Alter Ego #26 by TwoMorrows Publishing

MAKE WAY FOR JOLTIN’

JOE SINNOTT

THE MAN WHO INKED THE MARVEL AGE!

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No. 26 July 2003

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(NOW WITH 16 COLOR PAGES!) “AllInterview Issue”! Part 2 of an exclusive STEVE ENGLEHART interview (continued from ALTER EGO #103)! “Pro2Pro” interviews between SIMONSON & LARSEN, MOENCH & WEIN, and comics letterers KLEIN & CHIANG. Plus JOHN OSTRANDER, MICHAEL USLAN, and longtime DC color artist ADRIENNE ROY! Cover by Englehart collaborator MARSHALL ROGERS!

“Gods!” Takes an in-depth look at WALTER SIMONSON’s Thor, the Thunder God in the Bronze Age, “Pro2Pro” interview with TOM DeFALCO and RON FRENZ, Hercules: Prince of Power, Moondragon, Three Ways to End the New Gods Saga, exclusive interview with fantasy writer MICHAEL MOORCOCK, art and commentary by GERRY CONWAY, JACK KIRBY, BOB LAYTON, and more, with a swingin’ Thor cover by SIMONSON!

“Liberated Ladies” eyeing female characters that broke barriers in the Bronze Age: Big Barda, Valkyrie, Ms. Marvel, Phoenix, Savage She-Hulk, and the sword-wielding Starfire. Plus a “Pro2Pro” interview with JILL THOMPSON, GAIL SIMONE, and BARBARA KESEL, art and commentary by JOHN BYRNE, GEORGE PEREZ, JACK KIRBY, MIKE VOSBURG, and more, with a new cover by BRUCE TIMM!

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THE BEST IN COMICS AND LEGO MAGAZINES!

ALTER EGO #105

ALTER EGO #106

ALTER EGO #107

ALTER EGO #108

DRAW! #22

See comic art and script BEFORE and AFTER the Comics Code changes, with art by SIMON & KIRBY, DITKO, BUSCEMA, SINNOTT, GOULD, COLE, STERANKO, KRIGSTEIN, O’NEIL, GLANZMAN, ORLANDO, WILLIAMSON, HEATH, and others! Plus: FCA, Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt, BILL SCHELLY, JIM AMASH interviews Timely/Atlas artist CAL MASSEY, and a new cover by JOSH MEDORS!

DICK GIORDANO through the 1960s—from freelance years and Charlton “Action-Heroes” to his first stint at DC! Art by DITKO, APARO, BOYETTE, MORISI, McLAUGHLIN, GIL KANE, and others, Dick’s final convention panel with STEVE SKEATES and ROY THOMAS, JIM AMASH interviews Charlton artist TONY TALLARICO, FCA with MARC SWAYZE and ROY ALD, MR. MONSTER’S COMIC CRYPT, BILL SCHELLY, GIORDANO cover, and more!

Big BATMAN issue, with an unused Golden Age cover by DICK SPRANG! SHEL DORF interviews SPRANG and JIM MOONEY, with rare and unseen Batman art by BOB KANE, JERRY ROBINSON, WIN MORTIMER, SHELLY MOLDOFF, CHARLES PARIS, and others! Part II of the TONY TALLARICO interview by JIM AMASH! Plus FCA, MR. MONSTER’S COMIC CRYPT, BILL SCHELLY, and more!

1970s Bullpenner WARREN REECE talks about Marvel Comics and working with EVERETT, BURGOS, ROMITA, STAN LEE, MARIE SEVERIN, ADAMS, FRIEDRICH, ROY THOMAS, and others, with rare art! DEWEY CASSELL spotlights Golden Age artist MIKE PEPPE, with art by TOTH, ANDRU, TUSKA, CELARDO, & LUBBERS, plus FCA, MR. MONSTER, BILL SCHELLY, cover by EVERETT & BURGOS, and more!

Interview with inker SCOTT WILLIAMS from his days at Marvel and Image to his work with JIM LEE, and PATRICK OLIFFE demos how he produces Spider-Girl, Mighty Samson, and digital comics. Also, MIKE MANLEY and BRET BLEVINS’ “Comic Art Bootcamp”, a “Rough Critique” of a newcomer’s work by BOB McLEOD, art supply reviews by “Crusty Critic” JAMAR NICHOLAS, and more!

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LEE & KIRBY: THE WONDER YEARS (KIRBY COLLECTOR #58)

Special double-size book examines the first decade of the FANTASTIC FOUR, and the events that put into motion the Marvel Age of Comics! New interviews with STAN LEE, FLO STEINBERG, MARK EVANIER, JOE SINNOTT, and others, with a wealth of historical information and Kirby artwork!

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KIRBY COLLECTOR #59

BRICKJOURNAL #17

BRICKJOURNAL #18

BRICKJOURNAL #19

“Kirby Vault!” Rarities from the “King” of comics: Personal correspondence, private photos, collages, rare Marvelmania art, bootleg album covers, sketches, transcript of a 1969 VISIT TO THE KIRBY HOME (where Jack answers the questions YOU’D ask in ‘69), MARK EVANIER, pencil art from the FOURTH WORLD, CAPTAIN AMERICA, MACHINE MAN, SILVER SURFER GRAPHIC NOVEL, and more!

LEGO SPACE WAR issue! A STARFIGHTER BUILDING LESSON by Peter Reid, WHY SPACE MARINES ARE SO POPULAR by Mark Stafford, a trip behind the scenes of LEGO’S NEW ALIEN CONQUEST SETS that hit store shelves earlier this year, plus JARED K. BURKS’ column on MINIFIGURE CUSTOMIZATION, building tips, event reports, our step-by-step “YOU CAN BUILD IT” INSTRUCTIONS, and more!

Go to Japan with articles on two JAPANESE LEGO FAN EVENTS, plus take a look at JAPAN’S SACRED LEGO LAND, Nasu Highland Park—the site of the BrickFan events and a pilgrimage site for many Japanese LEGO fans. Also, a feature on JAPAN’S TV CHAMPIONSHIP OF LEGO, a look at the CLICKBRICK LEGO SHOPS in Japan, plus how to get into TECHNIC BUILDING, LEGO EDUCATION, and more!

LEGO EVENTS ISSUE covering our own BRICKMAGIC FESTIVAL, BRICKWORLD, BRICKFAIR, BRICKCON, plus other events outside the US. There’s full event details, plus interviews with the winners of the BRICKMAGIC CHALLENGE competition, complete with instructions to build award winning models. Also JARED K. BURKS’ regular column on minifigure customizing, building tips, and more!

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Vol. 3, No. 26 / July 2003

™

Editor Roy Thomas

Associate Editors Bill Schelly Jim Amash

Design & Layout Christopher Day

Consulting Editor John Morrow

FCA Editor P.C. Hamerlinck

Comic Crypt Editor Michael T. Gilbert

Editors Emeritus Jerry Bails (founder) Ronn Foss, Biljo White, Mike Friedrich

Production Assistant Eric Nolen-Weathington

Cover Artists Joe Sinnott Wayne Boring

Spotlight On JOE SINNOTT

Cover Colorists Joe Sinnott Tom Ziuko

And Special Thanks to: Bob Bailey Ken Bald Bob Beerbohm Bill Black Frank Bonilla Ray Bottorff, Jr. Tom Brevoort Roger Caldwell Mike Catron Nat Champlin John Costanza Craig Delich Al Dellinges Scott Deschaine Joe Desris Jay Disbrow Mark Evanier Carl Gafford Mark Glidden Walt Grogan George Hagenauer Richard Halegua Paul Handler Tom Horvitz Jon B. Knutson Tim Lapsley Michael Lark Mike Leach Stan Lee Paul Levitz Don Maris

Richard Martines Michael Mikulovsky Brian K. Morris Edwin & Terry Murray Will Murray Michelle Nolan Bruce Pritchard Trina Robbins Dorothy Schaffenberger Julius Schwartz Dave Siegel Jeff Singh Joe Sinnott Marc Svensson Marc Swayze Dann Thomas Alex Toth Jim Vadeboncoeur, Jr. Michael J. Vassallo Mark Voger Mark Waid Hames Ware Alan Weiss Andy Yanchus Ken Yodowitz Eddy Zeno Mike Zeno Bernie Zlotnik

Contents Writer/Editorial: Happiness Is Just A Guy Called Joe . . . . . . . . 2 “You Do the Best You Can...” . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 Joe Sinnott—Marvel’s primo Silver Age inker—interviewed by Jim Amash. Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt: Spot That Style!!. . . . . . . . . . . . . 31 A querulous quiz conducted by Michael T. Gilbert. The Iger Counter . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 37 Additions and corrections to Jay Disbrow’s The Iger Comics Kingdom. re: [comments, correspondence, & even more corrections] . . . . . . 43 Henry Enoch Sharp. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 44 Part I of a new series on Golden Age Unknowns by Hames Ware & Jim Vadeboncoeur, Jr. DC & The Donenfelds . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Flip Us! About Our Cover: Joe Sinnott tells us that our color-splashed cover has never seen print in this form before. If we heard him a-right over the phone, he drew much of the basic artwork for a commercial ad—toothpaste or something—some years back. Later, he added the drawing of himself, blotting out most of a Dr. Strange figure—and filled in the space where the product had been advertised with that huge Ben Grimm head. Either way, it’s a winner, Joe! [Basic art ©2003 Marvel Characters, Inc.; self-caricature ©2003 Joe Sinnott.] Above: A pencil study of Thor that our feature interviewee drew in 2000. [Art ©2003 Joe Sinnott; Thor TM & ©2003 Marvel Characters, Inc.] Alter EgoTM is published monthly by TwoMorrows, 1812 Park Drive, Raleigh, NC 27605, USA. Phone: (919) 833-8092. Roy Thomas, Editor. John Morrow, Publisher. Alter Ego Editorial Offices: Rt. 3, Box 468, St. Matthews, SC 29135, USA. Fax: (803) 826-6501; e-mail: roydann@ntinet.com. Send subscription funds to TwoMorrows, NOT to the editorial offices. Single issues: $8 ($10 Canada, $11.00 elsewhere). Twelve-issue subscriptions: $60 US, $120 Canada, $132 elsewhere. All characters are © their respective companies. All material © their creators unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter © Roy Thomas. Alter Ego is a TM of Roy & Dann Thomas. FCA is a TM of P.C. Hamerlinck. Printed in Canada. FIRST PRINTING.

Title writer/editorial

Happiness Is Just A Guy Called Joe Perhaps it’s just as well that, because of our long, long Joe Sinnott and Irwin Donenfeld interviews this issue (on top of our other regular features and the much-awaited “Iger Counter”), I only have room for a half-page editorial. Because anything I could say about Joe Sinnott would be superfluous. Maybe it wasn’t quite fair to a number of other excellent embellishers of the 1960s to call Joe, as I did in #25’s “next-issue” ad, “Marvel’s premier Silver Age inker”—but that’s just what he’s generally considered, and I’d have to concur in that opinion. Yes, it’s partly because, among other series, he worked over the pencils of a guy named Jack Kirby on the company’s flagship title, Fantastic Four—but Joe earned that appellation by being the perfect Kirby inker on that mag. The twin facts that he was never late with an inking job, and that from him was never heard a discouraging word by production managers Sol Brodsky and (later) John Verpoorten, are just the icing on a helluva tasty cake.

™

But of course, Joe’s career didn’t begin with F.F. #5 in 1962, or with his return in #44 (Nov. 1965)—which was coincidentally being proofread in the Marvel offices around the time I started working for Stan Lee. Joe had entered the comics field more than a decade earlier, and both ace interviewer Jim Amash and a mountain of art document those years, and Joe’s work for other companies, as well. (Ever hear of a comic called Treasure Chest?) Nor did Joe exactly shrivel up when King Kirby renounced his Marvel throne for another at DC. He continued as inker of John Buscema’s F.F. and later Thor, and in the 1980s had a great run on the latter with Ron Frenz, to boot. So enjoy! Bestest,

# COMING IN AUGUST 27 NOW VIN SULLIVAN MONTHLY! GOLDEN AGE GODFATHER TO SUPERMAN & BATMAN —Plus the JACK KIRBY Covers That Never Were—TILL NOW!

• In-depth interview with VIN SULLIVAN, Superman’s first editor—and the man who egged BOB KANE into creating Batman! Art by JOE SHUSTER, CREIG FLESSEL, SHELLY MOLDOFF, FRED GUARDINEER, JACK BURNLEY, & others! • The “lost” KIRBY covers—and more! MICHAEL T. GILBERT & company show what might’ve happened if The Incredible Hulk hadn’t been canceled in 1963! • The 1948 New York Comics Convention! It never existed, but it should have! Journey to A/E’s own personal “Earth-2” with STAN LEE, SIMON & KIRBY, JULIUS SCHWARTZ, HARVEY KURTZMAN, ROY THOMAS, et al.! • The great unknowns! BUNNY KAUFMAN (the woman who wrote “Batman” in the 1940s)—MIKE SUCHORSKY—LES ZAKARIN! • Plus: FCA (with DISBROW, BECK, & SWAYZE)—ALEX TOTH—BILL SCHELLY —JIM AMASH—& MORE!!! Edited by ROY THOMAS • 108 PAGES!

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Joe Sinnott

“You Do The Best You Can...” Joltin’ JOE SINNOTT—Marvel’s Primo Silver Age Inker—Interviewed by JIM AMASH Interview Conducted and Transcribed by Jim Amash [INTERVIEWER’S NOTE: Without a doubt, Joe Sinnott was a solid professional from the moment he started at Timely Comics, producing quality work in various genres. Joe’s art at this time was good enough to make us remember him, but his real fame comes from his work from the 1960s onward. When he took over the ink chores on Jack Kirby’s Fantastic Four pencils, the quality level of that art reached the highest levels possible. Considering Kirby’s amazing talent, that’s no small achievement. As much as anyone, Joe Sinnott defined the Marvel art style with razor-sharp, efficient inking, setting the style that other inkers still follow. No matter who penciled Fantastic Four (or the many other comics Joe inked for Marvel), it was through the prism of Joe’s slick brush work that we came to know and love those characters. And now you get the chance to do the same for Joe Sinnott, the man, as if you didn’t already. —Jim.]

“My Earliest Memories Are of Drawing” JIM AMASH: Here’s the toughest question of the interview, Joe. Where and when were you born? JOE SINNOTT: Right here in Saugerties, New York, Oct. 16, 1926. Can you imagine that? JA: Joe, you’re older than the Empire State Building. SINNOTT: I am. And I’m older than many of New York’s bridges. In fact, when I was born, I don’t think there were any bridges between New York and Albany. Everything was done by ferries. Most of the bridges came into being around 1930 or ’31. JA: They built them just for you, Joe. They knew you’d be stopping by someday. Now, what got you interested in cartooning? SINNOTT: My earliest memories are of drawing. My mother had a boarding house and school teachers boarded there. For my third birthday, one of them gave me a box of crayons with a drawing of a big Indian on it. I used to copy that Indian and used those crayons down to the nub.

Joe in 1995, with a pencil drawing of the ever-lovin’, blue-eyed Thing—plus the inked version of the same art. We’re just sorry we couldn’t repro Joe’s coloring! All photos printed with this interview are courtesy of Joe Sinnott. [Art ©2003 Joe Sinnott; The Thing TM & ©2003 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

We had another boarder there, Bill Thiesen, who was a cook in a restaurant. He was from Germany and an interesting character. He was in the German submarine service in World War I and used to come home at night, wearing white pants and a white shirt. I used to sit next to him as he drew all over his pants. He’d draw Indians, cowboys, and soldiers. He was my first big influence and encouraged me to draw. He moved away a few years later, and it was like losing a close relative. I never saw him again and I’ve often wished down through the years that he could have seen what I was able to do. I think he’d have been proud of me. I was a fan of Terry and the Pirates, Flash Gordon, and Secret Agent X-9. Tim Tyler’s Luck was a favorite of mine at the time. I loved the adventure strips, and they got me interested in comics. I used to copy the Sunday strips, and the dailies, too. It was an interesting period for a kid to be growing up. As you know, the early comic books were reprints from the newspapers and I read those, too. When new characters like Superman started appearing, all the kids I knew bought and traded them. Big Little Books were popular, too, of course.

“You Do The Best You Can...”

JA: Did seeing the super-heroes fuel your imagination like the newspaper adventure strips? SINNOTT: To a big extent, yes. When the comic books came out, they were secondary to the newspapers. But when “Superman” and “Batman” came out, they developed a big following. “Batman” was my big favorite; maybe because it was better drawn. I was always looking for good art, even at that time. Batman was one of the best-drawn books of that early period. JA: Yeah, Bob Kane and all his ghosts. SINNOTT: I don’t know who all ghosted it, but all the stories were good. I listened to radio shows and knew what time all my favorites were on. I Love a Mystery, Jack Armstrong, Little Orphan Annie... all the adventure shows came on around five o’clock. Later on, around seven, The Lone Ranger, Mr. District Attorney, and stuff like that came on. I was happy when they made Terry and the Pirates into a radio show, but The Lone Ranger was probably the most popular show for kids around eight to fifteen years old and my favorite show. And The Shadow was on Sundays. You couldn’t listen to them all because sometimes the shows were on at the same time. I was a big Shadow fan, so I missed whatever else was on. They had great voices on radio. When Earl Graser, who was playing the Lone Ranger, died, Brace Beemer took over and did a great job. Radio shows were great for making you see the action in your head. It was great for the imagination.

“Tom Gill Had Many Accounts” JA: It still is. I listen to those old shows when I work. When did you decide to make art your profession? SINNOTT: That came much later. I drew all the time, even when I was in school. I was editor of my high school yearbook and we had a school newspaper called the Ulsterette, which I was the editor for. I took art in school, but we didn’t have much. We had a design class and representation class where we drew still lifes and some perspective work. No

figure drawing at all, which was what I wanted to do. When I came out of the Navy, I knew I wanted to go to art school. I was procrastinating, playing a lot of baseball. I was only 19 when I got out of the service in 1946. I worked for about 2H to 3 years in a cement plant. I was working in their rock quarry, and it was extremely cold there. In the winter of 1948, I decided to get out of the quarry and go to art school. I was looking through the New York Times for art schools, and I came across an illustrators school that sounded ideal. I got my portfolio together and went to the School of Visual Arts and showed it to Burne Hogarth. He thought it was terrific, but I thought he was pulling my leg. I figured he needed students, so that’s why he was telling me how good my portfolio was. I thought I wanted to be an illustrator, but a lot of magazines were folding then. Hogarth told me that a lot of comic book companies were looking for artists, and that my style would fit there. He encouraged me to take the cartooning course. One of my instructors was Tom Gill, who had many accounts, like Timely, which later became Marvel. He was working for Fawcett and was doing the Lone Ranger newspaper strip, too, and teaching eight hours a day. He’d go home at night and work on his accounts. He liked my work and asked me to be one of his assistants. There was an another fellow at the school, Norman Steinberg, who drew horses extremely well. We started doing a lot of the movie western stories for Tom, who was doing this work for Dell Publications. Tom drew and inked the heads, so it’d look like his work. Tom was paying us very well, and I was on the G.I. Bill, so I’d been living on a shoestring before I started with him. Working for Tom was great because I was gaining experience. I was still attending school and worked for Tom at nights and weekends. Norman and I went over to Tom’s house on the weekends and worked. He was mainly drawing westerns, like Red Warrior and Apache Kid for Stan Lee at Timely. He was also doing Kent Blake and a couple of other FBI agents. It’s amazing when I look back on the work that Tom Gill was doing; he was

Dr. Michael J. Vassallo, who generously sent us these photocopies, writes that, though signed by Tom Gill, the art at left was actually all ghosted by Joe Sinnott, for Kent Blake of the Secret Service #1 (May 1951). The splash at right from Justice Comics #24 (Nov. ’51) is signed by Joe. The artist says his first work for Timely/Atlas/Marvel was in 1950, but in those days stories often sat on the shelf for some time before being published. [©2003 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Joe Sinnott

A montage of genres by Sinnott—all done for the company most readers then called “Atlas”—so we will, too. (Top row:) Love Tales #50 (Jan. ’52)... Astonishing #10 (May ’52)... Astonishing #11 (Spring ’52)... (Bottom row:) Amazing Detective Cases #13 (July ’52)... Battlefront #9 (Jan. ’53)... Bible Tales for Young Folks #1 (Aug. ’53). Doc V., who sent these splashes, points out that the romance story shows a “strong George Klein influence”... ironic, since in the late 1960s, Klein, who by then had long inked “Superman,” et al., for DC, was assigned to embellish John Buscema’s Avengers primarily because his inking resembled Joe’s! [©2003 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

turning out so much work that it was unbelievable. I have to give all the credit to Tom for giving me my start in comics. JA: Did he have much time to give you pointers in storytelling, since he had all that work to do? SINNOTT: I really don’t recall him doing that. I think you pick things up as you go along. We’d watch him as he drew the stories. Storytelling just seemed to come naturally to me. Of course, in those days, we worked from full scripts, so it was easy. I mean, it just goes hand in hand with being an artist. You have visualize the story like a movie director and pick out the most interesting way to tell a story. Storytelling never seemed to be a problem with the artists I knew. Some may have told the story better than others, but I never recall hearing anyone saying that storytelling was hard. JA: What was Burne Hogarth like as a teacher? SINNOTT: He was the best. I can’t imagine anyone being any more dynamic as he was. He was so forceful. Even when he wasn’t drawing, just his speeches alone were so intelligent. He knew what he was talking about. Can you imagine sitting in his class watching him draw? It was unbelievable to watch. Other students would sneak away from their classes just to watch him. He was a great character. Did you ever meet him? JA: Yes, at a San Diego Convention. He was talking comics with Gil Kane, and you can imagine how that went. Nobody near them could get a word in edgewise. We just stood and listened, and loved it!

SINNOTT: And of course, neither man was ever wrong about anything! [laughter] But I think Hogarth would have won an argument with anyone. I liked his early work on Tarzan, but he got too decorative. He put in every detail in the jungle and on the vines and leaves; it got too busy.

“I’ve Worked for Stan for 53 Years” JA: Did you go to work at Timely or St. John Publications after you worked with Tom Gill? SINNOTT: The first place that ever paid me directly was St. John’s. Somebody in class told me that there was a woman editor (I don’t remember her name, but she looked like a model) over there who was looking for someone to do a Millie the Model type of feature. I didn’t have any of that type of work in my portfolio; I had mostly adventure stuff. But I took it over to her and she must have liked it because she gave me a five-page script for Mopsy. Mopsy was actually quite a famous feature at that time, but I did a filler called “Trudy.” It couldn’t have been any simpler. But this was when I started working for Tom Gill, so I only did that one story. Tom was paying me more than St. John, and he was doing the type of stories I wanted to do. Most of what I did for Tom was for Stan Lee, and I did that for about nine months. We had two weeks off from school, and that’s when I got married. Even though I was making good money from Tom, I wanted to do my

“You Do The Best You Can...”

own stuff. I said to my wife, “I’m going to go to see Stan Lee and ask him for work.” I was already doing a lot of Tom’s work anyway.

what he wanted, even if if wasn’t a natural position to draw the character in. That’s why Stan was successful.

Stan wasn’t surprised to meet me, because he knew Tom had people helping him. He gave me a three-page western filler called “The Man Who Wouldn’t Die.” That’s how I started out with Stan. Then he started giving me other crime and western stories. Every week, I got a different story, as you would expect in those days. This was 1950.

JA: Do you remember if Stan had assistant editors or art directors?

JA: What was Stan Lee like when you first met him? SINNOTT: He was young in those days. Stan’s only about three years older than I am. He was effervescent; you couldn’t get a word in edgewise with Stan. He did all the talking and I was impressed with his personality, just like I was with Hogarth. If you were at a party with Hogarth, his would be the personality that stood out. Everybody would want to converse with him because he was so interesting. Stan’s the same way. Stan’s a good guy to listen to. [laughs]

SINNOTT: Oh, sure. I remember Bob Brown used to be one of his assistants. Timely was in the Empire State Building in those early days, and I used to go up there and sit in a little reading room, with four or five other artists. It got so that every week I went up there, the same guys would be in this room. Bob Powell, Gene Colan, people like that. I got to talk to them. Syd Shores was working there, too. Bob Brown would come out and say, for instance, “Gene, Stan will see you now,” and Colan would go into his office. They’d be in there maybe ten or fifteen minutes, and he’d leave with another script to draw. I’d go in, Stan would be behind his desk and make a few comments, but he seldom wanted anything changed.

Once in a while, Stan would say, “This would be more effective if you exaggerated this JA: In these early days, when In the 1950s, Joe used to chat with staffers Gene Colan, Bob Brown, and Syd more.” It’d always be handing in a job to Stan, did you Shores when he came in to the Atlas offices. Years later, he inked a run of constructive criticism. There’d be have to submit the pencils first? Colan Captain Americas, as per this splash from #124 (April 1970), repro’d from a stack of scripts on the left side a photostat of the original art provided by Joe. [©2003 Marvel Characters, Inc.] SINNOTT: Never. And I was still of his desk, typed on legal yellow going to school when I started with paper. He’d take one off the top and didn’t know what he’d be handing him. He gave me a script and I’d go home and draw the story. You know you. It could be a war story or a western or anything. You took it home this from your own experiences: when you’re young, you’re so enthused and were expected to do a professional job on it. I really didn’t deal with about the work that you stayed up until it was finished. When you get anyone else but Stan. Everybody saw Stan. older, it becomes a job! In those days, the stories were only five or six pages. I’ve worked with Stan for 53 years and can only remember one time when I had to change something. It was a splash page. I followed the script precisely, and Stan didn’t like this story or the splash page. It was an Indian story, and the writer asked me to draw typical scenes around the Indian village. It was a montage of things that happened around an Indian camp: kids playing, an Indian brave carrying a deer around his shoulders, a woman making clothes, things like that. When I brought it in, Stan said, “Joe, this has no guts. All I want you to show is the Indian running towards you with a tomahawk in his hand. That’ll make the reader want to turn the page.” He was right, even though that wasn’t in the script. So I drew the Indian coming at the reader, wearing war paint and carrying a tomahawk. The quietness of the Indian village wouldn’t have made anyone want to turn the page. JA: Did Stan pay you for redrawing that page? SINNOTT: I don’t think so, but it didn’t matter. I was happy to redraw the page. Stan always wanted his artists to exaggerate whatever was written in the script. If Stan said, “Show the super-hero leaning over and pushing a rock,” you knew to take the drama to its ultimate point. That’s

“I’d See People Sitting behind Boards” JA: So you didn’t see people like Mike Sekowsky or Carl Burgos, did you? SINNOTT: I knew they were there, but I didn’t interact with them. I’d see people sitting behind boards and doing artwork or paste-ups, but I never spent any time there. When I left Stan’s office, there’d be a rack with the latest Timely Comics and you could take a book if you had work in it. You couldn’t take any other books. JA: Do you remember anything about Syd Shores, Gene Colan, or Bob Powell? SINNOTT: Bob Powell was a nice guy and a competent artist, but I didn’t get to know him like I did Syd Shores. I got to know Syd quite well. It was really a big disappointment to me when he died, because I’d lost a good friend. We’d spent a lot of time together, and his wife was extremely nice, too. Syd was a nice person and a terrific artist. I loved the way he foreshortened figures. He did Captain America in the 1940s and did a lot of westerns during the time I’ve been talking about. The thing about Syd I always remembered is that he could really pencil and

Joe Sinnott

ink. He used to say, “I don’t understand why they don’t give the inker more credit. The inker does as much work as the penciler.” To him, there was no difference, and the inker should have gotten the same credit as the penciler. In those days, there weren’t many teams, except for Simon and Kirby and maybe a couple of others. It was only later on that Stan started giving the inker some credit. He’d usually relegate the inker to the kind of credits he gave letterers and colorists. JA: You know one thing that bothered me a lot? When I’d see the credits call the penciler an “artist” and the inker an “inker;” intimating that the inker really isn’t an artist.

Joe sure put in the time! Splash pages from Adventures into Weird Worlds #25 (Jan. ’54), Journey into Unknown Worlds #24 (Feb. ’54), and AIWW #30 (June ’54). We hope they didn’t scare Dr. Wertham. They obviously didn’t bother Doc V., who sent ’em to us. [©2003 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

SINNOTT: Oh, I know it! In those days, it bothered you, but you really didn’t care as much as you did later on. It was a job and you mainly wanted to get the work done. We didn’t even care about getting the art back in those days. I suppose if you pressed them about it, you might have gotten a page or two. If there was a story that you were happy about, Stan would let you have a set of [photo]stats of that story. I remember when they were on Park Avenue and Marvel was really on a shoestring in those days, late ’50s and early ’60s. Stan had to go down the street if he wanted [photo]stats made of something. Can you believe that? They didn’t even have a stat machine. At one point, Stan didn’t even have a secretary. He did everything himself. Things had gotten tough.

JA: So you never dealt with Al Sulman, who did some editing at Timely? SINNOTT: Not at all. The name doesn’t even ring a bell. Stan was the man to deal with. JA: By the way, when you went in and delivered work and got a script, would they pay you then? SINNOTT: Oh, no. They were very good about paying, but payday was every other week. There was a period later on when you didn’t know when you were getting a check. And after that, when I was put under contract, it was just like punching a clock. I knew when I was going to get paid, and they took out taxes on you, too.

I remember when Cadence owned the company [by the end of the 1960s] and they did a good job. They gave us vacation pay and 401Ks and pension plans. They treated us extremely well. Martin Goodman gave us a bottle of wine for Christmas, but you had to come in and pick it up. We didn’t get the other things until Cadence owned the company. We would have a Christmas party, but having a wife and four kids, I never had the time to go to them... or get that bottle of booze, either. [laughs] Cadence was a quality company to work for. JA: Did you ever spend any time with Martin Goodman?

“You Do The Best You Can...” JA: Same thing happened to Simon and Kirby. They had a story in Bullseye called “Tomahawks for Two” and the tomahawks were whited out. [INTERJECTION FROM ROY: I remember Jack Kirby reminiscing about this one day over lunch with several of us Bullpenners. He said, quote, about the Comics Code Authority: “They kept taking the tomahawks out of their hands and leaving me with a bunch of smiling Indians!”] SINNOTT: What was even worse than that was that, in the same story, the wagon train was under attack and you couldn’t show the Indian being shot in the panel. He had to be shot in the next panel because we couldn’t show him being killed in the same panel as the rifle was shooting. No speed lines if someone was hitting somebody, either.

“Back When History Was Fun” JA: Since you were doing different genres for Timely, I’m wondering if you had a favorite. SINNOTT: Not really. I loved doing all of them: war, westerns, science-fiction, and horror. I really loved doing the war stories because I’m a World War II buff. I loved drawing uniforms and all the gritty stuff. I used to put a lot of detail in my stuff. I was looking back on those stories recently and I thought, “I can’t believe I did all that work.” If I had to do it again, I’d take off for the hills and hide. JA: You did a great job on that Castro story. You really captured his likeness. SINNOTT: That’s one of my favorite stories. That was a good story, and I thought I captured his likeness very well. That’s one story where I asked Stan for stats. Of course, that was when we thought Castro was the good guy. That’s back when history was fun. JA: When you were working on a regular series, like Kent Blake or Apache Kid, did you feel a certain propriety towards those characters as opposed to non-serial stories? SINNOTT: No, not really. It was just another book to do. Joe says he drew this splash featuring a “grotesque-looking... woman,” but the Comics Code ordered her face changed throughout this story from Uncanny Tales #29 (March ’55); thanks to Doc V. [©2003 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

SINNOTT: Never. I saw him a couple of times. Later on, I got to know people like Jim Galton [president of Marvel Entertainment Group from the mid-’70s through the mid-’90s]. We had plenty of good conversations. JA: How did you react to the Kefauver Senate investigations into the comic books? SINNOTT: I saw it on television. The one book Kefauver held up as an example of how comic books were was a story called “Sarah,” which I had drawn. You know, the horror books were so popular then, and we had a lot of them. They were fun to do, but it was EC who caused the problem, not Timely. The lesser companies were really gory, too. By this time, “Sarah” was corrected by the art department. It was a huge splash of a woman’s head and she was grotesque-looking, but by the time they finished with her, she looked like Aunt Bea on The Andy Griffith Show. They made her pleasant-looking, but we still got complaints. There was an Indian story that I did where an old Indian chief was challenged by a young Indian. They had a scarf in their mouths and each man had an end in his mouth; they had knives in their hands and were dueling. The young buck kills the chief and gets the guns from the gunrunners. When the book came out, they’d whited out the knives in their hands. The young readers must have wondered what killed the chief!

JA: How much work were you doing a day? SINNOTT: Well, when I was doing something like “The Battle of Waterloo,” I’d be lucky if I got a page done. I’d pencil a page in the morning and... well, you lose a lot of time doing reference. I had to make my drawings look authentic. I’d try to pencil a page in the morning and ink it in the afternoon. Now, if I was doing something simple, like a science-fiction story, I could go faster because I was making the stuff up. I’d whip out the pencils rather quickly and spend more time on the inking part. I could probably pencil two pages by 11:00 and then ink one in the afternoon. But one full page was my normal rate, because I used to put a lot into my pages. JA: Oh, I know. And you were never discouraged from signing your work, were you? SINNOTT: I always kept my signature small, though, if you noticed. But I must have been making it bigger, because one time Stan said to me, “Gee, Joe, your signature’s getting big.” I said, “Yeah, but it’s still not as big as yours is, Stan.” [mutual laughter] Stan’s name was all over the place. JA: Stan wasn’t the only person writing. Do you remember any other writers? SINNOTT: We had a guy who lived near me, though I never met him, named Ed Jurist. He wrote quite a few stories for Timely. The guy who wrote most of the other stories for Stan was Hank Chapman. I saw him

Joe Sinnott

In the Two-Gun Kid issue for July 1959, the Comics Code made Marvel remove all the Indians’ knives. “Unbelievable!” says Joe—but we believe it. This art was repro’d from photostats of the original, unretouched (and previously unprinted) art provided by Joe. [©2003 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Fidel Castro as Timely/Atlas/Marvel hero!? Joe really knocked himself out on this 4pager for Battle #66 (Oct. ’59). Repro’d from photostats of the original art, sent by Joltin’ Joe hisself. [©2003 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

“You Do The Best You Can...”

It’s déjà vu all over again! Two splash pages by Joe from Spy Thrillers #1 (Nov. ’54), each with the hero being attacked in an alley. Hey, don’t blame Joe—he didn’t write the scripts! Thanks to Doc V. [©2003 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

once at the office, but I never really talked to him. He was fairly tall and wasn’t thin like Stan. Chapman was big and muscular. He had reddish, sandy-colored hair and was an older guy, much older than Stan. He was probably about 40 in the mid-1950s. I don’t know whatever happened to him, but he was a prodigious writer. You know, Ed Jurist used to write comics and novels. JA: I saw his name on an episode of M*A*S*H*. SINNOTT: He probably did that. There can’t be two names like that. We talked on the phone many times, and he always wanted to collaborate on a newspaper strip. But he could probably write his stuff in about four hours, and it’d take me about four weeks to draw it. Ed was a very intelligent guy, but all business. He was always looking for a way to make money. You know how it is when you’re a freelancer; you’re always looking for other accounts. One good thing about the comics: I always had all the work I wanted, even during hard times. There was a time in the 1960s when I did some penciling for Paul Reinman. He was doing stuff for other companies and I’d help him out. JA: Did you draw any of the hero stuff for Archie Publications? SINNOTT: No. I penciled many of Paul’s western and mystery stories for ACG. JA: We haven’t mentioned the romance stories you did at Timely. SINNOTT: They were very popular in those days, but only girls bought Spy Thrillers #2 (Jan. ’55) featured a splash panel drawn by Joe Maneely—fronting a story that was otherwise pure Sinnott! Thanks to Doc V.—whose in-depth coverage of the marvelous Mr. Maneely is coming up in Alter Ego #28! [©2003 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Joe Sinnott

them. We had a few artists who really specialized in those books. John Romita drew great romance stories, but then again, John was great at anything he drew. I did romance stories, but they weren’t as satisfying as the other things I did.

SINNOTT: They told me. Stan called me and said, “Joe, Martin Goodman told me to suspend operations because I have all this artwork in house and have to use it up before I can hire you again.” It turned out to be six months, in my case. He may have called back some of the other artists later, but that’s what happened with me.

“You Guys from Timely Burn Me Up!”

I didn’t go over to DC when that happened, because I had a friend who worked for Watson-Guptill Publications, and his son-in-law was a writer who’d written a comic strip. He asked if I would illustrate it and said, “Joe, I know I can sell this to King Features because the editor over there is a friend of mine.” I spent three months on this comic strip, which was all about a frogman in the Navy. I thought it was a good strip. Unfortunately, it was the wrong time for this kind of idea, because they were looking for humor strips. My friend showed it ’round to other syndicates and it didn’t sell, so I wasted that three months. The next year, Lloyd Bridges’ Sea Hunt appeared on television and they had the very same idea we had.

JA: In the late 1950s when things weren’t going well at Timely, they had occasional page rate cuts. How were you told about it when it’d happen? SINNOTT: Stan’s secretary would call me. She’d tell me that things weren’t going well and ask me if I’d take a $3 rate cut. Well, what could you say? I needed the work because I was raising a family. And the other companies weren’t doing much better. Places like EC had folded up. About three months later, she’d call again and ask if I’d accept another cut. Now, different artists got different rates and I was getting a good rate. I was up to $46 a page for pencils and inks and that was a good rate for 1956, when the decline started. I was down to $21 a page when Timely stopped hiring me. And they expected the same quality of work. But I still had to knock it out, and that’s when I started looking for other work, like billboards, record covers, etc. JA: I have you listed as having inked some romance and crime comics, like Gang Busters, and some mystery stories, too, for DC in 1957 and ’58. SINNOTT: I don’t remember how I got that work. I might have been asked to do it by whomever I ghosted for. JA: How did you find out that Timely was stopping production?

I went down to Classics Illustrated and did some work. That was the only bad experience I ever had in comics. One guy was putting out some children’s encyclopedias and I went down there with my samples. The art director there was Jack Kamen [former artist for EC Comics]. EC had folded by this time and he was out of comics. Kamen gave me some work and we were in the “K’s” when I started. They’d give me about ten pages for each letter of the alphabet; this went on for about a year or so. It was a lot of fun doing this, and you’d be amazed at the guys who went there looking for work: Bill Elder, Reed Crandall, Angelo Torres... all the great EC stars. But there was no work available. Around this time, I went over to DC to look for work, and I wish I could remember the name of the editor I dealt with. He said to me, “You

“You Do The Best You Can...”

guys from Timely burn me up! You wouldn’t come over here when things were going good at Timely, but as soon as you don’t get work over there, you come over here and expect me to give you work.”

That period from ’58 to 1961 was a pretty interesting time, because we were doing all those monster books. Stan was trying to find a new trend, and the monsters were selling pretty well, and they might have even gotten more popular if the super-heroes hadn’t taken off. They killed the monster books.

I picked up my samples and walked out, and someone grabbed me as I was walking out the door; I think it was Julie Schwartz. He said, “Hey, don’t pay any attention to that guy. He’s that way all the time.” Julie looked at my stuff and said, “It looks pretty good, but I don’t have enough work to go around. We’ve already given a lot of the work out to the other Timely guys who came over.” This was a traumatic period for me.

When we started doing the monster books, the prices were about the same as before the crash. When I drew those five “Thor” stories, I was making about $21 a page for pencils and inks. I made a little more for doing the covers. I’m glad I saved all my records, unlike Chic Stone, who, when he retired, destroyed all his records. I wish he hadn’t done that.

Getting back to the encyclopedias: the only thing that troubled me was that I had to show them the pencils before inking them. So I’d have to take bus rides from Saugerties to New York to show them to Jack Kamen, and that was a hundred-mile trip. I’d have to go home, do the inks, and bring them back.

Two samples of Joe’s work for the Catholic comic Treasure Chest, I’d bring ten pages in and I’d only get paid for six repro’d from J.S.’s photostats of the original art. The cover or seven pages. Everybody who worked on these Stan Lee once told commemorated the passing of General Douglas MacArthur, hero of books kept being owed money. When the book was me that he never wrote World War II. [©2003 the respective copyright holder.] finally finished, the publisher skipped town, owing down anything he ever me about $1500. He owed some people even more. I did, so there’s no like Jack very much and want to stress that he wasn’t to blame for what records of anything he wrote before the Marvel Age. I used to send Stan happened. stuff and ask if he wrote these stories. Stan would answer, “Joe, I don’t

That was when I started working for Treasure Chest. It was a comic book that was only distributed to Catholic schools. Being Catholic, my kids saw these comics and showed them to me. Reed Crandall and Fran Matera were working for them. The company was based in Ohio, and I sent samples of my work to them when my work at Timely dried up. They liked my work and sent me a script right away, about Pearl Harbor. They told me they’d give me all the scripts I wanted.

have records of anything I did.” He was a busy guy and it didn’t seem important to him. JA: Did you know much about the people who ran Treasure Chest?

JA: Before we get into that, I’d like to stay with Treasure Chest for a moment.

SINNOTT: No. I know it was George Pflaum’s company. I dealt with the editors on the telephone. They’d send me a full script and I was expected to turn in a professional job. They never asked me for any corrections. I remember doing “The Life Story of Bishop Walsh,” which was very interesting. That was a 64-page story, broken up in about ten issues. The editor came from Ohio and asked me to meet him in Maryknoll, which is near the Hudson, because the Bishop was a Maryknoll Priest. I went down there to Terrytown, and we went to the mission. I couldn’t believe the place; it was fantastic. They let me go through the place and I gathered up a lot of reference. The editor and I spent the whole day there. That was one of the very few times I actually met anyone who worked for Treasure Chest. He was the first editor there, though I can’t remember his name right now. He left the company before long.

SINNOTT: Okay. The people there couldn’t have been nicer, and I worked with them until they went out of business. They had a couple of other flyers, but the comic was their main thing. It was a help to the kids. They had a variety of interesting things in it: biographies of sports stars, inventors, and the like. I loved doing those types of stories. Of course, I couldn’t give up my Marvel work, because that was my breadand-butter.

The second editor was Bob Wischmeyer. Bob wrote some stories, as did Helen Gillum, Berry Reese, among others. We speculated on a newspaper strip called Johnny Hawk, All-American. I really didn’t want to do it because of the bad experience I’d had when doing the frogman strip a few years earlier. But I felt I owed Bob a favor because he gave me all the work I wanted and he looked out for me. He called me one day and told me about Johnny Hawk. He sent me the script and

Then, Stan Lee called me after Timely had been shut down for about six months and offered me work. I said, “Stan, I can’t put all my eggs in one basket, but I’ll certainly do a book a month for you.” It turned out I did about two books a month, if you count covers. That’s how I got back to work with Stan. He understood my circumstances.

“Treasure Chest”

Joe Sinnott

I must have done hundreds of stories for Charlton. I could really knock them out. Sal Gentile was the editor, and then Dick Giordano came in. I got paid $8 a page, and then it went to $7 a page,which was like a dollar a panel.

I drew a month’s worth of work. The problem was that this story was 25 years behind the times. If it’d come out in 1937, it’d have been very good. But this was the early 1960s, when people were burning down college campuses, and all Johnny was concerned about was whether or not he’d make the basketball team, or if he’d have time to meet his girl at the malt shop.

JA: What was Vinnie Colletta like? SINNOTT: He was amazing, I’ll tell you. I’ll really stand by him as a professional. I know you’ve heard all the stories about Vinnie. If Stan needed a story by tomorrow, Vinnie would get it done. He used to burn the midnight oil. He had a studio in Journal Square in Jersey City and would work around the clock to get something done.

I knocked myself out on this, and as you know, Jim, when you spend all day working and knocking yourself out to make money for the family, you get tired. The only time I had to do this strip was at night, but I felt I owed Bob. Of course, it didn’t sell, but it looked good! JA: When didn’t your work look good? I sure can’t think of a time it didn’t. So, why did Treasure Chest stop doing comics? SINNOTT: It was probably in the early ’80s or maybe the late 1970s. A lot of the Catholic schools were closing, probably for economic reasons. The comic was only distributed to Catholic schools. They quit doing the comics because they didn’t have the outlets for them anymore. They tried putting the comics on the newsstand, but they were drowned out by Marvel and DC. They only did one comic, and it couldn’t make it on the newsstand. It was a great educational comic book.

“Vinnie Colletta Was a Character!” JA: You also started working for Charlton in 1959. How’d that come about? SINNOTT: One day, I got a call from Vinnie Colletta, who wanted to know if I was interested in penciling romance stories for him. He knew people needed work because he’d been around. He said, “I have an account with Charlton Publications. They don’t pay much, but I’d like you to do the pencils and I’ll do the inking.”

Of course, there were a lot of guys who didn’t want Vinnie working on their stuff. I certainly found that out while working on the romance stuff. Vinnie would eliminate characters in the panels and silhouette others. He took all kinds of shortcuts, and he wouldn’t do your work justice. But he got the work done, and made the deadlines, which was the main thing. Personally, I worked with him all those years, but never met him. I had trouble getting paid by him. He got paid by Charlton and then he’d pay me. Vinnie Colletta was a character!

I’d call up his studio and there was always someone working there to answer the phone. He had someone doing his backgrounds. I’d say, “Is Vinnie there? Let me talk to Vinnie.” The guy’d answer, “Oh, he’s not here. He’s down at the race tracks in Florida.” Vinnie was down there on my money, you know. When Marvel had a convention in 1975, Vinnie was in charge of putting it on. I’d never seen Vinnie... not even a picture of him. My wife and I went to the show and I said, “I’ve never seen Vinnie Colletta, but I’ll bet I could pick him out.” There were over a thousand people in the ballroom. I looked around and saw this guy with gray hair, a white suit, with a black shirt open down to the navel, and a big medallion hanging from his neck. I told my wife, Betty, “That’s Vince Colletta!” I walked

“You Do The Best You Can...” that, so they rushed this comic book into production. It was hard to find reference on them, because they weren’t that well known in America yet. I had a lot of trouble with the reference on their likenesses, but I thought it came out pretty well, all things considered. I did The FBI and Twelve O’clock High for them, too. The only time I saw anyone there was when I went and picked up the scripts. They didn’t want to see the pencils first, either. I just rushed right into the Beatles comic and they loved what I did. Fortunately, I was able to get back all the art to that story, though I did have to buy them. Luckily, I got them at a fairly good price, but I’m glad I got them. JA: So, in 1958, you started back with Stan. Tell me how you went from doing complete art jobs to inking other people’s work. SINNOTT: Stan called me out of the blue and said, “I got a western story here that Jack can’t ink. Can you fit it in your schedule?” I told him to send it up; I wasn’t going into the city anymore. I did everything by phone.

Is this mutant tale from Tales of Suspense #6 (Nov. 1959) one of those famous/infamous “prototype” stories, pointing the way to X-Men #1 four years later? Thanks to Doc Vassallo. You can read all about the “prototypes” in our upcoming Halloween issue! [©2003 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

over to him and of course, it was Vince Colletta. He put on a good convention. JA: Did he ever pay you off? SINNOTT: Oh, yeah. He was into everything. He did comics and photography. He was a real character. When he was the art director at DC, he called me and tried to get me to come over. Stan Lee knew I’d get calls like that every once in a while. He’d say, “Whatever they offer to pay you, I’ll pay you more. Stay with us.” JA: Was Charlton aware that you were penciling stuff for Colletta? SINNOTT: Oh, yeah. They knew. I continued to work with Vinnie until 1963. I didn’t deal directly with Charlton, but at the same time, Dick Giordano and I were very good friends. I used to pencil industrial comics for him. We did comics for General Electric, Radio Shack, and other places. Dick inked them and John D’Agostino lettered them. Dick and I did a lot of odds and ends stuff, and Dick also did some stuff for Treasure Chest. He could pencil and ink; he was good. We’ve always been very good friends and I admire him very much. When I did the Beatles comic for Dell, I had 64 pages to do and Dick Giordano helped me on the Ringo segment. I believe he did most of the pencils on that segment and I did the inking, so it’d look like my work.

“I Could Make Just as Much Inking” JA: That’s a good segue into Dell Publications. How’d you get started with them? SINNOTT: I did a cartoon likeness of actress Jane Withers for Vic Perzio. He really liked what I did and was good friends with editor Matt Murphy at Dell. Matt called me up and asked if I was interested in doing the Beatles comic, because Vic had said I did good likenesses. The Beatles were about to come to America and Dell wanted to capitalize on Joe kept meticulous records of his work—in the case of this sample page, of the pencils he did “for Vincent Colletta” at Charlton. [©2003 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

A couple of weeks later, Stan called me and asked me to ink another Kirby story. Jack didn’t want to ink his stuff, and Stan needed someone to do it. Of course, you know Jack didn’t ink the way he penciled. Not to belittle his inking, but it detracted from his pencils. Those pencils were so good, but his inking wasn’t... at least, not in my opinion. Jack needed good inkers to make his work look the way it should. Frank Giacoia did a good job, and I’d say I did, too. JA: Yeah, Giacoia sure knew how to ink. Did you know him? SINNOTT: Not too well, but I knew him a little bit. We’d get together if there was a convention somewhere nearby. Frank could draw, but there are inkers who can’t draw well. He didn’t have that problem. His problem was that he wasn’t that dedicated. He was the type who’d rather watch television or go to a ballgame. I didn’t do that. I sat down in the morning and started working and worked all day, only taking time out for lunch. I worked eight hours a day, six days a week. Frank was more laid back and took his time doing things. But he was a terrific inker. Frank and Kirby were a good match, they really were. JA: I think the only match at Marvel that was better was you and Kirby.

Joe Sinnott

machinery took time and Jack did big drawings, so it was easy to do with a brush. It was fun. After a while, I realized how good the characters were, and that made it more fun for me, too. JA: Were Jack’s pencils tight when you started inking him? SINNOTT: Oh, yeah. I can never remember a time when they weren’t. And they were always consistent. I can remember Fantastic Four #5, and it was penciled just as tight as the last Fantastic Four story he did. I could see over the years that Jack was continually changing and growing. His figures were always the same. JA: Well, not quite. In those early monster stories, Jack’s figures were leaner, and the arms and legs were kind of like whip cords. Look at Thor in his first story, and notice how much leaner Thor was there. Compare that to 1969 and notice the chunkier figures. SINNOTT: I’ve got to admit you’re right, Jim. It seemed like the early Thor was much younger than the later, more mature Thor. Certainly, John Buscema muscled him up. JA: And Jack did, too. His figures got squatter and had more weight on them. Maybe it was because Jack was putting on more weight? [laughs] Artists do that sometimes. Joe says Dick Giordano helped him with the 64-page The Beatles Story comic he did for Dell/Western at the height of Beatlemania in 1964, though not necessarily on this page. But didn’t the Fab Four come to America in February of ’64, not ’63? [©2003 Western Publishing, Inc.]

SINNOTT: I appreciate that very much, Jim. I always admired Frank’s work and I often told him that. It’s too bad he wasn’t more dedicated, but he did enough work to leave a nice legacy. JA: When you started inking, you didn’t jump in to it full time. It was just a story here and there, right? SINNOTT: Right, because I had so much other stuff I was doing. I basically stopped doing full art for Marvel around 1960, but I still did some of that for about three years afterwards. I was still doing work for Treasure Chest, and that work was very time-consuming because of all the reference work I had to do. But I loved doing it. JA: How did you feel about Stan turning you into an inker? SINNOTT: It didn’t bother me at all. It was a job, and I was in it to make a living. I could make just as much inking, and juggling that work with my other accounts worked out just fine. And it was easy inking Kirby’s work, even though he had a lot of stuff in there, like machinery. Some guys were more difficult than others, but not Kirby. Some of the

SINNOTT: Well, look at the splash page to the first “Thor” story. He looks more like a teenager. But you’re right. I can remember when Thor split the tree with his hammer... he looked thinner there, too.

“You Do The Best You Can...”

Joe admits (see p. 20) that it bothered him that for years he wasn’t given credit as the inker of Jack Kirby’s pencils on Thor’s origin in Journey into Mystery #83 (Aug. 1962). Thirty issues’ worth of Thundergodliness can be found, in black-&-white, in Essential Thor, Vol. 1. The photo shows Joe and Jack together at the 1975 San Diego Comic-Con. [©2003 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

JA: And even in those early stories, like the “Pildorr” story you inked. SINNOTT: That’s funny, because I was just looking at that story the other day and he was quite lean, even in that spacesuit. I had never really thought about that before. As I think about it now, Jack’s stuff did get more dynamic. You’re right about the figure work; even his women got more fleshed out.

“I Like What You’re Doing! Keep It Up!” JA: It seems to me that you were adding to his pencils, too. The Joe Sinnott style shows through. There’s a certain illustrative look you gave to it. I could tell you were changing some things. SINNOTT: It’s true, but you don’t like to say that you’re fixing Jack’s work. When I got the work, they were full pencils. But Stan told me, “I like what you’re doing. Keep it up.” Maybe I was adding stuff subconsciously. JA: I think so, because your stuff was more illustrative than Jack’s. SINNOTT: Oh, there’s no question about that. Of course, I did smooth out a lot of things and made Johnny a little handsomer, Sue a little leaner in the hips, stuff like that. JA: Later on, you started inking Jack a little slicker, staying truer to Jack’s pencils than you did before. SINNOTT: I did. In the early F.F.s, I changed the ears on Jack’s figures and made them a little more Alex Raymond-like. I did make changes for a while, but it wasn’t Jack’s work then, so I started keeping closer to what Jack had penciled. I did make some changes as I went along, but I

Before F.F. #5 and Journey into Mystery #83, Joe inked this Kirby-penciled “monster story” in Strange Tales #94 (March ’62). Repro’d from a photocopy of the original art, furnished by J.S. [©2003 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Joe Sinnott

Getting back to John Buscema, I must say I always loved inking his Thor work. I thought some of my best work in comics was working on his Thor pencils, but back there in my mind, I always believed John thought I was too slick in inking his work. In fact, I believe he said that in an interview in Alter Ego, so I had guessed correctly. But I inked it the way I thought it should look. You know, sometimes I’ll look back at some of my old work that I haven’t seen it in years, and I think, “Gee, I must have had a good brush then.” Somebody asked me one time if I ever did any football stuff and I said, “Yeah. Ron Frenz and I did a comic book for Marvel called NFL Super Pro. It didn’t last that long, but we did a bunch of covers. The other day, I found one of those old comics; it had Captain America on the cover, too. What hit me first was that I thought it was a pretty good ink job, and that I must have had a good brush. did change my approach a little. I gave his work a slickness that superheroes should have. That genre demands a certain slickness. Maybe I got too slick sometimes, but I tried to keep it clean and slick. I think I helped make the book better. I used to love working with John Buscema and he was a great inker when he was in the mood to do it. He did some nice Tarzans and Conans. He had a little roughness in his ink style that I liked. I didn’t think it applied too much to the F.F., but it certainly worked with Conan and even Thor. JA: As great as your work went with Jack’s, I think most people generally seem to think that you and Mike Royer, who came along later, were two of Kirby’s best inkers. Both of you were very slick. SINNOTT: That’s true. I always felt Royer was the only Kirby inker who was ever influenced by what I had done. I knew Frank Giacoia even before I started inking, and I loved his heavy brush work. JA: I wonder if you didn’t influence Giacoia, too, because his work started looking even slicker in the 1960s. SINNOTT: I think Stan Lee may have had something to do with that. I know he asked some of his inkers to look at my stuff, because a few guys have told me that. He really liked that slickness of style in his super-hero books, and I always gave Stan what he was looking for. Stan used to say the same sort of things to pencilers. He’d tell the guys to draw hero books like Kirby or do westerns like John Severin. In the 1950s, when I was doing westerns... Stan was always a big admirer of John Severin’s work. Once, Stan said to me, “Try to make your covers look like John Severin’s stuff. He’s really great.” But who wouldn’t like John’s work? I really loved his gritty inking, especially on his western and war stories. John’s forte was not super-heroes, but he did everything very well. He was unbelievable!

“I Knew Special Things Were Brewing” JA: I understand that completely. Once you went back to Marvel and still doing other accounts on the side, was there a time when you felt the company’s future seemed secure, as opposed to the late 1950s? SINNOTT: I was fairly confident by ’62, ’63, because once I saw the new books, which were so good, and Stan and Jack and Ditko had hit their stride, I knew they were more than just another book. Before, we had always been hitting for new trends and now we really had one. JA: Can you pinpoint the time when you realized the Marvel superhero books were gaining in popularity? SINNOTT: Probably about the time Thor was introduced. I thought he was a great character. I thought the same thing when I was given F.F. #5 to ink. The Hulk was another great character, though I didn’t work on the early books. In those days, Marvel didn’t send me copies of all their books. I had to see them at the newsstand, and I wasn’t going there to check them out. The secondary characters were great, too. Stan and Jack were cooking, and you couldn’t miss what was happening. I knew special things were brewing. I never discussed scripts with Stan or Jack. They figured I was a professional and that I should handle it. Even when I penciled the stories, Stan never called to discuss the scripts. Even when the pencils were a little vague (I’m not talking about Jack’s work now), like if a character was supposed to be smiling or sneering or what, because there were no captions or dialogue to follow. I’d be left in the dark and had to figure it out myself. JA: I know the feeling. A lot of companies do computer-lettering now, and I get the pages and have no idea what’s happening, though

“You Do The Best You Can...” the brush. I drew as I went along with the brush. I didn’t have to add to the penciled breakdowns. I just drew over the stick figures with a brush. Now with the Spider-Man strip I was recently working on, it was different. There were some notable people in the strip, like President Bush and some Hollywood characters. Stan said, “Joe, would you pick up those characters and make them look like they really do?” Stan knows I’m good at likenesses. I got a picture of President Bush and repenciled the face before I inked him.

The Saviuk/Sinnott Spider-Man Sunday for Dec. 9, 2001, sported a revamped version of The Chameleon, whose face could metamorphose instantly into that of Brando, Bush, or whomever. [©2003 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

thankfully Archie Comics doesn’t work that way. At Marvel, I’d just get penciled pages or just breakdowns and be lost, story-wise. SINNOTT: It was like that years ago, even in the 1970s. I’d get pages that weren’t lettered, and while the pencils might have been complete, there were no dialogue notes of any kind. I used to think we were doing work for nothing, because I’d ink all this stuff, and as you know, you don’t know where the word balloons are going to go, so you have to ink everything. And a lot of times, they’d cover up your work with word balloons, but you couldn’t take the chance of leaving room for word balloons.

JA: Since you mentioned likenesses, I noticed in your “Thor” story in Journey into Mystery #96, you actually drew President Kennedy and his press secretary, Pierre Salinger. I thought it was unusual, because most artists, like Jack Kirby, generally kept faces of Presidents in the shadows or hidden behind a lamp or something. That seems to have been a tradition in comics for the most part, which you broke.

SINNOTT: I like drawing real people and it’s easy for me to do. You could put President Roosevelt in shadow and show his cigarette holder, so people’d know who he was. But I feel like I do good likenesses, and actually showing the people adds to the reality of the situation. However, I believe in silhouettes. They are dramatic and lend themselves to certain scenes, as you very well know. Caniff was the best at that.

JA: Oh boy, don’t I know it! I’d spend hours inking or doing finishes on background machinery, and it’d drive me crazy to see all those hours of work covered up by word balloons. SINNOTT: Exactly! I’d do intricate machinery and nobody’d see it. Some people peter out when they got twenty pages or so, but I felt I was getting stronger because I was more into the character. I did the splash last, so that my strongest work was seen first. And I never start inking at the top of the page. I always start from the bottom up. I read in one of TwoMorrows’ magazines where Dick Giordano said he started at panel one and then went to panel two, and so forth. I didn’t do that. Many years ago, I discovered that by inking from the bottom up, you didn’t get the moisture from your hand or arm on the page and smear the pencils. Of course, back in those days, we didn’t have air-conditioning, and it’d get hot in the room. It was like slave labor back then, Jim. There were times that it was so hot, and my studio was upstairs, that I used to take my drawing board outside, under the shade of a big maple tree and ink there. JA: It’s funny, but I ink the same way, from the bottom up, though I usually work on two pages at a time. While one is drying, I’m working on another.

“Real People” SINNOTT: So do I. I didn’t so much in the old days, but I did in more recent times. For instance, when I do Stan’s Sunday Spider-Man page, I’ll work on two Sundays at a time. I do more pen work these days, because the brushes are so bad now and the figures are so small. As you know, pen doesn’t dry as fast, so I’ll switch off. And I spin the pages around when I’m inking in order to make the lines the way I want. I always ink away from myself rather than to myself with the brush and the pen. Fortunately, I could draw awfully well and it came easily with

Thor was one of Joe’s favorite heroes to ink—or to pencil and ink! We couldn’t resist re-presenting this great cover for the Feb. 1975 issue of the Comic Reader newszine. [Art ©2003 Joe Sinnott; Thor TM & ©2003 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Joe Sinnott

Looking back on some of those stories makes me wish I’d have taken more time on them. But in those days, you had to knock the stuff out in order to make a living. I’d pencil a page in the morning and ink it in the afternoon. After supper, I’d ghost a couple of Archie pages for Jon D’Agostino; I did that for a number of years. I was also doing covers for a crossword puzzle magazine publisher. I only had so much time to spend on the Marvel stuff, because I couldn’t give up my other assignments. Those people were depending on me, too. I used to juggle a lot of assignments. JA: Jon D’Agostino still works for Archie Publications as an inker. What did you do for him? SINNOTT: I inked... everything but the faces, because Jon wanted it to look like his work. The pages weren’t easy, because there were always parties going on in the stories, balloons and confetti, and all those characters. It was time-consuming. Jon was a very good friend of mine. He lettered all the stories I did for Treasure Chest. He was a great letterer, but then he got into inking.

“He’s an Ugly Bunch of Rocks” JA: Do you know why you were taken off of “Thor” and why Kirby started drawing the feature again? SINNOTT: I can’t imagine why. It probably was because I was so busy doing Treasure Chest, and they were my main account at the time. I loved doing likenesses, and they gave me 64-page books to do. It was probably the hardest thing I ever worked on. In those days, I was such a stickler for detail and I put a lot into that work. I got the most satisfaction ever out of doing Treasure Chest, and they paid very well. JA: I really think you understand the visual look of The Thing better than just about anyone who ever worked on him, Kirby notwithstanding. SINNOTT: Well, I’ve drawn and inked him so many times. JA: I always thought Jack Kirby identified with that character—and sometimes, I think you do, too. SINNOTT: Really? Well, I loved that character. You know, as successful as he was, I think Stan could have pushed him even more. He was great, especially in the days of Wyatt Wingfoot, Galactus, The Silver Surfer, and when Johnny Storm went to college. I think Stan and Jack reached their peak at that time. JA: I do, too, and in fact, I think most fans do. But the Thing is your favorite character, isn’t he? SINNOTT: Yep, and Thor is a close second. JA: What is it about The Thing that you like the most? SINNOTT: I think it’s because he has faults. He’s not a super-hero that nothing happens to. There are things he can’t do, and he’s frustrated much of the time because he is The Thing. He’s an ugly bunch of rocks, and sometimes he was ill-tempered because of it. JA: I always thought he was the most believable character of the Marvel super-heroes, personality-wise. SINNOTT: Without question. I remember one time when Terry Austin asked me for a drawing of The Thing. I did him a drawing of The Thing on the last page of his sketchbook. I had The Thing sitting next to a rock and he’s saying, “I hide way back here outta sight because I’m such a frightful sight.” [mutual laughter] But that typified The Thing. He was frustrated, he didn’t want to be up front and didn’t want anyone to recognize him.

JA: Was Fantastic Four your all-time favorite feature to work on? SINNOTT: I’d have to say, yes, although Thor was great fun, too. The supporting characters and villains, like Doctor Doom, The Mole Man, Silver Surfer... they all started out in the Fantastic Four comic book. I think that’s one reason the book was so successful, because of the supporting characters. Thor had a few, too, but the F.F. had the best ones. JA: I think that’s where Stan and Jack were the most creative, too. SINNOTT: Oh, without question! I was so shocked when Jack left Marvel, even though he had a lot of reasons for it. But you’d think he wouldn’t want to leave, although I know he wanted to create his own characters. Jack’s leaving the F.F. was tough, you know. JA: It had to be tough for you. SINNOTT: Oh, it was, because I missed Jack. I missed inking his work. John Romita took over for a few issues, and then John Buscema took over. There was one weird issue, #108, where Kirby had done some of the work, and then Buscema did the rest of it. JA: The way I understand it is that Jack had penciled that story completely on his own, and maybe co-plotted it, too. Marvel decided to shelve that story, and when they got around to publishing it, they changed the story, which meant John Buscema had to do new pages. I don’t know whether Marvel didn’t like what Jack had done, but they waited until Kirby’s work started appearing at DC Comics before publishing it. Most of the original story was printed in the ninth issue of The Jack Kirby Collector. It was typical Kirby work of that time period. SINNOTT: I’m sure! Of course, Buscema’s Thing was a fairly big departure from Jack’s, but then again, nobody could draw The Thing like Jack could. Jack gave The Thing a certain attitude, not just in facial expressions, but in body movement, too. You felt that was The Thing.

“You Do The Best You Can...” Once in a while, I’d mention it to Stan or Roy or Tom DeFalco. But believe it or not, it wasn’t until Tom was editor-in-chief at Marvel that I started getting credit for that job. When I retired in 1991 or ’92, Marvel threw a party for me. I went to the offices and Tom said, “Joe, here’s one of new Marvel hardcovers.” I looked through it and saw that Dick Ayers was credited for inking the Journey into Mystery #83 cover. I said, “Tom, I inked that cover and entire first story. I even inked the cover to issue #84.” Tom was shocked and said, “Joe, I didn’t know that. We’d have certainly given you credit in the book had we known.” He went on to say that they were currently producing a Marvel Masterwork hardcover of the early “Thor” stories and promised I’d get credited in there. And Tom kept his word.

JA: There was a lot of Jack Kirby in the Thing.

Same thing happened with original art. I remember getting the art to the Fantastic Four issue that Frank Giacoia inked. I could have kept it... you know, they were Kirby pages and had value... but I mailed it back and told Marvel that I didn’t ink this story. There were times my work ended up in other hands and I never saw those pages. It’s very upsetting.

SINNOTT: There certainly was. Jack had to identify with that character. The Thing stomped around just like Jack would do. And of course, they both smoked cigars.

JA: It’s happened to me, too. I’ve inked people who got my share of the work and refused to give me any of the pages when I asked. It’s insulting and demeaning, because they think I didn’t contribute

Inkers three! [L. to r.:] Frank Giacoia, Joe Sinnott, and Mike Esposito at Phil Seuling’s 1969 comicon.

JA: I was thought there was a little bit of Kirby in Nick Fury, too. SINNOTT: I agree. JA: I assume you liked the Fantastic Four, not just because of the supporting cast, but there was a real sense of family within that group. SINNOTT: Yeah. That was very important. I never had any input into the stories, but there were times I felt Stan... well, I liked Wyatt Wingfoot, and I never thought he was exploited enough. I liked that whole chapter out in the West. It was a departure from the series, which usually took place in the city. I liked Johnny going to college. That was a great idea, but I felt there wasn’t enough of that. Stan and Jack went on to other things.

“I Haven’t Always Stood Up for Myself” JA: As Marvel and you begin to rise in prominence... and I think it only fair to say that, since your importance grows with the company’s... did you notice any changes in Stan Lee or did he remain the “same old Stan”? SINNOTT: I think in the ’60s and early ’70s, Stan was really into what was happening. Of course, he was always a very diligent worker and very conscientious and he loved Marvel. He really loved Marvel. I won’t go so far as to say he was Marvel, but in many instances, he was. Certainly you can’t leave Kirby out of the equation, and there were other guys who contributed an awful lot, and maybe they didn’t get the credit they deserved. It wasn’t spread around enough, as with inkers, for instance. I always felt inkers contribute a lot, and that they don’t always get the recognition they deserve. JA: I will certainly agree with that. For many years, the colorists didn’t get credit for their work. I don’t think that changed until the late 1960s, maybe early 1970s, and that was unfair. I know Stan Goldberg, who color-designed all of the early- to mid-1960s heroes and villains, wasn’t thrilled about it. If it wasn’t for the fact that you have a such a recognizable style, who’d know you inked the first “Thor” story? For years, people have given that credit (and maybe reprint checks, too?) to Dick Ayers. SINNOTT: You’re right. I never could understand why Dick Ayers was always given credit for it, because our styles are different. But all through the years, that’s happened. I wasn’t aware of it for many years.

Joe told interviewer Jim Amash that this is one of his favorite Fantastic Four pages ever. It’s from #95 (Feb. 1970), not long before penciler Jack Kirby left for hopefully greener pastures at DC. Repro’d from a photocopy of the original art, courtesy of Joe. [©2003 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Joe Sinnott because I was “only” the inker, never minding the fact that I did finishes and not just inks. SINNOTT: I will say that Jack Kirby was very accommodating in that regard... he really was. There were others who weren’t, and some of them were personal friends of mine. I worked with one guy who really liked my inks and publicly admits his work wouldn’t have been the same without me inking it, but he got every page we ever did together and I didn’t get any of them. JA: Did you ever ask for some of those pages? SINNOTT: No, I didn’t. I didn’t even know about it for a long time. He must have had some special arrangement with Marvel. The agreement at Marvel has always been that the inker gets a share, usually one third, of the originals back. It’s always been a sore spot with me that I don’t have any of those pages. JA: I understand. But Joe, you’ve probably been too nice about it.

21 Spaceknights, Hulks, and we were a good combination. JA: I think Sal’s pencils played to your strengths. SINNOTT: That’s a very good explanation. I agree.

“I Got a Finisher’s Rate” JA: Later on, when you inked John Buscema on Thor, his pencils loosened up, didn’t they? SINNOTT: Oh, you’d better believe it! As the years went on, John got looser and looser, until there was very little there but layouts. But even then, the figure work was there; the action was there. It wasn’t like the anatomy wasn’t there, as was the case with a few pencilers. But it was still fun to ink John’s work. I knew how to draw and could carry on his intentions into a finished piece of art. JA: Were you getting a finisher’s rate?

SINNOTT: Yes. The last twenty years SINNOTT: Well, I’ve always believed at Marvel, no matter who I worked in treating people the same way I’d like Joe Sinnott, re-capturing the magic of the Buscema/Sinnott with or how complete their pencils to be treated. I haven’t always stood up Silver Surfer. [©2003 Marvel Characters, Inc.] were, I got a finisher’s rate. John Byrne for myself, but I’ve gotten better about used to give very finished pencils and that in recent years. It’s important to tell people how you feel. did beautiful work, and I still got a finisher’s rate. He didn’t always put the blacks in, but I didn’t have to fix his figure work or perspective. John One of the things I admired most about John Buscema is that if you was an excellent penciler to ink. We even did a couple of stories at the asked him a question, he’d give you a straight answer, even if it hurt you. older, bigger size, because John just wanted to see what it was like to John was so honest that it got him into trouble sometimes, but he was work in that format, and the pages came out very nicely. I was able to go very forthright, and I admire that in people. He’d never try to hurt in with a brush on the big panels and it was a joy to do it. people, but he wasn’t going to lie, either. JA: When you first started inking John’s pencils, they were real tight finishes, weren’t they?

JA: You must have been disappointed when you were taken off the Fantastic Four book.

SINNOTT: Oh, yeah. I think the first thing I inked of his was the first three issues of The Silver Surfer. John used to draw in blue pencil, though he did his layouts in graphite. I found that I had to use more pen work in inking him, because the brush would go over that blue pencil like it was a grease pencil. The ink would bead up on those blue pencils, so I had to use the pen a lot and dig into the paper. The worst part came when I erased the graphite (naturally, you don’t have to erase the blue lines because they won’t reproduce anyway), because when I did that, it lifted up a lot of my ink. I’d have to go back over the pages after erasing to make the pages look good. But I really enjoyed inking those books. John’s brother Sal took over after me. I don’t know if John asked for Sal or not, but they were a good combination. Sal’s a real professional and one of my favorites. We did a lot of Rom:

SINNOTT: I was. When John came back for his second run on the book, he wanted to ink it himself. I understood that, and he did a great job, of course. JA: You lasted longer on that book than anyone else. SINNOTT: I did, but not continuously. I was on that book for long stretches, like when I inked Keith Pollard. Keith did nice layouts, and at first, his pencils were very tight. But then, he got so loose that he became one of the loosest pencilers I ever worked with. The work was so loose that there was hardly anything there. [laughs] The loosest penciler I ever saw was Steve Ditko. It was the only story I ever turned back. It was a Chuck Norris story and I was asked to ink it. They mailed it up, I Three Timely/Marvel Titans, for sure! [L. to r.:] Jazzy Johnny Romita, Joltin’ Joe Sinnott, and Smilin’ Stan Lee. Between them, these three have logged up ’way over 150 years of comic book experience, and they’re all still going strong.

“You Do The Best You Can...”

took one look at it, and mailed it back. This was towards the end of my career, and while I could certainly draw from nothing, I didn’t feel that I should be doing someone else’s work. It was little more than stick figures. I used to admire Ditko’s work, but this wasn’t what I wanted to do. JA: I inked a couple of Ditko stories in the mid-1990s, and his pencils were very loose and open... no black areas, either. But I didn’t care, because I was young and it was Steve Ditko, after all, and I’d love to ink him again. In some places, he didn’t even draw the fingers on the hands—and he was famous for drawing hands. SINNOTT: Yes, and he wasn’t drawing figures. They looked like mannequins. He constructed the bodies with cylinders, like you’re taught in art school, and he left them at that. JA: I will say, in fairness to Ditko, that he always penciled loosely, according to some of the Xeroxes that I’ve seen.

“I Couldn’t Imagine the F.F. without Jack Kirby” JA: Getting back to Jack Kirby for a moment, how did you find out he left Marvel for DC? SINNOTT: Of course, Jack didn’t call me, but most likely, John Verpoorten told me. I did most of my communicating with John. He’d call me when he was sending work to me. I couldn’t believe Jack was leaving Marvel so much as he was leaving the F.F. He was such a part of that book, drawing and creating the characters. I knew he wanted to fully write his own stories and have the credit for his creations. I couldn’t imagine the F.F. without Jack Kirby. But I must say that anyone can be replaced. Babe Ruth was replaced, so why not Jack? I knew it’d be hard to replace him, but somebody would do it and the book would survive. In this case, it was John Romita, followed by John Buscema. Did Jack ever tell you whether or not he missed the Fantastic Four after he left? JA: Sort of. I know Jack loved those characters (especially The Thing), but I think he was more into what he was going to do next. I think Jack cared more about having complete control over his stories with his new creations and was ready to move on. I’m sure it was hard to leave those characters behind, but considering the relationship between Jack and Stan at that point, it may not have been the major consideration for him. Still, I figure it had to be somewhat painful for him.

SINNOTT: Yes, but that was because he usually inked his own work and knew what he was going to do in the ink stage. But I didn’t feel that, even though I was getting a finisher’s rate, I should do 75% of the work. JA: Getting back to the Fantastic Four, you must have felt you stepped into a time machine when you inked Rich Buckler. It looked like he was tracing a lot of Kirby’s work. SINNOTT: I think that was what Stan Lee wanted him to do. Stan wanted the “Kirby look” on the book, and Buckler copied Kirby to a “tee.” It was a strange feeling because I felt I was doing the same work over again. Some of my ink lines from previous Kirby/Sinnott figures were in Rich’s pencils. But Rich told a pretty good story, though I had to fix some of the work and do some extra drawing. But I didn’t mind that and could do it as I inked with my brush, just as well as if it had been tight pencils. JA: There’s one Fantastic Four story that I have to ask you about because it’s very strange....

SINNOTT: I think you’ll agree with me, Jim, that the pinnacle of Jack’s career was his run on the Fantastic Four. He seemed to feel more at home on that feature than the others, though his work on Thor, Captain America, and everything else was great work, too.

SINNOTT: I’m way ahead of you, Jim. You’re going to ask me about the issue that Ramona Fradon penciled [F.F. #133]. JA: [laughs] You’re right! SINNOTT: That book always stood out. Ramona’s a very good friend of mine and she’s a wonderful person. I couldn’t have been more shocked when I got that story. It was such a departure from anything I had ever done on the F.F. Her work was quite cartoony, and I really didn’t know if I should ink it the way I inked my own pencils or do a Kirby style or what. I fairly inked it the way she had penciled it. With all due respect to Ramona, whom I respect very much, it wasn’t one of my favorite F.F.s.

JA: I agree on both points, though there are a couple of New Gods stories that I dearly love. Now, the last Kirby Fantastic Four cover was issue #101, which you signed Jack and Joe, which you had never done before. Did you know Jack was leaving? I wondered if that was

your way of saying “goodbye.” SINNOTT: I don’t know why I signed it that way or if I knew Jack was leaving then. I don’t know if I inked any of the Romita issues, because I know John Verpoorten had inked some, if not all of them. I did ink Romita on Captain America. JA: What was it like to ink John Romita? SINNOTT: Very simple. He drew in blue pencil, too. His work reminded me of Sal Buscema, very well-drawn and simple. He didn’t spot any blacks, at least not in the stories I inked, as I recall. It was very easy to work with. I never asked to ink anyone in particular, but I wish I’d have done more work with John Romita. It never occurred to me to ask. I felt like I should ink whatever was sent to me, because I was a good company man.

Joe Sinnott JA: By this time, you must have been aware of how important you were to Marvel. SINNOTT: I was, because Stan kept telling me. JA: As far as inking’s concerned, you are my #1 influence. Some people say Jack Kirby was the “Marvel Style”; others say John Romita or John Buscema was. But I don’t believe you can be excluded from that list, because you inked so many covers and God knows how many stories that you either inked or did finishes on. You inked some great pencilers and lousy ones, too. Your work seemed to be everywhere at times, and I think your work is as much a part of the “Marvel Style” as anybody’s. SINNOTT: Thank you. In that respect, I think Stan Lee always gave me credit. It’s true I worked with great pencilers, but I was called upon to work over bad ones and was expected to fix their work, too. But I’ve always said that no matter how bad someone was, you have to give him credit, because it’s not easy to get a job in comics. There’s a lot of competition out there! JA: Boy, do I know! It’s probably fiercer now than ever before.

23 over Kirby, I wasn’t influenced by any other inkers. I had always done the complete art job on my assignments. I used to love the early Flash Gordon by Alex Raymond and loved his technique. Of course, he was influenced by Matt Clark. Everyone’s influenced by someone else. Milton Caniff was influenced by Roy Crane and Noel Sickles. But I never looked at anybody else’s inking, although I was influenced by George Tuska’s allaround work when I was a kid. He was doing Crime Does Not Pay, and George is still going strong and is a great guy. I didn’t know I was influenced by his ink line, because I was busy admiring the whole package. Burne Hogarth was a beautiful brush artist, too, but I was never influenced by anyone’s ink line. I just did it the way it looked best. The inkers that have followed me in the business have had greater opportunities to learn inking styles. Part of that credit goes to Stan Lee, because he started giving inker’s credit for their work, which made it easier for fans to follow our work. And if a young person liked a certain style, he could follow that inker from book to book and learn my style, or Frank Giacoia’s style, or anyone else’s work he liked.

Joe inked several Invaders covers in the mid- to late ’70s, but this one for #31 SINNOTT: It may well be. And (Aug. ’78) he penciled, as well! Repro’d from a photocopy of the original art, even when the pencilers weren’t JA: Very true. Since you knew courtesy of Joe. [©2003 Marvel Characters, Inc.] that great, I did the best job I could. Sam Grainger, I think this might I did some filler issues on titles, and be the best time to ask about him. I wasn’t as happy then, but I always did my job.

There was one guy I inked who was always experimenting, and that was Bill Sienkiewicz. We did a couple of F.F.s together and they were pretty good. I think he may have worked with a blue pencil, too, because I remember having to go back and work on my pages after I erased them. I like to work on pages where the penciler used a soft pencil, with no blacks filled in. It’s so much easier to erase the pages and saves on touch up time.

“Marvel Treated Me Very Well” JA: I can’t go on with this interview without saying that without your influence, I don’t know what my ink work would look like. I can do different styles, but somewhere, somehow, your style always shows up in my stuff. SINNOTT: I appreciate that very much. JA: And there were many others who were influenced by you. I see your style in my late friend Sam Grainger’s work, among many others’. Sam helped teach me, too. SINNOTT: Some of you guys were very fortunate to come along when you did. In other words, I remember that, when I first started inking

SINNOTT: I used to admire Sam’s inking. It did remind me a little of my work, and as you implied, you always like someone’s work when it reminds you of your own. [laughs] I met Sam at a comic convention in Charleston, South Carolina, and we had a great time together. We spent a couple of days together. The thing that impressed me about Sam was that he was a “down home” type of person. He was a very humble guy. JA: He sure was. Sam was a very important guy to me, and very giving of his time. He really loved your work and used to say, “Joe Sinnott’s the tops.” SINNOTT: I was really saddened when I’d heard he passed on. I think the last time I saw him was the late 1980s. JA: Sam died in 1991 from complications from diabetes. He was a very kind human being. By the way, how did you feel when you learned that Stan wanted other inkers to emulate your style? SINNOTT: That was a big compliment. I certainly wouldn’t resent anyone copying my style. I did have a few protégés, you might say, who wanted to see my work and spent a lot of time with me. They liked the way I inked rocks, and other textures. I always told them that backgrounds are so important. Don’t overdo them, but make them part of the picture, and ink them well.

“You Do The Best You Can...”

JA: People like me also followed your lead. You know, to me, as a fan in the ’60s and ’70s.... Joe Sinnott was Marvel and vice versa. As great as Kirby and John Buscema were, I saw many of those characters, especially the Fantastic Four, through your work. I’d see you in so many different comics! Many times, I’d see: breakdowns by “so and so” and finishes by Joe Sinnott. By the time you were finished, it looked like your work, which was just fine by me.

subject of Roy...

SINNOTT: [laughs] I didn’t mind that at all, because I got great satisfaction out of finishing a page that had very little on it.

SINNOTT: At one point, Roy changed Johnny’s uniform from the standard F.F. blue to red, as the original Human Torch’s was. I didn’t care for that. Sue’s hair style changed, too. Little things like that bothered me, but I can understand why they’d try different things. A new writer wants to give his own input into things. There were subtle changes, like the collar got bigger and sometimes the belt would get bigger. I always believed in keeping the status quo.

JA: I did notice that, a lot of times, you were working over lesser talents or beginners. Marvel knew you’d fix their work. SINNOTT: That did happen a lot of times. But I never complained about that, because I was being a good company man and Marvel treated me very well. JA: I must admit I bought some of those comics just because you worked on them. I might not have otherwise, and I’m sure Marvel knew that there were a lot of readers like me who did that. I also noticed that you managed to pencil and ink a few covers during that time. I believe you did a couple of those for Roy when he was editing and writing The Invaders, as well as inking other covers. SINNOTT: I remember those. One of them had the Frankenstein Monster in a Nazi uniform. In fact, I have the original art to that cover. In those days, we threw everything in the covers. I used to like the old DC Comics covers of the 1940s. What could be better than the cover of Batman #15? Remember that cover? Batman and Robin with the machine gun. It was so simple and yet told the story so well. I loved those posterish types of covers. Batman #1 had a great cover, too.

SINNOTT: Let me say first, Jim, that you can take John Steinbeck and find things to complain about. You can nitpick anyone’s work if you want. JA: When Roy became editor-in-chief, did you notice any changes in the way things worked?

JA: But except for Johnny’s costume, I’d think the other changes were the result of the penciler, not the writer. SINNOTT: Well, it could be, but then again, Roy would have to mention those things to the penciler. JA: Well, I didn’t care for the red costume, because one of the points of the group wearing the same uniform was to emphasize that they were a family and not a group like The Avengers. SINNOTT: Exactly! But I must say that I liked it when The Thing wore a tank top. I didn’t like it all the time, but occasionally it was nice. Of course, I loved him when he wore his trenchcoat and that porkpie hat. It added to his character.

I always felt Marvel put too much on their covers. Too many blurbs, too many word balloons, stuff like that. But that’s an artist speaking. They’re covering up too much of our art, you know.

SINNOTT: Not really, but then again, there was a time, later on, when Roy would call me and we’d discuss things. Stan never discussed stories with me, but Roy did. JA: Jim Steranko told me you have a Christmas story for me.

“You Can Nitpick Anyone’s Work...”

SINNOTT: Oh, yeah... I sure do. Christmas was the only day of the year that I wouldn’t work. But one year, I had to because Jim was so late on a Captain America story. Being a conscientious company man, I worked all day Christmas day, and that’s difficult when you have four kids. It was a tough story, because Jim used to throw everything into his pages except the kitchen sink. If it wasn’t for Jim’s tardiness, because he put so much into his work, Jim could have accomplished even more than he did. Meeting deadlines was his main problem.

JA: Right. I just remembered another Fantastic Four question that was on my mind. How did you feel when Roy Thomas took over for Stan Lee? SINNOTT: The only thing that, at the time, I thought was different, was that Roy wrote more captions and dialogue than Stan. That left less room for the artists, but it might have just been my imagination at the time. Sometimes I felt Roy had a little bit too much dialogue in the stories, but he was a great writer and I admired his stuff for years. We’ve been friends for many years and I know this is his magazine, but I’ve got to tell Roy this wasn’t War and Peace! [mutual laughter] JA: Thanks for getting me fired, Joe! [more laughter] While we are on the

JA: Did you have much personal contact with Roy at that time?

JA: Jim told me that he felt that your inks really elevated his work.

Buscema and Sinnott also teamed up on one of the early DC/Marvel crossovers in the late ’70s—back when a cross-over was a crossover! Here, repro’d from photostats of the original art, are a pair of art spots they did at the time. [Superman & Wonder Woman TM & ©2003 DC Comics; Hulk and Spider-Man TM & ©2003 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

SINNOTT: Jim’s one of two guys who’s ever publicly said that I helped improve his work. I can’t thank him enough for that. Credit like that is very special. Another who always gave me

Joe Sinnott that kind of credit was George Pérez. We were good buddies, though I haven’t seen him in some time. When George was young, he put everything in but the kitchen sink. George never believed in white space. [laughs] JA: What do you remember about Steranko’s pencils? SINNOTT: They were extremely tight. His forté was storytelling. I felt his figure work at that time... now remember, he was quite young... was very elongated. His characters were too thin and too stretched out. I felt John Byrne had that problem, too. But sometimes, as you know, the artist doesn’t see these things himself. Someone else has to see them and point them out. I could pick this out in Jim’s work and sometimes I had to pick up things in Jim’s work. His Captain America had to be picked up... but, as I said, his storytelling was so good that it made for a good book. His work was completely different than anything else I’d ever worked on. I think there was one “Nick Fury” story where there were so many panels on the page that it was incredible. Jim liked to do psychedelic art and lots of color overlays, though I never worried about that because it wasn’t my problem.

25 great job with the Surfer. There was nothing John Buscema could do that wouldn’t impress me. He was fun to ink. As you know, you feel good when you get satisfaction out of your work, and you got that anytime you finished a story by John Buscema. I remember this “Warriors Three” story we did for Marvel Spotlight. It wasn’t an important book, but it came out looking real nice. John did a nice job on it, and I had a nice brush to use, and there were great character faces to do. That’s a story I always think about when I think of stories I got great satisfaction from. Everyone says what a great issue Fantastic Four #51 was (and it was a great story), but sometimes it’s the little stories that no one ever thinks about that I get great satisfaction from.

“It’s Unbelievable Just How Don Heck Was Treated” JA: We ought to talk about Don Heck a little.

SINNOTT: Oh, yes... I loved Don’s work, especially his stuff in the 1950s. He was such a conscientious artist; he A classic Kirby-Sinnott Surfer illo. [©2003 Marvel Characters, Inc.] did great Navy stories, science-fiction stories... his mystery stories were great, too. He was a great inker and a JA: Did they send color notes to you so you’d know what was going great storyteller. Stan appreciated Don, just like he appreciated Joe on? Maneely. But in the super-hero area of the 1960s, I don’t think Don really ever found his niche or was appreciated, even though he did some SINNOTT: There could have been some from Jim. He wanted everygreat stuff. thing to be perfect. There might have been an odd note here and there from someone, but not usually. JA: I thought he got a bum rap. Did you get to know him? JA: A few years later, you inked a couple of Fantastic Four covers of Jim’s. SINNOTT: Yes. Jim did a series of Marvel covers for a short while, which I’m sure he enjoyed doing. One cover had The Sandman on it, and the other had Quicksilver, who was a character I never liked very much. He was lame. On the other hand, I really liked The Sandman. I could do a lot with him. There was all that great sand texture, and he could bend into so many shapes and explode all over the place! I loved that striped shirt. He was marvelous to do. Another great character was The Mole Man. I loved that flowing cape and baggy costume... the staff and the craggy face. I also loved inking the underground caverns, with all the stalactites and stalagmites. JA: As a counterpoint, since Galactus was such a visually detailed character, did you find him tough to do? SINNOTT: Not really, but he did take time and I didn’t really enjoy doing him. I also didn’t care to do Iron Man. There were others I didn’t care for, either. I really liked The Silver Surfer, but he wasn’t that easy to do. There was a time when we weren’t sure if he was metallic or styrofoam. John Buscema used to tell me that! I don’t remember which of the two ways Stan had told John to draw him, but whatever way it was, John was doing it the opposite. I always thought he was metallic, but I could see him being non-metallic. But then again, Buscema did a

SINNOTT: Not really. We’d always get together at conventions and have a good time. We were roughly the same age and worked all through the 1950s at Marvel. We had the same interests. He was a great guy to talk to, but I always had the feeling that Don was depressed and had a little chip on his shoulder because of how he was treated. I could be wrong about that, but that’s the impression I had. He was a nice guy and told it like it was. He wasn’t afraid to give you a straight answer to a question. JA: I know he got the nickname “Don Hack,” but people forget that it was Heck that a lot of editors went to when they needed an entire book over the weekend. The inkers would then have to rush through the job, too. Then those same editors would complain about the work. Well, just how great are 22 pages going to be when you only have a couple of days to draw them? SINNOTT: Exactly! It was unbelievable just how he was treated. The people who complained about Don had no idea about just what goes into drawing pages. I remember back around 1953, Stan called me and said he was in dire straits. We were doing a “Rick Davis” story; he was an F.B.I. agent. It was three 6-page stories in the issue, and Stan had to have them by the end of the week. Stan mailed the scripts on Friday and I got them on Saturday. I started working and by next Friday, I had penciled and inked all eighteen pages. It was an extremely tough job under those circumstances.

“You Do The Best You Can...” studio. I noticed there was a difference between the foreground figures and the background figures, so I thought he had help on those stories. The foregrounds were unbelievable... Neal was a tremendous artist and I got a lot of satisfaction inking him.

I probably shouldn’t say this, but you’d do a job with that kind of deadline and then it’d sit on the editor’s desk for a few days. I’d rush like crazy to get it done, and a week later, they’d forget that you bailed them out like that. They don’t know what’s involved in doing the work. Some people think you can rubberstamp the pages and it’ll turn into great art.

JA: His work was a little more photographic than what you were used to inking, and you looked great on his work.

One of those “Rick Davis” stories had a lot of airplanes, and you just can’t make them up. You have to do reference for them in order to make the planes look like real ones. And that takes time to do. You can do rough pencils and fill in the details with the inks, but you still have to lay everything out and that takes time.

SINNOTT: You know who else was photographic in his work? Gene Colan. I inked those Captain Americas with Gene, and Sol Brodsky called me and said, “You know, Joe, we can’t get over how wonderful Captain America looks. You did a great job on Colan.” I thought he was just pulling my leg and wanted a favor or something. [mutual laughter] Gene’s pencils were a lot finer than his inks. He had a beautiful line.

“I Hate to Leave Out Anybody...”

JA: It must have been tough, in a way, because Colan added a lot of half tones in his pencils that can’t be faithfully inked.

JA: You’ve inked Gil Kane. What did you think about doing that? SINNOTT: I never liked inking Gil Kane. He was an immensely popular artist, but it seemed like he was drawing from mannequins all the time. His pencil work never looked complete; he never filled in the blacks either. His style clashed with my style, and I felt uncomfortable working with him.

SINNOTT: True, but I always liked doing fine-line inking. I had a good, steady hand... I still do. I really liked inking Gene Colan. JA: George Pérez. Joe says the main art for this illo was laid out by Ron Frenz, for a place and project he’s forgotten, with a blank box above/behind Ben and Reed left to be filled with copy. In this version, he filled the empty space with a Kirbyesque drawing of his own. [©2003 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

I remember one time we were doing an F.F. [NOTE: It was actually an issue of Marvel Twoin-One, starring The Thing. —Roy.]. Now, Gil never liked seeing his work changed, but he drew the stones on The Thing very tiny, and it looked like a mosaic. It was a terrible-looking Thing, only because the stones were drawn too small. I inked a lot of Gil’s stuff, but it wasn’t my favorite thing to do. JA: Gil’s criticism of your inks was that you were too slick over him.

SINNOTT: [laughs] Well, John Severin would be the first to say that, because John had a gritty look to his work, and I wouldn’t want to ink it because I’m too slick. I’ve always thought that most super-hero stories should be inked with a slick line. JA: For the most part, I agree. Now, let’s talk about Gene Colan. SINNOTT: Oh, Gene was a gem. He was so good to work with. I can’t say enough about his pencils—very fine lines, shadows—he really knew how to move his blacks around the page and make them balanced. We did some great Captain America stories. You had to be very careful when inking Gene. His pencils were very fine and wispy. Kirby came right at you with bold lines, and Colan was more refined and subtle. JA: You inked Neal Adams on a couple of Thor stories when Kirby left the book. Tell me about that. SINNOTT: Neal’s pencils were beautiful, and the pages came from his

SINNOTT: Like I said, George filled up every spot on the page and took a lot of time with his pages. I remember one scene where the F.F. was in the park and a girl... I don’t remember if it was Sue or Alicia... was talking with someone. George drew a downshot of the two of them, and there were different people sitting on a park bench. There was a lady walking with a baby carriage and pigeons on the ground. Of course, you’d see that in Central Park, but he repeated that scene, instead of using a close-up shot of the two girls talking. That’s how George was in the early days, but I got great satisfaction working with him. JA: You ever ink Herb Trimpe?

SINNOTT: I think I did, but I can’t remember on what. Herb lives near me and he was always trying to get me up in his airplane. Herb loved to fly and I hate to fly. I don’t go any place where I can’t run. [laughter] JA: Same here. You know Stan Goldberg, too. SINNOTT: Oh yeah, I met Stan back in the Timely days. There’s not a nicer guy than Stan Goldberg, and everything he does is terrific. Of course, Dan DeCarlo was great, too. My friend Jon D’Agostino and Al Hartley did great Archie stuff, too. Even John Severin did great humor work. I hate to leave out anybody, which is something that can happen when you’re being interviewed, you know. I remember that Al Hartley and Stan Lee did a nice newspaper strip called Mrs. Lyon’s Cubs. Quite a few years back, Al called me when he was doing religious comics. I don’t remember if he asked me to help him

Joe Sinnott out, but I was so busy anyway. I don’t recall if we ever got together or not in person, but I always admired his work. He was versatile; he could do war stories, adventure stories, as well as humor.

“Nice Guy(s)” JA: You mentioned Sol Brodsky earlier. Tell me about him. SINNOTT: Sol and I were very close friends. Sol was the production manager before John Verpoorten and gave out all the assignments and made sure the books were in on time. John Romita’s wife, Virginia, had that responsibility much later.

Anyway, getting back to Sol, he was on a shoestring with that magazine and we tried to help him out. Then again, he paid us well and he helped us out. JA: Let’s talk about George Roussos, who was an unappreciated man. SINNOTT: Oh, very much so. I remember seeing his work when I was a little kid. He did good mystery stories and was good at spotting blacks. I always admired how he did that. He was a very good artist and I was surprised that he quit drawing and colored. George was a good guy, from the old school, which I think is a plus in today’s society. He was honest and dependable, and lived a good, long life into his eighties, but you still hate to see a man like that go.

Sol was Stan’s righthand man, and there was the time when Timely went belly-up, that Sol did some projects on his own. When I was doing that encyclopedia work for Jack Kamen, someone told me that Sol had a little office up near Times Square. He was putting out Zany, which was a Mad magazine type of book. I had been doing doing some Craft-tint type of drawings for ad agencies and the like, and I suggested to Angelo Torres that we go up and see if we could get some work from Sol.

Jack Abel worked at Marvel and he was a good friend of mine. I remember when Jack did backgrounds for Dick Giordano. Jack was a very versatile guy and he made a good team with Bob Forgione, back when there were hardly any art teams around. Jack was a big, big baseball fan, and any time I talked to him, we talked baseball.

Sol’s office was a hole in the wall; I don’t even think he had a secretary. Of course, I knew Sol from Timely and he gave me some Zany stories to do. His book wasn’t the quality publication that Mad or Cracked was. It didn’t have a slick cover, but the art inside was good. We were all competent artists, so we could do a good job. But right after that, Stan called Sol and he went back to Marvel.

SINNOTT: Poor John. I really loved John, who was a big, hulking guy, which probably contributed to his passing away at an early age. He was a really good inker and a great production manager. After Sol left, John was Stan’s righthand man. He always did a great job when he got the

JA: I’d like to talk a little more about John Verpoorten.

Sol died too young. I remember going down to one of the dinners Marvel gave for me, and Jim Shooter... [laughs] Jim and I always got along very well. I liked Jim, but he had his detractors, you know. Jim said I had to come to the offices, because nobody had seen me in years. I kept putting him off, but told him, “Jim, I like the fall in New York City. I’ll come down in October.” Jim said he’d hold me to that promise. Naturally, I forgot all about it. I always tried to avoid New York City like the plague. So October came along and I’ll never forget it. It was Halloween and Jim called up and said, “You know what today is? It’s October 31, and you told me you’d be down in October.” I said, “Jim, I totally forgot about it. I’ll tell you what: you tell me when you want me to come down and I’ll do it.” He said, “I want you to come down next Wednesday.” I told him I’d be there, and after I hung up the phone, I said to my wife, “Why did I ever tell him that?” I didn’t want to go down. My wife and I took the train down. I told her to go to Macy’s and that I’d meet her in about an hour, and we’d take the train back. So Betty went over to Macy’s and I went to the office. I walked in and they had streamers and balloons and a big spread with all kinds of cold cuts. They wanted to celebrate my visit and had this big party for me. There was no way I could get hold of my wife and I couldn’t leave. I didn’t get back with her until about 4:00, and she was dying to know what happened to me. In any case, Jim put that party on, and we had a great time. Jim said to me, “Joe, I want you to come down here every month so we can enjoy your company.” It was years before I made it down again. [laughter] The next time I came down was when I retired and they had a party for me. The editors and I went to dinner and had a big blast. George Roussos was there, Jack Abel, the Romitas, Tom DeFalco... the whole bunch.

“You Do The Best You Can...”

chance to ink. He also went to the Cartoonists and Illustrators School. A lot of people went there: Wally Wood, Marie Severin, and I think maybe Herb Trimpe, too. JA: Did you know Marie very well? SINNOTT: Very well. I haven’t talked to Marie in a few months, but we used to talk quite often. I did some cover re-creations and Marie colored them. Marie also did great caricatures and was/is a good all-around artist. She goes to comic conventions with Ramona Fradon and they have a great time together. Marie’s a jolly person with a great sense of humor; it’s biting, but it’s great. JA: What do you remember about Flo Steinberg? SINNOTT: She was a very nice person with the sweetest voice you can imagine. When Flo called up to tell me Stan was sending me a script, it was a pleasure to listen to her. She was full of enthusiasm and cheerfulness. I’m sure she had her bad days, but she was a cheerful person. Another nice guy I did a lot of work with was Don Perlin. A real hard worker; we did The Defenders together. Don’s pencils were simple, but everything was there and it was drawn well. It’s funny, I worked on The Defenders for a very long time because Stan wanted me to work on that book. But I really didn’t care much for the characters in the group. I was never comfortable with any of them, but I always tried to do the best I could. JA: Joe, I never saw a bad job from you. SINNOTT: But you know what I mean. You do them the best that you can, but you’d rather be doing something else.

“It Wasn’t Like I Was Only Inking” JA: I understand. But, you know, I think a character like Thor can be a tough character to ink in that a third of his head is covered with that helmet. It’s very easy to make him look younger than he really is. I’ve seen some artists do that. SINNOTT: That’s true. You know what makes him look very young? When you make a lock of hair stick out from under that helmet and go across his forehead. I draw Thor for people occasionally and often draw that hair. [NOTE: See p. 1.] Of course, if you really want to make him look younger, you turn up that nose of his. You don’t want to make him look like he’s 13 years old, but that short bit of hair on the face and a short nose can make him look younger than he’s supposed to be. I never thought that Thor was hard to draw, and I loved doing that character. He had a long, flowing cape and I love to draw and/or ink capes. Doctor Doom’s mask could be a chore because of all the rivets on his mask, but his cape and tunic were great to do. One of the guys I really got a lot of joy working with was John Tartaglione. We only did two books together, Pope John Paul the Second and Mother Teresa, for Marvel. They were two of the best books I ever did. John did a terrific job on the pencils, and it was a very involved job. There was a lot of reference involved. John’s a great character and does great oil portraits on the side. He does outstanding likenesses. He’s a great guy to talk to. He didn’t get much attention by the fans, but he should have. He worked at Marvel for a long time. Nobody could handle the Pope John pencils like he could. Let’s mention that he’s a great golfer, too. I tried playing golf, but I never took it very seriously. I was into it more for the camaraderie. JA: You should have seen me try to golf. One disaster after another. Do you wish you done more super-hero penciling than you did? SINNOTT: At the time, it didn’t matter to me. It was a way of making money, and I was more concerned with making a living. It didn’t bother me that I only drew a few “Thor” stories or a couple of covers. But looking back, I would have liked to have done more covers and some stories. You must remember that I was still doing a lot of penciling for Treasure Chest, so it wasn’t like I was only inking. JA: Why did you retire? You certainly hadn’t lost any of your abilities.

Lest we forget. This pair of Sinnott illustrations done for a Saugerties, NY, newspaper, is very special to Joe. (Left:) His brother, Sgt. Jack Sinnott, was killed in action in 1944, as Joe relates in the interview. (Right:) The first U.S. soldier to be awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor during the Vietnam War was Captain Roger Donlon, also of Saugerties, and a close friend of the Sinnott family. [ c 2003 the respective copyright holder.]

SINNOTT: I was burnt out, exhausted, and tired. I was fairly well off, financially, so I didn’t have to work, although I wanted to continue drawing. I just felt it was

Joe Sinnott

time. I knew I would still do little projects that appealed to me; a pin-up here or a cover there, things like that. It was just time. I was 63. Of course, I didn’t know Stan was going to ask me to do the Spider-Man Sundays or things like that. I knew that, if I wanted work at any time, that I could get it. But basically, I was tired. I had worked all those years and turned out all those pages, and believe me, you can get burnt out. I was still doing the best I could even at the end, when my interest level had dropped. I felt I always did the same quality of work, no matter what year it is I look back on. But it was tougher to get up on a Monday morning and get started. I was still doing some key books, like Thor. One of the reasons I hated to stop was that I loved Thor so much and I loved working with Ron Frenz. I thought we were a good team. I hated giving up that book. JA: I used to wonder why they put you on books like NFL Super Pro, because it wasn’t a high-profile book and you were a highprofile artist. SINNOTT: Well, I know what you’re saying, but that book was fun to do, even though I knew it wasn’t going anyplace. Ron Frenz did some nice covers for that book. Once in awhile, John Romita would lay out those covers for Ron. Ron did great covers and is very underappreciated. He does great work and has had trouble getting work, which is hard to understand. There are a lot of guys like him, who should be working a lot more than they are. I hate to criticize anyone’s work, because doing comics is hard work and you have to be halfway decent. But there is some stuff... well, it’s not my cup of tea, and I wonder why Ron’s not working instead of this person. JA: You don’t miss the grind, do you? SINNOTT: No. I’m still drawing, doing recreations, commission drawings, things like that. I do them when I feel like it; otherwise I’d be working all the time. But I still do the Spider-Man Sundays, and if I’m not doing something for an advertising agency, I’d still be sketching. I sit at the drawing board and do sketches for kids, from which I get great satisfaction. JA: I think you’ve worked with Stan Lee longer than anyone else. You probably have the record. SINNOTT: I’m sure I do. 53 years now. JA: Is Stan any different now than he was when you started working for him? SINNOTT: I don’t think there’s any difference whatsoever. He always had a tremendous sense of humor. I’ve gotten some great letters from Stan, and he’s eighty. Of course, his memory isn’t as good as it used to be, but that’s nothing new. [laughs] He’s still a prodigious worker; he’s still working hard. It seems like only yesterday that I started working for Stan. He has that gift for making you feel that way. I think back to the Empire State Building days, and it seems like another world.

“Yo, Bing!” JA: Joe, we’ve covered your career pretty thoroughly, but I can’t get out of here without talking about a couple of things. Like your love for Bing Crosby. SINNOTT: Who? [mutual laughter] JA: Both Roy and I are Bing Crosby fans, though Roy likes Frank Sinatra better.

[Above left:] A reproduction of Bing Crosby’s autograph, obtained on a Hollywood street in April 1945, while Joe was in the Navy. [Above:] Joe, an inveterate Crosby fan for well over half a century, drew the evocative illustration at right of the one-time “Groaner” entertaining U.S. troops in wartime France, 1944. Joe’s brother Jack is the sergeant in front with the rifle. [Art ©2003 Joe Sinnott.]

SINNOTT: No kidding? Well, he really doesn’t know Bing Crosby. [laughs] I can argue that subject all day. I just made a tape for you with Bing Crosby and Al Jolson singing together. They were great together... the two greatest entertainers of the 20th century. Bing was a great singer, great actor, great comedian. He was a good ad-libber, but he also had some good writers when he did his radio shows [Kraft Musical Hall, followed by The Bing Crosby Show]. Now, Al Jolson had a really big ego. On one of Bing’s radio shows, Jolson tells Bing he’s going to get some humility. Bing says, “You are?” Jolson said he was, and said, “I’m going to take out a full-page ad in Variety to advertise my new humility.” Bing says, “You’re going to take out a big ad to advertise your humility?” Jolson said, “Yeah, but I’m going to have it printed in small type.” [mutual laughter] Bing worked with Frank Capra in two movies, and Capra said that Bing was just as good an actor as Spencer Tracy. He won an Academy Award (for Going My Way) and was nominated for two others. There was nothing he couldn’t do, and he made it all look easy. He also entertained tirelessly for our troops during World War II. In 1944, while entertaining overseas, he broadcast to the Germans in phonetic German, and they dubbed him “Der Bingle.” I’ve been following Bing’s career since 1939. He was #1 in records, #1 in the movies, and #1 on radio... all at the same time. What an accomplishment! That’s star power! For five straight years, he was the #1 boxoffice attraction: John Wayne didn’t do it, Clark Gable didn’t do it... no one else did except for Bing. He was in the top ten for twenty years. Bing had 40 number one hit songs; Elvis only had 19. He had 398 hits on the charts, and Sinatra only had 200. That should give Roy something to think about. JA: Awww... you know he’ll have a retort of some kind! [mutual laughter] We should mention that you’ve done a radio show about Bing for many years, too. And that you have one of the biggest collections of Bing’s music anywhere. Tell me the story of when you met Bing.

“You Do The Best You Can...”

SINNOTT: April, 1945. I was on leave while in the Navy, and a couple of sailor friends and I decided to go to Hollywood Boulevard and rent some bicycles so we could go see Bing Crosby and Bob Hope, who were giving a benefit golf match for the USO, about twelve miles away. We started walking down the street, and saw this Cadillac stop near us. All I saw was the back of this guy’s head, and I said to my friends, “That’s Bing Crosby!” There were two Marines in the front seat. They got out, and said, “Thanks, Bing.” He said, “Take care, fellas.” Bing got out of the Cadillac and we started walking behind him. He went into a tobacco store. I had a sheet of paper with me, in case we ran into some movie stars, and a little golf pencil. Five minutes later, Bing came out of the tobacco store and was filling up his pipe. He started walking towards us, looked at us, and walked on by. We were so scared, we didn’t know what to say. I said to myself, “I’d better say something.” Once he was three or four feet past us, I said, “Yo, Bing!” He turned around and probably knew what we wanted. I went up to Bing and asked for his autograph. He said, “Sure, but keep walking. Don’t stop.” I tore the piece of paper I had into sections so my friends could get his autograph, too. I talked to Bing all the way to the corner, and the only thing I can remember was that I asked him what movie was he currently making. Bing said, “ A little thing called The Bells of St. Mary’s.” He took my pencil and stuck it in his plaid coat jacket. I was too scared to ask for it back. There was a little old lady sitting on the corner with a basket of carnations. He walked over to her and called her by name, and she said, “Hi, Bing. How are you doing today?” He dropped a dollar in her basket, took a carnation out, and stuck it in the lapel of his jacket. He turned around, waved to us, and got into his car and took off.

He wrote this in a letter, but the only one I remember him saying at this moment was Mark Twain. If I had my choice, it’d be Bing Crosby, General Custer, and my brother Jack. I’ve always been a Custer buff. He wasn’t a nice guy, but I’ve always wondered what happened at the Little Big Horn. Nobody knows what happened that day, and it was one of the most important battles in American history. I can’t end this interview without talking about my brother Jack. Jack was my #1 hero. He was the real talent in our family, and I’ve always wondered what he would have accomplished had he not been killed during World War II. He was an infantry sergeant, just twenty years old, when after fighting up the Italian boot at Cassino, Anzio, and Rome, he was killed at Montelimar, France, on August 28, 1944. He fought side by side with Audie Murphy, America’s most decorated soldier. They served in the First Battalion, 15th Infantry Regiment, and the 3rd Infantry Division. I miss him to this day! The sergeant in the foreground of the Bing Crosby “Der Bingle” cover is my brother Jack. JA: What a brave man he was! I certainly understand why you feel the way you do about him. In closing, I wonder if you’re aware that your influence is still pervasive in today’s comics. Maybe some of the inkers don’t use the exact same kind of line that you always have (though many actually do), but the attitude you bring to inking pencils is a classic, timetested, traditional style that will always be in vogue. You set a standard that will hold up for as long as super-hero comics are published. SINNOTT: Well, [laughs] I really don’t know what to say to that, except that if it’s true, then it’s a great legacy for me and I’m very proud of it. It’s not often that an artist leaves an important mark on comics, and I never set out to do that, but if I have, then it validates my efforts. It’s a great feeling to be remembered and appreciated.

Looking back, what we should have done was say, “Bing, we’re going to the golf course. Would you give us a ride out?” He’d have given us a ride out, no question, and we’d have had a great talk. That was a great experience.

“It’s a Great Legacy for Me” JA: I’m very envious! Now, tell me about your sports cartoons. SINNOTT: That’s one of my loves... especially baseball, which is about 90% of the ones I do. I do one every year for the Baseball Hall of Fame in Cooperstown, New York. Also, the Salvation Army has a guest speaker every year to give an inspirational talk. They have a lawn party afterwards and I do cartoons and we make up prints for the guests. You have to be invited to be able to attend this party. The speaker will autograph the cartoons and pass them around to the guests. Guys like Bob Feller, Ralph Kiner, Tommy John, and others have done this. I’ve been involved with this for eleven years or more. I know what a big baseball and history buff you are, so I have a question for you. I always like to ask this question of people: if you could invite three people from history for dinner tomorrow night, who would they be? Excluding Biblical characters. JA: Well, you know I have to say Roberto Clemente, because he was my hero growing up and I always wore his number (21), even when I played semi-pro ball, which I did until 2000. Leonardo Da Vinci and Ben Franklin would be the other two. SINNOTT: I asked Stan Lee this question, and he chose three writers.

One final Sinnott super-hero scene—and a photo of Joe in the late 1990s with some of his art, including the illustration used as the cover of this issue of Alter Ego. Keep knockin’ em over the fences, Joltin’ Joe! [Art ©2003 Joe Sinnott; Spider-Man & Dr. Doom TM & ©2003 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt

Spot That Style

Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt

Spot That Style

ANSWERS: Herb: George Evans Drawing: Reed Crandall Comics: Wally Wood Hydra: Joe Sinnott Ocarina, Occultism: Paul Reinman Calorie, Calvin, Calypso: Bob Powell

Art Credits: Hey, so that’s what an ocarina looks like! I’ve been curious about that ever since I read about young Stan Lee driving everyone crazy playing one in the early days of Timely in the ’40s. That’s the Crypt for ya—fun and educational! Here’s hoping you comic connoisseurs enjoyed our little quiz! NEXT ISSUE: We take an imaginary journey back to 1963 to unearth a secret cache of “lost” Jack Kirby Hulk covers from the Marvel Age of Comics! See you then, effendi! Till next time...

Number 12, Summer 2003 • Hype and hullabaloo from the publisher determined to bring new life to comics fandom • Edited by Eric Nolen-Weathington

Gorgeous, George! Hot on the heels of our first top-selling ALAN DAVIS volume comes MODERN MASTERS VOLUME TWO: GEORGE PÉREZ by our own ERIC NOLENWEATHINGTON! This new series of trade paperbacks spotlights the best talent working in comics today, and ol’ George is a prime example, turning out some of his most gorgeous work ever! This squarebound book provides a compelling account of Pérez’ stellar career, including an all-encompassing interview! It also contains reams of rare and unseen artwork from George’s personal files, a deluxe sketchbook and gallery section, & more! This 128page Trade Paperback NOW SHIPS IN SEPTEMBER (Diamond forgot to list it in PREVIEWS for August!!), and is $17 POSTPAID in the US.

FREE WOOD! There’s still time to get your FREE COPY of the WALLACE WOOD CHECKLIST when you order either the Softcover or Hardcover edition of AGAINST THE GRAIN: MAD ARTIST WALLACE WOOD directly from TwoMorrows by August 1! ATG is the most comprehensive book ever produced on Wood, done with the full cooperation and participation of his estate! It features a biography by friend BHOB STEWART, plus essays from a veritable Who’s Who of industry pros who knew and worked with Woody! It also includes hundreds of pages of Wood’s finest art, much unpublished and direct from his own files, courtesy of executor BILL PEARSON and ROGER HILL! The deluxe hardcover edition includes an EXTRA 16PAGE COLOR SECTION spotlighting Wood’s science-fiction paintings, plus custom endleaves and dustjacket! Order either and get the heavily illustrated 68-page WOOD CHECKLIST (documenting his comics, fanzine, advertising, and unpublished work, and more—normally $7 postpaid in the US) FREE! The 336-PAGE SOFTCOVER is $44 POSTPAID in the US, or $64 POSTPAID for the HARDCOVER. BOTH SHIP IN SEPTEMBER!

Coming Soon!

Raw Kirby!

Alter Ego #27 (August) CBA #25 (Now, final issue) DRAW! #7 (August) Jack Kirby Collector #39 (August) Write Now! #5 (July)

CAPT. VICTORY: GRAPHITE EDITION presents Jack Kirby’s original 1976 Captain Victory graphic novel (before it was broken up for the Pacific Comics series), reproduced from Jack’s uninked pencils! NOT SOLD IN STORES! All proceeds from this 52-page book go to scanning and preserving the 4000+ page Kirby pencil xerox archives! $8 POSTPAID in the US. NOW SHIPPING! AVAILABLE BY MAIL ONLY!

Got LEGIONitis?!

If you have a bad case of hankering for more info on the history of the Legion of Super-HeroesTM, we’ve got the cure! THE LEGION COMPANION is a 224-page trade paperback by Legion nut Glen Cadigan, sure to make your flight ring shiny! It offers a complete look at the history of the 30th Century’s greatest heroes, through interviews with DAVE COCKRUM, MIKE GRELL, JIM STARLIN, JAMES SHERMAN, PAUL LEVITZ, KEITH GIFFEN, STEVE LIGHTLE, MARK WAID, JIM SHOOTER, JIM MOONEY, AL PLASTINO, and more, including rare and neverseen Legion art by the above, plus GEORGE PÉREZ, NEAL ADAMS, CURT SWAN, and others! It sports a new cover by DAVE COCKRUM and JOE RUBINSTEIN, unused Cockrum character designs and an UNUSED TIMBER WOLF STORY, introduction by JIM SHOOTER, and more! It’s only $29 POSTPAID in the US., and SHIPS IN SEPTEMBER!

Pull No Punches!

This month, we say “sayonara” to COMIC BOOK ARTIST, and “Whoa, Nellie!” to BACK ISSUE, the newest TwoMorrows mag! Work on BI is at a fevered pitch, getting ready for its debut in LATE OCTOBER (filling CBA's spot on our schedule)! The first issue of our new bi-monthly, edited by MICHAEL EURY (former editor and writer for DC and Dark Horse Comics, and author of our CAPTAIN ACTION book, plus our upcoming biography of DICK GIORDANO) focuses on “DC vs. Marvel”, and we’ll be covering their battles on the comics page and behind-the-scenes from the 1970s, ’80s, and on up to today! When you see what we’ve got planned for this slugfest, you’ll agree it’s the knockout new mag of the year! Stay tuned next issue for all the details and ordering info!

T H E U LT I M AT E C O M I C S E X P E R I E N C E !

Capt. Victory: Graphite Edition (Now!) Wertham Was Right! (Now!) Life & Art of Murphy Anderson (Now!) The Extraordinary Works of Alan Moore (July) Against The Grain: MAD Artist Wallace Wood (September) Wallace Wood Checklist (September) Modern Masters V2: George Pérez (September) Legion Companion (September) COPYRIGHTS: Legion of Super-Heroes TM & ©2003 DC Comics. Captain Victory TM & ©2003 Jack Kirby Estate. Pérez characters TM & ©2003 CrossGen Ent. Inc. All others TM & ©2003 the respective artists.

SOT Goes Boom! BECK & SCHAFFENBERGER: SONS OF THUNDER, our split bio of two greats of the Golden & Silver Ages, is cancelled! Due to the tremendous amount of material we've tracked down on both artists, it would do fans a disservice to bundle them together into one book as originally planned. So we're splitting it up into two separate, longer books! Look for details on our expanded KURT SCHAFFENBERGER solo book by year's end, and a separate C.C. BECK book for 2004. Refunds to anyone who preordered SONS OF THUNDER have been sent out. We apologize for the inconvenience, but we're confident fans will be even happier with the end results!

CONTACTS:

John Morrow, publisher, JACK KIRBY COLLECTOR editor, & for subscriptions: twomorrow@aol.com Mike Manley, DRAW! editor: mike@actionplanet.com Roy Thomas, ALTER EGO editor: roydann@ntinet.com P.C. Hamerlinck, FCA editor: fca2001@yahoo.com Danny Fingeroth, WRITE NOW! editor: WriteNowDF@aol.com

SENSE OF WONDER just sold out, but you can find it at www.billschelly.com if you hurry! • I’d order COMIC BOOKS & OTHER NECESSITIES OF LIFE, PANEL DISCUSSIONS, and DRAW! #1 and #2 REAL SOON if I were you... • Fan of old Monster Mags? Watch for CHGGGWOM in October! • Roy’s ALL-STAR COMPANION VOL. TWO in the works! • MODERN MASTERS VOL. THREE? Do the initials B.T. mean anything to you? • Bye, y’all!

Tidbits:

All prices Include US Postage. Outside the US, Add $2 Per Item Canada, $3 Per Item Surface, $7 Per Item Airmail.

Read excerpts from back issues and order from our secure online store at:

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The Iger Counter

The Iger Counter Additions & Corrections to Jay Disbrow’s

THE IGER COMICS KINGDOM by Roy Thomas In Alter Ego #21 we were pleased to feature basically the entire text (plus lost material) of The Iger Comics Kingdom, plus beaucoup art. Golden Age artist Jay Disbrow’s 1985 book told the story of S.M. (Jerry) Iger and his studio/”shop” of comic book personnel, which lasted from circa 1937 through at least the early 1960s. As explained therein, both Jay and Ye Editor knew that, despite latter-day efforts to weed out errors, some mistakes and omissions were still bound to remain in a work of that scope, culled as it had been from the fading memories of Jerry Iger, with relatively little black-&-white documentation to back it up. Still, we felt TICK deserved to be republished as a “work in progress,” with a footnote on both the Iger and the earlier Eisner & Iger shops added from info supplied to us by Jerry G. Bails; and we invited knowledgeable collectors to send us their comments and corrections, for printing in this issue. A number of comic art aficionados took us up on our challenge, and their remarks follow—illustrated, wherever possible.

Author and artist Jay Disbrow drew numerous illos for the 1985 edition of his book, but few made the final cut, so we printed many of them in A/E #21. Here’s one that accidentally got left out, depicting a major Quality hero originated by Will Eisner and Lou Fine. [Art ©2003 Jay Disbrow; Doll Man TM & ©2003 DC Comics.]

First, though, there was the question of copyrights. We asked Bill Black of AC Comics, who supplied many of the art scans and who has reprinted much of the material the Iger shop did for Fiction House, Quality, Fawcett, and other companies, to fill us on his company’s relationship to the Fiction House art he reconstructs and prints:

Bill Black Publisher: AC Comics In 1987, Frank Zeneau (who was working for AC Comics at the time) located T.T. Scott, President and Publisher of Fiction House. Mr. Scott granted reprint rights to the entire Fiction House line—except for Sheena, which was previously sold to Aratow/Columbia—to AC Comics. Thanks for the info, Bill. And keep those great AC reprints coming! They’re one of the great worthwhile projects in today’s comicdom. Roy well remembers meeting producer Paul Aratow, the man whose dream it was to make a Sheena film, on the Warner lot (it was then called the Burbank Studios) when he and partner Gerry Conway were selling screenplays together back in the first half of the 1980s. The Sheena movie was already vaguely in the works, and Paul told them, a bit ruefully, how the star had been cast: “[Columbia studio head] Frank Price just walked into my office one day and announced, ‘Tanya Roberts is Sheena!’” Not surprisingly, Price and Roberts were an “item” at the time. Still, Charlie’s jungle Angel looked great walking down to that African pool, didn’t she, guys? Price, of course, later became known for being dethroned at least partly because of the mammoth egg laid by the film version of Howard the Duck. Incidentally, at present, it seems that the rights to Sheena are in dispute between Aratow and Columbia. Next, the man who co-edited the 1970s Who’s Who of American Comic Books with Jerry G. Bails had this to add about the Iger shop:

Hames Ware Let’s not forget that Jerry Iger was an artist before (and after) he ran his comics shop. Here’s an Iger commercial illustration, autographed in the 1970s for Ken Yodowitz, who shared another one with us in A/E #21. [©2003 the respective copyright holder.]

I have spent my life researching and documenting all areas of the early comics, but none more so than the shops and their staffs. Those Iger and Eisner & Iger shop listings in Alter Ego #21 were my personal contribution to Vol. 4 of the original

The Iger Counter

Who’s Who of American Comic Books... in fact, Jerry himself in its preface states the same. I painstakingly wrote and talked to Jerry Iger, Bob Webb, Al Feldstein, Ray Osrin, and a multitude of others, from all eras of the shop periods from Eisner-Iger right on through the final shop (Bob Webb was the last artist still working for Iger, and in our phone conversations he gave me wonderful stories about all periods, just as Rafael Astarita did for the earliest shop era). It might be of interest to provide a little background as to who were the first-hand sources for the various shops, back in the 1960s and ’70s: For Harry “A” Chesler’s shop, it was Astarita head and shoulders above all others... for the simple reason that Raf had a photographic memory and, on tape, went down the roster, drawing-table by drawingtable, naming each artist and even providing physical description. His artist’s attention to detail even described Chesler himself, cigar ever-present in mouth, tobacco juice staining the art-boards as he admonished Raf to work faster... he wasn’t looking for masterpieces (yet years later it was Astarita that Chesler named as his best artist; he even called Raf, pleading for an original from his modern period). Astarita happily also worked at the Eisner-Iger shop and stayed on after Eisner left. He was the artist Iger tapped to take over some of Eisner’s strips like “Hawks of the Seas” after their split. Curiously, Raf said, of the two, he actually got along better with Iger and felt a bit sad for him, as he was apparently easy to parody in an oversized coat and with a speech impediment. I noticed none of the latter when I spoke with Iger on the phone. I sent Iger and all the others the lists Jerry Bails and I were always compiling with updates of who was at each shop. Each time they added still more.

conclusion of our conversation, was when I asked Webb what he was currently doing, and he said, “Hames, you remember how good I was at drawing boats and ships? Well [laughter now growing to an almost deafening crescendo]... now I’m building them!!” Laughter exploding and trailing off only as we said our goodbyes! I made the postwar Iger shop one of my primary studies... learning, among other things, from personal correspondence with Jack Kamen, that he left Iger earlier than some would believe, due to the fact that Iger quickly found someone to mimic Kamen, just as he had others mimic Matt Baker. This particular Kamen clone was so adept that Jack at one point wrote to me, “Sure looks like me... but it ain’t!!!” Identifying Iger people is a veritable thornbush of tangles, as Iger purposely tried to develop clones of his best artists, anticipating their leaving for greener pastures, resulting in artists like John Forte looking very Iger-ish while there, and non-Igerish before and after his time there. One definite update I can send now concerns the “Johnny Bell” byline. Someone supplied that it’s a pseudonym of John Belfi... an understandable educated guess... but in this case, I’m afraid, a blind alley. Johnny Bell was artist John Belcastro. He signed his full name a time or two, as I recall, but he was also remembered by several of those I interviewed.

Indisputably, one of the best artists in the Iger shop between 1944-54 was Maurice Whitman. Here, repro’d from a photocopy of the original art courtesy of Paul Handler, is a Whitman “Kaänga” page from Jungle Comics #156 (Feb. 1953). [©2003 the respective copyright holder.]

Iger put me in touch with Robert Hayward Webb, who was without a doubt one of the great characters I ever talked to from the Golden Age. He had a loud laugh that punctuated all his remarks, reaching epic proportions at times. For some reason, he insisted his middle name be included in his Who’s Who entry (which of course we’d have done anyway) and made me happy when he said his favorite inker, David Heames, pronounced his last name “Hames,” like my own. He also related wonderful stories about collaborating with Tarpé Mills and confirmed that he was the last artist still on the Iger payroll, right into the early 1960s. But the loudest laughter of all, which came at the

At one point artist “Henry Schroeder” is mentioned. This is Gus Schrotter... prolific at Iger... but also at Binder and Jacquet... and, as recently as last month, while looking through some Chesler titles, there he was, also! Thus making Gustav Schrotter perhaps the only artist to have worked at all four shops! Oh, and the “Phantom Falcons” art on page 25 is by Mort Leav!

Plenty of food for thought there, Hames! And we no sooner finish that verbal repast—than another bodacious banquet is laid before us by Michelle Nolan, longtime comics researcher and writer of a popular column in Comic Book Marketplace magazine:

Michelle Nolan Many thanks for updating and reprinting Jay Disbrow’s entertaining and informative look at The Iger Comics Kingdom. It wouldn’t be fair to expect Mr. Disbrow to remember everything perfectly after so long.

The Iger Counter

P. 26: The following statement is incorrect: “Toward the end of 1944, comic book production had proliferated to the point where 500 individual titles were flowing from various publishers.” In reality, there were 1125 comics published with 1944 dates, only about an 8% increase from 1943, with the total number of titles increasing only slightly from the 175 of 1943. Also incorrect: “Most of these were monthly publications.” Only 43 titles were published 10 to 12 times in 1944. In addition, most 1944 comics were either 48 or 60 pages, not 64 (not counting covers). P. 27: Victor Fox got back into publishing comics in 1944, not November 1945. He resumed publishing Blue Beetle with #31 (June 1944); his last previous issue was #11 (Feb. 1942), with Holyoke publishing #12-30. He resumed publishing Green Mask with #10 (Aug. 1944); the previous issue was #9 (Feb. 1942). He published several other comics in 1944. PP. 31-32: “Firehair” never appeared during the 17-issue run of Fiction House’s Indian Comics, much less got her start there. “Firehair” began in Rangers Comics #21 (Feb. 1945) and continued through #65 (June 1953). “Firehair” also appeared in 11 issues of her own comic (#3-7 were entitled Pioneer West Romances) from 1948-52. By the way, Indian Comics first appeared in 1950, not 1948. Regarding the incorrect “Firehair” caption on page 32 with its reference to Indian Comics, it’s possible that Iger created Firehair in 1944 for her first appearance in

Though Robert Hayward Webb is best remembered for his “Sheena” work, he also penciled (with Ann Brewster inks) a memorable adaptation of Mary Shelley’s novel Frankenstein for Classic Comics (Dec. 1945). [©2003 the respective copyright holder.]

Here are clarifications and corrections: P. 6: In 1943 comic books still had not exploded and the market was not even close to being “glutted with more than 500 individual titles.” Southern California comics historian Dan Stevenson, one of the most dedicated of all indexers, has created an issue-by-issue database with help from me, Jim Vadeboncoeur, Jr., the late Howard Keltner, and others. With the exception of a tiny handful of comics whose existence remains in question, we have tracked all newsstand comic books published in the past 70 years. The total number of comics issued with 1943 dates was 1004, and the total number of different titles was 175, including one-shots. P. 10: The correct spelling of the creator of Buck Rogers was Philip Francis Nowlan, not Nowland. Mandrake the Magician began in 1934, not 1935. The regular Famous Funnies title began in July 1934, not in 1936, and it went monthly with #2 in September 1934, not May 1936. P. 17: Jumbo Comics was reduced to regular size with #9 (Aug.-Sept. 1938), not #8. “Sheena” was originally published in the United States for 15 years (1938-53), not two decades. In addition to the jungle girl in Trader Horn (1931), there was a jungle girl who pre-dated Sheena in the movie serial Queen of the Jungle from the independent Screen Attractions Corporation, but no known print survives. P. 18: Fiction House’s pulp jungle hero Ki-Gor first appeared in Jungle Stories #1, Winter 1939 (copyright 1938), not the mid-1930s. Sheena actually beat Ki-Gor into print!

Because he evidently worked on staff at Fiction House rather than for the Iger shop, we didn’t print any of Bob Lubbers’ “Firehair” art in A/E #21. Here’s a great Lubbers page from Rangers Comics #44 (Dec. 1948), repro’d from the original art courtesy of another major Iger/Fiction House collector, George Hagenauer. [©2003 the respective copyright holder.]

The Iger Counter

Rangers, which would explain the mystery. Remember, too, that not all Fiction House art in the 1940s was created by the Iger shop, explaining why Bob Lubbers and Lee Elias may have no memories of working for Iger. I believe they were on Fiction House’s in-house staff, which was disbanded circa 1949-50 in favor of an entirely freelance system. P. 36: Jack Kamen’s first art for EC appeared in 1950, not 1952. Dick Giordano arrived at DC Comics as an editor in 1968, not the 1980s (it depends on how you define his role!). It’s doubtful Giordano was the only comic book artist to build a popular following primarily as an inker; Marvel’s Joe Sinnott comes to mind. The comic book industry showed few, if any, signs of ill health in 1952, if only because 3161 comics were published that year (give or take a few)—the record until the era of the independents began in the 1980s. There were 2880 comics published in 1953 and 2714 in 1954, so the decline was gradual, especially since the 1952 total was unsustainable on newsstands. P. 39: The 26 episodes of the Sheena television show began release in 1955 or 1956 (not 1957), according to The Complete Directory to Prime Time Network TV Shows. I have TV Guides for 1956 with listings for Sheena, who was the only Fiction House character ever filmed. The rest were, indeed, quickly forgotten. And Batman, of course, debuted on TV in early 1966, not 1965. Thanks, Michelle. We should’ve checked those first-issue and comic strip listings ourselves, but admittedly it never occurred to us that they’d be wrong, since they were so easily checkable! Just shows that you can’t take anything for granted. Even Jay isn’t certain how they occurred. Next, to bring things down to a personal level for a moment:

Bernie Zlotnik First, let me tell you how much I look forward to your Alter Ego every month. I especially enjoyed your last issue on the reprinted Iger story. On page 49, I noticed a name on the personnel list, “Gerald Altman,” mentioned as being a letterer and background artist from 1938 to 1941. The name “Jerry Altman” ran through my memory, so I looked at my diaries from my teenage years and saw my involvement with Mr. Altman on February 15, 1953. I don’t think the little story I’m going to tell you is exciting to you. (He wasn’t one of the great ones.) But the memory of this one day of working with a former Iger artist is exciting to me.

I was raised in Laurelton, Queens, a borough of New York City, and my father had a local shoe repair store on the main street. Mr. Altman was a customer, and one day, prior to Feb. 15, he came into my father’s store and saw my cartooning on signs around the place (store hours, etc.). I was sixteen years old and going to the High School of Industrial Art at that time, hoping to become a cartoonist. He liked what he saw and asked my father to tell me to call him, and I did. He asked me to come over to his house that Sunday at 8:30 a.m. to “black in some photostats.” When I arrived, he gave me some comic pages (I seem to remember they were romance stories) and told me to fill in the backgrounds marked in blue. I stayed until 2:30 p.m., and Jerry gave me $2.20 and the original artwork for the Batman newspaper strip dated February 15, 1946, which today is worth something. I have it framed and hanging in my office. I never went back to work with Altman because the filling-in of blacks was not exciting. I realize now that the Batman strip was probably one for which he had done backgrounds, and that he felt it was taking up a lot of space in his house. (As you know, Kane used a lot of ghost artists, such as Dick Sprang, who probably did the figures in this particular strip.) End of story. I never became a professional cartoonist. Instead, I went to the School of Visual Arts and became a graphic designer, art director, and creative director at Young & Rubicam [a top advertising agency in NYC] for many years. (One of my posters for the Peace Corps hangs in the Smithsonian Institute in Washington as one of the 100 best posters of the 20th century.) Today, I’m still in advertising, with my own consulting business, and I also dabble in the comics industry, doing ads and promotions for clients like Marvel Comics, King Features Syndicate, and Archie Comics. Such tales are far more “exciting” to us than you might imagine, Bernie, so thanks! Meanwhile, here’s a note from a prominent comic art collector:

Frank Bonilla As a major fan of “Sheena, Queen of the Jungle,” I thought you would like to read some historical insights I learned from Jerry Iger’s attorney. The proposed Sheena horror comic Jerry almost did was news. I’ve also included a scan of Irish McCalla as Sheena on an altar, original art I own from the cover of AC Comics’ Irish of the Jungle (artist: Eric Coile). AC publisher Bill Black liked it a lot, and so it became the cover of his Irish McCalla tribute. [We’ll run some of this art in a future Iger update. —Roy.]

’Twould seem likely (though unproven) that one-time Iger shop artist Gerald/Jerry Altman drew the backgrounds—such as they are—for this Batman daily, mostly by Dick Sprang, for Feb. 16, 1946. Maybe Altman had been given the original, which he later passed on to letter-writer Bernie Zlotnik, because he worked on the Batmobile or figures, as well? [©2003 DC Comics.]

The Iger Counter

Jerry also had artwork done of a line of Sheena greeting cards. I mentioned to my attorney friend that I thought the appeal of the leopard-skin pattern is that it brings out the true character of the woman wearing it. Irish comes out honest and moral. Pamela Anderson comes out looking sleazy. Check it out. He agreed with me, but thought Pam would make a good Lorna. He said Jerry always took the high road with Sheena, and that’s why he never had Sheena in Rulah-type situations. Here is the history of Rulah Comics from this former attorney of Jerry Iger’s, and why her stories had her in more peril than Sheena’s: “The ‘Rulah’ story brought back memories of a discussion I once had with Jerry Iger when I was reviewing his work in preparation for a lawsuit. I noticed two things about Rulah. In the first place, villains weren’t content simply to kill her. The villains in Sheena wanted to knock her off the quickest way possible so they could end her interference with their schemes. That wasn’t enough with Rulah. The bad guys in her comic spent a lot of time and energy devising the most sadistic and gruesome ways to finish her off. “The other thing about Rulah is that she was a dope—beautiful, daring, and dumb. She never seemed to use any common sense at all in her adventures and relied on luck to get herself out of the most dangerous traps. Take the story where she falls into a ‘hidden trench’ the size of Lake Michigan—not too bright for a ‘Jungle Goddess.’ She manages to escape through sheer luck, and then she gets the dumb idea to attack the evil Queen Mava in front of all her followers. She’s captured, of course, and Mava plans a typically hideous end for her. She does escape, and she decides to do the same dumb thing she did before— to attack Mava in front of all her followers. This time Rulah’s idiotic plan works. Rulah attributes her triumph to her ‘physical beauty’ and the jungle taking ‘care of itself.’ At least she’s realistic. She knows her brains had nothing to do with it.

Jeff Singh sent us a copy of this partly-completed “Sheena” page, labeled “Jumbo #71,” though of course it would’ve had to be finished before it could appear anywhere. It’s on “Eisner & Iger, Ltd.” art board. Maybe it was an unfinished sample by someone, done for the art shop? [Sheena TM & ©2003 Aratow/Columbia.]

“I asked Jerry about this. He said that Rulah and Phantom Lady were created for Victor Fox of Fox Comics. Fox liked to push his comics to limits of censorship. He wanted beautiful girls (brunettes, mostly) who

My friend (an attorney who once represented Jerry Iger, but who has not authorized the use of his name) asked Iger questions in depth and here’s the answer as to whom Sheena was based on: he said Sheena was not based on anyone famous, but that Jerry was a ladies’ man who had dated tall showgirls, who probably were worked into Sheena. Other Fiction House characters were based on famous women: “Skygirl” by Matt Baker was based on Ann Sheridan. Phantom Lady was based on Linda Darnell, and the famous Phantom Lady bondage cover was based on Jane Russell. Firehair was Maureen O’Hara. He also said to look at Jumbo Comics #144, where Sheena is falling over a cliff head over heels with a lion: she’s a dead-ringer for Irish McCalla. This was drawn before Irish was famous. Due to the increasing popularity of horror comics and the decline of jungle comics, Jerry planned a new comic called Horrors of the Jungle, in the first issue of which Sheena is beheaded! But his attorney said “cooler heads prevailed” and Sheena was not to be killed off. A proposed Raquel Welch Sheena movie was delayed because Jerry wanted more royalties. The delay cost too much time, so Raquel left the project. My friend said that if he had been Jerry’s attorney at the time he would have repaired the problem more quickly. He recalled only one part of the script—the conclusion, wherein Raquel/Sheena is captured by a net and fights the villain in a tower.

Jerry Iger’s anonymous former lawyer calls Rulah, Jungle Goddess, a “dope”—and here she is, in trouble again, in a splash from Rulah #25 (April 1948). Fox printed many of its late-’40s comics, including this one, with the lead story commencing on the inside front cover, in black, white, and tones of red. What—they couldn’t sell that page for an ad? Artist unknown. [©2003 the respective copyright holder.]

The Iger Counter

resembled popular movie stars (Dorothy Lamour, Linda Darnell, Jane Russell) and who wore as little clothing as possible. He also wanted them in the most perils permissible. This meant that plot and character had to be sacrificed and the girls had to get into trouble almost immediately. In order to fall into traps so quickly, they couldn’t be too bright. Makes sense, I guess, but I always thought Rulah’s stories were a bit too crude. On the other hand, I kind-of enjoyed Phantom Lady.

Jerry G. Bails I’m just speculating, but I would guess that dropping Eisner’s name from the art boards was not a high priority with Iger. He probably didn’t want to lose any of his clients and didn’t change the letterheads and art boards any sooner than necessary. Eisner’s name was probably what attracted some of the shop’s clients. Once he established his reliability and quality with his clients, the news that Eisner was gone would probably not have cost him business. That’s just my surmise.

“The Fiction House heroines were derived from pulp fiction characters and were more intelligent. Even Sheena was no genius, though, and a clever villain could usually trap her, but as to Rulah, the patron saint of Jungle Girls had to work overtime to keep her alive.”

And, last but not least, pro artist and A/E associate editor Jim Amash supplied the following updates in staccato fashion:

Jim Amash

Anyway, I thought you might enjoy this historical note.

Les Zakarin wasn’t listed. He worked for Iger from ’47 to ’49.

We sure did, Frank! And now, a couple of additions to our listings from a self-styled “retired cartoonist” and friend of Roy’s since the late ’60s:

Lee Ames is listed as being there from ’41-’43. Lee says he also worked there briefly after WWII.

Trina Robbins

Dick Young was an artist who worked for Iger, c. ’42-’43.

Author and Artist I enjoyed the Fiction House issue of Alter Ego, but unless my eyes are worse than I thought, it looks like you left Marcia Snyder, Fran Hopper, and Lily Renee out of your list of S.M. Iger Studios artists.

Gill Fox did not work for Eisner & Iger. He worked for Busy Arnold and went to Eisner’s shop (after the Eisner-Iger split) and wrote a few weeks of Spirit dailies and did some artwork. But he did this at the behest of Busy Arnold, and wasn’t an employee of Eisner’s.

Anybody got any doubt what Victor Fox thought he was selling in his “Phantom Lady” stories? Here’s a splash from All Top Comics #9 (Jan. 1948), a mag which cover-featured Rulah. It was reprinted in a nice seven-story Phantom Lady color volume by Verotik Publications, 4010 Foothills Blvd. 317-377, Roseville, CA 95747— but that was in 1994. Anybody know if they’re still in business, or if copies are still available? Art by Matt Baker. [©2003 the respective copyright holder.]

Assuming they worked there, Trina, and not simply on staff at places like Fiction House. But we know you researched such matters for your several books on women cartoonists and super-heroes. Every reader was struck by different aspects of TICK... in one case, even the paper on which much of the Iger shop art was drawn:

Don Maris I own two complete stories (art) from Fight Comics #19-20 (both 1942). Before I read The Iger Comics Kingdom story in Alter Ego #21, I sent copies of the art to Will Eisner. His response was that these had been drawn after he left Iger. I did not ask him, nor did he say, why the art boards all have his name at the top. If Eisner left Iger in 1939 or very close to it, why would the boards still say “Eisner & Iger,” with their address? Could they have bought many thousands of boards during Eisner’s stay? I realize this is a very tiny question compared to others, but it has been going around and around in my mind. I shared the above e-mail with A/E’s founder, who had provided us with the shop lists compiled by himself and Hames Ware, and he had this to say:

Vern Henkel told me that he worked at home and was not a shop member. Ray Gotto, not Gotta, was the artist on Ozark Ike. Warren Tuft’s Casey Ruggles newspaper strip started in 1949, not 1947. Matt Baker did not die in 1955, as related. He worked for Vince Colletta in the early 1960s. I don’t recall where I heard this, but someone on the Internet claimed Baker died around 1968. At any rate, he was working in comics in the early ’60s. And there you have it—all the updates and additions and corrections we’ve received to date (though admittedly we might’ve misplaced a couple). If more information is added, we’ll run another installment of “The Iger Counter” in a near-future issue! We never mind having an excuse to print all this art, even if few if any of the guys on it are wearing masks!

re:

43 He must’ve been a real pro to the end, Paul. One of the great regrets of Ye Editor’s in comics is never getting to meet Shelly Mayer, the editor of so many favorite comics back in the late ’40s. Next, a note from Craig Delich, who often researches credits for DC: Roy, I provided DC with the credits for the Batman in World’s Finest Archives, Vol. 1. You mention (on page 35) that the cover artist for WF #6 was unidentified. The artist is Fred Ray! I sent in his name, but somehow DC didn’t list it. Craig Delich Thanks for filling us in, Craig. Actually, though, we should’ve depicted the cover of World’s Finest #8 instead, as per the accompanying All-Star Squadron article. And now, we’ll wind up with a heart-rending anecdote from reader Bruce Pritchard: Dear Mr. Thomas, I wanted to tell you a memory that Irwin Hasen’s cover for #21, the re-creation of All-Star #42, brought back to me.

Artist Mark Glidden has set out to draw comics in the good ol’ 1960s Marvel style—and you can see just how well he succeeds in some current AC Comics (see ad elsewhere in this issue)! Mark sent us this great brandnew, action-packed illo of A/E’s marvelous mascots, the Biljo White-created Alter & Captain Ego, with young Alter Albright using the Z-helmet to turn the alien spaceman into a human fighting-machine. [Art ©2003 Mark Glidden; Alter & Capt. Ego TM & ©2003 Roy Thomas & Bill Schelly.]

[NOTE: The majority of missives concerning A/E #21 dealt with Jay Disbrow’s Iger Comics Kingdom, as covered on our previous article; so this truncated letters section features a trio that dealt with other matters—starting with a message from Paul Levitz, currently publisher and president of DC Comics—a one-time comics scribe himself, and a pretty good one, at that. —Roy.] Dear Roy, Just a note to follow up on the Shelly Mayer conversation in your latest. The “Batman” story Shelly mentioned in passing has an interesting story behind it. In the late ’70s, part of my job at DC was keeping track of the handful of contributors who were paid on salary arrangements because of some quirk of history, most notably Shelly, Bob Kanigher, and Irv Novick. I got to know Shelly through this, and when I became editor of the Batman titles, we got into some energetic conversations about how to do comics well. He disagreed with some of what I was doing in introducing more issue-to-issue plotting, and other, more fundamental matters of storytelling. Being Shelly, he decided that the best way to teach me was to do a sample story (12 pages, as I recall) and annotate it. I learned a few lessons from the dialogue, though we still disagreed on quite a few points, based on the direction I thought comics were evolving toward. My copy is long lost, unfortunately, but I’ve told the tale and tried to pass on some of the lessons many times. So, thirty years after he left his editor’s desk at DC, Shelly was still taking the time to drum storytelling skills into a 20-somethingish kid’s head. He never gave up. Paul Levitz

In the early ’70s I used to go to the comic cons put on by G.B. Love in South Miami. Due to his physical limitations, he needed help setting up at his site. I was always hours early for the show. The tradeoff for setting up the dealers’ tables was that I got first look at what they had. At his show in Miami in 1970 I brought $50 to spend on Golden Age. A half hour before the opening, I bought Fawcetts for $2.50 to $5. A nice copy of Human Torch #5 cost me $25 because the dealer said it was the battle issue. On my way out the door, a kid and his father were coming in with books; I bought Superman #53 and World’s Finest #2 for $20 total. I’ll never forget that the kid turned to his father and said, “See, I told you that we’d find some nut to buy these books!” As I walked back to my car, another car slowed down and a man asked me where the con was. When I asked if he was selling, he got out and opened the trunk. You remember how big the trunks were in 1960s cars? Well, this one was filled to the top with original art. It was all DC, and it was all covers. There had to be over 1000 covers in his trunk. I reached down and picked up the [Neal Adams] Superman cover where the caveman is found in the cave with Superman’s costume on. I also picked up the [Curt Swan] Action cover where Superman and Lex Luthor are in a boxing ring on a planet with a red sun. I started to dig down in the trunk. The covers got older, the deeper you got. About elbow deep I got hold of a cover and pulled it out. In my hands was the cover to All-Star Comics #42. I asked how much he wanted for it and he said he would only sell the whole lot for $500. I tried to convince him that one less cover would not matter. It was no use. $500 for 1000 covers made me dizzy. I told him that if he came to my house I would pay him the money, but since I lived an hour away he wouldn’t go for it. He put the cover back in the trunk and drove away. I walked to the con and watched the first dealer he walked up to buy all the art. To this day it makes me sick to think of what slipped through my fingers. Maybe one day someone will step forward with that cover for you to print in Alter Ego. As of 1970 the cover to All-Star #42 was in someone’s collection down in South Florida. Hope to see it again. Bruce Pritchard 706 Bay Wood Road Dothan, Alabama 36305 Send any comments to: Roy Thomas/Alter Ego Rt. 3, Box 468 St. Matthews, SC 29135 Fax: (803) 826-6501 E-mail: roydann@ntinet.com Th-th-th-that’s all, folks!

The Great Unknowns

“THE GREAT UNKNOWNS” Part I of a New Series

Henry Enoch Sharp by Hames Ware & Jim Vadeboncoeur, Jr. Does the above name resonate with anybody out there? Probably not. As this new, semi-regular Alter Ego column is intended to highlight some of the lesser-known but still talented (and sometimes great) artists of the comic book world prior to the 1960s, one might have expected to encounter another comics artist named Sharp—Hal Sharp—since he at least was associated for many years with DC, doing “The Flash,” “Mr. Terrific,” and other features, as well as work for other publishers. And certainly Hal Sharp deserves coverage! But this piece is about Henry Enoch Sharp... no relation, that we know of.

With the exception of a few features for DC science-fiction titles circa 1952 and ’55, and though in 1950 he contributed illustrations to a handful of western pulp magazines, H.E. Sharp spent nearly his entire comic book career at one company—Ziff-Davis—working primarily on one title, their most successful and long-running: G.I. Joe. His other sporadic work for Ziff was often light-hearted, as in the sf examples shown here; but it’s obvious from his few serious (and always uncredited) efforts that he was capable of so very much more. So it’s no wonder that this excellent and unsung artist isn’t a household name—even in households with a lot of comic books stored away in closets. He seldom if ever signed his work, and by the mid1950s he had exited comic books for the more lucrative medium of television. You can find his name associated with the series Wild Wild West, for which he designed much of the gadgetry for which that show was so well known.

A humorous yet well-drawn Henry Enoch Sharp science-fiction splash page from Ziff-Davis’ Amazing Adventures #4 (July-Aug. 1951)... and a page from AA #6 (Fall ’52). [©2003 the respective copyright holder.]

Henry Enoch Sharp Beyond that, little else is known about Henry Enoch Sharp. Yet, among artists drawing for comics in the 1950s, Sharp deserves to be put in the top tier. Certainly Ziff-Davis was thankful to have him, as he wound up keeping that company in the comics field far longer than it might otherwise have been. Certainly his consistently fine work on their G.I. Joe title helped it to last into the post-Comics Code era. If only Ziff had been able to hold on a little longer, the title might’ve been able to parlay into the G.I. Joe craze that continues to this day.

receives no credit line in the comic book. The term had become instantaneously generic, and that same public domain status probably also accounts for the reason why the current G.I. Joe incarnations make no mention of Mr. Mauldin, the creator of the famed “Willie and Joe,” or the long-running comic book character of yore.) So, little known though he be, Henry Enoch Sharp’s G.I. Joe, with a humorous touch to both art and story (again a nod to Mauldin), helped to perpetuate this popular image of the average American soldier far beyond his short tenure in comics of the ’50s. If you’ll take the time to give a look to this unique artist, you’ll discover why excellent editors like Ziff-Davis’ Herb Rogoff held his work in such high esteem! The only other artist working in comics at that time who comes to mind as having a style that even comes close to Sharp’s knack for combining a serious subject with an always humorous cutting edge, was Mike Suchorsky—an artist who, coincidentally, died in a fishing accident the same year Sharp left comics for good. We’ll offer a look at the amazing Mike Suchorsky next time out... but for now, let’s all savor the artwork of Mr. Henry Enoch Sharp from the Vadeboncoeur Collection!

(“G.I. Joe,” of course, was a World War II term popularized by the late war cartoonist Bill Mauldin, though he

[Some information in the above piece is taken from The Who’s Who of American Comic Books, the 1970s series co-edited by Hames and Jerry G. Bails. To learn about ImageS, Jim Vadeboncoeur’s quality magazine of vintage illustrations, write to 3809 Laguna Avenue, Palo Alto, CA 94306— or go online at images@bpib.com. You’ll be glad you did!]

G.I. Joe #10 (actually #1), was published in 1950 by—oh, you guessed already, huh? Nice work, though! Thanks to Jim Vadeboncouer, Jr., for the art scans that appeared with this piece. [©2003 the respective copyright holder.]

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IRWIN DONENFELD Tells ALL—-Or At Least A Lot—-To

MARK EVANIER ROBERT BEERBOHM & JULIE SCHWARTZ!

KEN BALD SY BARRY WAYNE BORING JOHN BUSCEMA GENE COLAN JAY DISBROW HARRY DONENFELD RON FRENZ MICHAEL T. GILBERT IRWIN HASEN JERRY IGER CARMINE INFANTINO JACK KIRBY JOE KUBERT MICHAEL LARK STAN LEE BOB LUBBERS JERRY ORDWAY ALEX SAVIUK HENRY ENOCH SHARP SIEGEL & SHUSTER DICK SPRANG CURT SWAN MARC SWAYZE ALEX TOTH MARK WAID ALAN WEISS MAURICE WHITMAN JIM AMASH & MORE!!

Plus Rare Art & Artifacts By:

No. 26 July 2003

Vol. 3, No. 26 / July 2003

™

Editor Roy Thomas

Associate Editors Bill Schelly Jim Amash

Design & Layout Christopher Day

Consulting Editor John Morrow

FCA Editor P.C. Hamerlinck

Comic Crypt Editor Michael T. Gilbert

Editors Emeritus Jerry Bails (founder) Ronn Foss, Biljo White, Mike Friedrich

Production Assistant Eric Nolen-Weathington

Cover Artists Wayne Boring Joe Sinnott

The Donenfelds of DC!

Cover Colorists

Contents

Tom Ziuko Joe Sinnott

Writer/Editorial: Donenfeld Times Two . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 “There’s a Lot of Myth Out There!”. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 DC publisher (1948-69) Irwin Donenfeld interviewed by Mark Evanier, Robert Beerbohm —& Julie Schwartz

“Up in the Sky! Look!” . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 29 Founding DC publisher Harry Donenfeld in 1940—with Jerry Siegel and comic Fred Allen! K-Metal: The “Lost” Superman Tale . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 34 Mark Waid talks about the Most Important Superman Story Never Quite Told. Alex Toth on Shelly Mayer, Part II . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 41 FCA [Fawcett Collectors of America] #84 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 43 P.C. Hamerlinck presents Marc Swayze, Ken Bald, and comics on CD-Rom. Joltin’ Joe Sinnott, The Iger Counter, & Other Goodies . . . Flip Us! About Our Cover: The story behind this never-before-published Wayne Boring penciled-andinked Superman drawing—and a previously-printed version by Boring and Jerry Ordway— is told on p. 30. ’Nuff said? From the collection of Roy Thomas. [©2003 DC Comics.] Above: “I was the first kid in the country to read ‘Batman,’” says Irwin Donenfeld. “I liked it better than ‘Superman.’” But by the time the two foremost super-heroes of all time officially met in Superman #76 (July-Aug. 1952), Irwin was their publisher. Read his fascinating story on the next two dozen pages! Art by Curt Swan & John Fischetti; script by Edmond Hamilton. [Art ©2003 DC Comics.] Alter EgoTM is published monthly by TwoMorrows, 1812 Park Drive, Raleigh, NC 27605, USA. Phone: (919) 833-8092. Roy Thomas, Editor. John Morrow, Publisher. Alter Ego Editorial Offices: Rt. 3, Box 468, St. Matthews, SC 29135, USA. Fax: (803) 826-6501; e-mail: roydann@ntinet.com. Send subscription funds to TwoMorrows, NOT to the editorial offices. Single issues: $8 ($10 Canada, $11.00 elsewhere). Twelve-issue subscriptions: $60 US, $120 Canada, $132 elsewhere. All characters are © their respective companies. All material © their creators unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter © Roy Thomas. Alter Ego is a TM of Roy & Dann Thomas. FCA is a TM of P.C. Hamerlinck. Printed in Canada. FIRST PRINTING.

writer/editorial

Donenfeld Times Two! Ever since the 1960s and the early days of comics fandom, I’ve heard the name “Donenfeld.” Harry Donenfeld, the original publisher of DC Comics—or National, as we usually called it then. Irwin Donenfeld— whose name was then appearing in Statements of Ownership, those intriguing once-a-year boxes in comic books that maddened us by leaving blank the space for reporting sales figures, because they could. I, like many others, soon learned that Irwin was Harry’s son and heir. A fullblown dynasty, no less.

1965, I was walking down the hallowed halls of National/DC with my new boss, Superman editor Mort Weisinger, when a dapper and dignified-looking man approached from the other direction. Knowing it was publisher Irwin Donenfeld, I was understandably nervous. Mort introduced me thus: “This is my new assistant, Roy Thomas. He comes from the fanzines.” (An odd choice of words, to be sure!) Mr. Donenfeld nodded a vague sort of approval, said something-orother, and walked on. It’s great to feature you— and even, in a super-rare 1940 recording, your father—in Alter Ego, Mr. D.—and it was nice talking with you two or three times recently, as well. Hopefully, the next time, we won’t let 38 years go by between conversations.

Even better than that: continuity. What could be dearer to a dyed-in-the-wool comics fans than continuity? When I spoke with Irwin Donenfeld this April about the panel/interview Bob Beerbohm had arranged for A/E to print, and queried him about photos he might provide, he countered with a question of his own: “I’ve heard your name for years. But did we ever meet?” Well, we did, as it happens— exactly once, and for about five seconds. Fresh out of small-town Missouri, during my two-week tenure at DC in the summer of

Irwin Donenfeld—Harry Donenfeld—Jerry Siegel—the great radio comedian Fred Allen— and current writing star Mark Waid, with a look at an amazing “lost” adventure of Superman. In this issue, former DC publisher Irwin Donenfeld discusses “urban legends” about Little Archie #1 (1956)— and a certain golf game involving Justice League of America #1 (1960). [The two covers are ©2003 Archie Comic Publications and ©2003 DC Comics, respectively.]

Submit Something To Alter Ego! Alter Ego is on the lookout for items that can be utilized in upcoming issues: • Convention Sketches and Program Books • Unpublished Artwork • Original Scripts (the older the better!) • Photos • Unpublished Interviews • Little-seen Fanzine Material We’re also interested in articles, article ideas, or any other suggestions... and we pay off in FREE COPIES of A/E. (If you’re already an A/E subscriber, we’ll extend your subscription.) Contact: Roy Thomas, Editor Rt. 3, Box 468 St. Matthews, SC 29135 Fax: (803)826-6501 • E-mail: roydann@ntinet.com

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Irwin Donenfeld

“There’s A Lot Of Myth Out There!” And DC Publisher IRWIN DONENFELD Tries to Set It Right—as Interviewed by MARK EVANIER & ROBERT BEERBOHM—oh, yeah, & JULIUS SCHWARTZ Transcribed by Brian K. Morris

Edited and Slightly Abridged by Roy Thomas

Irwin Donenfeld in the early 1960s—surrounded by a montage of National/DC highlights during the years of his tenure as publisher from 1948-1969—including the comic he’s proudest of, Shelly Mayer’s Sugar and Spike. Photo courtesy of I.D. Thanks to Bob Bailey for the scan of the cover of Star Spangled Stories #90 (April-May 1960), and to Bob Beerbohm for Sugar and Spike. [Art ©2003 DC Comics and/or the respective copyright holder.]

“There’s A Lot of Myth Out There!” brother. You have to understand, in those days, in the ’30s and the ’40s, jobs were hard to come by. So when anybody had something going, they hired all the relatives. So my father hired all of his nephews and nieces to work for the company. Jack Liebowitz hired his brother, Mack Liebowitz, and I worked for him.

There may have been photos taken of the Irwin Donenfeld panel in 2001, but none surfaced in time for this issue, so here are (left to right): Irwin Donenfeld today... Bob Beerbohm looking casual at the 1997 Fandom Reunion Luncheon in Chicago, 1997... and Mark Evanier at a Kirby memorial panel at a fairly recent San Diego Comic-Con. I.D. photo courtesy of I.D., Beerbohm photo courtesy of Jeff Smith; Evanier photo courtesy of Tim Lapsley.

[NOTE: The following panel/interview was taped Friday, July 20, 2001, at the San Diego Comic-Con, by Mike Catron and Mark Svensson, assisted by Blake Bell. It was copy-edited by Robert Beerbohm and Roy Thomas, and tweaked by Mark Evanier. —Roy.]

“They Hired Me Because My Father Was the Boss” MARK EVANIER: I’m probably Mark Evanier, and I do a lot of these panels, but this is the one I’ve looked forward to most, because, like probably everyone here, I have a fascination with comics history, particularly DC Comics history. And this gentleman was at the center of an awful lot of it in the years when I started reading the comics and fell in love with them. Joining me to cross-examine our subject is a historian and a person who’s working on a book about comics— maybe he’ll tell us about it later. Mr. Bob Beerbohm, ladies and gentlemen. [applause]

We were in charge of production. That is to say, we created the schedule. In those days, the comic books, the insides, were printed in Bridgeport [Connecticut] and we had our own cover press called Donny Press, and my job was to make sure that the covers would arrive at the bindery at the same time as the insides. I suppose, in the beginning, it must have been tough figuring that out. But after a while, it really was easy, and then I had a lot of time on my hands.

My next big job was working on the Fawcett trial. You may have heard that we sued Fawcett on “Captain Marvel,” and first we lost in the lower courts. On appeal, that’s when I came into it. I worked with the attorney, Louis Nizer, quite a bit. Whit Ellsworth, our editor, went absolutely nuts picking out these “Captain Marvels” and finding in his research on the artwork in them, that they copied everything we did. And it was true. And my job was to find them and show them for the judge. I found one panel that was absolutely beautiful. It showed Superman going into a Nazi dirigible. He leapt through it and out. “Captain Marvel,” a couple months later—the exact same scene. Captain Marvel through the dirigible and out. You could lay one over the other and see the same thing. Mr. Nizer had a gentleman who taught art at a university class, so I said to him, “Take your class”—about fifteen people—“and tell them (the description was from our writer), ‘Superman goes through a dirigible.’ Don’t give any other direction. See what you get.” He came

Our guest was the editorial director of DC Comics in the late ’40s through 1969. He’ll tell us later what that encompassed, but essentially, he ran the place. His father founded the place. We’ll be talking about him, as well. There are a lot of people in this business whose names you know because they wrote or drew the stories. There are other people who are less famous to the readers, because their skills were a little less easy to define, but they had a major effect on what appeared in the books. This gentleman has never been to a convention before, so we’re delighted to have him here... Mr. Irwin Donenfeld. [applause] The first obvious question is how did you get your start? When did you get into a management-type position at DC and how did that come about? DONENFELD: In 1948, I was already married and had a child. I graduated from college and I went up to DC and I showed them that I was a college graduate, I had a keen intellect, and they hired me because my father was the boss. [laughter] I remember one of my first jobs was in this big production room, and there’s piles and piles of artwork. Nobody wanted any of it, so I stood there and I chopped it all up, and that was the first thing I did. Of course, I chopped up about a jillion dollars’ worth of stuff, today, but I had a clean office. You can’t go wrong with that. My first job was with a man named Mack Liebowitz—my father’s partner, Jack Liebowitz’s,

The Superman-Captain Marvel lawsuit is still being argued out of court after sixty years! We didn’t feel like scrounging through hundreds of old comics to find a drawing of the two heroes smashing through a dirigible—and A/E’s editor freely admits to being skeptical of specific art claims, though who’s to say that some Fawcett artist didn’t swipe a “Superman” drawing sometime, out of sheer laziness? Still, as we opined a couple of issues back, it did seem like waving a red flag (or red union suit) in front of a bull for Captain Marvel to smash a car on his very first cover, when Superman had done the same thing a year and a half earlier on that of Action #1! Strangely enough, both covers are now ©2003 DC Comics!

Irwin Donenfeld

Louis Nizer, one of DC’s attorneys during much of the lawsuit against Fawcett, was a famous trial lawyer during the 1940s and ’50s. His 1961 memoir My Life in Court was a bestseller. It was rumored in the ’60s that in a future book he would write about the Superman-Captain Marvel lawsuit, but it never happened. [©2003 Doubleday & Co.]

“You May Not Know the Story...” ME: Not everyone knows the story. Will you brief us? DONENFELD: There was a man by the name of Major [Malcolm Wheeler-]Nicholson, and he was the first man to produce a comic book that had original art in it. Prior to that, all comic books were reprints from the newspapers. So Nicholson had a great idea, worked hard at it, but he was not a good businessman and he went broke. And when he did, Dad had a lot of stuff that he’d already printed for Major Nicholson and he didn’t know what to do with it. Dad knew a man by the name of Paul Sampliner. Paul Sampliner owned the company that distributed Major Nicholson’s magazines, and in those days—I don’t know about now—everybody got an advance. If a publisher brought in his magazine, and the distributor figured it was going to sell 50%, he got his 50% ahead of time so he could pay the printer. So when Major Nicholson went broke, he already had the advance money, and there was nothing there for the distributor. Dad got hold of him and said, “Let’s start a new one.” And Paul Sampliner said, “Yeah, but where are we going to get the money from?” And Dad said, “From your mother.”

back the next day with fifteen versions of Superman going through a dirigible, proving that these [Fawcett] guys just followed, just copied everything that we did. And my feeling is that it broke the case, because they settled shortly thereafter. BOB BEERBOHM: Just because none of these panels matched up to the one that was in “Captain Marvel”?

And it’s a fact. Mrs. Sampliner gave them the money to start Independent News Company, and Dad’s first jobs, in those days, were to try to get the wholesalers of all the various towns to handle the magazines, because if they didn’t handle them, there was no place to go. That was his job, to go all around the country—and I never saw him for weeks at a time—making sure that these people knew who he was and that they would take care of his magazines. His first magazines after that

DONENFELD: Yeah, nothing looked the same [in the student drawings], everything was different, fifteen different versions of how Superman would go into a dirigible. BB: Why don’t you tell us about your father, Harry Donenfeld? DONENFELD: My father was quite a character. He started—well, going way, way back, my father had three brothers. The first one was Charlie. He was the oldest and he started over at Donny Press. And then he had two other brothers, Irving and Mike. And Dad was the salesman for Donny Press. Mike worked for the paper company and sold the paper to us, and so that’s how he got paid. Irving worked for the ink company, and that’s how he got paid. BB: And Irving was never known as Irwin. DONENFELD: No. BB: There’s a lot of myth out there. DONENFELD: I was the only Irwin. My uncle Irving had a problem. He had a terrible stutter. One day, Dad was at the counter. A man came in and said, “I’m looking-guh-guh for M-m-mister D-D-Donenfeld.” Dad went back and said, “Irving, someone wants to talk to you.” So Uncle Irving with the terrible stutter went back, heard what this man said, came back to Dad and said, “What do you want me to do, g-g-get killed?” [laughs] But that’s how the thing was set up. Dad was the salesman. He worked with Hearst Magazines and the Ladies Garment Union, and he sold them and he did all the printing for them. And of course, the story’s that Major Nicholson went broke, stuck Dad with a whole bunch of magazines and a lot of debt.

Harry Donenfeld, looking like a movie studio mogul. Photo by I.D.

Major Malcolmn Wheeler-Nicholson was an ex-military man and pulp magazine writer who didn’t make a success of being a publisher. But the company he founded as National Allied Publishing in 1935 to publish New Fun Comics survives to this day as DC. The cover and several black-&-white comics pages from NFC #1 surround the dot-photo of the Major and Steven Petruccio’s cartoons from that strange 1985 publication, Fifty Who Made DC Great, put out to celebrate National/DC’s fiftieth anniversary. Thanks to Jerry G. Bails for a good scan of the above page. [©2003 DC Comics.]

“There’s A Lot of Myth Out There!”

Irwin Donenfeld

I would go up to the office and work on a table, and they’d show me how to package, and tie the packages. And then I would hide around the corner and we would look at the magazines. Well, one day, I went into the office and Dad was there. He said, “Come here, I want to show you something.” I said, “What is it?” I looked down and it was the original “Superman.” “So what do you think?” I read it— BB: It was the original art?

A young Irwin Donenfeld (left) at a card game with Independent News cofounder Paul Sampliner (right) and two unidentified executives from that company. Photo supplied by I.D.

were apparently a little on the sleazy side: Spicy Adventures, Spicy Detective, and Silk Stockings, and things like that. And they sold very, very well and he made an awful lot of money and now he’s able to hire all of his relatives to do the work. [laughs] In those days, we had a wholesaler in a major town, and he had a territory of maybe twenty miles, fifteen miles, little pockets of towns. There was no way, then, of a wholesaler delivering magazines to these people, because it didn’t pay to run that far. So they would tell the publishing companies—us—or the distributing companies, “Such-andsuch a deal, such-and-such advance, and five of this, four of that, six of another,” whatever. And we had a moving table and we made all the packages and that was with my cousins, whom I worshiped—big, brawny guys. I was twelve years old.

DONENFELD: The original art, yeah. It eventually appeared in Action #1. I read it and I liked it. I thought it was good. Now, just because I said I thought it was good was not the reason he decided to publish it. He had his own way, and he’s going to publish it and he’s going to try this out and, of course, it worked. Now, you must also remember that when he put out that first issue of Action Comics, he put it out on the stand—I don’t remember what the print run was—he already had the second magazine [= issue] in artwork. And he also had the third magazine that they were preparing artwork for. So he had invested a fortune in something that maybe nobody wanted. You may not know the story that Charlie Gaines and [Jerry] Siegel and [Joe] Shuster, the ones who created “Superman,” they went everywhere around, trying to sell and publish it. And nobody wanted it. So one day, Mr. Gaines said, “Why don’t you go to the fellow you’re working for now? Maybe he’s dumb enough to try it.” Siegel and Shuster Harry Donenfeld and Paul Sampliner’s first joint already worked for Dad venture was the Spicy line of pulp magazines on a strip called “Slam begun in 1934, such as Spicy-Adventure Stories Bradley,” so they were (note the hyphen on the cover—you don’t always there. So Dad was usually see it written that way). The cover of dumb enough and he the August 1937 issue was by H.J. Ward, who tried it. And the rest of it later did the famous Superman painting is history. “Superman” glimpsed on page 33. [©2003 the respective copyright holder.] took off like you can’t believe, or you can believe, and started a whole line of magazines, and soon we had “Batman”—and I was the first kid in the country to read “Batman.” I liked it better than “Superman.” [laughs] It was better artwork, it really was. And then I went off to college and I went off to the war and I was sort of a simple man—I spent most of the time in boxing rings, fighting. My kids asked me, “What did you do in the war, Daddy?” I said, “I beat up Americans.” [laughs] Yeah, I was on three different fields and I was Lightweight Champ on all three fields. ME: Let’s look at the first “Superman.” Now, we had Vin Sullivan on this panel a couple of years ago, and he told a little about those days. Let’s go through the details as he told them and see if you remember them the same way. He said that Max Gaines was looking for— DONENFELD: Let me tell you this: his name was Charlie Gaines. He was never called “Max” Gaines.

This 1979 penciled profile of Superman by co-creator Joe Shuster was offered for auction through Sotheby’s in 1991 in a $1000-$1500 price range. [Art ©2003 Estate of Joe Shuster; Superman TM & ©2003 DC Comics.]

JULIUS SCHWARTZ: [from audience] I always called him “Mr. Gaines.” [laughs]

“There’s A Lot of Myth Out There!” DONENFELD: As I recollect it, it was this big. [indicates full-sized comic page] It was not in strip form. I saw this stuff when it was ready to go to the printer. ME: Now, at this point, the company was a very small company. Vin Sullivan was the in-house editor. Did you know Vin? DONENFELD: No. ME: At what age were you conscious of the fact that your father ran a comic book company? DONENFELD: Oh, the biggest thing was when I was twelve years old, I would go to camp, Camp Kenmont in Connecticut, and Dad would come up with a bunch of comic books. I was famous in camp. If you were nasty to me, you weren’t getting any comic books. [laughs] So, yes, I knew then that he was in that business. I collected them all, read them all, gave them all away. Who wants an old comic book? [laughs] ME: Now to segue here, from the printing business to the publishing business. When he was in the printing business, was he more of a printer-broker or a printer? DONENFELD: He was a salesman for Donny Press. Uncle Charlie was the one who started that.

Call him Charlie—call him Mr. Gaines—but don’t call him Max! The photo of M.C. Gaines, co-founder of the All-American Comics group which gave the world The Flash, Green Lantern, the Justice Society of America, and Wonder Woman, among others, was flanked in Fifty Who Made DC Great by Steven Petruccio cartoons. Thanks to Jerry Bails. [©2003 DC Comics.]

DONENFELD: So did I. [laughs] ME: Mr. Gaines was working for a syndicate, and he had some printing presses he was trying to get business for. He came to your father and said, “Why don’t you print more comic books?” Your father said, “I want to, but I don’t know if I have material for them. I don’t have enough strips.” And Gaines said, “Let me see if I can pick up some stuff for you.” At that time, he had Sheldon Mayer as his in-house editor, and Mayer got out a few things, including the first “Superman” strip with Siegel and Shuster, and submitted them. Gaines sent it over to your father. Your father looked at it—apparently you gave your recommendation at that point—and they decided to publish it. Does anyone sitting here disagree with—did you understand it?

ME: At some point, your father decided that he was going to be a publisher, primarily, and then he segued into the distribution business. DONENFELD: This is one of the gambles he took in life. He took many of them. He could have gone broke. He could have decided to forget the whole thing and just stay as a broker and sell to Hearst and the Ladies Garment Union. But he grabbed the opportunity, as very few people can do, and he pushed it forward. And he eventually started with other people when he put out the sleazy magazines. He had partners in all of that, because they were the bunch that put him in, too. And he

DONENFELD: Yes, absolutely. Everything you said is correct. SCHWARTZ: Okay, one thing, your father did not like the cover. Well, he said this crazy idea of somebody throwing an automobile across there was silly. DONENFELD: No, he liked it.

“Urban Legends” ME: One of the things we’re going to try to cover, and I’ve got a little list in here, is these anecdotes that float around about DC in the ’40s and ’50s, and such. BB: The urban legends. ME: Yes, this came out of nowhere. We’re going to see if there’s any truth to this. Mike, do you want to add something? [Fan/collector Mike Catron is videotaping the panel.] MIKE CATRON: I’d like to ask you about the first Superman strips that you read. Did you read them in page form, or did you read them in daily strip form?

Most of the first “Superman” story, in 1938’s Action Comics #1, was pasted together from sample newspaper dailies prepared earlier by Siegel and Shuster. Hence the diagonal lines on the “blue” areas of the hero’s costume, to focus the reader’s eye in panels originally designed to be printed in black-&-white. [©2003 DC Comics.]

Irwin Donenfeld

BB: Victor Fox would have been just a bookkeeper, and “Uncle Jack” was in control of the finances? DONENFELD: Yes.

“I Grew Up in the Magazine Business” ME: So you watched as that first Action Comics was published, the first “Batman.” [in Detective Comics #27] Did you have any real sense that comic books were something stable, that they were the future of the family? Were they thinking at this point, “Gee, I hope this lasts three or four years,” or did they actually see this as a longterm dynasty? DONENFELD: Oh, long-term, for sure, because the magazines were selling very well, and then we got into the war, and everything they put out sold. I mean 100%. Of course, in those days, you know what the tax rate was? 90%! So, during the war years, if you made a hundred thousand dollars, Uncle Sam got 90,000 and you got ten. Members of the wedding—Irwin Donenfeld’s wedding, in 1947, to be exact. (L. to r.: Harry Donenfeld, Jack Liebowitz, Irwin Donenfeld. Photo supplied by I.D.

began to build an empire that way. He took the gamble to be a publisher at a time when everybody else was going broke. BB: He was printing for those people also, like Frank Armer. Those people ended up owing Harry money, so he kind-of absorbed these up for debt. He got into the publishing business almost by accident— because these publishers owed him money. DONENFELD: Exactly right. ME: Which is exactly the way Edward Wadewitz founded Western Printing. He was the accountant for a printer who was in debt to him, so he wound up taking over the printing company. At what point would you say your father became financially stable? DONENFELD: In the early ’30s, the magazines were selling well, and he was making all these trips around the country and getting the magazines into the wholesalers. ME: Now, around this time—maybe I should count all the beans here for people—Victor Fox. Ever have anything to do with him? DONENFELD: No. I met him because he worked for Dad at one time, and then he apparently decided he could do better, pulled out on his own, and created another Superman. And apparently, in so doing, he went out of business real quick. ME: The story’s always told that he was working for your father, he saw the sales figures on the first Action Comics, and he went upstairs and rented an office in the same building the same day. He was publishing comics the next day.

ME: At what age did you say to yourself, “Gee, I think I might go into that business”? DONENFELD: When I was seven. ME: Did you ever consider any other line of work? DONENFELD: No. I grew up in the magazine business. Dad and Mom, every night when we had dinner, talked either politics or publishing, and I grew up knowing everything. Dad was the kind of guy who went out of his way to meet people, and his circle of friends was incredible—from Eleanor Roosevelt to Frank Costello and all the judges in between. You know who Frank Costello was? The head of the Mafia—and he was a friend of my father’s. I don’t know how they got together. One day in the late ’40s, I moved to Long Island, to a town called Sands Point, and Frank Costello had a house right around the corner. This was a Sunday morning and I’m still in bed. My wife is up; my mother-in-law was with her to help us move into this new house. And there’s a knock on the door and this man says—you know Frank Costello’s voice? Frank had a voice [gruff] like this: “Is Harry Donenfeld here?” And my wife said, “No, we expect him later this afternoon.” [gruff] “Well, tell him Mr. Costello was here... Frank Costello.” And the door slams. I’m out of bed and I run to the kitchen, and the two of them have their coffee cups like this—[shakes nervously] coffee sloshing all over the place. [laughs] But I never did get to meet Frank Costello. ME: 1941 was when Abe Reles was killed—the top informant

DONENFELD: Yeah, that could very well be true. ME: Did Jack Liebowitz take Fox’s place when he left? DONENFELD: Yeah. Dad used to play cards with Jack Liebowitz’s father, and they both worked for the Ladies Garment Workers Union. Dad saw he needed somebody to run the organization when he wasn’t there. He picked Jack Liebowitz out and gave him a job.

When “dapper, grackle-voiced” Frank Costello, reputed mob chieftain, testified before the Kefauver Commission in New York City in 1950. TV cameras were forbidden to show his face, so concentrated on his hands, which, as a Time-Life book reported, “writhed more expressively than could any face.” Photos of his face as he testified ran in the evening newspapers, though. Go figure.

“There’s A Lot of Myth Out There!”

against Murder, Incorporated, whom Frank Costello suspected of being paid off. He engineered that. DONENFELD: Well, there was the Kefauver Commission. And Costello would not let them photograph his face, just his hands. So everybody in the country then knew [imitating Costello] that voice.

“He Knew Everything That Was Going On”

and how to have them work for you. He was terrific at that. ME: How much was he involved in the creative end of working on pages? DONENFELD: He wasn’t.

“It Had a Dinosaur on the Cover”

BB: Where were your mom and dad from?

ME: Can you tell me about Whitney Ellsworth?

DONENFELD: Well, Mom was Russian and Dad was Romanian.

DONENFELD: Mostly. Yeah, after Vin Sullivan left, Whit Ellsworth came in, and I have to say that when I joined the company in ’48, Whitney Ellsworth had the company all set up. All my editors were there, and the writers were there, everything was there I had to do, and Whit Ellsworth did it all, and I was just in there to help out until Whit Ellsworth went to California [in 1953, to produce the Adventures of Superman TV series]. And then I became head of the whole thing because there was nobody else. I had all the stock. [laughs]

ME: And when did your father start the business? When did you get to the point of being financially solid? DONENFELD: In the early ’30s. The magazines were selling well, he was making a lot of money. And we moved from the Bronx to Manhattan. I knew we were doing well when that happened. Now we lived on Riverside Drive, 83rd Street. ME: Did he have a real feeling for being in publishing, or was it just a business to him? DONENFELD: No, no. He was a publisher. He knew everything that was going on. He made all the major decisions. Jack, he ran the company under him, and all decisions were made by Dad. What we are going to do, how we’re going to do it, he knew what to do. He had a great sense of how to do things, how to meet people and how to make them friends

ME: Did you want that job? Is that how you got in there? DONENFELD: Oh, absolutely. You have to understand, we had two companies: DC Comics and Independent News Company, and we owned Independent News Company, so I owned that company as well. So I spent a lot of time at Independent News. By the time I got there, it was a major, major company, thanks to people like Jack Adams, who ran it at that time. And I would go around to all the people that worked there and arrange for them to send me all their reports. In those days, we

The Independent News Company staff (late-’40s or 1950s?). Left to right seated are Ben Goldberg, Jack Liebowitz, Paul Sampliner, Irwin Donenfeld, and general manager Harold Chamberlain. The lesser lights standing in the back row couldn’t be unidentified. “It’s good to be the king(s)!” The company was founded in 1932. Photo courtesy of I.D.

Irwin Donenfeld

numbers for sales, a percentage. One of them is the early returns, the snap galley, and the other number is the final, which might be off two or three percent. Let me just read a few of these. Here’s Justice League #1. The press run was 425,000, the early returns of the book sold 79%. The final said 82%, so the final sales would be 335,000. The next issue, 450 is the press run. It sold 70%. DONENFELD: We don’t know at this time, when printing the second issue, what the first issue is going to do. ME: There’s a drop here. Third issue, the press run is at 500,000. Now here, you’ve upped the press run. 425 on #1, 450 on #2, and 500 on #3. DONENFELD: Now we knew something.

had what we called “traveling men,” who had a territory. They would go into a wholesaler’s place, write up reports, and when the report came in, I took the comic book section. I could see, right away, very early, what’s good or what’s bad. One day, I saw somebody had put out a war book. What the hell is a war book? I got hold of it, and it was selling quite well, and I said, “Oh, we’ll have to have war books, too.” I decided on Bob Kanigher [as editor], and he put out some great, great magazines, and we did very, very well with the war books. ME: What was a good-selling comic book for this time, circulationwise? DONENFELD: Let me put it this way: if the sales went below a quarter of a million, I killed the book. I sold over 7,000,000 copies a month and at one time I had about 32 magazines, so we closed one and a half titles every working day. ME: Was Superman your best-selling comics during this period? DONENFELD: Amazingly enough, at one time, Mutt and Jeff was our best-seller. [laughs] ME: How many copies of Mutt and Jeff were sold to make it the bestseller of the comic books? DONENFELD: Around 800,000 to a million-two. ME: And what was, percentage-wise, a good sale? 65%? 80%? DONENFELD: Depends on where you’re talking. When the sales got real bad, we went from 64 pages to 48 pages, and sales got a little worse. We went from 48 pages to 32. So that’s how we kept the print runs high, and the percentages didn’t matter as much, because it didn’t cost as much to put out a 32 as a 48. Now, good sales—let’s say 55, 58%—[he holds up a sheet of paper] ME: Let’s explain what this is for a minute, because this is kinda nice. This is a page of a ledger Paul Levitz dug out of the DC files. This is a run of Justice League here, photographs of the covers, and underneath them are numbers: the number of copies printed, and there’s

ME: You got the early returns. That caused you to raise the press run on the second issue and on the third. And the book is selling 68% pretty consistently, between 68% and 70% for some time. When it gets down to issue #4, 5... Green Arrow joins in #4. Is Mark Waid taking notes? [laughs] Okay, for 500,000, they sell 65, 66%, for a sale of 325,000. Consistently, the book was selling around, between 300— #10 dips a lot at a 50% sale. The last issue on this sheet is the first Justice League/Justice Society team-up, which was #21 and that sold—press run’s 578, sales figure is 61% on the early count, 66% final, for a sale of 378. And we have others here. But let’s head back to Justice League at this point, ending up as your top-selling book, a middle-level book? DONENFELD: Middle-level book. ME: So a middle-level book would be selling 335,000 copies, 340,000 copies, 400,000 copies. Superman would, at this point, have been selling 800,000... 900,000? DONENFELD: A million. ME: [addressing Julius Schwartz, seated in the audience] Julie, did they give you this kind of information at this time? What did you know about the sales? JULIUS SCHWARTZ: He’d bring in a weekly report. He’d never give us exact sales numbers; he’d throw the percentages at us and say, “Up 6, good. Down 3, poor.” And every once in a while, he’d say, “Down 2... very, very good.” I said, “How could it be very, very good?” And he’d explain the whole line was down 6 to 8 points. DONENFELD: You have to understand that the peak sales were during the months of July and August. The next peak sales were in November and December. So in between, we may not have sold our 7,000,000, maybe only 6,000,000 sold, but come July

“There’s A Lot of Myth Out There!” and August, we’re selling eight or nine million copies.

I read, one day, that somebody put out a romance magazine and it was doing very well. I gotta have a romance magazine. So enter Jack Liebowitz—I always called him “Uncle Jack”—and I said, “Romance is doing very well, and we’ll put out some romance books.” He said, “Yeah, but we shouldn’t have that as part of our advertising group.” A little birdie told Ye Editor that, of all the photos An advertising we could print of Julie Schwartz, legendary DC editor group was the from 1944-85, he’d prefer the one by Beth Gwinn that Red Unit and a graces the cover of his 2000 memoir Man of Two Worlds. Blue Unit. It It’s still on sale, people! [©2003 Julius Schwartz; didn’t make any Superman TM & ©2003 DC Comics.] sense to me, but we did it. I hired a young lady named Zena Brody, and she put out four [romance] magazines, and they did very, very well. SCHWARTZ: Wait a second. The first magazine I can recall is Romance Trail. It was you or someone who said, “Let’s do romance from a different angle and we’ll put it out west.” [laughs] Do you remember Romance Trail at all? It may have come from that. That one sold well, then we got into romance magazines and Zena Brody put them out.

DONENFELD: Every day. [laughs] Every day, I got a report on all the sales that were going on in whatever town it was. We had traveling men and we had local men. The local man would stay in one town, and he’d work all the racks and make sure our magazines were out. These racks were the same we sent to the various stores, to keep our sales up. ME: When you looked at the sales figures here, what did these tell you in terms of what is commercial? You’d look at this and say, “Gee, the covers of this aren’t doing well. The yellow covers aren’t doing well”? DONENFELD: That’s another story. I had this kind of a page [indicates ledger page] on every magazine we published, so I would flip the pages and see what was going on. All of a sudden, I would see a spike. Why did this one go up? Well, it had a dinosaur on the cover. [laughs] Oh ho! From then on, every month, one of the editors had a magazine with a dinosaur on it. Tomahawk had a dinosaur on it! [laughs]

BB: But everybody was aware that Simon and Kirby’s Young Romance and Young Love were kicking ass in those days. ME: Then you [DC] acquired them. To what extent, at this point, did you keep tabs on the competitors? Did you look at their sales figures closely?

“Tomahawk had a dinosaur on it!” Actually, Mr. D., Bob Bailey sent us scans of at least four Tomahawk dinosaurs covers—three, if pterosaurs don’t count. The big reptiles seem ubiquitous on 1950s-60s DC covers. Here, almost at random, are the covers for Tomahawk #58 (Sept.-Oct. ’58) by Bob Brown, Blackhawk #143 (Dec. 1959) by Dick Dillon and Chuck Cuidera, and The Adventures of Rex the Wonder Dog #11 (Sept.-Oct. 1953) by Gil Kane. And we didn’t even throw in a “War That Time Forgot” cover—but see p. 3! [©2003 DC Comics.]

Irwin Donenfeld

“Julie Was One of My Very, Very Best Editors” [Julie Schwartz makes a comment from the audience. At Mark Evanier’s invitation, he joins the panel onstage.] DONENFELD: Julie was one of my very, very best editors and one of my very best friends at the time. SCHWARTZ: I remember him running into the office, “What happened to Strange Adventures #8?” I said, “Well, let’s look at the cover.” We did, and it had the following scene: we see it takes place in a zoo. We see a cage, and inside the cage there’s a gorilla and he’s holding in his hand a slate and prints down, “Dear Helen, please help me—I’m the victim of a horrible scientific experiment.” [laughs] We decided perhaps it was because the gorilla was acting like a human being. Irwin says, “Let’s do it again.” We did another cover scene—I think it was a court scene, with a gorilla testifying. And we did a third one and Irwin said, “That’s it. Gorilla covers!” We started to use the gorilla covers until Irwin said in desperation, “Stop! No more than one gorilla cover a month!” [laughs] Irwin also figured other things that I did, in Mystery in Space, that sharpened the circulation. If it showed the Earth in a strange position, it drew the audience. For example, in one shot, I had the Earth cleanly sliced in two. In another, the spaceship was towing the Earth through space. In another one, Earth was caught inside a huge safe. In another one... well, it kept on and on. Every one of those great covers sold well. That was another gimmick that everyone found out about. I think you also explained, but I never understood, why you figured someone in a jail cell would sell well. Do you recall? DONENFELD: Yeah, yeah. When you have a page like this and you get all the reports, and you know what it’s supposed to be, and it doesn’t live up to what it should have been, it’s the cover’s fault, because that was the only thing we had to show. But if the sales spiked high, it was the benefit of the cover. Well, what was in that cover that made it happen? And that’s how we determined all those things. SCHWARTZ: You know, how a magazine sold—all they ever had were the contents or the title. What was the cover? And we sweated bullets coming up with ideas, till suddenly I got an idea I stole from the pulp magazines. Rather than have a finished story and artwork and then looking for a scene to put on the cover, I said, “Let’s do the covers first.” We’ll hook them—we’ll come up with a strange, provocative situation. Then we’ll call in the writer and figure out how it happened.

Since you already saw the cover of Strange Adventures #8 on p. 3, at left is another of Irwin and Julie’s “gorilla covers” (S.A. #117, Jan. 1960)—plus (above) the splash page of S.A. #55 (April 1955), with Sy Barry art. Repro’d from a photocopy of the original art, courtesy of George Hagenauer. And these are only the tip of a hairy iceberg! Grodd was standing in a long, long line. [©2003 DC Comics.]

My best example is a Flash cover. I called Carmine Infantino. We came up with the idea, we show a close-up of The Flash, holding up his hand towards the reader like a traffic cop, and the balloon said, big lettering, “Stop! Don’t pass this magazine by! My life depends on it!” [laughs] I called John Broome in and worked out a story that dealt with this situation. And that happened time and time again. I would say four out of five covers were done before the magazine’s contents were finished. And incidentally, I told that in my little book here, Man of Two Worlds... [he holds up a copy of his autobiography; audience laughs] ME: How many people have already bought the book? [applause] Everybody. DONENFELD: I’m not in the book. [laughs] He didn’t know me in those days.

“There’s A Lot of Myth Out There!” DONENFELD: No, they got a black-&white positive. Like a silver print but a positive, that they were able to photograph and do their own coloring. AUDIENCE MEMBER: But the artwork never went overseas? DONENFELD: No, no. I chopped it up. [laughs] ME: I’m going to stray on the structure of the company. At this time, was your father taking a more or a less active part in this? DONENFELD: He retired at a fairly early age, because he had his own thing that he wanted to do. He was out with the judges and people, and we never saw him. ME: The story was that Jack Liebowitz was given a share of the company to keep him there.

Two “Earth-in-a-strange-position” covers edited by Julie for Irwin: Mystery in Space #38 (July ’57), artist uncertain... and Strange Adventures #150 (March 1963), art by Murphy Anderson. There were more! [©2003 DC Comics.]

“DC’s First Editorial Director” BB: Irwin, when you first started working full-time at DC and when Whit Ellsworth moved out to Hollywood, you became DC’s first editorial director. You did a lot of innovations then that had never been done at DC before—like, you started calling the first editorial meetings, you gathered all the editors together.

DONENFELD: No, no, no. Dad was that kind of a guy, because he had to reward him somehow, so he bought out [M.C. Gaines’] AllAmerican Comics. Jack was a partner there, and when he bought it out, Dad owned it, but he gave all the stock in that to Jack Liebowitz. Now he became a partner.

ME: Did your father ever own a piece of All-American? DONENFELD: I think so. BB: He began in ’39. I think it was with Charlie and Harry—they were in partnership together.

DONENFELD: Well, that was much later, when we moved from 480 Lex to 575. BB: And you started saving the negatives. They weren’t saving the negatives before you made the decision that these were a valuable commodity. DONENFELD: The way a magazine was published in those days is, the artist had his art on a sheet like this [gestures to indicate the dimensions of an original art page]. It went to the engraver and he took a photograph of it. From that, he made a black-&-white silver print which came back to us, and our colorists then colored it in. And from the colored version, they made the engraving and were able to print the book. So one day I said to [production manager] Sol Harrison, “What are they doing with the negatives?” He said, “They put it in a bath and they get all the silver out of it.” “Call them. Malarkey. I want them.” And from then on, every magazine we published, I got all the black-&-white negatives. So anything you want, we have it right here. And one day, Jack said, “Why don’t we use it again and do some reprints and sell the magazines and we’ll save some money?” Not a problem. We took it out and out we went. What really upset me at the time was, I wanted to reimburse the guys who did it originally, and Jack told me not to. And that was a mistake. We should have taken care of the artists better. But at any rate, that’s how we did our reprints. AUDIENCE MEMBER: Were the negatives sent overseas to places like Australia and the United Kingdom to produce reprints in those countries, or were they originals?

Production manager (and later vice president) Sol Harrison, too, was featured in 1985 as one of Fifty Who Made DC Great, surrounded by Steven Petruccio cartoons. Thanks to Jerry Bails. [©2003 DC Comics.]

Irwin Donenfeld

15 kids reading my comic magazines were learning how to read. When they sat in front of a television set, they had no knowledge, nothing worked for them. And we created something that was great. ME: How would the decision be made if you were going to add a new book? Did you make that decision? DONENFELD: Yes. ME: And you just would go to Jack Liebowitz and say, “I’m adding a new title”?

DONENFELD: For a while there, I would just go in and tell him what I was going to do, and he’d be, “Well, yeah, I don’t know.” So I had an idea. “I chopped it up,” says Irwin D.—and indeed, most DC art, published or not, was eventually cut into slices and consigned to the company incinerator by “interns” (like Marv Wolfman in the late ’60s.) This one-third of a “Green Lantern” story page from a After that, I went in and said, (probably) never-printed story was penciled by Irwin Hasen, and was officially “Written Off” for tax purposes on Sept. 30, 1949, a “We’re going to do this half year or so after the cancellation of Green Lantern. Courtesy of Andy Yanchus. [Green Lantern TM & ©2003 DC Comics.] magazine, and remember, it was your idea and we’re going to be following through.” [laughs] He says, “My idea?” I said, “Of course it was your idea.” “Oh, no problem.” After a while, he got smart. He let me get away with it. ME: Now at this point, once you came over as editorial director, tell us your job description. What was the job of the editorial director, and ME: So, having decided on a new comic, you pick an editor out of what was Jack Liebowitz’s job, and who made the final decision to your staff. You tell him, “I want this book... here’s the basic concept.” launch a new comic, cancel a new comic, increase the frequency? DONENFELD: You got it. DONENFELD: We had two companies: Independent News and DC Comics. I ran DC Comics. Whoever we had as general manager of ME: And from then on, the input they would get from you would be, Independent News ran Independent News. It was Jack Adams for a “Hey, last issue didn’t sell so well. Next issue sold well.” You’d give while, and then it was Howard Chamberlain. And Jack was the boss of them input in terms of which issue sold better and what your feeling everything. Now, we are a very tight-knit group, so we all know what was and the reason for doing that. And what was not selling well, you everybody else is doing. When it came to DC Comics, after Whit might make suggestions on how you saw to improving sales. But it Ellsworth left, I ran it. Jack Liebowitz, at the time, determined what the almost always was the covers. You would not give a lot of suggestions print runs were going to be. But after a couple of years, he said, “No, about the interiors? you do it,” because I knew more about it than he did. And after a while, DONENFELD: No, that’s the editor’s job, not my job. he said, “I don’t want to sign these checks any more. You can sign all the editorial checks.” ME: Did you feel that the interiors were irrelevant to the sales, or a very minor part of the sales? So now I’m really in charge of signing all the checks and I’m creating all the print runs. I ran the entire company, DC Comics. I made all the DONENFELD: Minor. decisions on what we were going to do. And one thing I did not do was—I never told an editor what to do. They had their own way of ME: So the cover was 90% of it? producing comic magazines, which was fine with me. The only thing I DONENFELD: The name of the magazine would sell it. Superman, on ever said to them is, “You cannot use the word ‘flick.’” [laughs] You the newsstands, doesn’t matter what the cover is. It’s going to sell 8 or know what it is; F-L-I, when it’s too close—you can’t use the word 900,000 copies. Now, did anyone care what was inside or on the cover “flick.” with a magazine like Superman? No, they were after Superman. Another thing is, you can’t say, “Wow! Was that a lucky break?” A However, if it had a great cover, instead of selling 800,000, we sold ladder just happened to be there and the hero was able to climb the 900,000. What was on that cover? Whatever it was, let’s do it again. ladder. It has to be set up ahead of time, to show the ladder as there, and SCHWARTZ: And again and again and—[laughs] why it’s there. Nothing just happens luckily—didn’t work. I didn’t want that. ME: Okay. Now, the legend is that Jack Liebowitz was very conservative about adding new books; he was always afraid that a new The other thing I kept on our editors about is, the vocabulary in the comic would take sales away from an old comic and that DC should magazines was very, very good. And I went around the country, not flood the newsstands with more product. preaching to people at PTA meetings. I would lay out on the table all of my comic magazines. “Pick any one you want; Fox and the Crow, DONENFELD: No, wrong. We wanted as many magazines as we Mystery in Space, whatever.” And of course, I had read them ahead of possibly could and to keep our percentage of the total. If we wanted to time and underlined the vocabulary. And when these people saw the sell, let’s say, 7,000,000 copies, I had to produce 7,000,000 copies. readability, they were very much impressed, and the point of it was that

“I Ran the Entire Company”

“There’s A Lot of Myth Out There!”

For most of its career, even before it was totally absorbed into DC in 1948, M.C. Gaines’ All-American Comics line cross-advertised with DC (though not in the house ad at left from summer/fall of 1944), and its covers featured the circular DC symbol. However, for about eight months in 1944-45, the AA mags sported their own company sigil and no longer cross-advertised with DC, as per the house ad at right, prepared for winter 1944-45 issues. No one, not even Irwin D., has ever satisfactorily explained why the apparent “trial separation” between DC and AA before Gaines sold out to Harry Donenfeld and Jack Liebowitz circa 1945. Was it truly the “bad blood” between them that would lead to Gaines’ sale of his AA line—or was it a ploy, as some have suggested, to get greater wartime newsprint allotments by making certain that the U.S. government treated them as two companies, not one, and thus allowed them to use more paper? [©2003 DC Comics.]

ME: But simultaneously, Martin Goodman is putting out twice as many comics as you are at this point. DONENFELD: No. ME: Yes, he was. DONENFELD: No. ME: How many people agree with me that Martin was putting out more books at the time? [a show of hands agrees with Mark] All right. [laughs] DONENFELD: No, he wasn’t. What are you talking about? You’ve got that Ayer’s [Guide] report, which is absolutely ridiculous. It shows their magazines going from 4,000,000 to 11,000,000... 11,000,000 to 2,000,000. Come on! He’s out of his mind. ME: Maybe in number of books published? You see, when DC never went above about 32 or 35 comics, Martin Goodman, at one point, had over sixty different titles a month. DONENFELD: I have no knowledge of that.

“I Started a Magazine Called Showcase” ME: Okay, so why didn’t DC put out fifty comics? Why didn’t DC put out sixty comics? Why didn’t you hire three more editors? DONENFELD: That’s a good question. I don’t know. We had a very large editorial staff to begin with—well, I did hire Zena Brody with our romance magazines. So we did add people, but not to the extent that we were going crazy putting out something you don’t whether or not it’s going to sell. There’s a reason for everything we did, and if it went wrong, then we changed it. Why didn’t we put out more Superman magazines? Because for what? I started a magazine called Showcase. And the idea of that was, let’s try something. I don’t care what it is. We’d sit around a table and I’d go, “What are we going to do?” The title came from a television show called Showcase. They had a different show each time, so this might work. We tried things. We tried Lois Lane. The sales on the Showcase with Lois Lane were incredible. Okay, not a problem. “Mort Weisenger, put out a magazine called Lois Lane.” So we put out a magazine of Superman’s girl friend. With Showcase, we tried things and if it worked, we put out a title.

Irwin Donenfeld SCHWARTZ: But you’re not telling the story in complete detail. [laughs; to audience:] You must understand, when the magazine came out in January, we wouldn’t get reports till sometimes May or June. As a consequence, if we put out a magazine that sold poorly the first issue, it’s gonna sell worse the second issue. And the third. You’re going to lose a heck of a lot of money. So everyone said, “Let’s put out one issue. Wait 4-5 months and see what happens to it, and if it sold well, let’s do it again.” Well, the first three that we put out were bombs. The first one was “Fire Fighters,” one of the worst sales of all times. DONENFELD: One thing about these meetings was, we talked about everything. Sol Harrison, who was our production manager, wanted a book on Indians. So every time he came, he said, “Let’s have a book about Indians.” I said, “No.” We did something else. The next month, we had another meeting. “When are we going to do those Indians?” “No.” [laughs] Frustrated him like you can’t believe, but in the end, I never did put out a book about Indians. Somebody said, “Why don’t we try—?“ What was it—Flash? Green Lantern? SCHWARTZ: Came time for Showcase #4. During the editorial discussion, someone said, no one recalls who, “Why don’t we put out The Flash again?” And someone objected: “But The Flash failed. It flopped in 1950. Why put it out again?” And someone, we’ll never know who, said, “Well, wait a second. Flash folded in 1950. It is now 1955, and the first issue will be 1956. It will be a sixyear gap.” In those days, the average reader of a comic was eight to twelve years old. Therefore, if we had a magazine in ’56, they would have no knowledge of The Flash. So we looked around and said, “Who’s going to put out The Flash?” And they all looked at me because I was the editor of the Golden Age Flash, and I was given the assignment. I had to put it out in a heartbeat, because the deadline was upon us. I shared an office with Bob Kanigher, and we immediately plotted the story. And then we needed some artwork. I picked out Carmine, my favorite artist, and when he came in with the pencils, Joe Kubert was there. Joe had done “The Hawkman,” and he was now doing [= inking] “The Flash.” Four months later, reports came in. Oh, wow, wow. Let’s put out another one. We put out Showcase #8. That sold well. How about four months later, number #12, that sold well. Number 13, Irwin said, “That’s it. We’re putting out The Flash on a regular basis.” I prepared the issue. But what’re we going to call this? The first magazine was called Flash Comics, not The Flash. This is really a new magazine. Shall we call it #1? Nowadays, everyone would say, “Of course, call it #1!” Irwin said, “Absolutely not. We’re calling it #105,” continuing the Flash Comics numbering from before. And I said, “Why, Irwin?” Well, he said the average reader went to a

17 comic book stand, which had literally hundreds of comics, and he set up two comics side-by-side. One said “issue #1” and one said “issue #105.” Which is he going to buy? He’s not going to waste his hard-earned dime on a magazine he never heard aboutdoesn’t know if it’s any good. #105, that magazine is good, so that’s why we’re calling it 105. And, of course, that started—well, if The Flash is so good, maybe we oughta bring back Silver Age— DONENFELD: Green Lantern. SCHWARTZ: And, well, I had done “The Green Lantern.” I volunteered to do “Green Lantern.” I was given a job. I changed everything around, brought in Gil Kane — [NOTE: At this point, videotaper Mike Catron changes videotapes. When he starts filming again, Irwin Donenfeld is telling about being on a TV show with Jerry Lewis, star of a longrunning DC comic book.] On page 3, we depicted the all-important covers of Showcase #4 (Oct. ’56) featuring the debut of the Silver Age Flash; #9 (Aug. ’57) starring Lois Lane; and #22 (Sept. ’59) with the new Green Lantern—and we printed the cover of issue #1 (March ’56), featuring “Fire Fighters,” back in A/E #17! You can find all these stories except the first “GL” in The Essential Showcase 1956-59. That excellent 1992 DC trade paperback even prints the only partly fanciful Jack Schiff-written, Win Mortimer-drawn “Story behind Showcase” from the first issue, shown below. [©2003 DC Comics.]

“There’s A Lot of Myth Out There!”

“The Genius Was Jack Liebowitz” DONENFELD: —and Jerry said, “Okay, great.” So I was on TV that night with him and what he would do, he’d be yakkin’ away, like telling dirty things. And then when the time came, all the dirty stuff was never aired. [laughs] But I did meet Jerry Lewis.

Bob Beerbohm supplied a scan of the cover of The Adventures of Dean Martin and Jerry Lewis #28 (April 1956), which became The Adventures of Jerry Lewis with #41 (Nov. 1957). Art by Bob Oksner. Thanks to Bob Bailey for the artist ID. [©2003 the respective copyright holder.]

ME: And there had to come a day when somebody ran into the DC offices and said, “We’re selling Martin and Lewis comics. Martin and Lewis are breaking up. What are we going to do now?” And he said—?

DONENFELD: Good question. Probably they’d just get the best artists and the best writers. I don’t know what they did. SCHWARTZ: There were other factors involved, which is the problem of payment. When an artist or writer finished a story for the Jack Schiff or Mort Weisenger department, they filled out a voucher for the check. A week or two later, the artist or the writer would be paid. When a writer or an artist worked for me, I said, “When are you going to have the story done?” They said, “The following Monday.” I would have a check all ready for them, and they liked that, so they’d work for me, and they were always afraid to work for Mort. You see, when you’re a writer or an artist, and you need the money to keep on going, it was very unfair of Mort to have you wait and wait. So, as a consequence, I think I had the best writer in John Broome and artists like Carmine Infantino and Gil Kane. I always had the check ready. DONENFELD: And he had Curt Swan. ME: Mort had Curt Swan. SCHWARTZ: Mort Weisinger and Curt Swan would have terrible fights. DONENFELD: So one day, Curt Swan came in to me and he complained to me about what was happening and he needed a raise.

DONENFELD: I had a very easy choice. [laughs] Who was Dean Martin? All he can do is sing. Jerry Lewis is a funny guy.

ME: What was the impetus for Bob Hope and Dean Martin and Jerry Lewis comics? Whose idea was that? DONENFELD: Those ideas were mine, on the editorial end. The genius was Jack Liebowitz. I said to him one day, “Bob Hope is the biggest name around. We want to put out a Bob Hope comic book.” And he got it for me. I don’t know how he did it, but he got in touch with the people, Jack signed a contract, and we were doing Bob Hope. And the same thing with Martin and Lewis. I mean, I gave it to him, told him about what I wanted, and he got it. I don’t know how he got it... but we had these things. Where the real coup was—you know Roy Rogers’ wife, Dale Evans? I wanted to put out Dale Evans. Roy Rogers was with Dell. I said, “How are we going to get Dale Evans?” And we put out a very successful girls’ western magazine, Dale Evans. BB: You put out seventeen issues. ME: Was there a book in this period of time, as you look back, and, “How could we be so dumb as to put that thing out? It was the biggest flop we had?” DONENFELD: That was one of Julie Schwartz’s books. [laughs] SCHWARTZ: Wait a second, I’ll tell you the story. Irwin comes in to me and says, “Why don’t we put out a sports magazine?” at an editorial meeting. And they all agreed, “Okay, let’s try it.” Well, none of the editors knew anything about sports except me. So I put out a Brave and Bold called “Strange Sports Stories.” It sold terribly. We put it out again, it sold even worse. [laughs] It was an editorial decision that I’ll never understand. But we really were willing to try almost everything. ME: Let’s talk about the editorial staff up there. Did you feel your editors were enormously competitive with one another?

Not only did Roy Rogers’ wife/co-star have her own Dale Evans Comics from 1948-52 for 24 DC issues (not 17 as mentioned on the panel), while her “King of the Cowboys” hubby was riding Trigger over in Dell/Western mags, but their longtime Republic Pictures sidekick Gabby Hayes had his own comic for Fawcett at the time. It would’ve taken a cross-over between three major Golden Age companies just to get Roy, Dale, and Gabby together in the same comic! [©2003 the respective copyright holder.]

Irwin Donenfeld

“Mort had Curt Swan”—on “Superman” and “The Legion of Super-Heroes.” (Above:) The Superman daily newspaper strip for Dec. 9, 1958; script by Alvin Schwartz. (Right:) a 1996 Swan drawing of Lightning Lad, Saturn Girl, Superboy, and Cosmic Boy, repro’d from a photocopy of the original art, courtesy of Richard Martines. [©2003 DC Comics.]

Well, guess what, I gave him a raise. Years later, I met him at another thing and he saw me. [excitedly] “Irwin!” He wrapped his arms around me. He loved me because I got him the raise.

“Let’s Have a Meeting!” ME: The editors were real competitive. Well, we’ve always heard these stories about Mort Weisinger. DONENFELD: Anything you heard about Mort was true. [laughs] ME: Okay. Lording over the editorial meetings, putting down the other editors—bragging about himself— DONENFELD: No, no. Not at our meetings. I ran those meetings. That wasn’t true. SCHWARTZ: Oh, but there was an exception. It was the period where Marvel was doing exceptionally well, even overtaking us. So Irwin said, “Let’s have a meeting.” And each editor was supposed to read and analyze each other’s comic books and see what was right or wrong with it. Well, naturally, we all tore into each other’s editorial ways. DONENFELD: This is not where I wanted to go.

SCHWARTZ: And what we should have done is to read Marvel Comics and find out why they were doing so well and we were not. In hindsight, I never thought of doing it, either. DONENFELD: I knew the answer. The real answer was their covers. Sure, Marvel’s covers were absolutely beautiful. SCHWARTZ: I think you have to give Stan Lee credit for his graphic style of storytelling. DONENFELD: That, too. The only thing that sold a magazine is the covers. It starts with that, and their covers were exceptional. Which is why, later on in life, I got Carmine Infantino into the office and made him editorial director on covers. And he brought all our covers up closer and he did a hell of a job. SCHWARTZ: Let me tell you a story about how that happened. DONENFELD: Is this my thing or your thing? [laughs; audience applause]

Mort Weisinger (left) goes over some subtle points with fellow editors Bernie Breslauer (standing) and Jack Schiff—probably at Standard Magazines, where all three edited pulp magazines in the very early ’40s. Eventually the other two followed Mort to National/DC and became editors there, as well. Photo courtesy of Joe Desris.

SCHWARTZ: Irwin doesn’t recall—here’s what happened. Carmine came in to me. “Will you please invite me to the next editorial meeting?” I said, “Why?” He said, “I have something to discuss that I think will be of interest.” So I said to Irwin, “Is it okay if Carmine attends the next editorial meeting?” He said, “Fine.” Came the next editorial meeting, Irwin said, “Okay, Carmine. What’s the purpose of your being asked to come to the meeting?” Carmine said, “I don’t think the covers are doing you good, and that’s why you’re losing circulation. Now this month’s covers”—and he had a sample of six or eight covers on display—“Now, here’s how I would have done the covers.” And he brought out pencil sketches of the eight covers, and they were passed around from editor to editor. And everyone agreed that Carmine’s covers were better. And it was at that point, you decided we should have a Cover Editor and that’s how Carmine became the Cover Editor and eventually went up, up, up, up until he went down, down, down. [laughs]

“There’s A Lot of Myth Out There!” them ‘Go-Go Checks.’” SCHWARTZ: Because Irwin said, “Go, go, go,” right. DONENFELD: It was my idea, and I sat down with Sol Harrison and I showed him what a newsstand rack looked like. And the magazine was here and another one was here. You could barely see one for the other one. You could barely see what the cover was, so I said we had to do something. We have such a small area to attract people, so let’s do something that’s entirely different. And what we did was, we created this checkerboard across the top so that any time you looked at a newsstand rack, you knew which one was a DC comic, because we had a checkerboard, and nobody else had that and it was a very, very big help. It did help our sales, it helped our prestige, it helped everything. It was a great idea. [looks to heaven] Thank you. [laughs] ME: Why did you stop doing it? DONENFELD: I didn’t. ME: Okay, somebody stopped doing it. DONENFELD: After I left.

Despite the firestorm related to his leaving DC in 1976, Carmine Infantino was deservedly given his own page (yes, with Steven Petruccio cartoons) nearly a decade later, in Fifty Who Made DC Great. [©2003 DC Comics.]

“Irwin Said, ‘Go, Go, Go!’” ME: I’ll ask about three of these legends, all right? There’s a story that several artists have told at some point. [to Irwin Donenfeld] Sometimes it was you and sometimes it was Jack Liebowitz and sometimes it was your father that came into an editorial meeting once and said, “The secret of Marvel’s success is bad art.” How many people have heard this story over the years? Is it anything you overheard in reality—that someone in the DC offices was advancing the theory that Marvel’s books were successful because of the crudity of artwork—the kids felt the “bad art” was somehow on their level? DONENFELD: I have no memory of that, no. I don’t remember that. ME: All right, another story. The story is, this is another one that some people say is Jack Liebowitz, some say it’s you, somebody walks in— DONENFELD: It was me. [laughs] ME: You might want to hear this one first. The legend is, “The reason why Marvel’s been selling so well, better than ours, is that kids are getting confused on the newsstand. We should print checks on the top of the comics. They’ll make our books stand out on the newsstand. We’ll put these black-and-white checks on top of the comics and call

ME: All right, another story is—among the editors, there is an anecdote that I’ve been told by four or five hundred DC people over the years, and everybody has a different person or cast of characters. Everybody says they swear they were there. The story is that, one day, some editor was dangling a freelancer’s check in front of him, wouldn’t give it to him, and the freelancer got so mad he grabbed the editor and dangled him out the window. Does this ring a bell with you? DONENFELD: If it did, it was Julie. [laughs] Anybody would dangle him out the window. SCHWARTZ: The way I recall the story, there are two different versions. I’ll tell you both. I was going on vacation and Alex Toth, superior artist, had a check waiting for him. So when Alex brought in the story, he would get paid. Now I was on vacation. Now one version of this: I left the check with Robert Kanigher, who shared the same office with me. And Kanigher, for some reason, wouldn’t give him the check, so Alex threatened to throw Kanigher out the window. The other version was that it was Murray Boltinoff who was threatened with his life. I wasn’t there, so I can’t tell you either way, but that’s the story I heard.

It’s not every day that Alter Ego’s editor can verify a comic book “urban legend,” but here goes, in Roy’s own words: “One night in late ’65 or early ’66, during the regular Friday night poker game at comics dealer Phil Seuling’s Coney Island apartment, I asked fellow player Mike Esposito, DC inker, about something I was curious about, as Stan Lee’s assistant editor—why he and his penciler/partner Ross Andru had suddenly started drawing Wonder Woman in a pseudo-H.G. Peter style, harking back to the 1940s. Mike told me, with some incredulousness in his voice, that ‘they’—he didn’t elaborate on precisely who these DC powers-that-be were—had decided that the ‘secret’ of Marvel’s growing success was, and I quote him, ‘bad art.’ Hence the edict that Ross and Mike had to render the Amazon’s adventures in a style which was neither good pseudo-HGP nor good Andru & Esposito!” Of course, that’s not to say that then-publisher Irwin Donenfeld was the source of the “bad art” quote. That could simply have been writer/editor Bob Kanigher’s way of paraphrasing what he’d been told. Anyway, at right is the most HGP-like of the covers, Wonder Woman #162 (May ’66). All this, and Go-Go Checks, too! The ersatz “Golden Age” period began in WW #158 (Nov. ’65), and more or less “Peter’d” out by issues numbered in the late #160s. Thanks to longtime DC colorist Carl Gafford for the scans and the start-&-stop dates. [©2003 DC Comics.]

Irwin Donenfeld

AUDIENCE MEMBER: But through a window.

“Two More Urban Legends” ANOTHER IN AUDIENCE: I’d like to ask you about two more urban legends that I heard for many, many years. Either you or Jack Liebowitz, apparently, were responsible for two great successes for your competition. The first story goes that either you or Jack were playing golf with Martin Goodman and you told him about the success of Justice League. Martin Goodman went back to Stan Lee and said, “We need a group of super-heroes.” And thus was born The Fantastic Four. DONENFELD: I read that in one of the books. Never happened. AUDIENCE MEMBER: Here’s the second one: there was a card game that either you or Jack Liebowitz was at, and John Goldwater of Archie was there. And you folks were ribbing him, saying, “Look, we publish westerns and super-hero and war and romance and humor. You guys, all you do is publish Archie. You publish Archie’s Pals, Archie’s Gals, Big Archie, Little Archie,” and were making fun of him. And he said, “All right, I’ll show those guys.” And he went back and ordered his guys to create a book called Little Archie. DONENFELD: I doubt that completely. I really do, because he never was in our office. Jack Liebowitz said he didn’t think we ever saw him. You know, I really don’t know where these stories come from. I’ve been reading a lot of these books lately, and I’m reading things that are unbelievable. You know, it never happened. AUDIENCE MEMBER: Did you ever fraternize with the competition in any way? Did you meet at social functions, or anything like that? DONENFELD: Not in publishing. Now, distributing was another story. We had several national distributing companies, and, of course, we were competitors because we had many magazines, not just comic magazines. We had New American Library books, we had Mad magazine, we had Playboy, we had Family Circle, just to mention a The issue number, date, and other info have fallen off the original art for this Joe Kubert cover, but it’s obviously from the “Go-Go Checks” period in the late ’60s. Thanks to Edwin & Terry Murray, and to Eric Nolen-Weathington. [©2003 DC Comics.]

DONENFELD: I never heard the story. AUDIENCE MEMBER: About an hour ago, [1940s DC writer] Alvin Schwartz, downstairs, said it was [writer/artist] Don Cameron. ME: Okay. And I heard it was Al Plastino, and I heard it was different people. Mike Sekowsky swore he was there when it happened. Gil Kane swore up and down—probably the entire staff was there when it happened. [laughs] It was different editors— SCHWARTZ: I was on vacation. ME: Nobody ever claimed it was Julie. DONENFELD: I wasn’t there. I have no knowledge of that at all. AUDIENCE MEMBER: Alvin Schwartz’s story is that Don Cameron tried to push Mort Weisinger out a window, and he heard raised voices just before the event. Alvin thinks, before the shouting match, he heard Mort Weisinger shouting, “I don’t care if you can’t buy milk for your children.” [laughs] DONENFELD: Let’s talk about this out-the-window. If this happened in 575 Lexington, those windows are sealed. Nobody got thrown out of any window.

In 1967 “the National Comics Group” received a special Award of Merit from the Hobby Industry Association of America for its “outstanding promotion of hobbies through its cartoon series ‘Cap’s Hobby Hints.’” HIAA president (left) is shown making the presentation of Irwin Donenfeld, as “National’s executive vice president.” An HIAA press release said that some eighty “Cap’s Hobby Hints” features were drawn (and written?) by Henry Boltinoff between 1965-67. Photo courtesy of I.D.

“There’s A Lot of Myth Out There!”

couple of them, man. Great stories. We had two meetings a year in the circulation business. In the summer, we played golf together, and in the winter we had a big meeting and we all got drunk and we gambled. The next day, we were back at each other’s throats. But to answer that: but in publishing, no. I never saw anybody, I didn’t care about anybody, I did my own work. ME: Were there any gentlemen’s agreements between the publishers not to go over different subject matters and “we won’t publish westerns if you don’t publish teen comics”? DONENFELD: No. We knew better. ME: What about the horror comics? We all know about the problem with the Kefauver Commission, the testimonies and such. How was DC affected by all that banning of horror comics? What impact did it have on DC Comics while this was going on? DONENFELD: The answer to that was that we put out a page of—and I had a whole list of them and I didn’t bring it—of civic things that kids should think about. BB: Is that one of the things Jack Schiff started with his artists? DONENFELD: Yes, and I did one other one on Halloween and exercise. And we were rewarded by President Kennedy. He sent me a tiepin with the Seal of the President of the United States on it. And yes, it did affect us quite a bit. Whit Ellsworth went out of his way to do what he thought was right. He created these pages.

ME: When they were starting to have all these newspaper stories about the Senate hearings, did that affect your sales? Did it affect your distribution, or did you get scared that it might at some point? DONENFELD: No. We didn’t have a problem. ME: So the addition of the public service pages, and such, was just fromage? DONENFELD: Yes, absolutely.

“Martin Goodman Lost His Distribution” ME: Now this one’s just for me. The other mystery a lot of people have asked about is, why did Independent News take on distributing Martin Goodman’s comics in ’57? Martin Goodman lost his distribution— BB: Well, so did Bill [Gaines], too, at the same time. ME: Why distribute your competitor’s books like that? Why distribute Martin Goodman’s books? Did you have an idea why? DONENFELD: No, no. ME: Remember, they limited them to eight books. The theory was advanced that Liebowitz was worried about the newsstand being saturated. Liebowitz was worried that Goodman would find a distributor and put out too many comics again. And it was better to distribute him and limit him, contractually, to the number of books

Two of DC’s many “public service pages,” this pair circa 1950. The Boy Scouts one looks like the penciling of Dick Sprang. Is the “Superman” by Win Mortimerr? Wayen Boring? Al Plastino? [©2003 DC Comics.]

Irwin Donenfeld

than to allow him to produce what he can out there and flood the market with junk. Does that connect with anything of your understanding at all? [Donenfeld shakes his head] AUDIENCE MEMBER: In regards to past artists and writers, Arnold Drake and John Broome used to talk about possibly getting a union. For example, Bill Finger was always poor and always trying to survive. Don’t you think that, considering the many people who created many characters for DC, that it would have been decent of the company to offer benefits, retirement packages, to protect any artists or writers so retired people could survive? During the late ’60s was that great firing. You let go Wayne Boring, George Klein, George Papp. Given their contribution to the history of DC Comics, they created super stuff. I felt it was wrong. Though Batman #128 (Dec. 1960) was still probably selling quite well, with Sheldon Moldoff ghosting Bob Kane, by 1964 such DONENFELD: I read un-Batman-like situations had led to declining sales for the Caped Crusader... so Irwin Donenfeld made Julie Schwartz editor of somewhere about these guys the “Batman” titles. The resulting “New Look” for Batman debuted in Detective Comics #327 (May ’64), with script by John wanting to create a union. And Broome and art by Carmine Infantino & Joe Giella. The first 200 pages of the “New Look” can be seen in DC’s recent hardcover the story is that they came in to Dynamic Duo Archives, Vol. 1. [©2003 DC Comics.] me and I said no. It never happened. I have no recollection of anybody coming to me, saying they wanted a union. There’s another story that they went to Jack Liebowitz and he gave them a raise and that ended the whole thing. ME: Let’s take, for a moment here, the ’50s and early ’60s period. Let’s talk about a moment when you looked at the sales figures on Bill Finger is another problem. I didn’t know much about Bill Finger. Batman and Detective Comics and they were plunging. That’s when He worked in the dark with Bob Kane, and when Dad started “The you began to think, “We might have to cancel Batman.” Batman,” he only saw Bob Kane, and Bob Kane put his name on it. When Siegel and Shuster came in, it was Siegel and Shuster—both of DONENFELD: I don’t remember exactly. But we did have a time when them. Now, why it wasn’t “Kane and Finger,” I don’t know. That comic book sales really took a plunge. Not because of Frederic predates me. Wertham, because we had the comic book approval and everything else. That wasn’t it. It was television. There was no question about it. Sales of Now, I understand Bill Finger died a pauper. Let me put it this way: everybody’s comic magazines plunged drastically, and Batman seems to if I were there, he would not have died a pauper. [applause] I’ll give you have gotten it more than I expected it to. an example: Jerry Siegel. As you know, Siegel and Shuster sued us over “Superboy.” Not “Superman,” because we owned that, but they sued us ME: So one day, you’re looking and you’re going, “My God, Batman over “Superboy,” and there was a settlement and they got a big check. is not selling what it should be selling.” At that time, Jack Schiff was They got a lot of money, the two of them, which they immediately used editing the Batman titles. You decide to give it to this man over here, up. right? [points at Schwartz]

“We Might Have to Cancel Batman”

And so, years later, Jerry Siegel came up to Jack Liebowitz and he said, “I’m poor. I need work.” After all the things Jerry Siegel did to us, Jack Liebowitz said okay and sent him to me. I hired him. “Jerry, you’re going to work with Mort Weisinger.” He couldn’t write. Mort helped him with a whole bunch of things and he got checks all the time. We made sure that he had money. Joe Shuster was going blind and he needed an eye operation, and Dad paid for it. Shuster didn’t pay for it, Dad did. We were that close. If we knew what the problem was, we could solve it. I solved the problem for Swan. I could have solved any problem if I’d known it existed. And I didn’t know anything about what you’re talking about. Of course you know ours are freelancers. They like it that way.

DONENFELD: It’s true. SCHWARTZ: You called me into your office and explained the situation of Batman and said you’d like me to handle it. I objected because I didn’t know much about Batman. The strongest objection I had: if I did Batman and Detective Comics, I’d have to give up my two favorite magazines, Strange Adventures and Mystery in Space. But Irwin talked me into it, so I said, “One more deal. If I’m going to do Batman, I’m going to change things around the way I changed things around with Flash and Green Lantern and the Justice League.” And Irwin said, “Explain that a little more carefully.” I said, “Well, I’d like to change artists.” “What artists?” he said. I wanted to have Carmine Infantino, who was great: “I’m going to introduce a New Look, a new

“There’s A Lot of Myth Out There!” what do you remember? And when you come to a page, do you remember this? Remember this?” “Oh yeah, I remember that,” and created a report. And with that report, we were able to go to these manufacturers and toy companies and show them that kids were interested in a product and they remembered what they saw, if it was produced correctly. So that was a very important part of our plan.

concept.” And Irwin said, “Well, you can’t do that, because we have a contract with Bob Kane, to do so much work a year. But you can use Carmine Infantino every other issue.” That began the New Look in 1964. But strangely enough, the cover was identically on the 25th anniversary of “Batman.” But that’s marked by a yellow circle around Batman, introducing the New Look, and it was eventually— fortunately, the one thing I did was to bring back the villains that Jack Schiff had neglected. DONENFELD: Oh yeah. That’s good. ME: Can you give us another example of a time when a book was dying and you said, “We’ve got to change this. I’ve got to save this book”? DONENFELD: Well, either of you are talking fifty years ago. I don’t remember. ME: That’s what you’re here for. [laughs] DONENFELD: I don’t remember what I had for breakfast. ME: Did you read the comics? Did you read all of them? DONENFELD: No. ME: Did you read any of them? DONENFELD: From time to time.

When he got too busy as editorial director, Carmine Infantino had to quit drawing The Flash; but in 1988 he penciled a new version of the origin of his Scarlet Speedster for Secret Origins Annual #2. Repro’d from photocopies of the autographed original Infantino/Anderson art, courtesy of some (sadly) forgotten soul whom we owe a free copy of this issue of A/E! [©2003 DC Comics.]

ME: Was there any comic DC published that you thought, “Boy, what a good comic”? DONENFELD: Sugar and Spike. [applause] I thought that was the best book we ever put out. For a while, it sold very well and then it didn’t and then I had to kill it. But I loved that concept. Larry Nadel was the editor. ME: I don’t think you did kill Sugar and Spike. I think you left before it ended.

“There’s a Myth about How My Father Died” BB: Well, just one thing here. Can you explain what the Starch Report was? DONENFELD: Advertising. In the early days there was the Daisy Air Rifle and a whole bunch of really junky stuff. And my father decided, I’m going to go out there and try to get some good advertisers. I wanted toy companies, but in order to do that, we had to hire a company called Starch, and they did the Starch Report. What they did was, they took a copy of Adventure Comics and showed it to forty or fifty children in all sections of the country, and they asked them, “After you read the book,

The next part of our plan was a man by the name of Mac Culver, who worked for our advertising agency. He and I visited all the big toy companies in the country. And I met with these people because they wanted to meet with the boss. They didn’t want to meet with some advertising nut. And I told them what we were doing and I said, “I know that your big sales are in December for Christmas. But maybe you’re missing out on something. One-twelfth of all the kids in the country are going to have a birthday this month. Onetwelfth of them, every month. And the only way you can get them inexpensively is through my comic books.” And we showed them the reports and we showed them our—you remember we had the A.B.C. for our circulation? Well, we showed them what we were doing and they agreed. And that’s how I got Aurora and some of these other toy companies. ME: There are questions about

your family selling off the company... DONENFELD: [looks at a paper Beerbohm is holding] Yeah, I read there’s a myth about how my father died. He died on a street somewhere on whatever the hell it was. Not true. My father died; he was a good drinker. Yeah, he said one time, when you wake up in the morning, if you don’t drink, that’s as good as you’re going to feel all day. [laughs] At any rate, he was quite drunk that night and he was talking on the phone to a friend of his and then he passed out—and he hit his head on the television set, and smashed his head. Somehow, he saved the strength he had, he crawled and went into bed and he was found there the next morning by his children. He was unconscious. Finally, they got him into the hospital and there were no marks on him; we had no idea what had happened to him. Eventually, they took a brain scan and they found a tiny little crack here [indicates a spot right above his left ear] which caused massive damage here [indicates the right side of his skull]. They operated on his skull, cleaned it all out, and put it back together again, and he was in a coma for about two or three weeks. When he came out of the coma, he was fine in every way except one: he had no memory. So when he talked, he didn’t know what he was saying because he didn’t remember what he’d said just a moment ago.

Irwin Donenfeld

SCHWARTZ: He was talking about the 1923 baseball Giants, I recall. Kept talking about them. DONENFELD: You know, he couldn’t talk about anything, Julie, he really couldn’t. But one thing was amazing: he came out to my house on Long Island [in 1962], and on the porch were two children, both boys, both about six years old. And he went right to my son and gave him a great big kiss and didn’t recognize the other child. How he did that, I have no idea. He did recognize me from time to time. And he recognized my sister from time to time. And then, slowly but surely, he just got tired and he passed away. I watched him die. It wasn’t great. BB: He lingered on about three years, till 1965? DONENFELD: Yeah, it seemed a lot like several years. And what did he die of, I don’t know. He just died or he got tired because he had no memory.

“His Reputation... Was Not Completely Savory” [At this point one audience member asks about the reasons for using the “#1” designation to begin books like Green Lantern and Justice League of America, and there is sparring back and forth. That same audience member then continues:] AUDIENCE MEMBER: Second question: when I was reading comics in the ’60, there was a group called American Comics Group, ACG. And when I’d look at their Statement of Ownership, I would see a lot of the same names as from DC Comics. Was there any connection through either family or corporately between ACG and DC? DONENFELD: Of course. [laughs] ACG was run by a man named Ben Sanger, and his partner was a man named Fred Eiger. Fred Eiger was my brother-in-law. When Fred married my sister, my dad put him into business. He knew nothing about comic magazines. Ben Sanger did, so that’s how that all started. And who owned it? Of course, Dad owned it. He put up all the money. AUDIENCE MEMBER: Why do you think the comic business can’t sell anywhere near the number of comics that you sold at the time? DONENFELD: Very simple... newsstands. I live in the city of Westport, Connecticut, with 25,000 people. There are many newsstands that sell magazines, and not one of them sells comic books. When I was there, it couldn’t happen. I had a local man. He would come in, he would put in a rack, and we would sell comics. The business is different today. Today, the magazine publishers, whatever they publish, they sell out and that’s it. They’re not returnable. In our day, anything that they that didn’t sell, they didn’t pay for. So returns were very important, and the percentage of sale was very important. Today, the magazines on the newsstands are returnable. The comic magazines are not. They’re in a separate category altogether now. AUDIENCE MEMBER: At DC’s heyday, when you were the strongest, I heard stories that you were 80% of the market. Is that accurate? DONENFELD: No, 35% at one time. 30, 35. I wish we were at eighty. Oh, boy. [laughs] MIKE CATRON: I had some conversations with Jack Liebowitz some years ago, and he told me that when the companies went public—when they went to get financing to go public—that your father was essentially forced to resign because he had a bad reputation. DONENFELD: That’s true. It was known in the finance industry about Dad’s connection with [Frank] Costello and people like that, and judges, and so on. And so his reputation, to them, was not particularly savory.

During World War II, DC issues occasionally carried ads for Prize Publications’ Prize Comics with young super-heroes Yank & Doodle, leading to later speculation that there was some cross-ownership there between Prize and DC. And, at this 2001 panel, Irwin D. confirms cross-ownership of the American Comic Group—whose quite funny Archie-style comic The Kilroys was advertised in 1947 DC mags, as per above. [©2003 the respective copyright holder.]

Maybe they were also thinking about the magazines he had published in the ’30s, I don’t know. But Jack and Dad put this thing out, and Dad said, “Okay, I’m going to resign and I’m still going to be on the Board of Directors and everything else.” So basically, that was true. BB: That brings up the name Herbie Siegel. SCHWARTZ: Uh-oh. [laughs] DONENFELD: Herbie Siegel was one of the nicest people I ever met. And the story is—and I wasn’t there so I can’t swear by it—that in New York City, there was a drive on pornographic magazines, and they considered Dad’s magazines pornographic. And the editor was the one who took the fall and went to jail. And the story is that Dad said to him, “When you get out, you have a job for life.” And guess what? He had a job for life. He was there in the office all the time. We gave him work to do but he was there forever. SCHWARTZ: He would come around to the editors. He said, “If you don’t have your feet on your desk, you’re not working.” [laughs] He was a great kidder. DONENFELD: But that was Herbie Siegel; he was there all the time, he was there for me, he was there for Dad. He helped out in every way he could. SCHWARTZ: And there was a time your dad sneezed and Herbie Siegel, down the hall, came running down and put his head in

“There’s A Lot of Myth Out There!” meeting all of these people and becoming friendly with all of the wholesalers; that’s how he got started. When I came into the business, what I did, I went all around the country and I made myself friendly with their sons, so there was a second-generation thing in all the industry. And I was the ringleader, quite frankly, and so I spent a lot of time with these people. I went hunting with them, whatever. I did a lot of hunting in those days. My second wife said, “I could never marry you. You kill animals.” Well, she married me anyway. [laughs] So did the third one. [laughs] [An audience member with an English accent asks about DC’s decision to start shipping its comics to the United Kingdom circa 1959.]

The powers-that-were at Independent News. (L. to r.:) Herb Siegel, Harry Donenfeld, Irwin Donenfeld, Paul Sampliner, Harold Chamberlain, Jack Liebowitz, and Ben Goldberg. Photo courtesy of I.D.

Harry’s office and said, “Geshundeidt, Harry.” [laughs] ME: The time that he allegedly had to go to jail for pornography would have been pre-Detective Comics #1? This is for Spicy Detective pulp? DONENFELD: Oh yes, this would have been the early ’30s. If the story is true. Somebody wrote it up, so now everybody believes it. It could be. Anyway, Herbie Siegel had a job for life. He did a hell of a job.

“I’m Going to Kill Him!” AUDIENCE MEMBER: I’d like to hear a little more about the idea that if you knew there was a problem, you could fix it. You described the situation with Curt Swan, for example. Nowadays, you hear an awful lot of the creators say they had problems with Mort Weisinger. Had you heard much of those sort of stories back then? And if so, did you ever take any—?

DONENFELD: Sol Harrison put together packages and Carroll Rheinstrom brought them all into Europe. When I got into these various countries, England wasn’t the problem. You know, they spoke our language, more or less.

AUDIENCE MEMBER: You spoke our language, more or less. [laughs] DONENFELD: That’s right. When I went to France, they were supposed to change everything into French, but they had all the artwork Sol Harrison put together for them.

“It Was Not a Nine-to-five Job” AUDIENCE MEMBER: I’m very curious as to the time that you spent at work. Was it a normal nine-to-five job where you came home every day? And what were the sacrifices that you had to make prior to having a family, as far as your personal life?

DONENFELD: I never took any action. I knew Mort was being very difficult. The story is, and I don’t know if it’s true, a writer would come in to Mort Weisinger and say, “I have an idea for Superman. We’re going to have him do this, that, and the other thing.” And Mort said, “No, that’s no good,” and then he gave him another story to do. The next guy would come in with his idea, and Mort would say, “No, that’s not a good one,” and give the idea that the first guy had told him. He got away with that for a while, until the other writers began to see their work when it was published. They saw what he was doing, if that’s true. SCHWARTZ: One story, which is probably not true and I hope it wasn’t: Jerry Siegel and Mort would have terrible fights and Jerry would come in to me and say, “Someday, I’m going to kill that son of a gun. I’m going to kill him!” On one occasion, Mort heard about this, so when Siegel came up to work out a story, he had a spy at the elevator to make sure Jerry Siegel wasn’t carrying in a violin case. [laughs] Probably not true. ME: Probably not true, folks. Do we believe this? I don’t think so. AUDIENCE MEMBER: [to Donenfeld] Did you ever really hear anything like that? DONENFELD: No, let me explain this. Number one, while I was there, I wasn’t there as much as I might have been, because I also worked for Independent News Company and I spent a lot of time on the road. I mean, trips all over the country. I’ve been in every major city in the country, working. My father went around the country,

Carroll or Carol? Fifty Who Made DC Great says “Carroll,” while Irwin D. told us the spelling was “Carol.” Either way, Mr. Rheinstrom spent half a century handling DC’s international publishing rights before he retired in 1983. No wonder he got a page! Cartoons by Steven Petruccio. [©2003 DC Comics.]

Irwin Donenfeld

DONENFELD: Basically, it was not a nine-to-five job. My wives were—well, not the first one—she was very upset with everything that I did, and that’s why she divorced me. [laughs] Now, my second wife understood, so that wasn’t a problem. Many times, though, when I was in the office, I’d be working away at a quarter to five, my phone would ring, and it would be Jack Liebowitz on the phone. [imitating Liebowitz] “Come into my office.” And we’d play gin with Harold Chamberlain and Ben Goldberg for an hour or so. And I worked nights to make up for all the time I was on the road. AUDIENCE MEMBER: Back during the Superman TV show, there used to be a card at the end that said Superman appeared every month in Action Comics. I was wondering if that helped sales, and if you ever did any other kind of advertising outside? DONENFELD: Oh, I think so, yeah. We did a lot of advertising. When the Superman show was on Broadway, I advertised that and for that, I got tickets all the time to see—well, I saw Superman quite often. ME: I looked up the Superman Broadway show. It lost $600,000, and had one backer. Do you know who that backer was? DONENFELD: Hal Prince was the producer, and I don’t think it lost $600,000. I don’t know what it was, it didn’t make a lot of money, and if it stayed on stage for another two months, then it would have had a lot of longevity and also there would have been a movie of it. So that didn’t work out. The show is still on the stage all over the country in many areas. In fact, they run it in upper Connecticut in one of our theaters up there. And I went to see it and it was great. I thought it was still good.

“I Can’t Take This Any More” ME: We’re running out of time. I want to cover Irwin’s last days at DC, but we have to make way for a masquerade, so... DONENFELD: They’ll wait! [laughs] ME: One day, the Donenfeld family finally decides to start selling out— DONENFELD: No. ME: No. Okay, tell us how this happened.

This photo was probably taken the day National Periodical Publications (NPP) was first listed on the New York Stock Exchange in 1961. Identified are Harold Chamberlain (2nd in row from left), Paul Sampliner (next to Chamberlain), Jack Liebowitz (holding ticker tape), and Irwin Donenfeld (last person on right facing camera). No wonder Irwin’s smiling! Photo courtesy of I.D.

important to put in a funeral parlor in this section of Brooklyn. And this is what I’m going to do? No way. So I’m very upset with all of that, and I was in the middle of a divorce and everything is going bad for me. And then all of a sudden these Kinney people said that we’re moving. And in 1969 they moved the company from 575 to somewhere on Third Avenue, and I said, “I’m not going.” I went in to Jack and said, “Uncle Jack, I can’t take this any more. I’ve got to leave.” And he begged me not to, because he needed me, and I said, “No, I’m sorry. I have to go.” And so I just walked out. I left everything there. I didn’t take all the comic books I collected. My Action #1 and Superman #1. I didn’t take any of them. I just left and I never moved into that new building, and that’s what happened. ME: Did you want to keep on with the integration of companies in, essentially, the same capacity?

DONENFELD: Jack Liebowitz got involved with the financial community and decided we can go public. So when we went public [circa 1961], we were now regularly traded on the American Exchange. Eventually, we were on the big board and I had tiepins and everything from then, and I still have it. So now we’re making a lot of money and we’re doing very, very well, and Jack had the idea of merging with other companies so that his stock would be much more valuable.

DONENFELD: Not only that, but in the decision-making of the whole company. Now, we were going to do this, we were going to do that, and I wasn’t involved. So these promises they made to me didn’t come true. They wanted me to stay, you know.

And he got together with Steve Ross. I remember how that happened. They got together and they decided to merge our company with— Kinney was the name of the other company. And I had gone to school with Steve Ross—Kinney was in the garage business, and he also had a funeral parlor division. So that was Kinney Company, and we merged with them. At that point, my sister and I were the major stockholders in the company and we had more stock together than anybody else.

BB: Well, they lied to you.

BB: But Jack was Trustee. DONENFELD: That doesn’t matter. No, we had the stock. And so we merged with Kinney and Steve Ross. In order to make the merger, they made me all kinds of promises of what I would be in this new company. And none of those promises came to be. Let me give you an example. I was on a Junior Board. Instead of a regular Board, they created some kind of a Junior Board, and at my first meeting we sat down and we decided why it was necessary and

ME: So you, in effect, were squeezed out of your own company. DONENFELD: Absolutely, yeah.

DONENFELD: Yeah, yeah. ME: Did they ever come back to you after that? Did you hear from them again? Any contact? I mean, you had a big share in the company. DONENFELD: Yeah, yeah. And I was still friendly with Steve Ross, more or less. He and I had gone to a school called Columbia Grammar on 83rd Street near South Park, and we started up all kinds of different programs for them, together. It was Steve and I. Yeah, he had a great mind and he knew how to raise money and do all these things. When I was at Columbia Grammar, I was an athlete. I won letters in football and basketball in high school. And Steve Ross, when I was a senior, he was a freshman and he used to carry my stuff around. [laughs]

“There’s A Lot of Myth Out There!” ME: How were the covers on that? [laughs] DONENFELD: I didn’t have any dinosaurs on those. [laughs] But the covers were artwork, and they were absolutely beautiful. It just didn’t catch on. The timing was wrong. At the particular time when I started this magazine, sales on boats plummeted drastically, in my own marina, as well. I used to sell sixty, eighty boats a year. I was down to twenty. ME: When you look back at your time in the comic book business, I’m sure you’re very proud, and justifiably so, of the incredible amount of comic books you’ve sold over the years. And the fact that you have probably provided work for a rather staggering number of people for a long time. What else, when you look back at those days, was pleasurable about you being in that field? What gave you pride beyond the sheer numbers? DONENFELD: Well, I was a person. I was a very important person. I have a quick story. We had our local man in St. Louis. I spent a lot of time going back and forth to St. Louis, because our printing plant, World Color Press, was headquartered near there [in Sparta, Illinois]. We hired a young local man, and he went out and bought himself an Oldsmobile and he had the car for about a week and was involved in a horrible accident and he destroyed the car. Luckily, he was able to walk away from it, and the insurance company bought him another one; and about two weeks later, he demolished that one. The insurance company gave him another car. When I flew into St. Louis and he meets me, he says to me, “Where do you want me to drive you?” I said, “You’re going to drive me and you destroyed two cars? I’m driving.” So I get into the front seat of the car. Now in those days, they didn’t have bucket seats. It was a bench seat and it was covered by a hard plastic—well, it was before your time—and I reached down to the side, and I pulled the seat forward. He said, “What did you just do?” I said, “I moved the seat forward.” He said, “Nobody ever told me that!” “Wait a minute. You mean to tell me you were steering way out here, and when you went around the turn, you lost control because you slid on it and destroyed the car?” “That’s what happened to me!” [laughs] Memories like that.

Just in case you thought there was a chance in hell we were gonna let a photo taken at the Stock Exchange be our last shot...! The DC heroes and concepts are still going strong after nearly seventy years—so please forgive Ye Editor for indulging himself by closing with a page from his and artist Michael Lark’s 1998 prestige-format Elseworlds book Superman: The War of the Worlds, as the just-off-the-farm Man of Steel battles H.G. Wells’ Martians in 1938 America. And, at right, a recent convention sketch by Michael. Both pieces repro’d from photocopies of the original art, courtesy of the artist and collector Ed Zeno. [Sketch ©2003 Michael Lark; page ©2003 DC Comics; Superman TM & ©2003 DC Comics.]

ME: What did you do after you retired from the company? DONENFELD: By that time, I had two other companies I was involved with. One was up in a marina in Westport; the other was a company that created crash cushions to prevent accidents from being deadly. Crash cushions are still on the highway. You can see them in places where there’s a fork in the road that’s protected by our crash cushions. I got involved, really, in that one. In fact, I got involved in the marina, which I really liked, and I sold out to my partner in another business. We’ve been friends ever since. ME: Do you miss being in publishing? Do you ever have a desire to go back to it? DONENFELD: Yes. I once put out a magazine called Row Row Row.

SCHWARTZ: I do have one final question. This is the first comic book convention you’ve ever attended. What do you think of it? DONENFELD: Oh, I love it. [applause] The thing that I really love about it is you people out there, that you knew something about what I did and you were interested and you came in here to hear what all we had to say. Thank you very, very much. [applause] ME: First of all, let's thank Julius Schwartz for being here. [applause] Let's thank Robert Beerbohm for bringing Irwin here. [applause] And, for sharing with us an incredible life and for all the fine work he did in bringing us DC comics all these years, let us thank Mr. Irwin Donenfeld. [applause] Thank you all. [Robert Beerbohm has recorded several more hours of interviews with Irwin Donenfeld about his years as publisher of DC Comics, which will appear in a near-future issue of Alter Ego.]

Jerry Siegel, Fred Allen, & Harry Donenfeld

“UP IN THE SKY! LOOK!” JERRY SIEGEL, FRED ALLEN, & HARRY DONENFELD Celebrate Superman–––in 1940! Transcribed by Jon B. Knutson [INTRODUCTORY NOTE: In February 2000 Ye Editor was the happy recipient of an audiocassette tape sent by alert A/E reader Michael (“Cap’n Mike”) Leach. The tape’s ultimate origins lay in 1940—the year I was born. Listening to it, I was fascinated to see it was actually a recording within a recording, and that it featured the voices of three people interesting to me: Jerry Siegel, writer/co-creator of Superman; Harry Donenfeld, one of the original publishers of DC Comics (and of course father of Irwin Donenfeld, whose interview immediately precedes this piece); and Fred Allen, popular and acerbic radio comedian of the ’30s and ’40s, perhaps best remembered today for his memorable on-air “feud” with Jack Benny. [As Mike Leach noted in a follow-up e-mail: “This is the complete recording, probably done on a 78 r.p.m. record made by Donenfeld for presentation at the Independent News Company meeting”—and see our previous piece for the relationship between DC Comics and Independent. He went on: “It opens and closes with [John Philip Sousa’s march] ‘The Stars and Stripes Forever.’ The recording itself must be from 1940. At the promo start, they state that the Superman radio show is on three times a week. The show started February 12, 1940. They also announce that the Superman cartoons will start [in theatres] in January 1941. So this recording is from sometime between those two dates.

The first two sentences in the standard opening to the Adventures of Superman radio series of the 1940s have been reversed in the recording made by publisher Harry Donenfeld—but that opening would nonetheless go on to become and remain one of the most famous dialogue exchanges of all time. This early Superman art by Joe Shuster and (no doubt) his studio is courtesy of Roger Caldwell. [©2003 DC Comics.]

[He continues: “The Fred Allen piece is a clip from one of the old Fred Allen [radio] shows of 1939, as Jerry states he is 25 years old. The name of the show changed in October 1939 from Town Hall Tonight to The Fred Allen Show, but what the hell, it was still Fred Allen, so let’s not nitpick. The woman Fred Allen speaks to is Portland Hoffa, his wife. At the time of the recording, Donenfeld expected two [particular] people to attend the Independent News meeting, as he mentions them on the record: Curly Sanderville and Ruth Wiener (sp?). Final conclusion of the most historical importance: Donenfeld was not a very good actor.” [Of course, acting was not the profession of either Harry Donenfeld or Jerry Siegel—they were, respectively, the publisher and the scripter/co-creator of “Superman,” which had taken popular culture by storm over the previous year or so... and that, naturally, is the item actually of “most historical importance” about what is transcribed below. It has obviously been made from a recording of Harry Donenfeld first playing a recorded sequence from a Fred Allen radio program on which Jerry Siegel had guest-starred (and what comic book person do you recall appearing on radio or TV between Siegel and Stan Lee?)... after which Donenfeld does a hokey but fun shtick with an actor playing Superman—who needn’t have dressed for the part, since the Independent News crowd wasn’t going to see either him or the publisher. Donenfeld’s purpose, of course, was to show how popular “Superman” was becoming—with his writer trading jokes on radio with a top-rated comedian. And now, with due thanks to Cap’n Mike—on with the show—probably the first time it has ever been reproduced in print in the 63 years of its existence! —Roy.]

“Up In The Sky! Look!”

Superman’s origin, originally related by Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster, was retold in Secret Origins #1 (April 1986) by writer/editor Roy Thomas and penciler Wayne Boring (perhaps the second person to draw “Superman”), with inking/embellishing by Jerry Ordway. At left is the Ordway-inked, printed version of the splash page— reprinted from a photocopy of the original art and minus all copy; at right is the very same drawing inked by Boring himself and sold to Roy (and, of course, used as our color cover). On the published art, Jerry (at Roy’s behest) redrew the “S”-symbol as the late, lamented Earth-Two version, while R.T. asked Boring to ink the original pencils just as he would have done it back in the ’50s. Thanks to Roger Caldwell for the photocopy of the Boring/Ordway rendition. [©2003 DC Comics.]

[Music intro]

[Music ends]

ANNOUNCER: Presenting America’s #1 comic strip character!

ANNOUNCER: Young America waits anxiously for each new issue of Action Comics and Superman to hit the newsstand!

[Sound effects] MAN: Up in the sky! Look!

BOY: Hey, listen! A new Action Comics has come out, and boy, has it got a swell adventure of “Superman” in it!

WOMAN: It’s a bird!

[Sound of cheering]

MAN: It’s a plane!

ANNOUNCER: Parents approve of Superman because he makes no use of guns or other weapons, but fights a never-ending battle against crime and oppression. His motto: strength, courage, justice! Over 100,000 boys and girls in the United States and Canada are members of the Supermen of America, a club dedicated to Americanism! One mother says:

MAN: It’s Superman! [Wind sound effects... Sousa music: “Stars and Stripes Forever”] ANNOUNCER: Yes, it’s Superman! Young America’s stalwart idol, whose astounding exploits are responsible for the unprecedented monthly sales of 800,000 copies of Action Comics magazine! Hailed from Maine to California as the hero of the hour, Superman appears in 248 daily and Sunday newspapers! He’s on the air three times a week— has been licensed to manufacturers of dolls, games, playsuits, raincoats, jigsaw puzzles, chewing gum, candy, balloons, and a host of other products—and, beginning in January 1941, will appear in a series of Paramount animated cartoons to be released monthly in 4000 motion pictures theatres throughout the United States!

MOTHER: My boy is eight, and can’t seem to get enough of Superman. I should like to thank the publishers of Action Comics magazine for including a health page in every issue. Billy has been eating his cereal and drinking his milk regularly since Superman told him to do so. ANNOUNCER: And finally, recognition for Superman from some of the most famous radio programs on the air: Bob Hope! Eddie Cantor! Kay Kyser! And last, but far from least, the inimitable Fred Allen! Listen:

Jerry Siegel, Fred Allen, & Harry Donenfeld

ALLEN: Well, they laughed at Fulton with his steamboats, you know. [laughter] I guess, around your home, “Superman” was known as “Siegel’s folly.” [laughter] Tell me, where did your strip first appear? SIEGEL: In May of 1938, “Superman” came out in a magazine called Action Comics. ALLEN: Was he well-received? SIEGEL: The strip attracted so much attention that the publishers decided to give “Superman” his own magazine. ALLEN: And his popularity increased, then, by leaps and bounds? SIEGEL: Yes, Fred. Today, Superman is in 218 newspapers, reaching twenty million people. He’s in magazines, on the radio, and now he is going to appear in Paramount shorts. ALLEN: Well, who, just who, is Superman supposed to be, Mr. Siegel? He isn’t old Frank Merriwell with a dynamo in his union suit, is he? [laughter] SIEGEL: No, Fred. Superman is a super-being who came from the planet Krypton. He uses his tremendous powers to fight evil and injustice. ALLEN: He can do about anything, can’t he? SIEGEL: He can run faster than a bullet, for example. He can lift an ocean liner out of the water, and he can even stop a train with his bare hands. Fred Allen and his wife Portland Hoffa, in 1932.

ALLEN: Can he open a Pullman window? [laughter]

[Fanfare]

SIEGEL: Easily, Fred.

FRED ALLEN: Who is the most popular comic strip character in the newspapers today?

ALLEN: What a man! I noticed that Superman is always benefiting humanity.

PORTLAND ALLEN: I give up.

SIEGEL: Yes, Fred. He saves people from floods, stops wars, and is always breaking up crime rings.

ALLEN: It’s Superman. P.A.: You mean our guest tonight is Superman? ALLEN: No, not Superman. Our guest tonight is the man who originated Superman. He has written all of Superman’s exploits since this idol of millions made his first public appearance. He’s Mr. Jerry Siegel. Good evening, Mr. Siegel. JERRY SIEGEL: Good evening, Fred.

ALLEN: Well, fortunately, Superman only exists in your imagination, Mr. Siegel. If he stamped out all of our crime, J. Edgar Hoover would be reduced to playing bits on Gang Busters! [laughter] Tell me, how far ahead do you have to write your scripts? SIEGEL: I usually keep three months in advance. ALLEN: Oh, so you’re afraid of your syndicated Frankenstein?

ALLEN: So you are the man behind Superman, Mr. Siegel. SIEGEL: No, I’m just one of the men, Fred. I write the situations and the dialogue, and the strip is drawn by my collaborator, Joe Shuster. ALLEN: Well, you seem rather young to be the instigator of this highly successful feature, Mr. Siegel. How old are you? SIEGEL: Twenty-five. ALLEN: And how long have you and Mr. Shuster been working on your high-voltage Robin Hood? [audience laughter] SIEGEL: We started about eight years ago, but “Superman” has been in print only the past two years. ALLEN: What caused the delay? Cirrhosis of the batteries? [laughter] SIEGEL: No, Fred. It took us six years to sell “Superman.” ALLEN: Uh-huh. SIEGEL: He was turned down by almost every comic editor in the country.

Jerry Siegel circa 1940.

“Up In The Sky! Look!”

SIEGEL: No, it’s Mr. Ellsworth, the editor, and my wife. They get after me. ALLEN: They do, eh? Why don’t you get Superman after them? [laughter] Well, it must be a wonderful feeling, Mr. Siegel: twenty million people waiting with bated breath to see if Superman is going to pull out the Holland Tunnel and blow the Perisphere through it for a spitball.... [laughter] And you are the onus, Mr. Holland. Thank you a lot. [laughter] Every time we plug the tunnel, Mr. Holland claps. It’s very nice of you. You are the only man in America who knows what’s going to happen. SIEGEL: I don’t feel any different, Fred. ALLEN: Oh, you’re just being modest, Mr. Siegel. After all, you dominate a muscular marvel with a dual personality. When Superman isn’t Superman, he’s merely disguised as a reporter, isn’t he? SIEGEL: Yes, he’s Clark Kent, a meek little chap with glasses. ALLEN: When Superman has to perform a miracle, he switches to that Superman harness? SIEGEL: Yes. He wears athletic tights and a long cloak. ALLEN: Well, what I can’t figure out is this, Mr. Siegel: now, how does he change his clothes so fast? SIEGEL: Well, after all, he’s Superman, Fred. [laughter] ALLEN: Nobody can get into that long underwear ensemble in less than five minutes! Now, how does Superman do it? SIEGEL: Confidentially, Fred, he wears his outfit under his business suit. ALLEN: Oh, when he’s Clark Kent, he has those

streamlined Beau Britches on underneath, is that it? [laughter] SIEGEL: Right. He’s always ready for action. ALLEN: Well, if he wears woolen underwear all the year ’round, he sure gets action! [laughter] Thank you a lot, Mr. Siegel. I’ve certainly enjoyed this opportunity to get the lowdown on Superman. SIEGEL: It’s always a pleasure to talk about my protégé, Fred. ALLEN: Say, confidentially, if your jumbo Peter Pan can use a part-time job, I have a little chore coming up around the first of the year. Superman is good at lifting things, isn’t he? SIEGEL: Yes, Fred. Do you want him to pick up something? ALLEN: Yes. My option. [laughter] SIEGEL: I’m afraid that’s the one thing even Superman can’t do. ALLEN: I get it. SIEGEL: Good night, Fred. ALLEN: Good night, and thank you, Mr. Jerry Siegel. [Fanfare music] ANNOUNCER: And now, it gives me great pleasure to present to this convention, the man who can leap tall buildings at a single bound—race a high-powered bullet to its target—bend steel in his bare hands! Superman, who walks around among ordinary mortals disguised as mild-mannered Clark Kent! [Fanfare] And here he is—Clark Kent! CLARK KENT: Hello, everybody! I just want you to know that I consider it a rare privilege to say a few words of greeting to the members of the Independent Magazine Wholesalers Association of the South. But I should like

This pair of previously-unpublished Wayne Boring penciled panels from Secret Origins #1 (1986) had to be omitted for space reasons; they show Lois Lane about to be captured by criminals for the first time—after which she’ll be rescued by Superman, ditto. The Superman sketch above, perhaps by Shuster, is from the 1942 illustrated novel Superman by George Lowther. [©2003 DC Comics.]

Jerry Siegel, Fred Allen, & Harry Donenfeld

SUPERMAN: Superman doesn’t step aside for anyone. Say, I think what you need is as little trip up in the air. Come on! DONENFELD: Hey! Ouch! Lemme go, lemme go! SUPERMAN: Sorry, you need to be calmed down, so up we go! Up, up, and away! [Wind sound effects] Ha-ha-ha! How do you like it up here, a thousand feet in the air? DONENFELD: I don’t like it! I gotta weak stomach, and any minute, I’m going to lose it! Please take me down! SUPERMAN: Okay, here we go! Down! [Wind effect stops] Here we are. DONENFELD: Oooh! Where are we? [Superman laughs] Where am I? SUPERMAN: Why, we’re back at the Independent News Company meeting. Les Daniels’ 1998 book Superman: The Complete History featured this (circa1940?) photo of publisher Harry Donenfeld (left) with radio’s Superman/Clark Kent and Lois Lane, Bud Collyer and Joan Alexander, posing in front of H.J. Ward’s famous portrait of Superman, which hung for years in DC’s outer office.

this opportunity to change... SUPERMAN: ...to Superman! On behalf of my publishers, publishers of Action and Detective Comics magazines, I want to welcome you to this Independent News Company meeting. May I also say that I’m very happy to be here with you.... HARRY DONENFELD: Wait a minute! Wait a minute! I’ve got something to say here! SUPERMAN: Say, who are you?

DONENFELD: Oh... thank God! Now look, Superman, let’s be friends. No more tricks, please! SUPERMAN: Okay, we’ll be friends. And just to prove that I am your friend, I’ll fly you back to New York when the convention is over. DONENFELD: That’s what you think! For my money, an airplane is fast enough! [Footsteps receding] SUPERMAN: Ha-ha-ha! Look at Harry run! Well, goodbye, and good luck! [Music: “Three Cheers for the Red, White, and Blue”]

DONENFELD: Who am I? Do you ask who I am? SUPERMAN: That’s what I said. Who are you? DONENFELD: Why, I’m Harry Donenfeld, your boss. SUPERMAN: My boss? Never even heard of you. DONENFELD: You’ve never heard of me? SUPERMAN: No. DONENFELD: Why, you—! Look, I took you off a drawing-board and made a man outta ya! I’ve plastered your name from coast to coast! I put you in magazines, on radio, and in the newspapers! I’ve just completed arrangements to put you on the screen! And you never heard of me? Step aside, Superman, while I say a few words of greeting to Curly Sandervald, and Ruth Wiener, and the rest of my friends here.

Monthly! Edited and published by Robin Snyder

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K-Metal

K-Metal: The “Lost” Superman Tale The Most Important Superman Story Never Told by Mark Waid To be fair, I’d been wondering about it since I was ten years old. That made it easier to recognize. On my tenth Christmas, I received a copy of The Steranko History of Comics, Volume One, my first real exposure to the vast tapestry that is comic book history. “Absorbed” doesn’t begin to describe how obsessed I was with the information contained in its gigantic tabloid-size pages; by spring, I had the book practically memorized. Steranko’s reportorial prose style was colorful and vivid, and I had no problem following the sometimes-labyrinthine histories of characters and creators both popular and obscure. The only bit of information that left me puzzled came on page 35, where the author had reproduced “four pages from an unpublished ‘Superman’ story, circa 1939.” At age ten, I couldn’t understand why in the world any “Superman” story would be “unpublished,” but it certainly made an impression. Sixteen years later, I was a guest at the 1988 Superman Expo, held in Cleveland, Ohio, to mark the Man of Steel’s fiftieth anniversary. Among the exhibits was an assemblage of pages, far more than simply the four in History of Comics, from that same unprinted story. In fact, an exhibitor had borrowed and assembled from several sources all its known extant artwork; and, while the collection was far from complete—with the

beginning and ending notably missing—it surprised me to glean from the lettered page-numbers that the story had been over twenty pages in length. That was a remarkable anomaly given that almost without exception, all “Superman” stories of the early 1940s (all of them) were exactly 13 pages long, presumably so that each installment could either fit the lead slot in an issue of Action Comics or serve as one-fourth of a Superman line-up. That this tale had been axed because of its odd length seemed pretty unlikely, but it was the only explanation that made sense.

One of various posters created to advertise the 1948 Columbia movie serial Superman. This one, unlike the others, utilized art from the comics (that sure looks like a Winslow Mortimer Superman to Ye Editor). So what’s that serial got to do with a “lost” comic book story? Read on, MacDuff...! [©2003 DC Comics.]

Until. In ’88, as a staffer at DC, one of my responsibilities was overseeing the company’s library. That wasn’t where I worked; we had a staff librarian, and I was busy serving one editorial function or another on Secret Origins, Action Comics Weekly, Batman: Gotham by Gaslight, Doom Patrol, Justice League, Wonder Woman, and the various Who’s Who series, and serving as Roy Thomas’ in-house liaison on Infinity, Inc. and Young All-Stars. One of my “side duties,” however, was to assist and guide the licensors who had arranged to microfiche DC’s rarer comics, a task that often involved identifying some of the weird lost treasures that would still turn up from time to time in the library’s giant filing cabinets. On the Wednesday before Thanksgiving of that year, DC had closed the offices early, but (having no family plans) I was in no mad rush to leave. Good thing. Milling around the library afterhours (always far more a

The “Lost” Superman Tale

(Above:) As copiously described in a 1994 Sotheby’s catalog, “the surviving three panel section of the original art from Jerry Siegel’s and Joe Shuster’s historic first Superman daily,” showing among other things the destruction of Krypton. Two panels are apparently missing missing between the first two shown, and were probably cut off to be used in Action Comics #1 in 1938, while the action shown here was redrawn for the comic. (Below:) The first page of Siegel’s synopsis for this 26-page “first Kryptonite” story in 1940 begins with a fragment of what will be called “K-Metal” approaching Earth years later. [Art ©2003 DC Comics; synopsis ©2003 the respective copyright holder.]

joy than a chore), I was stunned to come across a dusty, forgotten ream box filled with faded, blurred carbon copies of typewritten manuscripts. And not just any manuscripts. Jerry Siegel “Superman” scripts from the late 1930s and early 1940s. Hmm. That adventure looked familiar... and that one... and that one... but what if...? For the remainder of the afternoon and into the evening, I laboriously matched each hazy carbon to its corresponding published story, all the while hoping against hope that maybe, just maybe, one script would be left over at the end of the day. And one was. One dated August 7, 1940. One that weighed in at a conspicuously hefty 26 pages. Page 8 looked familiar. Page 15, I recognized. I knew instantly what I’d found. It was a copy of the full manuscript for that lost story I’d seen as a boy. And what a story. It opens with Clark Kent interviewing Professor Barnett Winton, an astronomer whose telescope detects a passing meteor that Winton is “quite certain” is a fragment of an exploded planet he had studied years earlier, a world he called (for no given reason, by the way) “Krypton.” This means nothing to Clark, of course; as far as he’s concerned, he might as well be covering a flower show. Things gets marginally more exciting for poor Kent when, while covering a museum opening, he’s able to surreptitiously use his powers to protect attendees during the robbery of a painting, but it’s

K-Metal

An historic triptych: (a) Jerry Siegel’s letter to Jack (Liebowitz?) sent along with the script; (b) part of the first page of the script of the untitled “KMetal” story, far too dark to be reproduced well; (c) Mark Waid’s painstaking retyping, duplicating typeface, style, even typos. Talk about “above and beyond”! [©2003 the respective copyright holder.]

not until page 8 that Superman himself springs into action— —for what could be the last time. While pulling a child from the path of an out-ofcontrol motorist, Superman feels a strange, sudden weakness that saps him of his powers. True, he’d felt a moment of fatigue earlier at Professor Winton’s office, but he’d chalked that up to boredom. Could there be a connection? Clark, now completely stripped of his super-abilities, visits Winton again and learns a startling truth: long ago, while on an expedition in Mongolia, Winton had discovered a fallen metallic meteorite “of such strange, such forceful emanations” that he’d had to shield it in lead. Wheeling out a great metal container, Winton lifts its lid to reveal the meteorite, which “glows with a penetrating green brilliance!” Winton goes on to add that, “Strangely enough, it was dull only until the fragment from Krypton approached Earth... then came this new luster!” Proof enough to both men that this metal, like the passing meteor above, hails from Krypton. Even more startlingly, while touching the metal gives the professor super-strength, its exposure conversely paralyzes Clark with agonizing pain. “Interesting—and PUZZLING!” observes Winton, but Clark (thinking to himself) privately puts two and two together. He and the distant meteor, he deduces, are like “two poles of a short-circuited battery”: “While I lived on Krypton I derived great strength and powers from the planet, but after the explosion and my removal to [E]arth[,] contact was broken in some mysterious fashion. When the fragment nears [E]arth, the effect upon me is NEGATIVE!” At last, Clark knows the secret of his origin... but at a devastating cost. Clark, now genuinely weak for the first time, blunders through a very human day of pain and exertion, eventually joining Lois on the trail of the museum thieves, who have uncovered a map hidden within their

The “Lost” Superman Tale

stolen painting. Following the criminals to a long-lost mine, Clark and Lois are sealed in a cave by a landslide and teeter on the edge of death by suffocation— —when Clark feels power flooding back into his body! The meteor has left Earth orbit to continue its journey through space... but its timing certainly could have been better. With only seconds to go, in order to free Lois from the cave-in before she perishes, he’s left with no choice: He must reveal his true identity as Superman. “Clark Kent... SUPERMAN??? I—I must be imagining things!” says Lois. “That’s it! The lack of air—affecting my mind...” An opening if ever there were one, but Superman doesn’t even try to use Lois’ confusion to bluff an excuse. Instead, the moment of revelation soon wraps with this exchange: “How foolish you were not to let me in on the secret!” says Lois.

Page 5 (or, as Jerry Siegel wrote it, “V.”) of the script, and the original art page. The latter, autographed by TV “Lois” Noel Neill, was offered for sale in a catalog by dealer Tom Horvitz of Tarzana, CA, in 1995-96, for the princely sum of $900; give him a call re comic art goodies at (818) 757-0747, but we kinda suspect this page is long gone by now. Art by the Joe Shuster shop. [Superman, Clark Kent, & Lois Lane TM & ©2003 DC Comics.]

“You should have known you could trust me! Why—don’t you realize—I might even be of great help to you?” “You’re right! There were many times when I could have used the assistance of a confederate. Why didn’t I think of it before?” “Then it’s settled! We’re to be—partners!” “Yes—partners!” That’s right. No excuses. No clever tricks on Superman’s part, no attempt at recovery. It’s clear from the script that this is no cliffhanger ending, no jam Superman must trick his way out of, no dangling plot thread to be later resolved. It was undeniably intended to be the new status quo from then on out: Clark and Lois, partners and confidantes. Wait. There’s more. Professor Winton has left a message at Clark’s office. Someone has stolen Winton’s Kryptonian meteorite—but who? From the final caption of the story: “SUPERMAN will learn the answer to this

K-Metal

(Left:) For some reason, Siegel would type two or more pages of script on a single sheet of paper, and wasn’t at all reluctant to carry over part of one comics page description to the next sheet of paper. Page “XI” begins a few lines from the top of this sheet lovingly retyped by Mark Waid. (Below:) Repro’d from an art catalog is a copy of the art for page 11. Mark says DC once sent him a photocopy, “in hopes I could ID it.” [Superman TM & ©2003 DC Comics.]

perplexing question in future episodes when he is faced by a mysterious foe who uses the powers of the K-Metal to render the Man of Steel vulnerable in their clashes! DON’T MISS IT!!” What sort of Twilight Zone had I stumbled into? In my world, Lois’s suspicion that Clark was Superman was an inviolate staple of the mythos. In my world, kryptonite first appeared on the Adventures of Superman radio program in 1943. In my world, Superman hadn’t learned of his Kryptonian origins until 1949, when kryptonite was finally introduced into the comics. But in a world in which this story had been published instead of shelved, all of that—and everything since—would have been radically different. Why hadn’t it seen print in 1940? An investigation led nowhere. Neither Jerry Siegel nor editors Vin Sullivan or Jack Schiff even remembered the story, though their best guess jibed with mine: that it was discarded because Clark’s disclosure of his secret overturned too much of the Superman Legend just when the character’s story was becoming familiar to the public. The Man of Steel’s popularity was growing fast; the newspaper strip was booming, the radio show had hit the airwaves, and there were talks of novelizations, cartoons, and movie serials. From the very beginning, a huge part of the appeal of the Superman concept was the Superman/Lois/Clark triangle, so while we’ll

never know for sure, in all likelihood, Superman’s publishers decided simply not to mess with the magic. The K-Metal, of course, is its own mystery. Why it, too, was abandoned is an enigma for the ages. It’s clever, it’s dramatic, and as named “kryptonite” by the radio show, the innovation of a debilitating radioactive mineral from Superman’s homeworld eventually worked its way into continuity anyway. Why, then, was the concept abandoned in 1940? Was it later suggested to the radio producers, or did they invent it independently? Again, we’ll never know.

The “Lost” Superman Tale

Though it came paper-clipped to a clearly photocopied (and very detailed) story synopsis (dated in-house, oddly, later than the script, though clearly written before!), the carbon of the script itself was smudged, smeared, and on cheap paper, rendering photocopies illegible (at least by 1988 Xerox technology). In order to create a reproduceable copy for posterity, I had to find an Elite-typeface typewriter and meticulously reproduce the script—which I did, exactly and precisely, typos and all, to create a replica virtually indistinguishable from the carbon save for its sharp clarity. Copies of that were circulated to then-Superman editor Mike Carlin and to our mutual bosses in hopes we could obtain Siegel’s blessing to have the story re-illustrated and released at last, but for whatever reason, nothing ever came of that. Hopefully, we’ll see it someday. In the meantime, it remains the Most Important Superman Story Never Told. In the event any of Alter Ego’s readers can shine any more light on it, don’t hesitate to let us know.

Although kryptonite was introduced on the Adventures of Superman radio show in 1943, and in the comics in Superman #61 (Nov.-Dec. ’49), page “XV” of this 1940 script shows that it was indeed Jerry Siegel’s creation, several years earlier! But the 1948 Columbia theatrical serial Superman beat the comics to the punch, and perhaps influenced them to utilize it, when it included a chapter-ending sequence in which Clark is exposed to the strange metal—collapses—and is declared dead by the scientist who shows it to him. That film sequence roughly parallels events related on page 15 of the “K-Metal” script, but there are significant differences: in the serial, the professor’s name is Leeds rather than Winton, and the Earthman doesn’t gain superstrength from touching it—but in both cases it’s potentially deadly to Clark! Clark/Superman was played in the two late-’40s serials by Kirk Alyn, Prof. Leeds by Forrest Taylor. [Superman TM & ©2003 DC Comics; script page TM & ©2003 the respective copyright holder.]

K-Metal

Jim Steranko featured somewhat fuzzy repros of the finished art for page 15 in his excellent 1970 Steranko History of Comics, Vol. 1, as well as three more pages that do not duplicate those accompanying this article. However, Jim declined to give us his blessing to reproduce those four pages in Alter Ego, and we elected to honor his wishes.

[To quote his bio from DC’s Superman: The Action Comics Archives, Vol. 1, in 1997: “Mark Waid, comics writer and historian, is a survivor of the doomed planet Krypton whose powers were sapped by exposure to Gold Kryptonite at an early age. Or so he tells himself.”]

Two kryptonite headaches for the price of one! (Left:) “The Origin of Superman” in Superman #53 (July-Aug. 1948), the full recounting of the Man of Steel’s beginnings, was drawn by Wayne Boring; though the hero’s homeworld exploded, there was no hint that its fragments would be dangerous to Krypton’s last son. (Right:) Less than a year and a half later, in Superman #61 (Nov.-Dec. ’49), “Superman Returns to Krypton,” he learned his own backstory in an otherwise lackluster tale involving a fake swami; art for that one was by Al Plastino. [©2003 DC Comics.]

Alex Toth

Alex Toth on Shelly Mayer Part II [NOTE: In Alter Ego #21, we printed some extended comments by Alex on Sheldon Mayer, editor of the All-American Comics group from its founding in 1939 through his return to the cartoonists’ life in 1948. Here, as an adjunct to those remarks, is a brief note Alex wrote in 1992, soon after Mayer’s death. They were previously printed in Robin Snyder’s The Comics! (then History of the Comics), Vol. 3, #5, May ’92. —Roy.]

When super-heroes became all the rage by the late ’30s, Shelly Mayer adapted by introducing the distaff Red Tornado into his “Scribbly” feature about a “boy cartoonist” based largely on himself. This art from All-American Comics #21 (Dec. 1940) is one of 20 “Scribbly” pages reprinted in Michael Barrier and Martin Williams’ 1981 tome A Smithsonian Book of Comic-book Comics. The authors ranked Mayer’s work as worthy of inclusion along with that of Siegel & Shuster, Bob Kane & Bill Finger, Jack Cole, C.C. Beck & Otto Binder, Basil Wolverton, George Carlson, John Stanley, Carl Barks, Walt Kelly, Will Eisner, and the EC gang (esp. Harvey Kurtzman, Al Feldstein, and Bernie Krigstein). [©2003 DC Comics.]

Alex Toth

A rare Mayer & Toth team-up, on a house ad that appeared in numerous DC mags—including in Comic Cavalcade #27 (June-July 1948), one of the very issues its advertises! Shelly probably drew all the background art featuring the kid (Scribbly’s little brother Dinky), while the covers of CC #27 and All-Star Comics #41 are by Toth—except for the Mayer-drawn Cotton-top Katie on the former. Note that three blocks of copy on the Mr. District Attorney cover (by John Prentice?) are all pasted-up negatives, which would be cleaned up in the printed versions. [©2003 DC Comics.]

Though Alex Toth never drew the Golden Age Hawkman except in “Justice Society” chapters in All-Star, he did do the Silver Age version on this model sheet for HannaBarbera’s Superfriends TV cartoon show in 1977. There’s a Hawkgirl sheet, too, that we’ll print one of these days. Thanks to Al Dellinges. [Art ©2003 the respective copyright holder; Hawkman TM & ©2003 DC Comics.]

No. 85 Our 30th Year! 1973-2003

Marc Swayze “Good marnin,’ officer.” Marnin? Weill had pronounced it marnin’, too! Smart… but I hoped he wouldn’t overdo it. “And a fine day it is today. May I see your license, sir?”

[EDITORS NOTE: From 1941-53, Marcus D. Swayze was a top artist for Fawcett Comics. The very first Mary Marvel character sketches came from Marc’s drawing table, and he illustrated her earliest adventures, including her classic origin in Captain Marvel Adventures #18, Dec. ’42; but he was primarily hired by Fawcett Publications to illustrate Captain Marvel stories and covers for Whiz Comics and CMA. He also wrote many Captain Marvel scripts, and continued to do so while in the military. After leaving the service, he made an arrangement with Fawcett to produce material for them on a freelance basis out of his Louisiana home. There he created both art and story for “The Phantom Eagle” in Wow Comics, in addition to drawing the Flyin’ Jenny newspaper strip for Bell Syndicate (created by his friend and mentor Russell Keaton). After the cancellation of Wow, Swayze produced artwork for Fawcett’s top-selling line of romance comics, including Sweethearts and Life Story. After the company ceased publishing comics, Marc moved over to Charlton Publications, where he ended his comics career in the mid-’50s. Marc’s ongoing professional memoirs have been FCA’s most popular feature since his first column appeared in FCA #54, 1996. Continuing from last issue, Marc relates more about the laughter, jokes, and fun atmosphere that prevailed in the Fawcett art department. —P.C. Hamerlinck.]

I don’t know why, but for years I had pictured New York police as being rude and overbearing. But this fellow seemed okay. Santa Claus red cheeks underneath kind eyes with the hint of a twinkle reminded me of my father. This was a good man. My mind’s eye visualized him in his home… surely a family man… slippers in hand… tired after a long day on the pavements. Maybe he was lonely and wanted to be friends. I liked him. “I could be wrong, but wasn’t the light red when you passed through? Of course, I make mistakes now and then… we all do, don’t we?” Bless him, he was offering us a way out. He rested his elbows on the open window and spoke softly, confidentially: “Lately the old peepers have been playing tricks on me. Red looks like green sometimes, green looks like red. But I thought it was red…” Weill was sitting up straight now. His head had emerged from the turned-up lapels of his topcoat, and his voice was stronger. Not one to overlook an opening, Irwin Weill was taking a stand! “Officer, I am a professional artist. Colors are my specialty. I am employed at… you’ve heard of Captain Marvel?”

I wouldn’t have known how to find Jamaica, New York, on the map when I first went to work at Fawcett Publications. That, however, was my address for a while, after fellow art staff member Irwin Weill offered to share his apartment. Usually we took the subway to Times Square, but for some reason, on this day we drove in. The route took us through what at that early hour appeared to be one small community after another. As we passed under a traffic light at a somewhat isolated intersection, we were startled by a shrill whistle. You don’t see them any more… or hear them, those whistles cops used to have. Believe me, they were loud… this one in particular! Weill knew what to do. He pulled over immediately and drew to a stop. We sat silently while a heavy patrolman strode leisurely from the far corner of the intersection. “Good marnin,’ gentlemen.”

“We Didn’t Know...”

45 Poor Weill sat motionless, staring straight ahead. He held his new traffic ticket before him without looking at it. His shoulders were slumped, his face askew. What he needed was a stiff drink. But it was too early. There used to be a product available for making corrections. We called it “Chinese white.” Remember? It may have had several commercial names, but asking in any art or stationery store for “Chinese White” got you what you wanted. Although it usually came in small bottles, in the Fawcett art department it was purchased in quart jars. Not that we made more mistakes than others, but there were more of us. Chinese white and rubber cement were about the only supply items provided for community-type sharing among the artists. Almost to the man the art staff was made up of witty individuals. One would have thought the yearn to laugh, to joke, and to be able to take a joke were part of the application for employment. And among the members were about half a dozen who, with a little experience, might have been qualified for show biz… on the comedy side.

Marc Swayze says that C.C. Beck insisted his all-time favorite scene was the time when Billy Batson forgot to say “Shazam!” Above and below are the splash panel and sequence from that story, “Captain Marvel and the Baron of Barracuda Bay,” written by Marc Swayze, with art done in Beck’s shop, for Captain Marvel Adventures #30 (Dec. ’43). [ ©2003 DC Comics.]

“What precinct?” Weill quickly let that one go and continued. He was an authority now! “Colors do that to the eye. Look at one color long enough and it changes to…” “It wasn’t red, then?” “Of course not!” By this time the policeman’s broad shoulders filled the open window from edge to edge, his face well within the car, nose to nose with Weill’s. “THE LIGHT WAS RED!” Maybe my imagination was working overtime, but to this day I swear Weill’s hair stood straight up! Mine may have, too. This cop had a voice! Not only that… he had a conniving mind! The crafty manner in which he had lured Weill till he was right where he wanted him… then slammed the dagger home… right to the heart… was diabolical. And they talked about New York’s “Pride of the Finest”! This fellow was a dragon in a cop’s uniform! And he was so satisfied with himself. You could tell from the way he swaggered away!

Marc Swayze Rindner, leaning in the open door, the phone still in his hand, watched her brush past him into the art department. “Who’s got the big jar of black Chinese white? I’ve got to have it right away… for Mister Daigh!” Red didn’t know “Mister Daigh,” but she knew who he was! Not just an editor, but THE… executive… over all the publications of the company… rarely ever seen in our part of the offices. Each time she spoke the name, her eyes opened wider! Layout artist Eddie Richscheid picked up the gag without a hitch… and passed it on! “Hey, Beck!” he called to the far end of the department. “Red needs the big jar of black Chinese white!” “I had it,” said C.C. Beck to Red, now puffing. “But I gave it to Andy Anderson, over by the window!” Back and forth it went… poor Red invariably directed to the farthest end of the department. “Civavdi has it!” “I gave it to Benton… Jess, where’s the black Chinese white?” “Capalupo came and got it! Vic…!”

“Captain Marvel and His Country Cousin,” written by Marc Swayze, illustrated by the Beck art staff, from Captain Marvel Adventures #26 (Aug. 1943). When Swayze wrote this story, he hoped to do the art himself, but was too busy with a succession of cover art assignments for CMA and Whiz Comics. [©2003 DC Comics.]

“I have some correction white here…” began Fred Rippida, holding out a small bottle. “No! No!” cried Red. “Mister Daigh wants the quart jar! Anyway, this is white! He wants black!”

One of those was Jack Rinder. Jack could clown, do imitations, sing… and if you didn’t watch out, he’d jump up and go through one of his routines in any restaurant in town! The art department was rarely without its leader. Al Allard was almost always either in his office, in one of the other executive offices, or at the photo studio up the street. On one occasion, however, he was called away for several weeks… and a young lady was brought in to occupy the office… answer the phone, take messages… and whatever young ladies are called in for in such circumstances. She was a delightful little gal, hardly more than high school age, neat, attractive, well bred… likely from the Connecticut community where Allard and other company officials resided. I don’t remember her name… and am not sure I ever knew it… but she had the reddest natural red hair one could imagine. And that is what the Fawcett art department called her: “Red”! We had two telephones for our use, both wall hangers. One was just inside the main doorway from the corridor, the other very close to the door into Allard’s office. It was the phone being used by Jack Rindner on this day! Whatever Jack’s conversation had been is not important, but as he finished it his prankish mind began to function. He called Allard’s extension and watched Red, seated at Al’s table a few feet away, grab the phone. In one of his fake voices—he had several—he spoke briefly. “Yes,” answered Red in her most businesslike manner. Then, more excitedly, “Ok… Mister Daigh! Yessir… yessir… YES—SIR!”

“We Didn’t Know...” About the nearest to absolute fact came from Mac Raboy, who said, “I haven’t seen it!” Of course not. Nobody ever saw any black Chinese white! Al Pauley paused from his work and said to Red, “Taggart usually knows where everything is. Check with Frank!” Pete Costanza said, “He went to the bathroom! I think he took it with him!” Down the hall went Red… past the elevators… past the receptionist… a small audience in tow. The automatic door to the restroom section operated quietly until it made contact… with a SLAM! “Taggart! Taggart! Mister Daigh wants…” SLAM! Entering the spirit of the occasion, the hallway assembly saw to it that the door was kept busy. “Are you in there, Taggart? Mister Daigh needs…” SLAM! “…needs the black Chinese…” SLAM! Jack Rindner had stepped through the onlookers and tapped Red on the shoulder. He held a large jar of rubber cement. “Here is some I found. As you can see, it has faded, but once it is applied it regains the original solid black. Mr. Daigh will love it!” And Red, rather tired now, hugging her prize in both arms, scampered down the hall toward Daigh’s office.

Later that same day, art director Allard returned to his office briefly. Before he left he pinned on his bulletin board a bold, hand-lettered notice for all to see: “RALPH DAIGH SAID TO TELL YOU GUYS TO HAVE A HEART!” I am happy to add that when the complete story unfolded, it was Red who laughed loudest. And I’m sure that Jack Rindner was confident that it would be that way, or it wouldn’t have begun. Nor would the members of the art staff have participated. They loved fun… that Fawcett gang… but they were not cruel! [Marc Swayze will be back next issue with more memories of the Golden Age of Comics.]

WANTED: COVER RECREATION PAINTINGS BY

C.C. BECK contact: fca2001@yahoo.com

ComicsOnCDRom

The Future Is… ComicsOnCDRom by P.C. Hamerlinck The experience of reading an old comic book… yes, those flimsy little magazines of our youth with off-registered big halftone dots of lurid color and their hand-lettered text, all poorly printed on brittle newsprint paper yet containing highly imaginative stories and great artwork… are now available at the click of a mouse. In 1989, while comics and original art dealer Richard Halegua was working on scanning images in his Las Vegas office, he realized he could put an entire old comic on a floppy disc, knowing that someday—in the perhaps not too distant future—all printed matter would eventually come on a disc or crystal of some sort. Halegua started working on the logistics, and finally released his first set of compact discs in 1996, each featuring scans of one complete Golden Age comic. Originally his CDs containing a single comic retailed for $9.95. Fellow veteran dealer Bud Plant spoke to Halegua about the CDs and said he might be able to offer them in his catalog if there were more comics per disc and at a different price. Later that year, Halegua introduced ComicsOnCDRom, a line of Golden Age comic books (and old pulp covers) neatly complied onto price-efficient CD-Roms. Each disc generally contains five complete issues from cover to cover—including all those lovable Charles Atlas and Captain Tootsie ads—and, at $19.95 each, are a steal when you consider the constantly escalating values of Golden Age comics (even those frail, crumbling-into-dust lower grade books) listed every year in the Overstreet Price Guide. There is no doubt in Halegua’s mind that the electronic format is the future for all publishing, not just comic books. Part of his day involves developing new and innovative ideas in the fields of animation, games, voice-overs, and more. “Digital format will be the universal link for all consumers and historians around the globe,” says Halegua. “It’s less bulky than paper and, unlike a printed publication, can have many different interactive features. All Golden Age comics, old books, and various historical relics should be preserved in a way where they are available both for historical record, as well as available for readers to discover so much great stuff for which there would be, in many cases, few options for them to ever see.” Thus far, ComicsOnCDRom have released a bulk of Golden Age comic book titles, including Kid Eternity, The Durango Kid, True Crime (a gallery of crime comics, some by Fawcett), Military Comics (with Reed Crandall-illustrated “Blackhawk” stories by William Woolfolk), Fighting Yank, Rulah Jungle Goddess, Silver Streak (including early Jack Binder art and featuring Jack Cole’s legendary Daredevil battling The Claw), Jumbo Comics (featuring Sheena), Exciting Comics (with the Black Terror), Uncle Sam, and special artist compilations featuring the works of such greats as Basil Wolverton, Frank Frazetta, and Fox Good Girl Art samplers with classic stories illustrated by Matt Baker, Jack Kamen, and others masters of the genre. Of special interest to Fawcett fans is a spectacular Spy Smasher volume, as well as two outstanding Bulletman volumes (a Captain Midnight disc is soon to be released). Over 25,000 comic issues are planned for archiving during the coming years. Obviously, this is a

ComicsOnCDRom’s Fawcett releases to date (top to bottom): Bulletman, Vol. 1 (BM #4, 5, 14-16), Spy Smasher, Vol. 1 (SS #2, 3, 5, 7, 8), Bulletman, Vol. 2 (BM #2, 3, 7, 9, 10). [©2003 the respective copyright holders.]

considerable project, which will take a very long time. ComicsOnCDRom [www.comicsoncdrom.com] releases represent titles from some of the finest publishers from the Golden Age: Standard/ Nedor, Fiction House, Avon, Fox, Quality, and the aforementioned Fawcett. However, comics originally published by DC, Marvel, and EC are currently road-blocked due to licensing restrictions and costs. In addition to preserving Golden Age comics in a digital format, Halegua feels that the survival of today’s troubled comic industry is dependent on adapting to new frontiers belonging to the rapidly developing and changing world of digital technology. “The comic industry is in a dire situation,” Halegua concludes. “The publishers do not advertise their products, so new readers are few and far between. Movies are in many ways better ‘comics’ than actual comic books are and can be a much better value, measuring the admission for a cool movie like Spider-Man while a comic can cost the same price at times and not be nearly as entertaining… and this in a time when fewer people are taking the time to read publications to begin with. Comic readership has diminished steadily since World War II, with a brief resurgence period in the ’60s/early ’70s. There are fewer comics sold every month of all titles published combined than Captain Marvel Adventures alone sold each month during WW II… a sad commentary on the producers of current comics, who are more interested in the huge profits the Spider-Man movie made rather than in trying to make a successful publishing company. I think comics in their current format are dead, and the future is… ComicsOnCDRom.”

Ken Bald

From A Barn To Barnabus A Chat with KEN BALD, Artist and Binder Shop Art Director by Mark Voger Edited by P.C. Hamerlinck He’s not the only artist to have made his contribution to the Fawcett line of comics anonymously. But before long, Ken Bald’s name would ring loud and clear in the annals of comicdom. Prior to World War II, young Bald toiled in obscurity—happily so—at the legendary Jack Binder studio/barn in Englewood, New Jersey, which cranked out early stories starring Captain Marvel, Spy Smasher, Bulletman, and company for Fawcett Publications. After the war, Bald worked briefly for the Beck-Costanza shop, also located in Englewood. But Bald made his most profound mark in the medium as the artist behind the syndicated comic strips Dr. Kildare, Judd Saxon, and Dark Shadows. The former continued to run for years after the 1961-66 medical drama starring Richard Chamberlain went off the air. The latter, though it lasted only a year, is still a favorite among devoted fans of the 1966-71 Gothic soap opera starring Jonathan Frid as 18th-century gentleman vampire Barnabas Collins. Bald, who is now semi-retired, continues to produce storyboards in the advertising field. Another of Bald’s distinctions is that he is one of the few living people to have known and worked with two of the Fawcett world’s greatest artists: C.C. Beck and Kurt Schaffenberger. (Bald and Schaffenberger were in the same class at prestigious Pratt Institute in Brooklyn, and entered the Binder studio around the same time.) So when P.C. Hamerlinck and I set about deciding who would be the best candidate to write the foreword for Beck and Schaffenberger: Sons of Thunder (our deleted book project which has now morphed into two separate books, one on each of the artists), Bald's name was at the top of the list. The artist graciously consented. “Clarence Beck and Kurt Schaffenberger are no longer with us, but in a way, they are,” Bald wrote. “Just look in one of their many comic books, and thrill to the adventures of Captain Marvel or Superman. Fans will always remember Clarence and Kurt for their contributions to the medium. What more can an artist hope for?” Well said! I spoke to Bald spoke from his New Jersey home… — Mark Voger

Captain Marvel, Mr. Scarlet and Pinky, Bulletman, and Commando Yank. Ken Bald’s cover art for FCA #12 (a.k.a. FCA/SOB #1), April 1980, C.C. Beck’s first issue as editor—and Ken Bald himself, in the late 1940s. Photo courtesy of Dorothy Schaffenberger. [Art ©2003 Ken Bald; characters TM & ©2003 DC Comics.]

From A Barn To Barnabus According to Hames Ware, the Binder Shop records say that Ken Bald illustrated the cover for Captain Midnight #3 (Dec. 1942), and that he penciled the hero’s interior stories off and on during that same year and perhaps into early 1943. (No specific issues were listed in Jack Binder’s records.) Bald, who was art director for a time at the Binder Shop, also penciled some “Bulletman,” “Mr. Scarlet,” and “Captain Marvel” stories in 1942, but alas, no exact dates or specifics were recorded as to which issues contained his work. It is also not known exactly who was inking his pencils at this time; it may have been his brother-in-law, Vic Dowd. Later on, circa late ’40s/early ’50s, both he and Dowd came back to do work on Fawcett’s romance comics. The best place to see latter-day Ken Bald comic book work is at ACG, where he did a multitude of covers in all genres... but again, none of his work was ever signed! [Art ©2003 the respective copyright holder.]

MV: What was Kurt Schaffenberger like when you two were college chums? BALD: We teased each other all the time. He had a great sense of humor. He was always a lot of fun. He was an “up” sort of person. I remember traveling up to Hartford, Connecticut, to meet his mom and dad. After Pratt, we both worked for Jack Binder’s studio out there in Englewood. In fact, Kurt and I roomed together there. MV: How do you remember those days at the Binder studio? BALD: I had lived in Mount Vernon [New York]. The trip for that first month I traveled from Mount Vernon to Englewood involved a trolley ride, a subway ride, and a bus, and everything else. [laughs] So it used to take me two hours to get in! This was before I got a car. MV: What sort of work were you doing at the studio? BALD: When we worked for Binder out there in Englewood on St. Nicholas Avenue, he had a big barn, which he had converted the top of into a studio. We worked there. Everything we did was “piecework,” so to speak. I think there were maybe ten of us or more. We The Binder barn in the early 1940s. Jack Binder is standing. Ken Bald is to his left, not looking at the camera. The other artists are, alas, unidentified. Photo courtesy of Nat Champlin.

Ken Bald

were all direct from Pratt, and we all had been friends and so forth. For lunch hour, we would play a seven-inning game of softball. We would also play softball teams from Fawcett and maybe Street & Smith, as we had this ball field right across the way from us in Englewood. We often worked pretty late into the night. Most of us were living away from our homes, and being that we were all bachelor guys, we’d work late up in the studio. As I said, everything was piecework. Maybe six guys would work on the same page. Bill Ward, who was a fraternity brother from Pratt, would do the layouts. I know I did the penciling of the main figures and inking. Somebody would do the secondary characters. Somebody else would do the backgrounds. And then there’d be a lettering man involved. There might be six or seven names on the back of this big piece of art that we’d be working on. At that time, the pages were quite large. MV: Who else was working in the barn? Besides Jack Binder, of course, and Wendell Crowley… there was you, Kurt Schaffenberger, and Bill Ward. Who were some of the other artists? BALD: There was a fella by the name of Bob Butts, who was also from Pratt, and there was Al Duca, who became a sculptor. There had to be ten or twelve of us. Kurt was one of the three, I guess, of the closest buddies I had from Pratt. One is still my brother-in-law, Vic Dowd, and the other is Bob Boyajian, another fella from Pratt who worked for Binder, too.

MV: What were some of the features you were working on? BALD: “Captain Marvel,” “Captain Midnight,” “Spy Smasher,” “Bulletman,” “Mr. Scarlet,” “Ibis,” “Doc Savage”… we did a whole slew of ’em. We did an awful lot for Street & Smith, along with Fawcett’s features. Those were the ones we worked for. Most all of our stuff was done through Jack, who became a great friend of mine, too, and his family. By the time we moved the shop to 507 Fifth Avenue, Jack Binder had made me art director. So all I did was more or less supervise and do covers for him. That’s the way it was until we went into the service. MV: When the war hit, were you drafted? BALD: No, I joined the Marine Corps. I went in exactly one year after Pearl Harbor: December 7, 1942. Within the year, I was overseas with the Fifth Marines, the First Marine Division. We were on Guadalcanal, we were on New Britain and Peralue and Okinawa, and then we went to China just before I came home. I was overseas for 25 months. MV: What did you do after WWII? BALD: After the war, we came right back, and for the first couple of months, Jack Binder had tied up with C.C. Beck, originator and chief artist of Captain Marvel, and Beck’s assistant, Pete Costanza. I worked for the Beck-Costanza studio for a while as an art director, but I wanted to get going on my own stuff, so I sort-of got out of it to a certain extent. I did syndicated stuff and then advertising. Kurt Schaffenberger

But Bill Ward was the first one at the Binder Studio, because he graduated in a class ahead of us and got out earlier. He was influential, as we graduated, in getting us all out there to work in the comics. He was pretty damned good, because at that time, they had the graduates who studied illustration and design… they either tried their hand like we did, or they went into the ad agencies, into what they called the bullpen. And they were making $15 a week. That was the going thing. This was when, if you made $100 a week, you were doing tremendously well. But the first week we went to Binder, I was able to take home $55, which was tremendous. We made money, and it was good money. Inside of a year, you were making over $100. We did well. MV: From what Kurt told me, you earned every penny. BALD: Oh, yeah, but it was a fun time. We were young… 20, 21, 22, something like that. We had never seen much money before. And we were doing it at our own hours. We would, say, take a two, two-and-a-half hour lunch, but you’d make up for it by working that evening. And if you didn’t want to work that evening, well, you got paid for what you did. You earned your money, but that’s what you wanted to do, and that’s how you got better.

Ken Bald (right) and Kurt Schaffenberger, at Kurt’s 80th birthday party a few years back. Courtesy of Dorothy Schaffenberger and Walt Grogan.

From A Barn To Barnabus

stayed in the comic business. He kept working on “Captain Marvel” and “The Marvel Family” for a long time, and then I know he worked for DC doing Superman and Lois Lane for many, many years. I have several of his original covers, which are cute, and which I’m very happy I have. In the war years, I really didn’t see Kurt or hear much about him. As soon as we came back, we were two young married couples, so we saw a lot of each other. At any party we threw, he and his wife Dot were always there. MV: When was the last time you saw Kurt? [NOTE: Schaffenberger died at age 81 on Jan. 24, 2002. —PCH.] BALD: That was at his 80th birthday party that Dot threw. He seemed fine then. Looked the same. He was a very good-looking man. He remained so until the end, I guess, until everything just fell apart on the poor guy. But that was in December of 2000. I’m so glad I got to see him again.

Missing a Back Issue? Got a hole in your Mr. Monster collection? We’ll gladly e-mail you a free Mr. Monster EEEK-Mail Catalog! Just Contact Michael T. Gilbert at:

MGILBERT@EFN.ORG

For a printed version, send one dollar to Michael T. Gilbert, P.O. Box 11421, Eugene OR 97440

Edited by ROY THOMAS

DIGITAL

The greatest ‘zine of the 1960s is back, ALL-NEW, and focusing on GOLDEN AND SILVER AGE comics and creators with NS EDITIO BLE ARTICLES, INTERVIEWS, A IL AVA NLY UNSEEN ART, P.C. Hamerlinck’s FOR O 5 FCA (Fawcett Collectors of $2.9 America, featuring the archives of C.C. BECK and recollections by Fawcett artist MARCUS SWAYZE), Michael T. Gilbert’s MR. MONSTER, and more!

EISNER AWARD WINNER for Best Comics-Related Periodical

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ALTER EGO #4

ALTER EGO #5

ALTER EGO #1

ALTER EGO #2

ALTER EGO #3

STAN LEE gets roasted by SCHWARTZ, CLAREMONT, DAVID, ROMITA, BUSCEMA, and SHOOTER, ORDWAY and THOMAS on INFINITY, INC., IRWIN HASEN interview, unseen H.G. PETER Wonder Woman pages, the original Captain Marvel and Human Torch teamup, FCA with MARC SWAYZE, “Mr. Monster”, plus plenty of rare and unpublished art!

Featuring a never-reprinted SPIRIT story by WILL EISNER, the genesis of the SILVER AGE ATOM (with GARDNER FOX, GIL KANE, and JULIE SCHWARTZ), interviews with LARRY LIEBER and Golden Age great JACK BURNLEY, BOB KANIGHER, a new Fawcett Collectors of America section with MARC SWAYZE, C.C. BECK, and more! GIL KANE and JACK BURNLEY flip-covers!

Unseen ALEX ROSS and JERRY ORDWAY Shazam! art, 1953 interview with OTTO BINDER, the SUPERMAN/CAPTAIN MARVEL LAWSUIT, GIL KANE on The Golden Age of TIMELY COMICS, FCA with SWAYZE, BECK, and SCHAFFENBERGER, rare art by AYERS, BERG, BURNLEY, DITKO, RICO, SCHOMBURG, MARIE SEVERIN and more! ALEX ROSS & BILL EVERETT covers!

(80-page magazine) SOLD OUT (Digital Edition) $2.95

(100-page magazine) $5.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

ALTER EGO #6

ALTER EGO #7

ALTER EGO #8

Interviews with KUBERT, SHELLY MOLDOFF, and HARRY LAMPERT, BOB KANIGHER, life and times of GARDNER FOX, ROY THOMAS remembers GIL KANE, a history of Flash Comics, MOEBIUS Silver Surfer sketches, MR. MONSTER, FCA section with SWAYZE, BECK, and SCHAFFENBERGER, and lots more! Dual color covers by JOE KUBERT!

Celebrating the JSA, with interviews with MART NODELL, SHELLY MAYER, GEORGE ROUSSOS, BILL BLACK, and GIL KANE, unpublished H.G. PETER Wonder Woman art, GARDNER FOX, an FCA section with MARC SWAYZE, C.C. BECK, WENDELL CROWLEY, and more! Wraparound cover by CARMINE INFANTINO and JERRY ORDWAY!

GENE COLAN interview, 1940s books on comics by STAN LEE and ROBERT KANIGHER, AYERS, SEVERIN, and ROY THOMAS on Sgt. Fury, ROY on All-Star Squadron’s Golden Age roots, FCA section with SWAYZE, BECK, and WILLIAM WOOLFOLK, JOE SIMON interview, a definitive look at MAC RABOY’S work, and more! Covers by COLAN and RABOY!

Companion to ALL-STAR COMPANION book, with a JULIE SCHWARTZ interview, guide to JLA-JSA TEAMUPS, origins of the ALL-STAR SQUADRON, FCA section with MARC SWAYZE, C.C. BECK (on his 1970s DC conflicts), DAVE BERG, BOB ROGERS, more on MAC RABOY from his son, MR. MONSTER, and more! RICH BUCKLER and C.C. BECK covers!

WALLY WOOD biography, DAN ADKINS & BILL PEARSON on Wood, TOR section with 1963 JOE KUBERT interview, ROY THOMAS on creating the ALL-STAR SQUADRON and its 1940s forebears, FCA section with SWAYZE & BECK, MR. MONSTER, JERRY ORDWAY on Shazam!, JERRY DeFUCCIO on the Golden Age, CHIC STONE remembered! ADKINS and KUBERT covers!

(100-page magazine) $5.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

(100-page magazine) SOLD OUT (Digital Edition) $2.95

(100-page magazine) $5.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

ALTER EGO #9

ALTER EGO #10

ALTER EGO #11

ALTER EGO #12

ALTER EGO #13

JOHN ROMITA interview by ROY THOMAS (with unseen art), Roy’s PROPOSED DREAM PROJECTS that never got published (with a host of great artists), MR. MONSTER on WAYNE BORING’S life after Superman, The Golden Age of Comic Fandom Panel, FCA section with GEORGE TUSKA, C.C. BECK, MARC SWAYZE, BILL MORRISON, & more! ROMITA and GIORDANO covers!

Who Created the Silver Age Flash? (with KANIGHER, INFANTINO, KUBERT, and SCHWARTZ), DICK AYERS interview (with unseen art), JOHN BROOME remembered, never-seen Golden Age Flash pages, VIN SULLIVAN Magazine Enterprises interview, FCA, interview with FRED GUARDINEER, and MR. MONSTER on WAYNE BORING! INFANTINO and AYERS covers!

Focuses on TIMELY/MARVEL (interviews and features on SYD SHORES, MICKEY SPILLANE, and VINCE FAGO), and MAGAZINE ENTERPRISES (including JOE CERTA, JOHN BELFI, FRANK BOLLE, BOB POWELL, and FRED MEAGHER), MR. MONSTER on JERRY SIEGEL, DON and MAGGIE THOMPSON interview, FCA with SWAYZE, BECK, and DON NEWTON!

DC and QUALITY COMICS focus! Quality’s GILL FOX interview, never-seen ‘40s PAUL REINMAN Green Lantern story, ROY THOMAS talks to LEN WEIN and RICH BUCKLER about ALL-STAR SQUADRON, MR. MONSTER shows what made WALLY WOOD leave MAD, FCA section with BECK & SWAYZE, & ‘65 NEWSWEEK ARTICLE on comics! REINMAN and BILL WARD covers!

1974 panel with JOE SIMON, STAN LEE, FRANK ROBBINS, and ROY THOMAS, ROY and JOHN BUSCEMA on Avengers, 1964 STAN LEE interview, tributes to DON HECK, JOHNNY CRAIG, and GRAY MORROW, Timely alums DAVID GANTZ and DANIEL KEYES, and FCA with BECK, SWAYZE, and MIKE MANLEY! Covers by MURPHY ANDERSON and JOE SIMON!

(100-page magazine) $5.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

ALTER EGO #14

ALTER EGO #15

ALTER EGO #16

ALTER EGO #17

ALTER EGO #18

A look at the 1970s JSA revival with CONWAY, LEVITZ, ESTRADA, GIFFEN, MILGROM, and STATON, JERRY ORDWAY on All-Star Squadron, tributes to CRAIG CHASE and DAN DeCARLO, “lost” 1945 issue of All-Star, 1970 interview with LEE ELIAS, MR. MONSTER on GARDNER FOX, FCA with SWAYZE, BECK, & JAY DISBROW! MIKE NASSER & MICHAEL GILBERT covers!

JOHN BUSCEMA ISSUE! BUSCEMA interview (with UNSEEN ART), reminiscences by SAL BUSCEMA, STAN LEE, INFANTINO, KUBERT, ORDWAY, FLO STEINBERG, and HERB TRIMPE, ROY THOMAS on 35 years with BIG JOHN, FCA tribute to KURT SCHAFFENBERGER, plus C.C. BECK and MARC SWAYZE, and MR. MONSTER revisits WALLY WOOD! Two BUSCEMA covers!

MARVEL BULLPEN REUNION (BUSCEMA, COLAN, ROMITA, and SEVERIN), memories of the JOHN BUSCEMA SCHOOL, FCA with ALEX ROSS, C.C. BECK, and MARC SWAYZE, tribute to CHAD GROTHKOPF, MR. MONSTER on EC COMICS with art by KURTZMAN, DAVIS, and WOOD, and more! Covers by ALEX ROSS and MARIE SEVERIN & RAMONA FRADON!

Spotlighting LOU FINE (with an overview of his career, and interviews with family members), interview with MURPHY ANDERSON about Fine, ALEX TOTH on Fine, ARNOLD DRAKE interviewed about DEADMAN and DOOM PATROL, MR. MONSTER on the non-EC work of JACK DAVIS and GEORGE EVANS, FINE and LUIS DOMINGUEZ COVERS, FCA and more!

STAN GOLDBERG interview, secrets of ‘40s Timely, art by KIRBY, DITKO, ROMITA, BUSCEMA, MANEELY, EVERETT, BURGOS, and DeCARLO, spotlight on sci-fi fanzine XERO with the LUPOFFS, OTTO BINDER, DON THOMPSON, ROY THOMAS, BILL SCHELLY, and ROGER EBERT, FCA, and MR. MONSTER on WALLY WOOD ghosting Flash Gordon! KIRBY and SWAYZE covers!

(100-page magazine) $5.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

(108-page magazine) $5.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

ALTER EGO #19

ALTER EGO #20

ALTER EGO #21

ALTER EGO #22

ALTER EGO #23

Spotlight on DICK SPRANG (profile and interview) with unseen art, rare Batman art by BOB KANE, CHARLES PARIS, SHELLY MOLDOFF, MAX ALLAN COLLINS, JIM MOONEY, CARMINE INFANTINO, and ALEX TOTH, JERRY ROBINSON interviewed about Tomahawk and 1940s cover artist FRED RAY, FCA, and MR. MONSTER on WALLY WOOD’s Flash Gordon, Part 2!

Timely/Marvel art by SEKOWSKY, SHORES, EVERETT, and BURGOS, secrets behind THE INVADERS with ROY THOMAS, KIRBY, GIL KANE, & ROBBINS, BOB DESCHAMPS interviewed, 1965 NY Comics Con review, panel with FINGER, BINDER, FOX and WEISINGER, MR. MONSTER, FCA with SWAYZE, BECK, RABOY, SCHAFFENBERGER, and more! MILGROM and SCHELLY covers!

The IGER “SHOP” examined, with art by EISNER, FINE, ANDERSON, CRANDALL, BAKER, MESKIN, CARDY, EVANS, BOB KANE, and TUSKA, “SHEENA” section with art by DAVE STEVENS & FRANK BRUNNER, ROY THOMAS on JSA & All-Star Squadron, MR. MONSTER on GARDNER FOX, UNSEEN 1946 ALL-STAR ART, FCA, and more! DAVE STEVENS and IRWIN HASEN covers!

BILL EVERETT and JOE KUBERT interviewed by NEAL ADAMS and GIL KANE in 1970, Timely art by BURGOS, SHORES, NODELL, and SEKOWSKY, RUDY LAPICK, ROY THOMAS on Sub-Mariner, with art by EVERETT, COLAN, ANDRU, BUSCEMAs, SEVERINs, and more, FCA, MR. MONSTER on WALLY WOOD at EC, ALEX TOTH, and CAPT. MIDNIGHT! EVERETT & BECK covers!

Unseen art from TWO “LOST” 1940s H.G. PETER WONDER WOMAN STORIES (and analysis of “CHARLES MOULTON” scripts), BOB FUJITANI and JOHN ROSENBERGER, VICTOR GORELICK discusses Archie and The Mighty Crusaders, with art by MORROW, BUCKLER, and REINMAN, FCA, and MR. MONSTER on WALLY WOOD! H.G. PETER and BOB FUJITANI covers!

(108-page magazine) $5.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

ALTER EGO #24

ALTER EGO #25

ALTER EGO #26

ALTER EGO #27

ALTER EGO #28

X-MEN interviews with STAN LEE, DAVE COCKRUM, CHRIS CLAREMONT, ARNOLD DRAKE, JIM SHOOTER, ROY THOMAS, and LEN WEIN, MORT MESKIN profiled by his sons and ALEX TOTH, rare art by JERRY ROBINSON, FCA with BECK, SWAYZE, and WILLIAM WOOLFOLK, MR. MONSTER, and BILL SCHELLY on Comics Fandom! MESKIN and COCKRUM covers!

JACK COLE remembered by ALEX TOTH, interview with brother DICK COLE and his PLAYBOY colleagues, CHRIS CLAREMONT on the X-Men (with more never-seen art by DAVE COCKRUM), ROY THOMAS on AllStar Squadron #1 and its ‘40s roots (with art by ORDWAY, BUCKLER, MESKIN and MOLDOFF), FCA, MR. MONSTER, and more! Covers by TOTH and SCHELLY!

JOE SINNOTT interview, IRWIN DONENFELD interview by EVANIER & SCHWARTZ, art by SHUSTER, INFANTINO, ANDERSON, and SWAN, MARK WAID analyzes the first Kryptonite story, JERRY SIEGEL and HARRY DONENFELD, JERRY IGER Shop update, ALEX TOTH, MR. MONSTER, and FCA with SWAYZE, BECK, and KEN BALD! Covers by SINNOTT and WAYNE BORING!

VIN SULLIVAN interview about the early DC days with art by SHUSTER, MOLDOFF, FLESSEL, GUARDINEER, and BURNLEY, MR. MONSTER’s “Lost” KIRBY HULK covers, 1948 NEW YORK COMIC CON with STAN LEE, SIMON & KIRBY, JULIUS SCHWARTZ, HARVEY KURTZMAN, and ROY THOMAS, ALEX TOTH, FCA, and more! Covers by JACK BURNLEY and JACK KIRBY!

Spotlight on JOE MANEELY, with a career overview, remembrance by his daughter and tons of art, Timely/Atlas/Marvel art by ROMITA, EVERETT, SEVERIN, SHORES, KIRBY, and DITKO, STAN LEE on Maneely, LEE AMES interview, FCA with SWAYZE, ISIS, and STEVE SKEATES, MR. MONSTER, BILL SCHELLY, and more! Covers by JOE MANEELY and DON NEWTON!

(108-page magazine) $5.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

ALTER EGO #29

ALTER EGO #30

ALTER EGO #31

ALTER EGO #32

ALTER EGO #33

FRANK BRUNNER interview, BILL EVERETT’S Venus examined by TRINA ROBBINS, Classics Illustrated “What ifs”, LEE/KIRBY/DITKO Marvel prototypes, JOE MANEELY’s monsters, BILL FRACCIO interview, ALEX TOTH, MR. MONSTER, JOHN BENSON on EC, The Heap by ERNIE SCHROEDER, and FCA! Covers by FRANK BRUNNER and PETE VON SHOLLY!

ALEX ROSS on his love for the JLA, BLACKHAWK/JLA artist DICK DILLIN, the super-heroes of 1940s-1980s France (with art by STEVE RUDE, STEVE BISSETTE, LADRÖNN, and NEAL ADAMS), KIM AAMODT & WALTER GEIER on writing for SIMON & KIRBY, ALEX TOTH, MR. MONSTER, and FCA! Covers by ALEX ROSS and STEVE RUDE!

DICK AYERS on his 1950s and ‘60s work (with tons of Marvel Bullpen art), HARLAN ELLISON’s Marvel Age work examined (with art by BUCKLER, SAL BUSCEMA, and TRIMPE), STAN LEE’S Marvel Prototypes (with art by KIRBY and DITKO), Christmas cards from comics greats, MR. MONSTER, & FCA with SWAYZE and SCHAFFENBERGER! Covers by DICK AYERS and FRED RAY!

Timely artists ALLEN BELLMAN and SAM BURLOCKOFF interviewed, MART NODELL on his Timely years, rare art by BURGOS, EVERETT, and SHORES, MIKE GOLD on the Silver Age (with art by SIMON & KIRBY, SWAN, INFANTINO, KANE, and more), FCA, ALEX TOTH, BILL SCHELLY on comics fandom, and more! Covers by DICK GIORDANO and GIL KANE!

Symposium on MIKE SEKOWSKY by MARK EVANIER, SCOTT SHAW!, et al., with art by ANDERSON, INFANTINO, and others, PAT (MRS. MIKE) SEKOWSKY and inker VALERIE BARCLAY interviewed, FCA, 1950s Captain Marvel parody by ANDRU and ESPOSITO, ALEX TOTH, BILL SCHELLY, MR. MONSTER, and more! Covers by FRENZ/SINNOTT and FRENZ/BUSCEMA!

(108-page magazine) $5.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

(108-page magazine) SOLD OUT (Digital Edition) $2.95

(108-page magazine) $5.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

ALTER EGO #34

ALTER EGO #35

ALTER EGO #36

ALTER EGO #37

ALTER EGO #38

Quality Comics interviews with ALEX KOTZKY, AL GRENET, CHUCK CUIDERA, & DICK ARNOLD (son of BUSY ARNOLD), art by COLE, EISNER, FINE, WARD, DILLIN, and KANE, MICHELLE NOLAN on Blackhawk’s jump to DC, FCA, MICHAEL T. GILBERT on HARVEY KURTZMAN, & ALEX TOTH on REED CRANDALL! Covers by REED CRANDALL & CHARLES NICHOLAS!

Covers by JOHN ROMITA and AL JAFFEE! LEE, ROMITA, AYERS, HEATH, & THOMAS on the 1953-55 Timely super-hero revival, with rare art by ROMITA, AYERS, BURGOS, HEATH, EVERETT, LAWRENCE, & POWELL, AL JAFFEE on the 1940s Timely Bullpen (and MAD), FCA, ALEX TOTH on comic art, MR. MONSTER on unpublished 1950s covers, and more!

JOE SIMON on SIMON & KIRBY, CARL BURGOS, and LLOYD JACQUET, JOHN BELL on World War II Canadian heroes, MICHAEL T. GILBERT on Canadian origins of MR. MONSTER, tributes to BOB DESCHAMPS, DON LAWRENCE, & GEORGE WOODBRIDGE, FCA, ALEX TOTH, and ELMER WEXLER interview! Covers by SIMON and GILBERT & RONN SUTTON!

WILL MURRAY on the 1940 Superman “KMetal” story & PHILIP WYLIE’s GLADIATOR (with art by SHUSTER, SWAN, ADAMS, and BORING), FCA with BECK, SWAYZE, and DON NEWTON, SY BARRY interview, art by TOTH, MESKIN, INFANTINO, and ANDERSON, and MICHAEL T. GILBERT interviews AL FELDSTEIN on EC and RAY BRADBURY! Covers by C.C. BECK and WAYNE BORING!

JULIE SCHWARTZ TRIBUTE with HARLAN ELLISON, INFANTINO, ANDERSON, TOTH, KUBERT, GIELLA, GIORDANO, CARDY, LEVITZ, STAN LEE, WOLFMAN, EVANIER, & ROY THOMAS, never-seen interviews with Julie, FCA with BECK, SCHAFFENBERGER, NEWTON, COCKRUM, OKSNER, FRADON, SWAYZE, and JACKSON BOSTWICK! Covers by INFANTINO and IRWIN HASEN!

(108-page magazine) $5.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

ALTER EGO #39

ALTER EGO #40

ALTER EGO #41

ALTER EGO #42

ALTER EGO #43

Full-issue spotlight on JERRY ROBINSON, with an interview on being BOB KANE’s Batman “ghost”, creating the JOKER and ROBIN, working on VIGILANTE, GREEN HORNET, and ATOMAN, plus never-seen art by Jerry, MESKIN, ROUSSOS, RAY, KIRBY, SPRANG, DITKO, and PARIS! Plus FCA, MR. MONSTER on AL FELDSTEIN Part 2, and more! Two JERRY ROBINSON covers!

RUSS HEATH and GIL KANE interviews (with tons of unseen art), the JULIE SCHWARTZ Memorial Service with ELLISON, MOORE, GAIMAN, HASEN, O’NEIL, and LEVITZ, art by INFANTINO, ANDERSON, TOTH, NOVICK, DILLIN, SEKOWSKY, KUBERT, GIELLA, ARAGONÉS, FCA, MR. MONSTER and AL FELDSTEIN Part 3, and more! Covers by GIL KANE & RUSS HEATH!

Halloween issue! BERNIE WRIGHTSON on his 1970s FRANKENSTEIN, DICK BRIEFER’S monster, the campy 1960s Frankie, art by KALUTA, BAILY, MANEELY, PLOOG, KUBERT, BRUNNER, BORING, OKSNER, TUSKA, CRANDALL, and SUTTON, FCA #100, EMILIO SQUEGLIO interview, ALEX TOTH, MICHAEL T. GILBERT, and more! Covers by WRIGHTSON & MARC SWAYZE!

A celebration of DON HECK, WERNER ROTH, and PAUL REINMAN, rare art by KIRBY, DITKO, and AYERS, Hillman and Ziff-Davis remembered by Heap artist ERNIE SCHROEDER, HERB ROGOFF, and WALTER LITTMAN, FCA with MARC SWAYZE, MR. MONSTER, BILL SCHELLY, and ALEX TOTH! Covers by FASTNER & LARSON and ERNIE SCHROEDER!

Yuletide art by WOOD, SINNOTT, CARDY, BRUNNER, TOTH, NODELL, and others, interviews with Golden Age artists TOM GILL (Lone Ranger) and MORRIS WEISS, exploring 1960s Mexican comics, FCA with MARC SWAYZE and C.C. BECK, MR. MONSTER, ALEX TOTH, BILL SCHELLY on comics fandom, and more! Flip covers by GEORGE TUSKA and DAVE STEVENS!

(108-page magazine) $5.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

ALTER EGO #44

ALTER EGO #45

ALTER EGO #46

ALTER EGO #47

ALTER EGO #48

JSA/All-Star Squadron/Infinity Inc. special! Interviews with KUBERT, HASEN, ANDERSON, ORDWAY, BUCKLER, THOMAS, 1940s Atom writer ARTHUR ADLER, art by TOTH, SEKOWSKY, HASEN, MACHLAN, OKSNER, and INFANTINO, FCA, and MR. MONSTER’S “I Like Ike!” cartoons by BOB KANE, INFANTINO, OKSNER, and BIRO! Wraparound ORDWAY cover!

Interviews with Sandman artist CREIG FLESSEL and ‘40s creator BERT CHRISTMAN, MICHAEL CHABON on researching his Pulitzer-winning novel Kavalier & Clay, art by EISNER, KANE, KIRBY, and AYERS, FCA with MARC SWAYZE and C.C. BECK, OTTO BINDER’s “lost” Jon Jarl story, MR. MONSTER, BILL SCHELLY on comics fandom, and ALEX TOTH! CREIG FLESSEL cover!

The VERY BEST of the 1960s-70s ALTER EGO! 1969 BILL EVERETT interview, art by BURGOS, GUSTAVSON, SIMON & KIRBY, and others, 1960s gems by DITKO, E. NELSON BRIDWELL, JERRY BAILS, and ROY THOMAS, LOU GLANZMAN interview, tributes to IRV NOVICK and CHRIS REEVE, MR. MONSTER, FCA, TOTH, and more! Cover by EVERETT and MARIE SEVERIN!

Spotlights MATT BAKER, Golden Age cheesecake artist of PHANTOM LADY! Career overview, interviews with BAKER’s half-brother and nephew, art from AL FELDSTEIN, VINCE COLLETTA, ARTHUR PEDDY, JACK KAMEN and others, FCA, BILL SCHELLY talks to comic-book-seller (and fan) BUD PLANT, MR. MONSTER on missing AL WILLIAMSON art, and ALEX TOTH!

WILL EISNER discusses Eisner & Iger’s Shop and BUSY ARNOLD’s ‘40s Quality Comics, art by FINE, CRANDALL, COLE, POWELL, and CARDY, EISNER tributes by STAN LEE, GENE COLAN, & others, interviews with ‘40s Quality artist VERN HENKEL and CHUCK MAZOUJIAN, FCA, MR. MONSTER on EISNER’s Wonder Man, ALEX TOTH, and more with BUD PLANT! EISNER cover!

(100-page magazine) SOLD OUT (Digital Edition) $2.95

(100-page magazine) $5.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

ALTER EGO #49

ALTER EGO #50

ALTER EGO #51

ALTER EGO #52

ALTER EGO #53

Spotlights CARL BURGOS! Interview with daughter SUE BURGOS, art by BURGOS, BILL EVERETT, MIKE SEKOWSKY, ED ASCHE, and DICK AYERS, unused 1941 Timely cover layouts, the 1957 Atlas Implosion examined, MANNY STALLMAN, FCA, MR. MONSTER and more! New cover by MARK SPARACIO, from an unused 1941 layout by CARL BURGOS!

ROY THOMAS covers his 40-YEAR career in comics (AVENGERS, X-MEN, CONAN, ALL-STAR SQUADRON, INFINITY INC.), with ADAMS, BUSCEMA, COLAN, DITKO, GIL KANE, KIRBY, STAN LEE, ORDWAY, PÉREZ, ROMITA, and many others! Also FCA, & MR. MONSTER on ROY’s letters to GARDNER FOX! Flip-covers by BUSCEMA/ KIRBY/ALCALA and JERRY ORDWAY!

Golden Age Batman artist/BOB KANE ghost LEW SAYRE SCHWARTZ interviewed, Batman art by JERRY ROBINSON, DICK SPRANG, SHELDON MOLDOFF, WIN MORTIMER, JIM MOONEY, and others, the Golden and Silver Ages of AUSTRALIAN SUPER-HEROES, Mad artist DAVE BERG interviewed, FCA, MR. MONSTER on WILL EISNER, BILL SCHELLY, and more!

JOE GIELLA on the Silver Age at DC, the Golden Age at Marvel, and JULIE SCHWARTZ, with rare art by INFANTINO, GIL KANE, SEKOWSKY, SWAN, DILLIN, MOLDOFF, GIACOIA, SCHAFFENBERGER, and others, JAY SCOTT PIKE on STAN LEE and CHARLES BIRO, MARTIN THALL interview, ALEX TOTH, MR. MONSTER, BILL SCHELLY, and more! GIELLA cover!

GIORDANO and THOMAS on STOKER’S DRACULA, never-seen DICK BRIEFER Frankenstein strip, MIKE ESPOSITO on his work with ROSS ANDRU, art by COLAN, WRIGHTSON, MIGNOLA, BRUNNER, BISSETTE, KALUTA, HEATH, MANEELY, EVERETT, DITKO, FCA with MARC SWAYZE, BILL SCHELLY, ALEX TOTH, and MR. MONSTER! Cover by GIORDANO!

(100-page magazine) $5.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

(100-page magazine) $6.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

ALTER EGO #54

ALTER EGO #55

ALTER EGO #56

ALTER EGO #57

ALTER EGO #58

MIKE ESPOSITO on DC and Marvel, ROBERT KANIGHER on the creation of Metal Men and Sgt. Rock (with comments by JOE KUBERT and BOB HANEY), art by ANDRU, INFANTINO, KIRBY, SEVERIN, WINDSOR-SMITH, ROMITA, BUSCEMA, TRIMPE, GIL KANE, and others, plus FCA, ALEX TOTH, BILL SCHELLY, MR. MONSTER, and more! ESPOSITO cover!

JACK and OTTO BINDER, KEN BALD, VIC DOWD, and BOB BOYAJIAN interviewed, FCA with SWAYZE and EMILIO SQUEGLIO, rare art by BECK, WARD, & SCHAFFENBERGER, Christmas Cards from CRANDALL, SINNOTT, HEATH, MOONEY, and CARDY, 1943 Pin-Up Calendar (with ‘40s movie stars as superheroines), ALEX TOTH, more! ALEX ROSS and ALEX WRIGHT covers!

Interviews with Superman creators SIEGEL & SHUSTER, Golden/Silver Age DC production guru JACK ADLER interviewed, NEAL ADAMS and radio/TV iconoclast (and comics fan) HOWARD STERN on Adler and his amazing career, art by CURT SWAN, WAYNE BORING, and AL PLASTINO, plus FCA, MR. MONSTER, ALEX TOTH, and more! NEAL ADAMS cover!

Issue-by-issue index of Timely/Atlas superhero stories by MICHELLE NOLAN, art by SIMON & KIRBY, EVERETT, BURGOS, ROMITA, AYERS, HEATH, SEKOWSKY, SHORES, SCHOMBURG, MANEELY, and SEVERIN, GENE COLAN and ALLEN BELLMAN on 1940s Timely super-heroes, FCA, MR. MONSTER, and BILL SCHELLY! Cover by JACK KIRBY and PETE VON SHOLLY!

GERRY CONWAY and ROY THOMAS on their ‘80s screenplay for “The X-Men Movie That Never Was!”with art by COCKRUM, ADAMS, BUSCEMA, BYRNE, GIL KANE, KIRBY, HECK, and LIEBER, Atlas artist VIC CARRABOTTA interview, ALLEN BELLMAN on 1940s Timely bullpen, FCA, 1966 panel on 1950s EC Comics, and MR. MONSTER! MARK SPARACIO/GIL KANE cover!

(100-page magazine) $6.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

ALTER EGO #59

ALTER EGO #60

ALTER EGO #61

ALTER EGO #62

ALTER EGO #63

Special issue on Batman and Superman in the Golden and Silver Ages, featuring a new ARTHUR SUYDAM interview, NEAL ADAMS on DC in the 1960s-1970s, SHELLY MOLDOFF, AL PLASTINO, Golden Age artist FRAN (Doll Man) MATERA interviewed, SIEGEL & SHUSTER, RUSS MANNING, FCA, MR. MONSTER, SUYDAM cover, and more!

Celebrates 50 years since SHOWCASE #4! FLASH interviews with SCHWARTZ, KANIGHER, INFANTINO, KUBERT, and BROOME, Golden Age artist TONY DiPRETA, 1966 panel with NORDLING, BINDER, and LARRY IVIE, FCA, MR. MONSTER, never-before-published color Flash cover by CARMINE INFANTINO, and more!

History of the AMERICAN COMICS GROUP (1946 to 1967)—including its roots in the Golden Age SANGOR ART SHOP and STANDARD/NEDOR comics! Art by MESKIN, ROBINSON, WILLIAMSON, FRAZETTA, SCHAFFENBERGER, & BUSCEMA, ACG writer/editor RICHARD HUGHES, plus AL HARTLEY interviewed, FCA, MR. MONSTER, and more! GIORDANO cover!

HAPPY HAUNTED HALLOWEEN ISSUE, featuring: MIKE PLOOG and RUDY PALAIS on their horror-comics work! AL WILLIAMSON on his work for the American Comics Group—plus more on ACG horror comics! Rare DICK BRIEFER Frankenstein strips! Plus FCA, MR. MONSTER, BILL SCHELLY on the 1966 KalerCon, a new PLOOG cover—and more!

Tribute to ALEX TOTH! Never-before-seen interview with tons of TOTH art, including sketches he sent to friends! Articles about Toth by TERRY AUSTIN, JIM AMASH, SY BARRY, JOE KUBERT, LOU SAYRE SCHWARTZ, IRWIN HASEN, JOHN WORKMAN, and others! Plus illustrated Christmas cards by comics pros, FCA, MR. MONSTER, and more!

(100-page magazine) $6.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

ALTER EGO #64

ALTER EGO #65

ALTER EGO #66

ALTER EGO #67

ALTER EGO #68

Fawcett Favorites! Issue-by-issue analysis of BINDER & BECK’s 1943-45 “The Monster Society of Evil!” serial, double-size FCA section with MARC SWAYZE, EMILIO SQUEGLIO, C.C. BECK, MAC RABOY, and others! Interview with MARTIN FILCHOCK, Golden Age artist for Centaur Comics! Plus MR. MONSTER, DON NEWTON cover, plus a FREE 1943 MARVEL CALENDAR!

NICK CARDY interviewed on his Golden & Silver Age work (with CARDY art), plus art by WILL EISNER, NEAL ADAMS, CARMINE INFANTINO, JIM APARO, RAMONA FRADON, CURT SWAN, MIKE SEKOWSKY, and others, tributes to ERNIE SCHROEDER and DAVE COCKRUM, FCA with MARC SWAYZE, MICHAEL T. GILBERT and MR. MONSTER, new CARDY COVER, and more!

Spotlight on BOB POWELL, the artist who drew Daredevil, Sub-Mariner, Sheena, The Avenger, The Hulk, Giant-Man, and others, plus art by WALLY WOOD, HOWARD NOSTRAND, DICK AYERS, SIMON & KIRBY, MARTIN GOODMAN’s Magazine Management, and others! FCA with MARC SWAYZE and C.C. BECK, MICHAEL T. GILBERT and MR. MONSTER, and more!

Interview with BOB OKSNER, artist of Supergirl, Jimmy Olsen, Lois Lane, Angel and the Ape, Leave It to Binky, Shazam!, and more, plus art and artifacts by SHELLY MAYER, IRWIN HASEN, LEE ELIAS, C.C. BECK, CARMINE INFANTINO, GIL KANE, JULIE SCHWARTZ, etc., FCA with MARC SWAYZE & C.C. BECK, MICHAEL T. GILBERT on BOB POWELL Part II, and more!

Tribute to JERRY BAILS—Father of Comics Fandom and founder of Alter Ego! Cover by GEORGE PÉREZ, plus art by JOE KUBERT, CARMINE INFANTINO, GIL KANE, DICK DILLIN, MIKE SEKOWSKY, JERRY ORDWAY, JOE STATON, JACK KIRBY, and others! Plus STEVE DITKO’s notes to STAN LEE for a 1965 Dr. Strange story! And ROY reveals secrets behind Marvel’s STAR WARS comic!

(100-page magazine) $6.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

ALTER EGO #69

ALTER EGO #70

ALTER EGO #71

ALTER EGO #72

ALTER EGO #73

PAUL NORRIS drew AQUAMAN first, in 1941—and RAMONA FRADON was the hero’s ultimate Golden Age artist. But both drew other things as well, and both are interviewed in this landmark issue—along with a pocket history of Aquaman! Plus FCA, MICHAEL T. GILBERT, and more! Cover painted by JOHN WATSON, from a breathtaking illo by RAMONA FRADON!

Spotlight on ROY THOMAS’ 1970s stint as Marvel’s editor-in-chief and major writer, plus art and reminiscences of GIL KANE, BOTH BUSCEMAS, ADAMS, ROMITA, CHAYKIN, BRUNNER, PLOOG, EVERETT, WRIGHTSON, PÉREZ, ROBBINS, BARRY SMITH, STAN LEE and others, FCA, MR. MONSTER, a new GENE COLAN cover, plus an homage to artist LILY RENÉE!

Represents THE GREAT CANADIAN COMIC BOOKS, the long out-of-print 1970s book by MICHAEL HIRSH and PATRICK LOUBERT, with rare art of such heroes as Mr. Monster, Nelvana, Thunderfist, and others, plus new INVADERS art by JOHN BYRNE, MIKE GRELL, RON LIM, and more, plus a new cover by GEORGE FREEMAN, from a layout by JACK KIRBY!

SCOTT SHAW! and ROY THOMAS on the creation of Captain Carrot, art & artifacts by RICK HOBERG, STAN GOLDBERG, MIKE SEKOWSKY, JOHN COSTANZA, E. NELSON BRIDWELL, CAROL LAY, and others, interview with DICK ROCKWELL, Golden Age artist and 36-year ghost artist on MILTON CANIFF’s Steve Canyon! Plus FCA, MR. MONSTER, and more!

FRANK BRUNNER on drawing Dr. Strange, interviews with CHARLES BIRO and his daughters, interview with publisher ROBERT GERSON about his 1970s horror comic Reality, art by BERNIE WRIGHTSON, GRAHAM INGELS, HOWARD CHAYKIN, MICHAEL W. KALUTA, JEFF JONES, and others FCA, MR. MONSTER, a FREE DRAW! #15! PREVIEW, and more!

(100-page magazine) $6.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

ALTER EGO #74

ALTER EGO #75

ALTER EGO #76

ALTER EGO #77

ALTER EGO #78

STAN LEE SPECIAL in honor of his 85th birthday, with a cover by JACK KIRBY, classic (and virtually unseen) interviews with Stan, tributes, and tons of rare and unseen art by KIRBY, ROMITA, the brothers BUSCEMA, DITKO, COLAN, HECK, AYERS, MANEELY, SHORES, EVERETT, BURGOS, KANE, the SEVERIN siblings—plus FCA, MR. MONSTER, and more!

FAWCETT FESTIVAL—with an ALEX ROSS cover! Double-size FCA (Fawcett Collectors of America) with P.C. HAMERLINCK on the many “Captains Marvel” over the years, unseen Shazam! proposal by ALEX ROSS, C.C. BECK on “The Death of a Legend!”, MARC SWAYZE, interview with Golden Age artist MARV LEVY, MR. MONSTER, and more!

JOE SIMON SPECIAL! In-depth SIMON interview by JIM AMASH, with neverbefore-revealed secrets behind the creation of Captain America, Fighting American, Stuntman, Adventures of The Fly, Sick magazine and more, art by JACK KIRBY, BOB POWELL, AL WILLIAMSON, JERRY GRANDENETTI, GEORGE TUSKA, and others, FCA, MR. MONSTER, and more!

ST. JOHN ISSUE! Golden Age Tor cover by JOE KUBERT, KEN QUATTRO relates the full legend of St. John Publishing, art by KUBERT, NORMAN MAURER, MATT BAKER, LILY RENEE, BOB LUBBERS, RUBEN MOREIRA, RALPH MAYO, AL FAGO, special reminiscences of ARNOLD DRAKE, Golden Age artist TOM SAWYER interviewed, and more!

DAVE COCKRUM TRIBUTE! Great rare XMen cover, Cockrum tributes from contemporaries and colleagues, and an interview with PATY COCKRUM on Dave’s life and legacy on The Legion of Super-Heroes, The X-Men, Star-Jammers, & more! Plus an interview with 1950s Timely/Marvel artist MARION SITTON on his own incredible career and his Golden Age contemporaries!

(100-page magazine) $6.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

ALTER EGO #79

ALTER EGO #80

ALTER EGO #81

ALTER EGO #82

ALTER EGO #83

SUPERMAN & HIS CREATORS! New cover by MICHAEL GOLDEN, exclusive and revealing interview with JOE SHUSTER’s sister, JEAN SHUSTER PEAVEY—LOU CAMERON interview—STEVE GERBER tribute—DWIGHT DECKER on the Man of Steel & Hitler’s Third Reich—plus art by WAYNE BORING, CURT SWAN, NEAL ADAMS, GIL KANE, and others!

SWORD-AND-SORCERY COMICS! Learn about Crom the Barbarian, Viking Prince, Nightmaster, Kull, Red Sonja, Solomon Kane, Bran Mak Morn, Fafhrd and Gray Mouser, Beowulf, Warlord, Dagar the Invincible, and more, with art by FRAZETTA, SMITH, BUSCEMA, KANE, WRIGHTSON, PLOOG, THORNE, BRUNNER, LOU CAMERON Part II, and more! Cover by RAFAEL KAYANAN!

New FRANK BRUNNER Man-Thing cover, a look at the late-’60s horror comic WEB OF HORROR with early work by BRUNNER, WRIGHTSON, WINDSOR-SMITH, SIMONSON, & CHAYKIN, interview with comics & fine artist EVERETT RAYMOND KINTSLER, ROY THOMAS’ 1971 origin synopsis for the FIRST MAN-THING STORY, plus FCA, MR. MONSTER, and more!

MLJ ISSUE! Golden Age MLJ index illustrated with vintage images of The Shield, Hangman, Mr. Justice, Black Hood, by IRV NOVICK, JACK COLE, CHARLES BIRO, MORT MESKIN, GIL KANE, & others—behind a marvelous MLJ-heroes cover by BOB McLEOD! Plus interviews with IRV NOVICK and JOE EDWARDS, FCA, MR. MONSTER, and more!

SWORD & SORCERY PART 2! Cover by ARTHUR SUYDAM, with a focus on Conan the Barbarian by ROY THOMAS and WILL MURRAY, a look at WALLY WOOD’s Marvel sword-&-sorcery work, the Black Knight examined, plus JOE EDWARDS interview Part 2, FCA, MICHAEL T. GILBERT and MR. MONSTER, and more!

(100-page magazine) $6.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

ALTER EGO #84

ALTER EGO #85

ALTER EGO #86

ALTER EGO #87

ALTER EGO #88

Unseen JIM APARO cover, STEVE SKEATES discusses his early comics work, art & artifacts by ADKINS, APARO, ARAGONÉS, BOYETTE, DITKO, GIORDANO, KANE, KELLER, MORISI, ORLANDO, SEKOWSKY, STONE, THOMAS, WOOD, and the great WARREN SAVIN! Plus writer CHARLES SINCLAIR on his partnership with Batman co-creator BILL FINGER, FCA, and more!

Captain Marvel and Superman’s battles explored (in cosmic space, candy stores, and in court), RICH BUCKLER on Captain Marvel, plus an in-depth interview with Golden Age great LILY RENÉE, overview of CENTAUR COMICS (home of BILL EVERETT’s Amazing-Man and others), FCA, MR. MONSTER, new RICH BUCKLER cover, and more!

Spotlighting the Frantic Four-Color MAD WANNABES of 1953-55 that copied HARVEY KURTZMAN’S EC smash (see Captain Marble, Mighty Moose, Drag-ula, Prince Scallion, and more) with art by SIMON & KIRBY, KUBERT & MAURER, ANDRU & ESPOSITO, EVERETT, COLAN, and many others, plus Part 1 of a talk with Golden/ Silver Age artist FRANK BOLLE, and more!

The sensational 1954-1963 saga of Great Britain’s MARVELMAN (decades before he metamorphosed into Miracleman), plus an interview with writer/artist/co-creator MICK ANGLO, and rare Marvelman/ Miracleman work by ALAN DAVIS, ALAN MOORE, a new RICK VEITCH cover, plus FRANK BOLLE, Part 2, FCA, MR. MONSTER, and more!

First-ever in-depth look at National/DC’s founder MAJOR MALCOLM WHEELERNICHOLSON, and pioneers WHITNEY ELLSWORTH and CREIG FLESSEL, with rare art and artifacts by SIEGEL & SHUSTER, BOB KANE, CURT SWAN, GARDNER FOX, SHELDON MOLDOFF, and others, focus on DC advisor DR. LAURETTA BENDER, FCA, MR. MONSTER, and more!

(100-page magazine) $6.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

ALTER EGO #89

ALTER EGO #90

ALTER EGO #91

ALTER EGO #92

ALTER EGO #93

HARVEY COMICS’ PRE-CODE HORROR MAGS OF THE 1950s! Interviews with SID JACOBSON, WARREN KREMER, and HOWARD NOSTRAND, plus Harvey artist KEN SELIG talks to JIM AMASH! MR. MONSTER presents the wit and wisdom (and worse) of DR. FREDRIC WERTHAM, plus FCA (Fawcett Collectors of America) with C.C. BECK & MARC SWAYZE, & more! SIMON & KIRBY and NOSTRAND cover!

BIG MARVEL ISSUE! Salutes to legends SINNOTT and AYERS—plus STAN LEE, TUSKA, EVERETT, MARTIN GOODMAN, and others! A look at the “Marvel SuperHeroes” TV animation of 1966! 1940s Timely writer and editor LEON LAZARUS interviewed by JIM AMASH! Plus FCA, MR. MONSTER, the 1960s fandom creations of STEVE GERBER, and more! JACK KIRBY holiday cover!

FAWCETT FESTIVAL! Big FCA section with Golden Age artists MARC SWAYZE & EMILIO SQUEGLIO! Plus JERRY ORDWAY on researching The Power of Shazam, Part II of “The MAD Four-Color Wannabes of the 1950s,” more on DR. LAURETTA BENDER and the teenage creations of STEVE GERBER, artist JACK KATZ spills Golden Age secrets to JIM AMASH, and more! New cover by ORDWAY and SQUEGLIO!

SWORD-AND-SORCERY, PART 3! DC’s Sword of Sorcery by O’NEIL, CHAYKIN, & SIMONSON and Claw by MICHELINIE & CHAN, Hercules by GLANZMAN, Dagar by GLUT & SANTOS, Marvel S&S art by BUSCEMA, CHAN, KAYANAN, WRIGHTSON, et al., and JACK KATZ on his classic First Kingdom! Plus FCA, MR. MONSTER, STEVE GERBER’s fan-creations (part 3), and more! Cover by RAFAEL KAYANAN!

(NOW WITH 16 COLOR PAGES!) “EarthTwo—1961 to 1985!” with rare art by INFANTINO, GIL KANE, ANDERSON, DELBO, ANDRU, BUCKLER, APARO, GRANDENETTI, and DILLIN, interview with Golden/Silver Age DC editor GEORGE KASHDAN, plus MICHAEL T. GILBERT and MR. MONSTER, STEVE GERBER, FCA (Fawcett Collectors of America), and a new cover by INFANTINO and AMASH!

(100-page magazine) $6.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

(84-page magazine with COLOR) $7.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

ALTER EGO #94

ALTER EGO #95

ALTER EGO #96

ALTER EGO #97

ALTER EGO #98

“Earth-Two Companion, Part II!” More on the 1963-1985 series that changed comics forever! The Huntress, Power Girl, Dr. Fate, Freedom Fighters, and more, with art by ADAMS, APARO, AYERS, BUCKLER, GIFFEN, INFANTINO, KANE, NOVICK, SCHAFFENBERGER, SIMONSON, STATON, SWAN, TUSKA, our GEORGE KASHDAN interview Part 2, FCA, and more! STATON & GIORDANO cover!

Marvel’s NOT BRAND ECHH madcap parody mag from 1967-69, examined with rare art & artifacts by ANDRU, COLAN, BUSCEMA, DRAKE, EVERETT, FRIEDRICH, KIRBY, LEE, the SEVERIN siblings, SPRINGER, SUTTON, THOMAS, TRIMPE, and more, GEORGE KASHDAN interview conclusion, FCA, MICHAEL T. GILBERT and MR. MONSTER, and more! Cover by MARIE SEVERIN!

Focus on Archie’s 1960s MIGHTY CRUSADERS, with vintage art and artifacts by JERRY SIEGEL, PAUL REINMAN, SIMON & KIRBY, JOHN ROSENBERGER, tributes to the Mighty Crusaders by BOB FUJITANE, GEORGE TUSKA, BOB LAYTON, and others! Interview with MELL LAZARUS, FCA, MICHAEL T. GILBERT and Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt, and more! Cover by MIKE MACHLAN!

The NON-EC HORROR COMICS OF THE 1950s! From Menace and House of Mystery to The Thing!, we present vintage art and artifacts by EVERETT, BRIEFER, DITKO, MANEELY, COLAN , MESKIN, MOLDOFF, HEATH, POWELL, COLE, SIMON & KIRBY, FUJITANI, and others, plus FCA , MR. MONSTER and more, behind a creepy, eerie cover by BILL EVERETT!

Spotlight on Superman’s first editor WHITNEY ELLSWORTH, longtime Kryptoeditor MORT WEISINGER remembered by his daughter, an interview with Superman writer ALVIN SCHWARTZ, tributes to FRANK FRAZETTA and AL WILLIAMSON, art by JOE SHUSTER, WAYNE BORING, CURT SWAN, and NEAL ADAMS, plus MR. MONSTER, FCA, and a new cover by JERRY ORDWAY!

(84-page magazine with COLOR) $7.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

ALTER EGO: CENTENNIAL (AE #100)

ALTER EGO #99

GEORGE TUSKA showcase issue on his career at Lev Gleason, Marvel, and in comics strips through the early 1970s—CRIME DOES NOT PAY, BUCK ROGERS, IRON MAN, AVENGERS, HERO FOR HIRE, & more! Plus interviews with Golden Age artist BILL BOSSERT and fan-artist RUDY FRANKE, MR. MONSTER’S COMIC CRYPT, FCA (Fawcett Collectors of America), and more! (84-page magazine with COLOR) $7.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

ALTER EGO: CENTENNIAL is a celebration of 100 issues, and 50 years, of ALTER EGO, Roy Thomas’ legendary super-hero fanzine. It’s a double-size triple-threat BOOK, with twice as many pages as the regular magazine, plus special features just for this anniversary edition! Behind a RICH BUCKLER/JERRY ORDWAY JSA cover, ALTER EGO celebrates its 100th issue and the 50th anniversary of A/E (Vol. 1) #1 in 1961—as ROY THOMAS is interviewed by JIM AMASH about the 1980s at DC! Learn secrets behind ALL-STAR SQUADRON—INFINITY, INC.—ARAK, SON OF THUNDER—CAPTAIN CARROT—JONNI THUNDER, a.k.a. THUNDERBOLT— YOUNG ALL-STARS—SHAZAM!—RING OF THE NIBELUNG—and more! With rare art and artifacts by GEORGE PÉREZ, TODD McFARLANE, RICH BUCKLER, JERRY ORDWAY, MIKE MACHLAN, GIL KANE, GENE COLAN, DICK GIORDANO, ALFREDO ALCALA, TONY DEZUNIGA, ERNIE COLÓN, STAN GOLDBERG, SCOTT SHAW!, ROSS ANDRU, and many more! Plus special anniversary editions of Alter Ego staples MR. MONSTER’S COMIC CRYPT, FAWCETT COLLECTORS OF AMERICA (FCA)—and ALEX WRIGHT’s amazing color collection of 1940s DC pinup babes! Edited by ROY THOMAS. (NOTE: This book takes the place of ALTER EGO #100, and counts as TWO issues toward your subscription.) (160-page trade paperback with COLOR) $19.95 (Digital Edition) $5.95 • ISBN: 9781605490311 Diamond Order Code: JAN111351

ALTER EGO #101

Fox Comics of the 1940s with art by FINE, BAKER, SIMON, KIRBY, TUSKA, FLETCHER HANKS, ALEX BLUM, and others! “Superman vs. Wonder Man” starring EISNER, IGER, SIEGEL, LIEBERSON, MAYER, DONENFELD, and VICTOR FOX! Plus, Part I of an interview with JACK MENDELSOHN, plus FCA, MR. MONSTER’S COMIC CRYPT, and new cover by Marvel artist DAVE WILLIAMS!

NEW!

(84-page magazine with COLOR) $7.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

ALTER EGO #102

ALTER EGO #103

ALTER EGO #104

ALTER EGO: THE CBA COLLECTION

Spotlight on Green Lantern creators MART NODELL and BILL FINGER in the 1940s, and JOHN BROOME, GIL KANE, and JULIUS SCHWARTZ in 1959! Rare GL artwork by INFANTINO, REINMAN, HASEN, NEAL ADAMS, and others! Plus JACK MENDELSOHN Part II, FCA, MR. MONSTER’S COMIC CRYPT, and new cover by GIL KANE & TERRY AUSTIN, and MART NODELL!

The early career of comics writer STEVE ENGLEHART: Defenders, Captain America, Master of Kung Fu, The Beast, Mantis, and more, with rare art and artifacts by SAL BUSCEMA, STARLIN, SUTTON, HECK, BROWN, and others. Plus, JIM AMASH interviews early artist GEORGE MANDEL (Captain Midnight, The Woman in Red, Blue Bolt, Black Marvel, etc.), FCA, MR. MONSTER’S COMIC CRYPT, and more!

Celebrates the 50th anniversary of FANTASTIC FOUR #1 and the birth of Marvel Comics! New, never-before-published STAN LEE interview, art and artifacts by KIRBY, DITKO, SINNOTT, AYERS, THOMAS, and secrets behind the Marvel Mythos! Also: JIM AMASH interviews 1940s Timely editor AL SULMAN, FCA, MR. MONSTER’S COMIC CRYPT, and a new cover by FRENZ and SINNOTT!

Compiles the ALTER EGO flip-sides from COMIC BOOK ARTIST #1-5, plus 30 NEW PAGES of features & art! All-new rare and previously-unpublished art by JACK KIRBY, GIL KANE, JOE KUBERT, WALLY WOOD, FRANK ROBBINS, NEAL ADAMS, & others, ROY THOMAS on X-MEN, AVENGERS/ KREE-SKRULL WAR, INVADERS, and more! Cover by JOE KUBERT!

(84-page magazine with COLOR) $7.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95

(160-page trade paperback) SOLD OUT (Digital Edition) $4.95

HUMOR MAGAZINES (BUNDLE ALL THREE FOR JUST $14.95)

ALTER EGO:

BEST OF THE LEGENDARY COMICS FANZINE

Collects the original 11 issues of JERRY BAILS and ROY THOMAS’ ALTER EGO fanzine (from 1961-78), with contributions from JACK KIRBY, STEVE DITKO, WALLY WOOD, JOHN BUSCEMA, MARIE SEVERIN, BILL EVERETT, RUSS MANNING, CURT SWAN, and others—and illustrated interviews with GIL KANE, BILL EVERETT, & JOE KUBERT! Plus major articles on the JUSTICE SOCIETY, the MARVEL FAMILY, the MLJ HEROES, and more! Edited by ROY THOMAS and BILL SCHELLY with an introduction by JULIE SCHWARTZ. (192-page trade paperback) $21.95 ISBN: 9781893905887 Diamond Order Code: DEC073946

COMIC BOOK NERD

PETE VON SHOLLY’s side-splitting parody of the fan press, including our own mags! Experience the magic(?) of such publications as WHIZZER, the COMICS URINAL, ULTRA EGO, COMICS BUYER’S GUISE, BAGGED ISSUE!, SCRAWL!, COMIC BOOK ARTISTE, and more, as we unabashedly poke fun at ourselves, our competitors, and you, our loyal readers! It’s a first issue, collector’s item, double-bag, slab-worthy, speculator’s special sure to rub even the thickest-skinned fanboy the wrong way! (64-page COLOR magazine) $8.95 • (Digital Edition) $2.95

CRAZY HIP GROOVY GO-GO WAY OUT MONSTERS #29 & #32

PETE VON SHOLLY’s spoofs of monster mags will have you laughing your pants off— right after you soil them from sheer terror! This RETRO MONSTER MOVIE MAGAZINE is a laugh riot lampoon of those GREAT (and absolutely abominable) mags of the 1950s and ‘60s, replete with fake letters-to-the-editor, phony ads for worthless, wacky stuff, stills from imaginary films as bad as any that were really made, interviews with their “creators,” and much more! Relive your misspent youth (and misspent allowance) as you dig the hilarious photos, ads, and articles skewering OUR FAVORITE THINGS of the past! Get our first issue (#29!), the sequel (#32!), or both!

DIEDGITIIOTANSL E

BL AVAILA

(48-page magazines) $5.95 EACH • (Digital Editions) $1.95 EACH

These sold-out books are now available again in DIGITAL EDITIONS:

NEW!

MR. MONSTER, VOL. 0

TRUE BRIT

DICK GIORDANO: CHANGING COMICS, ONE DAY AT A TIME

Collects hard-to-find Mr. Monster stories from A-1, CRACK-A-BOOM! and DARK HORSE PRESENTS (many in COLOR for the first time) plus over 30 pages of ALLNEW MR. MONSTER art and stories! Can your sanity survive our Lee/Kirby monster spoof by MICHAEL T. GILBERT and MARK MARTIN, or the long-lost 1933 Mr. Monster newspaper strip? Or the terrifying TRENCHER/MR. MONSTER slug-fest, drawn by KEITH GIFFEN and MICHAEL T. GILBERT?! Read at your own risk!

GEORGE KHOURY’s definitive book on the rich history of British Comics Artists, their influence on the US, and how they have revolutionized the way comics are seen and perceived! It features breathtaking art, intimate photographs, and in-depth interviews with BRIAN BOLLAND, ALAN DAVIS, DAVE GIBBONS, KEVIN O’NEILL, DAVID LLOYD, DAVE McKEAN, BRYAN HITCH, BARRY WINDSOR-SMITH and other fine gents! Sporting a new JUDGE DREDD cover by BRIAN BOLLAND!

MICHAEL EURY’s biography of comics’ most prominent and affable personality! It covers his career as illustrator, inker, and editor—peppered with DICK’S PERSONAL REFLECTIONS—and is illustrated with RARE AND UNSEEN comics, merchandising, and advertising art! Plus: an extensive index of his published work, comments and tributes by NEAL ADAMS, DENNIS O’NEIL, TERRY AUSTIN, PAUL LEVITZ, MARV WOLFMAN, JULIUS SCHWARTZ, JIM APARO and others, a Foreword by NEAL ADAMS, and an Afterword by PAUL LEVITZ!

(136-page Digital Edition with COLOR) $4.95

(204-page Digital Edition with COLOR) $6.95

(176-page Digital Edition with COLOR) $5.95

SECRETS IN THE SHADOWS: GENE COLAN

TOM FIELD’s amazing COLAN retrospective, with rare drawings, photos, and art from his 60-year career, and a comprehensive overview of Gene’s glory days at Marvel Comics! MARV WOLFMAN, DON McGREGOR and other writers share script samples and anecdotes of their Colan collaborations, while TOM PALMER, STEVE LEIALOHA and others show how they approached inking Colan’s famously nuanced penciled pages! Plus: a NEW PORTFOLIO of never-seen collaborations between Gene and masters such as BYRNE, KALUTA and PÉREZ, and all-new artwork created just for this book! (192-page Digital Edition with COLOR) $6.95

ART OF GEORGE TUSKA

A comprehensive look at GEORGE TUSKA’S personal and professional life, including early work at the Eisner-Iger shop, producing controversial crime comics of the 1950s, and his tenure with Marvel and DC Comics, as well as independent publishers. Includes extensive coverage of his work on IRON MAN, X-MEN, HULK, JUSTICE LEAGUE, TEEN TITANS, BATMAN, T.H.U.N.D.E.R. AGENTS, and others, a gallery of commission art and a thorough index of his work, original art, photos, sketches, unpublished art, interviews and anecdotes from his peers and fans, plus the very personal and reflective words of George himself! Written by DEWEY CASSELL. (128-page Digital Edition) $4.95

OTHER BOOKS FROM TWOMORROWS PUBLISHING

PENCILER, PUBLISHER, PROVOCATEUR

COMICS’ FAST & FURIOUS ARTIST

THE ART OF GLAMOUR

MATT BAKER

EXTRAORDINARY WORKS OF ALAN MOORE

Shines a light on the life and career of the artistic and publishing visionary of DC Comics!

Explores the life and career of one of Marvel Comics’ most recognizable and dependable artists!

Biography of the talented master of 1940s “Good Girl” art, complete with color story reprints!

Definitive biography of the Watchmen writer, in a new, expanded edition!

(224-page trade paperback) $26.95

(176-page trade paperback with COLOR) $26.95

(192-page hardcover with COLOR) $39.95

(240-page trade paperback) $29.95

QUALITY COMPANION

BATCAVE COMPANION

ALL- STAR COMPANION

AGE OF TV HEROES

The first dedicated book about the Golden Age publisher that spawned the modern-day “Freedom Fighters”, Plastic Man, and the Blackhawks!

Unlocks the secrets of Batman’s Silver and Bronze Ages, following the Dark Knight’s progression from 1960s camp to 1970s creature of the night!

Roy Thomas has four volumes documenting the history of ALL-STAR COMICS, the JUSTICE SOCIETY, INFINITY, INC., and more!

(256-page trade paperback with COLOR) $31.95

(240-page trade paperback) $26.95

(224-page trade paperbacks) $24.95

Examining the history of the live-action television adventures of everyone’s favorite comic book heroes, featuring the in-depth stories of the shows’ actors and behind-the-scenes players!

CARMINE INFANTINO

SAL BUSCEMA

(192-page full-color hardcover) $39.95

MARVEL COMICS

An issue-by-issue field guide to the pop culture phenomenon of LEE, KIRBY, DITKO, and others, from the company’s fumbling beginnings to the full maturity of its wild, colorful, offbeat grandiosity!

IN THE 1960s

(224-page trade paperback) $27.95

MODERN MASTERS

HOW TO CREATE COMICS

Covers how Stan Lee went from writer to publisher, Jack Kirby left (and returned), Roy Thomas rose as editor, and a new wave of writers and artists came in!

20+ volumes with in-depth interviews, plus extensive galleries of rare and unseen art from the artist’s files!

(224-page trade paperback) $27.95

Shows step-by-step how to develop a new comic, from script and art, to printing and distribution!

(128-page trade paperbacks) $14.95 each

(108-page trade paperback) $15.95

IN THE 1970s

A BOOK SERIES DEVOTED TO THE BEST OF TODAY’S ARTISTS

FROM SCRIPT TO PRINT

FOR A FREE COLOR CATALOG, CALL, WRITE, E-MAIL, OR LOG ONTO www.twomorrows.com

TwoMorrows—A New Day For Comics Fandom! TwoMorrows Publishing • 10407 Bedfordtown Drive • Raleigh, NC 27614 USA • 919-449-0344 • FAX: 919-449-0327 E-mail: twomorrow@aol.com • Visit us on the Web at www.twomorrows.com