Alter Ego #52 by TwoMorrows Publishing

Roy Thomas’ Pugnacious Comics Fanzine

JOE GIELLA THE FELLA WHO INKED

DC’S SILVER AGE!

(AND SOME GOLDEN AGE, TOO!)

6.95

In the USA

No.52 September 2005

ALSO:

JAY SCOTT PIKE &

MARTIN THALL

PLUS: PLUS:

Vol. 3, No. 52 / September 2005

™

Editor

Roy Thomas

Associate Editors Bill Schelly Jim Amash

Design & Layout

Christopher Day

Consulting Editor John Morrow

FCA Editor

P.C. Hamerlinck

Comic Crypt Editor Michael T. Gilbert

Editors Emeritus

Jerry Bails (founder) Ronn Foss, Biljo White, Mike Friedrich

Production Assistant

Eric Nolen-Weathington

Cover Artist Joe Giella

Cover Colorist Tom Ziuko

And Special Thanks to:

Heidi Amash Michael Ambrose Ger Apeldoorn Bob Bailey Mike W. Barr Tom Batiuk Alberto Becattini Philippe Benoist Bill Black Dominic Bongo Ray Bottorff, Jr. Steve Brumbaugh Jerry K. Boyd Bob Cherry Shaun Clancy James Clink Dwight Decker Gerry Desrosiers Mark Evanier Al Dellinges Roger Dicken & Wendy Hunt Michael Feldman Shane Foley Carl Gafford John Gentil Frank Giella Joe Giella Janet Gilbert Matt Gore Ron Goulart Arnie Grieves George Hagenauer Jennifer Hamerlinck Paul Handler Mark Heike Dave Herring Jonathan Ingersoll Glen Johnson Henry R. Kajawa Sam Kujava

Thomas C. Lammers Mark Luebker Boyd Magers Dan Makara Bob Maison Joe Marek Sheldon Moldoff Matt Moring Frank Motler Mark Muller Jose Carlos Neves Jerry Ordway Jake Oster John G. Pierce Jay Scott Pike Donald A. Rex Emir Ribeiro Ethan Roberts Herb Rogoff Steven Rowe Luiz Antonio Sampaio Mark Shainblum Robin Snyder Joe Staton Marc Swayze Martin Thall Greg Theakston Dann Thomas Alex Toth Jim Vadeboncoeur, Jr. Dr. Michael J. Vassallo Delmo Walters, Jr. Hames Ware Robert Wiener Tom Wimbish Jackie WolfEnrione Rodrigo M. Zeidan

This issue is dedicated to the memories of

Paul Cassidy & Al Kurzrok

Contents Writer/Editorial: ÒForHeÕsA Jolly Good GiellaÉÓ . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 ÒJoeGiella Is Like Fine WineÑHe Gets Better With Age!Ó. . . . . . . 3 The man who inked DC’s Silver Age, and lots more besides—interviewed by Jim Amash.

ÒComicArtists Could Draw Better Than Anybody in the World!Ó.. . 33 1950s-70s artist Jay Scott Pike speaks with Jim A. about his years at Marvel & DC.

ÒIWas All Over The Place, And Enjoying Every Minute Of It!Ó.. . 46 Martin Thall tells Mr. A. all about drawing comics in the 1940s and ’50s.

Comic Crypt: Remembering Will – Part Three . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 57 Michael T. Gilbert’s long association with Will Eisner—and The Spirit.

ÒDoThe Best Damn Work PossibleÓ.. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 63 Alex Toth defines the ever-shifting goals of 1940s comic book artists.

ATalkWithWriter,Educator,&ComicsFanaticGlenJohnson:PartTwo. 65 A prominent 1960s comics fan talks to Bill Schelly about Russ Manning and more.

re: [comments, correspondence, & corrections]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 71 In Memoriam: Al Kurzrok & Paul Cassidy. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 78

FCA (Fawcett Collectors of America) #110 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 81 P.C. Hamerlinck presents Marc Swayze, some Fawcett-to-Charlton footnotes, and a Brazilian encounter between Captain Marvel & The Human Torch!

About Our Cover: Jumpin’ Joe Giella drew this brand new cover especially for this issue of Alter Ego, spotlighting the three DC super-heroes with which he’s most closely identified, and a trio of their most dastardly enemies. For the full story behind this knockout illo, see p. 19—and to learn who christened him “Jumpin’ Joe Giella,” turn to p. 28. Three guesses, and the first two don’t count! [Art ©2005 Joe Giella; characters TM & ©2005 DC Comics.] Above: And thanks to Joe yet again, for sending us this splendid illo of the hero he says he most enjoyed drawing (or even just inking). [Art ©2005 Joe Giella; Batman TM & ©2005 DC Comics.] Alter EgoTM is published monthly by TwoMorrows, 10407 Bedfordtown Drive, Raleigh, N C 27614, USA. Phone: (919) 449-0344. Roy Thomas, Editor. John Morrow, Publisher. Alter Ego Editorial Offices: 32 Bluebird Trail, St. Matthews, SC 29135, USA. Fax: (803) 826-6501; e-mail: roydann@ntinet.com. Send subscription funds to TwoMorrows, NOT to the editorial offices. Single issues: $8 ($10 Canada, $11.00 elsewhere). Twelve-issue subscriptions: $60 US, $120 Canada, $132 elsewhere. All characters are © their respective companies. All material © their creators unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter © Roy Thomas. Alter Ego is a TM of Roy & Dann Thomas. FCA is a TM of P.C. Hamerlinck. Printed in Canada. FIRST PRINTING.

writer/editorial

“For He’s A Jolly Good Giella...” A

ctually, despite the irresistible pun above (well, irresistible to me, anyway), this issue is a triple-decker in terms of interviews, covering a wide spectrum of comics from the 1940s through at least the 1970s.

When Jim Amash and I confer by phone about all the material that’s stacking up in our drawers and PC files for Alter Ego—a considerable portion of which, of course, consists of the great interviews he does with comic book artisans of the Golden and Silver Ages—we occasionally get just this side of depressed when we think about how long some of it has sat on the cyberspace shelf, awaiting a berth in an actual issue of the mag. Recently we decided that, this month, along with an alreadyscheduled long interview with inking legend Joe Giella, we’d see if we could squeeze in a couple of shorter confabs, as well. Since so much of Joe’s career is bound up with DC Comics, from the Golden Age through the Silver and Bronze (whatever precisely that is), despite his earlier and later work for Marvel, we wanted to complement his interview with a pair of shorter ones, featuring folks more identified with other companies and characters. Jay Scott Pike certainly fit the bill—for, even though he became a mainstay of DC’s romance department in the 1960s, his well-crafted work for Timely/Marvel’s adventure titles in the 1950s particularly

intrigued us. Besides which, there was that offbeat “Dolphin” one-shot he wrote and drew for DC in the late 1960s, whose circumstances are related herein. And Martin Thall spent most of his decade in the comics field working for just about everybody except DC, and likewise has some great yarns to spin. So settle back and enjoy a well-rounded issue. DC—Timely/Marvel— Classics Illustrated—Hillman—ACG—Lev Gleason—MikeRoss—even Fawcett (and not just in the always-fascinating FCA section, either)— you’ll learn something about all those four-color dream factories, and the artists and writers and editors who kept them humming. All that—plus Bill Schelly talking to 1960s comics fan Glen Johnson about Russ Manning, Pete Morisi, et al.—Michael T. Gilbert’s visit with Will Eisner—and letters from talents as diverse as Alex Toth and Shelly (“Hawkman”) Moldoff—should make this issue of A/E worth any comic fan’s money. Okay, so maybe we had to start asking you for $1 more of it per issue… but we’re determined to earn it! And the subscription price hasn’t gone up a penny! Bestest,

COMING IN OCTOBER

DRACULA! FRANKENSTEIN! MIKE ESPOSITO! It’s Our HELLZAPOPPIN’ HALLOWEEN ISSUE!

• Direful all-new DICK GIORDANO Dracula cover! • Three Decades of Dracula—and Counting! Artist DICK GIORDANO, writer ROY THOMAS, & editor MARK BEAZLEY rap about the 1974-2005 dark genesis of Marvel’s undead Halloween hit Stoker’s Dracula! With behind-the-scenes stories and art! • DICK BRIEFER’s funny Frankenstein of the 1950s! A never-before-seen completelyillustrated story from that awesome artist’s proposed newspaper strip! • Our Gallery of Gruesomeness! A hunk of Halloween comic art by GENE COLAN, BERNIE WRIGHTSON, MIKE MIGNOLA, FRANK BRUNNER, STEVE BISSETTE, MICHAEL W. KALUTA, RUSS HEATH, JOE MANEELY, BILL EVERETT, STEVE DITKO, ERNIE SCHROEDER, ESTEBAN MAROTO, ALFREDO ALCALA, and others! • Fabled Golden/Silver Age inker MIKE ESPOSITO on his 1940s-50s work with peerless partner ROSS ANDRU on Mr. Mystery, Mr. Universe, Get Lost, Up Your Nose, etc.— with more amazing anecdotes than you can shake a Styx at—in the first part of a 2-tier interview by JIM AMASH! • Plus—FCA with MARC SWAYZE, JERRY DeFUCCIO, et al.—BILL SCHELLY on “1966— the Year of the Three Comicons!”—MICHAEL T. GILBERT’s Comic Crypt on Little Lulu (pretty scary, huh, kids?)—& MORE!! Edited by ROY THOMAS

SUBSCRIBE NOW! Twelve Issues in the US: $60 Standar d, $96 First Class (Canada: $120, Elsewher e: $132 Surface, $180 Airmail). NOTE: IF YOU PREFER A SIX-ISSUE SUB, JUST CUT THE PRICE IN HALF!

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“JOE GIELLA Is Like Fine Wine – He Gets Better With Age!” The Man Who Inked DCÕsSilver AgeÑ& Part Of The Golden Age, To Boot! Interview Conducted by Jim Amash

Transcribed by Tom Wimbish

his year marks Joe Giella’s 60th in the comic book industry— and we want to offer our congratulations to him (and to the industry) right up front! Joe was one of the most important inkers of DC Comics’ Silver Age. Joe’s slick, clean line graced the graphite etchings of many great pencilers, from Alex Toth to Carmine Infantino, Mike Sekowsky, Gil Kane, and beyond. Luckily for us, Joe tells us about the people he inked as well as what their pencil work was like—and the editors he worked for. From Hillman to Timely/Marvel to DC to his newspaper strip work on Flash Gordon, The Phantom, Batman, and Mary Worth, we also find out about Joe’s other non-comics work, showing just how diverse his talents run. There’s a lot to the Joe Giella story, and we’ve tried to cover the bases as best we could. Joe’s been long overdue for coverage in Alter Ego, and thanks to Berndt Toast Gang buddy Stan Goldberg (who’s helped me out more times than I can count), we’re finally able to remedy that situation. Thanks for sharing, fellas—and a special thanks to Joe for delineating some of the best DC stories of my childhood—and for being a good friend. —Jim.

ÒYouÕll Never Make A Living Doing Artwork!Ó JIM AMASH: Okay, Joe—you get to answer my usual first questions. When and where were you born, and when did you know you wanted to be an artist? JOE GIELLA: I was born June 27, 1928, in Manhattan, New York. I have three brothers and a sister, and I was the oldest. My love for art began in the late 1930s, when I was about 13 years old. We didn’t have any drawing pads at the time, so I’d draw on anything I could get my hands on. My mother would come home from the grocery store, and I’d tear apart the bags and draw on both sides of them. I would draw everything—I’d doodle cartoons, you name it. And of course, my teachers were constantly chastising me because I would sketch all over my books, and my parents were notified many times. I just liked to draw! I was influenced by Hal Foster’s Prince Valiant, Tarzan, and Alex Raymond’s Flash Gordon. I was also reading comic books at the time,

Joe Giella & Friends (Left:) Joe (in light jacket and dark shirt) hangs out a few years back with (l. to r.) ÒArchieÓartist Joe Edwards, DC editor Julie Schwartz, and JoeÕsson Frank. (Right:) Joe must like these guys, too, Õcausehe keeps drawing Õem!We suspect you may recognize them. [Art ©2005 Joe Giella; characters TM & ©2005 DC Comics.]

and I wish my mother had kept some of them. [laughs] The Batman was my favorite—I felt he had the best-looking costume—but I really liked the Timely Comics characters: Captain America, The Human Torch, and Sub-Mariner. JA: Why did you prefer them? GIELLA: As a kid, you fantasize about being The Human Torch or Sub-Mariner... you feel like you’re that character. You live within that character. I couldn’t wait for the issues to come out. I loved those characters. JA: So who were some of your classmates at the School of Industrial Arts that we would remember today? GIELLA: Well, Sy Barry—Tony Bennett the singer, who lived on my block—Al Scaduto—Emilio Squeglio—Paul Winchell, the ventriloquist—and Rudy LaPick. Rudy had a great sense of humor, but I didn’t

The Man Who Inked DCÕsSilver Age

The Marvel Mystery Tour ÒAs a kid, you fantasize about being The Human Torch or Sub-Mariner,Ó Joe recalls. He was eleven when The Human Torch roasted a police carÕstires in Marvel Mystery Comics #2 (Dec. 1939), and when Prince Namor commandeered the Statue of Liberty in #7 (May 1940)Ñwith art and story by creators Carl Burgos and Bill Everett, respectively. ThatÕswhat we call getting in on the ground floor! Thanks to Robert Wiener for beautiful photocopies of the former page; the latter is reproduced from photocopies of the original art. [©2005 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

hang out much with him. Tony Bennett—his real name is Anthony deBennedetto—we used to hang out with him on Ditmars Boulevard in Astoria. We used to buy him hot dogs. Ditmars was the last stop in Astoria on the IRT line, and that’s where we hung out. I never met Paul Winchell personally. He was a few years ahead of us at the School of Industrial Arts. So were Joe Kubert and Norman Maurer. Later, in the late ’40s, I went to the Art Students League with Kubert and a fella called Mike Sekowsky. An interesting story about Sekowsky: the instructor is going around the class, and comes to me to critique my drawing and offer his advice— then he goes to Kubert and helps him. Finally he comes to Mike Sekowsky and says, “What the heck is that?” Mike had completely ignored the model and had drawn a comic book figure. The instructor couldn’t believe it. Mike was very insulted, and never came back. John Romita and Les Zakarin also went to the school, but they didn’t hang out with our group. JA: Where did you get your start in comics? GIELLA: My first job was a freelance assignment for Ed Cronin at Hillman Publications. I penciled and inked a humor feature called “Captain Codfish.” I was 17 or 18. We were having problems at home

and I was the oldest, so I left high school three months before I would have graduated. Ed Cronin was a very nice gentleman; he spent a lot of time coaching me through my first job. I was a little nervous, but he put me at ease, and by the time I left Hillman, I felt pretty confident. I was concerned about the deadline, but he said, “Take your time, there’s no problem.” I only did that one job for Hillman, because I was really looking for a steady assignment with a weekly paycheck. Freelance assignments are sporadic, and you never know when you’re going to get your next job. My father was not too happy about my decision to be an artist. He thought I would become a city worker like most of my family—a cop, or fireman, or sanitation worker—for security reasons, and the beautiful pensions they get. I broke the family tradition by becoming an artist, you see. He couldn’t understand that, so for a while we were on the outs: “You’ll never make a living doing artwork!” But let me tell you, I helped save that house; I really did. Eventually, he realized how serious I was about art, and then he supported me. There was a period after Hillman Publications when I commuted by bus from Astoria to Englewood, New Jersey, to work on “Captain Marvel” with C. C. Beck and Pete Costanza, though I never met them. I did meet artist Nick Zuraw there, who I later worked with at Timely.

ÒJoeGiella Is Like Fine Wine––He Gets Better With Age!Ó

I also joined the Naval Reserves in 1948, when I was 17 or 18 years old. This was right before the Korean War broke out, and I can remember everybody saying, “Where the hell’s Korea?” We joined the Naval Reserves because we were crazy: we wanted to visit different countries. Each year, we’d go on a two-week trip, or a three-month trip. Then the war broke out, and wow, everything changed. There we were doing picket duty, looking for submarines, and going crazy worrying. We were in Puerto Rico the year before, and Cuba, when Battista was there. I was still able to do comics because, in the reserves, we’d go out on an annual cruise for two or three weeks, then come back to our regular jobs. I’d just take a sabbatical from work for the amount of time that I had to serve. I stayed in the reserves for eight years. We were on active duty during each cruise, but I never had to do any fighting.

ÒAllOf A Sudden, Mike Sekowsky Walked Into The RoomÓ JA: How did you get to Fawcett? GIELLA: I didn’t work on staff at Fawcett; any work I did for them was in a freelance capacity. I recall that they were sticklers for drawing Captain Marvel in C. C. Beck’s style. I was mainly inking, but probably doing a little penciling too. You’d have the style guide right there on your desk, and that head had to be exactly the way they wanted it. I only worked there for a short spell, maybe a couple of months,

Sekowsky By Winiarski? Artist Mike Sekowsky was caricatured (by fellow bullpenner Ed Winiarski?) in a mid-1940s Timely humor comic. In addition to drawing virtually every 1940s genre at Timely/Marvel, in late 1959 he became the original penciler of DCÕsÒJustice League of America.Ó Thanks to Jim Vadeboncoeur, Jr. [©2005 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

because I wanted something closer to home. Commuting by bus to Beck and Costanza’s studio in Englewood was a trip and a half. That’s why I made an appointment at Timely Comics, which was either in 1946 or ’47. The very first assignment that Stan gave me was a freelance job. I was looking for a staff job, but they’d test you out first to make sure they liked your work, and then they’d throw you in the bullpen. It was terrific training for a young artist, because you would do a little of everything: penciling, inking, coloring, a little lettering. It really was a great experience. Anyway, Stan gave me my first assignment, which was a crime story—probably a ten-pager—penciled by Mike Sekowsky. I took the story home, and guess what? I lost it on the train. Nobody in my family—myself, my father, mother, and brothers—nobody slept that night, because we figured that was the end of the job. The next day, I went in and told Stan about it, and he hit the ceiling. He called the IRT and BMT line subways, and no luck. Then he called in Robbie Solomon, who was the production manager, but he couldn’t help, either. And I thought that would be it for me at Timely. All of a sudden, Mike Sekowsky walked into the room. I’d never met him before, and didn’t even know that he’d penciled the job. Mike said, “Don’t worry about it, Stan. I’ll take care of the kid.” Mike must have recognized I had an urgent need for this job, so he re-penciled the story, and I inked it. Stan accepted it and gave me a staff position. I walked up to Mike and said, “Mike, I can’t pay you back right now, but I’ll take a little bit out of my check every week to pay you back.” Mike said, “No no no, forget about it.” And I thought, “Well, I’m not going to argue with this guy—he’s 6'3".” When I didn’t get fired after losing the story, and after another crazy incident, I thought, “Well, Stan’ll never fire me after this.”

Beck And Forth Although Joe doesnÕtremember specific stories, he recalls working on the WorldÕsMightiest Mortal for Fawcett circa 1946-47. So thereÕsat least a chance he may have worked with C.C. Beck and his studio on this tale from Captain Marvel Adventures #61 (May 24, 1946), one of four in the issue. [©2005 DC Comics.]

Mike and I became very good friends, right until the very end. He used to go out with an inker named Violet Barclay. She was a beautiful, voluptuous brunette—wow! But she preferred George Klein. So when Mike wasn’t with her, we would spend time going to Broadway plays together, and to bars... we just had a really good time. Now you see why I didn’t want to leave Timely Comics. I was very happy there. That was my home. JA: Did you feel as if Mike took you under his wing? GIELLA: Not exactly. Mike was a real tough guy, and he had a terrible temper, but he also had a heart of gold. He liked what I did to his work,

The Man Who Inked DCÕsSilver Age working on Flash Gordon then, but I couldn’t put him on that, because the styles would conflict. It was so sad. His first wife was Joanne Latta. When he met her, she was a writer in the magazine department at Timely. She was a tiny, goodlooking woman with glasses, blonde hair, and a nice figure. She looked like a schoolteacher or librarian. They lived in Levittown, New York, but Mike was probably not an easy guy to live with. I wish I knew what caused their separation. Something must have happened that was deep and penetrating to him; something very bad. When she left, she took the two kids and moved to Washington state, and he wasn’t able to see them.

I used to tell him, “Mike, I hope you’re saving your money, because at this rate, you’re going to get burned out.” And there he was, Hot Rods And Racing Artists looking for work. He had probably Both Frank Giacoia and Mike Sekowsky drew stories for Ziff-DavisÕ“Hot Rod” King #1-and-only (Fall 1952). Matter of spent all his money, and he was fact, Giacoia has two signed tales therein. Since Joe says he helped Giacoia out on many of his art jobs, and also often very sick. And you know the worked with Sekowsky, could be thereÕsa bit of Giella in them thar panels, as well. The issueÕscover, incidentally, outcome. Toward the end of his life, was a painting by pulp master Norman Saunders. For more about Ziff-DavisÕ1950s comics line, see Jim AmashÕs interview with Golden Age editor Herb Rogoff in A/E #43Ñstill on sale wherever back issues are soldÑlike, on pp. he drank a lot. He used to drink 44-45 of this very issue. With thanks to Donald A. Rex for the scans. [©2005 the respective copyright holders.] Jack Daniels, and he’d drink about three-quarters of a quart bottle a and we became buddies. He had a good sense of humor. However, he day. He’d have a bottle on his taboret. I think he drank because of did have a bad temper, and he drank. When I worked with him at Joanne. Timely, he was a social drinker. I would usually drink beer when we People either liked Mike, or they didn’t like him. If you really knew went out together, but he drank the hard stuff, and I could see right him, as I did, he would do anything for you. He would do anything for away that this guy could put it away. When he got a little high, his true me. And Mike loved Frank Giacoia; he thought Frank was the greatest. feelings would come out... his opinions about people. It was a release; all the venom would come out of him. JA: I’ve heard that Mike had a cutting, devastating sense of humor. Does anything come to mind about that? Many years later, I was working at DC Comics—mostly as an inker—but I also penciled and inked licensing work. One day, Dick GIELLA: We used to work at Frank Giacoia’s house, and Mike would Giordano asked me to take one of Mike’s jobs and kind of redo it, fix it always be coming up with jokes. His delivery was terrific; he knew how up. I looked at it, and thought, “Gee, there’s too much to work to do to tell a joke. We would discuss the other artists and editors, and make here; I’m going to have to re-pencil everything.” You see, Dick had gone fun of this or that guy. But Mike would never discuss his personal life to California to recruit some artists. He stopped in to see Mike, and with us. He seemed happy after he married Pat, his second wife. promised him a lot of work. When Mike sent the job in, Dick was very unhappy with it, so he gave it to me to try to salvage it. I made it clear to Mike had a heart of gold, though. I remember him lending money to him that this wasn’t an ink job, that it would have to be redrawn. Dick Frank Giacoia. Any time you were in the hole and needed help, there he said, “Ok, go ahead and do it, Joe.” I had to redraw about 75% of the was. He would never turn you down. But there were two sides to him. job. That’s how much Mike had deteriorated. He was really drinking That’s what was so sad about Mike: he wasn’t happy with himself. He then. wasn’t happy with his life. He loved the comics, really enjoyed it. He loved the scripts, and would really dig into them. Comics was his life, But that wasn’t the end of it. I delivered the job, and wouldn’t you and it’s just so sad. He was so myopic that he couldn’t see any further. know that the day I delivered it, Mike showed up at the office, all the way from California. The last guy I wanted to see that day was Mike Sekowsky, because of our previous affiliation and the debt I owed him. I said, “Mike, what are you doing here?” And Mike said, “Dick Giordano JA: Getting back to how you started at Timely: why did Stan give promised me a lot of work, but he didn’t come through, and I’m here to you an inking job? Were you looking for inking work, or just any talk to him about it.” Then he asked me what I was doing there. Well, I work? couldn’t lie to Mike; he was my friend. I said, “Mike, you’re going to be upset. They asked me to ink the job you sent in, and it was too rough. I GIELLA: I would do any work that they offered. When I joined the couldn’t just ink it; I had to rework a lot of it.” I thought he would hit Timely bullpen, I started out doing a little touch-up work, a little the ceiling, but he didn’t! After that, we just said goodbye; I don’t recall background work, a little inking, redraw this, fix this head, do whether we had dinner or drinks before we parted company. Later on, something with this panel... whatever. Later on, I assisted Syd Shores, he called me up from California, looking for work. I think I was who was drawing “Captain America” and a couple of other characters.

ÒJoe,Could You Pitch In On This Job?Ó

ÒJoeGiella Is Like Fine Wine––He Gets Better With Age!Ó

TimelyÕsNot-Quite-So-Big Three Joe recalls working on each of TimelyÕsthree major super-heroes in the later 1940s, during their waning daysÑnever doing a complete story, but inking a page here, repenciling a panel there. For that reason, weÕvereproÕdlast pages, rather than splashes, from one such possible ÒjamÓ issueÑ Marvel Mystery Comics #86 (March 1948). The ÒTorchÓ tale contains lots of nice moody blacksÑand Ye Editor found himself wondering if shadowy panels on some pages didnÕtbetray the work of a young Gene Colan. The ÒSub-MarinerÓ tale looks like pure Bill Everett, who often drew him wearing more than just swimming trunks. Syd Shores was the main ÒCaptain AmericaÓ artist during this era, and may have contributed to this outing. Oh, and there was a ÒBlonde PhantomÓ story in the 52-page issue, as well. [©2005 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

After about a year, I was mostly inking. A lot of fellows like Frank Giacoia, Sy Barry, and myself went to inking for monetary reasons. None of us started out intending to become inkers; we started out penciling. I was inking two to three pages a day, but I couldn’t pencil more than one. And you know, when you need money, you kind-of lean toward the inking. I could bring home $90 a week instead of $40. And after a while, you kind-of get typecast. To this day, I’m still slow at penciling, and I make up the time on the inking. JA: So you did “Captain America” several times in the ’40s, right? GIELLA: I didn’t do a complete story. I was in production at first. They’d say, “Joe, could you ink these two pages?” Or, “Joe, can you take care of the backgrounds on this?” Or, “Could you re-pencil this?” That was the extent of it. JA: You were on staff at Timely for about two years. What features did you work on?

The Man Who Inked DCÕsSilver Age could you pitch in on this job?” Most of the time, I would. JA: Who oversaw the bullpen? GIELLA: The editor that you were working for. There weren’t too many people in the bullpen. There was a humor bullpen in another room, but I was in the “adventure” bullpen with Syd Shores, Vince Alascia, Al Sulman, Al Bellman, and a feisty little fella named Bill Walsh. Nobody was really in charge of the room. An editor—maybe Al Sulman—would come in and say, “Joe could you work on this?” And I’d say, “Gee, I have to finish this first,” or “I’m doing this for Syd.” I have a story about Al Sulman. Al invited me to the Yale-Harvard football game. When we sat down, I noticed there was an empty seat, which was for Al’s girlfriend. And then we heard on somebody’s portable radio that there had been an airplane crash. It turned out that Al Sulman’s girlfriend was on board the plane, and she died in the crash. I think it was a year before Al came back to work. JA: Al Jaffe described Al Sulman as not having much of a sense of humor. Describe him for me. GIELLA: Yeah, he was serious. He had black hair, horn-rimmed glasses. He was a little on the chunky side. He wasn’t interested in athletics, and he ate a little too much. JA: At the time, Al Sulman was editing Captain America, some of the adventure comics, and maybe Westerns, too. So Stan was like the über-editor (for want of a better term), and Sulman was a full editor working under Stan, right?

The Merry Marvel Marching Society Ð 1947 Edition WeÕvepreviously printed this caricature of Stan Lee, which appeared in his 1947 book Secrets behind the Comics, but since Joe mentions him so prominently, here ÕtisagainÑalongside a page of the archetypal dumb blonde My Friend Irma, drawn by Dan DeCarlo. This 1950s TV/radio-licensed Timely title is the earliest place Roy T. recalls seeing the name ÒStan LeeÓ as a kid. RepoÕdfrom an Australian black-&-white reprint mag, with thanks to Mark Muller. [Caricature ©2005 Stan Lee; Irma page ©2005 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

GIELLA: “Captain America,” “The Human Torch,” “Sub-Mariner”... among others. I also did humor work. JA: In 1947, Stan Lee wanted to update “The Sub-Mariner,” and he asked Lee Elias to draw a couple of stories. Stan didn’t like the results, and had some bullpen guys rework the stories. GIELLA: I probably was one of them. I don’t recall ever getting an entire story to ink, though, and I don’t remember who I might have inked on “Sub-Mariner.” JA: What was it like to work on those characters when, just a few years before, you were buying their comic books? GIELLA: What a feeling! I was ecstatic! I was working on these characters that I had loved, enjoyed, and fantasized about. What a dream! I think they started me at $60 a week, and then it worked up to ninety. That was a lot of money back then. I’d get one check a week from Magazine Management, and I used to give my mother $50 out of that. JA: Was Stan Lee the only editor you worked for at Timely? GIELLA: I worked for Al Sulman and Al Jaffee, but it would have been in the same capacity as for the other editors. They would ask me, “Joe,

GIELLA: Right. Stan very rarely asked me to do anything directly; it was usually through another editor. I’d see Stan every day, though. He’d come into the room and look at what I was doing, and maybe look at what someone else was doing. Then maybe he’d blurt to one of the artists, “Can I get Joe on this other story?” And the artist might say, “No, he’s got to finish this first, Stan.” And maybe later that day Stan would come into the room and joke about something, or critique the work being done. Other times, Stan and Syd Shores would discuss future titles they would be putting out. Syd later became a taxi cab driver; that was so sad. I happened to see him while I was on jury duty back in the early ’70s, and he told me he was driving a cab because he couldn’t find work. Of course you know that he passed away many years ago. JA: Bob Deschamps said you guys used to make fun of Syd’s toupee. GIELLA: Not me, but the others used to.

ÒWhatDo You Remember AboutÉ?Ó JA: What were your impressions of Stan Lee at this time? GIELLA: I looked up to him. He had a sense of humor, and as I mentioned earlier, he didn’t fire me when he could have. We became very good friends. I went to see the first Superman movie with Stan. We were walking toward the theatre and I said, “Stan, what the heck are all these cops on horseback doing here?” And he said, “Gee, I don’t know, Joe.” So we walked into the theatre and sat down. Then Stan said to me, “Joe, y’know why all the cops were out there? Look ahead of us.” A couple of rows in front of us were Mayor Koch and Governor Carey. I saw Stan at San Diego when they gave me the Inkpot Award, and he jokingly said, “Joe, I should have fired you that day you lost that job on the train.” [laughter] He’d never forgotten it. I also used to see him at

ÒJoeGiella Is Like Fine Wine––He Gets Better With Age!Ó the King Features Christmas parties. I’m very fond of Stan. He was well-liked. I don’t know how other people felt, but he was very fair, he recognized talent, and he gave me a break. JA: There are a few magazine people I’d like to ask you about: Edith Maurer, Mel Blum, and Rona Barrett. GIELLA: Edith was in the romance book department: not comic books, but slick magazines. She was a co-editor with Mel Blum on slick magazines, along with Edith Brandt, who was the head of the department. Mel Blum was a weight-lifter, built like Arnold Schwarzenegger, and he was hard of hearing. I think Rona Barrett worked there, but I don’t remember her.

voice. I’m not sure, but I think he smoked cigars. We got along great. JA: So basically, you inked heroes, crime, adventure, and occasional humor. Did you do Westerns, war, or romance stories? GIELLA: I did romance stories, but I don’t remember doing any Westerns or war there. I also worked in a cabinet shop in order to supplement my income, but stopped when I started getting freelance from Timely.

JA: The only “official” credit I have for you at Timely in 1947 is “Willie,” as an inker. Do you remember it? GIELLA: “Willie” was a teenage feature they gave me to ink. I probably did it, but really don’t remember much about it. What I do recall about that time period was how they used to kid Gil Kane. The practical jokers gave him an assignment: while he was in the bullpen, they asked him to cut the corners of the pages—all the pages. Then they would ask him what he did all day, and Gil said “I cut the corners of the pages.” Then they’d say to him: “Who told you to do that?” [mutual laughter] Basically, they drove him nuts. These kind of things happened on a semi-regular basis; that’s why it was such a fun place to work. JA: Do you remember any of the teenage books that you might have worked on? Titles like Nellie the Nurse, Millie the Model, Patsy Walker, or Patsy and Hedy? GIELLA: Millie the Model—I remember that one. I worked on a lot of the features that Mike Sekowsky penciled, and he worked on all those characters. Mike liked Frank Giacoia and me to ink his jobs, because we used to take the time to fix up his work a little bit. It’s not that his pencils were rough, but sometimes they needed a little correcting in the anatomy or perspective. But you have to understand: Mike was a machine. The man could draw 6, 7 pages a day, and a lot of times there were more than six panels to a page. If a line went south once in a while, you just had to bring it back. We weren’t line-followers. We were trained to pencil, so we could take bad pencil jobs and bring them in line to what was acceptable. Mike Sekowsky was doing everything: romance, adventure, teenage, whatever. He and Bill Walsh and Nick Zuraw were in a tiny office adjacent to ours, and next to them was Stan Lee’s office. I wish I could remember what Bill Walsh drew. He was maybe 10, 15 years older than I was, and very good at drawing horses, because he was in the Cavalry in the Army. He used to tell me about horses, and I’d ask him questions about them. He probably drew Westerns at Timely. Nick was a burly fellow, stocky, with a rough

Doc V. Gives Us The Willies This foursome of splashes penciled by a young Mike Sekowsky for Willie Comics #9 (Aug. 1947) was inked by an even younger Joe Giella. Thanks to Dr. Michael J. Vassallo for the art from this Archiewannabe. He says this issue contains the only Timely work he can definitely identify as GiellaÕsduring this periodÑand take it from us, heÕslooked! [©2005 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

The Man Who Inked DCÕsSilver Age Millie And Hedy No, the above isnÕta typo for the long-running Timely title Patsy and Hedy (of which Ye Editor scripted the final issue in late 1965). It just indicates that this ÒMillie the ModelÓ splash, which Doc V. tells us was penciled by Mike Sekowsky, appeared in Hedy DeVine Comics #25 (Feb. 1948). Joe Giella confirms that he inked a ÒMillieÓ story or two, but thereÕsno way to tell if this is one of them. [©2005 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

GIELLA: I don’t think he was. Don Rico had a terrific ink style that I really loved. He was also a very good carpenter; I remember that because we used to talk about carpentry and cabinet-making. He penciled and inked, and had a beautiful, beautiful inking style. He would cut the point of the brush off and just work with the blunt part. JA: What do you remember about Dave Gantz from that time? GIELLA: Dave was always a very nice person. To this day, we’re still friends. He was very close with Al Sulman; they used to pal around together. JA: Do you remember anything about Allen Bellman? GIELLA: He was a pleasant guy. The thing I remember most about him was his inkwell. You know how you take your brush, dip it in your inkwell, and then you trowel it against a piece of paper to take the excess ink off? Well, he would trowel his brush on his inkwell, where it would cake up. But it caked up into a ball! I’m not kidding... it’d be as big as a tennis ball! And there was just a little tiny hole in the ball to dip the brush. Everybody used to kid him about it. He did mostly inking at Timely, as I recall. JA: What else do you remember about Syd Shores? GIELLA: He was a quiet guy. He seemed like a tough, George Raft type of guy, but he wasn’t; he was really nice. He used to talk about his war experiences; he had been in the Army. He was one of the top guys up at Timely. He was the Captain America artist. He taught me a lot about drawing and inking. I remember him teaching me certain things about light sources, and how to bring out a shape. It was great working there with those guys; I learned so much. Everybody was learning. JA: What do you remember about Robbie Solomon? GIELLA: Robbie Solomon was a slim, grey-haired gentleman, very serious, who was always called into Stan Lee’s office when there was a problem. He was like a production manager, and he was on top of everything. When I lost that story on the train, he was right there to handle the situation. Gary Keller was also in the production department, but I don’t remember anything about him.

Vince Alascia did most of Syd’s inking. He was kind of a nervous guy, but he was pleasant to be around. Vince, Syd, and couple other guys used to play cards during their lunch hour. JA: Anything about Bob Deschamps that you can add? GIELLA: He was very outspoken, tall, thin... and very talented. When he left Timely, he flew out to California in his

JA: Al Jaffe and Jim Miele were editors at Timely. What do you remember about them? GIELLA: Al was a very talented, jovial person. He had a great sense of humor and was always laughing—very easy to work with. Jim was editing when I started at Timely. I really was fond of him. He was very easy-going, and liked to drink. He used to work for Disney as an animator, and I did a lot of work for him, freelance and other assignments. I remember them telling me years later that, when he passed away, they found him at his desk holding his doctor’s business card. He died of a heart attack. He was such a nice guy, very easy-going. If you wanted work, he’d really try to help you. JA: Was Don Rico an editor while you were there?

A Timely Triptych Three powers-that-were from the late-1940s Timely bullpen. We think the lead figure in the panel above from Krazy Komics #12 (Nov. 1943) is Robbie Solomon, who, Joe says, served as a sort of office mangerÑ above left is later Mad writer/artist Al Jaffee, as drawn by Dave Berg for Stan LeeÕs1947 book (and as interviewed in A/E #32)Ñ while at left is a 1953 photo of Jim Miele, courtesy of Herb Rogoff. Krazy #12 page sent by Jim Vadeboncoeur, Jr. [Krazy panel ©2005 Marvel Characters, Inc.; Jaffee caricature ©2005 Stan Lee.]

ÒJoeGiella Is Like Fine Wine––He Gets Better With Age!Ó

own plane, eventually living there until he passed away. Bob and I used to socialize a little bit. We’d go out for drinks, or have lunch or dinner. A few times, I invited him to my parents’ home. [NOTE: To read about Bob’s adventure at Joe’s house, see the Bob Deschamps interview in A/E #20. —Jim.] JA: I interviewed him, and he told me a bunch of really funny practical jokes that everyone played on each other there. GIELLA: Oh, that place was unbelievable. You would have loved it, Jim. If you had a sense of humor, then that was the place for you. Stan Lee was the right editor, let me tell you. He was serious, but he had a real good sense of humor. Have you ever heard of John Cuddy? He was an inker, and his real name was John McGillicuddy. He was a very skinny guy with a mustache. We became good friends. My brother and I used to spend weekends with him in Rye, New York. He was related to Connie Mack, the owner and manager of the Philadelphia Athletics baseball team. He was an older man than I was; I was 17, and he was probably in his forties. JA: Rudy LaPick told me that Bob Stuart used to discuss politics with Pierce Rice.

Maybe ThatÕsWhy They Call It A ÒBULLpenÓ These two pages, also from Stan LeeÕs1947 tome (artist uncertain), depict the myths and the (alleged) reality behind TimelyÕsoffices. The very next page in the book was a diagram of the office layout; we printed it in A/E V3#6, accompanying Mike BarrÕsarticle on that invaluable little publication. [©2005 Stan Lee.]

GIELLA: Yeah. The conversation was always about politics, and movies, and what-not. They were always talking about something. I remember Bob and Pierce Rice, but nothing beyond that they worked at Timely. Sol Brodsky was a nice guy, who also did some editing. I remember that he used to call me and ask what was going on with Frank Giacoia. Frank had a problem; he just couldn’t deliver his work on time. Sol would say, “I’d give him all the work he wants, if he’d only deliver.” I would say that I helped Frank on 75% or 80% of his jobs. When Sol died, Frank and I went to his wake.

ÒDidYou KnowÉ?Ó JA: Did you know Gene Colan at Timely? GIELLA: We were good friends, but not while we were at Timely. We became friends at DC Comics; in fact, he invited my girlfriend (my wife now) and me to his home. I also remember that he had an automobile accident and totaled his dad’s car. He had fallen asleep at the wheel. JA: Do you remember a fellow named Mario Acquaviva? GIELLA: Yes. He was a stocky guy with a mustache, kind of goodlooking. He was a little older than me, and he did lettering and inking. He was a very pleasant guy; very nice to talk to, and nice to be around. JA: What can you tell me about Chris Rule? GIELLA: He was a very heavy, older fellow with grayish hair. He was a good friend of Mike Sekowsky’s, and worked in the same room with Mike. He was kind-of an intellectual. Ed Winiarski worked there, too. He was a good penciler who did humor features. He was also one of Mike Sekowsky’s friends.

Artie Simek was on staff at Timely. He lived in Queens, and he also used to work out of his bedroom; he had a little drawing table in there. I used to drive to his home and pick up jobs he’d lettered, then take them home and work on them. Fred Eng lettered there, too, though I don’t remember anything about him. Look, I don’t even remember what floor we were on. JA: The 14th. GIELLA: Yeah, that’s right. Listen to this: in all the years that I worked in the Empire State Building, I never went to the top until five years ago when my son Danny won an award for designing a poster for the NY City Marathon. He’s a graphic designer and they had an award ceremony for him there. JA: Do you remember Bill Savage? GIELLA: Yes; he lived out on Long Island. I don’t remember what he did, but I remember what he looked like. He had a full head of very thick, light brown hair. He was light-complected, and wore glasses. He had a good build, was average height, and was well-spoken. JA: Ezra Jackson? GIELLA: Yes. He went to school with Rudy LaPick and me, but I don’t know if he worked at Timely. I also remember Dave Berg from that time, though no stories about him come to mind right now. JA: Did you know George Klein at all? GIELLA: Oh, yeah. George was an inker, and we were good friends. He was very close friends with Chris Rule, too. George was a really handsome guy; he looked like a movie star. I’ll tell you who he looked like: Lex Barker. George was tall, had perfect posture, and blond hair. He always smoked a pipe. He was well-dressed, and always wore a tie. He was a very slow talker who came from Rockport, Massachusetts. My brother and I used to go up to visit him and his mother. He never married.

The Man Who Inked DCÕsSilver Age penciled the “Black Canary.” Those were all Julie Schwartz books. I was introduced to him when Frank took me to DC for the first time. Julie gave me work the very first day. Occasionally, I would do something for Murray Boltinoff or Jack Schiff, but 98% of the time, I worked for Julie.

A Flash of Green

JA: Actually, he did get married at the end of his life; Mike Sekowsky’s second wife Pat told me that he got married about six months before he died. GIELLA: Is that right? He died at an early age. I don’t know what he died of, but at times, his eyes would be yellow, as if he were jaundiced.

Sometimes itÕshard to figure out who penciled Golden Age tales, let alone who inked them. But we think Carmine Infantino penciled both the ÒFlashÓ story in Comic Cavalcade #26 (AprilMay 1948)Ñand the long-unpublished late-Õ40s ÒGLÓ tale which first saw print in the Silver Age Green Lantern #88 (Feb.-March 1972), most of whose splash is shown above, reproÕdfrom the black-&-white art. Whether Joe Giella or Frank Giacoia or someone else inked one or both of these, nobody seems to knowÑbut this is the kind of story Joe worked on under editor Julie Schwartz circa 1947-48. He apparently inked a couple of ÒJustice SocietyÓ chapters in All-Star Comics #50, as well, as noted in Roy ThomasÕAll-Star Companion, Vol. 1, still available from TwoMorrows (see ad on pp. 92-96). [©2005 DC Comics.]

JA: Did you ever deal with Martin Goodman? GIELLA: I met him a few times. We’d say hello, but that was it. He was in another echelon of the company. JA: How did you meet Frank Giacoia? GIELLA: I met Frank at Timely. He lived in Astoria, and I met him on the train platform one day. I had seen him up at Timely doing freelance, so I said “hello,” and we started to talk. Eventually we started meeting for the ride into Manhattan, and we became good friends. JA: Good enough friends so that he got you to move from Timely to DC. GIELLA: Yeah. He was my best friend. He was the best man at my wedding, and he lived a few miles away from me. He left Timely and went to DC, and he couldn’t rest until I got there. He was very persistent, saying, “Joe, you can do whole stories here.” I was very happy at Timely, but after a year of driving me crazy, Frank finally convinced me to go. And of course, Mike Sekowsky helped out, too. DC paid better than Timely, and I could do complete features there. Whether it was penciling or inking, I could complete it, and I wanted to ink because I could make more money.

ÒJulieSchwartz BooksÓ JA: As closely as I can determine, you started at DC in 1948, inking the “Flash,” “Green Lantern,” and “Black Canary” features. GIELLA: Okay, that’s probably right. I think Carmine Infantino

I remember saying to myself, “Boy, I have to do a good job on this!” It was a little different than working at Timely, because now I was doing complete jobs, and Julie was a stickler on deadlines. In fact, he used to say, “I could set my watch by Joe’s deliveries.” The only time I was late—in over thirty years of working with Julie—was when my father died. JA: Do you recall anything notable about inking the original “Flash” and “Green Lantern”? GIELLA: Well, I was happy that they put me on it, and I know Julie really liked my work. They kept giving me “The Flash” to do. JA: As the super-heroes faded out at DC, you moved over to Westerns. In the late ’40s and early ’50s, you inked Alex Toth on Jimmy Wakely and “Sierra Smith.” What do you remember about inking Alex’s pencils?

GIELLA: Oh, he was great. I feel that only once every hundred years, talents like Alex Toth and Neal Adams will come around. With Toth, his pencils are all there. There’s nothing to decipher; everything is there. He’s just terrific. I got to know Alex, but I had one bad experience with him. My friend Frank Giacoia had a problem: he could not work. He couldn’t get his work out, and he was always looking for freelance work. He’d come to me and say, “Joe, get a freelance job and we’ll do it together.” I didn’t like working that way, but he talked me into it. So I asked Julie for an extra job, and it turned out to be a Toth story. Frank rushed through his part of the job. Later, I ran into Toth in the hall, and he said, “Joe, what happened with that job?” He was kind-of teed off. I wouldn’t say anything; I just took the blame, and I always held it in. I told Frank, “I’m not going to do this anymore. It’s not right.” You don’t do that to any artist, especially Alex Toth. To this day, Alex doesn’t know about it. I’ve always told myself that, if I ever saw Alex again, I would tell him that. I guess I should have told him back then. I can’t blame Frank, though, because I was responsible for the job. JA: Did you and Alex ever discuss how he wanted to be inked, or get together for coffee, or anything? GIELLA: No, I really couldn’t go wrong inking his work; I’d just follow it. Maybe Julie would come up with a suggestion once in awhile, but not very much on Alex’s work. It was all there; he was just great. JA: Did you and Sy Barry work together very much in those days? GIELLA: On his brother Dan’s work, yes. On DC’s work, no. Gene Colan would come in with Hopalong Cassidy stories, and they’d give

ÒJoeGiella Is Like Fine Wine––He Gets Better With Age!Ó Hoppy, Gene, And Me Apparently, inkers Joe Giella and Sy Barry never fought over whoÕdink Gene ColanÕsHopalong CassidyÑSy wanted Joe to do it, and so did Joe! Whoever the embellisher, this splash from DCÕs issue #101 (May 1955) comes to us courtesy of French collector Philippe BenoistÑ who says he got it from the French Hopalong Cassidy #95Ñand, since Colan reportedly penciled all the ÒHoppyÓ stories from #86-117, itÕsa fairly safe bet it was penciled by Gene! [©2005 the respective copyright holders.]

Hopalong Cassidy, you had to make the character look like actor William Boyd. Did you find that to be more of a challenge than working on characters without real-world counterparts? GIELLA: You really have to put a lot more effort into the licensed characters, because there are going to be repercussions if you don’t. I remember spending a lot of time on Hopalong Cassidy heads. And Jimmy Wakely, ohhh boy... JA: Julie was your editor on these features. Would he ask you to change the pencils because of problems with the likenesses? GIELLA: Yes, he would do that. He would never go to the penciler; he would always come to me, because he knew I could pencil. He figured, “Joe can pencil; let him make a few changes.” If you made a few changes, though, there could be fireworks with the penciler. Julie would say, “Joe, I don’t like that head,” or, “I don’t like this,” or, “I don’t like that.” This was my problem with Julie. He didn’t want to go back to the pencilers because he didn’t want to antagonize them. I’m kind of easy-going, and Julie [still living at the time of this interview] gets away with a lot with me. Like today, when I called him up at the hospital, he said, “Don’t forget to ask Shirley to make me soup!” [mutual laughter] JA: Sy told me that Julie kept a book about all the people

one to me and one to Sy. JA: Sy didn’t enjoy inking Colan, because Colan would shade things with the side of the pencil and get a halftone, which could make his work difficult to ink. How did you feel about inking Colan’? GIELLA: I didn’t mind it. Gene worked a lot from photographs, but I feel a good inker would know what to delete. You have to know what stays and what goes. There’s a lot of ugliness in a photograph that you don’t want, and that’s not going to reproduce in the comics. You have to know what lines to pick, and what lines to ignore. That’s what got me so mad at Frank: with Toth’s pencils, it’s all right there in front of you, but all Frank was thinking about was the money. JA: Sy told me about an argument he had with Julie about inking Colan’s work, and that led to you helping Sy on Hopalong Cassidy. GIELLA: Yes, everybody has his own experience. I know that Sy liked inking Toth’s work, and who wouldn’t? I also know that Alex liked Sy’s inking, so there was no problem on that end. JA: When you worked on

Quick On The Trigger Two Giella-inked 1950s Western splashes, both ©2005 DC Comics. (a) First page of the cover story from All-Star Western #76 (April-May 1954), the comic which three years earlier had picked up the numbering of the canceled All-Star Comics with #58. Art by Gil Kane (pencils) & Joe Giella (inks); script by Lee Goldsmith. ÒThe Trigger TwinsÓ had the unique gimmick of starring a principled but accident-prone sheriff, and the identical twin brother who had to take his place and save his bacon in virtually every issue. In this relatively unusual tale, Wayne Trigger had to break out of jail (kayoing Walt and changing clothes with him) to prove his own innocenceÑ all in 5H pages! With thanks to Bob Maison for sending me the All-Star Western IndexÑand to Bob Bailey and Jonathan Ingersoll, for putting me in touch with Bob. (b) ÒNighthawkÓ splash from the all-reprint Johnny Thunder #2 (April-May 1973). Note the added credits, which hadnÕt appeared in its original 1958 printing. [©2005 DC Comics.]

The Man Who Inked DCÕsSilver Age check for you. When I gave him a job, the check was in my hand. He liked the way I was very punctual on the job, and we became pretty good friends. He came to my wedding. I went to his wife’s wake. It was a good relationship. He was tough, but I understood him, and he understood me. He was fair with me, but he could be cantankerous. JA: Sy said that once Julie had your role in things fixed in his mind, he wouldn’t deviate from that. GIELLA: Yeah, Julie was like that. JA: How was Julie when you would come to him with a problem? GIELLA: Well, I had a problem: one time I needed some money. I went to Julie and said, “Julie, I want to go to Irwin Donenfeld, because I need some money.” Julie set it up for me, and I walked into Irwin’s office. I think I needed about $5000, and they wrote the check right there. After that, every time I brought in a job, they just deducted a little bit from my check. Julie could have put the kibosh on that, but he opened the door for me to go in and see Irwin.

Ò[CarmineInfantino] Was A Great Layout ManÓ Julie & Grundy

who worked for him, and that next to Sy’s name in the book, Julie had written “Repair Contractor,” because he could go to Sy when somebody’s pencils needed fixing. Were you in that category, too?

We ran a zillion photos of the late and legendary Julius Schwartz back in our tribute issues #38 & #40, so hereÕsa 1989 portrait of him (no, not the monsterÑ JulieÕsthe one directly above!) as drawn by his friend, artist Gil Kane. Juxtaposed with it are pp. 1-3 of the JLA-JSA team-up in Justice League of America #92 (Sept. 1971). Art by Dick Dillin (pencils) & Joe Giella (inks), script by Mike FriedrichÑ reproÕdfrom photocopies of one autographed page of original art, courtesy of Joe & Frank Giella, and of some Oz b&w reprints, thanks to Mark Muller. Oh, and gracias to Jerry K. Boyd for digging up the Kane drawing. [Caricature ©2005 Estate of Gil Kane; JLA pages ©2005 DC Comics.]

GIELLA: Yeah, I think so. And there was usually no extra pay for it, either. However, they paid me extra that time when I repenciled Mike Sekowsky’s entire job. Normally, I was making about $16 a page then. JA: What did you think of Julie as an editor? GIELLA: He was a no-nonsense, tough editor, but he always had that

JA: You inked some romance comics for editor Phyllis Reed. What do you remember about her? GIELLA: She was very tall, and very nice to talk to. She was average-looking, with very dark hair. I also did a few jobs for [her fellow editor] Zena Brody. In fact, I did a few jobs for all the romance editors, but very few. Most of my work was for my primary editor, Julie. JA: Did you work for Robert Kanigher at all?

GIELLA: Occasionally, I would do a few things for Bob. He was rough to work with, but not to me. A lot of people say, “Yeah, he was rough,” or things like that, but I never had a problem with him. Never! Julie couldn’t stand sharing an office with him. They arranged their desks so they were sitting back-to-back, so they wouldn’t have to look at each other. I don’t think they cared for each other. I would also hear the abuse the artists would get from Bob. Sam Burlockoff, who was a very nice guy, had problems with Bob, and he wasn’t the only one. Julie used to aggravate Kanigher a lot of times, because Julie was a

ÒJoeGiella Is Like Fine Wine––He Gets Better With Age!Ó

A Carmine For All Seasons Silver Age Flash artist/co-creator Carmine Infantino (on right in photo) and fellow Golden Age artist Irwin Hasen (Green Lantern, All-Star Comics, et al.) smile for the camera at the April 2005 Big Apple Comic Con in Manhattan; photo courtesy of Jim Murtagh & Keif Simon. We’re smiling, tooÑat a double scoop of Infantino artistic magic, thanks to Aussie b&w reprint pages sent by Mark Muller & Shane Foley: (Above left:) A classic Infantino/Giella splash from The Flash #128 (May 1962); script by John Broome. Thanks to Ray Bottorff, Jr., and the Grand Comic Book DatabaseÑsee the GCDÕsad in every issue of A/E. (Above right:) A too-rare page penciled and inked by Infantino from the very first solo ÒElongated ManÓ story, in Detective Comics #327 (May 1964). InfantinoÕsFlash inked by Giella, Giacoia, and Kubert is classic stuff, of courseÑbut we concur with Neal Adams in relishing CarmineÕsinks, as well! Writer: Gardner Fox. Thanks to Shane Foley & those Australian black-&-white reprint mags. [©2005 DC Comics.]

creature of habit. He used to call his wife at the same time every day and affectionately ask, “How are you,” and things like that. Bob used to get really teed off at him for that. Why, I’ll never know. The guy’s calling his wife; big deal. But it was every day at a certain time. You could set your clock by the call. Maybe that was what aggravated Kanigher. Kanigher really should have been in his own little room.

GIELLA: Well, Carmine was not an inker. Neal Adams said, “Carmine should ink his own work.” When they asked somebody to ink Carmine and try to change him, it invariably becomes a little different. I did the best I could, and Carmine and I worked together for many years. He really is a very good layout man, with a good, simple, unique way of telling a story.

JA: What did you think of Carmine’s work when you started inking him?

JA: I understand that Carmine’s pencils were sometimes a little sketchy, and that he didn’t spot any blacks.

GIELLA: I noticed right away that he was a great layout man. He had his own style, and I always felt that he should be doing the inking on his work. Julie would tell me to fix this or fix that, and I’d say, “Julie, that’s his style; let it alone.” One time I said to Julie, “Why don’t you let Carmine change it?” Julie said, “Oh no, he’s too sensitive.” [laughs] And I thought, “Thanks a lot.”

GIELLA: His concentration was on the layouts; that’s what he excelled at. In order to be a good inker, you have to know how to pencil. You don’t want to be a line follower. If you go over somebody’s work and just trace it, you’re a line follower. If the guy makes a mistake, you’re just going to follow it. A good inker will take a penciler like Mike Sekowsky or Carmine, and he’ll embellish his work; he’ll make a slight change where it’s needed. If he does hair, it’ll be flowing in the wind. I would try to capture that, and still keep the penciler’s style. I enjoyed working on Carmine’s pencils.

JA: I’ve heard that Julie didn’t like Carmine’s inking. What did you think of his inking?

The Man Who Inked DCÕsSilver Age

Before The Silver Age FlashÑA Guy Named Gordon Joe sent us a photocopy of the original art of this Flash Gordon daily on which he inked backgrounds. The date is May 5, 1955. [©2005 King Features Syndicate, Inc.]

A while back, Carmine and I did a re-creation of a cover for Skip Farrell, the president of the Pepsi-Cola Bottling Company in Vermont. I enjoyed working on it; it brought back a lot of memories. JA: John Belfi once told me that Carmine used to really dig into the paper.

I’ll tell you a story about Dan. He would be rough with you, but if you stood up to him, he’d do an about-face. I was working with Dan on Flash Gordon, probably in the early ‘80s, and I had worked up to where the bill was about $1400, which was a lot of money back then. He was

GIELLA: He used a hard pencil lead, like a 2H. That’s what happens when you use a hard lead and you have a heavy hand: you’re going to dig into the paper. Most of it is covered with the ink, anyway. Carmine just followed his own pencil lines in ink. When Gil Kane inked his own work, he would use a magic marker, and he would just trace his lines. The guys who inked Gil and Carmine—me, Frank Giacoia, Murphy Anderson, and Seymour Barry—weren’t line followers. Seymour didn’t work for DC exclusively, because he was mostly working on Flash Gordon with his brother Dan. Then he had The Phantom strip for over thirty years, and I know that he didn’t do anything else, because for 17 of those 30-some years, I worked on The Phantom with Seymour. A lot of people don’t know this. JA: Sy worked for DC for most of the ‘50s, though. GIELLA: Well, I’m sure he worked for DC for ten years, at least. But I know that he worked on Flash Gordon with Dan, because I worked with him. When Dan was in Germany skiing, Sy and I did the strip. JA: The credit I have for you on Flash Gordon says that you worked on the strip in 1957, and again in 1970. It sounds like you did more than that. GIELLA: Yes, I did more than that, but I can’t pin it down. Dan Barry also called me for work one time when he was living in Georgia in the ’90s. That was near the end of the line for him. Let me tell you, I learned a lot from Dan Barry. He taught Seymour and me a lot. He was tough to work with, but he was fair. My family couldn’t afford to educate me. I learned from second-hand anatomy books, working until 2:00 or 3:00 in the morning. That’s how I learned. Then I learned a little bit from Mike Sekowsky, some from Syd Shores, and some from Dan Barry. Every job I’d do, I’d try to do better than the last. I can remember Dan saying, “Joe, dig into this job. Dig in. If you think it’s finished, go back to it. There’s something more you can add to that. Watch this.” He’d take a pencil and start adding it in, and I’d think, “Oh man, he’s right.” He’d say, “See, the line weights and the shadows bring this shape out.” I’m not going to mention any names, but I’d ask people what kind of pen they used, or what brush, and they’d lie to me. Those people were insecure. I was a 16- or 17-year-old kid; I wasn’t going to take their jobs away. But they’d give me the wrong information. Dan Barry, though, he always helped me.

Faster Than A SpeedingÉ Flash! Easily the most important tale of the Fastest Man Alive that Joe Giella ever inked is the full-length ÒFlash of Two WorldsÓ in The Flash #123 (Sept. 1961). This interior splash by Gardner Fox (writer), Carmine Infantino (pencils), and Joe Giella (inks) justifies the famous cover scene, which was probably done first. Interesting that Gardner had the original, older Flash (whom heÕd co-created in 1939) outsprint the younger speedster, whoÕdfirst been scripted by Robert Kanigher in 1956. ReproÕdfrom photocopies of the original art, courtesy of Mike W. Barr. [©2005 DC Comics.]

ÒJoeGiella Is Like Fine Wine––He Gets Better With Age!Ó

17 JA: It was supposed to be a secret that Shelly Moldoff was penciling “Batman” stories, because Bob Kane was claiming that he had penciled them.

GIELLA: Yeah, well, he was wrong. Everybody knew it was Shelly’s work. Let me tell you a story about Bob Kane. He asked me to do some side work for him, pertaining to his TV appearances on Saturdays. He would say, “Joe, give me a few of the characters: Batman, The Penguin, and some of the other villains; just sketch them very lightly on the pad,” and he’d pay me for them, you know. He would go on TV on Saturdays, and he’d have the sketchpad on an easel, and in front of the kids, ÒÔBatmanÕWas Probably My Favorite FeatureÓ he’d finish my drawings. It In the mid-1960s ÒNew Look,Ó Joe inked ÒBatmanÓ tales penciled by both Carmine Infantino and Bob KaneÑor rather, in the latter would look like he was case, Sheldon Moldoff drawing as if ÒBob KaneÓ had been asked to imitate Infantino. ÒThe Castle with Wall-to-Wall Danger!Ó drawing it from scratch, debuted in Detective Comics #329 (May 1964), and is now on view in DCÕshardcover Dynamic Duo Archives, Vol. 1. ÒA Touch of but he was going over my Poison Ivy!,Ó penciled by Moldoff & inked by Giella, originally appeared in Batman #183 (June 1966). Both pages come to us via blue pencils. I can Mark Muller and b&w Australian mags; the ÒCastleÓ credits were originally added for a US reprint title. Thanks to Carl Gafford for the Õ66ID. [©2005 DC Comics.] remember my kid saying, “Gee, Dad, that’s not fair. living in South Kent, Connecticut, at the time, and he was married to That’s your work.” I’d say, “Well, you have to understand; those are his this nice, Swedish lady. She was so pretty, such a nice woman. They characters.” divorced later. Anyway, I said, “Danny, this bill is up to $1400, and I JA: Were Shelly’s pencils tight or loose? need that check. I’m going to come up there, Dan, and I’m sorry, but I’m not going home without the check.” He knew I was mad, and he GIELLA: They were tight. It was just that the camp style was a little said, “All right, you come up, and I’ll have the check for you.” I went difficult. I looked at it as just a job that I had to do. up there, and he had the check for me. Mort Weisinger liked what I did with “Batman” in the comics, so he JA: Gil Kane said that, in the 1950s, the house style at DC was set by wanted me to pencil and ink the Batman newspaper strip in the 1960s. Alex Toth and Dan Barry. Julie didn’t like the idea, because it meant that he would be losing me. He said, “Joe, you’re not going to like working for Mort.” Well, he was GIELLA: Yeah, I would agree with that, but no one ever approached me right about that. Mort was a tough guy to work with; I quit twice, and and asked me to work in any style but my own. we haggled over money. I told Mort that I wanted $40 or $50 more per week on the thing, but he wouldn’t do it. I think he went up $20, and DC supplied the paper. Big deal. Here’s how we worked it out: we had Milt Snappin do the lettering, they colored the strip for me, and they JA: You did a lot of science-fiction for Julie: Strange Adventures, also gave me Craftint paper to work on. That’s very expensive paper. I “Adam Strange,” things like that. Did you have a favorite genre at did the strip for close to 4 years. Julie never liked the idea that I left him DC? to work with Mort, even though the two of them were friends. Julie had a schedule, and God forbid you deviated from his schedule, or he’d get GIELLA: Not really; I enjoyed every feature that I worked on. into a panic. Mort wanted me on the strip, though, and The Ledger “Batman” was probably my favorite feature, though not so much when I Syndicate wanted me on the strip. They tried Carmine, and somebody was inking Sheldon Moldoff. That was a little tough, because it was else who I don’t recall, but they settled for me. more of a camp style. That was also a problem with the Batman

ÒÔBatmanÕ Was Probably My Favorite FeatureÓ

newspaper strip; they wanted me to work in a camp style, too. It was a little tough for me, but I finally got the hang of it.

Julie knew I could diversify, take a job and make it look pretty decent. I was alternately inking “Batman” stories by Carmine and Shelly Moldoff, who were like night and day. I think the “Batman” was always my favorite, but I liked The Flash and Green Lantern. I still get fan letters pertaining to these characters. I got three today. Fans still remember.

JA: Did you always pencil and ink the Batman strip, or did you sometimes ink somebody else on it? GIELLA: Carmine tried out for the strip with me doing the inking; finally they decided to let me both pencil and ink it. JA: Why was Mort Weisinger in charge of the newspaper strip when Julie was the “Batman” editor at DC?

The Man Who Inked DCÕsSilver Age JA: Did it bother you that you had to sign Bob Kane’s name to the strip every week? GIELLA: The way I used to deal with it was to draw maybe a bread truck in the background, and put my name on it. When they wanted me to do Mary Worth, I asked, “Am I going to be able to sign this strip?” They said, “Oh absolutely, you have to sign it,” and I said, “Okay, I’ll take the deal.” JA: When you worked on the Batman strip, did you have help?

GIELLA: Occasionally I did. I had Curt Swan pencil a couple of weeks’ worth of strips. I had to have help when my dad passed away, Wanna See Batman Strip? or whenever someone in the A quartet of Batman newspaper dailies drawn by Joe Giella as ÒBob KaneÓ in 1966-67, after the Caped Crusader had briefly family was ill. I didn’t take become the hottest thing on TV. The Catwoman strip is from the first story arc drawn by Joe, in 1966, and was sent by many vacations, I’ll tell you collector Henry R. Kujawa (who asks, ÒHow come Catwoman never looked this good in the comic books of the time?Ó) The that. This business is other three dailies, all from 1966-67, were provided by Joe and his son Frank. Were all these scripted by Whitney Ellsworth? lucrative for very few people. [©2005 DC Comics.] I always had a job, but I GIELLA: It had to do with the syndication. John Higgins was the guy never made big money. That’s why I had to go to DC once and ask for a at The Ledger Syndicate, and Mort Weisinger was in charge of the loan; everything was just caving in on me. Batman syndicated strip. Everybody warned me, “Don’t do it, Joe, you JA: I think it’s amazing that they did that for you. won’t be happy working for this guy.” He liked what I did on the strip, but the problem was the money. The pie was cut in too many ways. I GIELLA: Irwin Donenfeld was great. He invited Carmine, Irwin Hasen, couldn’t put my name on the strip; I had to put Bob Kane’s name on it. and myself to go out on his yacht. We were on his boat the weekend So after Bob, DC, The Ledger Syndicate, and God knows who else took Marilyn Monroe supposedly committed suicide, sailing up and down their slice, there wasn’t much left for me. Long Island. Irwin Donenfeld was good to me. He was very easy-going, I worked on the strip with Whitney Ellsworth. He was good to me, and wanted me on the strip, too. He wrote the strip, and was a good writer. We worked together on it for close to four years, and we kept calling each other after he moved to California. I remember him saying, “Joe, I want you to design the Batman Hilton Hotel,” which I did. Jack Benny was in the strip at that time. I remember designing the swimming pool in the form of a bat. We spoke about 3 or 4 times a month while he was in California. I loved working with him. He was a gentleman, a very nice guy. He was the complete opposite of Mort. [laughter] Someone once said, “Joe, somebody can’t get along with you, there’s something wrong with them.”

ÒJoeGiella Is Like Fine Wine––He Gets Better With Age!Ó

here, and it’s time to start looking around. Everyone should be making preparations to do something else.” At the time, I had two kids, and I couldn’t start roaming around, looking for other jobs. You need to check around every week when you do that. So I stayed, but I probably shouldn’t have.

easy to talk to. He didn’t look down on us. I never regretted going to DC. The work was always there, and if I wanted a little extra work, they gave it to me. Then I went into the licensing department with Terri Cunningham. We became good friends.

JA: How much of that loyalty was for the company, and how much was for Julie?

Carmine and I used to go out to lunch and dinner, and we socialized a little bit. One time, Carmine, Joe Kubert, and I went to Canada, many years ago, when we were younger. Joe Kubert was driving his old Town and Country station wagon. We went to Montreal and Toronto, and had a great time while we were there. On the way home, we encountered a major snow storm. Someone stopped us and said, “Hey, you’re going the wrong way.” We were heading right into the storm. We were joking around so much, we didn’t even realize what we were doing. That’s when the fun was over. We started to get scared, but we managed to get out of it, and headed in the right direction.

ÒILiked The New Versions [Of Flash And Green Lantern] BetterÓ JA: After inking the Golden Age “Flash” and “Green Lantern,” how did you feel about inking the new versions of the characters in the late ’50s?

GIELLA: I would say it was about 5050, because Julie and I had gotten pretty close, and he was depending on me for a lot of things. JA: Did Julie ask for your opinions on anything?

When DC Titans Clash! Look familiar? This is the original version of the Joe Giella illustration which, redrawn and somewhat repositioned, became this issueÕscover. This earlier rendition was done a few years back as a commission piece for Arnie Grieves. The collector showed it to Ye Editor at a Heroes Con in Charlotte, NC, and Roy planned to use it as the cover for this issue. However, when the time came, Joe preferred to do a new, slightly different version of the illo, with Batman at the top, plus several other changes. (There was even another, intermediate version!) Thanks to JoeÑ and to Arnie for his part in helping us find the perfect cover for this issue! [Art ©2005 Joe Giella; Batman, Green Lantern, Flash, Joker, Sinestro, & Captain Cold TM & ©2005 DC Comics.]

GIELLA: I’m sure he did, though I can’t remember any specific instances now. We would talk while we were having lunch, and we ran the gamut on everything. I didn’t play in his lunchtime card games, though. I think he played mostly with the staff artists. He played with Milt Snappin, the fellow who lettered my Batman newspaper strip. He’s passed away since, but he was a nice fellow. I thought I was easy-going, but Milt was really easy-going.

Ò[GilKane] Had A Very Strong StyleÓ JA: I don’t think we’ve talked about Gil Kane’s pencils yet.

GIELLA: I liked the new versions better. A lot of people don’t agree with me; I’ve done a few paintings of the older versions for fans. The newer versions were designed better, though. And I really liked Carmine’s versions, I liked what he did with the characters, and I felt he improved them considerably. He had a more modern style.

GIELLA: Right. He had a very strong style. I loved the way he laid out a page. A lot of people could call it faking, but I don’t think it was faking: he could utilize space like no one I know, and really make it interesting. He was a good layout man. I didn’t care too much for his inks because he used markers.

I also enjoyed working with Gil Kane. He was penciling the Green Lantern at the time the changes were made. When we were at DC getting our work, the editors made sure we were aware that the costumes had changed; they really emphasized this with us.

I like to use a number of pens and brushes, and I wouldn’t want to stick with just one. I use a Hunt 100 pen point, and at DC I was using a Gillott 659, but I constantly experiment. I just purchased a Hunt 103 at Pearl. Everyone’s hand is different; some people ink like they have dumbbells tied to their wrists. But really, you can ink with a broom as long as you know what you’re doing.

JA: By this time, you were working solely for DC as a freelancer. Did you feel loyalty toward the company, or feel that the company had any loyalty toward you? GIELLA: At the time, they were giving me enough work, and the check was there every week. I didn’t have to wait; Julie had the check in my hand as soon as I delivered my job. I felt that it wasn’t necessary to look around for something better. It isn’t a good idea to put all your eggs in one basket; you never know what’s going to happen. To this day, I tell young artists to diversify. At the time, though, I was happy with what I was doing, and maybe I didn’t know enough, but I was getting enough work, so I stayed with DC. If I had to do it over again, I wouldn’t have done it that way, because in the late ’70s, Neal Adams told me, “Joey, the writing’s on the wall up

JA: I agree, though I stick with the Hunt 102. [After a brief discussion about pen points...] So, what do you remember about Gil personally? GIELLA: Gil was very tall and very suave, and he was always welldressed. He was very articulate. I got along with him; he was great. Once, I was at his house, assisting him on a job. I was rinsing out my brush in the bathroom, and he came running in and said, “Joe, Joe, don’t wash the brush in the sink!” I guess maybe his wife would have chastised him, or something. We used to have lunch together with Julie. One time we were in this restaurant called Chandler’s: Julie, Gil, Frank Giacoia, me, and maybe a

The Man Who Inked DCÕsSilver Age

ÒJoeGiella Is Like Fine Wine––He Gets Better With Age!Ó

Bob, Irv, & Joe Comic books are about storytelling, not just covers and splash panelsÑso, to illustrate JoeÕsinking of Bob Brown and Irv Novick, here are a pair of multi-panel pages. ÒThe Slowest Man on Earth!,Ó penciled by Novick and scripted by Cary Bates, first appeared in The Flash #220 (Feb.-March 1973)Ñwhile ÒBatmanÕsEvil EyeÓ was penciled by Brown and written by Frank Robbins for Detective Comics #389 (July 1969). ReproÕdfrom b&w Australian reprint pages sent by Mark Muller; thanks to Ray Bottorff, Jr., and the GDC for added info. [©2005 DC Comics.]

few other people. This was back in the ‘50s, when DC was at 480 Lexington Avenue. Gil ordered a hamburger well done, and the hamburger came out well done. Gil called the waiter over and said, “No, no, I want this well done.” The thing already looked like a hockey puck, it was so well done. You should have seen what it looked like when they brought it back. And he ate the whole thing. [laughs]

JA: Now that you mention him, what about Irv Novick?

JA: Did the pencilers talk to you about how you inked their stuff?

I never got to ink Joe Kubert, because he inked his own work. Joe’s one of my favorite people. He’s truly genuine; a really nice guy. I run into him at an occasional convention or wake, and we reminisce. I think Joe is a great inker, I really feel that way. Joe has a very strong style, like Jack Kirby or Irv Novick. Sure, I would have liked to work on Joe’s stuff, but I feel that the best inker for Joe’s work is Joe.

GIELLA: Bob Brown used to comment that he liked what I did on various jobs. Bob had his own [musical] band. He was a slim, gray-haired gentleman; very nice personality, very pleasant. His drawing was similar to Irv Novick. If you had problems inking Bob’s pencils, something was wrong with you, because it was all there. It was just great.

GIELLA: I didn’t see much of him. When I did see him, he was very energetic. He came from the advertising business, and his work was just dynamic. In fact, I have a couple of his originals that I worked on hanging in my office. That’s how highly I think of his work.

Citizen Kane [On Opposite Page:] Gil Kane (in photo from FOOM Magazine #3, 1973) and 4 of his pages inked by Joe Giella, starting with a ÒDon CaballeroÓ page from All-Star Western #59 (June-July 1951). Scripter unknown. Actually, collector Ethan Roberts, who owns the original art to the entire story, disclaims all knowledge of who the inker might be, but Ye Editor suspects Joe, so in it goes! As for 1964 Green Lantern pages: Gil much preferred his rendering of that hero in the latter 1960s, by which time heÕdbecome a true master of the super-hero form in motionÑyet it was his classic (and quieter) version in the first half of the decade that established GL as one of DCÕstrend-setting titles, with inking usually by Joe Giella and scripts generally by John Broome. Joe inked these two stories (from GL #27 & #28, March & April 1964, respectively)Ñbut both were scripted by editor Julie SchwartzÕsother major early Silver Age writer, Gardner Fox. The non-splash page from the ÒSharkÓ tale actually gave Gil a chance to have GL throw two punches on the same page! Usually, Julie insisted the hero use his Power Ring to end fights, and Gil chafed under that restriction. The silent 6th panel is rare for Õ64,too. All 3 pages reproÕdfrom Aussie b&w reprints, with thanks to Mark Muller; you can see them in color in the hardcover Green Lantern Archives, Vol. 4. And you should! [©2005 DC Comics.]

The Man Who Inked DCÕsSilver Age

ÒFrank[Giacoia] Wanted To Pencil, But He Had A Mental BlockÓ

hurt by it. People forget all the good things you do. For years, I’d never turned him down, and a lot of times he never even paid me. To this day, he owes me money, but when you love someone, you just kind-of let it go. I don’t know what happened to him that day.

JA: Was there anybody that you never inked, but wish you had? Like Jack Kirby?

A couple of months later, my doorbell rang, I went to the door, and there was Frank. He said, “Put the Vital Brew on.” The Vital Brew was demitasse, because we used to drink black espresso. I smiled, invited him in, and we never discussed the incident. He knew he’d done wrong, but he couldn’t apologize. I wasn’t going to chastise him. I just made out like it never happened. We had our coffee, and our friendship continued as before. I even helped him move, from Astoria to East Meadow, as his new address was only a block away from me.

GIELLA: I inked Kirby, but it wasn’t my assignment. It was Frank Giacoia’s job. I’d say I helped Frank with 75 to 80% of his jobs, and one time his assignment was inking Jack Kirby. Frank asked me to help him on it, so I did. JA: What would you do when you helped Frank? GIELLA: Frank was a great inker with a very strong style. I would work on whatever he asked me to: figures, backgrounds, you name it. Sometimes I did the whole assignment, though the main character’s faces were mostly inked by Frank. I would arrive expecting a job to be 75% done, and Frank would just be starting. It was always a through-thenight deal.

One time, Carmine called me up—he was president of DC Comics at the time—and said, “Joey, do me a favor: go over to Frank’s house and get that story away from him.” I said, “Carmine, why don’t you call him and let him give you the story?” Carmine said, “No, I don’t want to talk

JA: I’ve know how Frank liked to procrastinate, but how much of it do you think might have been fear of doing the job? He was obviously afraid to pencil. GIELLA: I met Jack Kirby in an elevator one time, and I don’t know how we got on the subject, but he started talking about Frank. He mentioned something that kind of disturbed me a little bit, because I liked Frank. He said, “Joe, y’know what’s wrong with Frank?” He had that cigar in his mouth, y’know. I really looked up to him and loved his work. I said, “What, Jack?” And he said, “Frank has a genius complex, but he’s not.” I didn’t laugh, I didn’t say anything. And I never mentioned it to Frank. Frank had problems because he wanted to pencil, but he had a mental block and the work just couldn’t flow out of him. He did work on Johnny Reb that was absolutely terrific, and my son has the originals. A lot of the work is mine, too, but I know what Frank did on it, and it was great. When I had the Batman strip, Frank said, “Joe, let me do a Sunday page.” I’m not the fastest penciler, so I said, “Frank, I’ll give you a Sunday page, but you’ve got to get this done on time.” This was syndication; I warned him about it. As the deadline got closer, I got nervous. I had to go over to his house, take that page, and pencil it. He didn’t even start it! I said, “Frank, this thing is due tomorrow. How am I going to do this?” I wound up penciling it, and he helped me with the inking. It’s a mystery why he was so afraid. He wanted to do such a good job that he wasn’t happy with his results. He also used a projector a lot, projecting photographs, thumbnails, anything he could get his hands on. If you depend on that, it’s a crutch. I went through that stage, and I stopped it, just stopped it. I’d say, “Frank, you can draw. Just do a little bit every day on your own, and you’ll see. A week will go by, a month will go by, and it’ll start to flow out of you.” Most artists go through this stage, but he just couldn’t get over that hump. It absolutely depressed him. I never turned him down when he asked for help, except one time when my dad passed away, and Frank really got teed off at me. I had to be at the funeral home for three or four days while my father was lying in state. I said, “Frank, my father’s lying in the funeral home. There’s no way that I’m going to come over and work through the night with you.” An argument ensued, and I think Frank hung up on me. I was really

Captain Of My Fate This photo of Frank Giacoia appeared in MarvelÕsFOOM Magazine #3 (1973)Ñwhile the Kirby-penciled, Giacoia-inked ÒCaptain AmericaÓ page is from Tales of Suspense #64 (April 1965). That story was a reworking by Lee and Kirby of an early-1940s Simon & Kirby adventure from Captain America Comics. Could this perhaps be one of the Ò75 to 80%Ó of inking jobs on which Joe feels he helped his perennially-late friend? Giacoia (who used the pseudonym ÒFrank RayÓ at Marvel in the mid-1960s to disguise his moonlighting from DC) was one of the best Kirby inkers ever, but emotionally he had difficulty actually turning out the work. [©2005 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

ÒJoeGiella Is Like Fine Wine––He Gets Better With Age!Ó

Johnny Reb & Sherlock Holmes (Top:) Frank Giacoia was the artist of record on Johnny Reb (officially Johnny Reb and Billy Yank), a Sunday strip which ran from November 1956 through summer of 1959 and brought the Civil War to life each week. Giacoia was often helped out on the feature by Joe, Mike Sekowsky, Gil Kane, and Jack Kirby. (Above two rows:) ThereÕsprobably lots of Sekowsky penciling in one or both of these Sherlock Holmes dailies from 1954 & 1956Ñand a fair helping of Joe Giella inking, as well. Yet, Frank Giacoia was a more than competent penciler as well as inker when he could get past his artistÕsblock. Thanks to Joe & Frank Giella for all art in this montage. [Both features ©2005 New York Herald Tribune, Inc., or its successors in interest.]

to him.” He was really teed off. So I went over to Frank’s and said, “Frank, you’ve got to get this job in to Carmine. He doesn’t want you to finish; just hand it in.” Frank said, “Why doesn’t he call me?” I knew Frank was upset, and I didn’t want to get into an argument with him over it. “Kill the messenger,” y’know? Anyway, I calmed him down, and he called Carmine. I don’t know what happened, whether he turned the job in, or what arrangements he made. JA: No offense, Joe, but he was that way with Mike Esposito, and others, too. Did you guys feel like he was using you? GIELLA: Yes, at times I did. But we had so much fun working together that I kind-of overlooked it. And then, Jim, I felt so sorry for him that I

didn’t look at it that way. I’m sure I felt like, “Yeah, he’s taking advantage of me again,” especially during that incident with my dad. When you care for someone, you overlook a lot of things, and when he’s hurting, you hurt, too. I know Mike Sekowsky felt the way I did. Frank always had problems, and couldn’t straighten himself out. It seemed like no one could. JA: Were any of his problems alcohol-related? GIELLA: He was a social drinker. He would drink every day—Jack Daniels, a few drinks—but he wasn’t an alcoholic or anything like that. He never smoked. But you know, you take two drinks a day, 14 a week, over a period of 30 or 40 years, and hey, it’s going to take its toll.

The Man Who Inked DCÕsSilver Age newspaper strip. I know a lot of Sherlock Holmes was penciled by Sekowsky. GIELLA: Oh yeah. We were all there in the same room at Frank’s, working. On Sherlock Holmes, I just did the inking with Frank. Mike Sekowsky’s work had to be tightened up a little bit, so that’s what I did: I’d tighten it up, and then ink it. Afterwards, I’d show it to Frank and ask if he wanted any changes, and usually, he’d say, “Joe, let’s get this done.”

Kurt, Dick, Don, & CurtÑ& Joe A foursome of DC pages inked by Joe in the 1960s [clockwise from top left]: Kurt Schaffenberger penciled this page for The New Adventures of Superboy #44 (Aug. 1983)Ñ Dick Dillin holds the record for most issues of Justice League of America, including this splash for #89 (May 1971), from an Oz reprint comic supplied by Mark MullerÑ Don Heck penciled this splash from Adventure Comics #463 (May 1979), reproÕdfrom a photocopy of the original art, courtesy of JoeÑ And Curt Swan drew this final page from the wedding of Superman and Lois in Action Comics #484 (June 1978)Ñscripted by Cary BatesÑwhich is reproÕdfrom a photocopy of the original art sent by Frank Giella (who also loaned us a copy of the Schaff comic). Thanks to Ray Bottorff, Jr., and the GCD for date info. [All 3 pieces ©2005 DC Comics.]

But he had other problems. I’m not a coffee drinker; I have three cups a week. Frank drank 17 cups a day. The reason I know it was 17 is because he had a thermos bottle that would hold eight cups, and he’d fill it up twice. That’s 16. Then he’d have a cup of demitasse when I came over, and that was the seventeenth. He was living on caffeine. His diet probably left a lot to be desired. He loved his steaks, and he violated all the rules. He didn’t exercise, either. When he was young, he played football, but later there was no exercise. He was a walking disaster. Still he was just a lovable guy. You would have loved him. Despite all his shortcomings he was still a great guy to work with. JA: Around 1955 and 1956, you were helping him on the Sherlock Holmes

JA: What sort of features was Sekowsky best at? GIELLA: I think he was best at the romance features. That’s my personal opinion. He had a great style that lent

ÒJoeGiella Is Like Fine Wine––He Gets Better With Age!Ó

JA: You worked on romance stories for DC from 1966 through 1969. Did you pencil any of those stories? GIELLA: I may have done a few 4-page stories, but I mostly inked pages that Tony Abruzzo and Mike Sekowsky had done. JA: In the ’60s, you worked for Murray Boltinoff on “Superboy,” didn’t you? GIELLA: Yeah, I did a few things for Murray and a few for Jack Schiff. Everyone liked Jack. If you had a problem, you could go to him and he’d try to help you. Murray was a nice guy also; a little, quiet guy. I didn’t deal too much with him, but he was a likable guy. JA: Let’s talk about a couple of other companies where you worked in the 1950s. One of them was Standard Publishing.

ÒHey, Joe, You Got (Art) Gum?Ó And, speaking of Dick DillinÑhereÕs a Dillin/Giella panel whose in-joke speaks for itself. It appeared in World’s Finest Comics #213 (Sept. 1972). ReproÕdfrom photocopies of the original art; thanks to Joe & Frank Giella. [©2005 DC Comics.]

itself to the subject. Like, Joe Kubert’s style was more for war and jungles; Mike’s was more for romance. He could draw these beautiful gals, and he was right there with the latest styles of dress—everything was up-to-date. His backgrounds were terrific, too. But he was tough to ink, because lots of times, he was so pressed that he would go off on the figures. You had to know what to do with it. Frank Giacoia had no problem inking him; he loved inking Mike’s stuff.

GIELLA: My editor was Mike Peppe, and I did quite a few jobs for him. If you hung out with Mike, you would say he was your best friend. He was a great guy. His brother Buster was a boxer. Mike was quite fond of him, and every time we had a conversation, the subject of his brother would come up. Mike was an inker and an editor, and we used to pal around together a lot. He was a good-looking guy, very strong, built well. He probably had the biggest hands I’ve ever seen on a man. His personality was like a magnet; you just wanted to be with him all the time. Mike was that type of guy: always smiling. He died young; he had a heart attack, and it was very abrupt. He was a little older than me, but I was shocked, because he had always looked just great. JA: Since you worked at DC so regularly for so long, did they give you Christmas bonuses and raises?

ÒWhatAboutÉ?Ó JA: You also inked Kurt Schaffenberger a lot in the ’70s. Did you know Kurt at all? GIELLA: Oh, sure. Last time I saw him was in San Diego at a convention. You wouldn’t have any problem inking his work, because everything was there. JA: What about Dick Dillin? GIELLA: I would put him in the same stylistic category as Irv Novick. His pencils were very tight. A lot of the fans who ask me to sign comics at conventions present me with Dick Dillin books to sign, and I always say, “Do you mind if I look through the book first?” They say “Oh no, Mr. Giella, go ahead.” And as I’m looking through, I say, “Oh my God, look at this work. Man, I don’t know if I could do that today.” He put a lot of work into it, and I tried to follow as best I could. I never got to know him. A lot of these fellows like Sid Greene and Dick Dillin lived out-of-town, mailed their work in, and only came to the office occasionally. I may have met Dick once or twice. JA: How did you like inking Curt Swan? GIELLA: He was very literal with his work. He would do a scene with a background of a train station, and he’d put everything in, lots of detail. He’d give you an illustration. Murphy Anderson could vouch for that, because he inked a lot of Curt’s stuff. He was good. I went to Curt’s house a few times. He was a good-looking guy, a good artist, very nice to talk to, and very friendly.

The Female Of The (Super) Species From time to time, Joe has also inked the third of DCÕslongest-lived and most famous super-heroes. Here he embellished a page penciled by Jose Delbo for Wonder Woman #244 (June 1978). ReproÕdfrom a photocopy of the original art, courtesy of Frank & Joe Giella. [©2005 DC Comics.]

The Man Who Inked DCÕsSilver Age GIELLA: Yes. I started out at $16 a page, I think. Then it went up to $20, then $40. At times, we would ask for a raise, and then we’d have to wait, and then Julie would go in to speak to a superior. Then he’d get an answer, and he’d say, “Well, Joe, you got a raise,” or “No raises yet; you have to wait a couple of months.” They we’d ask again, and they’d come through.

super-hero comics. I believe you inked Mike Sekowsky and Paul Reinman, and your editor was Richard Goldwater. Do you remember anything about working there? GIELLA: No, but if I did, it was probably because of Mike Sekowsky, or because I was helping Frank Giacoia on his jobs. JA: At Tower Comics, you inked NoMan, U.N.D.E.R.S.E.A. Agent, T.H.U.N.D.E.R. Agents, Fight The Enemy, and “Lightning.” Harry Shorten and Samm Schwartz were the editors over there, and I think you inked Sekowsky, Gil Kane, and possibly Ogden Whitney. GIELLA: Holy mackerel! I know I did stuff for Tower, but didn’t realize I had done all that. I know Gil Kane got me in on a couple of deals, but I can’t remember any details about it.

JA: Did you ever want any of your original artwork back? GIELLA: No, I never asked for any of my work back. Who knew it was Catwoman Got Your Tongue? going to be valuable? Frank Giella tells us his dad drew this None of the artists felt Catwoman poster a little while back for that they were entitled to Animazing Gallery. [Art ©2005 Joe Giella; the original art. You did Catwoman TM & ©2005 DC Comics.] the job, you handed it in, that was it. I never thought that there would be any value to it, and I never even asked for any. That may have been myopic on my part. When I was doing the Batman newspaper strip, our pediatrician asked my wife for an original. I asked The Ledger Syndicate, and they sent me two Batman Sunday pages. I was going to give both of them to the pediatrician, but my wife said, “Since we don’t have any originals, why don’t we keep one and hang it in the office?” That’s the only original I had of the Batman strip at the time. Later on, word got around that I had done the strip for many years without signing it or having any originals, and the fans really responded, offering me pieces that they had. In fact, Mike Carbonaro, who runs the Big Apple Conventions, came to my house with his partner. They took me to a restaurant for lunch, and presented me with two originals of my own work. Let me tell you, I was flabbergasted! I didn’t know how to thank them. And now, at Christmas time, or on my birthday, my son Frankie gets me some of my old originals as gifts. Can you imagine that, my son has to buy back my own work! At this point, I have about six or seven. JA: In 1965, you started working for Archie Publications, on their

West Of Gotham City In 1996, Joe posed with Adam West (who made a better Batman on TV than most movie stars have, whatever oneÕsopinion of the show) in front of animation cels. The page above, from Batman #200 (March 1968), retells the origin of the Dark Knight yet again. The ÒBob KaneÓ pencils were ghosted by Chic Stone, with inks by Joe Giella, script by Mike FriedrichÑand editing by Julie Schwartz, who had to pretend he thought Kane had penciled the job. This story was prepared around the time DC made a financial settlement with Kane, took over full production of all ÒBatmanÓ stories, and ended the transparent fiction that he was drawing all (read: any) of them. Still, whatever his flaws as man and/or artist, Bob Kane created Batman (or, in our view, co-created him, with writer Bill Finger), and his role in comics history is secureÑit just isnÕt quite what folks used to think it was! Photo & photocopy of original art both thanks to Joe & Frank Giella. [Art ©2005 DC Comics.]

ÒJoeGiella Is Like Fine Wine––He Gets Better With Age!!Ó

ÒIHad The Licensing From MarvelÓ

Captain America, The Hulk, and another one that I’ve forgotten—for $5,000. That’s it. You couldn’t get their worst character now for $100,000. Then we designed and published super-hero book covers. I used to see kids going up and down my block with our book covers, and we sold quite a few of them. The problem is, the buyers want something new every year. We couldn’t come up with new things for monetary reasons, so the company went by the wayside.

JA: That brings us to Marvel in the ’70s. You went back to Marvel in 1975. GIELLA: Right. I did some work for Sol Brodsky, and something for Johnny Romita. I did the Spider-Man newspaper strip for Johnny in 1981 and 1982. I remember that because I have an original.

JA: You didn’t stay at Marvel for very long in the ’70s. Why was that?

JA: Were you doing special projects at Marvel back then? GIELLA: Probably, but most of my licensing and special projects work was done at DC for Terri Cunningham. I did a lot of licensing work with her, as I told you. I can recall doing superhero work for Nabisco through DC. JA: At Marvel, you inked some Avengers. You inked Frank Robbins on Captain America. GIELLA: Robbins worked in the Caniff style, no mistake about it. You had to know something about penciling in order to ink his work, it was so stylized. I couldn’t work very fast on it, because there were certain things I had to capture. It was slow, working on his stuff, but I enjoyed it. JA: You inked some Son of Satan, Marvel Two-In-One with The Thing, and Luke Cage – Power Man.

T.H.U.N.D.E.R. & Lightning DCÕshardcover volume T.H.U.N.D.E.R. Agents Archives, Vol. 3, credits Frank Giacoia & Joe Giella as the inkers of this Mike Sekowsky ÒLightningÓ story. Scripter unknown. [©2005 John Carbonaro.]

GIELLA: I remember that because I did the first super-hero book covers in this country. I had the licensing from Marvel. While I was at DC, after Neal Adams mentioned that the writing was on the wall, I worked for advertising agencies, and I also went into the hobby craft business. My partner was a hospital administrator. I designed hobby kits, and we had 2000 square feet, conveyor belts, and shrink-wrap machines. We sold hobby kits through mail-order, to supermarkets, to Modell’s shopping centers locally, and King’s down south. We were doing a pretty good job. Then I had an idea of putting out super-hero book covers, the kind kids could wrap around their textbooks. But you can’t just do super-hero book covers, because there are licensing issues involved. I went to Stan Lee and Sol Brodsky at Marvel, and they gave me—believe it or not—five characters—Power Man, Spider-Man,

GIELLA: Because of the advertising, the hobby craft business, and later on, the glass carving business. I could write a book on what I’ve done. I worked for the best glass carver in the country, perhaps in the world: John Garafalo. He was my partner. John did the presidential seal for President Reagan. I did the design work, and John did the carvings. This isn’t etching; this is actual carving in glass. He would put on a protective suit and start to carve by blasting, which means using a carving gun with special abrasive powders to actually carve the glass. We also did work for movie stars. Cliff Robertson built two homes out on Long Island—one for him, one for his daughter—and I designed the glass carvings for those. I got involved in quite a few things when I left comics. I was in the hobby craft business from 1979 to 1982, and in the glass carving business from 1982 to 1989. When I started looking for work in the late ’70s, I found advertising work at McCann-Erikson, where I did posters for a nationwide Exxon campaign. Then I designed some characters for Saatchi and Saatchi, for their Mars candy bar project. I wasn’t the only artist who designed characters, they had many artists try out. But they didn’t pick mine, I was the runner-up. They picked the fellow who designed some of the Star Wars characters, and they gave me the assignment to illustrate. I still have the characters that I designed, and I still plan to do something with them. My friend Kevin Mayz and I are working with them, and we are collaborating on other projects as well.

Then I worked for CommuniGraphics, Lifestyle Marketing, and I illustrated the Harlem Globetrotters Yearbook in 1994. I illustrated two books for

The Man Who Inked DCÕsSilver Age

Make JoeÕsMarvel! Sonuvagun! Roy T. had forgotten that JoeÕs1970s stint at Marvel began at the tail-end of his 1972-74 tenure as editor-in-chief! (Left:) Joe inks Dave Cockrum on Giant-Size Avengers #3 (Feb. 1975). (Right:) The Thing vs. Thor in Marvel Two-in-One #9 (May 1975)ÑHerb Trimpe (pencils); Joe Giella (inks); Steve Gerber & Chris Claremont (script). Both reproÕdfrom photocopies of the original art, with thanks to Joe & Frank Giella. Thanks also to Ray Bottorff, Jr. [©2005 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Simon & Schuster. One was Stan Lee Presents the Mighty Marvel Comics Strength and Fitness Book, in 1976. The other was The Super Hero Cookbook, in 1977. That’s when Stan Lee gave me the nickname, “Jumpin’ Joe Giella.” [laughs]

had to do six pages a week for DC in order to qualify for hospitalization insurance. At the time, artists were having trouble getting work at DC. The editors were new guys, it was a new ball game, and they were bringing in their friends. The old-timers were all getting left out. I was still getting work from Julie, and if I chose to, I probably could have stayed there, but work wasn’t as plentiful as it was when I was there steadily. That’s what Neal Adams had warned me about. So I said, “Ok, fine, I’ll take off and try something new,” and that’s what I did. Between my freelance, which included working with Sy Barry on The Phantom for 17 years, working with Dan Barry on Flash Gordon, and working in the advertising and hobby craft businesses, I stayed busy. That’s what you do when you’re a freelancer. JA: Let’s talk about The Phantom for a minute. How did you come aboard that strip?

I’m still a freelance artist, so if someone calls, I’ll consider it. The difference is today I can pick and choose, but years ago, I would take anything. Now, Mary Worth dictates my schedule.

ÒIÕll Take Off And Try Something NewÓ JA: Did you leave comics because the work was drying up, or because you were losing interest in it? GIELLA: I was working on the Phantom strip part-time with Sy, doing work for Marvel, and contemplating the other businesses, and I still

ÒI Will Lift Buildings For Food!Ó ÒJumpinÕJoeÓ GiellaÕscovers for two Marvel-related mainstream books he illustrated: The Mightiest Marvel Comics Strength and Fitness Book (1976) and Stan Lee Presents The Mighty Marvel Superheroes’ Cookbook (1977)Ñboth published by the Fireside Books division of Simon & Schuster. [Art ©2005 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

ÒJoeGiella Is Like Fine Wine––He Gets Better With Age!Ó

Phantom illo by Sy Barry for a European fan. Jyrki Vaino sent us several such personalized Phantom drawings for our interview with Barry in A/E #37. [Art ©2005 Sy Barry; The Phantom TM & ©2005 King Features Syndicate, Inc.]

GIELLA: I was working on Flash Gordon, and when Sy Barry took over the Phantom strip, he asked me to work with him on a steady basis. JA: Records say you penciled the Phantom dailies from 1971-76, and inked dailies and Sundays from 1971-88.

tried out five or six writers on the strip. I think one gal has been given the assignment now, a gal by the name of Karen Moy.

When I first got the strip, I couldn’t work in my style right away. They didn’t want me to deviate too much from Ken Ernst’s GIELLA: When Sy look. It’s very went on vacation, I difficult for an would do the artist to copy penciling and another style, but inking. When Sy I made an was home, we attempt, and I The Phantom Of The Comics Page would tighten the wasn’t too happy pencils up, he Two Phantom dailies from a week Joe ghosted (both pencils and inks) for regular artist Sy Barry in March 1976. with it. They’d [©2005 King Features Syndicate, Inc.] would do the tell me, “It looks heads, and I would too much like do whatever he wanted me to do: some inking, some backgrounds, some your style, Joe, you’re changing it too quickly.” But gradually, I worked Ben-Days. When penciling was required, I would help him. It was like into my style, and it was OK. general help; I’d even wrap up the packages we were sending to the At one point, I was told not to put so many wrinkles in Mary syndicate. I’d go there and work three days a week. Whatever was Worth’s face. Invariably, you take away a line here and there, and you’re needed, I would be there. I know Sy had quite a few people working taking 10 or 15 years off the character. The L. A. Times picked up on it; with him, because he asked me to find him a few artists. it was right there on the front page, and I still have the article: “Who JA: How did you get started on Mary Worth? gave Mary Worth the facelift?” John Saunders came to my defense, and said, “Joe had just started the strip, and he wasn’t too familiar with the GIELLA: When I left the glass business in 1989, I was trying to build up character.” Actually, the syndicate had told me to take a few lines off, my freelance contacts again. One day, I got a call from Jay Kennedy, but I really didn’t know how old she was supposed to be. Now, after the who wanted me to try out for the Mary Worth strip. I said to him, “Will fact, I’ve found out that she’s supposed to be an Angela Lansbury-type I be able to put my name on this strip?” I was thinking of the Batman character: a good-looking elderly woman. We’ve streamlined her a little strip, and how I was never allowed to sign it. I didn’t want to go bit; instead of having a stocky, dumpy-looking woman like she used to through that again; that’s one of the reasons that I left the strip. Jay said, be, she’s slimmed down a little bit because she has a love-life now. She’s “Oh yeah, you have to put your name on it,” so I said I’d do it. This going out with a retired doctor. And we’ve modernized her hairstyle. was a try-out; I didn’t know whether I was going to get it or not. They The fans make sure that I dress her right. I get maybe 13, 15 letters a sent me a script, and I penciled up a couple of dailies and sent them in. I month. These letters are forwarded to me by the syndicate in a separate guess they saw something that they liked, because they gave me the envelope. I wish I could answer them all, I love all the fans, but I get strip. I found out years later that about 12 guys tried out for the strip. A behind. I’m looking at a stack of them now that’s about 15 inches high. few of them have approached me and said, “Ah, you beat me out of What I want the fans to understand is that doing a syndicated strip, Mary Worth,” and I’ve said, “Gee, I didn’t know that.” In fact, when penciling, inking, lettering, and coloring, is quite a task! Then there are the writer [John Saunders] passed away, they did the same thing: they

The Man Who Inked DCÕsSilver Age

the distractions of everyday life. But I do try to schedule it where I answer two or three a week. We’re up to 400 papers around the world. I went to Spain, and there was Mary Worth in Spanish. JA: What do you like about the character? GIELLA: She’s a pleasant lady, she’s not nasty, and she tries to help people. A good soul. When I first started, John Saunders said, “You’re not going to like this strip; you’re used to guys flying off roofs and crashing through windows,” and he was right. It was boring, and I couldn’t get used to it. But after a while, I realized the guy was a damn good writer, and he had a following. It’s a cult; people read this, and it’s one of the oldest strips around. From 1932, she was a feisty Irish lady named Apple Mary, and then they changed the name to Mary Worth. Last week, we had the first punch anyone’s ever thrown in Mary Worth. That’s because of the new writer. You can create interest with characterization, with different figures and layouts. Anything you can do to liven it up a little bit artwise is to the credit of the strip. The story isn’t dead; it’s exciting in a very calm way. It holds your interest. People seem love it, judging by the letters I receive.

What Is Mary Really Worth? This year marks Joe GiellaÕs60th year as a cartoonistÑand his 15th year as the artist of the long-running newspaper comic strip Mary Worth. Above are two dailies (3-3-05 & 5-16-05) which spotlight the heroineÑ& below the July 11, 2004, Sunday. Mary herself is 73 (not that she looks it). The strip, originated by Mary Orr, began life as Apple Mary in 1932, the worst year of the Great Depression. In 1940 it became Mary Worth’s Family under writer Allen Saunders and another female cartoonist, Dale Conner. Soon after Ken Ernst took over as artist in 1942, the name was shortened to simply Mary Worth. This info was gleaned from the 1976 volume The World Encyclopedia of Comics, edited by Maurice Horn. [©2005 North America Syndicate, Inc.]

JA: I can’t figure one thing out: why does a continuity strip only have two panels per day? GIELLA: I don’t know who was behind that. Maybe John Saunders, maybe the syndicate. The original syndicate, North American, was taken over by King Features. The daily I’ve got in front of me now has six figures in it. They may have gone to two panels because the reproduction in newspapers leaves a lot to be desired. The reproduction in comic books now is great. But the papers now reduce the comics; they elongate them; they cut them up. My Sunday page is so cut-up, I can’t even recognize it sometimes. The top tier is a throwaway—only a few papers carry it—but when they elongate the art to get advertising to fit on the page, they distort the faces. It’s terrible. I guess that, because of this problem, they shortened the strip to two panels to make the shapes bigger. I can remember editor Jay Kennedy telling me to make the shapes bigger, because when they reduce these strips, you can’t see anything.

JA: How did it feel to win the Inkpot Award in 1996? GIELLA: I was surprised. Will Eisner presented it to me, and I was so nervous that I couldn’t say much. I said, “Thank you,” and then walked off the stage. JA: You know, you’ve had quite a career, Joe. GIELLA: One time, Dan Barry told me this: “Joe Giella is like fine wine—he gets better with age!” I hope he’s right.

ÒJoeGiella Is Like Fine Wine––He Gets Better With Age!Ó

Joe GiellaÑNo Flash In The Pan In 1996 Joe was given a prestigious Inkpot Award for lifetime achievement by the San Diego Comic-Con. At right is a half-page Joe inked over Infantino pencils for The Flash #138 (Aug. 1963). ReproÕdfrom a photocopy of the original art, courtesy of Frank & Joe Giella; it was autographed for Frank by penciler Carmine, inker Joe, and the ever-modest editor, Julius Schwartz. [Photo ©2006 Charlie Roberts; art ©2005 DC Comics.]

And The Winner IsÉ (Left:) Joe with the award he received upon induction into Comic Book MarketplaceÕsHall of Fame in 2000. Wish we had a copy of his nice drawing of Batman, Superman, and Wonder Woman, seen at left! Photo courtesy of Joe & Frank Giella. (Bottom left:) Joe was also a winner of an inker over Gil KaneÕspencils on many, many issues of the Silver Age Green Lantern. HereÕsa commission drawing of GL that Joe himself did a few years back (in color, yet) for collector Bob BaileyÑwith thanks to both gents. [Art ©2005 Joe Giella; Green Lantern TM & ©2005 DC Comics.] (Below:) Joe surrounded by things he lovesÑhis son Frank, his granddaughter Nicole, and classic comic artÑnot necessarily in that order! Photo courtesy of Joe & Frank Giella.

The Man Who Inked DCÕsSilver Age

JOE GIELLA Checklist [NOTE: The following is adapted from information provided by Dr. Jerry G. Bails on his Who’s Who of 20th-Century American Comic Books website. Those wishing to know when the updated version of Who’s Who will be available should e-mail him at JerryBails@aol.com. They will be notified when it is ready. Some data provided by Joe Giella. Some names of features which appeared in more than one magazine, not only their own title, have not been placed in italics. Key: (a) = full art; (p) = pencils only; (i) = inks only; (w) = writer; (S) = Sunday (for newspaper comic strip); (d) = daily Monday to Saturday (for comic strip).] Name: Joe Giella [b. 1928] (artist) Education: Art Students League; New York School of Industrial Arts Illustrations: cover, Harlem Globetrotters Yearbook 1996; Mighty Marvel Comics Strength & Fitness Book 1976 Honors: San Diego Comic-Con International Inkpot Award 1996 Syndicated Credits: Batman (S/d)(a) 1966-67; Batman and Robin the Boy Wonder (d)(i) 1966-68; Flash Gordon (asst/i) mid-1950s, 1970; Mary Worth (a) 1990 to present; The Phantom (d)(i) 1971-76; (S)(i) 1971-88; Sherlock Holmes (asst a), c. 1955-56; Spider-Man (d)(i) 198182; Superman Puzzle Page (S)(i) 1982 Advertising Comics: Adventures of Kool-Aid Man (i) 1983 (from Marvel) Educational Comics: New Teen Titans (i) 1983 Comics with Records: Holo Man (w/a) 1978 (for Power Records) MAINSTREAM U.S. COMIC BOOKS: American Comics Group: no other specifics (a) 1952 Archie/MLJ & related: Black Hood (i) 1967; covers (i) 1985; Fly Man (i) 1965; Hangman (i) 1967; Mighty Crusaders (i) 1965-66; The Shield (i) 1967; The Web (i) 1967 Better/Pines/Standard/Nedor: Gang Land (a) 1953; Gang World (a) 1952; Joe Yank (i) 1952; New Romances (p) 1952; Thrilling Romances (p) 1952 DC & related: Adam Strange (i) 1958-59/61-63; Air Wave (i) 1980; AllAmerican Men of War (i) no dates; All-Star Squadron (i) 1984; All-Star Super-Squad/JSA (i) 1978; Aquaman (i) 1979/82-83; The Atom & Hawkman (i) 1968; Atom 1978; Atom, Hawkman, & Hawkgirl (i) 1968; Batgirl & Robin (i) 1978; Batgirl (i) 1979-82; Batman & Elongated Man (i) 1964; Batman (i) 1964-70 & 1986 (latter reprint?); Big Town (i) 195153; Black Canary (i) 1948-49; Captain Comet (i) 1952-54; Charlie Chan (i) 195859; Chris KL-99 (i) 1951; Clark Kent (i) 1979-82; covers (i) 1950-67; DC Silver Age Classics [Batman, Green Lantern, JLA] (i) 1992 reprints; Detective Chimp (i) 195253/55-59; Dial H for Hero (i) 1982-83; Dr. Mid-Nite (i) 1980; Dr. Pat (i) 1949; Elongated Man (i) 1980; fillers (i) 1951-52; Flash (i) 1948-49; Flash (i) 1958-66/73/7779/85; Flash & J’onn J’onzz (i) 1964; Flashes Team-up (i) 1978; Foley of the Fighting 5th (i) 1951-54; Ghosts (i) 1980-81; Girls’ Love Stories (i) 1950/57-59; Girls’ Romances (i) 1958; Green Lantern (i) 194849; Green Lantern (i) 1959-64/68-70; Green Lantern Corps (i) 1982; Haunted Tank (i) 1968-69; Hawkman (i) 1972; Hopalong Cassidy (i) 1954-59; Hourman (i) 1980; House of Mystery (i) 1966; Jason Bard (i) 1972; Jimmy Olsen (i) 1968/77/80-82; Jimmy Wakely (i) 1949-52; Jimmy Wakely

(misc.) (i) 1951-52; Johnny Law (i) 1952-53; Johnny Thunder [Western] (i) 1949-51/55/59-61; Just Imagine Bruce Wayne (i) 1981; Justice League of America (i) 1960/66-72; Justice Society of America (i) 1949; King Faraday (i) 1950-51/53; Kit Colby, Girl Sheriff (i) 1951-52; Lady Danger (i) 1949; Legion of Super-Heroes (i) 1978; Lois Lane (i) 1977-78/80; Matt Savage (i) 1959-61; Melba (i) 1973; Minstrel Maverick (i) 1949-50; Molly Adams (i) 1949-50; Mr. & Mrs. Superman (i) 1978-81; Mr. District Attorney (i) 1950; Mr. Miracle (i) 1978; Mystery in Space (i) 1951-63; Nighthawk (i) 1955-58; Our Army at War (i) 1952-56; Our Fighting Forces (i) 1955-58; Phantom Stranger (i) 1952; pin-ups (i) 1984; PowWow Smith (i) 1954-59; Red Tornado (i) 1980-81; Rex the Wonder Dog (i) 1952-55/58-59; Rip Hunter (i) 1959; Robin (i) 1967/80; Rodeo Rick (i) 1955-57; Romance Trail (i) 1949-50; Sandman (i) 1982; Sargon the Sorcerer (i) 1980; Secret Hearts (i) 1955-?; Sensation Mystery (i) 1953; Shazam! (i) 1980; Sierra Smith (i) 1950; Space Cabby (i) 1955-56; Star Spangled War Stories (i) 1953-57; Steel the Indestructible Man (i) 1978; Strange Adventures (i) 1951-65; Strange Sports Stories (i) 1963; Strong Bow (i) 1951-53/57; Superboy (i) 1979-84; Supergirl (i) 1978-79; Superman & Batman (i) 1971-72/81; Superman (i) 1978-79/81/96; Superman team-ups (i) 1970-72/80; Tales of Gotham City (i) 1980-81; Teen Titans (i) 1977/84; Trigger Twins (i) 1951-59; various super-hero features 1947-48; Weird War Tales (i) 1979-80/83; Who’s Who of the DC Universe [various entries] 1985-87; Wonder Woman (i) 1977-81; World of Krypton 1973/80; Young Love (i) 1969 Fawcett Publications: Captain Marvel c. 1946-47 (with Beck & Costanza) Hillman Periodicals: Capt. Codfish (a) 1946 Marvel/Timely & related: A-Team (i) 1984; The Avengers (i) 1975; Captain America (i) 1975; Luke Cage – Power Man (i) 1976; Rawhide Kid (i) 1956; Son of Satan (i) 1975; Thing team-ups (i) 1975; Willie (i) 1947 Tower: Fight the Enemy (i) c. 1966; Lightning (i) 1966; Menthor (?) (i) c. 1966; NoMan (i) 1966; Saga of the Lucky 7 (i) 1966; T.H.U.N.D.E.R. Agents (i) 1967; U.N.D.E.R.S.E.A. Agents (i) 1966

“Comic Artists Could Draw Better Than Anybody In The World!” Artist JAY SCOTT PIKE Talks About His Days At Timely/Marvel & DC Interview Conducted & Transcribed by Jim Amash

f you want a story with beautiful women in it, look no further than a Jay Scott Pike tale. Scott, as he prefers to be called, delineated breathtaking women for romance comics and for titles like Lorna, the Jungle Girl and Jann of the Jungle. His attention to jungle foliage heightened the reality of their environment and was always a pleasure to look at. And, though sadly he wrote and drew his late-’60s creation “Dolphin” only once, she remains a cult favorite among comics fans. As far as we’re concerned, Jay Scott Pike ranks high on the alltime list of classic “good girl” artists; and if you want further proof of that, then check out his eBay auctions for examples of his current work, or contact Marianne Ohl Phillips at www.moppinup.com. But please wait until you’ve read our whole interview! You’ll find plenty of evidence on view there, as well. —Jim.

ÒIJust Wanted To DrawÓ JIM AMASH: We can’t get away with not asking this question, so I’ll ask it first: when and where were you born? JAY SCOTT PIKE: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, September 6, 1924. JA: I was born in Altoona, PA. PIKE: Oh yeah, where the coal mines are. I went to the University of Pennsylvania for one semester before I went into the Marine Corps. I was on the Freshman football team, and just about all the guys on the team were from the Pennsylvania coal fields. Boy, were they tough! JA: Oh, I know it! So you were a football player. What got you interested in cartooning? PIKE: Like most professional cartoonists, I liked to draw and drew all the time. I remember when the movie Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs came out. It was being played all the time, and it fascinated me. I got so that I could draw all the characters in the movie. I just wanted to draw. I graduated from high school in Morristown, New Jersey, and went to college, as I said. I enlisted in the Marines in December 1942.

Beauty & The Beard Jay Scott Pike (in a self-portrait done a decade or two back)Ñand a drawing of his heroine Dolphin which he did especially for interviewer Jim Amash. ScottÕsthe one on the left. [Portrait & art ©2005 Jay Scott Pike; Dolphin TM & ©2005 DC Comics.]

JA: So you volunteered. Did you have a deferment because you were in college?

said, “Awww...let him in.” [laughs] That’s how I got into the Marine Corps.

PIKE: I don’t think they had college deferments then. I actually tried eight times to get into the service before they took me. They wouldn’t take me because I’m color blind—well, not actually color blind, but I had trouble seeing colors. Finally, on my last try, the Corps man turned me down, but there was an old chief on the other side of the room, who

I got out in ’46. I was discharged in San Diego, and tried to get into college there, but they were only taking California residents. I did get into the Parsons School of Design in Manhattan. I got married in 1948, and after living in Indiana for a while, we came down to the Ringling School of Art in Sarasota, Florida. I went to school there for a year and a half, and

Artist Jay Scott Pike Talks About His Days At Timely/Marvel & DC

Hartley Working Al Hartley, a Timely/Marvel mainstay for many years on humor comics, was still drawing Patsy & Hedy in 1964 when this photo appeared in Marvel Tales Annual #1. These two ÒKollege KapersÓ pages are from issues #1 & #2, respectively, of B&I PublishingÕsThe Kilroys in 1947, an early and funny Archie imitation; they display a slightly different style of Hartley art than seen in Patsy Walker, et al. Thanks to Joe Marek, Steve Brumbaugh, and Bob Bailey for all sending copies of the photo of AlÑand to Ger Apeldoorn for the comics pages. [Photo ©2005 Marvel Characters, Inc.; art ©2005 the respective copyright holders.]

learned about all they were going to teach me, so I went to Manhattan, thinking the world was waiting for me to be a straight illustrator.

ÒAlHartleyÉGot Me Into ComicsÓ JA: Is that where you met Al Hartley? PIKE: Actually, I grew up in Morristown, New Jersey, and when we moved back north, we lived in Morristown for a year or so. Al Hartley was living in Washington Valley, which was real close to where I lived. He was the one who got me into comics, in 1950. My hope had been to work at home and find high paying illustration work, but I couldn’t seem to get any work. At that time, I didn’t want to commute to New York City, so a friend of mine suggested I draw comic books. I didn’t want to do that, because I thought comic books were the bottom of the barrel, and I didn’t know much about comics at all. But I was so impressed by Al Hartley’s lifestyle, because he was making a lot of money, and he was fast. He was really cranking the work out. I penciled stuff for Al for about two weeks, but our styles were really not compatible, and we both realized that. Because of that, we sort-of got irritated with each other. By then, I had gotten to know Stan Lee. I remember the first story I did was a 3-pager about a professional golfer, though I can’t remember his name. Then Stan started feeding me Westerns, and if you’ve done Westerns, you know how long it takes to do a story. All those horses, costumes, gun belts... they take time. I did them... I did all kinds of things. At that time, I was... and I still am, I guess... pretty much against war. I did a few war stories before I decided I didn’t want to do any more of them. Stan Lee was very understanding about it. Maybe the stories I did weren’t gory. I got into doing horror stories, and drew The Black Rider for a long time.

ÒIAlways Found [Stan Lee] Easy To Work WithÓ JA: Did you work at home or on staff? And what do you remember about Stan Lee?

PIKE: I worked at home. I liked Stan Lee a lot and always found him very easy to work with. When my wife and I moved back to Florida, Stan always gave me two or three scripts at a time, so when I finished a story, I could jump right into another one. Personally, I hardly ever saw him, though we talked on the phone a lot. As soon as I realized I could keep busy doing comics and live where I wanted, my wife and I moved back to Sarasota, Florida. In the second half of the 1950s, the comic book business went to hell, so I was stranded down in Florida without any visible means of support. I did all kinds of things, like portraits. I did them in pastels. I also did paintings in the bottom of swimming pools, architectural renderings...anything to make a buck. I also worked for several agencies, but two of them went belly-up, owing me about $18,000, which did us in. That was in 1960, so we moved back to the New York area so I could get some decent kind of work. JA: Since you lived in Florida for most of your Timely career, you mainly talked to Stan by phone. I’m surprised he had the time, considering how busy he was. Was Stan the only one you talked to or was there another editor you worked with? PIKE: No, I always talked to Stan. There was one time that I got a call from a secretary or an assistant. She said, “Do you have to wrap those pages up like you do? They’re wrapped like a bomb.” JA: Yeah, but the first time pages came in damaged, you’d have heard about it. Now, you said you did Black Rider. You happen to remember who the writer was? PIKE: It might have been Bob Bernstein, but I’m not positive. I don’t think Stan wrote many of the stories I worked on, but he sure did a lot of writing. Stan told me that when he was in the Army, he’d get a weekend pass, get a hotel room, and write stories. He said he could make a thousand bucks over the weekend, and I was impressed by that. But I really don’t remember the names of the writers.

ÒComicArtists Could Draw Better Than Anybody In The World!Ó

ÒILiked Doing The Female Jungle FeaturesÓ JA: You also drew Kid Colt, Lorna the Jungle Girl.... PIKE: Oh, yeah, I drew a lot of Lornas. I drew Jann of the Jungle, too.

ÒIDidnÕtFeel Bad About Doing ComicsÓ JA: Well, you weren’t particularly proud of being in comics anyway, were you? You wanted to be an illustrator.

JA: You also drew stories for the crime and adventure comics, like All-True Crime. Did you have a favorite genre?

PIKE: I did want to be an illustrator, but I knew a few, and I was making more money than they were. You don’t generally get rich doing comics, but I was doing well then.

PIKE: I really liked the romance stories because I could draw them faster. I could draw a close-up of a woman’s face with a tear coming out of her eye. That was easy.

JA: When the Senate Investigations were going on, were you embarrassed to admit you were doing comics?

JA: You really had a great gift for drawing pretty women. PIKE: Yeah, that was my strongest point, and still is. The stuff I sell on eBay is all girly drawings. I liked doing the female jungle features—the pretty women and all that foliage. I was doing Lorna when the Comics Code came into being. That was the only time I ever got any work back. One of the nice things about comics was that I did the work and never saw it again. There wasn’t anyone nitpicking my work. But they sent two stories back to me. I had to reduce Lorna’s breast size. There were scenes when she was swinging on vines above the ground, with her skirt flying up. I had to redraw the skirt down around her knees, even though she was flying upwards. [laughs] JA: In a case like that, did they call you and tell you the work was coming back, or did a package just show up with a note attached to the art? PIKE: I guess Stan called me first. I don’t remember him being upset about it. It was just the way things were. Comics got a lot of bad publicity, thanks to EC Comics. That Johnny Craig cover where the man was holding up the severed head! That was too gory and got us into trouble. Congress got involved, and that gave them a chance to be selfrighteous.

PIKE: I remember people asking me about it. I said, “Listen, the publishers I work for are pretty doggoned straightlaced.” I can’t remember either Timely or DC coming out with stuff that I thought was bad. I didn’t feel bad about doing comics. JA: Then you didn’t feel bad about drawing horror stories. PIKE: I wasn’t good at doing horror stories, so I got out of doing them. Stan simply didn’t give me those, because he realized they weren’t my strongest area. Once I got into romance, that’s pretty much all I got. I did like doing Westerns, but they took me longer to do. I took little shortcuts, like when a posse’s running into town, they kick up a lot of dust, so I didn’t have to draw the feet of the horses. I did like drawing horses, though it wasn’t easy for me.

ÒStanWould Call MeÉWould I Take A Rate Cut?Ó JA: How fast an artist were you? PIKE: Back in the ’50s, I could average $25,000 a year. I was getting about $35 to $40 a page, pencils and inks. To make 25 grand, I’d have to average $500 a week, so I had to be cranking out two pages a day. JA: Did you letter your stories?

That Was LornaÑBut SheÕsOnly A Dream ÒI drew a lot of Lornas!Ó recalls Scott. Here, courtesy of collector Bob Cherry, are two Pike splashes and an action page (from the second story) from Lorna, the Jungle Girl #22 (Dec. 1956). Even Sheena never looked more gorgeous in a jungle setting! And, like Jim Amash says, the foliage ainÕttoo shabby, either. (ThatÕsÒtrees,Ó for you guys with dirty minds.) [©2005 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Artist Jay Scott Pike Talks About His Days At Timely/Marvel & DC

ÒJann, Jann, Jann of the JungleÉÓ A pair of Pike pages from Jann of the Jungle #10 (March 1956)Ñand a sketch he did a few years ago for collector Shaun Clancy. The original Jan of the Jungle (one ÒnÓ) was actually a boy, created back in the 1930s in prose tales by Otis Adelbert Kline, one of the most noted imitators of Edgar Rice BurroughsÕTarzan and interplanetary talesÑand Fiction HouseÕscomics had featured a young male Jan of the Jungle, who, whether officially based on OAKÕsIndia-based Jan or not, was nearly a dead-ringer for their Wambi the Jungle Boy. We like ScottÕsversion best! With thanks to Shaun Clancy for the sketch, and to Bob Cherry for the Jann pages. [©2005 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

When You CominÕBack, Black Rider? These splashes from Black Rider #17 (Nov. 1951) were drawn by Jay Scott Pike, and scripted by Robert Bernstein, according to Dr. Michael J. Vassallo, who provided us with scans in the 11th hour. Thanks, Doc! [©2005 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

ÒComicArtists Could Draw Better Than Anybody In The World!Ó

37 PIKE: Yes, but my memory is a little foggy on that. Some point after that, I remember being in the Marvel offices, which was the first time I’d seen Stan in years. But there wasn’t any work. I was working for advertising agencies in Manhattan, and began to make more money there than I had in comics. I did more work for DC than for Stan after 1957.

I Love A MysteryÑBut Not Horror ÒI wasn’t good at doing horror stories,Ó says JSP. ÒStan simply didn’t give me those, because he realized they weren’t my strongest area.Ó Still, ScottÕssplash for the story ÒThe JokeÓ from Suspense #18 (May 1952), in the days before the Comics Code Authority made a clean sweep of all horror comics, shows he could supply the moody feel needed for that jugular genre. Thanks to Ger Apeldoorn for the scan. Above, courtesy of Tom Lammers, is the final panel of a story from Mystery Tales #24 (Dec. 1954), in which Scott depicted editor Stan Lee and a perhaps-generic horror-comics writer. [©2005 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Ò[LevGleason Publications] DidnÕtPay Worth A DamnÓ JA: Before we get into that, let me ask you about a couple other places you worked at. I believe you did some stuff for ACG after working for Timely. The editor there was Richard Hughes. PIKE: It doesn’t ring a bell with me. I guess I could have.

JA: Do you remember working for Ace?

PIKE: No. The way it worked was that I’d pencil the pages and mail them in. Someone would letter the pages, and then mail them back to me for inking. But it got to the point where I was sending in complete art jobs, leaving room for the letterer. I got so I could accurately judge how much space to leave for the letterer.

PIKE: Yes, I do. I don’t remember who the editor was, though. They put out pulps as well as comics and I did some pulp work for them, and a couple of other places, too. It was drybrush work I did. When I got out of comics, I did covers for Master Detective and True Detective, among others. I also did covers for Dell paperbacks.

JA: Did Stan call you himself when Timely suspended publishing? PIKE: Yes. We talked a couple of times earlier, so it wasn’t a total surprise. He saw it coming. The one phone call I remember, Stan said, “This is going to be about it. We’re going to re-run stuff we have for the foreseeable future.” I went to Manhattan to reestablish whatever contacts I could. JA: Before that, wasn’t Timely cutting your page rates? PIKE: Yes. I’m just guessing now, but I guess Stan would call me and tell me how bad things were getting, and would I take a rate cut? Then, the work stopped. JA: Timely started publishing again, and, of course, became Marvel in the 1960s. Did you ever try to get work there after Timely suspended publishing?

Boy, Oh, Boy! We couldnÕtscare up an issue of Boy Comics (called Boy Illustories for several years) featuring a Jay Scott Pike ÒCrimebusterÓ storyÑbut hereÕsthe cover of a Canadian edition of Boy Comics #47 (1949, assuming itÕsthe same numbering as in the StatesÑfor some reason, Canadian reprints did not list copyright or date info). By then, though the young hero still wore a cape and white hockey shorts over his red longjohns, he was just called ÒC.B.,Ó as if editors Biro and Wood were trying to downplay his interaction with, God forbid, criminals. But tales like the 22-page cover story still packed a punch. Note the artistÕsinventive way of showing that boxer Bill BrophyÕsvision is seriously impaired. Whether or not Biro actually drew all the covers or wrote all the stories he signed (quite likely he didnÕt),he was one of the most important comics creators of the 1940s and early Õ50s,and his Boy Comics, Daredevil, Crime and Punishment, and especially Crime Does Not Pay were big sellers. [©2005 the respective copyright holders.]

Artist Jay Scott Pike Talks About His Days At Timely/Marvel & DC

JA: What do you remember about Lev Gleason Publications? The editors there were Charlie Biro and Bob Wood. PIKE: I thought Biro was the owner of the company, or so it sounded to me when we talked. I didn’t realize someone else owned the company. JA: He may have had a piece of the company, though I can’t actually confirm that. PIKE: I did work in the “Crimebuster” comic [Boy Comics/Illustories]. And they didn’t pay worth a damn. [laughs] JA: Well, this was in 1954, so you must have made a trip to New York about that time. PIKE: Every so often, I’d get contacted by someone in Manhattan, whom I didn’t know. I got a few jobs that way. I met Charlie Biro, so I must have seen him in person. But the pay was so bad, it just wasn’t worth it. I remember Biro as being a big guy—very bouncy and enthusiastic. He was trying to talk me into doing work, but it didn’t sound that great to me. But I liked him okay.

ÒTheGood [Comic Artists] Have It All Over Most IllustratorsÓ JA: By the way, when you worked for Timely, did you know Vinnie Colletta? PIKE: Vinnie Colletta! What a character! He inked a job that I had penciled, and somehow we got together. I always got a big kick out of Vinnie. He had a big house somewhere in New Jersey. I never got to know him that well, but we’d go to lunch every once in a while. At that time, I had gotten together with Frank Spinks, and we were working as freelance sketch men for ad agencies. I remember Frank going to lunch with us once and he said, “Boy, that was some character. Who is this guy you’re associating with, Scott?” [laughs] But I always liked Vinnie.

comics—and they couldn’t. They’d always have their photographs in front of them and other reference material, too. But if you’re going to be a comic book artist and make a living out of it, you have to be able to draw off the top of your head—without models or photographs. I really have the greatest respect for the good ones. There’s a guy named Alex Toth, whom I never met, but his sense of design, and the way he spotted blacks... that guy was a master. I heard he went out to Hollywood. JA: Yes, he did. Alex worked for animation studios and did comics, before he pretty much stopped doing work for publication. PIKE: Another artist I really admired was Joe Kubert. He offered me a job teaching at his school, but I couldn’t take it. He couldn’t offer much money, and I couldn’t turn down the work I was getting in order to do it. But he was always a terrific artist and so are his sons.

ÒCarmineInfantino Took Over DCÓ JA: Truer words were seldom spoken. Okay... you started at DC in 1959. Was Larry Nadle the first editor you worked for there? PIKE: I think so. I don’t remember an awful lot about him. We got along with each other. I think he was a writer, too. I remember he always had dark circles under his eyes. He died young and I wasn’t surprised about that. He didn’t have a healthy look about him. As I recall, he might have been a little heavy and I think he smoked a lot. He always wore a suit, too. JA: Was he a quiet guy or an outgoing type?

PIKE: I wouldn’t say he was either. He was pretty much business whenever I dealt with him. I worked with Jack Miller much more than with Nadle. A Farewell To Arms? Miller was pretty easy to get Jay Scott PikeÕscover for Girls’ Romances #127 (Sept. 1967) may have been done along with, and he was also a for a generic love comic, not an edition of Ernest HemingwayÕsgreat novelÉ but writer. He was working with youÕvegot to admit, he drew a pretty nurse! Courtesy of Scott. [©2005 DC Comics.] JA: So you never worked with some woman. I always him, except for his inking your wondered whether they were pencils. living together or whether she was just another writer. I think she wrote. He died young, too. PIKE: Right. I should say that when I started doing comics, I thought I was at the bottom of the barrel. But I began to realize that some of these JA: I always had the impression the offices there were very country guys could draw better than anybody in the world, practically, because club business-like. they are drawing all the time. Comic artists have to be able to draw the PIKE: [chuckles] Yeah, I guess so. Carmine Infantino took over DC. I human figure from any angle, in action. The good ones have it all over always liked his work, like The Flash and “Elongated Man.” I used to most illustrators. During my career, I’ve seen illustrators try to draw

ÒComicArtists Could Draw Better Than Anybody In The World!Ó

Love Is All You NeedÉ Two 1970s cover by Scott, reproÕdfrom photocopies of the original art, courtesy of JSP himself. Ye Ed wishes his memory were good enough to recognize ÒMarcÓÑclearly some movie or TV heartthrob of the day. Doubt if heÕdbe so well known by just his first name todayÑÒElvisÓ or ÒEllaÓ he probably wasnÕt! [©2005 DC Comics.]

have lunch with him every once in a while. I took a friend up to the office once because he was looking for work. He wasn’t a comic book artist—he was a sketch man. I think Carmine scared him. [mutual laughter] He’d stand with his hands on his hips, and boy, he looked good! He really scared the hell out of my friend.

ÒÔDolphinÕÉWas A Girl Who Lived Under The SeaÓ

and that was the end of that. JA: How did “Dolphin” happen? PIKE: I got the idea for the series, and took in some samples of it. I don’t remember who I dealt with at that time, but they liked the idea and asked me to do a few pages. I’m sure I got paid for those pages, even though they didn’t use them.

JA: Did you spend much time in the offices?

JA: Was that the first comic book story you ever wrote?

PIKE: No. I’d go to pick up a job and deliver it. That’s about it. Whatever happened to Carmine?

PIKE: Almost. I wrote a romance story once.

JA: He stayed in comics for some time, but he’s retired now. Did you ever happen to deal with Irwin Donenfeld, the DC co-publisher through the late 1960s?

PIKE: Well, after a while, I’d been in the business so long that I was more experienced than some of the writers. I realized that the way they set up the panels wasn’t as effective as they could be, so I’d change them. I can remember omitting things, which probably irritated the writers, if they ever saw the finished stories. The editors went along with my changes. Once you’ve been doing it for a while, storytelling becomes second nature.

PIKE: I sure did. I came up with the idea for “Dolphin.” She was a girl who lived under the sea. I wrote and drew it. They wanted to give her a monthly title, but gave her a tryout in Showcase first. I went in to talk to Irwin, but in the back of my mind, I wanted to see if I could get these guys to either let me own the copyright or at least let me have a piece of it. I got nowhere in that direction, so I decided not to do “Dolphin.” I wasn’t going to write and draw it, with nothing extra for my creation. I could make more money doing the ad work. I never saw Irwin again,

JA: When you got scripts, did you ever do any rewriting?

JA: Why was it that you didn’t always ink your own work? PIKE: I always did complete art until the latter part of my time in comics. When I pencil, I do it fairly roughly. The first time they asked

Artist Jay Scott Pike Talks About His Days At Timely/Marvel & DC

The DolphinÕsA Living Doll-Fin! Pardon the punÑcouldnÕt resist! Above is the cover of Showcase #79 (Dec. 1968), which featured the one and only appearance of ScottÕsheroine Dolphin (plus a reprint of AqualadÕsorigin)Ñwhile at right is what seems to be an unpublished Dolphin cover drawing from that same period, signed ÒJay Scott Pike.Ó Only problem isÑScott doesnÕtthink itÕshis! When I sent him a scan, he replied: ÒIÕm quite sure the drawing is not mine. For one thing, I donÕtbelieve I ever did hair in that manner. Some other parts of it do look like my work, but all in all I donÕt think it is.Ó So perhaps it was someone at DC copying ScottÕsgeneral styleÑand signing his name? WeÕdask the generous gent who sent us the scan of the original art where he got itÑbut alas, somehow we donÕthave his name. Still, we wanted to print these two Dolphin drawings together. [©2005 DC Comics.]

DolphinÑA Lady With A Porpoise Two gorgeous pages of ScottÕsÒDolphinÓ art, minus dialogue and captionsÑreproÕd from photocopies of the originals, courtesy of the artist. Maybe the words were added on overlays, or to pages that had been photostatted? Courtesy of JSP. [©2005 DC Comics.]

ÒComicArtists Could Draw Better Than Anybody In The World!Ó

me just to pencil something, my pencils were too rough. This was another time I got a story back. I had to tighten up the pencils. That was so time-consuming that I might as well have inked it. I can see why an inker wanted clean pencils, but it was far easier for me to rough the pencils out and then ink it. JA: You used a brush more than you did a pen, didn’t you? PIKE: Yes. Everything was inked with a brush. I look back at the work, and wish my hand was that steady now. I couldn’t do that type of work today.

ÒIWas In A Movie Neal [Adams] MadeÉÓ JA: Did you like working at DC? PIKE: Yes. I liked Jack Miller a lot, and Larry Nadle, too. I can remember in later years, when Dick Giordano was an editor there. We did a commercial comic book that was aimed at South America. He was an inker, as you know, and he may have inked that job. There were a couple of times, when I was really jammed up with work, that he inked my romance stuff at DC. That was before he was an editor. Dick and I got to be friends, and we’d have lunch every once in a while.

Artist Jay Scott Pike Talks About His Days At Timely/Marvel & DC movie Neal made [Nannaz: Death of the Pee-Wee Squad], very briefly. He killed me off very fast. I never saw the finished product, though. I liked Neal... he’s a good guy who does his own thing. I’ve heard people complain about his inability to make deadlines, but he does beautiful work. I remember going up to his company, Continuity, and there’d be guys sleeping in the place. I went into his little studio and there was a guy sound asleep on his couch. I guess he tied one on the night before and needed a place to sleep. [laughs] We shot the movie in Soho. I was a bad guy, and somebody threw one of those discs that karate fighters throw at each other. That thing was supposed to hit me in the head and I fell down in the street. Neal called me up and said, “Hey, we got to shoot tonight.” I said, “I can’t shoot tonight. I got to make a living.” So he said, “What would it take to make it worthwhile for you to shoot tonight?” I said, “Well, I’m working and this job’s paying me 400 bucks, so you’d have to pay me that.” So he said, “Okay,” and paid me the money. That’s when he bumped me off. [laughter] I’d been down there a couple of nights before and there was a lot of standing around. I work at night, so that cost me money, standing around, doing nothing.

ÒIReally Enjoyed Doing Comic BooksÓ JA: What did you do when you quit comics? PIKE: When we first moved back to New York, I got a job as a television art director at Dancer, Fitzgerald, & Sample, one of the big agencies at that time. Then, another agency hired me away, and I worked for them for another year or so. After that, another agency, Darcy, asked me if I wanted to be a producer, instead of an art director. So I went over to Darcy, but I didn’t like the job. I thought being a producer would be glamorous, but it’s a pain in the neck. There are so many details to deal with. I lasted at that for a year, and went back to freelancing. I was much happier doing that. JA: Did you miss doing comic books?

Frankly, Scarlett, I DonÕtGive AÑ! Jerry BailsÕinvaluable Who’s Who of 20th-Century American Comic Books lists Scott as drawing a feature called ÒScarlettÓ for DC, though the year is uncertain. Be that as it may, this photocopy of the original art for a (1964?) Young Love coverÑnote the 12¢ price tagÑ might well be for the issue that introduced that heroine. Scott himself isnÕtcertain, although he sent us the photocopy of the original art, on which paste-up lines are clearly visible. Longtime DC staffer/colorist Carl Gafford adds: ÒRemember that it was common practice to stat a cover or splash page and do all the moving/cutting/pasting up on a fresh board. DC tried very hard not to cut up the original art if possible, with some grievous exceptions. Sol Harrison cut out an Alex Toth Superman face on the Super Friends tabloid (he probably tried to touch it up with pro-white and the felt marker ink Alex used ran) and replaced it with a stat of a Curt Swan/Murphy Anderson Superman. I know this to be the case because I was the one who packed up AlexÕsart for that tabloid to return to him. So itÕspossible the cover and splash you have were reworked with a photostat.Ó [©2005 DC Comics.]

Years ago, I got the idea that I wanted to get back into comics. My memories of doing comics were good and it was more fun to do than other work I’d been doing. But it didn’t happen. Neal Adams and I worked for several ad agencies at the same time. He had a great strip, Ben Casey. We got to know each other. I was in a

PIKE: I did, but they couldn’t compare with what I could make doing storyboards. I did a couple of stories for Marvel Comics in the ’70s, but they wanted me to make my work look like John Romita’s. Now, I admire Romita’s work, but my ego was kind-of bruised, because I didn’t want to work in someone else’s style, so I decided not to do any more. The last thing I did for comics was a Star Trek: Next Generation story. I think DC was putting out a comic to go along with one of the movies. I penciled it, but I had to make a lot of changes, because some of the scenes were changed, and I had to incorporate those changes into the story. Someone else inked it. My pencils were stiff because I had been retired and hadn’t done comics for a long time. I cringed when I saw it, because I thought my work was kind-of lousy. And I never heard from DC again.

I shouldn’t have mentioned it, because it was not a good job. I would have liked to go out with a better story. As I said before, I really enjoyed doing comic books more than anything else I did. It was fun while it lasted.

ÒComicArtists Could Draw Better Than Anybody In The World!Ó

43 PikeÕsPeak

A close-up head shot by Scott of Dolphin, probably done circa 1968. The circle superimposed on her neck (red in the original art) indicates her gill slits, and he thinks it may have been added by DC. Despite being named after an air-breathing mammalÑwhich she definitely isÑDolphin could also live underwater like a fish. (Oh, and about the heading for this caption: LookÑafter that pernicious ÒDollfinÓ plug back on p. 40, you and Ye Editor both knew he was gonna use the above one before the flippinÕinterview was over, so stop groaning, already!) [©2005 DC Comics.]

Monthly! The Original First-Person History!

Write to: Robin Snyder, 3745 Canterbury Lane #81, Bellingham, WA 98225-1186

JAY SCOTT PIKE Checklist [NOTE: The following is, as per the Joe Giella Checklist earlier this issue, adapted from information supplied by Dr. Jerry G. Bails from his Who’s Who of 20th-Century Comic Books. Some data provided by Jay Scott Pike. Titles not in italics generally refer either to features which did not have their own titles, or which appeared both in their own titles and in other magazines, as well. Key: (w) = writer; (a) = full art; (p) = pencils only; (i) = inks only.] Name: Jay Scott Pike [b. 1924] (artist, writer)

1964/67-74; covers (a) 1961

Also Known As: James Scott Pike

Hillman Periodicals: romance (a) 1949; Western (p) 1949-50

Education: Art Students League; Parsons School of Design; Ringling School of Art; Syracuse University.

Lev Gleason: Crimebuster (a) 1954; fillers (a) 1948

Illustrator: paperbacks & pulp magazines Artist: architectural rendering; commercial art; advertising Fine Arts Painter: oil portraits Film Storyboarder & Designer: television Actor: Nannaz 1983 Promotional Comics: Advertising comics for Ultra-Brite toothpaste (a) MAINSTREAM U.S. COMIC BOOKS: Ace Periodicals: horror (a) 1951-52 American Comics Group: no specifics (a) 1956 DC Comics: Automan (a) 1966; covers (p/some i); Dolphin (w/a) 1968; The Enchantress (some p/i) 1966-67; Falling in Love (p) 1959-68/70/7273; fillers (a) 1968/70; For Singles Only (p) 1970; Girls’ Love Stories (a) 1962-73; Heart Throbs (p) 1967-72; Reach for Happiness (p/i) 1967-69; Scarlett (a) 1964?; Secret Hearts (p/i) 1963-65/68-71; Strange Adventures (p) 1966-67; Tales of the Unexpected (a) 1966; Three Girls (p/some w?) 1966-69; Young Love (a) 1963-70; Young Romance (a)

Marvel Comics: Actual Confessions (a) 1952; Adventures into Terror (a) 1951; Adventures into Weird Worlds (a) 1953; All-True Crime (a) 1951-52; Astonishing (a) 1956-57; Battle (a) 1951-55/57-59; Battle Action (a) 1957; Battlefield (a) 1952-53; Battlefront (a) 1952, (p) 1957; Battleground (a) 1954-55/57; Black Rider (a) 1951-52; Cliff Mason (a) 1956; Combat Casey (a) 1957; Crime Exposed (a) 1952; Crime Must Lose (a) 1952; Girl Confessions (a) 1952-65; Jann of the Jungle (p) 195457; Journey into Mystery (a) 1952/57; Journey into Unknown Worlds (a) 1954; Justice Comics (a) 1951-52/54-55; Kent Blake of the Secret Service (a) 1951; Kid Colt Outlaw (a) 1953; Lorna the Jungle Girl (p) 1954-57; Love Adventures (a) 1952; Love Romances (a) 1957-60; Love Tales (a) 1952/55-57; Lovers (a) 1952-57; Marines in Battle (a) 1957-58; Marvel Tales (a) 1957; Men’s Adventures (a) 1952 [in #6]; My Love Story (a) 1956-57; My Own Romance (a) 1952-60; Mystery Tales (a) 1955/57; Mystic (a) 1952/55/57; Police Action (a) 1954; Quick-Trigger Western (a) 1957; Rugged Action (a) 1954-55; Secret Story Romances (a) 1953-56; Stories of Romance (a) 1956-57; Strange Stories of Suspense (a) 1956-57; Strange Stories of the Unusual (a) 1956; Strange Tales (a) 1955-56; Suspense (a) 1952; Tales of Justice (a) 1957; True Secrets (a) 1952/54-55; True Tales of Love (a) 1956-57; Two Gun Western (a) 1952/57; Two-Gun Kid (a) 1956; Uncanny Tales (a) 1953/55-56; War Action (a) 1952; War Comics (a) 1951/57

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Edited by ROY THOMAS

The greatest ’zine of the ’60s is back, all-new, and focused on Golden & Silver Age comics and creators with articles, interviews, unseen art, plus FCA, Mr. Monster, and more!

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ALTER EGO #41

ALTER EGO #42

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ALTER EGO #45

Halloween issue! Covers by WRIGHTSON & MARC SWAYZE, WRIGHTSON on his ’70s FRANKENSTEIN, art by KALUTA, BAILY, MANEELY, PLOOG, KUBERT, BRUNNER, COWAN, BORING, OKSNER, TUSKA, CRANDALL, SUTTON, and others! Plus FCA #100, ALEX TOTH, MICHAEL T. GILBERT— and more! Edited by ROY THOMAS.

Covers by FASTNER & LARSON and ERNIE SCHROEDER, a celebration of DON HECK, WERNER ROTH, and PAUL REINMAN, rare art by KIRBY, DITKO, AYERS, Hillman & Ziff-Davis remembered by SCHROEDER, HERB ROGOFF, and WALTER LITTMAN, FCA, ALEX TOTH, & more! Edited by ROY THOMAS.

Flip covers by TUSKA and STEVENS, yuletide art by SINNOTT, BRUNNER, CARDY, TOTH, NODELL, and others, interviews with Golden Age artists TOM GILL (Lone Ranger) and MORRIS WEISS, exploring 1960s Mexican comics, FCA, MR. MONSTER, ALEX TOTH, & more! Edited by ROY THOMAS.

JSA/All-Star Squadron/Infinity Inc. special! Interviews with JOE KUBERT, IRWIN HASEN, MURPHY ANDERSON, JERRY ORDWAY, 1940s Atom writer ARTHUR ADLER, art by TOTH, SEKOWSKY, HASEN, PEDDY, MACHLAN, OKSNER, INFANTINO, FCA, MR. MONSTER, ORDWAY cover, more! Edited by ROY THOMAS.

Interviews with Golden Age Sandman artist CREIG FLESSEL and 1940s creator BERT CHRISTMAN, MICHAEL CHABON on researching his Pulitzer-winning novel Kavalier & Clay, art by EISNER, KANE, KIRBY, & AYERS, FCA, MR. MONSTER, ALEX TOTH, & more! Edited by ROY THOMAS.

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The VERY BEST of the 1960s-70s ALTER EGO! EVERETT/SEVERIN cover, classic 1969 BILL EVERETT interview, art by BURGOS, GUSTAVSON, SIMON & KIRBY, and others, 1960s gems by DITKO & E. NELSON BRIDWELL, FCA, TOTH, & more! Edited by ROY THOMAS.

MATT BAKER, Golden Age cheesecake artist of PHANTOM LADY, plus art from AL FELDSTEIN, VINCE COLLETTA, ARTHUR PEDDY, JACK KAMEN & others, FCA, BILL SCHELLY talks to BUD PLANT, MR. MONSTER, ALEX TOTH, and more! Edited by ROY THOMAS.

The late WILL EISNER discusses ’40s Quality Comics with art by FINE, CRANDALL, COLE, & CARDY! EISNER tributes by STAN LEE, GENE COLAN, & others! ’40s Quality artist VERN HENKEL interviewed, FCA, MR. MONSTER, TOTH, & more! Edited by ROY THOMAS.

Interview with CARL BURGOS’ daughter! Unused 1941 cover layouts by BURGOS and other Timely titans! The 1957 Atlas Implosion, MANNY STALLMAN, and the BLUE FLAME! Also, FCA, MICHAEL T. GILBERT and MR. MONSTER and more! Edited by ROY THOMAS.

ROY THOMAS covers his 40-YEAR career in comics, with ADAMS, BUSCEMA, COLAN, DITKO, GIL KANE, KIRBY, STAN LEE, ORDWAY, PÉREZ, ROMITA, and many others! Also, FCA, MICHAEL T. GILBERT and MR. MONSTER and more! Edited by ROY THOMAS.

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Golden Age Batman artist/Bob Kane ghost LEW SAYRE SCHWARTZ interviewed, the Golden & Silver Ages of AUSTRALIAN SUPER-HEROES, Mad artist DAVE BERG interviewed, FCA, MICHAEL T. GILBERT on WILL EISNER, ALEX TOTH and more! Edited by ROY THOMAS.

JOE GIELLA on the Silver Age at DC, the Golden Age at Marvel, and JULIE SCHWARTZ, with rare art by INFANTINO, GIL KANE, SEKOWSKY, SWAN, DILLIN, MOLDOFF, GIACOIA, SCHAFFENBERGER, and others, JAY SCOTT PIKE on STAN LEE, MARTIN THALL, and more! Edited by ROY THOMAS.

Halloween issue! GIORDANO & THOMAS on STOKER’S DRACULA, never-seen DICK BRIEFER Frankenstein strip, MIKE ESPOSITO on his work with ROSS ANDRU, art by COLAN, WRIGHTSON, MIGNOLA, BRUNNER, BISSETTE, KALUTA, HEATH, MANEELY, EVERETT, DITKO, and others!! Edited by ROY THOMAS.

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NOMINATED FOR A 2004 EISNER AWARD FOR BEST COMICSRELATED MAGAZINE!

“I Was All Over The Place, And Enjoying Every Minute Of It!” MARTIN THALL On Drawing Comics And Witnessing Comics History In the 1940s & Õ50s Interview Conducted by Jim Amash

Transcribed by Tom Wimbish

artin Thall’s comic book career lasted a little less than a decade, but in that time, he managed to partner himself with guys like Wally Wood, Ross Andru and Mike Esposito, and George Evans. Martin also did quite a bit of work on his own for companies like Timely, Fox Features, and St. John Publications. If he didn’t make his mark on comics the way some of his contemporaries did, he still says, “I witnessed a lot of history.” Thanks to “fellow defense attorney” and author David Hajdu, I was able to coax Martin to step into the witness box and tell us a few stories about his comic book years. Now you get to judge whether or not Martin made a good witness. This entertaining interview stands as our verdict. —Jim

ÒJackKirby Was My MentorÓ JIM AMASH: When and where were you born? MARTIN THALL: Brooklyn, New York, on November the 30th, 1930. It was a very good year. JA: You were born Martin Rosenthal, right? Why did you change your name? THALL: That’s an interesting story. When my grandfather came to this country from Poland, his name was Schmael Colycka. I think that’s Yiddish: “Schmael” means sloppy, and “Colycka” means cripple. He

Thall Or Nothing At All (Left:) In May, Martin Thall sent Ye Editor a proofsheet of what he called Òsome recent reasonable facsimiles of myself. Pick one.Ó Hey, we like Õemall, Martin, soÉ! (Above:) The year 1951 saw Fawcett publish 6 issues of Captain Video, based on the early TV hero, all with art credited to George EvansÑso since Martin says he did inking and backgrounds for Evans on that mag, we figure this page may just show their work together. ReproÕdfrom a black-&-white 1950s English reprint of Captain Video #2 (April 1951), courtesy of Roger Dicken & Wendy Hunt. [©2005 the respective copyright holders.]

came here in 1906 or 1907. At that time, there was no TV or radio, but the newspaper boys would take to the streets and yell out, “Wuxtry, wuxtry!” And the headlines were, “Herman Rosenthal captured!” Then shortly after that, “Herman Rosenthal on trial!” Then, “Herman Rosenthal convicted!” When my grandfather first came here, the first name he heard was Rosenthal, so he took it.

ÒIWas All Over The Place, And Enjoying Every Minute Of It!Ó

don’t pay attention to that.” When Jack drew a guy throwing a punch, his body twisted in a way that the human body couldn’t manage. He freed me up, and he showed me how he laid out his figures. When Jack Kirby laid out a page, he worked on illustration board rather than the soft board, and he blocked out his panels before doing the actual drawing. One scene he did had a pirate ship coming alongside some kind of sea vessel, and the pirates were raiding the vessel. He had a cast of thousands in the shot. When Jack put down a line, it was there. He sort-of visualized the whole thing; he was able to see what was going on in his mind, and model that. He could do eight pages a day, and he never erased; it was incredible. It was almost like he was tracing on paper what he saw in his mind. One Christmas, in 1945, I bought him a box of White Owl cigars— that’s the cheapest cigar in the world; no cigar smoker will go anywhere near them—and he was very touched by it. Jack chain-smoked cigars. I was on a school break, it was Christmas vacation, and he said, “Let’s have some coffee.” We went to the Waldorf-Astoria, which was only three blocks away from DC’s office at 480 Lexington Avenue. He took me to the Wedgewood Room, which was an elegant place, about fifty years old, and bought me dinner. I had my first shrimp cocktail there; he ordered it for me. Then he took me across the street on Park Avenue to an art supply store called Irving Berlin. I was just looking around while he was ordering stuff, and then he gave me this huge package. It was a drawing pad, pens, ink, brushes, all kinds of supplies. He was a really great guy to me. I used to hang around at DC Comics. I knew everybody there, all the editors, but I never worked for the company. JA: When you watched Jack Kirby work, was he writing the stories, too? THALL: I don’t know for sure, but I don’t think so. I was so fixed on his boards that I don’t recall seeing a script. I should have noticed that.

ThatÕsQuite A Stunt, Man! ÒWhen Jack [Kirby] drew a guy throwing a punch, his body twisted in a way that the human body couldn’t manage!Ó And he made it look good, every timeÑas in this Simon & Kirby-produced Stuntman page, reproÕdhere from Pure ImaginationÕsThe Complete Jack Kirby – March-May 1947, and used by permission of Greg Theakston. [Retouched art ©2005 Greg Theakston; Stuntman TM Joe Simon & Estate of Jack Kirby.]

Coincidentally, about 40 years later, I got into a cab, and the cabbie’s card said that the driver’s name was Herman Rosenthal. I told him the story, and he said, “The gangster who gave your grandfather his name was my grandfather.” Small world. I legally changed my last name to Thall in 1953. I used to be very vain, and I was thinking about signatures. “Rosenthal” just didn’t seem to go well, but “Martin Thall” seemed to be a good signature. I tried other names, such as “Emrose” and “Martin Rose,” before deciding on “Martin Thall.” Everybody had a signature: Milton Caniff, Bob Kane with a big “O.” I wanted a new signature, so I registered my name as Thall. JA: Tell me about your experiences with Jack Kirby. THALL: Jack Kirby was my mentor. He was wonderful; I saw him every day after school. He worked at DC Comics. This was right after 1945. At that time, all the cartoonists at DC didn’t work at home; they worked at the publisher’s. I went over to DC, and there was Jack Kirby. Joe Simon was still in the service, and hadn’t gotten out yet. They didn’t last much longer at DC. I went to the High School of Industrial Arts in the daytime, and the Cartoonists and Illustrators School at night, and I used to visit Jack Kirby in between. He would look at my work, and say, “You’re too realistic; you draw things that any human body can do. I

I did a terrible thing to Jack once. After he left DC, he and Joe Simon had their own studio. The letterer was Howard Ferguson. Bob Henry and Steve Brodie were inkers there, but Joe Simon did most of the inking. Anyway, they would stack their pages, and were working so fast that they would pass them around. Jack would pencil it, hand it on to be inked, then another guy would rule the panel borders and letter it. They would just go in circles. They were knocking them out so fast that it was fascinating. Anyway, the pages were stacked on end on the floor between Bob Henry’s taboret and his drafting table. Bob Henry dropped his pencil, or something like that. I reached for it, knocked over a bottle of ink that was on the taboret, and it spilled all over the pages that were done already. Jack said, “Should we lynch him?” Then he said, “You’d better go.” I had damaged three pages. They had to be done all over again. I said, “Are you gonna let me come back?” and he said yes. They were so gracious about it that it was incredible. I felt terrible. It was fascinating watching Will Eisner pencil, and watching him ink with a Japanese brush. That was in 1950, I believe. I used to go up wherever artists were drawing. It was easy to find them after World War II, because they were all working at their publishers’ facilities. The companies had large bullpens for all of them. JA: What do you remember about Joe Simon? THALL: Very little. He was a nice guy, and he lived on Long Island. Simon and Kirby had an extension line in their office, so I could talk to them at the same time. I’d call them in the evening while they were working, and they’d chat with me about everything and anything in the world. They were terrific.

Martin Thall On Drawing Comics And Witnessing Comics History In The 1940s & Õ50s

Fiction House Favorites In the 1940s, Martin Thall reports he shared studio space with noted comic book artists Charles Sultan & Maurice Whitman. (Left:) Fiction House collector Paul Handler IDÕsthis Charles Sultan-drawn splash page, reproÕdfrom photocopies of the original art, as coming from Rangers Comics #37 (Oct. 1947). Pay no attention to that byline ÒR.W. Colt.Ó The companyÕscomics and pulp magazines were full of fictitious Òhouse namesÓÑmaybe thatÕswhy publisher T.T. Scott named it ÒFiction HouseÓ! (Right:) Maurice Whitman often drew ÒKa−ngaÓ (officially always by ÒFrank RiddellÓ). This splash page was retouched by Bill Black and his merry AC Comics crew, with gray tones added, for his black-&-white collection Golden Age Greats, Vol. 14 – The Comic Book Jungle. ItÕsstill available; check out ACÕsfull-page ad in this issueÕsFCA section. [Retouched art ©2005 Paragon Publications/AC Comics.]

ÒWeMet At Fiction HouseÉÓ JA: You also spent time at Fiction House. Tell me about that. THALL: Fiction House Publications had all their artists working in the bullpen. It was one large room with Charlie Sultan, John Celardo, George Evans, Bob Lubbers, and a woman named Francis. I got to know Charlie Sultan very well, and Maurice Whitman, too. Sultan came there after the war, as did most of the other guys. Then he started working at home. In 1956, he stopped cartooning—he wasn’t doing very well as a cartoonist in the later part of his life—and went into publishing. He called me up in 1958 and said, “Do you want to work for me?” I said, “Sure.” He was publishing a racing magazine and an adventure magazine. I was the art director. I was there for less than a year. JA: I’ve heard that he was cross-eyed. Is that true? THALL: Yeah. Maurice always said that he “drew crooked,” and he did. One eye didn’t match the other eye. It was strange.

JA: What were you doing at Fiction House? Were you just visiting there? THALL: Yeah, that was before I broke in. I never got any work from Fiction House. JA: What can you tell me about Maurice Whitman? THALL: He was a great artist, and a very good illustrator. He had a terrible marriage, and near the end of his life he was very fat. There was a beautiful young girl working at Fiction House, and she was in love with Maurice. I think they finally got together in the end. At that time, I was sharing space with Charlie Sultan. I wasn’t working with him, but I was sharing space with him. JA: How large was Fiction House’s office? THALL: They had a huge office. The artists’ room had about 20 people in there. There was an old guy named Joe Doolin, who did many of the covers. He spent about a week doing a cover; he was very methodical. None of his covers had anything to do with what was going on inside.

ÒIWas All Over The Place, And Enjoying Every Minute Of It!Ó

He was a very slow talker and a very slow worker, and he sat in the back of the room, next to an apprentice named Sal Butta. Sal and I met at several times during our lives and could never remember where we knew each other from. We met at Fiction House, and met again when I was sharing space with Maurice and Charlie Sultan. JA: When did you share studio space with Sultan and Whitman? THALL: That was in 1950 and ’51, before I went into the Marine Corps. I got out of the Marines in 1953, and that’s when I joined MikeRoss Publications.

Ò[StanLeeÕs]A Sweet GuyÓ JA: When you were visiting people like Eisner and Kirby, did you ask anybody to do drawings for you?

A (Martin) Rose By Any Other NameÑ Is Martin Thall Martin, who was born Martin Rosenthal, says the photo below was taken in 1952, while he was in the Marine Corps during the Korean WarÑmaking the world safe for democracy by drawing comics for Stan Lee at Timely/Marvel, among others. And here, courtesy of Dr. Michael J. Vassallo, are three pages he drew for TimelyÑthe first two as ÒMartin Rose,Ó the last as Martin Thall: ÒThe Man Who ShrunkÓ from Amazing Detective Cases #12 (May 1952)ÑÒThe StoogeÓ from Uncanny Tales #6 (March 1953)ÑÒCrime WaveÓ from Mystery Tales #20 (July 1954). [All art ©2005 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

THALL: Everybody did drawings for me, but my mother threw them all out! Eisner did a picture of The Spirit, Bob Kane did Batman, Joe Shuster did Superman, Jack Kirby did Boy Commandos, and I had many others, and they’re all gone. It hurts to think about it. JA: It hurts to hear about it, too. When did you break into comics? THALL: In 1947. I went to see Stan Lee at Timely Publications at the Empire State Building. The publisher was Martin Goodman. Stan was there with his young wife, and he interviewed me. I was 17 years old. He said to me, “I think you can do it.” He let me do a page for him to see how I would do, and he said it was very good, and told me to keep in touch. It was a test, but he paid me for it. He didn’t hire me then because he didn’t feel that I was ready, but he was very encouraging. I kept in touch with him prior to the Korean War, and then I got drafted into the Marine Corps, which was a barrel of laughs. He sent me work while I was Stateside. One time, I penciled a story, and had sent the pages back to be edited and lettered. Stan was going to return them to me for inking. But then I got into an automobile accident and broke

my leg. I was on a gurney in the emergency room, and they let me make a phone call to New York. I got Stan on the phone and said, “Don’t send it back. I’ve gotten injured and I won’t be able to finish it.” But he’s a sweet guy; he had somebody finish it, and he paid me in full.

Martin Thall On Drawing Comics And Witnessing Comics History In The 1940s & Õ50s

I did a lot of acting in those days; I used to contact Stan every time I was in a play, and he’d come to see it. It was a pleasure to work for him. Stan was stern when he felt you did something that needed to be visualized another way, but he’d show you what he wanted. He was never angry; I never saw him get angry at anybody. I stayed in touch with him until he moved to the West Coast. JA: You worked for Stan from 1952 to 1954. Did he write the stories you drew? THALL: I don’t think so. I think he was using other writers then. I mainly drew horror and crime stories, but also did some sports comics and romance. I didn’t do any war. I didn’t do many Westerns because I didn’t draw horses too well.

ÒIWas Never Sure [Victor Fox] ExistedÓ JA: After you did that one-pager in 1947, you went to work for Fox Features. THALL: Right. In 1948, I started working for Fox Features, as “Emrose.” I started with Wally Wood. We were a team then, but it was short-lived. I have a proof sheet that we did of each other while we were drunk. [See below right.] It’s very funny; it’s me and him with our bare feet. We’re drawing at a drafting table, doing comics. It was the first class of the School of Visual Arts, which was then called Cartoonists and Illustrators School. That first class was Woody, Ernie Bache, Roy Krenkel, Marvin Stein, Al Williamson, and me. I also met Ross Andru and Mike Esposito there, who I later worked with at MikeRoss Publications.

ÒJoe[Shuster] Was Such A Sad StoryÓ JA: What was Al Williamson like? THALL: Al was a very gung-ho kid. We met at that first class at the Cartoonists and Illustrators School. He was a year younger than I. My mother let me travel to New York to visit him; he lived on York Avenue at 79th Street, which was a slum at the time. His mother would bring him over to my parents’ house, and then she’d come back and get him when he was ready to go home. She’d make two round trips so he could visit me. We both loved Will Eisner. I loved Raymond, but Al worshiped Raymond. He drew like Raymond. I was looking at Eisner; he was very cinematic. The way he drew the Spirit character was simply a marvel. Classic. We hung out together for a while, and then as we grew older, we kind-of parted ways. Al got married young, and I didn’t get married until I was 29. Then he moved out of New York, to Pennsylvania. JA: After you and Wally Wood stopped working together, did you keep in touch? THALL: Not really. We’d see each other at parties. The Cartoonists and

JA: What did you do for Victor Fox? THALL: I worked at home. I did romance comics and a couple of crime stories. They had a deal there where you kicked back $2 a page to the editor. Hy Vigoda; I’ll never forget him. He was tall, slightly overweight, dark-haired, looked like he needed a shave. And he was slimy. I guess I can say that because they’re all dead now. It was a long time ago, and they made you sweat for your money. They paid the lowest page rate at that time; it was $23 a page. Other guys were getting $30 or $35. Finally, Woody and I did a story where we hid our names in every panel, and we quit as soon as we got paid. I connected well with Woody. I witnessed a lot of history, but I wasn’t that much of a cartoonist. I never had chutzpa enough to do a lot of work. I’ve been with a lot of people who have done very well, and I’ve been part of the history. I lived through it. JA: When you were working with Wood, were you penciling or inking? THALL: Both. We’d work on the same stories. We used to pass stuff back and forth. We had fun, and we drank a lot. Woody came to my mother’s house once for dinner with my Jewish family. She served him some peaches in sour cream. He said, “What’s that?” My mother told him, and he said, “I need some paper because I’m ready to throw up.” We had some good fun, Woody and I. Then Harry Harrison got together with Woody, and they opened up a hack shop. Everybody worked on the same story at the same time, grinding the pages out like machinery. It was sublevel work, but it was marketable, and they made some good bucks. Harry became known as “Harry the Hack.” JA: Did you ever meet Victor Fox? THALL: I never met Mr. Fox. I was never sure he existed, because I didn’t know who signed the checks.

ÒSlightly SaneÓ Of this unpublished circa-1947/48 drawing by himself (using the name ÒEmroseÓ) and Wally Wood that he sent us, Martin writes: ÒMet Wood at Cartoonists & Illustrators School. [Tarzan artist Burne] Hogarth is man in womanÕsshirt [i.e., clinging to the female torso in center of pic]. Wood is smoking cigarette. Martin next to Wood. At top right is Ed McLean, student at C&I. In the inset: Roy Krenkel [with Valkyrie sitting on him], & Harry Harrison with brush. Woody and Martin were drunk when doing this page!Ó [Art ©2005 Martin Thall & Estate of Wally Wood.]

ÒIWas All Over The Place, And Enjoying Every Minute Of It!Ó

couple of girls with him, and he asked me to come up to his apartment on the upper east side of Manhattan. I went there, and on his wall were pictures of himself shaking hands with Albert Einstein, George Gershwin... he knew everybody. He also had a bathroom called the Batroom; it had Batman wallpaper in it. [laughter] He was a charming guy. He was embarrassed by some of the guys at DC in the ’60s, because they asked him to make a change on one of his pages, and he struggled over it, and couldn’t do it. JA: How did you meet Siegel and Shuster? THALL: I met them separately. I met Joe at DC, and I met Jerry years later at Ziff-Davis. I went to see him about work, but he didn’t hire me. Joe was such a sad story because of the terrible things they did to him about “Superman.” When Bill Molno, Jack Abel, Mo Marcus, and I had our studio in the Bryant Park building, Joe worked for us as an agent. He’d go to the publishers and get story assignments for us, then deliver them when we were done. Joe was very quiet. Jerry and Joe were both Clark Kents. Joe lived with his mother. He wore a blue suit, a grey hat, and a purple scarf went he went around town. He was a really sad sight. JA: Did he ever talk about “Superman” once he and Jerry had lost their lawsuit against DC? THALL: That was 1948, I believe. He didn’t talk about it in my presence. That’s when Siegel and Shuster created a new character called Funnyman, using Danny Kaye as a model. Marvin Stein drew it. That died a horrible death. I think Joe was very bitter. JA: I heard that he was like a lost soul after the lawsuit. THALL: Yeah, that covers it. He put so much into that, and wanted to win it so badly. Then he lost it: they wiped his name (and Jerry’s) off the feature, and he had no rights to it at all.

Life Is FunnyÑBut Not Always

JA: Tell me about Marvin Stein.

Martin says: Ò[Jerry] Siegel and [Joe] Shuster created a new character called Funnyman, using Danny Kaye as a model. Marvin Stein drew it. That died a horrible death.Ó We donÕtknow whether Marvin Stein or another artist from the remnants of the Shuster studio drew this splash from one of the stories in Funnyman #1 (Jan. 1948), published by Vin SullivanÕsMagazine Enterprises. Interestingly, this is the first time Ye Editor recalls hearing that Funnyman and his alter ego, Òace comedian Danny Davis,Ó were based visually on Danny KayeÑbut it makes sense, and Davis resembled Kaye, beneath the clown makeup. [©2005 Estates of Jerry Siegel & Joe Shuster.]

THALL: We were good friends, and socialized together. He was nuts. He loved to imitate Woody Woodpecker. His father remarried, and Marvin fell in love with his stepmother’s daughter Florence, and married her. His father and her mother were named Marvin and Florence, too, so it was Marvin and Florence and Marvin and Florence. When I broke my leg in the Marine Corps and came home on leave, Marvin and I went to a party and I ended up dancing. On one leg. We had an awful lot of fun together.

Illustrators School held a Christmas party every year, and I’d get to see him then.

JA: What can you tell me about Bill Molno? I know almost nothing about him.

JA: While you were at the school, did you meet Mort Meskin?

THALL: Bill was a very fast artist. When he started making a living in comics, he was just doing layouts. We’d hire him to do a story and pay him ten bucks a page. He’d lay out the whole story for us, without drawing any faces. It was low pay, and we just had to tighten it up and ink it. It was a very comfortable arrangement for all of us. He married a beautiful girl from Italy, and she cooked us a dinner that could choke a horse. I went out to have dinner with them in Queens—Ross Andru was there, too—and she came out with a big bowl of pasta. She said, “Take more,” so I took more; it was great. Then I had some wine and bread, and a salad. And then she brought out the food. I was dying, screaming “Hold the cannolis!” I couldn’t push it down my stomach; it was too much.

THALL: Oh, yes. I liked Mort. When I knew him, he was sharing a studio with Maurice Whitman, Bernie Krigstein, and Charlie Sultan. Mort was quietly weird. I shared space with him, but I really didn’t get to know him. JA: What do you remember about Bernie Krigstein? THALL: He didn’t believe that anybody could recognize his work, even though he had a very distinct line style. Bernie ended up teaching at the School of Art and Design in New York, when my son was going there. He hated my son. My son was a free thinker; he did what he thought was right. They just weren’t going to get along. JA: Did you know Bob Kane? THALL: I met him at DC, but I didn’t keep up with him in any way. He was very polite; a good hand-shaker. I attended an exhibit that a friend of mine held at an art gallery, and Bob Kane came in. They were videotaping him. He talked to me for a while, and then he said he had a

JA: Anything about Jack Abel that you remember? THALL: Jack loved to sing. He used to ink for Mo Marcus, who was lazier than I was. Mo penciled and Jack inked; they were a team then. They were in the same room with Bill Molno and me. Jack was also a great baseball player. He played third base.

Martin Thall On Drawing Comics And Witnessing Comics History In The 1940s & Õ50s

ÒYouÕre LateÑYou Blew It!Ó JA: Why did that studio break up? No more work? THALL: No more work. Nothing was going on. Jack went on to join Bernie Sachs and Arthur Peddy; Mo went back to the south to work on a farm. He stole my Eisner collection, the sections from The Sunday Bulletin. When I was accepted into the Marine Corps, I had to leave all my stuff behind. I didn’t know where to put it, so I stored it in the office. I had all my collections in the drawers of a storage cabinet. JA: Are you still in touch with any of these guys? THALL: No. You move on, I guess. As kids, we were all great buddies. We used to visit each other’s homes and argue about whether Jerry Grandenetti or Will Eisner penciled the latest issue of The Spirit. Al Williamson was right about it most of the time. JA: In 1954, you did some mystery stories for Ace Periodicals. What do you remember about them? THALL: I only worked there for a brief time, and I don’t remember anything outstanding about it. I did something for Toby Press, and that turned out to be a bad experience for me. When you’re a cartoonist, you get deadlines, and you have to meet them. Al Capp’s brother Elliot Caplin was publishing comic books, and one of them was John Wayne Comics. Al Williamson was doing it, among other guys. Frank Frazetta was doing something for it, but he couldn’t make his deadline. They

needed a replacement story done in about two days, and Al Williamson suggested me to Elliot Caplin. Elliot called me in and said, “It’s a tough deadline; can you do it? If you can’t, don’t take it.” It was a Tuesday, and I had to deliver it on Thursday, and it was an 8-page story. I said I could do it. I called him up Thursday morning—I was living in Long Island at the time—and told him, “I’m on my way in. I’ll be in the office by 11:00.” I took the train in and around 10:30, just after we entered the tunnel, the train broke down, and stayed there all day long. When I got up to the office, Caplin was waiting for me. He looked at me and said, “You’re late—you blew it.” I said, “I couldn’t help it. You’ll read about it in tomorrow’s papers.” But he didn’t want to see me again. He wouldn’t forgive me, so that was the only job I ever did for Toby Press. I worked for St. John Publications in 1950, ’51, something like that: “Sinbad the Sailor.” I claimed I could draw like Joe Kubert, and I blew it. There was a woman editor there, Ray Herman; she was very disappointed. And I was very disappointed. I used to do one-pagers for her, like mysteries where you get the answer in one page. Something like “Wanted—Dead or Alive.” I showed her a sample where I did the work like Joe Kubert, but under pressure, I couldn’t draw like Joe Kubert. I drew like Martin Thall, which was unacceptable. JA: Did you see any action during the Korean War? THALL: The only action I saw was doing a Marine Corps play of a musical at Camp LeJeune, North Carolina. I never went overseas. I was

ÒIWas All Over The Place, And Enjoying Every Minute Of It!Ó considered permanent personnel, and I was the only Marine who ever went on leave and filled out his MOS—which defines your job—as a “Combat Choreographer.” I was choreographer of a play at that time, an original musical we were doing in the Marine Corps.

get something out of it. Those stories were published by Crestwood Publications.

ÒABad Time For Doing Comic BooksÓ

THALL: I dealt with Jack, yes. Joe may have been there, but I don’t remember.

JA: Tell me about working for Mike Esposito and Ross Andru. THALL: MikeRoss Publications was formed before I joined them; they created Get Lost. I came in when the second issue was out, and I edited the first and second issues of Heart and Soul. I wrote two of the stories in the second issue. The third one never came out; I still have the unpublished cover from that issue. I talked to them just before I got out of the Marine Corps; they said they were forming a company, and asked me if I would like to be part of it. I thought about it, and when I got out in May of 1953, I joined them. They made me a vice president, which meant absolutely nothing. I gave them my money, and they went out of business after about six months. I did some work for Stanhall Publications, but nothing about it sticks out in my mind right now. I believe I did some of that work with Mike.

JA: So you dealt with Jack and not Joe Simon? That’s very interesting.

ÒGeorge[Evans] Was A Pleasure To Work WithÓ JA: You worked with George Evans, too. THALL: I worked on Captain Video with him in 1951. I inked and did backgrounds. I knew Evans from when he was at Fiction House, and I kept in touch with him when he moved to Levittown and started working at home. I did other things with him besides Captain Video. We did a book called War of the Worlds that was based on the movie of the same name. [NOTE: Martin’s memory for film titles is slightly in error here. He means When Worlds Collide. See next page. —Roy.] I did quite a number of things with George. We worked together for

JA: What did you think of Andru and Esposito? THALL: They were great. They were good guys. Ross had a great sense of humor. Mike had a problem; he was a gambler. Once a week, we’d go to Jamaica Park for the races. Jamaica closed many years ago, but it used to open every year on April 1st. I didn’t know anything about the horses. We went down there, and I knew Mike liked to gamble, but I didn’t know how bad it was. We bought a ticket. I made a $2 bet, and Mike said, “Let’s get a combination,” which meant we bet every course of the race. It turned out that a long shot came in and we made a fortune: we won something like $1500 on the first race. We divided it up, and I said, “This is good. I think I like horseracing.” But it didn’t end there. Without going into details, by the last race, Mike didn’t have carfare to get home. It was a bad time for doing comic books. That was in the day of the Comic Book Code. We had our books stacked up in a warehouse, and we couldn’t get at them. We couldn’t distribute them; they were banned from the newsstands. Do-gooders were threatening stores: “If you carry comic books, we won’t give you any business.” We were in the Bryant Park Building at 55 West 42th Street, right at the corner of 6th Avenue, and we got a notice that we were being evicted. The landlord knew about the trouble with comics, and wanted us out of there. We were behind on the rent. I was driving my car there so we could load the stuff up, and I was driving on Vanderbilt Avenue, and needed to make a left turn. There was a sign that said, “Absolutely No Left Turn,” but I made a left anyway, and almost hit a cop who was directing traffic. He gave me a ticket. So I was late getting there, and the cop said, “There’s furniture piled on the corner there.” And I said, “I must be lucky, because it’s my birthday today!” When MikeRoss went out of business, I don’t know how it was arranged, but Jack Kirby was interested in buying up all of our unpublished inventory. We piled up the pages, mainly from my romance book. He gave us something like seven dollars a page for it, just so we could

//////// Thall Andru & Esposito During the 1950s and Õ60s,penciler Ross Andru and inker Mike Esposito were an artistic team, and Andru was rarely inked by anyone else. But, in this cover for Heart and Soul #2 (June-July 1954, the final issue), done for their own company, MikeRoss Publications, Martin Thall inked AndruÕspencilsÑand it has their joint signature. MartinÑshown at left in a photo dated that same yearÑsent us a full-size photocopy of the original art. This romance-comic cover, as much as any Ye Ed has ever seen, demonstrates what a master of composition Ross Andru was, at his best. And the inkingÕspretty nice, too. [©2005 the respective copyright holders.]

Martin Thall On Drawing Comics And Witnessing Comics History In The 1940s & Õ50s

about a year, in 1951, right before I went into the Marine Corps. I worked with him some more after the war, on some Classics Illustrated books in the late ’50s.

bored with it. I wasn’t really doing good work, and I wasn’t very disciplined. I couldn’t sit down and fill up a page by myself, and I just got bored with it.

George Evans was a great center-fielder. We played ball. I played on the Fiction House team; we played against other publishers. It wasn’t a very organized league, but they used to get together. In the summer, we’d meet and play in Central Park or wherever. We had great fun. I don’t remember who we played, though.

I decided to go into the film business around 1956, right before I started working with Charlie Sultan. I took a job with Vidicam Pictures on East 5th Street for $45 a week, which was a pay cut for me. Vidicam produced television commercials and documentaries. My friends and I always wanted to go to Hollywood and make great films. I got to learn film editing, camera, production, set design... I loved doing it all. It involved me completely, and in three months I was making $200 a week.

George was a pleasure to work with. He was just a sweet, easy-going guy. A very talented artist who knew exactly what he was doing all the time. He was a sweetheart. He looked like Benny Goodman, and had a great sense of humor. Rocke Mastroserio joined us a few weeks later, but he worked at home; all three of us did. He was a great guy, about five foot three, had a great big nose and a muscular body. The women loved him. He spoke with a Brooklynese accent. We double-dated a few times, and he was a joy to be with. He seldom raised his voice; a very gentle man. Rocke did a civil war story for Sol Cohen at Avon. There were soldiers on horseback, fighting in the wilderness. Sol said, “This is very nice, but can you draw Westerns?” [mutual laughter] Rocke said, “What do you think this is—an Eastern?”

ÒIWas Bored With [Drawing Comic Books]Ó JA: Why did you stop drawing comic books? THALL: I realized as I was getting into my middle twenties that I was

I was very fast, and I worked for a cheap son-of-a-bitch. He was a thief; he figured, “You don’t get anything unless you bribe people.” I worked there for 2H years. I loved it there; I got to do a lot of great things. I had fun doing special effects. JA: After you left Vidicam in 1958, you did those Classics Illustrated comics with George Evans. What did you do after that? THALL: I was concentrating on the film business, and I started freelancing as an assistant director, a set designer, a grip, and an electrician. I used to make out pretty well. I did that until the mid-’60s, when I formed a film company called Educational Films. I did all the Hasbro toy commercials in the ‘60s. Unfortunately, our backers were under-funded and they lied to us, so the company lasted for a little over a year and then went out of business. After that, the guys I had brought in formed their own company, and asked me to be a part of that. I didn’t want to do it, because we didn’t agree on certain things. One of the partners said, “Why don’t you just

When Worlds Collide Interior art from George EvansÕartistic adaptation of the film When Worlds Collide, which appeared in FawcettÕsMotion Picture Comics, Vol. 19, #110 (May 1952); scripter unknown. The comicÕscover was a photo compilation. Researcher Frank Motler, who provided these pages, says that Evans was inked by ÒAl Williamson & othersÓÑwhich might just include Martin Thall. The Paramount film, produced by George Pal and directed by Rudolph Mate, and starring Richard Derr and Barbara Rush, made its debut in 1951Ñapparently at least some weeks before the comic book. It was based on the novel by Philip Wylie (author of Gladiator) and Edwin Palmer. [©2005 the respective copyright holders.]

ÒIWas All Over The Place, And Enjoying Every Minute Of It!Ó

Vidi, Video, Vinci! Martin Thall in 1952Ñwith a copy of Captain Video #2 (then about a year old) lying on the table in the backgroundÑplus two splash pages from that beautifully-drawn (and wellwritten!) comic book series, which by all reports was far better than the Dumont networkÕs TV show on which it was based. There was an early-Õ50smovie serial, too. Weirdly, there were great differences in the feel and details of all threeÑmore space travel on TV, a mere Strato-Jet in the comic, and mostly riding around in a door-less convertible ÒJetmobileÓ in the chapterplay! (Below left:) Another splash from that b&w English reprint of Captain Video #2. Note that the list of Fawcett titles that often occupied the top quarter of its comicsÕfirst pages is here replaced by just the words ÒCaptain VideoÓ in shadowy gray. Art by George EvansÑand maybe Martin Thall? With thanks to Roger Dicken & Wendy Hunt. (Below right:) In CV #3 (June 1951), Cap and the Video Ranger fought MakinoÑa living robot who was one of Roy ThomasÕchief inspirations for Ultron-5 in 1968ÕsThe Avengers #57. Art by Evans (and Thall?). [Both pages ©2005 the respective copyright holders.]

home and I did it. When I showed it to him, he said, y’know, “Nice oldfashioned stuff.” I didn’t have the style any more; my stuff was too labored on. It was fine by me. Then he paid me; he wouldn’t let me go without paying me. Then he asked me to write. He knew I wrote, so he gave me some pages of Fantastic Four. They’d printed the pages already, but they removed the dialogue from the balloons. The idea was that to understand the characters well enough, you had to do some research, so they would speak with their own personalities. So I tried that. I didn’t have much patience for the research, but I did it anyway, and he said, “It’s not going to work.” He rejected it, but he always did that with a smile. come here? We’ll give you an office, and you’ll be around to work with us.” So we got into multimedia shows, among other things, and we developed a lot of new techniques. It was wonderful. I had a great time. I did that until 1974, and then I tried freelancing again. I saw Stan Lee once in the late ’60s. He said, “You still do comics? I’ll give you some pages. Do a couple of pages of Captain America.” I went

JA: You also had a film company with Tom Sawyer. THALL: Leonard Starr, Tom Sawyer, and I formed a film company back in 1972 called Tamerlane, Limited. Our names were Tom, Martin, and Len, so we put them together and it sounded like “Tamerlane.” Ben Oda, the letterer, worked at night in our studio, though he didn’t work with us.

Martin Thall On Drawing Comics And Witnessing Comics History In The 1940s & Õ50s

Martin Thall in 1997; photo courtesy of the artist.

We were totally unsuccessful. We put together a screenplay that Leonard wrote. We had already cast it, and we were going to get financing on it, but we never pulled it off. After that, Tom left New York to go to the West Coast, and I took over his studio apartment in the Village [= Greenwich Village]. It was a great neighborhood; I loved it. I moved in there with six cats: a mother and five babies. I found homes for all of them. I love cats, but I couldn’t deal with that many.

I think the company lasted for about two years. We spent about a year getting the play written, and then about another year trying to raise all the money. Cannon Films, the people who were going to finance it, backed out. After that, I started doing trade show exhibits. From the mid’70s until 1986, I freelanced as a design and graphics artist, doing trade show exhibits, showrooms, and things like that. By 1994, I contracted Parkinson’s Disease, and couldn’t use my right hand. We had been working at very large drafting tables on huge drawings, and I couldn’t handle it any more. After that, I went into playwriting. I had already put on a couple of plays. I never get any money out of it, but I’m trying to get one produced now. Even though I have health problems, I still come up with ideas, which keeps my mind active. It seems like I was all over the place, and enjoying every minute of it!

In The Reign Of Evans The late great George Evans (left) in a 1956 photoÑand his splash for the 1957 Classics Illustrated adaptation of G.A. HentyÕsFrench Revolution tale, In the Reign of Terror. This is the period during which Martin Thall worked with Evans on CI material, so our intrepid interviewee may have had a hand in this one. Evans provided the photo to author William B. Jones, Jr., for his invaluable hardcover study Classics Illustrated: A Cultural History, with Illustrations, published in 2002 by McFarland Publications and still available. [Art ©2005 Frawley Corporation and its exclusive licensee, First Classics, Inc., a subsidiary of Classics International Entertainment, Inc.]

MARTIN THALL Checklist [NOTE: This checklist, too, is based on information provided by Dr. Jerry Bails. The key and explanations are the same as for the preceding pair of checklists.] Name: Martin Thall [b. 1930] (artist) – nee Martin Rosenthal Pen Names: Emrose MAINSTREAM U.S. COMIC BOOK CREDITS: Ace Periodicals: mystery (a) 1954 Fawcett Publications: Captain Video (i, some a) 1951 Feature/Crestwood/Headline/Prize: romance (i) 1954 Gilberton: (i, some a) no specifics. M.T. reports that he worked with George Evans on Classics Illustrated issues “in the late ’50s.” Evans is credited in William B. Jones, Jr’s., book Classics Illustrated: A Cultural History, with Illustrations as drawing the following CI adaptations and

special issues of related series during the 1956-62 period: Romeo and Juliet 1956; Lord Jim, The Little Savage, In the Reign of Terror, The Rough Rider 1957; The Crisis, Blazing the Trails West, Crossing the Rockies 1958; Men, Guns, and Cattle, Flight, The French Revolution, The Buccaneer, The Three Musketeers 1959; Great Scientists, Ghosts 1960; To the Stars, For Gold and Glory, Spies 1961; World War II, Prehistoric World 1962 Marvel/Timely: horror (a) 1952-54; sports (a) 1952 Orbit/Our/Patches/Toytown: no specifics Toby/Minoan: Western (a) 1950 Trojan/Stanhall: romance (a) 1950

My Visit With Will For as long as I can remember, I idolized Will Eisner. We began corresponding in 1978, and in 1982 I met him at the School of Visual Arts in New York, where he was teaching cartooning. Over the years Will and I would occasionally touch base, chatting for a few minutes at comic book conventions and such. In the years since I’d first met him, Will and his wife Ann had moved from New York to sunny Florida. In January 1997, I visited my parents in West Palm Beach and made arrangements to stop by Will’s studio in West Tamarac, about an hour away. If my wife Janet and I were expecting the great Will Eisner to work in some fancy-schmancy office complex, we were in for a rude awakening. The address Will gave us led us to a strip mall located in a working-class neighborhood. His office was in a nearby building. The area reminded me of a low-rent district in New York, the perfect spot for a no-nonsense businessman like Will. Eisner’s studio was clean, neat, and efficient. It wasn’t huge, but big enough for him to work comfortably. Will introduced us to his brother Julian (known as Pete), his business manager. As I recall, Pete’s office contained a beautiful piece of original poster art from Will’s Army days. Another wall displayed dozens of original drawings sent to Will by his admirers. Will’s desk was at the far end of the room, surrounded by bookshelves stuffed with graphic novels, mine included. An impressive display of plaques and awards from various countries lined the walls. Nearby was a drawing table, complete with layouts for yet another graphic novel.

Michael and Will in 2001, at WillÕsstudio in Tamarac, Florida. Wonder who drew all those nifty cards in the background?

After showing us around, Will drove us to a nearby golf course for lunch. At 79, Will was in great shape (he played tennis every day!), and very sharp. We reminisced about our days in New York. He chuckled as I described feeling like The Spirit every time I went down into New York’s gloomy subway system. I reminded him of our meeting at the School of Visual Arts years earlier and he told me he loved teaching those classes. Janet and I were stunned to learn Will flew to New York each week for years to teach at the school even after he’d moved to Florida. He said it was worth the trip just to inhale that wonderfully polluted New York air! Will also described a large mural he’d designed, painted on the side of a building in Copenhagen. It featured The Spirit and one of his favorite characters, Gerhard Shnobble, the poor schlubb who could fly like a bird (though no one knew it!). By coincidence, Janet and I were planning a trip to Copenhagen that September and made a note to look for it. Months later, we finally tracked it down after tromping through half the city. Luckily there were ample pastry shops to sustain us along the way. After I returned, I pitched couple more ideas for The New

Mr. MonsterÕsComic Crypt!

Adventures of The Spirit. Earlier, I’d offered to illustrate a couple of unpublished scripts that Jules Feiffer had written for The Spirit in 1952, shortly before the series was cancelled. When that idea was rejected, I pitched another one, this time a tongue-in-cheek shaggy-Spirit story of sorts. Months later, my plot was accepted and I began roughing-in the story. But by then Denis’ Kitchen Sink Press was on its last legs. The eighth and final issue of The New Adventures of The Spirit came out in December 1998. Sadly, my story never got beyond a few pages of layouts. However, my association with The Spirit wasn’t quite over. In 1998 I contributed my first piece to Alter Ego, back when it was the flip side of Comic Book Artist. The following year Alter Ego morphed into its own magazine. I began producing “Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt” on a regular basis, unearthing forgotten bits of comic book lore and reprinting rare comic art. Naturally, one of my first columns featured The Spirit. In January 1966, New York’s Herald Tribune newspaper had published a 5-page story by Eisner, his first new Spirit story since the feature’s death in 1952. Strangely enough, it was virtually the only Eisner Spirit story that hadn’t been reprinted. I was determined to see that that situation was remedied. Once again Will came through, generously allowing me to run his

[Above:] Michael T. stands in front of WillÕsmural in Copenhagen, Denmark, in 1997. Will designed the mural featuring one of his favorites among the characters he created, Gerhard Shnobble (top left). [Art ©2005 Estate of Will Eisner.]

Remembering Will (Part Three)

story in my column. The story appeared in A/E V3#2, in 1999, complete with a new 2-page Mr. Monster introduction. One of my panels featured a statue of Will looking like The Spirit’s crusty pal, Commissioner Dolan. Before publication, I sent Will a copy of the art, for fact-checking. A week later, he returned my letter with his comments. At the bottom he added a beautiful self-portrait drawn in wash. Needless to say, I was overwhelmed. To this day, it remains one of my most cherished pieces of art.

Florida Once MoreÉ Janet and I were planning another Florida visit in April 2001, and e-mailed Will to see if he’d be free for lunch. He replied promptly, adding a wry reference to the notorious Presidential election a year earlier, and Florida’s “hanging chad” recount debacle. Michael: Welcome to sunny Florida...we need visitors to help us count votes. Right now I’m off on a business and family trip...I don’t know whether we’ll be back by then. Anyhow why not give me a call when you get here... If I’m in town I love to have lunch with you. Will Luckily Will was free when we arrived, and the three of us had fun catching up over lunch. He also described his early school days at the Art Students League, learning from the brilliant anatomist George Bridgman and rubbing elbows with the great illustrator Andrew Loomis.

rather than a corporate super-hero. It wasn’t so much that he disapproved. I think he simply felt there were more important stories to tell than guys in tights punching each other out. More food for thought.

Since I had neglected to bring a camera during my first visit, Janet and I made sure to get plenty of photos this time. Will previewed his latest graphic novel, and his work was impressive, as always. His boundless energy and optimism also impressed us, as well as and his ability to stay in touch with the current comic field.

My next Spirit encounter occurred on March 2003, courtesy of an email from Dale Crain, DC’s Spirit Archives editor—a series devoted to reprinting each and every Spirit story in beautiful hardcover editions. Dale asked me if I’d be interested in doing the introduction to Volume 11.

Before we left, I gave Will a copy of a Superman graphic novel I’d completed the year before. Though Will was complimentary, I got the impression that he’d have preferred to see me telling my own stories,

Interested? Talk about understatement! A few years earlier, Will had been kind enough to write an intro for one of my books. I was delighted to finally return the favor.

The Last SupperÉ The last time I saw Will Eisner was in June 2004 at the Toronto Comicon. This was the same convention where I finally met Fred Kelly, who had created an earlier version of Mr. Monster in the 1940s. On Saturday night Janet and I had dinner with Will, as well as Dave Sim and Roy and Dann Thomas. It was quite an evening! Roy and I peppered him about all sorts of comic book minutiae, which Will endured with admirable grace and humor. At 87, he looked years younger and seemed every bit as bright and enthusiastic as ever. The dinner stretched long into the night.

The real thing!

By the end of the evening, Will seemed tired, but determined to outlast us all, which he pretty much did! We said our goodbyes and headed back home soon after. I never dreamed this would be the last time I’d see him.

Mr. MonsterÕsComic Crypt!

Studio (Left & directly below:) We saw Will and Michael on the first page. Here are two other photos of WillÕsstudio. (Bottom:) Will needed another room just to store his awards!

In November, I picked up a copy of Fagin the Jew, Will’s sympathetic take on the Jewish villain from Dickens’ Oliver Twist. Published in October 2003, the 115-page graphic novel was a minor masterpiece, succinctly written and beautifully illustrated. On Nov. 24, 2004, I sent him this brief e-mail: Dear Will, I finally got around to buying a copy of Fagan The Jew... I have to say, it’s one of your very best (right up there with Into the Heart of the Storm, my other favorite!). The art was some of your finest, and I found your story about antiSemitism very thought-provoking. What most impressed me, beyond the quality of the art, was the fact that—-despite a very dense storyline—- at no point did I really have to struggle to read it. As always, your storytelling is impeccable. Congratulations! I’m sure I’m just one of many to praise the book, Will, but I just wanted you to know that you continue to amaze me! Best wishes, Michael T. Will, the soul of efficiency, usually responded promptly. But not this time. I didn’t give it much thought until I read this press release on Dec. 25 on the Silverbullet Comicbooks internet news site: Eisner Recovering from Open Heart Surgery Tom Spurgeon of The Comics Reporter has posted a Denis Kitchen e-mail, detailing that “Will Eisner is in intensive care following open heart surgery. Quadruple bypass. He didn’t want anyone to know until he came through OK, but all signs are that he is recovering terrifically...”

Remembering Will (Part Three)

61 I knew Will would chuckle at the reference to his legendary thrift. On December 31 I mailed my cartoon to Will’s studio in Florida. A few days later I saw the following note posted on Will’s website, against a black background.

Will Eisner, RIP (1917-2005) Will Eisner passed away on January 3rd, 2005, at the age of 87 following quadruple bypass heart surgery. Our condolences to Will’s wife, Ann, and his family, friends and colleagues. A true giant in comics, he will be missed, personally and professionally. More information will be posted as it becomes available. It was devastating news—more so because days earlier Denis Kitchen had stated that Will was doing amazingly well. In fact, he planned to leave the hospital and return to work the following week. This sudden turn of events was shocking. But then, Will always liked surprise endings.

MichaelÕsget-well card.

Heart surgery? I was concerned about the news, but not alarmed. “Recovering terrifically…” sounded reassuring. It seemed typical of Will not to worry his fans until after he’d come through the worst of it. A few days later I drew a get-well card for Will. The gag had him meeting his deadlines, even in intensive care, by commandeering the nurses into a comic book assembly-line. The nurses sat on orange crates, a reference to Will’s early days running the Eisner and Iger shop. Back in the early ’40s, he’d tell new artists to pick up orange crates to use as tables until he could buy them taborets—which somehow never got bought! A panel from EisnerÕsnovel Fagin the Jew. [©2005 Estate of Will Eisner.]

WillÕsLegacy Will’s death was reported on TV and newspapers throughout the world. Even the venerable New York Times gave Will’s passing prominent coverage. In May, the Museum of Comic and Cartoon Art staged a major retrospective of Eisner’s career. A biography by Bob Andelman and a film documentary on Eisner’s life by Andrew and Jon B. Cooke are forthcoming. DC’s Spirit Archives continues to reprint all Eisner’s Spirit stories, and beginning this September W. W. Norton & Co. plans to reissue 14 of his graphic novels. P.S., the instructional booklet Will created for the Army in 1951, is still going strong, and his cartooning textbooks continue to instruct future generations. And, of course, Will’s newest work only adds to his legacy. Shortly before his death, Will completed his final graphic novel, The Plot. Additionally, much of the work was finished on a third cartooning textbook, focusing on using body language in comic book storytelling. Another striking image from Fagin the Jew. [©2005 Estate of Will Eisner.]

And finally, as a special farewell treat to his fans, Will even drew one last Spirit story—his first in over 30 years! This 6-page gem appeared

Mr. MonsterÕsComic Crypt!

this April in the sixth issue of Dark Horse’s The Amazing Adventures of The Escapist comic. Diana Schutz, Will’s editor on the project, reported that he sent the story to her the day before he went into the hospital. Leave it to Will to meet his deadline, no matter what. In short, Will’s legacy is secure. His work aside, it’s hard to overstate his importance to comics. His impact on my own life has been huge, and I’m far from unique. Countless others were also deeply touched by the man and his work, including comic book legends like Harvey Kurtzman, Wally Wood, Steve Ditko, Joe Kubert, Jim Steranko, and Frank Miller. Add to the list the people they influenced, and you have a ripple effect of massive proportions! For my part, I still can’t believe he’s gone. Every time I enter my studio, I see Will’s The cover of The Plot: The Secret Story of The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, EisnerÕslast graphic novel. [Art ©2005 Estate of Will Eisner.]

The Spirit meets Michael ChabonÕsThe Escapist, drawn by Will Eisner (with an art assist by Alex Saviuk). WillÕslast Spirit story, from April 2005. [Art ©2005 the respective copyright holders; Escapist TM & ©2005 Michael Chabon; Spirit TM & ©2005 Estate of Will Eisner.]

self-portrait on my wall and feel a twinge of sadness. But that quickly passes. After all, Will lived to a ripe old age and died at the top of his game. He began drawing comics 70 years ago, when comic books were just kid stuff. Will believed that comics could be something far more. He lived long enough to see that dream realized, in no small part thanks to his own efforts. At the end, he was loved and respected by his peers, and happily married to his wife Ann for almost 55 years. Will Eisner was blessed with a good life. And I’m doubly-blessed for having known him.

Missing a Back Issue? Got a hole in your Mr. Monster collection? We’ll gladly e-mail you a free Mr. Monster EEEK-Mail Catalog! Just Contact Michael T. Gilbert at:

mgilbert00@comcast.net

For a printed version, send one dollar to Michael T. Gilbert, P.O. Box 11421, Eugene OR 97440

ALEX TOTH On The Shifting Goals Of 1940s Comic Book Artists

OTE: Alex, who has been acclaimed for his art in both color and black-&-white comic books as well as for his animation and storyboard work, writes about having and achieving goals in this 2002 note. As one of the most respected comic artists of the past half-century and more, trust us—he knows whereof he speaks! —Roy.

Green Lantern Goes To The Dogs This inventive page of original Alex Toth art from the ÒStreak the Wonder DogÓ feature in Green Lantern #37 (March-April 1949) surfaced at an online Heritage Comics auction a few months backÑ only it was listed there as being drawn by Irwin Hasen! WeÕrenot certain Alex or even Frank Giacoia inked it, but we kinda suspect Irwin didnÕt.Script probably by Robert Kanigher. After Green Lantern folded, Kanigher and Toth started a brand new comic calledÑ Rex the Wonder Dog! Personally, we think Rex was just Streak, hiding out in some sort of canine witness protection program! Thanks to Heritage, to Al Dellinges, & to Dominic Bongo. [© 2005 DC Comics.]

Visit the official Alex Toth website at: www.tothfans.com

VISIT MY WEBSITE AT: www.albertmoy.com

Ken Bald Dave Bullock

Richard Corben

Mike Golden

Erik Larsen

Jim Lee

John Byrne

Jae Lee

John Cassaday

Darwyn Cooke

Sam Kieth

Jack Kirby

Bruce Timm John Severin

WANTED: Neal Adams (covers, sketches, roughs, pages, pencils, illustrations, and paintings). Other artists of interest: Art Adams, John Byrne, John Buscema, Gil Kane, Adam Hughes, Lou Fine, Reed Crandall, Steve Ditko, Jack Kirby, Alex Toth, Joe Kubert, Wally Wood, Hal Foster, Alex Raymond, Charles Schultz, and many more. Interested in EC artwork, any Large Size covers, any Marvel and DC covers, large and small. Exclusive Agent For: Jae Lee, Jim Lee, Sam Kieth, John Cassaday, Ken Bald, David Bullock, Bruce Timm, Peter Snejbjerg, Darwyn Cooke, Erik Larsen, and Aron Wiesenfeld. Albert has much more art than the selection shown here. Please call him at (718) 225-3261 (8-11:30PM EST weekdays, all day weekends) if you are looking for something in particular and do not see it listed.

Peter Snejbjerg TERMS: Call to reserve art: (718) 225-3261. Will hold art for 7 days. $12 postage in U.S. $25 postage for Overseas orders. All Packages in U.S. are sent registered mail. Money Orders or Certified Checks accepted. We now also take payment via PayPal and Bidpay. Will consider trade offers — Let me know what you have to trade.

Title Comic Fandom Archive

A Talk With Writer, Educator, & Comics Fanatic

GLEN JOHNSON by Bill Schelly

Part Two

ntroduction: Last issue featured the first part of my conversation with Glen, a former editor of The Comic Reader who wrote some of the better articles on comics history for the early fanzines (Comic World, Alter Ego, Heroes Illustrated, et al). Glen also pioneered the use of the sequential art format to teach English as a second language on Indian reservations in the 1960s. We spoke by telephone on January 16, 2005. In this second half of our long-overdue talk, we discussed why Glen left his editorial/publishing post at The Comic Reader, the “fanclave” he attended at artist Russ Manning’s house in May 1964, his views on current comics, and more. Special thanks to Brian K. Morris for his usual fine transcription effort, and to my friend and colleague Jeffrey Kipper for editing the interview down to final form. BILL SCHELLY: Getting back to the period when you were editing The Comic Reader, I understand that Ronn Foss not only did some fan art for you, but actually dropped by so you could meet in person.

Just A Society of Americans Fan-artist Ronn Foss (with his ever-present pipe) visits Glen Johnson and his wife Maizie in New Mexico in 1965Ñjuxtaposed with Biljo WhiteÕsre-creation of the cover of All-Star Comics #24 (with Starman and Sandman replacing Green Lantern and The Flash) which accompanied GlenÕsarticle on the JSA in Alter Ego [Vol. 1] #8 in 1965. Photo probably by Beverly Foss; all photos accompanying this interview are courtesy of Glen Johnson. [Art ©2005 Estate of Biljo White; Justice Society TM & ©2005 DC Comics.]

wasn’t really supposed to be using that machine for cranking out a comic book newsletter. I had to go to the school on Sundays or late at night to sneak the publication of my fanzine. BS: You did it for quite a long time; then, when you passed it on to Darrell Rothermich and Jim King, they published it via photo-offset. I’ve thought of this stuff many times when writing my columns and books on comics fandom, but you probably haven’t talked about these events in a long time. JOHNSON: Not in a long time…

GLEN JOHNSON: Yes, he and his sister Beverly came by when we were on the reservation while they were traveling west. It was very unusual for me to have a fellow fan visit. They stayed with us for a couple nights. Beverly brought her Joy Holiday outfit and put it on for us. We got some pictures of her wearing it and then my wife tried it on. [laughs] That was really the first time I had met a Big Name Fan. Ronn was very knowledgeable, and I’ve always been surprised he never became a professional comics artist, full-time. His drawing style was a combination of Kubert and Kirby.

JOHNSON: Yes. I clipped them and saved them. I don’t think I was collecting strips when I lived in New Mexico. It was later, after I moved to Utah, in 1967. I subscribed to the Asbury Park Press and then a paper from just north of Seattle that carried Tarzan. Russ Manning started doing Tarzan, and I was lucky to save the complete run that he did for the Sunday page, along with other good strips.

BS: He did make a living off his artwork in later years, but not in the comics field, per se. I think he certainly had the ability, but I don’t think he had the drive. He was one of the most popular artists in fandom, and he loved Golden Age comics, especially those from the ’50s. What was your reason for stepping down from publishing of Comic Reader?

I spent four years on the Navajo reservation in New Mexico. At the time, there were a couple of dozen off-reservation Indian schools and the one in Brigham City, the Inner Mountain Indian School, was probably one of the largest and best known. I actually lived about 400 miles from the reservation. The school was just an abandoned government facility that was converted into an Indian school.

JOHNSON: It was a lot of monthly work. I put out about 12 pages per issue. Also, I printed it on ditto machine at the school where I worked. I

BS: On the topic of your article-writing for fanzines in 1963, you were pretty tied up with Comic Reader, and it seems like you really

BS: Were you also interested in newspaper comic strips, as well?

Comic Fandom Archive

burst forth after that with the publication of articles for Comic World and also Alter Ego. With regard to Alter Ego, did you have a pretty good friendship and correspondence with Roy Thomas?

corresponded quite regularly. I told him I’d like to come by and visit him. And he says, “Well, if you’re going to come by, there are a number of other fans that have been wanting to come by also. I’ll just make the whole day a sort of a fan get-together.” And so that’s what happened. My wife and my son Cary joined us, too. My wife visited with Russ’ wife.

JOHNSON: I did. Roy and I started corresponding in 1961. He wanted something about the JSA in each issue, and yet he wanted a view other than his own, so he asked me to write articles about the JSA.

One of the highlights was that Russ gave everybody four pages of original artwork from a Ben-Hur comic book he’d drawn. Russ got very little artwork back from Western or Gold Key, but he did get the Ben-Hur story back.

BS: The first one you wrote was “Two Cases of Conscience,” for Alter Ego #8. It must have been written towards the end of 1964 or early ’65. At the end of the article, there’s a photo of you looking very urbane, with a pipe. [NOTE: See previous issue.]

Manning The Ramparts

JOHNSON: Yes, I smoked a pipe. I quit smoking about 20 years ago. In fact, I got that idea from Ronn Foss. He did that for an article. [laughs] He was holding a pipe, and he looked very distinguished. My wife took that picture of me. BS: It’s the “man who reads Playboy” sort of look. Did Roy suggest the specific subject for the article? JOHNSON: He did. I think he suggested both articles, the one in #8 and the one in #9. I’ve always had like 20 or 25 really worn-out issues of All-Star to work from. BS: Alter Ego went out to just about everybody. So, let’s face it, Glen, you were a Big Name Fan.

The Òfamous photoÓ of the fan-meet at artist Russ ManningÕs home in May 1964. (Top:) Glen Johnson, Richard Kyle, Rick Durrell. (Bottom:) John McGeehan, Bill Spicer, Russ Manning. So who snapped the picture?

JOHNSON: I really enjoyed Russ Manning. He was very friendly and open. He was almost humble over the fact that people enjoyed his artwork so much. He did have lots of fans. I enjoyed his Tarzan even more than Hogarth or Foster, because his version was so much like what Burroughs put down on paper. He also did an excellent job of incorporating science-fiction into the Tarzan comics. He just had a little studio, an outbuilding near the house. It held his comic books and reference material. He worked out there with his drawing board. BS: The photos show you sitting outside, like on his back porch. What was the general gist of the conversation?

JOHNSON: I was! BS: [laughs] You published The Comic Reader, you were published in the top fanzines…

JOHNSON: We talked about our favorite artists, who Russ Manning liked, how he got his start in comic books, and things like that. We were there from 1:00 till 9:00. I felt lucky that an artist of Russ’ caliber would spend all that time with us.

JOHNSON: I was also a charter member of CAPA-Alpha. I published an apa-zine called Small Talk for years. I don’t have those CAPA-Alphas any more. After I dropped out of the apa, somebody offered me a fabulous amount of money for my collection.

BS: It was certainly one of the earliest fan meetings of any significance. The first New York Comic Con, such as it was, didn’t happen for another couple of months. Your visit with Russ was in May, so this was one of those fan-meets, probably the first significant one in California, that led up to the comicons. Did people bring things to show to each other?

BS: It’s not too surprising that you’d end up in that very famous photo with Russ Manning, Bill Spicer, Richard Kyle, John McGeehan, and Rick Durell in a meeting in May of 1964 at Manning’s house. You were the guy who kind-of sparked that meeting, weren’t you? JOHNSON: We were going out to California, and Russ Manning and I

BS: That’s interesting, because I have one of those Ben Hur pages now. I think it was a gift to me from Howard Keltner shortly before he passed away. What was Russ like in person?

JOHNSON: I came such a great distance, I didn’t bring anything,

A Talk With Glen Johnson but I think other people did. I think that’s where I met Richard Kyle. He is one of the most interesting people I’ve ever met anywhere. He is full of so much knowledge, it’s intimidating. I mean he’s just amazing.

67 JOHNSON: Not yet. BS: Let’s jump ahead to the ’70s and ’80s. Did you continue buying new comics as the years went by? Or did you drift away from the hobby?

JOHNSON: I was pretty much of a Marvel completest from about the time The Fantastic Four came out until 1975. I also bought most of the DCs. That’s about it. In 1975, I got interested in old cars, and after that I just collected comics I liked. That’s when I sold most of my original artwork and some of my comic books, so I could buy some old Hudsons. [laughs] Now, car collecting is BS: Agreed. Manning probably just a step above my interest in comic books. But knew a lot, too, and Glen taking in some California sun at Russ ManningÕs I’m still interested in comics. I go to a bookstore in Ogden, Bill Spicer is a very place at the 1964 fanclave. 25 miles away, for my comics, twice a month. My main knowledgeable comics interest is still the JSA and now the JSA Strange fan. It sounds like your visit, that day, was kind-of like a meeting of Adventures. I collect anything that features the JSA. I’ve cut down on the gods, or demi-gods, anyway. Marvels. I collect Fantastic Four, Avengers, Captain America, SpiderMan, and a few others. I’ve sort-of weaned myself off X-Men. It’s got JOHNSON: I don’t think anybody had a collection as huge as Rick Durell did at that time. I remember he brought out all these bound to be really something outstanding before I buy an independent comic. volumes of newspapers that had been discarded when the papers had BS: There have been some very good ones like Astro City and Tom been transferred to film. His garage was just filled with bound volumes Strong, to name a couple that would probably appeal to the old-time of newspaper editions. He was taking out the comic strips he wanted fan in you. What about fanzines? Have you been following the new and then selling the rest of the stuff to somebody else. His mother had Alter Ego? thrown out his comic book collection while he was in the service. So when he came back, he had to start re-collecting. He went out to all JOHNSON: Alter Ego is the highlight of the month. When I get Alter these used bookstores in small towns and bought back his collection. Ego, I usually sit down and by nightfall, I’ve completely read the issue. BS: This would have been before people were widely scouring these stores. You could actually find some bargains at that time.

BS: Wow. That’s music to my ears. Fans like you are the lifeblood of Alter Ego. Glen, is there anything else you’d like to talk about?

JOHNSON: I had been corresponding with Rick Durell quite often, and after we left Manning’s, we drove back to El Segundo and stayed at his place. He had a vast comics collection. Shortly after I returned home from that vacation, I picked up some comics for Russ, who actually collected comic books, too. In Albuquerque, I ran across a 1940s Dell comic called Popular Comics, which had reprints of Dick Tracy. I ran across a whole bunch of these, and Russ wanted them. He offered to give me either cash or original artwork! He didn’t have any completed pages, but he offered to draw or redraw anything I liked. To me, it didn’t seem like it would be “original” artwork of a comic book if he redrew it. So, a dummy, I took the money. [Bill chuckles] But he would have drawn any subject I wanted. I could have even written the material and he would have drawn it.

JOHNSON: One thing we didn’t touch on is that I’m a serious Pete Morisi fan. When Ronn Foss visited me in New Mexico, he gave me Pete’s address. I corresponded with him from about 1963 up until he died. I visited him on three different occasions and I called him occasionally. Pete and Alex Toth went to school together. Pete told me of going over to Mama Toth’s, and she would cook Hungarian food for them. They were good friends. I guess they were in art school together. Morisi would sit behind Toth and kick his chair and irritate him. You know, stuff like that? [Bill laughs]

BS: [pained] Ohh! Well, that’s the way it goes! Speaking of fan-meets, in the course of researching The Golden Age of Comic Fandom, I discovered that you attended a Gateway Con in St. Louis in 1968. You were in a panel with Alan Hanley and Ed Aprill. Roy Thomas was guest of honor at that con. How’d you end up in St. Louis? JOHNSON: We were living in New Mexico, and we were going back to Superior [Michigan] to visit friends. St. Louis was on our route back home. BS: Did you ever get by Biljo White’s place in Columbia, Missouri? JOHNSON: I did. I stopped by one time and visited him. I got to see his White House of Comics. I know I was a little disappointed. I mean, I thought it was going to be a little grander—a little bigger, a little nicer, a little well-lit building. It was just kind of a cinder block building. BS: Did you ever meet Jerry Bails?

Fan-tastic! (Above:) Bill Spicer, on left, and Richard Kyle, the two fans who initially advanced the terms Ògraphic storyÓ and Ògraphic novelÓ in the pages of SpicerÕs1960s fanzine Fantasy Illustrated. Taken at the Manning fanclave. (Right:) Rick Durell, on left, and John McGeehan at the same 1964 fan-meet.

BS: Anything else you’d like to add to this interview? JOHNSON: Yes. I went to a New York comic con in 1970 or ’71. While I was there, somebody found out where Tower Comics stored their old original artwork. I think they broke in and stole it,

Comic Fandom Archive

Wonder Of Wonders! Above are the two pieces Glen Johnson commissioned of Justice Society of America art, with Wonder Man and the original Daredevil replacing Superman and Batman, respectively. (Left:) Joe Staton, primary artist of the 1970s JSA revival, drew this quasi-re-creation of Win MortimerÕsclassic cover of All-Star Comics #36 (1947). In it, Wonder Man, Charlie BiroÕsDaredevil, the Quality heroine Miss America, and Hour-Man stand in for Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, and Dr. Mid-Nite. Roy Thomas had utilized Miss America as the post-Crisis replacement for Wonder Woman in The Young All-Stars in the late 1980sÑand we guess Glen just liked Hour-Man better than Doc Mid-Nite! Probably because ÒDaredevilÓ is now a name trademarked by Marvel, Glen had the name ÒThunderboltÓ used on the reconstructionÑ but, of course, MarvelÕshad its own ÒWonder ManÓ for some years, as well. But this was all done in a spirit of fannish fun. (Right:) Mark Heike, who draws for Bill BlackÕsAC Comics titles, based this illo on Neal AdamsÕmemorable cover for DC Special #28 (1977), which featured the first-ever origin story for the JSAÑagain with Wonder Man and the 1940s Daredevil (minus his trademark spiked belt) in for the World’s Finest duo. [Art ©2005 Joe Staton & Mark Heike, respectively; JSA heroes & Miss America TM & ©2005 DC Comics.]`

because there were stacks of Wood and Ditko stuff for sale for about $20-$25 a page. I spent two to three hundred dollars buying that original artwork. BS: Besides the San Diego Comic-Con you attended recently, when was the last time you were at a convention? JOHNSON: Twelve years ago, in San Diego. I went to the first half dozen or so of those in the 1970s. BS: One last thing: can you tell me about the two Justice Society covers that you commissioned? The first one is a fantasy cover for AllStar Comics #36 by Joe Staton. JOHNSON: One of the things that’s always bothered me is that after Crisis on Infinite Earths Roy could no longer use Batman and Superman. He had developed this beautiful All-Star Squadron for years, and then they tell him, “You can’t use Superman and Batman,” and half the stories he’s written have Superman and Batman. My thought was, what if there were some sort of … BS: Alternate world or an alternate version? JOHNSON: Something like that. Roy did do one version of that, when he made replacements for Superman and Batman [in The Young All-

Stars]. He created “Iron” Munro and Flying Fox to take their place. But what about the JSA origin, where Superman and Batman were? Those characters weren’t around then. Someone had to replace them. And I always thought, well, Wonder Man from Fox Publications was a perfect example of who could replace Superman. He was so much of a direct imitation that, after one issue, they— BS: Sued him out of existence. JOHNSON: [laughs] And I thought a good replacement for Batman would have been Pete Morisi’s Thunderbolt—if he’d had a predecessor. And that’s who’s in the cover—the predecessor for Thunderbolt, and Wonder Man as a replacement for Superman. [NOTE: Though Glen didn’t mention him by name in this interview, the “predecessor” of the Charlton Thunderbolt he was talking about was clearly the original Daredevil, created by Charles Biro for Lev Gleason Publications in the early 1940. Morisi had stated that he modeled Peter Cannon/Thunderbolt’s costume after Daredevil’s.] BS: So this is kind-of like a Golden Age Thunderbolt, if such a thing had existed. JOHNSON: Yeah. The Justice Society DC Special, “The Untold Origin of the Justice Society” cover that I had done, is the same thing. Somebody had to have been in that early Justice Society story if

A Talk With Glen Johnson

Along the Navajo Trail In the early 1970s, Glen collaborated with Golden (even Platinum) Age artist Creig Flessel on this unsold comic strip sample, done for submission to the NEA Syndicate. Nice work! [©2005 Glen Johnson & Creig Flessel.]

Superman and Batman weren’t there.

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BS: I see. You had them replaced with the same two characters, Wonder Man and Thunderbolt. Very nice. And it’s a very nice evocation of Neal Adams by Mark Heike. And you have the original art to these, because they were commissions. Glen, it has been a pleasure talking to you. This has been a really fun conversation. Have you done much writing in recent years? JOHNSON: I’ve done quite a lot on old cars, but I was just thinking the other day that I haven’t written anything at all since I stopped working for the government. I used to write all my articles at work during my spare time. [laughs] I retired four years ago. BS: Well, maybe we can get you to write something again for Alter Ego, Glen. JOHNSON: I would love to do that. [Look for Bill Schelly’s major multi-part coverage of all three 1966 New York Comicons, beginning soon in Alter Ego. As Robert Jennings used to say, “If something’s worth writing about, it’s worth writing about at length.” These 1966 comicons perfected the format that has stayed with us ever since. And, as luck would have it, a number of the panel discussions (featuring pros like Otto Binder, Dick Giordano, Bill Harris, Ted White, Klaus Nordling, Gil Kane, and many others were audio-taped, and those precious tapes have come into our trembling hands. Talk about a sense of wonder! Stay tuned!! [You can find complete info about all Bill’s books on the history of fandom, etc., at www.billschelly.com, which also includes some of his personal and fandom photos, artwork, and such-like. All his Hamster Press books can be ordered on-line. See ad on next page.]

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Harbor attack, and with the first truly sinister appearance of Degaton, would really connect with today’s fans. What I’d most like to see, though, is a return to those thrilling days of yesteryear, when All-Star characters and All-Star creators combined to give us a resonant echo of the Golden Age. (The next JSA spin-off mini ought to be the work of you guys.)

Those A/E conversations didn’t answer a couple of vexing questions I’ve had about All-Star Squadron (and also about Infinity, Inc.):

ike Sekowsky penciled the first Justice League/Justice Society team-up in 1963, and, since this issue’s letter-column deals partly with the JSA and related teams, Aussie fan-artist Shane Foley provided the above pic of a Sekowsky figure transformed into our mag’s “maskot” Alter Ego. (Admittedly, it was originally a drawing of Adam Strange in Showcase #17.) Thanks, as always, Shane! [Art ©2005 Shane Foley; Alter Ego is a trademark of Roy & Dann Thomas; costume designed by Ron Harris. See p. 88 to order a full-color copy of Alter Ego: The Graphic Novel by Roy and Ron, directly from Heroic Publishing, for just $17.95. Hey, it’s even had a rave review or two!] I’m beginning to think (that “I” is Roy, of course—I always switch to first-person mode in this section) we may never catch up on our letters pages, but at least we won’t fall any further behind this month, as we print missives related to A/E #44, which dealt in large part with the Justice Society and the 1980s All-Star Squadron and Infinity, Inc., starting with this lengthy note from Gerry Desrosiers, who asks several questions not answered in #44: Dear Roy,

Alter Ego #44 was another excellent issue, one I found captivating from its wraparound cover to, well, its wraparound cover. While I’ll miss the treat of having two wonderful covers each issue, I won’t miss the dilemma of not knowing where to start. I’m grateful for these recurring encounters with the Golden and Silver Ages of Comics. I’m not a literalist when it comes to the Silver Age. That is, I refuse to believe that it gave way to the Bronze Age (or any other age of inferior metal) at an arbitrary date. For me, the Silver Age includes the early-to-mid-1980s, or at least some of the comics that were being done then. A/E #44 filled in what had been a grievous omission from its pages… At last, a look at the All-Star Squadron! I’ve been waiting for years for this generation’s Roy Thomas to give us a perspective on that series. But wait, you’re this generation’s Roy Thomas. So, what took you so long? Your conversations in #44 with both Rich Buckler and Jerry Ordway were nearly as delightful as your collaborations of over two decades ago. They made me yearn for at least a trade paperback republication of your work (though I own every issue). The earliest arc, in particular, with its depiction of the Pearl

First, I have always wondered about the title “All-Star Squadron” and whether it, too, went through some permutations, as you indicate “Infinity, Inc.” did. The “All-Star” part of the name is obvious, as is the “Squadron” part. (Why wasn’t it originally called the Justice Squadron of America back in the ’40s, I wonder? Too much like Captain Midnight’s Secret Squadron, perhaps?) But “All-Star” and “Squadron” together do generate that awkward and unfortunate acronym. Implicit in the name “The Justice Battalion,” of course, is the notion that the JSA might have added members or associates, for the duration, becoming a true battalion. The name “All-American Squad” might also have been good, being a nod to the company origins of the JSA. In military terms, I believe “squad” and “squadron” are synonymous, both comprising groups of from 8 to 15 members. Except for a few issues where everybody showed up, the All-Star Squadron did seem to live up to that appellation. Still, I’d like to know how that name came about. I also have every issue of Infinity, Inc. I have to confess, though, that I was a little less fond of this title. For me, that series represented the aging of the JSA, in ways that made it hard to escape the reality of their having been around since the 1940s. Maybe it was because the Infinitors were their actual children (in many cases), rather than potential protégés drawn from more contemporary friendships. Also, except for the first arc, the members of the JSA did not figure so prominently in that series. Even as someone now pushing 60, I find it difficult to identify with sexagenarian super-types. Still, I did enjoy Infinity, Inc., and it’s good to know the characters are still around, even if altered in some ways that don’t always seem positive. [NOTE: At this point Gerry details things he likes and dislikes about DC’s recent handling of the Infinity, Inc. heroes. To resist my becoming rabid on the subject, and since they aren’t germane to A/E’s franchise anyway, this part of his letter has been omitted. —Roy.] That prompts my second question, about the name “Infinity, Inc.” Your article doesn’t really explain the conceptual jump fom “Centurions” to “Infinity, Inc.” by way of “Young J.U.S.T.I.C.E.” The name “Infinity, Inc.” actually suggests the kind of mission that you might have envisioned for your “Time Titans” concept, not that I know what that concept was, exactly. In any event, I miss the All-Stars, and would love to see new and ongoing adventures of the extended family of characters. We are as far removed, today, from the days of the creation of the All-Star Squadron in the early ’80s as Silver Age fans were removed from the days of the original All-Star Comics run. Wouldn’t it be nice if DC gave you and Messrs. Buckler and Ordway a green light (or lantern) to return to the days of yesteryear in a new series? That would be a true All-Star fan’s dream. Thanks again for your over four decades of entertaining this comics reader, first as a fan, next as a creator, and now as an “historical-fanphilosopher” (still very much a creator, though) of the world of comics. Gerry Desrosiers Whew! I’m reminded of a comment Stan Lee made in print about my second letter to Fantastic Four, back in 1962: “I’m glad we don’t pay for these letters by the word!” Luckily, I can give you some brief answers:

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No, no name except “All-Star Squadron” was ever considered for the World War II-set concept on which I sold DC. Ironically, the name was probably inspired in large part by the “All-Star Super-Squad” term used in the 1970s revival of All-Star Comics—even though I’d always hated that name, as detracting from the JSA! I submitted “Infinity, Inc.” as the name of the new group to DC after we learned “Centurions” was the name of a forthcoming TV cartoon series, but I was never totally sold on it—I just never came up with anything I liked better than that suggestion of Dann’s. The rationale was that the “Inc.” part makes the group sound like a business enterprise, and these kids were going into the “family business” (of super-heroing), as an ad for the first issue (which I may or may not have written) declared. The early 1980s were also the dawn of the age of yuppies, of young people more interested in making a living than in tuning in, turning on, and dropping out, and the name “Infinity, Inc.” seemed to go with that, as well. Yeah, I’ll admit it—I’d love to be allowed to write the All-Star Squadron again for DC, but don’t hold your breath. I certainly won’t hold mine—nor am I likely to have any comment in these pages about any future JSA-related stories set in the 1940s or 1950s, both areas about which I submitted concepts years ago, as recorded in A/E, Vol. 3, #9, only to be roundly ignored. But my WWIIset super-hero series Anthem is now definitely set to be printed—in full color—early in 2006 by Heroic Publishing, which previously released Dann’s and my Captain Thunder and Blue Bolt in the late 1980s and which recently published the beautifully-printed Alter Ego: The Graphic Novel mentioned on the preceding page and shown on p. 88.

published an interview with Lew Schwartz, 1946-1953 “Batman” ghost, in our very last issue, and we asked him about your conjecture, faxing him a copy of the Ike-book art. He faxed back the following: “I left Bob in June of ’53. This is definitely Bob Kane art. Lettering also looks like Bob’s!” Maybe we should’ve sent a copy to Shelly Moldoff, too—but Shelly receives every issue of A/E, and he didn’t correct Michael T. Gilbert’s assumption that this was actual Kane art, for once. And, speaking of Golden Age great Shelly Moldoff, here’s a short note he sent, as well: Roy— Received Alter Ego #44. You are doing a great job for the comic book industry, and the article and interview with Joe Kubert is well deserved. But, since Jules Feiffer’s book The Great Comic Book Heroes (published in 1965), I am considered the Golden Age artist of “Hawkman.” I did the artwork until I went into service in 1944. Sheldon Mayer and I had a falling out, and when I was discharged he told me to go work for someone else!! It would have been proper to have mentioned me as the original Golden Age artist of “Hawkman”… without taking anything away from the genius of Joe Kubert. I also penciled a “Green Lantern” story for Irwin Hasen to ink (breaking him into the feature).

A final note: it’s interesting that you mention that, if the group had been rechristened “the Justice Squadron of America” for the duration of WWII instead of “the Justice Battalion,” they could have kept the same initials! Maybe nobody thought of it? Now, before Norman Mailer has to think up a new title for his book Advertisements for Myself because I’ve usurped it, let’s go on to a short note from Ron Goulart, a pro writer equally at home with comics history, mystery, or science-fiction—and who in fact scripted several nice comics stories for Marvel back when I was editorin-chief: Roy: At the risk of going against Shelly Moldoff, who is an admirable chap, the Batman drawing in the Eisenhower cartoon book [shown in #44’s “Comic Crypt” section] looks to me like it was ghosted by Lew Sayre Schwartz. Ron Goulart As you now know, Ron, we

From Here To Infinity This luscious page of Jerry Ordway pencil art from Infinity, Inc. #9 (Dec. 1984), the penultimate issue of the 10-part ÒGenerationsÓ story arc, features Nuklon (since rechristened and re-costumed as Atom Smasher in todayÕsJSA) and the Golden Age Wildcat. Jerry inked the figures in panel 6 before turning it in; he, Mike Machlan, and Tony DeZuniga are listed as co-embellishers of that issue. With thanks to Jerry O. [©2005 DC Comics.]

Oh, and one correction re Alter Ego #45, page 8. I drew the pirate cover of Adventure Comics #49, not Leo O’Mealia. Continue your excellent publication, “Shelly” [Sheldon Moldoff] Thanks for the correction of the Adventure #49 cover ID, Shelly. We took that from other sources, of course, where it has apparently been miscredited for years. By the way, you mentioning penciling a Golden Age “Green Lantern” tale to break Irwin Hasen in on that feature—does that mean you penciled or at least laid out the lead story in All-American Comics #26 (May 1941), which is the earliest (printed) “GL” story credited to Irwin? It was reprinted in The Golden Age Green Lantern Archives, Vol. 1. As to the matter of who’s the “Golden Age ‘Hawkman’ artist”—well, as far as I’m concerned, there were a number of them—and three of them really count. First, of course, we’d have to include Dennis Neville, who drew the first three “Hawkman” stories, in Flash Comics #1-3 in 1939-40, and probably designed the costume—before he was replaced by you as of Flash #4. Both because of the undisputed quality of the work you did on both covers and interior stories, and because you were the artist for nearly 60 issues of Flash and

comments, correspondence, & corrections

The Golden Age of Hawkman Ð A Triptych ( Top left:) Dennis Neville drew the first three ÒHawkmanÓ stories. This page from Flash Comics #1 (Dec. 1940), written by Gardner Fox and drawn by Neville, begins the origin of the Winged WonderÑwho had light blue wings, gold wristbands, and a helmet which sat atop his head in the first few issues. [©2005 DC Comics.] (Above:) Sheldon Moldoff drew all ÒHawkmanÓ stories in Flash and All-Star Comics from 1940-44. This is a recent re-creation by ÒShellyÓ of one of his classic Hawkman poses, a commission done for collector Paul Bach, Jr. Thanks to Paul and Shelly for sharing it with us! [Art ©2005 Sheldon Moldoff; Hawkman TM & ©2005 DC Comics.] (Left:) When Shelly entered the armed services, a very young Joe Kubert became the third major Golden Age ÒHawkmanÓ artist and drew the majority of stories between 1944 and the demise of Flash Comics at the turn of 1949. This scrumptious page of original art is marked as being from Flash #97, a 1948 issueÑbut, in reality, it has never before been published! ItÕsactually page 7 of one of the inventory tales Òwritten offÓ by DC for tax purposes on Sept. 30, 1949. We were fortunate to be able to print three other pages from this (probable) 8-pager in A/E V3#4 & 5. This one, autographed by Joe at a later date, comes to us courtesy of Heritage Comics, as retrieved for us by Dominic Bongo. Check out Heritage ComicsÕwebsite at <HeritageComics.com>. [Hawkman TM & ©2005 DC Comics.]

Kinstler, and Bob Oksner, or Chester Kozlak, who did several of them, each had their moment, but were basically just passing through.) You and Joe both supplied the “gold” of the Golden Age, Shelly, and you’re both to be honored for it. Next, an answer to a mystery unveiled in Jim Amash’s short interview with “Green Lantern”/“Justice Society” (and later Dondi) artist Irwin Hasen, courtesy of his friend Dan Makara: Hi Roy: I’d promised to take Irwin out to dinner yesterday. I did have the opportunity to meet with Joe Simon and show him the back of that Irwin Hasen Green Lantern daily strip. He verified the Sandman sketches as his probably preliminaries for Adventure Comics #89 (Dec. 1943), and was quite surprised and delighted to see them again. Dan Makara Thanks for the info, Dan—and for the comparison art reprinted on the following page. As you can see there, we’ve fixed the Green Lantern daily whose panels got printed out of order in #44, as well. Here’s a letter from Tom Batiuk, creator and writer of a certain newspaper comic strip of which we reprinted a daily in connection with our Murphy Anderson interview in A/E #44: 23 issues of All-Star during the years 1940-44 which by any standard must be considered the height of the Golden Age, you are probably the most important “Hawkman” artist of all in certain respects. At the same time, by my lights, the Golden Age lasted through at least 1950 or so, and Joe Kubert drew the majority of “Hawkman” stories during that period and became equally identified with the Winged Wonder. (Later artists who drew one “Hawkman” tale each, such as Paul Reinman, Everett

Dear Roy, It was great seeing my Funky Winkerbean strip featuring Murphy Anderson turn up in the fascinating Anderson piece in Alter Ego #44. Murphy is a long-time hero of mine, and one of the highlights of my career was getting my picture taken with him after we’d both gotten awards at the San Diego Comic-Con.

re:

How Green Was My Lantern This, not the way we had it in A/E #44, is the actual order of the 4 panels of this sample daily of a projected but neversold 1948 Green Lantern newspaper comic strip drawn by Irwin Hasen. Funny thing isÑthe sequence makes, if anything, even less sense in this order than the way we misprinted it, with the 4th panel moved to the front position! WeÕdsure like to ask the (unidentified) writer precisely whatÕsgoing on here! [Green Lantern TM & ©2005 DC Comics.]

One word of correction, however. Funky is copyrighted by Batom, Inc., and not by North America Syndicate. NAS distributes Funky, but doesn’t own it. I didn’t go through a lawsuit to gain those rights only to have you inadvertently hand them back. While syndicates do own a number of features, many, fortunately, are now creator-owned and it’s not a small distinction. Just ask the Siegel family. Which is why it’s important these days to carefully check the copyright in the strip when crediting something. I know you won’t recall this, but we once talked in the late ’60s when I was fresh out of college and looking to revolutionize the comic book world. I’d just gotten my chops busted by an editor at DC and arrived at the Marvel offices with the wind fading in my sails. You were much kinder, and after reviewing my work suggested that I come back after I’d spent some more time with it. I fully intended to do that, but got sidetracked by a project that eventually led to the syndication of Funky. I feel that not only do I owe you a retroactive thank-you for your considerate treatment, but also one for not giving me a job. Things turned out much better in the end. I enjoy the magazine and hope it continues until the sun burns out. Tom Batiuk Well, we may hang up our capes a bit sooner than that, Tom, but hopefully not for a while yet. Glad to have been of service to your career, even if partly by not pushing for Stan Lee to hire you in the late 1960s. (I

certainly wasn’t in a hiring-andfiring position at that time!) Oh, and I apologize for accidentally typing the name of your strip, which I read every day in The State newspaper of Columbia, SC, as Funky Winterbean. Honest, I spotted it in the 11th hour and phoned in a last-minute change… but in the rush to get the issue to the printer, that alteration didn’t get made. Glad you didn’t hold it against us… or maybe you didn’t notice? The following letter from Sam Kujava is in response to comments in Irwin Hasen’s interview in #44:

Dear Roy, Why am I still dwelling on something Irwin Hasen said on page 17 of Alter Ego #44? At that point in the interview, Jim Amash has Hasen remembering contemporaries in short vignettes, from the vantage point of 50-60 years later. Of Lee Elias, Hasen says he knew [his fellow DC artist] “very well. Lee was a very troubled guy. He was paranoid… afraid that everyone was talking about him. He was very talented, played a wonderful violin, but he was a very complex, paranoid person.” I knew Lee Elias, as teacher, mentor, and friend, from 1976, when I met him during the first year of the Joe Kubert School, and continued an ongoing weekly telephone conversation with the man up until his untimely stroke in 1987. Hasen may be right in his assessment of Elias as he knew him decades before; I respect Irwin’s opinion almost as much

Mr. Sandman, Send Me a DreamÉ The partly-penciled, partly-inked black-&white sketches at upper left and upper right of this montage put together by Dan Makara were first seen in A/E #44, reproÕdfrom the back of the 1948 Hasen Green Lantern sample daily. The two images at top center, as well as the three panels along the bottom, are all taken from the Simon & Kirby ÒSandmanÓ story in Adventure Comics #89 (Dec. 1943)Ñ and, as shown, the running crook is from the cover! JoeÕssignature on the sketch at top right accidentally got cut off in our first printing. ItÕsstill a mystery to Ye Editor, though, why Joe drew such elaborate sketches on a separate sheet before tracing them onto a page of original art. [©2005 DC Comics.]

comments, correspondence, & corrections as I do his art…but the Lee Elias I knew for over a decade was a far different person. Fellow students at the Kubert School can concur; Lee Elias was the type of teacher who willingly, and with humor, told stories about himself, about the mistakes he made in his career, and the lessons he hoped we would learn from them! Years of late-night phone conversations proved to me that Lee Elias was honest, candid, generous with his time and his learned-the-hard-way insights. He loved art, he loved music, and he didn’t mind talking about the experiences he had lived through, if he thought it would help a former student who developed into a professional. So, I won’t argue with Mr. Hasen regarding his opinion of Lee Elias. But I hope these words will add to the picture of the late, great teacher, artist, musician, and human being! Am I a bit prejudiced? Darn right! Sam Kujava 1157 S. Fisk St. Green Bay, WI 54304 We’re glad to have your assessment of Lee Elias, Sam. He was certainly an excellent artist, whether at DC, Marvel, Harvey (with “The Black Cat”) or elsewhere, and I’m sure Irwin meant no disrespect to him. The same person can often be seen in quite different lights by two different people—even more so when they know him at different periods in his life. We hope soon to print the second part of a Lee Elias interview; we featured the first part way back in A/E #14. Next up, some welcome info from Steven Rowe about the brief late1940s comic book career of Arthur Adler, who apparently scripted the last several solo Golden Age “Atom” stories for Flash Comics—and a few non-DC mags, as well:

Hi Roy— The Joe Buresch piece was fascinating. His gag-panel cartoon days started years before he mentions they did—mainly because he did tons of “sexy” (for the time—the level of family-hour TV sex humor today) cartoons for men’s digests—I think as early as World War II. I’ve seen examples from the 1940s through the 1960s. A lot of comic book artists ground these out, since it was a quick $5-$25 depending on the market. They usually started peddling at the high end and worked their way down to the bottom (actually below the bottom was The Hobo News at $1 a cartoon when they weren’t just lifting them from old magazines without paying). By the way, the common belief is that artist Bill Ward started heavily in “men’s” cartoon magazines with his melon-breasted femmes post-“Torchy.” I, however, own an original in his “Blackhawk” style, done for a Harvey digest circa 1943 or so. He just got heavily noticed post-“Torchy” and started producing more as the comic book market slowed. The crossover between these somewhat sleazy digests and the other common markets would make an interesting story. George Hagenauer And if you decide to write it, we’d be happy to “let George do it.” Now for some hard info about Joe Buresch, all the way from Italy and Alberto Becattini, writer of the study of artist Matt Baker that appeared in A/E #47: Roy— I’ve done some research on the prolific Joe E. Buresch, whose

Roy— In your Alter Ego #44, you had an interview with Arthur Adler, but with some of his comics un-ID’d. “Jefferson” is “Jefferson Jones,” which ran in Startling Comics #44-53, and America’s Best Comics #29. “Kathy” ran in Thrilling Comics #64, 66-74, and in her own comic, Kathy #1-27. “Roger Dodger” ran in Exciting Comics #51-67, and one issue of his own comic. Speculating, I think that if someone pulls out Startling #53 or America’s Best #9, Thrilling #68, and Exciting #64, we might find the very stories he wrote (and if I had these issues, I would confirm this speculation). Steven Rowe 531 Prestwood Dr. Hartsville, SC 29550 Thanks, Steven! All the above comics title, as you well know (but perhaps some of our readers do not), was published by the company alternately known as Standard, Better, Pines, and Nedor. Too bad Arthur Adler never got a belated crack at The Black Terror or The Fighting Yank. And our apologies for misspelling your name in the credits and in a caption accompanying the interview with Arthur. Also featured in A/E #44 were brief tributes to three recentlydeparted Golden Agers. Interestingly, although Kin Platt had a reasonably high profile at Timely/Marvel in the late 1940s, and Rudy Palais drew adventure material for several different publishers, it was humor cartoonist Joe Buresch who caused commentary by two of A/Eficionados—starting with George Hagenauer, whose recent book with Max Allan Collins on post-WWII male-oriented pulps, Men’s Adventure Magazines, is well worth seeking out for both text and reproduced artwork:

F O R

I N F O R M A T I O N :

68 E. 79TH ST. NEW YORK, NY 10021 • (212) 861-6879

re: Picture Stories V1#3]; Pete “Kid” Calahan 1937 [FPS V1#7]; The Caveman Cowboy 1937 [Western Picture Stories #4; also cover art]; Buck Bush 1937 [WPS #2, 3]; The Swamp Rat 1939 [KDF V2#1]; House of Wholesale Murder 1939 [KDF V2#3]; Mountain Murder 1939 Alberto Becattini We’re always overjoyed to print additions or corrections to material we’ve published, Alberto, as you well know. Fan-parodists Steve and Dave Herring were the subject of Bill Schelly’s “Comic Fandom Archive” section of issue #44, and here’s the latter half of that duo with a few comments and a major correction: Hi, Bill and Roy, Just got a copy of A/E #44 with Part Two of the interview with Steve and myself. Thanks for getting in all the photos and pages from Odd. They all looked good, even those from faded ditto pages. You may have noticed there was one mistake in the photo captions. The two photos on the bottom of page 73 are not pictures of Steve. I have to admit that I was the kid devouring a copy of Humbug and the guy with the machine gun in Vietnam. Steve was fortunate enough to elude the draft. The issue does have a lot of interesting material. I especially enjoyed Steve Skeates’ article “Soup and Marbles” about the wonderful Superman spoof from Mad #4. Dave Herring

A Black Cat Crosses Your Path WeÕrenot sure of the original issue number of this action-packed splash from an issue of HarveyÕsBlack Cat drawn by Lee Elias circa 1947; but weÕreglad that, in 1993, it was reprinted in the black-&-white Black Cat Comics #10. The words ÒThe OriginalÓ were added to the logo to differentiate her from the later Black Cat who chummed around with Spider-Man. Elias was one of the comic book artists most influenced by Milt CaniffÕsTerry and the Pirates, and even ghosted work for Caniff at one time. [©2005 Lorne-Harvey Publications, Inc.]

interview with Jim appeared in the latest ish of A/E. Here is the additional information: Syndicated Strips (mostly panels, writer (w) & artist (a) on all except where noted): Detectives Nehi and Skyhi (Sunday) 1934-37 [a.k.a. Nehi and Skyhi. Note that Buresch said he started doing cartoons in 1935, whereas this one started in 1934]; Jimmy Rivers’ Adventures 1937; Sketches from Life 1937; Cowboy Joe (d) 1937-38 [later drawn by Ralph S. Matz, ran until 1940]; Crosby’s Country Cousins 1938-42 [written by Abe Crosby, a.k.a. Our Country Cousins]; Fireman Sam 1939; Rags n’ Muffins 1939; Ride ’Em Cowboy 1939; Smile a While 1939; Deep River Dan 1939; Dinah Mite (d) 1952-66 [reruns until 1987]; Fletcher the 4-H’r 1958-87; The Sporting Thing (d) 1953-55 [reruns from 1959-87?]; The Kids 1973-86; Classified Comics 1982; Outdoor Mini-Tips c. 1988-2003 Comics Books (for Comic Magazine Co., later taken over by Centaur, w/a on all): Jimmy and Jean c. 1936-38; Hezzy of the Hills c. 1936-38; Roadhouse Racket 1936 [Detective Picture Stories #1]; Stand-in Girl 1937 [DPS #4]; The Murder of Miser Flint 1937 [DPS #5, reprinted in Keen Detective Funnies V1#11, 1938]; Double Trouble 1937 [Funny

ÒHawk-aaaaa!Ó George Hagenauer provided this early-1940s Bill Ward ÒgirlieÓ cartoon, done during the period when he was also drawing ÒBlackhawkÓ for Quality. The penciled tagline of the cartoon is: ÒWant any military secrets?Ó [©2005 the respective copyright holders.]

comments, correspondence, & corrections

James Clink of Glendora, CA, writes that he wishes we had also covered The Young All-Stars in issue #44, as it fulfilled the mention I made in my 1982 Centurions/Infinity, Inc. proposal of turning a villain into a hero or vice versa in that mag, with Tsunami joining the later group after fighting for Japan in All-Star Squadron, while YAS’ Tigress, “after being killed and resurrected by Wonder Woman’s enemy Gundra the Valkyrie, was set upon the path to become the evil Golden Age Huntress.” We didn’t have room for everything in A/E #44, James, but we do plan some Young All-Stars coverage in the (hopefully near) future. Thanks for the kind words about that post-Crisis series. I myself always felt Young All-Stars was the equal of All-Star Squadron in most ways, but because it necessarily downplayed most of the original 1940s heroes, it quickly fell off the radar screens of even some fans of the Golden Age. They missed some fun stuff, I think. Oh, and related to our mis-identification in a photo in the Jerry Robinson interview back in ish #39, Mark Mayerson informs us: “There was a Mendelson who produced the Charlie Brown animated specials, but it was Lee, not Jack. Lee has no ‘h’ in his last name. In addition to the Peanuts material, Lee Mendelson also produced the Garfield specials and was executive producer of the prime-time series Eight Is Enough. Bill Melendez was the director and producer of the Charlie Brown TV specials.” Thanks, Mark. Everybody got that? Finally? And, on that modest note, I’ll simply ask you to send those cards (actually, nobody sends postcards anymore except sometimes the great Alex Toth, bless ’im!), letters (got one just the other day), and e-mails (20 so far today, but then it’s only 6:00 a.m.) to: The late Joe Buresch drew this cartoon a few years back especially for collector Shaun Clancy. [©2005 Estate of Joe Buresch.]

One of the greatest comic book stories of all time, Dave—in my opinion as well as Steve’s. Sorry for the misidentification. A Few Last-Minute Comments & Corrections: Delmo Walters, Jr., feels that, instead of listing a copyright credit for the New York Post Syndicate (“there is none,” he says), we should’ve written “©2005 NYPHoldings” or ©2005 Newscorp.” He’s probably right, but the art listed the Syndicate, which evidently no longer exists, and we don’t have time to track down the latest corporate name attached to strips, so we went with the original copyright. Next time, we’ll try the ever-faithful “©2005 so-and-so or successors in interest,” which should cover it. Both Jim Amash and Jake Oster inform us that the Spectre #8 cover on p. 30 of A/E #44 was drawn (and even signed!) by Nick Cardy, not by Jerry Grandenetti as listed. Great eyes, Jim—but they (like my own) must’ve been on holiday when we both proofed the issue and missed the signature the first time around! Robin Snyder, editor/publisher of the monthly oral history/ newsletter The Comics! [see ad on p. 43], dropped us a brief line to say that “Marc Swayze continues to set high standards for himself and the comics. Jango in the Dec. A/E is better than most comic books or strips being published.” Agreed, Robin! Mark Shainblum points out that in #44’s “re:” section he is referred to as the writer of the 1986 Canadian comics-history study Canuck Comics, when he (through his Matrix Books imprint) was actually only its publisher. The actual writer/editor of that book, as we actually knew, was John Bell, with special contributions from Luc Pomerleau and Robert MacMillan. Mark adds that John “is also the curator of two great online exhibits about Canadian comics, produced by the National Library and Archives of Canada. Guardians of the North is an exploration of the national super-hero in Canadian comic art and can be found at www.collectionscanada.ca/superheroes. The other is called Beyond the Funnies and takes a broader look at the history of Canadian comics in general, online at www.collectionscanada.ca/comics.” Thanks for all the info, Mark.

Roy Thomas 32 Bluebird Trail St. Matthews, SC 29135

Fax: (803) 826-6389 E-mail: roydann@ntinet.com

Don’t forget—#53’s our haunt-happy Halloween issue, with Dracula, Frankenstein’s Monster, and Mike Esposito—not necessarily in that order!

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In Memoriam

Al Kurzrok (1939-2005) ÒOneOf The Funniest Men I Ever KnewÓ by Roy Thomas n old friend of mine passed away on May 3, 2005, of what an Internet obituary called “complications from a long-term chronic illness.” His name was Al Kurzrok, and I only knew him for a decade, from around 1967 through the mid-’70s when we both lived in New York and both worked for Marvel Comics. I hadn’t been in contact with him since some time before the death of our mutual friend, Marvel production manager John Verpoorten, at the end of 1977. I first met Al through John, I believe, though he was also friends with Herb Trimpe, Stu Schwartzberg, and Gary Friedrich.

Some months ago, I learned that “Allan Kurzrok” had become a psychologist in Florida, and I was sent contact info for him. I intended to get in touch with him as soon as I got a chance, with an eye to interviewing him for Alter Ego. Turns out I never did… emphasis on the “never.” Al was born on October 30, 1939. While Jerry Bails & Hames Ware’s 1970s Who’s Who of American Comic Books lists him as attending the School of Visual Arts in his native New York, an obituary on HeraldTribune.com says he graduated from the Art Students League and later “became an illustrator and writer for Marvel Comic superheroes, including Spiderman and Fighting Commandos. He later was the voice of Casper the Friendly Ghost, Richie Rich, and Little Audrey.” It also reports that he “drew 102 comic strips as part of his doctoral dissertation” (in psychology) at the University of South Florida, and that said dissertation “dealt with children coping with mortality, loss, grief, anger, jealousy, greed, and anxiety.” He wrote a book titled See Yourself, Be Yourself, which, the website quotes his friend Susan Wolf of Roslyn, New York, was “illustrated with a group of cartoon kids to be used as a counseling tool.” That would be Al. He was the kind of guy who made use of every skill he had. A real hustler in the best sense of the word, and as likable a guy as you’d ever want to know. As Mark Evanier related on his website www.newsfromme.com, the Internet obituary unfortunately gets his comic book credits mostly wrong. Most of what Al did for Marvel was lettering, and you’ll find that credit for him in numerous titles in the late 1960s and early’70s, but no artwork. However, starting in 1967, he did write several Marvel Western comics stories; the Who’s Who lists “Two-Gun Kid” and “Kid Colt”, a bit of latter-day Millie the Model, and six issues of Sgt. Fury and His Howling Commandos (the source of the ‘Fighting Commandos’ part of the above obituary). He lettered at least one “Iron Man” story, but I couldn’t find any evidence that he ever scripted any Marvel super-heroes. For a time, beginning in 1969, he wrote such features as “Little Audrey,” “Casper,” “Spooky,” “Lotta,” “Little Dot,” and “Richie Rich” for Harvey Comics, and apparently penciled at least one “Little Audrey” story, which is apparently what the online obituary meant by saying he was once the “voice” of the Harvey characters. (His

This photo of Al Kurzrok, taken May 5, 2005, in his native Sarasota, Florida, is courtesy of Jackie Wolf-Enrione. His words live on, in the pages of half a dozen issues of Sgt. Fury and His Howling Commandos and other comics, as well as his more academic works. Above is the splash page from his final Sgt. Fury story, issue, #92 (Oct. 1971). Inks by Syd Shores; pencils by ÒThe Unprecedented Unknown.Ó WeÕveno idea why the penciler preferred to use such an odd pseudonym, though it sure looks like Herb TrimpeÕswork to Ye Editor! [©2005 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

cousin, Jackie Wolf-Enrione, with whom Mark Evanier put me in touch, confirms that he did not record voices for any Harvey-related animated cartoons or the like.) The interesting thing is that, though Al evidently didn’t record voices for Casper and company, he probably could have. I remember him as one of the best storytellers, and one of the funniest men, I ever knew. I inevitably found myself laughing at his non-stop jokes and ribald stories, mostly because of the way he told them. I recall doubling up with laughter one warm day in the Central Park Zoo when he and I were standing (on our lunch hour) in front of a sad-looking gorilla sprawling in his cage—and Al suddenly thrust his hand forward as if holding a microphone and began to “interview” the listless ape as if he were prizefighter Sonny Liston. This was probably soon after Liston’s defeat at the gloved hands of Cassius Clay/Mohammed Ali. Jackie Wolf-Enrione told me that Al died of complications from a breathing disorder that doctors were never quite able to get a handle on. He passed away in his sleep. I’m glad to know that Al enjoyed his years in comic books as much as many of us enjoyed him, and that he brought something of that interest to his later-chosen field of psychology. I’m only sorry that, after I learned he was living in Florida, I didn’t get on the phone right away and call him. I’m betting he still could’ve cracked me up.

In Memoriam

Paul(1910-2005) Cassidy ÒIThink He Felt A Sense Of WonderÓ by Roy Thomas aul H. Cassidy, who was probably the first person ever to draw “Superman” after his artistic co-creator Joe Shuster, passed away on May 15, at age 94, at a senior facility in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. His wife, Inez Jay Taylor Cassidy, had died in 1996.

A graduate of the University of Wisconsin with a Master’s degree in Fine Arts, he was a graphic art teacher in Milwaukee in 1938 when, through a college contact, he was offered a long-distance job helping Joe Shuster and writer/co-creator Jerry Siegel turn out artwork to meet the growing demand for more pages of “Superman” (on top of other DC series such as “Slam Bradley,” “Spy,” et al.)—and was soon drawing the Superman daily newspaper strip which debuted in early 1939. According to James Vance in his introduction “A Job for Superman” in the 1998 DC/Kitchen Sink volume Superman: The Dailies – Strips 1966, 1939-1942, Cassidy was offered $64 a week to move to Cleveland and take a job, “an offer you couldn’t refuse in 1939.” According to Vance, artist Wayne Boring of Norfolk, Virginia, “answered that [same] 1938 ad” as Cassidy had—which conflicts somewhat with the story of “college contacts” above—and “had arrived in Cleveland a couple of weeks before Cassidy.” However, Vance says, by the time he left Wisconsin for Ohio, Cassidy had already produced 149 daily installments of the Superman strip. According to an obituary in the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, he is credited by “numerous websites” with “putting the ‘S’ on Superman’s cape,” and with attaching the hero’s cape to his shoulders instead of its being tied around his neck. “And,” the piece goes on, “he began drawing the world’s most famous fictional hero in a more fluid, dynamic way.” As quoted in the Vance article, Cassidy said in a later interview: “I did all kinds of stuff, from penciling to lettering to inking everything but the faces. Shuster’s vision was pretty bad [by] then, but he still inked all the faces.” According to the Milwaukee obituary, and a different one in the Los Angeles Times, Cassidy was unaware he had become “part of the legend and lore of Superman” until about three years ago, when his granddaughter was visiting with her father, Paul’s son Dick Cassidy. Katy Cassidy looked up his name on the Internet, and came up with “zillions”

of references to “Paul Cassidy.” “He was enthralled,” says his other son, Larry. “I think he felt a sense of wonder and a quiet satisfaction. I think he was genuinely touched by this.” Paul Cassidy, born in Cherry Valley, Illinois, came to Madison, Wisconsin, to attend college, where he was apparently both a track star and a cartoonist for the college newspaper. After joining the new Shuster studio in Cleveland, he worked there from 1938 to 1940, before he resumed his teaching in order to earn more money for his new family. Vance says Cassidy continued to work for Siegel and Shuster through the mail until early 1942. In 1944 he found work as an artist (and later art director) for the World Book Encyclopedia, serving as art director and later managing director for its ChildCraft books, and still later for the Book of Knowledge in New York City. Unhappy living in an Eastern metropolis, he returned to Wisconsin in 1964, according to his son Larry, and taught again at the Milwaukee Vocational School. According to Vance, along the way Cassidy had also written [sic] a six-week continuity for Fred Harmon’s popular Red Ryder comic strip and “a one-shot comic book feature called ‘Hemisphere Patrol.’” Otherwise, however, the Shuster shop years made up his entire career in comics: “a total output of 173 daily Superman strips and eight Sunday pages, plus 630 [comic book] pages and seven covers—by [Cassidy’s] estimate, ‘about 8800 pictures or panels’ in all.” His sons say that, about a decade after he left the Shuster shop, Cassidy developed a comic strip idea of his own that he never sold, titled “Fantasy, the Moon Boy.” Dick Cassidy says it was a “precursor to E.T., the Extra-Terrestrial. There was this creature, and the youngest of the two sons could see him and talk to him.” The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel piece quotes Dick Cassidy about his father: “He knew how the Superman character had developed, and that some of what he brought to the party remained…. It was fun to see what happened thereafter. It was almost like his child had grown up.” [Thanks to Mark Evanier and Jerry Ordway for sending some materials used in the preparation of this brief tribute.]

ÒDonÕtPull On SupermanÕsCape!Ó (Top:) Paul Cassidy in a photo taken late in lifeÑand (above) the Superman strip Ò74Ó from 1939, which displays the ÒSÓ-emblazoned cape and its shoulderfastenings which Cassidy is said to have evolved for the Man of Tomorrow. [Superman art ©2005 DC Comics.]

“R IVE R S OF TIM E”

by Roy Thomas

The Screenplays That Time Forgot! Read The Movies That Hollywood Never Made–But Maybe Should Have!

based on “A Gun for Dinosaur” and other stories by L. Sprague de Camp

Also available: Doc Dynamo by Gerry Conway & Roy Thomas—and more fun but never-produced screenplays by Marv Wolfman, Mike Baron, Jean-Marc & Randy Lofficier, Steve Englehart, & others! $15.95 apiece at www.blackcoatpress.com

THE “BACK ISSUE OF THE ISSUE” IS, ER, BACK! For more on ROY THOMAS’ kaleidoscopic comics career, get Alter Ego #9—which spotlights “dr eam projects” RT pitched to Marvel & DC, including Captain Marvel/Shazam!, alternateWWII versions of All-Star Squadron and Invaders, the story behind the cover of All-Star Comics #3—and a Fabulous-1950s series of the Justice Society! Rar e art by DICK GIORDANO, ADAM HUGHES, MARK BEACHUM, HERB TRIMPE, DON NEWTON, JERR Y ORDW AY, & many others! (Oh, yeah—and JOHNNY there’s an incr edible in-depth interview with Jazzy ROMITA on the flip side!) See A/E back-issue ad on pp. 44-45.

83 gesture ... they illustrate what is being said and emphasize the important points. Mention of hands brings to mind the words of Zack Mosley, creator of the aviation strip Smilin’ Jack. “I start with a 5-sided triangle,” he said. ”Then I add a thumb to one of the sides, and four fingers to another.” A 5-sided triangle? Zack knew better than that. It was just his manner of touching up any topic with a little humor. He enjoyed laughter. And I don’t think he would have argued with the claim that hands talk.

[FCA EDITORS NOTE: From 1941-53, Marcus D. Swayze was a top artist for Fawcett Publications. The very first Mary Marvel character sketches came from Marc’s drawing table, and he illustrated her earliest adventures, including the classic origin story, “Captain Marvel Introduces Mary Marvel (Captain Marvel Adventures #18, Dec. ’42); but he was primarily hired by Fawcett Publications to illustrate Captain Marvel stories and covers for Whiz Comics and Captain Marvel Adventures. He also wrote many Captain Marvel scripts, and continued to do so while in the military. After leaving the service in 1944, he made an arrangement with Fawcett to produce art and stories for them on a freelance basis out of his Louisiana home. There he created both art and story for The Phantom Eagle in Wow Comics, in addition to drawing the Flyin’ Jenny newspaper strip for Bell Syndicate (created by his friend and mentor Russell Keaton). After the cancellation of Wow, Swayze produced artwork for Fawcett’s top-selling line of romance comics, including Sweethearts and Life Story. After the company ceased publishing comics, Marc moved over to Charlton Publications, where he ended his comics career in the mid-’50s. Marc’s ongoing professional memoirs have been FCA’s most popular feature since his first column appeared in FCA #54, 1996. Last issue Marc told of a time when Captain Marvel rescued him out of a jam. This issue he discusses the importance of drawing people and of having “hands talk” in comics. —P.C. Hamerlinck.]

In reviewing the years spent in comics, it was surprising to be reminded that, among the characters I had drawn, some showed a suggestion of that “more human” quality. Back in ’39 or ’40 I drew a fellow named “Dedbeet” and a gang of toughs who spent their time chasing my title character, Judi, through the jungle. The drawing was pretty crude and those guys were mean and ugly ... but they were “people”! So were “Scoop” and “Timber,” marooned on an island with Flyin’ Jenny. I wanted all my characters to be like that ... but they weren’t. Many were no more than lifeless mannequins. Over the years I’m sure I drew my share of uninteresting zombies. It was puzzling. It’s bound to have been a matter of concentration. Sometimes the need of it. In order to draw people there was a need to think people ...

If you were an artist during the Golden Age of Comics, you drew people ... or “things,” in imitation of people. Because people, we were told, wanted to read about people ... what they did ... how they behaved ... how they felt. There may have been exceptions, but only one comes to mind ... Ruby Zuboff, who provided the excellent backgrounds behind Mac Raboy’s Captain Marvel Jr. All things considered, though, an art career in comics meant drawing people. It was likely one of the first conclusions arrived at upon entering the profession ... “It’s all about people. Learn to draw ’em!” “People,” the word ... appears so much more relevant when it comes to drawing them for the comics ... than does “characters” ... or, like in art classes, “figures.” Sounds more ... human. And more human is what we’re after here. “People” ... with feelings ... emotions. The very thought made you take a closer look at the subject ... to realize there’s more to drawing people than just the “how to.” Consider the human hand, for example. We knew how to draw the hand ... or thought we did. Any drawing book you picked up had a section on it ... the structure, you know ... fingers, bones and such. But there was more to it than that. Hands talk! They

ÒWeDidnÕtKnow... It Was The Golden Age!Ó

People Who Draw PeopleÉAre The Luckiest People In The World (Left:) ÒÕDedbeetand pals,Ó Marc feels, Òwere tough and mean, but they were not lifeless mannequins. They were people!Ó From an unprinted newspaper feature the artist prepared while an assistant to Russell Keaton on Flyin’ Jenny in 1940. [©2005 Marc Swayze.]

as you planned them ... penciled them ... inked them. It was unreasonable to expect it to be accomplished with the mind centered on a forthcoming lunchtime bowling match ... or the date with the pretty editorial assistant upstairs. [Marc Swayze will be back next issue with more memories of the Golden Age of Comics.]

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“…And Then There Were None!” —The Corrections The Sequel To ÒCharltonAnd The Remnants Of The Fawcett Comics EmpireÓ by Frank “Capitol” Motler OTE: In Alter Ego #39, 40, 42, & 43, British fan Frank Motler presented a detailed study of how, in the early to mid1950s and later, Charlton Publications, often known as CDC for its Capitol Distribution arm, took over both the titles and often inventory of several comics companies which were leaving the comic book business. Chief among these was Fawcett, which folded its four-color tents in late 1953. Inevitably in a work of this scope, errors would sneak in, and additional information would become available from people who saw the article and had knowledge of particular areas or details. Below, Frank has listed, under the heading of each of the four issues of A/E in which his piece was serialized, the corrections and additions known to date of his study. A number of these were sent by Boyd Magers, while others are based on Frank’s own researches during the past year. It is hoped that anyone else having additional information will contact Frank directly or through Alter Ego. —Roy.

A/E #39: P. 49: The last sentence of the bottom caption should read: “Cover art for Romantic Story #25 (Aug. 1954) is by Leon Winik & Ray Osrin.” The artist of Romantic Secrets #17 (Aug. 1958) remains unknown to me, but long-time collector Steven Whitaker thinks it is Dick Giordano.

The Case Of The Clueless Comics It didnÕttake Scotland Yard or Sherlock HolmesÑboth of which starred in their own Charlton series in 1955-56, as witness these first-issue coversÑto correct the handful of errors and omissions in our four-part ÒFawcett-Charlton ConnectionÓ series. All it required was a bit of sleuthing by Frank Motler himself, and by Western film expert Boyd Magers. [© 2005 the respective copyright owners.]

Charlton Was A Real Sweetheart Since we showed the other Charlton romance covers covered in this mini-article in earlier issues, hereÕs another scan Frank sent us at the time: the cover of Sweethearts #46 (Dec. 1958), which was a continuation of the popular Fawcett romance comic for which Marc Swayze drew numerous stories. This cover spotlighted popular 1950s singer Jimmie Rodgers, whose hits ÒHoneycombÓ and ÒKisses Sweeter Than WineÓ led to his longrunning ÒSpaghetti-OsÓ ad on TV and his own TV series. [©2005 the respective copyright holders.]

A/E #40: P. 46: TNT Comics (Feb. 1946) was published by “Carlton Publishing Co.,” not “Charlton Publishing Company.” P. 47: Burton N. Levey is the name given as that of the co-owner; it was not misspelled, as the accompanying “[sic]” notation implied. A/E #42 P. 49: There is an error in the text and accompanying caption. Charlton published Maco Toys (1959) on behalf of the toy company; it had nothing to do with Blue Bird, a shoe-store chain, or with the comics published by Charlton on their behalf. On Dec 16, 2004, Boyd Magers was kind enough to write to Alter Ego and confirm certain facts, whilst pointing out some errors in this third installment of my article. Boyd is an acknowledged authority on Western films & their stars. He has also written several books on Western movies, consulted on many others, and hosted film celebrity panels, and is the publisher of Western Clippings magazine for more than ten years. I am happy to correct these errors here. P. 52: “Tim Holt” did not appear in Six-Gun Heroes, or any other Charlton comic. He was a Magazine Enterprise star (later, as Red Mask) and more recently has appeared in Bill Black’s AC Comics title Best of the West. This was my error, confusing “Monte Hale” (who did appear

The Sequel To ÒCharltonAnd The Remnants Of The Fawcett Comic EmpireÓ

Monte, YouÕreGetting A Bit Rusty! Boyd Magers sent scans of these two pages of ÒRusty HallÓ from CharltonÕsCowboy Western #61 (Oct. 1954). This was really just a Fawcett ÒMonte HaleÓ story with a new name for the title hero, but with no art changes. Monte Hale was the star of numerous Republic Western movies shown at Saturday movie matinees during the late 1940s and early 1950s, and Boyd informs us that Monte is the last cowpoke from that colorful crew that rode the plains in those twilight years of Western movie series whoÕsstill around. Boyd publishes the long-running magazine Western Clippings, a recent issue of which, seen at right, sported a photo of Monte Hale on its cover. Subscription to this 28-page photo-&-features mag are $28 for six bimonthly issues, sent to: Western Clippings, 1312 Stagecoach Rd. SE, Albuquerque, NM 87123. Phone (505) 292-0049. E-mail: vidwest@comcast.net. [Art © 2005 the respective copyright holders; Western Clippings page ©2005 Boyd Magers.]

in Six-Gun Heroes) with “Tim Holt.” “Kit Carson” (a TV adaptation) appeared in Six-Gun Heroes #44-45 (not #43-44; the index in A/E #43 is correct, however). The last “Lash LaRue” in Six-Gun Heroes, was in #59 (not #62). Nor did “Lash LaRue” ever appear in Cowboy Western. Boyd has also stated that “Monte Hale” was changed to “Rusty Hall” in Cowboy Western #61 (Oct. 1954).

A/E #43: The Index Corresponding to Boyd Magers’ corrections, above: P. 50, note 5: “Tim Holt” did not appear in Six-Gun Heroes (or any other Charlton comic). P. 50, note 5: The last “Lash LaRue” is Six-Gun Heroes #59.

A Veritable Flood Of Stories The following are new findings, gathered in the past few months. Davy Crockett #5 (Charlton, March 1956), in addition to a beautiful lead story drawn by Maurice Whitman, contains the curious 4-page story “Apache!” The title is in the middle of the splash and looks as if it has been superimposed, suggesting an earlier designation. Issue #6 (June 1956), features the former Fawcett Native American hero “Young Eagle” (6 pages), most likely from Fawcett inventory. Frontier Scout Dan’l Boone #10 & 11, the first two issues from early 1956, have “Death Valley” featurettes—a former Comic Media title, which Charlton inherited. Other titles, like the wonderful if non-PC Hillbilly Comics, illustrated throughout by Art Gates, may also have been acquired. Gates never drew anything else for Charlton but worked extensively for William Friedman’s Story and latter-day Premier groups, which Charlton is suspected of printing. Certainly Charlton distributed the last two issues of Story’s Fight against the Guilty (#22-23, 1955). Many

Charltons from the period late 1953 through early 1957 carry unusual stories and one-page fillers. Their original genesis may never be fully explained. Whilst the disastrous Derby, Connecticut, flood of August 1955 is thought to have destroyed all acquired inventory art, some at least must remained been available, until later.

Never Say “Never Again”! There is also the curious case of Never Again, a two-issue anti-war series. As befitting Charlton’s numbering policy, the second is #8, some eleven months after the first. The contents of #1 (Aug. 1955) are as follows: “This Is the Unknown Soldier!” (Andru/Esposito?) 2 pp., with an A-bomb panel squeezed in for good measure; “The Beginning of the End” (unknown w/Heck inks) 5 pp.; “Battle of the Box!” Whitman (?), 7 pp., “Fire Mission” text, Heck illustration, 2 pp.; “No More Noise from SNAFU,” Fawcett inventory, 8 pp. (reprint?). Never Again #8 (actually the second issue) (July 1956), definitely features an Andru/Esposito cover, with two attractive lead stories. Contents are: “Career Man,” drawn by Bob Forgione (?), 7 pp; “Two Men in the Sky,” Forgione (?), 8 pp.; “The Sniper,” text by “Sgt. C.F.X. Houts, Marine Corps Correspondent,” 2 pp.; “Monty Hall of the U.S. Marines in ‘Call of Courage,’” Mel Keefer, 10 pp., Toby inventory (reprint?).

The Much-Travelled Ross Andru & Mike Esposito It is possible that Never Again was picked up from the defunct MikeRoss outfit. [NOTE: See next issue’s interview with Mike Esposito! —Roy] The last story of the premier issue has the distinct look of Fawcett inventory. The Don Heck inking and illustrated text story suggest Comic Media (1952-54), where he was the cover artist and leading light. As noted before, several Comic Media titles were picked up from the ailing company by Charlton. The text-story writer for the second issue, one Charles F.X. Houts, who signed as a former U.S. Marine Corps correspondent, wrote text stories in Comic Media’s War Fury #1, Horrific #5 (from 1953), plus several Toby war comics. Artist

Ò...AndThen There Were None!Ó--TheCorrections

87 particularly the opening splash of “Operation: Redwing.” The art is consistent, except for the twopage “Billy Bos’n in ‘Seein’ Red,” but doesn’t look like any of the regular Charlton artists of the period. The cover feature “Lt. Danny Mitchell, USN” was also short-lived. Yet more Charlton puzzles to solve.

Maurice Whitman was a regular at Charlton during this period and did the wonderful Jerry Drummer title, plus several classic covers, including the Nyoka/Zoo Funnies series.

No other Charlton artwork has been recorded by the muchtravelled duo of Andru and Esposito. They had earlier concluded an attempt to selfSome Final Additions publish, with the short-lived The cover to Charlton’s MikeRoss Publications (1954). Rookie Cop #33, the last issue Mike Esposito blamed the demise (Aug. 1957), reuses in part the of the latter on the disastrous sales Fawcett cover from Down with of their 3-D Love and 3-D Crime #6 (Sept. 1952). Romance comics: “A bigger death ItÕsNot A Crime To Recycle! you never saw.” Even the huge There are “Dr. Neff” stories, success of Get Lost, a wellThe cover of Charlton/CDCÕsRookie Cop #33 (Aug. 1957), the final issue, originally a Street & Smith produced Mad imitator, couldn’t reuses an image which Frank Motler thinks redrawn, or at least reinked, character from Ghost Breakers from the cover of FawcettÕsDown with Crime #6 (Sept. 1952). save them from bankruptcy. They #1-2 (Sept. & Dec. 1948) and the [©2005 the respective copyright holders.] had previously instigated “Mr. earlier Red Dragon, Vol. 1, #7 Publications” (1950-51), with (July 1943), in Racket Squad in Action #5 and #6 (Jan-Feb. & April indifferent results. This initial company evolved into Gilmor, Stanmor, 1953). S.P.M. Publications, and others, co-owned by Stanley P. Morse. One of Mr. Publications’ comic book offerings was Mister Universe, whose In closing: I recently received (via eBay) a copy of Hot Rods and second issue (dated 1951) featured a 24-page, book-length extravaganza, Racing Cars #14 (Feb. 1954), which contains a “Clint Curtis” Fawcett “Jungle That Time Forgot!” It was illustrated by the duo and written by inventory story, “Never Too Old,” 11 pp. and definitely drawn by Bob Harry Kantor. The latter would remain at Morse as editor. Some 19 Powell. I can’t say whether this story is a reprint from a Fawcett comic, years later, the concept was reprised for the cult series “The War That or was from Fawcett inventory sold to Charlton. I’ve been looking for Time forgot,” which commenced in this issue for over three years—so, for Star Spangled War Stories #90 (April me, the Fawcett/Charlton Connection 1960) and ran until issue #137. Artwork has a happy ending! and covers for the majority of these were supplied by Ross and Mike. Acknowledgements & Interestingly, “The Unknown Soldier,” Further References the lead strip from Never Again #1 A definitive tip of the hat to would also become a DC feature, after Michael Feldman, who has been a its debut in SSWS #151 (July 1970). constant source of information and (Ref. “A bigger death you never saw.”) help about all aspects of US popular publishing. This includes Charlton and The Fightin’ Charltons its inherited titles, plus the complicated Early issues of Charlton’s Fightin’ distribution system that existed in the Air Force, Fightin’ Army, Fightin’ 1940s and 1950s America. Regular Marines (inherited from St. John), and readers may want to check his brief Fightin’ Navy may also yield inventory but informative piece on the American stories. Fightin’ Army #16 (actually #1) News Company in Alter Ego #49. and #17 (both 1956) have stories from Thanks also to Michael Ambrose for Toby and Comic Media, and #19 his excellent magazine Charlton (Feb.1957) has “True Hero,” of Spotlight #1-4 (2000-2005), which I uncertain provenance, drawn by Henry constantly dip into whilst crossC. Kiefer. The first three issues of checking facts. Issue #4 is now out and Charlton’s Fightin’ Marines #14 highly recommended to all fans of Pete (actually #1) through #16, 1955, Morisi’s artistic output. The epic reprised Matt Baker’s covers and stories Comic Book Artist #9 (2000), available from the original St. John series. through TwoMorrows, also repays Fightin’ Air Force #5-6 feature two periodical re-reading for its inforstories by an unknown artist who mation about early Charlton activities. worked for Stanley Morse on many of For more on Andru and/or Esposito, his later war titles. His style is spare and check out the websites www.adelaideminimal, but influenced by Harvey comicsandbooks.com/ Kurtzman’s EC war comics; it soon druespo.htm and www.mightmiWhere Eagles Dare fascinates. The Jan. 1956-dated premiere keesponet/bio/getlost.asp—as Splash page from CharltonÕsDavy Crockett #6 (June 1956), featuring the of Fightin’ Navy (Vol. 12, #74, of well as the upcoming Alter Native American hero ÒYoung EagleÓ whoÕdhad his own comic mag for course!), is also influenced by EC, Ego #53-54! two Fawcett issues in 1952. [©2005 the respective copyright holders.]

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CAPITAO MARVEL MEETS LA TOCHA HUMANA When Titans ClashedÑIn Brazil Introduction by John G. Pierce y discovery of Brazilian comics, in the early 1980s, remains one of the highlights of my fannish life. And among the most astounding of the Brazilian lore would have to be the continued existence, through 1968, of Captain Marvel and his Family, with the first installment of a tale reprinted here of particular note.

Inter-company crossovers were still relatively new at the time I discovered this story. The first Superman Vs. Spider-Man book had appeared only a few years earlier. They’ve become somewhat “old hat” by now (yet one more example of how the comics field often manages to deliver too much of a good thing), but back then, they were still a novelty. So to discover that a crossover had been published in 1964 was even more amazing—and that it had featured two characters who by 1964 had been defunct for quite a few years was even more so. It is important to remember, however, that for Brazilian readers at the time, it was not an inter-company crossover at all. Rather, both characters, along with many other features, were appearing in comics from the same publisher. The idea of the team-up was probably a novelty—and as far as I know, there were no others in any way comparable to it—but it was not, for them, an inter-company teaming. (The exception, naturally, would be those Brazilian readers who were knowledgeable about US comics.)

early classic battles with the Sub-Mariner. As for Captain Marvel, there’s no comparison. Cap’s stories were so clever, so out of the ordinary for superheroes, that there’s no way that this particular tale can come close. Remove the Human Torch and the notion of a crossover, and it seems rather routine. But it is, I think, a fairly entertaining story, and of course, for us, the novelty more than compensates for any defects the script and art might have. Thanks are due to many people. First of all, Dwight Decker, who first put me in touch with Brazilian collector Jose Jefferson Barbosa de Aquino, and who, incidentally, also urged me to write about my discoveries for fanzines, starting with Amazing Heroes. Brazilian correspondents, including the late “Jeff” (as he preferred to be called), along with Luiz Antonio Sampaio, Jose Carlos Neves, and Emir Ribeiro, among others, have proven invaluable, not to mention exceedingly generous, in supplying me with Brazilian comics. A/E editor Roy Thomas and FCA editor P.C. Hamerlinck are to be commended for their interest in the subject matter. Finally, a big thanks to the translator, Mark Luebker, whose knowledge of Portuguese easily surpasses my own, and whose translation is presented here.

The cover of the 100-page comic which showcased the Captain Marvel/Human Torch team-up. Among other features, it also reprinted what seems to be a Fawcett ÒLash LaRueÓ story, and a tale starring ÒAguia Negra,Ó who appears to be the circa-1960 Australian super-hero ÒSir Falcon,Ó who was covered last issue. [©2005 the respective copyright holders; Captain Marvel TM & ©2005 DC Comics; Lash LaRue, Sir Falcon, Robin Hood, Billy the Kid, & Wyatt Earp TM & ©2005 the respective copyright holders.]

But, though I’ve written about that hitherto-unknown team-up of Fawcett’s original Captain Marvel and Timely’s original Human Torch before (including back in FCA #60/Alter Ego V3#1, 1999), English-speaking fans haven’t had the chance to actually read it. Now, at long last, two of its pages are being presented—translated into English—in the pages of Alter Ego/FCA. We hope to show you more such pages in the near future. Is the story up to the standards of the two features from which it is drawn? Hard to say. I’ve read no more than a handful of stories of the original Human Torch, and based on that, I’d say that the story probably equals or surpasses many of them, except, of course, for his

All of us involved hope you enjoy this first presentation of a comic book first. Credits for “Return of a Great Hero”: Appeared in: Almanaque do O Globo Juvenil Published in Brazil - 1964 Illustrated by Rodriguez Zelis

REPRINT CREDITS: Translation, Lettering, 1950s Fawcett Title Page Adaptation: Mark Luebker Art Restoration and Gray Tones: Matt Moring Additional Art Restoration (page 11 & up): John Gentil Special Thanks: John G. Pierce, Rodrigo M. Zeidan, Matt Gore

90 When Titans Clashed––In Brazil

~ Capitao Marvel Meets La Tocha Humana

[See more pages of this offbeat Brazilian classic in future issues of A/E & FCA.]