Alter Ego #59 by TwoMorrows Publishing

Roy ailous Roy T Thomas homas ’’ Batt X-Traordinary Comics Comics F Fanzine anzine

DARK NIGHTS & STEEL IN THE GOLDEN & SILVER AGES

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June 2006

SUYDAM • ADAMS • MOLDOFF SIEGEL • PLASTINO MANNING • MATERA PLUS:

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Edited by ROY THOMAS The first and greatest “hero-zine”—ALL-NEW, focusing on GOLDEN AND SILVER AGE comics and creators with ARTICLES, INTERVIEWS, UNSEEN ART, P.C. Hamerlinck’s FCA [Fawcett Collectors of America], MICHAEL T. GILBERT in Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt, BILL SCHELLY’S Comic Fandom Archive, and more!

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ALTER EGO #137

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ALTER EGO #134

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ALTER EGO #136

Celebrates SOL BRODSKY—Fantastic Four #3-4 inker, logo designer, and early Marvel production manager! With tributes by daughter and Marvel colorist JANNA PARKER, STAN LEE, HERB TRIMPE, STAN GOLDBERG, DAVID ANTHONY KRAFT, TONY ISABELLA, ROY THOMAS, and others! Plus FCA, MICHAEL T. GILBERT, BILL SCHELLY, and more! Cover portrait by JOHN ROMITA!

LEN WEIN (writer/co-creator of Swamp Thing, Human Target, and Wolverine) talks about his early days in comics at DC and Marvel! Art by WRIGHTSON, INFANTINO, TRIMPE, DILLON, CARDY, APARO, THORNE, MOONEY, and others! Plus FCA (Fawcett Collectors of America), MR. MONSTER’s Comic Crypt, the Comics Code, and DAN BARRY! Cover by DICK GIORDANO with BERNIE WRIGHTSON!

BONUS 100-PAGE issue as ROY THOMAS talks to JIM AMASH about celebrating his 50th year in comics—and especially about the ‘90s at Marvel! Art by TRIMPE, GUICE, RYAN, ROSS, BUCKLER, HOOVER, KAYANAN, BUSCEMA, CHAN, VALENTINO, and others! Plus FCA, MR. MONSTER’s Comic Crypt, AMY KISTE NYBERG on the Comics Code, and a cover caricature of Roy by MARIE SEVERIN!

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ALTER EGO #139

ALTER EGO #140

ALTER EGO #141

Incredible interview with JIM SHOOTER, which chronicles the first decade of his career (Legion of Super-Heroes, Superman, Supergirl, Captain Action) with art by CURT SWAN, WALLY WOOD, GIL KANE, GEORGE PAPP, JIM MOONEY, PETE COSTANZA, WIN MORTIMER, WAYNE BORING, AL PLASTINO, et al.! Plus FCA, MR. MONSTER, BILL SCHELLY, and more! Cover art by CURT SWAN!

Science-fiction great (and erstwhile comics writer) HARLAN ELLISON talks about Captain Marvel and The Monster Society of Evil! Also, Captain Marvel artist/ co-creator C.C. BECK writes about the infamous Superman-Captain Marvel lawsuit of the 1940s and ‘50s in a double-size FCA section! Plus two titanic tributes to Golden Age artist FRED KIDA, MR. MONSTER, BILL SCHELLY, and more!

JIM AMASH interviews ROY THOMAS about his 1990s work on Conan, the stillborn Marvel/Excelsior line launched by STAN LEE, writing for Cross Plains, Topps, DC, and others! Art by KAYANAN, BUSCEMA, MAROTO, GIORDANO, ST. AUBIN, DITKO, SIMONSON, MIGNOLA, LARK, KIRBY, CORBEN, SALE, SCHULTZ, LIGHTLE, McKEEVER, BENDIS, and more! Cover by RAFAEL KAYANAN!

Golden Age great IRWIN HASEN spotlight, adapted from DAN MAKARA’s film documentary on Hasen, the 1940s artist of the Justice Society, Green Lantern, Wonder Woman, Wildcat, Cat-Man, and numerous other classic heroes—and, for 30 years, the artist of the famous DONDI newspaper strip! Bonus art by his buddies JOE KUBERT, ALEX TOTH, CARMINE INFANTINO, and SHELLY MAYER!

From Detroit to Deathlok, we cover the career of artist RICH BUCKLER: Fantastic Four, The Avengers, Black Panther, Ka-Zar, Dracula, Morbius, a zillion Marvel covers— Batman, Hawkman, and other DC stars— Creepy and Eerie horror—and that’s just in the first half of the 1970s! Plus Mr. Monster, BILL SCHELLY, FCA, and comics expert HAMES WARE on fabulous Golden Age artist RAFAEL ASTARITA!

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ALTER EGO #142

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DAVID SIEGEL talks to RICHARD ARNDT about how, from 1991-2005, he brought the greatest artists of the Golden Age to the San Diego Comic-Con! With art and artifacts by FRADON, GIELLA, MOLDOFF, LAMPERT, CUIDERA, FLESSEL, NORRIS, SULLIVAN, NOVICK, SCHAFFENBERGER, GROTHKOPF, and others! Plus how writer JOHN BROOME got to the Con, Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt, FCA, and more!

DON GLUT discusses his early years as comic book writer for Marvel, Warren, and Gold Key, with art by SANTOS, MAROTO, CHAN, NEBRES, KUPPERBERG, TUSKA, TRIMPE, SAL BUSCEMA, and others! Also, SAL AMENDOLA and ROY THOMAS on the 1970s professional Academy of Comic Book Arts, founded by STAN LEE and CARMINE INFANTINO! Plus Mr. Monster, FCA, BILL SCHELLY, and more!

MARK CARLSON documents 1940s-50s ACE COMICS (with super-heroes Magno & Davey, Lash Lightning, The Raven, Unknown Soldier, Captain Courageous, Vulcan, and others)! Art by KURTZMAN, MOONEY, BERG, L.B. COLE, PALAIS, and more. Plus: RICHARD ARNDT’s interview with BILL HARRIS (1960s-70s editor of Gold Key and King Comics), FCA, Comic Crypt, and Comic Fandom Archive.

40 years after the debut of Marvel’s STAR WARS #1, its writer/editor ROY THOMAS tells RICHARD ARNDT the story behind that landmark comic, plus interviews with artists HOWARD CHAYKIN, RICK HOBERG, and BILL WRAY. Also: MR. MONSTER looks at “Jazz in Comics” with MICHAEL T. GILBERT—the finale of BILL SCHELLY’s salute to G.B. LOVE—FCA— and more! CHAYKIN cover.

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Vol. 3, No. 59 / June 2006

™

Editor Roy Thomas

Associate Editors Bill Schelly Jim Amash

Design & Layout Christopher Day

Consulting Editor John Morrow

FCA Editor P.C. Hamerlinck

Comic Crypt Editor Michael T. Gilbert

Editors Emeritus Jerry Bails (founder) Ronn Foss, Biljo White, Mike Friedrich

Production Assistant

Contents Writer/Editorial: Dark Nights & Steel . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 Arthur Suydam: “Heroes Are What We Aspire To Be” . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3

Eric Nolen-Weathington

Interview with the artist of Cholly and Flytrap and Marvel Zombies covers, by Renee Witterstaetter.

Cover Painting

“Maybe I Was Just Loyal” . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14

Arthur Suydam

And Special Thanks to: Richard Martines Neal Adams Fran Matera Heidi Amash Sheldon Moldoff Michael Ambrose Frank Motler Bill Bailey Brian K. Morris Tim Barnes Karl Nelson Dennis Beaulieu Jerry Ordway Alberto Becattini Jake Oster John Benson Joe Petrilak Dominic Bongo Rubén Procopio Jerry K. Boyd Ken Quattro Geoff Brenneman Gene Reed Bob Brodsky Ramon Schenk Bob Cherry Flo Steinberg Bob Cosgrove Bhob Stewart Ray A. Cuthbert Arthur Suydam Shel Dorf Marc Swayze Justin Fairfax Dann Thomas Michael Feldman Jim Vadeboncoeur, Jr. Rex Ferrell Dr. Michael J. Shane Foley Vassallo Ramona Fradon Hames Ware Janet Gilbert Henry Wessel Arnie Grieves Jennifer Hamerlinck Ted White Robert Wiener Jonathan Ingersoll Ike Wilson Jeff Jastras Renee Witterstaetter Jim Kealy David Anthony Kraft Eddy Zeno Richard Kyle

1950s/60s Batman artist Shelly Moldoff tells Shel Dorf about Bob Kane & other phenomena.

“My Attitude Was, They’re Not Bosses, They’re Editors” . . . . . . . . . . . 25 Golden/Silver Age Superman artist Al Plastino talks to Jim Kealy & Eddy Zeno about his long and illustrious career.

Jerry Siegel’s European Comics!. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 36 When Superman’s co-creator fought for truth, justice, and the European way—by Alberto Becattini.

“If You Can’t Improve Something 200%, Then Go With The Thing That You Have”. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 40 Modern legend Neal Adams on the late 1960s at DC Comics.

“It Only Took 40 Years... To Be The Steve Roper Artist!”. . . . . . . . . . . 48 Fran Matera tells Jim Amash about Quality—and not just the comics company.

Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt: Russ Manning –– Part 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 61 Michael T. Gilbert and Ray Cuthbert continue their look at the Tarzan/Magnus artist.

The Forgotten ’50s – Part II . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 67 Bill Schelly showcases the 1966 EC panel with Ted White, Bhob Stewart, & Archie Goodwin.

re: [correspondence, comments, & corrections] . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 72 FCA (Fawcett Collectors of America) #118 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 79 P.C. Hamerlinck presents artists Rubén Procopio & Marc Swayze, plus more!

About Our Cover: This panoramic Batman painting by Arthur Suydam was far too large to fit onto our cover; there’s a whole passel of bats and wolves you’ll have to look up the full illustration elsewhere to savor. But when Ye Editor saw just how gorgeous it was—and without that Johnnycome-lately yellow circle around the bat symbol on the hero’s chest, to boot!—he couldn’t resist asking if it (or most of it, anyway), was available. Arthur, as well as Renee Witterstaetter, said yes… and we wound up with one of A/E’s most splendid covers ever! [Batman TM & ©2006 DC Comics.] Above: A self-portrait of longtime DC and United Feature artist Al Plastino surrounded by several of the characters he’s drawn in newspaper comic strips over the years. Of course, he illustrated a “Superman” tale or three in the pages of comic books, as well! [Superman, Batman, & Robin TM & ©2006 DC Comics; Nancy & Ferd’nand TM & ©2006 United Feature Syndicate; portrait ©2006 Al Plastino.] Alter EgoTM is published monthly, except Jan., April., Sept., and Nov. by TwoMorrows, 10407 Bedfordtown Drive, Raleigh, NC 27614, USA. Phone: (919) 449-0344. Roy Thomas, Editor. John Morrow, Publisher. Alter Ego Editorial Offices: 32 Bluebird Trail, St. Matthews, SC 29135, USA. Fax: (803) 826-6501; e-mail: roydann@ntinet.com. Send subscription funds to TwoMorrows, NOT to the editorial offices. Single issues: $9 ($11.00 outside the US). Twelve-issue subscriptions:$72 US, $132 Canada, $144 elsewhere. All characters are © their respective companies. All material © their creators unless otherwise noted. All editorial matter © Roy Thomas. Alter Ego is a TM of Roy & Dann Thomas. FCA is a TM of P.C. Hamerlinck. Printed in Canada. FIRST PRINTING.

Title writer/editorial

Dark Nights & Steel A

few months back, while writing an intro for a collection of the astonishing art of Arthur Suydam, I perused scans that Eva Ink’s Renee Witterstaetter had sent me of his recent paintings. Naturally, I was knocked out by the illustrations—especially a “widescreen” image he’d done of Batman. I asked if, by any chance, it could be used as a cover for Alter Ego, and I was ecstatic when they said yes.

Arthur (Red) Suydam just makes it in under the wire as a figure of the Silver Age, by the broad definition I’ve always used for A/E— namely, the period from 1956’s Showcase #4 through the mid-1970s. I can understand why many folks count 1970 or thereabouts as the cutoff date, but since I left my position as Marvel’s editor-in-chief in late 1974, with mags under my aegis coming out through much of ’75, I’ve always stretched those parameters a bit, at least for the purposes of this magazine. And Arthur’s first published comic book story was done for DC editor Joe Orlando and House of Secrets in 1974. (He and Renee go beyond that point in their freewheeling discussion, but that’s only to be expected—and in any event, much of what Arthur has to say deals with his early days and influences.) With Arthur’s lush, moody painting and interview as the hub, I decided to center an issue around Batman and Superman, even though the Man of Steel was headlined only three issues ago. For one thing, we needed to complete Jim Amash’s fascinating interview with Neal Adams on his late-1960s DC work, which began in #56. Also, Alberto Becattini had sent us an article on Siegel’s 1960s work on “The Spider,” a European adventure strip little known in this country. We also had on hand Eddy Zeno and Jim Kealy’s talk with Golden/Silver Age

“Superman” artist Al Plastino, which definitely deserved an airing herein… the more so since the artist also drew the Batman comic strip for some time. As for Batman: well, we had a 1994 Shel Dorf interview with longtime Bob Kane ghost Sheldon Moldoff which we’d been wanting to run for a long while… along with a number of his never-seen commissioned illos. All that, plus a welcome interview with fellow Golden Ager Fran Matera, not to mention the completion of Michael T. Gilbert’s coverage of Russ Manning and of Bill Schelly’s presentation of a 1966 EC panel, and of course FCA and a delayed letters section, pretty much filled this issue to the brim. So much so, in fact, that Dwight Decker’s announced article on “Superman vs. the Nazis” and a piece by Murray Bishoff on the 1975 “Superman” settlement had to be delayed till a near-future issue. Sometimes it’s ridiculously easy to figure out what to include in a given issue—and ludicrously difficult to squeeze it all in. This was one of those times. So what else is new? Bestest,

P.S.: And a big if belated Happy Birthday to George Tuska, who turned 90 on April 26! You're the greatest, George!

COMING IN JULY

FIFTY YEARS HAVE GONE BY IN A FLASH! Celebrating A Half Century Since SHOWCASE #4! • Never-before-published, full-color Flash cover by CARMINE INFANTINO! • Rare interviews with and articles on the greats who created Showcase #4 in 1956—the comic book that launched the Silver Age! JULIUS SCHWARTZ— ROBERT KANIGHER—CARMINE INFANTINO—JOE KUBERT—& JOHN BROOME! • Spectacular art from an unpublished 1948 Flash story, penciled by INFANTINO! • Golden Age (& Joe Palooka) artist TONY DiPRETA, interviewed by JIM AMASH! Rare work from Timely/Marvel 1950s horror comics, et al.! • 1966 Golden Age panel—the only comic-con appearance ever by Lady Luck artist KLAUS NORDLING! A BILL SCHELLY Comic Fandom Archive special! • MICHAEL T. GILBERT on “Twice-Told Tales” by—MICHAEL T. GILBERT! • FCA with MARC SWAYZE & ALEX ROSS—& MORE!! Edited by ROY THOMAS ics.] [Flash TM & ©2006 DC Com

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Arthur Suydam: “Heroes Are What We Aspire To Be” An Interview With The Artist of Cholly And Flytrap And Marvel Zombies Covers Conducted & Transcribed by Renee Witterstaetter

bout Arthur Suydam: Marvel Zombies cover artist Arthur Suydam burst onto the scene with his creative innovation of infusing the art of sequential art with classical painting. His extraordinary work helped revolutionize the industry and began the comic art renaissance of the 1980s, opening doors for mainstream writers and artists to create literature for a more mature readership.

Recently honored with the coveted Spectrum magazine Gold Award for Excellence in Illustration, Suydam’s immense body of written and illustrative work comprises an aesthetic that is uniquely distinguishable. Recent releases include Arthur Suydam: The Art of the Barbarian; Skin Deep; The Alien Encounters Poster Book; Visions: The Art of Arthur Suydam; The Fantastic Art of Arthur Suydam; Mudwogs, and The Adventures of Cholly and Flytrap, published worldwide and currently in pre-production for film. Suydam has contributed text and artwork to numerous comics publications, including Batman, Conan, Tarzan, Predator, Aliens, Death Dealer, and National Lampoon, to name only a few, as well as new work coming out from Image, Last Gasp, Vanguard Productions, and Eva Ink.

“Heroes Are Pure Expressions Of Masculinity” RENEE WITTERSTAETTER: As a young boy growing up, what do you remember about your first encounters with art and heroic fantasy? ARTHUR SUYDAM: When I was in the hospital [as a child], my parents brought me comics—G.I. Combat with dinosaurs. Later, I found magazines and art books with classical etchings and the works of the Italian and Dutch Renaissance artists, Michelangelo, Bouguereau, and many other artists from that period.

“Two-Fisted and Streetwise, With Integrity” That’s how Arthur likes his heroes. Above: he holds aloft one of his Cholly and Flytrap paintings at a gallery in Spain a couple of years back. At right, a drawing (pen and ink on parchment) of Batman pursuing The Catwoman. [Batman & Catwoman TM & ©2006 DC Comics.]

In fact, Arthur is on the comics scene in a big way this year, having in 2005 alone received the “Artist Guest of Honor” Award from Dragon Con in Atlanta, GA, and Lifetime Achievement Awards from the University of Maryland and the San Sebastian Film Festival in Spain. He has also just been inducted into the august Society of Illustrators in New York City. You may have also seen his new super-hero work from DC Comics and Marvel Comics over the last year—mostly recently his Marvel Zombie covers that have been named in the “Wizard Magazine Top Covers of the Month.” Issue after issue of this overthe-top-selling comic has been going back to press. All are fitting tributes to this writer/creator/artist, whose overriding passion has been creating stories, characters, and memorable moments in a wide range of fiction via either his words, his art, or, sublimely, both. In April 2006, I was able to sit down with Arthur for a candid interview about his artistic beginnings as a child and his start in comics at DC and then Heavy Metal, as well as catch up on what the creator is doing currently. —Renee W.

An Interview With The Artist Of Cholly And Flytrap And Marvel Zombies Covers

RW: As an artist, what in literature makes the hero’s journey so compelling to you? SUYDAM: I believe that, as proud men, heroes are what we aspire to be. It’s what all that Bible-thumping and religion is about, only the media communicates more effectively. For a boy, these heroic tales define codes we, as developing children, aspire to and define not only the way we see ourselves, but the way the world sees us, as well. Heroes are pure expressions of masculinity, still relevant today, and appealing to both sexes. For me, those early paintings and etchings helped define gender roles and are universal.

SUYDAM: Clark Gable, Spencer Tracy, Bogart, in just about any movie. Two-fisted and streetwise with integrity. But a hero has to be fallible. Otherwise it’s not viable. People relate to what feels “real” to them in storytelling. Parallels are what it’s all about. The possibility of failure makes it exciting. Take Superman. If Superman has a flaw, it is that he is not fallible enough. That makes him not real.

Nobody knows this, really, but when I was five years old, I was burned pretty badly. They didn’t think I was going to make it. I didn’t even think about this until now… but at that time, Even King Kong is the single thing I had heroic fantasy. King to look forward to was Kong was the hero, a watching Superman on tragic hero, very TV in the playroom. Shakespearean. What George Reeves. I was made him tragic was wrapped up like a his inevitable demise. mummy. I couldn’t “That Guy Was Real” Who didn’t root for the walk. The only thing Arthur says that to him at age five, George Reeves as Superman (see insert) was “real.” The artist monkey at the end of sticking out of the brought that TV icon to life in his own way, in this 2005 painting done in oil and mixed media, which he that film? bandages was my face, calls his homage to popular illustrator Alex Ross. To see it in color, pick up a copy of the recent volume really. But once a The Fantastic Art of Arthur Suydam, published by Vanguard Press. [Superman TM & ©2006 DC Comics.] RW: What do you see week—being in that as the universal theme hospital for a year was utter hell—the thing I looked forward to was in heroic fantasy? Superman, and getting a half decent reception on a little black-&white TV. I could see little pieces… the reception was sometimes so SUYDAM: The Stranger. An unexpected individual rising to a bad. I was five. I thought he was real at the time. I was absolutely challenge where others fail, at a risk of losing it all, but coming away a convinced and nobody could tell me differently. Like Santa Claus—that more evolved individual in the end. guy was real. RW: What in popular culture helped you to define your own personal take on heroic fantasy and your art? SUYDAM: Survivors of war, sports figures, mainly real people— historical figures who effectuated change in their time and made a difference. DaVinci, Teddy Roosevelt, Einstein, Martin Luther, Madame Curie, the list is endless. DaVinci was the universal man, the eternal student-teacher. He took it upon himself to learn absolutely everything he possibly could about the world. He was a sculptor, a draftsman, a painter, an inventor, a scientist, and a skilled musician— but most of all, a keen observer of life.

“I Was Dying, Basically, And I Didn’t Realize It”

RW: Looking back now, did anything about that time help to shape your future?

SUYDAM: Who, me? [laughs]

SUYDAM: I don’t know. Maybe. Those are the learning years, both physically and psychologically. You start deciding what you want to do with your life. What excites you. What inspires you. How exciting it was to watch some of those films and TV shows and see some of the classical pictures in art books, and read Mark Twain—they are all about heroes. I wanted to create that excitement not only for myself, but for other folks as well. I wanted to be part of that excitement. I think that’s what it’s all about.

RW: What about modern media heroes, in film or otherwise? Who influenced your own personal idea of the hero in your own artistic growth?

I started drawing at about the age of four. I started writing at six. I started writing when I could walk again and I was able to go away to camp. I started writing songs.

RW: That sounds so familiar.

Arthur Suydam: “Heroes Are What We Aspire To Be”

RW: Back to the fire—how did the accident happen? SUYDAM: Playing with fire—fireworks, actually. Firecrackers. A bunch of kids got together. Tied a string to the end of a kite and tried to light a match to it. We thought it would fly off. But, a burst of wind came along and blew the string into my clothes and set my clothes on fire. I remember running up on my porch and trying to get into my house to tell my Mom. To get my Mom to help me. The door was jammed and wouldn’t open. It was stuck and I couldn’t get into the house. I remember yanking on this crazy belt with no pin in it trying to get the burning clothes off. The harder I pulled, the tighter the belt got. I was running around in circles on the porch and going up in flames. The neighbors came out and stared in shock. Nobody budged to help me. They just stuck their heads out and stared. Out of their doors, out of their windows. Finally, the Greek guy from down the street came running and threw a rug over me. That’s what finally put the fire out. They didn’t expect me to live. There were discussions in the hospital that maybe they should not try to save me because I was burnt so badly. Maybe they should just let me go…. I remember the doctors talking to my parents. My father was the one that said, “No, you’ve got to save him. You’ve got to pull him through.” I got very angry, thinking that they’d let me go. It reminds me of that Monty Python movie–“I’m not dead yet, just mortally wounded—I’ll be all right. I just need a little sleep.” I was dying, basically, and I didn’t realize it. I was completely convinced I was walking out of there, even though I was wrapped from head to toe. My father threatened them: “If you don’t try to save my son, I’m gonna kill you.”

“[My Father] Was A Very Human Human” RW: What did you think of your Dad? Did you consider him a hero? SUYDAM: My hero, sure. He was street smart. Self-made kind of guy. A fix-it genius. A musician. For all his shortcomings, he was amazing. He had an abundance of what seems to be in short supply in America today. Despite his limited worldly experience and limited education, he had impeccable judgment for solving problems and for seeing things as they really are. I admire him. It’s a talent. A sixth sense that is very rare.

“My Parents Brought Me Comics—G.I. Combat With Dinosaurs” Actually, the “War That Time Forgot” series ran mostly in Star Spangled War Stories—but Arthur later indulged his love of drawing the giant reptilians in his 1996 feature Libby in the Lost World. Another illo we’re sorry we can’t show you in color. [©2006 Arthur Suydam.]

RW: Common sense? SUYDAM: Yeah. People get so caught up with the accumulation of wealth and material goods that they can overlook the important things in life. My Dad could fix anything. No formal training. Didn’t matter what it was—refrigerators, tractors, radios, vending machines, cars, trucks… whatever. He was a tractor-trailer driver by trade. People loved to hire him because if a truck broke down on the road—which they always did—he was the only guy who could fix the truck and deliver the load. Whenever I had anything that was broken, I’d hand it over to him. I’d come back in a hour and there it would be. He believed that the truth is not a gray thing. None of this “spin” bull**** we see so much of today. RW: Your father was also a musician, like yourself. What kind?

An Interview With The Artist Of Cholly And Flytrap And Marvel Zombies Covers

SUYDAM: Singer, guitar player. Country-and-western, mostly.

“People Today Build A Cocoon Around Their Kids”

RW: You wanted to be like your father? SUYDAM: I’ve got mixed feelings about that. I don’t know. I loved to try to play with him. My aspiration musically was to be a good enough to play with Dad. He had this old Gibson guitar that was his pride and joy, and he’d never let me touch it, but always said that someday after he died it would be mine. That guitar meant so much to him—I never really wanted it. Back then, I was afraid to go near it. Then when he passed away, I souped that guitar up and took it on the road with me. It became my most prized possession. My only prized possession. I was so proud of that old Gibson. But, it was stolen from me later on out of my studio by one of my student assistants, who was a drug addict, unbeknownst to me. I don’t endeavor to hang onto material possessions too much, but that one hurt. We’re only on this earth for a short while. Everything we have is on loan. RW: Did you know back then that your father was fallible? SUYDAM: Oh, he was very fallible. Fallible up and down the pike. All day long. [laughs] He was a very human human. With all the strengths and weaknesses. I remember the next-door neighbor trying to run me over with her Cadillac because she didn’t like me picking my guitar when her husband got home from work. I was only a kid, eleven years old. I mean, [the neighbor’s husband] was a drummer, and there is nothing on this planet as noisy as a drum set in a house. He’d come home at night and be on his drum set for two hours and you could hear that thing two blocks away. Never a word from us. Yet when I practiced my little guitar, she’d blow a gasket. She chased me down in her car, came up on the curb after me, then ran into the house to get her husband to come out to beat me up. “Get that kid! Kill that kid!” she said. Right then, my father pulled up in his car, got a hammer out from underneath his seat, and chased him around the block a couple of times and then back into his house. RW: What about your Mom? SUYDAM: My Mom was crazy for putting up with all of us. Four boys, and the biggest child of all. It never ceases to amaze me how she could just roll with the tide. She has a very practical sense of life and all its challenges, how the bad fits in with the good, how it’s all part of life. If you accept one, you have to accept the other.

RW: Where did you grow up? Sounds like your ship was in jeopardy quiet a bit. SUYDAM: Trenton, New Jersey. On the river. At times, I guess, it was a tough place to grow up. Being along the river, they were kind-of like Huck Finn dangers. Kids always getting into mischief that came back to bite them on the seat of their pants. You knew you had to take care of yourself and that you couldn’t really rely on anybody else to take care of you. Life prepares you for what is to come. The future is unwritten. RW: Did these Huck Finn type adventures help shape your creativity? SUYDAM: I never thought about it much. Maybe. I don’t know. All the trouble, all the hurt that we got into creating our own adventures…. We’d climb a water pipe and then someone falls right onto a picket fence. RW: Ouch! Who was that? SUYDAM: Eh. That was me. “Yeah, let’s climb on top of this roof… it’s only five stories high, and let’s hang off the side and see who can hang on the longest.” That kind of thing. There wasn’t that much TV. Two channels, with bad reception. So, mostly creating trouble. Making trouble. We were experts. RW: At the same time, it sounds like it helped to develop your imagination. That is, if you survived. SUYDAM: Parents today build a cocoon around their kids. They don’t realize they are doing them a disservice, trying to protect them from the essential experiences that prepare you for the world. In my opinion, it’s one of the biggest mistake a parent could make. RW: Your family eventually moved to a more urban setting, is that right? SUYDAM: A couple of miles inland. Nothing to do can be a recipe for trouble. Then there are “territories.” You couldn’t go into another territory. I remember these two brothers jumped one of my buddies. They cut his throat. We’re talking about 13-year-olds, 14-year-olds. The mischief on the river was one thing, but this was real trouble. All the trouble you could find. RW: When you first came to New York, how did your father react? You’ve told me this story before… SUYDAM: Oh, I don’t know if I want to put that in print. Let’s just say he was not in favor of my coming to New York. He was convinced the criminals and sexual deviants would swallow me up. We had a mild disagreement. We debated for some moments. It was finally resolved

Arthur Suydam: “Heroes Are What We Aspire To Be”

and I was able to go to New York. RW: That’s the short story. SUYDAM: The short story. My father and I had our conflicts, but I could outrun him. [laughs]. You have to stand up for what you think is right. RW: It seems like your father gave you a strength of will. SUYDAM: I was young and didn’t know who I was. You are nobody at that age, a plant that’s still growing. You’re not a whole person. History and destiny haven’t yet determined what you are going to be. Are you going to be a potato? Or a tomato? RW: So, what are you? SUYDAM: I think a potato. [laughs]

“Joe [Orlando] Was A Very Special Guy” RW: Career-wise, would you say it’s true that the late Joe Orlando, former art director at DC Comics, was your first mentor?

The Creature Under The Stairs In The Fantastic Art of Arthur Suydam, the art at right is listed as an “excerpt [=detail] from comic panel that landed Suydam his first professional job as an artist”—with DC editor Joe Orlando (seen above as per the June 1973 Academy of Comic Book Arts Newsletter; thanks to Flo Steinberg). [Art ©2006 Arthur Suydam.]

SUYDAM: Joe was a very special guy. The kind that is most needed and sorely missed in the business today. I believe his calling was that of art director. He was the guy who had single-handedly brought all the great artists into the business at DC Comics. Me, Bernie, Jeff Jones, Michael

“A Carnival of Dwarfs!” The splash and final page from Arthur’s first published comic book story, in House of Secrets #119 (May 1974). Script by Michael Fleischer—but we’re not quite sure what “art continuity” means. Arthur mentions having to learn to draw cars, kitchen utensils, etc., for this story—though Bob Cherry, who sent us these scans, couldn’t find any autos in any of Suydam’s DC mystery-mag work. Thanks also to Bob Bailey for additional info and aid. [©2006 DC Comics.]

Golden—the list goes on forever. More than anyone, Joe had real skill and a real talent for spotting talent and understanding talent. He was the best art director in comics. When I got out of high school, I made an appointment with him. First time I came to New York looking for work and I got a job. Creepy and Eerie were interested in me. The illustrators of Warren Publishing were the finest that ever were in the history of comics to this day. There’s nobody that compares to those guys, especially that threeor four-year period. Whatever illustrations those artists did later on, without exception they did their finest

An Interview With The Artist Of Cholly And Flytrap And Marvel Zombies Covers

work for that company: Angelo Torres, Al Williamson, Al McWilliams, Reed Crandall, Frank Frazetta, Gene Colan, Steve Ditko. But then I went to DC and Joe handed me a script and I started working. Joe is one of the unsung heroes. What Joe was really great at was talent management. His eye was also incredible. I was very raw, I needed a lot of guidance, and he was the guy that provided it for me. Basically, Joe reached into a drawer, pulled out the first script on top, slid it over the desk to me, and said, “Come back when you’re done.” And that was it. I had to go home and draw spoons and forks and plates and shoes and suits and ties and all those things that up until that point I had no interest in, and for sure didn’t know how to draw. It was a whole new world that I had to draw when that script went down on the table. That first story, for House of Secrets, took me a long time. I wanted to do such a good job for him. It wasn’t out of laziness. I’m sure that’s what he thought. I was so honored that he had put his trust in me that I wanted to do right by him. It was just a short story. I had not done much sequential art. What I had done had always been my own stories. When I was handed a script of someone else’s ideas, it really threw me a curve. It took me years to really learn that process. The stories were very mainstream. Very censored. Very predictable. Not what I was used to. So I had to learn a whole new set of skills. RW: Was Joe surprised to see you?

SUYDAM: Surprisingly, no. Surprisingly patient, yes. Nine months later when I showed up, with this short story. He calmly sat down with me and told me what was right about it and what was wrong and told me what type of artwork I should look at and which artists I should check out and what areas of my art I should work on to improve. He had a lot of patience for me. And that’s probably why I’m here today. He could have been rude and just kicked me out for taking so long, but he didn’t. RW: Was your second story any faster? SUYDAM: Yeah, I cut the time in half. [laughs] Nine months down to six months. Each job got quicker and quicker. I was a writer first and an artist second. I always just drew what I knew how to draw. What I liked. The upside of that is that you get to work on things that inspire you. The downside is that the things you don’t like to draw, you don’t learn to draw. You are a stranger to those objects. It’s an easy way to be one-dimensional. So I had to learn how to draw cars, but I never liked to draw cars.

“Mark Twain Is Probably The Biggest Influence On Me” RW: What were some of your artistic influences at this time? SUYDAM: I really didn’t know their names at the time; I just had clippings of their work. First and foremost, the Renaissance artists and the classical artists. The Dutch artists—Rembrandt, Edmond Dulac, Arthur Rackham. Then Jack Kirby and Steve Ditko. Later on, Frank Frazetta was a big influence. Will Eisner, who is the one I really learned storyboarding from. I spent years studying storytelling in The Spirit. Comics are like a movie on paper to me, so all the old movies I love so much, I would have them on whenever I was drawing or painting or writing. The old gangster movies. For decades I would think to myself, How would Will Eisner do it? RW: Much of your work seems to be inspired by nature, as well. SUYDAM: Yes, I’ve always been fascinated by the color and textures of reptiles. To me they are like miniature dinosaurs. There is poetry in all things in nature, right down to the cellular structures. That’s what being an artist is all about. The eye of the beholder. Sharing your vision with others. RW: Who are your writing influences? SUYDAM: Mark Twain is probably the biggest influence on me. Then William Tolstoy, Guy de Maupassant, Theodore Sturgeon. I loved Mark Twain, though—especially the short stories. “The Jumping Frog of Calaveras County.” And all the underground cartoonists—R. Crumb and Vaughn Bodé. I could relate to where all these stories were coming from—the humanity, the personality of the characters. The writing really strikes home with me and feels familiar. RW: Do you write in the same way? SUYDAM: I try to. It’s a family tradition. RW: I know that, with all that interest in the natural sciences that you had, you thought about becoming a scientist. What changed?

“The Island of Creeping Flesh!” Arthur’s second story for Orlando may have taken him “only” six months to do, but there was exactly a year between the publication of the two assignments. This one saw print in House of Secrets #131 (May 1975). Thanks to Bob Cherry & Justin Fairfax. [©2006 DC Comics.]

SUYDAM: My final year of high school I got offers for work from some of the publishing houses. I loved writing and illustrating but wasn’t sure it was a good way to make a living. I can’t say that I regret that decision. I love the arts. I was just surprised that anybody could make a living at it. Your whole life you hear that there is no way to make a living in the arts. RW: You make your living in multiple arts.

Arthur Suydam: “Heroes Are What We Aspire To Be” SUYDAM: I’ve always believed that a well-rounded individual should have broad knowledge and that life is about training yourself to become a complete person. For me, the arts are a big part of that. Art, literature, painting, drawing, music, and dance. RW: What type of music do you gravitate towards? SUYDAM: Well, my father was a country-and-western musician. All my uncles and aunts were bluegrass musicians on the side. My grandfather played guitar, fiddle, banjo, harmonica, and danced a mean jig. For me it’s been all flavors of American Roots music—blues, Cajun, Zydeco, rockabilly. I love folk music from all countries.

“Comics Is A Great, Fertile Place To Practice And Grow” RW: What about the comic industry has made you stay in it for so long? SUYDAM: Comics is a great, fertile place to practice and grow. What I love about comics is that there is so much drawing involved. That it’s

RW: Was it harder to break into your music career than it was your art career? SUYDAM: No, actually, it was much easier. I got job offers when I was 13 years old and I was already starting to perform professionally as a musician in New Jersey. People were sneaking me into bars and lying about my age. The bar owners seemed to like me. Some of them knew me from my shoeshine days. RW: What groups did you play with? SUYDAM: Too many to name. Mostly my own group. Then, Bill Haley’s Comets, The Platters. I had a lot of local musicians playing with me from bands like the Rolling Stones, Brian Setzer, Joe Cocker, Pink Floyd, and James Taylor. Good players. Music is an important part of my life. It’s harder to play out these days, because there is so much entertainment at home with computers and television. The club scene has really dried up here in New York. But I love music and I still play professionally. RW: Why is it important to you to be well-rounded? SUYDAM: That’s what it’s all about, no? You only live once. Life shouldn’t be spent solely in the pursuit of material wealth. I believe that a life well spent is one devoted to education of one’s self and sharing with friends. Support the arts. Grow and try and help ease the burden by taking minds off of the toils of daily life. RW: What have you done that you feel has contributed to that? SUYDAM: I’m not the person to ask. I just hope people enjoy what I create, the stories I create, and the music I play, and that I don’t end up at the bottom of the cat litter box. It’s mostly for my friends and myself that I write.

Is There A Monster In The House? The Grand Comic Database lists Suydam as drawing six stories, all told, for DC’s two House titles, though these four all came out two or three years after the second. Paul Levitz, now DC president & publisher, was the editor of some issues, perhaps working under Orlando, since Arthur says he did “five or six stories” for Joe. These splashes are from (clockwise from above left) HoM #256 (Jan.-Feb. 1978) and #257 (March-April ’78), House of Secrets #151 (April-May ’78), and HoM #261 (Oct. ’78). Thanks to Bob Cherry. [©2006 DC

An Interview With The Artist Of Cholly And Flytrap And Marvel Zombies Covers a story. As artists we observe life, observe people and circumstances. Illustrating is writing a story that can be told with one picture. It’s all about the story. We gather that information our whole lives, and a creative person stores it away for future use.

“When Are You Going To Get A Real Job?” RW: If you had to pick one real-life hero from recent history, who would it be? SUYDAM: Teddy Roosevelt. He was surrounded by Machiavellians, and he fought tremendous obstacles during his Presidency. The comic industry is the same. Lots of dirty politics. Jealousies. Insecurities. Disgusting. The most dangerous individuals in the world are highly enthusiastic incompetents. Rampant in comics. It’s what sets management and the artist apart. They don’t get it. Never have and never will. It’s what they hire you for and then try to take away from you once you’re on the payroll. Teddy was the first to really stand up against the powerful lobbies of the millionaires in Washington and provide democracy in America. RW: What does your mother think of your chosen profession? the best school for improvement there is. “On the job” practice is priceless. As a musician and artist, you do your wood shedding before you are 18, because after that you hit the pavement working, and you don’t really get the opportunity to practice anymore; so, whatever skills you need to learn, you want to get that done before you start working professionally. I’ve tried to direct my own career to utilize the comic projects to develop my own talents as an artist. I’ve seen artists get stuck in one thing for too long and actually digress.

SUYDAM: “When are you going to get a real job?” [laughs] RW: Really? What does she think of your art when you show it to her?

Two Masters Of Arts Arthur (on left) with his “mentor and friend” Frank Frazetta, circa 2000—and a Suydam homage to one of the most famous works of their fellow artist Leonardo Da Vinci. [Art ©2006 Arthur Suydam]

I try to choose my projects for their ability to challenge me and provide opportunities in areas where I feel I need to grow. At a sacrifice of taking more lucrative jobs, which has kept me out of the mainstream. What I get in exchange is a good education. My work is full of homages to my teachers and on-the-job lessons in areas I needed to grow in. Comics makes you draw every day, makes you paint, makes you develop as a writer, as a director. In comics, the artist is the Spielberg, the Hitchcock. After all these years, Hollywood is finally catching up with the idea of harnessing the creativity in the comics community. Cartoonists are the most creatively gifted individuals in the world. You practice being creative on a daily basis for 10 to 30 years, you better be good by age 50 or so. You should be able to write the book on it. I can’t think of another industry that provides that kind of growth opportunity. RW: You are one of only a handful of comic professionals who write and draw their own material. There have to be some other comic writers/artists you like?

SUYDAM: Oh, there are. The comic audience has matured. We are not talking about people who are 7 or 8 years old anymore. We’re talking about readers in their 30s and 40s who read prose novels as well as comics, and comics must be able to compete and hold its own with other forms of literature. RW: Tell me about your characters Cholly and Flytrap and then Mudwogs? SUYDAM: Those were experimental projects for me, an opportunity to try things what had not been done in comics before. Every face tells

SUYDAM: She holds it upside down. RW: [laughs] Was that when you started, or now?

SUYDAM: Same difference. RW: Did she think the same thing about your music? SUYDAM: “Too loud. Sounds like a hive of bees.” [laughs] RW: Does she play an instrument like the rest of your family? SUYDAM: The spoons. RW: The spoons? SUYDAM: Yeah. Mom taught me how, as well. At the age of five, I think. She’s good singer, as well. Also a prolific songwriter. RW: Have you recorded any of her songs? SUYDAM: Naw. Actually, she’s archived them. At some point I’d like to get together and record her tunes. They are mostly bluegrass tunes— same as my Dad used to play. I’d like to get her to record them someday.

“I Feel My Work Speaks For Itself” RW: Many people consider you as skilled a writer and musician as an artist. How do you feel about that? SUYDAM: Well, I feel my work speaks for itself. But you know, if you write well, you generally don’t get recognition. You don’t get hired to

Arthur Suydam: “Heroes Are What We Aspire To Be” do illustration. If you are a good illustrator, you generally don’t get hired to write. And if you sing well, you don’t get hired to do either. [laughs] It’s just one of those things you have to deal with and go on. RW: How do you find the time to do all of your art? SUYDAM: There is no time. There never was enough time. Never will be enough time. RW: I know the current Marvel Zombies series has been getting an incredible amount of press and fan support. Let’s talk about that for a minute. One of my favorites has been the cover you did recreating X-Men #1 in “Zombie” fashion. Which is your favorite? SUYDAM: I guess whatever cover I’m working on at the time is my favorite—until the next one comes along. I usually work pretty fast when I’m painting and try to knock them out in a day or so, though there are a couple that I got a little stuck on. The “Spider-Man/MJ Wedding” piece and the “Hulk #1” paintings were difficult. Sometimes you find yourself painting and painting. The days fly by and the picture still looks the same. The ones with no backgrounds in the original renditions present a interesting challenge. How to translate all that artistic shorthand and dead space into a more believable artistic plane. I like a good challenge. And these covers certainly do present that. Marvel usually needs them pretty fast and furious, so that’s how I deliver them. Often I’ll keep working on a painting even after it’s been delivered to the publisher, right up until the time it goes to press. I want them to be as good as they can be. I want them to be perfect.

cliché. The publishers are keeping it very hush-hush until it’s ready for release, but I’m sure there will be more announcements when they can. RW: Some of the writing on the Marvel Zombies series reminds me of your Cholly and Flytrap work. Any correlation there? The last I heard, Cholly and Flytrap is in pre-production for a film. What’s the latest on that? SUYDAM: No connection between Cholly and the Zombies. Robert Kirkman’s writing on the Zombies is terrific. Just the way I like it. Sassy and fresh. The Cholly movie project with Paranoid Delusions is happening and is a go. At present we are working on the script and the look and sound of the characters. RW: After Marvel Zombies, what next on the list for Arthur Suydam? SUYDAM: Hopefully more Marvel Zombies—with the same team. When you’ve got a great team together, one that works so well and can produce, it would be a crime to split them up. I hear there are some other top-secret plans in place. I can’t talk about them now. Heck, I don’t even know about them now, but I’m sure you’ll be hearing about them soon. [laughs]

“Be A Good Artist Or Be A Good Businessman” RW: What’s your best advice that you can give to a starving artist who wants to get in the biz, and do you recommend any books that

RW: What goes through the mind of Arthur Suydam when he’s working? SUYDAM: For me, creating comics is like creating film, which is why comics translate so easily into the film genre. The script is the screenplay and the artist is the director. I’m here to write the best stories and create the best art I possibly can. For me, comics are a legitimate art form, the fine art of the day, and that’s how I approach the genre. Each new work is an opportunity to show what I can or can’t do, and hopefully learn something along the way. I try to avoid the “big fish in the small pond” syndrome that so many creatives seem to get caught up in. To focus on the big picture—on the future, on the past—is more important. In my world, my contemporaries are not competition. I compete with myself and with the great artists and writers who have gone before. All I ask in return from a client is they be professional, straight up and effective at their job. RW: In addition to Marvel Zombies, you have an amazing barbarian series that’s out. I am, of course, referring to the Art of the Barbarian series from Image. You’ve worked on Conan in the past, and now Conan is back and driving fast to success. Any chance we’ll get to see your work with that series again? SUYDAM: [laughs] Well, I suppose anything is possible, although I do believe some very mixed-up people would have to get their act together for that to happen. Actually, I am working on a top-secret barbarian project right now that is better than Conan. I’m looking forward to expanding that genre from the present

An Epic Ending The final issue of Epic Illustrated, Marvel’s 1980-86 answer to Heavy Metal, featured the return of “Cholly and Flytrap,” a feature which had appeared in several earlier issues. Suydam also painted the cover of that edition, Vol. 1, #36 (Feb. 1986). [©2006 Arthur Suydam.]

An Interview With The Artist Of Cholly And Flytrap And Marvel Zombies Covers help you shine and you’ll have success. I never read a book on how to become a comic artist, so I couldn’t recommend one. There are two ways to be a successful artist in comics—be a good artist or be a good businessman. Me, I’m a lousy businessman. [laughs] RW: Oh, I doubt that. Are you better at any one of your creative outlets—writing, drawing, music—than the others? SUYDAM: Strangely enough, to me, they’re all the same. RW: So there is no getting over that Catch-22 of not being hired as a writer if you are an artist, even in comics?

Barbarians At The Gate

SUYDAM: There is no getting over it. The way I deal with it is, I go under different names. Clients like to pigeonhole you, they tend to have a very limited scope—they just can’t make the crossover, it just confuses them. The music world knows me as “Red.” In the art and writing world, most people know me as “Arthur.” In other genres, they call me “Zu-Zu and Harry.” And so on.

Arthur hopes to carry the barbarian hero epitomized by Robert E. Howard’s Conan to the next level. Of course, these drawings could be either of the Cimmerian himself, or of a rough-hewn rival. [©2006 Arthur Suydam.]

he/she should read on how to become a comic book artist? SUYDAM: Oh, ****! Eat. Don’t starve. That’s a lot more time and space than we’ve got to answer here. But here it is in a nutshell: work hard to be the best. Watch out for the pond. Trying to be the best will

RW: Is it frustrating to have to go by different names? SUYDAM: Sure. It’s frustrating not having your work acknowledged. It’s all about vision. An evolved artist can see through bull**** as if it were a glass boat. It’s why they hire us in the first place. RW: But, having been so secretive in the past, you are making your noms de plume known here? SUYDAM: [laughs] I’m not making them known—you are. Still, it won’t do any good. It won’t clue them in to what I do. RW: What is it that you do? SUYDAM: I’m the man with the X-ray vision.

For information on the works of Arthur Suydam go to: www.evainkpublishing.com.

At The Zombie Jamboree Ball In 2005-2006 Arthur Suydam produced stunning covers for the Marvel Zombies series. This one’s an horrific homage, of course, to Jack Kirby’s cover for Fantastic Four #1. [F.F. ©2006 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Renee Witterstaetter. Photo courtesy of the interviewer.

RENEE WITTERSTAETTER worked as an editor on Superman at DC Comics and Silver Surfer and the Conan titles at Marvel in the 1980s, and in the 1990s at Topps Comics. She was also the colorist of hundreds of comics. Besides work in films and on music videos, she has authored several books and is the president of Eva Ink Publishing, which she founded in 1996.

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“Comics Magazines of the ’70s and ’80s!” From Savage Tales to Epic Illustrated, KIRBY’s “Speak-Out Series,” EISNER’s Spirit magazine, Unpublished PAUL GULACY, MICHAEL USLAN on the Shadow magazine you didn’t see, plus B&Ws from Atlas/Seaboard, Charlton, Skywald, and Warren. Featuring work by NEAL ADAMS, JOHN BOLTON, ARCHIE GOODWIN, DOUG MOENCH, EARL NOREM, ROY THOMAS, and more. Cover by GRAY MORROW!

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“Maybe I Was Just Loyal” Longtime “Batman” Artist SHELDON MOLDOFF Talks About Bob Kane And Other Phenomena Interview Conducted by Shel Dorf

A/E

EDITOR’S NOTE: The following interview was conducted in 1994 on behalf of David Anthony Kraft’s Comics Interview magazine, but has never before been published. Our thanks to Shel for making it available to us. Because the interview with Shelly Moldoff published in Alter Ego, Vol. 3, #4, is still available from TwoMorrows, the following has been edited so as to repeat relatively little material which was covered in the earlier-printed piece. In addition, due to limitations of space, some material concerning animation could not be included. The audio tape begins with Shelly relating an interesting anecdote, so we’ve left it that way:

Transcribed by Brian K. Morris “Did I Take The Wrong Path In The Crossroads Of Life?” SHELDON MOLDOFF: We were talking briefly about Milton Caniff and Steve Canyon and it reminds me of when a woman at the Daily News [Syndicate] was looking for somebody to replace Caniff on Terry and the Pirates. Somebody told me about it, so I did four or five dailies of Terry and submitted it to her. She called back in about a week, saying she liked it and to please come in. So I was all excited and went in. And she gave me a load of material and says she wants me to do six weeks: write a story, do six weeks, “pencil head”—that means pencil all of it and ink in half of it and then bring it in. Then I said, “Well, what do you pay for that?” She says, “We’ll pay you $60 a week for that.” When I got home, I started to think about $60. I was making, I think, $150 a week in the comic books. And I said, “Terry and the Pirates— that should bring in much more money.” I called her up and I told her, “Well, I’ll do it for the $60, but what will it pay if I get the job?” She says, “Well, why don’t you just do this first?” I said, “Well, I have to find out, because you need an assistant, you need a writer. I want to know what the budget is for it. Can you tell me that?” She says, “You know, I have someone I really think I’m going to give it to. Why don’t you just send everything back?” [Shel Dorf groans.]

In the Moldoff Mode Several years ago, for a Yuletide card sent by himself and his charming late wife Shirley, Shelly Moldoff caricatured himself and a number of the characters he had drawn over the years, most of which are mentioned in this interview. Shown in the central portrait, of course, are sketches of Hawkman, Batman, Catwoman, and The Penguin. The rest are (clockwise from top left): Green Lantern, Black Terror, Captain Midnight, Dr. Death (of Fawcett’s This Magazine Is Haunted), Hawkman, Robin, Courageous Cat & Minute Mouse (with a froggy nemesis), Kid Eternity and his heavenly Keeper, Batman, The Joker, and The Flash. Sheesh! And he didn’t even include any of the Superman family! Who didn’t Shelly draw? With special thanks to Craig Delich. [Batman, Robin, Catwoman, Penguin, Joker, Hawkman, Green Lantern, Flash, Kid Eternity & Mr. Keeper TM & ©2006 DC Comics; Black Terror, Captain Midnight, Dr. Death, Courageous Cat & Minute Mouse TM & ©2006 the respective TM & copyright holders.]

You know, all my life— and that’s gotta be 35, 40 years ago, at least—I’ve wondered, did I make a mistake? Did I take the wrong path in the crossroads of life? And I still have those panels somewhere.

“Maybe I Was Just Loyal”

Terry And the Low-Rates You’ll understand the above heading when you read Shelly’s first anecdote in the interview. Circa 1946, he penciled and inked these two sample dailies as a tryout for the great newspaper adventure strip Terry and the Pirates. He says they were “submitted to Mercy Scot, Daily News [Syndicate] editor when [Milton] Caniff was going to quit” to begin a new strip, Steve Canyon. “They chose George Wunder,” he adds; Wunder drew the strip until it ceased publication in 1973. Sorry we’ve lost a tiny bit from the photocopy of the final panel of the first strip. [Art ©2006 Sheldon Moldoff; Terry and the Pirates TM & ©2006 Daily News Syndicate or successors in interest.]

My first [pro] work in comic books was doing filler pages for Vincent Sullivan, who was the editor at National Periodicals [now DC Comics]. I had met Ellsworth and Sullivan maybe a year or two earlier, as I tried to peddle my work at different places. They had their own little outfit, as did Iger and Eisner. Will Eisner—I met him, too. I would just make the rounds until one day I cracked it and Vince said, “I’m gonna use you on some filler pages.” Those were oddity pages that could be about animals, it could be about sports, it could be the movies. You’d try to clip things out of newspapers that were interesting or humorous and fill a page with a half dozen or so little facts. [NOTE: Again as detailed in A/E V3#4, one of Shelly’s first sales was a sports filler on an inside cover of the first issue of a new comic book that would be titled… Action Comics.] And then the great World’s Fair in New York came along, and Vincent called me in and said, “Shelly, I want

SD: Never heard that story before. Thank you for sharing that. [At this point Shel shuts off the tape and restarts it, with a more formal opening.]

“Our Lives Were Tied In With Batman” SD: This is Sheldon Dorf, talking to Shelly Moldoff. It’s March 26, 1994; we’re at the Motor City Comics Convention in Novi, Michigan. Shelly, it’s good to finally sit you down and talk with you a little bit. Your career started in the very early days of comics. But first I want to find out where you were born. MOLDOFF: Well, I was born in Manhattan, New York City, and moved to the Bronx at an early age and spent all my years in the Bronx until I went into service. SD: This is World War II? MOLDOFF: World War II, yeah. You didn’t think it was World War I, did you? SD: No, I thought it might have been the Civil War. [laughs] MOLDOFF: You know, the comics took a lot out of me, but I hope it didn’t take that much out of me. Now that’s were I lived until, as I said, I came out of the service. SD: Let’s go back to the Bronx in the early ’40s. What was your art education? MOLDOFF: Well, I have no real art education, but I loved to draw since I can remember. [NOTE: At this point Shelly talks about meeting pro artist Bernard Baily, who later drew “The Spectre” and “Hour-Man,” at the age of 12… about being staff artist on his high school paper in the late 1930s… and about meeting famous sports cartoonist Willard Mullins. All of the above was detailed in A/E V3#4.]

“Peekin At Pictures” This, Shelly writes, is “a typical ‘filler’ page that I sold to editor Vincent Sullivan & DC Comics in 1940s.” It provided art experience (and “practice, practice, practice”) which served him in good stead later. [©2006 DC Comics.]

Sheldon Moldoff Talks About Bob Kane And Other Phenomena

Robin Dies At Dawn—And Lives By Night (Left:) One of the most celebrated tales Moldoff ever penciled was “Robin Dies at Dawn!”—the cover story of Batman #156 (June 1963). Bill Schelly wrote a whole article about it for A/E V2#5, which was reprinted in Alter Ego: The Comic Book Artist Collection—but alas, both are out of print. Here’s a key page (inked by Charles Paris), repro’d from a photocopy of the original art as autographed by Shelly some years back. Script by Bill Finger, who else? [©2006 DC Comics.] (Above:) Shelly drew this pic for the cover of the program book for Joe Petrilak’s magnificent All Time Classic New York Comic Book Convention, held on June 9-11, 2000—only, unfortunately, this “NY” con took place in White Plains, NY, and not enough people made the trek from Manhattan to let it turn a profit. But it had one of the greatest Golden Age guest lists of any comicon ever, and we have enough untranscribed writer-artist-and-editor panels from it to fill a whole issue of A/E one of these days—if we could only locate Joe P.! [Batman & Robin TM & ©2006 DC Comics.]

you to do about three pages on the World’s Fair.” I went out to the World’s Fair and got as much information as I could on how much concrete and how much steel and different oddities about the building and some of the exhibits, and I did half a dozen or more pages which were used in the book. Vincent Sullivan was very nice to me. In fact, last year in San Diego, he was a Guest of Honor, and I was there, too. We met each other again after close to fifty years. [NOTE: The 1939 and 1940 issues of World’s Fair Comics were reprinted in 2004 in the hardcover DC Comics Rarities Archives, Vol. 1.]

on “Batman” for Bob. I did Mr. District Attorney, Blackhawk—I inked in a lot of Curt Swan “Superman,” some covers. I did “The Legion of Super-Heroes” for Mort Weisinger. So I was busy. Between the two, I never had a dull year, which is the compensation I got for being Bob’s ghost, for keeping myself anonymous.

“[Alex] Raymond Influenced Me Greatly In My Work, Especially In ‘Hawkman’”

SD: Isn’t that remarkable? I was in the audience that day and there was an electric atmosphere in that room. The whole living history of the comics was there.

SD: Let’s pick up the time between 1939 and 1953. You made some waves as the “Hawkman” artist. Tell me a little bit about how you got the job doing “Hawkman.”

MOLDOFF: At that panel, I met Dick Sprang. That was the first time the two of us had ever met, though both our lives were tied in with “Batman,” very much so. I think, between the two of us, we have probably done more “Batman” pages than anybody. He worked directly for DC, but he moved early in his career to Arizona, because they had a lot of confidence in him. They knew that, when they sent him a script, it was going to come back beautifully done. I worked for Bob Kane as a ghost from ’53 to ’67. DC didn’t know that I was involved; that was the handshake agreement I had with Bob: “You do the work and don’t say anything, Shelly, and you’ve got steady work.”

MOLDOFF: Okay. When I did the filler pages, someone had already introduced me to Bob Kane, and I think I was his first assistant. I started doing lettering, backgrounds, the logos, and helping him. I knew his family very well, his father and mother and sister. They thought Bob was the greatest and that “Batman,” that he had just created, was going to be a sensation. They stimulated him, they really backed him. A lot of people have said he has to have had a great ego, and he does, no question about it. But I think that pushed him and the creativity of the early “Batman,” because it had something that none of the other strips had. There was a tremendous sense of mystery and shadow in his work. Chester Gould [Dick Tracy writer/artist/creator] wasn’t the best artist in the world, and neither was Kane, but they did impart a flavor and a feeling.

SD: Did he pay well? MOLDOFF: No, he didn’t pay great. But it was steady work, it was security. I knew that we had to do a minimum of 350 to 360 pages a year. Also, I was doing other work at the same time for [editors] Jack Schiff and Murray Boltinoff at DC. They didn’t know I was working

SD: A sense of drama. MOLDOFF: A sense of drama, that’s it. You nailed it on the head. And

“Maybe I Was Just Loyal”

it made those two strips take off. Now, while I was starting with Bob, I met Sheldon Mayer [editor at DC’s sister company All-American Comics], and he gave me some work to do, and [AA publisher] M.C. Gaines wanted me to do “Hawkman.” When that came along, I left Bob and went on my own with Sheldon Mayer. And I went along very rapidly. The next thing, I was doing the “Green Lantern” covers, “Flash” covers, “Hawkman” covers.

over 5,000 pages for Bob. SD: Wow. That’s a lot of work. Without an art education, was the drawing difficult for you? Did you take any art classes at this time?

MOLDOFF: It was. The only art classes I took were right before the war. The WPA, coming during the Depression, had free art classes at the YHMA on 92nd Street in New York City, and I went there for Life Drawing. When I started drawing, I wanted to go to In those days, you penciled Disney, I wanted to be a and inked everything. The mass cartoonist. I loved the cartoony production of comics didn’t side of comics, the bigfoot, the come until a little later, when funny stuff, but there was no they decided that some fellas are market for it. Along came the better at penciling, some fellas comic books, and Alex are better at inking: “We have Raymond and Milt Caniff had our own letterers, you don’t made a big splash with their have to letter any more.” At that “Both Our Lives Were Tied In With ‘Batman’” illustrations, and I said, “How time, you lettered the page, too. Beginning in World’s Finest Comics #102 (June 1959), Dick Sprang as penciler and am I going to learn to draw it You did everything. I did the Sheldon Moldoff as inker worked in tandem on another super-team, from a script so fast? I can’t wait.” I was a All-American #16 [cover], by Batman co-creator Bill Finger. Repro’d from DC’s WFC Archives, Vol. 3. From the great admirer of Raymond and which introduced “The Green mid-1940s through the early 1950s, Sprang drew “Batman” directly for DC Comics; he influenced me greatly in my starting in 1953 Shelly ghosted the feature for Bob Kane. Whether, and how much, Lantern.” I remember I was so work, particularly in DC editors and publishers knew about Kane ghosts Lew Sayre Schwartz (1946-53) happy when I came home with a “Hawkman.” I wanted to draw and Shelly Moldoff (1953-67) has long been open to conjecture. copy of that magazine that I like that, so I did. I tried to Dick Sprang’s photo at left is courtesy of the late artist’s agent, Ike Wilson; Shelly’s tore the cover off it and I put it change a lot of things. I would photo is from A/E V3 #4. The photo of Sprang was seen in its entirety in Alter Ego in a frame on the wall and I said, work from photos, also, but #19, which contained interviews with Sprang and major “Batman” inker Charles “Mom, look at this, that’s my Paris. See the TwoMorrows ad bloc on pp. 87-96 for details on how to obtain a when I finished, I wanted it to cover.” Well, Mom should have copy! [Page ©2006 DC Comics; photo ©2006 Ike Wilson – all rights reserved.] look like Raymond had done it. said, “Sheldon, you should He was a heavy influence on never tear that up. You should my early career. Not too much Hal Foster. Hal Foster belonged in a have put it away.” [laughs] I think, at last count, if you had a good museum. I think you could turn his illustrations into oil paintings and copy of that issue, it was worth over $30,000. they would be magnificent. SD: What was the lead time between the time you finished the art SD: Milt Caniff, whom I’ve worked with, was also one of the great and it got into publication? How close did you work the deadline? influences. MOLDOFF: I’d say it was about 6 weeks. I think a lot of the comics MOLDOFF: Oh, there’s no question. But, it’s a funny thing—you then were printed in Buffalo. It was very important to meet your could swipe or adapt something from Raymond or some of the others. deadline, and I must say that in all the years, and I’ve done so many But Caniff—if you took away the shadows and the folds and the thousands of pages of stories, I’ve never missed a deadline. When I wrinkles and his wonderful brushwork, there was no body under there worked with Kane, he or his wife Beverly would pick up the scripts to copy. He made you think these people looked like that. It was all an [from DC] and give them to me, and I never missed a deadline. illusion, a tremendously gifted illusion that he had for creating a scene. I remember I did some work for an illustrator, Nell Hott, who wanted Incidentally, someone called me and told me that Charlie Paris had to do a strip that looked like Milt Caniff. Nell Hott is the one who died. Charlie Paris inked so many “Batmans” and so many of my designed the Gerber Baby that’s still on the Gerber Baby Foods. She stories. I was hoping, this summer, to meet him in San Diego, but said to me, “Oh, Milton Caniff is an illustrator. His stuff is wonderful. there’s another person who was connected to “Batman” that I never And he tells a beautiful story.” So he was held in high regard by met—Charlie Paris. He inked lots of my work—and I know I did well

Sheldon Moldoff Talks About Bob Kane And Other Phenomena First-Seen Green (Left:) Here’s a real collector’s item: the front and back pages of a “promotional cover announcement” sent out to retailers in 1940 re All-American Comics #16, heralding the debut of “The Green Lantern”! Special thanks to a donor Dominic Bongo & Heritage Comics. Artist Mart Nodell brought the GL concept and origin elements to DC/AA, and Bill Finger scripted that first tale—but this cover by Sheldon Moldoff was the first view the public ever had of the Emerald Gladiator. So what if Shelly put GL’s ring on his right hand, and the colorist made his hair brown? It was a great cover, sporting a great character, whose verdant shadow is still being cast 2/3 of a century later! [©2006 DC Comics.] (Right:) Sheldon’s early “Hawkman” work is on display in DC’s Golden Age Hawkman Archives, Vol. 1, and the first five volumes of All Star Archives—so here’s a commission illo of the Winged Wonder and GL battling the latter’s nemesis Solomon Grundy, courtesy of collector Arnie Grieves. [Hawkman, Green Lantern, & Solomon Grundy TM & ©2006 DC Comics.]

everybody. I mean, he was a gifted artist. He just had a unique style. SD: In those days, a lot of guys couldn’t sign their strips [in comic books] because the companies didn’t want the name to become public, or else another comic book company would steal them away. Is that true? MOLDOFF: There were two reasons they didn’t sign their names. Many writers who were writing pulp magazines at the same time would sign anonymous names. The comic books were not looked at as a great field, you know. They took a lot of abuse. A lot of parents didn’t want their kids reading comics because they were a “bad influence.” A lot of teachers were against comic books. I found that even with my children. When I went to school, neighbors would say, “Oh, I wouldn’t let my children read comic books.” And I would say, “What is wrong with comic books?” Now there are teachers who say, “As long as the children read, that’s what I want. I want them to read.”

There Were Giants In The Earth In Those Days Two of the three biggest comic strip influences on comic book artists in the late 1930s and 1940s were Milton Caniff (Terry and the Pirates) and Alex Raymond (Flash Gordon/Jungle Jim/Secret Agent X-9). The third? Harold R. Foster, of course, with Tarzan, then Prince Valiant. (Terry art for Aug. 23, 1939 ©2006 Tribune-News Syndicate or successors in interest; Flash Gordon art for Aug. 4, 1935 ©2006 King Features Syndicate.]

“Fawcett Was Never Happy, Really, With Their Comic Book Section” [NOTE: At this point there is discussion of M.C. Gaines, copublisher of National/DC and its sister company All-American Comics… and of his son Bill Gaines, who inherited EC Comics in 1947 and eventually made it a great success with horror comics and Mad. Since this largely duplicates material in the Moldoff interview in A/E V3#4, it is omitted here.] MOLDOFF: [M.C. Gaines] also did Picture Stories from the Bible. That was a hobby. He did both the Old Testament and the New Testament. But they were not big sellers. SD: But that gave the comic book a little class.

“Maybe I Was Just Loyal” MOLDOFF: I think that’s what he wanted to do. He wanted to make it as a distinguished book, more or less. They were done well; the stories were very well told.

Disney. They had some really terrific artists and talent—Mel Allen, the great sports announcer. [NOTE: As related in A/E V3#4, when Shelly left the service, editor Sheldon Mayer refused to reinstate him as “Hawkman” artist, so he “drifted around and ended up doing most of my work for Fawcett.”]

[NOTE: Next Shelly tells of conceiving and packaging the first EC horror comics for Bill Gaines, only to find himself cut out of the profits. This incident was covered in A/E V3#4, as was Shelly’s subsequent selling of the titles and concepts for such horror comics as This Magazine Is Haunted and others to Fawcett.] I did the covers and a lot of the work on This Magazine Is Haunted. They ran about a dozen issues until they [Fawcett] lost Captain Marvel [because of the lawsuit filed by DC]. When they did that, of course, it closed their whole comic book section. I believe some of the books went over to Charlton, but I never did any work for Charlton. I knew the editor at Fawcett very well—Will Lieberson. He could never believe the decision, either, that Captain Marvel was an infringement on Superman. It was such a completely different style and script. But evidently, there was some kind of a technicality that the judge awarded and told them they had to stop. Fawcett was never happy, really, with their comic book section. They were more into the other type of periodicals and had their own distribution set up. I think they were really glad to get rid of the comics, in a way. I had done Captain Midnight for many years for Fawcett, too. Captain Midnight was very popular during the war.

That was very unpatriotic of [Mayer], aside from being just a personal matter. Now, M.C. Gaines, shortly after that, made a deal with National Periodicals, and all his books with Sheldon Mayer went up to uptown. [NOTE: Gaines sold his halfinterest in All-American Comics to DC co-publisher Harry Donenfeld circa 1945.] Then M.C. started his own EC Comics—Entertaining Comics—with a new editor. And he called me up and said to come down to Lafayette Street to do some more work for him. So my relationship with M.C. Gaines was long, and he was good to me. That’s all I can say. “COMPLETE NEW TESTAMENT NOW READY!” That was the 1940s tagline for the 144-page, 40¢ edition of M.C. Gaines’ Picture Stories from the Bible, which picked up at EC where it left off at DC/AA. This edition plus an earlier one, which could be ordered together by mail as well as bought on the newsstand, contained “The Complete Life of Christ and the Story of Peter and Paul and the Early Christian Church,” in a total of nearly 300 pages. Various “issues” published earlier at DC/AA had depicted the tales of the Old Testament. [©2006 the respective copyright holders.]

You know, it’s funny. Other people make decisions and it changes the whole course of our life. They put a lot of people out of work, the whole comic book section at Fawcett. SD: So then, we get up to World War II, and you were drafted in ’44, I know. While you were in the service, where were you stationed? MOLDOFF: In Camp Crowder, Missouri. From there I was transferred to the Office of War Information in Manhattan, and from there to the Signal Corps Animation Branch in Long Island City. I stayed there until I was out, which was almost three years. I did animation for them. We did training films, maps, and a lot of things. I was in good company there. Charles Addams was there, and a couple fellows from

“I Never Heard From [Bob Kane] Again” SD: When would you say you got out of comics? And what did you go into?

MOLDOFF: I left comics in’67, after I’d been working for Bob from ’53 to ’67. In ’67, he made a new deal with DC, and I was supposed to be in on it. He said, “Once you sign this contract, Shelly, you’ve got an annuity for life.” Of course, the Batman TV program was a sensation, and the Ledger Syndicate started the daily and the Sunday, which I did for the first couple of months. I was doing everything and Bob said, “Just hang on until I get this contract.” And then one days he says to me, “Shelly, I’m sorry, but I got a new contract. DC is gonna do all the work. I’m not doing anything.” I said, “Well, what happens to me?” He just shrugged and smiled. It’s all over. So I walked out and I never saw him again and I never heard from him again, that’s it. After fifteen steady years of working, and knowing him since 1939 when he started back then. It was very strange, and what’s even stranger, Shel, is I’ll read interviews with Bob Kane and I’ve even looked at his book, Batman and Me, and I see mentions of Dick Sprang, Jerry Robinson, a lot of people. I’ve never found him mention my name anyplace.

Sheldon Moldoff Talks About Bob Kane And Other Phenomena

SD: The more people I talk to in this industry, the more I see some terrible, hurt feelings. I’ve heard horror stories of kids who’d deliver a whole comic book to an office in a building, and a guy would say, “Come back Friday for your check”—and Friday there was no office to find. MOLDOFF: Well, there were a lot of fly-by-nights, yeah. But I don’t think any of the real pros that were working got taken like that. I think that was more the young fellows that were so anxious to do things that they would gamble and take a chance on it. And then, of course, you had the other side, where editors had their fair-haired boys, their friends, and they would keep them busy. They’d keep certain writers busy, certain artists. But I think that’s a natural thing. SD: So when you got out of comics, what did you go to? MOLDOFF: Well, before ’67, I had done a lot of animation storyboarding, after Bob got this idea for a TV series called Courageous Cat and Minute Mouse and signed a contract to do 65 seven-minute episodes. He said, “Shelly, I need storyboards and [for you to] write the stories.” I said I could handle it, and I did. But that was while I was still doing “Batman.” I did all this work for him, but I couldn’t get my name on anything, see? Bob would not let you put your name on it. It’s just like he was terribly unfair to [original “Batman” writer] Bill Finger throughout his career. Bill Finger was a terrific writer. The man should have been up there and given credit. It would have not only helped his own career, but it does help your ego and your own confidence to see your name around. SD: When Bob got his Inkpot Award at the San Diego Comic-Con, he stood up and flabbergasted everybody by thanking all of his ghosts and naming several. I wish I had a recording of that, but the old New York crowd that was in the audience, they said, “Jeez, what happened to Bob? He’s suddenly giving other people credit.” MOLDOFF: He was a strange fellow. He used to say to me, “You are not only my ghost, but you’re my best friend. What would I do without you, Shelly?” And this went on for fifteen years. He didn’t pay well, but it was steady. It was security. I had my obligations. I had three children. Maybe I was scared, in a way—financially scared. I did not come from any kind of wealth at all. I struggled all my life. I lived in a very nice neighborhood which was not inexpensive, but I felt it was worth it because it was good for the family. My children went to a good school just across the Hudson. So I didn’t have spare money, you know, and there was security. All around me, I saw many a fine artist out of work. There were a lot of good artists that didn’t have steady work and they would go into other fields. This was steady work, and every now and then I would squeeze another couple bucks out of Bob. But it was by no means a generous pay scale, by no means. Maybe I was just loyal. SD: Yes, loyalty matters. When I was nineteen, I worked in the

Superman Does His Bit For Charity Shelly drew his share of “Superman” material, too! This public service page (they called ’em “institutional pages”) was done for editor Jack Schiff and ran in DC comics circa the late 1950s—or was it the early ’60s?). [©2006 DC Comics.]

art department of The Detroit Free Press, for a guy named Bill Sherb, who did photo-retouching and cartooning. He told me that, as a kid on the way home from school in Cleveland, he would pass Clarence Gray’s studio. Clarence Gray was drawing Brick Bradford [newspaper time-travel comic strip] and Bill was starstruck, so Gray eventually told him, “If you’re gonna hang around here, at least I’ll put a brush in your hand and you’ll fill in blacks.” So that’s how he started working as an assistant on Brick Bradford.

The guy who wrote the strip, William Ritt, was an alcoholic and was always behind on his continuity. So Clarence sent Bill over to Ritt’s house in a taxi to pick up the next week’s script. Ritt said, “Wait a minute, stay in the library and I’ll go and type it out for you.” He didn’t have it, so the cab meter was running, and Bill was nervous, so Ritt told Bill to look at something that was lying around in his library: “A couple of guys from Cleveland are trying to sell NEA [newspaper syndicate] a new newspaper strip. What do you think of it?” So Bill looked at these dailies and Sundays and said, “Gee, it’s an interesting approach, but the art is pretty primitive, pretty crude.” Ritt said, “Well, that’s the problem. You Kane Do! see, NEA wants to buy it, but they want to hire a Arnie Grieves sent us this sketch of Batman—one different artist. But the writer said they’re boyhood actually done, apparently, by Bob Kane. [Batman TM & ©2006 DC Comics.] friends and he’s not gonna split up the team. So we

“Maybe I Was Just Loyal” decided to reject it.” And of course, that was Superman. MOLDOFF: [laughs] That’s a good story.

SD: And it’s true. All through their lives, you know, they [Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster] were loyal to one another, which is nice to see.

“We Are Celebrities, In A Way” [NOTE: At this point, Moldoff discusses his post-comics work, which was largely dealt with in A/E V3#4: a Japanese animated series Taro, King of the Jungle and an animated feature Marco Polo, Jr., which was his idea and which was produced in Australia… his comic strip set in a senior-citizens condominium… and his work for giveaway comics published for Shoney’s Big Boy restaurants, Captain D’s, Red Lobster, Blockbuster Video, Cablevision, K-Mart, et al. There is also a brief discussion of creators’ rights.] SD: How did you discover conventions, and what do you think about them? MOLDOFF: When I retired to Florida, I kept busy, and my family is here. I had nothing to do with conventions. A fellow named David Siegel, an enthusiastic supporter of Golden Age artists and a real comic book fan, got hold of me and said, “I want to get you to San Diego. They have the biggest convention in the country. Will you come?” I think it was in ’92 that I was invited and given the Inkpot Award, and it was a wonderful experience. And people came up to me from other areas and wanted me to come to their conventions. I’ve been to seven or eight states in the last couple of years, and San Diego still seems to be number one. They’ve set the standard, really. But it made me realize that there are so many people out there that want to meet the artists, the new ones and the older ones and the ones from what they call the Golden Age and the Silver Age.

SD: One of my motivations in starting this convention was that cartoonists are entertainers who never hear the applause. You’re not there at the moment that your audience opens the book and reads it and enjoys it. So we wanted to create this public forum where the fans could meet the artists and the young kids could get a break for their career. I was very flattered when, one year, Will Eisner said to me, “Shel, these are like the salons in France in the ’30s; an intermingling of the arts and the artists.”

One If By Land, Two If By Sea… It pays to be versatile! Two “commercial comics” accounts which Moldoff had for some time were from the seafood chain Captain D’s and Shoney’s Restaurants. [©2006 the respective copyright holders.]

MOLDOFF: People come up to me and say, “Can we take a picture? I want to take a picture of my husband or my wife with you.” I’m so proud and honored. I feel like a celebrity, and I guess, in this particular field, we are celebrities, in a way. When I think of myself in my early twenties sitting—I worked on a breadboard, that’s what I used as a drawing board, and did comic books and they went out to the printers. And there were people all over the country, on farms, in rural areas, that couldn’t wait for that comic book to come out. My world only existed to the corner candy store which showed the comic book. And I never knew that out in Ohio or Texas or California, they were all waiting to see this comic book. I found that out from the conventions: that they were there, waiting just as anxiously as the people in my area to see their super-heroes. I’m thankful to you for starting San

Sheldon Moldoff Talks About Bob Kane And Other Phenomena

Diego, which I eventually went to, was honored, and opened up a whole new world. And the brightness that came out, a glow that warms my heart and my family. My family is very proud that I should be honored in so many ways. And they get tears in their eyes when they say, “Dad, you deserve it.” And it’s nice, because all they saw was me sitting there, working all these years SD: Well, keep coming back and keep coming out with new directions, because I think the new books need your input.

SHELDON MOLDOFF Checklist [This Checklist is adapted from information supplied by Jerry G. Bails from his online Who’s Who of American Comic Books – 1928-1999, formerly Who’s Who of 20th-Century American Comic Books. See display announcement on p. 24. Names or features which appeared both in comic books of that title and in other comics are not generally italicized below, e.g. Batman. Some of this information was supplied by Sheldon Moldoff. Reprint material generally not included below. Key: (a) = full art; (p) = pencils only; (i) = inks only; (w) = writer; (d) = daily comic strip; (S) Sunday comic strip.] Name: Sheldon Moldoff (b. 1920) (artist, writer) Pen Name: Shelly Education: DeWitt Clinton High School (Bronx, NY) Influences: Hal Foster, Walt Disney, Willard Mullin, Alex Raymond Member: National Cartoonists Society Animation Credits: director, executive producer, producer, & writer: Marco Polo Jr. (feature, Eric Porter) 1975; The Red, Red Dragon (feature, Eric Porter); storyboards Cool McCool [original presentation] (Sam Singer) (no date); storyboards: Courageous Cat and Minute Mouse (Sam Singer) no date; storyboards Prof. Whizdom (Sam Singer) no date; Sinbad Jr. (125 episodes) no date; Taro (146 episodes) no date Performing Arts: Idea for The Superheroes Roast c. 1979, for TV

A Moon…A Girl…A Leopard Moon Girl ran for seven issues at EC, until it metamorphosed overnight into a love comic titled A Moon…A Girl…Romance—which lasted only one issue. This Wonder Woman wannabe, written by Gardner Fox, was the brainchild of publisher M.C. Gaines, whose middle name was the basis of the “Charles” in the long-running “Charles Moulton” byline on the Amazon’s adventures after he developed the concept with Diana’s major creator, William Moulton Marston. [©2006 William M. Gaines Agent.]

MOLDOFF: Shel, I appreciate that. Thanks very much, I really enjoyed it. SD: This is a handshake. That won’t pick up on the recorder… MOLDOFF: But it’s a meaningful handshake.

“Maybe I Was Just Loyal”

Honors: Inkpot Award (San Diego Comic-Con) 1991 Syndicated Credits: Batman and Robin (d)(S) (p) 1966-67 Comics in Other Media: The Little Woman (a) True Story no date; sports and gag cartoons (w/a) no date Creator: first horror stories for EC Promotional Comics: Adventures of Shoney’s Big Boy (a) 1980-83 for Shoney’s Restaurants; advertising comics (a) 1970s-92; advertising comics (a) for Apple Institute, Atlanta Braves, Blockbuster Kids, K-Mart, Burger King, Continental Cablevision, Dairy Queen, General Nutrition Co., Los Angeles Dodgers; Traveler’s Insurance; Oakland Athletics, Quincy Steak House, Seaescape, Captain D’s, “Condo” Min and Murth (a), Red Lobster and His Pals (a) for Red Lobster Restaurants, Shoney Bear (a) 1980-83 for Shoney’s Restaurants, Shoney’s Uncle Ed (a) 1980-83 for Shoney’s Restaurants COMIC BOOK CREDITS (MAINSTREAM US PUBLISHERS): Work as Assistant: Bob Kane on Batman (bkgd/lettering) 1939-40, (ghost a) 1953-68 (some of the preceding pencils only, some inks only) Comics Shop Work: Sangor Studio (a) 1943-48

Caped Crusader Vs. Sentinel Of Liberty Since Shelly also did a spot of work for Marvel back in its “Timely” days, we’ll close out with a commission drawing done for collector Jeff Jastras, which Mr. Monster (or was it his friend Michael T. Gilbert?) brought to our attention. The amazing Mr. Moldoff is still going strong! [Batman TM & ©2006 DC Comics; Captain America TM & ©2006 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

American Comics Group: various features (a) 195257 (including Commander Battle and the Atomic Sub) Better/Standard/Nedor/Pines: Black Terror (a) 1946-48; Doc Owleye (a) 1945, unconfirmed; Fighting Yank (a) 1944; Judy of the Jungle (a) 1947; Lady in Red (a) 1943-45; Phantom Soldier (a) 1942; Princes (no other info); Tygra (a) 1947-48; Woman in Red (a) 1940s (related to Lady in Red?) D.S. Publishing: covers (a) 1948; Public Enemies (a) 1948; Underworld (a) 1948 DC Comics: All-American Men of War (i) 1954; Aquaman (p) 1961; Batman and Robin (bkgd) 1939-40; Batman and Robin (i) 1958-68; Batman and Robin (p) 1953-68, 1974; Black Pirate (a) 1941-44, (w) 1941; Blackhawk (i) 1957-66, 1968; Blackhawk Detached Service Diary (i) 1964; Blackhawk World War 2 Combat Diary (i) 1966; Casebook Mystery (i) 1953; Cliff Cornwall (a) 1940-41; Clip Carson (a) 1940; covers (a) 1940-45, 1950-57, including Adventure Comics #49); The Enchantress (i) 1966; Gang Busters (i) 1952, (a) 1956-58; Green Lantern (p) 1941 (inked by Irwin Hasen); Hawkman (a) 1940-45; House of Mystery (a) 1952, 1957-59, 1962; House of Secrets (a) 195759; illustration (a) 1992, 1999 of Batman; Jimmy Olsen (i) 1961, 1965; Justice Society of America (i) 1941; Legion of Super-Heroes (i/some p/some w) 1963-67; Lois Lane (i/some p) 1962, 1965; Minute Man Answers the Call) 1942, with reprint 1943; Mister District Attorney (a) 1957-59, 1962; My Greatest Adventure (p/i) 1957-62; Mystery in Space (i) 1965; New York World’s Fair Comics (p) 1939 (feature about World’s Fairs); Peekin’ at Pictures (w/a) 1939; Picture Stories from History 1943; public service pages (i/a) 1957-67; Robin (p) 1949; Sargon the Sorcerer (a) 1943-44, 1946; Sea Devils (i) 1964-67; Sensation Comics (a) 1942; Space Ranger (i) 1961-62, 1965; Special Crime Feature (p) 1948; Strange Adventures (i) 1967; Superboy (i) 1965, 1968, 1972; Superman (i/some p) 1961-62; Superman and Batman (i/some p) 195667; Tales of the Unexpected (p/I) 1956-58, 1960-61, 1964; Wonder Women of History (a) 1943 Eastern Color Printing: Heroic Comics (a) 1946

EC Comics: covers (a) 1948-49; Crime Patrol (a) 1948; International Comics (a) 1947; International Crime Patrol (a) 1948; Moon Girl (a) 1947-49; War against Crime (a) 1948 Fawcett Comics: Captain Marvel Jr. (a) 1945; Captain Midnight (a) 1946; covers (p) 1951-53; Don Winslow of the Navy (a) no date; romance (p) 1949; Tex Ritter (a) no date; This Magazine Is Haunted (p) 1952; True Sweetheart Secrets (a) 1950; Worlds Beyond (p) 1951; Worlds of Fear (p) 1952-53 Lev Gleason: Boy Loves Girl (a) 1954 Marvel/Timely: horror (a) 1953-54; war (a) 1953 Nesbit Comics: Surprise Adventures (a) 1955 Parents’ Magazine Press: Calling All Boys (a) 1946-47; Dig Bailey (a) 1946 Stanmor: Mister Mystery (p) 1952 Toby Press: Surprise Adventures (a) 1955 (relation to Nebit Comics, above, uncertain) Tower Comics: Undersea Agent (i) 1966

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“My Attitude Was, They’re Not Bosses, They’re Editors” Golden/Silver Age “Superman” Artist AL PLASTINO On His Long And Illustrious Career Interview Conducted & Transcribed by Jim Kealy & Eddy Zeno

orn in 1921, former “Superman” artist Al Plastino, like so many of his generation, served his country during World War II. Considered more valuable to the cause by remaining a civilian, he worked in the Pentagon’s art department. Because it had air-conditioning, a great luxury at the time, Plastino volunteered for extra duty so he could spend both days and nights there to avoid the sweltering summers of the nation’s capital. He still has some of the war posters he did to help the war effort.

For decades an employee of United Feature Syndicate, Al stepped in during emergencies, copying the styles of featured artists on several long-running newspaper strips. He did this while simultaneously working elsewhere. Other jobs included serving commercial art accounts and illustrating various features, first for the Chesler Studio, then for Funnies, Inc., and later for National Periodical Publications (now DC Comics). Plastino remembers being hired by DC sometime after Joe Shuster and Jerry Siegel departed in 1947. His first verified “Superman” work, according to the Grand Comics Database, appeared in the story “Superman, Stunt Man” (Action Comics #120, May 1948). This coincided with “The Un-Super Superman” in the May-June 1948 issue of World’s Finest (#34), and was immediately followed by “The Oracle from Metropolis” in Superman #53 (July 1948). Al was up and flying. His tenure with the Superman family lasted more than twenty years. Besides the titles listed above, Plastino had assignments on Adventure Comics, Superboy, Superman’s Pal Jimmy Olsen, and Superman’s Girlfriend Lois Lane (introducing her solo try-out in Showcase #9). He delineated Supergirl, Brainiac, and Bizarro in their first comic book stories, along with “The Legion of Super-Heroes,” before going on to produce beautiful work on the Batman newspaper strip. And so, while fellow artists Wayne Boring and Curt Swan basked in the public eye, sterling work was being done by Al Plastino, who was, and shall remain, one of the definitive Superman illustrators of all time. His work, like theirs, helped keep the Kid from Krypton

Plastino And Company (Above:) Al Plastino draws Superman, while Joe Simon (of Simon & Kirby) draws at center, and Bill Vigoda sketches Archie at a show at the 34th Street Armory in New York City, 1949. (Below:) While best-known for his work on “Superman” tales, Al has also drawn numerous “Batman” adventures. Here he gives equal time to both in a 1993 drawing. [Superman & Batman TM & ©2006 DC Comics; Archie TM & ©2006 Archie Comics Publications.]

aloft during the dark days of falling comic sales in the 1950s. Today, the mostly retired Mr. Plastino enjoys being with his wife, four children (“three girls and one boy, all successful”), and five grandchildren. He is an avid golfer and a lifelong lover of the game. Al recently drew a cartoon of the Man of Steel and Tiger Woods together which fetched $800 at auction. Contributing drawings to children’s charities and other worthy causes remains a source of fulfillment. Likely the only early “Superman” artist other than Jack Burnley still living, and the only one actively taking commissions, he can be reached at 44 Pinetree Drive, Shirley, NY 11967 by interested parties. The following interview is the result of combining various phone conversations between Mr. Plastino, Jim Kealy, and myself between mid-2005 and March 2006. Thanks to Mr. Plastino for helping to edit the interview to insure accuracy. — Eddy.

Al Plastino On His Long And Illustrious Career At the Da Vinci school we had stilllife setups and classes with nude models. I was so young, but I learned a lot. I also learned about the modern masters, the Renoirs, the Cezannes, who added color directly without the underpainting. Because these guys had worked outside, the teachers would point out how to light up a sky, and so on. When they painted scenery, there’d be more grays in the atmosphere as you drew back.

Once, at the Metropolitan Museum of Art, I was copying a Renoir (“By the It’s a Bird—It’s Two Planes—It’s Stunt Man! Yeah, But Can Superman Shoot 10 Under Par? Seashore”) for three Plastino’s first published “Superman” story appeared in This 2005 drawing by Plastino of Superman and golfer hours. This guy Action Comics #120 (May 1948). This photocopy of the splash Tiger Woods was auctioned off, with proceeds benefiting page is taken from the British Superman Annual 1954-55. Eddy watched me the a charity cancer fund. It was also turned into a poster. and Jim wish to thank the Grand Comic Book Database for the [Superman TM & ©2006 DC Comics.] entire time. His info. [©2006 DC Comics.] name was Howard Christian Chandler, and he didn’t know if I was showing off or what. [A/E EDITOR’S NOTE: Except where otherwise noted, all Turns out he was writing a book about New York. It had these material accompanying this interview was supplied by Eddy Zeno tremendous maps showing a bird’s-eye view of real estate. He gave me and/or Jim Kealy… some ultimately by Al Plastino himself.] a job painting houses on the maps. He didn’t pay me, but I loved it!

“I Started… At The Metropolitan Museum Of Art” EDDY ZENO: How’d you get started as an artist?

“Chesler…Was A Strange Guy” EZ: When did you begin your comics career?

AL PLASTINO: How I started was at the Metropolitan Museum of Art. My dad took me to the museum a lot; he’d drop me off for several hours and pick me up. People were there from Italy and France, all over the world, copying paintings on commission. Seeing them, I learned how the old masters painted in oil; they’d start with tempera first; white, then sepia. (That’s why Rembrandt’s paintings have that brownish tint.) The transparent underpainting gave a beautiful glow. Then they’d put down color after color, reds and yellows, just like copying a photograph. They had to wait for each layer to dry, then they put on linseed oil to give it a gloss. Canvas vibrating when you hit it with a brush—I used to cry, these guys could paint so great! I grew up in the upper Bronx near Pelham Manor. It was all rural in those days—nice houses. For a while, I went to the Leonardo Da Vinci Art School. It wasn’t far from home, and the other art schools were all the way in Manhattan. You’d smell the paint and clay; it was gorgeous. Once, I was working on a little sculpture. Next time I went back and couldn’t find it so I asked where it was. They said, “Oh, we threw that piece of crap out because we needed the clay.” [laughter]

“My Attitude Was, They’re Not Bosses, They’re Editors”

PLASTINO: I worked for Funnies, Inc. [Lloyd Jacquet’s comics shop], inking “Sub-Mariner” and “Captain America.” That was before the war; I was doing it on the side. I started first with the Harry “A” Chesler studio. Before that, even, I did black-&-white drawings for a magazine called Youth Today. It went out to all the high schools and had exactly the same format as Reader’s Digest. I won three prizes: two firsts and one second place. They’d give you $50 and put your drawing on the cover. They decided it would be cheaper to have me on staff, so I began doing freelance drawings for this magazine while I was still in high school in the Bronx. Around the same time, Chesler had an ad looking for black-&-white artists. I answered the ad and started working there. Jack Binder was the art director, and he only paid me $5 a week at the start, but I was glad to get it. He had me ruling lines. Jack was doing pulp stuff. Soon he had me penciling these futuristic things, and he’d ink them. Then he finally gave me some stuff to ink. Jack showed me how to use a brush to do thickand-thin lines and feathering; he taught me a lot. I got paid $45 a week and finally got up to $60. Chesler himself was a strange guy, but he had a beautiful wife and two boys. He had a house with all sorts of statues, antiques, all different styles of furniture, whatever he liked. Everything was mixed up. He had a Coca Cola machine in his living room and you had to put 5¢ in to get a Coke.

I’m A Rocketman The ever-researching Hames Ware and Jim Vadeboncoeur, Jr., sent these images of Plastino’s work for Harry “A” Chesler, who besides running a comics shop also published comics at various times. Here’s a quartet of pics, all ©2006 the respective copyright holders. (Top row:) The splash pages from Chesler’s Dynamic Comics #3 (Feb. ’42) and #13 (Jan. ’45) are strongly believed by Hames to be Plastino’s work… but Al himself, when he saw them, could not confirm that he had drawn the latter. (Dynamic Man’s costume, incidentally, inspired Roy Thomas in 1969 to give the Squadron Sinister villain Hyperion, and later the Squadron Supreme version, a cape attached only to one shoulder.)

Chesler always had a cigar in his mouth, never lit, while he’d hum in the back of the office. There were about twenty guys there, desk after desk. He wanted to keep everyone happy, so he served his artists juice. Also, we had to come in on Thanksgiving to work for half a day, but we had turkey. He’d hock his coat—anything, to make the payroll. But Chesler made millions selling reprints, everything, during the war. He began buying real estate and it seemed like he owned half of the part of New Jersey next to Dover, where the Joe Kubert school is now.

(Bottom row:) The splash page of the “Rocketman” story in Dynamic Publications’ Scoop Comics #2 (Jan. 1942). Hames says his battered copy of that issue is disappearing: “pieces of it [were] literally flaking off and flying away in the near-to-March windy breezes on my long walk to the photocopy place.” But he says he needed to make copies, if the comic were “to be preserved in any manageable form.”

Other artists there at the time included George Tuska and Rafael Astarita, who were both into lifting weights. They had me lifting but it didn’t last long. I was getting veins, so I quit. [laughs] I met Mac Raboy, who suggested that I send some of my black-&-white drawings in

Also shown is an enlarged detail from that splash, which is signed “Al Pla.” Hames reports that, even a few letters shy of a full name, this story represents “the only signed Plastino [work] at Chesler.”

Al Plastino On His Long And Illustrious Career wood model in front of me right now; back then I carried it around in a shoebox. The wings collapsed into the fuselage to become a PT boat. The tail, the fins—it was the first time it had ever been done. It was full of gears. They gave me eight extensions of the draft to work on the design, which was very radical at the time. I thought I was doing something good.

I wrote President Roosevelt and received an answer, probably from his secretary, advising me to go to In 1941 Al Plastino designed the airplane shown here. This the Inventor’s Council. The Inventor’s work got him “into the Pentagon,” and he says “that was the turning point of my whole life.” At left is the design Council sent me to Grumman [Aircraft itself; at right is the drawing Al did at the time of the Engineering Corporation]. Grumman plane and its gun turret. For the details, read what he has sent me to the Pentagon, where I saw a to say in the interview. [Art ©2006 Al Plastino.] to the Philadelphia Academy of Fine Arts. Major Shively. I was offered a Boy, was that tough to get into; I didn’t commission as a lieutenant and was realize it at the time. I sent in a drawing called “The Search,” done with advised not to take it. I stayed on as a civilian. Turned out the plane a brush, of a heavy man on a donkey, and was accepted. Then I sent wasn’t feasible because the wings were too short. This was before jet some watercolors in about two years later, and one was accepted. engines; now it would be no problem to build. They didn’t really know Ruben Moreira came to Chesler’s later. Winsor McKay, Jr., was up what to do with me so they put me in the art department. Most of the there too. [NOTE: His father is best known for Little Nemo.] Mr. work I did for the Pentagon was training manuals. At one point we Chesler had all of his father’s original drawings. were working on the B-29 bomber but didn’t know it. To keep it top secret, they had each person draw a small mechanical thing in the plane. I was just a kid and was always late. I’d eat breakfast downstairs in We had to burn our drawings with a Bunsen burner before we left each the same building. That meant when I got upstairs I had to use the day. I also learned a new silkscreen technique and did posters. bathroom. Chelser, who called me “Plasty,” said, “Plasty, I don’t mind

It’s a Bird… It’s a Plane, This Time!

you eating on my time but I’ll be damned if I’m paying you to take a _____ on my time.” [laughter] He later made me art director to get me in on time. I was still late. [As art director], imagine me telling a 30-year-old guy what to do. I almost got killed. What was I, 109 pounds soaking wet? George Tuska was a big, goodlooking guy. I remember him standing up for me. One time a guy was giving me a hard time. George called him over and, without getting out of his chair, knocked him across the room.

I don’t remember exactly when I began working for DC, but I know it was after the war. I was working at Steinberg Studios. They did a lot of work for the Pentagon. Steinberg is the one who told me about Superman. I did 48 covers for DC. I did three for Blue Bolt during the war. Arrow Publications was right there next to DC. I did five or six pulp covers, love story covers. I did the only pulp cover ever done in watercolors that was ever used. I’d meet pretty girls and ask them to model for the faces. That’s how I met my wife.

“Sometimes I Drew Superman Faces On Other People’s Books”

JIM KEALY: Which of your fellow artists did you admire?

EZ: Please tell us about the war years. PLASTINO: I have a picture of the plane I invented, whose design got me into the Pentagon. That was the turning point of my whole life. My brothers were both already in the military, one in the Air Force, one in the Tank Corps. I’d always made model airplanes and wanted to do something to help the war effort. In those days you’d take raw balsa wood, make your own plans, and build them from scratch. I was 18H , going on 19. I worked on this plane for a year and a half. The draft board became very interested in it. I have the main body of the painted

PLASTINO: Alex Raymond, who did Flash Gordon… Raeburn Van Buren, who did Abbie an’ Slats. Ham Fisher on Joe Palooka did nothing, Moe Leff did it all. When Ham Fisher committed suicide, I began helping Moe Leff with Joe Palooka. Moe was only 57 when he died. Hal Foster… the greatest, but he was arrogant. I met Milton Caniff when he was [in his 80s]… he was a great artist, too. Norman Rockwell… mild man, very nice man. Neal Adams… good artist. I’ve got four of his originals. It’s beautiful stuff. But if you look at his drawings, you get dizzy. A face here, crazy angles, action everywhere. Somebody’s always yelling. When Carmine was art director, he started that with the different panels

“My Attitude Was, They’re Not Bosses, They’re Editors”

so it doesn’t get monotonous. He was right, but it’s been carried to extremes. What about the story? I can’t follow it. [Neal Adams] was the only artist I knew who used a pen. JK: And you would use… ? PLASTINO: A brush, a Winsor & Newton Series 7, No. 3; an excellent brush made in England. I sometimes used a pen for delicate work. I used several different pens while working on Abbie an’ Slats, Joe Palooka, Nancy, Peanuts, and Ferd’nand. JK: You mentioned Rae Van Buren. PLASTINO: I worked with Rae at United Feature. I was receiving $100 a week doing backgrounds and figures. I made a good living when I was with Superman [DC], but I always kept more than one account going at the same time. I worked with great artists to learn and help by copying their styles. Rae painted with ink, if you know what I mean. A few years ago they reprinted three early “Lois Lane” stories [from Showcase #9, Aug. 1957]. I wrote Paul Levitz at DC to say this is not “Ruby’s” [Ruben Moreira’s] stuff; this is my stuff. They were saying Ruby penciled them and I inked them. I know I penciled at least one story, and I did the Superman faces in [all of] them. Ruby might have done the secondary characters (he did long faces), but I was working with Rae Van Buren at the time. He did beautiful women, so I copied his girls. When Levitz said they didn’t look like my women, that’s why. But we worked it out. The first one I was right on; he didn’t do it. Anyway, that’s the only time I worked with someone else, except when I inked “Captain America.” And sometimes I drew Superman faces on other people’s books.

The Silent And The Loud Among various newspaper strips on which Plastino worked at one time or another were the long-running strips Ferd’nand (above) and Nancy (below). [©2006 United Feature Syndicate.]

“You Wouldn’t Be Sitting Behind That Desk If [Jerry Siegel] Hadn’t Created Superman” JK: How did you get started working at United Feature? PLASTINO: I lived in Manhattan for quite a while before I got married. Dow Walling did the Sunday Skeets for the Herald Tribune. Jack Sparling did Hap Hopper, Washington Correspondent, which he later offered me (around 1943), and that’s how I came to work for United Feature. The three of us shared a studio at 43rd and Lex[ington], over Kelly’s Bar. The rent was $60 a month. We divided it three ways so we each owed $20.10. The 10¢ included toilet paper. [laughter]

Sparling tried to help me, but it didn’t sell. Also, when I had the studio, I worked for Harry Chiles, drawing pages to sell US Royal Air Tires for bikes. They appeared in comic books at the time. I did quite a few of them. JK: How long did you work for United Feature? PLASTINO: Till the end, till I retired around 1986.

Jack Sparling was so fast! He would start in the morning typing up six scripts—then he’d draw all six strips in a day, completely finished. I was pretty fast—you had to be—penciling and inking two pages more or less, in a day. I don’t think I ever missed a deadline. Dow wasn’t fast, and Jack and I would help him out a bit. Sparling later did a strip called Claire Voyant for PM, a liberal newspaper. Walling was a college man, really sophisticated, and a true Republican. He didn’t like PM and called Jack a “Communist Bastard.” [laughs] But it was a friendly thing—friendly enemies.

PLASTINO: I was first hired by [managing editor] Jack Schiff. He was one of the editors of “Superman.” Jack Schiff was a decent guy. Whitney Ellsworth was the head of the department, and I met him later. He was a nice man. When I started, I was told to draw like Wayne Boring, who’d been there for a while. Later I went to my own style. They were paying Wayne Boring $55 a page. They offered me $35. I said no. We settled on $50 a page.

I was young and tried to soak up everything at the studio. Once I tried to sell a strip about a lawyer. It was called Justin Case. Jack

I saw Wayne Boring and Curt Swan every once in a while at the office. Curt was a workhorse; he penciled all his work but he never

EZ: Who hired you at DC?

Al Plastino On His Long And Illustrious Career would say, “Whatever I give you is the best I can do.” My attitude was, they’re not bosses, they’re editors. [laughter] Later, they wanted me to work on Superboy, but I couldn’t get along with Murray Boltinoff, so I was gonna quit. But Mr. Ellsworth said, “Come work for me,” and I did. I worked on the Batman strip, which he wrote, for almost eight years. I did my best work on that strip.

Drawing Inspiration In the late 1940s Al drew art for various types of publications. At left is a 1947 scratch board illustration for a trade mag—at right, a 1949 cover of the pulp magazine Leading Love. [©2006 the respective copyright holders.]

inked. It had to be so much tighter for the inkers. That’s what killed him. Wayne Boring penciled tight, too. I never worked that hard, penciling very rough and inking my own work. That’s why, when guys tried to ink my stuff, it didn’t work. They couldn’t do it, which was good for me, because I could do the whole job at home and didn’t have to come into the office.

While I was still drawing Batman, I had the opportunity to draw Ferd’nand [a newspaper strip originated in Europe by Dahl Mikkelsen]. It was pantomime, it was cartoons, and it was great! I was doing that for 15 years. In fact, they’re still rerunning it in Europe. Mikkelsen hired me while he was still alive to help him. I loved his stuff. I took over the Sundays and dailies when he passed away, doing the gags and the drawings. It was the most difficult job I ever had, writing pantomime. I made quite a few of them about golf. During my later run on Batman, Nicky [Nick Cardy] was penciling for me because I was so busy. Nicky should’ve been born with

JK: Did you ever meet Win Mortimer, who was hired by National about the same time as you? PLASTINO: I think he was there before me; a good artist, a pleasant guy, just like Curt Swan. I think Win was Canadian. EZ: Do you remember when you first started working for Mort Weisinger? PLASTINO: No. That was a long time ago. Mort I got along with in a business way, but it was an awful time. If you shook in your boots, especially in those days, they would jump all over you. When he was very rude to [Jerry] Siegel, I told him, “You wouldn’t be sitting behind that desk if he hadn’t created Superman, you know.” I never kept my voice down. When they wanted me to do something over I

Lights—Camera—Action Comics! A movie producer tricks Superman into signing an iron-clad contract in Plastino’s first “Superman” story, from 1948’s Action Comics #120—but Supes, of course, is the Man of Steel, so guess who comes out in top at the end. Scripter uncertain. This story came out around the time the 1948 Columbia film serial Superman was being launched. [©2006 DC Comics.]

“My Attitude Was, They’re Not Bosses, They’re Editors”

(Right:) Art, minus copy, for the cover of Superman #67 (Nov.-Dec. 1950), in which the Man of Steel had a rival for Lois Lane’s affections—in pop crooner Perry Como, whom Plastino would meet later.

(Above:) A May 2005 pencil drawing executed in the 1950s style for Jim Kealy.

(Above:) Splash of Action Comics #300 (May 1963) and its famous story, “Superman under the Red Sun!”

(Above:) Splash of Superman #170 (July 1964), featuring the late President John F. Kennedy— delayed for two issues after JFK’s assassination on Nov. 22, 1963.

(Left:) Splash of Action Comics #340 (Aug. 1966). Al had signed this copy of the comic.

(Above:) A page, minus word balloons, from the 1996 graphic novel Superman: The Wedding and Beyond.

Al Plastino On His Long And Illustrious Career

Michelangelo… oh, he was a good sculptor! But he was such a laidback guy, he’d talk about things forever but never start them.

“Your Whole Life Has To Be Your Work” EZ: Which comic book artists did you hang out with? PLASTINO: George Tuska and I went deer hunting and played some golf together. I socialized with Nicky and with Carmine Infantino. I liked Carmine. Nicky and I got along great; he had a nice mother. But I was more of a loner. I tell young guys today who ask me about breaking into comics, “If you can go into a room by yourself and not think about baseball, etc….” Your whole life has to be your work. EZ: Editor Weisinger liked to put celebrities into his comics. From the late 1940s through the mid-1960s, when you portrayed folks like Ralph Edwards, Ann Blyth, Perry Como, and Allen Funt in Superman and Action Comics, did you ever hear how those stars liked your work? PLASTINO: No, but I played golf with celebrities like Perry Como, Fred Waring, and Jackie Gleason. This was at Shawnee-on-theDelaware. Shawnee was a golf course that Fred Waring owned. He was a very successful band leader at the time. He invited artists

from the [National] Cartoonists Society for an outing every June 8, on his birthday. That’s where I met Jackie Gleason. He was a guest at the cartoonists’ outing, and the next week I’d play with the entertainers at the ASCAP [American Society of Composers, Authors, and Publishers] tournament because Jackie Gleason would invite me as a guest. We played together six years in a row; he was great! Mr. Gleason called me a skinny Italian because I used to eat and eat. He was on a diet and could only watch, so it would drive him crazy. [laughs] I won the Cartoonists Society tournament sixteen years in a row, I think something that Tiger Woods will never achieve. EZ: How long did you illustrate the Nancy newspaper strip? PLASTINO: For about three years. Ernie [Bushmiller] was a very meticulous artist; drawing like him was harder to do than it looked. He was a Hollywood gag writer who started by writing for Harold Lloyd, then he went into the comics. Fritzi was his wife; she was gorgeous. Ernie was on the way out; he

“Ask Not What Superman Can Do For You…”

Smallville ’68

“My Attitude Was, They’re Not Bosses, They’re Editors”

Mi Batcave Es Su Casa Batman Sunday strips drawn by Plastino—one undated, the other for Nov 24, 1969. In the 1940s, Batman and Robin had made sporadic guest appearances on the Adventures of Superman radio show; after the success of the Batman TV series that debuted in Jan. 1966, the Man of Steel was guest-shotting in the Caped Crusader’s strip. So, in another sequence, did Aquaman. [©2006 DC Comics.]

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Wonder If Batgirl Ever Met Scooby-Doo Also prominent in the strip at the time was the new incarnation of Batgirl, who was created for the TV series. The drawing with Scooby-Doo was done later, probably for a TV tie-in? [Batman material ©2006 DC Comics; Scooby-Doo TM & ©2006 Hanna-Barbera.]

Al Plastino On His Long And Illustrious Career

And Awaaaaaay We Go…! Al loves golfing, so here’s a triptych of fairway fun: (Left to right in photo:) Al Plastino, Jackie Gleason, and music-master Fred Waring (of Fred Waring and the Pennsylvanians) at a golf outing at Shawnee-on-theDelaware, an annual event of the National Cartoonists Society. Photo taken June 8, 1957. Al won the NCS golf tournament 16 years in a row! (Center:) An illustration for Rockhill Gold Course School. You gotta get ’em young! [©2006 Al Plastino.] (Top right:) For a golf outing auction for charity, Al drew the terrific trio of Superman, Batman, and Arnold Palmer. [Superman & Batman TM & ©2006 DC Comics.]

was dying. I started with the Sundays and they had me do some dailies. I still break out in a sweat when I think of drawing the shape of Nancy’s head. I used to hold my breath when I would do the chin; if you get it wrong it looks like she has a broken jaw. I also worked on Topps bubble gum cards. I did 90 of Tarzan on one sheet of 3"x4"s. I did another 90 of Dr. Doolittle. I did Snoopy [Peanuts] for a year and a half, in case Charles Schulz died after heart bypass surgery. It was never used, and he never knew. I was writing it, too, by the way, and made Snoopy a vegetarian. When I wrote Peanuts, I realized it was not the obvious punch line, it was the not-obvious punch line that made it successful. I really got pretty good at it because it was so interesting. EZ: Have you kept a lot of your comic book and comic strip originals over the years? PLASTINO: Very little. The tragedy of my business is you never save anything. EZ: Do you like your early work on “Superman”? PLASTINO: Right now I’m looking at a story I did called “The Three Supermen from Krypton!”

(Superman #65, July-Aug. 1950). That is crap because I was still influenced by Wayne Boring. But at least you can follow the story. My faces were lousy but they were consistent. [laughs] Some of the new artists can do things I could never do. They’re really talented, but in the same story Superman’s face changes a million times. Sometimes Superman’s a fat guy, or with muscles coming out of his ears. I’m an artist and can tell when they use photos by the folds and the lighting. His character’s not defined. That’s not who he is. Also, you’ve got to be an architect, the backgrounds are so detailed. It seems like some of them are trying to outdo one another. You’re dealing with grownups and kids. I’m a grownup and I get confused. If I were an editor today, I’d be really tough. I just like clear storytelling. Christopher Reeve was Superman for me. He had the face and a gorgeous figure; not too many muscles. EZ: Were there any particular “Superman” stories you drew that are favorites?

“My Attitude Was, They’re Not Bosses, They’re Editors”

Al Plastino—And A Pair Of Heroes Al Plastino in 1982, with the portrait he painted of Revolutionary War hero John S. Hobart for the elementary school named for him in Shirley, NY—and a partial-page of studies of Superman by one of the Kryptonian’s most noted Golden/Silver Age artists. [Superman TM & ©2006 DC Comics.]

35 daughters is art director at USA Network. She works for Mother Angelica, who is on TV. They had me paint [Mother Angelica’s] portrait in oils, and the nuns have it in their chapel. I also really like acrylics and watercolors, because they dry faster. Since my retirement 18 years ago I’m as active as ever drawing recreations of my “Superman” covers and pages. Some of these drawings are auctioned off at golf outings and for charity, mostly for cancer research. I still love to play golf.

PLASTINO: The kryptonite thing was pretty cleverly done, but I guess the Jack Kennedy story [“Superman’s Mission for President Kennedy,” published in Superman #170, July 1964, after JFK’s death] was my favorite. His [Kennedy’s] secretary okayed the pencils. They wrote a very nice letter how nice it was.

Eddy Zeno authored and edited the 2002 book Curt Swan: A Life in Comics. He has long been interested in the history of DC comics and has interviewed numerous creators who have worked for the company. Previous articles have appeared in Comics Buyer’s Guide and Comic Book Marketplace.

EZ: And you still paint, as well as illustrate?

Jim Kealy lives in North West London, England. He has been a lifelong Superman and DC Comics fan and remembers first reading Al Plastino-illustrated stores in Australian black-&-white comics imported into the UK in the 1950s.

PLASTINO: Yes, portraits, figures, and landscapes; I’ve done everything. I love painting in oils. A copy of my painting of John Hobart from the Revolutionary War is in the Library of Congress. One of my

AL PLASTINO Checklist [The following is adapted primarily from information supplied by Jerry G. Bails from his online Who’s Who of American Comic Books – 1928-1999. For more information, see Sheldon Moldoff Checklist on p. 22. The information concerning Al Plastino’s doing early-1940s Sub-Mariner and drawing Dynamic Man in 1944, incidentally, was added based on this issue’s interview. Names of features which appeared in more than one title are generally not italicized below—e.g., Superman. Key: (a) = full art; (p) = pencils only; (i) = inks only; (w) writer; (d) = daily comic strip; (S) = Sunday comic strip; (bkgd) = background artist.] Name: Alfredo J. (Al) Plastino (b. 1921) (artist)

Studio (a) 1940-41

Pen Name: Al Mik (in syndication; with Henning Mikkelsen)

Centaur Comics: Rainbow (a) 1941

Member: National Cartoonists Society

Chesler Publications/Dynamic, etc.: covers (a) c. 1941; Dynamic Man (a) 1941 (possible 1944 work unconfirmed); Johnny on the Spot (a) 1945; Rocketman (a) 1941, 1946

Print Media (non-comics): Illustrator: magazines, pulps (including at least one pulp cover, 1947) Promotional Comics: advertising comics (a) 1946-50 (printed in mainstream comics); advertising comics (a) 1948 for P-F tennis shoes (ditto); Volto from Mars (a) 1944-46 for Grape-Nut Flakes (ditto) Syndicated Comic Strip Credits: Abbie an’ Slats (d? S?) (ghost a) 1957; Barry Noble, formerly Hap Hopper, Washington Correspondent (d)(ghost a) 1946-48; Batman and Robin (d)(ghost p) 1968-72; Casey Ruggles (d)(i/bkgd) 1949-50 - (ghost a) 1952, one month; Ferd’nand (d)(S)(ghost w/a) 1970-89; Hap Hopper, Washington Correspondent (ghost a) 1944-46; Nancy (d)(S)(a) 198284; Superman (ghost a) 1960s COMIC BOOK CREDITS (MAINSTREAM US PUBLISHERS) (modern reprints not included): Co-Creator (as original artist): Legion of Super-Heroes Comics Shop Work: (Jack) Binder Studio (a) c. 1940; Harry “A” Chesler Studio (a) c. 1938-45; Funnies, Inc. (a) 1941-46; S.M. Iger

DC Comics: Jimmy Olsen (a) 1961-65; Legion of Super-Heroes (a) 1962, (i) 1964; Lois Lane (p/i) 1957-60; public service pages (a) 1949-50; Superboy (a) 1957-72; Supergirl (a) 1959, (i) 1967; Superman (p/some i) 1948-68; Superman and Batman (in World’s Finest Comics) (a) 1967 [NOTE: Plastino also redrew Jack Kirby's Superman in Forever People #1 and Kirby's early Jimmy Olsen c. 1971.] Feature Comics: Green Lama (a) 1941 Magazine Enterprises: American Air Forces (a) 1944; non-fiction (a) 1944; U.S. Marines (a) 1944; war (a) 1944 Marvel/Timely: Captain America (a) 1942; The Patriot (a) 1942-43; Sub-Mariner (i) 1940s; The Vision (a) 1942-43 Novelty Comics: covers (a) 1942-43; Phantom Sub (a) 1942-43; Sergeant Spook (a) 1942 Parents’ Magazine Press: True Comics (a) 1943-46 St. John Publishing: war (a) 1944

Jerry Siegel’s European Comics! When Superman’s Co-Creator Fought For Truth, Justice, And The European Way by Alberto Becattini Prologue 1966 was not a good year for Jerry Siegel, as the 52-year-old cocreator of Superman lost two important writing accounts. His second and last stint with DC Comics, freelancing scripts for the “Superman” family of characters and other titles, ended after eight years. So did his two-year tenure with Archie Comics, where he had taken part in the ephemeral revival of such Golden Age heroes as “The Shadow” and “The Fly.” For quite a while, his only steady writing job had been, and would continue to be, with Fleetway/IPC, a colossus of British comic publishing. For that company, Siegel conjured up the suspenseful adventures of “The Spider,” a black-clad criminal mastermind whose fantastic garb enables him to spin his own web and swing from one building to another.

Jerry Siegel Always Did Like Heroes Whose Names Started With “S” The Spider, “Our Man of Mystery,” leaps into action on the cover of Lion and Champion for July 1966. Repro’d from a photocopy of the 11” x 14” original art by Reg Bunn when it was auctioned off as featuring “a character created and scripted for this English comic by Superman creator Jerry Siegel” (left). As Alberto Becattini relates in this article, Siegel wrote—but did not create—this Anglo arachnid. 1974 photo courtesy of Shel Dorf. [©2006 IPC Magazines or its successors in interest.]

aboard the “Spider” bandwagon in late 1965, under the aegis of Fleetway editor Geoff Kemp. The fact that Siegel was later given a by-line as the writer of “The Spider” (a most uncommon practice in British comics in those days) led most comic readers and historians to believe that he had first conceived the character. Fleetway did nothing to disabuse anyone of this assumption, and probably credited him because of the prestige of having the creator of Superman writing for them. An inside-front-cover note for the Italian edition of the series (most likely translated from English) informed that “The adventures of this criminal scientist […] are conceived by an American scripter who has been offered millions of dollars to write screenplays for Hollywood movies. Yet The Spider’s creator is too fond of his character and hasn’t yielded to this tempting proposition.” What seems unlikely is that Siegel turned down such an offer in the movie business, considering that he had basically been trying to make both ends meet ever since he and Joe Shuster had first left DC Comics in 1947.

King Of Crime—Reformed The Spider’s adventures were serialized in weekly two-page (later 4-page) episodes in the comics magazine Lion (later known as Lion and Champion) from June 26, 1965, until April 26, 1969. Some of these continuities were later reprinted in Vulcan (1975-76). The initial artist of “The Spider” was Reg Bunn, a solid draftsman who had been active in the British comics field since 1949. Although it was Siegel who basically built up the Spider mythos, it must be underlined that the character was not created by him. The creator of The Spider was Ted Cowan, who wrote his stories from the beginning until the January 1, 1966, episode. Siegel, then, came

The splash page of the first "Spider" story written by Jerry Siegel. Art by Reg Bunn. With thanks to Tim Barnes—who sent us the whole story on CD! Wish we had room to show more... but we'll save it for a future issue. [©2006 IPC Magazines or successors in interest.]

The Spider undoubtedly had something in common with The Amazing Spider-Man, but few people seemed to notice that—in the UK, at least. In fact, apart from those who managed to get Marvel comic

Jerry Siegel’s Eurpoean Comics!

37 assumed this name to avenge his mobster father, who had apparently been killed by The Spider). Curiously enough, some of The Spider’s foes had names which were possibly inspired by Spider-Man’s enemies. Such is the case with Dr. Mysterioso (from Mysterio), or with The Sinister Seven (from The Sinister Six). The latter was a group composed of Sylvester Jenkins (a.k.a. The Infernal Gadgeteer or Sylvanus), Limbo the Unknown, The Living Totem, The Shark, The Gas Man, The Mad Meckanoid, and Muto the MultiForm. To battle them, the Society of Heroes was formed, and The Spider briefly joined it along with Captain Whiz, Mr. Gizmo, Rex Robot, Tigro the Wild Man, Rockman, Snowman, and Professor Fred Storm.

Other Artists, Other Countries

Spiderman, Spiderman, Does Whatever A Spider-Man Can

Reg Bunn drew most of the “Spider” episodes, but at least one other British artist, John Burns, Jr., is known to have contributed to the continuities which appeared in Lion.

Cover to third issue of Italy’s Spiderman – L’Uomo books from the U.S., the vast majority of British Ragno (Nov. 1967). Art by Emilio Uberti. comic readers ignored the existence of Lee and [©2006 IPC Magazines or successors in interest.] Ditko’s web-spinner, whose first UK appearance was in Pow (1967). Also, The Spider bore a Nor was Siegel the only writer from strong physical resemblance to Star Trek’s Mr. Spock (pointed ears 1966 onwards: Ken Mannell and Donne Avenell are known to have included); but, then again, Gene Roddenberry’s legendary TV series contributed scripts, as well. Besides appearing in Lion, The Spider had only premiered in the UK in July, 1969—almost three years after its a kind of “parallel life” in Fleetway’s black-&-white, pocket-sized U.S. debut. Super Library series, where he had to face such menacing foes as The

The Spider was original in that he was (initially, at least) a criminal rather than a crime-fighter. The highest ambition of this devilishlooking character (whose real identity was never revealed) was, in his own words, to be “the uncrowned king of the world of crime.” To achieve this goal, in the first few installments The Spider helped those who would become his accomplices to escape from justice. These were “Professor” Pelham, a crooked scientist, and Roy Ordini, “Prince of Safe-breakers.” They both swore to be faithful to their new boss, but would eventually turn against him. The law was represented by Detective Lieutenant Bob Gilmore and Sgt. Pete Trask, who set off on the desperate task of catching the super-criminal and his assistants. Although New York was the main setting for The Spider’s adventures, his lair was a castle which had been moved from Scotland to the US, stone by stone. The Spider could count on many a gadget attached to his suit, including a jet pack and an apparatus to breathe underwater. Strands of “spider-matter,” to which The Spider was immune, were fired by his web gun to entangle his adversaries. After a while The Spider decided to side with the law, his main objective being an organization named Crime, Inc., which in turn hired The Exterminator and later The DeathMaster to assassinate him. Other notable enemies (most of whom were created by Siegel) were The Snake, The Android Emperor, and Spider-Boy (the latter had

Scarecrow, The Shriveller, and The Chessman. Jerry Siegel himself wrote one story for this series, which saw The Spider fight a mad scientist known as the Professor of Power. The action-packed, complete adventures that appeared in this series were drawn by nonBritish artists. There were at least two illustrators from Spain, one from Argentina, and three from Italy. The Spaniards were Francisco Cueto (who had done a lot of work for UK comics since the mid-1950s, and who even drew some horror stories for Skywald magazines in 1972-73), and a man named Ogeras, whose first name remains unknown. From Argentina came Oscar A. Novelle (who did several mystery stories for Gold Key/Western from 1969-74).

The Italian artists were Aldo Marcuzzi (who often signed his domestic works “Maral”), Giorgio Trevisan, and Silio Romagnoli. Marcuzzi (who did at least five complete pocket-sized adventures of “The Spider,” including the one written by Siegel) and Trevisan (who did two) drew their stories for “Creazioni D’Ami,” an Italian art agency which had been providing British publishers with lots of artwork; the agency had been founded in 1958 by Rinaldo Dami (a.k.a. Roy D’Ami), himself an excellent artist, with his brother Piero. Silio Romagnoli (who did the “Spider” story in Picture Library #12, dated June 1967), instead,

Truth, Justice, And The European Way secret identity, Siegel seems to have been inspired by Bruce Wayne (a.k.a. Batman), for in real life Gadgetman was the young tycoon Burt Travis, head of Travis Corporation. GimmickKid, though, was not an orphaned boy like Dick Grayson/Robin. His real name was Gary Stewart, a child prodigy who had his own private laboratory at the research facility where he officially worked as an apprentice.

seems to have worked for Fleetway through the studio/agency run in Rome by Alberto Giolitti, well-known in the US for having drawn Turok, Star Trek, and other comic book series for Western Publishing.

An Italian edition of The Spider’s Library stories was published monthly in Milan by Bianconi under the rather redundant title Spiderman—L’Uomo Ragno (“Spiderman—The Spider Man”). Twelve issues of this pocketThe “Gadgetman” stories were sized comic appeared from August 1967 drawn by two capable Spanish artists until Sept.-Oct. 1968. The Spider then My, Professor, What Powers You Have! who would do a good deal of work for became a back-up character in another “Spider” art by Aldo Marcuzzi, from the Italian pocket-sized Super US comics during the 1970s—Vicente Italian pocket monthly, Cobra, of Library #2 (1966), featuring the villain known as the Professor of Alcazar and Carlos Pino. The British which six issues were published Power. [©2006 IPC Magazines or successors in interest.] artist Geoff Campion drew most of between Sept. 1968 and Feb. 1969 by the Lion color cover illustrations Edizioni Alhambra in Milan. Simply entitled “L’Uomo Ragno,” the long story which featuring the tricky twosome. Amongst the many was serialized in this monthly was a reframed gadgets the costumed pair used to fight crime were version of The Spider’s epic battle against The gadget guns and jet shoes that enabled them to fly. Exterminator, as drawn by Reg Bunn. The Spider They had their secret Sanctum in a place “far north” also appeared, as “Spiderman” or “Spider Man,” in which they were able to reach by teleporting Germany’s Kobra (a monthly comics magazine themselves (Star Trek again?) from discs hidden at featuring several Fleetway strips, basically the their workplaces. The series only lasted six months German version of Vulcan) from 1975-76, as well as and two continuities, in which Gadgetman and Gimmick-Kid battled The Trickster and his Brain in the pocket-sized Kobra Taschenbuch in 1977-78. Man, and Doom Boy and Doom Girl, respectively. The last episode appeared in the Lion issue dated Oct. 26, 1968. To our knowledge, the strip was never reprinted in the UK, nor was it published in Whereas “The Spider” was Siegel’s best-known You Gotta Have A Gimmick, other European countries. and longest-lasting character for British comics, the Kid Cleveland-born writer also conceived a heroic duo Gadgetman and Gimmick-Kid on a which made their debut in Lion on May 4, 1968. color cover drawn for Lion by Geoff “Gadgetman and Gimmick-Kid” were a team of Campion in 1968. [©2006 IPC crime-fighters who used a huge number of gadgets By the time Gadgetman and Gimmick-Kid made Magazines or successors in interest.] to battle their enemies. As regards Gadgetman’s their last appearance in British comics, Jerry Siegel was once again in dire straits. While writing “The Spider” from early 1966 to early 1967, he had also contributed a few scripts to King Comics (Mandrake and The Phantom), and to Western Publishing/Gold Key—briefly reviving The Owl (two issues dated April 1967 and April 1968) and creating Tiger Girl (one

The Man of a Thousand Gadgets

“Super” Disney Strips!

Triptych Of Terror (Left:) The Spider seems to have been entangled by the smothering vines created by the evil Scarecrow. Art possibly by Francisco Cueto, from the Italian edition of a Picture Library story, 1968. (Center:) Here the hero celebrates his victory over Pan Therr, the Piper of Crime, by playing the fiddle—to the delight of his assistants. Art by Giorgio Trevisan, from the Italian edition of a Super Library story, 1968. (Right:) The awesome arachnid faces the prankish villain known as George Footleboy. Art possibly by Francisco Cueto, from the Italian edition of a Picture Library story, 1968. [All three art spots ©2006 IPC Magazines or successors in interest.]

Jerry Siegel’s Eurpoean Comics!

issue dated Sept. 1968), also providing light-hearted yarns starring Disney’s “Huey, Dewey, and Louie – Junior Woodchucks” and Walter Lantz’s “Woody Woodpecker.” During the same period, he had also been producing scripts for the Hanna-Barbera Studio, on such animated TV series as Frankenstein, Jr. and the Impossibles and Space Ghost. In 1968, Siegel and his wife Joanne moved to California, but Siegel had a hard time freelancing more scripts. He did manage to sell a few to Marvel (“Ka-Zar” and “The Angel” in 1970-71), and a few more to Western (another “Junior Woodchucks” yarn by Siegel, “On the Dodo’s Trail,” appeared in Sept. 1972). Yet these were evidently not enough to support him, as he had to accept a job as a clerk-typist at the California Utilities Commission. He would later reveal that at that point in his life he had been “close to suicide.” Only in 1971 would he get another steady writing job—again, for the foreign market. This happened after a chance meeting Siegel had with Mario Gentilini at the Disney Studio in Burbank. Gentilini, the managing editor of Disney’s Italian comic magazines, was there on a routine visit, whereas one may suppose that Siegel was there in hope of getting some work. Gentilini, who had also been the managing editor of the Italian comic titles featuring Superman and the other DC heroes since 1954, immediately became friends with Siegel and commissioned him to write scripts featuring the Disney characters. Over a seven-year period, Siegel penned 155 stories starring Mickey Mouse, Goofy, Pluto, Donald Duck, the Junior Woodchucks, and Uncle Scrooge, which appeared in Topolino and Almanacco Topolino, as published by Mondadori in Milan from Sept. 1972 until Dec. 1979, at a rate of about 19 stories per year (the record was set with 31 stories in 1974). Siegel’s “Italian” Disney stories were often characterized by a mixture of humor and science-fiction themes, with a peculiar taste for

“Where Does He Get Those Wonderful Toys?” (Left:) Siegel’s evil Toymaster, followed by his army of monster toys, from Topolino #922 (July 29, 1973). Art by Guido Scala. [©2006 Disney.] (Right:) The original Toyman, on the cover of Action Comics #64 (Sept. 1943). Art by Ed Dobrotka. [©2006 DC Comics.]

the weird and the bizarre. Published in May 1973, “Uncle Scrooge and the Raid through the Centuries” brought back Kryptonian memories of yore. Drawn by master Disney artist Romano Scarpa, the story has Uncle Scrooge, Donald Duck, and Gyro Gearloose traveling through time via a machine invented by Gyro. Eventually, they reach year 487,000 AD, finding out that a cosmic cataclysm is about to happen. In fact, they make it back into the machine and to 1973 just before the Earth and the Moon collide! During his Disney tenure, Siegel also created at least one memorable villain—an anthropomorphous rat from Toyland known as The Toymaster, who would eventually threaten Duckburg with his army of monster toys. Similarities between The Toymaster (who appeared in four stories starring the Disney ducks, all of them drawn by Guido Scala, between July 1973 and Nov. 1976) and Superman’s Golden Age foe Toyman (who first faced Superman in the Sept. 1943 issue of Action Comics, in a story written not by Siegel but by Don Cameron) do not appear to be purely coincidental.

(Fairly) Happy Ending By the time Siegel penned his last Disney story for Italy, the Cleveland-born writer (and, even more so, the legally blind Joe Shuster) was finally looking at his future without the anxiety and insecurity that had tormented him for decades. As most everybody knows, at the end of 1975 Time-Warner (which owned DC Comics) had at long last agreed to give Siegel and Shuster a lifelong annuity, as well as to restore their names as Superman’s creators on comic pages and on the movie screen.

Back From The Future Uncle Scrooge, Donald Duck, and Gyro Gearloose escape from the future just moments before the Moon clashes with the Earth! From “Uncle Scrooge and the Raid through the Centuries,” written by Jerry Siegel and drawn by Romano Scarpa for Topolino #911 (May 13, 1973). This collaboration is probably the reason Jerry Siegel actually drew a sketch of Superman for Scarpa, as seen in A/E #27. [©2006 Disney.]

Yet, please allow the present writer to be proud, as a European, because for a dozen years Jerry Siegel’s daily bread largely came from Britain and Italy. It is nice to know that the Old Continent helped a comics legend survive during some of the darkest moments in his life. [AUTHOR’S NOTE: Special thanks to Steve Holland, Romano F. Mangiarano, and David A. Roach for helping me build up this article… and to Roy Thomas for publishing it.]

“If You Can’t Improve Something 200%, Then Go With The Thing That You Have” Modern Legend NEAL ADAMS On The Late 1960s At DC Comics Interview Conducted by Jim Amash

Transcribed by Brian K. Morris

lter Ego #56 featured a talk with Neal Adams about the late 1960s at DC Comics, in conjunction with Jim’s in-depth interview with longtime production and coloring “guru” Jack Adler. Unfortunately, we didn’t have room to run quite all of the Adams/Amash discussion at that time, so we saved it for this issue. Part I contained most of the conversation about Adler and coloring, but Jim still had a few questions about Neal’s early DC work, which the then-artist of features such as “Deadman” and The Spectre, as well as a lot of fabulous and influential covers, generously answered… —Roy.

deadlines.” He would say, “Forget the deadlines—we have to do some covers.” So I’d say, “Okay, fine.” And then we would kick around ideas and he would do some sketches and I would do some sketches.

“Forget The Deadlines—We Have To Do Some Covers” JA: When you first started doing covers, Carmine was already cover editor, wasn’t he? ADAMS: No. When I first started doing covers, I was doing “Deadman” and a couple of things. But then, almost immediately, Carmine became what they call “art director”—which wasn’t so much “cover editor,” but if you had to define it, the term “art director” really applied to the covers. So he was art-directing covers. JA: I first saw your work on those Action “Superman” covers. The first one I remember seeing was the one where Superman was on the witness stand and a little girl accused him of killing her father. When you were doing those covers initially, whom did you deal with? What was the process like of creating the covers? ADAMS: Well, mostly I was originally doing covers on my own stuff. When Carmine became the art director, he decided I was going to either make suggestions for covers, or he was going to art-direct covers himself and I would go ahead and finish them. And I guess he chose me because I was making a difference up there. People were noticing that my work had some impact that was more dynamic than what you normally saw. So he felt that, if he was now becoming an art director, he wasn’t going to draw the covers. He needed the dynamics to be in the work that had to be done. He knew that I was interested in doing my own covers on “Deadman” and certain other covers. He needed other covers, so he would call me in and say, “Look, we’ve got to get some covers done for So-and-so and So-and-so.” I would say, “I have some

Sometimes his sketches were sufficient and fine to work off of. If I

And A Little Child Shall Lead Them… To Neal Adams Neal Adams’ photo appeared in the 1969 Fantastic Four Annual, since by then he was doing work for Marvel as well as for DC. Interviewer Jim Amash remembers Neal’s cover for Action Comics #359 (Feb. 1968). Unlike many comic book artists, Neal was always very effective when drawing children. Thanks to Bob Cherry for the scan. [Photo ©2006 Marvel Characters, Inc.; cover ©2006 DC Comics.]

“If You Can’t Improve Something 200% ...”

41 paper back and forth or whatever. JA: There’s one cover that’s sticking in my mind at the moment. It was Action #361 where The Parasite hits Superman. He says, “I gave you two black eyes—now I’m going to bust your nose.” And Superman’s coming at the reader, almost in a Kirbyish pose. That cover is striking, if you’ll pardon the pun.

had an idea I liked, I would fight for the idea. And if Carmine thought that it was a good enough idea, he had the sensibility and sensitivity to go with my idea. If he felt he had a better idea, and strongly felt it, I could have taken the option and say, “Hey, look—you know, I don’t really like the idea, I don’t really want to do it. I’ll go off and peddle my papers and do something else.” I could have done that, but usually I agreed that his concept was more powerful, even though I may not have liked the concept of the composition. You can tell when something is stronger and gets across an idea more readily, that there’s no reason not to go with that. It’s my philosophy—that if you can’t improve something 200%, then go with the thing that you have. So if I couldn’t come up with something that was so much better than Carmine’s that I could see it 200% better, then I would say, “Heck, you know, I’m cool with that. Let’s try this.” So I’d do a little variation on that maybe, but I would say that in the time that I worked with Carmine, something like a quarter of the covers were his layouts directly and the rest of them were either mine or conglomerations of his and mine, or passing the

ADAMS: That’s a perfect example of what I’m talking about, of my doing a sketch, of Carmine doing a sketch, my doing a little sketch Deadman Gets It Off His Chest over his, him doing a Not much doubt that Neal’s most memorable DC feature little sketching over during the 1960s was “Deadman,” which he inherited from co-creator Carmine Infantino after the origin mine, and then coming story. The entire saga has been reprinted in hardcover to a composition that form. The cover of Strange Adventures #213 (Aug. 1968) was neither his nor is repro’d from a photocopy of the original art, mine, but was very courtesy of Richard Martines. During that era, Neal also powerful. And if you drew the cover above right for the 5th issue of Bob look at it and say, “Well, Cosgrove’s fanzine Champion—with thanks to Dennis gee, that’s a Kirby Beaulieu. [©2006 DC Comics.] sketch,” you could practically make it a Kirby sketch. There are things that are universal, and Jack seemed to be the man sitting at the hub of that universality. So that probably is why that cover reminds you of Kirby. Look for a dynamic, find Jack Kirby. I said in an interview recently that if you look up the word “dynamic” in the dictionary, it probably says “Jack Kirby.” JA: [laughs] I wouldn’t argue a bit. When you drew a cover for a story you did not illustrate, did you read that story first? ADAMS: I would try to. I would at least try to get the gist of the story before I started drawing, because I did not like doing a cover that didn’t relate directly to the story. So there was a lot of casualness applied to that. I would try to go and sneak the story and read it before I was obligated to do a layout. JA: How often was a cover done before

“If You Look Up The Word ‘Dynamic’ In The Dictionary, It Probably Says ‘Jack Kirby’” Neal feels the cover of Action Comics #361 (March 1968) was one of his most Kirbyesque. Thanks to Bob Cherry. [©2006 DC Comics.]

Neal Adams On The Late 1960s At DC Comics

Neal Gets Mort-ified

a story was drawn? I know Julie Schwartz often based stories around covers. Did this happen to you very often back in the ’60s?

Mort Weisinger (seated) talking with fellow editor and longtime friend Julius Schwartz, in a photo that first appeared in Amazing World of DC Comics #3 (Nov. 1974). Mort retired in 1970, with Schwartz inheriting his “Superman” titles. Above are the covers of Action Comics #356 and Lois Lane #79, both cover-dated Nov. 1967. Which is the one that was done first and convinced Mort to have Neal draw more covers for him? No way to tell—but seems to us like either of them should’ve done the trick! Thanks to Bob Bailey & Bob Cherry for the cover scans, and to Jon Ingersoll for additional info. [©2006 DC Comics.]

ADAMS: It happened once in a while. What would happen is somebody would come in with a cover that had a layout. “Who is this man?” and you’d have a silhouetted figure in the middle and you’d have faces looking up at him. “Who is this man?” and have a big question mark on him. That would be an editor saying, “This is a good idea. We’re going to do a story around it. Neal, can you draw it?” Well, [chuckles] it didn’t happen very often. It happened sort-of at the beginning, but after a while, we didn’t get that. It almost seemed like there wasn’t time, so that less and less that happened. But every once in a while, one would show up.

“Mort Weisinger… Wanted A Lot Of Input On His Covers” JA: So in the case of The Spectre, did you do the story first and then the cover? ADAMS: Usually. What would happen is, as you’re winding down the stories, somebody’d say, “You know, this hasn’t got a cover.” [mutual laughter] You had to do covers. I was dragged off of stuff all the time to do covers. JA: Were you dealing with the individual editors, or were you dealing with Carmine? ADAMS: Well, Carmine would take it out of the hands of the editor at times. I don’t know that I was very comfortable with that, so I would always go and show the editor the layouts as we talked about them and try to get their feelings. Some editors didn’t care. Like Murray Boltinoff—he just provided the pages and said, “Look, I need a cover.” He would depend on Carmine and me to figure it out. Other editors, like [“Superman” line editor] Mort Weisinger—he wanted to have a lot of input on his covers. In fact, when it was suggested to Mort by

Carmine that he should let me do covers for him, he was dead set against it—just totally, totally against it. Carmine basically foisted me upon him and Mort really didn’t want me to do his covers as, in his mind, he had Curt Swan, and Swan was the best, and that’s who he was going to use. I went to Carmine and said, “It’s very clear Mort doesn’t want me to do covers for him. He’s got Curt Swan.” Carmine said, “Ah, no, I want you to do covers for him.”

I realized I was caught between two immovable forces there, and I didn’t want to make enemies of anybody, so I went in to Mort and I said, “Look, Mort….” And of course, Mort was like, you know, a tough guy sitting there, judging everybody, so just walking in the room was enough of a problem. I said, “Mort, look, I know you don’t want me to do covers for you. I get it, okay? But Carmine wants me to do covers for you. I’ll make a deal with you; I’ll do one cover for you and if you don’t like it, that’s it. I agree I will never do another cover for you.” He said, “Yeah?” I say, “No problem. No matter what Carmine says, Carmine can’t tell me what to do. I’m just trying to be cooperative. So I’ll do one cover. You don’t like it, that’s it, no more.” Mort said, “It’s a deal.” He shook hands with me. I did a cover for him; he loved it. Then he wanted me to do his covers for him from then on. JA: When Mort wanted the greater input into the covers, can you give me an idea of what his input was like? ADAMS: He would say, “I believe in story covers, I believe in balloons on the covers, I believe that has to be the story and it has to ask the question. So I don’t want a cover that doesn’t ask the question. And I don’t want a cover that doesn’t have balloons. I want people to read them.” He felt very strongly that the cover had to sell the story inside. I mean, that cover that you were talking about earlier of the little girl pointing at Superman and saying, “That man, that man killed my daddy!” Very, very powerful cover. I don’t think it’s the greatest drawing in the world, but I’ll tell you, as a cover, it’s a knockout. That’s a Mort Weisinger cover, and I think his philosophy was right. JA: Contrast and compare him with Julie Schwartz.

“If You Can’t Improve Something 200% ...” ADAMS: I don’t think Julie Schwartz wanted the subject to be the same. He wanted the person who was doing the cover to know what the story was. He never said, “Read the story”—he said he wanted to know what the story was, and the point of the story. Beyond that, he was pretty flexible. He wanted a good-looking cover. I think he would give up more story for a quality cover. That’s why I got to do so many good “Batman” covers.

“I Don’t Criticize Your Writing; You Don’t Criticize My Drawing” JA: They were superior. On the other hand, you also worked for Kanigher. ADAMS: Yeah, right. [mutual laughter] JA: And would you talk about the difference in working for Kanigher? ADAMS: Kanigher was tough, but he wasn’t a terrible pain. We had to come to kind-of an arrangement early on. I did a story for him. He was like the first guy I worked for because he always got the best artists. He got Joe Kubert, he got Mort Drucker, he just got everybody good. Every once in a while, he’d even get [John] Severin. Everybody good wanted to do the war stories, and so, when I went to DC, I wanted to

do war stories. I had met Kanigher, and I’d heard about Kanigher before. Eddie Herron almost killed him with a sword one day over a transom. I’d heard the story from Eddie, who I worked with on the Bat Masterson comic strip with Howard Nostrand, and he told me he was ready to kill Kanigher. Anyway, I’m up at DC and I handed a story in and he gives me another script. Then I come in with the story and he looks at the story, and he says, “Well, there’s some things here I’m not happy with,” and he started to criticize my artwork, and he raised his voice just a little bit. I said, “Hold on just a second. Just hold on.” I said, “I just have to have a quiet little discussion with you.” I closed the door, and locked us in. I sat down with Bob and I said, “Now look, Bob. This is sort-of the way it is: you write, I draw. I don’t criticize your writing, you don’t criticize my drawing. If that’s okay with you, we work together.” He said “Fine.” I went to the door, unlocked it, and opened it up. Everything was fine with him afterwards, and we sort-of became friends. Any time he was in the office and I was around, we’d hang around a little bit. He’d tell me stories about skiing in the Alps and his other adventures. JA: Yeah, but he was so difficult to so many people. ADAMS: Yeah, I know. But he wasn’t that difficult to Joe Kubert, and he really wasn’t that difficult to me. And I think, probably, he knew that if he pushed us too far, we’d probably punch his lights out. You know, that’s the kind of understanding it’s good to have between men, that you oughtn’t to step across a certain line, and I think he didn’t respect people that let him, to tell you the truth. If he was able to count on somebody, I think he just went ahead and did it. And if he wasn’t able to, he saw the line drawn in the sand, so he was okay. I think it’s kind-of a military thing. I’d come from a military family and I understand that perfectly. You draw lines, and if you cross another guy’s line, you just have to watch it.

“Weisinger Was Just A Mean-Tempered Guy” JA: Wasn’t Weisinger a little bit of the same way as Kanigher? ADAMS: No. Weisinger was just a mean-tempered guy. You know what he said to me one day? I’ll tell you. I said, “You know, Mort, you’re awfully nasty to some people. I mean you act awfully nasty. There’s no need for that.” And I guess he didn’t expect it and he says, “You know, I’ll tell you.” He said, “Try to imagine getting up in the morning and going to shave, and looking at my face in the mirror. Wouldn’t you be unhappy? Angry?” [pained] Ohhh … oh … ohhhh. What do you say to a guy when he says that? JA: I don’t know what you say. ADAMS: I don’t know, either. You know, you’ve got to give him that. JA: I remember, in the mid-1970s, there was an article about him in Parade and he talked about how he’d spent years going to the psychiatrists and stuff like that. And that he wanted to be like Superman, and he couldn’t, and it messed with him. [chuckles] I mean, this whole incredible thing that most people would never say about themselves in private, and certainly never in public. [mutual chuckling]

Jurassic Spark Writer/editor Robert Kanigher (seen at right) and artist Neal Adams came to an “understanding,” as related in the interview. The splash is from Neal’s entry in the “War That Time Forgot” series, in Star Spangled War Stories #134 (Aug.-Sept. 1967), probably his earliest “adventure” story for DC, after work on Jerry Lewis. Script by RK. [Splash page ©2006 DC Comics.]

ADAMS: Well, I think some people have to go to a psychiatrist to be able to say that stuff. And I think that what he said to me was an awfully strong blast of honesty, and it made me understand him a whole lot more from that point on. Some of the people that you talk about

Neal Adams On The Late 1960s At DC Comics

Coming Events Cast Their Shadow Images of the original art for two Adams DC covers, courtesy of collector Richard Martines: The Phantom Stranger (Oct. 1969) and Tomahawk #129 (July-Aug. 1970). Both are splendid, of course—but by the early 1970s, Neal was destined to become perhaps best-known for the way he and writer Denny O’Neil revitalized first Green Lantern (with the “Green Lantern/Green Arrow” series), and then DC’s #2 hero Batman. This Dark Knight drawing in marker was done by Neal at a 1999 comics convention for collector Jerry K. Boyd; thanks to Neal and Jerry. [Covers ©2006 DC Comics; Batman TM & ©2006 DC Comics.]

ADAMS: Yeah, well, I never got to know the man. And Boltinoff? Well, Boltinoff was like a cocker spaniel. [Jim laughs] I mean, he was just the nicest guy. In one of those dog-eat-dog worlds, it’s hard to know how come Murray was able to make it through, because he was just a nice guy. You didn’t get a sense that he was editing, and yet he got the job done. It’s sort-of like Dick Giordano. You never really got the sense that Giordano was editing you. He’d say—you’d tell him the story and say, “Well, that sounds pretty good, but can you make it more exciting at

that were grumpy, or whatever, I really never had any problem with. You know, honestly, everybody’s treated me awful nice. JA: But how much of that, do you think, is due to your personality and how much is due to your talent? ADAMS: [whispers] I don’t know. I have no idea. I knew with Mort, it wasn’t due to my talent at the beginning. He just didn’t want me. [mutual laughter] JA: But you did win him over and you did a lot of great covers for him. ADAMS: I just think it’s worth it to take time with folks. I hardly ever meet a bad person.

“I Never Fired Anybody” JA: If you’ve still got a couple of minutes, I’d like to ask about Boltinoff and Jack Schiff and George Kashdan. ADAMS: I never met Schiff; he was before me. Kashdan, I never worked with him. JA: But you did do covers on some of his books, so you must have done that through Carmine.

Three Blue Pencils (Left to right:) Murray Boltinoff… Jack Schiff… and late-1960s arrival Dick Giordano. Boltinoff’s photo appeared in Amazing World of DC Comics; the photo of Schiff, taken at the DC offices in the 1950s, is courtesy of “Aquaman”/”Metamorpho” artist Ramona Fradon—but we “lost” the background when the pic was printed in A/E V3#7. And Neal’s drawing of Giordano appeared in DC mags in 1973; thanks to Bob Brodsky. If you’ve seen the photos before, it’s because there aren’t that many pics around of most of the old-line DC editors—always excepting Julie Schwartz , of course. Photos of George Kashdan and Jack Miller, who’d left their editorial positions by the late ’60s, proved impossible to come up with by deadline time. Anybody out there got any they can share?

“If You Can’t Improve Something 200% ...”

45 A Fantastic Foursome Of A Slightly Different Kind A pencil sketch by Neal Adams of perhaps the four DC heroes with which he is most identified. With thanks to Neal & to Karl Nelson. [Deadman, Batman, Green Lantern, & Green Arrow TM & ©2006 DC Comics.]

the beginning?” and you’d say, “Yeah.” He’d say, “Okay, go ahead.” It was up to you to do a good job. And I guess if he didn’t like what you were doing, he wouldn’t work with you. There’s some people that just—they handle it real easy. Murray Boltinoff was easy. I never asked

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him for something that he didn’t give to me right away. “Murray, can I just do these ‘Batman’ stories at night, rather than the daytime?” He’d say, “Sure, whatever you like.” JA: Tell me about Jack Miller. ADAMS: I found him very professional, very easy to get along with, very appreciative. He was very gracious and a gentleman. I mean, even he didn’t belong. When you’re in a group of people and they all seem to do the same job, you immediately see the differences between them. He didn’t deserve to be among the pack of wolves over there. He should have worked for Esquire or something. I thought he was more sensitive and more sensible than most of those guys. JA: Well, I know that he had gotten in some kind of trouble, though. ADAMS: I don’t know if he got into trouble or somebody got him into trouble, you know what I mean. Usually, if you do something, if you have a sensitive person you’re working with, they sit you down and they say, “Look, I know you’ve been doing this, and maybe your billing is a little bit ahead of what it ought to be, and it’s a little uncomfortable and I think we want to arrange this so that this doesn’t happen any more. Let’s do that.” You don’t just come down and, you know, and kick them out. And especially if they’re—ah, well. Whatever. I’m not that kind of guy. I never fired anybody, you know. And I’ve had a bunch of people working for me. JA: [chuckles] Right, and that’s why it surprised me to hear that. I would figure the odds would be, with as many people as you’ve had working for you.… ADAMS: I’d have to fire people, wouldn’t I? I don’t do that. I find a way. There’s usually a way, somewhere. Sometimes, you can sit with somebody and say, “You know, maybe you shouldn’t be doing this. Or maybe I can help you get a better job.” And you do, and they thrive. It’s amazing.

UURGENT RGENT WARNING WARNING FFOR OR OOUR UR RREADERS! EADERS! DON’T DON’T M MISS ISS Y YOUR OUR FAVORITE MAGS! FAVORITE MAGS! We are experiencing huge demand for our recent magazines. Case in point: Back Issue #88 & #89 and Alter Ego #141 are already completely SOLD OUT, with other issues about to run out. Don’t wait for a convention or sale— order now!

BACK ISSUE #99

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Showcases GIL KANE, with an incisive and free-wheeling interview conducted in the 1990s by DANIEL HERMAN for his 2001 book Gil Kane: The Art of the Comics— plus other surprise features centered around the artistic co-creator of the Silver Age Green Lantern and The Atom! Also: FCA (Fawcett Collectors of America), MICHAEL T. GILBERT, and BILL SCHELLY! Green Lantern cover by KANE and GIELLA!

STAN LEE’s 95th birthday! Rare 1980s LEE interview by WILL MURRAY—GER APELDOORN on Stan’s non-Marvel writing in the 1950s—STAN LEE/ROY THOMAS e-mails of the 21st century—and more special features than you could shake Irving Forbush at! Also FCA (Fawcett Collectors of America), BILL SCHELLY, and MICHAEL T. GILBERT! Colorful Marvel multi-hero cover by Big JOHN BUSCEMA!

Golden Age artist FRANK THOMAS (The Owl! The Eye! Dr. Hypno!) celebrated by Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt’s MICHAEL T. GILBERT! Plus the scintillating (and often offbeat) Golden & Silver Age super-heroes of Western Publishing’s DELL & GOLD KEY comics! Art by MANNING, DITKO, KANE, MARSH, GILL, SPIEGLE, SPRINGER, NORRIS, SANTOS, THORNE, et al.! Plus FCA, BILL SCHELLY, and more!

Unsung artist/writer LARRY IVIE conceived (and named!) the JUSTICE LEAGUE OF AMERICA, helped develop T.H.U.N.D.E.R. AGENTS, brought EC art greats to the world of Edgar Rice Burroughs, and more! SANDY PLUNKETT chronicles his career, with art by FRAZETTA, CRANDALL, WOOD, KRENKEL, DOOLIN, and others! Plus FCA, MICHAEL T. GILBERT, BILL SCHELLY, and more!

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BATMAN: THE ANIMATED SERIES’ 25th ANNIVERSARY! Looks back at the influential cartoon series. Plus: episode guide, Harley Quinn history, DC’s Batman Adventures and Animated Universe comic books, and tribute to artist MIKE PAROBECK. Featuring KEVIN ALTIERI, RICK BURCHETT, PAUL DINI, GERARD JONES, MARTIN PASKO, DAN RIBA, TY TEMPLETON, BRUCE TIMM, and others! BRUCE TIMM cover!

100-PAGE SPECIAL featuring Bronze Age Fanzines and Fandom! Buyer’s Guide, Comic Book Price Guide, DC’s Comicmobile, Super DC Con ’76, Comic Reader, FOOM, Amazing World of DC, Charlton Bullseye, Squa Tront, & more! Featuring ALAN LIGHT, BOB OVERSTREET, SCOTT EDELMAN, BOB GREENBERGER, JACK C. HARRIS, TONY ISABELLA, DAVID ANTHONY KRAFT, BOB LAYTON, PAUL LEVITZ, MICHAEL USLAN, and others!

ROCK ’N’ ROLL COMICS! Flash Gordon star SAM J. JONES interview, KISS in comics, Marvel’s ALICE COOPER, T. Rex’s MARC BOLAN interviews STAN LEE, PAUL McCARTNEY, Charlton’s Partridge Family, David Cassidy, and Bobby Sherman comics, Marvel’s Steeltown Rockers, Monkees comics, & Comic-Con band Seduction of the Innocent. With MAX ALLAN COLLINS, JACK KIRBY, BILL MUMY, ALAN WEISS, and others!

MERCS AND ANTIHEROES! Deadpool’s ROB LIEFELD and FABIAN NICIEZA interviewed! Histories of Cable, Taskmaster, Deathstroke the Terminator, the Vigilante, and Wild Dog, plus… Archie meets the Punisher?? Featuring TERRY BEATTY, MAX ALLAN COLLINS, PAUL KUPPERBERG, BATTON LASH, JEPH LOEB, DAVID MICHELINIE, MARV WOLFMAN, KEITH POLLARD, and others! Deadpool vs. Cable cover by LIEFELD!

ALL-STAR EDITORS ISSUE! Past and present editors reveal “How I Beat the Dreaded Deadline Doom”! Plus: ARCHIE GOODWIN and MARK GRUENWALD retrospectives, E. NELSON BRIDWELL interview, DIANA SCHUTZ interview, ALLAN ASHERMAN revisits DC’s ’70s editorial department, Marvel Assistant Editors’ Month, and a history of PERRY WHITE! With an unpublished 1981 Captain America cover by MIKE ZECK!

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THE WORLD OF LEGO MECHA! Learn the secrets and tricks of building mechs with some of the best mecha builders in the world! Interviews with BENJAMIN CHEH, KELVIN LOW, LU SIM, FREDDY TAM, DAVID LIU, and SAM CHEUNG! Plus: Minifigure customizing from JARED K. BURKS, step-by-step “You Can Build It” instructions by CHRISTOPHER DECK, BrickNerd’s DIY Fan Art, & more!

The legacy and influence of WALLACE WOOD, with a comprehensive essay about Woody’s career, extended interview with Wood assistant RALPH REESE (artist for Marvel’s horror comics, National Lampoon, and undergrounds), a long chat with cover artist HILARY BARTA (Marvel inker, Plastic Man and America’s Best artist with ALAN MOORE), plus our usual columns, features, and the humor of HEMBECK!

KIRBY: OMEGA! Looks at endings, deaths, and Anti-Life in the Kirbyverse, including poignant losses and passings from such series as NEW GODS, KAMANDI, FANTASTIC FOUR, LOSERS, THOR, DEMON and others! Plus: The 2016 Silicon Valley Comic-Con Kirby Panel, MARK EVANIER, STEVE SHERMAN & MIKE ROYER panel, WALTER SIMONSON interview, & unseen pencil art galleries! SIMONSON cover inks!

FIGHT CLUB! Jack’s most powerful fights and in-your-face action: Real-life WAR EXPERIENCES, Marvel’s KID COWBOYS, the Madbomb saga and all those negative 1970s Marvel fan letters, interview with SCOTT McCLOUD on his Kirby-inspired punchfest DESTROY!!, rare Kirby interview, 2017 WonderCon Kirby Panel, MARK EVANIER, unpublished pencil art galleries, and more! Cover inked by DEAN HASPIEL!

ONE-SHOTS! We cover Kirby’s best (and worst) short spurts on his wildest concepts: ANIMATION IDEAS, DINGBATS, JUSTICE INC., MANHUNTER, ATLAS, PRISONER, and more! Plus MARK EVANIER and our other regular panelists, rare Kirby interview, panels from the 2017 Kirby Centennial celebration, pencil art galleries, and some one-shot surprises! BIG BARDA #1 cover finishes by MIKE ROYER!

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BRICKJOURNAL #48

REED R EED CRANDALL CRANDALL Illustrator of the Comics

, g q y comic art. Using an illustrator’s approach on everything he touched, Crandall gained a reputation as the “artist’s artist” through his skillful interpretations of Golden Age super-heroes DOLL MAN, THE RAY, and BLACKHAWK (his signature character); horror and sci-fi for the legendary EC COMICS line; Warren Publishing’s CREEPY, EERIE, and BLAZING COMBAT; the T.H.U.N.D.E.R. AGENTS and EDGAR RICE BURROUGHS characters; and even FLASH GORDON for King Features. Comic art historian ROGER HILL has compiled a complete and extensive history of Crandall’s life and career, from his early years and major successes, through his tragic decline and passing in 1982. This FULL-COLOR HARDCOVER includes NEVER-BEFORE-SEEN PHOTOS, a wealth of RARE AND UNPUBLISHED ARTWORK, and over EIGHTY THOUSAND WORDS of insight into one of the true illustrators of the comics.

(256-page FULL-COLOR HARDCOVER) $49.95 • (Digital Edition) $19.95 ISBN: 978-1-60549-077-9 • S SHIPS HIPS JJULY ULY 2017 2017

It’s

GROOVY, baby!

Follow-up to Mark Voger’s smash hit MONSTER MASH!

All characters TM & © their respective owners.

From WOODSTOCK to THE BANANA SPLITS, from SGT. PEPPER to H.R. PUFNSTUF, from ALTAMONT to THE PARTRIDGE FAMILY, GROOVY is a far-out trip to the era of lava lamps and love beads. This profusely illustrated HARDCOVER BOOK, in PSYCHEDELIC COLOR, features interviews with icons of grooviness such as PETER MAX, BRIAN WILSON, PETER FONDA, MELANIE, DAVID CASSIDY Y,, members of the JEFFERSON AIRPLANE, CREAM, THE DOORS, THE COWSILLS and VANILLA FUDGE; and cast members of groovy TV shows like THE MONKEES, LAUGH-IN and THE BRADY BUNCH. GROOVY revisits the era’s ROCK FESTIVALS, MOVIES, ART—even COMICS and CARTOONS, from the 1968 ‘mod’ WONDER WOMAN to R. CRUMB. A color-saturated pop-culture history written and designed by MARK VOGER (author of the acclaimed book MONSTER MASH), GROOVY is one trip that doesn’t require dangerous chemicals!

(192-page FULL-COLOR HARDCOVER) $39.95 • ISBN: 978-1-60549-080-9 • DIGITA

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“It Only Took 40 Years… To Be The Steve Roper Artist!” Artist FRAN MATERA Talks About Quality—And Not Just The Comics Company! Interview Conducted & Transcribed by Jim Amash

ran Matera may be better known as the artist of the comic strip Steve Roper and Mike Nomad, but he also drew his share of comic books. From “Doll Man” to romance, crime, Western, and war comics, from Treasure Chest to “Sunset Carson” and The Hulk, Fran’s unerring draftsmanship has delighted both readers and editors, as he accumulated some interesting experiences. More in the Milton Caniff school than the Raymond/Foster school, Fran’s fun, energetic style lent itself to a variety of features, as you’re about to see—with thanks to Geoff Brenneman for sharing Fran's contact info with me, resulting in this 2003 interview. One of the true nice guys in cartooning, Fran sells his Steve Roper originals on eBay and donates 10% of the proceeds to ACTOR, the organization that benefits comic book people in need of financial assistance [see p. 46 for more information]. A grand gesture from a grand guy! I asked him a question…and we’ll start right out in medias res with his answer…. —Jim.

“World War II Took Me Away” FRAN MATERA: I was into cartooning by my first year in high school. One day, a salesman representing the Federal Art Schools correspondence course knocked on our door and told my mother that her son had won the “Draw Me” contest. My brother ’fessed up and admitted that he had drawn the prize-winning entry. He then told our mother that he wasn’t interested in taking the course. That was my clue to yell out, “Hey, mom, can I have that course?” She paid for the course, which I took during my high school years. I desperately wanted to do a newspaper strip. I had also collected comic books and had my favorites, like the “Green Lantern,” Reed Crandall’s “Blackhawk,” and others. After school, I’d go to the public library to read the comics, going through all the different newspapers they had. I loved Alex Raymond’s Flash Gordon and Alfred Andriola’s Charlie Chan, drawn in a Milton Caniff-like style. I wrote a fan letter to Andriola, requesting a Charlie Chan original, and that was the beginning of my association with him. This was 1943, just before I went into military service. In my “thank you” note to Andriola, I enclosed some of my art samples, which he liked. He asked me to come down from

Matera And Friends Fran Matera, in an early-1980s photo taken when he was drawing the then-new Legend of Bruce Lee comic strip. He’s flanked by a montage of studies (dated 1982 on the sheet) which he did of Lee at the time— and a sketch he generously did for interviewer Jim Amash of Doll Man, a super-hero he drew briefly for Quality Comics in the early ’40s. Unfortunately, we didn’t have any vintage “Doll Man” art of Fran’s we could positively identify—but clearly, the ol’ Maestro Matera still has the magic touch! [Bruce Lee art ©2006 Bruce Lee or successors in interest; Doll Man TM & ©2006 DC Comics.]

“It Only Took 40 Years... To Be The Steve Roper Artist...”

Bridgeport, Connecticut, to New York City, where he was. I brought more samples with me, and he said, “How would you like to try doing some more art samples? There might be an opportunity for you.” Andriola sent me to Quality Comics in New York, where I worked for a couple of months. But World War II took me away. When I came back Ghost Of A Chance in 1946, Andriola asked me to In 1946 Fran ghosted the popular Kerry Drake newspaper comic for its creator, Alfred Andriola. Supplied by the artist. come and see him. By this [©2006 the respective copyright holders.] time, he was drawing Kerry Drake, from Allen Saunders’ scripts. Allen Saunders was looking for someone to draw Steve Roper. I went home and looked at some old comic books Roper was appearing in. I drew a couple of strips, which I still have, showed them to Andriola, who said, “These are good. How would you like to work for JIM AMASH: Let me back up for a moment and ask you about me?” I told him I would. Andriola’s comic book work. You remember his “Captain Triumph” for Quality Comics? Andriola never created anything on his own. The stories were thumbnailed on newsprint, cut to the size of the original art, and the MATERA: Yes, I do. It was nice work, but I didn’t have any part in figures were drawn as stick figures. I’d take those home to Connecticut doing that. and come back with a whole week of penciled Kerry Drake strips, dailies and Sundays. JA: Did he create that feature?

“There I Was At Quality, Doing ‘The Doll Man’ And ‘The Clock’”

I wanted to ink the strip, and Andriola said, “Okay, you can ink everything but the hands and faces.” That was the standard at the time when people employed ghost artists. I did this for a couple of weeks, until I decided to show off. I inked a couple of the character heads, and Andriola said, “Okay, fine.” I asked if I could keep doing that, and he said I could. I did that for five weeks for $75 a week. He had a letterer, whose name I’ve forgotten, and a background man, too. I did the finished pencils and some of the inks, and then Andriola gave the strips to someone else to polish up. I stopped doing this because the Associated Press hired me to take over Dickie Dare. I went to see Coulton Waugh and his wife, Odin. Waugh was writing and doing a lot of the art, and his wife worked on it for a while, signing it “Odin.” Her brother lettered. Gradually, both Coulton and Odin wanted to taper off the doing the strip so they could paint, and I took over. Odin’s brother continued to letter it, but he didn’t live near me, so I decided to take that over. But I realized I wanted to do something else, because I was only making $120 a month, even though that was good money in 1947, ’48.

MATERA: He might have... I don’t know. I didn’t help him on his comic book work. But Andriola got me into Quality Comics, as I said. There were two guys editing there: John Beardsley and George Brenner. I was still in high school. JA: I see. By the way, when were you born? MATERA: December 9, 1924. I remember meeting a guy who was working for them and he was crying because he had to go into the service. I wish I could remember who he was. But anyway, Quality was losing people left and right to the war, so I was hired on the spot. JA: Was Gill Fox editing when you came up there? MATERA: He may have been, but I think he was on his way to the service, though he did show me around when I first came up to Quality. What I remember is that there was a conflict between Beardsley and George Brenner. They bickered about who was the head honcho. One of them once pushed the other through the door with his shoulder, so it was obvious that they were having problems working together. By the way, Harry Chesler’s son Jay was working there, and

Artist Fran Matera Talks About Quality

Harry would pop in every once in a while. Once, Harry told me to come to his office and do some work for him, which I did, though he never paid me. I’m not even sure he actually published that work. There I was at Quality, doing “The Doll Man” and “The Clock.” I met Will Eisner there, who was in uniform. He was a warrant officer in the Army. Beardsley introduced me to Eisner and asked him, “Why don’t you show Fran how to do hair?” I don’t know why he said that, because I didn’t have trouble drawing hair. Eisner said I was doing fine, and that he didn’t have to show me anything. JA: Sounds to me like he was playing up to Eisner. [Matera agrees.] I’ve heard Beardsley was difficult to get along with, primarily because he was an alcoholic. MATERA: Yes, he was. I didn’t deal with Beardsley much. They didn’t involve me in their problems. I was just a kid working there. JA: Did either Beardsley or Brenner have power over the other, or were they editorial equals? MATERA: That’s what they were fighting about. To me, it seemed like one wanted power over the other. I never saw Beardsley being chummy with anyone. Beardsley was the bigger man of the two, and Brenner wasn’t small. The rift started after I had been working there for a couple of months. I don’t remember much about George Brenner, though. One day, publisher Busy Arnold (the man who actually hired me), said to me, “You live in Connecticut. How would you like to work in Stamford?” That’s where I met Lou Fine. I had already been seeing Lou Fine’s Spirit, which was being inked by Alex Kotzky. They were working in Stamford, and that’s where I was assigned to go—to the 8th floor of the Gurley Building. This room was the same one that Alex Raymond had worked in when he was doing Flash Gordon, though he was gone by the time we were working there. There were three drawing boards in the room, which was a corner room. Lou Fine’s drawing board was against the window and Alex Kotzky sat right behind him. I sat at the board across the room.

admiration from Gill to me. Gill was and has always been a very nice man. Same with Kotzky.

“I Never Saw Lou Fine Erase Anything” JA: While you were at Quality, did you meet Jack Cole? MATERA: No, I didn’t. And I really wasn’t much of a talker. I was only 18 years old, happy to be there, working and learning from the people I met. Cole had a touch of greatness about him...such a creative genius! I saw his pencils when John Belfi was inking his backgrounds in the office. Cole was a tight penciler. In fact, if Cole had used a darker pencil, Quality could have printed from those pencils. That’s how tight they were. Everything was there; Belfi didn’t have to add garbage cans in the alleys because Cole had already drawn them. You ever heard of Al Stahl? He was a funny guy who did his own stuff. Very funny stuff. He was always working. You know, the idea was to do as many pages as you could, and Al Stahl was a very productive artist. I also remember meeting Tony DiPreta there. You know what I remember about Lou Fine’s work? He drew with a mechanical pencil, and I never saw him erase anything. He knew where everything needed to go. Once he’d start drawing a panel, he kept on going. By the time he was halfway done, he’d laid everything out. All the penciling was graying down that paper, so now he had a half-tone illustration. And then, Lou took that fine point mechanical pencil and outlined his images. It seemed as though he never took the pencil off the paper while he drew. Then he’d hand that page to Alex Kotzky, sitting behind him, and Kotzky would ink that page with a big, fat Japanese brush.

JA: Why were you sent there? MATERA: Because I was living in Bridgeport, and Stamford was halfway between where I lived and the Quality offices in New York City. I used to go to New York and pick up my work and then go home to work. They wanted to make things easier for me, travel-wise. Martin DeMuth was a lettering man working at the Quality offices. I remember he and his wife used to vacation in Mexico. He lettered the pages without ever ruling guide lines, using a Speedball point. He could letter a couple of pages during the time I was at lunch. It was amazing just how fast he was! He was making good money because he was so fast, and I was making $15 a page for pencils and inks and happy to have it. Reed Crandall was making the top rate there, which was about $25 a page. I also remember seeing Al Stahl and Paul Gustavson at the office, though I didn’t get to know them. JA: By the way, you mentioned drawing “The Clock.” Did you know George Brenner had created that feature and may have owned it, too? MATERA: Then that’s why he gave me the feature. Whoever had drawn it may have left, and George gave the assignment to me. I also did a couple of Gill Fox’s “Poison Ivy.” He was good buddies with Alex Kotzky. After the war, when I joined the National Cartoonists Society, I ran into Gill and Alex. They said, “Hey, you’re moving up, doing Dickie Dare for the Associated Press.” There was an envious

The Clock Strikes Twice “The Clock,” maybe the first masked crime-fighter created for comic books, was the brainchild of George Brenner, but Fran Matera took over the art chores for a short time in the early ’40s. This nice sketch he drew for Jim Amash hails from 2003. [Art ©Fran Matera; The Clock TM & ©2006 the respective TM & copyright holders.]

“It Only Took 40 Years... To Be The Steve Roper Artist...”

A Japanese brush comes to a fine point, but it’s not flexible as a regular Winsor-Newton is. Kotzky constantly washed out his brush; he never loaded it up with ink. That kind of brush gave you a wide black ink line that a regular brush couldn’t, but it took a lot of control, because the brush hairs lay flat on the page when inking. I can still see the image of how those men worked in my head. I remember how quiet Lou Fine was. He’d just work quietly, with very little conversation, with that shy smile of his. One time, I was up there, and Lou and Alex had already had a little breakfast, and I wanted to go out for lunch. Lou said, “Look, you can go out to eat anytime you want. You don’t have to ask us. We’re not timing you here.” Well, I was just a young kid and felt I had to ask permission to go have time to eat. Many times, we’d go out to lunch together. I admired Alex Kotzky’s inks. He was younger than Fine, but older than me. We got along very well. I was lucky that I was a young guy who was able to draw. I could sit down and do it. None of my pencils ever went to someone else to ink. By the way, who drew “Doll Man” before me? I seem to remember Reed Crandall did some work on that character. I loved Crandall’s figure work, though I never met him. JA: Will Eisner created that feature, but Lou Fine, Reed Crandall, and Al Bryant were the early artists.

Battle Star Galexo No Matera “Clock” or “Doll Man” art at hand, but here’s another super-hero he drew daily and Sunday in 1974-75 for the “overseas” market: Galexo, the “World-Wide Crime Fighter.” Supplied by Fran Matera. [©2006 the respective copyright holders.]

MATERA: Al Bryant! He’s the guy who was crying when he got his induction notice. JA: Considering the emotional problems he suffered, I can’t say I’m surprised. Do you remember who wrote your scripts? MATERA: Oh, no. JA: You didn’t sign your work at Quality. Were you told not to? MATERA: I just assumed we weren’t supposed to. For years and years, I didn’t sign anything I did in comic books.

“Simon And Kirby Were Working As They Talked To Me” JA: By the way, didn’t it seem odd to you that Jay Chesler worked for Quality and not for his father? MATERA: I never thought about it. I’m sure they got along with each other well enough, and Jay dressed nice, like a businessman. He was a real good-looking guy. JA: Do you think he could have been spying talent for his father, while he was working there? MATERA: I’m sure he probably was; it wouldn’t surprise me if he was

A Living Doll, Man After Will Eisner created “Doll Man” in 1939 for Quality’s Feature Comics, as one of the earliest super-heroes, a goodly number of artists drew that Mighty Mite at one time or another. Among them were Reed Crandall, Lou Fine, Al Bryant, John Cassone—and Fran Matera. This splash, from a 1964 IW reprint, is probably from a post-WWII issue (judging by cars shown in the story), so doubtless isn’t by Matera—but Ye Editor, who always loved “Doll Man,” never minds printing a page of the feature. [Doll Man TM & ©2006 DC Comics.]

Artist Fran Matera Talks About Quality

doing that. Out of the blue, someone—it had to be Harry Chesler—told me to go down to Tudor City and see Simon & Kirby, who were doing “The Boy Commandos” for DC. Simon and Kirby had their drawing boards back to back, handing pages off to each other. I inked nine pages of a “Boy Commandos” story for them. JA: Why would Chesler send you to Simon & Kirby? MATERA: That’s a good question. I don’t know. I was living in a YMCA when I was down in the city, and went home to Bridgeport for the weekends. Harry invited me up to his apartment, where he lived with his mother and father. I remember spending a night there, instead of going to the “Y.” He asked me to gather up some stuff and show it to him. I thought, “Well, maybe I’ll get to do a book for him.” He was gathering up material from a lot of people. I guess Jay was behind me going to see Harry; I really don’t remember the details.

“You Are The First To Hear The News” JA: So what did you after that? MATERA: My brother secured an application for a radio school in Chicago, which was a plus to his education. I went with him and enrolled in the Chicago Art Institute on a pay-as-you-go basis. I studied anatomy three days a week in the figure drawing classes. A few months after my brother got his radio degree, we headed back home to volunteer in the Marine Corps.

Three weeks into boot camp, I was sent to the public relations department, and found myself on a golf course. I became the art staff at Paris Island, though Just Wild About Harry other artists were soon there. Harry S Truman autographed the sketch (above left) But I wanted to get into the war, Fran drew of him while he was part of the President’s instead of doing the newspaper JA: But Chesler wasn’t packaging work for Simon & Marine Corps honor guard on the voyage to the work and spending afternoons Kirby. Seems like an odd thing to do. Potsdam Conference in Europe in August 1945. Seen at playing golf. I couldn’t brag right is a photo taken a few years back for a Florida MATERA: You’re right. I can’t explain it. I remember about that after the war to my newspaper of Fran with samples of his art, including that it was Joe Simon I talked to first. Simon and Kirby girlfriends. [laughter] My public the Truman drawing. Thanks to FM for the copies. were working as they talked to me. They handed me relations officer thought I was [Sketch ©2006 Fran Matera.] those pages to ink, and I went home and did them. They nuts. But things happened and I were producing a lot of pages. never faced any combat. I did go to Pottsdam on the heavy cruiser Augusta, as an honor guard to President Harry Truman, and later got It was Jack Kirby I talked to when I brought the finished pages in. to draw his portrait. I still have it and Truman wrote on it, “To P.F.C. Kirby said, “You don’t have to detail all the airplanes. What does an Fran Matera, a very complimentary picture. Harry S Truman.” airplane have? Wings, a tail, a fuselage, cockpit and a motor over here and there... and that’s it! That’s an airplane.” [laughter] It didn’t have He signed this drawing on August 5, 1945, and he already knew the to be a specific plane; that’s how they got it done. That’s how they atom bomb was about to be dropped on Japan. He didn’t let it out to made airplanes, and to this day, if I have to draw a helicopter...well, I anyone, especially not to Joseph Stalin, whom he disliked. The next don’t have to see an actual helicopter. There are all different kinds and day, I was in the mess hall when Truman was eating. An officer came in you can go crazy picking out what kind to use. I sit down and I draw a and whispered in Truman’s ear. Truman clattered his tray, stood up, and helicopter. I’ll give it struts and the thing that goes behind the rotor and announced, “You are the first to hear the news,” and he told us that we the fin that goes up with a propeller on the end. That’s a helicopter! I had just dropped an atom bomb on Japan. learned how to think about these things from that conversation with Jack Kirby. He taught me a great lesson. JA: And that sounds just like something Jack Kirby would have said. So, were the pages you inked drawn by Jack? MATERA: Well, they were handing pages to each other all the time, which I thought was unique. They were both penciling and inking. What they handed me was a pencil job. I remember that the pencils were tight—nothing sketched out. Jack was hunched over his board, working and smoking a cigar; he didn’t talk much, but they had a radio going. I remember that Jack was writing the story as he drew it. Simon and Kirby had a great style and everything was flashy. They had a way of drawing that made everything look rounded out; there were no flat areas. And they were busy! JA: Well, they knew they were going into the service and were turning out as much as they could before they left. Maybe Chesler was aware they were looking for help, so that could be why he told you to go talk to them. He was trying to help them out. MATERA: That’s probably what happened.

“I Didn’t Want To Leave Anything To Chance”

JA: What a way to learn about that! Okay, I’m looking at what you’ve done, career-wise, and you did Dickie Dare from ’47 to ’49. Then you did Mr. Holiday from ’52 to ’53. but in between and during all that, you still managed to draw comic books. MATERA: That’s right. I worked for St. John Publications and Famous Funnies, which was the first comic book company I worked for after the war. Steve Douglas was the editor there. He was a nice guy, and I fixed him up with a girlfriend who lived in New York. We really respected each other. He had two guys working for him at Famous Funnies, which was located at 5th Avenue and 42nd Street, on the sixth floor. I did a lot of double-page spreads for Heroic Comics, some of which I wrote. I also did a lot of romance stories, which were fun to do. JA: Steve Douglas had a drinking problem. Were you aware of this at the time?

“It Only Took 40 Years... To Be The Steve Roper Artist...”

Fran Takes A Holiday Fran drew the Mr. Holiday strip in the early 1950s; the writer was Chad Kelly. This is the strip for Tuesday, Dec. 26, 1950; sorry it was trimmed a bit at left on our photocopy. [©2006 Geo. Matthew Adams Syndicate or successors in interest.]

MATERA: No, I wasn’t. I’d see an occasional hint that he’d go off to have a drink. In those days, I was a young, naive guy. I didn’t notice these types of things. I was just grateful to be working. They had nice offices, with a couple of drawing tables. I didn’t work in the office though. I don’t remember the names of the two guys who were working for Douglas. I used to put in the word balloons for the letterer. I wanted to make sure my pages balanced out correctly, so that the reader could easily follow the action I didn’t want to leave anything to chance. I didn’t have to get the pencils approved first, so I’d leave with an assignment and return with the complete art job. By sketching out the word balloons, leaving proper room for the letterer, I made his job easier. I tapered off working for them because I got the Mr. Holiday strip. By the way, Mr. Holiday was slightly based on the movie Miracle on 34th Street. We quit that strip because the syndicate (George Matthew Adams) didn’t have much of a sales force to promote us, and we needed to make more money than we had been getting on the strip.

53 Emperor’s Clothes.” I looked at an illustrated book of the story and used those illustrations as reference. I didn’t think of it as stealing; I just needed the reference. The editors called me into the office and said they couldn’t pay me for the work because it would have infringed on the other publisher’s copyright. So that was it for me working there.

In 1957, I got the job drawing the Nero Wolfe strip. Mike Roy had been doing the strip. Evidently, the strip was going to be canceled, but Mike Roy had a contract to do it for another six months. I didn’t know about this, so when I came up to the syndicate’s office, we met. Nero Wolfe’s sidekick was Archie Goodwin, and Roy modeled him after the editor. They let me sign the strip, which read “by Rex Stout and Fran Matera,” though I doubt Stout actually wrote the strip. The editor was a cagey guy and didn’t tell me that I was hired only to finish out Mike Roy’s contract. Back to comic books: in 1950, Chad Kelly, who later wrote our strip Mr. Holiday, and I needed some work, so we went to Charlton. They had been doing a lot of magazines, but very few comic books. Ed Levy was the guy we talked to when we started. Chad and I started doing

JA: Tell me about working for St. John. MATERA: I did some nice covers for them. I did Fightin’ Marines and lots of romance stories, too. They had a woman editing there, but I can’t remember her name. She was attractive, a typical New York gal. She liked my work and we got along well together. She may have been the wife of the publisher, but I can’t swear to that. I also worked for Ziff-Davis; Jerry Siegel was the editor. They assigned me to draw “The

An Ex-Marine Draws Fightin’ Marines Matera’s cover for St. John’s Fightin’ Marines #4 (Feb. 1952). Thanks for the scan to Ken Quattro, who’s currently finishing up a study of the St. John comics company for an early issue of Alter Ego. Also seen, courtesy of the artist himself, is the splash of a story from that issue. [©2006 the respective copyright holders.]

Artist Fran Matera Talks About Quality

“Sunset Carson” for Charlton’s Cowboy Western comic. We also did some other stuff for them, but I can’t remember what all we did.

“I Didn’t Like The Operation At Charlton” JA: Who was the editor at Charlton when you started? MATERA: It was either Pat Masulli or Al Fago. I’m pretty sure it was Al Fago. A lot of guys, like Sal Gentile and Dick Giordano, came in later. We always turned in finished work, never needing approvals for either scripts or art. Chad and I packaged the stories ourselves. But I didn’t like the operation at Charlton. The guys who owned the place had unsavory reputations and actually met in prison. Levy and his brother did a lot of work for that company. I heard John Santangelo had a few Mafia connections, too. They didn’t pay well, either.

A little later, there was a party honoring Governor [Henry Cabot] Lodge and his wife, Francesca. She was going to Italy to be an ambassador. The newspaper editor in Bridgeport, Connecticut, asked me to draw a cover for the party’s leathercovered guest book, which I agreed to do. When I went to the party, who do you suppose I met for the first time but John

Western Sunset In the early 1950s, Fran reunited with writer Chad Kelly on the “Sunset Carson” feature for Charlton’s Cowboy Western comic book. Sunset, of course, was a movie cowboy. If Roy and Gene and Hoppy were the “A” team, and guys like Rocky Lane and Monte Hale did “B-movies,” Sunset must’ve been doing “Cmovies.” Still, A/E’s editor recalls the actor being friendly and personable at a personal appearance in the late 1950s at the Palace Theatre in Jackson, Missouri, where Roy the Boy was an usher. [©2006 the respective copyright holders.] Oh, and a thank-you for the scans to Michael Ambrose, who also blew up bylines for Matera and Kelly, from various Charlton stories. Michael edits and publishes the great fanzine Charlton Bullseye. For info on how to score a copy, visit their website at www.charltonspotlight.com.

“It Only Took 40 Years... To Be The Steve Roper Artist...”

Sick Humor When Joe Simon’s Sick moved to Charlton, Fran did a bit of work for the Mad-style magazine. Here are the top tiers of a two-page spread from #109 (April 1976), the first Charlton issue, with thanks to Ramon Schenk. [©2006 Joe Simon.]

Santangelo? He came up to me just like they do in the movies, and said, “Do you think that you could put my name in that book?” He wanted to get in with them somehow, but I had to tell him I didn’t have the authority to do that. It was the only time I had met him. I remember watching Steve Ditko draw comics in the office. He sat there, penciling one panel at a time, completely finishing it before he’d start on another panel. There were other artists who worked there, too. When I started with Charlton, none of the artists worked in the offices. I only saw Ditko that one time. I do remember that he had tuberculosis. A woman named Angie who worked there said, “He’s not long for this world.” I’m glad that she was wrong and that he’s still living and working. In the 1970s, George Wildman was there, doing comics and education books for Charlton. He was editing, writing, and drawing. I also knew Sal Gentile, who I went to high school with. I emphatically recall sitting in the lunch room with him, watching him draw. He’d spend that time drawing figures, studying anatomy, trying to understand how the human figure worked. I was in awe of him. That was the only way I knew him; we were quiet friends, not close ones. As the years went by, sure enough, there he was: an editor at Charlton. He worked his way up because he understood the nature of how comic books worked. I did wonder why he wasn’t drawing. He never did any kind of art at Charlton. I remember him as a quiet, laid-back type of

Strip Mining Along the way, Fran tried his hand at developing a few comic strips on his own, including strips [from top to bottom] titled Classified Clarence, For Students Only, Lucky, and O. MacDonald. These sample dailies popped up recently in a Heritage Comics auction, and were downloaded from its archives section for A/E by sharp-eyed Dominic Bongo. See Heritage’s ad on p. 47. [©2006 Fran Matera.]

guy who kept to himself. Of course, at one point, Dick Giordano became an editor there.

Artist Fran Matera Talks About Quality

He’d been working for the company for years, and I’m not sure about this, but he may have been Sal’s assistant before becoming a full-fledged editor. I remember much later that Dick Giordano set up a studio in Derby, Connecticut, and along with Frank McLaughlin did a lot of comic book work. One time, he got in touch with me and asked if I’d break down a couple of stories for him. I did the breakdowns on 8H" by 11" pages, and Dick said, “Why didn’t you draw them up the regular size (10" by 15")?” I didn’t know that’s what he wanted me to do. I thought I was just supposed to do guides. But I wasn’t interested in working this way. I preferred to do the entire job by myself, and I was busy anyway, so that was all I did for Dick. I was grateful that he asked me to help him out. We’ve always had great mutual respect for each other and have had a very long friendship. I remember Dick used a Winsor and Newton #4 brush, because he once said, “Anyone who inks with a #3 brush or less, is a sissy!” [laughter]

Buried Treasure Matera did a passel of work for the Catholic comic Treasure Chest. (Clockwise from top left:) Splashes for a pair of adventurous “Chuck White” stories from TC Vol. 18, #4… and a lighter-weight cover and a splash for TC Vol. 26, #1 (Oct. 1970). The switch in styles shows Fran’s famous versatility. [©2006 the respective copyright holders.]

JA: What do you remember about Pat Masulli and Al Fago? MATERA: Not much, because I didn’t hang around the offices. Chad and I delivered work, and then we left. I was too busy to spend a lot of time there. I didn’t regard Masulli as a friendly guy, but I have to say I didn’t try to get to know him, either. I liked Al Fago, but here again, it was all business, and I can’t say I knew anything about him. JA: Tell me about Treasure Chest. MATERA: That was a big part of my career. I started out doing filler pages. One day, they asked me to do “Chuck White,” both covers and stories. I worked for them from 1960 to 1972. Reed Crandall came in after I started and did a lot of work. Joe Sinnott and Dick Giordano worked for them, too. I recommended Dick to the editor, whose name was Joe Schaller, who lived in Ohio. I did everything for Treasure Chest by mail. Treasure Chest comics were distributed to Catholic schools all over the world. They weren’t on newsstands, except for a brief while in the 1970s. They were given away for free in the schools. I did a story a month for them and they paid about $100 a page. It was good money. While working for them, I moved to Atlanta, Georgia, and shared an

apartment with my brother. We had a good time living there. I worked for Treasure Chest until they disbanded. It was too bad, because it was a very successful venture. Backing up a bit, I did a job for Dell, though I don’t remember anything about it. I also did a few things for Classics Illustrated, which was fun. I didn’t do a whole book, just a few fillers.

“It Only Took 40 Years... To Be The Steve Roper Artist...”

“No Piecemeal Work For Me” JA: You also did some work for Al Stenzel. MATERA: I sure did. When Johnstone and Cushing folded, Al acquired the remains and continued to supply services to J&C’s list of clients. Before I left Connecticut, I worked for Al on several things, including strips for Boy’s Life on “The Tracy Twins,” “Pee Wee Harris,” and “Scouts in Action.” When I left, Frank Bolle took some of that work over.

57 newspaper strip. I saw them and they looked great, as you’d expect, but it never got syndicated. They had the same problem we had: it was rejected because newspaper editors didn’t like the amount of violence in the strip. Before we did the Bruce Lee strip, Sharmon and I tried to sell a newspaper strip based on Dolly Parton. King Features was interested, but one of Dolly’s spokesmen said ,” No,” claiming that “Dolly doesn’t need the money.” Well, I guess that was true enough.

Right after the Bruce Lee strip failed, I did In 1978, I did a few things for Marvel. I a strip titled Can You Solve the Mystery? It inked John Buscema on Tarzan and did some was based on a paperback series of mystery Hulk comics, too. I talked to Jim Shooter, stories published by Meadowbrook and he gave me ink work. The money was Publishing Company. The North America much better than it had been in the old days, Syndicate got us off to a great start. We so I thought I’d do some of it. I didn’t enjoy started off with 200 newspapers, but the doing it at all. The reason was that I’d get a copyright owner pulled out by demanding call once in a while and would be asked to do more money than the syndicate was willing five or six pages. Then the editor would call to pay. After a year, we were out! me and say, “Fran, I’m trying to keep my records straight. Tell me what pages you have JA: How did you get the Steve Roper and there.” I’d say, “I have 7, 8, 9, 12, 17, and 20.” Mike Nomad strip? Public Safety There were four other guys doing the other An effective Matera cartoon, supplied by the artist. pages and I didn’t think much of this way of MATERA: Artist Bill Overgard quit, so [©2006 the respective copyright holders.] working. To me, you should start the job writer John Saunders, Allen Saunders’ son, from scratch and see it through until the end—on deadline. No asked me to take over in 1984. And John and Allen didn’t get along. piecemeal work for me. I felt like a piece of machinery and it affected The syndicate wasn’t happy with Allen Saunders’ work and wanted me. That was it for me and comic books. John to take over. But Allen wrote until he was about 92. Of course, it was funny to me to be working on Steve Roper, because Alfred I was busy anyway, ghosting the strip Rex Morgan, M.D. I did Andriola was going to put me in touch with Allen Saunders all those everything there but the writing. I didn’t care that my name wasn’t on years ago, before he asked me to work for him. So, it only took about it. I made good money on it. One day, I told them to get another guy, 40 years, but I finally got to be the Steve Roper artist. And I’m still at because it was taking all my time. I never worked as hard on anything it! as I did on Rex Morgan, which I did from 1975 until about 1979, when I moved down to Florida. That’s when I started doing the Bruce Lee strip for the Los Angeles Times Syndicate. They loved my work on it. The writer, Sharman Divono, knew martial arts and we really clicked. Our Bruce Lee was a movie actor, not a killer. That’s what sunk the thing, because the syndicate took all the blood and guts action out. I did this in 1982 and 1983. I made the decision to cancel the strip because my heart wasn’t in it anymore, since we weren’t allowed to do it the way it should have been done. The theme of martial arts was a turn-off for the editors, and the small amount of newspapers we were in made it unprofitable and unpractical to continue. By the way, sometime in the 1970s, Milton Caniff and Noel Sickles did some samples for a Bruce Lee

A-Ghosting We Will Go A Sunday strip for Rex Morgan, M.D., ghosted for Frank Edgington. [©the respective copyright holders.]

Artist Fran Matera Talks About Quality

Strip-a-Rama Three more comic strips, supplied by Fran— clockwise from top left: Working with writer Jim Lawrence, Matera drew this Indiana Jones Sunday in the early 1980s. [©2006 the respective copyright holders.] From 1982-83 Matera drew, and Sharman Divono scripted, this comic strip about the deceased kung fu star Bruce Lee… but newspaper readers (or at least newspaper editors, who choose the strips their readers get to see) found it too violent. [©2006 Bruce Lee or successors in interest.] Later, he illustrated another strip, Can You Solve the Mystery? The Sundays were selfcontained puzzles, while the dailies told a continuing story. [©2006 News America Syndicate or successors in interest.]

“It Only Took 40 Years... To Be The Steve Roper Artist...”

FRAN MATERA Checklist [See p. 24 for more information about Jerry G. Bails’ Who’s Who of American Comic Books – 1928-1999, from which this Checklist is adapted. Some information updated by Frank Matera via Jim Amash. Key: (a) = full art; (p) = pencils only; (i) = inks only; (w) = writer; (d) = daily comic strip; (S) = Sunday comic strip.] Name: Francis (Fran) Matera (b. 1924) (artist, writer) COMIC BOOK CREDITS (Mainstream US Publishers): Education: Correspondence Art Institute

Comics Shop/Studio: Chesler Studio (a) 1943, some fillers

Influences: Hal Foster, Alex Raymond, Milton Caniff, Al Capp, Bud Fisher

Charlton Comics: crime (a) 1958; Fightin’ Marines (a) 1975-76; Speed Demons (a) 1958; Sunset Carson (a) c. 1950-51; Teen-Age Love (a) 1973; various features (a) 1954-59

Print Media (non-comics): Illustrator – magazines: Hi-Life 1958 Syndication (comic strips): Can You Solve the Mystery (S)(a) 198485 for News Group Chicago; Dickie Dare (d)(S)(a) 1947-49 for Associated Press; Kerry Drake (asst a) 1946-47 for Publishers Syndicate; The Legend of Bruce Lee (d)(a) 1982-83 for Los Angeles Times Syndicate; Little Annie Rooney (ghost a) mid-1950s, a few months for King Features; Mister Holiday (a) 1952-53 for George Matthew Adams Service; Nero Wolfe (d)(a) 1957 for Columbia Features; Rex Morgan, M.D. (ghost a) 1975-79 for Field Enterprises; Salty (w/a) 1980s self-syndicated; Steve Roper and Mike Nomad (d)(S) 1985-86 for News America Syndicate, 1987-2004 North America Syndicate; Young Ray Bold (a) c. 1955

DC Comics: Boy Commandos (i) c. 1943, for Simon & Kirby Dell Publications: Maresella (i) 1963 Eastern Color Printing: Heroic Comics (a) 1953; romance (a) c. 1946-52 George A. Pflaum (publishers of Treasure Chest): Chuck White (a) 1960-67; covers (a) 1957-67; non-fiction (a) 1957-67; Space Pioneers (a) 1966-67 Gilberton: Classics Illustrated Special Issues (a) c. 1959 Marvel Comics: Hulk (i) 1978; Tarzan (i) 1978 Quality Comics: The Clock (a) 1943; Doll Man (a) 1943 St. John Publishing: Fightin’ Marines (a) c. 1951-52; romance (a) 1955 T.S. Denison & Co. (publishers of Treasure Chest): Chuck White (a) 1967-72; covers (a) 1967-72; non-fiction (a) 1967-72 Ziff-Davis Comics: romance (a) 1952

Steve Roper, Mike Nomad, Doll Man—and Fran Matera Fran sent Ye Ed the above caricature of himself, looking happily retired—for in 2004, shortly after this interview was conducted, Steve Roper and Mike Nomad finally ended. That comic strip started out in 1936 as the humor strip Big Chief Wahoo—gradually evolved into the more serious adventures of the urbanely adventurous Steve Roper—only to see the rougher Mike Nomad muscle his way onto the masthead after being introduced in 1953. The 2003 Sunday above, written by John Saunders, shows Matera can still handle action. [Caricature ©2006 Fran Matera; Roper/Nomad art ©2006 North America Syndicate, Inc.]] And Ye Editor much appreciated the penciled drawing of Doll Man studies Fran generously sent, just as this interview was going to press! [Doll Man TM & ©2006 DC Comics.]

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Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt!

Russ Manning –– Pt. 2 By Michael T Gilbert It’s always fun to compare an artist’s early work, brimming with raw potential, with his later art. Amidst the awkward drawings and stylistic experiments, one often glimpses hints of future greatness. Such is the case with Russ Manning (19291981). Manning’s first published drawings appeared in a handful of science-fiction and fantasy fanzines between 1947 and 1951. Russ turned pro in 1952 when he began drawing “Brothers of the Spear,” a back-up strip in Dell’s Tarzan comic. His first installment appeared in Tarzan #39 (Dec. 1952), and he continued for an impressive 14-year run, ending in Tarzan #156 (Feb. 1966). Russ also drew “Tarzan” himself in 1952, for a never-published 3-D comic. The story appeared two years later in Western’s March of Comics #114. Manning also illustrated the Tarzan

Above left: Science, Fantasy and Science Fiction Vol. 1 #2, July 1948. Above right: Science, Fantasy and Science Fiction Vol. 1 #1, April 1948. Below: Science, Fantasy and Science Fiction Vol. 1 #1, April 1948.

Russ Manning –– Part II

syndicated strip, providing dailies from 19671972, and Sunday strips from 1967-1979. With the benefit of hindsight, it’s clear to see how these early drawings chart Russ Manning’s future career path. His sf illustrations, often drawn within the limitations of crude mimeo printing, quickly blossomed into awardwinning art for Gold Key’s Magnus - Robot Fighter comic in the early ’60s, as well as the Star Wars syndicated strip from 1979-1980. And, of course, his Burroughs-inspired fan art proved to be an ideal training ground for his later Tarzan work. Manning also drew numerous TV comics and movie adaptations for Dell, including Roy Rogers Comics, Annie Oakley, Sea Hunt, 77 Sunset Strip, Ricky Nelson, and Ben-Hur. Compared to his more polished pro work, the casual reader may find these drawings a bit rough. But a closer look reveals that, almost from the start, Russ Manning was destined for greatness.

Above: Fantasy Advertiser, Vol. 3 #1, May 1948. Left: Science, Fantasy and Science Fiction Vol. 1 #1, April 1948.

Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt

An Index of Russ Manning’s Fanzine Artwork (done prior to his days as a professional):

Fantasy Advertiser, Vol. II #4, Nov. 1947 Fantasy Advertiser, Vol. II, #5, Jan. 1948 Fantasy Advertiser, Vol. III, #1, May 1948 Fan Artisan, #1 May 1948 – Manning’s own fanzine The National Fantasy Fan, Vol. 7, #3, June 1948 Scientifantasy, Winter 1949 A Fan Artist’s Portfolio, Luna Publications, n.d. [1949] (features 10 artists’ work, including Manning’s) The Fanscient, #11 1950 Science, Fantasy, and Science Fiction: The Fanzine of Information and Education, Vol. 1, #1, April 1948 Science, Fantasy, and Science Fiction: The Fanzine of Information and Education, Vol. 1, #2, July 1948 Science, Fantasy, and Science Fiction: The Fanzine of Information and Education, Oct. 1951

Russ Manning art from Burroughs Bulletin, 1956.

Russ Manning: Tarzan Critic! by Ray Cuthbert Collector Robert Thoms once asked Michael Kaluta, “How would you compare Manning’s approach to Tarzan … to [that of] Foster and Hogarth?” Kaluta replied, “Foster was real life; Hogarth was cinematic; and Russ Manning’s, what I saw of it, was brilliant made-for-TV. Not in content, mind you, but using the entertainment metaphor, Manning’s had the closeness and the lighting of a TV movie.” Manning himself was not reticent about criticizing the Tarzan artists. In an article entitled Tarzan Countdown, written for The Burroughs Bulletin (first series) #14 in 1963, he gave these opinions: “Jesse [Marsh] comes the closest to Burroughs and the universal Tarzan, Hogarth blasts us with a strong, forceful image, and St. John shows us an unique Tarzan. Jesse Marsh’s Tarzan is a massive monolithic figure more primeval Cro-Magnon than English Lord, as if the boy’s early environment overshadowed his heritage and imprinted more of the animal on the man. Jesse Marsh

Burne Hogarth

“Hogarth’s Tarzan seems to wander away from Burroughs. Dynamic, strong, visually exciting and full of superbly drawn action; still, Hogarth’s drawings are too stylized in a manner that never seems real.

Russ Manning –– Part II

“St. John’s Tarzan is a romantic in the 19th century tradition. Fanciful, imaginative, and not of this world, we’d feel an undefined something missing if St. John had never drawn the ape-man.

“Celardo… suffered from terrible scripts—and his drawing is stiff and unimaginative.”

Rex Maxon J. Allen Saint John

John Celardo

Ruben Moreira (Rubinor)

“Maxon never seemed to clean up his drawings—Tarzan had a harder time swinging through all the black ink smudges than he did through the foliage.

“Rubimor’s Tarzan was an attenuated, sickly neurotic in a fetid atmosphere.

Dan Barry

“Barry was just too young, or inexperienced… his Tarzan is a poor copy of Hogarth.

“Lubbers rushed it. Bob Lubbers

Hal Foster

Mr. Monster’s Comic Crypt

(Right:) Russ Manning at his drawing board, working on Tarzan.

Russ wasn’t afraid to speak his mind, was he? Our thanks to Ray Cuthbert for his invaluable research, as well as Bill and Sue-On Hillman, whose Burroughs website contains a wealth of Russ Manning history: http://www.erbzine.com/mag8/0830.html. The Russ Manning photo on the right originally appeared in ERB-dom #47, published and edited by Camille Cazedessus. For examples of Russ’ later work, check out Dark Horse’s great Magnus Robot Fighter and Star Wars collections. Next Issue: Yes, fans, it’s twice the fun as Mr. Monster uncovers still more… Twice-Told Tales! Best wishes,

A Comic Fandom Archive Special Multi-Part Series

The Forgotten ’50s: Will Comics Ever Again Be As Exciting As EC? Concluding A 1966 Panel With Ted White, Bhob Stewart, & Archie Goodwin Part VI of “1966: The Year Of (Nearly) THREE New York Comicons!”

by Bill Schelly Introduction

Panel Transcribed by Brian K. Morris

ast issue, as part of this series (begun in A/E #53) on the three comics conventions held in Manhattan between mid-1966 and very early 1967, we printed the first half of a three-man panel on comic books of the 1950s. The intrepid panelists, who had actively read and collected comics during that decade, talked especially about why those produced by EC (Entertaining Comics) were different from those that came before them and after they were discontinued following the 1954-55 advent of the Comics Code Authority. Could EC’s spirit of innovation embodied by the work of Harvey Kurtzman, Bernard Krigstein, and other EC artists ever return—and, if it did, would there be any comic book readers around to appreciate it? We re-commence at the mid-point of the discourse on EC and the Comics Code being made by panel moderator Ted White:

the early ’50s, and they’re the most frightening clippings. I take them out about once every two years and look at them. They’re examples of mass hysteria, of boobism on the rampage. They’re about the bookburners and the censors who have no idea what they’re burning and don’t care, and these are the people who almost killed the field. And they didn’t care about whether or not whether a man like Jack Kirby could get work anywhere else, or whether or not anything would survive, or the people involved whose careers they would be destroying. It’s not important to them and it never has been.

TED WHITE: The Comics Code Authority is a valuable thing to the extent that it probably did save the comics field. Comics probably would have been wiped out with the exception of Classics Illustrated and Dell, who’d managed to keep aloof from the whole argument and managed to stay out of the Code. All the rest of them probably would have been wiped out. The Kefauver Committee was investigating; there was all kinds of stuff going on.

Today we do have people like Jack Kirby giving us some really fine stuff. We even have work by Wally Wood, Al Williamson, and others. But we don’t have EC. The reason we don’t have EC [is that], back when the Code was formed, it was formed to kill, primarily, two companies: Lev Gleason and EC. These two companies were considered by an uninformed public to be the worst offenders in the field. It was felt that they gave the worst image of the field. Lev Gleason was publishing some pretty strange comic books. He was publishing Daredevil at that time, he was publishing “Crimebuster” [in Boy Comics] and a number of others, [including] Crime Does Not Pay. These are pretty violent. I’ll tell you that as a kid, I did not enjoy them. As an adult, I went back and read them and I was amazed at what seemed to be a very strange character to them. They were really writing those stories, I think, for slum kids. I think they made sense within the atmosphere of a big city slum. I grew up

I’ve got a file of newspaper clippings which Bhob Stewart over here sent me when he was still in Texas, back in

I See, You See, We All See—EC! Our three 1966 panelists were so EC-centric (though not without ample reason) with regard to the Entertaining Comics group and its 1954-55 battles with the Comics Code Authority that we figure this image makes a perfect visual intro to this piece. The EC symbol and Code seal are surrounded by (clockwise from bottom left): Ted White (seen here with then-wife Robin circa 1967)—Bhob Stewart (in a vintage photo taken by well-known photographer Henry Wessel)— and Archie Goodwin, in the Benson Con pic we showed last time. Hey, you think the writer/editor of Creepy and Eerie had nothing to do but pose for pictures? [EC symbol TM & © William M. Gaines Agent.]

A 1966 Panel With Ted White, Bhob Stewart, & Archie Goodwin offices of my beloved EC. By this time, Picto-Fiction was starting to go out, of course. I think PictoFictions were in something like the second or third issues, and the last issues of the comic books were on the stands. I was told about many of the examples which I brought up here this afternoon and I was shown them. And I heard about how it was directly from the publishers. The real and absolute reason why EC stopped publishing comics was that their distributor folded from under them and left them with a great number of unpaid bills. But they could have weathered this if it had been at all profitable for them. It was not profitable, due to pressures that were brought to bear against them.

“Perhaps It Tried, Captain! Perhaps The Comics Code Wasn’t Intelligent Enough To Hear it!” The splash of “Food for Thought” from Incredible Science Fiction #32 (Nov.-Dec. 1955), with art by Al Williamson—with apparently a sizable assist on the lush backgrounds from fellow great Roy G. Krenkel—was one of the most stunningly beautiful ever to appear in an EC (or other) comic book. But Ted White reports that the Comics Code wouldn’t let the humans be killed by the intelligent tree on page 7—so an 8th had to be hurriedly added. While agreeing with Ted that the Code people were being a bit thick, Ye Editor must admit that at age 14 (and even today), he prefers the tale as printed, not because of its “happy ending” but because of its memorable tagline. [©2006 William M. Gaines Agent.]

in a small town. This meant nothing to me. But there was a level of characterization in those comics which I missed back then. I think I was wrong to sneer at them. Russ Jones tells me that the death of Lev Gleason Comics put several people out of work, like Charles Biro. It is certainly true that the Comics Code Authority put these people out of business, because they were making too much money to voluntarily go out of business otherwise. Now let me tell what the Comics Code Authority did to EC. The Comics Code Authority quibbled with everything EC did. It was a deliberate campaign of harassment. Al Feldstein or Bill Gaines could tell you about this. It happened that, right around New Year’s 1956, I was in New York, and as a faithful young fan, I paid a visit to the

To give you one example, they had a beautifully illustrated story by Roy Krenkel and Al Williamson which was set on an alien planet. Its splash panel was so beautiful that the color artist only put a pale yellow on it, didn’t want to destroy the detail that Roy Krenkel had put into it. It was a lush jungle alien-like scene, one of the most beautiful I’ve ever seen in a comic book, and it had flying worms or flying eels or something. These were strange, alien creatures. They had two sets of wings, one about a third of the way back on their body, and another about two-thirds of the way back. The Comics Code Authority wanted this changed. “This is a travesty of angels,” they said. [audience laughs] The story involved an Earthman trying to see if there was any intelligent life on the planet. They appeared to fail. They’d fall asleep beneath a great tree. This tree is, as a matter of fact, the only intelligent life on the planet. It swallows them. End of story, typical EC ironic twist. Uh-uh, not in the story. The Comics Code Authority says, “You can’t have the Earthman lose.” An eighth page was written because they didn’t want to throw out all this beautiful artwork. An eighth page was written to give a happy ending to let the Earthman get back out again, and a page of advertising was lost because that was a page more than scheduled, editorially, for the magazine. Now that advertising loss hurt, because that’s what really pays for these things. Dimes don’t pay for them, advertising does. This is one example.

“Judgment Day” was another example. The last issue of Incredible Science Fiction was being put together. An entire story was rejected by the Comics Code Authority and Bill Gaines said, “Oh, for God’s sake. We’re not going to do up an entire story for what we know is going to be our last issue. Let’s reprint something. Let’s find something that’s so safe they won’t dare touch it.” He turned to what’s a classic EC story, “Judgment Day.” Don Thompson told you about it. He submitted this to them. They said, “It would be swell, if you will just change him to a white man.” Bill Gaines hit the roof and threatened to simply send out a lot of press releases about how bigoted these people were. Now, I don’t think the Code Authority really was bigoted. I don’t think they applied many of the restrictions to other companies. DC has notori-

The Forgotten ’50s: Will Comics Ever Again Be As Exciting As EC? ously gotten away with a great deal, but they weren’t after DC. I don’t care what they want to say now in platitudinous forms. They were after EC. Anyone at EC would tell you about the niggling details they nitpicked at. They let “Judgment Day” go through uncut because they realized that if they made a fuss about it, they were going to lose face and lose face in a big way. [NOTE: Art from and a synopsis of “Judgment Day” appeared in A/E #56.] Another thing they did involved a comic book which EC published called Psychoanalysis. You could imagine all the eight-year-olds running out to buy that. [audience laughs] They had about five or six issues. It had sessions that ran through it, continuing characters, and each issue they had a session and they’d get a little further through psychoanalysis. This happened very soon after Dr. Linder’s [book] 50-Minute Hour became popular, and it was an attempt to popularize on that. It was in EC’s “New Direction” series, which was an attempt to recoup after they’d voluntarily folded their horror comics line. Bear in mind they were now no longer publishing horror comics. The things which had been found objectionable, they had voluntarily erased, and yet they were being policed in this fashion. One of the characters who was undergoing psychoanalysis was Jewish. The entire problem of his neurosis and psychosis was the persecution which he had received from bigots for being a Jew. The first thing the Code said was, “This person can’t be Jewish.” This destroyed the whole basis of the story. They didn’t mind. When [Comics Code administrator Len Darvin] says, about a different story, “I think probably the writer or the editor changed the man’s name to Miller,” you can bet he doesn’t know what he’s talking about. Was that an EC story, Don?

material the most effective way possible: I read what appealed to me at that age. I don’t think there’s one of us here who would say different. When we wanted to read stuff on a particular level, maturity which we had achieved as individuals, be it fiction of any kind in our school libraries or comic books, we gravitated to it, and we read it, and that’s that simple. Nobody had to tell us. If anyone had the responsibility of telling us, it was our parents. Unfortunately, you can’t really hold this against the Code. The Code exists because of people who would like to censor. But we can ask the Code to be honest in what it’s doing. I think that it is reassuring to hear a man from the Code say, “Perhaps we could publish adult comic books.” Even though they won’t let anyone do adult comic books, it’s nice to hear him say that. And maybe someday, we’ll get back to the kind of unfettered fury like the ’50s when we could do this. It’s starting to happen. The Comics Code Authority killed over 40 comic book publishers. Stop and think about that. Don’t even stop and think about the fact that this threw a fantastic number of artists out of work. Stop and think about 40 different publishing companies, not just different names for the same company, went out of business because of the Code. They couldn’t make it. Who survived? Well, I think I counted them up at one point and there’s something like eight. Now we’re seeing new ones come back in and some of the others rejuvenate themselves. King Features is publishing comics again. Tower Comics is a new outfit, which did the reverse of it. They were a sex book publisher, Midwood. We’re seeing Harvey bringing back Fighting American and bringing out some pretty wretched new super-heroes, but maybe there’s hope for improvement. [audience laughs] We’re seeing the Mighty Comics Group, which is an abomination

DON THOMPSON: [from audience] Yes, it was. WHITE: It was written by Al Feldstein, a Jew, who would very likely not change it to “Miller.” Let us be honest about this: this [Leonard Darvin’s statement] is rank hypocrisy. It angers me to think about it—when a man says, “I am not in favor of censorship. I believe any adult should be able to read what he wants, but we’ve got to protect our little kiddies.” All of us here have been children. Do we remember pernicious incidents happening to us because we read comic books? I don’t know about you, but when I was a little boy, you know, just in my first or second year of reading, I was not interested in war comics or crime comics or even Superman and Batman. I was interested in Donald Duck and Pogo and all the other little funny animal comics. I censored my own reading

“Anybody Who Reads Psychoanalysis Should Have His Head Examined” Couldn’t resist paraphrasing a famous quip by film mogul Sam Goldwyn. In the panels at top center from the immediately pre-Code Psychoanalysis #1 (March-April 1955), the shrink’s client Mark gives both his real name (Stein) and his altered name (Stone). In the Code-approved #2-4, his analysis proceeds with no further mention of his being Jewish—probably at the new censoring body's “request.” The “Miller” tale Ted was recalling (the three panels directly above) appeared in the Code-approved Impact #4 (Sept.-Oct. 1955): “The Lonely One,” set in the Korean War. John Benson, who located it for us, writes: “Although they [EC] couldn’t say he was Jewish or use a specifically Jewish name, there is the line ‘Hey, Miller! Where do you figure to spend Sunday morning?’ The story makes much of the fact that the bad guy can tell Miller is ‘your kind’ just because of his name, so obviously it was something else originally. (This story takes the idea from a Saturday Evening Post story where the guy who fell on the grenade was black.) I note the bad guy’s name in the story is Benson. If this were written a year or two later, I’d figure that it was Feldstein giving me a bad name… but I wasn’t known to him when this story came out.” Thanks, John! [©2006 William M. Gaines Agent.]

A 1966 Panel With Ted White, Bhob Stewart, & Archie Goodwin

upon the face of the Earth— [loud laughter and applause]

the readership of comic books is over 18. The sales of comic books on PXs [stores on US military bases] throughout the world is phenomenal. Let’s not kid about this. These people may be stuck with eight-year-old products if they can’t get anything else, but if you give them something else, they’ll buy it. Maybe someday, we’ll have a situation like what’s developing in movies, comics that are for adultsonly. As an adult, I wouldn’t mind.

Before we get into the questions from the audience, I think I’ve pretty well concluded my point except to say that, again, we seem to be reaching a point of excitement in the comics field. New things are happening. Marvel opened the doors for us, and perhaps other people are going to be taking a lead from Marvel, and perhaps we’re going to see another upgrading of quality. Whether the field will ever attract another Bernie Krigstein, whether it will ever be able to afford another Bernie Krigstein, I don’t know. Let’s pass the mike back to Bhob or Archie. GOODWIN: I think, in the ’50s, there was a certain sense of realism, or a realistic effect. That realism was driven out of comics by the Code, and now most comics are in the fantasy area. But whether or not comics can ever mature as an art form, I think it’s up to the people who read comics now. If they actually demand more, they ought to be able to get more. MAGGIE THOMPSON: [from audience] How does a reader demand something? WHITE: Very simple. He doesn’t buy.

“He Rode A Blazing Combat…” Nope—not even Mel Brooks could make a good Frankie Laine song out of the title of Warren Publishing’s war comic, which was edited and mostly written by Archie Goodwin in 1965-65. “The Enemy!” by Archie Goodwin (writer) and John Severin (artist) was set during World War II, but Warren’s Blazing Combat had the same mix of historical epochs that the EC war comics had had, up to and including the growing conflict in Vietnam. [©2006 Warren Publishing Co. or its successors in interest.]

MAGGIE T.: Right, but how does the publisher know that this is from a small group of people who are collectors, obviously not representative of the vast majority?

WHITE: You’re right, Maggie, in the sense that the vocal fan of any field is always in the minority. We had this beat into our heads time and time again. Publishers said, “Why should we listen to you? You’re not representative of our readership.” The question here is a complicated one. It doesn’t have an easy answer, but there is always the ultimate answer: is anyone out there buying? Marvel’s sales have gone way up since the ’50s when they were doing the monster comics. That is an answer right there. That says to Martin Goodman, who’s tallying up his ledgers, Stan Lee is doing the right thing, Stan Lee has hit on something here.

GOODWIN: Well, I don’t know. I think to a certain extent, we’re experimenting with that form now. I think there is a chance for adult appeal in the black-&-white comics we’ve been trying, although most of the sales so far have been to kids. Although the actual reading level of that takes probably about 15 or 14. But with the black-&-white comics that we’ve been trying, I think there is a chance for an adult appeal there. But so far, mostly the sales, I think, have depended upon the kids, 14and 15-year-olds. Blazing Combat is now defunct. I think that was the most adult of our magazines, and apparently it wasn’t reaching the kids. I think it was just largely because the distributors put it with the men’s sweat magazines, and kids weren’t buying it. WHITE: You think you’ll be using any color in the future?

GOODWIN: No. As things stand now, I think we’ll be seen in black&-white for each month we’re doing horror. It comes off better in black-&-white. I think it’s more tasteful. The better horror movies have been black-&-white horror movies. I think it adds to the mood. Plus I think it gives the artist a chance to be more completely his own man. Too often in our comics, by the time they’ve applied the color to the comics, they’ve destroyed a great deal of the artwork. Plus, black-&-white enables the artist to have more choices of technique. With comics in color, you’re stuck pretty much with straight black-&-white lines, perhaps with some Ben Days, though they have to be used in a limited manner. With black-&-white comics, they can work with wash, they can work with pencil, and they can work with pen and ink. I think it gives them a little more scope. WHITE: Dick Lupoff has been bouncing up and down in his seat.

This reflects, I think, a growing sophistication on the part of the readers. I don’t think it’s true that for the first time today college kids are reading comic books. I think for the first time today college kids are admitting to reading comic books. But I do think there’s a significant difference now. For the first time, a man of my age can go up to a newsstand and buy comic books without turning all shades of red. [audience laughs] And I can do that because The Village Voice, Esquire magazine, and plenty of others have been plugging these things. It’s socially acceptable. This is a step in the right direction.

RICHARD LUPOFF: [from audience] You had a very interesting discussion for a couple of minutes, [audience laughs] this business of Blazing Combat getting stuck with men’s sweat where it didn’t sell, and Creepy and Eerie got stuck with Famous Monsters, so they sell to 13-year-olds. Do you think, if they published this kind of magazine in digest size, it would be grouped with the science-fiction and detective books, and thus reach a grown-up audience?

It looks like we have a more obvious adult readership, and let me reiterate independent studies have proven for years that at least 50% of

GOODWIN: Maybe so, but I think you need a certain re-education of adults which may be occurring now. Some may be buying the pocket

The Forgotten ’50s: Will Comics Ever Again Be As Exciting As EC?

books of comic strips…. WHITE: Russ Jones has been producing a series of comics for pocket books. He did one, Dracula, for Ballantine; he tells me he’s done four for Pyramid. Obviously your pocket book reader is going to be more or less your adult reader, and very possibly this is going to be your answer to distribution, but it’s a confined medium. [NOTE: The term “pocket book,” actually a brand name, was often used as a generic synonym for “paperback” in this era.] LUPOFF: Well, digest-sized books, especially if you do a spread, give you a pretty good-sized page. Obviously, it’s nothing to compare with this Time size that Warren has been using, but it breaks you a little bit beyond those terrible limitations of the paperback book size. AUDIENCE MEMBER #1: Number four was the last issue of Blazing Combat?

Drac In Paperback In 1966, as Ted White mentions, original Creepy editor Russ Jones packaged an adaptation of Bram Stoker’s novel Dracula as a Ballantine paperback… what would have been called, a few years later, a “graphic novel.” Script was by Otto Binder and Craig Tennis; art by Alden McWilliams. Thanks to Frank Motler for the scans of the cover and the interior double-spread frontispiece. [©2006 the respective copyright holders.]

GOODWIN: Yeah. If you’re wondering if your subscription money’s going to be refunded? [audience member says “Naw.”] Well, it’s not. [audience laughs] Jim Warren is now in Mexico with your subscription money. No, there won’t be a fifth issue, unless you all run out and quickly buy up any copies of #4 that are still out.

AUDIENCE MEMBER #2: Is there any censorship now on the EC reprints in Ballantine Books?

WHITE: It’s already a collector’s item, fellas—you can’t find it anywhere.

GOODWIN: Yes, but no censorship.

WHITE: There shouldn’t be, because simply they have nothing to do with the Code. But there’s a very crude messing around with some of the panels to make them fit the page.

AUDIENCE MEMBER #3: [From 1953-55] several companies experimented with a revival of the super-heroes and failed. A few years later, they came on big and succeeded. Why was this? WHITE: Well, it’s a good question, and part of it may be involved in how they did it and why they did it. One of the companies that experimented with the revival of super-heroes [in the 1950s] was Marvel, who attempted to revive Captain America, Sub-Mariner, and Human Torch. I guess they did so for roughly a year. And then there was Fighting American. Were there any others? STEWART: ME [Magazine Enterprises] came out with The Avenger. WHITE: Well, “The Flash” in Showcase #4 in 1956 was really the beginning of the successful revival of super-characters. As to why they didn’t catch on a couple of years earlier, I would suspect it had to do with both the content, which obviously was uninspired, and with the fact that it just didn’t appear to be time for that certain thing. As Archie’s pointed out, it was a period when the preoccupation of comics was primarily for realism. The fantasy, even in the form of realistic science-fiction—EC’s science-fiction sold less well than anything else they did. The readers seemed to be interested in the war comics and Westerns, things like that. [At that point the panel ended.] Next issue, this series will present an edited version of the Benson Con’s 1940s panel, which consisted of Otto Binder, Larry Ivie, and Klaus Nordling—the latter, who drew Quality Comics features and “Lady Luck,” in his only known comicon appearance ever. Meanwhile, please check out my website (see ad at left) to find out which Hamster Press books are currently available.

72 geeky 10-year-olds poking around behind their Spicy pulps. Still, the search was worth it. What other company featured a giant flaming eyeball (“The Eye Sees”) that floated in the air and told crime stories? Or anything like Paul Gustavson’s “The Fantom of the Fair,” in which a caped, all-black costumed denizen of the “catacombs beneath the New York World’s Fair” fought crime against a backdrop of the Trylon and Peripshere? Or “Speed Centaur,” a modern-day centaur who battled evil disguised as a horse? And so on. Great stuff. Incidentally, there’s an error in the Checklist. Under “Book Illustrations,” that’s Toby Tyler; or Ten Weeks with the Circus, a “children’s classic” from around the turn of the 20th century, not Tony Tyler, as the Checklist [at the end of the Glanzman interview] has it. That edition was published in the early 1960s, I believe, by the World Publishing Co.’s line of quality children’s books—a sort of companion to World’s Living Library for adults. Each volume had an opening essay about the illustrator. Glanzman’s drawings were terrific, but Toby Tyler itself, despite a staying power generated by the evocative title—Disney once made a live-action film from it—is utter rubbish, and any right-thinking person would want to kick the whining, sniveling little wretch propping up the title around the block a couple of times.

kay, so even this nice intro drawing of Captain Ego by the everreliable Shane Foley won’t long disguise the fact that, once again, I ran out of space to “double up” in this section by dealing with missives re Alter Ego #49-50. So I’ll have to settle for telling you that this drawing, while inspired by the 1942 cover of Superman #18, is ©2006 Shane Foley, and that Captain Ego, created by Biljo White, is TM & ©2006 Roy Thomas & Bill Schelly, and move on:

This time, at least, as well as featuring comments on #49, which dealt primarily with “Human Torch” creator Carl Burgos and other Timely/Marvel-related matters, I also stumbled across a letter from Richard Kyle about A/E #46 which I’d meant to print long since. It deals in part with Bill Everett, who introduced “Sub-Mariner” in the selfsame Marvel Comics #1 in 1939 in which the Torch made his debut… and it’s only a slight jump from that to talking about Lew Glanzman (a.k.a. Glanz) and the “Amazing Man” feature which Everett created and Glanzman later drew…. Dear Roy, Re: Alter Ego #46. Ahhh, Lew Glanz at last! Amazing-Man was a great favorite of mine, especially while Bill Everett was drawing (and writing, or at least plotting) “Amazing-Man”—but not the least of its pleasures was Lew Glanz’s “The Shark.” I wish it had been possible to print at least one example of Glanzman’s exceptional paintings for the slicks. He’s very, very good. One of my childhood puzzles was why Amazing-Man, unlike the other Centaur titles, was published by the Comic Corporation of America (wonderfully ambitious name), with all its pages in full color, and with more pages than its companions. Even the coloring looked different. Now I realize that A-Man was probably intended as a flagship book—as a last-ditch competitor to DC and the other large comics companies. Alas. Nonetheless, despite their faults, Centaur comics (and the allied Funnies, Inc., comics) were my favorites. They were not easy to find. Usually Centaurs turned up on shabby, half-stocked magazine racks hidden in the dark corners of near-bankrupt mom-and-pops—or in liquor stores manned by angry, unshaven vendors who didn’t want

Nor does the Checklist mention Glanzman’s excellent line of illustrations for an issue of Comet, a pulp science-fiction magazine, possibly the March 1941 issue. It was published by a company affiliated with Centaur and lasted only five issues, but it may have been Glanzman’s first market as a pure illustrator. If you grant that Bill Everett had a slightly erratic memory, the mystery of [the derivation of Sub-Mariner’s name] “Namor” may not be a mystery. Everett says in the interview: “It [‘Namor’] came from the word ‘Roman,’ but I can’t remember why.” Consider “Hydroman.” Hyd-roman. So, if one of the early working names for The Sub-Mariner was “Hydroman,” it makes perfect sense. [I believe] Everett started off with [the name] Hydroman, devised Namor from it (the “hyd” hides), then moved on to “Sub-Mariner,” discarding the Hydroman name in the process. Everett himself says he worked this way with names, and the transcribers of the interview, Don and Maggie Thompson, note another instance of this kind in his creation of “Dorma.” Later, for Heroic Comics, the rejected Hydroman name was revived, and by the time of the interview, Everett’s memory had conflated fragments of the origins of the two strips. (In this connection it may be worth noting that Everett doesn’t say how the Hydroman name was chosen, although he does give an explanation for “Bob Blake,” the character’s civilian name—a rather odd explanation, considering that Blake was Everett’s own middle name.) It also seems to me that a transcription typo may have confused the picture of Everett’s pre-comics career. On page 14, Everett says: “I used to [art-] edit some dime novels of science-fiction for Teck Publications, and I bought a lot of artwork from guys—you know, comic illustrations—that were really great, and I think I was influenced a lot by those.” On page 32, he says that in 1936 he worked for “a tech publication, and I was art editor for them, and we put out two radio news magazines,” continuing, “[a]nd we had all kids of TV equipment, and this was 1936 and we had television then.” And on page 6 he says, “And when I returned from Chicago after my last big advertising job, I was without any work at all.” The problem is that the radio magazines he must be referring to were still owned by Teck Publications of New York in 1936, not by Ziff-Davis in Chicago, who bought them from Teck, along with

re:

73 Everett worked for Teck Publications in New York as assistant art editor from at least 1936 until Ziff-Davis bought the company in 1938. As a Teck employee, he was probably offered the opportunity to work in a similar capacity for Ziff-Davis in Chicago. There, for the new version of Amazing Stories, he briefly handled the exceptional pulp science-fiction art of Joe Tillotson/Robert Fuqua, H.W. McCauley, Julian S. Krupa, Malcolm Smith, and others. For whatever reason, he did not catch on at Ziff-Davis, and returned to New York in mid-tolate 1938 to begin his comics career. The rest we know…. Incidentally, Everett did another strip for Centaur more or less concurrent with “Skyrocket Steele”—“Dirk the Demon,” also sciencefiction. It’s missing from the Checklist. I haven’t a clue who did the Target Comics roughs on page 16. I don’t think they’re by Bob Wood, although in the upper left rough it appears someone has attempted to draw Wood’s standard grimace, and in the lower right, the stock running pose (taken from Bob Kane), both with uncertain success. If the artist is anyone at Funnies, Inc., I suppose it would have to be Everett. But these are surely idle doodles, conceptually weak, with little style, not what I would have expected from Everett. Richard Kyle 3714 Lewis Av. Long Beach, CA 90807-4120

What’s In A Namor? Prince Namor’s very first foray against the hated surface-dwellers—from page 3 of his adventure in Marvel Comics #1 (Oct. 1939)—except that this crystal-clear image is taken from a photocopy of the even earlier Motion Picture Funnies Weekly #1, as provided by Robert Wiener. Great to see it without all that obscuring color, isn’t it? Clearly, Bill Everett really worked his fin off on this dynamic debut, even if he still hadn’t quite decided whether or not the name “Sub-Mariner” was hyphenated! [©2006 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

Amazing Stories science-fiction pulp, a couple of years later. However, Teck Publications’ Amazing Stories was drably illustrated (by Leo Morey) and could not be the source of the “great” illustrations Everett talked about on page 14. (“Dime novels” had not been printed for upwards of twenty years, but people sometimes applied the name to the 10¢ pulp magazines. There were no paperbacks in those days.) And what of “And when I returned from Chicago…”? Well, the “great illustrations” in Amazing Stories could only have been drawn for Ziff-Davis’ jazzed-up Amazing Stories of 1938, with “comic illustrations” in style, if not in content. Chicago was an important center for publishing, and Ziff-Davis had access to some exceptional artists who had not been seen in New York. Confusing. However, it would seem that the quote on page 32 should have read that Everett worked for “Teck Publications” (not “a tech publication”)—and, given that, I think all this can be straightened out. After leaving the Vesper George School of Art in Boston in 1935,

Interesting conjecture, there, Richard—that Sub-Mariner might originally have been conceived as “Hydroman,” and that the last five letters of that name became his “real” name. It may or may not be true—but if not, it’s certainly an astonishing coincidence. And we agree that Centaur Comics was an intriguing company. I recall how amazed I was, just about the time I was turning 21, when fellow English teacher Bob Hopkins (the same guy who clued me in that the signature I read as “Enereh” was actually “Everett”) first told me about the heroes of that line. A centaur who fought crime? A giant floating Eye? A masked hero who lived beneath the grounds of the 1939-40 New York World’s Fair? I thought he had to be joking! Anytime anybody puts together a good study of the Centaur group, he’s guaranteed a prominent spot in an early issue of Alter Ego! Next, a few thoughts from a Lee named Stan that you may have heard of: In the latest ish of Alter Ego, I noticed that Carl Burgos’ daughter mentioned that Carl was angry at me (I guess for putting the Torch in the F.F.). It’s strange, he never indicated any bad feeling to me. I thought we always got along well—not that I ever saw that much of him. It’s strange how you can misjudge things, too. I have a hunch that I felt Carl would be pleased that his character had been revived—it was sort of an homage to him. I certainly never told anyone that I was the one who created the Torch. But, now that I think of it, when people gave Jack and me credit for creating the F.F., perhaps that’s what rankled him. Too bad that it never occurred to me at the time. Stan Lee What bothered Carl Burgos, quite probably, was that he didn’t share in any ownership of the original Human Torch, let alone the Johnny Storm version. But of course, neither did you or Jack. Now for A/E #49, and its coverage of Carl Burgos, as well as The Human Torch as his many imitators. In fact, here’s a letter from Jake Oster, one of the collectors who provided art and info for that issue’s article on “Torch Types”—early comics heroes influenced to one degree or another by the Torch: Dear Roy, I enjoyed the interview with Susan Burgos, a daughter who

[comments, correspondence, & corrections]

obviously loved her father even if she didn’t always understand him. When it was announced that A/E #49 would feature other Human Torch types, I must confess the only ones that immediately sprang to mind were The Blue Flame and Freddy Firefly. I didn’t realize there were so many! No wonder Martin Goodman was fuming.

instruction, eh, Michael—in which you push a guy off a dock to force him to learn to swim. Still, your argument has considerable logic behind it, and it’s hard to imagine that Martin Goodman’s comics were doing anything more than dog-paddling by 1957, with or without the failure of American News. Any other comments out there?

I believe The Flame #6 cover depicted on page 34 was by Edd Ashe. Inferno the Flame Breather was originally a helper to Steel Sterling in Zip Comics #10-13 (Jan. 1941-April 1941). He didn’t wear a costume in the ”Steel Sterling” stories, but did in his own strip in Blue Ribbon Comics. If the street sign in the “Red Blazer” splash on page 36 didn’t say “Al Avison,” I would have guessed Paul Reinman as the artist. By the way, Harvey also had a “Captain Red Blazer and Sparky,” who were featured on the cover and text story in All-New Comics #512 (Oct. 1943-May/June 1946). Captain Red Blazer is no relation to the earlier Red Blazer and never appeared in his own strip.

From the overview presented by Michael, we move to a correction from John Benson concerning a single cover—but here at A/E we like both to present the Big Picture, and to zero in on the most minute detail:

Jake Oster Thanks for the added info, Jake. We could easily put together another article on fiery fighters of the early comics—such as “The Flying Flame,” who was depicted in A/E #57. Michael Feldman is a knowledgeable collector who is, at this stage of his life, more interested in the companies and their business dealings than in the super-heroes, funny animals, teenagers, bank robbers, and ghouls who appeared in the comic mags themselves. Upon reading Thomas C. Lammers’ lengthy analysis of the 1957 “Atlas Implosion” in #49, he sent this e-mail:

Roy— A few notes about the cover of Dippy Duck #1 on page 53 of A/E #49. First of all, the cover is not by Joe Maneely, but by John Severin. You will find more information about this cover on page 38 of Squa Tront 11. The proof cover (first published in Squa Tront, then in A/E) came from Severin’s files. He sent it to us for Squa Tront, I sent a scan to Doc Vassallo, who sent it to you. Severin’s initials are actually on the cover, though hardly noticeable. If you read my caption for the Squa Tront repro, you will notice that I erroneously indicate that “according to Timely records” the issue was released May 15, 1957. This was based on Vassallo’s data to me. I

Roy, You might want to pass this on to Tom: Although IND (Independent News Distribution] cut back Martin Goodman’s 35-40 comics a month to only 8 [when IND began distributing his comics line in 1958 after the collapse of American News Company], I don’t see this as punitive. IND carried 40 comics a month at the time: 34 from DC, 4 from ACG, and two from Prize. With Goodman added in, the number rose to 48. A year later, all of the original companies were pared back, particularly DC, so the total was back to 40. Goodman’s total was raised to 10 in 1960, 11 in 1961, 12 in 1962, and so on. Neither ACG or Prize ever went up again. IND wanted to regulate the number of comic books in the marketplace and were, in fact, generous with Goodman, considering the restrictions. His Lion Books [paperback line] couldn’t be picked up, due to an exclusive distribution arrangement with Signet, which was a far bigger and more buoyant operation. His Western digests were also weak. What IND really wanted was Goodman’s successful line of “men’s sweat” magazines—Stag, Male, etc.—plus his Playboy imitations Swank and Bachelor, as well as miscellaneous true crime, movie, and confessional titles. There was an overall fear of another calamitous glut in the marketplace as had happened in 1941, 1946, 1950, and particularly in 1953. With the exception of Charlton, distributors coordinated their output to keep things at manageable levels. The withdrawal of ANC made this possible for the first time. Goodman may have been forced to sustain a large number of comics titles when he was self-distributing, but it wasn’t working out well by 1956. All down-market publishing was troubled in the mid’50s. I’d say Goodman’s Atlas was failing, from most indications. His strategies of amortizing overheads with volume and maintaining a substantial presence on the stands were backfiring after 1952. Only his men’s magazines were really successful. In the long run, Goodman’s 1957 downsizing was the best thing that happened to him. Michael Feldman Sort-of like the so-called “John Wayne approach” to swimming

Black-&-White Hot Most of the missives we received re A/E #49 expressed admiration for Jim Amash’s interview with Carl Burgos’ daughter Susan, and for the artist’s most enduring creation. Ye Editor has said it before, and he’ll say it again: Burgos’ best work on the Torch was the handful of stories he drew in the too-brief 1950s revival, as per this page from Young Men #26, repro’d from a photocopy of the original art. [©2006 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

re:

75 article, this one from another Timely/Atlas collector and expert, Jim Vadeboncoeur, Jr.: Hi, Roy, Tom Lammers’ “Atlas Shrugged” was great! I learned an awful lot and am certainly glad that those younger than I are still making that journey into the still-unknown worlds of Goodman’s 1950s companies. A few points: (1) I wrote the original “Atlas Implosion” article sometime around 1985-86 (I think) based on a conversation I had with Brad Elliott, the original author on the book that emerged as Les Daniels’ Marvel: Five Fabulous Decades. That article appeared in Steve Duin’s Comics between the Panels in 1998, but by then the information was at least a dozen years out of date. I seem to recall that Brad had shown me “onsale dates” of many Atlas titles in the mid-1950s. (2) If Atlas was a brand name, which I will accept, it was not restricted to the comics arm. It was applied equally to Goodman’s magazines, as there are many instances of the globe appearing in that venue. (3) It’s been humbling that both Tom and Michael Vassallo have made it clear to me that my major failing as an Atlas historian was not to recognize the importance of Job Numbers. All I can say in my behalf is that, when I started indexing Atlas in 1969, it didn’t seem to matter. Live and learn. A few more #49 corrections: On p. 46, the Jann of the Jungle #13 cover is not by Maneely, but most likely by Carl Burgos. On p. 55, I have to respectfully disagree with Doc V. on Al Hartley’s inker on the cover of Patsy Walker #73. It is not, in my opinion, Bill Everett.

We’re Looking For Ducks Who Like To Draw, Pardner! Since, as John Benson correctly points out, the cover of Dippy Duck #1 was indeed drawn by John Severin, not Joe Maneely—and since we printed a splash panel from that last comic ever to feature an Atlas logo back with Dr. Michael J. Vassallo’s study of Maneely in A/E #28—we figured we’d print a page of Maneely art from Two-Gun Kid #42 (June 1958). By this point Maneely had effected a style slightly simplified from his earlier, more decorative work, but he was still a master of the form. Doc V. owns the original artwork to all three Maneely-drawn “Two-Gun Kid” tales from that issue, and we thank him for sending us copies of it. [©2006 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

asked him where he got the date and he responded: “Somewhere I got publication dates for all the 1957 Atlas releases. I cannot for the life of me remember where I got them from. Someone looked them up someplace and posted them to a list.” My conclusion that this was from Timely records was an uncalled-for leap; Vassallo was evidently referring to copyright records data, although his dates are a little different from the ones Lammers uses. I still think its doubly bizarre that this issue is the only October release with an Atlas logo, when (1) apparently other September-dated comics were released later than this one; and (2) the proof cover has a more logical September date. Why did they change it on the final version? Let me just add that I think Lammers’ article is just an absolutely fascinating, thorough, meticulously researched, well-written piece of comics scholarship. John Benson We heartily concur, John. And here’s another comment on that

Regarding Mike W. Barr’s inquiry about Herb Rogoff’s memories regarding the Ellery Queen comics published by Ziff-Davis: I interviewed Mr. Rogoff at length for my book on Everett Raymond Kinstler. Being curious types ourselves, Hames Ware and I have often wondered who “R. Kay” was, as he signed the “EQ” stories in those books. Herb told me those two comics were presented to Ziff-Davis as a package deal with all the material done by the packager. He has no knowledge of the wheres or hows of the deal, nor does he know who “R. Kay” might have been. Drat. Jim Vadeboncoeur, Jr. We highly recommend your book on artist Everett Raymond Kinstler to all comics fans, Jim. He did fascinating work for DC, Avon, and various other companies before moving on to become an illustrator. Interested parties can order at jvjpubs.com, or phone (650) 493-3841, or write you at 3809 Laguna Avenue, Palo Alto, CA 94306. Without further ado: reader Rex Ferrell begs to dissent from the chorus of praise for A/E #49’s subject matter…. Okay, okay, enuff awready! Mr. Thomas, I know Stan Lee and Marvel Comics helped you get your career in comics rolling and all, but as one of your fans, I have to be honest and say that I am sick of stories about Timely/Marvel! Just a peek at the back-issues pages of Alter Ego should remind you how many issues have been devoted to that company. In my opinion, before Jack Kirby returned in 1959 (60?), that company produced so many pretty-damn-awful comics they actually made Charlton look good! Sure, talented artists breezed in occasionally (Kurtzman, Everett, Ditko, etc.), but Goodman’s strategy of flooding the market with cheap knockoffs of the trendsetters and clones of his own successful titles (like all the X-books today) contributed to the decline of comics! (If there had been no Frederic Wertham, Martin Goodman would have

[comments, correspondence, & corrections]

Where Were You In ’52? Sure, Martin Goodman tended to flood the comic book market back in the 1940s and ’50s, and that meant a lot of bad material got out there from Timely. The fact remains that, reader Rex Ferrell to the contrary, there was a lot of good product from the precursor of Marvel, in several different genres. E.g., here are splashes by three talented artists, all from the year 1952: Carmine Infantino (Adventures into Weird Worlds #13, Dec.—inker uncertain)—Joe Maneely (Combat Kelly #8, Dec., with script by Hank Chapman)—and Dick Ayers (only his third story for Stan Lee, in Spellbound #1, March). And most of the decade still lay before them! Thanks to Doc Vassallo for the photocopies. [©2006 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

created him—and then cloned him endlessly!) It may be fascinating to business students as to how that misbegotten company has repeatedly risen from the dead, but to me and for the way it has treated its creators over the years, Timely/Marvel has been a pain in the backside! I yearn for the day when DC/Time-Warner will buy it and bury it once and for all! Now that I have poured out my liver, I’ll mention a few notes of gratitude and a couple of suggestions. The Matt Baker and Jack Cole issues were lo-ong overdue and much appreciated. How about stories about other Golden and Silver artists such as Irv (“Batman”) Novick, Gray Morrow, and Johnny Craig? Or writers such as Carl Wessler, Bill Finger, and David V(ern) Reed (the latter an underrated writer who has recently been maligned on the Internet by 40-year-old men who forget that, fundamentally, “Batman” is for kids! And what’s up with no stories about Harvey Kurtzman, whose influence is surely the equal of Kirby or Carl Barks’? We know about Mad, but would there have been underground comix, Howard the Duck, or Zippy the Pinhead if not for Harvey’s influence? C’mon, Roy, you’ve only scratched the surface! So why bedevil us with Timely/Marvel again, and again, and again….

We’d cover them further, but there’s a catch: somebody has to write the articles first, or else unearth that rare, perhaps never-published interview. When one comes along, you’ll see it right here. But—say I’m sorry because an average of one issue out of every several of Alter Ego is devoted to some aspect of the Golden or Silver Ages at Marvel Comics? You must be thinking of some other Roy Thomas, Rex. Let’s see… I’m told there’s a fairly prominent Native American folk artist with the same name… and I saw that monicker twenty years or so ago listed as one of the stunt men in a Hollywood movie… but this Silver Age reprobate will continue to cover the heroic comics of Marvel, DC, Fawcett, et al., until the last factoid and downright fantasy about them is collected! Until then, send those blandishments and brickbats to: Roy Thomas e-mail: roydann@ntinet.com 32 Bluebird Trail fax: (803) 826-6501 St. Matthews, SC 29135 And what the heck is a “brickbat,” anyway? Sounds like something Barry Bonds or Sammy Sosa used to hit all those home runs…!

Rex Ferrell We see no need to make any apologies for much of anything that we do publish, Rex… but, that said, sure, we’d love to see articles on and/or interviews with the worthies you mention, even if much or all of their work wasn’t devoted to the super-hero genre which is the basic selfproclaimed franchise of this magazine. We have plans to run an interview we have on hand with the late Irv Novick, the first chance we get—and, while talents like Gray Morrow, Johnny Craig, Carl Wessler, and Harvey Kurtzman receive their due especially in magazines like John Benson’s Squa Tront, which celebrates EC Comics and its ongoing legacy, we’ve featured work by most of those in A/E at one time or another, as well.

CORRECTION: We don’t want to wait till we deal with mail on A/E #56 to correct one apparent false memory related therein by interviewee Jack Adler. He said that editor Robert Kanigher’s treatment of artist Mort Drucker caused the latter to vow never again to work for DC Comics. Mr. Drucker phoned us to say that he had never made that statement; what he had said was that he would never again work for Bob Kanigher—and he didn’t. A/E and Jack Adler wished to correct the misstatement as soon as possible.

[FCA EDITORS NOTE: From 1941-53, Marcus D. Swayze was a top artist for Fawcett Publications. The very first Mary Marvel character sketches came from Marc’s drawing table, and he illustrated her earliest adventures, including the classic origin story, “Captain Marvel Introduces Mary Marvel (Captain Marvel Adventures #18, Dec. ’42); but he was primarily hired by Fawcett Publications to illustrate Captain Marvel stories and covers for Whiz Comics and Captain Marvel Adventures. He also wrote many Captain Marvel scripts, and continued to do so while in the military. After leaving the service in 1944, he made an arrangement with Fawcett to produce art and stories for them on a freelance basis out of his Louisiana home. There he created both art and story for The Phantom Eagle in Wow Comics, in addition to drawing the Flyin’ Jenny newspaper strip for Bell Syndicate (created by his friend and mentor Russell Keaton). After the cancellation of Wow, Swayze produced artwork for Fawcett’s top-selling line of romance comics, including Sweethearts and Life Story. After the company ceased publishing comics, Marc moved over to Charlton Publications, where he ended his comics career in the mid-’50s. Marc’s ongoing professional memoirs have been FCA’s most popular feature since his first column appeared in FCA #54, 1996. Last issue Marc discussed a unique romance story he illustrated for Fawcett. This issue’s topic is based on a question I had recently asked Mary Marvel’s visual creator: “Marc, what if you had been offered the Mary Marvel feature as a full-time assignment (instead of Jack Binder)? What approach would you have taken?” —P.C. Hamerlinck.] The question: “What if you had been offered Mary Marvel as a full-time assignment?” It floored me. Despite later inferences to the contrary, I had never once given it a thought. Why would I have? My daily routine at the time, 1942, was illustrating stories and covers that featured a hero hailed as the most popular in comic books … Captain Marvel. Why consider changing? I drew Captain Marvel the way I thought of him … heavy … powerful. The art style was the same that had evolved under the hand of C.C. Beck when he drew the feature unassisted in 1940 and ’41. It was a bold technique with extras in the cast that resembled evacuees from the

“Just A Young Girl…” “The art was expected to picture Mary… not strong… not powerful… just a young girl… with super-powers.” Rough Mary Marvel sketch by Marc Swayze. [Mary Marvel TM & ©2006 DC Comics.]

Humor Us! “There would no attempts at humor with the art… such as cartoony characters…” Panel from the story that introduced Mary Marvel, in Captain Marvel Adventures #18 (Dec. 1942). The art is by Marc Swayze, but of course here he was drawing what was technically a Captain Marvel story. [©2006 DC Comics.]

funnies of an earlier day. It was the perfect art style for Captain Marvel. But not, I deemed, for Mary Marvel. I saw Mary as … not strong, not powerful … just a young girl … with super-powers. I felt the art style should reflect that. And so it did … on the original character sketches drawn for management approval, and on several of the early comic book covers launching the new heroine. The stories, though, were Captain Marvel stories … that included Mary … but were rendered in the Captain Marvel style. They brought an end to the idea of a special art style for Mary Marvel. Before continuing, it should be understood that none of this is to be taken as criticism of those who prepared the Mary Marvel feature for publication after those first stories. Jack Binder, and the experts in his assembly-line shop … and all others involved … should be remembered with respect and praise. The contrasts that appear here are between art styles … the Captain Marvel style versus a specific style once briefly intended for Mary. Had it fallen my lot to draw Mary Marvel on a full-time basis, that is the art style I would have chosen. I thought the art might be a constant reminder to the reader that Mary was a discreet, gracious young lady … self-controlled, calm, confident, yet … vulnerable. The art would be realistic, with no attempts at humor, like cartoony characters and catchy backgrounds. Of particular interest would have been Mary’s facial expressions … her controlled emotions … her effortless physical action … qualities unlikely to appear in dialogue or captions. Her hair, for instance, would not appear to have been lacquered in place … but left loose, airy, billowy … easily activated by the slightest disturbance.

“We Didn’t Know... It Was The Golden Age!”

Same with her costume … drawn as a fabric light in weight … to react with Mary’s every turn. The drawing of her costume would have been a handy means of maintaining her kinship with Captain Marvel. Those identity symbols— the lightning flash chest emblem and the floral designs on the cape—would be made visible at every opportunity. That kinship, incidentally, must have been considered of importance at the very concept of Mary Marvel. Can you imagine her popularity ever having been achieved had she been promoted as Mary Batson? There is no guarantee that the Mary Marvel art would have been better had it come from my drawing board. I can say, though, that it would have received undivided attention here. And total responsibility has meaning. It appears to boil down, once again, to the assembly-line means of producing comic book art … versus the sole artist system. It’s all conjecture, of course, but I believed, back in the Golden Age, that the singular focus—total responsibility bit—had its good points. And I still do! Marc Swayze will have more to say about the Golden Age of Comics in future issues.

Her Crowning Glory “Mary’s hair was not to look as if lacquered in place… but left loose and airy… billowy… to stir easily as Mary moved.” Drawings from Marc Swayze’s sketchbook. [Mary Marvel TM & ©2006 DC Comics.]

New N ew book book by by M MICHAEL ICHAEL EURY, EURY RY, e editor ditor o off

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Welcome to the CAMP AGE, when spies liked their wars cold and their women warm, good guys beat bad guys with a pun and a punch, and Batman shook a mean cape. HERO-A-GO-GO celebrates the camp craze of the Swinging Sixties, when just about everyone—the teens of Riverdale, an ant and a squirrel, even the President of the United States—was a super-hero or a secret agent. BACK ISSUE magazine and former DC Comics editor MICHAEL EURY takes you through that coolest cultural phenomenon with this all-new collection of nostalgic essays, histories, and theme song lyrics of classic 1960s characters like CAPTAIN ACTION, HERBIE THE FAT FURY, CAPTAIN NICE, ATOM ANT, SCOOTER, ACG’s NEMESIS, DELL’S SUPER-FRANKENSTEIN and DRACULA, the “Split!” CAPTAIN MARVEL, and others! Featuring interviews with BILL MUMY (Lost in Space), BOB HOLIDAY (It’s a Bird … It’s a Plane … It’s Superman), RALPH BAKSHI (The Mighty Heroes, SpiderMan), DEAN TORRENCE (Jan and Dean Meet Batman), RAMONA FRADON (Metamorpho), DICK DeBARTOLO (Captain Klutz), TONY TALLARICO (The Great Society Comic Book), VINCE GARGIULO (Palisades Park historian), JOE SINNOTT (The Beatles comic book), JOSE DELBO (The Monkees comic book), and many more!

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Sculpting Red Cheese Artist RUBÉN PROCOPIO On Turning 2-D Into 3-D by P.C. Hamerlinck

ubén Procopio (maskedavenger.com) has been in the animation industry for over 25 years. His creative skills were taught to him by his father Adolfo, and he went on to receive scholarships to both CalArts and Art Center. Arriving at Disney Animation, Rubén trained under Eric Larson, one of Disney’s legendary “nine old men,” and began a career working in multiple creative roles on over a dozen Disney animated features, including The Little Mermaid, Beauty & the Beast, Tarzan, Mulan, and The Lion King. Rubén’s versatile skills include sculpture, character design, animation, and illustration. Ruben recently sculpted DC Direct’s impressive Power of Shazam! Deluxe Statue (based on a design by Jerry Ordway), depicting the transformation of young Billy Batson into the World’s Mightiest Mortal. —PCH. Ruben Procopio is a masked avenger with multiple identities: illustrator, designer, animator, and sculptor.

Born in Buenos Aires, Argentina, Procopio came to America with his Italian immigrant parents in the mid-1960s when he was four years old; the family soon moved to Burbank California, their stomping grounds ever since. “My dad is a sculptor and worked for Disney Imagineering for over 35 years,” says Procopio, “and my mom worked in the fashion industry, so I grew up around two very creative people. With all that inspiration around me, I naturally wanted to be an artist.” Television played its influential role upon the impressionistic youngster, especially the Hanna-Barbera adventure cartoons (Space Ghost, Super Friends, and Johnny Quest) and heroic live-action shows like Batman, The Lone Ranger, and Shazam! with Jackson Bostwick as Captain Marvel. Comic book-wise, Procopio was primarily a “DC kid,” who later would also grow to appreciate the Marvel universe. His favorite artists were Adams, Aparo, Cardy, Buscema, Romita, Kirby, Kane, Kubert, and later, Garcia-Lopez. His father saw his son’s interest in comics and drawing and started guiding him at a young age. “I was copying comics,” Procopio recalled, “then my dad introduced me to the foundations of art, like anatomy, design, perspective, and painting. He

My Fan Club Is Bigger Than Your Fan Club (Above:) Sketch of the Big Red Cheese and the Little Black Mouse by Rubén Procopio drawn especially for the Hamerlinck family. [Captain Marvel TM & ©2006 DC Comics; Mickey Mouse TM, ®, & ©2006 Disney.] (Left:) Photos of Rubén at age seven, reading comics before bedtime—and Procopio the pro today, working in his Masked Avenger Studios. With thanks to the artist.

would leave me assignments before he left for work in the morning: for example, a note in an anatomy book saying, “Today you’re going to learn about the arm, and how all the muscles interact and work.” Later, when he would come home, he would review with me what I did. I look back now and realize how fortunate I was. He did that with languages as well, so you can imagine I had a lot of homework!” One day while rummaging through piles at an old bookstore, Procopio came across a folder full of Hanna-Barbera animation model sheets. “The drawings seemed to sing off the pages,” he remembered. “They had emotion and feeling to them. I was hooked!” He looked down to see the signature on the drawings: ALEX TOTH. Years later he learned that Toth lived close by to him, and he began corresponding with the legendary artist. “One thing led to another, and today we’ve become very good friends,” Procopio says. Alex introduced me to all his influences: Sickles, Caniff, Raymond, Foster .…” Besides teaching him about classic comic artists, Procopio’s father in turn introduced his son to all the sculpting marvels of the past. Then,

Sculpting Red Cheese

81 Mulan—No Foolin’

adding to an already eclectic mix, his father gave him the anatomy series by Burne Hogarth. Soon thereafter, an interest to work in animation was ignited during one night at the movies. “As a Disney employee, my dad used to get family night tickets to view the latest films,” Procopio remembers. “On one particular evening we went to see Robin Hood. I couldn’t believe my eyes when I saw Robin Hood and Little John walking through the forest. I wondered, ‘How do they do that? Are there people under those drawings?’ I didn’t get it, but I knew that it was something I wanted to do.” At the age of 12 Procopio won a drawing contest which had appeared in the local Burbank paper. The head of Disney Animation at the time was a person named (believe it or not!) Don Duckwald, who had read the article about the contest and called to invite the Procopio family for a tour of the animation department. “I was amazed,” Procopio remembered. “I could not believe that grown men could make a living drawing and doing animation!” Years later Procopio obtained a scholarship to Cal Arts, then, at 18, started working at Disney after one semester … and stayed there for the next 25 years.

“While at Disney, I was fortunate to do many things,” Procopio said. “I’ve designed characters, storyboarded, done layout work book, animated, sculpted, and supervised the ‘clean up’ department for movies like Mulan.” (“Clean up” is the phase where artists go over the animator’s rough drawings, which then become the final drawings that end up on the screen.) Procopio even worked briefly on the Ruby-Spears Plastic Man cartoon in the ’70s. “It was my first job in animation,” Procopio said, “and it was fascinating to see a fairly small animation studio at work. The office I sat in was actually right outside of Joe Ruby and Ken Spears’ office, and it was always exciting to see and hear all the buzz going around their offices.” With such a wide range of skills—from illustration and design to animation and sculpture—does the artist have a preferred medium to work in, or do they often all mesh together? “They complement each other,” Procopio believes. “I always encourage 2-D artists to sculpt, and vice versa. I tell them they’ll see their drawings in a whole new light, and they’ll look more dimensional afterwards. When sculpting, I think of elements of design and drawing principles like silhouettes, line of action, and so on. They are both equal to me, and I do as much drawing before starting a sculpture as I do when I draw, thinking in dimension and space. When I’m drawing I like to actually visualize what’s going on behind and around the character. When I sculpt I look at it as a flat Countdown To Zorro drawing from all the angles, so that if you were (Left:) Zorro sketch by Procopio, with a nice to take a picture from any Alex Toth influence. view, it would work and (Right:) Procopio’s Zorro sculpture. look like a drawing. Since I [©2006 the respective copyright holders.] am able to dabble in both, I can divide my work day and spend about as much time drawing as I do sculpting on any given project.” Q: What’s over 16 inches tall, has a “light-up” lightning bolt, and a thunder sound button? A: The recently-released Power of Shazam! deluxe hand-painted, cold-cast porcelain statue, sculpted by Procopio. “The assignment was given to me by then art director of DC Direct Ed Bolkus,” Procopio said. “We had talked about the idea for about a year before I even started

Rubén Procopio On Turning 2- D Into 3- D

The Big Gray Cheese (Left:) Jerry Ordway’s design for a statue of Billy Batson changing into Captain Marvel. Note the alterations the concept underwent as Rubén turned it into an actual statue. (Above:) A shot (before color was painted on) of the new DC Direct Deluxe Shazam! statue sculpted by Ruben Procopio. Of course, even if it was painted, we’d still be presenting it in glorious black-&-white, wouldn’t we? [Captain Marvel & Billy Batson ©2006 DC Comics.]

Sculpting Red Cheese

Shazam! Statues Of Earths-T, -U, -V, Etc., Etc., Etc. Rubén Procopio drew a zillion (give or take a quadrillion) preliminary sketches for a possible Shazam! statue himself, as seen in this full page of designs. Get our your magnifying glasses and enjoy! [Captain Marvel & Billy Batson ©2006 DC Comics.]

Rubén Procopio On Turning 2- D Into 3- D of which we chose.” Was Procopio already a Cap-fan before sculpting the Big Red Cheese? “Yes!” he resoundingly replied. “I really admired C.C. Beck’s drawings … so simple, yet all there; so cartoony … yet very classy. I can’t remember which I saw first, the Shazam! TV show or the comic book, but I was an instant fan. The costume … the colors … the stories … all wonderful. I still have the oversized Shazam! comic with Jackson Bostwick on the cover. The Saturday morning TV show was wonderful … they were simple little stories with a nice message. What kid wouldn’t want to yell like Billy Batson and become a super-hero? What a fantastic concept. I had the pleasure to meet Jackson in Chicago several years ago, and we talked about doing a sculpture of him. I already started something that I hope to finish one day. An Isis sculpt would be great, too.” Do any “dream projects” still remain for an artist who has already accomplished so much? “I’ve been lucky because so many have already been realized,” Procopio said, “but I’d say sculptures of The Shadow and Doc Savage are on my wish list … along with having a chance to do my take on a Batman comic, or Shazam! for that matter!

sculpting it. I had heard that Jerry Ordway had done a sketch of it but didn’t see it until later on. I was thrilled because I’m a big fan of Jerry’s work. During that year I would come up with pose ideas and sketches for possibilities for the sculpt. In the end, I finally received Jerry’s great sketch, and that’s the concept we went with. Hearing that they wanted to put in a sound chip and have it light up, I suggested we make the base a little bigger and add a relief of the gods that make up the name “SHAZAM” around the base, or of the Seven Deadly Sins … the latter

C.C. Beck Would Be Proud Just for fun, Rubén created this mini-bust of the classic Golden Age version of the World’s Mightiest Mortal— after he lost the “Student Prince” flap on his shirt. [Captain Marvel TM & ©2006 DC Comics.]

BRAZILIAN BONUS: Two more pages from the 1964 Almanaque do O Globo Juvenil. The comics of Brazil printed new stories of Captain Marvel and family for years after Fawcett’s cancellation of its comics line in 1953. In this extraordinary tale, Cap meets the original Human Torch—yeah, Carl Burgos’ android—since the adventures of the two heroes had been published by the same company in Brazil, though not in the US. On this page the Big Red Cheese continues his battle with The Cobra. [Captain Marvel TM & ©2006 DC Comics.]

“Captain Marvel Meets The Human Torch” (Continued) 85

On this page, the Torch recovers in a hospital bed after being rescued from The Cobra’s clutches by Cap. Of course, by this time, in the USA, the Johnny Storm version of The Human Torch had been appearing in Fantastic Four for three years—and it would be two more years before Burgos’ hero would return in the 1966 F.F. Annual. Thanks to John G. Pierce for finding this classic, which has been translated from the Portuguese by Mark Luebker. The 1964 art is by Rodriguez Zelis, with modern-day art reconstruction and lettering for this issue by John Gentil. With special thanks to Rodrigo M. Zeidan and Matt Gore. [Captain Marvel TM & ©2006 DC Comics; Human Torch TM & ©2006 Marvel Characters, Inc.]

86 “Captain Marvel Meets The Human Torch”

[Next Issue: The exciting climax!.]