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JULIUS SCHWARTZ AGE OF COMICS! Co-Starring
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Vol. 3, No. 38 / July 2004
™
Editor
Roy Thomas
Associate Editors Bill Schelly Jim Amash
Design & Layout
Christopher Day
Consulting Editor John Morrow
FCA Editor
JULIE
P.C. Hamerlinck
Comic Crypt Editor Michael T. Gilbert
Editors Emeritus
Jerry Bails (founder) Ronn Foss, Biljo White, Mike Friedrich
Part One
Production Assistant
Eric Nolen-Weathington
Cover Artists Carmine Infantino & Jim Amash Irwin Hasen
Cover Colorists J. David Spurlock Irwin Hasen
And Special Thanks to: Neal Adams Murphy Anderson Pedro Angosto Jeff Bailey Bob Bailey Brian H. Bailie Mike W. Barr Michael Baulderstone Bill Black Jackson Bostwick Jerry K. Boyd Alan Brennert Mike Burkey Nick Cardy Bob Cherry Shaun Clancy John Cochran Dave Cockrum Ray A. Cuthbert Teresa R. Davidson Al Dellinges Joe Desris Irwin Donenfeld Shel Dorf Harlan & Susan Ellison Don Ensign Mark Evanier Shane Foley Ramona Fradon Mike Friedrich Carl Gafford José García-López Jeff Gelb Frank Giella Joe Giella Janet Gilbert Dick Giordano Mike Gold Bob Greenberger Walt Grogan Beth Gwinn Jennifer T. Hamerlinck
Ron Harris Irwin Hasen Mark & Stephanie Heike Tom Horvitz Dave Hunt Joe Kubert Stan Lee Paul Levitz Glenn MacKay Elliot S. Maggin Keith Mallow Dan Makara Dave Manak Sam Maronie Brian K. Morris Mark Muller Will Murray Mart Nodell Denny O’Neil Carlos Pacheco Joe Petrilak John G. Pierce Larry Rippee Ethan Roberts Bob Rozakis Alex Saviuk David Siegel Louis Small, Jr. Marc Sparks J. David Spurlock Richard Steinberg Marc Svensson Marc Swayze Joel Thingvall Dann Thomas Alex Toth Michael Uslan Marv Wolfman Donald Woolfolk Eddy Zeno Michael Zeno Tom Ziuko
This issue is dedicated to the memory of
Julie Schwartz, Carrie Nodell, & Lillian Drake
Contents
Writer/Editorial: Julie, Julie, Julie . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 Schwartz and All. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 Mark Evanier’s overview of the life & times of Julius Schwartz. Three Easy Pieces Starring Julius Schwartz . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 A trio of interviews by Will Murray with the self-confessed architect of the Silver Age. “How Captain Whiz Became The Flash!” . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 30 Carmine Infantino on Julie—and the secret origins of the Silver Age speedster. “We Called Him ‘Sabertooth’!” . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 36 Golden/Silver Age inker Joe Giella talks about his friendship with Julie. “I Never Felt Like I Was Working for a Boss When I Worked for Julie!” . . 40 Murphy Anderson on the “Spectre-acular” Schwartz.
Julie: Part Two . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Flip Us! About Our Cover: There was never a moment’s doubt about which super-hero, if any, would appear on our cover. Julie Schwartz edited the legendary JSA and other DC heroes in the late 1940s, and many another comic in the 1950s through his retirement in the mid-1980s, including Superman and Batman—but ’twas the 1956 debut of The Flash in Showcase #4 that, however unguessed-at at the time, raised the curtain on the Silver Age of Comics. We didn’t dare dream that that Flash’s first and greatest artist, Carmine Infantino, who rarely draws these days, would agree to pencil a brand new cover especially for this issue; but, thanks to some friendly persuasion by Jim Amash, he did—using his sometime signature “Cinfa”—and he came through like the champ he’s always been. See both Carmine’s penciled version and the full Amash-inked version of this fabulous illo—including how you can take a crack at owning it—on p. 34! [Art ©2004 Carmine Infantino; The Flash TM & ©2004 DC Comics.] Above: Julie and artist Murphy Anderson hold up a copy of Justice League of America #1, with the cover they created for it. This was actually the fourth “JLA” story, of course—but its publication demonstrated that the super-group had won its wings, and it’s been around ever since! Photo from the Julius Schwartz Collection. Alter EgoTM is published monthly by TwoMorrows, 10407 Bedfordtown Drive, Raleigh, NC 27614, USA. Phone: (919) 449-0344. Roy Thomas, Editor. John Morrow, Publisher. Alter Ego Editorial Offices: 32 Bluebird Trail, St. Matthews, SC 29135, USA. Fax: (803) 826-6501; e-mail: roydann@ntinet.com. Send subscription funds to TwoMorrows, NOT to the editorial offices. Single issues: $8 ($10 Canada, $11.00 elsewhere). Twelve-issue subscriptions: $60 US, $120 Canada, $132 elsewhere. All characters are © their respective companies. All material © their creators unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter © Roy Thomas. Alter Ego is a TM of Roy & Dann Thomas. FCA is a TM of P.C. Hamerlinck. Printed in Canada. FIRST PRINTING.
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Title writer/editorial
Julie, Julie, Julie
Julius Schwartz meant a lot to me, both as man and as comic book editor. No, make that “means.” Just because he’s gone doesn’t make him loom any less large in my life, nor in others’.
When I first decided to devote an entire issue of Alter Ego to Julie and his accomplishments, I intended to write a long piece about our relationship over the years, as I’d done previously about Gil Kane, John Buscema, and Bill Everett. Ere long, however, a floodtide of Julie-related memories and anecdotes came cascading in from folks who wished, wanted, nay, demanded to be a part of this special issue. And how could I deny them? Yet I could only find more space in the issue—by foregoing some of my own.
what was coming up in his comics, though his major correspondent in that area was understandably Jerry, who’d print news in the various fanzines he initiated. Julie bristled once when I mentioned I hadn’t heard from him in a while—“I’m a busy man!” he shot back—but I always looked forward to his letters. I was moderately crushed when I submitted two scripts to him (one solicited, one un-, as recorded in A/E V3#9) and he basically ignored them. But I never complained. When I obtained a fellowship to study foreign relations at George Washington University in the nation’s capital, Julie informed me that he had relatives in that area, and we could meet up when he visited them.
I’ve never been certain to what extent my being hired by DC in mid1965 to become assistant editor to his longtime friend, Superman editor Mort Weisinger, was due to Julie. Julie downplayed his role; but since I’d corresponded very little with Mort (though I had sent him my first two Matter of fact, I wound issues of Alter Ego, which up with so much material by then I was that I soon decided I’d also editing/publishing), I’ve devote half of A/E #40, always felt Mort was two months from now, to aware of all my correa combination of Julie and spondence with Julie, and his artist friend Gil Kane. that that played a role. Hopefully, I’ll get a chance Julie did say once that to say more about both Mort asked his opinion men in #40—but the way before offering me the that issue is fast filling up, An early 21st-century Silver & Golden Age panel at the Heroes Con in Charlotte, North Carolina. job. And I recall Mort as well, with art and info (Left to right:) Nick Cardy, Irwin Hasen, Roy Thomas, Julius Schwartz, Murphy Anderson. Ye telling me, soon after I related to Julie and Gil Editor, moderating the panel, felt like a kid amid his heroes. Thanks to Bob Bailey. arrived in New York, that (and with a wonderful long Julie had expressed an Russ Heath interview interest in having me write something for him in the future. already slated for it, as well!), I wouldn’t bet on it. So, just in case, I’ll jot down here a few not-quite-random thoughts about the man alternately referred to in these pages as “Sabertooth,” “Blackheart,” and “The Living Legend”—before I turn the remainder of the issue over to others.
Julius Schwartz was the first pro who ever sent me a personal letter. One day in 1960, at age nineteen, I sent three letters to DC—one each to “the editors” of The Flash, Showcase (“Green Lantern”), and the new “JLA” series in The Brave and the Bold. One of those missives got printed in Green Lantern #1—my first published LOC. But what’s important is that, though I’d been too naïve to realize it, all three of those comics were edited by the same man, one J. Schwartz—and perhaps it was seeing three very similar letters come in from the same reader at the same time that led him to respond. Who knows? If I’d known Julie edited all three mags and had only sent one letter, he might not have. And, because my later letters mentioned my love for the 1940s AllStar Comics, Julie informed me in November that both the original “Justice Society” and the current “Justice League” had been scripted by Gardner F. Fox, whose name I recalled from ’40s “Flash” logos. He even sent me Gardner’s home address, in case I wanted to write him directly. (I never did learn if he cleared that with Gardner first!) It was Gardner, a week later, who responded with his own gracious letter—which included the address of one Jerry Bails, a Detroit college prof who had purchased Gardner’s bound volumes of All-Star (I had asked Gardner if he happened to have any old issues lying around the house that he wanted to get rid of). Correspondence with Jerry, in turn, put me in on the ground floor when he developed the concept of a comics fanzine to be called Alter-Ego, the first issue of which hit the mails in March of 1961. Quite a fast turn of events over those four months. Over the next few years, Julie would send me advance information on
Since I ankled DC after two weeks and spent the next fifteen years at Marvel, and Julie rarely attended conventions or other comics-related functions in those days, our paths seldom crossed over the next few years, though our relations were always cordial. Still, when I turned down a third three-year writing contract with Marvel in 1980 and accepted one with DC, it was for Julie that I concocted my very first DC plots—for DC Comics Presents #33-34, in which Superman and Captain Marvel switched bodies. And wouldn’t you know—that’s when Julie and I had our first spat! Julie, of course, had long been used to getting little if any static from writers like Gardner Fox and John Broome… while I, in turn, had been either de facto or officially my own editor at Marvel for the preceding decade-plus. So when Julie’s assistant E. Nelson Bridwell edited out of DC Presents #34 two lines of dialogue which were a set-up to later lines—and left in the later lines, which made no sense without the setup—I was quick to complain to Julie: “I don’t object to editing—but I do object to bad editing.” Actually, I had considerable respect for Nelson and liked him as a person—but I don’t suppose my comment was designed to get Julie and me off on the right foot. Other faux pas on my part, and maybe even on Julie’s, followed on a few other occasions we worked together in the 1980s. Publisher Jenette Kahn and her crew had verbally assured me that DC editors would be there to “help, not hinder” me, and I had taken that to mean that my plots and dialogue wouldn’t be altered without consultation. Since that wasn’t Julie’s way, the grounds were set for a head-on collision… a collision that, thank Crom, we usually managed to avoid. Once I did lace into him on the phone when, after he offered me the writing of a particular adaptation for one of the science-fiction graphic novels he was editing, someone else wound up doing it, and Julie seemed to have totally forgotten our previous conversation. But we got past that, as we got past other minor hiccups.
Julie, Julie, Julie Personally? Well, I liked Julie a lot, and I’ve been told by others that he liked me—yet there was always a certain distance between us. Various people, even in this issue, have said that one had to work at being Julie’s friend, and I don’t think I ever put quite enough effort into that aspect of things. I was content to run into him occasionally at conventions or elsewhere, and to trade a few barbs with him. About those barbs: Julie loved insult humor, which often seemed his preferred mode of conversation with Marv Wolfman, Len Wein, Harlan Ellison, and others. Talkative as I might be, my own Midwestern background—I sometimes feel like a refugee from Garrison Keeler’s “News from Lake Wobegon”—inclines me to strive to avoid verbal confrontations, even basically friendly ones. I suppose I was more likely to bristle and sulk than to trade barbs. Every time I’d get on the phone with Julie—and I did so fairly often in recent years, especially after I began editing the new volume of Alter Ego, to which Julie’s body of work was so very important, and when I’d hear his health was failing— he would treat me as if I were doing all the talking non-stop and chewing his ear off, when in fact (with Julie and Gil Kane, at least, if perhaps not with most others) I knew I was generally doing a lot less than 50% of the yakking. This was just Julie’s way, and I knew it… yet I was never totally at ease in such conversations. Even so, I loved it when he began talking spiritedly about the old days of science-fiction pulps, and he seemed genuinely impressed once when he asked me if I had heard of sf writer Stanley Weinbaum, and I told him I had even adapted Weinbaum’s “A Martian Odyssey” into comics form in the 1970s. It was science-fiction, far more than comics, that Julie loved. Note which of the two is mentioned first in the subtitle of his 2000 book, Man of Two Worlds. That’s not just chronological order at work there. But—enough! If I go on like this, I’ll make you think I didn’t love and revere Julie Schwartz—and I most definitely did and do! No matter what Julie dished out, I’d respond in my own Missouri way but then come back for more, because of my respect, nay, awe for the man and what he had done. I was depressed for days after I learned he had passed away, even though it was not unexpected, and I hoped to attend his memorial service—but alas, DC scheduled it on a morning, and I couldn’t get to New York by train before noon, so I had to miss it. But I
3
thought of him, around the time I knew the service would be going on. I was with him and his other friends in spirit. Because of the contrast between his New York manner and my own nature, I suppose, I rarely got the “best” of Julie in our barbs-trading. Only once, that I recall, did I leave him without a quick and withering verbal comeback. Sometime in the 1990s, when Dann and I were still flying back from South Carolina to attend the San Diego Comic-Con, I was talking amid a crowded dealers’ room with artist Rick Hoberg and a couple of other people when Julie waltzed by. I called out a hello to him. He stopped, and, addressing Rick, et al., more than me, he quipped mock-dismissively: “Roy Thomas! He used to be big in comics!” Without missing a beat, I shot back: “I’m still big, Julie. It’s the comics that got small.” For once, Julie had no comeback. He shook his head, smiled, and moved on… and, happily, we talked at greater length later that weekend. And every time I ran into Rick Hoberg for the rest of the con, he was telling somebody about my little exchange with Julie, which had left him in stitches. Admittedly with a bit of help from Norma Desmond, I had finally— just once—got the better of Julie Schwartz. Except that they don’t get any better than Julie Schwartz. He presided over part of the Golden Age of Comics—he launched the Silver Age—and he was a force to be reckoned with in the Bronze and beyond, as well. Julie, Julie, Julie… why’d you leave us all alone down here after only 88 years? Bestest,
P.S.: Afraid our letters section got squeezed out—again. (Sigh.) ™
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Schwartz and All Great Moments with Julius Schwartz (1915-2004) by Mark Evanier
Julie’s Top Ten! The Living Legend himself at a comics convention—in a photo from the Julius Schwartz Collection—framed by ten of the most important comic book milestones in his long and, yes, legendary career. [Clockwise & in chronological order from top right center:] All-Star Comics #42 (Aug.-Sept. 1948), representing his becoming a full editor, upon Shelly Mayer’s retirement—Strange Adventures #1 (Aug.-Sept. 1950), the comic that returned Julie to his first and greatest love, science-fiction—Mystery in Space #1 (April-May 1951)—Showcase #4 (Sept.-Oct. 1956)—Showcase #22 (Sept.-Oct. 1959)—The Brave and the Bold #28 (Feb.-March 1960)—The Flash #123 (Sept. 1961)—Justice League of America #21 (Aug. 1963)—Detective Comics #327 (May 1964)—Superman #233 (Jan. 1970). If you don’t already know why these mags were important to Julius Schwartz—and to comics—then stick around! [Covers ©2004 DC Comics.]
Schwartz and All [A/E EDITOR’S NOTE: The following essay—really, a series of short essays, primarily by Mark but with an added remembrance at the end by Elliot Maggin— appeared on Mark’s website www.newsfromme.com on February 9, 2004, only hours after Julie Schwartz’s passing. Mark is, of course, a TV and comic book writer, most noted in comics in recent years for his hilarious dialogue that accompanies Sergio Aragonés’ Groo the Wanderer. The order of some material below been somewhat rearranged from its original appearance on the website, but is still ©2004 Mark Evanier. The main thing is—Mark tells you just about everything you really need to know about Julie Schwartz, prior to reading the rest of the issue. —Roy.]
5 and their association, and it was the kind of writer you’d be proud to not have like you. Given Julie’s years and position, that is a truly amazing accomplishment: to do so much hiring and firing and rewriting and critiquing… and to be almost completely undespised.
Surely there must’ve been many photos taken of Julie and Mark Evanier together on those dozens of San Diego Comic-Con panels… but, oddly, the only photo of Mark in the Julius Schwartz Collection was this one from the Chicago Con, 1987—minus Julie! (Left to right:) Roy & Dann Thomas, Mark, and Pat Bastienne, longtime DC editorial coordinator.
He was one of the founding fathers of science-fiction fandom and later of comic book fandom. For a time, he was an agent for sciencefiction authors. Among other accomplishments, he sold the first stories by a kid named Ray Bradbury. But you could only go so far in that field, so when he heard about an opening as an editor of comic books, he grabbed it, figuring it might be good for a few years of increased income. On his way to the job interview, he later claimed, he read the first comic books he’d ever read. He apparently gleaned enough of the form, because for the rest of his is life, Julius Schwartz was not only an employee of DC Comics but, some said, the best comic book editor there ever was. His background as a science-fiction fan and agent served him when he helmed comics like Strange Adventures and Mystery in Space, but he really distinguished himself as an editor of super-hero comics.
And the other group that profited from the existence of Schwartz was the readers… those of us who got to buy and read and savor all those fine comics. We loved Schwartz and he loved us, possibly because he had been one of us. He and his boyhood friend Mort Weisinger had published one of the first, if not the first, science-fiction fanzine. Julie loved fanzines. He loved conventions. The last few years, nothing depressed him more than the fear that some physical ailment would keep him from the annual San Diego gathering. (Quick Story: Last year, Julie was reticent to come out because he was having trouble walking and didn’t want to be rolled about in a wheelchair. I asked him why not, and he said, “Because old men are in wheelchairs.” I told him, “Julie, you’re 88 years old. You are an old man.” He still balked, so I said, “Tell you what. Come out, sit in the wheelchair, and I’ll arrange for a woman with large breasts to push you around in it.” He said, “In that case, okay.”)
Perhaps the greatest thing about Julie was that there was so much overlap in the above two groups. He gave many readers the opportunity to become writers and even artists. And he stood on no ceremony: anyone who met him at the conventions can attest to how friendly and accessible he was. He got annoyed with you if you didn’t ask him questions. It’s going to be sad going to conventions without him. Julie died this morning at Winthrop Hospital in New York—around 2:30 A.M. It was not a surprise, and it was one of those deaths that, and everyone reading this will understand what I mean, provides a certain amount of relief. He had been in terrible shape the last few weeks. His hearing was almost gone, and I had to shout to be heard in our last phone conversation. He had been proud and fiercely independent in his
Whatever the “Silver Age of Comics” was, it more or less commenced with Showcase #4, which revived The Flash in a new form and figure. Super-hero comics had been in decline before Schwartz edited that book, supervising and steering the reinvention of an entire genre. It led to more revivals: Green Lantern, Hawkman, Atom, and (best of all) the Justice League of America. And then, at another company across town, came The Fantastic Four and all the Marvel heroes—all reborn because Julie had paved the route. Later, when sales on Batman were sinking, DC turned to Schwartz to institute a “new look” and bolster the character, which he did. And when Superman was in need of an editor who knew what he was doing, Julie came to the rescue. How many people in this world could say honestly that they saved both Superman and Batman? But the main beneficiaries of Schwartz being on this Earth (as distinguished from the others he presided over) were not comic book characters. They fell into two groups. First, you had your writers and artists who loved working with the man. They found him encouraging, stimulating, and devoutly intent on producing the best comic books humanly possible at the moment. And yes, they sometimes found him maddening to deal with. But despite all the years I’ve been around comics and Julie Schwartz, I’ve only known of one writer who did not love the man
(Above:) Julie in a tuxedo. Why is Julie uncharacteristically wearing a tuxedo? In this instance, the generally information-laden key to the Julius Schwartz Collection says merely: “[no info].” (Right:) The Carmine Infantino/Joe Giella cover of The Flash #120 (May 1961), repro’d from a photocopy of the original, as it appeared in a 1990s art catalog.
6
Great Moments with Julius Schwartz (1915–2004)
apartment, but he had begun falling down and had come to the very sad realization that he could no longer live alone. He’d been in and out of Winthrop, staying with his granddaughter during the “out” parts, and plans were underway to move him to a senior home. The last thing I said to him, about a week ago, was to promise, because he was afraid he’d never see his friends again, that I’d round up half the comic book biz and come see him in his new digs.
Julie with three gorgeous ladies: “Wonder Woman” (model’s name unknown, alas) at the Chicago Con in 1985—B-movie star Caroline Munro at the Atlanta Fantasy Fair in 1987—and Yvonne Craig, who was TV’s original Batgirl back in the late ’60s. (Photos from the Julius Schwartz Collection—of photos, not ladies.) And, for good measure, here are nice illos of Wonder Woman by George Pérez and Batgirl by Gil Kane and Sid Greene. George’s WW sketch was done in 2001 for Mike Zeno, while the Batgirl panel is from an Australian black-&-white reprint comic, courtesy of Shane Foley. [WW sketch ©2004 George Pérez; Wonder Woman & Batgirl TM & ©2004 DC Comics.]
I first knew Julie like most of you did—as a reader. I had letters printed in a lot of his comics and we corresponded, and once I started writing comic books, I politely declined his invitations to submit ideas to him. Frankly, he scared the hell out of me. (I wrote about it in these columns.) When I finally did work for him, I found it a delightful experience, and, after two assignments, opted to quit while I was ahead. I liked writing for Julie, but I liked being his friend even more… and, perhaps foolishly, didn’t want to jeopardize that friendship. It is sad to lose the man we called, only half-jokingly, The Living Legend, but there’s a positive way to view our loss: like one of the Challengers of the Unknown (a comic he never edited), Julius Schwartz sometimes seemed to be living on Borrowed Time. Close to twenty years ago, his wife Jean passed away. They were one of those couples that are practically inseparable. Each day when he went to work, he would phone her on the odd-numbered hours (9:00, 11:00, 1:00, etc.) and she would phone him on the even. When she died, everyone who knew them said, “Oh, poor Julie. He’ll go to pieces. He won’t last six months without her.” You’ve all seen that happen with older married folks, but in this case, it didn’t. After a suitable period of mourning, Julie was at conventions, partying ’til dawn, charming the ladies and displaying more energy than guys half his age. I always thought there was a wonderful symmetry there: Schwartz had helped create fandom, and now fandom was embracing him and providing him a place to be in his senior years. I’ll think of more things to write about him here later today. Right now, I just want to sit here and think how wonderful it was to have him around for so long. What a great, great man. In the mid-’50s, nothing was selling well at DC Comics. The market-
place was so fragile that publisher Jack Liebowitz was afraid of launching new comics for fear that they might all flop and further injure retailer confidence. The solution, conceived by editorial director Irwin Donenfeld, was a new book called Showcase, wherein they could try out concepts before perhaps launching them as full-fledged, ongoing books. The task of filling this book rotated between the various DC editors, and a kind of competition erupted between them. It was most intense between Mort Weisinger, who edited the Superman titles, and Jack Schiff, who helmed the Batman books. DC then had no editor-in-chief, and the two men both coveted the post. Each sought to prove his commercial skills by midwifing the first Showcase feature that proved worthy of graduating to a regular book. As it happened, Weisinger’s first Showcase effort (“Fire Fighters”) flopped, but he got DC to okay a regular book of his second, Superman’s Girl Friend—Lois Lane, the same month they also launched Schiff’s new acquisition, Challengers of the Unknown. Partly because they’d more or less tied, and partly because one would have quit if the other had got the job, DC never did name an editor-in-chief that decade or the next. But, in hindsight, the guy who really won that contest was Julius Schwartz. His contender, “The Flash,” was the third Showcase feature to get its own book, but it was the one that demonstrated the most editorial savvy. Lois Lane was just an extension of a book that was already DC’s top, and Challengers was a book Joe Simon and Jack Kirby had created outside of DC and just handed to Schiff. Schwartz actually worked with writers and artists to develop The Flash out of a then-worthless property. More to the point, The Flash gave DC a new franchise and a new direction. There were no spin-offs from Challengers, and Lois Lane—though successful—actually seemed to be drawing some of its sales from the Superman title. Schwartz’s Flash, however, outlasted both books and pointed the way to DC’s future. Which may explain why Julius Schwartz’s tenure as a DC editor far outlasted both Weisinger’s and Schiff’s.
Schwartz and All First time I met Julie Schwartz was 1970 in the DC offices, which were then located at 909 Third Avenue in New York. This was a scary building, more appropriate for an investment firm than a maker of comic books, and the halls were austere and very corporate. You either wore a tie there or felt like you should be wearing one. Julie shared a tiny cubicle with fellow editor Dick Giordano, and they each had one chair for a guest. If one of them had two visitors at the same time, he had to borrow the other guy’s chair. Julie did this to accommodate my thenpartner Steve Sherman and me, then he began pulling out photos to show us… mostly group shots of oldtime science-fiction writers. He seemed a bit miffed that I couldn’t identify Henry Kuttner or Edmond Hamilton from their pictures, but he invited us to lunch. With the same commanding authority with which he assigned deadlines, he told us to “be back here at 12:30 on the dot.” Then he went off to conduct his duties, which seemed then to consist of striding through the DC corridors, rattling change in his pockets and making curt remarks to everyone he encountered. 12:30 on the dot, we were back at his door, and by 12:31 he was leading us through a labyrinth of underground tunnels and subway paths to what he kept telling us was his favorite place to eat. I wrongly assumed that this might have something to do with the food there, but instead, it had everything to do with the legs of the waitresses. The meal (I had roast beef and rice that I’m still digesting) was mediocre, but the servers were all young, cute, and dressed in perky little maid’s outfits. To Julie, this was the essential purpose of lunch… and, lest he sound like a Dirty Old Man here, I hasten to add: the waitresses loved him. They flirted, they hugged him, and one in particular put on a little show, bending over way more than necessary when she cleared dishes around the man. In later years, no matter how old he got, you’d see this charm in action. If you wanted to find the best-looking woman at any comic or science-fiction convention, just locate Schwartz and look who had his arm. In later years, whenever I went back to Manhattan, I’d always make time to visit the DC offices and go out to lunch with Julie. This meant he would take me to some nearby restaurant where the food was terrible but a lot of good-looking waitresses knew him and would flirt unmercifully. Usually, it was the Star Diner on 54th and 7th, but the last time I was back, I experienced a truly impressive example of the old Schwartz Magic. He was having trouble walking and felt he shouldn’t leave the office, so I said, “Okay, I’ll go out and get us lunch.” I hiked over to the Carnegie Deli on 7th and got us chicken soup, potato salad, soft drinks, and a couple of corned beef sandwiches the size of Pontiacs. While waiting for the order, I ran into another DC editor and we got to talking. A very attractive waitress overheard me say, “I’m taking lunch back to Julie Schwartz,” and she asked, “Is that the cute bald man who gives out Superman pins all the time?” I told her it was, and she said, “Give him a big kiss from me, smack on the lips.” I did not do this. I loved the guy, but not that much.
We may not have access to the original art of the AtomicKnights-on-Dalmatians Strange Adventures #144 cover that Mark mentions, but Michael Baulderstone sent us this copy of an interior splash from a black-&-white Australian reprint, so we figured you might like to ogle some of that gorgeous Murphy Anderson art. The script by John Broome wasn’t too shabby, either. [©2004 DC Comics.]
7
Julie Schwartz loved going to comic conventions, especially the annual Comic-Con International in San Diego. He loved being at the con, he loved seeing friends, he loved signing autographs. He especially loved answering questions about his work, and every time I had him on a panel—I did at least four dozen with him over the years—he’d goad me: “Ask me something you don’t know, something they [meaning the audience] don’t know.” I tried. Lord, how I tried…but it was tough sledding, especially in the later years when some anecdotes were rerun more often than “Chuckles Bites the Dust.” Year before last, I had what I thought was a brilliant idea: Scott Shaw! assembled a slide show of a couple of hundred of the odder covers that had appeared on Schwartz-edited comics. Then we did a panel where Scott projected said slides and I sat with a microphone to interview Julie and extract whatever recollections were evoked by each cover. It was sound in theory, but in practice it went more like this… ME: Here’s the cover of Strange Adventures #144, where you have the Atomic Knights riding giant Dalmatian dogs. How did you come up with an idea like that? JULIE: Boy, I don’t remember this cover at all. Last year, we had a wonderful panel with Julie, Ray Bradbury, and Forrest J. Ackerman, three longtime friends from the Paleolithic Era of science-fiction. Before it started, Julie told me to make sure and ask him to tell some of the secrets about Bradbury that only he, as Ray’s onetime agent and longtime friend, knew. I said fine. When we got into the panel itself in front of 1000+ rapt audience members, it went roughly like this: ME: Julie, you’ve known Ray here for close to seventy years. Tell us something about him that we don’t know. JULIE: [a long pause; then:] You’ll have to get back to me on that one. But I didn’t care, and most of the audience didn’t, either. The man was in his late eighties and he’d given so much, he didn’t have to give any more. What did drive me crazy was the occasional (like, every year)
8
Great Moments with Julius Schwartz (1915–2004)
matter of his hotel room in San Diego.
where you tell long stories about freedom and adventuring before you eat.
For a long time, DC Comics My father is a little bit younger paid to fly Julie out each year, and than Julie, but not much. The way they’d pick up the hotel costs and he runs a Seder is to assign things other expenses, as well. That was to people to read on the fly, while the case while he was actively he pages forward through the editing for the company, and also book looking for things to leave later, when he was semi-retired and out that he supposes no one serving as a kind of Good Will would miss. That way we can eat Ambassador for the company. sooner. Jewish holidays, in my Finally, though, the company could limited religious education, are no longer justify the expense, and usually about eating—sooner, if Julie had to either pay his own way possible. Apparently Julie had not or not go to the con. For a time, he been to a Seder in a number of paid his own way, but money got years. Jean was always the tight, so each year he’d call some Cary Bates (left) and Elliot S. Maggin (right) were a writing team in the midspiritual one in the family; she of us (always me, sometimes also ’70s, and were drawn on the cover of Amazing World of DC Comics #2 (Sept. went to church regularly, and I Harlan Ellison and others) and 1974) by no less a talent than Kurt Schaffenberger. [©2004 DC Comics.] guess he had always depended on urge us to use whatever clout we her to cover him in the area of grace. had to suggest that the con at least cover his hotel bill. He got to be a terrible, self-admitted nag about this, calling over and over, to the point There’s a crucial point at the beginning of the Seder ceremony when where Harlan and I were both ready to just pay for his room ourselves the youngest person at the table reads a short but rather difficult so we didn’t have to endure endless calls from Schwartz. I don’t think paragraph in Hebrew called “The Four Questions.” It’s the kickoff for either of us ever did pay, because every year, either the convention the storytelling part. My nephew Mitchell was not yet one year old, and would find it in the budget, or some other organization would sponsor my wife Pam, the next youngest, is generic Protestant and doesn’t do his appearance. Hebrew. So it fell to my youngest sister, Robin, to read the questions, and she never particularly enjoyed the role. First she complained in her Julie hounded the convention committee members with requests, as ritual manner about how long it had been since Hebrew school, and it well. A year or so ago, they decided that, in recognition of his magnifturned out she didn’t get to go through all the other caveats that icent contribution to the field, they would make him a “permanent” generally preceded her reluctant performance. guest of honor, meaning they would fly him out to every San Diego Con and put him up in a hotel room at their cost. When they told me of the “I haven’t been to Hebrew school since 1928,” Julie barked. “And decision, I was thrilled… and not just for Julie. I was thrilled for myself, watch this.” because it meant I wouldn’t have to put up with endless badgering to please, please talk to the convention about getting him a free room. I was And he read the Four Questions in perfect Hebrew, beginning to end, so happy I wanted to call him right up and tell him, but I didn’t. I without tripping over a syllable. So it was that the oldest person at the waited until the next con and let the convention officials tell him how it table asked the Four Questions this time. would henceforth be. Right after they did, he came over to me… and I assumed he was about to tell me how pleased he was and perhaps thank My father was thrilled. It brought us an entire whining-session closer me for whatever role I had played in making it happen. The entire to the food. exchange went like this… Julie was very proud of himself over this, of course. He generally JULIE: Have you heard? The convention’s going to fly me out every was. A few days later, back at work, he showed me a gold watch he’d year now and give me a hotel room. gotten for being the smartest kid in the Hebrew school he attended. It had Hebrew letters for the numbers, and I suggested it ought to run ME: Well, it couldn’t happen to a nicer guy. You deserve that, Julie. counter-clockwise, but it didn’t. You really do. And, of course, now you don’t have to ask me to talk to them for you. “The Governor’s wife came and gave this to me,” he said. And he waited for me to realize something, which I didn’t. He got impatient JULIE: Well, that’s just it. I was wondering if you could talk to them. quickly. You see, with my legs giving me trouble, I really need to be flown First Class…. “So who was the Governor’s wife in 1928?” he asked me. [NOTE FROM MARK: A number of fine writers worked with Julius Schwartz over the years. One was Elliot S. Maggin (often written out as Elliot S! Maggin), who I believe sold his first professional script to Julie, then followed it with hundreds more. Elliot just sent me this and asked that I post it here, and I am delighted to comply:]
ELLIOT S. MAGGIN Probably my favorite moment with Julie was kind-of a typical one: he was showing off like a kid. Sometime not long after Jean died—I guess it had to be maybe 20 or 25 years ago or so—I invited him over to my parents’ house for their Passover Seder, the annual ritual dinner
Then I realized who the Governor of New York was in the late 1920s—and that the watch was presented to him by Eleanor Roosevelt. Julie was impish and wide-eyed and always suffered a little from a touch of arrested development—even into his eighties—but the thing most people who knew him never really thought about much was how incredibly bright he always was. He had a mind that kept working and didn’t stop, I suspect, until early this morning. Eleanor Roosevelt noticed, though—and my little sister did. When we remember how it was that he could make so many of us happy, we might remember that a guy who knew as much as he knew, and understood as much as he understood, doesn’t do much by accident.
Three Easy Pieces
9
Starring Julius Schwartz
A Trio of Interviews with the Self-Confessed Architect of the Silver Age Conducted by Will Murray Transcribed by Briank Morris
[NOTE: In the combined pieces that follow, certain parts of the conversation which substantially repeat information related in Julie’s book Man of Two Worlds or in his interviews in Alter Ego #7 & #26 have been omitted, with bridging italicized summaries, primarily for reasons of space. In other places, to keep the flow, that duplicatory material has been kept. “A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds.” —Roy.]
INTRODUCTION by Will Murray Last summer, I heard that Julie Schwartz had been in a car accident and was recovering at home. We hadn’t spoken since running into each other at the All Time Classic Comics Convention back in the summer of 2000, at White Plains, New York. I realized it had been too long. Since I also had a number of articles in progress for which Julie’s knowledge and invaluable memory might be of assistance, I decided to use that as an excuse to call and hopefully cheer him up a little. I found Julie intellectually unchanged by his setback. His first question to me was “Who died?” Once I reassured him that I wasn’t bearing bad news, we caught up. While he did complain of difficulty walking and other limitations, he sounded exactly like the Julie Schwartz of old. I was relieved. I first met Julie back in the early ’80s when the late Mark Hanerfeld took me up to the DC offices and introduced us. Despite a vast difference in our ages, we connected because of our mutual interest in the old pulps and their writers. Not long afterward, he and Murphy Anderson began making regular appearances at PulpCon, and we grew friendly. Julie seemed determined to recuperate, and if possible to get back to the DC offices for his weekly appearance as Editor Emeritus. His chief concern was his mental clarity. He rattled off a short list of unusual names for me, explaining that this was a memory device he’d developed as a self-diagnostic tool. Some of the names were those of familiar comic book or literary talents. One was an obscure jazz singer. Unless I’m mistaken, Harlan Ellison was another. I was surprised to learn that writer Ron Goulart—whom Julie barely knew—was another.
We’re about to spend a long time with these two guys—so let’s see what they look like! Julie’s at left, of course, seen in the DC offices in March 1989— interviewer, author, and psychic Will Murray at right—flanking the cover of Strange Adventures #71 (Nov. 1961), which blended the genres of comic book and science-fiction so dear to both men. Art by Carmine Infantino (pencils) and Murphy Anderson (inks), repro’d from an Infantino-autographed photocopy of the original art—courtesy of Mike Burkey. Photos from the Julius Schwartz Collection and Will Murray, respectively. [Cover ©2004 DC Comics.]
“As long as I can recite those six names,” he told me, “I know I’m okay.” And so we caught up. With Julie’s indulgence, I rolled tape and began gathering information for future articles, not yet understanding that I was recording the first of several final reminiscences of this legendary figure. My first question dealt with pioneer DC Comics editor Whit Ellsworth...
10
A Trio of Interviews with the Self-Confessed Architect of the Silver Age
INTERVIEW # 1 Conducted on July 23, 2003 JULIUS SCHWARTZ: I don’t know what to tell you about Whitney Ellsworth. Do you want me to tell you he was a big boozer and a—? WILL MURRAY: I already know that. No, I don’t want to be too negative. [Julie laughs] Murray Boltinoff said, “I loved the guy. He could have been president of the company if he didn’t drink so much.” SCHWARTZ: Well, one good thing about him is that, when the war was over, a very attractive girl named Jean Ordwein went looking for a job and wound up at DC Comics. I sort-of took a fancy to her, but I was too shy in those days. I guess I still am kind-of shy. But finally, I asked if she’d like to go have a drink, and while we were having drinks down at the bar, Whit Ellsworth showed up and says, “Oh listen, I have two tickets to a Broadway show. I can’t attend tonight. Would you like to attend?” I think it was Pal Joey—I’m not sure. So this girl Jean and I went on this Broadway show, and two years later, we were married. I didn’t want to discuss my family in my book [Man of Two Worlds]. But I’m a Jewish boy and she was an Irish Catholic, so I don’t have to tell you any more. WM: Well, what was Whit like to work with? SCHWARTZ: Let me see how I can word this. Later on, when Irwin Donenfeld became the executive editor, or whatever, because he was so young, he held editorial conferences. Once a month, we’d get together to discuss what we should be doing. He was the first one to do it. Whit Ellsworth never had an editorial conference. In those days, DC was divided into two groups. One was Bob Kanigher and me; the other was Mort Weisinger, Murray Boltinoff, Bennie Breslauer, and Jack Schiff; and we never got together. Whit Ellsworth would have his own rapport with us. The only thing he ever did for me, outside of giving me those tickets to a Broadway show, was that when Strange Adventures went over very big, he wanted me to put out a companion science-fiction comic. I said, “Whit, impossible. There are no titles left.” In those days, there were about 30 or 40 science-fiction pulp magazines. “Oh,” he says, “that’s no problem. I have a great title for you: Mystery in Space.” I said, “That means I’ll have to do stories about space.” “Oh, no, no, no,” he says. “Space, to the average reader, means time travel, science-fiction,
The covers of both Strange Adventures #1 (1950) and Mystery in Space #1 (1951) were already seen on p. 4—so here’s a full-page house ad for S.A. #1 which appeared in comics with Aug.-Sept. 1950 cover dates. The actual cover was basically a touched-up still from the movie Destination Moon, which was adapted therein—but in this ad, someone has traced the still into a line drawing. As editor, Julie must’ve been thrilled to be presiding over a comic devoted to science-fiction, his first and greatest love. [©2004 DC Comics.]
and so on.” I said, “Well, why ‘Mystery’?” He says, “We have a House of Mystery that’s doing very well. I think it’s a key word. When you see the name ‘Mystery’ on a title, it’s a seller.” And that’s how Mystery in Space was born. He also asked me to put out some western comics. He said, “I want you to do a series about a character called Foley, and I have the title. It’s called ‘Foley of the Fighting 5th’.” He knew someone named Foley. [NOTE: See p. 9 on our flip side. —Roy.] I’m trying to think what else he contributed editorially. WM: Supposedly, he and Jack Schiff came up with Showcase as a concept. SCHWARTZ: That is absolutely incorrect. As far as I can recall, Irwin Donenfeld came up with Showcase. I can remember distinctly having editorial meetings where Showcase was talked about. You know the theory behind Showcase? We put out an issue, wait four months, and see how it does.
Pictures of Whitney Ellsworth at DC Comics are rare, but he was apparently more willing to be photographed when he became a TV producer. This pic of Ellsworth (right) and George Reeves was taken on the set of The Adventures of Superman during its final (1957) season, and is one of two photos of Ellsworth that appear in Jan Alan Henderson’s 1999 book Speeding Bullet: The Life and Bizarre Death of George Reeves; the other one was seen last issue. Thanks to David Siegel.
WM: It was based on a TV show that had a similar title and similar concept. SCHWARTZ: Once, when Marvel was doing so well [in the mid-1960s], Irwin had an editorial meeting and each editor was given as assignment, to read another DC editor’s comic. In other words, I was to read Mort Weisinger’s comic, Murray Boltinoff was to read Kanigher’s, and so on,
Three Easy Pieces Starring Julius Schwartz
called it, but I said, “Let’s put out a team of super-stars.” But I didn’t want to call it “Justice Society,” because in my eyes, a “society” is a social club and everyone knew what a “league” was. It’s a more commercial name, and that’s how “Justice League” was born.
and criticize it. And of course, [chuckles] we really couldn’t. But where the mistake was made—we should not have been criticizing our magazines. We should have been trying to figure out what was making Marvel so hot. WM: Right. What’s the point of chipping away at your own fellow editors? There’s already a certain level of competition. SCHWARTZ: When the first three Showcases failed, and it came time to do the fourth one, someone—it may have been me, but someone—suggested, “How about putting out ‘The Flash’ again?” And everyone sort-of objected: “What’s the point of putting out ‘The Flash’ when it died in 1949?” And someone pointed out, “Now wait a second. This is 1955; it’s six years later.” Back in those days, the average age of the comic reader was 8 to 12. “And since five or more years have passed, none of today’s readers are familiar with The Flash.” So it was agreed. Then Irwin said, “Well, who’s going to do it?” And for some reason, I got appointed, or I volunteered, or everyone pointed to me, I don’t know. And the deadline was very close. I shared an office with Robert Kanigher. We sat down and immediately plotted “The Flash.”
11
When the reports came in— Irwin Donenfeld used to get reports of how the magazine was doing. He wouldn’t give us the final figures, but he would say “up six,” “down three,” and so on. So all the Brave and Bold “Justice Leagues” had “up,” “very good,” “excellent.” When the final one came in, he didn’t give me a number. You know what he gave me? WM: What? SCHWARTZ: An exclamation point! [Will laughs] That was it. I had to get to work, to put out the magazine I’d assumed. WM: Whose idea was it to turn The Brave and the Bold from a historical book?
Here’s a curiosity, sent to Roy Thomas quite a few years ago. Someone (he doesn’t recall who) had an artist—undoubtedly a pro—draw a fantasy Justice League of America cover the way the assemblage might’ve looked if each of the heroes had been drawn by the artist then doing his/her regular solo series—much the way Jack Burnley had depicted the Justice Society back in All-Star Comics #11-13 in 1941-42. There’s a Bob Kane/Shelly Moldoff Batman— a Joe Certa-ish J’onn J’onzz, an Infantino Flash, a Gil Kane Atom, a Lee Elias Green Arrow, a Nick Cardy Aquaman, a Ross Andru Wonder Woman, a Curt Swan/ Al Plastino Superman—and, overhead, a Gil Kane Green Lantern. All in all, a great job! It would’ve been intriguing to see an entire issue of JLA done that way sometime. It was even done on official DC cover stock. [Heroes TM & ©2004 DC Comics; art ©2004 the respective copyright holders.]
I contributed, no matter what Kanigher may have said in his interviews; I distinctly remember how Flash would gain his superspeed. Jay Garrick got it by inhaling heavy water, right? But I wanted something more logical, more scientific. So I suggested a bolt of lightning hit the chemicals that splashed over Barry Allen. Since a bolt of lightning is 186,000 miles per second, that’s a reasonable way to do that. When time came to get an artist, I liked Carmine Infantino’s work, and he said he would do a quick job. In come his pencils, and I didn’t have an inker handy. It so happened Joe Kubert was in the office and I said, “Joe, how would you like to ink this Carmine Infantino ‘Flash’ story?” He said, “Sure, I have nothing to do and no assignment.” It was one of the few instances where he inked somebody else’s work, except for maybe when he was 14 years old, but he had already made a name for himself. So that’s the lucky break. And of course, you know that when Flash went over, I did Green Lantern, and the only thing I used was the title. I even made it a point that he would wear the Power Ring on the right hand, contrasted to the original Golden Age Green Lantern who had it on the left finger. Then, of course, when that succeeded, it came time for the Justice League. I suggested putting out the Justice—well, I don’t know what I
SCHWARTZ: That I don’t recall. My guess is that the magazine wasn’t doing well, in contrast to Showcase doing well. And of course, “Justice League” appeared in The Brave and Bold, what, #28, was it? WM: Yeah, something like that. So your opinion of Whit is essentially positive?
SCHWARTZ: Whit never had an editorial meeting. [pause] The last time I saw him, when he was doing the Superman show out in California and eventually retired. He was a very big smoker, tremendously big. On one occasion, my wife and I drove across the country to L.A., and were being taken around by Ray Bradbury. On the way west, we stopped at [sf and comics writer] Edmond Hamilton’s house in Newcastle, Pennsylvania. The Hamiltons—Leigh Brackett and Ed—and my wife and I were very close. We intended to spend a few days with the Hamiltons. But when we got to their place, Leigh wasn’t there. She’d flown out to California to work on a new John Wayne movie—I think Rio Lobo, but I’m not sure. So I said, “Ed, do me a favor. Where’s she staying?” He said, “She’s staying in a big apartment house—the Lawrence Welk Apartment House.” I said, “Will you please call Leigh and tell her to rent the room for a few weeks, so that when we got out there, we’d have someplace to stay?” So when we did get out there, Leigh put us up. We had dinner, and on one occasion she said, “I’m going to cook you your favorite dinner. What is it?” I said, “Leg of lamb, over brown potatoes.” But the point I’m getting at: I called Whit Ellsworth and he says,
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A Trio of Interviews with the Self-Confessed Architect of the Silver Age the inside cost a quarter. On the outside, they only cost a dime.” WM: [sighs] That’s Mort. SCHWARTZ: Mort had an Uncle Max. This is way back in the Depression in the early ’30s. Uncle Max had maybe $40-50,000 in the bank, which is equivalent to a million, really. So Mort says, “Someday, I’m going to have $40-50,000 in the bank,” which he did. He wound up a millionaire, thanks mainly to Jack Liebowitz, who played the stock market and gave him tip after tip. And the big horror, the big sad thing about Mort’s life—he was looking forward to collecting Social Security, and he died at the age of 63. (Left to right:) Vintage photos of Julius Schwartz, sf/comics writer Edmond Hamilton, and sf writer Jack Williamson—and Leigh Brackett, who, in between her own sf and mystery books, co-wrote screenplays as divergent as The Big Sleep (based on the Raymond Chandler novel), John Wayne mega-westerns, and The Empire Strikes Back. These photos, and a few others in this section, were printed in James Gunn’s superb 1975 tome Alternate Worlds: The Illustration History of Science Fiction. Since it featured dozens upon dozens of photographs of science-fiction writers, Julie must have loved it!
“Come on over, we’ll have a nice barbecue.” So I said, “Listen, do you mind if I bring a friend of mine… Leigh Brackett?” “Oh,” he says. “Who is Leigh Brackett?” I said, “It’s the wife of Edmond Hamilton.” “Oh, okay, bring her out.” So we had a nice time, and all I remember on that occasion is Whit smoking, smoking, smoking. And shortly thereafter, he was gone. WM: That’s too bad. He wrote the Batman newspaper strip around the time you were doing “Batman.” He did a sequence with Poison Ivy, and I’m wondering if he’d come up with that, or did Poison Ivy come out of your office? SCHWARTZ: I’m not familiar with what went on with the syndicate. Poison Ivy I suggested to Robert Kanigher. Other people may disagree. Kanigher had a very close relationship with Robin Snyder, a fan who puts out a magazine called The Comics! And Kanigher told him horrible lies about me, like: “Julie would be on the phone all day talking to his wife.” But he didn’t know—my wife died of emphysema, and she had a series of medications she had to take in sequence every hour or so. It was my job to call her up and say, “Jean, take medicine number one.” An hour later, “Medicine number two.”
WM: [laughs] I thought Mort, the one time I met him, he was very kind to me— SCHWARTZ: Oh, he could send the charm all around.
WM: —and I remember that because I was very young. He was the first person in comics I ever interviewed. I went to his house in Great Neck, and I wish I had talked to him more. I went there with Mark Hanerfeld. You know, he was very kind to me and—
SCHWARTZ: Well, publicity was coming out of it, too. WM: Well, true. Nevertheless, I thought he was an interesting person who’d had an interesting life. SCHWARTZ: He was indeed. I’m not denying that at all. WM: He had, certainly, a dark side, or a negative side, or a commercial side, or a greedy side, whatever you want to call it, or a troubled side—but a lot of people do. I’m not making excuses for him, but if you’re going to write about someone, especially someone who’s had a lot of negative publicity, it’s a good antidote to write about the positive side. One of the reasons I’m writing about Ellsworth and
But Mort Weisinger, you know, was my closest friend. WM: Yeah, I know. I’m probably the only guy who wrote a positive article about Mort Weisinger, back in Comic Book Marketplace about five years ago. I’m only interested if a story has something to do with the creativity of things. SCHWARTZ: So, I can’t tell you my baseball story? WM: Sure. SCHWARTZ: The big brass had a box seat at Yankee Stadium, and if they weren’t going to attend a game, the editors would go. So on one occasion, Mort and I would get the box seats at the Yankee Stadium, very close to a baseball diamond. So I said, “Well, let’s take a cab, Mort.” And Mort says, “No, no, no, no. Let’s take the subway. We’ll get there faster.” He didn’t want to spend the money on a cab. But it’s true, the subway got us there faster. When we get out of the subway—BAM! We hear the roar of the crowd. I said, “Mort, come on. The game’s started.” He said, “Wait a second, wait a second.” I said, “What’s the matter?” He says, “We’ll buy our peanuts on the outside.” I said, [exasperated] “Mort, we’ll buy the goddam peanuts on the inside.” He says, “Are you crazy? Peanuts on
Now It Can Be Told! Although they worked in the same office for years and even produced the very first story of the Silver Age Flash together in 1956, Julie Schwartz and Robert Kanigher (the latter shown here) did not like each other, even a little bit. R.K. was often acerbic in his comments about his longtime office-mate, though Julie seldom responded in kind. For Julie’s version of how Kanigher got his job at DC, see our flip side, p. 9. At right is a panel from the Kanigher-scripted “Flash” origin for Showcase #4 (Oct. 1956)—penciled by Carmine Infantino, inked by Joe Kubert, and edited by Julie—but, as J.S. himself once said, he did “very little editing on Kanigher.” [Flash page ©2004 DC Comics.]
Three Easy Pieces Starring Julius Schwartz
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Maxwell and Wheeler-Nicholson is that they’re not here to speak for themselves. And they all played their part in something of interest, and so it’s good to put things into a broader context than “Don Cameron tried to throw him out the office,” “He was bad,” “He was this,” “He was that”…. SCHWARTZ: There’s a mixed-up story about someone being thrown out of the office. Who was it? WM: Alvin Schwartz claims it was Don Cameron. SCHWARTZ: My understanding is that could have been David Vern, who wrote under the name “David V. Reed.” I wasn’t there, but I’ll tell you my side of the story. Dave was always late delivering things, and I was going on vacation, so I left a check with Kanigher. I said, “When Dave brings in the story, make sure you stay to give him the check.” So sure enough, Dave comes in with the story unfinished, so Kanigher wouldn’t give him the check, so Dave threatened to throw him out the window. I wasn’t there, I don’t know if it was true, it may not have been true. But there may have been more than one occasion where editors [chuckles] ought to be thrown out a window. We had two different offices, two different windows. Why the window? Why not punch him out?
Photo taken at the “Dead Dog Party” after the First World Science Fiction Convention, held to coincide with the 1939 New York World’s Fair. (L. to r., standing:) Morojo (real name = Myrtle R. Douglas), Julie, Otto Binder, Mort Weisinger, Jack Darrow. (Seated:) Forrest J. Ackerman, Ross Rocklynne, Charles D. Hornig, and a very young Ray Bradbury. This photo from the Julius Schwartz Collection was first printed in Sam Moskowitz’s 1954 sf fan history, The Immortal Storm. From the Julius Schwartz Collection; special thanks to Bill Schelly.
WM: Well, maybe because he’d get punched back. But if you throw someone out of the window, that’s a real threat, right? On another subject, you mentioned somewhere, or it was mentioned somewhere that, in your Solar Sales Service, you had agented [Doc Savage pulp writer] Lester Dent.
SCHWARTZ: Oh, that’s not true. I’m not sure if I met Lester Dent. I know you were ghost-writing [some Doc Savage paperbacks]. I remember your relationship with Lester Dent. Didn’t you print in your article that Mort Weisinger and Lester Dent wrote both scenes in rowboats on the lake? WM: No, they were in a boat, and Mort told me that Dent invited him to go on a three-day trip on his little schooner. [NOTE: A photo of Weisinger and Dent on board was printed in A/E #7. —Roy.] SCHWARTZ: And don’t forget, whatever Mort told you may or may not be true. WM: Okay, but this is a story on Mort, so I think it’s true. He accidentally set fire to the galley and it had to be put out. So I think that’s true. It didn’t flatter Mort any. But there was something reprinted in a fanzine that was a Solar Sales Service catalogue, or a flyer, and it listed Dent as a client. SCHWARTZ: No. I have no recollection of meeting him. He wasn’t one of my clients. Absolutely not true. WM: Okay, that settles that. But, occasionally, Dent would have rejects and would pass them around. And I could certainly see him tossing a reject at Mort and saying, “See if you can sell this.”
And when Mort heard that, he claimed he asked for the [comics] job. But I’ve heard elsewhere that he was hired, essentially, to handle Jerry Siegel. SCHWARTZ: I don’t know if Mort even knew Siegel at this point. I mean, there may have been correspondence. I’m trying to remember why Whit offered Mort the job. Of course, when Mort was drafted, he persuaded Jack Schiff, who did not have an editorial job at that point— Schiff was freelancing for the editor of—what was the detective magazine the Munsey people put out? WM: Detection Fiction Weekly. The editor was Ken Crossen. SCHWARTZ: Ken Crossen, yeah. Jack Schiff and Ken Crossen were a writing team. [NOTE: Ken Crossen, creator of the Green Lama pulp, comics, and radio hero as “Richard Foster,” also later published comics as Spark Publications. —Will.] This is my recollection. I agented a few of their stories. I forget their joint name. It’s so many years later, but “Floyd Gayle” could have been a pseudonym the two of them used. Anyway, when Mort was drafted, he persuaded Jack to take the job: “I’m pointing out that when the war is over, I get my job back and you’re out.” But of course, Jack did such a wonderful job, they had room for both editorial positions. I’d like you to solve a problem for me. What do you know about Dorothy Roubicek, the early days? Forget the fact that she married William Woolfolk, and all that. Where did she come from? WM: I don’t know.
SCHWARTZ: As a matter of fact, I did most of the Solar Sales Service. Within a year or so, Mort had written a story and Jack Schiff liked it enough to offer him a job [at the Thrilling/Standard/Nedor pulp magazine group]. So Mort said, “Julie, I’m taking an editorial job. Solar Sales Service is all yours.”
SCHWARTZ: Well, the reason I got my job is that Dorothy went to marry a guy named Walter Galli, and [All-American editor] Shelly Mayer needed a story editor [to replace her], and he hired me. You know all that. Well, that marriage didn’t last long and eventually she married Bill Woolfolk. But what I want to know is, if Dorothy Woolfolk was working for Shelly Mayer, where did she come from?
WM: Mort told me he was having lunch with Ellsworth, who’d written for him at Standard, after Ellsworth took over DC in 1940, and Ellsworth pointed out that each one of his comic books outsold any pulp group currently being published—because a top pulp in 1940 was probably selling 200–250,000 copies. Comics were above that.
My feeling is that she came from DC Comics. In one obituary, her daughter claimed she did—so my guesswork is she was working in some editorial capacity up at DC before she worked for Shelly. And during the radio days, it was she—this is what was written up—who came up with the idea of Kryptonite being a weakness for Superman. In other
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A Trio of Interviews with the Self-Confessed Architect of the Silver Age WM: Probably because he was the one who wrote some of those stories where Batman was using a gun, and maybe they didn’t like his style on “Batman.” SCHWARTZ: Well, the other theory is—it depends on when Vin Sullivan left. You know, he and Sullivan were classmates. It’s possible that when Vin Sullivan left, Gardner Fox left. WM: Yeah, he was orphaned. It’s quite possible, but back to Dorothy Roubicek. You know, during the war, Murray Boltinoff got drafted, Mort got drafted, and Whit Ellsworth had to fill those holes. The other possibility is: Bob Maxwell had Maxwell Productions. On radio, he did Hop Harrigan, he did Superman, he launched House of Mystery as a radio show before it was a comic book. She may have worked in his office and slid over to DC at some point when that happened. SCHWARTZ: That could well be. I’m sorry I missed the opportunity, last year, when I was out in San Diego, and Bill Woolfolk was out there—I don’t know if she ever confided to him about her early days in comics. WM: Because the only thing that fits what you’re telling me is she came out of Bob Maxwell’s office. Maxwell Productions, Inc., was an independent company. I’ve got a letter he wrote to Howard Wandrei on that stationery, about getting the rights to a Donald Wandrei story for A trio of major Golden/Silver Age writers—(top to bottom:) Jerry Siegel, Bill Finger, Gardner Fox—with previously unpublished illos of the most famous heroes they co-created: Superman (pencil sketch by Curt Swan, courtesy of Marv Wolfman)— Batman (pencil drawing by Bob Kane, also courtesy of Marv’s late-’60s/early-’70s sketchbook—and Marv actually saw him draw it!)—and The Flash (pencil sketch by Carlos Pacheco, courtesy of the artist via Pedro Angosto). [Art ©2004 the respective artist; heroes TM & ©2004 DC Comics.]
words, she was in an editorial capacity up there, and presumably the radio scriptwriters were consulting with her. So rather than the radio scriptwriters coming up with the weakness so Bud Collyer [the actor who played Superman] could take his vacation, it was Dorothy who dreamed it up. WM: Well, of course, the idea, as you saw in the new Alter Ego [#26], started with Jerry Siegel, a thing called K-Metal. SCHWARTZ: Well, I’ve heard that. You’ll have to ask Mark Waid, who is the ultimate authority on that. Here’s another strange situation: Bill Finger, who was writing “Batman,” was invariably late, right? Never got a script out on time. So how come, when Shelly Mayer was going to do a feature called “Green Lantern,” it was Bill Finger, the notorious latecomer Bill Finger, who was hired to do it? If he could go down to Shelly Mayer’s place and write “Green Lantern,” why couldn’t he stay uptown and do “Batman” on time? WM: It might be simply that they wanted a big kick-off and it was worth waiting for. They wanted the first [“Green Lantern”] story to be high quality. SCHWARTZ: I thought you were trying to say that he was cashing in on the publicity that Bill Finger, who co-created “Batman.” No, my thing is that Bill was almost let go. And Gardner Fox—he started writing up at DC—so how come he wound up with Shelly Mayer [at AA]?
Three Easy Pieces Starring Julius Schwartz House of Mystery on radio. He had his own office; he had his wife working with him. He must have had a lot of people under him, because he had two or three radio shows going on at different points. So if Dorothy was involved with the Kryptonite creation, it would have probably come out of Maxwell’s office and slid over into DC.
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(Left:) Jack Schiff; photo courtesy of Will Murray. (Right:) Bernard Breslauer; photo courtesy of Joe Desris.
SCHWARTZ: Bernie Breslauer and Jack Schiff were tainted, let’s put it that way. I don’t think they were members of the Communist Party, but they were…
SCHWARTZ: It sounds very plausible to me. And if it can’t be denied or confirmed, you can say this is the best theory that you have working. And if anyone wants to come out to deny it, fine—then you’ll know the true story. That is a whole article about itself—the multi-marriages of Dorothy—I hate to say I don’t even know her maiden name. And you might pursue, also, the Ted Udall story. His real name was Yigdol, you know. [NOTE: Jerry Bails’ Who’s Who in 20th-Century American Comic Books gives his real last name as “Ingals.” A shadowy photo of Udall and Julie appeared in A/E #7—which is still available from TwoMorrows. —Roy.] I’m just guessing that was his family name. He probably modernized it to “Udall.” If you look at the early issues of Shelly’s magazines, they sometimes had credits, and Ted Udall was listed as the scriptwriter. Now, my question is: when Ted Udall was drafted, that’s when Dorothy took over, and when Dorothy was getting married, that’s when I took over. But who was there before Ted Udall? Shelly didn’t have time to plot, edit, proofread, and do the artwork. Someone once mentioned the artist who did “Hop Harrigan”—what was that guy’s name? [NOTE: Jon Blummer. —Roy.] This is a wild guess on my part, that he may have been serving in an editorial capacity. This is all interesting stuff and I think it’s important. If you can possibly track down the editorial line-up, starting with All-American Comics from number one, right to the time when we teamed up with DC. WM: When you were at All-American, did Whit have any crossover? SCHWARTZ: None. Shelly Mayer did his books and Whit did his. And when we moved from Lafayette Street uptown, we each had separate offices; we did not have any communication with each other. It’s possible that Shelly may have talked to Whit, but I would doubt it. WM: At what point did the two companies kind-of merge editorially, in the way it ultimately became? SCHWARTZ: Oh, my guess is that when Shelly gave up his editorial to concentrate on his artwork [in 1948]—you know he had very poor eyesight—that’s when Whit became the editorial director of both the former All-American and the original DC. And as I said, no meetings, no gettogethers. Every once in a while, Whit would say, “Listen, Jack Schiff’s department is doing Big Town. It’s not doing too well, or they haven’t got time, I want you guys to take it over.” Just like that. He did the same thing with one of the western magazines. Which one, I don’t remember. But that was the way it was, no editorial meetings, no communication. WM: Alvin Schwartz has said Mort tried to get Jack Schiff fired during the McCarthy era. Supposedly, Whit saved Schiff’s job when Mort was
agitating that “We can’t have a Red on our staff,” or whatever the phrase would have been at that time.
WM: Fellow travelers, whatever they call them. SCHWARTZ: That’s the correct term, yeah. WM: Now, Breslauer came out of Standard, too? SCHWARTZ: Yeah, he was one of the editors up there. There was also a guy at Standard named Oscar Friend. He wrote a few stories for me, in Strange Adventures. I had a title—“The Rock and Roll Kid from Mars”—and he wrote that story. Later in life, he became a literary agent. He took over from a writer named Otis Adelbert Kline. He was very close with Otto Binder. WM: I think Mort’s photograph album is at a university now, because his papers ended up being donated to some university out west. SCHWARTZ: Well, Mort went to NYU. [chuckles] He was originally going to be a dentist. WM: I thought it was a doctor. SCHWARTZ: It may have been, but my vague recollection is that he was going to be a dentist. Incidentally, his brother did become a dentist. So Mort, I think, managed to hit one year at NYU before he was drafted to become an editor. And if it’s of any interest, Mort Weisinger, Eddie Weisinger, and I were fanatical Contract Bridge players. Otto Binder, also, but he wasn’t very good. Mort was terrible, by the way. WM: There was a Standard writer, George Fielding Elliot, who was also a big Bridge player. SCHWARTZ: I remember Elliot as a major pulp writer, but I didn’t know he played Bridge. Talking about Bridge, the greatest of all is that guy who created The Flash. Harry Lampert. [NOTE: Lampert, who was interviewed in A/E #4, was the original artist of the title hero in Flash Comics #1-2. —Roy.] He’s written books on the subject. Whenever he sees me, he says, “Let’s talk Bridge.” I queried him in San Diego about the creation of The Flash—he said he and Shelly had worked the uniform out—but he only did two or three issues of Flash and then— who was the other Flash artist that took over? He was one pain in the ass. He lived in New Jersey.
Dorothy Roubicek Woolfolk and then-husband Bill Woolfolk in 1955. Photo courtesy of Donald Woolfolk.
WM: E.E. Hibbard. SCHWARTZ: E.E. Hibbard, yeah, yeah. WM: Hey, I have another question: “The Star Rovers.” I was reading one of the reprints, and you had a little box saying it wasn’t going to be a series originally. There were three Rovers: Karel Sorenson, Homer Glint, and Rick Purvis. The big game hunter novelist, Homer Glint—were you inspired by Lester Dent for that character? “Homer
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A Trio of Interviews with the Self-Confessed Architect of the Silver Age
Glint” sounds like “Lester Dent,” who was also a writer and explorer. SCHWARTZ: I created the “Star Rovers” series, but I’m trying to think who wrote the stories. Was it Otto Binder? It could have been Gardner. “Homer Glint” sounds like the science-fiction writer, Homer Ian Flint, which is more likely to me. Mort deliberately plagiarized an Amazing Stories [pulp] cover about giant turtle men for a Jimmy Olsen. People hated to work with Mort… you know that. You’ve heard the story that a writer would submit a plot, and Mort would reject it and then give it to the next guy. Whether that’s true or not, I don’t know. WM: A lot of people say it. Of course, it was a way to make Mort look like he was more valuable and more knowledgeable than he was, because he was not really a big writer. SCHWARTZ: No, and I think he would instruct Nelson Bridwell to dig up “Superman” stories from the 1950s and replot them. WM: Mort used to write for the pulps occasionally. Did he ever use pen names that you knew of, besides “Tom Irwin Geris” [an anagram of “Mort Weisinger”]? I thought there were other names, because he said he wrote for Secret Agent X, and I looked through every issue in an index and I never saw his name or “Tom Irwin Geris.” They might have put it under a house name. SCHWARTZ: I suppose that’s very possible. You ought to track down whether his widow is still with us. Last I heard, she was in a retirement community out in the California area. And why don’t you get hold of Mort’s son, for Christ’s sake? I remember Mort’s sister Carol came up to the office once with her granddaughter—I think it was a granddaughter—she wanted to show her granddaughter where her grandfather used to work. Mort’s son is named Hank. Hank did something that Mort was trying to do and never made it. You know, Mort wrote a book called The Contest. And when I say he was writing a book—
to think who it was. Who edited the book? It was Dorothy, I think. But anyway, Mort was hoping The Contest would make the bestseller list. And I can’t prove this, but my understanding is that he said he would go down to Washington and Baltimore, to the major book stores, and buy up lots of copies, hoping the [New York] Times would use them as a basis for the bestsellers list. But he never made it. Now his son may be a PhD, I don’t recall. But he wrote a book along those lines. and his son did make the bestseller list in the Times. Boy, you hit a bonanza with me, didn’t you? Always rely on Schwartz to get the insight. WM: You know who I interviewed recently? Lew Sayre Schwartz, the third Schwartz. [NOTE: Lew Schwartz ghosted “Batman” stories for Bob Kane from 1946 to 1953. —Roy.] SCHWARTZ: Yeah. I didn’t know him very well. But yeah, we were all Schwartzes in here. [laughs] WM: There were a lot of Schwartzes around Batman. In fact, that’s how I started my article: “There were many Schwartzes associated with Batman, but the one that nobody knows about is Lew Sayre Schwartz.” He was a nice guy. All the Schwartzes, apparently, are nice guys. SCHWARTZ: Isn’t that funny?
INTERVIEW # 2 Conducted on Oct. 2, 2003 SCHWARTZ: [laughs] When you called all of a sudden, that’s twice in two or three months. What’s up? WILL MURRAY: Well, I did say I’d try to stay more closely in touch. We talked about William Woolfolk last time. Well, he died the day we were talking.
WM: [chuckles] Yeah, it was in the loose sense of writing the book. Ryerson Johnson said he did a few chapters. [NOTE: Ryerson “Johnny” Johnson was a pulp writer specializing in westerns who also ghosted Doc Savage novels; his comics work included Dale Evans and “The Wyoming Kid” for DC. —Will.] Dave Vern did a few… SCHWARTZ: Yeah. You know his original name was David Levine. WM: Right. And I think there was another writer who might have done a few chapters. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, I’m trying (Above:) The 1980 Fireside/DC trade paperback Mysteries in Space, edited by Michael Uslan, featured a great new Murphy Anderson cover combining three famous Schwartz motifs: space hero (Adam Strange)—gorillas (with wings, yet!)—and what Julie and publisher Irwin Donenfeld called “Earth in a strange position”… in this case, skewered by a giant arrow thrown by the ape! That’s what we call touching all the bases—and we didn’t even print the back of that wraparound cover! (Right:) Splash of the “Star Rovers” story reprinted therein, from Mystery in Space #74 (March 1962)— script by Gardner Fox, art by Sid Greene. [©2004 DC Comics.]
Three Easy Pieces Starring Julius Schwartz
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SCHWARTZ: I read, shortly thereafter, that he passed away, and I was very sorry. I knew him quite well, and when I saw him in San Diego, I missed my opportunity to ask him some very key questions about his wife Dorothy Roubicek—where did she come from before she worked for Shelly Mayer? WM: Dorothy Manning was a name she used as a writer. I don’t know whether that was a real name or a pen name. I wanted to see how you’re doing. SCHWARTZ: Well, I’m improving to a certain extent. I have now started going back to DC. I used to go down there once a week. I just hang out there to see what’s going on, I visit with some of the guys, and it’s something to do because I don’t do much during the week. I’m 88 years, plus. Oh, also, at a quarter after eleven every time I go in, I call Harlan Ellison and we talk for a half hour. WM: I’m doing an article on a very obscure individual I dug up some information on, and he apparently worked for you. A writer named Lynn Perkins. Do you remember him? I don’t know if he’s alive or dead at this point, but he had claimed to have written for Strange Adventures. So that makes it you.
The covers of Strange Adventures #9-10 (June-July 1951), the first two issues to feature “Captain Comet,” penciled by Carmine Infantino. Only a few months before, Julie had presided over the final super-hero-studded issue of All-Star Comics, which some folks count as the end of the Golden Age; but already he was introducing a brand new super-hero—and the first one to be called a mutant, to boot! [Covers ©2004 DC Comics.]
SCHWARTZ: Yeah, that would make it me. But what I remember about Lynn Perkins—and I may be wrong—but you know I was a literary agent before I got into comics. And among the magazines I dealt with was Weird Tales. The editor there was Farnsworth Wright. But he was dismissed, since he operated out of Chicago, and it was sold to a New York group. They put out some pulp magazines, among them Short Stories, and they also took over Weird Tales, and the editor was a woman named Dorothy MacIlwraith. To my knowledge, Perkins was her first reader. WM: That’s right. In fact, I dug up an interview with Perkins from 1943, about the days when he worked at Fawcett Comics, and it mentions he’d come to New York in 1939 from Rio de Janeiro, where he’d been born, although he was British, grew up in London. His first job in the US was to be a reader or an associate editor, or whatever it was, on Short Stories and Weird Tales. SCHWARTZ: He was quite tall, great, good-looking, blond hair, as I recall. But that’s about all. Where he went after he left Weird Tales, I don’t know. Don’t forget, I edited Strange Adventures maybe the first fifteen years or so. When I took over “Batman,” I had to give up Strange Adventures and Mystery in Space to Jack Schiff, so Perkins may have written for Schiff. WM: Yeah, but he got out of comics in the late ’40s or early ’50s, and claimed to have written “Superman” and “Batman” in ’46, ’47 and ’48, so that makes me think he did Strange Adventures in the very beginning. He is supposed to have worked for Republic Pictures for a while. Beyond that, I don’t know. I think he was in public relations in the ’70s, and whether he’s still alive or not is your guess. SCHWARTZ: Is he important enough to delve into his background? WM: Only in this sense: he gave a very lengthy interview for this obscure writers magazine called Writer’s Journal, and he talked at great length about writing and editing comics. And the quotes are so good, I thought I’d weave them into an article and get some quotes from people who knew him, and create a piece of—
SCHWARTZ: A whole bunch of trivia, right. WM: Essentially trivia, but there’s a certain coherence to it. It’s not just random stuff. SCHWARTZ: Maybe Jerry Bails can help you. He’s the ultimate authority. WM: I did contact Jerry. I guess he’d been in touch with Perkins and gotten the information that he’d written “Superman” and “Batman” and for Strange Adventures. But that’s as far as it goes. So I have talked to other people who worked with him—two of them at Fawcett—enough to do an article that is interesting because it’s not someone talking fifty years ago, it’s someone talking about what they were doing in 1943 in comics, and so their perspective is interesting. He talks about how he thought comics were an important medium for the future, and that those who wrote comics would eventually write TV when TV got off the ground, and he was essentially correct in that regard. And he had some interesting points of view on how to do comics and what comics were. He was an enthusiast about the comics medium. SCHWARTZ: Really? I talked to him from time to time. I don’t think comics ever came up into the discussion. WM: When he was working at Weird Tales, he got interested in scripting comics, and he did start freelancing and selling things, and that ultimately led to a job at Fawcett. SCHWARTZ: Well, at that point, I had no interest in comics myself—so it never came up. What was his full name? WM: Henry Avelyn Perkins. He later became known as “Lynn.” I don’t think he was “Lynn Perkins” at Weird Tales. He was “Henry Perkins” in 1943 and in later years he took his middle name and he called himself “Lynn.” SCHWARTZ: I assume you have no photograph of him. Nothing burns me up more than these articles that Roy Thomas and all the others do.
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A Trio of Interviews with the Self-Confessed Architect of the Silver Age
1946 IDYLL NOTE FROM ROY: As he tells Will Murray here, Julie occasionally (!) chided editor Roy Thomas about not running enough photos in Alter Ego—to which Ye Editor usually replied that he felt that was a bum rap. But, now having access to much of the fabulous Julius Schwartz Collection, nothing could’ve stopped us from squeezing in as many rare photos as we could fit into this issue (and into #40, two months from now)! One large grouping of black-&-white pix are all dated 1946—and most, at least, were probably even taken on the same day, July 6, in Gaylordsville, Connecticut, when the future Mrs. Schwartz was still Jean Ordwein, whom Julie called, understandably, “the prettiest girl in the office.” (Another picture of Jean taken that day appears on p. 9 of our flip side.) [Top row:] (a) Jean & Julie. (b) The notation on this one is: “Blackheart [Julie] watching the mother of his children at play”—though in 1946 those children were still in the future. Where the “Blackheart” nickname came from, we’ve no idea! Anybody out there ever hear Julie called that? (c) Julie, writer/best friend John Broome, & Mrs. Peggy Broome. [Bottom row:] (a) Notation on this horseshoes-tossing pic of John & Julie is: “The one game at which Blackheart [Julie] is a flop (aside from Casino).” (b) John & Peggy Broome. (c) Notation reads: “Julie & Jean Schwartz, John & Peggy Broome, & Dave Feuerstein, 1946.” Marc Svensson tells us that the latter was John’s brother-in-law... and we kinda suspect that the lady is thus not Peggy, but her sister Mindy, who was married to Dave Feuerstein. (See yet another pic from this era on p. 22 of our flip side.) You want photos, Julie? I’ll give you photos—especially since you supplied so many of them yourself!
They delve into John Buscema and these people, and they may or may not show you a photograph. To me, the most important thing is what he looked like. Okay with the artwork or the writing, but what does the guy look like? When I started to read science-fiction in Amazing Stories, back in ’28 or so, all these names were up and I always wondered, what did these guys look like? Fortunately, when Gernsback left Amazing and started Science Wonder Stories, he had illustrated photographs, I guess you might say, so I finally saw what David H. Keller looked like. Of course, he’s my favorite writer. So I keep telling Roy Thomas. He says, “Julie, I agree with you, but I have no photographs of some of them.” WM: You know, Mort Weisinger had a great scrapbook. [NOTE: Will apparently pronounces the name as “wize’-in-jur.” —Roy.] SCHWARTZ: “Guh,” “guh”… hard G. WM: Yes, excuse me. I always do that and you’ll always correct me. That’ll be our password. [laughs] SCHWARTZ: That’s all right. Maybe you’ll learn and say “Weisinger.” and then I’ll say, “jur.” WM: I had it right for a while and I slipped back to my old ways. Well, Mort had a great scrapbook he showed me once of all these great science-fiction people and comics people. And I think that’s at a
university somewhere. Someone ought to go and make copies of it. SCHWARTZ: I don’t think he had it, because I have such an album. I have old photographs of all the writers back in the late ’30s and early ’40s, in many cases with autographs underneath the photographs. Which, incidentally, is a treasure. I don’t know what to do with it at the moment. I’d love to find a buyer. Incidentally, Greg Bear, a very good writer out in Seattle, told me in San Diego that they’re starting the equivalent of a science-fiction museum. He wanted to interview me, but he wanted to do it back at the Hyatt, a block or two away from the Convention Center, and I said, “I just can’t make it.” If he knew about this album, I think that’s exactly what he wants, but I have something that’s even better. I used to do a slide show when I went to conventions. It was called “The Origin and Creation of Science Fiction Fandom and Magazines,” and it had 80 slides, with photographs of all the writers back in those days, and stories about them, anecdotes. And this is on a tape. And he would probably love to have that, too, for his collection. But getting back to the book, what am I going to do with this photographic album? I’d like to get some money out of it. I know you can put it on eBay…. WM: Or you can find, through the network of collectors, someone who would really, really be interested and really willing to pay the money. I’d have to think about that a little bit.
Three Easy Pieces Starring Julius Schwartz SCHWARTZ: It not only has photographs from A to Z, but then it probably has about 30 or 40 of the first World Science Fiction Convention. It has about 30 photographs of the convention tryout to see whether the Worldcon would go over. That was held in Newark in 1938. What the hell were their names? We called them “the Rebels of Fandom.” It was Donald Wollheim—
of my favorite strips. SCHWARTZ: Mine, too. And we had a lot of fun with it. WM: Yeah. Not a lot of people talk about it the way they do “Atomic Knights” and “Space Museum,” but it happened to have been one of my favorites… and I can’t tell you why. It was a little bit offbeat and it just had an appeal. In the first one, which I read for the first time recently, Ilda had a very different design. Do you remember changing the design?
WM: Oh, yeah. Those guys, the Futurists. SCHWARTZ: The Futurists, yeah. I have a lot of photographs of them. And then I have photographs of the trips that Mort Weisinger, Otto Binder, and I took to California in ’39 and ’40; and I have photographs of the time I went with Edmond Hamilton, and I first got around to meeting Ray Bradbury. He used to hang around, trying to get tips from Edmond Hamilton on how to write. I have a lot of photographs. While I’m alive, I hate to part with them, but I gotta figure out, if I should die unexpectedly, the grandchildren…
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SCHWARTZ: No. Who illustrated that? Sam Moskowitz (left) & Donald A. Wollheim—two fervent (but often feuding) science-fiction fans in the 1930s and ’40s. Moskowitz became an historian of sf, and especially of sf fandom, with his 1954 book The Immortal Storm—while, in the 1960s, Wollheim founded the very successful DAW Books line. Both photos appeared in James Gunn’s irreplaceable 1975 Alternate Worlds.
You know Sam Moskowitz [late science-fiction fan and historian]? He had a very close friend who used to come to these conventions and get hundreds of autographs. He’d collect them in books. Then, one day, Sam had a long face. He said, “My friend”—whatever his name was— “died unexpectedly, and his brother came over to the house and saw all these books and stuff, he threw them out.” All these priceless things that he’d been collecting for years just went down the drain. These are the heartbreaking stories. WM: Yeah. Now, another question: remember the “Star Hawkins” strip? Who created that, do you remember? SCHWARTZ: Remind me who Star Hawkins was again. WM: He was the private eye with the robot secretary, Ilda. SCHWARTZ: Oh, oh… John Broome and I did those. He had a robot named Ilda. It was based on the Humphrey Bogart—what was the role he played where he had a secretary? WM: Sam Spade. SCHWARTZ: Sam Spade, yeah. He had an assistant, what was it? WM: Effie. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, it was based on that. The thing about Star Hawkins was that he was broke all the time, so once he put Ilda in a pawnshop, right? John Broome and I came up with the concept. John would come in and say, “Okay, let’s do something.” So I may have said, “We’re doing a series of stories. We have ‘The Space Museum,’ we have ‘The Atomic Knights,’ let’s do another series.” So either he or I came up with the idea. We both liked detective stories, except we put it in the future. And we borrowed from the Sam Spade movie. WM: I have the first “Star Hawkins.” I was buying Strange Adventures about a year or two after the strip started, and it was one
WM: That’s Mike Sekowsky. That’s why this strip had that appeal—because he was able to do humorous stuff that wasn’t too humorous, you know—that didn’t turn into comedy, and it was a very nice strip.
SCHWARTZ: Here’s a story which you probably shouldn’t print, but you know Sekowsky did the Justice League stories. And I said to him, “Look, if you’re coming in Monday, or whatever day, we’ll work out a cover, okay?” So he’d come in Monday, a little before twelve, and he says, “Well, I’m going to go to lunch first.” I said, “Okay, Mike. But no more than two martinis.” Well, the poor guy used to come back loaded, so I’d have to call up Murphy Anderson to do the cover. Not all the time, but if you ever saw the cover was done by Murphy Anderson, it was because Mike Sekowsky had too much to drink for lunch.
But he was very good-willed. My favorite Mike Sekowsky story: after he left DC, he went out to the Coast, and what he did out on the Coast, I don’t know [NOTE: Animation, as seen in A/E #33. —Roy.] But the first time I went out there, in ’81 or thereabouts, they were going to give me an Inkpot Award. And among those who had also received an Inkpot Award was Mike Sekowsky. And as he got his Inkpot Award and passed me, he looked me in the eye and said, “You know, this means a raise.” [laughs] He wasn’t working for me, and yet he looked me in the eyes and “This means a raise, you know.” On one side of me was Jim Shooter, on the other side was Ray Bradbury, along with my wife. By the way, where is this interview going to appear? WM: Who knows? I always have a lot of things in play, and when I think about maybe writing an interview or an article, I think about I’d better get some information so I have something to write about. So I have a list of things I want to write, and I get to them when they need to be gotten to and not because I had to. SCHWARTZ: Incidentally, I don’t know if I put in my book why I go to the office once a week. It’s because, when I was retiring in ’85 or ’86, Jack Liebowitz called me into his office and said, “Listen, Julie. I hate to hear you’re retiring. I want you to do me and yourself a favor. I want you to come into the office once or twice a week.” I said, “What am I going to do?” He says, “It doesn’t matter what you do. Just go into the office, do a crossword puzzle, look at the stock market, talk to the editors. Just get out of the house and come into the office. That’s what I do, and it’ll keep you going.”
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A Trio of Interviews with the Self-Confessed Architect of the Silver Age (Below:) A 1960s “Star Hawkins” page featuring Ilda the robot secretary and her boss—scripted by John Broome, penciled by Mike Sekowsky, and edited by Julie. Mark Muller sent us this page from a b&w Australian reprint, The Hundred Plus Comic #50. (Left:) The third (and final) photo we’ve seen of Mike Sekwosky in 1969 with model Joyce Miller allegedly posing as “The New, Mod Wonder Woman” (see A/E #7 & 33 for the other two). (Right:) A bittersweet photo of (l. to r.) Julie, John, and Murphy Anderson. Julie and his “best friend and best man at my wedding” John B. met at the 1998 San Diego ComicCon for the first time in decades—and the last time ever, for John died of a heart attack early in 1999. Photo at right from the Julius Schwartz Collection.
WM: I think he was right. If you keep involved in things that you’ve been involved with, it keeps you going. Now I’ve got a question for you. After the war, paper controls were lifted, and there was a mad scramble at the end of ’45 and into ’46 for people to gear up and publish more comics and more magazines; and there was a big flood of stuff coming up. When you were working at DC, do you remember any issues about paper at that time? Was that ever a problem in your office? DC was one of the companies that seemed to always have a good paper supply. SCHWARTZ: Liebowitz and Donenfeld had contacts, I think. It may not have been a problem. I just don’t recall. I wouldn’t be privy to that. I’m an editor. Editors are not told these things. WM: Yeah, okay. I just thought I’d ask that. SCHWARTZ: That’s all right. A little question here, a little question there, and before you know it, you have a big article. To wind up the Jack Liebowitz story, he kept going until he was 97, and he died at the age of 100. [NOTE: There follows a bit of talk about the psychic reading Will Murray did of Julie on July 23, 2003, which has been omitted here. The psychic reading itself will be printed in edited form in A/E #40.] SCHWARTZ: The Comics Buyer’s Guide had the write-up about how the DragonCon in Atlanta handed out the Julie Award this year to Steranko. Also, they gave another award to Forry Ackerman. It was a nice thing when I presented it because, when I was married, I didn’t go to any conventions. My wife died in ’83, and I was invited in ’84 to go to the World Science Fiction Convention. And I went mainly because they were going to give me an award, and it turned out to be the Forry Award. So here, 19 years later, Forry got the Julie Award. [both laugh] And poor Forry didn’t know what was going on, because it was held at a banquet. It was casual, but he came in a tuxedo. [There follows a recap of the conversation in Interview #1 about Mort Weisinger, adding the fact that his brother Eddie, for reasons unknown, was called “The Jeep.”] SCHWARTZ: The Jeep was a crazy sort. He was an excellent Contract
Bridge player. He was my partner quite often; he and John Broome were my partners. WM: Back to “Star Hawkins.” It continued after Schiff took over Strange Adventures. Do you know who ended up doing it? Gil Kane. I thought, that’s very interesting, because he certainly kept the humor, but of course he gave it a different look. I had stopped buying Strange Adventures around the time you left it, because it was not the same magazine. SCHWARTZ: Schiff ruined it, right. WM: His tastes or his sensibilities were just not that good for that sort of thing. And I imagine most of his books kind-of languished because, frankly, he didn’t use the best artists. Or if he did, he didn’t get the best out of them. SCHWARTZ: Poor fellow, I think he wound up with Alzheimer’s. And the funny part—not funny, the hard part, what they want to call it—when he died, not a mention was made in Comics Buyer’s Guide or even at DC Comics. And yet he was the managing editor of DC when Mort left to go into the Army. Schiff got the job, and when Mort came back, Schiff was held on and he really ran the place. Whit Ellsworth, or whoever was in charge, didn’t do anything. It was Jack Schiff who was the managing editor. WM: I heard from a source that, at the time, I thought was reliable, the story of why Schiff was booted out of [publisher Leo] Marguiles’ Standard/Thrilling pulp house. Basically, Schiff was quite the leftist in the ’30s. At Leo’s, there was a tendency for editors to rewrite stories. Well, Schiff tended to put what we called “socialist propaganda” into stories. And I heard that a writer named Norman A. Daniels had done a detective story of some kind for Marguiles, and Schiff rewrote it, or revised it, and put in some fairly leftist stuff. Daniels complained, and, supposedly, that’s what caused Schiff to leave. What’s interesting is, in later years, when that whole Communist scare came in, the issue was revived for Daniels and he was questioned on it. He said, “It wasn’t me, it was that editor Schiff, rewriting me.” And that’s how that story came to be known. And that is supposedly why Schiff ended up freelancing in comics and pulps.
Three Easy Pieces Starring Julius Schwartz SCHWARTZ: Well, I was his agent for a while. [DC editor] Bernie Breslauer was also a pinko. More than Jack Schiff, I believe. WM: Really? Well, I know he’d worked at Standard and ended up at DC. I assume Schiff hired him. I don’t think Breslauer was at DC a terribly long time, or ever achieved any real strong editorial position. SCHWARTZ: Oh, no, no. I know Murray Boltinoff boasted that he wrote a screenplay for a movie called 50 Roads to Town. It starred an actor I liked very much, Lloyd Nolan. Boltinoff was an editor up at DC, but I think he was more involved in artwork than in editing. He was a big pain in the ass. He had a wife who was absolutely nuts, and she drove him nuts. She kept calling him up at the office all the time. He said, [frantic voice] “Leave me alone, leave me alone. I’m editing.” God, no one liked Murray. At least I didn’t care for Murray. WM: 50 Roads to Town was based on a Fred Nebel novel. SCHWARTZ: I don’t know anything about it. But he didn’t write the screenplay by himself. I think it was like a collaboration. Have you done much research on Frank Gruber? WM: A little. I’m writing a book, believe it or not, on pulp westerns, and he became a big pulp western guy, and I have some quotes from him in the book, but I was never interested in him as a writer. SCHWARTZ: Well, you know, he wound up in Hollywood and did a number of important screenplays. I think he wrote a James Cagney thing—the prize-fighting movie, whatever it was. You were at PulpCon? I was a guest once or twice. They gave me a plaque—I’m looking at it on the wall—which has a series of four science-fiction covers of stories I had sold. And I did a slide show at that convention. I was told they’re finally going to take one of my suggestions. I said, “Please stop putting on your covers ‘Part Four of a Six-Part Story.’” Would you put that on a cover?
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(Left:) DC co-publisher Harry Donenfeld and his son Irwin, who succeeded him. (Right:) Co-publisher Jack Liebowitz. Details from a photo courtesy of Irwin Doneneld which appeared in A/E #26.
Every once in a while, Batman—you heard about the Jim Lee thing? His remarkable run was a best-seller, and now he’s doing the same thing with Superman. But when you look at the lists of the hundred best-selling comics, Batman would be #1, and then maybe #14 would be JLA, but Superman may not be among the first fifty. Can you imagine that? All the rest are Marvel. WM: I thought comics might have been over with by now, but they’re creeping along. Maybe they’ll never die, who knows? SCHWARTZ: It’s a bet—who’s going to die first? Comics or Julie Schwartz? WM: If this was five years ago, I would have said comics. SCHWARTZ: Once, when I was complaining to him, Harlan says, [growls] “Listen, Schwartz”—I can’t try to imitate Ellison—“I guarantee you’re going to live to be the age of 150, at which point, I’m going to announce to the world that you are the Messiah.” [Will laughs] So I would laugh and say, “Okay, Harlan, if you’re going to live to do that, you better live to be 135.” Whenever I call him, Harlan picks up the phone and [growls] “All right, Schwartz, what do you want?” So one time the phone rings about a quarter after eleven, maybe a minute before, and Harlan goes, [growls] “All right, Schwartz, what’re you bothering me? You know I’m busy.” And a feminine voice says, “Why, Harlan, how did you know I was going to call?” There’s a writer named Susan Shwartz. She doesn’t spell her name with a “ch”—just “sh.” She knows Harlan, and she happened to call him at almost the exact time I usually called. Are you into detective fiction at all? Are you familiar with a guy called The Thinking Machine? WM: Oh, yeah, Jacques Futrelle. SCHWARTZ: He’s supposed to be doing a whole series on it now. He’s also under contract to get a series done with DC Comics with Paul Chadwick. We have bets in the office how late it’s going to be. [Will laughs] But maybe there’s no deadline.
WM: I would absolutely not put that on. I wouldn’t have six-part stories, for one thing. Also, it basically says, “You’ve come in after the movie started.” SCHWARTZ: You’re not going to gain a new reader and you may lose an old reader or two. If you pick up the book and start reading it, if you haven’t read the first three parts, you don’t know what’s going on. I keep telling them—when I did the first two-part story in Justice League of America, part two of the first page was a complete recap of everything that happened. I learned it from the pulp magazines. Argosy would have long introductions on a Max Brand story, and so on. But comics are just going and going.
INTERVIEW # 3 Conducted on Oct. 7, 2003 JULIUS SCHWARTZ: [answering the phone, after Will identifies himself] What’s the problem now?
The strange transformation of Adam Strange. Editor Jack Schiff, who inherited both Strange Adventures and its hero later that year, put the very talented Lee Elias on it as artist—but somehow things just didn’t pan out. Splash repro’d from photocopies of the original art. [©2004 DC Comics.]
WILL MURRAY: There isn’t a problem. I’ve solved your Dorothy Roubicek mystery for you. I was in the Boston Public Library yesterday looking through old Writer’s Digests for some other information, and I
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A Trio of Interviews with the Self-Confessed Architect of the Silver Age SCHWARTZ: That’s the title…
came across her name in Harriet Bradfield’s column in an issue dated June 1945. She [Dorothy] was story editor at Timely Comics—Stan Lee’s and Martin Goodman’s place. So when did she come to work for you guys?
JS & WM: [in unison] Short and Punchy!
SCHWARTZ: Originally, she came to work, I assume, when Ted Udall, who was an editor for Shelly Mayer before her, got drafted, which would be about 19— —when the hell was the draft? WM: ’42 to ’45. SCHWARTZ: I was hired in ’44, so she must have been there for two years, between ’42 and ’44.
Murray Boltinoff, in a photo that appeared in Amazing World of DC Comics.
WM: Well, she’s at Stan Lee’s place in ’45, so this doesn’t solve the mystery.
SCHWARTZ: I didn’t read many of the writer’s magazines, but I liked the Author and Journalist. Mort Weisinger and I did an interview for them on Arthur J Burks. [NOTE: Burks, the “Speed Merchant of the Pulps,” was one of the most popular and prolific pulpsters in all genres. See photo on p. 24. —Will.] He said he could write a story about anything, so I said, “Okay, prove it.” So he took out a dictionary and said, “Just open it up, point your finger at anything.” And I pointed at “fan.” He immediately sat down at the typewriter and began a story called “Slaves of the Electric Fan.” [Will chuckles]
SCHWARTZ: She left in ’44 to get married. Evidently it didn’t last, so she went looking for a job and wound up at Timely. But my problem— where was she before she got to DC? Where did Shelly Mayer find her?
WM: Later, he became a psychic. But before that, he started on that path, and after the war, he really became a psychic. He wrote several books, including a kind of spiritual autobiography called Monitors, and he tells some very bizarre stories in that.
WM: I don’t know.
SCHWARTZ: So what did “J” stand for?
SCHWARTZ: So you didn’t solve anything. [laughs]
WM: Nothing. He said the “J” had no period and it stood for nothing.
WM: No, I just added another wrinkle. Her maiden name must have been Roubicek, because she’s going by Roubicek in this mention. “Dorothy Manning” must just be a pen name. She could have come out of the pulps, or radio, or one of the comic shops. Some of the people who ended up in different positions in different comic houses came out of like the Jack Binder shop or the Will Eisner shop.
SCHWARTZ: And what was the pseudonym he used besides his name?
SCHWARTZ: You forget one thing. She’s a female. WM: Yeah, but there were women who worked in those shops. SCHWARTZ: Now let me get to the more important question: what the hell were you doing researching Writer’s Digest? WM: I’m working on an oral history of western pulp magazines, and Harriet Bradfield had a regular column in the Digest for about 20, 30 years. She would make the rounds of the editorial offices and get quotes and market tips. Some of these quotes are very useful to me, because they give indications of what the editors wanted or didn’t want at different times. SCHWARTZ: So you’re writing a book? What’s the title?
WM: “Estil Crichie” was one. He did a book as “Burke McArthur,” and there were one or two others. Inadvertently, he collaborated with John Campbell. He turned in a story to Campbell [at Street & Smith’s Astounding sf pulp] that Campbell didn’t care for. He tried to send it back, and Burks raised such a stink that Street & Smith bought the story and Campbell had to rewrite it. It was “The Elder Gods.” It was in Unknown, and it was published as by “Don A. Stuart” [Campbell’s pen name], but it was really Burks and Campbell. SCHWARTZ: Do you know how Unknown started? WM: Well, I’ve heard a couple stories. One was that Campbell got in “Sinister Barrier”— SCHWARTZ: That’s it, that’s it. I know that because I was the agent for the story. Eric Frank Russell became my client for a while, and he handed me this “Sinister Barrier,” which I vaguely recall was maybe 60,000 words long. And it was based on Charles Fort.
WM: I keep changing it. At one point, it was called Wordslingers. SCHWARTZ: No good, no good. WM: Cowboy Universe. SCHWARTZ: No. WM: The West That Never Was. SCHWARTZ: That’s a little better. WM: That was my title for a long time, but someone used it on a book on western films. I need something short and punchy.
The splash from a Flash/GL team-up, repro’d from a b&w Australian reprint, courtesy of Shane Foley. Art by Irv Novick, Frank McLaughlin, & Dick Giordano, script by Cary Bates, editing by Julie. [Page ©2004 DC Comics.]
I brought it to Campbell with a rave review. And then, when I went to see him a week later, I said, “Well, are you going to buy the story?” He said, “No, I can’t use it for Astounding.” So he saw my crestfallen face, and he said, “Wait a second. I liked it so much, I’m going to start a new magazine called Unknown, or Unknown Worlds. And that’s going to be the lead story.” [NOTE: See p. 25.] The check came to I think either 60 or 70,000 words, something
Three Easy Pieces Starring Julius Schwartz
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When it comes to giving Will Murray advice about westerns, Julie knew whereof he spoke! He edited a slew of cowboy comics for DC from the late 1940s through the early ’60s. Here, left to right: (a) a house ad for Western Comics #5 (Sept.-Oct. 1948), featuring Howard Sherman’s Wyoming Kid (Gardner Fox scripted quite a few “WK” stories)… (b) Alex Toth’s powerful cover for All-American Western #106 (Feb.-March 1949), the fourth issue after the Kanigher-scripted cowboy Johnny Thunder kicked Green Lantern and Dr. Mid-Nite out of what had been the AA line’s flagship title… (c) a Zorro-style hero, Don Caballero, penciled by Gil Kane, from All-Star Western #59 (June-July 1951), the second issue after the JSA took early retirement. This panel is repro’d from a photocopy of the original art, courtesy of Ethan Roberts, who owns the whole story. [©2004 DC Comics.]
like $600-700. When Russell received the check, he decided to use the money to come to America. And—you know, [pulp editor Hugo] Gernsback encouraged the fans to start local clubs—we had one in Queens called The Queens Science Fiction League, and they brought Eric Frank Russell around. I have a photograph somewhere where he was there. I think Jack Williamson was there that time; Otto Binder I know was there. And when they mentioned that Eric Frank Russell was coming, the attendance grew from maybe 15 to like 30 or 40. And that, if you want to know my opinion, is the beginning of conventions, because Gernsback started these clubs, The Science Fiction League, and he encouraged people. If you had three people in a city who could get together and form a club, they would get a charter. The only ones who attended these meetings were fans. When I was invited to attend The Queens Science Fiction League, I would say, “Edmond Hamilton’s going to be in town. I’m going to bring him to the meeting.” Well, instead of the 10 or 15 that usually showed up, 30 or 40 showed up. So I got the idea of bringing professionals around. Now, professionals had never met any of the fans, so they were just as thrilled to meet the fans as the fans were to meet them. So this thing gradually grew, and that’s the secret of running the so-called World Conventions—you’ve got to have the pros there. We had a try-out in Newark in 1938, and I invited Campbell and Binder and maybe Sprague de Camp to come. And I think almost 200 people showed up. So that was it. I got together with Moskowitz, although Moskowitz was a prime mover, and we decided to hold what we’d call a World Science Fiction Convention.
(Left:) Gil Kane and Julie remained good friends till Gil’s death from cancer in early 2000. Here, Gil presents Julie with an award (or is it the other way around?) at the Dallas Fantasy Fair in July 1989. Seated near Gil are Harvey and Adele Kurtzman. From the Julius Schwartz Collection.
I said, “Look, I can’t get involved in that.” But we were going to put out a program book, and I was to get the various professionals to contribute ads. A. Merritt contributed a full-page ad. A lot of money at that time— ten dollars. And that’s how the program book started. And we had fans contribute their names, and they paid a dollar. And that paid for the program book. Was any of this in my book? I don’t remember. Unfortunately, everything that was in the book was memory and after it was over, I thought of so many other things. WM: Are you familiar with Jerry Siegel’s early science-fiction fanzines? SCHWARTZ: I’m trying to remember. I may have been. His fan magazines were not fan magazines. What did his fan magazines look like—any idea? WM: I think they were mimeographed. SCHWARTZ: No, you’re wrong, in my opinion. First of all, as I recall—those old Cosmic Stories, right? And then he put out Cosmic Stories Quarterly. Now, what I remember, and I may be wrong—you were thinking mimeographed, but my impression, from speaking with Jerry, is that he would take the stories that he was trying to sell to the professional magazines, all of which were rejected, and he typed them up with six or seven or eight carbon copies. So Cosmic Stories may have had a run of eight copies. Now, none of this I could prove. But it sticks in my memory that that’s the way this was. WM: Well, then, you might not be able to answer this question. For a long time, it’s been said that Jerry had reviewed Philip Wylie’s novel
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A Trio of Interviews with the Self-Confessed Architect of the Silver Age
Unwilling collaborators: legendary sf pulp editor John Campbell (left) and sf writer Arthur J Burks. Julie and Will mentioned them… so we figure Julie’d want to see pictures…!
that Williamson letter. I’ll look for it one of these days. Also, where did Jerry Siegel get the name Krypton for the planet? Why would he pick an element? WM: Someone has pointed out John Carter of Mars, you know, with Helium. [NOTE: The capital of Edgar Rice Burroughs’ Barsoom/Mars is named Helium. —Roy.]
Gladiator in his fanzine. And a lot of people say that was one of the inspirations for Superman. But what no one has ever been able to determine is, in fact, did he read the book and did he review the book? You don’t know?
SCHWARTZ: Exactly right. Jerry admired Burroughs, and Burroughs took a chemical element, so he’ll do the same. He put his finger down a list and came across “Krypton” and he said, “That’s it.” This is my guess. He was strongly influenced by Burroughs—many of the things that happened with Superman, like gravity changes and so on and so forth. So honestly, who gives a s*** about all this except fanatics like you?
SCHWARTZ: No. Well, you’ll have to go through the magazines and see whether he did. WM: I don’t even know where copies would be.
WM: Well…
SCHWARTZ: I did I tell you of his involvement with Jack Williamson. WM: I heard Jack Williamson gave some advice on Superman when Superman was being created. SCHWARTZ: What happened is, Jerry would send—I may be wrong exactly, but my impression was that he sent them first to Edmond Hamilton for his opinion. And Jack Williamson was Hamilton’s closest friend. So Hamilton sent them on to Williamson, or maybe Siegel sent them directly. And Williamson read one of his early stories and said, “It is wrong for your concept,” because Jerry Siegel dealt with a planet that has super people, which Williamson pointed out is nonsense. Of course, on Earth, human beings are super, right? Compared to ants. So he said, “What you have to do is get that person from that planet and send him to Earth, where he will become super.” I may even have a letter proving this. WM: I’d like to see that letter.
SCHWARTZ: I know and I admire you, because when I was young, I tried to solve mysteries myself. The biggest thing is who was “Anthony Gilmore”? You remember that one? [NOTE: It turned out to be a pseudonym for Desmond Hall. —Will.] WM: And there was another mystery that later turned out to be [F. Orlin] Tremaine and his brother. You know Tremaine later worked in comics? He edited a thing called Comet for a house that also put out a bunch of comic books, and he ended up editing them, and I think Harold Hersey was brought on board, and he edited them, too. Did you ever have any contact with Harold Hersey? SCHWARTZ: I think I may have met him once or twice. I submitted some stories to—what was his magazine called? Something with the word “Ghost” in it. WM: Ghost Stories was his for a while. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, yeah. For some reason, I had a bad impression of him, I don’t know why. We’re talking about maybe 70 years ago.
SCHWARTZ: Did I tell you about the story Jack Williamson wrote called “The Girl from Mars”? There’s a tie-in right there, right? WM: There is a story that H.L. Gold claimed to have been involved in giving Siegel some ideas.
WM: But he was sort-of a gadfly. He was all over the place. He never did have a successful magazine for very long, so he may not have been the best person to edit the magazines he ended up editing.
SCHWARTZ: Personally, I would doubt it. WM: Yeah, I kind-of doubt it, too. I think this is something about which Gold, since he wasn’t in the best shape in his later years, mentally, might have been misunderstood. He claimed to have created Krypton, which I tend to doubt. But the way I heard the Jack Williamson story is that Siegel’s original idea was the people of Krypton were like geometrical solids or crystals or something, and Williamson said, “No, they’ve got to be human.” I hadn’t heard that Williamson suggested the idea of taking the Superman and putting him on Earth. That’s interesting. If you find that letter, let me know. You can read it to me over the phone. SCHWARTZ: Okay, give me a call. I’m debating where the hell to look for it. Whatever files I have—when I got married, I left all my records behind in my house and my mother eventually threw them all out. All the Lovecraft, and all my correspondence as an agent. Somehow, I may have a copy of
Hugo Gernsback (left) and the first issue of Unknown (March 1939), which cover-featured the Julie Schwartz-agented story “Sinister Barrier” by Eric Frank Russell (pictured at right). What’s the connection between them all? Julie explains it all to Will in the interview. Portraits from James Gunn’s Alternate Worlds. [Art ©2004 the respective copyright holders.]
Three Easy Pieces Starring Julius Schwartz SCHWARTZ: Now, you knew about working with Leo Margulies on the staff [at Thrilling/Standard]—how that worked? WM: Yeah. They had three guys in the back room who had a pass on all the stories. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, which I assume Leo didn’t even bother to read, okay? When Mort Weisinger was hired, he dominated [that room]—he didn’t care what Jack Schiff or Bernie Breslauer thought. If he liked it, he got them to Sf author Jack Williamson and Julie at go along, because they the 1979 Science Fiction Writers of didn’t know anything America Awards banquet, where Julie about science-fiction. accepted honorary Nebulas on behalf of WM: Yeah, that’s right. Speaking of Margulies—he’d left Ned Pines’ [Thrilling] group around 1951, ’52, and I think there were rumors he’d had a breakdown. Do you remember anything about that?
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on the concept. I’m paying you.” And every one of the Captain Future stories he sold, he sent me $25. WM: $250 is awful small for a novel. It was 45,000, maybe 45 or 50,000 words. They were full-length novels. At that same time, Lester Dent was getting seven-fifty for Doc Savage. SCHWARTZ: Yeah, but his name was “Lester Dent.” I just recall pretty clearly it was $250, and it looks like half a cent a word. WM: I thought the lowest price people got for those character novels was about $450 to $500. Twofifty was small. SCHWARTZ: One of these days, I’ll look up the record. Who gives a s*** outside of you and us, right? WM: You’d be surprised. Someone asked me a question to ask you. He said on a lot of old DC science-fiction covers—not necessarily yours, but sometimes yours—there was a motif of aliens fishing for Earthmen. I think it was more of a Jack Schiff thing. There’d be like a warp in space, or a spaceship, and they’d be dropping down lines or nets to capture Earthmen like they were fishing for them.
Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster for the creation of Superman. If he’d known they were coming, the Man of Steel would’ve baked a cake—in fact, he did! In this interview, Julie and Will swap stories that indicate a possibly much closer connection between Williamson and Superman than SFWA members probably realized. Photo from the Julius Schwartz Collection; José García-López art repro’d from a photocopy of the original art, courtesy of Eddy Zeno. [Superman TM & ©2004 DC Comics.]
SCHWARTZ: Well, I vaguely recall that I did one such cover. I probably called it “Fishermen from Outer Space.” [laughs] Thank God for Will Murray, because otherwise people will never know the truth about all these past occurrences. What’s the next big article that you’re working on?
SCHWARTZ: Very, very vaguely. But he eventually did put out another magazine. Did he marry Celia Goldsmith?
WM: No, no. He married Sylvia Kleinman. She was an editor of his. She was from Texas. And the story was that he fell in love, she went back to Texas, he went there and wooed her back. I heard somewhere about Margulies having a breakdown or a collapse, which I’m mentioning in my book on westerns. He was a big western guy, and I just want to make sure this isn’t something I’m remembering out of some Phantom Zone. In my book, I say there are rumors he’d had a nervous breakdown or collapse at this time. And now you’ve semiconfirmed it, so I can be a little more confident that, in fact, it could be true, because he was a very hard-driving guy, and apparently it caught up with him after a while. SCHWARTZ: Right. You know about the origin of Captain Future? Leo Margulies was very impressed [by the sf convention] and told Mort, “I want another magazine with just the main character.” And Hamilton was there. And Hamilton and Mort—and I think I must have been there—took a ride on a 5th Avenue sight-seeing bus, or whatever it’s called. And that’s where Mort and Hamilton ironed out Captain Future. I wouldn’t guarantee the story; it’s maybe 50% true. WM: In a fanzine, they printed the original concept for Captain Future, and Hamilton said, “I had to convince Weisinger to make some changes, because some of the concepts were impractical.” I think it was more of a super Doc Savage, and it became more of a space opera thing. So it went through an evolution. [NOTE: See p. 27.] SCHWARTZ: All I know is that Hamilton sent the stories directly to Mort and he paid him, as I recall, $250 a story, and Hamilton sent me a check for $25. I said, “But Ed, I didn’t even agent it.” “But you were in
WM: I’m supposed to interview the director of the new Peter Pan movie sometime this month. And I want to write an article on that aborted John Campbell magazine, Mark Time. In 1940, Street & Smith asked John Campbell to come up with a character magazine. And he came up with Mark Time, a Babylonian slave who drank an immortality potion and ended up being a Roman centurion and lives to the 1940s as a radio engineer, and he fights crime and no one knows he’s immortal, and he had all the knowledge he acquired through the many generations of being alive. Well, Sam Moskowitz had found a treasure trove of letters from a fan who was in weekly contact with Campbell, and Campbell’d tell him what was going on that week. And for several weeks, they were working on Mark Time, and Campbell said, “It’s a really good concept. I think it will fly. I’ve got a writer working on it.” He describes the plot and the character—doesn’t mention the writer’s name, which is frustrating—and then says at one point, “Well, the writer couldn’t pull it off. Our front office thinks we shouldn’t go ahead because there’s such competition now, we really need something strong, so we’re abandoning the idea.” My guess is the writer was probably Norvell Page [chief writer of The Spider pulp as “Grant Stockbridge,” and later speechwriter for Congressman Lyndon Johnson and others]. SCHWARTZ: Really? WM: The reason I think it’s Page is that Campbell was very high on
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A Trio of Interviews with the Self-Confessed Architect of the Silver Age
As these interviews show, Julie loved to talk science-fiction, as well as to edit it. Here are a few splash pages from Julie-edited sf mags: [From top left:] (a) Alex Toth (pencils), Sy Barry (inks), and Robert Starr (script) from Strange Adventures #18 (March 1952), reprinted in DC’s 1999 trade paperback Mysteries in Space, edited by Dale Crain. (b) Sy Barry splash from Strange Adventures #58 (July 1955); thanks to Bob Bailey. (c) “Spores from Space!” with art by Frank Frazetta (yes, him!), script by Gardner Fox, from Mystery in Space #1 (May 1951); (d) “The Counterfeit Earth!” with art by Joe Kubert, story by Otto Binder, from Mystery in Space #35 (Jan. 1957). (Below:) Perhaps the weirdest of all, though, was the time Julius Schwartz and Gardner Fox made themselves the heroes of “The Strange Adventure That Really Happened!” in Strange Adventures #140 (May 1962). Funny, though—artist Sid Greene got to draw the editor and writer saving the Earth from alien invasion, but he didn’t get to make an appearance himself! [©2004 DC Comics.]
Page in 1939 and ’40 because of “But without Horns,” which Campbell said was the only superman novel that anybody had ever written that was plausible. And Page also did those “Prester John” stories for Unknown— SCHWARTZ: Yes, right, right. WM: —which have a historical background, and also the Page Spider.
So if you look for someone who would be up to writing Mark Time, he’s the man. And it’s possible Page just didn’t pull it off the way Campbell wanted. Now, there is another guy who wrote a little for Campbell—William G. Bogart, who assistant-edited Doc Savage at one point and did a bunch of Doc Savages, and he’d sold a few things to Unknown. It’s vaguely possible they tapped him, but I don’t think he was a strong enough writer. When I think of all the other people
Three Easy Pieces Starring Julius Schwartz “We have seen Captain Future—and it works!”
writing for Campbell, I can’t think of a single one who would have said, “Yeah, I want to write a monthly novel.” Maybe Frederic Brown, if his career was early enough that he was looking for something— maybe Henry Kuttner?
In 1939, after attending the first World Science Fiction Convention, Standard/Thrilling editorial director Leo Margulies directed writer Edmond Hamilton to create an sf magazine with a continuing character instead of the usual anthology format. Hamilton (with the aid of Mort Weisinger and maybe Julie) came up with Captain Future, who got his own title; this Earle K. Bergey cover is from the Winter 1942 issue. (Photos of Hamilton and Weisinger can be seen on pp. 12 & 13, respectively.) [Cover art ©2004 the respective copyright holders.]
to me, “We’re bidding for the Worldcon. If we get it, we’re going to make you Fan Guest of Honor.” But that was as close as I came to be. Even if I was designated or invited to be, I doubt whether I would go now. It’s just too much for me.
I have no way of finding out who this guy is. They might have bought the novel anyway, because it was on order, and there may be a file that says, “Such-and-such manuscript purchased, not used.” If I could find that, I could identify the author, but right now all I can do is speculate—so I want to write about this, because nobody knows this thing exists. Nobody knew there was going to be a Mark Time magazine but John Campbell. SCHWARTZ: So this is blockbuster news for about eight people in the world. WM: Well, maybe 800. SCHWARTZ: Really? You think so? WM: You know, since the Internet, there’s a big pulp community online, who are different generations, of course, who are very interested in this stuff. I mean it’s still small potatoes, but… Do you ever go to that convention, PhilCon, in December? SCHWARTZ: I just got a letter from them. They wanted me to do my slide show for them. I said, “I would go if you take me to a certain restaurant.” It had the world’s greatest onion soup. [Will chuckles] Or clam chowder, whatever its name. I can’t remember the name of the restaurant, but that’s the only reason I decided to go.
WM: We talked about Mort Weisinger, and I mentioned the rumor he was hired by DC to sort-of ride herd on Jerry Siegel, but that doesn’t make sense, because, first of all, he had nothing to do with Superman for many years. SCHWARTZ: He came in as a general editor. And one of the things he had to do was invent a couple of characters— what was it, Aquaman? WM: Aquaman and Green Arrow. And he seemed to be more involved with what I call second- or third-tier books. SCHWARTZ: When he was drafted and came back, that’s when he became more involved. Who was working on Superman in the early ’40s then? WM: That would have been Whit Ellsworth. SCHWARTZ: You think so? [chuckles] I just got the impression that he never was involved in any plotting. I’m trying to think of two or three things he ever did for me. One is when I started “Justice League.” He wanted to have a “hip” character in there. And there was a television program which name I can’t remember— WM: 77 Sunset Strip. SCHWARTZ: Right, with a guy who snapped his fingers. [NOTE: “Kookie,” played by Edd Byrnes. —Roy.] And Whit Ellsworth said, “His name is Snapper Carr.” And I put him in the League. Are you taking notes? Are you recording all this crap? [laughs] WM: I think this Snapper Carr story is interesting. I don’t remember hearing that. That’s kind-of late for Whit to still be there. That would’ve been ’59. SCHWARTZ: Let me think. “Flash” started in ’56, and “Green Lantern” in either ’57 or ’58 [NOTE: Actually, it was 1959. —Roy.] So it would be about ’59. And he wasn’t there at that time?
Well, let me tell you one thing. I feel—I don’t want to use the word “insulted” or equivalent words, but these World Science Fiction Conventions have this Fan Guest of Honor, right? And I’ve never been invited. In my opinion, if it wasn’t for me, there wouldn’t even be any conventions. I was the one who brought the pros around and started conventions.
WM: Oh, he probably was, but I thought he was on the Coast a lot more. It was my impression that he wasn’t much in the offices after the Superman show.
WM: That’s true. But you’re not a fan. You’re way past being a fan. They’d have to invite the young Julie Schwartz. SCHWARTZ: No, no. The fans they invited were of historical importance. When they say “Fan Guest of Honor,” the original thought was those who started fandom, were involved in fandom in the early days. Like Forry Ackerman and Sam Moskowitz and people like that. I was at a comic book convention in Charlotte a couple of years ago, and this fellow says
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SCHWARTZ: I just don’t recall. All I know is that Mort went out there every summer. Ellsworth dealt with the pulp writers out there and came up with the Superman part of the stories for the show. And Mort always looked forward to getting out of the office, so he didn’t have to come in every day and work it out. Julie’s “alien fishermen” cover— Strange Adventures #21 (June 1952). Is that Gil Kane art? [©2004 DC Comics.]
You know there’s a book coming out on Otto Binder. I contributed quite a bit, mainly on photographs. And I have pictures of Otto’s family and
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A Trio of Interviews with the Self-Confessed Architect of the Silver Age (Below:) Splash of one of the “Batman” stories in the two-year “Outsider” epic—which climaxed with the death of the villain, who turned out to be Bruce Wayne’s trusted butler, Alfred. This story from Detective Comics #429 (Feb.-March 1964) was reprinted a few years later with credits added for writer Gardner Fox and artists Bob Kane & Joe Giella. Of course, “Bob Kane” in this instance—as is now well-known—was actually Sheldon Moldoff, performing the thankless task of trying to draw as if Bob Kane were imitating Carmine Infantino. [©2004 DC Comics.] (Left:) Julie wanted Bill Finger to write a key story, but insisted he sign this paper first, which was witnessed by fellow editor Bob Kangher. It seems unlikely this “contract” dealt with the climactic “death of Alfred” story, though, since that tale wasn’t published till 1966. Thanks to Dan Makara for sending a scan of this historic document.
WM: Well, they’d have kept Schiff if you’d been fired. You know, one hole wouldn’t have shifted. brothers and wife and things like that.
SCHWARTZ: You hear when you said? Hey, you coined a word—“Schiffted.”
WM: That’ll be an interesting book to read because he’s not much talked about these days. [NOTE: You can find out how to order Bill Schelly’s Words of Wonder: The Life and Times of Otto Binder from Hamster Press elsewhere in this issue— and you should! —Roy.]
WM: The other thing is that probably somebody like Murray Boltinoff would have taken over your books. SCHWARTZ: God help us, God help us. WM: Speaking of people from long ago, I did a little more research on Lynn Perkins, and he did go to Republic Pictures, and he co-wrote a couple of serials: Daughter of Don Q and King of the Forest Rangers. SCHWARTZ: How did you track that down?
SCHWARTZ: Yeah, it’s too bad. He was very prolific. Not a great writer, but a very competent one. If you needed a story, he’d get it out for you in time, things like that.
WM: Well, Jerry Bails has a little bit of information that says he worked in Republic Pictures, so I started e-mailing people who have backgrounds on serials, and people would start coming up with credits. And I said, “Oh, this is cool.” So he at least did two serials, co-wrote them.
WM: Did you know Bill Finger much? Did you work with him?
SCHWARTZ: [mocking] That’s electrifying news. The world can hardly wait to hear about it.
SCHWARTZ: Well, when I took over “Batman”—I’m sure I told this, but there was a lot of talk about those three males living in Wayne Manor, and they wanted a female in there. So I was going to kill off Alfred and put in Aunt Harriet, which is taken from a song. Hoagie Carmichael wrote a song called “Rocking Chair”: [sings] “Old rocking chairs’ got me…” And he talks about “my dear old Aunt Harriet.” That’s where I got dear old Aunt Harriet.
WM: I’m writing an article on Perkins, so it bridges a gap after he left comics. And it keeps it in the family. It’s something comics fans might be interested in. You can make fun all you want, but I’m having fun writing these articles, and I can’t be psychic every day. It would fry my brains.
So I knocked off Alfred, saving Batman’s life, and I wanted Bill Finger to do it. And I said, “Bill, you have a reputation of bringing in this story late.” So I wrote out a note, saying, “I, Bill Finger, will not ask for the check before the story is completed,” and he signed it, all right? And I had it witnessed by Robert Kanigher. Bill did deliver the story on time, but in that first issue of Detective in which I started on “Batman,” I had an editorial in which I said something for which I could have been fired right on the spot. I said that the story would be written by Bill Finger, who wrote many of the early “Batman” stories. Now, it had never been revealed to the public that anyone but Bob Kane had been doing the stories. [chuckles] So here I spilled everything. But fortunately, nothing happened. Otherwise, you’d be writing an alternate history of comics. Why don’t you do a story? Suppose Julie Schwartz had been fired for revealing to the world that Bill Finger was responsible for writing many of the early “Batman” stories? What would have happened?
SCHWARTZ: Right. I’ll give you one more project to do. We discussed Mort’s novel The Contest. My feeling is that Dorothy [Roubicek/Woolfolk] may have had a hand in it, probably editing it. And my very good friend, a terrific writer, David Vern [a.k.a. David V. Reed] wrote part of it. And there was a fellow—I forgot his pen name or real name— a guy named Joe Samachson—I think he had a hand in it, too. WM: His pen name was William Morrison. Maybe that’s the other guy I’ve heard of. So that gives us three writers and maybe an editor, if not a rewriter, Dorothy. That’s enough to pull off a book.
Julie reveals that Snapper Carr—an obvious copy of Edd “Kookie” Byrnes of the TV series 77 Sunset Strip—was “suggested” as a character in Justice League of America by head DC editor Whitney Ellsworth. (Above:) The first panel showing Snapper Carr, in The Brave and the Bold #28. But doesn’t that odd spacing of his name in the caption make you wonder if originally either his first or last name was something different? [©2004 DC Comics.]
SCHWARTZ: Did I tell you about my falling out with Mort for a while? When The Contest came out, he lived in Great Neck, had a nice layout, and he invited my wife and me to attend a party he was throwing. He said, “Of course, you realize that when you come there, you’re going to have to buy a copy of the book.” Would you believe this? Unbelievable. Of course, I never showed up. [chuckles] Him asking me, his oldest friend—he had to promote it. His son Hank finally wrote a best-
Three Easy Pieces Starring Julius Schwartz selling psychology book. WM: Mort must’ve been turning over in his grave. SCHWARTZ: He had too much weight to turn over there. That weight killed him. That goddam meatloaf. In the old days, he would never buy a meatloaf sandwich for 40¢, because a meatloaf was 40¢. WM: You know, I once saw a letter from Weisinger to Johnny Johnson, saying that one of the things that caused him to retire from Superman was that Frank Gruber had died unexpectedly. He said, “You know, that’s too young, and I’ve got things I want to do before I pass away.” I mean it could be one of the triggers. I think part of it was that the comics were getting ahead of him. His style was no longer adaptable to the changing audience. SCHWARTZ: Exactly. Did you ever read his book, 1001 Things You Can Get Free? That short book’s been a—I use the word “best-seller,” but I think it was given away, I don’t know. WM: Ah-hah. It was a best-freebie. I haven’t forgotten that I was going to send you my published article on Weisinger. SCHWARTZ: I want to find out any mistakes you made about him. I’ve got to correct everything about Mort. WM: I think I once implied that he was Sgt. Saturn in the Thrilling pulps, since people have corrected me and said, “No, Sgt. Saturn started up later,” and that it was Oscar J. Friend, or somebody like that. So that’s a mistake that’s already been pointed out to me. [At this point the tape on this final interview runs out.]
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Postscript from Will Murray: I did send Julie my Mort Weisinger manuscripts, as well as a Harry Stephen Keeler book I thought he’d like to read.But I didn’t get back to him right away, and in November I suddenly had to go to Prague on assignment. After that, deadlines made my life a blur. I kept meaning to follow up, but time kept getting away from me. Before I knew it, the New Year had come and gone. In February, I heard from David Siegel that Julie was feeling very down. David invited me to a party at the DC Comics offices intended to cheer Julie up. It was meant to be a surprise. Other DC talent from Julie’s era were planning on attending. I had planned to call him in the week before the party, but in that short span, word reached me that he’d passed away and the opportunity was lost forever.... In retrospect, I was glad to have had those final conversations with Julie and the opportunity to preserve them for posterity. And I treasured our intermittent friendship. I could say a lot about Julius Schwartz, but others knew him longer and can speak to the man far better than I. But when I think of Julius Schwartz’ life, I reflect on this: Julie belonged to that pioneer generation of science-fiction fans who believed in a mightier future for mankind than most of his contemporaries dared imagine. That shared vision not only inspired the generations that followed, but materially contributed to the global thinking that made space travel and other modern miracles of science possible. But for all that, in his retirement, Julie told me he didn’t even own a common typewriter, never mind a personal computer. In the end, the future he so fervently believed in had passed him by....
In 2002 Julie’s good friend Irwin Hasen, who had done “Green Lantern” and “Justice Society” in the latter 1940s before moving on to Dondi, drew this panoramic look at comics conventions—with Julie Schwartz at its center, hawking his book (under a parodic title). And that’s where Julie Schwartz always liked to be—at the center of things. You got it just right, Irwin! [Art ©2004 Irwin Hasen.]
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“How Captain Whiz Became The Flash!” The Legendary CARMINE INFANTINO on JULIE SCHWARTZ —and the Secret Origin of the Silver Age Speedster Interview Conducted & Transcribed by Jim Amash
(Above:) Carmine Infantino and Julie Schwartz at the party held to celebrate the publication of Arlen Schumer’s book The Silver Age of Comic Book Art— Julie’s last public appearance. Note that hardcovers of the pair’s collaborations on Flash and Batman are also on display—as are the ever-present copies of Julie’s memoir. That guy never quit! (Right:) A pencil sketch by Carmine, inked by Vampirella artist Louis Small, Jr., for A/E benefactor Jerry K. Boyd during the 2003 San Diego Comic-Con. Photo courtesy of Joe Petrilak. [Art ©2004 Carmine Infantino; Flash TM & © DC Comics.]
[INTERVIEWER’S NOTE: Carmine Infantino was probably Julie Schwartz’s favorite artist. Carmine’s covers were striking and often original—e.g., Showcase #4, which introduced the Silver Age Flash. Their working relationship lasted almost thirty years—with Julie as Carmine’s boss for the first twenty of those years, and with Carmine as Julie’s boss for the final ten. A few days after Julie died, I called Carmine to discuss those times and his own take on the work they did together. Of course, we can’t thank Carmine enough not only for talking to us so soon after Julie’s passing, but also for drawing a knock-out cover which I had the honor of inking. After growing up seeing Carmine’s great covers on the newsstands, it was a special thrill to work with him. Thanks for everything, Carmine! I appreciate it— and Julie would have loved your cover. —Jim.] CARMINE INFANTINO: With a couple of exceptions, Julie got along with darn near everyone! He was an easy man to be with. You know, Joe Giella was one of his closest friends. Julie made friends everywhere he went, so it’s not surprising to see the outpouring of affection for him since the news of his passing broke. By the way, I had a special arrangement with Julie. I’d bring in a few cover ideas, he’d pick one and then have someone write a story around it. I created characters and story ideas this way. I don’t know if he worked with anyone else this way, but that’s how we did it. Take The Flash, for instance. I’d create a villain, like The Trickster, and bring in a
cover rough. If Julie liked it, then he’d have either Gardner Fox or John Broome write the story. JA: I believe you started working with Julie in 1947. He was working under Shelly Mayer at the time. What do you remember from those days? INFANTINO: Julie only dealt with writers back then. Shelly handled all the artists, so I didn’t have any dealings with Julie until Shelly left DC [in 1948]. Shelly was bringing along people like me, Alex Toth, and Joe Kubert. He was good about directing young talent. When Shelly was leaving the company, he told us that we’d be working directly with Julie. Shelly took me in to meet with Julie. Julie looked at my stuff and didn’t like it. He said, “Oh, okay.” Well, I didn’t say very much after that. JA: What didn’t he like about your work? INFANTINO: I don’t know.
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JA: But you were doing “The Flash,” even back in the late ’40s!
JA: Can you pinpoint when you started working this way with Julie?
INFANTINO: Yes, but I was doing that for Shelly. Julie was only editing copy for Shelly. Julie could be cold and distant when he wanted to be. He’d look at the work and say, “Uhhuh. Okay. Thank you.” He just wasn’t excited about my work. But little by little, things changed. We got to be friendly and he started liking my work.
INFANTINO: It was about the time we started “The Flash.” I had created a feature named “Captain Whiz and the Colors of Evil,” though it never was published. I had tried to sell the idea to Joe Simon, and even though he liked it, he wasn’t interested in publishing it at that point. I was also developing ideas for newspaper strips. Bob Kanigher used to visit me quite often. Kanigher saw those characters and said, “Maybe someday we can work those characters in.” When he wrote the first “Flash” story, he said, “You know those characters in ‘Captain Whiz’? Do you think we can use them for ‘The Flash’?” That’s how “Captain Whiz” became “The Flash.”
Ten or twelve years after I’d been working for Julie, I said to him,”You know, I come in with my work and turn it in to you, get my check and a script, and go home. Do you like my stuff?”
JA: How similar was the Captain Whiz costume to The Flash’s?
Julie said, “You’re getting paid, aren’t you?” That was the end of that. I never asked him if he liked my work again. [mutual laughter] But he wasn’t being derogatory; he was just being Julie!
INFANTINO: It was exactly the same! I didn’t save the drawings, though I wish I had. Joe Simon once wrote me a note, saying, “I wish we’d have gone ahead with those characters.”
JA: Well, Julie was “New York tough.” INFANTINO: You know what it was? He felt if you were a professional, then you should act like one. And he’d treat you like one. If he accepted your work, then he considered you to be a professional and that your work was okay. There was no “ifs, ands or buts” about it.
Carmine-penciled splash from Comic Cavalcade #28 (Aug.Sept 1948), the penultimate super-hero issue of that giant 15¢ title—around the time Shelly Mayer was getting ready to turn the editorial reins over to Julie. Writer & inker uncertain. [©2004 DC Comics.]
My work was getting better and better. I went back to school at night and was developing and changing my style. Julie could see that happening, and it got to the point that, any time he had a new project, he’d ask for me. So he evidently liked what I was doing. JA: In the early days, I take it all your meetings with Julie were short. INFANTINO: Very short. I’d bring the work in, he’d sit and carefully look at it. Sometimes he’d ask me to make minor changes, which I did. After that, he’d give me a new script and off I went. JA: How often would he request changes? INFANTINO: Very seldom—even in the beginning. It was never anything major; maybe a finger or a hand or a nose. Nothing really worth mentioning. JA: Once he started liking your stuff better... INFANTINO: I had less and less changes to make then. But he wouldn’t say he liked the work better. JA: But you had to know he did. INFANTINO: Well, it got to the point that he asked me to start thinking up cover ideas on my own. I’d bring two or three ideas in at a time, and Julie would pick one. Apparently, this way of working was successful, because sales were getting better and better on my books, so we continued to work that way.
JA: Well, he missed his chance. [laughs] Personally, I think the Flash costume is one of the greatest super-hero designs ever: sleek and timeless. [Carmine thanks me for the compliment] Did you have any input into scripts or do any editing of your own once you started drawing the stories?
INFANTINO: No, I never did that. JA: Not even on an artistic level? For instance, if you had a page that called for five panels, would you ever stretch it to six? INFANTINO: No. I always adhered pretty closely to what I was asked to do. JA: There was never a time when you said to Julie, ”This plot point doesn’t make sense”? INFANTINO: No, no. I never saw a need to do that. Julie always edited very tightly. At times there was more rewriting on the scripts than what originally had been written. The only person Julie didn’t rewrite was John Broome. John was absolutely brilliant; I loved his work. He was a genius. Julie worked very hard on Gardner Fox’s scripts. JA: I’ve seen a couple of examples, and it always surprised me how much Julie rewrote Fox’s scripts, because Gardner Fox is famous for being such a good comics writer. INFANTINO: I can’t explain how they worked together, because I wasn’t with them when they plotted stories. When I came into Julie’s office, they’d be sitting there working on scripts. They’d go to lunch, and when they came back, Julie and I would go over what I had brought in. Gardner would wait until I finished with Julie, and once I left, they’d go back to writing. I created the costumes of all the Flash villains. I had costume designs in my files, and when I submitted my cover roughs to Julie, those characters were there for him and his writers to create stories around. I
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The Legendary Carmine Infantino on Julius Schwartz stories. I did the covers and inside stories for Detective Comics. Slowly but surely, the sales came back up. Of course, then Batman became a television show and bam!—the comic book took off like a rocket. That was the major reason for Batman’s resurgence, but we were bringing it back before that.
had total freedom in creating those costumes. Julie never asked me to change a design. Take the Elongated Man: after a while, I decided the first costume I gave him was dull. I talked to Julie about it and he let me create another one. JA: Once Julie started liking your work, did any kind of friendship develop?
JA: Whose idea was it to put the yellow circle around Batman’s chest emblem?
INFANTINO: We were friendly, but were never close friends. It was always business. I did know his wife Jean, and we were all friendly, but I was not close to Julie like John Broome was.
INFANTINO: That was Julie’s idea. Nobody else’s. JA: Did Julie give you any instructions about what kind of look you were to give Batman?
Julie was friends with Mort Weisinger. He was not close with Jack Schiff, I don’t think. Or with Murray Boltinoff. Julie didn’t really socialize with the other editors. He was all business in the office. You knew him after he retired, so you got to see a different side of Julie than those who worked in the offices. He was a very private man, though he was always friendly. You know what he used to do? He’d go eat bean soup with a writer and then play Pinochle with Milt Snappin. Now, you couldn’t bother Julie during that period. It was Julie’s lunch hour and we all knew better than to bother him then. JA: Did you feel like you were Julie’s favorite penciler?
INFANTINO: No. He said, “You decide how you want [the stories] to look. And again, I created covers for Julie to plot stories around. I did the covers at least nine months in advance, I figure. JA: You said you always gave Julie three cover roughs. Did you do that on the Showcase #4 “Flash” cover?
Elsewhere in this issue, we’ve printed several of Carmine’s “Adam Strange” 1960s covers for issues of Mystery in Space. He returned to Adam Strange, as he did to The Flash, and got to draw the spaceman in—is this page really from the 1980s’ Green Lantern #146, like it says at the top? Inks by Dennis Jansen. Thanks to Ed Zeno for a photocopy of the original art. [©2004 DC Comics.]
INFANTINO: I had that impression, because he always came to me when he had a new project, exceptions being “Green Lantern” and “The Atom.”
JA: Or “Adam Strange,” which you couldn’t do because you were out of the country at the time. INFANTINO: Right. I was on a overseas tour with the National Cartoonists Society at the time “Adam Strange” was developed. But Julie told Mike Sekowsky—who drew the Showcase issues—that it would be my feature when it became a regular series. I made sure of that, because I didn’t want to take a character away from anyone. I spoke to Mike and he said, “I knew from the beginning that it would be your feature when you got back.” I didn’t like the short sleeves Gil Kane gave Adam Strange, and Julie said, “Change it if you want.” Now, “Batman” was a different thing. It was 1964. I was working on a “Flash” story when Julie called me and said, “You have to come into the office tomorrow.” I said, “Julie, I’m not finished yet. I need a couple of more days.” Julie said, ”Irwin Donenfeld wants to see both of us tomorrow.” So I came in and we went to Donenfeld’s office. Irwin said, “Batman is dying. You guys have six months to bring it back.” Once we were back in Julie’s office, he said, “You have to draw all the covers, so start creating covers for Batman.” Due to contractual obligations, Julie had to use Bob Kane on some
INFANTINO: Yes. I did three different rough versions of that cover, but they were all variations of the same idea. One of them was of The Flash running towards the reader. Another had Barry Allen in the background, with the costume coming out of the ring. And the third had the film strip, which of course we used.
JA: Do you think Julie picked you to be the artist because you were his “#1” artist, or were you picked because you had been the last artist to draw the Golden Age Flash? INFANTINO: I don’t know. All I know is that one day I brought in a western and Julie said to me,”Your next script will be a super-hero.” I wasn’t thrilled about it, because I wasn’t crazy about doing super-heroes. Julie said, “Bob Kanigher is writing the story now.” That’s when Bob stopped by my place and saw the “Captain Whiz” stuff. I never thought about having been the last “Flash” artist [in the 1940s], or whether or not that influenced Julie’s decision to have me draw the new Flash. JA: Julie also chose the last 1940s “Hawkman” artist—Joe Kubert—to do the new “Hawkman” series. He couldn’t use the last “Green Lantern” artists—Alex Toth and Irwin Hasen—to revive that character because they were no longer working for DC. In fact, Irwin was out of comics because he was busy doing the Dondi newspaper strip. INFANTINO: That’s right. I’m sure all of that entered into Julie’s thinking. And he put Mike Sekowsky on the Justice League because most of the original JSA artists were either not at DC or too busy on other books. I’m glad I didn’t have to do the Justice League. That was a busy book! I was busy enough with Julie’s other titles. And I imagine
“How Captain Whiz Became The Flash!” the “Adam Strange” series helped the sales of Mystery in Space. JA: I always wondered why the “Adam Strange stories” were so short in length. INFANTINO: I don’t know. Maybe because I was too busy with other projects to draw a whole issue of “Adam Strange” stories? Julie kept me as busy as he could, you know. The “Adam Strange” stories were tightly written and I enjoyed that series. JA: I know Julie did not like your inks, so what did it take for you to get Julie to let you ink some stories? INFANTINO: I demanded it. Every once in a while, Julie knew I had to get a “release,” so he’d let me ink some stories. But he told me he didn’t like my inking. He preferred Murphy Anderson’s tight, slick look over my stuff. I can understand that. And Joe Giella was also very slick, so he got to ink my “Flash” stuff. He was good—still is—as you can see in the Mary Worth strip he draws. My favorite inker was Frank Giacoia. But Frank wasn’t good about meeting deadlines. I used to bail him out on his newspaper strips, as did Mike Sekowsky and Joe Giella. JA: A magician with the brush, but not with his deadlines. Which reminds me of a story I heard about you. You came into Julie’s office one day with two pages of a story and you were very tired. Julie asked why, and you said, “I drew four pages last night.” Julie said, “But there’s only two here.” You said, “Yeah. I didn’t like the two pages I drew, so I tore them up and did them over.” True story? INFANTINO: True story. I did that often. Many times, I drew a page, didn’t like it, and threw it away. I was very meticulous; if I didn’t like something, I had to do it over.
called Julie and said, “I’ll get your work done before I go in.” Julie said, “Carmine, you need to take it easy.” I said, “No, no, I’ll get the work done.” I had someone deliver the work for me, but I got it in on time. There were a few guys who were notorious for blowing deadlines. Julie didn’t like having his schedules disrupted and would get upset sometimes. We considered those guys to be unprofessional. Julie had Irv Novick and Nick Cardy working for him, so there were other people he could use if he wanted to. JA: In the 1950s and ‘60s, each editor had their own little ”kingdom.” Julie had certain people he used, and so did the others. The general feeling was that if you worked for one editor, you couldn’t work for another. INFANTINO: Pretty much so, though every once in a while, Kanigher asked me to do a story for him. But I really didn’t have the time, because Julie kept me busy. The only reason I’d work for Kanigher was if I had a hole in my schedule. I should say that there’s nothing personal in that statement—it was just the way it was. Bob and Julie shared an office, so Julie was right there when Bob would ask me. I think I did “The Trigger Twins” for Bob—and I did a lot of westerns for Julie. JA: Including “Super-Chief,” which I liked. INFANTINO: So did I. You know, we were really scrambling in those days, trying to find something that would sell. Westerns, romance, science-fiction...you name it. I did a thing called “Captain Comet” for Julie. Nothing seemed to make an impact, until we did “The Flash.” JA: Did you feel as though Julie was more enthusiastic about doing the science-fiction comics as compared to his other books?
JA: Did you ever think about writing your own stuff for Julie?
INFANTINO: Absolutely. If you read his super-hero stories carefully, you’ll see he always had a lot of science-fiction in them— “Batman” being the exception. But Julie worked just as hard on the westerns as he did on the science-fiction.
INFANTINO: No. I did write my own stuff for the newspaper strip ideas I had, but only then. I was too busy drawing to even consider writing. JA: I know there were times you had an inker you didn’t like. When that happened, did you complain to Julie?
And we did “Strange Sports Stories.” I’m not sure, but I think Irwin Donenfeld wanted a sports book, so Julie came up with this idea. Julie called me and said, “I want this to look different.” I came up with those silhouettes in the captions to make it different. I always tried my best to please Julie and he respected me. We had a good rapport.
INFANTINO: Yes. But there was no changing Julie’s mind about those things, so I’d just go along with it. There was one inker who complained about inking my stuff. By the way, who’s going to ink my cover for this issue? JA: I am.
JA: When you started moving up in the company, did your relationship with Julie change?
INFANTINO: Good. JA: How good were you about meeting deadlines? INFANTINO: I was perfect. I never missed a deadline in my whole life. One time, I had to go to the hospital for an operation. I
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A page from The Flash #312 (Aug. 1982), when Carmine returned to show young artists how it should be done. Inks by Dennis Jensen, script by Cary Bates. [©2004 DC Comics.]
INFANTINO: No. When I was the cover editor, he’d come to me and tell me what he needed. He’d sit down, I would do the roughs, and he’d pick what he liked.
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The Legendary Carmine Infantino on Julius Schwartz
(Above:) We said it before in earlier pages, but we can’t resist expressing our gratitude again to Carmine, who rarely sits down at the drawing board these days, for penciling the above artwork for this special Julie Schwartz issue of Alter Ego once again. What? You didn’t think we weren’t gonna run a copy of Carmine’s pencils, did you? No way! (Below:) Jim Amash, who made all the arrangements with the artist for the cover, also inked it, with Carmine’s blessing—but, because it’s a horizontal layout, when it came time to turn it into a cover, we had to choose between running the art sideways, and “cropping” it slightly so Julie and Flash would be bigger. We opted for the latter, but were determined that you should see the entire drawing, first exactly as Carmine penciled it, then as Jim inked it. Any way you slice it—it’s a beauty! [Art ©2004 Carmine Infantino; The Flash TM & ©2004 DC Comics.] SPECIAL NOTE: The original art to this cover by Carmine and Jim is being auctioned off by All Star Auctions at the San Diego Comic-Con this July. Check their website at <www.allstaracutions.net> for details!
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time, too. I split those two up because I wanted a different approach to the books. They both did wonderful books. Now, Murray Boltinoff was a wonderful editor, too, and never got enough credit for what he did. His books always sold. It was my idea to put Jim Aparo on Murray’s book, The Brave and the Bold, and that book was our best-selling Batman title. Aparo was great. JA: I agree. Now, when Julie took over Superman, he decided to make Clark Kent a television reporter. Considering that he was changing the mythology of the Clark Kent persona... INFANTINO: Julie discussed it with me first. Television had become so big by that time, and there was a change in the country in regard to how people got their news, so I figured “Why not do it?” JA: You didn’t have to go to any higher-ups for that change? INFANTINO: [laughs] I was the higher-up, so it was my decision. JA: In your opinion, what made Julie such a great editor? INFANTINO: Julie was diligent; he worked very hard to make his books the best. Julie knew what he wanted and what worked. JA: Julie always said he didn’t know much about art. INFANTINO: He said that? Well, Julie knew what he liked. That’s what made him so good. And he liked what I did, so I was in good shape. [laughter] When I was in his office, he made me read the script before I left. He said, “Read the script. If you have any problems, tell me about them now.” If there was a problem, we’d talk it out, but generally, there were no problems. He never gave me any trouble, and I did my best for him. I was very fortunate to have Julie for an editor. I call it a magical experience. Julie was a real legend in his time and beyond. There will never be another career like his. There was nobody like him—before and after. (Above:) Carmine Infantino’s splash for the very first “Trigger Twins” story, in All-Star Western #58 (April-May 1951), right after the mag changed from being a “Justice Society” vehicle. Thanks to Bob Cherry for the scan. (Right:) We’ve printed the splash of Carmine’s full art for the “Super-Chief” origin before, so here’s another page from that minor classic from All-Star Western #117 (Feb.-March 1961). The date is exactly ten years after All-Star Comics #57 had marked the end of the JSA. After two more issues, the first series of All-Star Western, too, would be cancelled—but Carmine’s art sent it out with a bang! [©2004 DC Comics.]
JA: Later on, when you were DC’s publisher, you were still laying out most of the companies’ covers. INFANTINO: Right. I was so busy that I didn’t take a vacation for ten years. I couldn’t help it, because I had so much to do. There were business meetings to attend, editors to deal with, cover artists to deal with, and I just worked all the time. JA: I figure you were so busy that you just didn’t have time to do three cover roughs and have Julie pick one. And you were Julie’s boss at this point... INFANTINO: I still let him choose what he wanted. I did that with all the editors, because I wanted them to be comfortable with the covers on their books. My relationship with Julie never changed. I’d tell him, “If you don’t like the covers, say so. I’ll do another one.” Julie was always honest about how he felt, so finding common ground was never a problem. If there was a problem with any editor, I’d sit down with them to find out what we could do to fix things. And we’d work things out. JA: Who picked Julie to take over the Superman books when Mort Weisinger retired? INFANTINO: I did. I gave Action Comics to Murray Boltinoff at that
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“We Called Him ‘Sabertooth’!” Golden/Silver Age Artist JOE GIELLA Talks about His Friend JULIUS SCHWARTZ In photo (l. to r.), Joe Giella, Julie Schwartz, & Carmine Infantino celebrate The Flash’s 60th anniversary at the All Time Classic New York Comic Book Convention, held in June 2000, courtesy of Joe Petrilak. This con was aptly named, featuring as it did perhaps the greatest gathering of Golden/Silver Age comics super-stars in recent memory—as can be seen on various pages of this issue.
Interview Conducted & Transcribed b.y Jim Amash
(Right:) A rare instance of Joe Giella penciling as well as inking a Batman illo— but, of course, Joe drew the Batman strip some time back, and has been drawing the Mary Worth newspaper comic strip for years. Sketch courtesy of Shaun Clancy. [Art ©2004 Joe Giella; Batman TM & ©2004 DC Comics.]
[INTERVIEWER’S INTRO: Joe Giella is a long-time artist who got his start in the 1940s working for Timely Comics, eventually making his way over to DC and editor Julie Schwartz. Joe inked primarily for Julie, delineating Carmine Infantino’s Flash, Gil Kane’s Green Lantern, and a multitude of other material. He was also a long-time friend of Julie’s. Joe was the type of guy who always delivered good work—and on time, too! I’d write more about Joe, but I don’t have to, because in the very near future, Alter Ego will present an in-depth interview with Joe about his career. In the meantime, Joe and I will talk a little about his boss and friend: Julie Schwartz. —Jim.] JIM AMASH: What was it like working for Julie? JOE GIELLA: Julie was a no-nonsense editor. He was very strict with deadlines. When he told you that he needed a job by a certain date, that was it! You’d better get that job in. That one of the reasons I got along with him, because the only time I was ever late was when my dad passed away. I worked with Julie for 35 to 40 years and we got along very well. I remember how I started with Julie. My friend, Frank Giacoia introduced me to Julie, and he warned me that Julie was a tough editor! Despite that fact, Frank still thought Julie and I would get along well. Julie was cordial during out first meeting, and he provided me with work immediately. He liked what I did, and always put me on the top features. And the check was there every week. [laughs] That tipped the scales for me. JA: Since Julie was all business in the office, I assume it took a little time for him to warm up to you, socially.
reason for it. He wasn’t petty and he wasn’t arbitrary. He was a professional and expected you to act as one.
GIELLA: Yeah, it took a while, but I had to work at it. As long as I got my work in on time, and didn’t antagonize him, everything seemed to work out just fine. When his wife Jean wasn’t well, I’d always ask how she was doing. Julie thanked me for asking; he knew I cared. We got to like each other. There were a few people who didn’t get along with him, but I wasn’t one of them.
JA: Carmine Infantino told me that Julie wasn’t the type to hand out many compliments.
JA: Well, I figure most of their dislike would have been because Julie was tough and wouldn’t let them get away with something, rather than Julie just being a jerk. GIELLA: Right. Julie wasn’t a jerk. If he was tough, he had a legitimate
GIELLA: He did a few times, but we had a nickname for Julie. We called him “Sabertooth”! [mutual laughter] I can’t remember whether it was me or Frank Giacoia who gave Julie that nickname. I can tell these stories because I was very close to him; there’s no malice intended. When Julie liked your work, he’d flash his two front teeth: they’d come out like a sabertooth tiger’s, and he’d give you a little smile. He didn’t come out and say, “Awwww, this is a great job!” Carmine was right; he wasn’t like that. He would nod and say, “Good, good. Now, what about the next job? I heard you were going to be doing something else. Is that
“We Called Him Sabertooth!” going to interfere with my schedule?” JA: Julie was the type of guy to help you out if you needed it, too. GIELLA: True. There were a few guys who didn’t feel that way, but Julie was always in my corner when I needed him. There was one time when I needed some money, and I asked Julie if he would set up a meeting between Irwin Donenfeld [DC’s editorial director at the time] and me. I didn’t want to go over Julie’s head. Julie understood my situation, set the meeting up, and I was able to get a small loan. Now, whether he did that for anyone else, I can’t say. JA: Of course, it’s all in how you ask, too.
37 changes on Carmine’s work. I explained this to Carmine, and he understood it wasn’t me—it was Julie. I wouldn’t be happy having anyone change my work, if the situation were reversed. I was always a team player, so I’d do it. Carmine was such a good artist; he could design a page or cover better than just about anybody. JA: How often would Julie ask you to make changes? GIELLA: It depended on who the penciler was. He knew which pencilers needed a slight fix here and there, and which ones didn’t. With Irv Novick, Julie just handed me the pages because he knew how I’d ink them. I never had to make changes on his stuff. The same with Bob Brown and Dick Dillin. There was one penciler’s work that Julie had me making a lot of changes on. It wasn’t that the guy was bad, but I had to pick up the drawing a little bit.
GIELLA: Exactly! I didn’t want to look like I was begging, so I just came out and talked to him. Julie respected straightforwardness, although he wasn’t happy when Mort Weisinger wanted me to pencil and ink the Batman newspaper JA: Was there ever a time that you strip. That was because Julie knew he’d expressed a preference for doing be losing my services. Julie said, “Why features other than those you did? do you want to do that? I give you enough work.” I told him I just wanted GIELLA: No, I never did. I was happy to try something else for a little while, to do all the features that Julie gave me: Along with Batman, one of Joe’s other most high-profile and with the strip, I was penciling and The Flash, Batman, Superman, Green assignments was as the longtime inker of The Flash. Splash of Flash #141 (Dec. 1963) penciled by Carmine Infantino; script inking, whereas with Julie, I only inked. Lantern, Hopalong Cassidy, Wonder probably by John Broome. [©2004 DC Comics.] You know, in that era, newspaper syndiWoman, etc. I was always in Julie’s top cation was considered to be the pinnacle books. If I was unhappy, I would have that all the artists strived for. I was no exception. said something, but that was never the case because Julie kept me busy. I was more concerned with how good the penciling was—that was the JA: Did you pencil much for Julie? key. If you get a job that’s not good, then you really have to knock your brains out to do a decent ink job. Inking isn’t easy—you know that. GIELLA: Most of my penciling for Julie was in the form of doing corrections on the art I inked. I did pencil some stuff for the licensing department.
JA: I sure do. Now, you started working for Julie in 1950. How long did you work for Julie before you became social friends?
JA: Did you ever ask Julie for penciling work?
GIELLA: I’d say about two years. Julie knew right away that he could depend on me. He used to say, “I can set my clock by when Joe brings in a job.” That made him happy. Now, my friend Frank Giacoia was the opposite. Julie used to get unhappy with him, and they would argue about Frank’s lateness. I asked Frank why he had trouble delivering the work. He would say something like, “Well, I really didn’t want to do that job. I wanted to do something else.”
GIELLA: Not really, because he loaded me up with inking work. What spare time I did have was spent working with Dan Barry on Flash Gordon. There was no time for anything else. JA: What do you think there was about your work that Julie really liked—besides your ability to make his deadlines? GIELLA: Julie liked the fact that I took a job and was dedicated to doing my best at all times. In fact, he’d get rid of you if you weren’t like that. Julie used to ask me things like, “What are you going to do with that panel, Joe? I don’t like it. I think it’s a little bit weak.” I’d say, “Don’t worry about Julie. I’ll fix it.” He’d say, “Yeah, but tell me how you’re going to fix it.” I’d say “First of all, I’m going to pick a light source. I’m going to have the light coming from one direction and then put a little darkness here to pick it up, visually. Then I’m going to solidify that shape, and lighten up this other shape, and use a light touch on the backgrounds so they’ll look further away. I’m going to keep the foreground prominent...” And that’s when he’d flash his saberteeth, because he knew I knew what I was talking about. He knew he could trust me. Julie also liked the fact that when he asked me to make a change, I could give him what he wanted. At times, he would ask me to make
JA: What did Julie like to do for relaxation? GIELLA: Play cards. He had a wonderful relationship with his wife Jean. He really adored her. A few months before Julie passed away, we went to the fair and Julie had his wife’s photo with him. She passed away over twenty years ago, but he always carried her picture with him. It was very touching. Julie used to hang out with Bernie and Bernice Sachs, who lived nearby. And when Bernie passed away, Julie kept in contact with Bernice. Our relationship was a little different: we’d go to conventions together and I’d drive him around. JA: What were Julie and Jean like together? GIELLA: They were adored each other. Julie thought about her all the time. Julie used to annoy Bob Kanigher, with whom Julie shared an office. At a certain time, every day, Julie would dial Jean up. He never
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Joe Giella Talks About His Friend Julius Schwartz
deviated from that ritual. He’d ask how she was doing and if she felt all right. For some reason, that got on Bob’s nerves. Everything in Julie’s apartment was just the way she left it. If she left a pillow in a certain place, it remained there... things like that. Her memories were there and Julie didn’t want to disturb them. JA: Julie was anti-smoking.... GIELLA: But you know Julie used to smoke. He quit when his wife contracted cancer. If I could smoke the way Julie smoked, I’d have never quit smoking. With me, when I used to smoke—I quit over 45 years ago—I used to smoke two packs a day. I never really considered Julie to be a smoker, since he only smoked a couple of cigarettes a day. JA: Did you go to lunch with Julie when you worked for him? GIELLA: I did. His favorite soup was Yankee bean soup. He used to call me up and ask, “Are you coming in? What time will you be here?” I’d tell him eleven o’clock and Julie would say, “Okay. Don’t be late, don’t be late. Bean soup today.” [laughter] And if a writer was there, then he’d come with us. When a writer did come with us, the conversation revolved around the script they were working on. A few times, I felt that Julie was happier talking about something else besides the script, because he spent his whole day doing that in the office. Lunch was a diversion and I think he’d have rather talked about baseball or anything else besides work.
together, Julie would say, “Joe, sit next to me.” I said, “Why?” Julie said, “Well, because the last time someone asked you a question, I had to help you.” [laughter] So I always sat next to him at panels. Now, if someone asked me how I got my start in comics or who’s my favorite character, I could answer. But if someone asked what happened in issue so-and-so of The Flash... well, I couldn’t tell them. I would refer them to Frank, who usually traveled with me. I couldn’t answer those questions, but Julie could. That man was sharp as a tack! He remembered everything: the good and the bad. I admired him for that. I’d tell people, “Look, I’m no Julie Schwartz.” Julie always had long lines at his convention tables. People admired and respected him and wanted to meet him. Everybody knew Julie Schwartz. JA: Well, he was so lovable. And he played the part! GIELLA: Right. Julie would go to dealers’ tables and scream, “Where’s my t-shirt? You promised me a t-shirt.” [mutual laughter] He never forgot a promise. He was a real character! People loved it when he did stuff like that. I’m really going to miss him. You want to know something, Jim? I still can’t believe Julie’s gone. I know he’s gone, but it doesn’t feel like he is.
JA: Are there any personal or funny stories about Julie that come to mind?
GIELLA: I understand exactly how you feel. Near the end, when Julie was in the hospital, I told him, “Julie, you got to get out of here so I can bring you some bean soup.” Julie said, “I’m leaving right now!” [laughter] As soon as Julie got home, I brought him the soup. My wife Shirley made Julie all kinds of meals over the years. Julie loved Shirley and he especially loved her bean soup. We had him over to our house quite often.
GIELLA: [laughs] Yeah. You know, Julie worked with a writer on his autobiography. He took the book everywhere with him and loved to hawk it at conventions. What really got me was a time when we were on a plane bound for the San Diego Convention. Julie took the book out and showed it to the passengers sitting next to him. He walked up and down the aisles, showing it around. [mutual laughter] I felt like crawling under my seat! He was tempestuous at times. Another time, we were leaving the convention and taking a plane back home. Now, it was a long walk to the plane, and Julie said, “Joe, I’m getting a little tired. I can’t make it.” I asked my son Frank to get Julie a wheelchair and I wheeled Julie up to the plane. I knew he was feeling better when he started in with the stewardess. She was walking up and down the aisle, handing out peanuts, and Julie said, “Hey! You forgot me!” That was Julie! Once again, I felt like crawling under my seat. Every time we sat on a panel
JA: I feel the same way. And working on this issue makes me feel like he’s still here.
Some people thought he was a cold guy, because he was all business in the office. I never felt that way. When my son Joey was a year old, a steam iron fell on his fingers and badly injured him. We rushed him to the hospital and were worried that he was permanently damaged. But the doctors took care of him and his hand was fine. Julie kept calling and checking up on my son’s health. Every time I went into the office, he’d ask how Joey was doing. His concern really meant a lot to me. He was the same way when my parents died. When Julie’s wife passed away, I was there for him. These are the things that you don’t forget and why I was close to Julie. Julie and Jean came to my wedding. It was great to see them there. This 1964 page from Detective Comics #327, the first of the “New Look” issues that helped save Batman even before the 1966 TV series, was signed for proud owner Frank Giella by Carmine, Julie, and Joe. [©2004 DC Comics.]
Now, when I quit doing the Batman strip, I called Julie and told him the syndicate deadlines had
“We Called Him Sabertooth!”
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A photo of Joe Giella, Julie Schwartz, and (standing) Mad great and former DC artist Mort Drucker— flanked by line portraits by Joe of Julie and himself. All courtesy of Frank Giella. So why isn’t Julie’s “sabretooth” showing, Joe? [Art ©2004 Joe Giella.]
become too much and I wanted to come back to comic books. Julie was very happy and that’s when I saw the “Sabertooth.” He said, “Oh, great! Great! When do you want to start?” I said, “Julie, I still have a couple of months to go.” [laughter] JA: I never saw Julie in the DC offices. I only saw him at conventions and all I ever saw was his warm-hearted, funny, irascible side. Maybe some people who thought Julie was “cold” mistook that for his business demeanor? GIELLA: That’s what I’m talking about! Some people thought that of him, but Julie wasn’t a cold person. He was a religious person; a warm person who would never hurt anybody. He wasn’t vindictive; any teasing he ever did was in fun. Julie didn’t take any pleasure in making people uncomfortable. You know what would hurt Julie? If someone took him seriously, and started yelling at him. Julie didn’t want to be yelled at: he wanted respect. He definitely got it from me! He got it from Carmine, he got it from Frank Giacoia... and he definitely got it from Murphy Anderson. He got it from Gil Kane. JA: And if you could get it from Gil Kane... GIELLA: Let me tell you something: I actually thought Julie felt that Gil Kane was like a son to him. He knew Gil’s faults like nobody else, but it didn’t matter. I was on a panel with Gil and he was very ill at the time. I spoke after he did and while I was answering a question, I saw— out of the corner of my eye—that Gil was starting to doze off. He wasn’t being disrespectful; it was the cancer medications he was on. Gil was thin and white as a sheet. Julie saw this and I know he was very upset about it. He really liked Gil and to see him in this condition was painful for both Julie and myself. JA: I always felt that Julie cared more about people than he ever let them know. GIELLA: You’re right, Jim. When Julie trusted someone, he really trusted them. That’s why we became friends. He did hold back with some people, because he didn’t like to argue. He didn’t like to get in the middle of things. A couple of times, when we talked about politics, Julie did everything he could to change that subject. You know the old saying: if you want to make enemies, talk about politics or religion. So I avoided that subject. JA: I never talked politics with Julie, but I always thought he was a Democrat. GIELLA: He definitely was a Democrat. I was, too... in fact, my whole family was, but now I’ve changed. JA: And Julie was one of the least prejudiced people I ever knew.
GIELLA: Oh, absolutely! He didn’t care what color you were and didn’t care for people who were prejudiced. Here again, he didn’t like to talk about those things. Some people will disagree with me, but Julie didn’t like to argue. He was the editor and a creature of habit; he wanted things his way. He knew his job and didn’t want anyone to interfere with it. Julie really loved the comic book business, but he loved sciencefiction, too. Science-fiction was his first love. My personal feeling was that he had very little interest in anything else. A good story really excited him. He got excited when he’d hear how much an original piece of art went for at auction. One time, Julie called me up and said, “Joe. Did you get the call from Skip Farrell?” Skip Farrell was the president of Pepsi-Cola division in Vermont. His wife invited a few of Skip’s favorite artists to Vermont. Julie asked if I was going. I said I wasn’t sure. Julie said, “We gotta go up, Joe. It’ll look bad if we don’t. They’re going to pick us up.” [mutual laughter] I said, “If they don’t pick us up, how will you get up there?” Julie said, “If they’re not going to pick us up, then I’m not going.” [more laughter] They were going to fly us up, but Julie didn’t want to fly in a small plane. He talked them into sending a limo for us. Can you believe that? [laughter] All the way to Vermont and back! JA: What occasion was this for? GIELLA: Skip Farrell’s wife wanted to have a surprise birthday party for him. Skip was a comic book fan and original art collector, so she invited a few of his favorite creators to this party: Carmine Infantino, Julie, Nick Cardy (who had been flown in from Florida), Joe Rubinstein, Irwin Hasen, and me. She also invited my son Frank, because he’s an original art collector, too, and they did some business together. It took over seven hours to get to Vermont, but we had more fun going up on that trip than I could tell you. We drove the limo driver right out of his mind, laughing and joking and reminiscing about the old days. The surprise was that we’d all be in Skip’s room when he walked in. His wife had taken framed original art off of the walls and removed the work from the frames. All of us signed the pages. She hired cooks to come to her house. We were wined and dined in an expensive hotel. I’ll never forget it because I was penciling and inking a “Batman” story for DC at the time—the same way I had drawn the newspaper strip in the 1960s. I had to take the job up there and finish it because of my deadline, so I worked on it in my hotel room. It wasn’t easy because I was constantly interrupted by people coming in to talk to me. But I’m used to that. We stayed there for a few days, did some sightseeing and spent a lot of time together before we went back home. We all had a great time. Most of my experiences with Julie were good ones. We will miss him.
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“I Never Felt Like I Was Working For A Boss When I Worked For Julie!” Artistic Great MURPHY ANDERSON on Working with the “Spectre-acular” Schwartz Interview Conducted & Transcribed by Jim Amash professionally? Like, what would he say if you told him you were going to be three days late on a job? ANDERSON: He’d usually try to work with you on that. I was late a few times... just about everyone was at some point. Other than ranting and raving—which was part of his “schtick”—he was really very good about it. What can I tell (Left to right:) Murphy Anderson, Curt Swan, and Julie Schwartz you? If he could work together in Artists’ Alley in a Chicago Comicon in the mid-1990s— with Gil Kane, and me, flanked by the (signed) cover and splash of Superman #411, the and several others who “Happy 70th Birthday, Julius Schwartz!” issue in 1985. Ironically, that would prove to be the last time the pair of artists, often referred to couldn’t estimate time that affectionately by readers as “Swanderson,” would work together on well, then you know he the Man of Steel. Thanks to Bob Bailey for the art scans, and to A/E had patience and loyalty. transcriber Brian K. Morris for the photo. [Pages ©2004 DC Comics.] But if it got out of hand, then he’d have to do something about it. I never saw him actually dock anyone or take work away from someone—nothing like that. [INTERVIEWER’S NOTE: Murphy Anderson was not only a long time freelancer for Julie Schwartz, but a good friend, as well. Murphy’s slick, organic ink style helped set the DC look for many years, and his occasional pencil-and-ink jobs were well received and fondly remembered today. Now that I think about it, Murphy worked with Julie for as long a period of time as anyone. Not only that, but they were at a lot of the same comic book conventions—mine included. For those unlucky souls who never got to meet Julie, Murphy’s warm, personal remembrances will bring the great man back to life for a few pages. —Jim.] MURPHY ANDERSON: Julie was a great editor, a good man, and a special person. He set standards for others to follow. Beyond that, he was everything you could ask for from a friend. JIM AMASH: What was he like to deal with
JA: Everyone knows that Julie commissioned covers and then built stories around them. When you drew covers, did you bring in one rough or several? ANDERSON: He’d ask for several. When I lived down in Greensboro, North Carolina, I’d come up to the office several times a year to do covers for him. I wasn’t doing stories at this point because I was working full-time for my father’s cab company. I’d jot down ideas on the train to New York and make several roughs. Ideas would occur to me, and sometimes I took rejected ideas
“I Never Felt Like I Was Working For A Boss When I Worked For Julie!” and tried to make them work. I’d jot down crazy ideas. For instance, my wife Helen and I had two parakeets (this was before we had children), so I got the idea of using those birds on a cover. Julie liked the idea, so we did a Strange Adventures cover with parakeets. And working around my dad’s garage... well, he had an antenna. His cab company was the first one to have radios, which required installing an antenna on top of the building. I got to thinking about that antenna and got an idea about a monster coming out of it. I talked to Julie about it and we did a cover with that theme. The “Pit and the Pendulum” cover for the first Adam Strange Showcase [issue #17] was my idea. We couldn’t work this one out, though I had the idea for this kind of cover a couple of times before. Julie hadn’t given me details about Adam Strange yet, so I had no idea what his plans were for the character. I worked up a cover with the guy swinging on the pendulum and Julie wanted me to dress him up in a futuristic costume. The costume was more or less a Buck Rogers costume with a little Flash Gordon thrown in. We played with the idea, and Julie wasn’t happy with what I was coming up with. He didn’t think it looked quite right. It was late afternoon and I had a train to catch, so Julie said we’d have to put the idea aside. I said, “Maybe I could come up with the right idea? I think I know what you’re looking for. I’ll do the cover and send it to you. If you don’t like it, then don’t use it.” Well, he didn’t use my cover, but he did use the costume. JA: Whatever happened to that cover? ANDERSON: I have no idea. I never saw it again. I wrote a cover letter with that package and made a carbon copy of it, but I’ve somehow
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misplaced it. In the meantime, Julie had Gil draw another cover for the first “Adam Strange,” but I don’t remember how different it was from mine. Gil’s was a little more “Kirby-ish” than mine, and maybe that’s what Julie was looking for. Gil changed the costume a little bit, but not by much. I don’t think I gave Adam Strange sleeves, and Gil drew him so it looked like he was wearing a t-shirt. That didn’t last. The rocket belt was my idea, though I made it more like a Buck Rogers’ belt. Who changed it to a rocket pack, I don’t know. That’s something I’d have argued about, because it looked like Adam Strange would burn his fanny off every time he turned it on. But when Dave Stevens created The Rocketeer, it didn’t seem to bother him too much. I thought the Buck Rogers thing would have been better. JA: Did you socialize with Julie when you worked for him? ANDERSON: We socialized. Julie and his wife Jean were my guests and my mother and father’s guests. When I was going back to North Carolina on one trip—I was driving a Buick convertible—Julie and Jean went along. That was kind-of interesting. My mother was a Baptist, and we got to her house on a Friday. She had made a big chicken dinner, and of course, back then, Catholics didn’t eat meat on Fridays. She didn’t think in those terms, so she made a big feast. I remember Jean was put off just a bit by that. That was the trip where—just for Julie’s benefit—I stopped the car when we got to the North Carolina border, got out, and kissed the ground. [mutual laughter] Julie never forgot that! He often told that story. When I decided to leave the taxi business, Helen and I bought a house and moved to New Jersey. I was freelancing for Julie and working at home. One day, I told Julie I needed to take a week off and he asked why. I told him I had to paint the house. He said, “Paint the house? You can hire somebody to do that.” I said, “No Julie, it doesn’t quite work that way. I’ll save money if I do it.” Julie said, “But you’d be working.” I said, “Yeah, but I’ll save money. You don’t know how much painters charge.” He couldn’t understand the logic of that. And he loved to tell that one on me, too.
While drawing “Captain Comet” and other science-fiction features for Julie in the early ’50s, Anderson kept his hand in at other companies. “The Guardians of the Clockwork Universe!” by “Edgar Ray Merritt” (probably still writer John Broome) and Murphy, from Strange Adventures #22 (July 1952), is clearly a forerunner of the Guardians of the Universe in the 1960s-70s Green Lantern— while the page at right appeared in Standard’s Fantastic Worlds, which ran for three issues in 1952-53, and resembles his work on the Buck Rogers newspaper comic strip. Thanks to Bob Bailey for a scan of the latter—even if we’re not sure just what issue it came from! [“Captain Comet” splash ©2004 DC Comics; Fantastic Worlds page ©2004 the respective copyright holders.]
JA: Yeah, Julie told me that one. He also told this story: he was annoyed at Bob Kane’s refusal to admit he had ghosts drawing his “Batman” stories. One day, Kane came in with a story and Julie said he didn’t like the way Kane had drawn Batman’s arm in one panel, so he asked Kane to redraw it. Kane went into the bullpen, and returned a few minutes later. Julie said, “This looks worse than it did before,” knowing that Kane hadn’t originally
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Murphy Anderson On Working WIth The “Spectre-acular” Schwartz and for some reason, you admitted it. [mutual laughter] I showed you some of my artwork and you gave a long, helpful critique. Before we parted ways, you gave me your business card and told me to keep in touch and send you more samples. Acme Comics opened for business the next year, and the guys decided to throw a convention. Since I was the only one who had contact information for you, I was instrumental in getting you as a guest. The next year, you got Julie to come to the show. Not only that, you were the one who talked to Will Eisner about being a guest that year, so he was there, too. ANDERSON: I had quit doing P.S. Magazine in 1983, so I may have been doing some work for Julie at that time. I remember that show because I took Will on a little tour of Greensboro. He was a big fan of O. Henry, and since O. Henry came from Greensboro, I thought he’d like to know about O. Henry in Greensboro.
(Above:) Hey, dig Murphy Anderson’s distinctive but only occasionally-used “MA” signature at bottom left of this “Atomic Knight” splash. Splash to this Australian black-&-white reprinting-of-a-reprint of the story from Strange Adventures #144 (hence the later-added credits) was sent by Michael Baulderstone. (Right:) A late-1960s pencil sketch of Atomic Knight leader Gardner Grayle, done by Murphy for a young Marv Wolfman’s sketchbook in the late ’60s. Thanks, Marv! [Sketch ©2004 Murphy Anderson; Atomic Knights TM & ©2004 DC Comics.]
drawn the arm. “Go back and do it again.” Kane left Julie’s office, and when he came back, Julie looked at the page and said, “That’s very good. So why didn’t you do this the first time?” Kane said, “I have to be honest with you. I got Murphy Anderson to redraw the arm.” ANDERSON: Oh yeah. He thought that was humorous, though I was a little embarrassed every time he told that story. I didn’t know what was going on. All I knew was that Bob asked me to fix the arm because Julie wanted it changed. Julie wanted a big fist coming towards the reader, so I did a rough sketch of it. Bob said, “Yeah, I think I can make that work.” I might have simply delineated it; I really can’t remember. Later, Bob told me that Julie liked it.
JA: I can still remember how you introduced me to Julie. You were so formal about it and I was trying not to act excited. It was a great moment for me. Now, when Julie was no longer editing, did he change any? I ask because I know he was very business-like in the offices. ANDERSON: Julie was his same old irascible self. Our relationship was always very good and we just continued it. I never felt like I was working for a boss when I worked for Julie—after a time, that is. In the beginning, I did feel that way. JA: How did you become one of Julie’s “regulars”? ANDERSON: I guess he hired me because he needed me at the time. Of course, I was into science-fiction, and Julie didn’t have too many artists who had expertise in that area. Gil Kane was one of the few who did. There were others who drew science-fiction for Julie. JA: You were looking for work and Julie was one of the guys you went to. Is that right?
I knew Bob had ghosts drawing for him. I remember visiting Lew Schwartz once and he was working on a “Batman” story. That was around 1947 or ’48. I was visiting Fiction House at the time, looking for work. I wasn’t making a whole lot of money doing the Buck Rogers newspaper strip, so I needed other work. I wasn’t working for DC yet.
ANDERSON: Not quite. I was working for Jerry Siegel at Ziff-Davis, and one day Jerry said, “I’m sorry, Murphy, but I don’t have a script ready for you now.” That panicked me a little, because I had got an apartment in New York on the strength of my Ziff-Davis account. Actually, Ziff-Davis referred me to Jerry when I was working for them in Chicago. They published magazines, in addition to their pulps, and I was doing science-fiction for them, though I did do one western.
JA: I met Julie through you. In 1982, Shelton Drum was throwing a mini-con at the Four Seasons Mall in Greensboro, and you’d come down to visit your mother and heard about this show, so you unexpectedly showed up. I spotted you and said to a friend, “I think that’s Murphy Anderson.” I approached you and asked if you were,
So I decided to go home and get my portfolio in order to look around for some freelance work. I went to a few places, but when I got up to DC Comics, Julie wasn’t in. Murray Boltinoff came out and talked to me, though I didn’t know him or any of the other editors until then. Murray said, “I think Julie would like to talk to you, but he’s not in
“I Never Felt Like I Was Working For A Boss When I Worked For Julie!” today. Can you come back tomorrow?” I said, “Sure, I’ll give it a shot.” The next day I came in and showed Julie my work. He and I knew a lot of the same people, like Ray Palmer—whom I worked for at ZiffDavis. Julie gave me a script for a Strange Adventures story, which I think was written by Edmond Hamilton. JA: What were your early impressions of Julie? ANDERSON: I immediately liked him. He was easy to work with. He wasn’t demanding and would let me do things my way. He never asked me to work like someone else. I mostly did the complete art job, penciling and inking, but I also drew some stories for others to ink. Seymour Barry, Joe Giella, and Bernie Sachs all inked quite a bit of my stuff. JA: How did you get to the point where you were inking other people? ANDERSON: That happened when I came back to DC after my last Buck Rogers stint. I had dropped off from doing stories and covers for Julie, though I did a story or two for Bob Kanigher while living in Greensboro. But when Helen and I moved back to New York—after the Doctor Wertham depression—work was scarce. Julie said the only thing he could give me was inking work. He asked if I’d be interested in that, and that’s when I started inking, though I occasionally penciled and inked science-fiction jobs for him. Then things got a little better in the industry, and I went back to penciling and inking, though I continued to do ink jobs for Julie. JA: You were one of the artists who worked on the Superman issue [#411] that celebrated Julie’s 70th birthday. Tell me about that.
rupted my continuity!” [laughter] Julie was in the middle of a two- or three-part story, and this issue was slipped in between those parts. JA: That was in 1985. You had come to our June 1 convention and Julie’s birthday was June 19. Jack Kirby and Julie were our other main guests that year, and you told us about the surprise and asked us to keep the secret, which we did. We had a surprise birthday for Julie that Saturday night. Any other personal stories about Julie that come to mind? ANDERSON: Once, I brought in some of my pulp magazines, and Julie put them in a drawer in the hallway so others could read them, too. He loved those covers and used a number of them for comic covers. We used to trade puns. Often, he would use some of them in stories. I coined the phrase “Spectre-acular” when I was working on The Spectre. Julie used it, and though I hadn’t intended for it to be used, it was a good line. Another thing I remember was the time we brought back the Black Canary to team-up with Starman. I really worked on Julie trying to get him to bring her back as a black woman. He said, “No, no, we can’t do that.” To me, it would have been a great idea, and she’d have been the first black female super-hero. But it might have been a little too sensitive for the times, considering social conditions in some areas. Julie was not a prejudiced man, but he understood that some people weren’t as enlightened as others. And any change like that would have to go through the front office, and people think differently about things in the front office—like how it would be received in the South. Julie was an open-minded person. He had definite likes and dislikes, but he was willing to listen to anything. He never dismissed anything out of hand, except where smoking was concerned. On that, he was adamant. He’d get up and scold a perfect stranger about smoking if they were bothering him. [laughs] It’s a wonder he didn’t get into trouble doing that.
ANDERSON: That was done when my company was doing color separations for DC. Bob Rozakis called me about it and I agreed to get involved. I occasionally did some art for DC, and Elliot Maggin and Curt Swan had already agreed to do the story. They gave me pages when I came up to the offices for other work, so Julie wouldn’t get suspicious about what I was doing. I didn’t always come up to the offices during that period, so we had to plan things to keep the secret. If Julie asked what I was doing at the offices, I’d have a reason to give him. Julie didn’t suspect anything because I was dealing with Bob. The front office asked me to come up the day we showed him the issue. We went into a conference room and Julie might have known something was going on, but he didn’t figure it out. Jeanette Kahn and Paul Levitz were there and presented Julie with the issue. He was quite surprised, but not at a loss for words. He said, “You inter-
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JA: Well, there was something about Julie that was very projectable. You immediately knew he was a nice man. I think that’s why he could get away with that. ANDERSON: He had a big heart, no question about it. He would kid with you, but would stop at some point. He never wanted to hurt anyone. He used to kid me about wearing a jacket all the time. That was something he’d do. I’d have felt neglected if he didn’t fuss about it. A photocopy of this page of original Murphy Anderson art for a 1969 issue of The Atom and Hawkman (either #43 or #44) was sent to us by Jeff Bailey… and we’re overjoyed to have it… but alas, the issue number and other info was cut off at top. The villain, of course, is The Gentleman Ghost, so the story was written by that character’s 1940s co-creator, Robert Kanigher. [©2004 DC Comics.]
Julie was very definitely a company man. He looked after the company’s interests, and he always made it comfortable for the people who worked for him. He understood these things. If you asked
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Murphy Anderson On Working WIth The “Spectre-acular” Schwartz
Julie for a raise, you couldn’t expect him to jump right up and do it. He was evidently told certain things, and it was unusual when DC gave increases—at least during my tenure. They had cut back the artists’ rates shortly before I came to work for Julie. If someone left the company and came back, they didn’t get the rate they previously had. That happened to Lee Elias, as I mentioned in my book. He never really worked for Julie after the Golden Age; he generally worked for Jack Schiff and Murray Boltinoff. At one point, he’d been their top-paid man, but they started him back at the beginner’s rate. It was a bitter pill to swallow, but he didn’t complain, though you knew it had to hurt him. There was no one who did the Caniff style better. JA: Oh yeah! By the way, Julie said he didn’t know art, but he knew what he liked. ANDERSON: That’s right. He’d say, “This doesn’t look right to me,” but he wouldn’t say that you drew this finger wrong or that the bend in the arm wasn’t right. He didn’t get into that. I knew people who knew far less about art than Julie, who’d try to tell you what to do. If he spotted a problem and you couldn’t work it out, he very often let it go. He very seldom sent something to the production department to be fixed. JA: Did you ever happen to be around when Julie had story conferences with his writers? ANDERSON: Oh yeah. In the earlier days, I’d sit and make corrections on jobs. Julie shared an office with Bob Kanigher, and they had their desks set up so if an artist needed to make a correction, he could do it there. If it was going to be an all-day thing, there was space in the production department to do that. I’m talking about the 480 Lexington days now. I couldn’t help but eavesdrop... you couldn’t help but hear Julie. [laughs] They’d start plotting in the morning and continue on at lunch. Sometimes I’d go along with them. We’d usually go down to a drug store on the corner—at least I think it was a drug store. The guy who ran the counter was named Benny. He’s listen in on the plotting and try to horn in.
poor Benny was embarrassed to tears. I didn’t get excited about it. We’ve all probably eaten worse things than that without knowing it. The worm was maybe a quarter of an inch long and the width of a fine pencil lead. “There’s a woim on this sandwich!” [mutual laughter] JA: You know, every time I ever ate a meal with Julie, he would never let me pay for it. ANDERSON: He very seldom ever picked up a check for anyone who worked with him. That just wouldn’t be good form, you know. On the other hand, we didn’t pay for his. Ol’ Gardner Fox always insisted on paying for Julie’s meal whenever we went out. But not John Broome or me—just Gardner. He was a gentleman, and that’s the way he liked to do business. Julie would make something of that and tease him. But if he felt you needed some money, he’d be the first to help you out. JA: I know what you mean. One time we were at a San Diego Con and Julie asked me what was I doing for dinner. I told him I didn’t have any plans, and he said, “Come with me.” We went to the dining room and sitting there was Gil Kane, Russ Heath, and Greg Theakston. Julie always did stuff like that and not tell me who else would be joining us—he liked to surprise me. I met Robert Bloch and Ray Bradbury that way, too. In fact, I just remembered an incident that includes you. I was at another convention, eating lunch by myself. I heard someone call my name and looked up to see Julie. He pointed to where you were sitting and said, “I’m just finishing lunch with Murphy. Why didn’t you come sit with us?” I told him that I hadn’t seen you guys sitting there. [mutual laughter] “Well, you can finish eating later. Come over and speak to Murphy right now!” It was like effrontery to Julie, but I just didn’t see you two. ANDERSON: That’s Julie. You might like this story. When Helen and I lived in Bayside, she’d get a part-time job when she wanted to work a little. She was an “Ediphone operator,” which was like a Dictaphone operator, but the Edison Company had their own system which they called the “Ediphone.” She’d call them up when she wanted to work. There were people who had their own equipment and needed someone to take dictation.
One day, we were eating there. I was having a tuna fish sandwich and I saw something funny on the lettuce. I got to looking closely and there was a tiny little worm on the lettuce. I held it up to Julie and said, “See that?” Julie saw it and said, “There’s a woim on this sandwich!” [laughter] Benny came running over, grabbed the sandwich and took it away. [mutual laughter] Julie didn’t say, “There’s a worm...” He said, “There’s a woim...” In spite of himself, Julie would say a few words with a pronounced Bronx accent. And
Here's another fabulous Anderson page from Showcase #55 (March-April 1965), wherein Dr. Fate and Hourman (and even, briefly, the original Green Lantern) battled GL’s old nemesis Solomon Grundy. One of our favorite comics from the mid-’60s! Script by Gardner Fox—and editing by Julie Schwartz. Repro’d from a photocopy of the original art, courtesy of Mike W. Barr and Tom Horvitz. [©2004 DC Comics.]
We’d go in the New York together and drive down to the World’s Fair parking lot, which is where Shea Stadium is now. Julie would often meet us there, and Tommy Nicolosi [a colorist in DC’s production room] would pick Julie up on his way to the train station. Sometimes it was embarrassing to ride on the same car with those guys. We’d usually have to stand up because the train was always filled, though Helen
“I Never Felt Like I Was Working For A Boss When I Worked For Julie!”
45 Julie didn’t usually ask for many corrections. The only times he would was when something bothered him, storywise. He never got into questioning my decision-making, unless there was something way off base. JA: Would you make color notes on your pages?
(Left:) Murphy’s dramatic splash for Part 3 of “The Million-Year-Long War!” from Hawkman #12 (Feb.March 1966). Thanks to Shane Foley for the nice b&w photocopies from an Australian reprinting. (Above:) Murphy, Irwin Hasen, and Julie at Shelton & Cynthia Drum’s Heroes Con, 1996. Although Julie was always eager to attend the San Diego Comic-Con, Ye Editor strongly suspects he always had a soft spot in his heart for this convention held each summer in Charlotte, North Carolina, and he attended every year he could make it. In fact, his Man of Two Worlds memoir made its official debut at Heroes Con in 2000, just as Julie had promised Shelton the year before! [Page ©2004 DC Comics.]
would often find a seat. We’d be standing there, bouncing around and trying to read our papers. A number of times, Julie would do things to embarrass Tommy. He’d look at him and say, “Hey, stop reading my paper, Mac!” [mutual laughter] Or he’d say, “Quit shoving me, Mac!” He’d tease Tommy like that and Tommy never had much of a comeback. One time, I said to Tommy, “The next time Julie does that, look at Julie stonily and say ‘Get your hand out of my pocket, Mac!’” [laughter] He did, and Julie didn’t think that was too funny. I told Julie that, the next time it happens, I had an answer for it. “Just look back at Tommy and say ‘I’m just looking for my wallet.’” We used to do stuff like that on elevators, too. Then there was the time Henry Sharp came to work for Julie. Remember him? Henry was a friend of mine from Chicago and had been a pulp illustrator. I met him at Ziff-Davis. Henry was used to that kind of teasing and told the story of when he was in Chicago, riding on an elevator. The girl he was with was playing the joke. She’d embarrass the heck out of him by saying stuff like “Quit touching me, you fool!” [mutual laughter] Right in a crowd of strangers! JA: I know you came up with story ideas when you drew covers for him, but was there ever an occasion where you just suggested ideas for interior stories? ANDERSON: I didn’t have too much input into plots, though I would kibitz a little with Julie and his writers at lunch. But I rarely made plot suggestions. He didn’t spend a whole lot of time with the artists as compared to the writers, with whom he’d plot all day. I’d turn in the penciled pages, and he’d have it lettered before I inked them. He’d go over the pages before I left. If there were some drastic changes to be made, he’d call me first, so I’d be prepared to come in and spend some time in the office to make the necessary changes. Sometimes it would take an hour or two to make changes.
ANDERSON: Oh yeah... depending on what was happening in the story. Sometimes I’d want a special effect, or something had to be a certain color and it wasn’t apparent in the drawing, so I’d make color notes. JA: What do you think made Julie such a good editor?
ANDERSON: Basically, it was his love for sciencefiction. He was a fan of other kinds of pulp magazines, and when he became an editor at DC, it was a natural development. There were super-hero types of characters in the pulps, like Doc Savage and The Spider. Julie, having been a writers’ agent, was well-versed in these areas. He knew all the pulp writers and had his own fan publication when he was younger. JA: It always struck me that Julie knew what he wanted.
ANDERSON: If you mean he was opinionated, yeah. If you ever went to eat with him and smoked a cigarette, he’d let you know how he felt about it. I understand that, because Jean died from smoking. JA: I believe his daughter died from smoking, too. Julie knew I was a pipe smoker, and he gave me mortal hell about it. He said, “Cut that out! That’s what killed my wife. I want you to quit and I want you to quit right now!” [mutual laughter] That was the only time he was ever upset with me. He said, “I’m only saying this out of concern, so do what I tell you!” ANDERSON: What are you going to do if someone smokes? It’s something that concerns people. I talked to my sisters about it, and my father used to smoke some. My sister Marcia married a guy named Glenn Merritt. Glenn, who was a big science-fiction fan, became a nuclear submarine commander. Now, DC was publishing Captain Action and was contemplating doing another series based on a toy: Matt Mason. The deal fell through, but not before Julie had Denny O’Neil write a “Matt Mason” story. He said, “I’ve got to change the names of the characters and change the story.” Julie asked me if I had any thoughts about it. I said, “Well, my brotherin-law has a good name. You could make the character a commander. There’s Merritt Island in Florida, where they launch rockets. There’s John Glenn.” Julie said, “Yeah, that’s a good name.” So he went with it and named the commander “Glenn Merritt.” My brother-in-law loved it. I’d like to close this interview with one more story. Anytime we were leaving to go to a convention, Julie would say, “Before you go, go!” [For still more about Julie, see our flip side!]
AND
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1994--2004
5.95
$
PRESENT
In the USA
No. 38 July 2004
Art ©2004 Irwin Hasen. Justice Society TM & ©2004 DC Comics.
Vol. 3, No. 38 / July 2004
™
Editor
Roy Thomas
Associate Editors Bill Schelly Jim Amash
Design & Layout
Christopher Day
Consulting Editor
JULIE
John Morrow
FCA Editor
Part Two
P.C. Hamerlinck
Comic Crypt Editor
Contents
A Testimonial for Julius Schwartz . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 Harlan Ellison’s verbal and photographic tribute to an old friend.
Michael T. Gilbert
Editors Emeritus
Jerry Bails (founder) Ronn Foss, Biljo White, Mike Friedrich
Julius Schwartz Checklist . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 What the Great Editor did, and when he did it.
Production Assistant
A Tale of Two All-Stars . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 Dan Makara and Irwin Hasen on Julie as man and editor.
Eric Nolen-Weathington
Cover Artists Irwin Hasen Carmine Infantino & Jim Amash
Cover Colorists Irwin Hasen J. David Spurlock
And Special Thanks to: Neal Adams Murphy Anderson Pedro Angosto Jeff Bailey Bob Bailey Brian H. Bailie Mike W. Barr Michael Baulderstone Bill Black Jackson Bostwick Jerry K. Boyd Alan Brennert Mike Burkey Nick Cardy Bob Cherry Shaun Clancy John Cochran Dave Cockrum Ray A. Cuthbert Teresa R. Davidson Al Dellinges Joe Desris Irwin Donenfeld Shel Dorf Harlan & Susan Ellison Don Ensign Mark Evanier Shane Foley Ramona Fradon Mike Friedrich Carl Gafford José García-López Jeff Gelb Frank Giella Joe Giella Janet Gilbert Dick Giordano Mike Gold Bob Greenberger Walt Grogan Beth Gwinn Jennifer T. Hamerlinck
Ron Harris Irwin Hasen Mark & Stephanie Heike Tom Horvitz Dave Hunt Joe Kubert Stan Lee Paul Levitz Glenn MacKay Elliot S. Maggin Keith Mallow Dan Makara Dave Manak Sam Maronie Brian K. Morris Mark Muller Will Murray Mart Nodell Denny O’Neil Carlos Pacheco Joe Petrilak John G. Pierce Larry Rippee Ethan Roberts Bob Rozakis Alex Saviuk David Siegel Louis Small, Jr. Marc Sparks J. David Spurlock Richard Steinberg Marc Svensson Marc Swayze Joel Thingvall Dann Thomas Alex Toth Michael Uslan Marv Wolfman Donald Woolfolk Eddy Zeno Michael Zeno Tom Ziuko
This issue is dedicated to the memory of
Julie Schwartz, Carrie Nodell, & Lillian Drake
“IJoe Dated Julie’s Wife before He Did!” . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 Kubert tells tales about drawing for J.S. “My Dust-up with Julie”. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 13 Alex Toth on “burying the hatchet” with his one-time editor. Tribute to a Titan . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14 A legion of comics lovers—both pros and fans—remember Julius Schwartz Comic Crypt: Strange Schwartz Stories . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 31 Michael T. Gilbert and Mr. Monster examine some of Julie’s 1960s correspondence. Close Encounters of the Schwartz Kind. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 37 Bill Schelly on his four meetings with Julie. Carrie Nodell & Lillian Drake . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 41 A few words about two gracious ladies.
FCA (Fawcett Collectors of America) #97 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 43 P.C. Hamerlinck and friends on Julie Schwartz and Shazam! Julie: Part One. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Flip Us! About Our Cover: Beginning in 1941, Irwin Hasen produced some memorable work on “Green Lantern” and All-Star Comics for both DC/AA editor Shelly Mayer and his successor Julius Schwartz. In recent years, Irwin had accompanied Julie, who had become his good friend, to numerous comicons. Editor Roy Thomas asked Irwin if he would re-create his very first All-Star cover (#33, drawn in 1946), only with Julie standing in for the monstrous Solomon Grundy— and we think the result is nothing less than terrific! “All-Schwartz Comics” logo by Al Dellinges. Special Notice: This fabulous one-of-a-kind “re-creation with a difference” is for sale by Irwin for $700. Please contact A/E’s editor via fax at (803) 826-6501, by mail at the South Carolina address in the indicia below, or via e-mail at: roydann@ntinet.com. First-come, firstserved! [Art ©2004 Irwin Hasen; Justice Society of America TM & ©2004 DC Comics.] Above: Julie at the Heroes Con in Charlotte, NC, in June 2001, pursuing one of his favorite pastimes—hawking his memoir Man of Two Worlds, which he wrote with Brian Thomsen. If you haven’t yet picked up a copy—do so! Julie is watching! Photo by Bob Bailey. Alter EgoTM is published monthly by TwoMorrows, 10407 Bedfordtown Drive, Raleigh, NC 27614, USA. Phone: (919) 449-0344. Roy Thomas, Editor. John Morrow, Publisher. Alter Ego Editorial Offices: 32 Bluebird Trail, St. Matthews, SC 29135, USA. Fax: (803) 826-6501; e-mail: roydann@ntinet.com. Send subscription funds to TwoMorrows, NOT to the editorial offices. Single issues: $8 ($10 Canada, $11.00 elsewhere). Twelve-issue subscriptions: $60 US, $120 Canada, $132 elsewhere. All characters are © their respective companies. All material © their creators unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter © Roy Thomas. Alter Ego is a TM of Roy & Dann Thomas. FCA is a TM of P.C. Hamerlinck. Printed in Canada. FIRST PRINTING.
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A Testimonial for Julius Schwartz by Harlan Ellison ©1997 The Kilimanjaro Corporation [A/E EDITOR’S NOTE: Harlan Ellison will be well known to many readers of A/E as one of the premier science-fiction writers of the 20th century—not that he’s retired in the 21st! His moving remembrance of Julie Schwartz, titled “Softly; A Legend Passes” was read at the March 2004 memorial service held for Julie in New York City, and will be featured in the transcription of that event two issues from now. Harlan also located the following piece about the fabled DC editor (and his longtime good friend) that he wrote in 1997—though he’s not certain of the precise occasion—and he and his wife Susan sent it along to us, along with several of the photos which appear on this page and the next, and which are used with their permission. —Roy.] Schwartz? You want a testimonial for Schwartz? Is that what you’re asking for? A testimonial, right? Something that reinforces this “living legend” business, am I right, am I getting this right? Something that exalts, something that lauds, some wonderful words that extol, that eulogize, praise, flatter, enhance, and ennoble. Have I got it correctly, what it is you want? Well, just let me tell you…. Schwartz: When they excavated the buried ruins of the ancient Sumerian city of Uruk in 1912, there on that lower Mesopotamian plain where, 3500 years before the birth of Christ, were written the earliest words of mankind, the great Gilgamesh legend… there, there in the great Limestone Temple were unearthed the shards of an alabaster cult vase, pictographically engraved with the heroic story of Schwartz the Slayer. We’re talking Schwartz here! Tribute, testimonial? I’ll give you testimonial!
Harlan and Julie at DragonCon, Atlanta, 1998. Photo by Beth Gwinn from the Julius Schwartz Collection.
Julie Schwartz and Harlan Ellison in the latter’s Art Deco dining room, with sf author Alfred Bester’s Grandmaster Award, presented by the Science Fiction Writers of America.
Schwartz: In 1976, when they discovered the terracotta army of China’s first emperor, Qin Shi Huangdi, there in Shanxi province, eastcentral China, the most startling aspect of the unearthing of those thousands of sculpted warriors was that eleven out of thirteen statues bore the unmistakable countenance of He Who Must Kvetch, the great Schwartz! We’re talking the Schwartzmeister, can you hear me? Word! Schwartz: When they finally found the crumpled and shattered corpse of the Titanic, at a terrible depth below the North Atlantic, and they circumnavigated it for the first time with the mini-sub, they found—amazingly, astoundingly—the golden figure of Schwartz the Great Navigator still standing at the ceremonial helm, where it had been placed by the owners of the White Star line prior to the great ocean queen’s maiden voyage. Unsullied by anemone or acid wash, there stood the heroic Schwartz simulacrum, untarnished by time, noble even at the deepest dark of the cruel downbelow. You ask me about Schwartz? You want mere words to encompass the grandeur, the heroism, the incomparable singularity of wonder we are blessed to have with us? The immortal Schwartz, you want I should sum him up in one measly testimonial? Phah! Better to ask how bright shine the stars, how mournful cries the wind, how deep is the ocean, how high the sky! He is… Schwartz! Let the name ring down the halls of Forever. I say again… SHUH-WARTZ! Ask no more of me.
Julie, Susan, and Ray Bradbury at the Pacific Dining Car restaurant, circa 1990.
A Testimonial For Julius Schwartz
(Left to right facing front:) Harlan, author Dan Simmons, Julie, & unknown.
Julie and Susan Ellison—in the Ellisons’ kitchen.
One living legend bookended by two others! Harlan Ellison (center) with Stan Lee and Julie Schwartz.
The Fantastic Four (left to right): filmmaker Ray Harryhausen, Ray Bradbury, Harlan, and Julie, at the 1998 DragonCon. From the Julius Schwartz Collection.
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JULIUS SCHWARTZ Checklist [NOTE: What follows is a slight abridgement of information provided by Jerry G. Bails from his online Who’s Who of 20th-Century American Comic Books, which can be accessed online at www.nostromo.no/whoswho/. Additions and corrections are invited, either to Jerry or through A/E. If the name of a feature is not in italics, it is because that feature appeared in more comics than merely the one named after the character. Key: (w) = writer. In all other instances, Julie is assumed to be working in an editorial capacity. Much of this information was provided by Julie himself.] Name: Julius Schwartz (1915-2004) (editor, writer) Pen Names: Jules Black; nickname = Julie Education: B.S., City College of New York Biography: Man of Two Worlds: My Life in Science Fiction and Comics (Brian Thomsen, co-writer), 2000 Influences: Mort Weisinger, science-fiction 1928-45 Member: First Fandom (science-fiction) Fanzine Editor: The Time Traveler (coeditor, reputed first science-fiction fanzine), The Comet, Fantasy Magazine 1936-37 Agent/Co-Owner: Solar Sales Service 193444 (first agency to specialize in science-fiction – clients included Alfred Bester, Robert Bloch, Stanley Weinbaum, David Vern, Ray Bradbury, Edmond Hamilton, H.L. Gold, Gardner Fox, Otto Binder, Leigh Brackett, C.L. Moore, Henry Kuttner, H.P. Lovecraft, Manly Wade Wellman)
Writing: Johnny Thunder (1946); Green Lantern (story from mid-1940s inventory, published in Amazing World of DC Comics, 1974); Foley of the Fighting Fifth, mid-1950s; Wonder Women of History (plot?), 1949-54; text pieces (some under the name “Jules Black”); illustrated fillers, 1956-67 Editor (& often co-plotter) of Features for: Action Comics, All-American Comics, All-American Western, All-Flash, All-Star Comics, All-Star Western, The Atom, Batman, Batman Family, Big Town, Blue Beetle, The Brave and the Bold, Captain Action, Charlie Chan, Comic Cavalcade, Danger Trail, DC Comics Presents, Detective Comics, The Flash, Flash Comics, From beyond the Unknown, Green Lantern (1940s & 1960s), Hawkman, Hopalong Cassidy, Jimmy Wakely, The Joker, Justice League of America, Krypton Chronicles, Mystery in Space, Phantom Stranger, Rex the Wonder Dog, science-fiction graphic novel series (1985-87), Sensation Comics, Shazam!, Showcase, The Spectre, Strange Adventures, Strange Sports Stories, Superboy, Superman, Superman Family, Superman vs. Mohammed Ali (special), Super Friends, Supergirl, Teen Titans, Western Comics, Wonder Woman, World’s Finest Comics
Honors (partial): comics fandom’s Alley (best Julie and friend in the DC offices. Photo from editor) 1962; Academy of Comic Book Arts the Julius Schwartz Collection. [Superman (ACBA) Shazam (4 times), 1970-72; ACBA TM & ©2004 DC Comics.] Award for Superior Achievement, 1972; Inkpot Award (San Diego Comic-Con), 1981; Eagle Award (England), 3 times; Writing Appearing in Books: Alter Ego: The Best of the Legendary Forry Award (42nd World Science Fiction Con), 1984; Guest of Honor, Comics Fanzine (preface, 1997); The Greatest Team-up Stories Ever Chicago Comicon, 1984; Jules Verne Award for Lifetime Achievement Told (foreword, 1990), et al. (Sky Con #4), 1984; First Fandom Hall of Fame (science-fiction); Atlanta Fantasy Fair Award, 1988; Big Heart Award (science-fiction), Books Reprinting Comics Edited by Julius Schwartz (An 1991; Diamond Lifetime Fandom Award, 1991; Super Guest, Windy Incomplete List): Adam Strange Archives, Vol. 1; All Star Comics Con (Chicago), 1992; Harvey Award—the Jack Kirby Hall of Fame, Archives, Vol. 5-10; The Atom Archives, Vol. 1-2; Batman from the 1996; Eisner Award—Hall of Fame, 1997 30’s to the 70’s; Black Canary Archives, Vol. 1; Dynamic Duo Archives, Vol. 1; Flash Archives, Vol. 1-3; Golden Age Flash Archives, COMIC BOOKS (MAINSTREAM US PUBLISHERS) Vol. 1, Golden Age Green Lantern Archives, Vol. 1-2; The Greatest Staff: DC (editor) 1945-85; editor emeritus/consultant 1985-2004 Batman Stories Ever Told; The Greatest Flash Stories Ever Told; The Greatest Golden Age Stories Ever Told; The Greatest Joker Stories Ever Told; The Monthly! The Original First-Person History– Greatest 1950s Stories Ever Told; The Greatest Superman Stories Ever Told; The published by Robin Snyder Greatest Team-up Stories Ever Told; Green Lantern Archives, Vol. 1-4; The Green Lantern/Green Arrow Collection; Hawkman Archives, Vol. 1; Justice League of America Archives, Vol. 1-8; Mysteries in Space; Shazam! from the 40’s to the 70’s; Superman from the 30’s to the 70s, et al.
Write to: Robin Snyder, 2284 Yew St. Rd. #B6, Bellingham, WA 98229-8899
P.S.: Watch this space for big news about the Alter Ego comic book, first published in 1986! ’Nuff said! [Art ©2004 Ron Harris; Alter Ego is a TM of Roy & Dann Thomas.]
A Tale of Two All-Stars
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Conversations with Julius Schwartz and Irwin Hasen by Dan Makara (with Irwin Hasen) (Left to right:) Dan Makara talks with Carmine Infantino, Irwin Hasen, and Julie Schwartz at his studio—juxtaposed with a Hasen re-creation of an early1940s cover that never was: Wildcat Comics #1. Dan prevailed upon Irwin to draw and color this great piece. Nice, huh? Oh, and you can see other photos of Irwin, Julie, and Carmine elsewhere in this issue. [Art ©2004 Irwin Hasen; Wildcat TM & ©2004 DC Comics.]
DAN MAKARA One day I got a call from my pal Irwin Hasen: “Come on into the city on Saturday. Julie Schwartz will be here. Like to meet him?” Of course, I went with bells on. I’d grown up reading the books Julie had edited in the ’60s… The Flash, Batman, Strange Adventures. In fact, it was one of Julie’s Justice League issues, which reprinted the cover to All-Star Comics #33, that introduced me to the Comic Book Art of Irwin Hasen. I had enjoyed Irwin’s work on Dondi since I was a little kid, but had no idea that Irwin had worked for DC and had done the best of the All-Star covers. It’s always an interesting experience to visit Irwin in New York. A friend for going on seven years now, Irwin lives in a great old brownstone not far from the Metropolitan Museum of Art. His apartment is a treasure trove for the eyes. Walking in, you are greeted by a double portrait that Irwin is working on of Mayor Bloomberg with Dondi. Bloomberg, a neighbor, frequents the same deli as Irwin. Photographs and artwork cover the walls, along with Inkpot Awards for his syndicated work. There are pictures of Irwin with Rube Goldberg... Irwin with various women... Irwin with Carl Sandburg... Irwin with various women.... In one corner there’s a large upright piano and a set of bongos. His drawing board is in another corner, by an immense window. Nearby hangs his masterpiece, which he calls “The Autumn Leaves.” The lower right corner of that picture sports a self-portrait dreamily gazing toward heaven. Floating all about as if they were blown by a gentle breeze are full-figure portraits of all the women Irwin has known… nude. On the floor is a life-size stuffed Russian wolfhound with a martini. Behind the couch is a life-size stuffed tiger, its head poised above a pile of chicken bones. Seated upon the couch was Julius Schwartz. “How do you know who I am?” he asked. “Well, I actually recognized you from a Strange Adventures story,” I replied. “Have you read my book?” “Ummm, I’m afraid I didn’t know you’d written one.”
He reached into a valise… pulled out a paperback with his picture on the cover. “Here ya go… it’s fourteen dollars.” Fumbling for my wallet: “All I’ve got is a ten.” “Ya don’t buy the book, I can’t talk to ya.” “I promise I’ll buy the book, but I already know all about you. You’re the guy that rescued comic books!” That comment broke the ice. We spoke about Strange Adventures and science-fiction. Julius was a huge fan of Amazing Stories and recounted the genius of sf pulp editor Hugo Gernsback. When Julie excused himself and stepped into the other room for a moment, Irwin leaned forward and whispered, “Ask him about Ray Bradbury.”
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Dan Makara with Irwin Hasen
Upon my doing so, we were treated to a firsthand account of the birth of American science-fiction and comic books.
86 years young this July: breakfast at 8:00… work non-stop till noon… short lunch… back to work till 6:00… light supper… party till 10:00…
But I was also visiting Irwin on business. For the past year, I’d been suggesting that he do a large-scale recreation of the cover of All-Star Comics #35 from 1947, a book on which Julius Schwartz had been editor. That cover shows the villain Degaton standing amid a jumble of trains, airplanes, cars, a tank, a Roman charioteer, all dropping through time, swirling down the funnel of a giant hourglass, the Justice Society of America looking on in wonder. It would be ideal as a large-size recreation.
“One piece of advice my father gave me… drink good Scotch!” he’d say. Next morning I’d be making coffee at 7:30. My wife would say, “I don’t think Irwin will be getting up too early this morning.” Five minutes to 8:00, there he is: “Let’s go, kid!” Ten of the re-creations were completed in 2003. Ten more were finished in March 2004… and that was it! Irwin has said this will be the final time he re-creates that cover. Irwin then got the good news that Steve Geppi, renowned collector and owner of Diamond Galleries, was interested in handling the sales of these! (His Diamond Gallery International will be offering the recreation in the near future!)
The question was how to do a large-scale project with richness of detail and have it turn out minimally cost-effective. I had a background in doing multiple re-creations. For two years I had run the printmaking We then received the news that facility at the Old Lyme Artworks in Julie Schwartz had passed away. I Connecticut. We produced stone couldn’t help feeling that this lithographs and silkscreen prints for particular cover, with its Amazing regional artists. Our biggest client had Stories-type illustration and time been the White House, for whom we Irwin’s great splash page for All-American Comics #85 (May 1947), travel theme, reflected a lot of Julie’s produced a limited-edition portrait of repro’d from a photocopy of the original art, courtesy of Jerry G. Bails. interests. So, on the day that Irwin Ronald Reagan dressed in buckskins. “Crusher” Crock, of course, became The Sportsmaster in his second arrived in Connecticut to sign the reI suggested that multiples were the appearance. He does kinda resemble Per Degaton, doesn’t he? Both creations, I asked him what his way to go, and offered Irwin the use baddies even wound up with red hair! [©2004 DC Comics.] memories were regarding how this of my Connecticut studio. Irwin’s cover came about. Here’s what he had to say: black linework I would reproduce in oil-based ink. Irwin would then need to paint one color at a time on each individual sheet. This was the manner in which Currier & Ives had worked, a type of production method.
IRWIN HASEN
We would only do a small number of them, but, given the complexity of the design, it would be a tremendous amount of work on Irwin’s part. A prototype had been completed, and we were curious to get Julius to look at it. “Wow… very nice… looks OK!… a lotta work… do collectors buy this sorta thing? They call it the Golden Age… we were kids just trying to make a buck, that’s all!” My thoughts, however, turned to the incinerator at 480 Lexington Ave., cremating all those lovely DC covers… Burnley, Fred Ray, Kane, Robinson, Shuster, and Hasen… all up in smoke. A re-creation by the original artist is the closest we can get to that original art. Later, I remarked to Irwin that, while pleasant enough, Julie’s reaction seemed a tad unenthusiastic. “Nah, that’s Julie’s way. He’s a straight-ahead guy, not often excitable. The only time in our working relationship I ever got a rise out of him was when I’d bring in interior artwork. I would utilize silhouettes of the main characters to help tell the story. Doiby Dickles or The Green Lantern [or, as Irwin says, “the Green Lant’n”] were easily recognizable in silhouette. Viewing these, Julie would eyeball me for a moment, then explode, ‘Dammit, Hasen, you’re trying to cheat us with these damn silhouettes!’” Now I’d like to describe Irwin’s work regimen. Keep in mind he’ll be
It was late 1946 or early 1947. I got this hurry-up call from my new editor, Julius Schwartz. “Get down here quick! We need a cover concept for the next issue of All-Star Comics.” Schwartz was fresh from the pulps and was working under Shelly Mayer on a number of DC titles. I quickly made a few thumbnail sketches of the JSA vs. the time villain which Julie had described, making revisions as I rode the Lexington Avenue subway down to 42nd Street. Heading for the office, I remember passing by 420 Lexington and thinking how it had only been five years earlier that I had been walking around in my boxers for Uncle Sam at this spot, the site of the Army Induction Center. The war was over, I had done The Goldbergs for the New York Post Syndicate. When that ended, I was now back at work for DC Comics. It had been All-American Comics before the war. Shelly Mayer (the boy genius) was still there as editor-in-chief, but preparing to relinquish that spot to return to cartooning, his real love. Reaching 480 Lexington, I took the elevator to the 7th floor. The pretty red-haired secretary named Jean, who was later to marry Schwartz, nodded me in. The 7th floor was typically a-buzz with activity. The floor was a hive of glass cubicles. Groups of coatless men, all busy at their desks. There was a revolving stream of artists picking up assignments or delivering them. Julie was sitting in his cubicle, his desk positioned opposite that of writer/editor Bob Kanigher. The two never got along and rarely spoke
A Tale of Two All-Stars
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A montage of the cast and locale of Irwin’s yarn. (Left to right:): Julie with DC receptionist (and his future wife) Jean Ordwein, 1946—a longshot allegedly taken at the DC offices on Sept. 10, 1945—Alex Toth, in a photo from the 1960s or ’70s—editor Sheldon Mayer, 1945—and Joe Kubert (left) & Irwin clowning around on a California beach, circa 1947. The latter trio of shots all appeared in The Amazing World of DC Comics #5 (March 1975); the first two are from the Julius Schwartz Collection.
to one another. Noticing my arrival, Schwartz gestured for me to follow him into Sheldon Mayer’s office. It was about that time that I remember a skinny tow-headed kid in knickers trying to get work: “Mr. Schwartz, my name is Alex Toth. Can I show you…?” “Go into my office and wait!” Schwartz would brusquely reply. I sat down with Julius in Mayer’s office. Shelly’s one wall was typically covered with the original cover artwork for comic books about to go to press. Mayer sat smoking his pipe, looked at my roughs, looked at Julie, looked at me. “This is crap! I’ve told you many times, the newsstands are crowded! How are we supposed to sell books with these dead fish!?!” Mayer picked up my art and threw it into the air, hitting the ceiling with it. The pages fluttered all about his office. Julie slinked out, leaving me to deal with the Mad Boy Genius. Calming down, Shelly lit his pipe, arched his eyebrows, and explained again to me the mechanics of a successful cover—“Create a situation that grabs hold of the viewer. Remember that! Repeat after me…!” Then, grabbing his Tsquare, he leapt atop his desk. “En garde! Now go to talk to Julie and get this worked out!”
Der Bingle, but lately I had taken Julie Schwartz’s suggestion to listen to jazz. I was now listening to Louis Armstrong, Ella, Eddie Condon, “The Muskrat Ramble”… and then shows like Inner Sanctum and The FirstNighter. I worked non-stop. A giant hourglass took shape, filled with transportation vehicles of different time periods. I grouped the Justice society carefully about the hourglass… Degaton, like a mad scientist within the hourglass, leering at the vehicles swirling about him. I completed the cover that Sunday, and always felt that it was one of my better ones. Monday it was time to deliver it! Stepping off the elevator, I noticed Joe Kubert buzzing about that cute red-headed secretary’s desk, as many of the other guys did. I’d made the mistake of arriving at the office approaching noon hour. This I knew meant disaster if I were to approach Julie now. “Never disturb me at lunch hour, Hasen!” That was Julie’s Law. The boss wanted to savor his ritual black bean soup in private.
So Julie then calmly put his two cents in. I was to attempt something with more of a pulp feel, something dramatic, and… “Have this in on Monday!” It was a long elevator ride down to street level. My work was “crap.” I was “crap,” and I had to listen to Shelly’s same old redundant speech all over again. Walking out on Lexington, there was that kid, Toth. “Mr. Hasen, I’m a big fan of yours. I live uptown. My mother makes the best Hungarian goulash. Would you like to come by for dinner?” Reluctantly, I accepted his offer, and as it turns out, I was glad that I did. His mother was a wonderful cook. That kid Alex turned out to be a darned good cartoonist!!! He and I have been pen pals these past sixty years!
I also recall seeing Carmine Infantino for the first time in the office at this period. He may have been there that day, trying to break into DC. Jean the secretary now motioned for me to go in. Lunch hour had ended. Julie, who was now standing, had a habit of biting his lower lip on the occasion of escorting me to Shelly Mayer’s office. Zero Hour had arrived. Mayer, his head lowered, perused my cover. Nodding his head… he liked it. Sensing success, I picked up Mayer’s T-square. I now positioned myself at his desk and yelled, “En garde!” Julie shook his head smiling and went back to his desk.
Riding the subway home, I began to agonize over that cover idea for All-Star. All I could see was my sketches thrown about and cascading down from the ceiling like so much sand in an hourglass… Sand in an hourglass! The next morning I began work in earnest. I usually worked with the radio on… I’d been a big fan of crooners like
So I passed some time with Joe Kubert. Joe was sixteen or so years old, and was doing the “Hawkman” strip. He had recently purchased a new Chrysler with wood paneling on the sides (Joe always had good taste). We were to drive cross-country that summer to attend a wedding in Hollywood, the daughter of one of the Three Stooges.
Irwin’s re-creation of his cover for All-Star Comics #35 (JuneJuly 1947). This cover is a favorite of A/E’s editor, as well; in fact, it’s the first one (of five) that Roy had Irwin re-create for him back in the late 1980s—and Irwin says it’s the first re-creation he ever did. Don’t miss your chance to own Irwin’s newest version! [Art ©2004 Irwin Hasen; JSA TM & ©2004 DC Comics.]
Julie was a legend of the Golden Age, and an innovator of the Silver Age… but I’ll always remember Julie wearing his Superman shirt aboard our flights to the San Diego conventions. Approaching ninety, Julie was ageless.
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“I Dated Julie’s Wife Before He Did!” JOE KUBERT Tells Tales about Drawing for Julie Schwartz
[INTERVIEWER’S NOTE: What else is there to say about Joe Kubert? He’s been working in the comic book field since 1942…is most closely associated at DC with both the Golden and Silver Age Hawkmen and the war titles… and he keeps getting better. —Roy.]
Interview Conducted & Transcribed by Roy Thomas
ROY THOMAS: When Julie started work for DC/AA in December 1944—he even knew the exact date—you’d only recently started working there yourself. Apparently your first work for AA [All-American] editor Shelly Mayer was the “Dr. Fate” chapter in All-Star #21, which was cover-dated Summer 1944. That would’ve come out in the spring, so it must’ve been prepared at least during the winter—around the time Julie came to work for Mayer, too. JOE KUBERT: It must have been. Of course, I was already working for a couple of other companies. I was just a teenager at the time, still going to high school. I’ve always been amazed that Shelly, as the editorin-chief of All-American, had enough faith in me to let me pencil that “Dr. Fate,” and before long, “Hawkman.” At that time I met Julie in passing, but I don’t really recall when or how. You know, the only time artists would meet the editors would be when we came up to the office to turn in work. RT: The day he was hired, Julie admitted to Shelly that he didn’t know anything about artwork—he was strictly a literary type, having been a science-fiction reader and agent. Shelly told him that was okay, because he [Shelly] would do be the one dealing with the artists. So Julie was essentially a story editor from 1944 until Shelly quit editing in 1948 to go back to writing and drawing. Is that when you began to work more closely with Julie? KUBERT: Yes. Before that, we might have said hello, but that was about it. Being a kid, I didn’t socialize with the older guys, like the editor. RT: Julie, after all, was an old man in his late twenties when you came to work at AA/DC! KUBERT: Yeah, and he always kidded me because I dated his wife before he did. I just went out with her once, and I guess that was enough for her. She was older than I was, so she went to an older guy! [laughs] You know, Kanigher was an editor there, too, in the mid-’40s, at the same time as Julie.
(Top left:) Joe Kubert being his usual gracious self with a fan at 2000 comiccon in White Plains, NY—juxtaposed with two decades of Hawkman. Photo courtesy of Joe Petrilka. (Above:) A Golden Age page from Flash Comics #72 (June 1946), repro’d from photocopies of the original art, courtesy of Joel Thingvall. Julie was Shelly Mayer’s story editor for AA/DC by this time, but rarely interfaced with artists. (Left center:) A Silver Age Hawkman head done by Joe for his cartooning school. [Page ©2004 DC Comics; sketch ©2004 Joe Kubert; Hawkman TM & ©2004 DC Comics.]
“I Dated Julie’s Wife Before He Did!” RT: Julie told me he’s the one who recommended to Shelly Mayer that he hired Bob Kanigher as an editor to replace Ted Udall when he left in 1946. But Julie said that was one of the things I couldn’t print while he was alive, because he said Kanigher wouldn’t want to be reminded of that fact and would probably deny it. Even after Kanigher passed away a couple of years ago, Julie said Kanigher’s ghost would come back to haunt him if he told that story. [laughs] By the way, do you remember Ted Udall? His real name, apparently, was Wes Ingals. Did you know him by that name? KUBERT: No, I only knew him as Ted Udall. But I do remember him.
on someone else, some editor, to look after you and make sure you keep busy and employed. You’ve got to do that for yourself. RT: Julie, though, always had a reputation for being the guy who had an artist’s or writer’s check waiting for him when he finished a job.
Jean Ordwein, in a photo reportedly taken “9/46” —probably on the same day as those on p. 18 on our flip side. From the Julius Schwartz Collection.
RT: After Shelly Mayer left in 1948, Whitney Ellsworth became technically the editor of all the old AA books, since he was editor of the whole DC line. But since he was a hands-off editor, that must be when you started dealing more closely with Julie. KUBERT: Yes. I did “Hawkman,” and some “Flash.” RT: After his statement to Mayer that he didn’t know anything about artwork—did he have more to say about it after he became editor? KUBERT: Yes. Julie was a good editor. He wasn’t the kind of editor who could tell you what muscle did what, but I remember there was a time for a year or so, probably back during the late ’40s, that I was drawing the heads too big. You know how it is with artists and writers— they get so close to their own work they can’t always see their mistakes. He kept on me about that, until I adjusted the way I drew heads. He really improved me in that way, and kept me on my toes.
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KUBERT: Yeah, he was great that way. The check was always there, and usually the next assignment. And if he wasn’t going to have a new assignment for me when I turned in the one I was working on, he’d let me know way in advance so I could make plans. I don’t know if it was just to keep your loyalty, or because it was just his personality, but he was very organized, very methodical.
RT: Sy Barry says Julie occasionally chided him about working for other companies, since their deadlines might interfere with his. [NOTE: See Alter Ego #37.] KUBERT: He never said anything like that to me. I didn’t always make every deadline, but he knew I was giving his work top priority. I tried to get everything in on time. I just had to protect myself by having other accounts, and besides, that kept life interesting. RT: I guess some of the greatest volume of work you did for Julie in a short period was the two “Hawkman” tryouts in The Brave and the Bold in the early 1960s. Were you surprised he came to you rather than to another artist for “Hawkman”? KUBERT: No, because we’d already worked together a lot. And “Hawkman” was something that was interesting to me, so I was glad to do it. RT: I’ve wondered this for years: by the time “Hawkman” finally got a regular series in Mystery in Space after the second Brave &Bold tryout, you were too busy doing war stories and the like to be the artist. But what if Hawkman had become a regular book a bit earlier? What if, instead of drawing B&B #42-44 as a second try-out, you’d have been drawing Hawkman #1-3—with #4 definitely scheduled for two months later, with no interruption in your schedule? Do you think it’s more likely you’d have remained as Hawkman artist?
Julie was a reader, not an artist— and of course most readers of comic books aren’t artists, so what Julie contributed was to make sure that the story was clear. Scripts edited by Julie had a lot more rewriting on them than many editors’ scripts, and it was always aimed at making the story clear. I learned a lot from him about writing. RT: Besides “Hawkman,” and especially after Flash Comics’ demise by the start of 1949, you drew a number of westerns for Julie. Since Julie’s credited with writing at least one “Foley of the Fighting Fifth,” you may even have drawn one of the only three or so scripts Julie ever wrote. KUBERT: Possibly so. Yes, I did “Foley” and other westerns. Of course, I always kept up my accounts at other companies, too, because I learned early that you can’t depend
Julie always said that he actually scripted one—and probably only one—“Foley of the Fighting Fifth” story. Is this it? Well, even if it isn’t, Julie edited and probably did some rewriting on this splash from All-American Western #106 (Feb.-March 1949). Far as we know, Julie never revealed why he wrote one “Foley,” one “Green Lantern,” and one “Johnny Thunder.” Did he just want to try his hand at scripting —or (hard as it may be to believe) did some writer miss a deadline? Thanks to Al Dellinges. [©2004 DC Comics.]
KUBERT: I don’t know. I might have. It would all have depended on my schedule at the time. But maybe then I’d have gotten busy doing Hawkman every two months, and I might not have been available for as much war work. It’s hard to say. You know, the reason I started doing all that work for Bob
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Joe Kubert
Carmine Infantino, Joe Kubert, and Julie Schwartz together again at the former’s 75th-birthday party at the 2000 con in White Plains, NY, in a photo courtesy of Joe Petrilak. (Left:) Together again for the first—and last—time! For reasons unknown, Julie had Joe pencil and Murphy Anderson ink this single tale of the Winged Wonder in The Atom and Hawkman #41 (Feb.-March 1969). Weird experiment, but the result looks good! But then—why wouldn’t it? Thanks to Bob Bailey (or was it Bob Cherry?). [©2004 DC Comics.]
www. kubertsworld. com
Kanigher on the war comics wasn’t really because I loved war comics. It’s just that, back at the time after the Senate hearings and all about comics, I was a bit unsure about getting plenty of work in comics. I went up to DC, and for some reason, as I recall it, the first person I ran into was Kanigher, who offered me a lot of work. I may have even seen Julie that same day, but for some reason I started doing much of my work for Kanigher. RT: DC editors had a reputation for being territorial. Did either Julie or Kanigher ever give you trouble about working for the other one? KUBERT: No, I never had anything like that. RT: Julie once teamed up you and Murphy Anderson on “Hawkman” for a story—you penciling and Murphy inking. Do you remember why? KUBERT: No. I do remember I had to pencil that story a bit tighter than I usually pencil stories when I’m going to ink them. I usually like to ink my own pencils. Not that others couldn’t do a good job on them—in Murphy’s case, a splendid job—but just because I like it to be my art, from start to finish. RT: In later years, most of what you did for Julie was covers. We sell:
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KUBERT: Yes, since I was so busy with “Sgt. Rock” and the war stories. I did covers for just about every editor up at DC—except Mort Weisinger on Superman. I think I did maybe one cover for Mort Weisinger. Later I did a lot of Justice League covers for Julie, and some Batman—though few if any “Batman” stories. It just didn’t work out that way. RT: Any closing thoughts about Julie? KUBERT: Just that, though I’ve had a lot of acquaintances and colleagues in the comic book industry, I haven’t that many in the field who were real friends. Julie was a friend. RT: Even though you stole his girlfriend? [laughs]
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KUBERT: [laughs] I just went out with her once! She had a narrow escape!
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“My Dust-Up With Julie” Classic Artist ALEX TOTH on “Burying the Hatchet” on an Old Disagreement with J. Schwartz
[Art ©2004 Alex Toth.]
[EDITOR’S NOTE: For years, different versions of why and how Alex Toth quit drawing for DC circa 1952, because of a dispute with editor Julius Schwartz. In his memoir Man of Two Worlds, Julie recounted his own version, without casting any aspersions on an artist he admired, and recounted how they made up at a comic-con years later. We invited Alex to air his own tale, after so long, but he preferred, understandably, to accentuate the positive. We applaud him for it. —Roy.]
Whatever happened between Alex and Julie—and the artist has always maintained a discreet silence on the subject—‘twas no “April Fool” joke. These panels from the “Green Lantern” story in Comic Cavalcade #27 (June-July 1948) were drawn by Alex not long before Julie became full editor on Shelly Mayer’s return to full-time cartooning. Oh, and you’ll find a photo of Alex Toth on p.7. [©2004 DC Comics.]
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Tributes to a Titan Comics Lovers—Pro and Fan—Remember Julius Schwartz (Left:) A 1984 caricature of J.S. by cartoonist and DC staffer Dave Manak. (Right:) Gil Kane’s cover for an issue of From Beyond, as repro’d from the original art in The Amazing World of DC Comics #3 (Nov. 1974), the “Special Julius Schwartz Issue.” Was Gil’s striking cover ever used on an actual comic? [Art ©2004 Dave Manak.]
after everyone who might have written his own “Julie story”—this is, after all, a magazine, not an entire encyclopedia. But we put out the call, and these folks responded here. Others have had their say elsewhere, or prefer to contemplate Julie’s passing in silence. But here is what a few noteworthy people had to say—in alphabetical order. Most of them need no introduction to readers of Alter Ego—but I’ve added a few words before each commentary, just the same. —Roy.] [A/E EDITOR’S NOTE: Many of those who were Julie’s contemporaries, collaborators, and colleagues are gone now, having preceded him into the “Beyond,” to use part of the title of his last science-fiction comic: Gil Kane, Mike Sekowsky, Gardner Fox, John Broome, Frank Giacoia, Robert Kanigher, et al. But, over his 40plus years as a day-by-day editor, and in special projects since his 1984 retirement, Julius Schwartz left behind memories in the minds of everyone who came into contact with him. We didn’t go seeking
JERRY G. BAILS [Jerry Bails is the founder of Alter Ego (in 1961) and of various other traditions of comics fandom. This tribute, written while the news of Julie’s passing was still fresh, originally appeared on Jerry’s website, and was also quoted liberally in The Comics Journal.] I owe Julie Schwartz more than I can say. I wrote him my first fan letter in 1946 (re All-Star Comics #27), which I always felt influenced his decision to run the famous “Plight of a Nation” story in Justice League of America about juvenile delinquency. I peppered Julie with letters throughout the 1950s for the revivals of costumed characters, especially the Justice Society. I visited him and Gardner Fox in early 1961, and he was an exceedingly generous host. Long before he began giving original art for letters-to-theeditor, he was sending me the art for whole stories, scripts, silver proofs, and color proofs. He gave me advance news for the very first issue of On the Drawing Board (later known as The Comic Reader).
(Above & center:) Jerry Bails at the 1997 Fandom Reunion Luncheon in Chicago—plus the covers of two DC comics edited by Julius Schwartz: All-Star Comics #49 (Oct.-Nov. 1949) and Justice League of America #21 (Aug. 1963). Until recently, Jerry owned the original art to both covers. Art by Arthur Peddy & Bernard Sachs, and officially by Mike Sekowsky & Murphy Anderson, respectively—though Jerry’s always sworn he believes Murphy drew the latter one alone! [Covers ©2004 DC Comics.]
He honored me by including a composite character named Jerry Thomas in a JLA story, “The Cavern of Deadly Spheres.” While Roy and I had sent in lots of story and character ideas, we had nothing to do with the “Cavern” plot. Julie and Gardner dreamed that one up in one of their frequent plot conferences. Julie was the friendliest pro I ever met. Whenever he’d spot me at a convention, he’d hustle over to greet me as if I were the honoree. He always made me feel special. I think he did that
Tributes to a Titan quite naturally for many young people he brought into the world of comics. I was always amazed at how well he could get along with most everyone. He never had a bad word to say about anyone—even his lifelong friend Mort Weisinger. He shared office space with Bob Kanigher, who had an annoying habit of denigrating Julie’s talents One legend contemplates another: JS before as an editor, while failing a poster utilizing the Infantino/Anderson to note how many times “Flash of Two Worlds” cover from The Flash Julie’s reliable #123. From the Julius Schwartz Collection. management skills saved [Flash TM & ©2004 DC Comics.] the day for both of them. Julie kept careful records, and I never heard a tale of any freelancer who wasn’t treated fairly and promptly at Julie’s hands. I’ve heard a great many stories from his protégés praising him for the experience he gladly shared with newcomers. Julie was not a writer, per se, but an idea man. He loved plot twists, and paid scant attention to characterization. I saw examples of the scripts he sent me wherein he would rob one character (say, Wonder Woman) of a monologue and assign the same words to, say, Batman. This was especially true during the Batman TV craze. The characters were always interchangeable to Julie. It was the plot that counted, and he was as excited about plots as any fanboy. The episode in which he gave Wonder Woman’s speech to Batman prompted me to suggest to Julie that he should use this body-changing power as a gimmick in one of his JLA stories— which he promptly did. If I remember correctly, J’onn J’onzz wound up in Wonder Woman’s body. In a slightly later period at DC, that would have prompted some remark and possible embarrassment on J’onn’s part, but there was none of that at DC at that time. Marvel’s soap-opera interplay of characters was not a part of Julie’s world. He grew up with science-fiction. He was from a different era, when boys were boys and dreamed of outer space, while girls focused on human relationships. Julie was content with treating romance as something separated by a Zeta beam. Julie was quite proud when he was awarded the opportunity to take over Batman and do a makeover. Again, his natural
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tendency was to rely on plot twists, and he immediately turned Batman back into a detective in the pulp tradition. Unfortunately, the early success of the Batman TV show put something of a crimp in that approach, as the comics attempted to ape the campish TV show. It was something of a relief for all when the craze ended and the Neal Adams version of a gritty and grim night-stalker took hold. Julie’s final step up at DC was to assume the editorship of Superman himself. Julie made a faltering attempt to alter the basic storyline and reduce Superman’s powers, but this was at a stage before it was acceptable to all concerned to tamper in any fundamental way with major icons. That came later, but I suspect that Julie’s early efforts paved the way. He was good at listening to readers, and loved ideas. He knew that fresh ideas were needed, and he was willing to try them. One of his crowning ideas was to rock the DC Universe for decades. He introduced multiple Earths and made them a regular summer multiple-issue fantasy. After a lot of dares and badgering from me—I told him he couldn’t do it—he finally reintroduced the Justice Society, and their once-a-year crossovers in Justice League spanned the entire youth of many Silver Age readers. The fascination with Golden Age characters—some of whom Julie himself had never known originally— spawned a world that is still spinning in orbit by writers and artists too young to have experienced the Golden Age themselves. If truth be told, the Golden Age was made Golden during the Silver Age by a gentleman of great affection for all fans—the master of many dimensions, the one and only Julie Schwartz—my friend. There will always be a special place in my heart for this All-Star.
MIKE W. BARR [Mike Barr has written comics since 1973, mostly for DC, as well as a Star Trek novel. He was the guy behind DC’s original Outsiders and its first limited series, Camelot 3000. He says he’s told that the following anecdote was related by Julie in his memoir, but thought A/E’s readers might enjoy hearing it from his point of view.] Julie got a little full of himself in later years, but he could still take a joke. For instance, once of his favorite bits was, while giving a tour of the DC offices to visiting friends, to relate stories of his early career as a science-fiction agent, culminating with the payoff that he had discovered one of the most famous science-fiction writers of all time—Ray Bradbury, of course. But because Julie was too >ahem< modest to announce the name of his discovery himself, he would lead up to the revelation, then turn to whatever staffer was nearby, and have that unsuspecting soul tell the visitors. I saw him do this several times. (Above:) Two luminaries who scripted stories for Julie Schwartz, two decades apart: Mike Barr (on left) with the late great John Broome at the 1998 San Diego ComicCon. Both men wrote “Elongated Man” tales, too—with John being Ralph Dibny’s co-creator in The Flash #112 (April-May 1960). The multi-autographed Carmine Infantino/Joe Giella-drawn page at left, from the Broomescripted, Julie-edited Elongated Man appearance in Flash #138 (Aug. 1963), is repro’d from photocopies of the original art, courtesy of Frank Giella. Photo by Maureen McTeague. [Flash page ©2004 DC Comics.]
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Comics Lovers––Pro and Fan––Remember Julius Schwartz
So one day in the early to middle ’80s, it was my turn. I was doing some photocopying in the DC offices at 666 Fifth Avenue (I believe) while Julie brought some friends through, giving them the nickel tour while simultaneously telling them of his brilliant career. He finished with—“and I also discovered one of the most famous science-fiction writers in the world. Mike, tell them who I discovered.” Without missing a beat, I replied: “Jules Verne.” His friends were already howling, but Julie had the last laugh. He nodded and began: “That’s right, Jules Ver—” Then he stopped, realizing Alan Brennert, with two pages from perhaps the most memorable of his too-rare comics stories, “The Autobiography what I had said, while of Bruce Wayne,” from The Brave and the Bold #197 (April 1983)—as Batman gets by with a little help from his friends. executing the most Repro’d from photocopies of the original Joe Staton/George Freeman art, courtesy of Brian H. Bailie. Oh, and Alan says he perfect double-take was promoting the TV show Moloka’i when the photo was taken—hence the Hawaiian shirt! [Comic art ©2004 DC Comics.] ever you’ve seen. “No!” he said, his the world on which the Golden Age heroes of the Justice borough of origin betraying itself in his accent Society of America lived... and aged. Yes, unlike their as he shouted over his friends’ laughter, “not counterparts in the JLA, the JSAers grew older, got Jooles Voin!” married, had children... in short, had “real” lives that stood in sharp contrast to the carefully maintained stasis But he was laughing, too. of Superman or Batman’s continuities. From JLA #21: “There are a few gray hairs showing—and their faces are lined with the passage of time—but their mighty powers are only slightly dimmed...” [Alan Brenner is a television writer who has scripted a few, and memorable, comic book Anyone who has ever read one of my comic book stories in his day.] stories can attest to the impact that line had on me as a hatchling writer. As a matter of fact, that line pretty much Somewhere deep in the stacks of Lucien’s is every comic book story I’ve ever written! library in The Dreaming, in that section reserved for Stories That Were Never Written, subsection Comic Books Only a Glimmer in Someone’s The first letter of comment I had published in a DC comic was also Eye, is a 22-page “Superman” story I never wrote for Julius Schwartz. in JLA: issue #75. (The one with Black Canary’s fishnet stockings prominently displayed on the cover. Yeah, you remember it.) At the time Like many a Silver Age comics fan, I was weaned on Julie Schwartz’s it was the biggest thrill of my young life. I went on to publish quite a comic books. Whether it was Flash, Green Lantern, or Mystery in few LoCs in Julie’s books, and on one occasion he even took me to task Space—whether the writer was John Broome or Gardner Fox—a for completely missing the point of a Flash story which I had, well, Schwartz-edited story balanced the most baroque plots on a fulcrum of completely missed the point of. (Not every teenager has his youthful scientific plausibility, in the process often enlightening us with some obtuseness so immortalized in print.) basic scientific truism. (I daresay I was not the only eight-year-old who believed it was really important to know that a piece of straw, propelled It wasn’t until the early 1980s that I finally met Julie in person, at one by hurricane-force winds, could penetrate a block of wood.) of Mark Evanier’s post-San Diego Comi-Con parties. I’d begun writing the occasional comic book story, and Julie invited me to write one for My absolute favorite Schwartz book was Justice League of America, him. And there was a “Superman” story I’d always wanted to see.… to which my Aunt Eleanor had given me a subscription (copies were actually mailed out folded in half lengthwise, if such things can be In “The Sweetheart Superman Forgot” (Superman #165), our hero imagined today). It was this book (and The Flash) which would loses both his memory and his super-powers to red kryptonite, and introduce me to the concept of parallel worlds, specifically “Earth-Two,” winds up working as a ranch hand as “Jim White.” There he falls in love
ALAN BRENNERT
Tributes to a Titan with the rancher’s daughter, Sally. As was usual with Superman’s romances back then, it did not end well; nor did the sequel, four issues later. But what always impressed me was that here was the only woman who truly loved Superman for who he was, without the costume—essentially, loved Clark, albeit under another name. I wondered what might happen if Sally were to travel to Metropolis for some reason, happen to see one of Clark Kent’s newscasts, and realize that here was the man she once loved—still loved. What would Clark do? Well, he still can’t marry her, because he’s afraid his enemies will find out she’s his wife, right? And besides, he does love Lois Lane. So Supes does what he always did back then—tries to trick her, convince her he’s not Jim White, and when that fails he concocts some other elaborate dodge— Only to find... that he can’t do it. Not to her. So what does he do? He tells her the truth. He tells her, shows her, who he really is, and why he can’t marry her. She’s the only woman who’s ever loved Clark Kent; she deserves that much. Not the kind of denouement you usually saw in a “Superman” story, but Julie had published some touching stories in that vein. (I think of the moving climax of a Dan Mishkin/Gary Cohn story in which Clark Kent and Superman, separated into two people, unite in grief at the graves of Ma and Pa Kent.) I called Julie and started pitching him the story, and I pitched it pretty much as I did in the preceding paragraphs, but I didn’t get very far before Julie interrupted: “Where’s the action?” Say again? “This is all character, theme. Where’s the action?” Well, truthfully, I didn’t have the action, at least not at that moment. The way I’d worked with other editors—Paul Levitz, Dick Giordano, Denny O’Neil— I told them the “character arcs,” as we say in television, and they trusted me to put in the superheroic action when I wrote the script. Not that my stories were exactly bristling with superheroic action—they’re basically character pieces, with just enough action to keep the plot moving. Julie liked action, he liked gimmicks, and he was clearly impatient with me that I didn’t seem to have any at hand. Suddenly I was that teenager again who missed the point of the “Flash” story.
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ABC’s This Week—and was startled to find a moving tribute to Julius Schwartz in the program’s closing moments! As Julie’s picture faded and was replaced by the covers of Showcase #4 and other Schwartz milestones, I watched with equal parts sorrow, amazement, and pride for Julie that his passing would be memorialized on a television series more usually inclined to pay tribute to presidents and premiers. At the end my eyes were not exactly dry, and there was fresh regret in my heart that I had let “The Return of Sally Selwyn” go unwritten; that I had not gone the extra distance to make it happen. But at least I had gotten to know a little better this man whose work gave me such pleasure when I was young—work which in many significant ways helped to mold me as a writer, and which (on the evidence of This Week) had a profound effect on many more of my generation, in many walks of life. For them and for me: Thanks, Julie.
NICK CARDY [Nick Cardy, nee Nicholas Viscardi (the birth-name he drew under at Quality and elsewhere in his younger days) is best remembered today for his stellar artwork on such DC features as Teen Titans, Aquaman, and Bat Lash.] As a freelance artist for DC, you get to see and talk to editors and writers, even though you may not work for them. Julie Schwartz was one of these during the years I was actively drawing comics. Many years later, I met Julie again at my first convention, the Heroes Con in Charlotte, North Carolina, in 1996. At that time, my agent Spencer Beck had me do an 11”x17” pencil drawing of all the characters I had even drawn, which was to be printed same-size and handed out at the door for Father’s Day. I was one of the many artists seated in the Artists’ Alley, alongside Julie and Irwin Hasen. Late one day, Julie comes up behind me and in a very low voice says, “Nick, you’re a very
So I stammered something to the effect of, well, let me work up some action beats and get back to you. But I never did. Other projects vied for my attention, and in those moments when I thought of “The Return of Sally Selwyn” I found it hard to get excited about ways in which Superman could, say, save an ocean liner through super-ventriloquism... and so I let the whole thing slide. Not long after, John Byrne wiped out the Earth-One Superman and all his history, including Sally Selwyn, and that was that. But Julie and I kept in touch over the years, running into each other now and then (mostly at Evanier’s), talking on the phone occasionally; I enjoyed his wicked sense of humor as well as his reminiscences of days past in the comics world. The Sunday after he died I happened to tune in to
Nick Cardy (standing) behind Julie and Irwin Hasen at Shelton Drum’s Heroes Con in Charlotte, NC, in 2000. Photo by Sam Maronie. Plus a previously unpublished Cardy Superman sketch, done in 2002 for Eddy Zeno. [Art ©2004 Nick Cardy; Superman TM & ©2004 DC Comics.]
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Comics Lovers––Pro and Fan––Remember Julius Schwartz
great artist. Could you give me a couple of those Father’s Day handouts?” Which I did. But I was completely surprised, because, as I recall, DC editors very seldom handed out compliments. Carmine Infantino once told me that he handed Julie a cover that he particularly liked and remarked, “Isn’t this a great cover?”—to which Julie said, “That’s what you’re getting paid for.” In my book The Art of Nick Cardy, Julie was one of the people who had something to say about me. This is what he wrote: “At that time Carmine used to lay out various covers for the artists. Well, one day Nick comes into the office to turn in a cover. Carmine looks at it and says, ‘This is not what I gave you!’ Nick says, ‘Yeah, I know—but it’s better.’ Carmine says, ‘You’re fired!’ Nick calmly replies, ‘Okay,’ and walks out. I then go into Carmine’s office and the cover really is beautiful. I say, ‘Carmine, this is great.’ He says, ‘Yeah, I know. Go get Nick.’” Several conventions later, I related Julie’s anecdote to Carmine. He was astounded and told me how much he respected me as a friend and artist, that it was unthinkable for him to have done what that article said. We proceeded to Julie’s table, where he was autographing his books. Carmine and I told Julie that we didn’t remember that incident. To which Julie casually remarked, “Well, it was a good story, anyway.” During one San Diego Comic-Con, I remember going down to the hotel dining room for breakfast. Julie was sitting alone at a table, so we had breakfast together and chatted. Presently Bob Oksner and his wife approached. We exchanged greetings and were talking of various subjects, when Mrs. Oksner proudly announced that she was a grandmother. Julie brushed it off, saying that he already had four grandchildren. Mrs. Oksner struck back: “Yes, but you’re old!”
Julie’s mouth was slightly open and he was speechless. That was the first time I ever saw him without some snappy comeback. Julie Schwartz was a great influence in the comics industry. I got to know him better when we were both guests at various conventions. We will have to get used to not seeing him at those functions, but—on second thought, the opera houses had their Phantoms, etc. Who knows—there could be Phantom Julie of the ComicCons!
MIKE FRIEDRICH [Mike Friedrich has the distinction of being the first publisher of a so-called “alternative” comics company (Star*Reach)—the first real agent for comic book artists and writers (with his Star*Reach agency)—and the first new writer recruited by Julie Schwartz in the 1960s. He also comments below on the memorial service held for Julie; the transcript of that tribute will appear in A/E #40.] On a snowy New York March 18, 2004, approximately 200 comics professionals and fans met to remember a man who had touched their careers and inner fantasies for 60 years. A few attendees like Irwin Hasen, Joe Kubert, Murphy Anderson, and Irwin Donenfeld had known Julie from the Forties. Others like Brian Tomsen had met him in his retirement in the Nineties. Neil Gaiman delivered the remarks of his contemporary Alan Moore, who’d first met Julie during his final professional decade of the Eighties. The largest contingent was those who had encountered him as fans, freelancers and fellow staffers from the late Sixties and early Seventies. Perhaps because this last group was my own cohort, I paid the (Above:) Mike Friedrich at a comicon circa 1967, around the time he sold Julie Schwartz the script for The Spectre #3 (March-April 1968). Thanks to Bob Cherry and Carl Gafford for the scans of its powerful Neal Adams art from that issue. That’s what we call starting off at the top, Mike! And, as a bonus, at top is a moody Spectre illo done by Neal for Marv Wolfman’s sketchbook in the late 1960s, courtesy of Neal and Marv. (But precisely what Marv was supposed to do faster and faster, we have no idea!) [Spectre art ©2004 DC Comics.]
Tributes to a Titan
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most attention to the speakers from them: Denny O’Neil, Mike Uslan, Jack C. Harris, Len Wein [delivered by Bob Greenberger], Guy H. Lillian III [delivered by Harris], Anthony Tollin, and Paul Levitz. O’Neil noted the affinity Julie had for double-identity characters, as one who kept his professional and personal lives very separate. Uslan spoke for his fellow baby-boomer fans who thought of Julie as a series of magic numbers [“4-8-13-14…22-23-24…28-28-30…(etc)”] denoting turning-point issues in the development of what came to be called DC’s Silver Age. Wein described how Julie “taught me plot structure and ingenuity and the persistence to keep at a story until it was right, until it was ready, until it was done.” Levitz twisted O’Neil’s comments inside out by noting that Julie had taught him “to marry the prettiest girl in the office,” alluding to the famous red hair of Jean Schwartz as well has Levitz’s own wife Jeanette.
As I grew during high school my comments began to contain suggestions for how stories could have been improved. As I neared my summer vacation in 1966 I off-handedly wrote asking if I could try writing a script. Julie quickly affirmatively replied and just as quickly rejected my first effort, an “Elongated Man” story.
Perhaps the most satisfying moment of the event personally was discovering that my own life-long pen-pal, Irene Vartanoff, had come up from Maryland to attend. She and Guy Lillian were “introduced” to me by Julie through his letter columns around 1965 and I’ve stayed in touch with both of them through correspondence and very occasional visits ever since. It was Guy who first called me within hours to let me know of Julie’s passing. Seeing Irene completed a circuit.
As I was graduating from high school the following month, I took the script payment [$10/page] and used it to go to New York for the summer before entering college.
Although I’m barely a footnote in Julie’s career, as the first [1967] of the baby-boomer writers he hired, in the life story where I’m the star, Julie was the one who published 50 teen comments of mine in his lettercols and then gave me my first job. My letter-writing began around the time the “new look” Batman was introduced, though I’d been a fan of Julie’s for two or three years before then. A couple of years later it turned into a bit of correspondence as Julie began to send short replies.
Not long after this, by coincidence Julie and his wife were taking a vacation to San Francisco. Guy Lillian and I arranged to come in from our suburban homes to see him together. Unfortunately, we had a neartragic auto accident on the way and wound up at the hospital instead of his hotel. Undeterred, I continued to submit ideas and scripts, and the following spring [May 10, 1967] he bought my first one, a “Robin, Boy Wonder” story that eventually saw print in Batman #202.
I finally met Julie by showing up on the day that DC conducted tours [I wasn’t old enough to know about making appointments] and then once in the office introducing myself. He was as many have described: a straight-laced formal guy with a white shirt and tie. My wardrobe was t-shirts and jeans. Despite this generation gap, he was straightforward, friendly, and amazingly tolerant. That first summer he worked with me on a handful of scripts, including the one that was first to be published, The Spectre #3, drawn by Neal Adams. I can’t think of a better way to start a multi-decade career.
FRANK GIELLA [The son of artist/inker Joe Giella, and himself a longtime friend of Julie Schwartz, Frank’s website can be accessed at www.frankgiella.com.] Thank you, Julie! As far back as I can remember, Julie Schwartz was my dad’s boss. Because of Julie, there was food on our table, a car in the driveway, and a roof over our heads. Julie always had work for Dad—45 years’ worth. In a tough industry where freelancers lived from paycheck to paycheck, Dad never had to worry as long as Julie was there. There were a few instances when Dad left comic books for artistic endeavors such as advertising and the Batman comic strip. But he always came back to Julie, and Julie always had a job waiting for him. Thank you, Julie. You were always there for my dad. For the last 7 or 8 years, Julie and I traveled to comic book conventions from one end of the country to the other. Sometimes, my dad joined us... if we twisted his arm back far enough. These journeys were never dull. Julie loved conventions because he loved the fans, and he loved comics. It is incredible how many people knew and loved him. I couldn’t count the number of folks he introduced me to. Thank you, Julie, for the opportunity to share in your travels! Julie was my teacher, always introducing me to something new. We spent one entire flight to San Diego talking about food. He told me what brand of soup to buy, and how to prepare tuna fish. He was Frank Giella in his studio, in front of “a couple of awesome Dan Barry Flash Gordon originals”—and papa Joe’s inking of a Dick Dillin splash from Justice League of America #101 (Sept. 1972), repro’d from the original art. Other pages of the Frank Giella art trove which he mentions can be seen elsewhere in this issue—and in the upcoming A/E #40. [JLA page ©2004 DC Comics.]
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Comics Lovers––Pro and Fan––Remember Julius Schwartz
always concerned about his health, and one of his secrets for longevity was that he ate a banana and drank a glass of orange juice every day. Julie insisted that I do the same. He taught me which brand of razors to shave with, and what sneakers to buy. I still use his “famous” recipe for marinating salmon: mix 1 teaspoon of olive oil, 1 teaspoon of Dijon mustard (Julie insisted that no other mustard would do), and 1 teaspoon of lemon. Pour it on the salmon, wait 1 hour, then bake it. Thank you, Julie for this recipe, and all the other tidbits you taught me. Julie was obsessed with time; he hated lateness. He would drive me crazy if I was late in picking him up. He had to be at the airport two hours before flights. He traveled with just one carry-on, so he didn’t have to wait for his luggage. He signed up for V.I.P. cards from hotels, to save time waiting in the regular customers’ line. Julie knew which seats to sit on, so he could get off the plane first. He knew when to eat breakfast, lunch, and dinner, before the crowds arrived. Julie was an efficient manager of time, and I learned from him. Thank you, Julie. Julie was always wonderful to my family. He loved my mom and dad. He loved my wife Etel, and always asked about our children. Two weeks before Julie died, Dad and I visited him at Winthrop Hospital. There was Julie: suffering from pneumonia, arms covered with bruises from numerous tests, and the first thing he asked me was “How is the new baby?” My children believed Julie was Superman’s friend, which he “proved” by showing them his Superman wallet. Whenever my son James and I visited Julie, he always had a DC character toy or a Superman pin to give James. For years, Julie had a small futuristic rocket car on his coffee table. During one visit, he saw how enamored James was of the toy, so he gave it to him. Julie: thanks for the rocket car, and thanks for treating my family like your own. For the last ten years, I have been obsessed with collecting original comic art. My main focus was my father’s DC work, followed by DC covers by other artists. Julie knew of this obsession and was very curious about it. We talked for hours about the art. I had to constantly update him on my new acquisitions. He always wanted to know how much my collection was worth. Julie and I were in Atlanta a few years back, when I picked up an interesting Gil Kane piece: a selfportrait of Gil with the Silver Age Atom in his hand. (I think this piece was later used as an Alter Ego cover.) When I showed it to Julie, he said, “Hey, that was my idea! I told Gil to draw this.” Julie often tried to help me acquire new pieces. One day, I took Julie grocery-shopping, and at dinner that evening, he gave me one of my most cherished pieces: the original Curt Swan art for a Superman model sheet. Julie always gave copies to his artists for reference. My dad still has a copy in his files. What makes the piece even more special is that
Curt Swan inked it, something he seldom did. At a New York City show, a collector gave Julie a charming little original. It was a Joe Kubert drawing for the top of the editor’s page. On the way home from the show—as a “thank you” for being his chauffeur—Julie signed the piece and gave it to me. During the Silver Age, many originals were destroyed. However, thanks to Julie, some were saved. Julie would send the original Flash art to the best letter-writers each month. Since my dad inked most of these early Flash stories, these are of particular interest to me. Over the years, many of these have resurfaced and I have acquired a fair number of them. The highlight is a complete story from The Flash #141, which I acquired from the original owner. Julie had sent him the art in 1963. Thank you, Julie, for saving this art! In the 1960s, Biljo White was the editor of Batmania, a Batman fanzine. When Biljo visited the DC offices, Julie gave Biljo the complete art for Detective Comics #339. Years later, the art became part of the Joe Desris collection. After Joe sold his Batman collection, I was able to acquire the story. It is in mint condition, with milky-white pages. The art is by Carmine Infantino and Joe Giella. All the pages were stamped December 1964 on the back: the month and year I was born! Julie got a kick out of seeing it again after all those years. He remembered Biljo and he remembered giving him the story. Then he autographed the pages to me. As far as I know, this is the only complete “Batman” story from this era. Thank you, Julie, for saving this special story. Additionally, I have acquired pages from The Flash #129, 134, 138, 142, and 153, and from Green Lantern #7, 23, and 26, and from Detective Comics #327, the first “New Look” “Batman.” All this work is priceless to me. Thank you, Julie, for saving them! Julie was a very special person. My children thought of him as Superman’s friend, but to me he was Superman! He touched so many people in so many ways. He lived a remarkable life. And was loved by so many people. I am so thankful that he honored me with his friendship.
DICK GIORDANO [Though he has been an artist in the field for over half a century, Dick Giordano is equally well known for his mid-1960s tenure as editor of Charlton, and for his two stints as an editor at DC in the late 1960s and during the 1980s and ’90s, the second time as the company’s head editor.]
Dick Giordano looking pensive at MegaCon in Orlando. Florida, in 1995 (photo by John Coker III, from the Julius Schwartz Collection)— and Dick’s great illo for the cover of the 1981 San Diego Comic-Con program book of heroes he inked (and, in the case of Batman and Robin, occasionally penciled, as well) for Julie. Thanks to Shel Dorf. [Art ©2004 Dick Giordano; characters TM & ©2004 DC Comics.]
Julie was my office mate after we moved DC’s offices to 909 Third Avenue. I learned to respect him from working so close to him and observing how he did things and how he treated people (not always nicely, but always appropriately). I didn’t have much knowledge of Julie’s accomplishments prior to my starting work at DC in 1967. I was fairly well distanced from the comics field outside of Charlton, where I worked from 1952 until 1967, so I wasn’t in awe, or really aware, of his past performance… only what he was doing now! I left DC in 1969-70 under less than ideal circumstances, but continued to
Tributes to a Titan freelance for them with Julie as my editor. I went home to work and catch my breath and Julie was right there! Daily phone calls inquired if I had enough work. Did I need a check? What did I want to work on next? Would I enjoy a “Strange Sports Story” to pencil and ink or a JLA ink job? He made my presence in the field a pleasure, and I sometimes think my later return to DC would not have been so successful if Julie hadn’t made my DC professional life in the late ’60s such a pleasure! Thank you, Julie… and good afternoon.
MIKE GOLD [Mike Gold spent a goodly number of years from the 1970s to the 1990s as a comic book editor, mostly for DC and for First Comics, which he helped found in the 1980s. He says that writing this short piece was “like remembering the best meal I ever ate.”] There was one phrase that sounded over and over throughout the hallowed halls of comics fandom since February 8, 2004: “If not for Julie Schwartz, we would not be here today.” There are so many reasons why that’s true; I would like to dwell upon one.
fandom, and the gateway for the next generation of comics professionals. When I first joined the DC Comics staff back in 1976, Julie had the office two doors down—his assistant, the encyclopedic E. Nelson Bridwell, separated us. I was all too aware of the legend lurking in my midst. I got the feeling Julie was used to that response, because by the time lunch had come around he had made me feel like we were old buddies. When I told him I had just moved from Chicago, Julie’s eyes lit up. Louis Armstrong! Joe Oliver! Bix Beiderbecke! We discovered we were also part of a whole different type of fandom—pre-war jazz. It was a strong and enduring bond indeed. Within days, Julie had pulled all sorts of historical relics out of his office files: edited scripts, sketches, letters. But, mostly, Julie pulled out stories. Wonderful, fabulous stories—at least as interesting as any of the many Alley award-winning comics he guided through publication. We debated and discussed many a topic, from the comic book villain’s selfimage to the evolution of Ashkenazi-American culture to the importance of Paul Whiteman’s place in our nation’s musical heritage. Each time I came away with my soul enriched.
Like Mort Weisinger, Jerry Siegel, and Joe Shuster, Julie was one of the handful of men who made the transition from science-fiction’s fabled First Fandom to the young, struggling world of comics. They were fans of that particular brand of pulp fiction that sought to quench the thirst of our higher imagination. But Julie Schwartz brought the fan’s sensibilities to his work in comics. Julie understood the importance of maintaining continuity, and he understood its limitations, as well. He didn’t arbitrarily or capriciously change talent assignments or story directions, instead maintaining a steady hand at the tiller. When he revitalized classic Golden Age characters for a contemporary audience, he kept what was important and changed what was not, but he did so with an obvious respect for that which had gone before. That’s no easy trick. Certainly other editors had run letters pages—they can be found in comics dating back to the Golden Age. But Julie picked up a couple of important clues from the editors of Amazing Stories, Weird Tales, and similar pulp titles. He paid close attention to his correspondents at a time when many aging comics editors felt their hardcore readers to be lonely mutants woefully in need of a life. He valued input from those who took the time to offer it; he rewarded their enthusiasm and gave their suggestions all due consideration. More significant, he helped those hardcore readers feel as though they were part of a community. It became a selffulfilling prophecy. It became the cornerstone of comics
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He was always Julie, to absolutely everybody. I think people thought of Julius Schwartz the way they thought of Julius Marx—like Groucho’s, Julie’s birth name wasn’t quite the right one. For years I had been after Julie to attend the Chicago Comicon, with which I was still associated at the time. When his beloved wife Jean died, Julie took me up on my offer—I think as a means to get himself out of the house they had shared, to give him something different to do. Julie became a regular at the Chicago Comicon, at least during my tenure. During one of his earliest appearances, his plane was delayed due to a Midwestern downpour of Noah-like proportions. When he staggered in around midnight, DC’s Peggy May (now Peggy Ordway) was taking care of the company’s hotel reservations while Julie and I held up the wall in deep conversation. A Golden Age artist of my acquaintance walked by, said hello to me, started a conversation, and stopped dead in his tracks. “Julie Schwartz!” the artist proclaimed. “My God, I haven’t seen you in years!” The artist proceeded to catch Julie up on his activities during the previous decades. It was quite late and Julie was tired and rumpled, but he remained polite and smiling for the better part of the hour it took the artist to wear himself out. As the artist shook our hands and meandered away, Julie—without ever taking his eyes off the artist or dropping his smile— mumbled to me. “Who was that guy?” I told him. “Oh. Him.” Julie replied. “You know, I hated that guy’s stuff!”
Mike Gold (seen in photo) eyes one of Julie Schwartz’s many science-fiction covers—in this case, Strange Adventures #58 (July 1955). Bob Bailey, who provided the scan, says this Gil Kane cover was basically inked by Sid Greene—but that there’s some evidence Sy Barry worked on it, as well, either repenciling backgrounds or figures. [Cover ©2004 DC Comics.]
I fell over in laughter. Julie Schwartz. Comics’ first fanboy. First—and forever!
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Comics Lovers––Pro and Fan––Remember Julius Schwartz At the memorial for Julie, Neil Gaiman read a piece written by Alan Moore which described a photo album with some of the greatest names in early 20th-century science-fiction, including H.P. Lovecraft. Try as I might, I could never convince Julie to bring that in and let us scan those classic images. Too bad, because that’s where the history of our medium truly begins.
This photo of (left to right) Bob Rozakis, Julie, and Bob Greenberger at the 1989 I-Con. At right is one of the many photos he arranged (on Julie’s behalf) for TwoMorrows to preserve: a shot of Jean Ordwein (the future Mrs. S.) between Julie and John Broome on a lovely day on a lovely day circa 1946. (See more of this idyll on our flip side.) Both photos from the Julius Schwartz Collection.
BOB GREENBERGER [Bob Greenberger has worked in the comics field, mostly for DC Comics, since 1984, and is currently the latter’s Senior EditorCollected Editions. It was Bob who arranged for TwoMorrows to make copies of much of Julie Schwartz’ vast collection of photos, before they were auctioned and sold last year. We also asked if he could tell us about them, and about his relationship with Julie.]
[A/E P.S.: At least a few of those photos appear in Julie’s 2005 book Man of TwoWorlds. Perhaps, if someone purchased that album at the auction, he/she will share it with the rest of us one of these fine days.]
DAVE HUNT [Dave Hunt has been a comic book inker since 1972, and embellished numerous stories for Julie Schwartz at DC.] When I heard Julie had actually died, I was really stunned. I mean, he had always seemed so indestructible to me—dare I use the word “invulnerable”? He always had the stamina and physique of a much younger man, right up to the end. Some of his other “super-powers” were a faultless memory, a wicked sense of humor, and a cast-iron stomach. (He used the latter to devour gigantic pastrami-on-rye sandwiches at lunchtime.)
Carefully maintained in a filing drawer were two large envelopes, carefully organized and labeled. Whenever visitors came to see Julie, if they were first-timers, they were invited to take a look at their contents. There was the collection of photos of Julie with contemporaries such as Forry Ackerman and Robert Bloch, or the assortment of shots of Julie on stage at various conventions over the years. His favorite envelope, it seemed, was the one of him with women. Lots of women. While he has a reputation for preferring blondes, the photos show otherwise. Julie was equal opportunity all the way. At some point, I suggested to Julie that these photos be memorialized for future generations. In many ways, science-fiction and comics fandom owe Julie for helping them both get started. People will no doubt be curious who these people were and what they looked like. Julie liked the idea, but wasn’t certain how best to go about this. John Morrow of TwoMorrows Publishing came to the rescue, volunteering to have the photos digitalized and labeled. Julie reluctantly let them out of his office for several weeks, and John was quick and efficient. Soon, the photos were returned, along with a disc. Julie, who made his living imagining the future, inspiring others to anticipate things to come, and reveling in each technological advancement, stared at the disc. For perhaps the first time in our friendship, spanning more than twenty years, he started at an object in wonder. How on Earth could all those photos fit on one shiny disc? John saw to it that Julie received a disc and photocopies of all the ganged-up photos, all carefully labeled. This was for Julie and his family. I received a set for DC’s archival purposes. And John kept a set for Roy Thomas to use in Alter Ego. Julie had agreed to help annotate the photos so that we’d have entertaining captions for Roy to use, but unfortunately he fell ill before we could really get started in that area.
(Left—and l. to r.:) Artist/inker Dave Hunt grins for the camera while Joe Kubert and Julie talk, at Joe Petrilak’s All Time Classic New York Comic Book Convention, held in White Plains, NY, in June 2000. Thanks to Dave and Joe for the photo. (Above:) Swan-penciled, Hunt-inked splash of Superman #383 (May 1983), done for Julie as editor. [Superman page ©2004 DC Comics.]
Tributes to a Titan I have to admit that, when I first began working for him, I was a bit intimidated. I hadn’t yet learned that Julie’s gruff exterior concealed a tender heart. Early on, I asked him about his career as a sci-fi literary agent. He mentioned a few really obscure writers, and he lit up when I could name stories they had written. (My scifi-reading youth wasn’t quite as wasted as I thought!)
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“THE STAN & JULIE SHOW”:
The only “contact” that Julie and I had with each other was, “You do good work and meet the deadline, and I’ll always have a check ready for you.” He was always pitching ideas and asking me to do the same. One day I came into his office and I saw him looking over an enormous pile of legal-looking papers. By then I was at ease with Julie, so I just asked, “What the hell is that?”
Stan Lee and Julie shaking hands at the 1993 Chicago Comicon. Julie, of course, would’ve preferred the billing be “The Julie & Stan Show.” The closest the two Silver Age giants ever came to working together was on the very first DC-and-Marvel cross-company super-hero venture, Superman vs. Spider-Man, in 1976, with Julie as DC’s “consulting editor” in a special “presented by Carmine Infantino and Stan Lee.” Cover by Ross Andru & Dick Giordano, from an Infantino layout. [Superman TM & ©2004 DC Comics; Spider-Man TM & ©2004 Marvel Characters, Inc.]
This is almost an exact quote of his reply: “My wife died recently, after a long illness. These are her medical bills. It’s very complicated.” We just looked at each other for as long time. “Julie, I’m so sorry.” We looked at each other a few seconds more, then Julie lowered his eyes, and we went back to work.
On a lighter note, one time I drew a “Bizarro Julie” and gave it to him as a gift. He just grinned and stuck it in his desk. Darned if it didn’t show up some months later on a letters page. Julie and I had a running gag with each other. Way back, I got into the habit of starting sentences with “Well…” in imitation of thenPresident Reagan. Each time I delivered a job to Julie, he’d ask me how I liked the story. I’d start off, “Well…” and Julie would interrupt me, growling, “You’ve gone to the well once too often, my friend!” Good days. I’ll miss you, my friend.
STAN LEE [If Julie Schwartz was the first architect of the Silver Age of Comics, beginning in 1956 with Showcase #4, Stan Lee was the second, commencing with 1961’s Fantastic Four #1. In the 1990s, the two men appeared together several times at comics convention, often billed informally as “The Stan and Julie Show.” These comments by Stan, written on the day of Julie’s passing, have appeared elsewhere, but he and we wished them printed here, as well.] Although I’ve known Julie for years, I never really got to know him as much as I would have liked to. We’ve never actually worked together, so the only times I saw him were at comic book conventions and similar occasions. We’ve been on innumerable panels together, and he was always cheerful, witty, and friendly—one of the most likable guys imaginable. I deeply regret that I never had the chance to know Julie better, because from all I’ve heard from those who’ve worked with him and
from what I’ve observed myself, he was certainly one of the nicest guys in our field—or in any field. Judging by all the calls I’ve had in the past few hours since his death, Julie Schwartz, a comic book giant, is already greatly missed.
PAUL LEVITZ [Paul Levitz came to work for DC Comics in the 1970s as one of the legendary “Junior Woodchucks.” Working his way up the ladder as a writer, he is now DC’s president and publisher. Paul’s part in the March 2004 memorial tribute to Julie Schwartz will appear two issues from now.] Between a couple of written eulogies, a spoken one at his memorial, and several celebratory pieces in the time leading up to his passing, I’m rather “written out” of formal farewells for Mr. Schwartz. Instead, let me offer a brief thank-you for his thoroughness in preserving history for the benefit of future publications like Alter Ego. As relatively few people are aware, Julie kept his editorial records extremely thoroughly, and intact. The former is a rarity in this field of rushed deadlines…the latter is, I believe, unique. As a result we have a record of credits for all the titles he worked on either as editor or record-keeper (primarily those edited by his longtime editorial roommate, Bob Kanigher)… for the period 1951-1986. It’s a treasure trove of information, down to dates the scripts and artwork were turned in. I spent a few moments trolling through the worn pages, considering how we might best preserve them. A few nuggets, from the sublime to the ridiculous: • Legendary sf editor H.L. Gold wrote a single “Wonder Woman” story, “Nine Lives Club” in 1949, after creator William Moulton Marston had died and before Bob Kanigher settled in for his long run on the series. Master writer of many media Bill Woolfolk also contributed a
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Comics Lovers––Pro and Fan––Remember Julius Schwartz work. So I went to see Julius Schwartz, who was then, in 1967, not the legend he would become. Maybe I’d be able to wangle a writing job from him. Maybe two. Probably wouldn’t hurt to ask.
Paul Levitz with Julie at “an early 85th-birthday celebration” in 2000—and the splash page of one of only three comic book stories ever scripted by Julie. Back in the 1970s, at the outset of his career, Paul was one of the “Junior Woodchucks”—a name for DC junior staffers—who put together issues of the company’s own fabled “fanzine,” The Amazing World of DC Comics. One of the ’Chucks stumbled across the original art to this unpublished mid-1940s tale of the Golden Age Green Lantern, drawn by GL-creator Mart Nodell, and it was finally printed in AWDCC #3 for Nov. 1974—the Julie Schwartz special, of course. Photo from the Julius Schwartz Collection. [GL page ©2004 DC Comics.]
“Wonder Woman” tale at about the same time. • Shadow creator Walter Gibson wrote for Julie, contributing a science-fiction tale to Strange Adventures #22 (“Hands From Nowhere”)…and I thought I had bought his only DC tale when I got him to contribute to Detective Comics #500, decades later. • Ric Estrada made his Wonder Woman debut with #176 of the Silver Age series, imitating the recently-reassigned Ross Andru, years before he began his own run on the strip in his natural, more cartoony style. • And for those who have spent the years wondering, Matt Mason #1 was planned for the January 1969 cover date schedule, before the toy project was cancelled. Some day soon, scholars will dig into this material, and find far more of the history. We can thank Julie for making history… but also for preserving it for the historians.
I really don’t remember how my first meeting with Julie went. It happened almost 40 years ago and I wasn’t taking notes. But I do know that I left his office with an assignment to do a “Green Lantern” story. Something involving time travel. I went home and began writing. About three quarters of the way through the script, I had an idea that had not occurred to me earlier, when I’d been talking to Julie, I was so new at the freelance writing gig that I doubt it even occurred to me that changing a plot an editor had already okayed might be a breech of etiquette. I delivered the manuscript and Julie not only accepted it, he approved of my addition. That began a long, generally pleasant, and almost always productive association. Most of the stuff I did that’s remembered from those long-dead days was done for Julie. We worked well together and I’m not sure why. But whatever it may have been that I needed from an editor, Julie supplied. Part of his methodology concerned his ego—or, more properly, his lack of ego. He had one, but he kept it well and properly hidden during business hours. As his friend Alfred Bester wrote, “Among professionals, the job is boss.” The transaction was never about him, nor about me; it was about doing the best possible story and dealing with whatever
DENNIS O’NEIL [Denny O’Neil came to work in comic books—originally for Stan Lee at Marvel—in 1965—and is best known for his writing (under Julius Schwartz) of Green Lantern/Green Arrow and “Batman,” and as the longtime editor of the Batman comics until his recent retirement from that position. He currently writes JLA, another comic he originally scripted for Julie.] The middle-aged guy was wearing a white shirt and tie and he was sitting behind a desk. I knew an authority figure when I saw one, and so I’d have to approach him cautiously, as I might approach a snake lying in my path. It might not be poisonous, but… I was 26 and my young life had not been blessed by good experiences with authority figures, in previous jobs—in the Navy, in college or high school, or even in grade school. If a man was an authority figure, I’d better avoid him, if I could. But I had a wife and an infant son and no money and I needed
Two of Paul’s discoveries from Julie’s meticulous records relate to Wonder Woman #35 (May-June 1949) and Strange Adventures #22 (July 1952). Read his comments to see what Paul learned. [©2004 DC Comics.]
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(Below:) Denny O’Neil and Julie at the “MarCon” (whatever/wherever the heck that was) in a 1993 photo from the Julius Schwartz Collection —plus two gorgeous Neal Adams pages scripted by Denny and edited by Julie. (Left:) A climactic scene from the 1969 “Batman” story “The Secret of the Waiting Graves.” (Right:) It’s polite to swear—in Green Lantern #78 (July 1970). Actually, that GL oath, according to Julie, was devised by science-fiction author Alfred Bester in the mid-1940s for the Golden Age GL—but Denny wrote everything else (and some influential issues of the mag then known unofficially as Green Lantern/Green Arrow). Both pages repro’d from photocopies of the original black-&-white art, thanks to Batman from the 30’s to the 70’s and Ray A. Cuthbert, respectively. [Pages ©2004 DC Comics.]
constraints were being imposed on us. We weren’t pals, nor even close acquaintances, not back then. We were colleagues. But our relationship quickly evolved from an initial wariness—on my part and, I suspect, also on his—to respect. The friendship came later, after the professional association had ended. Another Schwartz editorial characteristic, one exemplified by his willingness to accept, without fuss, the change I made in our first “Green Lantern” collaboration, was his flexibility. He had as healthy a respect for the past, in both science-fiction and comics, as anyone I ever met, and he enjoyed reminiscing about the old days. But he worked in the present. He realized, maybe intuitively, that any medium, including comics, must change as the world changes or soon become dated, irrelevant, extinct. That was most emphatically demonstrated in 1956 when his bosses asked him to revive The Flash, a once-popular hero who had been in limbo since the comics sales implosion of the early part of the decade. Working with writers Robert Kanigher and John Broome and artist Carmine Infantino, Julie kept the basic Flash concept—the world’s fastest man—but he modernized
virtually everything else. When Julie’s revision of The Flash succeeded, he performed a similar service for Green Lantern and then most of the other DC costume-wearers—and, in the process, virtually reinvented the super-hero genre. So later, when other writers and I proposed revisions in continuing series, Julie listened with no preconceptions and then, if he felt the ideas had merit, enthusiastically helped develop them. The enthusiasm never waned. Long after he’d stopped actively editing, he’d ask those of us who were still in the trenches what was new, what was going on. By then, he’d stuck the white shirt and tie that had made me wary in a closet someplace and with them, the slightly gruff professional persona. Oh, he was still gruff, but so broadly that he was obviously spoofing gruffness. He had become everyone’s favorite grandpa. He’d arrive at DC’s offices at about 10:00 on Thursday mornings, having braved the subway ride in from Queens, and sit at the desk provided for him, and call old friends. Then, maybe, he’d wander up the hall and stick his head into various editors’ offices and want to know what they were up to.
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Comics Lovers––Pro and Fan––Remember Julius Schwartz The splash and another of the 30 pages from one of the socalled “German ‘Superman’ stories,” written by Bob R. and E. Nelson Bridwell, drawn by Alex Saviuk and Frank Chiaramonte, and edited by Julie. That Schwartz guy never quit! Repro’d from photocopies of the original art, with thanks to Bob Rozakis—and to Paul Levitz, who told us about this material in the first place. See photo of Bob R. on p. 22. [Superman pages ©2004 DC Comics.]
The latter-day Julie Schwartz, with his open collar and friendly smile, would not have intimidated the early, hippie-ish me. I wouldn’t have known what to make of him, but he certainly wouldn’t have scared me. If I’d been able to look just a micron or so beneath the surface, he wouldn’t have scared me in 1967, either. The favorite grandpa was always there for anyone who could see him.
BOB ROZAKIS [Bob Rozakis is a veteran comic book writer and often editor, and worked with Julie Schwartz on one of the DC icon’s last projects. Not that that’s all he’s got to say about Julie…] Julie loved to talk… and to tell stories about the business. Being on a panel with him at a convention was a challenge—once he started rolling, it was hard for anyone to get a word in. Case in point was one year in San Diego. Julie was among the guests on a Silver Age panel, which I had agreed to moderate. I don’t recall who the other panelists were… and I’m sure no one in the audience would remember, either. After allowing the others to introduce themselves, I turned to Julie and said, “So, tell us how you invented the Silver Age of Comics.” Julie spoke nonstop for 45 minutes, after which he looked at his watch and said, “I’m meeting Gil Kane for dinner in fifteen minutes, so I have to go.” He got up and received a standing ovation from the large crowd. As he stood in the doorway, I said, “But, Julie, you didn’t tell them how you gave Barry Allen his name.” This launched Julie into another twenty minutes of stories, after which he looked at his watch and fumed, “Now I’m late for dinner! Thanks a lot, Rozakis!” With the audience still standing and applauding, he made his way out of the room.
By now, of course, the panel had run over by five minutes, so none of the other folks on the panel even got to say a word after Julie left. I doubt that any of them ever signed up to be on a panel with Julie again—at least, not if they hoped to actually say anything. After Julie’s funeral service in March of 2004, more than a couple of DC staffers, myself included, made a stop in the men’s room before leaving. “Schwartz’s Law,” we said to one another as we moved in and out of the lavatory, much to the puzzlement of some of the people who overheard us. Probably for all of his career, Julie made sure to go to the men’s room at the end of the day before heading down to the subway. His philosophy that you never wanted to be stuck on a subway train when nature called was refined to “Never go anywhere without going first” and was dubbed “Schwartz’s Law” by yours truly. Wise advice for anyone about to embark on a trip by train, plane, or automobile. [A few years ago, I was attending I-Con in Stony Brook, Long Island, and had a conversation with former astronaut Scott Carpenter. After
chatting for a while, we were both scheduled for panels. When I said I wanted to make a stop at the men’s room, Carpenter said he did, too. He told me, “After my first space flight, I was in a parade with Lyndon Johnson and he gave me very good advice: ‘Now that you’re famous, there are two things you should never pass up. One is a free lunch and the other is the chance to go to the bathroom.’” This has since been dubbed “Lyndon Johnson’s Corollary to Schwartz’s Law.”] One “It’s a Small World” fact about Julie to share: he and my father graduated from the same New York City high school… in the same year! While neither remembered the other—there was little if any overlap between the Greek kids and the Jewish kids—the odds are that they shared a few classes. Probably even sat near one another, Rozakis and Schwartz being pretty close, alphabetically.
Addendum: The German Superman Stories In the early 1980s, DC entered a deal with Ehapa, a German publisher, to produce new material for a quarterly 48-page Superman magazine. The majority of the stories were 46 pages, though there was at
Tributes to a Titan least one occasion in which a 30-pager and a 16-pager were provided. Though I don’t have an exact count, I believe more than a dozen issues were produced. These stories were done by Julie’s regular stable of writers and artists, in between their regular assignments, and sent off to Ehapa. In most of the cases, Julie split the writing duties, so that a number of his writers got “a piece of the pie.” E. Nelson Bridwell and I collaborated on a couple of the stories; Paul Kupperberg and I shared the writing on others. In each case, one of us would do the plot—page-by-page breakdowns for the artist—and the other would do the dialogue. Most of these stories were never seen by American comics readers. “The Startling Saga of Superman-Red and Superman-Blue” appeared in an edition printed by Ehapa and distributed in the US—the only one of the Ehapa editions that had an American version. It was a squarebound, 8H” x 11” package with a painted cover that made it look much more like a coloring book than a comic book. Another of the stories that I worked on, featuring The Planeteer, was split into two parts and appeared in the September 1983 issues of Superman and Action Comics. I believe that another story—one I didn’t write—made it into print as an Annual, though I don’t recall which one. The issues that I worked on (and the info I have about them): Superman Spectacular: “Starling Story of Superman-Red and Superman-Blue” [plot: Rozakis; dialogue: Kupperberg; pencils: Adrian Gonzalez; inks: Vince Colletta], 46 pp. Superman Quarterly #7: “My Master, the Parasite” [plot: Bridwell; dialogue: Rozakis], 46 pp, Superman Quarterly #8: “My Friends—the Enemy” [script: Rozakis], 46 pp. Superman Quarterly #10: Untitled, 46 pp. Superman Quarterly: “Partners in Peril” [plot: Bridwell; dialogue: Rozakis; pencils: Alex Saviuk; inks:
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Frank Chiaramonte], 30 pp. Superman Quarterly: “The Planeteer” [plot: Rozakis; dialogue: Kupperberg; pencils: Curt Swan; inks: Colletta]
ALEX SAVIUK [Alex Saviuk has drawn comics since the 1970s—largely for DC and Marvel—and for some years has been the penciler of the Sunday Spider-Man newspaper comic strip scripted by Stan Lee.] I can recall the first time I was introduced to Julie Schwartz—by Vince Colletta. It was a sunny afternoon in July of 1977. I had been married just a few short weeks, had had a great honeymoon in Bermuda, and was on my way into DC’s offices to drop off a 2-page Witching Hour story to editor Murray Boltinoff. (New pencilers broke in by doing short “mystery” stories until something “better” came along.) Vince intercepted me in the halls and asked if I would be interested in doing a fill-in Green Lantern, because Mike Grell was busy doing another project. Gil Kane was also one of my idols and major influences—so of course I said “YES!” while shaking with anticipation. After initial introductions were made, Julie, with furrowed brow, asked me, “So what makes you think you can draw Green Lantern?” I told him that GL was one of my favorite characters and that I idolized Gil Kane. Julie’s reply: “Colletta says that your pencils are tighter and better than Kane’s!” (Vince was overly generous—he always liked inking very tight pencils—it let him work that much faster.) After picking up my jaw from his desk, I sheepishly replied that I could only try to live up to Gil’s already illustrious reputation. Julie had me do a few figure samples. A few days later I walked out of his office with the Denny O’Neil script for Green Lantern #100! (Page rate was $25 for pencils. After doing that issue, Julie was very happy to announce that I was already receiving a raise on my next GL story to $28—but don’t let it go to my head!)
Hey! How’d that wall-crawler sneak in here?? Well, could be because Alex Saviuk currently pencils the Sunday Spider-Man newspaper strip, and inks the daily over Larry Lieber. But he did a lot of work for Julie Schwartz, including penciling the German Superman art on the preceding page and, first of all, Green Lantern #100 (Oct. 1978). He also did this Atom sketch for Ed Zeno, who shared it with us. GL #100 original art courtesy of Bob Cherry. [Green Lantern art ©2004 DC Comics; Spider-Man TM & ©2004 Marvel Characters, Inc.; Atom sketch ©2004 Alex Saviuk; The Atom TM & ©2004 DC Comics.]
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Comics Lovers––Pro and Fan––Remember Julius Schwartz
(Of special note to completists: although Vince Colletta received the inking credit for my Green Lantern #100 story, he actually inked only the heads. To help him meet his deadline, Frank Giacoia inked all the figures and possibly some of the backgrounds.) Some artists thought that Julie was overly meticulous and stifling to their “visions.” (Julie had no patience for prima donnas—especially if they were late!) I was a working professional who got my work in on time. We had a great relationship! God bless you, Julie, for believing in me! Our hearts go out to Julie Schwartz’s family. His passing only reminds us of the legacy he has left. His vision brought back and reintroduced all those wonderful heroes that fueled our imaginations and enriched our lives to the point where some of us fortunate few were later able to take part in such a wonderful industry that lets our dreams come alive.
J. DAVID SPURLOCK [David, who colored this issue’s cover, is the prime mover of Vanguard Publications, which has published quality books featuring the work of Carmine Infantino, Nick Cardy, and others. He also acted as Julie Schwartz’s personal-appearance agent in the last few years of Julie’s life.] Julie was a tough editor, but a sweetheart of a man. He loved bean soup, blonde women, science-fiction, and sweet Manhattans. His last hurrah was our appearance at DragonCon in Atlanta last September. He had a great time and presented both Forry Ackerman and Jim Steranko with the Julie: Man of Two Worlds Award. Other recent appearances we made included last year’s San Diego ComicCon, Mocca’s Harvey Awards presentation, and Arlen Schumer’s Silver Age of Comic Book Art premiere party in New York City. I am very proud that Julie regularly appeared at conventions in support of Vanguard, about which he said: “Just as I served as the vanguard of the Silver Age of Comics, J. David Spurlock’s line of books serves as the vanguard of Silver Age comics histories.” Though it may seem self-serving, I wanted to use that quote since, after he gave it to me, he frequently wanted to know when and where we’d use it. Here it is, Julie—in Alter Ego, the fanzine you helped start. Editorially, Julie was most involved with our books The Amazing World of Carmine Infantino and Curt Swan: A Life in Comics. I miss him very much and keep his photo in my office. Thank you, Julie, for everything.
MARV WOLFMAN [Marv Wolfman has been a writer and often editor in the comic book field since the late 1960s; he is best known (to date) for scripting Tomb of Dracula at Marvel in the 1970s, and The New Teen Titans and Crisis on Infinite Earths at DC in the ’80s. This piece originally appeared on Marv’s website at www.marvwolfman.com.] A personal memory. Not a huge one, although I worked with Julie for several years on Superman. But it shows how someone who had been in the business seemingly forever was able to adapt. Julie didn’t rely on what even he had done before.
Julie loved to work with a writer on the plotting of a book. I think it was his favorite part of the creative process. Having edited my own stories at Marvel, I wasn’t used to verbalizing my plots. I wrote them up, sent them to the artist, and then, some time later, got back the finished art. But DC worked differently back then, and Julie wanted full scripts, and he wanted to work on the plots with me. I have to admit I was uncomfortable with that. I don’t enjoy talking out my stories. What works on paper doesn’t always work verbally, especially when trying to sell stories about men who can move J. David Spurlock (center) with a few fairly well-known comics pros planets and had powers like super(left to right): Carmine Infantino, Julie Schwartz, Jim Steranko, Stan breath. It just sounds dumb. Also, in Lee. Plus a classic of the Silver Age of Comics: the Infantino-penciled, my mind I don’t always speak well, Murphy Anderson-inked, and Schwartz-edited cover for Mystery in the problem of working alone for Space #73 (Feb. 1962), repro’d from a photocopy of the original art. years in a tiny room, typing away on [Art ©2004 DC Comics.] a typewriter back then or on a computer now. But Julie wanted to go over the plots, so I wrote them out in detail as I always did, then came in to the office and essentially read the plot without actually reading it. Julie would always interject his thoughts. I’d scribble a few notes, and we parted. Next time he saw me was with the finished script. So, one day, at the end of a severalpart “Superman” story, I came in with the new issue idea. We talked about it. He added a couple of ideas, and we parted. For about half an hour. Something hit me as I left the office. The story was wrong. Not wrong in plot structure; that was fine. It was just not the story I now wanted to write. The story I instantly came up with, however, could not be verbally explained without sounding really dumb. It had to do with aliens taking over the Earth and robbing everyone of the very concept of the heroic ideal. That included the super-heroes, as well. Not even they had any idea they could be heroes. I quickly typed up the idea and went back into Julie’s office. He was
Tributes to a Titan
29
obviously surprised to see me, but I said I needed to change the story, and for once I couldn’t possibly explain what I wanted to do. “Read this,” I said, handing him my idea. Julie never read plots. He really wanted to work them out with the writers. He’d done it that way since the ’40s, and here I was, coming in and saying that what we had worked out and had been accepted a half hour before needed to be junked. Most editors back then would have said no. Do what was approved. Go home and don’t bother me. But Julie dutifully read my idea, thought it was one of my best “Superman” stories to date, and approved it on the spot, with no additions. The story, you see, showed how two young boys, not believing in the heroic ideal, still believed they had to stop the aliens. One of the boys was a writer, the other was an artist. One was named Jerry. The other was named Joe. They got together and created a character who they thought could help them. Slowly, they pieced together the man, his origin—he came from another world—and his costume, right down to the big red “S” on the yellow triangular shield. Those two boys, Jerry and Joe, modeled of course on Superman’s creators, Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster, created Superman yet again. Marv Wolfman (right) with Julie and fellow writer/editor Len Wein (left) at the “Los-Con” in 1995—plus the cover and an interior page from Action Comics #554 (April 1984) by Marv and artist Gil Kane; thanks to Bob Cherry for the scans. Marv calls the story “my favorite ‘Superman’ script.” Photo from the Julius Schwartz Collection. (Len’s own commentary about Julie will appear in A/E #40, in our transcription of Julie’s memorial service.) [Pages ©2004 DC Comics.]
With their creation a reality, the aliens’ spell ended. Superman remembered who and what he was, and routed the aliens, saving the planet Earth. And, at the end, two other kids who lived nowhere near Jerry and Joe started to create their own comic book hero. They were Joe Simon and Jack Kirby. The idea of heroes could never die. The story was well received, and I still think of it as my favorite “Superman” script. It might never have come out if Julie hadn’t been willing to go with the flow. If he had decided to stick to his editorial guns as so many other editors would have. And it would never have happened if I hadn’t known that Julie was more interested in producing a good comic story than in pushing his power. That’s it. Nothing else. Rest in peace, Julie. [NOTE: So many tributes—so little space! More to come in A/E #40!] We’ll end this tribute section with this previously unpublished 2003 sketch by veteran pro José García-López of what is probably Julie’s most important co-creation, the Silver Age Flash. Any complaints? We didn’t think so. If Julie’s motto was “The eye must be happy!” we kinda suspect this illo will fill the bill. With thanks to the artist and to Michael Zeno. [Art ©2004 José García López; Flash TM & ©2004 DC Comics.]
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Michael T. Gilbert
Strange Schwartz Stories! by Michael T. Gilbert Do I have a Julie Schwartz story for you? Boy! Do I have a Julie Schwartz story for you!! Well…er… no, actually. Never met the guy, unfortunately, nor did I ever work with him. And while I greatly enjoyed seeing Julie perform on various comic panels, it’s just not the same as actually knowing him. So, no, I don’t have a Julie Schwartz story for you. Sorry. But fortunately, you don’t need one from me. This special tribute issue includes lots of Julie’s friends and colleagues, with better stories than any I could tell. More importantly, the only Julie Schwartz stories that really matter are the ones in Julie’s comics. Those stories live on, indelibly etched in the brains of generations of young comic book fans. Others may have written those tales, but Julie was the orchestra leader who shaped them. And what stories they were! Who could forget reading “Flash of Two Worlds!” for the first time and discovering that there was an “Earth-Two,” populated by DC heroes from the 1940s? I still remember the thrill of seeing the Silver Age Flash, (the only Flash I knew!) stumble into another dimension to meet another Flash from an earlier era. “Another Flash? Whoa!” This 9-year-old was blown away by The Flash #123 (Sept. 1961). A whole world of super-heroes I’d never even dreamed of, with cool names and costumes, heroes that had lived and faded away before I was even born! Julie brought classic sci-fi concepts like “parallel universes” to a new generation of comic fans. Thanks, Julie! A Gil Kane/Murphy Anderson page from Green Lantern #74 (Jan. 1970), “Lost in Space”— just before the O’Neil/Adams GL/GA team-up began. As Jerry Bails said when ID’ing this art, “You don’t get better inking than this!” The page is repro’d from a photocopy of the original art, thanks to collector/dealer Tom Horvitz, who always has lots of goodies for sale. He can be reached by phone in Tarzana, CA, at (818) 757-0747. Or try his website at <www.trhgallery.com>. [©2004 DC Comics.]
True, the stories didn’t always make a lot of sense—not to an adult, anyway. But they were always fun and memorable. And the covers were equally impressive. I’ll never forget one early-’60s gem where the Scarlet Speedster gets blasted with a fat-ray. In one single 3-figure image, our hero gains 1000 points of ugly flab in a… a… well, a flash! How could any kid possibly see Carmine Infantino’s striking cover without glancing inside? Without a doubt, Julie’s comics had some of the best covers in the business. If, after the fact, he had to contrive a goofy story to go with it, well, so be it! In this instance, Julie assigned scripter John Broome to flesh out that cover. Literally.
“The Day Flash Weighed 1000 Pounds” (The Flash #115, Sept. 1960) was a marvelously silly story. First, Gorilla Grodd blasts Flash with a fat-ray in order to sideline the world’s fastest man. Poor Flash becomes so huge he can barely waddle, much less run. One humiliating scene even shows our hero enduring taunts as a carnival side-show freak. (“Haw! Man! It sure is funny… dressing him up like The Flash!”). Not the most politically-correct crowd. In those pre-Atkins days, it looked like Flash was fated to remain flabby forever.
But then the story gets even sillier! Flash foils Grodd’s diabolical plot by squeezing into a potato-dehydrating room (!) and sweating off the pounds, surrounded by mountains of steaming spuds (!!). Hours later, The Flash emerges thin and trim, ready to mete swift justice to Gorilla Grodd! Funny, I’ve been in lots of steam rooms, but never lost anywhere near 800 pounds. Maybe Flash’s success had something to do with the potatoes? Like I said, the stories were often silly. But the images remain, images that editor Schwartz helped bring to life through spirited plotting sessions with his writers, and cover conferences with his artists. Julie performed the same magic with all his books, whether sci-fi titles like Mystery in Space or super-hero titles like Green Lantern or Justice League of America. And let’s not forget “Strange Sports Stories,” Julie’s experimental sports/sci-fi/fantasy series. What comics-
Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt crazed kid could resist any of them? Julie was able to grab his young readers’ attention because he was himself a science-fiction fan since the ’20s and knew what fans liked. More importantly, Julie actively supported comic fandom in its earliest days. If he hadn’t, you might not be reading this magazine today. You see, without the encouragement and support of pros like Julie Schwartz, it’s unlikely that a young fan named Jerry Bails (helped by an even younger Roy Thomas) would have created Alter-Ego, hyphen and all, way back in 1961. Which is one reason we’re making such a fuss about Julie Schwartz today. When Roy told me about this special issue, I asked Jerry to dug into
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his files and see if he had any rare Julie Schwartz tidbits to share with you. Jerry came through with scans of postcards Julie sent him in the early ’60s. These little notes may not seem like much, but they represent the humble beginnings of comic fandom as we know it, a movement that still thrives half a century later. So in a way these paper scraps from decades past tell their own small Julie Schwartz story. Hey, I know it’s not much of a story, but it’s the best I’ve got. I only wish Julie was still with us. He had a million of ’em! [A tiny sampling of the Julie Schwartz/Jerry Bails correspondence follows below, and on the next three pages.]
POSTCARDS FROM THE EDGE (OF FANDOM) April 1960. Early on, Jerry Bails mailed fan letters to editor Schwartz under a variety of names, hoping to give the idea that there was huge fan support for his favorite comics. What a sneaky guy! Julie’s postcard was in response to a letter of comment written by “Sondra Chambers,” the maiden name of Jerry’s first wife.
July 11, 1960: Long before DC routinely listed creator credits, Bails was digging them up. Compared to other DC staffers, Julie was unusually generous with his information. Jerry states: “My attempts to get similar info from other DC editors was met with ‘All our features are staff-written and produced. — Ed.’ or ‘Sorry, this information is kept confidential.’ It was responses such as these that created my dedication to revealing the names of all creative people in the comics. I’m still working on that. Added about 1000 new credits today.” Jerry’s grand obsession eventually grew into his and Hames Ware’s 1970s project, The Who’s Who of American Comic Books, forerunner of today’s Who’s Who of 20th-Century American Comic Books, which can be accessed online at www.nostromo.no/whoswho/.
Whew! No room for the whole JLA—just this single Sekowsky/Sachs panel of Wonder Woman vs. Superwoman of the Earth-Three Crime Syndicate, from Justice League of America #29 (Aug. 1964). Script by Gardner Fox—and editing, of course, by Julie Schwartz. Thanks to Ethan Roberts. [©2004 DC Comics.]
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Michael T. Gilbert
Sept. 7. 1960. Jerry was having a little fun with his future pal Roy Thomas here. Jerry wrote under the name “Robert Lindsay” and needled Julie about why Roy always got his letters published instead of him! (Roy later made Robert Lindsay the alter ego of a super-hero named, er, Alter Ego, in a 1986 comic book mini-series.)
March 10, 1961: Comics news was hard to get. Julie’s scoop about The Atom’s being revived must have been exciting, indeed!
The 3-10-61 postcard may have been Julie’s way of notifying Jerry of the upcoming “Atom” revival/makeover—but, as recorded in Alter Ego V3#2, Jerry had already heard the news from writer Gardner Fox. Thanks to Mike Barr & Tom Horvitz for sending us photocopies of the original art of Kane/Anderson page from Showcase #35 (Nov.-Dec. 1961), the third tryout issue. [©2004 DC Comics.]
Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt
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June 2, 1961: More hot comic news! And what’s this about some magazine called Alter-Ego?
Nov. 2, 1961: Hey, kids! Remember those great early-’60s Flash/Green Lantern crossovers? Sure you do! But did you know Julie once considered teaming the duo regularly in Showcase? No? Well, according to Jerry, DC “thought briefly about a regular team-up but decided to go with occasional crossovers, which is what we got. I guess the thought was to duplicate the Superman-Batman thingy.”
Well, at least Black Canary managed to best Superwoman in JLA #30 (Sept. 1964)—or so she thinks! Panel from a Sekowsky/Sachs page of original art, courtesy of—who else?—Jerry Bails! [©2004 DC Comics.]
March 18, 1963: When Julie promised Jerry some original Mike Sekowsky art from a Justice League/Justice Society crossover, Jerry got a bit “antsy” waiting for his treasure. Frankly, who wouldn’t have? Jerry recalled: “I had teased Julie earlier saying that I didn’t think he could revive all the JSA as he had the Golden Age Flash—that it just wouldn’t be possible to have all these similar characters in one story. Of course, Julie took up the challenge. He sent me the script first, and then the art, so I was able to see how Mike Sekowsky visualized the script. I gained a great deal of appreciation for Big Mike’s layout skills from this experience. I think Julie loved a challenge. It stimulated his creative juices. When I had lunch with him and Gardner Fox back in early 1961, I could see Julie light up at the thought of putting a twist on a plot idea. He genuinely loved plotting, and he was exceedingly generous with me.”
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Michael T. Gilbert
Michael T. Gilbert, holding a copy of the Mann and Superman graphic novel which he wrote, drew, and colored in 2000.
May 9, 1963: Jerry eventually got the JLA/JSA art that went with his original script. Way to go, Jerry! Talk about a happy ending!
That’s it for now, friends. Next time, look for the conclusion to last issue’s Al Feldstein interview, featuring the inside scoop on his most famous collaboration with Wally Wood, and on Al’s current life as a rancher and painter in the wilds of Montana. ’Til next time—
Missing a Back Issue? Got a hole in your Mr. Monster collection? We’ll gladly e-mail you a free Mr. Monster EEEK-Mail Catalog! Just Contact Michael T. Gilbert at:
mgilbert00@comcast.net
For a printed version, send one dollar to Michael T. Gilbert, P.O. Box 11421, Eugene OR 97440
Title Comic Fandom Archive
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Close Encounters of the Schwartz Kind by Bill Schelly
The Ultimate Fan Despite all those years as an editor of pro comics, it’s my opinion that Julius Schwartz’s greatest contributions were as a fan. He was a fan before he was a pro, and he was a fan while he was a pro, and he remained a fan when, in retirement from DC, he attended hundreds of conventions in the latter part of the twentieth and beginning of the twenty-first centuries. In his professional capacity as editor of a revived Flash, he spurred the Silver Age of Comics, but Schwartz was never completely comfortable taking credit for the idea. Julie told me he wasn’t sure who suggested bringing back The Flash, in that pivotal DC editorial meeting in 1955 or ’56. But there’s no question that he edited Showcase #4 and most of the new incarnations of the All-American heroes of the Justice Society of America, presenting them in high style to a new generation of readers. To me, however, Julie’s role in the formation of comics fandom in 1961 was something entirely his own. It arose from his empathy for
Bill Schelly (left) and Julie Schwartz at the San Diego Comic-Con, summer of 2003—their final face-to-face “encounter.”
those whose interest in comics was no less fervent than his own enthusiasm for science-fiction as a young man. And, as we know, his early support of Jerry Bails inspired the Detroit-based professor to launch something more ambitious than the originally-conceived JLA newsletter: Alter-Ego, a fanzine with a fancy Freudian name and a mission to celebrate nothing less than “comic heroes of the past, present and future.” In those early, formative days of comicdom, Julie was as helpful as he could possibly be to Jerry Bails, Roy Thomas, and others who evinced sincere interest in the DC comics he edited. His decision to publish full addresses in the letter columns in the mags he edited greatly facilitated communication between fans. He sent out original art and scripts, provided scoops for The Comic Reader, and welcomed a parade of well-wishers who turned up at the offices of DC in New York City. Even when he didn’t—in those days—appreciate the comics medium as an art form that might one day tell stories of interest to older readers, he never ridiculed those fans. He later said that doing the letter columns was his favorite part of his job.
(Above—left to right:) A 1938 photo of Julie; sf writer and future comics scribe Otto Binder; and Raymond A. Palmer. The diminutive Palmer, editor at various times of Amazing Stories and other sf pulps, gave Julie his consent to let his name be used for the alter ego of the Silver Age Atom. (Left:) A great action page from The Atom’s third tryout issue—Showcase #35 (Nov.-Dec. 1961)—by the team supreme of Gil Kane (pencils), Murphy Anderson (inks), Gardner Fox (script), and of course Julie Schwartz (editor). Repro’d from photocopies of the original art, courtesy of Mike W. Barr and Tom Horvitz. [Atom page ©2004 DC Comics.]
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Bill Schelly
Close Encounter # 1 I suspect that a lot of the people who will write tributes to Julius Schwartz, in Alter Ego and elsewhere, count themselves as “friends of Schwartz.” I can’t claim that distinction. I didn’t know him that well. When I called him on the phone and he greeted me with a cheery “Hi, kiddo!” he made me feel like a pal, but there were many who knew him much, much better. Nevertheless, Julius Schwartz made a serious impact on my creative life. Our first encounter, which was nightmarish and is recounted in painful detail in my book Sense of Wonder: A Life in Comic Fandom, was when I traveled to New York City in 1973 to try to break into pro comics. It was Julie and Vince Colletta who, upon examining my portfolio for the DC Junior Bullpen, told me I wasn’t ready to become a DC trainee. How different my life might have been had they seen strong potential in my artwork. I might have moved East, roomed with Carl Gafford or Tony Isabella, and ended up with some sort of comic book career. (Instead, I returned to my home in Idaho with my tail between my legs, and ended up moving to Seattle to find work.) For years I harbored a low-level grudge against Julie for his part in my DC rejection (though it was Vince more than Julie who was judging the artists), because I felt I had been given short shrift. It was only when the comic book industry crashed in 1994 that I began to feel that Vince and Julie had done me a left-handed favor. Instead of being an out-ofwork professional artist, I was a gainfully employed financial analyst with a comic book hobby that never stopped being fun.
Close Encounter # 2 My second significant encounter with Julius Schwartz came in 1997 when Roy Thomas and I were compiling our trade paperback Alter Ego: The Best of the Legendary Comics Fanzine. At the San Diego comicon that summer, Julie agreed to sit for a brief interview that would be edited into an introduction for that tome. And so, after a convivial lunch with Julie, Roy, Dann, Gil Kane, and Mike Catron, I cornered Julie in the foyer of the restaurant long enough to tape that interview. There could have been no better, and no more appropriate, introduction to the Alter Ego book than the one that resulted from that chat with Julie.
Close Encounter # 3 My third encounter came out of my second, for when the Alter Ego tome was published and making its appearance at the 1998 San Diego Comic-Con, having been nominated for a Will Eisner award for “Best Comic Book-Related Book,” Julie agreed to help promote it. Chris Foss (of Heroes and Dragons comics shop in Columbia, SC) and I set up a book signing for Julie, Roy, and me, knowing that many would come just for a chance to get Julie or Roy’s autograph on it. But when the day arrived, Julie said, “I don’t think I can make it.” The problem wasn’t that he didn’t want to do the signing. The problem was that it had been set up on the side opposite the cavernous San Diego
Convention Center from his perch in Artists’ Alley, and he wasn’t feeling steady enough on his feet to make the hike. (His arthritis had flared up.) When I offered to find a wheel chair, he at first declined. “I don’t want anyone to see me in a wheel chair,” he said. “How about if I get the chair and have it ready just outside the convention center doors?” I pointed in the direction of those doors, which weren’t far away. “I can wheel you down to the other end, and whisk you to the autograph booth before anyone realizes it’s you. Then I’ll bring you back using the same method.” He thought about that for a moment. Then he smiled. “Okay, Bill. If you’re willing to go to all that trouble, sure.” And that’s exactly what we did. Julie, with the aid of a young friend whose name escapes me, made it to the spot outside the convention doors where I was waiting with the chair, hopped aboard, and off we went. After we re-entered the crowded hall at the other end, was Julie a shrinking violent as we wended our way through the throngs of fans? Just the opposite! “Out of the way!” he barked. “Coming through!” The sea of fans parted, and we moved with remarkable alacrity to the appointed spot. As Julie slid into his seat behind the autograph table, he said, “Now hide that chair so no one sees it. But keep it handy.” That’s how Julie, not feeling his best, was able to make it to that book signing, which will probably always be one of the most memorable moments in my life as a publisher. The sign said, “Comics Legend: Julius Schwartz, Bill Schelly, and Comics Legend: Roy Thomas.” Sharing the spotlight with two comics legends is a fate devoutly to be wished. The fact that Julie was willing to be inconvenienced to be of some help in promoting our book always brings a smile to my face. When the signing was over, and Julie climbed back into the wheel chair, I said, “Back to Artists’ Alley?” It was around 3:30 pm. “No, I have to meet some people for dinner. Let’s go outside and find a shuttle to my hotel.” I left Julie, now risen to full height, about to climb up the stairs to the bus. He turned and gave a little wave. “Thanks, kiddo!” he said, smiling.
Close Encounter # 4 [with special thanks to P.C. Hamerlinck] This encounter began with my need for information about Otto Oscar Binder (1911-1974), who, among many other things, wrote over half of all comics stories featuring Captain Marvel and the rest of The Marvel Family. Beginning in April 1942 with Captain Marvel Adventures #9, and continuing to the death knell of Fawcett’s comics line in 1953, OOB worked with a parade of fine editors to craft Bill’s billing—squeezed between two comics “legends,” on the placard if not at the table. (Left to right:) Julie, Bill, and Roy autograph copies of Roy & Bill’s book Alter Ego: The Best of the Legendary [there’s that word again!] Comics Fanzine at the 1998 San Diego Comic-Con.
Close Encounters of the Schwartz Kind
39 was killed in a car accident, and it just snapped him. And his wife developed mental problems and wound up in an institution. It was a terrible tragedy. BS: When did you meet Otto? SCHWARTZ: In the 1930s, probably, oh… 1935. I drove across the country with him twice, along with Mort Weisinger and maybe one other person. BS: How would you describe his personality?
(Above—left to right:) Conrad Ruppert, Julie Schwartz, Otto Binder, Charles Hornig, Jack Darrow, and Mort Weisinger, circa the late 1930s. (Right:) In the late 1930s, Otto Binder (left) and Julie Schwartz (center) took a road trip or two west to visit fellow science-fiction fans. At right in this photo taken in L.A. is a young Forrest J. Ackerman, future editor of the influential 1950s-60s magazine Famous Monsters of Filmland. Both photos from the Julie Schwartz Collection.
scripts that put the Marvels (and many other Fawcett heroes) through their extraordinary paces. But who, really, was Otto Binder? What sort of person was he? How did he come to write for comic books? How did the whimsical tone of those stories evolve? Though I joined comics fandom in mid-1964, I never had the good fortune to meet Otto Binder. So, when I decided to write a biography of the man, the only way I could get to know Otto “personally” was through friends, colleagues, and family members still alive in 2002. And I soon learned that no one knew Otto as long, or probably as closely, as Julius Schwartz. But would the “Living Legend” of comics help? And if so, how much? I phoned Julie on June 23, 2002. I wasn’t too nervous because of our past history, though I didn’t know how my proposed book would strike him. Here’s an excerpt of our conversation about Otto and the book that would be titled Words of Wonder: The Life and Times of Otto Binder, from a transcription by Brian K. Morris: BILL SCHELLY: I’m working on a book about Otto Binder. JULIE SCHWARTZ: A book about Otto? Really? Who’s going to publish it? BS: I will, through my Hamster Press company. SCHWARTZ: Do you think there’s an audience for it? I mean, it’s a wonderful idea, but how well would it sell? BS: I want to do it because I feel that, first of all, writers rarely get the attention in the comics field that artists do. And second, I think Otto’s contributions to science-fiction fandom, the comics industry, and comics fandom merit an in-depth treatment. I don’t know what kind of sales I can expect, but I’m sure there are enough people out there to support a nice book, if it’s done right. SCHWARTZ: I guess you would know better than I. BS: Since you knew Otto Binder well, I was wondering if you could give me your thoughts... your impressions of him as a man, because I can’t form my own, first-hand. He’s gone. But you knew him. SCHWARTZ: I know he had a great tragedy in his life. His daughter
SCHWARTZ: Otto was a mild-mannered guy, essentially. Very quiet. A real family man. He met his wife, Ione, in Chicago, and in due time they got married, and moved to New Jersey. We stopped in Chicago and met Otto’s family. I have some photos of them sitting on the front porch of their house. BS: Those pictures would be fantastic for the book. SCHWARTZ: Well, they’re in my scrapbook, and there’s no way I’m going to send you my book. But maybe I could detach some of the pages and bring them in to DC and get some scans of them made. I have quite a few, I think. Otto, his family, his brother Jack, and pictures when he was dating Ione. Also Otto at the World Science Fiction Convention. BS: Wow! That’s the kind of stuff where, you know, I’d almost be willing to fly to New York and help you copy the pages! [laughs] SCHWARTZ: You know, when I read Alter Ego, all the artwork is nice, but I always like photos of the people involved. I like to see what people looked like in the various stages of their career, maybe his family. I’m interested in the person, more than the product. BS: Well, with this book, I don’t just want to write about all the great stories Otto wrote for Fawcett, DC and so on. I want to show what made him tick, a little about his life, and I want to get the feel for him as a person. And I want to run as many photos as I can. SCHWARTZ: I’m sure I can find some way to help you out. [NOTE: Julie was as good as his word. With the help of Mark Chiarello at DC, a dozen key photographs were scanned for Words of Wonder.] BS: Otto wrote for you when you were editing DC’s science-fiction comics in the 1950s, right? How would you describe him as a writer? Would you say he would turn in something that needed very little editing? SCHWARTZ: You said it there. When Otto or I plotted a story, he went home and wrote it, delivered it on time, very little editing, and that was it. BS: Was he always full of ideas? SCHWARTZ: He could be, but when I think of Otto, I think of him less as an originator, and more as a great “continuer.” He didn’t originate Captain Marvel, as you know… but he brought out the character’s potential. Same with Superman when he wrote for Mort Weisinger in the 1950s. BS: How would you rank him or evaluate him as a science-fiction writer?
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Bill Schelly and stay at the Holiday Inn in Westwood, mainly because we would visit Gil Kane and Harlan Ellison and Ray Bradbury and Forry Ackerman. This story takes place about 1990, something like that. I was coming out of the hotel, walking down to get a newspaper or something, and there I see a person coming towards me. And I stopped short and she stopped short. It was Dorothy! Here she is, of all people, at that precise time— Dorothy Woolfolk! We hugged each other and kissed. It was just fantastic. BS: What are the odds? That’s amazing. A handwritten note from Julie that accompanied materials he generously loaned Bill for the latter’s book on Otto Binder—and an early-’60s photo of OOB, which first appeared in Alter Ego (Vol. 1) #9, 1965.
SCHWARTZ: That shows that you never know what’s going to happen in life. Nearly all of Julius Schwartz’s observations about Otto Binder, during this interview and subsequent phone conversations, ended up in Words of Wonder. While Julie’s memory wasn’t always reliable, I found that, as I put events together, I could jog his memory and then some other tidbit of Binderana would be forthcoming.
Working together on the Binder book gave me the closest idea of what it would have been like to work with Julie as a comic book editor. It was an experience I’ll always treasure. SCHWARTZ: It’s hard to describe. You know the expression “Old Reliable”? If Otto had to write a story, it came in on time. He was not a great writer, but a very good writer. He was a meat-and-potatoes writer in his science-fiction days. He wasn’t one of those brilliant novas. If you had to rank him from one to ten, he would be about a seven or eight. His “I, Robot” influenced [Isaac] Asimov, you know. BS: But aside from your professional relationship with Otto, you were always friends, too. SCHWARTZ: Mort, Otto, and I were extremely close, especially in the late 1930s when we were single and living in New York City. We hung out together all the time. We played marathon bridge games, with Mort’s brother Eddie making the fourth. There was a time in the 1940s when we sort-of lost touch, but then Otto returned to DC in the middle 1950s, and our friendship continued as if it had never been interrupted. This went on even later—like, for one of Mort’s birthdays in the 1960s, Otto invited Mort and his wife, and me and my wife, out to his house in Jersey… and I remember we played Bridge until two o’clock in the morning. [laughs] We were real bridge fanatics. BS: He and Ione were also pretty close to Bill and Dorothy Woolfolk, I understand.
The only downbeat note is that I never did hear what Julie thought of the finished book. I sent him a copy “hot off the press” in late November 2003, and he acknowledged receipt of it, but said, “It’s a handsome book, but my eyesight isn’t what it used to be so it will take me some time to read it. But I will, and I’ll let you know what I think.” It didn’t happen. I became pre-occupied with family matters over the holiday season. After the first of the year, I began calling Julie. I never got through. Then came the chilling moment when I saw (I think it was on Mark Evanier’s website) that Julie was in the hospital with pneumonia. I was never again to speak with this man who meant so much to the science-fiction and comic book fields. I guess it underscores the last thing he’d said in that initial interview: “You never know what’s going to happen in life.” Julie’s passing has changed the very shape of our fannish world. He meant so much to fandom, in so many ways, that his absence will be well and truly felt. The unthinkable has happened: he’ll never haunt Artists’ Alley or appear on a panel at future San Diego cons. The “living legend” is living no more. But the “legend” lives on. As long as fandom endures, the bemused, avuncular spirit of Julie Schwartz will be hovering nearby. One more reason for true believers to shout, “Comic Fandom Forever!”
SCHWARTZ: That’s right. Did you know Woolfolk is going to be a guest at the San Diego Comic-Con this year? BS: No, that’s great. Maybe I can interview him right there. [NOTE: As it happened I was able to interview Woolfolk by telephone some time before the convention.] SCHWARTZ: You definitely should talk to Bill Woolfolk about Otto. Hey, that reminds me of an almost unbelievable story about his wife, Dorothy [formerly Roubicek]. When I used to go to San Diego, after the con we’d go back into Los Angeles
[Words of Wonder: The Life and Times of Otto Binder is available at www.billschelly.com, or by sending $21.00 to Hamster Press, PO Box 27471, Seattle, WA 98165.] Two friends, colleagues, and often collaborators. Each deserved a book about himself—and each got one, early in the 21st century. [Covers ©2004 the respective copyright holders; characters on covers TM & © DC Comics.]
In Memoriam
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Carrie Nodell
(1919-2004) The Green Lantern Corps Loses a Charter Member by Bill Black Sunday is the slowest day at MegaCon 2004, so I make a point of spending most of it with Mart Nodell at his Green Lantern table. As I walk up, I see Marty centered behind his tables, drawing board leaning into his mid-section, seated in his wheelchair. Behind him, ever his backstop, is son Spence, readily supplying his father with Green Lantern memorabilia to autograph. To Marty’s right is Carrie Nodell—now, too, seated in a wheelchair, but always his right-hand lieutenant. I slip into a chair beside Marty before he notices my approach. Then, as if he has expected me to be there all along, he immediately launches into banter with me, not unlike a Bing Crosby/Bob Hope routine. Behind us, Spence laughs at our repartee. Marty lights up when he sees me, somehow enjoying our convention visits. After a few moments, we notice that Carrie is gone. Spence steps out from behind the table where his mother’s chair was but finds nothing but the shawl, draped across her lap earlier, now abandoned on the floor. It’s as if Carrie has been transported out of the convention center. The mystery is soon resolved when we see a lady friend wheeling Carrie back from a visit to the ladies’ room. The three of us laugh at this, never realizing that, some six weeks later, Carrie will be gone again. As everyone reading this magazine knows, Mart Nodell created The Green Lantern in 1940. For many years, Marty has toured the country, moving from comic con to comic con, celebrating that creation. Always at his side was his wife, Carrie Nodell. Boy, was she proud of her husband! All of us married cartoonists yearn for the support and understanding of our spouse. Few of us, if any, receive the glowing adoration that Carrie bestowed upon Mart. In honor of his creation, she almost always wore green outfits. None could pass by their table who wasn’t shown the Green Lantern ring her husband had custom-made for her finger. Cheerful, always smiling, Carrie made every visitor welcome to their table. Of course, as age advanced, she had her problems and would share them with those of us who had known her for years. Yet, to fans and customers, she beamed brightly, as if she were always at full-charge from the power lantern. The Nodells are known to convention attendees from coast to coast, but the touring actually started in Central Florida. After they moved to West Palm Beach, Florida, Jim Ivey, at the time head honcho of the OrlandoCon, invited Marty as a guest in 1981. Since I, along with Mike Kott, was a co-sponsor of the convention, I was privy to the inside track with our featured guests. Green Lantern was always my favorite Golden Age character, so I was drawn to Mart Nodell like a moth to a flame. We hit it off right from the start, and since he was invited back to the Ocon year after year, we became buddies. Ocon appearances led to Marty being invited to the Chicago Con… then Pittsburgh… New York… San Diego… on and on. For over twenty years the traveling Nodells reveled in their third career (comics, advertising, and conventions). Always at Marty’s side was Carrie. Carrie Nodell was born March 3, 1919. She was 85 when she died on April 25, 2004. She is survived by two sons (Mitchell and Spencer), six
Carrie, Marty, and friend, a few years back.
grandchildren, two great-grandchildren, and hundreds of friends of The Green Lantern, most of whom she knew by name, from one side of the country to the other. My associate editor, Mark Heike, adds these comments: “There wasn’t anyone in comics—fan, pro, or dealer—that didn’t know Carrie Nodell, or so it seemed. She always had a kind word and a smile for everyone. In recent years, she confided that the travel and stress of convention after convention was getting tough on her; yet, at every show, she always seemed to be the first person in the dealers’ room in the morning, and the last one out when it closed at night. If the comic book industry ever had a better ‘unofficial ambassador’ than Carrie Nodell, I don’t know who it would be.” A few years ago, Spence moved from the North to be in West Palm with his parents and to travel with them to all conventions. Also in recent years, longtime comics fan and convention host Keith Mallow and his wife Monica have helped in running errands in Spence’s absence and in creating Internet sales for the Nodells’ livelihood. Spence asked Keith to give the eulogy at Carrie’s funeral, which included these remembrances: “Whenever Carrie entered a room at a show with Marty and Spencer, she would throw her shoulders back, hold her head up high, and walk into that room as if to say silently (or sometimes not so silently), ‘The Nodells are here!’ She was so proud of Marty! She had a smile that would light up a room! It was a smile of joy and love and appreciation, and we were all drawn to its embrace. “To remember Carrie with tears would be an injustice to her memory. She was full of life, love, excitement, and looked forward to every show because of the chance to see old friends and meet new people, and of course to sell! She loved to sell! At this moment, God has forked over his last $10 because of her irresistible charm! She will be missed, but she filled our lives with so much joy and love, she will never truly be gone.” Carrie was married to Marty for over 63 years. In my mind’s eye I can picture Carrie rolling past St. Peter, chucking aside her wheelchair and rushing from the Pearly Gates to set up a table at that great dealers’ room in the sky. I look forward to that future day when I can again drop by for a friendly chat. [Bill Black is an artist, and is also the publisher of AC Comics.]
42
In Memoriam
Mrs. Lillian Drake
Lillian and Arnold Drake were married in 1951. He was still at NYU (New York University) on the G.I. Bill (World War II Battle of the Bulge, three Combat Stars) and starting to write pulp mysteries and comic books. She wrote for Max Liebman, creator/producer of The Sid Caesar Show (a.k.a. Your Show of Shows), with a staff of such kids as Carl Reiner, Mel Brooks, Neil “Doc” Simon, and Doc’s brother Danny.
In 1953 they had a delayed but extended honeymoon (6 months) in England, Ireland, Denmark, France, Spain, and Italy, during which he completed a mystery novel, The Steel Noose. She typed the manuscript, corrected his creative spelling, and offered solid criticisms. “Lil was always my first editor,” quoth he. She was also his chief assistant when he wrote and co-produced the film The Flesh Eaters. Together they did original scripts and sketches at parties. She loved music (symphonic, operatic, and pop), the graphic arts (went to Pratt Institute, and at age 12 did a portrait of her father that is truly astounding), and literature. Top of her list were Twain, Dickens, and the Bronte sisters. A very early Civil Rights fighter (long before it was chic), she was also a red-hot women’s-rights activist. Arnold joined her at both, as well as at noisy Vietnam War demonstrations. (His service under General Patton had convinced him that war is not good for living things.) For their sterling citizenship, they earned three visits from the FBI. They had a running argument as to which of them had a bigger file in J. Edgar Hoover’s office.
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Lillian and Arnold Drake.
As a volunteer in the Public Relations office of the United Nations, Lillian earned a silver medallion. But her greatest pride was in her daughter Pamela (who can be heard playing guitar and singing her own songs in NYC coffee bars) and twin 8-year-old granddaughters, Anastasia and Tatiana. Anastasia’s poem “100 Is a Lot” is included in this year’s Young American Poets. When we paid our condolences, Arnold responded, “Lillian lives!”
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44
Marc Swayze face…” and so on. She was referring to her determination to “be somebody” in the entertainment world.
By
mds& logo ©2004 Marc Swayze; Captain Marvel © & TM 2004 DC Comics] (c) [Art
[FCA EDITORS NOTE: From 1941-53, Marcus D. Swayze was a top artist for Fawcett Comics. The very first Mary Marvel character sketches came from Marc’s drawing table, and he illustrated her earliest adventures, including the classic origin story “Captain Marvel Introduces Mary Marvel” (CMA #18, Dec. ’42); but he was primarily hired by Fawcett Publications to illustrate Captain Marvel stories and covers for Whiz Comics and Captain Marvel Adventures. He also wrote many Captain Marvel scripts, and continued to do so while in the military. After leaving the service in 1944, Marc made an arrangement with Fawcett to produce art and stories for them on a freelance basis out of his Louisiana home. There he created both art and story for The Phantom Eagle in Wow Comics, in addition to drawing the Flyin’ Jenny newspaper strip for the Bell Syndicate (created by his friend and mentor Russell Keaton). After the cancellation of Wow, Swayze produced artwork for Fawcett’s top-selling line of romance comics. After the company ceased publishing comics, Marc moved over to Charlton Publications, where he ended his comics career in the mid-’50s. Marc’s ongoing professional memoirs have been FCA’s most popular feature since his first column appeared in FCA #54, 1996. Last issue, Marc reflected upon the talent—with names like Keaton, Raboy, and Beck—that surrounded him during the Golden Age of Comics. This time, Marc speaks of his admiration for the determination and hard work of Raboy, Beck… and singer Bing Crosby. —P.C. Hamerlinck.] It’s surprising, the number of cases where people, already established in high places of achievement, have held sincere regard for ... HARD WORK. “Hard work,” the expression, is used here in the sense of effort—physical or mental—toward a fixed goal. There seems to have existed among those individuals a refusal to just sit back and wait for things to happen. For example, movie queen Joan Crawford was once heard in a TV interview telling of her struggle for attention as a young actress. “Before going to bed each night I would apply various skin treatments to my
That was it... special effort... motivated by a spirit of determination. I saw it close at hand in the ’40s during a stint as accompanist for Bing Crosby during the Second World War. There was a performance where the singer was accepting random requests from the large audience. Among the tunes was the theme from one of the “Road” movies Bing had made with Bob Hope. The melody featured an unusual tag toward the end, and as we neared it, Bing, not certain I was familiar with it, turned to me and, singing all the while, added: “Watch it right here!” There was obviously no intention to exclude the audience. The light chuckle that spread through the auditorium indicated they understood... and were amused. It was Bing’s way. You could have occupied the most remote seat in the house and still felt that you were right up on stage with him. And stashed away in his mind were the words and music, with appropriate keys and tempos, of just about any song you’d want to hear. It was a custom begun perhaps even before his days as member of a vocal trio with the Paul Whitman Orchestra... a resolve to stay abreast of the popular song field. It is a nice memory ... having known and worked with Bing Crosby. Behind that outward manner of careless indifference, he was all business. Given a unique baritone voice to begin with, and a natural feel for melodic rhythm, he provided a will to succeed. The story of his career is a distinct example of that special effort... that spirit of determination... so evident in the lives of show business stars. It was seen in other professions as well... Golden Age comics, for instance. Mac Raboy... that flawless art style... it didn’t “just happen.” He made it happen! He bolstered his boyhood talent for drawing and the training received in a WPA art class by turning his attention to a definite style and technique to emulate... and followed that with intensive study and practice. Mac Raboy knew the meaning of effort... determination... of hard work! And there was C.C. Beck, proponent of simplified comic book pictorial storytelling.
Marc Swayze, on guitar, accompanies Bing Crosby during the WWII years (this photo has previously appeared both in Alter Ego/FCA and in P.C. Hamerlinck’s book Fawcett Companion)—and two Mary Marvel drawings from the Swayze sketchbook. [Art ©2004 Marc Swayze; Mary Marvel TM & ©2004 DC Comics.]
We Didn’t Know... It Was The Golden Age
45
On one of our last visits he proudly displayed his most recent tuning of the guitar. Beck had spent years with the instrument, never satisfied that there wasn’t a better than the standard way of tuning it. An arrangement of the strings, he insisted, that would permit learning it “without all that practice and those sore fingertips!” It was never achieved, of course, but it amounted to another case where a down-toearth goal was established, and pursued through determined effort. It was not unlikely that there was a similar attitude toward his first comic book assignment back in late 1939... a book full of heroes led by “Captain Thunder,” as created by writer Bill Parker. Before Beck, the artist, set to work, Beck, the strategist of practical mind, formulated a reasonable goal and a course of action. The goal: to meet the deadline. The procedure: an art style to make it possible within the time allowed. The practical mind at work! Beck... Raboy... Crosby... and others... each a career wherein a talent seems to have been acknowledged and appreciated as a gift... for which something was due in return... effort... and, if you want to call it that... “hard work.” Could there have been a code among those gift-holders... a vow, perhaps, to be better at it... better today than yesterday... better tomorrow than today? [Marc will return next issue with more memories from the Golden Age of Comics.]
COMICS’ GOLDEN AGE LIVES AGAIN!
©2004 AC Comics
Three drawings from Marc’s caricature file, done in 1941. At heart Beck was a [Left to right:] artists C.C. Beck (co-creator of Captain craftsman... an inventor... Marvel) and Mac Raboy (Captain Marvel Jr. illustrator an artisan with the supreme) and Irwin Weill (a layout artist for other Fawcett practical mind of a skilled magazines, though not the comics)—juxtaposed with technician. A favorite vintage art by Beck and Raboy. [©2004 Marc Swayze.] hobby during his retirement years was fashioning unbelievably realistic replicas of ancient weapons from lightweight paperboard. Both subject and medium must have required considerable research and experimenting.
COMMANDO YANK BLACK TERROR AVENGER PHANTOM LADY CAT-MAN DAREDEVIL CRIMEBUSTER CAPTAIN FLASH MR. SCARLET SPY SMASHER SKYMAN STUNTMAN THE OWL BULLETMAN FIGHTING YANK PYROMAN GREEN LAMA THE EAGLE IBIS The Original GHOST RIDER The above is just a partial list of characters that have appeared in AC Comics’ reprint titles such as MEN OF MYSTERY, GOLDEN AGE GREATS, and AMERICA’S GREATEST COMICS. Virtually all issues published to date are available at $6.95 each. To find over 100 quality Golden Age reprints, go to the AC Comics website at <accomics.com>. AC COMICS Box 521216 Longwood FL 32752 Please add $1.50 postage & handling per order.
46
A Man Named “Julie” A Half Dozen Fawcett Collectors Remember the Late DC Comics Editor because there “weren’t enough readers,” but surely his battles with Beck and his admitted lack of affection for the character didn’t help matters.
Edited by P.C. Hamerlinck [NOTE: The name of the individual writers below, each of whom has contributed before to FCA, appears before his reminiscence.]
JOHN COCHRAN
When a magazine fails, Schwartz noted, it’s because a reader who picks it up doesn’t like it. But the question of why a character that was so enormously successful in the ’40s—and briefly eclipsed even Superman—didn’t catch on in the ’70s, went unanswered.
Julie Schwartz died Feb. 8th of this year, and the accolades continue to rain down.
I met Julie Schwartz twice. Both encounters were brief, but I’ll never forget them.
Surely Schwartz is justly credited with reviving The Flash in concert with Carmine Infantino, as well as Green Lantern and The Atom. However, when it comes to Fawcett’s Captain Marvel, it looks like he dropped the ball and didn’t even want the World’s Mightiest Mortal passed to him. DC revived the character in the 1970s under Schwartz’s watch. In several telephone interviews with me before he died, he said he “would have liked to make changes [with the character], but I was told to keep it the old way.” The legendary DC editor also said it was a little hard to recall the particulars 30 years later. He did say that he had never been particularly taken with Captain Marvel, although he also acknowledged that he never saw much merit in DC’s suit with Fawcett. “I never regarded him [Captain Marvel] as a copy of Superman,” he said, adding that the whole Captain Marvel mythos was “so far afield” from Superman that he just “couldn’t see” the basis for the charge DC leveled against Fawcett.
During the early 1980s, I worked at the Chicago office of Capital City Distribution (back when Diamond Comics Distributors had some competition). One of the highlights of working for Capital was the annual after-hours party at the Chicago Comicon (prior to its being acquired by Wizard). At one of these gatherings, my self-appointed job was making sure Julie never went without a beverage in his hand. He would get my attention with a royal wave of his hand when it was time for a refill.
(Above:) John Cochran—and a C.C. Beck panel from Shazam! #1 (Feb. 1973). Script by Dennis O’Neil. [Art ©2004 DC Comics.]
During our conversations, Schwartz mentioned that he had a file of correspondence with C.C. Beck, some of which I gather was rather testy. Schwartz offered to share it with me on behalf of Alter Ego and FCA, providing DC gave its permission. However, DC said, in essence, no way, Jose. “I don’t want him to turn around in his grave,” Schwartz said of Beck in recounting their stormy relationship. “I wasn’t going to let Beck control it [DC’s Shazam! book]. He started to rewrite some of the stories. It was very difficult…. ” Schwartz said Shazam! had failed
WALT GROGAN
“Mr. Julius Mod Togs for Man and Beast.” Though editor Julie made a cameo appearance in the Beck-drawn Shazam! #7, the two pros never really got along. [©2004 DC Comics.]
My second “adventure” with Julie was also at the Chicago Comicon, during a DC Comics panel. I was sitting near the front of the audience near an end of the row, and I saw Julie looking for a seat. I couldn’t believe nobody was inviting Julie to sit down. I shouted over to him to sit with me and he graciously accepted. What a thrill! In later years, I would see Julie walking around the convention, but he always had an entourage and I felt a little awkward busting in. But I always had to chuckle to myself when I saw him, because he, a man who loved the ladies, inevitably sought out a cute “B” movie queen or booth babe for a hug and a peck on the cheek. My first introduction to Julie was an anonymous one, and I imagine it was similar to those of other fans that grew up in the 1960s. I was an avid and satisfied reader of the Schwartz-edited Justice League of America. Every hero looked like he over-dosed on Beef-aRoni, and even Wonder Woman was more full-bodied than in her regular book! I loved “big” Mike Sekowsky’s
A Man Named “Julie”
47 So thank you, Julie Schwartz. Thank you for the Silver Age Flash and Green Lantern, the Justice League of America, and The Atom. Thank you for the re-energized Batman and Superman and all the other heroes you resuscitated. But most of all, thank you for being one of the guiding hands that brought Captain Marvel out of obscurity and back to life.
DON ENSIGN I read comic books before I discovered the DC Schwartz-edited line. However, it was his comics that spurred me into becoming a dedicated comic book reader and collector. art. Gardner Fox’s stories were full of fun and adventure, and my favorite JLA stories were, of course, the annual JLA/JSA teamups. Julie was masterful in kickstarting the Silver Age by reinventing the Golden Age for a new generation of readers, and I came in on that cusp. It was Julie’s connection to the past, evident in those annual team-ups, which sparked my interest in learning more about the heroes of the Golden Age.
January 1962: The first Schwartz-edited comic I encountered was Flash #127 (March 1962). I was distinctly unimpressed with it. It was a Gorilla Grodd story with strong evolutionary overtones. Even as a young teenager, my budding creationist instincts were beginning to blossom. About the same time, I bought Justice League of America #10. I found myself entranced with this super-hero group, and especially one character called Green Lantern.
(Above:) Walt Grogan—and the ad that excited him back in 1972. Photo by Jeanne Lewis Grogan. [Art ©2004 DC Comics.]
I remember begging my dad to buy me the paperback edition of Dick Lupoff and Don Thompson’s All in Color for a Dime, a collection of essays reminiscing about the heroes of the Golden Age. I was particularly captivated with Lupoff’s essay titled “The Big Red Cheese,” and a certain Alter Ego editor’s essay “Captain Billy’s Whiz Gang!” Dick’s and Roy Thomas’ essays were instrumental in igniting my interest in The Marvel Family. There was just something about their descriptions of Captain Marvel and the rest of the Fawcett heroes that sang to me. So, in late 1972, when I picked up an issue of DC’s anthology comic Wanted!, it was the house ad therein that gave me my money’s worth for my two dimes. The ad read, “Coming in December… DC’s Christmas Gift to You! … Watch Out Superman! Here comes the ‘Original Captain Marvel!’” The art on the ad was by Cap’s co-creator, C.C. Beck. I was excited! Say what you will about the Schwartzedited Shazam! comic. I was grateful that DC and Julie had broken Beck out of retirement and Captain Marvel was back on the racks. And although I wasn’t fond of some of the early Shazam! stories, it came a glorious full circle for me when the entire Marvel Family and other Fawcett heroes were able to join the Justice League and Justice Society in the pages of JLA. Superman and Cap had finally, officially met!
February 20, 1962: Two important things happened that day. John Glenn became the first American to orbit the Earth … and I purchased my first issue of Green Lantern (#12, April 1962). While I thought ‘Green Lantern’ was an odd name for a super-hero, I found his specialty intriguing: a super-weapon called a power ring. I quickly became a Green Lantern fan. March 1962: I purchased my first issue of Mystery in Space (#75, May 1962). This issue—with its beautiful novel-length “Adam Strange” story—won the Alley Award for best comic book story of the year. During this time I was definitely getting hooked on comics, and the Schwartz-edited variety played a huge part.
May 1965: I wrote a letter of comment regarding Green Lantern #37, which was printed in the pivotal #40 (Oct. 1965—the “hand of God” issue). I wrote, “Since Green Lantern’s original power ring was obliterated in the second story, the mage Myrwhydden (GL #27) who was held captive inside the ring was consequently annihilated in the blast. Another aspect of this incident will reveal itself in Don Ensign (seen in self-portrait) mentions just about the inability of GL to peer into the past of every comic Julie Schwartz ever edited except the original ring-wielder, Abin Sur. This Shazam!—so here’s the cover of one of Captain Marvel’s was a high price to pay for even such a first-ever team-ups with his once-nemesis Superman, on the cover of issue #15 (Dec. 1974). Cover art by great story.” In his editor’s comment, the Bob Oksner & Tex Blaisdell. Old copies of Shazam! wily Schwartz countered with, “When the are a great source of 1940s/early-’50s Fawcett Marvel Guardians presented Green Lantern with Family stories, most of which have never been that power ring replacement, it was a reprinted anywhere else. [Ensign art ©2004 perfect duplicate of the original—even to Don Ensign; Shazam! art ©2004 DC Comics.]
48
A Half-Dozen Fawcett Collects Remember the Late DC Comics Editor themselves!
retaining Abin Sur’s ‘past’ and the imprisoned Myrwhydden.” Ah, the power of a comic book editor!
August 14, 1998 (San Diego ComicCon): For those there—who can forget the triumphant entry of John Broome to the In the early Golden Age panel? 1970s I moved to Broome arrived to a Southern standing ovation, California. with many fans and Several years after professionals arriving, I John G. Pierce, cheering him. Julie attended the first flanked by the covers was on the panel that of many annual of Shazam! #2 & 3. day to welcome San Diego Comic[Art ©2004 Broome—his best Cons. I was DC Comics.] friend and the best present at many man at his wedding. panels where Julie The atmosphere was Schwartz held electric that day. I taped and photographed the event and later ran a forth, sharing numerous anecdotes about his many years in the industry. transcription of it in It’s A Fanzine #48. July 1995: I wrote the following in my apa-zine about the Golden and Silver Age panel: “A real highlight was after this panel’s conclusion, March 27, 2004: Len Wein and Marv Wolfman hosted a panel at the when Nate Butler and Dave Porta encouraged me to show my Emerald recent Planet Comicon in Overland Park, Missouri. One question that came from the audience: “What is your favorite Julie Schwartz story?” Light book (Green Lantern index) to Julius Schwartz and Gil Kane. I Marv Wolfman immediately replied, “We are all here in this room today felt like a fumbling fanboy shoving the book into their hands. I really because of Julie Schwartz.” Perhaps that best explains the influence of didn’t think they would be particularly interested, as many professionals one man. A man who hung in there over the long haul and achieved in the field perceive comics as just a job and not so much a passion as great things. He certainly helped create fandoms in science-fiction and many fans do. However, to my surprise, they responded favorably to the comics, as well as re-invigorating an ailing comic book industry in the book and complimented me on it. They really enjoyed seeing their New Frontier era. pictures in the “Creative Personnel” section. They were still fans at heart We owe you a lot, Julius Schwartz.
JOHN G. PIERCE Although I was not to meet him in person until the late 1990s, Julius Schwartz actually came into my life forty years earlier, as the editor of my favorite comic books. I’d been reading and enjoying comics since roughly 1955, but it was those late-’50s/early-’60s books of his which really captured my imagination and propelled it forward. His titles seemed so much better than the increasingly formulaic works of other editors such as Weisinger and Schiff. And Julie had letter-columns which were almost as intriguing as the stories themselves … letter-columns which served as my first introduction to that wonderful world of comics, later to be named the Golden Age, which had started before I was born and had passed away before I was old enough to read. It was in those pages that I first learned of earlier versions of The Flash and Green Lantern, first encountered strange and exotic hero names such as Hourman, Hawkman, The Atom, Dr. Fate, The Spectre, Dr. Mid-Nite, and others. It was also in those letter-columns that I first encountered the names of such folks as Roy Thomas and Jerry Bails, who would soon loom large in the consciousness of many fans. It was Julius Schwartz who gave me—yes, gave me—my first Golden Age comic, a copy of All-Star Comics #24, which he had found lying around his office. It was Julie who patiently typed out answers to the questions this young fan had about both the comics which had gone before and the ones which he was working on currently. It was Julie who gave me my first look at original art, when he presented me with some Infantino Flash originals. In short, he fanned the fires of fannish enthusiasm in me, paving the way for the fanzines, which would soon take up the task of attempting
A Man Named “Julie”
become silly, in his estimation. When Beck did the unprecedented, and returned two scripts un-illustrated, he was no longer artist on the book. To the credit of all involved, they did attempt a later rapprochement, with Beck writing a story of his own (see “The Marvel Family Battle Evil Incarnate,” AE V3#7/FCA #66). But heavy editing by E. Nelson Bridwell (a Capfan in his youth) caused Beck to realize that working with DC would be impossible for him. He withdrew himself from further consideration on the title.
C.C. Beck had kind words for these Elliot Maggin and Denny O’Neil stories he drew for Shazam! #2-3. [©2004 DC Comics.]
to sate my appetite for knowledge of the comics, especially the Golden Age. (Schwartz is responsible even for that, as his printing of a letter of mine in The Flash led to my receiving Alter-Ego #1 from Dr. Jerry Bails in 1961.) But the years passed. I graduated from high school, went off to college, received a bachelor’s degree, entered the job market as a teacher, and was married. And while I never lost my interest in comics, other concerns eclipsed them. It was not until a year or two after my 1969 graduation that I was able to settle down and concentrate on them again. In the interim, though, I had selected a new favorite: the original Captain Marvel and Family. And it was not long after I began collecting Fawcetts that word came that DC would be reviving Captain Marvel, under Julie’s editorship. While excited about the news, I was also concerned. Could DC do justice by Cap? And, though I was glad that my favorite editor of yore would be editing Shazam!, I also had to wonder if he was up to the task. The humorous, whimsical Captain Marvel was several steps removed from the science-fiction world where Schwartz normally operated. Certainly, at first, things looked good. C. C. Beck, with whom I began a correspondence around that time, was initially somewhat enthusiastic, both about the more adventurous lead stories written by Denny O’Neil and the imaginative back-ups by Elliott Maggin. There would be the Sunny Sparkle story, about a boy who is so cute that people keep giving him things (Shazam! #2). Or the one in which Billy requests that old Shazam turn him into an adult as Billy—with the side effect that Captain Marvel becomes a teen (Shazam! #3). As Beck commented to me, “Even Otto Binder never came up with a story like this!” But Beck’s enthusiasm quickly turned sour as the stories, intended to be humorous, began to
49
Since editors in those days wielded great power, it was natural to blame Schwartz, about whom I have since read contradictory statements: one, that he had enthusiastically requested the title, but two, that he really didn’t like Captain Marvel and didn’t want to do it. Moreover, he later admitted that he did not get along well with Beck. Since both E. Nelson Bridwell, who’d made the first statement, and Schwartz himself, who made the second two, are both gone, it is difficult to determine which was actually the case, though I’m more inclined to credit Schwartz’s appraisal of the situation here. (Beck regarded Schwartz as “an old fossil” and a “senile old fool,” so clearly there was no love lost between the two.) Not that it matters much now. Whether he initially wanted to do the title or not, Shazam! ended up being regarded by Julie himself as one of the lowlights of his career. And it is obvious that he would done it differently, except for publishing dictates to try to imitate the Fawcett material—lending some credence to my long-time thesis that folks at DC likely had read Steranko’s History of the Comics, Vol. 2, and wanted to recapture what had been written about therein. But Schwartz’s belief was that “you can’t stand still.” Still, let’s look at the positive side. The
Early days in the DC offices—1972. (Left to right:) production head Sol Harrison… C.C. Beck… Julie. At right is the first product of their efforts: Shazam! #1 (Feb. 1973). [Art ©2004 DC Comics.]
50
A Half-Dozen Fawcett Collects Remember the Late DC Comics Editor
title brought C. C. Beck back into the world of comics, albeit briefly. More importantly, it brought him into the world of fandom, to which he would remain a contributor for most of the rest of his life. The title brought Kurt Schaffenberger back to characters he had loved and illustrated years earlier, even though he later confessed that he didn’t think it would work, that it “was just too much déjà vu.” Shazam! brought regular Golden Age reprints into the market, in a small sense paving the way for the day when they would be published in more durable formats. For some fans, the reprints whetted their appetite for more of the old stories, leading them to collect old Fawcett comics. And let us not forget that Shazam!, for all its problems, helped create new Captain Marvel fans, such as Jerry Ordway, who would later do his own take on the characters, and our own P. C. Hamerlinck, to name just two.
art and entertainment world, named in his honor. He has come over to my table in the “Walk of Fame” where the media guests sign their autographs.) “I got two Shazam! #1s, a #3, #6, #8, and three “Shazam!” Limited Collectors’ Edition #C-35s [with me as the good Captain on the cover], and Elizabeth [my then-fiancée, and now wife] is out with the vendors scrounging up some more,” I tell him as I finish signing the photo to the fan. (Left to right:) Jackson Bostwick as TV’s Captain Marvel in the first episode of Shazam! (1974)— with Julie Schwartz at the 2000 DragonCon in Atlanta, Georgia—on the cover of the Limited Collectors Edition which featured Jackson—and in a piece of art (from the back cover) which “lightboxed” that photo. Thanks to Walt Grogan for the two comics scans; he thinks Dick Giordano may have drawn the latter one, but Dick doesn’t recall it. Any other suggestions? [Captain Marvel TM & ©2004 DC Comics.]
Shazam! would earn no awards, not even, ironically, the comics pros’ then-coveted Shazam Award. But it was a title which is today fondly recalled by at least some fans as their first glimpse at the top star of the Golden Age. If the title didn’t make him a superstar once more, well, perhaps no effort could have done so … with Shazam! remaining—in its own small way—a tribute to the glories of yesteryear … DC’s homage to the character it had tried so strenuously to kill off decades earlier. Not one of Schwartz’s great successes, but hardly an unqualified failure, either!
JACKSON BOSTWICK “Okay, Jackson, what have ya got for me ta sign for ya?” the voice behind me announces. I look up from signing a picture for a fan as Julie Schwartz pulls up a chair and plops down beside me grinnin’ like a mule eatin’ briars. (We are at DragonCon 2002, the sci-fi and comic book convention in Atlanta, Georgia, where Julie is lauded each year with a special award ceremony recognizing achievement and excellence in the
I turn to see Julie is donning a black nylon jacket emblazoned with a large Superman ‘S’ on the back. “Forgive me for wearing this, Captain,” he says, indicating the ‘alien’ jacket, “but I got a little chilly in the other room.”
“Pshaw,” I respond. “The good Captain is, and never was, intimidated by DC’s visitor from another world. These colors never run,” I indicate as I place a Shazam! #1 comic (depicting Superman re-introducing Captain Marvel with artwork by C.C. Beck) on the table in front of him, “never have, and never will! I just wish the folks at DC would’ve had at least had the intellectual foresight to COPYRIGHT THE *&^%$# NAME!! DUH!” “Hey, we still call him ‘The Original Captain Marvel,’” Julie says. “Oh, how resourceful of you!” I respond. “When you still could have had it as the main title now, instead of a parenthetical subtitle. More than half the people that come up to me refer to the character as ‘Shazam,’ not ‘Captain Marvel.’ But hey, who am I to complain? I didn’t have a dog in that DC/Fawcett rumble, and I’m sure it wasn’t just an oversight—excuse me, Biblically major oversight—by DC at the time (wink, wink, nudge, nudge). It was planned. Right? Hah!” I hand him a Sharpie. “Here, Mr. Schwartz. Would you please sign these comics for a poor, identity-challenged fan of ‘The World’s Mightiest Mortal’?” We laugh good and heartily as Elizabeth appears with more of the ’70s Shazam! comics and one Captain Marvel Adventures comic from the Golden Age.
A Man Named “Julie”
51 (Left:) This story for Shazam! #10 (Feb. 1974) is one of the two C.C. Beck refused to draw, so the art chores were turned over to Bob Oksner and Vince Colletta. Autographed to P.C. Hamerlinck by Bob Oksner in San Diego, 2002. (Right:) The other Beck reject was this one, which was then drawn by Kurt Schaffenberger—but PCH feels that “Even Schaffie couldn’t save the story.” [©2004 DC Comics.]
P.C. and Jennifer Hamerlinck.
Julie later told me how much he enjoyed my portrayal of the Big Red Cheese, and that it was a big boon for the comic’s popularity. He said when the Shazam! comic book first came out in 1973 and reintroduced Captain Marvel and the art of C.C. Beck, sales were less than desirable. They had hoped it would have had the same impact as the Fawcett run during the Golden Age when Whiz Comics and Captain Marvel Adventures were riding high. But that was not the case with the revival. Then, when the TV show hit the air in the fall of 1974, sales skyrocketed. He told Elizabeth and me that’s why I ended up being on the cover of the Limited Collectors’ Edition. Julie Schwartz is a part of history in the world of comics, and was a friend of mine, as was the mighty C.C. Beck. C.C. and I were definitely closer and corresponded more over the years, but Julie will always have his own special shelf in the library of my memories.
P.C. HAMERLINCK Julie was undoubtedly one of the “world’s finest” comic book editors to have walked the planet. He made a colorful career for himself by dusting off and modernizing old-but-not-forgotten super-heroes, and maintaining over the years their new-found mythology … but, in my
hopelessly-biased opinion, Julie was the wrong editor to be involved in DC’s 1970s revival of a character his company had fought so diligently to destroy. The fact that Julie did not share the same love and appreciation for Fawcett’s original Captain Marvel as so many others did wasn’t exactly advantageous to the Captain’s return to comics. And while we were delighted that DC brought Cap’s chief artist and co-creator C.C. Beck back to the comic book drawing board, it didn’t take long for Beck to become Schwartz’s “Luthor” and for Schwartz to become Beck’s “Sivana.” Julie firmly held the course and wasn’t about to give control of Shazam! over to Beck, as much as we would have loved to have seen him do so. Julie stood by his staff writers as Beck returned their scripts, refusing to illustrate the pseudo-mock-whimsy-foolishness that was produced where Cap portrayed the bumbling buffoon … and young Billy was cast as the village idiot.
Two of “Julie’s girls”: a “Mary Marvel” splash by Bob Oskner from Shazam! #10 (Feb. 1974)—and the splash of the last story Julie Schwartz edited for the title—the Isis debut/crossover in Shazam! #25 (Sept.-Oct. 1976), written by Denny O’Neil and drawn by Dick Giordano. Joe Orlando then took over as editor of Shazam! for the brief remainder of its run. [Mary Marvel art ©2004 DC Comics; Isis TM & ©2004 Entertainment Rights.]
But there’s no need here to rehash the whole sordid Shazam! affair, about which I and others have written and lamented since it all took place over 30 years ago… and such trivialities were of no concern to a young P.C.H. when the Big Red Cheese re-appeared in 1973. The new stories, with all iniquities aside, were still fun to read… and a whole new generation could now read classic Fawcett reprints found in the back of the book and in the Limited Collector’s Editions that featured little classics by Beck, the brothers Binder, Raboy, Costanza, Schaffenberger, Swayze, and other imaginative folks. With the World’s Mightiest Mortal’s infectious magic now re-released, I
52
A Half-Dozen Fawcett Collects Remember the Late DC Comics Editor soon realized I had to contact Beck, and a friendship ensued. Captain Marvel was on television every Saturday morning. ‘Shazam!’ merchandise was marketed everywhere. It was all exciting stuff for a small town-kid from the upperMidwest. And none of it would have happened without DC and Julie bringing back—alas, even slicing up—the Cheese. I met Julie only once, circa mid-’90s, at a convention in Minneapolis. Power of Shazam! penciler Peter Krause introduced me to the veteran editor, and we talked briefly about his association with Otto Binder. I expressed to him how much I enjoyed DC’s Limited Collectors’ Editions as a kid. (The over-sized comic books were initiated by Julie himself, for optimal display and exposure purposes in stores such as Woolworth’s, much like Fawcett’s experimenting with larger formats with early issues of Master Comics and the Captain Marvel Thrill Book.) Then I mentioned the name of C.C. BECK to him … suddenly and abruptly, it was time for Julie to depart. As Julie got up from his table, I gave him a copy of FCA #56 (back when I was self-publishing it). He quickly browsed through it, noted my interview with Bob Oksner, and commented that Oksner was “a great, underrated artist.” Then, with editor hat still nestled on head, he pointed out a typographical error Two tiers of decidedly non-Beck “Shazam!”-related art. in the interview. (a) Artist Dave Cockrum, soon to help revive The X-Men at Marvel, drew a single “Captain Marvel Jr.” story for Shazam! in a Raboy-influenced style, as per this drawing done for the Cap Jr. entry in DC’s 1980s Who’s Who series. Repro’d from a photocopy of the original art—and we’re glad to hear that Dave, who’s been ailing, is on the mend. Get well quick, Dave—the comics world needs you! [©2004 DC Comics.]
(b) Julie never edited any “Shazam!” stories penciled by Don Newton, but they probably came closer artistically to what he would have preferred for the series… though Fawcett fans are distinctly divided about the approach, if not Don’s talent. From World’s Finest Comics #265 (Oct.-Nov. 1980). [©2004 DC Comics.] (c) Julie did edit the first story arc A/E editor Roy Thomas developed for DC (with an assist from Gerry Conway) when he moved over from Marvel in 1980-81, as per this Rich Buckler/Dick Giordano page from DC Comics Presents #34 (June 1981). Thanks to Marc Sparks. [©2004 DC Comics.] (d) But we thought we should end on a more Beckish note—so here’s a nice convention sketch done by Silver Age Aquaman/Metamorpho artist Ramona Fradon for Jeff Gelb a few years back. Thanks for sharing it with us, Jeff! [Art ©2004 Ramona Fradon; Captain Marvel TM & ©2004 DC Comics.]
Without a word of thanks, Julie folded the FCA in half and stuffed it in his coat pocket. Then, as the elder editor walked away from the convention floor, he turned to me and said, “Well, at least I got something to read on the plane!” [NOTE: Remember—lots more about Julie Schwartz—plus Gil Kane & Russ Heath—coming up in A/E #40!]
Now—FLIP US for JULIE—Part One!
Edited by ROY THOMAS
DIGITAL
The greatest ‘zine of the 1960s is back, ALL-NEW, and focusing on GOLDEN AND SILVER AGE comics and creators with NS EDITIO BLE ARTICLES, INTERVIEWS, A IL AVA NLY UNSEEN ART, P.C. Hamerlinck’s FOR O 5 FCA (Fawcett Collectors of $2.9 America, featuring the archives of C.C. BECK and recollections by Fawcett artist MARCUS SWAYZE), Michael T. Gilbert’s MR. MONSTER, and more!
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ALTER EGO #4
ALTER EGO #5
ALTER EGO #1
ALTER EGO #2
ALTER EGO #3
STAN LEE gets roasted by SCHWARTZ, CLAREMONT, DAVID, ROMITA, BUSCEMA, and SHOOTER, ORDWAY and THOMAS on INFINITY, INC., IRWIN HASEN interview, unseen H.G. PETER Wonder Woman pages, the original Captain Marvel and Human Torch teamup, FCA with MARC SWAYZE, “Mr. Monster”, plus plenty of rare and unpublished art!
Featuring a never-reprinted SPIRIT story by WILL EISNER, the genesis of the SILVER AGE ATOM (with GARDNER FOX, GIL KANE, and JULIE SCHWARTZ), interviews with LARRY LIEBER and Golden Age great JACK BURNLEY, BOB KANIGHER, a new Fawcett Collectors of America section with MARC SWAYZE, C.C. BECK, and more! GIL KANE and JACK BURNLEY flip-covers!
Unseen ALEX ROSS and JERRY ORDWAY Shazam! art, 1953 interview with OTTO BINDER, the SUPERMAN/CAPTAIN MARVEL LAWSUIT, GIL KANE on The Golden Age of TIMELY COMICS, FCA with SWAYZE, BECK, and SCHAFFENBERGER, rare art by AYERS, BERG, BURNLEY, DITKO, RICO, SCHOMBURG, MARIE SEVERIN and more! ALEX ROSS & BILL EVERETT covers!
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ALTER EGO #6
ALTER EGO #7
ALTER EGO #8
Interviews with KUBERT, SHELLY MOLDOFF, and HARRY LAMPERT, BOB KANIGHER, life and times of GARDNER FOX, ROY THOMAS remembers GIL KANE, a history of Flash Comics, MOEBIUS Silver Surfer sketches, MR. MONSTER, FCA section with SWAYZE, BECK, and SCHAFFENBERGER, and lots more! Dual color covers by JOE KUBERT!
Celebrating the JSA, with interviews with MART NODELL, SHELLY MAYER, GEORGE ROUSSOS, BILL BLACK, and GIL KANE, unpublished H.G. PETER Wonder Woman art, GARDNER FOX, an FCA section with MARC SWAYZE, C.C. BECK, WENDELL CROWLEY, and more! Wraparound cover by CARMINE INFANTINO and JERRY ORDWAY!
GENE COLAN interview, 1940s books on comics by STAN LEE and ROBERT KANIGHER, AYERS, SEVERIN, and ROY THOMAS on Sgt. Fury, ROY on All-Star Squadron’s Golden Age roots, FCA section with SWAYZE, BECK, and WILLIAM WOOLFOLK, JOE SIMON interview, a definitive look at MAC RABOY’S work, and more! Covers by COLAN and RABOY!
Companion to ALL-STAR COMPANION book, with a JULIE SCHWARTZ interview, guide to JLA-JSA TEAMUPS, origins of the ALL-STAR SQUADRON, FCA section with MARC SWAYZE, C.C. BECK (on his 1970s DC conflicts), DAVE BERG, BOB ROGERS, more on MAC RABOY from his son, MR. MONSTER, and more! RICH BUCKLER and C.C. BECK covers!
WALLY WOOD biography, DAN ADKINS & BILL PEARSON on Wood, TOR section with 1963 JOE KUBERT interview, ROY THOMAS on creating the ALL-STAR SQUADRON and its 1940s forebears, FCA section with SWAYZE & BECK, MR. MONSTER, JERRY ORDWAY on Shazam!, JERRY DeFUCCIO on the Golden Age, CHIC STONE remembered! ADKINS and KUBERT covers!
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ALTER EGO #9
ALTER EGO #10
ALTER EGO #11
ALTER EGO #12
ALTER EGO #13
JOHN ROMITA interview by ROY THOMAS (with unseen art), Roy’s PROPOSED DREAM PROJECTS that never got published (with a host of great artists), MR. MONSTER on WAYNE BORING’S life after Superman, The Golden Age of Comic Fandom Panel, FCA section with GEORGE TUSKA, C.C. BECK, MARC SWAYZE, BILL MORRISON, & more! ROMITA and GIORDANO covers!
Who Created the Silver Age Flash? (with KANIGHER, INFANTINO, KUBERT, and SCHWARTZ), DICK AYERS interview (with unseen art), JOHN BROOME remembered, never-seen Golden Age Flash pages, VIN SULLIVAN Magazine Enterprises interview, FCA, interview with FRED GUARDINEER, and MR. MONSTER on WAYNE BORING! INFANTINO and AYERS covers!
Focuses on TIMELY/MARVEL (interviews and features on SYD SHORES, MICKEY SPILLANE, and VINCE FAGO), and MAGAZINE ENTERPRISES (including JOE CERTA, JOHN BELFI, FRANK BOLLE, BOB POWELL, and FRED MEAGHER), MR. MONSTER on JERRY SIEGEL, DON and MAGGIE THOMPSON interview, FCA with SWAYZE, BECK, and DON NEWTON!
DC and QUALITY COMICS focus! Quality’s GILL FOX interview, never-seen ‘40s PAUL REINMAN Green Lantern story, ROY THOMAS talks to LEN WEIN and RICH BUCKLER about ALL-STAR SQUADRON, MR. MONSTER shows what made WALLY WOOD leave MAD, FCA section with BECK & SWAYZE, & ‘65 NEWSWEEK ARTICLE on comics! REINMAN and BILL WARD covers!
1974 panel with JOE SIMON, STAN LEE, FRANK ROBBINS, and ROY THOMAS, ROY and JOHN BUSCEMA on Avengers, 1964 STAN LEE interview, tributes to DON HECK, JOHNNY CRAIG, and GRAY MORROW, Timely alums DAVID GANTZ and DANIEL KEYES, and FCA with BECK, SWAYZE, and MIKE MANLEY! Covers by MURPHY ANDERSON and JOE SIMON!
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16
ALTER EGO #14
ALTER EGO #15
ALTER EGO #16
ALTER EGO #17
ALTER EGO #18
A look at the 1970s JSA revival with CONWAY, LEVITZ, ESTRADA, GIFFEN, MILGROM, and STATON, JERRY ORDWAY on All-Star Squadron, tributes to CRAIG CHASE and DAN DeCARLO, “lost” 1945 issue of All-Star, 1970 interview with LEE ELIAS, MR. MONSTER on GARDNER FOX, FCA with SWAYZE, BECK, & JAY DISBROW! MIKE NASSER & MICHAEL GILBERT covers!
JOHN BUSCEMA ISSUE! BUSCEMA interview (with UNSEEN ART), reminiscences by SAL BUSCEMA, STAN LEE, INFANTINO, KUBERT, ORDWAY, FLO STEINBERG, and HERB TRIMPE, ROY THOMAS on 35 years with BIG JOHN, FCA tribute to KURT SCHAFFENBERGER, plus C.C. BECK and MARC SWAYZE, and MR. MONSTER revisits WALLY WOOD! Two BUSCEMA covers!
MARVEL BULLPEN REUNION (BUSCEMA, COLAN, ROMITA, and SEVERIN), memories of the JOHN BUSCEMA SCHOOL, FCA with ALEX ROSS, C.C. BECK, and MARC SWAYZE, tribute to CHAD GROTHKOPF, MR. MONSTER on EC COMICS with art by KURTZMAN, DAVIS, and WOOD, and more! Covers by ALEX ROSS and MARIE SEVERIN & RAMONA FRADON!
Spotlighting LOU FINE (with an overview of his career, and interviews with family members), interview with MURPHY ANDERSON about Fine, ALEX TOTH on Fine, ARNOLD DRAKE interviewed about DEADMAN and DOOM PATROL, MR. MONSTER on the non-EC work of JACK DAVIS and GEORGE EVANS, FINE and LUIS DOMINGUEZ COVERS, FCA and more!
STAN GOLDBERG interview, secrets of ‘40s Timely, art by KIRBY, DITKO, ROMITA, BUSCEMA, MANEELY, EVERETT, BURGOS, and DeCARLO, spotlight on sci-fi fanzine XERO with the LUPOFFS, OTTO BINDER, DON THOMPSON, ROY THOMAS, BILL SCHELLY, and ROGER EBERT, FCA, and MR. MONSTER on WALLY WOOD ghosting Flash Gordon! KIRBY and SWAYZE covers!
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ALTER EGO #19
ALTER EGO #20
ALTER EGO #21
ALTER EGO #22
ALTER EGO #23
Spotlight on DICK SPRANG (profile and interview) with unseen art, rare Batman art by BOB KANE, CHARLES PARIS, SHELLY MOLDOFF, MAX ALLAN COLLINS, JIM MOONEY, CARMINE INFANTINO, and ALEX TOTH, JERRY ROBINSON interviewed about Tomahawk and 1940s cover artist FRED RAY, FCA, and MR. MONSTER on WALLY WOOD’s Flash Gordon, Part 2!
Timely/Marvel art by SEKOWSKY, SHORES, EVERETT, and BURGOS, secrets behind THE INVADERS with ROY THOMAS, KIRBY, GIL KANE, & ROBBINS, BOB DESCHAMPS interviewed, 1965 NY Comics Con review, panel with FINGER, BINDER, FOX and WEISINGER, MR. MONSTER, FCA with SWAYZE, BECK, RABOY, SCHAFFENBERGER, and more! MILGROM and SCHELLY covers!
The IGER “SHOP” examined, with art by EISNER, FINE, ANDERSON, CRANDALL, BAKER, MESKIN, CARDY, EVANS, BOB KANE, and TUSKA, “SHEENA” section with art by DAVE STEVENS & FRANK BRUNNER, ROY THOMAS on JSA & All-Star Squadron, MR. MONSTER on GARDNER FOX, UNSEEN 1946 ALL-STAR ART, FCA, and more! DAVE STEVENS and IRWIN HASEN covers!
BILL EVERETT and JOE KUBERT interviewed by NEAL ADAMS and GIL KANE in 1970, Timely art by BURGOS, SHORES, NODELL, and SEKOWSKY, RUDY LAPICK, ROY THOMAS on Sub-Mariner, with art by EVERETT, COLAN, ANDRU, BUSCEMAs, SEVERINs, and more, FCA, MR. MONSTER on WALLY WOOD at EC, ALEX TOTH, and CAPT. MIDNIGHT! EVERETT & BECK covers!
Unseen art from TWO “LOST” 1940s H.G. PETER WONDER WOMAN STORIES (and analysis of “CHARLES MOULTON” scripts), BOB FUJITANI and JOHN ROSENBERGER, VICTOR GORELICK discusses Archie and The Mighty Crusaders, with art by MORROW, BUCKLER, and REINMAN, FCA, and MR. MONSTER on WALLY WOOD! H.G. PETER and BOB FUJITANI covers!
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ALTER EGO #24
ALTER EGO #25
ALTER EGO #26
ALTER EGO #27
ALTER EGO #28
X-MEN interviews with STAN LEE, DAVE COCKRUM, CHRIS CLAREMONT, ARNOLD DRAKE, JIM SHOOTER, ROY THOMAS, and LEN WEIN, MORT MESKIN profiled by his sons and ALEX TOTH, rare art by JERRY ROBINSON, FCA with BECK, SWAYZE, and WILLIAM WOOLFOLK, MR. MONSTER, and BILL SCHELLY on Comics Fandom! MESKIN and COCKRUM covers!
JACK COLE remembered by ALEX TOTH, interview with brother DICK COLE and his PLAYBOY colleagues, CHRIS CLAREMONT on the X-Men (with more never-seen art by DAVE COCKRUM), ROY THOMAS on AllStar Squadron #1 and its ‘40s roots (with art by ORDWAY, BUCKLER, MESKIN and MOLDOFF), FCA, MR. MONSTER, and more! Covers by TOTH and SCHELLY!
JOE SINNOTT interview, IRWIN DONENFELD interview by EVANIER & SCHWARTZ, art by SHUSTER, INFANTINO, ANDERSON, and SWAN, MARK WAID analyzes the first Kryptonite story, JERRY SIEGEL and HARRY DONENFELD, JERRY IGER Shop update, ALEX TOTH, MR. MONSTER, and FCA with SWAYZE, BECK, and KEN BALD! Covers by SINNOTT and WAYNE BORING!
VIN SULLIVAN interview about the early DC days with art by SHUSTER, MOLDOFF, FLESSEL, GUARDINEER, and BURNLEY, MR. MONSTER’s “Lost” KIRBY HULK covers, 1948 NEW YORK COMIC CON with STAN LEE, SIMON & KIRBY, JULIUS SCHWARTZ, HARVEY KURTZMAN, and ROY THOMAS, ALEX TOTH, FCA, and more! Covers by JACK BURNLEY and JACK KIRBY!
Spotlight on JOE MANEELY, with a career overview, remembrance by his daughter and tons of art, Timely/Atlas/Marvel art by ROMITA, EVERETT, SEVERIN, SHORES, KIRBY, and DITKO, STAN LEE on Maneely, LEE AMES interview, FCA with SWAYZE, ISIS, and STEVE SKEATES, MR. MONSTER, BILL SCHELLY, and more! Covers by JOE MANEELY and DON NEWTON!
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17
ALTER EGO #29
ALTER EGO #30
ALTER EGO #31
ALTER EGO #32
ALTER EGO #33
FRANK BRUNNER interview, BILL EVERETT’S Venus examined by TRINA ROBBINS, Classics Illustrated “What ifs”, LEE/KIRBY/DITKO Marvel prototypes, JOE MANEELY’s monsters, BILL FRACCIO interview, ALEX TOTH, MR. MONSTER, JOHN BENSON on EC, The Heap by ERNIE SCHROEDER, and FCA! Covers by FRANK BRUNNER and PETE VON SHOLLY!
ALEX ROSS on his love for the JLA, BLACKHAWK/JLA artist DICK DILLIN, the super-heroes of 1940s-1980s France (with art by STEVE RUDE, STEVE BISSETTE, LADRÖNN, and NEAL ADAMS), KIM AAMODT & WALTER GEIER on writing for SIMON & KIRBY, ALEX TOTH, MR. MONSTER, and FCA! Covers by ALEX ROSS and STEVE RUDE!
DICK AYERS on his 1950s and ‘60s work (with tons of Marvel Bullpen art), HARLAN ELLISON’s Marvel Age work examined (with art by BUCKLER, SAL BUSCEMA, and TRIMPE), STAN LEE’S Marvel Prototypes (with art by KIRBY and DITKO), Christmas cards from comics greats, MR. MONSTER, & FCA with SWAYZE and SCHAFFENBERGER! Covers by DICK AYERS and FRED RAY!
Timely artists ALLEN BELLMAN and SAM BURLOCKOFF interviewed, MART NODELL on his Timely years, rare art by BURGOS, EVERETT, and SHORES, MIKE GOLD on the Silver Age (with art by SIMON & KIRBY, SWAN, INFANTINO, KANE, and more), FCA, ALEX TOTH, BILL SCHELLY on comics fandom, and more! Covers by DICK GIORDANO and GIL KANE!
Symposium on MIKE SEKOWSKY by MARK EVANIER, SCOTT SHAW!, et al., with art by ANDERSON, INFANTINO, and others, PAT (MRS. MIKE) SEKOWSKY and inker VALERIE BARCLAY interviewed, FCA, 1950s Captain Marvel parody by ANDRU and ESPOSITO, ALEX TOTH, BILL SCHELLY, MR. MONSTER, and more! Covers by FRENZ/SINNOTT and FRENZ/BUSCEMA!
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ALTER EGO #34
ALTER EGO #35
ALTER EGO #36
ALTER EGO #37
ALTER EGO #38
Quality Comics interviews with ALEX KOTZKY, AL GRENET, CHUCK CUIDERA, & DICK ARNOLD (son of BUSY ARNOLD), art by COLE, EISNER, FINE, WARD, DILLIN, and KANE, MICHELLE NOLAN on Blackhawk’s jump to DC, FCA, MICHAEL T. GILBERT on HARVEY KURTZMAN, & ALEX TOTH on REED CRANDALL! Covers by REED CRANDALL & CHARLES NICHOLAS!
Covers by JOHN ROMITA and AL JAFFEE! LEE, ROMITA, AYERS, HEATH, & THOMAS on the 1953-55 Timely super-hero revival, with rare art by ROMITA, AYERS, BURGOS, HEATH, EVERETT, LAWRENCE, & POWELL, AL JAFFEE on the 1940s Timely Bullpen (and MAD), FCA, ALEX TOTH on comic art, MR. MONSTER on unpublished 1950s covers, and more!
JOE SIMON on SIMON & KIRBY, CARL BURGOS, and LLOYD JACQUET, JOHN BELL on World War II Canadian heroes, MICHAEL T. GILBERT on Canadian origins of MR. MONSTER, tributes to BOB DESCHAMPS, DON LAWRENCE, & GEORGE WOODBRIDGE, FCA, ALEX TOTH, and ELMER WEXLER interview! Covers by SIMON and GILBERT & RONN SUTTON!
WILL MURRAY on the 1940 Superman “KMetal” story & PHILIP WYLIE’s GLADIATOR (with art by SHUSTER, SWAN, ADAMS, and BORING), FCA with BECK, SWAYZE, and DON NEWTON, SY BARRY interview, art by TOTH, MESKIN, INFANTINO, and ANDERSON, and MICHAEL T. GILBERT interviews AL FELDSTEIN on EC and RAY BRADBURY! Covers by C.C. BECK and WAYNE BORING!
JULIE SCHWARTZ TRIBUTE with HARLAN ELLISON, INFANTINO, ANDERSON, TOTH, KUBERT, GIELLA, GIORDANO, CARDY, LEVITZ, STAN LEE, WOLFMAN, EVANIER, & ROY THOMAS, never-seen interviews with Julie, FCA with BECK, SCHAFFENBERGER, NEWTON, COCKRUM, OKSNER, FRADON, SWAYZE, and JACKSON BOSTWICK! Covers by INFANTINO and IRWIN HASEN!
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ALTER EGO #39
ALTER EGO #40
ALTER EGO #41
ALTER EGO #42
ALTER EGO #43
Full-issue spotlight on JERRY ROBINSON, with an interview on being BOB KANE’s Batman “ghost”, creating the JOKER and ROBIN, working on VIGILANTE, GREEN HORNET, and ATOMAN, plus never-seen art by Jerry, MESKIN, ROUSSOS, RAY, KIRBY, SPRANG, DITKO, and PARIS! Plus FCA, MR. MONSTER on AL FELDSTEIN Part 2, and more! Two JERRY ROBINSON covers!
RUSS HEATH and GIL KANE interviews (with tons of unseen art), the JULIE SCHWARTZ Memorial Service with ELLISON, MOORE, GAIMAN, HASEN, O’NEIL, and LEVITZ, art by INFANTINO, ANDERSON, TOTH, NOVICK, DILLIN, SEKOWSKY, KUBERT, GIELLA, ARAGONÉS, FCA, MR. MONSTER and AL FELDSTEIN Part 3, and more! Covers by GIL KANE & RUSS HEATH!
Halloween issue! BERNIE WRIGHTSON on his 1970s FRANKENSTEIN, DICK BRIEFER’S monster, the campy 1960s Frankie, art by KALUTA, BAILY, MANEELY, PLOOG, KUBERT, BRUNNER, BORING, OKSNER, TUSKA, CRANDALL, and SUTTON, FCA #100, EMILIO SQUEGLIO interview, ALEX TOTH, MICHAEL T. GILBERT, and more! Covers by WRIGHTSON & MARC SWAYZE!
A celebration of DON HECK, WERNER ROTH, and PAUL REINMAN, rare art by KIRBY, DITKO, and AYERS, Hillman and Ziff-Davis remembered by Heap artist ERNIE SCHROEDER, HERB ROGOFF, and WALTER LITTMAN, FCA with MARC SWAYZE, MR. MONSTER, BILL SCHELLY, and ALEX TOTH! Covers by FASTNER & LARSON and ERNIE SCHROEDER!
Yuletide art by WOOD, SINNOTT, CARDY, BRUNNER, TOTH, NODELL, and others, interviews with Golden Age artists TOM GILL (Lone Ranger) and MORRIS WEISS, exploring 1960s Mexican comics, FCA with MARC SWAYZE and C.C. BECK, MR. MONSTER, ALEX TOTH, BILL SCHELLY on comics fandom, and more! Flip covers by GEORGE TUSKA and DAVE STEVENS!
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ALTER EGO #44
ALTER EGO #45
ALTER EGO #46
ALTER EGO #47
ALTER EGO #48
JSA/All-Star Squadron/Infinity Inc. special! Interviews with KUBERT, HASEN, ANDERSON, ORDWAY, BUCKLER, THOMAS, 1940s Atom writer ARTHUR ADLER, art by TOTH, SEKOWSKY, HASEN, MACHLAN, OKSNER, and INFANTINO, FCA, and MR. MONSTER’S “I Like Ike!” cartoons by BOB KANE, INFANTINO, OKSNER, and BIRO! Wraparound ORDWAY cover!
Interviews with Sandman artist CREIG FLESSEL and ‘40s creator BERT CHRISTMAN, MICHAEL CHABON on researching his Pulitzer-winning novel Kavalier & Clay, art by EISNER, KANE, KIRBY, and AYERS, FCA with MARC SWAYZE and C.C. BECK, OTTO BINDER’s “lost” Jon Jarl story, MR. MONSTER, BILL SCHELLY on comics fandom, and ALEX TOTH! CREIG FLESSEL cover!
The VERY BEST of the 1960s-70s ALTER EGO! 1969 BILL EVERETT interview, art by BURGOS, GUSTAVSON, SIMON & KIRBY, and others, 1960s gems by DITKO, E. NELSON BRIDWELL, JERRY BAILS, and ROY THOMAS, LOU GLANZMAN interview, tributes to IRV NOVICK and CHRIS REEVE, MR. MONSTER, FCA, TOTH, and more! Cover by EVERETT and MARIE SEVERIN!
Spotlights MATT BAKER, Golden Age cheesecake artist of PHANTOM LADY! Career overview, interviews with BAKER’s half-brother and nephew, art from AL FELDSTEIN, VINCE COLLETTA, ARTHUR PEDDY, JACK KAMEN and others, FCA, BILL SCHELLY talks to comic-book-seller (and fan) BUD PLANT, MR. MONSTER on missing AL WILLIAMSON art, and ALEX TOTH!
WILL EISNER discusses Eisner & Iger’s Shop and BUSY ARNOLD’s ‘40s Quality Comics, art by FINE, CRANDALL, COLE, POWELL, and CARDY, EISNER tributes by STAN LEE, GENE COLAN, & others, interviews with ‘40s Quality artist VERN HENKEL and CHUCK MAZOUJIAN, FCA, MR. MONSTER on EISNER’s Wonder Man, ALEX TOTH, and more with BUD PLANT! EISNER cover!
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ALTER EGO #49
ALTER EGO #50
ALTER EGO #51
ALTER EGO #52
ALTER EGO #53
Spotlights CARL BURGOS! Interview with daughter SUE BURGOS, art by BURGOS, BILL EVERETT, MIKE SEKOWSKY, ED ASCHE, and DICK AYERS, unused 1941 Timely cover layouts, the 1957 Atlas Implosion examined, MANNY STALLMAN, FCA, MR. MONSTER and more! New cover by MARK SPARACIO, from an unused 1941 layout by CARL BURGOS!
ROY THOMAS covers his 40-YEAR career in comics (AVENGERS, X-MEN, CONAN, ALL-STAR SQUADRON, INFINITY INC.), with ADAMS, BUSCEMA, COLAN, DITKO, GIL KANE, KIRBY, STAN LEE, ORDWAY, PÉREZ, ROMITA, and many others! Also FCA, & MR. MONSTER on ROY’s letters to GARDNER FOX! Flip-covers by BUSCEMA/ KIRBY/ALCALA and JERRY ORDWAY!
Golden Age Batman artist/BOB KANE ghost LEW SAYRE SCHWARTZ interviewed, Batman art by JERRY ROBINSON, DICK SPRANG, SHELDON MOLDOFF, WIN MORTIMER, JIM MOONEY, and others, the Golden and Silver Ages of AUSTRALIAN SUPER-HEROES, Mad artist DAVE BERG interviewed, FCA, MR. MONSTER on WILL EISNER, BILL SCHELLY, and more!
JOE GIELLA on the Silver Age at DC, the Golden Age at Marvel, and JULIE SCHWARTZ, with rare art by INFANTINO, GIL KANE, SEKOWSKY, SWAN, DILLIN, MOLDOFF, GIACOIA, SCHAFFENBERGER, and others, JAY SCOTT PIKE on STAN LEE and CHARLES BIRO, MARTIN THALL interview, ALEX TOTH, MR. MONSTER, BILL SCHELLY, and more! GIELLA cover!
GIORDANO and THOMAS on STOKER’S DRACULA, never-seen DICK BRIEFER Frankenstein strip, MIKE ESPOSITO on his work with ROSS ANDRU, art by COLAN, WRIGHTSON, MIGNOLA, BRUNNER, BISSETTE, KALUTA, HEATH, MANEELY, EVERETT, DITKO, FCA with MARC SWAYZE, BILL SCHELLY, ALEX TOTH, and MR. MONSTER! Cover by GIORDANO!
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ALTER EGO #54
ALTER EGO #55
ALTER EGO #56
ALTER EGO #57
ALTER EGO #58
MIKE ESPOSITO on DC and Marvel, ROBERT KANIGHER on the creation of Metal Men and Sgt. Rock (with comments by JOE KUBERT and BOB HANEY), art by ANDRU, INFANTINO, KIRBY, SEVERIN, WINDSOR-SMITH, ROMITA, BUSCEMA, TRIMPE, GIL KANE, and others, plus FCA, ALEX TOTH, BILL SCHELLY, MR. MONSTER, and more! ESPOSITO cover!
JACK and OTTO BINDER, KEN BALD, VIC DOWD, and BOB BOYAJIAN interviewed, FCA with SWAYZE and EMILIO SQUEGLIO, rare art by BECK, WARD, & SCHAFFENBERGER, Christmas Cards from CRANDALL, SINNOTT, HEATH, MOONEY, and CARDY, 1943 Pin-Up Calendar (with ‘40s movie stars as superheroines), ALEX TOTH, more! ALEX ROSS and ALEX WRIGHT covers!
Interviews with Superman creators SIEGEL & SHUSTER, Golden/Silver Age DC production guru JACK ADLER interviewed, NEAL ADAMS and radio/TV iconoclast (and comics fan) HOWARD STERN on Adler and his amazing career, art by CURT SWAN, WAYNE BORING, and AL PLASTINO, plus FCA, MR. MONSTER, ALEX TOTH, and more! NEAL ADAMS cover!
Issue-by-issue index of Timely/Atlas superhero stories by MICHELLE NOLAN, art by SIMON & KIRBY, EVERETT, BURGOS, ROMITA, AYERS, HEATH, SEKOWSKY, SHORES, SCHOMBURG, MANEELY, and SEVERIN, GENE COLAN and ALLEN BELLMAN on 1940s Timely super-heroes, FCA, MR. MONSTER, and BILL SCHELLY! Cover by JACK KIRBY and PETE VON SHOLLY!
GERRY CONWAY and ROY THOMAS on their ‘80s screenplay for “The X-Men Movie That Never Was!”with art by COCKRUM, ADAMS, BUSCEMA, BYRNE, GIL KANE, KIRBY, HECK, and LIEBER, Atlas artist VIC CARRABOTTA interview, ALLEN BELLMAN on 1940s Timely bullpen, FCA, 1966 panel on 1950s EC Comics, and MR. MONSTER! MARK SPARACIO/GIL KANE cover!
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19
ALTER EGO #59
ALTER EGO #60
ALTER EGO #61
ALTER EGO #62
ALTER EGO #63
Special issue on Batman and Superman in the Golden and Silver Ages, featuring a new ARTHUR SUYDAM interview, NEAL ADAMS on DC in the 1960s-1970s, SHELLY MOLDOFF, AL PLASTINO, Golden Age artist FRAN (Doll Man) MATERA interviewed, SIEGEL & SHUSTER, RUSS MANNING, FCA, MR. MONSTER, SUYDAM cover, and more!
Celebrates 50 years since SHOWCASE #4! FLASH interviews with SCHWARTZ, KANIGHER, INFANTINO, KUBERT, and BROOME, Golden Age artist TONY DiPRETA, 1966 panel with NORDLING, BINDER, and LARRY IVIE, FCA, MR. MONSTER, never-before-published color Flash cover by CARMINE INFANTINO, and more!
History of the AMERICAN COMICS GROUP (1946 to 1967)—including its roots in the Golden Age SANGOR ART SHOP and STANDARD/NEDOR comics! Art by MESKIN, ROBINSON, WILLIAMSON, FRAZETTA, SCHAFFENBERGER, & BUSCEMA, ACG writer/editor RICHARD HUGHES, plus AL HARTLEY interviewed, FCA, MR. MONSTER, and more! GIORDANO cover!
HAPPY HAUNTED HALLOWEEN ISSUE, featuring: MIKE PLOOG and RUDY PALAIS on their horror-comics work! AL WILLIAMSON on his work for the American Comics Group—plus more on ACG horror comics! Rare DICK BRIEFER Frankenstein strips! Plus FCA, MR. MONSTER, BILL SCHELLY on the 1966 KalerCon, a new PLOOG cover—and more!
Tribute to ALEX TOTH! Never-before-seen interview with tons of TOTH art, including sketches he sent to friends! Articles about Toth by TERRY AUSTIN, JIM AMASH, SY BARRY, JOE KUBERT, LOU SAYRE SCHWARTZ, IRWIN HASEN, JOHN WORKMAN, and others! Plus illustrated Christmas cards by comics pros, FCA, MR. MONSTER, and more!
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ALTER EGO #64
ALTER EGO #65
ALTER EGO #66
ALTER EGO #67
ALTER EGO #68
Fawcett Favorites! Issue-by-issue analysis of BINDER & BECK’s 1943-45 “The Monster Society of Evil!” serial, double-size FCA section with MARC SWAYZE, EMILIO SQUEGLIO, C.C. BECK, MAC RABOY, and others! Interview with MARTIN FILCHOCK, Golden Age artist for Centaur Comics! Plus MR. MONSTER, DON NEWTON cover, plus a FREE 1943 MARVEL CALENDAR!
NICK CARDY interviewed on his Golden & Silver Age work (with CARDY art), plus art by WILL EISNER, NEAL ADAMS, CARMINE INFANTINO, JIM APARO, RAMONA FRADON, CURT SWAN, MIKE SEKOWSKY, and others, tributes to ERNIE SCHROEDER and DAVE COCKRUM, FCA with MARC SWAYZE, MICHAEL T. GILBERT and MR. MONSTER, new CARDY COVER, and more!
Spotlight on BOB POWELL, the artist who drew Daredevil, Sub-Mariner, Sheena, The Avenger, The Hulk, Giant-Man, and others, plus art by WALLY WOOD, HOWARD NOSTRAND, DICK AYERS, SIMON & KIRBY, MARTIN GOODMAN’s Magazine Management, and others! FCA with MARC SWAYZE and C.C. BECK, MICHAEL T. GILBERT and MR. MONSTER, and more!
Interview with BOB OKSNER, artist of Supergirl, Jimmy Olsen, Lois Lane, Angel and the Ape, Leave It to Binky, Shazam!, and more, plus art and artifacts by SHELLY MAYER, IRWIN HASEN, LEE ELIAS, C.C. BECK, CARMINE INFANTINO, GIL KANE, JULIE SCHWARTZ, etc., FCA with MARC SWAYZE & C.C. BECK, MICHAEL T. GILBERT on BOB POWELL Part II, and more!
Tribute to JERRY BAILS—Father of Comics Fandom and founder of Alter Ego! Cover by GEORGE PÉREZ, plus art by JOE KUBERT, CARMINE INFANTINO, GIL KANE, DICK DILLIN, MIKE SEKOWSKY, JERRY ORDWAY, JOE STATON, JACK KIRBY, and others! Plus STEVE DITKO’s notes to STAN LEE for a 1965 Dr. Strange story! And ROY reveals secrets behind Marvel’s STAR WARS comic!
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ALTER EGO #69
ALTER EGO #70
ALTER EGO #71
ALTER EGO #72
ALTER EGO #73
PAUL NORRIS drew AQUAMAN first, in 1941—and RAMONA FRADON was the hero’s ultimate Golden Age artist. But both drew other things as well, and both are interviewed in this landmark issue—along with a pocket history of Aquaman! Plus FCA, MICHAEL T. GILBERT, and more! Cover painted by JOHN WATSON, from a breathtaking illo by RAMONA FRADON!
Spotlight on ROY THOMAS’ 1970s stint as Marvel’s editor-in-chief and major writer, plus art and reminiscences of GIL KANE, BOTH BUSCEMAS, ADAMS, ROMITA, CHAYKIN, BRUNNER, PLOOG, EVERETT, WRIGHTSON, PÉREZ, ROBBINS, BARRY SMITH, STAN LEE and others, FCA, MR. MONSTER, a new GENE COLAN cover, plus an homage to artist LILY RENÉE!
Represents THE GREAT CANADIAN COMIC BOOKS, the long out-of-print 1970s book by MICHAEL HIRSH and PATRICK LOUBERT, with rare art of such heroes as Mr. Monster, Nelvana, Thunderfist, and others, plus new INVADERS art by JOHN BYRNE, MIKE GRELL, RON LIM, and more, plus a new cover by GEORGE FREEMAN, from a layout by JACK KIRBY!
SCOTT SHAW! and ROY THOMAS on the creation of Captain Carrot, art & artifacts by RICK HOBERG, STAN GOLDBERG, MIKE SEKOWSKY, JOHN COSTANZA, E. NELSON BRIDWELL, CAROL LAY, and others, interview with DICK ROCKWELL, Golden Age artist and 36-year ghost artist on MILTON CANIFF’s Steve Canyon! Plus FCA, MR. MONSTER, and more!
FRANK BRUNNER on drawing Dr. Strange, interviews with CHARLES BIRO and his daughters, interview with publisher ROBERT GERSON about his 1970s horror comic Reality, art by BERNIE WRIGHTSON, GRAHAM INGELS, HOWARD CHAYKIN, MICHAEL W. KALUTA, JEFF JONES, and others FCA, MR. MONSTER, a FREE DRAW! #15! PREVIEW, and more!
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20
ALTER EGO #74
ALTER EGO #75
ALTER EGO #76
ALTER EGO #77
ALTER EGO #78
STAN LEE SPECIAL in honor of his 85th birthday, with a cover by JACK KIRBY, classic (and virtually unseen) interviews with Stan, tributes, and tons of rare and unseen art by KIRBY, ROMITA, the brothers BUSCEMA, DITKO, COLAN, HECK, AYERS, MANEELY, SHORES, EVERETT, BURGOS, KANE, the SEVERIN siblings—plus FCA, MR. MONSTER, and more!
FAWCETT FESTIVAL—with an ALEX ROSS cover! Double-size FCA (Fawcett Collectors of America) with P.C. HAMERLINCK on the many “Captains Marvel” over the years, unseen Shazam! proposal by ALEX ROSS, C.C. BECK on “The Death of a Legend!”, MARC SWAYZE, interview with Golden Age artist MARV LEVY, MR. MONSTER, and more!
JOE SIMON SPECIAL! In-depth SIMON interview by JIM AMASH, with neverbefore-revealed secrets behind the creation of Captain America, Fighting American, Stuntman, Adventures of The Fly, Sick magazine and more, art by JACK KIRBY, BOB POWELL, AL WILLIAMSON, JERRY GRANDENETTI, GEORGE TUSKA, and others, FCA, MR. MONSTER, and more!
ST. JOHN ISSUE! Golden Age Tor cover by JOE KUBERT, KEN QUATTRO relates the full legend of St. John Publishing, art by KUBERT, NORMAN MAURER, MATT BAKER, LILY RENEE, BOB LUBBERS, RUBEN MOREIRA, RALPH MAYO, AL FAGO, special reminiscences of ARNOLD DRAKE, Golden Age artist TOM SAWYER interviewed, and more!
DAVE COCKRUM TRIBUTE! Great rare XMen cover, Cockrum tributes from contemporaries and colleagues, and an interview with PATY COCKRUM on Dave’s life and legacy on The Legion of Super-Heroes, The X-Men, Star-Jammers, & more! Plus an interview with 1950s Timely/Marvel artist MARION SITTON on his own incredible career and his Golden Age contemporaries!
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ALTER EGO #79
ALTER EGO #80
ALTER EGO #81
ALTER EGO #82
ALTER EGO #83
SUPERMAN & HIS CREATORS! New cover by MICHAEL GOLDEN, exclusive and revealing interview with JOE SHUSTER’s sister, JEAN SHUSTER PEAVEY—LOU CAMERON interview—STEVE GERBER tribute—DWIGHT DECKER on the Man of Steel & Hitler’s Third Reich—plus art by WAYNE BORING, CURT SWAN, NEAL ADAMS, GIL KANE, and others!
SWORD-AND-SORCERY COMICS! Learn about Crom the Barbarian, Viking Prince, Nightmaster, Kull, Red Sonja, Solomon Kane, Bran Mak Morn, Fafhrd and Gray Mouser, Beowulf, Warlord, Dagar the Invincible, and more, with art by FRAZETTA, SMITH, BUSCEMA, KANE, WRIGHTSON, PLOOG, THORNE, BRUNNER, LOU CAMERON Part II, and more! Cover by RAFAEL KAYANAN!
New FRANK BRUNNER Man-Thing cover, a look at the late-’60s horror comic WEB OF HORROR with early work by BRUNNER, WRIGHTSON, WINDSOR-SMITH, SIMONSON, & CHAYKIN, interview with comics & fine artist EVERETT RAYMOND KINTSLER, ROY THOMAS’ 1971 origin synopsis for the FIRST MAN-THING STORY, plus FCA, MR. MONSTER, and more!
MLJ ISSUE! Golden Age MLJ index illustrated with vintage images of The Shield, Hangman, Mr. Justice, Black Hood, by IRV NOVICK, JACK COLE, CHARLES BIRO, MORT MESKIN, GIL KANE, & others—behind a marvelous MLJ-heroes cover by BOB McLEOD! Plus interviews with IRV NOVICK and JOE EDWARDS, FCA, MR. MONSTER, and more!
SWORD & SORCERY PART 2! Cover by ARTHUR SUYDAM, with a focus on Conan the Barbarian by ROY THOMAS and WILL MURRAY, a look at WALLY WOOD’s Marvel sword-&-sorcery work, the Black Knight examined, plus JOE EDWARDS interview Part 2, FCA, MICHAEL T. GILBERT and MR. MONSTER, and more!
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ALTER EGO #84
ALTER EGO #85
ALTER EGO #86
ALTER EGO #87
ALTER EGO #88
Unseen JIM APARO cover, STEVE SKEATES discusses his early comics work, art & artifacts by ADKINS, APARO, ARAGONÉS, BOYETTE, DITKO, GIORDANO, KANE, KELLER, MORISI, ORLANDO, SEKOWSKY, STONE, THOMAS, WOOD, and the great WARREN SAVIN! Plus writer CHARLES SINCLAIR on his partnership with Batman co-creator BILL FINGER, FCA, and more!
Captain Marvel and Superman’s battles explored (in cosmic space, candy stores, and in court), RICH BUCKLER on Captain Marvel, plus an in-depth interview with Golden Age great LILY RENÉE, overview of CENTAUR COMICS (home of BILL EVERETT’s Amazing-Man and others), FCA, MR. MONSTER, new RICH BUCKLER cover, and more!
Spotlighting the Frantic Four-Color MAD WANNABES of 1953-55 that copied HARVEY KURTZMAN’S EC smash (see Captain Marble, Mighty Moose, Drag-ula, Prince Scallion, and more) with art by SIMON & KIRBY, KUBERT & MAURER, ANDRU & ESPOSITO, EVERETT, COLAN, and many others, plus Part 1 of a talk with Golden/ Silver Age artist FRANK BOLLE, and more!
The sensational 1954-1963 saga of Great Britain’s MARVELMAN (decades before he metamorphosed into Miracleman), plus an interview with writer/artist/co-creator MICK ANGLO, and rare Marvelman/ Miracleman work by ALAN DAVIS, ALAN MOORE, a new RICK VEITCH cover, plus FRANK BOLLE, Part 2, FCA, MR. MONSTER, and more!
First-ever in-depth look at National/DC’s founder MAJOR MALCOLM WHEELERNICHOLSON, and pioneers WHITNEY ELLSWORTH and CREIG FLESSEL, with rare art and artifacts by SIEGEL & SHUSTER, BOB KANE, CURT SWAN, GARDNER FOX, SHELDON MOLDOFF, and others, focus on DC advisor DR. LAURETTA BENDER, FCA, MR. MONSTER, and more!
(100-page magazine) $6.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95
(100-page magazine) $6.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95
(100-page magazine) $6.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95
(100-page magazine) $6.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95
(100-page magazine) $6.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95
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ALTER EGO #89
ALTER EGO #90
ALTER EGO #91
ALTER EGO #92
ALTER EGO #93
HARVEY COMICS’ PRE-CODE HORROR MAGS OF THE 1950s! Interviews with SID JACOBSON, WARREN KREMER, and HOWARD NOSTRAND, plus Harvey artist KEN SELIG talks to JIM AMASH! MR. MONSTER presents the wit and wisdom (and worse) of DR. FREDRIC WERTHAM, plus FCA (Fawcett Collectors of America) with C.C. BECK & MARC SWAYZE, & more! SIMON & KIRBY and NOSTRAND cover!
BIG MARVEL ISSUE! Salutes to legends SINNOTT and AYERS—plus STAN LEE, TUSKA, EVERETT, MARTIN GOODMAN, and others! A look at the “Marvel SuperHeroes” TV animation of 1966! 1940s Timely writer and editor LEON LAZARUS interviewed by JIM AMASH! Plus FCA, MR. MONSTER, the 1960s fandom creations of STEVE GERBER, and more! JACK KIRBY holiday cover!
FAWCETT FESTIVAL! Big FCA section with Golden Age artists MARC SWAYZE & EMILIO SQUEGLIO! Plus JERRY ORDWAY on researching The Power of Shazam, Part II of “The MAD Four-Color Wannabes of the 1950s,” more on DR. LAURETTA BENDER and the teenage creations of STEVE GERBER, artist JACK KATZ spills Golden Age secrets to JIM AMASH, and more! New cover by ORDWAY and SQUEGLIO!
SWORD-AND-SORCERY, PART 3! DC’s Sword of Sorcery by O’NEIL, CHAYKIN, & SIMONSON and Claw by MICHELINIE & CHAN, Hercules by GLANZMAN, Dagar by GLUT & SANTOS, Marvel S&S art by BUSCEMA, CHAN, KAYANAN, WRIGHTSON, et al., and JACK KATZ on his classic First Kingdom! Plus FCA, MR. MONSTER, STEVE GERBER’s fan-creations (part 3), and more! Cover by RAFAEL KAYANAN!
(NOW WITH 16 COLOR PAGES!) “EarthTwo—1961 to 1985!” with rare art by INFANTINO, GIL KANE, ANDERSON, DELBO, ANDRU, BUCKLER, APARO, GRANDENETTI, and DILLIN, interview with Golden/Silver Age DC editor GEORGE KASHDAN, plus MICHAEL T. GILBERT and MR. MONSTER, STEVE GERBER, FCA (Fawcett Collectors of America), and a new cover by INFANTINO and AMASH!
(100-page magazine) $6.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95
(100-page magazine) $6.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95
(100-page magazine) $6.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95
(100-page magazine) $6.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95
(84-page magazine with COLOR) $7.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95
ALTER EGO #94
ALTER EGO #95
ALTER EGO #96
ALTER EGO #97
ALTER EGO #98
“Earth-Two Companion, Part II!” More on the 1963-1985 series that changed comics forever! The Huntress, Power Girl, Dr. Fate, Freedom Fighters, and more, with art by ADAMS, APARO, AYERS, BUCKLER, GIFFEN, INFANTINO, KANE, NOVICK, SCHAFFENBERGER, SIMONSON, STATON, SWAN, TUSKA, our GEORGE KASHDAN interview Part 2, FCA, and more! STATON & GIORDANO cover!
Marvel’s NOT BRAND ECHH madcap parody mag from 1967-69, examined with rare art & artifacts by ANDRU, COLAN, BUSCEMA, DRAKE, EVERETT, FRIEDRICH, KIRBY, LEE, the SEVERIN siblings, SPRINGER, SUTTON, THOMAS, TRIMPE, and more, GEORGE KASHDAN interview conclusion, FCA, MICHAEL T. GILBERT and MR. MONSTER, and more! Cover by MARIE SEVERIN!
Focus on Archie’s 1960s MIGHTY CRUSADERS, with vintage art and artifacts by JERRY SIEGEL, PAUL REINMAN, SIMON & KIRBY, JOHN ROSENBERGER, tributes to the Mighty Crusaders by BOB FUJITANE, GEORGE TUSKA, BOB LAYTON, and others! Interview with MELL LAZARUS, FCA, MICHAEL T. GILBERT and Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt, and more! Cover by MIKE MACHLAN!
The NON-EC HORROR COMICS OF THE 1950s! From Menace and House of Mystery to The Thing!, we present vintage art and artifacts by EVERETT, BRIEFER, DITKO, MANEELY, COLAN , MESKIN, MOLDOFF, HEATH, POWELL, COLE, SIMON & KIRBY, FUJITANI, and others, plus FCA , MR. MONSTER and more, behind a creepy, eerie cover by BILL EVERETT!
Spotlight on Superman’s first editor WHITNEY ELLSWORTH, longtime Kryptoeditor MORT WEISINGER remembered by his daughter, an interview with Superman writer ALVIN SCHWARTZ, tributes to FRANK FRAZETTA and AL WILLIAMSON, art by JOE SHUSTER, WAYNE BORING, CURT SWAN, and NEAL ADAMS, plus MR. MONSTER, FCA, and a new cover by JERRY ORDWAY!
(84-page magazine with COLOR) $7.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95
(84-page magazine with COLOR) $7.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95
(84-page magazine with COLOR) $7.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95
(84-page magazine with COLOR) $7.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95
(84-page magazine with COLOR) $7.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95
ALTER EGO: CENTENNIAL (AE #100)
ALTER EGO #99
GEORGE TUSKA showcase issue on his career at Lev Gleason, Marvel, and in comics strips through the early 1970s—CRIME DOES NOT PAY, BUCK ROGERS, IRON MAN, AVENGERS, HERO FOR HIRE, & more! Plus interviews with Golden Age artist BILL BOSSERT and fan-artist RUDY FRANKE, MR. MONSTER’S COMIC CRYPT, FCA (Fawcett Collectors of America), and more! (84-page magazine with COLOR) $7.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95
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ALTER EGO: CENTENNIAL is a celebration of 100 issues, and 50 years, of ALTER EGO, Roy Thomas’ legendary super-hero fanzine. It’s a double-size triple-threat BOOK, with twice as many pages as the regular magazine, plus special features just for this anniversary edition! Behind a RICH BUCKLER/JERRY ORDWAY JSA cover, ALTER EGO celebrates its 100th issue and the 50th anniversary of A/E (Vol. 1) #1 in 1961—as ROY THOMAS is interviewed by JIM AMASH about the 1980s at DC! Learn secrets behind ALL-STAR SQUADRON—INFINITY, INC.—ARAK, SON OF THUNDER—CAPTAIN CARROT—JONNI THUNDER, a.k.a. THUNDERBOLT— YOUNG ALL-STARS—SHAZAM!—RING OF THE NIBELUNG—and more! With rare art and artifacts by GEORGE PÉREZ, TODD McFARLANE, RICH BUCKLER, JERRY ORDWAY, MIKE MACHLAN, GIL KANE, GENE COLAN, DICK GIORDANO, ALFREDO ALCALA, TONY DEZUNIGA, ERNIE COLÓN, STAN GOLDBERG, SCOTT SHAW!, ROSS ANDRU, and many more! Plus special anniversary editions of Alter Ego staples MR. MONSTER’S COMIC CRYPT, FAWCETT COLLECTORS OF AMERICA (FCA)—and ALEX WRIGHT’s amazing color collection of 1940s DC pinup babes! Edited by ROY THOMAS. (NOTE: This book takes the place of ALTER EGO #100, and counts as TWO issues toward your subscription.) (160-page trade paperback with COLOR) $19.95 (Digital Edition) $5.95 • ISBN: 9781605490311 Diamond Order Code: JAN111351
ALTER EGO #101
Fox Comics of the 1940s with art by FINE, BAKER, SIMON, KIRBY, TUSKA, FLETCHER HANKS, ALEX BLUM, and others! “Superman vs. Wonder Man” starring EISNER, IGER, SIEGEL, LIEBERSON, MAYER, DONENFELD, and VICTOR FOX! Plus, Part I of an interview with JACK MENDELSOHN, plus FCA, MR. MONSTER’S COMIC CRYPT, and new cover by Marvel artist DAVE WILLIAMS!
NEW!
(84-page magazine with COLOR) $7.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95
ALTER EGO #102
ALTER EGO #103
ALTER EGO #104
ALTER EGO: THE CBA COLLECTION
Spotlight on Green Lantern creators MART NODELL and BILL FINGER in the 1940s, and JOHN BROOME, GIL KANE, and JULIUS SCHWARTZ in 1959! Rare GL artwork by INFANTINO, REINMAN, HASEN, NEAL ADAMS, and others! Plus JACK MENDELSOHN Part II, FCA, MR. MONSTER’S COMIC CRYPT, and new cover by GIL KANE & TERRY AUSTIN, and MART NODELL!
The early career of comics writer STEVE ENGLEHART: Defenders, Captain America, Master of Kung Fu, The Beast, Mantis, and more, with rare art and artifacts by SAL BUSCEMA, STARLIN, SUTTON, HECK, BROWN, and others. Plus, JIM AMASH interviews early artist GEORGE MANDEL (Captain Midnight, The Woman in Red, Blue Bolt, Black Marvel, etc.), FCA, MR. MONSTER’S COMIC CRYPT, and more!
Celebrates the 50th anniversary of FANTASTIC FOUR #1 and the birth of Marvel Comics! New, never-before-published STAN LEE interview, art and artifacts by KIRBY, DITKO, SINNOTT, AYERS, THOMAS, and secrets behind the Marvel Mythos! Also: JIM AMASH interviews 1940s Timely editor AL SULMAN, FCA, MR. MONSTER’S COMIC CRYPT, and a new cover by FRENZ and SINNOTT!
Compiles the ALTER EGO flip-sides from COMIC BOOK ARTIST #1-5, plus 30 NEW PAGES of features & art! All-new rare and previously-unpublished art by JACK KIRBY, GIL KANE, JOE KUBERT, WALLY WOOD, FRANK ROBBINS, NEAL ADAMS, & others, ROY THOMAS on X-MEN, AVENGERS/ KREE-SKRULL WAR, INVADERS, and more! Cover by JOE KUBERT!
(84-page magazine with COLOR) $7.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95
(84-page magazine with COLOR) $7.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95
(84-page magazine with COLOR) $7.95 (Digital Edition) $2.95
(160-page trade paperback) SOLD OUT (Digital Edition) $4.95
HUMOR MAGAZINES (BUNDLE ALL THREE FOR JUST $14.95)
ALTER EGO:
BEST OF THE LEGENDARY COMICS FANZINE
Collects the original 11 issues of JERRY BAILS and ROY THOMAS’ ALTER EGO fanzine (from 1961-78), with contributions from JACK KIRBY, STEVE DITKO, WALLY WOOD, JOHN BUSCEMA, MARIE SEVERIN, BILL EVERETT, RUSS MANNING, CURT SWAN, and others—and illustrated interviews with GIL KANE, BILL EVERETT, & JOE KUBERT! Plus major articles on the JUSTICE SOCIETY, the MARVEL FAMILY, the MLJ HEROES, and more! Edited by ROY THOMAS and BILL SCHELLY with an introduction by JULIE SCHWARTZ. (192-page trade paperback) $21.95 ISBN: 9781893905887 Diamond Order Code: DEC073946
COMIC BOOK NERD
PETE VON SHOLLY’s side-splitting parody of the fan press, including our own mags! Experience the magic(?) of such publications as WHIZZER, the COMICS URINAL, ULTRA EGO, COMICS BUYER’S GUISE, BAGGED ISSUE!, SCRAWL!, COMIC BOOK ARTISTE, and more, as we unabashedly poke fun at ourselves, our competitors, and you, our loyal readers! It’s a first issue, collector’s item, double-bag, slab-worthy, speculator’s special sure to rub even the thickest-skinned fanboy the wrong way! (64-page COLOR magazine) $8.95 • (Digital Edition) $2.95
CRAZY HIP GROOVY GO-GO WAY OUT MONSTERS #29 & #32
PETE VON SHOLLY’s spoofs of monster mags will have you laughing your pants off— right after you soil them from sheer terror! This RETRO MONSTER MOVIE MAGAZINE is a laugh riot lampoon of those GREAT (and absolutely abominable) mags of the 1950s and ‘60s, replete with fake letters-to-the-editor, phony ads for worthless, wacky stuff, stills from imaginary films as bad as any that were really made, interviews with their “creators,” and much more! Relive your misspent youth (and misspent allowance) as you dig the hilarious photos, ads, and articles skewering OUR FAVORITE THINGS of the past! Get our first issue (#29!), the sequel (#32!), or both!
DIEDGITIIOTANSL E
BL AVAILA
(48-page magazines) $5.95 EACH • (Digital Editions) $1.95 EACH
These sold-out books are now available again in DIGITAL EDITIONS:
NEW!
MR. MONSTER, VOL. 0
TRUE BRIT
DICK GIORDANO: CHANGING COMICS, ONE DAY AT A TIME
Collects hard-to-find Mr. Monster stories from A-1, CRACK-A-BOOM! and DARK HORSE PRESENTS (many in COLOR for the first time) plus over 30 pages of ALLNEW MR. MONSTER art and stories! Can your sanity survive our Lee/Kirby monster spoof by MICHAEL T. GILBERT and MARK MARTIN, or the long-lost 1933 Mr. Monster newspaper strip? Or the terrifying TRENCHER/MR. MONSTER slug-fest, drawn by KEITH GIFFEN and MICHAEL T. GILBERT?! Read at your own risk!
GEORGE KHOURY’s definitive book on the rich history of British Comics Artists, their influence on the US, and how they have revolutionized the way comics are seen and perceived! It features breathtaking art, intimate photographs, and in-depth interviews with BRIAN BOLLAND, ALAN DAVIS, DAVE GIBBONS, KEVIN O’NEILL, DAVID LLOYD, DAVE McKEAN, BRYAN HITCH, BARRY WINDSOR-SMITH and other fine gents! Sporting a new JUDGE DREDD cover by BRIAN BOLLAND!
MICHAEL EURY’s biography of comics’ most prominent and affable personality! It covers his career as illustrator, inker, and editor—peppered with DICK’S PERSONAL REFLECTIONS—and is illustrated with RARE AND UNSEEN comics, merchandising, and advertising art! Plus: an extensive index of his published work, comments and tributes by NEAL ADAMS, DENNIS O’NEIL, TERRY AUSTIN, PAUL LEVITZ, MARV WOLFMAN, JULIUS SCHWARTZ, JIM APARO and others, a Foreword by NEAL ADAMS, and an Afterword by PAUL LEVITZ!
(136-page Digital Edition with COLOR) $4.95
(204-page Digital Edition with COLOR) $6.95
(176-page Digital Edition with COLOR) $5.95
SECRETS IN THE SHADOWS: GENE COLAN
TOM FIELD’s amazing COLAN retrospective, with rare drawings, photos, and art from his 60-year career, and a comprehensive overview of Gene’s glory days at Marvel Comics! MARV WOLFMAN, DON McGREGOR and other writers share script samples and anecdotes of their Colan collaborations, while TOM PALMER, STEVE LEIALOHA and others show how they approached inking Colan’s famously nuanced penciled pages! Plus: a NEW PORTFOLIO of never-seen collaborations between Gene and masters such as BYRNE, KALUTA and PÉREZ, and all-new artwork created just for this book! (192-page Digital Edition with COLOR) $6.95
ART OF GEORGE TUSKA
A comprehensive look at GEORGE TUSKA’S personal and professional life, including early work at the Eisner-Iger shop, producing controversial crime comics of the 1950s, and his tenure with Marvel and DC Comics, as well as independent publishers. Includes extensive coverage of his work on IRON MAN, X-MEN, HULK, JUSTICE LEAGUE, TEEN TITANS, BATMAN, T.H.U.N.D.E.R. AGENTS, and others, a gallery of commission art and a thorough index of his work, original art, photos, sketches, unpublished art, interviews and anecdotes from his peers and fans, plus the very personal and reflective words of George himself! Written by DEWEY CASSELL. (128-page Digital Edition) $4.95
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OTHER BOOKS FROM TWOMORROWS PUBLISHING
PENCILER, PUBLISHER, PROVOCATEUR
COMICS’ FAST & FURIOUS ARTIST
THE ART OF GLAMOUR
MATT BAKER
EXTRAORDINARY WORKS OF ALAN MOORE
Shines a light on the life and career of the artistic and publishing visionary of DC Comics!
Explores the life and career of one of Marvel Comics’ most recognizable and dependable artists!
Biography of the talented master of 1940s “Good Girl” art, complete with color story reprints!
Definitive biography of the Watchmen writer, in a new, expanded edition!
(224-page trade paperback) $26.95
(176-page trade paperback with COLOR) $26.95
(192-page hardcover with COLOR) $39.95
(240-page trade paperback) $29.95
QUALITY COMPANION
BATCAVE COMPANION
ALL- STAR COMPANION
AGE OF TV HEROES
The first dedicated book about the Golden Age publisher that spawned the modern-day “Freedom Fighters”, Plastic Man, and the Blackhawks!
Unlocks the secrets of Batman’s Silver and Bronze Ages, following the Dark Knight’s progression from 1960s camp to 1970s creature of the night!
Roy Thomas has four volumes documenting the history of ALL-STAR COMICS, the JUSTICE SOCIETY, INFINITY, INC., and more!
(256-page trade paperback with COLOR) $31.95
(240-page trade paperback) $26.95
(224-page trade paperbacks) $24.95
Examining the history of the live-action television adventures of everyone’s favorite comic book heroes, featuring the in-depth stories of the shows’ actors and behind-the-scenes players!
CARMINE INFANTINO
SAL BUSCEMA
(192-page full-color hardcover) $39.95
MARVEL COMICS
MARVEL COMICS
An issue-by-issue field guide to the pop culture phenomenon of LEE, KIRBY, DITKO, and others, from the company’s fumbling beginnings to the full maturity of its wild, colorful, offbeat grandiosity!
IN THE 1960s
(224-page trade paperback) $27.95
MODERN MASTERS
HOW TO CREATE COMICS
Covers how Stan Lee went from writer to publisher, Jack Kirby left (and returned), Roy Thomas rose as editor, and a new wave of writers and artists came in!
20+ volumes with in-depth interviews, plus extensive galleries of rare and unseen art from the artist’s files!
(224-page trade paperback) $27.95
Shows step-by-step how to develop a new comic, from script and art, to printing and distribution!
(128-page trade paperbacks) $14.95 each
(108-page trade paperback) $15.95
IN THE 1970s
A BOOK SERIES DEVOTED TO THE BEST OF TODAY’S ARTISTS
FROM SCRIPT TO PRINT
FOR A FREE COLOR CATALOG, CALL, WRITE, E-MAIL, OR LOG ONTO www.twomorrows.com
TwoMorrows—A New Day For Comics Fandom! TwoMorrows Publishing • 10407 Bedfordtown Drive • Raleigh, NC 27614 USA • 919-449-0344 • FAX: 919-449-0327 E-mail: twomorrow@aol.com • Visit us on the Web at www.twomorrows.com