst there is aspects in you that perhaps would be able to reach that culture, I don’t know that we really sensing that it naturally comes to you to be our values. There’s, you have certain values around standards and rules and right and wrong, and that isn’t to say we don’t value right and wrong, but our values are

17

expressed a little more fluidly and a little differently around that. And I, I imagine we would let you down terribly, if we had you in our company. Because we would be, you’d be wanting things to be a certain way, and we’d be over here being a certain way, and we’d make you very uncomfortable because we’re not the way you would prefer it to be. And I think whilst you might do well at your job, we’d let you down, and you’d feel within a few months that we’re not for you. And I would hate to be in a position down the track that we’re having that conversation about how you don’t feel you’re a match here and that we are not right for you. I think that would be a very disappointing thing, to get to…does that make sense?

That absolutely makes sense because I am glad you told me that, and it gives me perspective for not getting the position.

Yeah. Totally, and I think rather than just, what you’ve done I really love it’s not you’ve made it really clear about how you wanna ride, we ride a little differently, and you’re ridings really cool, and our ridings really cool, we just ride along differently. So, but with all that said, I trust you feel it’s cool getting feedback from someone in the interview, about why it’s unsuccessful rather than just getting the standard form letter saying you were unsuccessful.

Has that been ok with you?

I absolutely love that Thankyou yeah. Thankyou and we wish you all the best with your future I think you are gonna be a great match for the right company. Thankyou. Give him a hand that was awesome Applause What are your thoughts on that guys? Yeah It’s so respectful. Um, and really valuable, to them as well to be able to get that kind of feedback, Good. That’s what we are aiming for. Yep. I’m helping him do a better interview next time.

I’m helping him succeed, so leave everything you leave better than you found it. That’s the gold standard.

You are also helping him not come into you’re team and f*** it up.

Well that would not be a match. Yeah?

It’s personalised, and respects their time rather than them waiting for a week or so for this letter to arrive Or the letter they are never going to get. Like most companies say, we are not going to let you know if you are not successful. You’ll only find out if you are. Which…

So cool…I have never had someone who does that.

It’s pretty brave. From with the landscape of industrial Australia what I do is pretty brave, so, that’s why I’m very careful to remind them that the alternative is you get the form letter or nothing. Very careful to remind you, your choice is get the feedback, and love it, or, get nothing. Because I’m very mindful that the people who generally and not accepting are driven by ego. High sensitivity, high fear, and high scepticism, so give them the feedback it

18

can backfire on you, cos they can get angry with you, and that’s why I wished Kyle was here thank you so much, but the best story ever is, and we still talk about is a year later. And, I didn’t get that far, I said I want to give you some feedback or perhaps we’re not the right time for you. And maybe you should consider applying perhaps a years’ time. ‘everybody only gets one shot at me’ Ooooooh Slammed the door. Kyle and I sat there for like a minute, yeah that went badly. Then we just got up and walked away. So, be very respectful, and even though we were trying to be respectful but it obviously went badly, if you are going to do that. But I think you create a culture when you do that with your team, when you give feedback in the interview. Yeah?

Its values driven as well, a conversation very much values driven and explaining to the candidate why you know in terms of the values, not quite a match.

And all my questions are really designed to get what their values are. It can’t be bring out the box thinking that sense of adventure if you don’t want to get feedback. It can’t be build a positive team spirit which is value number 10, it can’t be an insatiable hunger to learn which is value number 8, it can’t be that, if you’re worried about getting feedback. There’s three of our values that need it. yeah.

It was very much just about the fact that they’re not a match or together you are not a match and it’s not about them not being good enough.

Exactly. The one thing to say is, we would feel we would let you down. Then moving forward over time if we were to bring you into the organisation because we feel you could do the job, we would be letting you down, and you’d be disappointed with us.

I also notice you ask open questions like anything else about that? Just too…

Yeah just to see where they take it. I’m giving them enough rope. I really am. I ‘m looking and encouraging, I’m looking like I’m welcoming the information. There’s no judgement around it, and as a result they go, thinking I’m on the right track here and they’re revealing themselves. Which they would never get hired when they are in the wrong. Is that cool?

I can’t play poker, I’m all there, my heart on the sleeve, It’s funny even just playing you still have the same emotions when he said those words.

You’re right. Thank you.

I was just making things up, I was finding it a challenge Yeah Uh…whatever. Anybody else on that? Yeah?

Me, I was just thinking how incredibly amazing it will be in terms of for the film industry to get just in one sentence that feedback. Like it could just be so amazing I think.

Yes. Except The flip side to that in your industry it attracts a lot of prima donnas who have got not business giving feedback, cos they are only focused on themselves. So, only people

19

who can give feedback, are people who are naturally compassionate of others feelings. You can’t give feedback if you’re not compassionate of others. You have no business giving feedback.

No but if it came from the um I know what you mean, I am familiar with the industry and I stand by what said. There are many casting directors who have no business giving feedback. And they give feedback that completely wrong cos you go to the next audition and you get the complete opposite effect.

No. There’s nothing, you’re not looking for a values match that is consistently successful in every production. What I am showing you is consistently success on every company.

Yeah ok Yea? Cos you give feedback to one actor or one entertainer and you say you need to turn it down, when we were looking for, and you go to the next round and it’s we were looking for more flamboyance, but I don’t… but with us you take this model into your company it will always work regardless of the company in the world. But it can’t work across productions; it’s not a replicable model. Does that make sense? And I’ll say it again; there are many people that have no business giving feedback to anyone. They have no selfawareness. They are in it because of the ego, that industry attracts self. Self-focus. Selffocus. Self-focus. It is not a generous industry.

There are some good aspects of it.

But as an industry. I’m not bagging; I’m just saying as an industry. It’s not attracting others focused people, it can’t be, you’ve got 15 years to get an overnight success, you better be self-focused, it’s the only way you’re gonna make it. It’s not breeding the kindest qualities.

Yeah? So yes but no. Yeah. For the right person, in the hands of, it’s like everything; the pen in the wrong hands is a weapon. The pen in the right hands is a serve. It serves.

Now, I wanna show the big, that’s an example, of how to progress. What we’re looking for, isn’t to share the value in every wall, they’re a cliché, every boring company, so wherever we interview, tell us what you think of those? That’s what we say. Tell us what, have you seen those? And one of our ways of knowing, how much they cared about the role, is whether or not they’ve been online and researched, that. Cos it’s on the website. Did you?

Yeah Yeah? You knew it?

Mine was um; if you don’t like something change it, no excuses, that are one of the things …

The manifesto?

Yeah Yep, so you saw the manifesto and the values?

Yeah I saw those Was so excited when she saw that.

Laughter

20

You’re the talk of the town. So, we would just say in an interview, so how you going, so tell us, over question tell them about yourself. Just watch where they go. So a D energy, will get to the point and I energy will rabbit on and you can’t shut them up. S energy will answer the question and put a little bit more focus on others. And C energy will answer with what do you want to know? Cos they want to get it right. So you got to be thinking in terms of the role. Which answer you want. Cos one answer for one departments gonna be a terrible answer for another department. I’m recruiting a Marvel, tell me about yourself. ‘oh I just love talking I can talk all day and I just think it’s wonderful and I just love everything you guys do and I think it’s fabulous I just want to be a part of this cos I know I could really make a difference. And I think I’d be really good at it. Tell me about the role, now more about me…..’

That’s ok. If we can hone, that. We can get them, if we can hone it for good and not at me. We can harness it, they gonna rock... You get that response, for someone in Midas.

Tracey doesn’t kill I do. Edit.

Tracy would just would never, never walk into that. Because she knows energetic she’s very experienced she know, that she’s very understated, but she know energetically what’s a fit for her, management needs. So do you get there’s a different energy your for looking for in the answers, be very mindful of what you want, where you want prim Donna and where you we’re you don’t. Anything behind the scenes needs to have a servants focus. So you’d ask questions like this, so tell me about a time when you were at you’re happiest, in your role. Now I got one answer from one person once it was this.

‘When I had a day off and I played golf’ And I just said ‘you’re a dick’.

Laughter You said that?

Yes. Yes. What would you have said? Well out of respect I think I had the time. dick out.

Laughter And don’t ever waste any employers time here. Get out. That’s fair isn’t it? Was it too harsh? Really? They said their favourite time at work was the day off when they played golf?

Mixed talking I said that, that’s you at you’re best. Out. Ahh you didn’t call him a dick I did. I said that’s a dicks answer. Get out. And before you go, that answer, is so disrespectful. No that was 8 years ago, I couldn’t believe it. But it’s a great question. What’s your favourite time at work? What do you love doing? And the answer you want is I don’t mind what I do. That’s you’re gold stamp noble prize answer. I don’t mind what I do, as long I’m serving as long as I’m contributing, I just love, this is the support roles, I just love helping and I just love contributing. With support roles you don’t mind that they’re a little

21

externally focused, you can talk about external internal focus. You need internal drivers, in sales and in front line. So Joe and I we are so certain of ourselves, we drive it. But you put Tracy up here, and she’s completely uncertain of herself, it’s that equation of, everybody looks bad when you, what’s it about the bicycle and the fish what the? There’s a fish and a bicycle. Yeah Something about people and genius Yeah everyone’s a genius, but you can’t get a fish to ride a bicycle. Yeah if you measure a fish by how well it rides a bicycle. It’s not gonna look that smart. It’s the same thing.

That was Einstein It was Einstein Laughter I knew I’d get there eventually. And hour to go I did it!! So you’re looking to get an ask that matches the energy you want. That’s really important. And so ‘support role see I love helping, I’m really keen to find out more about it, cos wanna get it right.’ Good C answer, ‘I’m really keen to be able to find ways that I can help.’ And you’d always say tell me more.

And that will either give me an CAM answer. Their gonna give you one of them. The answer, anything anybody says on the planet falls into one of those four categories, or sometimes more than one. But a crappy answer is ‘ah,’ and ok answer is ‘I just like finding it more,’ this is an I energy trying to go into support, it’s a fail. ‘Just finding out more about people you know, really getting into what they’re doing and being part of the discussions.

And you know really making sure I’m across everything’s that’s going on, I love hearing what people are doing.’ We are done. Support? Never gonna happen. Tell me more. ‘Yeah I love getting clarity about what’s important so I know what I have to drive forward.’ That’s an I answer. In CAM, that’s a better answer. Do you guys get this? What about this? Tell me more. ‘Well I love finding out how I can improve things, you know I wanna I get a lot done, but what I really like is to have it organised.’ Huh, tell me more, now we are hearing structure. Better for support. I’m hearing it. So you’re just listening, now don’t expect too much around E. Most western cultures just have no concept of this. You know culture is something that I don’t know, grows in a dish, they just it’s not an easy thing. Thank you.

So, huh? It was funny.

Laughter Culture is something that grows in a petri dish Yeah. So when you say so tell me what happens when things don’t go well in your department what did you do? Really big question to ask. Think of a time when something’s gone wrong in your department. What did you do? How did you respond? And you’re gonna hear very little E, so you’ve got to encourage gotta find out. So can we role play please? Can you think of an example when something went wrong in your department?

What did you do?

Um, yes when we had this problem with one of our clients, something went wrong with their system and we needed to work out how to fix it.

Ok, and what did you do?

22

Um, I tried to call the people that we were dealing with the client to find out if the system had been shut off so that the clients weren’t aware that it had at all broken Yup, what else?

Um, and then I kind of made a list of who all the other people were that I needed to contact and I let them know and um, sent out an email.

Sure,, yep, yep, great ok, cool, and what ended up happening?

Um well then we had to go away and work out what the problem was and get the system fixed and then.

Sure. That wasn’t my question. What ended up happening? What was the outcome?

Um, it got fixed. And everything was ok.

Sure, so you just heard one answer. I P. It was a terrible answer. It had very little; it had no E, touch of S, and what about the body language? Which I appreciate you doing. The client and I just had to find a way to fix that problem, thank you for doing that it was just so flippant about the stuff that actually matters. How salaries are paid.

So we had a client and they were really challenged. That’s what you want the body language around the client. Right in front, front and centre. Is a brilliant answer. Very rarely.

You’re not gonna hear this but you know, whatever. I had this client they were really challenged, and we let them down, and we were so disappointed in ourselves, so the reflection came later, but what we really had to do was find a way to get them back on track so they realise that they really mattered to us. Cos they did. This is all E. Cos they’re explaining why it matters, they get why it matters. And anything they say after that is just gonna follow from that. Is that making sense guys? You got to know what to listen for. If it’s just I P you’re just getting more of the same busyness, bush fire management people running around, people waiting to be micro managed people waiting to be told what to do. You got to hear some E S in answer. Just keep asking the question, tell me more.

Tell me more about that. So what did you do? What ended up happening? And every now and again, do what I did, when they start not answering the question, snap it. ‘No that’s not what I asked, answer my question.’ And see how they respond to being growled at in an interview. See what happens, ‘no that’s not what I asked, answer my question.’ And you just see some respectfully some older guys, from a chick… in leather pants Laughter It’s quite an interesting response. Just seeing them yeah, I’m getting there, we’re done, that’s all it took just one correction when you’re trying to look you’re best, it’s not what I say to them, but that’s what you just saw. When they are trying to be at their best, even when they are trying to be their best, they can’t stand, to have anything that’s getting in the way of making them look in any way flawed. Is that making sense? So that’s a no. So you’ve got to give it a least one pushback. What about this? Chat chat chat chat chat ‘yeah but earlier you said blah’ look like you’re trying to trip them up. And see how they handle it. ‘Yeah I’m just, hang on, I’m just gonna pause you , earlier you said blah, what does that mean?’ And watch what they do when they get not caught, but they feel caught, cos that’s what low quality people do, feel caught. ‘You said to me earlier you said blah.’ ‘Oh yeah good point, thank you.’ I’m done, big whoop, do you know what I mean I’m not trying to

23

hold the floors, couldn’t possibly, there everywhere, but for many people it’s’ no. ‘No what I meant there was, no’ and you start hearing the pushback, that’s can’t hire them. So you see how we get there faster Greg?

Mm You were thinking it takes days and weeks, Yeah You ask the right questions, you reveal character, flaws that you won’t be able to help them with.

Are you looking at teach ability Yeah. Coach ability and teach ability. Yep. Then in the interview, so one of our values is bring out out of the box thinking to, ‘can you tell me about the time when you did that in your organisation?’ And give them time, it’s all new language, and see what they do. And you’ll hear others or self-focused. And they’ll start telling you about what other people do.

Opportune and correct. ‘Yeah, that’s great that’s what others did that’s terrific, that wasn’t my question. And see how they respond, the answer is not what they say; it’s how they respond to that no. I asked you to tell me about what you did, that demonstrated out of the box thinking in the sense of adventure, this is about you, what did you do? And see if they get very very flustered and very very tense or yeah ok, sure. Then you hear others focus, ‘yeah it’s just that everyone was so awesome about it’ so even in the face of me questioning, they still celebrated others? Where coming out of that interview, da nan a da nan a. that’s how we’re feeling. Cos it’s awesome, even though they got pushed by me the boss, they still came good with how others serve. You get this? So you’re looking for, and then the other thing so we’re looking for, self and others, Internal external, and the other thing we’re looking for is size of scope of future. Can they see the big picture or do they only seeing the details, they’re the major three Meta programmes I looking for.

So do they get self-analysis?

Foreword. Self and others, internal external, scope of future which I’m about to do. Which is big picture to detail. So, um, Marylyn what did you do in your last role?

Oh I did this that and the other thing, nothing in particular Wow, ok we’re done thanks for coming. Do that on the day Laughter Thank you. I organised the exams and the applications for registrar training.

So which answer was that? On a CAM Detail I detail. It wasn’t even I big picture. So if you are looking for a big picture in your company that’s a no. They’re not capable of it, they don’t see the big picture you can’t make people see the big picture, people only see the picture they are ready to see. Is this helpful guys?

What did you do in your last role?

24

Do you want me to answer?

However you choose, it won’t matter we’ll learn.

Laughter Ah a variety of different things actually So we just heard this level middle go So I helped my boss with recruitment of graduates, um I also um, helped gosh it was a while ago, um, with um, co-ordinating meetings, so we had lots of stake holders. In that meeting was actually getting them together every week.

And this is thankyou, these are the answers you are going to hear constantly, very I answers. It is like one in two thousand when you hear this answer. Ask me what I use to do.

What did you used to do?

So, I think what I really contributed the most, was seeing the potential in others, I did it through a variety of ways, I did it through recruitment and what was the first thing you said?

Ah I can’t remember.

Training, there we’re a number of different vehicles to get there but I think really the purpose of my role, I where I really sung, was the way I could really bring peoples potential out and help them see the pathway and their journey for them. You’re so fricken rare. I’ve actually never had it, but I’m waiting for that interview we’re someone is capable of seeing.

I interviewed CEO’s who wanted 300,000 plus to run this company. Who aren’t capable of that answer. It’s really rare, corporate seem to be in the I leave out any E. but that’s what’s you’re training people to express. I don’t know anyone who does, it’s, I know their purpose, like Marg said her purpose is to give love, to make people feel good, to do assessments, do you know what I mean? Like, that’s what you want.

So would there be different advice if the question was if I asked ‘so tell me what you did in your other role’ if I asked ‘tell me what do you feel you’re purpose is?’

Yeah but I’m deliberately trying to find out what their CAM is without prompting, if you ask purpose you’re asking an E question, you are forcing them to go but what makes them look good. The questions have to be so open, and so with help, that they will sink or swim, based on the information they choose to give you. The moment you ask a specific question, don’t I’ve learnt this, don’t ask a specific questions, where you are needing to search for a number of criteria.

So maybe just tell me tell me about you’re previous role?

That’s what I said. Just what you used to do. Just ask that! What did you use to do? Do it that way, just do it my way. What did you use to do, and watch them, ESI or P. What did you enjoy about that role? What did you want to do all the time? What’s a big to do list for you? Tell me about that. And whatever answer they say, say ‘I wonder what would happen if it was doubled’ whatever answer they give. What would happen if it doubled? And just watch them. Then you can hear a number of answers, the C energy I hate to let anybody down. I do this or let someone down, or I got it wrong. The S energy, I don’t want to let

25

anybody down. The I energy, ahh I just do my best, you know help get priorities, the D……………………….

Laughter You’re just gonna hear different answers, and you’ve gotta decide is that the answer for the role? Cos a D leader, what do you mean? You don’t just ah that’s a fail, what do you mean? Cos I know to be most effective for others. I need a to do list we’re I can see where I’m heading, so I can guide others. If I take on too much I’ll let people down, I’m not being a great example of leadership, that’s a fricken awesome answer if you take the time to ask how come? Is that making sense? You gotta get the reason behind the answer it’s not about the answer. And then you throw in another one, ‘so one of our values is to take responsibility can you think of a time when you showed enormous sense of responsibility?

‘Can you share that with me now? Just listen, is it about judging others cos everybody else got it wrong. Done. Is it celebration of how it brought people together? People focused, just listen. To where the answer takes them. They will reveal everything. And that’s basically all the questions you’ve got to ask.

What about this question ‘what wouldn’t you do?’ This is the most common answer I get. ‘I wouldn’t clean the toilets’. And my response to that is ‘that’s interesting I own the business and I clean them daily, what’s you excuse?’ You can hear me saying it can’t’ you? Cos I’m waiting to see how they response for pushback, it looks like a little judgement, I clean them daily, what’s excuse? Oh what I meant was, no. Why do you say you wouldn’t do that?

Are you above doing something that the company needs you to do? Is that what you are saying? And just watch what they do. I had one person turn that around. You’re right, that’s really good feedback thank you. That was arrogant of me. It’s actually not true. I was being flippant, I should have thought about my answer more. Good save, good save.

Laughter Yeah? You do group interviews. Put glasses on the table, put a jug on the table, and don’t fill it. Just see who takes care of people.

So you never try and sell them you’re organisation? All you in the interview you are just probing?

Well it becomes too way, this conversation becomes a shared experience, so it’s very collegial, and nothing I’ve done looking like I’m at the person. It’s with them, that conversation was very tell me more, and then I might ask, if I think there’s a shot, so what would you want to know? It’s a crappy question, cos all they can ask is tell me about the role. I don’t know. Oh that’s fun. So about the role, we don’t know what it is yet, what do you mean? We don’t do job descriptions. We hire on cultural fits. We don’t know what the job will be. You get two responses, awesome! I love the sound of that! Oh really? I was really looking for a job. That was twenty minutes of my life.

Laughter Never getting that back. Thank you respectfully, done. So, Do they ever say ‘well how am I going? I would have expected that one How am I going? Ok that one.

26

They have what?

Well how am I going?

No they made their response to that question; I have once in an interview been asked the question how am I doing in the interview I just said ‘do you have any questions?’ ‘yeah how am I doing’ we love that question, Kyle and I had that once. And we said thank you that’s a great question and we said back to them ‘how do you think you are doing?’

Laughter Yup. There’s actually not a measure of success in our organisation. It’s so, that’s not an answer. Have another go.

But obviously you happy to invest your time Yeah, you need to hear the feedback. And now where we’re getting somewhere. How are you handling being told, cos we are all smiles, we at it again, it’s this. And then you see, do they still need the need to push back. We are looking for moments when you are trying to help them show their truth. That’s what you’re after. You really are. And it’s very telling in as what is it you want to know, I think it’s a very difficult question. Cos most people would only say ‘tell me about the job’ and that’s a really crap question. Cos our only response to that is, ‘we don’t have a job description. Do you have a better question? Yeah We always ask at the end of the interview ‘is there anything you’d like to know from us?’ had one client ah one candidate once said ‘tell me how you brought new company values here and how many people live by them’. mm. That’s brilliant . That would be just, that’s awesome.

I’ve have that, and questions about benchmarks.

Yeah, we can’t have those questions cos they’re in the interview all the way through, there’s our values which one do you like the most, which ones don’t you think you live, what’s an example of you delivering wow, the last four of five of the values on the door, so then asking us ‘yeah how do you live your values? ‘Really dude, that was the whole interview.

Another thing we say a lot of the time is ‘we hire fire performance review and give feedback on values. What are your thoughts on that?’ most people don’t know what to do with that.

But it’s just sharing enough of us so that they get how we ride, and then we always ask during it ‘do you think you’re a cultural match for that kind of atmosphere, where’s that much chaos going on?’ We are just testing the boundaries all the time. Does that make any sense?

Agreement I’m finding it this little tiring just telling you, it’s just causing I just have to remember questions I ask that aren’t ask every question so. To everyone every time, I don’t have a script. But I trust this is helpful enough to bring it alive enough that there’s a rock n roll to it, which gives them a chance to show me how they really ride.

And so who in um, do you have different interview all the time I think so; I think that’s what they do. I think they get help as they need it, they are all pretty well trained, they’ve done it , I’ve mentored and shadowed them, in enough

27

interviews now they know how to do a great interview. And they know what we’re looking for. I would say the last 30 people have been unsuccessful. To come and join us.

Murmuring Yeah?

Um, what did you write when you put it on the advertising and things like that?

Oh, you should check it out. There’s probably an ad up there right now. Have a look and see how much rock and roll is in the ad. You should check it out. Yeah. Don’t add too much quirk though cos it you attract people who are just a little bit too creative, and selfdriven. And not enough about trying, yeah, trust me, have a look at our ads, they are pretty well spot on now for getting the right people.

Yesterday you mentioned that anyone can sit in on in an interview Yah Is that anyone at all or the team leaders, or..

Anyone Anyone that wants..

Anyone who’s ready to learn, there’s people in our organisation who don’t even know we recruit, they don’t know how it’s happens, people just appear.

Laughter It’s true! There are a couple juniors, they are so unaware of the big picture, and they’ve got no concept of the big picture. Yeah.

I thought they murmurs Um, I was gonna ask you earlier there was like five people sitting in the interview The most we allow is three as a guide, and we always ask permission for the third person.

I’m generally I’m the third person and I’ll arrive in the interview cos I’m pretty good at assessing, I’m very good at pushing buttons.

Really?

Laughter And so I, I’ll come in, sometimes someone will mention would you mind dropping on an interview we’ll be starting at 1.30pm you can come in at any time. And it takes me about 2 minutes. To just get the response, that will tell them what they need to know about their compassion curiosity under pressure. Yeah compassion curiosity and under pressure. You have to be, that’s the only way you will be a success in this team. So I just do that, I just make them feel pressure, and then see if they are curious and kind. That’s it. so I go in halfway through and say ‘look there’s already two people in the interview, I think there’s probably a, are you cool if I sit in for a little while, I’m Sharon I’m part of the team here and I’d love to get to know you is that ok with you or, and they get to decide, I’ve never had anyone say no, but it’s very respectful to ask permission. They say ‘nah its fine, the more the

28

merrier!’ good answer. Or ‘no that’s fine it’s an opportunity to get to know more people’.

Whatever you are looking for a compassionate answer under pressure. It’s a really good tell. ‘Thank you I appreciate that it’s awesome, so I know I’ve come in late, tell me about yourself’. And I just do that stare. The ab stare…..

Laughter And it’s really interesting. And they go, ‘who are you?’ I’m just part of the team. ‘Haven’t I seen you’re photo?’ yeah, tell me about yourself. Cos their freaking out (is this the owner?)

This is the owner? And I’m not giving it away; it’s all about them and see what they do under pressure. And the pressure goes up. You just feel the heat in the room go up. And my two comrades are sitting there.

Laughter Yeah. You got to know how people fall under pressure. So that’s the first part of recruitment. The next part is, if they’re successful in the interview, we’ll say something like this, ‘you’ve done pretty well, how do you think you’ve done in this interview?’ and I don’t have it on role play with him but chat chat chat ‘ok so can we suggest a path forward?’

‘Yeah’ ‘we would suggest at this point that we would recommend we would like to recommend to you that you need to come in for a day and see what it is for real to be in this culture. Us talking about it is not going to get you there, you need to experience it to know it. So we’d like to recommend you come in for a single day, and, you sit in the wow team, which is where the recruits go, and you see what this place is really like. And ask questions throughout the day, and really see if we are a cultural fit. You won’t be able to do the job, you won’t succeed, cos you’ve never done it before,’ that’s a really good way to find out what they’re made of. You can’t succeed. You will not be able to do the job. You’ve never done it before. Aaaah you’re all good.

Thank you.

Laughter Very kind. Um ’but what we’re gonna do is have an opportunity to get to know each other, and you can ask questions and see how we ride, see if you’re a fit for us and we can see if you’re a fit for us and vice versa. How does that sound?’ ‘oh a hole day?’

Or, do I get paid for that?

And we do pay, but if they ask that, that’s a tell. Or, ‘all day? Really? That sounds like, that’s hard work.’ tell. Hello.

Water Murmuring Laughter

29

Applause I have a eye, he gets benchmarked on how much water I drink through the day I’m not joking his failing is right now ok. Feedback received. I’m serious, it’s an unfair well, I give him a hard time if I don’t drink enough water. You think I’m joking. I actually am not. He gets a hard time if I don’t hit my benchmark. Cos I don’t think about water. When you’re a trainer all I’m doing is thinking about you so, nag me it’s awesome. You guys still think I’m joking, I’m not. Ok cool She’s not joking No. So, come for a day and looking for how they respond to the day. And a great answer could be this ‘yeah, I can do a day, I’m just thinking, what I need to do in terms of taking care of my current employment.’

Awesome. Exit gracefully. What about this, ‘it will be really difficult to do, because of my current employment, I’ll have to organise some shifts, is it ok if I have a couple of weeks to organise it, I’d like to but I don’t want to let anyone down.’

Awesome. ‘absolutely it can be done, it’s gonna take some juggling, is it ok if I do two half days, just cos I’ve got some shift work and nobody else can take my place?’

Exit gracefully. Really considerate. Anything else? No. The only answer you really want is absolutely I’d love to. That’s the answer you want. Then they come in for a day, and what you do is you load them up with impossible jobs. You give them more than they could possibly do, deliberately, and you tell them, ‘so what we’re going to be doing is we are giving you more than you can possibly do, by lunch time we are going to seize some targets to achieve by lunch time but you won’t be able to achieve. You won’t be able to achieve it, we are not assessing you on doing the job, which you can’t do, and we are assessing you on your attitude under pressure. We are assessing what you attend to, when you are under pressure. So this is you’re opportunity to show us what your attitude is, under pressure, we are spelling out. It is amazing how many people; you’ve seen it haven’t you? Sharon would go see if you can break them? Sure. Thank you my job.

Laughter How you going? Two hours in. ‘Oh there’s just so much to do, I can’t ‘yep got it. Thank you done. And I actually say that, I’m gonna stop you there, so if you can do this Marylyn just be over ‘how you going?’

‘Oh there’s so much to do’ I’m gonna stop you there. What were you’re instructions when you came in for the day?

Um, This is how I’m very good at getting people out who aren’t a match. Takes about a minute.

30

Actually you told me I’d be given a lot to do, So why are you telling me there’s a lot to do? How is that helpful?

I don’t know, yeah, it’s not helpful.

Well you’re actually recovering now, so you need to suck so I can show, how I can do this Well I just don’t think you really understand, Hoh, that’s easy Laughter Awesome. And then it’s just, the team watches it, watch this person crumble, cos I come along and give more pressure, they can’t think. And I say to them ‘what we’re your instructions?’ ‘What were you’re instructions this morning?’

That I had to work really hard They were not you’re instructions what were your instructions?

Ah, to watch people?

Nope, what were you’re instructions?

Ah, So were gonna pause you there, it seems you seem a have a bit of a struggle, and the roles important for detail. Did you write down what you’re instructions we’re this morning?

No, no I usually remember those things.

Um m, so in the administration model we’re looking to fill, attention to detail is very important, you don’t seem to be demonstrating, what are your thoughts on that?

Yeah look I’ll do it now.

I’m not repeating the instructions.

Ok. Well I was just too busy to write it out.

Ok. Out where good. It’s not that hard, you give someone too much to do, you tell them they’re getting too much to do, you tell them it’s not the point of the exercise the exercise to see how they respond when they’ve got too much to do, and how their attitude is under pressure. You give them all those instructions. And then two hours later you send someone in who’s got the ap stare, and you say ‘how you doing’ and you just watch them tumble out of their heads. They just spill their blah. Everywhere, cos they think they are gonna be rescued. And it doesn’t happen, you put them under more pressure, you’re instructions were very clear. What were they? I don’t know. That’s not showing much attention to detail. If this is how you are on your first day. I have got to question how you are going to be on day ninety. And that’s it. They generally de-select themselves at that point. Cos everything they said about handle feedback, was bullshit. Now that’s how we talk in the company to each other, that’s how we are, you got the feedback, you were meant to act on it, why am I having to repeat myself, se say that to each other. Why do I

31

have to repeat that? If they can’t handle it on day one, on their best day, it’s only downhill from here. You guys are so quiet right now you are kind of freaking me out.

Laughter Too harsh for a chick? Yeah?

Would there be any merit if after you’ve given the instructions in asking them why they believe it’s important to do this?

Give me more, I’m sure there is merit in everything, but I need to see what your aim is here.

You’re looking to see if they fight for the experience and what…

Sure. But I can’t do every hypothetical potential role play, she didn’t fight for it so it’s an easy one. Do the role play of the hypothetical you want, but I’m gonna stop it at two. Cos everybody can then say, but what if they, so go.

I’m talking about as a process, that you give them the instructions you said it will be too much you won’t be able to do it.

And we are doing this because, we want to assess your attitude and how you are under pressure. We say that, I said that so many times, it’s all in the instruction. It’s an E instruction. And then I just go in or someone goes in two hours later. ‘How you going?’ and it all unfolds. And very rarely you get this answer. ‘It’s going great’ clearly, we actually someone do it didn’t we? We had someone get through all the tasks by lunchtime. Once.

Laughter Couldn’t believe it, not the point. Actually got through it. They said ‘oh it’s awesome; I’m learning so much I can’t believe this culture it’s like I’ve come home’. Howling pressure, digging the culture, and I walk away ha-ha... It can only go downhill from there so, then what you do in the afternoon if they survive the morning, they get to the afternoon, you set them up to do a secret wow. So, you say, we are a culture of secret wows. We like to wow each other and make people feel special, you’re assignment is within in the next half hour to meet someone you haven’t met yet, find out something about them that they enjoy, find a way to wow them. And you need to do everything else you are doing this afternoon. And the reason we do that is cos we think it’s really important to make people feel part of the culture to feel special and it’s a good way of knowing whether or not this is for you, and self-focus will not appreciate that exercise at all. They’ll think what’s the point who cares?

What does that prove? But people that love it, they’re gonna do it. How are we doing you guys? I don’t know what else to give you, you’d have to ask me questions cos obviously recruitment it’s huge, but I just try to give you some highlights of how to do it.

Um in someone asked for a second chance?

Yeah. Yeah sure. Tell me what that looks like to you. I‘ll put it back to them tell me what it is to you. ‘Well I just think it wasn’t really fair’. And…we’re done.

Laughter Except and on and yes I should have written it down in the morning

32

Yep. Yes you should have.

Can I get a second chance?

I don’t know can you?

Yes. It’s not up to me, what do you think?

I think I should You think you should, why?

Because ah I can I have been enjoying being part of the community in the morning.

Yep, and I think it’s great that you’re enjoying it. What are you adding to it?

Um I’m adding, I learning new things I don’t care if you’re learning, the question was what are you adding to it?

Um, We are hiring people who are culturally positive, how are you contributing to it? Everyone enjoys it, everyone wants to be a piece of it, and everyone wants to take from it, how are you adding to it?

By learning it and now it does Ok, when did you do that?

Murmur Oh you want to do that? So you haven’t added to the culture yet? Hm. So I wonder if a second chance is really the point. Given you weren’t able to follow the instructions, you did experience overwhelm and you haven’t contributed to the culture yet. What do you think?

That I don’t deserve a second go.

Ok. Good decision. Thank you Laughter Great decision. Yeah That was interesting then, what if somebody, do you want to do another what if?

Cos you know this one takes 12 years, go.

Laughter Uh, I haven’t really found where I contribute but, I’d like to stay and see where that would be?

Ok tell me more.

33

I like the way the team, the sales team really contribute on the phone to people, um, I love the bell ringing Yeah, that’s not gonna work. That’s just show. Everyone digs the show; we don’t hire people who dig the show.

Can I try?

Yeah Are you the recruit?

Yeah I’m the…

You’re the person I’m looking to hire? Why are you telling me all this this sounds awesome, what’s your point?

Ok, I thought we were looking at what answers do you want to have, from them that the culture to fit…

That’s a good answer, in proving things is culturally part of it? That’s part of it? Sure, go for it, I’m actually not gonna take any more cos this seriously can go for 12 years.

Laughter For every potential conversation you’re gonna want me to role play and I’ve been here, and it never ever every goes well I just end up hypothetical, hypothetical, hypothetical, so, the idea is not to take my cool lines, it’s to get the thinking behind it, and you should be able to do that from one role-play, Agreement It’s getting the thinking; you just see me doing it, just being in awe of what I can do cos I’ve been doing it for 11 years it’s not helping you. Trust me. It doesn’t help you. The help comes when you can sit back and think about what was my intention what am I accomplishing? Does that make sense guys?

Agreement So, enough role-plays, And so part of it must be me being really clear about the values and the culture of the company? The what am I looking for and noticing my own language.

Sure. And be willing to say it.

Yeah, being You have to say it.

Basically being there with the person wanting to know who they are and what they can contribute as opposed to doing an interview.

The interview really is meant to be just a collaboration of conversation it really is. That’s what...

34

No I’m never clear on the role. I never walk into the interview we’re I know the role, You say before about saying certain personalities Sure. The team, I know they team they are heading towards, but the specifics of the job I have no clue what anyone does in detail in this company. It would be awful if I had to know that. Yeah How often do you have people on board that you allow them to shift between teams, and how do you facilitate that?

I think it was the conversation I had with you guys yesterday, it doesn’t like you singing new song, conversation.

Yeah that one Tell me well I did that yesterday so insert that conversation. Just tell me a bit of, I’m not gonna do what, I did the whole role play yesterday.

So how you actually enable them to move around if there’s…is there always I guess there’s always work to be done.

Well there’s always improvements to be made, no one go to anywhere in this company without any value. So, but sometimes, you can’t go there. There rocking, they don’t need anything new that’s that’s you taking care of you but it’s not taking care of the business, so why did you suggest it? You are focused on yourself, I appreciate that but I’ve got to think of the whole business not just the individual.

So it’s more about where can you add value and go seek that out.

Yeah.

Ya, not just where would you like to fit?

Can’t be. Got to take care of business first. Good question.

That’s what I was looking for.

Yeah cool, anything else guys? Has this been useful?

Agreement What time are we finishing today? five Seven.

Laughter So, we are just going to have a 10 minute break, cos I still have to do performance reviews, and ninety day reviews, is that ok? Round of applause absolutely Applause.

Not enough talking, have more TV parts next time, stop being extras

35

Laughter I’ll see you in ten minutes. laughter

36

THE COACHING INSTITUTE Suite 40, 37-39 Albert Road, Melbourne, VIC 3004, Australia.

Phone: +61 3 9645 9945 Fax: +61 3 9645 7002 Email: wow@thecoachinginstitute.com.au Website: www.thecoachinginstitute.com.au

SHARON PEARSON Disruptive Leadership Module 5 Wow Meeting and Disruptive Leadership in Recruitment Edition 1 | Version 2 | December 16 Published by The Coaching Institute Copyright 2016 Š The Coaching Institute All rights reserved. No part of this publication may be reproduced or transmitted in any form or by any means, mechanical or electronic, including photocopying and recording, or by information storage and retrieval system without permission in writing from the publisher.

In some instances, people or companies portrayed in this book are illustrative examples based on the author’s experiences, but they are not intended to represent a particular person or organisation.

NOTE TO READERS All products and services by our company are for educational and informational purposes only. Use caution and seek the advice of qualified professionals. Check with your accountant, lawyer, professional advisor, before acting on this or any information.

The publisher and author and marketing agents assume no responsibility or liability whatsoever on the behalf of any purchaser or reader of these materials.

Video content available at www.disruptiveleading.com/book/the-journey/ Video content may not be available indefinitely.

Designed by The Coaching Institute Printed in Australia by The Coaching Institute

37

38